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iPods Come Complete With Windows Virus
kaufmanmoore writes "Cnet is reporting that some video Ipods made after September 12th have the RavMonE virus loaded onto it. In Apple's announcement they take a swipe at Windows security and encourage Windows users to install anti virus applications."
Was is outsourced at McDonald's?
Apple's products are made (and to some degree, designed) in China just like everybody else's. I wonder how many other memory products (that is, USB mass storage devices) have similar issues.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Now I come to think about the PC guy in the Mac commercials who whines about viruses on Windows systems. Steve Jobs is so keen on pointing out that Mac is free from viruses (and Windows is not), but this blunder has got to shut him up about that for a while.
Full Tilt
..."reasons why this cannot be anyone's fault at Apple" responses from the fanboys...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Apple is selling ipods with a virus on them and they're taking it as an opportunity to bash Microsoft??
I'm sorry, but that just seems ass backwards to me. This one is not Microsoft's fault, and I hope people realize that.
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
I'm not one to try and defend Windows security with a straight face, but this is apples fault for shipping infected ipods. They failed to protect their customers, regardless of windows lack-lustre security
5468652047616D65
If I just distributed a device with a virus on it I would not be throwing stones at the security practices of another company.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Wow...trying to deflect some of the blame, huh?
-Hey! Whatcha lookin' at fool? -The Duk
Apparently, the Apple QC guys were too busy gaming to run a virus scan.
Could this have been on purpose? No, but a what a great way to get people to switch to Macs.
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
what exactly is an "Ipod"? I don't think I've ever heard of that..
(turn off your MS Word auto-correction, damnit!!)
and this is why in the long run, apple wins? Simply because MS can't do anything like this back to Apple.
those apple people are genius'
The class of Apple to complain about Windows being susceptible to viruses that Apple Quality Control fails to catch. Maybe Apple QC should install AV as well when they develop for windows?
The conspiracy theorist in me suggests that this was not "accidental" and is simply Apple's way of grandstanding on the topic of Windows security.
While I realize this was just an accident, there are probably conspiracy theorist wack jobs out there that are formulating a hypothesis that the second gunman in the grassy knoll was programed to kill JFK through a virus implanted on his iPod that induces hypnontic suggestion and time travel.
I personally think companies should be liable if they release a product with a virus on it. Virus are so common these days that you'd think one of the final checks on any device with a FS is a virus scan.
At least Microsoft doesn't laugh in your face when your computer gets infected with Virii from their products. They, you know, feel sorry for you and all that stuff.
I expect to enjoy the videoshop of the Apple commercial where the PC user falls sick with a cold to be replaced with a PC user vs. an iPod shortly...
Seems rather cheap of Apple to use their blunder as an 'opportunity' to throw stones at Microsoft. Their quote was "As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it."
... but then, I've been accused of being a conspiracy theorist before.
Wouldn't someone at Apple have at least run a quick MS virus scan for a device that is intended for use by PCs as well? I wouldn't be surprised if an engineer or two 'overlooked' the virus before shipping
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
"it was traced to a particular Windows machine in the manufacturing lines of a contract manufacturer " and "Very few units actually went through that particular station"
Why is a Windows machine ever connected to an iPod during manufacturing? I'd think for a high volume product like the iPod, there would be dedicated disk duplicators to format/populate the drives, and testing would likewise be done with purpose-designed hardware. Using a Windows PC to do either seems like a crude, inefficient way to do things.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.
I own an iBook. The Apple IIe was my first computer (unless you count a breadboard, some dip switches, and two numeric LED displays). I own Apple stock. I think Mac OS X is the bees knees.
That said, Apple needs to take their collective heads out of their asses. If an executable shell script was "accidentally" included as simple as:
#!/bin/sh
rm -rf /
You need to make it autorun (I won't tell you how, but it can be done, and is quite handy for non-malicious uses). No antivirus software would detect this, no Windows machines would be affected, and every Mac you plugged that iPod into would be royally fucked, even if not run as root.
Karma: Incomprehensible (Mostly affected by posting at +5, reading at -1, and metamoderating everything unfair.)
...anti-Apple hateboys taking preemptive strikes at Apple apologists that haven't even spoken up yet. Welcome to another fun-filled Apple thread at Slashdot.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
(emphasis added)
It's nice that they're "upset with themselves for not catching it" in the last part of that statement, but what's that first part in bold all about? Oh yeah, it's the part where they shirk complete responsibility for this by half-blaming Microsoft for the virus Apple introduced in its own hardware. It's the most half-assed way of apologizing imaginable.
