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Microsoft Antitrust Judgement
An anonymous reader writes "Here are the links to the as-yet-unreleased judgement in the Microsoft case by CKK: Final Decree, Memorandum Opinion, Public Interest Order, Opinion on the State Settlement, State Settlement Order." In brief: Kollar-Kotelly accepts the settlement that the Federal Gov't and some states wanted, but she wants a minor change to it; and she has decided the case which was pursued by the other states as well, mostly ordering Microsoft to refrain from certain behaviors with regard to the user-visible desktop. Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only.
michael, given your well known hatred of microsoft, anything you write about this judgement has no value whatsover. if you have anything to say, please post a comment like the rest of us, and face the moderation wrath.
thanks.
Microsoft Corp. anounces MS Lawyer 2k - This exciting new product translates any sentence or paragraph into pages upon pages of unintelligable lawyer speak. Vanessa Roberts, VP of Public Relations at Microsoft was quoted as saying "we have been using this product for years for our EULA's and to intimidate small competitors, we just figured it's about time we shared the wealth".
I downloaded the initial order quickly. The opinion... took a little longer... now... can't get to anything.
Congratulations people... you just slashdoted the United States of America Judicial System.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
I hear the Microsoft bashers rattling their sabers... ~S
Will look something like this: /. posting too many anti-Microsoft posts.
86% - Yeah! Linux Rules! MS Sucks!
10% - Trolls
2% - People who actually read the decisions and have something thoughtful to say
2% - People complaining about
Why bother even looking at the comments?
If a and b in c, and a can create b, and a can create a, and b can create b, and b cannot create a, then a created c.
Let us all be realistic for a moment. Will anything the Government does, change anything in the bigger picture for MS? I think not. If something was going to happen, it would have already happened. MS has too much power where it counts. And what would really happen if MS was broken into multiple companies? Would we be any better off? I think eventually superior products and services will be widely adopted and MS will lose it's stranglehold on the industry. But until that happens, I think the government is simply wasting a lot of our tax dollars that could be better spent on other things.
How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
I'll put some kind of summary text here once I've had a chance to read it.
WTF? Ok, I'll put some kind of response here after you've posted it.
Best Windows Freeware
Should this have been released before the closing of the markets? I think not... someone's head is going to roll.
STATE OF NEW YORK, et al.,
Plaintiffs
v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
Defendant.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
FINAL JUDGMENT
The Plaintiff States of California, Connecticut, Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Utah,
and West Virginia, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, having
filed their complaints in this action on May 18, 1998;
Defendant Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") having appeared and filed its answer;
The Court having entered Findings of Fact on November 5, 1999 and Conclusions of
Law on April 3, 2000;
The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit having affirmed
the District Court's finding of liability against Microsoft for violation of 2 of the Sherman Act
and the state law counterparts to 2 of the Sherman Act in the states of California, Connecticut,
Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Utah, and West Virginia, the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, and having remanded to this Court for an order of
remedy; and
Upon the record of trial and all prior and subsequent proceedings herein, it is this 1st day
of November, 2002, hereby
ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED as follows:
I. Jurisdiction
This Court has jurisdiction of the subject matter of this action and of the person of
Microsoft.
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II. Applicability
This Final Judgment applies to Microsoft and to each of its officers, directors, agents,
employees, subsidiaries, successors and assigns; and to all other persons in active concert or
participation with any of them who shall have received actual notice of this Final Judgment by
personal service or otherwise.
III. Prohibited Conduct
A. Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against an OEM by altering
Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by withholding newly introduced
forms of non-monetary Consideration (including but not limited to new versions of
existing forms of non-monetary Consideration) from that OEM, because it is known to
Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating:
1. developing, distributing, promoting, using, selling, or licensing any software that
competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that
distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware;
2. shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating
System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with
more than one Operating System; or
3. exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final
Judgment.
Nothing in this provision shall prohibit Microsoft from enforcing any provision of any license
with any OEM or any intellectual property right that is not inconsistent with this Final Judgment.
Microsoft shall not terminate a Covered OEM's license for a Windows Operating System
Product without having first given the Covered OEM written notice of the reasons for the
proposed termination and not less than thirty days' opportunity to cure. Notwithstanding the
foregoing, Microsoft shall have no obligation to provide such a termination notice and
opportunity to cure to any Covered OEM that has received two or more such notices during the
term of its Windows Operating System Product license.
Nothing in this provision shall prohibit Microsoft from providing Consideration to any OEM
with respect to any Microsoft product or service where that Consideration is commensurate with
the absolute level or amount of that OEM's development, distribution, promotion, or licensing of
that Microsoft product or service.
B. Microsoft's provision of Windows Operating System Products to Covered OEMs shall be
pursuant to uniform license agreements with uniform terms and conditions. Without
limiting the foregoing, Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty
for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by
Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs and all Covered OEMs,
that provides for uniform royalties for Windows Operating System Products, except that:
1. the schedule may specify different royalties for different language versions;
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2. the schedule may specify reasonable volume discounts based upon the actual
volume of licenses of any Windows Operating System Product or any group of
such products; and
3. the schedule may include market development allowances, programs, or other
discounts in connection with Windows Operating System Products, provided
that:
a. such discounts are offered and available uniformly to all Covered OEMs,
except that Microsoft may establish one uniform discount schedule for the
ten largest Covered OEMs and a second uniform discount schedule for the
eleventh through twentieth largest Covered OEMs, where the size of the
OEM is measured by volume of licenses;
b. such discounts are based on objective, verifiable criteria that shall be
applied and enforced on a uniform basis for all Covered OEMs; and
c. such discounts or their award shall not be based on or impose any criterion
or requirement that is otherwise inconsistent with any portion of this Final
Judgment.
C. Microsoft shall not restrict by agreement any OEM licensee from exercising any of the
following options or alternatives:
1. Installing, and displaying icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for, any Non-Microsoft
Middleware or any product or service (including but not limited to IAP products
or services) that distributes, uses, promotes, or supports any Non-Microsoft
Middleware, on the desktop or Start menu, or anywhere else in a Windows
Operating System Product where a list of icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for
applications are generally displayed, except that Microsoft may restrict an OEM
from displaying icons, shortcuts and menu entries for any product in any list of
such icons, shortcuts, or menu entries specified in the Windows documentation as
being limited to products that provide particular types of functionality, provided
that the restrictions are non-discriminatory with respect to non-Microsoft and
Microsoft products.
2. Distributing or promoting Non-Microsoft Middleware by installing and
displaying
on the desktop shortcuts of any size or shape so long as such shortcuts do not
impair the functionality of the user interface.
