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Rio Reveals iPod Mini Slayer
Remik writes "Rio has released a limited edition of its new hard drive based player called Carbon. Coming in lighter and denser (3.2oz with 5 GB of storage) than the Ipod Mini with the same price tag $249, twice the battery life, and nearly the same dimensions. Rio has only made 500 players available in the initial offering, so get one while they last. There's more info at cNet, Pocket Lint and Gizmodo. Highlights: Drag and drop file transfer, charging over USB and Janus compliance."
Does it come in pink?
Indeed, this looks AWESOME, but it's lack of the magical iPod Click Wheel will be the singular feature that kills this product. The click wheel really is the best hardware UI, ever.
They missed one thing though. The iPod Mini is pretty, this one looks like someone drop a clump of dough, and stuck a display and some buttons in it. But I guess some people like the look of dough!
"copy" looks like a decent piece of machinery. but how lame is it that they've copied so many design characteristics from the ipod? look at the "commemorative" packagaing, which looks almost exactly like the ipod's packaging. and laser engraving on the chromed rear cover of a music player? wow, innovative.
Highlights: Drag and drop file transfer
Let's just hope it's scratch resistant and shock proof!
a whole 500. Sounds like someone doesn't really have anything, but needs to pump a stock price.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
If it's because of the MicroDrive being used in players like the iPod mini, why not start selling iPod full size players in 5GB amounts? It would really be nice to see these "iPod killers" drop below the $200 price tag.
Yeah, this thing has everything. Except it's really ugly.
Once again, the competition needs to realize Apple's success is not due to its technical dominance but rather its popular dominance. The iPod (mini) is a part of mainstream pop culture. This new device does not look to replace the mini anytime soon.
I would not buy this for the same reason i would not buy the iPod from hp
Chicks love apple
fifteen jugglers, five believers
Once again the competition fails to grasp the fact that you cannot easily scan through over 1000 songs with a nub and your thumb. The iPod will continue to be No. 1 because its interface is that much better than its competitors.
Anyone else notice the glaring typo's in the system requirements (MAC and spave)? Seems a little rushed to me.
Apple, and other companies have to pay for the proc, casing, etc, HD costs I doubt are different no matter what size they get aside from perhaps as soon as new large ones come out. My guess, a 40 costs the exact same or slightly more than a 20 gig. That said, The iPod mini is made of different materials but still requires things like the click wheel, the processor, and other stuff. Size does not dictate cost, parts dictate costs... not to mention market deman and Job's ego. But dang I want an iPod mini.
...does it support Ogg Vorbis?
Oh and don't mod me flamebait, I'm serious! Because the Rio Karma DOES support Ogg.
moderators, while moderating parent, please keep in mind the definition of the word "gay":
happy, joyful, lively, festive, bright, colourful.
thank you.
IMNSHO, one of the things, if not the main thing that makes the iPods and iPod Minis great is the interface.
However, I see no hints in the pictures as to what the interface is like except for the thumb-wheel on the top right. The Pocket Lint article mentions that the interface is the same as the Rio Karma, which I have never used. Can anyone enlighten us as to how the interface compares with the iPods's?
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
While I'd agree with you that the thing is damn ugly, I'd take exception about the issue of Apple's dominance.
The iPod is beautiful and it has a killer interface. Anyone can use it, and it is very intuitive. Each iteration seems to get incrementally more user-friendly and marginally better-looking, too.
This monstrosity that is a so-called "iPod-slayer" looks hideously cumbersome to use.
Why so few? WTF?
John Kerry is a Joke!
Janus compliance? Is that supposed to be a good thing(TM)? All the more reason not to buy one.
A bit off-topic, but wasn't Janus a common symbol fo r duplicity and untrustworthiness in past (and post-Roman) times, as he had a face looking both ways (the saying "two-faced")? So isn't naming a DRM product Janus like naming an airline "Icarius"? Sure he had wings and could fly but...OTOH some would argue that being DRM and MS, Janus is an entirely appropriate name...
What's with the month old news? The linked articles were all published August 2nd through 4th.
Astroturf?
Blue skies, Barthy Burgers, girls...
This device doesn't have to kill the iPod mini. In a world where Apple has to license a killer product to HP to solve the under capacity of it's manufacturers, Rio just has to put a comparable device into the market to reap the benefits.
The fact that Rio made it with better specs than iPod mini will likely help it with consumers who want the most bang for the buck. This is probably a good strategy if you're going after the late comers to the market (after the early adopter's demand has been met). However, Apple's move to leave the iPod mini's specs the same for the HP version seem to indicate they still think it can command premium prices from those looking to be trendy. These people usually are not the late comers. This is an interesting difference of opinion for the execs in each company.
Only real question is what were the Rio execs thinking when they limit the production run to 500 to artificially constrain demand and feably try to generate excitement. If they think they have an iPod mini killer, they should push like crazy to build awareness. A production run of 500 is just too small.
*Sigh*, no ogg vorbis this time around.
I think I'll stick with my iriver, thanks.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
As soon as someone comes out with a good replacement folks will start the argument all over again, which is better the apple or the (insert non apple product here)
As someone who just had his Rio Karma die a sad, hard-drive clicky death, I don't think I'll be buying another hard drive based music player from Rio until they decide to up the warranty.
.ogg files, which is why I got the Karma in the first place. But if they can't produce something which lasts, I say don't bother. What were they thinking, putting exposed moving parts on something people will be putting in backpacks and pockets?
I had 3 Karmas die on me: the first after a month (under warranty; the power button stopped working). Then the replacement died after 2 weeks because an exposed wheel got knocked out of place while it was in my bag. It took over a month to get the third one back from RMA, and that one just died from hard drive failure, out of warranty. Overall, Rio had my karma in RMA longer than I had a working unit.
I've got most of my music as
I don't see any Xiph.org formats listed anywhere which means it's quite useless to me.
buffy had a kid.
Well, since this ugly thing with a bad UI won't be slaying the iPod Mini any time soon, I suppose it means that you should only listen to Slayer on this thing.
As only 500 of them will come, I'd say, they might prevent 500 potential mini iPod buyers to give Apple their money...
So, I'd rather compare these to some kamikaze as once sold, mini iPod will continue their market penetration.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
for the lazy. From May 3, 2004
It's 500 for the limited edition Rio Carbon. The only difference between the limited edition and the regular version is a "collectors box", laser engraving, and a 3 month - 20 song pass on napster.r io/LE/
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/email/
"Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
Here's why:
All the components are (essentially) the same, except the hard drive. The hard drive for the iPod is a 1.8" part, and the mini uses an even smaller 'microdrive' that is the same form as a compactflash card, IIRC.
The 4GB microdrive costs about as much as the 15GB minidrive, hence the cost parity.
Rarely does speed/size equate exactly with price, there's a bottom-limit and a steep upward-curve as you move from low-cost to high-end electronics.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
the blurb is very mistaken. Rio is only making 500 limited edition Carbons (with the laser etched back). The Carbon is widely availible (without the laser etching and the nice box).
