Slashdot Mirror
Decentralizing Bittorrent
An anonymous reader writes "Exeem is a new file-sharing application being developed by the folks at SuprNova.org. Exeem is a decentralized BitTorrent network that basically makes everyone a Tracker. Individuals will share Torrents, and seed shared files to the network. At this time, details and the full potential of this project are being kept very quiet. However it appears this P2P application will completely replace SuprNova.org; no more web mirrors, no more bottle necks and no more slow downs. Exeem will marry the best features of a decentralized network, the easy searchability of an indexing server and the swarming powers of the BitTorrent network into one program. Currently, the network is in beta testing and already has 5,000 users (the beta testing is closed.) Once this program goes public, its potential is enormous. "
If it's allowed to be reached anyhow.. I have a feeling it's going to be tied down if it's the "next" big thing..
I'm not the devil.. just his advocate.
It's only for legitimate trade of legal files you own, kids.
Do Not Eat iPod Shuffle
I hope empornium.us adopts this. They slow down frequently also.
~S
Now I can get all of my illegal downloads faster.
Hey! I have this great thing, but you can't see, use, or otherwise evaluate it on your own. But it will be great when it's done!
Didn't realize these guys were hackers, too. Wonder how many RIAA/MPAA scum got in on the beta test?
just the end was affected. the correct version is
its potential for lawsuits from 'artist' organizations is enormous
vodka, straight up, thank you!
For a frenzied orgy of illegal downloads!!!!
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" -Microsoft
Just imagine the benefits of the system, with so many new trackers, the RIAA/MPAA will demand even more when they haul you into court.
"Your honor, the defendant wasn't just a person sharing the file, our records indicate that he was the person sharing the file, running a server, not just a client on a network with files to share"
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
There are just so many different P2P products these days. Doesn't each new one subdivide the market more? If half of the torrent folks use the new thing, and half stick with bittorrent, don't both of them become less useful? I'm not sure what can be done about that, and I'm not saying there shouldn't be progress. But I miss the days when there was only Napster, and you never came up blank on your search terms. -Lep
I am allowed to criticize you: you are not allowed to criticize me. Sorry, that's just how things are.
I think the biggest win is the ease of finding files. Theoretically this would allow file information to propagate, and I tihnk the most interesting problem that will be faced is stability. How do you make effective searches that do not loop around the network?
This could be a really cool development, and there is a lot of research in the EE/CS community right now going in to studying these decentralized networks. They show great promise!
With the IP addresses still out there, wtf is the point?
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
sounds good. it has my p2p traffic when it comes out. hopefully it will catch on. if it is backed by suprnova no doubt it will.
leprkan...
The only time I ever had a problem with torrents is when downloading something very timely and popular, and the tracker would get soaked. This happened with both Fedora Core 1 and 2. Take away this one tiny problem, and you have a perfect technology.
So BitTorrent took the whole "everybody's on the same network" and converted it into "one network per file".... and now this new system puts it *back* like that? How is this different from every other p2p filewhoring system?
Doesn't Shareaza already do this?
How can you truly decentralize P2P? Don't we still need to hit up a server that has a list of all the people? How can you track the trackers if you don't have a list of who is sharing? The only way I can think is just crude port scanning across subnets...can anyone clarify this for me?
Publishing a torrent is incredibly easy, drag the folder in, pick a category, click go. It hashes it and it starts seeding within seconds.
It still (obviously) needs some work doing to the app to make it more friendly but it's shaping up well.
Get paid to search..It's geniune and
Just because you have the client installed, dosen't mean you're doing anything bad with it.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
This is excellent news from a user standpoint. I use Bittorrent for just about everything - downloading Linux distributions, game betas and, uh... other commonly downloaded files. But I always seem to be a bit behind the tracker, and when I go to download there are hardly ever more than 5 peers at a time.
What I want to know is: basically, this is an indexing server that will allow torrents to be searchable. What happens with multiple versions of the same torrent? For instance, let's say there are 2 torrent distributions of Gentoo, identical files within the torrents. It would seem this server would ideally be able to recognize the similarities and kind of 'merge' the files - is this possible?
M
this sounds to me like a combination of the bittorrent system with the built-in searchability of p2p networks. am i getting this right?
I'm not seeing the big deal here.... it's basically a version of Kazaa where everyone is considered a 'supernode' and are forced to share files when downloading.
Just a minor thing - if half use each, then bittorrent becomes LESS useful and exeem becomes much MORE useful than with only 5000 beta testers.
I say let's give it a chance - never know, it might make up for what you miss:-) Worst case, no one will use it and everyone will stick with regular bittorrent.
picpix image polls. create - share - vote. fun!
"[...]its potential is enormous. " ??? Don't we just need an evil "MU-WHA-HA-HA-HAAaaa" now?
What would really matter these days is anonymity. It's a bit late to develop yet another non-anonymous network, when the real problem is the risk of lawsuits...
I realize that full anonymity is going to be a problem, but at least some degree of deniability and limited IP address propagation would be a boon. SuprNova might have the name recognition to really give something like that a good start.
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
... the MPAA sues _everyone_
--- Worst tagline ever.
Pirates will be able do download their illegal wares much faster, without the inconvenience of web mirrors going offline by pesky interference by law enforcement officials.
Let's just be clear: BitTorrent is legal, and can be very useful
but the trackers on suprnova.org pretty much all link to ILLEGAL pirated files.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
So, that means I can now download BitTorrents with all the fun of completely mislabeled torrents, incomplete versions being passed on, and seeing 50 slightly different versions of the same things available with only a couple people offering up most of them, so you end up with a ton of half-downloaded versions of things because people went offline, and you finally give up and try another version, only to see the same thing happen?
Gee, where do I sign up?
"You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
...so whats the catch? There has to be a catch! Right?
This has real potential. My opinion has been that "Bitorrent" is the next "mp3" as far as revolutionizing the internet and the way we have access to files. However, this seems like an even more 'secure' version, so people can download with less worries from the RIAA and MPAA for their illegal activities. If it's like Suprnova, and being developed in Europe somewhere (out of the reach of said organizations) then there is a good chance that they won't be able to slap many injunctions on the creators. (not that they've been successful with bittorrent yet, but you know they'd love to). I'll keep my eye on this.
You can pick your nodes, and you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your friend's nodes
Is this gonna be open source? If not, I predict it will have enough accompanying suckage to be not very usable. But if it is open source, cool!
My bicyles
How is Freenet not mentioned in this context. It is decentralized and other than the dropped packets / routing needed for anonymity it is swarming dowloads since any node might have the data you need.
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker
People might think that the parent post is just mindlessly repeating a cliche, but in fact I've been to Korea many times and I have never seen anyone beloe the age of 50 decentralizing BitTorrent.
The real Ralph Yarro posts as Anonymous Coward. Anyone else is an impostor.
...can I run it on a Phantom?
Another one bites the dust
I wonder how they will solve the issue of slow searches because it is a decentralized network. Do I have to propagate my search through several users, who may be really slow, before I can find what I want? One of the good things about a centralized list of torrents is that you can find the results really quickly even though the central tracker is the key vulnerability in the network. If the searches don't propagate fast enough, not enough people will get into using this new network unless they are forced to (if all the major popular tracker sites got shut down).
Maybe what they can do is propogate torrent lists too, but then they would have to make sure they are properly signed, or else anyone can simply start propogating false lists.
Is uploading a torrent of itself!
MUAHAHAHAHA then nobody will be able to shut them down! MUAHAHAHA!
I think they're ignoring the fact that to be the "next big thing" requires being more than just incrementally better than what it replaces. Bittorrent itself is exponentially better than a FTP or HTTP server when demand is high. And Suprnova works quite well as it is, so I think it will be interesting to see whether Suprnova holds tough if people don't switch to the new technology fast enough.
um, you're far from the first post my friend, and its already been said above you. nice try!
Bittorrent needs a replacement that adds security. The protocol's creator has gone so far as to voice that doing illegal filesharing on torrent is a dumb idea, due to its utter lack of any security features. That said, Once you add this kind of capability to torrent as mentioned above, well, it will have become kazaa's replacement in every way. Let's hope the signal to noise ratio for downloads stays high.