3. Launching automatically, at the conclusion of the initial boot sequence or
subsequent boot sequences, or upon connections to or disconnections from the
Internet, any Non-Microsoft Middleware, except that Microsoft may restrict the
launching of Non-Microsoft Middleware which replaces or drastically alters the
Windows Operating System Product user interface.
4. Offering users the option of launching other Operating Systems from the Basic
Input/Output System or a non-Microsoft boot-loader or similar program that
launches prior to the start of the Windows Operating System Product.
5. Presenting during the initial boot sequence its own IAP offer.
6. Exercising any of the options provided in Section III.H of this Final Judgment.
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D. Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,
ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating
System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar
mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product. For purposes of this Section
III.D, the term APIs means the interfaces, including any associated callback interfaces,
that Microsoft Middleware running on a Windows Operating System Product uses to call
upon that Windows Operating System Product in order to obtain any services from that
Windows Operating System Product. In the case of a new major version of Microsoft
Middleware, the disclosures required by this Section III.D shall occur no later than the
last major beta test release of that Microsoft Middleware. In the case of a new version of
a Windows Operating System Product, the obligations imposed by this Section III.D shall
occur in a Timely Manner.
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
F. 1. Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against any ISV or IHV
because of that ISV's or
IHV's:
a. developing, using, distributing, promoting or supporting any software that
competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any software that runs on
any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, or
b. exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final
Judgment.
2. Microsoft shall not enter into any agreement relating to a Windows Operating
System Product that conditions the grant of any Consideration on an ISV's
refraining from developing, using, distributing, or promoting any software that
competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any software that runs on any
software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, except that Microsoft
may enter into agreements that place limitations on an ISV's development, use,
distribution or promotion of any such software if those limitations are reasonably
necessary to and of reasonable scope and duration in relation to a bona fide
contractual obligation of the ISV to use, distribute or promote any Microsoft
software or to develop software for, or in conjunction with, Microsoft.
3. Nothing in this section shall prohibit Microsoft from enforcing any provision of
any agreement with any ISV or IHV, or any intellectual property right, that is not
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inconsistent with this Final Judgment.
G. Microsoft shall not enter into any agreement with:
1. any IAP, ICP, ISV, IHV or OEM that grants Consideration on the condition that
such entity distributes, promotes, uses, or supports, exclusively or in a fixed
percentage, any Microsoft Platform Software, except that Microsoft may enter
into agreements in which such an entity agrees to distribute, promote, use or
support Microsoft Platform Software in a fixed percentage whenever Microsoft in
good faith obtains a representation that it is commercially practicable for the
entity to provide equal or greater distribution, promotion, use or support for
software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, or
2. any IAP or ICP that grants placement on the desktop or elsewhere in any
Windows Operating System Product to that IAP or ICP on the condition that the
IAP or ICP refrain from distributing, promoting or using any software that
competes with Microsoft Middleware.
Nothing in this section shall prohibit Microsoft from entering into (a) any bona fide joint venture
or (b) any joint development or joint services arrangement with any ISV, IHV, IAP, ICP, or
OEM for a new product, technology or service, or any material value-add to an existing product,
technology or service, in which both Microsoft and the ISV, IHV, IAP, ICP, or OEM contribute
significant developer or other resources, that prohibits such entity from competing with the
object of the joint venture or other arrangement for a reasonable period of time.
This Section does not apply to any agreements in which Microsoft licenses intellectual property
from a third party and such intellectual property license is the principal purpose of the
agreement.
H. Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall:
1. Allow end users (via a mechanism readily accessible from the desktop or Start
menu such as an Add/Remove icon) and OEMs (via standard preinstallation kits)
to enable or remove access to each Microsoft Middleware Product or
Non-Microsoft Middleware Product by (a) displaying or removing icons,
shortcuts, or menu entries on the desktop or Start menu, or anywhere else in a
Windows Operating System Product where a list of icons, shortcuts, or menu
entries for applications are generally displayed, except that Microsoft may restrict
the display of icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for any product in any list of such
icons, shortcuts, or menu entries specified in the Windows documentation as
being limited to products that provide particular types of functionality, provided
that the restrictions are non-discriminatory with respect to non-Microsoft and
Microsoft products; and (b) enabling or disabling automatic invocations pursuant
to Section III.C.3 of this Final Judgment that are used to launch Non-Microsoft
Middleware Products or Microsoft Middleware Products. The mechanism shall
offer the end user a separate and unbiased choice with respect to enabling or
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removing access (as described in this subsection III.H.1) and altering default
invocations (as described in the following subsection III.H.2) with regard to each
such Microsoft Middleware Product or Non-Microsoft Middleware Product and
may offer the end-user a separate and unbiased choice of enabling or removing
access and altering default configurations as to all Microsoft Middleware
Products as a group or all Non-Microsoft Middleware Products as a group.
2. Allow end users (via an unbiased mechanism readily available from the desktop
or Start menu), OEMs (via standard OEM preinstallation kits), and
Non-Microsoft Middleware Products (via a mechanism which may, at Microsoft's
option, require confirmation from the end user in an unbiased manner) to
designate a Non-Microsoft Middleware Product to be invoked in place of that
Microsoft Middleware Product (or vice versa) in any case where the Windows
Operating System Product would otherwise launch the Microsoft Middleware
Product in a separate Top-Level Window and display either (i) all of the user
interface elements or (ii) the Trademark of the Microsoft Middleware Product.
Notwithstanding the foregoing Section III.H.2, the Windows Operating System Product may
invoke a Microsoft Middleware Product in any instance in which:
(a) that Microsoft Middleware Product would be invoked solely for use in
interoperating with a server maintained by Microsoft (outside the context
of general Web browsing), or
(b) that designated Non-Microsoft Middleware Product fails to implement a
reasonable technical requirement (e.g., a requirement to be able to host a
particular ActiveX control) that is necessary for valid technical reasons to
supply the end user with functionality consistent with a Windows
Operating System Product, provided that the technical reasons are
described in writing in a reasonably prompt manner to any ISV that
requests them.
3. Ensure that a Windows Operating System Product does not (a) automatically alter
an OEM's configuration of icons, shortcuts or menu entries installed or displayed
by the OEM pursuant to Section III.C of this Final Judgment without first seeking
confirmation from the user and (b) seek such confirmation from the end user for
an automatic (as opposed to user-initiated) alteration of the OEM's configuration
until 14 days after the initial boot up of a new Personal Computer. Any such
automatic alteration and confirmation shall be unbiased with respect to Microsoft
Middleware Products and Non-Microsoft Middleware. Microsoft shall not alter
the manner in which a Windows Operating System Product automatically alters
an OEM's configuration of icons, shortcuts or menu entries other than in a new
version of a Windows Operating System Product.