They claim OS X support, but then on their software page only have the firmware as an EXE... Guess Mac users never have to reflash their player?
This sig intentionally left justified.
This is so strange, just like the Ipod it doesn't have a built-in radio. I can't imagine why, the extra cost and size is minimal, and many people want to hear radio (news) occasionally.
It is strange since all MP3 players from taiwan/japan and european manufacturers have radios (often even the capability to record radio directly). Just Apple and RIO don't. Is it an american peculiarity, is radio so impopular in the US?
man, it seems like the media keeps coming out with these new "ipod killer" ads, yet most consumers just look at it as non-ipod-trash. well, maybe not, but -- it seems none of these are really hurting the ipod's sales enough to earn them such titles.
Rio has consistently had poor hardware and hardware that consistently fails. I bought 5 rio devices for friends/family some time ago. None of them survived over 3 months and all the work to get new equipment wasn't worth the hassle. The mp3 players in specific just consistently continued to fail. After a good three tries everyone just gave up. Just to be sure I didn't get a bad batch a couple of people also said their rio devices died on them.
I don't care what they make, I won't be buying rio ever again. Obviously this is just an observation of my experiences and other third party heresay. However that's a total of a good 10 people. Enough to tell me that it's not just me. Most of them got ipods already and my brother just got one as well.
So i'm gonna just get myself an ipod and see how it fairs. I'd do the whole christmas buy an ipod thing but this time around i'll just think of something else.
When will companies learn that human interface is key, and should be just as important in the design process as the physical hardware and aesthetics. Apple has always seemed to have a firm grip on this, but others seem lacking these days. Without a good understandable and efficient interface, the best hardware is worthless in the mind of the acerage consumer.
The Property of One's : "The Oneitude is directly proportional to the Colditude of the one." - S.B.
If you listen to Slayer loud enough on it, I hear you'll get super pissed and kill someone with a real iPod mini. Then you can take it and listen to your Slayer on the iPod mini instead.
hey!
Not just an iPod 'beater' or an iPod 'killer', it is the iPod slayer I suppose there are so many of those by now, that people had to come up with a new term for this one...
Fuck "cool". I've never been cool in my life, and I don't miss it. I bought an iPod because it works better.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
The ipod is a box, Joeseph. The ipod is a box. A white, shiny box, but still a box. I see people still walking around with CD walkmans, and I laugh at the large size and general bad battery life, but those chrome disc looking things still look better than a friggin box.
I mean, sure you can store more music on an ipod, but where are you going, oh Cain from Kung Fu, that you need 2000 of your favourite tracks resting on your hip? I use a nomad muvo, 60 tunes, size of my thumb, battery life is exremely good, and it uses generic AAA batteries, rechargeable.
Oh yeah, and can you say no moving parts? But still, if lugging a hefty hard drive around with you suits your taste, go for it. Chicks may dig apple, but they come over all curious about the muvo, heheh...
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Mini pods suck anyway, but /.'ers are not really the target for them.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
What sucks about them? They seem to be doing pretty darn well...
They're well designed, rugged, and poplar. I wish more products "sucked" like that.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Absolutely. I'm as guilty of apple fanboy status as anybody, but you've nailed it right on the head--the way to beat the iPod is at its own game. Commodity mp3 players are losing. Direct competitors (look, we make a product that is just as cool!) will lose.
So Apple is the BMW of digital music players right now? Remember a couple years ago when an Escalade was *the* status symbol vehical? Then the H2 came out? If Rio wants to win, they need to make an H2... something even more elite and ostentatious than the iPod.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
This certainly looks like an interesting test of the waters with only 500 units. Good or bad, these will probably become a hit on eBay. I really haven't looked lately, but I still haven't heard of any WMA based services that are the equivalent of ITMS in terms of ease of use and the not hassling too much about burning CDs of purchased music. Stylish player packaging is nice, but I bought an iPod because the whole package was attractive and easy to use. I think though, if Microsoft's upcoming ITMS clone is any good, then things will get really interesting.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
...Doesn't this describe most of the low-end Apple demographic?
-big clunky beige boxer
The buzzword a few years ago for new FPS games was "Halo Killer" (especially for that awful game kill.zone). And yet, still, every FPS has yet to trump Halo in popularity.
Now the buzzword is "iPod killer." Methinks Apple is still going to be selling these at the current rate for a while yet, so welcome your not-very-new iPod mini overlords.
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
If Rio wants to win, they need to make an H2... something even more elite and ostentatious than the iPod.
The Cadillac of mp3 players.
In case you didn't get the joke, it's because Caddys and H2s are incredibly tacky. People who try to be elite and ostentatious frequently end up with rediculous. Nothing quite like the understated beauty of a BMW.
bit trollent
Roget's Thesaurus: Entry 19 (Imitation) - [snipped down to a list of words I felt were most applicable]
copying, duplication, reproduction, xerox, facsimile, simulation, impersonation, personation, semblance, parody, take-off, lampoon, caricature, plagiarism, forgery, counterfeit, imitator, echo, parrot, mime, imitate, copy, mirror, reflect, reproduce, repeat, do like, match, mimic, simulate, impersonate, follow suit, follow the example of, walk in the shoes of, take a leaf out of another's book, strike in with, follow suit, take after, model after, emulate, mimic.
Finally, in the words of Wordsworth, "like - but oh! how different! "
Thanks to the Project Gutenberg thesaurus
Prior to Chris Bangle becoming the design head at BMW I might have agreed. Now the new series of BMWs poliarise opinion like never before. Though they're still better than any Caddy or H2.
As for the iPod it is a shiny, white box but it's a shiny, white box with pleasing proportions, a well-regarded user interface and a logo that is regarded as being elitist but accessible.
Oh and it plays music too.
The mini is slightly less convincing from an industrial design pov but has the other advantages.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
I registered an account just to post on this topic. For Rio to beat anything at all they'd have to have equal customer service. As it stands they don't. I own a karma. The shitty rio stick broke. I am a real careful guy so I don't know how it happened but the piece of shit broke. Literally broke right off. I don't want to lambaste the mechanical design but the workmanship just seemed shoddy. Then the rio wheel slipped off. All within 2 months of ownning the thing. Fine maybe I got a shitty one whatever I'll RMA it. First thing I noticed customer service is outsourced and is area code 650. Meaning I had to pay to talk to someone who can only handle tier 1 problems. Fine, that's the way it's down now. Sure enough after 3 15 minute phonecalls and two messed up RMA numbers given to me on " accident " I got my RMA number, sent the package in. To an address in Texas. Paid for priorty mail. Fine. Package got lost. Of course. Called Back to 650 customer service. Had it escalated from call center in India to something called legacy support - another third party CS agency. Within the span of one month they had done nothing to return my calls so I began emailing them They intially explained the lack of calls as they had gotten the wrong address and phone number for me; someone in India took my information down incorrectly. They (Rio Customer service) ended up discussing my situation with someone who they thought was my wife. I am not married, and don't even live in the same state as the person they called. They then got the tracking number I e-mailed them wrong 6 times. I wanted to document to them that I emailed it but they got it wrong 6 fucking times. I put in the number in the title the signature, everywhere. They still got it wrong. Mind you they never once called me back. Eventually I cut and pasted it from the USPS website. Magically they then learned that I was in fact telling the truth, but that no one at their texas RMA office could be found to sign for the package so it was never documented as being recieved. Finally I got the matter escalated to a supervisor. At this point it had been one and half months. They not only refused to give me the supervisor's e-mail. They refused to return my phone calls. This lasted two weeks. I finally faxed a copy of every e-mail to their coroporate office, two days later I got a response via e-mail my karma would arrive today. It did. So after nearly two months and 30$ I got it back. Yay. Sorry I just had to rant and wanted to warn peopel about RIO. I'll be making a webpage filled with e-mails and dates and times documenting the veracity of my claim. So it's not that I wish to drum up support here. Please note though that when you buy from a company you buy into their customer service. I own a ibook. I've had amazing customer service from apple. I have had the worst customer service expierence of my life with RIO. That in my opinion is why Rio can't be an Ipod Killer. They don't have the customer service for it.
