Posted by
samzenpus
on from the super-soldier dept.
Trokair writes "China Daily reports that researcher Tuofu Zhu has discovered two women in an HIV Research program that are immune to the disorder via a mutant gene."
I think that the existance of this mutation has been known for some time. The key is that it was only thought to exist in the caucasian population until now.
-- Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
Re:Immune
by
lucabrasi999
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· Score: 4, Informative
From the article
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races,"said Zhu.
Sounds like some mutant genes have been found previously, so I am not sure if this will add any new information to the fight against AIDS.
China is now at a key moment in adopting effective measures to control and prevent HIV/AIDS as the disease moves from high risk populations to the general population, in most cases though sexual transmission, Zhu pointed out.
China had better be prepared for a potential disaster. Even if the presense of this "mutant" gene does lead to some sort of cure, it will probably take years to develop and test. In the meantime, China, along with most Middle Eastern and Asian countries, has a high risk of having an AIDS related disaster of a scope way beyond what we now see in Africa. We're talking tens of millions of people infected and/or dying all across the Middle East and Asia.
China, along with most Middle Eastern and Asian countries, has a high risk of having an AIDS related disaster of a scope way beyond what we now see in Africa
Not being a racist troll here, but from my experience, culturally Asians seem to be a lot less promiscuous, which would imply that this disaster doesn't seem so imminent.
-- Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Re:Immune
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Informative
...There is already an AIDS crisis in China at this moment. Except that the Provincial Government of Henan has been trying to keep it's dirty little secret, well, secret.
Not being a racist troll here, but from my experience, culturally Asians seem to be a lot less promiscuous, which would imply that this disaster doesn't seem so imminent.
This is not true, Keep in mind the vector that spreads aids is sex 1 guy gets it from the side, has sex with his wife and maybe a little more on the side and four people are infected.
As for Asian culture's its no more or less sexual than American culture some are more strict than others. Until after the Korean war it was quite common for men to keep second families, even now many still do despite modern stigmas..
Actually, it has been known about for a while in caucsians... It seems that people that survived the black plague who produced offspring, in some cases, provided them with a sort of immunity to AIDS/HIV in which allowed them to live with the virus. Thats about all I know without referencing anything.
muhahhahahhahaha Prostitution in China is much more rampant than it is in the west. Promiscuous sex, somewhat lower, but trust me it does exist, as one of my friends told me, Every one of her friends has had an abortion.
-- metalgeek
windows, just another pane in the glass
I am not sure if this has been discredited yet, but I once heard that the reason apes are immune to AIDS is that they were wiped out by a similar disease and the surviving descendants are from the immune apes. This is reason I believe some areas heavily impacted by AIDS will develop a resistance to it over generations.
-- Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Re:Immune
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
Until after the Korean war it was quite common for men to keep second families
That would be correct. The immunity has been known of for a few years. I'm sort of disappointed the article didn't make that clearer, or explain how it works at all.
My biology teacher covered it as part of our lesson on HIV, about 3 years ago. Basically, it has to do with the structure of their white blood cells. Specifically, they lack the CCR-5 protein for the virus to latch on to. The best part is that people can function just fine without this protein, so there don't appear to be any ill effects. The trick now is figuring out how to confer the immunity on those not born with it.
A simple search for "ccr-5" will give a whole bunch of articles for anyone who's interested.
And besides, I wonder if you've noticed that there are a billion Chinese, and near that many Indians?
Not really being serious, but sort of.
Re:Immune
by
Stephen+H-B
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· Score: 4, Informative
I may be wrong about this, but I remember reading/hearing that many of these 'immune' women were just asymptomatic carriers. That meant they were still infected with HIV and infectious but didn't themselves develop AIDS.
-- Sick of WoW? Try the thinking man's MMORPG: EVE Online
Re:Immune
by
BuD-TheDude
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· Score: 5, Informative
Very true, but keep in mind that this was not true immunity.
The original ~10 prostitutes found immune were then taken away from their constant exposure to HIV and some were put on antiretrovirlas. It was only after this removal that they began to progress to AIDS. There are several ways in which our body can outmaneuver HIV. This adaptive immune response is remarkable though I feel that the protein APOBEC3G is also worth mentioning.
APOBEC3G is an intracellular antiretoviral protein that "interferes with the replication of HIV by incorporating itself into virus particles and damaging the genetic material of the virus. The viral protein Vif can halt this process in two ways". Vif is one of atleast 15 proteins found in HIV's 9 definitive genes. For an interesting read:
http://www.retrovirology.com/content/1/1/28
My wife is in the middle of a hard pregnancy, she jokes and says no more kids from her but I can have a second wife. Seemed apealing for about half a second...
so explain how they ended up with such large populations in china, india and even japan. Japan has 3x the population of Canada and they live on a tiny island
This is not news. There is a small but significant population in Africa that is immune to AIDS despite having HIV. They can pass along the infection to those who are not immune, but they themselves are completely unaffected. Last I heard, they're estimating this population in the most infected areas of Africa to hover around 0.5%.
We've known about these people since the 80s. This is not news. If someone figures out how to flip that gene in regular people so everyone's immune, then we're talking...give it/. real estate. Short of that...not interested.
-- but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
I may be wrong about this, but I remember reading/hearing that many of these 'immune' women were just asymptomatic carriers.
Here is an article about. It that says they actually couldn't get infected. However, their immunity depended on their consistent practice as prostitutes and constant exposure to the virus. If they stopped for a while then were exposed to it again, they lost the immunity.
Re:Immune
by
Thomas+Miconi
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Not being a racist troll here, but from my experience, culturally Asians seem to be a lot less promiscuous,
But you're talking about an exponential process. If everybody has unprotected sex with n persons while being infected, as soon as n > 1, the actual value of n matters very little: the disease will spread with catastrophic speed. It might take more time to infect the whole population, but not that much.
As an example, if in one case the process spreads with multiplicative factor n1 = 2, and in the other n2 = 8, then it will only take 3 times as long for the first process to infect as many people. If n1 = 2 and n2 = 16, it will be 4 times as long.
The ratio between total infection times is equal to the ratio of the logs of the two multiplicative factors. You can check by yourself, it's just basic logarithm / exponent manipulation.
Of course in this simplistic analysis we ignore repetitions (people already infected do not contribute to any further increase in infections). But these effects become significant only when a sizeable proportion of the population is infected, so essentially if one population is small and the other is large, the disease will spread faster, for a longer time, in the second one.
Oh, btw, remember that in the case of India and China put together, we are talking about one third of mankind.
But there is an even more depressing aspect of AIDS. With AIDS, abstinence is only a protection if it is absolute. There are some populations in which such a thing exists. Most of the time it is enforced by scaringly oppressive traditions / religions / customs. In other words, when AIDS becomes widespread enough to have a significant impact on the population, it turns obscurantism into a Darwinian advantage.
With this they probably could make a vaccine or genetically engineer a "virus" that could prevent AIDS*The disorder caused by the HIV virus*
I think that the existance of this mutation has been known for some time. The key is that it was only thought to exist in the caucasian population until now.
Oh that makes sense. No sense developing a vaccine if caucasians are already immune.
Well first of all, you don't need to have sex to spread the disease, that is only the most common mode of transmission in our modern world. In other areas where health care is not as advanced (like in many parts of China), dirty needles can do a lot to spread the disease.
Also, what is your experience with Asian culture? Asian Americans who have immigrated here in the past couple of decades? They will not provide a representative sample of the Chinese (note Asian != Chinese, there a number of other nations on the world's largest continent) population as a whole.
-- Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Yeah, I read somewhere that they had actually contracted a different strain of HIV, HIV-2 it was called. It was still infectious, but it prevented HIV-1 from infecting them and developing into fullblown AIDS. Kind of like an HIV vaccine against HIV.
The HIV/AIDS problem isn't as sex related in chinaas other parts of the world. It's more related to blood plasma donationas and crooked/greedy local government types.
Except that many "white" people aren't Caucasians, i.e. decendent from the folks who settled in the Caucases Mountains. They are simply melanin-deprived mutts. (Ok to pick on my own gang.)
-- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
If this is really how you feel, and not just a troll, then I'd say you have to overcome your background. I say that because people like you never get their ideas from empirical evidence, reality, facts, careful, well thought-out analysis. They get it from prejudice passed on from others, usually parents.
If you really do look into the matter, you'll figure out that the trajectory of developing civilizations are more or less fixed by availability of natural resources. Read Guns, Germs, and Steel. Hell, read anything and you'll be better off.
-- but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Nothing is more powerful in the human brain than the ability to make connections between things that aren't actually connected. This ability works extremely well when we realize the connections are simply an analogy to help us understand something, such as the connection between e-mail and regular mail, which are two completely different things and in no real sense related. This ability works against us in cases such as yours, though.
Your argument concerning natural resources is valid, up to a point at least. But it certainly isn't enough to explain why Europe survives decades of wars and the black plague *relatively* unharmed (from a historic point of view), while Africa never recovers and just starts new wars.
In the book I suggested you read, Jared Diamond argues that civilizations have developed as they have exclusively due to their immediate environment and the natural resources of that environment. At different points in the development of a particular civilization, different environment and natural resources are required to allow that population to stay on its same trajectory.
For instance, Mesopotamia served as the cradle of civilization because the natural resources present in that area required very little already-existing technology to support an agrarian community; it was fertile land and the region had animals which could be domesticated to work the land. Living in proximity with domesticated animals was the source of non-nomadic people's increased immunity, and this eventually leads to the answer to your question about how Europe was able to recover from the Black Plague. It also explains why Europeans were easily able to conquer the native North American people, who had no such immunities. The following tidbit of history seems to fly in the face of your theory: it was indeed non-white people that began civilization, and would hold on to that cultural and societal dominance for thousands of years.
While you're at it, please explain why European settlers changed North America in less than a hundred years from a country only sustaining a few thousand tribesmen into the global economic leader.
Well, I don't have a calculator handy, but I'm pretty sure I can do this in my head. North America was settled by Europeans around 1600 (some, I'll point out, by the definition I think you're using, non-white, such as the Spanish). The US didn't emerge as a global superpower until around World War I, the 1910s. That's roughly 300 years, not 100, and much of the success of the US in pulling this off has to do with the labor performed by black African slaves and others that were imported and more or less treated as property (such as the Chinese that built our railroads in the mid-19th Century).
As I mentioned above, though, the main thrust of this achievement is due to the right-place/right-time effect enjoyed by the earliest Europeans that settled the Americas. They had already achieved the technology in Europe necessary to exploit the natural resources of the New World which remained unavailable to its native people. There was a certain hump that had to be overcome technologically before this continent would give up its wares, and whites would not have been more successful if they'd been confined to North America their entire history.
And then why the white population of any state is directly proportional to average wealth, while non-white population is directly proportional to more crimes and less education.
This is directly due to the unique history of the United States. You are observing a particular statistic and inferring a causal relationship where there is none; there is only a correlation here. For instance, I might say that shoe size is a direct indicator of intelligence for the general population, and that is supported by statistics. But this does not mean that it would be sensible for me to conclude that men, having larger feet, are generally smarter than women
-- but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Lucky ladies!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
Now they can mess around all they want, au natural, and not worry about dying!
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Now they can mess around all they want, au natural, and not worry about dying!
Except from all the other potentially fatal STDs you can catch.
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Mr.Sharpy
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Now they can mess around all they want, au natural, and not worry about dying!
Indeed! Now all they have to worry about is... Gohnorrea Herpes Chlamydia Syphillis Ge nital Warts HPV Hepatitus Trichomoniasis and more! Lucky bitches...
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Unfortunately, there's still this particular virus called "pregnancy" that continues to cause abrupt stoppage of sex when performed au natural.
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
lucabrasi999
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· Score: 5, Informative
there's still this particular virus called "pregnancy" that continues to cause abrupt stoppage of sex when performed au natural.
Trust me, that abrupt "stoppage" usually lasts much, much longer than nine months...
abrupt "stoppage" usually lasts much, much longer than nine months...
Yup. Unfortunately, I can verify that.
--
bash: rtfm: command not found
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Lord+Kano
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· Score: 4, Informative
Indeed! Now all they have to worry about is... Gohnorrea Herpes Chlamydia Syphillis Ge nital Warts HPV Hepatitus Trichomoniasis and more! Lucky bitches...
In order....
Curable. Nasty stuff, but not fatal. Curable. Curable. Nasty stuff, once again not fatal. Nasty stuff, not fatal unless it causes cancer. Possibly fatal. Nasty stuff, but curable.
HIV is the queen mother of STDs, once that is out of the way, there will be a lot more au naturale love happening in the world.
LK
-- "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I think it would be totally awesome if some kind of imaginary god did try and punish it's creation through the use of a cruel, life destroying virus - only to have his divine will deflected by something so simple as a tiny thicknesses of latex, education, testing and screening, as well as the hard work of doctors and scientists around the globe.
Would me wonder who should be quaking in fear from who.
In my experience, a related condition, "marriage", seems to have a similar effect in reducing the frequency of sexual activity. So much so, in fact, that I begin to believe that those who oppose homosexual activity would be well served to endorse gay marriage as a preventative measure.
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Sponge+Bath
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· Score: 4, Funny
I think it would be totally awesome if some kind of imaginary god did try and punish it's creation through the use of a cruel, life destroying virus - only to have his divine will deflected by something so simple as a tiny thicknesses of latex, education, testing and screening, as well as the hard work of doctors and scientists around the globe.
Would me wonder who should be quaking in fear from who.
I agree with soporific. The story is good: good ideas, interesting plot, and a pointed ending. Oh, and the writing is nice, too. Thanks for sharing it. I had read some of Greg Egan's novels, but short stories get to be much more pointed (and thus generally better) than novels.
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3, Funny
Trust me, that abrupt "stoppage" usually lasts much, much longer than nine months...
You know this is slashdot when a post like this is marked "Informative."
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
dustinbarbour
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Why is it that politics MUST make its way into every single article on this site? Talk about annoying..
Someday all of these will be a thing of the past, and nobody will be able to get anything by having sex. Then the uptight puritanical types won't be able to gloat over STDs as a sign of 'moral corruption', and I'll be able to laugh in their priggish, outraged faces while they stumble around looking for a better justification for abstinence other than "my god doesn't like it!"
Can't wait for the day.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
or how about getting rid of marriage all together and stop forcing men to adhere to one partner, against their nature, just to appease some peasant religion?
You have to get like extra karma for comparing the Bush administration to Trichomoniasis.
--
forget it.
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
Reene
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· Score: 3, Informative
To be picky for a moment..
Syphilis can be fatal and often was (eventually) before treatments for it were developed. If it isn't caught in its first stage it is no longer completely curable and will slowly progress to the brain, the tissue of which it gradually destroys over time.
You basically get to lose your mind (literally and figuratively) before you die. It's not a good way to go.
Then again, ever since being unknowingly exposed to (seriously) almost every single STD on that list including HIV due to a cheating spouse (who knew the other woman was infected) I've got very little pity for the people who go around fucking whomever despite knowing the risks.
Vectors of disease that knowingly spread these diseases (this goes double for ones like HIV) deserve to be shot. But maybe I'm a little too biased to be speaking on the matter, and now I've strayed off-topic...
-- "He does look a bit Oompa like, even if his Loompa is a bit off-kilter."
(speaking about America and other such countries here)
People have the knowledge- even in middle school we're taught about the dangers of sex and contracting STDs like HIV. People have the measures to prevent it- condoms are not hard to find, for free to boot, and despite what anyone may say it is not difficult to simply say no. There are programs, both for getting tested for free and examined for free.
And yet HIV is still being spread among people, rather well I may add, in these so-called enlightened countries, despite the knowledge being there as well as the means to protect themselves.
My theory is that if there is a God he's just killing off the stupid (exceptional circumstances aside). One can only hope.
-- "He does look a bit Oompa like, even if his Loompa is a bit off-kilter."
Would me wonder who should be quaking in fear from who.
Well, your rubber doesn't protect against lightning, falling shuttle debris, or a drunk-driving Mack truck.
PS: Let me know when you're in my town so I can go on vacation. I don't wanna get caught in a nuclear melt-down or similar catastrophe just because you're challenging God with your condom (I just got a disturbing image in my head and I have to leave now).
My wife must be immune from that virus. once the time period where 'you might die from an emballism if you do' was over it was back to the nightly fun.
--
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Then again, ever since being unknowingly exposed to (seriously) almost every single STD on that list including HIV due to a cheating spouse (who knew the other woman was infected) I've got very little pity for the people who go around fucking whomever despite knowing the risks
He KNEW she had HIV? WTF was his problem?
LK
-- "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:Lucky ladies!
by
sexylicious
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· Score: 2, Informative
Herpes isn't curable. It's treatable, but not curable.
And as another poster pointed out, syphillis can kill. And it's not a particularly fun way to go.
HIV is the queen mother of STDs, once that is out of the way, there will be a lot more au naturale love happening in the world.
You forgot to mention that using a condom will not fully protect from some of the incurables mentioned. Pretty much all of them were around during the time of "free love" and no one cared. If you were expressing natural love with lots of unknown partners, you just got a test every once in a while and had them cure what they could. If they couldn't cure it, it couldn't kill you.
AIDS is the only one that is truely feared. It is the only one that can kill you if you diagnose it immediately. It is the one that has all the emergency professionals constantly on guard. Sure, some think about hepatitus every once in a while, but AIDS is the biggie, by far.
Of course it will be difficult coming up with cool nicknames for them, maybe "syringe" and "transfusion".
Re:Someone call...
by
identity0
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· Score: 5, Funny
Great, two hot Chinese women whose 'superpowers' are that they can fuck anyone and inject any needle without being harmed. I guess it was about time X-Men went hentai and became XXX-Men.
I'm imagining them in the leather bodysuits from the movies, but crotchless and with a opening at the elbows for shooting up. Their arch-nemesis shall be Donkey Boy and Heroin Girl.
Oh god, what kind of pathetic geek am I? I just turned an important piece of AIDS research that could help millions into a bad porno comic joke... I will log off before I embarrass myself further.
If you need me, I will be in my bedroom, masturbating...
Oh, well, in fact, they can't fuck anyone, as there are other diseases than just AIDS. A prominent example is the composer of the song "Guantanamera", who died of syphilis a few days after he finished writing the song.
Cons : If you see a giant flying robot yelling "Mutant gene identified", run like hell.
mirrored...
by
boisepunk
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· Score: 3, Informative
Two women found with HIV-immune mutant gene Wang Zhuoqiong 2004-10-01 05:17
SHENZHEN: Two women have been identified as carrying a mutant gene that is immune to HIV/AIDS, the first such cases uncovered in China, a researcher said.
The finding is the joint effort of a research programme, "Association of Human Genetic Polymorphisms with HIV Affections," jointly conducted by the University of Washington in the US State of Washington and local Infectious Disease Hospitals and medical institutions in Guangdong Province.
Tuofu Zhu, associate professor of University of Washington and associate director of the Clinical Core at the Centre for AIDS Research (CFAR), introduced the programme to China a year ago as a part of his global research in nations in Europe, the Americas, Africa and Asia.
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races,"said Zhu.
China is now at a key moment in adopting effective measures to control and prevent HIV/AIDS as the disease moves from high risk populations to the general population, in most cases though sexual transmission, Zhu pointed out.
Zhu said that setting up a research centre in Guangdong Province is appropriate as its population has made it the best platform for collecting diversified samples.
"With the largest mobile population in China, we can get samples from migrants who are from other parts of the country," said Zhu.
Since a greater number of patients infected with sexual transmitted disease in particular are reported in Guangdong Province, sample collections are more efficient than other regions in China, Zhu added.
So far, according to Zhu, his programme in Shenzhen has identified 11 Exposed Seronegatives (ES) since January.
Zhu explained that the immune systems of some individuals may be capable of resisting HIV infection. These individuals who do not appear to be infected with HIV despite multiple sexual encounters with HIV infected partners are referred to as exposed seronegatives (ES).
To be specific, any one who has conducted sexual activities at least twice weekly in four consecutive months with an HIV-infected partner might be identified as ES.
Of 11 ES cases, two cases have later been identified as carrying the mutant genes.
In Zhu's opinion, if medicine functioning similarly with the genes was put in the vagina and rectum, the HIV virus couldn't find its carrier to enter the human body and thus would be expelled.
In Shenzhen, both confirmed samples are women who have been exposed to HIV for many years but remained uninfected.
One of them, in her 40s, has kept a regular sexual life with her husband without any protection measures for nine years. Her husband, who was infected with the deadly virus by blood transfusion in 1994, was hospitalized in Shenzhen's Donghu Hospital in July last year.
However, due to the limited qualified samples, Zhu said it is still too early to draw any conclusion from the programme, adding "we definitely need more support from the local hospital, medical institutions and government to collect more data from ES people."
This still doesn't explain while some african prostitutes seem totally immune to HIV.
I saw a report on this a while ago. These specific women work in a town where a fairly large percentage of the population is infected. Yet, for some reason, these prostitutes have yet to contract the desease despite multiple exposures daily.
And to think some mutant gene would only have been present in caucasian is somewhat ludicrous. Unless it was related to the nose bone or something... sheesh.
And to think some mutant gene would only have been present in caucasian is somewhat ludicrous.
There are a number of genes which are limited to certain ethnic groups. It isn't ludicrous to think that an immunity to AIDS would be limited to caucasians, without evidence to the contrary.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
That's not quite right. It wouldn't be ludicrous to think that immunity is expressed in equal amounts across all of humanity unless we had evidence to the contrary.
What about sickle-cell...doesn't that only affect blacks? Yes, in larger numbers--but it's not related to the genes that make these people dark-skinned. It's related to the genes that give those populations increased resistance to malaria. Dark skin gives resistance to harsh sun, harsh sun is correlated with tropical climates, tropical climates have mosquitos the size of your little finger carrying malaria...that's the chain of correlation, but there's no causal link here. If northern white populations had been exposed to malaria in high amounts over many years, then sickle cell would have developed in those populations all the same. Similarly, if white populations moved to a tropical climate, they'd get darker skinned over many generations.
Let's not confuse expression of genes with presence/absence of those genes. Just because I don't have dark skin doesn't mean I don't carry the gene for it. We all do, or the near-step mutation that would result in it. Same with disease resistance.
-- but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Unfortunately, the children would have to be homozygous for the allele in question to benefit much from it.
Re:If they were male
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sjames
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Unfortunately, the children would have to be homozygous for the allele in question to benefit much from it.
Not necessarily. If inherited from only one parent, they may be fully immune, resistant but not immune, or may have no benefit.
In some cases, carrying the trait is better than fully expressing it. This is the case for sickle cell anemia. Carrying the trait confers resistance to maleria. Fully expressing it is,of course, a bad thing. This is thought to explain the prevalance of sickle cell anemia amongst people in areas where maleria exists. Perhaps the evolutionary advantage of the maleria resistance outweighs the increased chance of having children with sickle cell.
Spontaneous mutation?
by
dzym
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· Score: 2, Interesting
How much reliability is in this discovery? Is it being independently verified? Is China once again reporting something falsified as part of their inferiority complex?
On the other hand, if this is for real, how much chance is there for this gene replicating? Human evolution may be happening in front of our very eyes!
Are there any known negative effects from this mutation? I'm envisaging something like sickle cell anemia here.
Re:Spontaneous mutation?
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allism
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· Score: 5, Interesting
About ten years ago, I did volunteer work for an HIV-testing clinic. I met two men while I was there who were convinced that they were both HIV-immune. One had been very sexually active during the late 70s and early 80s and had had most of his friends and sexual partners die of AIDS-related causes, and the other had repeatedly had sex with multiple HIV-positive partners out of survivors guilt. Talk was just beginning around then of people who seemed to be immune to HIV.
It's not something I'd especially want to gamble on, though - HIV mutates nearly every time it infects, and at some point I think these people who are now immune won't be immune any longer.
>Are there any known negative >effects from this mutation?
Well, unless you mean by "negative" that you can't die of the Black Death.
People forget that aside from killing a third of Europe's population, it also wiped out two thirds of all Mongolians (where some suggest the plague began), and a whole lot of their southern Chinese neighbors as well.
So, if the proposed link between genetic immunity to the bubonic plague -- which 5% of European descended stock still possess, supposedly -- and full or partial (carrier only) immunity to HIV is scientifically valid, it would be of little surprise there would be similar immunities in the Far East -- especially near a port city where the plague was mosy prevalent.
-- "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick
Re:Spontaneous mutation?
by
spinlocked
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· Score: 2, Informative
If you believe in that sort of thing. The theory seems to be that it prevents the virus from binding in the first place. It has no chance to mutate, within the host at least.
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races,"said Zhu.
This gene is not something that is being reported as being only found in China and only by the Chinese.
Also the article states elsewhere:
The finding is the joint effort of a research programme, "Association of Human Genetic Polymorphisms with HIV Affections," jointly conducted by the University of Washington in the US State of Washington and local Infectious Disease Hospitals and medical institutions in Guangdong Province.
So you can see from that, we (as in the US) have their own group of researchers involved with the project.
Re:Spontaneous mutation?
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fimbulvetr
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Just because something changes doesn't mean it's for the best and therefore it doesn't mean it is even remotely due to evolution.
You really are a twit!
Think about the logic...here, I'll help.
Change (mutation) in person A. Person A is now immune to Disease B. Person A can't be infected by the disease. This is good!
Wow, imagine that! It changed for the good!
Now...
Change (mutation) in person C. Person C is now a huge risk for Disease D, gets Disease D. Person C dies of Disease D. The changes are not passed on... (This is the opposite of bad, or in other words: good) Wow! ANOTHER `change` for the good!
This was a generalized version.
It takes us millions of years to develop frontal lobes, because there are millions of changes. Every single one of us has a mutation of some type, it's just that some of the mutations don't manifest themselves.
Now, ideally, you understood this. If you didn't, good luck with the rest of your life.
you seem to forget that evolution is simply change.
So if a change has happened, something has evolved. Whether or not you agree that Hunanity evolved from single celled organisms billions of years ago, you cannot deny that evolution itself happens.
That's rather oversimplified. Some mutations have good and bad sides - sickle cell anaemia, for example; others will kill after 20 years, by which time you can quite easily have four or five children - moderate forms of Marfan's syndrome, for example.
It can take ten years or more for someone with HIV to become symptomatic - but an HIV antibody test will still show infection.
One of the guys I mentioned above had even had a viral load test done, and it came up negative too. He definitely was not infected.
(A viral load test measures actual amounts of the HIV virus in the blood. The standard HIV test looks for antibodies in the blood, which is why it can take up to six months after infection for someone to test positive.)
Genetics at work?
by
enforcer999
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Well, we are a very capable species. We will not die off easily. Aids/HIV are dangerous and deadly to us. It was just a matter of time before our own bodies figured out how to survive this virus. We have a good package to work with.
Just my first thoughts on the subject. I would like to know more about the study.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
jm92956n
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· Score: 4, Interesting
It was just a matter of time before our own bodies figured out how to survive this virus.
I don't think that's exactly the case. HIV is only twenty-five years old, which certainly isn't enough time for genetic evolution to take place (especially considering the relatively slow reporductive rate of humans).
It's more likely they've an odd mutant gene that by coincadence makes them immune to the virus.
-- An effective signature identifies a particular user amongst a base of thousands.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
That is the first part of evolution. The next part is where everybody without this gene dies off. Then nobody can get AIDS, since they all have the gene. I propose we skip evolution this time and let science deal with it.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
ashridah
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· Score: 4, Informative
"I don't think that's exactly the case. HIV is only twenty-five years old, which certainly isn't enough time for genetic evolution to take place (especially considering the relatively slow reporductive rate of humans)."
HIV is most certainly NOT only 25 years old. It's extremely old, they have preserved tissue samples from almost 50 years ago or so that have been found to contain the virus (the subject died in exactly the same way as the first cases presented here) (an english sailor died of a oppertunistic diseases, and after he died, tissue was preserved for later study.)
The event that has made HIV into a new epidemic is massive changes in social morality. Originally, HIV was called the Gay-Related immuno-deficiency syndrome or somesuch, because it was primarily affecting people who were outwardly gay.
Of course, it turned out that these people were just starting to be very broad in their choice of partners, and of course, people were starting to share needles for drug use.
ashridah
Re:Genetics at work?
by
jcr
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· Score: 2, Informative
HIV is only twenty-five years old,
Well, that's not clear. The virus may have existed in simian hosts for a very long time, and may also have been contracted by humans many times before but not become epidemic. It takes more than contagion and virulence to make an epidemic.
-jcr
-- The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Raul654
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· Score: 4, Informative
HIV is only twenty-five years old, which certainly isn't enough time for genetic evolution to take place.
Mutations happen all the time - 0.0000000000000214/nucleotide/generation according to these guys . Now multiply that by 3 billion nucleotides in a human, and 70(?) days to replace all the cells in your body. Most of the time, the mtuation is fatal and the cell dies. Most of the rest of the time, it does nothing at all. Once in a while, you get a mutation that is actually beneficial. And once in a while, that mutation happens to occur in gamates, so it actually gets passed on to children. That's clearly what happened in this case.
--
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt. --E.C. Stanton
So really the long term cure for AIDS from an evolutionary stand point is for everyone to have unsafe sex, and for the price of pharmaceuticals to enhance the infected's longentivity to go through the roof.
Well, for the most part I guess everything is going according to plan....
-- "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick
Well, we are a very capable species. We will not die off easily.
Better than cockroaches even!
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Tzarius
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Of course, but 25 years is little more than a single generation - an effective selection process would likely take many thousands, especially since HIV is not an instant kill and susceptible persons may live to have children.
Like other posters have mentioned, from the time of the Black Death / Bubonic plague which was devastatingly effective, less than 1% of the population involved now has immunity from that particular infection.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Raul654
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· Score: 2, Informative
Actually, the first case of HIV was 1959 . However, the leading theories are that HIV was spawned from SIV, which is, in fact, harmless to monkeys. It jumped species into HIV, which is deadly in humans.
--
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt. --E.C. Stanton
It was just a matter of time before our own bodies figured out how to survive this virus.
Actually, the gene has been around a long time. The reason that it is more prevalent in caucasians is because the same gene provided resistance to the Plague, which wiped out a large portion of the European (caucasian) population during the Middle Ages. Those who had the gene were more likely to survive, and thus pass on the gene to their offspring. So cuacasians can thank the Plague for their increased likelyhood of immunity. (IIRC, both parents must pass the gene to their children in order to confer immunity.)
-- Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I think that you misunderstand evolution. Genetic evolution is always sudden; it is only the rate of spread of the mutation that is variable. The environment and the side effect of the mutation usually determine the rate of spread. For example in this case if the AIDS mutation (i.e. immunity) became a highly desirable (or if the condition where especially deadly and contagious, like say Ebola) attribute it would spread quickly simply because other humans would like to have that gene. On the other hand if it where not highly desirable it may not spread quickly and may die out all together.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Proc6
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Just for fun...
0.0000000000000214/nucleotide/generation multiply that by 3 billion nucleotides in a human
------------------
0.0000642
70 year lifespan = 365 70-day cycles.
(so 0.0000642 x 365)
------------------
0.0243433
1 (person) divided by 0.0243433
------------------
4.1
So 1 mutation every 4 peoples entire lives, with a "most of the time it does nothing at all", sure doesnt look like a lot of evolution just whizzing past us to me...
Of course I'm just computing numbers without fact checking and maybe missing something.
--
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
Re:Genetics at work?
by
grcumb
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· Score: 5, Insightful
HIV/AIDS caused by changing sexual mores? Puh-leese.
Perhaps you could explain how this observation works with the fact that the most virulent New World disease (Syphilis) managed to spread like wildfire from Catholic Spain at the height of the Inquisition, throughout European society. And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain how it was still a significant and common disease at the height of the Victorian period.
Maybe I'll save you the effort. Both Syphilis and HIV/AIDS were enabled by revolutions in *Human Mobility*, not changes in morality. The syphilis epidemic erupted at the same time that commerce via ship hit a spike, and HIV/AIDS hit us when air travel spiked.
It's no surprise that 'Patient Zero' in the US HIV/AIDS outbreak was an airline steward. It *is* a coincidence that he happened to be gay.
-- Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
Perhaps you could explain how this observation works with the fact that the most virulent New World disease (Syphilis) managed to spread like wildfire from Catholic Spain at the height of the Inquisition, throughout European society. And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain how it was still a significant and common disease at the height of the Victorian period.
Your point is a good one, but you're not really suggesting that rates of promiscuous sex slowed significantly during the Inquisition and Victorian eras, do you? It's rare for an epidemiological event to be single-factor.
-- My God, it's Full of Source! OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
It was just a matter of time before our own bodies figured out how to survive this virus.
Evolution isn't 'smart'. It isn't directed. It's based upon random mutations, most of which are either bad or neutral in effect. Our bodies don't 'figure out' anything.
It's purely coincidence that some people seem to have a mutation which makes them immune to a disease. If the disease is a doozy and kills off most of the people who don't have the immunity, the survivors will pass on their random mutation through their own descendents and those their descendents intermarry with. Eventually most, or all, of the race will end up with that mutation.
But it's entirely an accident of circumstance, nothing more.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
sure doesnt look like a lot of evolution just whizzing past us to me...
No, but apparently enough.
Because it probably is a mutation since it's so rare.
-- Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Re:Genetics at work?
by
maxpublic
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· Score: 2, Insightful
The AIDS epidemic (and subsequent rush to find a cure) is indicitive of the human desire to do what pleases with no regard for the consequences.
Riiight. Like a flu epidemic is indicative of a human desire to breathe and interact with other human beings. Or the Black Plague was indicative of a desire for human beings to live in cities and coexist with rats.
AIDS is a disease, not a punishment.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
"It's more likely they've an odd mutant gene that by coincadence makes them immune to the virus"
Yes, and this is Exactly how genetics work. "odd mutant gene"s happen all the time - we all have a mutation or two, on some level, and some of these mutations become incredibly useful, allowing us to run faster, stay awake longer, think differently, or... resist HIV. Its not a case of genetics reacting to the HIV, but it is surely an example of why darwinism is so incredibly cool. If this mutation is significant enough to give the offsping a winning edge agasint others (meaning HIV would have to spread a lot more) we may see it propogate throughout futher generations.
Genetic evolution doesn't take place when it perceives a problem. Genetic evolution is blind, and "tries" variations at random. This is the whole beauty of it - it boils down to making an error while copying the genome. The errors that make something horrible happen, like causing a person to die instantly, don't propogate. The errors that enhance a person and give them an advantage over other people, do have a chance to propogate.
It is however largely preventable. When engaging in any potentially dangerous activity, one must consider the consequences. And while I am not religious, I do find it interesting that avoiding fornication and divorce (as demanded of Christians) is beneficial to not only people as individuals but also as familial units.
Whether you believe in God or not, perhaps AIDS is in fact a punishment. Evolution and natural selection do not necessarily imply a greater being, but it does have the effect of discouraging undesirable traits in creatures. If I were stupid enough to go play with the wild lions in Africa without protection, I shouldn't be surprised when one of them feels compelled to bite my head off.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Phroggy
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· Score: 2, Informative
It's more likely they've an odd mutant gene that by coincadence makes them immune to the virus.
I'm thinking you don't understand the basic concept of how evolution works?
A species doesn't try to evolve, in reaction to a threat or danger or disease. Rather, by random chance, some freak is born, quite by accident, who is immune to HIV (in this case). That's the first step. Step two is, they reproduce, and pass it on to their kids, who pass it on to their kids. Step three is, people who aren't immune to HIV die of AIDS, while those who are immune live normal lives. Voilà, evolution in action.
(By the way, I'm a Creationist; I do not believe humans evolved from lesser animals.)
-- $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$]; $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Genetics at work?
by
maxpublic
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· Score: 2, Insightful
perhaps AIDS is in fact a punishment.
No, it's a disease, pure and simple. And if you want to wander down the road of genetic viability, consider this: it makes far more sense for a woman to have each of her children by different men, than by one man alone. Which hardly supports your argument.
And 'fornication', as you put it, doesn't promote the spread of HIV. It would be 'fornication without using a condom' that risks the individual. Use the condom and the risk disappears.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
So basically you're saying that the effects of nature and "morality" are useful only when technology is unable to compenstate for the ill-effects of personal behavior? That's an interesting viewpoint, and one that unfortunately seems far too common nowadays. But, as they say: "Do as you will, but harm no one."
Medieval Catholics were very promiscuous. They slept around and then confessed it.
Sexual mores changed with the appearance of Protestant sects proclaiming 'work is virtue' and 'fun is sinful'. STD's also changed mores - syphillis killed people in a horrible way, so people got scared of sleeping around
I would state that HIV/AIDs did not spread a lot more virulently thanks to changes in sexual mores. It spread like wildfire in the West through highly mobile, highly promiscuous gay communities engaged in more dangerous sexual practises - anal sex carries a higher degree of infection, as its more abrasive. It wouldn't have been able to do so without having these carriers.
Its unfortunate that Patient Zero was a gay airline steward. If not for him, this epidemic might have erupted a bit later. But you're right, it wasn't caused by changing mores.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
BobTheLawyer
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· Score: 2, Funny
Even if you believe in a vengeful God who kills those he disapproves of, it is bizarre and illogical for AIDS to be a punishment (unless you believe that God hates gay men, hemophiliacs and people who have blood transfusions, but loves lesbians).
If you don't believe in God, how can an undirected act of nature possibly be said to be a "punishment"?
The CNN article linked to in the Wiki suggests a starting date of "around, or just after, the Second World War", which discredits the Cold War conspiracy theories. We all know there were no mad scientists running around back then who'd plant a virus in the heart of Africa in order to cause genocide against an entire dark-skinned race of people....
-- "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick
Re:Genetics at work?
by
hanssprudel
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· Score: 2, Informative
Of course I'm just computing numbers without fact checking and maybe missing something.
You mean like the fact that humans are not single cellular organisms?
I think you may have forgotten to multiply by the number of cells in the human body...
However, were we living in a survival of the fittest environment, the people that survive and have a chance to breed are the ones with the immunity. In 10 generations the entire world is immune.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Afty0r
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· Score: 5, Funny
It's no surprise that 'Patient Zero' in the US HIV/AIDS outbreak was an airline steward. It *is* a coincidence that he happened to be gay.
Wait a second... a male airline steward is gay, and that's supposed to be a coincidence?:)
Perhaps you could explain how this observation works with the fact that the most virulent New World disease (Syphilis) managed to spread like wildfire from Catholic Spain at the height of the Inquisition, throughout European society.
Perhaps because you don't have to be homosexual to get syphilis, nor have a large number of bisexual individuals to guarantee it makes the transition to heterosexuals.
Re:Genetics at work?
by
phoenix321
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· Score: 2, Insightful
-Get married
-Don't cheat
Keep on being faithful for 90-18=72 years. Don't cheat on your partner for three thousand seven hundred fourty-four weeks and weekends.
You are not married and you didn't have a long-term relationship yet, did you? One side of the relationship always becomes dull and passive, while the other partner becomes more active and dominant. Observed this in my own and many other relationships from friends. If you are the passive partner, no problem, just enjoy a solitary hobby or cuddle and hug your partner to death. Passive partners are happy enough to be around their partner, live with them and for them. If you're the active partner, wait for years for the next sexual activity, die from pure and severely hurting boredom, search a geeky niche hobby and disconnect from society or engage in extra-marital relationships.
Sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. Unless both partners happen to like the same almost-solitary hobby or a miracle of love happens, one of the partners is invariably bound to be bored by all that cuddly-fluffy relationship stuff. Once the process started, you have a positive feedback problem going on as the passive partner retreats into him/herself, into his/her hobbies or develops an unnatural and potentially unhealthy servitude for his partner. All that while the active partner, more and more assured by unquestioning love *and* tethered at the same time is facing the problem of feeling guilt for doing social (harmless) activities without his/her partner or ending up doing everything with him/her. The active partner then decides by gut feeling for one of the two ways, leading him/her to a intensively private relationship, having only the partner and at max two or three very similar couples as his/her friends and contact OR having "the bird waiting at home" while engaging in a circle of friends distinct from his/her partner, leading to encounters, flirts and sexual activity with like minded people from that circle or meeting new ones.
Having your social activity reduced to 5 persons at max, living intensely intimate and solitary OR having to deal with changing relationships and frequent feelings of guilt or life- and self-breaking decisions "leave current long-time partner for a possibly very short new interesting flirt that hurts in the end" or "sleep around, bury conscience and be a bad person" - not funny for anyone.
The partner that is more possible to leave the other is the active one. Are you the active or passive partner? Find out now: Do you have fear your partner's gonna leave some day? Is it impossible to do too many activities in common with your partner? Passive! Do you feel trapped in endless cuddling? Is the idea of having activities without the partner enticing on this fact alone? Active!
Feel free to comment on that, but perfect relationships are mostly described by "passive" partners that cannot imagine one on one life may NOT be sufficient for anyone;)
A broad and false assumption may be, that social activity without and in a different circle of friends of the partner ultimately leads to potential sexual attraction, but that's what I witnessed more often than not.
Humans are not built to be happy, but to reproduce. - dunno who said this, but it is sadly true, trust me.
If HIV/AIDS is a punishment from god, then I guess lesbians are the chosen people, as there's a markedly lower incidence of infection among that particular segment of the population.
-- Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
You are incorrect. using a condom REDUCES risk.. by 50-90% depending on how "correct" your technique is. Even using a condom "perfectly" you have a 1 in 10 chance of breakage.
the only way to eliminate risk is to have a mutually monogamous relationship with a person who does not have the virus.
-- Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Genetics at work?
by
ChrisMaple
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· Score: 4, Informative
It's not a coincidence that the initial disease vector was a male homosexual. Anal sex tends to break capillaries, making the transmission of AIDS much more likely.
-- Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
"It's more likely they've an odd mutant gene that by coincadence makes them immune to the virus"
We'll assume that the word you really want is coincidence.
Which isn't really the right word or concept anyway. Classic Darwinian evolution occurs when random mutations (in this case, allowing for resistance to infection by HIV) confer a selective advantage over individuals without that mutation (or trait or whatever). You're correct that in 25 (or 50 or 500) years of HIV being around isn't going to create much of a population effect, but nature's patient.
Check this space in a millenium.
-- Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Genetics at work?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
Dude, that was Score:4, So Informative It Was Too Much Fucking Information!
That 97% is lab environment equivalent using 28-40 year old married couples. There are no lab style studies using younger single individuals because such individuals choose not to participate for whatever reasoning.
-- Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
have you actually researched HOW MANY african women (or men for that matter) have contracted AIDS? how many are HIV-positive, and how the test is done for being HIV-positive?
if the answer is "no", then you have no idea what you are talking about, only regurgitating what others have told you.
At the current population of 616 million, 0.012 % are suffering from AIDS. The numbers of deaths per year represent only 0.6%. Hardly an "epidemic"; and these numbers come from the WHO.
Want to know what the criteria for being HIV-positive is in Africa?
a) "weight loss over 10%, b) chronic diarrhea for more than a month, c) fever for more than a month, d) persistent cough, e) generalized pruritic dermatitis, f) recurrent herpes zoster (shingles), g) candidiasis oral and pharyngeal, h) chronic or persistent herpes, i) cryptococcal meningitis, j) Kaposi's sarcoma"
notice that these are all generally symptomatic of somehow who is malnourished and living in substandard conditions. is it any surprise then that we have yet to discover the mysterious african strain of HIV?
And what do the world's leading virologists have to say:
"If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document."
-Dr. Kary Mullis, nobel prize laureaute, inventor of PCR
"Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical virology."
-Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München. Robert Koch Award 1978
"It is not proven that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, nor is it proven that it plays no role whatever in the syndrome."
-Dr. Harry Rubin, Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California at Berkeley
"HIV is an ordinary retrovirus. There is nothing about this virus that is unique. Everything that is discovered about HIV has an analogue in other retroviruses that don't cause AIDS. HIV only contains a very small piece of genetic information. There's no way it can do all these elaborate things they say it does."
-Dr. Harvey Bialy, Molecular Biologist, former editor of Bio/Technology and Nature Biotechnology
"The HIV-causes-AIDS dogma represents the grandest and perhaps the most morally destructive fraud that has ever been perpetrated on young men and women of the Western world."
-Dr. Charles Thomas, former Professor of Biochemistry, Harvard and John Hopkins Universities
so there is my data...where is yours? or perhaps you will bring forth these rhetorical "african women" that you speak of as testimony?
Virtual Light
by
Mark_MF-WN
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Didn't they do this in William Gibson's "Virtual Light"? Yet another Gibson prophecy fulfilled.
IIRC, the immunity in Virtual Light was caused by a mutant strain of the HIV virus, not a genetic immunity. The virus did nothing but sit in the body and prevent all other HIV strains from infecting the host.
I assume by this you're referring to the federal government's "ban" on certain types of research, such as stem cell reasearch... only there is no such ban. You can do all the research with any type of stem cells you want (including those from aborted fetuses) and not break a single law... you just can't do it using money from the federal government.
While whether or not such research should have access to federal funds is debatable (and I'd probably agree that the current regulations are too restrictive), it's a far cry from actually banning such research.
One useful statistic that I've never come across is the relative ammounts of research funding spent in the U.S. by private vs. public/government sources.
That's just great, a cure that US Law will say we can't experiment with
The American president already told you the "cure". The only safe path is abstinence. Abstaining from sexual intercourse is the best way to avoid getting HIV and other STIs.
I'm being kind of sarcastic here, but really not sure whether I'm trolling or being funny or what.
Having babies is not a good example of why abstinence is not acceptable. You can have babies without actually having sex, and you can also have sex only after a conclusive STD test and only for the purpose of procreation.
I am not arguing this as the proper way of life, nor am I interested in living it, but it is possible to perpetuate the species in this fashion.
-- "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well if you have just one sexual partner for life - e.g. no premarital sex, no sex outside marriage, then the species can propagate and still be _as_a_whole_ not very diminished by STDs.
There'll be outliers but as a whole the species would survive without need for other externalities.
Well you can't do stem cell research if anyone in your company receives any research grants from the federal government. Otherwies their funding goes bye bye.
"It's only pre-marital sex if you plan on getting married..."
Yah, call it what you will. Main point is monogamy does offer decent protection to the human race as a whole from STDs - protecting greater numbers rather than waiting for genetic immunity to evolve, whilst allowing offspring.
Re:WARNING!!! NOT GMAIL INVITES!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
It redirects to a gmail invite, moron.
Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
vossman77
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· Score: 4, Informative
If you RTFA you'll note:
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races," said Zhu
So it is NOT a new phenomenon.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
saitoh
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· Score: 1
Bingo, one of the first generation members of the gay community in San Francisco has a similar immunity while everyone around him died (ok, cant remember a year old episode of tv, my bad).
Whats interesting is that scientists had found some connection to those who had a resistance/immunity to the pleague back in the mideivel times, as the above mentioned indevidual was from a family tree which did not become infected with the pleague.
If someone knows what program I'm talking about, please pipe up.
-- We don't need an "overrated" so much as we need a "you completely missed the parent's point, dumbass..."
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Tablizer
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· Score: 1
one of the first generation members of the gay community in San Francisco has a similar immunity while everyone around him died
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint), gays tend not to reproduce. Thus, such genes won't be passed on.
Which brings up another interesting question: If gays don't reproduce, why do they exist? I suspect because there were less freedoms in the past, and people had limited lifestyle choices.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Fancia
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Homosexuality isn't, as far as research can tell, genetic. It seems to be caused by conditions within the mother's womb, which causes the brain to develop in a slightly different way.
--
Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Rude+Turnip
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· Score: 1
The idea of the stereotypical gay person didn't exist until the 1800's; it's a relatively modern social constuct. Before that time, people were still doing heterosexual and homosexual acts with one another, but they weren't characterized by that one trait.
To put things into perspective, it's like defining Linux and Windows users into two different types of people. Of course, you know what that makes those who dual boot:)
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Fnkmaster
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· Score: 1
While this is true, read Plato sometime. It's pretty clear that the ancient Greeks, who (at least in the aristocratic circles) practiced homosexual acts among otherwise "heterosexual" men, still had a concept that some guys were fundamentally more homosexual in that they actually exclusively enjoyed or practiced homosexual sex, or saw it as more than just a bonding ritual between men. And such men were open to ridicule as being, well, "girlie men" to borrow Schwarzenegger's phrase.
Obviously the modern construct of homosexuality is just a manifestation of the Christian construct. In any Judeo-Christian culture, it's tough to be "somewhat gay" because of that (this obviously has changed in recent years in more liberal places like New York City, where bisexuality has even been the vogue at times). Obviously the stereotype of certain characteristics is a modern construct, but the association of feminizing characteristics with homosexual behavior doesn't seem very new at all. Certain patterns seem to be consistent - smaller portions of the population do seem to prefer members of the same sex to the other sex, and even radically disparate cultures do have ideas of "gayness" built around this. And many cultures seem to have transgendered individuals, people who cross-dress or otherwise assume the identity of the other sex (more often this seems to be men).
I don't know if this means that there is a biological basis for the trait, or if it's a truly genetic trait, or if the observation is simply a coincidence. The latter seems unlikely to me, but as has been pointed out, there still seems to be no strong proof of a biological basis for sexual preference (that I'm aware of anyway - some biological correlations have been made some time ago, but I don't know if those have held up, and I certainly don't think any causational links were established or mechanisms suggested).
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
man_ls
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Just curious, then, where does that put bisexuals?
Sexuality is a long gamut of values...a simple 2, 3, or even 4-block characterization is too general.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
dAzED1
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· Score: 1
...
I guess you've never heard of the Sacred band of Thebes, or...Sodom and Gomorrah?
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
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bullitB
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· Score: 1
I have to say the tone here is a bit concerning...
Aren't human races supposed to be a construction of human societies? Isn't there no real biological/genetic basis in them? Aren't there just "people with darker skin who happen to be from Africa" and "people with lighter skin who happen to be from Europe?"
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
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maxpublic
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Just curious, then, where does that put bisexuals?
No one knows, but it doesn't seem to be linked to morphological differences in the brain. And I doubt we'll find out any time soon, since bisexuals are generally treated as deviants by both hetero- and homosexuals (except when it's part of some straight guy's "bi-babe" fantasy).
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Interesting
depending on who you want to believe (research CAN BE political) homosexual behavior is present in all mamals.
i chock it up to sexual orientation, like other human mind attributes, being full of deviance (used in the scientific, not religious sense). i took a sociology class where we were taught that sexuality isn't black and white -- there are stops all along the way. some people's sexuality is very hetro, some are slightly attracted to some members of their own sex, some are homo and some are asexual -- not sexually attracted to anyone. throw in varying levels of sexual desire and you have quite a diverse range of sexualities.
sadly, it's a subject where some ancient beliefs still hold sway.
there is the obvious evolutionary argument against but if you consider sexuality as a spectrum, this argument is diminished a bit (a mainly homo individual could be attracted to the occasional hetero partner).
then perhaps, you could consider non-reproducing mutations as beneficial to the survival of a species -- non-reproducing individuals can help a society in other ways. for example, homosexuality doesn't mean lack of desire to care for young. but it limits the chances of that individual having their own children. so a homosexual individual could be an assett in a society where child rearing is done by everyone.
remember: computers are binary, humans are analog.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
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isorox
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· Score: 1
Homosexuality isn't, as far as research can tell, genetic.
If it were, then there'd be no homosexuals on the world, as they wouldn't procreate
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
INT+21h
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· Score: 2, Insightful
If it was, and was recessive, it wouldn't matter whether the homosexuals procreated or not, the gene would be furthered by their heterosexual relatives.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
emotionus
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Well one theory is this...
After studying penguines it was notice they too have a substantial gay population. These gay penguines mated for life, like other penguines. Also, heterosexual penguines would sometimes have young and abondon them. So, the gay penguines would pick up the abandoned young and care for them.
So the theory goes like this: The homosexuals might be there so that they may adopt unwanted / orphaned young.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
emotionus
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· Score: 1
Even then, if you a homosexual teacher actually penetrated a pupil, he would in essence make that pupil inferior. Sex, as evidencecd by some ancient clay pots I've read about, between the teacher and student involved the student bending over and the teacher having sex in between the thighs, not in the anus.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Alioth
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Well, that's not quite true.
Many homosexuals have been married and had children out of societal pressures. Also, as another poster pointed out, it could be a recessive gene and as such a straight-as-an-arrow heterosexual could still be carrying it.
I think the truth lies in a more complex set of factors - partly rooted in genetics, and partly rooted in environmental and developmental factors. I think very little lies in "lifestyle choice".
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
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bondero
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· Score: 1
>Homosexuality isn't, as far as research can tell, >genetic. It seems to be caused by conditions within >the mother's womb, which causes the brain to >develop in a slightly different way. > Are the "conditions within the mother's womb" a consequence of genetics? Just a thought.
-- --
You're on a first name basis with Lucidity. I have to call it Mr. Lucidity, and that's no good in a pinch.
Re:Not as interesting as it sounds...
by
Fancia
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· Score: 1
Not to my knowledge. Stress is one thing that affects it, for instance; the more stress the mother is under during pregnancy, the high the chance of the child being homosexual. I don't think that would be a direct connsequence of genetics.
the case of David Crohn and others who lack secondary CCR5 (for macrophages) or CXCR4 (for T-cells) receptors and are thus resistant to HIV infection. NB: CCR5 and CXCR4 are believed to be secondary to the CD4 receptor, found on both cell types, in the HIV binding process.
The only novel thing about this discovery is that it was in Asians, vs. the Caucasian populations in which immunity had previously been reported (and I suppose African as well, even though the Kenyan prostitutes as referenced above turned out to not be immune). The article is pretty worthless, not even listing what the "mutant genes" are, but it's a pretty good guess that CCR5 and/or CXCR4 is involved.
"the case of David Crohn [pbs.org] and others who lack secondary CCR5 (for macrophages) or CXCR4 (for T-cells) receptors and are thus resistant to HIV infection. NB: CCR5 and CXCR4 are believed to be secondary to the CD4 receptor, found on both cell types, in the HIV binding process."
You are precisely right in mentioning the chemokine coreceptors.
CCR5 is the coreceptor (in fact, it has been _inconclusively_ demonstrated that CD4 may NOT be totally necessary to mediate viral entry of some strains into the cell, but the chemokine "co"receptors, that is CXCR4 or CCR5, absolutely are) which is present on the cell membrane of Macrophages, among other cell types. Macrophages are almost universally the first cell type infected in an HIV patient, regardles of whether the exposure route was sexual or by blood-blood contact.
This "immunity" against HIV infection so far as I know involves a truncated CCR5 gene, but NOT necessarily a truncated CXCR4 gene (as was previously assumed). The consequences of this are that the individual is simply NOT Immune to HIV infection in any normal sense of the word, but is for all intents and purposes incapable of *contracting* HIV in the first place through the normal routes unless Th (helper-T cells, typically CD4+) cells are directly exposed to HIV virus, something that would probably happen only if HIV were directly injected into the lymph.
Since Th cells do not possess CCR5, but rather CXCR4 which is not affected by the CCR5 mutation, T-tropic HIV strains could theoretically infect any individual with a mutated or nonexistant CCR5 gene assuming CXCR4 is not affected, which it is usually not. If the virus could get to the T-cells that is. Since they do not patrol the periphery, let alone extravasate out of capillaries into tissue, this is unlikely outide of a lymph exposure. Injecting an HIV load into a lymph node might do it.
Since macrophages are produced in the bone marrow, as are T cells (though T's mature in the Thymus, hence the name), gene therapy directly to the uterine/vaginal/urethral area as suggested in the article would almost certainly be totally ineffective, since the macrophages patrolling the periphery will NOT dynamically uptake a defective gene and delete the properly functional endogenous copy.
Therefore, any gene therapy approach would have to target the pluripotent stem cells in the bone marrow of the individual. Needless to say, replacing these cells would not be an easy, cheap, or particularly safe operation to perform in the immediate future. While it is possible to irradiate an organism sufficiently to kill off the pluripotent stem cells in the marrow and then replace these cells (thus reconstituting the immune system before the organism dies of infection), this would not be a particularly feasible procedure.
More reasonably, a CCR5 binding humanized antibody might be effective (see the drug Antigren from Elan as a treatment for Crohns/MS) as something of a deterrent. The Immune system can react to antibodies after a time, however.
What makes you say that? Deletion of traits is part of evolution just as much as the introduction of new traits is.
You're sort of right in the sense that *any* mutation by itself is not "evolution" per se. Evolution is the change in gene frequency over time through the processes of mutation and natural selection. Also, if attempts to create a cure or vaccine from this are successful, evolution will have been circumvented as those without the allele for no CCR-5 or CXCR-4 will survive, removing the selective pressure. But you're still wrong that evolution only means adding new things.
and pregnancy.
by
taxman_10m
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· Score: 3, Insightful
I'm sure they'll find some mutant gene that cures that also.
Re:and pregnancy.
by
really?
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I am quite sure they already have. I think they call it the "Y" chromosome... if I recall correctly.
--
"Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
What a coincidence...
by
l0ungeb0y
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· Score: 2, Interesting
How I was reflecting on Gibsons Virtual Light over my morning coffee this morning and now I hear about the mutant gene that practically fulfills Gibsons prophecy regarding the therapy.
Personally, I would undergo genetic therapy and have my chioldren (when/if I have them) undergo such a therapy if made available. I think this particular finding an excellent example of how far the field of genetics has gone and the promise it shows. The flip side of course being the perils of falling into the Nazi idealism of creating a master race from a genetic template considered desirable.
Re:What a coincidence...
by
l0ungeb0y
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· Score: 1
Yes it was. But insight need not be perfect. The fact the man saw a genetic defect providing the key was the point. Wether that defect lay in man or virii is hardly the case. And yes, I though of brining that up -- the bit about genetic mutation in the virii itself -- but it's been nearly a decade since I read Virtual Light (still have it on my shelf) but didn't care for specifics.
The flip side of course being the perils of falling into the Nazi idealism of creating a master race from a genetic template considered desirable.
I don't think it's really the same thing. (BTW, don't take this as an attack of anything, especially as I got the impression you were just throwing the idea out there to be fair.) I don't think a "master race" is ever a good idea, but I don't think this even comes close.
First off, what I think most people find most objectionable isn't that Hitler thought some people were better than others: I think millions of people today still believe some races of people are superior to other races. What made it go from discrimination to one of the worst attrocities ever was when he started killing the exterior races.
I don't view the potential to find a cure for AIDS as creating a master race. I think it's the same as eliminating smallpox, or having flu shots: you're just preventing death.
-- ________________________________________________
suwain_2:: quality slashdot p
Re:What a coincidence...
by
l0ungeb0y
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· Score: 1
Ohhhh no no no. Eugenics got it's start in the 1860's and has much more to it than just "racial" issues. And it really took root after Freud stepped in with hiis Psychoanalytics. I posted along this same subject matter here in a previous reply to my parent post
Thing is, once you arrive at a "solution" to most of mans ails through genetics, there is the immediate temptation to eradicate non-implemented devices to the current architecture. Thus, for success to be merited via metrics, no on must ail. Rather than waiting a few generations, business and political agendas may revert back to simple eugenic formulas (the precurser to gene-therapy -- which was the real goal of the "Master Race", but non-existent tech at the time) to eradicate the un-processed from the system to take claim to success and impose a structures system around the "safe and simple" system created to ensure our best interests.
Hence my bit in the linked post about voting Democratic, as the Replicans at this time seem the most hell bent on conforming society to their ideals (the neocons at least and thus Bush). So with the advent of the "miracles" of gene therapy, there is the problem of idealism and corporate profit, hence the present danger of abuse and a revert to the doctrines of 100 years ago... and though you may laugh, history DOES repeat itself, and in shorter and shorter cycles it would seem.
Re:What a coincidence...
by
maxpublic
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· Score: 1
Old-style eugenics had nothing to do with 'improving the race', but rather with making sure that those deemed part of an 'inferior' breed weren't allowed to propagate. It was nothing more than a pseudo-scientific justification for racism.
I see nothing wrong with using science to improve the race. If I can eliminate any defects in my children, improve their intelligence, strength, and speed, etc. then why not? In any event that's up to me and me alone to decide; nobody else has any business interfering in that.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Woulden't that be "In Soviet Russia, HIVs are immune to YOU!" ?
immunity? someone should research slashdot
by
taxman_10m
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· Score: 5, Funny
Lots of people immune from STDs here.
1 More Reason to Find Swedish Women Hot
by
craXORjack
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· Score: 5, Interesting
I swear I saw a documentary on PBS about how a tiny percentage of mostly european descendants are immune and it was because of the Black Death (or Bubonic plague, I'm not sure that those are the same thing.) But googling for answers lead me to
this article which says that 10-15 percent of northern europeans have limited immunity due to inheriting 1 resistant gene and 1% inherited the gene from both parents giving them full immunity. And Swedes have the highest percentage. Also it says the Plague is debunked and suggests the everpresent Smallpox as the culprit.
-- Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Re:1 More Reason to Find Swedish Women Hot
by
slumpy
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· Score: 1
I remember seeing it. I think they traced it back to a small village who, to this day, still carry the genes to make them immune to the black plague.
-- http://www.commaecho.com
Ah the cliches..
by
TheAvatar666
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· Score: 1, Funny
I, for one, welcome our new mutant overlords, err, overladies.
The most widely held conspiracy theory about HIV and AIDS is that they actually found a cure years ago, but Big Pharma makes more money selling the AZT "drug cocktail" than they would make selling the cure. An independently discovered cure would probably make everything go shitstorm.
-- Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
And when it doesn't, that'll indicate no conspiracy, right? I'm puttin my money on the later.
-- Beware of geeks bearing formulas.
Re:Conspiracy theory
by
Alomex
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· Score: 4, Funny
You are indeed correct. In fact I've been able to replicate the chemical compound in my basement wet lab, but lack the funds for commercialization. Please send a check to my Nigerian account so I can continue with my research.
Yea, and not only that but it was engineered by the govornment as an attempt to limit the population so we dont consume all of the planets resources......
Re:Conspiracy theory
by
suwain_2
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· Score: 2, Interesting
This absolutely could be the case. And yet I'm sure it isn't.
Businesses will do anything to make a buck. Companies routinely overlook blatant safety hazards that put their customers' lives on the line.
But I think if someone had cured AIDS, they'd go forth with it, if nothing else so they could claim they cured AIDS. I think if a big pharmaceutical came out tomorrow with a (credible) claim at having cured AIDS, their stock would go through the roof.
-- ________________________________________________
suwain_2:: quality slashdot p
The main story and your post put me in mind of a particular episode of "Secrets of the Dead" that I saw, exploring the plague and its survivors.
I wonder if either of those fellows could have been carriers of the delta 32 gene, a mutated form of the gene CCR5:
"In 1996, research showed that delta 32 prevents HIV from entering human cells and infecting the body"
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/
I didn't see in the article anywhere where it mentioned which gene was affected in the Chinese women, but it seems like to be a different one, based on the information presented in the "Secrets" show:
"O'Brien assembled an international team of scientists to test for the presence of delta 32 around the world. "Native Africans did not have delta 32 at all," O'Brien says, "and when we looked at East Asians and Indians, they were also flat zero." In fact, the levels of delta 32 found in Eyam were only matched in regions of Europe that had been affected by the plague and in America, which was, for the most part, settled by European plague survivors and their descendents."
It was a really good show and if you get the opportunity to watch it, I highly recommend that you do.
I hope this is true
by
ShatteredDream
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Growing up, not too long into adolescence a friend of our family died of complications due to AIDS. I was barely 14 at the time and it struck me how dangerous AIDS really is. For years people used to think that my having no desire to fuck around like most of my peers was that I was gay. Then occassionally I'd let slip the story about our friend it just floored them. The scariest part is that they could have had HIV at the very moment they were thinking, after my telling that story, "but that can't happen to me."
What really struck me was that we saw the guy only about 3-4 months before he died. He was about as healthy as I am now at 21, and I workout on a regular basis. Then a few months later, *BOOM* dead of complication caused by AIDS. The scariest thing about the disease is that you can go without knowing you have it until the last minute.
Re:I hope this is true
by
TykeClone
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Not to be harsh, but you can get the same thing with heart problems. I mowed lawns in high school - one afternoon I mowed the lawn of a little old lady. That night, my dad came home and said that she had just died of a heart attack. She looked fine that afternoon, but that night she was dead.
