Impressions From A Second Shipment 360 Owner

I try to look for the best in every situation. In the grand scheme of things, getting bumped from the first shipment of pre-ordered Xbox 360s to the second wasn't the end of the world. Indeed, it allowed me to focus on launch news and information, posting stories for the games page and absorbing the mood of early adopters. The reports that came back were mixed, with occasional technical difficulties and tepid gameplay marring the first next-gen launch. Overall though, gamers seemed to be pleased with their purchases. When my local game store called to let me know my console was in, I bit the bullet and swiped the plastic. Today I have for you a rundown on what it's like to go where others have gone before. Read on for my impressions of the Xbox 360 experience after a month of retail sales and a week of gameplay. While I don't feel the need to bore you with pictures of the packaging, the out-of-the-box experience is attractive and intuitive. It only took a few moments to set things up before I was working with the setup wizard. As per the copious recommendations across the internet, I made sure that the console's power brick was not on the carpet once the system was in place. The bottom of my entertainment center has wire shelving, and the free flow of air around the brick has so far allowed my 360 to be glitch-free. It is, unfortunately, as large as everyone says it is. Pulling the massive thing out of the box, I had a flash of a bad bumper-sticker: "My second console is my 360 power brick." The cables are all surprisingly lengthy, with a nice long piece of cat5 cable making the trip to my router with more slack than the one I was using for my Xbox. One important consideration: If you're fortunate enough to be using your console with an HDTV, make sure and flip the switch on the component cable before you start up the console. It's set by default to 'TV', and if you want to experience the HD signal right away you're going to want that switch flipped. With everything plugged in and set properly I hit the large central button on the controller, and the console whirred to life.

The setup wizard asked for little more than the time zone and my Passport account. The Live account I had with the Xbox was still in good standing, putting me into the 'gold' version of the Live system. This apparently allows me the opportunity to get to some additional content, and make use of the Trueskill ranking system we reported on a while back. The only annoying part of the setup was the grueling process of entering my email address and password. Selecting letters from an on-screen keyboard seems like a good idea until you start entering your 32-character-long email address. As a final touch I was asked my preferences for controls in FPS and Driving titles. I don't know why, but I like inverted look on console games. It just works better for me. By entering the setting on my Live account, every FPS I play on the 360 will use that setting by default.

Setup completed, I had my first look at the 360 'blade' system. The interface for the console is a series of screens arranged in an interlocking pattern of tabs, or blades. Flipping between the different screens is as easy as moving the thumbstick. It's a remarkably intuitive and clean interface, and really hits home the 'next-gen' feel of the console. First thing, I hopped into the Live Marketplace and purchased some Microsoft Points. As much as I was looking forward to playing Call of Duty 2 and King Kong, I'd heard such good things about the downloadable game experience that I wanted to check them out right away. I also wanted to snag the Penny Arcade Skins and gamer portraits. These games and downloadables were purchased with the Points, which are Microsoft's way of putting an additional step between users and their credit cards. Parents who don't want their kids racking up bills via Live can purchase pre-paid Point cards in stores, ala the time cards for a MMOG. You can also buy them directly through Live if you have a credit card on file. They sound like more of a deal than they are, unfortunately. Game downloads range from about 400 to about 800 Points, and right now Live is offering 1000 Points for $12.50 (or $.05 for four points). You can buy about three games then, give or take, for $25.00. A steal compared to most console titles, but not as inexpensive as you might like. Theme packs that re-skin your blades run about 150 Points, and packs of icons for your GamerTag are about 50 Points. There are exceptions, of course. The Penny Arcade icon packs each have several icons to choose from, and cost 200 Points. Expensive, but Mr. Period was worth the $2.50.

The downloadable games are wide-ranging in playstyle, and offer something for just about everyone. Classic titles like SmashTV, and Joust sit beside modern hits like Zuma and Bejeweled. There are also brand new and indie titles, like Geometry Wars Retro Evolved and Wik: Fable of Souls. The console also comes with a shiny puzzle game already unlocked for you, called Hexic. Hexic has you rotating groups of three colored blocks, seeking to make groups of same-colored shapes. It's not the most brilliant puzzler ever, but it is good looking and is something to kill time with if you're not interested in downloading anything. Which would be a shame, because all of the games in the Live Marketplace offer up free trials. The cost is the time to download, and the reward is the chance to recall just how badly you played the original Gauntlet. The Live title I've gotten the most enjoyment out of is Geometry Wars Retro Evolved. Originally a simplistic little extra on Project Gotham Racing 2, Geometry Wars has been reinvisioned for the Live Marketplace. It's a beautiful old-school shooter in the style of Asteroids, with a lot of attitude. There are over a dozen enemy types, several blaster styles, and loads of extremely challenging gameplay. I've accomplished the 'get 100,000 points' Achievement, but only just. Even then, as of this writing I'm number 16,618 on the Geometry Wars leaderboard. Judging by the leaders on the leaderboard, the game is not only challenging but addictive as well.

That Geometry Wars Achievement is one of the easier ones to obtain for that title, most of them centering on surviving for prolonged periods of time. They're somewhat simplistic, given the nature of the game, but every game has their own style of Achievement. Xbox Live Achievements are 'Kilroy was here' moments in games made for the Xbox 360. Every title is required to have some, and it varies from game to game how many there are and how hard it is to obtain them. Call of Duty 2, for example, hands you one for completing Basic Training but then denies you additional kudos until you've beaten large parts of the game. Kameo, on the other hand, gives you an Achievement every time you obtain another Elemental Warrior (which happens relatively frequently). They're viewable through your GamerTag, and are an interesting way to check in and see how far your friend has made it through a given title.

One of the benefits of waiting a month before purchasing my 360 was knowing what games to get and what titles I could safely avoid. With PDZ mostly snagging 8/10s, I decided to pick up Call of Duty 2 instead as my launch-title FPS. Jack Black and Peter Jackson was just too appealing to me to pass up (not to mention the big monkey), so I grabbed King Kong as well. Kameo's colorful visuals and morphing gameplay also seemed very appealing, and I chose that as my third launch title.

Call of Duty 2 (CoD 2) has earned its reputation as the cream of the 360 launch title crop. The game powerfully recaptures the thrill of the original title, placing you in the shoes of a grunt on the Russian, British, or American fronts of World War II. Gameplay is fast-paced and finely honed, with a control scheme that for the first time feels effortless to this PC gamer. The 360 controller, overall, has a wonderful feel to it. It's not even as large as the S-type Xbox controller, and the thumbsticks are incredibly responsive. I've always had some 'user-related issues' playing FPS titles on the console, but the 360 controller feels extremely natural in my hands. Call of Duty 2 makes use of every button on the controller, and the schema feels very intuitive once you've gone through basic training. The game not only plays well, but looks terrific too. I wasn't sure what exactly to expect when I first began playing a 360 title (as still images just don't do next-gen games justice), but I have been extremely impressed. CoD 2 lives, breathes, and clips along at 60 frames per second without blinking. The snowy enivrons of Russia, the ice crusted to the fringe of my commander's longcoat, and the billowing emissions of a smoke grenade all come together to form an immersive experience. If I had to choose a 'best of' element for Call of Duty 2, it would be the AI. German soldiers dive for cover, snipe from afar, and use suppression fire to support their troop movements. Your Russian squad-mates call out enemy positions in simple and understandable terms. They have your back if you run out of ammo, and keep the baddies under cover as you sprint towards your next objective. Call of Duty 2 is easily the finest launch title the 360 has to offer.

The 360 version of King Kong has been in the news recently because of some darkness issues. While it is indeed very dark, on an HD screen the light is more than sufficient to make out the creepy-crawlies coming in your direction. King Kong plays mostly like an action-adventure FPS, with you in the role of writer Jack Driscoll. Driscoll and a motley crew of movie-makers make their way through the creepy enivrons of Skull Island. Originally on the island just for the scenery, the game quickly becomes a race after the giant ape Kong who has stolen leading lady Ann. The primitive environment plays a role in the game's story and gameplay. While ammo is plentiful in some FPS titles, Kong has you relying on periodic supply drops from a low flying plane. Once you're out of ammo, you're reduced to using spears as weapons against the giant centipedes, dinosaurs, and flying harpy-things that plague your every step. Kong has a lot of atmosphere, and even on normal mode is fairly challenging. My biggest complaint with the title is the occasional puzzle element. Doors must be opened via a pair of rotating gate mechanisms, and at various points in the game you're required to find the handle for one or both of these mechanisms. Looking for a small handle in a large outdoor space with variable lighting is, regrettably, not very fun and serves mostly as a way to add time to the game. The 'best of' element is definitely the infrequent sequences where you get to play as Kong. The sheer power he displays, compared to the squishiness of Jack Driscoll, makes for a refreshing change of pace as you progress through the game. Kong is only so-so as FPS titles go, but when at its best it offers some beautiful vistas , scary moments, and "omgdinosaurz" gameplay.

Kameo has gotten a lot of mixed reviews since the 360 launched, and with good reason. On one hand, it has beautiful cartoony graphics. The world evokes a sense of wonder, and the characters that inhabit the various realms are all kind of goofy-looking. On the other hand, it's a violent game with a decent amount of gore. Splattering bugs and plant-monsters tosses a green goo at the screen, which slides down the inside of your television screen. One elemental warrior has a move that impales enemies on his back, and then uses them as thrown weapons. A forgettable plot doesn't help things, either. Kameo was living a fulfilling life as a princess when her sister went black hat and released the evil Troll King. They capture your family and strip you of your powers, and you're off on a crusade to get everything back. There are some amusing story elements that complicate things a bit, like a conniving seer with aspirations of power, but for the most part the game plays out exactly as you'd imagine. You move from place to place in the game world, collecting warriors and freeing your family members. Each Elemental Warrior offers up specific abilities that can be used to circumvent obstacles. The plant-boxer can dive into the ground to move under gates, the dragon-form can light torches with his breath weapon, and the rolling armadillo-guy Major Ruin can use his rush attack to leap chasms. Despite the predictable plot, there is fun to be had, here. Once you have a few warriors under your belt gameplay gets switched up relatively often, requiring you to recognize what form will work best fairly frequently. Combat itself is quick and mostly satisfying, and each warrior has a bevy of upgradable powers to play with. The problem really boils down to who exactly this game is for, though. The graphics say young player, the violence says teenager, and the spine-gratingly annoying 'helper' says functional imbecile. Even halfway through the game your hand is still being held with regard to power use and puzzle-solving, and it gets more than a little annoying sometimes. Kameo is interesting from a uniqueness point of view, but probably isn't worth it unless the art style and morphing premise really appeal to you. Regrettably, they are about all the game has to offer.

My experiences with the 360, even disappointing moments with Kameo, have been overwhelmingly positive. Even while falling to my death because of a wonky camera in Kameo or getting eaten for the fifth time by a giant centipede in King Kong, there's a level of polish to these launch titles that surprised me. I'm not sure I'd agree with J. Allard when he claimed the 360 has the 'best launch lineup ever', but at least the titles that I chose to purchase all have elements worth exploring. The console itself has also surprised me. A slick interface and effortless simple online components make this the first box I've really enjoyed just futzing with. The Marketplace is a powerful selling point, and the games up for offer are well worth looking into. They're constantly adding content as well, ensuring that stopping in at the Live component is almost always a worthwhile sidetrip from whatever game you're playing. Just since the console's launch they've added a Mission Impossible 3 trailer, a Billiards game, and a great PSA from Red vs. Blue. I have been pleasantly surprised by the entire 360 experience, and I might even go so far as to say that I got my money's worth when I purchased the system last week. In these frustrating times of hype and shady customer service, it's hard for me to offer up higher praise than that.

As a final note, you may be interested to know that my Xbox Live GamerTag is 'whoisdialogue'. If you're looking for someone to kick around in CoD multiplayer, I will probably be able to oblige any deep-seated fantasies you may have of shooting a Slashdot editor in the brainpan. See you online.

Update: 12/21 19:55 GMT by Z : Fixed per-point price, because math is hard. Thanks AC.

Comments

But..

[Landak]

The question we all REALLY want to know the answer to is this: How does the xbox 360 power supply brick compare to your electric space heater?

Re:But..

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a 360. This rumour that they are all hot is bullshit. Mine is actually quite cool, compared to any of the PSUs for my laptops. This is stupid Slashdot scaremongering. So a few people got consoles with dodgy RAM and they crash. Big deal, it happens. You ship a few million computers see what happens.

Re:But..

[amuro98]

Except that, it's not a few million consoles, and it's not just a few people.

Online polls have indicated that it could be as high as 1 in 6 consoles having problems. Granted, most people will only answer a poll if they have something negative to say, and it very well could be that 90% of the consoles on the market don't have any problems. Even then, I'd consider a 10% defect rate way too high. That would mean that some 32,000 consoles in the US alone are defective.

Considering that Microsoft cut their initial shipments by so much, I suspect that they're aware there's a problem, and are holding the additional stock to act as replacements for units that will fail in the field.

Re:But..

[Anonymous Coward]

Online polls indicate it could be 1 in 6 having problems, it must be true!! One reason, not to rely on online polls is because jackasses like you input the same negative Microsoft bashing bullshit 300 times. Do you even have a 360? Is yours defective? If not, why do you care? It's also no where near 10% of the consoles that are defective. How about you use your brain and go with a figure such as how many people have returned their Xbox to get the new power supply instead of quoting a figure from a fucking online poll from a site that is known for bashing Microsoft like there's no tomorrow. According to how many people have returned their Xbox to get the new power supply, it's less than 1%. Now, obviously many of them are Christmas presents but I really doubt that the number of defective Xboxes is going to skyrocket by multitudes on Christmas morning.

Have you noticed how this story is barely mentioned anywhere other than geek news site who hate Microsoft? Slashdot first reported it like "XBOXES ALL CRASH MICROSOFT IS TEH SUXOR!!!!one1111eleven", while the rest of the world realized it was only a very miniscule number of Xboxes that were having problems. You probably haven't noticed that though since you're an idiot. Bash Microsoft more while you sit and type replies on your default Windows XP install.

P.S. Fuck you.

Re:But..

[vsprintf]

Have you noticed how this story is barely mentioned anywhere other than geek news site who hate Microsoft?

I saw the story first on CNN. As usual, Slashdot was a little slow on the uptake. Oh, sorry - I didn't mean to step on your rant.

Re:But..

[apoc06]

the x360 crashes have been covered here, cnn, engadget, joystiq, ign, gamespot and all over the rest of the blogosphere. of course, slashdot has also posted stories about the xbox power cord causing household fires as well. i thought you may have had a point for a second, but then i woke up and realized that they have also posted stories about slimline ps2 power cord issues, the sony rootkit... etc etc etc. slashdot is a news site. if youre reading the games section, youre going to read good and bad news about each and every console. get over it. if you only want to read positive articles about the xbox, head over to the teamxbox forums.

...huh? oh, thats right... they were the FIRST to report that the x360 was prone crashing.

last but not least, correct me if im wrong, but according to microsofts's very own pr machine: 10% of x360s are experiencing problems. only 1% have been returned as of yet. since it came out of their mouth i can see them underestimating, but i doubt they would overestimate numbers that amount to negative pr.

Re:But..

[Daengbo]

Well, I wish that stories like this were reported LESS on Slashdot. I have felt for some months that there is less and less interesting for me to read, and a look at the sidebar shows me why:

SECTIONS
Main

• Apache
• Apple
• AskSlashdot 2 more
• Books
• BSD
• Developers 1 more
• Games 17 more
• Hardware 3 more
• Interviews
• IT 1 more
• Linux 1 more
• Politics 1 more
• Science 3 more
• YRO

Let's see. That's 17 Game stories and some other stuff thrown in. For 8 years, I've come to this site to find out about tech. 17/28 stories are gaming. Obviously, Slashdot is turning into a game site, and I guess I should wander off to find a real tech site, instead.

Re:But..

[SilentChris]

Flamebait. Mark it.

Oh, and watch for similar issues when the PS3, and how we'll actually mark it flamebait right from the getgo.

Re:But..

[Generation C-Man]

It's the holiday season when all the games shine, of course there is going to be a lot of crap about it... SlashDot has always had plenty of stuff on tech... It just so happens that in the past few months, the 360 has generated alot of... Controversy, aka news... It's just what everyone is talking about, particularly since everyone wants one for christmas so bad that they are having wet dreams about it..

You're just going to have to get used to having games at the top of the list for awhile.. Especially with the release of the PS3 in the Spring.. Just think of it this way: When Bill Gates pushes his red button and all the 360's transform into robots and take over the world... You'll be the first to know :D

Re:But..

[Schemat1c]

...and all over the rest of the blogosphere.

Oww! Sorry, everytime I see or hear that word I get a sharp pain in my stomach.

Re:But..

[toopc]

Online polls have indicated that it could be as high as 1 in 6 consoles having problems

According to this online polls Cowboy Neal has stolen over 10,000 consoles. It's an online poll, so it must be true. You think he's eBaying them?

Cowboy Neal Stole My Xbox

Re:But..

[Fr33z0r]

It depends what game you're playing, I'm ok with most but my PC's in a pretty enclosed space, even in winter in the North-East of Scotland I've found that if I want to play PGR3 for any length of time, I need to switch to a t-shirt and open the windows.

Re:But..

[Fr33z0r]

"It depends what game you're playing, I'm ok with most but my PC's in a pretty enclosed space, even in winter in the North-East of Scotland I've found that if I want to play PGR3 for any length of time, I need to switch to a t-shirt and open the windows."

Force of habit, of course I meant to say 360 above (although it does sit on top of my PC if that makes me seem any less of a dumbass :)

Re:But..

[Prophet of Nixon]

Funny that, every time I see or hear it I want to put a sharp pain into the offender's face...

Re:But..

[EvilGnome13]

Big words for an Anonymous Coward.

Re:But..

[pez]

You've been coming to this site for 8 years yet your ID is over half a million? ;-)

Re:But..

[Daengbo]

It's my second ID (after I lost the password to the old one), and I didn't even have an account for nearly the first two years. I got this one in 2000, if I remember correctly. I started coming to Slashdot shortly after I started using Linux, which was about December 1996. That puts me at about 8 1/2 years, right? I didn't mark it down in my calendar as "First day I visited Slashdot," though.

Same thing...

[fury88]

Same thing happened to me. I put a deposit down back in may with EB when it was $20. I STILL missed the first cutoff by like 2 or 3. I finally got it last week and I am glad I did. My guess is the second shipment was better. My brother-in-law got his during first release and he had to send it back before I even got mine!!

Re:Same thing...

[fleck_99_99]

Dang. I didn't put my deposit in until October, and I'm estimating I'll see an XBox 360 in (roughly) April. Still, that's pretty disappointing performance. Reservation: October 2. Current position in list: roughly 1/3 down page 2. Current delivered orders: roughly 1/8 down page 1.

Re:Same thing...

[fury88]

Dang. I didn't put my deposit in until October, and I'm estimating I'll see an XBox 360 in (roughly) April. Still, that's pretty disappointing performance. Reservation: October 2. Current position in list: roughly 1/3 down page 2. Current delivered orders: roughly 1/8 down page 1.

Is that what they are telling you now? I heard someone say at EB that if they ordered now, they'd get a ton in Late Jan, Early Feb.

Re:Same thing...

[crashcodesdotcom]

I ordered from EB on 10/8. They told me there were about 30 people in front of me. On 11/21, I was told that I was 31 on the list and they would be getting 12 systems. Two or three weeks ago I called back to see when the next round of shipments would come in. They told me they didn't know, but I would get a call when it was my turn. They said that 6 of the people who got called for the original 12 systems didn't show up. So everybody moved up an additional 6 spots on the list (which would put me at 13th on the list). At this point they told me I was number 26 on the list. WTF?!?! "This does not make sense." Any conspiracy theorists out there wanna take a crack at this one? How bout optimists that may have a legitimate explanation? BTW, the guy at the store simply claims that the previous guy that told me I was 31 in line mis-counted.

Re:Same thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

heh heh, They did the same thing to me. EB said they would be sure to get it before Christmas, but then later it came out that it would be after Christmas. The kid behind the counter couldn't get it through his head that my 8 year old wouldn't understand why Santa put an empty promo box under the tree with a note promising it will be here in a month. I told him if I can't get it before Christmas, I probably won't need it before next Christmas. I got my money back and went to Walmart and bought him a Gamecube instead (He was wanting one of those, too).

I wonder how much money microsoft has lost from people having to purchase substitutes. I don't like being on the bleeding edge anyway. More cost effective to follow after the first wave (or second or third).

Re:Same thing...

[child_of_mercy]

Like the guy in the store gives a rat's arse exactly where you are on the lisst and doesn't have better things to do with his time.

Re:Same thing...

[rtb61]

I never use pre-orders or go on a waiting list. If I want something I hunt around and get it when I want it. Combine it with a larger more significant purchase and cancel the larger purchase if they fail to follow through.

Although with all these comments and stories about preorder etc. I am wondering if it is more to do with the microsoft "sold out" marketing campaign than anything else.

The initial faults seemed related to using the customers as paying for the privilege product testers (real product testing takes time and cost a lot, microsoft obviously sought the cheaper more profitable solution - provide a limited number of units for sale and let the customers find the faults).

$0.80 a point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Live is offering 1000 Points for $12.50 (or $.80 a point)

Shouldn't that be $0.0125 a point, or 4 points for a nickel?

Re:$0.80 a point?

[lawpoop]

Give me two Bees for a nickel.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Shouldn't that be $0.0125 a point, or 4 points for a nickel?

Shhhhh!!!!! I've started selling him 2 points for $0.80 and he thinks he's getting a great deal. Don't blow this for me!

