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US Army Testing Robots with Shotguns
Darren writes "The US Army is testing robots armed with shotguns. The robots are called Packbots and have already seen some action in Iraq. It also has chemical sensors that detect nuclear, biological, and chemical contaminants. Maybe I've seen a few too many bad sci-fi movies, but robots with shotguns scare me."
Haven't we already covered the packbots and their shotgun plug-ins enough? This is pretty old news.
"The pitiful fleshy humans can have my gun when they pry it from my cold metal fingers".
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
So much for the three laws of robotics.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
... you have twenty seconds to comply... ... rrrr ... you now have fifteen seconds to comply...
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thats gotta be some scary shit if you're a soldier in Iraq, imagine a robot with a shotgun walking up to you yelling "DIE EVIL INSURGENT", mistaking you for an enemy. Thats not even an honorable death, dying from a robot?
thisnukes4u.net
Here are two more older articles with more pictures. These don't mention shotguns...
They'll soon be able to have a contest for Upper Class Robotic Twit of the Year.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
This will bring a whole new meaning to friendly fire... *think it over- creep*
kin242.net
Maybe I've seen a few too many bad sci-fi movies, but robots with shotguns scare me.
I haven't seen too many bad sci-fi movies, and robots with shotguns scare me. I think the ultimate in scarily-armed robots would be one with a chainsaw on one arm and a pubic shaver on the other. That would give any enemy (or uppity citizenry) nightmares.
The robot is controlled by an integral Pentium based computer. It uses a modular payload system offering standard (USB, Ethernet) communications and networking.
I get this mental picture of some sneaky terrorist with a Sony Vaio sneaking up to one of these packbots and plugging in his cat5...
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
Well, with ~100,000 dead civilians in Iraq, the robots can't do much worse than the flesh and blood troops.
>> "...robots with shotguns scare me."
But I'm perfectly fine with 200,000 teenagers armed with billions of dollars in "smart" weapons and ordered to do what they are told under penalty of courts-martial.
For a minute, I pictured the Army's new class of robots being "stress tested" via shotgun fire. I was really wondering if that was such a good idea... I mean, who expects a machine to stand up to a hit from a shotgun?
I know the robots in System Shock 2 certainly didn't last long.
The speed of time is one second per second.
... now, not only can I keep the floors in a country house clean, the robot can also eliminate the vermin problem in the neighbouring fields.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
esp. if you are on the other side.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It looks like an interesting job opportunity for Quake bot authors...
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The US Army has announced plans to hire the top Quake and UT bot creators to write the AI routines for these robots. Said an Army spokesdrone, 'We felt that it was more economical to simply modify existing code that already involved computers blasting humans with shotguns.'.
... User-friendly fire?
if they can afford to build a (let's face it) Terminator (T-0.00001a?), then why can't they afford to build a weapon for it that's better suited to being used by a robot? A shotgun is a pretty complicated weapon to fire, whereas an uzi-nine-millimeder isn't.
robots running windows scare more!
"kiss my shiny metal ass"
cheers,
Adolfo
"Use your gun in a threatening manner."
"Uh, with respect, sir... fuck that!"
You must think in Russian.
If he is ordered to go kill some babies point-blank, he at least has the option of saying "screw that" and going through court-martial.
No chance of a conscience with a robot.
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
How are those things going to recognize whether someone is a soldier or a civilian?
Now that's just a huge fallacy.
Gore has repeatedly stated that he would have thrown the terrorists in a lock box. The key to the lock box would also be safely kept away in another lock box.
Bad 80s synth? Even Stephen Hawking is getting a make-over these days.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I thought they already put shotguns on bomb defusal robots as a way of remotely triggering explosives.
And, I also seem to recall (probably on a Fox special) police using a robot with remote camera and a shotgun to negotiate with an armed man (and get the layout of his place)... and this was YEARS ago.
Why is this really news, outside of it containing the "Iraq hotbutton?"
Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
So how long before we battle the evil robot spider things like in this film
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
One thing for sure,they would make ONE HELL of a LAN party!! Of course, you'd have to incorporate some wireless commmunications between laptops and the robot, but that would RULE! :D
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Just imagine the applications:
HUNTER'S HELPER: The lazy backwoods redneck no longer need soil his clothing or even leave the house! Simply be remotely controlling his JethroBot, he can blast away offensive and dangerous deer, squirrels, and "possums" with the flick of a switch! Sure to be a top seller at Wal-Mart stores nationwide.
FOOD FETCHER: Too damned fat to get out the door and make that McDonald's run? Add the handy tray attachment (sold separately) and your shotgun-toting buddy becomes a handy way to get grub once your limbs can no longer support your weight.
PAINTBALL III - RISE OF THE MACHINES:Sick of losing to uber-good paintball players? Buy a fleet of cyborgs, swap those 12 gauges for rapid-fire paint launchers, and tell those wusses "I'll be back". Life-size inflatable Linda Hamilton doll not included.
"Please put down your weapon you have 20 seconds to comply".... thud thwap thud thwak (insert flying guts here) thud thwap
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born - Ronald Reagan
I wonder if the packbot comes with a standard Quake interface?
