XBox 360 Launching Nov 22

EGSonikku writes "Microsoft has released an official press release regarding the XBox 360 world wide launch just prior to the Tokyo Game Show. Looks like the US will be getting it just prior to Thanksgiving on November 22nd. Europe will get it on December 2nd, and Japan on December 10th."

Comments

Never Owned a Console

[SumDog]

Never owned a Console

You know I've never owned a console. My parents never bought me a Nintendo, Sega Genesis, etc. I had a 286 computer, and several years later I got a 486 with a 2x CD-rom drive!

I still get all the video games jokes in Simpsons and Family Guy because I did play Blaster Master, Contra, Sonic, etc, just not in my own house and I've actually never beaten a single Mario game. I also played around with a lot of emulators. Remember the days of iNes? When Nesticle and Genecyst came out, those were the shit. People take them for granted these days.

I play Dance Dance Revolution a lot, however I use Step Mania for Linux, avoiding the need of a console. A good PSX/USB connector and some dance pads are all you need, plus a torrent of all the DDR mixes in Step Mania format.

I think if I do buy a console, it will be the PS3 when it comes out. I really never liked the X-box, and not just because I hate Microsoft. I've always hated the feel of the controller, even the newer ones. They're as big as the entire damn Dreamcast system...and I really wish Sega didn't drop the Dreamcast line.

Maybe if I click on enough ads I'll get a "Free XBox 360" as well as a "Free iPod" (which still wouldn't play my oggs!) however I think I'll just hold out for my first console to be a PS3.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[yotto]

You missed a couple things. You need to put some kind of cliche in there, like the 1, 2, 3)Profit joke or perhaps a Soviet Russia reference.

Other than that, you pretty much hit every single karma whore point. Color me impressed.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[CDLewis]

You know I've never owned a console.

I really wish Sega didn't drop the Dreamcast line.

So, why didn... oh, nevermind.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Dreamcast and I love it. Not sure why it gets all the hating. At the time I bought it the graphics were better than the PlayStation, it had awesome games, a great Memory Stick / LCD screen concept, and its still fun as hell.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[randm.ca]

Apparently not, 50% Offtopic & 50% Overrated

Re:Never Owned a Console

[mix_MasterMix]

And there's still a huge homebrew community for it: http://www.dchomebrew.org/

Re:Never Owned a Console

[The Wooden Badger]

And one thing you forgot to mention: HOMEBREWS! I'll take a Dreamcast 2, please!

Re:Never Owned a Console

[Anonymous Coward]

In soviet russia console plays you

Re:Never Owned a Console

[CaseM]

Color me impressed.

You must be new here.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[KillShill]

you mean executing arbitrary code?

homebrew = gives the wrong impression and is in essence incorrect.

you own the chips in the machines you buy but the manufacturers of the devices prevent you from having full access.

think about that while you're standing in line buying one of these computers they affectionately call consoles.

geeks loves shiny things and so do i but i hate DRM and loss of property rights far more.

i'll be sitting this one out.

we cannot afford to reward companies who behave in a manner such as this.

there are other ways of preventing copied games from being played. there's no legitimate reason to prevent the lawful access to those chips that customers paid for.

i know lots of people will buy them but what i want, at least, is that people think about these issues. even when you're playing those new fangled games on your closed DRM systems, give it some thought.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[The Wooden Badger]

I have no idea what you are talking about. One of the reasons the Dreamcast is still alive is homebrews. I'm talking about people creating their own content and making the images freely available for the community to burn and play. I'm not sure what you are talking about with your not having full access, and DRM, and all. This is the DREAMCAST I'm talking about here. You know, same generation as PS1. I don't know anywhere you can stand in line to buy a DC. When a side discussion on an old console comes up, please don't go on a political rant about the yet unreleased console and why you won't buy one.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[KillShill]

the fact that you don't know what i'm talking about is why you said "please don't go on a political rant...".

you see, the reason that you praise the dreamcast so much is exactly why i'm "rant"ing.

see, any person who bought a dreamcast can run any program on the system they wish. it has nothing at all to do with "piracy" or as civilized people call it, copyright infringement. it has to do with actually having full access to the chips in it. and let me explain since you think it's about something else.

console manufacturers, under the guise of fighting "piracy", prevent you from lawfully having access to the chips you paid for. the chips being the cpu, the gfx , the sound, the storage and the network processors. if sega had taken even greater measures, you wouldn't have the "homebrew" scene we have today. sega and microsoft, sony and nintendo prevent people who BUY the consoles, from being actually to consider it their property.

yeah it's kind of hard to fathom for people who have no clue about property rights and the illegal shenanigans "consumers" have been so inundated with from "capitalist" companies. they are trying to RENT you the consoles but most people believe they are buying it outright. but if you buy it outright, how come you are prevented, legally and technically, from having access to the hardware (cpu etc) that you paid for?

so either they tell people upfrong it is a rental or they stop stealing the property of customers.

so when i say don't use the word "homebrew", it's because it does this issue a disservice. "homebrew" tends to imply something other than what is at stake here. people being able to program devices/computers they have paid for.

arbitrary code execution = fundamental right for devices you own. true, the companies don't have to provide schematics and APIs and documentation but to prevent owners using legal and technical means is extremely unethical , even more so under the guise of fighting copyright infringement. there are other ways of preventing copied games from being played, as we have seen on the pc game scene.

see all the wonderful programs people make for the processors in your dreamcast?

imagine all the wonderful programs people could make for the xbox360 or the ps3 or the revolution... all of those are devices that people purchase and have fully the right to use and cannot be impeded by law or technical restrictions unless you are under a contract and no one i know has signed a contract to buy such devices.

that's why i "rant". to let people know what's going on.

if sega had used Insidious Computing chips (aka DRM) , you would simply not have any possibility to program on the dreamcast. and each generation of consoles are becoming more "secure"... against the owner of the machine. that is a deplorable and reprehensible business practice and why i won't ever buy another console.

and it has nothing to do with "piracy"... that's their trump card. sort of like politicians saying "please, someone, won't you think of the children". they use the word "piracy" to make people think that something is being done and something that is in their benefit when in fact, it is the complete opposite.

Re:Never Owned a Console

[The Wooden Badger]

While I said I don't know what you're talking about; it would be more appropriately stated that I don't follow your logic. I completely understand what you said, I just fail to see how saying the DC is great for the homebrews merits a rebuke for buying a new console. I don't really care to hear the same old ethical arguments. After being at slashdot for a while all the preaching to the choir on fair use and piracy gets a little old. If that makes me a heretic then burn me at the stake. My original post in a nutshell is that I still think the DC is a good piece of hardware and I wish there was going to be a new iteration. Invitation to agree or disagree with the technical merits of the console is welcome. Ethics is boring when everything is so one-sided as it is on slashdot.

November 22

[grub]

Microsoft's marketting gurus will come up with a slogan like "Celebrate the 42nd anniversary of JFK's assassination with a brand new XBOX 360!"

Re:November 22

[DrEldarion]

"This Thanksgiving, give thanks for family, food, AND A TOTALLY BITCHIN' NEW GAME CONSOLE!"

Re:November 22

[CleverNickedName]

I take it "Silent Scope 360" will be a launch title so.

But will it be single-player, or a squad-based multiplayer???

Re:November 22

[mpathetiq]

DAMMIT!

Where are my mod points when I need them?!?!

Re:November 22

[op12]

You'll find out in 2038.

Re:November 22

[elrous0]

But will it be single-player, or a squad-based multiplayer???

Well, the official manual says single player. But many of the fansites say it's squad-based.

-Eric

Re:November 22

[Fred Or Alive]

They should've released it on the 23rd, and celebrated the 42nd anniversary of Doctor Who instead. :-)

But frankly, you can release something on any day and there'll be something infamous that's happenned on that day, sometime in history.

Re:November 22

[Ced_Ex]

I take it "Silent Scope 360" will be a launch title so.

But will it be single-player, or a squad-based multiplayer???

I believe it will have multiplayer capabilities, with a camping spot located on a grassy knoll.

Re:November 22

[thatguywhoiam]

I take it "Silent Scope 360" will be a launch title so. But will it be single-player, or a squad-based multiplayer??? I believe it will have multiplayer capabilities, with a camping spot located on a grassy knoll.

The developer has not yet announced whether they are going with the multiplayer option, or the revolutionary 'Magic Bullet' feature.

Re:November 22

[identity0]

But then I'm sure Sun will fly a plane over their headquarters with a banner saying, "Hey Microsoft: WE SHOT JFK. FUCK YOU"

and totally trash the X-Box by comparing it to their high-send servers. "X-Box? Yea, that's what yo' momma does! Try the Sun Fire E20K, it's smaller, cooler and cheaper than that suck-ass X-Box 3-shitty, yo."

And then Scott McNealy's head will explode from the insanity!

That's a first

[darkjedi521]

Holy cow. Europe's getting a major console release before Japan. That's got to be a first.

Re:That's a first

[dancingmad]

It is interesting.

Japanese consumers aren't stupid, they know the machine's coming out everywhere else before Japan. It's going to look like MS snubbing the country. They're not going to like it and the 360 is going to suffer from a draught of good Japanese games, I think (the titles reported to be in development is the bare minimum it needs and I doubt even those titles are going to buoy the machine too much in Japan).

Re:That's a first

[PKFC]

Wasn't that the case with the Xbox as well? Nov 15, 2001 for NA and Feb 22, 2002 for Japan... Would think Europe was inbetween those... So much for the simultaneous launch though. Weeks away though which will be neat to watch how well it works...

Re:That's a first

[Westley]

No, that wasn't the case.
From http://xbox.gamespy.com/articles/500/500452p1.html

The Xbox was released in the United States on November 15, 2001. It came out in Japan three months later on February 22, 2002, and then in Europe about a month after that, on March 14, 2002.

Re:That's a first

[dividedsky319]

That's probably becuase the Xbox sold pretty horribly in Japan. Microsoft's priorities are probably to get it out to the places that actually care, THEN release and put out an effort in places they've struggled.

Re:That's a first

[ghukov]

as I see it, the releases strategy is set up this way to flood the xmas celebrating markets before releasing to the Shinto and Buddhist, non xmas celebrating market.

Re:That's a first

[Library Spoff]

I wonder if the european edition will be released that day. Look at the PSP... Release date put back so they could sell more to the USA.

Re:That's a first

[fafaforza]

Having witnessed the failure of the XBox in Japan, I would reckon that Microsoft, this time around, is making great efforts in creating games Japanese players would play. In fact I believe I read something about MS courting Square-Enix and other Japanese developers by giving them dev systems and software.

As far as the release delay, now the japanese know how the rest of the world feels when it comes to system and game releases. It didn't kill America's desire for Japanese consoles, though.

And at least the console will come out in Japan, albeit just a month later. Manu great Japanese games never made it to US shores.

Re:That's a first

[popcultureicon]

And I would assume they will also notice that they are getting the cheapest price in the world for the xbox 360. Joystiq says that they are getting the equivalent of the $400 package for $350. They may have to wait a couple extra weeks, but that's still a pretty sweet deal.

Re:That's a first

[tb3]

The extent of Microsoft 'courting' Square-Enix is that FF XI will be available for the XBox 360, a couple of years after the PC and PS2 version. Not really a major coup.

Re:That's a first

[vasqzr]

It's Microsoft, not Sony or Sega. Microsoft isn't a Japanese company.

Re:That's a first

[/ASCII]

I think that the fact that both console games and the consoles themselves are often released in europe several months after the US release is one of the big reasons why computer gaming has a bigger market share in europe. As long as europe is treated as a second class citizen by console makers, their marketshare will be smaller.

By the way, when is the 360 coming to the rest of the world?

Re:That's a first

[EpsCylonB]

We are talking about a difference of 8 days, it isn't that much of a snub to japan, or even that much of a victory for europe.

Microsoft really messed up in japan with the first xbox, if you dont know games then there would be no obvious reason to think that japan is either a) a hugely influential videogame market or b) that the market and whole videogame culture is significantly different from the west.

It really was a rookie mistake on Microsofts part, surely at some point someone with a clue must of realised that Halo just wasn't going to get the japanese as excited as it did everybody else.

If they manage to make the same mistake this time then i will be surprised, not ruling it out though.

Re:That's a first

[elrous0]

It's going to look like MS snubbing the country.

Bill's just letting them know that he hasn't forgotten Pearl Harbor.

-Eric

Re:That's a first

[bigman2003]

Yeah, Microsoft wouldn't want to dishonor the Japanese gamer by releasing the console a few weeks later...in a country that still for the most part says it has no interest in a non-Japanese console.

They SHOULD snub Europe...just to screw them over for the support they gave the Xbox already.

I love the business advice given by geeks on Slashdot. The 'screw over your current customers to make your potential customers happy' is something that they don't teach in regular business school. Maybe business schools have it all wrong...they *should* be listening to the techies...

Re:That's a first

[mconeone]

That does not mean FFXI is the only title Square-Enix is releasing for the 360, just the first. While FFXII doesn't look like it will be, any talk about future games coming or not coming out for the 360 is pure speculation. It would seem to be in Microsoft's best interests to get any many S-E games as possible to come out for the 360.

Re:That's a first

[burntsigil]

So.....what? Japan ALWAYS has to have the console first, lest they be offended? If memory serves, the last time WE got a console before japan was, lemme think.... the Atari? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If such is the case, screw Japan. They don't HAVE to have everything first. Let them be bitchy if they want. Doesn't make them look good.

Re:That's a first

[Fred Or Alive]

Well, I think these are the final release dates. It would probably be a major PR blow to pull back now. (I don't think Sony ever set it in stone that the PSP was launching at the same time in Europe and the US, they just hinted heavily, then went back on it). Plus Microsoft have been saying they're going for a near worldwide (or at least the 3 major markets) launch for months, they've had plenty of time to plan this.

I saw the launch issue of the UK Offical Xbox 360 Magazine in WHSmiths today as well, which does point to a UK launch being soon.

Re:That's a first

[PePeBoTiKa]

Yes, bue the japanese edition is A LOT less expensive

Re:That's a first

[badasscat]

It would seem to be in Microsoft's best interests to get any many S-E games as possible to come out for the 360.

It would have been in their best interests last time around too, but it didn't happen.

Don't assume all this stuff happens in a vacuum. Sony is actively trying to thwart all of MS's moves in Japan and they have the advantage of playing on their home turf - they know the guys as S-E, they work with them all the time, they literally speak the same language. They also run their businesses the same way - the Japanese way. They understand each other, and know they can work together... especially if a bit of extra cash for an "exclusive" is thrown around.

MS was not able to get the offline FF series on the original Xbox and I doubt they will get it on the Xbox 360. This is still Square's bread and butter (as far as FF goes) and Sony knows it's what sells systems. I also doubt you'll see a Dragon Quest on Xbox 360 either - which is arguably even more important in Japan, where DQ outsells FF.

Square-Enix may throw MS a bone every once in a while, but it will likely be old games like FFXI that have run out their exclusivity deals, and crap like Drakengard that nobody really cares about anyway. All so MS can count S-E as a development partner and use it in their marketing.

Re:That's a first

[heroicnonsense]

Xbox launched on March 14th 2002 in Europe.

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot about the Nintendo DS

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

I like how they punish the places that bought the original product, by charging them more.

Now, we only have to wait to know how much it will cost in Europe. I bet that the premium pack will be around US$ 450.

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

You call that a snub? How about the PSP release - the US launch was 3 months after Japan, and the European launch was a whole NINE MONTHS later than the original release. Not to mention that the price was way higher than in other regions, to the extent that it's cheaper to import from the US or Japan, including shipping fees and import tax, than to buy the domestic release. Sorry, but in the circumstances I just can't bring myself to feel sorry for those poor Japanese who will have to wait a couple of weeks extra for the new Xbox.

Re:That's a first

[F_Scentura]

"Microsoft really messed up in japan with the first xbox, if you dont know games then there would be no obvious reason to think that japan is either a) a hugely influential videogame market or b) that the market and whole videogame culture is significantly different from the west.