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Anonymous Coward]

B B

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Soybean47]

It works out to 80 points for $1, which I suspect offers some sort of insight into the mathematical error involved here.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Cheapy]

He simply had the math mixed up. What he did was points/dollars, rather than dollars/point. Thus, you can get 80 points per dollar.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[myenigmaself]

It's 0.8 points per 1. That's where the .80 came from. Just gotta keep the units in line.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Rude Turnip]

I like that onion on your belt!

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Jorkapp]

As it was the style at the time.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[KDR_11k]

He's confusing imperial dollars and metric dollars again.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you got change for a button?

(ob.simpsons)

Re:$0.80 a point?

[cpearson]

So I put an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Corbu Mulak]

I am not sure why, but I laughed very hard at this comment. It isn't even all that funny. I think my mom put some weed in our christmas fudge.

Re:$0.80 a point?

[Anonymous Coward]

HOLY CRAP! 80 pints for $1???? What bar are you at? I'm on my way.

crashes?

[mikkom]

Does it still crash often? That is my worst fear if I would get the 360.

Re:crashes?

[cybrthng]

Mine hasn't crashed nor have any of my friends.

Well, actually i did freeze in PGR 3 once but it was because my daughter was doing something she shouldn't have.

Re:crashes?

[terrymr]

Well, actually i did freeze in PGR 3 once but it was because my daughter was doing something she shouldn't have.

Sticking paperclips in the ports ? ... otherwise it shouldn't freeze

Re:crashes?

[cybrthng]

no.. just beating the crap out of it.. it was on the side and it caused the disk to slip and freeze.

2 year olds are not good with consoles no matter what brand.

Re:crashes?

[eosp]

I thought Windows at least, while not a console, was designed by 2 year olds!

Re:crashes?

[Austerity Empowers]

Seriously it's going to take longer than a month for hardware fixes to get in place, UNLESS they knew about the problems before they shipped! I doubt they could even get firmware patches in place in a month, it's not like patching a PC. Problems have to be found, ECOs issued, new hardware built & tested (if HW is faulty) and new flash devices created. That doesn't usually happen within a month, especially given that anything arriving this week was probably built 2-3 weeks ago.

If you want to be sure you don't get broken hardware wait about 6 months, make sure your store has been sold out. Listen for reports of people with new systems that don't have problems, then buy.

Re:crashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

You couldn't design it. It makes you look stupid to insult people's intelligence when those people are more intelligent than you.

Re:crashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, like setting it on the carpet?

Re:crashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like a design flaw to me.

Re:crashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine hasn't crashed nor have any of my friends.

Pheww, I'm glad to see your friends are alive and well...

Re:crashes?

[Sergeant Beavis]

I've had my 360 since launch and I haven't had a crash or hang at all. I play about 1 or 2 hours a day and several more hours during the weekends. Last weekend I was having it out with my buddies in COD2. We stayed on for 8 hours playing and the 360 worked without a hiccup.

From the start, I've had good ventilation around my 360 and the brick is in a different section of my cabinet. It too has good ventilation. All said, it is a piss poor design but it does work well if you take the heating factors into consideration. I just wish MS had thought this through a bit more. That brick should not overheat if it is left on the carpet.

Look at it this way. Not only do you have a gaming console, but you've now got your own fusion reactor. :)

Re:crashes?

[mjeppsen]

Does it still crash often?

The story this time *is* TFA, and yet you somehow still manage not to read it. Beautiful.
Though I will admit that the answer to your query is pretty hard. You have to hang in there and keep reading. It's in the 2nd paragraph...

-MJ

Re:crashes?

[Jarlsberg]

No crashes so far. No hangups, no reboots, no problems. And I have two...

Re:crashes?

[Jarlsberg]

You were probably going for funny, but if not, it's very clear you never had any kids. ;)

Re:crashes?

[ErroneousBee]

I think other designs were tried, but gestating one for 5 years makes the birth very difficult and hatching them in jam jars means they grow up to be politicians.

Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[Sofalover]

XBMC > XPMCE Streaming

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[jcnnghm]

I'd like to expand on this a bit. XBMC is truly a wonderful application, it plays everything I have ever thrown at it, and in the past two years or so has been the number one application I have ran on my XBOX.

The xbox 360 media playback is somewhere between pathetic and piss-poor. About the only thing they got right is allowing you to stream MP3's over the network to listen to them in game. I haven't been able to find a linux streaming server that will replicate the functionality of Media Connect so I can stream directly from my file server. Media Center coupled with the Xbox 360 will not playback MP3's in a samba share mounted as a drive. I had to copy my MP3 collection to my workstation and stream from that. Because of that, I haven't gotten the ambition to mirror my digital camera collection to my workstation for streaming.

There is NO video playback without XP Media Center, and I've heard it doesn't support that many formats anyway. I thought Microsoft would have taken a look at XBMC and stolen some of the best features. XBMC can playback media through a number of different formats (I believe nfs, samba, and stream servers) and copes with pretty much everything you throw at it at this point. XBMC can play an ISO of a DVD, fantastic.

Until the 360 can do at least what XBMC can do, it is both a joke and a failure. I really want to disconnect my original xbox, Microsoft needs to come through with a serious media player.

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[Jonny_eh]

I doubt the 360 will support as much functionality as xbmc at least until the PS3 comes out.

If the PS3 DOES have decent multimedia capability, maybe M$ will have to improve their offering.

Come on! No xvid support? Cause of piracy? But it supports mp3!

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[jonwil]

Including (either as a free download/upgrade or a cheap purchase from XBOX live) a media player that can play the same formats as windows media player (and can do it from a windows file share) would be a great thing for microsoft and would sell more 360s (I am sure there are lots of people that would love some kind of "media player" for their home entertainment systems especially if it was reasonably cheap (and in this case it can do games too) and could play media from their PCs.

Heck, if there was a way to add video inputs to it, microsoft could turn it into a PVR too (although they would need to come out with a bigger hard disk for that to work :)

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[SilentChris]

[quote]Until the 360 can do at least what XBMC can do, it is both a joke and a failure. I really want to disconnect my original xbox, Microsoft needs to come through with a serious media player.[/quote]

By what measure, exactly? Tons of press, fairly good reviews on a relatively large launch library, sold out (well, we can blame that on limited hardware yields), it can play most formats people care about (MP3, unprotected AAC, MPEG2 and most graphic formats), overall well designed hardware and an intuitive interface. As far as I can see, that's not much of a "failure".

Oh wait... you're looking at a specific role you *tacked-on* to the original Xbox as being missing here. You're dismissing the whole console as a failure.

Here's an idea: be somewhat intelligent. Do what I did: buy a decent shuttle case (there are many that look great even in the living room -- much better than the original Xbox did), put in a large hard drive and add a decent TV tuner. Put any number of quality open source media managers on it. Viola: a much MUCH better solution than even XBMC provided, and you don't need to hack your box to do it.

I'm always amazed at the shit people find to complain about. I added a bagel slicer to my toaster, and now that Toaster 2 has come out from Microtoast without one, I'm Royally Pissed (tm). Just use the right techology for a change: bagel slicer off to the side, shuttle box for a media center.

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[jcnnghm]

I like my 360, the console itself is certainly a huge success. The built-in media playback functionality is a half-assed attempt to sell Media Center PCs. That is what I am commenting on.

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[robosmurf]

it can play most formats people care about (MP3, unprotected AAC, MPEG2 and most graphic formats)

A quick clarification: The Xbox 360 does not play AAC at all, even if it is unprotected. I can plug my iPod Nano into it, and all the mp3 tracks play fine, but all the self-ripped AAC tracks have a red forbidden icon by them.

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[Jarlsberg]

Agreed. It's really stupid you're not able to play off movies directly. It would be real nice if you could just plug in an usb memory stick and play the movie files off them. With Live, it's easy to upgrade the functionality of the media player, though, so maybe we'll get it somewhere down the line.

Re:Couldn't they take a few pointers from XBMC

[A. Lynch]

There is a free AAC plugin available from the Live marketplace that allow for playback of AAC files.

It works perfectly fine.

What the fuck is this again?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Oooh, look at me, I got an X-box 360. I'm going to post the same shit that was posted by blog writers everywhere, only a month later. But I'm special and write for slashdot, so my shit doesn't stink."

Seriously, no one cares you got a fucking X-box. Shove it.

Re:What the fuck is this again?

[hiphophap]

well i know someone who is planning on installing an xbox360 in their thunderbird... And what I then wonder is what happens when it rains?

Re:What the fuck is this again?

[nizo]

Actually it should be safe since someone will probably steal it long before it gets rained on.

Re:What the fuck is this again?

[stanmann]

Or you could install it in a ford pinto, and start both of them running... THEN kick the rear bumper until one of them experiences catastrophic failure.

Re:What the fuck is this again?

[abandonment]

no kidding - how is this news-worthy simply because it's a 'second shipment' 360? is it different in any way, shape or form from the original shipment? no, then why write this?

waste of text

Amen

[cybrthng]

I couldn't agree more. Gotta love my 360, Xboxlive and the total service package.

I'm used to large power supplies, my LCD tv has one thats the same size if not bigger, so welcome to the world of big bricks :)

Tyrannosaurus Rex

[lampiaio]

Is it only me or are those T-Rex arms out of proportion (too small/thin)? Here are some images for comparison: Google Images

I know, Google Images shouldn't be a reference, but anyway...

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[CountBrass]

That's because it's not a T-Rex it's a V-Rex (no, seriously). I no, I have no idea what's the difference, well apart from the arms of course :-)

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[GeorgeFrancisco]

They do seem so yeah. I checked the Wiki entry and it does appear to support our suspicion that they should be a little bigger/thicker.

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[miller701]

A little bit. they look about the same size as the ones in the movie (or at least the trailer)

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[risings0n]

Is it only me or are those humans with guns fighting a T-Rex?

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[AndroidCat]

Maybe it's a geek T-Rex? They always have skinny arms.

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[Guppy06]

If you think the proportions on the tyranosaurus were bad, you should see the size they make the gorillas!

(Fantasy!)

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[peterpi]

Did you notice that before Jurassic Park, all Tyrannosaurus Rex models and pictures had them standing upright? Then after Jurassic Park everybody had them with the back horizontal and called it T-Rex?

I need to get out more.

Re:Tyrannosaurus Rex

[DDRLord]

Actually, Peter Jackson designed his Tyrannosaurus to be scientifically incorrect. That's why it looks so "old school", because it's modelled after the old fashioned monster movie T-Rexes that everyone still has floating around in their minds. Give the new Kong that classic Kong feel.
Though it seems he named them V-Rexes just so everyone wouldn't bug him about it.

Yeah but....

[nizo]

If you're looking for someone to kick around in CoD multiplayer, I will probably be able to oblige any deep-seated fantasies you may have of shooting a Slashdot editor in the brainpan.

I still think sniping you through the office window would be easier than getting an Xbox 360 right now however.

Re:Yeah but....

[cybrthng]

Keep your eyes on CircuitCity.com. They have been releasing a few every day online. They had a batch go out about 9:00 a.m. this morning. Webmon is a pretty good tool to track the online sales. Follow up on fatwallet's 360 threads as well for all the how-to's you can handle on getting a 360.

Re:Yeah but....

[Zonk]

Dude, you are so why I work the frontpage shift with the blinds closed.

Re:Yeah but....

[brainnolo]

Strange, here in Italy i saw a lot of them sitting unsold on the store's shelves, even now that Christmas holiday are near.

Re:Yeah but....

[Anonymous Coward]

umm... ebay them! you should still be able to make a profit (or is there a ntsc/pal issue there....)

Re:Yeah but....

[PervertedByZonk]

Are those the blinds over the monitor?

Re:Yeah but....

[Alistar]

I don't know about you people in the states, but even during the Christmas rush I can go down to EB games where I live and pick one up off the shelf for purchase, they certainly aren't as rare here in Canada.

Re:Yeah but....

[CastrTroy]

I live in Ottawa. Heard a guy at EB in the Rideau centre saying if you haven't ordered one, they probably won't have any for you until march. I think the retailers are kind of pissed. They could be selling tons of them, but Microsoft isn't shipping the units.

Re:Yeah but....

[Turn-X Alphonse]

Even so you've got to admit you do kind of ask for a lot of the slack you get. I don't know where you learnt to write headlines and articles but, some do come close to selling junk. You post a lot about games and I can't think of another game review by anyone but you (or you once insulting a game, just saying it's mildly okay at worst).

So come on Zonk, write some real articles and review more than the latest fad. Surely you can give us all a Christmas present and stop whoring things for a few days/weeks?

Keyboard Input

[Shaheen]

Zonk said he hated entering in his email address and password with the Xbox 360 virtual keyboard. We understood this problem from Xbox and support USB keyboard input for the Xbox 360 virtual keyboard. Just plug in a USB keyboard at any time and use it while the virtual keyboard is displayed.

Disclaimer: Microsoft is my employer. This post is provided as-is with no warranty and confers no rights.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Sofalover]

Do you care enough to support K & M in FPS's?

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

Question should be phrased "Do you care enough to require that developers support keyboard and mouse in all FPS titles" ;)

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

I like your webpage
"WARNING

The U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY is advising all Microsoft Windows users to stop using INTERNET EXPLORER due to a number of security issues with that Web Browser. They suggest using alternative browsers until such time as Microsoft fix their product. We suggest you download Get Firefox! or Opera. Click the links for more information on those excellent products."

Re:Keyboard Input

[WankersRevenge]

That sounds very user-friendly ... but of course, such usability is rendered moot when the interface doesn't inform the user about it.

Re:Keyboard Input

[generic-man]

I was really impressed with that when I set up the Xbox that the OGS folks bought on day 1 and lent to me for the winter break. I plugged in my wireless keyboard/mouse receiver to the front USB port and was able to type in all the details needed to register for Live. Very slick. Sometimes the arrow keys and ENTER button work as the D-Pad and A button, but sometimes they don't; that was my only beef with the keyboard support. In any case, kudos for supporting existing input devices out of the box.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

It's in the manual.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

So is it a default option along with mouse for games like FPS, or do developers have to program support in and enable it?

Having the thing as a option developers can chose to support isn't going to kill compliants like mine.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Gulthek]

Yes. It is hard to remember to read the manual.

Must the user be hand-held every step of the way now? :-/

Re:Keyboard Input

[killmenow]

And who, pray tell, reads those?

Re:Keyboard Input

[C0rinthian]

IIRC they specifically choose NOT to support Keyboard and Mouse in games to keep the playing field level.

It's a console, not a PC. Play it like one.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Tim C]

People who want to know how to use their new, very expensive piece technology properly.

No, I don't generally read the manual unless I have to - but if I later discover that things would have been easier for me if I had, I don't blame the manufacturer, I blame myself for being too impatient and arrogant.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

WARNING:

Prepare to be hated by the Slashdot hordes, as you have admitted the ulitmate sin! And why does'nt the XBrick tell us these things on the setup screen? Everyone knows that nobody reads the manual!

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooh, a fat sarcastic Linux fan! You must be a devil with the ladies.

Re:Keyboard Input

[JaxGator75]

So screw what the people holding all the money want???

Re:Keyboard Input

[Keeper]

I thought we hated things like clippy around here?

Re:Keyboard Input

[C0rinthian]

Well I'm holding money too, and I don't want it. You balance a FPS for keyboard/mouse and it's unplayable with a normal controller. Creating a game where it becomes required to use add-on hardware to be able to compete is a great way to kill a games sales. I bet that any Xbox 360 games that require the optional HDD will be few and far between, and will not sell well for this same reason. (Historically look at the 32x, SegaCD, and that N64 expansion cartridge)

Besides, who in their right mind would want to use a keyboard and mouse in their living room?

Re:Keyboard Input

[boarder]

Creating a game where it becomes required to use add-on hardware to be able to compete is a great way to kill a games sales.

Yeah, it's a shame that the Gran Turismo series sells so poorly... and all due to the fact that people playing with a wheel and pedals are able to compete at a higher level. Forza didn't sell all that well either. Both of those titles are extremely well selling titles for their respective systems and both can be played at a different level with an expensive add on. Play GT4 with a controller and then with a wheel. It's playable both ways, but they are in a different world. Now, play Burnout3 with a wheel and see that it is almost unplayable (it was designed for a controller).

People who want to play a game at the highest level are willing to spend $150 on a wheel, so I think offering the option to add on a keyboard and mouse they probably already have (or can pick up for a total of about $15) isn't too much to ask. I don't think it will make the playing field completely unlevel, rather I think it would help people like me who never got the hang of FPS with a controller (despite the extensive controller practice I had growing up) therefore leveling it out even more.

If Xbox had a kb+m option, I would go out and buy Halo2 right now. I didn't even buy my Xbox until a few months ago due to the lack of good FPS action... what sealed it was Forza online with friends via Live. If they had a FPS with kb+m on Live with no server issues, I might buy a 360 right now. I have multiple friends who feel the same way.

I can agree, though, with the statement about kb+m in the living room. I hooked up my PC to my HDTV this weekend to try gaming on it, but I couldn't get the kb situated well or the mouse to track right on an unstable platform. And they are much larger to move around and hide when done playing.

I also think MSoft fears the 360 with a kb+m option would canabalize their OS sales as well as open them up to monopoly lawsuits and such.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

I plugged in my wireless keyboard/mouse receiver to the front USB port

Aside: if it was anything like a Logitech RF wireless keyboard, the dongle does all the work of translating the wireless signal back into USB - the Xbox doesn't really know any better.

Re:Keyboard Input

[kesuki]

what i find more ironic is that my mom tried to install 'drivers' for a wireless usb keyboard and mouse, and made them unusable (they 3rd party drivers actually forze her system up) when they worked fine without any 'propriety drivers' under windows xp. of course, she couldn't find the signal calibration button on the bottom of the keyboard/mouse either. when a king kong sized _4_ page (2 pages in english, 2 pages in spanish) instruction manual walked you through step by step.

it's amazing that people can't read 2 pieces of paper to be bothered to get something working. i guess that's why most people consider mastering the 'play' and 'rewind' buttons on a vcr as an acheivment.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

usability is rendered moot when the interface doesn't inform the user about it.

Wait..... I thought we hated clippy.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Mr2001]

If Xbox had a kb+m option, I would go out and buy Halo2 right now.

Check out the SmartJoy FRAG from Lik-Sang. It lets you use any PS/2 keyboard and mouse with the Xbox. I used one of those and an X2VGA+ to set my Xbox up on my computer desk, and now playing Halo 2 is almost (but sadly, not quite) like playing Halo 1 on the PC.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Mr2001]

You balance a FPS for keyboard/mouse and it's unplayable with a normal controller. Creating a game where it becomes required to use add-on hardware to be able to compete is a great way to kill a games sales.

Nonsense. Halo 2 is still quite playable with a normal controller. I mean, *I* sure as hell can't play it that way, but go to any tournament and you'll see top-level players using a regular Xbox controller. It doesn't need any rebalancing to be playable with a keyboard and mouse; with a SmartJoy FRAG, you can play the game as well as anyone as long as you set it up right.

Or look at Halo 1 on the PC. The game balance is exactly the same as it was on Xbox, but you can also use a keyboard and mouse to control it (which, of course, everyone does).

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

hey this is slashdot, stop introducing those damn 'facts' into the argument

Re:Keyboard Input

[ScaryFroMan]

MS did something genuinely useful? And you're not afraid to tell /.? You must be new here.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Minna Kirai]

Nonsense. Halo 2 is still quite playable with a normal controller.

Because it wasn't balanced for a mouse. Halo with mouse is pathetically easy. The accuracy of a mouse + the auto-aim required for thumbpad aiming makes the game seem childishly simple to an experienced PC FPS player.

with a SmartJoy FRAG, you can play the game as well as anyone as long as you set it up right.

No. According to Lik-Sang, your play will be different from normal users: "using a keyboard and a mouse, completely changes the way the game is played. Use of the mouse takes away the need to concentrate on aiming and leaves you free to concentrate on pure tactics."

The only reason the smartjoy-frag doesn't totally dominate high-level play is that it's rather flakey, and the game sometimes gets stuck for a second or two (in situations where the approved controller could effortlessly proceed)

Re:Keyboard Input

[Austerity Empowers]

Until you can play FPSs with a keyboard and a mouse, PCs will be better gaming platforms. I can't believe anyone puts up with a joystick on an fps.

Re:Keyboard Input

[kazad]

But wait, this is slashdot... don't we have a polite way to tell users to read the manual? =)

Re:Keyboard Input

[Anonymous Coward]

Bunch of limp wristed nancy boys. Why, back in my day, I got on the internet with the Sega Netlink attached to my Sega Saturn. I hadn't yet bought the keyboard adapter, so I typed everything in with the joystick and onscreen keyboard. You get pretty quick with it. I used to chat with people using it, so it wasn't that bad. It's just different, not difficult. You'd think a gamer would just adapt to it, but since the gamer is also a /.er, they'll bitch first.

Ah, the year was 1997...
"I can't recieve attachments, upload it somewhere".
"why not?"
"I don't have a computer"
"um, what? how could you not have a computer?"
"I'm using a sega netlink"
"what the fuck is a sega netlink?"

Re:Keyboard Input

[Mr2001]

Halo with mouse is pathetically easy. The accuracy of a mouse + the auto-aim required for thumbpad aiming makes the game seem childishly simple to an experienced PC FPS player.
[...]
The only reason the smartjoy-frag doesn't totally dominate high-level play is that it's rather flakey, and the game sometimes gets stuck for a second or two

As the owner and user of a SmartJoy FRAG, I have to say this is absolutely false. I've never had mine get stuck, and I'm still not mopping the floor with my opponents, despite being a skilled FPS player (and quite a good Halo PC player, if I may be so bold).

