Slashdot Mirror
Revolution Least Expensive Next-Gen Console
exdeath writes "Today, one of Nintendo's most public faces said the Revolution
will stand out from its competition for a reason besides its innovative controller: price.
Speaking to CNN/Money correspondent Chris Morris Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing,
predicted that the Revolution would be cheaper than both the Xbox 360
and the PlayStation 3. How low will Nintendo go? It's hard to tell.
Microsoft is selling two Xbox 360 SKUs--the no-frills $299 core Xbox
and the $399 standard model with hard drive and wireless remote. In his interview with Morris, Fils-Aime also reiterated that the
Revolution will not support high-definition televisions. 'What we'll
offer in terms of gameplay and approachability will more than make up
for the lack of HD,' he said. Both Microsoft and Sony are making much
of the 360 and PS3's HD capabilities. Fils-Aime also implied that the DS will see redesigns, just as the Game Boy Advance has."
OMFG have you seen the Halo 2 trailer it's like slow and it's telling you all the stuff you did in the first one then the music kicks in and and the chief comes out and gets a gun the earf is on fire and chief is like fuck this im jumping and HE JUMPS PUT OF TEH SPACESHIP with angels singing and he lands on the bad guys and that annoying ai lady is like GO GET EM TIGER! WILDCAT IS ON TEH SPOKE!!!~`1 and theres less polys but rawkin bumb mappings you can view this on a special MICROSOFT xbox disk that comes with EB games store.
Having started playing FPS's at 1920x1200 and 1600x1200 on my 6800, I don't think it would be possible for me to go back to NTSC resolution for modern games. This is a big black mark against this console.
[ home ]
Ah, yes, the one flaw of the Gamecube that developers complained about most rears its ugly head again.
It's not like space is a bad thing, or even expensive. Heck, I don't even care if they provided a 512 MB USB stick and a special USB slot for it in the back. But why remove even the possibility of using it for developers?
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Nintendo, of the three, targets children better than any other of the big three console developers. The average parent doesn't want to spend $400 to keep their child happy (nevermind that the odds that the child will use the majority space of the harddrive on the xbox360 is slim to none). They did it with the DS (unintentionally?) and it's helped them as well. It's now a semi-proven model of competition for them that works.
When you look at the specs of the PS3 or Xbox 360, it appears to me that your money is getting you a better system. With the Revolution not supporting high-definition, it should be discounted. I'm sure it will be better than the gamecube, but it just seems odd to me that they wouldn't support HD. When I bought my television last year, suddenly my PS2 got a lot fewer hours on it. The Xbox just looked so nice. And after all, I paid enough money for the TV that I want to see it the way it is intended.
Finance tutorials and more! Understandfinance
Lower price, innovative controller, solid graphics, and great online. Looks like the Revolution is setting itself up to be great.
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
Considering the $50+ price tag of new games, is the console price really that important?
As important as it is to lowball the competition when you're coming in from a niche angle like Nintendo is with the Revolution, it certainly isn't everything. GameCube was $100 cheaper, and all it really did was convince all of the consumers that it wasn't as technically able or as good an investment as PS2 or Xbox.
While the cheaper price will help, I think the only way it'll become useful in the marketplace is if Nintendo successfully distinguishes it and its remote-like controller from the competition. If they can pull off a positive impression from the public, mix in some media hype, and simultaneously be able to get into more households via the accessible price, they'll probably be in business. Not looking like a purple lunch box will probably also help them carve out their own new little market to get out of the pissing contest Microsoft and Sony are throwing all their money at in preparation of.
Of course, what's really to be seen is how well HDTV is adopted by people and how many gamers will be alright with the fact that few if any Revolution games will output any higher than 480p. They might look beautiful on standard TVs, but once the console has been out a couple years and HDTV adoption rates are more pervasive, it'll probably bring the console to a screeching halt similar to what the GameCube is experiencing.
-Juice
Sounds like they're producing a console not quite up to par. Sure it cuts price, but who wants something that won't sparkle and shine in a couple years as HDTVs become more commonplace? I guess if you're in the price market to care about console price, you don't have a good TV, but seriously- if they cut that, what else do they cut? What half-@$$ed hardware is in there, cheap production, and buggy software.
Sounds like another Nokia game console using old hardware.
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
Wireless, no HD, less space than a 360. Confused?!?
The DS has finally met its potential with the latest round of games ... Phoenix Wright, Nintendogs, and Mario Kart... the surgeon game also looks good although I've forgotten the title.
Meanwhile, the PSP continues to be a piece of shit with few games, and nothing original to the platform. I bet you PSP owners feel pretty stupid now, eh?
Oh it's so good to see Nintendo on the come back trail, they are the only innovators left in the industry, and if anyone can bring us something fresh and new, it's Nintendo.
But, as the article says, is that enough for Nintendo? Gamecube was/is priced considerably lower than the PS2 and Xbox, but doesn't have nearly the mindshare (not even mentioning the marketshare). I'm not planning on getting either PS3 or Xbox 360 until they reach price points comparable to what the Revolution will launch at; for me, $200 is the sweet spot. Any more and I won't buy it.
Personally, I'm most excited about the possibilities of the Revolution (the controller, download old games, internet play, Super Smash Bros. Revolution Online, etc.) but I fear that it might be too little too late.
The Kerr Divine: My wife's battle with a mysterious illness.
Some people associate cheaper price with lower quality so unless the price is so low that people would just buy it anyway it could backfire. Remember Beta was cheaper than VHS and didn't sell nearly as much.
Kids want fun games, not necessarily photo-realistic graphics. And even Penny-Arcade was talking about "Blue Sparks" despite having Xboxes, so there is something to be said for great gameplay.
The Original NES was for kids. So this isn't really a deviation from their game plan. I believe it was only the N64 that started to rear its head up to the older generation...
