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Melting Coins Now Illegal In the U.S.
A number of readers have noted the action by the U.S. Mint to outlaw the melting down or bulk export of coins. This has come about because the value of the precious metals contained in coins now exceeds their face value.
The Mint would rather not have to replace pennies (at a cost of 1.73 cents per) or nickels (at 8.74 cents). The expectation is that Congress will mandate new compositions for some U.S. coins in 2007.
If this keeps up, .002 cents really will = $.002
(Sorry, but it had to be said...)
Can you spend $.02 to make $.01
let the good times roll
Can I continue to light my cigars with hundreds?
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
They stopped making em out of copper before the 50's (I forget exactly when its finals week XD)
they make them out of an electroplated nickel alloy now..
Dare i say it shouldn't just be oil we should be concerned about running out?
JUNK METAL coins are now worth more than their face value... I think this is a sign that asteroid mining could be feasible (the average nickel iron monster is worth several trillian.. not counting any incidental precious metals)
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A worthless coin anyway.
Dada21 will be along to spout something about precious metals, followed at 11 by a film.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
As much as I can understand why they do not want people melting down these coins, how much is the metal really worth in it's "raw" form unrefined?
My second question is how much would it cost to refine these metals to make them worth the most? Copper prices are sky high right now but a lump of melted pennies probably wouldn't be able to be sold as a "copper" since there are a number of other metals involved. Is this something that can really be profitable?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
It might just be more feasible to get rid of pennies altogether.
l
here is an article i have found to be particularly illuminating.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a981009a.htm
lemme just grab some tin foil out of the kitchen....... Seriously though, I wonder what they will use for the new coins....
.-.
I wonder how much of this is because of "increasing value of precious metals" and how much is "The devaluing of the American dollar" (I recognize that from the perspective of Americans this would be the same thing); if it is based on the dollars value, why wouldn't you attempt to correct the problem with the dollar (by not running a 1/2 trillion dollar deficit) rather than finding cheaper materials?
Since they only penalty is a fine, can you pay the fine out of the money you made selling the metal from the melted down coins?
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Just another regulation. Why doesn't the government just make them worth less by changing the composition. If they can't, they should discontinue making them. I don't actually use pennies, I buy everything with a credit/debit card. That's my .73 they're wasting, and my $1,000,000 to enforce this law.
It's also illegal to mutilate or destroy paper money. This is not much of an issue. I didn't know when slashdot became concerned over the money supply.
And for folks who'll ask, replacing cash with electronic transactions isn't the answer. I for one like the anonymity of cash and the fact that I'm carrying a physical object of known value that can handle some pretty heavy abuse before becoming worthless.
-b.
How can the US Mint make something illegal, only Congress has the power to pass laws. Someone please explain.
The expectation is that Congress will mandate new compositions for some U.S. coins in 2007.
IOW, the coinery composed a forbiddance against decomposing, but the newly composed representatives forbodes a coining of a new composition.
Have you read my journal today?
I'm too busy straining the gold out of seawater and reclaiming the platinum out of old catalytic converters to mess with melting down pennies and nickels...
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
Wiping your ass with worthless US currency now illegal.
Keep those presses rolling, boys!
Perhaps it's time to start seriously thinking about withdrawing the penny from circulation. You can't buy anything with a penny anymore. You only really use them for two reasons:
1. Stores like the $X.99 price point, because it subtly makes people think they're paying $X rather than $X+1. $X.95 is also popular, and could work with only nickels.
2. Sales tax is based on percentage, so even if you have a round price like $1.00, you may end up with something like $1.07.
OK, 3 reasons if you're paying for gas with cash. But note that gas stations already advertise prices to the thousandth of a dollar -- as far as I know, the US has never actually minted a mil -- and they already get rounded up to the nearest penny. I'm sure gas stations would be quite happy to round to the nearest nickel instead.
Of course, given how many transactions are electronic these days, withdrawing the penny wouldn't necessarily alter credit or debit transactions.
Take them out of circulation, and then the Mint can do whatever they like with the alloys. Or if they're smart, they'll use alloys for a $1 coin and stop making the $1 bill.
Haven't seen Dada21 recently on /., but I'd like to take issue with the summary, where it says "because the value of the precious metals contained in coins now exceeds their face value."
Pennies and nickels DO NOT contain "precious metals". We're talking about zinc and nickel, usually classified as "base metals"
Set your phasers on "funky"!
How much is the gold in a one pound, or two pound coin worth? Enough to make it worthwhile?
Get your own free personal location tracker
Part of the problem is that these metals are becoming more valuable, but the other half of the problem is that our money is now worth less than the metal it is printed on! Maybe if the borrow and spend president we have now would stop spending like a drunken sailor -- and stop borrowing billions of dollars from China and other fun governments, our money would not devalue quite as fast. Part of the reason why oil is so expensive is because you are buying it with US dollars that aren't worth as much as they used to be. When the Euro was introduced it was set to be equal to 1 US dollar -- look at the price now! If we don't get this debt in hand things are going to get a lot worse! And don't think you are going to get off easy just because you aren't an American the economies of the world are more closely tied than ever. Besides there is a chance that your market could get flooded with cheap American exports (at least we can hope that will happen.)
I'll bet there's nothing keeping you from placing all those pennies on railroad tracks and having a train stomp those suckers flat.
And stop linking New York Times, you [expletive deleted]s. I don't want to fucking register nor do I want to have to take the goddamn time to go to bugmenot.com to get a NY Times uid & pwd. Here's some links that don't require registration to read: here , here , here , and here . Anyway, now that they said don't melt those coins, guess what they are going to do? Melt those coins.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
anyone read this the other day?
"Charles Bull recently woke to the overwhelming smell of gas in his house. It was a neighbour who noticed that the copper pipes that supplied the house with gas had been removed." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6207410.stm
i think the moral is "don't use copper if you can help it"
Under what authority can the US Mint create new law? The US Mint, the Secret Service and the Treasury are all in the enforcement, not the legislative branch.
Some AC said it was illegal to mutilate or deface paper money. Uh, no, it's not. It's also not illegal to cut up a US coin in some artistic fashion and sell it for a higher amount; this is done all the time. In terms of defacement, you can't stick a picture of Kennedy on a quarter and try to redeem it as a half-dollar, and the same goes for gluing a "20" on the corner of a one-dollar bill. That's simple fraud, in this case called counterfeiting.
[
seems like it MUST be malicious....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
They could always do a reverse split on the dollar 1:10... Then everybody would convert their existing dollars for New Dimes, and pennies would more.
Other than being completely impractical, it's the perfect plan!