That is the limited edition. The normal version will be made in greater numbers.
...it looks ugly.
--
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer.
Battery life and dependability are the two most important "features" in such a box. So I think I'll be sticking to my 3 year old sony MD. It's taken a shitload of abuse, and runs forever on 1 AAA.
"The Rio Carbon is capable of holding up to 80 hours of MP3 (160 hours WMA) music**"
"**At 128kbps MP3, 64kbps WMA."
Wow!
-Why do I bother?
As ugly or bad this player may be, it primarily sucks because it still does not support Ogg.
When can we finally get a player to play royalty-free stuff?
echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net@madduck
I realise this. That is why I put "post-Roman times" in my original post.
Apple needs to hire the Microsoft astroturfers because you guys suck. ;->
True, the larger Toshiba drives offer more bang for the buck. However, Toshiba doesn't produce 5 gig drives anymore. As I recall, they produce 20, 40, and 60 gig drives right now.
Capacity may go up... but manufacturing, materials, and equipment costs usually remain the same. Even if Toshiba still produced new 5 gig drives, they'd still be pricey.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Rio doesn't get it, at least as far as consumers like me are concerned. I could get a player with more space, better spec and cooler whizbangs, but if it still looks like a turd dropped by the terminator robot, i don't want it. The ipod mini is awesome not becuase it's the absolute best, but because it's got the packaging that makes it feel really nice and spiffy to use, and I don't feel like a git when somone looks at what i'm carrying. even the normal ipod doesn't cut it for me. when will people stop using chrome on thier gadgets!?
Do you really think anyone beyond apple fan-boys will actualy base their choice of player on the interface? If it it plays music and is easy to use (and yes, it can be easy to use without using a clickwheel) it will sell.
It might be annoying for ipod users who are used to their interface, but they already have MP3 players...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
*sigh* ..... seems like every month Slashdot posts the new 'ipod slayer' or 'ipod killer'.
What the slashdot crowd seems to fail to realise is that releasing a device with a bigger hard drive or longer battery life or some other fancy technical specification doesn't make it an 'ipod killer'. The ipod excels in many other areas - design, ease-of-use, reputation etc.
Making it worse, these 'ipod killers' are often a joke. They'll have say one technical aspect thats better than the ipod, but on pretty much everything else will fail (i.e. a bigger hard drive but crappy user interface and too big and ugly design etc). Sony's 'ipod killer' is the worst example - release a device crippled with DRM and requiring transcoding to Sony's dead ATRAC format with the resulting awful sound quality and post on slashdot about it killing the ipod. Which is of course a pity because Sony's engineers - if they weren't handcuffed by their music division - could very likely produce a superior product.
The ipod will of course not remain dominant forever, but it'll take more than a device with just a big hard drive or battery - and with only 500 available - to remove it from the throne.
Laser engraving? Even the box it comes in looks exactly like the iPod box.
Rio has a habit of producing mp3 devices that are dependent on propriatary windows software.
I was considering the rio-nitrus for a while untill I found out that it used an encrypted hard drive, and was in NO WAY compatible with Linux.
And it also remains to be seen how much it will cost to replace this battery in 1yrs time when they start wearing out.
Seriously, can anyone give me a GOOD reason why a company, like Rio, would not want other people to write extensions to thier devices?
I would rather be ashes than dust!
If I slapped a nice LCD screen on top of a cassette player and stuck in my sneaker, could I get /. to call it the next iPod obliterator/dominator/masticator? How about taping a transistor radio to a toothbrush (get all your favorite music AND good dental hygiene!).
Seriously, every single portable media player is touted as an iPod killer. Can't something be a competitor, or alternative, or just hanging out having a smoke?
Not that I really care, I don't own an iPod, but these "killer" headlines are starting to sound like the "BSD is dead" troll.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
... because it is small handy and unlike the bigger model it is not so heavy that it pulls my jacket pocket down to my knee, I usually only listen to a few tracks on each CD so there is plenty of space for my favorite music, it is out-of-the-box compatable with OS.X/iTunes and ... well ... yes, I suppose it looks kinda cool. The only complaint is that that white belt clip that comes with it can not be trusted. On the positive side my iPod mini has fortunately survived two trips to the floor and is still ticking.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
He's not astroturfing. He spent almost no time praising Apple, just bashing one competitor in a crowded field.
May we never see th
Why doesn't it have a radio receiver, ha? I don't want to be limited to my mp3 collection!!!!
-0-0- idle
The suppored formats of the flash-based iFP-700 series include all important audio formats like MPEG 1/2/2.5 Layer 3, OGG and yes the dreaded WMA.
Capacities range from 125MB (the iFP-780) to 1GB. The iFP series can also record from its built-in FM tuner or mike, which makes it a handy tool for reporters (though IANAL and don't know if digital recordings are admissible in court).
The iFP is also "well-supported" by the opensource movement with a SourceForge page devoted to a hardware-specific driver . Support for the use of the iFP as a generic USB Mass Storage device is also available.
I'm a sci-fi vegan: I don't want the aliens to think we have as much right to live as the fried chickens we eat.
I've just ordered an iAudio M3, because IMO the iPod is useless. Why? Because it doesn't have many of the features I want in a player.
The iRiver, iAudio etc all have customers because they provide something different to what Apple is offering. Obviously it is not what the masses want because the easy interface and pretty looks are clearly appealing to most people.
But for some of us, it's just another player that isn't what we're looking for.
First off the user interface on Rios products, when combined with the software they employ, is easily as solid as Apple's line-up (more so IMHO in regards to the Karma, but that's just MHO). Regardless, your statement has ZERO merit since you provide no evidence WHY the Apple interface is superior.
That aside, the Carbon blows the iPod mini out of the water. First off the drive it uses is from Seagate and is 1gb larger. If I had to pick two companies I trust in HD tech it would be Seagate and WD, and while Toshiba is also pretty solid HDs aren't their main business.
