Slashdot Mirror
Music While Programming?
BubbaDoom writes "In our cubicle-ville, we have programmers intermixed with accounting, customer support and marketing. As programmers, it is our habit to put on our headphones and listen to our portable music players to drown out all of the noise from everyone else. The boss recently sent an email just to the programmers demanding that we do not use our music players at work because he thinks it distracts us from our jobs and causes us to make mistakes. Of course, we've explained to him that prattle from the other people is much, much more distracting, but he insists his policy is the right one. What is the Slashdot community's experience with music at work for programmers?"
Without music at work there won't be any more programmers, the issue will be moot
Well I can definitely work better listening to music instead of the noise my co-workers produce.
Higher than a crack whore after a ship comes into port.
Music to overwhelm the other crap noises in ANY office is not only beneficial, it can be necessary when you hit the zone.
Thats bad. Your boss has no say in how you code but if it performs, scalable, extendable, secure and follows teams' coding norms.
I for one though don't like listening to music while coding.
Your boss has zero rights to tell you what you can listen to at work. Assert your human rights.
As long as the material isn't disturbing anyone else or offensive to anyone in the work environment, and how could it be if you listen with headphones, you are within your rights to listen to music as you choose.
If they are not satisfied with the quality of the work from the programmers they can address that as an orthogonal issue.
Claw back your rights from your totalitarian fuddy duddy boss. Take no guff from that kind of fool.
Of course, always make sure your professional. For example, when someone approaches your desk to speak to you make sure you pay attention setting aside your music.
You are there to get work done, not be controlled in every aspect of your life.
i think it really depends on your working environment.
in your example; you mention that the development team is intermingled with sales, marketing, accounting - those guys can be on the phone 24/7 and i think you are 100% correct that the team will be distracted by the ambient noise from the other people. however i don't think slapping on headphones is the solution; music is also a distraction; you should be thinking about the problems and coding rather than focusing on the deep beats of the music :) i think what you need to do is identify with your boss that there is ambient noise from the other divisions of the workforce; and request to be moved or isolated into an area where you wont hear them. most development teams i know prefer an open plan; you should work together and not sit in isolation in a cubicle - thats just stupid. as a technical manager myself; we move the sales and marketing guys to one side of the office and the development team to the other side - our office is designed well for this purpose.
I find that music is fine as long as your mind doesn't focus too much on it. If I listen to similar music long enough it becomes a bit like breathing; it's there but I don't really notice it. It's actually quite odd; if my mind is properly defocused, I can listen to a mix containing 10 songs, all of which I know, and then be unable to pick more than half of them after the fact!
As for benefits, I'm not sure; I think it keeps me from going insane, which is probably a good enough reason.
Though sometimes when I have to focus really hard on something very difficult to visualize, I end up having to turn off the music.
Asshole of a boss I have to say. Fine, if other people were getting distracted by the overflow from your headphones it's an issue but otherwise he is being a micromanaging dick.
Could be much worse - he could have listened to your argument and installed a lousy PA system playing elevator music.
Your boss is a retard.
Yeah, sure your headphones don't leak, but other people's do. And I'm not running around buying headphones for everyone. Why should I change, they're the ones who suck!
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I quite often just wear ear-canal headphones without music as they can be very effective in blocking out ambient noise. Tell your boss that's what you do too, how are they going to know.
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
Find a way to measure relative productivity, and relative error rates, for before and after you had to stop using music.
Use objective facts to show your boss what a twat he is.
I had this problem in 1976 or so. In the end the boss is just a dick with control issues.
I am a programmer also -
If they said that to me at work I would quit ... as simple as that.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
MILTON I, I told Bill that if Sandra's going to listen to her headphones while she' working, I can listen to the radio while I'm collating - MILTON I enjoy listening to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.
What is slashdot?
I am pretty sure, that the official reason is not the real reason. My best guess is that other employees have complained about the privilege of the programmers (listening music while working). Since your boss knows that giving this reason would create dissent, he has choosen the quality issue as official reason. That is the reason why discussing the pretended reason will not make him change his mind. I have seen this happening a hundred times... humans are so petty. CU, Martin
My experience with listening to music at the workplace has been more positive than negative. Only one employer (NEC) actively prohibited listening to personal music, while others allowed it. One other employer in particular (Epson) even had music streamed non-stop over a PA. (Granted, when management realized more people were listening to personal players instead, they discontinued the use of the PA.)
surely you're going to code better if what ever you do hear is pleasing to you.. Throw in a pair of noise-cancelling headphones so you can have the music on whisper-quiet and you're set.
I generally let my team do whatever they like so long as the work gets done to a good standard.
I would start to look to a variety of studies that point classical music towards increased concentration etc.
If that does'nt work then just let the edict wash over you. In a few weeks he will have forgotten about this and moved on to something else. If you make a big fuss over this then he will dig his heels and and police it more fervently.
in the long run, we're all dead anyway.
When I put on electronic music, my productivity is at least doubled.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
...I don't buy the distraction argument. If you need to concentrate to code, it's fine. If you need to deal with the phone though, I'd appreciate you keeping the volume low enough to hear the ring (and yes, some people prefer to talk rather than email - mainly because it actually gets a result)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_multitasking
I have mixed feelings about this report. Many programmers like to go off into their own world when they're programming, and music can assist with this. However dealing with people in that state can be a serious pain. All in all, I reckon it's better to let the programmers have their music. Plus when you clap them on the shoulder they jump about a foot in the air.
The burden of proof should be on your boss to show that he's not just talking outta his ass, and that he has some study or another to back up his case.
For me, I don't know what I'd do without my music now. I used to work without, and it's far, far better for my mood (and therefore my code) if I have something to listen to.
I've heard bosses and professors before say that if you're listening to music, then you're not 100% focusing on your studying/work. In an environment where its perfectly silent, then I can see how music can be distracting. However, most of us work in an office where there are cubicles with people within earshot talking about work or talking to other people on the phone. The problem with that is that people talking is very erratic. Pitch and volume changes unpredictably and those unpredictable changes suddenly distract me from my work. On the other hand, the music I have playing is, for the most part, music that I've heard numerous times. On top of that, there's a consistent "flow" to the music. It drowns out the distracting random noise and provides some constant noise that lets me focus on my work.
I think you should man up and tell your boss that no, he is NOT correct. I think any given person is usually in a better position to know what distracts them.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I like music, and when it's on, I can't help but listen to it. That means that while music is playing, I can't concentrate on reading a book, let alone write code. This applies to all but the most ambient styles of music. And a drone doesn't help me work either. If I thought all programmers were like me, I'd ban headphones too.
But, we're all different, and I know some people do their best work when zoned out behind their headphones.
It sounds like this management decision comes from someone who doesn't realise how much people vary.
It would make sense to provide programmers with an environment where they can escape prattle when they need to, as well.
...Wall To Wall Counseling (See FM 22-102 for more information). Seriously, this is something that you're going to have to address in numbers; either get everyone to sign a petition, or have a few of the younger guys meet the boss in the parking lot for a "Team Building One-on-One".
"When I am king, you will be first against the wall..."
For your boss to try to dictate how you work like this is a form of micromanagement which demonstrates distrust.
Brush up your resume, in my experience managers who act in this fashion tend to get worse, not better. Working there is going to be an exercise in frustration. That said, a company is wholly within its rights to expect something like this of you. But by doing so they make themselves less competitive and attractive. Maybe they can get away with that for now, but in doing so they're destroying loyalty and directly contributing to a Dead Sea Effect - when the economy picks up the decent developers are going to evaporate, and the company will be left with a brackish collection of sub-par developers.
As to the original question, I find that the right music selection can really help with my code quality and speed. If I'm really ramped up on what I'm working on, a good fast paced techno, industrial, or otherwise highly rhythmic repetitious and fast paced music can contribute to a mental wave to surf. If I feel like my project pace is overly frenetic, there are too many expectations, and there's just really no way I'll meet all the obligations in the time allowed, something slow and soothing can bring down the blood pressure levels and let me concentrate on my work better.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
If your boss is responsible for both the programmers and the non-programmers, he/she may have other personnel related issues. Others may perceive it as unfair, and have complained, making their problem your problem.
From an arguing standpoint, make the case that you need to concentrate. Compare it to taking a hard math test. Most people can related to that, if not programming. If they're skeptical, ask if it's ok to wear earplugs or white-noise earphones. From a politics standpoint, you've presented a problem and solutions--they get to choose--managers love that stuff. If the you go forward with the earphones, you may not have the music you want (yet), but it also means the manager has to explain to the non-programmers that 'you're different, but it's ok because you make the computers go, so they're going to ignore you.' partial success--the office knows that you need to concentrate and need things in your ears to assist.
Let that sink in for a month. Then ask if productivity dropped. If it didn't, ask for to listen to your music and say it helps. By then you should have gotten past the 'programmers are different' memo to the bean counters, and now you're trying something to make yourself more effective. If they go for it, just make sure you get more done.
OR
If that's too arduous of a path, just release the manager's inbox to the company. If the climatologists have skeletons in their boxes, I'm sure your boss does too.
It does seem a rather ott response from the boss.
Our's tried a similar thing, but was slightly more reasonable and said one ear only...ie so you could still respond. luckily that seems to have been dropped now.
I would suggest you find out if there is an underlying reason, maybe he's had complaints of people ignoring the phones or something.
----- I refuse to have an argument with an unarmed person
Our office is one large open space without any cubicles whatsoever. The developers used to be mixed with accounting, sales, etc but this was abandoned after complaints starting to pile up. Now the developers all sit together in one corner of the office, which is an improvement although you can still here some slight prattle from the other guys.
Our music policy is somewhat relaxed though. A while back me and a co-worker of my won an iphone dev competition, where the first prize was a speaker set that we installed at the office. I can play music on this, providing it's not too loud. There basically is only one woman in accounting who can't stand music, but we either ignore her complains or we wait till she is in a meeting or something before turning on the music.
Headphones are okay too at our place. The guy who's sitting next to me turns up the volume so much though, that we can all enjoy what he's listening to. No need to use headphone really, he might as well use the speaker set :P
Ask him if foam earplugs (nonmusical, just noise-dampening) are acceptable. I know music helps achieve flow state, but even the reduction in noise level might help somewhat. This is a good test also, if he says no to foam earplugs then you know it wasn't really about the music. And it may penetrate his pointy-haired mind that the surrounding noise level is really a problem.
I never had any problems regarding this issue. What might be a solution is to use earplugs. A colleague of mine uses earplugs when he is doing "serious" work (as he says) and he seems to do just fine. It's just a little bit funny that you have to ask him everything twice, as he won't hear it the first time and first has to remove the earplugs -- ad you don't know beforehand if he is currently wearing his earplugs as you can't see them (at least not from two meters away). The earplugs have the psychological advantage of making other people disrupt you less often: It takes some time till you remove the earplugs and they have to ask their question twice, so they think twice if the effort of this is worth the answer -- Dummy-questions good-bye!
I assume, since he's a boss, that he has a private office ? If that's the case, offer him to come do some cerebral, non-social work (not on the phone, more like writing a report or something) for a half day in one of your cubicles, and judge for himself if he really thinks he wouldn't have worked better being isolated from the chatter.
Stress out to him that it's not like you're buying 10 new CDs a day and listening intently to them while on the company's time, but just whiting out very distracting noises so that you can focus on your job.
Show him how you come to work with your music already chosen, and spend 0 time on it (I can spend hours building a playlist :-p )
Be careful to NOT discuss music with you coworkers for a while, nor visit any music sites...
Try and find examples of companies that he will judge well-run (not geeky nerdy ones, more in his frame of reference - Google, MS... don't count) that do allow music for programmers.
If all that doesn't work, try and work out an agreed playlist / music genre, or just wear earplugs/muffs ? That would suck, though.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
...sing. Loudly.
I find that if people are talking, or if a phone rings, etc., I easily lose my train of thought. The worst thing is when people in the office are having a very loud teleconference. Music helps to drown it all out. Especially music I am familiar with. Personally I listen to Lemon Jelly, Death Cab for Cutie or anything tagged "Liquid Funk" on last.fm.
/. poll: "What genre of music do you listen to when coding?"
I think there should be a new
Wow, that is utter bullshit.
Your boss must have just went to a general productivity conference and someone had statistics for cashiers and other people who deal with the public and found that they perform poorly when mixed with music.
Maybe you should ask that marketing guys stop telephone, because it breaks concentration ?
&, if birds had radios in their butts, there would be music in the air at all times.
i fail to see how koders should have special treatment over other employees, as it makes no sense. or is it nonsense?
Normally, music, other peoples stupid jokes, shoulder taps, and office noise, they all annoy and distract me while I am analyzing a concept or a technical problem. I hate to put music between my ears when I'm thinking.
But once I know exactly what to code and how to code it, it is more fun and even more productive, to add a soundtrack to that "roller coaster" coding - until something breaks unexpectedly. Then the soundtrack stops again.
If my boss wants me to put away the headphones, I keep on nodding to the music in my head.
If.
He doesn't, because he knows me.
I hope your boss knows you too.
--------
* Sigh *
When working with music on, I've found that whatever the style of music I listen to (from ambient to afrobeat to folk rock to heavy metal), it tends to put me into a trance-like state, where I am able to do good designing or a lot of routine coding work, or debugging, which makes me much more productive. But what I've also noticed is that every kind of music sets a different working rhythm, so different kinds of programming work need a different type of music for the best results.
Nice ambient, lounge, trance for example, tend to be somewhat good for designing and implementing new stuff, or cracking hard debugging issues (i.e. they stimulate abstract thinking and imagination). Hard rock, afrobeat, drum'n'bass make it easier doing some routine coding (I mean, coding which is routine) and simple routine debugging and testing, increasing your raw productivity.
I have also found, that just putting on big noise-cancelling headphones decreases the amount of effort needed to concentrate, while still allowing you to quickly respond to anyone asking you about anything. This is detrimental though, since closed earphones tend to make your ears more susceptible to catching cold, when you're using such headphones too much, something I have found out myself the hard way.
I've met surgeons who work to music.
They ask the patient what music they would like to hear as they are going under.
Everyone is happy and smiling and it really lightens up what can be a brutal experience.
Just a hobbiest here with a note that other may find interesting.
In order to distract myself from my own non-programming thoughts
I tend to play a mix of high-Tempo Classical music (particularly Vivaldi
and Beethoven) and Heavy Metal (mostly elaborate instrumentals).
Rock and even some _very_ well written pop music also work, but not
as effectively.
If I don't have this going my mind tends to wonder towards other
distractions that I have on my machine.
First off, the programmers should have offices.. you need personal space and no distractions from others to design programs and crank out code.
But hey, your company has programmers in cubes next to accounting people.. obviously you're not at a software company.
It depends on the type of programming I am doing. During heavy design or debugging, I tend to turn the music down or even off. At other times, I have the design firmly in my head and am almost just transcribing it. At times like that, a little quiet music helps to drown out the surrounding noise. Other engineers in my office have their own methods of tuning into or turning off the music. Some have no music while others use headphones rather consistently. In other words, every programmer is different. Whether you have a particular editor that you work best with, a particular chair or keyboard, or whether you listen to music never, sometimes or always, it is getting the job done that matters. Luckily, I work where my performance is monitored, not my individual selections that allow me to get my particular brand of performance optimization.
I find this strange, because where I work its ok to have personal media players and the like, its even allowed to have a radio playing (even for the people in the call center!) I find it amazing were allowed that much freedom. I am off in a side office with a group of people, and mainly the rule is it can be played out loud as long as theres no curse words (music has to essentially be G rated, and non irritating to others, how radio passes I have no idea)
Weve had the politics thing of "why do they get to do that we cant!" come up. We would eat at our desks because we worked through lunch, while people in the call center were not allowed. They decided to enforce it on us anyways because that was what was "Fair". Productivity went down by 30-1hour per person per day, because everyone started taking lunches, management got pissed. Too bad. It became a thing of waiting out the complainers. Wait 1 month, and just start doing it again anyways, or if your boss is the reasonable type, clear it with him. 1 month after our ban we just ask the boss "has enough time passed that we can start doing this till enough people complain again" and the answer was "yeah sure". Generally the type of people that are going to complain in that manner to actually get a boss to enforce the rule wont last long, or it was a random walkthrough by a higher up that wont come through again for a while.
Use your remaining time before the company goes belly-up to find a new job.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You've got two choices: Sit there and take it like a man, or start meddling with the drones. Wait a month or so before you start meddling with the drones.
Eventually, morale at your business will be zero. You will have the insight that one should mind their own business, and hopefully someone else will, too.
Music occupies part of my brain and keeps it busy. If I don't listen to music.... I get distracted so easily it's crazy.
If I have to listen to the inane prattle of the dipshits around me discussing the scamming of food stamps or what so and so's dysfunctional wife/brother did the last week, I tend to make a lot of mistakes because it's irritating.
Needless to say, I've found self-employment to be infinitely more rewarding than slaving for someone who doesn't 'get it'.
When a manager is intimidated by his/her direct reports, they often focus on trivial and insignificant issues. It allows them to boost their egos while exerting their dominance over you without actually making the wrong decision on things that are actually important. And, unless you work for the military, there is a very heavy line drawn between what a manager can and can't tell you to do if it isn't already in your employee handbook. A vegetarian boss couldn't make all his/her employees eat only vegetables at work, the same can be applied to music. Particularly in this case where you've got a tradition of acceptance and so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone's work. You could also throw a passive strike and have everyone call in sick during crunch/deadline time. But that would require a solidarity that most IT folks don't share (unfortunately, as an IT union would rule the world, literally, in about 24 hours).
Headphones are almost standard issue at my office, and I cant really work without them. Since I work for a large ISP and our backbone is a router or two away, streaming over the Internet is more common then portable music player. In fact if there was ever a policy about music players in the office it would be more about a security risk of having a bunch of USB storage devices with gigs of space around the office then people making mistakes while coding to Lady Gaga.
In our office people have a habit to work outages on speaker phone. When there is a large enterprise wide outage there multiple people on the same bridge on speaker phone. For those of us that don't deal with support, the only alternative is to block out the noise and communicate over IM with the person sitting next to you. I find that it keeps my in my happy development bubble with my eyes on my monitors, and hands on the keyboard.
Your boss sounds like a control freak. However, you are mixed in with other groups where listing to music could be an issue. They probably don't want to give the impression that the developers have special privileges. This is probably more the case if there is a large difference in pay.
I have programmed drunk, with not enough sleep, in my dreams (thats code that always run but is written in the most volatile material), angry, happy, hot, ...everything. I have programmed in enviroments with HEAVY noise around, not problem. But I can't work with music, and much less with radio of people talking. My mind is distracted by sound (information) that has a message. To be honest, I like programming in the night, with zero sounds. I like the silence much more than music.
-Woof woof woof!
The biggest problem I have with people wearing headphones is that if you want to ask them just a quick question it involves waving your hands around to gain their attention and then wait for them to take their headphones off. It just hinders communication.
Your manager is an idiot.
I simply cannot program in the same room as someone else without music: ideally using sound-cancelling headphones.
Get a white-noise track and when "reminded" about the new rule, just answer that it's not music but a necessary and vanilla-flavored tool to avoid distractions and be more productive. "Think of it like high-tech earplugs—only better." Demonstrate the track if they need convincing. Then either actually use the white noise track (once you get used to it, it does a few extra brain cells available compared with music), or go back to enjoying your previously scheduled music programming (minus the desk-tapping, humming, or spontaneous burst into song to add the much-needed additional vocal accompaniment to what used to be an awesome part of the song before you started belting it out off-key).
If your music player is of the Apple persuasion capable of such things, get the app: White Noise [iTunes link to the light version]
My position on this is that the manager is a troll and is a control freak.
I listen to a very large collection of music & podcasts at work.
If I had a manager actually state that as a position with the particular environs you mentioned I would be demanding a number of things:
1) segregation of the programmers to a more isolated area
2) segregation of anyone who is in sales to a basement office with sound proofing
3) scientific studies that the manager in question was not beaten up and stuffed in lockers in high school
Now while much of what I'm writing above may be construed as flame bait, I just posit it for laughs.
Seriously though, music and/or podcasts are some of the mechanisms I was using to deal with either utter silence (because my dev team was fairly isolated) or high volume sales people (after consolidation of the office employees after 1st round of layoffs).
yeah, music is fine. i find that heaphones are more distracting than through speakers. but others are then distracted by the speakers so it can be a trade off.
dont eat yellow snow
When I'm really coding I don't hear the music.
A few weeks ago I had album shuffle on, using laptop speakers in office when someone came in.
It was half way through my child's nursery rhymes and I hadn't even noticed.
I quickly shut it off - I guess my guest thought my taste in music was a little strange.
It sounds like your boss isn't a programmer, otherwise they wouldn't even be making their assertion. sigh...
:-)
So your boss claims when you listen to music you're collectively distracted and you make more mistakes. You should then, since you take anything that can improve the quality of the code seriously, hold this meta-contribution to the corporate codebase to the same standard as anything else - in other words, require it be tested and verified before committing it.
While from your standpoint this is likely to get you what you want, since it's very unlikely that your boss has anything factual to back up their position, it's also the most respectful way of considering your boss' potential contribution. "OK, even though you're not a skilled programmer, we'll still accept and treat your contribution just as if you were. Now here's the level of quality we all expect and demand from everything we put in our product - does what you intend to add actually meet the standards our company requires?"