All the adapter does is allow someone who's used to playing first-person shooters the "right" way to competently play them on consoles, without spending a year getting used to the controller layout. Auto-aim is still there when you're using a mouse, but it doesn't really make much of a difference.

No. According to Lik-Sang, your play will be different from normal users:

Well, of course Lik-Sang says that. They're trying to sell the damn things!

Re:Keyboard Input

[C0rinthian]

Until you can play FPSs with a keyboard and a mouse, PCs will be better FPS platforms. I can't believe anyone puts up with a joystick on an fps.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Keyboard Input

[boarder]

Yeah, I've known about the three major kb+m adapters for xbox for awhile now (Smartjoy, MagicFPS and the Max Shooter). I just am not able to plunk down the $35 to buy one without a trusted source reviewing it. I've read plenty of reviews from websites I trust about hardware, but I want a friend to review it so I can know what the "feel" of it is like. I've read it just doesn't feel the same due to the analog controller design.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Mr2001]

It doesn't feel exactly the same, but it's pretty close. There's some almost imperceptible lag in the mouse movement, which is easy enough to get used to.

My only real complaint is that in Halo 2, turrets are unusable and vehicles are nearly undriveable with the same settings you'd use to move around on foot. You have to turn the sensitivity up to man them without picking up the mouse a lot, but for some reason, it seems the game designers chose to make one axis much more responsive than the other when controlling a turret/vehicle, and the SJF doesn't have independent sensitivity controls for each axis. (If one of those other adapters does, get it!) So when you're trying to shoot someone with a turret, you have to be absolutely still in the Y direction while you're following him in the X direction, or else you'll find yourself looking at the sky or the ground.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Austerity Empowers]

The universe of games for me are MMOGs, RTSs and FPSs, all of which are done best on PCs, so from my perspective I had it right already ;) I like RPGs too, but there are so few worth playing on any platform that it's not worth mentioning.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Minna Kirai]

(and quite a good Halo PC player, if I may be so bold)

That's not bold. Everybody is good at Halo PC, because it's too easy.

I have to say this is absolutely false. I've never had mine get stuck

It's not literally "stuck", but I didn't want to type out 6 pages of subtle HCI behavior.

All the adapter does is allow someone who's used to playing first-person shooters the "right" way to competently play them on consoles, without spending a year getting used to the controller layout.

This is hilarious. Typically, people display an egocentric bias, meaning they assume other people think they way they do. You're doing the opposite: you cannot play FPS with thumbsticks, and yet you imagine that you are unique, and other people can use them just fine.

In truth, the reason you (and many others) can't cope with thumbstick Halo is that thumbsticks are just fundamentally worse controls. It's more than a matter of taste.

Re:Keyboard Input

[Mr2001]

It's not literally "stuck", but I didn't want to type out 6 pages of subtle HCI behavior.

Let me rephrase it, then: I've never had problems with my SJF, other than the sensitivity being all wrong in turrets and vehicles, ever since I figured out that shiny surfaces and optical mice don't go together.

You're doing the opposite: you cannot play FPS with thumbsticks, and yet you imagine that you are unique, and other people can use them just fine.

I know for a fact that other people can use them just fine. I regularly get my ass handed to me by players online who, I can only assume, are using thumbsticks. I've seen a few of my friends (damn fine Halo 2 players, judging from what I've seen and from their ratings) get slaughtered by little kids in a tournament - a tiny local tournament sponsored by a clothing store in a medium sized city. All were using the standard Xbox controller.

I agree that thumbsticks are fundamentally worse for playing first-person shooters (but good luck convincing my friends of that). Halo 2, however, seems to have leveled the playing field quite a bit by adding auto-aim. From what I've seen, there's no shortage of people who are able to kick ass at Halo 2 with a standard controller.

Good Writeup

[acvh]

As a confirmed video game junkie I have mixed feelings toward the "next generation" consoles. I don't think that we've really maxed out the current generation yet, especially the xbox, but now we're moving on. The 360 is at a price point that makes it easier for me to Just Say No, at least for now.

I told my son that we're not getting a new console until at least one of us finishes all the games we own. That should keep us busy until the PS4 or xbox 720 hit.

Re:Good Writeup

[David Nabbit]

I'll second that. Although I might need to pick up a DS before I finish all the games I already own. I'm also thinking of just getting rid of the games I probably won't play again.

Re:Good Writeup

[rknop]

As a confirmed video game junkie I have mixed feelings toward the "next generation" consoles. I don't think that we've really maxed out the current generation yet, especially the xbox, but now we're moving on. The 360 is at a price point that makes it easier for me to Just Say No, at least for now.

Heh. Yeah, I only got an Xbox after they were $150 and I spent a lot of time rationalizing that it was OK to buy a Microsoft thing. I eventually came up with the dissembling cognitive dissonance-resolver that I'd be happy if Microsoft were to take off as a games company and give up on Windows and all that other stuff that I find so threatening.

But the Xbox 360... well, I got my Xbox late, so there are lots of great games I haven't played yet... and, heck, I could probably enjoy my gaming experience for the next few months with nothing other than the only game I've played for the last month (GTA:SA). Yeah, lots of life left in that thing. I may get a 360 when it's price is low because it's in it's last year of "prime time" life.

I predict that at least for another year, we'll still see a few new games for the Xbox. There are a lot of them out there. Halo 3 and the next Morrowind, no, but I'll bite my patience and wait a few years to play those.

-Rob

Re:Good Writeup

[ToasterofDOOM]

Since I'm feeling pedantic, I'll bite. It is not the next Morrowind, and it never has been. Morrowind (TES III) was not the first, (and not the best either from what I've heard) but the third in a series that will be continued by Oblivion, TES IV.

Re:Good Writeup

[theJML]

I completely agree. I used to be all gung-ho about getting the latest and the greatest, but there's really no point anymore. I have plenty of games I haven't beaten for the current one, not to mention the plethora of games that I can now get used for 10-15 bucks because someone decided to trade in all of the current games for x-box 360 stuff. Besides, it's only going to get better and cheaper in the mean time.

I also agree that the current X-box is no where close to maxed out. In looking at games I find ones everyonce in a while that offer 480p, 720p, or even 1080i game play for the current system (though I only saw one of the latter). If you want to realize how much potential the x-box still has, throw a 720p game in there (like Tony Hawk Underground, or Soul Calibur 3). On an HD screen, the graphics are so much brighter, crisper and more detailed. And the game play is still a nice smooth framerate. I start to think that the x-box 360 cut the development of 720p and 1080i games for the current console short. And in the next year or so, systems will just get faster, less power-hungry, and more stable...

Re:Good Writeup

[DRO0]

I think what's making me hold off for now isn't the price of the console but the price of the GAMES.

Once there's enough games on the market and the initial release titles drop into the $29.99 range I'll maybe consider jumping in then. All I see right now are a handful of $59.99 titles that don't particularly excite me.

There's plenty of good "bargain" games for the pre-Xbox360 generation of consoles to keep me content.

Re:Good Writeup

[iapetus]

IMO the sane point at which to start buying new hardware is when there's an official budget range for games. That means that there are good games to be had for half the price of a new game, and tends to be a sign that the new games will be making better use of the hardware.

That doesn't stop me from buying at launch, of course. I've never been a big fan of sanity.

Re:Good Writeup

[Generic Guy]

Heh. Yeah, I only got an Xbox after they were $150 and I spent a lot of time rationalizing that it was OK to buy a Microsoft thing. I eventually came up with the dissembling cognitive dissonance-resolver that I'd be happy if Microsoft were to take off as a games company and give up on Windows and all that other stuff that I find so threatening.

You can rationalize it like I did: Microsoft is subsidizing your Xbox purchase. It is still taken as common knowledge that MS is losing money on each console unit, so they've effectively help pay for you to have the 'box. Then what you do is only buy used titles for it, so they never make it back the licensing fees.

Oh yeah, and a softmod with XBMC and a SNES emulator make it teh R0x0r!

Re:Good Writeup

[Minna Kirai]

I eventually came up with the dissembling cognitive dissonance-resolver that I'd be happy if Microsoft were to take off as a games company and give up on Windows and all that other stuff that I find so threatening.

Microsoft's games projects still run Windows, and it has the potential to make Windows vastly more threatening than it already is.

Look at in-depth Xbox360 reviews and see how frequently, users are more impressed with the "dashboard" and Live services than the actually full-on games.

The Xbox project is an attempt to get hardware with PC-like functionality into homes, but minus the PC's ability to execute arbitrary programs from developers with no specific authorization. Microsoft will try to converge mainstream PC features into an "Xbox 720" device, and reduce the existing desktop PC market to a "prosumer" niche.

All of that, of course, will deprive Linux of 95% of it's platforms, and make MS's monopoly powers that much stronger.

Re:Good Writeup

[RESPAWN]

I'm like you in that I got my XBox late as well. In fact, I used the profits from the sale of my 360 on eBay to fund my purchase of an XBox. I've had it a little over a week now and I've found that there are scores of good games still available for it. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of my friends have no intention of upgrading any time soon along with, I'm sure, many other people, so I imagine that the Live experience won't change much in the next year. There were still be a lot of people playing Halo 2 and Forza over the course of the next 3 - 6 months at least.

In the end, I've got a new toy and 7 games right now. In fact, I can't see one compelling reason (read: must have game) to purchase a 360 yet. The offerings on the original XBox are still far better than what's out for the 360. The two 360 games that interest me the most, Call of Duty 2, and PGR3 have their alternatives. Call of Duty 2 I can always pick up for the PC. PGR3, well I haven't yet seen where it's that much better than 2, especially in light of the fact that, for me anyway, Forza provides a much more engrossing experience.

In all, I think my new XBox should keep me occupied until the PS3 comes out. I'll look at getting a 360 when Microsoft can get the 3rd parties to produce a must-have game for the console.

$0.80 for 1 point???

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you need to check your math on that. $12.50/1000 = 0.0125. Thats less than $0.02 per point.

Sounds ok...

[rwven]

Sounds like it's halfway decent compared to what i initially expected. It's still too expensive for me though. I'll buy it in a couple years when you can get them for 200 bucks... I'm not that into console gaming. I'd rather take a ride down to the range and shoot for REAL. (or boot up my PC and get better controls and better graphics that i don't have to sit on the couch to see) :) The most i've ever spent on a console was 50 bucks for a refurb gamecube at eb games... Other than that, i bought a refurb dreamcast for 30 bucks from eb and my parents bought me a gamegear a long time ago... I'm sure the console will get better with age as more and more stuff becomes multithreaded. Supposedly not one of the games that's out for it now is multithreaded... I'd like to see what happens when games start coming out that ARE.

Re:Sounds ok...

[KeithIrwin]

(or boot up my PC and get better controls and better graphics that i don't have to sit on the couch to see)

Yeah. Sitting on the couch is such a hardship. Last time I sat on a couch, I was really comfortable and had room for my friends to watch and play with me too. It was awful. I won't soon be doing that again.

Keith

Re:Sounds ok...

[rwven]

And i'm sure you had a great place to put your mouse and keyboard as well...

Re:Sounds ok...

[RESPAWN]

not that into console gaming. I'd rather take a ride down to the range and shoot for REAL.

The big difference, however, is that paper targets don't shoot back. Oh, and depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to own/fire all of those cool automatic weapons. Thankfully, living in Georgia, I can. :-D

Still, I understand what you are saying but I do have to say that with the advent of Halo, I found FPS gaming on consoles to be better than I thought it could be. The XBox controller seems to be designed with exactly that in mind. The GC controller sucks for FPS and the PS2 is merely adequate in my eyes. The thumbsticks on the XBox controller seem to have just the right range of motion and sensitivity to make FPS work. Furthermore, my friends and I have found that our PC FPS skills have translated fairly well to the console. I just bought my XBox a little over a week ago, and I hadn't played one since February. I popped in Halo 2 and immediately jumped on live with a few of my friends... and for the most part we dominated. The first match I played, I had the top number of kills - not too bad for somebody who is used to a KB/M combo and who hadn't touched an XBox controller in about 10 months.

I guess for me, the real advantage of online gaming with a console is not having to play the "patch dance" every time I want to play a game. To give you an example, about 10 or so months ago I decided that I wanted to play BF:1942 again. Specifically, the Desert Combat mod. First, I have to install the game again since I removed it a while back. That took a good 20 minutes. Then, I have to go get the latest patch. Oh, the developers don't have it for download on their site - I'll have to go get it from FilePlanet or a similar site. So, I wait in a queue for about 45 minutes, then the file starts downloading at an appalingly (to me anyway) slow rate. So I leave and come back in an hour to find the patch downloaded. I install the patch, then install the copy of Desert Combat I have on my PC. I think to check the version number on the mod against the latest version on line... and I need a new version. Back to FilePlanet - wait in a queue - download starts - it's ~650MB - I leave for 3 hours and then come back. I Install the mod start playing, and find the my framerate sucks compared to the last time I played. I do some research on the boards and find out that the game runs smoother with version X of the ATI drivers and I have version Y. At this point, it's been approximately 6 hours since I first decided I wanted to play the game. I can figure on at least another 30 minutes to update my drivers (maybe more since I have to figure out which friggin order to install the drives for my All-in-Wonder card). At that point I just said "Fuck it!", drank a beer, grabbed my gun, and went to the range.

By comparison, the first time I decided to play Halo 2 on Live, I put the disc in, start the game, connect to Live - oh! There's an update available! The XBox automatically downloads and installs the update and I'm online and playing a game in less than 10 minutes. (OK, that's not 100% true, I did have to add my XBox to my router's DMZ and add my router to my landlord's router's DMZ, but that took all of about 1 minute to do. I made the changes while downloading the update and restarted the routers when the XBox restarted.) There was a time when I didn't mind spending hours on downloading and installing patches, but I think those days went out the window when I finished college, got a job, and could finally afford to fund my alcoholism and the resulting changes in my social life. ;)

Re:Sounds ok...

[KeithIrwin]

Sure. My keyboard goes on my lap or the sofa's arm when I'm not using it. The mouse atop a mouse pad on the sofa next to me or if I really need to use it a lot, I sit on the right side of the sofa and put it on the end table. It's nice and comfy.

Of course, the original poster was contrasting the relative merits of desktop computers and video game consoles, and I don't tend to use the keyboard and mouse with my video game consoles that often (except when playing Typing of the Dead on Dreamcast). But I do keep my Linux box hooked up to the TV as well. Frankly, sofas are comfy and although finding good places to put input devices can sometimes be a little trickier, it's well worth it to not have to spend hours in an uncomfortable chair. Yes, I know that comfortable desk chairs exist, but they're well outside what I can currently afford.

Keith

one of us finishes all the games we own

[Darius Jedburgh]

Is your real name Sisyphus perhaps?

Re:one of us finishes all the games we own

[Zigg]

Why do you say that? Do all the games you own erase their own save files just before you complete them?

Re:one of us finishes all the games we own

[Darius Jedburgh]

No, but every time I finish a game I seem to find that I've purchased another three or four in the intervening time. But even without that I must have at least 60 unfinished games. In fact, I've saved about 30 games for when I retire (in 20 years time I guess).

Re:one of us finishes all the games we own

[CoderBob]

You laugh, but my PS1 memory card failed on me the first time I made it to the last cavern in FFVII. This was after I had gotten the gold chocobo, Knights of the Round, etc., etc.

Re:one of us finishes all the games we own

[karnal]

Yea, I found out the hard way that something about Square's software (Parasite eve, I believe as well) would completely fuck a third party memory card.

If you used a "genuine" Sony memory card, you would never lose a save.

That was annoying.

What the hell?

[imag0]

Ok, so let me get it straight. Microsoft took a credit card machine, masked it as a game console and shoved it out the door.

I've boycotted Sony due to the CD debacle, and after reading this I'm sure I will not be picking up a 360 since I really don't like the idea of paying someone everytime I want to change something. Looks like my decision has been made for me. Here's hoping that the Nintendo Revolution does not suck all that bad.

Re:What the hell?

[Zonk]

I have greatly enjoyed playing with the Marketplace, but the for-pay elements are not the only things on offer.

As I said, all the demos offer a free trial version, so you can try before you buy. They're usually fixed time, so you can only play for about half an hour or so before it quits. The themes and gamer pictures are usually for-pay, but there are a number of freebies as well. For example, right now you can download a Kameo Christmas-themed skin for your blades. It's not as attractive as some of the other options, but if you want to futz with your console's look you aren't always going to have to pay for it.

Re:What the hell?

[xtieburn]

'paying someone everytime I want to change something'

Thats a bit of an exageration. I believe you just pay and you can get some new stuff but you dont have to pay to keep switching around things. Kind of like the important part of the look of the 360 is to be able to move it to anywhere in your lounge, thats obviously free, but if you really like you can also change its face plate for a price.

Its just an extra that wouldnt exist at all if it werent for the credit card and point stuff.

That said I am also waiting for the revolution to come out. 360 doesnt seem to bad though and it was a good review.

Re:What the hell?

[neocrono]

"+1 - Funny Jerk."

Re:What the hell?

[greenrom]

I totally agree. I don't like the idea of paying someone to download ringtones and wallpapers to my cellphone. Looks like my decision has been made. I'm not going to buy a cell phone until the wireless providers stop offering optional services that I don't find useful. And if that doesn't work, I'm going to throw a tantrum and hold my breath until my face turns blue.

Re:What the hell?

[generic-man]

Sorry, you don't have it straight. You can use an Xbox 360 for as long as you like without typing your CC number in. You can even sign up for your one month of free Live gold service without putting a CC number into the system. The only time you need to provide a CC number is if you want to buy points directly through the system so you can d/l little games and frills. You don't have to "pay someone everytime you want to change something," as nothing in the system is locked behind a payment system besides Marketplace items themselves.

Re:What the hell?

[Dr.Who678]

That has to be the DUMBEST thing i have ever read! Your reasoning is flawed, Badly!

Re:What the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've boycotted Sony due to the CD debacle

1995 called...they want your Tekken back.

Re:What the hell?

[Ronnie76er]

Enjoy not gaming past current gen ever again.

Re:What the hell?

[Pusene]

You must be missing the point. Cellphones can easily be modded using software made by the whoever made the phone, or by someone else. Can you design your own styles for the Xbox?

Re:What the hell?

[doubledoh]

Dude, that was funny.

Re:What the hell?

[CastrTroy]

But when you're paying for stuff that's equivalent to wallpaper, skins and ringtones, and there is no other way of getting wallpaper onto the thing, then you do end up paying every time you change something. Obviously if you don't change anything, you don't pay for anything. Why couldn't they just allow you to make your own skins, wallpaper, and sounds, maybe even games, for your XBox 360, and download them to the thing over your network. It would make a much better online community if you didn't have to rely on MS to provide what you wanted.

Re:What the hell?

[PhoenixFlare]

Look, i'm a zealous XBox-hating Nintendo fanboy, but even I have to wonder what you're talking about here.

Ok, so let me get it straight. Microsoft took a credit card machine, masked it as a game console and shoved it out the door.

No, they made a machine that allows you to pay more for extra goodies if you want them. Can we assume you don't have a cellphone, cable/satelitte TV, or any other service where you're stuck with the vanilla package if you don't pay extra?

and after reading this I'm sure I will not be picking up a 360 since I really don't like the idea of paying someone everytime I want to change something

Nowhere in Zonk's article (or anywhere else on the net, for that matter) does it say this. You pay for, again, optional stuff like the Marketplace games, the Xbox Live subscription, and other add-ons.

Here's hoping that the Nintendo Revolution does not suck all that bad.

I imagine you'll be disappointed then, seeing as how Nintendo will most likely be offering purchasable downloads of one kind or another.

Re:What the hell?

[iapetus]

Partly because there's money to be made, partly because 50% of online gamers having a badly digitised picture of a penis as their gamer icon would become old very quickly.

Re:What the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, yes, you can. You can take any JPEG and set it as your background (for free even!) rather than paying for a downloadable one from Marketplace.

Re:What the hell?

[iapetus]

You don't have to provide a CC number. Ever. You can buy your live subscription and marketplace points from your local gaming store, and enter a code to activate them on your 360. Speaking personally there's no way my credit card details are going onto the thing in its current form.

Re:What the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you mean, "badly digitized"? The new Nikon camera I'm giving my wife for [Christmas|Kwanzaa|Saturnalia|Generic Non-Religious Non-Fun Winter Celebration Day] takes very clear pictures of my equipment, thank you.

Re:What the hell?

[generic-man]

Good. I made the mistake of plugging my CC# into the Xbox 360 I borrowed from a friend because I wanted to buy a small amount of points. There is no way to remove a credit card from your profile once one's been added, unless you add another one. I ended up changing the name, expiration date, and address to entries that aren't correct, but my credit card number is stuck in there forever. That'll teach me.

Re:What the hell?

[Neopoleon]

"Ok, so let me get it straight. Microsoft took a credit card machine, masked it as a game console and shoved it out the door."

Did we read the same article?

I'm just wondering. Xbox Live, while having plenty of for-pay content, also has a lot of free content.

Paying more for services is *optional*.

"I'm sure I will not be picking up a 360 since I really don't like the idea of paying someone everytime I want to change something."

I totally agree about not wanting to "[pay] someone every time I want to change something," which is why I'm perfectly happy with the 360.

I really don't know where you're getting this. Not trying to be a jerk - I just don't.

Re:What the hell?

[iapetus]

That's the other 50%.

And what I want to know is...

[ShatteredDream]

Have the heat-related problems been resolved for the second shipment and if not, what is the timeframe for these problems to be fixed?