(gives new meaning to "first person shooter")
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Gee, what's a better option? Having machines do the dirty work in a hostile environment, or having people die viciously for "the great cause"?
Granted that most people starting the war wouldn't do the dirty work, but using robots isn't necessarily cowardice, thats just strategic.
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2 robots go into a bank and using a loudspeaker demand money or they "detonate" the one with shotgun fires off a round to show these bots mean business.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
It seems that these "robots" are actually just remote controlled vehicles with shotguns. I don't think they're autonomous, most of the concerns raised don't reem relevant.
Oh great, an army of mechanical soldiers rolling across the battlefield spouting 'Johnny 5 is alive!' in bad 80's synth.
:P
"Disassemble?! No disassemble!!"
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When war gets to the point where we have robots fighting robots maybe then we will releaize just how stupid war is.
The arms the shotguns are attached to tend to move pretty slowly, and using them against live combatants would not be the simplist task. I think the author of the article was looking to add a little more sauce than necessary. These things are most likely being used to go into hazardous situations to collect information and handle volatile/dangerous substances/objects.
Idiot, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant
Just in time for Star Wars. When Regan started Star Wars Defence Program I didn't know it meant robots like there were in Star Wars episode I :P
How about ASIMO with a machine gun?
They are kinda cool though. Can you use them for karaoke in their off time?
The order of death...
How come we don't have something like the automatic machine guns that were used in Aliens? I think they'd be great in securing remote points from enemy filtration. All you need is a machine gun with a motion sensor and tracking software.....
Seriously folks, these are glorified remote controlled cars with shotguns. It's not even that new. Bomb disposal robots that Police departments use have had shotguns for a long time (they use them to set off a suspicious package). The only thing new about this is it's being used against humans in a combat situation. It's still a human controlling it.
The best part of it is that it replaces the "Tunnel Rats" from Vietnam. Instead of sending a human with a pistol to clear a tunnel or cave, you send one of these in.
No scarier or faultprone than a Predator drone, armed with Hellfires, being flown remotely by a pilot on the ground.
The commadant speaking at Bart and Lisa's graduation ceremony from the military academy:
"The wars of the future will be fought with robots, but it will be your job to build and maintain those robots"
Monstar L
I'm confused, such a great story but what lame old joke do I use?
I for one welcome our new robot shotgun bearing overlords?
In Soviet Russia, robot shoots you?
Something about Sara Conners?
All your base are belong to them?
Oh well, I'm sure someone will choose the right one and get the +5 funny
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There are tons of unemployed people. They can't find any other work so many are forced to enlist. They are probably a lot cheaper than robots. Having a pool of poor people to draw on is terrific for the "war president".
That sounds handy. I can't think of how many times I've found an NBC weapon and wanted to shoot it with some buckshot.
The same company that makes those cute little household vacuuming robots now has a military robot that is equipped with a pump action shotgun
So all terrorists need to do is set up one of those obstacle wire things from the accessory store, right?
(cut to scene in cave) {BAM] [BAM] "ALL YOUR CAVE ARE BELONG TO US!"
"Dammit Akbar, I thought I told you to set up the obstacle wire! Someone go take its batteries out, for god sakes."
The Pacbot weighs about 40 pounds
Okay. So does it kill terrorists by hitting them with the buckshot, or with its body that flies through the air every time it fires the gun?
And, being ankle-height, what part of the body does it aim at? Ouch...
Please help metamoderate.
If stupidity weren't painful, people would have no incentive to quit being stupid.
Sure! I have a RS232-to-speech card using 70s chips.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Administration is always telling us the truth, isn't it ?
...
Also it is running Linux
"You stay down by day, but at night you can move around. The H-K's use infra-red so you still have to watch out. But they're not too bright. John taught us ways to dust them. That's when the infiltrators started to appear...."
How long before those are the tactics the Havenots need to combat the Haves?
sigs, as if you care.
The shotgun is a pretty straight-forward weapon.
The action basically consists of:
1) Place Shell in barrel 2) Aim 3) Strike cap to fire 4) Eject shell (repeat).
In the case of the pump-action shotgun, the weapon is cycled by a simple linear motion in 2 directions.
Furthermore, the shotgun has a low requirement for accurate aiming.
The UZI is a bit more of a problem.
Compared to the shotgun, the mechanism of the UZI which provides its 'automatic' cycling using part of the gas from the barrel is quite complex.
Once firing begins from a closed-bolt (not sure if the UZI fires from CB), the weapon then relies on gas to work the bolt and springs to chamber the next round and cycle the trigger.
All of this makes a weapon like an UZI prone to jamming which, in the case of a robot would render the weapon useless until the end of the mission. (When human-intervention can fix the jam)
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
As a child, I always wondered why on earth men would fight men in wars... Having seen Robocop, I always imagined (remote-controlled) robots would replace soldiers eventually. In the end, it still all boils down to military budget vs. military budget. Why waste the human lives in the process?
At least those were my thoughts as a 7 year old.
Let's hope they have a way to communicate to non-combatants. Maybe ATT's speech synthesis?
Example:Fear not.