And this also gives them the possibility of showing you how they're right, and for whatever reason the programming group is distracted and error-prone. Even if music isn't the immediate cause (perhaps more of a late-stage symptom of some other systemic problem), that would still be very helpful to know.
Of course, if you're just a bunch guys sitting around slinging code, you're gonna be SOL in this if you don't have any structure, testing and metrics to your development - and if you don't then your boss might strictly speaking be mistaken but indirectly be life's way of helpfully prompting you to get your act together.
Good luck improving your work environment. Rock out with your awk out!
Putting on your headphones from the management point of view is a way to put shield to external noise... but also a shield against collaboration, a shield from listening your colleagues.
It depends... it's just a matter of finding the right balance between concentration and collaboration.
If I see a group of 5 people with headphones I can state for sure that this is not a "TEAM"
1) there is a problem with noise: don't put a shield, solve the source problem. ...try it, and let me now if you can work in pairs with headphones :) ... but this should be an exception, not the rule.
2) you never work in pairs ?
3) OK, sometimes you really need to concentrate and work alone: then use headphones or move to a separated room/desk
However, put music in there, and my bain involuntarily starts to pattern match on the harmonies, chord progresions, etc., and I don't get to use all of my brain on the task I'm working on, because no matter how hard I try to keep it on task, it gets pulled away by the music. Listening to music for me seems to be necessarily a "foreground" task even if I attempt to put it in the "background" because my brain seeks patterns and it finds them in music, but not in random spoken audio. Based on how my brain reacts to music in headphones while I'm trying to do analytical work, I would not without anecdotal evidence to the contrary from colleagues believe that anyone could work with that cacophany going in their ears.
From talking to other engineers, I believe my preference for spoken audio rather than music is unusual but not necessarily rare.
This seems to be one of those things where it just depends on how your brain works. Maybe that can be explained to the boss? It's definitely not a one-size-fits-all thing, and I completely understand how someone could end up with his perspective. Time to widen his focus a bit, I think.
I rarely put on music while working, because I won't consciously hear it anyway while concentrated on work.
Often when finishing a task I would be surprised about "missing" a cool song I was waiting for. It played, but I didn't perceive it because I was too distracted.
ear plugs are your friend (well mine at least), takes the edge of the noise enviroment and I just love the sound of tinnitus
Headphones do not bother anybody else.
Tell your employer: if he has a problem with your work WITH OR WITHOUT headphones, to fire you. Otherwise, leave you the hell alone to do your work your way.
Robert M. Pirsig in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance said very clearly that seeing mechanics work with music in the background was the sound of a poor quality workshop. I've thought about this with regard to programming and I sway between needing total silence and needing music.
Pete Boyd
If your music is helping you to work by saving you from the distracting talk of other non-developers around you, then you have to convince your boss that:
1) The "prattle" is a problem
2) The headphones are the solution
For the problem, you'll have to find some evidence of this. One technique you could try is that if someone is talking when you're trying to program, politely ask them if they can keep their voice down (or else ask them to move to a meeting room for their discussion, depending on your office environment). If enough of you do this on a regular basis, then you'll hopefully get the other people in your office to be aware of the problem, eventually trickling up to your boss. The important thing is to be polite and do it such that you can make the others know that you're just trying to do your job. I'm not sure how well the programmers get along with the other groups but hopefully the relationship is good enough that you can get them on your side. If it's phone conversations (sales calls for example), maybe discuss this issue directly with the boss, explain that it does distract you (i.e. not "I want to listen to music to help me program" but "These sales calls make it hard for us to concentrate, how can we solve this?").
For solutions, you could suggest moving all the developers to a separate office, other part of the building, etc., so as to avoid/minimize the distraction (If the boss realizes he needs to spend money to do this he might change his mind).
Hopefully once the problem is clearly identified in the bosses mind, he might realize that just letting you use your headphones is the best (cheapest) solution.
Good luck!
Start making lots of mistakes to prove your point. :-)
I personally find that sometimes, when the right song or songs are on, I get into a groove and do much more work. As for accuracy, its probably about the same. Music more so helps with my productivity.
Take up singing loudly instead.
... otoplastics
I'll bet your boss was listening to music when he came up with that poor excuse for an idea.
Having worked in an open plan office I can tell you that eventually even management figured out that programmers need to not be disturbed, so they gave groups of 3..6 co-workers. Us privileged sysadmins even had one small fishbowl office to just the both of us... and a large amount of gear, of course. We even got locks on that door to cut down on laptop thefts and the door to the "server room", which again was full of gear and very noisy. But oh, were we privileged!
Your boss may very well feel he's juggling sentiments, but then again it's his job; your manager is supposed to work with the rest of the management team to get you the tools you need and keep the rest of the company off of your backs. Ask him what other things are driving this decision and whether he's willing to suffer a drop in programmer productivity for it, perhaps even starting a walkout. If he's any good he'll talk to you, and if not it's time to brush up the old CV.
The genre varies but one thing is important: no vocals! They always distract me (no matter what language). I mostly prefer smooth minimal techno or ambient electronica (e.g. Autechre or Aphex Twin). But for the sake of my coworkers I also switch to non-electronic genres, if required.
...and I'm sure Wally isn't taking this news well.
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
Ask for data to back up the assertion. if that doesn't work, ask for permission to wear your headphones while listening to white noise. No matter what,collect productivity data before and after to demonstrate the effect of the change.
Your Boss is insane. There is no hope.
as the great Python boys said, "Run away Run away"
I too work in a similar environment where the programmers are next to non-technical people, and in my experience background chatter is much, much more distracting than your favorite music playing on your headphones. I'm the type of person that needs absolute silence to work, so naturally I've tried every possible way to drown out people's voices, including playing music. Having music playing was not the ideal situation for myself, but it was certainly less distracting than the constant conversation mixed in with obnoxious laughter. I ended up buying a pair of gun range earmuffs and now wear them regularly in the office.
I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.
I prefer prattle. With music I can't write a line.
Take mufflers instead and have silence.
I used to work for a company where the boss laid down a similar law. Although after a year the policy became irrelvant because everyone ignored him/did it anyway behind his back, the real problem is that your management has no understanding of the needs and practices in software engineering... you're unlikely not to convince your boss unless you get senior managers to fight your corner.
Most likely, programmers at your will be company will be enduring a lot more management mistakes with regards to software engineering. If you want to grow as a software engineer, an organisation like that is probably not a good place to stick around. Find a place that has an engineering culture.
Not all music is suitable for coding. Some music helps, others doesn't. Not all tasks require 100% concentration. When working on a complex enough problem, I might switch off the music altogether and use earplugs instead. Sometimes I even just keep wearing my headphones but without music- I find it prevents my coworkers from asking questions because they assume I can't hear them. I think as a professional programmer I can judge which to use when better than my boss can. But with a pointy-haired boss like you seem to have, my guess would be that at your company there isn't any quality control implemented. Peer reviews, code reviews, blackbox testing, unit tests? If your boss is worried about quality, he should look at those first, *then* at the use of headphones. He'll have to pay up though- quality doesn't just happen by itself. It costs money to have a QA manager. I recall having a boss saying 'we have to test better', and that was the end of the meeting- and the end of any efforts that actually increased quality. Obviously, that boss was naive. That company went belly-up as well.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
Registration required but it is SAGE so we can only hope that they know what their about eh? :^)
The abstract seems to back what I suspect we all believe...
http://pom.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/33/2/173
Very hard to argue against.
How about addressing the real problem? The noise level in the office is distracting to the programmers. The music players are designed to dround out the noise. Request that the noise level in the office be reduced. No speaker phones. No conversations across cubicles, Meetings should be held in conferance rooms regardless of the number of people involved. The office should be treated like a library (Quiet Please).
So what you're saying is that the OP should get the boss to add free-roaming tigers to the cubicle landscape to provide the 10% distraction?
Excellent way to build trust between coworkers. Or simply get rid of annoying coworkers. ;-)
From "Rapid development", Steve McConnell, page 49. Table 3-1, summary of Classic Mistakes
People related mistakes:
1. Undermined motivation
6. Noisy, crowded offices
12. Politics placed over substance
Looks like your boss didn't read that, did he?
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
And it was purely because "other" people in the company (Fortune 100, big place) weren't allowed to listen to music because they had to listen out for the phone. He also didn't like that it looked like we weren't working as teams.
For me, music works because I have my best ideas when I'm not directly thinking about a problem - I have a very short attention span so music fills the gaps and stops me getting distracted onto something else.
--- Band: Joey Ultra
Your boss obviously doesn't know what your job entails.
Depending on the nature of the office babble, it easily distracts or annoys. There's no need for that. I for example get work done faster and better if i have the correct music at hand. Its my `fallback attention to keep me in the pace and not get slowed down or distracted. Only about 1 out of 5 days i prefer silence.
And then there's times that i just put on music simply to act as static noise to help me concentrate. Often only after half an hour i notice that im listening to the same 13 second jazz loop.
Dwell trough some of my habbits at http://last.fm/user/Barryke2
When crafting code i listen to everything from Tchaikovsky to Rammstein to St. Germain, and try to avoid most popular music.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
I literally cannot code without music, at all. If I don't have something to deflect my focus from the outside world, I will lose concentration and end up writing really disjoint code that I nearly always end up having to rewrite later. This becomes a problem when working on highly object-oriented projects, as I almost entirely lose track of the scope of different elements without something blaring in my ears. I'm not actually listening to the music at all, but just using the noise to shield myself from distractions. I'm sure I can't be the only one, does anyone else absolutely need music to code?
Try classic balads and instrumental music and keep away from pop culture songs.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
...such a rule being forced from the top downward would merely induce ridicule and subversion (not the SVN kind) in our team.
Being from Europe, the concept of cubicles already seems restrictive enough. I guess it's not as weird as in Japan where companies
more or less own their employee's lives, but I think US companies could surely learn from the European office ethics.
programing with music is a kind of attitude.
This type of decision is nothing more than a manager that doesn't know his role fixing a problem that doesn't exist. His higher ups didn't reverse him there is deep trouble in the fabric of you company.
I do a lot of work next to the sales team -- mostly that is not a problem as I am fairly able to tune out their prattle.
But something I really NEED to concentrate on something. I find that listening to white noise (ocean waves or something) quickly filters out the conversations around me.
I am completely unable to work with music on -- my preferred working environment is one of pure silence.
White noise. Tell your boss to pipe in a good quality white noise and you won't be able to hear anybody within 5 feet. My last office was like that and it made concentration in cubeville easy while still allowing intentional communication. My new office has no white noise and now I'm back to headphones if I can't find a vacant closed door office to squat in.
blast the Footloose theme.
If the boss makes idiotic decisions that destroy productivity, I think it is reasonable to be insubordinate.
[Without wishing to start a flame war, I've noticed that this blind allegiance to one's boss is very common in America. I have no idea why a people that so value their independence is so supine in the work place.]
As for music while coding, I've found dance music (or anything without lyrics - jazz or classical, but especially high energy dance) helps me concentrate.
--- "We've always been at war with Eastasia."
Music is calming! lets the brain flow naturally and so does the code!
Apart from programmers, everyone else in the company can be distracted and make mistakes.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
I can't code to music or to distracting noise, noise cancelling headphones work for me in the average office. What I absolutely must have music for is cooking or housework. Add a glass of red wine (or a joint in my younger days) and some relaxing music, then even the most mundane tasks are enjoyable.
My 'heavy rock lasagne' is definately an aquired taste. Do you guys who program to music find you code better when listening to heavy stuff or do you get into the zone by way of more relaxing sounds (classical or jazz)?
Evidence is the best argument. Track the number of mistakes you make without music. Compare with old number of mistakes you made with music. Present data.
It may be that the whole office is badly designed for effective, collaborative working. If you can help others in the office with their work, or quickly lean over to get their opinion of something you are doing, you are likely to be more productive. We have an open plan office arrangement, and I encourage people not to wear headphones because people wearing headphones aren't picking up on what others are doing.
There can be a ruthlessness to open plan (just see "The Apartment" movie from the 60s which shows people working like automatons in a huge open plan office space). However I think collaborative, knowledge-based work benefits from people being able to move around. Having your own desk and cubicle seems a bit wierd in this day-and-age. Isn't that the sort of command-and-control thinking that brought down GM?
In a larger office it can be great to have a quiet zone which you can retreat to do some serious thinking or uninterrupted work. As we don't really have that I guess headphones could provide that "cone of silence".
Cutting off my music would be like cutting off my air supply. Tell your boss to go f*** himself.
If all programmers were like you then the ban wouldn't be necessary, though a boss may not have such a thought.
Milton Waddams: I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven. 177 comments and I'm the first to post that?
And hire a new one that isn't so nit picky. The music I listen to while coding keeps me from being distracted by coworkers in other cubicles especially when they have people on a speaker phone and you can hear it from across the room.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
For about 6 months, I sat in a cubicle that faced a sales guy. As part of his job, he was on the phone about 6 hours a day, talking right at me.
My solution in the end was to go to a hardware store and buy some construction grade ear protection - the over the head, earmuff style that you see on people operating jackhammers. Cost me about 20 bucks, and almost completely drowned out everything around me. (They are about as good in an office setting as the bose noise cancelling headphones, and about 90% cheaper)
It also sends a clear message to those around you. When I had headphones on, people thought I was listening to music for enjoyment. When you put these things on, it sends a very clear STFU, I'm trying to think, message. (OK, it did feel a little juvenile, but after a few days, it was fine. People understood that I didn't hate them, I just needed some quiet, and this was the easiest way to accomplish it without sssh-ing everyone around me.)
As an alternative, I've actually found that even just having headphones on, but no music playing (assuming large, over the ear kind) is pretty effective as well. It drowns out some of the noise, and has the added benefit that people assume you can't hear them, so they don't talk to you. I actually spend about half of my day with earphones on that aren't playing a sound. When I'm doing something easy, I turn on the tunes, when I have to think, I turn them off but leave the headphones on.
If you spent the next week with the headphones on, but the cord clearly lying on your desk, unplugged, I think that might help your boss understand that the phones are not what he thinks they are for.
I usually work wearing close earphones and often don't actually have music playing. The phones do two things - reduce the volume of my coworkers babble and discourage them from talking to me. The discouragement effect raises the importance of the interruption from "some random thought just popped into my head" to "he needs to know this", which is about right. I think the reduction in distractions makes me more productive, and a review I did a couple of years ago tended to bear that out (I got sick of doing it after a couple of months so the reliability is not great).
My response to the ban would be to wear industrial hearing protection instead.
I think I read somewhere that music is OK, but lyrics basically have the same effect as chatting people, some part of your brain listens to and interprets the words. Unfortunately that uses language and logic skills that you also need while programming. So, stick to classical and other instrumental music and you should be OK. MUch better than chatting people in the background. Here in Europe, at least we have doors that can be closed :)
Fuck your stupid stupid stupid boss. You seems like working for a company that is not really interesting and you're not enjoying (that's the most important part of any job you do anytime for any money: big or small). If he is that idiot and prevents folks to enjoy their job (a big part of entire life, actually), then maybe you should just consider looking for better job, where boss is open minded and is not looking for a typical code-grinders in suits, wearing ties.
If I were you, I would start doing it right now.
Studies have shown (see Peopleware) that music is actaully detrimental to the creative processes necessary for good programming. I found it to be true as well, so I switched to an environmental sound machine (sounds of nature tyoe things) when I need to drown out the surrounding chatter. It made a noticable improvement in the speed and quality of my work. So, in this case, the boss is right!
Assuming that all of the programmers are in agreement, here is what you should do:
Let me emphasize that last point: the problem is not the lack of music. The problem is the noise. The solution you want is a separate room, or else a sound-proof partition in the current room. As you point out, the music is mainly to drown out the chatter. Get rid of the chatter, and the music is a non-issue.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Personally I feel music is essential when I'm coding (or doing anything requiring concentration) in a noisy environment.
It does need to be music you know very well though, as otherwise you *will* be distracted. With albums you know and love your brain knows what to expect and is comfortable with the audiable information it's receiving as there are no surprises. This then acts as a mask for the unpredictable noise around you. Listening to your music collection on shuffle/random is much more distracting than listening to it a complete album at a time as subconsciously you're always wondering which track is going to play next.
Listening to the radio is right out as you have no control of the music (or therefore the mood) and it will almost certainly be peppered with adverts and/or a DJ, and will therefore be more distracting than the general noise of even a busy office. The DJ's job is to engage the listener and the advertiser's goal is the same, so you are bound to have your attention repeatedly taken away from the task in hand. Had a colleague who used to listen to the radio on headphones and swore blind that it was no more distracting than music. Suffice to say he was significantly less productive than the rest of us and the attention to detail in his work was generally very poor, so despite being a potentially good developer he was eventually moved to a desktop support role.
One tip - if you have noise canceling headphones, these will allow you to listen to your music at a much lower volume and tend to block out or at least greatly reduce the low frequency and general (non-speech) office sounds around you. As you can now get such headphones which perform really well at a very reasonable price (I'm thinking of the Goldring NS1000 with a street price of around £50, instead of a £300 Bose set) they're a very good investment and would emphasize to your boss that it's all about blocking out the noise around you rather than enjoying your private music collection.
The boss is the boss - he sets the rules based on his understanding. So you need to help him understand reality.
Track your distractions. When you are distracted by support and marketing, make a note of when the distraction occurred and how long it lasted. At the end of the day, send a summary to your boss and the bosses of support and marketing. Get all the programmers to do likewise. Give the PHB ammunition with which to request a spatial re-org. Give yourself ammunition to respond to complaints about your (in)efficiency.
I've worked in a variety of environments over the past 24 years. I've never been told not to use headphones to listen to music. Good managers are more interested in results than in style. If this PHB is representative of management at your company, it's time to spiff up the resume and begin a job search. Your management is focussed on the wrong things - that will ultimately lead to bad times at your company (if the company is publicly traded, you might consider shorting it 8^).
linquendum tondere
Stop playing on slashdot and get back to work
- your boss.
Even worse: if it turns out that some of the people playing music do not own the copy they are playing, then the company could be held liable for that too. Maybe the boss should require that any music played must be played from the original distribution media and that the person playing it must be able to demonstrate that they have legitimately purchased it. That should tie up many more man-hours than the music creates in increased productivity.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
He doesn’t even know shit about psychology.
That’s like telling a child not to play, but to learn. Playing IS learning, dammit! It’s the ULTIMATE learning!
Why are there still these idiots out there who think a human being could just work 8 hours straight without mental pauses and relaxation? These are the same types who think they would get more done by sleeping less!
Isn’t it, like, scientific knowledge from at least 50 years ago, that the source of that mental power to do anything is that relaxation and sleep??
I once worked shortly at a software development company that only had a slow DSL connection and therefore did not allow music steams. Also the boss wanted quiet rooms. So I quit!
No music, No work. Period. That’s my simple rule.
At another employer, we constantly had music playing. Which made the whole job great fun, and motivated us.
Tell your boss in private, that unless he is a real programmer himself, and starts to catch up with the last half century of psychological science, he should stop reaching outside of his competence zone and trust the people that he hired because of their competence in that area (knowing how to work best)... Or risk ridiculing himself and losing all his control/power.
It’s a classical case of tightening one’s grip so much, that it slips trough one’s fingers.
I bet he is in some financial pressure or pressure from a retard boss above him. So don’t be angry at him, but try to help him here. Because if he fucks it up, that’s going to hurt you and him. (And your coworkers.)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Take a look at this chart. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3015/3039778526_e5637e8d97.jpg Can you see that to get in the zone you will have to have high skills and high challenge? I believe, that at least when writing boilerplate code, the distraction of your mind makes you go from "BORING" to "The zone". I have also found one other factor: Listening to new music, distracts more than music you have heard over and over again. Especially new lyrics will tie up your brain in a disruptive way. So, listen to familiar music, or to music without lyrics.
My goal at work is to get fired for bringing things to people's attention.
We got a 5% pay cut because of financial performance, but I don't have anyone under me - I just follow orders. So following orders like a good worker resulted in a pay cut.
We also took a survey to represent the supposed Voice Of the Workforce, and a major action item is to improve things. Like 'management makes good decisions' type questions and 'Id recommend this place to a friend'. We're supposed to fix things because the responses are negative at this point.
The only way is to stand your ground. I have survey results and a pay cut as my explanation if my manager wants to question why I'm causing problems. Following orders got me a pay cut, exposing stupidity will get me either smart coworkers at my current job, or smart coworkers at a job I'll be forced to look for when I get fired. Either way, I'm not going to be responsible for other peoples' decisions. If they don't want you to be a happy employee, you probably don't want to work there anyway.
I'm 0 for 2 on getting fired, meaning I complained enough that I feared getting fired, twice, and they fixed things instead. I'm currently working on a third complaint, will let you know how it goes on Monday.
This retard decision clearly signals your boss is not using headphones.
I won't state the obvious and say that your PHB is an idiot...
As him to back his statement with a scientific analysis an data.
