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Mass Microsoft Defections to Apple Possible
An anonymous reader writes to mention a MacWorld article covering research by the Forrester group. Their report shows that mass dissatisfaction with Microsoft and its products could lead to defections from the company. From the article: "Over all, only Apple and Tivo saw their brand trust rise in the last two years, according to the report. The final tally saw Bose, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Panasonic and Sony earn the highest marks, while Microsoft, Gateway and LG ranked lowest. The low scores for Microsoft could mean good news for Apple as consumers showed their distrust of the Redmond-based software-giant."
I don't mean to be pedantic, but Dell, HP, Panasonic, and Sony all make Microsoft Windows PCs. Apple is the only company that makes Apple computers. If my calculations are correct, Apple is the one with continued minimal marketshare and Microsoft will ride along with those aforementioned four to grand success.
If all your sales outlets have really high customer satisfaction, it's not really a big deal if your customers hate your guts.
...unfortunately indicating that outrage over the Sony rootkit was a tempest in a teacup.
All MS has to do is keep backward compatibility for legacy apps and most everyone already using it will simply stay with it.
YIPEEEEEEEEE!!!
Okay, I'm a Mac geek, and as much as I'd like to see that, please, for fuck's sake, consider the source -- MacWorld has always been a pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking magazine. Back in the day, when Apple was one bad day from becoming a memory, MacWorld had a glowing-postive view of the future. A little success now, and they think that every bad review for Microsoft means that millions of users are just going to jump ship in a heartbeat.
I mean really? This is news? Product-specific magazine predicts rosy future for the product it reports on? No shit?
blog |
While most people distrust Microsoft, I wouldn't say a big influx will happen. True or Not most people even the ones who are considerably well "Tech smart" will probably stay with windows because they don't want change to that scale. Still most will look at the software available for Windows and how much for Mac. Even now that you can run windows on the Mac it doesn't alsways make sence for them to do so. Plus fears of needing new hardware, replaceing a lot of their extra cool stuff (even though it may work better on the mac) are afraid of loosing their investment and will not switch. Better the Devil you know then the Devil you don't
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Microsoft is a convicted monopolist. It doesn't matter how dissatisfied people get; they are stuck using Windows because all their computers run Windows and therefore their apps run on Windows. Because of Microsoft's illegal coercion tactics toward OEMs in the 90s, superior products weren't allowed to compete, and Microsoft cheated to achieve 95+% market share.
It's the reason Microsoft has actually held back computing by about five years, altering the course of history. We should be farther ahead in the experiences of using a desktop computer, and Mac users know what it feels like to be there already.
It's amazing the American economy has come to rely on something so...unreliable.
"Sufferin' succotash."
The other day i was mass mailing some fwds like i normally do and my friend who recently got a macbook pro was complaining she couldn't open some of the attachements. some were .wmv and .ppt files and some were .exe i know there is an office for mac's but i wonder how many would just want a web interface instead of paying all those fees for the windows office for mac. and no i didn't read the article its just an idea that came to me when i read the headline.
$action = empty(PHP) ? backToC() : unset(PHP) ; "when the concrete cases are understood, the abstractions are readily
There are many studies out there; leave it to MacWorld to find the one that suits them. It is highly unlikely people are going to want the hassle of moving all their files and programs to the Mac. I think the biggest problem is the fact that most games are not compatible with a Mac.
In other news, in preparation for the possibility of mass exodus from Microsoft products, Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft and long time aerobics enthususiast, has commissioned a secret project codenamed the "Chair Launcher 3000".
According to highly sensitive information that was leaked to us by an individual known only as "Dark Ottoman", the "Chair Launcher 3000" will combine real-time satellite imagery with a state-of-the-art targeting system making it capable of executing high-precision long-range chair-based attacks. To be more specific, you could be walking out of your local Apple store with you shiny new Macintosh in your arms, a smile stretched across your unsuspecting face, only to find yourself, moments later, crushed by a Windsor or an Adirondack dropped from a clear blue sky.
On an even more ominous note, shortly after providing us with this classified information, "Dark Ottoman" broke contact and vanished without a trace. While we are not sure of his fate, several days later an as yet unidentified Seattle man was found dead in a Best Buy parking lot, killed by a barrage of wicker chairs from the heavens. Steve Ballmer was unavailable for comment.
--
Was it the sheep climbing onto the altar, or the cattle lowing to be slain,
or the Son of God hanging dead and bloodied on a cross that told me this was a world condemned, but loved and bought with blood.
And here we have all been predicting that some user friendly Linux distro will cut into Microsofts market share.
SecurityPub.com
I think that people will just be disappointed with results. Let's face it, most people, most normal people will not buy a new machine just because. It may be the new hotness, but the reality that people can barely afford one computer, let alone 2 will sink in. Apples may be more expensive then a PC, but anyone who can afford more then a low end pc can also probably afford a Mac instead of the PC.
We're in a replacement market for computers, people just don't buy new computers because, it has to be because their old one is too old these days.
Did anyone else read this headline and blurb, and think about Microsoft employees defecting to work for Apple? I know it's talking about users, but I wonder if the Intel switch might inspire a number of disenchanted Redmond developers to get caught up by the Infinite Loop buzz. And whether the Apple folks would even try to reach out for the talent?
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Windows is and will remain the dominant operating system for years to come, never mind linux or mac too much is done on windows for a migration to another operating system. If you look at the business world they could'nt and wouldn't switch their entire system over to shiny white macs when they could have a load of Dell PC's at the fraction of the cost. For home users they want something cheap that can do the basics like go on the internet, get an email or two perhaps do some work. For gamers, they want something that can the latest games and than can be upgraded cannot meet those requirements. Macs are designed for graphics and to look nice, OS X is an excellent operating system I myself may purchase one of the new mactel machines, but when the consumer has a set budget then Apple is well out of their league, plus the source is unreliable as its rather bias from a Mac fan news site. The reality is without the Ipod, Apple would be doing a lot less well, because of the shear marketing factor the ipod has had on the company.
Why should I place any more weight in this article, than, say, something out of Redmond touting Microsoft?
frankly, why does eveyone think they can predict the future?
...about computers. Sony got high marks this year in customer confidence. That proves it pretty much.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Computer specialists and hard core Linux users and stuff may have a distrust towards Microsoft, but I think the general public probably could give a rats ass, and probably trust MS as much as any other company. iPod sales are more likely to cause conversion due to interest then distrust of the alternative. And most people that use a computer for email/web and don't really like to fixate on it would probably prefer to follow the "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" philosophy, which will lead them to using Windows systems for a very long time. I'm a big Mac user, but from most people I've talked to that use a computer as a tool for communication and that's all dislike OS X, because it's too different.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
I wish the article had more numbers and less hypothesis. The gist seems to be "people distrust Microsoft, therefore Apple could get bigger." Now, how long has Forrester been conducting these surveys and for how many years in a row has Microsoft been un-trustworthy in the public eye? If 5 million MS users have distrusted MS for years but are still using Windows, the survey doesn't mean anything.
Of course "Mass Defections to Apple are Possible". But they've always been *possible* and yet Microsoft still holds the majority of the market share. Too bad this article couldn't shed more insight than "Survey confirms what Slashdot already believes - people don't trust Microsoft."
Celebrate May Day and Protest.
Thank you and have a nice day,
Kiglore Trout, C.E.O.
After they get the hang of OS X, they will wonder why they ever tolerated Windows. . .
42
...and 3rd party mice were always supported by OS X natively.
But I do know that I am ditching my windows laptop for a Mac Book whenever they come out (supposedly in the next month or two). I'm inclined to replace my desktop later this year if they come out with an affordable Desktop Mac ($1500 or less) that I can put in a new video card every year or 18 months, new proc (assuming mobo compatibility), more/faster RAM, etc.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
I would love to switch over to an apple macbook pro, but frankly their laptops are too expensive, and for a student purchasing something so expensive to replace a laptop that still works fine isnt worth it. Many other people are already comfortable with windows, are uninformed about OS X, and are unwilling to shell out that much money for a laptop, particularly when they can go to Dell and buy a laptop for dirt cheap with an operating system that they don't have to relearn how to use. It would be great if people would switch away from Windows, but I don't see it happening to a large extent right now.
as in, it should be Microsoft will ride along with those aforementioned five to grand success.
see, Microsoft can now also sell to the purchasers of Apple hardware too.. it's called "boot camp"
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The people that make up the population in the survey say they distrust MS. Okay, fine. What they distrust is their business practices, not MS's software itself (rightly or wrongly). They also have a lot of dough tied up in their gear. I see an exodus to linux happening far before an exodus to apple. If apple released their os for the traditional wintel box for a good price, they might might more inroads. Even then, it would be tough sledding.
They say that proselytes are the most zealous of all.
Of course it's possible, but then again, it's also possible that we might all be wiped out by an asteroid impact later today. Counting on a mass exodus from Windows to the Mac would depend on a large IQ increase in the general populace, and nobody ever got rich by depending on that kind of thing.
I thought it said "Microsoft mass defications to Apple". Needless to say, I was quite confused.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=3m&s=AAPL&l=on&z=m &q=l&c=rnwk%2Cmsft
Maybe they'll defect to Real !
Here is some karma suicide for yah:
I agree, MacWorld is a glass always full kinda publication. And as an avowed mac freak, i for one do NOT want there to be a mass exodus of sheeple to the mac platform. One thing that keeps mac great is that in order to survive in the mac market, your software has to be pretty damn good and it has to just work. I do not look forward to our new Apple overlords. Being the little guy means more innovation, new interesting technology. As soon as Apple becomes the new M$ then it becomes all about keeping the cash cow alive at all costs. So, please, all you windows apologists! get crackin! We dont want your market share!
Don't be fooled by current trends or market statistics. Remember, Japan claimed they wanted to get into the auto business many decades ago. We laughed at them. What has been the popular choice for the last 20 years may or may not sustain. Taking gradual small percentages of market share over the 5-10 years will be the sneaking dagger. Apple is making distinct changes in how they are positioning themselves. Microsoft is just patching and repatching the same old monolithic liabilities. I mean who needs 6 different versions of the same crap? You can take fecal matter, shape it into bunny shapes, squirrels, etc. but at the end of the day it is still fecal matter. Look at the latest rewrite decision. I would bet that the personal home computer in it's current config will be a dinosaur prior to MS tanking though.
Sony? Highest level of trust?
Sony?!
The public is either a mass of idiots waiting to be fleeced, or..uh...