Microsoft's obligations under this Section III.H as to any new Windows Operating System
Product shall be determined based on the Microsoft Middleware Products which exist seven
7
months prior to the last beta test version (i.e., the one immediately preceding the first release
candidate) of that Windows Operating System Product.
I. Microsoft shall offer to license to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs, ICPs, and OEMs any intellectual
property rights owned or licensable by Microsoft that are required to exercise any of the
options or alternatives expressly provided to them under this Final Judgment, provided
that
1. all terms, including royalties or other payment of monetary consideration, are
reasonable and non-discriminatory;
2. the scope of any such license (and the intellectual property rights licensed
thereunder) need be no broader than is necessary to ensure that an ISV, IHV, IAP,
ICP or OEM is able to exercise the options or alternatives expressly provided
under this Final Judgment (e.g., an ISV's, IHV's, IAP's, ICP's and OEM's option
to promote Non-Microsoft Middleware shall not confer any rights to any
Microsoft intellectual property rights infringed by that Non-Microsoft
Middleware);
3. an ISV's, IHV's, IAP's, ICP's, or OEM's rights may be conditioned on its not
assigning, transferring or sublicensing its rights under any license granted under
this provision; and
4. the terms of any license granted under this section are in all respects consistent
with the express terms of this Final Judgment.
Beyond the express terms of any license granted by Microsoft pursuant to this section, this Final
Judgment does not, directly or by implication, estoppel or otherwise, confer any rights, licenses,
covenants or immunities with regard to any Microsoft intellectual property to anyone.
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
2. Prevent Microsoft from conditioning any license of any API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol related to anti-piracy systems, anti-virus technologies,
license enforcement mechanisms, authentication/authorization security, or third
party intellectual property protection mechanisms of any Microsoft product to any
person or entity on the requirement that the licensee: (a) has no history of
software counterfeiting or piracy or willful violation of intellectual property
rights, (b) has a reasonable business need for the API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol for a planned or shipping product, (c) meets
reasonable, objective standards established by Microsoft for certifying the
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authenticity and viability of its business, (d) agrees to submit, at its own expense,
any computer program using such APIs, Documentation or Communication
Protocols to third-party verification, approved by Microsoft, to test for and ensure
verification and compliance with Microsoft specifications for use of the API or
interface, which specifications shall be related to proper operation and integrity of
the systems and mechanisms identified in this paragraph.
IV. Compliance and Enforcement Procedures
A. Enforcement Authority
1. The Plaintiffs shall have exclusive responsibility for enforcing this Final
Judgment. Without in any way limiting the sovereign enforcement authority of
each of the plaintiff States, the plaintiff States shall form a committee to
coordinate their enforcement of this Final Judgment. A plaintiff State shall take
no action to enforce this Final Judgment without first consulting the plaintiff
States' enforcement committee.
2. To determine and enforce compliance with this Final Judgment, duly authorized
representatives of the plaintiff States, on reasonable notice to Microsoft and
subject to any lawful privilege, shall be permitted the following:
a. Access during normal office hours to inspect any and all source code,
books, ledgers, accounts, correspondence, memoranda and other
documents and records in the possession, custody, or control of Microsoft,
which may have counsel present, regarding any matters contained in this
Final Judgment.
b. Subject to the reasonable convenience of Microsoft and without restraint
or interference from it, to interview, informally or on the record, officers,
employees, or agents of Microsoft, who may have counsel present,
regarding any matters contained in this Final Judgment.
c. Upon written request of a duly designated representative of a plaintiff
State, on reasonable notice given to Microsoft, Microsoft shall submit
such written reports under oath as requested regarding any matters
contained in this Final Judgment.
Individual plaintiff States will consult with the plaintiff States' enforcement committee to
minimize the duplication and burden of the exercise of the foregoing powers, where practicable.
3. The Plaintiffs shall not disclose any information or documents obtained from
Microsoft under this Final Judgment except for the purpose of securing
compliance with this Final Judgment, in a legal proceeding to which one or more
of the Plaintiffs is a party, or as otherwise required by law; provided that the
relevant Plaintiff(s) must provide ten days' advance notice to Microsoft before
disclosing in any legal proceeding (other than a grand jury proceeding) to which
Microsoft is not a party any information or documents provided by Microsoft
pursuant to this Final Judgment which Microsoft has identified in writing as
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material as to which a claim of protection may be asserted under Rule 26(c)(7) of
the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
4. The Plaintiffs shall have the authority to seek such orders as are necessary from
the Court to enforce this Final Judgment, provided, however, that the Plaintiffs
shall afford Microsoft a reasonable opportunity to cure alleged violations of
Sections III.C, III.D, III.E and III.H, provided further that any action by Microsoft
to cure any such violation shall not be a defense to enforcement with respect to
any knowing, willful or systematic violations.
B. 1. Compliance Committee. Within 30 days of entry of this Final Judgment,
Microsoft shall establish a compliance committee (the "Compliance Committee")
of its Board of Directors, consisting of at least three members of the Board of
Directors who are not present or former employees of Microsoft.
2. Compliance Officer. The Compliance Committee shall hire a Compliance Officer,
who shall report directly to the Compliance Committee and to the Chief
Executive Officer of Microsoft. The Compliance Officer shall be responsible for
development and supervision of Microsoft's internal programs to ensure
compliance with the antitrust laws and this Final Judgment. Microsoft shall give
the Compliance Officer all necessary authority and resources to discharge the
responsibilities listed herein.
3. Duties of Compliance Officer. The Compliance Officer shall:
a. within 60 days after entry of this Final Judgment, arrange for delivery to
all officers and directors of Microsoft a copy of this Final Judgment
together with additional informational materials describing the conduct
prohibited and required by this Final Judgment;
b. arrange for delivery in a timely manner of a copy of this Final Judgment
and such additional informational materials to any person who succeeds to
a position described in Section IV.B.3.a above;
c. ensure that those persons described in subsection c.i above are annually
briefed on the meaning and requirements of this Final Judgment and the
United States antitrust laws and advising them that Microsoft's legal
advisors are available to confer with them regarding any question
concerning compliance with this Final Judgment or under the United
States antitrust laws;
d. obtain from each person described in Section IV.B.3.a within 60 days of
entry of this Final Judgment and annually thereafter, and for each person
thereafter succeeding to such a position within 10 days of such succession
and annually thereafter, a written certification that he or she: (i) has read,
understands, and agrees to abide by the terms of, and has to their
knowledge not violated, this Final Judgment; and (ii) has been advised and
understands that his or her failure to comply with this Final Judgment may
result in a finding of contempt of court;
e. maintain a record of persons to whom this Final Judgment has been
distributed and from whom, pursuant to Section V.B.3.d above has been
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obtained;
f. on an annual basis, certify to the Plaintiffs that Microsoft is fully
compliant with this Final Judgment;
g. maintain a record of all complaints received and action taken by Microsoft
with respect to each such complaint; and
g. report promptly to the Plaintiffs any credible evidence of violation of this
Final Judgment.