Next we'll move onto another huge aspect of these players, battery life. The Carbon is cited, and this is a CONSERVATIVE estimate by Rio, at 20 hours. 20 hours! I mean that's TWO days of full use assuming you aren't using it constantly. The iPod mini TOPS OUT (and this is Apple's website here) at 8 hours. I mean is there even a comparison?
In terms of physical appearance I would vote without blinking for the Carbon. Maybe other people like their technology devices to be Muave or Coral Pink or something and look like a lighter, but I generally like sleek looking futuristic products with a bit of an edge. I think the Carbon looks pretty sharp in all ways, though I'd rather have blue in place of red for the keypad coloring. However, cosmetics are entirely personal, so this is kind of off topic.
What else is worth mentioning... WMA support which is, regardless of what Apple maniacs might say, much more useful than proprietary AAC support (face it, the world will use WMA DRM whether you like it or not). I don't purchase music online (so I have no use for WMA support), but its good for some folks.
Voice recorder... mini doesn't have it, Carbon does. Again I don't use it, but its a feature.
Basically the feature set of Rio's products is already LIGHT YEARS ahead of Apple, and it only seems to be growing. To bash the Carbon because it doesn't use a click wheel you like (and I hate) seems ridiculous to me. And the funny thing is that while I have a Karma I would NEVER buy a Carbon OR an iPod mini... I think a 4-5gb player at the price of a 20gb player is for morons.
In short, judge the devices on their merits and try to be at least moderately open-minded here.
-rt
Couple of things- first, my Rio Nitrus has been running great for about a year. I see all these annecdotes above about problems with Rio players, but every hardware model issued has had a few bad eggs. I've never had a problem with mine, or the two Rio flash drives I've bought for others.
Also- what's with the ugly comments? It could look like a lump of shit (and the Nitrus it's based on doesn't btw), as long as it's small and light. If you need to show off a pretty player, then buy some white earbuds- they're still going to trail down to a player in your pocket no one can see.
This thing is functional and (eventually) will be cheaper than the mini when they do a full production run. More storage, better battery length- what's not to like?
If you're one of those people that would never run a killer system in a beige box, then maybe this is not for you. If you can't live without a little window to see your nifty LED lights bouncing off fans, then buy a mini.
I'd issue a fatwah against the white wires, but I'm still waiting for approval for my previously proposed fatwah- death to all those turning their collars up on polo shirts. Silver Spoons wannabe motherfuckers- you ain't Ricky Schroder, bitch.
no, it doesn't run Linux, and it doesn't run on Linux. I'm worried my girlfriend will buy it and then i'll be forced to make a partition for Windows again. Sigh...where will i put all my downloaded p0rn then? Though i have to say, it looks damn pretty.
Gnome: A never ending quest to make unix friendly to people who don't want unix and excruciating for those that do.
It supports Janus, you know, DRM and all that.
Are people still going to buy this product? Do you put action into your words, or are they just empty threats?
I'd like to see THIS digital music player:
Inexpensive and reliable 60+ GB notebook hard drive.
More battery capacity, in an inexpensive, standard, replaceable battery format.
Larger display, for my 40 something eyes.
Standard hard drive file storage, so I can mount it and drag & drop files. Works with any OS, no special music download software needed, can serve as a portable data backup or transfer device.
Support for all popular audio codecs, including MP3, Ogg, etc.
No digital rights management crap. I rip my CDs and copy them to the player. Period. I don't need the RIAA in my business every time I want to copy my CD to my portable player.
Hotswap cradle to charge the player, copy tunes and connect to external powered speakers, just like my my Karma 20.
A good built in FM transmitter so an FM car radio can be used.
Admittedly, most people want a "smaller is better" MP3 player, not the less expensive 2X sized device I'd like to have, but I think there's a market for it. I have no use for a 5 GB player that stores 1/3 of my CD collection. I can see a use for tiny 256 MB players for people who want a couple of albums while they run, bike, commute, etc. But I'm spoiled by carrying my entire music collection. I frequently have a chance meeting with someone and play an obscure song for them, and the odds it'd be in a 256 MB device are slim. Besides, I never know what I want to hear ahead of time.
Bonus! Here's a free music download link from Tempus that I saw on /. Good stuff, reminiscent of Dave Mathews:
http://www.tempusband.com/mp3.html
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
3.2oz with 5 GB of storage
Cool.
same price tag $249
Good.
twice the battery life
Awesome!
Drag and drop file transfer
The Gold standard! Nothing less will be accepted!
charging over USB
Sweet.
and Janus compliance
Oh. Never mind.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
First off all, at 192Kbit, this player won't fit a thousand songs. Secondly, who ever scrolls through that many songs trying to find a single anyway? Don't most people, like me, only select a playlist or album?
So the wheel is superior, but do you notice the difference in daily use? I don't on my Creative Zen NX 30Gb, which has better battery life and cost $150 less than the 30Gb iPod when I bought it.
Janus was custodian of the universe and guardian of keys, locks and portals. Had two faces to indicate watchfulness and also to represent looking both into the past and future.
I used a pre-production unit for a couple months; it rocks. It was very small, very responsive (unlike the Nitrus, which was sluggish), could be trickle-charged through USB, and had the option of convenient driver-less file transfer or using various MP3 programs. Sound quality was excellent (I've used many MP3 players - Apple, iRiver, RIO, etc).
However, it doesn't support gapless playback, Ogg, or FLAC (like the Karma) and the pre-production unit didn't come with a case (dunno if the consumer version does or not).
Overall, it was the best hdd-based player I've used (beating out the Karma due to form-factor). The iPods' wheels (I've used 3G, mini, and 4G) are better than the Carbon's, but that's the only advantage the iPod has and the Carbon wheel is adequate.
But as good as the Carbon is, I think I'll go back to solid-state for my next player. The Carbon is light at 3.2 ounces, but the 512MB RIO Forge is under $200, weighs 2 ounces (the difference is noticeable when jogging and biking), comes with an arm-band, has an FM receiver, and has almost no lag whatsoever. Add a 512 MB SD card, and you've got a GB for less than the cost of the Carbon... given the convenience and speed of USB2.0 driver-less file transfer, that's enough storage space.
Anyway, before buying any RIO products, check out the forums at http://riovolution.com/
I don't have to think which tracks I want to listen to during the entire day before I leave the house - I have the choice to make up my mind when I want to listen to the tunes. I don't have to guess my mood throughout the day, and express it in 60 pre-chosen tracks. I have over 6,000 tracks on my iPod, so I can find something to suit my mood every single time. I take it to parties to help out with the music should it be needed. I don't have to guess the ebb and flow of the party in the evening before I leave the house in the morning - I have everything I need right with me.
No moving parts is cool, I guess, but then the iPod copies music from its hard disk to memory before it starts playing, then parks the heads on the disk.
Saying it's just "a box" is pretty silly, especially seeing as it's won all sorts of awards and has become one of the most easily recognisable designs of IT to date. Also, calling it "hefty" is pretty silly, as it fits in my jacket pocket without me even noticing. Hefty implies "considerable" size, which it clearly isn't. CD walkmans, house bricks and SUVs are hefty, iPods are not.