This is a wise move. Let the already well positioned PS3 and Xbox360 battle it out for the Young Adults; Nintendo will clean up in the youth market and get respect from the YA market if they have the quality games.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I know of quite a few people who bought a GC to go alongside a PS2 or an Xbox, because of its comparatively low price. Perhaps Nintendo noticed this and is aiming the Revolution to be everyone's "other" next-gen console, given their emphasis on different kinds of games than the indistinguishable powerhouses from MS/Sony.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
It's Not a SONY.
Why does Slashdot continue to hype Nintendo's non-existent hardware? Does Nintendo even have a running prototype? This all seems quite silly. For every Slashdot article bashing Microsoft's Xbox 360, which actually exists, they seem to have a fluff article hyping something that does not even exist yet.
You will not be able to stay home, brother. You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip, Skip out for beer during commercials, Because the revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox In 4 parts without commercial interruptions. The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary. The revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will not be brought to you by the Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia. The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. The revolution will not get rid of the nubs. The revolution will not make you look five pounds thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.
There will be no pictures of you and Willie May pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance. NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32 or report from 29 districts. The revolution will not be televised.
There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process. There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving For just the proper occasion.
Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and women will not care if Dick finally gets down with Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day. The revolution will not be televised.
There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock news and no pictures of hairy armed women liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose. The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb, Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth. The revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will not be right back after a message bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people. You will not have to worry about a dove in your bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl. The revolution will not go better with Coke. The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath. The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.
The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised. The revolution will be no re-run brothers; The revolution will be live.
Ars Technica had a good piece related to this. Very briefly, they point out that most titles are written to be cross-platform, thus erasing a lot of the relative hardware benefits of each platform.
r ossplatform.ars
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/c
I think Nintendo is on to a winner; we'll see if the execution is as good as their ideas.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Nintendo has stated that on regular TVs, Revolution will be nearly indistinguishable from HD. Now, I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have an HD set and probably won't for several years - poor soon-to-be graduate student and all.
What the Revolution will be about is a new way of playing games, not the glowiest explosions. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are more or less equivalent in the games they'll let you play. The Revolution will be able to handle those games (albeit not in HD) but also open up lots of new possibilities for new games too while adding new control options to the traditional genres (RTS, FPS especially). As a gamer since I was a little tadpole, I don't see how people could not be at least a little excited about what Nintendo's doing.
Nintendo won't cut production values, because they've been about high production values and lower cost than the competitors for a while now.
__________
[Big Brick Wall]
With a low price-point, it sounds like they want to clean up in the Chinese market that's sprouted up this time 'round. And it's not like they have a lot of HDTVs.
... I've seen what it can do, and it doesn't seem to be that great of an advancement to me. Besides, a non-HD Nintendo means beautiful frame rates ... and games with a cell-shaded look to them will look the same whether on HD or regular TV.
Personally, I could care less about HD
random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
I've had every system (aside from the virtual boy) Nintendo ever put out, including 2 SNESes and 2 of the old gray block gameboy. I still own all of them. The amazing thing - they still all work (OK, the NES occasionally requires a little blowing, but still). That's pretty impressive considering that I've had a PS2 die on me already, and my old PS1 requires a little work with a bent paperclip to get discs to eject. While I don't own an XBox, I would say that, if anything, Nintendo's products stand the test of time, while Sony stuff is so fragile I'm often afraid to take it over to a friend's. Plus I rarely have had Nintendo games crash on me, while XBox games at my friends' (XMen legends for example) get wierd memory and dirty disc errors all the time.
Nintendo might be behind on raw horsepower or the best games, but I feel their hardware is top notch.
Correction!
__________
[Big Brick Wall]
I think that you meant Microsoft and SONY. :P
Nintendo Revolution: we won't attempt to install rootkits on your TV.
It's actually the most expensive console, but they hid the extra cost with $sys$.
*runs*
Meryl Lynch reported that the Xbox 360 could be as low as $250 this spring and MS would still make a profit. The revolution won't be out that soon, and when it does come out, chances are MS will only be charging a couple hundred dollars at the most. So unless the revolution starts at $100 at release, it will most likely be the same or more then the Xbox 360.
n dex.php
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/11/03/console/i
Nintendo's 'problem', if you can call it that, is that they don't target people who don't already play games. I don't know many people who bought a GC as their only console, and almost everyone I know who did buy a GC bought one because they were fans of an existing Nintendo franchise (Mario, Zelda) and wanted the newest title in the range.
The new input device looks to be a way to introduce non-gamers to the machine, but it may look a little gimmicky to them. I'm not a Nintendo fan (I got my GC for Monkey Ball!), but I hope they stick around. At least they're a bit different.
Game dev and music blog
Not to knock Nintendo here, but I'll probably never own one. The reason is simple. The problem is not the controller (I have to admit, it's a neat idea, although I'm skeptical about how comfortable it is), or the hardware, or even the fact that it's Nintendo. It's Nintendo's target audience. The games designed by Nintendo are primarily for kids. We can expect to see more of the cute loveable nintendo icons in many of their titles reincarnated a few thousand times more. These aren't the titles I want out of a console, and this will probably be the only reason I'll get an xbox 360 and skip the revolution all together. To me, price won't be the determining factor. The titles availabale will be.
The same thing happened initially when I got a portable. First I got a DS, however after 6 months of ownership I realized that Nintendo wasn't going to deliver on any of the game types I wanted to see. I sold my DS and got a PSP and haven't looked back since. The PSP simply has more titles which will appeal to the 30+ age group. Especially those who are tired of mario and friends.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
" Having started playing FPS's"
You should have quit there, but no, you forged on...
"I don't think it would be possible for me to go back to NTSC resolution for modern games. This is a big black mark against this console."
I wish more console makers would consult with you first, then we wouldn't be in this situation.
The bar by which one measures whether a game console is worth buying is a very flexible one... I don't think this will actually steal business away from XBOX360 or PS3, but it *may* make a difference in how many people own a Revolution alongside their other next-gen console.
My sig is too lon
With the DS Nintendo have officially stopped playing Sony/Microsoft's game. They can clearly see that games are being put in a box now with nothing but graphics improving, so they picked up there ball and started a new game. Sony and Microsoft can stay with the graphics grind where as Nintendo will start making some intresting games and change the scene.