I think I just answered my own question.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
The old school reasons for not even trying a Mac have fallen away. The old saw was that Macs used nonstandard parts that were more expensive. The truth is that you can buy a cheap Mac Mini which uses standard RAM and notebook hard drives, and has a socketed CPU which can be upgraded. You don't have to give up your investment in Windows software, since Boot Camp lets you run Windows on your Mac if you wish to. If you end up deciding that you don't like MacOSX then you have a very classy super small mini me Windows based computer. No wasted money.
Windows users who give MacOSX a try find that they like it quite a lot. Anand Lal Shimpi over at Anandtech.com springs to mind. Windows uber user Paul Thurott also couldn't review the CTP of Vista without saying "I have certain misgivings about Vista resembling Mac OS X. With its translucent windows, such comparisons are going to be hard to avoid. But Vista's similarity with OS X goes well beyond window dressing. Certain applications, such as Calendar, Sidebar, and Photo Gallery, appear to be directly, ahem, influenced by similar applications in OS X." This is an OS that geeks can't help but love once they use it.
The really amusing thing is now the Mac supports more software than Windows does. You can run everything that runs on Windows, everything that runs on MacOSX, plus quite a bit of the software that runs on Linux. It's geek nirvana.
There really isn't any reason not go give a Mac a chance anymore. I'm an MCSE (gee, did you guess from my handle?)and I like OSX quite a lot. I can't wait to see what they do in the next version of MacOSX since it looks like Vista is going to be used dog food.
Like they did last August, when they released the Mighty Mouse?
Mass Microsoft Defections to Apple Possible
I love how a zealot of one face uses news of another that has nothing to do with it's own make it seem as if the world they live in just got brighter. MS gets defections everyday and has for years. Apple's overall usage is still around 3% right?
I find that *most* (not all) Mac users to be one of three types. In the Hollywood business, a woman, or of metrosexual *type*. All three types usually are controlled by emotions rather than logic.
I'm sure I will get negative karma for saying that, but it's normally what I see.
Define "mass."
Me personally? I plan on ditching Windows in the next few years when that DRM crap comes full swing into my DRM enabled monitors. I'll likely get a Mac so long as they don't follow with the same crap (and then Linux next). Security is a concern, but not a reason. I just hate how everything is always crashing. Who knows how many of my friends share the sentiment.
But "mass defections"? Businesses can't swap away even if they wanted to. And a simple "I sorta don't like them" isn't a good enough reason to swap over what works and has worked for a completely new system that will require completely new software licenses and adminstrators. And since many consumers learn how to use and get accustomed to computers at work, it's going to make it that much harder for joe average to switch.
The conclusion is a little ahead of itself, but for the record, the data should be relatively reliable. Forrester group is a commonly cited source for business and consumer data.
The problem is windows IS broken... We really need to fix it.
Microsoft has already admitted that security in XP is inadequate and that IE cannot be trusted to run without serious code to limit its power.
They also seem unable to produce an OS that doesnt require an army to maintain it.
Audio folks have a saying these days (and it doesn't apply to Bose's excellent 609 speakers from yesteryear):
No highs, no lows. Must be Bose.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
Wish these people would just leave. Seriously. go away. No more stupid articles about how Apple is superior to MS. Let us MS users do our work in peace.
The potential for mass defections is definitely there, but I think the most likely new Apple customers will be the geek crowd, or those "in the know." I'm sure that Apple will get a lot of experienced computer users (a.k.a. the Slashdot crowd) to switch now that they can fall back to Windows when they need to, but I think that Joe users will just stick with what they know not even aware that an Apple computer could possibly run Windows.
As easy as Boot Camp is to use and get Windows installed, you still have to install Windows. That's not something that your average users knows how or even wants to do. They want their computer to just work.
I suppose as the expert crowd buys more Macs then they'll become the tech support for all their friends and relatives so they could take care of the Boot Camp installation. It's just not something that's going to happen overnight.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Wow you weren't even close. Are you new around here? The only way to get first post is to continuosly hit the refresh button with a pretyped messaged saved for a quick middle mouse button click.
Freak'ing Newbs
what?
Just about everyone is fighting spyware now, the good old days when computer problems could be fixed with a virus scan and a defrag are long over. Most problems stem from security holes in the Windows OS and people taking advantage of those holes. Now lets look at what MS is trying to do to fix it... One Care? Once Care crashed the one system I installed it on to test it. I had to reformat the dang thing. IE 7? Have you seen the Known Issues sheet for the Beta 2? If you want to install any Updates to Windows you have to uninstall IE7 first. I know this is still Beta, but it's a step backwards from Beta 1. Vista is looking like a straight up bloody nightmare with different versions with different graphics engines and system requirements that are sky high... and this is just for the bloody OS which should be nothing more than a blank canvas for your Applications. I'm getting sick of Microsoft... and I'm not the only one. If Apple could put out reasonable prices for reasonable spec machines like you can order from Dell or HP or whoever. Add in an application like WINE that allows you to run your Windows application and games... then yeah, I bet lots of people would buy Apple and ditch MS. I would. But there are a lot of IF's there. And Apple hasn't exactly been the best company for vision, strategic planning and marketing. Yeah, they do a good job with the Ipod, but they are still a computer company. They've got a lot of issues to overcome before people make any mass shift.
MadOgre.com
LOL at ignorant comsumers!!!
On the flip side, you have idiots like Kantor saying just the opposite. Who knows? I think Microsoft should just come out with a Windows for Games and get it over with.....let people run OS X for real apps, and Windows for games.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
It doesn't have all of the apps that regular Windows users have so OSX will continue to be perceived by most people as not fitting their needs. The worst thing that could happen to Apple is that Windows on a Mac ends up becoming 2/3 of their userbase. While it would increase their profits, it'd do nothing to actually get more companies to port over to OSX. If anything, it might convince some of the dumber executives that what people really want is Windows and that a OSX port is not necessary.
MacWorld.com reports that sources close to Steve Jobs' proctologist have informed them that due Steve's recent penchant for Thai food, a mass exodus of gerbils stuck up Steve's rectum since the mid '70s is possible in the immediate future.
Monkeys might, just might, fly out of my butt at half past three next Tuesday.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
As much as I hate microsoft, I will have to admit that manufacurers of PC's running Windows are partly to blame. If there is anything worse than windows XP, its an OEM windows xp stuffed with marketing, and hand holding apps.
As far as security goes, home pc's practically come with a "kickme" sign on them, and the manufacturers response to this is often "sorry, you were kicked, there is nothing i can do in 15 minutes, let me transfer you to paid support or I suggest you call microsoft."
People are slowly starting to realize that mac's are actually pretty good Computers. If you can pry your user away from his OEM programs which locked him or her into a cylce such as "all my email is on aol" , or "all my documents are on works" etc.... {there is no then in C}
The price difference will stop the majority cold.
Put the machines next to each other in BB/CU or whereever you choose. People are going to go for the lower priced solution. Sure you will get some of the "gotta out do the Jones clique" types but most will just "settle for the windows pc"
Besides, most of the surveys are bunk. I know a great many people on both sides, one whose fulltime job is mac support, and they both can report nearly the same percentage of gripers.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
My crystal ball tells me all these things are possible:
- Linus Torvalds decides to chuck this whole tech thing and get a job at Chik-Fil-A.
- Pat Robertson converts to Islam.
- George Bush single-handedly solves the Iraq quagmire and acheives the highest approvral rating of a sitting U.S. President ever (98%, Mac users still hate him because he uses Windows) in the next two weeks.
- Sandra Bullock gives me a blowjob in the alley behind the Chik-Fil-A Linus is working at.
Hey, this is a fun game!
How many mouse buttons do you need? Apple has been shipping the Mighty Mouse with all new desktops for something like a year now, and OS X has automatically supported third-party multi-button mice since version 10.0 (and it wasn't hard in OS 9 either).
I'll grant you that Mac laptops still only have one button with the trackpad, but (again) it's easy (and often preferable) to plug in a mouse (with multiple buttons). I've also observed people using the trackpad's tap-to-click for left click and the actual button for right click, but I don't know if that's supported by Apple or is a hack of some sort.
So, if I may ask, what was your point?
Well that by it's self is enough. What? Chock this one up for, sorry folks but people are still.... stupid and have no idea what "good" is.
We even talked about Bose a few weeks ago. COME ON PEOPLE! Think for yourselves!!!
For once, the Slashdot headlines are far more sane;
*Some* defections are a pretty good bet, seeing as how people have been leaving windows for Mac OS for the last several years now. Of course, you're right that the macworld headline is fairly optimistic; to double market share would be quite an accomplishment. But does it really seem that far out? Apple has what, a 3.5% market share or something like it? To get to 7% seems very doable so long as Vista is delayed long enough, or just plain sucks. Just imagine if everybody who has an iPod bought a Mac MINI. That would far more than double their market share. Of course, I realize that's unlikely, but the iPod does make an excellent transition device. When people are exposed to the Apple interface, they often get hooked.
Overpriced hardware is as bad as overpriced software. The choice is easy and will save you a lot of money:
Industry standard (commodity) hardware + Free hardware = you win!
"The single mouse button is great for people like me" says Steve Johnson, Unemployed. Reload the page for a short comic relief, the message changes.
I see a lot of people saying this spells great news for apple computers. Well it may, but not in the way you think. Apple does not have a future in hardware. That much is clear. They will never be more then niche market provider. However, it seems to me that apple is laying the groundwork to makes its software fun on a PC. That is where they will make money. I would swith to an apple OS if I could keep my hardware. It's not the easiest thing to find gaming cards for a mac as many of you know. If suddenly, mac could run on ANY PC, you would begin to see other software companies port their wares to OS10 or whatever they're up to. Hardware is all the same to most people and in the end their experience is made or broken by its software.IMHO anyhow.
The idea that thousands of employees would leave because some survey says the brand name is poor is absurd to me. MS is making a killing and their quarterly profits year in and out are unreal.
Who cares about some brand recognition study? These people are all supposed to ditch their stock and steady income over an article on the web? Give me a break.
Last I checked Walmart sure has a lot of employees. Do any of you associate walmart with high quality?
Look, MS has some of the worse QC of any product. Period. Yet, everybody buys them. IOW, most consumers are no longer in control. They allow fewer and fewer companies to control. Back in the 60's/70's, the consumers did control, but now it take decades for them to really influence a company. Sony is not in trouble except in certain products.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"Microsoft faces big consumer defection risk: One measure of consumers' dissatisfaction with Microsoft is seen in the 5.4 million households that gave it a brand trust of 1 (distrust a lot) or 2 (distrust a bit),"
5.4 million customers? Such a staggering number, for Apple maybe. Really folks, how much revenue are these people going to generate for MS? A hundred bucks a pc, every 5 years?