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
Decentralized everything
I am a beta tester of eXeem, and it works out great. It is simple to publish a torrent, which will undoubtedly cause more people to publish more torrents. Currently the only thing I dislike about it is that there is a slightly small selection of torrents due only 5,000 users being on. They recently gave everybody an extra serial number to use for eXeem and encouraged all users to invite one more person.
On a side note, unlike suprnova, eXeem allows pr0nz.
IMHO having a tracker is a good thing. My problem with kazaa, emule and the like is, in fact, that you can effortlessy search the whole network. With BT, there is no such thing as 'The whole Network'. When you download stuff using a small tracker that only tracks like 10 files, what is the chance of having it scanned by the *AA? True, this application will make it easier to find soething, but that also makes scanning the network easier.
for bittorrent would prevent this: attack on BitTorrent servers
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
This practically reminds me of the first reports about the the uber network called Gnutella and how it was supposed to own all other p2p networks. It worked well for awhile when it was small but then, at least IMO, became more of a hassle to use as it grew then the programs it was designed to replace.
I wish the SuprNova.org people the best of luck with there new program but I'll wait for the finished product before I start thinking its the Holy Grail of file sharing. The one thing though that is a big plus for them is how BitTorrent has developed to this point, on my torrents for UT2004 upgrades I've gotten 300-400k second which I'll take any day of the week.
sweet!
what are the stipulations on its use? (i'm at work so i can't really check it out)
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
always produce the best software!
1)With all the lawsuit attempts and legislation in the works, we still haven't seen filesharing development dwindle as much as one would expect.
2)The RIAA and their comrads are lawsuit crazy, but you haven't seen any "cease and decist" orders issued out to projets like this. A bigger thing to note is the fact that everyone seems to be a target - except companies like LimeWire who actually sell the P2P service and make money off of it (they get paid for the ads in the free version as well).
3)How the heck can any judge take these cases seriously, when, like one of my fellow posters made notice of, companies like Sony pratice the business tatics that they do. Their electronics division sells the mp3 players, but the record companies that they own forbid you to transfer the songs to mp3 players.
Go Figure...
And, in Korea, only old people decentralize BitTorrent.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
One: Will the torrents be Bittorrent torrents, or some other type. The last thing we need are 18,000 different Bittorrent-like torrents, and none of them working together. That doesn't help produce a huge, decentralized network, IMO, which I thought was one of the Bittorrent goals. No?
Two: Will it be encrypted? Or something similar?
Three: Will it be free and open sourced?
I realize there may not answers to my questions at this time, but I still thought I'd ask. I did not get the chance to RTF Web Page, since it already appears dead and gone. Go us!
When are the links going to be CORALIZED, you KNOW the site is going to get /.'ed.
File sharing is great, but if this thing delivered material in order, it would be the killer application of the decade.
/. illustrates that some folks want to take their TV with them but the REAL KILLER is that anyone could broadcast anything with only a broadband connection and the carrying capacity would scale with interest in the broadcast material. ANYONE could operate an internet radio or teeVee station! Sure, it's not to the second live, but it's pretty damn near realtime.
That TV2ME mentioned earlier on
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
what's that supposed 2 mean, dawg?
Is it made in a cross platform programming language, or at the very least have a open protocoL? I have a nagging suspicion it does not!!!
Until they release some info about the inner workings of this app, there's not much to talk about.
There are serious problems with decentralising BitTorrent. One of the reasons that people have such good transfers on BT is that there is central tracker supervising particular file and knowing all users serving bits and pieces of this file. This way in case of high demand/high popularity files I achieve speeds over 1MB/s (yes, that's megabyte).
Depending on design choices you can have couple of trackers with subset of users on each of them, or every user seeding file has his own tracker. In first case your client wouldn't be able to use all cloud, and in second tracker would disappear when original seeder turned off his computer.
You can of course design some communication between trackers, or elections or some other magic, but it's too early to tell at the moment. I'll wait for more information.
Whatever they do, I hope that there will be some console based client for this, because asymmetric connections at homes plainly suck at upload (hence on torrent at download too), and I'd rather keep running my torrents on the server plugged into the fast network.
Robert
Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
"Once this program goes public, its potential is enormous." - As is the potential for lawsuits.
I for one welcome our decentralized overlords...
-- forget
You see, by assigning an IP address, we can easily track who owns what IP. Then we know if it's an IP violation or not: if you have a valid IP address, you can't be violating IP laws.
right?
In Soviet Corea, Old Media sues you for using encrypted P2P apps!
Only old people in Korea use decentralized clients.
Decentralized Bittorrent? Wake me up when they have secured Bittorrent and then I'll listen.
My ISP, Mediacom, scans my network packets to determine if I'm grabbing a torrent of questionable nature. If they see it, they'll send me a nasty email. Hence, I'm on the edonkey networks now because BT is clearly not an option at the moment. I'm sure they'll scan those packets, too, at some point.
Unsecured BT is fast, sure, but if your ISP is snooping...well. And illegal or questionable content aside, it'd be handy for distributing other files to people in a more secure manner.
Or is this out there and I'm just missing something?
Blog,Twitter
..welcome our decentralized, file-sharing, searchable, swarming overlords!
What about a Bittorrent-esque Apache Module for swarming HTTP requests? Thereby eliminating the "Slashdot Effect"TM
It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. -Aristotle
The great thing about BitTorrent is that you are being pointed to a known file. You can judge for yourself who points you at a given file by what website is hosting the tracker. This is one of the reasons you don't get the spoofed files on BitTorrent. The fact that you can tell who is offering a tracker also means that the RIAA can. Thus the RIAA can sue this person. I see a distributed bittorrent being useful for non RIAA protected files. Once bittorrent is distributed though, the RIAA will start spoofing it.
"brxref
it's anonymous. I don't want to get sued for downloading the Seinfeld Reunion special. They should use a protocol like herbivore to guarantee anonymity. Then I'd be set!
What everyone seems to be confusing is that the website that lists the torrents that you download is not necessarily the tracker. The tracker keeps track of who is involved in the swarm, not any kind of search/indexing of torrents.
Hopefully this doesn't make the same assumption that most people do. I'm not involved in the beta, so I don't know.
Give me a decentralized tracker. Don't give me a search function.
It's potential is enormous!! It would make everyone liable for content as everyone is part of the distribution of the content. In case you haven't noticed the RIAA and MPAA tend to go after UPLOADERS more then downloaders. Now this new decentralized version makes us all active uploaders (or maintainers of the content) rather then downloaders and uploaders (Obviously with a torrent you already are an uploader, think like a lawyer and you see what I mean.) I'm not impressed. Even if the tracker is not maintaining data, you are effectivly, by law, Aiding in the Distribution of Stolen Merchandise on a higher level then before. Now you are potentially tying all the uploaders together. Now your starting to get into rackeeting territory. I am not a fan of P2P technology not for what it does, but I just find it poor technology. Giving users plausable deniability in the distribution is the best solution. It is what protects an ISP, why not use the same logic with end users.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I use "Go Supernova" it lets you see and search torrents on suprnova which is a lot faster than suprnova's site. located here http://gosupernova.free.fr/index.htm
Why the hell don't the Slashdot editors edit? It's like this post is written to give us Missing Poll Option ideas.
Why is this here? Suprnova is for software and video pirates. It's a prime example of the non-legitimate use of bittorrent. Seriously, just become some losers on Slashdot steal movies doesn't mean the site should become a news tracker for them.
If you aren't willing to pay for something, then you should just live without it!
Report Piracy
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Posts about Soviet Russia are soooo yesterday. In Korea, only old people talk about Soviet Russia.
Exeem will marry the best features of a decentralized network, the easy searchability of an indexing server and the swarming powers of the BitTorrent network into one program.
