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Windows Longhorn and Internet Explorer 7
An anonymous reader writes "At Gnomedex this year, Microsoft is excited about the new RSS integration into Windows Longhorn and Internet Explorer 7. Screenshots of Internet Explorer 7 reveal how Microsoft has added a search tool to the top right of the browsing window similar to the one found in Safari/Firefox. Also, Microsoft revealed that RSS will be integrated into the heart of Longhorn."
Stop the machine.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
Maybe its just me. But it looks like FireFox with some Longhorn UI added. :P
Karma whoring
This is a good move by MSFT, but their lack of respect for web developers is ridiculous.
:hover for all elements? Or any semblance of support for floating elements? And they simply seem incapable of giving a straight answer!
Markus Mielke, quite possibly the most braindead member of humanity ever to use a computer, seems to think that separating content from presentation is wrong. See here for details. Even worse, the article he links says the reason is that CSS3 is not ready. This is despite the fact that the IE team won't even support CSS 2.1 fully in IE7! Yes, they might have fixed Peekaboo and Guillotine, but how about
Dave Massy, senior program manager and all round idiot, in comments to this article, says that support for MathML and SVG should be left to 'experts', never answering the very pertinent query about why Microsoft isn't an expert in web technologies.
Why not go over to the IEBlog and let them have a piece of your mind?
Video: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=8053 3
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
It's sad.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Available in late 2007.
Well now I'm almost positive that the search engine integrated into IE is MSN's own. And since IE is embedded into Windows, this has a good chance of reducing traffic for Google, Yahoo, and other search engines. So can we expect to see a possible lawsuit for these unfair business practices, which Microsoft is infamous for?
Hero of Allacrost, a FOSS RPG for *NIX/*BSD/OS X/Win
Microsoft is adding technology into Longhorn? For a moment, I thought it was another announcement of yet another technology being pulled from the house of cards called Longhorn. The next thing that they will be announcing is a Mactel version.
Great news for Micro$oft, terrible news for The People. Hardly surprising if you ask me. I wonder what about the EU marker, for it seems that only Europeans have any balls these days. Hopefully they will ban this "integration" scam. Of course the US customers are boned like always.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
Also, Microsoft revealed that RSS will be integrated into the heart of Longhorn.
It may just be the way the submitter wrote it, but this reeks of hype and buzzwordism as well, as though marketing pulled it out of their ass during a presentation or something.
Can't we just all get along? ---
All men aren't pigs... we just smell that way.
I'm fairly certain that search bar uses msn search :). Do you think IE users will start using that instead of going to google first?
Perhaps if you only have 3 or 4 IE windows open at the same time I would agree with you. But when I do online shopping or something where I'm going to be looking at multiple pages on the same site, or perhaps I always want a tab with Slashdot open in it, tabs become much more convenient. Once you get used to them they are far easier to manage. I prefer a single instance in my taskbar with 10+ tabs open rather than 10+ instances in my taskar.
"0101100101? It's just jibberish. *looks in mirror, gasps* 1010011010@!? AHHHHHH!!"
Has Microsoft resorted to stealing other peoples ideas again?
Live life to the fullest. It's not that life is short, but that you are dead for so long.
You sound like JWZ.
Yes, if you read his "blog", he actually says how stupid and awful tabs are.
I bet he hates wireless stuff and modems without baud rates, too.
Tabs make things easier because they help you organize what you're browsing and what you're doing locally. If I'm photoshopping an image, chatting on AIM, and browsing the internet, having one Firefox window for everything you're browsing just simplifies things. I know that if I want to edit my images, I go down to the taskbar. If I want to hit Google real fast, bring up Firefox. Also, dragging the taskbar to the top of the screen means an extra couple of inches I have to go with my mouse to cycle through the webpages I'm reading. It's just inconvenient. IMHO, tabs are nice. Tabs are our friends.
"RSS will be integrated into the heart of Longhorn." Oh my god! Someone get on the phone to Linus Torvalds and tell him to integrate RSS into the Linux kernel as fast as possible!
CfkRAp1041vYQVbFY1aIwA== RV/hBCLKKcSTP5UFK3kqsg==
Has anyone suggested that Microsoft create 2 parallel operating systems: slimware version and bloatware version? I want a slimmed down version of Windows that includes just a little more than a true pre-emptively multi-tasked kernel I also want a slimmed down web client that lacks support for ActiveX and anything else that is not strictly necessary for accessing the secure website run by my bank.
I need little more. I suspect that this barebones configuration meets the need of most Americans, who are not tech savy.
That is all I need
if your pants fit well, it's not only because of the pants
Every version of opera ive ever used has this. Default is google, theres also amazon, ebay, download.com, dealtime. You can add others too.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
"Windows Longhorn: 'The Vapor Tiger' or 'Like Tiger...on Paper'...NEXT on Geral^H^H^H^H^HSlashdot's Origami OS News!"
sorry. it's late and i'm tired.