In other news, rapists who blame their victims will now be in charge of issuing Apple's PR statements on their website.
Sorry, as much as it would be fun to bash Apple about this, and they do deserve more than a bit of bashing, the fundimental problem is that Windows has the security of a screen door. If Windows was 1/10 as secure as Mac OS/X, FreeBSD, and yes, even Linux, this sort of mischief would go unnoticed.
I'm amazed that Apple doesn't have more of a hand in the manufacturing of iPods, even by third party vendors. I'd think they'd provide Macs for them to use for whatever steps require home computers (of the type that might be susceptible to viruses), rather than let them use Windows machines. If only for the reason that Macs are less likely to transmit HIV (Hidden iPod Visuses) to their customers.
"Even pirates like chocolate chip cookies." www.youtube.com/musecast5
What I find interesting is the potential for this type of distribution to be the vector for a zero-day exploit.
Imagine the scenario: an unscrupulous individual happens across an unannounced vulnerability, and develops an exploit. Rather than building it into a worm/botnet replication mechanism, he finds a way to load it onto a consumer electronics device (mp3 player, flash drive, camera, etc) and lets the well-established merchandise distribution network take it from there. Weeks/months later, at a predetermined time, an attack can be launched simultaneously from hundreds/thousands of locations, and we have a nasty problem on our hands.
An object at rest cannot be stopped!
Cue the wavy-dream-sequence-announcing-television animation....
Somehow, in an economic fluke, the Apple II flourishes and paves the way for a GUI operating system code-named..OS I. Incredibly, as years go by, Microsoft remains a niche player in the market, known mostly for its creative pieces of software, and Apple owns 98% of the desktop scene.
Even more incredible is how much smarter the Apple devs are than any alternate universe where, say, Microsoft would be in their position, and despite the efforts of all the l33t haxxors out there, Apple's products, now up to OS X, remain completely virus free. Who'd a thunk it?
I'd like to see Apple own even 75% of the market share and not have major issues with viruses and those who write them. It is easy to sit back and take pot shots at the leader when you are a very distant, distant second place runner in the game. If only those devs at Apple had been smart enough to create something better than Windoze back in the early 90's, they might find themselves in a similar situation.
Bad form, Apple, or should we change your name to Sour Grapes?
That's like MacDonald's importing meat infected with Mad Cow Diease, then blaming the FDA for not catching it.
So Apple tells us that Wiindows isn't safe enough for basic home users to run, but they use it on a computer that's responsible for mass producing their products? You can't be serious.
iPods Come Complete With Windows Virus
It's not an outsourcing problem, because a lot of people are also reporting this "Windows" virus showing up on their mac when they run the BootCamp installer.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
The last line in their official announcement takes the swipe, and I agree it's wholly inappropriate when this is their fault.
"As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it." http://www.apple.com/support/windowsvirus/
DRM = Digitally Restricted Media. This is a viral sig, pass it on.
*Guy 1 sends letter with anthrax*
*Guy 2 opens said letter*
Guy 2: Oh no! Now I have anthrax!
Guy 1: HAHA IF U WERE A ROBOT THIS WULDNT HAPPEN. UR LAME.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
I'm expecting an extremely verbose and repetitive post from daveschroeder about how this is everyone but apple's fault because apple never does anything that isn't 100% perfect. Don't dissapoint me Daveyboy.
.... ... }
int main (void) {
Wow, hes taking a shot at windows security? Microsoft may have released some pretty insecure code in the past, but it looks like Apple is the first to actually ship a product with a virus preinstalled.
Pure and simple hypocricy if they keep running those "We are more secure than Windows" commercials.
--
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Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Apple's official response
Ludwig Wittgenstein
if it made sense. The article specifically stated, and I quoted: "Very few units actually went through that particular station"
If the virus were on a PC used to make a master image, one would expect very many units to be affected.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Even apple needs windows to make their products. Appearently they are using windows machines to image their ipod OS. L O (freaking) L!!!!
"Joswiak said it was traced to a particular Windows machine in the manufacturing lines of a contract manufacturer that builds the iPods for Apple. The company declined to name the maker. "
Seriosuly, what a bunch of crap they are not taking full responsibility. This is MS's fault.
