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MADD Targets GTA IV Over Drunk Driving Scene
eldavojohn writes "The watch-dog group Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) has set its sights on the rating of GTA IV, primarily because a player can drive drunk in the game. MADD released a statement saying that 'Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.' MADD also is asking Rockstar Games to consider removing GTA IV from distribution 'out of respect for the millions of victims/survivors of drunk driving.' Rockstar replied to MADD by saying 'we have a great deal of respect for MADD's mission, but we believe the mature audience for "Grand Theft Auto IV" is more than sophisticated enough to understand the game's content.' As expected, Jack Thompson is making his usual attention-whoring remarks by comparing GTA IV to the polio virus."
Sincerely,
Everyone
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
Awesome, you can shoot cops in the head in the game, but drink and drive? Fuck that!!!
"a violent crime [that] is also 100 percent preventable." thanks, welcome to the world of grand theft auto.
The whole point of video games is to do things that you couldn't possibly do in real life safely. In my opinion, MADD should be ENCOURAGING people to drive drunk in GTA IV, using this logic:
"See how much harder and more dangerous it is to drive drunk? And this is just in a video game...imagine what would happen if you did it in real life."
Living With a Nerd
MADD condones drive-bys as long as you're sober?
But I'm a member of Drunks Against Mad Mothers!
Because the drugs and guns and carjackings aren't choices that are violent crimes right? This is stupid. This is also coming from the worthless group that lobbied to allow the federal government to extort money from the states if they didn't raise the drinking age. Feds collect income tax from state residents, then refuse to give the money back unless the state (who is supposed to be the final authority within its own borders) complies with what the feds want them to do. So screw them, I only hope that one day these people will shut the hell up.
Don't mistake me, I think they have a good cause, they are just a worthless bunch of whiners. For example, I think stopping all abortions would be a wonderful cause, but doing it through a massive expansion of education and adoption is a far better way than parading around with dead fetus signs, mailing plastic fetuses, making it illegal, or any of the other abhorrent things the anti-abortionists do.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
When your character is able to get drunk and discovers that he DRIVES LIKE SHIT!
I remember the drunk mission in Vice City. Man, that was HARD!
Test your net with Netalyzr
"Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable." Yes, but killing pedestrians, cops, other motorists, and doing swan dives out your windshield @ 80mph when sober is just fine in the game--that's all unavoidable!
I'll bet MADD really wouldn't have liked how I spent last Friday night.
Have you ever driven so drunk that you have to cover one eye to keep from seeing double?
Don't these fascists have anything better to do? I am not a fan of GTA, but I still think this is ridiculous. Is MADD that desperate to remain relevant?
I write sci-fi for metalheads
Has anyone ever noticed that anytime something is labeled "Adult" or "Mature", it is almost inevitably juvenile?
Sure the killing and running people over is fine....But drunk driving oh hell no!
Also have you tried to drive drunk in the game? It's not even possible...You would think that would set a good example.
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
It's rated M for a reason. There are things in the game that might not be good for kids, fine, don't let them play it. I doubt that a mature player's outlook on drunk driving will suddenly change after playing a video game.
We're gonna drink, we're gonna drive, and we're gonna pull it off. Because we do it every single fuckin' night.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
I wonder how many of those MADD crazies saw 40 Year Old Virgin. They sure made a joke out of drunk driving, and I never saw the movie generate this kind of negative publicity.
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So, if you are virtually drunk in the game, do your reactions get slower, do you crash more, and when you try to shoot the cops, do you miss?
If so, MADD should applaud this game, as it shows why you shouldn't be drunk. On the other hand, if when you get drunk there are no consequences, then they can complain.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
"Nothing like drinkin and drivin."
Seriously though.... usual fud. I like rockstar's reply.
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone. "I wonder where Rob got the plutonium" is better than most get.
Let me get my shovel. I'll start digging while you find Mr. Butler.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
That's funny last night I was thinking the exact opposite of what the MADD organization came up with. I mean the game tells you look this is NOT safe you really should get a taxi. And I not actually knowing how to hail a taxi yet decided to risk it. Sure enough it was a BIG mistake. The car was insanely hard to control I got within viewing distance of one patrolling policeman and he called in a ton of them to put me out of commission. I think Rockstar came through in this virtual world with a true to life scenario showing that drunk driving is not the way to go. I was thinking the whole time...next time I will take the cab this is crazy! What a waste of my time as I had not saved the game recently!
... they should have pulled GTA3 out of respect to the families of people who were chased down like dogs on the street and chopped to bits with a chain saw.
Personally, the game is too unpleasant for me. I have GTA3 and play it occasionally, but found it to be a little too gratuitous for even my leathery brain. And I can certainly see how people would object to the drunk driving aspect of it (if nothing else, it doesn't seem like it would be crucial to the plot, and therefore seems to be added for shock value rather than gameplay).
But man, if there was ever an example of the slippery slope argument, this would be it.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
It's a way of life. Goddamn dipsoaurigaeophobic bigots
If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
And, as usual, Slashdot is helping him get even more attention. I want to go on record here and now asking Slashdot to pull this story, out of respect for all of the attention-whoring victims that this jerk has already affected.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
That was a pretty badass response from Rockstar.
All of these organizations try to hit YOUR hot buttons to elicit an emotional response, garner attention AND increase donations. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop paying attention and stop PAYING them. They will eventually go away when their funds dwindle. When groups like these go away (and I include environmental extreme groups), we can begin to have a more effective dialogue about the real issues.
Surely MADD must realize that by going public like this Rockstar gets a ton of free high-profile publicity. Was nobody at MADD aware of GTA III and it's free publicity from various advocacy groups?
There's drunk driving in movies too. Does this mean we should ban movies as well? I don't see them complaining about the movies.
I hadn't had a good laugh in a while. Grand Theft Auto IV vs. Polio is a good one.
Next could you evaluate Mohammad Ali versus Anti-lock brakes for us?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
As an academian, which rhymes with comedian (think about it), that has played that scene, I am appalled by..... MADD. While I will never drive when drunk due to the death of a couple of friends right out of high school, I have played many games with a glass of glenmorangie sherry cask, including driving games. I have always worried about some idiot who thinks they can drive PGR while drunk translates to being able to operate a real car. The trying to drive drunk in GTA is very hard and made me think, 'there is NO way I will get behind the wheel drunk.' I think people need to get over themselves and understand the game designer's vision when making that scene.
In God we trust, all others require data.
After playing GTA4 last night, I totally saw this coming after playing the part where you get drunk with Roman and have to stumble back to your (any) car. It's actually harder to walk than it is to drive, and you in fact sober up on the way, magically, but it is in fact somewhat harder to drive.
Having said that, it's completely asinine that anyone would seriously think this encourages drunk driving, any more than it encourages stabbing people or jumping off of a building, or running from the police, or....... you get the idea, I wish those old bags would too.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
It's like they actually *planned* this.
Rockstar's response is right on the money: adults should be able to distinguish between entertainment/fantasy/fiction (where murder may be depicted, or drunk driving may be a game) and reality (where these things are illegal and unethical). Adults who cannot make those distinctions are a danger to society (regardless of what video games are on the market).
They don't make you drive drunk in the game. They give you a choice. When you get in the car, the character even says he should get a cab instead, it is hard to drive and the cops are all over you. I thought they did a good job of discouraging you from driving like that.
...from an organization with a noble cause to a right-wing, Prohibitionist, Evangelical, whiny group that would desire a socialist nanny-state with breathalyzers in every car? I mean, sheeeesh!!!
Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
> Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.
It is, and RockStar even makes that clear, when the first Drunk Driving Mission occurs.
After you stumble out of the bar, the game pops up a note telling you that you are drunk, and maybe you should think about taking a cab home (which you can do in the game).
If you decide to break the law, and not take a cab, the police are automatically notified and after you (unlike real life where they most likely won't notice until you break another law).
