Slashdot Mirror
Jedi Knight Now (Not) Officially a Religion
osiris writes: "The Register is reporting that being a Jedi Knight is now an official religion in the UK after the 2001 census conducted earlier this year. The final number of 'Jedi Knights' has not been confirmed yet as only about 95% of the census forms have been returned. As you could probably imagine, the Home Office is none too pleased. Apparently though, you can't get fined for lying about your religion in the census." Actually, according to the story, this gives the Jedi way no more official status than Plumbing would have if everyone put that down.
So when are the lightsabers coming out?
None of the people who check it are actually Jedi, whether they say they are or not :(. I don't remember the last time I saw anyone build a real working lightsaber....
What, me worry?
http://www.snopes.com/religion/jedi.htm
contains the complete info on this BORING (IMHO) urban legend.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
what about sith? they are way more hardcore!
Ok - so someone's really decided there needs to be separate categories for "Atheist" and "None". I want to see the discussion here the delineates the differences between someone who says there's no God (which seems to me to be saying that religion would necessarily be a fabrication), and "None" ... which means. I dunno -- pretty much the same thing? That there is a god and they choose not to believe -- it seems that you start to get into one of those Douglas Adams'-ish loops about proof denying faith, and without faith god being nothing -- with of course proof, proving god doesn't exist because god exists.
Okay, I'm following the idea of why a census would be useful for analyzing racial inequality, sexism, poverty, etc. But how does religion fit into this? I don't know a lot about laws in Britain (yes, I'm an uncultured, closed-minded American), but what exactly is the purpose of the Census in Britain? I can't think of a good reason, unless they used it to determine how the religious make-up is changing from year to year.
Maybe this is why everyone puts down "Jedi Knight" - no one cares.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Big deal. Being a Michael Knight made you a god in Germany 15 years ago.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
Where I drive, more people seem tuned in to the dark side, which side do you think has the most followers?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Does this "religion" at all involve paying for the same "holy text" over and over again, in varying "special release" formats?
;o)
Darth Vader, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
2000 years ago a group of people believed in a man called Jesus Christ. And now an enormous amount of our society is based around his sacrifice.
2000 years from now, perhaps the world will pray to a man named Luke Skywalker???
No doubt my mail account will soon be bombarded with mail order offers for ginuwine titles like "Grand Vizier of the Brotherhood of Jedi" or something. Great.
Po
Is our bible written as such: "Saul begot Jim... yes... mmmm-hmm.... Help him he could... yes..."
From the article: The spokeswoman that clarified the situation for us was one Ms Knight (no relation but some irony).
The article has been updated to acknowledge that Jedi Knight is not officially recognised as a relgion but also states that no religions are officially recognised. If that's the case, then isn't it "as good" as recognised as an official religion?!? (it's in the same boat as all of the "real" religions)
Donation allocation, maybe?
ThIs LiNe Is HeRe To ByPaSs FiLtEr
Jedi's are wimps, the real power is in the dark side...
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
Thinking along the lines of the Rastafarians who (in some places) have gained the ability to smoke pot legally as a 'religious sacrament'....
/dev/random, and concealed in the Mysteries of the Digits of PI.
How about forming a new religion, dedicated to interpreting the holy scripture as given by the Great Kernel to humankind through
Amongst the religious edicts would be:
1) Any and all binary data may contain manifestations of the Lord Kernel. Therefore, followers are instructed to decode any and all binary data they get their hands on, and apply technical skills to defeat all encryption inherent in such data/code (including copy-protection barriers).
2) All followers must celebrate the Lord Kernel's holy abundance by freely sharing any data and code which they feel personally moved to make available.
3) The Lord Kernel's abundance takes precedence over any human notions of intellectual property
4) Members of the Church of the Great Kernel may transform their data in any way before transmission to other Members.
This way, the DMCA, SSSCA, ATA etc can be ruled unconstitutional as they interfere with religious practice.
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
I guess after the very sexy 70's those in the UK needed a reason to stop getting laid...
What this means is that in the UK, should they amass enough Jedi Knights, that they will possibly have to make special considerations for facilities and transportation. Very serious stuff indeed.
*SMIRK*
In space, no one can hear you moo.
Earlier this year there was a census in Australia also and I've received a lot of (spam) regarding that I should write down Jedi there too. Does anybody know if the outcome of the census in Australia is known already?
bash$
I bet after a few years of linux being declared an official religion, RMS will form the bGNULinux protestant movement agaisn't the mainstream linux church.
You know Linus would cool with those pope hats. Especially at trade shows.
http://saveie6.com/
"As such, Jedi Knight is not officially recognised as a religion."
For whatever reason, the article starts off with the complete opposite statement. The point is that a lot of people are putting down Jedi for their religion because they want to mess with the British government. I can't believe this got posted on slashdot.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Now I don't want to make statements about people's choice of religion, etc., but I think it would be interesting to see how many of those people who declared themselves Jedi Knight religious followers would have thought twice about their religion if the census were taken after Sept. 11. I for one am Presbyterian, but I don't know why the government needs to know that. However, I think an "N/A" would have been a bit more appropriate. But I'm trying not to judge. My point is, although this is humorous, it's a bit unnerving for people who may take religion a bit more seriously than those in this case and then have those people (again, trying not to judge...) run to religion as a comfort zone after Sept. 11. I'm happy that people find comfort with turning to religion, but am a bit disappointed that it seems to be a "fair-weather" religion. This is my 2 cents. If you're a moderator, please don't mod me down. This is not flamebait, trolling, etc. It's my 2 cents. Cheers.
/pj
The Jedi religion does in fact have many stated ideas that aren't too far from "real" religions, so who is to say that one can not actually proclaim themselves Jedi followers?
The question is a whole lot like asking "Is Discordianism Real?"
Any Discordian will tell you with absolute uncertainty that it probably isn't unreal. But just because the Discordian religion probably appeared first in a fictional novel doesn't mean that the beliefs are not valid, even if a bit loony.
I say if someone wants to be a Jedi, so be it. They have every bit as much a right to create miracles as any Christian, Jew, or Muslim. In fact, they're probably just as good at it!
Hail Eris! fnord
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Years later, I picked up a sword and found a way of life through Musashi.
I can't use the Force to influence the dice in Vegas. But who cares? I have a lot of fun! Visit theforce.net for a good time!
Useless opinions, worthless observations, and more!
eh? I worship toilets... no really.
Interactive Visual Medical Dictionary
reason being i'm not spiritual at all and don't even consider religion as part of my life. The reason I wouldn't choose aetheist is that I feel this is too strong of a statement to make, people expect you to argue for your beliefs (I hate explaining myself to religious people) so I just say I don't have a spiritual side at all and havn't thought of it. After some study of various philosophies/religion i've decided the arguments and religion itself aren't worth it at all. I guess if anything i'm a moralist.
Now someone correct me and put me in my correct category i prolly messed up in there somewhere
Photos.
"Okay, touch your tongue to mine"
"What?"
"Touch your tongue to mine"
"Uhhh, why?"
"To make if official"
"Make what official?"
"You know, ALL of it"
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
So frankly I'm not too surprised that people answer bullshit when they see such questions : many of the people who answered "Jedi Knight" at the religious affiliation question probably felt the government had no business knowing it, and maybe the answer was in fact a way for these people to express their disapproval.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
From the Australian Bureau of Statistics...
Main purpose of the religion question
The religion question is included in the census as religious organisations are the biggest providers of services, outside of government, in a number of areas such as schooling, health services, aged care services, and community support facilities. The question is not designed to measure the degree of participation in particular religions and philosophies.
