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ESR Gets Job Offer From Microsoft
epsalon writes "Eric S. Raymond, the well known Open Source Evangelist, recently received a job offer from Microsoft, that he strongly refused. Is this another attempt to lure Open Source figures or just ignorance?" From his post: "I called [the Microsoft HR rep], who told me my name had been passed to him by his research team. I indicated to him that I thought somebody was probably having a little joke at his expense, and promised him an email reply."
Also, RMS got a boob job and Ben Collins had his hair cut. Front page news at 11.
Is slashdot a celebrity gossip site for geeks now or something?
ESR: I can't do that?
MS: Can't handle the isolation?
ESR: No, I have to sound off every now and then or people will forget about me!
MS: Well... that's what were actually shooting for.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Since when is a request for an interview a "job offer"?
"It's funny. Laugh" should have been at the top of the totem pole.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
Tell us how you really feel!
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
How terrible it has been for them, to have this guy as their worst nightmare.
What a pompous ass.
sulli
RTFJ.
[grin] Would *you* dine with the devil ?
Given that I'm constantly being told how bad the IT job-market is, I suspect most would... Now Eric's made a chunk of change out of being an OS advocate (I think it was Redhat that gave him a load of shares), but I'm sure MS is in the position to offer seriously tempting offers to just about anyone. Kudos to him for sticking by his principles...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
His page :
http://www.catb.org/~esr/
Pride goeth before a fall. The classy thing to do would be to thank the person (whose v- address signifies that they're a vendor, in this case a headhunter) and decline politely, then make your plans to piss on Gates's grave or whatever floats your boat.
1) Your office filetypes are made public
2) Your publicises the OS system server calls.
3) Stop funding biased reports.
4) Hey, while your at it: open-source Windows OS (all of them)...
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
Not to burst ESR's bubble, but it's not a job offer. It's simply a Microsoft recruiting vendor trolling for people who might be interested.
I get a similar e-mail every few months.
That this was a joke someone at Microsoft was playing on the "new guy". I'd hate to think there's actually someone there that could be that clueless.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
Not surprising, really... With all the good people Microsoft's losing to Google, someone's got to pick up the slack.
...Richard Stallman had a meeting with William Gates on how to make bug-free security-hardened software. The promising results of the encounter are yet to be announced.
how about asking bill to join the openoffice team?
George Bush offers Michael Moore a cabinet position. Hilary Clinton becomes spokeswoman for Rockstar Games. Tipper Gore and Dee Snider release a duet album.
Hire their leaders.
I know nothing
It's a four word job description. "Shut the heck up."
I remeber this episode! ESR takes the job after Microsft offers to give ESR's son a "real life" and wipe everyone's memory.
The key difference between a Programmer and a Senior Programmer is that one of them is Mexican.
I didn't see a job offer, just a request for an interview.
I would think esr would know the difference.
On the day *I* go to work for Microsoft, faint oinking sounds will be heard from far overhead, the moon will not merely turn blue but develop polkadots, and hell will freeze over so solid the brimstone will go superconductive.
Apparently he was also going to put in "and Slashdot begins using CSS", but took it out at the last minute.
Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
It may not be a joke on the part of MS. Think about it, how do you shut down the threat of Open Source? Starve it of resources. Now what are the resources? The people who are like ESR. Put it very bluntly this is war and MS is determined to deny the enemy (Linux) the materials (people) to wage war.
Panic now, beat the rush!
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
I love the "How far will you go?" quote in the letter. Of course Eric's response is "Not THAT far!"
Ever dance with the devil...?
}#q NO CARRIER
talk about tooting your own horn, it seems ESR really has a very active imagination if he sees himself as MS's worst nightmare
"I'd thank you for your offer of employment at Microsoft, except that it indicates that either you or your research team (or both) couldn't get a clue if it were pounded into you with baseball bats. What were you going to do with the rest of your afternoon, offer jobs to Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds?"
Right, because we all know ESR is on the same level with those two guys because he's responsible for uh... What exactly did he do?
Obligatory "Everboby loves Eric Raymond": http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them- the-code
Don't get me wrong, I dislike ESR as much as the next guy, but even I have to admit his response is hilarious.
I really wish ESR would stop claiming to speak for the Open Source community if he is going to behave in this fashion.
RMS, while a bit self-admittedly silly at times, at least conducts himself in a more courteous and polite fashion.
This is but one of the many non-idealogical reasons that I prefer to think of myself in the Free Software Community, rather than the Open Source Community.
you came off like a professional and stable person. thank goodness you are taking it upon yourself to represent the OS movement. certainly many other professional people will want to join you.
This
OH, your OpenSource Evangelist; We made a mistake...We thought OSS was OpenServer...As in...Oh, you know SCO? uh-huh...uh-huh...Yes well we think that SCO are a mature and...Yes, uh-huh...Yes I know that they...uh-huh...And that we gave them...uh-huh...Ok, so you don't want to work for MS then...Can I ask why you why?....
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
ESR's only valid response should have been to accept an interview and show up roaring drunk.
Look at his email. He takes credit for an entire movement? Cut me a break. His cathedral and bazaar paper was a bunch of pot smoking nonsense. What a blow hard. What did he write that was so amazing or complicated? His web site is all "I contributed to, was in a meeting with..."
The guy is a total fraud.
This is my sig.
This happened to me recently as well. I am not as well known as ESR in general linux circles, but those of you who mess around with audio software on Linux probably know me as the author of both JACK and Ardour. MS called me 10 days ago about a job, and emailed me again yesterday. The caller indicated that he knew all about my work on linux audio, and my feelings about MS, but assured me that "MS was changing". I was sent a URL for an PR/newswire "article" suggesting that MS was moving "toward open source".
Like ESR, I indicated to them that Microsoft was a company that I could never consider working for, under any circumstances whatsoever.
I'm behind a filtering proxy and can't find a google cache... could someone post the text of the article please?
..that an email from a M$ recruiter has a link to maps.yahoo.com ?
...> e +Microsoft+Way&csz=Re dmond%2C+WA+98052&country=us>
Best regards, Mike
http://members.microsoft.com/careers/default.mspx
How far will you go?
Mike Walters
CST Senior Recruiter
Microsoft
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=On
My wife, upon hearing of this, suggested that if something like this could happen maybe I haven't made enough trouble for Microsoft lately, and I'm slipping off their radar. She might have a point...
Come on, ESR is pretty much off everyone's radar at the moment and has been for some time. The problem is that he doesn't DO anything much - as opposed to RMS and Linus who are of continuing significance. Seriously, aside from posting about gun rights and racial IQ differences on his blog, what does ESR get up to these days that anyone really cares about?
Whoever put Microsoft HR up to this, I'd certainly say he has one hell of a sense of humor. An evilly twisted one, that is.
Lurker 312-231
A v- email address at microsoft means that you are not a full time employee, but are a contract worker.
If you can't beat 'em, get 'em off the street.
Didn't they just hire a Gentoo guy? They probably stuck him in a windowless office, had him sign an NDA, and made research the vocal ululating of East Guinea tribesman for the next 12 months.
Seriously, Microsoft hires all this brain power and then you never see any of it show up in the products, what other conclusion can you draw????
(Okay, my point is valid, but yes I give ESR WAY too much credit and/or delusions of relevancy. If MS hired ESR, it actually wouldn't make any difference about anything.)
[horrific pic warning]
Really? This is who we have evangalizing for us? I quit...
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
"You can learn more about our vision for the New World of Work at"
Did anybody else skim through that at read "New World Order"?
Did anyone else notice that the guy who sent the email linked to the Yahoo! maps service instead of the Google one, in his sig?