They have been using armed predator drones in Iraq and Afghanistan for some time now. Police have used armed remote control robots with shotguns and TV cameras to enter buildings in hostage situations. How is this any different?
My rights don't need management.
These are remote controll robots,
Which have been around and carrying
lethal weapons for many years
specificly the standard bomb dispusal robots
used by both police and military
are equiped with a rifle,
so that they could attempt to set off
bombs remotly by shooting at them.
Me.
So much for the three laws of robotics.
1. A robot may not shoot a human being with a shotgun, or through inaction allow a human being to be shot with a shotgun.
Actually nowadays shotguns in EOD robots is more used to help have access to de devices, like opening doors, breaking windows, etc, the neutralization of the device, in most cases, is achieved with water fired at high velocites using a proper device.
eom
This is awsome, having packbots with shotguns. It is not to long until we get a SkyNet!!!!! I for one welcome our new machine overlords.
Red Bull gave me wings and I flew into the ceiling fan.
"The US Army in combined operations with the Los Alamos National Lab, and the National Security Agency have developed a centralized robot control command center. U.S. Army spokesperson, John Conner is quoted as saying, 'SkyNet will be put into operation to save many soldiers lives'. Formal testing will being in 2008"
ehi! it can give a new full meaning to BSOD!!!
Can't the US government just get underprivleged black people to fight in Iraq instead? Wouldn't that be more cost effective?
Robot-controlled Hummers that can't drive straight, but can still shoot. Once they get the bugs out of the software, they'll even be able to limit their shooting to the enemy rather than just randomly firing off shotgun rounds at anything that moves. *sight*
In the first round of funding government contractors focus on getting more work with the most common parts available.
They'll get the contract for building these robots and then get a follow on contract to integrate weapons systems.
It's a long and tedious process.
I for one welcome our new shotgun-toting robotic overlords. /burning karma
Seriously, I like the idea of our soldiers being out of harm's way and remote controlling expendable robots. I also think that people who aren't fighting for their lives are likely to be more careful to avoid shooting bystanders. When your brain is soaked with Andrenalin and fatigue, your abilities go down, even with the best training.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
From the source article:
http://www.newstarget.com/002080.html
[In other words, the justification for the war didn't really matter at all. They might as well have said, "We're going to invade Iraq because they have too much sand." And 50% of the American people would have believed that, pitching in to help redistribute the sand to the other sand-poor nations of the world, most notably Canada, which has almost no sand whatsoever but still somehow manages to remain calm. ]
The big question is how it would stand up against a super soaker?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
You get 2 opposing countries say China and the US ia a war. Each country has an army of geeks engaged in what I can only describe as the biggest frag match ever. aAnd the only thing of note is tha you win the war if you have the highest score at the end of the day. Either side will probably be unwilling to declare victory in any case because face it, what geek would want to stop getting paid for participating in the largest and most realistic online game ever.
Bomb disposal units have used devices like this for quite some time.
One of the funniest T-shirts I've seen is printed on the back. It said:
"I am a bomb technician. If you see me running, try to keep up"
Briliant!
If stupidity weren't painful, people would have no incentive to quit being stupid.
I definitely agree there...too bad sometimes even that doesn't deter people.
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But you rendered your argument counter productive by including your escapist infantile clause of OMG I'm just a dumbass.
/shotgun +1 genuis
If you need text styles to communicate then you don't have a message.
nuke 'em from orbit, its the only way to be sure.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
"The U.S. government has invaded more countries than any other in the entire history of the world."
Don't know much world history, do you?
Shotguns cannot be used in war. Sorry.
I run one of the DARPA Grand Challenge teams, and I'm up-front about the military implications. Some of the academic teams don't want to admit they're part of a weapons program. But they are.
As a feeling human being I do to, however, if war becomes too painless it may also become even more common.
Let's face it the only reason anyone ever quits a war and gives in is because they either run out of young men to throw at the enemy with guns, or they realize the cost is too high and quit sending in those young men and give up.
If you send in a bunch of robots, and young men quit getting killed, war becomes less painful, and it brings to mind a star trek episode (the OLD trek) I'm sure I don't even need to recap the episode here, we've all seen it right?
--- www.f-theocean.com
and I'll never have to worry about a dirty carpet again!
only rifles and grenades.
Oh, only that? I guess we're fine then.
Oh no....you can't duck the blame on this one...he's all yours.
Err suicide bots? I wonder if we should tell the terrorist groups that they don't need to kill themselves anymore?.. nah!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
dude, it's "Bite my shiny metal ass"! get it right.
MABASPLOOM!
a bot President. They are still working on getting the illogical circuits right.
...welcome our new shotgun toting robotic overloards.
...
had to be said. that being done, this sounds to me like one of those ideas that sounds great on paper but has a tendency to kill lots of innocents by "accident." you know, kinda like the "government."
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
-Oscar Wilde
dude, it's "Bite my shiny metal ass"! get it right.
Dude he only says that because he is not in charge. Once Bender seizes power you can bet your matte fleshy ass that you will be told to kiss rather than bite the shiny metal ass of our booze-hound, pick-pocket, robotic overlord.