I'm just waiting for then Euro-ENCAP or the US equivalent to complain that the Crashing of the cars is not realistic enough. That people can't just walk away from flying head first through a wind shield after hitting a cop car at 100Mph... That you can't use a car to bash 20 - 30 cars into pedestrians and still be able to drive it away.. Or something just as stupid....
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
1. Imbibe alcoholic drink of choice until plastered.
2. Put driving game of choice in console (or have non-inebriated person do it for you).
3. Play game.
This works just as well with GTA IV (or Vice City) as with Mario Kart.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
If I become intoxicated and play a driving game like Need For Speed would that be disrespectful too? To be safe I should just stick to playing intoxicated Halo 3..
"Contains content that is considered unsuitable for children under the age of 17."
I'm 32. I drink. I drive. I don't combine the two in real life, but I do in GTA IV.
Why shouldn't I be able to play this game? It let's me be very naughty without risk to myself or anyone else. What's the problem here?
As in interesting side note, I'm totally uninterested in lap dances in real life, but I think they're really cool in the game. I think these things are related. In real life I'm concerned for the other people involved. In the game they're all virtual.
-Peter
Seriously, friends don't let friends play video games drunk. Stay in school.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
MADD's founder broke with the group in the 1980s:
... I didn't start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving."
MADD founder Candy Lightner broke ties with the group in the 1980s. In 2002, she told the Washington Times: "[MADD] has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I had ever wanted or envisioned
MADD is a bunch of nutcases that want ANY amount of drinking to be illegal. If we let these special intrest groups take our freedoms away, one by one, we will no longer be a free people. Our founding fathers would be ashamed.
Games are just that - games. They are a convenient way to explain what would otherwise be called bad parenting.
-ted
Maybe someone should tell MADD that they would probably have better luck getting their message out if they didn't take positions that are somewhere between sophomoric and insane.
If they really think that people are so completely unable to distinguish games from reality then they should understand that it means that people are so stupid that they can't be educated to stop drinking and driving anyway.
MADD has frequently championed limit after limit after limit on drinking rights. That's why, quite frankly, I could care less what they have to say because they've used up all of their political capital between advancing authoritarian laws and practices, and acting like having lost a child gives you some sort of "moral credibility or authority" on drunk driving.
I think the average GTA player realizes that pretty much nothing in GTA is something they should emulate in real life. Considering the consequences for drunk driving in many jurisdictions, this is just shameless self-promotion on MADD's part.
You can walk home in GTA IV- nothing is forcing you to take a car. Unless you are walking through a dangerous neighborhood, this is usually the best bet. I believe you can also call a cab (although I haven't done that yet.)
I wonder whether the next Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal tool will address this issue...
http://www.autoworld.com/news/Dodge/Neon_DD.htm
"Chrysler has found a safe way to demonstrate this dangerous situation to teen drivers with the Neon Drunk Driving Simulator, a specially equipped Dodge/Plymouth Neon that mimics the effects of driving after drinking alcohol.
Sponsored by Chrysler Corporation, Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), the U.S. Department of Transportation, the National Association of Broadcasters and local Chrysler Corporation dealers, the Neon Drunk Driving Simulator will travel to more than 250 schools. The vehicle has made more than 2,100 public appearances in more than 200 cities since the program began in 1988. To date, over 750,000 people have tried the Simulator.
So... it's OK to let people experience the negative effects of drunk driving in a real car, but in the safety of your own living room? NEVER!!!!
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
grand theft auto iv versus polio
It appears one of them gets their ass handed to them.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I was arrested for drunk driving in GTA4 already. A couple hours after I started playing my cousin wanted to go out drinking. Afterwards, the game warned me to get a cab, but I didn't listen. I got right back on my motorcycle (which I had parked on the sidewalk). Driving drunk actually wasn't that difficult -- I went slower so I wasn't wiping out all the time (note that on the way there I missed a turn and wound up trying to climb a wall, causing me and my cousin to fall off and ragdoll on the planter... oh, and I'd probably broken most traffic laws on the way there, including speeding, running red lights, reckless endangermant, vehicular homicide, leaving the scene of an accident, etc.). For some reason the cops could tell I was drunk and started chasing me as soon as they saw me. I couldn't get away or even shoot accurately. It was bad because I lost my gun and some money. Let this be a lesson to all of you.
BigKahuna
MADD's request, paraphrased:
"Please stop selling your flagship product in which you have invested a great deal of time and resources."
I am pretty sure they didn't actually expect Rock Star to comply...the request is clearly unreasonable. And while I agree that drunk driving in real life is a serious problem and should be resisted...this stunt has made me lose respect for MADD.
You are fucking retarded. You can kill people with guns in this game, as you can in innumerable other video games. That is also a violent crime that is 100% preventable. Apparently simulated murder is ok for 17 year olds, but you have to be 18 to simulate drunk driving.
Remember, this is the same group of self-righteous soccer moms that got the Federal government to hold highway money hostage to get states to raise the drinking age to 21. Clearly logic is not their strong suit.
Well, they should also remove murder, carjacking, and prostitution out of respect for those victims as well.
;)
Just kidding. We all know that prostitution is a victimless crime.
"Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke," MADD said in a statement released Tuesday. "Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable."
Right and like war, gun fights, etc. are jokes? Yet they're portrayed in movies and games. Violent crime? Give me a break. By that logic so is jaywalking. Can they both lead to violent accidents but they're not of themselves violent.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I'd prefer it if people stopped trying to defend the game, because honestly it comes off as a bit ridiculous. The game is extremely violent and about engaging in illegal activities.
Why should we have to defend the game? I wish someone would just come out and publicly state, "Yes, the game is loaded with questionable subject matter. So what? I enjoy playing that kind of game, what right do you have to prevent me from doing so?"
To be honest, and I can't help but wonder if I'm the only person who feels this way, but I think GTA 4 has been getting far more attention than it deserves. The way reviewers describe the game I'm left with the impression this is the best game ever. Nevermind that it essentially follows the same formula as the last several GTA games. And there have been quite a few other games that have provided a more complete open-sandbox experience than has GTA4, Morrowind, Oblivion, Shenmue and most MMOs to name a few.
Reading various blogs, I feel like the reaction to GTA4 is similar to kids learning their first swear or discovering a porn magazine. Many gamers say they want mature themes in their games but then seem to react immaturely when they get it. Then there's the whole thug/gangster appeal of the game. The thug has become the anti-establishment rebel of our time, at least in American culture. Except that the thug doesn't actually stand for anything.
I'm sure this will elicit quite the zealous response from the game's fans. The game is fun, without a doubt, but I just don't think it's worthy of the praise and attention it's gotten.
The drunk driving scenes didn't seem so bad to me, then again I was drunk.
Because driving drunk is so much worse than killing people with guns, running them over with stolen cars, and becoming a crime lord.
Rockstar should make a fucking "Drunk Driving Expansion" which involves consuming mass amounts of liquor, and scoring points by running down innocents. Extra points for single Christian moms.
"Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable." Now I haven't played GTA IV but I'm ready to bet that the game has more content about murder than drunk driving. I guess they're fine with people "joking" about shooting off people's limbs and evading police officers. C'mon MADD if you're going to rip on GTA at least find something a bit more sensible than a car moving with blurred vision... With that mentality then maybe WoW should remove the alcoholic beverages from their game cause it's encouraging the minors that play to drink... or even worse... drinking and flying... I sure hope pilots don't play WoW...
Who didn't see this one coming? Lets not get so upset about it, because in the end, nothing will happen. This game is clearly designed for adults - its only been sold to adults - its content isn't any worse then that of movies that are currently being released (actually, in most cases, the content is better). Let them have their say - nobody is listening anyway.
