Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Replaces Your Pirated Windows, For Free
th3d0ct0r writes "ZDNet reports that Microsoft is now willing to replace your pirated version of Windows XP. As part of the recently started "Windows Genuine advantage" program, Alex Hilton explains that this incentive aims to bring out customers who bought PC's with Windows XP preinstalled from vendors that pirated the Microsoft OS. Not only do they offer amnesty to anyone coming forth with a pirated version, but also to ship an original version of their product with a valid license to replace the pirated one, each customer being able to get up to 5 such replacements. Hilton says: "Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is to get to the source".
This is only a pilot program for the UK, and it requires a proof of purchase (so they have someone to go after).
Can someone please explain to me WHY they would do this? I really don't understand MS sometimes, however, unlike you other SDotters, I don't hate them (now, I lose any standing I could ever have with them) I think, the only reason Microsoft products are buggy, is because they have SO MANY USERS using them. However, they do try to cheat you out of your original purchase if you don't upgrade to the latest version by making patches hard to get, and no reverse compatibility, they just like to screw users who don't buy new copies.
This has very little to do with converting pirates (which I'm sure even M$ realizes is a losing battle). The piracy sector M$ is genuinely worried about is people who get suckered into buying pirated copies from bootleggers or shady computer shops.
I seriously doubt many knowing pirates are going to turn themselves in after a sudden guilt trip. M$ knows this too. But this puts them in the blogs and the papers, and they appear to be the good guy.
It's a PR move, nothing more, nothing less, move along.
+ Donald Gunth
+ Email: dgunth@quicktek.net
"Caffeine is the greatest lubricant ever created." -ESR
.... considering the licensing pressure MS applied to some in the past regarding OS installation... re: DOJ vs. MS
How do you know if you have a pirated copy of Windows?
Cudos to Microsoft for a great move that should hopefully encourage customers to report on their pre-installed pirated copies of Windows XP. Rather than attacking the user, they can go to the supplier. This can only be a move in the right direction, in my opinion, and I feel this sort of move should be lauded and supported by the general public.
I'm curious to see what the general reaction to this move is.
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
What if someone buys a computer from some small company, and then installs a pirated copy on it (say they screw up and lose whatever discs they have) and claims the small company put it on there to get another licensed copy. Or what if they buy a computer without an OS (or with Linux) and claims the pirated copy they got was from the small company?
Things like this are what make me like Linux so much. In Linux, you don't even have to do anything to get your copy to be legit! It already is.
In Linux, there is no "activating." 2 of the computers in my house (owned by other family members) use Windows, and I have to go through Activation Hell every time I reformat one. Which is rather often, because of the fact that they use Windows.
...you'll get the free Windows CD as soon as you hand over a signed affidavit stating that you have entered into a plea bargain with Microsoft, Inc. by admitting guilt in exchange for amnesty in the case of Citizen #655321 vs. Microsoft, Inc. in the matter of the pirating of license #970834-DELL-OEM-34323. Microsoft, Inc. is now permitted to enter this as evidence against you in a court of law should the need arise again in the near future (cough) Longhorn (cough)?
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
While it sure does sound like a pretty good deal for those individuals who might have gotten a pirated copy of XP without knowing any better, I really don't know if I can accept Microsoft's promise that they wont sue you after you admit to having a pirated copy.
MS gets to identify and crack down on hardware vendors abusing their licensing programme and is more likely to generate future revenue stream via product upgrade fees.
a world in progress...
...as a gun buyback program in Iraq...
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
"Hey, I get a free working copy of Windows if I turn in this person I got a cheap computer from!"
Now Microsoft is even competing for a monopoly on software piracy... through pirating their own software...!?
Microsoft will be offering anyone who's "unsure" about whether they've got dodgy software the chance to have it checked out by Microsoft, with the promise that if it does turn out to be counterfeit, they'll replace it.
Apparantly, Microsoft knows. They know everything. They're right behind you.
~Ilyanep
To get message, take amount of carrier pigeons at each stage mod 2. Then decode binary.
"Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is to get to the source".
Translation: Our goal is future upgrade revenue.
The majority of pirates get their Windows from P2P, or a burned copy from a friend. If they wanted to get to the major source, they would have to become RIAA-like or something.
Powered by caffeine and sugar; BSD
"Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is to get to the source".
I think the origin and the source of all that (pirated) crap can be fount in Redmond...
Plural's don't have apostrophe's, even when they are abbreviation's like "PC's".
Microsoft often target computer hardware companies in Australia - doing surprise audits and that type of thing. The teenage pirate isn't as damaging to them as computer sellers.
Not a bad thing really however - because a great deal of Microsoft's monopoly has been achieved because people have pirated their software. It will likely be a way that consumers are forced to make the switch to Linux, because they'll be no way for them to access illegal copies.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Unbelievable, that is an amazingly good move. This will encourage all the n00b little computer stores, that install illegal copies of Windows on to their computers before selling them to stop doing it, by making the consumer report them.
:-D
I actually had a friend, who bought a computer from some little store, they gave him a 'legal' copy of Windows XP Corprate Edition, and Office XP, I told him to take the computer back and tell them to give him LEGAL copies of the software he purchased with the computer, or to give his money back....
They bought him the software...
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/24/2 354215
Damn, I got all excited upon first reading the headline thinking I can swap my illegally burned bootleg copy of win xp pro for a legit one and then I read the rest of the article :(
Microsoft is trying to put these guys out of business. Good, maybe they will start pushing Linux
"Please admit to us that you are using pirated software, and just send us your name and mailing address. We will happily ship you a copy."
Now, even presuming that they're not installing any overt spying stuff on the "real" CD they're sending you (which is possible, although they may not given the risk and bad PR if it's found out), do you really think they're just going to destroy this information as soon as they've got the package shipped?
And what if John Q. Jackass has a vendetta against the store he bought his PC from? Easy enough to settle -that- score, go find a pirated copy, install, send the letter off to Microsoft, and make sure they know that store X sold me this PC with this! While on the surface it sounds like MS is just trying to be a nice, fuzzy and warm corporation, I just find that a little hard to believe.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
This is interesting and I'd be especially interested to see which countries get this treatment.
If I were a cynical MS executive, I'd tolerate, heck, encourage widespread piracy of my products in developing markets such as Asia, but ruthlessly crack down on developed markets that already have high (monopolistic?) Windows penetration.
It maximises profits; those British will still have to pay the Microsoft Tax on new PCs, whereas PC retailers in asian countries, who don't do what MS tells them anyway, will still be spreading Windows throughout the region at the expense of every other OS. Eventually, MS will lean on those governments and say, "Do you know how much money our company is losing to piracy? Enforce your laws or else. By the way, your department's support contract for MS Longhorn is about to expire and we're raising prices by a lot. It's to cover lost sales due to piracy, doncherknow..."
"Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
I'm thinking a LOT of slashdotters would be wary about giving up their names and addresses to this sort of program, regardless of the promises of Microsoft.
IMO, I think Microsoft is honest in their intentions, but I can see where this might come back to bite some people, with the RIAA and MPAA lawsuits as an example.
All in all, though, this is good business for Microsoft - they've ALWAYS been quite generous with their licenses (developers, network admins, etc have always enjoyed a lot of freebies or outrageously generous package deals). Microsoft knows that once they get you on the straight and narrow, you'll probably keep coming back to them with legitimate purchases.