The beauty of tabbed browsing becomes apparent when you have a bookmarks folder full of your favorite sites in firefox and you right click and select 'open in tabs' and 20+ of your favorite sites open in a single window for you to peruse while you drink your morning coffee.
And "us" keeps shamelessly copying them. GAIM, OpenOffice, XMMS, and even Linux itself.
Don't hold Microsoft to a double-standard.
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
In soviet russia, apple copies microsoft^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h you!
Seriously though, Microsoft has been taking their sweet time for OS development. They are a hulking bohemoth. When was the last major update to the OS? All of these features that they are touting for their new software have already been implemented. Tabbed browsing in IE7. Big deal. That's so Opera and Firefox. Instantaneous indexed searching. Yawn, hey that's just like Spotlight.
Microsoft really needs to pick up the ball. So when the only other primary consumer competitor you have has an OS development cycle that is ~1-1.5 years between updates, and yours is twice that (not to mention MS's oft ridiculed delays in release), I don't think you can really claim any type of innovation or something.
Just like driving a car:
(D) to go forward
(R) to go backward
Am I the only one confused as to why M$ would call the gathering Gnomedex? I though it was going to have something to do with the Gnome desktop and M$ for second. Wierd.
My humor is probably your flamebait
When IE 7 comes out and all the Joe Average people start using it (via auto updating, or the new computer they bought, or whatever), they're gonna see the finally-added features and think, "Wow, look at these new things Microsoft created! They're amazing!" because they've never used anything but IE. Microsoft thus gains mindshare for nothing.
I use and enjoy tabbed browsing daily.
What I don't ever use is a taskbar at the top of the screen. What's the big fuss about dragging your taskbar all around?
put their GUI on it and call it IE 7
I don't think they even did that.
Cheers,
RoadkillBunny
Microsoft really needs to hire some real UI artists one of these days.
Personally, i dont need the windows title bar, address bar, etc taking of a chunk of the screen like that. It must be a low res shot but still...
MS likes to make these big screen eating UI's with things that most people never use.
..since Safari (2.0) 'stole' just as much from Firefox' layout as IE. I wonder why so many complain about it.
Either way, it seems like their RSS engine is still lagging behind in terms of functionality; there doesn't seem to be an option to make each synopsis shorter/longer, for instance. Maybe in the full version there will be though..
And I wonder where the hell the menubar is located in those pictures.. If this is how Longhorn going to look (has it any relevance to Longhorn's GUI style?), I'm severely worried (/excited/bemused) by the incompetence of MS' staff.
I suppose there *is* an end to everything..
- GAIM is copying AIM made by AOL. (and even they didn't invent that idea)
- To say OpenOffice is copying MS Office is possible, assuming you also think MS invented office suites. (HAHA)
- XMMS copies WinAmp. Which is made by Nullsoft, who incidently is also owned by AOL.
- Linux is copying Unix. Which I am pretty sure MS hasn't gotten around to buying yet.
I would point out that none of these cases was meant as direct competition. MS is copying Firefox for competitive reasons. Not saying it's wrong. Just debunking your shoddy double-standard allegation.:wq
Which is realy not the fault fo the devolopers. I am sure they are very good. But when the goal is get and keep clients, and force is an option, one has a hard time justifing a customer centered approach to development. I mean it is kind of a waste of time to sweet talk a victim if you are just going to knock him out and take his money.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Opening seperate explorer.exe's instead of tabs takes a lot more system resources than opening another tab. It's alot easier on your system to have 20 tabs open instead of 20 IE windows.
Just debunking your shoddy double-standard allegation.
You did a shoddy job at that. You more or less reaffirmed my point.
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
Is it just me, or does that screenshot look surprisingly like the Pinstripe theme from Firefox?
Yay. Where did the other 4 years of development go?
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Windows has the handy ability to group similar programs in the taskbar, alot of people put this function down, but i find it invaluable to be able to manage large groups of windows at the same time. Its like tabs, inside tabs, abeit in the task bar.
Is it just me, or is the toolbar Brushed Metal from OS X, and the icons from FireFox...?
A new standard is not necesarrily worth supporting just because it is an approved standard.
Otherwise, all of those C programmers would never have continued to use C once C++ was an ansi/iso standard.
WWW standards are notoriously transitory and need to have a 7 year or longer cycle between new adopted standards. A 3 or 4 year cycle means that most software vendors/open source teams will be one or more old standards back.
Sounds like you need Exposé!
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/
They link to http://maxthon.com/images_screens/full.png as a screenshot.
Too bad if you're using IE, you won't be able to see it, because IE can't handle PNGs.
I really hope IE7 adds better PNG support. I got used to using PNGs after using Firefox and Safair for so long, I totally forgot about IE not knowing how to handle them.