If users need office they will have to buy it either way. In addition, it will be cheaper to buy the bundled version with a Windows based PC.
The salient point the article fails to make is that the real risk is to Apple. By not converting these people they miss out on revenue generated by hardware and software. Incidently, if you are a Mac owner, and you've paid for every major release of OS X, you've paid about $500 over the last 5 years for your operating system. Compare this with $120 (assuming 2k upgrade) for the last 5 years for an XP owner.
The article goes on to say that many people don't associate the iPod with Mac Computers. An interesting point - however it is going to be difficult for Apple to upsell people on a $3K computer, from a $300 purchase.
Bose, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Panasonic and Sony
Oddly enough, if you go into the typical suburban home, you will find a Panasonic plasma TV, a Bose surround sound system, a Sony receiver, a Dell PC (mail-order) or Hewlett-Packard PC (retail) and an HP inkjet. That's what families are shopping for. I've seen it.
Of course, Bose and Sony products are like scientology e-meters. Panasonic has a strong brand presence from selling EDTV's at reduced resolution. The Dell company is skating on razor-thin margins and HP...well, they make nice printers, but their PC's are turtles (reduced ram, K6 chips, etc).
What a wonderful picture of how consumers think. Call it consumer pro-grade? Something like that.
After recent news, I know a lot of people that want to switch. I want to switch as well. However, it's cost prohibitive. Most of the people I know are students, and students trying to afford college at that. Apple hardware is just out of our small budgets.
Fun Zoid RPG
Sorry, I didn't intend that as trolling, and should have checked my facts first.
I use Microsoft products daily.
Do I trust Microsoft? No way!
I would agree that (among my client base) there is a general uneasy feeling building towards Microsoft. So the idea that their ranking is lower does not surprise me at all.
Do I trust Apple? Not anymore than Microsoft.
The conspiracy theorist in me believes the real motive behind their switch to Intel has to do with standardizing DRM.
When all of the hardware is "Trusted" then who will you trust at all?
"Kittens give Morbo gas!"
Be careful not to interfere with the two animals while they are in their natural habitat. On the right, you can see the Windows troll. He is identifiable by his tendency to make sharp insults that are long outdated. Here we see him make a jab at a Mac user.
... Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that! While it is not true of the entire species, many Apple fanatics are in fact unable to perform even basic math operations.
Apples tend to be 60% overpriced anyway.
On the left, hidden by the foliage, you can barely make out the Mac fanatic. He is identifiable by his quick defense of the Mac platform. Sometimes this species puts together coherent thoughts, but as you can see in this case, he is more interested in showing his rainbow-striped plumage than engaging in an actual battle. He is hoping that the Windows troll will be frightened away by the display.
show me any PC that can match every spec on an iMac or MacBook Pro that costs 60% less.
You in the back. You had a question?
Now let's head back to the classroom so as to let these little buggers get back to their routine.
I am so sick of reading about how Apple is going to increase their market share tenfold by making it possible to boot windows XP! Apple makes a decent computer. Not great specs by any standards, but they use reliable parts and it all fits together very well and looks seksy. But it's damn expensive too! I can't see a gamer spending a crapload of money on a system that they can't slap the latest video card into every 6 months. And I can't see a business spending crap tons of money on a more expensive machine to do all the same tasks they currently do. Maybe they'll sell some upgrades to people who use an older mac and want the ability to dual boot, but beyond that...?
More to the point... BOSE?!? The loudspeaker company from which comes a never-ending flow of outrageous claims and even more outrageous pricing?
Is it really Microsoft's product? I mean a fresh clean install of Windows XP is fantastic and I have 0 problems with it (my Mac with OSX freezes more than my Windows PC). It's when people put a million pieces of crap on their computers that it starts to breakdown, and for very good reason. Think of all the crappy software that gets put on these computers and people would associate those issues with Microsoft, blaming it on the OS when it reality it's their own faults.
The main issue would be security but the only reason Mac's dont have this issue as much as Windows is that it isn't attacked as much. Take the hundreds of thousands of hackers chipping away at Windows and have them change their focus to Macs and we'll see how quickly OSX becomes "faulty" like Windows is.
I wouldn't blame MS for 1/2 of their problems.
I agree with the post, but it reads like a hybrid of two similar but slightly differently worded posts, spliced together a phrase at a time.
Really folks. I love the way Apple is going these days. But there are two areas that really drive me nuts. a) Intel processors. Next to Microsoft there is no company I really dislike more than Intel. Intel is evil. b) Please can we get a Apple Laptop with a NVIDIA GPU? ATI's drivers stink in Linux and are worse in Windows. Not as big of an issue for OSX, but still, if I boot into XP to play a game, I don't want to have problems with my drivers.
A Apple Laptop with a GeForce 6 and a dual core 64-bit AMD processor = my every dream come true.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
From what I've seen and heard, the OS X kernel is a complete mess, and Apple is considering a rewrite since they are having trouble making it meet their performance (particularly with respect to threading) and stability goals. On the other hand, the Windows kernel is supposed to be quite a clean, although with parts here and there that are excessively messy.
.NET--it allows future development to be done on the much cleaner .NET code, with Win32 being put in maintenance mode.
For userland, the situation is probably the other way around; Cocoa at least is probably much cleaner than Win32. Which may explain a lot of the reason why Microsoft is pushing
Any report that tells me LG is bad and Sony is good is suspect in my eyes. High end Sony products are good, but their midrange stuff tends to be unreliable and poorly made. Let's not even talk about their low end products. LG on the other hand has gotten better every time I buy something from them. My LG DVD writers are excellent and have never failed me.
Most Americans don't trust the US government yet you don't see them in a mass migration out of this country. Instead there are people still clamoring to get in.
It's a lot easier to buy something different than it is to move away (or with) friends and family and losing all the knowledge you've built up of a place over time.
In fact I read some study that said contrary to popular belief, more people were actually orrting odwn in one spot than previously in the history of the US. So people are reluctant even to move to another state, let alone another country.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The mac books have been out a few months: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=7ADAF62A&nclm=MacBook Pro
The mac mini is a fine desktop starting under $600: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=7DD91D41&nclm=Macmini
The 13" mac book will be out in a few months, and that will start around $999.
In the Windows/Linux world, Amd64 notebooks seem to be tthe best bang for the buck right now. I don't think OS/X software is taking full advantage for the Intel dual core processor yet. Heck, Win xp doesn't take advantage of the 64 bit stuff in the AMD64 yet. For that you need Linux or BSD. The gentoo / slackware crowd probably has a port to the dual core optimized. Thy're pretty quick.
It didn't happen to Linux - it won't happen to Apple.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Can we please bring back the OMG Ponies! theme for this rash of Apple fanboy articles? It would be more appropriate for the tone of most of the recent Apple articles and the slavish comments.
...would be able to quote this as a good thing. The fact that Sony, Dell, and Bose also scored high shows that the study has nothing to do with quality of company at all. Look at Dell, its outsourced support, its inferior products. Look at Sony, rootkits, proprietary formats, total lack of quality in most components... Look at bose, in the industry it stands for "buy other sound equipment", and frequently people say "no highs, no lows, must be bose", there's also a slogan that alters the company motto: "bose: better sound through marketing". These companies aren't being graded in this article because of _quality_ as the other companies listed are hardly quality players themselves. If Apple fans want to be taken seriously, they should stop worrying so much about winning converts or market share and start worrying about how to make cheaper or actually superior products. Anything short of wanting this end, instead of just popularity, is just brand loyalty and nothing else. So if this makes you smile, it's probably because you are a fan boy.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Sony got high marks this year in customer confidence. That proves it pretty much.
Not really, it just means people aren't paying attention to music labels much - when I buy a CD I know I'm not looking.
The consumer sonfidence from Sony comes from things like TV's CD players, and the PS2. When you look at all those they are indeed pretty reliable, if generally somewhat overpriced. But in the long run working is what matters for confidence.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is just silly, even Apple knows that their O/S just isn't useful to most people, they just released a tool to let you put Windows on their boxes for christ sake.
Not saying there is anything wrong with MacOS, I use it. But it isn't useful to many people to be in the 1% minority. The entire purpose of computing is the ease of data exchange, not trying to be different.
I wouldn't be surprised is Apple was already planning on phasing out their software and just providing hardware/ipod.
Heres a nice qoute from Steve Jobs:
"If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago."
-- Fortune, Feb. 19, 1996
Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
All sorts of problems: whining noises, extreme heat, random shutdowns. Apple eventually acknowledges them, offers a new motherboard revision to all MPB owners, but the word is that not only are these problems still there, but the heat issue has gotten worse.
Maybe Apple has been dodging these issues in the past by going with slower, less complex processors? In any case, they've given me a definite wait-and-see attitude.
The thought of Mac being the dominant OS scares me. I doubt it will happen, but seriously, I hope people wouldnt trade a software monopoly for a hardware/software monopoly. You think macs are overpriced now.....
MacWorld took some marketing data that showed the Apple brandname has a high "trust level" and jumped to a ridiclous conclusion that Macs Will Take Over The Universe. The study said nothing about purchasing patterns, and indeed nothing about Macs (Apple==iPod in most consumers minds).
Sure, it's possible. It's also possible that monkies might fly out my but. Possible, but not likely. The monkies, I mean...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=my&l=on&z=m &q=l&c=rnwk,msft
The people that make up the population in the survey say they distrust MS. Okay, fine. What they distrust is their business practices, not MS's software itself (rightly or wrongly).
What makes you think that? Why would a whole user population constantly under attack from viruses and spyware not fall into a dislike of Windows itself? That's what I have seen with a lot of people.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I just got a Macbook Pro last week and after messing around for a few hours in OSX, I'm cool with being Windows free. I primarily do web design, graphics, and music so a mac is the most obvious choice.. however up to this point I've been strictly a windows user. It's nice to have the option to install xp on a mac, for whatever reason, and whereas this probably will not heard millions of people to a mac, it will be a pretty nice incentive for a lot of people to switch.
People who aren't afraid to disrupt their familiar (yet uncomfortable) surroundings in the PC world will be much better off giving Apple a shot.
that when xp is no longer an option (or possibly before), i'm switching to Mac. Mostly because of all the drm that's going to be in vista.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I'm not going to argue the overpriced claim. I'll leave that to someone else.
However, most people won't care to match exactly. There are enough different companies that sell enough different PCs that it is possible to find something "good enough" for FAR LESS then the closest Apple offering.