Of course, an outfit like the RIAA has the opposite business model and problem - selling crap CDs at inflated prices and chasing down, threatening and prosecuting every last potential user. The real problem for them is that for every person they "catch", there are 100 more who decide the RIAA and their ilk deserve no business and pirate out of spite.
Microsoft doesn't have that problem... the "haters" would be hipocritical to pirate Microsoft products, after all, they hate the product, right? So pirated copies almost become "free samples" to entice people in, and amnesty is the way to get that user back to buying the product (or at least the next cycle). Sure, they'd prefer you paid for the license, but they aren't as stupid as the record labels and movie people... they know many users either won't pay or paid a dishonest vendor; if you couldn't afford it anyway, they haven't lost a customer - but if you could afford it, you'll probably BUY the next version, or perhaps other Microsoft packages, because they were nice to you.
In short, it's a win-win for people who bought PCs with pirated Windows on them (and the vendor comes out as a loser when Microsoft comes knocking on THEIR door).
This amnesty program is a great idea. We don't see any wayt that it can fail.
Sincerely,
SCO && Darl McBride
You still have to shop the guys who you bought your unlicensed copy of the OS from. And that includes signing a sworn statement to the fact.
So, in essence, Microsoft gives you a legitimate copy of the software (or at least a license for the software that you already have installed) and you give Microsoft a mid-sized piracy outfit on a silver platter.
Total cost to Microsoft for eliminating a pirate that might be costing them tens, if not hundreds, of thousands: next to nothing. The pirate outfit will probably end up forking over the lost income one way or another (in court or out of court, whichever Microsoft decides) and even it it doesn't (because it declares bankrupcy or something similar) it'll never be selling another pirated copy of Windows XP again, which means more legitimate Windows XP sales for Microsoft in the long run.
You have to admit, it's one helluva smart play by Microsoft. It gets to make more money and it gets to look like the good guy too.
Oh, and why not totally free? Well, apart from the legal stuff that you have to sign, there's a good chance that any outfit that's pirating Windows XP on a large scale barely has its head above water. The cost of getting caught by Microsoft, or even the cost of going legitimate from there onwards, is likely to drag such a company down like a stone. If that happens, your PC's warranty won't be worth the paper that it's written on.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Say I have a pre-installed pirate copy of windows. I go to Microsoft and take advantage of their offer. I now have a legitimate copy of XP, and as I'm installing I actually (gawd forbid) read the EULA and decide I don't agree...
1. Can I get a refund from Microsoft since they shut down the dealer who was selling pirate copies?
2. What information will Microsoft keep about me if I try to take advantage of this offer?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
I can see why MS is using image fluffing in the U.K., afterall, it's needed there. However, here in the states - they'll never do this. I think this is really a matter of them just trying to appeal as "nice" when they are concentrating on a problem in a sector they need to pay attention to. In the U.K. it's glaringly obvious that their are retailers seeling hacked Windows versions with new boxes - otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. It really just sounds to me like a trap though.
"Here user, user...I got a present for you, that's right...it's a bug laden headache!"
Help me, help you. - Jerry McGuire
So how long will it take before people start making false statements and forging receipts?
If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/24/2 354215
Microsoft Replaces Your Pirated Windows, For Free
There's another group offering to replace your copy Windows, no questions asked! Check out the free downloads. And there's no limit of five free replacments. Replace as many copies of Windows as you want!
Software Wars
"our goal is to get to the source"
All your source belongs to us.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
This is a great idea! Linux and the BSDs should start a similar initiative.
Does anyone have any legalese on the subject matter? So this is done in the UK as a test pilot project - its a better move for M$ as any of late.
I don't think the pricing issue or the "whose OS is buggier" issue should be involved in this discussion, as someone in an earlier thread suggested (Linux being free and all). If you were the inventor of a great product called foo-bar (again, not saying Windows is great) you would not want everyone to copy it and make a profit from your hard work, now would you?
just a web application developer and instructor in Toronto, ON Canada
"How do you know if you have a pirated copy of Windows?"
The flying flag screensaver is replaced with the skull and bones.
... I thought so!
our goal is to get to the source
so that is why windows is closed source, even they don't have access to it.
No priase for the honorable! Another reason I like the Open Source unices. At least they don't bang you for bucks then gripe about about their profit margins!
I also got this notice from the police station today that says I have won a speed boat! All I have to do is go down to the station to sign the title and get the keys! I hope it won't be a problem that I have like 11ty billion unpaid parking tickets!
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable con
If I tell them I bought my PC from an auction or buy-and-sell, etc - but wasn't given the original media. Nobody trackable to turn in, can I still go for a free legal CD-key?
Hilton says: "Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is to make sure they pay next year when we remotely cut them off".
I live in the Philippines and here pirated software is part of the culture. You walk down to the mall and buy it. I'd be surprised if you can actually get very much original software.
Even our school was using pirated software until a year ago. The government is trying to launch an anti-piracy campaign, but when the computer stores themselves sell and install only pirated software, you can't get very far. Microsoft needs to acknowlege that nobody wants to pay that much money for a piece of software full of bugs.
They mean Al Qaida? Damn, those guys at Redmond should go easy on Halo2.
They'll go after the bastard with the deepest pocket.
And it wouldn't make sense to sue these end-users because a lot of them have no clue if their copy is legal or not. They see an add in a pc newspaper of somesort or the net, call to get info and hooray they got a new pc with windows xp and that's all they know.
Sue a person who went for the cheapest deal or sue the person making cash out of these cheap deals? This is an easy question for M$.
And this particular method is also used by the MPAA. On rental DVD/VHS you have a notice, asking you to call a toll free number in case you are watching a purchased copy of the copyrighted material.
If i am not mistaken, most people who buy a computer, buy it with Windows preinstalled, paying directly or indirectly for the license. I know very few shops that offer you a computer with a virgin harddrive, and then ask you: "So what operating system would you like to buy?"
Now if vendors start selling computers with pirated versions preinstalled, that would substantially affect M$ income from OS sales.
pass me those sparticles will ya?!
Seems like being in possession of stolen goods and claiming ignorance of the law as an excuse has been overlooked? I don't think so...
Using/possessing stolen goods is and will continue to be a violation of the law - note I point this out only to illustrate my opinion of how MS may react, and not as a smack on those who pirate.
The local crack dealer has a similar scheme going; they'll give you product for free, on the basis that you'll get hooked and wind up funding his lifestyle later on.
Unfortunately, his goons are puny compared to those of the BSA and WIPO; all Lefty, Knuckles and Rocko can threaten is violence and weapons, not generations of indentured servitude.
#define SARCASM_MODE 0
"Our goal is to spread as many copies of Windows that can be counted as 'Trusted Computing' as possible, so we can lock everyone else out: pirated Windows, Linux, ."
Microsoft has long sacrificed "extra" Windows sales dollars in favor of locking as many PCs as possible into their monopoly enabling product. They make it up on the "plugins": apps, development, consulting.
--
make install -not war
Of course, you can assemble your own system from parts, and avoid the problem.
They say they will not prosecute. But in reality they would wait some time, then bring you to court and win soo much more money then the distro was worth in the beginning. If only M$ didnt make shitty software and charge so much for it, maybe people would be more willing to BUY it. [My last owned version of Windows was 98SE]
_
Free 27" Sony WEGA TV
-Hey is this where you get the windows for free?
-Yes it is. do you have your pirate copy?
-Yup! Look, this is a stolen code.
-Good. TO THE FLOOR, NOW!!! CUFF HIM!