Instead of being able to just throw a bunch of PNGs in a directory and link to them, I ended up making a bunch of html pages that consisted of a single img src tag, because I guess IE knows how to handle embedded PNGs, but not those which are standalone.
Anyways, that's it for the rant, your link just made me think of IE's shitty PNG support.
>RSS will be integrated into the heart of Longhorn
Maybe there will be a scripting extension so I can add some dynamic content to my blog.
Hey how about automatic forwarding?
Seeing this news item really awakened me to the lack of innovation with Internet software these days. Embedding RSS into IE is mundane to the extreme. This pales in comparison to the rate at which ideas were pouring out 5-7 years ago. I suppose the browser is a mature market, but is it really? Perhaps we need to go back and look at some of the older ideas that were ahead of their time now that the Internet infrastructure is more mature. It just feels like we are still staring at the embers of a long-dead bonfire.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
why do they need to pick up the ball ? Longhorn will likely have a the majority percentage of used choice OS. They managed to do it with all their OS's, regardless of the critique. It wont change, just be glad your firefox's has a chance to run on it. :)
What you describe is ms's way of handling and
it has always been successful with it, after all,
do they have not the biggest piece of the cake
untill now ? :)
MS is doing well, and their assimilation is successful. Like it or not.
Yes it does. The Heart of Gold.
"Windows turned my computer into a bowl of petunias!"
Gotta admit, they have some smart people there. Yes, firefox is a superior browser, technologically. Yes, it's open source. Yes, it supports CSS2 a little better and yes, it supports alpha channel in PNGs. Does any of this matter as far as Joe Sixpack is concerned? Not a bit!
What does matter then? The stuff they're emphasizing - tabbed browsing, design, and integration. You can spend hours explaining what's better to a layman, and in the end they'll use the browser that looks better and is more comfortable. Plus, if they approach security of IE7 with the same rigor we've seen in IIS6 (which I doubt highly, considering such a short product cycle), security will not be a problem.
It is time for Firefox/Mozilla devs to pile on the goodies. Get us some SVG and CSS3, get web devs (at least some of them) to use these cool technologies, and make Microsoft play catch-up again.
Ain't competition grand?
April 30, 2007: First RSS-Related Security Hole Exploit Announced
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
The big thing about tabs is that you can background load with them. e.g. I am browsing a news page and as I go down the page, I ctrl-click all the links that interest me. Then all the stuff you want to see is loaded in tabs in the background. With IE, I don't have to do open in new window and then alt-tab back to the original page before continuing.
You don't really have a choice now do you.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Yes, and what's this I keep hearing about something called RSS?
But even ignoring integration with the OS, what most users will go for is speed. Speed. Loading speed. The speed with which new windows open. Firefox SUCKS there. Even the optimized Moox builds are really not that fast. Compared to IE, FF is so slow it's not even funny.
So since 99% of computer users could care less about "open source" or whether or not the browser passes ACID2, speed is going to be the killer factor for FF. They have an impressive cross-platform product, but Windows users don't care about cross platform either. And that's ultimately FF's achilles heel, I think.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've emailed some AG's that were part of the original antitrust lawsuits about this latest move by MicroSoft.
It seems that it was not enough to use this same method of introducing new methods into html to make NetScape not work with all websites. And it seems that Microsoft is repeating the process with RSS.
The only glimmer of hope here is that iTunes RSS support for podcasts and other web tech may be too entrenched this time to give Microsoft the ability to pull the same trick twice.
People need to talk to their elected officials immediately and point out the similarities here. They also need to pressure web developers to stick to standards and not adopt disruptive changes unless they want to end up in a single browser world again.
Why do I get the feeling that Microsoft will extends RSS in Longhorn to allow for all kinds of new "streaming media" to be fed directly into the OS, a move that will almost certainly only pave for way for a hideous new wave for viruses...
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
Did anyone else wonder why it's is MS unveiling something as important as IE7 multi-tabbed and RSS feeds in a browser at something called "GNOMEdex".
What's Ballmer going to do now? What new slogans is he gonna come up with...
I can't wait...
I hear all of this interesting talk about RSS, the video posted above is especially interesting. The interesting thing I find however, is not what it could do or who did what first, but who this is being worked on for. I don't have a single friend or relative who knows what RSS is or will have any clue what it means when a little colored square that says RSS on it means. Why aren't developers making this concept understandable and functional to PEOPLE, not just programmers and the tech-savvy? What steps would we have to take?
"Also, Microsoft revealed that RSS will be integrated into the heart of Longhorn."
Or into the heart of Internet Explorer which is into the heart of Longhorn.
Alexis 'jeriqo' BRET
slashdot = osnews + 5 hour delay.