Maybe it'll be a hit (like the DS), maybe it'll fail. It's a new direction and a some fresh blood in the old games markets heart. It's not going to hurt Nintendo any if they screw this up because the DS will keep them a float. The cube has a dedicated fanbase (I love mine) which wants to play fun games and graphics don't matter all that much to them. These are the same people who will buy the revolution and love it.
Nintendos job in this "generation" is to try something new, keep their fans happy and forget about Sony and Microsoft. The PSP VS DS "battle" so far has been pretty much 99% in Nintendos favour. Theres a few PSP fans but mostly people have no intrest or are disapointed by their handheld. If it had been GBA Mark 2 VS PSP then the PSP would of won hands down. Yet Nintendo changed the entire game and have so far (Nintendogs being a major part of it) totally owned Sony.
As long as Sony and Microsoft keep throwing thud around about "Hard drive this" and "Media centre" that they'll never beat Nintendo. They may sell more consoles or make more money, but people will only go "ooohhh shiny" so often.
I like muppets.
Sony developed an entirely new CPU architecture for the PS3.
Microsoft went well beyond the current state of the art for desktops: three custom PowerPC cores on one die, running at 3+ GHz.
And honestly, that's where much of the expense is coming from. It's not like SEGA (with the Genesis) or Nintendo (with the SNES or GC or GBA) or even Sony in the days of the PS1 decided to go with custom processors, let alone processors that shoot for the ultra-high end. Consoles have always been about custom hardware for some things, lowish-end commodity parts for everything else.
According to Gaving Carter's Slashdot interview three days ago, gaming companies still consider their biggest cross-platform challenge as "taking the big, grandiose things we set out to do and get them to work like they're supposed to".
But that's if we were talking about reduced hardware benefits. What Nintendo is doing is getting rid of the whole hardware capability. It won't be harder to implement a feature, it will be impossible. And not Perl-type impossible, where it just takes a couple of extra seconds to implement, but the real impossible.
And this is coming from a hardcore Nintendo fan. I've been playing Nintendo since I was five years old, and I've actually been inside Nintendo's corporate headquarters in Kyodo, Japan (don't tell the police).
I think Nintendo has a lot to compete against. You need to come out with something great or they're going to lose a lot more market share.
[%] Cingular Ringtones
I think HDTV gameplaying may happen at a slower rate than HDTV adoption. In our house the game system (a gamecube) is relegated to the den on a second TV. When we get a big HDTV its going in the family room and I'm not going to let the kids usurp this TV all day to play games. While this comment clearly puts me in the "video games are for kids" camp, I still think this is the predominant demographic. There's a market for adult game playing and it's growing and I'm sure there is money to be made there, but I still think alot of game systems get relegated to secondary TVs in other rooms. In other words this market is maturing and fragmenting into different niches.
I could care less about HD support as long as it supports progressive scan and widescreen.
Select N64 games all the way back to Goldeneye have supported 16:9 display mode, and Metroid Prime for GameCube can do 480p on compatible TVs and compatible GameCube systems.
Nintendo has kept a lot of info about the Revolution under tight security for some time. One of their most closely guarded secrets has been the design of the controllers. That's been revealed here:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000077059062/
Basically, its looks like a TV remote with a D-Pad and some buttons, but looks can be deceiving. The controller has 3D Directional Recognition meaning that you can point it at the screen and the game will know what you are pointing at, and it will be Tilt Sensitive. A port on the back of the controller will allow users to add a separate analog stick and buttons with Rumble features. The whole thing will be wireless and rechargable. This thing is pretty new and innovative and it will be interesting to see what sort of games they can make that works with a controller like this.
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
thezorch@gmail.com
http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
I'm buying a revolution simply because Mario and Zelda are two of the best series I've ever played... I would pay $200 just for the new zelda coming out on the gamecube.
Progressive Scan does not get you ANYTHING at all unless you have a TV that can play that progressivly scanned DVD.
Some monitors support progressive scan but do not support the higher frequencies of HDTV.
So you see, your clamoring for progressive scan and not caring about HD support doesn't really make any sense, as they are one in the same.
When contrasted with "high definition", "progressive scan" usually means "enhanced definition" or 480p. "High definition" is usually 720p or 1080i.
" It would be stupid to think that they'd go below what the GCN already supports"
g amecube/component_faq.jsp
the GCN doesn't support 480p. Atleast the newer ones. one of my friends had to buy a buddies older GC because the one he bought they removed the Highdef.
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/nintendo
The Digital A/V Output port was removed from systems produced after May, 2004 (these systems will have a model number of DOL-101). If you have a Nintendo GameCube without this port, and you wish to play your games in progressive scan, you may be able to obtain a system that was made prior to the removal of the Digital A/V Output port. Please call our Consumer Service department at 1-800-255-3700 to discuss available options.
no 480P for revolution
The gamecube and the xbox sold about the same. Xbox did better in north america, GC did better in japan. Both got bent over by the ps2.
An 8 year old doesn't care about HD (High Definition as opposed to Hard Drive as some posts didn't read the actual article) at all. If fact, there isn't one friend of my teenagers whom cares one bit if a show is in HD or not! None of the individuals I work with care and nor do any of my relatives.
HD is not a technology being pushed by the end user in any real commercial way. The "masses" aren't shouting for it in any country anywhere. Instead it is a technology being pushed by the U.S. and the companies which stand to profit from new hardware sales.
Hardware hasn't mattered for a long time in this market. Positioning and sales have been based on marketing and software saturation. If you market a product properly it can beat out a better competitive product. It happens all the time! Add in a better selection, in the case of consoles, of games and you will end up with a larger market share.