Exclusive picture of one of these robots! Shotgun equipped and all! http://www.gradis.net/Xray/xray.swf
Out to about ten yards or so, the pattern of the shot is tight, and made deliberately so. Taking down a group of people at a time with one blast - save that crap for John Woo films.
well I'm sure glad somebody understood what I was on about... I was starting to think I typed the original post in Latin or something
The fact of the matter is, instruments of war should be firghtening. I'm quite afraid of tanks, for instance. I hope our enemies are afraid of our tanks too, and our highly trained soldiers.
It could be argued, and in fact here I am arguing it, that the "scarier" a weapon is, the less chance that it will be used. A perfect example of this, of course, are nuclear weapons. The BIG DADDY of scary weapons. Only used twice. Never used since.
It's impossible to know how the deterrent of nuclear weapons changed the world, and whether or not they changed the world for the better, but I don't think you can argue that they didn't have a profound effect on our enemies behavior (and on ours - US - after our enemies got their own).
Bringing this full circle, I think it's great that we are developing weapon systems that put the other guy in harm's way while keeping our soldiers out of the line of fire.
I've made up my mind and now I've got to lie in it.
...if you'd RTFA, you'd have noticed that the weapon was specified as being a pump-action shotgun - not a semi-automatic one
This link is to an opinion piece referring to a unfindable article.
Does anyone have a REAL article talking about this? Something with dates, numbers, that sort of thing?
"Have you seen this boy?"
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If it dies, it would be a kernel panic*. This thing actually does run Linux.
* This assumes it dies due to some sort of software mangling and not from a lead slug to the CPU or by rolling over an improvised explosive device.
Only robots will have shotguns.
the guy that wrote this article, which was linked to from one of the original links is president and CEO of a well known email marketing software company. In other words, it was written by a SPAMMER. http://www.arialsoftware.com/
since when is a shotgun an area weapon? Or are you basing this on your experience sniping with the super-shotgun in Quake 2?
-- My Sig is a P228.
I have met more then a few fighter pilots (mostly F-16). Their general attitude is pretty close to "teenager." Many looked and acted like 19 year olds complete with the huge ego.
Still, it's nice to see our robotic overlords will be able to enjoy a bit of sport in between crushing humanoid uprisings.
*****
Dear Mary,
I yearn for you tragically,
A.T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
When your brain is soaked with Andrenalin and fatigue, your abilities go down, even with the best training.
Even with reduced abilities, it's still hard to beat a well-trained human being - eyes and hears are going to have higher bandwidth than a microphone and a video camera or other sensors (which are further reduced by the telemetry link bandwidth), and the senses-to-brain-to-trigger latency time is going to be fairly low compared to having to send info to some remote location and then send the response back.
Most civilian casualties come from indirect fire - airstrikes & artillery, both of which seem off-topic here. In a firefight, there are forms of semi-indirect fire, like cover or supressive fire- this is where you shoot just to make sure the other guy is hiding behind his defenses and not shooting back, or you don't know where the enemy is specifically and you shoot randomly. More indirect would be in a panic situation where the senses are limited, like a tank machine gunner who has come under fire and fires the gun blindly while ducking inside the turret- those are the situations where civilians get killed. So the bot operator will never panic out of fear for their own life, avoiding those last situations I've mentioned- but my point remains that the civilian casualties in a firefight are not usually coming from reduced soldier abilities, but of the unwillingness to use those abilities in a way that puts their life at risk.
After that, I suppose there's willful murder or other court-martial material, so the bot has the advantage their of keeping logs of everything it sees and and everything the operator commands- but it's probably likely that future human ground troops are all going to have black-box recorder type stuff to provide the same kind of accountability.
this is a roomba (robot vacuum) on steroids
(same company)... although I doubt the packbot picks up your cheerios off the floor for some reason...
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
I know people are going to probably think of this as a joke, but isn't this a perfect way for today's crop of FPS junkies to apply their skills? Assuming the robot can respond quickly to instructions, this could play out like a real-life "Counter-Strike" or, to a much lesser degree, "Quake" or "Half-Life".
Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to lend itself to close-quarters urban combat, which is what we're seeing more of in Iraq these days. I can't see a soldier deploying one of the Packbots in the field, then sitting down with a laptop to control it while exposing themselves to fire from any number of directions.
You have 10 seconds to comply...
Bender from futurama armed with a shotgun... (shotting at the evil robot santa claus)
http://www.foxworld.com/futurama/bios/index.htm
No he doesn't; but when the USA do bomb people, they tend to be brown people.
When was the last time they bombed white people? That would be the Serbs. The Serbs were persecuting Muslims (brown people).
And the time before that, the Germans. The Germans were persecuting Jews (brown people).
The pattern emerging here is that when white people move in on Americas 'action', they get bombed.
But brown people just have to be brown, thats all.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
It will sweep up the mess after it's done killing!
Actually, it is, "Never harm an OCP official."
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
You must have met a different class of fighter pilots, majority, by far, of the ones I know would have to do some SERIOUS growing up in order to act 19.
"Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 20 seconds to comply."
"But... I don't have any! I never had any! I don't understand what you..."
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 15 seconds to comply."
"Listen, I'm a western journalist - I'm just here to try and find out the other side of the story..."
