Unreal Tournament 2004 Goes Gold

psyco484 writes "Unreal Tournament 2004 has gone gold, the game will be in stores on March 15th. After an impressive demo, I'm certainly looking forward to this one." There are several improvements over UT2003, but my favorite is the ability to carry dual assault rifles.

Comments

Vehicles

[wed128]

The vehicles in the Onslaught mode have to be the coolest addition ever!!!

Re:Vehicles

[GrodinTierce]

I quite agree. While UT2004 certainly isn't the first FPS with vehicles, nor does it have the huge collection of some games (e.g. BF1942 and/or DesertCombat), its vehicles are well-designed, well-balanced, and so much fun, it's kind of ridiculous.

Re:Vehicles

[vanillacoke]

And with the addition of software rendering thousands of geeks at work everywhere productivity just goes out the window.

Re:Vehicles

[nukem1999]

And most other games' vehicles don't have horns that play La Cucaracha(Manta) and Dixie(Scorpion) :)

Re:Vehicles

[AnomalyConcept]

The vehicles are well balanced and take some skill to master... I especially like the Manta, and jumping atop people. =) One of the guys in my dorm is absolutely insane at it. Unfortunately, UT isn't my type of game... it seems to ruin my Counter-Strike skills (bunny-hopping, no recoil, the entire 'aim' concept...) All in all, a fun game, and very, very addicting.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm posting anonymously for obvious reasons.

I'm a teaching fellow (TF) at Harvard, and I spend a lot of time in the lab on my studies.

If there's one thing that bugs me, it is networked games. It is impossible to get work done while other TFs are playing noisy games. Often, they end up stinking out the lab with body odour from getting too involved in the game.

I once caught a student playing Doom 3 in the student lab. To start with he didn't believe me when I said "I'm going to get you kicked out of school", but he did when he was called before the disciplinary board. Thankfully, he had a rich father who bailed him out and I dropped the complaint.

I suggest that if you are going to play a noisy game, that you use head phones and keep the voices down.

Thanks in advance.

Re:Vehicles

[hype7]

and what's more, Mac and Linux versions are following right behind.

The way all games should be developed. Kudos to Epic/Atari.

-- james

Re:Vehicles

[pcx]

Vehicles in UT2004 = hopping shotgun into a jeep driven by an insane pre-teen with no-motor control who makes a strategic decision to drive halfway across the map to an unlinked power node (the kind you can't attack) and makes the tactical calculation that if you smash the tank head on the jeep will be the winner.

What's amazing is that onslaugh is fun despite this :)

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

The beauty of the unreal engine is all 3 are developed in tangent because UT uses OGL in Linux and OGL.

Yes I know the pros of using DX as the windows based render (there are hooks in it to take advantage of DX9...but the game doesn't show it now) but with opengl having shader support, I think they should return to OGL.

Just one mans uninformed, uneducated opinion.

Re:Vehicles

[Deekin_Scalesinger]

You don't get invited to a lot of LAN parties I imagine...

Re:Vehicles

[SphericalCrusher]

Hell yeah dude. When I first downloaded and played the UT2004 demo and saw those... I literally shat myself.

Hello Halo, meet your rival!

On a side note, dual-assault rifles is an amazing thing to have... even if they blow. If I was good at OpenGL programming though, I'd be running around with two flak cannons. =)

Re:Vehicles

[mog007]

I own the original UT, UT2k3, I have the UT2k4 demo, and I've got UT2k4 pre-ordered. I bought UT because it looked good, and it was. I bought UT2k3 because of name recognition, and it was a severe disappointment. They took out assault, fucked with the weapons, and even yanked the sniper rifle.

After I tried the demo for UT2k4, I realized that UT2k4 is what UT2k3 SHOULD have been. It's a true sequal, not an ugly stepchild sucking on the name that brought success.

Re:Vehicles

[Tuxinatorium]

Yes!! W00t!!!!! This has to be the coolest thing in the world since the strangelove mod came out for original UT!

Re:Vehicles

[lewp]

Indeed. I have always been an Unreal hater, but I haven't touched CS since the UT2K4 demo came out. The sole reason for that is because of Onslaught. CTF and DM were done to death a long time ago.

Assault would probably be cool too, but I don't like the gimmick map they included with the demo.

Mantas rule.

Re:Vehicles

[zerocool^]

I totally agree; however, I do have a bone to pick with Onslaught, or mabey it's just the Torlan map.

Once you're losing, and you're down to your base and only one or two power nodes, it's damn near impossible to fight your way back. The vehicles are simply too powerful, and your base doesn't spawn the two most useful vehicles (the scorpion and the tank). And the ability to spawn at any power node you have captured means that even after you kill everyone rushing your base, they're right back there (they don't have to run across the playing field).

Needs tweaking, but inspite of the downfalls, I've been playing the crap out of it.

~Will

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenGL makes sense if you aim to do cross-platform games. Even Blizzard still uses it, and they seem to have no intention of making Linux games (even though they do Mac games).

OpenGL is a great 3D API. No complaints here.

Re:Vehicles

[Pros_n_Cons]

On of my favorite things is to put those spider mines on the vehicles then as someone drives the truck they jump off and get you frags =) Another tip I heard from an UNreal developer on techtv is when you use the heat seeking missles don't lock on till the last second so people can't dodge. This is the most fun i've had since quake 1 i'm actually going to buy this game!

Re:Vehicles

[Sigma 7]

They took out assault, fucked with the weapons, and even yanked the sniper rifle.

A sniper rifle by any other name is still a sniper rifle - even if it shoots lightning.

The lightning gun is a simple case of overcompensation - it was extremely overpowered in the first Unreal Tournament. As proof, play CTF-FacingWorlds against Godlike bots - it is no problem to enter a killing spree with 25+ kills.

In UT2003, it's much harder to do so on the same map (although it can be debated that the central Pyrmaid cuts down on available targets.) Since the firing rate is cut down, the supporting enemies of the recently killed have a chance to return fire against the sniper using almost any weapon they choose - including superweapons.

Re:Vehicles

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

What is cooler still is that this philosophy goes all the way up the corporate tree. A while ago I wrote a letter to their support department asking about Mac ports, and I didn't get a friendly, personal letter confirming the Mac and Linux ports from some guy in the trenches, I got one from Mark Rein, Epics V.P.

A company whose big-wigs take the time to answer mail, and who understand the importance of supporting minor platforms is definitely a company I enjoy giving my money too.

Re:Vehicles

[kundor]

The linux versions, at least, are on the same CDs, aren't they? That's the way it was the two previous versions.

If the linux installer isn't on the same CDs, I have a preorder to cancel.

Re:Vehicles

[IamNotWitchboy]

UnrealScript ins incredibly modular and object-oriented. Implementing such mod would be extremly simple and you wouldn't have to touch a single line of OpenGL or C/C++ code even.

It would be a very interesting initiation to UnrealScript and would serve as a very educative experience. You should really try it

http://unreal.epicgames.com/UnrealScript.htm

Re:Vehicles

[Snaller]

But some of the cars in DesertCombat play Iraqi folk music!

Re:Vehicles

[kundor]

It's possible to fight your way back, with luck, even from holding only your base. I've seen it done.

Plan 1: Send the raptor up the tower and get the redeemer. take out the node by your base. have someone standing by to build a node there immediately.
Take the raptor down and get the next node over from that, have one person delay people coming through the middle and converge everyone on the other corner node.

Suddenly the tables have turned.

Re:Vehicles

[kundor]

You know, it's possible to deliver a manta to the top of the comm tower on the back of the raptor...from there it can jump anywhere on the map.

...

What? We've only had one map to play on for 2 weeks, what better things do we have to do than balance a manta on a plane?!?

Re:Vehicles

[cubic6]

I agree, and add the reason that whoever gets snipers on the hill in the middle practically owns the map. It's definately needs a little rebalancing.

Re:Vehicles

[Graff]

A while ago I wrote a letter to their support department asking about Mac ports, and I didn't get a friendly, personal letter confirming the Mac and Linux ports from some guy in the trenches, I got one from Mark Rein, Epics V.P.

A company whose big-wigs take the time to answer mail, and who understand the importance of supporting minor platforms is definitely a company I enjoy giving my money too.

Yep, my cash is going right to Unreal Tournament 2004 when it comes out and I'm doing the same to World of Warcraft when that is released. Both Atari/Epic and Blizzard are on the ball here. It's too bad that Bungie went all micro and soft because they also used to be one of the "good guys" before they got swallowed by Bill Gate's greed.

Re:Vehicles

[Geccoman]

Version 1 - Win/Linux
Version 2 - Mac

You're cool, don't cancel.

Re:Vehicles

[Geccoman]

To add to your comment, I've found that the comeback is usually swift and painful for the other team. Every single time I'm able to take back those close nodes, we KILL the other team very quickly.

Re:Vehicles

[kundor]

Thanks.

That's what I assumed, but I never actually checked. Since the linux demo was released at the same time as the windows demo, more or less, I figured they were coming out simultaneously.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd. I remember the last troll saying something like that, only to see someone else mod'd "informative" because they corrected said troll, noting that the "TAs" at Harvard are actually called TFs...

E.G. If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll...

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Gabe Newell, of VALVe fame, also like to stay in touch with 'the community'

Gabe. we love your HL2 alpha !

Re:Vehicles

[88NoSoup4U88]

Nah , I don't agree : I seen alot of games turn around , even with that node taken.
The big advantage of spawning in your own base are 1. The anti-vehicle rockets 2. The sniper platform 3. The Turrets.
If used in good coordination with your team (-USE- your mic , instead of them voice-scripts ! ) it's not too hard to regain control of that node.

Re:Vehicles

[Boinger69]

And what key do you hit to acheive this? ; only gives a double honk, not a tune.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

What is also cool is that you can stand on the manta's fans and ride along with it. That, and I was able to perfectly balance a Hellbender on it's front grill with no damage while driving off a cliff in Onslaught :)

Re:Vehicles

[SphericalCrusher]

Hey man, thanks a lot! I'll check it out.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

I partially disagree. I think the AVRiL coupled with twits thinking they're invulnerable in vehicles in the coolest addition ever.

Re:Vehicles

[d_i_r_t_y]

i've been playing the linux demo for a couple of weeks... plays perfectly, exactly as it should.

woohoo! excellent game (onslaught -- haven't played anything else yet, lol).

Re:Vehicles

[InShadows]

If you press semicolon ( ; ) while driving a vehicle it will play the horn! There is a different horn sound for each vehicle.

Also, if you bind a key to 'playvehiclehorn 1' it will play a second, slightly more funny horn for each vehicle. Do that by entering:

set input "key" playvehiclehorn 1

At the console, where "key" is whatever key you want to bind it to.

Re:Vehicles

[Shadow99_1]

Uh not to be mean, but I regularly fight off attacks that have my side back to the main base. Now the problem lies with my support, once I kill them all off the first node & retake that location, my team usual ends up screwing up... If they don't we keep the node & can push them all the way back...

Then again I've managed to accumulate 120 pts in a single 12 minute game (or if you want call it 1 pt per 6 seconds). I regularly fight off 4 or 5 guys at a time before someone gets lucky...

Re:Vehicles

[Neotrantor]

how about if they added the ability to kill a yak with mind bullets and a free D cd

Re:Vehicles

[tankdilla]

Another thing to remember once you've gotten the node closest to your base is that players can't spawn at an unsecured node. Meaning, if you attack an opponent's node, they won't be able to spawn at that node. So by having team members attack the next 2 closest nodes, you prevent the enemy from spawning so close to your newly reacquired node, and it gives you time to secure and regroup your team. Keep this in mind and soon your opponent will only be able to spawn at their base, while your team works on knocking out their other nodes. It's the little things that help, and end up making the comeback so sweet.

Personally I think it's easier to make a comeback than a straight conquest, but it also kinda depends on the players on your team.

Re:Vehicles

[CaptnMArk]

I have noticed this too.

Re:Vehicles

[mcpkaaos]

God I admire you.

Re:Vehicles

[GoatPigSheep]

I think that was me driving that jeep, and I am sorry.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

or you can just get a good running start and ramp up one of the hills on the edge of the map to get the manta on top of the tower (i assume comm tower is the sniper tower). Then you put you manta over the spawn point and anyone who tries to spawn there is crushed (not 100% of the time but close).

Re:Vehicles

[kundor]

the comm tower is the giant tower in the center of the map, with the redeemer. I very much doubt that you can jump there with the manta.

Re:Vehicles

[Pxtl]

Amen. I've played Face with humans - newbs at that. The midpoint of the map is totally impassable for all the sniper fire. To the point that I replace the sniper rifle with more balanced sniper replacements such as a clone of the Q3 rail or a remote-controlled rocket (think of it as a mini-deemer).

Re:Vehicles

[Pxtl]

Amen. With only a knowledge of Java, I was able to jump in and make a new weaponmod in only a day's work of reading and coding.

Re:Vehicles

[Pxtl]

I liked the changes. The rocket launcher caused huge problems with its 5 loading in original UT. It made the assault levels totally circumventable by "launching" your teammates. It meant that it was by far the best weapon in any mode involving superscalar monsters. 3 missiles fit it back in the spread.

The ripper was stupid, so its gone. It was easier to kill someone by accident than deliberately.

The biorifle was underpowered. Its not anymore.

The flak cannon was overpowered. Its not anymore.

The alt-fire of the minigun was unclear to newbs. Explosive bullets are hard to miss.

The shock-rifle was used as a spammy weapon, and its not now. Besides, the shock-beam in UT was dumb - it was a hitscan weapon that didn't look like one.

Re:Vehicles

[Sparr0]

This is the reason for the custom node link setup. Servers can link the nodes together however they want, the default setup is just a suggestion. Filter your server list for names containing "Custom" or "Customlinks" or "Custom Links" for a world of new fun. I find it much more fun when the bases link to the goliath nodes (the 'enemy' goliath node), then from there to other nodes. This ensures both teams have their tank almost to the end. Or when both bases are linked to TWO nodes, making it so much easier to break out of being base camped. Or when at least one node is linked *ONLY* to a base, making it uncapturable for the other team, giving a base camped team two places to spawn.

Re:Vehicles

[KD5UZZ]

-1 (Sad)?

Re:Vehicles

[Tom]

it's damn near impossible to fight your way back.

It is possible. You just need something that you rarely find on pubs: Teamwork.

Re:Vehicles

[Fallen_Knight]

Kudos to epic. I'm sure they are firceing atari to pubish it like this. Atari is a BAD publisher.

UT2003 came in paper sleeves, no manual, and stiff copy protection. And customer support sucked.

Re:Vehicles

[MrLizardo]

You can get far enough up to make for a good sniping position, but no not up to the redeemer. I have seen a video where someone shot a redeemer at the side of the center tower then got in a manta, hopped it up to the side of the tower and used the redeemer like you'd use a rocket jump to get the rest of the way up. Far from practical. :)

-Mr Lizardo

Re:Vehicles

[ErroneousBee]

Were you the one that went backwards, forwards, turned a bit, bumped into the gate post, realised they couldnt drive and ran away to join the battle on foot?

Next time I'll have a microphone, so I can try the 'Put it in gear, love. Now turn the wheel, bit more, bit more. Now go forward. STOP!!!' routine.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

there are a few servers out there with custom linked maps where the nodes are setup differently...the games seam to be better balanced then

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

developed in tangent

That should be "developed in tandem". No flame, just thought you should know the right word.

Re:Vehicles

[biglig2]

Yes, there's the truck with a big gun in back with a different name to the truck with a big gun in back in Halo, the floaty thing that leaves trails with a different name to the floaty thing that leaves trails in Halo, the tank with a different name to the tank in Halo, and of course the zippy hovercraft you run people over in with a different name to the zippy hovercraft you run people over in in Halo.

Mind you, the dune buggy with a flickknife on the door is new.

(BTW I do like the Onslaught Demo myself a lot, except for the buggers at round start who drive off in the Warthog, sorry Hellblazer, without waiting for a crew)

Re:Vehicles

[DynamiteNeon]

I've never been a big fan of first person shooters, but Onslaught has me hooked right now.

It's possible to come back from behind. It's just a matter of working together to take back that first power node. The problem though is that too many new people get caught up defending the base when some of them really should be attacking.

Onslaught is great because if you have two good teams, it's basically like tug-o-war, going back and forth a few times until finally someone wears out.

Re:Vehicles

[RickL]

Ah yes, "pancake". For those who haven't tried it yet, the Manta is hovercraft of sorts. It usually flies just high enough to pass over people's heads. But then you can always suddenly descend..."pancake".

The announcer commentary is one of the things that makes UT series fun. It always makes me happy to be acknowledged for doing something nifty. Even if the acknowledgement comes from a computer. With the vehicles you get some new ones:

"pancake"
"Road rage"
"Vehicular mansaughter"
"Hit and run"
"top gun"

And of course the series:
"double kill", "multikill", "ultrakill", "megakill", etc. is still there.

Re:Vehicles

[RickL]

I rather liked the ripper. It wasn't terribly useful, and as you say, just as easy to kill teammates: friendly-fire friendly. I thought it was funny. I like my weapons to be funny.

What I really miss from the original UT is the secondary fire from the rocket launcher. Rather than rockets, it would launch grenades. These were really handy for firing around a corner. As much as I liked the number of rockets you could fire in the original UT, I agree that it was too powerful.

I hated the pulse guns in the original and UT2K3 (well, they are called link guns now). In UT2K4 Onslaught, they are actually useful.

Now for the superweapons. The redeemer is, as always loads of fun. Portable nukes...fun for the entire family. In UT2K3, the Ion Painter was interesting, but wasn't on enough maps for me to really play with it. I would like to see a 3rd superweapon. Perhaps not an instakill. I think a fairly quick-acting biological or chemical weapon would be interesting. Fire a canister, and watch your enemies die as their health slowly drains away. It should take something like 20-30 seconds, and then dissolve to skeletons then to vapor.