Thereby triggering deflation. While it's generally not good for the economy, it would solve the problem right? They could also consider alternative materials to metal.. a specifically engineered glass impregnated with various polymers to increase it's give and prevent shattering perhaps?
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I know it would be incredibly difficult to do in these modern days, but I'd love to see dollars revalued as 10 "new dollars" (or even more... 50/1, 100/1?). Inflation has devalued money so that anything under a dollar has so little value. The original dollar back in 1790 was a pretty good chunk of change. Even back in the early 20th century, a dollar was worth 10 or 20 dollars today. What's it even mean to be a millionaire these days? It's not a trivial amount of money, but you could barely live off it.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I guess if this becomes a long-term problem, they could always do like Japan (and probably other countries...) and start minting pennies out of aluminum, or some other cheap, affordable metal.
(It still takes a lot of energy to produce, so why did aluminum get so cheap anyway?)
Not Fair!!!!
Drunken sailors sepnd ther OWN money.
I for one welcome our coin-purse overlords...
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
Copper Penny: $0.01
Copper Washer: $0.10
Making a copper washer by poking a hole in a copper penny: $10,000.00 fine
That about it?
A goal is a dream with a deadline
pound-foolish?
I wonder when digital pennies will be worth less and cost more than a byte in a file... At that point, how do we "implicitly value" the dollar, or any currency? Money only has worth because law and people writing the law say so. If it is counterfeited, and spends, and is taken out of circulation, in small amounts and limited instances, how will an economy collapse? Even the US is the biggest, authorized counterfeiter of cash, producing money that often NEVER goes into REAL circulation. Remember the multiple billions of dollars in Iraq alone, in the truck convoy? The US prints and distributes cash to dozens, if not many, many dozens of countries, much of which then sits in a vault, or is loaned to people who don't need it.
Money only has value when your neighbor possesses more of it or more toys than you and throws it away faster than you can earn it. Some people are talented and can make money off of just about ANYthing, while others have lesser imagination and no access to resources (philanthropic, banking, lending, grant-issuing, etc.) and give up on trying to sell or introduce or even patent or copyright something that could be their ticket out of a hell-hole. (For example, I'm sitting on ideas either in my head or on paper, and I cannot do much with them out of fear or disappointment that all along the way, someone or some firm will try to nickel and dime me to death, reassign to themselves my IP the creation of which they had not a DAMN thing to do with, and so on. But, trust has to be found, earned or made at SOME point, so like all other fools or fortunate, I have to take the plunge at some point.... )
Now THAT' when money/currency has value: Those who DESPERATELY need it, but have no credentials, have bad credit, are out of work, or are somehow not in a special category just won't have any without stealing it, begging for it, prostituting themselves, or resisting taxes to hoard every last penny.
Would be nice if every 5 years or so, those who are DEEEEEEPLY indebted are just clean-slated. After all, if they can't find a job (meaningful, gainful, non-demeaning) and the creditor routinely writes off debt to clear the books, the debtor is still stuck with the 7-year (or longer, considering how many credit companies buy up each other or sell files to each other, meaning, effectively you can still be "punished" long after 7 years have passed...) stigma, but the creditor gave up.
Considering how many multiple BILLIONS the USA (read: the power wielding minority of ultra wealthy, their lobbyists, and the corrupt politicians in on the game) prosecuting a war (read: persecuting those who don't "get with the program") but can't find a way to grant amnesty or some sort of significant debt reduction to tens if not hundreds of thousands of debt-ridden students, mortgage holders imminently in jeopardy of homelessness....
I wonder how many times over the major cities' slums could have been torn down and rebuilt to modern living standards.
Penny-wise and pound-foolish...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The mint is apparently upset that the older pennies have not been devalued like the rest of US currency due to inflation. They would prefer that holders of pennies be forced to accept devalued currency. If you can't melt the coins, then they will happily take them from you at below market value to melt at a profit.
i've been a good sport to this point.. but you are now the 4th person to correct me on this without bothering to read the others.. mods.. if you want to mod my original post down for quoting the wrong figures feel free.. but when posts get both redundant and unnecessarily vicious they need it too..
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Why not really fix the problem by:
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Warning: large image
$1 and $2 coins are the reason I moved from Canada to the US. If pieces of metal bigger than a quarter become mainstream currency in the US I'll have to find another country.
Why bother? Perhaps my economics is shaky, but wouldn't reducing the amount of currency in circulation increase its value? Seems like a self-correcting system to me.
-Grey
Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
Making melting down the coins illegal is one of those things that will just give petty criminals ideas.
They should just add some sulphur to the coins. It makes them more machinable (not much use for stamped coins though) and utterly destroys their value for recycling.
Maybe the real reason they're doing this is that they've added RFID chips to coins and they don't want people destroying lots of them.
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
If I am cleaning up and find pennies along with other trash, I just toss them.
Would you pick up a penny off the ground?
A nickel?
So they then apply sales tax which will come to a fraction of a nickle. Do you really think they will ever round down? No,they will always round up. You'll see your annual sales tax expenditure double (at least).
Umm...
The way your currency is going, you will soon have the same problem with your dollars.
Long live the Euro, designed to kick America where it hurts most!
Nor is nickel, and neither is zinc. Hyperbole, when will you leave?
Time to start melting Canadian cents for all your copper-reclaimation needs -- 98% copper until 1996.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
It's painful enough watching your typical high school student working the cashier at MacDonalds make change as it is (especially if there's no auto-change dispenser).
Tweaking the value of the currency would probably cause one or two of them to have an anurism on the spot.
While it might be fun to watch...there has to be a better way.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
If you're going to state something as fact, please back it up. Mutilation or defacement of money so that it is unfit for circulation is illegal: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=42 6715
I've seen several machines at tourist sites that you feed a penny (and a quarter). The machine then flattens the penny and stamps some design on the resulting token. Will these also now be illegal?
When you outlaw melting coins, only outlaws will have... er- um...
Err... no.
Every nation that has done this rounds to the nearest nickel, not the next highest.
Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means
I work with melting glass in 300 pound furnaces as a hobby. Now that I have let you in my my sorid secret what everyone is thinking about is the amount of money that it will cost to bring these coins to a molten state. Energy around the globe is costing more, it is honestly not worth you time just from a cost perspective to even start melting them.
You will need a furnace big enough to overcome the heating costs. Wire melter, gas combustion, Moly, of SiC Starbars. Any of these in a 300 pound range once you factor in the Firebricks, controller, and crucible will run well ove 18k just to build out. Lets not get into the amount of money it will take to fire one.
Just guessing you looking at around 50 bucks to fire one up to melt heat, hold it long enough to melt them, pour them into ingots, time to let it cool. You are really talking about a shit load of work for very very little profit. Just my 2cents...A PUN! RUN!