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 10 seconds to comply."
"Hmm, it's obviously targeted me in error - is there any way to switch it off?"
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 5 seconds to comply."
"OK now hold on a second - can I communicate with your operator somehow? I mean seriously I'm not anything to do with this and I doubt there were ever any......"
Boom! pump,click.
The robots with shotguns aren't really a big deal. There may be a lot of them, but they're stupid, slow to fire, and they move sluggishly. Once you've built up some skills, you don't even think abou them.
The ones to watch out for are the mutants with the plasma canons, the giants with the chain guns, and especially the three-headed boss with the rocket launcher and electromagnetic disruption field. That one is a real bitch.
They have more advanced censors working in South Korea to detect nuclear, biological, and chemical contaminants. Thanks to them they have proof that North Korea produces such weapons. Unfortunately, in Iraq's case, Saddam was too damn smart and those machines where no match to his genius :)
Ok ok, not anglo-saxon.
And the Germans were trying for world domination.
As (IIRC) Jello Biafra said 'Thats our fucking job! Thats *our* *fucking* *Job*!!!!')
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Who cares? The US DOD? Haha
Pacbot is made by the same people as Roomba. What happens when it does the famous Roomba Circle Dance? For the single non-Roomba owner out there (sorry; it's still on backorder), Roombas are prone to sensor problems - usually caused by dirt - that makes them start going in circles. Imagine a spinning Roomba wildly firing a shotgun...
...New Robot Army?
Those battle droids aren't so tough if you have your lightsaber handy.
The big trouble will come when the shielded model hits the street.
Too true. I've been in the area. I've seen white guys tanned darker than the natives of the Middle East. Remember Klingor from MASH?
Don't forget that there are soldiers who came from the region, enlisted and became American citizens. We have everybody from the ultra-white norwegion types to the blackest blacks. And we all work together, despite a couple incidents of skinhead/KKK types sneaking in.
I don't read AC A human right
Aim one at a row of soup cans...
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I don't think they're intended to be cuddly.
Read the article. I'm sure this has been said before, but it doesn't seem to have modded up yet. This is a remote controlled device. It has a bunch of anti-bomb tricks, like detection systems and a shotgun. The shotgun could also be used to remotely shoot a person, as I'm sure everyone is aware. But, this is not a robot- meaning that, a person has to control it. By the common logic, robots with giant cannons were deployed in World War II across the world. The difference being, the operator sat INSIDE the tank, rather than far away.
hmmmm security/bugzilla entry:
I've found a problem with my packbot 2004 shotgun edition.
We bought 2 of these packbots but it seems the firing mechanism is controlled by RM radio stations.. It quite a problem because welcome to the jungle is on right now and the shit has hit the fan....
As the abused prisoners were criminals, not POWs, the Geneva conventions don't apply. The soldiers were busted on the standard prisoner abuse rules.
Geneva Conventions
1. In order for the geneva conventions to apply, both parties have to be signatories.
2. Note that weapons aren't mentioned. The Hague Conventions cover this. *Note: Though the USA follows these conventions, the USA is not a signatory*. The main effect of the Hague is that we're not allowed to use expanding bullets. IE hollowpoints/softpoints aren't allowed if they're designed to expand. FMJ only. A hollowpoint design has been approved for use, but only because it's more accurate, and it's not an expanding hollowpoint (IE it doesn't expand any more than a FMJ on will).
I don't read AC A human right
I wouldn't like hearing that. The moment that order comes out of whoever's mouth, I know there's going to be a court-martial.
It's called an illegal order. It is my duty as a soldier to A: refuse the order, B: prevent the order from being carried out, to the best of my ability. As in apprehend/shoot the officer if he tries to do it himself.
I don't read AC A human right
Now they're all cool and shiny - but just wait until one of them gets truck by a lightning and starts calling itself "Johnny".
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
a 12 inch spread of buckshot does not qualify as an "area effect" weapon. Napalm is an area affect weapon. Claymores are an area effect weapon. A shotgun is not.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
I suggest we just stop worrying about this in terms of "robots with shotguns scare me, are we moving in the right direction". I mean, yeah, sure, we won't see a 2nd Robotic Regiment or 5th Robotic Squadron being deployed to the war theatre at a click of a button, but let's just admit that this potential is here, it will inevitably be realised in a few decades and we better learn how to live with this right now. Denial is the most predictable human reaction, but it is also completely futile.
And also when we have a story about CGI movies, could you please stop saying "Oh, they looks so plastic/wooden/[insert your favourite material], that I want to throw up. Give me my money back, humans should never be animated by computers", because, as you can see in this convinient illustrated timeline, it took just 20 years to go from this to this, which is quite a feat.
People, the future is going to happen, stop acting so surprised.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Robot does not necessarily mean autonomous--in fact, the word literally means "slave". While there are about 400 semi-autonomous robots bolted to the floor to the right of me, even these robots follow very specific sets of instructions written by people.
Perhaps they should call "devices which do the job of a person where said job is too dangerous or unpleasant for the person to do" something other than "robot".