Re:And what I want to know is...

[Zonk]

I honestly can't tell you. The "random crashing" that I've heard some people report, and the outright failures, haven't happened for me. Whether that's because I have a second shipment unit, or just luck, I can't say.

I will say, the power brick gets pretty hot. If it was just lying on the carpet, I may have the same heating problems others have reported. By putting it on the open wire mesh of my entertainment unit, I have a lot of air moving over it. So far I haven't had so much as a stutter or slowdown.

Re:And what I want to know is...

[interiot]

I was hearing that only 3 - 5% of people were having problems, so you should be able to find tons of people who report having no problems (eg. I'm one of them, mine is on a solid non-carpeted surface, having no problems).

Re:And what I want to know is...

[Anonymous Coward]

The heat-related problems are overblown.

Re:And what I want to know is...

[Bitmanhome]

Roughly negative ten years. The real problem is the chips that take 100w each, and from now on that's only going to get worse. Hopefully the gadgets will be made more tolerant of high temperatures, but for this gadget and every gadget you buy in the future, you will need to plan carefully for heat disposal.

Re:And what I want to know is...

[Malor]

I have a first-shipment 360, and my power supply brick seems neither as heavy nor as hot as many people have reported. It definitely gets warm: it is, after all, a 200w power supply. But it doesn't get blazing hot, and I don't think it weighs six pounds... maybe three.

Perhaps there's more than one manufacturer?

Re:And what I want to know is...

[2008]

So, how about some experiments in the name of journalism?
Put the power brick on carpet and see how it lasts. Try again in an enclosed space. The heat issue may very well be overblown, but you're writing the review and we'd like to know that it is. If these things are going to spend summer rebooting every hour then they aren't a good purchase.

Re:And what I want to know is...

[Jarlsberg]

I've checked mine a few times this past couple of weeks, but even after a few hours of usage, it still haven't felt hot to the touch. I'm using the European version, so maybe its internals are different, or less heat prone.

Gamertag

[diminico]

I guess he'll find out how well the "Friends" blade area is designed after he gets a few thousand Friend Requests.

Re:Gamertag

[doormat]

You mean to say that there are a few thousand 360s in the hands of /. users?

Re:Gamertag

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess he'll find out how well the "Friends" blade area is designed after he gets a few thousand Friend Requests.

You know you're talking about Zonk, right? I don't foresee this being a problem.

Whither Marketplace?

[thatguywhoiam]

One thing I notice in a lot of the X360 reviews is a big exuberance for the Marketplace idea. Having tried it myself, I came away with two impressions: 1. it is very slick and well-designed, probably the nicest UI design MS has ever done; and 2. I wouldn't put my money in that thing in a million years. It sort of frightens me - Passport has always frightened me. And it is uninteresting on the whole, as far as content goes. Retro gaming is cool and all but I'd rather do that on a handheld. The little downloadable games are cute but familiar and overpriced, and paying for stuff like UI skins is quite daft, IMHO. Yeah I like Penny Arcade too but jeezus why does their content cost 4X as much? I do like the bits about player IDs and whatnot but - maybe its just me, but I like to hide behind my online personas when I go to game. I don't necessarily want to be monitored by my friends and whatnot. (Maybe there is a Hide option?)

So the question is, how much of a value is the X360 if I really couldn't care less about the Live Marketplace? Is it intrinsic to the value of the box or is it a nice add-on? I'm waiting to see what the PS3 can do either way, but if Marketplace is Xbox's 'edge' then its kind of boring. (I have no doubt I will be able to voice-chat and do multiplayer/internet on the Revolution and PS3.)

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[Anonymous Coward]

"One thing I notice in a lot of the X360 reviews is a big exuberance for the Marketplace idea. "

Because that is the type of stuff you talk about when you don't have major console developers putting AAA console selling IP on your system.

It's a lot like someone avoiding a question of how attractive a person is and instead mentions what a great personality they have.

'marketplace'
'custom soundtracks'
'downloadable content' ...
'great personality'

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[sgt scrub]

Is it just me or is there more "I'm waiting to see the others first" talk then ever before?

I'm waiting to see what the PS3 can do either way, but if Marketplace is Xbox's 'edge' then its kind of boring.

I plan to get a PS3 more so I can hack on it; though, I still think it will be a very high quality console.

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[sjelkjd]

>>So the question is, how much of a value is the X360 if I really couldn't care less about the Live Marketplace? You could play your 360 without ever using the market place and you would have a great experience - it's not a core part of any of the games, though from what I understand some games will have optional expansions that can be purchased online. This began even on the classic xbox - Project Gotham Racing 2 had new cars and tracks that you could buy a year after its release for $5. >> 2. I wouldn't put my money in that thing in a million years. Out of curiousity, what frightens you about it? Do you buy stuff at online stores? What's different about the xbox?

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[interiot]

Yes, marketplace is evil in that it can nickel-and-dime you to death, and to some extent is following the ring-tone model that is obviously evil.

But in other ways, the Xbox 360 arcade part of it is a very, very good thing. If you like arcade games, it might be nice to have things be revamped in high-def with a wireless controller. But more importantly, for the first time, it provides smaller companies an outlet to console gaming. Previously, only well-funded companies that could afford to spend the time to develop a well-polished large game worth $50 could jump into the console arena. Now companies can develop content that gets downloaded straight to customers pretty quickly, without having to wait for the retail distribution.

Yeah, this part of console gaming is sort of like PC gaming, but again, it can be very nice to plop down on the sofa with a wireless controller and play a game on your big high-def screen.

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[thatguywhoiam]

Out of curiousity, what frightens you about it? Do you buy stuff at online stores? What's different about the xbox?

Here's the thing. It has to do with Passport, and what MS intends you to use the Xbox360 for.

Theoretically (because this does not really mimic my own life): I spend a lot of time in the living room. I have a shiny new X360. I use it for all the frills; media streaming, most of my game playing (including my audio dialog with other players and friends), watching DVDs, listening to music. All that celestial jukebox stuff. I sign into this thing with my Passport, so they know exactly who I am. And it is connected via a (mandatory) broadband link, pretty much doing as it pleases as far as connecting to the network.

Y'see where I'm going with this? A fairly complete little snapshot of my demographic tastes in software and media. And I'm continually reporting this information to Microsoft.

So yeah, frightened is an understatement. Even if they did not use this very valuable information for nefarious purposes I hardly trust them to even lock it up properly.

I'd be completely cool with everything Live is about if I didn't have to give it my name. But I do, so no go.

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[Anonymous Coward]

Live Arcade is not only about "Retro Gaming". Sure, that's one part of it to pull in the old-skool casual gamer, but the best part of it is that it's a viable channel for indie studios to sell their wares. I think that's something that we can all get behind. I mean, either you're for indie game developers, or you're with the terrorists.

And I don't know why you think it's daft to charge for new UI skins. It's not like it's free to create and host that content. It doesn't magically appear out of thin air.

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[Shaheen]

Yes, we have a "hide" option. If you go to Personal Settings -> Online Status, you can set your status to Away or appear as if you're offline, just like on instant message services.

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[Babbster]

I wonder, what "nefarious" pupose exactly is Microsoft going to accomplish with information about what music you listen to, movies you watch or games you play? Even if they decided to sell this information (a move that would be discovered quickly and would garner them untold amounts of shit, making it unlikely), what would be the net negative effect on you?

I think you're paranoid and I don't think you even know what you're paranoid about. Hell, Microsoft isn't requiring credit card numbers from people anymore so you don't even have to give them any clear identifying information.

I guess I just think it's one thing to be concerned that someone could be tapping your phone or videotaping you inside your house, and quite another to worry if Microsoft knows that you like Britney Spears and watch 'Lesbian Panty Police' over and over again. If I'm not being clear, I think the latter worry is probably a symptom of a piece of wood lodged in the ole rectal orifice - which, by the way, SHOULD be private...

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft going to accomplish with information about what music you listen to, movies you watch or games you play?

Blackmail? "That user, thatguywhoiam, watches Backdoor Sluts 9 at least 4 times a week". Fast forward to the thatguywhoiam compaign for congress. *shrug* What the hell do they need to know that information for, anyway? That's a better question.

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[Babbster]

They probably don't. I haven't seen any evidence that they're collecting and saving that information in the first place. Hence the word "paranoid."

Re:Whither Marketplace?

[thatguywhoiam]

I think you're paranoid and I don't think you even know what you're paranoid about. Hell, Microsoft isn't requiring credit card numbers from people anymore so you don't even have to give them any clear identifying information.

Well, fair enough if you think so - I have been stuck on enough demographic/marketing 'lists' that the idea is disturbing to me. Perhaps you have escaped this fate yourself; getting unending phone calls, junk mail, special offers, a mountain of spam, and other such nuisances are not a price I want to pay just to play video games. Does that make more sense? In other words, pre-Live, I don't have to worry about having my details harvested. Post-Live, that is an issue. Why on earth would I agree to that?

And your second point is not true; you still need to sign in with Passport. I could lie about stuff, sure, but I'd rather just not bother altogether.

If I'm not being clear, I think the latter worry is probably a symptom of a piece of wood lodged in the ole rectal orifice - which, by the way, SHOULD be private...

Sure, think what you like. :) I'm happy to wear the metaphorical tinfoil hat; I have my reasons.

I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[ShyGuy91284]

I'm not a MS fanboy. I'm more of a linux/Mac fanboy, I should hate Microsoft. I don't like how they buy the best (rare, bungie) from the competition, and how they throw much money at getting their consoles popular (celebrities on the XB 360 revealing special on MTV). But from what I've read/heard, I like the XBox 360.... It seems to be much more then a console, and a big step in the direction of a true "set-top box" that I have always dreamed about. Games, PVR (Idk if you can schedule recordings on your WMC PC though), decent downloadable content, pretty good games.... In terms of what would make a new system good (I don't care if PS3 can do this that XBox 360 can't or vice-versa, they are the same generation, and fundamentally the same graphically), I think the XBox 360 did everything pretty good (other then the power brick overheating). In a similar way some of Nintendo's products or the Dreamcast brought on some pretty shocking default features, XBox seems to have a similar unique and good feature set. I don't have one yet, but I hope to get one soon enough.

Re:I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[everphilski]

Brother won one in the Mountain Dew Sweepstakes. Been home for Christmas this week and I've been impressed with it as well. Very slick piece of machinery.

-everphilski-

Re:I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[Doctor_Jest]

Having played on at Best Buy, I must say the controller on the 360 is nice. But I am increasingly feeling alienated from the "big two" when it comes to games. Sure they still produce games, but the idea of the console being a "set top box" that does so much more is just not appealing to me. I guess it's old age setting in, but I prefer a console to be simply a console. I have never used the DVD portion of the Xbox or PS2. I just play games.

That being said, I appreciate others who are interested in the community and whatnot that the 360 is trying to create, but to me, I think they could've shaved off 50% of that online junk and made the games less expensive per title. $60 for a game is pushing it... after the maturity of the market allowed for cheaper games, we are coming full circle again, for whatever reason. It doesn't bode well for buying many titles at once, that is for sure.

I look forward to the Revolution, because Nintendo still has me in mind....someone who just wants to play games.

(Forget the PS3. Sony's RootKit debacle has soured me from ever buying another thing from them.)

Re:I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

Speaking of RARE, I would love to see the original Donkey Kong Country re-done in High-Def (but not changed) and made a Marketplace download for maybe $20 (?) for the XB360. That would kick-ass...I loved that game.

Re:I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[Anonymous Coward]

If you start a sentence with "I'm not a __, but", then you are.

If you're not an MS fanboy, why try to come off as the reluctant consumer? If you really didn't like Microsoft you would stay the hell away from the xbox 360. They're trying to take over a market, and if you get one, you've helped them do it. If you don't like what they've done to you with computers, wait until they control the home entertainment for you and everyone you know. Great! no more choices in the home electonics department, beyond the color of Microsoft Box.

Re:I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[toopc]

I'm not a MS fanboy. I'm more of a linux/Mac fanboy, I should hate Microsoft. I don't like...how they throw much money at getting their consoles popular (celebrities on the XB 360 revealing special on MTV).

Yeah, I know where what you meen. Using celebrites to sell your products is the worse

It's just so lame
when compaines do that

These lame celebrity ads/giveaways/endorsements have got to stop!

Re:I *gasp* Like the 360 I think....

[ShyGuy91284]

Yes, I am being hypocritical in some ways I see. It's a typical marketing campaign though. It just seems like when Microsoft does it that it lacks any of the style or subtleness some of Apple's ads. And it seems like most people Apple pays to promote their product are either people that the iPod exists because of (musicians), or people that may be doing something else with Mac hardware/software (while I've always had this image in my head of Gates handing a celebrity an XBox 360 w/ a bunch of money to say they like it without the actor really having and preferences about it).

If you are still looking

[Anonymous Coward]

for a 360, try this site - GamerMill.com.

let me know when

[wardk]

it plays playstation 2 games. my kid has too many of those to even consider a switch in technology.

and I need to get an MS passport?

pass....

Re:let me know when

[llevity]

it plays playstation 2 games. my kid has too many of those to even consider a switch in technology.

Yeah. It sucks how you have to throw away your PS2 when you buy an Xbox 360. I never understood why we aren't allowed to keep our old consoles so we can play our old games, while still having a new console to play new games on.

Oh. Wait.

Re:let me know when

[Anonymous Coward]

passport = pass until a port is ready on another system

Re:let me know when

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what the original poster meant was that he already spent a lot of fucking money.

Re:let me know when

[asuffield]

I never understood why we aren't allowed to keep our old consoles so we can play our old games, while still having a new console to play new games on.

It's because the xbox is so fricking huge that there's no space in the house for any other consoles.

Re:let me know when

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to move out of your cardboard box.

paid advertiseing.

[Truekaiser]

[sarcasm] nice to see paid advertiseing is still around [/sarcasm]

Re:paid advertiseing.

[korebantic]

If it's not paid advertising, it's certainly sugar coated.

Is this real or an advertisement?

[hackstraw]

I'm not trolling (this usually pads people from being modded as troll for some reason).

But the guy says "I bit the bullet and swiped the plastic." So it appears at first to be a fairly large and potentially risky purchase. I'm not sure of the timeframe here, but it appears as though in a short time this guy has bought every game available, has an HDTV, bought every accessory and online option. Detailed the price of everything. And this was posted by Zonk.

If I'm the only one who is skeptable, so be it mod me to -1 and this will be forgotten, but the sum of the parts don't seem to add up to be a review.

Also, who submitted this thing? Zonk himself? Or did it spontaneously generate from the meant-to-imply-an-in-drawn-breath department?

Re:Is this real or an advertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Also, who submitted this thing? Zonk himself? "

He's gotta pay for that free 360...

Guess even after that barrage of 360 marketing stories over the past couple of months he still has a balance due.

No wonder people are fleeing this dump for http://www.digg.com/

Re:Is this real or an advertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

He's got three games, hardly everything that's currently out. Every accessory? the only accessory I saw mentioned was the included controller. Online component? As he mentioned he already had XBox Live from his old xbox, and anyway you'd be a fool not to get live for the 360. I'm going to assume he already had an HDTV, why would he have to have bought one since getting the 360? Furthermore, most reviews detail the price.

This is obviously a review written by Zonk. You are a paranoid idiot.

Re:Is this real or an advertisement?

[Cheapy]

I'll go through this point by point.

If it was an advert, the math wouldn't have been wrong. Also, he wouldn't have mentioned the negatives, such as the 32-character e-mail address, and the power brick. Or even the King Kong lighting issues.

Regarding the "large and risky investment": I think that was the part that the whole "meant-to-imply-an-in-drawn-breath dept" was referring to.

Where did it say he bought all games available? As far as I can remember, he said he only bought 3 games: King Kong, Call of Duty 2, and Kameo. As well as a few of the Marketplace games.

When someone reviews something, they will do it with the best possible equipment. It isn't that much of a stretch to say that as a geek who reviews a lot of console games, he would have an HDTV.

Concerning the 'detailed math': He got it wrong at the first go.

On who posted it: Yes, Zonk wrote and submitted it. You can usually tell what parts are submitted by outside parties and which parts are added by the editors. The submitted parts are in italics.

In all fairness

[argoff]

This is entertainment, the people who were busted in LA for modding and copying XBOX stuff and are facing hard time, that is real life. IMHO, no amount of copying and moding over a game deserves hard time, there is a serious priority problem here, especially considering that it can be argued that they didn't do anything wrong at all. It's sorta hard to get in the spirit of new product launches with things like this going on.

Re:In all fairness

[wasexton]

You are somewhat correct...and I would agree with you in saying that the modding of the boxes should not be illegal. However, they also put gigs of pirated games on the drive after modding and that makes it difficult for me to support their position.

Re:In all fairness

[Rude Turnip]

"especially considering that it can be argued that they didn't do anything wrong at all."

I won't be losing any sleep over some idiots pirating 70 games at a time per console.

Re:In all fairness

[2nd Post!]

They arguably did do something wrong; whether the punishment was just is a different argument.

They copied 77 games onto harddrives; just because they didn't actually go into Target and take 77 cases from the shelves doesn't stop it from being some sort of theft.

Re:In all fairness

[LegendLength]

IMHO, no amount of copying and moding over a game deserves hard time, there is a serious priority problem here, especially considering that it can be argued that they didn't do anything wrong at all.

Couldn't you make a similar argument about plain old fraud though? To me copying and selling a console or its software is effectively fraud.

Having said that I do not like the idea of jail for any non-violent crime whatsoever. Unfortunately, I would have trouble backing that up with a solid argument.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

Either way, copying is still not stealing. Even if they did it for a profit, it is still not stealing. It is not like other crimes, like where if you stole my car - I wouldn't have it. Or like if you put a gun to my head and forced me to fix your sink, I'd be doing it against my will. Copying stuff, even if for profit, is simply not inherently evil.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

I won't be losing any sleep over some idiots pirating 70 games at a time per console.

Well you should be, because all they did is copy some stuff for their customers - hardly fellony class material. Perhaps calling it "piracy", like they would board ships and attack people makes it seem like they are worse than they really are. I don't know.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

They copied 77 games onto harddrives; just because they didn't actually go into Target and take 77 cases from the shelves doesn't stop it from being some sort of theft.

But it does, because theft is about what one looses, not by what one gains. The loss of a sale ... sure ... but that's not a theft in the slightest.

Re:In all fairness

[patches]

Hmmm, so the loss of a sale isn't theft? Therefore the loss of the profit of the sale isn't theft either. Therefore if I take money from you it isn't stealling????

Or is it that the taking of money from microsoft isn't stealing because they are a large corperation that nobody likes anyway?

This whole line of argument is useless. Wether it is games, or music or what ever. You cannot say that you aren't stealing, because you are. You are depriving the right holders money, and that is the same as stealing money from them.

Re:In all fairness

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of person are you to believe that bullshit? If no one purchased the games there would be no game. The money from the sale of product produces money to produce games.

You want product to be free, obviously, but I'm sure you wouldn't go to work and work all day for free. How would you like it if you did some kind of artwork on a contract basis and some one took it and used it to make money, keeping you from being able to do so?

That's exactly what is going on. The game developers make the game on a virtual contract, that is-- they expect to make the profit AFTER THE PRODUCT IS COMPLETED.

The difference between a car and software is there can only be one instance of a vehicle. A better example would be stealing the plans to a new vehicle from toyota and selling it cheap

Re:In all fairness

[myz24]

You assume a sale was lost. Who's to say they would have bought the game if it wasn't "included"?

I think what the guy says is true, loss of a sale is NOT theft. If that's the case every window shopper in the world is a theif.

Re:In all fairness

[Supurcell]

That's only assuming that the buyers of the modded Xboxes would have bought full-priced retail games. After factoring in the cost of a hard drive and xbox, how much were they actually selling those copied games for? It couldn't be more than a few cents each.

Unless there is something that I really want, I will not buy it at full price. If I happed to find it for a fraction of that cost, I might pick it up.

Re:In all fairness

[2nd Post!]

Because theft is about what one loses, the loss of a sale is therefore theft to the seller.

If you want to argue that copying isn't theft, you also have to agree that any idea you have should be shared for everyone because it isn't theft even if the act of sharing it strips you of the ability to profit from that idea, no matter how brilliant or cool.

According to the prevalent beliefs of the society at large, these men did something wrong. You may disagree, but that is your right. Just like if I took your credit card number and used it; you believe I did something wrong, but maybe I don't. I didn't steal anything; you still have your credit card in your wallet, you still have your money, you still have your stuff. I just copied 12 numbers!

Yet don't you still think it's wrong?

Re:In all fairness

[KDR_11k]

It is. It's profiting from illegal acts. The only possibly justifiable reason to ignore a law is for the greater public good (and even then it's rarely justified). Personal gain is about as low as you can get on the scale of justifications. Evil = Ignoring the well-being of other people in order to further your own well-being.

Re:In all fairness

[KDR_11k]

If you let them get away with that the original author loses his ability to profit from his creations and therefore has no incentive to keep creating anything. There is a reason beyond "we want more money" that copyright was introduced.

Re:In all fairness

[KDR_11k]

I'd say jail is a good punishment for willfully committed crimes. These people knew they were doing something illegal and they did it nonetheless. Accidentally violating some law noone really understands or knows about is understandable, knowing that you will run afoul of the law and continuing anyway in order to profit is not and jailtime is a good deterrent.

Re:In all fairness

[mgoff]

Hmmm, so the loss of a sale isn't theft?

Exactly. For example, if my boss makes me work late, and a restaurant at which I had planned to eat dinner is closed, it's not theft. "Theft" and "steal" have very precise definitions that involve the taking propery that also deprives someone of that property.