In the mean time, google 'effect of music on concentration' and pull out a dozen study that state that music as a positive effect on concentration. He won't be able to argue and he will have to find another invalid reason. Then you'll be able to escalate an plead your case to his boss...
Cheers
I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.
Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers
Fscking email from knuckleheads. I find i'm most productive when i turn off Outlook and turn on iTunes. Unfortunately my job description isn't only to create code, but to also be the expert in just about every aspect of the hardware so i get all the dumb-ass questions from people.
I have a big old 80's ghetto blaster boombox that I listen to while coding. Earphones give me a headache. If the boss were to complain about hadphones, well he gets to hear some Bon Jovi, Joan Jett, or other early 80's music cranked up to about 7 with bass boost turned on. Ah now that is the way I write my best code.
If he does not like it, he does not get the code written. It is that simple.
At my job I am a combination Programmer / Systems Administrator. If he wants to fire me for not generating code because he won't let me have my music, good luck to him.
I left my last paid job because of this exact scenario.
Boss said music distracted him so it must distract everyone.
I knew if his reasoning was that bad it would only be a matter of time till we clashed over a programming related problem and he would always be 'right'.
Closed mind. Pointless arguing.
Although I'm not a professional programmer (yet!) I do code a bit, and I've found that listening to music can be helpful to maintain concentration by shutting out external stimuli - it makes it easier to get into the right sort of flow, at least for me. I've also used my iPod at my day job in customer services for a life insurer, and that worked well. It made it eaier to concentrate, which was very important as I was working on complaints and technical enquiries, which involved a lot of digging so it was a similar situation. I had them on low enough that if the phone rang I could still hear it. It prevented people from interrupting me as well (which is odd as people seem to feel it's OK to interrupt you if you're busy, but not if you are listening to music), or from getting distracted. Sadly we had a new department head come in and ban them. I find more ambient sounding music works well - I'm particularly fond of Joy Division or the Cocteau Twins for these purposes.
While programming, I don't even notice background music. I do however, notice a lack thereof.
Funny how the absence of something can often be more distracting than it's presence.
Not necessarily. As I said, I *like* music, so I could happily spend all day with headphones on, while doing a bad job.
Music's a great accompaniment to mindless drudgery, like housework.
Get a white noise generator. I have an ancient one that sits in the corner of my office. It helps drown out the background chit chat and definitely helps me focus my attention without distraction. No one notices that is is on but if I ever turn it off you suddenly become aware of just how noisy everyone is, you can hear every sniffle and word spoken and you realize just how distracting that really is. Maybe stage such a demo, have your noise generator running for a couple of weeks, then one day when your boss is in your cube, just reach over casually and turn it off. When he suddenly becomes aware of all the distracting chit chat pouring in, point out how much more productive you have been since you got the white noise generator and how it serves the same purpose for you music used to do when it was allowed. It might open his mind a little. Or not. But the main thing is you can concentrate.
Your boss is a retard...You should look for another job and encourage everybody to do so!
He is stupid. Programming is a cross between art painting and house cleaning. If he cant supply you a room which you people wont be distracted by anything, then he should shut the fuck up.
in addition, in order to feel comfortable any programmer needs his/her own music to give the kicks occasionally. its like brain drug.
actually you should quit that place and find another job. given the magnitude of lack of competitiveness of your boss in regard to management, eventually its going to sink.
Read radical news here
I love my job more every time I read about one of these senseless companies on slashdot.
"We don't care what you do as long as you get your work done on time" is basically our rule. We have no set working hours. We can work remotely all we want as long as we're in the office for important meetings and necessary lab work.
I usually work from 6-10AM and from 2-6PM. The 4 hour break in the middle is nice for getting in a good bike ride, running errands, or doing other shit I need to do.
...and the only conclusion ever reached by sociologists is: "Some do, some don't!"
No sig today...
Normally, I'd suggest that your boss read Peopleware, but that's probably how he got on this kick because (as I remember), this issue is addressed there. Apparently, there have been studies that show that people are less likely to find "shortcuts" to problems. It's funny though, that one of the main points there is that developers need a quiet environment to be productive.
For me, I tend to agree that almost all types of music reduce my abilities to solve problems. For repetitive stuff, like writing documentation or maybe certain types of specs, it's fine for me. But YMMV.
However, that doesn't mean that a boss should create rules like he's trying to do here. He has a small penis, almost for definitely. He's flexing his muscles. It might be better for him to identify employees that are having trouble and work with them 1-on-1 to come up with a plan to address the issues. There will be more than 1 issue for some...and less than 1 for others. So a case-by-case basis is the best approach. But that's too much work and it doesn't prove to everyone that his penis is actually "quite big".
At various points in my career, I've been a manager. So I understand your manager's problem, but he's making it worse (for the record, my penis is "average sized"). A better approach might be to talk to each developer individually and bring it to their attention that listening to music has been shown to decrease productivity (provide them with something to read about it) and ask them for their thoughts. Also ask if they'd be willing to give it a try. That approach may work in a group too. If the developer is unwilling to give it a try, then maybe they are a problem.
Now, noise in a cubicle environment is a huge problem. Get creative about it. This is actually an opportunity for you to take a leadership role. Maybe developers could work at home for part of the day. Maybe the company could spring for noise canceling headsets.
I have a full office (walls, door) where I work, and I still need to use headphones because of the sound conduction through the wall and suspended tile ceiling, and I only have to deal with one person in the adjacent office, but sometimes it is due to people blabbing out in the hallway. I find that certain types of music are conducive to my concentration if I am programming, and if I am not programming, more types of music are also acceptable.
Why not ignore the missive and carry on regardless?
It would be pretty petty to fire someone for this. If you get a handful of the employees to do the same thing then there's nothing much really they can do about it, short of fire the whole staff.
First, write down all the points and reasons you can think of why listing to music is good and why your boss is wrong.
You want lots and lots of mildly convincing points, a good selection of generally convincing points and one or two amazingly convincing points
Step one,
Write a formal complaint letter addressed to your bosses boss using all the generally convincing and amazingly convincing points and asking for your bosses boss to respond. Explain why your boss is wrong and his decision will cost the company money, include any official studies done on listening to music helping people to perform tasks. You can relate it to music that doctors use during surgery, that sort of thing.Your boss is probably assuming that the sort of music you're listening to is heavy metal or something equally as distracting so use this assumption against him. Say in the report that you're listening to classical or something that makes logical sense for helping you to program and you cant understand why your boss thinks this is bad.
Don't send it yet.
Step two.
Go and see your boss and explain why you need to listen to music using your mildly convincing points. Try and convince him to change his mind.
Once you've finished talking to your boss he's either going to decide he was wrong and renege or decide the rule stands, or try to stall for time and hope you go away. If he stalls just go back to him in 2 days and continue the talk.
Step three
When you get the answer of "No" whip out the letter from your back pocket and tell your boss you're laying a formal complaint and ask him to pass the letter on to his boss. Tell your boss he can read it if he wants before passing it on. Then walk out of the room leaving your boss with the surprised expression on his face.
What will happen...
Your boss now has two options, he can give your report to his boss, which makes him look like an idiot or he can change his mind on the rule to make you withdraw the complaint. Either way its probably good for your case. If he doesnt change his mind about the rule and you dont hear anything directly from your bosses boss he probably didnt pass on the report and you can get him in some serious trouble for not passing on a formal complaint to who it was addressed to.
I have a coworker who I feel is a d-bag and sings rage music under his breath obnoxiously while he has headphones on. He also likes to mash his keyboard as loud as possible while typing. He always is coughing or sniffling. I think he is doing it just to bother me, what should I do? I don't want to listen to music all day everyday?
I use specific songs on infinite loop for specific projects. This way, as soon as I hear that song, I'm able to get into the necessary frame of mind for that project. With ongoing projects, I can instantly remember the stage of my work when the song begins, even after being away for weeks at a time.
These in our company that listen to music while coding or other work must do it through their PC, and there's a soft phone for our Cisco CallManager installed. This way, they hear it whenthe phone ringing.
And the fire alarm problem has been solved by installing an incredibly obnoxious alarm klaxon that you WILL hear when it's going off.
My collegue is listening to music. I can hear it and it is a problem. But more than that, he is eating in the office, then belching and farting all day long. Maybe with music he is feeling at home ? Should I plug something in my nose to keep working without being distracted ? What's the limit ?
I bought Jabra's noise blocking headphones and I will not work without them anymore. I am sensible to noise, and those headphones were a God send.
I have co-workers that eat apples and other stuff while programming (making a lot of noise while on it). I *hate* that noise. I also hate people humming while they work.
More often than not, I just have the headphones on, without any music, and even without the "active noise blocking on". Just that thing on my head is already enough to block most annoying sounds. It really makes a big difference in capacity to concentrate. When the noise level increases, I just turn on the noise blocking thing.
Having headphones on also help because co-workers surfing the internet are less likely to interrupt me in order to mention something "cool" that they found on the web.
I'd tell him that you will trade for a private office which has a door on it.
Any work requiring concentration is best carried out in a very quiet environment that is also free of visual distractions.
The answer is not to drown out noise with music. The answer is to provide a different work place for programmers. I doubt that too many ace students in colleges study for critical exams with music or TVs yacking away.
to be rational and logical about this, and you might be able to sway your boss, but I'd give it a 95% chance that
his decision is emotionally rooted, and based on 'appearances' and 'professionalism' and such twaddle.
Your boss may also be projecting his/her inability to work that way.
Good luck!
I cannot work without music on, I have specific kinds of music that help me do certain things: There is Sphongle for those late nights coding stuff where you have to go the extra mile. And stuff like infected mushroom for when you want to get something done quickly. Too much noise from coworkers or stuff happening outside. Now there is also Rick Astley but lets not speak about that. p.s. your boss is a douche.. fire him
I listen to music all the time, with headphones that cut off the surrounding noises to some extent (they're not one of the noise-canceling headphones, however.) I have an extremely noisy neighbor in the next cubicle, and I'm also right in front of the doors to the elevators and close to some conference rooms, so there's a lot of traffic. The music helps block that out. There are times when I don't listen to music for some reason (somebody coming to visit in a few minutes, about to leave for a meeting...), and all those noises distract me a hell of a lot more than music ever will.
If some idiot with too much time on his or her hands were to suggest that we cannot listen to music anymore, the retaliation would be of biblical proportions. We have to deal with enough nonsense at work already.
Oh, yeah, to the original poster: Your boss is a moron and completely clueless.
Ever heard that AC/DC song, we've got big balls?
Ya, that was written for you.
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Once I worked in a place where we had to hear the boss' radio station. This was a station that played at least one Whitney song every 45 minutes. Plenty of people quit because of this. Headphones are a god given right for the cubicle worker. Your boss is an insane ass tyrant. Soon you will discover that if you're a halfway decent programmer, you'll have a new job or a new boss.
I have noticed that listening to a certain music ...
sometimes brings back memories of the time when
I first hear it.
It's a kind to returning to a childhood place and remembering
adventures
So I even have a track, that when I listen to it, reminds me
of the first fractal generating code I did in pascal : )
-
So it's not just pictures and letters that can help you hold
memories, but music can too (and i guess, for some people, smells
can too.)
If the goal is to filter out noise, then the simples solution is to put on your headphones or ear buds and listen to white noise. Your body is programmed to give "attention" to the white noise, and you won't add possible distractions in the form of lyrics, solos... That said, regarding to music everyone is different. If you see a programmer with headphones furiously typing on a code file, it's ok. If you see a programmer with headphones furiously playing an air guitar, on the other hand...
Working to work less.
hum your own melody
There has to be many studies done on how music affects productivity in creative jobs like SW development. Find a couple of studies which prove that music enhances productivity and show those to your boss. Here is a couple to get you started:
http://pom.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/33/2/173
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/apl/80/5/547.html
Your boss obviously has no technical experience/background, and therefore is a crappy boss to a programmer.
Do I need music to work with? No, I generally work without it. But... there have been times when I've willing to work all night and finish something, because I was listening to some music and had no particular reason to go home, and I've been willing to grind out a solution with music as the lubricant. In a silent office, I do my hours competently but want to leave as soon as I can. I'm surprised that your environment is still cubicles - I thought that was rather passe and everything is at least (semi) open plan now as a working environment
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
if you can phrase it correctly then you could make a case for it being a workplace safety issue
and if you are diagnosed with one of the Geek Curses then it also could be a "reasonable accommodation"
hmm who wants to band together and have a study done on this subject??
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In my previous job, like 7 years ago, I used headphones too and my boss once called me to his office and forbidden listening to music explicitly. I tried to explain and ask for reasons and he just told me he didn't have to explain anything. A couple months after I applied for a new job and entered an environment where everyone used headphones to keep them concentrated to their work and the company even bought the headphones on request. And guess what, all the good developers left sooner and later too. Managers like this are just morons, get off if you can.
I work at a huge credit card company, they allow all of us programmers to listen to music. They actually encourage it, there's no way we could drown out all the other noise of the cubicle farm. They gave us Microsoft Communicator so we could still communicate while we had headphones on. I would probably quit if I couldn't listen to music to drown out all the shit in the background.
Tell him if you can't listen to music while you program then you will just publish his porn browsing habits to the shareholders. Or. That you will tell his secretary's Marine husband that yo have been banging her while he has been stationed over seas.
I stream him all day long. Without howard, life would not be the same
* Try and discuss the issue rationally, be ignored (and follow up with the remaining two options) :-
* Ignore the directive and continue listening to music, collect three written warnings and be fired.
* Quit now.
The sad truth is, people who think like this exist. And you CANNOT change their mind. Sometimes. But not every time. They end up in positions of management. They believe that rules, and strict control, is how to achieve productivity in their underlings and every descision they ever make will be coloured by that.
They will install firewall software to monitor and block employees web access, despite the fact that a lot of useful research material code-wise tends to occour on blogs, wiki's and other sites that fall into blacklist categories like "peer to peer", "social networking" or "network backup". Your life degenerates into a living hell of finding every topic of research ends up being a google results page full of blocked results.
The will disallow any form of gaming on company hardware (during non work hours) because they are oblivious to the team building aspects of LAN games, as well as the inspiration many programmers (especially games developers those lucky bastards) find in the work of others.
They try to measure productivity in meaningless and easy to game metrics like "number of bugs per test cycle" or "lines of code written".
Unless (and only if) you manage to make a successful stand against them, they will use the failures engenderd by their own bad policies as evidence that more draconian measures need to be introduced. Every time a critical bug reaches the world, they will react by adding more developer 'checks' and testing procedures, ensuring that the next bug is yet more expensive (and time consuming) to fix. Each time, YOU the developer will be blamed for the ever more massive costs incurred by their futile attempt to stamp out the one constant of computer science - if youre not making bugs, youre not developing features.
This will over time, sap the reason you became a programmer. your zest and zeal will die. Programming will become a 9 to 5 hellish drudge that you can only hope to escape from at the end of the day. You will feel self doubt and actually come to believe that it IS you, not them, responsible for the hellish state of affairs - where it takes over 6 months to develop and ship a single feature or upgrade.
These people read dilbert, and find it funny not sad - because theyre empathising with the PHB.
You cannot frankly discuss things with them because, while you are both speaking english, your core understandings of basic concepts is fundamentally different. As such, when you present what you belive to be a compelling argument to them, they will draw a totally different conclusion from the same data. they are not idiots. Or classically stupid.
they do however think differntly. And they live amongst us. and become our managers.
Ask your boss if he listens to the radio on the drive to work...
I'm not a programmer but I am an intense user and do some admin functionality on a machine from time to time.
I can't think of anything BETTER than music to help focus when I really need to concerntrate or work faster.
(ideally, no lyrics, I don't like them generally)
This man clearly has no clue - I'd have to say to go with the earmuff AND or earplug move, I know it's going to look strange and possibly cause some kind of 'don't be ridiculous' speech from the boss but frankly fuck the guy - it should help.
Also find a new job, the man is an idiot.
Sidenote: wouldn't it be nice if some of these damned 'ask slashdot' articles had follow ups on the results?
I entertained myself by listening to CNN's broadcast of all-OJ Simpson trial, all the time.
Other than that, Seraphim Blaze and The Stompers. Will someone please breed some good rockers? PLEASE?
Don't question them.
http://vimeo.com/6839064
I end up with only one realization. Your boss (or indeed, as some commenters has pointed out, it's your non coding-coworkers who have forced your boss to take this action) doesn't trust you (coders).
I've been in a similar situation, though in that case I wasn't working as a coder. From one day to the next we weren't allowed to bring our mp3-players to work, for security reasons.
The work in itself was dull and at night, som the music was for me a way to stay awake at all. I actually worked faster if I had good tunes in my ears, and not hearing my coworkers boombox on the machine behind me...
The machines themselves were noicy, so you really couldn't have any uplifting conversations with the person you worked alongside with. Utterly boring.
So, what was the reason? They thought we could/would steal information from the company with said mp3-player. True, but if you distrust your employees that much, why don't you secure the hardware? (they had dvd-burners on them!!! unlocked)
Why don't you pad your employees down before leaving work? (we were in fact handling a big amount of cash every night)
So, I did continue to bring another mp3-player to work. It played burned mp3-CD's. The boss couldn't say much to that, but I worked slower because now i was attached to this big thing and couldn't move about as much. I don't think she really got the point though. She just wanted to micromanage (the point beeing that she really had no clue).
I've been in other similar situations, but where the boss actually has listened, and trusted us to find the work situation that made us most productive. In my case I actually begged to sit in the far corner, because I couldn't stop hearing my co-workers giving customers wrong or confusing advice. My boss understood and never questioned the fact that I used headphones, because she saw the result. I was productive as hell as soon as I could shut out the noice.
Anyway,
a) take up the trust issue, your boss need to further explain the reasons for his desicions, or give you data on your performance in regard to the distracting music
b) have a dialogue with your non coding coworkers, ask them if they have taken this up with your boss, and explain why and what music you listen to to drown their chatter out, or FFS take a week when you say all your code out aloud, that'll make them beg you to listen to music again
c) remember and do point out to others that people work differently. some need music, some need to sit and say their code out aloud (making us need the music)...
if your boss can't understand this, I think he should just go back to being a coworker in the economics departement (he sounds like it's there he belongs...)
and no, all music doesn't work well for me, radio is out of the question (this was the bosses suggestion at work no 1), and it all depends on what work I'm doing. Sometimes I need the aggressive electro, and sometimes the soothing jazz. But I know what makes me more productive, and I hope as hell my future employers can understand and trust that I know what I'm doing. Otherwise they shouldn't hire me...
If people around you are distracting you could call a bit of meditation. Once they hear you shout SERENITY NOW! out loud a few times every hour or so, they'll understand your frustration.
Maybe all the studies about the danger of driving and cell phones could be used. You have to argue/show that listening in on a conversation is almost as bad as participating. I think it is. For a few years, I shared an office with someone who talked on the phone a lot. The only way to concentrate was music on headphones.
I think that human conversation is the most distracting thing around, and if other people talk as part of their jobs, earphones make you much more productive.
But bosses who issue edicts like that are idiots. And someone already suggested a new job.
I have ADHD which now only affects me in my thought process and organization. I do not make mistakes easily unless I am really tired. The distraction from others is just too much. I also find that music doesn't distract me, but the right kind of music(for me the kind without words) actually keeps me on track and focused. Focusing in environments with the speech and randomness of others distracts me too much to get much done.
The real problem is likely that someone in one of the non-programming groups is complaining about the noise, and that PERSON is a whiny PITA who makes life miserable for the boss and the Company. This is a person who is a complainer. You likely know who it is.
That whiner can probably hear the music emanating from the headphones.
Simple solutions:
* Turn down the music a bit so that schmuck can't hear it...
* Screw up the PC/network connection of that person so the cube of that person has to be moved somewhere else
* Screw up the phone of that person so the cube gets cursed and no one moves back into it...
Your boss won't do anything but move the schmuck, and so long as no one sees you doing it - you won't get blamed... Problem solved.
Find a new job.
Forget you. You are not valuable. You are an expense. You are a necessary evil that cuts into the profits. Why do you think the company stock goes up when a bunch of you are laid off? If you were valuable assets, then the company could borrow against your value like it can against inventory and accounts receivable. You could be sold or traded like inventory or the old company car.
Right now there are fifty guys in line for your job. Your manager can replace you with another monkey in clothing faster than you can say "But I like music." IT does not matter what your experience or your skills or education, you are a cog in a machine and when you squeak you get replaced with some less squeaky cog.
That's the nature of companies in our day in age.
Creative Spelling Copyright (2002). May use without Persimmons
when i'm coding, i never listen to music: i don't hear it, so why bother;-) but then i can read a book in a bowling alley...
That reminds me of a story about my friend Charlie.
Personally, I would say get out now. A semi flexible work environment is essential to moral and productivity. Obviously they're more interested in micromanaging and trolling than actual productivity. The work environment downward spiral will only get worse.
In my office, the programmers have their own area, and we still insist on listening to music. Of course, we may be a twisted group; the louder and heavier the music, the harder we're working. The managers actually get suspicious if we're not listening to music.
I use a desk fan that produces an incredible amount of white noise. It cost me like $9 at Target.