Rather, as many people access services in accord with their nominal religious affiliation, the statistics are highly useful for planning these services (eg many Catholics who do not actively participate in their religion send their children to Catholic schools). The religion question has been optional in all Australian censuses; this follows from a requirement in the Australian Constitution.
"...but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology..." - FZ
Wouldn't the religion be just "Jedi"?
Does this cover the dark side of the force as well?
Can you be of the Jedi religion without being a knight?
What's the official Jedi position on abortion, contraception and religious killing?
How do you make those lightsabers anyway?
I believe this was already discussed before, and there's something about not being able to form a religion for the purpose of circumventing laws after they have been passed.
--Jubedgy
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis hebes
I wonder how many clever people put down Sith instead, and if the ppl at the home office understood it (or just ticked the seikh box).
A conversation with a European tax collector.
::Tax collector walks to the next house::
::Waves his hand at the tax collector::
"These aren't the taxes you are looking for.."
These aren't the taxes we are looking for..
"You will not tax me at all."
I won't tax you at all..
"Move along."
Moving along..moving along..
Thank god for the Force!
It has a lot of the elements:
Worship
Sacrifice
Love
Hate
Flame
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
You know, were Star Wars a Non-American creation, I'm sure officials would have more of a sense of humor about this. However, it must be an American degradation of the culture...
Not to say this isn't a conspiracy. You see, aliens told George Lucas of the Force, and he melded it into a story. Aliens helped with the special effects, so that the idea of the Force would penetrate society.
And yes, that means Area 51 is where the government is trying to train the first Jedi Knights, but the gov doesn't trust the citizenry with this information because it might be possible to encrypt messages with the Force.
Rumor is one of the Jedis has moved to the Dark Side and they're having some wonderful war games right about now... That's what's keeping the government from unleashing the Jedis on Afghanistan. Hopefully this Dark Side convert will be subdued in time for Iraq...
Now that they have gotten "Jedi Knight" into the official UK govt census report, the next step is to get other amusing responses into the next census report. Since the report is simply "a list of possible answers that people have been known to put in the box marked religion", they will have no choice but to recognize that "CowboyNeal" is the answer to everything!
was ol' Darth Lucus shitting him self as his cash cow (trademarked) Jedi gets "Generic"'ed.
Awwww! Some one hand him a sheet of boxed tissue product.
Does that mean we can buy the Sacred Action Figures tax-free now?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
An explanation of the lucas Light/Dark, compassion/Greed pseudo-religion can be found here
Lucas has been quoted in interviews, most notably the interviews included in the last boxed set before special edition, as being serious about the interpretation of the force as a religion. It's an attractive and very pragmatic alternative to any conventional worship. Lucas's religion has two sides: Light which represents compassion and humanity, and Dark which represents Greed and avarice.
This system fits well with Aetheists like me because it gives the moral comfort of "good vs. evil" ethics without the need to believe in a "higher" being. It makes sense to skeptics that these forces exist, but in the minds and actions of men and not by the whim of a diety.
After Epsiode one this became even more attractive to Darwinists. We learned that the force (in Lucas's world) is caused not by the supernatural, but by a scientifically proven biological symbiosis with this little mitichlorian dudes. Truly a cool and fantastic idea. Now if only the religious right would let us genetically engineer some . . .
Looking at the census list of religions it would seem just about every permutation of praise gets a mention...
So where is Time Cube? It's a perfectly valid religious choice?
I thought four corner truth was ineffable. Could it be that Census is just another Evil Word Institution trying to suppress Gene Ray's beautious vision...
Let's all pull together and make time cube number 900 on the list come the next census
- Many many hours ago,
Sir Vader: "Why aren't those forms completed yet!"in a Home Office
from another continent far far away...
staff watch as census forms
are being counted electronically...
Tally marks which determine
the fate of these people.
low wage staff member #1: "This stack of forms wont feed through this machine here."
Sir Vader: *(in a rumbling voice)* Let me try!" *Vader attempts to feed the forms through the machine, but they fail.* "Hmm, the force is strong with these ones. What does the religion field say?"
low wage staff member #2: "Says 'Jedi Knight', sir."
Sir Vader: "What!!?, the rebels have gotten a stronghold into our Statistics. I knew it should have been multiple choice and not fill in the blank! Find me the Rebel Base!"
low wage staff member #1: "Sir.. ummm... ummm... WTF!?"
"First they tell you you're wrong and they can prove it; then they tell you you're right but it isn't important; then they tell you it's important but they knew it all along."
-Charles Kettering
... the Immaculate Misconception: Believing that Jar-Jar Binks was a good idea. Ever.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
Talk backwards must I?
And the Gobernment was making alot of big noises bout arresting the people, etc. I wonder what happened there?
This is the link for the earlier story in the UK:3 .html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/1820
But they haven't finished discussing what sort of reports to print out from the data. Which is a typical problem.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
On the other hand, it is also an interesting concept in the fact that a Jedi is also completely calm, and in tune with his/her environment. By this definition, it might do some people good to attempt to be calm and in tune; they might be able to think their way more clearly, and act on less rash thoughts. If they define themselves this way, then it might not offend as many people. I believe that some people will still be irked by someone calling themself a Jedi Knight.
Just my $0.02 worth
-mrbkap
No, that would be Scientology.
-----
Free P2P Backup, Windows & Linux
HA bloody ha. May I counter and say the census will rather provide an idea on how many Muslims will need protection from ppl with irational biases like yourself.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
And I find that the most interresting aspect of the whole thing is that it says something about culture, when something totally made up from a 23 year old movie shows up in a national census.
Exactly what it says is up to debate, but the statement is the real message. I doupt that the people who awnsered Jedi when asked aout their religion actually meant that they believe in an invisible force created by life that can be used to do magic.
I wonder how it feels to know you're the one that started all of this in the first place.
You can't take the sky from me...
Midichlorians, thetans; same difference.
No, but luckily for you, Worshipper of the Gaping Ass is included.
So, let's assume that this has been done in the UK... again, I don't know the laws there, so I am most likely talking out my buttocks, but.... This brings up two issues.
1) What is RELIGION? If enough people believe (or at least say they do on a form) is it a religion? It has to be, since all the "major" ones have the same burden of proof... "our book says we are the right one, therefore we are." Honestly, the Hindi, Christian, Asartu, whatever "creation" mythos and scriptures, and "otherworldly" places, people, etc. and so on all have the same logical proof (you can't prove OR disprove any of them) and so how do you define religion as a "belief system"? You can't, as none of them are "provable".
2) Who cares what religion you are? The "official" religion of England was created because one man wanted a divorce, yes? Does filling the form out "wrong" (claiming to be a Jedi) get you free stuff, a tax break, or a chicken in every pot? If not, who the hell cares?
Department of Homeland Security: Removing the rights real patriots fought and died for since 2001
The census will also reveal- for the people that stated their religion, what is the paternal religion?
As well, how many of them are involved in common-law relationships with their sisters?
Urban Detail
An offical religion. Now we can see different churches of Lucas start popping up all over the UK. Imperial Church of Lucas, Rebel Church of Lucas, and a mercenary Church of Lucas etc.
I could see it now...George's body is created out of stone and displayed infront of the large church in shape of the imperial palace. The church bells sing the opening sequence to the movies at each mass. The large wooden church doors have the Lucasarts logo set in stone, inside the church is a large hall filled with flags fitting for the type of Church Lucas, people dressed up as the crimson guard protect the doors and keep order. Each chair holds a Holy book of Lucas praising Star Wars, and answers to Star Wars questions. After each mass a CCG and Star Wars convention breaks out allowing eachother to trade and share Holy Lucas items with one another.
Schedule for Church of Lucas:
Mondays: 12pm-12am Episode I-II-III worship.
Tuesdays: 5pm-10pm Episode IV worship.
Wednesdays:10am-3pm Episode V worship
Thursdays: 2pm-7pm Episode VI worship.
Fridays: 7pm-12am Lucas Worship, Star Wars Paintbattles (re-enacting the battles)
Saturdays: 8am-1pm Lucas Trivia, and book discussion.
Sundays: 6am-8am, 8:15am-10:15am, 10:30am-12:30pm Holy Lord of Lucas (Mace Windu type) delievers mass to it's worshippers.
Each church has several rooms dedicated to:
1.Playing the Star Wars Games (Jedi Knight, X-wing vs. Tie fighter, Rebellion, Star Wars Galaxies, and Galactic Battlegrounds)with state of the art Computer machines along with a T3 bandwith line with multiple redunancies with large internet providers in the UK. To guarntee you the follower isn't interrupted in your practices.
2.Mos Eisley look alike cantina for relaxation.
3.Dueling room to practice those lightsaber skills, and grow your knowledge with the force.
4. Hotel skyrise for followers to remain on the grounds of the Church.
Oh yes..I could see this as a possibility of becoming reality now that the UK Recognizes Jedi Knights as a religion.
Didn't Al Bundy do a similar thing when he started the "church of No, Ma'am"?
All kidding aside, these people don't seriously think they can start a religion based on science fiction, can they? Oh, wait a minute...
You're using her as bait, Master!
Scientology is just one of those trendy religions that people pick up on because their bored and they want to feel like they are a part of something. Real religions are too scary or complicated. After enough time passes, they'll abandon Scientology for something more constructive, like watching paint dry.
We Jedis are the gay blades of outer space. We smoke cock. We fist each other. We let Michael suck us off. We are gay.
What is the "faith" of the religion? It all seems pretty self-evident to me, requiring no faith at all. The force is (in the context of the movies) an entirely real, scientifically provable phenomena, right down to the disappointingly biological midichlorians introduced in Episode One.
I don't recall the question of God ever being brought up in the movies. Is "Jedi" ever referred to in the movies explicitly as a religion?
What would be the consequences of, with regard to the seperation of church and state, of this if you wrote in 'politics' as your religion?
brief.
Today, its quite rational to see muslim in the
street and wonder if he is one of the wacked
out ones where at war with, even if only one
in ten thousand muslim is a extremist, the fear
is still legitiment. Its nothing to be proud of,
but that fear is real, legitiment and rational.
That doesn't make it worthing attacking them, or
hating them, though.
Why not just scrawl in samuri, since kurosawa ( Kurosawa's historical spectacle The Hidden Fortress was credited
by Lucas as an important source for Star Wars) influanced to much of lucas's stuff.
I don't believe george ever said he was building a religion, just some good entertainment.
I am suprised that I haven't seen anything about Joseph Campbell in this discussion (props to those who deserve, comment #2409457 linked to a good article "Star Wars: A Religious Perspective") One of the items listed in the bibliography is the Joseph Campbell video "The Power Of Myth" which I watched on PBS a "long long time ago...". It was VERY good, and also good related reading would be Campbells book, The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
The point being that not only did Campbell influence Star Wars, Lucas discussed the relation of mythology to the Star Wars story with Campbell. Campbell being a mythologist, and mythology being religion (Don't want to get involved regarding present day religion, but nearly all of what we call Mythology today was Religion yesterday) the Star Wars saga has all the makings of a religious story. Lucas intended the saga to be mythological, its one of the wonderful things about the first three movies. I should stop now. Go read about Joseph Campbell, it will be much better than my dissemination of the information.
I just found this link, which is about Star Wars origins (also does some matrix comparison) and it looks interesting.
P.S. I've heard it said that the reason Episode I sucked so much was because Lucas listened to his kids advice on making the movie.
Your
Good, that should keep you busy and away from /. for a while.
Isn't it Rosh Asshanda, Ram-a-dong or something right now? Shouldn't you be fisting, er, fasting or something?
Guess only 2 people wrote sith as their religion?
HA bloody ha. May I counter and say the census will rather provide an idea on how many Muslims will need protection from ppl with irational biases like yourself.
I'm actually more a cynic than irrationally biased. I do definately believe that the government would use the knowledge about where the Mulsims are (which they'd already know even without the census, granted) to help determine deployment of intelligence and police resources.
I personally have no problem with Muslims or any other religion, and in fact I feel sorry for the Muslims who are being unfairly targetted, and are even more victims of terrorism than anyone else, because they're getting it from both sides.
- Strong Atheist: You take a definite position that there is no God, thus maiking a statement of faith.
- Weak Atheist: you acknowledge the possibility that God exist, but believe that the likelihood of this is too low to be taken seriously
- Agnostic - Unlike the Weak Atheist, you believe that the existance or nonexistance of God cannot even be estimated, but that's ok, since it doesn't matter anyway.
Oh the three positions, Weak Atheism is probably the most intellectually honest one. Strong Atheism is hypocritical, and Agnosticism seems more of a cop-out than a philosophical standpoint.>|<*:=
The beginning of the book of Bokonon states, "All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies."
Seemingly a barb at the falsity of religion there is more than a little wisdom in his caution to not write off religion entirely. "Anyone unable to understand how a useful religion can be founded on lies will not understand this book either," writes Bokonon.
So, go my children and practice a religion, so long as it does good. Don't sweat the minor details (like the religion's veracity).
Ofcourse, I'll always hold a special place in my heart for Slak.
-Peter
. Penguins Surely Ca
I've seen the Star Wars movies, and read a great number of the "expanded universe" books. Although there are some inconsistencies in the details as presented by different authors, the best I can make out is that using the Force and being a Jedi Knight is not a religion; it is more like a philosophy or a profession. The Force is simply there to be used--it is not some sort of God to be worshipped. So you could be a Jedi Knight, use the Force, and be a devout .
Of course, I could be entirely wrong.
er, never mind.... let's all be jedi instead of worshiping the Plumbing gods...
M0571y H@rml355.
It demonstrates with great clarity, (provided one is able to pull back from their damned tunnel vision first of all), just how bloody Christ-centric most of the world is. -By this, I mean, everybody wants to put everybody else in one of those three stupid little boxes; Atheist, Agnostic, or None; people, I find, tend to stutter like the brain damaged when you tell them that their little score card is a conceited piece of shit.
For instance:
What if you happen to be Native American Indian? That is, you believe in the spirits of the Earth, Water and Air, believe in magic and spiritualism and such, but have absolutely no use for a foul-tempered bearded man in the sky with a 'good' book.
"Atheist", while etymologically accurate in describing you, is too strong because while it means one doesn't believe in God, in a colloquial sense it firmly suggests that one also has no belief whatsoever in the spiritual realm, which would be a total misrepresentation.
"Agnostic"; The wait and seer's wonder-word, doesn't apply either, because the Native American isn't waiting to see anything; s/he is actively pursuing another religious system altogether, one which doesn't have a God, (graven or otherwise), and thus doesn't give a hoot one way or another about the self-important Christian Million Dollar Question.
And "None" is just, well. . , nice life. Hope Hollywood and Sony Entertainment are able to fill all the gaps in your heart; the things of man get pretty dry after a while. --The new season of Buffy certainly doesn't have the zing it used to. . . (Pardon my Soap Box here, but living a 'None' life appears to take a lot of medication (drugs, alcohol,), and mis-direction, (Hollywood, Games, War, going to work, kayaking like those guys in the cigarette ads, hunting for sex and love, and generally doing all the average-life things to distract yourself from the over-arching back ground noise of gnawing emptiness), and my favorite, over-rationalization, (Shit! Did I just see a unicorn? Why the hell does Asian Astrology work? How can this place be haunted? Why can a 60 year old Chinese guy punch through inch-thick steel plate that I can't even dent with a freaking sledge hammer? Why can I see auras? And Who is this Castaneda guy anyway? -Oh wait. . . That's right. I keep forgetting; It's that pesky swamp gas again! Ho ho!)
Gotta love that swamp gas!
-Fantastic Lad
"After seeing episode 1, is there a god at all?"
-Henry
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
We had a similar thing here in New Zealand in our last census (2001 also). Lots of chain emails, advertisments at universities, and such circulated, asking people to fill in their religion as Jedi Knight.
I know myself that I filled in my religion in as Jedi Knight. It will be interesting to see if the same thing happens here in NZ as in the UK when the census results are counted, or if the government ends up censoring the census!
You can not create a religion that violates the law without a lot of precedent. For example, a group of Indians, I dont recall the tribe, but they are the only group who may use peyote legally. Why? It's their religion, and they've been doing it for hundreds of years. If you had been doing this for many years before the DMCA, and all these laws, you might stand a chance. Otherwise, better just spend your time writing your local representatives.
Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste.
James Brents
Calvin: Why do you suppose we're here?
Hobbes: Because we walked here.
Calvin: No, no, I mean here on Earth.
Hobbes: Because Earth can support life.
Calvin: No, I mean why are we anywhere? Why do we exist?
Hobbes: Because we were born.
Calvin (angry): Forget it.
Hobbes (angry): I will, thank you.
Luke Skywalker as Christ...
The implications are staggering...
"This is a Hollywood movie: when it comes to the Laws of Physics, they're lucky if they get Gravity!" --- my wife
Excellent post.
These are after all semantics. But one have to rely on them once in a while : especially when describing oneself to somebody who is impatient and only understand two possibilities "Are you or are you Not?"
I generally call myself an agnostic (which usually means I have to end up defining to most people what that means).
But the Truth is more than just that Million Dollar Question. And a lot more interesting.
If you are a patient one, then I am :
(a) unable to decide on the existence of Judeo-Christeo-type God due to lack of evidence
(b) unable to decide on viability of Buddhism as a world-view until the buddhists agree among themselves what it constitute to be one
(c) think New Age Religion is crap
(d) hunt for sex and love (mostly the former)
(e) think Buffy is hot, but the show is blah
(f) agree that Unicorn horns are good items to have, but don't kill the white ones
(g) think Bruce Lee rocks, Jackie Chan rolls
(h) agree that Native Americans have a intresting world view : especially their funny dilineation of what it means to be "nearest kin" but mostly think that their Element worship is misguided superstition
(i) which also means that I think superstition, magicks, seances, spiritualism, etc is all baloney (unless shown repeatable/testable proof of course)
(j) loves swamp gas too
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
The way the form was produced, the question is completely useless for statistical purposes anyway. The point of the census is that it is compulsary; making a question optional makes the data invalid because it is impossible to estimate the religion of those that did not answer. Assuming the proportions are the same as those that did doesn't work.
As a result, nobody is actually going to use the results of this question for any planning (at least, it would be statistically flawed if they did), and it hardly seems worth putting it in in the first place.
Hey! Mark Hamill is GOD!
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
Hey, if Jedi Knights were recognized, they might have to recognize scientology. Quick, hide your credit cards!
(posting anonymously so as to avoid being harassed and sued, and why does a "religion" copyright their "religious" material and have a whole phalanx of lawyers?)
If Hubbard can make up some crap and get people to follow it, I believe people will follow damn near any bunch of hogwash you offer them. And his stuff was REALLY off the wall.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Oh well, I put Jedi Knight down on my census form.. I don't care, i'm still a Jedi ;)
And if anyone wants to show the world that they're a Jedi, i've setup a little online store with official jedi merchandise!
http://www.cafepress.com/jedi
:)
Be proud. Use the force.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
I put down "Jedi", as my middle name, my religion and Tatooine as one of my family's place of origin in the recent Australian census. If they haul me to court I'll wave my hand at the judge and state: "there is nothing of interest to you here". If I have faith it'll work!
The might of the Federal government is no match for a true Jedi.
* * Always question "the National Interest" - 9 times out of 10 it is a cover for evil
Thought you were talking about Windows... boy I've been reading /. too long
can you say "Star Wars DVD"?
Jedi, plumming and building your belifs on the firm idea that there will always be cheese in the fridge is still more sane and mentally healthy than any of the major religions around today...
Well, every other major organized religion rakes their cull over the coals for cash..
A single energy field what binds everything in the universe together. Hmm some people call it the will of god, others call it atomic forces, others again call it forces of nature. Still it makes more sense that most of the other dogma out there.
'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
unless some major Churches are subsidized by the state, but I don't know if that's the case in the UK
Given that the monarch of England is also the head of the Anglican Church, aka the Church of England, it's a fairly good bet that some major churches in the UK enjoy very strong government ties, to put it mildly.
When a Jedi comes knocking door at my at 11AM to give me a pamphlet and ask me if I've ever used the force, I think I'm going to take them a lot more seriously. That lightsaber really stings!
Oh really, that's just rich. I must have "gaps in [my] heart" because the question of religion doesn't interest me. Replace the word 'religion' with the word 'golf' and you'll get some idea of just how ludicrous this statement is.
Or not. Given your stance I somehow doubt you could see my point of view.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
... for Unix to become an official religion.
You violated your own consistency of usage to get the result you wanted!
If gnostic is to knowledge (of god) as agnostic is to no knowledge (of god), then theist is to belief (in god) as atheist is to no belief (in god).
"No belief" is NOT the same thing as "belief IN no god." If a theist is someone that "has a belief," then the strict negation of that someone that "does NOT have a belief": NOT someone who "has a belief in the incorrectness of the theist belief."
The word "atheist" uses it's "a" in the same way as "amoral" and "asymetrical": i.e. meaning "without."
Furthermore, a theist can deny the very existence of their own god: Paul Tillich did exactly this. Many theists deny the existence of other gods. Many people do not beleive in gods that they have never even heard of: like Pales.
So there is nothing about denying the existence of god that is unique to atheism alone.
If Jedi is an official religion, why don't we make the Prime Directive an official religion? Then the Census can answer the age-old question of whether there are more Trekkies or Star Wars freaks!
Koitsu
Sounds like an old Saturday Night Live skit ... I can see John Belushi now ...
Noone's going to get prosecuted, the census form makes it clear that the religion question is exempt from the requirement to be truthful.
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
i started a web site all about this and how it could work and all about the force Lifecycle
Luke, I am your Father who art in Dagobah,
Obi-Wan be thy name,
thy Rebel Alliance come,
thy Force be done,
on Endor, as it is on Hoth,
give us this Pod Race,
our Jedi Temple,
and forgive us for forgetting about the Sith,
as we forgive those,
who let the batteries die in their lightsabers
and lead us not into the Empire,
but deliver us from Darth Vader.
Amen... hmmm... Strong is the force in this one... yes...
;-P
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I'm a Bokonovist. I might be the only one, since Bokonovism is a religion entirely made up by Kurt Vonnegut (Cat's Cradle).
But it is a great religion. Maybe I'll no longer need to lie about my true belief.
I'm religiously agnostic so the chance to have some fun with the goverment was not to be missed and living in the UK, myself, my sister and my dad are all Jedi!
And yes, I used the force yesterday to will myself out of bed and out to another mind numbing day in the office. So HA!
:P
Ryszard
- 'sup, G?
No, an Agnostic is someone who takes the position that the existence of god(s) is irrelevent. I'm a millitant agnostic evangelist myself (although I put down Jedi Knight on the census to make a point- that asking a non-provable question on a census is a waste of time).
Think about it. All the useful bits of religion are actually morality and philosophy- "stealing is bad, being nice is good". All the useless bits are the theology and myths- "god is a bull with wings, god created Earth out of nothing" etc.
Agnostics know that you can keep the morals and the philosophy whilst ditching all the fluff about magical beings and supernatural forces.
For instance, I think that stealing (as in beer) is wrong because it is detrimental to individuals and to society as a whole. I don't need fear or love of a magical being to re-inforce that understanding.
Suppose the existence or non-existence of god(s) were finally, definitively proven.
If a god was known to exist, would that mean you would suddenly stop stealing? Of course not, because you didn't steal anyway because you already knew it was bad, for other reasons.
If gods were known not to exist, would that mean you would suddenlty start stealing? Again, of course not. You don't steal because you know it's wrong for other reasons, not because you have some fear or love of a god.
Therefore we have proven that the existence of gods is irrelevent.
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
Btw, there are atheists that are almost as fanatical about Atheism as there are muslims who are fanatical about Islam except that the Atheists are against religion.
"sweet dreams are made of this..."
It demonstrates with great clarity, (provided one is able to pull back from their damned tunnel vision first of all), just how bloody Christ-centric most of the world is. ?By this, I mean, everybody wants to put everybody else in one of those three stupid little boxes; Atheist, Agnostic, or None; people, I find, tend to stutter like the brain damaged when you tell them that their little score card is a conceited piece of shit.
Actually, if you check out the official list, there are almost 400 religions listed, including "Free thinkers", "Ancestor worshippers", "Own belief system" and pretty much everything else.
Yan
* No photons were harmed during the transmission of this message
I think this line's only filler
So does this perhaps indicate people who are decietful and liars?
They need this information to violate the separation between church and state (no first ammendment, due to no constitution). Why they need to violate that escapes me at 4:18 AM, though.
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
I looked around the census site, but it's not exactly well laid out for finding things.
Did Xenu beat Obi-Wan?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Believe it or not the person who started it all is a friend of mine from Auckland. For the last couple of censuses he's encouraged everyone to put Jedi down as their religion. This year, to make it sound more convincing and to make people more likely to 'vote' this way he added the complete fabrication that if they got 8000 then it would become an official religion. Someone obviously believed him enough to email their friends about it, and that's how it started. It's directly tracable to my friend from the '8000' figure.
To me it's a scarey demonstration of the power of the internet that any nutter spinning utter bullsh*t can have that much influence around the world.
That's a pretty good approximation of my own position, but I don't think "non-cognitivist" is the right term for it. Here's a pretty good essay on non-cognitivism, which is the view that ethical statements have no meaning other than as a description of how we feel or what we want others to do.
My view is that the term "god" lacks coherence; it is not well enough defined that one can meaningfully say much about it. In a pluralistic society, the question "Does god exist?" makes no sense without some clarification as to which God the question is about and what its characteristics are alleged to be.
I play Nerd-Folk!
I put down Jedi because I did care. I thought the question irrelevant and impertinent.
I very, very, nearly wrote in Frisbeetarian.
Paul
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
Knew this not, did you ????
Yeah - it's not U.S. centric enough and therefore has no place here....
I expect that if it was about the US government it would be of interest and all you god-damn-yanks would be whooping with joy.
Then we can start declare Jihad against those heretic of the FSF. Burn them, burn them all
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
so in the end: all that people who claim to be atheists or agnostics or whatever: all those people believe in some religion (e.g. as a philosophy that tells us who to live our life). some people have quite good ideas they believe in humanism and altruism. others only belive in egoism, hedonism, etc...
e.g.: as a christian we know that violence only leeds to more violence and that we need to break that vicious circle. so jesus said:
mat 5:38-44.
if bush and all the americans who claim to be christians would really be christians they would not start a war now.. and that would prevent WWIII. you see: religion has a lot of relevance to our live. wether god exists or not. we also see: a lot of people who claim to be religious (like bush and many other americans there..) are either idiots (they do not understand ther religion) or liers (they abuse it on purpose) but this is getting a bit offtopic here..
mond.
"Who cares what religion you are? The "official" religion of England was created because one man wanted a divorce, yes? Does filling the form out "wrong" (claiming to be a Jedi) get you free stuff, a tax break, or a chicken in every pot? If not, who the hell cares?"
It could get very interesting in the next few weeks as the government plans to bring in laws against religious hatred. Don't ask me why, but I thought arson and assault were already illegal.
The government is going to have a fun time implementing such a law, especially when the first cases come to court and questions about what a religion is are asked. The census data demonstrates that religious belief (and even lack thereof) is remarkably diverse. While inclusion on the list of 'religions' doesn't indicate anything other than enough people wrote it in to be worth allocating it a number (to help the data entry people), it could be considered descriptive--this is what people in the UK think religion is.
2) We tried the same thing in New Zealand. The government ditched the data as "spurious". Bastards.
There's no $$$ in 'team'...
www..--..net - for incisive, w
well if you base a series (LOTR) on the bible , and then you base a sci-fi movie series on LOTR , there's bound to be some resemblance.
---But one have to rely on them once in a while : especially when describing oneself to somebody who is impatient and only understand two possibilities "Are you or are you Not?"---
:)
The definitions of "theist" and "atheist" are constructed to exhaust the possibilities in a binary way. Either you have a god belief, or you don't. Being undecided is still a _lack_ of the active, affirmative step necessary to be a theist.
You may not like this binary definition, and hey: it's just a semantical construction. But they do ask an honest and specific question, and "agnostic" doesn't even answer the same question that was asked.
---unable to decide on the existence of Judeo-Christeo-type God due to lack of evidence ---
Well, yes. But so... do you then have a belief in god then, or not?
(just to ilustrate the point)
---(e) think Buffy is hot, but the show is blah ---
I am totally hooked on the arc and character plots, but the individual shows that carry these plots often suck. The result is that I'm an avid watcher of Tv that I don't much like.
The admission price is lower, for now. Remember, at one time L. Ron was just a bad sci-fi writer too. It's not unimaginable that Lucas might see the Jedi religion as a huge money-maker. Then again, he seems to have already made plenty; L. Ron complained about writing not being lucrative enough before founding $cientology.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
We will, however, endeavor to give away this non-secular set of URLs, including a year's free hosting.
face scans, of some of the notorious felons from redmond, who are, STILL, out on bail, last we heard.
This could be the start of something else terrible...
From a followup article about a month later in the same magazine:
"Neither have the Obi-wan Kenobi wannabes thought through the possible
downsides to their plan. What happens if 10,000 Darth Vaders declare themselves
for the 'Dark Side'? Would it be possible for the two churches to live together in
harmony? No chance. It's only a matter of time before some unrepentent Luke
Skywalker ends up tied to a stake on the village green with Darth Maul lighting a
bunch of faggots under him."
Please, use the force carefully regardless of your luminescent or sexual preference.
Census Officer: What's all this then? You've put down bleedin' "Jedi Knight" as religion, you bloody well can't do that. I could give you a whopping big fine for that. Let's see some flippin' identification, mate, or it's off to clink for you faster than you can say "Bob's your uncle."
Jedi: You don't need to see my identification.
Officer: I don't need to see your identification.
Jedi: You can't fine me for anything.
Officer: I can't fine you for anything.
Jedi: I can go about my business.
Officer: You can go about your business.
Jedi: Move along.
Officer: Move along. Move along now.
AC's cheerfully ignored
I live in Britain and the answer is...
Because making endles forms for people to fill in is an effective way of solving the unemployment problem and filling all those gigabyte disks people keep buying.
i'd like to lead a crusade against all of the fat pasty-ass losers who claim to be "jedi knight". what a bunch of fucking twits.
...Jesus Christ lived and walked the earth. He performed miracles, and was witnessed doing so by countless people -- documented by religious and secular historians alike. Moreover, the people who had spent their lives working with Jesus ultimately gave their lives as a testimony of their faith. So confident were they in the man (who was God) that they knew, they were not afraid to face death.
Luke Skywalker is fiction, made up by a man who is promoting a totally different set of religious ideas (mostly eastern mysticism). The history books, both of children who 'worship' Jedi's and mature adults who have no interest in the series, are mysteriously quiet on the whole phenomenon. A thousand years from now, we will remember Like Skywalker as a neat fictional story. Meanwhile, we will still remember Jesus as the Christ, the Saviour, and the Son of God.
I would think that if I could give strong evidence that my great grandparents believed in a 'religion' which had been consistently expressed during the past 100ish years I could swing 'official' status even without an ethnicity / old god / holy weed to wave around. ;-)
That the key practices of the religion had been suppressed by the government during that 100 years shouldn't prevent them being applicable once official status has been gained.
The question is - what do we call this religion? And what are its core beliefs?
How about slashdot and freedom. Simple. The key practices of the followers is to share what they have with other followers - slashdotters are as one!
Lets do it people - in 2121 they'll make documentaries about us and our insightfulness! interestingness! and funnyness! and thank us for eliminating redundant comments from the world!
045 Cooneyite - Eh? This is a new one on me.
060 Four Square Gospel - We believe that the path to salvation rests in eating properly.
082 Non-Subscribing Presbyterian - We believe in the same things other Presbyterians beleive in, but we don't find their ideas intriguing enough to subscribe to their newsletter.
094 Religious Society of Friends - I know it says "Quaker" in parentheses after it, but you have to admit: this sounds like a nice religion.
310 Chinese Religions - There's only over a billion Chinese people, but let's just lump all their religions together.
317 Free Thinker - This is one of those labels that, when people apply it to themselves, the exact opposite is true (cf. "open-minded").
347 Church of All Religion - We don't discriminate.
351 Realist - Okay, that one's just funny.
352 Free Church of Love - Formerly known as the Church of Free Love.
897 Heathen - Well, at least we can admit it.
My apologies to any people I may have offended.
isent this in leugue with the santa clause incident a while back?
Discordianism might have been a joke, but it has a lot in common (and perhaps was even based on) real religions.
Ever hear of Coyote?
Or Raven?
Or Erdu?
Or Loki?
Or Lucifer, in his early days?
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that all polytheistic religions contain a Trickster. Despite a few thousand years of Christian propaganda, they aren't "evil" or "destructive," just embracing of the unpredictable, of the wild. This is only a problem if you're a control freak (*cough* Leviticus *cough*).
I believe this is also why Discordianism before, and Trickster religions today (e.g., "Coyote Zen") are so popular among techies, even if we can't agree on definitions. Our working lives have to be extraordinarily controlled, so it's only natural that we're attracted to something that introduces some healthy unpredictability into our lives. Contrawise, people who have extremely chaotic lives are attracted to the highly regimented "everything has a rule" religions and cults.
On the larger issue, in the US there's the concept of the "Jeffersonian Cult of One." A religion does not require recognition from the government, does not require a minimum number of followers, etc., all it takes is ONE person who honestly believes in its tenets. Historically, like the "free exercise of religion" clause the religion still had to based on Christianity, but recently pretty much anything goes, provided you don't break (most) civil laws. But some civil laws can be broken, e.g., a recent case involved a local city that restricted the number of cars that could be parked on a city street for any household. A small church gathered in a private home, and routinely violated this law and was ticketed. The church sued, claiming the law had the de facto effect of unduely restricting First Amendment rights of assembly and religion since they did not block the street or other residences, only briefly took up most parking spaces once a week. They won, the law was thrown out as unconstitutional.
So in the US Wicca and pagan groups can get full First Amendment protection (although, in practice, there are still plenty of bigoted judges who feel no shame in proclaiming that a woman is unfit as a child's custodian because she's a Wiccan), and a "Jedi religion" would almost certainly qualify as well.
In the UK, the situation is much murkier since there's an official state religion.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
The purpose is to raise cash. They get $1,000 from every dumbass who puts down 'Jedi' as a religion. I mean come on, do you really want the government knowing you're a mouth-breathing sci-fi fanatic too? God knows it hasn't made your parents proud.
2001-10-09 16:11:59 Jedi Knights recognized as a religion (articles,news) (rejected)
Okay, so what's the secret? Is it just how you write the description for the news item? Is it just that I was, oh, 7 hours too early in submitting it?
I try and try... all my hopes pinned on what I think is a great story... rejected... then posted later.
Ack.
I'm wondering why with all the other screwy religions on there, Shinto isn't on the list. Sure most of them are Japanese, but I'd think there would be more than some of the other things in that list....
I'll believe in a god or gods when he/she/it/they make me one.
NIV
KJV
etc...
If I were meta-agnostic, I'd be confused over whether I'm agnostic or not but I'm not quite sure if I feel that way; hence I must be meta-metagagnostic (I guess).
--Douglas R. Hofstadter, Gödel, Escher, Bach
It's all about controlling the people.
Once the government knows *who* it's subjects are, it can tailor the propaganda and disinformation as necessary to control their behaviours.
See also: "National ID Card" (or "Social Security Number" in the US)
--
Spaz!
At the referenced PDF, page 92 (PDF page 18), there is a duplication: codes 325 and 332. (See what I mean?)
Better than Skoptsy as a religion :-)
You may not like this binary definition, and hey: it's just a semantical construction. But they do ask an honest and specific question, and "agnostic" doesn't even answer the same question that was asked.
:(. I have to keep telling people (in this on thread!) that "It's OK to sit on the fence!".
It seems that dichonomistic logic is the only one people are familiar with
Well, yes. But so... do you then have a belief in god then, or not?
I don't know if I have belief or not. It's OK to defer judgment until further evidence. This issue is too important to make a snap decision without clear evidence either or.
For eg, you are sick and the doctor couldn't decide if to operate on you or not because she hasn't figured out if that's going to help. Are you going to keep insisting "So do you believe that operating on me will save me or not?"
I'll take an "I don't know" anytime from the doctor if that's her honest answer.
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
>There was a Virgin birth in the family
There may have been no father, but who says she wasn't enjoying life otherwise?
Folks, theism -- meaning belief in a single all-powerful being that is separate from the earth, yada yada -- is a cultural peculiarity of the Semitic peoples of the Levant, whose rise was documented in the books we call the "Old Testament" or Torah, and which happens to have been exported to some other cultures (like ours). Most religions are not theistic!
Ask a Buddhist if he believes in God. Likely the answer will be something like "what on earth are you talking about?" Hindus and many others are polytheistic, which has a whole different set of philosophical interpretations which are not even conceived of in peoples "does God really exist" navel-gazing QED-spouting pontificating. Indigenous religions tend to be animist or pantheist.
There are many many different ways of conceptualizing the spiritual aspect of the world other than theism. RELIGION DOES NOT EQUAL BELIEF IN GOD.
Fight for your right to read books!
well written and i couldn't agree more!
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
fagot also faggot .
n.
A bundle of twigs, sticks, or branches bound together.
-Linux is SO fast it does an infinite loop in 5 seconds.
How about: I don't care or believe whether God exists, so why should you? I think this is a perfectly valid position, and that the people asking the question can be legitimatly told to "F*** off." This isn't my position, I just think that it should be recognized as one.
The ocean parts and the meteors come down
Laid out in amber, baby.
And "None" is just, well. . , nice life. Hope Hollywood and Sony Entertainment are able to fill all the gaps in your heart; the things of man get pretty dry after a while.
Wait a minute there, boyo. You open up your post by complaining (quite reasonably, I should say) about how Christ-centric religious people tend to be, but then you conclude it by asserting that all people who hold no supernatural views have "gaps in their heart" (whatever that means.) This is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black. While I have no problem with people who hold on to one religious view or another to placate themselves, it is a mistake for you to assume that your spiritual neediness is a common malady that affects all Mankind (it doesn't.)
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
This is a common phrase, but in reality there is no "dark side" of the moon. There is a side that is always facing the Earth, and there is a side that is always facing away from the Earth. The side that is facing away from the Earth gets just as much sunlight as the side that is facing us (we just don't see it.) What people really should say is "the far side of the moon", since it is more factually accurate.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
R2D2 and C3P0 are a gay couple, and hence both male "blokes".
How do you find out if someone is lying about their religion on the census? Even if they are known to be going to church every day, they could say that they are just doing that to appease their parents/gf/whatever while they secretly cultivate their Force power and train with the great Jedis of the past in lightsaber combat.
I'm having a hard time keeping a religion, sometimes it seems as though they all started out with somebody spinning a good scifi yarn around the campfire when suddenly some of the guys started going "Hey, man, that actually makes sense!"
Wouldn't the religion be just "Jedi"?
Good point. I think the believers of this philosophy would only be "jedi". The knights would be perhaps something like the "illuminated" ones (ones that have attained a really high level of perfection in the ways of the force)
Does this cover the dark side of the force as well?
It would certainly have to. Note that I'm not at all sure about that "religion" status, I think it should be more a way of life, a philosophy, somewhat like Tai Chi. Certainly, the jedi knights themselves don't treat it like a religion (which doesn't mean the lower-standing followers of the movement couldn't). Anyway, the dark side of the force is a really important part of the whole balance thing, and the force is just there, waiting to be used. It's the use you give to it that takes you to one or the other side.
Can you be of the Jedi religion without being a knight?
I think you could. Certainly, there is a viable system of beliefs and general way of determining the "good way" of behaviour for a believer, regardless of his status within the "religion" (knight, follower, priest -- are there priests?)
What's the official Jedi position on abortion, contraception and religious killing?
I don't think they have strong positions on these issues. They have never killed for religious reasons, but instead to preserve the balance of the universe. In this matter, the funny thing is, were the light side to become dominant, perhaps it would be best to throw some dark action in just to even the thing a bit, the way I see the belief system. Anyway, this would be a really difficult thing to happen, given the attraction and power of the dark side (in the movies, the dark side adepts fight against a whole bunch of light side pansies and give them a good whipping). Maybe any issue would have to be seen in this light, not as a preset stand.
How do you make those lightsabers anyway?
The technique is not a secret in it's totality, but a big part of it is the exact alignment of a set of crystals in order to attain the highly focused light beam, and it cannot be achieved by any other means than a great dominance of the force, which is why part of the jedi knight training is building their own light saber.
Thus proving I have no important things to do with my time right now....
Overcaffeinated. Angry geeks.
And, boy! That is one black kettle!
But seriously. . .
Everybody is, by necessity, exactly where they are supposed to be in terms of awareness. If you are satisfied with the smoke & mirrors act which is man's play within the cosmos, (and also by necessity, most people are), then clearly you're not done with all that stuff yet.
Give it time; another fifty or hundred lives or so. Everybody gets there eventually. . . (And whether or not you beleive me doesn't make a difference. --And incidentally, that's the fine thing about the 'fourth alternative' (for lack of a better term); nobody will ever ask you to put cash in the collection plate and nobody will knock on your door or generally try to push the belief structure down your throat. --And they sure as heck won't do it with guns or swords and shit! The further up the ladder you go, the more you realize that Karma is based on not interferring with other people's growth. Of course, people will always offer their opinions and want to talk about what they believe, but then people are like that about baseball.)
In any case, I tend to act with arrogance & self-centered hot air cuz that's how stuff leaves my tonsils with greatest level of amusement. --I'm sure there are many reasons people post on Slashdot, but I happen to be driven by an insane urge to take pot-shots at all those fish in the barral from time to time. You know; toy with the monkeys. --Or more accurately, I see Slashdot as a cardboard box where only some very limited thinking is acceptable, (where even the almighty sciences are accepted piece meal based on what people are allowed to believe by governments and corporations. Funny how if you get the kids young enough, only rarely through the course of their adult lives do they ever question the content of their grade nine text books. --Was Tesla taught in your highschool? Did they tell you how his invention of radio came about as a result of one of those experiences where a family member died half a world away and he knew about it the same instant? Hmm. . . And just how far did he go with that thinking? Look into this; it's fascinating and very revealing. Cuz you see, Science and Spirituality are the same animal, but with that understanding comes the real possibility of unlimited power, so certain interests like to keep a choke rope on knowledge.)
And no, Marconi did not invent the radio. He was retroactively awarded the patent after Tesla yawned at simplicity of radio and failed to develop the technology in time for the war effort. Look it up. As propagandic as television generally is, PBS actually managed to do a really good documentary on the guy.
*Ahem*. Pardon me; I was doing it again.
Anyway, I think of Slashdot as a box filled with silly & hyper mice racing around inside with no idea that there is a larger world for the taking. If people don't dangle strings from time to time, then it's a much longer and harder process for people to escape.
Stay if you want; nobody cares. Indeed, you'll get eaten alive if you leave before you're ready. But it's neighborly to toss a string from time to time even if it's rejected. Karma is also about making one's self available just for the heck of it.
-Fantastic Lad
So people like me getting qualifications in statistics have something to pretend we're talking about.
wu hsin.
Everybody knows that a real Jedi would send the census-taker away with a wave of his hand and something like "These aren't the statistics you're looking for.. go about your business."
No eyewitness accounts? I see him at the mall every year, as do millions of others.
Because, contrary to what many ill-informed, cynical people on this thread have been spouting, the government of the UK does try to prevent unjustified discrimination against people, including discrimination on the grounds of religion. The only easy but relatively fair way they can tell if this is going on is to compare profiles in, for example, promotion within a company to the overall profile of the population. And the only way they can get that overall profile is to ask people what their religion is. All you smart-asses who claim they don't need to know are actually damaging the efforts to stop religious discrimination so please grow up and form some of your own opinions instead of perpetuating this rubbish.
Now, as to how they justify asking for personal details such as name, address and employer (as opposed to, say, geographical area of work and job title), that's an entirely different matter. The request to provide a matching name & religion pair is the reason why many people I know objected to that question.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Where the hell are my presents, then? I guess I must be on the "naughty" list. :)
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Which was probably also what Jesus was practicing. (Where the Magdalene was the high priestess symbolising Isiris and Jesus Osiris).
:)
Jesus was just a disciple of John the Baptist which himself had quite a large following. The Church of John survived for a very long time after his death, btw. Da Vinci was obsessed with him at least.
This and other facts was repressed by the emerging and immensely popular Christian church.
But it can now be studied in the rediscovered Dead Sea Scrolls among other gnostic "lost" old documents. One can certainly see the reason for the church to try and hide these heretic texts.
And later it created the Inquisition to really try to wipe out the knowledge for good. And this knowledge (among others) was the real secrets kept by the Templars, Gnostics and other weirdos.
Da Vinci was certainly one of the initiates (as can be seen in almost *all* of his paintings, especially "Last supper" and "Adoration of the Magi").
Not that this has anything to do with anything, though.
if L Ron Hubbard can blatantly do this, then why can't George Lucas do the same thing accidentally?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
What I'm sure you meant to say was, "by casually rejecting an entire set of unprovable and uneccesary premises such as God and the afterlife . . ." you imply by your logic chopping that I am substituting my non-god for god. That is not the case. I have moved beyond that, and I am not grappling with that question anymore at all. Atheism is a direct statement of "there is no god, nor any need for one." Agnosticism is "god may or may not exist, but we don't know that, really." I do not need to prove, or even worry about, the non-existence of a being you invent to explain things. That is the fundamental difference. I have not invented a being to take the place of God. I have simply dismissed the question as no longer worth arguing about.
Most of what God was invented to explain is now understood. We know the mechanism whereby the Earth was created, or at least we think we're close. We know what makes the stars shine. We know what makes our hearts beat. We have some good ideas about the building blocks of matter and energy. None of these things require us to furrow our eyebrows about what role God has in things. This compendium of non-god-related premises is not a competing set of beliefs, it's the scientific and technological foundations upon which modern society was built. You cannot go anywhere in this world (well, except maybe the hills of Afghanistan) without being close to, and possibly dependent for your survival on, the technological benefits of this process. Not a leap of faith at all.
That would be because his writing sucked ass. He knew neither science nor fiction. What he was doing trying to make money writing it was beyond my comprehension.
There's only over a billion Chinese people, but let's just lump all their religions together.
Maybe I am an ignorant, but I thought that the main religion in China is pick-and-mix depending on the moment in your life and your necessities.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Or Linux?
---It seems that dichonomistic logic is the only one people are familiar with :(. I have to keep telling people (in this on thread!) that "It's OK to sit on the fence!".---
Sure it's okay. It's just that as these two words are defined, there IS no fence to sit on. If you don't like it, then you need to use different words. The only reason you see a fence is that you keep misinterpreting the question to be "tell me, does god exist or not, and how to do know?" That is NOT the question that "theist/atheist" dictonomy asks.
---I don't know if I have belief or not. It's OK to defer judgment until further evidence. This issue is too important to make a snap decision without clear evidence either or. ---
Again: judgement and belief are two different things. Belief is saying "I believe that god exists." If you DON'T do this, you are by definition not a believer, which puts you squarely in the atheist camp.
---For eg, you are sick and the doctor couldn't decide if to operate on you or not because she hasn't figured out if that's going to help. Are you going to keep insisting "So do you believe that operating on me will save me or not?" ---
If the doctor wont give an affirmative answer, then he certainly doesn't yet believe THAT it will. That doesn't mean that he believes that it wont, just that he isn't able to say he believes that it will. THAT IS consistent with the "I don't know" answer.
...didn't Satanism get the code 666?
:)
Surely that would have been logical and memorable for the census processors.
Asikaa
Come in, twenty-seventy-seventy, your time is up.
Instead of saying your religion is Jedi, you could say you are a follower of the Force and that includes being a member of the Sith. If you still believe you are a Jedi Knight... remember that the story of your people is found in the fiction section of the library.
I realize that this story is supposed to be funny but making fun of peoples' religious beliefs is not at all humorous. 8^)
Live wrong, impostor.
OK. I'll keep sitting on the fence. And if somebody ask me "Do you believe or not?" I'll just snort, laugh maniacally, and refuse to give an answer!
;).
I.e., no answer. The questioner never knows my answer, because I have none!
How's that for size
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
There are lots of flavours of Buddishm. Some are about re-incarnation, some are about tantric fun, some are about minimalism. All are about Nirvana, but everything else differs.
It'd be nice if they didn't lump them all together and foster stereotypes like this. I don't say that if you're a Christian, being a Baptist Christian or a Catholic is the same.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I used GhostScript to extract the list of religions -- around 180 or so. So many choices! What if South Park was right and only the Mormons get to heaven? If I use a program to extract copyrighted content from a non-US website document, does this contravene the DMCA?
Da Blog
Hmmm if Jedi actually does become a religon can it please be Pro SEX, and Pro Science,evoulution etc?(I'm sick of the Anti science religions).
Since the question is just one of semantics (ie. it really does not matter), can't you just flip a coin, and give that random answer? Why or why not? (What point do you think I am trying get across?)
I doubt anyone in this world has the dedication and discipline to become a Jedi's personal secretary, let alone an actual Jedi.
Why do you all feel the need to worship a couple movies? Sure, they were pretty good, but obsessing over a fairy tale? Please.
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
----I.e., no answer. The questioner never knows my answer, because I have none! ---
If you really have no answer, then by definition, you are an atheist. Only people that answer "yes" are theists. Everyone else lacks belief.
The "fence" only appears to exist for you as long as you continue to misinterpret the definitional criteria of theism/atheism distinction in the first place.
There is no evidence that there is a god or Jesus was any more a than man. The same as you or me.
werd
Rangers Lead the Way!
But allow me to expound on the hypothetical situation you propose. A special allowance for smoking pot is (arguably) more "right" because smoking pot is a consensual "crime" -- an individual smoking pot can only harm others in the room sucking down their second-hand, and of course, "the children" from "What about the <outrage>children</outrage>??!!?!" fame.
So as not to start a debate on the righteousness of intellectual property law in any particular country/jurisdiction -- I'll just close this out by saying that *if* you accept intellectual property law (whatever that set of laws may be), your religion should not get special rights to break those laws -- because they are not "victimless" crimes you'd be committing.
Committing those crimes in the name of religion would be (NOT on the same scale, trust me I saw it from 10 blocks away, but) in the same ballpark as using religion to justify WTC attacks.
*sigh*.
Today, my answer is no. Today only.
Come ask me the same question tomorrow again for a new reevaluation of the evidence.
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
actually the who religion and constitutionality thing, although you got part of it right, is that No religion can be founded/followed for the specific purpose of violating a law(s). Also that no law specifcaly can be made to inhibit religion. It's a 2 sided sword... however as the intent of the DMCA wasn't to promote or proibit a religion then it is constitutional. Now if somehow we could prove that Microsoft or other companies are religions and that the DMCA was made to directly benifit them we might have some sort of loose (and i use that term strictly) case.
"It's the Law of the Universe, and I'm the sheriff." Slash-cott 2/10-2/17
the case decision was that the tribe members could NOT use peyote as the law prohibiting it's use was intended for enfocement among all people, and was not made specificaly to promote or prohibit a specific religion. I don't remember the name of the case but i'll be sure to post it as soon as i look it up.
"It's the Law of the Universe, and I'm the sheriff." Slash-cott 2/10-2/17
---Today, my answer is no. ---
Answer to which question? "Does a god exist?" and "Do you believe in god?" are two different questions, and the "atheism/theism" distinction is only concerned by the answer to the second.
---Come ask me the same question tomorrow again for a new reevaluation of the evidence.---
Okay. Who said that people can't change? One day, you might believe, the next, not. One day you might be an atheist, and awake the next as a theist. So? Does that make the definitions of these terms any more uncertain?
Does a god exist is not answerable with current evidence.
:).
Do I believe in god gets a no answer for today.
I am happy with changing my stance on my beliefs every day or so.
God, semantics. That'll be the end of me.
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
The oddest aspect I find about the whole subject of religion is the large number who use the word "God" as a name?!
..THAT is NOT original since Moses; the fugitive from Eqypt, asked that long ago!!
To a/the deity, surely the use of what is purely a CATEGORY as a name must be a insult!
For instance, one would not address Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II of England, as "Queen"?!
If one asks, what is the Name then?- thinking to be funny or original
.
The answer is a word not normally used by members of the Judaist Faith, due to superstition, but it certainly is NOT the word "God"!
(If you want THIS name, look up a GOOD Dictionary, after the word "yahoo")
Regards,
JK
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Or do they give us the "holy text" with the middle first, followed by the beginning?