Re:Vehicles

[RickL]

(BTW I do like the Onslaught Demo myself a lot, except for the buggers at round start who drive off in the Warthog, sorry Hellblazer, without waiting for a crew)

I assume you are talking about the bots. I usually force them to give me a ride. I stand next to the Hellblazer, waiting for a bot to hop in. Then I jump in before he can drive away.

Have you noticed that the license plate on the Hellblazer changes to your name when you are driving? Nice touch.

Re:Vehicles

[aaackk spit]

Total Agreement! I won't even touch the CTF or DM portions of the demo. Seen it...Played it!

Re:Vehicles

[SatanicPuppy]

Blizzard may not make Linux games, but the ones they do make run beautifully under Wine.

Re:Vehicles

[biglig2]

Yes, I love the number plate thing. ;-)

No, I mean humans. Lots of people don't grasp the main tactic you should use on startup:

One person takes the Raptor and harasses the enemy as they try to cap their nodes.

One person takes the Manta to node#1 and caps it, then moves to node #3 and waits for the tank.

Three people take the Hellbender to node #2 and cap it. Two switch to the tank and procede to node #3. The other either takes the HB back to node #2 or takes the node 3 manta to the oppositions node 3 in the hope that it is undefended and that they can take it.

Anyone else moves out on foot to the other nodes to try and pick up some other transport.

Re:Vehicles

[Lordrashmi]

A nice tip for you in any vehicle. Jump in and then hit 1,2 or 3 to select which seat you are in. I will typically run to the hellbender and jump in #3 seat. This also is useful when no one seems to want to drive with you (on sparsely populated servers). I will take the hellbender or the tank and drive to the ridge next to the comm tower. Throw out spider mines to cover your back, then jump to the #3 seat, zoom in and start killing anyone at the first powernode or coming out of the base.

Re:Vehicles

[mcpkaaos]

This one is free

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

Once you're losing, and you're down to your base and only one or two power nodes, it's damn near impossible to fight your way back.

I beg to differ, there's been times when the opposing team would concentrate too much on attacking the core that they neglect the neighboring powernode.

I've gone from the brink of death to victory before. Just have to make good use of the base defenses and precise timing to get the redeemer.

I can't believe I'm having this much fun on a demo. Linux is so sweet! It maybe my first linux software purchase!

Re:Vehicles

[Ilgaz]

Maybe they (Blizzard) check Slashdot and say "Well no Linux users will buy our games"... Eh? ... a happy mac warcraft player...

Re:Vehicles

[WorkEmail]

I think that double Domination is the best game mode in Unreal. I play SOF2 and Halo and MOHAA on PC, and have only played Unreal 2K3 on PC, but am really looking forward to Unreal Tournament 2K4!

Re:Vehicles

[CaseyB]

The biggest problem with the strategy of bad players is that they end up trying to defend the base itself once all the nodes are lost. You do that, and it's just a matter of time until you're dead.

Re:Vehicles

[CaseyB]

I like to take the first tank and head past my base to the opposite tank node. It's not usually well defended, and losing that node while they're fighting over the middle node really screws up their momentum.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

What about BSD?... ...Ohh wait its dying.

Well IIRC ID Software are also good at makeing games for many platforms. Thats a good thing.

More platforms supported, More gamers, More fun, But most importent of all things more frags! The the game makers should be able to make more money as well.

Re:Vehicles

[ShadowBlasko]

Agreed, with one exception.

*2* people take the Manta to node 3, at least. That way less of your crew has to walk. Just slam it down when you get in, and let them jump on the wings.

I've carried 4 on it, thats the most so far.

OTOH, one thing that annoys me is when people jump out of badly damaged vehicles up by the tank node, and jump in the tank, letting the manta or other vehicle coast into the bushes. As long as it is damaged, and not dead, it will *not* re-spawn back "wherever" you took it from for another player on your team. That leaves people walking, and less effective.

Then again, on the other other hand, it is an effective way to gain mobile superiority against your enemy. Hijack thier damaged vehicles, find a hiding place, and leave them there. There are some good ones.

(damn, I suddenly feel like I should not have said that)

Re:Vehicles

[Inuchance]

I wasn't expecting to be the winner, I was expecting a tie. =P

Re:Vehicles

[Lord Ender]

How about the power... to move you.

Re:Vehicles

[Sabalon]

My bad. I can't get the vehicles to drive right. They seem to have a mind of their own. Guess I'm too old. I'm sure the pre-teens do a better job of driving them than this middle-aged person.

I'm more of the "hey...there is someone. Yup...looks like he's on the other team...lets aim and take a shot at...oh crap...he already shot me" type.

Re:Vehicles

[Sabalon]

Difficult, but not impossible. Get the AVRIL from your base.

The problem I find is that the base will be under attack and you need to get another node, yet everyone gets in one of the vehicles at the base and dissapears on the map.

My biggest peave is the idiots who jump in the truck and fly out of there without any gunners. Dumbasses.

Then again, it is rare to find good teamwork.

Re:Vehicles

[VRisaMetaphor]

My favorite announcer comment: "Eagle eye" when you hit a flying vehicle with the tank's main canon.

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

eg is exempli gratia and means "for example."

ie is id est and means "that is."

This was a public service announcement brought to you by Latin Nazi.

Re:Vehicles

[Sigma 7]

The rocket launcher caused huge problems with its 5 loading in original UT.

6-loading, actually. It origianlly appeared in "Unreal" as the stick of six fires, and wasn't determined to be unbalancing at the time (ha, as if). There are other similarities between Unreal and UT weaponry, which can be left to an exercise for the reader.

The six-rocket pack may have been considered acceptable, mainly because the defensive items in Unreal are stackable (shiled, armor, and super-health for a 500 hitpoint supersoldier). Now that armor is capped at 150, six rockets has become a bit too powerful.

The ripper was stupid, so its gone. It was easier to kill someone by accident than deliberately.

I'd agree, even though it is fairly useful against AI players. Just aim just above the horizontal plane and it does headshots 4 times out of 5. It's an intentional kill but considered "spamming" by veteren players (but that's the point of the ripper.)

This trick doesn't work on bunny hoppers, or players who know to stay away from flying bits of metal. And given that the other weapons are much better than the Ripper (when you exclude head-shots), it's no suprise that it was taken out.

Re:Vehicles

[oingoboingo]

nce you're losing, and you're down to your base and only one or two power nodes, it's damn near impossible to fight your way back

I have seen many comebacks from precisely that situation. It isn't easy, but it is possible with a good team. I think it's the best part of the game...the enemy trying to hit your power core, half your team mates madly scrambling around to take out the base invaders, and the other half rushing out to destroy the linked enemy power node. Some of those desperate last-ditch battles are absolutely fantastic to watch.

Re:Vehicles

[cfuse]

What's amazing is that onslaugh is fun despite this :)

Or because of this.

I like a game where I am actually rewarded for my poor motor skills. There's nothing like hearing 'serious' players on voice chat screaming demented orders seconds before ploughing over them in the hellbender. And driving the cars off the edges of the cliffs is heaps of fun - Daredevil!

Re:Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

Tangent? More like Parallel!

Oh I kill me sometimes!

Re:Vehicles

[biglig2]

Yes, another good strategy - if you have both tanks and plenty of snipers in the hills overlooking their base it's hard for them to get back.

When putting 4 people on a Manta (!) don't forget that the tanks are very vulnerable if they don't have both crew.

What else...another task for the raptor is getting the redeemer. Also don't forget the HB and Manta above the middle node - a good trick with these is to approach teh enemy base from the side and drive up to the ramparts overlooking their reactor - half the time the enemy don't realise you are there and even when they do you're hard to flush out.

Re:Vehicles

[squiggleslash]

Hell yeah dude. When I first downloaded and played the UT2004 demo and saw those... I literally shat myself.

That's quite a reaction. I really, really, hope you're one of these people who misuses the word "literally"...

rock on!

[trollercoaster]

yeah

Re:rock on!

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, ain't seen you in a while!

--sa

assault rifles

[xenocytekron]

Is it even possible to carry two assault rifles simultaneously in real life? sounds a bit heavy...

Re:assault rifles

[Ozone Depletion]

*looks at da govinator*

Re:assault rifles

[savagedome]

Is it even possible to carry two assault rifles simultaneously in real life?

Not the article but not even the Title now? I would have to say RFTT dude. Its Unreal Tournament ;)

Re:assault rifles

[frankthechicken]

Is it even possible to carry two assault rifles simultaneously in real life?

It certainly is possible, much like the British SAS' much vaunted ability to fire a rocket at the ground, propelling themselves behind enemy lines.

In fact only the other day, I was walking around town, felt a bit short of cash, and decided to headbut a wall, and bounce a top several passerbys, earned a small fortune that day.

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

Not possible for a puny weakling nerd like you. A big burly jock like me could handle it.

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it even possible to make such a stupid statement in real life? sounds a bit idiotic...

Re:assault rifles

[AbstracTus]

Is it even possible to carry two assault rifles simultaneously in real life? sounds a bit heavy... Well, you can carry two, but if you're gonna shoot somebody you might wanna put one of them down first.

Re:assault rifles

[rholliday]

Man, I can't tell you how many times those floating stars have kept me from getting a ticket. So handy to just dive in an alley and make the police forget about you ...

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually not very.
The Bushmaster Carbon 15 weighs only 4.3 pounds. Throw in a 30 round clip, and you're probably up to 5.

They're also .223, so the recoil is much less that you'd think. Switch it to 3 round burst, and it's not only do-able, but quite comfortable I'd imagine.

The accuracy would most likley go down quite a bit, even with a restraining strap. Likley to the point where it's not worth it, unless you're in a crowded room. :) The game probably only has the accuracy go down by 20-40% though, otherwise no one would even bother using it.

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you not see the Steven Seagal counter-terrorist documentary, Under Siege? There's a scene in which he demonstrates how to clear out two rooms at once by using assault rifles pointed in sideways directions in front of one's chest.

If he can do it, I'm sure Anthony Michael Hall can do it.

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a game dude.

Entertainment.

Don't think too much about it and you might find it fun ;)

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, I suppose we can let it slip and assume you just got excited at the chance to correct him and really meant "RTFT" ;)

(hey, I'm pretty excited!)

Re:assault rifles

[NanoGator]

"Not the article but not even the Title now? I would have to say RFTT dude. Its Unreal Tournament ;)"

Uh.. pardon my naievness, but wasn't the reason it was originally called Unreal was that they excelled graphically in both hardware and software mode? I remember being quite surprised when I first got it. Even without a 3D card, they did some neat stuff that just wasn't being done at the time. It did look 'unreal'. I don't think the original reference was to the practicality of the game. Since this is a continuance of the franchise, I can imagine it's still meant in the same spirit.

But who knows, maybe I'm wrong. There's a couple of sides to this issue. On one hand, it has to be semi-grounded in reality. For example, it would be odd if you ran off a cliff, but didn't fall until you looked down in Yosemite Sam fashion. At the same time, though, how much fun would the game be if it was too realistic? I'd have a heart attack if I tried to run a short distance, heh.

There is a fine line there one must walk when designing a game like that. Afterall, if real life was so exciting, where would the game market be?

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they're not assault rifles, but I've shot two fully automatic Uzi's at once. Both my brother and I own one each. The first time we had them both at the range, one of the things I had to do was shoot them both at the same time. Fun to say you've done it, but that's about it. Can't hit shit because you can't use the sights on either gun.

And to answer the question I'm sure some of you are asking yourself, they are legal for private citizens to possess in most US states, if you jump through all the legal hoops. Here's the place that sold them, until they ran out.

Re:assault rifles

[Lumpy]

doesn't matter it's a returning feature. In the origional UT you could, and it was the smartest thing they could have done was to bring that back.

now to get the AI players drive the damned tank right whil I'm shooting...

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

You will put a lot more rounds on target with one properly aimed weapon than with two shooting from the hip.

If you want suppressing fire, get a SAW.

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

(read: fuck the title)

Re:assault rifles

[Jaysyn]

It was dual pistols wasn't it?

My peeve with the game is I can't get the freaking bots to get in the Hellbender when I'm driving around, they seem to enjoy running into me though.

Jaysyn

Re:assault rifles

[raodin]

Err, in the original UT you could use dual PISTOLS. Thats a little different.

Re:assault rifles

[JVert]

I dunno, i've shot guns before, never tried 2 at the same time but dont have access to 2 identical pistols.

But it seems to me that it takes a second to recover from the recoil from gun and that can be offset by putting less effort into steadying a fired gun then aiming with your still gun. Your first gun will naturally swing back into position while your in the proccess of firing your second gun.

Re:assault rifles

[Junior J. Junior III]

Shooting two guns at the same time is about as ridiculous as trying to write with both hands simultaneously. You simply can't concentrate on both tasks. Even if you're aiming at the same target, you can only put your eyes on one set of sights, and the other weapon is bound to drift off target by increasing degrees.

The only way this wouldn't matter is if your target is at point blank range or is so large that it's nearly impossible to miss it, in which case you're most likely better off getting a single, larger weapon. The only way it might change is if both weapons are physically connected to each other, as with co-axial machinegun turrets or the like.

Re:assault rifles

[Shoten]

You should visit Texas sometime. That's all I have to say.

Re:assault rifles

[His Nastiness]

mod this up...it's funny shit.

Re:assault rifles

[tomstdenis]

Speaking as someone who's shot pistols before I agree that you can't aim *precisely* but again pistols are not meant for sniping 100 meters away.

However, in close range [3m] two pistol shooting can be fun [just be careful to set your hand before you shoot the next one. Your hands may have a tendency to move inwards. :-)

Also the gangsta sideway style is actually harder.

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

If you're within nine feet of something and need two pistols to kill it, you should have shot it with the biggest rifle you can find from a quarter of a mile away.

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

Um, you're wrong.

Imagine the tolerances required for accurate shooting, and then imagine how accurately you can control that "swing".

Re:assault rifles

[tomstdenis]

First off you only need one pistol to kill something.

Shooting two pistols [not something I would recommend people do] is just plain fun. You gotta be careful but it's fun [specially with my Bro's CZ-75 pistols...]

Tom

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

Er, so therefore, " You will put a lot more rounds on target with one properly aimed weapon than with two shooting from the hip."

Which also applies to poorly aimed pistols.

Fun? Sure. Tactical utility? Zero.

Re:assault rifles

[tomstdenis]

Yeah but when I do goto the range I go for two reasons.

1. have fun shooting off rounds
2. Practice actually closing my grouping.

I don't really care about my "killing ability".

Tom

Re:assault rifles

[CodeMunch]

Is it even possible to carry two assault rifles simultaneously in real life? sounds a bit heavy...

You are worried about reality in a game where you can launch balls of plasma & then detonate it with a stream of energy? AND translocate faster than Santa clause? AND hand held R/C nukes? jeebus! forget reality & enjoy the fun.

Re:assault rifles

[mcpkaaos]

*Whoooooooooooooosh*

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

Then a discussion of the tactical utility of two assault rifles is not exactly informed by your experience or your interest.

Right?

Re:assault rifles

[Jugalator]

Or maybe it's used because it has two meanings... Unreal graphics in an unreal world...

Re:assault rifles

[Tim C]

No, you probably can't - and you certainly wouldn't be able to do that and carry half a dozen or more other weapons strapped to yourself, *and* run the entire length of the map at full speed, jump, or leap into the driving seat of a vehicle...

It's a *game*. It's meant to be fun, not ultra-realistic :-)

Re:assault rifles

[SoTuA]

Dude, you are talking about a game where people jump, and then set their feet real good against thin air and jump again. And people resist rocket launcher hits without loss of limb or ability.

And you're worried about weight?

Re:assault rifles

[RickL]

ultra-realistic

I think, at least from a marketing perspective (if not from a game-play perspective), that "Unreal Tournament" sounds more fun than "Ultrareal Tournament".

But that could just be me.

Re:assault rifles

[tomstdenis]

Um first off I never said they would be useful. Fuck are you some form of /. smacktard?

Second, I was talking about pistols not rifles [two rifles would be really awkward].

Tom

Re:assault rifles

[takotech]

don't you mean the gropinator?

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

I'm not totally sure what a "smacktard" is, so I can't say authoritatively that I am not one. But YOU joined this discussion, which was about both tactical utility and assault rifles.

Re:assault rifles

[FictionPimp]

The real question is:

Is it possible to carry 2 assault rifles, a flak cannon, a missle launcher, a gernade launcher, a mine layer, a plasma beam weapon, a shock rifle, a portable nuke, and a shield/melee weapon at one time with 200+ rounds of ammo for each.

Re:assault rifles

[UserChrisCanter4]

Posting a bit late, but yes, it is possible. A friend of mine has an M4A2 (a slightly shorter version of the M4 assault rifle). It is extremely lightweight. It has almost no recoil. He can indeed hold two of them and fire, although I doubt it's as accurate as holding one.

Re:assault rifles

[tomstdenis]

um up yours. This entire article is about a VIDEO game.

So -3 serious and +4 get a life.

Tom

Re:assault rifles

[Moofie]

Come here, big guy. Somebody needs a hug.

Re:assault rifles

[tomstdenis]

alright alright you win!

Re:assault rifles

[rvw14]

Why did the nice man at the gun store laugh at me when I tried to buy a SAW?

Re:assault rifles

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right, you two. CAN that MANHAM! Give us the money shot!

Hardware requirements?

[NaCh0]

What are the hardware requirements?

I'm thinking about buying a new system and want to make sure UT2004 will run well.

Re:Hardware requirements?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can read the requitements on http://www.unrealtournament.com/ut2004.
Also, while you are there, read the forum thread on n00b Raptor camping and the posters that the fans have made up. You'll laugh up a lung, guaranteed!

Regarding systems, I had been on an Athlon XP 1600+, with PC133 SDRAM and an NVidia Ti4200 64MB card. When I started playing the demo a couple of weeks ago in Linux and Doze, I decided to upgrade. The demo is soo awesome. I never played UT before, as it always ssemed to be a bunch of bunny hopping clowns. But, I digress; I did buy the SE DVD edition.