I just thought that was sort of interesting.
It really makes me wonder if the open source community really likes being represented by someone who, not for the first time, makes threats of violence towards others.
In my opinion, he should be told that he doesn't represent anyone, his vague claims of leadership of the "open source community" are without merit and, frankly, he conducts himself in a manner which suggests he should get himself some professional medical help.
I think I got a similiar response when I asked a woman for sex.
Since Google is taking Microsoft employees, Microsoft is trying to beat them to the punch!
First, a critique of his response:
He should have politely informed them who he is, his significance to the Open Source and Free Software movements and flatly refused.
Instead he did so, but in terms of invoking satan, calling them clueless, conjuring the childish image of him "pissing on MS' grave" among other things.
There are ways to tell someone to "go to hell" without actually saying the words. All ESR did here was embarass himself and, to some degree, the very movement he cares about. Because if anyone ever wanted proof that this movement is made up of people who are childish... he's provided it to them.
Second, a critique of what he thinks of himeself:
Yes, he wrote, the Cathedral and the Bazaar. BUT only about 5-7 years AFTER RMS had already been doing Free Software. Arguably much of the "theory" ESR claims for himself was borrowed from RMS.
Later, GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
The email left Microsoft's recuiter's link http://www.appointmentquest.com/provider/201022492 7
I signed up for an appointment with Leslie O'Connor. Hope she is a hottie.
The recruiter is just doing his job. Why abuse the guy?
As big as Raymond thinks that he is, bullshitting with IBM execs and "maintaining" the jargon file doesn't make you a B-list celebrity.
I've always found the the way that people treat waiters, clerical staff, etc reveals alot about that person's character. Raymond's self-aggrandizing, insulting and borderline abusive reply says nearly all that needs to be said about him.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Maybe Gates needed an acolyte for his cathedral.
Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
Actually, it looks like the guy just got a form letter from an HR rep, which he then responded to like a complete asshole.
Yeah, OK, you don't like Microsoft. We get it. That wasn't a reason to attack and insult an HR rep that was clearly the butt of a joke.
In the interview offer letter to ESR, M$ was kind enough to include a link to their HR schedule. Feel free to log in and schedule yourself and interview with M$, or just chat with a recruiter!
2 7
http://www.appointmentquest.com/provider/20102249
-Valiss
Nobody should hold it against ESR that he's such an asshole. He works so hard at it, he's at least deserving of it.
ESR got an unsolicited form letter from a recruiting vendor doing the email equivalent of cold-calling -- otherwise known as "Spamming".
/. attention, but please. Spare us.
Of course, his response was humorous, and possibly therefore worthy of
I would rather have seen an "unsubscribe" reply... with a followup in case he gets another email from the vendor.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Why would MS offer a job to Equivilent Series Resistance? You can get that from any capacitor on the market for fractions of a penny!
And what kind of sick geek of a parent would name thier kid Root Mean Square?
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Below is the set of emails of when MS tried to recruit me. Read from bottom up since that's how the emails were actually sent.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Hunt
To: 'Mauricio '
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
Thank you for the quick reply. I respect an individual that sticks to
their morals. Take care.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mauricio [mailto:mauricio@xxxx.com%5D
> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 1:51 PM
> To: James Hunt
> Subject: Re: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
>
>
> James
>
> Thank you for taking the time to look at my resume and to send me the
> description for this job. Unfortunately, being an advocate of open source,
> it would be against my morals to work for the Anti-Christ. But I do
> appreciate you having taken the time to email me.
>
> Regards,
> Mauricio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Hunt
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:15 PM
> Subject: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
>
>
> > Hi Mauricio,
> >
> > I am interested in your background for our full-time UNIX/Solaris sys.
> admin
> > position at Mircosoft.
> >
> > This position is within the Network Operations Center of our WebTV
> division
> > which is a 100% Solaris shop, supporting more than 1 million
subscribers.
> > We are located at the brand new Microsoft Silicon Valley Campus in
> Mountain
> > View, along with several other Microsoft divisions (5 buildings).
> >
> > If you are interested, I would like to set up a time for us to speak via
> > phone. Simply reply to this message or call me at (650) 693 3542.
> >
> > I have also attached the job description. >
> >
> > Kindest Regards,
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > James Hunt
> > Microsoft - WebTV
> > Technical Recruiter
> > http://www.webtv.com/
> > http://www.microsoft.com/
---
Film at 11!
I'm not surprised to see such a response from ESR. I would at least want to discuss how much M$ is willing to pay. Being paid an astronomical sum to subvert your enemy from the inside would strike me as having significant job satisfaction potential.
I didn't realize Microsoft was in the habit of hiring openly racist people. ESR's ego about his hyperintelligence seems unjustified given the fact that he subscribes so wholeheartedly to the failed theories of "The Bell Curve". It's kind of sad that someone supposedly so smart lets his personal desire to be more uber than other races shine through, rather than to try and conquer his prejudice. I've never been a fan of Microsoft, but I did at least expect them to have more integrity in their hiring practices.
Eric has smart in spades, but his lack of tact and grace hurts the very Open Source movement he supports.
Crow T. Trollbot
The sound Ballmer makes as he flying ninja-kicks Mike Walters (the hapless recruiter who tried to recruit ESR) in the nuts.
And then he throws a chair on the guy, once he's down.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Here is a small digest of the reply to Microsoft:
"WHAT? You don't know me? Why, I am famous. Yes I am so, so famous! You must be an idiot if you don't know my name! Why I am your worse nightmare! I said that in a very famous online flame war! I am the famous open source guy! I am up there with Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds. You have heard of them, but you never head of me? But I am famous! Your an idiot if you don't know who I am!"
What a pompous ass!
Can't we get some open source advocates with charisma? Maybe we could all pitch in and hire an out of work TV actor to be our open source spokesperson, instead of the usual juvenile socially disaffected geeks.
Microsoft says Dr. Kai-Fu Lee shouldn't go to work for Google, in part, because the Dr. has knowledge of Microsoft's proprietary recruiting strategies.
Maybe they mean that, after working at Microsoft, he knows what _not_ to do.
S. Jobs
L. Page
S. Brin
L. Ellison
D. Zamos (lesser known but if you digg you'll find him)
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Email FROM Microsoft:
2 7> online to schedule a convenient time for me to contact you. You can learn more about our vision for the New World of Work at http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/execmail> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/execmail.
:-(
From: "Mike Walters (Search Wizards)" v-mikewa@microsoft.com
To: esr@thyrsus.com
Eric,
I am a member of the Microsoft Central Sourcing Team. Microsoft is seeking world class engineers to help create products that help people and businesses throughout the world realize their full potential.
Your name and contact info was brought to my attention as someone who could potentially be a contributor at Microsoft. I would love an opportunity to speak with you in detail about your interest in a career at Microsoft, along with your experience, background and qualifications. I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have and can also provide you with any information I have available in regard to the positions and work life at Microsoft.
Please take a moment to visit My Calendar http://www.appointmentquest.com/provider/20102249
Additionally, if you are aware of any current or previous colleagues who might also be interested in opportunities at Microsoft, I would be happy to speak with them as well. Referrals are always welcome, and are greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance and I look forward to an opportunity to speak to you in the near future
Best regards,
Mike Walters
CST Senior Recruiter
Microsoft
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
The reply email:
To: "Mike Walters (Search Wizards)"
From: esr@thyrsus.com
I'd thank you for your offer of employment at Microsoft, except that it indicates that either you or your research team (or both) couldn't get a clue if it were pounded into you with baseball bats. What were you going to do with the rest of your afternoon, offer jobs to Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds? Or were you going to stick to something easier, like talking Pope Benedict into presiding at a Satanist orgy?