As soon as you agree, and you are expecting your new shiny Windoze boxes .... you get a note.
" I am altering the deal, pray that I don't alter it any further "
Cheers
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Sounds like they need to reajust some numbers to acount for more "Converts"
What stinks about this scheme is that first of all most people that buy from the corner shop guys are not mum and pop (they tend to buy from the larger retail stores), they are the semi computer savvy people and small business owners that need computers a the cheapest prices and probably know very well that they aren't getting a fully licensed version but don't really care. However now that MS are going to reward them with a legit copy and give them a golden handshake - the people that are going to cop it are the PC sellers who (while they should have known better anyway) have probably done the thing on the buyers request anyhow.
Even more scary is if you've built a system for a family member and they think they are doing the right thing by getting a legit copy may implicate you without purposely meaning to but they are trying to get something for nothing.
Another thing, to drive the local competition out of business go buy a few machines from them with a pirated version and then graciously line up for your free legit copies then drop their names and then profit.
I just can't be bothered.
You'll notice the only people MS doesn't tend to piss off are the endusers. Businesses hate their recent licensing changes. Admins hate their insecure, unmaintainable software. OEMs hate their licensing agreements, sometimes enough to just sell pirated copies instead.
;)
What does MS do in response? They turn a blind eye to enduser piracy and give away free software to endusers who rat out the OEMs that don't follow their licensing.
Basically, pandering to the masses. If there were any money in politics, MS execs would be working in Washington instead
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
I know it's the thing to do on Slashdot nowadays, you know post something along the lines of "LOL!! Yuo Linux looser!1!" every time some even mentions the merits of the OS. I know this may be beyond your thinking capacity, but people do have legitimate reasons for liking and using Linux.
Tourists are now being encouraged to hand feed the sharks at the Redmond Aquarium. "We're don't want to hurt the tourists," a spokesman said, "we just want to keep the shark food budget down."
--
"You've only got one finger left,
and it's pointing at the door."
Here is an analogy on why we don't buy MS products: If I buy a $80 OS, I expect $80 worth of function, mind-blowing software. Linux give you more for $10 [CDs, etc]. M$ junkware is more like going to the store and purchasing a Porsche for $80,000 but the cylendar heads blowing off every so often or the doors falling off whereas a $10,000 Chevy may do the job almost flawlessly.
_
Free 27" Sony WEGA TV
Which theology?
http://www.allyourbasearebelongtous.com/
... Microsoft is willing to part with that amount of money without some kind of catch that is in their favour - which usually means it is not in the user's best.
Mandrakelinux... get it in your box.
Registered Linux User
Registered KDE User
"ZDNet reports that Microsoft is now willing to replace your pirated version of Linux with Windows XP. As part of the recently started "Windows Genuine advantage" program, Alex Hilton explains that this incentive aims to bring out customers who bought PC's with Linux preinstalled from vendors that should have installed the Microsoft OS. Not only do they offer amnesty to anyone coming forth with a linux version, but also to ship an original version of their product with a valid license to replace the pirated linux one, each customer being able to get up to 5 such replacements. Hilton says: "Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is to get to the source, the linux vendors.".
For a sufficiently inflated value of "function" that is.
Of course, by that metric, a good BSD or Linux setup is worth $millions.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Didnt anyone tell them, it's dangerous snitching on your neighbourhood drug dealer!
I can see no reason to go to MS and say, "Please kill off my supplier of cheap PCs"...
... they're "features".
Registered Linux User
Registered KDE User
"Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is
World domination - check.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I don't know who at microsoft thought of this but once you get over the initial shock, this makes sense.
The people who already have a pirate version of Windows that came pre-installed in their pc have no reason to buy a legitimate copy ; therefore, giving them one for free does not represent a loss for microsoft. They'll spend the same money they spend on manufacturing an SP2 update cd which anyone can order for free.
And I imagine quite a few people will turn on their "shady" local pc stores if it means getting something for nothing. Even if the something is only an imagined peace of mind. Microsoft can in turn sue those stores for tidy amounts of money. I suspect they'll make enough of it to pay for the cds, the publicizing and the lawyer fees.
Of course, any profits from these lawsuits would be too small to be of interest to Microsoft. However, once enough stores are sued, not only will that ensure most of them will start paying microsoft for legitimate copies of winXP, but it will also ensure that many other stores will fall in line because they fear some of their customers will report them.
Divide and conquer : The oldest trick in the world
And while I do not harbor any affection for Microsoft because of their condemnable business practices, I have take my hat off to the guy who thought of this.
If Microsoft, (like the U.S.), happened to be in the business of killing people, who honestly thinks they wouldn't be killing people? Microsoft can go to hell, and probably will.
-FL
These users already have pirated copies of Windows. It costs Microsoft almost nothing to give them a "real" copy of Windows to replace it. In exchange, they snitch on their supplier and Microsoft knows who to sue the bejeezus out of. Getting rid of all these suppliers will result in a lot more non-pirated copies of Windows being purchased at MS's monopoly prices.
1. Allow users to get free, pirated copies of your product.
2. Contact those users and offer to give them a free, unpirated copy of your product.
3. ???
4. Profit!!!
Shame on Google.
"It's a trap!"
When I read the "our goal is to get to the source" quote from Microsoft, was I the only one who thought "They're finally admitting it. They have lost the MSWindows source code. This explains a lot of things--for instance, why they haven't add any new features (or made changes) for a decade except for a few that look very tacked on*, and why they never close any of the gaping security holes...".
Was I also the only one who shortly afterwards imagined the Microsoft licensing manager, Alex Hilton, mutating into Darth Vader and saying "our goal is to get to the force".
[*Let's face it MSW XP is just MSW 2000 with WindowBlinds (so it needs a machine with double the RAM) as well as a prettier default backdrop; isn't it? That is why its so slow, and I can't be the only one who noticed MSW XP reverting back to the 2000 look when the user tries to push it to really silly limits (like actually trying to run more than one program simultaneously in a so-called multi-tasking OS or something like that). Actually talking of things being tacked on, maybe they lost the MS-DOS source code, hence tacking on MSW...hmmm....]
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
What's to keep someone from buying five copies of XP Pro from an overseas vendor for $5-10 a piece and then getting legitimate licenses from MS via this offer?
Is MS planning on affecting offshore folks? It seems that their legal reach is limited to select countries.
I bought my PC from Dell and it came with WinXP preinstalled. Can I swap this stupid "restore" CD for an honest to god Windows CD????
Hmmm, Mr. Anderson, you disappoint me.
You can't scare me with this gestapo crap. I know my rights, I want my legitimate copy.
Tell me, Mr. Anderson. What good is a legitimate copy of Windows if you can't use a computer?
They've been dealing with piracy for ages.
They aren't going to be taking Joe Numbnut and his personal pirated copy to court now or in the future. An individual person simply isn't worth going after.
Obviously OS piracy is easier to target. People generally expect computers to come with an OS so computer makers pirating in a nice physical location make a nice target.
With music/movies there's no need for such centralisation.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Confession-is-good-for-the-sold
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
The following windows users have won motorboats.....
Somebody point me to a Chinese OEM, quick!
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Why do you care?
I don't have any reason to doubt that my copy's legit, but if it turns out that I was duped and it isn't. So what?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
How come I can see the Mafia setting up some false-front shop to "sell" illegal copies, and then using a ton of aliases to get legit copies of XP to just resell the copies? I mean, the ethical disinclined could simply put up an elaborate scheme and bilk M$ for legit licenses.