They have no problem with politicians driving drunk, but they want to bitch about pretending to drive drunk in a video game?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
...ever since the founder of a MADD chapter had to resign over a DUI. But the simple truth is that they are not anti-drunk-driving, they are a temperance union. MADD's founder is actually disgusted with where the group has gone as a result.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
(Drivers against mad mothers). Get your membership today!
Do you think it's an accident? The makers of the GTA series are using the same schtick that many musicians with "explicit" lyrics or directors of "controversial films" use -- Any publicity is good publicity! They know that the more people they piss off, the more free publicity this game gets on the news and websites, the more people talk about it, the more people think about it, and the more will buy it.
It's all about the money, baby!
I don't get the hellraising about it. It's just like doing it in real life, it's a choice thing. I did one of the dates and came out plastered, realized I couldn't walk worth a damn, and just walked the woman back to her house because I didn't want to have to deal with driving like that.
Dear MADD,
There can only be one solution, legalize marijuana.
Love,
HIGH
I applaud MADD and Jack Thompson for taking a stand. These types of games are dangerous and must not be allowed to exist. There are proven links between violent video games and the massacres that occur in our schools, yet our lawmakers refuse to listen. We, as good citizens and good parents MUST make a stand.
In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
Drunks Against MADD Mothers
Any joiners?
Please mod parent up.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
So what. Why does anyone pay attention to MADD? They have many times demonstrated they are out of their minds, so why do people continue to care what they have to say?
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
I occasionally fly while drunk in WoW, should that be banned as well?
-Darkshadow (There was a thing called Heaven; but all the same they used to drink enormous quantities of alcohol.)
This is BS. After you leave the bar drunk, the game actually says "You should probably take a cab"
As a teenager I played hours upon hours of Mario Kart while drinking craptacular beer (what can I say I was a teenager). I was so horrible at it in the wee hours of the morning, that I was (and still am) easily convinced that operating a real motor vehicle in such a condition is foolish at best. I say let the people play and learn how hard it is to drive when: you have slower reaction times, you can't judge your speed, you confuse left and right, and finally the two kickers, you are seeing double and the world is spinning in circles.
I think this would bring value, just like the ohnoitsroland tag does.
When I was a young twenty something, bombarded by numerous messages about the horrors of drunk driving, my friends and I would go to the pub. There, they had a machine which measured your breath, and at the end of the night, we would hand the keys over to the guy who was drunkest and make him drive us all home. It was pretty dumb, but you just don't think about stuff like that when you are younger...since then I've had a few friends get killed either themselves DUI or by someone else DUI, and now, it all seems so much more horrific. But you feel invincible when you are young...
This is my sig.
Actually, just the slash in the closing tag.
I say this because, its virtually impossible to even walk, let alone drive. And if you are drunk in the game, the police busts in a matter of seconds. If anything, GTA is a case against drunk driving.
And Mario teaches kids to do mushrooms. Ban Mario!
And Hungry, Hungry Hippos teaches kids to be gluttons. Ban hippos!
And tag teaches kids to ignore personal space and that assault is good. Ban tag!
And that's not even bringing up books. Oh, the crazy ideas Dr. Seuss is subliminally slipping into our children's heads!
But GTA IV IS a game. If your children do not understand the difference between a video game and real life then your children have serious issues to be dealt with.
Furthermore: a more effective article title would have been: "Whiny Special Interest Group Complains About Latest Video Game Because No One Pays Attention To Them."
At least it would be more realistic then. We all know that they're just doing it as a public stunt.
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
I played GTA IV. Now I'm in an iron lung.
"MADD released a statement saying that 'Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. "
Maybe Rockstar should release a statement saying that 'GTA IV IS a video game, and is an amusement.'
Hey MADD - did you see the word game in the description 'video game' on the box? Did you really think that tiny box included real alcohol and a real car? I am all for reducing drunk driving, but that being the case MADD should be doing things to actually reduce real drunk driving and stop wasting their time on this non-issue.
"But this one goes to 11!"
They should no longer be allowed to depict drunk driving in PSAs on TV out of respect for the victims of DUI fatalities according to their own logic.
Great, now we're going to be hearing about how one special interest group or another has such-and-such problem with GTAIV for the next year. And it's all, unfortunately, going to qualify as news (for nerds).
You know if it wasn't for all the people protesting every new version of GTA I would never has known it was coming out. I am not a big gammer so I am not up on all the releases. But Heck GTA is getting free advertising everywhere and from the pockets of people who are trying to stop it. Without all the protest the company would need to put a bunch more advertising dollars to promote the game. Good deal.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It's shocking news that a player character engages in illegal activity in GTA IV. Oh wait, not news, the other thing.
What point are they trying to make by reminding people that drunk driving is a "choice" and a "violent crime". The core of GTA is giving people the choice to commit violent crimes - and that is a positive thing for an adult oriented game. A Seasame Street environment is lacking in drama, pathos, etc. However, GTA's failing is that it doesn't go far if you choose NOT to commit violent crimes. The open-endedness and freedom the series is famed for is somewhat of an illusion, as there are no game systems or plot devices to steer you towards anything other than doing gopher tasks for street gangs, mafiosos, and assorted drug dealers. There are plenty of other roles the game could cast you in that would still support a story of political corruption and car chases in an urban environment.
For great justice.
I hate to say this, but MADD is an organization that complains but often has no idea of what it really wants. Some years back they pushed to have free pour taken out of the bars in my state and replaced with mini bottles. They assumed that with the higher taxation people would drink less and that bartenders could be more easily charged with selling alcohol to someone under the influence. Of course it had the opposite effect since the mini bottle only guaranteed drinkers 1.7 ounce in every drink. So when the number of DUIs rose they went out, picketed, signed petitions, cried on television and had the demon mini bottled removed.
I'm not saying I have anything against their motives, but they often tend to put the histrionics before rational thought.
I wasn't gonna ever drive drunk before, but now that I saw it in GTA IV, I think it looks pretty goddamned fun and I think I'll try it this weekend!! Because I do EVERYTHING I see in videogames...
We have read your request to "consider removing GTA IV from distribution 'out of respect for the millions of victims/survivors of drunk driving.'" Please get in line behind Jack Thompson, ESRB, the families of Aaron Hamel and Kimberly Bede, and thousands of other people asking the same request.
Thanks,
Rockstar Games
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Computer GAME != Real Life.
MOVIE != Real Life.
FICTION BOOK != Real Life.
Regards,
Common Sense.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
I was playing GTA IV last night and took "my cousin" to a local bar to hang out. Watching two virtual russians stumble around plastered was quite possibly the funniest scene in the game (so far). I could barely control my character and he was tripping over his cousin while they were both laughing and mumbling. The scene was simply great.
Hailing a taxi (well trying to at least) got random incomprehensible shouting as my pretend character and his cousin stumbled in the streets of Libery City. Finally after 3-5 minutes the pretend character I was controling was "sober" enough to actually drive a car. So after 10 attempts to jack a car I finally managed.
Driving now was a horrid affair. The car was very unstable and hard to control. A slight left would smash my character into the walls, lamp post, pedestrians... The bar, silly me was well across town so it was a huge challenge to navigate there. But that's not all...
COPS, POLICE, 50... would see my pretend characters virtual drunken ass driving and give chase. Yes, even in a pretend game drunk driving was illegal and had I gotten caught served a penalty. Luckily It is only 1 star and easy to evade even at the slow drunken pace.
My assumption is that MADD had only caught wind of the drunk driving in GTA and didn't actually witness it. Had they experience the same scene i had, they'd know that while funny as all heck, there were penalties.
Now... My mother had been an alcoholic in my youthful years. She loved to be out all night at bars drinking her life away. On a school night when I was 8 she was out with her friends drinking till 2am. Yes that is a horrid act in it's own right leaving a kid in the car to drink but that is not the case to prove only back ground... Well her Beau of the time was going to drive us home, her more sober friend offered me a ride and somehow I refused and stupidly allowed me to ride with my mother and her drunken boyfriend who was driving.