""As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it," Apple said on its site. "
If apple are going to make products for use with windows, then it is their responsibility to ensure that those products don't contain virii for windows systems. Suggesting that the virus being present in their product that they're shipping (regardless of the susceptibility of Windows to that virus) is the fault of Microsoft is passing the buck in a most horrible way.
The simple fact is that they choose to make their device work with Microsoft Windows systems, and they are damned sure responsible for ensuring that their device will not cause problems with those systems, regardless of the flaws or vulnerabilities of Microsoft systems.
I quite like Mac hardware and software, and have previously been glad that they may be gaining market share, but frankly if they are going to continue to market themselves by making stabs at Microsoft (and no I'm not suggesting the virus was placed intentionally), rather than by marketing their products' strengths and features, I'm not so sure I will continue to feel the same way.
The FDA is reporting that some of Apple's produce shipped after September 12th as having the E. coli bacteria. In Apple's announcement they take a swipe at Intelligent Design, "As you might imagine, we are upset at God for not making human beings more hardy against such bacteria and viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it."
If I run into a customer who gets this virus from their new iPod, I look forward to making $75 per hour as an expert witness when they sue Apple.
In Apple's announcement they take a swipe at Windows security
that's like me injecting somebody with HIV, then when they die say it's their fault for having an immune system that couldnt beat it
fucking polo necked retards
Especially not when you live here...
Wow, already the Apple/Microsoft bashing has begun. Seems like the real culprit here is the subcontractor, after all, they do have some responsibility to keep the computers on their assembly line free from virus'.....
We should punish the criminals who committed the crime but not cops who were not able to catch it.
Who is the criminal here?
Will the virus reinfect the Windows PC each & every time the IPod is connected
to the PC?
i.e. if the first time I connect the IPod to the PC, I get infected & then I clean
the PC with some antivirus - is that good enough? Or will that happen everytime?
Ipod users should switch to Zune when it comes out, less virus's.
iPods Come Complete With Windows Vista
So now you can get a free McVirus when you buy an iPod or a Big Mac Menu?
As article mentioned, both come from Asia, due to an infected assembly machine running Windows (probably the one that formats the keepers of the data)
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
It doesn't sound so difficult to get it right.
It's here: http://malfy.org/
Covering for one's incompetence by blaming the competition is a way of life in business. It's just that in this particular case this widely-accepted practice is likely to backfire. Apple's attempt to blame its lack of quality control and questionable production practices on Microsoft is as hollow as it is ridiculous. I never owned an Apple computer or any other Apple gadgets. They do look nice at the local Microcenter, though. My poor student days are a distant past now, so the issue here is not the cost of Apple toys. I know Apple enjoys a near-religious following from its user base. I see no objective, technical reasons for that. I find Apple users glorifying their overpriced hardware more disturbing then Scientology nuts knocking on my door at ten o'clock at night. It seems that this kind of insanity permeated to the very top of Apple's corporate structure, causing the kind of imbecilic damage control efforts we see today.
Even ignoring the fact that farmers are directly responsible, it' still insane to blame the FDA. Agencies like the FDA are used as a fail safe - the final safety net to catch problems. The farm that breeds the cows could easily test for illnesses and disease. The slaughter houses or manufacturing plant can catch diseases. McDonald's being the multi-billion corporation that is could easily have the meat inspected when it arrives in the country. The meat passes through all these checkpoints, giving companies like McDonald's several opportunities to catch the problem. Instead, you chose to blame an agency that's responsible for millions of tasks and millions of companies. I really don't see the logic there.
Did anyone else read the headline as a Ramone virus and imagine some kind of virus that either deletes all iTunes songs by The Ramones (eep) or brings up a BSOD reading
I wanna be sedated
I wanna be sedated
I wanna be sedated
I wanna be sedated
I wanna be sedated
I wanna be sedated
I wanna be sedated.................
Every time you launch iTunes
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
Isn't this virtually the same thing as what we'd call an asymptomatic virus carrier in biology? If so, it furthers the notion of computers as an analogy for biological systems and vice-versa.
It's utterly inexcusable for Apple to take potshots at Microsoft when Apple is the one who is completely at fault.
