Slashdot Mirror
Have Geeks Gone Mainstream?
An anonymous reader asks: "Recently, I've been seeing more and more news stories about how 'geek' has gone mainstream. There have been a slew of articles with titles like Geek Pride and Geek Chic, which discuss how movies like 'The 40-Year Old Virgin' and 'Napoleon Dynamite', as well as television shows like 'Beauty and the Geek' have made it cool to be a geek. Two pinup calendars of geeks have been released this year, taking advantage of the new mainstream interest in all things geeky. These include the Geek Gorgeous Calendar, which features women who work in the hi-tech industry, and the Girls of Geekdom Calendar, which includes geeks like 'Art Geek' and 'Movie Geek'. So if being a geek has really become cool, why has interest in CS as a major dropped among incoming freshmen and women are still a minority in computer and engineering fields? Is it cooler to pretend to be a geek (wear 'Save Pedro' shirts, etc.) than to really be one?"
Yes. End of thread.
ERROR 144 - REBOOT ?
Yeah, it's nice. I mention I can compile a kernel in any bar, and models, strippers and hookers are begging me to do coke off their tits.
Truly amazing.
Wearing a "Save Pedro" shirt isn't cool anymore. My youngest brother is in highschool, and probably three quarters of his friends have (and regularly wear) these shirts. When a "fashion" has made it to high school it's no longer cool.
I blame napoleon dynamite, he gives us all a bad name...
Behold, another webcomic!
Part of the definition is that it is not mainstream.
If anyone from a previous century saw the average person today, they'd think we were all geeks (or spacepeople or heretics)
I might not understand, but I thought it portrayed geeks in the worst light humanly possible, and that is where it got its humor from. How would that make it cool to be a geek?
Interest in being a CS major has dropped because there is a well known stereotype about IT workers being the most overworked and underappreciated and underpaid people in any business. The fact that this is often the truth does not help matters.
...the mainstream is enamoured with geekdom.
True geeks will never go mainstream. They'll (we'll) always be geeks unto our own.
sig: sauer
The only reason interest in CS has dropped is because only the smart geeks and nerds who spent their time studying upside-down in trash cans are the ones who take it.
As for the minority of women, well...You don't see a lot of girls upside-down in trash cans, do you?
It takes a lot of work to be a "geek" in any real sense of the word. Learning the ins and outs of math/science/technology/whatever requires time and commitment, which most people can't (or won't) afford. So why go through all the hassle when you can just pretend you're "down with it" and join the crowd. It's just like any other cultural trend: take (more modern) rap music for example. Not everybody can rap like P. Diddy, but if you wear his clothes and represent yourself as if you were part of his culture, you too can become cool.
I think it's less that people are pretending to be geeks, and more that people already think they are (whether or not they actually are). It's the "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" phenomenon: Everybody, even the insiders, feels like an outsider. So they identify with the pop-culture image of outsiders, even if they don't fit it at all. Geeks are perceived to be outsiders, so people identify with geeks, and want to proclaim their "outsider" status by claiming geek culture as their own.
The lack of interest in CS as a profession is not especially related, IMHO. People who already think of themselves as geeks may adopt what they think of as the geek "uniform", but aren't likely to alter their own genuine interests just because it's what geeks are expected to do. That is, they want to show that they're geeks, by looking like geeks, but they don't have to prove it by acting like geeks, because (as far as they're concerned) they already do.
The lack of interest in CS also, I suspect, is directly related to the perception that, since the dotcom bust, the country is glutted with out-of-work or underpaid IT people, and there is (the perception goes) therefore no future in it.
How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
Only the hollywood version of the "geek" has gone mainstream. If people knew and understood real geeks, nobody would want to be one.
Meh.
"Is it cooler to pretend to be a geek (wear 'Save Pedro' shirts, etc.) than to really be one?"
I don't know really, you tell me? I voted for Pedro, did you? (kidding)
PS on the GeekGorgeous.com website, the link titled "buy it now!" does not mean you can simply buy a hottie programmer for I/O testing purposes.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
If the difference between, say, the 'normal' girl and the 'geeky' girl is comprised somehow of interests or intellect, how do pinup calendars really celebrate that? I checked the sites out, and I'm not really sure where the 'geek' comes into play. Ok, so instead of just crossing her arms, she uses a tactfully placed book? Sure, cheesecake is cheesecake and I suppose that'll appeal to any guy or girl of that interest, but really, whats so special?
To look at it another way, If the pizza guy/pool boy/plumber was somehow replaced with a Geek Squad member, would we now be heralding the era of "geek porn"? If it was an alien (I suppose he'd have many tentacles), would it be that sci-fi porn be a direct appeal to geekdom? No, not really, you'd more likely lump it into the generic porn category and just think of it as a minor variation, not as some categorically unique appeal to a "niche" market. Ok, so maybe the tentacle stuff is it's own category, but it's not because it's "geeky"
Then again, I could be wrong, I may not just "get it," but I'm not sure how this is classifiably different than any other pinup calendar, and I hardly see the grand significance in mainstream acceptance or perception of geekiness. Seems like this was just the posters attempt to appeal to the CowboyNeal in all of us to get this story approved.
First of all, CompSci is a well known for silly hours and miserable job security. But secondly and more importantly, since when is CompSci THE geek major? What about engineering and the physical sciences?
it's not "Save Pedro," it's "Vote for Pedro" or my favorite "Pedro Lack Political Experience"
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
...and chicks throw their panties at me when they see me in my "Free Kevin" T-shirt.
Sorry to say, but I just think that the "computer geek" pin-up model just fits too well with the typical computer geek... TOO well to be a pin-up, maybe. I don't really think that geek will ever really be cool or sexy, since an important part of what makes someone a geek is the lack of concern for coolness and a really under-developed (read:adolescent) sexual identity. Not only that, but the most geeky geeks that I know are much more concerned about the most correct logical conjugation of something than the idea that other people (especially those who aren't too interested in some obscure geekiness) even exist as incarnations other than a computer-screen glow. I mean, being a geek seems antithetical to being cool.
If one can be an 'art geek' or 'movie geek' it's not necessarily so surprising is it? It doesn't seem as if the term is necessarily confined to people who tinker with machines anymore, and that it's simply just a fashion statement. (Would any geek want to actually be Napoleon Dynamite, who despite his dancing skills, in good faith tried to use a patently bogus time machine?) Since being a 'geek' has been disassociated with being a coder or engineer, it seems more like the mainstream has managed to steal a concept from a subculture and put its own mainstream spin on it.
I do, however, have a friend who decided to be a Comp Sci major because of the movie Hackers, so make of that what you will.
It wasn't me, it was the one-armed
Just because you have an iPod, doesn't make you a geek!
Like most, I know many self-proclaimed computer geeks, people who've managed to convince their non-geek friends and family that they are as 1337 as 1337 can be. They all talk the talk of the stereotypical Hollywood-type computer geek, down to the anti-fashion sense.
:(
But attempt to talk to them in a geek-to-geek situation and you find they don't walk the walk. Sure, they know Windows and many of them have a superficial ability to drive *nix, but the underlying understanding of systems isn't there. They've memorised large chunks of various '...For Dummies' and Sybex books, but really haven't a clue at the end of the day.
One chick I met, sporting the mandatory Goth-ensemble and 'tude, had long talked herself way up as a Cisco/IOS guru, but when placed in front of a keyboard and asked to help resolve a conflict (2800 having a bad-hair day) even the 1/2" thick titanium-white makeup couldn't hide the blush. She's not unique, or even slightly ununsual. Gothgirl didn't even know where to begin.
I'm beginning to think that genuine computer geeks are an endangered species, on the way to being completely usurped by Microsoft Certified nohopers and other charlatans.
at best buy is a good example of the marketing on the image as well.
Ive seen alot of college kids with Save Pedro shirts around, and I can tell you with some certainty that NONE of them are geeks.
"Is it cooler to pretend to be a geek (wear 'Save Pedro' shirts, etc.) than to really be one?"
ummmm....according to napolean dynamite...isn't it "Vote for Pedro"?
shanegrant.com
I'm so sick of people being cool-geeky or whatever you want to call it. It's just another way for people with no personality of their own to attempt to fit in with the crowd. Grow up and be your own person.
"So if being a geek has really become cool, why has interest in CS as a major dropped among incoming freshmen and women are still a minority in computer and engineering fields?" Maybe because kids have figured out that a career in comp sci is more like being an indentured servant to EA in a cubicle farm than it is like being in the movie "Hackers" ?
That character in Napolean Dynamite was a giant DORK, not a geek. The are mutually exclusive in my opinion.
... CS is NOT the only thing that geeks are into. That's really fracking annoying that people keep repeating that myth. Math, physics, biology, etc... These are all valid Geek pursuits. Even history. Come to think of it, the biggest geek I personally know(and I know many) is a geologist.