4. The Compliance Officer may be removed only by the Chief Executive Officer
with the concurrence of the Compliance Committee.
V. Termination
A. Unless this Court grants an extension, this Final Judgment will expire on the fifth
anniversary of the date on which it takes effect.
B. In any enforcement proceeding in which the Court has found that Microsoft has engaged
in a pattern of willful and systematic violations, the Plaintiffs may apply to the Court for
a one-time extension of this Final Judgment of up to two years, together with such other
relief as the Court may deem appropriate.
VI. Definitions
A. "API" means application programming interface, including any interface that Microsoft
is obligated to disclose pursuant to III.D.
B. "Communications Protocol" means the set of rules for information exchange to
accomplish predefined tasks between a Windows Operating System Product and a server
operating system product connected via a network, including, but not limited to, a local
area network, a wide area network or the Internet. These rules govern the format,
semantics, timing, sequencing, and error control of messages exchanged over a network.
C. "Consideration" means any monetary payment or the provision of preferential licensing
terms; technical, marketing, and sales support; enabling programs; product information;
information about future plans; developer support; hardware or software certification or
approval; or permission to display trademarks, icons or logos.
D. "Covered OEMs" means the 20 OEMs with the highest worldwide volume of licenses of
Windows Operating System Products reported to Microsoft in Microsoft's fiscal year
preceding the effective date of the Final Judgment. The OEMs that fall within this
definition of Covered OEMs shall be recomputed by Microsoft as soon as practicable
after the close of each of Microsoft's fiscal years.
E. "Documentation" means all information regarding the identification and means of using
APIs that a person of ordinary skill in the art requires to make effective use of those
11
APIs. Such information shall be of the sort and to the level of specificity, precision and
detail that Microsoft customarily provides for APIs it documents in the Microsoft
Developer Network ("MSDN").
F. "IAP" means an Internet access provider that provides consumers with a connection to
the Internet, with or without its own proprietary content.
G. "ICP" means an Internet content provider that provides content to users of the Internet by
maintaining Web sites.
H. "IHV" means an independent hardware vendor that develops hardware to be included in
or used with a Personal Computer running a Windows Operating System Product.
I. "ISV" means an entity other than Microsoft that is engaged in the development or
marketing of software products.
J. "Microsoft Middleware" means software code that
1. Microsoft distributes separately from a Windows Operating System Product to
update that Windows Operating System Product;
2. is Trademarked or is marketed by Microsoft as a major version of any Microsoft
Middleware Product defined in section VI.K.1; and
3. provides the same or substantially similar functionality as a Microsoft
Middleware Product.
Microsoft Middleware shall include at least the software code that controls most or all
of the user interface elements of that Microsoft Middleware. Software code described as part of,
and distributed separately to update, a Microsoft Middleware Product shall not be deemed
Microsoft Middleware unless identified as a new major version of that Microsoft Middleware
Product. A major version shall be identified by a whole number or by a number with just a single
digit to the right of the decimal point.
K. "Microsoft Middleware Product" means
1. the functionality provided by Internet Explorer, Microsoft's Java Virtual
Machine, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, Outlook Express and
their successors in a Windows Operating System Product, and
2. for any functionality that is first licensed, distributed or sold by Microsoft after
the entry of this Final Judgment and that is part of any Windows Operating
System Product
a. Internet browsers, email client software, networked audio/video client
software, instant messaging software or
b. functionality provided by Microsoft software that --
i. is, or in the year preceding the commercial release of any new
Windows Operating System Product was, distributed separately by
Microsoft (or by an entity acquired by Microsoft) from a Windows
Operating System Product;
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ii. is similar to the functionality provided by a Non-Microsoft
Middleware Product; and
iii. is Trademarked.
Functionality that Microsoft describes or markets as being part of a Microsoft Middleware
Product (such as a service pack, upgrade, or bug fix for Internet Explorer), or that is a version of
a Microsoft Middleware Product (such as Internet Explorer 5.5), shall be considered to be part of
that Microsoft Middleware Product.
L. "Microsoft Platform Software" means (i) a Windows Operating System Product and/or
(ii) a Microsoft Middleware Product.
M. "Non-Microsoft Middleware" means a non-Microsoft software product running on a
Windows Operating System Product that exposes a range of functionality to ISVs
through published APIs, and that could, if ported to or made interoperable with, a non-
Microsoft Operating System, thereby make it easier for applications that rely in whole or
in part on the functionality supplied by that software product to be ported to or run on
that non-Microsoft Operating System.
N. "Non-Microsoft Middleware Product" means a non-Microsoft software product running
on a Windows Operating System Product (i) that exposes a range of functionality to ISVs
through published APIs, and that could, if ported to or made interoperable with, a
non-Microsoft Operating System, thereby make it easier for applications that rely in
whole or in part on the functionality supplied by that software product to be ported to or
run on that non-Microsoft Operating System, and (ii) of which at least one million copies
were distributed in the United States within the previous year.
O. "OEM" means an original equipment manufacturer of Personal Computers that is a
licensee of a Windows Operating System Product.
P. "Operating System" means the software code that, inter alia, (i) controls the allocation
and usage of hardware resources (such as the microprocessor and various peripheral
devices) of a Personal Computer, (ii) provides a platform for developing applications by
exposing functionality to ISVs through APIs, and (iii) supplies a user interface that
enables users to access functionality of the operating system and in which they can run
applications.
Q. "Personal Computer" means any computer configured so that its primary purpose is for
use by one person at a time, that uses a video display and keyboard (whether or not that
video display and keyboard is included) and that contains an Intel x86 compatible (or
successor) microprocessor. Servers, television set top boxes, handheld computers, game
consoles, telephones, pagers, and personal digital assistants are examples of products that
are not Personal Computers within the meaning of this definition.
R. "Timely Manner" means at the time Microsoft first releases a beta test version of a
Windows Operating System Product that is made available via an MSDN subscription
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offering or of which 150,000 or more beta copies are distributed.
S. "Top-Level Window" means a window displayed by a Windows Operating System
Product that (a) has its own window controls, such as move, resize, close, minimize, and
maximize, (b) can contain sub-windows, and (c) contains user interface elements under
the control of at least one independent process.