Well the car didnt get far before hitting a stone wall, flipping 3-4 times and landing upside down in someone's yard. I woke up in her friend's car. I suffered a broken tibia and elbow and got to spend christmas in a wheelcheer. She suffered most of her life with a bum hip until a recent replacement.
Long story short my mother smartened up and will never get into a car after drinking, nor with anyone who has drunkin. I would qualify myself as one of MADD's statistics. One of the "Millionas of people" who have suffered drunk driving trauma in their life. While no life was lost it is still traumatic.
Speaking on my behalf I found the GTA IV drunk scenes hilarious. I found it to be a fun and refreshing challenge to an ever increasing stagnating market. I love the game and have played every GTA released so far. I've yet in real life to drive drunk, shoot cops, run over people, jack a car, pick up use and shoot hoes, deal drugs, participate in a gang war, drive by shooting, break an enter, steal and save someone from a burning fire and do unique stunts. Though I've managed to do all that and more playing GTA...
Jack Thompson needs to get a real education and job. MADD needs to stop speaking for me and quite honestly STFU. MADD served their purpose and needs to vanish. THey got draconian laws passed. what more do they want? "Driving while buzzed" now? What's next "Smelling Alcohol before driving is bad and will get you tossed in jail and lost license for 10 years"?
What I would like to know is how much of MADD's money comes from government agencies.
Now I have not played the game, nor do I need to, to come to this decision. the whole GTA franchise should be banned from the industry. People say that people are not influenced by video games. that is total BS. People are influenced by everything around them. Sure a mature audience is more capable of dividing fact from fantasy but there is a good deal of immature gamers who will play this game and they will be influenced by it. It has already happened here in the SWFL area. a 10yr old kid stole his grandmas car because he wanted to impress his friend "by doing some hood rat stuff" and he got the idea from GTA4 because stealing a car, was fun. Flame On!
If you want to suggest that showing drunk driving is WRONG, aren't you suggesting that all the other reprehensible behavior in the game is ok, somehow?
Why can't a game be about a BAD PERSON doing BAD things (incl drunk driving).
I think the more important question is how dangerous is it for us to BE and IDENTIFY with the bad guys.
What I've always hoped for is that someone would create a mod/virus that infects any GTA game and causes the player to be the target of vengeance by their previous victims who are now empowered with serious firepower. As you "succeed" in the game, you acquire more deadly enemies, made up of characters you thought it was safe to abuse (hookers etc) until it's impossible for you to live.
If anyone would care to code and release the "GTA Vigilante Justice Virus", I think a lot of us would cheer.
Membership in MADD is not a game, and it is not a joke. Membership in MADD is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable. MADD is a domestic enemy of the Constitution of the United States of America. (1) MADD demands that cars be towed and impounded before trials, and as a part of "civil forfeiture." This demand that people be deprived of property without due process in violation of the 8th and 14th amendments. (2) MADD demands searches without warrants, including guestapo-style "checkpoints" in violation of the 4th amendments. (3) MADD uses tax payer money to demand changes to laws, drowning out my voice, in violation of the 1st amendment. I demand the execution of every MADD member for crimes against the Constitution of the United States of America. Andy Out!
Interesting, MADD wants Take-Two to stop selling GTA, "out of respect for the millions of victims/survivors of drunk driving."
Hmm. I can't say that I've been a victim of drunk driving, but I would say that I would be insulted by this statement if I was. This statement is, by far, the most narcissistic, media whoring, attention grabber MADD could use. Yes, let's equate the thousands upon thousands of people's anguish as victims of drunk driving WITH A FAKE VIDEO GAME! There's nothing that says we care, by attacking a VIDEO GAME than going after the real problem; lobbying local and state governments to be harsher on actual drunk drivers.
This kind of shit is becoming a trend and it's getting annoying.
http://www.allometry.com
I pity all these people that fail to tell the difference between a game and reality, I really do.
Biomech
why dddont you just shaddup. hic.
DAMM (Drunks Against Mad Mothers) will have a responding press release tomorrow, following tonights meeting in the pub.
Blazing Spiders
I represent an opposing group called DAMM it stands for Drunks Against Madd Mothers I completely embrace and applaud GTA for adding this feature and I cannot wait to use it myself.
... mugging, shooting, armed robbery, theft, running from the cops, etc is all a game - but DUI is not. glad we got that one sorted.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
They had a good cause, they got what they wanted. Logically, It's time to close up shop; However there in it for the power now.
... perhaps "DAMM" (Drunks Against Mad Mothers).
... raising the drinking age had more to do with controlling what under-21s did in their spare time than it ever did reducing drunk driving incidents.
So to counter-act them, sign up with an opposing PAC. Or form one
Obligator "for the record": I am fervently against drunk driving. I'm also against moral grandstanding self-righteous twits who go around passing laws denying the rest of us legal access to our recreations of choice because of a minority of fools who misbehave. Raising the drinking age to 21 in the US made binge drinking worse, not better. Contrast with Germany, France, Italy, etc. where the drinking age is around 16, and binge drinking much less common. Drunk driving statistics didn't improve until they made anti-drunk driving laws more stringent
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
PMS and/or Menopause
This is stupid, every agency in the world is jumping on to the "down with GTA" bandwagon just so they can get their 15 minutes of attention. The game doesn't promote drunk driving any more than it promotes any other activity. It's a sandbox. Hey I can jump off a bridge and drown in the game too, maybe the game promotes suicide....
... our teacher took us to an interactive science museumajig thing called the Imaginarium where various installations were in place to teach basic things about Physics, Meteorology, and what have you. One of these exhibits (this was in the early nineties, mind you) was a drunk driving simulator designed solely for the purpose of teaching kids not to drink and drive (nearly a decade before they could even obtain a license). You get in the mock Jeep Wrangler with your classmate, select which kind of drink and how many (I had eight gin & tonics), and you attempt to keep your vehicle between the lines in what looked like a second-rate production of Spyhunter on NES. I remember, despite being about eight years old, that all of my classmates and I thought the overall presentation of this game as a teaching tool was both "gay" and "retarded".
I have to say, despite the fact that I'm now about 3/4th paralyzed throughout my body from a broken neck due to a drunk driver, these self-righteous bitches can stop harassing the video game industry on my behalf. People have been getting drunk long before video games ever existed and will continue to stupidly drive while intoxicated... simply because being intoxicated causes poor judgment in itself. Trying to claim that video games or any other media somehow influences people to drive drunk just for the sake of driving drunk is complete and utter bullshit.
The only reason they're going after the game is because the franchise has a history of controversy tied to it and they want to cash in on this incarnation of Grand Theft Auto before someone else does and desensitizes people to their cause.
8==8 Bones 8==8
I love driving on LSD personally, it is a lot more challenging, and I love a good challenge.
Dj fuQ [url="http://djfuq.org"]djfuq urges you to listen to the beats[/url] [url="http://djfuq.org"]http://djfuq.org[
Grand Theft Auto IV = 11,800,000, Polio = 4,890,000.
As a proud member of MAHK (Mothers Against Hooker Killing), I think it's great that people are finally starting to take notice of a game that we, as an organization, have been fighting for a long time. Hooker killing is not a game; it's something we take very seriously. The responses on this site have been nothing short of juvenile. I, for one, give MADD a resounding "Huzzah!"
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
MADD should change their name to MAFD
Mothers Against Fun Driving
Actually I'm waiting for kind of the reverse of GTA. You could play as police, S.W.A.T. army, vigilante citizen, etc.
It could even start as you playing an average guy, like Half-Life.
And if such a game already exists, I'm sorry and please tell me the title of the game.
M.A.D.D. Spokeswoman: "Drunk driving is not a game. But GTA IV is. (Pause.) Wait, what was I saying?"