Same goes for any kind of cancer - it can insidiously grow in you until there's nothing you can do about it but waste away and die.
Probably going to burn some karma with those comments, but it's a terrible disease that they're working on. I hope they find a cure and kick its ass - same for cancer - but it's just another way to die.
-- A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Sorry to say that, but it seems that the trauma you've gone through because of that guy death has left an imprint in your mind and that you are unnaturally afraid of dying (at least for your age). I don't say that fucking around is a good thing, but relating sex to dying in your mind might be a problem for you when you'll want to develop a relationship. I would recommend that you talk to a psychotherapist about this.
And on the philosophical side - dying is a big part of life, we die with every breath we take and we have to live with that. But don't worry, it's not as real as you might think.
There have been people found before who should have contracted the disease who didn't. Basically they receptor that's needed isn't there or is damaged. I saw it on tv two years or so ago.
I read "We have a good package to work with." and thought apt-get install aidsmutantgene
-- "goodbye and hello, as always"
~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
What kind of immunity are we talking about?
by
jcr
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· Score: 1
Does it mean that they're not susceptible to the disease, but that they carry the virus, or that the virus can't invade their immune cells in the first place?
-jcr
-- The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I'm just glad to know SOMEONE will survive if this thing ever becomes airborne. LOL! Three Chinese chicks and a guy in Aboriginal Australia will recreate the human race. Boy, is our species in for a ride!
-- "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
Re:It seems unlikely.
by
Fulcrum+of+Evil
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· Score: 2, Insightful
The only way to be immune, then, is for the white blood cells not to attack the virus, or even be in the area of it. The natural self-destruct system in the cells will eventually trigger. Provided the self-destruct triggers faster than the virus can spread, the body would be guaranteed to win.
Or, you could have white blood cells that HIV has difficulty attaching to. No attack vector means that HIV never gets a chance to do its work.
-- "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala,
it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Re:It seems unlikely.
by
ender81b
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· Score: 2, Interesting
They probably simply lack the necassary receptors (t-5?) on their white blood cells for the virus to attack. Probably nothing more than that - most of the vaccinness/treatments now adays are focusing on those areas since if they are blocked the virus can't attach itself.
So is there any proof any of these mutant genes are directly relevent for HIV immunity? How do they test that? Do they acttively give you HIV and see if you get infected? Could it just be a coincidence that the mutant gene shows up in people that are "immune to HIV"? Cause and effect are not the same as correlation.
Why haven't these two posts been modded up?? The parent's post would be correct for most things. But if the virus cannot attach itself, then it cannot propigate and those making the person imune. No matter how many times the viruses adjusts itself, if it can't attach then it can't work.
It's sad that the incredibly *clueless* parent post is modded +5 and yours is not... since you are probably correct and his knowledge of biology could apparently fit on a postage stamp.
-- Freedom: "I won't!"
seen this immunity before...
by
ezonme
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· Score: 5, Informative
... in a different way. Check these "news" from July 2, 1998:
Geneva - Researchers have uncovered unusual behaviors of human immune systems that seem to have protected certain babies in Canada, prostitutes in Thailand and Africa, and gay men in San Francisco from HIV, despite exposure to the AIDS virus.
The protections do not appear to be genetic, and may offer some critical clues to those hoping to make a vaccine against HIV.
At Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto, Dr. Kelly MacDonald and a team of pediatricians noticed something odd earlier this year: HIV-positive mothers did not pass the virus to babies who were born with immunologically incompatible blood. In cases of incompatibility, the mother has one genetic type of immune system markers, and the baby a different set. This can put the baby at risk of being attacked by the mother's immune system.
But, in the case of HIV-infected mothers, this immunological incompatibility saved the babies from HIV, MacDonald reported yesterday. The finding was based on a study of 111 mother / child pairs.
MacDonald believes that a key factor in the babies' genetic makeup - called A2/A6802 supertype - by fortunate coincidence prevents HIV from infecting the child. When the mother and child share the same genetic makeup in their immune system, MacDonald discovered, the child is 2.63 times more likely to get infected with HIV.
Since approximately 40 percent of the population worldwide has the A2/A6802 supertype, it makes it an attractive target for vaccine design, MacDonald said.
The U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied 280 prostitutes in Thailand who had worked in brothels for three years or more, and a group of non-prostitute Thai women. Not surprisingly, the prostitutes were far more likely to be infected with the virus, and 47 percent were HIV-positive, the CDC reported yesterday.
Remarkably, however, nine of the prostitutes were negative for HIV, even though they had genital herpes and syphilis - clear indications of unsafe sexual behavior. The women did not have any of the genetic mutations that have been shown to protect some Caucasians from HIV. But they did apparently have complete immunity. Cells of their immune systems were killing every HIV to which they were exposed, the CDC team discovered. And laboratory studies revealed that their CD8 T-cells, a type of white blood cell, were secreting a factor which, when mixed in a petri dish with human cells and HIV, stimulated immune cells to destroy the virus.
Dr. Jay Levy of the University of California in San Francisco has presented evidence of a CD8-produced factor that stops HIV, as well. For years he has tried to isolate the mysterious substance, to no avail. But it could result, he said in a speech, in a way to maintain control of the virus without the need for antiviral drugs.
Sharon Stranford, a researcher in Levy's laboratory, examined the immune system cells of gay San Francisco men who have been exposed repeatedly to HIV and never become infected. She said that the CD8 cells in these men make a mysterious factor that protects against HIV. But it is not the same as the one discovered in Thai prostitutes, Stranford said, because it blocks HIV without prompting immune system cells to kill the virus. It works by blocking the ability of HIV to make copies of itself, Levy said.
Finally, a CDC team working in Abijan, Ivory Coast, has also found a group of uninfected prostitutes. They, too, lack any genetic protection. And their ability to fight off HIV is also immunological. The team hasn't yet worked out the details, researchers said, but it is clear that immune system cells in the African prostitutes are highly activated, as if constantly ready to go to war.
This has taught me that reading foreign newspapers up in the college library is a positive thing.
It would be incredible if the scientists working with gene therapy could figure out how to isolate this thing and create an immunity/cure to the virus. Considering the previous effectiveness of such methods, though, my hopes are not high.
-Kyle
This is just a local story.
by
Futurepower(R)
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· Score: 1
This is not a major story. It is just meant to be a local story. For example, see this 2002 story: Secrets of Aids 'immunity'. Here is a quote, "Scientists have known since the mid-1980s that some people with HIV do not go on to develop Aids."
First, it's been know for ages, so it's not a new mutation.
The specific 'mutation' involve CCR5, a coreceptor of HIV-1. An uncommun deletion called CCR5delta32 make it so that M-tropic HIV-1 can't enter CCR5+ cells in homozygote individuals (2 copies of the mutant gene). Heterozygotes (having a functional CCR5 and a mutated one) show less resistance to infection (70% resistance, estimated).
HIV-1 can exhibit a tropism (T-tropic) for another coreceptor, CXCR4, for which no mutation is known, so total immunity isn't exact; we can talk about resistance at best. M-tropic viruses are associated with de novo infection, and a switch to T-tropism is thought to be a turning point in the degeneration to AIDS (but not always).
Even CCR5delta32 individuals can be infected (althought have far less risk than you and me). Even then, the infection progress far more slowly than in normal individuals... they're called long term non-progressors. Won't develop AIDS in their lifetime, but still infectious, which can be dangerous...
Sorry, a biology-illiterate --but interested-- geek here. I was wondering if your statement pertained to both homo and hetero zygote individuals or just the homos? Are they only affected by the T-tropic then? If not then how can they be infected if they have no "port" to which the HIV can attach?
-- Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
I'll refer you to an excellent article(FULL free text on pubmed as a bonus) at http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/18/10214. Table 2 is of great interest; it displays probabilities of sexual-mediated infection for every kind of partner, male to female or female to male (sadly, male/male is absent from the list). Notice the sad looking rate of infection (0.04) in normal partners (HIV-1 is a lousy virus, efficiency speaking... thank god!). The rates are a lot smaller in delta32 individuals (table show data for homo or heterozygotes), especially in transmission from a non-acutely (first stages of the disease, where the virus replicate a lot, then fade for 10-20 years before destroying the immune system) infected partner.
Other means of infection include of course intraveinous drug, which can transmit a T-tropic virus which is fully infectious in these individuals (infect T cells but not macrophages) and blood transfusions (in the 80s, mainly).
AIDS immunity related to the plague
by
hshana
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· Score: 1
This isn't really new news. AIDS infects by entering a receptor on T-cells which are part of our immune systems. I believe the great plague of the middle ages used this same mechanism. Fortunately, there are variations in the gene that causes variations in the structure of this receptor. Some of the people who survived the plague had this variant of the gene and therefore it's frequency in the population was increased and passed on. It's not surprising that after several hundred years this variant has found its way into different ethnicities, although it is probably most abundant in Europeans.
Re:AIDS immunity related to the plague
by
hshana
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· Score: 1
Yes, but they use the same pathway for infection. The both hijack T-cells.
http://personals.galaxyinternet.net/tunga/AIDS.htm
otherwise completely normal
by
jeif1k
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· Score: 4, Interesting
In other words, you must have a pathetically weak immune system (or none at all), and your body's cells must be so fragile that any abnormality of any kind will destroy them instantly.
A small fraction of people seems to be resistant to HIV infection because they carry idiosyncratic mutations that interfere with the way the HIV virus works. That doesn't mean they have a "pathetically weak immune system"; in fact, such mutations generally have no known effects at all other than conferring HIV resistance. Furthermore, resistance of some fraction of the population to specific viruses is a common occurrence.
But, hey, if that's what these two women want for their life, that's their problem.
WTF is that supposed to mean? One of the women in question was exposed to HIV from her husband, who was infected through a blood transfusion. It's bad enough that bigoted right wingers confuse stupidity and carelessness (unprotected sex) with immorality, but now people like you even consider accidentally getting a tainted blood transfusion a lifestyle choice and a moral failing?
I think you demonstrate just how absurd your kinds of views are, and the blithering nonsense that preceded it showed how uninformed you are.
Re:otherwise completely normal
by
amorsen
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· Score: 1
Re:otherwise completely normal
by
BgJonson79
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· Score: 1
Technically, everything bad that ever happens to any of us, once we're older than 16 or so, is our fault, because we didn't take the initiative to take our own lives. Nothing bad can happen to you if you're dead.
Stupid argument, but true.
--
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
From the article: "Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races"
That sort of makes it sound like there is already an HIV/AIDS cure for caucasians...
In Zhu's opinion, if medicine functioning similarly with the genes was put in the vagina and rectum, the HIV virus couldn't find its carrier to enter the human body and thus would be expelled.
Does this make sense to anyone? Granted, these are the reporter's words, not the doctor's words... but that just doesn't sound logical to me. The virus is there, in contact with this "medicine" and your own cells. Because of the medicine's structure, the virus can't affect it, but how does that help your own cells, which do NOT have that protection?
Frankly, the simple (but often unused/misused) "condom" solution seems easier in this example then the medicine he's talking about.
Much of the AIDS epidemic in Africa is directly caused by people misunderstanding how the virus is transmitted and treated (no, sex with virgins or babies won't help you), due in some cases to the sheer stupidity of certain leaders ("HIV does NOT cause AIDS"), poor education programs, and the equally stupid refusal of certain other religious-minded leaders who refuse to support programs that advocate anything other than celibacy to prevent STDs. Madness.
I hope that at a minimum, China is putting some serious resources into educating their population about how HIV/AIDS works, and how to avoid getting it. Obviously that's not the end of the battle, but it's the basic starting point.
If only I had moderation points:( Mod up this guy, he's right on target.
The phrase you highlighted bothers me too... hope it's coming from a misinterpretation from the reporter (which according to my experience, happens a lot). It just doesn't make any sense... and I'm working on AIDS, I should know:)
Education goes a long way in preventing AIDS, just look at Northern America numbers vs Africa... of course, the problem of poverty is interwined with lack of education...
China is a special case... being communist, with the tendency to leak only the information it wants, it can cause certain problems. Some think that the epidemic is well underway back there, see : http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,1 3673,501031215-557111,00.html... Chances are that we're only seing the tip of the iceberg.
It just doesn't make any sense... and I'm working on AIDS, I should know
I don't think cooking Meals On Wheels counts as "working on AIDS".:)
Seriously, it's simple to think up the scenario the researcher was hoping to employ.
The gene encodes a receptor, the conformation of which is altered by the mutation. This renders the binding step of the virus inoperable. Any application couldn't alter all the receptors in the patient inoperable, that's true enough.
But a suppository having LARGE quantities of the receptors unmutated binding site could act to competitively inhibit binding to cell membrane bound receptors. Thereupon the inactivated virus would simply pass out of the... cavity.
and here in America,
In African-American males, 40% of cases were related to injection drug use, 36% in females.. and 37.2% of all Hispanics.
Source: Centers for Disease Control, HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report 2002 (October 2002), Vol. 14, Table 11, page 20.
Needle exchange programs can "prevent significant numbers of infections among clients of the programs, their drug and sex partners and their offspring. In almost all cases, the cost per HIV infection averted is far below the $119,000 lifetime cost of treating an HIV infected person."
Source: Lurie, P. & Reingold, A.L., et al., The Public Health Impact of Needle Exchange Programs in the United States and Abroad (San Francisco, CA: University of California, 1993), Vol. 1, Executive Summary, pp. iii-v.
"After reviewing all of the research to date, the senior scientists of the Department and I have unanimously agreed that there is conclusive scientific evidence that syringe exchange programs, as part of a comprehensive HIV prevention strategy, are an effective public health intervention that reduces the transmission of HIV and does not encourage the use of illegal drugs."
Source: US Surgeon General Dr. David Satcher, Department of Health and Human Services, Evidence-Based Findings on the Efficacy of Syringe Exchange Programs: An Analysis from the Assistant Secretary for Health and Surgeon General of the Scientific Research Completed Since April 1998 (Washington, DC: Dept. of Health and Human Services, 2000)
I don't have a source off-hand, but I believe it was concluded that easy syringe availability reduced HIV infection rates among IDUs by 70%. The United States needs to put its resources into educating the politicians (both major parties really) and the majority of their constituents that HIV isn't only from sex, and that syringe access significantly reduces the HIV infection rate while not increasing use rates of the drugs.
Of course this subject area didn't come up when Cheney and Edwards were talking about the AIDS problem in the US, and don't expect it to come up in either of the remaining presidential debates. Basing policies on science and compassion indeed. Both Bush and Kerry should be ashamed, and frankly so should the general public who don't support such programs for the same erroneous belief that it promotes use.
Re:Dubious Science
by
mefus
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· Score: 2, Informative
Because of the medicine's structure, the virus can't affect it, but how does that help your own cells, which do NOT have that protection?
The "medicine" is the unmutated, exposed part of the protein receptor, a recombinant protein, and a delivery mechanism (probably linked to an Immunoglobulin stalk, in an emulsion in suppository form.)
Placed prior to sexual intercourse, the recombinant protein would competitively bind to the HIV surface and render it harmless.
But a suppository having LARGE quantities of the receptors unmutated binding site could act to competitively inhibit binding to cell membrane bound receptors. Thereupon the inactivated virus would simply pass out of the... cavity.
I see what you're saying, and I still don't get it. A simple suppository wouldn't do it (plus would interfere with sex more than a condom). You'd have to ensure that the virus-carrying... fluid came into contact with this blocker *before* it came into contact with any normal cells. I'll leave the scenarios to you (it's not like preventing pregnancy, where we just have to stop the sperm from surviving past the cervix), but the low-tech, low-cost condom just seems a lot simpler and more effective to me than asking the woman to repeated douse yourself inside and out during intercourse.
And one final point which I'm qualified to make, since I played the viola for 7 years and I speak French: you mean "voila".;-)
I hope that at a minimum, China is putting some serious resources into educating their population about how HIV/AIDS works...
No. They just shoot prostitutes. The last time I checked, prostitution was a capital offence, or close the that. So, you'd think with this attitude towards sex, China would be immune to AIDS, but, unfortunately, AIDS is not only transmitted by sex. The Chinese had a blood drive, to acquire volunteers' blood for transfusions, and they didn't sterilize the equipment enough... I think they paid the volunteers, so lots of poor peasants participated. So they got a large portion of the population infected; people that you'd never think would be at risk.
I don't know what you mean by that, but most suppositories, regardless of the goal intended for it (inflammation, spermicide, whatever) are design to dissolve into a foamy emulsion.
it's not like preventing pregnancy, where we just have to stop the sperm from surviving past the cervix
Please explain. To my mind, it is precisely like stopping sperm. The fact sperm are motile is irrelevant. If the virus are released in a mileu in which they will be coated by inhibitory agents your goal is met.
And, I'm definitely not recommending against the use of condoms. Don't know where you got that idea. With such an agent you can multiply the probabilities of contracting anything and lower infection rate.
Okay, clearly I know nothing about suppositories. And no, I'm sure you aren't against condoms!
But it's not like stopping sperm. If there's plenty of spermicide in the upper reaches of the vagina, that'll probably do the trick to stop a pregnancy, because any sperm that ends up anywhere else won't matter, including the external parts of her sex organs, her hands, etc.. Again, not my field of expertise at all, but a virus just needs an abrasion, tiny cut, etc. *anywhere*, so she'd need to have a generous coating of this substance anywhere that the ejaculate might touch her.
Preventing it from touching her seems simpler and more reliable. That's my real point here.
Re:It seems unlikely.
by
cyclop
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· Score: 5, Informative
Hmmm...Is the parent a nice molecular-biology troll or just a gem of ignorance mixed with self-confidence?
"Because there's very little in the virus that is guaranteed to be common to ALL instances of said virus, it is hard to see how immunity could exist, even in theory."
The resistance mutation depends from the absence of a particular chemokine receptor on human white blood cells. In principle, the HIV virus could use another receptor to enter. In practice it's quite improbable the virus can mutate his whole capsid proteins to get advantage of a totally new receptor.
"Then, you have other problems. HIV is detected in a number of ways, but probably the most common way is to detect the antibodies to the virus. This causes an obvious problem. If your immune system is damaged, in some way, it may not be able to detect the virus and/or produce antibodies to it. Either way, any technique for detecting HIV through the antibodies would fail."
You obviously have no grasp of immunology. HIV infects primarily subsets of T cells. They are not B cells, that produce soluble antibodies. B cells are not attacked by HIV,therefore you argument is bullshit.
(In fact, B cells are indirectly affected by HIV, but only in late stages of AIDS disease.)
"So much so that they could fight the disease and not even need to generate antibodies to do so."
You have no grasp of immunology,it's obvious now. Your body doesn't "feel the need" for antibodies.It just produces them when encounters an antigen. In fact, you probably already have cells with anti-HIV antibodies: they're just very,very few and are not activated.(Wanna know why? RTFM, i.e. a molecular immunology textbook)
"In theory, since we don't actually know in practice."
We know. Check other/. comments and what I wrote before.
"Provided the self-destruct triggers faster than the virus can spread"
It seems you know nothing about virology and apoptosis too...
"...you're probably not going to live very long anyway, and your quality of life isn't going to be noticably better than those with the disease. In fact, it would probably be a whole lot worse.
But, hey, if that's what these two women want for their life, that's their problem.
"
If these women were immunodeficient, physicians should have noticed it immediately. Such a severe immunodeficience is, like you seem to understand, practically incompatible with life.
-- --
Patent no.123456: A way to personalize/. comments with a sig attached to the end.
resistant, not immune
by
jeif1k
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· Score: 4, Informative
The women are more than likely "resistant" to HIV infection, not "immune" to it. While colloquially, the two terms may mean the same thing, the term "immune" suggests that they can't be infected by HIV because their immune system recognizes and destroys the virus. "Resistance" works by some mechanism other than an immune response.
the term "immune" suggests that they can't be infected by HIV because their immune system recognizes and destroys the virus
...or, the virus enters their system and is simply incapable of infecting cells for some reason. The HIV virus would still be there, but it'd be innocuous.
The parent post is incredibly clueless. HIV does not mutate all over the place. Someone mod it down.
In fact there is current research trying to identify common sequences to all mutations of HIV which do not appear elsewhere in the human body.
Caution would be advised.
by
Mortiss
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· Score: 1, Interesting
I would be cautious about such reports. Firstly, time and time again such claims are made about particular vaccine or group of people. There was even a case where promitent scientists were so convinced that they have created an attenuated HIV strain as a vaccince candidate, that they were ready to test it on themselves. Fortunatly, cooler heads prevailed and spared them from what was later shown to be a disaster.
As was mentioned before, the virus mutates rapidly and a single gene mutation can protect you for so long until virus finds a revertant mutation. So those ladies better not go and have too much fun, thinking that they are immune:)
Finally, this is not such a rare occurance to have certain protective mutations. Lots of people in Africa are certainly more resistant to HIV. However, unless a combination of those mutations is used in lets say anti-HIV gene therapy (which there is not much chance of) they are not very useful directly.
... Calling AIDS a disorder is a bit of a misunderstanding....
Finally updated the virus software
by
slashname3
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· Score: 1
I see that someone finally updated their virus software. Security experts have been telling everyone for years to keep their virus software updated. But does anyone listen? NOOOOOOOOOO!
Tell me it ain't so !
by
Taco+Cowboy
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· Score: 3, Funny
You sez:
"... it is linked directly to the ugly gene."
Say it ain't so, buddy.
If the human civilization succumbs to the AIDS epidemic, the NEW human civilization will have those two women as their MOTHERS.
-- Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
The human civilization won't succomb to AIDS. A lot of people will die, but (not to be callous here, don't take this the wrong way) mostly in third world countries. In first world countries it's a much smaller threat than cancer, obesity, et al.
Of course this is almost definately a joke, so why this got modded insightful is beyond me. That's what the funny mod is for... sheesh.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
tarunthegreat2
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· Score: 5, Insightful
You need to correct that even further. A greater NUMBER of people will die in the third-world, but even there, AIDS deaths are a very small PROPORTION of total deaths. People in the third-world are still dying from the "basics" - Hunger, Poverty, Diaorrhea, Cholera, TB, Malaria, e.t.c. Civilisation will end when we acknowledge George Bush as our Anointed God-On-Earth and (Shudder, Shiver) start pasting "What would W do?" on our car bumpers.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
mrchaotica
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· Score: 3, Insightful
There's no reason the entire human race would succumb to the AIDS epidemic, because it's entirely preventable. The only problem is educating people about the danger, and that's mostly solved in developed countries.
--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
mrchaotica
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· Score: 5, Insightful
I've heard figures that around 1/3 of the total population of some African countries are HIV positive. Granted, a bunch will get picked off by something else before AIDS has a chance to get them, but it's still a significant proportion. Besides, most AIDS-related deaths aren't due to the virus itself, but rather it weakening your immune system enough for something else to get you.
--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
tarunthegreat2
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· Score: 5, Insightful
You've picked a few African countries, and you're most likely correct about them. But I've used the blanket term Third-World - in response to the post above mine), which includes India and China (that's a minimum of 2 Billion people. AIDS prevalence in this entire group is much, much less than 1%). But starvation/malnutrition, and the other diseases I've mentioned are at least 10%. I think the priorties there are clear. Most western agencies, when talking about India and China always mention figures, but they neve talk about percentages. In India, according to official figures there are meant to 0.5 million people suffering from AIDs, and think it's double that in China, of course, these official figures are usually crap... however, let's assume they're double that number, that still is nothing compared to the number of people dying from other diseases/afflictions.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
AndroidCat
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· Score: 4, Funny
the NEW human civilization will have those two women as their MOTHERS.
Like Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, there is speculation that this has already happened...
"Yuck, me new woman have ugly flat brow and high forehead!"
"Then why you sleep with her?"
"She very inventive."
-- One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
SpamJunkie
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· Score: 2, Informative
most AIDS-related deaths aren't due to the virus itself, but rather it weakening your immune system enough for something else to get you.
That is in fact how everyone does from AIDS. A weak immune system isn't itself terminal, however, without defenses otherwise weak illnesses are life-threatening.
your an idiot, 100,0000's of poeple die in africa from AIDS and you come on here and say it's not terminal. crawl back into your middle america, white nobody hole.
-- If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
mrchaotica
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· Score: 1
Oh. I thought it was at least possible, though rare, for the AIDS virus to kill you itself (not that it makes a difference or anything...).
--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The virus never kills you, however there is as very common reperitory infection that many people have and never know about. This infection kills many people with AIDS since no one expects it, since everyone has it and it is easily beaten by our immune system.
That is what usually kills people when people say they were killed by the virus.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
once1er
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· Score: 2, Informative
hmm, most people who have contracted the virus don't actually die "of AIDS" they die of an infection, TB, the common cold. whatever you got. HIV and AIDS just beats up on the system so badly that it can't defend itself against anything else, and you die from the same thing the guy in aisle 3 is taking NyQuil for.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Danny+Rathjens
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Third-World [...], which includes India and China
I think it is time to officially retire the term "third world" since hardly anyone has a clue what it means and keeps making up their own definitions. I have to admit that including a communist country with nuclear weapons is the most imaginitive inclusion in the "third world" I've yet to see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world
Isn't it ironic?
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
cmallinson
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· Score: 1
hmm, most people who have contracted the virus don't actually die "of AIDS" they die of an infection...
The same is true for many cancer patients, as well as burn victims. In all of these cases, would you say that it was the infection that played the biggest role? My son almost died of an infection. It wasn't because he had an infection - it was because he was 1 pound.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
extensis
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· Score: 5, Informative
HIV is the virus, AIDS is the symptoms.
No you can never directly die from HIV, HIV only infects CD4 positive cells; ie, T-Helper Cells. Unfortunatly T-Helper Cells are nessecary for an active responsive immune system, without it, you quickly succumb to a multitude of usually harmless diseases that can kill, eg herpes...
some countries in africa the possibility of contracting HIV during your lifetime is now nearly 100% for teenagers.
Of course, the more modern terms now in use are "Developed, Developing and Less-Developed"...either way they're all stupid, because most statistics include Hong Kong and Singapore under 'developing' though frankly I think both city-states are developed, or at least Singapore is if you consider Hong Kong as just another part of China...
What developed countries are you talking about ? At least for Switzerland (which I would call a developed country) the problem is not solved. The number of infections is going up again. Knowing the danger is not enough... Of course, it is the first step...
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Associate
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· Score: 1
You forgot genocide, religious and tribal wars and being eaten by lions.
-- Someone hates these cans.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Associate
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· Score: 1
I would assume, as did the original parent post, that not being terminal was on the scale of human life as a whole, not individual life, which is still unfortunate. Take the Bubonic Plague, for example. It had the potential to destroy humanity, due to the lack of technology, specifically the knowledge of how it was transmitted. We know how AIDS is transmitted. And we have the technology to do more than prevent the spread. It's the lack of delivery of the much needed supplies and education in the third world that is killing it. I would also hope that the original parent doesn't think that people deserve to die of AIDS, or any other debilitating disease.
-- Someone hates these cans.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Rob+Nance
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· Score: 2, Funny
It's not just the first step, it's half the battle!
Go Joe!
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
... the correct term is LEDC (Less Economically Developed Country)... as opposed to MEDC.
Third World... what do they live on some moon?
Sheesh
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
"Wait, Tommy, you're not going to put your dick in that girl are you?"
"Yeah, why?"
"Not without a condom you're not!"
"But condoms are a drag!"
"Yes, but they also keep your pecker from falling off!"
"Really?"
"Yup! Not only that, if you knock this girl up you're life will be practically over! So here, put this on!"
"Thanks! Now I know!"
"...And knowing is half the battle! YO JOE!"
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Old+Wolf
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· Score: 2, Insightful
You missed the biggest point -- HIV is contagious and incurable. The number of people dying from starvation etc. will stay roughly in proportion to the population, but the HIV base will continue to grow and grow if nothing is done. There was a time in the past (maybe only 15-20 years ago) when African countries had 1% HIV and N % starvation (for some large value of N), look at them now.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
severoon
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Yea, it's not the bullet that kills you...it's the sudden displacement of brain matter to nonfunctional locations (such as all over the wall). What you are saying makes perfect sense.
-- but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Anonymous+Writer
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Take the Bubonic Plague, for example. It had the potential to destroy humanity, due to the lack of technology, specifically the knowledge of how it was transmitted.
Coincidentally, there is a correlation between the distribution of this mutant gene in populations and the bubonic plague. It is speculated that its high concentration in Caucasians is a result of it's ability to resist the black death.
"The only problem is educating people about the danger, and that's mostly solved in developed countries."
Wrong, it's far from solved when the vatican are 'educating' people regarding condoms and saying that they don't prevent the spread of Aids (http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,10590 68,00.html).
"There's no reason the entire human race would succumb to the AIDS epidemic, because it's entirely preventable. The only problem is educating people about the danger, and that's mostly solved in developed countries."
So how come HIV infection rates in developed countries are still increasing?
If you're trying to say that starvation will grow in a roughly linear fashion with the population but HIV infection will grow on an upward curve, then don't you want to assign the static percent to the starvation number and the variable N to the HIV infected populace?
-- Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
geekpolitico
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· Score: 5, Insightful
It is easy to say that education will solve the problem, but that doesn't even work in the US. Many people know of the dangers of AIDS and yet still have unprotected sex. It is stupid, but they do it. And this is in a country with relatively high ability to pass the protection/abstinence memes.
In Africa there are massive cultural and practical barriers in place. It is much much harder to transmit this information widely, and there are strong cultural biases against abstinence/protection. The most sickening cultural belief is that having sex with a virgin cures you of AIDS. This is especially bad because between the long standing beliefs and the fact that people are sexually active younger there, the only virgins are very young children or babies. It's fairly horrifying.
It will take a lot of time, effort and money to bring the AIDS crisis under control in Africa. President Bush was wise (for once) to commit billions to fighting the problem there. He was also wise to recommend that the program have an abstinence element to it. The Uganda program that contained an abstinence element was unusually successful in fighting AIDS in that country. I only wish he had lived up to his commitment by actually funding it at the level he promised.
My parents spent the last 3 years living in Lesotho (the country inside of S. Africa), so they've spent a lot of time discussing this with the local Peace Corps volunteers. It is fairly discouraging, but very important that we do something about it.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
BlueTooth
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· Score: 1
Fortunately, we have this great technology called natural selection. It may sound very inhumane of me, but if there are diseases that our medicine can't cure, then the good ol' natural selection mechanism will kick in and immune "mutants" will start surviving these diseases.
"...No you can never directly die from HIV, HIV only infects CD4 positive cells..."
Bwahaha! That's like saying, "No, you can never directly die from the knife some crack head just stabbed you with, the knife only irreparably lacerates a major organ which, unfortunately, is necessary for life. Without it functioning correctly, you quickly succumb to a multitude of complications that can kill."
According to your reasoning on causality, it would then seem absurd to brand a felon someone who intentionally infected another person with HIV. Afterall, you can never directly die from HIV...
So don't have promiscuous unprotected sex. Why do you think in the US and other industrialized nations HIV is such a small(but scary) cause of death. Treatment to extend life, understanding that HIV is not curable and thusly with the exception of some really sick people, individuals who are aware of being HIV positive don't go around molesting virgins in the belief that it will miraculously cure their disease.
HIV isn't airborne, or salivaborne. you must have blood to blood or sexual contact to pass it.
Outside of the developing/third/non-industrialized world. people with HIV don't go around trying to pass it on.
-- Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
the only thing that prevents the spread of HIV is not having bodily fluid contact with an infected person and Condoms don't absolutely prevent that. they reduce risk by 50-90% depending on a wide variety of factors, but they don't PREVENT the spread of AIDS.
-- Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
It is disturbing to hear the opinions of some people from the Ivory Coast on the matter of AIDS. It isn't that a lot of them don't know about it. I've heard a doctor there say people consider themselves lucky to die of AIDS. They say there are so many reasons people die over there, if AIDS finally gets them it means they must have had a pretty long life. So that is there justification for continuing to use niddles on 5 patients before tossing them.
It really is sad that there are still places in this world that have to think that way.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Jason+Hood
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· Score: 2, Interesting
some countries in africa the possibility of contracting HIV during your lifetime is now nearly 100% for teenagers.