It really was a rookie mistake on Microsofts part, surely at some point someone with a clue must of realised that Halo just wasn't going to get the japanese as excited as it did everybody else."

Microsoft wanting a world presence has little to do with their courting of the japanese market. They made the right move in getting their foot in the door, and *then* moving on to games that Japanese gamers may be more interested in.

They established a presence, and had no unrealistic expectations of destroying Sony.

Re:That's a first

[The Lynxpro]

"Holy cow. Europe's getting a major console release before Japan. That's got to be a first."

I'm pretty sure Europe got Philips' CDi, Commodore's CD32, and Atari's Jaguar before Japan did... Oh wait... :)

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. Fuck Japan and the pious cloud they rolled in on.

Re:That's a first

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"Japanese consumers aren't stupid, they know the machine's coming out everywhere else before Japan. It's going to look like MS snubbing the country. They're not going to like it and the 360 is going to suffer from a draught of good Japanese games, I think (the titles reported to be in development is the bare minimum it needs and I doubt even those titles are going to buoy the machine too much in Japan)."

Hey, that's the same reason the PS1 failed in the United States. Sony foolishly released the PS1 in Japan before the U.S. and the Americans knew the country was getting snubbed.

Hey, wait a minute...

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

as I see it, the releases strategy is set up this way to flood the xmas celebrating markets before releasing to the Shinto and Buddhist, non xmas celebrating market.

You've obviously never been to Japan.

Or read much about it.

Christmas is HUGE there.

Christianity has long had a toe-hold in Japanese culture. We erased the single largest Christian community in the country when we dropped one of the A-bombs, but during the Marshall Plan reconstruction a lot of western nations sent new missionaries over there.

So Christianity over there is sort of the cool, exotic, "alt" religion you adopt to freak out your traditional Shinto parents, kind of the way Buddhism is seen over here.

Being a rather materialistic society (especially in the big cities), even non-Christians totally get off on Christmas over there, shopping-mall Santas and all.

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Japan tends to get consoles first because Japanese companies MAKE THEM. Geez.

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a fucking moron?

They already released the EU prices for the XBox 360 packages a month ago, I'm sure the story was duped at least once as well.

On second thought don't bother answering, the question was rhetorical.

Re:That's a first

[KillShill]

yeah like every other console in history that has come out in japan first and has snubbed the rest of the world.

sounds like they're finally getting a taste of what they've been dishing out.

i mean why bother releasing in japan at all... this isn't the 80's or 90's... just leave it to nintendo and sony and let the console world expand beyond japan.

just because japan has been dominant the past decades doesn't mean they always will.

europe, north america and the rest of the world are a far far bigger audience than japan will ever be.

and the developers in japan will no doubt jump on the bandwagon... after all, if it makes money they have no choice.

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

If you know Christmas is huge there, then Im sure you also know that the only reason Christmas is huge is for couples to get together, right? Families don't celebrate Christmas in Japan and as far as I know, thats where the huge Christmas season market comes from. Not many couples buying their partners game consoles.

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely that debacle should be blamed on Michael Bay or Ben Affleck!

Re:That's a first

[Anonymous Coward]

That's probably becuase the Xbox sold pretty horribly in Japan. Microsoft's priorities are probably to get it out to the places that actually care, THEN release and put out an effort in places they've struggled.

You sir are correct. In fact even Steve Ballmer said numerous times in interviews that he believes they will lose Japan, win USA and Europe will be shared.

I think he's pretty much right on spot there.

Re:That's a first

[drsquare]

I don't think 'draught' means what you think it means. Unless some people drink computer games.

Re:That's a first

[DeadScreenSky]

I don't entirely disagree with your point, but you should probably be aware that Square-Enix was actually planning on releasing FFXI on the Xbox1. MS asked them to wait for the 360 (which was a smart move, IMO). 'S-E' has mentioned this in at least one or two interviews, though I don't have links handy. They are a smart enough company that they want to be in on the (rather large) Xbox market, same as the Playstation and Nintendo markets.

They might even be smart enough to realize that Sony being on more or less equal footing with MS or Nintendo is more advantagous for third parties, (especially ones with S-E's clout). They've certainly made a big deal publically about a multiplatform approach being better for the next-generation, though obviously this could just be psychological warfare to get a better deal with Sony...

Re:That's a first

[elrous0]

Surely that debacle should be blamed on Michael Bay or Ben Affleck!

The question is, which would you rather sit through, the movie or the actual attack?

Screw it, I can take cover from the Japanese. There is no escape from overacting.

-Eric

Last

[coolnicks]

Well at least were not last to get it.

Re:Last

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but YOU will be the last... sorry, coulndn't resist ASS mode.

XBOX 360

[EvilMonkeySlayer]

It's 357 times better than the Playstation 3!

Re:XBOX 360

[cmossell]

Correction, it is 120 times better, and exactly 357 better. I thought I'd clear that up for you.

Re:XBOX 360

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean it's 120 times better.

Re:XBOX 360

[richie2000]

How much is that in VW Beetles?

Re:XBOX 360

[UTPinky]

42

Re:XBOX 360

[thuh Freak]

How much is that in VW Beetles?

I believe it is a few grand in "bucks in quarters".

Re:XBOX 360

[EvilMonkeySlayer]

You know what I find annoying?

Retarded mods, I make a joke mocking the whole fanboy thing and I end up with a score of 0.

Nice joke btw. Would have been funnier if you put some PS3 fanboyism in there though. :)

Re:XBOX 360

[identity0]

You think that's bad?

I bought a GameCube, and it was exactly 63 worse than my old N64 :(

YES!

[RealityMogul]

I honestly can't wait for this thing to hit the shelves. I will be first in line... to pick up a discounted original XBox.

Re:YES!

[V3locity]

and I'm still waiting on my modded XBoX!

Re:YES!

[bleckywelcky]

If they severely discounted it, I might pick one up and hack it. For about $100 you can pick up a Pentium III 733 MHz system with similar specs except for maybe the video system.

If it was down to $60 or so, you could have a cheap and effective box to run a Linux PVR from, and perhaps even the ability to play an XBox game (are there any good XBox games?).

Re:YES!

[radish]

You can have mine on the 23rd...

Re:YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

are there any good XBox games?

Are you kidding? There are *tons* of great XBOX games:

- Halo
- Halo 2

What more could you want?

Re:YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

cheap and effective box to run a Linux PVR from

negative. the xbox only supports usb 1.1 which is not fast enough to have a decent PVR.

Re:YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

more than 2 good games?

Re:YES!

[bombadillo]

If it was down to $60 or so, you could have a cheap and effective box to run a Linux PVR from, and perhaps even the ability to play an XBox game (are there any good XBox games?).

The XBOX has no TV in capabilities. I haven't seen any mods for a TV in either. If you have seen a hack for this please send a link.

Re:YES!

[Professor_UNIX]

negative. the xbox only supports usb 1.1 which is not fast enough to have a decent PVR.

The XBox makes a pretty good PVR frontend though for MythTV from what I've heard. You still use a backend system to do the actual storage and recording though, but you can throw that in your basement like I did so you don't have it in your livingroom.

Re:YES!

[Fred Or Alive]

Project Gotham Racing 2 is good as well, Jet Set Radio Future, Outrun 2, and a few others. The Xbox has had quite a lot of good titles, although I'm not sure if many will be remembered as true classics, probably just very good games. Although Outrun 2 is a true classic already in my mind.

The Xbox usually has the nicest versions of multi-platform titles as well.

Re:YES!

[nb caffeine]

Well, the only way around this that i have seen are twofold:
1: get a usb tv tuner that has linux drivers, and run linux on the ol xbox. Problem is, the usb is 1.1, not really fast enough for good quality.
2: mythtv. Run a myth frontend on the xbox while having another computer doing the backend recording someplace else in the house/apartment/whatever. This way you can record while watching another show and not worry about the horsepower of the xbox doing both those at once (if it would even be possible).

I considered the first option, but i had some previous expirence with USB tv tuners, and well, at 1.1 speeds it just plain sucks. I was thinking about option 2, then remembered im broke, so couldnt afford the cards needed and also dont have cable. So i never implemented it. Anyway, good luck and have fun hackin the xbox!

ps: sweet nick you got there!

Re:YES!

[bombadillo]

I tend to run XBMC with my XBOX. When I get around to hacking my DirectTV TIVO I should be able to share the TIVO streams. If you have directTV you may want to go that route.

Re:YES!

[nb caffeine]

My parents have a directivo, but my xbox doesn't make it to their house often.
I do believe, but dont hold me to this, that there is/was a xbmc plugin for xbmc (xbmc is my media player of choice. every xbox owner should have it)

as far as reading the tivo streams, i have almost zero expirence with tivo, but it sounds like a cool solution.

Re:YES!

[pomo monster]

Photoshop?

Re:YES!

[RoadDoggFL]

Hey, find me a machine that can pump out visuals on par with Chaos Theory and Doom 3 (Xbox versions) for less than $150 and you'll have a worthwhile link on your hands.

Re:YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to do the same thing. I just want to play the second shenmue (why was it so underated... why?)

Re:YES!

[porcupine8]

Ha ha, you sound like me. I was hoping to wait to get a GameCube 'til Revolution is released... Now that it looks like that'll be a while, I might be asking for a GC for Christmas anyhow, since I bet they'll get a holiday price drop to compete with this... And the Revolution sounds cool enough that I might actually get one when it comes out.

Re:YES!

[IpalindromeI]

(NB: The following does not apply to the XBox.)

If you get a capture card that does the encoding itself, recording the video doesn't really take any CPU. I use an Athlon 550MHz machine for my Myth box, and with a Hauppauge 250 capture card, it can easily display one show while recording another.

Re:YES!

[Loonacy]

You're a Nintendo fangirl, but you don't have a GameCube yet? You need to hand in your fangirl certification, I'm afraid. Come back when you're a real fan!

Re:YES!

[nb caffeine]

good point. I wonder if there is a usb tuner that could do the encoding, and be able to compress it enough such that the bandwidth limit on 1.1 isn't a big restriction.

Thats just kind of a whatif for me, since i dont have cable :)

Re:YES!

[Tibor the Hun]

you know, i just got a used cube for 50 bucks.
i was gonna wait for an xbox, but figured i can't go wrong for 50 bucks...
and I'm so happy with it too.

Re:YES!

[porcupine8]

I'm a Nintendo fangirl who doesn't like spending money, and also thinks the SNES is the best game system ever made with some of the best games ever made. :)

Re:YES!

[timeOday]

get a usb tv tuner that has linux drivers, and run linux on the ol xbox. Problem is, the usb is 1.1, not really fast enough for good quality.

12 Mbit/s is be plenty. Half that would be plenty. DVD is, what, 5mbps?

Re:YES!

[Loonacy]

Bah... Girls don't spend money, they get guys to buy them things. Just find a guy who will buy you a GC and flirt with him a bit. ;)

Re:YES!

[poofyhairguy82]

Get one soon. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Its worth it just for Wind Waker (and I got my money's worth out of Paper Mario too).

Re:YES!

[toddestan]

Hey, find me a machine that can pump out visuals on par with Chaos Theory and Doom 3 (Xbox versions) for less than $150 and you'll have a worthwhile link on your hands.

A standard TV is something like 320x200 resolution? That's probably well within the capabilities of a stock PIII system with non-integrated graphics.

Re:YES!

[RoadDoggFL]

But an HDTV isn't. Xboxes can output most games (like Chaos Theory) in highger resolutions than that. And I said "visuals," not specifically resolution. So if you build a PC that can produce the image (polygons, bump mapping normal mapping, and I don't know what shaders the Xbox supports if any) that an Xbox does for $150 I'll be floored.

All this console bashing and I'm still waiting for PC gamers to deliver.

Re:YES!

[nb caffeine]

in theory, it is 12 mbps, but in pratice, the usb tuners ive used looked like ass

Re:YES!

[timeOday]

Come to think of it my brother has (or had) a usb tuner and hated it. I wonder what the problem is.

Re:YES!

[RealityMogul]

Hey Lunacy, that sure is a cool handle. And that uid is pretty hot. Maybe we can IM sometime sweety-pie.

P.S. I need you to send me a GC first xoxoxo

Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now even the fat, worthless nerds who arn't good enough to use a real computer can lock themselves in their room for the next six months and leave the real world to the rest of us.

The downside is we'll have to put up with them all wanking about it for the next two months until the fucking peice of shit is released.

Re:Great!

[Ryz0r]

You sound like a Sony zealot..

Now, this is a question I ask you all... Which are worse, the playstation fanboys or xbox lovers?

We all know the specs, mainly because you obsessives have been creaming yourselves posting them on forums arguing why x is better than y

There is no better console(of the same generation), it all boils down to which has the best games - that's all i care about, anyway: what's the point in spending shitloads of your hard earned cash on something that can do amazing things, but the only thing you can play on it is a glorified version of pac man?

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like a Sony zealot.

Playstation fanboys are just as fat and useless as XBox zealots who are equally pathetic as Gamecube owners. Fat, useless wank stains the lot of them.

Which are worse, the playstation fanboys or xbox lovers?

All of them. The only difference is whos cock they suck.

If you're wondering, you're even more worthless than most console fanboys because you seem to think there is some sort of debate to be had here. Nope. Useless and fat. All of you.

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

> but the only thing you can play on it is a glorified version of pac man?

is this a confirmed launch title?

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Video game snob card revoked.

Pac-man was awesome.

Re:Great!

[KillShill]

then why not buy both?

that way you get twice as many choices of games.

most people who are gamers have a ton of disposable cash anyway.

just buy all 3 and be done with it.

that's if you don't mind financially helping the DRM industry grow and rewarding companies that use it to hold the true owners of the machines hostage. but i digress.

Waiting time

[obii]

At least Europeans don't have to wait as long as for Sonys' PSP...

The release date in Europe was over 6 months after the release date in Japan and USA.

Re:Waiting time

[Ryz0r]

I know, but if you think about it objectively, the PSP has done better in Europe than it has done in both Japan and the USA, so really, it was just a clever marketing plan. However i know a few people who just got their PSPs imported from japan with the better spec screen before the european release date anyway.

I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

I purchased the PS2 and the XBox on release, but the XBox 360 does not have me excited. It doesn't use HD DVD, but standard DVD, costs 400 with hard drive. Wireless is extra, extra controllers are a lot extra. Games are 60 dollars and it doesn't play XBox games.

Where is the advantage in buying this thing? It's not really a huge leap in technology and it's not much to get excited about.

The PSP I bought (v1.5) is a much more interesting device, especially since I have to fly so frequently.

Re:I am not excited

[Spaceman Spiff II]

I know what you mean, but hey, at least it looks pretty cool. ;-)

One console that I am excited about, though, is the Nintendo Revolution due out probably some time next year. The president of Nintendo is going to do the keynote at this year's Tokyo Games thing, and will most likely reveal a giant mystery about it: what the controller is going to be like! Speculation is wide, and a lot of people are thinking it might use gyroscopic technologies to sense the moving of the controller. Also, the Revolution will be able to play every Nintendo game ever made all the way back to the NES!

Tune in at 7PM tonight to see what his announcement is.

Re:I am not excited

[DogDude]

Wireless is extra

I'm just wondering.... what do you use wireless for with a console? Wireless controllers? Are the massive, like 9' cables that current controllers come with not long enough? If I were to sit any further away than the cables on the PS2 controller allow, I wouldn't be able to see the game!

Re:I am not excited

[bynary]

I have small children. Wireless controllers are perfect because when they walk between me and the TV they don't trip over my cables and A) yank the cable out of the console or B) yank the console off the entertainment center.

Re:I am not excited

[yotto]

Wireless controllers are more about convenience and clutter than they are about distance.
With 4 people huddled around a television, that's 4 little tripwires every time you have to go to the bathroom. With wireless, the problem vanishes.

Re:I am not excited

[radish]

I keep wireless controllers on the coffee table. That way I can just pick up and play. The WAF of a bunch of cables running across the living room floor is remarkably low.