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
On another note, based on the posts here, I completely agree with the notion that Rockstar handled this really well.
This issue that Slashdot keeps harping on is the one thing that makes me embarrassed to read this site or recommend it to other adults I know, because it's so out of touch with reality, and because it's pursued with such blinding religious fervor.
The editors here really need to get past their one-size-fits-all videogame content boosterism and stop being shills for the industry. Rockstar: "mature audience". Give me a fucking break. The vast majority of violent videogame players are in the 8-28 bracket, not that mature, and very impressionable. Rockstar strokes their customers' egos with their PR statements like this - good for business.
Slashdot, usually wise to the ways of the technology industry, should know better.
So is your point that it encourages drunk driving and people stabbing equally? Not that there's anything wrong with that .....
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I've also found out that when you shoot someone in real life, the cops don't just forget about it once you're out of their search radius.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
What is the world coming to? Next thing you'll tell me you're able to randomly murder people in the game!
"MADD also is asking Rockstar Games to consider removing GTA IV from distribution"
In other news.... MADD is petitioning the Earth to consider canceling gravity.
We've already got games that allow (and encourage) the players to do worse criminal acts like murder, human sacrifice, and cannibalism (NetHack). How far will society let this trend go? What if GTA V includes ways to do truly despicable things like rape, serial killing, cannibalism, stalking victims? What if the victims of the above crimes are children or animals?
Its quite simple, with both M.A.D.D. and Jack Thompson. If they don't get their fat faces in the media once in a while, they can't push for more fundraising (or a run at elected office in JT's case). They can put on their mailers "Led the fight against GTA4". They have to try and get their names out there any chance they can, in order to keep the lifeblood (money) coming into their org. Its the same with any other group that has jumped into the "nutso" pool. While its unfortunate, it always provides a laugh.
Right, the general problem is very drunk people. MADD's campaign to lower it because of their hatred of alcohol has made things more dangerous. The roads are not substantially safer by busting people between a 0.08 and 0.12... 0.10 was a reasonable margin of safety, 0.12 would do it... The people at 0.08 are slightly impaired, but not that dangerous... they are less dangerous than someone on their cell phone, dealing with a crying child (because air bags have made it dangerous and illegal to keep the car seat up front with the driver, or just about any distraction).
MADD accomplished their goals, and all the good people left... nobody in America thinks that drunk driving is harmless... the people left in the organization are crazy people that think alcohol is evil and needs to be stopped. They now push more draconian laws that make us less safe.
Unfortunately, when MADD was the only game in town, they got a lot of contracts with governments to do safety things. As a result, there is a big pile of money in a 501(c)3 just ripe for the stealing... and that's who populates MADD now.
As opposed to randomly shooting people or running them over in your vehicle, or shooting police.
Come on this is a game, just because I like to play an FPS and blow off steam shooting the shit out of peds (something I can't do rl) doesn't mean reality will slip for me and I'd do it for real. I drink, I drive, I DO NOT drink and drive.
The game is meant to be a game, if you people had your way we would never have had the Postal series either.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
If it were starting out as Joe Average, the citizen, people would be up in arms about it because it would encourage people to take matters into their own hands and not rely on the professionally trained and routinely over-equipped swat teams and their no knock tactics.
Now if it started out featuring a swat officer, it'd be A-OK to go barging into anyone's house and gun them down, warrant or not, since everybody is guilty of something and they *could* have had child porn or something on their computer. This would be hailed as a great game and role model for young kids. It would be lauded for showing "what it takes" for law enforcement to keep everyone "safe".
I am personally of the opinion that video games are the same as movies in that ANY topic should be fair game. This is why I wish the console manufacturers would "support" AO rated games. AO shouldn't just be for porn games, it could be utilized for more realistic violence, or topics like rape.
There are PLENTY of novels and movies that deal with the topics that you mentioned...why not video games? The common argument against this is that video games are interactive, and as such are different from just watching or reading about someone doing something.
The way I see it is this. If you are a rapist with uncontrollable desires, and hate the fact that you act out on these feelings...why not make a video game for them? After all, would you rather a rapist actually go out and rape someone, or play a video game where they follow someone around during their day, watch their house, and do whatever it is that rapists do when picking their prey?
There are some really sick people out there, and I think the more options they have to them that satiate their desires while simultaneously reducing the risk that they would do it in real life would be a huge plus.
Living With a Nerd
ROFL
I stopped having any respect for MADD once I read interviews with the founders, and their discouragement with MADD becoming a neo-prohibition group, and sadly a highly influential one.
MADD is now more about being a business, which many states mandate it being in charge of the various draconian drunk driving programs. If they had their druthers, there's no doubt the penalties would involve executing the drunk driver, and their entire family, and giving all their property and assets to MADD.
Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.
Drunk driving might not be a game, but drunk driving inside of a game is certainly a game. When someone makes a game about war, nobody starts jumping up and down, screaming "war is not a game, and it is not a joke." They also don't start demanding that the game be taken off of the market immediately in order to show respect to the victims of war. Face it, gamers "do" things in games that they would never do in real life, because they understand that the consequences of their actions in the game world are not important, or even real. MADD seems to have trouble distinguishing between real drunk driving and virtual drunk driving.
I mean, we're talking about a game where you shoot cops and traffic cocaine for money; I think people understand that GTA characters do not make healthy long-term life decisions and that they would make terrible role models. Just because it's a game about mature topics doesn't mean it's going to corrupt the very moral fabric of society (if you put stock in such quaint notions) and turn us all into raging drunk drivers.
Hell, I don't even have a car, I'm a poor college student who rides the bus.
how about stealing cars and shooting people?
MADD, I feel your pain, but fucking move on. This is clearly a publicity grab.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Here's my perspective.
.39 BAC. I'm angry that my city has a travesty of a public transport system that causes a lot of people to choose to drive. I'm angry that the insanely high drinking age and draconian laws regarding it prevent parents from introducing alchohol to their kids in a safe environment, teaching them responsible habits, like the Europeans do.
I recently had drop everything in the middle of finals week, because my twelve year old cousin had been killed by a drunk driver, and her dad was in a coma and it was unclear if he would live.
I am angry yes. I'm angry that some 18 year old punk thought he could drive with a
But _anyone_ who seriously thinks someone will decide to drive drunk based on playing a video game is mentally deficient. Besides, how are these kids getting the games anyways? In my area, all the stores card for M rated games. But it doesn't matter, since the kids just get their parents to buy it for them. Back when San Andreas came out I actually saw some guy in his 40s screaming at a clerk for refusing to sell his ~12 year old kid a copy.
In my opinion, that's why so many people want to blame video games, or anything else for that matter. It draws the attention away from their shitty parenting.
Huh.. drunk driving is not a choice.. drunk driving is what happens when you let retard monkey cousins consume poison lawfully. And then they have the nerve to ban other less harmful poisons.
Several episodes of The Simpsons feature drinking-and-driving by the main characters which frequently results in few negative consequences. I wonder if MADD has gone after them as well?
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Apparently no one from MADD has played the game. It's portrayed with definite consequences for driving drunk. In the game I took Roman (your cousin in game) out for drinks and got royally hammered. When you go to the car and try and get in it say "driving drunk not a good idea". If you do it anyway you'll have 10 cop cars on you within a block and you're way to hammered to outrun them. If anything this is doing the MADD cause a favor.
This is a highly unexpected hiccup in what I'm sure Rockstar assumed would be a smooth and uncontroversial launch.
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
But the people shooting is ok.
Newsflash, you MADD nimrods: all crime is preventable, if the prevention is "just don't do it."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Why would Rockstar pollute a simple child's game about murder, drugs, and whoring with this unacceptable content? It's appalling!
I've played the part where you get drunk and can drive home 1. you have the option to walk (which again you walk drunk). 2. as soon as you get in the car the police come after you. 3. you regularly hit and kill people because you drive like shit. sounds like a good lesson.