Since when did a movie like that make geeks look "cool"? It's about a guy with several stereotypically geeky hobbies, who can't get laid AT ALL despite being at least reasonably attractive. Yeah, he's "nice" but that's like saying Gone With the Wind helped whites accept blacks because Mammy didn't shoot and rob Scarlett (much as the rest of us may have wanted to).
Notice they didn't make the character a beer-bellied 40-year-old sports fan virgin with a collection of World Series bobbleheads, that's all I'm saying. Don't kid yourselves that geeks are now "cool".
Freedom: "I won't!"
This isn't hard....
1. Bring a geek is still not cool. Your best bet is to hang out with other geeks and try to be at least the coolest of the non-cool.
2. Enrollment in CS courses is down because there is no future in it. Everything you can learn in CS can be farmed out to some Indian tech worker for 1/10 th price of anybody in the US. They have all the theory and none of the experience, which is what today's company-on-the-go needs.
3. Girls aren't in technical fields because the educational interests in the US have been to neuter the school curriculum to make females feel more important. Instead of getting girls interested in science, it just means that Home Economics is worth more credit than AP Physics. This is important because girls suck at math and logic, but we need them to graduate for some reason.
Not everyone who choses comp sci or some other "geeky" degree is automatically a geek. A lot of people are just in it for the money. If you look at the graph in the one linked article, there are two spikes -- the first one starting in the late 70's and early 80's and peaking in 83-84, which corresponds with the rise and fall of the 8-bit personal computer era; and the second one centered around the internet bubble. When computers were percieved as being a cool and/or profitable career in mainstream culture, a lot of people gravitated for it for the status and/or the money, not because they were computer geeks. When the bubble bursts and computers fall out of the spotlight, the trend-followers leave for greener pastures.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
University of Victoria in BC, Canada did a survey among their female computer science students to find out why it isnt popular among women. It must be pointed out that UVic has a 30% female CS student population, and are shooting for 50%. The number one reason given in this survey was girls dont like CS because the classrooms and labs smell. Not surprising, since it seems that CS students personal hygiene skills are more lacking then their social skills. Sometimes it is to the point where Im ashamed to call some of these people my colleagues.
You don't see a lot of girls upside-down in trash cans, do you?
Hmmm maybe if we put CS books next to kegs, there would be an increase.
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
All I knows is thats the geek girls are hawt!
Meh.
Poser
-everphilski-
Are you people trying to mess up? Gahh!
"Geek" in the mainstream is just a fad. Geek as many of you know it, can refers to the poor skinny white kid with glasses who have a hard time ever get any. What's the difference between something like The Real World (real show on MTV) or like Geeks in a Basement (something I just made up). It just exposes us to something that we're not normally accustomed to seeing, that's all. Isn't the reason why we watch tv? To be in our own fantasy world or to laugh at others?
Having a degree in computer science isn't necessarily the only way to get a computer related job when one graduates college. At my school, there are other computer related majors such as information studies (IS) and management information systems (MIS), which have different roots. I am a female MIS major at my school. The ratio of males to females in my major classes is around 60/40.
I could be a programmer when I graduate, though someone with a degree in CS would typically be more equipped to be able to do a better job than I am. I think most of the MIS girls here are going to be the project manager types as opposed to computar geeks (me). Most of the guys I know who drop out of CS go to IS or MIS (they mostly go IS because it has less prereqs).
Napolean Dynamite was a particular nerd from a particular time. The timeframe was the early nineties, and the setting was smalltown america, a different kid who wasnt trying to fit in. He wasn't a typical "geek" who is here on /.
-everphilski-
Being a geek isn't cool, things geeks knew 20 years ago are now becoming cool. The technology we knew of/designed/supported have now gone main stream so more people seme like geeks. But in the heart of every true geek there is a love beyond "it's fashionable", the love of code/toys/pcs/whatever. While at the moment it's "cool" to be a geek the real geeks are never seen because we're too busy doing our own thing and ignoring the fads.
Give it 5-10 years and we'll see the fad blow over. When it does you'll see a lot of (insert new fad here)s and the same old bunch of geeks with no toys to play with thanks to all the idiots driving the industries we love with their loose money.
I like muppets.
Popular media starring "geeks" are nothing new. See Egon Spengler and Louis from Ghostbusters. See Erkel (if you must). Or Melvin Belvin (Happy Days). Or this delightful spread of Mr. Gates.
If anything, "geekdom," in America at least, is in decline. During the space race, NASA engineers were revered. Now they are the subject of mockery. There was a time when the public was excited about the release of new American cars. And as the summary states, computer science is less enticing to young scholars.
Two poorly crafted calendars and a movie starring a geek who is enjoyable because he is amusing (to some) do not a watershed moment make. "Vote For Pedro" shirts are an homage to MTV (the organization that produced and popularized the film) that have nothing to do with reading engineering texts for fun, spending all your spare time programming, or being the proud owner of a slide rule.
You're home on a friday night reading slashdot!!! You're either a geek or married.
Meh.
Being a geek is hard. Pretending to be one is somewhat easier.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Maybe because such stupid calendars? When was the last time you saw Linus, Ingo, and Stallman on a pinup calendar? Sure, you will kid about their (esp. Stallman) appearance. But that is my point!! Nobody cares about these male ubergeeks' appearance; why should we care about the female geeks' ?
I, for one, would like to see more sites dedicated to the many female geeks in our community who quietly toil away. The best way to promote geekdom among women is to highlight the women geeks' accomplishments, and not their vital stats. (If there are such sites out there, please post some links).
Geeks haven't gone mainstream. Mainstream - as it always does - has borrowed elements from what it thinks geeks are about and misappropriated them. Namely, it's taken consumer electronic technology advancement and misidentified what is a continuation of the hi-fi, walkman and telephone as geekiness. That's just human progression, geeks are always one step ahead (or behind, depending on how you look at it).
The core of being a geek mainstream will never have; the focussed, almost obsessive interest in certain subjects. Mainstream by definition is superficial, throwaway and temporary, geekdom is built on much more substantial foundations such as science, knowledge and a need to understand.
well I'am a CS student switching to Marketing.. The reason I switched because I won't do the math in Calculus,Physics because of DysCalculia (ahh no sympathy) so instead of being in a canumdrum next year and retake all the classes for marketing I'll start now. I find myself bored in CP1 because I know all of this and bored in Computer Architecture because It's not the material I want to know.. I don't care how a CPU is engineered. I liked writing business apps so switching to a Business Degree was the only option.. That and I want to become a corrupt rich bastard like Bill Gates! :)
I've known a lot of geeks and nerds, but have yet to meet even one that actually uses a pocket protector! Maybe I'm not "in" with the real geek crowd?
Meh.
Get it right... Posers :P
-everphilski-
Vote Pedro indeed.
Being considered a "geek" is almost farcically easy anymore. You don't have to possess a mental lexicon of three-letter abbreviations, write a Z80 assembly program, or even understand how an operating system switches processes. No, nowadays someone is a "geek" for simply making a website or knowing the three-finger salute. It's very accessible, and people like patting themselves on the back for being knowledgable ("a geek") even if they only skim the surface.
Glog!
I started college in 2001 right before the bubble burst (it was just starting). I can't tell you how many idiots there were who entered CS along with me. There were people there who had never used a computer (literally). People who didn't know how to type, people with no math skills (I'm talking sub-algebra), etc. Those people were obviously in it for the money (which they all freely admitted). There was one or two (usually older adults) who decided to do it to learn more ("I don't know anything about computers, and I wanted to learn what made them tick."), but the vast majority were in it for the cash. Even among those who were more qualified, there were many who were in it for the money. You could tell who was who pretty easily. Those with the real passion already knew many things from studying it themselves. Those who wanted the cash tended to do the bare minimum and write horrid code ("As long as it works!").
Now that the bubble has burst, those people aren't there. If you want to compare enrollment numbers, look at the numbers from 1992 or 1995 so (before the bubble). I don't know what those numbers are, but I would think they would be more representative.
From what I hear, bio-med is the new CS. That (along with possibly accounting) is where you go if you want money as it is the new in industry with high pay.
It would be interesting to see how enrollment has changed over the last 10-20 years if you could filter out the gold-diggers. It would still be higher during the bubble from people who went into computers because they found them interesting (as they became more popular, more people became exposed, so more become interested). I'd love to see that.
As to the question "Have geeks gone mainstream"? No. They haven't. They never will. They existed in the '50s. They existed in the '70s. They existed in the '90s. They exist today. That is nearly 60 years and they haven't gone "mainstream" yet. Blacks have gone mainstream in that time (they are no longer outcasts). Gays have gone mainstream (you may say they're not there yet, but they are more than geeks). And geeks existed before the 1950s too. I don't think it will ever happen. We may get some acceptance, some respect, but we're not going to be mainstream. We're never going to see "pro-geeks" like we see "pro-atheletes".