Neck.
.
Phone companies around the world are having problems with people cutting down their lines to steal the copper.
The US had a previous round of making it illegal to melt down coins - for a number of years in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the US was on a bimetallic standard, with both gold and silver exchangable at a fixed ratio, so depending on the relative market value of gold vs. silver, people could play games with the rates, and some years it made sense to take dollar banknotes to the Treasury and get coins in one of the metals, melt them down, and sell the metal as bullion, so it was made illegal. This was also tied up in politics of farmers' loans (e.g. if you had a debt in dollars, could you pay with the cheaper metal or did you have to pay with the more expensive metal), mining interests, etc.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I'm not exactly sure this would be profitable unless I had somebody elses heat source. $40 coal $1000 dollar homemade furnace or $400 acetylene torch assembly. So 40000 pennies or or 8000 nickels. I'd probably still need another tank of acetylene. So where do I sell this glob.
He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
I always thought that the mint should make all coins out of radioactive waste. It would solve the problem of nuclear waste disposal. It would encourage consumers to spend money - quickly. This would help the economy. And it would definitely discourage hoarding of currency.
[Insert pithy quote here]
(Hint: Each country only made it illegal to melt their own coinage.)
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
1.73 cents per cent ?
Well, considering the bank charges $0.15 to buy a roll of change around here.
0.50 * 1.73 = 0.865 - 0.15 = 0.715 - 0.50 = $0.215
A 21.5% return is alot better than some some mutual funds, & blows a Collective Deposits' return of 4.25% (last I checked ages ago) out of the water.
What are they going to do, start watching every single recycling plant in America ?
Perhaps regulate the amount of theese metals recycling plants are allowed to process per-day ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
As others have pointed out, there are no precious metals in our pennies and nickels. There are zinc, copper, and nickel in them, all base metals. But the commodities boom caused by massive new demand in Asia combined with the plummeting dollar now means that even base metals are starting to look valuable. Of course the real causes of the declining dollar are our massive trade and budget deficits, about which Congress will do nothing at all. No politician gets reelected by saying he's going to raise taxes and cut your benefits. It is always much more expedient to rob people's savings and earnings by allowing inflation to happen. After all, if oil costs more in dollars you can always blame greedy oil companies and Middle Easterners. So Congress will "solve" this problem by reintroducing steel pennies.
Eliminate the concept of anything less than five, altogether. The Law of Fives, indeed. What a fine idea!
Seven? that's five and two-fifths.
Three? forget about it, it's too small to matter...
OK, didn't anyone notice it was odd that the US Mint was going to create this "law". They are part of the executive branch of the government NOT the legislative branch. So this would be unconstitutional.
How hard is it to realize that if it costs your more than 1 cent (or 5 cents) to make something worth 1 cent (or 5 cents), then don't make it. Basic enconomics Duh, if the pennies and nickels are worth more as materials than they are as currency then we SHOULD melt them down and use those materials for some better purpose and find some cheaper material to make our coins.
What about the high school science experiment where you dissolve the zinc core?
Well, make sure you have a post-1982 penny. You make a scratch that cuts through the copper exterior. Dump the penny in nitric acid (HNO3). Nitric acid can dissolve Zinc, but not copper. Thus, you're left with a shell of copper.
If they want to bust a classroom of schoolchildren for killing pennies, go right ahead! I throw mine away.
Like the IM client or the character from HHGTG?
:P
Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
The truth is, any nation that mixes common metals (not say, silver or gold) in their coins doesn't need to worry about the melting-down issue unless the metal prices go through the roof. It just wouldn't be profitable. Now Canada, I believe their nickel-based coins are pure or nearly so. That might be a different matter.
The world is my oyster. That's why it's always in a stew.
In Canada until 1997 they made the pennies of 98% copper and the lightest version weighed 2.5g ... using those numbers it will take 1.82 pennies to make a pound. I get $2 a pound at the scrap yard for copper. Thats a 9% ROI .... alot better then I get from my term deposits.
Now using the 1942-1979 pennies that weighed 3.24g it will only take $1.40 in pennies to make a pound.... Thats a 30% return.
My father said that coin that people got in change at the train station was so insignificant that people threw them in the corner where they would pile up. He got a few of each kind for the kids.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Maybe if the government didn't let inflation go unchecked for so long a penny with only 0.0625 grams of copper (2.5g, 2.5% Cu) would be worth more than the copper and zinc it is made from. I've been waiting for plastic coins, perhaps with RFID identification tags embedded in them, the very short range kind of course.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
"...the value of the precious metals contained in coins now exceeds their face value..."
Kinda like before, when they started making pennies out of zinc, and quit making silver coins out of silver? Nickels haven't been made out of nickel since like the '60's, right?
I've long been under the belief that the anti-counterfeiting techniques used in making bills had to have put their cost at greater than a dollar. Meaning the multitude of "new" dollar bills were already operating at a loss. I mean, the little metal/plastic strip radio transmitter thingus, so the palm-tree-looking "cell phone towers" can keep track of the currency driving by them, those can't be cheap, right?
I shit you not, "they" are building a new one of those towers down the street from my house, ingeniously disguised as a church! The palm tree and pine tree ones look pretty crappy. But, aside from the telltale little trailer-building, this one just looks like a new bell tower added on to an existing church. I'm not a religious man, but that's got to be blasphemous in some way.
...when you mint a coin that is worth less than the metals contained therein. Easy solution: remove an amount of US currency off the market to make a penny actually worth the face-value. Would this harm people? Sure, but that's an argument for another day.
The Constitution authorizes the government to mint, not print, money for a reason: paper money is worthless. A fiat currency doesn't represent value, it represents debt. It's only worth anything as long as people have confidence in it. Gold has intrinsic value based on its scarcity and usefulness.
Get rid of the Federal Reserve and bring back hard money, I say. I, for one, would welcome the end of inflation. I'd love to be able to stick $10 in a mattress, come back in 20 years, and have the same purchasing power as I had before. That's simple and intuitive. If the Fed can rob your money of its value, it is robbing you! Paper money is just a scheme for legalized theft.
Constitutionally Correct
Check out Coinflation... they've been tracking this stuff for quite awhile now. You'll notice that the figures cited on the front page don't match what everyone has been cutting and pasting on here... that reflects the difference between replacement cost for the Mint, and raw melt value of the metal in the coin.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
Um, yes it is.
Hmm. Any of you yanks have change for $10,000?
How does that hold up in the face of inflation? If the face value of the coin reflected the vaule of its material, I'd agree with you. But since the US economy is not currently based on "hard" currency, I don't think there is a good solution. We can push the problem off a few years is all.