But I like the way this thing looks - I won't give up my iPod to go out and buy it - but I dont agree that it is ugly. As far as UI goes, well I have no idea if the little thumbwheel is any good - but I can't imagine it being great. If your going to scroll through hundreds of songs something a bit faster seems in order, unless you can "pull" the wheel toward you to make fast scrolling, and roll it for slow scrolling then that wouldn't be so bad.
The name iPod Ratt was already taken.
Future models in the line will include the iPod Twisted Sister and the iPod Def Leppard. The whole series is referred to as the "iPod Hair Band".
Clear, Dark Skies
I showed this page to my friend (girl) who was looking at buying an iPod mini.
She said "this looks like an egg. I like the iPod better."
never underestiname the power of good industrial design.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
as competition equal to or better than the iPod begins to emerge Steve Jobs and Apple watch yet another market slip away. Drop the price of this new Rio $50 and it's all over.
Ive got a got a Neuros Plays Ogg Mp3 has Open Source firmware works with Linux fine; the hardisk can be swapped on the fly ( 20G; 40G; 80g) and maaan people do stare when I catch the bus home. The UI is easy to use and there is a site for develeopes/hackers who want to add features..
"I'll take increased functionality or cheaper price over looks any day of the week."
Good for you. However, most people decide based upon more subjective criteria.
The Carbon will not kill the iPod mini - it's too ugly and the specs of iPod mini clears the "good enough" criterion without problem. I also understand that it doesn't have the sexy clickwheel thingy.
Gadgets for Joe Average is about an experience in addition to techincal specs. The Carbon doesn't seem to have what it takes.
Stop the brainwash
They might have refused to license the scroll wheel to Rio. Just like one-click on iTMS - Apple got a license from Amazon, but other companies have to artificially make a song purchase "multi-click". The patent system is retarded in both cases. However, I suspect that some kind of joystick with dynamic speed depending on how far it's tilted would do just as well.
And if they don't have 50% of the mp3 player market, they do have the majority.
?
Oh well, just like the majority voted for Bush I suppose (more like 30% of the electorate)
40-gig firewire hard disk
If I'm going to carry around a hard disk, I'm going to make sure its in a laptop where it can do some good. Not to mention I can load it up over 100mb ethernet. But the point about data transportation is a good one. I just don't see why I wouldn't just get an external hard drive for a third the price.
I have over 6,000 tracks on my iPod
And how many can you play in one sitting before the battery dies? Or were you going to carry the power cable etc along with you as well?
No moving parts is cool
And cheap, long term. In five years the nomad will still be useable. Will the ipod? And before anyone says anything about "mp3s will be outdated by then", you can still buy perfectly serviceable cassette tape players, which play perfectly listenable music.
Saying it's just "a box" is pretty silly
Its a box. Its shaped like a box. With a wheel on it. I weep.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Yeah, it's cool, but where's the:
* AM/FM Tuner (Red Sox games aren't broadcast on FM in Boston)
* Ogg support
* aac support
A CF or other Media expansion slot would be nice, too. And how long before someone makes these things wi-fi (802.11g perhaps) enabled so you don't have to use cables at all -- I know the transfers would be sluggish.
The first small, sub $300 device that comes out with a usable screen for video pictures/etc. is going to clean the floor with the Music-only devices -- and phones don't count.
Diamond made hardware that worked! I still have a Rio 500 thats worked great for cloes to 4 years now. Granted it only has 192 mb of memory...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
First thing I noticed customer service is outsourced and is area code 650.
Area code 650 is Mt. View, Calif., just FYI. I mean, you still could be calling Bangalore, but your call was at least routed through the Bay Area.
I write in my journal
Sorry to post twice, but I forgot to mention this before. Here's your study in contrasts.
I bought an original Apple iPod back when they first were introduced. A couple of months ago the hard drive in it died, and rather than pay the $270 Apple wanted to fix it, I decided to spend about another $100 and get a new model. Upgrade and all that.
Well, wouldn't you know it, I got a bad one. It worked fine out of the box for a couple of days, but then it froze up and couldn't be reset.
I called Apple (I ordered my iPod online) and the guy checked my ZIP code and told me to take it to the Apple store at such-n-such address. I did, waited in line for about 20 minutes (during which I surfed the Net on the G5 at the store). I showed the guy behind the counter my iPod, and he said, "Wait just a minute, please." And he disappeared in the back with my iPod.
About a minute later, seriously in almost no time at all, he emerged and said, "Here you go." And he handed me a brand-new, still-in-the-shrinkwrap iPod box.
Me: "Huh?"
The Guy: "Here's your new iPod. Sorry for the inconvenience."
Me: "What's the catch?"
There was no catch. If your iPod breaks and it's under warranty, take it to an Apple store. They will hand you a new one and send you home. No Bangalore call center, no RMA, no waiting 2-3 weeks, none of that. Just "Here's your new iPod. Sorry for the inconvenience."
That was just cool.
I write in my journal
I'm not intending to listen to all 6,000 at once, but I like to have the choice of which of the 6,000 tracks make up my days listening as I'm going about my daily business, not when I wake up before I leave for the office. It's about choice. As for charging, most people I know have firewire computers, so that's not an issue. The charger is tiny, anyway, and does fit very easily in a pocket.
The iPod will be as usable in 5 years as your Nomad. Hard disks can last over 5 years, you know.
You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about all of this. It's a design icon. Calling it a box shows your true feelings on the matter.
Just a reminder that the Empeg (Linux based car MP3 player) creators work for Rio creating these. Support your friends =) (Love my Rio Karma HD player)
A stylish and uniquely designed box is included and can be a temp or permanent home for your player.
is that unique as in looks just like apple's? my iPod box looks awfully similar..
Next time ask them for their legal department, and an address where you can send a summons. I read about a guy who did this to Sony (when it was clear that they were in the wrong), and they moved *really* fast to fix the problem.
400mb
Would that be bits or bytes there?
it would be 3 times as large, require a seperate power supply, won't be as hard-wearing
Yeah right... And that was after 30 seconds on google. I'm sure I could dig up a firewire version if I had the time or patience...
I'm not intending to listen to all 6,000 at once
Ah but how many can you listen to before the battery dies? I can get 8 to 12 hours out of one AAA battery...
The charger is tiny, anyway, and does fit very easily in a pocket.
Hmmm I see. The charger for my AAA batteries is big and bulky... Good thing I can leave it at home, eh?
Hard disks can last over 5 years, you know
Bouncing around in bags and pockets can be detrimental to hard drives, you know.
It's a design icon.
Its a white box.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
You're absolutely right that Sony's engineers could wipe the floor with the competition if turned loose. I've never used a Sony product that didn't feel handsome and light. Their screens are the brightest and clearest, and their firmware is usually well designed.