The Revolution (a.k.a whatever they really end up calling it) won't in the end suffer from not having HD except for in a very few cases. Where it will suffer is strictly in the area of poor marketing and game titles. If they can avoid those 2 pitfalls, which they have managed to walk right into blindly for a while now, their new console should be much more of a mover and a shaker in the next console war.
most people are saying the reason it's not hd capable is because they are not even using a tv with this thing. perhaps a visor ala "On" or a steroscopic projection which many are also saying. i do believe they certainly have a trick up there sleave, why else would we not have seen ANY screen shots of any games that will be releasing in under 7 months. it just doesn't make sense. i'll tell you y, it's cuz the don't microsoft or sony to copy them and make a similar peripheral. i'm telling ya that the controller was and is not the BIG secret.
OK Nintendo. There is NO reason not to support High Definition. Zero. The rumored hardware should handle it easily. It's seems like Nintendo is chosing not to support it just so they can say " Hey look, no fancy buzzwords here grandma!"
;p) but I won't be buying a Revolution, at least for a while due to the lack of HD support. I simply cannot go back to NTSC 480i hell.
:-( I cannot stress enough how bad a 480i signal looks on an HDTV. And if it ends up supporting 480p, while an improvment, just isn't enough.
However, for many people who own an HDTV, not supporting is going to be the reason I don't get it. Let me elaborate...
I bought a nice 51" Sony WEGA about 5 months ago. It's rear projection, but for $1600 I got 480i, 480p, *real* 720p, and 1080i support, and every connector imaginable up to HDMI.
HD shows looked fantastic! Watching Baseball, football, and shows like LOST has been totally great. You know what hasn't been great?
Games.
Iv'e tried using my PS2 (with component cables) as well as my xbox (also with component cables) and not couting GranTurismo 4's "1080i mode" (which appears to be some kind of upscan trick) everything is in 480p, which, while still better than 480i, still looks *horrible* on an HD set. I gave up playing games on this set and moved my consoles to the 27" TV in the bedroom.
So I had a great TV that I couldn't really game on. But only for 11 more days. Iv'e had an Xbox 360 on preorder for a while. ALL titles support *at least* 720p (1280x720) and some may support 1080i (1920x1080)! This will make full use of my TV's capabilities, and will look absolutely stunning.
That being said, I do like Nintendo. Iv'e owned ALL of thier consoles and handhelds (including the VirtualBoy
For those that say HDTV's aren't that prevailant now, i'd say they are a LOT more common than even just a year or so ago, and with more and more HD programming coming, and (relativly) cheap prices compared to the past (a decent 27" set can be had arount $500 if you look around), HD set's should sell like mad this Christmas and next, in part fueled by the Xbox 360 and the upcoming PS3!
By not even having HD as an option, Nintendo may come off to many as not being a "serious" console with staying power. As more and more people pick up HD sets, the more and more people won't be buying a Revolution. And it seems that's where they want to be. The "non-scary buzzword your grandma can play it" system. But, they are turning away the people that grew up with the NES, in exchange for the non-techie gaming newcomer. I want to support Nintendo, but the lack of vision in not supporting some form of HD is a killer for me
- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
So, up to now we know that the hardware won't be up to par, and the controller will be a bit odd... Nintenfans' defense is that it's all about the games, yo! Well... where are the games? Isn't this machine supposed to be out next summer? And they don't have any games in good enough shape to demo yet? Have they at the very least released a list of publishers and games that are planned for the console? I'm just not sure what there is to get excited about.
Metroid Prime at 480p looks pretty darn good, GT4 for the PS2 at 1080i is ok, Halo at 480p is probably the worst out of these three examples. When you are 18" from the monitor, high resolution is important. When you're sitting 8' away from your 48" TV, higher resolutions aren't as ground breaking.
I think Nintendo will do just fine, as long as they support 16:9 mode. BTW, game developers, if you offer split mode game play, make use of the 16:9 screen and let me split the screen side by side instead of just top/bottom.
What, me worry?
This is what it really breaks down to for me:
There is the Xbox 360, which brags about it's HDD support but does not make the HDD a standard option. How many 3rd party devs are going to support a peripheral that maybe a third or less of the market has? Obviously some will, but most won't bother. Plus, it's Microsoft, and they just piss me off.
Then there's the Playstation 3. Made by Sony, a company who installs rootkits on people's PC's, settles for poorly manufactured digicam CCD's, and has generally been riding their name for the past 3 years or so (Hey, we're Sony! People will buy our crap regardless of how craptastic it is!). Sony pisses me off.
Last but not least, we have the Nintendo Revolution, which is not only the least expensive of the three, but is likely to bring about a wave of excellent new gameplay styles with their innovative new controller format (btw, for those who still complain and want their old-style controllers, Nintendo is making one). Most importantly, Nintendo hasn't done anything to piss me off lately.
Disclaimer: If a really good new Ratchet and Clank game comes out for it...I might end up with a PS3 anyway. Damn that addictive Lombax!
The Russian Mafia will mod you down just to see if the Moderate button works.
A little background on me, I am a PC game to the end. That being said I did get started on Nintendo. They completely lost me when they went to the N64. I have played PS and PS2, and was never really interested in XBOX. I have to admit that I am really curious about the revolution. The thing that will sell me on it, is how well the controler works. I am personally tired of playing the same game with new shiny graphics. I still go back and play old pc games and console game, I can forgive non modern graphics if the game is fun. The revoution could allow for completely new ways to play games. Not to mention that after playing FPS on computer I can't stand to play them on console. Again the Revoltion could change that. If shiny graphics are important to you and you are willing to shell out for an HD TV, then I am sure you will be willing to shell out for a PS3 or XBOX360. Anymore it seems like most games come out for PC PS and XBOX, so I don't feel the need to spend more money to get those consoles. The revolution is a wild card. It will all depend on there games.
IMHO
Which really seems right insane to me (in Microsoft's case). It just seems like Microsoft wanted to put in lots of big numbers. Sony wants to push Cell through the door, and they wanted a whole lot of computing power. Sony's architecture has always favoured lots of number crunching, as traditionally, their GPU's have been fairly weak or non-existant. Making the CPU required for graphics work. This time, they actually do seem to have included a powerful GPU, making one wonder why they need that much computing power?
Microsoft just seems interested in competing with Sony on every front, regardless of reason.