Re:I am not excited

[baggachipz]

Get your facts straight. It does play all Xbox games, games AREN'T 60 dollars (They're 50, just like now) and there are no HD DVD's on store shelves yet to play anyway.

Re:I am not excited

[radish]

It doesn't use HD DVD, but standard DVD
True. But that's mainly because HD DVD doesn't really exist yet (in saleable quantities).

costs 400 with hard drive
With a hard drive, and a wireless controller, and a headset, and a remote control and component video cables. If you add up the price of those extras for the current Xbox, it's probably around $100. Add that to the Xbox original launch price ($299) and, well, whaddya know.

Wireless is extra
Yup, and the wireless adapter is overpriced. However, there's nothing stopping you picking up a much cheaper generic bridge. I am annoyed that they couldn't do something better in that respect.

extra controllers are a lot extra
First party Xbox 1 controllers are $30. Decent wireless ones (i.e. Logitech) are $50. Xbox360 controllers are $40, wireless ones are $50. Basically no difference there.

Games are 60 dollars
Well that's still up for debate as far as I can tell (and I'm following this pretty closely). Yes some games are up on online stores at $60, but some are $50 and I've heard rumors that price points will be generally the same as they are now (i.e. $40 to $50).

and it doesn't play XBox games
Yes, it does. Just probably not all Xbox games.

Re:I am not excited

[Reapy]

I don't think I've ever bought a consol based on the hardware, nor do I ever plan to.

Proprietary games are what get me to buy a consol.

Re:I am not excited

[thatguywhoiam]

One console that I am excited about, though, is the Nintendo Revolution [wikipedia.org] due out probably some time next year. The president of Nintendo is going to do the keynote at this year's Tokyo Games thing, and will most likely reveal a giant mystery about it: what the controller is going to be like! Speculation is wide, and a lot of people are thinking it might use gyroscopic technologies to sense the moving of the controller. Also, the Revolution will be able to play every Nintendo game ever made all the way back to the NES!

Don't take this the wrong way. But...

How can you be so excited about a console you know practically nothing about?

I see this come out in every Xbox 360 / PS3 forum. You know nothing! Revolution may not even be the name of the bloody thing?

So - seriously - wft is there to be excited about? I like Nintendo, they do some neat stuff, but we don't know about the specs, the controller, the format, the lineup... anything!

(flicking holy water) The power of brand compels you! The power of brand ..... compels...

Re:I am not excited

[supabeast!]

I agree, the Xbox 360 launch is pretty bland. I think that the biggest problem is a lack of hyped games - there was the big crazy launch party where they showed a bunch of CGI rendered on Powermacs and claimed it was what we'll be playing, and then went into hiding. Due to this big lack of important press, if I got an Xbox 360 for launch, I don't even know what the hell I'd be able to do with. If Microsoft wants to avoid stores with huge overstocks of Xbox 360s on December 26, they really need to shut up about the hardware and show us the games.

Re:I am not excited

[sspurrier]

Actually if you RTFA you will see for 400 bucks wireless controllers are included. And 60 dollars for games is becoming pretty standard for new high desirability titles. And saying this thing is not a huge leap in technology...they went from what was a glorified P3 733 with and nforce GPU and 128 MBs of ram to 3 dual core power pcs processors and an extremely innovative ATi GPU that is actually causing some headaches in the game developer community (but then again so is the PS3). If you don't want it ..fine but those who enjoy console gaming will see the need and when the price point hits their sweet spot they will buy.

Re:I am not excited

[ColdForged]

Amazing that essentially a "yawn" gets an "Interesting" moderation.

It doesn't use HD DVD, but standard DVD

Does anything? Should they hold up the release date and tack on another $100 -- at least -- to the price for HD-DVD when no one else has it and there's no software for it aside from games?

Wireless is extra, extra controllers are a lot extra.

A wireless controller is included in that $400 you just mentioned with the hard drive. And since when are extra controllers ever included?

Games are 60 dollars and it doesn't play XBox games.

Really? The first-party ones I've seen are still $50. And it will support Xbox games if you have the hard drive, though precisely which Xbox games is still a matter of confusion.

Re:I am not excited

[otomoton]

You must not keep up on the news very well... It is backwards compatable, you just need the HDD because that's where most of the games saved their info to. I think they only ones that supposedly have issues are the ones that try to reference the memory card when they save.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

ahh only if they had a turn on switch on it too.

Re:I am not excited

[justforaday]

How can you be so excited about a console you know practically nothing about?

Oh, c'mon. We know that it will be a black rectangle and that it will have nifty controllers. Isn't that enough?

Re:I am not excited

[tgd]

To even more debunk the grandparent:

With a hard drive, and a wireless controller, and a headset, and a remote control and component video cables. If you add up the price of those extras for the current Xbox, it's probably around $100. Add that to the Xbox original launch price ($299) and, well, whaddya know.

Thats probably closer to $200. The component video cable is in the $60 range, the headset and adapter is nearly $50. Remote control is $30. Wireless controllers vary but the good ones are at least $60.

Re:I am not excited

[lurker4hire]

Well, I can't speak for the grandparent poster, but here's why I'm excited for the revolution.

1. Known company with proven (to me, through personal experience) commitment to keeping games fun and trying interesting things with hardware (some fails sure, but at least they're trying)

2. Ability to play every nintendo console game! I missed N64 so I'm really looking forward to that. (btw this is a feature announced at E3)

3. A feeling that they'll try to keep the cost to consumer down. They've pretty much got the low cost thing down, and I'm hoping it'll be a console I don't have to think too hard about picking up. The 360 and PS3 are too expensive to 'just buy' I need to wait and see which is better before making a purchase of that size.

Put all that together and I'm excited... I'm also excited about both the 360 and ps3, but more so to determine which of the two I will buy. I was actually hoping for a more media centre type function from the 360, so it's making me lean more toward waiting and seeing rather than buying anyways.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop lying idiot.

Who the fuck do you think you are fooling.

The fucking imbeciles at MS just had a very public survey asking for people to vote on which games they want ported to the Dreamcast 360.

Did you think no one noticed...

Re:I am not excited

[jiushao]

Knowing that there is nothing special of interest in a new console (the xbox 360 and PS2) is a lot less exciting than not knowing what will happen with another. So I think "excited" is a good word here. It does not however imply that one should think that it is a sure buy or anything.

To me at least the things we know about the Revolution is that the hardware will be roughly similar to the xbox 360 in the common metrics (give or take 50% it is the same basic CPU, memory and graphics technology). However there is still the possibility that Nintendo has something up its sleeve that might make this generation actually interesting.

I don't want to be one of the grumpy old people complaining about new things, but really, this generation seems to be a very incremental improvement. In some areas even a step back since no console will have a harddrive in their basic configuration. While one can surely upgrade to one of the new ones it is more or less like moving from a GeForce FX to a 7000-series on the PC; you'll get the same basic thing, just a bit more of it.

Don't compare this to the PSX -> PS2 step, sure it just added more power, but the difference is that the PSX were too weak for a lot of gameplay possibilities. There does not seem to be much new gameplay possibilities on the PS3 as of yet (though I'd love to be proven wrong), just a bit more polish and glitz.

Re:I am not excited

[MisterMurphy]

It does play all Xbox games

Sure, if you consider emulating a few popular titles the same thing as natively being backwards compatible for the entire library. PSPs play all NES titles! Amazing!

and there are no HD DVD's on store shelves yet to play anyway.

The XBox 360 is a rather large investment, and it isn't just as a game console. With the convergence happening in the home entertainment sector, it is also jockeying with DVD players. And once I've sunk 400+ dollars into it, I don't want to have to buy a brand new DVD player once HD DVD has made my old DVDs into the new VHS.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Specs: better than the current generation, that's all the matters. Flops, texture fill, etc. are all pointless numbers that mean nothing if they aren't used in interesting ways, and are generally presented as unrealistic numbers to give the impression of a major advantage over competitors.

Format: 12cm optical disc. The system is supposed to be capable of playing DVDs with a dongle, so likely DVD discs. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by format?

Lineup: There will be a new Zelda and a new Mario, and likely a new game from most of the Nintendo franchises. Which, really, isn't much less than what I know about some of the games that have been announced for the PS3 and 360.

Controller: Isn't this what he's getting excited about? Personally, I'm sort of excited too. It has, based on the comments of some developers, been seen by some 3rd-parties, and they seem to be impressed. Besides, I'd like to see a controller that isn't essentially a SNES with sticks (PS3), or a Saturn 3D controller (360) that's been modified slightly to match the system stylings.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

First party Xbox 1 controllers are $30. Decent wireless ones (i.e. Logitech) are $50. Xbox360 controllers are $40, wireless ones are $50. Basically no difference there.

Going from $30 to $40 is a 33% price increase... I would hardly call 33% basically no difference

Re:I am not excited

[j0nb0y]

Ability to play every nintendo console game! I missed N64 so I'm really looking forward to that. (btw this is a feature announced at E3)

You misread the feature. It will only be able to play games released for it, which won't be every game. The real feature is a download service for these games.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

I might be mistaken, but it will be backwards compatible with the gamecube. I was looking over Nes ROMS to download the other night. It amazes me how many games there were and how many of them totally sucked ass. Now I love some Nes games to death, but many of them were so horrid that they defy explanation.

So I think not having every game isn't going to be a big deal. Although I'm sure some of the top titles of yester-year will fall through the cracks, most of the good ones will make it I'm sure (especially since many of them were made by Nintendo themselves).

Re:I am not excited

[Dracolytch]

Why is the above question flamebait? Just because someone doesn't see value in something that doesn't provide value to them?

It's a legitimate question (with legitimate answers, such as the small-child response). One that I've ased myself about things such as wireless mice (I know some people have good uses for 'em, but I like my mice cheap and w/o batteries), or wireless monitors (Yes, these do exist. No, I haven't figured out a mass-market rationale yet).

~D

Re:I am not excited

[archen]

Haha! how times change!

Can't remember how many times my parents would trip over my controller cables. Now my kids get to do it to me.

Come to think of it I can't get away from people doing this. First my parents, then drunk college friends, then kids... I hope I'm never hooked up to an iv in a hospital when I'm old...

Re:I am not excited

[elrous0]

As long as it has that fat little Dago running around and jumping stuff, what else matters?!?!

-Eric

Re:I am not excited

[Dracolytch]

I've seen the gameplay footage of the 360, and I thought it was suprisingly lackluster. Of all the mindless fanboyism I see when I walk into my local game store, I'm really not excited about this device. I think it's going to be a disappointment.

As for the PSP, I have to admit, I'm very happy with the purchase. It took me a few months to finally get one (Will I really use it? Is it worth the expense? etc.), but I absolutely love the bugger.

The fact that it has a built-in browser is delicious on those few occaions when I have to travel for weddings and such (no laptop). All I need is a keyboard for it.

~D

Re:I am not excited

[frishack]

Then go buy wireless controllers for your original xbox. If that's the only advantage you see.

Seriously, an accessory 20GB hard drive for US$99. There is nothing at all different or exciting about this console.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where to start .

Dago is a racialist remark .It is a remark aimed at Spanish or Portuguese people. Well some People of Spanish/ Portuguese origin use the term in the same way that a few black people use the N word
Most importantly of all Mario and Luigi are Italian ..
You are rather confused

Re:I am not excited

[elrous0]

I'm glad you told me that. I certainly wouldn't want to be a "racialist."

-Eric

Re:I am not excited

[Fred Or Alive]

And why do I suspect that this download service may involve paying to download these games (or at least some of them). I kinda doubt Nintendo (especially Nintendo) are going to suddenly start giving it all away for free.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you talking about. All of the games with confirmed pricing are 50 dollars. It does have backwards compatibility. And there will not be and BluRay or HDDVD drives available commercially in any product at the time they are launching. How do you expect them to launch with a drive that is non-existant?

Re:I am not excited

[Fred Or Alive]

I only have a UK price list, but in the UK official Xbox controllers currently have an RRP of £25. The RRP of the wired 360 controller is... £25. (The wireless controller RRP is about the same as the Nintendo Wavebird).

Perhaps the grandparent is comparing a store's discounted cost (the RRP may be £25, but Amazon have them for £21, I can probably find it cheaper if I look harder) to an RRP?

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

It could be anything, the imagination can run wild... as opposed to when they reveal all details and pondering is no fun.

Re:I am not excited

[mrgreen4242]

Uh, so? Yes, YOU may have already paid for some of those games, so feel free to keep playing them in your SNES/N64 whatever.

As long as the prices are reasonable (say $8-10 or less for N64 games and $3 or 4 for SNES) it'll be a good service and will let people buy games that are FUN and CHEAP. Something that's its competitors are, at best, only going to do half of... most likely they won't be able to either.

Re:I am not excited

[Physician]

Revolution may not even be the name of the bloody thing? Wow, that changes everything because if it turns out it has a different name, I don't think I can buy it. Cheerio and enjoy your tea and crumpets. Long live the queen and all that stuff, brit.

Re:I am not excited

[JourneyExpertApe]

I have small children. Wireless controllers are perfect because when they walk between me and the TV they don't trip over my cables and A) yank the cable out of the console or B) yank the console off the entertainment center.

Note the missing option:
C) fall and hurt themselves

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for that statement of the blindingly obvious. Next on the agenda is to describe how sky is blue, water is wet and rocks are hard. Cool.

Re:I am not excited

[Fred Or Alive]

Well, I was more pointing this out becuase some "fanboys" seem to think that Nintendo are basically going to put their entire back catalouge (including 3rd party games) out for free.

I suppose a cheap, legit way to get old games is good, but I do wish Nintendo would stop flogging their back catalouge constantly. Although that's more been a problem with the GameBoy Advance.

Re:I am not excited

[bynary]

Ah, but I don't have an Xbox. There may be nothing exciting to you about the 360, but I'm excited about its backwards compatibility with many Xbox games, its use of a PPC chip, the fact that said 20GB hard drive is removable and portable (this addresses my biggest complaint about the original Xbox, well after they started shipping with the S controller that is.), it has wireless controllers, it has more processing power than the original, and it will have a new Halo and new Perfect Dark. To each his own.

Personally, I'm more excited about the Nintendo Revolution.

Re:I am not excited

[Fred Or Alive]

It's only partially backwards compatible though, it's not the near total backwards compatability of the GameBoy series, the Nintendo DS, or the PlayStation 2.

It's rather disapointing really. I think it's a bit obvious that they got caught with their trousers down, they thought they could get away with no backwards compatability, but it turns out to be one of the main selling points (even if people don't use it much, it would seem rather bad compared to the PS3 and Revolution), so they've implemented this half-assed "most popular" approach.

I do agree a hard disk is probably needed for Xbox 1 compatability, whatever way it's done, though, as most XBox 1 games (at least the exclusive ones) use it for caches etc., which would be hard or near impossible to emulate in RAM or Flash.

Re:I am not excited

[bynary]

Yeah...hmmmm...kind of forgot that part...

\hangs head in shame

Re:I am not excited

[lurker4hire]

I don't know about others, but I never expected it to be free.

I've got a job, if I need to shell out a couple bucks to challenge a friend to some classic gaming action I won't complain.

And for that matter, I don't expect the whole catalog, I don't want it... just give me a decent, diverse, selection of games to play (in the little time i've got to play em) and I'm happy.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Because something that is mysterious is more interesting than something that is known. When you don't know what something is, you can imagine what it is, and often your imagination can be much better than the reality.

That aside, we do know quite a bit about the console that has people exited, including the fact that you're supposed to be able to download classic Nintendo games over the internet using the console (whether for free or for pay is unknown as of yet). That alone is enough reason for a lot of people to be excited about it.

Re:I am not excited

[ianscot]

How can you be so excited about a console you know practically nothing about?

This is a great question. It isn't quite as good as:

How can the new XBox and PS offerings be so underwhelming that we're much more excited by the one we know practically nothing about?

I can see being worked up over both the one you know (and can soon buy) and the one you don't know -- but we're not, really, are we?