(Score:-5, MPAA Lawsuit Lightning Rod)
All joking aside, I'm curious to see which audience's problems it will solve. Will it suit the MPAA's goals of control by eliminating competing networks/protocols (less to monitor) or will it suit the pirate's needs for anonymity and valid content (non-faked-files)?
Any new big thing needs absolute anonimity. I already worry for all of the innocent civilians out there using bittorrent now to get their favorite shows and movies. I'm sure their transgressions are all being logged for future lawsuits.
And yes they are INNOCENT. Here's one good reason why. We first must ask, why did the founders of the US constitution feel it was important for accused criminals to be convicted only by a jury of peers?
I believe this is because they knew that honest citizens doing honest activities will often run afoul of the law, especially in a broken government where England (back then) or corporations today make all the laws. The jury of the peers is built into our criminal justice system in order to prevent just this kind of thing. I mean the hope is that a jury of bitorrent users will never convict a fellow bit torrent user. That's probably why we're only seeing civil lawsuits today by the RIAA and the like. I think I criminal jury trial for file sharing would be quite interesting.
.. it's still just a bunch of scr1pt kiddies who want's to share warez. No good comes from the poison minds of the warez'ers.
Want to Join the revolutionary Exeem network? Please click here and visit our sponsor.
Believe me, it will break. And it will not be free as in beer.
Girls are strange. They don't come with a man page.
-- Michael Mattsson
"...being kept very quiet" (until now)
/.ed, so I can't speak directly to Exeem, but it sounds from the blurb like these features are a possibility. Hope it's free in all senses.
This should be good... BT is without question the fastest p2p app (in fact, the only thing that has ever topped out my 'net connection), but it needs two features to kill off the others in my book:
1. Search - it's no fun to rely on third party websites to find things. Hopefully now we'll be able to do this.
2. Anonymity - BT could use an option for a system like Freenet's for making it really hard to tell who's serving who. Combined with the distributed nature of BT, it would be difficult to prove anything at all about BT users.
The article is
Here's another thought: the current BT system is really good at dispersing new content, like distro ISOs and TV shows, through RSS feeds from central websites. It would be cool to be able to subscribe to network-wide custom feeds, to stay informed about new files that match certain criteria.
perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
Its rare that a comment will make it difficult to stifle a laugh, but this comment was really funny. Good job!
The only problem I see is validating torrents. The system needs a way to validate if the seeded torrents are good or bogus (ie extra metadata). There's nothing to stop the RIAA and MPAA to releasing bogus material online as it is. This will just keep things working faster in general.
.torrent files, not the files the torrent represents. This results in huge performance increases. Also, if .torrents contained more detailed metadata about their contents, this could really improve the reliability of a search on the eXeem network.
:) This takes the burden off of a seeder to serve up a whole community from their own machine.
What I really like is that when you search for files that you want, you're searching the
Don't forget that bittorrent it is a very efficient protocol for P2P. Even if you're not finished downloading, you can be uploading to someone else
i'm ready to try out this new p2p, i've tried many others, often when they were new... irc, usenet , ftp groups, winmx, cutemx, napster beta 2, scour media agent, scourmx, gnutella, morpheus, kazaa, audiogalaxy, soulseek, edonkey, direct connect, mute, bittorrent, freenet, WASTE, winny, and i'm not going to stop any time soon. just gotta watch for what riaa/mpaa are looking for, and not share thier crap.
security? just think! when you are the tracker on the file, you can set passwords for the file (per user/ip passwords!) so that they cant share thier passes with others. of course this kind of defeats the purpose of more people=faster torrent, but at least it will be more secure.
this could be great, like what downhillbattle wanted with GAIM, a friend p2pnet , except this time (unlike waste), blocks are shared as soon as they are complete (kind of like edonkey), but faster.
it could be horribly slow (like edonkey), you can only have as many torrents as your bandwidth allows, more torrents open = slower torrent speed, torrents were faster because it was only a few files at a time (i havent heard of anyone running more than 10 torrents on cable upload) vs people who are on p2p with 1000's of files and slow upload/few upload slots
only time will tell, heres hoping its an open network and not ad-ridden with suprnova advertisements.
I completely agree with the statement made that the tracker/non-tracker distinguishment is a problem in bittorrent. Each participant in the network should have full power to include new members to the network. An outside member should be able to point at any of the existing members and get whatever initial setup information is needed to join.
It sounds like Exeem is also addressing the cataloging/search problem, which grows the scope from file transer to a distributed filesystem. Gnutella's flood searches may be less than optimal but they're great for adapting to changes in the topology.
the funny thing is these problems have almost certainly been solved by the almighty p2p protocol: freenet.
waste is also interesting because it provides a "walled garden"/native application approach to a distributed filesystem.
This is great news!
Its been a bit of a pain the last week with suprnova on the fritz. I was just saying to a friends yesterday bittorent needs to make itself completly decentralized, without the need to go to a website and link to a tracker, it sure is a bit of a bottle neck.
Without knowing all the details of how it will all work together, i wounder if its technically possible for a completly decentralized P2P network to be shut down? With all the talk of a 35% internet bandwidth market share, suprnova website would be an obvious target at the moment, but moving in a this direction like this seems very appealing for the longterm survival of the network.
Anonymity is probably the most important feature of modern P2P applications and crucial for their survival. From my understanding the first version of Exeem does not guarantee anonymity yet. How soon will it be implemented? A great distributed P2P application is Freenet: http://freenet.sourceforge.net
I don't agree with the all-in-one idea. It seems to me the problem would be better solved in a more modular way.
(1) having a search that only indexes trackers, and can then launch an external app of your choice to do the torrent download
(2) improving the bittorrent protocol so anybody with a seed can failover as the tracker
When I want to download torrents, I want to use Azureus, regardless of whether it was a P2P searched torrent or one off a website. I don't want to have to use some all-in-one app that decides for me the One True Way that downloads shall be handled, merely because it implemented the search to find them.
So....In Soviet Korea...you are old?
"If it sucks without butter, it still sucks with butter, only creamier." - AC
These are pirates you gormless idiot.
You are talking about petty thievery.
If you can't tell the difference, maybe you should just shut up and stop making a fool of yourself in public.
Isn't this what programs like LimeWire do with the Gnutella protocol?
Half the fun of suprnova is checking and rechecking the websites all day to see what is newly released. After you search through all the files, you find go only have to stay on top of the new stuff.
Where is the fun in actually finding what you want?
On the centralized aspect, I think when it's complete PDTP will completely replace BitTorrent for downloads from a central server. It can easily be used with large file repositories like current FTP servers maintain. It works way more like Apache, you just point it at the directory you want it to serve and it does the rest, no need to generate crappy .torrent files. Plus since all of the logic is server side it makes writing clients much easier, and allows for substantially faster downloads and better control. I always get sick of when my torrents are coming in 5kpbs down 100kbps up :(
Already done with Ants p2p that uses a torrent type protocol for file trasfer it also encrypted end to end and point to point and uses Virtual IP's who needs exeeem.
n /h ome.jsp?page=custom&xmlName=ants
http://www.myjavaserver.com.nyud.net:8090/~gwre
So what does this offer in comparison to Overnet/Kad?
This will be fun. A windose only client, damn I'll need to run that XP install. wonder if it still works?
.... it's a windose client ... need I say more.
;).
... Standards and Practices !
Then we gut the puppy and well
Have fun
PenGun
Do What Now ???
So will this network finally be what I think every P2P network I read about is?
I mean, look at gnutella. Look at fasttrack. Look at ed2k. Features:
- Decentralized
- Swarming
So you think that you can search for files without overloading some central server, and that you can download files with decent speed.
In reality, gnutella searches are dog slow, ed2k sits for 2 days before it even starts downloading, and all of them give you slow downloads. Where does it go wrong?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Not if it's on Slashdot!
I signed up for their beta a while back and have 1 or 2 reg numbers to get me started. However, I decided I wasn't that interested in participating in the beta. First person to message me gets the reg numbers....
-*The above statement is printed entirely on recycled electrons*-
According to them no linux version for a long time. This probably means no open source either. Forget it.
/. will give eXeem a pretty big audience though."