Because, apparently, "robot" now means "machine that does whatever in the hell it wants to". And it wants to do things. And it has a shotgun.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
But, hey, at least we know those shotgunner robots are gonna do their job as ordered, and if they get out of hand I live in California, so MY GOVERNOR KNOWS HOW TO KILL ROBOTS.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
Evidence has been found that the US army has decided to start using it's ennemies techniques. They have secretly developed a Pretzel-Shooting robot.
Secret document available HERE
I must escape before the black helicopters show up in the sky.
For those (like me at first) who just read the breakingnewsblog synopsis, this is a highly political article whose author has a rather large axe to grind. In light of this, it is nice to see that most of the rants got modded down. Too bad there isn't some sort of "-1 Flamebait" modifier for articles.
Besides the obvious political leanings of the story, it is interesting to hear about armed, unmanned machines being used in a ground role. They could really come in handy in roles like building searches too keep our soldiers out of harm's way. There are already field recon' robots (the throwable ones) but they can't exactly take out enemy combatants. It will be intersting to see how the program works out.
Look up an article about the U.S. Marines being cut to pieces by the U.S. Air Force while taking enemy fire (NYT). Messages were sent to the AF pilots to cease, but they continued to attack. I guess they were having to much fun. [That is not completely my snide observation.]
I bring this up because, the marines have a unique vehicle that should have been recognizable from the air. Moreover, this is a repeat of experiences of the first Gulf War. Supposedly these problems were solved. However, those among the honored dead are in that state due to persistent screwups. If saying it isn't so suffices for you, then you are totally misinformed or are a true believer.
We have real problems that robots alone are not going to solve. When you have idiots at the controls at the very highest levels and a media that repeats their stupid assertions. How can they ever recognize they have created a situation that can only progressively worse? Hitting the right target is not easy particularly when your enemy understands you better than we them. It appears to me we have a prescription for disaster. This is spoken by a person that believed that the Iraq adventure could possibly be successful and benefical to the Iraqi populous.
If ignorance is your guide it is all to easy to repeatedly hit the wrong targets whether by remote control, robotic or in person. That's where we are now.
So, presumably they're being tested/developed somewhere in California - so good ol' Arnie can keep an eye on em. Make sure they'll look like him eventually.
That'd be nice and neat at least....
Tuinslang
AFAIK, the only truly autonomous weaponry in use today is deployed by the US Navy.
They have a chaingun that when enabled, tracks and destroys airborn targets that come inside its operating envelope. Basically its used as a shield against missiles, and is quite effective since it can react MUCH quicker than a human decision maker. I've heard they have lots of problems with these chainguns making seagulls go "poof" though.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
If they did, they'd discover that the article is actually an excerpt of a larger article. THAT FA was written by a nutritionist/fitness guy, with a semi-nude picture of himself and his sixpack at the end of the article.
If you try to find HIS source, good luck! There are no links to credible sources on that page.
In other words, nothing to see here. This is not a credible source; it's an anti-war rant.
...not to mention the fact that the last thing you'd install on a pacbot is a pump action shotgun, which would require a little robotic arm to work the pump. If the story were remotely plausible, it would have selected a sensible semi-automatic shotgun, not a pump.
Len.
Does your mommy know you're using the computer without supervision?
A very long time, indeed. It's been well documented that the feds sent a robot armed with a shotgun to deliver a "negotiation" telephone to Randy Weaver during the Ruby Ridge incident -- and that was 1992.
... or action will be taken.
This has the image of (good ideas gone bad) written all over it. What if one of the terrorists get ahold of these? They now have a new way to terrorize.. Think about it, US american solders held hostage by their own robots!
any better if they just pushed us out of the window? :-) (I don't know. It didn't seem totally unrelated...)
What?
The whole "pump shotgun" thing makes this a little suspicious. The things don't look like they could pump a shotgun or even aim one at something that was more than 5 inches off the ground:
0 34 207.php
w at ch/2002/12/robot_tunnel/print.phtml
http://www.irobot.com/governmentindustrial/
However, here are Army Times and Popular Mechanics stories, and they do talk about weapons, but it doesn't sound like they have done so yet:
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1
http://popularmechanics.com/science/technology_
So maybe so, but I think a semi-auto shotgun would be better than a pump.
-- I browse at +5 with stripped sigs
a robot that carries two six shooters instead of a shotgun... or how about a chainsaw...
All the torrents you could want.
To me, the term "robot" means that the machine is making its own decisions about what to shoot. If there's a human driving the thing, then it's just a remote-controlled weapon.
Those shows like "battlebots" confused matters a great deal, since they referred to R/C devices as "robots."
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
It's spelled p-a-c-k-b-o-t but it's pronounced "dah'-lek".