Sometimes, I'll find myself getting lost in the music. This is a bit, rare, though. Most of the time it just provides suitable background noise, or just a catchy tune to keep me focused. Video game music tends to work for me more than any other, as it usually is lyric-less and does not distract me in the slightest. When I'm about to tackle particularly difficult problems, I fire up the boss music to get me pumped. In this case, it actually helps me.
Hopefully, your boss will realize the mistake he's made in disallowing music. Choosing the right music can alter your emotions and work output. Sure, if you're listening to Death Metal or whatever at full blast, that may be distracting (and for some, maybe not). But otherwise it's an aid to the work process, not a deterrence.
I would argue both points. Seems to me that you can play a little classical music through the speakers and continue on. You know, the light, tinkling kind of classical that everyone and their dog argues is good for the brain. Just use some psychology on the problem. Forget a frontal assault.
'Id recommend this place to a friend'.
Head of HR asked me about this for a recruiting-campain and what reasons I could name for working where I currently work - my answer basically boiled down to: "You do not want to know my comments on this topic..."
We're currently short a few good techies, and no-one are bringing in people they know despite the option of 1/2 - 1 month's pay as bonus if we bring in a person, that stays for at least 6 months.
If the programmers' job is heads down coding without any interaction with anyone else in the office I would agree that the policy is dumb. But I suspect there's another side to this story.
Is this office supposed to be something like an Agile environment where the programmers should be interacting with sales and customer support? Are the programmers using their music as an excuse to ignore questions? Are the programmers spending a significant part of their day discussing and swapping music files?
I suspect that the answer to at least some of these questions is yes.
Listen to death metal. Your boss won't consider it to be music.
I listen to music all the time, if your developers are that bad at programming that music will slow their productivity then you should get new developers. Also what about time it takes the server to load, time wasted due to anti-virus scanning every file you are using - which when your a developer is HUGE. And all that time wasted in meetings which turn out to be irrelevant. Sounds like you have a boss that is ignorant and just doesn't get it. But thanks now I have a new question to ask potential employers, if they don't allow music I will walk, what is this prison - a job is a two way contact not a one way relationship.
Do we have to go over the slashdot animosity towards phb ritual everytime? How about engaging this like intelligent reasonable people that like to build up empirical arguments? Isn't that what we nerds are good at? I think OP's boss has a reasonable point. I find that studying or coding with music works well when there is no singing involved and no dominant fx like a hard drum-bass etc. Maybe you can suggest that to your boss.
Did anyone ever consider that the programmers haven't been producing a product or quality product and this is their way to getting their attention. Usually you don't see these problems if everything is going well.
The other option is that some petty office worker that answers the phone all the time sunk your boat.
Either way, deal with it and quit whining. It's a job, they pay you and provide you a work location in return for results. Hey maybe you can convince them to telework and save them the cost of running your workstation (Go Green!!). Of course that assumes that they have a reason to trust that you'll work well under your own supervision.
Music burns up my brain cycles that otherwise would distract me into other things. It also keeps out the verbal grooming behaviors of my workmates.For both reasons it is required for me to program. But there are conditions:
Programming -> Trance or dance. NOT pop, or any other music with words, particularly meaningful words. There is too much to construct in my head, words get in the way. Any music that engages me too much, either because I wrote it or because it really grabs me is off limits while programming.
Debugging -> Pop is allowed, sometimes required. There are long periods of tedium, and the goal is to discover patterns bigger than the ones I am currently seeing. For me that is kind of like how flying happens in Hitchhikers Guide, I have to forget that I can;t see the pattern, then I do. Songs with words help distract me.
If programmers are listening to music that engages them too much, he might have a point. But applying a blanket rule because he doesn't understand the issues is an epic fail.
This being a programmer issue, it's not surprising that the opinions offered are binary. (Music/prattle, quit your job/conform, boss is moron/you're a moron) What about the third way: Silence. You could quite reasonably claim that you need silence to work. Go get some of those largeconspicuous headphones from the eighties and don't hook them up to the music player. When the supervisor growls, dangle the unconnected plug in his face and innocently say all you wanted was to shut out the noise. After a few such incidents you'll be "the weird guy with the headphones", and nobody will notice when you plug in to your music player or switch to a cordless headset or whatever. You can have your music and your job, too! (Whether you want that job in the first place is another story...)
QUIT now and move on! Life's too short for this kinds of crap, IMHO.
Plus, by avoiding pop culture songs, you'll have the added advantage of listening to music that's good :)
Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
In what country do you live that your boss can demand this?
In germany an emplyoee would just laugh about such a demand. Wether you listen to music (especially with earphones) does not fall under employee laws but where it is appropriated under working securitiy/savety laws. Ofc. a bus driver or train driver may not wear ear phones and listen to "loud" music, or in an power plant operation room there may not be any music at all.
But a mere desktop worker ... they even are allowed to have normal radio with music for their whole environment as long as no coworker objects.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I used to be an SVP of a development organization and if one of my managers sent an email like that we would be having a long discussion about his potential career choices. Anything that an individual developer considered helpful that didn't distract others and was legal was and should always should be permitted. I'd want to know what it was about people having things in and around their ears that would be such a source of consternation for this manger. This isn't an issue with management this is an issue with an individual moron.
Haha, you're funny. Maybe some "IT" jobs are like that, but where I work you'd also have to factor in getting a new employee up to speed with the products that we offer. It took two years before I was given an actual core product to code instead of minor/major enhancements to existing products that required little to no knowledge of the field that we deal in.
I ran into a similar situation a while back where my work space was moved from a fairly quiet part of the office into accountant land. It was unbelievable how much noise and chatter they made. I complained a few times and then got my supervisor to come down and have some of our team meetings in my cube. Once he'd experienced the constant distraction for himself a few times, he understood and moved me to a more peaceful area.
Therefore, make more mistakes without the music and he will be forced to allow it.
As many other have mentioned, *get the hell out*.
It seems to me that they aren't very concerned with your happiness. Seeing as you are going to spend most of your concious life at your job, you should be happy, and not have to worry about what retardation will come to you next.
Happiness is the #1 concern for me.
Where I work - no cubicles, just pods of desks grouped randomly, the company hands out quality head phones to everyone.
You got to pick from the ones that let ambient noise in (so you can `hear' conversations in the pod that might be relevant), or you can go for the total isolation models that block everything but your music.
We had an ulterior motive for this - we do a lot of video-based training and have a library of taped lectures and design overviews available.
HEB (a large supermarket chain in Texas) did metrics on programmers and found that, on average, it takes 30 minutes for programmers to return to the concentration flow they had before being interrupted by a question from a co-worker. We were able to use this metric to have the programmers put in a closed room vs. the cube farm for everyone else. Everyone wore headphones and we turned off all overhead lights and used local desk lamps instead. This worked well until others got jealous of the programmer's hide-out, but by then the company had been sold and we were all laid off.
I have sat with headphones on and no music playing just to keep the endless prattling of idiots around me from being a distraction. People have no ability to just shut the fuck up most of the time and the constant irritation is usually enough to reduce my productivity immensely. I cannot imagine an intelligent office manager dictating that programmers cannot wear headphones. They must be completely ignorant of what level of concentration can be required to program something complex. I would seriously consider quitting over it, even though it seems a small issue.
However, the problem should be self solving, productivity will drop, errors will increase and the manager will likely see the error of his reasoning.
For some strange reason though, I *can* program at home when my wife is talking to me and the TV is playing, go figure. Its much less of a distraction than 2 other people talking to each other about something that holds no interest to me.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
In a company I used to work we had lots of GB of music in our dataserver.
Everybody was welcomed to enrich the music folder, if he followed the naming conversions and folder structure, heh...
I was pleasantly surprised on my first day. Of course, one of the 2 bosses was a serious geek and quite a coder so there you go.
Although, the bosses were listening to some weird stuff from time to time with their office door open we managed to drawn that out with some Dream Theater.
I have a play list of up tempo favorites for programming which just about always gets me in that zone where all distractions are tuned out. Since most of my work is remote online I can crank it up to the optimum level (ie, one notch down from where my ears start bleeding) For those working in an office with people around them why not use ear phones?
Your boss is full of shit and has a problem with other people actually enjoying or at least trying to cope with their job. It is common amongst people who are in charge or, are scared of and in love with money. It's like when you're cleaning the house. Listening to music makes the job quicker, easier to cope with, and sometimes truly enjoyable and rewarding. That is what work should feel like. But it is dickheads like him that set stupid policies based on his own feelings, rather than actual data and proof.
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
Unless your all females your boss is wrong. Studies have shown that males can concentrate better with background music than without.
Well, you could reply not to fcuk around with workers habbits, when they don't harass productivity, because THAT is really distracting.
It sounds like the music-hating boss is a lost cause, but, if he's willing, you might try to educate him with a demonstration. Since he obviously doesn't code, perhaps you could have him solve a sudoku or logic puzzle while in the middle of a conversation-filled room (tell your fellow programmers to say his name occasionally so the cocktail effect kicks in). Time him, then give him a similar task with some innocuous electronica and time him again. And then he'll still probably want it his way, just to save face.
Ask me about my sig!
For the people who are helped by music when programming:
I listen to a pretty wide range of music, from classical through to current pop, with a lot of stuff inbetween. I find that some music that I like helps me to program, but other music, which I also like hinders me.
I work better with rhythmically strong music - a heavy beat without deep complexity. Music which encourages me to pay attention to lyrics is bad, but that might just be that familiarity is a requirement so as not to get sidetracked into _listening_ to the music.
The best music I know of for taking me to the zone is Talking Heads. And their best programming album of all for me is Stop Making Sense, which I must have listened to thousands of times.
It's starting to get repetitive. I would like some new programming music: what music helps you most?
Consider the three purposes that listening to music on headphones provides: 1. noise masking - it prevents you from being distracted from Sally Sales. 2. virtual barrier - wearing headphones means that someone knows that they are interrupting you to ask a question. Functions as a virtual door, per se. 3. motivation - the right type of music can make you work more effectively. You might want to find out what your bosses' objection really is - he might not like the fact that he has to interrupt his programmers to ask them a question. I am self-employed and work in my own office. I've found that listening to music helps a lot while coding but can be distracting when writing a report. For those of you who find listening to music distracting but still need the noise masking aspect, I recommend trying out any type of instrumental (ie. no vocals) music - it doesn't activate that part of our brain.
Have you thought of trying to use white/pink noise or, if you are more into "natural" stuff, surf sounds or some of the other nature/ambiance stuff?
My productivity has gone up probably ~1000% since I started wearing headphones at work. Granted, I listen to techno/trance type music so there aren't any lyrics. I do find that songs with a voice in them do distract me. But I couldn't imagine going back to not listening to anything.
Try this: after a few weeks of going by his policy, all the programmers should go into his office and express concerns about how you are all constantly getting distracted and can't work. OR, just wait until he sees projects suddenly taking longer to complete because you can't work as fast. THEN see what he says.
1986 called, they want their boss back.
After all, talk radio isn't music. ;-)
Seriously, I listen to talk radio while I program. The fact of the matter is I love to program (C/C++) but quite frankly it drives me bonkers to sit in front of a computer all day. My mind tends to race and just sitting there programming for a long period of time causes me to find real distractions to keep my mind occupied (browsing the web pointlessly to-no-end being a favorite.)
By listening to talk radio, it allows me to keep whatever part of my brain needs to be occupied occupied and I can program effectively. Unlike co-workers, talk radio can be easily tuned out when real concentration is needed but quite frankly, most programming is drudgery and while creative doesn't require huge amounts of concentration. When real concentration is needed, I automatically do what I need to do after which I realize that I missed the last half hour or hour of the show.
Works for me.... Without talk radio or at least music, I'd be off job hunting now. Luckily, I'm self employed.
In my office the use of headphones is seen much like being able to close a door to your office.
If my headphones are on, I'm allowed to focus and people only bother me for the important stuff.
You could propose to him just such a scenario.
If he's allowed to close the door to his office, are you allowed similar functionality to apply to your cubicle?
It sounds like a greater problem tho: mistakes.
So rather than increase the workload by having someone check for mistakes, or facing a deeper rooted problem, let him blame it on the music.
I wonder if the music is not annoying others (sometimes my music, on my headphones, can be heard 4 cubes away).
Sung tu the tune of Bon Jovi:
Stop debugging, stop debugging, - It's my life!
SCNR :)
I recently did a study skills programme at my university. They insist that listening to music is helpful and helps you keep your concentration. Your boss does not sound very open minded, perhaps it is correct that other employees have been whining. I also recently worked in a laboratory. I was told portable music players are fine and sometimes helpful but however, I was not allowed to use them when working with hazardous chemicals and such.
I personally, listen to mixed minimal techno. Constant flow of beats keeps me calm, and there aren't words in it that would distract me. Also, since techno always follow a 4x8 beat pattern(ike rock, blues..), you can really rely on it... But don't get me wrong, it's never boring... My mom is an architect and she also listen to the same music while drafting on a comp. ;)
I also found out that i can drive for up to 14 hours non-stop with a nice minimal techno pumping in the background.
So, for everyone doesn't have a stupid boss, I'd recommend a DJ mix of minimal techno since it's designed to keep you in focus, while not being distracting. I personally work at home, with a personal DJ spinning live, but for you less fortunate, there is a bunch of dj mixes available free on numerous websites, and a bunch of great shoutcast streams with live dj's playing always live music.
http://synapsenight.podomatic.com/ is a nice place to start
Give your boss a copy of Demarco & Lister's "Peopleware". Here's what Joel Sposky had to say about it in 2000 (copied from a review on Amazon.com):
By Joel Spolsky (New York, NY USA) - See all my reviews
As summer interns at Microsoft, my friends and I used to take "field trips" to the company supply room to stock up on school supplies. Among the floppy disks, mouse pads, and post-it notes was a stack of small paperback books, so I took one home to read.
The book was Peopleware, by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister. This book was one of the most influential books I've ever read. The best way to describe it would be as an Anti-Dilbert Manifesto.
Ever wonder why everybody at Microsoft gets their own office, with walls and a door that shuts? It's in there. Why do managers give so much leeway to their teams to get things done? That's in there too. Why are there so many jelled SWAT teams at Microsoft that are remarkably productive? Mainly because Bill Gates has built a company full of managers who read Peopleware. I can't recommend this book highly enough. It is the one thing every software manager needs to read... not just once, but once a year.
http://www.hibermate.com/images/3m-ear-plugs.jpg
Earplugs for everyone. Buy a set for each developer and then maybe the boss will get the picture that office chatter/noises are very distracting.
1) Buy headphones that have a conspicuous microphone attached
2) Set up a free conference call with some of the other developers
3) invite the pointy haired boss to an "Engineering session"
4) Talk in techno babble about advanced queuing theory or type migration or database locking.
5) Invite anyone not involved in the "Data comparator junction controller model" to drop off the call.
6) Everyone hangs up and listens to music never removing their headphones.
7) Randomly shout Star Trek Quotes, lines of code, and euphemistic expletives
Amidst all the psycho-babble, this study ( http://pom.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/33/2/173 ), as do many others, indicates a positive effect on programmer productivity from music: "Results indicated that state positive affect and quality-of-work were lowest with no music, while time-on-task was longest when music was removed."
As with others above, I agree that each of us is different in how we relate to sounds and music (the type matters also) as we work, but the key point is that sound has IMPACT on us, be it positive or negative - that is part of human nature. For my part, since I am deaf in one ear, and have strong tinnitus (constant high-pitched tones - from shooting without ear protection in my younger days - hey, no one got hurt otherwise) in the other, I find it extremely important to drown out the tinnitus as well as office background noise with the "organized noise" of music, preferably classical and/or "smooth jazz" for variation (check out www.theclassicalstation.org ).
Co-workers (in-office ones, with the rest being 8-10,000 miles away) have learned to get my attention visually (or with instant messaging) when they want to talk to me directly when they see my single headphone on (no point in making my deaf ear sore also).
RO
After a few bars of Oklahoma! ... you'll get your music players back.
When questioned, explain that it helps you concentrate on the task at hand. Remind him that IBM hired musicians for the first programmers.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Sounds like your boss should be paying attention to the task at hand rather than being "The Boss". Some people get nuts reading books with all kinds of recommendations that have nothing to do with productivity and everything to do with asserting authority. Programming is not 'typing' programming is 'thinking' and how dare someone tell me what should be the best way for me to think. I had one 'Boss' change my desk over a weekend so that it faced the wall, in my office. When I questioned this mental midget his response was "They say it's better that way". This of course prompted me to: A) Explain the dynamics of personal thought and it's importance to creating quality code vs a data entry operator B) Quit my job C) Write the song 'They' or D) All of the above ..................Yep you guessed it....the answer is of course D.
-- L8R, guitardood
Ask Boss to:
--improve the working conditions that will improve ambient noise suitable for programming, which means extensive interior re-decoration.
--provide each programmer with Bose Quiet HeadPhones (no music) but cuts out noises.
--allow each employee to use their own head phones/music combo to create their own quiet environment.
That's ok, don't take your music player, just take a regular amp and a couple of speakers and stream your music from your home PC so you (and everyone 2 blocks around) can listen some hardcore music (supposing you listen experimental breakcore).
4 - A robot may not masturbate, except where such action would conflict with the Second Law.
I find that giving the music-loving part of my brain something to chew on while the logical problem-solving part is busy writing code works great. Not only does it avoid distractions from other sources of sound, it keeps the music-loving part of my brain from also distracting me. It has to be music that won't grab my conscious attention, though. So, as many have posted, it tends to be either IDM or trance or ambient stuff, or it has to be stuff that is so time-worn in my brain that it doesn't catch my attention. I would estimate it at least doubles my coding productivity.
Now, reading, on the other hand, is very much interfered with by music. Somehow the part of my brain that likes music is also tied in with processing language inputs. I suspect that's where the OP's boss gets this notion from. He's probably also afflicted by music messing up his language input processing abilities, and assumes that this translates to distraction while coding.
Dead on. Management doesn't need a reason to fire you even in ultra-liberal states like MA.
Give them half a reason and you're gone.
Best non-political solutions so far...
Noise canceling headphones (beware of inexpensive ones)
http://www.amazon.com/Noise-Cancelling-Headphones-Accessories-Supplies/b?ie=UTF8&node=509318
Sound dampening headset like airport luggage handlers use (no electronics)
Earplugs.
Use of white noise or natural/environmental sounds (in place of music on headset)
and your iPod and shove them up your bosses ass then find a job at a place that doesn't suck.
Where I work we don't even have cubicles. We have a row of desks on angles. Right next to me is this woman who is on the phone ALL DAY, and she has a really annoying nasal voice, and half of the time she's speaking really loud in spanish. I can't tell if they're social calls, or work calls, but when I hear "AY! NO!" followed by loud laughing, I know it's a social call. Then her and my boss sit down and have a gigantic lunch every day, which takes at least 20 minutes, and my boss is not a quiet eater. I have to either excuse myself and go outside, or put in my headphones. Then there's getting caught right in the middle of a discussion between her and the guy on the other side of me, both of them trying to talk through my head.
If I could find another job, I would take it in an instant.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
"If you have problems with the quality of my work then we should discuss that specifically and independently and come up with an improvement plan."
The rest is irrelevant.
You and your boss are actually not far apart. You both understand that programming requires concentration and you both want to minimize distractions.
The only difference is the question: what is more distracting? Music or People talking around you?
I think it has been well established (sorry .. I'm not going to do research for you) that human speech is much more distracting than anything
else. So if you listen to music, you might try to focus on less verbal stuff.
As it happens, I *am* the management in a mid-sized software company. We also have a cubicle farm and we encourage our
staff - those who wish to - to put their music on their PCs and playback on their earphones. It shows that they want to tune out
the background noise, which is sometimes hard to completely eliminate.
Anyways, just talk to your boss about alternate sources of distraction, and if you can look up research supporting :-)
the assertion that talking is more distraction. I don't see this as such a big conflict at all.. The devil is just in the
details.
Pretty sure I would get absolutely nothing done without my music playing. For that matter, I recently switched from headphones to speakers and just try to keep it at a reasonable volume for my neighbors. I think your boss is either making a power play or, like others have said, people are complaining that you get to listen to music and they don't. Not really any advice to give other than to keep fighting, maybe you could get a few of the other programmers to politely voice their concerns about the policy change. Good luck.
My experience is that these random boss directives cease to be enforced after two months.
--I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
-- See?
Ted talks Julian Treasure: The 4 ways sound affects us
Look it up... then show it to your boss and tell him to STFU
I enjoy what I call my "8-bit mix" -- various songs, each with some kind of "8-bit" flavor to them. Some are old Nintendo themes (Tetris for the GB had great music for looping), some are simple classical instrumentals (pieces by Rameau, The Harmonious Blacksmith, etc.)
But then again, my programming tends to be very procedural (and often 8-bit assembly). YMMV.
About the only common theme seems to be order, as opposed to chaos.
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
I am late here, but I would suggest you to invest as much as you can from your spare time to look for a new job if you do not want to end up like Dilbert.
My other signature is a car
That is horrible. Music is a must when programming... As long as you aren't rocking out and shouting lyrics or warbling horrifically or generally annoying others with it in some manner, I think music is fine.
Every time you hear someone talking, say (in a loud voice) "HEY, CAN YOU KEEP IT DOWN OVER THERE! YOU'RE DISTRACTING ME FROM MY CODING".