Some other stuff:
"The main problem with kazaa is that it doesn't have hash system which means that if you make MP3 with same name and same size that's already on the network and someone downloads one part of this file from you the MP3 will be corrupted. (This is exactly what RIAA did to kazaa). And since people don't delete bad MP3's from their computer you have more and more of this files in the network. And here is where our client is different you wont be able to corrupt files in the network because they have hash.
One more difference from kazaa is that we wont have entire folders of files on the network only those that will be manually uploaded from users. Kazaa has so many viruses because users don't even know they have them on there computer. So I personally think that we will have a lot less fake files on our network and we also plan to implement rate system so that if people find fakes,
viruses, spyware in one of the files they will vote it as bad so hopfully not many people will download that file.
What we are trying to do is bring best of P2P world and best of bittorrent together."
About eXeem replacing suprnova:
"That's a reporters view on it. Remember, they probably know next to nothing about eXeem, and are doing what reporters do best: bullshit.
I'm an Exeem beta tester that's been trying to give it a fair shake. I'll probably get banned just for this post, but here's some general details about the new client.
First off, it's in beta testing, but it's not ready for beta. It has some serious isses at the moment. Torrents disappear off the network for no reason is just one of them.
Second, they don't have 5,000 beta testers. They sent out 5,000 serials, but my best guess by looking at the network is that there are less than 1,000 actually testing it and never more than 200 or 300 people running it at the same time. They actually sent out new serials to all the 5,000 beta testers because they didn't have enough people.
Third, it lacks the details. With most BT clients, such as BitTornado and G3 Torrent, you can see all kinds of details about the file you're trying to acquire, how many seeds, portions of seeds, how many complete copies are distributed amongst the peers if there are no seeds. Exeem lacks all of these details.
Fourth, it doesn't use bitTorrent. It's based on bitTorrent, and uses libTorrent, but it's not a torrent. It's their own unique format. Exeem will not be compatible with other BT clients. It's use their client or don't connect. It almost appears to be a Kazaa rip off with bitTorrent features.
Fifth. 'But it's open source? Why can't we just write our own clients?' From everything I can tell, they have no intention of making this an open source project. They're talking about the type of ads they want to put in it.
Sixth: Pr0n. A lot of people like Suprnova.org and other torrent sites because there is no pr0n. Exeem has an adult filter, but 'Adult' is one of the more popular categories for Exeem users at the moment.
Exeem will not replace bitTorrent. The problem I see is that Exeem is being developed by the same guys that run suprnova.org. Whether Exeem ever works or ever becomes popular, will they take down what appears to be the most popular torrent site on the web because of it?
There are more problems with Exeem, but these are the major ones that I see. I'm sure some of the coders of Exeem will be reading this post. Please feel free to tell me where I'm wrong and why.
Aero
Please stop hurting America -- Jon Stewart
keep bit torrent like it is, if you make it as easy to use as napster, kazaa, whatever, it'll take off mainstream & next thing you know **AA will be going after it.
god i hope noone makes an easy to use usenet searcher/downloader program.
I was wondering what would be the difference with what we have today with eMule/aMule and in general the eDonkey network.
Where is the torrent for this beta program?
Hacker Media
Tied down by what?
Tied down by Internet Service Providers that choose not to be full Internet Service Providers. Watch ISPs, especially those run by universities, block or severely throttle it just as they have blocked or severely throttled Gnutella, FastTrack, eDonkey, G2, and BitTorrent.
Client application (psuedo-server as well) sends out constant "seeker" packets blindly
To whom? On IPv6, just guessing an IP address will almost never reach another host, and protocols that are limited to IPv4 become useless in a few years once the major ISPs feel pressure from ARIN to start routing IPv6.
Congradulations! You've just reinvented a hash-based filesharing network. You're not the first, though:
.torrent block hashing thing. Most of these networks deploy swarming, too.
* Gnutella (BASE32 SHA1)
* eDonkey/Overnet (Tiger Tree Hash)
* KaZaA (KZHash)
* Freenet (CHK)
* Mnet (?)
Mnet even does the full
The coolest thing is magnet-uri's. I've even written a redirector for SHA1 links here.
http://pixelcort.com/
I'm not familiar with this software, but like the concept of p2p in general. If I have no personal interest in p2p files, but would be willing to donate a small amount of upstream tracking bandwith each day, in the interests of supporting the concept and the freedom of information exchange that it represents, then:
1) Does this help spread or eliminate risk for network users?
2) Does this eliminate or reduce potential liability regarding how the tracking data are used? and
3) Does the software permit simple throttling to my ISPs upstream volume limits?
Thanks for any replies.
... you can't get Exeem on suprnova? Doesn't it strike you as a bit hypocritcal when no-one on the damn site will stick a tracker up for it?
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
perhaps it's just where I've been looking, but i've yet to find a bittorrent site that didn't attempt to load a parade of spyware, highjacks, and god-only-knows-what.
Well, first, the existing leechers can failover to the new seeder/tracker, and that's still useful to let them all finish even if nothing else.
Second, whichever seeder is elected as tracker can advertise itself for indexing onto the "tracker search" network I proposed in my upthread post. So then new searches find the new tracker.
Third, the web pages or whatever that are linking the torrent can (manually?) re-link a generated new torrent for the new seed, which has meanwhile kept the torrent alive rather than letting it all fall to pieces.
Theres already English patches for Winny and Share
<URL:http://www.winny-english.tk/>
<URL:http://www.uguu.org/share/>
outside [the USA], you have REAL FREEDOMS
Not necessarily. USA has bullied the EU and Australia into adopting counterparts to the DMCA and Australia into adopting a counterpart to the Bono Act (see "free" trade act), and it looks like Canada's next.
Another way to get our p0rn.
So what is required for a true file-sharing revolution? I think that the only way to force people like the RIAA to give up on pursuing file sharing, and also to really revolutionize the internet is to develop a system that is:
1) 100% anonymous - not even a piece of any download is traceable to any computer.
2) 100% open-source.
3) At least as fast as any existing file-sharing application.
4) Easily/quickly searchable.
5) The "catalog" of files is never centrally-located, so it can never be shut down by just shutting down certain "servers".
Can anyone name more requirements for such a system? Do you think that governments would make it a federal crime to participate in such a network?
Move to Canada, where a subpeona to get your identity from an IP will fail.
Is to use spoofed source ip's. But how? I'm not good at explaining things and this is just theory but here goes....
if we were modelling a torrent style p2p app
each download would require 4 parties involved:
1) Leecher
2) tracker
3) uploader
4) proxy uploader
and here's how it would work:
1) leecher starts to download the torrent and contacts the tracker
2) tracker contacts the uploader and proxy uploader and specifies the leecher's address the uploader's address and the proxy address. This info is given to the uploader and the proxy.
3) the proxy is not told about file names or anything, just ip's and ports
4) the uploader sends the torrent to the leecher with spoofed source ip's, the spoofed ip is the ip of the proxy.
5) uploader keeps sending data packets to leecher, if the leecher loses a packet, it contacts the proxy to resend the packet, the proxy notifies the uploader and the uploader resends the packets with the spoofed ips.
hehe just a thought, I could be totally wrong. I haven't thought more in detail than this.
What I am missing from the enormous array of file sharing tools is a simple one. Sharing a virtual LAN with your friends. There are many VPN server/clients out there, but they are all point to point. What I would like is some software that emulates a workgroup LAN, so you could use simple SMB or FTP filesharing over a trusted, encrypted, distributed network. The tricky part would probably the broadcast packages and the IP range.
read: suprnova.org NOT supernova.org, whos websites is designed to look like suprnova.org and bilk you out of money
ATM, Suprnova is illegitimate in the United States of America . God Damn, doesn't that just chap your ass? That those dirty bastards in Europe kicked us out, and now are screwing us out of our rightful money?
The only people who see disadvantages to the current system are people who would like to use Bittorrent to distribute illegal content.