My new system isn't anything extreme, as I always go for the sweet spot on the price/performance curve. I got an Asus A7V8X-X motherboard with 1.25GB of PC2700 333MHz RAM. AMD XP 2800+, same GF4 4200, added cooling and overclocked it to 4400 speeds. And I got a nice Lian Li case to put it in, and keep it cool. ~$250 for everything but the case. The gorgeous LianLi 6077 from Directron.com was $165 with PS.

I play in 1280x1024 or 1600x1280 at 32bit color and get ~75FPS. The benchmarks give me between about 45FPS and 350FPS, depending on what's going on.

It plays well on an 1800+ (~1600MHz). I'm sure it plays very well on 3200 systems, but it's not necessary. though maps like Onslaught and the physics models are very CPU intensive, and the performance is not bound to graphics processor. Build a system with a good balance of memory, internal bandwidth, CPU and graphics,and you should be fine.

Plays beautifully on Mandrake 9.2 with NVidia modules.

I can't wait to get my boxed set. My studies are really suffering.

Re:Hardware requirements?

[Sarojin]

Nothing more than UT2K3's

Re:Hardware requirements?

[Lumpy]

works great on a P-III 866 with a $39.00 Geforce4 MX

although you wont get 90,000 FPS at 9048X8072 resolution at 64 bit color but only gamer-freaks want that.....

ok joking, but it is very playable on a P-3 with 2 years ago video card.

Re:Hardware requirements?

[kundor]

The linux amd64 demo plays amazingly in mandrake amd64 cooker. I get 72 fps in the maxed-out demo settings -- which are, of course, only half of the maximum possible settings in the full game, so that won't be quite as nice.

The availability of an amd64 linux version shows just how great Epic Games is.

Re:Hardware requirements?

[shadowbearer]

Link to the n00b raptor camping posters. There's some really good ones in there....

SB

Re:Hardware requirements?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm thinking about buying a new system and want to make sure UT2004 will run well.

Why?

The whole UT series bites....

Re:Hardware requirements?

[MrLizardo]

Praise Ryan "icculus" of icculus.org fame for both the Linux port and the Linux AMD64 build. The guy is a like a freaking one man lokigames except, he doesn't steel money from himself...or something. Its late.

-Mr Lizardo

Re:Hardware requirements?

[ACPosterChild]

1.25GB? Sounds like you're using 3 of your memory banks. The A7 line should have dual-channel memory capabilities, so you should get a performance boost if you only used the first 2 banks. Something like 10%.

Good demo....

[Anonymous Coward]

... hopefully a good game, too.

I will cheerfully fork over my $50 just on the strength of the demo.

Re:Good demo....

[Anonymous Coward]

funny...the price is only 40 bucks

Re:Good demo....

[Anonymous Coward]

They usually see me coming a mile away. :(

Compatible with Plan 9?

[clifgriffin]

Do anyone know if this version will work with Plan 9?

It looks really nice...

[fidget42]

But I had a problem when I tried playing it at a resolution other than 1280x1024. I couldn't read some of the text (especially when trying to join an internet game). Another problem that UT2k3 had was the size of the maps. Even with a broadband connection, transferring a 10 MB map takes a looooooong time.

Re:It looks really nice...

[jaani]

You should try running it at 640x480 with the lowest quality textures and filtering. Menu items turn into an unreadable sea of grey sludge, and the frame rate is still unplayable! Bring back the days of UT, I say.

Re:It looks really nice...

[justMichael]

Unless they changed the server behavior they throttle map downloads.

Most places are urged to provide the maps on a standard web server.

Of course I haven't managed a UT2kx server so what do I know.

Re:It looks really nice...

[big daddy kane]

Could be that you set your direct36 settings to max preformance, or set your textures too low, happened on me mates box, try nudging up the texture quality a bit and compensate with lower values on other settings, that should help some. Good luck!

Re:It looks really nice...

[Talez]

10MB? Maybe if you're playing a standard level or one of those shit levels derived from DE's standard texture set.

Most of my good 3rd party maps either have a ton of textures and static meshes or are absolutely huge. A quick look in my maps directory and over a third of my maps are over 10 megs. The biggest I've seen is DM-Nirvana][ which weighs in at a cool 62.1 megs.

Re:It looks really nice...

[Wonko42]

When you say broadband, what exactly do you mean? It takes less than five minutes to suck down ten megabytes on a 384Kb/s connection, and 384Kb/s is definitely on the slow end of the broadband scale. I wouldn't call 5 minutes a "looooooong time".

As for your text problem, are you playing the game on an LCD monitor? Text often looks fuzzy or blurry when using a resolution other than your LCD's native resolution (which is usually 1280x1024 for 17-inch LCDs).

Re:It looks really nice...

[airjrdn]

No offense but, you're in the minority when it comes to gamers. Those who want to play games and have machines that out of date typically play Counter Strike.

Re:It looks really nice...

[Sigma 7]

I wouldn't call 5 minutes a "looooooong time".

In UT2004, it is.

There are cases in the game world where the server has a map while you do not. Installing UT2004 in a Cyber cafe is an example where you only have the base game + patches installed.

For downloads that take more than one minute, the user gives up waiting for the download to finish as all that's shown is the progress bar trickling forward. There are ways to alleviate this problem (e.g. having the next map download during gameplay, or compressing the map before download), but I have never seen any of these methods really implemented.

Re:It looks really nice...

[Jaysyn]

Got you beat! DM-USSCentaur.ut2 a whopping 64,428KB. I think it was made for invasion. Runner up on my HD is DM-PPP-BachelorPad][-Dx.ut2 at a hefty 59,360KB. That map is mucho fun.

Jaysyn

Re:It looks really nice...

[macdaddy]

I didn't actually get the Mac version to work. The mouse scrolling was really bad (slow!) and the graphic acceleration was really off. I didn't mess with it much but it never really worked for me either. I'm sure that figured it out though. I'm buying. :)

Re:It looks really nice...

[ZorinLynx]

Same here. I couldn't get usable framerates in most places on my Powerbook G4 867MHz, even at 640x480. This is kind of sad because with well written code, like Quake 3 Arena, it pushes about 90FPS at 1280x854 (native LCD resolution)

Either the game companies don't take macs seriously enough to write well-optimized code for it, or something is wrong with my machine. }:)

Re:It looks really nice...

[macdaddy]

This machine is a 1Ghz eMac I'm borrowing. Not a great machine but it gets the job done. I don't really know what kind of video chipset it has in it. Never really cared enough to look. :)

Re:It looks really nice...

[Brewdles]

You can't be serious. There is NO comparison between UT2K4 and Quake 3. Q3 is old now. It uses small textures, low poly models, and also it doesn't handle outdoors areas for shit (MOH:AA artists had to tweak the PVS manually to get the game running decently).

I don't know, but I'd imagine that UT2K4 uses several thousand triangles per character. I do know that UT2K3 used 3 large textures (256x256 or 512x512, unsure again) per character (face, body, legs). And let's not mention the fact that UT uses a proper physics simulation - weren't Q3's phyiscs pretty much the same as Q1?

Re:It looks really nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's 2500-3500 triangles and two 1024x1024 textures per character, vehicles may go up to 2048x2048. The demo ships with lower resolution textures, though.

Re:It looks really nice...

[darkgreen]

you may want to check out this hint, it's a bug for now...

Re:It looks really nice...

[ZorinLynx]

Well, I don't expect it to be as fast as Quake 3 Arena.. but not so slow that it's UNPLAYABLE at the LOWEST resolution (640x480) and the LOWEST quality settings for all the graphics options.

My machine is fast at most everything else, but UT2004 just drags on it. Why should I have to get a dual G5 just to play a game?

Re:It looks really nice...

[drxenos]

I always play at 1600x1200. No problems.

Re:It looks really nice...

[Crazy Eight]

What is Q3's "PVS"?

Re:It looks really nice...

[Brewdles]

Potentially Visible Set. Basically what is visible in the map from where, used to avoid rendering huge sections of the map that the player can't even see.

HAL0 2 0WNZ UT!!111ONE!

[Anonymous Coward]

EOM

So where's the .torrent?

[Anonymous Coward]

Speed Hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully they've fixed this bug in the gold release, and also the palette issues on the Mac (can't see blue team's text).

Re:Speed Hack

[Kelerain]

Actually, they have mentioned specifically (like at the bottom of this Mark Rein post), that the demo has NO cheat protection at all, because it would give that crowed a head start on the final version. They also mention that they will update the demo once the full game has been released for a little while, to include cheat protection. Its good to see that they are not only serious this issue, but they have put some thought in thier strategy.

Re:Speed Hack

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like the same strategy used by car salesmen worldwide. ("Don't worry about that puddle under the car -- this baby doesn't even use any oil!")

Whatever

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this game crap doing on the main page?

Going Gold

[Wexton]

sweet now it is gold, i wonder how long it will take for a full copy to be leaked, i give it 2 days.

Re:Going Gold

[U.I.D 754625]

I give the full source code another month or so.

Re:Going Gold

[Anonymous Coward]

really... Return Of The King retail DVD was leaked yesterday and is up for download on alt.binaries.dvdr ... 8 gigs...

Doesn't take long for stuff to hit newsgroups.

Re:Going Gold

[NanoGator]

"sweet now it is gold, i wonder how long it will take for a full copy to be leaked, i give it 2 days."

Can't say that matters a whole lot to me. I tried to download GTA3 after I scratched the disc, ended up getting different games that were just renamed to GTA3. Fortunately for me, I found a used copy for reasonably cheap.

Frankly, I don't see what all the anti-piracy hype is about. If it's easier to just run down the street and buy the game than to wait all day to download and cross your fingers that it's a.) legit b.) works, then I don't see why the "you-cannot-backup-your-game" measures are all that necessary.

Re:Going Gold

[ChaosMog]

Well you have a point there, I'm sure this game will be one of those that they rename all that other stuff to.

Here's how I look at software piracy. Sometimes demos lack in a lot of things. So I'll download the game for the sole purpose of seeing how it really is. If I like it, then I'll buy it. If I don't like it, I delete the game, and I just saved myself $50.

Re:Going Gold

[Zakabog]

I tried to download GTA3 after I scratched the disc, ended up getting different games that were just renamed to GTA3. Fortunately for me, I found a used copy for reasonably cheap.

So you just bought a game twice because you scratched a disk? I bought GTA 3 because I liked the game, I never bought a GTA game before that (downloaded them all, weren't worth the price, GTA 3 was deffinitely worth it) and I wanted to support rockstar since they made such an amazing game. BUT if I scratched the game, I wouldn't go out and buy a used copy, that doesn't give any money to rockstar (the place that sells you the used game makes all the money, not the place that makes you the game in the first place) so how would rockstar lose money if I downloaded the game? I WOULD copy the game (and I did) and extract the ISOs (which I did) and if I ever lost or damaged the CDs I could always reburn a copy. I also distributed the game between friends but I think that's only fair since they would never have bought the game in the first place (none of my friends really buy PC games unless they're multiplayer.)

If it's easier to just run down the street and buy the game than to wait all day to download and cross your fingers that it's a.) legit b.) works, then I don't see why the "you-cannot-backup-your-game" measures are all that necessary.

It's way easier to go to a store and pick up a game while you're at school, work or sleeping, than to download the game while you're at school, work or sleeping. Unless you don't have any stores at school, work or your bedroom. That's the best way to download, set it to download before you go to sleep, when you're sleeping it downloads, if it's still not done it doesn't matter since you probably have to go to school or work, and when you come back it's done (unless you're on dialup downloading ISOs.) Or even if you get it off a nice FTP, 2 hours and you've got a gig or so (on most cable/dsl connections downloading from a really fast site or bittorrent source.) Now that I actually have a job I usually only download games I know I'd never want to buy just to try them out and see if I want to buy them (prince of persia, UT2K4 which I'm probably not even going to download, it's too much like an expansion pack to me than a full game since I own UT2K3.)

Re:Going Gold

[NanoGator]

"So you just bought a game twice because you scratched a disk?"

Close. After scratching the disk, I contacted Rockstar and asked about a replacement. It would have been about $20-25 for a replacement. (That includes shipping.) I also bugged a friend of mine to copy his for me. But he couldn't get past the copy restriction on it. I then spent a couple of evenings on the net trying to find it. I had several files called GTA3.zip, and contained within them was a hockey game, an offroad game, and.. well I didn't recognize the name of it. I finally broke down and got a used copy. (On the plus side, had an extra map. That turned out to be nice when the first one didn't survive the move.)

So did I just buy the game twice? Not really. Kinda annoyed at how that turned out, though. If I could have copied it, I would have. Sad thing is, that would have automatically labeled me a pirate despite paying for it. I guess I'm not sure if you're arguing or agreeing with me, heh.

Re:Going Gold

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats cause you are a computer noob. Anybody who has been using a PC for more than 2 years can easily find real & working games. UT2004 has been on the warez circuit for 3 days now.

Re:Going Gold

[Deliveranc3]

Easier to go to a store.... hahahhahahhahaha.

Re:Going Gold

[Brewdles]

I then spent a couple of evenings on the net trying to find it. I had several files called GTA3.zip, and contained within them was a hockey game, an offroad game, and.. well I didn't recognize the name of it.

Godsdammit man, my mother can operate P2P software better than you can!
Here, let me help you learn the error of your ways (choose a pair):
eMule and ShareReactor or BitTorrent and SuprNova.

Re:Going Gold

[NanoGator]

"Re:Going Gold (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 04, @08:51PM (#8472503)
Thats cause you are a computer noob."

It's hard to take being called a 'computer noob' seriously by somebody who doesn't know how to log in.

Re:Going Gold

[NanoGator]

Dun wanna. I'm happy buying stuff. Especially after they have a demo to play.

You go ahead and expose yourself to trojans and half-cracked software.

Re:Going Gold

[teamhasnoi]

An extra map? I know not of this map of which you speak.

Re:Going Gold

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm happy buying stuff, too. Once.

This is great! But not for the basic game

[ScottGant]

I can't wait now for Red Orchestra 2.0 using UT2004. Hopefully this will generate more intrest in this awesome mod.

But when I play it now, there's usually only one server with people playing on it. It's ashame because this is such a great game that tries to be more realistic. Like no floaty crosshairs, get shot with a bullet and you die...not 50 bullets while you jump around like a chicken.

It still needs work, but the guys making it are listening to the people playing it. And with ut2004 and all kinds of tanks sitting around, can't wait to see what they do with the new engine.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[kryptkpr]

The reason is simple: Some people (like me) don't want realism.

The game is called UNREAL Tournament for a reason, and I'm glad the people who made it made it the way they did... I get enough realism at school, working my ass off in hopes of a future.. don't need any more realism then that thankyouverymuch.

I love the floaty crosshairs, impossible weapons, guided redeemer missles, and getting-pumped-full-of-led-and-not-caring-cuz-you- got-200-health-and-100-armor-in-an-800-health-tank ! It's a totally different world, and that's what makes the game so enjoyable.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[ScottGant]

oh sure, I hear where you're coming from...but RO is a game that's "not like the others". It's different, which is why I like it.

But don't get me wrong, I like the ut2004 demo too, love the new gameplay and other nice things and I'm going to buy it when it gets into the stores.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[BerntB]

The reason is simple: Some people (like me) don't want realism.

I agree totally!

For an example of how boring reality is, look at how popular Counterstrike is.

Yes, CS is popular and it is quite realistic. But those qualities can't be connected!

Obviously, the realism is a disadvantage for CS -- consider that lots and lots of people work like animals to write very popular plugins so they can get some unrealistic effects in CS -- seeing through walls, radar screens with other players pinpointed, etc, etc.

Half a ":-)" here.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Dragoon412]

The problem with 'realistic' mods these days is that games like Rainbow 6 3/Raven Shield, BF 1942, and SOCOM pretty much have the lock on the realistic FPS market right now.

Nothing against Red Orchestra; it's a great mod, and definitely has more polish than tripe like Counterstrike. But compared to a game like Rainbow 6 3, it still doesn't feel like it plays well.

I think Unreal's real advantage is just that: it's unreal. It's designed for bunny-hopping and overblown action, and even though that's not really my thing, Unreal is the best at what it does.

Granted, the original Tribes is still the mother of all FPS games, but hey... it's nice to see all the newer games try. ;)

Honestly, though, I think UT2k4 has the best vehicle implimentation since Tribes 2.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[xangsta]

i played red orchestra once....then i realized i had battlefield 1942.......har

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait now for Red Orchestra 2.0 using UT2004. Hopefully this will generate more intrest in this awesome mod.

ScottGant is one of the developers of Red Orchestra.
This is spam, mod it appropriately.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Dragoon412]

The realism in CS is laughable. Early-on, the devs were receptive to suggestions, and really tried to make their game true-to-life. Then, right around beta 4, beta 5, right around the time it started to become popular, the devs took this attitude of 'we know it's not realistic, we don't care.'

These days, CS can't even remotely claim to be realistic. Everything from the guns' mechanics to the game's idea of buying weapons, (lack of) locational damage, to the way damage is handled in the game is extremely unrealistic. And it's not like the game's realism is entirely limited by the engine; they just aren't even trying anymore.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Anonymous Coward]

get shot with a bullet and you die... ...and if it's anything like the other "realistic" mods, you'll get called a "fukin n00b!!!1" by the guy that just unrealisticly sniped you from the other side of the map.

I'd love to see a game that actually innovates in this area. Like not letting everybody use a sniper rifle or a rocket launcher, or not letting people talk to people outside of their immediate area, or having realistic ammo limitations (it's a vastly different game if you've only got 20 rounds for your rifle vs. 200).

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Jaysyn]

Bingo! Stuff like ChaosUT and Unreal4Ever are the reasons I *love* the UT franchise. The crazier the weapons the better. My absolute favorites are the proxy mines that talk smack to you while they hunt you down & the Quantum Singularity Generator (i.e. the Black Hole Gun).