Alienware aren't THAT far overpriced either--if you were to buy the exact same hardware. But no one BUYS the exact same hardware. You save $50 here and $100 there and end up paying 1/2 for a comparably performing machine without a few things that you'd never use anyway.
Compare instead a $400 dell to a $600 minimac. (And note the cost difference.)
If you are using a Windoze crippled PC and want the good looking interface, stability and media capability of a Mac you can:
The Mac mini is a beautiful machine and OS X is a big improvement over Windoze.
Mepis looks great and does most of what you want.
If you count the trip to the store and the higher OSX learning curve, Mepis is less trouble.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
They are the exact opposite of Open Source, more so even than Microsoft. So if my FOSS operating system is working great, on cheap hardware I might add, what incentive is there for me to buy an expensive cage in which to lock myself up and hand Apple the key?
The salient point the article fails to make is that the real risk is to Apple. By not converting these people they miss out on revenue generated by hardware and software. Incidently, if you are a Mac owner, and you've paid for every major release of OS X, you've paid about $500 over the last 5 years for your operating system. Compare this with $120 (assuming 2k upgrade) for the last 5 years for an XP owner.
Yes but OS X users are running the equivilent of Vista right now. How much is Vista going to cost, and wouldn't you be willing to pay a little more to be running it about two years earlier? You are ignoring the beenfit I get for my exta feature with reduced time spent on tasks and the ability to make use of new system features.
I think it's pretty funny that you've managed to spin Microsoft's lack of ability to deliver on Vista into a major price comparison plus for Windows!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Give us a link to the model on the Dell site, so we can verify the info.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Very true. But for many users, I think until they are affected, it doesn't matter to them. Thus why MS has had to be so forceful with the updates, and why the updates were rarely used before that virus that spread through ip networks, and not email.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one! And there's Magnetbox, and Sorny.
Not first post.
So it seems to me that you could partition the disk 25% HFS, 25% NTFS, and 50% fat32 and have access to 75% of your disk space at any given time. Doesn't that address the core of the filesystem problem?
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
That's when they buy a Mac Mini.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
BARSTOW, CA (AP) - Today, computer scientists at the DeVry Institute claimed to have solved the Halting Problem, a classic thought experiment of theoretical computer science. The problem's insolvability, a landmark in the field, was proposed by theoretician Alan Turing in 1938.
"We were skeptical at first, of course", said Dr. Ephraim P. Fingerbottom, emeritus professor of computability theory at DeVry. "The Halting Problem's intractibility is one of those snippets of lore we love to torture undergraduates with, so we really had no practical motive for accepting this hypothesis. Come to think of it, we have no practical motives at all, we're theoreticians. Anyway, our faces fell when we proofed the submission, let me tell you. Never ask a theoretician to come up with new material. Hell, now we may to juggle teaching and the hunt for grant money like everyone else."
Nonetheless, Dr. Fingerbottom was heartened by the new-found stature of his department in light of these findings. "We're attracting some exciting new talent here", he said, perspiring under the layers of chalk dust that have covered his face since 1962. "This development, coupled with our reduction of the '3-SAT problem' to a scientific proof of the existence of God, has swelled our ranks with students who want to do something else other than write software and make money."
The resulting paper will soon be published in the next issues of Communications of the ACM and the DIMACS Journal for Applied Math.
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
....and will have Duke Nukem 3D installed!
When I match the specs/features, I get $2,075 for the Dell and $2,399 for the Apple or a difference of $324. That's hardly 66%.
Here are the specs/features I used for each:
Apple
----------
$2,399
Dell
----------
$2,075
These really aren't even exact matches, but they're very similar and moreso than the prices you quoted.
* The Mac includes a backlit keyboard, remote control, OS X install disk, CD/DVD RW, Bluetooth, and ATI video standard while the Dell does not, which is why, aside from the backlit keyboard they're added to the Dell. Although the remote on the Dell won't work with XP Pro supposedly.
** Despite the limited web hosting ability of XP Pro, OS X more closely resembles WindowsXP Professional over the Media Center version. Macs always include an OS X install disk while most (if not all) PC vendors charge extra for the Windows disks.
If I only had a share of Apple stock for every time I've heard this.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
Either the survey's methods are bad, or the American consumer's idea of what makes a company trustworthy is hopelessly muddled. Either way, they results of any "brand trust" survey that gives high marks to Bose (Wal-Mart quality at audiophile prices) HP (refilling our $50 ink cartridges that only last a month is illegal) and Sony (Played our music lately? You've got malware!) is worthless.
0 1 - just my two bits
Apple fanboys have always stated the hardware as a reason to switch, since that has gone, as has application exclusiveness, the only reason left to switch is OS X(*cough*FreeBSD*cough*), which most people wont do becuase of boot camp.
Another argument I hear for this often is the fact that gamers can switch with ease now. What kind of serious gamer uses a X1600?"Oh boy"
Only a kid would be so ignorant as to not even attempt to plug a multi-button USB mouse into a USB port just to see if it works. If you're too braindead to do that, why are you even reading slashdot?
Everyone's commenting on Apple's move last week on a very surface level, what it does for Apple and broadening their market.
What BootCamp is really about is drawing a line in the sand for Windows. Until Microsoft does a real ground-up re-write, XP is the final, penultimate version of Windows, and Apple is cementing this fact. They're freezing MSFT at the 2001 level, making Vista an even more isolated branch of Windows. The "pillars" of Vista will be backported to XP and run just fine on the Intel macs.
Incredibly, Apple has raised the platform migration barrier for Windows, with their support for XP, and only XP.
Apple's wrapping their arms around product year (n-5), meaning that XP is even more the vanilla target platform for the Windows ISV community. Why invest development time and $$ to make your app run with full bells and whistles in a niche platform like Vista? So XP becomes the "final" Windows, compatible until Microsoft makes a genuine platform break (which they can never do).
BootCamp is a devastating strategic blow to Microsoft!
Speaking as a Mac user, it's been possible for years, and predicted for years. Call me when there's some evidence that it's actually happening.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Apple releases Leopard and says, "We offer backwards compatibility with Windows applications, and fully support AppleVM." Consumers say, "I could ditch Windows and keep my apps... plus I won't have to pay for virus protection or deal with anti-spyware nearly as much as in Windows." Microsoft says, "Stay with us! We'll have Vista soon! Nine versions!"
There are two killer apps that really hook you into the new Macs... Spotlight and the remote (that doesn't have 300 buttons). Until Microsoft can deliver that kind of experience out of the box, they are in trouble.
Will Smith, iRobot
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Those are the two things that keep Apple from claiming significant market share. Businesses don't want to lay out the cost if they can avoid it and PCs are just cheaper. The guys that make the decisions don't see the pro's and con's for what they are, they skip to the price tag and stop looking.
As for games...computer games are a multi-billion dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood in some regards. Until Apple supports initial launch of 90% of computer games, there is going to be a LARGE contingent of computer owners who will never buy one.
Reality sucks, eh?
I would think that a few Windows engineers might leave, given that their talents in getting Windows working on the Mac platform might be more appreciated, but I doubt that mass defections are likely to occur.
... rain forecast for today and this weekend, as always, up here in Seattle area.
Mind you, the weather down there is nicer
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
1) Allow MAC OS X to be installed on standard non-apple PCs. 2) Let it simmer for 2-5 years 3) Get ready for a release of top-notch new apple PCs AND a new version of MAC OS 4) Announce that that the new version of MAC OS would only work with apple PCs 5) Sit back and watch the 90% windows market share dwindle to like 70%
It's amazing the American economy has come to rely on something so...unreliable.
Like a lot of people on this forum I work for a big company with over 10,000 users. Imagine the checks that must get written to M$ for Windoze and Office. Millions! It is done willingly! Multiply that by 1000's of companies of similar size. In the cost cutting environment of corporate America how the heck has M$ defied gravity, especially when there are low cost alternatives? Everything else in our technology environment is bid competatively. You would think the cost factor of dealing with a monopolist would force the change.
an ill wind that blows no good
So, uh... which is it?
For every karma whore there are four more people with mod points to kill.
Microsoft was convicted for illegal busines practices, including illegal OEM coersion. A quote from the findings of fact:
"...by pressuring Intel to drop the development of platform-level NSP software, and otherwise to cut back on its software development efforts, Microsoft deprived consumers of software innovation that they very well may have found valuable, had the innovation been allowed to reach the marketplace. None of these actions had pro-competitive justifications."
"Most harmful of all is the message that Microsoft's actions have conveyed to every enterprise with the potential to innovate in the computer industry. Through its conduct toward Netscape, IBM, Compaq, Intel, and others, Microsoft has demonstrated that it will use its prodigious market power and immense profits to harm any firm that insists on pursuing initiatives that could intensify competition against one of Microsoft's core products. Microsoft's past success in hurting such companies and stifling innovation deters investment in technologies and businesses that exhibit the potential to threaten Microsoft. The ultimate result is that some innovations that would truly benefit consumers never occur for the sole reason that they do not coincide with Microsoft's self-interest."
Which of course, is meaningless, given you weren't even born until 1997.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The Dell doesn't come with a core duo processor. This is probably a better comparison:
x ?reconfigure=true&cart=ActiveCart&id=a33ad1fd-591d -47b0-b549-5cc6913636c2&ecomm=ecomm.dell.com&c=us& l=en&cs=19
A ppleStore.woa/6094001/wo/1Cd712L7qeTb2wiaUGA2zomFd V8/4.?p=0
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/
The Apple includes an ATI X1600, while the Dell uses an ATI X1400.
But Microsoft's idea of backwards compatibility is limited to allowing you to convert your file from the previous version of an app to the format for the newest one. Case in point: I have an Access database that I created in Access97 on the box in my lab. The computers in the library were running the latest version of Access. With this version I can't modify my database without first converting it to the new format. After I do this I can no longer open the file with Access97. Hardly backward compatible.
Of course, the library decided that there wasn't enough use of Access to justify the cost, so they failed to renew the license for it, leaving me with a file that I can't do anything with anywhere on campus. Thanks Bill!
yp
I can see the masses switching to macs. Basically becaused the masses are hopless sheep that don't have a clue about computers in the first place. Honestly mac's are for idiots you plug them in and they work no knowledge what so ever. As for me give me a high end personally built pc (that also cost half the price) with linux and cedega for my gameing and I'm good.