And regardless of who's fault it is that Windows isn't secure, the question is who's in charge of IT at this factory? Is it normal to allow foreign machines on a production network? I hope not. So how did this virus even get on the network?
And if Windows isn't secure, then why is Apple using equipment that runs Windows. The last time I checked, they have a fairly decent OS of their own.
And one last thing, if all that you are doing is uploading an image to flash, then a frickin Sinclair would do the trick. Apple need not rely on Microsoft products at all.
Apple is coming off as not giving two shits about spreading a virus to their competitors equipment, and that's just wrong.
And before I get called a Windows whoreboy, I'd like it be known that in actuality I'm a linux whoreboy. I just wanted to clear that up.
Mistakes happen in commercial software, everyone knows that. I think what galls people on here isnt the mistake so much as it is their attempt to blame it on Microsoft.
You know that guy who screws something up on his computer and then starts swearing about Microsoft when it was clearly his own fault? Apple is being that guy right now.
Apparently this particular virus makes it impossible to safely remove the iPod. That ought to make it easier to identify -- or would if people didn't just unplug it, anyway.
Microsoft should ship each Zune with a Mac virus.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
First, let your customers know there is an issue.
Then, reach out to the affected customers. Do what's necessary to help them out. Even if that means giving them free AV software (in this case).
Then, reach out to all your current and future customers. Help them feel assured that the issue is well in hand, and that real processes are in place to prevent future/similar subsequent events.
While doing the above, carefully analyze the process, fix it, do a post-mortem on the issue, then test, test, test, test.
Then, worry about marketing.
A Passionate Independent Musician
This is still Apple neglecting to take FULL responsibility for their actions. Jobs knew that grouping Windows in with themselves it would initiate this kind of debate. It's the same as a back-handed compliment. It's you apologizing for stealing money I left out in the open and following with, "but you should have hidden it". One shouldn't leave valuables exposed, and Windows should be more resilient, but the real cause of this is some problem(s) along the way in Apple's development process. I don't care if the virus got there from an assembly plant in China or the PC next door. When I purchased my Ipod I was purchasing from Apple and it's their brand to protect. I'm responsible for the product after it gets on my doorstep but they're responsible for everything in between. That should be my privilege for spending $299.
The virus is written in Python and converted to Windows executable by standard python tool. I'd imagine it is easy to convert it to a Mac executable as well.
So it's really not about platform security but about platform popularity. If Mac had the same market share as Windows we'd see a Mac worm in this case now.
I think that what you meant to say "If they're making products using Windows...", then they better god damn well police thier Chinese subcontractors every day of every year to make sure that thier test technichans do not have administrator accounts on the production line machines with email access.
Exactly. It's a fundamental aspect of manufacturing with PC's and many, many companies do it successfully every day.
Had it been Dell, they would have been laughed at for the virus and ridiculed for passing the blame (and rightfully so). Apple should be treated no different.
OSX.Leap.A came out in january. I wonder what would happen if microsofts new music play came with it installed. Would people blame apple's security? Or blame microsoft?
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
``If apple are going to make products for use with windows, then it is their responsibility to ensure that those products don't contain virii for windows systems''
Tell that to all the companies that include malware in their software for Windows.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Windows fan but I would argue to Microsoft that they should seriously take viruses and security into strong consideration, you can't really blame Apple for this because they don't have viruses hence they don't have anti-viruses, it's just ironic.
... you have to wonder if Apple is deliberately trying to make themselves look bad to Windows users.
Doesn't seem like a very smart strategery to me, but then, I don't even own any black turtlenecks.
Netcraft confirms it.
I wish such companies would do so, but it's no defence for Apple.
Sure, the other companies intend to spread the malware, whereas Apple did not intend to spread the virus, but the other companies don't try and defend their actions by saying 'its not our fault, blame Microsoft for letting us do it' which is what Apple appears to be doing.
...that Apple adopted the Intel platform; But to now start supporting functionality in Windows without supporting those same features in Mac OS X, is just unacceptable! :-(
Yeah... you might break a Window. =p
Actually it was a Small Number of them and it is a trojan http://gavilan1010.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/small- number-of-ipods-shipped-with-windows-trojan/
Now I don't know what I think about them installing the virus on there if they did it knowingly. (Which I'll entertain bets that it was.)
But I have to give them cudos for managing to appologize AND make an insult all in one go. From their support page:
"As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it."