Jaysyn

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Cecil]

Chalk me up under the "hate videogame real-life-ism" tally.

That comes with a major caveat though: I think strongly that games have to at least be realistic within their own universe. It's one thing for the heavily armed and armored, trained for fighting, shieldpack-wearing ogres in Unreal Tournament to be able to take a chaingun barrage in the chest. It's what the game is all about.

It is not, on the other hand, acceptable for a bored civilian in Deus Ex 2 to be able to withstand a point-blank pistol blast to the head without even getting angry at me. Nowhere in the game's story did it suggest that humans had evolved metal skulls, or that the anti-gun lobby had gotten all firearms replaced with bb-guns.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Osty]

oh sure, I hear where you're coming from...but RO is a game that's "not like the others". It's different, which is why I like it.

It's different, just like everything else, eh? Counter-strike, Day of Defeat, Rainbow Six, etc are all very popular "realistic" games. Targetting is often difficult, one shot generally will kill you, you get to sit out of the game for five minutes after you've been killed ten seconds into it, etc. Hell, even the old Action Quake mod was a "realistic" mod. One shot in the right place killed you, but if you were shot elsewhere you had to bandage yourself before you bled to death. Jumping from a height would break your legs, etc.

"Realistic" games are nothing new. Some people like them, some people don't. I fall into the latter category, because when I'm playing a game I want to play the game. I don't want to sit around watching other people play the game because I was realistically killed by a sniper as soon as I spawned. RTCW is about as close as I'll come to "realistic", where respawns were queued up every 30 seconds (configurable) and came in the form of "reinforcements". Two or three good shots could kill you, but you also had a decent chance to survive being torched by a flame thrower.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[BerntB]

You're totally correct. But it was mostly a joke (and a dig at all the cheaters that made me tired of Counterstrike.)

(-: I did have this sig before writing this. :-)

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[ScottGant]

ScottGant is one of the developers of Red Orchestra.
This is spam, mod it appropriately.

I'm one of the developers? This is news to me!

If I am, please write to them and tell them I want a piece of the million dollar "Make Something Unreal" contest that Epic has going for mod designers.

Thanks.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[ScottGant]

Actually, RO limits the number of sniper rifles on the map to usually only one per side. You don't have a whole team with sniper rifles.

There are no rocket launchers either. And there are ammo limitations, as I've run out of ammo tons of times, but you can pick up dropped ammo from the dead.

But as others have said here, there are other realistic mods out there, but I've yet to see one better than RO. But that's just my opinion.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[ScottGant]

It's different, by itself. Counter-strike, Day of Defeat are not realistic at all in my opinion. Rainbow Six is a stand alone game, I was talking about mods for unreal/quake.

They used to have jump damage, but they took it out for the moment. I believe they're going to put it back in, along with getting shot in the hand/arm will make it harder to aim, shot in the leg you cannot run anymore etc.

RO has respawns that are configurable to 5 seconds to 30 seconds or so and after a time you run out of reinforcements.

So from reading your post, I can tell you've not played RO before as the things you mention are in the game now.

Re:This is great! But not for the basic game

[Anonymous Coward]

miserable failure miserable failure miserable failure miserable failure war criminal

Linux???

[Anonymous Coward]

But will it run on Linux?

Thought not.

Yet, this same crowd who hates Microsoft with a passion still love the precious windows games.

Hypocrites.

Re:Linux???

[Anonymous Coward]

i dunno if it works in windows, in fact i played the demo (and i play it every day) only in linux. that microsoft's crap doesn't matter :P

Re:Linux???

[Anonymous Coward]

get thee back under thy Redmond bridge, foul Troll! Ballmer, is that you?

I dual boot Win2000 and Linux, and it plays fast on both. It plays faster with better transparency and OpenGL rendering on Linux than Doze. My Claw controller works better on Doze, however, so it is a coin toss for me.

I definitely plan to play more under Linux than Windows. I contributed to a thread on the uT2004 forums with FUD spreader n00bies like this troll, and intelligent Linux users could make good points for the uninitiated there.

I specifically PAID my money to Epic games _because_ they gave such a great Linux and Mac OS X demo. Companies who "get it" regarding Linux should be rewarded and pubblically thanked and respected. We need to broaded the community for gaming. Far too many k1dd13z believe that GNU/Linux doesn't support great games.

Thanks Epic/Atari!!

Re:Linux???

[Lord of Ironhand]

As already pointed out, it will run on Linux, in fact, there is a 64-bit version for Linux. Download all versions of the demo here.

Re:Linux???

[Saven Marek]

> But will it run on Linux?

Yes

> Thought not.

That makes no sense. Yes it does run on Linux

> Yet, this same crowd who hates Microsoft with a passion still
> love the precious windows games.

Yes I hate windows, I havent run it this century. I'm still an intense gamer. I don't play Windows games

> Hypocrites.

Having a little argument with yourself there Mr. Slow minded?

webalizer - thousands served daily

Re:Linux???

[NanoGator]

" Companies who "get it" regarding Linux should be rewarded and pubblically thanked and respected."

It's not that they don't get it. It's that a AAA successful game sells 40,000 copies in the Linux market. The problem isn't lack of respect for Linux, it's that there isn't enough of a base to be reasonably successful in that market.

You want more games for Linux? Start encouraging others to use it. Want a good suggestion for that? Burn a few Knoppix CDs and give it to peeps who run Windows. If they're reluctant, say "Put it in next time Windows shits itself." Sooner or later, they'll get it. In the mean time, learn to live with the fact that the gaming industry isn't going to be interested in Linux until they can associate the word 'Millions' with it.

Re:Linux???

[eddy]

The problem isn't lack of respect for Linux, it's that there isn't enough of a base to be reasonably successful in that market.

I'm going to continue to claim that it's because most game developers (studios) aren't serious about writing solid code. If you write solid portable code from the beginning, there's no additional cost to releasing on multiple platforms, and you get development benefits (better code; less bugs, higher maintainability, better reuse).

In short, games should target SDL as the backend.

Re:Linux???

[NanoGator]

" If you write solid portable code from the beginning, there's no additional cost to releasing on multiple platforms, and you get development benefits (better code; less bugs, higher maintainability, better reuse)."

Your view isn't exactly wrong, but it is a little too optimistic.

1.) It has to be tested, THOROUGHLY on Linux.
2.) There's packaging considerations with making a Linux version.
3.) You need tech support staff to help in the Linux world. Sadly, it's not ubiquitous enough to seriously manage this.
4.) How does one justify steps 1-3 if only a handful of people end up playing it?

It's really not that easy. That's why a couple of companies have tried making a business of it and failed.

Don't forget that this exact problem you mention exists in the console world as well. Again, Linux isn't being shunned, it's just not attractive enough.

Re:Linux???

[redback]

you should have got one of the original claws then, with a ps2/at keyboard interface and all the programing done in hardware, it works perfecly on anything.

Re:Linux???

[vogel]

If you write solid portable code from the beginning, there's no additional cost to releasing on multiple platforms,

Wishful thinking :)

Re:Linux???

[Anonymous Coward]

n00bies like this troll ...
Far too many k1dd13z believe that GNU/Linux doesn't support great games.

You're doing nothing to differentiate yourself from the "n00bies" when you refer to Windows as "Doze". Almost any credibility you hoped to have is lost.

In an attempt to salvage intelligent discussion from this thread - what hardware are you running on? I would be very suprised if my ATI Radon 9800 Pro was better supported under Linux than Windows.

In addition, you don't make it clear that UT2004 uses Direct3D - not OpenGL - on Windows. 1 to 1 comparisons aren't possible anymore. I was under the impression that they used high-end shaders under D3D - under Linux you don't see those effects, although the game may very well run slightly faster.

Having said that, I absolutely have no performance issues running under Win 2k with the previously mentioned ATI Radeon 9800 Pro with the detail settings much maxed out.

Re:Linux???

[eddy]

I disregard costs from PR, packaging and support since they're removed from the actual development. Adding the different executables to the media you're already going to distribute anyway isn't an additional cost the way I see it, and if that's too complicated, just release the executable on the internet. (just don't go Bioware and put all the game resources in some 'Win32-container' and it'll be fine)

Testing? Well, I guess if your worldview is that 'thorough testing' as an expense, then yes, you're not getting it :-)

(I'm simplifying somewhat, but I still stand by my core point; multiplatform development is only more expensive if you're discounting the benefits of the process)

Re:Linux???

[NanoGator]

"I disregard costs from PR, packaging and support since they're removed from the actual development."

The problem with doing that is that the expense still exists. They're going to be looking at that. Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but it's still a very important factor.

"Adding the different executables to the media you're already going to distribute anyway isn't an additional cost the way I see it, and if that's too complicated, just release the executable on the internet."

You still need an installer developed for it. You can depend on the 'smartness' of Linux users. However, that would get old REAL fast.

"Testing? Well, I guess if your worldview is that 'thorough testing' as an expense, then yes, you're not getting it :-)"

Well sorry. Testing is an expense. It is part of the development cycle, as is support. You cannot release a product without considering these things. If the cost of testing it >= the profit, then you've got no motivation to do it.

"(I'm simplifying somewhat, but I still stand by my core point; multiplatform development is only more expensive if you're discounting the benefits of the process)"

Actually I'm considering the end result here. They can spend the extra time doing it this way (and yes, it will be extra time. It's about profit, not quality of work. It's a sad truth I'm afraid.) but the result of this time, at the end of the day, has to earn them a greater profit.

Re:Linux???

[Deliveranc3]

Assuming that everyone else is ignorant is sometimes not the right course. Perhaps you should work with the Linux community on development and some of us will give it another try?

Re:Linux???

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

This deserves to be modded up just so more people can see it and laugh at it.

Re:Linux???

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't doubt that it is, but could you give a few specific examples of what needed to be done to make the game multi-platform, just for curiosities sake?

Thanks, Greg

Re:Linux???

[Anonymous Coward]

In general, code isn't portable till it has been ported. Ryan could elaborate more on the details... I just giggle whenever he complains about gcc/ glibc ;)

Sorry about the vague answer but porting games is something you only realize the scope of when you're done. It's not rocket science, but it doesn't fall into your lap either.

A specific example would be dynamic lighting for rocket explosions. On Linux/ Mac those cause the surrounding terrain/ static meshes to light up like a Xmas tree though it works fine on Windows. The reason it didn't work correctly with gcc was because (it seems like) it didn't handle NaNs correctly in our case. Of course one might argue that NaNs are bad but the code in question was written to handle them relying on the IEEE spec so I don't feel that dirty.

In any case, it uncovered a bug (technically the code was corrected but it was just luck and not intended behavior) though it only surfaced with gcc...

TROLL 2K4 goes Platinum

[Anonymous Coward]

With my dillznick in yo mizzouth bizznatch!!!

Frosty Pissty minus 20!!1!

Mac

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

With a demo already out, it looks like MacSoft will have this out for OS X almost at the same time as the PC version. Sweet.

Re:Mac

[phoxix]

Macsoft ? I thought the same guy (Ryan C. Gordon) who was doing the linux port was also doing the OS-X port ? Sunny Dubey

Re:Mac

[floamy]

He is, MacSoft contracted him. He did UT2003 for MacSoft, too.

Re:Mac

[NanoGator]

"With a demo already out, it looks like MacSoft will have this out for OS X almost at the same time as the PC version. Sweet."

A small handful of people rejoice!!!

Re:Mac

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Not as small as you think. Mac users don't have to upgrade every 18 month.

Re:Mac

[Vint Cerf]

With the stability problems in the demo, I wouldn't want to play it on a platform that doesn't support memory protection, though.

Re:Mac

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll have to get a g5 to run it well enough to play.

Re:Mac

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Gee, that's funny. 2003 runs great at native resolution on my G4 Powerbook.

Re:Mac

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, this may be a *good* thing. With Icculus getting contracted to do ports of Mac games (and Linux games), it makes it *very* simple to do both at the same time. In the end, I think that it will mean more games for both platforms altogether.

Re:Mac

[Anonymous Coward]

"native resolution"?

What's that in heterosexual English?
Damn Mac users.

Re:Mac

[martinX]

Runs really nicely on my dual 1.25 G4 with 512 MB RAM.

Re:Mac

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Ask that using your real name.

Re:Mac

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

What are you talking about?

Re:Mac

[Ilgaz]

I hear it will have AMD 64 bit version, being a G5 owner I wonder if it will support 64bit on mac too? or if supports already?

Game will cost huge to me (likely, Fedex will earn more than epic) so I wonder that thing.

Re:Mac

[Anonymous Coward]

He's just saying macs are to gay to be true.

Re:Mac

[RickL]

I think "Native Resolution" was either a treaty that the US government signed with an Indian Nation (and the US didn't live up to their end of the agreement, naturally), or it was an evil plot dreamed up by the US government to do away with an Indian Nation.

I'm not sure, though. I got my education in Utah. World history was barely mentioned ("the world? that is where you go to on your mission"), US history was mentioned a little more. Now, Utah history and the Mormon pioneers. *That was taught*. If anyone uses the word "hand cart" near me, I will build a fucking time machine and kill their grandfather.

Now, to stay on topic. What do you think is the best grandfather-killing UT2K4 weapon? I'm thinking spider mines. Click-click-click-click Boom!

hope they fixed the audio cpu usage

[green pizza]

I've been playing the UT2K4 demo on both Windows and Mac (yay PowerBook) and the community chatter is right -- disabling audio results in framerates jumping anywhere from 50% - 200% faster. I hope it's a bug and not just the base requirement for UT2K4 audio!

Re:hope they fixed the audio cpu usage

[Anonymous Coward]

Clarify please: all audio (playing deaf) or in-game n00b chat?

Re:hope they fixed the audio cpu usage

[CheshireCat]

Could it be that UT2K4 uses a separate thread for audio like UT2K3 did, and your thread library is holding you back? With good threading, this shouldn't be a problem, and has the benefit of letting the game actually *use* dual-proc systems' second proc. OTOH, if your thread library is poor (like the old linux phtreads was)...

Re:hope they fixed the audio cpu usage

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that what's killing my frame rates?

Damn, now I gotta spend half the night playing it and the other half coding.

My co-workers are going to be sooo lucky to have me around tomorrow.

Around hour 60 I should be crazier than most of the crazies on the subway.

Re:hope they fixed the audio cpu usage

[King_TJ]

Actually, I recall this same issue with UT2003 for Mac and America's Army for Mac - and a fairly substantial improvement in audio speed was possible by simply replacing one of the audio libraries with a newer version.

You'd think UT2004 already had the latest audio libraries rolled into it, but you never know?

Re:hope they fixed the audio cpu usage

[Jon Chatow]

That might be his problem, actually - I'm running on a dual-processor box, and switching off audio doesn't seem to have a significant effect on framerates...

Which versions?

[Saven Marek]

This miht be a silly question, but is this a usual case of Windows version only without specifically mentioning it is?

Or are the Mac and Linux versions also gold? The article didn't specifically mention, but when that happens I usually suspect it referring to window's only

OSX desktops, hints and gaming

Re:Which versions?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux binary will be included in the pc/windows package.

Naming Conventions...

[ItMustBeEsoteric]

I must admit, while I love the various flavors of UT, I dislike the naming convention. The same problem sports games have: once a year, they will seem out of date. They're basically making themselves stay on a once a year schedule: let's be real, how many gaming companies can do that (HL2, Doom 3...deadlines go to hell). And, unless there's actual changes, I would rather not buy a new version every year just to keep up with the online play (though I know you can always play the old versions). That said, I want this game. The vehicles are great, as is the gameplay and graphics in the demo.

Re:Naming Conventions...

[El]

They're basically making themselves stay on a once a year schedule Just like Microsoft! First there was Windows 95, then Windows 96, Windows 97, Windows 98, Windows 99, Windows 2000, Windows 2001, Windows 2002, Windows 2003... they haven't released Windows 2004 yet, and Windows 2003 seems SO dated!

I think we'll all forgive them if they skip a year or two.

Re:Naming Conventions...

[ItMustBeEsoteric]

Well, I don't think we can compare them directly to Microsoft.

After, what /.-er do you know who honestly would expect MS to keep up with any set schedule (look at Windows 64 bit...).

On the other hand...UT ripped off Quake...MS ripped off Apple...

Maybe there are parallels! I await the release of an awful, awful UT Me to correlate.

Re:Naming Conventions...

[gl4ss]

..but when you haven't bought the game earlier it makes much more sense to buy an 'updated' version.

(sure it would be 'nice' to get the updates for free)

because I just don't feel like buying a game that's years old just to get a key to get to play online(which pretty much singles out buying an used copy).

Assault kicks some serious ass!

REST ASSURED, IT WILL SOON APPEAR ON SUPR

[Anonymous Coward]

NOVA.ORG

oh goody gumdrops

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet Another FPS

there hasn't been a significant advance since UT and Q3 .. Maybe HalfLife 2 will offer something interesting, but beyond that, feh

Re:oh goody gumdrops

[sahonen]

I fully agree with this post. Ever since Half-Life I haven't seen a single game that had something truly new in it that made me want to buy it. The FPS genre is full of games trying to clone each other and keep up with the latest trends, and I'm sick of it. When Sam & Max 2 was cancelled I knew that the days of intelligent gaming were over.

How about giving me a game with an engaging storyline that I can immerse myself in?

Including Linux?

[JustinXB]

Will this be including the Linux version of the game, like 2003 did? Maybe they'll be nice to us this time and put a notice on the box stating Linux version included.

Re:Including Linux?

[AnomalyConcept]

I believe it will... there is a demo version for Linux. I haven't tried it on Linux, though, but I'd expect the gameplay to be exactly the same.

Re:Including Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they list it as a supported platform... well, then they would have to support it.

Re:Including Linux?