I detect an Orbital devotee. Or maybe a Star Trek fan. Or both :-)
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
I'm a Microsoft employee in the process of trying to defect to Apple (i.e. to work there); since I started down that path I've come across numerous other Microsoft employees, ranging from relatively junior to very senior actively trying the same. The outrageous cost of living in Silicon Valley has stopped most of them (and has a high probability of stopping me). That's good for Apple, perhaps, as a way to avoid the growth for the sake of growth mentality that hurts Microsoft.
If Apple is going to capitalize on the distrust people have for Microsoft, they need to get OS X 10.4 running on any Wintel box and they need to do it now, and have it for sale on shelves before the eye-candy smoke-and-mirrors that is Vista can be shoved out the door by Microsoft.
I am amazed that anybody could seriously believe that Apple could profit by going head-to-head with Microsoft for its core business. Microsoft has previously shown a willingness to cut prices radically when necessary to protect its near-monopoly. So you have Apple taking on enormously increased support costs, while getting into a price war with a much wealthier competitor? And you think this will benefit Apple?
On the other hand, Apple has had a much better reputation than MS with consumers for a long time, and it hasn't helped them build market share. However, the Forrester report predated the ability to dual boot Windows on new Macs. I'm surprised at the number of Windows owners I'm now seeing talking about buying Macs. It seems that the major obstacle for many people switching to the Apple was the fear of getting locked into OS X and then finding that something they needed was only available for Windows. That concern has now vanished. It will be interesting to see whether that frees up all of this pent-up Apple envy and translates into big sales for Apple.
How much profit does Apple make when they sell a copy of OSX?
OSX is just the vector; the machine is the goal.
The problem with your idea is that it makes sense.
very very informative, unbelieveably informative in fact
the world is round and the sky is blue. does it really take a research group to figure out that unhappy customers might stop using the product they're unhappy with?
Trying to say that an OSX user is paying $100 for an update is really deceptive. OSX "updates" are pretty much a completely new OS. It's more like Windows 95 -> 98 (which Microsoft charged for), 98 -> 98SE (which Microsoft charged for), or 98SE -> ME (which...well, I'm sure you get the point).
By calling it an update you imply it's the same as the hastily applied bugfixes we get on a daily basis to patch holes in Windows that should have never been there to begin with.
nothing like the facts to kill an agrument
I had my DNS services die on my powerBook G4. I think the box was hacked and it was my fault. I installed some theft tracking software and the supplier recommended a default account with no password and auto login -- so if the laptop was stolen the theif could us it and be tracked. However I spend so much time pissing on 419 scammers my machines are under constant attack. Once I had a user with no password, then it must have been hacked up through rights elevation type hacks. It was easy to fix with the computer migration tools.
I purchased a Mac this week. I was never one to like Windows and have generally used Linux for most of my computing. I purchased a Mac because I was tired of the constant security issues with Windows and was not overly happy with performance. Although the Mac was a little pricey, I have found that I truely do like the overall feel, operation and even look of the Mac and the integration with multimedia devices and ease of use.
[%] Cingular Ringtones
I used macs from around 1984 (Plus, SE, etc) to the mid/late 90s.
Then I freaking "defected". (because in fanatic mindset only evil morality terms are used) Apple is no different than microsoft in how it thinks of consumers...except they want to own all the hardware and have it locked up in screwless cases too. They're a stupid niche market and always will be, they totally blew their only real chances in the 90s.
MS allowed cheap hardware, I have to run windows (2000 ofc, nothing since) for decent gaming and some win specific apps, but eventually linux et al will wipe it off the map. (personally I think they have 15-20 years left before MS dies) MS is crap but its crap you can work with for now at least.
Apple and its 'you can have your car in any color as long as its black or black with an extra coat of gloss' mindset can go suck an egg.
BTW for all you people that fawn over their crap in shiny cases, take note of how they lowball every other part they possibly can...always the lowest end whitebox HDs and memory. Theres some x-serves in the building here that practically eat one HD every few months.
...that makes the transition difficult. For a long-term Windows user it would mean buying a new software suite unless vendors start giving good cross-grade pricing. There's lots of money tied up in software and shifting it to a new platform may well cost several times the cost of the platform itself. Looking at my quad-G5 I see that I have well over the cost of the machine and its 30" display in software.
The user experience would have to become very bad for me to move.
On the other hand the troubles friends have with the Windows machines seems to suggest that they have passed that line already!
USA Today: Boot Camp will start exodus to Windows
From the article: "Further, your IT department now has to support two operating systems, which -- given that the majority of IT pros aren't Mac people -- means hiring or training. But let's say you're blessed with a staff that already knows both. You're still faced with two OSs, two sets of problems, and double the headache. Oh, joy..."
you'll have to excuse me I've litterally been on a deserted island for the past year and a half. But man thats eirie. Its sort of sad to see them advertise the features as "new" and "never before" as the preexisting mac is demonstrated. It seems as if vista will be obsolite by the time its released. It also seems as if both Mac and windows are starting to blur the lines between applications and OS even more then they already are. I'm happy with the photo editing software I have now (irfanview). I really don't want either OS to take control of it, and I don't want them to squash the other programs. So I'm Glad there is still Linux and FOSS. The current enviorment should allow the best ideas to come to light.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
You mean you *haven't* got gig-E around your home ?
:-)
:-)
So, the server/RAID lives (properly housed) in the garage because it's bloody noisy. The network is gig-E so I can pipe simultaneous HD streams to different parts of the house as well as for fast file transfers - the living room, bedrooms and office can all take an HD feed and play on plasma/LCD screens.
I'm working on getting the mini to control the cable box (via firewire) at the moment - as soon as I get that working, I'll have a lot more HD content... [sigh] another raid
Sure, I'm not typical. But the "?!?!!?" demanded at least *one* response
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Ok, so it's unlikely to happen anyways - but if one were to toy around with the thought that Macs would rise to take a significant portion of the operating systems used, what would that mean? Not much, from my point of view. It would just mean new vendor lock-in, and probably even worse interoperability as the Apple specific formats become more common. While today WMA, DOC, XLS and PPT are enough trouble, we'd add AAC, CWK, SIT and what have you to the list. DRM will be just as common and prevalent (witness Fairplay and iTunes).
I'll readily admit that I don't know much about Macs and the formats that are used, maybe most are or are becoming open - I just know that every so often I get a file I can't open from a Mac user (yesterday, an AppleWorks file was the most recent). It was the same when I used Windows, so apparently little has changed over the years. That I can open MS files is just because the community has been so hard at work deciphering the formats and reimplementing them. If Apple becomes any more common, the community possibly would have to start over.
The way that Apple has handled any open source connections to their OS and other products quite clearly shows that they only want to take advantage of it, not contribute back [1] [2] [3]. While open standards and open source is not the same thing, and standards is IMO more important, they share a lot of common attributes and philosophy behind. I don't think Apple is interested in either.
It's quite possible that Apple makes a great OS, and great hardware, but it is also quite clear that they are just as predatory and monopolistic as ever Microsoft - they just haven't had the numbers to make the same impact. And I couldn't care which vendor tries to lock me hard to their platform and their DRM, it's all bad in either case. Until Apple decides to play fair with the rest of the world I won't be thinking any better of them than I do MS - being the underdog does not excuse bad behaviour, nor does "but they are doing it".
Being pragmatic to me does not only mean "use what works" it also means looking at what "will work" - and what will continue to do so.
(PS, I can't get a new, open format copy of the cwk file I received until the end of April due to vacations - anyone know of anything that can read this format on a Linux system? Thanks. DS)
Spine World
Windows = Old and Busted
OS X = New Hotness
Get with the program. If your living with an old Dell, a new iMac aint that bad!
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
I don't know what kind of wacky, dumbed-down math they do at USA Today, but IME one Mac guy can ably support 5 or 10 times the number of machines a good Windows guy can, because shit goes wrong with the Macs much less often and they're much more easily and quickly fixed when they do. That hardly translates to double the headache.
Enterprise IT doesn't even bother trying to fix Windows problems anymore, they just blow the machine away and reimage when shit happens, and if that doesn't do the trick they replace the hardware. I couldn't tell you the last time I encountered a Mac that was so fucked up the only thing I could do to get it working right was reimage it.
I went to the Inspiron E1505 page. I started with the 80GB one, i.e. same size hard drive as the MacBook Pro. I upgraded the processor to 1.83GHz core duo, to match the MacBook Pro. I upgraded the OS to XP Pro with a real reinstall CD, to match the full version of OS X with dev tools that you get on CD with the Mac.
I gave Dell the benefit of the doubt for the LCD quality, and left it with the cheapest. I added a DVD burner and Bluetooth, like the Mac has, and a 128MB Radeon to approximately match the Mac's video. I left the Dell with the cheapest battery, even though it has less capacity than the Mac's.
The resulting price is $1891, vs $1999 for the Mac. That's including an "instant $200 discount" from Dell. So when you actually configure them similarly, the Mac is about 6% more expensive than the Dell.
And I strongly suspect that you really need to go for the better LCD on the Dell, in which case the price premium for the Mac drops to just $8. And that's for a machine that's thinner and weighs less.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I forgot to add:
My Macworld subscription just expired this month, and I'm thinking of not renewing. Nowadays when I read it I see lots of stories I read weeks ago on the web, iPod junk I'm not all that interested in, and with the harder hitting technical content and advanced Photoshop how-tos gone, I'm finsing little reason to keep getting the magazine, especially given the price and smaller size. For awhile I was signing on in two year blocks because of an extra discounted rate, but that promotion is gone and all you can do now is get a free gift sub (but it has to be a concurrent sub for someone else not to yourself), so a sales pitch, not a real deal for the reader.
I dont want to discount his points completely because I am sure anyone who has to deal with a purchasing dept and IT dept and coworkers on different platforms can relate to his scenarios. But, I dont agree with any "exodus".
90% of users only use a few programs. Those programs are avaliable on both systems. For those people it will be a wash at least. If 10% do change platform for these 3 or 4 programs then who it to think they would only go from Mac to windows. Definitly not Wall Street. If 10% of both mac and windows users change then mac wins. 10% of windows market share is a massive number compared to 10% of mac market share.
The Wall Street analysists have figured this out.
Also, if price is an issue then why are there high end products still being sold that only support XP? (lenovo)
His arguments are a first order glance at the issues. There are many factors he left out.
I love this competition though. I cant wait for the next Dell and Toshiba models to come out to compete. It would be great if they got really inovative in new designs to stand out.
I have secretly hidden some mispelled words in this post. Can you find them?