Nintendo, doesn't see a point in having that much computing power when a GPU is far more useful in an actual game. As a result, they have much less computing power than either Microsoft or Sony, but they seem to have a more powerful GPU than either of them, judging from leaked specs. The leaked specs also indicate a PPU (Physics Processing Unit), which could be used to offload a LOT of work from the CPU, keeping Nintendo on par with the others at a much cheaper price.
Once again, Nintendo is using efficiency to combat their foes. And it's always worked for them in the past. Make no mistake. Nintendo are the MASTERS at hardware design. Seriously, take a look at their consoles sometime. N64 is about the single exception to their mastery. (N64 was an absolute nightmare to code for, as Nintendo wanted to keep smaller developers off the console to increase the quality of games overall. They've eradicated that policy since then, and their consoles are the easiest to code for now).
When one visits Nintendo, it's like visiting a relatively small company that does stuff like collect cloisonne plates for the walls, and everyone seems to know everyone else. Microsoft is like visiting a big business. Sony is like visiting a big business at war with itself. Somehow, the Nintendo consoles and games seem to reflect this difference. I don't know how it spills over to the games, since they're made by third parties, but the general environment seems to work quite well for them. The games seem to work at any scale.
Both Sony and Microsoft are buying their chips of IBM, and they are not even close to state of the art (except probably power consumption). This is just the first time such large multi-core chips have been put in a consumer device, and because of their unique design they will be significantly harder to program for, so don't expect many cutting edge games in the first year.
========
CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
I'm amazed that so many people are chiming in to insist that the term "HD" means "Hard Disk Drive". One post asserts that "HD in this article meant Hard Disc, not Hi-Definition". I don't think the term "HD" even appears in the article and if you read the sentence before the first use of the term "HD" in the summary you can be in no doubt as to what it means. How little do you need to read in order to make that mistake? I know, this is Slashdot. RTFA isn't even approprate in these cases, tho - more like F***ing Read Something!
:-)
Or is this some kind of brain-melting troll style that I'm not familiar with?
To get on-topic, I reckon that Nintendo are on a pretty safe bet in leaving out HDTV support; it's a long way from being standard here in Europe, at least, and still has to overcome some content delivery hurdles (DRM lobbying and implementation and its nett cost to the customer) before it'll be seriously considered by a public that are still paying off their lower-res widescreen TVs. AFAIK there's a sort of countdown to the time everyone must use a digital decoder to view TV (at least, in some countries); people won't like being forced to fork out again for new hardware, especially if they expect it to cost them more to run than their current setup. Of course, if they're given no choice, they'll do it...
Sorry, drifting off-topic again
Meryl Lynch reported that the Xbox 360 could be as low as $250 this spring and MS would still make a profit.
Doesn't mean it will. The goal of a for-profit corporation is not just to make profit but to maximize profit. Remember that Microsoft is using artificial scarcity to hype up its console in order to keep a 300-400 USD price point for a long time.
Think that not supporting HDTV output will have two benefits.
1) Reduction in console cost for Nintendo (and hopefully the customer) at the cost of a feature that very few people actually use. I'm sure the percentage of the population that own an HDTV is small ( less than 5%). The percentage of HDTV owners who are interested in the revolution but won't buy one because of its lack of HDTV output is even smaller. Not to mention that the Revolution isn't targeted at your typical HDTV owner, it's targeted at families who may not want to dump out $2000 for a TV for the kids.
2) Game development costs go down. Microsoft requiring all games to be HDTV ready is going to increase development costs. Since there is no such thing with the Revolution, hopefully that will result in a lower standard MSRP (I believe both Sony and Microsoft have said they want to raise game prices).
Oh, a lesson in history from Mr. I'm my own grandpa.
Just wanted to point out that they've stated countless times they dont specifically target any gaming audience. They make their systems for EVERYONE to play. Young and Old. The original NES was never made for kids, it was made for everyone. And it worked. I remember spending days playing MegaMan with my friend and his dad. The whole 'Nintendo is for kids' is such an ignorant statement, you can easily tell who the uninformed gamers are. Anyone who has any inkling of gaming history knows that Nintendo is for everyone. If games appear to be more simple, or less violent, it isn't just for the kids, its for the people who are actually MATURE enough to not need this stuff to make a game great.
Really, there are so many ignorant people out there. I'm glad you got marked troll, because thats exactly what you are doing. Nintendo has always said they make their games for everyone. Mature people dont need edgy violence and crap to make fun games. They just make good gameplay. If good gameplay isnt enough for you, then you should probably not be buying games to begin with.
Well, given Sony's recent behavior, and Microsoft's continuous behavior, it's a no brainer that I'm getting a Nintendo.
Evolution is a fact. Darwinism is a joke.
You won't be playing your emulation games after you're forced to update your PSP to 2.0+ to play GTA. Nice try though.
It is most likely that I will buy a Revolution towards the end of next year.
/family/, maybe the console will be in another room on another display that is unlikely to be HD for a long time. But what about the 25-35 market of men and their expensive toys? I'm sure a reasonable amount of them would have considered a Revolution for the fun games it'll have, but if they will look like blocky turd on their >35" HDTV ...
I don't have a HDTV currently, but I will probably buy one within 2 years. It'd be a shame if I couldn't play, e.g., Mario Kart Revolution, in high resolution on the TV with other people. I assume that it'd still be capable of 480p however, so it is some kind of improvement over 480i currently.
Is the graphics hardware really so weak that it can't handle 1280x720p? Hell, how about 640x720p? Or is it merely the console's outputs?
Of course, for the average
Merrill Lynch aren't journalists, they aren't a video game company. They aren't Microsoft. They aren't Sony. They aren't accountable to anyone. They're analysts. They guess. If they're wrong, there are no consequences to them.
Merrill Lynch also seems to make awfully consistent guesses about the next generation, specifically: Whatever is good for Microsoft. The persistent claims in the last several months that the Playstation 3 will cost exorbant amounts of money also, if you follow sources, inevitably stem from guesses by Merrill Lynch. Contrast this with Merrill Lynch's guesses in 1999, which predicted the ps2 would sell for well more than it ever did.