For those of us using Bittorrent for legitimate purposes a centralized tracker is a wonderful thing. We're able to keep track of how many users are downloading the content while also getting the benefits of reduced bandwidth load and scalability that Bittorrent provides.
There is no gain here whatsoever for the legitimate content provider. Ideally all of the illegal traffic will move to Exeem. These copyright infringing pirates have been giving the legitimate Bittorrent _protocol_ a bad name for far too long.
Too many leechers... I love those private trackers that log what u upload and delay access for leechers.
First they should get their website up on BitTorrent, instead of the client/server HTTPd we've already Slashdotted. Does anyone have an HTTPd behind BitTorrent middleware, that any browser (Mozilla, IE, etc) can hit transparently?
--
make install -not war
SSL is encryption, too. Forbid encryption and that lock icon gets broken on every site in compliance with the law.
But there are plenty of outcomes short of that which can interfere with our civil liberties. And more importantly, our ability to do business. You want to send NDA information in plain text over the Net, you go right ahead.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Simply digitally sign every torrent file. Users would trust torrents that are signed by an entity such as suprnova much the same way as they trust the torrents they currently find on suprnova.org.
No need to upload the file again or anything, the signature just means: XXX certifies that the file with hash YYY has the content ZZZ. Making a file with the same SHA1 hash as a file that already exists needs the use of brute force as far as we know.
News like this sometimes sparks memories of the past. It seemed like yesterday when I was perusing the local BBS for their demos, games, and apps. My how times have changed -- so quickly.
Linux at home
IMHO, what make BitTorrent so good is how fast it is to download files from the network. And the reason for this is that the average user isn't seeding tons of files at the same time and because of that, their upload bandwitdth is concentrated in just a couple of files.
.torrents here, I don't seed them. By doing that, the .ISO is spread much faster, because I'm using 95% of my upload speed to send that and only THAT file. And yes, I wait until I have uploaded at least the same ammount as I downloaded before canceling the task.
For example: when a legal downlodeable ISO file is released, I open BitComet and start downloading only that file. Although I have plenty of other
The opposite happens to Emule. Since the average user has loads of file in his download queue and all that stuff is automatically "seeded", the upload speed is distributed among so many files that it is difficult to get a decent download rate.
I think that the beauty of BitTorrent is to help people distribute NEW content quickly. If you want a searchable and descentralized network, stick to emule.
Jh00
You find a new way to recruit talent and raise the bucketloads of cash needed to produce a series like Firefly and then we can talk about outdated business models. But not before.
So my ISP says to me that they will 'speed shape' BT default ports (6851 - 6859?). So I think to myself that I will tell my BT client (Azereus) to use port 80. Being a non-technical person, what is the downside of my decision to use port 80 for my BT traffic?
A dream is good. A plan is better.
Remember that the purpose of freenet was NOT to share a bunch of binary files.. .
Its intent is to allow people to publish *information*, ( i.e. WebPages ) in an anonymous fashion.. So judging it by 'speed' of your file downloads is an unfair judgment
Anything else that is grafted on, such as p2p type downloads, chat, etc is just that.. stuff grafted on.. and veers away from the original intent.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"So what's stopping Senate/Congress from simply limiting the use of encryption to certain uses (financial, government, etc...), and telling ISP's that they have to block encrypted traffic that's not from known and "approved" sources?"
Oh, how soon they forget. Or more likely, never knew.
It was the threat of the Senate outlawing Public Cryptography back in September of 1991 which spurred the release of PGP before the Senate could act.
It's too late to do anything now. They could try, but there would be a lot of company's who would complain. And it would be too late now.
IMHO, the release of PGP is one of the most important things to shape the future of human history that we've seen. Also, IMHO, the second most important was the release of Linux.
It's darned amusing that both happened at about the same time.
money is the root of all evil
Just email me at hoovernj /-\T gmail.com
(replacing /-\t with @ of course)
They just sent a new key so all I'll have to do is give you the link and key. (I've been testing since the day it began).
I have been doing some searching for the format of a BitTorrent file, I would like to create a program for Refrozen that allows me to distribute files via BT, but, I can't find the format of the file, etc.
If this program isn't open source and under a decent licence (GPL, BSD, MIT, public domained, etc) I'm not going to use it.
The official free software version of bittorrent and the many available derivatives are good enough for me.
Given the name, (Exeem), should we assume it is an exe file for running on Wintel platforms?
Suprnova used to have a significant collect of Macintosh resources listed.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
What I would do here is have the "super-generous" nodes distribute pieces in a round-robin fashion, rather than letting a single person monopolize the node.
Unless, and I'm bitter about this happening so often on eDonkey, only one person has all the pieces of the rare file I want, and all of the people asking for the file are four-figurth in line.
It has to be centralized somewhere, how does your machine know where to connect to start searching? Random IPs?
I am going to call this Vaporware till there is something alittle more then a message board post from a guy named Slick.
just because your a schizophrenic doesn't mean people arn't really out to get you
Does anybody know if this is the REAL name? It it supposed to mean something?
As acknowledged by Bush Jr., but denied by Franklin Graham, who had the nerve to criticize Bush's understanding of theology for saying it. I'm an atheist myself, but that sort of thing annoys me. I hate to give Bush credit for anything, but at least he's less of a religious bigot than many (other?) so-called "evangelicals".
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
That made my day. It would also make your modpoints, if I had any. :)
Defenestrate Windows...
With bittorrent you can download files getting parts from many different users.
I am working on a concept to stream 'live' video using a bittorrent style approach. Users pass each other bits of a live video feed with synchronization and timing as the main criteria.
This way, 3-4 sources that would source live video would enable thousands of clients to watch it ( of course with a lag ).
Has anyone thought about this or working on a similar idea ?
cheers !
A.C. for now.
One is that the Bittorrent protocol is thusfar the best protocol for transferring large files. The clients are designed to transfer large files. The Edonkey/Kademlia protocol exists to transfer large files as well, but it is just not as good as Bittorrent. It is much slower.
p2p has to be looked at as a process. There is the search for information. There is the response to the search. Then there is the request to download a file. Then there is the download of the file. Each of these parts is separate and important. In Bittorrent, only the last part, the download is decentralized. The prior parts are not decentralized, are not p2p - even the request to download goes to a centralized torrent.
Despite this, Many people figure that Bittorrent's partial file sharing, protocol attributes and program attributes are what make the downloading good. Of course, having a good source of current holders of the file - partially or fully, is important, as is having a good hash of the file, or multiple hashes in the case of Bittorrent. But this can all probably be done via p2p as well.
As far as the comments on hashes and file integrity, this is not a problem at all. There are many ways to deal with this. If you want, you can still have a central torrent, but you could only check it once instead of many times. Or maybe there could be distibuted PGP signatures of the validity of certain hashes.
As far as other comments, I'm interested in this so I'm glad to know, although I agree its vaporware until release.
As far as Freenet, encryption, IP addresses and so forth - I think for technical innovation reasons, unencrypting, non-masking p2p technologies need to be developed for now. I'm also glad, alongside this, anonymous, IP masking, encryption-capable p2p networks like Freenet are being created. And once p2p becomes mature, I hope the technologies implement any encryption and anonymity that does not put in too much overhead. Turn it on by default, and let people manually turn it off if they want.
As far as copyrighted material and so forth, I really could give a damn. Big corporations hate the idea of sharing, and trying to kill something like Linux or a GPL open p2p protocol and client is instinctive to them, just like the enclosure of the commons was.
And as far as non-centralization being one of the benefits of Bittorrent, and decentralizing ruining it, I completely disagree. As I said before, file integrity and hashes are not a problem, you can do PGP signatures on hashes or something. Any problem can be dealt with. Bittorrent is good because it is the best protocol to deal with partial file sharing of large files. Any of its centralized features can be decentralized, some of them very easily, as I'm sure Freem is doing.
Well you and bluephone got it nailed. I think it's rather humerous all these "legal" arguments based around plausable deniability. That's an awful lot of "faith" around a crowd that's composed of atheist, and agnostics. The other article of "faith" is that technology is as much a solution for the pirates, as it isn't for the copyright holder.