Hasnt this always been a possibility? Isnt there always a possibility for everything?
i have some good reasons for not doing so:
1) I'm used to windows and most of the ppl i know are used to it too. I find it difficult to convince my friends to pass to firefox let alone proposing them a whole new OS. Geeks tend to underestimate the power of habits of the average user. I know many ppl incapable of switching from nokia to another cell phone brand. Stupid maybe but my feel is that many just stick with what they know if it works for them.
2) Apple stuff costs a lot, whatever mac enthusiasts may say. A mac mini essentially is an entry level machine and its price sucks, you can get more than that for your money. And used parts cost pretty much as new pc components.
3) I have no passion in supporting a stupid multinational as if it was a political party. Both MS and Apple are in it for the money so i don't see why Jobs is any better than Gates. If i were to defect i would try something free like linux. Now that's something you can get passionate about.
4) Windows is user friendly. I don't care about the uber geeks that say this and that about windows being bloated and that it doesn't work and keeps crashing. Simply not true. Just set it properly, maintain it clean and it will work. Sure does on my machines. Just a home user but hey i never saw blue screens of death and didn't get blasted by any virus. Just followed some good advice like not using IE and disabling the stuff i dont need.
5) I really like building my own box. I LOVE chinese and korean cheap parts and couldn't care less if they fail after 2 years of use. I just grab my latest fetish of ebay and install it in my machine and it just works (well not always but i can usually find a workaround for all my parts\gadgets)
6) Used stuff. Many ppl just throw away their perfectly working hardware just to get the latest tech available. Bad for them good for me. I like picking some older stuff and assembling perfectly working machines for almost nothing. Can't see how would it be possible to make a pc from scratch easily if it wasnt for windows (well yeh Linux but you have to TYPE stuff to make things work)
7) Apps. I'm not familiar with mac stuff but i'd say that for the avearage user it's a whole lot easier find and install apps on a windows pc, same goes for games
So till a really plug and play linux distro comes out (like one where you just put a cd and install and recognizes all of your hardware out of the box) i don't see any reason for migrating
Of course "Brand-Aware" Windows users are starting to move to Macs. Microsoft has taken the Windows brand, put it on a T-shirt, and worn it to the idiot party. Anybody who uses a computer and is even remotely brand-conscious knows that Apple has it and Microsoft doesn't have it.
But I'm noticing a trend among Mac users, too: A lot of the geekier users are pretty disappointed to see their ranks swelling with complete airheads who *only* care about brand. It's been this way for a while, but it seems to be getting worse. Growing pains, I guess.
Their report shows that mass dissatisfaction with Microsoft and its products could lead to defections from the company
In other news...a study shows that repeatedly being kicked in the nuts could cause problems with reproductivity.
I just started a new job and got a brand new MacBook Pro. I have it running Windows XP just fine. I forgot how much better virgin Windows was than installs you get from Dell, HP, etc... I also have Parallels running ok. There are still a few issues with that beta, but it's developing very rapidly and is already useful in many ways. Since starting a few weeks ago, our office is switching over pretty much daily with a new MacBook Pro. It's pretty cool to have happen...especially when we want to do video conferencing. Boot Camp is definitely a strong selling point. It's allowing us to run a few pieces of software that are Windows only, or that we don't want to cross-grade. Plus it's a safety net of allowing people to run Windows if they find they don't take to OS X, though so far everyone has.
if one were to toy around with the thought that Macs would rise to take a significant portion of the operating systems used, what would that mean?
It would mean pretty much the same thing as having Linux rise to a significant portion of the operating systems used. They're both UNIX plus a bunch of bloated applications and toolkits: Quartz and Cocoa and the Apple frameworks on the one side; and Gnome and KDE and the associated massive libraries on the other.
From the point of view of a command line user who mostly uses X11 or Aqua to run a bunch of shell windows and a web browser, the main difference is that you can actually get third-party software for Macs. That's about it.
And you are forgetting that Microsoft XP Home Edition does not take full advantage of having core duo processors - only XP Professional supports SMP. Mac OS Tiger will make full use of core duo.
Are we seeing shelling $150 (approx) for XP pro?
All of my main production software already has good mac versions. Im definitely dumping windows and so are my coworkers and our company.
Do I trust Apple? Not anymore than Microsoft.
Trust but verify.
The main reason it's so hard to "trust Microsoft" isn't that there's particularly anything evil about them, it's that their system is such a dysfunctional ecosystem of poorly understood and poorly documented components it's virtually impossible to track problems down.
Mac OS X is not only better documented, the components themselves are more exposed to inspection.
I've been jonesing for a MacBook Pro so that I can try OSX, but unfortunately the prices of a new Dell are just too good to pass up.
Comparison:
Apple MacBook Pro:
Display: 15.4" Widescreen 1440x900
Video card: ATI x1600 128MB
Processor: Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz
RAM: 1GB (2x512MB) DDR2 667MHz
HDD: 100GB 7200RPM (7200RPM is very important to me, I don't care about size)
NIC: built-in 802.11G, Bluetooth 2.0, and 10/100/1000 NIC
DVD: DVD +/- RW with slot load
Cost: $2300
Dell E1505 during 20% off sale, with free 1GB RAM upgrade, with $450 coupon on machines over $1499:
Display: 15.4" Widescreen 1280x800 with True-Life option
Video Card: ATI x1400 256MB (closest I could get to the x1600)
Processor: Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz
RAM: 1GB (2x512MB) DDR2 533MHz (667 not an option)
HDD: 60GB 7200RPM (as stated, I care about drive speed more than space)
NIC: built-in 802.11G, Bluetooth 2.0, 10/100 NIC, and v.92 modem
DVD: DVD +/- RW with dual-layer burner
Cost: $1065 after coupon, free shipping.
The latter machine is sitting on my desk right now. The display is by far the best I've ever seen.
Here's what I miss with the Dell:
Slightly lower-resolution display - the True-Life option on the Dell MORE than makes up for this. Puts my $600 desktop 2001FP to shame.
Significantly slower videocard - I have to turn off specular mapping to play Oblivion at 25FPS on the Dell. This hurts.
Slightly slower RAM - I don't care.
Less HDD space - I run a tight ship and have never used over 30GB in my life. Could care less.
No Gigabit option for the NIC - I don't use Gigabit at home.
The DVD doesn't slot-load - vanity points only, but I care a little bit.
No backlit keyboard - vanity points again, I care a little bit.
Can't run OSX legally - this is huge, thank God I'm really really competent at optimizing and securing the hell out of XP.
Here's what I miss with the Apple:
The amazing Samsung display - this is huge.
The 256MB RAM on the video card - this will be significant for BF2 at LAN parties.
The modem - I don't care. Might come in handy once, ever.
No dual-layer burning on the DVD - this is a big deal, as the reason I use so little HDD space is because I put media files on DVDs.
All told, I'd probably prefer the Apple *if* I could jump to $2800 and get the 2GHz model with the ATI x1600 256MB.
Meanwhile I've paid 46% of what I would've paid for a near-equivalent machine.
--Ryvar
In other news: Monkeys could fly out of my butt. Film at 11.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
I should mention, I still intend to get a MacBook Pro later on this year around Xmas. But for $1065 there was just no fucking reason I could not buy the Dell, which will go to my wife as her gaming doesn't go beyond AOE3 in performance reqs.
--Ryvar
Dell's new pricing (just released today) phoned a nigger in downtown Boston, who flew into Florida on the next available flight. He then left the terminal, yanked some jibbering chink from his Honda, and drove to my house, where he fucked my wife in the ass and blew his wad all over her face. She later died.
Macs are more expensive than this? A computer with an automatic nigger? Ho, I think NOT.
MCE -IS- XP Pro for goddsake! The only thing it lacks is the ability to join an Active Directory domain. Other than that, MCE -IS- XP Pro (It needs to be, they need Fast User Switching for the Media Center Extender functionality). It also gives you the 10' Interface the same as Frontrow.
http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/cultofmac/index.blog? entry_id=1457845
Apple has cool products, but I don't know why anyone would trust them any more than other corporate giants, with their teams of aggressive lawyers frothing at the mouth for any chance to litigate.
Sure, mass numbers of Windows users MIGHT defect to the Macintosh and OS X. They might also just defect to Linux, which runs on the hardware they already have. That seems more likely to me. Realistically, though, Windows users aren't about to move to the Mac in any great numbers. There are lots of reasons.
Already here in the comments, Mac users have boasted about Macs giving you more for the money. Shortly after the MacBook Pro was announced, I published this article showing that the Apple laptop offered little or nothing over a comparable Dell, HP, or Acer laptop. Then a bit later on, I wrote another. Again, Apple has little to offer. I'm not the only one who thinks so.
As for resale value, it's no surprise that a Mac retains more of its value. Faced with paying $2,500 for a new Macintosh with marginal speed improvements over the previous generation unit decked out for $1,800 I would imagine many users on tight budgets would opt for the older unit. Or they might look at a brand new Dell machine running Windows for $600-1000. As noted by other writers here, if Apple had to compete with some other brand on equivalent Mac hardware, their resale prices would change accordingly.
Performance is important to many computer users, especially most Windows users I know. This is one thing that will keep the masses from moving to the Macintosh. OS X can't outperform Linux on the same hardware, doing the same tasks with the same software. OS X can't outperform Windows on the same or comparable hardware. OS X has lots of little hidden performance problems just waiting to be found.
Consistency is also important to many computer users. It's not uncommon for a major Service Pack for Windows to break something, but it rarely breaks anything major. It is, however, extremely common for even minor updates to Apple technology to break things. Just this week I found that the OS X 10.4.6 update broke a script we've used at login to set up home directories for network authenticated users. The same update on Intel-based iMacs broke the same script in a different way. I spent hours troubleshooting that, all for a minor update of dubious value. It took a slight change to how I installed the script and one command change to one line of the script, but finding those needed changes wasn't easy. This isn't the first time OS X has done this to me in the past year. Windows hasn't done this to me since Service Pack 2, and a quick update to the affected software fixed the only compatibility problem I had in seconds... not hours.
Gaming is important to many computer users. Most new commercial games are released on Windows first, and later (if ever) to the Macintosh. Now that Apple has offered "Boot Camp" as an option, it has been suggested that Mac-specific gaming might be dead soon. Why create a Mac-compatible game when you can release just a Windows version and tell Mac users to run that on their Intel-based Mac? Sure, you'll always have little Mac boutique companies putting out Mac-only or Mac-first games, but the Electronic Arts' of the world likely drop any Mac support quickly.