Whats sad is this is a preventable disease. There is so much misinformation going around in africa about the disease that know one knows how to easy it is to prevent it. The most disturbing being if you have sex with a virgin, you will be cured of HIV. Thousands of young girls each year are raped on that information alone.
There is a distinct difference between preventable diseases and curable diseases. In my opnion we should put more focus on preventing the disease than we do now. Its similar to how the US and other countries are now launching large scale infomercials on smoking. A cure to cancer and HIV would be wonderful one day but we can do something right now to prevent people from exposing themselves to both.
-- Are you intolerant of intolerant people?
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Deliveranc3
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· Score: 1
Beauty is relative.
If everyone came from ugly women then we would think it normal, whatever the results.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
untaken_name
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· Score: 1
Outside of the developing/third/non-industrialized world. people with HIV don't go around trying to pass it on.
What about:
Darnell "Boss Man" McGee Nushawn Williams Pamela Wiser Roy Cornes and, of course, "patient zero" Gaetan Dugas
Plus, there was an episode of Law and Order where this was going on, so it *must* be true.
It is easy to say that education will solve the problem, but that doesn't even work in the US. Many people know of the dangers of AIDS and yet still have unprotected sex.
Yes, but while that's true, it's also true that many people don't. Enough people that you don't have to worry about AIDS wiping out the entire population.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
untaken_name
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· Score: 1
I know you said that, I was just tweaking you a bit. Apologies if I offended.
Psh, what is this, the 1200s? How Earth-centric. It's more PC these days to call Earth the "third world." The first is, of course, Mercury.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
Godai
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· Score: 3, Informative
Actually, AIDS is a far bigger problem than you give it credit for namely because it FEEDS the problems you think of bigger.
My father is the chairman of the Canadian branch larger organization that deals with children worldwide. As part of that mandate they have come to view AIDS as perhaps THE greatest problem that they have to deal with.
Basically, AIDS creates widows and orphans. And widows & orphans cause more poverty & more starvation. Not just because THEY are starving or poor, but because it robs their country of productive people and potentially productive people. You really see this in the schools. In countries like Tanzania & Zambia, they're losing teachers to AIDS faster than they can train them! Obviously this translates into less educated people, and that ultimately translates into fewer teachers (among many other things). And the cycle continues.
My father's been to many countries over there to see the problem first hand. In some places, it IS getting better. But very, very, slowly. Other places it's just getter worse every day.
I had the opportunity to go over in May 2004 and I spent 10 days in Zambia & Tanzania (the latter is making better headway). I can say that the problem is as bad as my father & his organization think, and it's far worse than most people in the West have any clue about. It's easy to talk about numbers, but it's a lot harder to put a value on the social and personal costs...and those are enormous.
Worst though, it was goddamn frustrating. My overreaching emotion throughout the trip was anger. Because by and large the people in those countries were getting better! All those old clichés about how poor and hungry the African countries may have been true, but they were starting to get out from under that; you could see it. But then AIDS kicked them right in the teeth and it's like watching someone who'd started to crawl out of quicksand start to slide back. It's disheartening.
AIDS has probably set the continent back 15 years. And that'll probably get worse. In Zambia, I think there are 10 MILLION orphans. 10 million!!! That's a goddamn 1/3 of the population of Canada!
And, of course, even if scientists manage to isolate a gene that prevents the infection, and bottle it, and distribute it, Africa will be the last place on earth that gets it. Because they're in debt already and have little money anyways. Hell, it costs US$3 for a pill that reduces the chances that a baby born from a mother with HIV will also have HIV to less than 10%...and most of the people there can't afford it. Or worse, can but don't know about it because the people there who have them can't afford to educate the people about it. And so it spreads:(
-- Wood Shavings!
- Godai
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
jdclucidly
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I'm so angry about your short rant that I could spit. (And shame on you moderators.) But instead of throwing a fit, I'm going to spell it out for you very clearly starting with the most aggrecious of your claims:
I know that stopping the transmission works. HIV patients need quarrantined (home bound etc) for their own protection from secondary diseases. Even treating them in the Hospital is a threat to their safety. They will not spread HIV and we don't need to treat them for the horrid illnesses they get when their failed immune systems contact the general world about them. Suggesting otherwise is to deny them the general protection of reverse isolation quarrantine that we do for other immuno compromised patients such as chemo therapy and transplant patients.
Having been HIV+ for three years, and expecting to be so for the rest of my (possibly short) life, as I'm sure and expert like you is so aware, HIV and AIDS are two medical conditions. I expect to be free from the symptoms of AIDS for at least another ten years. Your comments here expose a profound misunderstanding of how HIV works, immuno reponse works, and the variety of drugs that can keep HIV/AIDS folks out of the red zone for a very long time. Indeed is was true 20 years ago that HIV meant extreme immuno vulnerablility but that is no longer the case.
And for being an expert, somewhere along the way you, apparently, missed the class on medical ethics in which you would have learned that the central edict of medicine is increasing the quality of life for its recipients.
I don't know what kind of Nazi fantasy world you live in but there is no way in hell you are going to put me under house arrest 'for my protection' so that you feel safer when you don't know where your children are or who they are doing. The very notion that we can social engineer sexual exposure out of our society is nieve at best and disturbed at worst.
If I were to suggest that playing in the sewer was lots of fun and simply tell the kids that putting on rubber boots created "safe sewer play" equipment you would find me a dispicable person when I lead a booted class of kids into the sewers to play. There are activities and behaviors that are inherently dangerous and destructive. Making counter argument does not change the facts that these are dangerous.
It sounds like you've been reading so Christian-right pro-abstainance bullshit. Your analogy fails in two ways:
People aren't compelled by their very nature to go play in the sewer. As you may recall (if you can see through the hazy of your ideolgoy), as a young boy you were compelled automatically to desire sex.
Boots do not sheath the vulnerable parts of your body (mouth and nose) from the air born bacteria in a sewer. Condoms sheath the vunerable parts of your body (penis, vagina, rectum) from the fluid born viri with which people are be concerned. To suggest otherwise does a disservice to those who engage in sexual activity because their will is weak and who would choose not to use protection because of your lies.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
trentblase
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· Score: 1
That's like saying you can't directly die from liver failure. You're really dying from all the toxins that your liver is no longer removing from your bloodstream. If HIV destroys all your cells that are necessary for life under normal conditions, then it killed you.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
bleckywelcky
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· Score: 1
"some countries in africa the possibility of contracting HIV during your lifetime is now nearly 100% for teenagers."
If this includes contracting HIV at birth from your mother, that's a separate category. But, if this assumes that at age 0, 0% have HIV, then there's a simple solution: stop running around having sex with everyone! These people are just ignorant and either a) don't know that sex can transmit HIV or b) don't care. I'm 21 and haven't had sex yet because I'm scared shitless of contracting HIV or some other STD (even living in the US). Almost every person my age that I know is a sex-craving lunatic (to one extent or another) running around having sex with every other person they can find. You think I'm gonna risk it all and jump in the mix?
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
shawn(at)fsu
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· Score: 1
It's simply incredible that with all our knowledge we can still be some dumb...
Like people who wont wear seatbelts because they say they cause more injuries than they prevent only worse.
It's got some cruel joke. We know what causes it we know how to prevent it and we still have people that won't take the precautions because it's not as fun. It boggles my mind. It's not like you have to abstain from it, just use a thin membrane of latex. I simply can't fathom how some people can be so primal as to abandon all sense of logic and reason just to do something that feels good.
-- 500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
IMO the WHO is irresponsible by suggesting anything other than abstinence to stop the spread of this "pandemic" which isn't since pandemic means global and affecting all which would require over a 10fold increase in persons affected. It isn't an epidemic anywhere but those places where individuals with HIV continue to practice promiscuous sexual activity.
Using a condom just isn't good enough. a 1 in 10 chance of failure and you would stop using your car, your OS, or your security system, but people continue to use condoms for other than birth control and that is just plain foolish.
a 1in6 chance of death is called russian Roulette and a 1 in 10 is called "safe sex".
-- Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
nosphalot
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· Score: 1
Why is it that everyone always uses this excuse? Yes, it kills the sensation, but sex with a condom is still more fun than death last time I checked. And you don't even have to use the condom forever, once you've found a steady partner and have established they are clean, and not having unprotected sex with others, then you can have all the sensation you want.
It will take a lot of time, effort and money to bring the AIDS crisis under control in Africa. President Bush was wise (for once) to commit billions to fighting the problem there. He was also wise to recommend that the program have an abstinence element to it. The Uganda program that contained an abstinence element was unusually successful in fighting AIDS in that country. I only wish he had lived up to his commitment by actually funding it at the level he promised.
The money Bush earmarked was for US drug companies to provide drugs to Africa. This is why it is just a money grab by the pharmaceuticals. People need education, not drugs.
And preeching abstinence alone does not work. People are hard-wired to have sex. Period. You must provide complete knowledge of *how* HIV is spread. Telling people that abstinence will prevent HIV without telling them the whole story is almost useless.
It's at 1/3 of the population which is fairly stable.
let's say 5% of people under 14 have AIDS.
Mostly from breastfeeding from mothers with AIDS.
And by age 20 70% of the population got AIDS.
What % of the population would die from aids by 35?
VS: starvation, or homiside?
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
JohnFluxx
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· Score: 1
In re to your nick... thanks! At long last that saying makes sense!
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
JohnFluxx
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· Score: 1
In re to your sig... thanks! At long last that saying makes sense!
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
andybee
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Why do people always pull out the Nazi card?
In any case, it is a given fact that HIV could be wiped from the face of the earth in one generation. The real question is, would you still engage in sex with the person if you knew they were HIV+? Condoms may lower the rate of transmission, but it's not a magic sheath that will offer infallible protection. It's like skydiving without a reserve parachute...you'll probably be safe...but it only takes one thing to go wrong and it's all over.
My 2 cents.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
jdclucidly
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· Score: 1
In this case the Nazi analogy was right on target. Eugenics, anyone?
You sadly oversimplify the matter of risk. My partner has chosen to take his 0.001% risk that one of the times that we have sex the condom will have a construction flaw that will cause it to break. However, since we humans have these wonderful things called eyes, we examine the condom before we continue.
If a small cut in the condom were to go undetected, the probability that an infection would result is still low as the cut would have to be exactly at the tip and the flaw would have to be so pronounced that it would allow a (relatively) large amount of fluid to be exchanged.
In any event, he has made that choice because the benefit of happiness between us out-weight the chance that he will become infected. People make choices of this nature all the time.
And please stop characterizing condoms as non-functional. If you have some scientific data to back up your belief I would love to see it.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
darkmeridian
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· Score: 2, Insightful
This post will sound like flamebait, but it isn't. Just consider it carefully. I am not a religious person at all, so this isn't some scary Christian-right crap you claim.
Most HIV infection cases come from preventable activity, such as unprotected sex or drug use without sterilized needles. Rare are those who are infected through a accidental needlestick or blood transfusion. We have to get people to get condoms before they have sex. Because you are right in assuming that most people want sex. We have to accomodate nature, but this can be done through safer sex.
Furthermore, most infected people with HIV do not know that they are infected for a while. The initial symptoms are flu-like. Then nothing happens, basically, until they come down with AIDS, which is a catch-all term meaning when symptoms present, such as secondary infections, etc.
In the meantime, they are continuing those activities that got them infected, such as drug use, unprotected sex, etc. These are all preventable infections, as you admit. They could wear condoms, they could bleach their needles. There is a moral dimension that seems to interject itself here, but ignore that and look at the essential fact: most infected people were doing risky things and they will continue doing it. Does this mean they deserve it? No. Does it mean they are not stricken with a contagious, deadly plague? No.
What are we going to do? Medicine can only treat HIV, not cure it. The majority of the infected will eventually die of AIDS, not with AIDS. Society should not hold its breath waiting for a cure for the disease. It has to be socially removed from circulation.
Why shouldn't we isolate those with HIV infections? Again, this sounds like flamebait, but think about it. We isolated lepers and smallpox and polio victims because we had to save lives. We had to sacrifice the ill to save the healthy. Political correctness did not matter in face of this crucial need to save the lives of the young. Remember what we did for SARS and West Nile and the hantavirus, in terms of isolation in the United States. Consider that HIV/AIDS is essentially a hundred percent lethal.
However, HIV/AIDS has been seen as a "gay" illness that causes it to be treated differently from other deadly plagues. There is nothing further from the truth; it is a human problem that cuts across all facets, gay and straight, black and white, men and women. It kills. It spreads. Period. It should be treated as such. Testing should be mandatory and then we should isolate the infected.
Is this cruel? Of course. Is it inhuman? I would say so. But the politically correct alternative is to allow those with HIV/AIDS to keep spreading it and kill more people. Because they will not stop. Most do not know they are infected. They got infected not because they were terrible people, but they got infected because they were doing risky things. They are likely to continue these acts. They have to be stopped. That this somewhat aligns itself with religious thoughts on morality is an unfortunate intersection. On a purely utilitarian scale, a strong argument can be made to isolate the sick.
Is this a "Nazi-fantasy world"? No. In a fantasy world, we would not get sick. But we do not live there. We live on this place called Earth where innocents die. Sacrifices have to be made. So while we can promote social change, people will never do what is necessary to truly remove AIDS from society.
Probably a lot of the mindset comes from being of an older crowd. In my day...only thing you had to worry about was getting her pregnant. And I'm not generally worried that much still with women that are in may age group. Many have just recently come out of long marriages, etc...so, have a pretty good sense of their 'cleanliness'. However, with much younger girls...yeah, I use one most of the time.
Not looking for a steady partner...now THAT's really no fun...and you lose stimulation that way too...
:-)
-- Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
jdclucidly
·
· Score: 1
A lot of the information was incorrect, but not unexpected, your own response proved your are just as much an ignorant ass and idiot.
Okay, we're off to a rocky start but maybe you will prove your ad hominum point...
You're pissed because you got a deadly disease that was preventable and may die by your actions. You don't like someone being truthful about it
That's an interesting claim but unsubstatiated. You don't know me.
So you go and call them Nazi-like. How educated your are. Asshole.
He suggests putting all HIV+ people under house arrest and you call me an asshole?
re condom coverage--Liar. You know better. As any STAT ([Medical but not always] Students Teaching AIDS [education] to [high school] Students)...
"Students" starts with a "S", not a "T" but if you say this supposed group exists, whatever...
person knows from their first group sitdown on talks, and indeed any HIV school advisor or adolescent caretaker should know, condoms do NOT cover ALL VULNERABLE parts. Now, maybe you didn't do the sex thing right and you don't know this. Coverage isn't about parts. Coverage is about FLUIDS. It's FLUID TRANSFER. Usually, this is through the sex organs, but condoms themselves are not great at coverage. If you're male, put one on; the base, scrotum, etc. are not covered. This was one of the major things going for the female condom; it had better coverage for the female. This is why dams{sp} are used during oral sex (if you don't have a damn, cut any additional condoms you have and unroll flat).
Hum, so you're claiming that fluids penetrate the epidermis? So, I guess that you're really claiming that you believe that casual contact with an HIV+ person is dangerous. Somehow I don't think that this claim is substantiated and you'd be hard-pressed to find any medical doctor that agreed with you. Furth, a dental dam is to protect your exposed mucous membranes in your mouth. However, there has been only one documented HIV infection in the entire history of study of the disease. It sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.
re medical ethics--You're no doctor yourself (I'm not one either). The central dogma is do no harm. Even so-called laypersons (general population, average Joe) know this. It is NOT to improve life. Indeed, that very tenet is secondary.
Debatable; but either way it does nothing to bolster your arguments here.
If the tenet was to improve life, that would be hugely problematic, as that would the REASON to enforce quarantines, create mandatory testing, rip parents from their children, and create a second class of humans in name as well as societal treatment.
Slipery slope argument. Invalidated.
All in all, this ethics discussion points to the difficulty when you classify things as Christian or left wing or what not. People become misinformed. "Do no harm" which was more like the previous poster, if implemented now, would drastically reduce the spread of HIV. People would get tested, treated, and reveal their conditions. It's the folks spreading them, living their lives, who are killing.
I fail to see how "do no harm" substantiates a doctrine of compulsory quarantine. HIV+ is not air born and is not spread through casual contact. I do no harm to anyone by being allowed to go to work, go to school and pay my taxes. You used slipery slope here again making these broad unsubstantiated claims without connecting statement A to statement B.
But presently, it is not the answer as that mentality is not prevalent in our society, as you so readily indicate in your own post.
Right, I'm glad that everyone doesn't jump to conclusions as quickly as you do here.
And no, it is not a loss of privacy issue; you can be HIV positive and not have to reveal any of it if you lived in a manner which protected your partners.
When/where did privacy enter the conversation? I'm rebutting a person's claim that putting all HIV+ persons under "house arrest" is logical. You do know what "house arrest" is, right?
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
jdclucidly
·
· Score: 1
So, what you're saying is essentially: "Those HIV people keep going around spreading HIV because they don't know they have it; we should quarantine them so they don't do that."
Not to be too simplistic but, uh, how are you going to know someon is HIV+ if they don't know?
And please stop characterizing condoms as non-functional. If you have some scientific data to back up your belief I would love to see it.
Data from a report by the National Institute of Alergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health, and Department of Health and Human Serives.
Summary of HIV info: "consistent condom use decreased the risk of HIV/AIDS transmission by approximately 85%"
So, no, not non-functional. They also aren't 99.999% effective, as you claim.
-- "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
jdclucidly
·
· Score: 1
"For example, if a condom breaks during intercourse, the associated volume of fluid leaking out of the condom is estimated to be approximately one-third of the total ejaculate, i.e., about 1 ml. Therefore, assuming a 2% breakage or slippage rate during actual use, the relative risk of semen exposure from the infrequent condom breakage (compared to using no condom at all) would be.006 (1 ml × 2/100 ÷ 3.3 ml).
For example, if a condom breaks during intercourse, the associated volume of fluid leaking out of the condom is estimated to be approximately one-third of the total ejaculate, i.e., about 1 ml. Therefore, assuming a 2% breakage or slippage rate during actual use, the relative risk of semen exposure from the infrequent condom breakage (compared to using no condom at all) would be.006 (1 ml × 2/100 ÷ 3.3 ml)."
So, actually, that report supports my claims. The statistic you cite is the probability of infection in those that claim to always use condoms. There's a difference.
They are both 'static percents' at any one point in time, but I write 'N' because I have no idea what an accurate value is (replace 'N' by '30%' if that would make you happier).
HIV is a very unique disease with a most difficult set of transmission routes requiring definite HUMAN intervention for these to be achieved.
Sex is difficult? Oh yeah, this is Slashdot..
Every time HIV spreads we find people engaging in behaviors which we know spread the disease.
Sex is a biological imperative of all animals. Maybe your attitude would change if you got some. Oh wait, is it beneath your lofty moral high horse? [In other words, any attempt at prevention which involves restriction of sex, is doomed to fail before it even starts]
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
cluckshot
·
· Score: 1
I didn't compare to a vagina! Read into it what ever you will but I didn't make that comparison.
-- Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts
If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
Attempts to categorize regions according to their "main problem" lack a necessary insight, which is that AIDS and hunger and poverty (and MANY other thgings) are extremely interrelated issues. They help cause each other, through a variety of means that are obvious enough with a little educated thought. There is often no "root cause," rather only a synergy of problems that may come to a head in one form or another. So the question becomes... where does one start? I would propose that any attempt to alleviate a *single* affliction is doomed to failure: that without utilizing a multidisciplinary approach to solve as many as possible of such interrelated issues as AIDS and poverty, any effort, no matter how well-funded or well-intentioned, is is a short-lived band-aid.
Re:Tell me it ain't so !
by
strider44
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· Score: 1
AIDS itself cannot possibly kill you. It is not a terminal desease. AIDS is an immune system deficiency syndrome. In other words the reason why it's so dangerous is that your immune system is depreciated to a point where it can't function anymore, so other deseases can easily infect you, make you seriously ill and even kill you. In western civilization this isn't mostly life-threatening because you if you don't contract the deseases in the first place they can't hurt you, and through antibiotics and western medicine most of the times you get sick can be treated before it gets to the stage where it's fatally dangerous. A lot of people who have AIDS live long lives.
The reason why so many people die in Africa is that the lack of western paranoid hygene means that getting exposed to virii is quite common and because doctors aren't available even a common cold is deadly. However for the purposes of this conversation we're not assuming that everyone lives in Africa, and, since the purposes of my previous statement was to refute the claim that if everyone in the world contracted aids then everyone in the world would die unless they had that mutant gene,
Apart from the fact that I don't live in America (let along "middle america", whatever you mean by that), I do actually know what I'm talking about, and I do have friends who have contracted AIDS.
This is hardly newsworthy, much less some kind of breakthrough. The gene this article talks about has been known for years in other (caucasian) countries. They still have not managed to use it for a cure.
And now they found it in china. No big deal...
----------
Unless you happen to be...
by
Nick+Driver
·
· Score: 3, Funny
Trust me, that abrupt "stoppage" usually lasts much, much longer than nine months...
Unless you happen to be Catholic:-)
Re:Unless you happen to be...
by
Mikmorg
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· Score: 1
Actually in order for the HIV infect a cell, it must bind to some receptors present in the cell membrane.
Among those receptors are CD-4 and CCR-5.
You can read more about it here.
And if you thought only us computer geeks could speak unintelligible lingo, here is a proof you were wrong:
CD4 is a 55kd cell surface molecule found on a subset of T lymphocytes utilizing MHC class II antigens as a restriction element for antigen recognition.The mature CD4 protein consists of consists of a 372 amino acid extracellular segment composed of four tandem immunoglobulin-like VJ regions, a 23 amino acid transmembrane domain, and a 33 amino acid cytoplasmic segment. The cDNA sequence is composed 1742 base pairs and 450 amino acids are present in the mature protein. The CD4 locus maps to 12p12-pter and contains 10 exons. CD stands for "cluster of differentiation" and and CD4 is the official destination for the T cell antigen T4/leu3.
--
- Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
Re:It seems unlikely.
by
Chucklz
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· Score: 5, Informative
Umm no.
Grab an Immunology text and get busy.
HIV begins by infecting CCR5+ CXCR4+ CD4+ T cells. B cells are the cells that produce antibodies, not T cells. Early in infection T-h cells are capable of activating B cells, with a corresponding increase of cytokine production (partially responsible for the early "flu" symptoms associated with infection). Early in infection there is a sharp increase in circulating IgG and IgA, so an ELISA/Western blot test for circulating antibodies is certainly justified.
How would a body fight HIV. Well even late infection, CD8+ cytotoxic T lymphocytes are still present, albeit in an impaired state due to an impaired generative ability. So, your body can still kill HIV infected cells. This does not even take into account the role of the complement pathway, which will be active at least through mid stage infection, and late stage in some patients.
The immune system collapse is due to a loss of Th cells, which are required to modulate the B cell response, and of course Th cytokines are absolutely essential for the functioning of the rest of the immune system. Without these cells, the immune system doesn't do much, let alone fight itself. Where are all the deaths from anaphylaxis, and other hyper immune responses?
The way that people are immune to HIV involves HIV entry into Th cells. Individuals with either a modified CCR5 or CXCR4 surface molecule do not support normal HIV entry into T cells. So, no entry, no infection. For your apoptosis suggestion, first learn exactly what apoptosis involves, and how viral replication works. If a cell goes apoptotic with even a few assembled viruses in its cytosol, they will spread.
You must have a pathetically weak knowledge of the iummune system (or none at all).
There's so much wrong with this post, it's hard to know where to begin.
HIV is detected in a number of ways, but probably the most common way is to detect the antibodies to the virus. This causes an obvious problem.
Screening for HIV is typically a cheap, fast antibody-based test. However, any positive is then confirmed via much more specific tests.
The only way to be immune, then... you must have a pathetically weak immune system (or none at all)
WTF do you think HIV does? What does the I in AIDS stand for? HIV doesn't kill people; opportunistic infections kill people whose immune systems are compromised by HIV.
This is like calling a pair of cement shoes in a swimming pool of cyanide "protective" against cyanide poisoning because it'll only take a couple minutes to drown.
Our immune system is actually quite effective at fighting HIV. That's why the symptoms associated with seroconversion last only a few days, and then people end up living a number of years before finally being overwhelmed.
Suggesting that starting off with an immunodeficiency is somehow better than waiting for HIV to give you one is, I think, the most ridiculous bit of interesting/insightfully-moderated random Slashdot speculation I've read in at least 45 minutes.
But, hey, if that's what these two women want for their life, that's their problem.
Nice.
Those are SUPER WOMEN!
by
Gentlewhisper
·
· Score: 1
BURNS Oh, hello, friends. I'm Montgomery Burns, your next governor, and I'm here to talk to you about my little friend here, Blinky. (picks up fishbowl with Blinky in) Many of you consider it to be a hideous genetic mutation. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. But don't take my word for it. Let's ask an actor portraying Charles Darwin what he thinks. (actor enters)
DARWIN Hello, Mr. Burns.
BURNS Oh, hello, Charles. Be a good fellow and tell our viewers about your theory of natural selection.
DARWIN Glad to, Mr. Burns. You see, every so often, Mother Nature changes our animals, giving them bigger teeth, sharper claws, longer legs or, in this case, a third eye. And if the variations turn out to be an improvement, the new animals thrive and multiply, and spread across the face of the earth.
BURNS So you're saying this fish might actually have an advantage over other fish? It might actually be a kind of "Super Fish".
Those women will thrive and multiply, and spread across the face of the earth!
Even the statement about putting the "gene" in the vagina or rectum is not new: see microbicides.
Just a word to the wise, news like this will rarely, if ever, scoop a scientific publication in Science or Nature. If the discoveries truly have any scientific merit whatsoever, you'll more likely read about it in these journals or the media commotion stirred by these publications. In other words, unless somewhere in the article is says "results of these studies published in the journal [place name of journal here]," the results have not been peer reviewed. Therefore, "there's nothing to see here, move on."
This is the "long-term non-progressor" issue
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Interesting
A mutation that seems to prevent AIDS progression has been known for a while. There's a very small number of people who are HIV-positive but do not develop AIDS symptoms, even over decades. The mutation seems to inhibit the process that causes T-cell death. This small group is very heavily studied.
Early this year, some work at Rockefeller University looked promising, but then came a retraction.
A lab technique problem made the results look better than they were. Work continues to try to unscramble this mess. Because there are so few people showing this kind of immunity, it's hard to figure out what's really going on.
These people are benign carriers; i.e. they can infect others. This isn't like a vaccine response.
Come to Asia and taste it, buddy !
by
Taco+Cowboy
·
· Score: 5, Informative
You sez:
"culturally Asians seem to be a lot less
promiscuous, which would imply that this
disaster doesn't seem so imminent"
This is so only to show others.
Asian culture is at its best in the sex scene.
On one hand, they will pretend that they are not sexually promiscuous, and on the other hand, the vast majority of Child Prostitution in the world happen throughout Asian countries. You can find child prostitutes in Indonesia, China, India, Kampuchia (formerly known as Cambodia), Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Taiwan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Hong Kong, The Philippines, Malaysia and so on.
If you are willing to pay, you can even participate in the "deflowering" act, where you'd get a virgin child - male or female - for his / her first night.
What you do to them, as long as you don't kill them, is entirely up to you.
-- Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Re:Come to Asia and taste it, buddy !
by
jb.hl.com
·
· Score: 2, Funny
You seem to know slightly too much on the subject there.
-- By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
Re:Come to Asia and taste it, buddy !
by
WIAKywbfatw
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· Score: 3, Informative
You can find child prostitutes in any country in the world, including the US, UK, France, Germany, Austrailia, etc. It's not a problem that's unique to Asia, so don't try to paint it that way, please.
--
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Re:Come to Asia and taste it, buddy !
by
EulerX07
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· Score: 1
True. Some people need to think for a second about what pimps do when they run across needy teenage runaways in North America.
Hint : They don't drive 'em back to their parent's house.
Probably easier on their mind to think it's only elsewhere that this happens.
Re:Come to Asia and taste it, buddy !
by
dreadlocks
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· Score: 1
er... so you've been told, right?
Natural Selection at Work - Darwin would be happy
by
DJ+Zany
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Surely this is just the process of natural selection.
Cast aside the concept of gene manipulation and mass media to inform people of the risks of HIV, and you would end up with some of the population immune and living, and the rest dead.
Therefore the human race would have evolved to be immune to HIV.
So back to genes and media, have we evolved so far that we are further helping evolution, or are putting it at risk by stopping natural selection?
I disagree. It's just a theory, but men who've never had much success with women may be more likely to hire a prostitute. With all the employment problems in the IT sector lately, they may hire cheap prostitutes, who are even more likely to be infected.
Hehe and its so nice being able to understand every word of that:P
Not that simple
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Well just so you understand, Africans are not simply running around having sex with everyone they see and contracting AIDS. A number of factors including a poor medical system, infected medicinal needles, and contaminated blood have also played a role in many of the infection cases. Exactly, how big of a role is debatable, but I have seen some estimates from studies conducted here in the US that concluded that as much as 60% of the current number of AIDS cases in Africa can be attributed to those factors. If the Middle Eastern and Asian countries do not mitigate those same factors, an epidemic would occur regardless of perceived promiscuity.
I read something similiar in time magazine last year about a tribe of women in africa who had a similiar mutant gene.. anyone else hear/read about it?
-- God is real unless declared as int
No such thing as race in science
by
Magickcat
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· Score: 3, Interesting
It's interesting that the mutation has been found in the Asian population, but I'm concerned that the article places an emphasis on ideas of race, which has been an obsolete scientific term since genetic research in the 1940s and 50s.
Race and the idea of race have are not medical ideas. The reason why so many Europeans (not merely Caucasians) have one or two copies of the mutant gene is because of the bottle neck of the black plague throughout Europe. It afforded them some or cmplete resistance to it. It is entirely possible that the Chinese people found to have the gene may have these ancestors themselves. As Chinese "asians" are just as much a mix of people from different places as "caucasians".
There is no scientific basis for ideas of race whatsoever - we are all homo sapiens.
Of all the genes in human being, about 75 per cent are identical in every person; only 25 per cent vary from person to person. And of that variable amount, 85 per cent of the difference would be present even if the two people were fairly closely related; that is, an ethnic subgroup, like Norwegians. Another 9 per cent of the genetic variation will result from individuals being members of separate nations or tribes within a "race"--a Spaniard and an Italian, for example. And only about 6 per cent is the result of the two people being from what we call separate races. Any person's race accounts for only about 0.24 per cent (or 6 per cent of 25 per cent) of his genetic make-up. Info taken from here.
--
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses.
If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Re:No such thing as race in science
by
maxpublic
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· Score: 1
Mr. Gardner got it wrong. Approximately 99% of the genes in every human being are IDENTICAL; only the other 1% vary.
I think the mixup here is that Mr. Gardner heard "75% of all genes are identical in every person" when in fact it should've been something like "75% of all the genes that SEPARATE HUMAN BEINGS FROM OTHER PRIMATES are identical", etc. Everything else from that point on makes sense.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
they're not the first
by
asdren
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I saw a show on PBS that discussed the Plague and how some medievals didn't die when infected. It then went to discuss a gay man who was HIV resistant. the guy must've felt like a highlander - all his friends kept dying off and he expected to die off also but though infected with HIV it never
HIV mutates so fast, how long before super-HIV?
by
louisykarma
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· Score: 1
If HIV mutates so fast, why wouldn't some sort of super-HIV exist? Why doesn't HIV mutate every other time some often into some non-sexually transmitted form (maybe airborne,) easy spreading as common cold, and/or with a latent period of weeks instead of years?
I guess it would only make for isolated outbursts, like Ebola or West Nile, but why no outbursts yet?
Re:HIV mutates so fast, how long before super-HIV?
by
Vegeta99
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· Score: 1
Dude, you just jinxed the hell out of the human race by saying that. I'm gonna hunt you down when it happens.
That is plausible. However, would you actually need the receptor to be open? HIV is a retrovirus, and functions by embedding itself into a DNA strand, unlike most viruses which use other mechanisms for copying themselves.
Because it's a retrovirus, it needs to get into the cell to operate. Activating or deactivating internal mechanisms in the cell wouldn't do much for it, which is what attaching to a receptor would do.