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
I'd prefer to think along the lines of "why you can't get anybody at Apple to care." It doesn't affect Macs, after all.
True enough. They should care though, they like to pitch themselves as the 'good' computer company and this little effort is hardly better than the Sony rootkit debacle writ small.
I am just wondering how things would go around here if the situation were reversed - like if a Microsoft product came preinstalled with some software that caused damage to OSX systems. Something tells me that the mob with torches, pitchforks and turtlenecks wouldn't be storming Apple's headquarters...
Read Pynchon.
at least two are listed here, neglecting the worms.
don't iPods usually come either formatted for Mac? or 'blank? or have those days gone? if not it'll be a manufacturer error, which Apple should be monitoring.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Obviously you have never heard of a 'waiver of liability'. I think that in actual fact Apple are legally responsible for very little.
README
ASCII
HTML
Filename extension
---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
It's not really acceptable to just say 'hey, go out and buy some antivirus software because the products we sell have viruses'. If I buy a bloody ipod it shouldn't ruin my computer. Though I imagine they have some legal agreement stating that I can't sue for lost data if my ipod destroys my computer...
or is this their revenge
-- I am the NRA, enough said...
I bet the newest "security update" from Windows automatically adds the virus into the iPod, thus creating the illusion that "iPods have virus, Zunes do not"....
Check out Unsealed: Whispers of Wisdom! http://unsealed.k3rnel.net It's an action-RPG about Open Sourcerers.
For years my systems have been virus free. Now I plug in my NEW Ipod and I looked into the file system on it and yup there is the virus and yup it has installed itself on one of the non development boxes. Now im forced to check the other boxes to see if damage has been done. It looks like a host of multiple visrses took over the box i hooked up to on the first night when i installed i-tunes and transfered over my old IPod files.
Way to go apple
Who do I send the bill for the clean up to ? Please post it in this thread I'll be happy to send the serial number of my ipod to you for proof.
Apple screws up and they take a stab at MICROSOFT????? BECAUSE THEIR Egnineers are too DUMB to run a virus scan on a final product before it ships? ARE YOU SERIOUS???? How can they even THINK FOR A SPLIT SECOND about doing that? Blame Windows because your "engineers" are too friggin STUPID to update their virus def's? Call Windows insecure, but at least the majority of Windows' USERS are smarter than Apples engineers!!!!!
Apple ships viruses with their products, somehow managed to push them through all their testers, and then complains about Microsoft's security record? Pot, meet kettle
If microsoft released the Zune with a virus that that exploited macs, thinking of the flame wars and massive litigation that could ensue!
The incorrect parent post is modded higher than the correction. WTF folks?
Heh, the last post listed at my threshold, and it's the first one to clearly explain the situation. gj
"Well yes we nuked a defenceless nation, but it's their problem for not having any type of missile shielding. Now that they have been wiped out, anyone who lived can come live with us! Well... kindof."
Great Intellect...
I would think that Apple would be the absolute last group of people on earth to be pissed about Microsoft's shoddy security model. If Apple is upset about it, I guess that means we've finally reached totality.
Here's betting that Microsoft's Zune is ported to the Macintosh soon after launch, and a special new Mac OS X virus is written specifically for the occasion. Press release: "We're embarrassed that such a thing could possibly slip by our Q&A department, but Apple keeps telling us that there are no viruses for Macs, so we just took them at their word and didn't check!"
The plural of 'virus' is 'viruses'. 'virus' is a neuter noun, so its plural is 'vira', not 'viri'. Besides, 'viri' is already taken. It's the plural of 'man', 'vir'.
"As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it."
They blame Windows, but they blame themselves more.
How is this passing the buck?
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
for APPLE's mistake. When hardware contains a virus thats the fault of the HARDWARE distributing it. Dont try and pass blame on the OS. Very bad form. Wow it appears Apple are as ignorant as their userbase.
From http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/Advoca cy
If the machine has a virus that writes itself to every mounted device, then the damage might have been done after the initialization.
A production machine that's doing the same thing indefinitely doesn't have much reason to go any place it could catch a virus.
please note it was a contract manufacturer. which means apple probably didn't regularly (if they even did) audit them. which means this COULD have been deliberate along with the possible theory of a random infection
Dunno about Apple, but if I were mass producing those things, I would _not_ build the thing empty, connect it to a Mac by hand, transfer the stuff to it slowly via Firewire, etc. That kind of "let's connect a cable, launch this handy application and click here to transfer the files" is ok for a mom-and-pop shop, but when you're mass producing stuff you just want to shave the last penny off the manufacturing costs.