Build quality is also important. Where I work, we get hundreds of new Dells in per year and a handful of new Macs. In 2005, we got in 6 Macs. 3 of them were dead out of the box. 1 had to be taken completely apart and replaced piece by piece for the tech to figure out that the power cable had been crushed into the motherboard at the factory, shorting out the system and preventing it from booting. In about 400 Dell systems (desktops and laptops) we received
Price those 2 nearly equal computers all loaded up with the 2.16 ghz Dual Core, 2 gigs RAM, 7200 rpm HD, etc. and they both come out to $3400-$3500... The big exceptions in a MacBook Pro & Dell M90 is that only one of them is shipping (last I checked) & only one has supperior OS and ease of use-integration with built-in programs, and lack of need for an IT pro to take care of it.
Microsoft was convicted of using their legally recognized monopoly in x86 desktop operating systems to leverage themselves into the browser market, mainly by tying Internet Explorer to the OS in such a way that (in their words) the browser was "part of the OS" and could not be removed easily.
That's a far cry from simply including a browser with their OS (as IBM did with OS/2, and as Linux distributors, Apple, etc. do today) even if Microsoft wasn't a monopolist.
(I personally thought the whole thing was ridiculous at the time).
Then it seems you weren't paying attention.
No doubt Microsoft did some coercion (though it wasn't illegal), but that's not why Microsoft won. Microsoft won because they were COMPATIBLE. Pure and simple. Windows 3.1 killed all the competition at the time because it was the most compatible with DOS. Windows 95 killed everything because it was STILL the most compatible with DOS and Windows 3.1.
Nonsense. OS/2 was able to run multiple versions of real DOS images concurrently in VDMs while also juggling multiple instances of its WinOS2 subsystem, and you could also Dual Boot to a real DOS installation those very few occasions where a program used VCPI or some other low-level tricks (e.g., Norton Utilities) which the VDM couldn't emulate.
The Dual Boot mode OS/2 supported (which is a distinctly different thing from the multiboot configuragion using IBM's Boot Manager which most people used) was almost identical to Windows 95's Restart In DOS option, something it also needed to run certain DOS packages.
Look at OS/2. IBM, with every computer they sold, included OS/2 as the default operating system and also Windows 3.1.
No they didn't. IBM PSP (Personal Software Products, the group in Boca Raton and later Austin that was developing OS/2 at IBM) certainly wanted that to happen, but the PCCO (IBM PC Company) simply wouldn't allow it. That was a great source of bad feelings inside IBM, and the lack of OS/2 preloads even at IBM was one of the reasons that OS/2 had a hard time catching on -- people had to install it themselves, or purchase it from one a few vendors (anyone else remember Indelible Blue?) that preloaded OS/2 on their systems.
People had to go out of their way to delete OS/2 and use Windows 3.1 instead.
No, they didn't. IBM did not preload OS/2 as a general rule, though some IBM hardware (like their IntelliStation line) was formally certified to work with OS/2, and it may have been available for short periods of time upon special request. OS/2 was never a default preload on IBM systems, at least that I'm aware of. Many of us would have purchased a lot more IBM hardware otherwise. :-)
You know why? Because OS/2 was INCOMPATIBLE with a hell of a lot of software and drivers.
Actually, incompatibilty was rarely an issue until Microsoft started creating a constantly-shifting API for Windows 3.1 -- see below.
The "WinOS2" subsystem included with OS/2 2.0 was a recompiled version of Windows 3.0 that IBM obtained from Microsoft, and the one from 2.1 and later was a recompiled version of Windows 3.1. WinOS2 was not an emulation, and it was not an API translator -- it was the real deal. The code was altered to work as a DPMI client under an OS/2 VDM and compiled using an optimizing compiler (Watcom C, I think), and a few bugs (like the infamous calculator bug) were fixed, but it was otherwise untouched, and it was almost 100% compatible with Windows 3.0 and 3.1.
The only real incompatibilities started appearing when Microsoft started releasing 32-bit extensions to Windows 3.1 called WIN32S.DLL every few months (and of course using them heavily in the new versions oftheir own products), but IBM kept up support for those additional APIs until Win32S 1.25a or so when Microsoft actually altered the upper level of the Win32s address space from 512MB to 2GB
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
It worked so well the first time, why not go with it again?
Also, this could be to commemorate Slashdotville's sister city, Dublin.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
"I'm a big Mac user"
Maybe if you used fewer big Macs you'd be a smaller Mac user?
I switched two people over last week, my system admin over three weeks ago, and my ex girlfriend last year. People, once they've used a Mac, they won't go back.
...because I just quit MS to work at Sony (PS2,PSP & PS3 games)
I hate MS, as a consumer, and as an employee. The only thing I hate more that their products is how they build their products.
Yes, micro$oft could lose enough customers to matter. We could find out that there are huge busted nymphomaniac aliens on venus too.
Hell, I could even be writing this post without the benifit of a computer.
All of those three things have one thing in common. It's unlikely to happen. People run windows because everyone runs windows, and they want to usethe same programs as the office, or that office, or their lawyers, or....
I'll call bullshit here. I work as a video editor and producer for a TV station, and unfortunately, we're all forced to use PCs. The production staff has been screeming at the engineering staff (who build the computers to the specs THEY want, even though we're doing the work) to get us Macs for a while now, but they're a couple of Apple-aphobes / Microsoft-phyles, who won't even let us run Firefox. We're running Adobe Premiere Pro, one of the only (if not THE only) usable video editting programs on Windows. Now, I'm a big Adobe fan, I like their interface design, almost as much as Apple's, but I have to say, Premiere is NO FinalCut. The basic fact that it works in AVIs causes a huge amount of headache. The most agreduious problem is that AVIs do not support Line 21 ("Closed Captioning" for you lay-people). It is now ILLEGAL to run programing without closed captioning. So while Premiere might work fine for making commercials (which are not required to have CC), for piecing together a news broadcast, it's unusable. Actually, we DO use it for that, but it requires that someone sit there at the teleprompter and scroll in the CC manually, while the tape is running... how idiotic is that! The MPEGs that Final Cut uses, however, retain their line-21 data, and I've also heard (but not had the oportunity to try it) that Final Cut can actually edit closed captioning. If you consider that we piece together two of our four news broadcasts that run each day, on the computer, and considering that the person who scrolls the prompter is probably payed something like $25-$30/h, an hour out of his day is spent doing bullshit. That's $25-$30 a day! In three months, we'd make back the entire price of a new high-end Mac.
That's only one of the many problems with using Windows for video editing. My newly-built PC crashes at least 2-5 times a week while I'm doing video editing, which wastes quite a bit of my time. My Mac laptop has maybe crashed that many times in its 3 year lifetime, and I've actually done much more processor intensive stuff with it (and yes, I've also run Final Cut on it). Final Cut is just a much more robust video editing program for professionals than either Adobe, or the "quickly becoming obsolete" Avid options.
So sure, for amature video editing... ya know, putting together Anime Music Videos or whatever you like to do, Windows works just fine, hell, Windows Movie Maker will be enough for most hobbiests (although I'd chose iMovie over WMM any day... hell there's some things iMovie can do better than Premiere!) but for real work, give me a Mac and spare me the grief :(
The one thing I will agree with you on, though, is screen realestate. All the video production bays have two monitors, and I can't really imagine doing my work without them. But seriously, you were talking about laptops, which is irrelivent, because no professional video editor, in their right mind, would use a laptop for his video work, so your point is not very valid.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
I love reading the Mac vs. PC debate in all it's incantations. It's like arguing religion or politics mostly.
But I take great issue with the constant comparison, in this thread, of Dell vs. Apple. I love the Dell monitors but it stops there. Dell computers are OK but I don't think for the money that they are very good. That said, for desktops, if I don't build it myself it's not on my desk. Whatever Dell/HP/Gateway/Sony, etc. builds I can do better for cheaper.
As for Apple notebooks. They are definitely the gold standard (didn't they basically invent the form factor?). I admit that and I am NOT an Apple fan. (PC, XP, iRiver)
But my notebook is an Acer TM800LCi (#3 nothebook manuf. worldwide). It's thin, light, and powerful. It's also three years old. But it is still as rock solid as it was the day I bought it. Google Earth (beta) crashed it once. That's the only time I've ever had a crash, and I abuse my stuff. On the original XP Pro install no less. I've seen three friends with Powerbooks have to send theirs in for repairs. 0 repairs on mine. Small sample size for sure but based on that my Acer is infinitely more stable than those Powerbooks (wink). I just wish it had DVI. My 2005FPW deserves it.
When I first learned that OSX was built on BSD Unix I told all my friends (the geeky ones who would care at least) that this will wind up with OSX on PCs. Then came OSx86 (which I haven't tried yet because I only have AMD CPUs and I don't think OSx86 supports them yet??). Well I really think it won't be long before OSX is sold, legally, for the PC market. I've read the debates about that elsewhere but I think it is going to happen.
I've played with OSX sereral times and just like Anand (anandtech.com) had said, he liked it a lot for many reasons but he still likes XP for many reasons. I feel the same way, though you will never see me on one of those "switch" commercials. I would really like to see OSX on the PC for real. It would force MS to do a better job and force them to recognize one thing they have long been fighting - competition is good!
Gee, I might say that because MS's user base absolutely dwarfs all others combined in the consumer market.
I just stopped reading your whole message there, as just because a lot of people use it does not nessecarily mean they LIKE using it - they just put up with it because there is no other way forward.
Everyone has a phone, but who actually LIKES the phone company? Microsoft has been the phone company of computers, it's as simple as that. I hear nine year olds and grandmothers on the tsreet complaining about Microsoft. It's not like it's just IT folk, who at least know how to get rid of spyware without a visit to the Geek Squad.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Here's my answer to your argument.
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
Which report from the Forrester Group says this? The article only mentions "a report" and "the report". I looked on the Forrester Grop website and wasn't able to turn up any reports about brand identity since 2004.
So this is just total garbage. I want to see the report.
I'm a 2000 man.
Consumers are so distrustful of Microsoft that Apple could double its market share due to defections from the Windows operating system
So that would mean about 6% in a best case scenario? Maybe Joe Consumer will start to hear about an operating system not produced by a money hungry corporation, but by people wanting an alternative and choose that instead.......
Consumers are so distrustful of Microsoft that Apple could (Sadly I reckon they will stick with the easy option of Windows though).
Pay attention to the fact that Apple didn't invent podcasting, they just integrated it better into iTunes. They didn't get video on a color iPod screen first, they just rewrote the firmware to do what iPodLinux had shown proofs of concept. Boot Camp follows the $13K prize winner. Final Cut Studio and iDVD were ports of acquired Windows apps.