At least not any time soon.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Geek is like cool: You don't declare yourself geek, you must be considered by your peers to be geek.
This doesn't mean that geek is cool, nor that cool is geek.
Once again, marketing knows what buttons to push. :-)
Look at the pointy knees!
You mean "the shocker"? Might know it, but have never used it. Oh, hold on, you mean the MS crash recovery thing... you know, us real geek have forgotten about, as we all run Linux now.
Meh.
The article blurb completely misses the point. I'm not going to waste my time looking at a bunch of supposedly "geek" chicks in a calendar or whatever so I didn't bother following the links.
HOWEVER, it's idiotic to say "are geeks acceptable and mainstream now?" just because ther'es a poster full of HOT chicks calling themselves geeks. (Or go the other way where you have your typical fugly girl who is only hot compared to your average fugly girl, but geeks usually have lower standards so as long as you're not 400lbs, you're a "hot chick").
The point being being a geek isn't acceptable or mainstream. Being hot and attractive is. Being attractive makes everything acceptable. Why do you think it's socially acceptable to be a drunk, a junkie (heroine chic anyone?), a dropout, a braindead social butterfly or any other number of things? Because as long as you're ATTRACTIVE, they're all acceptable.
Addicted to meth, but you're handsome or beautiful? Then it's okay. Addicted to twinkies? Go away fatty, we don't want to see you. Alcoholic? That's okay. It's a disease. you're sexy and we love you anyway. Gameaholic? You're a fucking loser. Go rot in the corner.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. Physical traits are beneficial to society and being attractive is more valuable than being smart. The only people who don't know or believe that are ugly people who think that brains are really as sexy as they are told.
Brains are sexy - in a sexy body. Be as smart as you want, but if you have fugly teeth or are fat or are goofy looking - you're still disgusting. And that's the way it should be.
And no, I'm not trolling. Don't mod me down just becuase you're afraid to confront the truth about the world.
what is the difference between a geek and a nerd? people who collect records aren't geeks, but i would definitely call them nerds.
"Have Geeks Gone Mainstream?"
I can tell you from first-hand experience with females: NO, Geeks have not gone mainstream!!
/dev/random
"Napoleon Dynamite" was a terrible movie. Or, at least, it had a terrible image of geekdom.
The kid had various geek stereotypes, sure. Lack of coordination, unshapely body, poor taste in dress, and so on.
But, the kid was not intelligent. That was made obvious. He was in fact less intelligent than most his age. And further, he lived a life full of pretension...he did not have the strong and direct mannerisms from which geeks draw their antisocial stereotypes. Instead he makes up shallow and obviously stupid stories about his exploits, utterly oblivious to how transparent they are.
How does he save himself at the end? By becoming brilliant? NO! By learning to DANCE. TO DANCE!!! What does that have to do with geekdome? Sure there is nothing wrong with it, but dancing is what the NON-GEEKS do to be cool.
If you want to see a REAL geek movie, go watch Real Genius. And maybe read some Larry Niven.
Geekery is defined by sublime levels of self-mastery. Geeks reject social standards which hold no value for them, and cultivate their minds to no end. The power of the human mind is what separates us from lower animals, and the geekly expression of this power places us at the cutting edge of human evolution. This is where the value of geekdom lies.
I would further suggest that geeks are the true authors of the world as we know it. Who invented shampoo? Who designed the intricate networks of pipes that carry our waste neatly away? Who created fine fabrics and devised methods of weaving them into finer clothing? Who created sports cars? Air conditioning? Athletic shoes? Everything, absolutely EVERYTHING that non-geeks love about themselves and their world was created by geeks.
Go geek or go away.
Ok, I am done.
Well, the thing is... most geeks I know really wouldn't be interested in doing coke off of hookers' tits. Rather, they'd probably be looking for girls that like to talk (about non lame things), play games, or various other not-necessarily-that-geeky but geek-interesting activities.
Others would probably just be happy to have a woman look at them. You can pull the slashdot stereotype but there really are many varieties of geek.
Who said that CS = Geek? I think most geeks can fall into CS, or a science, since they are all very technical control-freak jobs, where they can tweak variables, hack systems (in the Linus sense), and control the living crap out of something all in the reason of grokking.
/.er has, compaired to the normal population. It is the curiosity, not necissarily the technology.
From this I take geek = obsessive. Geek = someone who wants to know everything about an aspect of a system.
We, if I'm allowed to be a geek (not CS, not fully science), are intellectuals, we obsess more about theory and knowledge than about how we look, if people like us. Also, please compair the depth and number of hobbies that you average
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
So if being a geek has really become cool, why has interest in CS as a major dropped among incoming freshmen and women are still a minority in computer and engineering fields? Is it cooler to pretend to be a geek (wear 'Save Pedro' shirts, etc.) than to really be one?"
Austrailians were cool for a while, but you didn't see people running off to that prison. And that was one of those nice club-med style prisons, not some solitary confinement.
The ______ Agenda
But mathematicians and engineers can be just as much geek, and enrollment in those fields hasn't dropped.
under-developed (read:adolescent) sexual identity
Maybe I'm being defensive here, but as someone who identifies as a geek, I don't believe that geeks have to be sexually inept or oblivious. For heaven's sake, i've got geek friends who swing. I'm a geek, I dance funny, but I know my way around.
I agree that geek won't go mainstream, though. A watered down co-op version will, and then it will die out. But being a geek means truly enjoying and exploring your intellectual abilities, something that you either do or don't naturally.
Cheers.
...as when economics went mainstream. In this publication Alan Greenspan admits that he misses "the old scene".
Hero of Allacrost, a FOSS RPG for *NIX/*BSD/OS X/Win
The geekosphere works just like most other communities. There are things that are cool or trendy in it. For the high school fashion crowd, buying a trendy set of shoes would be "cool". For computer geeks, having an installation of Firefox with a ton of custom-made extensions would be "cool". Cool is just a matter of perspective.
Coolness. There's no escaping it!
"it's not about aptitude, it's the way you're viewed" - Galinda
i dont feel cool....did i do it wrong?
As for the minority of women, well...You don't see a lot of girls upside-down in trash cans, do you?
Aside from Slashdot, you and I must visit drastically different websites.
Follow the money.
This is just an example of why geeks are geeks.
Anyone remember the anti-Soviet propaganda? "Do you want to wear all the same clothes, and eat at the same restaurants, and stand in line just to go to the same store?" Well, there'll be about 50,000 kids tomorrow wearing the same "retro" t-shirts, waiting outside IKEA, venti pumpkin-spice latte in hand.
Emo kids, goths, urban kids, etc., are always looking for someone "cool" to imitate. How many people will you see tomorrow with the same uniform on - trucker cap, faux-vintage t-shirt, belt out of dad's closet, and corduroy or khaki pants with adidas-style sneakers. Being cool is so important, people drink Pabst Blue Ribbon when they could actually have beer.
The mainstream is the mainstream because it's easier to allow a marketing douche to think for you than to have to think for yourself. If you're a geek, than the latest drama on what was Music Television is still a fucking waste of time.
I have to agree with you. I mean, ThinkGeek itself is proof alone that geeks have their own sense of geek-cool, but the real question is about mainstream-ness. For instance, a music snob would abhor to say that their favorite band was some new and popular band (like Dashboard Confessional, for instance). Same thing for geeks. For some geeks, if something that is historically in the realm of geekdom (well, in the West [EU and US]), like anime, becomes mainstream, like Pokemon, they absolutely hate it like a zealot would despise a heretic. Granted, Pokemon is pretty much a bastardization of anime, but as soon as something becomes mainstream (or "chic"), just like a music snob, it's no longer geek.
Being a true geek, at least in the sense that most here would understand, can never be "mainstream." If it ain't sports or business or the like, it isn't mainstream.
For example, I was once out to dinner with several people in a business setting. The subject of high school sports came up. Five guys at the table spent the better part of an hour discussing divisions, rules, team rivalries, and the intricacies of who plays whom in what division/playoff/etc. They could discuss all the rule changes over the past 20 years and the pros/cons of it. You could have called them sports geeks, but that's a contradiction in terms in my opinion. Most people could at least follow the conversation or understand it or even have some remote interest in it.
Now imagine if that conversation instead was about FreeBSD vs. NetBSD vs. OpenBSD. Imagine if the conversation was about P2P software and the law. Imagine if 5 guys sat around discussing Ruby on Rails vs. Java. Imagine if 5 guys talked about modding a VW to hold a Mac. Most people would yawn or find it too technical or, well, geeky.
For that reason, true "geekdom" can never be mainstream.
-- Fugacity: Confusing chemists since 1908
If you think that you need to tell people that you are a geek by wearing a "Vote for Pedro" t-shirt, then you are probably not a geek.