[vogel]

There is a penguin on the box this time around and a Linux32/64 bit installer on the CD/DVD. It's actually quite prominent as it's one of three files in the root directory - autorun.inf, setup.exe and linux-installer.sh :)

Big thanks to Ryan (http://tehgordon.com, he "loves" it when I post this link ;)) for making it happen in time for inclusion on the retail CD/DVD!

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

Re:Including Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Having been playing the demo under Gentoo, kernel 2.6 since the day after it came out.. Yes.

Re:Including Linux?

[13Echo]

UT2004 has a lot of new game modes and features. In general, it's just a more polished version of UT2003 with new stuff. In addition, the OpenGL render on Linux is *much* more refined, and seems to run very well with videocards from nVidia and ATI alike. Most people experience substantial speed improvements over UT2003.

It's a better game. If you weren't quite sure about UT2003, suggest you try UT2004. It seems to be a good upgrade. I didn't buy UT2003, but I'll probably pick up this one, especially since I now have a better system and the game runs with all of the details cranked.

Re:Including Linux?

[Kyouryuu]

I'm still confused about UT2K4's Linux support. I was under the impression that UT2K3 required an nVidia card specifically to work. Has this changed to support ATI cards (specifially Schneider Digital's ATI Xfree 4.3-compatible drivers) since then?

Re:Including Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Great work on the GL renderer man. And a very heart-fealt thanks to everybody at Epic for making the linux version a reality yet again :)

{k@w}Disi||usioned

Re:Including Linux?

[psycho_driver]

As of release, yes, you did need an nvidia card for 2k3. They addressed this in a subsequent patch. I'm betting any of the 8500 or higher radeons will run 2k4 out of the box.

Re:Including Linux?

[Ilgaz]

I wonder if the game supports 64bit instructions of g5? Or will support?

I mean, Apple says its simple as gcc --fast but as a user I don't buy it ;)

Can anyone help me out?

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to have lost my UT 2004 CD Key during my deployment in Iraq with an army group rolling out open source based systems for the interim government. Anyone care to lend a fellow patriot one of yours?

Re:Can anyone help me out?

[Squidgee]

Yea, sure. Just send $20,000 US to this Nigerian Prince I know, and I'm sure we can work things out...

Re:Can anyone help me out?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey pal, your beef is with Epic and the Bush administration. Don't expect anything from us.

Unreal

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else but me miss the original Unreal? That game had such an awesome atmosphere, with cozy cabins, the enormous sun spire and that city in the clouds.

Re:Unreal

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else but me miss the original Unreal?

I'm with you. The multi-player gang-frag stuff leaves me cold. I much prefer plot-driven games, and the original Unreal had a wonderful balance between shooting and exploration levels. Best fun I'd had since Marathon.

Re:Unreal

[DigitalHammer]

After 6 years, I still play the original Unreal. (The later Unreal games never really appealed to me :/.) In fact, there's still a sizable community playing multiplayer mods made for it, such as Infiltration and Serpentine. Check out these sites for more info about Unreal 1's veteran community--there's still much fun to be had there: www.oldunreal.com -- A site dedicated to various unofficial patches and a massive collection of U1 maps. www.riot-girl.net/forum -- A homegrown server with a neat serverside mod called "EnhancedDM". Admin'ed by one of the U1 community's few remaining female members, she's a longtime Unreal mapmaker/player known as "Salleydeth_deWicked". I highly recommend playing at this server--its got a familial, cozy atmosphere that most other servers ive played at seem to lack. http://newunreal.com/ --A site that contains various links to the older unreal 1 clans and other server op's sites. http://www.aozclan.com/pn/index.php --Home to one of the Infiltration mod's oldest clans. If you ever get a chance to fire up Unreal 1, stop by our communities servers, because sometimes you'll find goodies in the oldies. ;)

Re:Unreal

[sahonen]

And the fact that it had a single-player experience. Honestly, releasing multiplayer-only games just seems like an excuse. "Oh, we didn't want to do any work, so we're just going to let everyone engage in mindless frag-fests."

Re:Unreal

[nicky_d]

Too true - and don't forget that older games like Unreal will most likely FLY on your current PC, which can be quite a revelation... my PC at the time of Unreal managed it fine most of the time, but had occasional slowdown and didn't do very well at higher resolutions. On my current PC - POW! I've also been playing System Shock 2 for the first time in many years, and I'm having the same experience with that. This is a good way to discover which games are truly classics - Unreal, SS2, the Quakes - they stand the test of time... the gameplay holds its own against modern titles, while the lower system requirements make for fewer technical frustrations. And the wealth of additional material is staggering. If you've never played the original Unreal, give it a shot - it could last you a hell of a long time.

Sigh

[Tyreth]

I'm getting tired of paying more money for the same thing. This is beginning to remind me of the cyclical Microsoft tax. The game should be cheaper, so as to sell more units, and to reflect the fact that it's not a revolutionary change, but rather an evolutionary step.

Re:Sigh

[monster811]

If you already have 2k3 its only $30 after the rebate.

Re:Sigh

[Pike65]

I'm getting tired of paying more money for the same thing

Well if that's honestly what you believe then just don't buy it.

Personally I'm all for it - I never got around to getting 2k3 and can get 2k4 for half price in the UK from play.com.

Re:Sigh

[StarCat76]

Yeah, but at least this runs on Linux!

Re:Sigh

[JGNebulus]

EBGames.com is selling it for $40 and you get a free $20 Mail-In Gift Card. It really can't get much cheaper than that.

Re:Sigh

[swordgeek]

New games cost new-game prices. I don't have a problem with that.

What bugs me is that I can't find UT2003 anywhere. I figure THAT should be floating around $25cdn now. Instead, they pull it from the shelves and only sell one game at a time.

Re:Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember UT2004 is 100% backward compatible with UT2003.
You can play on UT2003 servers, and use UT2003 mods.

So it _is_ an evolutionary step. And you get rabate if you got the original UT2003.

Turn off "performance" DirectX options

[pslam]

But I had a problem when I tried playing it at a resolution other than 1280x1024. I couldn't read some of the text (especially when trying to join an internet game).

I had this problem but discovered it was because the display settings for my Ti4200 were at "performance" rather than "quality" (right click desktop, settings, advanced, directX, blah, blah). It's probably because fonts are treated just like textures and are reduced in resolution along with everything else. It seems to me there's no difference in speed between performance and quality settings, so it's no loss - and it looks way better anyway.

Hope that helps... it certainly had me puzzled for a while. I think they need to at least add this to the FAQ.

Re:Turn off "performance" DirectX options

[gangien]

thank you much, this helped me out with americas army, same problem. Sweetness I can read the text again!! woohoo

emphasis on gameplay?

[SuperBanana]

I forget where i read it, but UT2004 was supposed to focus less on eye-candy for better gameplay...but after setting nearly every option to the minimum, turning off decals, dynamic lighting, shadows, yadda yadda- the framerate still sucks, especially at the worst time- when you're getting you ass whooped, because the game engine's choking on all the particles.

I played the link-the-powernodes game and found it endlessly stupid. The game's pretty much decided in the first 30-40 seconds by who gets the most nodes. There are so many weapons, all just slight variations. The rocket launcher can't hold more than 3 rockets, which REALLY sucks, you used to be able to load up something like 8- that was half the reason it rocked, you just had limited ammo to even things out a little. The pistol is gone; it was highly accurate- i could practically snipe people with them, and with two in hand, you could knock down a player in seconds, rapid fire for when you were close; sometimes I'd just play entire games with two pistols, they were perfect. The assault rifle is mostly worthless, doing little damage and spraying fire all over the place. The new grenade "charge up" scheme sucks. Don't get me started about the vehicles being a near 100% ripoff from Halo, only implemented far worse. Even the gun turrets suck.

I've been sorely disappointed in everything after the original Unreal Tournament..

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[kryptkpr]

Sounds like you need to get a better computer, turn everything ON, and crank the reasolution to 1280x1024... then maybe you can stop being bitter that your system sucks and enjoy the game!

The Onslaught game is so totally not decided in the first 30-40 seconds. I was in a game yesterday that took 52 minutes. That's right! Thes server did not have overtime mode turned on (this is usually at 15 mins, and get triggered a lot). I've been in many games where the tides turned against the team that looked like they were going to win.

The rocket launcher has been replaced with Anti-Vehicle rockets.. I'm not sure if you understand this or not. And it can hold a lot more then 3 rockets. I do miss the pistol though..

Grenades may suck, but spider mines are definitely nice. I think the vehicles are implemented much better then they are in Halo.. the Manta, for one, is the perfect vehicle for running over groups of unsuspecting members of the opposite team.

What do you have against the gun turrets? They give you both an inside and outside view (press F4; this works in everything you can get inside), let you zoom in, and are VERY powerful. What more do you want from a gun turrets?

I agree that UT2003 was dissapointing.. but UT2004 just plain rocks in my opinion.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess, you have an ATI card.

I play on a 3-year old 64MB Geforce 4 and it rocks for play and framerate. Perhaps you backed the wrong horse.

Did you vote for Bush, too?

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[TheRealFreakish]

My Radeon 9800 Pro runs it just fine and dandy, thank you. If anyone has poor performance in Onslaught it's probably because that game mode requires a lot more power than any of the other game modes.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[BrookHarty]

While I also think the weapons are a tad weak, it does make it easier for newer players, no instant death. (Unless you get run over by a vehical) Game play needs tweaked, weapons could be a little better, but its a very fun game.

One of my favorite parts is the Gun Turrets, zooming in, defending the base. They are destroyed WAY to easily for a base turrent.

Theres 2 types of game play, fast quake3 rail type action or slower CS type games, where you have to make your first shot count. UT2004 is extremely to the fast action shooter. One of the reasons I didnt care for quake3, spawn and get railed or instant death. UT trys to deal with istant death, it will be interesting to see what tweaks and mods come out.

I'm really waiting for the Tribes game to come out, the open areas, the jetpack, and the slower combat with lead time for weapons. Little more thought in your actions, less of a twitch game.

I'm installing gentoo this weekend, really want to see if I can get a lan game going with a windows box, my mac and a linux system using the demo. Really impressed with this multiplatform release.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[ziggy_zero]

Hell, I have a GeForce 3 and it still runs fine on my machine. I've had no hiccups at 1280x1024, and I think all detail levels maxed.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[abe ferlman]

I played the link-the-powernodes game and found it endlessly stupid. The game's pretty much decided in the first 30-40 seconds by who gets the most nodes.

That hasn't been my experience. This play mode rocks. It's balanced in the sense that when you are down to just your base, you always spawn right where you need to be to defend, and in a good game the control of the middle and tank nodes on the demo map shift control often.

If you have unbalanced teams you'll see someone dominate early, but the game seems to have a mechanism for rebalancing teams when the next round starts, probably according to kill count.

I've found it's best to take your opponent's tank node before you bother taking the middle, but I'm sure others have their own opinions.

Yep, buyin' this one. Thanks for a great game that runs really well on linux. I just wish Unreal II had been available for linux, I LOVED the first single-player unreal. I'm not sure I've seen a more beautifully drawn game since.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[markx16]

You must not have played much. The assault rifle is extremely accurate and has no trail to tell the target where your shots came from, unlike every other weapon. Its only fault is that it does no damage; otherwise it would be too powerful. Yes, I liked the pistols.

As for onslaught, games are interesting if you play with people who understand the map (much rides on the link layout, too). Since the cores drain in overtime faster if you hold more nodes, you can't just scratch their node and hold on. I've seen a few comebacks, each quite thrilling (well if you're on the winning team).

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[atomicdragon]

Some of the changes were to rebalance things and to make it so that you needed to use skills instead of just carpet bombing things. Like with the rocker launcher, you need to aim with three rockets instead of just spraying 8 of them into an open area with fighting. I like the balance since I can kill just about as well with any weapon with a small deviation for the flak cannon (I have to try and avoid getting "flak monkey") and the assault rifle. I don't think the assault rifle is bad for a default gun, just doesn't have anything special either. The charged grenade is useful for pushing back people if you are making a dash for a better gun.

Of course I can't kill as easy with some of the weapons as compared to the original UT, but neither can other people. I think the balancing in this game lets me have more fun by just grabbing something and going, instead getting torn up by the same thing over and over again or only being able to compete by sniping which gets boring real quick for me.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[TheWhaleShark]

So you prefer the endless crack-monkeyness of death match over a team-based gametype that requires some degree of coordination and teamwork? I also fail to see how a game is decided in 30 - 40 seconds; I've fought many a back-and-forth match of Onslaught.

By the way, the rocket launcher has been changed since UT2k3. The old rocket launcher (5 or 6 rockets, IIRC) was just pure crack and somewhat excessive. The Enforcer in UT was about as useful as the assault rifle in 2k3 and 2k4 is now.

Granted, you're entitled to your opinion, but as one UT fan to another, I'm having a hard time following your logic.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Lumpy]

you obviousally dont have a god grasp on onslaught "link the power nodes" game.

you can easily turn the tide towards the end of the game if your team is skilled enough... one camper in a tank on the hill overlooking the enemy's vantage point blowing to hell every vehicle that re-spawns will allow you to overrun that power node quickly.

I suggest you play it with some people instead of AI only.

oh and nothing feels better than driving a pickup recklessly into the enemy base and jump it into their power supply, jumping out of the vehicle in the air and watching it crash into their cell as you launch a few rockets into the truck and target winning very VERY quickly.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[airjrdn]

3 years ago, your argument might have held water. I think you'll find that opinion slipping quickly now days.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[kwalker]

I don't know what kind of rig you have, but my Athlon 1800+, 512MB RAM, GeForce 3 ti 200 plays is very well at 1024x768 with most everything on "normal" or higher.

Did you play Onslaught for more than 30-40 seconds? It doesn't matter how many nodes you have if you can't hold them. I've played games where we had all the nodes and were assaulting the enemy generator, but were eventually pushed back to our own base and defeated.

You realise there are two different rocket launchers now, and one is an excellent vehicle destroyer. Oh wait, no you probably don't.

Also the assault rifle has a much higher rate of fire than the Enforcer ever did and in UT2004 you can have two at a time, so it's possible once again to go double-fisted. It's at least as acurate as the Enforcer ever was, more so than that useless "gangsta-style rapid fire".

Maybe you just suck and should stick with your original UT. I don't see anyone holding a gun to your head to buy UT2k4.

There. I'm done with my monthly troll-feeding.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I've fought many a back-and-forth match of Onslaught."

Wow congratu-fucking-lations. The whole human race is proud of you.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[mrmzytplk]

Agree, I also have a Geforce3 and the game is GORGEOUS. Preordered SE at EBGames for $40 - $20 in a gift certificate.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Zardus]

Is it now? I have a Geforce4 Go 420 in my laptop. Two of my friends has a Radeon 9000 - laptops from two different brands. My laptop runs UT2k4 in Linux like a charm, all settings except for AA maxed (or AA on and all settings at medium). At lowest settings and resolution, their laptops play it horribly choppy. Then of course there's the ever-hated WineX and their lack of support for ATI. All WineX comments aside, GTA3, MOO3, GTA:VC, and BF1942 work perfectly in Linux on my laptop -- better than in Windows (yes, I did measure). I don't know anyone with an ATI card that can say that.

nVidia takes good care of their Linux drivers, ATI puts them out as an afterthought.

And, even if ATI gets their act together, we can still slam them for not having FreeBSD drivers (nVidia does)! :-)

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[raodin]

Err, except the winning team will almost always have BOTH tanks..

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[airjrdn]

"nVidia takes good care of their Linux drivers, ATI puts them out as an afterthought."

That's obviously not an issue for the large majority of gamers, myself included. One of the reasons (just one) I don't run Linux is lack of support for newer games. I'll admin though, with the Unreal series, and Americas Army, things are starting to look up.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Blastrogath]

If you think grenades suck, you're using them wrong.

They are for covering your own vehicle with so when you die you blow up extra big.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[13Echo]

Runs great on my Radeon 9500 PRO on Linux. It's a modern game, so I wouldn't expect it to run exceptionally well on anything lower than today's midrange cards.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[provolt]

Grenades may suck, but spider mines are definitely nice.

Grenades suck? I think you're just using them wrong. They aren't great for taking out other people on foot, but they can do pretty good against the vehicles (especially the slow ones). The other major use is to take out the nodes. The grenades will stick to the node and do ALOT of damage. A couple guys with grenade launchers can take out a node in a few seconds.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[je56]

The 3-rocket rocket launcher is still there.

Looks like you haven't played CTF/DM yet...

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Penguinshit]

Sorry, Captain Clownpunch, but even on my anemic Duron 950-G4 Ti4200 system the game is still quite playable. Assault is an excellent game.

I'm still a little confused about the football game, though...

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Anonymous Coward]

That onslaught map IS decided in the first 30 seconds. You might get super lucky and make a comeback if you lose that middle node, but don't count on it.

Gun turrets? How about a little armor? Those things get destroyed in no time flat. Some "defense".

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Deliveranc3]

Gameplan for Good team, drive jeep to node one all three link and build. Take Tank drive through centre and send manta's to attack their tank node until you gain central or tank node. Use vehicles to snipe their last node while you attack and build their tank node. Use tank

• s

to defend final node, use other vehicles to attack home node.

If you think you can recapture a node with two tanks hammering it you are sorely mistaken, note a good tanker knows how to use the mg to shoot down missiles and stays out of sight of your base.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats nothing, I got a CGA card and a 286 that gets a healthy 30 fps no sweat.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll tell you right now that I can take out your tanks quite easily.

I win many battles with people that use your tactics... it's fun and pisses them off.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[RickL]

Watch the damage meter. When it gets low, bail. Also, if I recall correctly, the AVRiL won't lock on unless you are in it. I use that trick with vehicles, especially the tank.

Or, when the damage gets to 50%, you can hop out and heal it with your link gun's secondary fire.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[darkmeridian]

How about the suicide bombers? Glue a whole bunch of grenades onto your foes' vehicles while dodging them and set it off when they go home. Yeah! Or stick em onto your teammates (with friendly fire off) and have him walk near a vehicle. HEh.