You cannot say that you aren't stealing, because you are. You are depriving the right holders money, and that is the same as stealing money from them.

Intellectual property crimes are illegal, and they may or may not be immoral, but they are not "theft," "stealing," nor the same as stealing money.

Re:In all fairness

[Anonymous Coward]

Did the customers pay for the original? If not, then they did steal from the producer. You keep parroting the same lines over the last couple of days, but you can't support your position.

You don't want to have to pay for intellectual property. We all get it. Now get off your soapbox.

Re:In all fairness

[lumber_13]

ohh its actually 16 numbers (15 in case of amex).

Re:In all fairness

[JaxGator75]

You're not paying attention... He already SAID that it IS stealing, so that's that. . .

Re:In all fairness

[masdog]

Theft is about both what one loses and another gains. Saying it is only about loss is just like looking at one half of an equation.

While the loss of a sale is not entirely a big deal (companies lose sales all the time...), losing the sale and having the customer come into possession of what you were selling is a big deal.

So to make this work, lets remove the middle man. It doesn't matter if Customer A goes to Walmart, Best Buy, or Ma and Pa's game shop to get the item. The game designer/publisher is still getting the sale.

Lets say I decide that I don't want to pay the going rate for the game, but I must absolutely have it. So I rent the game and burn myself a copy, or I download a disc image off of Bittorrent or Edonkey. What have I just done here?

I have taken an item that I had no rights to and deprived the publisher of compensation for their hard work. I have taken something and not compensated them for it. You say that the producer hasn't suffered a loss, but they have. They lose income that they can use to pay their programmers and produce more content.

Lets say you're an artist of some kind such as a photographer, and you depend on the income from the sale of your photographs to feed your family and survive. Say you take a spectacular image that everyone wants to have on their wall. You sell some prints of this image, but one of your customers takes that image, scans it, and places it on the Internet for anyone to freely download. Now what has that done to you? That has just undermined compensation for your work.

This is what you don't understand. You see companies and corporations as faceless, profit consuming entities that have no connection to you. But these same entities employ programmers and other people who want to survive and feed their families. If you copy their goods, they won't be able to do that.

Perhaps I have oversimplified, but if there is an error in my analogy, please point it out.

Re:In all fairness

[kasek]

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=171817&c id=14311545

so, tell me, what exactly is the point of copying and pasting someone elses comment? you saw a comment modded insightful, and figured you could get your own copied post modded up as well?

ass.

Re:In all fairness

[damsa]

You by renting the game has deprived the game maker of profits. If deprevation of profits is considered theft why is game renting and lending your physical copy legal. Because it is a copyright violation, not theft. Thank you.

Re:In all fairness

[Anonymous Coward]

You are depriving the right holders money, and that is the same as stealing money from them.

So if I decide not to see the latest holywood blockbuster because I think it's ass, I am depriving the RIAA of money, and am therefor a thief? Hell, they're depriving me of money by not mailing me $20 bills, the thieving bastards.

Re:In all fairness

[rbaird]

There is one flaw in your game rental equals theft idea. Rental companies *gasp* get permission from the developer. They are paying what the game developer considers fair value for renting it.

Re:In all fairness

[damsa]

Nope, rental companies do not need permission from the copyright holder. Please see the First Sale Doctrine.

Re:In all fairness

[Dhar]

Well, seeing as someone was posting about how copying wasn't stealing, I thought I'd see what I could stir up by copying from them...but not stealing!

ass.

-g.

Re:In all fairness

[jgoemat]

You are depriving the right holders money,

Ah, changing words around again. By copying a game illegally, you are not taking anything from the company. Point to one thing that the company did have and now it does not after you copied that game. If you decide not to buy the game after copying it, and you would have otherwise, then that is a sale that they would have made but did not. It is not theft or stealing however because the money was never in the company's hands. It may be like stealing, but unless that word has changed definitions, it is not.

Look at it another way... Let's say you are a high school student to lower-middle class parents and you copy Photoshop CS 2 illegally (retail about $600). You would never have bought the software legally anyway, so it is definitely not stealing since you are in no way depriving the company of money. It still is copyright violation however.

Re:In all fairness

[pommiekiwifruit]

And by the publishers definition of "theft", the bosses of various major retail stores should be jailed for selling second-hand "pre-owned" versions of games (especially at the expense of new games). The retailer makes more selling second hand games but the publisher and the developer get nothing. The games industry is in fact arguing this at the moment, but is restricted by the inconvenient fact that "theft" is not defined the way many people would have you believe.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

It is. It's profiting from illegal acts. The only possibly justifiable reason to ignore a law is for the greater public good (and even then it's rarely justified). Personal gain is about as low as you can get on the scale of justifications. Evil = Ignoring the well-being of other people in order to further your own well-being.

But that's the point, this isn't about maximizing revenue for certain entertainment sectors, it's about freedom from information controlls in the information age. Maybe the entertainment industry will suffer becasue of that ... it's a small price to pay.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

no, if I coppied a madonna cd and claimed to have wrote it, or claimed to be madonna when I didn't or wasn't then that would be fraud... but copying is just copying, there is nothing fradulent about it.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

According to the prevalent beliefs of the society at large, these men did something wrong. You may disagree, but that is your right. Just like if I took your credit card number and used it; you believe I did something wrong, but maybe I don't....

If you took my credit card and used it, then you using money would deprive me of that same money ... not so with simple plain content. That is a fact, not an opinion. Bottom line, or fact is that information has one set of natural characteristics and real property another. The opinions of society will not change that or the morality that accompanies that.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

...I have taken an item that I had no rights to and deprived the publisher of compensation for their hard work. ...

No you havent, no amount of work on any product obligates a purchase. Anyone could see that if it was a physical item, and I went home and carpentered a replica for myself - that there is nothing wrong with that, but then all of a sudden they want the non physical items to have even more restrictive rules than the physical ones. Sorry, but the nature of the universe disagrees with you.

Lets say you're an artist of some kind such as a photographer, and you depend on the income from the sale of your photographs to feed your family and survive. Say you take a spectacular image that everyone wants to have on their wall. You sell some prints of this image, but one of your customers takes that image, scans it, and places it on the Internet for anyone to freely download. Now what has that done to you? That has just undermined compensation for your work.

That is very knee jerk if not irrelavent, even if they made all made photo money that way, there is no inherent right to restrict what people copy for whatever sweet reason one might offer. Maybe you won't get compensation unless you can restrict peoples speech too, so what?

Re:In all fairness

[masdog]

However, in order to gain the right to rent the item to another, they have to purchase the item.

Re:In all fairness

[2nd Post!]

Credit cards are not debit cards. If I had taken your debit card number I would have taken your money.

With your credit card number I have taken NONE of your money.

Your credit rating, maybe, but not your money.

I'm only copying a number here, not STEALING.

Just like these guys; copying bits onto a harddrive, not stealing.

Re:In all fairness

[Minna Kirai]

It's profiting from illegal acts.

That's still NOT THEFT. Or do you think that prostitution and cocaine dealing are "theft"? By your logic, all crimes, including speed-limit violations, are theft.

Evil =

Once again, you use different words. Whether or not something is "evil" is irrelevant to it being "theft". Theft can sometimes be good (if the victim is herself sufficiently evil).

Re:In all fairness

[2nd Post!]

If you are salaried and aren't paid compensation, your boss has stolen, arguably, the most valuable substance known to man.

Time.

It is one of the most priceless things in existence because it cannot be manufactured, reclaimed, or regained. It can only be used, lost, and given, and you have a limited amount of it.

Re:In all fairness

[Anonymous Coward]

> However, in order to gain the right to rent the item to another, they have to purchase the item.

But if I buy a game and lend (or rent) it to my friend who would have purchased it himself otherwise, am I depriving the right holders money? Am I causing them to "lose" a sale? Am I stealing from them?

Re:In all fairness

[KDR_11k]

He said it's not evil. I disagreed.

Copying stuff, even if for profit, is simply not inherently evil.

While you might be able to read that as "copying is not evil as long as it's legal" that doesn't seem to be his intention.

Re:In all fairness

[leland242]

I half-agree with you. Some yahoo's selling pirated games to the 12 people that shop in thier mom & pop gamestore do not deserve jailtime.

Some Enron exec who defauds gobs of money and causes people to lose their retirement accounts...well, they should go to poundmeintheass prison.

Both crimes are non-violent...yet one is clearly worse than the other.

Finally, to ensure I'm modded offtopic, it goes without saying that non-violent drug offenses (read: marijuana arrests) should never go to jail.

Re:In all fairness

[stevejs]

This post and it's parent are insightful and informative only if you call rationalizing breaking the law informative. There are lot's of controversial and interesting subjects about intellectual property and changing technology. Copying video games (to a hard drive) and selling the result is not one of them. It's just illegal. No amount of semantic word play drivel can change that. It might be worthwhile to recognize that the same copyright law that protects the author's of those video games is what allows GPL and LGPL, and every other open source license. It is not ok to ignore the license just because you don't agree with it.

Re:In all fairness

[argoff]

I think it's more like the people who impose copyrights are using the law to rationalize poor choices and coercive behavior. Some say there no "incentive", call people thiefs and pirates, and declare it their property yet it still doesn't chnge the fact that property rights exist to allocate limited resources and not to choke off supply for the sake of "incentive". Perhaps some think that information should have limits in supply for the sake of incentive, not good for them that the natural universe disagrees with them. Maybe the law says gravity pulls upward too, but it would be a poor choice to bet on it, even worse to say those who ignored that law were rationalizing law breaking. What about physical and natural laws?

PS: that's not what RMS (the father of the GPL) said when I last met with him.

essay: Straight Talk About Copyrights

Console vs PC

[the computer guy nex]

"Sounds like it's halfway decent compared to what i initially expected. It's still too expensive for me though. I'll buy it in a couple years when you can get them for 200 bucks... I'm not that into console gaming. I'd rather take a ride down to the range and shoot for REAL. (or boot up my PC and get better controls and better graphics that i don't have to sit on the couch to see)" I hope you aren't consistently upgrading your PC to meet the hardware demands of newer games.

You would be much better off buying a console like this. The 360, starting at 300$, will be more powerful than any 2000$ gaming PC can be for many years. The video card itself is mower powerful than anything on the PC market, plus each game utilizes all 3 3.2ghz processors.

Even if faster processors come out than these 3.2 ghz ones, no PC games ever use more than 1. You get so much power from these custom made 360 games targetting each processor core.

The 360 is an excellent system, and there is a reason why there were people waiting in line for 20 hours last Sunday a month after the actual launch.

Re:Console vs PC

[laffer1]

If it were really 300 hundred dollars, I'd have one now. If you consider the fact you would be a fool to buy the low end model, plus the cost of games, its quite expensive just for gaming. A 2000 dollar pc might not be as good as this unit now, but in 3 years it will be. I can use the 2000 dollar pc for other activities like software development, word processing, and it even allows me to use competing technologies and games. My pc can run iTunes, firefox, and run enemy territory.

You are correcct that the targeted smp support is very impressive. That is the key feature of the xbox 360 to me. However, with dual core cpus ending up in gamer's systems, we will see a change in this area. Blizzard, id, valve, and any other developer will need to support SMP in future engines to compete. This xbox might get us there sooner.

I don't think the video card is as good as you claim though. Microsoft bought it, so it must use current or soon to be current technologies.

Re:Console vs PC

[Jarnis]

Odd. My dual core is being used by at least half dozen games already. Say, City of Heroes for example.

And since all future big name title development will be based on capabilities of PS3 and/or Xbox360, its pretty easy to see the game engines being multithreaded. Multi core CPUs are 'free' extra performance as long as the engine is developed as multithreaded.

Consoles are fine for some game types, but as long as they don't have a keyboard (and good MMOs), there's always room for PCs. You also won't see complex strategy titles on consoles, and FPS without mouse aiming will just never work. Halo is just the exception that proves the point.

If I want to have a quick spin on arcade driving game, console is a great thing to have for that.

I'd never play a FPS or strategy game, or anything requiring typing on a console.

Different tool for a different job. Both have their place. However, if you can afford just one thing, PC is more of a multipurpose tool, and if you are going to buy a good PC for work/'production use', the required addon of a 300-400$ videocard on top of the otherwise pretty standard PC is no different than the price of a console system.

Disclaimer: I have one decked out game PC, one midrange game/utility PC, PS2 and half dozen older consoles. Never touched Xbox (not enough exclusive titles I couldn't play on PS2 or PC), undecided on XBox 360 and/or PS3 - I can wait until next autumn as Xbox360 currently has no must-have exclusive title. I can play CoD2 or King Kong also on my PC, and I like the 1600x1200 res better.

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct me if Im wrong but I thought I read somewhere that NONE of the launch titles for Xbox 360 were multi-threaded? I believe the upcoming ES4:Oblivion will be, though. But considering it will be released on PC at the same time, Id assume it will utilize multithreading on AMD X2s and 820d P4s.

Re:Console vs PC

[garcia]

The 360 is an excellent system, and there is a reason why there were people waiting in line for 20 hours last Sunday a month after the actual launch.

The system might be excellent but from what I've seen, the games that are *currently* out there just don't make it worthwhile to stand in line for hours on end (especially here in Minnesota where it's cold).

From what I have seen (based on the various displays in and around my home area), if it's not being displayed on a huge HD monitor, the graphics just aren't all that much different from what we've seen in the XBox 1 or the PS2. I personally don't know a single person with an HD monitor, nevermind one that's as large as those they display the 360 on in the stores. I know I will never have an HD monitor in my home so I'm not sure what benefit the 360 has for most people RIGHT now to stand in those long lines other than MS-funded and media-created hype.

Re:Console vs PC

[Jarnis]

Not to mention that PC CoD2 is over 20 euros cheaper than the overpriced XBox 360 version (I've seen PC version as low as 44.95 euros, while Xbox360 version suggested retail price is whopping 69.95 euros. Dunno if the 360 games are more sanely priced in the US. In europe they're 65-70 euros a pop - which in my humble opinion is beyond the pain threshold for most buyers)

I sincerely hope PS3 games won't be so horribly overpriced. 50 euros for normal title, 60 euros for exceptional uber hit is already pushing it, while every 360 title is over 60.

Re:Console vs PC

[Xugumad]

You would be much better off buying a console like this. The 360, starting at 300$, will be more powerful than any 2000$ gaming PC can be for many years. The video card itself is mower powerful than anything on the PC market, plus each game utilizes all 3 3.2ghz processors.

The graphics card appears to be a slightly boosted Radeon X1800, and can be expected to be beaten by top of the range PC cards in another 3-4 months. As for games using all three processors, not the launch games according to:

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000890065328/

And, even if they were, did you miss the last decade of people screaming "Megahertz myth!

Don't get me wrong, the XBox 360 is a damn impressive system, and incredible value for money, but I don't think it's going to be staying ahead of top of the range PCs for more than 6-12 months...

Re:Console vs PC

[empvirus]

But you have forgotten the nicer parts to owning a computer. 1. You don't have to agree to anything to own a computer. 2. You can do whatever you please with it. 3. A computer can serve more purposes than just gaming (although that is a primary function for mine). etc.

Need I go on?

Re:Console vs PC

[tony1343]

Wow, that is a rip off. The most expensive XBox 360 games in the US according to Bestbuy.com are $60. The Euro is worth more than the US Dollar. A 70 Euro game is $83.55. They are ripping you Europeans off. Of course, I guess everything in Europe is more expensive. I also, I admit, have just about no understanding of how currency exchances and such work. Since everything is more expensive in Europe, do Europeans make more money at their jobs? If so, a Brittish person should work his ass off for a few years living like a bum, and then move to America.

Re:Console vs PC

[Billly Gates]

Those graphics sure looked better than anything my athlonXP 24++ with my geforce6600 can produce.

So I am doubtfull if it can be matched. Maybe the pc is just not a good gaming platform as it once was. Maybe Windows just sucks the performance out of gaming

Re:Console vs PC

[TinyManCan]

In the philosphpy of "anecdote != data" I will add my anecdote.

I live on the East Side of Seattle, and know very few people that do _NOT_ have HD televisions or displays.

To these people, the 360 (and the PS3) present compelling enough visual improvements to make them worth while.

HD Sets are falling in price rapidly, and will be the norm for American homes sooner than later. That is why the console makers are embracing it.

Re:Console vs PC

[Stupendoussteve]

My dual core AMD and my nvidia 7800 disagree with you.

Call of Duty 2 looks much better on my PC than it does when I play it at the gaming store on their HDTV.

I will not buy an xbox 360, as most anything I would play will also come out onto the PC.

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

the graphics just aren't all that much different from what we've seen in the XBox 1 or the PS2

Sorry, but you just lost all credibility. The graphics on the Xbox and PS2 are dramatically different. And if you are going to compare PS2 graphics to 360 graphics, please know what you are talking about beforehand.

Re:Console vs PC

[garcia]

Sorry, but you just lost all credibility. The graphics on the Xbox and PS2 are dramatically different. And if you are going to compare PS2 graphics to 360 graphics, please know what you are talking about beforehand.

You're an AC, what credibility do you have? None. I've seen the unit on display. I'm unimpressed.

Re:Console vs PC

[boskone]

Also, to the GP, your price likely includes taxes. Just to give you a reference, here's what US prices look like:

360 games = $60 USD plus "sales tax" in most states of about 7% = $64 USD
Xbox 1 titles (when new) were $50 plus sales tax = $53 USD

I think most european countries have a hidden VAT (value added tax) built into that price of $83. I've heard that VAT is around 17% in many parts of western europe and this would explain much of the price difference.

Re:Console vs PC

[freshman_a]

Oh boy, you've seen it on display.

I'm not an AC, and my roommmate owns an Xbox360. He also has an Xbox and I have a PS2. We have them all hooked up next to each other. There's a difference between graphics on the Xbox and PS2, and graphics on the Xbox360.

And FWIW, I know quite a few people with HD-TVs. And most have it for no other reason that to watch sporting events (which would be my main reason for getting one). Having a gaming system that supports HD is just a bonus.

But to each his own, I guess...

Re:Console vs PC

[Saige]

That Joystiq article has been confirmed wrong by multiple game developers.

Heck, even the little marketplace game Geometry Wars uses multiple cores.

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need credibility when you're demonstrably right.

Now, I don't give a fuck for the xbox 360 either, and I've never seen one hooked up to a standard-definition display so I'm happy to say I don't know what I'm talking about as far as the xbox 2 goes and ignore that part of the discussion.

What I do know is that anyone paying more than cursory attention to the graphics of the xbox and the PS2 will see that the xbox has sharper, often smoother and more detailed graphics. I'm not making any kind of fanboy point here (if anything I'd rather buy a PS2, graphics be damned), all I'm saying is that the other AC is right: you pretty clearly aren't qualified to judge graphics. I'm obviously not saying you aren't able to make purchasing decisions for yourself based on your own perceptions, just that you have no business making any claims in public about graphics - your opinion won't be reflected by the majority.

If you want more proof that I'm not imagining these things, try reading some reviews of cross-platform games. I just read the IGN.com reviews of Monkey Ball Deluxe yesterday - the PS2 version scores lower since the PS2 can't keep the framerate up whereas the xbox can.

Posted anonymously - I have a username, but my point stands equally well if I put a tick in that box. Where a fact comes from makes no difference to its validity.

Re:Console vs PC

[Groove Holmes]

Regarding HD - you can get a VGA display adapter for the 360 so you can run it at 1280x1024 resolution on your monitor. So if you're like me and you have a crappy old TV but a real nice monitor you're in luck.

Re:Console vs PC

[iapetus]

You've clearly never owned a computer. Or if you have, you failed to read the license agreements. :P

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

The 360, starting at 300$, will be more powerful than any 2000$ gaming PC can be for many years.

Complete rubbish. A $2000 gaming PC (for example, AMD64 4800+ w/ 7800GTX in SLI) will completely outperform the 360 in ALL situations. Period. And this sort of computer has been available for several months already.

The video card itself is mower powerful than anything on the PC market

Not even close. The xbox 360 GPU is a stripped down, modified R520. It's actually weaker than the top of the line X1800XT (it's clocked at only 500mhz vs 625mhz and has only a 128 bit bus vs 256, its memory is also slower). A 7800GTX, which again, has been available for many months is superior.

The 360 is an excellent system, and there is a reason why there were people waiting in line for 20 hours last Sunday a month after the actual launch.

Check this guy's post history. Biggest MS astroturfer around!

Re:Console vs PC

[empvirus]

Yeah, but that's only if you really believe the EULA is binding in any way.

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

err, and how much did your video cards cost and how big of a screen do you play them on?

Re:Console vs PC

[AlexMax2742]

Honestly, was the PS2 any different. I don't recall ANY system in recent memory that had a lineup that made the system worth purchasing right off the bat. Do what I do, just wait until they come down in price, and buy them when they're cheap. Then you get the system and a decent selection good games for a fraction of the price.

Re:Console vs PC

[Jarnis]

Correct. Over here, VAT (Value Added Tax, our version of Sales TAx) is enjoyable 22%

It still doesn't fully explain the difference if you take into account current exchange rate. It's more like '1:1 conversion USD->EUR, then add tax'.

Re:Console vs PC

[iapetus]

The same holds true for the licenses you agree to on consoles.

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

I do want to point out that 1080i is 1920x1080, vs your preferred 1600x1200.

  I personnaly prefer widescreen gaming, and hate to be forced into anything different. COD2 does, in fact, look quite good in 720p or 1080i with 4xaa on my sexbox 360. I also like my PC games at 1920x1200 on my 24" Monitor, but unless you've got a rediculous machine (which it sounds like you might), you can't run COD2 as smoothly and detailed as the 360 can.