Frankly, the default implementation is broken in Windows. Either the feature should be always enabled, or always disabled, not suddenly turn on when certain arbitrary conditions are fulfilled. I realize the behaviour of the grouping can be controlled via registry hacks or via tweak programs, but it's still poor UI design to have these "modes", especially when the computer decides to switch modes on you.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
It seems to me that while MS is finally matching up to its new competitors... this is as it should be, but IE7 is not even supported on all MS platforms/OSs... holy latency batman! It should be news that after everyone else had done something, finally MS decides to do something?
To me, if your supplier is 2-3 years behind its competition, you get a new supplier. The IE7 thing not supporting old OS versions, and the vaporware that is Avalanche just shows how far behind Redmond is....
What is the news here? That MS is behind, or that MS intentd to monopolize any market it can?
I'm simply amazed at how MS makes the news for doing things or claiming they will do things that have been done by others for years?
I don't mean to hate MS simply because, but this is a real reason to not like the Redmond engineers.... geez
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
I use the group similar functions in windows, but I still prefer to keep tabs in Firefox. First, I like to have multiple pages open when I startup firefox each in their own tab (main homepage, slashdot, my two web email accounts.) I also like to have tabs for /. as well, I keep the front page open, A tab for each story I'm following, My user page, to keep track of if someone replies to one of my comments. Plus, as someone mentioned, for comparison shopping, it's invaluable. Plus with tabs I get to see the page name and logo onscreen in the tabs. In grouped windows, all I get to see is how many pages I have open (especially since I autohide my taskbar, which is irrelevant here) My opinion is that, tabs are infinitely better than taskbar groups when it comes to web browsing, and the more web pages open the better tabs become.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
to get some pictures that aren't taken from a skewed perspective? Is this supposed to make me trip out or something?
Also, by this "RSS integrated into the heart of Longhorn" thing, I assume this was a typo and meant to say IE 7? Why would I want RSS being built into the operating system? MS gets enough flak for building IE in, now they're repeating their mistakes?
It'd be interesting to read Longhorn RSS headlines though:
"14 New Critical Updates Available..."
"2 Hacking Attempts Blocked!"
"967 Hacking Attempts Succeeded!"
"Estimated time to next BSOD: 3 hours 16 minutes"
"Windows Piracy is Wrong!"
The only thing that could make it worse is if it used Clippy.
Your explanation is simple and explains a lot -it's almost certainly right.
What better way to sabotage the web as OS and web-apps, than to control the browser? Make it *just* good enough for enough people to accept; but not good enough to make web-apps great - which they definitely could be.
Evil. Brilliant. Very Microsoft.
I don't want to sell you death sticks.
It probably got lost in between all the stuff he posts from Engadget/BoingBoing/Gizmodo about octo-dogs and fire-bots.
It's a fine line: if it's *too* crap for existing web-apps, it will fuel popularity of other browsers...
Or, instead of defending, could MSFT use this offensively, to create a new platform that they can own? I don't think it's possible because of the nature of the web (a very open playing field), but maybe it is?
What if MFST made a browser that was fantastically effective for web-apps - but that was so difficult to use, that MSFT apps were the best on it? The problem for MSFT is they couldn't charge for the platform, and harder to charge for the apps - the Google business model seems to be the way to go.
They say the way companies die is when they fail to adjust to a different revenue model. It's hard. (innovator's dilemma).
This also suggests how to beat MSFT Windows and Office:
...perhaps incompatible with IE, so they can't embrace and extend).
make a great web-apps platform
I don't want to sell you death sticks.
Jesus Christ, they could've not so blatantly ripped off Firefox with the toolbars and Safari RSS for the RSS feeds. It's like they don't even give a shit anymore.
This whole thing reminds me of something - didn't MS want to beat Google on SE market?
I don't see any ways of how MS can directly profit from releasing better browser, but I sure can predict that search tool will be set to Search.Msn, and while it will be possible to change it to something else, those settings are going to be well well hidden.
Dephine URL
The important thing is not that Internet Explorer 7.0 will support RSS but that Microsoft is resuming Internet Explorer development. That has more significant implications for Web users and developers than RSS. Internet Explorer's RSS support is just Microsoft's latest attempt at providing the Web syndication functionality that they tried to introduce and failed to popularize in Internet Explorer 4.0 a decade ago.
In Microsoft's case, I read RSS as Repetitive Strain Syndrome.
I might not be a wit, but at least I am more than half way there.
Should work fine in IE. IE 5.5 and up can handle PNGs, as long as they don't contain any translucent pixels. All pixels must be completely solid or completely transparent, like GIFs (but with 24-bit color). Translucency can be made to work too, but requires a kludge.
PNG support in IE sucks, but it does exist.
..."The technologies of today --- TOMORROW!"
Circumcision is child abuse.
Opera has one as well, as do many other browsers and any browser capable of using the Google toolbar.
/sarcasm
Wow, I simply have to have this great new innovation!
You mean like MSN copying AIM? MS Word copying Wordperfect? Windows Media Player copying WinAmp?