This means that it needs to cross the cell membrane and reach the nucleus. It also means that it must have a functional mechanism for copying itself into the DNA sequence. The outside structure would not appear to affect these events, with one exception.
The exception would be if the cell membrane is unusual, in the sense of preventing the virus from getting through. Viruses are small, but when you compare them to the stuff a cell actually needs (eg: amino acids, simple sugars, etc) a virus is absolutely gigantic.
(A simple protein is a chain of 3 amino acids. So the smallest unit you can consider is already considerably larger than the sorts of molecules the cell actually wants. Hepadnaviruses - the smallest viruses known - can be arounf 3,200 nucleotides long. The SARS virus is 29,727 nucleotides in length. These are all very very large molecules.)
Actually, retroviruses carry a spiked outer coating to burst their way through the membrane. Which I guess answers the question of how they can get in, and not need the receptors.
-- It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Interesting.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Funny
Do you have their contact info?
Re:immunity? someone should research slashdot
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Funny
More like: "if it's got boobs, it will turn and run away"
I didn't the show, but I do remember reading on a relation between plague survivors and the mutant gene. I can't remember if it was a gene that prevent transfers, or a gene not present which the virus needed in order to propogate within the host.
It's not unthinkable though, that a plague or other nasty disease could in fact mutate cells causing genetic alterations in later descenendants...
Re:Plague Survivors
by
Hooya
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· Score: 2, Informative
in response to the grandparent post:
it's not that there aren't any delta32 posessors in asia or africa. there are. just that in europe, those that didn't have it were wiped out during the plague. so the concentration of delta32 in europe is much much higher since present day europeans were decendents of delta32 carriers. and anyone that didn't have delta32 didn't stick around to pass on there non-mutated gene.
in asia and africa, you didn't have to survive the plague (since there hasn't been one like in europe) to be able to pass your genes. hence the very low concentration of delta32.
to the parent post: as far as i can remember, delta32 prevents the virii from latching onto the white blood cell. i believe the virus has to hijack WBC to launch attack against other WBCs rendering the defence machanisms useless.
interestingly, plague infection and AIDS infection work with the same mechanism (the virus puncturing a WBC and then hijacking it) and delta32 prevents the puncturing. so decendents of those who survived the plague have a high chance of having delta32 which would then give them immunity from AIDS. which then explains the AIDS epedimic in africa and asia since the inhabitants were not necessarily decendents of people that had to have delta32 to survive to pass on their genes.
Right - that's why Chinese people don't reproduce, and that's why there aren't so many. WTF?
--
--
make install -not war
Re:What's wrong with a master race?
by
l0ungeb0y
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· Score: 1
As long as you're going to be using gene therapy to bring the world's genes into a better state, at least. The problem with Nazi Germany was that their method for creating a master race was based around simple husbandry - those with genes percieved as inferior are not permitted to breed into the master race.
Thank you for bringing that up so I may touch upon that without being (i hope) off topic.
Gene selection and euthenasia were hand in hand for the first part of our century... hence Huxley's book "Brave New World". Desired genetic traits for the "Intellectual Class" were kept in social cell and had Government Sponsered orgies for the sake of deliberate Intercourse.. or shall I say.. satisfaction. In the meantime however, all children were born via "test tubes" not any form of forced inception, but entirely based upon "desired gentic traits" ie: the template I briefly mentioned.
Huxley's foresight into the matter was based around events and technology of the current day. The US State of California was as adament about Genetic Selection as Hitler was and supported a system of Eugenics based upon social class and "state of desired mental attribute" as proscribed by mental therapists in the early 20th Century into the near-min 20th Century. This is a very lengthy topic however and one that is not very popular to discuss. So I would recommend as a starting point this link to SFGate which is an unashamed freethinking rag spun off from the SF Chronical. See link here. While that may sum it up in a very limited Fashion, you may care to Google Search for a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=California+Hi tler+Eugenics&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8">Eugeni cs in America. The Golden Sate is not as golden as it may seem:) and while we're discussing dissions based upon the subject of late 19th and early 20th century psychology, why not look at the story of Francis Bean.
I'd recommend renting a very happy movie of your choice to put into the DVD player after reading all that... for it will probably leave you introspective, sickened and depressed to a degree and likely take you a week to digest and leave you voting Democratic.
This is off topic but im sure some will find it interesting...A few years ago I was reading the russian newspaper and I saw a very interesting article about a doctor getting rid of the HIV virus by rasing the body temperture of the patient to i belive around 120 degrees...once the virus gets exposed to that temperture it gets destroyed but the
patient clinicly dies also and needs to be revieved after the procedure...as u may guess not everyone got revived the right way but i think the guy had more than a 50% succes rate...im not sure if it is still being done or not but for someone who is about to die its not a bad chance to live...I don't remember if the precedure works on HIV positive patients or Full blown AIDS patients...for someone with AIDS it's not a bad chance to live...it's obviusly kinda barbaric and the patient is hevily drugged and dosent feel any pain and something gets applied to the skin to prevent 3rd degree burns...does anyone think this is a good idea?
Yeah, I was thinking of that too, since it came up in another recent topic. I believe it's a bad idea too, but if you are already nearing death & other alternatives have failed, why not. If nothing else, I imagine you are unconcious when it happens, so you are dead without last-minute pain, cured & able to be treated for the other problems that have come up, or maybe you'll be cured & have a nice tan... on all your internal organs.
Patents are the real key
by
fsterman
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· Score: 5, Interesting
The key is the fact the Gene patens have blocked research into it. Every time a lab does something with the caucasian mutation this lab send out a cease and desist. They guy who they found it on originally is opposed to it, but he has no say, even if it is his body. Another thing software and genes have in common, neither should have patents.
-- Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
Re:Patents are the real key
by
jimicus
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Every time a lab does something with the caucasian mutation this lab send out a cease and desist.
Cite?
(Yes, I know not believing everything you read is genereally bad for the karma. So mod me down).
Re:Patents are the real key
by
bloosqr
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· Score: 4, Informative
Cite?
(Yes, I know not believing everything you read is genereally bad for the karma. So mod me down).
Actually this one is more appropriate: Here is another article on a general CCR5 Gene Patent from Human Genome Sciences. This article goes quite in depth w/ regards the consequence of the patent filing on drug research w/ CCR5 inhibitors.
-bloo
Re:Patents are the real key
by
jimicus
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Wonderful, wonderful. So now only one company in most of the developed world can research this promising avenue, rather than pooling the resources of charities, drugs companies and other researchers worldwide?
The human race is going to be the first race in history to litigate itself into oblivion.
Re:Patents are the real key
by
Lethyos
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· Score: 1
Cite?
You just don't get it, man! Why can't you be on our side for once, huh? Why do you always have to pick on the little guy? This isn't about "citations" or "backing up your statements", it's about fighting The Man.
-- Why bother.
Re:Patents are the real key
by
stupid_is
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· Score: 1
Doesn't the WTO (or whoever) have a get out clause allowing countries to ignore patents if the use of them is in defence of an epidemic? I vauguely recall some lawsuit that was brought about against the "3rd world" companies that were manufacturing retro-virals, but neglecting to pay royalties to whoever it is that invented/developed them in the first place. That may have been about the time that the patent holders reduced the royalty rate as part of a settlement - but then my memory is completely rubbish and I may have just made all that up.
-- --
Intelligence is soluble in alcohol
Re:Patents are the real key
by
jimicus
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· Score: 1
I recall hearing something similar. My understanding was that if the World Health Organisation deems a drug sufficiently important, they put it on a list. Medicines on that list have to be made available at sensible prices (and you can't sue people making generics in third world countries, regardless of the patent issues). Great for PR (Our company has 8 different products on the list! Aren't we great!) but lousy for the bottom line - you'll spend millions on research only to find you can't sell it at £500 a dose worldwide.
However, that's for medicines already in production. I doubt it covers stuff still in research.
Re:Patents are the real key
by
Majestix
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· Score: 1
Yep, why do you think lawy...er...sharks have remained essentially unchanged for millions of years. WE are their food. And did i mention they dont get cancer? Lawy...er..sharks are lucky.
I know, bad joke, but i had to...
-- ---
I was far from home, and the spell of the Eastern sea was upon me. -Lovecraft-
Re:It seems unlikely.
by
spectecjr
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· Score: 2, Informative
HIV mutates faster than virtually any other virus. Indeed, early vaccine attempts were foiled by the ability of the virus to "reactivate" itself, after being disabled. Because there's very little in the virus that is guaranteed to be common to ALL instances of said virus, it is hard to see how immunity could exist, even in theory.
Other primates are already immune to HIV - Chimps, it seems, caught it a long time ago. It decimated their population - but some had the immunity. All chimps today are immune to it.
> I knew mother nature would come up with a solution first:)
Even better: "MN" came up with that cure hundreds of years before (at least 100s, maybe 1000s) it was recognized in humans (or anywhere, for that matter).
I don't necessarily forsee this as the "true" future, but a few comments here got me thinking in this direction, and, well, it's an interesting "What if" thing to think about.
A lot of work has been done in the field of "engineering" human life. We now create babies in a laboratory, in test tubes. Many plants are genetically altered.
Suppose the "cure for AIDS" wasn't a pill, but just something you could give to your children, who would be "grown" in a lab, based on a mother and father's DNA, to be AIDS-immune.
How many people would even be willing to do this? And, assuming a sufficient quantity did, would the AIDS-immune minority (presumably) eventually dominate, by Darwin's Theory? Would this vulnerable to AIDS eventually just all die off, leaving only genetically-altered humans?
This is nothing more than wild conjecture; a work of fiction, really. But it's because of comments here that I started wondering. And it doesn't seem entirely implausible, really.
-- ________________________________________________
suwain_2:: quality slashdot p
Pointing out ubiquitous occurrences & blaming them on culture, perhaps you are an asshole. No, wait, there is no "perhaps" in this case. All humans (AFAIK) are capable of conjecture; being American has nothing to do with it.
No, perhaps you could come back with a response that is more insightful than a 5-year-old's ranting? I suppose that means I "won" the argument if that's the best you can come up with. Hell, it's not even a good troll!
Geez, the common foreigner rantings are better than that. Call me an Ignorant American, at LEAST! You would still be wrong, but at least there's already a precedent of other ignorant Americans so there's some rationale outside of your grade school level dick jokes. Maybe you are still IN grade school. That would explain a lot.
I didn't call you nor the original poster an ignorant American, I simply suggested the original poster was probably American.
I've encountered numerous Americans who use 'what if' as if it were a noun in place of the word hypothetical which conveys the same meaning and actually is a noun.
As for the superfluity of quotation marks, there were numerous quotation marks used in the post. They added no meaning, I have no idea why they were there, they were superfluous.
Dick jokes are considered the very height of sophitication where I live. Cock gobbler.
-- Now wash your hands.
Back at ya, monkey's uncle.
by
uberdave
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Creationists have no problem with evolution on this level. What they have a problem with is that evolution can account for the development of different species, or that it somehow allows a puddle of goo somewhere in France to became human.
Re:Back at ya, monkey's uncle.
by
Scarblac
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Creationists have no problem with evolution on this level. What they have a problem with is that evolution can account for the development of different species, or that it somehow allows a puddle of goo somewhere in France to became human.
It is perfectly reasonable to be critical about that sort of thing, even though it's often more a statement about the ignorance about biology of those Creationists than about deficiencies of the theory, and well, everything isn't completely explained yet, that is of course true.
What's ridiculous though, is that those Creationists then suddenly claim that some "God" created all of this, a theory for which the evidence is completely absent and therefore the gaps are infinitely larger... At least Evolution tries to actually explain things and thus be a scientific theory at all.
-- I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
Re:Back at ya, monkey's uncle.
by
Durandal64
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· Score: 1
Evolution predicts speciation and on a large-scale level. Speciation is simply the long-term result of the mechanism which drives evolution: natural selection. If creationists can't take the time to learn about evolutionary theory, I don't see how that's science's problem. The theory stands with the general theory of relativity in terms of its robustness and accuracy.
Stupid Question
by
suwain_2
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I'm not well-versed on HIV or AIDS. But I have a simple, stupid question.
To fight off the flu, you essentially give someone the flu, you just only give them a small amount. (And it's usually "dead," so that it can't infect them.) The body 'learns' to defend against it, so that if the 'full strength' flu hits, you can prevent it. This is a basic fact of how most preventative immunizations work.
Why doesn't this work for HIV/AIDS? Wouldn't someone receiving a tiny bit of the AIDS virus become immune to AIDS? I'm assuming that someone much smarter than myself has attempted this, and that it doesn't work. I'm just curious as to why. (And, as I said, I don't pretend to know much about HIV, AIDS, or medicine in general.)
-- ________________________________________________
suwain_2:: quality slashdot p
Re:Stupid Question
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Informative
Answering anon because I modded someone, but here's the gist of it:
Immunizations against HIV aren't effective for a couple reasons: First, the virus mutates so quickly that what you're immunized against might not protect you from infection. Second, the virus itself kills off the white blood cells that would be activated by the immunization, making it basically pointless.
-- Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Re:Stupid Question
by
xutopia
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· Score: 2, Informative
Disclaimer: IANAD (I am not a doctor).
AIDS means: Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome and we say someone has AIDS if they have acquired the Human Immunodeficiency Virus. This virus works by attacking your immune system's foundation: white blood cells. In seronegative people (people without HIV) white blood cells take care of killing off any "exotic cells" that can get you sick. White blood cells work by recognising a cell's signature (a mixture of protein and/or enzymes) but the AIDS virus has a stealth system (a protein or enzyme) which fakes a signature similar to one common in other cells found in your body. To add insult to injury the white blood cells are what the AIDS virus uses to reproduce. It enters a white blood cell and uses it as food and shelter until it can divide a few times and burst out in bigger numbers. Scary isn't it?
It's a real challenge for doctors around the world and they're trying all kinds of angles. Many have tried to change the protein shell of the aids virus, making the white blood cells more "intelligent" and all kinds of other things. So far AIDS is winning. Use condoms or be in a faithful relationship with a seronegative person(someone without AIDS), or if you believe in that you can always abstain.
Here is a theory why. The CCR5-Delta32 mutation has the highest concentration in Ashkenazi Jews and Nordic people, and developed a high concentration in Caucasians because it provided resistance to the black plague.
Re:immunity? someone should research slashdot
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
dude, a lot of people on slashdot have got boobs. Pizza + pepsi all day will do that to either gender...
Sigh. You're right but...
by
Fallen+Andy
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· Score: 1
Even researchers can't keep up with the bombardment of papers. Sometimes, you get more information from the BBC having a 2 week session of information about HIV or whatever simply because it rolls up and summarizes...
Heres the punchline:
1. First documented human case of HIV c.a. 1960. No, not the infamous canadian airline steward.
2. First (estimated) crossover from simians to humans. c.a. 1936.
Ouch.
As a sidenote, my jewish nude artist's model's friends knew about this disease *before* the squabble between Gallo and Luc what's his name and before it even had the name HLTV-3.
This was c.a. 1982. I hadn't seen any information in SciAm or anywhere else (ok, I *used* to read Nature, but I'm a sad person).
Don't let the stuff about immunity make you complacent. Wear a sock. Heck, wear serious protection. Stay alive.
Re:God and science
by
qeveren
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· Score: 3, Insightful
HIV's primary vector is blood-to-blood contact. I think it's just slightly more likely that someone became infected by butchering an SIV infected primate for food and getting blood contact, rather than the more sensational concept of interspecies sex. Of course, people always prefer the more lurid and shocking possibilities over more mundane (and likely) causes.
--
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
MarcQuadra
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· Score: 3, Interesting
And virtually everyone has one form of HPV or another.
Last I heard, there were over 90 strains, and several are common on even non sexually-active folks.
HPV transmits through skin contact, so rubbers won't prevent it. But the VAST majority of the time it does NOTHING, no warts, no cancers, NOTHING. Certain combinations of strains seem to cause the warts, and that's far less common than having no symptoms at all.
Overall, I think there's a LOT of fear mongering about STDs. The problem is really much more prevalent amongst the poor and uneducated. If you pick your partners right, and 'look before you leap' you have pretty good chances of coming out OK. It's good to get your partner to prove no infection before you hit it raw though, and you should go 'get swabbed' every year or so.
Also remember, there are less than 100,000 women with HIV in the United States. Your chances of sleeping with an HIV-infected female pickup in the USA is about 1 in 1500. Your chances of CONTRACTING HIV from that would be under 1 in 30,000. For non-junkie heterosexual men seeking women in the USA, your chance of being infected with HIV is almost nothing. Worry about the nasty STDs instead.
-- "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie."
-Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Re:But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
maxpublic
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· Score: 1
Yes, let's remember you have a better chance of getting killed in a car wreck than in contracting AIDS. If you're inclined to use a condom even those tiny odds decline dramatically.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Re:But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
Thomas+Miconi
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· Score: 1
Your chances of sleeping with an HIV-infected female pickup in the USA is about 1 in 1500
This is Slashdot. You forgot a few zeroes.
Thomas-
Re:But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
matastas
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· Score: 1
According to a buddy of mine who attended, a professor at Northwestern actually used game theory to prove the lost 'value' in using condoms during your average heterosexual encounter (in economics, it's all about value).
I've talked to several medical professionals and AIDS activists, and they all say that HIV is a hard virus to catch, especially if you're a male in a heterosexual encounter. And one has said 'I've never met a person who, when tested positive, didn't know exactly what they'd done to catch it.'
I agree: lots of fear mongering. It's a hard virus to catch. Of course, if the facts and the odds saw light of day with the masses, your problem might be much, much worse, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't wrap your gear before entry. But a look at the math can strip some of the fear out of the subjest.
Re:But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
Tackhead
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· Score: 1
> Yes, let's remember you have a better chance of getting killed in a car wreck than in contracting AIDS. If you're inclined to use a condom even those tiny odds decline dramatically.
Tried that. Cop looked at me real funny when he pulled me over, and suggested I go back to using seat belts.
I guess it works, though. I got off with a warning.
Re:But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
Reene
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· Score: 1
Also remember, there are less than 100,000 women with HIV in the United States.
Either your figures are outdated, just plain wrong, or I have the worst luck of anyone I have ever met.
I would agree there is a lot of fear-mongering, but it's better to be extra-cautious IMO than to go around screwing whomever carelessly because of the "it could never happen to me" and "it's not a huge deal anyway" (when it really could be) mentalities.
You bring up HPV, but what about the herpes virus? I heard from a few sources that nearly everybody also has some form of herpes and some show symptoms in the form of cold sores in the mouth, but these are not due to any sexual contact either. I myself have been getting cold sores since I was about 2, so barring any life-shattering repressed memories I'd have contracted it some other way, assuming it is in fact caused by some form of the herpes virus.
-- "He does look a bit Oompa like, even if his Loompa is a bit off-kilter."
Re:But HPV is more prevalent than GW are
by
MarcQuadra
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· Score: 1
it's better to be extra-cautious IMO than to go around screwing whomever carelessly
BINGO! You're agreeing with me. What I'm saying is that it's perfectly fine to not use protection providing you are selective and honest and have a good enough sense of caution.
When I'm about to bag some skank at a party, you bet I strap on some rubber (if I bother at all), but if I'm in any sort of sexual relation with someone beyond that, I like to 'keep it real'. I seriously have a lot of trouble fscking plastic baggies, I'd rather just not have sex.
Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe it's pride, maybe I'm just honestly saying what most guys don't like to admit. Condoms suck, and the only time I use them is when the territory is uncharted or questionable, and usually I'm only there in the 'spirit of conquest'.
-- "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie."
-Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
There are asian sluts out there, believe me.
by
Scrameustache
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· Score: 4, Funny
from my experience, culturally Asians seem to be a lot less promiscuous
Being turned down by asian chicks doesn't mean asian cultures are less promiscuous;-)
--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re:There are asian sluts out there, believe me.
by
Associate
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· Score: 1
It's not that. I think he just hasn't found any good hot young asia sex sites.
-- Someone hates these cans.
Re:There are asian sluts out there, believe me.
by
boomgopher
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· Score: 1
Being turned down by asian chicks doesn't mean asian cultures are less promiscuous;-)
Cute, I guess I set myself up for that one. FWIW, I'm married to a Asian:)
-- Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Re:There are asian sluts out there, believe me.
by
Scrameustache
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· Score: 1
Cute, I guess I set myself up for that one. FWIW, I'm married to a Asian:)
I Recently broke up with an asian slut. And I'm not just saying that 'cause we broke up...
--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re:It seems unlikely.
by
spectecjr
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· Score: 4, Informative
Genome sequencing of different isolates of HIV-1 and HIV-2 shows that each is related to retroviruses that occur in primates in Africa. These are designated simian immunodeficiency viruses (SIV) although they do not cause immune deficiency (or any disease) in their natural host. However, on those occasions when a SIV accidentally infects a primate of a different species, it does cause disease in the new host. The human epidemic is one example. HIV-1 is most closely related to a SIV found in chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes troglodytes) HIV-2 is most closely related to a SIV that occurs in the sooty mangabey (Cercocebus atys). Genome analysis also permits the construction of phylogenetic trees which reveal different clades of HIV just as such analysis reveals evolutionary relationship between species.
China Daily reports that researcher Tuofu Zhu has discovered two women in an HIV Research program that are immune to the disorder via a mutant gene. [my emphasis]
A disorder? We're talking about a virus here!
z
-- What would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Third world was the non-aligned world,
perhaps a misnomer today since the second world [Communist world aligned against the US-Led block] is no more [except china N-Corea etc.]
'Third world is a term originally used to distinguish those nations that neither aligned with the capitalist West, the "First world", nor with the Socialist East, the "Second world".'
Third world has nothing to do with development, it refers to whether you were with the Capitalistic (US) or Communistic (USSR) blocks.
Its a third world country when they take someone elses job. Its a greedy evil country when they take your job so they can have their version of the "American Dream." BTW I'm a laizie faire capitalists and pro out sourcing, though admitingly because I have a job.
-- ---
Justin Dearing
http://www.justaprogrammer.net/
We're just programmers.
China and India are in the "developing" world, not the 3rd world, get it straight.
No, no. "Third world" and "developing world" are the same thing. Apparently it was politically incorrect to refer to a country as "third-world" or as "underdeveloped", so they invented the "developing" designation..
In fact, the "second world" refers to the nations within the former USSR's sphere of influence. It does not refer to "nations that are more developed than third world neations and less than first world ones". (Of course all these definitions are flaky anyway).
Developing world - 3d world, it's just a politicaly correct way to say it. Don't confuse Developing countries and "emerging countries" like China, Malaysia, India, Brasil, Corea etc
Yeah, my flatmate fell for that one for a while too.
http://www.thebody.com/amfar/krim.html
Many thoroughly debunked theories are still convincing when you only read one side of them. (take for example all the evidence we never sent a man to the moon)
Delta 32 mutation Link
by
fractaltiger
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· Score: 1
It is the CCR5 delta 32 mutation. The PBS program has a synopsis here about this
I remember seeing that the guy with the mutation was told to check himself after he had spent a large number of years, like the older woman in the article, having relations with his fatally infected homosexual lover and several others. This was during the AIDS scare back in the 1980's.
The tests were run several times by exposing his genetically mutated blood to 300 times the required contagious dose of the virus, and seeing the cell walls resist the normal absorption that protects and carries the virus to delicate parts of our system.
I'm not a biologyst --as well as I can remember this is what was described in the program, and the first half was about his medieval family tree. It confirmed that he had the same genes that were curiously immune to the HIV-like virus of the Black Plague, back in the dark ages.
-- "Wireless : LAN:: Laptop : Desktop"
Misinformative
by
DietFluffy
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Why is this modded Informative? The parent is implying that these 2 women developed a mutation that made them immune to the HIV virus. This is a total misconception of how evolution works. This is not a comic book people, Evolution works as trends within species. The mutation described in the article is clearly a coincidental mutation that came about much earlier, not one that evolved due to the current 25-year-old aids epidemic.
This is a total misconception of how evolution works. [...] The mutation described in the article is clearly a coincidental mutation that came about much earlier, not one that evolved due to the current 25-year-old aids epidemic.
But isn't this exactly how evolution works? There is never any "active adaption", but mutations happens randomly and may by pure luck give a beneficial property. These benefits makes the survival rate of the children higher, and after a looooong time decendants of a few mutated individuals have replaced the entire species.
Notice that the "looooong time" in this is the time it takes for the gene to spread to the whole population, not the time it takes from an outbreak of a disease until it is possible to find a gene that protects against that disease. As you say is "clear" here, the latter probably usually happens long *before* the former.
It may not be relative
by
PCM2
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Actually, I once saw a show on PBS where some scientists did a clever test. They took a whole bunch of photographs of people's faces and morphed them together, to create a picture of a composite human face. Most people who saw the face and were asked whether it was an attractive person agreed that it was.
The idea here is that what the scientists did was create a completely average face -- that is, mathematically average. Faces with big noses, or big chins, or buggy eyes, were cancelled out by the majority of faces that didn't share those features. In the end, what you got was a face every feature of which was the "norm" for the human race at large.
So the conclusion you could draw from this study is that the people we find the most attractive are the ones with the least apparent variation. A particularly exaggerated feature on a face might be viewed as a sign that some radical genetic divergence has taken place in that person's development -- and we don't care much for that, as a species. While diversity might be good for evolution, we like the norm (and this has nothing to do with skin color or the facial features of any particular ethnicity; so far as I know the scientists used a whole cross-section of people).
So if this theory is true, then no, human standards of beauty are not actually as relative as romantics might assume.
I've read about different tests like this one, too, but even though they are very interesting, many of the people that are generally found very attractive (supermodels and such) have some "exaggerated feature" that makes them stand out. I find that even though many successful models have very "average" faces (in the sense of the word used in the parent post), the ones that make it to the absolute top have some small "abnormity", such as a big nose, a mouche or very high cheek bones.
-- :wq!
Re:It may not be relative
by
Anonymous+Writer
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· Score: 4, Informative
Actually, I once saw a show on PBS where some scientists did a clever test.
Re:It may not be relative
by
glyph42
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· Score: 2, Insightful
All this study proved is that the "average" face is attractive. It did NOT prove that the "average" face is the MOST attractive, which has also been tested and found to be false. The "average" face is high on the beauty scale, but it is not at the top.
-- Music speeds up when you yawn, but does not change pitch.
Re:It may not be relative
by
bfischer
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· Score: 1
If this is the same show I saw a while ago, I found it very funny is the model they chose for demonstrating the golden rule really wasn't very attractive (certainly a dramatic face but not the norm, IMO).
-- -- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Re:It may not be relative
by
cornjchob
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· Score: 1
When asked why he divorced his supermodel wife, Billy Joel replied, "Sometimes a man doesn't want filet mignon; sometimes a man just wants a burger."
Applicable kind of, however a lot of wisdom. Ask the guy who married the beauty queen in highschool what she's like now, and it's apparent that as relationships go over time, the average face is, in fact, the most attractive.
-- We now have confirmed reports from an informed Orange County minister that Ethel is still an active communist.
Re:It may not be relative
by
melekcrescent
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· Score: 1
This same technique of superimposing photographs was used in the 30s and 40s a lot in misguided attempts at criminal/racial profiling. They would superimpose a bunch of criminals, and believed that 'criminal traits' would show up in the final product. If my education serves, the nazis also used this technique to profile Jewish people. A lot of work to figure out theres such a thing as a Jewish nose.
CCR5 Delta 32 - same immunity for Black Plague
by
Ex-MislTech
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· Score: 2, Informative
Some ppl were found to be alive and well in towns that were completely wiped out by the black plague, they did some gene research and linked it to the specific marker CCR5 Delta 32, and those ppl that had the marker from both lines of their parents were immune, and if just one were resisitant and had a chance of living through the black plague but contracting it.
The ppl that had both markers from both parents were immune.
They found this same gene mutations has the same effect with AIDs as it blocks the uptake process needed to do its terrible process.
Peace, Ex-MislTech
-- google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Not totally new
by
pk2000
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· Score: 5, Informative
AIDS resistance has also been found in family trees that survived Black Death some 600 years ago.
similar to the survivors of the black plague
by
hari
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· Score: 1
I remember watching an episode of "the secrets of the dead" which showed people who were exposed to the plague bacterium during the 17th century, developed an immunity towards the HIV virus.
Apparently there are descendents of those who were exposed to the plague among us who are immune to the virus.
check out:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/abou t. html
Strange idea that HIV virus doesn't cause death
by
waterbear
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· Score: 2, Informative
most AIDS-related deaths aren't due to the virus itself, but rather it weakening your immune system enough for something else to get you.
That is in fact how everyone does from AIDS. A weak immune system isn't itself terminal, however, without defenses otherwise weak illnesses are life-threatening.
IMO it's a very weird idea of causation that wants to say the main factor leading to death (the virus) is not a cause, just because there had to be a second contributory factor there as well.
As noted in the immediate parent post, the HIV virus breaks its sufferers so badly, that they die from something normally minor, that others just bounce off. Saying these deaths 'aren't due' to the virus is like saying that the spark didn't cause that forest fire, because, see, there was all that oxygen around, and that's what caused the fire, wouldn't have happened without it y'know!
-wb-
Re:Strange idea that HIV virus doesn't cause death
by
Issue9mm
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· Score: 1
While I mostly agree, I think a more correct analogy would be to equate the virus with a drought, and the cold to the spark. HIV is the drought that causes the field to be more susceptible to the spark, not the spark itself.
-9mm-
We are more fucked than you think
by
danieleran
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· Score: 1
While testing and education and condom availability are all good things, the spread of HIV has far more to do with the reality of human behavioral problems.
HIV is not an easy disease to contract, compared with many other STDs. Most people with HIV get it by getting infected blood injected into their veins or through rough anal sex (the inside of the ass has thin walls and is easy to injure; it's far easier to transmit HIV anally than vaginally).
The reason HIV didn't flood through into heterosexual populations as was predicted is because HIV largely flows from the penetrator to the penetrated. The infection risk is far lower for the man in vaginal sex and the top in anal sex.
Many gay men were infected quickly because gay men frequently trade positions, making them not only engaging in riskier anal sex, but also alternating between insertive and receptive roles, giving them more equal chances to get infected and also be in a position to infect others.
Straight men and women act as a firebreak; in the US, there aren't large populations of men who have sex with both sexes and trade positions in sex. Infected women are far less likely to infect other men, so infection can't spread as quickly.
The epidemic in Africa is largely a problem with extreme poverty and women lacking the empowerment to chose who they have sex with. Differences in society mean African men are more likely to have sex with whoever is available (not limited to heterosexual partners) and that women are often not given a choice in partners AND in the use of protection. The result is that while every populated continent on earth has around a million or less infected with HIV, Africa has around 38 million infected.
The HIV epidemic is rooted deeply in entrenched behavior patterns that aren't changing with a bit of PSAs and some more research, or even the discovery of some wonderdrug.
We are struggling to keep up with antibiotics for common bacterial infections. HIV is mutating as well.
Additionally, the epidemic is migrating from the rich and famous to the poor and forgotten, and known treatments are very expensive, leaving the African poor without treatments available in the US. That means the even if the US were to find an HIV-cure, the epidemic in Africa would likely birth cure-resistant strains exported back to the west. We already have strains here that don't respond to the existing treatments we have for managing the disease.
So Jerkcity, its a bit early to wave your condom in triumph and laugh at your imaginary god. We are still in lots of hurt.
Doesn't mean much in itself
by
DrXym
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Many races have a built immunity to malaria too thanks to a genetic mutation. Which is all fine and good until you consider the mutation also causes sickle cell anaemia.
In other other words the mutation might stop you dying in childhood from malaria, only to see an increased chance that you die painfully in adulthood. The mutation is only semi-recessive so even if you get it from one parent you will exhibit some symptoms. If you're really unfortunate however, both parents will pass on the mutation to you in which case you're really screwed.
From the DNA's perspective the mutation is still successful since it means a greater chance of reproducing (over the more malaria prone normal gene pool). But it it's not so great for the individual whose natural defence against malaria could see them die painfully and prematurely in either case.