I'm more interested to see what Nintendo does with the DS version of Animal Crossing than I am to see shiny helmet reflections in Madden on the 360. Seriously.

Re:I am not excited

[dioscaido]

I'm not a huge console guy, but the Xbox360 (like the PS3) are huge leaps from their previous generation. The xbox is upgrading from a 700mhz processor to three 3ghz cores. There's also a big bump in memory and a fairly wicked video card. One early example of what is now possible with this hardware -- the devs for Project Gotham Racing tried to test the limits of the Xbox360, and were able to get 35,000 spectators on the sidelines of the race, each performing activities from a range of motion capture audience behaviors, with no slow down in frame rate. Game developers will be able to do a whole lot more with the hardware. Hopefully that translates into good games... That remains to be seen.

Personally, I'm interested in its expanded support for Xbox Live, and its built in media center extender capabilities. Once you've done online gaming on the Xbox, it's hard to go back to the PS2 (even though some of their games do support online... badly). The PS3 may have better online support than the PS2. As of now, the Xbox360 will be providing v2 of a well tested online-gaming platform for developers, while the PS3 may just have good network hardware but each game will still have to implement a custom online gaming platform.

Re:I am not excited

[Slothy]

You're confused. Sony showed the CG (why would people care what platform was used to render the CG?). Microsoft showed actual games.

There were quite a few 360 games at E3 that were being played live.

Re:I am not excited

[springbox]

How can you be so excited about a console you know practically nothing about?

Because it's not the specs or pretty pictures some people are primarily interested in. I think it's because some of the proposed features of the system like being able to play games from older Nintendo consoles on it. That's something to get excited over.

Re:I am not excited

[Shadow99_1]

Well I can't give you a list, but MS has provided some info to the people where I work that says Xbox games will be supported by a kind of 'game definition' file and it is currently supposed to ship with at least 10 and as many as 20 definitions with more to be released (and from what they say now released free of charge) after launch. How many depends on how much work that division can get done before launch. Since it's software emulation it's a tad problematic and unless they are tested to work correctly and at a speed at least equal to the native hardware they won't release a definition for it...

I hope that answers some questions on compatability with 1st gen xbox games...

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Give it a rest retard.

Nothing is more pathetic than a xbox fanboy still clinging to the "E3 CG" bullshit.

Let me guess dimwit, you spent the last four years parroting the bogus Sony Toy Story claim...

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

I purchased the PS2 and the XBox on release, but the XBox 360 does not have me excited.

Heh, Just wait till November 21. ;)

Re:I am not excited

[ChrisF79]

If it senses movement, my girlfriend won't be able to play anything at all. Every time she plays my old school NES, and hits the button to make Mario jump, her arms go up and down about a foot. It's really a ridiculous sight. That would have to affect her gameplay with a gyroscope based controller.

Re:I am not excited

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Don't compare this to the PSX -> PS2 step, sure it just added more power, but the difference is that the PSX were too weak for a lot of gameplay possibilities. There does not seem to be much new gameplay possibilities on the PS3 as of yet (though I'd love to be proven wrong), just a bit more polish and glitz.

HD game play. While it could be written off as "glitz", being stuck with NTSC (or PAL) is IMO horrendous. I can't imagine a serious gamer saying they want VGA level resolution when they can get so much better, up to 6x more pixels. I tried playing the demos of the current console on a standard TV at a store, and it just looks awful. It's a pain shooting down a blob when it could actually have some detail.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one am excited because they do this weird thing called "innovate"

They may not hit the nail on the head every time they come up with something, but for the most part they make very good and very fun games.

They dont try to rely on flashy graphics or nudity to sell a game. I play games for the fun of playing the game, not for the cut scenes, not because it has John Maddens name on it, not because the latest rapper is in it etc

Now the Gamecube was no slouch and I dont expect the revolution to be either. They made one mistake in their main segment with the N64 and people havent been able to get past it.

Re:I am not excited

[TyrionEagle]

Yeah, but they were being played "live" on G5 Macs.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should spend your time with your children and raise them to be good adults instead of being a video game playing zombie.

Re:I am not excited

[Blakey Rat]

Because it's Slashdot. Nintendo is the best game company ever on Slashdot. Nintendo is the Linux of the games section... everything is ALWAYS better on Nintendo! Don't you know? Nintendo, Nintendo, Nintendo! People also throw out the word "innovate" a lot. Innovate Nintendo, Nintendo innovation, innovative Nintendo, you know that whole drill. Nintendo is best! Buy Nintendo!

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

What does it take to get you to buy a vowel?

Re:I am not excited

[Warfire]

Microsoft are saying that the 360 will be compatable with the most popular Xbox titles through emulation.

IGN has it: http://xbox.ign.com/articles/639/639136p1.html

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked it was called the Playstion, not the Playstation X.

Re:I am not excited

[Slothy]

Is this news to you that early development kits for consoles are not the final hardware?

Re:I am not excited

[Slothy]

Hah, actually this past E3 I spent demoing Call of Duty 2 on the alpha dev kits.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

he was talking about the future of games, and some will be 60. all the good ones, in fact. so be prepared to shell out 60 for every game you would want

Re:I am not excited

[StoryMan]

You take your PSP to weddings?

And this doesn't qualify as "mindless fanboyism?"

Confused.

Re:I am not excited

[thatguywhoiam]

It doesn't use HD DVD, but standard DVD

Does anything? Should they hold up the release date and tack on another $100 -- at least -- to the price for HD-DVD when no one else has it and there's no software for it aside from games?

Well, we don't know what the price difference would be for sure but let's assume you are correct. Tacking on $100 would make the thing a lot less attractive.

However - I wanted to point something out. The format a console ships its software on is largely irrelevant. Look at Nintendo - up until the last gen they were still shipping games in little boxes of memory chips (cartridges). It could be the weirdest format in the world, but it doesn't matter, because it only works in one device.

Now, when the PS2 shipped they went with DVD when that was not yet super popular for home video. People did the fairly easy comparison of thinking 'hey it'll play PS2 games *and* DVDs, so its like getting two toys in one.'

The same thing will likely happen this time around with Blu-ray discs. The fact that the PS3 is guaranteed to ship millions in a short period of time (as is the X360) means an automatic foothold in the new video format that *will* have an installed base in the millions. Studios will then be able to point to that and see that they will be able to sell Blu-ray movies and make money.

Meanwhile Microsoft will be left out of this cycle because they 'only' have a DVD drive. And this has bad optics for the console that is pushing Hi Def Everything. So MS is faced with fracturing their market with two X360 versions (not the bundles, but with or without a HD optical drive) or just taking the hit - neither option looks good.

Essentially the HD format war was won at E3 when Sony announced that Blu-ray drive in the PS3. MS is pissed about it, they didn't think Sony would be able to pull it off. And don't forget, Sony also has a movie studio.

Re:I am not excited

[IpalindromeI]

Sixty bucks for a component video cable? I admit that I'm clueless about component video, but how can that price be correct? Sixty dollars just seems ridiculous for a cable. A quick search on Froogle turns up tons of results under $60. What am I missing?

Re:I am not excited

[tgd]

You're missing the fact that the XBox doesn't have a pile of RCA connectors on the back of it.

An XBox Component kit is expensive, and I think the MS one requires a second kit to get the optical output, as well. (I have the Monster cable kit because it was the only thing I could find locally... that was like $110 between the cost of the Monster component/optical cable and the actual optical adapter you need to actually plug the fiber into it).

Re:I am not excited

[Pulzar]

Essentially the HD format war was won at E3 when Sony announced that Blu-ray drive in the PS3. MS is pissed about it, they didn't think Sony would be able to pull it off.

What's there to "pull off"? You either decide to put a HD-DVD drive in it, or a DVD drive. It's purely a marketing/business decision -- how much will the drive cost, how much can we charge for the console, how much loss are we willing to take on the hardware, and then make the decision. It's not like Sony's engineers came up with a miracle new technology, they simply decided to spend the extra bucks and put the next generation optical drive in. I don't think MS was too surprised to see PS3 feature a blu-ray drive, not too gamers were.

Time will tell who made the right decision. You have a good point with the "dual toy" point of view, but if PS3 turns out to cost $100 more when it comes out (because Xbox 360 will be discounted by then), then that's going to eat into the sales, as well.

Re:I am not excited

[iamhassi]

"I have small children. Wireless controllers are perfect because when they walk between me and the TV they don't trip over my cables and A) yank the cable out of the console or B) yank the console off the entertainment center. "

ohhhh, so when your small children are trying to get your attention, trying to get you to stop playing games and spend a little time with them, a wireless controller will allow you to continue to ignore them?

that's great, just great, good to hear, really

Re:I am not excited

[IpalindromeI]

So a special connector in order to charge more for the cable? Or is this something that DVD players are moving towards as well, for better quality?

Re:I am not excited

[Dracolytch]

I take them on the ~trip~, I don't take them to the actual ~wedding~. I can't remember the last time I attended a local wedding. Sorry if that was unclear.

~D

Re:I am not excited

[tgd]

No, the XBox has a single connector on the back which provides the video and audio output. Depending on the cable plugged into it you might get RCAs + analog, or SVideo + optical, or component. It actually makes sense in some ways, but you don't get a choice which cable you get. I have all three because I didn't have an HD TV when I got the XBox, but needed the optical output the Advanced video pack gave me.

The fact that the 360 comes with the HD cables is a big value...

Newer DVD players are similar. My DVD player has HDMI, which I use to connect to my TV. Its not a special connector, but HDMI cables are a lot more expensive than component cables.

Re:I am not excited

[Saige]

There has been no announcement about which games are back compat for a reason - they're trying to get as many as possible to run.

What they're doing is going after making sure a few of the popular - and system demanding - titles are working, knowing that by getting those to run flawlessly, they're going to get a LOT more games to run just because those games will use a subset of what the other games did.

I'm sure we won't see 100% back compat, cause surely a few titles here and there are going to give problems, but not be popular enough to justify spending the time making them work. Heck, the PS2 wasn't 100% back compat. But I expect a large majority to be running right from the start, not just a few popular titles.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Hideo Kojima really wants to push gaming in a new direction with the power, rather than graphics. So he is looking at more immersive, 'living' environments with MGS4. He even stated that as long as the graphics don't get /worse/ than MGS3, he will be happy with the growth in other areas. I am intrigued by the thought of Kojima actually pulling off realistic urban guerilla warfare, but wonder if we have reached the stage where we can actually do that.

Re:I am not excited

[phxbadash]

Yeah I love mine too, except for the online multiplayer game browsers. The only game I've ever seen anyone actually online and playing is twisted metal and there were very few actual games running, most were just sitting in the lobby chatting. If you're going to do online mutliplayer fucking do it right or not at all. Sony had better get there shit together with regards to their multiplayer strategy or I will not even consider the console worth my time to get.

Re:I am not excited

[misfit13b]

When I bought mine it was only $20, and unlike the one pictured here, it had all of the cables (5) built in as one solid unit, the one exception being the optical cable for 5.1 sound. The port is on there, just not the cable.

Of course, this set won't work on the 360, and the optical cable port placement was really pathetic, but it certainly wasn't all that expensive.

Re:I am not excited

[KDR_11k]

Last time I checked it was called the Playstion

Did you buy a chinese imitation?

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

> when they walk between me and the TV

And who cares if their brains get slowly fried.

Re:I am not excited

[tgd]

Don't forget to add the component cables and optical cable. Thats another $40, if you order them online or buy them somewhere like Walmart.

Re:I am not excited

[misfit13b]

Nope, the component cables are built in (Y, Pb & Pr as well as stereo L & R). I don't know if it was the same when you bought yours, but the whole thing is now one massive piece. Unfortunately, not even the picture on the Xbox website itself has been updated. I was quite surprised myself.

I'll grant you the optical cable is still missing, yet they only go for $10 (more if you need longer runs I suppose).

Re:I am not excited

[NeMon'ess]

Why? Don't you already have a SNES and N64? They're really cheap if yours died. If you want to play these games I'm guessing you've been emulating them for years now? In which case you know how superior save states are. The Revolution could do that too, but so what?

Re:I am not excited

[OglinTatas]

Nice troll, but you have a valid point. Good work!

Re:I am not excited

[Gentlewhisper]

>>>I am intrigued by the thought of Kojima actually pulling off realistic urban guerilla
>>>warfare, but wonder if we have reached the stage where we can actually do that.

Why experience it merely in a video game?

This is so much better!

Re:I am not excited

[Blakey Rat]

Slashdot also mods you down if you point out how biased they are towards Nintendo in a comical fashion. Apparently.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm ... the $400 version includes the hard drive and hence can play XBox games - it also includes a wireless controller.

Come on - bitch about the fact that it costs $400 with all the goodies or bitch about the fact that the $300 version doesn't have all the goodies but it makes no sense to bitch about both in the same sentence that way.

What's your reference for the price of the games?

Re:I am not excited

[springbox]

Because there are still a lot of games that I haven't played for the older systems. I'm hoping that it will be cheaper to buy it for their new system than go hunting for the stuff to play it on the older systems.

Re:I am not excited

[Anonymous Coward]

They can also lose the controllers more effectively.

Re:I am not excited

[jimi the hippie]

"Revolution may not even be the name of the bloody thing?" Less than a year ago, we still didn't know the official name of the XBox 2. That doesn't mean that people weren't looking forward to it.

Re:I am not excited

[Deliveranc3]

Or
C) Fall and bash their little brains out...

Re:I am not excited

[aardvarkjoe]

As long as the prices are reasonable (say $8-10 or less for N64 games and $3 or 4 for SNES) it'll be a good service and will let people buy games that are FUN and CHEAP.

Right now, there's a fair number of old NES and SNES games being sold for the game boy and gamecube. It looks like they tend to start out with a retail of $30+, dropping to around $20 after they've been out for awhile. I rather doubt that they're going to drop prices that much (if at all) for these games on their new platform.

Re:I am not excited

[thelonestranger]

I bought an Xbox early on for £300 (plus £40 for Halo). I for one wont be buying the new one until at least 6 - 8 months down the line when the number of games availible reaches a decent level of choice so I'm not forced to buy substandard rubbish just so I've got something to play on it. Unitl then I'll satisfy my gaming needs by buying up all the Xbox games I never got round to playing second hand from EB where (silly)people will have sold their entire games collections (and their grandmothers) to fund their purchase of a 360 with one wireless controller and one game.

Re:I am not excited

[hondan53]

I have to agree... the release of the Xbox 360 seems like a deja vu of the Dreamcast release. Why did dreamcast fail against PS2? The primary reason, in my opinion is the lack of support for DVD. This situation is almost the exact same as the Dreamcast vs. PS2 situation, Sega did not adapt to the new technology while Sony did. However, what is different this time is that there is still an ongoing battle between HD-DVD and Blu-ray for the title of the next generation Digital Storage Media, but with Sony jumping on the band wagon for the next gen media and supporting games all the way back to the original PSX, I think it is really at Microsoft's disadvantage to launch the Xbox 360 with only DVD support and limited original Xbox game support. I guess only time will tell which system will emerge victorious.

Re:I am not excited

[mrgreen4242]

Well, for a SNES game you do have to actually port it to the GBA, which involves some work (tweaking and recompiling the code for the GBA - it can't emulate a SNES - redrawing the sprites for a slightly shorter display, reworking the controls for 2 less buttons), then you have the cost of the cart, the packaging, cost of getting it to the store, and the stores markup. Also, I'm PRETTY sure (not positive) that most of the older ported games (not all) started at $19.99.

The Rev. will certainly be powerful enough to just emulate the NES/SNES/N64, so there is no actual porting work to be done. The method of delivery is via a digital download, so almost no cost there, and there is no "middle-man" to take a cut, so I can easily see SNES games in the sub-$5 range, N64 games at sub-$10, and NES games as freebies, or at most $0.99.

Re:I am not excited

[chrnb]

Bet she is doing some wierd stuff when she is doing the nasty.

tell us more!!

stfu

[Adolf Hitroll]

n/t

Official MSRP?