Agian, not saying you didn't know the resolution of the HD standards... but most people who have played games in widescreen will never want to go back.

Also. You can use a keyboard for typing on the 360. Bring on the MMO's!

Re:Console vs PC

[Jarnis]

Yes, you can use keyboard with 360. Let me know when a first game comes out that actually makes use of it.

1080i is, a: interlaced and b: requires a VERY VERY VERY expensive TV set. Ridiculously expensive here in Europe. I already got my 1600x1200 TFT display for PC use :)

But I do agree - Xbox 360 is a step to the right direction as far as high resolution support goes.

Re:Console vs PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I'm not sure about Europe, but in Canada you can get a TV set that does 1080i for $600 CAD, which is less than $450 Euros.

Re:Console vs PC

[Jarnis]

Heh, normal 720p widescreen LCD displays (30 inch or something like that) is over 1500 euros here (includes the 22% VAT).

Re:Console vs PC

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Actually, in three years, that $2000 pc you bought today will barely be capable of running the newest games available on the market.

Can a $2000 PC you purchased three years ago run F.E.A.R.? Or CivIV? Not if you haven't upgraded it in that time period, which makes it then a greater than $2000 PC.

On the other hand, three years later, that big ugly $300 Xbox can run Doom3, Far Cry Instincts, and all the latest games just fine. The same will hold true for the 360. Not to mention that because it's a closed box, the games released for the 360 will be far more optimized, actually multi-threaded, and will be far superior to the games available on the system now.

Bottom line, in three years you'll have to throw away or substantially upgrade that $2000 PC in order to play the latest and greatest games. In three years time, you'll have to do nothing other than purchase the DVD to play the latest and greatest 360 games.

Re:Console vs PC

[laffer1]

except console games near the end of the their life cycle fall short on graphics compared to pc releases. A three year old pc only needs a graphics card upgrade to play most newer games. Beyond three years and you're right. My original point was that a pc is more valuable because you can use it for more things than just gaming.

Your xbox 360 will not get improved graphics or sound during that 3 year period. Games however will starting pushing the limits of the hardware sooner than the 3 year period. Does the original xbox blow out a 3 year old 2000 dollar pc? I don't think so. You will also need to buy hardware for that xbox 360 during the 3 years like memory cards, etc. Its not like the spending stops. You also have the investment in xbox live time which could go into upgrading a pc.

Re:Console vs PC

[Rancidlunchmeat]

I agree the PC can be used for things other than just gaming, so that gives them an extra inherent benefit.

However, I disagree that the $300 Xbox doesn't blow away a three year old $2000 PC. It most certainly does. Without upgrades, a PC that cost you $2000 three years ago can't come close to matching the quality of DoomIII or Far Cry Instincts, both of which the Xbox can render.

Can the Xbox render those games as well as a $2000 PC today? Of course not, but that's not really a fair comparison.

Also, I have never purchased a single hardware upgrade for my Xbox since I purchased it, and don't plan on ever upgrading hardware on the 360 (if I ever buy one). I've got a HDD. Why would I need memory cards?

The real sticking point is that you will have to upgrade that $2000 PC in three years (probably before) if you want to play the latest and greatest games. You won't have to do that for the 360, all you need to do is buy the new DVD which will still have improved performance because of optimizations, multi-threading, etc.

Hell, if you spent $2000 on a PC three years ago, you can't even upgrade it at this point. You need to throw it away and buy an entirely new one due to extreme advances in PCI-E, multi-core processors, DDRII, Sata, etc.

Where others have gone before

[Anonymous Coward]

Today I have for you a rundown on what it's like to go where others have gone before.

Was it good and how much did "it" cost?

All they asked for...

[donnz]

The setup wizard asked for little more than the time zone and my Passport account

I stopped reading (and purchasing) at this point...

Re:All they asked for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, who are you foolin'? As if you were really going to buy a 360 but changed your mind when you found about Passport.

Re:All they asked for...

[interiot]

You can set up a completely separate passport account for your XBox if you want. Also, AFAIK, you had to do this with your original XBox as well. Also, it has other side benefits, like allowing you to post on online forums with your gametag, and being able to show off your gamercard to others. This really isn't any different than how it is in the WoW forums, where you post with your in-game handle and stats.

Re:All they asked for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, AFAIK, you had to do this with your original XBox as well.

No, you didn't.

Re:All they asked for...

[donnz]

Christ, an omniscient anonymouse, who'da thunk it?

Re:All they asked for...

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

You didn't need a Passport. But you did have an account with Microsoft (which would've been a problem for some people, though why are people so Passport-phobic anyway?), and more relevantly, you did need a Passport linked to your Gamertag to access stuff like online statistics for Halo 2, etc.

(No, you don't need a gamertag to view online stats. But there are a few features, the Game Viewer IIRC, that require you to be signed in.)

Re:All they asked for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well...were you planning on buying a 360?

Re:All they asked for...

[Anonymous Coward]

He said he stopped reading the article, not stopped thinking about buying an xbox360.

Generic subject

[Quiet_Desperation]

Kameo has gotten a lot of mixed reviews since the 360 launched, and with good reason. On one hand, it has beautiful cartoony graphics. The world evokes a sense of wonder, and the characters that inhabit the various realms are all kind of goofy-looking. On the other hand, it's a violent game with a decent amount of gore.

So where's the negative?

Re:Generic subject

[iapetus]

So where's the negative?

The controls. The fact that it mostly doesn't give off a next-gen feel - seems very similar to the sort of thing you've seen already on the XBox. Typical Rare characters. Infuriating camera.

Re:Generic subject

[Quiet_Desperation]

I did hear that. Kameo was one of two games making me think about a getting a 360, but all the reviews trashed the controls, especially some underwater level later in the game. Honestly, can't the game developer community get together and get that right? There's stuff out there like Ratchet & Clank where you forget you're even holding a controller it's so perfect. I *can* be done.

The other game was Oblivion which got pushed out til '06. Oh well. Sorry Microsoft.

Re:Generic subject

[iapetus]

Don't let me put you off - I've had a good time playing Kameo so far (though I'm just hitting the section of the game that annoys the hell out of most people - why oh why must there always be an underwater world?). Just pointing out the negatives that will be mentioned about the game. They're all mild irritations rather than gamebreakers, though.

Visualizer

[IronChef]

How is the music visualizer?

Re:Visualizer

[Anonymous Coward]

The visualizer is cool as hell. The menu for it is sparse but you can use the joysticks to change the directions of the visualizaiton background and foreground(each joystick controls a different aspect). The top left and top right buttons on the back of the controller adjust major styles and the D-pad controls minor variations. If you don't provide any input it will be respectable but if you want awesome visualizations you can pick up a controller and get as hyperdelic with the visualizations as you want. The resolution color are nice on full screen HDTV 42" LCD screen.

I dj and I'm honestly considering getting a 360 and a projector just for visualizations. I'm going to wait to see how the ps3's visualizations go though.

Re:Visualizer

[Anonymous Coward]

While I'm not usually a metoo-er, I also want to know about this. Someone pls pay attention to this post and tell us if the visualizer as fun as I imagine some techno and some drugs would make it.

Re:Visualizer

[Psiven]

Or you can just pay $50 for the PC version of Neon.

I'm too lazy...

[Anonymous Coward]

...to read the article. All I want to know is, did it score 8/10?

I keed, I keed...

Demand must be gone because I cant sell mine

[jaygatsby27]

I have a core system with a bunch of games and I can't sell it to save my life. The demand must have gone completely away.

Now it all makes sense...

[tgd]

The dupes happen when you're looking over your shoulder before clicking! ;-)

Re:Now it all makes sense...

[metlin]

Life or dupe situation, eh? ;)

Re:I *gasp* celebrities promoting products!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Microsoft sucks for paying celebrities to push their product... I mean, Apple would never do that, right? Ohhhh... wait a minute! U2 pushes Apple products and so do a boat-load of actors - all of whom are paid handsomely for their time... and let's not forget the product placement budget at Apple which must be quite large considering every single computer you see in movies is an Apple. You can be sure the producers aren't doing that for free. But yeah, you're right - it's just wrong of MS to use celebrity power to increase the popularity of their products.

Are you enjoying them on a free Samsung HDTV?

[Anonymous Coward]

Zonk, from what I can tell you never did acknowledge nor deny anything about getting a free HDTV from Microsoft when they gave them away to attendants at their 2005 Game Developer Conference keynotes.

Re:Guy Wastes Money On Crappy Console.

[jasonditz]

There's only one game I'm interested in seeing for the 360, and that's TES IV. If that's not a world-beater of a game, I'm waiting for my PS3 (getting the Rev at launch is a matter of course)

How did you take the screenshots?

[Caspian]

(Or where did you steal them from?)

I guess we love Microsoft this week ...

[Buran]

... so what's the deal with Sony and SCO at the moment?

gamertag

[dmf415]

I think the question we REALLY WANT TO KNOW is will his Gamertag be slashdotted!!!!!!

Pfft

[DracroniC]

My 360 has been left on for 29 days straight, power brick laying on my hardwood floor and my apartment all hot as hell. And guess what, not 1 freeze ever not any issues - other than my wireless controller finally died.

Re:Pfft

[Anonymous Coward]

The fire marshall called - he says they traced the origin to a rectangular spot on your hardwood floor.

Re:Pfft

[DracroniC]

Lol, nah, its been kicked around too much for it ever to have enough time to burn into my floor, I'm actually quite impressed I haven't broken it yet

Avoiding Thug Companies

[phriedom]

Ok, so you're going to avoid:
Microsoft, both XBox and Windows PCs
Nintendo, they strong arm their suppliers and developers
Sony, they make everything proprietary and tie developers into exclusive releases to limit customer choice, and they are going to be putting the customer-unfriendly Blu-Ray into the PS3.
EA, the biggest publisher is notorious for overworking their employees, and just did the very anti-competitive exclusive contracts with the NFL, ESPN and NHL. They don't even want to use the ESPN brand, they just wanted to take it away from Sega.

So who is on the whitelist? I think Id Software makes a Linux version of their games. I think that is it for Tier-One games. I'm sure knowledgeable people could list "great" games made for Linux, but I think Quake and Doom titles would be the only ones that cracked the Top 10 in the last 5 years that qualify as "thug-free." I'd get pretty bored playing only those games.

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[argoff]

I was more thinking of the xbox incident that happened a few days ago where some people were arrested and are facing hard time for simply modding and copying stuff onto xboxes. For christ sake, it is just a game.

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[Anonymous Coward]

the organisation you're thinking of is the Government then...

The copyright holder doesn't get to choose the sentence you know...

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[hurfy]

hehe in that case you should be making MS and friends quite happy :)

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[No2Gates]

Yes they were modding, but they were also loading games onto the hard drive that were not purchased. Therein lies the big "no-no"... It's just a game, but if nobody bought them, nobody would be able to play them.

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[argoff]

Yes they were modding, but they were also loading games onto the hard drive that were not purchased. Therein lies the big "no-no"... It's just a game, but if nobody bought them, nobody would be able to play them.

What "no no" ... hard time for just copying stuff? It's just entertainment, the loss of some is a small price to pay for freedom of information in the information age.

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[phriedom]

"What "no no" ... hard time for just copying stuff? It's just entertainment, the loss of some is a small price to pay for freedom of information in the information age."

Well, first of all, I think it is a lot easier to call it a "small price to pay" when it is someone else's money. If it were your money, you might think differently. And secondly, I don't see how punishing people for selling things they don't own does anything to hurt freedom of information.

I hate the DMCA too, and I hate the government backing up commercial copy protection schemes with laws that deny customers their property rights. But the DMCA is coincident with this case. These guys were selling games they didn't have a right to.

Now I don't like to see non-violent crimes that happen to have a computer involved or some other particular issue raised to the level of punishment that should be reserved for violent crime. But I wouldn't object to these guys being punished in the same ballpark as a car thief.

Re:Avoiding Thug Companies

[argoff]

rather than rehash ... http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169258&cid=141 07894

What if you don't want Live?

[payndz]

I'm genuinely curious about this. I have an Xbox (original flavour). Right now, I have no interest in getting a 360 because the software lineup does nothing for me, but that's beside the point.

What I'm interested in is: if you don't want (or can't access) Live, then is it even worth getting a 360 at all? From TFA, the whole 360 experience seems to be focused on Live from the first time you power up, right down to needing a Passport account. Frankly, I have zero interest in playing against other people online, or buying skins, or getting Gamer Tags or custom icons, or any of that. But since the games appear to revolve around exactly that kind of thing on Live, would it basically mean throwing money away on a game that I'd never see half of?

Re:What if you don't want Live?

[Winterblink]

I don't have a 360, but I'm looking to get one at some point when the insanity dies down.

While it may seem like the focus is on Live, it's not a REQUIREMENT. Live (Gold membership) will track your achievements and show associated bling no your gamercard. You also need Gold to play online against other players. Beyond that, it's not going to get you anything for games that you will only be playing the single player content.

In short, they've made it a centerpiece for the console experience as a whole, but it's by no means a requirement if you just want to buy a game and play it yourself.

Personally, I think they're doing enough interesting things with the Live service to merit the subscription. The online play thing is one thing, but they have games for purchase that looked interesting to me. Plus if more games allow co-op play over Live, it might be pretty fun to play through some games with buddies.

Re:What if you don't want Live?

[Anonymous Coward]

What I'm interested in is: if you don't want (or can't access) Live, then is it even worth getting a 360 at all?

The two biggest selling points for the 360 are Live and High Definition video.

If you don't want (or can't access) Live and don't have HD-TV, don't bother upgrading to 360 until it has one or more 'killer' games you can't live without; because without Live or HD-TV, it's just an expensive XBox.

Re:What if you don't want Live?

[jaygatsby27]

I have a 360 and in hindsight I might have waited a little while, not because I don't love it but because the regular xbox was just fine. What I love is the wireless. wireless controllers. wireless internet connection works well. But those are small things that could be achieved with an xbox. If you get the 360, do what I do, buy some good xbox games that are compatible with the 360 instead of spending 60 a piece on the 360 games. i bought 6 used games, mostly tom clancy splinter cell, for under 70 dollars shipped. Those will go a long way, even on a 360.

Re:What if you don't want Live?

[craigd88]

My Question about Live is this: You pay something like $70 a year for a subscription? Is that right? Thats $6 a month. But that just gets you in the door! If you want to download anything you have to purchase more points?

My wife just happened to be in Costco and they had 1 360 left and she bought it for me. No waiting lists, no standing in line for hours... I plugged it into my 52" HDTV and my surround sound and WOW!!!! It is great. COD2 and PGR came with it and both are incredible. To answer the first guys comments, I have no Live account, haven't bought any points and the two games that came with it work wonderfully.

My achievements are tracked, I can download support for my exisiting XBOX games as they become available... So a big company created a way to sneak $6 - $20 away from you... are you suprised? The phone, cellular, cable, and electric companies have been doing it for years.

LIVE is NOT required to have a 360!

Oh yea, I put in Dead or Alive 3 from the original Xbox and WOW! It is really improved by the HD graphics capability!!! Only problem I have right now is only 5 of my 20 original games are currently supported. The only real disapointment is that none of my StarWars games from the original work on the 360 and Tetris doesn't work either.

MS - You need to kick start the compatibility program in the pants. At least all of the Platinum series games should be supported!!! IMHO

Re:What if you don't want Live?

[iapetus]

You can play most games without Live - I could quite happily have played all the games I picked up with the 360 offline. All the gameplay (except the online modes, obviously) is still there. Some of the achievements are unattainable without online play (particularly in PGR3) but then you'll never be going online so nobody will ever see that other than you. And you won't care.

That said, the one month free trial has made a believer of me, and despite the fact that I wasn't planning to, I'm now buying a subscription to Live.

Also worthy of note is the fact that you get limited Live functionality even without the subscription. Obviously MS want you to be able to spend money on downloading games and themes, so these features are available (I believe) on the 'silver' membership that you get by default.

So the impression so far is that the games don't require Live, but do a great job of taking advantage of it where present, even if they're fundamentally one-player offline games.

Re:What if you don't want Live?

[Danga]

I read that subject line as "What if you don't want to live". I was hoping I could get your 360 cheap/free. Damn!

Okay just kidding, I wouldn't want someone to die just so I could get a 360... unless I could pick ha

Parent is NOT flamebait!!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Parent is not flamebait. Come on, guys! Read the posts before you judge!

Wow, just think!

[maccw]

How much time this guy has on his hands. GEEZ, did he get paid for this review??

UpSkirtWebcam

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time your XBOX 360 detects the pheromones of a female passing by, it takes a upskirt webcam shot and posts it to J.Allard's guerilla G-Mail account.

Obligatory Joke

[TheDefenistrator]

In Solviet Russia, you burn down Xbox360!

Review somewhat light on the technical side..

[ForeverFaithless]

I wish Zonk's reviews were a little more technical. This is Slashdot after all, I think many of us are also interested in the graphics tech of the game. Lighting model, quality of textures, shader effects, etc. Some more depth really couldn't hurt here.

Brick

[Anonymous Coward]

My brick is sitting on top on my sub getting plenty of airflow and off the carpet.

Only one lockup so far and that was in PGR3.

In all fairness, those other guys BROKE the LAW

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the law, or not, they did break the law, they therefore are suffering under the full impact of breaking said laws.

Laws are easy to change, if enough people spoke up to change them, they would be changed, but too much of America is too happy eating McDonalds, stuck in front of mass produced news to do much of anything other than what they are doing... nothing.

Can't Wait

[SpinJaunt]

Only 3 more days and we'll have a dupe of this article! w00t!!

I went to lakeside (A Big shopping center here in england) and had a chance --well not that there was a queue, the xbox 360 was quite happy making Dixons' electrical bill that much steeper-- to have a fiddle with the xbox 360. I was impressed with what I saw so far and the UI/menu syetem is really quite out of this world, yes, M$ has done it again. The best part is it comes up in-game, I think when you press the green xbox button in the middle. --How I wish I could do that on my PS2-- and it feels quite fluidic.

My only gripe was that I expected a bit more from the graphics but that gives more reason to hold off atleast till the "second generation" of games hit the shelves and games developers have got the hang of all the "3cores/6threads" technical aspect, which could be 18 months away at most.

I am still reserving my judgement till PS3 and "Revolution" hit, although so far so good :)

I love mine..

[THESuperShawn]

I bought a 360 and now have about 12 games. It probably has a few hundreds of hours play on it by now and I have yet to experience any lock-ups.

I am not a MS fanboy by any means, but they really did a great job on this console.

The games are works of art, the integration with my home network is great (I can stream movies and MP3's from any XP computer on my network), and the wireless controllers are a must have.

While I had to mod my first Xbox to get it to do everything I want, my 360 does it all right out of the box. Even if a mod was to be released, I would probably get a second 360 as I would like to keep one "as is".

Don't pay over retail for one, but if you find them in stock, they are well worth retail price.

And you might want to pick up Call of Duty 2. This is one of the finest console games I have ever played.

Re:I love mine..

[Anonymous Coward]

12 games? Are there 12 good games for Xbox 360?

Re:I love mine..

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a 360 and now have about 12 games. It probably has a few hundreds of hours play on it by now

Did you have to sell your life to get that thing?

Re:I love mine..

[THESuperShawn]

Nope. Amazon releases several every day around lunch time. I even got free overnight delivery.

Re:I love mine..

[ClamIAm]

I bought a 360 and now have about 12 games.

Damn man, that's a lot of money for average games.

Re:I love mine..

[Jarlsberg]

How are you streaming movies? What kind of movies are they (regular dvds, xvid, avi, wmv)?

I haven't been able to do this, though I have connected my XP computer to the Xbox 360 via Media Connect. Music streaming works like a charm, but no video. Does it only work with a Media Center PC?

MOD PARENT UP

[DwarfGoanna]

Zonk is the new Jon Katz.

I'm just sayin, is all!

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Jon Katz = Zonk At J

I have no idea what that means, but there you go.

Who will write the article "The Best 50 Xbox Games

[Anonymous Coward]

hear hear! Xbox retainers unite!

Now, what I want to know is since Xbox new releases are dwindling, what is the definitive list of Xbox must own games? Prices on all these will be dropping and I need to know which ones to snag and which ones to let slide.

Who can tell me? The Best Releases of Xbox - call it the best 50 - what are they?

-1 astroturfing

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, this guy is pathetic.

Re:Harry pottered

[vrioux]

MOUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Well the stupidest thing you did this afternoon is also the funniest thing I read this afternoon! :P

Downloadable games and packet sniffing

[Wierdy1024]

if there are pay for downloadable games, then isn't it possible to plug a PC in via a hub and do packet sniffing on the ethernet connection, copy the game to your PC hard drive, ready to modify to remove any limitations, put it on P2P networks etc., and then load it onto the xbox by emulating the xbox live server's responses. I do hope that it's some HTTPS connection they use... BTW, what is the connection method used for xbox live, as some ISP's only allow HTTP(S) web access via a proxy on their basic ADSL services in the UK, and no other connection types are allowed. (and the user doesn't get a public IP) Also, how long does it take to download a game on slow ADSL - I mean a 4GB DVD could take 2 days!!

Re:Downloadable games and packet sniffing

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider that there are many levels of encryption and authentication on binaries.

Same old units

[tpetchy]

My son works for Best Buy and he told me they were only allowed to give out half of the units the initial day and to save half for the "Christmas release". This wasn't Best Buy's policy but was forced on Best Buy by Microsoft's marketing department. I guess this allows them to get more free advertising on the news as people wait in line overnight a second time.