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
By strongly discouraging piracy, people are forced into actually paying for Windows. either directly or indirectly. But a good number of people still have trouble with the concept of paying for an Operating System. So they'll be more encouraged to look at the legal free solutions.
This can only help encourage the growth of Linux.
I never thought I'd ever say this, but go Microsoft! Let's expand this to the States!
So what if someone downloads windows from irc or bittorrent? Can we give out our irc logs as proof of purchase?
[XDCC-R4p3-M3] your file transfer Windows.XP.With.Crack is done
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
Thats an original innovation :-)
God bless MS. Prosec Gates.
Gneo*: That sounds like a really good deal. But...I think I've got a better one. How 'bout I give Microsoft the finger, and I start replacing ALL my crappy installations of Microsoft Windows with GNU and free software, FREE...as in freedom... That way we'll all be free of the evil tyrrany.
Agent Smith^WGates:Hmmm, Mr. Anderson, you disappoint me.
Gneo: You can't scare me with this gestapo crap. I know my rights, I want to use my free software.
Agent Smith^WGates:Tell me, Mr. Anderson. What good is your free software if you can't use a computer without our (evil unpronouncable) NGSCB...Next-Generation Secure Computing Base...?
(If you don't get this, read the Trusted Computing FAQ (incidentally by a guy called Mr. Anderson) and google for trusted (aka trecherous) computing. Also, this study on effects on free software in PDF (also by Mr. Anderson). Also, the FSF's summary.)
[* blend of GNU and Neo. Also note that Gnu sounds like new which is English for `neo'...uhhh...I need a life]
Parts of this post are fair-use copies of The Matrix screenplay and/or parent post.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
A new action- call us and we will sell you legitimate versions of Windows at discount if you use pirated ones. The ones who called had BSA knocking on their door next morning and got busted.
Never believe Microsoft or BSA when they urge to come to them and confess you pirate their software.
--Coder
You know what, I'm ok with this. The people who're going to go along with this are the same people who don't actually know they are using a pirated version. I'm sure there are many a people who had their friendly neighborhood geek install a pirated version of XP on their machines. Mostly for free I'd wager. These people know what they have and won't care. If someone buys a brand new machine - my guess probably from a computer show - and finds out that the strangely cheap copy of windows that came with it is a fake, they have every right to be pissed off. I have no problem with Microsoft going after people who make money from piracy. As long as they leave out the guy doing it for himself.
If Microsoft is going to go help the guy who got screwed while they go after the bastard who screwed him, more power to them.
[Just Shut Up and Do What I say]
They're doing what they do best, the FUD Factory strikes again...
Well, seriously. Even though it looks like a good thing I wouldn't believe EVERYTHING they're saying. It's always tricky when you give out information to giant corporations, sworn statements even more so.
While making an acommodation with my man concerning some combustibles, he mentions he also sells PeeCees.
So like, do you think my "used" $300 IBM Thinkpad has a valid copy of Windows 2000 Professional on it, or should I report him to Microsoft?
unless Microsoft does a 180, Longhorn is going to be OEM only. Least ways that's the rumor, and it seems pretty plausible given that they won the antitrust case.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
From the people who brought you the BSA's bring an audit down on the company that fired you, comes a program to bring down lawsuits on your competitors. It's just another move to put the squeeze on small shops.
Here's some good advice to small shops: quit selling Windoze pronto. Really. Free software does what you need it to and M$ does not care what you've done for them in the past. They are going to squeeze you for every dollar they can, then sue you to kingdom come as their sales revenues go down.
Last year I worked for a good sized store that got burnt by their vendor. The guy was one of MickySoft's best customers, and must have made at least one M$ millionare. His vendors sold him coppies of Windoze that M$ said were pirated. They had all the little stickers and it was impossible to tell the difference. M$ did not care, they took him to court and that cost him years and plenty of money to win.
Now comes this program. Stores can't tell the difference, how on Earth are customers going to know?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Yeah. There. I Said it.
If Microsoft had bulletproof copy protection back in the Microsoft Windows 3.1/WFW3.11 days, they wouldn't have become the giant they are today. "Back in the day" lots of folks made a copy of the Windows floppies (yep, people used to sell software on floppies!) that came with the new PC delivered to the office for use on their home PCs, or even to 'update' older PCs in the office. It was a trivial task and it made Windows so prevalent in the work and home environment that by the time Windows 95 was launched people were hooked. Think crack dealer ("first one's free, dude.").
Whether by guilty conscience, rabid fan-dom, or dare I say consumer satisfaction, people were ready and willing to pony up the bucks to get the latest goods, even using a very liberal and unchecked upgrade policy. How many folks here remember doing the math on upgrades and realizing you could save a hundred bucks by using your copied diskettes as a "qualfying upgrade" product? This was also the case for Microsoft Office - you could go out and buy MS Works and an Upgrade Edition of MS Office 4.2 for less than the shelf price of a full-blown Office Standard install and feel like you've laid a can O' whup-ass on "the man".
That's about to change, the hammer is coming down, World Domination has been achieved. Every potential customer has been tapped. Format lock-in and closed document 'standards' ensure consumer lock-in for the next upgrade round. Maybe.
Consumers are geting really tired of the upgrade mill caused by operating system version changes/upgrades which invariably require them to upgrade all their applications as well, and the insufferable gymnastics involved in something as simple as moving or *gasp* copying their root install to a new hard disk. People really are getting smarter about software and the realize that Microsost is more worried about their intellectual property than the users' precious data. In short, they're treating us like criminals; guilty until proven innocent. SOP.
I like it. I see more and more customers looking at alternatives, and even if that means that have to buy a Linux install from us with Crossover Office just to run their MS Office stuff, so be it. The sooner the end user, the part of the equation that really matters, realizes how badly they've been treated, the better.
Sure, beige box twits who install dodgy copies of XP, and Joe Sixpack users who find themselves unable to update the pirated version they just "bought" with their new whiz-bang PC will find their machine rendered more useless with each newly discovered exploit to go wild, are gonna sweat it huge, but it just means more clients to me. I'm armed and ready with whatever distro they think is pretty enough, and can sell it with a clear conscience.
Are you?
one better than mcleodeight
Some bright boy at MS has noticed that people cheerfully run SP1 because they know that they can not install SP2 on their pirated copy of XP. So, this is the mechanism to get everyone back into the fold, and resume their WindowsUpdate takes over the world one PC at a time strategy.
-- "Have you ever seen your own brain?"
in your possesion you may legally have:
up to 1 gramme of grass and up to 5 copies of WinXP?
Dude, I'm turning myself in. I've got 7 computers running and I did not pay a dime for the software on them. I've even been giving it away to friends, neighbors and other people.
What? They won't give me and everyone one else of those fancy XP CDs for turning ourselves in? What on earth are we going to do without a great deal like that?
I would not install XP if came with a letter from Bill Gates himself. It's worth about as much to me as an AOL CD.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This will cost them a fortune! Don't those things cost hundreds of dollars a piece?
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
What about the legitimate customers?
I paid for my Windows XP Pro original and they deny me activation for having reinstalled it "a bit too often".
I'd rather cut off my penis with a rusty bread knife.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
We'll believe they don't only after they prove that they don't.
Money in lost sales, perhaps. Doesn't cost Microsoft that much to burn CD and print a manual, though.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized!
Since I only pirated one copy, I'll probably be pretty low on the list to get scrobbled.