T. "Trademarked" means distributed in commerce and identified as distributed by a name
other than Microsoft® or Windows® that Microsoft has claimed as a trademark or
service mark by (i) marking the name with trademark notices, such as ® or (TM), in
connection with a product distributed in the United States; (ii) filing an application for
trademark protection for the name in the United States Patent and Trademark Office; or
(iii) asserting the name as a trademark in the United States in a demand letter or lawsuit.
Any product distributed under descriptive or generic terms or a name comprised of the
Microsoft® or Windows® trademarks together with descriptive or generic terms shall not
be Trademarked as that term is used in this Final Judgment. Microsoft hereby disclaims
any trademark rights in such descriptive or generic terms apart from the Microsoft® or
Windows® trademarks, and hereby abandons any such rights that it may acquire in the
future.
U. "Windows Operating System Product" means the software code (as opposed to source
code) distributed commercially by Microsoft for use with Personal Computers as
Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP Home, Windows XP Professional, and
successors to the foregoing, including the Personal Computer versions of the products
currently code named "Longhorn" and "Blackcomb" and their successors, including
upgrades, bug fixes, service packs, etc. The software code that comprises a Windows
Operating System Product shall be determined by Microsoft in its sole discretion.
VII. Further Elements
Jurisdiction is retained by this Court over this action such that the Court may act sua sponte to
issue further orders or directions, including but not limited to orders or directions relating to the
construction or carrying out of this Final Judgment, the enforcement of compliance therewith,
the modification thereof, and the punishment of any violation thereof.
Jurisdiction is retained by this Court over this action and the parties thereto for the purpose of
enabling the parties to this action to apply to this Court at any time for further orders and
directions as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out or construe this Final Judgment, to
modify or terminate any of its provisions, to enforce compliance, and to punish violations of its
provisions.
Unless otherwise indicated, the provisions of this Final Judgment shall take effect 30 days after
the date on which it is entered.
In accordance with the imposition and affirmance of liability, the Plaintiff States shall submit a
14
motion for the award of costs and fees, with supporting documents as necessary, not later than 45
days after the entry of this Final Judgment.
VIII. Third Party Rights
Nothing in this Final Judgment is intended to confer upon any other persons any rights or
remedies of any nature whatsoever hereunder or by reason of this Final Judgment.
SO ORDERED.
_____________________________
COLLEEN KOLLAR-KOTELLY
United States District Judge
"... based upon the detailed analysis set forth in the record of United States v. Microsoft Corp., No. 98-1232, the Court finds that, with the exception of the reservation of jurisdiction, the SRPFJ is fair, reasonable, and in the public interest."
"...The Court suggests that the public interest would be served if Microsoft and the parties to the settlement would agree to amend the proposed final judgment to reserve for the Court, in addition to the powers presently specified in the proposed final judgment, the power sua sponte to issue orders or directions for the construction or carrying out of the final judgment, for the enforcement of compliance therewith, and for the punishment of any violation thereof. Such an amendment would not appear to work a fundamental change to the parties' agreement and would ensure that the Court retains the power intended by Plaintiffs and which the Court considers necessary to ensure effective implementation of the final judgment in this case."
"Based on the foregoing, the Court conditionally approves the SRPFJ as the final judgment as to the claims of the Plaintiff Settling States in the above-captioned case. The Court will enter final judgment upon receipt of a proposed decree which reflects the amendment described above. Such amendment shall be filed in writing with the Court not later than November 8, 2002. An appropriate Order accompanies this Memorandum Opinion."
Slashdot has posted a story which reports that there will soon be a story to report. Is there something I should know about Microsoft and why it is important enough to merit the posting of such a pre-story?
Dr. Joseph Hairston
Superintendent, CCBC
It looks like they'll have to drastically open up their middleware for third party replacements. Very interesting.
This is going to give them fits to change in only 3 months though.
Is /. allowed to post a story before even Matt Drudge gets his grubby little hands on it?
Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten against an OEM by altering Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by witholding newly introduced forms of non-monetary Consideration.
Does that mean that they can't screw over OEM's that include alternative operating systems preinstalled anymore?
when the court ruling is released.
http://www.mugshots.net/bill_gates/
[i]I'll put some kind of summary text here once I've had a chance to read it. [/i]
Yes, please summerize 4 paragraphs for us.
Enter MSFT at the top right of this page. ($ 52.54 at 3:42 pm).
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
It LOOKS like a wrist-slap to me. They have to allow "middleware" and have to disclose "Communications protocols and APIs", except where it would affect 3rd-party IP or "security".
I think it is an attempt to provide some kind of flexibility but "restrain" them, but the Judge is obviously forgetting history: Microsoft is the Harry Houdini of legal agreements, they can wriggle out of anything.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Ok here's the basics of the final judgement.
Microsoft must be broken up into 3 separate entities. That's right, 3. One for gaming, one for productivity software (Office, IE), and a third handling the Windows OS.
I mean, holy shit. I wasn't expecting this. Tis a great day for justice!
WTF...that is bullsh1t!
I'd like to see a diff between the Final Decree and the DOJ's proposed settlement - it looks like the decree doesn't go much beyond what the settlement said, but that's based on a very quick read of the decree and a vague memory of the settlement. Hope dies hard, but it dies nonetheless.
Ooh, it's like that goofy Reuters 'hacking' thing.
I'm not saying this is unethical - I think it clearly isn't - but mightn't it have been polite to sit on this until the stock market closed, or at least until just before it closed?
Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product.
Does that mean they have to open up all their APIs, or just the old ones that don't matter?
Microsft is guilty.
Microsoft must play fair under set conditions.
Microsoft can still restrict access, hide APIs and set up questionable business practices under the guise of protecting "security, anti-virus, licensing, authentication and Digital Rights"
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
I hate their business practices... lots of things not to be proud of there. Also, however good their products might be, I can only imagine things would be WAY cooler if MS had strong competition along the way.
...with the exception that they would like both parties to agree to have the court oversee the implementation of the judgement. IANAL, but it seems that basically the court said that the original penalty was fair, but that the concern about M$ having large oversight of the implementation of the penalty was valid as well. Not sure where that leaves us.
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate." - Cool Hand Luke
Can't.... Read....
Sinuses... filled... with Legalese...
Design for Use, not Construction!
This topic has been already been posted twice - in anticipation of the results. And this "news" story is posted prior to having read the content.
That's almost as irritating as my constant use of italics.
Which part of the word "editor" are we having difficulty with today?