Within a few hours you will be given back your headphones due to the people complaining about you.
I use. It can generate a quite nice ocean wave simulation http://www.esseraudio.com/en/test-tone-generator-windows-software-generate-test-signal-sine-pink-noise-crest-factor.html
In the earlier days of my company we had our own building and someone would always be playing their music loud. Sometimes several people would be playing music all at once. When we moved into a shared space building, we all went to headphones. But with us, music is a requirement. If your not using it to get your work done, you are not one of us and you dont belong here. Were all programmers here, we have serious work to do, and our work brings in the cash. Dont fuck with our situation. And if anyone has a question or needs assistance, use im to start the conversation. Always. The owner of the company more then understands this and would get pretty pissed if someone started jacking around with her people. The current 'manager' is a programmer and understands this completely.
My mother works in vaccine research out east. She is an admin assistant working in a cube farm with accountants, organizers, scientists. Her environment is nearly identical to mine. Everyone has headphones and music, everyone uses im out of courtesy to others.
Not only is your boss a moron, he is a disrespectful (contemptuous, even) jackass. Time to look for another job.
Don't expect managers to understand your job. If my experience is an indication of anything, most of them have never done any software work. However, they do understand money. Let them know that because of the change in employment conditions that you require a raise. This will give them something concrete to weigh. If they honestly feel that the absence of music will reduce bug rates that significantly, then the raise should be worth it. Of course, they could just refuse, in which case you need to be willing to leave.
There are many factors that could affect coding throughput: too much drinking on the weekends, not enough sleep during the week, not enough fiber in diet.... If my employer tried to mandate any of these behaviors you can bet that I would be in my manager's office with either a raise request or my two-weeks notice.
Your boss is a nut job. It's pretty common conventional wisdom that music aids in concentration, though that probably depends on the music. Unfortunately for you, anyone willing to micromanage at this level is unlikely to listen to reason, even if you were to present him with peer-reviewed studies that back up your contention that music is helpful. So like the tag says...find a new job.
One thought: he may not actually believe music is distracting. It may be that other people can hear what you guys are listening to even though you're using headphones, and have complained. Depending on what kind of headphones you're using, there may be some "sound leakage". It can be bothersome.
I'm not using any player, but when I program I always have some kind of tune in my head. So I think that in my case at least no boss could make that stop.
I'd take some of the suggestions to show your boss the error of his ways with a dose of caution. That being said explain calmly that you find the mixed cube environment very distracting and that music helps you to block out the background noise. Also my personal experience is that I code in time with my music. When I'm trying to get through a big chunk of code I usually throw on a techno mix from Pandora to speed up my coding. Explaining something like this, and putting it in terms your boss will understand, should get you what you want. It is also possible that he's a total prick.
I hate asshole managers who are like this!!! To me, music and headphones go hand-in-hand with programming. It helps clear my mind of other thoughts and focus on the task at hand. The person noting that conversation and general prattle being far more distracting is right. Good luck eradicating THAT from the office! You may as well be working in a library. And guess what? Go to a college library and what do you see? Lots of kids wearing headphones. And I'm betting most of them get pretty good grades. And I can't tell you how many advanced math classes music helped me study for. Conversation and other noises were, for me, very distracting when I'm doing math. What was I to do? Tell the world to STFU?!? Headphones is a simple solution.
I am also a musician and, to some degree, I think music helps inspire creativity; something that is IMO rather necessary in programming!
Add to that the fact that some managers are completely useless and need to justify their existence by being an asshole!
Take comfort in knowing that once the job market improves, you can and will take a better job. I'd be tempted to drop a subtle hint about this to your boss, but its not a good idea.
I think it's pretty obvious: your boss has never worked a solid day in his life.
I'm not a programmer, I do ceramic tile during the day, photography in my off hours. Since I shoot raw, many evenings are filled with post-processing. I'll tell ya, I'd DIE, without any music while working.
These two things, I think, are very similar to what you do: a little bit creative, a little bit technical, coming together to make a unique whole. Music probably gives your thoughts rhythm and a creative spark to solve problems that absolute silence, or distracting background banter in the office would quench.
Without music, you probably feel more...autonomoton than productive employee.
In fact, in every job site I've worked, with few exceptions, others on the site need something to listen to. Without it, work is drudgery.
I think your boss is just jealous because you're productive, and he (she?) doesn't know what they're supposed to do. :)
He probably shouldn't be in management.
The boss is probably getting other non programmers trying to listen to music, jobs where they just can't listen and work. Like maybe sales, or customer service (I mean while your talking to customers). And then they say "well the programmers get too". So, the default easy fix is to say, "nobody can listen to music". Personally I've found that with regards programming, listening makes all the difference in the world to my productivity. Not just any music though. It has to be something that's not to distracting. I like progressive house, trance, downtempo, etc... stuff that's not too lyric heavy. I'm sure that would be similar to other types of music too (classical, jazz whatever you like). I find the lyrics in other types of music (more main stream rock, pop, country, etc..) more distracting. Even, then it's way less distracting than the office chitter chatter. If I'm not listening to music, my attention seems to reach out and latch on to whatever conversations others in the office having, and that causing me to lose my programming zen.
Sounds like your boss needs to learn about different learning styles. Auditory learners, such as myself, NEED the background music to be able to concentrate. Quiet actually becomes a distraction.
The boss wants you to work a certain way. The boss pays you to do this. You don't want to work the way the boss wants, leave! No problem. As another poster pointed out, you are a commodity element in the computational environment. Act like one; if the boss (or other aspect of work) should fash you then vote with your feet.
... with a short half-life. You could argue about it (and you would be right) but the opposition's position will simply become more entrenched and intractable -- or your could "go along with it" and then two weeks later you will all be listening to your music again
Ok, let's give a chance or at least try to understand the retard. I have to monitor a couple of programmers and is really boring having to yell them because their music is too high; or having to touch them for that sake.
Try to understand the real reasons; maybe you can get a compromise just by lowering the headphone volume.
The classic book Peopleware had some excellent disussions about this issue. Like most productivity-related things, there is good news and bad news.
There is an excellent discussion in that book about how productivity of coders is impacted by the number and frequency of distractions. That helps your case.
On the other side, there was another great discussion about listening to music while programming. They referred to a study (at MIT, I think) where two groups were given a series of puzzles to solve. One group while listening to music, the other while not listening to music. Here's the rub: all of the puzzles had a "brute force" solution and a much simpler "aha!" solution. None of the people listening to music found the "aha!" solutions, and about half of the people not listening to music did. Now depending on your situation and the kind of code you are writing, you might want or need those "aha!" solutions and probably ought to skip the music.
Personally I find music distracting.
However from experience in a programming environment, many programmers put on the headphones in an attempt to tune everyone else out and concentrate. When I see the headphones I don't interrupt unless it is something really important.
How right you are.
The interesting thing is that an environment like that, there are 2 political messages that become a lot more appealing:
1) blame some minority group of people for all your woes: Mexican immigrants, black people, communists, Jews, Muslims, etc. In short, fascism.
2) band together with the other exploited workers to put a stop to oppressive management. Workers of the world, unite! In short, communism.
And when you look for the last time both of those messages really took hold, you get Europe in the early 20th century.
I am officially gone from
For me it's a matter of music I know versus Music I don't. At my job as a software developer for a sales company the office is always loud. So I need music to drown out people discussing there projects in the cube next to me, or sales ringing the "I just closed a deal bell". I find instrumental music of all kinds great for blocking the background noise. If the music has lyrics I need to have already heard the song a few times otherwise I get distracted by the songs lyrics. I don't mean to eavesdrop, but without headphones I get distracted by ever conversation in earshot. If my boss said no more headphones, I'd need to find new work ASAP. It would be too frustrating otherwise. So anyone else think it's a matter of music you know versus music you don't?
"The upgrade of thought is continuous"
If your boss is so controlling that he won't even let you hear things without his permission, there is no way he will ever listen to your input on anything that matters. It's time to find another job.
geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
I work all day and every day to music. It blanks out the background noises like servers whirring, ducks quacking and planes on the bombing run. Luckily I work from home and am self-employed.
Pro Coffee Drinker
Fire off a memo/email to the boss and HR every time you're distracted by the ambient noise.
Guy comes to fill the vending machines? That's a memo.
Someone in a nearby cube on the phone? That's a memo.
Boss walks through the cubes talking to someone else? That's a memo.
Make the point that unless you either have a private office with a door, OR SOME METHOD OF ISOLATING THE AMBIENT DISTRACTIONS IN YOUR CUBE, you're going to continue documenting every time you're distracted due to his stupidity.
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
Now that you cannot listen to music, simply introduce random segments of code that mysteriously are reminiscent of the conversations you are now forced to hear in your noisy work environment.
Either he will repeal the stupid new policy or you will get fired for not producing. But lets be serious, if that's the kind of person your boss is, do you really want to be working there anyways?
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
It's easier to create a lot of noise than it is to completely drown it out.
Programming is a hobby for me, but I take it very seriously and hate distractions. The problem is I live directly under the approach for an airport.
My solution? Power up the fan tray of my renderfarm.
There's a programmer at work who prefers his workstation to be located amongst the server racks. I fully understand why.
In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
For me, complete silence is the best way to program. At work, that's impossible and the people I work around practically yell pointless chatter all day, so music becomes the best second choice.
:)
I have noticed that music actually hinders my ability to program slightly. I am not as "in the zone" with music playing, but it is MUCH easier to concentrate with a song you can tune out than with people laughing and talking about their weekends (or even work related talk).
People that don't require that level of concentration at work don't (and can't) understand...scheduling meetings, talking on the phone, writing emails, and multitasking is much easier to do without concentration compared to wrapping your head around hundreds of lines or thousands of code and how they all interact. I think programming without concentration would be nearly impossible for me, and more importantly would be dangerous...music avoids that.
Sigh, cubicles suck! Thankfully, I have an office!
Everybody's different.
When I'm in the shop, doing physical work, I love music.
But when I'm doing mental work, like programming or math, I prefer silence. The more slienter the beter.
But... by far the worst work environment I have ever endured was sharing a cubicle with a guy who talked loudly on the phone, about sports, real loud, all the time.
If the boss wants to be a dick then throw it back at him with an official ADA request at HR for a reasonable accommodation of a white noise system to block out the office conversations that are triggering your ADD. I've actually worked at places that use white noise systems to create privacy, and the ones that actually work are quite expensive and have to be installed in the entire work area. Add a footnote to the request that if only your dickhead boss would let you use your iPod they wouldn't have to go through the expense.
it is more about how you can persuade your boss to accept the fact, that music can be very helpful for concentration.
it is definitely proved that music influences behaviour. well you don't even need a statistical study/prove for that, but you can even find those. statistically in medical studies it was found out, that e.g. classical music in certain tempi can shorten the gap between long term and short term memory - it can be an intensive learning help. other people use music in certain tempi (i would rather call it noise though) to help them reach a state of meditation or lucid dreaming (and i am not talking about religious meditation here only). you can even fall asleep while watching flashlights blinking 4 times a second or something, so other senses also influence brain patterns.
one can dance to drum and base without drinking or doing other drugs and still go high just by closing ones' eyes (an experiment i found rather interesting, even if i dislike the music) - but not only rhytm does influence our brain, also there is emotional influence:
everyone who felt the power and urge to act, while listening to hard music as metal, and watched crowds go crazy in concerts, can completely admit: music does influence us also emotionally - it can not only change our brainpatterns by rhytmic influence, but also change our feelings by emotional influence.
concentration needs a certain level of awareness. keeping yourself in a vivid rhytm with music, enjoying your work with it, is always a great help. so it would suggest, that not the listening itself can be the benefit or the problem, but the kind of music you play. i could never code with trance, except i need the music to calm me down, while starting to work in the morning with rammstein is mostly my preference. it depends on your character. sometimes you need to calm yourself down, or wake yourself up. if you perfectly know this, you can explain all this and even help others to see how music can help - or distract them.
but the matter here is a boss, who thinks he knows, what is good for everyone. confronting him in any way might be a bad idea, since every human starts to be somekind of stubborn if his beliefs and ideas are challenged. making him understand your standpoint, and to clarify, that music is not used to have fun at work without really being productive may need a lot of diplomatic finesse. maybe start with accepting your boss'es beliefs and try them out. try it without music first. and maybe try to connect to him personally, suggesting him, what you have found out by trying out his way of work. maybe you will find out productivity does increase sometimes. sometimes it may lead downwards.
by becoming clear of why you have the urge to listen to music, where it might distract, and where it might be helpful, and by creating playlists for different emotional and wakeness-statusses can be a good step to understand music influence on yourself, and if you have the moment you might be in a position to present this to your boss.
one thing is clear: your boss is right about one thing, listening to music, without knowing how it affects you (even if intuitionally normally humans tend to pick music according to their state of mind) can be more distracting, or entertaining, than helping. where your boss is in error, that not listening to music will be benefitial in the long term. talking to each other can be much more distracting, distractions around you, too. you could even fall asleep because the copymachine next door makes exactly 4 copies a second.
for me, music can be a great help, but sometimes i turn it off, since there are times, where i just realize it distracts me more than it helps me.
If he is doing stuff like trying to control what you listen to he will dick you over in countless other ways as well.
You will never be happy working for this worthless creep. Find another job and when you leave be sure that you make it widely known why. Sooner of later senior management will realize what is going on and why they are constantly losing good people.
Or the company will die.
I worked for a place like this. I sat at my desk being unproductive for about a year and a half because they couldn't figure out that people don't all work the same way. It was the most frustrating and miserable experience of my programming career.
Most bosses don't care. Most aren't smart enough people to do anything but bark marching orders. The worst ones actually think they know your job, and how to do it better than you.
Walk away. Take your time. Find a job you love, and pursue it. I finally landed a job where I could work my own way. I have been very productive and happily employed for a year now.
I'm way late to this conversation, but you can objectively say that your boss is wrong.
General consensus in scientific community is that office noise involving speech associated with open cubicle environments can have a significant negative effect on job performance, job satisfaction, and stress levels of employees. Office "white noise" (ie: people walking, doors opening/closing, printers, keyboards, etc.) have much less of or an insignificant effect.
As for listening to music, the same applies but results vary depending on the individual. Music that is interpreted by the individual listener primarily on a melodic or rhythmic level have a positive effect on mental-spatial performance. Lyrics in songs that are not tuned out by listeners generally has the same negative effect as office noise involving speech.
However, as others have noted, the decision your boss is making may not (or likely isnt') be based on evidence and may be prompted by something else unrelated to job performance (music is just the scapegoat).
I'd say the best thing to do is make sure before/after effects of are objectively measured (not just for performance but also for job satisfaction).
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
This is true for everyone -- it's just that some people don't realize its impact. There is no such thing as a good multitasker. The more you pile on, the less well you do at the core task.
If I'm busy working and trying to concentrate on something, music is both very soothing and "up-beat" to get me into "gear" for the work, as well as "block out" the outside distractions.
People are much less likely to disturb you, if you have headphones on.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
This is an extreme, and inaccurate oversimplification. There are thousands of unemployed programmers, but honestly most of them are shitty and I would never hire them. During this current downturn we interviewed about 25 developers for an open position and found 2 acceptable candidates.
Plus, you invest a lot of time and effort training someone in how to work at your company with your development process. It takes them time to become familiar with the code they're working on. Employees in general, and coders in particular are not simple cookie cutter replacements and your boss knows this. The average cost to bring a new coder up to speed measures in the 10s of thousands of dollars.
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
I feel I can communicate quite effectively with my fingers here. Let's try:
Team meetings occur for a reason, and frequently, if you are working within the constructs of a development methodology.
I don't know about you, but much of the 'team-ness' comes from communication with IM, through documentation, and during your daily scrum, not to mention off-site lunches.
Pair programming can certainly occur with music, and I don't buy for a moment the idea that separation between developers means separation within development. Not to mention, Pair should be a temporary thing - a way to surmount a momentary problem.
Cultural differences factor in, to be sure. Many of the programmers I have worked with from the Indian subcontinent would not be able to function in 90dB noise, whereas the guys from the States wouldn't have it any other way. The same can be said for Canadians, and their counterparts from Eastern Europe.
I have worked with Germans - Project Leads - who descend into a 1980's Berlin club scene soundtrack the moment a question has been satisfactorily answered.
There are no absolutes, Thank Fucking God.. Not in method, not in quality, and not in approach. For this, I am thankful.
I bet this guy was promoted from within and never had any education to speak of in management. He sounds like some small-minded control freak that has to do something public to establish his authority.
In short, your manager/supervisor is being VERY short-sighted.
My background and degree is in management. Graduated with high honors, yada, yada, etc. I managed a group of tech writers, illustrators, a web-dev, and java programmer. The bottom line is that you, the manager, work for the people within the department for which you are responsible. Part of that responsibility means establishing an environment that the people find to be comfortable and to their liking (within reason). That means pics of their family, pets, and music. If the people are taking orders or doing support via the phone, then music might not work. But programming, writing, etc is completely acceptable. The more people like their work environment, the better they perform. That's just common sense.
Your manager is the primary reason I broke off a career in electronics/tech writing to go into management. I was sick and tired of seeing people that thought only in terms of power and control in positions of management.
I'd suggest doing some research. I'm reasonably sure that you can find something to confirm that a pleasant work environment enhances productivity. As long as nobody is playing AC-DC Back in Black at 11, music is completely acceptable. Mozart, Fluke, Beatles, Howlin' Wolf, even Lawrence Welk can probably relax a person to focus even more effectively on their job. And some people don't care for music while working. Maybe they need to be close to a window or tucked away in a quiet corner.
Print this comment out and leave it anonymously on your manager's desk.
Hey Manager person, take a clue from a guy who did 15 years as a manager in the medical electronic device industry and whose dept was one of the most effective, most productive in the organization (no bragging intended, just the way it was). Back off. If people want music, let them have it. Don't be a fool. Trying to control creative people and force them into some ill-conceived concept of a work environment will cause the really good talent to leave. Remember that you work for them. You are their advocate. And once you start behaving like one, you will inspire loyalty, commitment, and determination within the people that work with you.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
unfortunately the real issue here isn't the distraction of music. the real issue meets at a point between management (those with the power of change) not understanding the full process and job of their subordinates and the lack of trust that MUST be placed in those that work for you. by corporates pyramid structure's very nature, the further removed one is from another position in the tree, the less one will know and understand another's job and tasks (in form, function, execution, and importance). this is a fact that is hard to accept for most with power because it means giving up some of that power (or at least not wielding it) and trading it for trust. also, if they have hired you to perform a task, they have to trust that you're doing that task, methods and perceived distractions aside. if they feel that the music is distracting you from your peak performance, then the real issue is that you're not performing as well as they want and the music is their diagnosis of a symptom. treating the symptom is almost never the right answer. i would (and have) challenge them to take corrective action on the disease. if you are under performing, have them write you up for it. if they can't document the performance issue as a performance issue then they aren't eliminating distractions by killing off the headphones they are stabbing in the dark at an experiment. an experiment based on a guess which is based solely on someones personal feelings about how they personally work, performing completely dissimilar tasks that have a completely different method and expected outcome. when this became an issue for me in my work place i transitioned to a telecommuter position.
Analogous arguments have been made by worried, but uninformed, parents about videos games leading to violence. There is no evidence that it's true. One should never create policy based on personal beliefs.
If there's a productivity problem and the manager is trying to change things, then I would suggest you rally the troops and gather ideas, present your manager with some useful tips. If s/he is unwilling to listen, take your skills elsewhere. There are better managers. Perhaps more accurate effort estimation is needed - this could be a case of just too much work for too little money. If you don't take action to resolve the apparent productivity problem and hope that the manager "does his job" by taking full responsibility for the productivity problem, then you need to find a new job - the team is broken.
With respect to managers everywhere - a team without a manager is like a team without an objective. Someone has to keep things in check or the customer will no longer pay the bills - and all of your jobs are out the window.
If this is a political problem where the manager is "safe" from ever being questioned, then a mutiny may be at hand for an uninformed/unwilling manager. I've seen it happen to managers who impose nonsense policy on their teams. In this case, the team had very high attrition of the engineering staff.
My credentials: successful professional developer and technical lead for 6 years (getting paid for my hobby - woohoo!), promoted to manager of software development teams for 3 years. Over the course of my management tenure, the team size and budget both doubled roughly with about 12 engineers in the budget before I moved on. Went back to being an analyst/developer because making money was not my only objective. Now I can effectively support my manager with useful feedback that can make everyone on the team successful. I am on a totally kick-a$$ team where everyone respects the others' positions and responsibilities. Play together, win together.
Whistle while you work, Hitler is a twerp, he's half-barmy, so's his army, whistle while you work!
Your boss is an idiot. Programming requires concentration. Sure, its a bit antisocial to be zoned out into music and not listening to the latest gossip about Tiger, but tough. To get into complex code, you need to think about it. Headphones in cubieville are requied for large percentages of the developers I've known. I've been in this racket for 40 years, and worked at companes with as many as 6000 developers. For myself, I only use headphones when I must, I prefer working from 10PM until 4AM when the house is silent and I can work without any interuptions.
So look for a new job with less of a PHB and on the day you quit, leave a copy of the book on his desk.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
...but that's just me. It's easier for me to tune out office background noise than music, since I like music.