Other recent winning predictions by analysts about the video game industry have been that the PSP would be a smash success and knock the Nintendo DS and Game Boy outside of the market (it's outsold neither); that Nintendo would die every year for the last five; that Apple would die every year for the five before that; that Nintendo DS online would launch with free VOIP; and that the PS3 will launch in 2007.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Nintendo is running in the ballpark of a 4-5 year console turnaround. The next console after Revolution won't hit the market until well after 2010.
By early '06 Dish Network and DirectTV will be offering over 100 HD channels. Digital cable companies will not be far behind due to the constant battle going on in that industry. HDTV's are dropping like rocks in price. These will be the standard within 2 years.
Nintendo could be a 'niche' console if they stray too far from Nintendo and Sony. Why? There are still a ton of games made for all 3 consoles and many of these companies may choose to stop supporting Nintendo. Making a game for the 360 and PS3 will be easy (support the same technoligies and relatively the same power), but Revolution will be drastically different and may not be worth the price.
How am I supposed to justify buying an HDTV that makes all my current videos and movies look like crap?
Seriously, HD is neat, but it's not exactly a required feature for video games.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Frankly, when games are so damn fun, the only way I could give a damn about the graphics is if make my eyes FUCKING BLEED or if it has below 20 FPS. Shit dude, that's a nice TV but meh? I'm sorry you feel HD is so important that you'd shun Nintendo despite apparently enjoying their games.
So, go get the X360 or PS3. Enjoy your shiny, crisp graphics from games you've already played. Generic FPS on the X360? YAY. Shiny car simulator on the PS3? YAY. Hopefully, I'll be playing Mario Kart 64 with decent framerates online.
The whole 'Nintendo is for kids' is such an ignorant statement, you can easily tell who the uninformed gamers are.
thats fine. Deny that the Gamecube is marketed towards kids. Go ahead! Deny it!
Now lets look at the amount of games that have a mature rating on the gamecube vs. ps2 and xbox.
Come back when you're done.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Bandwagon: "Our system will let you lay next-generation High Definition movies via HD-DVD/Blu-Ray."
Nintendo: "That was pretty impressive when we had those little full-motion video clips in Lethal Enforcers for SNES, wasn't it?"
Bandwagon: "Our games will come on CD-ROM/GD-ROM/DVD-ROM/Blu-Ray discs."
Nintendo: "Cartridges are the wave of the future!"
Bandwagon: "Our systems will output in high definition"
Nintendo: "NTSC is the wave of the future!"
Bandwagon: "Our new game controller is the best design yet with 8 shoulder buttons, two analog pads, and 12 awkward little buttons at the bottom (*cough* Jaguar *cough*)"
Nintendo: "Check out our remote control, it's so retro! Wave it through the air and it senses motion! Now everyone will get tennis elbow and dislocated shoulders instead of carpal tunnel syndrome and repetitive stress injuries!"
Bandwagon: "The gamers who owned our last-generation system are now 3 years older, so our games should be more mature, violent, profane, and sexy."
Nintendo: "Bright colors, furry creatures, and Super Mario never go out of style!"
Bandwagon: "Games make the system, and third-party companies make games. Let's embrace third-party developers."
Nintendo: "Games don't make the system, silly. OUR games make the system!"
Am I the only one confused by the fact that the Gamecube supported HD, but the "next-gen" console does not? That seems like a strange move for Nintendo, IMO.
I think it's a safe bet that it's not a good idea(business-wise) to to bring a feature-light product to market while your competitors are driving technology forward. I think it's also a safe bet to assume that both Microsoft and Sony will have very playable and fun games that load quickly. Not all of their titles will be the of the uber high res, shockingly immersive variety. The only thing that Nintendo is doing is ensuring they cannot compete in that area. While their competitors can easily compete(and win) at their game. The only thing that can save this companies console business is marketing. And good luck competing with Microsoft at that... They've been selling inferior operating systems for years on nothing but marketing.
... what did you expect, something profound?
720p projectors are becoming affordable, and 480 lines just aren't enough for a 90" screen.
Just because a game doesn't have a mature rating doesn't mean it is targeted at children, does a game that is enjoyable for adults have to have blood and gore or other things that will earn a mature rating? The answer to that is a clear no!
In the drops - An Aussie's musings on all things cycling
You threw up so much techno-jargon, I almost forgot your point. But with all the cash you have to blow on the latest and greatest, I think you'll be in Best Buy (or whatever upscale tech store you go to) shopping for a new Xbox 360 or PS3 game and look over at the Revolution and go "Why not?" and buy it anyway.
Then it will go into the 27" TV in the bedroom and you'll amuse yourself playing Nintendo's back catalog on their newest system.
And as the slashdot crowd says, Nintendo profits!
I wonder whether that is really true. In fact I would say it is the opposite, since most of the other game consoles show off the "how many people can we kill" type games. Nintendogs as an example is actually a game that has actually brought a number of non-gamers into the fold.
Most of the other platforms seem to be sticking to what they know and are not really trying much that is new, if at all. What they are parading is more performant systems, $$$$ network play and a hard-disk. While I do feel that the revolution could have benefitted from an HD, especially for MMORPGS, I would be curious to see why they decided not to go with one. The Revolution actually has two USB 2.0 sockets which could actually be a better solution for expansion. This would potentially allow you to plug in any HD, or solid state storage, you want and not be limited by want the manufacturer forces upon you.
The truth is the market has already shown that what we thought was true may not be true tomorrow. I would like to see Nintendo do well because of their innovations and encouraging people to play different. At the same time the other platforms certainly have the macho type "bigger is better" approach. What will make the difference is marketing and what games come out. Nintendo already said in the past the many people buy their console because of one game, and it would seem that other companies recognise this in ensuring they have exclusive games for their platform.