Constitutionally Correct
about inflation.
Dog is my co-pilot.
So the $45.00 worth of pennies I saved since I was 7 is now worth like $80.00? Neat, now I can retire =P
Microsoft aggravates my tourettes syndrome.
From the link
The United States Mint, concerned that rising metal prices could lead to widespread recycling of pennies and nickels, has banned melting or exporting them.
Umm how can the US Mint "make" a law? Isn't that the perogative of Congress?
It's funny and sad at the same time. I've been think about this for about a year. It's sad that we have devalued
the dollar so much that pennies are now not worth their weight. We saw silver coins horded after 64, I think we'll
see pennies and nickels go the same way.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
In capitalist west, coins melt YOU!
The rule in TFA is an attempt to avoid Gresham's law; it's left as an exercise to determine how large a profit on converting metals is needed to make the risk worthwhile. The orthodox economic prediction is either a shortage of small change or a reformulation.
The case of the circulating penny provides a counter-example - there's a cost to conversion, and the roughly 100% excess value isn't quite enough for most people to horde the coin.
Just about 2 days ago, I took 3grams of my Silver eagle (2005 Bullion) and 15grams of my 1trz gold bar along with 2grams of copper and alloyed it into 18Kt. Gold. Making a pendent for my wife. Guess I'll have to chop the rest of my eagle up really good so that they won't be able to tell what it is/was that I used for fine silver. ;)
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
I must say that the US Mint needs some competition. Why does it cost so much to make a penny? If we just imported pennies from China, the mint would be able to actually make money.
that would be cool :D
I don't see any reason we need pennies anymore. Even nickles are more annoying than they're worth. I'd suggest doing away with both and if people don't want to round off to the nearest 10 cents then they can use some form of check, credit card, or electronic cash. I have a big pile of pennies and nickles sitting in a drawer in my desk because it's to much hassle to spend them or convert them to more managable cash.
It's about time the government offers us some form of electronic cash that we can optionally use. It's stupid for consumers and vendors to both be paying credit card companies and banks high fees in order to do basic commerce. If the government doesn't provide a form of electronic cash then they shouldn't complain if somebody else does it - with the obvious side effect of it making commerce very hard to tax if it's done by a third party.
I'm shocked that no small country has figured out that electronic cash that is easy, secure, private, and doesn't have fees is the secret to making major profits. You don't have to offer the option to cash out so long as you can get enough businesses on board to begin with - easy enough as you can start your own. I've always imagined that instead of offering the ability to cash out of my electronic currency I'd set up some sort of online money market where others could convert between my currency and others while making a nice cut for themselves as part of the process.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
How about a sane fiscal policy, for a change?
"Borrow and squander" doesn't do much for the value of the dollar, does it?
There is a sudden increase in the number of eBay auctions for the US penny.
Starting bid at $0.02, will ship worldwide, seller ID USMint.
Seriously, if you can pull a 2 cents per nickel profit by selling it as materials then why doesn't the government recall the current nickels (replace them with something cheaper to make) then melt them down 20,000,000,000 nickels X $0.02 cents profit per coin = $400,000,000 (minus of course the cost of the recall and the costs of converting the coins into raw materials)
I believe this is why Australia and New Zealand did away with any value below 5c, if you are trading with coins and notes.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Nice to know we are still on the copper standard :)
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
I just take pennies, melt them down, and then sell them for more pennies. Repeat process over and over. Become rich!!
I work for the U.S. Mint. So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies.
Fark.com called - they say they're sorry and they'll take you back.
Have any information to share? We'd love to hear it.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
This reminds me of efforts to create electronic wallets, which are basically smart-cards that you can load from the bank machine and use in much the same way as a credit card. The problem for me with these things, is that they are usually owned and controlled by a private enterprise, rather than the national mint. If physical currency was ever to be phased out we shouldn't be locked into a system controlled by a non-state enterprise, since otherwise that enterprise would have to the potential to hold the country to ransom. Whatever negative aspects physical currency has, at least the exchange is limited to human error, and doesn't add an unnecessary third party for transactions.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
This topic has been covered by a contributor of a citizen newspaper 2 weeks ago. His article is very well researched and explain the notions of inflation and debasement:
http://losangeles.broowaha.com/article.php?id=435
It's a very good read for anyone interested in the subject.
So what does this mean for coins that have been stamped at those "souvenir coin" machines you see at popular tourist spots? Are you or are you not allowed to melt or export them? Stamping is not melting. Could a coin smelter/smuggler buy such a machine and run the coins through it first to avoid arrest? Or are souvenir coins now under legal protection?
No I won't:
Figure 3c per transaction. Average maybe three transactions a day. 9c per day, or about $2.70/month.
Or $32.85 per year.
That's a dinner out for two at a cheap restaurant once per year. Not really a noticeable amount, even if every single thing I buy with cash ends up losing money by rounding and it's never in my favor.
And all that assuming you're using cash for all of those transactions. I personally use a debit card almost always, and expect that to be the norm in the relatively near future. Computers deal with pennies just fine, and the electrons are cheaper than zinc!The value of the currency has not dropped dramatically. As a matter of fact, it is too high by most estimates. And that is because China and other Asian countries are increasing foreign reserves to finance our trade imbalance. The federal deficit is actually less on a percentage basis than Japan and many European countries (France, Italy, Germany, etc).
The reason coins are worth less than the metal is due to the spike in metal prices over the last several years. This you can blame on China for buying up every scrap of iron, aluminum, copper, and anything else they can get. Hey, they've got an expanding economy to feed.
Oil is expensive because Opec got tired of $10 oil and everyone stopped investing in production. Throw in supply instability in Iraq, Nigeria, and Venezula; toss in higher demand from everyone; and you get a spike in oil prices.
The higher euro is due to currency manipulation by Asian countries. Since the dollar is prevented from depreciating, the euro sees an odd effect and becomes overvalued.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
How about shrinking them?
Oh, even better: melt down your pre-1982 pennies to make the copper shrink coil!
---k--
</stupid>
It may be peak copper, but there is another possible reason:
Consider for a moment that gold and silver are normally used as a hedge against inflation. Over the last 20 years they have not kept up with inflation though. If you do any reading on the subject some claim this is due to central banks manipulating the price of gold/silver to help disguise inflation. If the above is true, gold and silver prices would stay depressed, but inflation would show up in other commodities. E.G. base metals as they have not been used as a typical investment hedge and thus the central banks would not have tried to manipulate their prices directly.
The Fed quietly announced thanksgiving weekend in 2005 that they would no longer publish the M3 money supply figure. For those who don't know the M3 figure is the estimate of total US dollars out in the world. It was used by many as a direct gauge of US monetary inflation policy.