But see, we don't read the article. So summaries from readers who KNOW WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW make for awesome comments....
Where's +1 Unfortunately True?
So can I copy my copy 4 times more and then obtain 5 licensed versions which I can sell afterwards? ;-)
...to replace the insecure copies of Windows XP with secure ones? ;-)
Hilton says: "Our goal is not to prosecute the individual, our goal is to get to the source"
"THEN we'll go after the individual!!!"
That whole pirating story is just M$ FUD against the religious war to do what the US court system could not accomplish.
Microsoft doesn't actually have to find anybody to come out a winner here. Just the threat that their customers now have a risk-free incentive to turn them in will discourage computer shops from installing bootlegged copies of Windows.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
To get a replacement copy of Windows XP, PC users will need to send off their receipt and complete a witness statement, revealing where they bought their knock-off software.
So the real purpose of this programme is to get consumers to shaft their friendly, local computer stores.
remove the XP crap, get a free Linux,BSD CD and get your freedom with all programs and tools you ever need.
if they want to get to the source, all they have to do is download mIRC. not chase after ghost companies.
It used to be like this;
1. Create a crappy OS.
2. Let every pirate copy it for free.
3. Everybody uses crappy OS.
4. Every company switches to crappy OS because everybody already uses it.
5. Profit
Now they've protected WinXP a bit too good;
1. Create a crappy OS.
2. Nobody can pirate it.
3. Nobody uses it.
4. No company switches.
5. No profit.
So they're fixing it like this;
1. Create a crappy OS.
2. Nobody can pirate it.
3. Distribute it for free to pirates.
4. Everybody uses it.
5. Every company switches.
6. Profit.
Sounds familiar?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
which they've already lost due to piracy, so it's not really any price at all to hunt out the people at the top.
It is a joke, laugh.. How can anyone mod it insightful?
Amnesty? A good start could be stop calling "pirates" to the owners of Microsoft's software unlicensed copies.
Try again, Microsoft. ;)
It must be difficult to continue to wring money out of a market the way M$ does. On one hand, there's a free OS competing on both merit and price. On the other hand, there are tons of people who don't want to pay for the ever-increasing cost of Windows.
The thing that sucks about being a monopoly is that they have no where to go but down.
I guess Microsoft really liked the idea of the RIAA's amnesty program, and decide to copy the wildly successful model!
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I know they're doing it for their own benefits, but i actually think it's a good thing. If i buy a DVD movie somewhere i don't want it to be a illegal copy either. Not because it's worse quality than the legit copy (maybe the cover print is worse but whatever), but because i believe i'm buying the Real Thing® so that's what i want to receive, i certainly don't want to be part of a scam like this. (if you don't care if a DVD is copied or not, think of buying a car and get a stolen model from poland instead of what you think you're buying)
Microsoft won't stop people pirating like this, they help people who wanted to get the legit copy to actually own a legit copy. And Microsoft will of course gain profit in the end.
Sample this!
This seems pretty harmless, since it is targeted at individuals. OEMs that ship pirated windows are easier to control than individuals or companies using pirated windows anyway. The right way for OEMs to pirate now is to sell a PC without windows, and then send a consultant (who acts as an individual, and your company is not responsible for his actions) to install windows on that computer at customer's home.
The action I was talking about in parent post was targeted at companies, small-to-medium sized ones. So it made much more sence to bust them with BSA than there is now. A few companies were made an examle of and went bankrupt because of this.
Anyway, the lesson is- don't trust Microsoft, and NEVER EVER trust BSA. Don't give them any information or evidence they can use against you.
--Coder
I doubt if anyone would come forward to get his thing replaced.b'cause in most cases its the person himself who pirates than the dealer........ so this is just an useless initiative
Damn, i should never drink Tequila for B'fast again.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Replace your pirated software with pirated software you pay for! Damn! Where do I sign up?
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Why does this now feel like deja-vu all-over again ? It's (reemburse legit buyers of pirated copies) exactly the response I wrote (to this board) when I first read about their "check if your version is legit" program :-)
...
But, first trying to just put un-baited mouse-traps out (seeing how much dumb mouses there are out there) is a lot cheaper than to bait them
>asshats that sell it to idiots that couldn't figure >out IRC to save their lives.
For the idiots to figure it out, they'd already have to be online already to IRC. Thats why you buy an OEM OS.
Windows XP has always been Microsoft's first big step into clamping down on the freedoms that most users have taken for granted up until now.
From Microsoft's perspective, there is very little money to be made from just selling OSes any more, hence the licensing lock-ins that most guarantee regular income to MS.
With regard to home and private users, make no mistake that MS intends to become a utility company alongside your electricity, gas and telephone provider. They want everyone to rent software and licenses that allow all of us to use the data we freely had access to and control over ourselves.
Windows XP, along with WMP 10 and ultimately DRM hardware will force the rental model upon all Windows users - sure, it will be sold as security enhancements to Joe Public but will ultimately force all Windows users to continually pay to use their software or suffer deactivation.
This is why Microsoft can afford to give away XP because, in the longer term, they will gain from this.
It's important that, in the Open Source user-base, we continue to push home the message that it's not just about security & stability when choosing to use FOSS - its primarily about personal freedoms and maintaining our rights to use whatever software we want on our computers.
So don't get lost amongst the smoke and mirrors of what MS is doing here by giving away XP - it's ultimately about everyone paying money to MS in the future for the rights to do the things they did freely in the past.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
In all my born days I have seen about a dozen legit copies of any version of Windows {including 3.11 on a stack of floppies} -- including about six at my workplace. Everyone else I know has an operating system they didn't pay for: either a dodgy copy of Windows, or Linux.
.sxw and .sxc files, would be a little baffled at first; but soon come to realise that they are OpenOffice files. Then they would install OpenOffice -- and maybe notice that instead of dire warnings against copying, comes a notice encouraging you to copy and spread their software!
This is how it works in the UK. If you go to a back-street computer shop -- not PriCey World, not Dixons, but an actual independent retailer, a 21st century artisan -- to buy a machine, you get told the cost of the hardware not including software. Not even Windows. You are then given a choice: either you can take the machine away like that and install your own software, or you can pay for a legitimate copy of Windows and Office and all the usual crap like Outlook Express and Internet Exploder.
At this point the customer probably is going to be shocked by how much the software will cost; and unless they are particularly straight-arsed about such matters, will inquire discreetly about a cheaper way. The shopkeeper's younger assistant will offer to do the job, strictly on the quiet and subject to the customer never breathing a word. The receipt says "No Operating System" and the cost of the software is paid, in cash, straight into the assistant's sky rocket. Lovely!
The customer leaves, thinking they got one up on Microsoft by ripping off "hundreds of pounds" of software. Hey, it feels so good, stickin' it to The Man! And Ballmer cackles, because he knows the customer still believes they need Microsoft. Truth is, it's The Man who stuck it to you. Just because you didn't pay for it, doesn't make it less buggy or crash-prone. You still haven't got the source code -- and having a competent programmer look at the source code is the only way ever to make it less buggy and crash-prone. You still get every disadvantage you would have got if you had paid full whack for a legit copy, on top of the twin disadvantages that it's illegal and you know full well.