For me everybody has got a running chance. All we have up to now is vapour, and only time will tell which system is the best. I'll buy the platform with the games that suit my tastes best.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I'm 18, and I've only recently just bought my first TV, its a 28", flat, Sony Widescreen. I got it second hand, £200. I don't plan on buying a HD Tv, high res doesn't bother me. I'm curious to know how old people are when they buy their first TV.
Also there's no need to go on about Nintendo not showing anything. Look at Sony, how many FMVs they show for a preview then the game turns out to be totally different. I'm sure adults who are into gadgets will buy a hd tv, but kids won't.
I was going to buy a PlayStation 3, but I'm afraid the games will come infected with DRM like the sony music discs. I can't run the risk of a company telling me I can only play the games I bought on the console in my house a set number of times before the disc expires. Even worse would be if the PS3 left my home stereo system infected with DRM.
So, I guess I better start getting excited about the new nintendo console.
So why would I even want to consider paying for a cable subscription?
Because in order to get residential broadband, you have to have either landline voice service or cable TV from the incumbent carrier.
I'nm thinking about getting a Playstation 2 because ... it runs Linux
Linux (for PlayStation®2) does not run on the slimline PlayStation 2 console, which has no official way to connect a hard drive. Or did you plan on buying a used original PlayStation 2 console?
Everybody was crapping on about load times being a factor - never mind that you could load the equivalent of an entire 8 megabit cart in a couple of seconds from CD (and then use it for streaming CD quality audio) :) Sure the PS1 had load times, but at least you could fit some amount of media into the games...
Un-necessarily limiting storage was a shitty idea then too. No HD in 2006 is a shitty idea now. No HD = no virtual memory = less ability for persistent worlds, etc... :)
Cheapest system? Wasn't the game-cube the cheapest current gen system? What's that? It flopped?
Revolutionary controller? Like the Powerglove then? :D
Realistically, I'm probably not going to buy any of the next gen consoles - I've moved on to other things these days, but I still find the same old arguments Nintendo is trying to push quite amusing :)
The sooner nintendo "pull their head out of their ass" so to speak, and provide a system without the deliberate crippling intended for nintendo to try and maintain control over it's content, the better, imho :)
As Ballmer loves to say, "developers!" - if it costs them heaps to develop for Nintendo, they won't risk it without a decently large installed userbase. Without developers to make games, they won't get one...
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Which nobody has answered yet, even though it's in the open.
Prepping a game for HD, means way more detailed models/backgrounds/whatever. Easy. Nintendo is rejecting this for several reasons, 2 reasons are public, and one reason is my personal speculation.
Confirmed ones first.
#1. Not needing the ultra detailed models will keep development costs down, keeping prices lower and profits higher. Seems reasonable for a business.
#2. The HD models will require additional loading time. Nintendo is trying to keep loading time at a minimum. Again, very reasonable. Now, how much of an advantage this will be, we'll need to see next-gen loading times of course. But it's a wait and see thing.
And my speculation, considering the Ars Technica article on potential Revolution specs.
#3. Using system memory in resources for HD, the Revolution just isn't designed for. The system is designed to maximize non-graphical computations, making for better AI and physics. Personally, when it comes to gaming I'm more than willing to take a graphics hit for better AI and physics.
This was scored informative, this however, says otherwise. They weren't actual GAME demos, they were just silly tech demos, and the metroid prime thing was just another tech demo. I'm excited for the Revolution and all but those don't count as games.
With the sloppy coding that goes on in game programming most of the clocks are wasted already. Today there is no need for more house power. Nintendo is about to change the way we play video games just as N64 was a change from 2D system, Revolution will be a bigger change. Ten seconds with the controller and you'll know the world has changed - forever. And the contoller is just a sign that things have changed. Expect to see a different world of games from Nintendo. No more just side scrollers and FPS.
...people already associate Nintendo with lower cost and better games so I don't see how it can backfire unless they actually fail to get developers to produce good games.
We already know what the Nintendo Revolution's game lineup is going to be:
Plus Madden 2006, NBA 2006, and NHL 2006. The titles might be slightly different, but I'm pretty sure that'll be the game library.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I've seen some great arguements against nintendo's system, but all the ones modded up have been pro-nintendo or anti-sony/microsoft. Very much like apple posts. Everyone says the same thing and all get modded up for it. "Nintendo's not just for kids," "new games suck only nintendo can innovate," "you don't need fancy features, just a barebones game system," etc. There are great arguements against these, but no one seems interested.
Is this gaming experience worth the combined investments of the console plus the game? That's a system-seller.
For my, I bought an Xbox for Jet Set Radio Future. I loved JSR on the Dreamcast (although it wasn't a system seller for me there), and I was really looking forward to playing the crap out of its sequel. So for me, the cost of JSRF was around 400$ -- 300$ for the Xbox, 70$ for the game, and taxes.
Compare this to people like Zonk who talk about upgrading their PC to play a new game, like getting a 700$ US 7800GT for FEAR. It's the same idea, it's just that in the console world, you don't rebuy the same console within a window of a certain number of years (otherwise you pull a Sega and put out too many things at the same time), and you can be sure that the games will run reasonably well (Doom 3 on Xbox = sexy).
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
not if you are getting Qwest DSL
How much did it cost to move to a geographic area whose ILEC is Qwest? Or if you were born and raised there, what solution do you propose for people who were born and raised in areas where the ILEC ties its DSL Internet access to its POTS?
Actually, according to the ESA you are part of the minority, as more than 60% of video game players are over 18 years old.
http://hughgordon.com/
Why bother with High Definition if the console isn't going to center around the TV? Nintendo has never said that the TV will be the axis of which the console revolves around (like previous consoles). Have they ever shown the Revolution playing on a TV? Did you see a TV in the TGS controller video?
Start trying to think like Nintendo. It is not named codenamed Revolution just because of the controller. Here are some quotes:
"I think maybe if I could do anything, I would make it so you don't have to sit in front of a TV and play. If you could have a machine that you just plugged in and played inside a virtual world that - would be just great." Source: Miyamoto in Game Informer p. 50 issue 109.