If you had bothered to do five seconds of background checking, you might have discovered that I am the guy who responded to Craig Mundie's "Who are you?" with "I'm your worst nightmare", and that I've in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare since about 1997. You've maybe heard about this "open source" thing? You get one guess who wrote most of the theory and propaganda for it and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in. But don't think I'm trying to destroy your company. Oh, no; I'd be just as determined to do in any other proprietary-software monopoly, and the community I helped found is well on its way to accomplishing that goal.
On the day *I* go to work for Microsoft, faint oinking sounds will be heard from far overhead, the moon will not merely turn blue but develop polkadots, and hell will freeze over so solid the brimstone will go superconductive.
But I must thank you for dropping a good joke on my afternoon. On that hopefully not too far distant day that I piss on Microsoft's grave, I sincerely hope none of it will splash on you.
Cordially yours,
Eric S. Raymond
Hes kinda rude to the poor guy isnt he?
1. Hire person you don't like.
2. Sneak egregious non-compete clause into hiring agreement.
3. Get hiring agreement signed.
4. Fire person.
5. Wait until they go back to working for an open-source company making even the slightest bit of income.
6. Sue everyone involved.
7. Profit!
8. Dismantle the company, you know, just for kicks.
I think everyone with a resume on the web gets the M$ invitation to talk an HR guy.
This is my story: http://www.josesandoval.com/2005/01/penskee-mater
And this was part of the templated email I received:
- ...number of hiring managers in the Office SharePoint Server, Windows Search, Content Management Server and Project Management Server teams [Had seen my resume and that] one, or as many as all, of these teams and their hiring managers have expressed an interest in contacting you [me] regarding positions at Microsoft that might map well to your experience and qualifications.
A bit presumptuous, no? And very harsh to the HR dude. Just don't hurt yourself on the way down from your self erected pedestalBTW, I don't know who Eric is...So there...
Esta es una firma en Espanol.
Google did the same thing when it hired away the top gun at Microsoft to run the new Google research center in China.
from esr's response it sounds like he and ballmer would get along nicely.
Is this what the e-mail looked like to which you said "yes"?
I would not have believed my respect for you could diminish, but it has. Pathetic.
I thought he was super-rich off VA systems stock.
As I've seen in my own job hunt, and as many of my friends can also testify who are seeking employment right now - there is a lot of arrogance on the part of *employers* too!
It's fine to preach about practicing "professionalism" in a job search, but there's also something to be said for the individual who isn't afraid to "tell it like it is" when a proespective employer demands far too much or illustrates utter cluelessness.
EG. A lady I know was trying to get hired on at a high-end furniture store in town. She was originally seeking a position in commission-based sales, because it appeared the potential was there to earn the type of money she needs to take care of her family. (She's divorced with 3 kids and has to make house payments, a car payment, etc. etc. And she's only getting child support payments sporadically - and when they come, they don't nearly cover the basic bills.) Despite explaining her situation during the interview, the manager she interviewed with seemed to conclude that with her education and background, she'd be a better fit for one of their accounting positions. Fine, except it only paid about $9/hr.! Nobody would even consider discussing the sales openings with her after that, and it just fell on deaf ears that $9/hr. wasn't going to cut it....
(And don't forget, this is a business that sells one of the most marked-up items around... expensive furniture. On average, everything they sell goes for well over 200% of cost, and the store moves a lot of product too!)
She *could* have just politely declined the offer and moved on, but instead, she ripped into the guy about it. I say good for her! Maybe... just maybe, they'll give some more thought to the wisdom of expecting to get good candidates with 4 year college degrees to oversee all of their income and expenses, while paying them far LESS than any of the sales staff makes. Maybe they'll wake up a bit and realize that it takes a little more than some $9/hr. job to raise a family on.
Nothing's going to change when everyone just smiles and pretends that they're ever so happy to be given the opportunity to get bent over and screwed with a crappy job offer.
First, it aint no job offer.
What is is, is an opportunity to join the smelly ranks of recent graduates wearing the first suit they ever owned to come up to the campus and embarass themselves as they work through our list of silly questions.
If anyone wants to know why Microsoft aint what it used to be, you can start right there in HR. Sometimes is just sucks to be us.
This story is more exciting then Britney Spears pregnancy.
All of you need to get a life. I really don't understand the Linux vs. Microsoft band wagon wannabe's anymore. Windows is still the most dominant OS in the known universe. And speaking as an end-user, Linux is still where it was 5 years ago as far as being Desktop friendly.
Instead of writing clever replies, how about writing some clever (read: innovative) code? That way newbies like me can load up Linux on a new Dell and see what all the fuss is about. As it stands right now, I can't get past XCONFIG.
That the problem with geeks... they are, no doubt, brilliant. But unless your a mind reader, the rest of the world has no clue as to why.
Get to work.
Steve Ballmer and Eric Raymond have the exact same personality.
Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me.
Eric should go work for Microsoft. He fits right in.
This is my sig.
Dear Gabriel,
The search firm of Avarice & Gluttony tells me that you may have grown weary of tooting your current employer's horn.
Be advised that we have a corner office ready and waiting (...although the air-conditioning's on the fritz).
Call me.
-Lucifer
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
Did anybody notice that the HR recruiter wasn't using Microsoft software to post appointments? I checked out the site, and it's a 3rd party online scheduling software...I would think MS would want their people using their CRM or some kind of MS product to do scheduling.
Microsoft Bob
Clippy
Outlook Express
Why would you want to make ESR more qualified to create products like those?
I'd rather work for Microsoft than have anything to do with someone who writes an e-mail like that and is proud of himself after doing so.
The more you know, the less you understand.
Methinks that over-reaches just a little. Apart from the fact that "propaganda" is a poor choice of word - although it may describe ESR's output - open source pioneers were working effectively in principle long before ESR was out of diapers.
Despite ESR's strenuous self-promotion, the fact is that RMS was of course principally responsible for what we know as open source philosophy and its legal framework. ESR is only one of the slightly loopy hangers-on... valuable, but as is usually the case, in inverse proportion to his ego.
And then there is the Second Act, in which he plans to take credit for the inevitable disintegration of M$. Sorry Eric, that's going to take the whole community to achieve, unless you plan to take your arsenal to Redmond...
you had me at #!
ESR hit send, then thought wow... I am so great, I bet I could have made 100 million a year. Oh well.. down the drain that went. Now, I'll go code some open source software in my trailer here in good ole WVA.
Who the fuck is ESR anyhow?
Jesus and Moses wouldn't be on the cover of GQ these days...but you gotta admit Mr. Raymond has a slight My Name is Earl style goin' on...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Obligatory SImpsons quote:
Bill Gates and two "associates" enter.
GATES
Your resume was brought to my attention, but I can't figure out what, if anything, you do, so rather than risk competing with you, I've decided simply to buy you out.
ESR
This is it! I've poured my heart and soul into this propaganda and now it's finally paying off. (covering his mouth) I am rich! Richer than astronauts.
(to Gates) I reluctantly accept your proposal!
GATES
Well everyone always does. Buy 'em out, boys!
Bill Gates companions begin to trash the "office".
ESR
Hey, what the hell's going on!
GATES
Oh, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!
Python script to convert photos into "artsy" portraits: http://p2pbridge.sf.net/pyPortrait/
That, and they probably thought a FOSS weinie would work for peanuts -- hell, they usually work for free!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
He has a wife. I met her in 1999 at the Atlanta Linux Showcase. She's a good-looking woman, too.
Finding God in a Dog
Looks like ESR will turn out to be the worst nightmare of the open source movement too.