First it was the hip hop crowd, then the punks, then the goths, now geeks have a poser problem. Unilike the other cliques, the geek culture can easily weed out the posers from the real deal with simplicity. A real geek loves to fiddle around with math equations in his spare time. A poser geek dreads the though of anything that involves mathematics or science. A real geek is way too busy with some analytical project to think about women. A poser geek is way too busy trying to look geeky so he can get women. A real geek has some sort of hobby that they learned about on the Internet (i.e.: HAM Radio). A poser geek has some sort of hobby that they learned about from Television. (i.e.: Yu-gi-oh/Pokemon Trading cards.) There are othe quality, but those seem to be the top three signs.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
And thus you enter the world of Hipsters. The Weezer geek-chic dress code, horn-rimmed glasses, etc etc which are just based on media images of geeks from the past. Check out http://www.hipstersareannoying.com/ and real geeks look like, for example, Brian Bishop.
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Is it cooler to pretend to be a geek (wear 'Save Pedro' shirts, etc.) than to really be one?
;-) -mix
heh, what a geek.
Not sure about you, but the only time I spent upside down in trash cans was when I was doing keg-stands.
It's "Vote for Pedro". [/geek]
Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
Being a geek has always been cool. The reason Leo kept his private life so secret was he was getting mad bootay, and he didn't want people trying to step in on his turf.
CS is down as a major because people plan to do crazy shit like give laptops to every kid. We're going to end up with 1 Billion computer programmers on the planet, all earning $3/hr.
That said, we'll probably keep geekin' it up. Not only is it fun, but if she's that big of a BSD fan, we're damn well going to try to get our contributions into the kernel, right?
I have no clue what "Save Pedro" is referring to.
I dunno whether I'm not a geek, since I don't get the reference to supposed geekdom, or whether I really am a geek, since I am too antisocial to recognize a apparently widespread social phenomenon.
Back to conjugating Latin verbs, now...
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
In an information laden world where each day blasts forth gigabytes of meaningful valuable data and results in interesting discourse, this particular topic is so painfully mind numbing that it presents a particular singularity. The geek's discussion of "cool" is about as informational as the letter "e".
Exhibit A:
This discussion occurs on a Friday evening.
Exhibit B:
All items discussed in this article are mainstream, therefore the most targeted responses will utilize mainstream responses.
Exhibit C:
The article trolls the male/female divide issue, a less than original theme.
So I give this particular incarnation of this topic no points for adding to the general quality and content of the information explosion.
What is interesting is the topic of cool vs. geek and the changing of the line that lies between. If we are lucky, it will become asymptotic, everybody will be confused when topics of "cool" and "geek" arise. Perhaps in our lifetime we will see the death of "cool". What would you do if "cool" isn't cool?
First it was the H1B, then it was offshoring. The damage that these two have done to the field can never be recovered. The ironic part is now that so many people are dropping out of school or refusing to go to school for these fields now for these reasons that actually may be a genuine shortage in several years. Combine these with the fact that it's very difficult for an entry to mid level person to get a job without experience in the exact version of a product and you have successfully doomed the IT field in the US.
Too bad the US doesn't have apprentice programs such as they use in Germany.
I think the lack of interest in CS degrees is that a lot of people perceive CS to be nothing more than training monkeys to program, and they see all those jobs being outsourced. Schools need to emphasis the design, project management and other higher-level skill development as well as the deeper understanding that comes with studying CS.
And, of course, all those schools who do nothing more than train monkeys how to program should be offshored.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
VOTE for Pedro
Save FERRIS
!!
Does anyone else find it interesting that whenever a mainstream newsource references /. it does it in a way that makes it seem like a brand new community.
We raise our slide-rules high.
Non-conformity is a wonderful charade we put ourselves through as human beings. Just enjoy what you enjoy and think a bit less about what you call it.
Um, forgive me if this has already been pointed out, but since when does releasing a calendar filled with completely generic, scantily-clad women randomly labelled as "geeks" make the genre cool? If I didn't know any better, I'd venture to say that those calendars were for the benefit of geeks, not comprised of their female counterparts.
So if being a geek has really become cool, why has interest in CS as a major dropped among incoming freshmen?
Because a geek without a job isn't cool... that's just sad.
Joe Coleman
Yea, you fucking heard it. A real fucking geek.
I have a "Vote for Pedro" shirt somewhere in my closet, if that's what you're talking about. :-)
Nobody's gay for Mole-Man.
...13-year-old 'skateboarding' 'punks' who hate AOL, play Halo, Counterstrike, and Madden all weekend, and use the 'song' as the base unit for data storage, then yes geeks are mainstream. I blame the iPod.
They're apparently very proud
No. End of thread.
I don't care HOW many "girls who are geeks" calendars there are out there, as long as there aren't calendars like "dark and mysterious pictures of overweight sweaty guys playing D&D in a basement, while eating Cheetos" or "male engineers with their private parts cleverly hidden a bow made with backup tape ribbons", geekdom is *NOT* mainstream or cool.
read the bunni comic
Yea eat it you fucking geek
Yes, Geek Chic has been a growing fad for at least the last three or four years now. It parallels the growth in the emo/indie rock movement, as this, along with old folks clothing seems to be their main style.
You know its bad when you go to a coffee shop and see people with dark-rimmed glasses with no lenses and dirty scruffy hair listening to their ipods.
Geek chic is just another way to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Please, for all the knowledge-loving geeks out there, don't consider everyone who is a 'dork' to be a 'geek' nor the reverse. While there may be a good correlation between the two, they are certainly not mutually inclusive.
Napoleon Dynamite is a dork. His friend, Pedro, should have had a shirt that said, "I'm with dork."
It's currently funny to be a dork, or dorky, but it's still not cool to be a geek. People can't respect an invisible geek, because they can't recognize him/her. They can only see it when you breathe through your mouth and behave like you knew other people existed, but you'd never actually seen one.
I'm not saying that I am not just a big dork, but I do know many people who possess those attributes that correlate to being socially maladjusted, while not being socially deficient in any obvious way. The best of both worlds: a passion for knowledge and tinkering and science and math combined with social skills and an understanding of how people relate.
In any case, as soon as parents started quoting Napoleon Dynamite, any cool was destroyed. Score one for parents everywhere. This was a role model that generations to come can certainly afford to live without.
antithesis
For the non-geeks. *ahem*
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Her idea of wit is nothing more than an incisive observation humorously phrased and delivered with impeccable timing."
Unless geeks entertain, they will not be mainstream. Sure, Napoleon Dynamite and The 40 Year Old Virgin were mainstream, but only because they entertained people and generated revenue. People could laugh at them without feeling guilty about it. Laughing in the face of the geek sitting across the table speaking techno-babble isn't quite as socially accepted.
I'm in engineering school right now, and this question really doesn't make much sense to me.
Geeks are NOT all the same, and therefore have varying degrees of attractiveness. For example, I have one friend who is extremely bright and who, as a high school senior, did research at Case-Western over the summer about semiconductor design. He's also very outgoing, loves to talk to people, and enjoys non-techie things such as philosophy and English. I consider him a major geek because of his love for and knowledge of Electrical Engineering, but he's very socially capable and has some very attractive qualities.
I have another friend who is a HUGE geek in terms of his raw intelligence. He got into MIT with some scholarship, has a high GPA at the moment despite taking honors classes, and knows tons about electronics. He also is so skilled with the guitar that he almost played professionally. However, his personality sucks, and his personal hygeine is lacking. His room is a mess and smells strongly of odd herbs. He has a superiority complex and feels that he's better than everyone else. He's overweight and revels in his obesity. This makes him quite unattractive.
I think that deep knowledge, understanding, and intelligence is ALWAYS an attractive quality in someone. But that's not the only factor to be considered when discussing the "coolness" of geeks. There are so many different types of geeks that it's IMPOSSIBLE to make a blanket statement about whether or not they're cool or attractive. Bottom line: some are cool, some are not.
Okay, I'll bite -- how is being attractive more 'beneficial to society' than being smart? As I see it, smart people can help solve society's problems, whereas attractive people can -- what -- go to Hollywood in the hopes of acting/modelling, find out there are already more actors/models there than there are jobs for them, and end up waiting tables?
[...] you're still disgusting. And that's the way it should be.
Why is that 'the way it should be'? That sounds less like 'the truth about the world' and more like your personal (rather hateful and bitter) opinion. Or a troll.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
In the past when I was growing up (1980s), a geek was a guy or girl who was particularly obsessed with some unpopular but intellectual activity. It could have been computers. It could have been being on the A/V or stage crews. It could have been D&D. It could have been working in the library. Or it could have been chemistry or physics or astronomy. THAT was, is and always shall be the true geek. In fact geeks were also often synonymous with nerds. Typically geeks and nerds were not usually well liked or at best were given some kind of freak "mascot" status with the popular people.