Haha!!!! Fuck you, intellectual property fascists! Information will be free!
Why would you want your traffic encrypted? The only possible reason is to protect piracy.
If perfectly legal files are being transferred (as is the claimed intent), then why waste time encrypting everything? Wouldn't you WANT the content holders going after those infringing individuals? Remember, this is exactly what Slashdot was calling for when Napster was being sued in 2000. Somewhere along the way, that tune changed when people saw that content holders were perfectly willing to do that.
Have you ever seen the amount of data a packet analyzer puts out? Most ISP's will either outright block ports associated with P2P programs or throttle them (but prefferably: neither).
Besides, click-through licenses aside, that would be something of a privacy issue. Like a lawsuit.
Quack, quack.
The only reason people want to use this is for piracy.
Slashdot disappoints me. When did it become okay to hurt software developers and musicians?
I'm tired of the contradictory opinions (Slashdot circa 2000, "sue the individual downloaders, not the P2P app!"...Slashdot circa 2004, "The RIAA is evil for suing individual downloaders!"). I'm leaving this website to find a better, TECH NEWS site that concentrates on OSS more than it does anti-Microsoft. Bye.
You know, Slashdot was calling for them to go after individual downloaders in 2000. The reason is because nobody thought they actually would or could do it and were secretly trying to protect the ability to pirate over P2P. When they really did start suing downloaders, suddenly everyone reversed their opinions! And Slashdot gave us a TON of anti-RIAA propaganda about how they were going after your grandfather and stuff.
Content holders can protect their materials. Hey, if people are going to pirate their products and skirt the law, why can't they go on the network and screw things up to protect their stuff? I love how the MPAA/RIAA are the immoral ones for protecting their materials; meanwhile, no mention of the pirates. And why is it okay to skirt those copyrights, but it's bad to "steal GPL code?"
Your requrements have already been met in the form of Ants p2p it is encrypted end to end and point to point ,uses virtual IPs to identify nodes ,Open source,It shares partials and Muitisource Downloads,Uses a Distributed hash table for all nodes.Only problem is Its in Java and has a small beta testing userbase at the moment .
h ome.jsp?page=custom&xmlName=ants
http://www.myjavaserver.com.nyud.net:8090/~gwren/
Viva la revolucion! :-D
So many people on slashdot, home of "the creator should be compensated" jizzing so hard about a bit of software being made by a group of people dedicated to ripping every creator that exists off.
So... what? Is slashdot loaded with hypocrites?
Do you ENJOY giving the RIAA and MPAA excuses to point at as reasons they need $big_bad_law that we'll have to fight again later to get knocked back?
Why is it that so many people here feel ENTITLED to the works of others for free? If you don't like how copyright has been changed, then fix it and compensate the creators fairly.
Don't give them excuses. Beat them down. But no, slashbots would rather spend their time and effort creating methods by which creators can get fucked and the powers that be can even more effectively influence legislators with bad laws.
Where did the grandparent post say anything about ethics? It merely stated the law and the nature of the legal offense in question. wheelbarrow, a known troll with poor karma, is changing the subject to incite a flamewar.
I am a beta tester, and one thing that I do not like about eXeem is the fact that you have to know what you are looking for. One of the reason I like suprnova more, is because you can browse for the files you want. Also, eXeem is plagued with a interface not as clean as Azureas. Suprnova is better than eXeem.
"A business model works buy figuring out a way to make your product profitably, not figuring out a way to force people to cooperate with the best way you can figure out to do something."
Well obviously the "outdated business model" people might want to get with the "but piracy isn't hurting anyone. Just look at all the money they're making" people, because both of you can't be right.
Now for the OP.
"Good. The government shouldn't be helping corporations cling to outdated business models. The government is not serving the people's interests on IP issues, and tools like this give individuals power."
This tells me the poster has never run any kind of business in their life. Without laws, there is no society. Equal protection is granted, from your so called (highly subjective) "outdated business model" all the way to the "new and improved" business model. From big multinational, to small mom and pop. Everyone enjoys the same set of laws (yes I know of individual business persons who've used the DMCA (the so called law just for big business) to fight against crimminal acts.)
Also the person you've replied to is correct. Actions do speak louder than words, and just crowing "obsolete business model" with out even the hint of a viable suggestion over and over just makes your side look foolish.
And to round out my complaint. I'd wager that you've never been politically active. The previous NOAA story showed that people who are can get results. So once again, what's everyone's excuse for not being involved in changing things to reflect a fairer system?
Oh BTW This tool doesn't give you the power. It however gives you the illusion of power. A perfect tool for the TV generation.
Sorry to burst your bubble kiddies, but this type of application was done over 5 years ago.
It's called "L2R" - but you'll never find it.
no one cared then, and no one cares now...
the greatest communications technology ever designed, would solve just about every communications problem imaginable,
and it sits on a shelf collecting dust...
go figure
...why does Slashdot continue to post "stolen GPL code" articles?
If you don't care about supporting content creators' rights by respecting copyright, why do people like you get up in arms when companies rip off GPL code, also protected by copyright?
Why is piracy not theft, but "stealing" GPL code is?
I suspect the real reason so many people are against copyright is not some grand stand for public rights but simply to help protect the concept of piracy on the Internet. When you've got content creators perfectly willing now to sue you for downloading their stuff, it makes sense to try to intellectualize some sort of response that cuts them off at the source. That way people can pirate freely and content creators die off...eventually leaving very little quality content to begin with...
BT can be spoofed; there have been/are junk files with promising names on suprnva. What should stop anyone from fakeing a dvd screener release by putting up a 5-10MB preview and a useless 1-2GB file (packed in multiple rar archives). One could easily record all connecting ips.
What it does is provide a new way of distributing torrents (and probably) replacing the single tracker with something redundant. It is yet unknown if this will work (and scale); but this p2p app will instantly have content available, which might kickstart it.
I know that copyright laws are not ethical. And my argument has been backed up many times by many people. And that's just here at Slashdot. For me to spell it out again would merely be redundant. Check them out and try to refute them. I would like to see if you can do better than anyone else so far.
/. groupthink to prove your point, you really need to rethink your rationale. For the record, I've NEVER heard people like you offer a valid reason why piracy or copyright violation is a good thing.
Wow! What an argument!
"Lots of other people at Slashdot say it a lot too. Just try to refute them! See, that proves my claim that protect someone's materials so that they can make money off of it is 'inethical.' Because OTHER Slashdotters say so!"
If you're seriously relying on
Basically, all you have to offer is the tired "obsolete business" argument. You cite a bunch of technologies in the past that got wiped out by better technologies, without of course making the distinction between physical technologies like steam engines, and abstract ideas like copyright which seem to be doing just fine in most other industries. What does it matter if technology has come along that makes it even easier to copy something? How does that magically eradicate the concept of paying for a good? Just because you can get it without doing so? THAT is inethical.
The points people bring up about "tape trading of the 80s" or past technologies completely ignore that with the Internet, piracy has become thousands of times easier than it ever was in any of those examples. You can't just cite a bunch of other things and assume that justifies THIS situation. It's to the point that anyone in a public college library could fire up Bittorrent and grab a quick album and burn it on a CD during a lunch hour.
You call people who want to make a living on something "greedy bastards." Fuck you. I'm a musician, and I have worked four years to buy decent recording equipment and assemble a band to record a demo. Let me be clear, I have worked very hard on this and sacrificed a lot. It is finally paying off. I know the ACTUAL HUMAN BEINGS MAKING THE CONTENT don't ever seem to come up in these discussions, so I'm making myself known. If I put out an album, fuck you for thinking I'm a greedy bastard for wanting to make a living by selling my music albums to other people who might want to hear it. What right do you have to dictate to me how my music should be distributed? Just because you think copyright magically disappears corresponding to the rate that average net bandwidth grows?
Here's the part where you claim I should restrict my career to live performances. Tell that to the Beatles, who became a studio band because they didn't need to tour anymore due to the popularity of their albums. Why should I let people like you dictate how I make my living, just because you're violating my rights as a content artist? What happens when people just pirate high quality video rips of my shows with high quality sound? What if I want to write the next great American novel; how would I ever get paid for it if people just scanned it and swapped around a PDF all over the net? Do you have an answer?