I have got the same email about 10 days ago. The same guy was trying to convince me that MS is indeed open-source oriented. Vote: -1 - Lame
I've in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare since about 1997... wrote most of the theory and propaganda for [open source] and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in...I'd be just as determined to do in any other proprietary-software monopoly.
MS Exec: "Dear Lord, this guy is full of the worst concoction of bullshit and self-importance I've ever seen. We have to get him a position in marketing."
Linus started off Linux, Stallman wrote the main code of GCC, GDB and Emacs (we'll forgive him that one
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
tried posting this on his site. no luck.
"err, maybe i am wrong, but it looks as if you used Microsoft Word (or was it Outlook?) to type your reply. ie, in "Who are you?" and "open source", the angled quotes look just like those horrible Word-specials."
Microsoft have a standard recruiting letter they send out. Keith Peters got the same letter, see his blog. About time they changed the wording : Keith also turned down Microsoft.
Why hasn't everyone started just ignoring everything ESR says? He is obviously a nutcase. Yeah he wrote one semi-interesting essay about open source, but what has he done lately? The only reason to keep him a part of "the movement" is that RMS looks like a reasonable person next to him.
Anyone remember this April Fool's post to linux-kernel?
seems to me that this is spam if they are an outside vendor and they aren't contacting him with an actual job offer.
;P
tomorrow i will submit my article about how i received a 'job' offer from a twenty-year-old teenage virgin whore gone wild who is hopped up on verbal viagra and cheap meds from canada!
sum.zero
ps ms encourages spam!
Don't click!
Even Microsoft uses Yahoo Maps, not mappoint.msn.com! Microsoft One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=One +Microsoft+Way&csz=Re dmond%2C+WA+98052&country=us>
I like how everyone on here berates him for how he responded.
Seriously, what you *you* do? Be polite for the sake of professionalism or make a fun joke out of the whole thing that you can tell for years to come?
What a pompous ass.
Couldn't have picked a better name for this idiot. With morons like this at the helm, it's a shame but no wonder that most people use Windows on their desktop.
I'm a big tall mofo.
It sounds like there was nothing close to a job offer here, just a recruiter spamming possible candidates.
But, if they did know who he was, then it was probably just an information gathering mission, which is pretty common. Bring someone from your competitor in, dangle a high paying job in front of them, and grab as much information as they are willing to give. Then, come up with some excuse about organizational changes, and the position being eliminated or delayed..
I would think this technique would work very well on someone who seems very insecure -- constantly needing to prove his worth, and loves to hear himself talk.
It's really too bad.. MS hiring ESR would be the best thing that could happen to the free software movement. Eliminate a jackass that somehow gets quoted as authoritative in the press, and inject all that bullshit inside of MS.
Wow, this result makes ESR sound like an immature 12-year-old loser who *FINALLY* got his first chance to be nasty to someone.
But even on this front is was pretty feeble; I mean, he didn't use an 1337 5p34k, question the sexuality of the person, or insist that all of Microsoft's base belong to us.
Quite the ambassador for the F/OSS movement indeed. . . .
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
"Additionally, if you are aware of any current or previous colleagues who might also be interested in opportunities at Microsoft, I would be happy to speak with them as well. Referrals are always welcome, and are greatly appreciated."
ESR should give out the name of Linus. What a great gag. This bad boy should be passed around the block to all FOSS developers
I read his "strong response", but I'd classify it more as "insulting response".
:)
:)"
Here's what *I* would have answered, had I been in his place:
Dear X: Maybe someone put a joke on you, see, I'm the people who lured away X, Y and Z companies away from your proprietary products to replace them with Linux. I'm an open source evangelist as you can see in A, B and C webpages. There I state explicitly that by the time I joined Microsoft, Hell would freeze over. Yes, I hate Microsoft and I think it's pure evil.
Seriously, you need to spend *a bit* more time doing background checks. Hey, you're Microsoft people, you can surely write an automated tool to do a google (oops, MS) search or something.
As I have no personal quarrel against you, I'm not going to insult you, but, seriously, the moment I saw that e-mail I felt outraged and insulted. I really have an urge to tell you one or two things, but I'll spare that - I can just invite you to read my webpages
Oh, in case you want a short, concise answer, it's NO, I WILL NOT WORK FOR MICROSOFT. EVER.
Thank you, and have a nice day
PGP signature: blahblahblah.
There ya go, informal but professional. Soft, but strong at the same time.
Microsoft is, after all, a tech millionaire's club.
"You want to work for Microsoft?
Would you like to be part of a really big company?
Make a significant contribution for Linux and well hire you!"
Honestly i dont think MS really can hire away the talent that works on Linux and all the various bits and pieces surrounding it. Maybe they snag away some poeple out of employment but i cant see that as a bad thing for the community. The signal is clearly that linux people is sought after, even by Microsoft.
HTTP/1.1 400
YOU FUCKING FRAUD!
They chose to test the water by sticking their little pinky toe in, before diving in head first.
I hope he reads this.
I'm a huge fan. I'm currently reading "The Cathedral and the Bazzar" and like it quite a bit. I use Linux solely at home and things like Firefox on my company-enabled laptop. I work for an ISP and pride myself on being a networking/Linux guy. I don't dispise Microsoft, but I do have to support their OS sometimes for work, and usually see windows as a "client" OS, not of my choice.
I'm sure most people appreciate the zeal and fervor in which you declined the offer... in some ways, accepting a job from them would be not only an insult to you, but quite possibly even a demotion. If you're completely happy with what you've accomplished and your goals, fantastic. If you feel you have more work to do, even better. I'd like to think you're doing so for the improvement of our time here on this planet.
But I have to admit, some of us might have taken the job. Take me for example. Sure, I have a pretty nice job, and I'm a Linux geek, but a job offer from any large company would be a dream come true for me. I'm "noone important" that MS would have gone after for pure political reasons, to control or hinder with crazy noncompete clauses or insane contracts.
But a job at MS (or any "large company") at this point would help me out. I feel the same as many of the posters here on slashdot... I agree with your ideas, but in this particular instance, I think you give us a bad name. They're beating you at their game. Please don't let that happen.
Someday maybe I'll take a much better position at a larger place... hopefully it will be a Google or similar and not an MS. Till then, I'll be happy in my current job and keep up to date with the software, the ideas and the literature, as well as the hearts and minds of the people.
-- FLR (*my* initials)
FLR
I can think of a few people in the free software community that would like to see Eric Raymond go away more than Microsoft would.
Actually, more than a few.
Those of you who bash ESR for his statements or claimed accomplishments either don't know the history of his contributions to OSS or you patently ignore it for some reason (likely jealousy or some inferiority complex). I never met him and I'm not sure I would like him (although I think I would based on reading much of what he has written). But those making the hack comments regarding his work should perhaps post some equivilant accomplishments. m
$ whatis msft msft: nothing appropriate
I believe the Texans have a saying that can summarize ESR well--"He's all hat."
Let Microsoft worry about him running his mouth off.
This year, I've gotten a couple of calls from Microsoft.
The first was from one of the managers who had gotten my resumé from a recruiter. We swapped a few e-mails and he sent me the "e-mail interview." Since most of the questions were about Windows, I didn't bother to fill it out. I checked and discovered that I could find most of the answers on Google, but I felt that wouldn't really be a fair way to test my knowledge of Windows--which is essentially nil--and I figured that when I told them that I used Google to answer all the questions, they'd probably not be interested anyway so it would be a waste of time to even reply.