So the way it's done is you take the working prototype, make an image of its hard drive, and write that on every hard drive before it's even assembled into the iPods.
Think, basically, how your IT department doesn't come with a suicase full of install CDs for Windows, Word, etc, for each PC. They just make an image off one workstation and then install that on all others. Much faster.
Same thing here, only more automated.
So if that image was made from a HDD with the virus on it, the assembly line will mindlessly churn thousands of copies of that.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I thought it was silly of Apple to poke at Microsoft on this one - until I read that a Windows computer in manufacturing was the cause.
Open season as far as I'm concerned when a computer in a manufacturing plant can get corrupted and then spread a virus via hard drives it is manufacturing. Shouldn't the reaction be to pull all Windows computer from hard drive manufacturing anywhere? Apple is being gentle as far as I can tell.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
2006... It's Windows... "My God, it's full of holes!"
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.
"Joswiak said it was traced to a particular Windows machine in the manufacturing lines of a contract manufacturer that builds the iPods for Apple." Go figure.
Architectural Renderings
No no no, it's like McDonald's giving out USB devices with a trojan on them and... wait a second.
Well to start with...
They didn't blame Microsoft for their failure ....
Aaah yes they did, to quote their statement...
As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.
As for the rest of what you said I suppose you'll back flip and rant about DRM when the next article comes out about how evil Microsoft has been for locking down Vista. What the majority of linux community fail to understand is the ability of the average person to administrate a PC.
System security is always going to be at the expense of useability and openness. If you have a highly secure, easy to use system, is likely you are going to sacrifice openess. Conversely if you have an a very open, highly secure system it is likely you are going to sacrifice useability. In the case of windows, it's extremely easy to use, with a very open development architecture, the end result is....?
Apple contract out manufacturing to an external contractor. They will specify everything: allowable percentage of defects, the finish on the plastics, quality control levels, acceptable losses in production etc. In essence, the level of quality of manufacture is specified, and the contractor will quote a price that reflects this.
The contract between Apple and the manufacturers should (and almost certainly does, but we'll never see it as it'll be under an NDA) also specify what the disks used in the ipods should contain - viz, the "OS" for the ipod in the form of the data Apple supply as the load - and bugger-all else.
This would seem to be a clear cut case of contractor negligence.
I cannot imagine how lax a manufacturer's process must be if they can allow stuff like this to happen. It's so 90s. When was the last time a gold master of a major application or OS came with a malicious payload included? It doesn't happen very often for big companies.
Note that I am aware that it happens sometimes and am not looking for a slashdotter to prove me wrong for points!
Apple (like just about everyone) contracts out production. One of their contractors did all of the above.
Ipod production is contracted out, like much other consumer electronics. There are multiple such contractors. That's why the iPod packaging reads "designed by Apple".
One of these contractors used Windows and infected some number of the iPods during the production process.
All the "Apple's using Windows *snicker*" messages from people who can't read for content just reinforce the "slashdork" meme.
I personally can't stand it - but it does help retards who buy software on a CD, shove it in the drive and sit there wondering why nothing is happening.
Seeing as I'm more capable of turning autoplay off, than my parents are to turn it on - I can see why it defaults to on.
I think I'm basically just making fun of you posting on slashdot that you can't work out how to turn it off.
People don't generally turn into bovines or poultry, honest! Manimal was just a TV series.
You probably can't fuck a chick without it splitting. It would probably be a duct tape job to hold it together whilst copulating. However, people have been known to shag chickens.
Cattle shouldn't be too much of a problem, if you're into that sort of thing.
It's fairly doubtful that you could infect either animal with HIV.
iTunes always came with the 'Quicktime' virus
except what you say simply doesn't match the facts given. You apparently didn't read either the article or the post to which you were responding.
If the virus were present on some kind of master disk image, that image would have been used by multiple stations on the production line. The article specifically references a single station. The only thing that fits that claim is that iPods were being mounted as drives on Windows PCs during production, and one of those stations got a virus. It sounds like, instead of using a high speed disk duplicator, they are connecting iPods to Windows PCs and running some program.