I just got doen reading it and after going through the legalese,
1) it seemed mainly aimed at the OEM market. Saying that MS can't puinsh them for using other software with windows or even dual booting.
2) the only other thing of interest was that they are supposed to open up any communication protocol that is needed in windows (SMB for instance).
3) later on there is this though
"J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction."
so pretty much I think it's a slap on th wrist. maybe some more developers and lawyers can comment.
"I drank what?" - Socrates
A quick glance at the State Settlement and Final Judgement makes it appear that CKK has accepted the proposed settlement between the Federal government, the 9 states, and MS.
IANAL, and I only scanned the top few pages for information. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
. . Did you, at any time in your life, invest in a Ford Pinto? . . .
Read further.
Microsoft will be able to hide APIs, protocols or whatever for various reasons related to security, DRM, authentication, etc.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
This lawsuit has taken four years. I think five years, even with the possiblity of an extension is way too short.
And just because I thought it was interesting, here's the definition of an OS:If you blog it...
Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,
ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating
System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar
mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product.
This is actually a big deal.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
- Anything that compromises security (anti-piracy, DRM, anti-virus, licensing, encryption, authentication).
- Anything the US government allows them to keep hidden
So how much can they get away with with the fairly loose requirements of the first point?I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
As far as I'm concerned, the italian BMT is the best value there, in terms of taste, and in terms of meat. If you want extra meat in your sub, you have to make friends with the crew behind the counter. Short of hanging out with them, always know what you want ahead of time, say your order loudly and quickly, and smile.
you'll be overflowing in succlent meats in no time!
g to the oatse
c to the izzex
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
The big question is, can Samba benefit from this, or are the conditions of the released information going to make it incompatible with the GPL? And can the information be dirty/clean intellectually transferred between one tainted person and one "clean" person even with whatever type of NDA they put on the agreement?
I assume this to mean that the Samba guys will get legal access to the SMB protocol specs and other related stuff. Likely could include the native Exchange server protocols too, since Outlook Express talks that protocol and has shipped integrated with the OS.
11*43+456^2
The "Final Decree" refers to "Windows Operating System Product." If Microsoft comes up with a new Windows system but calls it something else, do these judgements still apply? I would think more approprate wording would be "Microsoft developed Operating System"
IANAL
$cat
MS cannot retaliate or threaten to retaliate against an OEM because the OEM is thinking about developing, distributing, promoting, using, selling, or licensing any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware.
They also cannot retaliate against them for including a computer with 2 OSes (notably missing is the provision against retaliating due to not installing an MS OS)
MS must provide a uniform license agreement and fee schedule for all it's OEMs, with only a few exceptions.
MS will not restrict in the license agreement installing any other icons or programs on the desktop, distrbuting or promoting non-MS browsers/e-mail readers/media players &c. They also cannot restrict the automatic launching of any 'middleware' (browsers, e-mail readers, media players.)
OEMs may offer users multiple OSes on one machine without retaliation from MS.
Open APIs for any 'middleware' to fully interface with the OS like MS' own 'middleware' does. (This is a big one)
MS must also release any communication protocol necessary to communicate with a MS server OS.
MS cannot retaliate or threaten retaliation against any vendor for developing or selling things that compete with them.
"Set Program Access and Defaults" is required.
In addition, the users must be able to enable or disable any automatic launching of MS 'middleware'.
End-users and non-MS 'middleware' products must be able to transparently replace the MS 'middleware'.
An MS OS cannot modify or alter anything that an OEM does to the desktop without first getting confirmation from the user.
HOWEVER:
No provision of the agreement forces MS to disclose anything that might hurt the OS security. (This is very vague and I predict will be the biggest loophole.)
--
I haven't read the rest of the decree, I just wanted to get this up. And IANAL, but I think the interpretations I've provided are reasonable.
The site is slashdotted, but I don't feel I'm missing anything. Microsoft has ignored any court mandated restrictions on it behavior that it didn't like in the past, and I see no reason why that would change now. Conduct remedies are irrelevant. The only result that matters is whether, when this phase is over, other companies will be able to sue Microsoft for damages caused by their violations of anit-trust law. If the settlement prevents that, then Microsoft has, once again, gotten off scott free.
...competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware;
:-)
2. shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with more than one Operating System; or
So I think this is the first nail in Palladium's coffin. This legalese seems to imply that Microsoft is barred of collusion with OEMs that would block middleware or OSs that would compete with Microsoft. Which is, at the core, EXACTLY what Palladium would do.
Nice to see that the DoJ can kill two birds with one stone.
blog |
Hmm. How do you so clearly differentiate between their business model and their business practices? Doesn't the one describe and define the other?
Personally, I hate their business model, their practices, and most of their products.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
to deliver a few hundred characters of ASCII. By delivering these judgments (and there are gazillions of those in the site) in some more sensible (and at the same time more user friendly) format they could probably order everyone a free pizza instead for spending it on bandwith. It's just incredibly stupid to download stuff in more than *20 excess size and to launch a and need an external program to view the content. Hey, but it's official it got to be PDF!
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
Defendant.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Civil Action No. 98-1232 (CKK)
ORDER
Presently pending before the Court is a proposed consent decree submitted by the parties
in the above-captioned case. Following application of the Tunney Act, 15 U.S.C. 16(b)-(h), and
upon a finding pursuant 15 U.S.C. 16(e) that, with the exception of VII of the proposed final
judgment ("SRPFJ"), entry of the SRPFJ as the final judgment in this action is in the public
interest, as set forth in the accompanying Memorandum Opinion, it is this 1st day of November,
2002, hereby
ORDERED that the SRPFJ is conditionally approved as the final judgment in this case;
and it is further
ORDERED that, in order to obtain final approval of the SRPFJ, Plaintiff and Microsoft
shall submit to the Court a proposed amendment to VII addressing the concerns described in the
accompanying Memorandum Opinion; and it is further
ORDERED that such proposed amendment shall be submitted to the Court not later than
November 8, 2002.
SO ORDERED.
_____________________________
COLLEEN KOLLAR-KOTELLY
United States District Judge
A. Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against an OEM by altering Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by withholding newly introduced forms of non-monetary Consideration (including but not limited to new versions of existing forms of non-monetary Consideration) from that OEM, because it is known to Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating...exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final Judgment.
Wow, how many times have we heard of companies complaining about just this thing happening to them? I hope this legislation does improve the computer market...
However, I worry on one point. The judgement states "...known to Microsoft that the OEM..." What if it isn't known to Microsoft, but it is merely suspected by Microsoft? That technicality would give Microsoft pre-emptive monopolistic powers which wouldn't be restricted by this settlement.