About six months later, I got a call from one of the recruiters at Microsoft. I chatted with him a bit on the phone and discovered that they had found my resumé on-line and that it had appropriate keywords (Network, Kernel, Security, etc.). Essentially, they're looking for people with kernel experience. The fact that my experience is as a Macintosh developer seemed secondary to having the skills and interest in working on kernel programming.
I was polite and told him that I didn't think I'd be a good match because I'm not all that interested in moving to the Pacific Northwest to work on the Windows kernel. I thanked him for the call and said to keep me in mind if anything opens up in the Mac Business Unit.
But the recruiter was a pretty nice guy. He said that he'd gotten lots of calls from people who told him to fuck off and die. Personally, I think that's rude. Even if you hate Microsoft, a simple "Sorry, not interested" would be much better. Act like a jerk now and all you've done is indelibly etched yourself into his mind. Not to mention that recruiters talk to each other. Send back a rude e-mail and he shows it to some friends and they remember the name, too. In ten years, when Microsoft is bankrupt and destroyed and this recruiter or one of his friends is working for a really cool Linux company, how far do you think your resumé is going to get?
I agree that, in the case of Eric Raymond, somebody must have been having a spot of fun with the recruiter. But, as the saying goes, it never hurts to ask. Maybe Eric would be interested in coming to Microsoft and showing them how to do it right.
I didn't know him either. But by reading his e-mail, it's pretty clear he's an idiot.
I've been a member of the open source community since before you wrote "C & B". Since before you got together with a few others and even invented the term "Open Source. I've always felt that you were a bit egotistical, but this response is just an embarrassment. You've fallen into microsoft's game and given them exactly what they want. More fodder for their FUD related to the unstable and unprofessional nature of those involved with Open Source.
I hereby revoke any title you thought you had as "The Leader" of the open source movmeemnt.
--
The Man In Charge
If a form letter asking for a telephone screening constitutes a job offer for Eric Raymond, I wonder if porn spam counts as a proposition for sex for him too.
And each Nigerian scammer is an offer for a multimillion-dollar business deal, I suppose?
Really, the guy is a freaking liability. The only things he can say now is worthless flamebait, and he hasn't made a positive contribution to F/OSS for an age. If he takes the Microsoft job, he might get Microsoft to understand free software a bit better, or he might just drive a few microsoft guys insane. We can't lose!
After all, this is what Eric is doing today after the self appointed OSI Queen Ms. Cooper had Eric expelled from the presidency.
Lets see, a large successful company is looking around at high profile software politicians.
Isn't this an acceptable way to figure out how to deal with the current software environment? Hire a few experienced people and they could understand, work compete and ultimately be successful in this new more open environment.
What would happen if RMS directed (MS/government) free software policy? If Ralph Nader directed automotive safety?
Raymond promotes himself as more than Kernighan, Ritchie, Stroustrap, Torvalds, Joy, Stallman, Ramey, and Wall and yet I don't think he's even close to being as valuable.
This is my sig.
Who are you? Stallman, I've heard of. Linus, I've heard of. You? Apparently someone with a sad case of megaloegomania.
I must stand by everyone else who observed what a pompous child you are. And you're part of the OSS community? Here I was thinking everyone was a modest and humble soul.
Unfortunately, I haven't gotten such a letter, but if I did, I think it would be at least amusing to go to a job interview.
For one thing, maybe Microsoft is "moving towards open source". Maybe you could help them. But, if hell is not yet superconductive, it'd still be fun to confuse all the PR people.
I would consider working for Microsoft, IF I was given a sufficient amount of control over my own project, AND it was GPL'd and free of patents. Which, if Microsoft was thinking straight, wouldn't be such a bad idea -- it'd be great PR, and it'd produce great software, something they seem incapable of on their own.
I would NOT consider working for Microsoft if it was on something like "Services for Unix".
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" -- Bill Gates.
After reading this, it is not difficult to understand why Open Source is not treated seriously. That ESR was offered a job at Microsoft is inherently interesting and amusing; his (public) reply makes him sound like a 14 year old boy trying to impress his friends with false stories of sexual prowess.
You might know me, I'm kind of important. I have many leather bound books.
I enjoyed the read and was slightly jealous it was not me writing that letter. How many people get to tell MS to "shove it" in more than one sense. Was it odd? Sure it was, but OS is not always about following the rules or protocols.
This wouldn't happen if USA citizens have the freedom to carry guns.
sgis ddo ekil t'nod i
You know you're popular when you make a comparison between yourself and the Pope and nobody flinches.
ESR points his .45 at his computer monitor and shouts "YOU HEAR ME MICROSOFT!!??! Just GIVE me and excuse to USE this thing!!"
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
I read the (I piss on you) response from ESR
I wrote my own response to his response.
BEGIN QUOTE ->
Without parroting every other post, I'm dissapointed. Your time is precious I'm sure, but, I would have hoped you would take this opportunity to get some more insight and find out what they offer you. Even If you found it unnacceptable, you could report the results. What if they want to set up a new open source steering group at MS. You're content to leave that job in the Gentoo guys hands alone surrounded by MS borg engineers. If you are the visionary you claim (I make no judgement either way, I appreciate the work you do.) you need to know where/how your enemy is strategizing. From the outside you can react, from the inside you can be proactive. (Think along the lines of AOL and Nullsoft. You see it now?)
Once again I am saddened. Maybe RMS and Linus will think out their responses a little more carefully. I really have a hard time understanding why you chose a typical slashdiot antiMS diatribe.
We do/will coexist with these guys. 2 PCs in my office 1 Windows, 1 Linux. (about 125 embedded linux devices in varying stages of programming) The more we can convince them of the advantages of working with us, the less they will work against us. You have a position of some authority in the FOSS community, which should be used it wisely/judiciously. I would have fired you if you sent that response through my server. Very Unproffessional.
Having said that, I also understand that you hold firmly to your convictions. As an individual, you have every right to express yourself like an ass, and you have yet again exercised that right. (In my opinion to the detriment of us all.)
Then again, Maybe its all much simpler. Maybe just Maybe you were afraid you wouldn't be able to say no (alleged convictions be damned) to the dump truck full of scratch they were gonna offer you, Surely you won't have to make that tough choice now. But you also have ruined any chance of steering change from the inside.
Then there is the peer pressure issue. Maybe you saw the reaction/backlash to Daniel Robbins accepting a position at MS. But careful reading of that backlash will lead you right through all the points of this post.
Maybe its simpler than all that and you are a juvenile sophmoric technophile. Having read almost all of your writings and speeches and books, I hadn't come to that conclusion. Could you just clear it up for me? I can't quite decide.
- End QUOTE
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
I think he should have followed-up and seen how far he could get in the interview process. Be very polite to the head-hunter and see if he could score an interview at Microsoft's expense.
Now that would have been a laugh. Of course it might have been damaging to his ego if he actually started the interview and the people he spoke with didn't know who he was.
ESR likes to spin himself as being the sensible alternative to RMS' religious fanaticism. It's times like this that he shows his true colors. He is another RMS, just not as successful in tooting his own horn.
/. position about Microsoft. My feelings about MS are rather ambiguous. I don't love or hate them. If they have something that is useful for me, I use it; otherwise, I ignore them. They're not in my way, so why should I expend energy hating them?
In fairness, I have to admit that I do not have the usual
What I notice with fanatics such as RMS and ESR is a pattern of failure. RMS thought that his playing on ITS gave him the technical ability to rewrite UNIX from scratch; it turned out that he did not. ESR doesn't even have RMS' technical ability.
It comes down to the fact that they don't have the ability to rewrite Windows, or even to create a reasonable alternative within the open source context. Apple comes closest with Mac OS X, but all the important parts are Apple proprietary.