The important point is that your boss is being an idiot and you need to walk in there and tell him he's being an idiot. And if you're afraid to do that it means you need a different job because you ABSOLUTELY NEED to be able to do that.
If you don't like the prattle put some ear plugs in. No wonder software is mostly crap if you lot are listening to music whilst writing it!
Perhaps if you could find some "special" orthopedic headphones for his pointy head he could see if music could help him!
Unfortunately, this is classic PHB behavior. "I don't like the look of what you're doing so I'm going to make up a spurious reason to forbid it, and if you challenge my spurious reason I'll perceive it as a personal attack."
_the happy geek
Right now there are fifty guys in line for your job. Your manager can replace you with another monkey in clothing faster than you can say "But I like music."
Where are you getting your information? In my entire career as a software developer, I have never found this to be true.
When I have interviewed, I have usually been competing against five or six other candidates, and often the differences between us weren't trivial...some of us were clearly better fits than others.
When I have helped my company interview, the applicants trickled in. Maybe one a week would apply. And many of them were misfits for the position. It was actually quite difficult to find authentic technical talent that fit our needs. Twice we had to give up and hire someone who was much greener than what we wanted, not because our demands were wild and unreasonable, nor because we we were offering a below-market salary, but because the talent just wasn't there.
Where do you live?
There are multiple reasons why listening music could increase productivity, including intellectual productivity :
1. Music will isolate you from your environment. As such, it is a kind of silence.
2. Music could help you reach a productive mood. When I code at home, for pleasure, learning and experimenting, I listen to movies/games soundtracks. Which means that when I code at work, correcting lines of dumb and dumber code, listening the same soundtrack will just put me on "great programming mood" instead of "wanting to kill the f*cking moron braindead enough to write this collection of bugs called program")
3. To be distracted, you must be surprised. Phone ringing will surprise you. Your boss bullying you with stupid decisions will surprise you. Music you already heard, no matter how violent, won't.
Now, about your boss:
1. If he never coded, his viewpoint has zero value. You should suggest him to divide his salary by 3 because you believe it will make him work 3 times harder to reach his objectives.
2. When messing with other's lives and works, he should at least bring some kind of proof, instead of using faith as an excuse to bully his employees.
3. Studies showed than working overtime DO decrease the quality of the produced code. Does he have a strict policy about that, too, or only for subjects that will make him appear like Dilbert's Pointy-Haired-Boss ?
For the last two years of my bachelors and all of my MBA, when ever I studied, read, wrote papers, I always had music in the background. I went from and average GPA of 2.1 to 3.75 for that period. Many years later I would read a study that tested the effect on learning and listening to music. Consistently, students who listened to music while reading retained more then students that did not. The reasoning is that while concentrating on something technical the music engages the creative, thus making for connections in the brain and thus easier to recall. So your programmers are in a problem solving mode, listening to music, doesn't this apply as well. Making each programmer a better problem solver, better analyst...etc? Concentrating and listening to music makes you a better programmer!
Bonds and Stock values *are* based on the people in a company, and even on the quality of the people and their group quality... companies can and do borrow against the group of people, and "sell" them as spin-off's, etc...
If the programmers want music, let them listen to their music. It's no cost to the company, not a distraction to the other employees (unless they start singing along with their headsets), so what's the downside?
A happy employee is a productive employee.
how long will it take to get a new person up to speed?
I listen to classical symphonies, but I also find that listening to ballet (Swan Lake is a perfect, classic example) is even better than symphonies, because while there are technically more breaks in the music than a symphony, there tends to be a single narrative flow in a ballet.
What I mean is that in a symphony each movement has its own underlying theme, upon which variations are built. Ballet, on the other hand, tends to carry the same themes through the entire work (although often more than one - usually one for each major character).
I'm very easily distracted by sound and need to choose very carefully what I listen to when I need to concentrate. I always seem to come back to ballet.
It's Saturday. I'm at work. Listening to my music and yes, programming. I know it is not the best of times, but It is definitely time for you to look for better employment opportunities.
Get together with the other programmers and plan with them to send emails to your boss each time anyone is particularly loud and distracting. Something along the lines of: "x is being loud and is distracting me from my work. Please ask them to keep the volume down. Thanks" If he gets 30 or 40 emails a day for a month, maybe he will reconsider.
My first instinct (and, it seems, the instinct of everyone here) is to decry this as lunacy -- of COURSE we work better with music! At least, I believe *I* do!
And I do. But I also am aware that without data to back it up, it's entirely possible that actual data would prove the manager right. I don't think it's at all likely, but it's just as baseless for us to claim that music helps us as it is for the manager to claim it hurts us. So I wonder if there's ever been any research.
For my part, I believe music helps me code, because it isolates me from outside distractions -- noise, etc. I've got all my MP3s in one playlist and usually I pick and album and just let it go; occasionally I'll find that it's been an hour and I've gotten a crapton of coding done, and I look at the playlist and I have no memory of hearing the album that just finished. It's like I go into a trance.
Of course, as the go-to guy for troubleshooting at my company, this rarely happens, because I get interrupted on average every 15 minutes or so by someone asking me to fix something, or look into something, or answer a question, or receive an urgent email or IM, etc. I probably should make a habit of closing Outlook for an hour and putting Pidgin on DND. If it really is urgent, you can walk over to my desk. Heh.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Let me guess, you work for IBM?
Comment of the year
While working at Niles Audio it was sort of REQUIRED that we had music playing, but then again we were debugging the firmware for a whole house audio system. I usually had the test chassis receiver tuned to a classical music station on FM or Sirius/XM. Mozart or Pachelbel was probably the most productive music to have in the background, the 1812 or William Tell overture the least!
There are 50 marketing guys lined up for the job, but not 50 engineering guys.
As a boss of several system administrators, I have employees who do wear headphones and those who do not. What I seen is that my younger employees wear the headphones, while the more seasoned veterans do not. I actually prefer that the younger staff wear their headphones, if they cannot hear the chatter around them they are far less likely to participate in it and thus be distracted from doing work. My staff which has been around in IT for many years seem to handle tuning out of other conversations better. I personally do not wear headphones as I have far too many people who are in and out of my office all day long, but trust me that more days than not I wish I could. Our IT department on a whole is pretty well split on those who do wear headphones, and those who do not, both on the development side and the infrastructure side. My suggestion would be to approach the boss with your reasoning on why you where headphones. Lead this towards the need for having a more quiet work environment in order to concentrate on your work. Make suggestions that the job of those around you lend towards a more vocal occupation, where your work requires a less distracting atmosphere. Ask the boss how you can work together to achieve a quieter work environment so that your headphones are not necessary. Let he\she try to come up with the idea themselves that they also need to address the issue of noise with the other workers around you. Hopefully letting the boss see that the reasoning for headphones and music is to drown out the noise and not necessarily for the enjoyment of listening to music. If this all fails, and probably not the betst "boss" thing to suggest, I might approach the boss and suggest that you are not listening to music, but to technical podcasts on new programming methods, security, whatever, and that by listening to you are actually gaining invaluable experience that is costing the company nothing additional. They can think of it as free training. If you don't have any of this on your ipod now, I might download something as to have as "proof". I actually have one guy who works for me that is not into music, but does listen to security podcasts as his "music" of choice. Us boss types always like it when an employee is gainging knowledge to benefit the company and it is not costing us money out of pocket to do so.
"The boss recently sent an email just to the programmers demanding that we do not use our music players at work because he thinks it distracts us from our jobs and causes us to make mistakes."
Your boss is lying to you. Someone from another area complained that they are not allowed to listen to music like you programmers are. He's come up with a bullshit reason in order to sate the others.
First, be the best programmer in your group. This will give you confidence, power & security you need to either take the boss aside and say, "With all due respect sir, shove it," or get a job elsewhere. Really, if you are efficient, and your quality is exceptional, there's nothing for him to worry about... unless he really is worried about something...
The boss aught to be someone who is either a stellar programmer, or the most politically astute in your group. If he is not the former, then chances are, he knows it. Either be his technical guy, or go talk with "the guy" in your group about this that he does trust.
So, If you know your boss is not an ass & you have some kind of rapport with him, try to find out what this is really all about... Ask him, for instance, if instead you can help him with code quality metrics & see what you guys are like WRT the rest of the industry. Maybe you guys really do suck! Maybe you guys have the appearance of sucking to the rest of the company? Maybe your manager is really desperate because his boss told him that his group's going to outsourced because the company can get a better deal in India or China? Find out what's really on his mind... If it's something like outsourcing... maybe you can come up with a better outsourcing plan that "evolves" your group and makes your top programmers the primary architects & the primary communicators with the SW and testing teams?
Lastly, There's always the possibility that your boss really is an ass. So, if your boss is an ass about this, he's probably being an ass about other things... Talk with your co-workers (especially the ones of the opposite sex), and then you're going to have to start getting political. (Be the friendly guy in the elevator that enjoys meeting new people when there's only one other person going up with you. Be that guy that whips up a quick sed or python script for someone outside his group.) DO NOT TALK WITH HR, but with a couple of senior staff friends outside your group. (Maybe they will share valuable things with you as well?) Both your rep. and the rep. of your boss _will_ filter to the right level & will get dealt with one way or another. In my career, I've had two directors (at two different companies) demoted this way; whereas, I was elevated in one way or another.
I use ballistic headphones in the office, you know the sort that are used at gun ranges. The implication are interesting as well should someone decide they want to interrupt the guy who is already wearing his ear protection from the shooting range. :)
Nothing breaks a programmer out of flow state more efficiently than Loud Larry two cubes over, and nothing keeps a programmer in flow state better than music while they're coding. Your boss must be completely incompetent to not know that, and should not be in charge of programmers at all. You should go over his head and get him fired.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
True.
You do, I do, and most people here do. But the boss? Nope.
Your typical PHB doesn't even understand that. He'll probably think it means you hired someone who can't type very fast.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Forget you. You are not valuable. You are an expense. You are a necessary evil that cuts into the profits. Why do you think the company stock goes up when a bunch of you are laid off? If you were valuable assets, then the company could borrow against your value like it can against inventory and accounts receivable. You could be sold or traded like inventory or the old company car.
I hope I never have you for a boss. I can't imagine anyone who'd want to work for such a piece of shit mentality.
Right now there are fifty guys in line for your job. Your manager can replace you with another monkey in clothing faster than you can say "But I like music." IT does not matter what your experience or your skills or education, you are a cog in a machine and when you squeak you get replaced with some less squeaky cog.
Obviously, you never worked for a decent firm that values its programmers. Some idiotic thing like listening to headphones (closed ear anyway) should not be an impediment to workplace politics in a programming firm, period. Perhaps your company's management prefers to play power games at the expense of productivity....
Is your boss the one doing the programming? Ask him to code to distractions, not PowerPoints and Excel and see what his outcome is. Anyway, I'd still use the headphones. It's not a grounds for firing at least!
Simple - just reserve conference rooms with doors for the entire day. Get two developers each who are working on the same project so "it's a meeting." Close doors. Repeat daily.
fencepost
just a little off
Try wearing those foam ear plugs... personally, I would find another job. the job market isn't that bad in many parts of the U.S. for coders.
Companies do borrow against their own worth which is largely based on their employees. Nobody would refuse google a loan, because they've shown that their employees are innovative, productive and profitable. Nobody's going to be firing the fellow who came up with gmail and replacing him with the next cog...
So says the man that couldn't do my job if his life depended on it...
Bullshit. You are implying that laid off workers some how deserve to be laid off. There are plenty of companies out there who either went out of business or who have destroyed whole divisions to improve the bottom line. The developers at these companies are laid off through no fault of their own. Many are completely employable and, in fact, were employed up until recently before their business managers ran their company or their division into the ground.
Software development isn't rocket science. Connecting a front end to a database through a business layer doesn't take "the best and the brightest". What I found when I interviewed people is that the vast majority could do the job just fine. The reason candidates got turned down was because they didn't fit into our corporate culture. Typically, some manager got a hair up his ass about a turn of phrase that didn't sit well with him, so they shitcanned the candidate. Right now, companies can afford to be incredibly petty in their hiring decisions. And that is exactly how they're acting.
Music makes me code faster. When I am going into a code grind I will pop in some electronic music and start kicking some ass. The repetitiveness of the music really helps me with writing some of the same statements over and over. It also gives me a flow to keep up with. This type of music also makes it easy to tune out when I am working on a more critical section of the code.
If I was told tomorrow that I am not allowed to listen to music at work, I would immediately without even thinking twice start looking for a new job. It really sounds like this is the type of boss who would complain about me taking a 5 minute break to read Slashdot or whatever. Not the type of company I would work for. Treat your employees like humans not slaves, and you will get far more productivity out of them. Humans need a few minutes of casual browsing to help break up the day and reset them selves for the next steps in a project.
I couldn't work in an office that was completely silent. That's more distracting then anything and would drive me crazy.
Now of course I use headphones all the time. It would be very distracting to be forced to listen to a style of music that you aren't into. All coders are into different styles of hacking music. I know some that are into speed metal where others are into classical. Whatever works for ya.
When I am at home (working on my own projects) I will generally have a movie playing on the other screen. For the most part I don't really watch it except for the really cool action scenes. I watch movies that I have seen a number of times so I don't have to watch every little part.
A wise man told me once that you shouldn't look for a good job, look for a good boss.
until (succeed) try { again(); }
I wouldn't get much done without my music. What a lame policy!
bogey
you are looking at this all wrong - can have lots of *fun* with this while the policy is in effect.
for example, knowing that none of your fellow coders are wearing headsets now simply encourages loud tech discussions across the same cubespace. or even better, start bantering around marketing ideas with your fellow coders, which the marketers will overhear and become dragged into and *all* productivity will stop.
another obvious solution: if you need music to work and they don't let you listen to it using music players, you'll have to create your own. perhaps you can all sing something in harmonious unison across the cubespace - start with 99 bottles in binary.
There is also the issue of what kind of music.... i am really relaxing when i am hearing music... music is a big part of my life and was always there to relief me when i was on any situation of my life.... now its true that when you are trying to concentrate, especially in a programmer's job, music is just another outside and annoying noise.... but maybe someone, like me, can work while hearing some calm and chill music.... its like when you are studding of something.... maybe some music can help you chill... but ofcourse it can also help you get a headpain much faster... :D
so.... do what is more comfortable for you... if someone tell me that can do whatever while listening to music... i would be no surprise cause thats the way some people are....
screw your boss... just make sure he is not right to this..... ;)
This policy sounds like something from a Dilbert cartoon. The boss must be particularly pointy-haired in this case.
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
Record the noise that bothers you and pipe it to the bast*rd PHB's office.
> to drown out all of the noise from everyone else.
"Corporate accounts payable, Nina speaking. Just a moment."
Although I cannot program with music on, I fully support the listening of music by my programming staff while they work. The use of headphones or earbuds is mandatory but outside of that they can listen anything as long as they feel it helps them work.This boss is an idiot IMO
Your boss is a micromanaging nincompoop. I had one of those once. Inserted himself into the minutiae of my job (and everyone else that worked for him). Many people left. I (stupidly) stuck it out. It was far too painful for far too long. Bad for my physical and mental health. But eventually he left (or should I say fired/layed off/etc. after months and months of complaints about him from just about everyone who worked for him and just about everyone that was forced to work with him).
Now I have a boss who keeps his hands off (unless it's needed) and makes sure that the people work for him have the tools they need to do their jobs effectively. He trusts his employees to make good decisions for themselves, and with that trust good decisions are generally what happens. He concerns himself with my long-term job satisfaction and goals. That's what a boss should do.
Your boss doesn't trust you to make good decisions for yourself. He/she thinks they know what's best for you to perform your best. They're foolish. If you think you're talented enough to find employment elsewhere, it's time to cut and run. Although things are better now, I really shouldn't have suffered with a miserable boss for as long as I did.
I was in a similar situation a few months ago. It had nothing to do with music but the general issue was the same. Boss trying to strut his authority over something trivial. For me it was a sign I should sum up my situation. I don't think trying to change his rule is the answer because something else will come up down the line. They don't have to employ you. You don't have to work there. Rule 1, don't up and quit. Start looking. If you get a job offer try to befriend an employee in the department and get an honest read on the place. Granted you will never find the perfect boss, but I think you can do better. I found a different job, jumped ship and haven't been happier. Not all bosses are evil. The best boss is someone you respect. As far as music goes. Most of the time I need it. Sometimes I have to shut it off but I find it helps me to be more creative. I'm better with it than without it. I would guess your boss doesn't like music so much. My advice, look, find, leave. Don't waste your time rocking the boat.
Holy crap, you got one in ten hireable? We have to filter over 100 to get one hire.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Unemployment is at a national level 10.0%. In certain fields and locations it is even higher. Sure, they all say get a new job, but that's easier said than done. Buck up. Listen to the boss man, because we are in a boss man economy. Now don't be shocked when 3 months down the road he comes up with another brain dead edict, he's in control and the 10.0% rate backs him up.
I last had an actual office of my own maybe 15 years ago. When we moved into cubicles one of the first things I did was bet headphones so I could listen to music when shout-into-speakerphone-man next to me started answering his voice mail on his speakerphone. One day my laptop cratered and I had to go borrow an empty office to repair it... the prattle from the next cubicle was so loud and distracting I couldn't even concentrate on installing Windows.
Your boss is on crack.
My productivity is measurably higher with music. Music doesn't distract me; it keeps my brain from getting distracted as easily.
This may be specific to particular clinical diagnoses, but I'd point out that if you have a reasonable number of programmers, you probably have at least a couple who are clinically autistic or on the edges of that spectrum, and use of personal music to control incoming stimulus, and allow improved function, is an actual thing doctors and psychologists recommend for aspies. Also, music with a solid beat appears to be very helpful to people with ADHD.
In short, your boss is being stupid. Music helps people think, and always has.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Such as this paper which found that music had no change on productivity. I know that personally listening to music helps me drown out office noise and I much prefer it when I am "in the zone" doing some programming or whatever.
Your boss makes decisions based on his assumptions rather than based on facts. i'm guessing he's religious as well.
or else!
You're assuming that the douchebag boss in question wouldn't hire one of the shitty ones. Or, indeed, that said boss would be able to tell which programmers *weren't* shitty. Or finally, that the boss would care.
That assumption is likely incorrect; were his boss in possession of even a tiny particle of cluefulness, this question wouldn't come up.
The big issue here is the boss' PERCEPTION that developers are not producing at a level he expects or that the code being produced is crappy. The music edict is just a proxy for his real concern. It is critical for you to make sure the boss doesn't have this perception about YOU specifically. If so, you need to either find a way to change the boss' perception of you, or find another job. Most likely the boss' perception is general, and is not based on any real metrics of productivity or quality. What might help is suggesting to the boss how to collect such metrics, and more importantly how to present to his management that his team is very productive and has the highest quality work. It's very likely that the boss is being pressured by his management, so giving him the tools to fight back will help your teams' chance of avoiding the next round of layoffs. This is good for everyone: the boss gets credit, you are adding value, and everyone is aligned with the company's goals.
... and sing while you work.
Preferably some of the songs that slaves used to sing while working on cotton plantations.
Have gnu, will travel.
Without music I'd have quitted that job much sooner than I did.
shouldn't the bottom line be: if you consistently meet or beat your deadlines when the music is cranked, crank on. if listening to music negatively impacts your productivity, then no music for you, bunky. is the manager's goal to set one-size-fits-all policies? or embrace the diversity of the programmer pool for the benefit of the company? just wondering. i usually have music on, and find that the right music will support proposal writing, coding, debugging, whatever. if you can't listen and work at the same time, don't.
Coding can't be done without a decent playlist... Kraftwerk-Computerworld, anything from Shpongle, Wizzy Noise, Infected mushroom. make.
I work in a "pod" environment, which is basically row after row of four desk shared cubicles. Between phone conversations, foot traffic, other people typing, phones ringing, co-workers conversing, etc, it is almost impossible to concentrate for more than a few minutes at a time without headphones and music. I get way more done and make fewer mistakes when I have my ipod at work. I really couldn't imagine going through a full day without it. I even keep a back up set of headphones and an ipod charger in my desk just in case. I realize that some people "rock out" or sing along to their music, and that could be distracting in an office environment, but I don't do any of those things. For me, it's just background noise that puts me in a pleasant mood and helps me work more efficiently.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/julian_treasure_the_4_ways_sound_affects_us.html
The interesting thing is that an environment like that, there are 2 political messages that become a lot more appealing:
1) blame some minority group of people for all your woes: Mexican immigrants, black people, communists, Jews, Muslims, etc. In short, fascism.
2) band together with the other exploited workers to put a stop to oppressive management. Workers of the world, unite! In short, communism
Wow, a +3 insightful, for only being able to see the extreme edges of the possible spectrum. Well done.
For the record, the normal term used for 2) would be a "union" or a "workers council", which, although also leaning towards the left, is a little more feasible in a modern capitalist society than switching to the state owning all means of production. A company may be able to replace a single cog, but if all the cogs get together and give management a big hearty fuck you, they tend to react somewhat differently (doesn't stop them from trying to get rid of the ringleader a little while later ofc).