Flash forward to the looney world of today and geekiness has been redefined. Geeks now have an edge. If they are female, maybe they wrap their slighlty overweight figures in goth clothes instead of the traditional sweater and ill fitting jeans. They use Manic Panic hair dye and shop at Hot Topic where they get their pseudo-fetish garb. They have "attitude" because they now know that the world is their oyster. The guys ditched the glasses for contacts and the pocket protectors for gadgets. They all listen to emo. Or at least, this is what the media wants you to believe.
Many of today's geeks as defined by and in the media (both self professed and knighted) aren't really geeks at all. They're still kids trying to fit in and choosing yet another fashion fad that tries, but fails, to be truly self-deprecating. And the interests of these so-called geeks are no longer unpopular. Video gaming? I think that pretty much knocks out the interest in popular music that used to be the hallmark of teen life. Role playing games? There are lots more people who are into them these days and they have that "edge" that the originals lacked. Graphic Novels? The only thing geeky about that activity is the interaction with the sneering comic book guy jackass who runs the store where they are sold.
Computers? Ahhhh yes. Computers. There are so many people who mistakenly assume that someone who can fix a minor problem or tweak a Windows box is a "computer geek". Ask one of these "geeks" how to tell if they are being scanned via the command prompt and you'd likely get a blank stare. People who can use Windows at even a moderately advanced level are not "geeks". They are simply people who have learned how to use a mainstream appliance. The number of e-mail addresses or IM clients one has does not make them a geek. It's a lot like calling people in the 80s who could actually set their VCR and Microwave oven clocks, "geeks". basic computer usage is no longer a qualifier to the title geek.
Gadgets? One of the BIGGEST mistaken assumptions by the masses and the media is the confusion between a geek and a "gadget guy". It's an easy one to make because most people are bewildered by gadgets and assume that mastery of these devices MUST be a geeky persuit. Of course, they are wrong. Ownership of a large screen television, two cell phones with bluetooth, a PDA, pager and home theater set up do not endow one with "geekiness". Tragically, the gadget guy is simply a conspicuous consumer with nothing better to do than attempt to master these machines and thereby appear "geeky" to the less perceptive. Most gadget guys tend to be office workers with little or not actual technical or scientific background at all. The true geek BUILDS his own A/V gear. He eschews the big box stores like Best Buy and prefers to scour the internet for circuit diagrams for the latest audio amp and then orders the parts to build it from Digikey. Do not think that because you can plug in a brand new SATA or IEEE1384 adapter card that you are a geek. The real geeks you went to school with would laugh their horkly little nasal passages away at the notion that one considers themselves a geek for using a PnP PCI card. No sir... back in the day, it was editing CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT and making sure you had enough free memory in the right spots. Today, as horrible as PnP can be, it's still child's play compared to what REAL geeks were do
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
"You're home on a friday night reading slashdot!!! You're either a geek or married." Or both! (Extra bonus points: I'm working from home tonight too!) My wife is playing Super Tux (and knows who Tux is) because she's already finished Knights of the Old Republic I & II. And I have the last of the New Jedi Order Star Wars books that I'll finish reading tomorrow. Maybe it's cool to be a geek, maybe not -- but either way, it sure is a lot of fun! Many of our friends walk in and see an Item of Geek Paraphenalia (like the star wars books) and suddenly realize that we are, perhaps, just a little geeky. Then we all play a game of Cranium and have a great time. Geeky? Sure! Are we happy? Yup! Do I care if it's cool? Not really.
The result is a large group of poseurs who call themselves geeks but know nothing truly geeky. It happens with lots of subcultures, as a previous poster brought out. It just so happens that the stereotypes of 'geek' that people are capitalizing on are among the least accurate stereotypes around. For awhile it was punk, then grunge, and pop culture is transitioning from nerd to emo. That doesn't mean geek has gone mainstream; I have yet to meat a fellow Linux user here in suburban GA.
By the way, it's "Vote for Pedro", not "Save Pedro".
By the time you calculate the 60-80 hour weeks against the 30K salary, those biomed postdocs are making $10/hour. After spending 7-8 years in grad school.
Accountants really are making money though. Three words: Sarbanes-Oxley compliance!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
People drink Pabst Blue Ribbon when they could actually have beer.
I've been saying that for years. That almost brought tears to my eyes reading it, I laughed so hard. PBR is probably the worst beer in existance other than Camo Lager. Strangely, though, I think the kiddies have all moved on to Milwaukee's Best (the Beast). Tastes pretty much the same. Screw that stuff though; give me an IPA anyday.
Geeks also appreciate the little things in life like having many 1111s in a user ID, or many 000s :-)
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I and the other cool geeks I know basically got a bit older, read about and experimented with "social skills" and was that. Probably we're not the only ones who took this route.
Getting geeks out of high school probably helped a lot. Doing something worthwhile counts for more than posturing. After high school, anyway.
Anyone who was amazed with the potential of the Internet before it really took off had some kind of faculty for predicting the very cutting edge of useful and cool. Whatever those types are looking at now that the mainstream doesn't get will probably shake things up and rock the rest of the world in another 5 - 10 years.
I figure a geek is osmeone who can understand technology rather than use technology.
The "mainstream" geek now is someone who collects "gadgets" or buys alienwares highend system and likes to rattle off whats inside but couldn't actually build it himself.
Perhaps he can install windows or fedora. But he probably can't install gentoo.
He can build a website with dreamweaver, or frontpage, and he knows HTML, but if you gave him VI he wouldn't really know where to start.
The difference between a "mainstream geek" and a real geek, is the real geek understands whats behind what he does. If he doesn't know something he can probably figure it out because he's familiar with the inner workings of somethign familiar.
Mozart vs Brittney Spears is the best analogy I can think of.
So if being a geek has really become cool, why has interest in CS as a major dropped among incoming freshmen and women are still a minority in computer and engineering fields? I'll assume by "geek" you mean "nerd".
Being a nerd and being a CS major aren't mutually inclusive things. You can be a nerd with absolutely no interest in computers, and you can be a CS major without being a nerd. There are all kinds of nerds. Ham radio, model airplanes/vehicles, wrestling fanatics, movies, music, civil war buffs... A nerd can be anyone who pursues virtually any interest to a technical depth that your average person doesn't even dream of. I think being a nerd is all about embracing the scientific method and the vast array of scientific disciplines.
As for why being a nerd has become mainstream, it's simple. People like experts. If you have a question, the person you want answering that question is whoever has the most accurate information to offer you. Being a nerd is popular because the alternative is being mediocre or worse in your field. Being a nerd became mainstream when society realized people like Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs are sitting on top of piles of cash so big they can crush a man. Ask a girl who she wants to be with: the overweight has-been high school football quarterback nursing his 11th beer of the day, or the guy who's got NASA, Microsoft, and the DOD on different lines?
The "Image" of being a geek is now "Cool".
I remember back when I was in High School there were a lot of kids wearing the latest skateboarding fashions. Now I feel the way I did then - "I got the crap kicked out of me for being who I was, and now someone else is popular pretending to be me. WTF?"
carrying an iPOD and blogging doesn't make u a geek...neither does having the latest gadgets and being able to use a computer make u a geek..Technophile.. yes... but not g33k..
Kary Mullis says you suck, fucktard.
Other titles??
I suggest you read Slashdot
Man. You'd have to be one sad, sad bastard to do something like that.
You're so pathetic you attempt to "fashionably" emulate a subculture of people who are stereotyped a being, well, socially pathetic? Congratulations.
... is that the definition of "Geek" has expanded, mostly because of those people mentioned in the summary that like to pretend that they are geeks, and have expanded the definition to fit themselves.
For example, it seems anyone who likes gadgets can call themselves a "Geek", even if those gadgets are simply iPods. People who surf the web a lot and are mostly tech-savvy may call themselves "Geeks". Those who create websites, or edit wikis might call themselves that. People with weak fasion sense might be called "Geeks". People who play video games? Geeks. Etc.
Oh, and by the way: Hitler. End of thread.
Like the blue colar machinist in the '70s everyone wants to be a geek or know one or make movies about them and claim they know one. Who can blaim them? Its a glamourous job.
But excuse me, I have to go test the tensile streangth of the firewall and make sure she can still hold the load. After that I have to crank out about a dozen scripts for the backup server as the old ones are getting old and brittle.
Exciting stuff. I am sure there is a mainstream movie in here someplace...
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
What if the mains were going geekstream? Chickens be damned, I say!
Quit trolling you Slashdot moron!
The Geek Gorgeous calendar is as white as the Augusta Club is male. There are lots and lots of beautiful AND geeky Indian girls who would do any such calendar proud.
And I don't mean the dice-rolling simulationist thing that Wizards of the Coast put out.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The original poster needs to learn the distinction between laughing at, and laughing with. Geeks in pop culture fit into the former category.