The open source GUIs all suck, and they can't hack on the Windows or Mac OS X GUIs because those are proprietary. That is the source of their rage. it's jealousy.
of ego.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have personal reasons to object against business policies
Nothing wrong with working for MS.
Provided, of course, you have no morals or ethics. I guess you would have no problem working for the Cosa Nostra so long as they paid well, either.
How about spammers? They're legal, you know (CAN SPAM act). Lots of money to be made.
Or how about moving to Nevada and whoring your wife out?
I fucking hate America's State-sponsored religion (Mammon)
Elektroschock == troll
A/C (me) == biter
ESR can kill anyone he wants! ESR cuts off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. This guy is so crazy and awesome that he flips out ALL the time. I heard that ESR was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon then ESR killed the whole town. My friend Mark who was at LinuxWorld said that he saw ESR totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
Take that Evil Microsoft Recruiter! ZING! Didn't expect that did ya? That will teach your for all your, um, recruiting! IN YOUR FACE!
Seriously, I bet this guy is like many other presumably ideologically neutral incidental Microsoft employees who probably doesn't give a shit about ESR or his snyde comebacks. He probably has a pile of 1000s of other people to email.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I love the line in the sig of the recruiter. "How far will you go?" I guess he went pretty far - it takes a certain level of pompousness that rather scares me when he mentioned "on that hopefully not too far distant day that I piss on Microsoft's grave." This "I-will-outlive-your-company" attitude smacks of some type of religious war where it almost seems he would be standing there cheering over the death of a large company while 60,000 people are now without jobs.
However, one little rant. Everytime people bring up ESR, someone has to mention his ideas about guns. This is serious ad hominem and irrelevant to the discussion at hand...unless if it points out that he's really not the FOSS advocate he claims he is but simply a pompous windbag.
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA, through the Classification and Rating Administration (CARA) issued an R rating to ESR's response!
R - Restricted - Can contain mature themes (usually sex and/or violence). Children under 17 not admitted without an adult.
>> "clearly not /. worthy news"
The job offer isn't. ESR's reply is. It's bad for all of us, him acting as such a child on our behalf.
It's odd saying that, him being over twice my age... but he truly does have an ego, and it's *not* helping F/OSS.
So yes, I think that is, alas, newsworthy.
is the phrase I usually use to describe how people make the best speech they'll ever regret. (Made quite a few of those in my time.)
Now if Steve Balmer get a massive coronary, (with all that jumping around, sweating and spewing gibberish,) and Bill Gates suddenly deveops a conscience (Nah, never happen...) he might have been the person to show Microsoft the path to the light.
Won't happen now...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Very old rule: never say "no" - just quote an astronomical price to the people you don't want to work for. Who knows? They might say "yes" and you'll become really rich or powerful.
I've been approached by Microsoft a few times. My answer is always the same: I'll work for them if I get the authority to prevent any/all product from shipping if the product does anything with or to the Internet that isn't standards compliant. No more "embrace and extend." No more proprietary protocols and file formats.
They usually smile and walk away after that.
Noooo!
Please hire him!!
More 'How I Like To Play' by ESR.g g
http://www.catb.org/~esr/graphics/raymond007-6.jp
http://www.catb.org/~esr/graphics/raymond007-7.jp
Would that be a Bush*** break?
Dole*** break?
Gate***
Fuck*** break?
Piss*** break?
shit*** break?
cunt*** break?
disk*** break?
dick*** break?
dish*** break?
fish*** break?
wish*** break?
tish*** break?
posh*** break?
tosh*** break?
owls*** break?
cows*** break?
shot*** break?
slut*** break?
slit*** break?
what*** break? Inquiring minds want to know!
It's interesting the appointment system used by Micro$oft recruiters (appointmentquest.com) is "100% pure Micrsoft(R) product-free environment" !! http://appointmentquest.com/about
A few years ago I got an interview with Microsoft and on the whole it very interesting. They flew me out to Redmond and footed the bill for everything. I didn't get the job, but I did meet some interesting people and on the whole had a good time. Next time ESR, go talk to them first and then refuse. Freebies don't pop up everyday you know! ;)
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
That's where they keep them while they slave over the next version of Explorer. (A possible explanation for the quality of the code.)
They grumble so loudly that they can't let up into the light. They all look like mole people now. (A possible explanation for the lack of code reviews. They eat the reviewers.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Who's the bigger ass?
Gates Vs. ESR
Who's Richard Stallman?
Look, I realize that there have been a lot of negative posts knocking on ESR for this email. Try viewing this article at mod=5 and it's basically all criticism. To those who lambast ESR, I assert that you have an underdeveloped sense of humor and/or knowledge of deep-geek culture. The response was darned funny, if I were the recruiter I would have gotten a good laugh from it and moved on. Were he other than he is, ESR would lose his authentic appeal to the real engineers who agree with him. Look, we're not supposed to be charming and charismatic; or if we are, at least it isn't what defines us as hackers. Hackers are, by and large, short-tempered when confronted with blatant stupidity. We can be vindictive and hold quasi-religious beliefs about the merits of our favorite software. That's what we are, and ESR is just being honest about it. My $0.02.
Hi!
I'd be more than happy to discuss potential job opportunities within Microsoft Corporation, but to simplify matters I'd appreciate it if you would take the time to answer a few questions beforehand:
1) Have you ever talked with a programmer not employed at Microsoft before? If so; how long ago, what was their name and where (tech fair, campus recruiting, etc.) did you speak?
2) Will Microsoft be prepared to change it's present policy, and start shipping working software in any of the following categories: OS Software, Office Software, Development Software, Home & Personal Software (including games), Educational Software? Please indicate any preferences as well.
3) If I accept employment, will I be allowed complete anonymity and deniability regarding my employment at the company, and, on terminating my employment prematurely due to subpoenaed or volontary testimony before a U.S. district or federal court, will I be guaranteed priority status in the FBI Witness Protection Program at company expense?
4) Has the company performed any gross violations of law or common business ethics, including, but not limited to: Wilfull abuse of monopoly, intentionally degrading the quality or reliability of the companys products in order to force customers to otherwise unneccessary upgrades, or creating compatibility conflicts in OS software in order to cripple superior competing products, in the past 12 months? (other than all such acts presently publicly known and upheld in ruling by U.S. district or federal court)
5) If I accept a position, what severance pay will I receive as compensation for the social stigma and damage to my professional reputation incurred by my accepting employment at Microsoft?
Please respond by either email to my address, spam@esr.ibiblio.org or telephone,(999) 999-9999. I can be reached weekdays during 10:14AM - 10:15PM, Nepal Time zone. Please leave a voicemail message at all other times.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
Eric S. Raymond
The guy does exist in the address book and his title and location do match. So I think the email conversation in grandparent is real.
News Flash....... who the f*ck cares that ESR got a job offer. next new section at Slashdot. Joe Somebody offered job at McDonald's. Joe's reply... go flip your own d*mn burgers.
I never thought I'd see the day when I respect someone less than I respect RMS.
Congratulations, ESR, you're a legend in your own mind.
That wasn't too bright letting this link from his letter get into the wild. I suspect this guy's calendar will be entirely clogged with mass amounts of appointments for quite a long while from mischievious slashdotters and their friends:
2 7> online to schedule a convenient time for me to contact you. ..." ...and they're off! :)
"...Please take a moment to visit My Calendar http://www.appointmentquest.com/provider/20102249
(Stolen sig) Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus", a "Microsoft worm", not a "computer worm
I have a friend who spouts off every time a woman looks at him in a bar.
"Dude, I think she's into me"
That's what this sounds like.