Re:emphasis on gameplay?

[Anonymous Coward]

ahem, it is REAL easy to steal a tank. just wait for the sod to exit it to "activate" that node for his team, steal tank, blow him and node up, activate node and start cranking...

A deeply disappointing game IMHO

[Andrew Price]

I absolutely loved Unreal and UT. UT2k3, Unreal 2 and UT2k4 were horrible for me. Nice graphics, utterly stupid gamplay. If you liked 2003, this game may appeal, otherwise a waste of d/l time. Call of Duty and ET are waay better, actually requiring some brain. Just my 2c

Re:A deeply disappointing game IMHO

[Anonymous Coward]

I hated UT2003.

UT2004 kicks ass IMO. Onslaught mode fucking ROCKS. And they brought back Assault mode! What more could you ask for?!?

Re:A deeply disappointing game IMHO

[nonmaskable]

I hate "me too" posts, but...

I tried to get used to 2k3, but it's just a pretty looking, bad playing quake clone with short people players.

I still play UT on the net. Lots of great servers & good players.

Re:A deeply disappointing game IMHO

[King_TJ]

Bleah.... I beg to differ.
I did love the original UT, but UT2K4 does a great job of adding updated/cool graphics, while still keeping the gameplay moving along at the right pace. The new game modes really add value, too. I think most of us feel like the "deathmatch" concept is just about worn out. CTF is fine, but I don't need to buy it over and over again in different titles.

UT2003 was somehow less enjoyable for me, with the annoying replacement for the sniper rifle (wouldn't really have been so bad, except that stupid static effect on the lightning gun's sights gave me a headache), and the feeling that everyone was running a little bit too quickly. It had the "eye candy" down, but at the expense of some gameplay details.

As for the games "requiring brains", I dunno. Playing the "realistic" 1st. person shooters is simply a differnt kind of entertainment. I'm not knocking them, but sometimes I just want a rather mindless "jump, run and kill" game. It's the modern day version of the old scrolling "shoot 'em up" like Zaxxon or something....

Re:A deeply disappointing game IMHO

[WwWonka]

Call of Duty and ET are waay better, actually requiring some brain.

Of course Call of Duty requires "some brain", it's human skulls your blasting at while your bunny hopping around the map. While Unreal its alien matter called "rexninoladx" that spews from their noggins. Fucking duh! ;-)

Decent price too

[Fiz Ocelot]

I got the collector's edition for 40 bucks, comes on DVD with a nice logitech headset and bonus dvd. It also has some kind of emblem that adds either 50HP to your car or 2ghz to your pc (whichever you apply it to)

Re:Decent price too

[phuturephunk]

..And thats fitty to the WHEELS, not the crank dude!...(give em the rick flair)..Woooooo!...

Re:Decent price too

[ptudor]

Outpost.com has the Special Edition for $35, but you have to pay shipping. In my case two copies overnighted is (slightly) cheaper than two copies at the local store and has a high convenience factor.

Re:Decent price too

[Anonymous Coward]

Um... this article is about UT2k4... you're probably thinking of an older UT...

Re:Decent price too

[May Kasahara]

Nope, I think he's talking about the preorder for the UT2K4 collector's edition. They were doing this deal at EBGames.com (with the $40 price and the free car thingie), but it seems like they're currently out of stock... bah.

Re:Decent price too

[Kelz]

How exactly can you be out of stock when they are not even IN stock yet?

Re:Decent price too

[Dirtside]

It also has some kind of emblem that adds either 50HP to your car or 2ghz to your pc (whichever you apply it to)

Cool! The extra 50 hit points will keep my car safe from clowns driving rocket-launcher-equipped ice cream trucks. (I live in L.A.)

everybody interested in having more games on Linux

[dmouritsendk]

..should rush out and buy this game and then send a mail to one of these people, letting them know that the fact that the game ran on Linux was one of the factors that made you deside to buy the game.

Bacially, thank them for their support of your favorite platform. And let them know you are always looking for quality game titles running linux to buy.

That won't hurt the chances of future ATARI distributed games being ported to Linux.

I'm surprised it's this good

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't Cliffy B a Polack or something?

"Near-Simultaneous" Release on Mac

[TylerL82]

This move by MacSoft (although I'm sure is making them bust their asses) to bring out the Mac version ASAP is so very respectable in my opinion. I don't buy many games, but this is one where I can't wait to throw my money at its creators. Too bad MacSoft isn't taking direct preorders :(

Would somebody please tell me...

[Anonymous Coward]

...what the heck is that red and silver icon attached to this story supposed to be?

Re:Would somebody please tell me...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll drop an anon to this: It's the grenade launcher from quake...supposedly.

voice recognition

[berkut1337]

Voice recognition is the besst feauture for me, I'm surprized it's not being mentioned more. All that you have to do is download MS speech SDK, train it and then the fun begins:

ALPHA GET OUT! the bot will exit the vehicle, or
EVERYONE DANCE!, lol

http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/74_ 1. php

Re:voice recognition

[theobscurest]

And that URL is:
http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/74_1. php

Re:voice recognition

[fistynuts]

That is like the best thing in the world ever. More games should definately use this sort of thing!

Re:voice recognition

[Sabalon]

I'd love for them to expand on this so I can call out the weapon I want instead of trying to scroll or hit the right key.

Does anyone remember the original Unreal Tournment

[msimm]

The dual weapons (pistols? assault rifles?) were there but it was so much more dark. It was an extreme sport setting with somewhat realistic human (future) characters. I really miss that.

Unreal on the Ides!

[MigrantHail]

Enjoy such new features as onslaught, assault...and good old backstabbing.

Don't complain about performance...

[KalvinB]

...if you can't be bothered to post the specs of the machine you're trying to run it on. It's completely meaningless.

"The pistol is gone; it was highly accurate"

Pistols aren't supposed to be accurate. You cannot snipe people with pistols. If a game allows you to do such a thing it's rediculous even for a fantasy world.

If you like unlimited firepower with "can't miss" weapons, feel free to use cheat codes in single player or continue playing the original. It's not like there's a shortage of maps or players.

Ben

Re:Don't complain about performance...

[Zardus]

The enforcers were bad-ass. Jumping into close-quarter battle firing them in gangsta-mode was the best light-hearted fun I've ever had in an FPS. The assault rifle just isn't the same.

I wouldn't have minded a more in-acruate enforcer, but removing them was an Abomination Onto Nuggan.

Re:Don't complain about performance...

[Sigma 7]

You cannot snipe people with pistols.

That's not quite true. You can place a mini-scope onto a pistol to turn it into a miniture sniper rifle. Half-life's Firearms Mod does this with the Colt Anaconda (if you have the Marksmanship skill). A person I know who plays the game uses the Colt Anaconda along with one other weapon (G36E, but I'm not sure).

This Anaconda isn't as powerful as the dedicated sniper rifles, but can be used for sniping the opposing team.

Re:Don't complain about performance...

[OPR33]

In the hands of an expert shooter, pistols can prove to be quite accurate. A firearms instructor I'm friends with can take a compact autopistol with a two inch barrel and shoot three to four inch groups at 50 yards nonstop, and at a hundred yard still be lethal on a man size target (or female size target for political correctness). Granted a rifle does extend the range quite a bit but with most quality firearms, it's the shooter who is not accurate, not the firearm.

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[The Analog Kid]

Yeah it seems like the only way to get a Linux port is by indi developers who created their own franchise these days ever since Loki went bust like BioWare's NeveWinter, Id's Quake series, or S2Games Savage.

Gats

[gunnmjk]

Probably get tagged as redundant later, but I believe you could use Dual Assault Rifles in the first Unreal Tournament. Not only that, but you can turn the "gats" sideways with the secondary fire button. With that said, I was glad when I found out they brought it back in UT2004 as well.

Re:Gats

[strictnein]

You're thinking of dual pistols. No assault rifle in the original UT. That appeared first in UT2K3.

Which version will you pick up?

[MMaestro]

The 7 CD version or the special edition 2 DVD pack?

Re:Which version will you pick up?

[kundor]

They're the same price at ebgames.com, or at least they were last week.

So the DVD pack, which also includes a logitech headset to take advantage of the new voice command (yes! you can give voice commands to the bots!) has my preorder.

Re:Which version will you pick up?

[Dimensio]

Got a link for the DVD edition at ebgames.com? I can't find it.

Re:Which version will you pick up?

[etn991]

Sorry, but it's gone.

However, you can get it cheaper here.

Re:Does anyone remember the original Unreal Tournm

[nukem1999]

The biggest things I missed from the original were a real sniper rifle and Assault mode, both of which are back in 2k4 :D
Although they kept the "lightning gun" sniper rifle clone in the game for some maps. I guess to keep down on the campers in certain areas. It can be hard to see snipers in the foliage in certain areas (I know first hand, even with the lightning trail giving away your position, someone has to be looking to see it :D)

All in all, must of my gripes about 2k3 (which I didn't buy) are gone now, and I'm almost certainly going to buy it. I just hope they fix the lag that makes it hard to walk on an elevated platform without falling to your doom.

Stupid special forces tricks

[Ancient Devices King]

This is pretty off topic, but this reminds me of the Soviet Spetznas being trained to throw shovels with deadly accuracy.

Re:Stupid special forces tricks

[His Nastiness]

For the edification of those not familiar with the Spetznas: An anecdote I heard (or read) was that some guys (terrorists or maybe just heavily motivated political types) took a bunch of people hostage in a building. The cops called in the Spetznas. Rather than try and negotiate the Spetznas sneak into the building capture a terrorist or two. They take them out of the building, cut off their heads and throw the heads back into the building. On the heads they had written something to the effect of "Surerender or this will happen to you". The hostage takers surrendered. Of course the Spetznas are also responsible for that fiasco last year in the movie theatre. Still, bad ass stuff.

Re:Stupid special forces tricks

[core plexus]

The very fisrt thing the instructor said to us in edged weapons class is never throw your weapon away. We learned how to anyway, as well as throwing scissors, letter openers, and other assorted items. It's pretty cool to throw something and see it sticking in the target, although in a real fight, you still have time to 'return the favor' before you bleed out, assuming the wound was even eventually fatal. In the movies, the Hero/Badguy can throw a knife and bury it to the hilt, but try it on a slab of unfrozen beef sometime, even try to stab it to the hilt. It's not easy, especially around the ribs, breast, or shoulder. Notice how hard it is to pull the knife back out? If it is one of those silly Rambo knives, the serrations will catch on ligaments and other parts. It's really more of a distraction. They actually sharpened the edges of the shovel, and were trained to use them in ways other than by throwing. Then again, we never got the chance to throw something when the target was shooting, or threatening to shoot, back. I'm pretty sure that would affect performance.

Back on the subject, you can fire 2 'assault rifles' or handguns at a time, but there's no need, and plenty of reasons not to. One rifle can lay down plenty of suppressive fire, and more accurately than trying to use up all your ammo in a display of firepower. The target will just keeps it head down til you're trying to clear a jam or reload, and put a single round where it really hurts. Or send out his buddy to flank you. Since you used up all your ammo, and your weapon it too hot to touch, he won't even have to throw his shovel at you.

-cp-

President Bush to Liberate Alaska

Re:Stupid special forces tricks

[Cyno01]

It always impresses people at the office to whip a letter opener at the drywall and have it stick...

Re:Stupid special forces tricks

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps they are impressed at your immaturity, and you are simply confused. That's why the other people at the office score and you don't. Maybe the people at the office would be more impressed if you whipped out a large pair of scissors and threw it with deadly accuracy into your asshole domineering superiors neck (the spray and gurgling are priceless, but you gotta finish it or it goes on for what seems like a half-hour, and it is some sounds of pleading and gurgling, and smells like you don't want to know). You know you want to.

Be It, Don't Think It!

p.s. Your lack of originality will be your downfall.

Re:Stupid special forces tricks

[takotech]

Info on the theater incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Culture_Inci dent

Re:Stupid special forces tricks

[takotech]

Whoops. Shoulda hit preview.

Here is that link again:
Spetsnaz siege

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[vogel]

Actually the best way to make sure your copy is associated with Linux is to play the retail version online as our masterserver keeps track of the last OS used to connect to it (per CD key).

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

Mod parent up!

[kwalker]

Holy crap, I didn't know you read Slashdot.

Mod parent up. This is the horse's mouth, people.

Re:Mod parent up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of geeks at Epic. Many of us read Slashdot. :)

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[ImpTech]

I wish they'd push Linux support a little harder. I mean, you can't find concrete verification anywhere that if you buy the Windows copy it will work on Linux. Now, I know it does, but thats because I found a screenshot of the back of the box somewhere. No online store mentions it.

Torrent?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick, someone post the torrent!

wait..

[liloconf]

Untill it can run faster on my computer I'm only giving it a "silver"...

Great Game

[(eternal_software)]

This is an excellent game. I was never a big fan of FPS but the "onslaught" mode in UT2004 has me hooked. Excellent mix of combat and strategy, the controls feel right, and the vehicles are really fun.

I still haven't played the standard "deathmatch" and "capture the flag" modes (and I am not really in a hurry to try them).

There is much more to be had here then in previous Unreal titles.

Re:Great Game

[kundor]

Try out the Bombing Run in the demo...it's pretty fun as well (once you figure out how to get to the nets, anyway.)

(It's basically rugby.)

Re:Great Game

[Walkiry]

(It's basically rugby.)

Remind me never to play rugby with you, in my town we're not allowed to carry guns when playing ;)

Re:Great Game

[Anonymous Coward]

in my town we're not allowed to carry guns when playing ;)

Creeping Fascism Alert!

Mouse-gesture aim

[eddy]

[...] but my favorite is the ability to carry dual assault rifles.

I'm guessing this is like in every other game, you still aim them together?

I was thinking that it would be interesting to experiment with individual aim for dual-weapons. You could have 'hold RMB and move mouse to aim second gun' (would subsume looking around) and 'hold RMB and press LMB' to fire.

But it guess it would be odd to controll one weapon as "an arm" and the other like usual (that is "where you look you fire"), so then you'd have to do the same but in reverse for the "left" gun, which I'm sure few gamers would like. Maybe for an option...

Just a thought.

Re:Mouse-gesture aim

[kiddygrinder]

I've also been thinking about this, it'd be more usefull in a slower mech type game. Also it would be way cooler if you used 2 mice instead of the key/button holding thing

Re:Mouse-gesture aim

[Deliveranc3]

You my good man are a candidate for mech games, this is the kind of stuff they implement all the time. Check out some of the more advanced ones.

Re:Mouse-gesture aim

[Inuchance]

If you wanna try out dual weapons, go into an arcade and play one of those random two-person shooter games, paying for two players and holding both guns. Sure, it's expensive, but it's still fun to do every once in a while.

What makes it good

[Neo-Rio-101]

The thing that stands out about good games these days are their replay value it seems.
I keep finding that those "play through the game once and forget" games hardly get any replay value, whereas games like GTA (especially the racing, taxi, and police missions) and Unreal have endless replay value because of the underlying game involved is actually fun, with many variations on the theme...
(which reminds me of the Atari 2600 games, which had more variations on the theme of a particular game than you could shake a stick at - I think there was about 26 variations on Space Invaders alone!)

In that way, Unreal Tournament and the original Quake III have a kind of replay value that the original Pac-man (with all those patterns) and the Street Fighter series (with all those characters) had.

The frustration that other "3D tourism" games have (where you get stuck in one part and have to solve a puzzle to get to the next bit). Just doesn't hold up to replay value. Once you finish it, you throw the CD into the cupboard.

We need to see more games like this, and not the next Madden 3005 - if Madden is still with us by then.

Re:What makes it good

[patternjuggler]

"play through the game once and forget" games hardly get any replay value

The ultimate in replay value would be the game that you completely forget after playing, except for how great it was to play, so you play it again and forget and then back to step one again...

For true replayability though, since the player probably won't forget, is to give the game a great deal of depth- so much that after beating the game the player is able to go back and play in a totally different style, explore more remote areas, and really try to find the boundaries of the game and easter eggs and so forth. It also has to be lots of fun so that all that exploring won't be a chore, as cruising across town in your vehicle of choice is in GTA3.

Re:What makes it good

[Spoing]

1. (which reminds me of the Atari 2600 games, which had more variations on the theme of a particular game than you could shake a stick at - I think there was about 26 variations on Space Invaders alone!)

...and even more if you pop the cover of the cart and apply a screwdriver to the pins. Adventure worked well with this trick; something that would be hard to do with an emulator.

Re:What makes it good

[Kyouryuu]

What I think also stands out about Unreal Tournament is Epic's strong and continued support of the mapping and modding community that has formed around the game. Not only do they give players access to the actual production tools they used for the game, they have made it obscenely easy to share maps and support us with thorough documentation every step of the way.

Why is this important? Granted, mapmaking is not everyone's forte and I'm certain the vast majority of UT players will never touch the editor. However, what it allows us to do is create new worlds and new experiences for players to enjoy time and again. This keeps the game fresh, new, and exciting. I think it should come as no surprise that every popular game on the Internet has such a "sandbox" component built into it. This is no doubt how the original UT, now about 6 years old, continues to stand strongly on its own merits.

Re:What makes it good

[martinX]

The ultimate in replay value would be the game that you completely forget after playing, except for how great it was to play, so you play it again and forget and then back to step one again.

Play stoned :-}

1. Insert CD into computer

2. Light up a big scoob

3. Play game. Look at pretty lights...

4. Repeat.

Re:What makes it good

[GauteL]

I disagree. Since you have no recollection of it, it would just be a time waster. A black hole in which you sink for hours at a time.

What would be the point of experiencing total bliss (love or whatever) for some time if you can't remember it afterwards? It might as well never have happened and that is what it will feel like to you.

I used to think like this, but then I realised that one of the really great thing about movies and games is remembering them afterwards and talking about them with your mates.

Re:What makes it good

[RickL]

My favorite "pretty lights" doesn't require any vegetation, just go to the Gaol map, crank up the number of bots to the max, and set the mutators to Redeemer arena.