[Tokerat]

Has Microsoft announced an official retail price at all or is it still speculation? I saw no mention of it in the press release.

Re:Official MSRP?

[Splork2]

Ah yes, the XBoX 360 will come if 36 different flavors ranging in cost from $36 bucks to a full $3600. This will be the test bed for the Windows Vesta launch. Microsoft if holding their fingers and hoping for a good lanuch. I'm not holding mine.

Re:Official MSRP?

[Andy_R]

Try reading the last paragraph...

Microsoft also announced Japanese pricing of Xbox 360... Xbox 360 system, ... 20GB detachable Xbox 360 Hard Drive [hype] an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller, an Xbox 360 Media Remote control, an Xbox 360 Headset, a Component HD-AV Cable ... an Ethernet cable and batteries, at 37,900 JPY.*

* Actual retail prices may vary.

At today's rates, that's $343.332 US or 190.090 GBP

Re:Official MSRP?

[Morgon]

US:

Xbox 360 "Core System" (no HDD, wired controller only) $299.99
Xbox 360 "Premium" (HDD, Wireless, headset, remote) $399.99

Japan:
Xbox360 Premium Edition, $349.99

So MS screwed the USA twice on this deal.. first by contridicting every single one of their interviews and announcements since before E3 ("one sku only", "wireless and hdd", "around $300"), but the ONE thing that the US wants (one sku for a decent price), they're giving to Japan.

The Xbox/MS Games team was the only part of MS that "got it"... now it seems like the business practices plaguing the rest of the company are slowly infecting the last bastion of customer appreciation.

Re:Official MSRP?

[Morgon]

I should clarify that the Japan pricing is an approximate US dollar conversion... not that it shouldn't be apparent by the dollar sign.

Re:Official MSRP?

[LiquidCoooled]

cost from $36 bucks to a full $3600 *

* Note, the $36 version is just an empty box with an I.O.U. note attached.

Re:Official MSRP?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's just another indication of the divide here in the USA; the rich are so much wealthier here that they will pay a $50 markup for a $5 headset, a $2 remote, and a $40 harddrive because they are just "finding" that money from illegal immigrants' pockets anyway. Hell the reason they don't charge $500 or $600 for the premium edition is not because they would lose sales but because they would lose PR from bad press about "gouging".

Japan, being more homogenous in every way, has one price since their worker class buys it from korea or taiwan or something.

Re:Official MSRP?

[jackbird]

the rich are so much wealthier here that they will pay a $50 markup for a $5 headset, a $2 remote, and a $40 harddrive

Those bastards, charging $3 extra. How dare they?

Re:Official MSRP?

[Cyn]

$53, was his point. Although there's no price comparison for wireless vs wired controllers - wireless is generally $10 extra over wired.

So, $43 - assuming wireless is a feature for you. Also assuming you actually believe the prices cited.

Markup is around $25 imo, still probably not worth - get it all aftermarket as you need it (unless they cripple parts of it)

Re:Official MSRP?

[tepples]

get it all aftermarket as you need it (unless they cripple parts of it)

Microsoft did cripple it. I've read that Xbox 360 will be the first console to use encrypted controllers.

Re:Official MSRP?

[hobbesx]

... from $36 bucks to a full $3600 ... will be the test bed for the Windows Vesta launch.

Vesta? Those freakin' bastards! Sure, the buy in will be $36.00, but then they'll charge $283.00 for the sleeves, and then what will I do when winter comes?

<Insert Sony product fleecing joke here>

Re:Official MSRP?

[RoLi]

The worse you treat Microsoft the better they will treat you. (and vice versa)

For example, assume manager A and manager B.

Manager A sais: "Your products suck and we want to switch to Linux"
Manager B sais: "Windows is such a fine great product"

Who will get the better price?

Essentially Japan is getting better prices because in Japan XBox1 made Microsoft even more losses than everywhere else.

Re:Official MSRP?

[Morgon]

Markup's gonna be quite a bit more than that.
Take the HDD for example, in which a -public- cost for the 20GB 2.5" SATA drive (which is what they're using) is $67 at Newegg.

Multiply that by MS' buying power to not need retail, coupled with the sheer number of units they'd initially buy (2 million, I believe is their initial rollout), and you've got something that could be sold for $50 with a decent amount of profit.

What will they be selling it for? $100. (Yes, this is an official price that can also be located on xbox.com)

Re:Official MSRP?

[The Lynxpro]

"The Xbox/MS Games team was the only part of MS that "got it"... now it seems like the business practices plaguing the rest of the company are slowly infecting the last bastion of customer appreciation."

Well, in all fairness, the Macintosh Business Unit and the Hardware division are also worthy parts of Microsoft that do not deserve the scorn the rest of that company deserves. I like my Xbox, and I wouldn't mind an Xbox360, but I think the PS3 will crush it.

Just as the Sony PSP is the Atari Lynx of 2005, the Xbox360 is the Sega Dreamcast of 2005.

Re:Official MSRP?

[Splork2]

"* Note, the $36 version is just an empty box with an I.O.U. note attached."

You were very generous. I was thinking the $36.00 variety would simply be a brown paper bag with the words "SUKA" written inside. "SUCKER" being shorten'd to "SUKA" for cost saving purposes.

Re:Official MSRP?

[dtfarmer]

Essentially Japan is getting better prices because in Japan XBox1 made Microsoft even more losses than everywhere else

You're joking, right? Installed base in Japan in June 2005 was 484k, with current sales of ~250/week.

Let's just call it 500k, and we'll assume they lost $150 on every single one of those sales, and that they never recouped any profits from sales of games, accessories, etc. So they lost $75m on just the console. Again assume no profit at all on anything else, so lets just double that $75m to cover any other losses that aren't covered in the costs attributed to the console - hell triple it even.

Now they had that one quarter last year where they made $83 million during christmas, with the lauch of Halo 2. Other than that they've been losing money hand over fist every quarter - iirc, the total lost is currently over $2b, $2.4b I think including the $83m profit, but let's just call it $2b.

So, $2b lost with an estimate of $225m of that attributable to Japan, that's 11%. (and a *very* high estimate)

Go ahead, do the math any way you want. Japan won't be the biggest money losing territory no matter how you stack it, they just didn't sell enough there for it to have generated "more losses than everywhere else." The only way you might be able to spin it even close is that they *may* have lost more per console sold in Japan.

They are dumping it cheaper there, because if they repeat the xbox performance in Japan, the exact same outcome is in the cards. No Japanese market, means Japanese developer support will dry up just as fast as with round 1, and that means a serious dearth of titles that will affect the US and European markets. If the original xbox had been more successful in Japan, it would have had a more rounded selection of games - especially games that appeal to Japanese gamers - and as a likely consequence more *exclusive* games, which would help sell the system in all markets.

It's all about the games... always has been, always will be. This is exactly why Nintendo finally lost second place to microsoft. They lost so much developer mindshare and support in all territories that they couldn't contend for first place. MS only lost support in Japan - give it back that support (which requires solid userbase) and it could have contended. It is a testament to the quality of Nintendo's first and second party game development that they are only a slim margin behind microsoft in the race for #2. I still can't believe how well the Rare deal worked out for Nintendo. I mean I still can't believe the company that was so prolific at turning out solid blockbusters has in 3-4 years only provided MS with the mediocre "Grabbed by the Ghoulies" and a port of "Conker's BFD." Maybe they will redeem theselves with PDZero and Kameo on the 360, but for the Xbox they've been a complete and total bust.

Re:Official MSRP?

[RoLi]

As far as losses go, there are huge sums of money spent on marketing IIRC Microsoft said they spent 500 million at the XBox launch on marketing alone - of course I don't know how much of that went to Japan.

But you are correct, I've used a completely wrong phrase: Japan got the best price because XBox1 was such a huge dissapointment there, which I think nobody can deny - even Microsoft.

Re:Official MSRP?

[dabraun]

Accessories have always been profit centers for game consoles. Consider the absurd price per mb charged (on all platforms) for memory / save game cards.

OHCUB! I CAN'T WAIT....

[Rahga]

Oh Holy Cow Un Believable!!!!!

I can't wait to buy this thing!

In 2009... When the price has dropped to $150 and the games have been separated to wheat and chaff in the bargain bins.

Re:OHCUB! I CAN'T WAIT....

[buhatkj]

OMGWTFBBQXBOX!!!!!1ones11!!1

Re:OHCUB! I CAN'T WAIT....

[jidar]

Wait.. you can't wait to buy it, so you're gonna wait. Wait.. what?

haha japan!!!

[buhatkj]

haha!!! japan gets it last for once!!!!!

i always hated that how with most other consoles and games they were released in japan first, made me jealous!!

now THEY have to wait HAHAHAHA!!!!

more seriously, we know these huge publishers can do a simultaneous worldwide release, why don't they?? wouldn't that discourage a little bit of piracy by people who want to get things early?? i'd think they'd be all about that....

Re:haha japan!!!

[kaos.geo]

Obviously you don't understand...
It's MICROSOFT.
If it were a Japanese company you would never get it first outside Japan.
And BTW , it probably exists in Japan a prototype console that has 10 times more power than all existing ones, interfaces directly and wirelessly with your brain, and possibly runs on whale oil fuel cells.
It's a Sony.

Re:haha japan!!!

[Red Flayer]

"more seriously, we know these huge publishers can do a simultaneous worldwide release, why don't they?? wouldn't that discourage a little bit of piracy by people who want to get things early?? i'd think they'd be all about that.... "

Well, in this case:

(1) They'd have to delay the release in the US, and possibly Europe. Producing the machines takes time and production capacity, which is not cheap. You don't want machines sitting in inventory if you can help it.

(2) They want to make sure they time the release with a major consumer purchase period. In the US, Thanksgiving weekend is the biggest retail sales weekend of the year. Not so in Europe or Japan.

(3) Multiple releases creates a psychological effect that encourages 'late' adopters to buy. More press. More games. "Holy crap, if people in Europe can buy it, should I have one by now?" By 'late', in this case, I mean the people who don't buy it at release -- not people like me, who will be buying in 2008.

Re:haha japan!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

If it were a Japanese company you would never get it first outside Japan.
The Nintendo DS came out first in the US.

Re:haha japan!!!

[patmfitz]

Multiple releases creates a psychological effect that encourages 'late' adopters to buy. More press. More games. "Holy crap, if people in Europe can buy it, should I have one by now?"

Are you just pulling this out of your ass, or is this an observed effect? (Seeing that this is slashdot I'm going with "pulled out of your ass")

Re:haha japan!!!

[Quiet_Desperation]

"Holy crap, if people in Europe can buy it, should I have one by now?"

I can definitely say I have never had that thought.

Re:haha japan!!!

[Red Flayer]

The quote is obviously pulled out of my ass, but more press definitely leads to higher sales. I don't have the link handy or the time to search for it, but check out the sales figures in Japan for the PS2. There are spikes in Japanese sales when the US and European versions came out, although possibly they are due to distribution surges in Japan (like if units were'nt being shipped before the US & Europe releases).

Re:haha japan!!!

[qbwiz]

(3) Multiple releases creates a psychological effect that encourages 'late' adopters to buy. More press. More games. "Holy crap, if people in Europe can buy it, should I have one by now?" By 'late', in this case, I mean the people who don't buy it at release -- not people like me, who will be buying in 2008.

Yes, if those stone-aged Europeans, with their silly wooden shoes and yodeling, have it and I don't, how sad is that? They barely have electricity and yet they have the Xbox 360? My God, I must be behind the times.

(j/k)

A new age for PPC

[Saven Marek]

What I am excited about is not that this is a new console, but that it is a new age for the PPC chip. And just when Apple has dropped it. Some technologies have all the luck?

While apple might not have the chance to use the version of the G5 with three cores and 3.2GHz or faster speeds I wonder if the price drop on those with microsoft buying millions and millions will cause IBM to build normal motherboards with PPC power. A 3.2GHz G5 motherboard built by IBM and guaranteed by them to work with linux by IBM writing the kernel modules for them would be a really great solution for a desktop if you want to get away from x86!.

again what a pity steve didn't wait to hear about this one. I bet the top G5 powermac will still be 2.7GHz when the xbox comes out at 3.2ghz and with one extra core and better graphics. and be cheaper. Apple could have benefited from that cost drop due to microsoft. Thats a pity

Re:A new age for PPC

[Anonymous Coward]

The chips in the Xbox 360 are not multi-cored. It actually uses 3 physical chips.

And again, I can't stress it enough, this is not anywhere near the same chip as a G5.

Re:A new age for PPC

[allanc]

That might be true if the XBox360's CPU and the Cell in the PS3 were the same sort of chips that you'd want to have in a PowerMac. They're not. They're extremely specialized for their respective tasks.

One of the theories as to why IBM wasn't going to be able to supply Apple enough for them to stay with the PowerPC was because they would be using so much of their capacity churning out CPUs for Microsoft and Sony. And also, keep in mind that the XBox and PS3 CPUs are going to stick at a constant speed for their lifetimes, whereas Apple would quite like steady speed boosts.

So, to sum up, the fact that the PS3 and XBox 360 are using PPC-derivative processors is actually more of an argument for Apple to ditch the PPC than for them to stick with it.

Re:A new age for PPC

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be.

The XBox 360's processor core is more like the old G3, with no out-of-order execution, poor branch prediction but a G5 VMX (altivec) unit (not as good as the G4's - motorola's -, unfortunately) tacked on and 2 hardware threads (which should help with mispredictions and cache misses). Times 3. With 1 MB of cache.

A G5 it is not. And forget about 64 bits, why on earth would you want that on a console with less than 4 gigs of RAM? mmap the DVD? Not worth the space and heat cost. Especially when GHz are a merketing requirement.

It's a very impressive number cruncher, so very good for games, but you wouldn't want it to replace your general purpose computer. And Apple knows this.

Too Much!

[drScott2]

They're asking too much money for all of these things. It's entertainment, not medication.

You'll catch me holding out for the $59.99 used Revolution in 3 years.

Re:Too Much!

[Alapapa]

Look at the specs. I'd say the price is very reasonable for a system with those parts (even if it is closed and proprietary).

Re:Too Much!

[CDLewis]

You'll catch me holding out for the $59.99 used Revolution in 3 years.

But by then, everyone else will have been playing 15-year-old NES games on their Revolution for 3 years. Aren't you afraid of spoilers?

Re:Too Much!

[drScott2]

Thats not the point I was trying to make. What I mean is these things aren't worth $1. At least, not to me.

Re:Too Much!

[joss]

> It's entertainment, not medication.

Don't tell the judge

Re:Too Much!

[VATechTigger]

It's entertainment, not medication.

Man your way off. I will be buying this thing strikly for this reason http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9247/Resident-Evil-5 -Screenshots/

I dont think I will be needing any lithium for a while with the happiness this will generate.

Re:Too Much!

[amliebsch]

So, what do you want? A cookie?

Re:Too Much!

[jbarket]

Then your point is that you're not their target audience, making your opinion more than a little irrelevant.

Thanks for admitting that you're a troll.

Re:Too Much!

[coolGuyZak]

They're asking too much money for all of these things. It's entertainment, not medication.

Are you kidding? Medication is entertainment...

Re:Too Much!

[archen]

Not really. When you adjust for inflation we've been spending about as much on these 'entertainment systems' and in previous generations they hardly had any of the capabilities (play dvds, cds). Not only that, but when you think of paying $645 (1977 -> $199) to move a bunch of blocks around for an atari 2600 this doesn't look all that bad.

Re:Too Much!

[the phantom]

Heh... I finally got a PS2 last month. Two controllers, two first party memory cards, a pack of games -- all for less than $150. Of course, I didn't get a PSX until well after the PS2 came out, and I didn't get a Genesis until the Saturn, 3D0, and Playstation were out. So, I tend to lag behind a bit... :)

Re:Too Much!