ESR totally sucks. He thinks he inveted open source. What an asshole. He is not a m1rk contributor, OE user, yahooudible, IE6 smart, educated, good person like we are.
"If I were him I would [insert total RIGHT bullshit from frustratred nonames]." Give me a breake. You are not ESR and I think there aren't 10 people in the position to tell ESR what would be best for Linux in his actions.
When he will piss on M$'s grave I will be right there handing him as many beers as necessary.
Great, first we have RMS with his rewrite of the GPL which tries to overtake the world, and now we have ESR and his runaway freight train of an ego. Are these two morons in a competition to see who can damage the image of the F/OSS movement more?
Bill Gates litrerally could not have asked for a better gift than the continued public statements by these two clowns.
Miguel de Icaza has never failed to impress me with his charm, intelligence, and infectious enthusiasm. Nat Friedman, too, for that matter. Kudos to Novell for scooping them up.
Breakfast served all day!
I would be interested to see the other spin on this story: "Microsoft reaches out to open source community, offers to work with noted writer, told to go to hell."
I'd hate to see this guy's reaction to those "You've been preapproved for a loan" or "You may already be a winner" mailers...
ESR can go to hell for all i care.
That was just a little probing. After that he'd have to do a couple phone interviews, and after phone interviews (if he passes them) he'd have to go through a six-hour MS interview gauntlet.
Job offer comes if you successfully complete a six-hour interview, and he'd probably be rejected during phone interview without further consideration. I seriously envy the guy. He thinks so much about himself. Humility be damned.
Various software companies try to discredit the open source movement by stating that the movement is made up of juvenile, unprofessional, irresponsible individuals. By responding in the manner that he did, Eric only propogates this incorrect stereotype.
I'm dissapointed he didn't take the job. Somehow I'm convinced this would be a good thing for open source.
It was a completly disrespectfull answer.
I have the impression ESR is linux own open sourced version of FUD.
Getting a call from HR is not a job offer. A job offer comes after a round of interviews, and is typically a written document with terms, salaries, dates, etc.
What Eric got was a letter from HR saying simply, that they heard he may be interested in a job, and offering to answer his questions. If any of you all just sent a letter to Microsoft asking about jobs, you'd probably get a similar reply.
It's puzzling that Eric Raymond calls this a "job offer". He's either stupid, or a liar. Pick one.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Breakfast served all day!
"ESR is not as famous as he thinks he is"
Really, what's the story here? That some Microsoft headhunter doesn't know Eric Raymond? Does that really surprise anyone?
to one of the comments here
>> Techflock-flock onto the best bits of technology
Sounds like this guy is in need of a long-overdue locker stuffing.
Steve Balmer: "Please tell me you didn't try to recruit Eric Raymond."
Mike Walters: "It was Eric Raymond."
Steve Balmer does his Bobby Knight imitation.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
Norman Bates was just offered a job to teach hospitality management.
ESR software page
ESR projects page
ESR continuity page (appears to be a will)
The more notable that I am aware and use daily or monthly are termcap, ncurses, INTERCAL, fetchmail, sed, gif2png, and gpsd. He also is contributor of a false english dialect that tends to do more harm than good; The Jargon File (aka the Hacker's Dictionary).
Happy to help.
without prejudice
Pretty please?
With so many 3 and 4-digit uids, Your Honorable Sirs must be white of hair and wise of head, so can you all tell me why are you bashis His Honorable Gunman ESR?
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I'd rather work for a company where my boss throws a chair and says he's going to f***ing bury some guy because I want to switch jobs.
What a pompous ass.
ESR's response somehow seems fitting for a company run by monkey boy and rain man.
Anyway, we have plenty of historical precedent for companies like Microsoft and it's pretty clear what's going to happen: the company is going to become afflicted with the usual big-company malaise, while its founders will be remembered as intellectual robber barons.
Oh! I thought you were going to say, "with the downhill bent that Microsoft has been on".
That would be perhaps more accurate.
Okay - I can't argue that!
I met ESR in Hawaii. He was on his way back from a conference in Japan. He claimed that Japanese women found him irresistable, which I found kind of amusing. He's quite a character and a lot of fun to bar hop with, but he's an easy target to poke fun at, as is anyone who thinks very highly of themselves. Many old timers think he's all talk and no action, but there's no denying that he did quite a bit to popularize Linux early on.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
And a pretty funny one, too! If all it takes to get Eric's knickers in a knot is getting a form letter from a company recuiter (which he calls a "job offer"--makes you wonder how inflated the rest of his claims are!), then this is much too easy!
I suspect he'll start getting lots of calls from every fast-food joint and Starbucks around the country! And he'll be equally mad that *they've* never heard of him!
Best Buy can have you arrested
Mr. Raymond, I'd ask you has your carreer benefited at all from Microsoft? If you answer this question honestly, you'll say yes. I DID do some research on you and I see that a number of your articles were published in PC Magazine. Now, would PC magazine be around if it wasn't for Microsoft? I don't think so, at least not in the same form. Now, I'm a Linux user and I'm not a Microsoft flag waver or anything like that, but your email is completely and uterly discusting to me. The fact that you assumed that this was a job offer shows a huge amount of arrogance on your part, but to respond to anyone offering you a job in that manner shows exactly who you are.
No Sigs!
What's wrong with politely declining Microsoft's invitation? I can understand not wanting to work for Microsoft because one's personal morals and ethics. I even understand the desire to explain oneself, but there was no need to be rude or abrasive (especially since the invitation seemed to be made in good faith)./p.
I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
You misread me...I was making fun of msuzio.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
You use INTERCAL daily or monthly? My god, man why!? (me="humorously stunned")
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Sadly, I think you're exactly right. I don't pay much attention to ESR, but from the little I've seen he's turned into a bit of a blowhard. There's something a bit immature in his reply to the job inquiry. The audience he's really talking to his fans in attempt to get high-fives from then all around. It reminds me of the pretty girl (but allaround bitch) who gets asked out to the prom by the nerd, then proceeds to make a big scene so her friends can make fun of the nerd. See "Mean Girls" or "Heathers" if you need a movie reference.
I think his last comment of "not causing enough trouble" is dead on. I doubt many people at Microsoft (especially outside of developer circles) knows who he is.
AccountKiller
nt
Reading through the comments in this thread, it appears that Slashdot has been completely overrun with anti-Linux astroturfers. Where are the real techno-news geeks hanging out these days? Did I miss a memo?
then why the hell is M$ so desperate to dismiss Linux in that stupid Get the facts marketing campaign?
if it wasn't bothering them, they wouldn't even mention it. they're aknowledging its a real competitor and a threat to their business model
I don't feel like it...
Shouldn't that be "with billions of dollars and a long history of not going anywhere?"
Isn't it time for someone at Slashdot to fix the ampersand handling in subject lines?
*thinks*: OMG I got an automatic email from m$ ! this is my opportunity to send out an email and make it public in an attempt to be even more popular! clickety! clickety! clack! Dear MS dude: clickety clak go f*ck yourself *thinks* omg! it's just like when I that guy at kindergarden didn't let me play with him (continues) click clak click clack *send* that'll show the world that I can cause controversy by giving an absurd level of importance to an automated email, that I can treat like shit a guy who doesn't know who I am, and that I ask all waiters to remove the 15% auto-grat. Because yeah, they deserve it for not knowing who I am. geez.
Why you never see ESR and RMS in a room at the same time?
So you didn't care to read the article? ESR _called_ the guy and talked with him over the phone! This guy was serious about offering him a job!
You've got to admire ESR. If a 12 yr old broke into our site and posted something that made us look like a complete jackass, most of us would have removed it, and then figured out how we got hacked. But ESR knew what a propaganda coup it would be if MS could say "FOSS is no more secure than our SW. If even a leader of the FOSS world can get hacked, how do you think you could be safe with FOSS?