The A-10 incident you are speaking of is a lot more complex than you lead on. The A-10s were suppose to be attacking targets attacking the marines, but the pilots were not given proper coordinates and opened fire on a US Marine sortie. The first items fired at the marines were not the recognizable 30mm cannon on the A-10, but rather several bombs from the two crafts. The marines thought at first that they were under attack by mortor fire, and thus, relayed messages that they were under attack by the enemy. Later, one of the marines recognized the sound of the gun, and relayed the message that they were under friendly fire. The A-10 pilots are under investigation as to why they did not cease fire at once, but those reports are still pending to my knowlege. To simply say that it is an ongoing problem is to make a generalization. Yes, under the fog of war, there are always friendly fire mistakes. Just imagine the number of people killed by friendly fire in the revolutionary war, or the civil war! Then figure WWII where people were entrenched, fireing on other units often without any communication. Vietnam was better, but not great. It is getting better, and with every new technology comes fewer friendly casualties. Every mission has fewer mistakes, but you cannot say that it is gettign worse when the trend is nothing but better. It is the sensationalist media that likes to shock and amaze people for ratings, who make it seem like a major problem. Remember one thing to all who question the Iraq war. On the day of the most US deaths in Iraq, more people died in Detroit, Michigan alone.
I came, I saw, She conquered.
can we claim to be "better" than the terrorists if we start acting just like them?
A robot with a Crowbar. Seriously. That is the best weapon ever.....
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Please, no argumentae ex asimoviae. This has been coming since Bionic Woman proved we could leave out the meat. My personal favorites will be autonomous AI hexpods packing C4. You can get 55,000 of those for the price of one Second Lieutenant.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
It was first used in his play R.U.R which opened in Prague in 1921.
The European Jews weren't brown.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central /04/18/afghanistan.canada/
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
On the day of the most US deaths in Iraq, more people died in Detroit, Michigan alone.
So how many folks do you suppose are planning to move from Detroit to Bagdhad?
just asking...
http://request-header.info
The polling method took *out* their statistics for Fallujah when calculating the increased death rate.
All areas were chosen randomly.
The exact same polling method was used by international agencies, governments etc. to obtain the war deaths amongst civilians in Kosovo and Bosnia. It is an accepted method.
All descriptions I've seen have described 100 000 *additional* deaths to the pre-war death-rate. They asked people the cause of death as well. They found that the leading cause of death pre-war were things like heart attacks. Post war it was violence esp. aerial bombing.
You obviously have only seen Fox news and not say actually read how they did the survey.
Robotic Rednecks? Damn! More Bush voters. ducks
Table-ized A.I.
Forgot to mention. While they took out Fallujah in the statistics, they included a few Kurdish areas where the death-rate not surprisingly actually decreased. If anything they were being extremely conservative in their estimate. People believe that if they left out the Kurdish areas, and just did the Sunni areas alone and the Shi'ite areas alone, the death-rate in Sunni and Shi'ite areas would be much higher than that quoted.
In conclusion: they were being *conservative* in their estimate.
In Naked Sun, Lijah Bailey figures out that a murder was committed by tricking a robot into performing a violent act by manipulation of its conformity to the Three Laws.
The novel goes on a great length about the impossibility of a robot harming a human and then springs that as a surprise ending. Well guess what. The murderer who used the robot as a weapon was a hacker -- figured out how to manipulate a system conforming to a set of rules that were supposed to insure security in such a way to break that security.
I discussed this with an Asimov fan -- was Asimov not clued in to hacking and computer security? That rules that supposedly resulted in ironclad security could be circumvented by a determined attack on some weakness in the rules?
It was suggested (trying to defend Asimov) that the societies he was depicting was clueless to those issues -- that they had become so reliant on technology that their brains had gone soft. Whatever.
And the Writer of the Article is From newstarget.com and Written by the Wonderful CEO of
Arial Software (Email Marketing/Spam) Come on people...
yes, thats observant. So they were metaphorically brown.
Besides, the Germans were trying for world domination, thereby moving in on Americas 'action' in a different way.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Wow this seems less like a /. story and more like your normal leftist bush bashing....
http://www.DaveNet.biz/
Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics"
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
What you say makes sense, but unfortunately real life does not bear this out... can you say, "Aw, dude"?
It's much harder to kill someone up close when you have to see their head explode with your own bare eyes. When you do it via remote screen, it's just like a game, blowing shit up. Aw, dude! Look at the fireworks!
They're more like ... what Larry Niven called them in Oath of Fealty... waldos. Remote-control does not give them a brain, so how do the robotics laws apply?
If you're bashing in a door, and someone pulls a toy gun, a human police office is going to blast away. If a robot knocks down the door, and someone pulls a toy gun, the robot isn't going to care, it's going to wait and see, and the person with the toy gun is going to crap their pants.
Now, if someone gives this thing a program, sends it "over the next hill and shoot anything that moves", we're still not into artificial intelligence. It's just another guided weapon, and I don't see how it's called a robot anymore than a Tomahawk cruise missile is a "robot".
-- No sig for you!
Actually, it is, "Never harm an OCP official."
*Comic Book Store Guy Voice* I think you'll find it's more along the lines of:
"Any attempt to arrest a senior OCP Executive will result in immediate shutdown"
Not sure if I got that 100% but I think so... RC is one of my favourite movies. It's one of those movies I appreciated differently as an adult (the parodies on future society are hilarious) as I did as an adolescent ("Guns, Guns, Guuuuuuns!!!" --Clarence B).
Ronny Cox, Miguel Ferrer and Kurtwood Smith are great in that movie.