Here is a link to a reconstituted M3 figure Some think the removal of this information was done to hide the true scope of the impending financial problems that are on the horizon.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
This was moderated funny, but back when dollars were worth a lot more than they are now, there were such things as thousand dollar bills. If they existed today there would be lots of demand for them. The highhest denomination is $100 to make it awkward to do big transactions with cash.
No discussion of currency destruction is complete without mention of Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty of KLF burning one million pounds.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
to delegate it's authority, especially not to unelected bureaucrats. The entire mass of regulation is blatantly unconstitutional.
It's one of those areas where the powers that be (all 3 branches) have simply chosen to ignore the Constitution (as if the Supremes stating that "Black is White" makes it so.), breaking the system of checks and balances in the process.
The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.James Madison
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Seriously.
The US Mint published an interim rule blocking the melting of coins in the Federal Register, which is valid for 120 days. During the next 30 days, the Director of the Mint is required to accept public comments on the proposed rule. After 120 days, the Director will make a final decision. Anyone who has something to say that is more literate than "OMFGROFLBBQ! The US MINT is suxx0rzzzz!!1!11" is invited to comment at the website the government has set up just for that purpose, or submit comments in writing to:
Make sure you get your comments in by January 14, 2007.This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
On another note, kudos for linking to the Straight Dope (great site).
Read my blog posts on usability.
It isn't just a decrease in the value of a dollar, it's also an increase in the value of the metals.
Shadus
Is this all real? Really, I want to know.
It's a function of higher value of commodities as well as decline of US currency.
$signature =~ s/$signature//;
Just think if the U.S. Mint decides to stamp George W. Bush's noggin on the penny or nickel.
Wouldn't that in effect devalue the monetary value of the coin to be less than $0.00? Maybe this would be the first "real world" application of the newly-coined (no pun intended) number "nullity"?!?
...only outlaws will be smelters.
Section. 10.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
People enjoy flaming me lately but I'll say this anyway: the Federal Reserve act was illegal. Unless you're in a territory of the Federal Government, gold or silver is the only thing that is legally money in the United States, period.
The government could come along and simply declare that currency is government property which it 'loans out' at no cost. Of course, doing so would be an incentive for people to use other currencies over which they have unlimited control.
* For those of you who would argue that melting coins removes them from circulation, thereby interfering with Congress' power to regulate their value, I respond that if people want to melt them down, the government is doing a lousy job of regulating their value in the first place. Besides, the Congress derives its power from the People, and the People are entirely within their rights to promote public policy, and you can pick your favorite: private property ownership, limited government, efficiency in the copper and nickel markets, the right to exchange value for value...
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
... oh, and the German word for fork lift is: Gabelstapler
Just don't try and eat one. *wink*
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Why make coins that are worth more than their value? Since we have a fait system, the coins could be made of plastic for all the efect it would have on the value.
I was thinking the exact same thing - I had a penny pressed when I was in the Empire State Building 8 years ago... Although someone mentioned something along the lines of destroying a legal tender being illegal.
All "hard money" is just an accounting fiction anyway. As are paper money and credit.
Cool...does that mean we get to mint steel pennies again?
I actually got one in change a few years back...you just don't see them that often anymore unless in a coin collection.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
All those movies showing cash suit cases are so funny.
Money is hard to use in large quantities, its all serializes too.
A 1000ounce bar = $650000 = 31Kg
So 3 bars is nearly 2 million dollars, or 100Kg, yeah not quite easy to carry, but at least you can put it on a little old ladies shopping trolly.
And guess what.... customs usually has no taxes duties or restrictions if you are transporting gold, but carry cash, and your toast.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
According to the article, 1.7 cents is not the value of the metal in the penny, it is the cost of making the penny, which includes the value of the metal. Interestingly enough, it also says that the metal in pennies from 1982 and earlier (which are 95% copper) is 2.13 cents. I've always thought that the government benefits when coins are taken out of circulation since it increases the value the dollar. Which is clear since for awhile now people could profit now by melting down 1982 and earlier pennies. But now that the pennies cost more than 1 cent to produce, it is no longer beneficial. I wonder if this law will drop from the books once the composite in the penny is changed so that the metal value of a penny is once again less than 1 cent.
Aaron Russo's America: From Freedom to Fascism. See you at 11.
plastic money?
it's going to be hard to find any coin material that can cost less then the face value, be durable, and still large enough to find.
maybe they can use slag.
So is the EULA printed really small on the pennies somewhere and I just haven't noticed?
Paper is too easy to counterfeit.
Money coins that cost almost as much as the coin's face value -
removes the desire to make fake money.
The $1 gold coin was a good start,
$5 $10 $20 $50 $100 $500 $1000 coins would be great!
Paper Money sucks. Coins are better - and a treasure chest full of phat loot looks better full of shiny metal!
Coins last longer, and have a cheaper cost over the life of the coin.
They wont bleach, rip, or otherwise get easily destroyed.
Put 4 or 5 coins in your pocket and you have enough money for the whole night.
Mass shipping of drug money becomes impossible - a man with a 400 lbs suitcase has a lot of explaining to do at the airport.
Coins are better! Certain alloys can be tested to be the real thing.
For quick and easy scanning - sandwich an RFID chip inside the middle of the coin with it's serial number and value. Easy to track.
Far from funny - coins can be the solution to high tech crimes and eliminating easily duplicated cash.
Us Canadians aren't nearly so cheap when we go out.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Would this apply to putting a coin into nitric acid since the resulting ions can be turned back into the metal through an electrochemical reaction?
unless they dramatically change how coins are made, it would probably be easier to fake one than it is to print passable fake paper currency. there are tons of presses sitting idle in this country that could turn out coins if somebody cared to make the dies. might not be as efficient as printing sheets of bills, but it could be done i would think. i am guessing the effort would only pay off for something like a $10 (and up) coin value.
i don't know how true it is, but i remember reading something stating that there were more counterfeit $10 bills now because they are generally not checked like a $20 or $50 would be (with that magic pen). i know they exist to some extent because my housemate got one somewhere. it looked valid, but the paper was junky. it looked like it had been passed around a good bit though. he had no idea where he picked it up and got stopped trying to use it to buy his morning coffee.
It seems to me that the best thing the U.S. Mint could do for itself is to beat everyone to the punch - it should work with banks to collect, melt down, re-mint all the existing coins! Problem solved! The coin collectors would support this because their old coins would suddenly increase in rarity value!
You know, I said that in jest, but the more I think about it ... I don't see a downside.