In picking critical technologies though, Sony sticks to those which are proprietary, dead, or both. Storage is either MiniDisc (1992 called, they want their format back) or Memory Stick, which I won't even dignify with a rant. Eww. Nevermind that "mp3" is so popular it signifies a societal phenomenon even to non-techies, Sony clings to ATRAC (see 1992, above) and wonders why the NetMD doesn't sell.
Sony also makes horrid Windows-bound software for a lot of their products, where a standard interface would serve everyone better, including Windows users. Who wants to load a custom driver which will never be bugfixed or updated? Ugh.
Sony's cameras could also be second-to-none, if it weren't for MemorySuck and the proprietary battery pack. Their CCD and LCD leadership really shines in cameras, along with excellent optics and all the buttons placed just right.
Do they really think they're making money selling a few memorysticks to suckers gullible enough to lock themselves into Sony products? If they'd recognize the role of standards in the marketplace, they'd be kings. In the meantime, the waste of engineering talent remains a crying shame.
(My camera takes CF cards and AA batteries. My music player handles mp3 and Vorbis. My money goes where the standards are.)
Oh, and I almost forgot, they frequently take a standard connection and make their own plug for it, requiring the user to carry around a special cable. I wish reviewers would figure those cables into the weight of the product. Grrrr.
That hard drive is just that - a hard drive. It isn't firewire (as you said), and it can't play music. If I wanted one of those, I'd have to have TWO devices in my pockets to do what I currently do with ONE.
I can listen to my iPod for about 6 hours before the battery dies. As I said, the number isn't about listening to them all at once, but to give me a choice. I can choose between any one of those songs on the road - you can only choose between 60. There's no contest.
I never take my charger out with me, unless I'm going to a party or on holiday, when I want either a sure-fire, non-portable music source, or if I'm away from a mains plug for a few days.
The iPod hard disk is only used when it's loading songs into RAM. All the other times it's parked, safely.
White box? Right. Great one. That's like saying the Mona Lisa is some paint on some cloth. Sheesh.
The rationale is subtle. You have a list, there are two things you want to do, but it isn't a binary operation. There is a third dimension, speed. How fast do you want to go up and down the list. With the wheel, the speed dimension is related to how fast you move your thumb around the wheel. With the nub, how fast you go up or down the list is how hard you push on the nub. You have to convert dimensions which makes it unnatural (or at least not as natural as with the wheel when you stay within the same dimension).
This argument is completely negated because the wheel isn't at all like moving the mouse up and down for the basic reason that you have to pick the mouse up and move when you run out of space. You will never run out of room with the wheel because, of course, it spins.
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
Whoa there fella, Apple doesn't manufacture anything. At best, they assemble. Hell, even Dell doesn't manufacturer anything anymore and they are nearly 30 times the size of Apple. What you meant to say is that Apple licensed it's design to HP and allowed its contracted manufacturers to sell to HP.
Also, you should really check the history of Rio. They came first by nearly a decade. Apple copied them. That design and interface on the Rio's is from a long, long time ago.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Jesus, that Rio carbon is ugly, I say. I hear you, the true geek say, "Yes, but it has so many features and control buttons". And I say, you still don't get it. The iPod unites three, for your average person important qualities:
1.Beautiful, simple design.
2.Simple interface.
3.Easy to use software.
That's why it's so popular.
Uh... first reaction to this new Rio device is that it is FUGLY.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Hmmm.... that does uniquely look just like the cube box that came with my ipod and isight. Black and white, cubed.
I wonder if it is as cool on the inside though. I still pull out my ipod box and marvel at how wonderful a design it is (Yes, I kept the box. I'm a mac nut and a design nut; I love showing my friends whose toys usually come in brown cardboard or squeaky styrofoa)..
I noticed several things about the Carbon which makes me think Rio has taken a step backwards.
1) USB Transfer...the Rio Karma has a cradle which allows network transfer over ethernet...plug it in and it gets an IP from DHCP server.
2) No support for Linux...the Rio Karma came with Java-based music manager which works splendidly with Linux.
3) No OGG-Vorbis support (that I can tell from their site)...the Rio Karma plays MP3, FLAC, OGG, and WMA. After I ripped my entire music collection to OGG, I'm not about to revert back to MP3. The downside is there seems to have been some early problems with the Karma...my replacement unit has been working fine for 7 months...the original lasted less than 12 days. I hope they've worked out all the kinks on the Carbon.
How did Apple, which got nearly everything else right on a small HD music player, blow it so badly on battery life?
Any theories?
Best Buy can have you arrested
The best part of the iPod mini is the click wheel. I jog a lot and have a difficult time switching songs with the click wheel. Once you get used to it is is fine. This is just ridiculously small.
Forgive me, I can't help but join this little flamewar.
I have a cheap-o Koss MP3 CD player that I paid something like $50 for. To accompany it, I paid $10 for a 24-CD carrying case. That gives me 24*0.7 ~= 17gb of portable storage, albeit in a bulkier form factor (but I don't care, it sits in my backpack). On 2 Ni-MH rechargeable batteries, my CD player runs a good 20 hours. Transfer rates are pretty good too.. 48X CDRW is ~7.2mb/bsec, and once it's burned I can swap a CD in about 5 seconds (open lid, take out old disk, put in new disk, close lid).. a transfer rate of ~140mb/sec.
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
It's not as if the Apple consumers aren't getting real electronics. It's not peanut-butter and tinfoil in there. Yes, there are now players in the same niche with more innards to them.
But, real or imagined, there is a perception that Apple hardware is like driving a Volvo -- they're not nearly as ugly as they used to be, and they're very reliable.
I'd hardly call the decision to buy a product with a good interface from a company with a reputation for reliability than try and buy a cheaper product that might have a few more specs.
(I bought a CD-based portable MP3 player made by Pine the other year, and it got returned within 2 hours since it was so poorly made.)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Thanks for assuming I'm an idiot because I don't share your opinion. Your comment title was particularly helpful, I feel that I am now on the path to true wisdom.
Read Pynchon.
.... and it does work with the iTMS or have the Ipod interface, thus negating any other benefits in my mind.
Next.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
The thing that gets me about the IPod and this are that one simple thing could really make them stand out. Which is a display with not so much a crappy 70's calculator gray background, but a really crisp white/clear background?
So someone's got to know why we can't fix this?
By making 500 units, Rio is really making a statement.
Unlike the iPod mini, which was so successful it blew away Apple's ability to manufacture to meet demand (hence the production run joke), Rio is taking a wait and see approach by only investing in the production of 500 of these units.
My wild-ass-guess is that they want to project market demand with the first run and if numbers come out the way they want, they will build more. If not, then on to the next iPod mini Burninator.
This may be a good for Rio but bad for the early addopters of the pilot devices who get left with an uncommon Rio unit that may well be unsupported soon.
The iPod mini is a sure thing at the same $249 price point and, oh yeah, it plays Fairplay tracks so you don't have to support the evil that is WMA.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
"LIMITED EDITION COLLECTORS BOX
A stylish and uniquely designed box is included and can be a temp or permanent home for your player."
Wow. That's gotta be some box...