ESR is going along with the 12 yr old's joke, and allowing himself to be made a fool of, rather than exposing a break-in of a major FOSS site.
Way to go ESR!
Kevin Horton
ESR, RMS... AFAIK Linus' full name is Linus Benedict Torvalds. We should start to call him LBT from now on.
John Carmack's middle name begins with D (couldn't find the full name), so that makes him JDC.
So, if JDC talks about the Doom port to the OS initiated by LBT and releasing source code under the GPL created by RMS and is totally ignoring ESR, no non-geek will understand a word...
Regards,
Dennis B. Schramm
Sigs suck!
Get Over Yourself!
> Would *you* dine with the devil?
Of course I would. Depriving him of food is a good way of fighting evil, and boy, you gotta see me eat!
wow. Could he have been any more of a douchebag? He certainly is drumming up some great publicity for the Open Source community! And he seems proud of his response, too. Oh yes, he's just hilarious.
... is to tie up as many open source people under non-compete agreements as they (MSFT) can. Not only can they (open source people) not contribute while working for Microsoft, they can't contribute thereafter, either. And that's for contributions to either OSS or Google (kill two birds with one hire).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
I have covered this news with an article which you can copy under the GFDL or Creative Commons.
This guy is such a douchebag.
Does anyone actually care what he has to say? Blah blah blah! I wrote a childish essay based on conjecture and wishful idealistic thinking, once! I have a stupid mustache! I'm a 12 year old trapped in a sad aging sack of blotchy skin!
Gaze unto the horror! The horror!
Just shut up. Please. Shut. Up.
And for the love of all that is holy, shave that stupid fucking mustache!
Thanks.
oh wait...
maybe not...sorry Sir Tim,
i just read another of ESR's blog entries...
Hey please don't associate a nice herb like pot with a crackpot butthead like ESR.
obviously, they are just trying to make him look silly. I think it's working.
Look how red-faced he's getting about a call from a head hunter.
I bet he yells at telemarketers too
I don't like MS but this guy (as has been mentioned before) is a pompous ass. I can't imagine someone so self-absorbed can find a open-source team to put up with his ass.
At least Gates puts up a pleasent public figure. In fact he is doing better than the US govt on that a couple of ways (funding for the irradication of polio and other diseases for which vaccines exists would be my primary example).
Gates may be greedy and cunning, but at least he isn't a whining, attention-seeking, self-important jerk, who provides little or no good to the world.
Come on ESR, if you want to be a prick, at least be a security-minded one. Sheesh.
This is another
Defense Secretary Michael Moore. That would be really funny.
:-)
He has experience, too! Didn't you know? The whole plan for the war in Iraq came right out of Canadian Bacon
No more wars for oil! Instead, he could point the missles at whichever country exports the most ham.
Likewise on Python. He's contributed, but he isn't a leader. Emacs and Python are not "that guy's software."
The projects that ESR has led have been tiny compared to Emacs, or the Linux kernel, or any of the major GNU programs. There are at at least a hundred people whose contributions to free software are vastly more significant than ESR's.
ESR was a useful advocate back in the late 90s, but he's less important than he thinks he is.
If/when Microsoft does go under I would fly there to visit the campus as everything is auctioned by a bank. I bet there would be a long line to pay $10 for a photo pissing on the front sign.
After I get my photo I would ask Bill Gates if he would like a job at my company. He can be the janitor scrubbing the toilets.
You've maybe heard about this "open source" thing? You get one guess who wrote most of the theory and propaganda for it and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in.
Uh, huh. Right. You did it single-handedly.
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
so mr. eric s. raymond, don't flatter yourself, yet.
From TFA:
"Additionally, if you are aware of any current or previous colleagues who might also be interested in opportunities at Microsoft, I would be happy to speak with them as well. Referrals are always welcome, and are greatly appreciated."
Is it just me, or does this sound like a chain email?
From an ethical point of view.
And from a technical point of view at least it is possible to improve things if sombeody wants to.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
ESR and Bill Gates surprisingly have something in common, in that they are both egomaniacs with extraordinarily overinflated opinions of themselves.
Before the flamefest begins, please read his words carefully. There is no room for reading that sentence to mean anything but that ESR singlehandledly talked IBM, Wall Street, and the entire Fortune 500 into open source.
1. Eric Raymond gets a form letter from MS.
2. Eric Raymond gets insulted because it's just a standard recruiting template later.
3. Eric Raymond has a tantrum in public.
4. Everyone loves the human drama element so it's suddenly on slashdot.
It's gossipy-interesting, but meaningless.
i read his 'the cathedral and the bazaar' essay, as well as his self-promoting followup, which chronicled his meteoric rise to oss rockstardom. this is email to ms sounds very much like something he'd write.
From his blog: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=209#more-209
A bit disconnected from reality?
It wasn't a mistake.
It was a deliberate attempt to compromise ESR by tricking him into actually conducting some sort of "dialog" with these MS assholes.
Fortunately, his acerbity kicked in and his response was entirely correct. So their little plan didn't work.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
instead of this petulant childish reply, the situation was perfect for a corporate parody written in pure businesspeak.
If it was me, I have would send the guy the resume and quietly arrange an interwiew. After Redmont, I would give a nice press release that "the Microsoft core values and corporate structure did not seem to fit with my mission and objectives and it transpired that an employment at Microsoft would not result in synergies with the Open source movement"
I would take the day off. It could be more fun than visiting Church of Scientology recruitment center.
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
Frozen wastelands? I understand what kind of point you are making, but try to be at least a little civilized - and learn some geography.
These "frozen wastelands" aka the Nordic countries are some of the most prosperous places in Europe and the world, and constantly rank highest on pretty much any international ranking (quality of life/press freedom/environment/low corruption..).
On some of the highest peaks in the north of these countries one can find permafrost - nowhere else. There really is no way this region is any more a "frozen wasteland" than non-tropical parts of the US.
Please consider the Smart Answers article, which was written a while ago.
she only gave a 900 number and i don't want the wife to see that on the bill. that might be hard to respond to...
/. is teh devil!
no, really honey. it was research for a slashdot article. no, i don't think it is good to lie to your partner, but...
i'm sorry. you're right;
sum.zero
I feel ashamed that you're part of our world. Your reply was so unprofessional it ain't nowhere close to funny. You're sick and really got to do something about that ego of yours. Yes, you've contributed a lot but you are just one of the millions who have. So stuff that ego. We can do just fine without you, irrespective of what you think of yourself.
/. comments: Bullshitting with IBM execs and "maintaining" a silly jargon file doesn't make you a B-list celebrity.
Paraphrasing one of the
You're nothing. Face it. Great contributor, no doubt. But that's all. One among a million+.
Well, this confirms for me that Eric has this need to flame other people to make himself feel good.
I've encountered him a couple of other times, including once when he responded to me personally for some email commentary about one of his blogs, and each time, his response has been an over-the-top panty thrashing for the unfortunate target of his self-righteous indignation.
Phooey. His email to Microsoft was inappropriate and childish. How about 'no thanks, I disagree with your corporate culture.'?
What a dweeb.
The big luminaries (with the probable exception of RMS) did not make linux what it is. It is the army of developers around the world that did. It is disgusting that some of those luminaries seem to think that the open source world rests on their shoulders. And least of all on the shoulders of someone like ESR.
In the real world people are violent, commit rape, and torture eachother. He had the decency not to kill the family of the microsoft employee who contacted for wasting his time.
Fuck you and your secure little bubble world.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.