It's only with the proliferation of piracy that suddenly there's been this underground anti-copyright movement. I'm willing to speculate why that is. What amuses me most is that people sit in their homes and use computers and post on the Internet to bitch about copyright, when all those comforts in their lives exist because of a system built on copyrights and trademarks. I think there's a phenomena where people reach a certain level of comfort in their lives that they get so bored and used to convenience that they have to start bitching about the world in which they live to give themselves a movement to follow and justify what they do.
This may get modded down. That's fine. I'm posting anonymously because of that. But you rarely hear a point of view on Slashdot com
WOW that's ORIGINAL
Wait, isnt edonkey/overnet already doing this ??
I mean I think the reason bitorrent was faster was indeed because of the tracker that would keep track of seeders and leechers.
So what's the point - except to mutate the same software so that MPAA cant keep up ?
As a beta tester for exeem.
This news is way premature.
Exeem wont be out of beta for a year given how its going so far.
And by then we'll have something better.
They can still have the listings.
They just won't have to provide the tracker anymore.
So the *AA can see that is being transmitted. Big deal. If they can't figure out where the data is coming from or where it is going, who can they sue?
Otherwise they would simply sue the transfer points they see. You're "knowingly" trafficking in illegal goods. Encryption is the wrapper layer that gives you plausible deniability. It is the difference between couriering white bags of drugs (Federal offense) and transporting a packet from source to destination (US Postal Service, UPS, ISPs, every day).
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
...this is basicly the eDonkey/eMule system in a microcosmos. But pick a reasonably popular download, say 2-300 peers. Grab 1-1.5mb from each (you'll get that pretty quick before they choke your connection, someone has to start sending a few bytes), and you'll have your file.
In this system, it is too little (you just "owe" a lot of people credits when you quit). Pretty much the same problem as eMule, except there you work up a "due" to thousands of people across all files - then switch identity.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
"Plus I'm serving Invader Zim on it and will continue to when it's released"
I'm sold.
Since I know one, and know a fair bit about the other, I can say that Jehovah isn't the same as Allah.
Since you're an atheist, you most probably trolling on what you know litte about.
And yes, Bush's theology is wrong here - I can see trace it to the tremendous pressure to "fit in".
um
"stealing" GPL code is when you take something that eeveryone can use and tell them they can use it anymore. "stealing" music is taking something thatt should already belong to everybody and listening to it without permission.
A blog about stuff.
Exeem is a decentralized BitTorrent network that basically makes everyone a Tracker. [...] Exeem will marry the best features of a decentralized network, the easy searchability of an indexing server and the swarming powers of the BitTorrent network into one program
IMO, the best feature of Bittorrent is precisely that tracking is not an intgral part of it, so the protocol and clients themselves are not tainted. It is basically just distributed FTP and actually makes sense for legitimate uses.
The combined solution will basically have "illegal file trading only" written all over it and will be treated as such. This is of course fine for suprnova et.al. but not for everyone else.
sudo ergo sum
...annoys me. What is wrong with the already existing decentralized KAD network? It seems to work fine with me, and the non-centralized e2k precursor is easily the best non-centralized protocol.
The idea behind bittorrent, that you have one program downloading one file and sharing it at the same time is cool. But I can't see why it necessarily have to use it's own protocol. It would be cooler if I could choose to use the multiple downloads client I might already have running.
As it is now, when there are big game-patches to download for my games, bittorrent is needed. If I want to find unusual music, I need soulseek. To find be able to see Time Team shows, I need to download them with eMule. These all do the same thing: download and share. But of course, they have different protocols. MERGE! Please...
They don't have to win in court, they merely need to threaten you with court. They have much bigger pockets than most people, and know that most people could not afford to risk a costly court case. Therefore they say "We'll sue, unless you settle out of court for $3,500" and many will just give in and pay up.
Taking a hybrid centralized/distributed protocol and making the centralized parts distributed piecewise is so obvious that any clueful person who ever looked at BitTorrent would have thought of it already. Heck, I was doing it before there even was a BitTorrent, taking a hierarchical caching system and creating a distributed version of the root server. It's nice that someone's really doing it for BitTorrent, but unless they're soliciting developers or have a prototype working I wouldn't call it news.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
This sounds good and all, but how is this system different from other decentralized P2P systems? I mean, think about it: on any P2P network, the up/dn ratio is 1. I.e. there are as much downloaded as uploaded. Then the question becomes: why do we think that the other decentralized networks are slow? And what does eXeem have that the others don't? During the beta-testing stage the speed might be ok, since the number of files on the network is very limited, so it's easy to search for other peers, but what happens when there are millions of files on the eXeem network? Again, the question is, what advantage does eXeem have over other decentralized P2P networks? I always thought that, though a little on the vulnerable side, but far better then the other completely centralized networks, since there *are* thousands of trackers out there. I think that BT as it is overcomes the problem of speed (or rather, let's you get download speed faster) by forcing the number of files shared (each file represents a connection to a tracker; if you have too many and no upload speed you won't get any download speed), and making it very easy to find all the other peers. It's hard to see how this works with completely decentralized P2P networks... Any ideas?
"At this time, details and the full potential of this project are being kept very quiet."
Which is why we're talking about it on slashdot...
You connect the dots, you pick up the pieces.
Asserting that we have to support the ad-based revenue model is ridiculous. There is no protection for business models.
It is not our responsibility to provide revenue for the supply chain (or anyone else!)
kb
... are not about inventions, those are patents.
Intellectual "Property" Laws:
Copyrights (or Author's Rights) works of technique or art
Trademarks Marketing marks
Patents Inventions (INDUSTRIAL Inventions [*])
Trade secrets Something (secret) that gives one a trade advantage
[*] hence software patents being insane IMHO. Good thing they are illegal down here.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
They can reclassify Encryption as a munition and require an expensive license to use it. Would you pay $10000/yr for an encryption license? A Bank would and so would the MPAA.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Amen! Running bittorrent via console is one of the things that makes it wonderful. :) I hope the programmers of Exeem keep that in mind.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
What if none of the bits you downloaded were encrypted?
Suppose I want to download CrappyMusic.mp3. What I find in the network is a document of instructions that tells me how to put that file together. Suppose CrappyMusic.mp3 is made up of 100 K blocks. The list of instructions might look like...
- 1st 100K = Block185737829 XOR Block5872812887
- 2nd 100K = Block877388228 XOR Block2875734882
- 3rd 100K = Block578378298 XOR BLock57818723 XOR Block21857893
- 4th 100K = Block587378928 XOR Block28757893
- etc., etc., etc. for the rest of the file.
In effect, I must download two or three times the amount of data that makes up CrappyMusic.mp3, but none of those bits themselves are copyrighted. Each block may be available via. many sources -- giving you a torrent-like advantage. Each block has an MD5 sum, which is included in the instructions. That way, when you go out to the network for Block285738278, you know that you actually got that block, according to your re-assembly instructions.Now, the MPAA/RIAA might argue as follows. The first 100K of your download file was made from Block101 and Block109. Therefore, Block101 and Block109 must both be copyright material. But then what if Block101 combined with Block207 gives you the first 100K of The Bible, and Block109 combined with Block224 gives you the first 100K of The Declaration of Independance? So is Block101 or Block109 copyright infringing material?
Suppose each Block is a single request out of a large p2p network. Each block can be tracked to a particular IP address it originated from. i.e. if your node asks my node for Block28957839872, I'll give it to you, and it came from my IP. But that block is not copyrighted bits. I have other bits on my system that when combined with that block result in perfectly legal material.