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
Even better, when you offer someone a penny for their thoughts, it might someday be worth more than your two cents. :)
It isn't just a decrease in the value of a dollar, it's also an increase in the value of the metals.
I'm sorry and this isn't personal but I'm amazed at how little financial acumen we collectively have. This is the financial equivalent of being surprised that 40% of all sick days are taken on Monday and Friday.
The dollar being worth less and things costing more are exactly the same phenomenon. The value of the metals did not inherently increase. Were this lmited to a specific metal or commodity I would believe it, but it is very broad based and therefore can be traced to a monetary phenomenon (record low interest rates, loose lending practices, and increased consumer/government debt).
Is there anything about a lump of copper that identifies it as former pennies?
I wonder if you could contract with the US mint to mint new coins as you remove old ones from circulation. Pull Cu pennies and mint Zn ones ;)
Arbatroge baby!
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
I says, replace them with plastic chips.
Now I definitely have no reason to visit the US. I only went so I could collect change and melt it down at home...
And introduces the desire to clip. Back when coins were made of silver and gold, people used to trim the edges of coins, keep the clippings and then pass the coin on at face value.
DECUS ET TUTAMEN is written around the milling on the edge of a pound coin. Decoration, and protection. The milling is there because, historically, it would have revealed that a coin had been clipped. But I imagine modern counterfeiters would be able to melt down a gold coin, extract a little profit margin, and then re-stamp it with the very same design but imperceptibly smaller. While you can embed a whole lot of clever printing tricks and watermarks in a paper note, there's a limit to how well you can stamp metal and not expect the fine details to wear away.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
"This is the financial equivalent of being surprised that 40% of all sick days are taken on Monday and Friday. "
Your analogy is flawed. While Monday and Friday represent 40% of the work week, there is nothing that statistically implies that the distribution of sick days over the work week is even (20% per day). It could be 40% of all sick days occur on Monday and Friday, but it may very well be 90% or 0%. Personally, I would think it would be higher than 40%, due to proximity of those days to the weekend, therefore I would be *very* surprised to find out that what you said is true.
therefore I would be *very* surprised to find out that what you said is true.
So would I. It's just an old joke.
His analogy WAS flawed, but not in the way you said. You DO realize that people work on weekends, right? While you're relaxing and taking in a movie, you DO notice the human beings who are selling tickets and popcorn, right? Monday and Friday are a little less than 29% of the work week, including weekends. Furthermore, there's no consideration being given to the fact that while Monday and Friday are 2/7 of the days in a week that an individual could work, that there may be a statistical bias as to which of those seven days are most often worked by the most people... which could also lead to a bias in the taking of sick days.
That, and the fact (as has already been commented) that it's just an old joke ANYWAY, indicates that you should've thought your comment through a bit better.
The dollar being worth less and things costing more are exactly the same phenomenon.
.5lbs of copper, then we can assume (from our limited data) that the dollar has weakened AND copper has gone up in value, which are two seperate phenomenon.
Worth less what though? If $1 buys 10 potatoes or 1 lb of copper today, and then next week it buys 9 potatoes or
By the way, nickles are 75% copper.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
The dollar being worth less and things costing more are exactly the same phenomenon. The value of the metals did not inherently increase.
The value of metals DID increase relative to other commodities. So the parent post is right to say that it is a combination of a general decline in the value of the Dollar and an increase in the price of Zinc and Copper.
I like my beverages with warning labels!
NO TEXT
your Missing the real point ..
..
.. the US dollar is going to tank and take the Empire with it ..
..
..
.. through out the rest of the world ..
..
..
.. currently it is about $300,000
.. it debt with america and it is all over ..
.. minus the house of saudi of course .. beginning to trade in Eruo's
..
.. and they are both about to meet their end ..
.. equal to less than 6% of the worlds population .. numbers do and will rule ..
..
..
.. allow 8% of the rest of us a 35%(royal court) share of the wealth .. to keep the other 90% of us brainwashed and from taking a democratic share of the wealth from the 2% ..
.. the politicians .. the judges .. the lawyers .. the false educators .. the movie-makers .. the military .. the police .. ETC.
.. there can and will be no other equality of any kind .. ensuring a continual global state of WAR=We Are Right ..
.. no .. but all human beings are worthy of equal treatment and opportunity ..
.. not 50% + 1
america and its $ are dying
The old saying goes "not worth the paper its printed on"
the US dollar is not even worth the materials that it is made of
the things that have help america milk wealth from the rest of the world for decades are going away
it must now import 75+% of it's energy demands
it is losing is position as the black-market currency of chose
it is losing it's power (by demand of the US) as the oil reserve currency in the world
it will lose it place as the standard for calculating the valuing foreign debt
pre 9/11 per person share of the US debt was about $40,000
all china has to do is write off as a bad debt
or the rest of OPEC
and/or ETC.
america is really nothing but the proxy of the Holy Roman Empire
an over valued player on the world stage
REV 18:11 "and the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore:"
the LAW
a Judaeo-Christian conspiracy designed to control the world and the common man
the 2%(ruling Class) of the people who control 50% of the wealth
the royal court
without economic equality
are all human-beings equal
democracy = the common man being in control of his own life
The ancient Spartans used low-value, heavy iron money. They despised mercantile living and wanted to discourage it. It also made bribery more difficult.
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
In Australia we did away with 1c and 2c coins sometime ago, which has made a lot of Common Sense.
For Example when you go to the Supermarket, you bill isnt going to be $2.53 is more likely to be $102.53 which we round to $102.55, its just an accepted thing.. 1&2 go down to 0, 3-7 round to 5, 8&9 round up.
We Dont need to carry these poxey little coins, and soon we will see the 5c removed from circulation. Its no problem.
Maybe the US Government should look at no longer minting below 10c and apply rounding, eg 1-4 down to 0, 5-9 up to next 10.
It seriously does not make sense to make cents.
Darren
This reminds me of an article on wikipedia about Hyperinflation that I was reading yesterday. It has an image of a German woman feeding her stove with banknotes because the burning power of the notes is greater than the burning power of the wood that she could buy with the money
www.shortman.com.au - top shorted stocks on the ASX
Are you claiming the value of a dollar has decreased by a factor of 4 in the last three years the value of copper to increase by a factor of 4?
While you are right that slippage of the dollar relative to other currencies will lead to increases in base metal prices in dollar terms, this clearly cannot be the only factor or the primary factor moving those prices, given what we've observed in the last few years. While the value of copper in some abstract sense may not have changed, clearly its price in real terms did (not to mention nominal terms), and that will apply in basically ever currency.
So, basically... your an idiot.
.. why did the depression happen almost 2 decades AFTER?