Apple is substantially shrewder about timing and the zeitgeist than Microsoft or any other computer company. They aren't innovators so much as they the most efficient in the product-to-market process and quickly refining a product. This can't be overstated.
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
"Dell = No Bluetooth, No DVD Burner, No Gigabit Ethernet, 20GB less HD space, No built in webcam & much worse graphics."
That's not a $1,300 difference.
OK, here's some more downsides of the Dell:
- no DVI (much less Dual-link DVI, which you can use on their 30" LCD)
- no remote
- no MagSafe power connector
- no optical/digital audio in/out
- no microphone
- no developer tools (Windows dev tools aren't free, IIRC)
- no GarageBand, or other iLife apps
- no keyboard backlight, or scrolling trackpad
- heavier and thicker
- less memory (when you consider the GMA950 uses system RAM)
- lower resolution display
Shall we continue? These computers have the same CPU, but that's about it. They're not in the same league.
You can't really say whether it's worth $1300 more, because some of these features you can't get on a Dell at any price. And not just the nifty-sounding ones like a keyboard backlight. Does *any* Dell laptop have optical digital audio input and output?
Windows Vista's release date slips by a few weeks and now it's duke nukem forever.
It's only a few weeks guys. I do not mind it at all. Think of it this way, at least they will
get it right with Security and Stability and that is what everyone wants. Don't you want a quality
OS more so than what is out there right now?
I must agree with the above post. Few are going to spend $2000 for an Apple when they can get almost the same spec laptop for 60% of the price.
Besides, people have been pissed at Microsoft's lack of quality software since the company's first offerings pre-PC. Few have actually switched to Apple. Most accept the limitations of the PC and do other things with their life.
Apple's advertisments alienate as many people as Microsoft's mediocre software. I can't imagine myself or any of my friends contributing to Steven Jobs' bank account.
I JUST bought one not 3 hours ago due to my impatience with MS... that is the last time I see that damn error message...
Are you absentminded?
Some of the comments here infer that there's inherent value in the "asthetics" of a computer, and that's one of the reasons why Macs cost more. Here some facts: If you are a person who builds your own computer, you don't give a flying fork about asthetics, except maybe how many flashing LEDs and other jee-jahs can be crammed into/onto it.
Mac users tend to be minimalists; PC users tend to be maximalists. And that applies to both hardware and software.
Back in the day, when Apple was one bad day from becoming a memory, MacWorld had a glowing-postive view of the future.
They were right. Just look at where Apple is today.
I bought Apple stock back then and now with super gains all my future Macs are already paid for.
Any program is guaranteed eventually to halt on Windows!
Depends, If you "reset" the clock with the correct time once a day, then despite being annoying, it it still a better solution than the dead one.
Welcome to the Windows world, btw.
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
with posts like that linux will never go anywhere. try to understand that anything more complicated then click on the icon is un acceptable, unless your program does soemthing really special...
maybe I am biased cause i am more used to wintel then apple, but everytime i look at my wifes mac laptop, i think poorly built, and sofware that is not any better then windows...actually, i think windows 2000 is better then mac osx...
but the real serious point is that mac hardware is not better, weighing all the pros and cons.
word
8 and even then I know people who say it doesn't run well. So after four years they can't get their software to run on the platform that a substantial percentage of their customers use. Why? Then you get a statement like this:
Also, I'm a biological scientist. A very common piece of software we use is a suite called Vector NTI. There has long been a Mac version (not sure which platform was first supported). 30% of those in my field are Mac users, maybe more. When OSX came out NTI wouldn't run on it. Now, it will only run well on Jaguar and nothing newer, and that's just a recent development http://www.invitrogen.com/content.cfm?pageid=1136
"Mac OS X's UNIX-based architecture provides the power and stability for working with vast amounts of data for scientific research. Vector NTI® Suite is a tremendous addition to the growing number of life science applications on Mac OS X." Ron Okamoto Apple's Vice President of Worldwide Developer Relations
NTI has never run on Unix. It hardly runs on OSX. That's a misleading statement. I grew up on Macs. I expect better than this from them, or should I? I just scratch my head at the Mac is better mantra. Better at nothing I've seen to justify a switch (except Expose - that's awesome), just different (and prettier for sure).
Five million subscribers play World of Warcraft... and it runs just fine on OSX.
I thought we here at slashdot were 1337 enough to build out own computers and pirate the OSs. So why are we comparing a mac to a dell anyway? Oh ya, and you can install OS X on a windows box making any software arguments irrelevant.
~= scwizard =~
Of course you can DIY cheaper than Apple, but that's no different than any other OEM.
That settles it then...
... and Sony earn the highest marks
The final tally saw Bose, Dell,
I am now convinced that the World mostly falls into one or both of the following categories:
1) Ignorant
2) Stupid
I see lots of comments that look like: "Apples are only $400 more than Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway...but it is worth it."
To a one-off buyer, that might not be a significant amount of money, but when the president of my company tells me to buy 300 machines I will not be the one to recommend Apple. Do the math - the difference in price will be $120,000. I don't care who you are - that's real money.
That's why Dell gets our business - and their servers/SANs are nice too.
-ted
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But yesterday, I had the great surprise to see my sister sitting at her computer, she had just played with Mac OS X a little and she just told me she wished to use Mac OS X as her main OS, to put eMule on Mac OS X and that she'd boot into Windows only to play games. I mean come on, she played with it for barely 1 hour, there's pretty much nothing installed, the monitor refresh rate is stuck at 60 Hz and after years of use of Windows she wants to give it up so quick for an OS she has played with for a real short time?
That was definitly surprising, I think it only illustrates how seductive a Macintosh can be, and now that you can boot Windows in it, it's only making it safer to buy a Macintosh without wondering if you're doing the right choice. The only problem I see is that people would need to mess around with Mac OS X for at least a little while before being seduced, but damn, if they can be convinced as fast as my 16-year old sister and feel safe about buying a Mac over a PC, Apple's market share is ready to double.
You just got troll'd!
"I know of many people switching from Windows to MAC for video editing and graphics simply because the software on the windows side is utter garbage compared to the apple offering, and the regular consumer is starting to see that."
Aren't most of the apps for those purposes the same? But Windows probably got more of them, and the hardware is cheaper and perform better.
"When you get high end hardware with high end software and couple it with a system that you do not haveto hire a company every 2 months to clean it out you get the general public looking at it very closely. The mac-Mini entices them further as it's cheap and will use their monitor. (Actually a Dual G5 tower will use their PC monitors, just the FUD surrounding the apple products leads them to think otherwise.)"
Two letters: BS
"Also faced with dropping $300.00 for Vista and the requirement to double ram, speed,etc... people will really look at apple closer as their current system ages."
Yeah, because it's much better to pay $120 or whatever for each "upgrade" of MacOS X? All the time?
Also MacOS X uses a lot of resources, and you pay a premium for the hardware. So this doesn't make sense either.
"Other than games or wierd business apps from the vertical market, there is no real reason to not switch to a more stable, secure and user friendly platform like OSX."
Except that I do belive I would like MacOS X more than Windows there are no reason to switch either. Windows is stable, and what says MacOS X would be much more secure? User friendly depends on what you like I guess, the GUI are probably less retarded on MacOS, but the lack of some apps and the fact that it's "different" will make many people think it's harder to use.
And how many haven't commented on the "moped" sound of the iMac G5s? Of the slow firewire performance of many macs? ("Unbalanced" performance overall.)
But sure, a mac with a price 3 times higher than a comparable home built system might have a better finish when what you put together yourself. But it came at a price.
Programs available for DEBIAN Sarge are simple to install and are GUARANTEED to run on all PCs without any special user knowledge about specific flavors or configuration settings needed.
REPOSITORY... A place to download software, organized by specific distribution. The repository will also contain any other software/libraries that the software being downloaded will need. These Dependencies are managed by APT
STABLE... Currently Debian Sarge. The Repository for this distribution of Debian contains software that has been extensivly tested, and determined stable.
SYNAPTIC... A graphical front-end to Apt-Get. It contains a menu of programs sorted by catagory, and you can also search for programs by name, or keywords.
In summary.. (too late) If you want something Guarenteed to work, the Debian repository system is hard to beat.. If I get it there, I know it's been tested, and I know where it came from. and I know that it won't contain any hidden spyware/adware crap.. But mostly I know it will work.
Not bashing OSX btw.
Computer compatability of Linux is comparable to Windows, pretty much any PC you can install Windows on, you can install Linux on.
As to application software, there have been some vendors who made Linux versions of their games.. but I get your inference.. the answer is that yes there can be binaries that run on ANY flavor of Linux, and there ARE... However, are there binaries that don't run on every flavor ? yes there are.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
Man, f***ing impressive... I was blown away.
Thousands of words have been written about the upcoming Vista OS suckiness, lack of significant innovations, MacOSX features copied and so on. The clear view offered by this video really conveys what words can't do in any way. Geez, we have been doing this in MacOSX for years.
I will show this to my Windows-using friends... Ah, the power of images.
I have grown to hate windows and last week was the end of it... I am tried of having to reinstall windows every few months... I have started to down load Suse 10 so I can use on this PC and with my income tax I am switching to apples OS X and not becasue you can now use windows on an apple... I am tied of all the problems and viruses and updates every few days that seem to make new holes and weakness in the kernal... And now with Vista on the horizon I feel it is time to get out now before I buy another windows OS that will have 6 different versions... I am just kicking myself why I did not do it sooner...
"The Only Way Evil Men Can Succeed, Is if Good Men Stand By and do Nothing"
It sucks almost as bad on Linux as it does on Windows. Except that you're not adding the 'suck factor' of Java to Windows, so your 'net suckage' is less, of course.
Seriously; I'm using it to run a Freenet node and the JVM sucks up 128MB of RAM, this is to run a headless P2P program which doesn't have any open windows/GUI/widgets/etc. It's kind of a pain to install also, you have to download some weird BIN file from Sun, turn it into a Debian package with fakeroot, and then install it (alternately you could let Sun's BIN file run on your system, but damned if I'm going to do that). You can't just grab it from the repositories.
Mac OS X's Java is still a bit of a RAM hog, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as it is on Linux or Windows. I think you're right, there definitely has to be some optimization on Apple's part.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Come on, I'm a mac user and I wouldn't compare the Mini's price to a Dell. Add a mouse, keyboard and monitor and you're up to $750 or so - for that money, you could get two entry-level Dells. Personally, I'd rather have the Mini, but that was the OP's point.