The iPod merges in a large storage device with a very functional MP3 player. No media to swap out, no "Oh shit I gotta change the tunes on my mp3 player before I go out", no "damn I wish I could fit this image on one CD to take it home", etc. It's the perfect combination of large capacity storage, MP3-playing goodness and user friendliness.
You forgot the speed of creating a new CD for your player, which is considerably slower than copying the same tracks across firewire, or even USB2...
does it have a 5GB compact flash drive in it, and if so, can I pull it out and use it in my camer/PDA/etc? Anyone know?
>On a scroll wheel you have roll and reposition, roll and reposition, roll and
Or, you could just do what I do on my Nitrus; scroll down by using the joystick. It's easier, faster and more accurate than the scroll wheel. It's nice that the player gives you more than one option for navigation. It seems to me that most of the people bashing the Rio interface have never used one.Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
I posted a story on this and the new Rio Forge players on August 2 that was rejected. I will point out that the Carbon is actually being released now, so maybe that's why it is news now and wasn't then. Of course, when one compares the significance of this to breathless rumors regarding an advertisement for a possible job opening on the iPod development team....
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
than I am Linus Torvalds...
Wtf were they on when they designed that? The interface looks like its no competetion for the ipod mini. Interface isn't everything, but it sure does matter.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Really the IPOD, and this thing are overpriced, toys. For a poor Canadian like myself, here's how it plays out:
1 USD = 1.31762 CAD (according to XE.com)
249.99 * 1.31762 = 329.39
329.39 * 1.15 = 378.80 (taxes)
The 40gb iPod is selling for 634.95 after taxes.
This for a music player/portable hard-drive. I don't care what the cool factor is, this is a lot of money. And if you think that Apple or others price for their international markets, fuggit it.
you're right - it might be funny to the slashdot crowd but "does it come in pink?" (or blue, or neon, or whatever is kewl this month) is increasingly going to be the reason that these things sell over their competitors. For the vast number of buyers, all the models do roughly the same thing (they hold lots of tunes and fit in your pocket). It will move from differentiating models by technical qualities to aesthetic qualities, same as any other consumer product. When's the last time you chose a toaster based on its technical specs? Bet you went for the kewl chrome/curvy/ retro look one...
So you can engrave it.
It comes in a stylish cardboard cube.
It holds music on a tiny hard drive.
It costs $250.
It's small.
It uses a D-Pad almost exactly like my Treo 600.
I'm sorry, but the Treo *sucks* as a media player, and that D-Pad is the main reason *why* it sucks.
It sounds good enough, pTunes handles all the right formats... But it's a bear to control. It's like driving an ice cream truck by gesturing emphatically.
This could be an iPod Mini killer, but it needs a better UI.
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Having only used an iPod, I'm disadvantaged here... but I'm surprised that nobody has commented how utterly easy and fast it is to rip music in iTunes, or buy it from Apple, and have exactly the selections I want (play lists, individual songs, albums) on my iPod.
Every few days I end up with a couple or three more CD's I've acquired (uhhh, licensed) and it's trivial to get the tags, rip them while listening to something else, and then update (possibly "unchecking" items I don't currently want on the 'pod) my choices on the portable. I wouldn't call drag'n'drop anywhere near as good, given the thousands of tracks (hundreds of albums) I have.
Are MusicMatch or the Real jukebox really on par? Or are these things that require above-average skills and patience?
It's not as if these little gizmos work in isolation, there's a whole ecosystem here. Why doesn't anybody mention the quality of the PC support?
"Inquiring Minds Want to Know!"
Unique, my ass. It looks nearly identical to the iPod boxes. And laser engraving on the stainless steel back side. Hrmm
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
I have owned a 3G iPod, and an iPod mini (for my wife), but have recently converted to a Rio Karma for several reasons (standard cradle with ethernet connection, gapless playback, multiple format support, better sound quality, tremendous battery life, among others). I have to say that my Karma has worked flawlessly since day one. I have had no problems with the hard drive, the stick or the wheel, and find the UI and controls just as easy to use as the iPod. In fact, one of the reasons I did not go back to iPod with the 4G model was the click wheel. While it is slick, it is not as easy to use as the Rio stick if you are not looking at the player, as it offers less distinct position-relative tactile feedback.
As far as the Carbon is concerned...looks are personal, and I personally like the looks of the device. As far as the 5-way navigation pad that replaces the Rio stick...it is probably just as functional, since I have a similar D-pad on my Treo 600, and it works well, especially for scrolling through long lists. A previous post incorrectly said that to scroll long lists with a Rio device requires a scroll/reposition/scroll/reposition... motion on the scroll wheel, when in fact, all you have to do is hold the stick down (or on the Carbon, hold the nav-pad down). Using their logic, the constant scroll motion on the click-wheel of the iPod would be more difficult than simply holding the stick/pad in the down position.
Anyway, I think there is too much iPod snobbery displayed in this thread. Sure the iPod Mini is great...guess what, so is the Rio Carbon...at least it's first impressions would seem so.
Why get so defensive? If the device you own makes sense for you, great. That's what freedom of choice is all about. My choices have led me to a Rio product that works well for me, and in some ways works better for me than the iPod ever did.
Now, on the subject of "freedom of choice"
That is what really bothers me the most about the Apple and Sony products. The insistance on forcing you to adhere to their proprietary standards. Fortunately, I use the only music download service that I am aware of that does not force you to accept only one file format, and does not add cumbersome DRM.
Lastly (I promise...then it's off the soapbox), the Rio Carbon is not only being offered as a 500 unit special edition, but is in stock at every Best Buy in my area. I've read reports that it is in stock across the US at Best Buy. I went to the Best Buy web site, which still lists them as "pre-order", but if you click the link for in-store pickup and enter your zip code, you can see if it is in stock near you.
Regards!
The only caveot: I own a 4g iPod. When are people going to learn that for the majority of people it doesn't matter if it's better than the sexy little iPod in features, size or look. It's not an iPod. Apple did two things in making the iPod: They made a pretty decent product with an easy interface and they also made an image of chic youth. I'm afraid that Rio has only done 1/2 of this. Until they come out with a better marketing capaign, they simply will not unseat the iPod.
When's the last time you chose a toaster based on its technical specs?
About two months ago. I wanted one that would make a decent slab of toast -- there are very few toasters that can handle an inch-thick slice of bread.
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
As long as were on the subject: Are there any HD-based mp3 players that can make a good recording, direct to WAV or high-bit-rate mp3, from a good microphone? I think this is a good way to record a band practice.
Disclaimer: I do not even own an iPod.
You say, and I quote:
"Reviews of the black Rio Nitrus were luke-warm [ign.com] at best. Most people agreed that the player itself was stylish, but the interface was clunky, the software was garbage"
Read again what you wrote. So basically it had piss-poor usability _and_ garbage as software, but you still blame it on the marketting that it didn't sell?
That's been the real story of why the iPod rules, and all these "iPod slayers" went to the bit bucket of history: they were crap. They were cheaply made, with complete disregard to quality, usability or the customer.