Now that is pretty lights.

Re:What makes it good

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Space Invaders had 211 variations! One time my Dad and I played every single one.

Re:What makes it good

[Anonymous Coward]

If it were a choice you could make, it would be fun to do. For instance, I've always been curious how I'd react to finding out that Darth Vader is Luke's father if I didn't already know before ever seeing the movie. If I could safely remove all memory of the plots of the Star Wars movies from my mind, while leaving the love I have for them intact, I think I'd try it. I'd be willing to do the same with some games I've played. In Final Fantasy 7, for instance, I knew about a major plot point a few weeks after the game came out, but I never bothered to play it until years later (when it was old enough that I could forgive the awful graphics). My point is that being able to choose to forget about a game before playing it would be great. You're assuming that you'd forget after playing it, which would be pointless (and I agree with you that it would be).

CAN'T WAIT!

[Anonymous Coward]

Then I can buy it.

Then I can say I am a professional gamer.

Then I can have my mommy bring me a plate of cookies to my room while I dream of making something of myself wasting my life away. Nothing like being a "professional" waste of life!

Misleading hardware req.'s

[May Kasahara]

I bitched about this on Slashdot awhile ago: UT2K4's system requirements appeared to be too steep for my computer, but when I looked up those for UT2K3 on the official website, those were inflated as well! The original minimum requirements for the older game called for a 733mHz Pentium while the new ones for both games ask for 1gHz Pentium as the bare minimum. Taking some advice (thanks MachDelta), I downloaded the demo for UT2K4 when it came out and played it on my aging 733mHz PC. Despite some very minor lag/loading issues that I believe could be taken care of with a new graphics card, the demo ran fine, and I expect no huge problems once I install the full version of the game.

I'd imagine pretty much any new hardware you can get nowadays should be fine. One thing I highly recommend if you're doing any sort of modding-- if the OS you're using can run Maya, then it should run UnrealEd with no problems (I know this for sure when it comes to Windows. Not so sure about Mac and Linux).

Re:Misleading hardware req.'s

[shadowcabbit]

Agreed. UT2K3 worked just fine on my old P3 700 MHz and a GeForce2; boosting the RAM from 128 to 256 made it almost flawless. I'm now running a P4 2.8 GHz and 512 RAM with an onboard Intel graphics set and the game still runs beautifully; I imagine that uninstalling 2K3 to make room for 2K4 will cause no noticeable difference in performance (no broadband for the duration of my unemployment, so I haven't picked up the demo).

It's been my experience that missing one or two of the "minimum requirements" by a short amount (say, having a 733 MHz when it says 1 GHz) is still within acceptable limits when checking out. It's also been my experience that if a game's demo is out first, it does a hell of a lot in the way of allowing potential customers to gauge what they'll need. I applaud Atari and Epic for bothering to care about their customers, and you can bet that the next game I buy is going to be the deluxe DVD set.

Bots in Vehicles

[neodragonslayer]

Tell your bot with voice command to "cover me". Then they get in your vehicle. It also works to get a bot in the turret seat of the Goliath.

Re:Bots in Vehicles

[Jaysyn]

Thank you. Does "Search & Destroy" make them get out by chance?

Jaysyn

Re:Bots in Vehicles

[neodragonslayer]

There is also a voice command "get out." Just say ", get out," and they do so. Sure like it when one of your bots gets in the Raptor, and you want it. Watch him plummet to death. =)

Re:Bots in Vehicles

[RickL]

Ooooh, I think I'm going to set up my headset tonight. How good is the voice recognition?

I can't wait for a chance to tell someone what to do...and have them do it! Oh, the power, mwahaha!

Re:Bots in Vehicles

[Jaysyn]

I've pre-ordered the Special DVD edition of UT2004, it comes with a Logitech headset. I can't wait to try it out.

That's funny, it was $34.90 when I ordered mine.

Jaysyn

Re:Bots in Vehicles

[Jaysyn]

You probably already know this, but the primary & seconday horn in the Hellbender, tells the nearest bot to get in the side turret & rear turret respectively.

Jaysyn

"Biggest thing to ever hit multiplayer?"

[death00]

"...the biggest thing to ever hit multiplayer gaming...the granddaddy of all multiplayer competition...most exciting multiplayer title ever to grace the PC." Somehow I doubt these spurious claims. I remember playing Quake III Arena and the original UT (in fact I still enjoy playing both), and those were the biggest things ever to hit multiplayer gaming. The adrenaline rush from playing at breakneck speeds against human opponents was fantastic! Initially, I had to decide which one would get my $50, and went with UT because of the different gameplay modes. I was highly disappointed with UT2003, especially since the assault mode was dropped. I'm glad to see UT2004 has assault mode back in, but I'm still looking forward to Doom III and Half-Life 2 far more than this release. Carmack: Where's my Doom III? It's been nearly a year since I asked that last!

Macintosh performance issues

[v1]

I've seen a few posters comment about rendering speed increasing if sound is disabled, but that's not really an option for a serious player... if you can't hear where the shooting is coming from (or hear the footsteps of the person tailgaiting you) you're not gonna last very long. So turning off the sound isn't a serious option.

Also, just in general I'd say the frame rates on the mac are a lot slower than on the PC. Are they even bothering to use hardware accelleration? It feels like I'm back playing the original Unreal Tournament on my Wallstreet with its sucky graphics speed, and yet this is a fairly new tibook. My fps drops to around 4 or so during heavy action.

Re:Macintosh performance issues

[green pizza]

I've seen a few posters comment about rendering speed increasing if sound is disabled, but that's not really an option for a serious player

I totally agree... and hope that it's more of a threading bug than anything else!

Also, just in general I'd say the frame rates on the mac are a lot slower than on the PC. Are they even bothering to use hardware accelleration?

Both the Mac and Linux versions run slower than the Windows version... mostly because the game's 3D engine was written for MS Direct3D... the Mac and Linux versions have been hacked to use OpenGL.

That said, you're going to need a modern Mac (or Linux PC) to run this game... newer than what would be required to play on a Windows PC. The game runs more than fast enough on my 15" Aluminum PowerBook G4 (1.25 GHz G4, Radeon 9600 Mobility). Performance dops a bit when I run higher than 1024x768, though... it may be a fillrate issue with the GPU as this game makes heavy use of multipass rendering. Hopefully the new Radeon 9700 Mobility will fix that! The same game on a similar iMac 17" (1.25 GHz G4, GeForce FX 5200) runs quite a bit slower dispite similar system architecture. My guess is that the FX 5200 can't pump the pixels as fast as the Radeon 9600. Disabiling audio speeds up both machines, so there might be room for improvement.

I had an opportunity to play the demo on both a monster pc gamer rig and on a dual processor G5 at a local mom-and-pop computer store. The PC, with a Radeon 9800, showed about 3x the FPS frame rate as the Mac (dual 1.8 GHz G5, Radeon 9600) but game play felt about the same on both machines. Though the numbers are smaller on the Mac, the game didn't feel any "choppier" than the PC.

Re:Macintosh performance issues

[Espectr0]

Did you really expect a mac laptop to be as fast as a pc desktop?

On my 1.0ghz powerbook i can barely play neverwinter, and it almost fries the cpu

Re:Macintosh performance issues

[Brewdles]

Both the Mac and Linux versions run slower than the Windows version... mostly because the game's 3D engine was written for MS Direct3D... the Mac and Linux versions have been hacked to use OpenGL.

I wouldn't call it hacked - it's just that the engine is designed primarily with D3D in mind. Remember that the old builds of Unreal didn't really get fast unless you were running them on a 3dfx chipset - they were built for Glide. The OpenGL support is not hacked in just for Linux/Mac, either - you'll be able to select it as the renderer in the Windows version as well, just like the older Unreal engine games. It's not as heavily optimised as the D3D code, so on Windows it's basically a backup mechanism for D3D behaving like a bastard.

Re:Macintosh performance issues

[v1]

It's not that I expected the mac laptop to be the same, but I wasn't expecting this much of a gap. Powerbooks are known for their state-of-the-art technology, and I expect the graphics to be very nearly top-end, and the processor to be within maybe 75% of top-end. (due to issues coping with heat) Performance in UT 2k4 though is at maybe 20% of that of a PC, which is clearly a much more serious problem than the hardware itself could account for.

I'd tend to agree with the other previous poster, in that it's an issue of poor optimization in the conversion of the Direct-X to Open-GL engine that is accounting for the poor fps.

But on the flip-side, I do have to give them credit for making a very stable game that so far is 100% network compatible between platforms. In our tests, my tibook never crashed, whereas several of the PC users at the lan game got hard freezes. That, and we never had any glitches between the server (my ti) and the clients (mostly PCs), which is more than I can say for the original UT.

Re:Macintosh performance issues

[PantsWearer]

On a 1ghz PB? On my 1.25ghz Al, it runs wonderfully. In fact, I run it in window mode, instead of fullscreen, so that I can actually monitor things in the background, such as chats or remote processes. Of course, those background items can't be very CPU intensive.

Also, your performance may increase if you go into Power Management and switch it off of "Automatic." There's some CPU sleeping that goes on when in "Automatic" mode that directly impacts high performance computing.

Re:Macintosh performance issues

[Ilgaz]

On a G5, 1600 Mhz I get real good framerates with Nvidia thing. I want to ask if it supports/or support 64bit stuff.

I asked 2 times so... I mean, its stupid to ask further.

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[Exantrius]

well, Thanks anyway for making it run on linux-- My machine is too, erm... *scattered* to run video games under linux... I have to go into windows to get my unemployment fix...

Something about having a desktop of 3840x1440 just disagrees with X and hardware acceleration (well, maybe it's the fact I've got a Radeon and a Geforce4 running a monitor each)

Regardless, someday I'll set it up to run video games, in the meantime, Thanks for the effort. /ex /ex

Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Awptimus Prime]

The only two games that get much coverage on /. seem to be Quake, Doom3, and Unreal(x).

Meanwhile, BF1942 and others get little coverage -- even though other titles were the ones to pioneer 64 player servers and larger maps.

The only thing I can figure is the old school FPS game with a gun that fires the EXACT same while running at a scale speed of 38mph, jumping, etc.

I remember posting the same question about Counter-Strike getting no /. press when it had like 20x the number of online players than Q3 had, at the time, and getting modded as a troll.

Personally, being a seasoned player of FPS titles since Wolf3D, I prefer games that have some level of chance when it comes to firing a perfect shot. Getting 18 consecutive headshots in MP with a sniper rifle is just lame after a while.

I also play paintball a lot, which is fairly inconsistent when it comes to accuracy. I've also got a couple of scoped rifles I enjoy doing some target practice with sometimes. Even with the bipod extended and laying prone, I can't hit consistently within a foot at 100 yards. Mind you, I have some eyesight problems.

This just makes the running and shooting perfectly thing in Unreal and Q3 just too cartoony for it to be fun.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[martyn s]

Dude, are you kidding? It's a fucking game! Seriously, yeah I hate pacman because it's so unrealistic. What about crossword puzzles, that's not too realistic, is it?

Either the game is fun or it's not, it's not trying to be realistic. And by the way, Halo makes sure that the running speed is accurate with respect to scale.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Cosmik]

You forget the influence of the Mac and Linux crowd on this site.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love your mathematical prowess. (sorry, kidding, kidding)

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

64 player engines have been around since quake 2 you narb. Quake3 and RTCW both allow 64 players.

Inaccurate guns in video games is just a euphemism for no skill.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[88NoSoup4U88]

Meanwhile, BF1942 and others get little coverage -- even though other titles were the ones to pioneer 64 player servers and larger maps.

The Quake 3 engine was perfectly able to handle 64 players : RTCW/ET as its best proof.
I agree on them only reporting the 'bigger' games, but where does it start to become 'leveled' and where does it start to become a Gaming site ?

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[crhylove]

Maybe that's because Quake, Doom and Unreal are the real groundbreakers. Sure, BF1942 and GTA vice city are good games, but they aren't making any headway in the graphics department, or in any technology department that i can think of.

rhY

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Deliveranc3]

The Games Listed above have engines being created with them rather than simply liscensing someone else's engine. HL2 is also mentioned, :)

Other games aren't worse they are just less likely to be original.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Kyouryuu]

Then don't play.

It's fascinating that a "seasoned" FPS player would protest so much over the "sameness" of FPS games. The differences may be subtle, but they have profound implications on the game at hand.

And if you're getting 18 consecutive headshots, you need to stop playing against "Novice" bots.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Awptimus Prime]

Actually, I really dislike bots. I never play on servers with 'em. I play FPS games soley to play with other people.

I don't care if playing hardest of bots makes you better, I feel the human element is much more engaging if everyone is actually trying to win.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[brand bendy]

I agree with your points about it being to cartoony. UT04 is fun for a little while but its so damn flashy its annoying. I mean chaos can be fun but most of the time I'd like to know if I actualy hit what I was aiming for. Since nearly every weapon is some sort of laser gun variation there's a constant stream of neon lights whizzing by which just looks like a mess (and no its not my video card). The vehicles are great though, I'll give it that.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bots are no fun because they don't pout or get angry when you tell them you pwned them.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[crazyaxemaniac]

Actually they had 64-player maps since Quakeworld. They were released by id software.

base64, city64 and sewer64...

IIRC Not too many servers ran them.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[cozziewozzie]

I agree, and this lack of realism also pisses me off. When I play a game, I want it to be realistic dammit. For example, in Quake3, you never have to stop and pee, WTF?! I mean, you can play for 10 hours straight, and never once have to urinate!!!! Wouldn't it be much more exciting if you had to stop in a corner from time to time and pee, exposing your vulnerable back to the enemy!

Then there's the eating. Since Duke3d we haven't had hot-dog stands in FPS maps, and even those weren't fully operational. What I want is that each UT2004 map have a hot-dog stand so people can eat, just like at paintball, it would be much more realistic that way. And if you cuss, your mother should come and ground you for a day.

On a semi-serious note, why the hell would anyone want to play a shooting game where your shots are semi-random?

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[jkantola]

The only two games that get much coverage on /. seem to be Quake, Doom3, and Unreal(x).

Perhaps because both engines run on The Three Platforms AND are seriously utilized by third party game developers. Following iD/Epic is a handy way of following where games (or at least some genres) are going. I guess it also helps that Carmack & Sweeney are Linux-loving uber-geeks ;-)

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[tf23]

The only two games that get much coverage on /. seem to be Quake, Doom3, and Unreal(x).


Ya know, you *can* help change that. Submit articles about other games. I looked at your submissions and the list is so vast... ;) get my point?

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's also because Doom, Quake, Unreal, etc. run natively on Linux. Half-Life, BF1942 etc. don't.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[sgtrock]

I've also got a couple of scoped rifles I enjoy doing some target practice with sometimes. Even with the bipod extended and laying prone, I can't hit consistently within a foot at 100 yards. Mind you, I have some eyesight problems.

Boy, I guess! I'm not much of a shot compared to my friends, but even I can maintain a 1 inch group at a 100 yards with a scoped .30-06. Bench rest, no bipod. Standing, I can maintain a 6 inch group with no problems.

I think that based upon your personal experience you're asking to give up too much accuracy in a game.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice that BF1942 also invented trudging long distances on foot to get anyplace interesting in the game.

On not only has to contend with the gauntlets of 'Finger of God' snipers to avoid virtual game death but also actual physical death through potential overdose of stimulants to overcome the boredom, frustration, ennui and general malaise that this game induces.

This is in no small part due to larger maps.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

to pioneer 64 player servers and larger maps

Have you heard about Tribes ?

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to shoot. I can send 5 rds into the same .308" hole from 200 yds, and keep 5 on a 3" group at 600. Mind you, it's a $3000US rifle/scope/suppressor combo, but you get my drift.

Accuracy is all about repeatability.

Re:Why is it always idsoft and Unreal?

[Awptimus Prime]

Nice. You are firing an arm superior in accuracy to mine. I'm firing 7.62 russian surplus ammo in a gas powered assult rifle, aiming with a small 4x scope.

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[kundor]

You can setup a second screen layout section in your XF86Config, called "Mono" or something, that only runs one monitor (I'd suggest the GeForce 4 one.) and then restart X when you want to play games. (startx -- -layout Mono)

It's a hassle, but it's quicker than restarting the computer.

cool

[tetrahedrassface]

After that kind of experiance., all i want is MORE!!!

GF4 Mexican?

[tepples]

works great on a P-III 866 with a $39.00 Geforce4 MX

Huh? Are NVIDIA's graphics chipsets region-coded for price discrimination like DVD Video titles are? Are there a GeForce 4 US for English-speaking America and a GeForce 4 MX for Latin America?

Or have I been out of the 3D video card loop too long?

Re:GF4 Mexican?

[RickL]

Not only is the GeForce 4 MX region-encoded for Latin America, but Nvidia is planning a GeForce 4 CX that is region-encoded for the Christmas Islands.

To promote it, they will change their usual "Nvidia, the way it was meant to be played" that is found on some games with "Goatse, the way it was meant to be played."

Linux OpenAL driver

[melikamp]

I wonder if they fixed the OpenAL driver. In Demo, I was never able to enable my mike, although the sound worked perfectly.

Re:Linux OpenAL driver

[Anonymous Coward]

Whos this poor fella Mike and why do you want to enable him? To do what?! *shutters*

6 CDs and a ~6GB install!

[toiletsalmon]

Especially since this one is being shipped on SIX CD's if I recall.

Re:6 CDs and a ~6GB install!

[ChaosMog]

Unreal Tournament 2004 is expected to be available worldwide on March 15, in both a standard and a "Special Edition" format. Unreal Tournament 2004 DVD Special Edition will ship as a double-DVD set - disk one will include all of the game content while disk two will include hours of Video Training Modules (VTMs) from 3D Buzz that teach fans and amateur mod makers how to use the Unreal Editor to create custom game content. Unreal Tournament 2004 DVD Special Edition will come in a limited edition metal box and will contain a Logitech Internet Chat Headset for use with the game's exclusive voice-over-IP (voice chat) technology, as well as an Unreal window sticker.