So the fact that there is a gene that grants increased immunity to HIV is meaningless unless it has no other sideeffects. If these women consequently die of breast cancer or something else as a result of it, it could hardly be said to be a 'miracle cure'.
yea right. so how did so amny thigns get invented and built before patents?
non process patents stifle inovations, patents were supposed to be applied to a process, not a general idea.
and how can you patent DNA? i mean i'm made up of DNA so isn't that DNA mine? and any geans in it?
Did anyone catch this facist quote?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Interesting
And this is a direct, unedited, yes I RTFA quote:
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races,"said Zhu. "
So 'before', when white-people, like myself, had this gene and it was identified and being considered, it wasn't REALLY studied that hard. But now that a Chinese person has it, they're going to study it?
Nice.
If you substitute the word Caucasion for blacks or hispanics, there would be cries of racism from any other ethnic group:
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Blacks."
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Hispanics."
Long Live ANON
Re:Did anyone catch this facist quote?
by
dhalgren
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· Score: 1
It is perfectly reasonable that Chinese researchers would pay more attention to a mutation once it had been proven to exist in the Chinese than they would when the mutation was only proven to exist in Caucasians.
Such a discovery would support further research into the mutation in non-Caucasians simply because now the researchers know that they have a chance of finding the mutation in other populations.
This is not a major story.
by
Futurepower(R)
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· Score: 2, Interesting
This is not a major story. It is just meant to be a local story. For
example, see this 2002 story: Secrets of Aids
'immunity'. Here is a quote, "Scientists have known since the mid-1980s
that some people with HIV do not go on to develop Aids."
Re:This is not a major story.
by
krugg234
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· Score: 1
Yeah, this has been known about for a long time. We even learned about it in med school. IIRC, it's a mutation of the CD5 receptor, which is necessary for the HIV to recognize the T cell as a potentially infectable cell.
The article does not say, however, if these Chinese women have the same mutation. This is especially interesting because they've identified 11 exposed seronegative individuals but have only found the gene responsible for the protection on 2 of them. I think it will be interesting to see if the protection here is from the same mechanism as in other races or if it's completely new.
On one hand you have scientists saying that chimpanzees are 98.5% identical to humans.
On the other hand you have scientits saying that race accounts of 0.24 percent of total make up.
So, sure the difference in terms of genetic material is small, but where's the proof that the 0.24% is _insignificant_?
You have races with different propensity to diseases- e.g. cystic fibrosis. So there _are_ racial differences.
So, ignoring political correctness (which is unscientific), it's naive to say there's no such thing as race. It's like saying that one breed of dog is identical to another (e.g. beagles vs dalmations). Sure they can breed with each other, but there are differences - temperament, intelligence, physique, propensity to diseases/ailments.
Significance is relative: to alien beings we're probably not really different from a nematode worms or mice. But we are different.
Re:That's not proof
by
TheLink
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· Score: 2, Informative
AC: "The reason is that race, to a biologist, is defined in terms of whether members of the race can and (to a lesser extent) do choose to breed.
So, all dogs are the same species. As you say, different breeds of dog have different characteristics. But those characteristics don't stop breeding, so they don't make two breeds racially different - even though they do make them phenotypically distinct. The proof that the "0.24%" is insignificant is that this difference doesn't cause biologically separate populations."
You are mostly wrong. Biologists define _species_ that way ( mate + produce viable offspring). But who defines race by ability/inability to interbreed? It's obvious to anyone that the races can and do interbreed and produce viable offspring.
"Race" is closer to "breed". Human races are a product of probably more haphazard breeding, so the breed characteristics are not as distinct as they are in dog breeds, but there ARE characteristics.
Not even particularly bad
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Interesting
Herpes and HPV are hardly even noticed anyway. Only about a tenth of the people who have genital herpes ever notice it. Almost *everyone* has HPV. Symptoms on both reveal more about a troubled immune system than actual infection.
STDs calm down to asymptomatic pretty quickly because an obviously symptomatic person has trouble with both reproducing and spreading the disease. People vulnerable to the disease don't breed, strains of the disease that are too obvious have the same problem, and boom.
This, more than penicillin, is why syphillis isn't the problem it used to be. It was awful in 1890, but a hundred years before it was horrifying. These days, even when untreated, the symptoms rarely cause a problem. People die before they hit the neuropathy.
Given that HIV is not very contagious and is sexually/blood transmitted, it is not correct to assume that humans would evolve genetically to be immune to HIV.
Groups of people who are monogamous would as a whole be much less vulnerable to such diseases.
While they are not immune, they won't necessarily get infected. They are less likely to develop such immunity - with respect to genes related to the immune system. But if you view it with respect to genes related to monogamy, perhaps those may evolve given enough selection pressure.
There was a study on vasopressin, its receptors and the effects on monogamous prairie voles and polygamous mice.
Perhaps this would be a good place to mention FightAIDS@Home, which is a distributed computing project like SETI@Home. It is used for research into newer drugs to keep up with the mutability of the HIV virus, which has been termed computational co-evolution. It only runs on Windows so far. OS X and Linux versions are supposedly in the works, but they've been taking ages.
This is news for NERDS
by
stud9920
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· Score: 1, Funny
Please give us news about diseases we can actually get.
In fact, these are also not the first two women to have been found immune (more or less) to the HIV Virus. The CCR5 Chemokine co-Receptor Defect has been well documented in the past as preventing HIV from attaching to cells well enough to infect. In fact, this was documented in 1996 or so.
Science Fiction realized...again
by
karlandtanya
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· Score: 1
The company who found the genes on the guy probably wouldn't have had any motivation to do so if they couldn't protect it with patent.
Ok, so with millions of people dying all around, with the human race possibly facing extinction, there is absolutely no motivation to find said genes?
-- "It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
Identical twins can be different sexualities
by
Colin+Smith
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· Score: 2, Informative
Sexuality appears to be as much to do with the parenting environment as genetic or environment within the womb where both twins are subjected to the same genes and environment. It's a common misconception that identical twins are brought up in an identical manner.
Where identical twins have been brought up under completely different conditions and one is gay, there is only a 50% correlation with the sexuality of the other twin. This suggests that the environment plays a significant role in the development of sexuality, though the genes or conditions within the womb also play a role.
The title implies that this is a new discovery, not so, just that it's never been found in asians before. How long has this been known/studied in other ethnic groups?
Is this gene tied to anything else besides resistance to AIDS? I mean, what it does is all well and good, but does it also cause cancer in 30 years?
Is this something that could be used as a vaccine? You hear about genetic manipulation through manufactured retroviruses, am I confusing sci-fi with real science, or could this be used as a "genetic vaccine" someday?
TFA mentions people who are Exposed Seronegative, or something like that, which seems to mean that they've been repeatedly exposed to AIDS and never contracted it. Does this gene confer complete immunity, or just a resistance? Not much info here, could find much on google either, very interested!
The War is Coming
by
Master+Ben
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· Score: 2, Funny
This is how it begins. A few small subtle changes here and there. Now one of those changes has given some people the unfair advantage over the rest of us. We NEED to stop this mutant problem before it becomes a crisis. I say we eliminate these women before more of them start coming out and taking over.
Who's With Me?
Questionning the AIDS hypothesis
by
joshv
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I don't really know what it means to be 'immune' to HIV, but I can tell you there are a large number of highly qualified scientists out there who either question the very existance of the HIV virus or whether or not HIV is capable of causing AIDS. These are not your normal run of the mill Internet whack-jobs with a pet conspiracy theory. A good place to start is http://www.aliveandwell.org/, click the "Rethinking AIDS" link.
This site was founded by Christine Maggiore, a married, heterosexual white women (not the normal risk group), who has tested positive for the 'HIV' virus in 1992. At first she became an AIDS activist, but as she delved deeper into AIDS/HIV research she began to question everything she though she knew about the virus and the disease, and wrote a book about her findings. She calls into question the accuracy of the HIV test, the assumption that HIV causes AIDS, and the efficacy/safety of anti-retroviral drugs.
Today, over 12 years after her diagnosis, she takes no anti-retroviral drugs, and is in perfect health. She has had two healthy children since her diagnosis, and refuses to test or treat either of them for HIV. She actively campaigns for mother's rights to refuse the HIV test and AIDS drug treatments for themselves and their children.
Don't just assume that the mainstream scientific beliefs about HIV and AIDS are correct. Do some research on your own. Google 'AIDS dissidents' and 'Rethinking AIDS'. There is a lot out there. Judge for yourself.
1% caucasians have CCR5 immunity
by
peter303
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· Score: 1
One perecent of caucausians have a defect in the CCR5 cell surface protein that prevents HIV infection. This is thought to have been related to the bubonic plague survival too.
Unfortunately, I think that is sadly very close to the case. Corporations are not people. And Mega-Corporations are about as far from human as you can get. They live for the 2 purposes of profiting and growth.
I'm really starting to think that we should abolish the perpetual corporation...Limited ones for specific purposes are fine, but SHEESH- Kill it off or we won't have to worry about who our next president is, or if we'll die from an under-researched disease- the Allmighty Corporation will make all our decisions and kill us off if we so much as look at it funny...
-- Sig currently under construction. Mind the gap....
Risks and Gambling in Human Nature
by
SeanDuggan
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· Score: 1
*wry grin* Yeah, with proper application, you can reduce your risk by about 3/4. Like getting pregnant, catching AIDS is not a guaranteed matter even with unprotected sex. Condoms reduce the risk, but it's still a gamble to have sex with anyone who you don't know for sure isn't HIV positive. And honestly, I think that's why the problem is not licked in developed countries. People will always play the odds, believing they won't be a statistic.
-- This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
If you leave the R&D to corps, then yes. I was thinking more along the lines of the research being funded by government grants and done at universities sort of thing.
But since I don't live in the corporate states of america, I might have a skewed view of things....
-- "It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
Beauty, eveness and genius
by
Pragmatix
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· Score: 1
All you need to do is look at people who are considered attractive to notice that their faces are very even in proportion.
Which of course is interesting considering the theory that genius in either the left or right brain is said to cause the opposite side of the face to be larger than its counter-part (look at pictures of geniuses in history). I guess the two theories together help to prove a third 'Beautiful people are usually not too bright'
There is no "Mutant"gene, lots of humans carry it.
by
funkdid
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· Score: 1
I'm too lazy to google search for links to back this up (I'll do it later) but as high as 4% of certain people (mostly eastern Europeans) have a genetic make up that makes them imune to HIV (but not AIDS). It is believed that their ancestors with whom they share these genetic traits were the survivors of the black plauge. As many may know there were some doctors, people etc that were constantly around the plauge working with those that were dying, yet never contracted it. Many studies have been done that find similarities in how the body reacts to each disease. Those who carry these genes can be injected with HIV (again NOT with AIDS, but with HIV) and their bodies kick the hell out of it. Inject them with the full blown AIDS variant however and they become mortal.
Yes, some are curable, but most of these are more transmittable than HIV. Some can cause entry points for HIV. Even if they are curable does not mean that they will be. Dysentery is still killing and mostly curable.
AIDS, Africa, & Aid
by
TFGeditor
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Please do not label this FLAMEBAIT, because that is not the intent.
Decades ago, the native African population existed in a state of equilibrium with nature. Part of that equilibrium entailed each woman (polygamy was--and actually is--common) birthing up to 9 infants in order to ensure at least one surviving to adulthood.
Then comes the Western do-gooder, apalled at the poverty, infant mortality, disease, non-existent medical care, and food shortage. Aid from Western countries poured in. Now the indigenous population had means to thrive and grow. Problem was (and is), women continued to birth up to 9 infants--but most if not all survived. The population exploded then spiked--then came another form of AID, nature's way of restoring equilibrium in an environment taxed beyond carrying capacity.
The spread of AIDs will never stop in backward African countries so long as the population remains ignorant. Promotion of condom use? "Don't you know the mzungu (white man) puts the AIDs in the condoms?" Abstinence? What a joke.
The only "cure" for AIDs (for now, at leaset) is education. Problem is, the educatee must want to be educated. It is hard to battle against several millenia of tradition and superstition.
Asia bears the brunt of the problem
by
Linuxathome
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· Score: 1
You can find child prostitutes in any country in the world, including the US, UK, France, Germany, Austrailia, etc. It's not a problem that's unique to Asia, so don't try to paint it that way, please.
True, it's not a unique problem. But because Euro and US currency is so strong compared to these countries, you can get prostitutes for mere dollars. Secondly, law enforcement in these countries can literally be bought to turn a blind eye. The problem may be worldwide, but due to the ease of accessibility and the economics of the situation, Asian countries bear the brunt of the problem -- scratch that, poor countries with open borders for the influx of US and European "vacationers" bear the brunt of the problem.
Now back to the main point of this article. The social implications are chilling. Wives, do you know what your husbands did in that "business trip?" American women should be suspicious of their husband's behavior. It's a fact that a certain demographic of American women are unsuspectedly infected by their husbands.
I for one agree with proponents of the new law that if you commit a crime outside of your country, you can be prosecuted when you return, to the fullest extent of the law. If you were a Jon, preying upon children in Asian countries, the instant you step on US soil, your ass is grass. It's despicable what these Jons do. They have no idea of the global impact that these actions have -- ravaging the future of another country (the children), spreading disease and suffering, all for what? It's sick.
As it was described to me in High School Social Studies class, the first world is the United states, Great Britain, Western Europe, Japan, and maybe a few others I'm forgetting. The second world was only more reacently defined and is used to describe such countries as China, India, Russia, and some of the former Soviet republics because they have advanced technology such as nuclear weapons but still have massive portions of their populations that are uneducated and/or living in poverty.
-GameMaster
--
Rules of Conduct:
#1 - The DM is always right.
#2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
I Think you are wrong here. In the 19th and early 20th Century people used to speak of the "old" and the "new" World - Old implying Europe and Russia while new implies the American Continent.
In contrast to these terms the "Third World" was coined to describe those less developped countries that used to be just colonies before.
So Argentina, for instance, is certainly not Third World in any sense.
-- ...and here I stand, with all my lore, poor fool, no wiser than before.
Re:Eat it, creationist fuckwads
by
diamondsw
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· Score: 1
And lacking modern medicone, those people die, just like evolutionary theory predicts. The only problem is that modern medicine, while exending our lives and the quality of them, is throwing a bit of a monkey wrench in Darwinism. Not saying it's a bad thing but it should be noted.
-- I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
But, the day they find a cure...
by
cayenne8
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· Score: 1
Man, but, just think about the day they come up with a cure for AIDS...if you can't get laid that day...you might as well give it up.
:-)
I've actually often wondered if the divorce rate would go up with the cure? I think a lot of people have gotten married, or at least stayed married due to the dangerous sex scare. If there was a cure, wonder how many men would be going "see ya later babe...gotta find me some strange.."
-- Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Tell me it ain't so ! "... bush was wise..."???
by
davidsyes
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· Score: 1
Huh? Excuse me, but as IIII understand it, that man doesn't want contraception ideas or products being discussed when federal aid money is used domestically OR abroad. By imposing his draconian, immaterial RELIGOUS thoughts or order upon a nation that never had christianity until it was COLONized, the man seems to be a MENace to that society.
By decreasing or threatening to cut desperately needed money, resources and information to a continent ravaged by a horrible things as AIDS or even HIV, the man is imposing a death sentence upon many.
If christianity were run more like a personal belief than a corporate, god-ordained corporation in a battle for life or death, then maybe ("aside from the monkey/ape/gorilla in the forest spread it") story, then maybe, just MAYbe not so many people there would have it. The same could be said for other nations/continents where AIDS and HIV are rampant, including in the US and Asian countries. Our so-called "leaders" need to keep their damned religous beliefs tempered and out of policy making. IFFF "god"/"God" exists to mete out our individual punishment, then let GOD do it at judgement day. Believers and pushers of their own god have caused enough mayhem for many generations and need to chill out. If god wants people to murder in his/her/it's name, then let the absentee landlord come here and do it personally instead of via cretenous organic proxies hell-bent on power trips! There is enough awe and wonder in nature to inspire a belief in a Diety that represents or cares for all life, but just enough despicable behavior in HUMANS to call into question how long this "shit" of murder, exploitation, gleeful execution, WMDs, misplaced distribution of Earth's resources, graft, and more must persist to "prove God cares".
Unfortunately, as long as HIV remains costly to combat, and as long as certain pharmaceuticles insist on pricing treatment at some $250 to $500 per day for a near-lethal-to-not-so/as-hal coctail mixture, then only the ultra wealthy who happen to get HIV can realistically combat it. Maybe those in trials might be lucky if their group gets the safer coctail instead of the placebo or even the weakened version of treatment.
If I'm mistaken about bush, then maybe you can point a refuting URL that says he INCREASED, WITHOUT STRINGS (his personal religious impositions, the amount of money and communication and resources.
-- Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..."
Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Because no matter how well you educate a population, some percentage of said population is just plain stupid.
These are the people that sue McDonalds for not warning them that the coffee is hot, or for not warning their children not to eat the styrofoam box the pancakes came in.
Call me what you will, but I think these people deserve what they get.
These are the people that sue McDonalds for not warning them that the coffee is hot
You might want to remove this one from your rant. The lawsuit was not about coffee being "oh shit!" hot, it was about coffee being "third-degree burns and a week in the hospital" hot.
-- "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
> Ok, so with millions of people dying all around, with the human race possibly facing extinction, there is absolutely no motivation to find said genes?
There's no long-term threat to humanity here -- the mutant gene exists, and over the course of the next century or two, those that carry it will out-reproduce those who do not. It's happened before, and it'll happen again. Evolution finds a way.
But in the short term, why cure a disease or vaccinate against it when you can charge $10-20K/month, times millions infected, to manage it?
You're saying the people whose disease you're managing don't have the money to cover the cost of treament? No problem! Have the government step in and take it from the healthy taxpayers on their behalf! Always a few more sheep to be sheared, especially if it's for a good cause!
The day some wise-ass develops a cure or (worse-yet) one-time vaccine, that revenue stream dries up in 5 years, not 50.
Just be thankful that AIDS is more easily prevented than polio, because if polio were around today, we'd all be typing from inside iron lungs.
plaugue theory questionable
by
vrakj
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
The black plague theory about Delta 32 is questionable. Two published studies (one by me, in fact) have shown that it is not very plausible that the bubonic plague caused enough natural selection to have produced the modern day frequencies of the Delta 32 mutation in Europe. However, it is nearly certain that something did exert strong natural selection on Delta 32 in order for it to be at its current frequency. The leading contender would be some infectious disease (e.g. smallpox), but probably not plague.
Two published studies (one by me, in fact) have shown that it is not very plausible that the bubonic plague caused enough natural selection to have produced the modern day frequencies of the Delta 32 mutation in Europe.
I found this article online that says that the black death may not have been caused by the bubonic plague, but rather some other disease. Could that have something to do with it? Heres a quote...
The descriptions given by Boccaccio and others didn't seem to fit with what we know about bubonic plague. That was the view of two British researchers, Christopher Duncan and Susan Scott from the University of Liverpool, who in 2001 published a book called Biology of Plagues: Evidence from Historical Populations. In it they pointed out several things that didn't make sense if indeed, the Black Death was caused by bubonic plague. ...
There had to be some other means of transmisson than the rat/flea/human pathway. It made much more sense if transmission was from person to person - by an airborne particle - probably a virus, argue Duncan and Scott.
Medieval descriptions of the Black Death - where dark spots appear in the skin - sound more like viral hemorrhagic fever, similar to modern day Ebola, than bubonic plague, they say.
This isn't true, at least not in the southern and eastern African countries with very high HIV prevalence rates. Take Botswana for example: Assuming that prevalence rates stayed at 1999 levels, a boy who was 15 years old that year had a 90% of eventually dying of AIDS (this taking into account other sources of mortality). Granted, Botswana has the highest HIV rates in the world, but similar calculatations have been conducted for other countries and there is little doubt that HIV/AIDS will have an enormous demographic impact on many African countries.
"It sounds like you've been reading so Christian-right pro-abstainance bullshit..."
A little out of line I think... I do not wish problems on anyone, but with as with most actions, sex carries risks.
If you decide to view sex as a recreational sport of pleasure then you take the risks of that choice. Becoming or getting someone pregnant, possible receiving and spreading sexually transmitted diseases for example.
Believe what you will, but if sexual promiscuity didn't exist, then we wouldn't have this problem.
*NOTE* I am aware that it is also transmitted by sharing needles, bad blood transfusions and blood exposure. However I do not believe these are the major carriers of the diseases.
Its cause *I'm the father*.
by
Duhavid
·
· Score: 1
Yeah, thats the ticket.
-- emt 377
emt 4
Re:Its cause *I'm the father*.
by
Doc+Ruby
·
· Score: 1
So, you have AIDS?
--
--
make install -not war
Re:Its cause *I'm the father*.
by
Duhavid
·
· Score: 1
No. Only some have it.
It's hard to spend quality time with billions of children. Some dont turn out just like I want.
Sorry. I'll work on that.
-- emt 377
emt 4
Re:Tell me it ain't so ! "... bush was wise..."???
by
geekpolitico
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Ok, for the record, I am about as big a separation of church and stater as there is on Earth. I have been referred to as an "anti-theist" instead of a mere "atheist".
While there is no doubt that GWB is religiously biased in favor of abstinence only crap, that doesn't mean that abstinence hasn't helped in other countries.
It does mention that 1/3 of the money committed goes to abstinence programs, which may be too much as a percentage, but a) these programs have a history of working in conjuction with other programs, and b) in a dire situation like this, it's better to have $3 billion that is as effective as $2 billion than just spending $1 billion.
Bush is a disagreeable ideologue, and he is overcommitted to many crap ideas, but that doesn't immediately discount funding for abstinence AIDS programs.
Also, I believe, although I can't point to something that immediately backs it up, that they have trouble getting people to regularly take the AIDS cocktail when it is offered. I truly wish that the West would get off it's ass and force drug companies to license/produce generic AIDS drugs for distribution in Africa, but it is unlikely to happen, and even so, there are still major cultural barriers to overcome.
The problem is that we view the health problems of Africa through Western eyes. With so many people dying young from a variety of illnesses, we can afford to allow them to do things that we find disagreeable to protect themselves. For instance, allowing/selling them DDT for their homes to prevent malarial mosquitos from infecting them.
They just need a better incentive
by
hesiod
·
· Score: 1
You can bet that if someone in the president's family acquired HIV, tons of money would suddenly be appropriated for research. And I don't mean just this president, any president on "either side."
Re:There is no "Mutant"gene, lots of humans carry
by
AcmeShells.com
·
· Score: 1
AIDS is what is caused by HIV.
AIDS is not a disease itself but is a way to describe people that have an immune deficiency.
Re:Tell me it ain't so ! "... bush was wise..."???
by
davidsyes
·
· Score: 1
Kewl. Thanks for the URL. It is sad that often the assistance we render is through our colored or filtered lenses.
I wonder how long the issue of patents and the issue of recovering development costs will loom while people die. I wonder if these CEOs, or, rather their investors, of the pharmaceuticals TRULY believe in some sort of Karma, good will, or a myriad of other philosophical approaches to blending technology with humanity. I think a goodly number of them are fiendishly racking up bad Karma.
Maybe it's time we evolve to the point where printing extra give-away cash/currency is not such a bad thing, if it raises morale, improves livilihoods, and makes esteem something to be a gift, right, province, and more.
Ahhh, I'm too much of an idealist or dreamer or I am living in the wrong time.
-- Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..."
Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
If any species has its genetic diversity reduced below some cutoff value, the genetically nearly-identical offspring will be statistically vulnerable to some other challenge to their genome.
We may see (or may have seen) this in the case of endangered species restoration, although of course the workers in this field know of the risk and do their best to keep the gene pool as diverse as possible.
-- The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
Re:There is no "Mutant"gene, lots of humans carry
by
funkdid
·
· Score: 1
My point was that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus, once it has run rampant on you, you have Acquired Imuno Defficiency Syndrome (forgive me spelling, went out for lunch and drank some). The people of which I'm speaking never get their imune system compromised, their T cells never get "sacked" so to speak. HIV has nothing on them. Their immune systems whip HIV down like you or I can bitch slap the 50,000 random germs and fungus we come into contact with in a given day. Oh wait, I get your point.
Although more people are being responsible, the irresponsible ones are living much much longer and infecting more people before they die.
--
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Re:um, no, such designations are all bullshit
by
jonskerr
·
· Score: 1
There is ONE world. Count 'em! One! All this crap about 3rd world, etc is just bullshit made up by elitists to separate all of us people from each other. "Oh! look at THEM! They're not us, they're from another world than ours. They're aliens and we should fear them, hate them, pen them in, and it's all right to enslave them if we can. Hell, we can work 'em like dogs for tuppence a month and pass the savings on to ourselve at Walmart!"
The other issue with this is the newer designation of Developing, Developed, Under-developed. These too, are arbitrary based on an assumption of false superiority. "Ooh, you're not covered in concrete there! You're obviously not as good as us!" We should relabel it Overdeveloped, About Right, and Developing.
-- O~
Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
I find this dicussion increasing here are my 2 cents.
1) I dont generally believe studies from news papers. I think most of them as ill designed and aimed at sensationalism.
2)Recently my wife and I had to be to tested for HIV. We are expecting our first child and it was a traumatic event. Thankfully we are in the clear. I know that I had exposure to HIV through work years ago.
Question is: Would I mind being isolated? YES. Should I be isolated had I had the infection. I would say YES. It is painful but true. It would bother me a lot if I knew I had caused somebody else's HIV infection. I think it is the responsibility of those with HIV to steer clear of HIV- folks. Besides, for the record, I am not a christian, I am agnostic.
I also think that if you are atheistic or agnostic your moral responsibilities are higher as you cannot just ask for forgiveness and forget your mistakes. You get to live with them and suffer your demons all by yourself.
3) It hurts to think that India are China are not developed nations but it is true. I think 3rd world nations is however an arrogant term created by the privileged few and now when the tide is turning they dont like it. (Neither did we!) The world order is changing and eventually China will be a very powerful country as the people are more hardworking,less laidback and far less into finding excuses for their failures than americans. BTW I am not chinese-as must be obvious from my English.
Inflammation of the foreskin
reminds me of your smile
I've had ballanital chancroids
for quite a little while
I gave my heart to NSU
that lovely night in June
I ache for you my darling
and I hope you get well soon.
My penile warts, your herpes
my syphilitic sores
Your moenelial infection
how I miss you more and more
You dobie's itch, my scrumpox
our lovely gonorrhea
At least we both were lying
when we said that we were clear
Our syphilitic kisses
sealed the secret of our tryst
You gave me scrotal pustules
with a quick flickof your wrist
Your trichovaginitis
sent shivers down my spine
I got snail tracks in my anus
when your spirochetes met mine.
Gonococcal urethritis, streptococcal ballinitis,
Meningo myelitis, diplococcal cephalitis,
Epididimitis, interstitial keratitis,
Syphalitic choroiditis, and anterior u-ve-i-tis.
My clapped out genetalia
is not so bad for me
As the complete and utter failure
every time I try to pee.
My doctor says my buboes
are the worst he's ever seen
My scrotum's painted orange
and my balls are turning green.
My heart is very tender
though my parts are awful raw
You might have been infected
but you never were a bore
I'm dying of your love my love
I'm your spirochaetal clown
I've left my body to science
but I'm afraid they've turned it down.
Gonococcal urethritis, streptococcal ballinitis,
Meningo myelitis, diplococcal cephalitis,
Epididimitis, interstitial keratitis,
Syphalitic choroiditis, and anterior u-ve-i-tis.
The hard road Re:AIDS, Africa, & Aid
by
mrmeval
·
· Score: 1
Is to leave them alone with their problems, their pains and their joys.
Rudyard Kipling The White Man's Burden (1899)
First published in McClure's Magazine (Feb. 1899). Electronic Text by students from University Texas, Austin.
Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed-- Go, bind your sons to exile
To serve your captive's need; To wait, in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild-- Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.
Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain, To seek another's profit
And work another's gain.
Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine,
And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest
(The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.
Take up the White Man's burden--
No iron rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things. The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread, Go, make them with your living
And mark them with your dead.
Take up the White Man's burden,
And reap his old reward-- The blame of those ye better
The hate of those ye guard-- The cry of those ye humor
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-- "Why brought ye us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"
Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less-- Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloak your weariness. By all ye will or whisper,
By all ye leave or do, The silent sullen peoples
Shall weigh your God and you.
Take up the White Man's burden!
Have done with childish days-- The lightly-proffered laurel,
The easy ungrudged praise: Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years, Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers.
-- I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long.
--brownkitty
Re: carelessness and immorality
by
jeif1k
·
· Score: 1
The term "criminal negligence" refers to carelessness that causes others harm, and even then, it's a particular kind of carelessness.
Furthermore, not all illegal behaviors are immoral and not all immoral behaviors are illegal.
Slashdot Mirror
Interestingly, it is linked directly to the ugly gene.
With this they probably could make a vaccine or genetically engineer a "virus" that could prevent AIDS*The disorder caused by the HIV virus*
~--~
Do not mind the one with the crazy, for he is sane
Now they can mess around all they want, au natural, and not worry about dying!
Someone call Marvel Comics, we have some new X-men candidates.
Two women found with HIV-immune mutant gene
Wang Zhuoqiong
2004-10-01 05:17
SHENZHEN: Two women have been identified as carrying a mutant gene that is immune to HIV/AIDS, the first such cases uncovered in China, a researcher said.
The finding is the joint effort of a research programme, "Association of Human Genetic Polymorphisms with HIV Affections," jointly conducted by the University of Washington in the US State of Washington and local Infectious Disease Hospitals and medical institutions in Guangdong Province.
Tuofu Zhu, associate professor of University of Washington and associate director of the Clinical Core at the Centre for AIDS Research (CFAR), introduced the programme to China a year ago as a part of his global research in nations in Europe, the Americas, Africa and Asia.
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races,"said Zhu.
China is now at a key moment in adopting effective measures to control and prevent HIV/AIDS as the disease moves from high risk populations to the general population, in most cases though sexual transmission, Zhu pointed out.
Zhu said that setting up a research centre in Guangdong Province is appropriate as its population has made it the best platform for collecting diversified samples.
"With the largest mobile population in China, we can get samples from migrants who are from other parts of the country," said Zhu.
Since a greater number of patients infected with sexual transmitted disease in particular are reported in Guangdong Province, sample collections are more efficient than other regions in China, Zhu added.
So far, according to Zhu, his programme in Shenzhen has identified 11 Exposed Seronegatives (ES) since January.
Zhu explained that the immune systems of some individuals may be capable of resisting HIV infection. These individuals who do not appear to be infected with HIV despite multiple sexual encounters with HIV infected partners are referred to as exposed seronegatives (ES).
To be specific, any one who has conducted sexual activities at least twice weekly in four consecutive months with an HIV-infected partner might be identified as ES.
Of 11 ES cases, two cases have later been identified as carrying the mutant genes.
In Zhu's opinion, if medicine functioning similarly with the genes was put in the vagina and rectum, the HIV virus couldn't find its carrier to enter the human body and thus would be expelled.
In Shenzhen, both confirmed samples are women who have been exposed to HIV for many years but remained uninfected.
One of them, in her 40s, has kept a regular sexual life with her husband without any protection measures for nine years. Her husband, who was infected with the deadly virus by blood transfusion in 1994, was hospitalized in Shenzhen's Donghu Hospital in July last year.
However, due to the limited qualified samples, Zhu said it is still too early to draw any conclusion from the programme, adding "we definitely need more support from the local hospital, medical institutions and government to collect more data from ES people."
main(0)
That would be a great pick up line. "Hey baby, want your kids to be immune?"
On the other hand, if this is for real, how much chance is there for this gene replicating? Human evolution may be happening in front of our very eyes!
Are there any known negative effects from this mutation? I'm envisaging something like sickle cell anemia here.
Just my first thoughts on the subject. I would like to know more about the study.
Didn't they do this in William Gibson's "Virtual Light"? Yet another Gibson prophecy fulfilled.
That's just great, a cure that US Law will say we can't experiment with... Back to the drawing board...
It redirects to a gmail invite, moron.
The only novel thing about this discovery is that it was in Asians, vs. the Caucasian populations in which immunity had previously been reported (and I suppose African as well, even though the Kenyan prostitutes as referenced above turned out to not be immune). The article is pretty worthless, not even listing what the "mutant genes" are, but it's a pretty good guess that CCR5 and/or CXCR4 is involved.
eom
How I was reflecting on Gibsons Virtual Light over my morning coffee this morning and now I hear about the mutant gene that practically fulfills Gibsons prophecy regarding the therapy.