[gallondr00nk]

Yes, the price of it is inflated, the price of the games and peripherals are inflated. It's not worth the money. However, you are totally forgetting the social aspect to entertainment consumerist tendencies. As much as people will buy a new car to impress the neighbours, people will buy an Xbox 360 to impress their friends. It could run on a 486sx and people would still buy it, simply because it's the hot new thing. Give it about 6-12 months (and a $50 discount) and people will actually be making informed choices. Remember furbies? Without social conformity, no-one would have bought them. Who the hell would decide they *wanted* one without outside influences?

Re:Too Much!

[KillShill]

actually no opinion is irrelevant, maybe just to you but not in the grand scheme of things.

calling people trolls just because you disagree or don't like the person is an all too common mistake commited online.

Re:Too Much!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm... that article has already been proven false. Those screenshots are from the trailer from a few months back. They are a 'target render' and were not running on any xbox 360/ps3 hardware. In other words, it's a 'Killzone'

Geek Card Revoked!

[xtermin8]

Okay, you've never had a console, but admit to playing Dance, Dance Revolution? I suspect your either a girl or gay. And I don't say that demeaningly. Its just I can't imagine a red-blooded male American (including Canadians) who would play it, except maybe in secret, and definitely true geeks don't have the coordination for it. Geezus what is Slashdot coming to?!?!

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Masami Eiri]

Just because you play it doesn't mean you're good at it. I've been known to pop a few quarters in the machines at arcades from time to time, and I have stepmania (no pad though.. need to get one). I suck at it though.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[dividedsky319]

Okay, you've never had a console, but admit to playing Dance, Dance Revolution? I suspect your either a girl or gay.

This is the problem with gamers today. If it doesn't involve killing or violence, it's not worth their time. What ever happened the concept of "gameplay"? It's been overshadowed by graphics and "mature content".

I've personally never played DDR, but I wouldn't mind eventually picking up a copy of one of them and a dance pad. I imagine it would be a lot of fun to get together a few friends, have a few drinks, and see how badly we can "dance".

Oh, and I'm a 23 year old straight (engaged, actually) male.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Reapy]

Along these lines, I picked up ddr for myself and my wife to play. I actually got much better at the game then she did due to previous video game experience.

The game has nothing to do with dancing and everything to do with rythem and timing. It's like tapping out a 10 hit combo in tekken with your feet if you want to think of it.

Anyway, I love the game. It is different then what is out there, and any new experience is a fun experience. Since I've started playing my "dancing" at weddings and such has improved tremendously to the point where people complament me (rythem and timing goes a long way when dancing).

I know it is odd for the grandparent to hear, but practicing something actually makes you get better at it. I don't know why people think if you are "geeky" you aren't capable of learning something. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.

Anyway, to the parent, grab DDR and a good pad, it is a ton of fun. This is from a long time "hardcore" gamer whos been bored with the lack of new gaming generas to explore the past few years.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[sammy baby]

That's because you're an idiot.

Go hang around a boardwalk arcade sometime. You'll see plenty of kids playing DDR. Plenty of them are guys, and from a statistical perspective I have trouble believing that they're all gay.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[m4dm4n]

I believe the GP said "red-blooded male American".

That cliché always seems to be used when denigrating people who don't like violence.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[xutopia]

The same with wine 10 years ago. You'd tell someone you liked wine in some parts of North America and there was a good chance they'd think or say you were gay. Now drinking wine is considered normal. In some places people still think you are gay if you dress well or use gel in your hair instead of screwing a baseball cap on uncombed hear.

Wether someone plays DDR or not isn't a good means of determining their sexuality. Let that guy drink beer and put a baseball cap screwed on his head. We can have fun playing DDR, using gel in our hair and drinking wine. PS: my wife plays video games where she kills "people" and insofar I'm pretty sure she's straight.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[NitroWolf]

Okay, you've never had a console, but admit to playing Dance, Dance Revolution? I suspect your either a girl or gay. And I don't say that demeaningly. Its just I can't imagine a red-blooded male American (including Canadians) who would play it, except maybe in secret, and definitely true geeks don't have the coordination for it. Geezus what is Slashdot coming to?!?!

What world have you been living in? DDR is actually quite fun... I'm a 30 something male and straight. So that shoots your theory to shit.

DDR is decent exercise, and it's a fairly hard game. I've never played it in the arcade because I don't want to look like an idiot in front of people, so I opted for the home version both on the Xbox and the PC (Stepmania) and ended up buying some Red Octane Afterburner pads (wish I had went with Cobalt Flux in retrospect).

If you fancy yourself good at video games, I suggest you give DDR a try and see how much you truely suck at coordination. I can whip your ass up one side and down the other at any fighter you care to mention, but a 12 year old girl can kick my ass at DDR playing backwards and blindfolded. I will admit, though, that DDR is a lot about patterns and memorization... kinda like Mortal Combat.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Sirfrummel]

DDR is actually pretty fun if you give it a try. I've been playing for about a year, and I'd have to say it's my #1 all-time favorite game. (My #2 being Nethack, and #3 being Neverwinter Nights, just to let you know where I'm coming from in a gamer's standpoint). I actually owe quite a lot to DDR. It's what basically got me started on eating healthy, working out, and taking good care of myself. I'm probably not as geeky as I used to be, but there is an element of geeky-ness to DDR as well. When your plaing MAX 300 on HEAVY, and arrows are flying by so fast, a *normal* person wouldn't be able to see a thing, and wouldn't have a clue as to what's going on. In a way, it's almost like watching a program compile in linux... kindof. -- blog: sirfrummel.com

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Anonymous Coward]

"xtermin8"? Your geek card probably has your D&D stats written on it, yes?

DDR can't hold a candle to Samba de Amigo, but it is fun. Enjoy those late night masterbation sessions, buddy. I hump chicks exclusively and I am manly enough to have a good time without worrying about pretenses or presentation.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Anonymous Coward]

Admit it, you play DDR like a Riverdancer. No straight white male can do otherwise.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Is0m0rph]

Samba will never be topped for a fun party game! If Sega announced it would be doing a new Samba for only one of the next gen consoles that is the console I would buy. I still have 2 Dreamcasts and 2 sets of maraccas to whip out at party.

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[rowanwise]

My 15 year old daughter and her friends hang out at the local arcade and play DDR. Funny... I always thought it should be called SSR ( Stomp, Stomp, Revolution).

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[billster0808]

I've set up samba shares before, and it wasn't that fun. I don't think it would be to fun at parties, though I could be wrong...

Re:Geek Card Revoked!

[Is0m0rph]

Setting up a Samba share is easy, getting the share to work right with a maracca controller is the hard part heh.

games at release

[Red Flayer]

"Tokyo Game Show marks the first time that consumers will be able to experience the power of Xbox 360 firsthand. A number of key titles will be on display at the Xbox 360 booth: "

The press release goes on to list a bunch of games. Curiously, there is no mention of which of the games will be available at release... only that the titles 'will be on display'.

Re:games at release

[Hast]

There is a launch title list at the main site.

Just look for it - or perhaps, use Google.

Re:games at release

[Red Flayer]

Thanks, but I just thought it odd that the press release didn't say...

Holy Shit! Great news!

[Uukrul]

If it's from Microsoft it has to be good!

gah

[hector_uk]

the cpu in the xbox is not a G5, it's completely difference the only similarity ends at 64-bit and ppc it's out of order and rather different in allot of other ways, personally i'm going to get an xbox 360 either when they have a price drop or halo 3 comes out (i dont think it's particularly expensive i'm just cheap and launch titles dont look too good)

Re:gah

[Anonymous Coward]

the cpu in the xbox is not a G5, it's completely difference the only similarity ends at 64-bit and ppc it's out of order and rather different in allot of other ways, personally i'm going to get an xbox 360 either when they have a price drop or halo 3 comes out (i dont think it's particularly expensive i'm just cheap and launch titles dont look too good)

You seem to be lacking something...

Re:gah

[Anonymous Coward]

G5's feature out-of-order execution too. That's been around for quite some time. In fact, even the G3 chips had it to a lesser degree. I could go even further and say that some IBM machines from the 1960's had it too.

The main architectural difference with the Xbox 360 cpu is that it is a multi-core chip, and can run up to six threads of execution simultaneously, whereas the G5 was limited to a single thread.

Whether that means it's 6 times faster at the same clock rate is up for debate, mainly because it requires extensive software changes to make use of all six threads.

Re:gah

[lowe0]

To clarify, the difference between the SPE/Xenon and the PPC970 is that the Xenon is in-order, not out-of-order. Thus, clean code and a good compiler are going to be critical - no OoOE to hide sloppy code.

Still, I'm looking forward to getting mine. I bet the developers will find good uses for all that power, and will learn to bring it out - just not at first.

Re:gah

[KillShill]

that's what the cell is.

an in-order ppc970 with 8 vector units bolted on.

never mind that the ppc970 comes with 1 altivec unit per core and the 360 has 3 cores...

the spe's are not ppc processors.

Re:gah

[lowe0]

I think I screwed up and used SPE as a reference to the main core on the Cell. Whoops; thanks for catching it. This is why I should not post to /. on Vicodin. I go to point out the in-order mistake, and make one of my own.

You're right, though, the SPEs are not PPC - they've got a different instruction set.

Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, welcome our new Xbox360 overlords.

European Marketshare

[affinity]

Europe getting the xbox before Japan, probably is an attempt to get more europeans to purchase the xbox, since Europe is the 3rd largest region as far as game console sales. Europe could also be seen as having more potential to win over new consumers.

Just my reasoning after briefly scanning thru the article.

Re:European Marketshare

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Europe is the second largest games-buying region, not the third. European console sales tend to be almost twice their Japanese equivalents. Unless Japan can turn its economy around, there's a good chance it could become an increasing irrelevance as a sales market (although there's no denying the level of creative output it produces in terms of games).

Re:Another "new age" for PPC

[xtermin8]

IBM already puts it in their servers, and offers PPC linux for it. PPC also has a huge embedded market. I would say this marks an end for PPC desktops. Laptops are the fastest growing market and IBM has already sold their laptop division. What motivation is there for desktop PPC? None. If you want to hack around with Consoles and PPC devices, you're in luck- and now you can emulate ppc on Intel, too!

PSP was just released in Europe.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony released the PSP in Europe just recently. That's bound to put a dent in gamers' disposable incomes. I suspect that will affect Xbox sales adversely at first.

Bah 11/22/05???

[Nodar]

what kind of release date is that? everything after 9/9/99 is irrelevant.

Re:Bah 11/22/05???

[Anonymous Coward]

They could always delay it until June 6th, 2006. Call it "The Number of the Console".

Re:Bah 11/22/05???

[PKFC]

Japan's Xbox launch of 2/22/2002 wasn't too bad :P

Re:Bah 11/22/05???

[ValuJet]

actually 11/22/05 is almost 10x greater.

9/9 = 1
1/99 = .010101

11/22 = .5
.5/5 = .1

.1 > .010101

So in essence this release is 10x greater than a 9/9/99 release.

Re:Bah 11/22/05???

[Nodar]

wasn't too bad, no, but not as great as the DC release... Now, if they would have waited 200 years, THAT would have been a masterpiece release.

Re:Bah 11/22/05???

[Anonymous Coward]

That's when Final Fantasy 8 was released! Excellent game! Too bad it wasn't FF9 on 9/9/99.

Japan + Xbox = no love

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but Japan DOESN'T WANT IT. So, uh... no cause for celebration. I'm sure there are a few jap fanbois who get their rocks off on DOA4, but there are only a zillion other games out there featuring girls with big tits kicking ass.

Is it going to be delayed?

[sveskemus]

Will the release of this thing be delayed just like with the PSP?

Who can offer an educated guess?

Re:Is it going to be delayed?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am edumacated and my guess is, no.

What kind of idiotic question was that to ask?

Re:Is it going to be delayed?

[sveskemus]

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. And that was one.

RC5-72

[jolar]

I'll buy one if it can crunch distributed.net's RC5-72 project as fast as I think it will.

Or maybe the PS3 will be faster and easier to use as a regular computer. I will wait and see.

Preorders?

[DanthemaninVA1]

Too bad the only preorders you can get for it online are for $600 and up bundles. Anybody know where you can preorder the vanilla $400 bundle?

Re:Preorders?

[Anonymous Coward]

I preordered from EBgames. They had a limited number, and only sold the premium package. I got the last one in my area, and that was 3 weeks ago.

Re:Preorders?

[Anonymous Coward]

I preorder the $400 system alone at Gamecrazy, the video game store inside of Hollywood Video.

Re:Preorders?

[Penty]

If you pre-order at the stores, eb and gamestop, they will sell you the regualr packages. It is only at the online stores that forcethe big packages.

The Dreamcast 360 Will Be Legend

[Anonymous Coward]

There never has been a bigger fiasco in the console market. Ever.

The number of stupid, inane, bizzare things Microsoft has done are beyond belief. The botched 360 project is a once in a lifetime event people will be talking about for years to come.

Technology.
Pricing.
Developer Support.
Marketing.

You name it, Microsoft has found some way to screw each of those things up with the 360. It is almost like Microsoft is trying to fail. Like they want out of the console market as fast as possible.

The 360 launch fiasco reminds me of that famous Milhous quote from the Simpsons:

"Not only am I not learning, I'm forgetting stuff I used to know."

Microsoft is not only not reaching out beyond the existing xbox fanbase, they seem to be actively discouraging existing xbox owners from wanting to have anything to do with the 360.

COCKSLAP!

[Anonymous Coward]

thunk.

Heh

[BlackCobra43]

I think the game will crash abruptly before anyone can find out the available playing modes :)

Guess I know what I'll be getting for my birthday

[Anonymous Coward]

Birthday on 2nd December
+
XBox 360 released here
+
Wife with no idea what to get me
=
New games console for me

Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[blankoboy]

Sure the XB360 has all sorts of cool new bells and whistles. They have also juiced up the Live experience. My real question and concern is, will there be an official keyboard and mouse for the XB360 with in-game support? If the answer is no, sadly I will not be purchasing this. I am a FPS gamer first and foremost and the reason my original Xbox sits there doing nothing is because I will not play a FSP with a freaking gamepad! Playing FPS with gamepage = Having sex with a beautiful woman while wearing a baseball glove on your p3nis. Just not going to work.

Re:Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[dewke]

From what I've read/heard you can use a KB/mouse in everythign except games, which ruins the console for me.

I love the simplicity of live, and the gamepad controllers are great for some games (madden etc...) but for a FPS it's an exercise in frustration. Ghost Recon on xbox live would have been amazing if I could have used a kb/mouse.

Re:Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[elrous0]

I love the simplicity of live, and the gamepad controllers are great for some games (madden etc...) but for a FPS it's an exercise in frustration.

You know, I'm told that they make a machine very much like the Xbox. It runs a lot of great first person shooters and doesn't use a gamepad at all. They call this machine the "PC."

If the Xbox were to adopt the scheme you suggest, it too would become another such "PC" and would thus cease to be what's called a "console."

-Eric

Re:Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[nb caffeine]

Seconded. My answer is that I don't play fpses on the xbox (yet i keep buying them... odd), but there are a great number of non-fps games for the xbox.
There is one exception: my PC wasn't good enough to play hl2 (well, maybe it was, on lowest settings), but i decided to wait till the xbox. Ill play that one, but im not drooooling waiting for it. All my friends loved it, so ill give it a spin. Ive tried deus EX:IW, serious sam, both halos, and a few others, but put them all down after just a few hours because "hey, this level would be cake with a kybd/mouse, the controller sucks"

only exception was jedi academy, which i finished, but really would have benefited from some kybd/mouse action.

Re:Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[Fred Or Alive]

I'd hope they'd be flexible enough to let developers use keyboards and mice in games where appropriate (Dreamcast and PS2 already did AFAIK). But Microsoft might still be hung up with this "it's not a computer!" thing they had with the first Xbox.

But I'd hope any sensbile developer keeps K+M and joypad players seperate for online play though, at least in any kind of ranked situation. Keyboard + Mouse does allow for faster, more accurate reactions (with the downside of being tied to a desk, and therefore rather cumbersome for split screen games with mates on a sofa etc.), so any keyboard players would be at a rather big advantage to joypad players (of course for unranked / custom games anything goes).