Geeks have been mainstream since Weezer.
women are still a minority in computer and engineering fields?>br>
So, fields with mostly men are lame? Why is it ok to just be as offensive as you'd like if it's about men. Why didn't you just say "gah, men suck so bad." If they were cool men, they'd be in a field with women.
There's a "beautiful girl pretending to read a book" in that site.
EXCUSE ME, but reading a book doesn't make you a geek. It just makes or has the potential to make her become an intellectual. Which is very different.
Have girls stopped reading, to the point where the mere act of reading a book turns a girl into some kind of "über-genius-geek goddess"?
Has the world become a massive blob of anti-culture?
Have the people rejected education, culture and morals in favor of consumism so much, that we have to resort to consumism and fashion so they have to think "reading is cool" just because their favorite TV hero(ine) is a geek? Jesus!
What have we done with our educational system?
At least one of the women in those calendars is not real.
There are so many contradictions in their profiles, these people couldn't exist. The one profile goes from hard-core academic to super-industry lowest common denominator fluff. If she was into one, she wouldn't be into the other.
It's always been cool to be a geek, but it depends on your defintion.
Out of the mainstream, intelligent, yeah. Always. Check the old war movies, you've always got the radio guy in some big thing.
Fat, smelly, and unkempt? No, not really popular, not really mainstream. Sorry, but even a geek can go to the gym, shower, brush their teeth and shave every once and awhile.
So, go shower, shave, brush your teeth, lose some weight(if you need to) and go out there to some social situation with non-geeks(bar, church, etc..) and talk to people. Yeah, if you're cool, they'll talk to you. Mainstream means included in the norm, so you gotta go out there and talk to them. The world won't bow down to you, but they'll say Hi if you do.
Also, non-geek topics a plus with them. =) It's great if you can fix their computer, that gets your foot in the door, if you can also talk about whatever, it keeps you there with them.
It may be that geeks just make for "entertaining" material, as far as the public is concerned; sort of like watching live car chases even though there is a 90% chance he'll end up captured. Maybe watching geeks not get any makes other people feel better about themselves. It is like, "I might be a loser, but at least I am not a geek." People loved watching Erkle, but few would want to *be* Erkle. Same with circus clowns.
Table-ized A.I.
Recently I came across a cool article on the geek/nerd definition (by googling for "it differs from"...)i tion
http://portal.wikinerds.org/nerds-and-geeks-defin
There are many ppl out there trying to differentiate between the two "species". Personally I find that earthlink add's definition extremely annoying: "A geek gets it done, while a nerd doesn't", whatever...
This article adds to the discussion of geek vs nerd.
http://www.bustedtees.com/shirts/pedro/male
Although I do have to admit, for those of us guys who only are attracted to geek girls...this is certainly bringing in some fresh blood. The funny thing is, while they want to pretend to be like us, they don't really want to be us. They don't have the same interests that we do, they just have an interest in our subculture. Original geeks flocked together because of their geeky interests, these people are flocking to us now because of the media attention.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
As far as you are concerned.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I think you answered your own question. Geekdom has had an era of impopularity, whereas athleticdom was popular during those days. Now the industry/economy has come to realize that the best muscles reside between the ears, it's a desperate attempt for youth to give in to their natural geekdom, and join the CS-ranks.
The movies, the calendar: they're there because they wánt more people to enlist.
Just my 2 cents.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
antithetical adj.
1. Of, relating to, or marked by antithesis.
2. Being in diametrical opposition. See Synonyms at opposite.
Arrgghh! I introduced my my daughter (6) and wife (much older) to SuperTux and they took to it like whores to crack. Its background music has been the soundtrack of my life for months now.
Napoleon Dynamite is a very funny movie. However, Napoleon is not a geek, he is a friggin retard. You can not argue with this statement; Napoleon defies explanation, other than that of "retard". Some might argue that he is a freak, or perhaps a spaz or goober, though he is most certainly not a geek or nerd, and most likely is a retard, or perhaps even a fruitloop or yo-yo. End of thread.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Well thats good one to compare with geeks. They spend centuries in slavery and persecution and where robbed human status before going mainstream.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
There are differences between a NERD and a GEEK.
If Geeks are fashionable, it's a fad. Nerds on the other hand, are timeless and always in style among those in the know.
I consider myself to be a huge nerd, in everything I do. But lately that I have been applying the same "methods" to other areas that might not be "nerd specific". For example, hitting on women on bars. I've done trial and error, tried to tweak my style to get better results, paying attention to what other people do to be sucessful, trying out new stuff, etc. Isn't that the same that overclockers do? Isn't that the same that (source) hackers do? I think yes. Am I nerd? Yes. Do I restrict myself to "nerd specific" activities, hell no. Is it trendy to be nerd? No, it's trendy to do stuff, your way, with self confidence. That's the key.
please excuse my apathy
It isn't so much that geeks have come into the mainstream now as they're just more prevalent. Considering that a large amount of social life today involves communicating via technology, it's only natural for the mainstream to run into the geeks/nerds--they've been there for the past 20 years.
Geeks run the Internet, and they run most of the technology around people. You can't escape them now, they're more conspicuous than ever, they rule the common modes of communication other than speech, and there is practically no way to avoid interacting with a geek/nerd of some sort if any of your technology is broken (not including bad tech-support lines and the like).
A couple of years ago I went on a career shadowing program that one of the local utility companies offered. I spent the day meeting various programmers and tech related people. The degrees these people held? French Literature, Spanish language, history, among others.
I did meet one guy who held a computer science degree. He also happened the only person I met that day who worked in a cubicle, pretty much everyone else had an office. (There was a group of two or three who shared a largish room/workshop, but at least they had a ceiling and a door.)
Now, I understand that geeks need pride and all that (or we'd all be committing suicide), but I'm getting this odd image of a geek frantically putting up a bunch of "no trespassing" signs on his turf.
- say "fuck it", go for an MBA, and maybe write Open Source code in her spare time
- go country shopping... very possibly, start by looking for foriegn institutions of higher learning
The "mainstreaming of geeks" is basically pop culture adjusting to the idea of "geeks" making serious money... just in time to catch the tail end of the trend. "Geek chic" is bullshit, at the end of the day, it's about making a living.Tech Public Policy stuff
About the time that "Kill Bill" came out, I saw Conan O'Brien interviewing Quentin Tarantino. Two guys, about 40 years old, who are extremely popular and influential in defining pop culture. And *man* were they both geeks, in the bad senses as well as the good. Then I realized, wow, yeah.
It's a unique place filled with geeks alike, who find statements like "dude, i pimped my program", "it has cascading style sheets and it's RSS compliant" while writing a 3rd grade looking Java applet to run in a web browser is just plain funny.
For the record, it's "Vote Pedro", not "Save Pedro".
I wear the badge of geek proudly, as;
A geek is a guy who has everything going for him, but he's just too young. By contrast, a nerd will be a nerd all of his life.
- John Hughes, film director
Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home!
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that geeks are less willing to accept magic than non-geeks. A non-geek who asks how something works will usually be happy if you say magic. A geek won't. Science is what allows us to distinguish magic from engineering, and that is why it is popular with geeks. Whether it's quantum physics, molecular biology, or computer science, the driving force is always the thought 'this doesn't make sense, and I'm not going to be happy with it until it does.' This is often followed by the thought 'I understand this, and it still doesn't make sense. I should probably re-design it.'
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Defintion: Geek:
1) An unfashionable or socially inept person.
[with adj.] A person with an eccetric devotion to a particular interest.
2) A carnival performer who does wild or disgusting acts.
Source: Oxford Dictionary.
Geeks may have come into some power, but they'll never be cool. By definition. Now the association that someone into computers or the internet is a geek is a fallacy. And this is what Business publications particulary (and the people who write for them), and the frat-boy guys who later are the management of your average Joe corporations think. Generally speaking, these guys never were "into computers". And anyone who was (or is) is a geek. Now, online is where the change and the opportunity are, so they need these "geeks". The "geeks" now have power.
And then there are people who are really into something...like movies, art, etc. who self label themselves "movie geek," "art geek," etc. But these people aren't socially akward, by definition. In the past, they would have been called "passionate" or an "afficionado" (Spanish for passionate). I prefer afficionado.
You can be intelligent and you can be into computers, even (gasp) programming (though more rare), and not be a geek. Being a geek has to do with social akwardness. And therefore, by definition, isn't cool.
Personally, I think that anyone with real intelligence and ambition now is learning how to, or starting, a web based venture because that is where ALL the oppurtinity is. And the people who don't understand why, but merely recognize the importance, are the ones who write shitty articles about geeks being cool.
Geeks be damned.
Everybody is about to become a geek - in other words GEEK DOMINATION!
In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep.
I am not one to knock the trades
You know, a skilled tradesman these days will often make more than an IT worker, because there is such a shortage. Six figures, at times. In the north east, anyway.