"I... love... intelligent women... smart is so... sexy" --Bob Morton
"Oh I know! Sometimes I'll just think of something... and I get sooooo hoooorny" --Model
Yeah I love it. Sorry to be particular but a lot of lines from that movie are gold, including the [Classified] Directive 4.
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
In Soviet Russia.... booze-hound, pick-pocket, robotic, shiny assed overloard welcomes YOU!!!
"Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
There's two kinds of "we" as far as I can see: those who are dumb enough to go and get themselves killed and at the same time agitating their killers to come after this second kind of "we" who sits comfortably in his room far away thinking he's very much like the first kind of "we".
Except of course for the part that might get this cosy "we" killed.
I hope you're not either kind of "we".
Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
I'm only giving a generalization. I personally am in the armed services and we are all aware of the risk involved in raising our right hand and swearing in. 1000 people (US soldiers) is not an incredible number considering we've been at it for more than two years. that's about 2 people a day. Not too bad considering we are in a HOSTILE environment. I'd like to see law enforcement deaths in the US over the past two years or so to see how many deaths we have in a non hostile environment. I personally an not concerned about the Iraq natives' deaths as much as I am concerned about the security of the troops there. IMO, you have to look after number one first. And it is difficult not to have the urge to shoot first then ask questions, b/c if you don't shoot first out there, you're dead if they are hostile. It's not that I don't care about civilian deaths, but I care about US deaths and security more. Why? B/c I live here.
I came, I saw, She conquered.
Asmiov was a qualified chemist, but he didn't really invent robots. The concept links back through Jewish folklore to that of Golems. His three laws have provoked a lot of discussion though outside of fiction.
See my journal, I write things there
ENEMY COUNTRIES WILL LIKELY MAKE DEATH SQUAD BOTS BECAUSE OF THIS. Sometimes when the Nazi's executed people they would line people up in single file on the edge of railroad bridges, so that they could save on bullets, and not worry much about the mess. I think this invention is quite comparable to that in amplifying the efficiency of being able to commit evil acts of murder by "soldiers". As a result of this unfortunate direction that the Bush-Cheyne-Rumsfeld-Satan Administration have taken here in burning the Geneva Convention with their robotic weaponry shotgun robots, enemy countries will no doubt begin inventing hideously lethal "defense"/offense robots and all sorts of new kinds of weapons of mass destruction. All of which will no doubt be aimed at us. They've indeed unleashed a plague on the world with this one, and with their policies.
If one simply looks at the quantity of munitions that exploded in populated places, then the estimate of 10K seems to be exceptionally low, even allowing for increased accuracy.
See my journal, I write things there
Sorry, if I implied it was too simple, but read even the first 46 pages of Imperial Hubris and come back and tell me we are making fewer mistakes. Perhaps in raw numbers of our own people killing our people, but even there I have my doubts. Incidents like this are too often suppressed.
Our major problem is that we are fighting our enemies in the wrong places and incompetently. And I am not blaming the troops - the errors are at the highest levels.
I remember that event, I hate using the word incident for wiping out a Canadian unit that was just practice firing.
Of course, the pilots escaped the full wrath because there were embarrassing factors involved: essentially drugging up the pilots so that they could be on patrol longer. Again nothing I have seen has shown that there was any real recognition of command error.
You should recognize, that until recently the National Guard was not called out for our "small wars". They just do not have the same level of training that the regular military <i>enjoys</i>.
Unfortunatly, this guy is not around anymore if something goes wrong this time.
Alexis Bellido
Mechanical lever voting machines, used widely since the 1930s don't have a paper audit trail for each vote or a paper ballot. Why is this suddenly an issue?
Both lever machines and electronic ones have a huge advantage if your goal is to "count every vote" - they make it impossible to spoil the vote by voting improperly (ie voting for too many candidates)...
When is the last time you took the receipt from your trip to the grocery store and demanded that the store manager add it up by hand? The entire notion of ordering a recount on a voting computer is bizarre.
Final 2006 "Proof of Global Warming" US Hurricane Count -> 0
It appears to me we have a prescription for disaster. This is spoken by a person that believed that the Iraq adventure could possibly be successful and benefical to the Iraqi populous.
Past tense? I think you are being too cynical. It takes time to rebuild a nation with a people that have been oppressed as long and as harshly as the Iraqis. Look at Russia. It took years for a significant percentage of the population to shake off the psychic bonds of the Soviet state and use their newly found freedom to build a better future. From what I read, Russia is bustling today, although at times fitfully. We should start seeing some real indicators in Iraq within the next year or so.
You also might want to keep in mind that in WWII we killed innocent Frenchmen, Germans, Japanese, and a host of other nationalities. They don't seem to be holding that against us now, or for that matter, not since shortly after the war. I'm not sure why Iraq should be any different.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
There are large numbers of people in the USA that believe that the UN is corrupt, that NATO is ineffective, and that we should pull out of both.
In other words- We don't care what the director of the UN says. The reason that we did it without UN approval was because France and Germany, who were profiting from the corrupt "oil-for-food" program, opposed the removal of Saddam. As France has veto powers, nothing would have been done. We entered Iraq on several previous orders.
I don't read AC A human right