When you do a search in the network, for a title, such as CrappyMusic.mp3, what you get back is a list of reassembly instructions. Now the problem becomes, how to protect the distribution of lists of re-assembly instructions? Of course, the list itself is not copyright infringing. It merely points out that certain blocks in the network, when recombined in certain ways, result in copyright infringing material. You could take this to the Nth degree. Maybe the reassembly list is itself distributed through the Blocks system and you have to first get a reassembly list that tells you how to obtain blocks and assemble a set of reassembly instructions, that when followed, would result in CrappyMusic.mp3. The software could automatically recurse, if the reply stated that what was reconstructed was actually another re-assembly list. (Of course, this opens up potential DDOS possibilities.)
The premise behind this idea is not to try to keep you anonymous, but make the blocks you are distributing not be copyright infringing.
Maybe each block should be properly sized such that a single block can fit into a UDP packet?
The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
Here's an overview of the program, fairly simple.
Sorry about the wierd interface, I just copied it off their site and the owner has some wierd windows theme hack:
eXeem HOWTO
sig? uhh, umm, ok
What if P2P was integrated into a major OS?
Like, the next Windows... And more than 60% of all users had it, and it was fully standard and transparent.
Yumm...
Let's say you're using your P2P client to operate as a node (sending and receiving). You get a request for a particular file. You don't have the file, so you send along the request to other nodes on your list. Somebody, somewhere has the file. It passes pieces to all it's known nodes, and they all relay parts of it to the original, requesting node, or relay their part to another node which can send it to the original requestor. The relaying nodes are merely proxying the data; they didn't have the file to begin with, but this effectively hides who DID, originally, have the file.
Since every node on the network can function as a proxy, EVERY NODE ON THE NETWORK IS EQUALLY LIABLE. Will the *AA sue multiple people who provide a copyrighted file over a P2P network? Sure. But CAN THEY SUE EVERYONE ON THE NETWORK? Tracking down who originally provided the file, to sue them, is basically impossible; you'd have to have logs from all of the proxy nodes (if they are keeping logs to begin with) or you'd have to have the cooperation of ALL the ISP's involved, analyzing the traffic. This would be difficult, but not impossible.
If the data going in and out of nodes is encrypted, and there's no way to tell whether data going into a node was copyrighted material, illegially shared, or legal material. If the data is decrypted and re-encrypted at the node (with a different key), there is now no way to tell whether data which went in was destined for that node, or proxied out shortly thereafter. It becomes impossible tell where the file originated. As long as the pieces are encrypted, on the final hop, in a fashion the ending node can decrypt, the system works.
The only way to shut this down is to sue ALL NODES ON THE NETWORK. I can see the *AA filing a couple thousand lawsuits against people who provided copyrighted files, but would they be able to get away with suing everyone on a network, because they MIGHT, potentially, be involved in sharing copyrighted data?
Much more difficult, legally, physically and financially.
... by the Dew of Mountains the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning
you should have encrypted your post to hide your heinous blasphemy! prepare to feel the wrath of the feathered serpent!
q
aka sum.zero
I'd say one of the biggest problem with decentralizing BT is creating a well connected network.
You see, the tracker knows all peer in the mini-per-file-network, and can easily select a random subset of them, when recieveing a peer request. This way the network avoids being partitioned, and pieces progate quickly through the whole network, without bottlenecks between sparsely connected parts of the network.
In a decentralized system, it is much harder (and expensive) to select a random subset of (all) peers, instead of the peers that happens to be readily available.
Too bad then that speed and anonymity doesn't go hand in hand. I've yet to see an anonymity system (mind you, that's untracability, not plausible deniability) not based on mixes, i.e. where data is forwarded between several peers. E.g. two extra hops per packet obviously means at least 1/3 (global) effective bandwidth. (Each packet consumes 3x bandwidth.)
Gahhh, I missed a close-itallics tag and I forgot to use the preview button.
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Time Shifting is considered Fair Use!
;-)
Under the Sony/Betamax case they determined that you can record something being broadcast intended for general reception for the purpose of time shifting it (watching/listening to it later).
This is how one can record their favorite tv show during the day and come home at night, rewind their tape, and watch it then.
Oddly enough, this also means you are allowed to hook up to Apple's iTunes radio stations (or anyone else streaming 128/44 audio), and record it onto your computer for use at a later time. This of course assumes you do not distribute it (except for maybe a few friends and family members) and that you do not use it for a commercial purpose.
So therefore, one could simply listen to Internet streamed radio and build an entire collection of MP3s based off of the "Industry" giving it to them for free.... pretty nifty eh?
The interesting part of this is that the DMCA prevents copyright circumvention. However Fair Use is still a right as well as Time Shifting. So even if you break their protection schemes for the purpose of time shifting, you should still be in the clear.
My law professor keeps saying that "things are many many many shades of gray in this business..."
BTW - I am attending MTSU's Recording Industry Management program earning a BS as an audio engineer. Copyright Law is a course that is required and I take the final for it next week. http://www.MTSU.edu/~record/
Libertas in infinitum
NNP(cross pollination of neural networks and bittorrent ) ... the scene going for a holiday.
,
note that in 2001 we white papered as hackers 11 uses of automation by way of software
though we never got beyond large discussion and some small code examples im glad some of the ideas
like bittorrent someone else did figure
if i can ill dig out that old hard drive
and hook it up i will get the specifications on all work out to the general public
the 2001 discussion on bandwidth sharing
did discuss ports of send and receive and encrypted keys too bad sept 11 happened we might have already had a better system
this is excerpted from a section of my website
you could use parts of the ideas form this to recreate a newer upgraded type of bittorrent that doesnt need "hacked computers"
this was devleoped back late 2001 just before sept 11 attacks and was abandoned due to my back injury and
and using keys at either end in a client that can be updated daily or even biweekly when you start the client would ensure that you could decrypt files on your own end after the download and you could develop this way your OWN algorithms and many independant sites if you wished or one huge mother network with all the sites say trading a compressed encrpyted list once a day and this idea came from a bank that developed P2p hardware with flash memory to encrypt transmissions and you could reflash at will thus heavilly securing your transmission.
anyways the below was somehting else but combine the bittorrent/nnp in a way and you have the ultimate pirate network, and the nnp described below is and still is something id like to get afew people to help work on and test however not with hacked computers but you use willing particpants and have the packets hide the ips in fact you only have to have the downloaders address his hash will decide if thepacket was received and then could reget, the client could after you dl something then decrypt it auto or have a feature to have a password fo course//////
""3) the concept of "bandwidth sharing" is not new,
i had developed some white papers with a small team back in late 2001
that included a dozen technolgies we could in time realize,
however my injury and me being the team leader kinda kiled the continued process,
as i stated before, there are "other ways"
OTHERWAYS part 1
1st off the development of a new type of ftp system
that is actually based on hacked computers and a decentraized monitor system whereby:
each hacked computer has files on it to be shared,
each hacked computer has its own bandwidth,
the ftp as a whole would comprise of a hundred "hacked computers"
and thus have accelerated downlaod times
each "hacked computer" would look like adirectory and no logging would occur of ips
a simple key code built into the client for the handshaking of authentication wold suffice
the ports for such concepts were detailed in the white papers and have been examined at length by several interested
engineers
the decentralized core as i call it would include automation as never before seen but real
examples of its parts already exist andmerley need ot be merged into a whole
such as,
a scanner for finding the vulnerable sites,
the ability to move itslef around and talk to the client about hwo its doing so
such that both cna continue to communicate
the uplaoding from places to the hacked boxes using a form of proxy chaining.
keeping in triplicate each directory( hacked box) such thatthefiles in question are "always available"
an ability to uplaod new exploits via proxy chaining and another layer of handshaking authentication
how it would work
you start the client it opens what looks like a ftp
it isnt however
each file could be a hacked computer
or each set of files
no one would know
and thats the beauty of htis
thankfully this feature methinks wud help those leechers seed more than leech to their hearts content
Select SigText from Signatures where Len(SigText) > 120 Order By Len(SigText) desc
It won't work that well for many websites (eg. blogs) where the content changes regularly (BitTorrent isn't expected to handle multiple-dated versions of files as such a big part of it), and html source doesn't usually get that big so the improvements won't be so dramatic. A larger proportion of the time will be spent finding a node to download from..