I'm not sure how current iPods are shipped, but it used to be that they all came formatted for the Mac (HFS), and iPods to be used with Windows had to be reformatted for FAT (the process was made somewhat invisible to the user by iTunes, though). If that's still the case, using Windows PCs in production makes even less sense. And how does a Windows virus end up on an HFS volume, and how could that possibly infect an end user's Windows computer, since Windows can't (natively) mount an HFS disk?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Yeah, it's a real shame that Microsoft's Zune Player is windows-only.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
There is a good deal of software (Quickbooks is the pre-eminent example) which are practically impossible to install and use without Admin privs. Technically, you can do it by granting permission to each of the obscure registry keys that QB needs access to, but unless you've got an extremely knowledgable and patient IT guru willing to blow hours on each workstation that needs the software, it ain't going to happen. If only Quickbooks were the only piece of software like this!
My favorite part is the "As you might imagine..." bit. Actually I wasn't imagining that at all. When Apple puts viruses on Windows, I don't imagine that Apple will be the one that's upset. Why does Apple think we are all feeling bad for them whenever THEY mess up and get some bad press?
C'mon guys, you do a lot of things right, but you can make some mistakes and have some class/balls about it.
while not a virus, how about the zip expoit in Safari.
Auto run any code from viewing a website.
That sounds pretty bad to me.
Just becuase nobody bothered to turn it into a virus via applescript does not mena that macs are secure, simply obscure in the eyes of the botnet masters.
Saying that all data you want to keep must be backed up is a vast (and harmful) oversimplification. It's the type of simplification that makes a person come off as a raving lunatic and tends to drive people away. A much better approach is simply to get people to think about the factors involved. How much time would it take you to rebuild all of the data on your hard disk? Given that x% of hard disks fail over n years, what is the likelihood that you will need to rebuild your data in the expected lifetime of your computer? Give most people a hard number and they can judge for themselves whether or not backing up is worth it to them.
This actually happened to me. I had iTunes 6 loaded, plugged in my brand new video ipod and it told me I had to update to iTunes 7. I reluctantly download and start installing iTunes 7 when my virus software kicks in! I killed the download, tried redownloading iTunes but the apple site was down. After finding a md5 for the installer and verifying it, I try to reinstall from the original download and no problem. So from my point of view it was some sort of randnom virus. I'll definetely be reporting my encounter.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
"...Joswiak said it was traced to a particular Windows machine in the manufacturing lines of a contract manufacturer that builds the iPods for Apple..." Why on Earth would there be a Windows machine anywhere near the ipod assembly line? (and no - it shouldnt have anything to do with the fact that ipods are PC compatible now)
That's bazaar. Maybe it's an assault on Apple's DRM?
Great, I wonder how many future USB keys this will be a problem with. I just bought a set of 3 keys with some U3 crapola on it and it doesn't let me format it, comes with 2 partitions, on with auto-start, and the only way to remove them(because I have a usb hard drive and a usb cd drive) is to disconnect EVERYTHING usb except the key and run the format on it. Yeah, totally kills my day since a lot of my usb periphs are hooked up to the back of the comp and there's a mess of wires down there. If this had a virus on a write-protected overriding windows-formatting stuff, that'd be just great too.
Buy software/hardware get a virus?
We have spyware in video games, malware protecting them, Viruses on new handheld devices, rootkits on CDs. This is total bs.
I do have to admit apple's stance takes the cake, blaming PC users. A true low.
If apple are going to make products for use with windows, then it is their responsibility to ensure that those products don't contain virii for windows systems. Suggesting that the virus being present in their product that they're shipping (regardless of the susceptibility of Windows to that virus) is the fault of Microsoft is passing the buck in a most horrible way.
Your two statements are not mutually exclusive. More than one party can be responsible for some result. Apple accepts blame for the incident and admits they are at fault. They also point out that this type of thing happens a lot due to flaws in Windows. I'm sorry but the fact that Windows viruses are so common (common enough that lots of random manufacturers have them on their drives) and yet MS has done very little harden Windows (so little that a major manufacturer did not easily detect it) is MS's fault.
I wish they mad more jabs at the weaknesses of Windows, maybe it would motivate MS to fix the problems. More than that, I wish the OS market were a competitive, free market instead of a monopolized one so MS would have real, financial incentive to fix the problems of their customers.
sure, it may be a windows user at the Ipod factory. But, it is Apples responsibility to test ipods, maintain quality etc.. No, it is Apple's fault.