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Im sure its not the fact that your listening to music its the fact that hes upset he/she cant listen to music while working. I would do what someone else here suggested and use large earmuffs with an MP3 player small enough to fit inside with the headset and the wire under the loop.
2) band together with the other exploited workers to put a stop to oppressive management. Workers of the world, unite! In short, communism.
That word, "communism", keeps being thrown around these days, but it doesn't mean what you think it does.
No, what you're talking about it is "unionization," also known as "free association," also known as "bargaining." Funny how the same people that go on and on about "freedom" and the need for businesses to band together, don't want individual contractors that enable the businesses to function to exercise that same right. No, instead they are to remain resources for exploitation. They are to know their place, and not tot speak ill of their betters, and be grateful that only half the scraps they were given were taken away, but by no means exercise collective power.
New Rule: Anyone invoking "communism" or "socialism" into an argument, pulled a Godwin.
I do my work. "Boss" doesn't like how? I go to her/his boss, say: I am working. "So-so" is distracting ME. You no like my work?
Yes, this work(ed) up through 24 levels of "management" until I had lunch regularly with the corporate director, and was in the research lab. I still wear my headphones, and listen to NPR, where I also spent 10 years, and try to drown the drollery. If I can get reception. (Can't ever get the local community radio, damnit.)
I did, once, the day before the annual holiday break, bring a big old boom-box and spew a Yeastie Girls tape into the entire building. Got lots of heads pop out of offices!
And when you look for the last time both of those messages really took hold, you get Europe in the early 20th century.
Good Europe embraced lazzie faire capitalism and crushed unions, because otherwise think where their working economies, trade surpluses, top tier educational and healthcare system, and six weeks paid vacations would get them? Oh wait...
I've always found music too distracting while I work, and suboptimal for masking speech. I recommend good headphones and a pink noise mp3 track.
Milton: ".. ummm, but i wuz told i could listen to the radio at a reeeeesonable volume.."
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/julian_treasure_the_4_ways_sound_affects_us.html
I say try it for a month.. and show them it makes everyone less productive.. Also start arguments about people tapping their nails, having restless legs.. etc...
Just because it works, Doesn't make it right. - JTM
Ask your boss what the REAL reason is.
At my work we had a problem with people putting on headphones and tuning out completely. We resorted to throwing pens at each other to get the others' attention. It's especially irritating when you walk up to tap somebody on the shoulder and you see that they aren't even working but surfing the web.
We solved that issue (and more) by making it a requirement to have an IM client going at all times. For those times where people really did need to focus, it was accepted to set your status to 'away', as long as it wasn't set that way a majority of the time.
I just thought of something interesting: would having the state run everything be a net plus or minus to a programmer? It would imply a massive bureuecracy, and a bureuecracy is designed to eliminate human thought and judgement as much as possible; it bureuecrat has a set of rules he's supposed to follow in all circumstances, never mind his own common sense, which is the source of both jokes and inefficiency. In other words, a bureuecracy is a machine; having it run the country is like having a kind of computer (with the rules as a program) in charge. Theoretically, a programmer would be ideally suited to manipulating this machine to get what he wants.
Of course corruption re-introduces a human element, so you'd want to insist on a transparent system with as uncharismatic and weak leaders as possible. I'm not sure if you can get a communistic state without a revolution, and revolutions tend to put charismatic people in charge, so that's a problem to solve first.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Why didn't you just use headphones and an mp3 player?
Er, out of speakers? Who chose the music? That sounds like a situation in which *I* would quit. I want to listen to the music I like - I don't want to be subjected to other peoples' music, or subject other people to mine. I wonder if everyone in your group was having fun and motivated by the music.. Maybe they were, but it certainly wouldn't be a fun situation for me.
Right now there are fifty guys in line for your job.
That would depend on what "your job" is. In my case, I'm just an entry-level developer, right out of college - but there aren't fifty guys in line for my job. (If there were, we wouldn't be having a hard time filling the thirty empty developer positions just in our division.)
Of course, my employer goes to fairly great lengths to ensure developers are happy. They wouldn't do something silly like ban headphones. (As it turns out, some companies actually respect their employees.)
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Music can be a distraction from work?
A silly notion, but pretend to be a PHB and it sort of makes sense.
What scares me is that PHBs and congress-people think alike.
Just wait: car radios will someday be banned because music can be a distraction from driving.
Personally, my favorite music for programming is Within Temptation.
For debugging, I like Flyleaf.
For writing documents, Shostakovich.
While driving, I usually listen to Cradle of Filth.
Writing code is something I CANNOT do with out music in the background. In fact, when I do any of my homework, I have music on in the background. I can't focus without it.
"I get that you're trying to increase our productivity by banning music. I like working here, and I want to be as productive as I can. That's why I want to tell you that there's a lot of ambient noise in the room, with people talking. And if I couldn't listen to music, this chatter would really make it hard for me to focus. Instrumental music makes it much easier for me to focus on my work and do what you're paying me to do. Would you be willing to consider an exception to the policy in my case?"
Non-vocal music also helps me focus, even when I'm in a quiet room. Some people are just wired this way. I think a lot of people understand this, and it's too bad your boss doesn't.
I have been in IT for 20 years, and have always listened to music at various times while at the office. I got my first programming job in '89 and occasionally listened to music at work on a Walkman (huh? Go ask your dad...) At my second IT job in the mid-90s in a role as a full time systems developer in western Canada the music listening became more serious. I had a full size Denon CD player, a rack-mount QSC 1100 amplifier and a pair of Sennheiser HD580 headphones (still have 'em but the foam lining needs to be replaced). Listening to something like White Zombie's Super Sexy Swingin' Sounds was pure paradise for me. I was fortunate to have my own office with a door (huh? an IT guy with an office with a door? ya right...); a colleague named Dave used to joke that it would be easy to come in and shoot me in the back of the head as I wouldn't here him coming when he goes postal... That office was quite tolerant of me and my habbits.
I moved into consulting in '97 and was often at different client sites, and it varied. I was shit on by one project manager who was critical of headphones, but over the years most people were OK with it. I now work in the UK and listen to music on my laptop with very small Sennheiser ear buds while on site at one of my clients. Nowhere as good as the HD580s, but more discrete. Recently an older generation manager voiced criticism of some staff listening to music at work. As recent as last year I was continually criticized by one colleague who only ever complained when I was listening to Guns and Roses' Live Era. Every bloody time. The office had put in higher density seating of 6 desk clusters, and when I was positioned looking at my screen, my right ear was in direct line with his left ear. Even though I was wearing ear buds, the guitars and Axel Rose's caterwauling manage to penetrate the seal and shot right through into his head. Only GnR, no other music bugged him. He was an temperamental drunken curmudgeon and I eventually moved away from him.
My experience is that I need silence when thinking, but after the thinking is done and it is time to tell the computer what to do, my brain goes into autopilot and the music helps pass the time as I punch the keyboard. This was most true when writing code. I thought in silence about the problem at hand, arrived at an approach or a solution, cranked up the tunes and then got down to work. Most "older generation" bosses don't understand this, but as they retire the habits of the younger generation will be more tolerated. I am 39 and have managed teams of people and can care less if staff listen to music while they work in IT. All I care about is the quality of work and their productivity.
Although our fields are vastly different, I suspect the actual work flow process between you coder guys and me - I'm a writer - is pretty similar. (Incidentally, I have to edit and proofread drafts and final versions with as little noise - music or otherwise - as possible. I find getting absorbed in the music DOES distract me in this one particular instance, and to do my job well, I have to be absolutely focused on the prose.) Lots of hammering on a keyboard, going back, revising, rereading, proofing, and so on - and I just want to chime in that I have an enormously difficult time writing without music. I tend to integrate the music with my work process; sure, I might focus on the music when a particular segment I love comes up, but after that I am energized and my writing has much more fire and flavor to it. When I don't have music, or the ambient music is boring, my work reflects that - it's dry, concrete, and uninteresting. Feel bad for you, man - drop that place as soon as you can find somewhere else to work. A manager that doesn't understand that music can motivate people to work harder is a manager that's just going to make things worse all-around.
I have to agree with a few other posters, nothing makes me more productive than listening to techno while I program (Specifically the DI.fm Eurodance channel). It almost feels like my thought processes get structured on top of the beat, using it is a foundation for the flow of my work. It is only really useful when I am actually writing the code though, when I am working on high level design I tend to turn it off. Weird thing is, I don't even really like techno. It isn't something I listen to at home, and I don't like the club scene. When I'm working though, nothing is better.
During this current downturn we interviewed about 25 developers for an open position and found 2 acceptable candidates.
There's a sad inevitability to this... I have been laid off twice (in 20 years, both times due to the company simply running out of money), and each time I was re-hired at the first "real" interview I went to, not interviews for the sake of fulfilling a requirement to interview candidates or something like that (and there were plenty of those in 2003...), but the bozos of the world are going to interview many many times before they get taken in somewhere - and even if the world is only 10% bozos, the worse they are, the longer they will rattle around the job search arena, possibly becoming expert in the art of resume' and cover letter writing to get those interviews.
Why do you think the company stock goes up when a bunch of you are laid off?
Stock market valuation is a poor indicator of a company's long term prospects. Next quarter numbers, maybe.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Let me guess: You're having an impossible time finding that guy with fifteen years programing experience, with five years experience on that niche program your company uses, a Master's degree in Computer Science, who needs no assistance relocating, willing to work 60+ hours a week, for $70,000/yr + crappy benefits?
There's TONS of talent out there right now. Get your H.R. person out of the resume-screening job and be a little flexible with candidates and you'll find them.
Es wird keine Musik, während Sie arbeiten! Jetzt arbeiten! Schnell!
If you're programming and not listening to 2112 then there 's something definitely wrong with your code.
This is a pretty stupid decision. I find that listening to music you like only relaxes you, puts you in a good mood and enhances your productivity. I myself listen to a lot of music when coding, and ever more than that I like to have TV shows like Simpsons, Seinfeld or other things I've seen a million times before in a small window on the screen, I work much better like that, has the same effects as listening to music and it definitely doesn't interfere with my work. When I was in the Israeli army, I used to go to sleep in the ~30-40 people tent with punk music blasting in my ears, just so all the noise from the people around would drown out, that's the only way I managed to fall asleep...
Your boss is micromanaging, self important, butt hole. I've managed sofware developers for 25 years in noisy cow size cubical farms.
You make mistakes because your human and perhaps you might even suck at what you do, not because of what you listen to.
If his team is making too many mistakes no amount of quiet or lack thereof is going to matter. We as professional software developers spend most of our time writing test cases, and executing unit tests and focus our efforts on functional and performance testing because we create something that has never existed before. We don't make cars on an assembly line. We don't make Twinkies where the next one looks exactly like that last 100,000,000 Twinkies that rolled off the assembly lines. Each and every thing we make is a unique creation. While there is a repeatable process to creation, the perfection of what we create is not a guarantee nor is it even expected.
If his vision of the world is one in which developers don't make mistakes, then he needs to get his head out of that grand canyon of a hole in his back side. ..... and you need to go get a job somewhere else.
Where are the mods with troll points?
While driving in a race your attention is 100% on the act of driving, but driving is many different things, and the primary focus of your attention shifts between them. On the straights it's shifting (or blocking the car behind you), as the corner comes up it's braking and setting up for the corner, then in the middle of the corner through the exit it's about throttle control (and perhaps back to blocking again). So there isn't a 100% focus on any one aspect of driving - in fact it's an excellent example of multitasking. The other aspects of driving take a back seat to whatever is most important at the time but they are still done with high precision. In fact you could say that all the tasks involved in driving take a back seat to visualizing and following your racing line (fastest path around the track), at least until something goes wrong with the driving!
All the time your subconscious is thinking two corners ahead and coming up with ways to improve on your previous lap.
Winning or losing a race probably has a lot less to do with maintaining some hyper-focus than experience and sharp reflexes. In fact focusing too much on one thing can cause you to miss something important. While losing focus for any significant amount of time or in a bad place would almost certainly put you into a wall, it's quite possible to leave the track without losing focus - you just need to be a tiny bit too aggressive on the controls and you're mowing grass. It might also be possible to lose focus without leaving the track - in high gear on a straight if there's no passing going on, you could get away with holding the steering wheel straight and the pedal to the floor, at least for a moment.
And yes I race as a hobby.
More on-topic, I prefer silence when programming - when I'm really into it the lack of sound doesn't bother me, but if I can't get silence music is my second choice. I listen to metal and various electronic stuff, Just as time can fly by in a silent environment, sometimes I realize that whole songs have gone by and I didn't notice them because of how focused I was.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
i am curious if this management neanderthal ever had to spend hours in a cube form before he got promoted into a position where he could do no harm. has he been bugging you for your TPS Reports?
here's an idea, just keep listening to music. if it escalates to the point of firing, sue them for wrongful termination...
I'm going to assume that you are otherwise a flawless code monkey with no history of mental illness... :)
Quit listening to music. Everyday, make one more purposeful mistake than the day before. Quit shaving. Come to work progressively more dissheveled than the day before. A few weeks in, sometime after lunch, jump up and scream "I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE SILENCE ANY MORE!!!" Run screaming out of the building and go huddle in the fetal position next to an outdoor A/C unit. When the guys in the white coats come just keep saying "do you have an iPod?" over and over.
Feign madness for a few relaxing weeks in the loony bin, file for permanent disability. You'll only make 80% of your current pay, but you'll have made your point.
There are dozens of scientific studies that show the benefit of white noise. If you aren't sitting at your cube head banging or playing air guitar, just ignore the rule. You'll probably get promoted to management.
Refer your boss to the programming classic "Peopleware." Music does hurt your ability to solve certain coding problems, but for others it doesn't make any difference (mundane coding or data entry). So listen and turn it off when you need to think. Trouble is the other noise in cubicle land: phone calls, chit chat, socialites, loud meetings and other people with music turned up. When you need silence there is no escape. I listen to music to try to drown this crap out.
http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Teams-Second/dp/0932633439
If your boss is that stupid and you can't ge rid of him, get rid of the job. Anyway, if he persists on that direction, probably, soon there will be no job left... been there, done that ;-)
First off every single I.T. unit I've worked in has NEVER been mixed in with accounting, customer service and marketing.
In all we were allowed to install iTunes or WMP, or whatever preferred. We could play CD's, or what we want with headphones or earphones. If it was iTunes we all shared libraries.
Your boss is off base here. Cite music in cars as an example, or music used while studying.
Remember the portrait of the "Government Software Developer" painted in Snow Crash? This sounds like where you work.
If your higher ups won't let you make the decision to listen to music, or not, on your own, I simply cannot imagine that they are going to be handing you opportunities to stretch your development skills into valuable (pronounced 'marketable') new directions.
While the timing is horrible, I'd suggest you begin the search for a new job. Allow your current company to turn into HP without you.
OT, but would you say it's OK to surrender essential liberty for other purposes, such as to curtail greenhouse gases or provide socialized medicine? I'm not sure why the trade-off is poor only if security is what you're bargaining for.
Then you work in an exceptional location. From what I've seen, IT (unlike every other professional and non-professional field I've come in contact with) gives their employees "spin up" time. Nursing? Several months, at least, before you're expected to be comfortable in the position. Engineering? Think a significant portion of a career. Shit, even food service gives employees a couple weeks to become comfortable in the role before letting the employees be autonomous.
Every IT job I've had has been "here's your desk, now get to work". Not only have these positions expected me to intrinsically know how their specific market segment worked (and work the IT systems around them) but no time was given for familiarity with the specific role (which, in IT, is going to be substantially different from job to job, unlike the previously mentioned fields).
Granted, I've had a high amount of employer ass-hattery to contend with, but I have not found my experience to be all that exceptional in this area. IT sucks for being a cog in a wheel; we're largely seen as akin to building maintenance (at best) or janitorial (at worst) when in supportive roles, or as nicely dressed factory workers when working in a larger organization.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
The boss does NOT decide whether I listen to music or not. Period.
...Nobody can stop the music!
aaaw comeon!
Quit and start your own programming company, play your own music and out compete your boss in the market place.
A research lab at one of the big chip makers issued me earmuffs, as they did to all employees. Note: This is a research lab, which looks a lot like any cubicle environment at a company like Google, Microsoft, etc. This worked very well, and to this day, I consider noise-blocking earmuffs to be part of my office supplies.
Good noise-blocking earmuffs are better than earplugs. If they are of good quality, they will be more comfortable than all but the best headphones. Be careful, because many of these earmuffs are designed to block loud noises like jet engines, while letting in conversations. You do not want something that lets conversations in, but instead, muffs that block everything.
The best set I have found (other than very expensive examples) are the Bilsom Viking V3 earmuffs. See http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/bilsom-viking-v3-1.html as one example.
When I am wearing my earmuffs, I can barely hear my phone ring. If someone walks up behind me and talks to me, I do not know they are there.
-Todd
P.s. One more important consideration is one way to block noise is to block air movement. Some inexpensive earmuffs do this, but it causes pressure issues in your ears, similar to pushing your hands against your ears (painful!).
You can tell whether a set of earmuffs is good by putting them on and then pressing the muffs tighter into your head. If the pressure goes up like you are in an airplane, these are cheap. The Vikings will NOT do this.
Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
Pantera. Every day.
I'm looking for the candidate with 10 years of experience in anything computer science with strong java skills, not exactly niche.
We work 40 hour weeks for good (note, not outstanding) pay. If you fit the bill and are looking for work, please do get in touch with me (slashdot will do fine), as i'd love to use our internal referral bonus to bump up my good pay a notch.
We use professional tech recruiters for resume screening. We screen about 1/2 the resumes we get. The next 80% fail the trivial programming test. About half the remainder show other serious deficits (e.g. not someone our team is willing to work with due to personality issues). But what bugs me is the 80% failing the truly trivial programming test. That just eats time ... there are sooooo many bad candidates out there right now.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Music can be a great tool for self regulation. Classical piano can be calming and help your concentration. If you are on a roll and just need steam to keep going listen to Jazz or Jungle. I find anything with lyrics too distracting - at least if they're in English. Sounds like an oppressive work environment though - I doubt the management is any good if they've got shit like that coming out there mouths
I suggest you all stop listening for 1 day and start typing with 1 finger. Then see how far that gets your CUNT boss.
I still remember once when I was programming while listening classical music. I started to type at the same rhythmic of it. As it was a quick one, my production was increased :-)
I think it can change the production level for better or worse depending on the music.
Prohibiting music is like any other kind of prohibition: It may (or not) work but with the expensive of a decrease of pleasure in working. Generally this would lead to a reduction in the production levels. For me, productively, it does not make sense to prohibit it..
As soon as it does not bother the others, music causes less harm than prohibiting it.
Yes, your boss is undereducated. And you are too. (Music significantly affects work patterns - do your homework before whining)
Actions:
1. Buy yourself some proper industrial hearing protection earmuffs. No "music at work" issues and more effective than earbuds
2. Buy the boss "Peopleware" for Christmas (http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Teams-Second/dp/0932633439)
You can get 24db earmuffs (make sure you get ones that don't have a "speach hole") and add another 15 or 20 with the common or gardenttype little Yellow Earplugs. (See http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/ear_muffs.htm for examples)
-- Butlerian Jihad NOW!
And it also works for students, Can listening to background music improve children's behaviour and performance in mathematics?
What, me worry?
You may find it interesting to read about cognitive load theory. I think there is a case to be argued that music without lyrics will have little impact on primarily linguistic tasks such as programming.
We had a scenario where one of our team members who "listened to music" all day to help him focus. What he was actually doing was listening to sports radio all day, completely distracted from his work, so he could do better on this sports betting which he also did during work hours.
Based on this a no head-phones policy was put in place and he was let go shortly after.
In my experience, the people in management who implement such unilateral policies don't last too long. Just wait for their next project to fail and they'll be gone. Bad corporate policies, on the other hand, will simply motivate valuable people to leave the company.
Music is good for some, bad for others. Working from home is great for some, horrible for others. Some people's most productive day includes an hour of flash-games. If you just let Employees do what they want and only focus on their output and cooperative abilities, then how they get the work done doesn't matter.
Only in a place where labour laws allow employees to be fired with out cause would a manager even consider such a unnecessary, micro-managing policy with no basis in reality. Really, you USA'ians should vote in someone willing to make your labour laws at least a little balanced; for example you can only be fired for cause after a probation period. I've worked all my life in Canada, but our company was bought by a big USA firm, and the American managers that took over really do think of all employees, no matter how skilled, as easily replaced cogs who could not possibly have anything intelligent to add to any policy. I exaggerate. but the American managers really do have a different attitude towards employees. They are generally shocked when we want to discuss new policies, or have input on policies and working conditions. They seem to expect all employees to be complacent sheep.
This no music policy isn't worth being fired over, but it if the boss refuses to give it up, it is perfectly reasonable to talk to his boss, or HR. If this boss is so worried about 'noise', he should be willing to provide quiet working conditions, no sharing with noisy sales people, or ear plugs.
Anarchists never rule
There are studies that show people work better with baroque music - - google it and Im sure u can find them... as for me personally - there are times I need music - especially when Im doing hack work - or paperwork - admin, planning etc, If i need to solve a really difficult problem - I turn on the noise reduction but dont play music. and sometimes I engage in the chatter that goes on. But as a professional I choose what is appropriate for my work at the time.