Yes, that happens a lot. Fact of the matter is that everybody's guilty of copying good features from good programs developed elsewhere. Linux copies some pretty good UNIX features, and even expands on them in some cases.
So, take the best of what you need and quit whining. Because cross-pollination happens everywhere in this industry.
Or when you accidentally select open in tabs with a rss feed containing 100+ links (del.icio.us' popular feed). Oh no wait, that wasn't beauty, that was pain. On the plus side, at least my PC didn't crash. I'm sure IE would've.
I think, therefore I am. I think?
Microsoft's innovation is taking beautiful things, and making them butt ugly.
Depends on how you do it. If you press Ctrl-N, it spawns a thread. Click on the IE icon, and it spawns a new process. Depending on your settings and how much free memory you have.
I wish I could find a way to run more than one Firefox process (Damn Adobe plugin).
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I'm not saying what open source is does is wrong nor am I saying it is right; It is beside the point at the moment.
My problem is that the open source community brings up that Microsoft "stole" even though most open source software is "stolen". It is completely hypocritical. You cannot say "Stealing is wrong!" and then turn around and steal yourself.
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
That is my point exactly.
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
So in a year and a half, IE 7 will have a feature (RSS) which Safari has right now in Tiger, and another feature (embedded search bar) which Safari has had since late 2003? Way to go, Microsoft!
Who moved my sig?
Longhorn loses its next generation shell and filesystems, both of which are pretty core OS functionality.
Now they make up for it by adding RSS to their browser? At this rate Longhorn isn't going to be much more than Windows XP plus IE 7 (and yet still delivered late?). And IE hardly counts as OS functionality.
Maybe if they spent their time building an operating system, and let application developers build the applications for it, they'd be able to build an OS that has some really innovative technologies in it. Instead they spend all this time trying to "own the web", as well as compete with 3rd party software vendors like Adobe.
From a technology perspective, I think this strategy sucks. Time will tell whether this is a good business strategy or not.
looks like someone made something in photoshop, then viewed it in Mozilla, and then took a picture of hte screen.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
A virus that exploits a critical flaw in MS-RSS causes world wide security panic. Patch due to be released next Tuesday.
That's the best funny I could come up with. Need sleep now.
Mod me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
You're quite right on that. Tons of Firefox extensions exist only to add features that take up double the memory and are half the quickness of things that Opera has built in.
And Opera is rather mindbogglingly extensible.. it'd be nice if it were all documented somewhere. (but then there's Firefox's documentation... Use the Source, Luke)
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
that's crazy. You must have an insane amount of resources. My 128mb system can barely handle having 4-5 documents open in Firefox without being totally choked off. (On the other hand, I can open 95 documents in Opera, and still be fairly useful...)
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Microsoft is also getting excited about XML-based GUIs, database file systems, "managed code", desktop search, garbage collection, etc., all ideas that have been around for a long time. The company behaves like a smart computer science freshman, who thinks that because he is thinking one week ahead of his intro CS class, he is inventing things nobody else ever thought of. And, like a freshman, they lack the taste to separate the good from the bad ideas.
Why is this event called "Gnomedex"? I find it rather disturbing that Microsoft has started sponsoring and (in effect) marketing under the Gnome name. How did this happen? Isn't Gnome protected by a trademark?
IE is showing its new browser of like it was this huge new fantastic thing!
/. keeps yelling that they stole from FF or Safari! TABS! INTEGRATED RSS!! OMG OMG!
Everyone and his mothers cousin on
Peronaly I discovered Opera five years ago, complete with tabs and everything. Thats when I stopped worrying about browsers. So when FF came with tabs and everybody was extatic I thought "Umm...ive been using this for some years now...."
Opera to the people!
When in danger, whewn in doubt! Run in circles, scream and shout!
Those screenshots looks increasingly like Gnome and Firefox. So, I guess it's called "Gnomedex" because Microsoft is cloning the Gnome desktop for their next release of Windows?
Now your spyware and Browser Helper Objects can automatically keep themselves up to date based on RSS feeds!
if you want people to think you know what you are talking about, just put ".com" at the end of everything you say.com
Is it me? Or, does anyone else think the icons from the screenshot of IE7 looks alot like KDE Icons?
Look at the home icon - stock KDE imho.
Seems M$ is doing to Linux what they did with Apple. Apple came out with something cool - M$ ripped it of, branded it - and will swear up and down that it's their own "original" idea - hmmm! I smell another patent - something obscure, like a icon rendering protocol or two. lol.
Widgets like MacOS and a browser bar like Firefox. Thank god we have Microsoft to bring us such innovation.
When your browser crashes, and you open it again, if it uses tabs it can open all your pages again. It's as if it never went away. You can't do that with IE.