Re:Same old units

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me or does the marketing have more substance than the roll out? Here in Europe we got 300_000 for the whole continent which unsurprisingly sold out on day one. Now there are no Xbox360's in the shops, nobody wants to buy the old Xbox and I bet Sony and Ninetendo are laughing all the way to the bank. I bought my kids DSs for xmas.

And given that this is the first nextgen console, why not charge a premium price. It would reduce demand and you'd make lots more money pre-xmas. This article points out how MS could have made more of it. If I were a shareholder I wouldn't happy

Re:Same old units

[Monkey]

The thing I don't get, is why the hell did they bother trying to market this thing so heavily in Japan when the worldwide demand elsewhere was so high? You see news reports about slow 360 sales in Japan, where only 62,000 were sold the first couple of days. Does this mean there is still a shitload of Xbox 360's sitting on the shelves in Tokyo?

If I were Microsoft, I would have said "Screw 'em". After selling only half a million of the original Xboxes in total in Japan, they should have considered the Japenese Xbox market dead. All the surplus 360's sitting on the shelves in Japan should have been sent to markets where they would have been sold, like North America and Europe.

Re:Same old units

[Anonymous Coward]

No Dead Or Alive 4, no sales in Japan. They would have done better to delay the launch in Japan but then they risk running up against PS3 with better tech. Either way they're going to get slaughtered in Japan again. The nextgen war is not over but Microsoft are off to a bad start.

Must be nice to be young and free

[Electric Eye]

I don't remember the last time I even fired up my PS2 to play GT4. My Doom 3 CD is still unopened and I bought it nearly a year ago.

Don't get married.

Re:Must be nice to be young and free

[bmajik]

when i was a 13 year old kid, playing the original PC doom on my 486 for HOURS every day.. ...i spent a lot of time thinking "man, i wish there was some woman that had sex with me as much as i could possibly want it"

Now that i've been married a few years, i spend very little time thinking "man, i wish i had more time to play Doom 3"

Re:Must be nice to be young and free

[mcsestretch]

Now that i've been married a few years, i spend very little time thinking "man, i wish i had more time to play Doom 3"

Wait until you're married a few more years. The sex tails off (pun intended) and you're back to playing Doom 3. :)

Re:Must be nice to be young and free

[bmajik]

Yeah, that's what i've heard :)

Note the careful wording of my original statement. It's not the absolute frequency, its the frequency of scoring divided by the frequency of desire. So long as desire goes down at the same rate as the scoring, its no big deal :)

Re:Must be nice to be young and free

[Boronx]

So long as desire goes down at the same rate as the scoring, its no big deal :)

  Good luck with that.

When will we see the Wal-Mart console?

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the Wal-Mart console? Wal-Mart has about as much to do with gaming as Microsoft does.
And then the GEStation, and the GoogleCube, and Exxon-Mobil-Box, and the Bed-Bath-&-BeyondCast?

Gotta love non-gamin' companies buying their way into the industry.
Maybe Paris Hilton will be available for those launches as well.. :P
Perhaps she and Nicole will re-unite for this special event.. :)

I wonder if the article author's jaw is still sore..?

(point of humour: "contrary" is my "type the word" image.. how nice)

In all fairness

[Dhar]

This is entertainment, the people who were busted in LA for modding and copying XBOX stuff and are facing hard time, that is real life. IMHO, no amount of copying and moding over a game deserves hard time, there is a serious priority problem here, especially considering that it can be argued that they didn't do anything wrong at all. It's sorta hard to get in the spirit of new product launches with things like this going on. ;-)
-g.

Another Downloadable Game

[Anonymous Coward]

Another Downloadable Game that I didn't see mentioned in the article is Mutant Storm Reloaded. It's a 2D shooter with some trippy backgrounds. There are many different "belts" of difficulty like White, Yellow, Orange, Green, etc. all the way to Black, so as you get better you can make it harder, or if you do well for a longer period of time the game will automatically adjust the difficulty level and unlock new ones. There are 80 levels and each one is somewhat random in the sense of where enemies appear.

The sound is excellent. They really took advantage of 5.1 and we find ourselves turning the volume up more in this game than any other.

To be honest, I think I've put more hours into this little downloadable game than Perfect Dark or PGR3. It's worth the money. At least try the free demo.

marketing shill

[heli_flyer]

If you read the Call of Duty 2 part, you'll realize there's a high probability this guy is a marketing shill. "Call of Duty 2 (CoD 2) has earned its reputation as the cream of the 360 launch title crop. The game powerfully recaptures the thrill of the original title, placing you in the shoes of a grunt on the Russian, British, or American fronts of World War II. " How many casual gamers spout that kind of marketing drivel?

Re:marketing shill

[damsa]

I thought the guy writing the review is Zonk. I believe Zonk is a professional games writer and is the editor of some game blog. games.slash something. Doesn't mean he isn't a shill, but I don't think he is a casual gamer like you and I.

Xbox Live not required....

[fksimon]

I have had my Xbox 360 for about a week now, received in the second shipment from ebgames. I still have not hooked it to the internet. I have had no reason to so far. With the wireless adapter running at $100 it may be quite sometime before I do. The only reason I would personally connect for is to download demos or patches. My daughters and I have been playing PGR and it is a great game. The graphics are spectacular as well as the number of options in cars. I should mention my oldest daughter is only 6 and she does quite well at it. The main reason I personally decided to pickup the xbox was cause consoles have finally surpassed afordable computers in power. I mean the graphics card for my computer alone was $300 so whats $400 for a fully functioning console? Not that I'll be give up my computer anytime soon. Also it seems many of the game developers I really enjoy, like Bioware, are starting to create console only games. The PC Game market as been slow at best.

Re:Xbox Live not required....

[iapetus]

You can pick up a cheaper wireless adapter - or just use good old fashioned wires. With the official one you're paying an extortionate price for something that looks nice and clips neatly into place, and that's about it.

As for consoles 'finally' surpassing PCs, they do it pretty much every generation. And it takes the PC market a very short time to catch up - first with high-end graphics cards that cost more than your entire console, and later with cheap entry-level cards. Whatever console you buy (Revolution excepted, I guess) it'll be bleeding edge on day one and old hat when it reaches the end of its life.

XBox Live is well worth the investment. I feel dirty saying that, because I sound like a Microsoft viral marketeer, but it's the honest truth from my experience so far. I never went online with the XBox, but since I've got a wireless network in my house now I decided to give it a try with the 360 (the free one-month trial helped) and I'm picking up a 12-month subscription as soon as I can. The downloadable games on Live Arcade are great, both on the retro side of things (Robotron 2084 is the definite highlight so far) and in terms of newer games (Outpost Kaloki, Wik, Bejewelled and the suchlike...) The achievement points system is an inspired idea, bringing in a whole new level of competition even for single-player games - you can compare the achievements you've reached with any other player for a given game.

PGR3 takes on new life with online functionality added, too. It goes without saying that you get to race against real people, but the online experience goes further than that. You can watch top-ranked players or your friends racing online live. Every stage you complete you're ranked against everyone else who has played the game while connected to the internet. It's all-pervasive.

And as you say, there are the demos, both of the big commercial games and the Arcade games (which I generally prefer because of their more manageable download time). Throw in movie trailers, music, video demos of games, interviews and other features, and you're definitely on to a winner. And for less than it would cost to subscribe to an XBox 360 magazine.

I never really got into online gaming last generation, but as you can probably tell by the stomach-churning gushing over it, Live on the XBox 360 has made me a convert.

Live features are interesting

[Frobozz0]

I'm a Mac guy, but I have a PS2, PSP, and PC for gaming. (Actually the PC was for work but I got one that can play the latest games, but I digress.) I probably won't be buying an XBox 360 ... certinaly not until the PS3 comes out, but my decision boils down to games and my general disdain for Microsoft.

After reading this review, it covers a lot of the XBox live, marketplace, and home entertainment integration issues that other reviews fly by. To me, this is a deciding factor in a next gen console purchase. It would actually make me look at a 360 more closely as a second console. But, I think the game coverage speaks for it's self: lame and derivative. The XBox 360 games are nothing more than PC games. I already have a PC. I already have a 23" LCD to play them on. The OTHER stuff is what's interesting-- and being able to do it on my couch, socially. And, unless Sony has a way to get those kinds of integrated features in the PS3 I will be in Envy of them. So, props to the 360 for what seems to be a solid UI and Online experience.

However, the bottom line is that Sony has VASTLY more good quality original titles you will not see on any other platform. An XBox 360, speaking strictly for the games, will never outperform my PC and will never have unique games for it. If they do have "unique" games such as Halo (um, the ONLY one?) I don't really care so much because there are a hundred alternatives that are just as good elsewhere. Sports games? Ugh. Could care less. Titles you will never see on XBox 360:

God of War
Ratchet and Clank
Jak and Daxter
Shadow of the Colossus
Devil May Cry
GTA (well, maybe very late) ... and the list goes on.

So Sony easily beats XBox on good game titles IMO. They also have backward compatability which all people want and no one uses. And, if they can pull together some slick interface like the 360 with a good online purchasing system (like Steam), It'll be a knockout.

Re:Live features are interesting

[iapetus]

There were plenty of worthwhile XBox-exclusive titles last generation, along with the added bonus of generally getting the best version of games that were available across all platforms. Crimson Skies, the Knights of the Old Republic games, Project Gotham Racing (a very slick racer that actually dared to do something different), Psychonauts all spring to mind. There are plenty more decorating my shelves at home.

Speaking as someone who puts far too much time and money into gaming, the only way to get all the best games is to own all the consoles. If you're not that much of an obsessive, then any of the consoles offers enough in the way of great entertainment to suck up all your time. Sure, with an XBox only, you won't get to play Ratchet and Clank. You'll live. With a PS2 only, you'll miss out on Halo. You'll survive. With either of them you won't be playing Donkey Konga. You'll get over it.

Each of the platforms has a different set of unique games, and they'll appeal to a different type of gamer. It doesn't make sense to dismiss any of them. I can pretty much guarantee there will be some great XBox 360 exclusive titles coming along within the next year or so, and with just a PS3 you won't be playing them.

Re:Live features are interesting

[Frobozz0]

You make some excellent points. This is the first generation that I would seriously consider a second console. Probably wouldn't go for a third, just for the clutter, but you're right. All the consoles cost roughy the same. I have the disposable income to purchase any and all of them over a reasonabe time frame. All games are about the same price. So, at this point it boils down to which one I purchase first, and which one comes in "second."

I have to admit I'm not as revolted by the 360 as I would normally be my Microsoft stuff. Still want the PS3 a lot more, but I'm warming up to it. :-)

King Kong

[Repton]

I saw a demo reel of the KK game.. A T-rex shouldered its way through a stone archway, sending chunks of masonry almost as big as small cars falling to the ground. The rocks reached the ground ... and sank into it. In moments, they were gone, without even bending the grass.

Then King Kong turned up, and, to show his strength, he pushed over a stone pillar as tall as he was, and at least a metre in diameter. It, too, tipped over, and then sunk quickly through the ground.

I mean, I don't object to broken crates or tree branches vanishing after a little while to keep things tidy, but huge massive rocks should have a bit more permanence if they want to preserve any kind of suspension of disbelief...

Marry Well.

[larsoncc]

Sorry that your wife doesn't "let you" (pffft) play games.

Not that I'm trying to make you jealous or anything... But my wife bought me a Neo Geo arcade cabinet. Now it's difficult for me to get play time on the cab! She's a Magical Drop zombie.

I'd just play the games, man. I mean, your woman HAS to know what she married, right?

Re:Guy Wastes Money On Crappy Console.

[thoth]

There were so many advantages to the PC version of Morrowind (console access for quest fixes and other "god" mode sorts of thing, ability to add mods), that I'd stick with the PC version unless they implement this stuff for the XBOX360 version.

Well considering this is slashdot

[SmallFurryCreature]

Look for that in the dupe.

I am kidding!

Depth in a slashdot article dupe or not. HA!

Definitely enjoying mine

[Groove Holmes]

I also got a "second wave" 360 and I am very impressed by it. The dashboard UI is slick and easy to use, and there's a ton of good stuff in XBox Live Arcade. The wireless controllers are also great.

The contant sex makes up for it

[SmallFurryCreature]

I remember being young. Sure this whole adult paying the bills and having to work (and no skipping shifts) thing sucks. For some reason my gf also seems to get more upset at me expecting her to do all the chores. Reminding her that your mom used to AND was better at it is not something I recommend.

But all of it is made up by the easily available sex. No more quickies in the back of your car on a friday night (unless you want to). Just waking up on a lazy sunday morning and find something warm, soft and willing next to you and nothing to do for the whole next 5 minutes.

The cost of Xbox Live

[ssstraub]

I can't figure out why Microsoft charges for Xbox Live AND why people don't seem to have a problem paying for it?

• I don't have to pay a monthly for playing my Nintendo DS online.
• I don't have to pay to play Quake 4 online (or any Quake before it)
• I don't have to pay to visit Microsoft.com, and download numerous massive files. (Something that I'm convinced takes many more servers and is generally a much higher expense to the company than some game servers.)
  
• I am already paying $45/mo for the connection.

So why is it that people don't even bring up the fact that it costs $20/mo additional to any media costs, hardware costs, and even connection costs just to use Xbox Live?

Re:The cost of Xbox Live

[Groove Holmes]

XBox Live is a great service - this is why I bought a 360 rather than using a PC. Some of the things that make it worth the money (which is actually $5/month when you subscribe for a year):

  * Voice communication totally changes the experience and is essential for many types of games (e.g. playing Ghost Recon as a squad in co-op mode)

  * Single ID across all games, and with the 360 you get a single UI shared across all games to handle game invitations, messages, etc.

  * Easy ability to set up games and keep track of people on your friends list. You can open a chat channel even if you're in different games.

  * Closed network without all the BS (cheaters, etc.) I don't have much time to play online so I would gladly pay $5 / month just for this aspect of it.

Of course, nothing's perfect, but Live is definitely well worth the price in my opinion.

Re:The cost of Xbox Live

[Anonymous Coward]

You strike me as someone who is incredibly stupid and biased. Live! is a service offered by Microsoft. It is optional. It costs Microsoft time and money to maintain. They do things like ban people from playing games when they use hacks which encourages a fair and more enjoyable environment for those who play. Money that you pay your internet provider does not go to MS to provide this service. Quake4 does not monitor for cheating or provide downloadable content for anything but its own game. People do bring up the fact that Live! costs money...you aren't surprising anyone here by pointing this up. I think only the stupidest of people don't understand that they are going to need to have an internet connection and associated media to use this service.

Re:The cost of Xbox Live

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't figure out why Microsoft charges for Xbox Live AND why people don't seem to have a problem paying for it?

I'll be glad to enlighten you.

MS charges for Xbox Live because they handle all the authentication, billing systems, databases (for your friends list), online presence, servers to do matchmaking, Messenger alerts, plus the other new features in 360. These are not free.

You can't figure out why people don't have a problem paying for it probably because you've never subscribed. For most people that have it, it's well worth it. That's assuming you have friends, of course - Xbox Live is not for everyone.

* I don't have to pay a monthly for playing my Nintendo DS online.

And, commensurate with that price, you get none of the features I listed above. It's all peer to peer.

* I don't have to pay to play Quake 4 online (or any Quake before it)

See above.

* I don't have to pay to visit Microsoft.com, and download numerous massive files. (Something that I'm convinced takes many more servers and is generally a much higher expense to the company than some game servers.)

Those are usually files that MS either wants to or has to get out to the general public to support their products (Service Packs, demos, whitepapers, etc.). I think we can all see that there's a difference between that and online gaming. Whether it costs more or not is irrelevant, since one is necessary for them to do business and one isn't. Figuring out which is which is left as an excercise for the reader.

* I am already paying $45/mo for the connection.

And I'm already paying $1000/mo in rent. So? What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

So why is it that people don't even bring up the fact that it costs $20/mo additional to any media costs, hardware costs, and even connection costs just to use Xbox Live?

Like I said, it's obvious you've never subscribed to Xbox Live. It doesn't cost $20/mo or even close to that. It's more like $5/mo (maybe $6/mo with the 360). I pay more than that for my set top box on my digital cable. But to answer your question, nobody ever brings it up because it's obvious.

Re:The cost of Xbox Live

[Shaheen]

An Xbox LIVE Gold Subscription costs $50 per year (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/memberships/xbox36 0subscriptionplan.htm). My math is rusty but I believe that is a grand total of ~$5 per month.

You can pay for Xbox LIVE subscriptions in various ways, but the gold subscription is the most economical.

Disclaimer: Microsoft is my employer. This post is provided as-is with no warranties and confers no rights.

Re:The cost of Xbox Live

[Mr2001]

Closed network without all the BS (cheaters, etc.) I don't have much time to play online so I would gladly pay $5 / month just for this aspect of it.

No cheaters, huh? I guess you haven't played Halo 2 lately.

Re:The cost of Xbox Live

[Control-Z]

    Reading the review almost made me want a 360.

    But the 360 costs $400 (if you could find it for that price), plus $60(!) for each game. Then they want $20 a month to play online!?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

    My 3 year old souped-up gaming PC is looking better and better. Hell I just bought my sister a bare-bones computer to upgrade her current one for $300 from Newegg. AMD Sempron 64 2600+, MSI K8MM-V motherboard, eVGA 256MB FX 5500 video card, a nice case, and 1 GB of memory. $300!

    I'll buy a 360 when they're $200 which will probably be 3 years from now.

Tax deductible

[Leebert]

Good idea, Zonk, now you can claim that your XBox 360 is a work-related purchase and deduct it on your taxes! :)

MOD PARENT TROLL

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent doesn't even know that Live is $50/yr or that it does much more than anything he listed (content downloads, etc)

Networking Mandatory?

[tillerman35]

Is a network connection mandatory? Because I'm not going to drill a flipping hole in the floor, snake a effin cable up the heating vents, cut a slot in the wall for a workbox, get a face plate with RJ-11 connector, go back to Home Depot, get a face plate with RJ-45 connector, go back to Home Depot, get a crimping tool, go back to Home Depot, get some cat5e cable that's bloody PLENUM rated, crimp fifteen or sixteen jacks on the bloody PLENUM-rated cat5e cable, go back to Home Depot, buy a contractor-pack of 50 friggin RJ-45 connectors and a copy of "Wire Your Home for Teh IntarNets!" snake the first cable out of the wall, break a hole in the wall with a sledge-hammer, find where the first cable is stuck on a 110VAC line, go down to the basement, reset the breaker for the circuit for the room with the 110VAC line, re-run the network with bloody PLENUM-rated cat5e cable, go back to Home Depot, buy a 8'x4' piece of drywall to repair a 1'x1' hole, go back to Home Depot this time with a god-damn friggin bloody flippin list, buy some drywall tape, clips, spackle, sandpaper, a drywall knife, a spatula and a copy of "Home Repairs with Norm Abrams," patch, tape, spackle, and sand the wall, drive halfway back to DAG-NABBIT fripping Home Depot, go back home and get a piece of the old drywall, drive BACK to Home Depot (get the FARK out of my way you bleeping idiot!!! Where'd you get your beeping driver's license, moron?!!), buy a gallon of paint matched to the same color to fix the 1'x1' bare spot, drive home, look for a paint brush, say screw it and use an old sponge and call it "spot faux finishing," try eight different ways to hook up the new X360 to the intarnets, my TV, my cardiac monitor, the on-star system in my car (drive back to Home Depot yourself, you bloody farking machine!), then call my kids downstairs to play a game of Monopoly.

/just not gonna do it.

PC Wins hands down.

[JackAxe]

Wake up buddy, you've bought into MS's marketing hype. You're singing praise to a console that barely breaks the double-performance-mark over its predecessor and by the time developers get used to its shortcomings and can squeese it for every ounce of power, its tech, which is already dated, will be sub-par when compared to an entry level POS Dell of that time.

I'm buying a Revolution for the love of great games and something completely new, and maybe a PS3 for "true" visual eye candy. But will eventualy be upgrading my PC again, since it's better across the board for the types of games that consoles like the X360 "try" to handle. The controls alone on a PC are vastly better. I'll skip the X360, since it's maybe on par wtih my last PC from a few years back, which I could only get about $100 for if I'm lucky and MS is well known for making mediocre products that never perform as promised.

I'm not a fan of shoddy frame-rate, muddy/stretched/blurry textures, and an extreme overuse of light blooms. This seems to be the norm with the X360 games that I've tried. 2X aliasing... Wow. That's pretty amazing if it were the turn of the century again.

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[Anonymous Coward]

The real bright side of this is that Xbox hacking has already started at http://www.free60.org/

It has already been done with the original Xbox and if the flaws that allowed Linux to be ran http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Current_events are any indication of Microsofts security framework then running linux on the 360 should be possible soon.

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[NeutronCowboy]

A PS3 for "true" visual eye candy? I'm sure that's why most of the current "demos" for the system are simple movies, with nothing generated in-game. And the one that is supposed to be real-time (MGS4) looks suspiciously like the PS2 version. I'm not buying the MS hype either, but it looks like you bought the Sony hype hook, line and sinker.

MS baiting is fun, but at least try not to let your bias show that much. X360 on par with a PC from a few years back? Dude, you mistook your Toy Story DVD for a game.

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[JackAxe]

Nope, didn't buy into it, tis why I stated "maybe" on a purchase. But in comparisson to the X360, I have not doubt Sony will deliver something a step above that's more pleasing than light-blooms from hell. Afterall, they have more experience with consoles. But I do know from working in the game industry when I was younger, that they've always been full of it when it comes to their system's performance.