The Federal Reserve (est: 1913) -caused- The Great Depression (1929) If it "prevented it"
Before 1913 business were expanding on profit alone, not on loans.. so in other words business were so successful that they didn't need to seek extra funding to expand. How exactly is that a bad thing? How do you account for America becoming the richest nation on earth, rivaling any other nation in only 100+ some short years? The reason is.. we had true economic freedom, a debt free money system and an abundance of resources. We went from having virtual nothing (except a huge debt to France) to being the richest nation in the world "basically" overnight.
But it has little to do with a Gold Standard.. The problem is really Fractional Reserve Banking. Artificially creating money from nothing to fund economic growth creates a system that can not sustain itself. It causes the poor to get poorer by taking loans and the rich to get richer by issuing loans. Its so simple a child could understand it.. its shocking that a country that prides itself on being "smart" can't grasp this..
Fractional Reserve Banking and the Federal Reserve are not only wrong they are evil. (If you conciser a slow and steady system of theft and slavery evil.. some people like that sort of thing.)
I need a slashdot account so someone will read this..
In a hundred years:
Can I still wipe my ass with bills or do I have to use the more expensive toilet paper I hear people talking about?
Full Tilt
American nickels have little nickel in them. Which isn't bad, as nickel can be carcinogenic.
Canadian nickels had (have?) enough nickel in them that they will stick to a magnet. Nickel and Iron are both attracted to magnets.
Pennies are made of zinc, not copper except it's coating which is minimal. Haven't for a while. I don't think the other coins have a significant copper content.
When Niven is due credit.
I think that "stick it to the man" comment put 2c of coffee up my nose.
This is the financial equivalent of being surprised that 40% of all sick days are taken on Monday and Friday.
;)
That's simply not true. I take 100% of my sick days on Monday and Friday
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
well just according to the us government Statistics CPI, the US dollar has lost 90-95 percent of it value. This should price gold today at around $800. Of course the CPI is manipulated to be lower than it really should be, so gold should really be higher than that. See Shadow Stats for more details on that. I can't find a graph now, but if you graph of the cpi you will see that it is fairly flat until 1913, when the Federal reserve was created on December 23rd 1913 (guess why on that date).
The Fed is not there to stop inflation but to create it!!!!! They are the biggest counterfeiters and fraudsters (also in control of the biggest ponzi scheme)in the world (along with all the other central banks), helping steal REAL wealth from the masses and giving it to the banks, who receive the newly created high power money first. People know that communism didn't work because the central planners could not work out what was needed. Well what makes you think the "central planning" Federal Reserve can do any better. Finally with the Federal Reserves role as managing the currency as well as policing the banks is like a fox guarding the hen house.
Finally the average life of a fiat currency is about 30 years, the US dollar in its current form is about due for demise.
Under what authority does the Treasury Department claim to be able to pass a regulation which is a penal statute? I am not saying agencies/departments of the executive branch cannot promulgate regulations. For example, the DEA can, with approval of the attorney general, decide to make a substance a controlled substance, which would then be illegall to possess, etc. But I do not see any statute that lets the Treasury Department (in which the Mint resides) decide that doing something with coins will be punishable by up to 5 years in prison. Where is the enabling statute? Such a broad declaration sure seems like a separation of powers issue; it is for Congress to decide that people can't melt down coins. In addition, I cannot find this proposed regulation anywhere. Not in the federal register http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/index.html or at regulations.gov. Can anyone find the text of this proposal? It will say under what authority the TD claims to ban melting.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
No Canadian coins have any metal with intrinsic value in them any longer. There was an uproar in the Numismatic community awhile ago, I think within the last year, because the Royal Canadian Mint withdrew ALL the old coinage and replaced it with plated steel coinage. It was actually a moneymaking proposition for the Mint, as the value they recovered from the older coingage for it's metals was more than the cost of the conversion to plated steel coins. The RCM did it without saying anything to anybody about the process. They simply pulled all non-steel coinage out of circulation as it passed through the banks. In the process, they withdrew and melted a lot of nice commemorative coins that had made their way into circulation over the last decade.
Metals - precious or otherwise - have been in a Bull Market for about 5 years now. The price of copper, zinc, nickel, silver, gold, etc has skyrocketed over the last several years and there appears to be no stop to it yet.
~ awaiting spiritual enlightenment ~
However, gold, copper, nickle are also commodities which can change in relative value, just like money or coffee. It just depends where the value goes. You could think of them as a cloud of things all moving up and down relative to one another. There is no fixed point other than one you choose, like gold or dollars.
At the moment, yes, the dollar is in freefall, demand for it is reducing and the supply is as high as it's ever been.
Deleted
It's a mistake to think that a weakening currency hits all commodities equally, it doesn't. It has a proportionately larger effect on items which have a high demand, oil, property etc. So the copper may be in higher demand than the potatoes. The second thing is that the increasing price effect ripples through the economy just like a wave, it doesn't hit everything at exactly the same moment. In particular when suppliers increase their prices, the business then has to pass the increase on.
It's the same phenomenon, you're just seeing the slightly different effects of demand and point in time.
Deleted
Actually one of my friends is the big one on this idea.
Step 1: Get access to a smelting plant on the US side of the border.
Step 2: Get access to a nearby smelting plant on the Canadian side of that same border.
Step 3: ??? (well, you can guess...)
Step 4: Profit!
Previously we had realized that the U.S. laws would probably let us get away with melting it all down on the U.S. side, but this change in laws just means back to Plan A, 'tis all.
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
Deleted
Lets face it - US coins, much like the paper money, are pretty unimaginitive. The State 25c series is Ok, and the new nickel designs are a fresh breeze in a stale room. A complete overhaul of US coin sizes and designs is long overdue, and very urgently needed. The shocking part is that certain politicians have the time to rather introduce a pet Bill (passed already) to effigize past Presidents on $1 coins over the next 17 years. Nobody wants the current $1 coins - never mind millions of new ones. The poor Post Office will land up stockpiling them. Imagine another 40-odd varieties of unwanted $1 floating about - yuck! So here is my idea: smaller, lighter coins all around. An Aluminum penny, light copper 5c, the current dime is Ok, a smaller quarter, scrap the $1/2 completely, and a maybe more practical bi-metal $1. Oh, and stop printing $1 bills if you want people to use the $1 coins.
Thank goodness that we got rid of the 'half cent' coin....
:-P
Imagine scrounging up 200 of those to make a dollar...
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
That can't be accurate for all metals. For instance, about 3 months ago I purchased a bar of silver. The last time I checked the silver was worth about 20% more than what I paid, not bad because I am using the commodity price and I paid a premium over that price plus shipping when I bought it. Real inflation is bad and certainly is higher than the so called 'rate of inflation' numbers, but the dollar did not lose 20-25% of its value in the past 4 months!