$8.95/mo web hosting
Take SMB for instance. The Samba project is working on Version 3.0 which will allow full integration with Active Directory. However, since a large part of this is authentication MS could use this provision to deny access to the API's that would make Samba completely compatible.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
Sheesh....there had to be catch...
Any bets on how long it'll take microsoft to declare the whole OS a rights protection management system so they don't have to give up any of the API?
-PARANOIA is fun. D20 is not fun. The Computer says so.
-The Computer
Oh. That sounds like a good one. All Microsoft has to do is hide their IP under shill companies, and they've got instant protection. ...and don't think they won't do it if it is an issue.
What if you have two things?
Better to understand one Thing than clueless about two. -- Anonymous Coward
Help fight continental drift.
The readers of slashdot were not the _only_ people anticipating the judgement. Every news organization + people in the financial industry + millions of shareholders are also following the story.
Oh, and maybe the people working at Microsoft cared a little too.
I find it humorous to see Slashdot constantly bashing Microsoft. Some of it is deserved but just as much is juvenile ranting. However, I'm deeply entertained to see a Microsoft ad regularly popping up on Slashdot and other OSDN sites. It used to be a rare thing to see that but now I see it on every third or fourth page.
Has Slashdot reached a point where the only way they can afford to continually rant against Microsoft is by accepting money from them?
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
They could slap that on just about anything!
Now THAT'S a good way to retain investor confidence. 10 minutes before markets closed too. Not a good pr move, if anything. It makes it seem like they're really scared.
so nobody's going to be able to download the relevant .pdf files for a while.
chances are good that we won't hear some news in the mainstream channels for at least several hours.
unless there's a way to request a fax version, i just don't see how anyone will be able to get their hands on the judgement before the market closes today.
am i the only one that imagines an opportunity to capitalize on this in the stock market?
--
Long-term effects of Bush deficits
This is the biggest sham I have seen in recent memory. Microsoft has manipulated more markets and sabotaged more competitors than any other company I can think of in any other industry.
Capitalism once again is showing that it is flawed in allowing any one organization such dominace which allows it to usurpp any and all competiton.
Looks to me like M$ will finally be motivated to document it's APIs. Now the question is will M$ still do a click thru before you can read the documentation?
"D. Starting at the earlier of the release of Service Pack 1 for Windows XP or three months
after the entry of this Final Judgment, Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs,
ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating
System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar
mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product. For purposes of this Section
III.D, the term APIs means the interfaces, including any associated callback interfaces,
that Microsoft Middleware running on a Windows Operating System Product uses to call
upon that Windows Operating System Product in order to obtain any services from that
Windows Operating System Product. In the case of a new major version of Microsoft
Middleware, the disclosures required by this Section III.D shall occur no later than the
last major beta test release of that Microsoft Middleware. In the case of a new version of
a Windows Operating System Product, the obligations imposed by this Section III.D shall
occur in a Timely Manner."
just go use windows you useless chud licker
give up when you can't click "OK" to make something work and whine about how hard it is to read the README
only ever try things that work the first time you use them and put up with all the annoying problems you have because it is "easier" than learning something that works the way it should
Intifada Jihad!!
All your crap software doesnt belong to us!
The States will form a committee and get to look at all MS code, documents, etc, etc as relating to the decree and MS must get a compliance officer too.
MS has to disclose apis,protocols but not those which would compramise security, licences, IP, drm, etc to businesses. I guess that might include book publishers so they'll be pretty much open, I think.
There will be bickering b/c of overlapping. Not sure how they'll settle that kind of thing.
OEMs cannot be discriminated against for selling linux/non-ms boxen. (Yippi!)
OEMs can add their own icons, etc.
users/OEMs can add/remove MS "middleware" via start button.
That is my quick read summary!
I missed lots of stuff no doubt.
Looks like the ruling is not in MS's favour to me.
Cheers,
-b
I respect your opinion for saying so, but I detest Microsoft for almost the same reasons you like them.
Microsoft has done absolutely NOTHING to make my life easier; in fact, they've done just the opposite. I'm FORCED into working with their products at work; in fact in ANY work place I would go to. There is no choice, I can't simply "avoid" them. At home, I'm -almost- forced to endure the Microsoft legacy--klunky PC hardware (although Mac OSX gives me reason for joy). For a DECADE or more any real alternatives have been squelched and killed by Microsoft.
If I could avoid them, I would. But I can't. It's pretty much impossible. That's why I despise them. When I got into computing, it was a world full of possibility and wonder. In 10 short years it has been reduced to a smoking ruin, ruled over by a despot. Computing is NOT fun anymore, and Microsoft is the reason.
...to address Microsoft crimes that were committed since the last lawsuit began, which were not considered in this (now old) case.
My God! It's full of Voids!
The day we have all been waiting for is here. The judge has ordered an immediate breakup of Microsoft.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs, IHVs, IAPs, ICPs, and OEMs, for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN") or similar mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware
As I read this, that means that you or I (or the Samba team) will not get to see those APIs.
Transcript show: self sigs atRandom.
Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux. Thus anything in this settlement that helps or hinders Linux is what's going to make a real difference in competition. Reading through the settlement, Linux cannot take advantage of any of this.
To summarize, there are several clauses about opening up the API's and protocols. This openess must be provided to OEM's, etc, on a "reasonable and non-discriminatory basis". This "reasonable and non-discrimantor" rule allows for charging of royalties and restricting distribution and sub-licensing of the intellectual property. So even if they provide this information at no cost or minimal cost they can make it impossible for any such information to every make it into GPL software.
So folks, I hope you enjoyed have your tax dollars flushed down a toilet.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
MOD PARENT UP!!!!!!
this is not offtopic!
The original proposed settlement on the surface seemed to be a solution but it has so many loopholes to be almost worthless. This settlement seems to be or be based on the original proposed settlement. Are any of the loopholes originally present still there or have they been eliminated?
I noticed that the security exception is still there, what about the others?
representatives of the plaintiff States, on reasonable notice to Microsoft and
subject to any lawful privilege, shall be permitted the following:
Wow, wouldn't we want to be on a States duly authorized represantative for our state? Call you congressman and then call Microsoft and say "Show me the code!!!!"
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Technobabble meets Lawyer speak and makes totally incomprehensible language.
Granted, what I did understand looks good to me.
Question: When will we get a compiler to spit out java bytecode for this decision and install the new version into the Microsoft Corporate App Server? Because frankly, expecting a human being to follow this judgement is just as good as expecting a human being to parse parallel super computer algorithms in their head. Sure there are a few people who can do it, but they probably have better things to do with their time. At least I hope that they do.