They put thoughts of illegal and immoral activity into our heads! The ultimate next level is to take what you do in games and apply them in real life. Due to video games I often go for a drive and enjoy sideswiping cars and driving into them head on. Last week I attempted a banana kick while recently playing soccer with my friends. Get real... Enough already.
What Drivers Against Drunk Mothers has to say about GTA4.
I left the following comment on MADD's blog...I highly doubt they will approve it, since all organizations like MADD don't take criticism well. Especially of the overly negative kind.
------
You said it yourself. "Drunk driving is a choice..."
If it is a choice, then everyone who makes a CHOICE to buy the game and CHOOSES to drive in that game drunk, then who is anybody to say that is wrong? Since this is a driving related issue, last time I checked people 17+ can drive. Why should the age be raised a mere 1 year to Adult Only (18+)?
Besides, it is a GAME. It is rated M for a reason. If you are going to drive drunk in real life, then playing a game where you can drive drunk isn't going to deter or reinforce the decision of the person playing.
I've had plenty of friends die from drunk driving. I will still be playing this game. As will millions of other people. Get off the soap box and stop trying to capitalize by standing on top of other people's work.
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
A few years back I was walking through a subway station in Toronto trying to get to college. A single (female) MADD rep was standing in the halls with a collection box begging for money.
I didn't know much about them, but I believed MADD was a good cause. At the time I was a poor student, so I humored her and said "No thanks, not today" (as opposed to ignoring her existence as is normal on the Toronto subway). And you know what she says to me?
Oh, so you SUPPORT drunk driving?
At this point I wanted to throttle her, I was absolutely speechless. I walked away with my jaw agape, stupefied. I wish I had said, "no, but I'll never support MADD again because of your sickening implications" or something to that effect. Since that day I've decided I'll never give to any charities ever again. They are simply too manipulative for their own good.
I saw a funny spoof of the MADD acronym: DAMM - Drunks Against MADD Mothers.
Yes we wouldn't want books or TV shows about serial killing, or books and movies about rapists, let alone movies about cannibalism.
MADD is trolling to get some screen time on the back of Rockstar. The game clearly states and demonstrates that drunk driving is bad. They are just after the press coverage. Don't feed the trolls.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
One of the very first missions has you helping out Little John... Who asks you to drive for him because he acknowledges dope makes him unsafe to drive.
Yet, strangely, no "Jack Thompson lauds Rockstar's stance on designated drivers."
Drunk driving is irresponsible and dangerous, and it is (unfortunately) a reality. Instead of banishing those actions from the game completely, why not punish the player for their actions? I don't mean getting a ticket or losing your car in the game, but something more profound - like erasing all of the player's saved games.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
The vast majority of drunk driving arrests and fatal accidents due to drunk driving in my state involve illegal immigrants from Mexico. And yet, there's been nary a peep out of MADD. Why? They're afraid of the pro-amnesty lobby.
But let some company release a video game with some drunk driving aspect to it and they make a big stink about that.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
In other news, Mothers Against Capping Cops in the Ass also lodged a protest, as did Mothers Against Driving Semis on the Sidewalk, Mothers Against Jacking Fire Trucks, Mothers Against Machinegunning City Hall, Mothers Against Random Sniper Terrorism...
NO DOUBT: They're the same U.S.A. whore trash that took ludes and tranquillizers like diazapan (valium) throughout the 1960's & 1970's ("mothers little helpers" that the Rolling Stones sang about, which is WHY there IS a tune about it in fact)!
They went around 'banged' just about anyone around, after drinking their silly asses off themselves, & now are making us deal in DUI laws that impoverish? Bullshit. Pure unadulterated b.s.!
In fact, women in the U.S. alone have been shown, via statistical samplings, that they bore the child of a man other than their husbands (the chump stooge that got stuck with her, because he had CA$H, instead of good looks or charm).
(And, yes, there are facts supporting that last statement of mine out there, & to the point that something like 1 out of every 5 guys out there is NOT the father of his "children". Yea, real "nice girls" (not)).
Statistics aside, most guys' life experience will do the rest, I am sure. Especially in the United States.
American women? Sorry, largely whores for sale, & cheap (or, doesn't the number of herpes & AIDS cases out there now NOT help bear it out also) - they're the LAST ONES that ought to be playing "the saint".
Now, not ALL women in the states are this type of scum, but, any guys reading this will probably agree to a large extent on my statements (provided they're not catholic priests(or whatever that requires abstinence) or living up on a mountain somewhere in Tibet in isolation).
All you have to do is like GTA is doing: if you barge in on regular NPCs you get demoted by the game, blocked by your fellow NPCs, etc.
The goal of such a game would be to be a reverse GTA. Heck, imagine if you put that option in GTA, then add MMORPG elements to it. You could play either the bad or the good guy, online, against other players. And make sure the game allows for vigilante so that you have the other two kinds of players chasing you, for extra fun.
While I think it should be up to elected officials to mandate this sort of constructive change, it would be nice if MADD spent a little bit more of their time and money lobbying for change that accommodates responsible drinking rather than lobbying for punitive deterrents on drinking in general.
I almost donated money to them based on what I'd presumed their mission to be, but fortunately I did my reading before sending in a check. They harassed me for months with follow up phone calls and letters, even after I explained that I thought their organization's actions and goals were morally defunct and that liquor companies were doing a far better job of promoting social responsibility than they were.
In a game where one can kill prostitutes, police, and run over civilians with abandon all the while stealing cars and causing increasing levels of mayhem, MADD is worried about drunk driving?
'Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.' is a laughable statement about a game so hellbent on being the end all be all of sandbox gangster games.
I wonder if MADD felt the same way about John Travolta's glorification of driving while doped on heroin in Pulp Fiction.
I wonder if MADD finds it funny that you can get drunk in WOW and ride your mount and you weave all over the place.
Maybe MADD needs to pull the sand out of their crack and chill the fuck out.
I think we should ban NASCAR, because I think it promotes driving at 200Mph on our streets!
Drunk driving is cool!
Everything is just so nifty. And it is the only way 2 get home from the bar.
I drive drunk all the time, even got me a police scanner and watch the news so I can avoid the checkpoints.
Haven't been caught yet, but I always keep my 1962 penny to defeet the breathilizer. It needs to be the OLD ones, before the government changed the formula to stop it from working.
Also helps that my uncle is the county sherif.
Dear MADD and all other activist groups that have met their original goals and now are just trying to find reasons to exist.
DROP DEAD
Thank you
If you don't see the problem with that, your opinion isn't worth listening to. You didn't see the problem with it so...
Dear Rockstar: Please stop distributing your product. Thanks.
There's a mission that actually REQUIRES you to drive drunk (you have to bring the stupid army guy to a hospital because his moonshine exploded).
MADD is full of retards apparently. We've gone over this a million times. Bad video game behavior does not translate into bad behavior in real life.
I've read plenty of BOOKS and seen plenty of MOVIES and TELEVISION where characters drove while drunk. How about doing something about those?
Intolerance knows no bounds.
Did Alfred E. Neuman give the press conference?
Oh, wait...
Stop calling these "accidents". When people drive carelessly, drive under influence of drugs and alcohol, drive in spite of known medical conditions that cause them to lose control (eg. epilepsy), these are *NOT* accidents. These are malicious acts. Do we call drive-by shootings killing innocent bystanders as "accidental shootings"? No. Neither are the *crimes* perpetuated by these malicious drivers.
An accident is if you blow out your tire by running over a metal shard. Or cause a crash by a falling tree. That is an accident. Or get a stroke or a heart attack or other medical condition that you were *not previously* aware of.