I'll show my bias towards mediocrity and if Sony doesn't live up to its hype, I'll show no restraint in expressing my opinions about them also. I left out Nintendo, because they've been pretty modest about their system, but until I get my hands on this new controller, I'll also have some doubts, but not as much since the DS was such a pleasant surprise.

And yes, a PC from a few years back. Don't tell me you fell for MS's hype? The X360 in its current state of mediocricy performs no better than my antiquated Athlon XP. Maybe in a few years once developers have figured out all the ins-and-outs it will live up to MS's hype, but I doubt it. They themselves stated it was 80 times faster than a XBox. Sure, maybe if I had mistaken my TS DVD for a game I would buy into that bull.

You get what you pay for when you buy a X360, a console that performs as well as a low-end PC.

Anyways, I own the deluxe edition of ToyStory and now that you menntion it, I've never been able to play it in my GameCube.

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[Anonymous Coward]

And yes, a PC from a few years back. Don't tell me you fell for MS's hype? The X360 in its current state of mediocricy performs no better than my antiquated Athlon XP. Maybe in a few years once developers have figured out all the ins-and-outs it will live up to MS's hype, but I doubt it. They themselves stated it was 80 times faster than a XBox. Sure, maybe if I had mistaken my TS DVD for a game I would buy into that bull.

So... you really dont know shit about the machine, do you? Have you ever even seen it on a real setup? Someone is in denial, and I'm pretty damn sure its you. Lets not even get on the graphics argument. I want to you technically make a Athlon T-bird 1.4 ghz PC with any GPU to run COD2 the way the 360 does. I fucking dare you. You are a moron if you think its all hype. I've seen anand disassemble it. I've read what he says about what MS says it is... and what it is. And guess what. They're the same. And if you don't give Anand any credibility then you are the most ignorant proclamed 'geek' I've ever heard of.
Thats one smart fucker.

The other argument you havn't thought of is that this is a console. Dedicated hardware to a dedicated cause. Put a p3 and geforce 4 in a PC and make it play games the way the Xbox does. YOU WONT. They can take the console and tweak the shit out of the games, and do great stuff with them. The hardware might be rivaled in 6 months... but the platform will be a contender for several years to come.

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[JackAxe]

Wow your brilliance has wowed me, excuse me while I vomit. I've never met anyone who's "read!"

Once again for someone who's well readified;
The X360 in its current state of mediocricy performs no better than my antiquated Athlon XP.

Now what does this mean? It's pretty clear, but obviously not for you.

Note the word "mediocricy" and "current." Oh, and note Athlon XP. Now who the fuck stated "T-Bird? Maybe you should use your ability to read, so that you'll know the difference between an Athlon XP and an Athlon T-Bird.

Once again, but reworded for someone who's brilliance clouded "its" ability to comprehend; An unopitmized X360, because its available games are only using one fucking-thread and the developers are still "new" and were "rushed" when developing these games, in it is current state of being, meaning now, meaning the version I've "played" more than once, performs "no" better than my dated Athlon XP Barton, for similar games like COD2. Now is that a bit clearer? Probably not, since I added more words. But your readified edjumication should be able to handle it.

If you think that because on paper the X360 can do what MS states, when "currently" (Here's this word again) it can not, then you're truly in denial. Why else would you post as an "Anonymous Coward?" Afraid you'll offend someone? Obviously you're not even sure about what you spew, since you don't have the nads to post under your username.

And no shit, they do tweak the shit out of games for consoles, ONCE THEY KNOW THE INS-AND-OUTS (Hey, didn't I already mention this... Yes I did.) once they have enough experience under their belt to properly do so. Look at the PS2, it only took about 5 yars, but they really figured that one out. So until the X360 is in its prime, which it won't be for several years, it's all hype and even then I doubt it will live up to what looked good on paper. The Xbox never did, so why do you thing the X360 will be any different?

Guess what, the X360 doesn't perform as promissed, that's not being ignorant ,that's just simple observation. Post again once the X360 has content that can squeeze it for every ounce of power and this time uncheck "Post Anonymously."

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok asshole. For one. You used the term "several years." I used a "t-bird" as an example due to the time frame you mentioned. But ok. So you have a fucking barton. I owned both processors, so I can make judgement either way. It still wont produce what the 360 can.

On the argument of one thread... you dont know shit. As many have even stated here... many of the games due utilize multiple threads for something. Even geometry wars uses more than one thread.

And maybe we need to get on the same page about what the word "performance" means. Because to anyone I can think of, the term performance in the computer gaming world refers to the smoothness and framerate your rig or machine can render the game. Of course your Barton can play "games like COD2" (soo, I guess by that you mean First Person Shooters?) and perform as well as the 360. Your machine can play COD1 with things turned almost all the way up at 60fps or higher. The 360 does the same fucking thing with COD2. Both are playable with no frame studder... so yes, they both perform, framerate wise, "the same". Yes. You could prolly make your barton play COD2 just as smoothly (thats, 60fps or higher) as the 360... but it WONT be running the same resoltions, detail levels, etc. Your argument is fucking rediculous. I perfer to have 'some' shred of eye candy with my performance... eye candy your "several year old PC" can't fucking provide. You've posted in other threads that the PS2 could play COD2. This is fucking rediculous too. Yes, it fucking can. But it CANNOT do it at the same level of detail the 360 can. I've read several times you've said it can, but its just not fucking true. Backup your fantasies with fucking facts. You also say that the 360 doesn't look as good as the pc version. if you read around, you'd know EVERYONE ELSE disagrees. I've seen it on the pc. It looks good. It runs good. but it will lag at the same resolutions with 2xaa and details all the way up. I can only conlude that you played the 360 version on a really shitty TV, or possibly with your eyes closed.

So by you saying "meaning the version I've "played" more than once, performs "no" better than my dated Athlon XP Barton, for similar games like COD2.", I must ask. The version you've played of what? Games like COD2? WTF does that mean? I guess you must have only played Q4 on the 360. Yes, it does have framerate issues. Any fault of the hardware? No. Not properly ported/optimized engine. Yes.

So what is it "exactly" you think MS said this console would do that you claim it doesn't do? It plays the fucking games. It plays them smoothy. It plays them in HD. They DO look better than current PC games. I guess if you feel different, welcome to having a fucking opinion. You're entitled to it. But dont' muck up the truth with your opinions. Yes, you prolly hate MS. I'm sorry for you. I think they've fucked up many times, and I'm not happy about it. but dont take your mentality and blind yourself from the fact that this plays games your PC can't, while looking better than your pc can, for fractions of your cost, and will continue to look better, along with pc games? What the fuck makes you such an angry person?

So I'm now wondering... are you arguing just to argue? Do you really think you have valid points? I'm a pc gamer. I'm a console gamer. I'm a technician. I'm generally thought of, as a smart guy. I not fucking einstien... but im fucking sure that neither are you. So how are my words invalidated by being anonymous? Does it make them less true? You know what, I post replys on /. once about every 6 months. Maybe. I don't have a username.
I don't know who the fuck you are. I don't really care. You'd be just as much of a dumbass if you were anonymous, as you are by knowing your username.

Plus... I love how your argument turns from facts into me 'being afraid of letting you know who I am.' I wont give you the pleasure.
I, on the other hand, have gone back and read several of you

Re:PC Wins hands down.

[JackAxe]

A technician and a self proclaimed psychologist... Who knew... ---wow--- simply amazing... Like that candy bar... You should probably keep your day job as a techie, but then again, with asinine statements like X360 games "do" look better than current PC games, and an uncanny ability to take most of what I've stated completely out of "context," while ignoring other parts, which you then post as your own rhetoric, maybe you should consider being a twit full time.

When reading most of what you've stated, this comes to mind; NO SHIT!!! Especially since parts are redundant to what I've stated to you and in other posts, which you claim to have read. FYI. Trying to rip on my posting history is merely a sign of "desperation" and this is the act of someone posting as an AC.

Your very last sentence is something I can whole heartily agree with; Amen.

Re:Guy Wastes Money On Crappy Console.

[jasonditz]

I've only got Macs, and there's no Mac version... I can't justify spending all the money on a computer just for a game, but the Xbox360 might have other worthwhile titles.

Theropod stance

[No Such Agency]

Paleontologists believed that bipedal dinosaurs had a more horizontal stance well before "Jurassic Park". I think the physical model changed around the 80's. But JP was the big dino movie in recent years that really redefined the image of _T. rex_ and other dinosaurs in the public mind.

You mean an expensive decked out pc wins

[Hard_Rock_2]

Really? Please sell me this 100$ pc that will peform as well on call of duty 2 as an xbox 360. Please, i want an x1800 in the pc though, becuase thats what they have in there. Whats that, exagerated the price a little? i thought so. A comparably pc will cost a hell of a lot more then the xbox 360, my 1000$ notebook runs call of duty 2 like shit, and its a decent lappy (its got a geforce 6600 in there, so its not like im trying to run it on some old POS). I saw call of duty 2 in the store and it was running a hell of a lot nicer then my computer is running it. and i didnt even have aa on. I could probably get rid of the chopiness by adding ram, but thats another 50$, i dont have to buy new ram for an xbox 360 game do i?

Re:Who will write the article "The Best 50 Xbox Ga

[rknop]

Who can tell me? The Best Releases of Xbox - call it the best 50 - what are they?

Of the games I've played, here are some of my favorites. Note that your tastes may well not match mine, so you may like some I didn't, and dislike some I did.

Must haves: All three of the Grand Theft Auto series. These are probably my favorite.

Halo and Halo 2. Both are excellent, the latter is a very well-done networked FPS. Halo (the first one) was notable to me as a well done FPS, with cut scene-to-action transitions nearly seamless, a good save/checkpoint system that was non-intrusive yet useful, and good NPC AI. The second one likewise.

Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel, and Jade Empire. (JE was made by the same company as KOTOR, and feels similar in some ways.) These are RPGs, not so much action based (although some of JE is), so if that's not your thing, you won't like them. But they're extremely engrossing.

Splinter Cell. A third-person sneaker. I haven't played either of the two sequels, but will eventually. Excellent.

Morrowind. Some didn't like it; I really did.

Madden. I've played more 2004 than 2005. If you like football, this is great. If you don't care for football, give it a pass.

Burnout 3. Great racing game.

Star Wars Battlefront.

Ones to Miss: Return of the King. It got rated well and a lot of people like it, but I found it to be just a button-masher, and irritating as a result,

Enter the Matrix. It's not bad, but there are better games out there. It is kind of neat to see the extra movie footage with the characters from Matrix Reloaded, and to see the additional continuity that does fit into (and is referred to) in the movies, but the gameplay isn't quite good enough to live up to it all.

Fable. OK, I did kinda like this one. But it just doesn't live up nearly to the standard set by KOTOR, KOTOR II, and JE. Only play this one if you're really a computer RPG junkie and just want more.

Ones I'm Lukewarm about: D&D Dark Alliance. A third-person shooter, really. Sort of has a roleplaying element to it, that gets thinner as you go along. It entertained me, but I guess I should probably have ranked it below Fable. (Fable's hype downgraded it for me.)

Rainbox Six 3. Again, it's pretty fun, and a lot of people like it a lot, but I wouldn't rank it as a "must see". When it comes to Tom Clancy genre games, I enjoyed Splinter Cell more.

All just IMHO.

-Rob

wrong terminology...

[YesIAmAScript]

Gold is the name of the version of Live which allows you to play against other people online on 360. On Xbox, It was just called "Live". When J Allard said "Live" would be free on 360, he meant Live Silver, which just basically allows you to download updates to buggy games and buy stuff with micropayments.

Live Gold is not free, just making J Allard's comments technically correct but completely misleading. Anyone hearing the comments would assume that the thing that came free would do what Live allowed you to do, which is play against others online.

A $50 12 month (actually 13) Gold subscription card is the cheapest way to get Live Gold on 360. There are also 3 month Live Gold subscription cards too, I think they are $20, making it $80/year. You can also get Live Gold month to month, but I think it is $10/mo or some other nonsensical cost.

Good review

[Jarlsberg]

Well, that was a refreshingly decent review of the 360. I say that because it mostly echoes my own feelings toward the console. Exchange COD2 with PDZ and Zonk got the same games as I did when I bought mine earlier in december. I think I have spent more time playing the Live Arcade games than the Xbox 360 games, though. Robotron just became available, and it's a real hoot.

Please, review old stuff!

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't want to hear about new stuff, we would rather read reviews about things long since released so we can whine further about how out of date /. is!

It would be crazy if we just learned to shut up and stop bitching about things just to pass the day away.

Question

[SanityInAnarchy]

Can the 360 download Live content while playing a game?

Re:Question

[Rowan_u]

Negative, you can't do anything but stare at a progress bar while downloading a game. You can't even listen to your mp3s. Good thing my 360 is on a kvm with the rest of my computers :)

A PS2 can run COD2!!!

[JackAxe]

Also a GameCube and even a Xbox. Now doesn't your $1k notebook feel special. Now just like the X360 version of COD2, it has been "dumbed" down in detail to accommodate those console's shortcomings, so why don't you dumb down the detail on your notebook so that it will work well on it? The X360 version was optimized for 720p, if you hadn't noticed that's "lo-rez" compared to what PC games are generally optimized to work well with. Running it any higher stretches and blurs the textures and they look like shit and it also drops frame rate, which I also mentioned.

Now considering that the X360 is only about twice the performance of a 733Mhz Celeron/P3 hybrid, it doesn't take much to beat it out. I'll take my "old" (About 3 years now.) Athlon XP with a 9500 Pro (Can't get more than $100 for this, unless I rip off an ignorant peep.) over a X360 any day, since it runs games just fine. Oh, and if the CPU isn't fast enough to feed the GPU, which seems to be the case for your notebook, it doesn't matter what type of video card you have, and just like your notebook, the X360 with its unoptimized "weak" PPC variation doesn't have the throughput to feed a "real" x1800. This would be why it ships with a watered down derivative that doesn't hold up to its bigger brothers.

Now I've played COD2 on a X360 and it plays about the same as my old XP2500 with a 9500 Pro(Maybe they should've shoved this into a X360, since it does the job, but a X360 probably can't feed it fast enough either.) at 1024x768 (Works about the same at 1280x1024 also), which is what I run it on since I lug a 15" LCD to LAN parties. The difference though, is the PC version looks better, it doesn't look as jaggedy. Now if I weren't so cheap and replaced the Corsair DDR400 chip that deciced it no longer wanted to run at its native speed, I could jump my XP back up to XP3200, which makes a noticeable difference in performance, probably giving me better overal performance than X360 in its current state of pathetic-ness.

My friend has a Shuttle wiith a Athlon 64 running a 6600 and the game runs without hicccups, so maybe you should think aout investing in a standard PC next time. What did you buy, an older Pentium M, or is it a Celeron, and how much ram does your notebook have? Let me guess, your notebook only has 256 megs of RAM? Now if you won't spend $50 to bring it up, then you're just as cheap as me when it comes to my PCs. But I kind of figured that since you only paid a grand for your notebook. It's a Dell, isn't it?

You don't need to upgrade the X360? Well you shouldn't have to, because it's a "console." Of course if you don't buy its additional HDD, you'll be missing out. WTF is that, it's a console for Pete's sake!!!

A HDD is really needed if you want to take advantage of the X360. So $50 more to upgrade for your notebook is nothing, when it's $100 more for a X360, and if you weren't lucky enough to come buy a premium addition in this artificial shortage, then you'll be spending more than $500 after upgrades and accessories. Hey that's almost the price of a faster PC if you know what you're doing. Just imagine the idiots that paid more than a $1k for a X360 bundle, or paid more than $2k on eBay just to play a handful of second-rate games. Fuck, for that price I can assemble a fully decked out gaming rig with monitor that will floor an "optimized" X360.

I watched an infocomercial about it, I mean "Icon" on that shit-channel G4TV and they stated it has a PCI Express for future expansion. Now if this is true, just like the "shipping with bugs and then patching later" which MS introduced into the console market, (Thanks MS, just what we all wanted!!!) they'll probably introduce future games that will require a hardware upgrade to run, which is OK for PCs, but "not" for consoles! And I'm possitive that there will be several games in the future that will require the HDD option.

JFYI; My expensive PC is a G5 running a HD 30" (2560x1600), in some, (well mos

Or just a wireless network adapter?

[LordJezo]

Yeah, sure, you can do all that or just do..
b) Get a wireless adapter for it

Points

[HalAtWork]

Theme packs that re-skin your blades run about 150 Points, and packs of icons for your GamerTag are about 50 Points. There are exceptions, of course. The Penny Arcade icon packs each have several icons to choose from, and cost 200 Points. Expensive, but Mr. Period was worth the $2.50.

This sounds just like cell phones (needing to purchase ringtones + backgrounds etc)... you probably can't import your own backgrounds + icons + sounds from a storage device (even though you can view them from your USB storage device) because then they wouldn't be able to sell you the same things over Live. Is that the case?

in denial

[the computer guy nex]

"I'll skip the X360, since it's maybe on par wtih my last PC from a few years back"

Unless you own a time machine you are out of your mind. If you take the 2 of the newest ATI cards and put them in a Crossfire with a dual core AMD64 you will still not even come close to the rendering power of the 360.

I have the 360 currently hooked up to a 60" Sony SXRD HDTV and playing Call of Duty 2 in 1080i is a gaming experience you cannot replicate on any PC for a few years. The graphics are astounding, and until games are designed to be run on multiple processors you will not see this replicated any time soon.

Re:in denial

[leland242]

The home computer will never need more than 600 blah blah blah...

This is what happened last time. Flashy consoles had the advantage for approx a week, then the next generation of graphics cards came out for PC's and it was over, johnny.

Look, I'm a Nintendo fanboy, so I don't care either way. Hell, I'll probably buy a 360 next year after a price-drop (I never owned a regular xbox). Don't fool yourself. Its a closed box. It is what it is today and forever. PC gaming is progressing as you read this. It's a safe bet that the most recent consoles will look dated in a few months by a high-end gaming PC.

And yes, PC's cost more. Yes, you can't play on your couch. Even still, they're better.

Re:in denial

[Rancidlunchmeat]

And yet, he didn't say that PCs won't soon be able to eclipse the 360 gaming experience. In fact, he expliciting indicated that they would.

However, he was pointing out that CURRENTLY, you cannot match the level of gaming experience from the 360 on a PC. Which is true. Swapping ATI cards running crossfire for nVidia cards running SLI, doesn't it change it. Sure, I think he was exaggerating a bit when he said you won't be able to match in on the PC for a couple of years.

I think by the time the PS3 launches, PC gaming will have surpassed both the 360 and the PS3 in terms of high-level quality (if you want to pay for it). But right now, he's correct. And right now, the grandparent is incorrect in saying that the 360 games are of the quality of PC games two years ago.

That's just absurd. Right now, the 360 offers the best experience (for the same game) across different platforms. That will change in 6 months to 1 year, when the PC market will adjust and surpass the console market. But the statement that PCs 2 years ago can do what the 360 is doing to day is ridiculous. PCs TODAY can't do what the 360 is doing today.

Standardized fps settings

[patternjuggler]

By entering the setting on my Live account, every FPS I play on the 360 will use that setting by default.

Why can't someone do this for PC games? I expected Steam to do it, but there it won't even remember your keyboard settings if you play the same game on a new computer. Every FPS has a bunch of basic controls in common, why can't they all use a standardized config file? I've been deterred from playing demos of some games because I know there's a pretty good chance it will take me longer to config the controls than it will to play the whole demo.

MS Seeks Entrance Fee to Xbox Accessory Market?

[tepples]

We ... support USB keyboard input for the Xbox 360 virtual keyboard. Just plug in a USB keyboard at any time and use it while the virtual keyboard is displayed.

I thought that the Xbox 360 console was going to have some sort of lockout against input devices not approved by Microsoft. Does it work with USB keyboards other than these?

Re:MS Seeks Entrance Fee to Xbox Accessory Market?

[generic-man]

Yes. It works with wireless USB keyboards like these. There is no "lockout" for keyboards or mice. I imagine my el-cheapo USB gamepad I bought 5 years ago wouldn't work with the Xbox 360, though.

No previews - this sucks!

[AngelOfDeath71]

I have three main criticisms of the Marketplace:

1) No real filtering / search mechanisms - I have a list of 200+ items in some categories that I have to scroll through to find what I want.

2) No previews of pictures / theme packs. Since they don't offer refunds in most (all?) cases, I don't want to spend points (even a lousy 20) on something that I can't preview in advance. Why can't I see a thumbnail preview of an icon or theme pack before purchase? I have the bandwidth!

3) Foreground downloads - there is no excuse to not let me at least continue using the XBox Guide or blades to listen to music or even play an XBox Live Arcade game while downloading. I shudder to think about downloading a (non-arcade) game demo - what am I going to do while downloading a 500MB file? I guess I'll go use my PC! :(

Otherwise, I'm very happy with my XBox 360 and XBox Guide / Marketplace. Good job Microsoft!

AoD71

Re:What the f*** is this again?

[hiphophap]

I'm serious! but from what my friend was saying they plan to do some custom work. Not to use it as a game box but to let the box become more of an entertainment controller on the car. I've already told him not to mess with the xcal because if he started trying to merge the two systems the car would most definitely quit working.

Re:Who will write the article "The Best 50 Xbox Ga

[Anonymous Coward]

Out of all of the titles you listed, only Halo 2 is exclusive to the xbox. Everything else is available on the pc and/or ps2, both of which have those games and far more (better) ones too.

Completely Untrue.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

These are new units, coming out in new weekly shipments. This is just more Anti-MS FUD. http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&t ask=view&id=1864&Itemid=2