The general joypad is sometimes a bit of a "jack of all trades, master of none", but the fact is it's the only controller you can garuntee console players will have, and it would be wrong to put people in a situation where buying an extra contoller put people at a massive advantage.

Re:Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[Rancidlunchmeat]

So let me get this straight.. you don't like FPS on consoles because they are too difficult compared to FPS using mouse + keyboard combination on the PC? Isn't the common argument the exact opposite? That controllers take away 'the skill' that is required normally of FPS through the mouse/keyboard combination? I'll admit, it was a seriously tough transition going from mouse/keyboard to controller. Trying to battle my neighbors in Halo, I kept getting killed... yet I was fairly decent at playing UT and other such games online. Guess what? It just takes time to adapt. And certainly you wouldn't want the option of having one set of users working with a mouse/keyboard playing against those using a controller. Learn how to use the controller, learn how the lack of accuracy effects the game, and work from there. You can get quite good at FPS using a controller, it just takes time to get used to. Even more time if you are "unlearning" the mouse/keyboard combo. "What do you mean invert the controls?" LOL

Re:Keyboard + Mouse for FPS games?

[nb caffeine]

im not bad, per se, i just prefer kybd/mouse. i dont know what it is. I keep buying the games, so i like something about them, i guess :)

THE JAPANESE CELEBRATE XMAS WITH A CAKE

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:THE JAPANESE CELEBRATE XMAS WITH A CAKE

[ghukov]

I assume it is for the same reason (corporate greed)

Wake me when....

[CSG_SurferDude]

Somebody wake me when Halo-3 ships... That's when I'll think about getting one.

Re:Wake me when....

[LJWhorfin]

the reason i bought my current xbox was to play halo.. and again will be the reason i'd ever by an xbox 360 -- to play halo 3.. i thought halo 3 was to come out in sync with the xbox 360 release originally.. no? any word on a halo 3 release date?

Re:Wake me when....

[cybrthng]

halo3 comes out when ps3 ships..

the "trump" card if you ask me :)

I'm skipping XBox 360

[Capeman]

I'm going to wait for the PS3, it has better specs, a HUGE game library (PS1, PS2) and it's from Sony, not Microsoft.

Re:I'm skipping XBox 360

[F_Scentura]

What a coincidence, the rest of us are skipping over fanboy posts such as these. If the Xbox 360 interests us, it is not necessarily at the exclusion of the PS3.

The PS2 and PS1 comments don't mean a thing, as most of us *already own the PS2*.

As much as Microsoft has a lesser image, the "it's from Sony" isn't as much of a draw as you seem to assume.

Re:I'm skipping XBox 360

[KillShill]

ironic isn't it.

sony = RIAA and MPAA member.

the lesser of two evils... but i cannot decide which one is which.

Pretty Good Timing

[blueZhift]

Coming out on Nov 22 is actually pretty good timing. The weekend after Thanksgiving is generally one of the biggest shopping days in the U.S.. So with smart marketing, they should move a fair number of Xbox 360s just on the wave of shopping. The two questions I would have are, what new games will be available, and what current popular Xbox titles will run on it?

If they do well enough, Xbox 360 will be considered the hot item of the holiday season and sell even better. As always though, the games will tell the tale.

Re:Pretty Good Timing

[Anonymous Coward]

"Coming out on Nov 22 is actually pretty good timing"

"considered the hot item of the holiday season and sell even better"

"So with smart marketing, they should move a fair number of Xbox 360s just on the wave of shopping."

What the fuck is it about console news stories that compels people like you to proves themselves the biggest idiot.

Re:Pretty Good Timing

[nb caffeine]

the only problem I see is that most people wont "Get" them till christmas. If your parents buy you one, you gotta wait till xmas, and then games after that. But i suppose microsoft aleady has your money by then

Re:Pretty Good Timing

[Anonymous Coward]

Relevance(item) = 0.0
Conclusion(item) = IGNORE

wait for PS3 worth it

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather wait another 6-9 months and get the PS3. You get ALOT more for the money.

Re:wait for PS3 worth it

[Anonymous Coward]

ha, that's funny

idiot

Re:wait for PS3 worth it

[lowe0]

Such as?

Less confusion for Japanese gamers?

[Dembonez]

According to xbox.com:

"Japanese gamers looking for the ultimate digital entertainment thrill ride and best value right out of the box may purchase an Xbox 360 system, which comes fully loaded with a 20GB detachable Xbox 360 Hard Drive for storing music, video and games, an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller, an Xbox 360 Media Remote control, an Xbox 360 Headset, a Component HD-AV Cable for connecting to component and composite television inputs, an Ethernet cable, and batteries, at 37,900 JPY."

No mention there of a 'core' system for Japan at all. Seeing as how the gaming market over there is considerably more mature/savvy, I guess MS didn't see the need to try to bring in the low-dollar/n00b customer into the fold.

I'd be surprised if MS keeps both units active here for long. I mean, once the first price drop hits, the non-crippled system would be affordable for all. The more of those systems that are out there, the better use of that installed base game publishers can make.

MS' 360 philosophy: Step 1 - collect underpants, (in high-def wherever possible Step 2 - ??????? Step 3 - Profit!

Re:Less confusion for Japanese gamers?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'd be surprised if MS keeps both units active here for long. I mean, once the first price drop hits, the non-crippled system would be affordable for all. The more of those systems that are out there, the better use of that installed base game publishers can make."

Time to wake up from you retarded xbox fantasy land dream.

There is nothing MS wants more than to be rid of the expensive fixed cost harddrive in the 360.

Re:Less confusion for Japanese gamers?

[phxbadash]

Yeah cause thier whole xbox live strategy with the marketplace and downloadable add-ons would totally work without the hard-drive. Moron.

Australia?

[cailyoung]

So, when do we get it? Anyone? Bueller?

Sigh.

Re:Australia?

[Fred Or Alive]

Dunno, if you're lucky it'll be December 2nd, in the traditional "Australia and New Zealand are part of Europe" thing. Otherwise, I don't know.

Re:Australia?

[PlagueHO]

I've read (not an official statement from M$) that Oz/NZ won't be getting it till between Jan-Mar 06. I guess I know what won't be in my christmas stocking this year.

Re:Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

Joystiq informs the Xbox 360 will launch sometime during the 2006 calendar year for all the patient gamers in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, and Colombia.

Hey, theres some good news, at least it won't be over 14 months delayed

Re:Australia?

[si618]

I heard March.

Personally i'm waiting a while, probably until PS3 is released.

I'm sold on the XBMC, such a cool tool, and I seriously doubt the MS version will be as flexible in its capabilities, and taking that out of my loungeroom is not an option unless it can be replaced by something better.

Jeff Minter's Neon is a plus for the 360, and it will be interesting to see how long it takes to hack :)

But will I actually be able to buy it for that?

[tgibbs]

US: Xbox 360 "Core System" (no HDD, wired controller only) $299.99 Xbox 360 "Premium" (HDD, Wireless, headset, remote) $399.99

Or will every dealer be requiring that I buy it as part of an expensive "bundle" with half a dozen games (only two of which I actually want)?

Re:But will I actually be able to buy it for that?

[AvitarX]

I bet most dealers will give you a choice of buying it or not.

Actually I can't imagine there is a single dealer in the country that will require you to buy and Xbox360.

Simultaneous release?

[ribblem]

To a first order approximation this seems like a simultaneous release to me. When comparing this to how long Nintendo and Sony consoles and handhelds usually take to get released around the world this seems to be pretty quick to me. Waiting 3 weeks is much better than waiting 9 months. I'm curious if this will force Nintendo and Sony to try and release their next gen consoles in a more timely manner.

Halo 3 ships the day the PS3 comes out..

[cybrthng]

Simple as that. Microsoft is holding Halo3 to ship the day the PS3 is shipped.

Good plan if you ask me :)

MS has some kind of problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

My game-crazy teenage sons aren't going to be queuing outside the store at launch - even they are saying wait for the price drop and/or halo3

Uh, how is this different?

[Inoshiro]

"They're not going to like it and the 360 is going to suffer from a draught of good Japanese games,"

Change 360 to Xbox and "going to" to "currently" as in:
"They're not going to like it, and the Xbox is currently suffering from a draught of good Japanese games,"

Yea, that's right, no major change!

Attempt at humor

[xtermin8]

Flamebait? Wow, I was going for Funny guys! Challenging someones masculinity is a long, if not honorable, tradition! Fortunately I am justified by the fact that Anyone feels the need to get defensive. It goes to show there's a little discomfort about how foolish one seems, dancing in a strange environment. Tongue was firmly in cheek!

Re:Attempt at humor

[Anonymous Coward]

This response, whether true or not, to himself is not flamebait. One punishment mod on the parent is sufficient. Two is silly.

Re:Attempt at humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Those gays have no sense of humor

Re:Attempt at humor

[Anonymous Coward]

Those gays have no sense of humor

PWNED!!!!@

Who is going to buy it and why?

[DrXym]

The mentality of owning something first when its overhyped, unproven, expensive and has a dearth of games strikes me as very peculiar.

Why does anyone do it? What's wrong with waiting 4 or 5 months to gauge the scene? At that point the prices might have lowered a little, the hype will have been replaced with more level headed criticism, and there will certainly more games.

I just don't understand why anyone would do it. I certainly don't understand why on November 22nd / 23rd the news will be filled with clips of losers queuing up and streaming into stores to buy a console at midnight.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[Anonymous Coward]

"What's wrong with waiting 4 or 5 months to gauge the scene?"

Um, because they will be having fun with their new console for those 4 or 5 months while you "gauge the scene."

Kinda like the guys who actually go out and get girls while people like you stand around trying to "gauge the scene."

Stop being a "scene gauger" man, start living!

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[TyrionEagle]

Because if everybody waits for 4-5 months, there will be no scene to gauge. Almost half a year with no hardware sold will kill most consoles dead.

Be happy that there are poeple willing to buy them on day one, otherwise sheep like yourself will have noone to follow.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[steveo777]

Think about it this way. If everyone uses your mentality, then there will be no scene to scope out. It's not really about owning it on the first day, it's about being able to play the games as soon as possible. At least, for most people. It's about the release games and thats it.

And everybody's right about this one. Where in the name of Comander Taco are the games? They talk about the system every day, but nobody has much to go on with the release games besides the crap from E3 that wasn't running on the system. And for that matter, the graphics for the one game I want to play (Perfect Dark) don't impress me any more than a poorly-devoloped game for any of the current generation systems.

Sure, Elder Scrolls looks great and all, but AFAIK it doesn't have a confirmed release date. If I'm wrong, let me know, but don't link it. I'll have to trust you, I can't get onto any gaming sites while I'm at work.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[DrXym]

Um, because they will be having fun with their new console for those 4 or 5 months while you "gauge the scene."

Possibly. More likely they'll be desperately trying to have fun with handful of mediocre titles for that 4 or 5 months with barely a trickle of new releases. On top of that if they're extra unlucky they'll discover they're the proud owner of a box containing serious flaws. All for the sake of "being first" and paying over the odds.

Kinda like the guys who actually go out and get girls while people like you stand around trying to "gauge the scene."

That comparison is both sad and ironic.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[Pulzar]

The mentality of owning something first when...

It's not at all the mentality of being first (for most of the people, anyway), it's the mentality of new entertainment technology that most likely better than the old one, and will probably be more fun. I bought a Nano a couple of days ago not to be "first", but because it's much better than what I had before, and from the specs appears to be what I need.

Sure, there's a risk that there will be problems and flaws, but both Microsoft and Apple are fairly large companies that will most likely correct any major flaws in some way that will satisfy consumers, and we will all find ways around the smaller flaws, like we always do with any other technology.

I could wait 4-5 months, but then I'd have a crappy 64MB MP3 player for another 5 months. Odds are in my favour that I will be happy with the purchase.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[fani]

Similar to ....
    landing a person on moon when its overhyped, unproven, expensive and has a dearth of atmosphere ?

Dude, there is a pull among humans to own the best the first and fastest.
Hence, why people queue up in long lines during sale days at your local malls.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[jparp]

because i can

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[DrXym]

The operative phrase is "most likely". You're throwing a big pile of money to buy something which isn't going anywhere. It will still be there in a week, two weeks and six months from now. The difference is that it will prove itself and some games might actually turn up that justify getting it.

It isn't valid to compare it to an iPod since an iPod Nano plays all your old music. It remains to be seen what backwards compatibility the XBox 360 has.

So why take the risk? You say MS & Sony would correct major flaws, but if the XBox 360 turns out to not play half your XBox games, or the core version doesn't play them at all. Or XBox Live goes DOA under the strain. Or none of the games support HD TV. Do you think MS are going to give you a refund? Even Sony didn't exactly bend over backwards to fix dead pixels in the PSP.

Re:Who is going to buy it and why?

[Pulzar]

It isn't valid to compare it to an iPod since an iPod Nano plays all your old music. It remains to be seen what backwards compatibility the XBox 360 has. So why take the risk? You say MS & Sony would correct major flaws, but if the XBox 360 turns out to not play half your XBox games, or the core version doesn't play them at all.

But, I'm not buying Xbox 360 to play my old Xbox games. I already have the original Xbox for that! The fact that it will play some of them is simply a matter of convenience -- I might be able to remove the old xbox from my living room, or I might not. It will not make or break the console.

Or XBox Live goes DOA under the strain. Or none of the games support HD TV.

Those are the types of things I find very unlikely to happen, and will take my chances with. Regular Xbox games already support HD, Live has been doing very well under the current strain... It's possible, but not likely.

So why take the risk?

So, I think my original argument still stands. If I wait six months, that's six months that I will not enjoy this entertainment device that will most likely work better than the current one. If I'm sure that I will get it six months from now if no catastrophic failures occur, and I find those unlikely, then I might as well get it now.

If Microsoft was smart....

[DarthVain]

I would think they would be jumping all over the MMRPG type genre. I mean the one adventage that the Xbox has over PS is that they beat them to the punch for online content and games. You would want to capitalize on that as much as possible. Also seeing as these types of games are generally accepted as being more than slightly addictive it just makes good sense. However when I look at the list of games I see 2005 this and #6 of that... same old same old. Lets have some inovation (well at least as consoles are concerned). People have been talking about the gap between the PC and the Console and the users who populate both markets, but all I see is PC's innovating and Consoles playing catchup (and rather slowly at that!). MS should be captializing on thier strengths (online play, and release date).

If I thought that by buying the new 360, that I would go out and get a copy of Worlds of Warcraft, or Dark Age of Camalot, or City of Heros, etc... I would probably be more willing to make a leap of faith. As it stands I will wait. Wait and see.

Let the reviewers review, PS and xbox... and wait for games (such as halo)... but in the meantime probably more than a year will go by... all that revune lost... for shame.

Methinks MS isn't used to competing or something.

Though one good thing I see is they finally have Final Fantasy games coming out for the xbox.

Anyway thats my 2 cents.

Re:If Microsoft was smart....

[gone6713]

The only Final Fantasy game that is going go come out for the xBox 360 is Final Fantasy XI, which is a MMORPG. Although I am going to guess that you won't need to subscribe to xBox live to play it online, just the montly fee to SquareEnix.

Re:If Microsoft was smart....

[DarthVain]

Sweet Thanks for the update... Though I have heard nothing about the FF MMORPG though I remeber they did have one for PS that came with a HD. I will have to do some looking around online and get some details of XI (it isn't the same one is it?)

Re:If Microsoft was smart....

[Saige]

Yes, you are correct - you can play MMORPGs on the Xbox 360 without having to sign up for an Xbox Live Gold account. That one is only needed for playing mutliplayer with your standard games. Any game that charges on it's own for multiplayer play will not require payment to Xbox Live.

Great timing, pity about the hardware

[Morgaine]

Coming out on Nov 22 is actually pretty good timing.

It's not just good, it's terrific timing! MS are damn brilliant at marketting.