Regarding level of intoxication, it doesn't matter what you put the limit at. It should be lowered down to 0.05. I don't give a rats ass if someone "functions" fine in normal circumstances. The problem is they do NOT "function" the same in an emergency. The reaction time for impaired is MUCH longer than unimpaired. A 30 year old with 0.08 alcohol level probably has a reaction time of a 70 year old. And considering that 30 year old drive faster.... do I need to connect the dots?
Get drunk as fuck. I don't give a rats ass. But if you drive with 0.08 I hope they haul your ass to jail for a long time. Oh, and in my jurisdiction, the level is now 0.05.
As to external sources:
http://www.science.org.au/nova/052/052key.htm
"Competent driving requires a variety of different skills â€" an ability to physically operate the car, an ability to perform more than one task at a time, an awareness of potential hazards, a capacity to react quickly to danger, and so on. Virtually all these skills diminish with increasing BAC. This is borne out by research suggesting that the risk of involvement in a motor vehicle crash in which one or more people are killed or require hospital treatment doubles with a BAC of 0.05 and increases more than four-fold with a BAC of 0.12."
Statistics speak for themselves.
How will MADD know if I'm playing any of the other driving missions in the game...but I'm drunk in real life while doing it? Surely that must be worse than simulated drunkenness.
Or for that matter what if I buy a copy of Gran Turismo and a six pack?
FWIW, I'll betcha the fine folks at Rockstar put a drunk driving mission in there on purpose and leaked the info to MADD themselves. They definitely know how to capitalize on free publicity.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
i think one of the points that people are trying to make (however stupid or misguided or "mispoken" they may be) is that this game is not for kids - who do have problems with the difference between what is real or not.
most of the people here are mature(!) adults who really do enjoy the game (and games like this) and take it for what it is worth and keep the fun in the game but i know i would not want my 9 year old playing it or some of the kids at the school - some kids in particular!
i know my kid is pretty smart and we are involved with what they do, but the problem is, a lot of parents don't give a crap and leave it to others to raise them (school, daycare, state, church, whatever) and it is these people that just want to ban anything that they think will corrupt their kids - just because they are too damn lazy and stupid to try to raise their kids themselves.
this is why a good idea (MADD) was hijacked, and why on TV we can't see tits but every sunday we can listen to people talk about ghosts pulling giraffes out of thin air.
Out of respect for all those people who had horrible mothers or no mothers at all...
I understand the argument, but everytime I've tried to drive drunk in the game either one of the people I was with died, I got arrested, or I died after flying through the windshield and landing 30ft from my vehicle.
I don't think it exactly glorifies it.
In an effort to conform with internet communication standards, please note that the above comment is 100% biased opinion
Wow, now that's strange. First, just seven hours after GTA:IV came out, Fox News goes and does a 10 minute segment on how evil the game is, then Jack Thompson goes and rants to the D.A. about how GTA:IV should be outright banned, now even MADD is getting in on the dirty politics and Communist like censorship? I'm shocked! I expected Fox News and Jack Thompson, but wow, I never saw MADD coming into this!
First of all, I'm a _huge_ supporter of MADD and their efforts to stop drunk driving. I respect that, but requesting to ban a damn video game because it has drunk driving in it is just absurd. We live in a country where alcohol is glamorized on television, movies, and TV. Just watch a football game, you'll see at least 20 beer commercials during the game, WHICH KIDS ARE WATCHING! But suddenly I guess it's a crime against humanity if a video game tries to get in on the action! A game with a clear M rating, which kids under 17 can not buy.
I can see the common argument here, they probably think that kids will say "wow, that looks cool, lets go get drunk and drive in real life". The usual stuff, games make kids try to imitate it. But, this is (somewhat) true with ALL MEDIA! Let's compare the amount of people that have gone bezerk and shot people because they saw it in a video game to the amount of people who try to copy the rappers and celebrities on MTV. I'm sure there are a hell of a lot more (and younger) people copying what they see on television, specifically music, than copying video games.
So it's okay to have dozens of beer commercials on sporting events on TV that kids as young as 6 are watching, but it's illegal for a video game that you must be 17 or older to buy in it? That's just wrong.
Does this mean I have to turn in my old copy of Sierra's Driver's Education '98 for its Drunk Driving simulation?? Say it ain't so! :((((
Does anyone have a good joke about the Khmer Rouge to rebut MADD's risible claim?
This is total bullshit, you can call a cab in the game instead of driving, just like in real life. Maybe some of these people protesting these games should also move on and live a real life instead of nitpicking over every goddamn piece of entertainment that's released.
Now - worth bitching about is multiplayer not working on the PS3 version. What's up with that?
I'm currently drinking, driving, playing GTA IV on my in-car x-box, and posting on slashdot.
sig sig sig siggy sig
If every time you got into a car drunk the game started playing carnival music and spawned an obstacle course of dancing children, MADD might have a case.
Americans are so anti-freedom these days. Anytime something even hints at doing or saying something you dislike you must push to have it silenced.
When I was younger, the science center here in Atlanta had a DUI driving simulator. I'm not sure if it's still there. Regardless, you would drink/smoke/inject various substances and attempt to drive down a street as your car wobbled all over the road. IT EXISTED TO PERSUADE KIDS THAT DRINKING AND DRIVING WAS A BAD COMBINATION BY SHOWING THEM HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO CONTROL A CAR WHILE INTOXICATED. GTA 4 does exactly the same thing. It's not like Rockstar portrays drugs as giving you superhuman powers. *cough* NARC *cough*.
Don't agree with someone? Just call them names.
The really funny part: Many anti-drunk-driving groups (not sure if MADD was one of them) invested in... drunk driving video (arcade) game simulators! They were often installed as part of museum exhibits and such to demonstrate the difficulty of driving drunk to kids and teenagers, I've seen at least two now (one at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science and one at some other museum, I think maybe in Dallas).
And as to your side note, the last time I wanted to kill a dwarf in real life, I didn't have a good enough answer to "What! With your bare hands?", so game playing has definitely made me a better person than I would otherwise have been....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
But driving drunk is legal in World of Warcraft!
*drinks 5 Rumsey Rum Black Label, mounts up a mechanostrider*
"your character feels drunk"
You don't have to hate to say it. MADD has a noble goal in mind but their strategy is ineffective and they squander good will quickly with their obnoxious tactics.
MADD can suck even while drunk driving sucks. Being anti-MADD isn't being pro-drunk driving.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I agree with MADD. Drunk driving isn't a game. But GTAIV is a game. And it's not drunk driving. As a matter of fact, I think you'd be in for a miserable life if you can't tell the difference between getting lit up and trying to drive a car, and playing a video game in the safety of your own home.
But then again, I tried to fly that one time after playing a marathon session of Superman on the Atari 2600, so I'm probably not the best person to be pointing this out.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
MADD's mission, amongst other things, is to draw attention to the problem of drunk driving. Yes, this may have been a completely over-the-top way to get attention, but they -did- get attention. If I was a PR director at MADD, I'd certainly be willing to suffer a few nasty posts in order to get on the front page of Slashdot, one of the most viewed pages on the web. Like it or not, this is the reaction they wanted to get from you. You may be mocking them, or insulting them, but you are talking about them. Why do you think Jack Thompson latched onto the same game?
(Aside from the fact that he's a compulsive whack-job, I mean.)
I once appeared for a credible motorist organization, speaking against the use of unreliable hand held breath tests, or "instant probable cause" as they were set to register any alcohol use, not intoxication. I called MADD a prohibitionist organization, which made sure I never got on network TV as a talking head again. Thank them for the universal 21 age, which causes young people to learn to hide drinking, unlike when I went to college, where you could have a beer in the student union like an adult. The blood borders were a real issue, but a 19 drinking age would have fixed that problem without making an entire generation into lawbreakers. Driving drunk is stupid, and deadly, but the social policies MADD has pushed have resulted in many unintended consequences. In my state, we have a lot of rather convoluted DWI law (IMAL) and I explain that it was all MADD lobbying. still makes no sense.