-Stu
1) I hear people talk about building PCs the way they used to talk about tweaking their hot rods in the 50's and 60's. Heck - I just put together an AMD X2 4400+ with 4 gigs on an ASUS motherboard and can have a 'normal' conversation about it with pretty much anyone. My brother, the most non-technical person I can think of (he is a salesman) asked me "What kind of case did you put it in?". Geek has gone mainstream.
2) A college professor I know from a local user group says that 'typing speed has become macho'. That is, once a thing used to measure secretary pools is now used as bragging rights among teen boys in the context of who can type more words while fragging their opponent in an FPS.
Geeks went mainstream several years ago, when instead of being the character that was picked on, they became either the hero of the film (Jurassic Park, Independence Day), or the character you empathise with (Napolean Dynamite, Office Space, or heck - even Revenge of the Nerds).
-db
I find that visual art geeks, music geeks, etc. tend to be socially accepted, mainly because to be "socially accepted" you have to be SOCIAL. And that means you have to be able to talk about things that interest you. Everyone can discuss 'art' such as music, everyone has an opinion, and I think people find geek's opinions, especially on pop phenomenas, fascinating, because they're so worked out and involved. For example, Chuck Klosterman's books & columns are very popular; he's a quintessential music geek.
On the other hand I think movie geeks are a bit less accepted and more akin to the techie geek label because it's much harder to "get" what someone sees in art movies. Listning to music takes a few minutes or hours, to get a sense of a genre. Enduring a marathon session on Italian neo-realism can take an entire weekend.
Similarly, experiencing with someone a Linux kernel hack or create a Java domain model can take a while, and it's hard to pick up what the person is doing if they're deep in concentration (as the many here who dislike pair programming will attest).
-Stu
Since it's "Vote Pedro", not "Save Pedro".
Um, could it be because people actually want jobs after graduating from college?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Not that it's a bad geek movie, us chem majors (all 6 of us) used to have weekly watchings of it in college...but Pi is definitely the greatest geek movie I've ever seen. Period.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Yes, crazy cats, it's now hip to be geeky. I think that's just groovey, daddy-o!
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -- "Step Right Up", Tom Waits
... to be a geek.
n/t
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
I'm currently in the college search process, and trust me when I say I wanted to become a CS major, but the parentals say no, and have me look into my secondary love instead (that being mathematics). Why? Because it's damn near impossible to find a well-paying job in CS if you're an American anymore; everything's going out to India and China, up with the factory jobs. My godfather also happens to have a master's in CS, and guess what? He's been out of a job since September 11 (significiant since we all live in the NYC area.)
The only jobs really left in CS, in decent supply, are simple jobs at small businesses, not-for-profits, and schools; none of which pay well, or are all that appealing to most CS majors. (I was able to volunteer at a community center maintaining a lab - and even with my limited abilities, I was still better than most of my "technology department" coworkers.)
When I was in school, a geek was a socially marginalized weirdo, and a nerd was an intelligent geek. Note that geek didn't require being smart, just being a loner-type weirdo. Nerds were the overlords of geekdom.
I'm assuming the geeks banded together to break the hegemony of the nerds by inverting the definitions, thus making mere social freakishness more acceptable.
BTW, neither is "cool" or acceptable--check those job postings for traditional nerd/geek jobs (like programmer), and you'll see that most specifically mention and require social and communication skills.
No, the heydey of the malajusted freak is over.
Depends on wh you spend your time with and how snobby you are. I only really got into anime when it became mainstream and now anime is part of my geekiness (I know enough to qualify as an anime geek but not enough for a full-blown otaku), even though there are lots of ungeeky people who share my interest in the topic. There's simplay no reason to become snobby about it.
The same with retrogaming: I'm loosely connected to a community centered around a program (th RPG Maker 2000) that lets you create games similar to the SNES' action adventures. Of course half the people there are running ZSNES, so it's not uncommon to find people who are a bit into old games. The few retrogaming geeks there (usually identified by the fact that they talk about old games for "obscure" platforms like the IBM PC, the Sega Genesis or the Commodore 64) don't mind the fact that the people around them couldn't tell Metal Slug apart from Metal Gear.
Of course there are geek snobs (usually found in IRC channels with names like #linux) but most geeks I know tolerate half-educated people who share their interests. The half-educated folks occasionally get left behind when the geeks go into full geek mode (for example, while walking a Wndows-to-Linux switcher through setting up Ubuntu they suddenly get caught up in a discussion of what's the best packet manager), but they can live with that and we can live with that. I get left behind when the otakus are discussing their favourie seiyuu as well. Turns out that coexistence can be a great thing (and you find out that there are many geeks-wh-aren't-geeks, ie. people who show many signs of geekdom but don't consider themselves geeks).
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
No society can ignore its most competent people for too long. For way too long we've been looking down on the people who are genuily dedicated to what they do. This sounds like a "management" word -- I know. But geek is really a term used for people who love what they do and who are good at it. Naturally they are very competent. This is almost darwinian. If a society persistantly ignores the merit of the most accomplished it is headed for destruction. Maybe we are finally waking up from this nihilism?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
I think there is a fine line between being a geek and a "nerd." Nerds think they are smart, geeks are smart. I see nerds walking around wearing those "There are 10 kind of people in the world..." shirts who know close to or absolutely nothing about computers. Sure they play games, wear geeky clothing and talk like they could be a geek, but when you sit them in front of a computer and tell them to program something they'll start scartching their heads wondering how in the world can you do this.
"So if being a geek has really become cool, why has interest in CS as a major dropped among incoming freshmen"
First of all, being a geek has NOT become cool at the freshman age, or at least where I am. Speaking as a softmore in high school I think I can fairly judge this for people my age. I think one reason it has decreased is the image that the media has made CS savy people. You have to remember that at this age, a kid's image to others is everything. Most kids do not want to be labeled a geeky person, although there are a few who could/do pass as geeks.
I'm so tired of the "geek" fad, its nothing new. Most of us noticed it over a year ago. Since then I've moved to "IT Professional". Your standard "geek" or "wannabe geek" can't keep up with that. :)
Can all fish swim?
No, but Love-shyness is pretty well associated with Aspergers' syndrome.
...most "Farm Workers" meaning family farmers have a 2 or 4-year degree in Agriculture which is a fairly sophisticated program of study. Involves biology, ecology, chemistry, business studies, economics, etc, etc, etc. I know this because I know several farmers (Dairy) and they are quite well-educated people. Their working conditions are atrocious as are their hours. And don't even get me started on their pay. Yes, they generate a lot of revenue, but, by the time they factor out expenses, they end up with like $25,000.00 per year at best. Out of that they have to pay their own health insurance etc. This for caring for a herd of over 400 head of dair cows. Producing the wonderful milk and dairy products we all enjoy.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Are geeks still being called horrible names in schools? Are they still being beaten up and ridiculed? Do they still have to fear for their safety on buses, in locker rooms, and on their way home from school?
If so, geeks have not gone mainstream.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
...you own your own home, but, you let your Mom move in to help you care for your child 'cause you're divorced, but you live in the basement anyway????
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
This is one of those frequent Slashdot articles by someone who's had a personal realization, then goes on to think that their ephiphany is cutting edge thought. In reality, geekdom started melding into mainstream society in the mid-1990s and has been mainstream for at least the last 5 years. You walk into any coffeeshop and see half a dozen people using notebook computers, 50% of which are iBooks or PowerBooks. You hear middle-aged women talking about WiFi configuration in the supermarket. Battlestar Galactica is hugely popular. Linux is written about weekly in the Wall Street Journal and New York Times.
If anything, I think there's a new breed of geek: the person who isn't as introverted as stuck in his or her ways as classic geeks tend to be. And from that point of view, Slashdot is more of an old-geek magnet, something to be chuckled at for it's quaint naiveness, much like Wired.
do the chickens have large talons?
Just cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there.
All I have to say is that if other people can't handle the utter awesomeness that is me in being a geek, then they don't get to know how cool I am. They are the ones missing out so it's their problem.
Maybe, as tech becomes more speciallized, people are going into related majors such as software engineering, or information technology?
I have no idea myself.
Fair enough, but is Aspergers really associated with geekdom? I think that's overreaching. I realize there are some traits that may seem common between the two, but I don't think most geeks are really borderline Aspergers. And yes, I read about the increase in Aspergers in the SF Bay Area during the dot-com bubble. Still, I maintain that Aspergers folks might be more likely to be geeks, but it is not a common trait of geekdom.
Cheers.
This quote tells me all I need to know. "To top it all off, this Salt Lake City native will blow you..." Far out and bitchin'.
When I was a kid only geeks wore devices on their belt.
I wore hame radios and calculators.
The other day I saw a female executive (definately NOT geek) with a camera, blueberry, and cell phone on her belt.