In a more sorted universe, the shopkeeper would of course say, "Sure! You could have Linux and OpenOffice instead, for nothing." The customer would spend a day or two getting used to it and then realise they didn't need Microsoft. The customer's friends, being emailed loads of
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
..and you don't even need to show your receipts!
otherwise M$ would go bankrupt... :)
I don't feel like it...
install linux instead ?? for the half savvy computer user who don't want to pay for windows ? Is there any distros that come preinstalled with spell checkers, printer drivers... so I could sell to small business then profit !! nope it sucks because 250 $ for windows is worth more than the new hardware. when you buy a new pc with windows, it cost you like 50$ so I guess it's a better deal.
If you buy a computer from a small computer shop, what are the chances that the hard drive, CPU or other components are stolen or black market? Possible, but not very likely.
So why would they install a pirated copy of Windows? BECAUSE WINDOWS IS TOO F***ING EXPENSIVE! That's why.
Would somebody please smack Mr. Ballmer upside the head with the biggest clue stick available. The f***ing operating system costs twice as much as any other component in the computer!!
hell, I'll replace your pirated windows for free.
Which distro would you like?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Sorry, but it has to be said.
Why are people pirating Windows when Linux is free?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
When a normal user buys a computer, he expects some degree of guarantee and support. He'll probably buy an upgrade at some point too. This means there's likely to be an ongoing relationship between the customer and his hardware/software vendor(s). With music, you receive a CD and that's it. You never have to upgrade a CD.
This is why computer brand names still have value and why you probably don't know the 'brand name' (meaning the producers of the physical CD) of any of the CDs you own.
For Microsoft it means that it will have an easier time at catching the sellers of hardware then include illegal copies of their operating systems, because the computer vendors are more or less static in the market place. Think about the sales of illegally copied CDs, they tend to occur in open air markets and other non-official places of business rather than in shops.
Thus, the RIAA has a much more difficult task. Granted there are lots of mass producers of illegally copied CDs, but the average consumer is so far down in the supply chain that they won't have useful information to help eliminate the music pirates. Lots of music is pirated by end users and this has the RIAA much more worried.
In Microsoft's case, most OS sales are made via hardware vendors via the infamous Microsoft tax. This is why Microsoft is interesting in going after vendors selling illegal copies, namely because they can and perhaps also they rightly realize they will not greatly damage their name in the process.
---- It won't be as bad as you fear or as good as you hope, but it will take twice as long as you plan.
Don't those things cost hundreds of dollars a piece?
Sigh.... IP property doesn't have a cost and they are not giving you anything so it should be free. But what I wanna know is do they include the source like that other free OS?
First off, what the hell is intellectual property property? Is that like PIN number? Secondly, IP doesn't have a cost? No cost to develop? No cost in man hours? No cost to protect?
What is the advantage of having a MS legit copy instead a copy that was purchased in good faith not knowing that the seller was a pirate?
:)
giving your full data to MS? nahh
doing their work hunting pirates for free? naah
at least give me MSoffice
NEOCA - Custom LED Flashlights
Some mods use "the real" +1s on funny because "+1 Funny" does nothing for that persons karma, so that "+3 Funny, -1 Overrated" actually lessens the karma of the poster.
Different variations on this reason can be given, I'm just too lazy to type them, so I'll let you think for yourself.
You also forgot to mention those wonderful green and blue LeGo-colours...
Well, except LeGo stopped producing the green blocks soon after introducing them in the 30s as they caused heavy poisoning...
First off, what the hell is intellectual property property? Is that like PIN number? Secondly, IP doesn't have a cost? No cost to develop? No cost in man hours? No cost to protect?
No, the pin for your ATM is a genuine thing, it is like the key to your house. The software you develop has a development cost. The license that you sell may or may not have had one. Developers no longer sell their developed product. So I spend 5 million dollars developing my widget and no matter how many people pay me 200$ a shot I still am THE SOLE owner of my widget. That is intellectual property. That is the concept that is without cost, not the product.
When will the moderators stop acknowledging people who rehash the old "here's a security patch for IE" with a link to firefox or people linking to Linux distributions with an equally witty comment, ie. the parent. It's been done a thousand times before and adds nothing to the conversation
All this time I wondered why my copy had a genie instead of the paperclip.
Visit Snowflake Showers
What the hell is he thinking? Software wears out? That there are only so many bits to go around, and they get recycled, but the "used" ones aren't as good as new ones?
Maybe he thinks it's like those rental DVDs from Blockbuster?
Clue has just left building. I repeat, clue has just left the building.
I'll help you replace your pirated Windows for free with Linux, too!
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
My CD came from Russia. Go get them pirate CD factories! What the pirates protecting the factory have more guns than the police force?
Oh tough...
then go to the store and get your free copy. Bring it home read the EULA and disagree with it. Go back to the store for refund. Install Linux and profit.
Hummm!!! Microsoft is trying to get to the faulty vendors using free cheap labor (us by the way).I say let's not give them any help!! their OS arent cheap and they come heavily bugged,,they should lower the price for all the bugs those things have.
Why are a bunch of anti-Microsoft zealots worried about people being caught out in Windows piracy?
Is it because you believe everything should be free (as in beer) and actually use the product by... er... stealing it?
Why not use your m4d l1nux sk111z to perfect Wine instead?
There actually is quite a lot of people who build PCs for sale that will pirate the pre-installed software to save some cash on costs. The buyer might never know it was pirated until MS raises a red flag and offers them free copies of Windows for the identity of the pirate.
Yes. That was my point.
If you turn yourself in when there is an expectation of amnesty, which was the case during that incident, there is a very good chance you will still be punished if the agency delivering the promise has a history of deceitful behavior. Very basic.
But then I suppose, somebody functioning at your level of refinement can't really be expected to grasp such 'difficult' concepts. Don't worry. The game is rapidly deteriorating and will soon be moving at a speed you will probably find more accommodating. --Already you are increasingly encouraged to turn in your brown neighbors.
You'll probably fit right in.
-FL
He who leads into captivity. .
1. Take phone directory, list all computer shops in your area.
2. Visit each one and buy a trinket and try to grab as much stuff with the shop logo. Lift a bill pad when they're not looking if you can.
3. Ask each one to bid on a fake proposal to get as much letterhead, etc.
4. Make fake bills using photoshop/Quark/InDesign.
5. Send the fake to Microsoft. List address you pick up in the phonebook. Random people will receive boxes of WinXP. You're that generous.
6. Open shop with almost no competition.
If Microsoft wants pirated copies introduced to developing countries, could this be a way of tracking the pirated copies to determine the best way to inject copies of windows in the that particular country.
Ok, time to change my tinfoil...
CDs can be made for $1-$2 per disc in quantity. Throw it in a jewel case, slap on a certificate of bugginess, and you might be up to $3.
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
"Let 100 flowers bloom..." -- Mao Zedong
:)
Mao did *so* love to play whack-a-mole
As with most /. comment threads, I am dumbfounded by the number of replies to this.
My thought is this though:
Sure, it seems as though they're going to help people be "more legal" with their copy of Windows, but what kind of list are they keeping of who has pirated and who hasn't? It just seems to me like they are keeping tally, and will hit those people with lawsuits later on.
It might just be my general paranoia of Microsoft, but I don't trust them, even on this.
Ignoring the quite possibly legitimate desire to harrass "pirates" (yar!), this move boils down to MS giving away their product.
Last time I checked, giving away your product was considered an anti-competitive practise, although IANAL.
Giving away samples, like trial sizes or, in the software industry, limited use versions, is strictly marketing-related. If you give away the whole thing, you're not marketing -- you're giving away the product, for crying out loud.