.. at the release of Jade Empire?
In that, you can fight drunk ( it's one of the fighting styles ). [sarcasm]Of course, this promotes getting drunk and beating up people, demons and spirits. This is not acceptable.[/sarcasm]
I would imagine that people who would copy such dangerous things of games ( "Hey, let's go drink driving just like on GTA" ) are pre-disposed to do such things from any influence. Be it a game, television, book, imagination or even dreams. I am guessing these people are in the minority by a long shot and as such, punishing everyone is not the appropriate action.
The disappearing pencil trick. Let me show you it.
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
MADD has accomplished their job of making drunk driving socially unacceptable, criminal, and generally not done (especially compared to the 70s).
Now they are on a rampage to make alcohol criminal. And you know, they will win. They will accomplish what their forebears couldn't in the 1900s.
They will do it not by actually making alcohol itself criminal, but by making consuming alcohol criminal. The 0.08 limits. The Draconian enforcement of their underage drinking party bans (which actually stop drunk driving).
Honestly, I wonder how bars stay in business anymore. You have to be able to walk to them of get a group of 3+ friends to go in the same car.
Does anybody actually take a look around the U.S.A.?
1. Bars have parking lots next to them. They get built in strip malls on highways with no public transportation. I always snicker: Drunk driving is illegal and for good reason, but let's face it: What the hell do you expect people to do? It's not like we have public transportation in this country, and, really, how realistic do you think this "designated driver" bullshit is? The fact is, most people drive drunk occasionally. It's dangerous and stupid, but if you're going to be drinking anywhere besides your next-door-neighbors' yard, it's not like the U.S. gives you many practical alternatives.
2. The drinking age is 21. Tell me who the hell starts drinking at 21. Nobody. Everyone breaks the law, and everybody knows it.
We've been engaging in doublethink on alcohol for so long that when facts stare us in the face we can't even see them. Social drinking is a requirement in American culture, but it is incompatible with the way Americans have built their laws, their suburbs, and their society.
I wish something would clear up this cognitive dissonance.
---
And more directly on-topic: It's obvious that MADD hasn't played the game. Once upon a time, the father of a friend of mine wrote Disney a very angry letter about the movie Dogma, which he said was anti-Catholic. Of course, he'd never even seen the film. MADD is doing the same thing here, I'm sure.
There needs to be some rule: Do a cursory fact check; then get outraged.
---
Basically, I just wish people would think more instead of relying on stupid emotional animal instinct. The fact is, MADD would prevent a hell of a lot more drunk-driving deaths by lobbying for convenient trolleys that run by the local pubs -- y'know, the way cities used to be built before this happened -- than they ever will by being angry, screaming, and vengeful. They should think about what they are actually achieving, instead of lashing out emotionally.
Understand that I'm no apologist for alcoholism. I know that's a popular position to take here on Slashdot, but I've seen far too much damage done by alcohol than to just ignore the harm. But you see, I'm practical. Alcohol isn't going away. People who want to drink, will. I will even have a beer on occasion. So let's try to at least make our society compatible with that.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving are having a go at GTAIV?
I wonder how many other mothers groups will jump on the band wagon.
Is there a Mothers Against Shooting People In The Head? That is an illegal violent crime that isnt a game also.
Isn't the violent crime in GTA at least as violent as drunk driving. If drunk driving is equal to violent crime, why should one be removed while the other remains.
These people are insane. When is everyone in this country going to start worrying about our own actions rather than our next door neighbors. This is the reason our society is so fucked up.
I have the magic cure you blameless assholes. Be good parents and teach your children about consequences. Not right and wrong, becauses people will distort that with experiences. Teach them causality. Teach them that every action has an equal and opposite reaction and it should always be considered before making a judgement. I fucking hate drunk drivers. Two friends of mine were killed by one years ago, but you know what... I'm gonna go play GTA4 and drive drunk in it. You know why? It is a fucking video game you ass holes.
MADD also is asking Rockstar Games to consider removing GTA IV from distribution 'out of respect for the millions of victims/survivors of drunk driving.'
And today, I am asking Senator Kennedy to consider removing himself from office 'out of respect for the millions of victims/survivors of alcoholism.'
There's no place like
and being a kid. really this political correctness and caring thing is being taken to the extreme. mothers are actually much less developed than their kids, as each generation comes up better than the previous ones. a mother would be stunned and impressed and affected by violent games, but kids, eh, they are actually not taking any game seriously, mark my words. in games, graphical glitches and unrealistic textures would get more of their attention and result in bitching about than any violent content would impress them and encourage them to repeat them. kids grow up with computers now. the effect any computer game has on them is long lost in the first year they start playing games.
Read radical news here
If anything, I think GTA IV discourages people from driving drunk. Specially if you got a comet xD
Rockstar should make a nice donation to MADD for this amazing advertisement. I recommend a few new Mustangs and a case or two of Jack.
It's just amazing, this is exactly the kind of publicity that has made GTA3 a major sucess. GTA4 is off to a good start!
Too bad the religious organizations haven't had their go yet. I really need to buy some stock in this company.
If you can't drive drunk, you can't drive at all!
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
So, the good people of MADD are, well, mad about a violent video game?
Let me see if I have this right--the GTA series is historically riddled with sex, drugs, and violence but adding a little booze is over the line?
Those are some f**ked up values.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
I love it when activists harm their cause, just like 1980s anti-nuclear environmentalists are to thank for our coal power plants.
My point is, what a better way to show people the dangers of drunk driving by letting them experience it in a game? People have no idea how bad at driving they would be once drunk. And people tend to use virtual experiences as experience anyways when that's all they've got.
So let people see how dangerous drunk driving is by letting them experience it first hand in the only way that can be safe, in a computer simulation. It's so much more valuable than ignorance.
You just got troll'd!
Well, video games should be used to persecution by now, right folks?
If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.
Mothers Against Drunken Flyers! ... If I could only find back that ms-excel fly-simulator!
Guess I'm too drunk for that.
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
The enemy who makes my enemies position look ridiculous is my friend.
I haven't played it yet but from what I hear the new GTA is a hallmark that finally manages to marry a sandbox world to a solid story. Go Rockstar!
___
No power in the 'verse can stop me
Have they not noticed that they're going after a crime of DUI in the video game, when your character is capable of committing far worse crimes in the game, such as, oh I don't know, MURDER?!
Where're the families of murder victims protesting?
Oh wait, ITS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
someones really going to get that broken up that a game is letting people drive drunk just because they have lost someone to drunk driving i think they should interview some people and ask what they think because it shouldn't be up to just the corperations if the game is pulled and of course kids are gonna play the game but thats a parenting problem if they don't want their kids playing the game don't let them and if they do play explain to them that it's just a game and to not do that in real life it's that simple they shouldn't pull it from the shelves just because some pissed off moms don't like what you can do in the game i think the games not that bad from my experience of playing it(about 3-4 hours)
so long as your blood-alcohol level is well below the legal limit while you do it.
Driving over them is a better choice.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
You insensitive clod!
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Do you know how hard it is to do a ride-by with a lever-action rifle?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Random Breath testing has been a regular thing since (I think) the 70s. Police set up stations where there is traffic (or sometimes on back roads used to avoid the usual locations) and randomly breath test people in general. To any one person it probably happens once a year and doesn't take more than 30 seconds out of your day. Penalties can be fairly steep depending on your level of intoxication and involve fines and potential loss of licence. Over time people got the message and now DUI has a strong social stigma in Australia (where we are still a nation of pissheads) such that most people have a designated drive or catch the bus home. It's your civil liberties that are causing the problem - no bill of rights here.
- Just trying to survive until the nanobots make me immortal -
The name MADD seems very appropriate. From what I can tell they certainly are. Perhaps they could give FORGIVE a chance? That's what my mom taught me.