The problem is that everyone's so dismayed at the crappiness of the 360 machine, even the Xbox supporters. (I have an Xbox1 and I love it, I consider myself a supporter. It's my main CD player and secondary DVD player, and it works great. And I think I have an Xbox game somewhere too. Oh yeah, it's MechAssault, for launching Linux.)

3 cores is good in principle, but they're awfully slow, and the ATI graphics ... :-((((((((((

I guess I'll buy one if I find the money (let's not talk about the price, eww), but I find it hard to put myself in the boots of a non-geek and still find a reason to buy this machine. A PS2 simply has no rival atm, and the PS3 is looking utterly deadly. Hell, it would look deadly even if it didn't play the dozens of thousands of PS2 titles out there.

There's just no contest atm, but I wish MS well anyway (the Xbox1 was great hardware).

Re:Great timing, pity about the hardware

[AArmadillo]

Erm... are you just biased against ATI or something? I mean, I am too because their linux drivers are shit, but as far as raw performance (on Windows) goes they're neck-and-neck with nVidia. In fact, I remember reading on several gaming sites that the 360's GPU is slightly more powerful than then PS3's nVidia GPU.

Re:Great timing, pity about the hardware

[reedsr]

>> In fact, I remember reading on several gaming sites that the 360's GPU is slightly more powerful than then PS3's nVidia GPU

Care to provide a link?

Re:Great timing, pity about the hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

3 cores is good in principle, but they're awfully slow, and the ATI graphics ... :-((((((((((

Put the crack pipe down.

In 30 seconds I found the following bits of "information" to counter your arguement:

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/42206 /Kameo-Elements-of-Power/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/42204 /Kameo-Elements-of-Power/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/42203 /Kameo-Elements-of-Power/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/42198 /Kameo-Elements-of-Power/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/42271 /Dead-or-Alive-4/
http://www.bizarreonline.net/index.php?action=full news&showcomments=1&id=52
http://www.bizarreonline.net/index.php?action=full news&showcomments=1&id=32
http://www.bizarreonline.net/index.php?action=full news&showcomments=1&id=53
http://cliffyb.1up.com/

Sony's most likely response

[vlad_petric]

Reduce the price of PS2 to 99$

Re:Sony's most likely response

[KillShill]

the ps2 should have been reduced to 99 a couple of years back.

it's not worth anywhere near 150 they're asking for it these days.

the gamecube, a superior machine in every respect, was selling for 99 for a few years now.

yeah they're overcharging like a mother and that people have had to replace their ps2's because of the shoddy manufacturing... well that's just the icing on the cake.

at least the xbox comes with a hard drive and has superior construction and a better machine over all, costs 150 too.

Re:Sony's most likely response

[NeMon'ess]

Except it already has huge market penetration. It's not the same as when the Gamecube dropped to $99 because a much smaller fraction of the market owned them.

Only the first day

[tkrotchko]

I have a feeling the Xbox launch will be like the PSP... lots of hype, some fanatics buying $500-600 bundles, and the truth was that they struggled on the shelves that first day.

The only thing the new xbox seems to promise is more expensive games, and like the PSP, no games that are "must haves".

I think the XBox mkII and PS3 are in trouble before they start. Is "more polygons" the reason to throw out your game library and start again?

Re:Only the first day

[tgibbs]

I think the XBox mkII and PS3 are in trouble before they start. Is "more polygons" the reason to throw out your game library and start again?

I don't throw out my game library. I still have my SNES and Genesis games and they still work just fine. But I am looking forward to a system that supports wide-screen HD quality graphics out of the box.

Re:Only the first day

[Anonymous Coward]

"Is "more polygons" the reason to throw out your game library and start again?"

We live in a VERY wealthy society. The same parents that had no problem spending $500 for kids when PS2 and Xbox came out(includes extra games etc) will do the same for Xbox 2. So having to rebuild your entire game library over suddenly doesn't become a reason not to upgrade.

Money is no objective these days when it comes to consumer electronics. Just look how well the original Ipods sold. And the Ipod can only play music. Look at how well HDTV sets are selling.

Time for redemption

[foshizzlemynizzle]

and the phrophesy has been fulfilled. The four horse man of the apocalypse shall ride......

Re:Time for redemption

[cornface]

and the phrophesy has been fulfilled. The four horse man of the apocalypse shall ride......

No man needs more than two horses. Three if one is for snuggling.

Four?

No, the world is not yet ready for the advent of the four horse man.

Re:Time for redemption

[hobbesx]

Dear Sir,

I would gladly trade you one horse for +5 'Funny' mod points. He has been well taken care of and never been 'snuggled'.

p.s. Please unsubscribe me from your newsletter.

Re:Time for redemption

[Anonymous Coward]

He put an extra space in his post!

Har har har!

Re:Time for redemption

[cornface]

I know!

Stop touching yourself!

And using exclamation points!

And touching me!

With your peener!

On my face!

You cock gobbling douchebag!

Ha!

Ha!

Rated what?

[tepples]

OK, so there's an official list of North American launch titles. How many of the launch titles will likely be rated E for Everyone by the ESRB, other than perhaps the sport sims? If not, then how will Microsoft move enough consoles to claim a successful launch without selling to parents?

Re:Rated what?

[angle_slam]

That page lists games. Nowhere does it say that they are all launch games or that they are the only launch games. Just that they are games.

Re:Rated what?

[tepples]

So what page lists Xbox 360 (U) launch games that are likely to be rated E?

Re:Rated what?

[Rayonic]

How many of the launch titles will likely be rated E for Everyone by the ESRB, other than perhaps the sport sims? If not, then how will Microsoft move enough consoles to claim a successful launch without selling to parents?

The titles probably haven't been submitted to the ESRB for a rating yet.

Re:Rated what?

[tepples]

The titles probably haven't been submitted to the ESRB for a rating yet.

Possibly, but there's a big difference between "Rating Pending - we expect E" and "Rating Pending - we expect M". What titles suitable for the whole family will be available for the Xbox 360 at launch? Or are parents expected to wait for the Ninty Ninty Revolution?

Halo 3 shipped on March 22, 1990

[tepples]

Somebody wake me when Halo-3 ships

Good morning (I'll do anything for you)
Good morning (just tell me what you want me to)

Re:Four-horse Man

[Anonymous Coward]

A Four-Horse man is a man who can vertically lift 550lbm 4 feet in 1 second.

Yeah, but

[elbenito69]

Does it run Linux? Seriously. Will PPC linux run on the 360?

Re:Yeah, but

[Anonymous Coward]

> Will PPC linux run on the 360?

If MS has got their design right it will not.

wait for the PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't waist your money on the XBox360 yet - wait for the PS3. It will be on the US market sometime next spring/summer and will have ways better graphics performance and quite a bit more features.

Re:wait for the PS3

[phxbadash]

Says who? The only footage we've seen of PS3 has been video taped or CG. The killzone demo was a video of a scene rendered at 5fps and then sped up to 60 fps to not make it look like ass. The graphics capabilities of the PS3 and the 360 will be roughly the same. The only advantage that the ps3 is going to have right out of the box is the blu-ray drive, which in my opinion is less important than having a hard-drive to begin with.

Re:wait for the PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

The xbox 360 doesn't have a hard drive to begin with either, so what's your point?

Re:wait for the PS3

[phxbadash]

Only if you're too rediculously cheap to shell out the extra $100 to get the premium bundle.

Sony has not even finalized their plans for a hard drive yet, they have merely stated that they will have one eventually. Deja Vu anyone?

Obligatory Malcom Quote

[brodin]

Don't lie son, no one defeats sub-zero...

PS3 excitement

[Morgaine]

There's some serious excitement fragility in this thread.

The only way in which a geek could not be excited by PS3 is through either not having read the specs or not believing that Sony will deliver on them. (The latter view is perfectly legit.)

Pure hype is of course pure crap and every geek needs to be wise to it, but you're an informed bunch, you can analyse the hype and see for yourselves the truth (or otherwise) behind it.

I'm a researcher in concurrency and parallism. dating waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back to the days of the transputer, and I can tell you that (i) the Cell model is good, (ii) it's looking great from an open O/S perspective since the German Linux dev team is working wonders on the IBM Cell blade, and (iii) if Sony delivers only a fraction of the claimed functionality in the PS3, it will still be meteoric.

So, for technically-oriented geeks, this whole issue is utterly clearcut, and the Xbox 360 is just a sideshow. The fact that PS3 will run the dozens of thousand of PS2 games while Xbox 360 is not backwards compatible to Xbox1 is merely a side issue.

The more hardware the better, but there isn't a serious contest here.

Re:PS3 excitement

[Saige]

The fact that PS3 will run the dozens of thousand of PS2 games while Xbox 360 is not backwards compatible to Xbox1 is merely a side issue.

The fact that this has repeatedly stated to be false makes this a non-issue, except for the rabit anti-Microsoft bashers around here. The 360 has back compat through emulation, and while it won't be 100%, the number will only increase over time. All the big games will be running at launch, and probably a lot more.

I'll judge the PS3 when they actually get close to shipping something, so I can see what the actual specs are going to be, not the hyped specs that have no chance in being real. They've already shed some things from the E3 claims, and I'm sure more will be coming - only closer the PS3 launch, so they can distract as many people as possible with how amazing the machine supposedly will be, only to find lots of stuff disappearing not long before actual launch.

Re:PS3 excitement

[ninjakoala]

On the other hand we also know from experience that Sony are the masters of hype. We were promised photo realistic graphics on the PS2 and still it took the PS2 years to catch up to the average Dreamcast visuals.

After inspecting the Cell I also have my reservations about it. I'm far from certain it will be the beast it is claimed to be. Just like the PS3 will be far from what Sony promised it would.

I'm not saying the 360 will be all that either - both are overhyped. I'm really only excited about what Nintendo are going to do about Revolution. That's the only really interesting factor left.

Sony is a tool

[anglozaxxon]

From what I've seen, Sony is a pile of shitheads, so I don't intend to buy their system. Firstly, everything I've bought from Sony has been a piece of feculent overpriced garbage. Secondly, they really shouldn't be in the electronics industry if they're not going to innovate at all.

I mean, come on, the PS2 was what, maybe 4 times as powerful as PS1? I remember playing the PC port of GTA San Andreas and barfing everywhere because it looked so crappy. (Don't get me wrong -- otherwise I loved it.) After a while, I guess I got used to it, but then I played a couple of XBox ports like Prince of Persia Warrior Within and Fable, and I barfed for whole new reasons (i.e., because they're gorgeous and don't slow down at all on my ever-aging PC like GTA SA did).

I really hope Nintendo pulls their heads out of their asses on this next generation of consoles. I mean, each Mario was about a thousand times better than its predecessors (maybe SMB2 excepted) in terms of innovation, up until the GC ones, which I admittedly have never touched. Speaking of touched, WarioWare Inc for GBA was one of those games where I thought, "OMFG d00d3rs! The video games being put out today by mainstream companies don't entirely suck!" Besides the GTA series, I have yet to play a game for PS2 that is any good in terms of being different from all other games, and even it's getting a tad stale.

Now, Microsoft's doing some groovy stuff with online gaming, and I really salute them for that, (as well as the harddrive; memory cards are obsolete dudes), but beyond FPSs and sports games (which were never really my bag), I have yet to hear of a good multiplayer game for XBox.

So here's my take on the whole next gen sitchy-ation:

• Microsoft: They're doing the right thing hardware wise, i.e., actually something. But the games are pretty much what you'll find on PS2 with better graphics, sound, yada yada. So, shinier box around the same piece of dog shit.
• Sony: They're king of the mountain and don't have to do much to maintain their position there. So they don't. PS3 = PS2 + 16MB RAM + 100Mhz processing power. If they use that same damn controller again, I'm gonna plotz. (On a flip-flopping sidenote, PSP is really cool in my opinion, though retardedly pricey and lacking focus.)
• Nintendo: You're my only hope for salvation, so don't fuck it up. Nintendo's in the unfortunate position of being the underdogs, and thus do I root for them. They can't win by recycling their existing library of games (barring Zelda, Mario, and the like, because those always rule), so they're gonna have to do something awesomely new, which is what they're doing, from what I've heard.

[/entirely excessively long rant]

If it weren't for Rare...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry but the whole "release date as headline" only serves as deja-vu on SEGA's misplaced priorities that sunk the hardware side.

Dreamcast 2 anyone? It's out first!

My Birthday!

[Soong]

Maybe someone will get me one. 0:-)

I'd never buy one, but might accept it as a gift.

KOTOR

[Crapshoot]

Eh, the only reason I bought my X-box was to play KOTOR (best game I've played in years) and KOTOR 2 (not so much). So if KOTOR 3 is exclusive to the X-box- that might influence my choices.

Optics : Merriam-Webster says...

[Danuvius]

And this has bad optics for the console that is pushing Hi Def Everything.

Main Entry: optics
Pronunciation: 'äp-tiks
Function: noun plural but singular in construction
: a science that deals with the genesis and propagation of light, the changes that it undergoes and produces, and other phenomena closely associated with it

Re:Optics : Merriam-Webster says...

[thatguywhoiam]

Perhaps you misunderstood - 'optics' is an expression, regarding the perceived appearance of something, usually media-related.

Re:Optics : Merriam-Webster says...

[Danuvius]

I did not misunderstand. I was suggesting that in fact 'optics' is a word with a well established meaning that people have a tendency to misuse to mean "appearances" when they try to (whether intentionally or due to a bad habit) obfuscate their speech or writing. (And for the record, I did not copy one definition out of many from m-w.com. I copied the whole and only definition.)

In fact, with your sentence specifically, I would suggest that ideal english usage would not have even seen the light of "appearances" either.

How about instead of

And this has bad optics for the console that is pushing Hi Def Everything.

this

And this looks bad for the console that is pushing Hi Def Everything.

Dreamcast fanboi?

[toriver]

Welcome to the stage of history.

lol internet

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but will Xbox 360 have MGS4?

Yea but....

[Anonymous Coward]

My opera browser can play games. Sorry, had to be done. cheers, -b

11/22?

[Guppy06]

Obviously it's release is intended to commemorate the death of President Kennedy!

Or my mother's birthday (which is the only reason I remember the JFK thing). But it's more likely the assassination thing.

that's not the idea

[vlad_petric]

The idea is simply to create market confusion at the most critical point of a competitor's launch.

Well what should I do

[SuperKendall]

Does anything? Should they hold up the release date and tack on another $100 -- at least -- to the price for HD-DVD when no one else has it and there's no software for it aside from games?

As far as I'm concerned yes - otherwise I'm paying $400 a year later for the 360 HD model that does include the drive in order to play games that require it.

Frankly it's a lot simpler just not to purchase it now.

I think you are confused about rich and poor

[SuperKendall]

I think it's just another indication of the divide here in the USA; the rich are so much wealthier here that they will pay a $50 markup for a $5 headset, a $2 remote, and a $40 harddrive

Um, I think you are confused - rich people are ones that figure out how to keep money (even if they do not make a lot), poor people are the ones who go and buy $400 consoles on release day or otherwise buy on whims all the time.

Even 20k a year can make you a millionaire eventually if you are thrifty.

Re:I think you are confused about rich and poor

[dabraun]

Uhh.

20k * 45 years (working from 20 to 65) = 900,000. You won't be a millionare even if you spend nothing. If you're thinking about investments made with that money well ... investment gains *are* income.

Really should be insightful?

[spoco2]

I mean, I completely agree with this... I already may have a media centre pc, but it uses more power than an xbox would, is noisier than an xbox is, doesn't look as nice as an xbox...(hey, I did paint it black, but still) and, well, just isn't as cool as having a silent xbox sitting and being a media centre.

But can it be my Shareaza download box as well?

Oooh, Shareaza has a new version... must download. :)

Uhh, what I meant!!

[SuperKendall]

Uhh, Of course investments would be used. That's implied by the people being frugal. Where else are they going to put the money they are not spending?

Already a hack site setting up for it!!! lol

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.hack360.com/