Personally, I would undergo genetic therapy and have my chioldren (when/if I have them) undergo such a therapy if made available. I think this particular finding an excellent example of how far the field of genetics has gone and the promise it shows.
The flip side of course being the perils of falling into the Nazi idealism of creating a master race from a genetic template considered desirable.
Woulden't that be "In Soviet Russia, HIVs are immune to YOU!" ?
Lots of people immune from STDs here.
I swear I saw a documentary on PBS about how a tiny percentage of mostly european descendants are immune and it was because of the Black Death (or Bubonic plague, I'm not sure that those are the same thing.) But googling for answers lead me to this article which says that 10-15 percent of northern europeans have limited immunity due to inheriting 1 resistant gene and 1% inherited the gene from both parents giving them full immunity. And Swedes have the highest percentage. Also it says the Plague is debunked and suggests the everpresent Smallpox as the culprit.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
I, for one, welcome our new mutant overlords, err, overladies.
The most widely held conspiracy theory about HIV and AIDS is that they actually found a cure years ago, but Big Pharma makes more money selling the AZT "drug cocktail" than they would make selling the cure. An independently discovered cure would probably make everything go shitstorm.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
The main story and your post put me in mind of a particular episode of "Secrets of the Dead" that I saw, exploring the plague and its survivors.
I wonder if either of those fellows could have been carriers of the delta 32 gene, a mutated form of the gene CCR5:
"In 1996, research showed that delta 32 prevents HIV from entering human cells and infecting the body"
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/
I didn't see in the article anywhere where it mentioned which gene was affected in the Chinese women, but it seems like to be a different one, based on the information presented in the "Secrets" show:
"O'Brien assembled an international team of scientists to test for the presence of delta 32 around the world. "Native Africans did not have delta 32 at all," O'Brien says, "and when we looked at East Asians and Indians, they were also flat zero." In fact, the levels of delta 32 found in Eyam were only matched in regions of Europe that had been affected by the plague and in America, which was, for the most part, settled by European plague survivors and their descendents."
It was a really good show and if you get the opportunity to watch it, I highly recommend that you do.
soupy twist
Not that everyone agrees it's a good thing...
My nieghbor just said it was slashdotted. I put a mirror up here. http://www.opnotic.com/mirror/page.htm
I am Jack's HTTP Server
Growing up, not too long into adolescence a friend of our family died of complications due to AIDS. I was barely 14 at the time and it struck me how dangerous AIDS really is. For years people used to think that my having no desire to fuck around like most of my peers was that I was gay. Then occassionally I'd let slip the story about our friend it just floored them. The scariest part is that they could have had HIV at the very moment they were thinking, after my telling that story, "but that can't happen to me."
What really struck me was that we saw the guy only about 3-4 months before he died. He was about as healthy as I am now at 21, and I workout on a regular basis. Then a few months later, *BOOM* dead of complication caused by AIDS. The scariest thing about the disease is that you can go without knowing you have it until the last minute.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
1. get some chinese hookers
2. infect em with HIV, and discover that they are immune
3. ???
4. Profit!!!
bash: rtfm: command not found
There have been people found before who should have contracted the disease who didn't. Basically they receptor that's needed isn't there or is damaged. I saw it on tv two years or so ago.
I read "We have a good package to work with." and thought apt-get install aidsmutantgene
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
Does it mean that they're not susceptible to the disease, but that they carry the virus, or that the virus can't invade their immune cells in the first place?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I cant even *get* HIV, you insensitive clod!!!
bash: rtfm: command not found
...Yet another ocurrence of the mutant "clue immunity" gene in the wild.
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
I'm just glad to know SOMEONE will survive if this thing ever becomes airborne. LOL! Three Chinese chicks and a guy in Aboriginal Australia will recreate the human race. Boy, is our species in for a ride!
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
The only way to be immune, then, is for the white blood cells not to attack the virus, or even be in the area of it. The natural self-destruct system in the cells will eventually trigger. Provided the self-destruct triggers faster than the virus can spread, the body would be guaranteed to win.
Or, you could have white blood cells that HIV has difficulty attaching to. No attack vector means that HIV never gets a chance to do its work.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
So.. Anyone have her number?
Hacker Media
Uh, the last time I checked, life was a sexually transmitted disease that was fatal in 100% of the cases.
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
In communist China, you kill AIDS!
They probably simply lack the necassary receptors (t-5?) on their white blood cells for the virus to attack. Probably nothing more than that - most of the vaccinness/treatments now adays are focusing on those areas since if they are blocked the virus can't attach itself.
So is there any proof any of these mutant genes are directly relevent for HIV immunity? How do they test that? Do they acttively give you HIV and see if you get infected? Could it just be a coincidence that the mutant gene shows up in people that are "immune to HIV"? Cause and effect are not the same as correlation.
Why haven't these two posts been modded up?? The parent's post would be correct for most things. But if the virus cannot attach itself, then it cannot propigate and those making the person imune. No matter how many times the viruses adjusts itself, if it can't attach then it can't work.
It's sad that the incredibly *clueless* parent post is modded +5 and yours is not... since you are probably correct and his knowledge of biology could apparently fit on a postage stamp.
Freedom: "I won't!"
Geneva - Researchers have uncovered unusual behaviors of human immune systems that seem to have protected certain babies in Canada, prostitutes in Thailand and Africa, and gay men in San Francisco from HIV, despite exposure to the AIDS virus.
The protections do not appear to be genetic, and may offer some critical clues to those hoping to make a vaccine against HIV.
At Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto, Dr. Kelly MacDonald and a team of pediatricians noticed something odd earlier this year: HIV-positive mothers did not pass the virus to babies who were born with immunologically incompatible blood. In cases of incompatibility, the mother has one genetic type of immune system markers, and the baby a different set. This can put the baby at risk of being attacked by the mother's immune system.
But, in the case of HIV-infected mothers, this immunological incompatibility saved the babies from HIV, MacDonald reported yesterday. The finding was based on a study of 111 mother / child pairs.
MacDonald believes that a key factor in the babies' genetic makeup - called A2/A6802 supertype - by fortunate coincidence prevents HIV from infecting the child. When the mother and child share the same genetic makeup in their immune system, MacDonald discovered, the child is 2.63 times more likely to get infected with HIV.
Since approximately 40 percent of the population worldwide has the A2/A6802 supertype, it makes it an attractive target for vaccine design, MacDonald said.
The U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied 280 prostitutes in Thailand who had worked in brothels for three years or more, and a group of non-prostitute Thai women. Not surprisingly, the prostitutes were far more likely to be infected with the virus, and 47 percent were HIV-positive, the CDC reported yesterday.
Remarkably, however, nine of the prostitutes were negative for HIV, even though they had genital herpes and syphilis - clear indications of unsafe sexual behavior. The women did not have any of the genetic mutations that have been shown to protect some Caucasians from HIV. But they did apparently have complete immunity. Cells of their immune systems were killing every HIV to which they were exposed, the CDC team discovered. And laboratory studies revealed that their CD8 T-cells, a type of white blood cell, were secreting a factor which, when mixed in a petri dish with human cells and HIV, stimulated immune cells to destroy the virus.
Dr. Jay Levy of the University of California in San Francisco has presented evidence of a CD8-produced factor that stops HIV, as well. For years he has tried to isolate the mysterious substance, to no avail. But it could result, he said in a speech, in a way to maintain control of the virus without the need for antiviral drugs.
Sharon Stranford, a researcher in Levy's laboratory, examined the immune system cells of gay San Francisco men who have been exposed repeatedly to HIV and never become infected. She said that the CD8 cells in these men make a mysterious factor that protects against HIV. But it is not the same as the one discovered in Thai prostitutes, Stranford said, because it blocks HIV without prompting immune system cells to kill the virus. It works by blocking the ability of HIV to make copies of itself, Levy said.
Finally, a CDC team working in Abijan, Ivory Coast, has also found a group of uninfected prostitutes. They, too, lack any genetic protection. And their ability to fight off HIV is also immunological. The team hasn't yet worked out the details, researchers said, but it is clear that immune system cells in the African prostitutes are highly activated, as if constantly ready to go to war.
This has taught me that reading foreign newspapers up in the college library is a positive thing. It would be incredible if the scientists working with gene therapy could figure out how to isolate this thing and create an immunity/cure to the virus. Considering the previous effectiveness of such methods, though, my hopes are not high. -Kyle
This is not a major story. It is just meant to be a local story. For example, see this 2002 story: Secrets of Aids 'immunity'. Here is a quote, "Scientists have known since the mid-1980s that some people with HIV do not go on to develop Aids."
--
Bush borrows money to kill Iraqis. 140 billion borrowed. With interest, you pay 200 billion. When Saudis attack, invade Iraq?
First, it's been know for ages, so it's not a new mutation.
The specific 'mutation' involve CCR5, a coreceptor of HIV-1. An uncommun deletion called CCR5delta32 make it so that M-tropic HIV-1 can't enter CCR5+ cells in homozygote individuals (2 copies of the mutant gene). Heterozygotes (having a functional CCR5 and a mutated one) show less resistance to infection (70% resistance, estimated).
HIV-1 can exhibit a tropism (T-tropic) for another coreceptor, CXCR4, for which no mutation is known, so total immunity isn't exact; we can talk about resistance at best. M-tropic viruses are associated with de novo infection, and a switch to T-tropism is thought to be a turning point in the degeneration to AIDS (but not always).
Even CCR5delta32 individuals can be infected (althought have far less risk than you and me). Even then, the infection progress far more slowly than in normal individuals... they're called long term non-progressors. Won't develop AIDS in their lifetime, but still infectious, which can be dangerous...
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
This isn't really new news. AIDS infects by entering a receptor on T-cells which are part of our immune systems. I believe the great plague of the middle ages used this same mechanism. Fortunately, there are variations in the gene that causes variations in the structure of this receptor. Some of the people who survived the plague had this variant of the gene and therefore it's frequency in the population was increased and passed on. It's not surprising that after several hundred years this variant has found its way into different ethnicities, although it is probably most abundant in Europeans.
In other words, you must have a pathetically weak immune system (or none at all), and your body's cells must be so fragile that any abnormality of any kind will destroy them instantly.
A small fraction of people seems to be resistant to HIV infection because they carry idiosyncratic mutations that interfere with the way the HIV virus works. That doesn't mean they have a "pathetically weak immune system"; in fact, such mutations generally have no known effects at all other than conferring HIV resistance. Furthermore, resistance of some fraction of the population to specific viruses is a common occurrence.
But, hey, if that's what these two women want for their life, that's their problem.
WTF is that supposed to mean? One of the women in question was exposed to HIV from her husband, who was infected through a blood transfusion. It's bad enough that bigoted right wingers confuse stupidity and carelessness (unprotected sex) with immorality, but now people like you even consider accidentally getting a tainted blood transfusion a lifestyle choice and a moral failing?
I think you demonstrate just how absurd your kinds of views are, and the blithering nonsense that preceded it showed how uninformed you are.
According to my Chinese friend, the immunity comes from eating stinky fermented tofu and thousand-year egg.
I personally plan to remain vulnerable. Alas.
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
Too bad Chinese women don't believe in sex.
Nothing to see here; Move along.
That sort of makes it sound like there is already an HIV/AIDS cure for caucasians...
From the article:
In Zhu's opinion, if medicine functioning similarly with the genes was put in the vagina and rectum, the HIV virus couldn't find its carrier to enter the human body and thus would be expelled.
Does this make sense to anyone? Granted, these are the reporter's words, not the doctor's words... but that just doesn't sound logical to me. The virus is there, in contact with this "medicine" and your own cells. Because of the medicine's structure, the virus can't affect it, but how does that help your own cells, which do NOT have that protection?
Frankly, the simple (but often unused/misused) "condom" solution seems easier in this example then the medicine he's talking about.
Much of the AIDS epidemic in Africa is directly caused by people misunderstanding how the virus is transmitted and treated (no, sex with virgins or babies won't help you), due in some cases to the sheer stupidity of certain leaders ("HIV does NOT cause AIDS"), poor education programs, and the equally stupid refusal of certain other religious-minded leaders who refuse to support programs that advocate anything other than celibacy to prevent STDs. Madness.
I hope that at a minimum, China is putting some serious resources into educating their population about how HIV/AIDS works, and how to avoid getting it. Obviously that's not the end of the battle, but it's the basic starting point.
Hmmm...Is the parent a nice molecular-biology troll or just a gem of ignorance mixed with self-confidence?
"Because there's very little in the virus that is guaranteed to be common to ALL instances of said virus, it is hard to see how immunity could exist, even in theory."
The resistance mutation depends from the absence of a particular chemokine receptor on human white blood cells. In principle, the HIV virus could use another receptor to enter. In practice it's quite improbable the virus can mutate his whole capsid proteins to get advantage of a totally new receptor.
"Then, you have other problems. HIV is detected in a number of ways, but probably the most common way is to detect the antibodies to the virus. This causes an obvious problem. If your immune system is damaged, in some way, it may not be able to detect the virus and/or produce antibodies to it. Either way, any technique for detecting HIV through the antibodies would fail."
You obviously have no grasp of immunology. HIV infects primarily subsets of T cells. They are not B cells, that produce soluble antibodies. B cells are not attacked by HIV,therefore you argument is bullshit.
(In fact, B cells are indirectly affected by HIV, but only in late stages of AIDS disease.)
"So much so that they could fight the disease and not even need to generate antibodies to do so."
You have no grasp of immunology,it's obvious now. Your body doesn't "feel the need" for antibodies.It just produces them when encounters an antigen. In fact, you probably already have cells with anti-HIV antibodies: they're just very,very few and are not activated.(Wanna know why? RTFM, i.e. a molecular immunology textbook)
"In theory, since we don't actually know in practice."
We know. Check other /. comments and what I wrote before.
"Provided the self-destruct triggers faster than the virus can spread"
It seems you know nothing about virology and apoptosis too...
"...you're probably not going to live very long anyway, and your quality of life isn't going to be noticably better than those with the disease. In fact, it would probably be a whole lot worse. But, hey, if that's what these two women want for their life, that's their problem. "
If these women were immunodeficient, physicians should have noticed it immediately. Such a severe immunodeficience is, like you seem to understand, practically incompatible with life.
-- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize
The women are more than likely "resistant" to HIV infection, not "immune" to it. While colloquially, the two terms may mean the same thing, the term "immune" suggests that they can't be infected by HIV because their immune system recognizes and destroys the virus. "Resistance" works by some mechanism other than an immune response.
The parent post is incredibly clueless. HIV does not mutate all over the place. Someone mod it down.
In fact there is current research trying to identify common sequences to all mutations of HIV which do not appear elsewhere in the human body.
I would be cautious about such reports. Firstly, time and time again such claims are made about particular vaccine or group of people. There was even a case where promitent scientists were so convinced that they have created an attenuated HIV strain as a vaccince candidate, that they were ready to test it on themselves. Fortunatly, cooler heads prevailed and spared them from what was later shown to be a disaster.
:)
... Calling AIDS a disorder is a bit of a misunderstanding....
As was mentioned before, the virus mutates rapidly and a single gene mutation can protect you for so long until virus finds a revertant mutation. So those ladies better not go and have too much fun, thinking that they are immune
Finally, this is not such a rare occurance to have certain protective mutations. Lots of people in Africa are certainly more resistant to HIV. However, unless a combination of those mutations is used in lets say anti-HIV gene therapy (which there is not much chance of) they are not very useful directly.
I see that someone finally updated their virus software. Security experts have been telling everyone for years to keep their virus software updated. But does anyone listen? NOOOOOOOOOO!
You sez:
"... it is linked directly to the ugly gene."
Say it ain't so, buddy.
If the human civilization succumbs to the AIDS epidemic, the NEW human civilization will have those two women as their MOTHERS.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
And now they found it in china. No big deal...
----------
Trust me, that abrupt "stoppage" usually lasts much, much longer than nine months...
:-)
Unless you happen to be Catholic
Actually in order for the HIV infect a cell, it must bind to some receptors present in the cell membrane.
Among those receptors are CD-4 and CCR-5.
You can read more about it here.
And if you thought only us computer geeks could speak unintelligible lingo, here is a proof you were wrong:
CD4 is a 55kd cell surface molecule found on a subset of T lymphocytes utilizing MHC class II antigens as a restriction element for antigen recognition.The mature CD4 protein consists of consists of a 372 amino acid extracellular segment composed of four tandem immunoglobulin-like VJ regions, a 23 amino acid transmembrane domain, and a 33 amino acid cytoplasmic segment. The cDNA sequence is composed 1742 base pairs and 450 amino acids are present in the mature protein. The CD4 locus maps to 12p12-pter and contains 10 exons. CD stands for "cluster of differentiation" and and CD4 is the official destination for the T cell antigen T4/leu3.
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Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
Umm no. Grab an Immunology text and get busy. HIV begins by infecting CCR5+ CXCR4+ CD4+ T cells. B cells are the cells that produce antibodies, not T cells. Early in infection T-h cells are capable of activating B cells, with a corresponding increase of cytokine production (partially responsible for the early "flu" symptoms associated with infection). Early in infection there is a sharp increase in circulating IgG and IgA, so an ELISA/Western blot test for circulating antibodies is certainly justified. How would a body fight HIV. Well even late infection, CD8+ cytotoxic T lymphocytes are still present, albeit in an impaired state due to an impaired generative ability. So, your body can still kill HIV infected cells. This does not even take into account the role of the complement pathway, which will be active at least through mid stage infection, and late stage in some patients. The immune system collapse is due to a loss of Th cells, which are required to modulate the B cell response, and of course Th cytokines are absolutely essential for the functioning of the rest of the immune system. Without these cells, the immune system doesn't do much, let alone fight itself. Where are all the deaths from anaphylaxis, and other hyper immune responses? The way that people are immune to HIV involves HIV entry into Th cells. Individuals with either a modified CCR5 or CXCR4 surface molecule do not support normal HIV entry into T cells. So, no entry, no infection. For your apoptosis suggestion, first learn exactly what apoptosis involves, and how viral replication works. If a cell goes apoptotic with even a few assembled viruses in its cytosol, they will spread. You must have a pathetically weak knowledge of the iummune system (or none at all).
There's so much wrong with this post, it's hard to know where to begin.
... you must have a pathetically weak immune system (or none at all)
HIV is detected in a number of ways, but probably the most common way is to detect the antibodies to the virus. This causes an obvious problem.
Screening for HIV is typically a cheap, fast antibody-based test. However, any positive is then confirmed via much more specific tests.
The only way to be immune, then
WTF do you think HIV does? What does the I in AIDS stand for? HIV doesn't kill people; opportunistic infections kill people whose immune systems are compromised by HIV.
This is like calling a pair of cement shoes in a swimming pool of cyanide "protective" against cyanide poisoning because it'll only take a couple minutes to drown.
Our immune system is actually quite effective at fighting HIV. That's why the symptoms associated with seroconversion last only a few days, and then people end up living a number of years before finally being overwhelmed.
Suggesting that starting off with an immunodeficiency is somehow better than waiting for HIV to give you one is, I think, the most ridiculous bit of interesting/insightfully-moderated random Slashdot speculation I've read in at least 45 minutes.
But, hey, if that's what these two women want for their life, that's their problem.
Nice.
BURNS
Oh, hello, friends. I'm Montgomery Burns, your next governor, and I'm here to talk to you about my little friend here, Blinky. (picks up fishbowl with Blinky in) Many of you consider it to be a hideous genetic mutation. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. But don't take my word for it. Let's ask an actor portraying Charles Darwin what he thinks. (actor enters)
DARWIN
Hello, Mr. Burns.
BURNS
Oh, hello, Charles. Be a good fellow and tell our viewers about your theory of natural selection.
DARWIN
Glad to, Mr. Burns. You see, every so often, Mother Nature changes our animals, giving them bigger teeth, sharper claws, longer legs or, in this case, a third eye. And if the variations turn out to be an improvement, the new animals thrive and multiply, and spread across the face of the earth.
BURNS
So you're saying this fish might actually have an advantage over other fish? It might actually be a kind of "Super Fish".
Those women will thrive and multiply, and spread across the face of the earth!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Well, that's it, kids, the rest of us are officially obsolete.
My site: Free Nature Pictures
The "mutant" gene referred by the article most likely is the CCR5delta32 deletion allele of CCR5. I agree, this is not news. Many of the points made in the article were vague and the discovery itself is nothing novel -- even if they determined the frequency of this allele in the Chinese, this is not a new finding. In Steve O'Brien's Science paper, the frequency of CCR5delta32 in Caucasions is 0.1 (2.8% of exposed uninfected patients were deletion homozygotes). I remember another population study among Koreans to try to determine CCR5delta32's frequency in that population.
Even the statement about putting the "gene" in the vagina or rectum is not new: see microbicides.
Just a word to the wise, news like this will rarely, if ever, scoop a scientific publication in Science or Nature. If the discoveries truly have any scientific merit whatsoever, you'll more likely read about it in these journals or the media commotion stirred by these publications. In other words, unless somewhere in the article is says "results of these studies published in the journal [place name of journal here]," the results have not been peer reviewed. Therefore, "there's nothing to see here, move on."
Linux at home
Early this year, some work at Rockefeller University looked promising, but then came a retraction. A lab technique problem made the results look better than they were. Work continues to try to unscramble this mess. Because there are so few people showing this kind of immunity, it's hard to figure out what's really going on.
These people are benign carriers; i.e. they can infect others. This isn't like a vaccine response.
You sez:
"culturally Asians seem to be a lot less
promiscuous, which would imply that this
disaster doesn't seem so imminent"
This is so only to show others.
Asian culture is at its best in the sex scene.
On one hand, they will pretend that they are not sexually promiscuous, and on the other hand, the vast majority of Child Prostitution in the world happen throughout Asian countries. You can find child prostitutes in Indonesia, China, India, Kampuchia (formerly known as Cambodia), Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Taiwan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Hong Kong, The Philippines, Malaysia and so on.
If you are willing to pay, you can even participate in the "deflowering" act, where you'd get a virgin child - male or female - for his / her first night.
What you do to them, as long as you don't kill them, is entirely up to you.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Surely this is just the process of natural selection. Cast aside the concept of gene manipulation and mass media to inform people of the risks of HIV, and you would end up with some of the population immune and living, and the rest dead. Therefore the human race would have evolved to be immune to HIV. So back to genes and media, have we evolved so far that we are further helping evolution, or are putting it at risk by stopping natural selection?
Gohnorrea...s .....
Herpes....
Chlamydia....
Syphilli
Genital Warts...
HPV....
Hepatitus...
Trichomoniasis..
I know! Things the average Slashdotter won't ever have to worry about.
ding ding ding
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Sorry, link for parent post is here
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Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
Hehe and its so nice being able to understand every word of that :P
Well just so you understand, Africans are not simply running around having sex with everyone they see and contracting AIDS. A number of factors including a poor medical system, infected medicinal needles, and contaminated blood have also played a role in many of the infection cases. Exactly, how big of a role is debatable, but I have seen some estimates from studies conducted here in the US that concluded that as much as 60% of the current number of AIDS cases in Africa can be attributed to those factors. If the Middle Eastern and Asian countries do not mitigate those same factors, an epidemic would occur regardless of perceived promiscuity.
A random mutation grants a survival advantage, just like evolutionary theory predicts.
Doesn't that also cause cancer?
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
I read something similiar in time magazine last year about a tribe of women in africa who had a similiar mutant gene.. anyone else hear/read about it?
God is real unless declared as int
It's interesting that the mutation has been found in the Asian population, but I'm concerned that the article places an emphasis on ideas of race, which has been an obsolete scientific term since genetic research in the 1940s and 50s.
Race and the idea of race have are not medical ideas. The reason why so many Europeans (not merely Caucasians) have one or two copies of the mutant gene is because of the bottle neck of the black plague throughout Europe. It afforded them some or cmplete resistance to it. It is entirely possible that the Chinese people found to have the gene may have these ancestors themselves. As Chinese "asians" are just as much a mix of people from different places as "caucasians".
There is no scientific basis for ideas of race whatsoever - we are all homo sapiens.
Of all the genes in human being, about 75 per cent are identical in every person; only 25 per cent vary from person to person. And of that variable amount, 85 per cent of the difference would be present even if the two people were fairly closely related; that is, an ethnic subgroup, like Norwegians. Another 9 per cent of the genetic variation will result from individuals being members of separate nations or tribes within a "race"--a Spaniard and an Italian, for example. And only about 6 per cent is the result of the two people being from what we call separate races. Any person's race accounts for only about 0.24 per cent (or 6 per cent of 25 per cent) of his genetic make-up.
Info taken from here.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
I saw a show on PBS that discussed the Plague and how some medievals didn't die when infected. It then went to discuss a gay man who was HIV resistant. the guy must've felt like a highlander - all his friends kept dying off and he expected to die off also but though infected with HIV it never
If HIV mutates so fast, why wouldn't some sort of super-HIV exist? Why doesn't HIV mutate every other time some often into some non-sexually transmitted form (maybe airborne,) easy spreading as common cold, and/or with a latent period of weeks instead of years? I guess it would only make for isolated outbursts, like Ebola or West Nile, but why no outbursts yet?
Because it's a retrovirus, it needs to get into the cell to operate. Activating or deactivating internal mechanisms in the cell wouldn't do much for it, which is what attaching to a receptor would do.
This means that it needs to cross the cell membrane and reach the nucleus. It also means that it must have a functional mechanism for copying itself into the DNA sequence. The outside structure would not appear to affect these events, with one exception.
The exception would be if the cell membrane is unusual, in the sense of preventing the virus from getting through. Viruses are small, but when you compare them to the stuff a cell actually needs (eg: amino acids, simple sugars, etc) a virus is absolutely gigantic.
(A simple protein is a chain of 3 amino acids. So the smallest unit you can consider is already considerably larger than the sorts of molecules the cell actually wants. Hepadnaviruses - the smallest viruses known - can be arounf 3,200 nucleotides long. The SARS virus is 29,727 nucleotides in length. These are all very very large molecules.)
Actually, retroviruses carry a spiked outer coating to burst their way through the membrane. Which I guess answers the question of how they can get in, and not need the receptors.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Do you have their contact info?
More like: "if it's got boobs, it will turn and run away"
I didn't the show, but I do remember reading on a relation between plague survivors and the mutant gene. I can't remember if it was a gene that prevent transfers, or a gene not present which the virus needed in order to propogate within the host.
It's not unthinkable though, that a plague or other nasty disease could in fact mutate cells causing genetic alterations in later descenendants...
Right - that's why Chinese people don't reproduce, and that's why there aren't so many. WTF?
--
make install -not war
As long as you're going to be using gene therapy to bring the world's genes into a better state, at least. The problem with Nazi Germany was that their method for creating a master race was based around simple husbandry - those with genes percieved as inferior are not permitted to breed into the master race.
... hence Huxley's book "Brave New World". .. or shall I say .. satisfaction. In the meantime however, all children were born via "test tubes" not any form of forced inception, but entirely based upon "desired gentic traits" ie: the template I briefly mentioned.
i tler+Eugenics&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8">Eugeni cs in America. The Golden Sate is not as golden as it may seem :) and while we're discussing dissions based upon the subject of late 19th and early 20th century psychology, why not look at the story of Francis Bean.
... for it will probably leave you introspective, sickened and depressed to a degree and likely take you a week to digest and leave you voting Democratic.
Thank you for bringing that up so I may touch upon that without being (i hope) off topic.
Gene selection and euthenasia were hand in hand for the first part of our century
Desired genetic traits for the "Intellectual Class" were kept in social cell and had Government Sponsered orgies for the sake of deliberate Intercourse
Huxley's foresight into the matter was based around events and technology of the current day. The US State of California was as adament about Genetic Selection as Hitler was and supported a system of Eugenics based upon social class and "state of desired mental attribute" as proscribed by mental therapists in the early 20th Century into the near-min 20th Century. This is a very lengthy topic however and one that is not very popular to discuss. So I would recommend as a starting point this link to SFGate which is an unashamed freethinking rag spun off from the SF Chronical. See link here. While that may sum it up in a very limited Fashion, you may care to Google Search for a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=California+H
I'd recommend renting a very happy movie of your choice to put into the DVD player after reading all that
This is off topic but im sure some will find it interesting...A few years ago I was reading the russian newspaper and I saw a very interesting article about a doctor getting rid of the HIV virus by rasing the body temperture of the patient to i belive around 120 degrees...once the virus gets exposed to that temperture it gets destroyed but the patient clinicly dies also and needs to be revieved after the procedure...as u may guess not everyone got revived the right way but i think the guy had more than a 50% succes rate...im not sure if it is still being done or not but for someone who is about to die its not a bad chance to live...I don't remember if the precedure works on HIV positive patients or Full blown AIDS patients...for someone with AIDS it's not a bad chance to live...it's obviusly kinda barbaric and the patient is hevily drugged and dosent feel any pain and something gets applied to the skin to prevent 3rd degree burns...does anyone think this is a good idea?
The key is the fact the Gene patens have blocked research into it. Every time a lab does something with the caucasian mutation this lab send out a cease and desist. They guy who they found it on originally is opposed to it, but he has no say, even if it is his body. Another thing software and genes have in common, neither should have patents.
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
HIV mutates faster than virtually any other virus. Indeed, early vaccine attempts were foiled by the ability of the virus to "reactivate" itself, after being disabled. Because there's very little in the virus that is guaranteed to be common to ALL instances of said virus, it is hard to see how immunity could exist, even in theory.
Other primates are already immune to HIV - Chimps, it seems, caught it a long time ago. It decimated their population - but some had the immunity. All chimps today are immune to it.
Coming soon - pyrogyra
I knew mother nature would come up with a solution first :)
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I don't necessarily forsee this as the "true" future, but a few comments here got me thinking in this direction, and, well, it's an interesting "What if" thing to think about.
A lot of work has been done in the field of "engineering" human life. We now create babies in a laboratory, in test tubes. Many plants are genetically altered.
Suppose the "cure for AIDS" wasn't a pill, but just something you could give to your children, who would be "grown" in a lab, based on a mother and father's DNA, to be AIDS-immune.
How many people would even be willing to do this? And, assuming a sufficient quantity did, would the AIDS-immune minority (presumably) eventually dominate, by Darwin's Theory? Would this vulnerable to AIDS eventually just all die off, leaving only genetically-altered humans?
This is nothing more than wild conjecture; a work of fiction, really. But it's because of comments here that I started wondering. And it doesn't seem entirely implausible, really.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Creationists have no problem with evolution on this level. What they have a problem with is that evolution can account for the development of different species, or that it somehow allows a puddle of goo somewhere in France to became human.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
I'm not well-versed on HIV or AIDS. But I have a simple, stupid question.
To fight off the flu, you essentially give someone the flu, you just only give them a small amount. (And it's usually "dead," so that it can't infect them.) The body 'learns' to defend against it, so that if the 'full strength' flu hits, you can prevent it. This is a basic fact of how most preventative immunizations work.
Why doesn't this work for HIV/AIDS? Wouldn't someone receiving a tiny bit of the AIDS virus become immune to AIDS? I'm assuming that someone much smarter than myself has attempted this, and that it doesn't work. I'm just curious as to why. (And, as I said, I don't pretend to know much about HIV, AIDS, or medicine in general.)
________________________________________________
suwain_2
This gene has been known of for quite some time. What is odd is that it was previously thought that only (primarily) caucasians had the mutant gene.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
dude, a lot of people on slashdot have got boobs. Pizza + pepsi all day will do that to either gender...
Even researchers can't keep up with the bombardment
of papers. Sometimes, you get more information from
the BBC having a 2 week session of information about
HIV or whatever simply because it rolls up and
summarizes...
Heres the punchline:
1. First documented human case of HIV c.a. 1960.
No, not the infamous canadian airline steward.
2. First (estimated) crossover from simians to
humans. c.a. 1936.
Ouch.
As a sidenote, my jewish nude artist's model's
friends knew about this disease *before* the
squabble between Gallo and Luc what's his name
and before it even had the name HLTV-3.