So IE7's RSS support looks virtually identical to Safari's RSS support
Why am I not surprised?
i love opera, i recommend it to everyone, but i myself run NetCaptor and i hate when it doesnt get the recognition it deserves. most of the amazing features in opera were developed by NetCaptor first (tabbed browsing being the most significant)
Phillip
Actually, tabbed browsing was first appeared in Booklink's InternetWorks.
I am not talking to the release date of Longhorn. I am talking on the performance of applications on Longhorn.
I am working on a computational intensive problem. With linux I can install ONLY the functions I need. I can even stop and uninstall all server to free memory and diskspace and make my program run faster.
I really dont want to wait for my program fighting for getting more resources against some funny kernel extension like web access and RSS, which cannot be stopped.
Maybe Microsoft have no interest on scientific arena, but, as the OS getting
more bulky and inflexable, I serious doubt if Windows platform can survive apart from desktop and gamming.
I think it looks a lot more like Safari.
IE7: http://www.flexbeta.net/gsurface/ie7/ie72.jpg
Safari: http://www.unsanity.org/rosyna/imgs/safarirss.png
Pretty much identical. Actually looks like MS is trying to figure out how to organize the right area so it doesn't look like such a blatant ripoff.
"Don't hold Microsoft to a double-standard."
I find it funny that everybody talks about switching to Mozilla/Firefox because of things IE doesn't support, but when MS finally gets around to updating IE it's bitch bitch bitch.
The Slashdot group-think has a grudge against Microsoft. That, in and of itself, I don't have a problem with. We're all human. We all have our opinions. (I certainly shouldn't be casting any stones.) But what really irks me is that nobody is willing to admit it. All these "It's stupid because it comes from Microsoft" rants are paraded around with a flag of 'Insightful', 'Informative', and 'Intesting'. Microsoft's proud of its work, that's twisted into false hype citing other browsers that have that functionality. (Never mind that only about 10 million or so people on the net are using browsers with that functionality and that MS is introducing it into a much broader market.) Microsoft adds new features with a few additions of their own, that's twisted into predictions of insecurity and buggery. (Possible, but I'm talking elaborate works of fiction here.) Microsoft doesn't announce a particular feature or adherence to a standard (not to be confused announcing that it WON'T do either), it's twisted into more Microsoft arrogance and some Dr. Evil'ish plot to monopolize the internet.
It's very difficult to take any story about Microsoft here seriously. They're not 'news for nerds', they're pitchfork-waving parties. Hardly more respectable than an epic Babylon 5 vs. Star Trek debate.
I expect this comment to be modded down. Fine, no prob. Please, at least do me the courtesy of reflecting on some of the behaviour around here and attempt to see where I'm coming from. I'm not pro-Microsoft, I'm anti-hypocrite.
"Derp de derp."
RSS feeds, search within the browser, tabs? Why don't they just start bundling Firefox with Longhorn? :)
Honestly, why bother coming out with a new product when your product does nothing new? More importantly what reason would Firefox users have to switch back to IE? A lot of people I've worked with have ditched IE completely mostly because they cannot control what software is installed into the browser and they also cannot use software that requires the amount of maintenance that you would expect only in caring for a newborn baby.
Longhorn is really doing nothing that isn't available to users of W2K other than use more memory, and disk. When is the OS doing it's job well enough than most people are spending time improving other things? These are questions I ask when purchasing things and I am sure these are things others are thinking about as well.
People are much more savvy about computing than they were a few years and just telling them they need a new OS without there being a real need for one may send a clear message to Microsoft, one that they aren't going to like and one their stockholders REALLY won't care for either.
It all comes down to a simple point. Do I really need "Longhorn" or do you simply just think I need it? Currently, it doesn't do a damn thing that W2K, WinXP or even Linux couldn't do _right now_.
So why bother? Most people aren't doing high performance computing, they don't need to squeek an extra 32 bits out of their 64 bit cpu. Even then, Windows Bloatware running on at 64 native will probably still run like Win95 on a 386. There just isn't really a point now is there?
- Mindmaster
"Microsoft is also excited to introduce the magic RSS button, which disappears when clicked."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8004316/
r ce_Nightly%20News&i=b94552bd-146d-4b44-8200-930e52 1ee6c5&rq=32&rf=
http://video.msn.com/video/req/req.aspx?t=1&p=Sou
At appears on OS X Tiger. Yes, the OS they kind of support, e.g. there is a official media player.
As I have Omniweb (guys THEY are the ones invented RSS in browser), I kinda smiled and changed identity for MSNBC to Netscape 4.8 (windows), guess what? No!
It wants IE 6 on Windows and actually ONLY compatible with it.
So, RSS board or anything, time for an urgent meeting and declaration. Ask for declaration from them. That company can do ANYTHING, don't trust to RSS'es openness.
They would ship it with total standard compliant RSS, keep a hole open on purpose and allow it to be haxored by virus/spyware than they would have a excellent excuse of raping the RFC.