When I type in 1945 and 2005 into http://www.westegg.com/inflation/, it shows an inflation of about a factor of 10. Given I don't think they had 1/10 of a cent in 1945, what the hell do we need with either of these stupid coins now? If it were up to me, I'd get rid of the quarter too and use the more sensible 1, 2, 5 progression of the Euro. So we can keep the dime as is, come up with a new design for 20 cents , 50 cents, 1 dollar and 2 dollar and then redesign the paper bills (5, 10, 20, 50, 100) to be telescoping in length as they should have been this last go around.
Dara Parsavand
Sorry, you're mistaken. If you'd demonstrated any sort of perpensity for looking things up, you'd notice that over the past 8 years the price - or rather, the inherrent value - of precious and semi-precious metals have been climing an increasingly rapid rate for (oh) the last 5+ years (I can't immediately recall). This has been particularly marked in the the last year and a half to two years.
This is mostly contributable to three factors, as near as I can tell:
1) China's increasing industrialization, modernization, and militarization
2) India's economy flourishing
3) Static, or even dwindling, supplies
I know this partially because I've researched it a bit, but also because I purchase a fairly large amount of goods with high quantities of copper and zinc - loaded firearm cartridges, which are composed of copper, brass, and lead (as well as gunpowder). Prices in this industry have gone up (I'd guess) close to 100% in the last two years, and there's been some supply problems as well.
I've also heard from those in the construction business who say it's become necessary to keep guards on construction sites, or revise the way they're constructing buildings: people are breaking into job sites and ripping out all the copper wire from partially-built buildings, something that can and does cost the contractor tens of thousands of dollars.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
In case you're wondering like me why this wasn't already against the law, I looked it up and the relevant section of US code appears to apply only to bills and banknotes. I guess this also explains why those tourist-trap penny presses are also still around.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Sorry, you're mistaken. If you'd demonstrated any sort of perpensity for looking things up, you'd notice that over the past 8 years the price - or rather, the inherrent value - of precious and semi-precious metals have been climing an increasingly rapid rate for (oh) the last 5+ years (I can't immediately recall). This has been particularly marked in the the last year and a half to two years.
Your statement supports what I said in that it is happening to many metals, and the fact that it is accelerating does not contradict it. I've invested in platinum/gold/silver/copper for about 7 years now. But beyond metals, look at oil, lumber, sugar. Look at the price of homes. Look at milk. It may not hit everything at exactly the same time because economies are not instant feedback loops, but it is a monetary phenomenon that is happening across the board. About the only place it isn't happening is in wages and that is because of globalization.
And yes, it is gaining speed.
Coins are not legal tender, so those laws don't apply.
OK, a copper penny is worth 2cents... but the cost of sorting pre 1982 pennies and melting them is probably more than a penny per penny, right?
That means the enterprise of melting old pennies probly isn't worth it, yet.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
Is it my imagination, or is kdawson putting out higher-than-average (for a Slashdot editor) non-nerdy news items over his tenure? Case in point: this post.
Copper is expensive and generally high-demand, but the penny is made primarily from zinc -- a less valuable and more abundant metal. Has the price of zinc behaved similarly recently?
;))
(I'm not a numismatologist or however you pronounce it, nor a commodities trader, but I know it could be a possibility. What's zinc used for, also? The only things that come to mind for me are US pennies and trace additives to breakfast cereals...
the dollar is extermely weak. not news to anyone who follows the currency markets. this is proof of inflation - inflation is a monetary issue, not an increase in proce for goods and services - that follows inflation as the market adjusts.
our current coins aren't really worth anything, anyway. too little metal. 1964 and earlier coins are 90% silver. silver is currently $13.76/oz. a quarter is a quarter-ounce, so a 1964 quarter is roughly $3.44 (might be less, -10% and maybe more for wear & tear). exchange your petty 1965+ funny money for the real thing, before silver is over $20/oz!
They are talking about the copper pennies, obviously.
To whom it may concern:
I must protest your OMFGROFLBBQ! My associates and I have concluded that the US MINT is suxx0rzzzz!!1!11
Sincerely,
John Q. Public
> outlaw the melting down or bulk export of coins
.25 and melt it in the middle of Main street to protest against the razing. Police arrests you and in the court you argue that melting must not be illegal, since this would mean you did not receive fair compensation, as your unlimited use property (farm) was replaced by limited use property (coins) - note there is nothing to ban you from burning down your own farm to express political protest, unlike coins. Therefore coins given to you in exchange for your farm house must be legal to melt down. Coin melt ban law is therefore unconstitutional. QED
This limit is clearly unconstitutional. Let's consider this specific scenario. You live in your farm in Nevada. Uncle Sam decides that Area51 needs to be enlarged, so they condemn your farm, send bulldozers to raze it and give you USD 1.327.859,25 in compensation.
You take the
I thought defacing (which included flattening coins under trains last time that was popular) money included melting them down? I seem to remember friends wanting to make jewelry by decorating clothing with coinage being told they had to use foreign currency, as drilling holes in US currency was illegal.
Lets mint all new coinage out of led and watch as the world gets even more crazy.
How lame is that?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Print more paper money to cover metal losses.
I'm a genius!
You mean:
1. Melt a penny
2. Repeat step 1 a billion times (formerly "???")
3. Form ingots
4. PROFIT!
The value of the metals did not inherently increase.
Yes it did. Copper is in worldwide shortage. Go do some research. This will get you started.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
No, they're not. Zinc is the primary metal component of a nickle as well these days (IIRC).
Quite simply, our currency, which is physically made of certain materials, has performed poorly compared to the value of those materials. A modern penny is currently worth nearly twice it's face value as scrap metal. An old-style copper penny hit that same point years back. Shortly before they switched to the modern composition, as a matter of fact.
...40% of all sick days are taken on Monday and Friday.
Hmm. I believe another shocker is that 20% of sick days are taken on Tuesdays. 20% on Wednesdays. and 20% on Thursdays. For a grand total of... 100%! Oh noes, 100% of sick days are taken between Mondays and Fridays.
lolz
But, again, there's no such thing as a copper penny, not since the 1950s or so...
From 1962-1982 pennies were 95% copper. Those pennies are worth over $.02 in metal. And yes, zinc is getting pricey as well.
Does anyone else here that weird noise? It sounds like - no - it can't be... an airplane flying over my sofa, so it must be...
the sound of the joke flying over your head!
(Sorry.)
Pretty soon we won't need to worry about coins being melted etc...The Amero is comming !! Talk about not legal tender... http://www.amerocurrency.com/