"We plan on taking advantage of a number of new features in the Revolution, including the controller," Retro Studio's Metroid Prime 3 interview. http://cube.ign.com/articles/638/638879p1.html
"Obviously there's so much that we haven't said about Revolution,..." Post TGS comment by Beth Llewelyn http://cube.ign.com/articles/659/659020p1.html
"Sitting in front of your monitor with a controller, there's really nowhere to go from that paradigm, all you can do is make it prettier and faster,". -Miyamoto
"I could give you our technical specs, as I'd know you'd like that, but I won't for a simple reason: they really don't matter. The time when horsepower alone made all the difference is over. -Iwata
"We invented the current way a console is played - in front of a television and holding a controller - but maybe that image will change."-Iwata
Nintendo did something really brilliant by going with ATI for the graphics in their system (Sony used nvidia right??) by having the same GPU as their competitors they encourage cross compatibility.
And as any PC gamer can tell you, games are NOT limited by CPU.
Plus isn't Nintendo supposed to be really easy to program for?
When you grow up and stop wetting your diapers and buy a house and all that, you want games that you can enjoy with your spouse. Gaming is such a solitary activity, and dumping 2 hours a night into a game to finish it isn't in. I hope that the new Nintendo system has some revolutionary games that everyone can enjoy. I like the idea of the new controller, it promises a whole new genre of games that havn't been thought up yet. If you're a pimply teenager first-person shooters and RPGs are fun, you can spend hours a day in your parents basement playing against other pimply losers online. I want a game I can pick up and be playing in seconds, not 5 minutes. I want a game my wife can enjoy along with me.
So you've stated a case that HD is important... for you. Because you shelled out the big bucks on an HD set. *applause*
HD isn't a factor in the game purchases I make today. I don't have an HD set, but I am planning on buying one prior to the Revolution's and the PS3's launch. However, I will still buy a Revolution before either the PS3 or the X360. I am not a Nintendo "fanboy" either. I simply make my purchases (not just video game stuff) based upon who has the more interesting product.
So far Nintendo sounds like they are doing the unique thing. I want to support that line of thinking. If the new controller is a miss for them, the machine still has GC controller ports, I'm sure there will be "regular" games, it runs GC games, you can download their back library... it is still a far more flexible machine and far more intriguing machine to me.
I want a game console that at the very least promises to try and go above and beyond "Oo, pretty things." The Nintendo Revolution has done a far better job of that inspite of it lacking HD output.
No sig for you!!
I am currently in a game development class taught by an EA lead developer, and one of the things he has taken pains to show us is ways to handle multiplatform programming without hugely increasing the time and effort spent making the game multiplatform. While, of course, there are certain hurdles to multiplatform development, it's not clear that in order to manage it, the companies need to ignore the advantages of the various platforms.
Sony is being a jackass with their 'let developers do whatever the fuck they want with their online models and leave the bullshit sorting to the gamers.' Throw in their hardware pissing contest with Microsoft and their recent DRM attempt, and you've got a VERY angry geek community.
Microsoft is the natural enemy of Slashdot. Throw in the Joe Average confusing Xbox360 packages, the recently announced artifical shortage and the fact that its really nothing more than a graphical upgrade in terms of gaming potential and you can see why gamers don't like the Xbox360.
Nintendo is being a weirdo (as always) with their controller and are refusing to play the hardware game, but other than that they're doing nothing to piss people off. On top of that, Nintendo is being the only innovator here (better graphics does not make innovation), is foregoing plugging into a router and going straight to wireless Wi-Fi (read: major geek points), and is now saying 'on top of all this, we're gonna have the cheapest price!'
Having worked for Electronic Arts on a next-gen title, I don't think HD will play a large role for this generation of consoles, especially during the first 3-5 years. The Xbox 360 Devkit, which was a PowerMac G5 with the M$ dev software installed, touted a lot of power, but our game brought it to its electronic knees.
Consider textures. There is a lot of talk about dynamic lighting for next-gen consoles. Say you want to use normal maps. Now you go from one texture map to 3 or 4 (the base texture map, the normal map, possibly a specular map, and maybe a depth map). That will result in a 3-4X increase in texture space. And that is not even considering that you would probably want to up-rez the textures. Heck, you would need to up-rez to support HD. So you double the resolution. You now have a 4X increase in the size of each texture. Not looking good.
There are things that can be done to save some of this space, such as folding different texture types into one texture by being cleaver with how you use the RGBA channels. Still, it will be on average a 4-6X increase in overall texture space. Processor speed and memory aside, how to you pull that data in from disk fast enough? Your code it going to have to get really smart to do the kinds of predictive loading/unloading it needs to do to get those textures where they need to be at exactly the right time (otherwise you quickly run out of texture memory).
From just this simple example concerning one area of game production, the problems caused by HD are many. You also have to render more screen space at higher densities. HD is just flat out computationally expensive. It is expensive for the productions since artwork has to be developed to support HD resolutions. That impacts production pipelines because the datasize has increased. It just keeps going. How many developers do you think will flock to HD when the problems it causes are large and the financial gains are small?
And that is the rub. It is going to take developers 2-4 years just to get down the basics of making next-gen games. Until then, you are going to see a lot of ports. That is exactly what I was working on. Taking an existing game, art content and all, and porting it to Xbox 360. We worked to up-rez textures. We had to change completely how characters got modeled because we wanted lots of photo real char stuff that doesn't mesh well with current methods for modeling. Games involve lots of "cheats" in both tech and art. Many of those "cheats" are incompatible with next-gen content creation.
So Nintendo made the right choice. While Sony (who none of us should be considering buying from) and Microsoft (ditto) chase after the bleeding edge of tech, Nintendo will trail a short way behind making games the other 90% of the world might enjoy. I love my WoW as much as the next geek, but that experience does not minimize what Nintendo continues to do for the gaming world. It brings in new customers. That can only be good for all of us.
--kev
So, really, if they are wrong (bad analysis), there are indeed consequences for them (they get fired).
I'm not saying this means they know what they are talking about, but rather that it is highly likely they are performing serious analysis and not just pulling these numbers and theories out of their arse. . .