Everyone thought that they could just throw together the cheapest crap possible, price it sky high, and watch the lemmings rush to give you a ton of money for pure crap.
Let me play Captain Obvious and spell out some of the ways in which they really failed:
1. Most of the "iPod slayers" were just huge. I've seen ones (e.g., the older Archos or Neuros comes to mind) which were as big as a brick. And about as heavy.
The kind which you could put in a sock and mug someone with. Or the kind for which you would need custom pants to carry in your pocket, and a second set of suspenders to keep your pants on when you do. The kind which looked like it had a 3.25" desktop hard drive in it, and likely half a car battery in it.
2. Yes, a helluva lot had and still have crap usability.
E.g., enough were actually produced with as little as forward, back, stop and play as the _only_ user interface. Like that's enough for a 20 GB hard drive.
E.g., a lot of companies seem to think that some tiny 2x16 character display is all you need to manage your music on their player.
E.g., some needed their own unwieldy software just to get your data on them.
Etc, etc, etc.
3. Most often they werent't even cheaper. Quite au contraire. They often had all sorts of expensive doodads instead, which pushed both the price and the weight through the roof. (Poorly programmed doodads too.) E.g., surely everyone will pay twice the price of an iPod, just to be able to also display their digital photos on a clunky huge MP3 player. On a tiny display.
When they could just get a Palm _and_ an iPod for that money, and in fact still have money left.
4. Especially Sony's tried (or still try) to impose their own crap formats, instead of just accepting a damn MP3. Yeah, I'm sooo gonna re-rip my whole 192 kb/s MP3 collection to Sony's crap format. At a whole 48 kb/s. Not.
5. Yes, iTunes. For a long time it was the _only_ such service. And a damn good service too. And it worked best (or at all) with an iPod. Dunno, seems to me like in and by itself that's one damn good reason to own an iPod.
See, contrary to popular belief, people are not _complete_ lemmings. And marketting helps, but only goes so far. At the end of the day, good products prevail, and utter crap products fail.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
How can this be an iPod killer if only 500 are availible? Not only will it be low yield, low profit, but it doesn't stand a chance of being widely accepted. I highly doubt people will drop their iPod Mini to grab one of these things. It's not an iPod Mini killer, it simply cannot be.
Panasonic NB-G100P
The perfect toaster.
Oh, right, because we all need a mp3 player that gets an IP from a DHCP server... I for one like having a mp3 player that connects to the same ports that every other external device on the planet connects to.
"2) No support for Linux..."
shit!! so it only supports 99.9% of Operating Systems in use?!? The Horror!
"3) No OGG-Vorbis support"
crap!! No support for a music format that only 0.01% (mostly geeks) use? What is Digital Networks thinking?!?
p.s. the Rio Carbon is the upgrade for the Rio Nitrus, not the Karma, so it kinda makes sense that it wouldn't include all the features of a Karma, now doesn't it?
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
When's the last time you chose a toaster based on its technical specs? Bet you went for the kewl chrome/curvy/ retro look one... No. I went for the one that makes a good toast:-). And no, not all of them do. You need one with spring-loaded holding grills on both sides of the slice, otherwise it will not toast evenly.
Isn't that like calling an amputee's stump a hightlight?
DRM is not a thing I want as a consumer, as it offers me nothing. I would rather buy the cheaper non DRM device from taiwan.
The kind of market share sucess the iPod has (now up to 58% of the total MP3 player market, perhaps higher - I forget the figure from the Apple keynote) does not come from marketing. It comes from one thing only - word of mouth. The iPod would not sell so well if people did not really ENJOY using the iPod.
the learning curve on my Nomad is only marginally longer than that of the iPod
The learning curve of many players is only "marginally longer" than the iPod. It's what keeps all of them down in the single digit marketshare (or lower).
Many people such as yourself assume over and over again that Apple has just a marketing edge, companies that make that same assumption will end up by the wayside if they ignore the very real advantages the iPod offers to consumers.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Well I'll take a higher quality product that doesn't get relegated to a shelf after a month, over one with more "features" I don't need and an interface that gets in the way of what I do need.
Sometimes you get what you pay for.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Scorlling is most certainly NOT a binary operation. Consider a web page with 10,000 lines of text, and the only options you have are the scroll wheel or pressing the small scrolling nub at the bottom of the scrollbar (not using the handles).
With the wheel you can increase the rate of spin and get to the bottom quickly. With a scrolling nub (or lever) you are at the mercy of whatever speed the interface decides to scroll at - which is invariably wrong, either too fast leading to overshoots or to slow leading to annoying waits. Some interfaces even have it vary speed depending on content which is even more frustrating as you cannot rely on a constant speed of travel.
With a scroll wheel it's almsot like using video-game reflexes honed over years to scroll to a particular item then punch down into it when you arrive. You can get to almost anything in a very large list as fast as you like.
I'm not sure if they really deserved a patent for it or not - but regardless I would say the lack of a scroll wheel makes any otther portable device meant to work with very large lists of things crippled.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I once again forgot to use the "No Karma Bonus" checkbox when I said I was going to (bad habit). The parent is unequestionably deserving of a 1, and maybe a 0 - this post probably deserves a -1, though that seems like a waste of mod points. :)
I just buy the top ten songs on ITMS every ten months or so and that pretty well replaces FM radio for me. At least I get the same content.
If I want a "morning drive" program I just swear randomly into a microphone for a few minutes and add that to the playlist I have on random.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I recommend, respectfully, that you take your head out of your ass. Word of mouth comes after marketing, particularly in this case. People didn't avoid Nomad Jukeboxes (for example) because of their interface, and they didn't avoid them because people said they sucked. They didn't avoid them at all, but also never bought them, because THEY NEVER HEARD OF THEM.
Actually my head is quite fine where it is. Word of mouth is a force independant of marketing - if people like a product, they tell others and so forth. Actually the Nomad is a great benefitter from this process - just look at Slashdot. Do you think they would have the sales they do without word of mouth given the admitted lack of advertising?
No, if the Nomad were really as useful as the iPod to the populace at large it would be enjoying even larger sales which in turn would allow even more advertising. But even with strong word of mouth (far more powerful than any advertising will ever be) it still has a plateou of a mostly very technical user base, which is not the populace at large.
Just think of movies. Does it really matter how much they spend on advertising? Not after the first few hours, word of mouth about a bad movie gets out and sales tank. Similarily a lot of people have fallen in love with the iPod, and as a result are that much more evangelical about the product and thus boosting sales correspondingly. I don't really think the iPod is advertised all that heavily, I hardly ever see ads.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Get laid, buddy, it'll make you less hostile.
I actually work for sony. Well sony online entertainment. In any event. If you ask for the legal department there it gets a real swift negative reaction. On the other hand if you deal strictly with the CS you get a swift and fair resolution the majority of the time. Just food for thought. I am glad no one thought I was trolling. this has been a horrible expierence for me. And just to upddate. I got my karma back. Sure enough my name is mispelled and my customer information reads to some phone number in the 562 area. Which is not near me. Thanks for listening.