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
I work under the, perhaps naive, assumption that if virus code is not actually executed, it is harmless.
If infected files are lying on an iPod, which does not execute any Windows code itself, then wouldn't it be harmless to have the virus there?
The last time I configured an iPod I don't remember seeing any files on it other than a basic directory structure, and certainly no executable files.
This worm would be entirely harmless unless:
* Someone mounted the iPod as a disk, as opposed to its more common media player use.
--AND--
* Someone clicked on an executable file that was on the iPod
It seems to me that this would very rarely happen. I would assume that the virus was caught by virus scanning software running on the host PC, which would of course detect and remove it. However, if someone with this virus on the iPod had no virus scanning software, the odds are extremely high that it would just sit on the disk and never be triggered.
This is a stupid and embarassing thing to happen, but I'm not convinced it's dangerous. I'm open to having my mind changed, though, so go ahead and see what scenerios you can devise that would make this truly dangerous to more than a handful of people.
D
I can't believe that Apple recommended that infected customers should *buy* AV software! Apple infected their computers, Apple should supply the software to remove the virus.
Does anyone else see the irony here. The Ipod was built and tested by a contractor using a "Windoze" machine. Wouldn't it be to Apple's advantage to insist their contractor use Macs on their production line, or is Apple too cheap to insist that their own products be uses to manufacture their products?
This is not intended to be slam on Apple, I just find it ironic.
Points for taking time trying to enlighten another person. :-)
Way to go twitter, nothing like an opportunity to do your "M$ windoze" routine. Are they letting you post again after all your troll and flamebait moderations? And why are you back on it again?
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
I know iTunes is a crappy application (on Windows), but I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a virus...
MS is to blame because Apple shipped rotten apples?
...whether technically it fits the classic/correct defenition of a computer 'virus'. It's malware. The parent was replying to a post that didn't even call it a virus, so I don't understand the point other than to try and minimize the issue.
If you go by strict definition, there are no "viruses" for computers any more for Windows or Mac.. There are worms, trojans, and hybrids of the two.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
Apple is just being friendly by making Windoze users feel right at home and not feel like some stranger in a virus-free land.
Operating systems are appliances for running other programs. If those other programs require the operating system to be logged in as root, then for all practical purposes the operating system must be running as root. If the operating system is insecure when running as root, that is the fault of the operating system vendor, not the application vendor. Further, the operating system vendor can put a good deal of pressure on applications vendors to avoid this behavior. I dunno if Quickbook qualifies for the Designed for Windows XP logo, but if it does and it still exhibits such bad behavior, this is Microsoft's fault and is illustrative of the quality of their standards.
Way to go twitter, nothing like an opportunity to do your "M$ windoze" routine. Are they letting you post again after all your troll and flamebait moderations? And why are you back on it again?
Someone blamed Apple for the M$ virus ecology, why not read the article and see that it had nothing to do with anything other than Genuine M$ software?
Of course, I'm not going to let a loser like you run me off with insults or mod bombs. Now go fuck yourself.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
And as long as we're linking to each other's posting history, here's my contribution. I guess you're still "laughing" at me, eh?
I suppose you can only post once a day now? Well, if you stop trolling maybe they'll let you post more. Bwahahaha. Run along now.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
Hint: it WAS Apple's fault for not properly maintaining their systems, and allowing a virus to propagate. Yes, you can run Windows systems without viruses: for some reason, I would have assumed such a system would be far better maintained than it was.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
"you're soaking your fingers in it."
Apple blames Windows for the Virus...but who put it on th ipod?
Some windoze user at the factory, of course. Isn't that the normal way W32 filth propagates? If you had read the article, you would have seen:
So, unless Apple is lying to cover up, this was not some targeted attack but just the usual Windoze born disease propagation. M$ is like a plague, and it should avoided as such. Apple should be embarrassing to admit needing it in any part of the process outside developing W32 iTunes. The only way to keep W32 infestations away is to never use it or let a M$ machine touch a filesystem of yours that it can read.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
bah humbug.
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
Why are you posting the same thing again ?
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
From http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/Advoca cy
Twitter posted this exact same post elsewhere in this discussion, got modded down to -1 for it and is now reposting it to try and get some karma. Please don't indulge him.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --