Slashdot Mirror
U.S. Considers Microsoft Passport as National ID
An anonymous submitter writes: "Ladies and gents, the endtimes have begun. The Seattle Times is reporting that Mark Forman, associate director of information technology at the White House (or 'America's CIO', as he bills himself) has said the feds are considering the use of Microsoft's Passport technology to ID every citizen and every business seeking access to government services online. This is about as scary as it gets." To be fair, it looks very preliminary. Read the article. So many companies have tried to assist the government in providing services over the Net... but I guess if your lobbyists are good enough, you can be heard at the top.
Who cares? I never use online services by the federal govt. Only exception is filing income taxes (and electronic filing DIDN'T WORK this year).
sulli
RTFJ.
This is some kind of sick joke, isn't it?
I'm out of my tree just now but please feel free to leave a banana.
I'm moving to Canada. Who's with me?
That is the first story I've read on Slashdot that has made me feel numb. I'm scared.
sPh
Ladies and Gentlemen...
All your citizens are belong to us!
Now I can't imagine being unable to reenter the country because the Passport servers were down again. Grrrreat.
What's your damage, Heather?
Oh no they don't! Who do I have to vote against to get this to stop?
So they're going to trust the information of every single citizen to a corporation that has a known criminal track record? That's intelligent. What next, find a crack dealer to handle international trade?
Yes, I realize the offenses are different... but this is still stupid. It federally mandates giving Microsoft business. Well, not really... if an alternate ID is available, they should accept that.
- Free tabletop fantasy gaming! Grey Lotus
This should not be about using Passport to grant access to public services, it's about having a mechanism to access public services.
I'm a UK citizen, and we live under the shadow of the beast here with the UK government gateway being developed by/with Microsoft, so I have sympathy.
However we will need to access government services online, and we need to do it somehow.
I'm not suggesting we use Passport (christ no!), but we will need to use something!
Anyway have good fares to Switzerland?
char *mySig;
...was two weeks ago.
If this happens... I'm moving to Canada. I think if this starts to become serious that MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people will start to scream about it. I'm sorry, but, I don't buy into the "One World. One System" bullshit.
Because Slashdot is only about FUD.
ÕÕ
Welcome to the United State of Microsoft. (Or maybe President Bill prefers the Microsoft States of America).
You'll need to update Microsoft and have them reset your passport everytime you get a haircut..
Josh Woodward
Why not let Microsoft handle our bank accounts too?
^_^
Big Brother is coming, and his name is Bill Gates. What's next, scanning our hard drivers for "thoughtcrime"?
I refuse to believe that our government is so stupid as to pander to the monopoly that it is sueing. Reason must prevail. I know that if we have to, we can kill this idea the same way we killed the SSSCA.
Forman, who is overseeing the government's purchases of $100 billion worth of technology this year and next, was a featured speaker at the Microsoft Government Leaders Conference in Seattle this week.
So, how do we get this guy out of public office? This is sickening. The government pursues them for monopolistic practices, and then we still this this gross conflict of interest arising..
THANKS MICHAEL!
Username taken, please choose another one.
Shouldn't the fact that the US government is still suing Microsoft weigh in, at least a little bit, on the choice of Microsoft for handling the national IDs?
Let's use public key authentication and associate keys with SSN's... all we'd need to do is find a way to abstract the whole thing for the end users.
Still scary, but an important difference.
A normal stamp with a barcode on our foreheads? I think that would be better. We don't even need a passport, we can't loose it, the only way to loose the identity is to cut the head off ;)
;)
*beep* - uh sorry sir, you have not paid your taxes. $800 please
Canada?
New Zealand?
Iceland?
The Netherlands?
Microsoft: Where do you want to go^H^H flee today?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
You know, I've known lots of people who have said, "If so-and-so gets elected, I've moving to another country." Well, so-and-so *did* get elected, and they are still here. But if the government adopts a privately-owned system as a national ID, I *will* be moving elsewhere.
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
So how does this work now?
...
...
... click click ...
Does the passport == hotmail address? or msn email?
Does it become a legal address?
I can just see it now... one passport is assigned to each U.S. citizen, to provide a single email address through microsoft that not only will have possibly one's bills, and tax information, and any normal legal correspondance but also a single point of spam with very poor filtering options.
I'd love to see how they implement it... Hotmail?
"We're sorry your inbox is full (4,231 messages) Please upgrade to MS Premium E-Mail service"
... check check check
"1,242 messages filtered into 'Junk Mail' folder"
... click click
'Oh my, its still all spam!'
... click click click click
...
you get my point....
Is not life a hundred times too short for us to bore ourselves? -Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
well it could be worse... just imagane the headline : government chooses Brilliant Digital Entertainment as its sole distributor .... :)
my god could you imagane having to use Passport in order to e-file you taxes....
Come on guys! April Fool's Day was almost 3 weeks ago, this joke is *really* late.
Ask me how the Heisenberg Principle may or may not have saved my life.
Mark Forman, associate director of information technology at the White House (or 'America's CIO', as he bills himself)...
Oh god, another clueless CIO who understands nothing...
As long as I can hack MS Passport to say that I'm Bill Gates, I think that this is a GREAT idea!
I bet they are carving billg out on Mount Rushmore right now...
So, now I have to change my name to MyName234927545794_2002@hotmail.com :D ?
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
Game over man, this is crazy
Does this mean every American will have a hotmail account? Think of the spam...
The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data.
Let's get beyond the FUD here. Passport is being considered as a means to authenticate users of US government services online. Nothing more. This is a far cry from a "national ID," which implies that citizens are required to have it. When was the last time you used US government services online? If the government wants to select Microsoft as a vendor for a particular service, I may think it's a bad business decision, but I don't think I can claim my rights are being violated.
Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
...As far as Microsoft and the government is concerned, my real name is Harry Feltersnatch.
Seriously. How can this possibly work? How many of you are using your *real* name in your passport account?
"Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."
I mean, if Larry "boy, I look like a little twat" Ellison and his pet company wants to store all our personal data, it's only right that their biggest competitor should have a shot too.
Can't wait 'till I'm a barcode.
I vote that the government should mandate the use of our Slash IDs as our government mark of the beast!
The president could have the ID: CmndrTaco
Vice president ID: Hemos
Homeless people: Anonymous Coward
Blackout losers: -2 (can't be seen)
Karma Whores: Spackler
This will be great!
Feds might use Microsoft product for online ID
By Brier Dudley
Seattle Times technology reporter
Mark Forman
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Forget about a national ID card. Instead, the federal government might use Microsoft's Passport technology to verify the online identity of America's citizens, federal employees and businesses, according to the White House technology czar.
On Sept. 30, the government plans to begin testing Web sites where businesses can pay taxes and citizens can learn about benefits and social services. It's also exploring how to verify the identity of users so the sites can share private information.
Microsoft's Passport is being considered as a way to authenticate users of the Web sites, said Mark Forman, associate director of information technology at the White House.
"They are involved in that discussion,'' he said, adding that the government has not yet selected which technology it will use.
Forman, who is overseeing the government's purchases of $100 billion worth of technology this year and next, was a featured speaker at the Microsoft Government Leaders Conference in Seattle this week.
Forman is a former Senate staffer who worked for IBM and Unisys before he joined the Bush administration.
Describing himself as the government's chief information officer, he said his priorities are to impose businesslike approaches for technology deployments and to monitor improvements they bring.
After the Sept. 11 attacks, some politicians and business leaders have called for a national identification card, but Forman said that's not in the works. "We don't have any plans for a national ID card," he said.
The White House is instead pursuing an "e-identification" initiative, an effort to develop ways to authenticate people and businesses online who already have government identification numbers such as Social Security, business-registration and employer-identification numbers.
At the government-leaders conference, attended by representatives of 75 countries, Microsoft presented a blueprint for its "e-government" strategy that suggests they use Passport to verify the identity of visitors to their Web sites. It also suggested that its bCentral business Web site could be used to process business tax payments and that citizens could use its MSN Web site to handle address changes and voter registration.
Governments have long been some of Microsoft's biggest customers. Its desktop software for office workers and back-end software running networks are widely by used by state and federal agencies, and the company has developed Internet portals for the United Kingdom, Mexico and other nations.
But getting the United States to use Passport to authenticate its 285 million citizens online would be a coup for the Redmond software company. It would also be a large step toward fulfilling Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates' stated goal of getting everyone on the Internet to use Passport as their sign-on tool.
Yesterday, appearing at the conference, Gates reiterated the goal, saying he expects governments in many countries will find it difficult getting to "critical mass" with authentication systems they develop on their own. He said some governments may opt to use companies such as Microsoft or America Online as "the bank" that registers people for online usage.
Passport was introduced in 1999 and is the keystone of an array of online services the company introduced a year ago, when Gates revealed his ambitions for the service.
After privacy advocates attacked the plan and a coalition of major corporations formed an alliance to develop standards for authentication systems that would work together, Microsoft toned down its approach. It now acknowledges that Passport will co-exist with other tools.
Forman said his team has also been contacted by the coalition, called the Liberty Alliance, and will meet with them at some point.
The current version of Passport requires little personal information other than an e-mail address, but a new, more secure version expected by mid-2003 may be used to store sensitive data on Microsoft's network.
Microsoft says it has 200 million people registered to use Passport, most of whom signed up because Microsoft told them it was needed to use other Microsoft services, such as its free Hotmail e-mail service or Windows XP operating system. According to Gartner, a research company based in Stamford, Conn., only 2 percent signed up because of the service's stated purpose: to avoid having to use multiple identifications and passwords at different Web sites.
Avivah Litan, vice president and research director at Gartner, said expanding Passport benefits Microsoft by drawing more Web traffic, making its sites more appealing to advertisers and enabling the company to charge "click through" fees for online sales executed using the service.
But the company may ultimately decide it's not worthwhile to boost the service from a tool of convenience for consumers to a verification service relied upon by businesses and government.
"Once you start vouching for identity, that makes you liable for fraud, that makes you liable for identity theft," Litan said.
Also at the conference, Microsoft announced plans to bring Internet access to government services to Mexico through a network of kiosks developed with the company's technology.
I swear to -god- my five year old has better reading comprension than some of you people.
The article mentions that is is for online services three times.
Quotes, with revelant words bolded for those of you who haven't finished 5th grade English yet.
"Microsoft's Passport is being considered as a way to authenticate users of the Web sites, said Mark Forman, associate director of information technology at the White House."
"The White House is instead pursuing an "e-identification" initiative, an effort to develop ways to authenticate people and businesses online who already have government identification numbers such as Social Security, business-registration and employer-identification numbers. "
"At the government-leaders conference, attended by representatives of 75 countries, Microsoft presented a blueprint for its "e-government" strategy that suggests they use Passport to verify the identity of visitors to their Web sites. It also suggested that its bCentral business Web site could be used to process business tax payments and that citizens could use its MSN Web site to handle address changes and voter registration"
---
Yes, its an amazingly laughable idea -- but its not the Big Brother in cahoots with Evil Bill Gates to steal all our privacy that the orignal poster makes it out to be.
http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3357354385
So I can't read the article - the Seattle site seems to be already slashdotted...
But what exactly is going on here? I already see people worrying and having heart palpitations. The story submission says "Microsoft Passport technology" not Microsoft Passport.
In priniciple this just means that Goverment is going to start tracking people as they access goverment online services... kinda like they already do using our Social Security numbers in meat-space - and/or cookies set by goverment servers in cyber-space. (I think it would be foolishly naive to imagine that people aren't already being tracked.)
This is just a logical extension of what is already going on.
Good questions to ask: "Can a user opt out?" "What about users from other countries and locales?" "What is going to be done with the info?".
Who was it who said "Privacy is dead already - all we have anymore is obscurity." (Or something like that.) Obviously this is the direction we've been heading for quite sometime. Now we see clearly - before we saw through a glass darkly...
In illa quae ultra sunt
I really wish that was the explination...
The problem always has been that no matter how secure transactions are online, Uncle Sam wants a damn key to open everything and snoop for "safety's sake." And what happens if they read something they misinterpret/don't like? You might get sent up for 20 years with no trial, for national security's sake... if that doesn't made you shudder, I dont know what will.
when Bush and Dick was elected...by a screwup.
Go ahead, I have Karma to burn...damn republican rednecks
While Microsoft is not the answer, the open-source community should seriously think of another solution to a national e-ID problem. It's easy to bitch about Microsoft if you don't have a better idea.
The community would be well served to either design and endorse an open-source passport system, or alternatively design another means of identification in our hyper-paranoid electronic universe. Once we have done that, then we can seriously fight to keep our internet passport free!
They think of using MS "technology", not selling to MS the ID checking business. It's a very different thing.
What Human Rights Orgs. should do is to convinge the gov. that this "technology" is not really a good, reliable source.
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------
So microsoft has flogged the hated UK passport/gateway system to the USA, well
The Register has a far better
Write up then I could ever do.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Is this the same government that is suing them for being manipulative, controlling and illegially imposing restrictions on their customers? The irony never ends.
that Bill Gates declared himself president of the US? I mean seriously. The government is the biggest corporation in the world, it only makes sense that it should merge with the second biggest one.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Hello I am Bill Gate's lapdog and I look like a goof
What makes you think the Canadians (or any other country) should let Americans move and work there in large numbers? Canadians have been paying higher taxes and fought hard to live in a nice country. Americans have been cheap, greedy, and apathetic. As a result, their social services have deteriorated and their government has become corrupt. Now, Americans have to pay the price.
This will never happen. Once the press really gets ahold of this idea, it will be over. You gotta figure that news like this is going to really drive a lot of malicious attacks on the passport service. On the flip side though, expect Scott McNealy to have something dumb to say about this in the near future.
...suggest something truely undesirable and then fall back to what was desired by some in government in the first place but wouldn't have normally been accepted by the public -- a national ID
I can't believe this. At the same time the government is trying to stop Microsoft monopoly, they are considering to help support it. How ironic that they would basically give Microsoft a monopoly over this.
FoonDog
A natoinal ID program isnt that bad in my option, thats if they keep monitoring to a minimum. Now if a commercial company like microsoft is doing it, expect everything to be tracked. It wouldnt suprise me if we saw personalied MS adds where ever we went.
Microsoft: No, we are not a monopoly
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
This country hasnt had a good revolution in awhile. Who better to organize one than the technophiles?
Why not use slashdot logons for passports instead.
Who the hell needs passport.com.
The slashdotstates of america!
So, what are they supposed to use, a really big passwd file? OpenLDAP? Novell NDS? A big Oracle database? Why should we even care what the technology is, as long as it works?
But, the idea that you'll need to register in order to read government documents, now THAT is interesting, and somewhat troubling. But I couldn't care less what technology they use.
Unfortunately, all the Microsoft-hating government pawns around here seem to have missed the real point of the article.
i mis-read the title as 'U.S. Considers Passport as National ID'. and thought "well thats not so strange, here in the UK, i sometimes use my Passport as ID".
then i re-read and realise they're talking about MICROSOFT Passport!!!?
yikes!!!!
How about some balance here guys? This is a preliminary study. Granted, none of us real people (i.e. citizens) want the gov't in bed with MS, want MS to be in control of gov't data, or want the gov't to have any more info on us than absolutely necessary, but this is just an avenue they are exploring.... and why is this putz "America's CIO" anyway? How did this happen??? About the same time Gore 'invented' the internet??? Speak out on this NOW and maybe it will die a quick death....
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
It then became clear to me, that come the apocalypse, the mark of the beast would be Alice 32367@hotmail.com and Bob8217@msn.com.
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
This seems like another Microsoft "Big Bad Wolf" story, but it seems like a bunch of hype from another jerk congressman. Given how easy it is to get passports (does anyone here actually *use* hotmail for anything important?), there is no way that this will ever be a legitimate form of identification. Given that Microsoft is still in the courts for the antitrust lawsuit, I think this story is utterly unrealistic. And thank god for that. =)
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
Say this happens. A week later, a security hole is exploited and all sorts of havoc ensues. This can open up the door to a massive class-action lawsuit against MS.
Anyway, whatever they do, they should require that certain standards exist for user ID'ing, so people can use whatever they want, not just Passport(tm).
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
If you're going to write, you should write Mr. Forman and his boss, in addition to your Congresscritters. Be sure to mention that by requiring Passport, the government is effectively forcing its citizens to use Microsoft's technology in order to access the public information. What happens if MS decides to start charging for Passport use? Will citizens then have to pay Microsoft to access public information? This is especially disturbing considering that the government is currently in ligitation against MS. I think part of the problem is that some government departments think it doesn't matter if some OTHER government department is in ligitation with MS. Make sure the people you write understand that you don't make that distinction. Try to equate MS with Enron, by asking if they would be so quick to adopt any of Enron products. After all, both companies used donations to affect policy, both companies have broken the law, and both companies are under investigation by the DOJ.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Article
After the Sept. 11 attacks, some politicians and business leaders have called for a national identification card, but Forman said that's not in the works. "We don't have any plans for a national ID card," he said.
translate:
If we would have used MS software the world would have been a safe place
I should have put some witty comment here but this whole story is just too stupid. Aren't I glad I'm not an american. (although, according to Passport I am, and 108 years old. Living in Beverly Hills. Brilliant)
If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
Face it, kids...this is a long way off. My reasoning (such as it is on a Thursday morning):
1. Known security flaws in the existing product; until they can be definitively shown to be proof against the l33t and script kiddies, it won't be implemented.
2. Diversity of platforms; I remember accessing a site not that far in the past that required Netscape to make some of the functions work. Where's that gonna leave the IE people? (Opera wasn't an option at the time...maybe I'll go try it.) Of course, that can work both ways - some hotshot GS5 "webmaster" will write a site with strict IE extensions and tell all the Netscape users to change browsers if they want to access the services for that bureau.
3. Public outcry; I don't think I need to look much further than what I'm seeing so far in the "like HELL they are" sort of comments in this topic to demonstrate my point.
Just my two cents' worth...save up the change for a root beer or something.
All the world's an analog stage, and digital circuits play only bit parts.
BE VERY AFRAID!!!
"You're on my side and the dark side, like Lando Calrissian?" --Gimpy, Undergrads
But getting the United States to use Passport to authenticate its 285 million citizens online would be a coup for the Redmond software company.
Something tells me that wasn't just a figure of speech.
If this happens I say we create a separate, probably wireless, network separate from this internet.
pretty soon it's going to be a lot more difficult to create a passport with false information, get one while you still can......and don't do it from home
Electronic versions of fake IDs become so much easier. Hours of fun and the chance of free stuff!
It would be much scarier if the goverment used a solid and secure technology.
I be a believer when Bill Gates declares himself ruler of the United States of the World and starts a campaign to embed flash-chip#666 in everyone's hand with their MS Passport information
heh =)
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
How convenient for Gatesy. Help stop terrorism and fulfill a corporate goal at the same time!
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased. Thus we refute entropy" - Spider Robinson
Imagine being refused entry to the US because someone has already entered because of you due to modifying the entry URL at passport/immigration control and inserting your name!(hotmail.com anyone?????)
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this listed somewhere as a sign of the apocalypse being upon us? War, Famine, Pestilence and Microsoft in bed with the government.
Because it would be a government publication and government publications cannot be copyrighted. Isn't that the case? Perhaps it you wouldn't call that open souce. But wouldn't it have to be openly documented and copyright free?
Along with:
-- Hulk Hogan returns to the WWF
-- Lexus puts Mark Levinson audio systems in their cars
There were some others, but I forgot them.
"Don't worry, it's not loaded." --Terry Kath
You know, I'm getting really tired of EVERY FREAKING WEBSITE UNDER THE SUN wanting my personal information. Not just government web sites, but just about everything else nowadays.
- Want news? Tell us who you are so we can send you spam.
- Want to try a free demo? Tell us who you are so we can send you spam.
- Want to buy our product? It only costs $XXX.XX but you have to give us your personal information if you want it to be activated.
Blah, blah, blah. How about a web site that links to other web sites in various categories that DO NOT demand personal information (including email)? And a "hall of shame" of sites and products (or vendors) to avoid.
- The IRS can force me to get a MS Passport only when they outlaw PAPER.
Cheers,
Wind
(Not bad for a company under investigation!).
Somebody hack Passport, quick! Before this madness becomes reality and before "ID theft" takes on a whole new kind of meaning.
Even then, there is a sardonic part of me that relishes in possibility #3 above... =)
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Nationalistic US crackers today announced that they had done the impossible - by revoking the PassPort account of Osama bin Laden, recently issued by the INS. An unnamed inside source was quoted as saying, "I didn't know there was ANY way to revoke a passport account. I wish I could use this technique to get rid of the extra accounts I get with every Microsoft purchase. But maybe not, after all my extra votes help on election day."
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
As a U.S. citizen who lived abroad for many
years and finally immigrated to the C.C.R.
(Cheney Rumsfeld Republic), I already have
most of my personal belongings packed and ready
for exit to a country that has some semblance
of a public dialogue about how its residents
are sequestered.
I am willing to go on television to brag about
seeking asylum in a country with democracy.
Thanks for nothing W.
(P.S. Best Wishes for a Happy 4-20)
Woot_spork
Washington, D.C. (AP).- In a surprising turn of events, Americans have elected Bill Gates as President of the United States.
After a recount of all votes, Gates received 89 percent of all votes, leaving oponents Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tom Hanks with 3 and 2 percent each.
"It's hardly a surprise", said Steve Ballmer, campaign manager for Gates, "Bill has showed great leadership skills and built the greatest company in American history".
Ballmer then made a turnaround in his position about the infamous "Mother's Day documents", and admitted "there might be some truth to them".
The documents were published by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an underground group that has been described as the political arm of hackers and ciberterrorists, and wer purported to have been obtained from Microsoft's internal servers. Gates and Ballmer denounced them as a fabrication.
"I guess we can tell you the truth now", said Ballmer, after Gates' voctory was official, "there might be something there".
The documents include a series of emails in which Gates, Ballmer and Microsoft's VP of legal affairs, John Ashcroft, discuss several courses of action in they won the election. Among them were: Change the countrys name to Microsoft States of América, change Gates's title from President to Chief Architect of Everything, and outlaw the use of any software not certified as "secure" by Microsoft Corp.
Critics have pointed to the posibility of electoral fraud, but the governmente has refuted the posibility.
"It's ridiculous. Preposterous", said a spokesman from the Electronics Elections Office. "We used Windows CE doubleplussecure 2018 for the polls machines, and Microsoft XXP Security-Above-All Server for the counting. These are the most secure systems in the world, and they're incapable of errors".
After being questioned on the possibility of a bug in the system, the spokesman refused to answer, pointing out that the recently passed Corporations Antidefamation Act expresely prohibits the discussion of any possible flaws in software products, lest they be used for ciberterrorism purposes.
... to see Bruce Schneier's take on this.
I've never seen his face turn puple, but this'll do it for sure.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Seattle Times is late with the story. It's April 18th, not April 1st... ;-)
And you can (online) in my state and locality:
* pay local traffic tickets,
* renew driver's licenses,
* renew vehicle registrations,
* pay property taxes,
etc.
Once a federal online ID becomes pervasive, it'll be used for every state and local online transaction also, just like SSN's filtered down to the state and local levels. And personally, I don't want M$ having all that info.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
...we have the answer to Joel's question.
At least it won't with Microsoft's technology. I can't say that I like the idea. Perennially it could have some benefits, but the possibility of having your ID stolen, having the database stolen, etc and the privacy concerns will kill it. Also, if they did this with $M technology, I wouldn't allow my ID to be placed in it, and I wouldn't use it. The government isn't stupid enough to do this. Yes, the government is stupid, but not this stupid. To many politicians would get roasted, so it will not happen.
I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong
So MS cannot penetrate the business world so now they are buying the US Gov. This so laughable but hey money is everything. MS wants to rule the world ....that was always their goal. Hope the Justice department pays some attention to the people than money from MS. No one is safe from MS......we are DOOMED.
Thank you for taking your valuable time away from being wined, dined and brainwashed by lobbyists to read this letter. I strongly oppose the U.S. Federal Government setting precedent in support of a known and guilty monopolist. Please insist upon an Open Standard, arrived at by a broad spectrum of those with strong experience in the areas of Preservation of Individual Privacy and Integrity & Security of Data. Do not allow this perceived opportunity to lock the people of the United States of America into a closed standard which has proven non-secure in the past and the goals of the provider so transparent.
Regards, {Insert Your Name Here}
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Just click any one of those 5,000 Orbitz pop windows on your desktop.
So many companies have tried to assist the government in providing services over the Net...
They help in the same way a farmer "helps" a sheep get over a fence.
Yeah I'll take the mod on this one but, ... you GOT to be kidding me.
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
We got morons running whitehouse.. Wasn't it feds who started to sue Microsoft? Why would they want
to legitimize their monopoly now?
We got some serious retards running this country.
Guys, relax. This isn't the end of the world. How about you go outside and enjoy the weather instead of developing conspiracy theories about how Microsoft is going to ruin your life today.
Things have got to come to a head. Eventually the government is going to start passing laws that make people finally stand up and just say no.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
, and whether or not the idea is good to begin with aside, but this is something that the Government should make on their own. If this ever happens, they need to hire programmers and have their own development group for this. This type of information should never be outsourced, especially to a controlling interest in our government's financials. Heck, I would feel uncomfortable if Linus was asked to take part in it (-:
The Microsoft Government Portal explained
World Domination in progress
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I find that very interesting but also a great pointer to whoever stops by to think about this. It only means that MS Passport is unsucessful in its goal, as most of the users (what it seems) were either tricked, forced, made, or strongly suggested (i just say that so i wouldnt get sued :P) that they HAVE to use MS passport.
Would you really want to use a product or a service for National ID that is a flop?
But then again only MS can sell you something that didnt work as a solution.
I would say it'sa perfect analogy to the movie Fight Club: where "women's fat asses were sold back to them" as soap - which was made out of their fat coming from a liposuction clinic.
In theory everybody wins. But what about ethics? Would MS go beyond that and national security issues to push their service into fed throat?
This article is in the seattle times! Redmond's back yard! I wonder how much $M paid to get this article published.
Billy boy probably paid big bucks to get this published just to piss off Orale and Ellison!
I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong
we KNOW that. if you think that makes it 'ok' then please see the subject.
'it's just online privacy! it doesn't matter!'
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
Not MS.
Not the Microsoft Passport.
Microsoft Passport technology.
But only because the very discussion of the idea causes Ellison and McNealy to fall to the ground writhing with convulsions. :)
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Dude, I told you a million times, they asked me to live here. They want me here. I'm doing them a favor, okay. So let's just drop it.
The first guy was right: Check dictionary.com... emigrate Pronunciation Key (m-grt) intr.v. emigrated, emigrating, emigrates To leave one country or region to settle in another. See Usage Note at migrate.
that allow things like the holocaust to happen, i'm not even kidding.
'they're just RELOCATING them, it's not that big of a deal...'
'it's only forced labor..'
'well the place is crowded what would YOU do!?'
jesus christ woman. open your fucking eyes. i swear your five year old probably has a better grasp of the situation than you do.
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
Not necessarily, because the government didn't pay for its development and the deliverable would be the service, not the software.
It could be analogous to Office, which the government is a customer for. The government does not get the Office source code.
Nobody's saying that they want to do e-voting based on Passport, yet, but the services offered/required to use the service will inevitably grow.
And never underestimate the damage that even small changes can do. Change someone's address right before an election and there's a good chance you've disenfranchised them (think Florida). Or another change and you have full participation from the precincts located in the Shady Acres Memorial Park. Use the handy "write your Representative" feature and you can create another bogus grass-root support for protecting Microsoft's right to innovate.
If there's a need for such user authentication, and I think it's worth considering, then it should be handled by exactly one of two organizations. Either the US Postal Service, or the individual states existing voter registration service. Probably the USPS because resident aliens can still use government services even if they can't vote.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
What, you mean this isn't an All Fools' Day joke?
:)
Glad not to be an American at the moment
deus does not exist but if he does
Courtesy of About 420
;-), Homer mentions to
;-), Homer mentions to
Connotative Use/Meaning
420 is a phreak's (and not just a hippie's) favorite number for a
variety of reasons, or maybe for no reason at all, but colloquially
the number says pot -- "let's smoke pot", or "someone's smoking
pot", or "gee, i really like pot", or "time to smoke pot", either by
time (4:20 a.m. or p.m.), date (April 20th), or otherwise (e.g. State
Route 420). April 20th at 4:20 is marked by annual events in
Mount Tamalpais, CA (an informal gathering); Marin Conty, CA
(the 420 Hemp Fest); Ann Arbor, MI (the Hash Bash); and
Washington, D.C. (buildup towards the July 4th Smoke-In).
Original Source(s)
Conventional wisdom: The most common tale is that 420 is the
police radio code or criminal code (and therefore the police "call")
in certain part(s) of California (e.g. in Los Angeles or San
Francisco) for having spotted someone consuming cannabis
publicly, i.e. "pot smoking in progress"; that local cannabis users
picked up on the code and began celebrating the number temporally
(esp. 4:20 a.m., 4:20 p.m., and April 20); that the number became
nationally popularized in the late 1980s and, more ferverently, in
the early- to mid-1990s; and is colloquially applied to a variety of
relaxed and/or inspired contexts, including not only pot
consumption but also a "good time" more generally (in contrast to
the drug war surrounding).
Conventions are legends: 420 is not police radio code for
anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes (including those of
the City of San Francisco, the City of Los Angeles, Los Angeles
County, the State of California, and the federal penal code) suggest
that the origin is neither Californian nor federal (the two best
guesses). For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a
misdemeanor the hindrance of use ("obstructing entry") of public
lands, and California Family Code 420 defines what constitutes a
wedding ceremony (Marco). One state does come close: "The
Illinois Department of Revenue classifies the Alcoholic Liquor Act
under Part 420, and the Cannabis and Controlled Substances Tax
Act are next, under Part 428." (RB 5/19/99)
True story?: "According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times,
the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971,
among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos. The term 420 was shorthand for the
time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis
Pasteur, to smoke pot. ``Waldo Steve,'' a member of the group who
now owns a business in San Francisco, says the Waldos would
salute each other in the school hallway and say ``420 Louis!'' The
term was one of many invented by the group, but it was the one
that caught on. ``It was just a joke, but it came to mean all kinds of
things, like `Do you have any?' or `Do I look stoned?' '' he said.
``Parents and teachers wouldn't know what we were talking about.''
The term took root, and flourished, and spread beyond San Rafael
with the assistance of the Grateful Dead and their dedicated cohort
of pot-smoking fans. The Waldos decided to assert their claim to
the history of the term after decades of watching it spread, mutate
and be appropriated by commercial interests. The Waldos contacted
Hager, and presented him with evidence of 420's history, primarily
a collection of postmarked letters from the early '70s with lots of
mention of 420. They also started a Web site, waldo420.com. ``We
have proof, we were the first,'' Waldo Steve said. ``I mean, it's not
like we wrote a book or invented anything. We just came up with a
phrase. But it's kind of an honor that this emanated from San
Rafael.''" Maria Alicia Gaura for the San Francisco Chronicle,
4/20/00 p. A19; and thanks to Noah Cole for the submission
Alternate explanations
There are a variety of other explanations, all much more interesting
than "police code", and many plausible. Some are more likely uses
of the 420/hemp connection rather than sources of it, such as the
score for the football game in Fast Times at Ridgement High,
42-0.
Known Myths: It isn't police code (see above). There are 315
chemicals in marijuana, not 420. And although tea time in
Amsterdam is rumored to be 4:20, it is actually 5:30 (Gerhard
den Hollander).
Sixties Songs: For instance, Bob Dylan's famous "Rainy Day
Women #12 and 35" is a possible reference, or source --
12x35=420. And Stephen Stills wrote (and Crosby Stills Nash
& Young performed) a song "4+20" (first recorded 7/16/69,
released on Deja Vu 3/11/70) about an 84-year-old
poverty-stricken man who started and finished with nothing.
(Thanks to Sherry Keel 12/6/98.) Dylan aslo mentions "4 and
20 windows" in "The Balland of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest"
(on John Wesley Harding).
Older Verse: But 420 in poetry is older than that - Greg
Keller notes the old nursery rhyme line, "four and twenty
black birds baked in a pie". Revelation 5:14 (in the King
James Version of the Christian Bible) reads, "And the four
beasts said 'A-Men.' And the four and twenty elders fell down
and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever." (Travis
Spurley 2/15/99) And in Midnight's_Children, Salman
Rushdie wrote, "Inevitably, a number of these children failed
to survive. Malnutrition, disease and the misfortunes of
everyday life had accounted for no less than four hundred and
twenty of them by the time I became conscious of their
existence; although it is possible to hypothesize that these
deaths, too, had their purpose, since 420 has been, since time
immemorial, the number associated with fraud, deception and
trickery." (Comet 2/14/98) Comet's "best guess is that this
refers to something in Indian mythology or numerology, since
the book is set in India and frequently involves Indian history,
culture, and religion. Given the high interest in Eastern
religion among the phish/dead community, this seems a likely
origin of 420's current significance."
Temporal Significance: "Hands on analog clock at 4:20 look
like position of doobie dangling from mouth" "Larry in
Tuscan" and Alex Mack 5/19/99). Disruptive students are out
of detention and safetly away from school by 4:20, also
rumored to be "the time that you should dose to be peaking
when the Dead went on stage" Hart. "The Waldos" were a
group of teens back in the 70's that lived in San Rafael, CA.
420 was the way they talked about pot in front of teachers,
non-smoking family members etc. Also it was the time of day
they could just go relax, and get baked." ("PhunkCellar")
Jamaicans purportedly "worked till 4 then walked home then
lit up. They would talk 420 like our parents talked about after
5. That's when partying began" "Larry in Tuscan"). Albert (not
Abbie) Hofmann supposedly first encountered LSD at 4:20
p.m. on 4/19/1943 (Bart Coleman citing Storming Heaven by
Jay Stevens, recommended by Mickey Hart in Planet Drum).
Surrealist painter Miro was born April 20, 1893. And
www.filmspeed.com says the propoganda film Reefer
Madness has a copyright date of April 20, 1936 (i.e. 4/20).
(Patrick Woolford)
Misc: Could be that it comes from hydroponics, the practice
of cultivating plants in water often used by indoor marijuana
cultivators, since 4 is used for H on a calculator (420/H20).
(Nick Lowe 3/30/00) The number 80 (eight) is "quatre vingt"
(pronounced "cah-truh vahn"), meaning "four (times} twenty".
Dan Nijjar 1/27/00 (No connection yet between the number
80 and pot. A quarter pound is roughly 120 grams, rounding
quarter-ounces to 7.5.) The titanic was supposed to arrive
4/20/1912. (Thanks to RB.) Perhaps the heavy use of vt420
terminals in the Berkeley area is to blame? (BTW, 420 in
binary code is 110100100.)
Ubiquitous?
Now there's a 420 Pale Ale. One of the late-97/early-98 "Got
Milk" ads featured a character eating cookies without milk and
then passing a sign that reads "Next Rest Area 420 miles" (as Ross
Bruning). Reportedly, all of the clocks in the movie Pulp Fiction
are stuck on 4:20. Shirts with the number 420 on the red-and-blue
interstate highway shield (Interstate 420?) have show up on the
sitcom Will and Grace (Paul Risenhoover 5/14/99) and in several
videos. UPS' labelling software has a "420 postal code" legend for
next-day/2-day deliveries (which is how Phish tickets are sent).
(Jack Lebowitz 10/3/98) MTV's 1997 Viewer's Choice Award (for
the MTV Video Awards) was decided by calls to
1-800-420-4MTV. And by May of 1998, the number was
appearing in so many ads (eg Copenhagen 5/14/98 Rolling Stone
p54, Corvette p55 5/98 Car & Driver) that its presence is
presumed to be intentional. Many songs are around 4 minutes 20
seconds long (since many songs fall between 2:30 and 5:30),
including for example Pink Floyd's "A Great Day for Freedom" (on
The Division Bell, 1994), the Foo Fighters' "My Hero", and
"Smokin'" from Boston's first album. "There have also been some
420 references on The Simpsons. In the re-run episode aired on
April 20th, 1999 at a special time (probably in honor of those
college students staying in the holiday spirit
Flanders that Barney's birthday is April 20th. Also, the jackpot sign
in one part of the casino says $420,000. There are a couple less
concrete ones, but these two have to be legit, especially since they
decided to air THAT particular episode on 4/20/99." (Submitted by
Matt Meehan 4/21/99) And (as of Fall '99) the 60 free minutes that
Working Assets Long Distance offers, at the 7 cents per minute
rate, is $4.20 free. There's even a band named 420, and another
names . In the first fifteen pages of Karel Capek's novel War with
the Newts, a man diving under wonder stayed down for four
minutes and twenty seconds. Grant Garstka 1/6/00 At the
suggested retail price ($3.96) and Michigan (6%) sales tax, a deck
of Uno cards costs $4.20. Nic Boris 4:20 marks the first downbeat
of the drums in Led Zeppelin's epic "Stairway to Heaven." (Dan
Harris) The bill authorizing force after the World Trade Center
attacks of 9/11/01 passed 420 to 1, and news reports in following
months noted many times that there are (or were then, anyway) 420
airports in the U.S. Allan Morris And don't forget that Adolf Hitler
was born on April 20, macabely "celebrated" (or at least
referenced) via the Columbine High School shootings.
Phish-related Occurances
Whatever the origin, the number appears frequently... For the
summer 1997 tour, TicketMaster service charges were $4.20. In
the Fall 1997 Doniac Schvice Dry Goods section, a limited edition
Pollack poster printed on 100% hemp is order number 420P. The
Great Went was 420 miles from Boston (former home of Phish).
The official logo includes 4 gills and 20 bubbles ("Gringo"
11/12/98). As of 6/15/97, including covers and originals, Phish
had performed a total of 420 songs (thought its 486 by 4/24/98).
(David Steinberg). Lawnboy is 420megs of memory. Patrick
Walker Phish's The Vibration of Life underlies a whirling loop
with Seven Beats per second (which makes 420 beats per minute.)
Trey has used the altered line "woke up at 4:20" in "Makisupa
Policeman", which also often indirectly celebrates 420ing, e.g. by
mention of goo balls. One of the funniest shirts around takes light
jabs at both the 4:20 phenomenon and the rumored evolution
(collapse?) of the Phish.Net (especially rec.music.phish) from
being Gamehendge to Flamehendge, and beyond. The first day of
the Great Went started at 4:20 (with Makisupa Policeman. (The
second day started late, at 4:37.) Noah Cole The first single from
Slip Stitch and Pass was played on WBCN 10/14/97 at 4:20 pm.
An uproar at 12/31/96 can be heard on tape during the 2001, in
response to an enormous digital clock (which was counting down
to midnight) reaching 11:55:40 and reading "-4:20". (Yoda)
During the 9-12-00 2001, Trey hits the first riff right at 4:20 into
the intro jam. (Cal 2/25/01) Some mail order tickets for the 1997
New Year's run were in section 420. The first Mass Pike toll
leaving Oswego was $4.20. (Camille Heath ) And the standard
shipping for The Phish Companion through Amazon was
originally $4.20.
420 Shows: Phish performed on April 20 in 1989, 1990, 1991,
1993, and 1994. The first day of the Great Went started at 4:20,
although that was called a soundcheck by Trey after three songs.
The Jazzfest Harry Hood 4-26-96 started at about 4:20 reported by
Trevor. At Big Cypress, "David Bowie" was playing at 4:20 a.m.
And the one event during the "hiatus" (10/8/00 - ?) featuring all
four members - for Jason Colton's wedding - was 12/1/01, 420
from: http://www.phish.net/faq/n420.html:
Connotative Use/Meaning
420 is a phreak's (and not just a hippie's) favorite number for a
variety of reasons, or maybe for no reason at all, but colloquially
the number says pot -- "let's smoke pot", or "someone's smoking
pot", or "gee, i really like pot", or "time to smoke pot", either by
time (4:20 a.m. or p.m.), date (April 20th), or otherwise (e.g. State
Route 420). April 20th at 4:20 is marked by annual events in
Mount Tamalpais, CA (an informal gathering); Marin Conty, CA
(the 420 Hemp Fest); Ann Arbor, MI (the Hash Bash); and
Washington, D.C. (buildup towards the July 4th Smoke-In).
Original Source(s)
Conventional wisdom: The most common tale is that 420 is the
police radio code or criminal code (and therefore the police "call")
in certain part(s) of California (e.g. in Los Angeles or San
Francisco) for having spotted someone consuming cannabis
publicly, i.e. "pot smoking in progress"; that local cannabis users
picked up on the code and began celebrating the number temporally
(esp. 4:20 a.m., 4:20 p.m., and April 20); that the number became
nationally popularized in the late 1980s and, more ferverently, in
the early- to mid-1990s; and is colloquially applied to a variety of
relaxed and/or inspired contexts, including not only pot
consumption but also a "good time" more generally (in contrast to
the drug war surrounding).
Conventions are legends: 420 is not police radio code for
anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes (including those of
the City of San Francisco, the City of Los Angeles, Los Angeles
County, the State of California, and the federal penal code) suggest
that the origin is neither Californian nor federal (the two best
guesses). For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a
misdemeanor the hindrance of use ("obstructing entry") of public
lands, and California Family Code 420 defines what constitutes a
wedding ceremony (Marco). One state does come close: "The
Illinois Department of Revenue classifies the Alcoholic Liquor Act
under Part 420, and the Cannabis and Controlled Substances Tax
Act are next, under Part 428." (RB 5/19/99)
True story?: "According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times,
the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971,
among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos. The term 420 was shorthand for the
time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis
Pasteur, to smoke pot. ``Waldo Steve,'' a member of the group who
now owns a business in San Francisco, says the Waldos would
salute each other in the school hallway and say ``420 Louis!'' The
term was one of many invented by the group, but it was the one
that caught on. ``It was just a joke, but it came to mean all kinds of
things, like `Do you have any?' or `Do I look stoned?' '' he said.
``Parents and teachers wouldn't know what we were talking about.''
The term took root, and flourished, and spread beyond San Rafael
with the assistance of the Grateful Dead and their dedicated cohort
of pot-smoking fans. The Waldos decided to assert their claim to
the history of the term after decades of watching it spread, mutate
and be appropriated by commercial interests. The Waldos contacted
Hager, and presented him with evidence of 420's history, primarily
a collection of postmarked letters from the early '70s with lots of
mention of 420. They also started a Web site, waldo420.com. ``We
have proof, we were the first,'' Waldo Steve said. ``I mean, it's not
like we wrote a book or invented anything. We just came up with a
phrase. But it's kind of an honor that this emanated from San
Rafael.''" Maria Alicia Gaura for the San Francisco Chronicle,
4/20/00 p. A19; and thanks to Noah Cole for the submission
Alternate explanations
There are a variety of other explanations, all much more interesting
than "police code", and many plausible. Some are more likely uses
of the 420/hemp connection rather than sources of it, such as the
score for the football game in Fast Times at Ridgement High,
42-0.
Known Myths: It isn't police code (see above). There are 315
chemicals in marijuana, not 420. And although tea time in
Amsterdam is rumored to be 4:20, it is actually 5:30 (Gerhard
den Hollander).
Sixties Songs: For instance, Bob Dylan's famous "Rainy Day
Women #12 and 35" is a possible reference, or source --
12x35=420. And Stephen Stills wrote (and Crosby Stills Nash
& Young performed) a song "4+20" (first recorded 7/16/69,
released on Deja Vu 3/11/70) about an 84-year-old
poverty-stricken man who started and finished with nothing.
(Thanks to Sherry Keel 12/6/98.) Dylan aslo mentions "4 and
20 windows" in "The Balland of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest"
(on John Wesley Harding).
Older Verse: But 420 in poetry is older than that - Greg
Keller notes the old nursery rhyme line, "four and twenty
black birds baked in a pie". Revelation 5:14 (in the King
James Version of the Christian Bible) reads, "And the four
beasts said 'A-Men.' And the four and twenty elders fell down
and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever." (Travis
Spurley 2/15/99) And in Midnight's_Children, Salman
Rushdie wrote, "Inevitably, a number of these children failed
to survive. Malnutrition, disease and the misfortunes of
everyday life had accounted for no less than four hundred and
twenty of them by the time I became conscious of their
existence; although it is possible to hypothesize that these
deaths, too, had their purpose, since 420 has been, since time
immemorial, the number associated with fraud, deception and
trickery." (Comet 2/14/98) Comet's "best guess is that this
refers to something in Indian mythology or numerology, since
the book is set in India and frequently involves Indian history,
culture, and religion. Given the high interest in Eastern
religion among the phish/dead community, this seems a likely
origin of 420's current significance."
Temporal Significance: "Hands on analog clock at 4:20 look
like position of doobie dangling from mouth" "Larry in
Tuscan" and Alex Mack 5/19/99). Disruptive students are out
of detention and safetly away from school by 4:20, also
rumored to be "the time that you should dose to be peaking
when the Dead went on stage" Hart. "The Waldos" were a
group of teens back in the 70's that lived in San Rafael, CA.
420 was the way they talked about pot in front of teachers,
non-smoking family members etc. Also it was the time of day
they could just go relax, and get baked." ("PhunkCellar")
Jamaicans purportedly "worked till 4 then walked home then
lit up. They would talk 420 like our parents talked about after
5. That's when partying began" "Larry in Tuscan"). Albert (not
Abbie) Hofmann supposedly first encountered LSD at 4:20
p.m. on 4/19/1943 (Bart Coleman citing Storming Heaven by
Jay Stevens, recommended by Mickey Hart in Planet Drum).
Surrealist painter Miro was born April 20, 1893. And
www.filmspeed.com says the propoganda film Reefer
Madness has a copyright date of April 20, 1936 (i.e. 4/20).
(Patrick Woolford)
Misc: Could be that it comes from hydroponics, the practice
of cultivating plants in water often used by indoor marijuana
cultivators, since 4 is used for H on a calculator (420/H20).
(Nick Lowe 3/30/00) The number 80 (eight) is "quatre vingt"
(pronounced "cah-truh vahn"), meaning "four (times} twenty".
Dan Nijjar 1/27/00 (No connection yet between the number
80 and pot. A quarter pound is roughly 120 grams, rounding
quarter-ounces to 7.5.) The titanic was supposed to arrive
4/20/1912. (Thanks to RB.) Perhaps the heavy use of vt420
terminals in the Berkeley area is to blame? (BTW, 420 in
binary code is 110100100.)
Ubiquitous?
Now there's a 420 Pale Ale. One of the late-97/early-98 "Got
Milk" ads featured a character eating cookies without milk and
then passing a sign that reads "Next Rest Area 420 miles" (as Ross
Bruning). Reportedly, all of the clocks in the movie Pulp Fiction
are stuck on 4:20. Shirts with the number 420 on the red-and-blue
interstate highway shield (Interstate 420?) have show up on the
sitcom Will and Grace (Paul Risenhoover 5/14/99) and in several
videos. UPS' labelling software has a "420 postal code" legend for
next-day/2-day deliveries (which is how Phish tickets are sent).
(Jack Lebowitz 10/3/98) MTV's 1997 Viewer's Choice Award (for
the MTV Video Awards) was decided by calls to
1-800-420-4MTV. And by May of 1998, the number was
appearing in so many ads (eg Copenhagen 5/14/98 Rolling Stone
p54, Corvette p55 5/98 Car & Driver) that its presence is
presumed to be intentional. Many songs are around 4 minutes 20
seconds long (since many songs fall between 2:30 and 5:30),
including for example Pink Floyd's "A Great Day for Freedom" (on
The Division Bell, 1994), the Foo Fighters' "My Hero", and
"Smokin'" from Boston's first album. "There have also been some
420 references on The Simpsons. In the re-run episode aired on
April 20th, 1999 at a special time (probably in honor of those
college students staying in the holiday spirit
Flanders that Barney's birthday is April 20th. Also, the jackpot sign
in one part of the casino says $420,000. There are a couple less
concrete ones, but these two have to be legit, especially since they
decided to air THAT particular episode on 4/20/99." (Submitted by
Matt Meehan 4/21/99) And (as of Fall '99) the 60 free minutes that
Working Assets Long Distance offers, at the 7 cents per minute
rate, is $4.20 free. There's even a band named 420, and another
names . In the first fifteen pages of Karel Capek's novel War with
the Newts, a man diving under wonder stayed down for four
minutes and twenty seconds. Grant Garstka 1/6/00 At the
suggested retail price ($3.96) and Michigan (6%) sales tax, a deck
of Uno cards costs $4.20. Nic Boris 4:20 marks the first downbeat
of the drums in Led Zeppelin's epic "Stairway to Heaven." (Dan
Harris) The bill authorizing force after the World Trade Center
attacks of 9/11/01 passed 420 to 1, and news reports in following
months noted many times that there are (or were then, anyway) 420
airports in the U.S. Allan Morris And don't forget that Adolf Hitler
was born on April 20, macabely "celebrated" (or at least
referenced) via the Columbine High School shootings.
Phish-related Occurances
Whatever the origin, the number appears frequently... For the
summer 1997 tour, TicketMaster service charges were $4.20. In
the Fall 1997 Doniac Schvice Dry Goods section, a limited edition
Pollack poster printed on 100% hemp is order number 420P. The
Great Went was 420 miles from Boston (former home of Phish).
The official logo includes 4 gills and 20 bubbles ("Gringo"
11/12/98). As of 6/15/97, including covers and originals, Phish
had performed a total of 420 songs (thought its 486 by 4/24/98).
(David Steinberg). Lawnboy is 420megs of memory. Patrick
Walker Phish's The Vibration of Life underlies a whirling loop
with Seven Beats per second (which makes 420 beats per minute.)
Trey has used the altered line "woke up at 4:20" in "Makisupa
Policeman", which also often indirectly celebrates 420ing, e.g. by
mention of goo balls. One of the funniest shirts around takes light
jabs at both the 4:20 phenomenon and the rumored evolution
(collapse?) of the Phish.Net (especially rec.music.phish) from
being Gamehendge to Flamehendge, and beyond. The first day of
the Great Went started at 4:20 (with Makisupa Policeman. (The
second day started late, at 4:37.) Noah Cole The first single from
Slip Stitch and Pass was played on WBCN 10/14/97 at 4:20 pm.
An uproar at 12/31/96 can be heard on tape during the 2001, in
response to an enormous digital clock (which was counting down
to midnight) reaching 11:55:40 and reading "-4:20". (Yoda)
During the 9-12-00 2001, Trey hits the first riff right at 4:20 into
the intro jam. (Cal 2/25/01) Some mail order tickets for the 1997
New Year's run were in section 420. The first Mass Pike toll
leaving Oswego was $4.20. (Camille Heath ) And the standard
shipping for The Phish Companion through Amazon was
originally $4.20.
420 Shows: Phish performed on April 20 in 1989, 1990, 1991,
1993, and 1994. The first day of the Great Went started at 4:20,
although that was called a soundcheck by Trey after three songs.
The Jazzfest Harry Hood 4-26-96 started at about 4:20 reported by
Trevor. At Big Cypress, "David Bowie" was playing at 4:20 a.m.
And the one event during the "hiatus" (10/8/00 - ?) featuring all
four members - for Jason Colton's wedding - was 12/1/01, 420
days after the hiatus began. (Todd Pascoe)days after the hiatus began.
(Todd Pascoe)
I guess it will be since that's the only browser I can consistantly make work with Passport.
only 40 miles or so here
seriously though, hopefuly the outcry over this will be loud enough for this fucknut to lose his job, or at least for this idea to be thrown out. even if it goes through it can be turned around... i hope
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
The framers were so concerned with the lack of education on the part of the masses that originally, they set it up that Senators were elected by their state legislatures, and not, in fact, by popular election. It was only after the 17th amendment that Senators came to be elected by popular vote.
That, is also why we have the electoral college. It is the electoral college that directly selects the President. Our presidential votes only determine the makeup of the electoral college. The members of the electoral college could then vote differently than their party affiliations - it is merely loyalty that keeps them in line. Even in losing Florida, Gore could have won the presidential election if only a few electors had changed their votes.
Just think of the ramifications of this! This will cutoff any users that are not using a M$ browser. Why not consider the Liberty Alliance? I would trust their system before I trust M$.
Maybe it's a good idea. In creating this single gov't-wide authentication system the gov't would in effect be creating a new monopoly. So, you want to get a company that has a lot of experience with monopolies, right? Nothing like the voice of experience.
</evil>
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Gee, that sounds like the perfect way to punish someone who abuses their Monopoly power - give them a big contract!
... "Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the w
I want to be able to log on to a website without having to register over and over again. As a consumer I'd have loved it. On the other hand, I don't see why would corporations use Passport. Oh well it was a nice idea. Of course I don't see why the government should use it.
I'd like to be able to use my MS passport on websites like Slashdot, arstechnica, planetunreal, porn sites, etc. but for government websites, it's another story.
boy, its not hard to get anything even remotely anti-microsoft posted on slashdot is it?
I though the apocalypse was supposed to have horses... not stupid ADs armed with power.
But getting the United States to use Passport to authenticate its 285 million citizens online would be a coup for the Redmond software company. It would also be a large step toward fulfilling Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates' stated goal of getting everyone on the Internet to use Passport as their sign-on tool.
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
ha ha very funny guys, April fools is over already, quit posting jokes.
What do you mean your serious?
To everyone saying they would move to Canada if this happens they are full of BS. You wont do anything. If you are gonna respond to this just write your representative or stop complaining. ME? I could care less if MS and the Govt get in together on this.
Well this gives a whole new meaning to Microsoft tax.
Although it would give very good arguements towards patent free royalty free standards.
Gives a whole new potential meaning to the phrase, "Microsoft Tax", doesn't it?
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
The Microsoft Government Portal explained
. . . and now with some simple hacking, a script kiddie can perform a coup d'etat!
im g30rg3 b|_|s#! r34d m4 l1pz!
adios... really! We'll... miss... your valuable contribution. Bye!
Sorry if someone else posted this already.
/.'ing
If you trust the source, this page contains Mr. Forman's contact info.
Also mirrored below in case of
CIO Council
Chair, Acting
Mr. Mark Forman
OMB
725 17th Street, NW
Room 349, Eisenhower Exec. Office Bldg.
Washington, DC 20503
mforman@omb.eop.gov
Phone: 202-395-1095 / Fax: 202-395-4995
(posting AC b/c yes, I am just a little paranoid.)
Will it let me in to other countries, or will I need it to get back into the UM. S?
Considering that I never EVER plan to have a Passport account, I guess I won't ever be able to use the gov't's online services if they go with this. That's OK though. One more reason to move to Amsterdam. I hear they even have freedom of speech over there ....
But what really gets me is the fact that they are considering this even though they've already determined that A) Microsoft is a monopoly, and what could further their monopoly more than having the personal info of EVERY SINGLE US CITIZEN (with internet access that is), and B) Haven't we figured out that M$ wouldn't know security if it came up and bit them on their collective ass?
This world is scary. Pass the popcorn.
People thought the DMCA would never happen...
A lot of things that "couldn't possibly happen" have.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Why america seams more like a fascist state each day that passes?
Sometimes it even make me remember nazi tactics!
(not that mussolini ones wheren't bad enought!)
Good luck! you will need it...
Yes, please e-mail them if you want your opinion to be ignored.
It's been said time and again on Slashdot - if you want to be taken seriously, send a letter. If you don't, why are you bothering with the e-mail?
According to http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/memoranda/m01-28.htm l
Mark Forman can be reached at 202-395-1148.
Now Big Brother will have an even bigger brother
Visit my website: www.compugeeksonline.com
Again, MS-Passport cannot be made secure even in theory. There are fatal errors in MS's implementation in additional to the fundamental problems with the basic idea.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Microsoft Passport is the mark of the beast!!!
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18)
Here is the calculation:
i keep reading comments saying that the article says "passport technology" not "microsoft passport." they are the same thing. when is the last time you remember microsoft liscensing technology to someone to make their own product? it won't happen.
.Net. if they use what they have to leverage it in, they can dominate yet another segment (now java-space).
i do hear microsoft talk about windows technology and such. this doesn't mean they are making it easier for people to duplicate windows. this means that they consider the software to be a technology. if they make it sound impressive by calling it technology, people are more likely to buy it.
microsoft has not ever created a 'technology' without the intent of using it to control/dominate sales of their own products. yes, this even applies to
don't worry...it's an opinion (it's a fact).
you probably shouldn't have read this.
I just happen to have a house for sale in The Netherlands ;-)
---
if the feds do use this system, I am sure MS will not have access to the information. it will most likly be used in the way tha large corperations would use it. the information will be on servers owned by the feds, and controled by the feds. I just hope that the Passport servers reside behind 2 or 3 openBSD firewalls.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I just bought some MSFT shares with last year's IRA money. Pretty good stock. Almost $8 a share in cash and good growth prospects ahead.
then not only would our government propose we use the Microsoft Passport as our National ID, but we would have used the CIA and other 'black budget' agencies to assist in a coup attempt in a South American country this week.
... since it's obviously only those of us with money who get to make the decisions for this country ...
... company ... heiritsu ...
Oh. Wait. We did.
Darn, I knew I should have voted on that MSFT shareholder resolution
I regret that I have but one FTE to give for my country
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Reading without thinking is moronic.
...
What's the next step after requiring Passport for online services? Duhh, requiring online services. Duhh, next step, duhh, like, you HAVE to use Passport or you go to jail for not paying income taxes, not paying property taxes, not reporting for jury duty, not registering for the draft, not paying speediing tickets,
Next time, try THINKING about what you have allegedly read. Or, wait a minute, I get it. You said your five year old has better reaidng skills, not you. I get it! You didn't read it, did you? You are basing your complaint on what your five year old said! Duhh, joke's on me!
Infuriate left and right
Of course, the big minus will be if the government goes with Microsoft software. Does the government really want this buggy nightmare of constant security problems? Hope not.
On the bright side, technology like this could prove very useful for expanding civic participation (that is, more direct democracy) in the forming of public policy. A while back, there was a failed effort in California (site no longer exists, sorry) to provide for online signature of citizen-sponsored ballot initiative petitions. Passport-like technology would aid immensely in people participating in the initiative process. Further, this technology could prove useful in the creation of committees of concerned citizens to develop public policy together using the Internet as a catalyst (of course, with offline meetings always being an option).
As much power as Passport-like technology gives to the "big, bad government," it also can give ordinary citizens a lot more power as well.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
This is coming from a person who A) Generally recommends Microsoft solutions (objectively, not religously) and B) believes that Passport.NET will eventually be secure once it matures, I think that this is a Very Bad Thing(tm). I normally debunk MS FUD and Conspiracy Theories, but I just have to ask, "who got what favors for this ludicrous idea?"
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Presto!
Revelations 13:
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Not that I'm religious or anything. I think it's kinda cute, though...
because Microsoft's Passport server has been disabled by a virus that exploited a known vulnerablity in IE, Office, IIS, and XP. The Government has alerted MS about the potential problems 6 months ago, but apparently no actions have taken place. Due to the recently passed bill (lobbied by MS) that does not hold software companies liable for damages, and the contract with M$, the US government cannot discontinue use of passport authentication.
--We are also aware that known terrorist groups are behind the virus/hacking, and now have personal data for all our citizens. God Bless America!!!!
$cat
OK, let's assume that we do want access to government services online. Taxation, benefits, voting even. I want that. That's going to require fairly robust identity validation. Note: fairly. Right now, it's absolutely trivial to scam the benefits system, or to steal someone else's vote if you really care enough to do it. An online solution only needs to be as good as the ones we've already got, which (let's face it) aren't that great.
Further, while I'm as cynical as the next guy (if the next guy is a bitter, twisted conspiracy freak), I really doubt if any company is going to be able to buy this contract without providing a genuine solution, and most importantly, a credible promise of long term support. Not the best solution, or the cheapest solution, but a reliable solution.
So, who does that leave? Oracle, most likely. Microsoft are actually the wild card outsiders. IBM, maybe. Sun at a stretch.
Can you think of anyone else? Note that we're not talking about a development house, we're talking about a solution provider with a track record (even if it's a criminal track record) and thousands of techies available to patch and nurse the system for years ahead.
If we want the online services (and I do), we're going to have to accept that it will be a big Dark Side company that's running them.
So I suggest that in this case you don't go off at half cock writing to your elected representatives (I use both words loosely) demanding that Microsoft not be given this contract. At least not unless you can suggest a credible alternative. Perhaps the most productive thing you can do is to try and sell her on championing legislation to ensure transparency and openness in the running of the system, and most importantly, ensure that it's universally accessible, that the information is actually held in confidence, and that it's not mandatory.
I'm tempted to suggest that it follow the pattern of recent bill and be called the "Enduring Patriotic Freedom of Just Federal Freenessness Bill", that would be reverting to cynical type. So I won't. ;-)
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
GOTCHA!
shitdot, you lying scums.
passport is not being used as a national identity card or anything like that. they're considering using it as a way for people to get services online from gov't agencies.
as usual, take your finger out of your ass before typing these posts. you might make less mistakes if you used both hands.
Perhaps it's time to start random drug testing at the White House Staff. Because SOMEONE is clearly smoking something.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
The Mark of the Beast administered by The Beast itself!
My only question is will this authentication method be Windows specific or will it allow people with alternative operating systems access as well?
This spam is your spam,
This spam is my spam,
From New York harbor,
To Taiwan's island.
From per seat licensing,
to software pushes,
Blue screens of death for you and me.
- His Billdom
Mark Forman? Or is a typo? Should it be Mark Furman? This must be some big coverup conspiracy........
If I recall correctly, laws cannect be passed to benefit only one person or company. (although there are ways around this by clever wording)
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Do you want to remove linux?
Goodbye America, It's been nice knowing you.
I cannot help drawing parrallels between this and the National Socialists, in German using IBM equipment used to manage the census, in the runup to the final solution during WW2.
The direction the US is moving is starting to get really scary from the outside.
Nope. Because if they let people look at the code, that will surely act as a "Gogogo!" sign for hackers to break in, steal your ID and end the world as we know it.
Yes, I am kidding. No, it still won't happen.
Whose idea was it to even TALK to convicted criminals (Microsoft Corp.) to even THINK about using their unfair practices to ID us all? This is about the most insane thing i've ever heard! Lets let Johnny the crack dealer run the FBI when he gets out of jail! That's just as silly! WTF is going on? The gov KNOWS Microsoft is a criminal company that is very close to being totally split in half and tore down for being a monopoly, right?? Wtf?!
Well, IANAL, but I play one on TV, so I decided to chase down some links, and it seems . . . ambiguous.
According to Title 17 Chapter 1, section 105,
Copyright protection under this title is not available for any work of the United States Government, but the United States Government is not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or otherwise.
But then it links to some footnotes that seem to suggest that while the US Government can own copyrights, the copyrighted material must be freely distributed to the public. So, that would still be something like open source.
I appreciate the notion that simply because a work is derivative --in this case of federal information, people's identities-- that quality of being derivative doesn't mean the work cannot still qualify for copyright protection itself. An analogy could be made to a song made up of samples. However as the samples are goverment information, I think the Freedom of Information Act would make it very difficult to keep the project as closed source.
What can I say. This really doesn't look good. How blind persons can be. Good bye.
Just when you think GW can't do anything more stupid...*sigh*. Anyone in favour of founding an independent state for geeks?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Why would this not be a good thing? With all MS bashing aside. The gov't could tell MS that "yes we will use your passport if:"
1. It is open source to meet security standards.
2. The tecnology can be used from any platform.
3. Security is first priority.
Setting a standard could be good for all of us. I would not mind having a set user identification system, user privacy issues aside, for ecommerce reasons.
April fool's day was WEEKS ago, why are they still continuing this joke?
-- Bandit450...If-Else-Do-*TWITCH*!
Forget "privacy" as an argument against this nonsense -- we already know that won't cut it in the current political climate.
A better way would be to invoke the Americans With Disabilities act, specifically the clauses regarding equal access and accessability. And then get the ACLU or some other such civil liberties or disabled-rights outfits involved.
I think a good case could be made (that would hold up in court even against the current trends) that using Passport is prejudicial against underprivileged minorites (who can't afford the latest in computer gadgetry to go online with) and more politically cloutful, is prejudicial against people with disabilities whose screen readers or whatever can't access Passport-encrusted sites.
You can get damnear ANYTHING passed, or prohibited, if you get disabled-rights groups involved on your side. They have money and lobbying clout, and no one in public office wants to be perceived as being mean to poverty-stricken disabled children.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
So that means that I'm now going to have to have swineakin@hotmail.com tatooed across my forhead? Why oh why didn't I pick a cooler name like 7337 hax0r?
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
It's not going to happen. How many big corporations have big lobbiest at DC? Do you really think other tech companies are going to stand by and just let that happen? People have been trying to get every branch of the government to use exactly the same systems for a long time. Guess what? It hasn't happened, nor will it. There's way too much politics for it to happen. You think all the other top administrators of each division/branch/office is going to just switch? They're taking kick backs too, so I doubt it's gonna happen. There are too many hands in every pocket for there to be just one hand in all pockets.
The IRS released today an outline of its plans to have all income tax audits performed by Arthur Andersen.
That doesn't count as a conviction? Why not?
--Charlie
I could submit my taxes using messenger.
Microsoft has also successfully convinced DBU, the largest Danish Ballgames Association to enroll with passport.
.NET was beyond words, as it didn't work...
My worst/best guess is that since DBU will place info-kiosks around the country's clubs, they hope to get people to sign up in order to get better services from their clubs.
The DBU CIO's comment when questioned was "We feel very confident in leaning towards Microsoft as the biggest and most trustworthy corporation who surely have the skills to provide us with the best solution available" - my personal thoughts when I couldn't access their website build on
Good work MS, get 'em while they are young.
Scary it is.. My first thought when reading about the US initiative was that hey, Americans can seek refugee citizenship in Denmark.. but then I looked at our own story and now I wonder, where shall I flee to, when will there be nowhere left for me to flee to. Guess it is time to enter the battle more directly.
I'm disgusted.
Better play some pink floyd.
Hey Dad.. what happened?
that everyone uses, we_the_people@hotmail.com
It's about control over information, folks!
This will be the end of the U.S. federal government as we know it, and the Terrorists will have had nothing to do with it!
How can they be so naive?!? What did their mothers tell them about strangers in dark alleys?!? Do these people send money to every telemarketing scam they encounter?!?
This idea is so damn stupid that, if it goes through, I'll seriously have to reconsider the value of my citizenship! I really, really do not want to have to do that! I don't want to have to give up the Constitution and everything it stands for! Not over this!!!
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Wasn't that Whitehouse blowhard formerly in charge of security at Microsoft? Talk about qualifications.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The "national ID" talk is irresponsible - given that we just passed the 50% point on who has net access in the US. It's just as useless as using Driver Licenses. Please
.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I'll put my 2nd amendment right to use before I let this happen....
In brief, I work on a project in Canada, which is meant to do just what this article is suggesting. If anyone is interested in the project, you can find the press release on it at. http://www.bceemergis.com/en/newsroom/press_releas es/2001/june6.asp
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
Dont move away from the problem. Face it! Your government is becoming a threat to the security and stability of citizens of this planet. So it must be destroyed. How do you do this? Maybe Civil War II is the answer.
Slashdoters: Any suggestions on how to finish with the the United States as a country?
Revelation 13:16
16 And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.
The above is not worth reading.
Version 1 is up right now, and acts as an advanced online address book that's free of advertising, hence it's fee based. Most importantly though, we're very concerned about privacy, and have no plans to sell out to another corporation that may infringe our privacy guidelines.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
No, because they are also considering Arthur Anderson as a replacement for the Office of Management and Budget :)
Sigs are for people who started using the net _after_ '86.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Secondly - Learn to read. I said it was -stupid-. I said it was a bad idea. I just ALSO happened to say that people were NOT reading the article properly.
You do realize where you are at right? This is slashdot. The land where everyone knows everything without reading a word and everyone who opposes you is a nazi.
Having said that, I agree with you.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
First thing I did when I saw this story was check that it wasn't somehow April 1st again...
Ceci n'est pas une sig
Does my Passport ID number start with "666", and do I have to tattoo it on my forehead and hand?
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Does that mean I become a US citizen if I sigh up for MSN?
---
This
this is double plus ungood
The Official Word on the Federal Enterprise Architecture is written in the proprietary .doc formatr ise%5Far ch%5Fguide%5FFeb%5F2001%2Ehtml
http://www.cio.gov/Documents/fed%5Fenterp
aka HDF (the horrible document format)
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hdf/index.html
Oh, believe me, I'm well aware.
But something has to keep me awake during long streches of nothing to do at work.
http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3357354385
Pay your taxes with PAPER forms, after throwing away the computer-generated label.
I avoid using any online government services, because I want all government transactions to be as costly and wasteful as possible.
It seems like 90% of the people on /. fear that M$ is about to insert a chip into our heads and control the world.
I think maybe we should be a little more subjective. I am assuming that some of us are adults and we have better things to do than wait for a post that involves M$ so that we can try to post the most offensive comments toward this company.
I agree that they have made business decisions in the past (and present) that might be unethical but that doesn't give us the right to not read the article from the post. Because then we might realize that they are not always trying to take over the world. I can handle browsing government sites using passport if I must. Microsoft makes products, goverment buys products. Doesn't seem so bad to me.
So, the ultimate PHB is visited by the MS sales team. "You too can have all these colorful, clickable icons that will make you think you are so high-tech..."
government's purchases of $100 billion worth of technology this year and next
lol Sure that'll be enough?
But getting the United States to use Passport to authenticate its 285 million citizens online would be a coup for the Redmond software company.
Gee, you think?
It would also be a large step toward fulfilling Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates' stated goal of getting everyone on the Internet to use Passport as their sign-on tool.
So that's his stated goal? Interesting. And I suppose we're all just expected to fall into line because Bill has a goal. BZZZT. Thanks for playing! We have some lovely parting gifts..
It now acknowledges that Passport will co-exist with other tools.
Not if 285M people are required to have it.
Microsoft says it has 200 million people registered to use Passport, most of whom signed up because Microsoft told them it was needed to use other Microsoft services, such as its free Hotmail e-mail service or Windows XP operating system.
"I'll take Monopolies for $200, Alex"
"The answer is..."
Once you start vouching for identity, that makes you liable for fraud, that makes you liable for identity theft
Oh, I'm sure they'll find a way around that.
This is absolutely wrong. The Government should not involve a private company in this kind of role, ever. This is no different than the commercially-operated intersection cameras where a private company has a financial interest in the number of tickets issued.
And with ol' Billy standing between the citizenry and the ballot box? Come on... they can't possibly be serious.
Do you oppose a national ID (which really isn't what this is)?
Do you oppose the govenment making private information, such as tax info available to people through the internet?
Do you oppose the use of a outside (non-government) authentication system?
Do you oppose an authentication system which doesn't have a proven track record of good security and prompt effective responses to security issues?
Do you oppose Microsoft being the provider of the system.
Or all of the above?
Try not to be overly vague in what you write to your Congressmen. They often have little grasp of technical issues, and likley get vague complaints about just about everything the government does. You don't want to confuse them with too much detail, but you need to tell them what you don't like, and why. Alternate solutions might even be helpful.
What a sad, sad idea.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
If anything cries out for this, a national ID system is it.
I'd even sucumb to PassPort ifandONLYif M$ is required to divulge EVERY last detail about it.
If they want to 'develop' it for normal contracting fees, fine. but once it's done, it is property of US Gov't and NOT Bill's.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
Exactly how does the fact the government *might* use MS Passport on some of it's websites equate to MS Passport becoming the national ID??
/. has stooped to a new low in it's sensationalistic headlines.
The more legally binding information that we contribute, and that is shared between Government entities, the more secure the technology is going to have to be. The big problem here is that if one monkey can make it, there's a thousand monkeys waiting to break it.
Using technology that facilitates rapid information access means that it's much harder to control access to that information once it's made available. Security starts with physical security, and as an army of exploit monkeys can probably attest to...Government security on databases flat out stinks.
Sometimes technology creates more problems than it solves. There's a security in descrete physical objects. There is no such security for packets and protocols across the internet. Wrap it in anything you like, and if someone wants it, they can easily snapshot it for dissection at their convienience...most hacks of any significance occur by means of insider information or by the actions of people working for companies. The monkey-boy factor isn't going away any time soon. Even in the more restrictive governments and industry there are always the few who will ply their position with interested parties outside the workplace for gratis.
This whole fiasco about needing "national ID's" is nothing more than alarmists and apologists trying to make up for the fact that the institutions that were in place simply failed...and there's nothing a national ID card would have prevented. There's more dammage done by complacency than anyone would have the stomach or years to document and distribute. A "national" ID system will just make it easier to ride-herd on the tax-paying cattle. It won't stop the poachers, it won't stop the mules with condoms of heroin in their bodies, it won't stop people with C-4 in their underwear. In short, it's just another turn of the ratchet on the citizenry...as if we need an even more efficient boot stepping on our faces.
If our government needs better "Hollerith" machines in order to fleece us, so be it. The bills will be passed by the ranch-hands in some eleventh-hour joy-fest, complete with the obligatory sacrifice of whatever rights are required in order to make government and business happy.
The government doesn't like competition. Microsoft doesn't like competition either. So nobody here should be too surprised if Microsoft doesn't want to start courting the government (multiple levels of courtship all over the damn place) in order to co-opt itself into the kind of resource monopoly position that keeps both Microsoft and the government happy...you know, the kind of relationship that other monopolies share with government...like Electricity and Water, and Natural-Gas companies. Once that happens, then competition for Microsoft dissapears on many levels, and a mutual interest is served.
If you can't beat something using the law, then it's necessary to become the law. If you need an example of this, just look to the Council of Nicea, where the Roman Catholoic franchise and mythology were formalized in order to keep the people happy and keep the government stable. What we should be worried about is a repeat of that precedent, where open-source becomes criminal, where file-sharing is persecuted the same way drugs are, and where everyone pays a M$ tax and upgrades their hardware and software on demand by government edict or faces criminal charges.
Every new form of media has it's own Requirimento
Nah, just elect him mayor of some insignificant city near Baltimore :-)
Seriously though... I don't need to preach to the choir about how bad of an idea this is. The hax0r will soon be extinct since skill will no longer be necessary. Identity theft will now be only a back button away!
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
Thanks to the moron sending anthrax-laced letters, snail mail is pretty much ignored by politicians.
The real problem isn't that Microsoft is the one that is being discussed that bothers me. If it works, great. What bothers me, however, and I believe this goes for many people out there, is the fact that Passport, which Hotmail uses, is so often hacked, and easily broken into. So far, whenever I hear about a new security loophole in Hotmail, it usually took someone under an hour of looking (usually not very hard either) to locate and exploit.
If the public at large, can create a new way, either from scratch, or based off of another existing technology, Passport for example, or else the Liberty Alliance's idea, (Sun, AOL, etc....) then we've got one. Whatever it is, it should be in the public domain, or owned by the government, NOT licensed from any company. If I remember correctly, the Liberty Alliance's technology will be open to anyone, at use without any cost, besides signing up with the system. To use Passport, you have to be a Microsoft Affiliate, and/or pay royalties to use it.
Overall, I think a group should be set up, maybe by W3C (http://www.org), or at least tied in through them, so that no one company profits from this, and ties the government into such a system.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Register your dog for the service, and your cat, and your goldfish, and the squirrels outside the window.
This is a national id run by Microsoft. I don't want to be a citizen of the empire of Microsoft.
And you know they're probably allready pimping it to EU countries and elsewhere. I'm sure China is very interested in this technology. With this, who needs biometrics, they can just do it cheaply and barcode the pesants at birth.
Be Very Afraid
Microsoft Passport requires the use of serveral proprietary technologies that may not be available to all people who use computers connected to the internet. Passport does not work with these popular web browsers:
Netscape Navigator, Opera, Mozilla, iCab, Konquerer, or Lynx. It only works with Internet Explorer, a product made by Microsoft and only works on certain computer operating systems.
Is it really true that passport only works with IE? I find that hard to believe. If it's true it would be in my opinion Microsoft's most blatant Monopoly abuse to date. It would also mean that a bunch of Compuserve and AOL customers are going to have trouble using it very soon. Can anyone who uses those browsers confirm this?
Way to not get taken down from the /. effect. It seems like every story this week has been /.ed inside of 15 minutes.
well the end has started then!
from a somwhat religous site, it seems an appropriate quote!
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six." (Revelation 13:16-18 - Author's Version 1611AV)
site URL: http://members.aol.com/RichClark7/rev/six3six.htm
It told junkies not to buy cocaine, because the money would get to the CIA, which was involved with overthrowing the democratic govt. of [insert country here]. (See any books by Chomsky (apart from the techie ones) for details).
Personally I think that form of income would be very minor in comparison to their tax revenues... :-)
The idea of Microsoft at the head of the chain in national authentication is quite scary. Rather, I suggest a radical turn in this area to avoid corporate rule. What if an open source authentication system was really used? Think about it. There are MILLIONS of talented geeks/programmers in the world. Why not turn them loose to develop on/contribute to an open source project that fits their employer's need for a solution. Rather than software companies existing, the market becomes a place where programmers are paid to contribute to the globally available too that a corporation uses? Oh perhaps a new license that requires a organization (profit or non-profit) to have at least n members (based on organization size) contributing toward open source projects in order to be able to use the software? Granted, that would be hard to enforce, but think of the potential if it was. Food for thought :)
But will implement your product on a national level, and trust you not to abuse it.
right... what ever... hand me the crack pipe...
Larry Edison has to be having a fit on hearing this, more so because he has offered up Oracle products for this purpose for free.
n.
Philosophy. The theory that sensation is the only source of knowledge.
The ethical doctrine that feeling is the only criterion of good.
sensationalist n.
sensationalistic adj.
Welcome to the United states of Microsoft.. Where do you.... **ERROR*** GPF in Line 4823890523
....decide if CIO is for Chief Idiot or Ignorant Officer.....
It's called a civil trial, rocket surgeon.
Damn, ever since someone else mentioned that the flag /. uses for this topic only has 12 stripes, it has really started to bother me. Fix it! Please!
Those Canadian chicks can be real hot, been there, done them.
err.. God save America
hahah you are all in deep shit
Wow! MS is handing us the keys to the entire estate! Think about it: Just about anyone here can hack passport. Just imagine the power of a million hackers unleashed on a National Identiy card. It'd be great: popup porn windows on ATM machines, Bill Gates getting deported, Linus Torvalds becoming president(hey, if we say he was born a citizen who's to argue? The ID verified it. Didn't it? *snicker*). Yeah, I can't wait.
Maybe if you're a pinko commie. But in America, we even have laws that are copyrighted. That's right. There are laws that you can't even publish on a web site without a license. God bless us every one.
Devon
I'll register with MS Passport when they pry my Springfield M-1 Main Battle Rifle out of my cold, dead hands.
CIVIL SERVICE COMPUTER SPECIALIST
p ra ctices%5Farticle%2Ehtml
RECRUITMENT BONUS MATRIX
The following qualifies for a bonus of up to 25% of salary
BS/BA Degree plus Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)
With a major in the field of Computer Science, Computer Information Systems, Telecommunications, Data Processing
OR
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert (CCIE)
The following qualifies for a bonus of up to 20% of salary
BS/BA Degree plus Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
With a minor in the field of Computer Science, Computer Information Systems, Telecommunications, Data Processing
OR
AAS Degree plus Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
Equivalent in the field of Computer Science, Computer Information Systems, Telecommunications, Data Processing
OR
Technical Certificate plus Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
Certificate of completion from any accredited Technical School (military or commercial if in related fields)
http://cio.gov/Documents/dept%5Fstate%5Fbest%5F
Didn't White House hire some top level security specialist from Micro$oft?
Oh, sorry. I guess the fact that I'm posting as an AC means that my point must be worthless.
God forbid you would actually post those links if for no other reason than to educate the other
Wait, wait -- at first I'm "ignorant" for shooting holes into a crackpot post, but then you turn around and concede that I might be right?
Huh?
Post your links to some reputable sources -- if you even have a single one. I'm reading, as are quite a few other folks, and they don't care who the hell I am.
Now's your chance to spread the truth. Are you up to it?
More likely the US is using Microsoft as leverage in its negotiations with Oracle (to create the inevitable national ID database). http://slashdot.org/articles/02/04/13/1551248.shtm l
(stolen and modified:)
One passport to rule them all...
One passport to find them...
One passport to bring them all...
And to the network bind them...
In the land of Redmond, where the shadows lie...
Sauron is a wimp compared to e-government. =)
Read my post further up... as I said, they were found guilty in court of law of harming someone through their business practices. Willfully doing so, I might add, in an illegal way. Though not a "criminal" from a technical standpoint(I think), any one of us that did the same would not be given such a responsibility without having proven ourselves trustworthy since then. And Microsoft hasn't.
- Free tabletop fantasy gaming! Grey Lotus
Mandarins. Change your enemy from the inside.
If that is so, then it's a little better. All I'm saying is that this has the potential to be given wholly to Microsoft, and that's a bad idea. I don't think anyone can effectively argue that it's a good idea, whether you like Microsoft or not.
- Free tabletop fantasy gaming! Grey Lotus
A paper by Kormann and Rubin at Bell Labs discusses most of these attack scenarios. K&R are not anti-Microsoft - they are researchers that raise valid technical concerns. There is also a (weak) rebuttal by Microsoft, which misses many of the points of the Kormann Rubin paper.
Also, what happened to the ACES project, where they were going to issue digital certificates to citizens for precisely this purpose?
Despite your feelings about Microsoft, their Passport product is a bad implementation. It is cookie-based, and is trying to use cookies for a purpose they were never intended to fulfill.
Please examine these references, and include mention of them in your letters to congressfolk:
Kormann and Rubin paper: http://avirubin.com/passport.html= 1033
Microsoft Rebuttal: http://www.passport.com/Press/RubinKormann.asp?lc
ACES: http://www.digsigtrust.com/federal/aces.html
Please be informed. This is really bad on a lot of levels.
Why is the current system of ID by social security number (or taxpayer ID for business and non-citizens) not adequate for accessing online services? It seems to be working OK for Education's direct student loan system, and for the IRS.
no need for apologies. if i'm wrong i guess that's just how it goes. (it's a fact that this is my opinion)
the only way i could see this being beneficial to MS in the long run is if MS gets some sort of residual income. it just doesn't seem like it fits their business model to sell something as a one time payment that does not lead to some sort of ongoing charge for products or services.
all of the examples you give lead to other revenue sources, or are support for those revenue sources. i doubt that when MS liscensed source to DOS, they were hoping to help port anything to the latest version of solaris or macOS. They wanted to make it easier to use Windows. (which is logical, since that is what they sell.) networking protocols, printer drivers, file systems, etc all help ensure the use of an MS platform for these activities (can't use a Windows box for printing if you don't have the drivers).
to more accurately say what i meant before...
i find it highly implausible that MS would be willing to sell a package of that size without some promise of future income or control. i also believe MS would be counting on feature creep if this took off so that more than just the government would become dependent on passport.
but you never know. it could just be that i'm very suspicious of microsoft, but that all they want to do is make customers happy, even when the customers are large governments.
you probably shouldn't have read this.
Looks like Larry Ellison and Bill Gates are going to duke it out to be known as the Antichrist, or at least the facilitator of the Antichrist...not that I read the Bible or anything.
i didn't call her a nazi you dumb pile of shit, i said her (and your) dismissive attitude is what allows stuff ranging from annoying to awful to happen.
she's obviously just karmawhoring. i felt like flaming her for it. every thread has people reacting without reading articles. that's a given. posting chastising people for it is like going to a tractor pull and telling people they don't bathe enough.
you're both dolts.
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
repeat after me:
I hate M$
I hate M$
I hate M$
Keeping this kind of privacy-authentication information in a way to create a "single point of failure" is bad enough.
Using Microsoft's technology for this given their well-known total incompetence in the area of computer security to collect and secure information ON BEHALF OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is so far beyond 'bad business decision' that I am not writing this for your benefit, you're either a clueless fuckhead or a Micro$hit employee.
I'm writing this to clarify what's at stake here to slashdotters with working brains.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Congratulations, Pavlov, the dogs have barked. Your expirement was a success.
http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3357354385
This is almost successfully completed with the common use of the Social Security Number required for activities totally unrelated to the original purpose (for example, insurance- and medical transactions).
If a personalized key is used, it's purpose should be restricted to a narrow dedicated purpose and all other uses forbidden.
With increasing computer power and ever more personal information entered into computer systems - SS# and biometric information on drivers licenses, image recognition and DNS profiling open the doors to abuse.
- Refuse to give out your SS# - write complaints, if you are unreasonably forced to do so (for example to obtain car insurance or telephone service).
- Resist every attempt to create a centralized key which is not tightly restricted to a particluar purpose.
shouldn't they wait until AFTER they decide whether or not to punish them for monopolistic practices, i am for microsoft, but they should not even be considered until after their punishment, since they could use it to avoid a breakup.
The Truth: There is no string:)
...Homer Simpson! that's who I've registered as. Wonder how many other Homers there are out there?
You're using her as bait, Master!
This is just a ploy to boost up the airline industry. Im personaly going to buy some US airway stock and watch it skyrocket as millions of people start buying tickets to leave the country.
--aiee
The US government should wake the hell up, and the Seattle Times should at least give lip service to the most secure and by far most proven solution for securing user identity on the Net. So what if Passport authenticates 200 million people to HotMail???
r s0 2.html
Novell eDirectory authenticates nearly 300 million unique users worldwide, on corporate networks, across the Internet, from any platform or end device, anytime...and ya, just about anywhere. What's more these 300mm users are accessing a f*** of a lot more than e-mail. eDirectory supports all types of software via open standards like LDAP, XML and Java, not just MS.
http://www.networkmagazine.com/static/POY/winne
the realjohnnydap
~ its the end of the world as we know it ~
take your pick.
Beer, now there's a temporary solution -- Homer Jay S.
And, what of the anti-trust case? We try to punish them for a monopoly and then pull shit like this? Damn, damn, damn.
Maybe this will push the open ID systems (such as those proposed for GNU.Net) to get completed and agreed upon alot sooner. I wouldn't mind it so much with an open standard. I'd love to uncheck the US Government as able to retrive my phone number.
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
Just another example that the gov't is behind all national troubles...
Will the ID's be able to spread virii like outlook?
I sure hope so!!
Why can't standard x.509 certificates be used instead of passport service?
/babblingOff
The system could be rather simple, the government could issue many licenses to issue certificates (eg banks, dmv offices, perhaps Verisign, Thawte, and all those other CA's). The user is authenticated, the certificate, perhaps, provides some basic info such as name, address whatever....and all the other information comes off of some local departmental database (dmv has database, irs has separate database) it would work great.
On top of that, the user doesn't even have to have his certificate on his or her comp. Look at Hushmail. They have your private key symmetrically encrypted and stored on their server. When you use your email you download the private key, unencrypt it with your password and then do all of the fun PKI stuff with your private key....
Okay
... isn't one of the greatest accomplishments
of modern times
the separation of Church and State ?
Toon Moene.
...of any sort of "centralization" of information on American citizens of any type. I don't like .net for this reason and have no plans to join it, and on a smaller scale M$'s Product Activation is the sole element of WinXP which I think is so blatently bad that it mars the otherwise excellent work the company has done with the XP version of the OS.
Let me also add that with the aid of Zone Alarm Pro I am also seeing a wide variety M$ software attempting access the Internet with no rhyme or reason--such as, most recently, I've noticed that if I attempt to block M$ Backup from accessing the 'net prior to doing a back up--the program will freeze and I am unable to complete my local backup. Why is my XP BACKUP program trying to access the 'net? Hopefully, someone here will know and can relieve me with an innocuous explanation. It may simply be trying to access my LAN for some reason--but it's hard to say using ZA Pro 3.x. This sort of thing is bewildering. It seems there are many more programs within XP that routinely seek 'net access for some reason or another--for instance, I can understand why "Help" and so on accesses the Internet as it conveniently compiles an on-line database of help topics from the M$ knowledge base--I really like that feature! But the rest obviously go far beyond Product Activation, and I'd like to know why. Wouldn't you?
I loathe PA, and have already had to call in more than once when installing to my own home machines for reasons that were inexplicable to me, and at certain times when I expected to have to call in (such as the time I replaced motherboard and cpu) I was puzzled by the fact that I did not have to call--nor even to repeat PA over the 'net automatically! Go figure.
But I do have to admit in my honest bones: isn't this just the type of information gathering computers are well suited for? Of course it is. That's my dilemma--the hobby and profession I've enjoyed so much for the past decade and seven years has within it the seeds for some very ugly things like this to begin flowering at some point. And when it does--will my professional and personal activities be considered a part of the problem--or a part of the cure?
No kidding--this really bothers me sometimes. It reminds me of the nuclear scientists so wrapped up in the "interesting" minutiae of physics and so forth that they completely lost track of the ultimate use to which their work could be put when it was completed. Of course, the fact that there was a war going on is certainly mitigating. But still, after their work had borne its "fruit" it seemed that all their efforts to derail a nuclear arms race after it had begun were in vain.
Is that what's happening to us? Are we contributing to a monster's creation--a creation which when completed we will be utterly helpless to stop? I wish I knew because it really bothers me--at times.
What better way to go about implementation than to harness the the free market solutions, namely the market leader in such things. Face it, the only reasonable competition to Passport, in terms of seamlessness and stability, is the authentication used by AOL and perhaps Yahoo!, at least in terms of scalability and track record.
Sure there are other potential schemes, especially those popular with the so-called technically sophisticated, but I'm afraid they have yet to even vaguely be put to the test. Passport is tried and true by comparison to any of the suggestions listed here today in this story.
Face it folks: Free market == quick evolution. Open source tactics and proprietary systems engineered from the ground up are bound to be hobbled by slow development (mozilla), politics/corruption (the DNS system) or simple flakiness (any OSS/FS windowing system). Passport has survived its trial-by-fire and come out reasonably sturdy as a result.
I'd just like to complain about the headline. It says that the U.S. is considering using passport as a "national ID."
The immediate description says that they _might_ use it to authenticate everyone who accesses government services online.
These are two VERY different things. So, which is it?
Oh, look. They might just use it as (it was designed as) an authentication system!
If I'm not mistaken, plenty of entities are considering that, not just the government.
ATTN: Michael. Don't sensationalize stories. It's lame.
I'm not a fan of M$ or national ID, either, but this is a far cry from a national ID system.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
1010011010
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Now I know why they deported me from USA - b/c I refused to use M$ passport!
I think XNS would be a much better choice, since it isn't controlled by one company like Microsoft. With XNS, you have full control over what information you provide.
Silly, silly boy. The Government is NOT trying to stop Microsoft from having a monopoly.
The Government is trying to stop Microsoft from having a monopoly THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CONTROL.
Federally controlled monopolies (like good ol' Ma Bell) are what the government wants, not 'loose cannons' with lots of money (power) that Big Brother has no real control over.
You get with the system or you get taken out.
-Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
It's a first step in the wrong direction.
:(
God dawn the sept 11th ! What's next ? emmiting ships in every new born ?
I just realize that in a chaostic and insecure world like our own America is not the freedom annonced centuries ago anymore
M$ dominates virtually all desktops. In USA and in the World. M$ wants (with some success) to dominate in the web services. M$ opens the war against open source software. Again, in USA and in the World. Now, sit tighed and just watch what will happen soon:
M$ will control all personal information at first in USA, then in the World. The goverment(s) just follows the task list from M$ what law to accept and what is the tax policy this year. All open source organizations will be shut down and their leaders will be arrested. RMS and Linus will be deported to the Moon without any rights to return. Hitler and Stalin will be claimed as good theorists but faild on the practice in their attempt to build new united world order.
Welcome back to the world of communism, when money means virtually nothing (for simple people) and somebody has already decided what software should work on your PC, which books you should read adn what job you should work.
I don't think the Federal Government is still suing. The Department of Justice is settling (or attempting to). The nine hold out states are simply looking for different restrictions (which is remedies, not trial). The criminality has been upheld (antitrust is a criminal, not civil/tort litigation).
--Stupidity is Self Curing!
After the Sept. 11 attacks, some politicians and business leaders have called for a national identification card, but Forman said that's not in the works. "We don't have any plans for a national ID card," he said.
I don't want a single authentication for all my online transactions! That's really all this is about--trying to make it easier for people who don't want to remember a different login for every site. Well, guess what? Centralized authentication is massively insecure and prone to abuse.
Here's a better idea: Implement a standard for all web browsers to *locally* (or using a smart card) store authentication data for all sites a user has a seperate login for. Then, all the user needs to remember is a single passphrase to decrypt the database of authentication data. Yes, I know--mozilla already has this functionality. So lets make it an industry standard and as user-friendly as possible. And while we're at it, lets get people to start using encrypted e-mail / instant messaging / etc. as well! THAT would be a worthy government effort.
good luck script kiddies
I hope the intelligence level of the average american does not equal the intelligence level of their government... If it does something's seriously wrong in that country!
are they fucking high or something??????
Passport will only work with Microsoft platform... so in order to work with the government we will require Windows?
What BS.
Even when you try to have a simple reading test implemented in order to grant a license to vote it gets shot down by the Supreme Court (aww, the poor people can't vote because they can't read).
The statement above shows a rather shocking ignorance of history on your part.
I think you need to study up on how the alleged "literacy test" was used in the south to prevent blacks from voting.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
If the US government decides upon MS "technology" for a national ID program,and you are looking for CTO/IT Manager/Netmin in Toronto, please give me a call. I've set up a hotline, 1-800-HELLINAHANDCART. Don't call between 2AM - 10AM EST.
No excellent soul is exempt from a mixture of madness. --Aristotle
Now we know why Passport is getting pushed:
l . html&doc_id=207250, courtesy of FARK.com
"How Microsoft Conquered Washington"
http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artco
Getting scarier...
And yes, Fortune is part of AOLTW - no mention of their lobbying efforts or anti-M$ bias.
- CX
EVERYBODY:
/dev/null. Achieve nothing. Go back to downloading p0rn.
Write a protest mail. Send it many times to
Please please please let this be a stray April fools joke? Oh God, I can't deal with it if it's not. ;)
-Sara
Is this just a joke being played by canadian real estate agents trying to get their land values to increase more than they did during the vietnam war.
It's the French Tax authority that will use, among other things, Novell's eDirectory. e-Directory (formerly known as NDS) contains many features (and it can do what Passport does, too), and it scales to over 40 billion users. Microsoft's Active Directory could never scales a few orders of magnitute worse.
I don't know if and how Microsoft Passport ties into MS Active Directory, but I think it should, as it needs an authentication database back-end, and MAD seems to be a natural choice, for MS.
Sigged!
Uh, I was really just stating you didn't read the article. Which was seemingly evident. And I wasn't speaking about you in specific. Please go do some research as to Godwin's law. I was talking about the entire board.
You are obviously just trolling, and you are absolutely horrible at it. Your analogy is also horrible, in poor english, and is generally stupid.
I hope you have more redeeming qualities than those demonstrated on here today, otherwise I can see a tremendous waste of resources that makes up you.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Do you really thing Microsoft would want this? Microsoft is a control freak, and if this happened, the government would be able to dictate, to some extent, what Microsoft does with .NET and passport blah blah blah.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Im just glad I live in England where Micorsoft`s nasy tactics hit our government aswell as our citizens, there is an Anti-MS inclination over here.
loply.com
From the same idiots that brought you the (thankfully) failed CBDTPA and the DMCA, we now have MSUSA.
Yes, we plan to mandate that everyone use the technology that *we* approve of, but remember this is a free country.
Seriously, though... any effort to provide a *national id* (not that I agree w/ such a thing) should be based on an open standard, not a proprietary technology.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
From the ACLU:
A national ID would not prevent terrorism. An identity card is only as good as the information that establishes identity in the first place. Terrorists and criminals will continue to be able to obtain -- by legal and illegal means -- the documents needed to get a government ID, such as birth certificates and social security numbers. A national ID would create a false sense of security because it would enable individuals with an ID -- who may in fact be terrorists -- to avoid heightened security measures.
A national ID would depend on a massive bureaucracy that would limit our basic freedoms. A national ID system would depend on both the issuance of an ID card and the integration of huge amounts of personal information included in state and federal government databases. One employee mistake, an underlying database error or common fraud could take away an individual's ability to move freely from place to place or even make them unemployable until the government fixed their "file."
A national ID could require all Americans to carry an internal passport at all times, compromising our privacy, limiting our freedom, and exposing us to unfair discrimination based on national origin or religion. A national ID would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment. The ID could be used to stop, question, or challenge anyone perceived as looking or sounding "foreign" or individuals of certain religious affiliations.
By the way you can send a free fax to your congressmen opposing the national ID at the aclu's website at:
http://www.aclu.org/action/id107.html
I say we do everything possible to run their faxes outta toner.
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
No longer The Star-Spangled Banner but "Start Me Up" followed by "Ray of Light" and people floating around. and maybe with the intel sound at the end because of marketing agreements....
sounds like fun.
...that once such a screwed up scheme is put into place that the feds will then want to charge user fees for accessing the information.
Passport is being considered as a means to authenticate users of US government services online. Nothing more.
Oh yes is certainly is more. It is a step towards charging USER FEES for us to access the information that we now get for free.
is how the fortune.com article was written 11 days in the future. Now _that's_ technology.
I modded the Troll Investigation and I got
Once the federal government has you set up in such an online account, what's to stop them from then deciding to charge you USER FEES to access the online information you can otherwise now get for free. Trust me, that's the underlying ulterior motive for wanting to implement this this evil thing.
Now since M$ basically ownz the government (I think they bought a settlement. who's with me?), we'll get a MS-Memorial day, where we sit around and reflect on all the companies they bought or put out of business. Then, by law, you have to go out and buy the latest and "greatest" Windows OS. Windows just got better...
They clearly show their comitment to MS monopols protection !
I hope that lobby will be hard enough to keep US and the rest of the world from MS tatoo ! Say no to MS dictat, say no to MS-passport!
4R34'.
This reminds of a line from the first movie. Something along the lines of "Nonsense. Anyone is free to purchase shares in our company!"
---
For your protection, a copy of this message is being sent via RFC 1149.
This is the time when we need GeekPAC to start lobbying Congress. They've been deciding whether or not to accept money from corporations for awhile now. When will they start actually doing work?
The endtimes are quite a bit away.
Other prophecies have to be realized before they begin. One of them is Israel building a temple in Jerusalem, where the old one stood. Seeing as there's a muslim mosque at that place right now, it's not likely within the next few months.
Another is the arrival of the anti-christ, who will "rule for 7 years". For half that term, he will look like a good guy. The second half will show his true nature; but it will be too late. The anti-christ will be a global leader, and while we're heading that way with the likes of the EU, Earth is still far from being under the rule of one person.
So you can relax, because endtimes are not here.
In this case I became a US citizen when I opened my hotmail account five years ago, along with the 70 million or so others? And this is nice because if I get tired of my ID I can always get yours with a couple of lines of JScript.
We should really be grateful for the good that Bill is doing for us international people.
I wonder how much money Mark Forman got from Microsoft.
If this does go through, does that mean that government webites will only accept IE as a browser? I can see why they would. Just exploit one of the many bugs and you're in. Who needs Magic Lantern when MS will take care of it for them?
Why yes I am paranoid! Thanks for asking!
Hopefully people in the US will send the letters and make the calls to let the government know that whenever a microsoft solution is even _mentioned_ to "solve" the problem of secure national identification, people go crazy and things become genuinely unpleasant.
Microsoft cannot be trusted with our information. That is the greatest reason not to use their operating system, even greater than cost or lack of source code. They have abused their trust in the past, continue to do it even now, and will do it again. That's just the way things are.
The moment the people who care, for instance slashdotters, seem to be looking away and not paying attention anymore, will be the moment that scary legistlation like this will pass. That is why the DMCA passed.
Nobody knows about, or understands this stuff other than techies, so techies MUST send correspondence to protest whenever comments are made or legislation is presented which will harm society.
Personally, I would have no problems trusting my information to the government (well...maybe not the present government...see below). Microsoft, however, is a corporation, created for the express purpose of making money for Bill Gates. The government, on the other hand, is an organization created for the express purpose of serving the American people, however much the members of it may have forgotten that and tried to make it into a means of making money for themselves. I believe that before long, it will remember it, and be mostly trustworthy. I would never trust Microsoft to do anything except what will make the most money for Bill Gates--and if that means fiddling with our personal information, so that I'm suddenly a Russian woman with a criminal background (OK, extreme case, but that kind of thing), I expect they would do that. However many corrupt people there are in the government, its purpose still remains the same--to make our lives safer and more peaceful.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
Expirements do tend towards success. Pavlov's is almost certainly irreversible.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
So you're saying he gets elected for a second term, and on the 3rd year of the second term, brings about the end of the world? OK, np...at least we only have 6 more years of this shit to deal with.
This does not surprise me. Bill Gates and company aspire to control the world. It will be a bloodless coup. In the past, countries fought to control natural resources and territory. Now, the battle will be over control of information. Microsoft has launched its offensive and the rest of the world is ill prepared to defend itself.
In fact, the world has not even realized that they are under attack. Can you imagine, Bill Gates, Emperor of the World! If he or one of his minions does not like what you say or do, he will just suspend your passport. Then you won't even be able to access your money which was deposited in the First National Microsoft Bank or by groceries from the Microsoft Supermarket.
If you are stopped for a traffic violation, the officer will find that your license has been suspended because it is linked to your passport. If Bill really gets mad at you, he will revoke your passport all together and you will no longer exist. Wow! Instant exile!
This sounds like a good plot for a science fiction story. On second thought, we may just have to watch it play out on the evening news (as long as Bill allows semi-freedom of the press.)
I refuse any government imposing upon me technology from a company that has been found guilty of federal crime.
I suggest a common wealth approach is the correct method by which to do what is wanted.
Hmmm, common wealth and National ID not only is right but sounds right too.
Oh GRAET. And what does this mean for us Mac users? We won't get to be citizens of the United States? We're going to have to move to some non-U.S. country -- like ALASKA??
Besides, this is Microsoft we're talking about. Two hour tech support wait to fix my national ID that just crashed?
Ugh! I'm moving to Petoria or the New Utopia (new-utopia.com).
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
you == dumb
i hope you die a horrible, painful death very very soon.
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
if the Govt has to pay to purchase pricey extortionware from MS.
And then they get locked into a perpetual upgrade
and licensing cycle.
the alternative is to save the Taxpayers money
by using Open Soruce software.
Then again, state.pa.us's unemployment online forms are java or activex, IIRC...for simple fill-out forms. *sigh*
You damned Vancouvereans can go to HELL! Wait, you're already there!!! Ha ha ha! I'm hillarious!
:-)
I occasionally am involved in government funded projects. I constantly informed of the legal requirements to competetively bid requests for goods and services above a specific dollar amount.
Now the government is considering a huge sole-source contract to Microsoft for a substandard product that could potentially give MS access to just about whatever privledged information it wants.
Don't you find it concerning that an administration that doesn't think laws apply to their actions is contracting with a company that doesn't think laws apply to their actions to handle a lot of stuff that you might want to keep private?
Support SETI@home
When your liberty is totally gone and you are enslaved for generations it will take many more generations of blood spilled to take the power back. Yet, the geeks were idle.
@@@GEEKS HAVE IN THEIR HANDS RIGHT NOW THE POWER WITH WHICH TO DESTORY CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENTS IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES.@@@
Those in power now know how easily it can slip from their grips AND they ruthlessly protect that power for themselves.
@@@THE INTERNET WAS A GIFT TO US FROM A CORRUPTED GOVERNMENT WHICH KNOWS IT MUST BE DESTROYED AT SOME POINT@@@
I grieve in advance for those SOLDIERS OF LIBERTY who will sacrifice greatly to prevent the future of humanity from being enslaved for hundreds of generations.
@@@GEEKS, CHOOSE YOUR TARGETS WELL. SOCIETY IS NOT THE ENEMY. KNOW YOUR ENEMY. THE ENEMY IS THE CORPORATE-STATE COMPLEX. CREDIT CARD COMPANIES. IRS. CIA. FEDERAL RESERVE. BATF. INSURANCE COMPANIES. EVERY PARASITE IN A POSITION OF POWER.
LIBERTY AND CONSTITUTION
When was the last time your *REALLY* sat down to read the US Constitution?
Hi! How are you?
I detain you at Customs in order to have your advice.
See you later! Thanks
Hey Baggins! Get me a fucking beer!
I can't believe that this is happening! I hope that there will be Linux alternatives.
I feel so violated!
;^))
testing out my trending skills
Wow, Tyler Durden finally got himself a /. account.
They that would sacrifice their
Each and every day we learn more, yet each and ever day we hear the same old lame cover ups. How many days of this must pass before it will stop? How long will you sit back and allow the current administration to strip America of all it has. How long will you continue to look the other way, pretending it makes no difference? How long before you no longer have the rights to even think of stopping it? Anyone that questions anything is unpatriotic, anyone that doesn't shut up and just wave their flag is supporting the "evil ones", whom ever that may be at any given time of the day - usually just pulled out of the thin air whenever someone starts to question anything, heck , recently they called democracy itself evil when their involvement of the coup in Venuzuela to replace a well liked democratically leader with a oil friendly businessman.
Elections are coming up, you can make a difference, let the candidate know, send in a check, regardless of how small it will help the cause to give America back to the people.This insanity must stop while there is still a chance to get America back the days of peace and prosperity we knew so long ago, well it seems like long ago....
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
I work in the security industry, and I can tell you now that there are no other products that can do what the US govt want to do at the scale that they want to do in production today.
Sure there are alternatives, including the Sun Liberty thingy (substitute your evil vendor for someone else's), but no one else has a federated existing customer base of the size of Passport's.
I've reviewed various products like Netegrity's SiteMinder, iPlanet, and a few others including online banking authenticators, and trust me, it's really hard to get this right. And from the two Passport integrations I've seen, passport is done right. It's a breeze compared to Siteminder and doesn't install an SDK and samples on the box that you don't find unless you really look hard.
A government wants to just get something off the shelf and make it work. The scalability issue is the major one, and Passport is one of a very small number of products out there with a large user base today (30 million+).
The trick with any SSO scheme (and Passport is one of them) is the security administration associated with it. Plus you have to validate each and every site to ensure no leaks, no confidentiality breaches, good cookie practices, etc. This is MUCH harder than getting the SSO stuff to work.
And realistically, wouldn't you prefer the govt to just make services available online? I hate calling my govt's call centres - such a waste of everyone's time.
Andrew van der Stock
Personally, I'd be getting Adult Check not passport.
Pr0n sites are hit much harder than the many federated Passport sites by desperate geeks wanting to see pics of Natalie Portman with grits.
I'm serious.
Andrew van der Stock
MSNBC, MSN, ... MSUSA, MSEUROPE soon you will have to prfix your name with MS
Carnegie, Rockefeller, et al would be jealous.
what's next rename the company to bgsoft so we have to prefix everything the the initals of the beast? how bout 666 soft?
The CIA sold cocaine to fund operations during Iran-Contra. I'm not sure which sources you'd find 'reputable' since people have different ideas of what's reputable but do a search on google on 'Iran, Contra, Cocaine' and you'll see what i'm talking about. The Iran-Contra affair isn't just some hallucination of conspiracy theorists.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Unfortunately, Devon is correct. There was a slashdot article linking to a story last summer about a construction firm that posted the building code for one of the states. Texas, I think, but I'm not sure.
The guy _lost_ his court battle to post _a_copy_of_a_law_ because the building association (bunch of big contractors, basically) claimed the law was copyrighted by them! It blew my mind when I read it. This country has some of the most bizarre laws in the world, I swear.
I bet your mother is proud of you.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
So you register to vote through MSN! And Microsoft controls the list of registered voters. Mmmm, democracy.
He does have a point. we do control the internet. how fast would the US government change their mind if all the geeks walked off the job? Would they be persuaded by the entire IT/Telecom industry grinding to a screeching halt over a period of 30 seconds or so?
What? Me? Worry?
.... Disinformation.
The Privacy Song explains it quite well.
I find it rather amusing when I get junk mail addressed to one of my comic characters... *eg*
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27946&cid=3004 106
Sorry.. My post seems incomplete.. So why do we take this crap? We have today's business marketplace by the balls! We are the ones that are developing these standards for our employers. Would microsoft be so powerful if all bill's code grinders quit? if we were to simply *refuse* to write the software that would allow these nasty DRM technologies possible then it simply wouldn't happen
What? Me? Worry?
Tyler Durden was a lot more articulate as well.
/.
I'm not a lawyer, so this sort of semantic chicanery is lost on me.
Microsoft stole intellectual and physical properties, they got caught, they got punished by the court system.
And incidentally, it's scientist not surgeon- I don't practice medicine professionally.
--Charlie