This was c.a. 1982. I hadn't seen any information
in SciAm or anywhere else (ok, I *used* to read
Nature, but I'm a sad person).
Don't let the stuff about immunity make you complacent. Wear a sock. Heck, wear serious
protection. Stay alive.
HIV's primary vector is blood-to-blood contact. I think it's just slightly more likely that someone became infected by butchering an SIV infected primate for food and getting blood contact, rather than the more sensational concept of interspecies sex. Of course, people always prefer the more lurid and shocking possibilities over more mundane (and likely) causes.
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
And virtually everyone has one form of HPV or another.
Last I heard, there were over 90 strains, and several are common on even non sexually-active folks.
HPV transmits through skin contact, so rubbers won't prevent it. But the VAST majority of the time it does NOTHING, no warts, no cancers, NOTHING. Certain combinations of strains seem to cause the warts, and that's far less common than having no symptoms at all.
Overall, I think there's a LOT of fear mongering about STDs. The problem is really much more prevalent amongst the poor and uneducated. If you pick your partners right, and 'look before you leap' you have pretty good chances of coming out OK. It's good to get your partner to prove no infection before you hit it raw though, and you should go 'get swabbed' every year or so.
Also remember, there are less than 100,000 women with HIV in the United States. Your chances of sleeping with an HIV-infected female pickup in the USA is about 1 in 1500. Your chances of CONTRACTING HIV from that would be under 1 in 30,000. For non-junkie heterosexual men seeking women in the USA, your chance of being infected with HIV is almost nothing. Worry about the nasty STDs instead.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
from my experience, culturally Asians seem to be a lot less promiscuous
;-)
Being turned down by asian chicks doesn't mean asian cultures are less promiscuous
You can't take the sky from me...
Read this and learn:
Origin of HIV
Genome sequencing of different isolates of HIV-1 and HIV-2 shows that each is related to retroviruses that occur in primates in Africa. These are designated simian immunodeficiency viruses (SIV) although they do not cause immune deficiency (or any disease) in their natural host. However, on those occasions when a SIV accidentally infects a primate of a different species, it does cause disease in the new host. The human epidemic is one example.
HIV-1 is most closely related to a SIV found in chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes troglodytes)
HIV-2 is most closely related to a SIV that occurs in the sooty mangabey (Cercocebus atys).
Genome analysis also permits the construction of phylogenetic trees which reveal different clades of HIV just as such analysis reveals evolutionary relationship between species.
(emphasis mine)
Coming soon - pyrogyra
China Daily reports that researcher Tuofu Zhu has discovered two women in an HIV Research program that are immune to the disorder via a mutant gene. [my emphasis]
A disorder? We're talking about a virus here!
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
China and India are in the "developing" world, not the 3rd world, get it straight.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I've read about researchers finding African women that exhibited the same thing. This isn't a first, though it is a good thing.
May we never see th
Yeah, my flatmate fell for that one for a while too.
http://www.thebody.com/amfar/krim.html
Many thoroughly debunked theories are still convincing when you only read one side of them.
(take for example all the evidence we never sent a man to the moon)
I remember seeing that the guy with the mutation was told to check himself after he had spent a large number of years, like the older woman in the article, having relations with his fatally infected homosexual lover and several others. This was during the AIDS scare back in the 1980's.
The tests were run several times by exposing his genetically mutated blood to 300 times the required contagious dose of the virus, and seeing the cell walls resist the normal absorption that protects and carries the virus to delicate parts of our system.
I'm not a biologyst --as well as I can remember this is what was described in the program, and the first half was about his medieval family tree. It confirmed that he had the same genes that were curiously immune to the HIV-like virus of the Black Plague, back in the dark ages.
"Wireless : LAN
Why is this modded Informative? The parent is implying that these 2 women developed a mutation that made them immune to the HIV virus. This is a total misconception of how evolution works. This is not a comic book people, Evolution works as trends within species. The mutation described in the article is clearly a coincidental mutation that came about much earlier, not one that evolved due to the current 25-year-old aids epidemic.
Actually, I once saw a show on PBS where some scientists did a clever test. They took a whole bunch of photographs of people's faces and morphed them together, to create a picture of a composite human face. Most people who saw the face and were asked whether it was an attractive person agreed that it was.
The idea here is that what the scientists did was create a completely average face -- that is, mathematically average. Faces with big noses, or big chins, or buggy eyes, were cancelled out by the majority of faces that didn't share those features. In the end, what you got was a face every feature of which was the "norm" for the human race at large.
So the conclusion you could draw from this study is that the people we find the most attractive are the ones with the least apparent variation. A particularly exaggerated feature on a face might be viewed as a sign that some radical genetic divergence has taken place in that person's development -- and we don't care much for that, as a species. While diversity might be good for evolution, we like the norm (and this has nothing to do with skin color or the facial features of any particular ethnicity; so far as I know the scientists used a whole cross-section of people).
So if this theory is true, then no, human standards of beauty are not actually as relative as romantics might assume.
Breakfast served all day!
Some ppl were found to be alive and well in towns that were .
.
.
completely wiped out by the black plague, they did some gene
research and linked it to the specific marker CCR5 Delta 32,
and those ppl that had the marker from both lines of their
parents were immune, and if just one were resisitant and had a
chance of living through the black plague but contracting it
The ppl that had both markers from both parents were immune
They found this same gene mutations has the same effect with
AIDs as it blocks the uptake process needed to do its terrible
process
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
http://www.geocities.com/endeavour_uksa/article.ht ml
s _n6_v18/ai_19447788/pg_2
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/i
I remember watching an episode of "the secrets of the dead" which showed people who were exposed to the plague bacterium during the 17th century, developed an immunity towards the HIV virus.
u t. html
Apparently there are descendents of those who were exposed to the plague among us who are immune to the virus.
check out:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/abo
most AIDS-related deaths aren't due to the virus itself, but rather it weakening your immune system enough for something else to get you.
That is in fact how everyone does from AIDS. A weak immune system isn't itself terminal, however, without defenses otherwise weak illnesses are life-threatening.
IMO it's a very weird idea of causation that wants to say the main factor leading to death (the virus) is not a cause, just because there had to be a second contributory factor there as well.
As noted in the immediate parent post, the HIV virus breaks its sufferers so badly, that they die from something normally minor, that others just bounce off. Saying these deaths 'aren't due' to the virus is like saying that the spark didn't cause that forest fire, because, see, there was all that oxygen around, and that's what caused the fire, wouldn't have happened without it y'know!
-wb-
While testing and education and condom availability are all good things, the spread of HIV has far more to do with the reality of human behavioral problems.
HIV is not an easy disease to contract, compared with many other STDs. Most people with HIV get it by getting infected blood injected into their veins or through rough anal sex (the inside of the ass has thin walls and is easy to injure; it's far easier to transmit HIV anally than vaginally).
The reason HIV didn't flood through into heterosexual populations as was predicted is because HIV largely flows from the penetrator to the penetrated. The infection risk is far lower for the man in vaginal sex and the top in anal sex.
Many gay men were infected quickly because gay men frequently trade positions, making them not only engaging in riskier anal sex, but also alternating between insertive and receptive roles, giving them more equal chances to get infected and also be in a position to infect others.
Straight men and women act as a firebreak; in the US, there aren't large populations of men who have sex with both sexes and trade positions in sex. Infected women are far less likely to infect other men, so infection can't spread as quickly.
The epidemic in Africa is largely a problem with extreme poverty and women lacking the empowerment to chose who they have sex with. Differences in society mean African men are more likely to have sex with whoever is available (not limited to heterosexual partners) and that women are often not given a choice in partners AND in the use of protection. The result is that while every populated continent on earth has around a million or less infected with HIV, Africa has around 38 million infected.
The HIV epidemic is rooted deeply in entrenched behavior patterns that aren't changing with a bit of PSAs and some more research, or even the discovery of some wonderdrug.
We are struggling to keep up with antibiotics for common bacterial infections. HIV is mutating as well.
Additionally, the epidemic is migrating from the rich and famous to the poor and forgotten, and known treatments are very expensive, leaving the African poor without treatments available in the US. That means the even if the US were to find an HIV-cure, the epidemic in Africa would likely birth cure-resistant strains exported back to the west. We already have strains here that don't respond to the existing treatments we have for managing the disease.
So Jerkcity, its a bit early to wave your condom in triumph and laugh at your imaginary god. We are still in lots of hurt.
In other other words the mutation might stop you dying in childhood from malaria, only to see an increased chance that you die painfully in adulthood. The mutation is only semi-recessive so even if you get it from one parent you will exhibit some symptoms. If you're really unfortunate however, both parents will pass on the mutation to you in which case you're really screwed.
From the DNA's perspective the mutation is still successful since it means a greater chance of reproducing (over the more malaria prone normal gene pool). But it it's not so great for the individual whose natural defence against malaria could see them die painfully and prematurely in either case.
So the fact that there is a gene that grants increased immunity to HIV is meaningless unless it has no other sideeffects. If these women consequently die of breast cancer or something else as a result of it, it could hardly be said to be a 'miracle cure'.
yea right. so how did so amny thigns get invented and built before patents?
non process patents stifle inovations, patents were supposed to be applied to a process, not a general idea.
and how can you patent DNA? i mean i'm made up of DNA so isn't that DNA mine? and any geans in it?
And this is a direct, unedited, yes I RTFA quote:
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Caucasians. The finding has encouraged us to do further research in China, with the aim of developing medicines to prevent and cure HIV/AIDS for different races,"said Zhu. "
So 'before', when white-people, like myself, had this gene and it was identified and being considered, it wasn't REALLY studied that hard. But now that a Chinese person has it, they're going to study it?
Nice.
If you substitute the word Caucasion for blacks or hispanics, there would be cries of racism from any other ethnic group:
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Blacks."
"Before, such mutant genes were only found in Hispanics."
Long Live ANON
This is not a major story. It is just meant to be a local story. For example, see this 2002 story: Secrets of Aids 'immunity'. Here is a quote, "Scientists have known since the mid-1980s that some people with HIV do not go on to develop Aids."
--
Bush borrows money to kill Iraqis. 140 billion borrowed. With interest, you pay 200 billion. When Saudis attack, invade Iraq?
"Quick, let's patent the gene so nobody can develop a cure!"
Sadly, that is probably what'll happen with this discovery. It has happened before.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
On one hand you have scientists saying that chimpanzees are 98.5% identical to humans.
On the other hand you have scientits saying that race accounts of 0.24 percent of total make up.
So, sure the difference in terms of genetic material is small, but where's the proof that the 0.24% is _insignificant_?
You have races with different propensity to diseases- e.g. cystic fibrosis. So there _are_ racial differences.
So, ignoring political correctness (which is unscientific), it's naive to say there's no such thing as race. It's like saying that one breed of dog is identical to another (e.g. beagles vs dalmations). Sure they can breed with each other, but there are differences - temperament, intelligence, physique, propensity to diseases/ailments.
Significance is relative: to alien beings we're probably not really different from a nematode worms or mice. But we are different.
STDs calm down to asymptomatic pretty quickly because an obviously symptomatic person has trouble with both reproducing and spreading the disease. People vulnerable to the disease don't breed, strains of the disease that are too obvious have the same problem, and boom.
This, more than penicillin, is why syphillis isn't the problem it used to be. It was awful in 1890, but a hundred years before it was horrifying. These days, even when untreated, the symptoms rarely cause a problem. People die before they hit the neuropathy.
Given that HIV is not very contagious and is sexually/blood transmitted, it is not correct to assume that humans would evolve genetically to be immune to HIV.
Groups of people who are monogamous would as a whole be much less vulnerable to such diseases.
While they are not immune, they won't necessarily get infected. They are less likely to develop such immunity - with respect to genes related to the immune system. But if you view it with respect to genes related to monogamy, perhaps those may evolve given enough selection pressure.
There was a study on vasopressin, its receptors and the effects on monogamous prairie voles and polygamous mice.
Perhaps this would be a good place to mention FightAIDS@Home, which is a distributed computing project like SETI@Home. It is used for research into newer drugs to keep up with the mutability of the HIV virus, which has been termed computational co-evolution. It only runs on Windows so far. OS X and Linux versions are supposedly in the works, but they've been taking ages.
Please give us news about diseases we can actually get.
In fact, these are also not the first two women to have been found immune (more or less) to the HIV Virus. The CCR5 Chemokine co-Receptor Defect has been well documented in the past as preventing HIV from attaching to cells well enough to infect. In fact, this was documented in 1996 or so.
Journal of the Plague Years
'Course, this time, the secret's out at the beginning of the novel.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
The company who found the genes on the guy probably wouldn't have had any motivation to do so if they couldn't protect it with patent.
Ok, so with millions of people dying all around, with the human race possibly facing extinction, there is absolutely no motivation to find said genes?
"It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
Sexuality appears to be as much to do with the parenting environment as genetic or environment within the womb where both twins are subjected to the same genes and environment. It's a common misconception that identical twins are brought up in an identical manner.
Where identical twins have been brought up under completely different conditions and one is gay, there is only a 50% correlation with the sexuality of the other twin. This suggests that the environment plays a significant role in the development of sexuality, though the genes or conditions within the womb also play a role.
Basically, it's not simply one thing.
Deleted
The title implies that this is a new discovery, not so, just that it's never been found in asians before. How long has this been known/studied in other ethnic groups?
Is this gene tied to anything else besides resistance to AIDS? I mean, what it does is all well and good, but does it also cause cancer in 30 years?
Is this something that could be used as a vaccine? You hear about genetic manipulation through manufactured retroviruses, am I confusing sci-fi with real science, or could this be used as a "genetic vaccine" someday?
TFA mentions people who are Exposed Seronegative, or something like that, which seems to mean that they've been repeatedly exposed to AIDS and never contracted it. Does this gene confer complete immunity, or just a resistance? Not much info here, could find much on google either, very interested!
There is no scientific basis for ideas of race whatsoever - we are all homo sapiens.
Nor any basis in Christianity (note the "one blood" part):
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language= english&version=KJV&passage=acts+17%3A26&x=0&y =0
This is how it begins. A few small subtle changes here and there. Now one of those changes has given some people the unfair advantage over the rest of us. We NEED to stop this mutant problem before it becomes a crisis. I say we eliminate these women before more of them start coming out and taking over.
Who's With Me?
I don't really know what it means to be 'immune' to HIV, but I can tell you there are a large number of highly qualified scientists out there who either question the very existance of the HIV virus or whether or not HIV is capable of causing AIDS. These are not your normal run of the mill Internet whack-jobs with a pet conspiracy theory. A good place to start is http://www.aliveandwell.org/, click the "Rethinking AIDS" link.
This site was founded by Christine Maggiore, a married, heterosexual white women (not the normal risk group), who has tested positive for the 'HIV' virus in 1992. At first she became an AIDS activist, but as she delved deeper into AIDS/HIV research she began to question everything she though she knew about the virus and the disease, and wrote a book about her findings. She calls into question the accuracy of the HIV test, the assumption that HIV causes AIDS, and the efficacy/safety of anti-retroviral drugs.
Today, over 12 years after her diagnosis, she takes no anti-retroviral drugs, and is in perfect health. She has had two healthy children since her diagnosis, and refuses to test or treat either of them for HIV. She actively campaigns for mother's rights to refuse the HIV test and AIDS drug treatments for themselves and their children.
Don't just assume that the mainstream scientific beliefs about HIV and AIDS are correct. Do some research on your own. Google 'AIDS dissidents' and 'Rethinking AIDS'. There is a lot out there. Judge for yourself.
One perecent of caucausians have a defect in the CCR5 cell surface protein that prevents HIV infection. This is thought to have been related to the bubonic plague survival too.
Unfortunately, I think that is sadly very close to the case. Corporations are not people. And Mega-Corporations are about as far from human as you can get. They live for the 2 purposes of profiting and growth.
I'm really starting to think that we should abolish the perpetual corporation...Limited ones for specific purposes are fine, but SHEESH- Kill it off or we won't have to worry about who our next president is, or if we'll die from an under-researched disease- the Allmighty Corporation will make all our decisions and kill us off if we so much as look at it funny...
Sig currently under construction. Mind the gap....
*wry grin* Yeah, with proper application, you can reduce your risk by about 3/4. Like getting pregnant, catching AIDS is not a guaranteed matter even with unprotected sex. Condoms reduce the risk, but it's still a gamble to have sex with anyone who you don't know for sure isn't HIV positive. And honestly, I think that's why the problem is not licked in developed countries. People will always play the odds, believing they won't be a statistic.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
If you leave the R&D to corps, then yes. I was thinking more along the lines of the research being funded by government grants and done at universities sort of thing.
But since I don't live in the corporate states of america, I might have a skewed view of things....
"It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
Which of course is interesting considering the theory that genius in either the left or right brain is said to cause the opposite side of the face to be larger than its counter-part (look at pictures of geniuses in history). I guess the two theories together help to prove a third 'Beautiful people are usually not too bright'
I'm too lazy to google search for links to back this up (I'll do it later) but as high as 4% of certain people (mostly eastern Europeans) have a genetic make up that makes them imune to HIV (but not AIDS). It is believed that their ancestors with whom they share these genetic traits were the survivors of the black plauge. As many may know there were some doctors, people etc that were constantly around the plauge working with those that were dying, yet never contracted it. Many studies have been done that find similarities in how the body reacts to each disease. Those who carry these genes can be injected with HIV (again NOT with AIDS, but with HIV) and their bodies kick the hell out of it. Inject them with the full blown AIDS variant however and they become mortal.
I boycott signatures
Yes, some are curable, but most of these are more transmittable than HIV. Some can cause entry points for HIV. Even if they are curable does not mean that they will be. Dysentery is still killing and mostly curable.
Please do not label this FLAMEBAIT, because that is not the intent.
Decades ago, the native African population existed in a state of equilibrium with nature. Part of that equilibrium entailed each woman (polygamy was--and actually is--common) birthing up to 9 infants in order to ensure at least one surviving to adulthood.
Then comes the Western do-gooder, apalled at the poverty, infant mortality, disease, non-existent medical care, and food shortage. Aid from Western countries poured in. Now the indigenous population had means to thrive and grow. Problem was (and is), women continued to birth up to 9 infants--but most if not all survived. The population exploded then spiked--then came another form of AID, nature's way of restoring equilibrium in an environment taxed beyond carrying capacity.
The spread of AIDs will never stop in backward African countries so long as the population remains ignorant. Promotion of condom use? "Don't you know the mzungu (white man) puts the AIDs in the condoms?" Abstinence? What a joke.
The only "cure" for AIDs (for now, at leaset) is education. Problem is, the educatee must want to be educated. It is hard to battle against several millenia of tradition and superstition.
Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
In communist China, you kill AIDS!
in Bush's America, AIDS kills YOU!
doh!
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
You can find child prostitutes in any country in the world, including the US, UK, France, Germany, Austrailia, etc. It's not a problem that's unique to Asia, so don't try to paint it that way, please.
True, it's not a unique problem. But because Euro and US currency is so strong compared to these countries, you can get prostitutes for mere dollars. Secondly, law enforcement in these countries can literally be bought to turn a blind eye. The problem may be worldwide, but due to the ease of accessibility and the economics of the situation, Asian countries bear the brunt of the problem -- scratch that, poor countries with open borders for the influx of US and European "vacationers" bear the brunt of the problem.
Now back to the main point of this article. The social implications are chilling. Wives, do you know what your husbands did in that "business trip?" American women should be suspicious of their husband's behavior. It's a fact that a certain demographic of American women are unsuspectedly infected by their husbands.
I for one agree with proponents of the new law that if you commit a crime outside of your country, you can be prosecuted when you return, to the fullest extent of the law. If you were a Jon, preying upon children in Asian countries, the instant you step on US soil, your ass is grass. It's despicable what these Jons do. They have no idea of the global impact that these actions have -- ravaging the future of another country (the children), spreading disease and suffering, all for what? It's sick.
Linux at home
Carelessness IS immoral. Have you never heard the term "criminal negligence?"
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
The Term "Third World" implies that a "First World" and a "Second World" also exist. Where might these be located?
Better Call "Home World Security" - We need to locate the first two missing worlds before the third one disappears.
And lacking modern medicone, those people die, just like evolutionary theory predicts. The only problem is that modern medicine, while exending our lives and the quality of them, is throwing a bit of a monkey wrench in Darwinism. Not saying it's a bad thing but it should be noted.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
I've actually often wondered if the divorce rate would go up with the cure? I think a lot of people have gotten married, or at least stayed married due to the dangerous sex scare. If there was a cure, wonder how many men would be going "see ya later babe...gotta find me some strange.."
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Huh? Excuse me, but as IIII understand it, that man doesn't want contraception ideas or products being discussed when federal aid money is used domestically OR abroad. By imposing his draconian, immaterial RELIGOUS thoughts or order upon a nation that never had christianity until it was COLONized, the man seems to be a MENace to that society.
By decreasing or threatening to cut desperately needed money, resources and information to a continent ravaged by a horrible things as AIDS or even HIV, the man is imposing a death sentence upon many.
If christianity were run more like a personal belief than a corporate, god-ordained corporation in a battle for life or death, then maybe ("aside from the monkey/ape/gorilla in the forest spread it") story, then maybe, just MAYbe not so many people there would have it. The same could be said for other nations/continents where AIDS and HIV are rampant, including in the US and Asian countries. Our so-called "leaders" need to keep their damned religous beliefs tempered and out of policy making. IFFF "god"/"God" exists to mete out our individual punishment, then let GOD do it at judgement day. Believers and pushers of their own god have caused enough mayhem for many generations and need to chill out. If god wants people to murder in his/her/it's name, then let the absentee landlord come here and do it personally instead of via cretenous organic proxies hell-bent on power trips! There is enough awe and wonder in nature to inspire a belief in a Diety that represents or cares for all life, but just enough despicable behavior in HUMANS to call into question how long this "shit" of murder, exploitation, gleeful execution, WMDs, misplaced distribution of Earth's resources, graft, and more must persist to "prove God cares".
Unfortunately, as long as HIV remains costly to combat, and as long as certain pharmaceuticles insist on pricing treatment at some $250 to $500 per day for a near-lethal-to-not-so/as-hal coctail mixture, then only the ultra wealthy who happen to get HIV can realistically combat it. Maybe those in trials might be lucky if their group gets the safer coctail instead of the placebo or even the weakened version of treatment.
If I'm mistaken about bush, then maybe you can point a refuting URL that says he INCREASED, WITHOUT STRINGS (his personal religious impositions, the amount of money and communication and resources.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Because no matter how well you educate a population, some percentage of said population is just plain stupid.
These are the people that sue McDonalds for not warning them that the coffee is hot, or for not warning their children not to eat the styrofoam box the pancakes came in.
Call me what you will, but I think these people deserve what they get.
There's no long-term threat to humanity here -- the mutant gene exists, and over the course of the next century or two, those that carry it will out-reproduce those who do not. It's happened before, and it'll happen again. Evolution finds a way.
But in the short term, why cure a disease or vaccinate against it when you can charge $10-20K/month, times millions infected, to manage it?
You're saying the people whose disease you're managing don't have the money to cover the cost of treament? No problem! Have the government step in and take it from the healthy taxpayers on their behalf! Always a few more sheep to be sheared, especially if it's for a good cause!
The day some wise-ass develops a cure or (worse-yet) one-time vaccine, that revenue stream dries up in 5 years, not 50.
Just be thankful that AIDS is more easily prevented than polio, because if polio were around today, we'd all be typing from inside iron lungs.
The black plague theory about Delta 32 is questionable. Two published studies (one by me, in fact) have shown that it is not very plausible that the bubonic plague caused enough natural selection to have produced the modern day frequencies of the Delta 32 mutation in Europe. However, it is nearly certain that something did exert strong natural selection on Delta 32 in order for it to be at its current frequency. The leading contender would be some infectious disease (e.g. smallpox), but probably not plague.
This isn't true, at least not in the southern and eastern African countries with very high HIV prevalence rates. Take Botswana for example: Assuming that prevalence rates stayed at 1999 levels, a boy who was 15 years old that year had a 90% of eventually dying of AIDS (this taking into account other sources of mortality). Granted, Botswana has the highest HIV rates in the world, but similar calculatations have been conducted for other countries and there is little doubt that HIV/AIDS will have an enormous demographic impact on many African countries.
"It sounds like you've been reading so Christian-right pro-abstainance bullshit..."
A little out of line I think... I do not wish problems on anyone, but with as with most actions, sex carries risks.
If you decide to view sex as a recreational sport of pleasure then you take the risks of that choice. Becoming or getting someone pregnant, possible receiving and spreading sexually transmitted diseases for example.
Believe what you will, but if sexual promiscuity didn't exist, then we wouldn't have this problem.
*NOTE* I am aware that it is also transmitted by sharing needles, bad blood transfusions and blood exposure. However I do not believe these are the major carriers of the diseases.
Yeah, thats the ticket.
emt 377 emt 4
Ok, for the record, I am about as big a separation of church and stater as there is on Earth. I have been referred to as an "anti-theist" instead of a mere "atheist".
While there is no doubt that GWB is religiously biased in favor of abstinence only crap, that doesn't mean that abstinence hasn't helped in other countries.
I refer you to:
This story about Uganda and abstinence
This Kristof article
It does mention that 1/3 of the money committed goes to abstinence programs, which may be too much as a percentage, but a) these programs have a history of working in conjuction with other programs, and b) in a dire situation like this, it's better to have $3 billion that is as effective as $2 billion than just spending $1 billion.
Bush is a disagreeable ideologue, and he is overcommitted to many crap ideas, but that doesn't immediately discount funding for abstinence AIDS programs.
Also, I believe, although I can't point to something that immediately backs it up, that they have trouble getting people to regularly take the AIDS cocktail when it is offered. I truly wish that the West would get off it's ass and force drug companies to license/produce generic AIDS drugs for distribution in Africa, but it is unlikely to happen, and even so, there are still major cultural barriers to overcome.
The problem is that we view the health problems of Africa through Western eyes. With so many people dying young from a variety of illnesses, we can afford to allow them to do things that we find disagreeable to protect themselves. For instance, allowing/selling them DDT for their homes to prevent malarial mosquitos from infecting them.
You can bet that if someone in the president's family acquired HIV, tons of money would suddenly be appropriated for research. And I don't mean just this president, any president on "either side."
AIDS is what is caused by HIV. AIDS is not a disease itself but is a way to describe people that have an immune deficiency.
AcmeShells.com The cheapest Eggdrop
Kewl. Thanks for the URL. It is sad that often the assistance we render is through our colored or filtered lenses.
I wonder how long the issue of patents and the issue of recovering development costs will loom while people die. I wonder if these CEOs, or, rather their investors, of the pharmaceuticals TRULY believe in some sort of Karma, good will, or a myriad of other philosophical approaches to blending technology with humanity. I think a goodly number of them are fiendishly racking up bad Karma.
Maybe it's time we evolve to the point where printing extra give-away cash/currency is not such a bad thing, if it raises morale, improves livilihoods, and makes esteem something to be a gift, right, province, and more.
Ahhh, I'm too much of an idealist or dreamer or I am living in the wrong time.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
If any species has its genetic diversity reduced below some cutoff value, the genetically nearly-identical offspring will be statistically vulnerable to some other challenge to their genome.
We may see (or may have seen) this in the case of endangered species restoration, although of course the workers in this field know of the risk and do their best to keep the gene pool as diverse as possible.
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
Believe what you will, but if sexual promiscuity didn't exist, then we wouldn't have this problem.
Yeah, because without sex none of us would be here in the first place.
etc. is not an acronym of three words. It's two words, et cetera, abbreviated to et c. or etc.
Finding God in a Dog
My point was that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus, once it has run rampant on you, you have Acquired Imuno Defficiency Syndrome (forgive me spelling, went out for lunch and drank some). The people of which I'm speaking never get their imune system compromised, their T cells never get "sacked" so to speak. HIV has nothing on them. Their immune systems whip HIV down like you or I can bitch slap the 50,000 random germs and fungus we come into contact with in a given day. Oh wait, I get your point.
I boycott signatures
Almost any institution that has the resources for large scale medical research will do more than one project at a time and depend on government money.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Although more people are being responsible, the irresponsible ones are living much much longer and infecting more people before they die.
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
There is ONE world. Count 'em! One! All this crap about 3rd world, etc is just bullshit made up by elitists to separate all of us people from each other. "Oh! look at THEM! They're not us, they're from another world than ours. They're aliens and we should fear them, hate them, pen them in, and it's all right to enslave them if we can. Hell, we can work 'em like dogs for tuppence a month and pass the savings on to ourselve at Walmart!"
The other issue with this is the newer designation of Developing, Developed, Under-developed. These too, are arbitrary based on an assumption of false superiority. "Ooh, you're not covered in concrete there! You're obviously not as good as us!" We should relabel it Overdeveloped, About Right, and Developing.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
I find this dicussion increasing here are my 2 cents. 1) I dont generally believe studies from news papers. I think most of them as ill designed and aimed at sensationalism. 2)Recently my wife and I had to be to tested for HIV. We are expecting our first child and it was a traumatic event. Thankfully we are in the clear. I know that I had exposure to HIV through work years ago. Question is: Would I mind being isolated? YES. Should I be isolated had I had the infection. I would say YES. It is painful but true. It would bother me a lot if I knew I had caused somebody else's HIV infection. I think it is the responsibility of those with HIV to steer clear of HIV- folks. Besides, for the record, I am not a christian, I am agnostic. I also think that if you are atheistic or agnostic your moral responsibilities are higher as you cannot just ask for forgiveness and forget your mistakes. You get to live with them and suffer your demons all by yourself. 3) It hurts to think that India are China are not developed nations but it is true. I think 3rd world nations is however an arrogant term created by the privileged few and now when the tide is turning they dont like it. (Neither did we!) The world order is changing and eventually China will be a very powerful country as the people are more hardworking ,less laidback and far less into finding excuses for their failures than americans. BTW I am not chinese-as must be obvious from my English.
Inflammation of the foreskin reminds me of your smile I've had ballanital chancroids for quite a little while I gave my heart to NSU that lovely night in June I ache for you my darling and I hope you get well soon. My penile warts, your herpes my syphilitic sores Your moenelial infection how I miss you more and more You dobie's itch, my scrumpox our lovely gonorrhea At least we both were lying when we said that we were clear Our syphilitic kisses sealed the secret of our tryst You gave me scrotal pustules with a quick flickof your wrist Your trichovaginitis sent shivers down my spine I got snail tracks in my anus when your spirochetes met mine. Gonococcal urethritis, streptococcal ballinitis, Meningo myelitis, diplococcal cephalitis, Epididimitis, interstitial keratitis, Syphalitic choroiditis, and anterior u-ve-i-tis. My clapped out genetalia is not so bad for me As the complete and utter failure every time I try to pee. My doctor says my buboes are the worst he's ever seen My scrotum's painted orange and my balls are turning green. My heart is very tender though my parts are awful raw You might have been infected but you never were a bore I'm dying of your love my love I'm your spirochaetal clown I've left my body to science but I'm afraid they've turned it down. Gonococcal urethritis, streptococcal ballinitis, Meningo myelitis, diplococcal cephalitis, Epididimitis, interstitial keratitis, Syphalitic choroiditis, and anterior u-ve-i-tis.
Is to leave them alone with their problems, their pains and their joys.
Rudyard Kipling
The White Man's Burden
(1899)
First published in McClure's Magazine (Feb. 1899).
Electronic Text by students from University Texas, Austin.
Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go, bind your sons to exile
To serve your captive's need;
To wait, in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.
Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain,
To seek another's profit
And work another's gain.
Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine,
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
(The end for others sought)
Watch sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.
Take up the White Man's burden--
No iron rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go, make them with your living
And mark them with your dead.
Take up the White Man's burden,
And reap his old reward--
The blame of those ye better
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of those ye humor
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"
Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloak your weariness.
By all ye will or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent sullen peoples
Shall weigh your God and you.
Take up the White Man's burden!
Have done with childish days--
The lightly-proffered laurel,
The easy ungrudged praise:
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years,
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
The term "criminal negligence" refers to carelessness that causes others harm, and even then, it's a particular kind of carelessness.
Furthermore, not all illegal behaviors are immoral and not all immoral behaviors are illegal.