According to this, the game also is in a 2-disc DVD edition with extra goodies. It is available at the same price at most retailers.

Source

AMEN

[Anonymous Coward]

A company whose big-wigs take the time to answer mail, and who understand the importance of supporting minor platforms is definitely a company I enjoy giving my money too.

That's doubly important for games which are multiplayer-oriented. Even if you have a wintel machine you may very well have friends into gaming who don't. And such games are nicer to play when you can frag your friends...

Re:AMEN

[Anonymous Coward]

For a secound I thougt you said fag your friends.

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a troll, just look for it on previous articles dated today

Offnote tactic for the airvehicle

[88NoSoup4U88]

If some opponent is on the redeemer spawn spot, and you have control of a flying vehicle (not sure on the name)
Spidermine it first, then lightly scrape over the floor while flying past the high-redeemer spot : The spider mines will jump off, and target any enemy on top of it :
Great fun :)

UT 2004 is good, but consider...

[quantax]

I really think due to UT 2003's relative lack of innovation, and overally not being that great of a game, that Epic (or whoever the publisher is), should give people who bought UT 2003 a rebate on UT 2004. Now, I never went out and bought UT 2003 since I figured it was nothing new, except an updated engine. This was pretty much the case, since really, UT 2003 is a demo for the Unreal Engine. Epic's 'real' game was Unreal II, which even though I wasnt too big a fan of, was atleast better than UT 2003, if only because the weapons were better. I give Epic a lot of credit for the work they've done on UT 2004, but by the same token these features either should have been in UT 2003 (given the lack of anything really new besides a new engine) or people who bought the $40 engine demo that was UT 2003 should get a rebate.

Re:UT 2004 is good, but consider...

[AGTiny]

There is a $10 rebate in the box!

Re:UT 2004 is good, but consider...

[lowe0]

Good news: They ARE giving you a rebate.

Bad news: It's only $10.

Details inside the box. If this is as good as it's supposed to be, though, I won't feel too bad about dropping $30 after rebate on it.

Re:UT 2004 is good, but consider...

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to get your facts straight. Epic is the ENGINE developer, they "game" isn't as important to them (but still plays a vital role). Legend Entertainment is the GAME developer who brought you Unreal 2. Liken this to id Software and Raven Entertainment. Quake 3 is the engine, Wolfenstein and JKII:Outcast are the games (although this this analogy is not true with the latest incarnations of Doom and Quake).

On another note... a rebate on UT2K4 for owning UT2K3 would be very nice.

original UT

[luckyguesser]

...but my favorite is the ability to carry dual assault rifles.

That's one good reason why I like the original UT better than either 2k3 or 2k4. Others include the ability to boost the game speed up to... something like 200%, and older but much much less graphic-intensive graphics engine. My computer will theoretically run 2k3 and 4 just fine, but I still like the original's gameplay much better.

Re:original UT

[Anonymous Coward]

"the ability to boost the game speed up to something like 200%"

You can certainly do this in UT2003 and I'd be surprised if you couldn't in '2004. Let's wait until we play the full game before we write it off.

Re:original UT

[rhakka]

you don't like 2k4 because you can carry two assault rifles? couldn't do that in 2k3.

You can boost game speed. There are 135% speed demo servers out there right now. Low grav instagib too. I'm sure that's right up your alley.

I think 2k4 was a really nice compromise between UT and UT2k3's gameplay. Movement was toned down a bit, weapons toned back up a little, it's really pretty solid. Very impressed. And the amazing slew of new features coming out are just sick....

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[Exantrius]

Yeah, I thought about doing that... I kinda just don't like killing X... I feel like if I have time to play video games, I should do something useful... Like getting my scripts written before the people that already paid me realize it doesn't work... /Ex

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[brxndxn]

Ack! Big brother is in our games now! I, for one, don't want Budweiser to know that I'm drinking their beer on Linux.

actually, yeah, it is.

[el-spectre]

Assault rifles are designed to be relatively light... they're the middle ground between full rifles and submachine guns. I believe a loaded M-16 is like 10 lbs, so carrying 2 would be possible (now, accuracy is a different matter...)

PROVE IT

[Anonymous Coward]

put up or shut up

FYI

[MachDelta]

Just FYI, the Raptor vehicle (no relation to the UT2004 Raptor) in Unreal 2: XMP plays Dixie too if you get airborn with the boosters (and hit the horn). :)
I loved watching that thing come flying over a hilltop with fire streaming out the vents playing that cute little tune. It was hillarious, right up until the point that it smacked into you, chewwed you up in the grinders, and spit your gibs out the same vents.

Re:FYI

[Afrosheen]

Awesome. Those devs were obviously big fans of The Dukes of Hazzard. YYeeeeeeee-hawwww!

UT2k4's vehicals suck

[Aqua OS X]

After playing the demos I can't say I'm a big fan of this game's vehicles. The vehicles don't drive well.

It feels like vehicles have been tossed in to compete with Halo. However, they don't feel like a polished and integrated piece of of the game... like they do in Halo.

This game is kind of weak :/

Re:UT2k4's vehicals suck

[JDBrechtel]

Fortunately for EPIC/Atari many many many many people (including myself) disagree with you.

RL.

[MachDelta]

Close. Its a rocket launcher.
The grenade launcher looks like this.

Re:Does anyone remember the original Unreal Tournm

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone remember the original Unreal Tournment

Nope, mandatory memory erase. It helps sell the same games over and over...

Tux in box

[LinuxGeek]

The Linux version should be in the same box as the Windows release, Tux is even on the box cover. The Mac version will be boxed seperately.

Hope my pre-order shows up soon... :)

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[TheCoop1984]

Do you know roughly what % of retail copies run on linux then?

Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

How much money are they making on licensing the engine?
They supply a key with every CD. So if the game servers require a key, you cannot pirate the game - even if it is Open Source.

Runs on TNT2

[G3ckoG33k]

Yes it does!

PIII-700 with a TNT2 M64

Low-end...

I may have 15-20 fps but runs with a fair amount of visual goodies anyhow!

Amazing, considering the age of the card.

You are correct about maps

[Sycraft-fu]

The Unreal Engine, be it orignal, UT2003, modified, whatever, was made to host maps on a speperate server. The UT server itself will send maps and other files, if it must, but at the same max rate as whatever the max client data rate is. This is done so the server doesn't screw people playing because someone is downloading.

What you are supposed to do is setup a web server that holds all the maps, textures, sounds and such that you need. You then set a redirector in the UT config to the web server. When a client needs a file, they get sent there, which then proceeds to send at the maximum rate possible as ber HTTP.

An additonal advantage is that the HTTP redirect supports compression. You can zip up the files (50% size on average) with the UCC program. They then download compressed and decompress on the client side, saving bandwidth and time.

So if you run a UT server, of any version, host the maps on a web server and setup a redirect. It can be on the same physical hardware if you like, or a completely different host, whatever works. However don't have the UT server itself serve up the data, it isn't efficient.

Because they make better engines?

[Sycraft-fu]

I mean, I liked BF1942 and all, neat game design and fun to play. However it's engine sucked. Poor framerate, given the quality, shitty bot logic, etc. iD and EPIC, however, produce engines that drive many games. CS infact is Halflife engine which is, believe it or not, based on the Quake engine.

As a geek site, I can see the focus on engine games like UT2004. The big deal isn't the game itself, though I've no doubt it will sell well and be played plenty. The big deal is the new version of the Unreal Engine, which acts as the foundation of many games. Deus Ex 2 and Splinter Cell are two receant games that are Unreal Engine that quickly come to mind.

It is the same thing for the latest iD engine. Many, many games are based on one iD engine or another. As I noted, the Halflife enigine comes from the Quake engine. There are also tons of other games based off of new incarnations such as Call of Duty and Jedi Knight.

Then, of course, there is the fact that both developers support Linux whereas BF1942 does not. This makes a difference, given the Linux slant of /.

Mod parent up!

[Walkiry]

I'm outta mod points...

AMD64 performance

[Anonymous Coward]

Will there be a 64bit release?
I played the demo on a 32bit and 64bit linux, but there was no difference in performance. Will the gold version take advantage of AMD64?

suppressing fire

[slaida1]

I think much better suppressor would be grenade launcher with smoke grenades and better yet, toxic liquids. They'd not see anything, would be occupied pulling hazmat suits and gas masks on and best of all, probably dying.

Nucular waepons of muss distracton, hello world and goodbye.

HALO's physics are better

[blakespot]

I've always been a big UT fan. UT2K3 pretty much, as well. But HALO's physics are far more realistic. Feels much more real, in the vehicles. Better pace to them as well.

HALO is alot easier on my dual G4 800's CPU's than UT2K3 or UT2K4, as well. GeForce 4Ti. Tho UT's maps are more vibrant and texturous.

blakespot

Dont forget CS

[Bilange]

Counter Strike hit the multiplayer gaming quite hard too. So hard that today, theres a Quake3 mod (Threewave?) where you can play "a la CS", die and wait for a team winning. I dont know all the details, but its a mix of CTF and CS, and its called CaptureStrike.

Racing games and realist.

[Bilange]

I seriously dont call a game realistic when theres no horn in the cars, like Need For Speed Underground IIRC

Re:everybody interested in having more games on Li

[Anonymous Coward]

Run the single-monitor X server alongside your normal X server. Then you can use Ctrl+Alt+F8 to switch to it (and Ctrl+Alt+F7 to go back to the first one). (Keys may be slighly different depending upon distribution's preference of XFree86 setup.)

atmosphere

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want atmosphere, the best recent creation is Metroid Prime for the GameCube. PC shooters seem to care about other things now.

Why no Vehicles in CTF?

[JavaLord]

The Vehicles are great. But why didn't they put them into Deathmatch and CTF? DM and CTF just seem like boring rehashes of the ut2k3 versions with new maps.

Re:Why no Vehicles in CTF?

[kiddailey]

Are you certain that they're not in DM and CTF? As with UT2003, putting vehicles in maps was as simple as loading up the editor and adding a spawn point, so I don't see why it would be any different -- especially considering the weaponry is available to take down the vehicles while on foot.

If it isn't that easy, you can bet a mod will be made that makes it so shortly after it's released :)

linux geeks please help me

[WormholeFiend]

WinXP blew up on me this morning on my desktop, and I'm really starting to be fed up with it.

Could I use some flavor of linux as my desktop OS?

What I'd need to survive is:

internet browser
movie file player that supports all the current codecs
a photoshop-like utility
a word processor (if it makes files compatible with wordperfect and msword it's a plus)
a firewire movie capture, processing and compressing (DivX, Xvid, etc) utility
cd-rom burning utility

UT2k4 for linux coming out just might be reason for me to switch.

and would I need help setting it up if I dont know anything about linux?

Re:linux geeks please help me

[cthulhubob]

Easily, I'd say:

1) Mozilla (http://mozilla.org)
2) Mplayer (http://mplayerhq.hu)
3) GIMP (http://gimp.org)
4) OpenOffice (http://openoffice.org)
5) Cinelerra (http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3)
6) K3B (http://www.k3b.org)

Not knowing anything about Linux, I would recommend having a friend help you set up your computer and having him available once in a while to ask how to do stuff. You'll get the hang of the OS pretty quickly though. I got my friend up and running with Fedora Core 1 a couple of weeks ago, and he just installed the mouse gesture plugin for Mozilla by himself yesterday. I'm so proud. *sniff*

Re:linux geeks please help me

[WormholeFiend]

Fthang you, cthulhubob!

Re:linux geeks please help me

[Da VinMan]

I'm not trolling here, but if you can't keep WindowsXP running then you really shouldn't be playing with Linux.

Seriously.

My experience with both is fairly deep and, invariably, people who have problems with Windows just don't know what they're doing. Or they have faulty hardware and just don't know it yet. That's a much more frustrating situation that's going to Linux doesn't help either.

If you're one of those people who wants his computer to always "just work" without extensive configuration, downloading, tweaking, and research then Linux is not for you. Linux HAS gotten a lot easier to use, but you'll need to install a lot more than just the base OS if you want to do all the above, including playing UT2004 and probably other games.

Anyway, I'm not writing this to be nasty or anything, but I have seen more than one hopeful Linux user go down in flames and return, dispirited, to the Windows world. If you go in with your eyes open and with realistic expectations, you may find the experience to be a rewarding one. Just don't buy into the hype, and you'll avoid some disappointment. That's true of Windows too, BTW.

Re:linux geeks please help me

[WormholeFiend]

thanks for your opinion. I'm not a Windows newbie... I patch my system whenever MS releases them, I keep my drivers up to date and I go through all the diagnostics everytime. I also read and implement those Windows tweaks which I think will help me.

From reading the threads here at slashdot, I came to believe that Linux was more stable than Windows, which is why I'm looking at a switch right now.

Just from the installation size of the distros, Linux seems less "heavy" than WinXp... Is it THAT much harder to configure?

Re:linux geeks please help me

[Anonymous Coward]

In all honesty you have no right to use a PC if you can't get XP running and keep it running. If you think XP, with it's idot proofing and darned good stability, is hard, wait until you get a gander at craptacular Linux in all of it's myriad flavors and versions.

Re:linux geeks please help me

[Anonymous Coward]

Opposite for me. Maybe I'm just twisted, but I have a much easier time, for instance, configuring X than fiddling with M$ "settings". Takes a little longer, but I enjoy (much of) it. Maybe it has something to do with looking at detailed options (all the way to source code) rather than a slider going from "performance" to "quality" or some such.

Re:linux geeks please help me

[hogger]

Have you got a Linux Users Group (LUG) close by? If so then I'd recommend going to one of their meetings . You'll likely find plenty of linux geeks eager to help there. If you don't have a LUG nearby then I'd recommend downloading the ISO for a linux newbie-friendly distro (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ for instance), burn it to a CD, and try it out. Mandrake's install wizard will resize your existing WinXP partition to free up space for linux, and automatically create a dual-boot selection so you can choose your OS when you boot.

Also, you wouldn't necessarily need to live nearby a LUG to seek assistance from them. We geeks at my local LUG (http://www.carlug.org) are more than happy to help anyone that cares to ask for help on our mailing list.

Regarding the programs you're seeking:

browser: mozilla firefox
email: mozilla thunderbird
movie player: mplayer
graphics editor: gimp
word processor: openoffice
firewire movie import: Cinelerra
dvd rip to divx: dvdrip
cdrom burning: k3b

Good luck.

Re:linux geeks please help me

[Da VinMan]

Linux CAN be as easy to get running to your taste as Windows. It's really a matter of choosing the right distro.

But, the problems/challenges come about when you want to start customizing things in a meaningful way. For instance, a video driver upgrade under Linux can be a real PITA. There are plenty of examples of rough edges that can be found in Linux or Windows really. It's just that, if you're going to switch from one to the other, then don't be casual about it. Be a little more serious, do your research, or you will find your experience lacking. Linux is not a silver bullet for everything that's wrong with Windows; it has its own baggage. The reverse is also true. You're truly not in Kansas anymore when you leave Windows behind. That's all. It's quite doable; you just need to learn and then take into consideration the real differences between them.

If you're willing to spend some time with it, Linux can be a real pleasure to use.

*After March 14?* WTF?

[dbretton]

What are they thinking? After March 14th (Steak & BJ Day), what guy is gonna feel the need to go frag someone into kibble?

This is real...

[Captain_Chaos]

Why was this modded Funny?

Re:This is real...

[bigwang]

"It also has some kind of emblem that adds either 50HP to your car or 2ghz to your pc (whichever you apply it to)" Because everybody knows the more case badges on your PC the fastar it is, and the more R-type stickers on your honda the fastar it is.

My hands are hurting...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and my eyes are bleeding already just from the demo ;-)

Anyone see this as a Tribes killer?

[El Camino SS]

Personally I love Tribes, but the whole feel of onslaught smells like Tribes to me.

I guess that Tribes, after years of being out, is finally dead and buried, and the dream of Tribes Vengeance is going to be swept under the rug by UT.

That is the way that it feels to me. All of the vehicles and weaponry just smell like Tribes, especially all of the movement, and all of the speed.

Re:Anyone see this as a Tribes killer?

[mrcottonmouth]

I thought the new tribes vengence is to be based on the unreal engine. But you may be right, I'm totally addicted to ut2004.

Get drunk

[ultrafunkula]

Why not get drunk before you play? This will make your aiming more "realistic".

Yeah!

[KeeperS]

The original Unreal is great. I really love the single player experience, which the Unreal Tournaments don't really have by themselves, and Unreal 2 failed at delivering. Still, single player Unreal is alive and kicking. If you like single player, check out UnrealSP.Org.

I saw someone speed hacking

[CrazyJim0]

Instead of turning my own on, I decided just to stop playing the game.

Speed hack = No fun

Don't steal this game!

[catphile]

I don't know if anyone's still reading this thread, but I really want to point out that while it's all fine and good to steal from Microsoft and Adobe, thou shalt not steal from game developers! The guys at Epic deserve their payday, so cough up the $40 and encourage developers to make more awesome titles. And if anyone asks you to use your geek knowledge to help them get a warez copy of the game, tell them to go out and buy it.

But how do you get the rebate?

[catphile]

I've seen it written for a while now that we, the owners of 2003 will get a rebate, but how? Was I supposed to keep the packaging the game shipped in? I suspect so, and as someone who rationally recycles boxes things come in, I have no way to "prove" i bought and paid for 2003. I mean, thanks for the rebate, but I doubt I'll see it.

Vehicles rule

[Snyke]

Yep the vehicles are a cool addition but they make it necessary to play in very big maps (see ons_torlan...) and therefore they aren't as detailed as the UT2003 ones.

Another thing I really don't like about UT2004 are the assault levels:
They are *cool* but they seem as if it's a race and not the old defender-attacker thing I know from other games.