I would look for another job NOW !
In case you hadn't picked up on it, "Workers of the world, unite!" is a direct quote from the Communist Manifesto. The folks I was referring to were most definitely Communists: The Republican side of the Spanish Civil War, the Red side of the Russian Revolution being the two most prominent examples.
I am officially gone from
Here's the interesting thing about that: the fascists in Europe were mostly defeated militarily, whereas the fascists in the US were not. And yes, there were fascists in America in the 1930's, although nowhere near as many or as organized as in Europe. (There's some evidence that there was even a far-fetched plot to overthrow Roosevelt.)
I'm not saying any of those ideas are right or wrong, just that they happened, in large part because workers were unemployed, frustrated, working too hard if they had jobs, and being generally oppressed by their bosses.
I am officially gone from
I work at a company that literally cannot hire software developers fast enough. You're right, we are an expense -- a great expense to find, train, and invest institutional knowledge in.
If you work in a programming job where you are instantly replaceable, then sure -- you are a cog in a machine that is easily replaceable. In my 3 software engineering jobs (where I've left to greener pastures) I've never experienced this. Every time I've moved on I've put a lot of work into replacing myself, and it's difficult (and I'm not hot shit).
So I'd correct your assertion: "That's the nature of companies with no level of standards in our day and age."
This reminds me of when I was young. I used to listen to classical music in high school while doing homework. My dad would always tell me to "turn off that music" because I couldn't possibly be concentrating with it on. I would explain that it helped, but he would never believe me. It really wouldn't matter what I told him, he had his mind made up; he could not concentrate with music on, so no one could concentrate with music on.
The reasoning the boss has... "he thinks it distracts us from our jobs and causes us to make mistakes". It seems likely that he sees something he doesn't agree with (headphones in the workplace... unprofessional), makes an assumption (this must be a source of distraction), and then makes up an arbitrary justification for changing it (it causes errors). It would make sense if he had followed it from the bottom up; the company is experiencing too many programmer errors, which can be traced back to distractions, which can be shown to be caused by too much personal music. Then there's a justification.
But that's a far cry from looking over a see of headphones and deciding in your head, "I think this is wrong. I'm going to 'fix' it by changing something." It's not clear what the boss' exact reasoning is, but it looks like a poor and shortsighted decision that can only harm things.
Personally, I know sometimes I need music to keep me going. Classical for when I'm cruising along, some high-energy for when I'm really plugging along and getting a ton done, and then complete silence when I have to figure out something complex. Then once I get through that complex segment, it's back on the music. Going without music would be like having an uncomfortable chair for the day, or going w/o my favorite mechanical keyboard, or not having enough light. Not a show stopper, but just a bit more miserable and less productive.
Thinking back on it, whenever I'm working with programmers, it's just about universal that they'll all have their own headphones and use them to tune each other out (concentrate) while working. The headphones come off to discuss programming problems, games, lunch (take out)... then back on to get back to work. I haven't seen another office position where headphones are so ubiquitous.
and my programs are shit! Clearly music is the way to go.
First things first. I am trying to be polite but know I will fail at it since I am a tell it like it is kind of guy.
I realize that different people work well in different situations ( ie. Some like it quiet and some do not). However having been a programmer for over 25 years the biggest question on my mind is does your boss sniff glue? And if not does he really just hate the programmers being productive? Before you go all holier than thou on me I know and understand that there are some people that can not handle it. But the majority of us out perform and solve more complex problems than our counterparts that try without music. I know some of you are going to balk at that one but I have proven it for over 25 years. What I really wanted to ask, but figure it would be censored, was is your boss a crack head? Because if he/she is then it totaly explains it.
Personally, I could not work without music.
But, it HAS to be music I know. music from a radio would be worse than useless. Music intermixed with speech (djs) is worse than distracting.
The best is music I know well.
Also, I am a terrible clock watcher, if I say to myself, 'right, I will work for 3 hours and then take a break' I find myself looking at the clock, which itself breaks concentration.
To resolve this, I use music to time my work. I put in a music queue of 3-4 hours, and I know that when there is no more music, I should break off.
Another good trick to use with this, is to make the selection of music mostly the same, apart from the last album. So, when I notice the music change, I know even subconciously
it is coming up for time for a break.
Using this method, I often find myself zoned out until I realise that I am typing in silence, the music having stopped 10-20 minutes before.
So, for me, music is a productivity aid. I guess for many others it is the same. But, I will stress, its personal, some people need silence, some need music.
But, I have never known any coder to be at his best while working in a mixed and noisy environment.
Human beings are creatures of habbit. We get into a rhythm, when do we wake up, eat breakfast, leave for work, take bathroom breaks, etc. There have been studies that show that people who get distracted at work can lose minutes of productive time answering the distraction before they can get back into that sweet spot of productivity. Music, I believe, provides a bit of rhythm to the day. It can help get your mind focused in the correct direction, and get back to work more efficiently then if you had no music at all.
Now, I have had some experience with this, and I often have headphones on and music playing (virtualized to play on itunes no less because I don't want to take up bandwidth space on an internet radio station.) And I'd say about 80% of the time music helps the day go, and helps me be much more productive. It is easier to get into a groove and then just keep going and working. I am amazed out how productive I am when I am listening to music.
However there are also a few times when the music is as much of a distraction to work as well. Often times when I realize that, I am smart enough to turn off the player, and set the headphones down and refocus the old fashioned way. To me this issue comes down to trust. If they don't trust you to use everything at your disposal to keep yourself focused and on task, then why do you have a job in the first place?
To me if I was a manager, I would want to be able to trust my employess. If I am having to meddle in how they go about doing their job like this, it speaks to a trust issue that under the surface is disrupting the teams ability to work together. Having just read a ton of books on leadership by Maxwell and Scully, I believe that its important to sit down with your manager and air these issues out before they become a major impediment to team success.
I listen to house music while programming.. gets the sausages surfing over the keyboard
LOL
That troll is too fucking stupid to pick up on shit that any high school kid would know. Even worse concerning his basic lack of understanding is that he claims he is a "Proud Liberal", HA!
I believe that musing is distracting; some studies have shown that performance/productivity are affected by listening to music, just as other forms of multitasking. However, so is office chatter, phone or paging system calls, email alerts, chat alerts, requests from other colleagues, and other interruptions. A symptom to watch for is programmers saying that they prefer to come in early or staying in late in order to be more productive - you must then consider making alterations to the office/work environment. But this is to be done by working *with* the team and look for ideas/improvement options that are accessible to the business.
But the manager is wasting his time when he focuses on music listening habits - music might be better (for one) than ambient noises.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRepnhXq33s - Watch this and/or make your boss watch it.
I know everyone has different tastes in music, but there is music I play when I program (Previous slashdot topic IIRC) and music I play when I'm actually listening to the music. Music can move, motivate, set the mood etc. Maybe your boss need to experience what it's like to have music help your concentration.
Before it gets worse.
I've written embedded software in past jobs, and now I write a lot of specifications, design circuits, poor over device data sheets, and layout PCBs. All of those activities require a fair amount of concentration.
What works best for me is a quiet room/office (music optional, but I rarely play it, and then it's instrumental jazz). I fought for a private office for 3 years in my present job and finally moved into the small EE lab and use half of it for my office. I have a door to close, that is wonderful. The rest of the product development group (MEs and Industrial designers) are in an open room where there is no privacy (where I was for 3 years). Before I moved to the small EE lab, whenever I had to get some focussed work done I worked at my office at home.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
The manager's request is unreasonable.
Ask him to demonstrate that it distracts.
If he is uncooperative then everyone calls in sick for a week.
Alternate strategies:
Grab a conference room large enough to seat all the programmers and have a head hunter from come in to talk about the best way to transition. Make sure your boss knows about the purpose of the 'development meeting' after the meeting has started.
When I worked at YottaYotta one of the developers set up a spare box as music server. Bosses didn't care. They were mostly willing to do anything to keep the developers happy.
While I was there my supervisor said, "XXX (the company CEO) thinks we should all be working on the same computers. What would the developers do if we said they couldn't run linux desktops, but used winsooze instead?
I told him that it was easy:
* Half of them would quit.
* The company would have to pay several thousand dollars per seat to license development software equivalent to what they were using under linux for no fee.
* Development would essentially come to a halt for weeks to months while people learned new tools
Fortunately with this, my supervisor accepted the advice, passed it up the chain, and we heard no more about this.
Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
I read the following fact somewhere I don't remember: Music with lyrics (words) will lessen short-time memory, so I recommend to use musics with soft rhythms and instrumental of course...
The average cost to bring a new coder up to speed measures in the 10s of thousands of dollars.
Your typical PHB doesn't even understand that. He'll probably think it means you hired someone who can't type very fast.
Well, I hope that isn't the case. I remember when I was going through post secondary, when my Professional Development instructor was going over why you don't want to waste the time of someone who's interviewing you, because if you ballpark what they make in an hour, then take into account the amount of time to:
-Listen to initial cold calls/read resume
-Interview you
-Do any other administration work to get you hired
-Introduce you to the working environment
That can be multiple hours, which indeed can be multiple thousands of dollars.
Find a new job. No one wants to work for this guy.
My office is generally quiet, which is why when someone starts humming or crunching on pretzels, I feel like my scalp is going to jump off my head and run away. I listen to white noise like this in continuous repeat to drown it out. Works great for knuckleheads on the subway too!
I agree with JavaGuy - find another job, and let your boss know why you're leaving. If s/he/they don't change their policy, follow through with it.
Your options basically are:
1. Challenge your boss (i.e ask him to provide evidence of how listening to music causes mistakes in coding)
2. Go along with it
3. Get another job
4. Get some noise-canceling headphones (e.g Bose QuietComfort 2)
What you do really depends on how much you like your job, your boss etc... and how long you want to be there.
For me the optimum is no-noise (i.e being in an office on my own). However, I only managers get them at my work (which means I don't get one). Occasionally when reading a document or doing some mundane tasks I listen to instrumental music (e.g classical, relaxation).
The Republican side in the Spanish Civil war were first democrats, and after that a rag tag union of leftist forces, not all of them Communists.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... that you haven't got a reference ....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
How do you know the test subjects were programmers?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Something that is clearly been overlooked here is that of personal taste and comfort. Much of the code I (we?) write is basic code that we've done a million times in a million different arrangements. For some of us music helps us get into a flow, and for those of us who have been doing it for a long time, it almost becomes instinctual. It's much like driving to a place you've gone a ton of times, your mind way wander you don't think about the specific turns but you get to the destination just fine. When it comes to a more complicated coding task, I always feel the need to pause my music to think it out. My boss said to me once "I don't understand how you concentrate and listen to music at the same time". I told him it has always helped me, even studying in school. In my case my boss is also a coder for many years. In the end it's a matter of personal taste, some of us focus better with background noise, where some of us need silence. Some of us like falling asleep w/ the tv on, some of us can't. Music's effect on code quality is given WAY too much credit. Rick
Making something out of nothing : MD5 ("") = d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
I vary my music according to the level of intensity of thought necessary:
Fast, heavy music with lots of vocals ----- Mundane work, e.g. homework, "mindless" coding, manual labor
Light instrumental music, no vocals ----- Any work involving light to medium problem solving
Silence ----- Difficult problem solving
By far the greatest advantage to listening to music while I work is that it keeps me _awake_ - it can't be beat when on a crazy all-night death march.
I'm a highly-compensated engineer, and yet the PHB powers-that-be can't figure out that my work is starting to suffer from the inane chatter that comes from the the cube next to me. Non-stop, almost all day, from an hourly "secretary" that apparently is always "busy". Needless to say, I'm seeking other employment, where ability to focus on my job is taken seriously.
Since your boss suggests you need to concentrate more, I suggest you tell him that you'll be able to concentrate better if you had an office.
E3M3
'nuff said.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I have the same office chatter problem, but I'm not a fan of music either. I actually listen to brownian noise (like whitenoise, but less harsh) in my noise-cancelling headphones just loud enough to wash out the chatter. It's easy to google up a 1-minute seamless loop. I additionally got a old-schoo keyboard that clicks very loudly when I type (buckling springs)--mostly because I like the old-school feeling of typing, but also when the chatter gets to loud, you start typing away so as to say--I'm the one working here. I don't know what you're all doing chattering away. I also like the advice about going to your boss with a number of programmers to bring up the issue of the office chatter, and NOT wanting to listen to music (I don't). Also google up the articles that Joel Spolsky wrote on the topic of programmer productivity and office space.
Every person is totally different. Music is distracting to some and conductive to concentration for others. Your performance at work is your own responsibility and a blanket banning is not the correct answer. Let it go for a while and I think what he'll likely see is that some people may benefit while others decline. Just make sure you point out that no productivity gain has been made after a while. I, for one, am one of those people that absolutely cannot ignore conversations around me. It isn't that I want to pay attention its that I can't make myself ignore them. Music helps me tune this all out. Like any other profession, developers are not morlocks to be chained in a cave to pound out code somewhere. We are individuals with different personalities and we operate differently. Like others some of us may not fair well in a cubicle environment. We need occasional distraction and something to keep our minds busy. Music can help soak up the residual when your working on boilerplate code or something you've done before that doesn't require your entire concentration. Then it becomes background when you need everything you've got. Heck I find myself turning it off occasionally because I get so into a problem that the music becomes a distraction. If you're leaving the music on even if it distracts you one of two things is going on. Either you are allowing a minimal distraction (music) so you don't get the larger distraction (office noise) or you are in the wrong profession and you'd rather hear the music than do the development. The latter can also happen if you work on a project you don't like. This is the reason Google does the project setup it does so people work on things they like and stay motivated.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html
8. Do programmers have quiet working conditions?
There are extensively documented productivity gains provided by giving knowledge workers space, quiet, and privacy. The classic software management book Peopleware documents these productivity benefits extensively.
Here's the trouble. We all know that knowledge workers work best by getting into "flow", also known as being "in the zone", where they are fully concentrated on their work and fully tuned out of their environment. They lose track of time and produce great stuff through absolute concentration. This is when they get all of their productive work done. Writers, programmers, scientists, and even basketball players will tell you about being in the zone.
The trouble is, getting into "the zone" is not easy. When you try to measure it, it looks like it takes an average of 15 minutes to start working at maximum productivity. Sometimes, if you're tired or have already done a lot of creative work that day, you just can't get into the zone and you spend the rest of your work day fiddling around, reading the web, playing Tetris.
The other trouble is that it's so easy to get knocked out of the zone. Noise, phone calls, going out for lunch, having to drive 5 minutes to Starbucks for coffee, and interruptions by coworkers -- especially interruptions by coworkers -- all knock you out of the zone. If a coworker asks you a question, causing a 1 minute interruption, but this knocks you out of the zone badly enough that it takes you half an hour to get productive again, your overall productivity is in serious trouble. If you're in a noisy bullpen environment like the type that caffeinated dotcoms love to create, with marketing guys screaming on the phone next to programmers, your productivity will plunge as knowledge workers get interrupted time after time and never get into the zone.
With programmers, it's especially hard. Productivity depends on being able to juggle a lot of little details in short term memory all at once. Any kind of interruption can cause these details to come crashing down. When you resume work, you can't remember any of the details (like local variable names you were using, or where you were up to in implementing that search algorithm) and you have to keep looking these things up, which slows you down a lot until you get back up to speed.
Here's the simple algebra. Let's say (as the evidence seems to suggest) that if we interrupt a programmer, even for a minute, we're really blowing away 15 minutes of productivity. For this example, lets put two programmers, Jeff and Mutt, in open cubicles next to each other in a standard Dilbert veal-fattening farm. Mutt can't remember the name of the Unicode version of the strcpy function. He could look it up, which takes 30 seconds, or he could ask Jeff, which takes 15 seconds. Since he's sitting right next to Jeff, he asks Jeff. Jeff gets distracted and loses 15 minutes of productivity (to save Mutt 15 seconds).
Now let's move them into separate offices with walls and doors. Now when Mutt can't remember the name of that function, he could look it up, which still takes 30 seconds, or he could ask Jeff, which now takes 45 seconds and involves standing up (not an easy task given the average physical fitness of programmers!). So he looks it up. So now Mutt loses 30 seconds of productivity, but we save 15 minutes for Jeff. Ahhh!
For me, can't be done. Not only am I a System Administrator at a software company, but a musician... I can't make it more than a few hours of mind-numbing silence or obnoxious office banter without the injection of a siren song or two.
Why are you telling this to the people who already know?
I have formidable powers of concentration. They are completely overcome by nearby conversation on a subject that interests me. If the environment includes people talking, I need something to mask the conversation.
Best, of course, would be that people take their talking to a conference or break room.
People who don't write programs typically have little comprehension of the "flow" state in which really productive people zoom along at super-productivity oblivious to their surroundings. A phone ringing, a conversation, a sudden loud noise pops a person out of flow to a pedestrian level.
Every intellectual worker needs some kind of isolation that promotes flow. The cheapest I can think of is some kind of auditory mask.
Regards,
Bill Drissel
Not necessarily true. There are risks associated with new employees, as well as costs for training. Plus, it could mean that deadlines are missed. So basically, by giving your boss an ultimatum, you are forcing your boss to consider whether or not it is worth the costs and risks to get rid of the "squeak." A new cog could be even squeakier than the last.
With that said, pick your freaking battles for goodness sake. It's good to have a job in these times; consider your options carefully before giving it up. Plus, you don't want to jeopardize the relationship between you and your boss by giving an ultimatum. Look for better solutions; that should come naturally to good programmers anyways.
I'm one of those people who needs to needs to have a certain amount of peace and quiet when dealing with words or programming logic. If I can't get that because I'm in Dilbert-ville, I'll use non-verbal background noise in the form of classical or New Age music.
The "flow" can also apply to creative writing.
I tend to find the early hours of the morning to be the best time for creativity and writing. Everybody else in the house is asleep and I don't have to worry about lawn mowers, blaring radios, boom-box cars, or other distractions. I'm also fresh after a night's sleep.
Reply with a resignation letter signed by all of the programmers. He'll let you use your music players.
www.blueapples.org
In the test department I was able to test 8 hours worth of units in 4 hours while listening to Hendrix. In engineering, programming speed was not increased significantly, but I was able to concentrate better. In this completely unscientific comparison I'd say music increases productivity more with mechanical activities.
We share our open plan office with the support guys so they are always yakking on the phone or talking to people. They also have the worst possible RnB radio station going all day. I listen to music simply so I can control the audio space around me. Sometimes I don't even have music playing but listen to white noise from www.simplynoise.com .
I highly recommend listening to WFMT classical radio station (streaming, or in Chicago 98.7) while coding.
WFMT is the only station in the country that has announcer-read ads (i.e no jingles or pre-recorded commercials. Thus their commercials are non-intrusive.). Their announcers are excellent. The programming is accessible but a good mix. It's really great around Christmas.
Classical music for me helps me concentrate and, unlike my rock/rap doesn't distract me from intense concentration. (As a rule, I put on rock only when I'm doing work that doesn't require much concentration).
Don't like classical? It's actually good stuff if you develop a taste for it.
Whilst I'm no programmer, I do a fair amount of web design and html coding. And when I am in work mode, I need my specific music to get in the mood. If you're not in the mood and comfortable with the sounds around you, your work will not be up to scratch. And for anyone or any boss who suggests that a programmer/coder has to work without music/headphones is an idiot and it clearly demonstrates their lack of integrity in this field.
Refuse to work for overly controlling counterproductive micro meddling dumbasses.
imagine marking a 3hr exam for hundreds of students. to get better consistency you should mark question by question and the overhead in just handling that much paper and accurately recording the individual scores, and then adding and recording them, takes a surprising amount of time. I know my supervisor listens to music while doing this, and its been suggested that i bring headphones to listen to music while doing this or during research or programming. if its acceptable at a university during marking mathematics and is not considered to decrease accuracy then I dont agree with your companies policy.
Personally speaking, I hardly ever listen to music at all, and listening to music / anything while programming distracts me. Period. Maybe it's because I live far away from noisy city life and am not used to hearing 'noise'.
That said, at my work there are no cubicles (everything is open, it's like a huge mess hall). You can look around and see who's still at work Friday at 6:45pm and who isn't. Even so, it is always to some degree distracting when anyone (esp a woman) walks by / says / yells something, but I'm slowly getting used to it....
This very much mirrors my past experience. After being laid off twice, I've had two interviews and two new jobs both times. I was very careful of where I was interviewing, and only went to interviews at places I wanted to work.
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
You'd be surprised how many people we interviewed who could work with the most simple of pieces of tech. No idea how to form an SQL query, no idea how to use something like yahoo's web gui libs, no idea what the difference was between passing by reference and passing by value and on and on.
We weren't looking for someone with 20 years experience, hell a high school kid with a knack for simple procedural code would do, and we had a hard time finding that.
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
s/could/couldn't/
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
If your boss doesn't know that employees aren't cookie cutter replacements, then you made a mistake in accepting a position under him. My boss damned well does know this, and so does his boss. Same was true for the last company I worked for. Before that I worked at a company that had a lot of higher level execs who thought like that but we luckily had a lot of good middle managers who kept us from having to interact with the idiot CIO and his team of clowns.
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.