Being psuedo-geek is 'cool' and sells shit. Which is to say, the geek is now a demographic to be marketed to.
Sitting and home and coding or working out physics problems for fun is just as rare as it has always been.
After reading all of this, I'm thinking a few things.
1. Isn't "nerd" the appropriate term to use when you want to refer to a socially-inept but smart individual with possibly poor hygiene or clothing choices? The famous movies weren't called "Revenge of the Geeks" after all. I've always thought that "geek" was intended to be a more positive term used within the community of people who were really into computer and technology. (EG. I've been into computers since I got my hands on a Timex Sinclair 1000 back in the early 80's - but I don't wear pocket protectors and glasses, and I even played guitar in a rock band for several years. So I don't think I fit the definition of a "nerd" at all. What am I supposed to call myself, if I want a quick word defining my primary interest? Geek is the only term that fits.)
2. CS degrees never made much sense to me, because they're primarily "glorified math majors". Fine if you're going to go into the designing of new motherboard or CPUs, I suppose. But for what most "comp. sci" people intend on doing in the workplace after college, I fail to see the relevance. I think an IS/MIS major is much more in line with things for most of us. Unfortunately, back when I was in college in the early 90's, practically nobody offered such a thing as an MIS major. My choices were "data processing" or "comp sci.".
So what, are there not any hot male geeks out there to pose in a calendar?
Parent is damned right! Teens are compelled to go sit for 8 hours in a building where they are ordered around, micromanaged, assigned endless busywork and never paid a thing other than a few strange numbers that wouldn't have any value if they weren't high school students. Think about it, this means that if the compulsory schooling laws were changed high school grades would have extremely little value, because there are always other ways to "show learning". Being a homeschooler, I should know.
To suggest that anyone can talk about art or music to the same degree as those who have spent a long time studying it really belittles the effor that they have put in.
That wasn't my intended suggestion. My suggestion was that anybody can talk about art or music as a general subject. Certainly not to the degree a geek could. But there is some common ground, especially when talking about popular art.
To your examples, a college educated person would at least know who Plato is, and perhaps even Kant (anyone who's taken a 1st or 2nd year Philosophy course). They may not have a lot of depth there, and may not care a lot, but there's at least some way to relate. Yet specialized technical fields are almost completely foreign to average college students. They wouldn't know the slightest thing about CPU scheduling, concurrency management and consistency -- just like the average person doesn't know how to fix their car, or know how to design an airplane, construct a building, or create new polymers.
I think this is mainly because the former are relatively general pursuits that apply to all humans and the latter are relatively specialized. It's easier to socialize when there is common ground.
-Stu
Maybe it's just me, but all the girls in the geek calendar are ugly. Although I suppose they are still better than the average /.er's hairy palms.
.
And I think the rest of you are a bunch of Uncle Tom type loosers to have "adopted" the words yourselves.
When I was young these were words used to denigrate me, make me feel like less of a human being. When other people who would not use those terms to describe themselves - use those terms to describe others - it is NOT complimentary. It is "ooooh look at that strange stupid silly ugly cute thing." It's not quite as vindictivly used as when they were young and immature, but they might as well be saying "OOOH LOOK AT THAT FAT CHICK".
I am not a strange animal to be leered at, made fun of, or ostracised. I am a human being capable of doing some things that most people are not as comfortable doing - and that's it.
I'm a techie. I'm not just another human being, I'm better than they are. But I'm not going to hold it against them. So life didn't deal them the brains or experience to deal with technical things. Big deal.
.
I had to look it up; it's a reality show and on broadcast TV, so I'd never heard of it.
What bugs me about the show's apparent premise is the idea that the two were somehow on equal footing, that they needed to learn from each other.
Yes, the geek may know some technical jargon the "beauties" in the show have, but when push comes to shove these women have tits^Wsocial skills and ultimatley they don't need to know this stuff. If ever a technical problem crops up for one of these women, guys will magically show up out of the woodwork to fix their problem for them, often without the woman even having to ask. Who needs know-how when you have lackeys? Guys want to be around these women.
On the other hand, often other geeks don't want to be around geeks. The only reasons a woman talks to a geek are:
Does this show suddenly make it "cool" to be a geek? At best, it just shows us as possibly being more useful than originally thought.
Geeks are usually looking for some sort of human companionship. The women they seem to have selected want their VCRs to stop blinking 12:00. Not exactly equal goals, in my opinion.
(Me, bitter? Nah!)
Geeks always have been mainstream. Often annoying, but still mainstream.
At least, the one's with an income.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
A geek is a nerd with social skills!
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
You're not better than them.
I think one of the mainstays of true geekdom is that one cannot help being a geek at any given instant. I'm a computer tech major, and at 6:00 on a Saturday I'm sitting in my room coding a sudoku solver while replying to yesterday's topics. In my living room, 3 roommates are watching Episode 3, waiting to play the Battlefield 2 Demo that came with it. Thinking back to my high school days, tonight would have consisted of a LAN party in my basement, a crave case, and the 2 liter challenge. (First person to drink 2 liters of soda gets a dollar from everyone and first person to pee gives everyone a dollar.) Souls would be calibur'd, stars crafted, and dexterity checks rolled. Girls would be as exotic as Yen and Euros. Come tonight, however, we are going to be raucous college students: partying, drinking, socializing. It appears to me that geekdom can be defined by a lack of balance and/or concern between establishing a social life and a hobby. The prerequisite of the hobby being it is shared by a minority of people in the world and often involves intellectual pursuits as opposed to athletic. It is also your entire life, as you are a social miscreant. So am I still a geek? Sometimes. Nothing could make me happier than being alone this afternoon coding. Tonight, I won't even think about recursion. Is it cool to be a geek? Hell no its not. Its also not cool to be booze-swilling frat boy day in and day out either. Is it cool to be multifaceted human capable of both social interaction and intellectual pursuits? Could be.
I have been a geek all my life, coding since 5th grade and presiding over my high school's computer club for the past few years.
I became interested in comptuers before the dot-com era hype, and took advantage of it by doing webdesign, offering hosting, and selling web advertising for the past 6 or so years.
I've read Slashdot daily for years (it's a dirty habit my fingers tend to do every time I open up a web browser) and I have read story after story about crappy positions at tech companies where the programmers are the dumb saps who get treated like machines themselves. I hear about how there are too many people going into tech, and I've met more than my fair share of ridiculously computer science-talented geeks like me who are now out of a job, some with big families to support.
I'm applying to college for enrollment next Fall, and I've decided not to go the computer science route. I'm looking for schools with some sort of a computer science program, so I can take some classes, but I'm going to be looking elsewhere for a major.
The best opportunities in the tech industry aren't necessarily given to the guys who can code the best the fastest. I've seen the sweet jobs go to the guys who are creative and pursue their own tech interests. I'm going to create opportunities first, and worry about how to write a C compiler when the need arises.
You know poor geeks only...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Did they sign a contract? It says how many hours you are payed to work.
If you have to put extra hours on ocassions then any decent company will compensate you or give you time in lieu.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Person which is more interested in solving equation than watching brain-dead tv-show is geek. Problem is they tend to loose ability for communication and socialisation, so people consider them weird, in the end they don't even care for their "look", because they don't have anyone caring about that.
It is a price of being on the front of humanity's knowledge or practical know-how. You understand complex stuff around yourselves so others can enjoy the fruits.
Best way to get out of it is to find a girl (a normal one), that change brings you back to normal life, in case that she also isn't a hard-core geek and cares if you behave like normal person.
I quote...
It seems to me that you are assuming that because of how the word was used to make you feel less valuable as a human being, that you must reciprocate in kind, by taking it that people that would adopt the word as a badge of honor should also be made to feel less valuable as human beings, and you accomplish this end by resorting to flat out insulting us all and calling us "Uncle Tom type losers".Guess what?
It doesn't work that way.
And in fact it makes you no better than the people that treated that you the way they did.
--
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
That movie in no way portrayed geeks as cool. He only became cool when he started giving up his geek accoutrements and lifestyle. That was only one of the things that made the movie so disgusting.
You dont talk about it to the non-geeks, unless you want to see someone sitting in a state of confusion. Sometimes thats fun though. :D I cant handle the people that ask me if Im a geek or not, or what happens when they find out me and worse half are both geeks, just need to leave me alone and let me get back to some gaming. :)
It's cool to be a geek in the same way that suburban hip-hop kids find it cool to 'be ghetto'.
What these kids don't realize though, is that yes, a hooptie is cool, but no it's not at all cool to actually find your car up on blocks on night.
The same holds true for pretending to be a geek. Sure it's cool to sport the geek look, but no, it's not at all cool to spend Saturday night tweaking your Stage 1 Gentoo install, or rebuilding that crashed W2k3 server.
that your biggest problem here is that you are asking slashdotters if it is cool or not
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.