Then again, when it gets you news articles that make you look good, it certainly is PR.
But it's also a bold attempt to help solidify the monopoly by giving it away to people who won't buy it, because either they can't afford it or it's simply not worth the sticker price, to them. It's better to give it away because then they can be sucked into the upgrade process.
Also it's to MS's benefit to reduce the number of installs that cannot be upgraded to SP2. They need SP2 adoption to put some kind of brakes on the spyware explosion, which is really hurting their image amongst regular folks.
My interpretation only.
Stand back. I've got a brain and I'm not afraid to use it.
Thank you Microsoft for not destroying the lives of individuals. Death to the source!
Yep, If you've found something of high quality, It is absolutely NOT from Microsoft.
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
what happens to the nice guys at the local computer store who re-installed XP on my Dell for me after I lost my Restore CD's?
For note: my XP appears to be pirated acording to the How-to-Tell MS site and I payed only for labor to reinstall the OS. Oh, and now I want to claim a new copy of XP for free.
Sounds pretty fair!
This is, by the way, the unspoken (okay, well, I had it spoken to me by an executive of a relatively small software company that makes a closed-source produce I've heard people raving about on Slashdot before) rule about piracy: they don't really care about the home pirates (although they don't like it), they only care about instutional pirates: Those are the real threats to their market.
It's very reasonable of MS to want the customers to tell them who sold them a bad copy of Windows, and then replace it for free. MS wins, consumer wins, business doing something illegal loses.
Try this logic
* Some honest user reports their illegal version, which is most likely just a copy installed using illegal serial number.
* Microsoft logs the stolen serial number into their windows update database.
* When other users with that serial number get windows updates (which are usually automatic), as much personal information as possible gets stole^h^h^h^h logged. After all, this person is a criminal, right?
* Then their PC downloads and installs the latest "update", which permanently disables their PC and displays a phone number to call.
This all seems to be a way that Microsoft can get a few serial numbers and disable many illegal installs.
Where's -1 stfu n00b?
It happened to me recently, I complained with Cmdr_Taco and somehow the day after my karma was back from the dead (from bad to neutral) a few days passed on and i got moderated overrated again, karma went below zero. The day after my karma was restored to neutral and is now positive after no posting and a few metamoderations I made.
Can someone point me to the whole set of rules karma follows, I seem to loose and gain it almost randomly even when I stay away from my pc...
http://slashdot.org/moderation.shtml
Bottom of the doc
You are not very talented in recognizing sarcasm aren't you?
16,777,216 comments ought to be enough for any forum!
Mod parent up...Methinks the original poster doesn't understand what a NIC card is.
I forgot where I was posting. My bad.
How are these even an issue, unless you are a pirate?
The activation means that XP has a life limited by MS. My 3 legal copies of 2k have life only limited by my needs.
I am more and more of the opinion that MS doesn't care much about piracy. First the lack of copy protection in SP2, then this. I think they actually prefere people to use pirate copies of Windows XP than to use Linux/BSD/OS X. Their monopoly and the money from large corporations is much more important than money from home users.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Hmm... replacements? Alex Hilton? Am I the only one reminded of The Replacements song Alex Chilton?
Gotta love the Box Tops. Not to mention Big Star.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
If you have your XP license key (should be on the side of your desktop or bottom of your laptop), then just burn a copy of someone else's Home or Pro CD (depending on which version the key is for). It's legal, because you have a license.
OEM keys are different from Retail keys.
See this guide to Windows XP Product Keys.
then why isn't XP sold for 20 bucks(pounds, whatever)?
Fortunatly sales of office and XP have been substantially less then MS had hoped.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
HL2.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
With Microsoft's volumes I would be surprised if they pay more than $1 per disk.
It's a fairly inexpensive way to build a database of dealers (probably smaller stores) who are willing to cut corner and individuals, who were willing to run pirot copies.
You can sell this info for other companies, set-up survaillance to monitor their future activities for future actions.
Clever, evil idea.
Win2k Pro is stable, and with SP4, relatively secure.
As is XP.
Wrong. Win2k Pro can run for weeks. XP crashes once per day (sometimes twice).
Win2k Pro DOES NOT have integrated DRM, and no "activation".
How are these even an issue, unless you are a pirate?
That comment really makes my blood boil. It's an issue because not only do Microsoft make shit operating systems, they make operating systems that become progressively more shit over time, until they are so shit you need to dig out the install CD and re-install the OS from scratch. And then what? Spend an hour of my precious time on the phone to 'register' a product I have ALREADY PAID FOR?
Do you want to pay me for my time in 'registering' my product? What's that? You want to waste $50 of MY time to solve YOUR piracy problem?
Win2k Pro uses less system resources
If XP uses more resources, then it's only marginally so.
Translation: I have no idea if XP uses more resources but I'll say it doesn't anyway.
My experience: On the same hardware, XP uses approx 30-50% more memory and runs about 20-50% slower than any of it's predecessors.
It's the exact opposite. XP's feature set is a superset of W2K Pro's.
No, there used to be a perfectly usable find dialog, and now there is something that is "helpful" in the Microsoft sense. I had to turn off the Mickey Mouse interface just so I didn't spend all day clicking answers to "helpful questions" on the way to the control panel, or the printer.
Fast user switching.
I don't know what you mean by that.
Really, it's pretty sad if you think W2K is better than XP in any way, shape, or form. Maybe you were just trolling. Otherwise feel free to continue to use W2K in blissful ignorance.
Well, I would really like to. Unfortunately I am unable to purchase W2k Pro in retail, OEM or otherwise. Can you enlighten me where I can obtain a legal copy for home use?
If XP is crashing for you daily, then something is wrong on your end. Probably you have a bad driver, or your hardware is unstable. Others are not suffering as you are. I used W2K for about 2 years, then XP for the last 3 years, and I've *never* had either crash. I've occasionally had applications crash (including IE and OE), but never the OS.
And then what? Spend an hour of my precious time on the phone to 'register' a product I have ALREADY PAID FOR? Do you want to pay me for my time in 'registering' my product? What's that? You want to waste $50 of MY time to solve YOUR piracy problem?
The reason you are so upset about activation is that you have no idea how it works. Have you every actually installed XP??? If you are simply reinstalling on the same machine, you never have to call in. There's another post of mine in this thread that describes activation in more detail. I suggest you read it. Or read about it on MS's site.
Translation: I have no idea if XP uses more resources but I'll say it doesn't anyway.
No, it means that I haven't noticed a significant increase in resource usage, so it can't really be that significant. It might be 30-50% like you estimate, but only if you count extra services that are running (e.g. firewall, themes). Disable those and you get a fairer comparison. Or don't. I'm willing to live with a 30-50% increase in memory usage every few years in exchange for new features, especially given that memory prices are dropping at a faster rate than that.
I had to turn off the Mickey Mouse interface just so I didn't spend all day clicking answers to "helpful questions" on the way to the control panel, or the printer.
The defaults definitely are aimed at newer users, moreso than in W2K. It makes sense to cater to the lowest common denominator, especially since XP is aimed at more of a mass market than W2K. Experienced users can change the defaults to something more to their liking quite easily. BTW, I recommend having both the Control Panel and Printers expanded right in the Start menu.
[Fast user switching.] I don't know what you mean by that.
It's a feature wherein you can effectively suspend your own login session (open apps, etc.) while someone else logs in and does stuff. I guess it's good for families who are contending for computer time. I have no use for it personally.