BTW , semi OT about windows media player. Just imagine the company you "hate" , aka Real networks really went out of business. Just think about it.
How do you integrate RSS into the heart of your OS?
Or more importantly, why?
'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
Konqueror has the 'integrated search bar' too ya know...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Its not a post against Apple or Safari. Just look at that movie:
l ery/movies/07_rss.html (quicktime embedded of course)
/ newsfeed.png
http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/gal
And this is screenshot
http://www.omnigroup.com/images/images-5/features
What Apple did is, to take that feauture and really extend it, making a OS framework level RSS renderer (or whatever) that any coder, newbie, dashboard guy can use.
Also Omniweb is a professionally coded, shareware browser, Safari is "free". Omni group is a legendary NeXT company and they don't tell anything against it. Lots of other developers use their documented frameworks which are free (for non pro use I guess)
I wrote all above since its hugely different from Konfabulator thing, against misunderstanding. I still think Apple owes a "thank you" to those guys, as an Apple owner.
What Microsoft does is, literally STEALING or, more politely "COPYING". I know Apple kinda jokes about Longhorn and believe Apple and MS does not "hate" each other but at least on RSS part, Microsoft stole it without shame.
Also don't forget Apple does whatever they can to help opensource.
Yes, that computer has 1 GB of ram. And yet, I still get the "you are low on memory" message when I am testing my programs.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
When it is officially released, they're going to call it Windows Me 2... which will of course be pronounced "Windows, Me too!"
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Microsoft didn't get it: the reason Firefox is so damn good is that it's a better browser than IE. I think MS marketing looked at the eyecandy (search box, tabs, Live Bookmarks) and thought that this FireFox was more like some of the customized versions of IE that are out there. They totally missed out the power that Gecko, XUL and the amazingly simple extension system bring.
Firefox renders correctly, it's simple to use and extensions are just plain fun and useful. The user has more control and is literally safer than with IE. Sure there are exploits found, but they are generally fixed quickly and users are alerted to upgrade.
Then there's that whole extensible user interface...
-- $G
Tons of Firefox extensions exist only to add features that take up double the memory and are half the quickness of things that Opera has built in.
;)
Double the memory, half the speed, and an infinitely lower price.
People don't use Firefox instead of Opera because it's better. They use it because it's free. And no, as far as most people are concerned, adware != free.
Hey, if Opera wants to waste their money acting as a professional browser research wing for Mozilla, well, I'm not complaining...
If you look at Firefox, the Maxthon and Avant Browser shell programs for Internet Explorer, and now Internet Explorer 7.0, they all share one thing in common: they all borrowed Opera's combination of address and search bars at the top of the browser.
... they really mean screenshots! When was the last time you saw a screenshot that was literally a digital photograph of someone's monitor? :-)
so what features aren't planned for longhorn?
--- Don't ever trust a woman until she's dead- B.B. King
Yes, but Firefox popularized it. Opera is a good browser, but it isn't as popular as Firefox.
Ben
"Ya know Beavis, you can't polish a terd."
The most difficult part of creating software is finding the bugs. The most difficult part of extending a piece of software is incorporating all of the things that people wanted without creating new bugs. With Microsofts extensive experience with extending software they might be able to do it correctly this time.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is smart. By delaying the release of both Longhorn and IE7 they'e been able to incorperate technology that we've all been using for months or a year. What it will give them is time to bastardize it, which they will no doubt do. This is why stories like this are somewhat important, so other companies can have some idea of what they are up to and not be blindsided by M$ "innovation."
Frankly, I give about as much of a $hit about Longhorn as I do my next defication and less about IE7. What's sad is people will lap this up like thirsty dogs when it's released.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I see that Internet Explorer is slowly catching up to other browsers such as Firefox and Opera. The problem is that I'm using Firefox now, and will continue to use it for the next year at least. And then Microsoft is going to release their new browser after I've used Firefox for (at that time it will be) two years. I won't see any reason to switch after using a browser with the same features for that long.
INACTIVE ACCOUNT
And this is slashdot, when did intelligent discourse become a requirement for posting, I've always considered slashdot a humor site.
Cheers
Storm
I'd need better screenshots to really say, but the new IE looks a hell of a lot like Safari, right down to the RSS interface. The window style looks like a combination of iTunes for Windows and Safari. And why the hell is the menubar below the tab bar?
... in 5 days is activate "Show tabs all the time" and "Open in background in a new tab upon middle click" by default in IE 7.
Because the Mozilla / Firefox people are to slowpoky/conservative to do this, MS has a chance here.
But with the default settings of Outlook being nearly even more crappy than outlook itself I actually don't expect them to be that innovative.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Microsoft has had a top-right search bar (for help) in Office for a while now. Visual Studio has been capable of tabbed browsing (why would a dev tool have this?) for a while too. Perhaps the IE team is actually stealing ideas from the Office and Visual Studio teams!
innovation - I can't believe they are coming out with this - I am so glad I am going to switch today.
oh wait it's not out yet - guess I have to stick firefox and use their rss feeds - hey wait why was switching in the first place - Oh ya I remember I was hoping they would also have drm that only the riaa would be proud of.
If you say so. Tabs aren't "overhyped". They're just highly-praised. There's a big difference. See, if you sit someone down at a computer with a browser that does tabbed browsing and don't say a word to them, they will quickly become enamoured with the utility of them and eventually come to hate browsing without them. No hyping. No brain-washing. No shoving it in their face. Just give them a browser that does it.
.MAC accounts, .xxx/.info/.biz/.home TLD and podcasting for starters.
:)
Maybe windows are great for simple minds, but I tend to have a good dozen tabs open for work stuff, another dozen for my personal stuff (server/site/webmail/etc) and maybe a half dozen for various surfings throughout the day. Would I rather have one or two windows with a couple dozen tabs total? Or would I rather have 30 windows open?
I guess when you write code, you have a seperate IDE open for every file you're working on. And when you're using your email, you just have 1500 windows open instead of folders to hold your mail into some sort of cohesive space. And when you are chatting, you have 12 windows open to chat to 12 different people.
Tabs are merely the progression of ordered working spaces that you have and use (and always have) in every other environment and aspect of computing and surfing before, except now it's in the browser.
The first time I heard about tabbed browsing, I didn't even have to think about it or try it or listen to hype. I just saw a small screenshot and my brain said "Oh, yeah. Duh - that makes so much sense!".
Anyway, I wasn't bemoaning JWZ. I don't dislike the guy and have actually started visiting his site since he started covering Apple stuff the same week I bought my new 17" Powerbook and my 30" ACD. I just think that saying tabs are the worst idea ever (or whatever) is really absurd. The fact that so many people (on every browser platform) use them and wouldn't trade them for anything speaks to their functionality.
Oh. I can think of far more over-hyped things that are far bigger pieces of crap. Flickr, Livejournal, Blogging, cell phones
Ooh. Actually, this would make a great Ask Slashdot. I'd like to see what everyone lists as the most overhyped items of the last year or so is.
we sure do pay a lot of attention to Microsoft... As a matter of fact, I'm pretty excited to see this.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
Load time isn't just dependant on RAM and CPU speed. The bottleneck is the disk! I would contend that an IDE machine with 1GHz/256MB/RAID-1 or RAID-0 will outperform a 2GHz/512MB/single drive system, as far as boot and load times are concerned. Especially if we are using 7,200rpm drives.
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
compare the text of my reply to the parent. It's a joke.
Phillip
In real environment that kind of winblows platform would be nearly unusable.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
yes, I'm aware of the shortcut keys, but few non-weenies use them [but what non-weenie uses a terminal, anyway?
The reason Windows owners do not use shortcuts a lot of the time is because they don't work everywhere, so they learn quickly they cannot rely on them - I find it funny that Ctrl+Insert and Shift+Insert work more often than Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V on Windows (like dialog boxes)!!! People get REAL excited when I tell them about the other keys that mostly work - even a lot of non-weenies.
I would say a majority of Mac users actually use the copy keys because they are more likley to work. In fact I can't think of a single Mac user I know who does not use them, including a mix of non-weenies - one of the great myths is that only geeks prefer keyboard shortcuts, that simply is not the case. If there is a faster way to get something done most people are plenty happy to take advantage of it when the find out.
Personally I dislike menus in Windows because even if they are closer, it's just easier to flick the mouse to the top of the screen instead of an exact location on a window.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
porn feeds?
this is the same old internet
-judging another only defines yourself
....dude.... it's.... FIREFOX. Look at it! It's Firefox for poor people and Bill Gates worshippers! Oh my God! LOLlerskates! Somebody's breaking some type of patent... or copyright.... or something! And it's got a worse looking interface than IE 5 for the Mac! AAAAAAHHHHH!
Monkeys... own..... ASCII Slashdot: |/.|
What other browsers (non-IE) do / have done don't matter to the unwashed masses of internet abusers.
And yes, I am an Opera fan.
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
Eh, people just want ie to piss off at the moment, if ms hadn't dragged their feet for so long on improving the browser it wouldn't have gotten to the point where there's all this bad blood towards it and you wouldn't be getting these rants.
Yes, people want ie to support standards, but only if it feels the need to annoy people by continuing to exist.
Also i think you are understating what their lack of adherance to standards means to a lot of people and also technologies. There's a lot of stuff web devs just can't do exclusively because ie continues to exist and suck. I don't think you have to 'twist' that one too hard to make it look bad.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
Okay, with only two extensions installed (adblock and noscript), one Firefox window open with 18 tabs takes up a third of the memory (~69MB) that my Opera window with 7 tabs does (~207MB). So I guess I could afford to install a few more memory-hogging extensions then.