Unfortunately I am unable to purchase W2k Pro in retail, OEM or otherwise. Can you enlighten me where I can obtain a legal copy for home use?
Understandably, not too many retail stores are selling it anymore, because Windows XP makes it obsolete. But a simple web search turned up all kinds of places where you can buy it. Try Amazon.com. Or make me a decent offer and I'll sell you my copy. I have five licenses of XP, so I don't need W2K anymore.
If XP is crashing for you daily, then something is wrong on your end. Probably you have a bad driver, or your hardware is unstable.
... Firefox comes to mind.
I have a compaq presario laptop. Should I return it to the manufacturer? What would they do? Nearly everything inside is soldered onto the board.
Ironically, it came with a cute little sticker that said "Build for Windows XP" or something similar.
Others are not suffering as you are. I used W2K for about 2 years, then XP for the last 3 years, and I've *never* had either crash.
I've had NT4 SP6 running for 5 years and the only time it core dumped is when I had faulty RAM or a faulty graphics card. It was (and still is) running on my desktop.
I've occasionally had applications crash (including IE and OE), but never the OS.
Those are two applications I never use, and have been virus free for years. I have had plenty of other applications crash tho
I'm willing to live with a 30-50% increase in memory usage every few years in exchange for new features, especially given that memory prices are dropping at a faster rate than that.
Personally, I don't want the OS vendor to put 'new features' into the OS, I just want them to fix the bugs and improve the robustness. Features I can get from ISVs and the Internet. So this situation ends up being OK for you, but leaves me without a choice.
The defaults definitely are aimed at newer users, moreso than in W2K.
So you are telling me that they dumped their old product, and their old users and aimed their new product at new users?
It makes sense to cater to the lowest common denominator, especially since XP is aimed at more of a mass market than W2K.
It makes more sense for Microsoft. Silly me, here I was thinking that companies made decisions for the benefit of their customers.
Or make me a decent offer and I'll sell you my copy. I have five licenses of XP, so I don't need W2K anymore.
Forgot to mention that I am in AU. What would you call a 'decent offer'. I value the OS at no more than AUD$60 delivered, which is the OEM price on a new machine.
The reason you are so upset about activation is that you have no idea how it works.
Wrong.
Have you every actually installed XP???
Yes, it took an hour. First, I tried to activate it online. The browser got caught in an infinite loop where I could never get the to final page. I persisted for about 10 minutes of so, then I called Microsoft.
It took
~10 minutes to get through the voice mail system
~35 minutes on hold
~10 minutes to give my details and get my activation number.
All up ~65 minutes, so lets call it an hour.
Now if I buy a new computer, or upgrade, are you telling me when I install XP I won't have to activate it?
And i'm sure the development cost of windows was recouped many years ago. The fact is with things like this, you only have initial costs, not ongoing costs like you do when producing physical goods.
So then, why is hardware getting steadily cheaper while software is just increasing in price? They should be held accountable and not be allowed to take more than a nominal profit on each item.. They would still do well out of shear volume, but would then be on a fairer playing field with hardware makers etc.
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I have no idea what you were doing, as activation doesn't even involve a web browser. All I can say is that it's never taken me more than 1 minute to activate XP.
All up ~65 minutes, so lets call it an hour.
Given the description of the problems you were having, this sounds more like a technical support call than an activation call. I have heard reports of activation calls taking a long time, but that was mostly a few years back when they were still learning what the level of demand would be.
Now if I buy a new computer, or upgrade, are you telling me when I install XP I won't have to activate it?
If you get a new computer, or if you upgrade radically enough that XP thinks you have a new computer, you will have to activate it. Although new computers usually come with XP preinstalled and preactivated.
Exactly. The vast majority of their customers are either newbies or they have been using computers for a while but still don't know what the hell they're doing, and need as much guidance as they can get. The Slashdot crowd is *not* representative of the computing population in general. The small portion who do know what they are doing can turn off all the handholding quite easily.
Forgot to mention that I am in AU. What would you call a 'decent offer'. I value the OS at no more than AUD$60 delivered, which is the OEM price on a new machine.
I probably can't even ship it to Australia for that. :(
The small portion who do know what they are doing can turn off all the handholding quite easily.
So how do I get the old 'Find Dialog' back? You know, then one with three tabs and no annoying questions about what kind of file I want to find.
I have no idea what you were doing, as activation doesn't even involve a web browser. All I can say is that it's never taken me more than 1 minute to activate XP.
It did 18 months ago. I don't know about now as I go to great lengths to avoid installing XP on any computer.
Given the description of the problems you were having, this sounds more like a technical support call than an activation call.
In AU, all calls go through the same voice mail system, or at least they did when I activated XP last time (about 18 months ago).
If you get a new computer, or if you upgrade radically enough that XP thinks you have a new computer, you will have to activate it. Although new computers usually come with XP preinstalled and preactivated.
So that would mean that if I buy a new computer I am paying for software again that I already have paid for previously.
If I upgrade, you are telling me that I would need to go through the activation process again. Last time I called Microsoft they told me that XP could not be activated twice, has this changed?
I honestly don't know what the old Find Dialog looked like, nor do I even know what the new one looks like. :) Searching for files is something I've never had a need to do. I guess I'm just very organized and always know where my files are.
But just fiddling with it now, there do appear to be ways to customize it. Click on "Change preferences" and have a look. One option called "Without an animated character" gets rid of the animated doggy. Another one called "Change files and folders search behaviour" lets you toggle between Standard and Advanced modes. In Advanced mode, it no longer asks you a series of questions, it just presents fields that you can fill in. Hope this helps.
OTOH, Dealers who get cold feet about selling machines with pirated copies of Windows MIGHT just switch to pushing computers with a default installation of Linux instead.
(Which do you think Joe Cheap will get, a cheap computer with $XX added to cover a legitimite Windows license, or the same computer minus $XX fee with Linux?)
The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
So that would mean that if I buy a new computer I am paying for software again that I already have paid for previously.
You *might* have to pay for a new version of XP. It depends what version you have now. There is a limited license version that MS sells to manufacturers that is "for distribution with new PCs only". They sell it for very cheap, and the end-user is only licensed to use it on that PC. A lot of people have this version and think that 1) they paid somewhere in the order of $100-$200 for the OS as part of the purchase price of the computer (they didn't; it's more like $18), and 2) they are entitled to install it on different PCs as if it were the full retail version (they aren't). I have to admit that what I've just said though is a bit of heresay, because I've never actually had my hands on this version of XP. It could be that reinstalling it on a different PC works. If so, go for it.
Now, if you have a retail copy of XP (either the $99 US "upgrade" or the $199 US "full" version) then you can definitely install it many times -- an infinite number of times on the same PC, or up to 5 times on totally different PCs, before you even have to call in. If the people on the phone told you differently then it's either because you have a limited license version like I described above, or they were mistaken (since I doubt the license is much different in Australia than in Canada).
I honestly don't know what the old Find Dialog looked like, nor do I even know what the new one looks like. :) Searching for files is something I've never had a need to do. I guess I'm just very organized and always know where my files are.
... I went through those preferences 6 months ago and didn't find that option ... Hmmm, maybe I still had the Mickey Mouse interface turned on.
All 700 of them? Each and every one? That's amazing. You can recall the full path name for every one of your files. Superlative!
In Advanced mode, it no longer asks you a series of questions, it just presents fields that you can fill in. Hope this helps.
Much better. Not as good as the old one, but much better. Strange