Its a real shame that the judgement wasnt just this:
"PLAY NICE"
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
If you want to make something of it heres the intraday view of msft at
yahoo
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
I'm amazed that this post hasn't been modded as 'Flamebait' yet. Or 'Funny' may be?
there's no place like ~
In a bit I will be posting an amazingly insightful comment about the Microsoft judgement.
This is the best part. There's a standard schedule for costs for everyone. You can't brown-nose Microsoft and get special deals, and Microsoft can't punish you by raising your costs for licenses.
You buy licenses at the same rate as everyone else (who buys in the same quantities for the same languages as you do).
This means that if Dell is the largest buyer of MS Licenses, it doesn't matter what they do, they get the cheapest rate. Likewise, any company that buys 2,000 Windows licenses gets the same rate, whether they are MS Fanboys or Sun Microsystems.
Of course, a big "in theory" is added to all this.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
Mainly the other states which haven't agreed yet, it ain't over till it's over. In fact the judge preciding the case mentioned:
"If Microsoft thinks that it has gotten off easy, please remember that the full judgement of the courts of this country have yet to be reached, and as such the company should expect a long and hard road should they not comply with additional measures voluntarily. It would not bode well should they attempt to circumvent the decisions of this court, and would certainly not reflect in a positive way on their corporate practices. As once stated by Henry Ford: 'In these times a buisiness must stand for one thing only, and that is most certainly not the GO-AN principle, that is: GO-AN Fuck yourself'."
To conclude the judge was quoted as saying: "Remember the great smee. As in: Smee again, GO-AN fuck yourself. Thank you microsuck you heartless bunch of sons of bitches."
They can still hide API calls if they feel that it might effect security!
"Okay, we are here to decide which API calls to disclose... Let's look at the first one..."
"Hmmm.. This looks like a dangerous one to disclose.. If we disclose this one our competition will be able to make products that work as well as our products do with Windows. We would loose sales and that would take away revenue. With out the revenue we won't be able to hire as many software engineers. With out the engineers our products will be less secure..."
"Okay no on the first one. Next API..."
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Fuck.
Nope, no sig
The language in the new ruling states that Microsoft must publish a standard schedule of fees for all OEMs. The former loophole should be effectively eliminated.
"Such an amendment would not appear to work a fundamental change to the parties' agreement" - Opinion on the State Settlement
Monopolies no longer need to fear the legal system
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
The SRPFJ is the "States recommendation for proposed final judgement", or something like that. So it seems to have been passed, along WITH the DOJ's (see FinalDecree.pdf), with the condition by November 8th they combine all of the restrictions into one document.
That seems to be everything we could have hoped for. The DOJs settlement was tissuepaper weak, but with the States' remedies included, it may be worthwhile.
I can't locate the states submission to see exactly what their remedies are.
"Nothing in this Final Judgement is intended to confer upon any other persons any rights or remedies of any nature whatsoever hereunder or by reason of this Final Judgement."
Meaning...we, the average citizens, still don't get squat.
Your right, after all we don't want to take any time away from the /. editors that they could be using to spell check/grammar check/dup check stories.
He's sold off an additional 6 million over the last week too. Think he knew bad things were coming?
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/m/msft.html
1. Installing, and displaying icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for, any Non-Microsoft
Middleware or any product or service (including but not limited to IAP products
or services) that distributes, uses, promotes, or supports any Non-Microsoft
Middleware, on the desktop or Start menu, or anywhere else in a Windows
Operating System Product where a list of icons, shortcuts, or menu entries for
applications are generally displayed, except that Microsoft may restrict an OEM
from displaying icons, shortcuts and menu entries for any product in any list of
such icons, shortcuts, or menu entries specified in the Windows documentation as
being limited to products that provide particular types of functionality, provided
that the restrictions are non-discriminatory with respect to non-Microsoft and
Microsoft products.
So, I'm an OEM that is trying to make a name as "The Scientists' OEM" or some such thing. Microsoft doesn't make a suite of tools for measuring volcanic or platonic shifts and vibrations, or whatever. So does that mean that Microsoft can tell me (the OEM) that I can't put icons and shortcuts for all the scientific tools I'm trying to push as value-add as the OEM?
put the what in the where?
I know I sound like a MS shill most every time I post, but even though I generally defend Windows, IE, .NET, MSSQL server, etc., I've always been very crtical about MS's OEM licensing. Although I honestly don't believe that 1-4yrs ago BeOS or Linux had a chance even IF people baught dual booted Dells, however, I think that a product should be successful based SOLEY ON MERIT and not strong-armed contracts. I'm glad that what I've read so far prohibits this kind of behavior, and I hope to read more about punishment.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I mean we knew they weren't getting broken up, and we know that this isn't the end of Anti-MS litigation, but is the big iceberg over?
And can we all move on with our lives now?
Schnapple
Remember, they CAN withold information pertaining to antivirus, DRM, and anti-piracy measures. And a lawyer can easily argue this covers 100% of Palladium's "ideas"
I wish it did mean goodbye though.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Reuters continues to beat the hell out of
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
How did this get modded up? It's a first post, off topic, and a troll. The author probably has a keyboard macro with that text preprogrammed for any MS related topic.
Losers.
"Here are the links to the as-yet-unreleased judgement..."
/. editors can now claim a first-post themselves.
Wow! This puts a whole new meaning to "first-post".
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
Thank you Colleen Kollar-Kotelly. You had a chance to do something important and good, but you bowed to money. Your life story is now rated "Mostly Harmless".
actual net worth - - a few billion $ actual cost for all M$ products - - five dollars paying off a few "key" people - - a few million $ maintaining your monopoly - - priceless sum sh!t like that
Jihad! Anoymous Coward is everywhere!
That it is not a BAD thing to be successfull. It is inherently irrational to punish someone for being good at what they do.
Absofuckingloutly hilarious! Good points though, I only WISH our DOJ would say that to Microsoft, or any of the other soul sucking corporations out there! Power to the people!
I don't think he really gives a shit about investor confidence.
He's rich. The government gave him something approaching carte blanche to continue his empire building. He'll sell now to make money, and FUCK the poor sod who has faith in his ruthless company.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Perhaps, but any ISV that works on Samba will have access. Further, it should be quite easy for the Samba team to organize as a not-for-profit corporation to qualify as an ISV if they do not already.
More worrisome is the RAND licensing provision.
The judge didn't want to post this until after the markets closed on Friday, because she recognized that it would boost MSFT stock otherwise. They get a slap on the wrist, investors breath a sigh of relief, and buy, buy, buy. Unless you do it when the market is off for two days - by Monday, it's not on everyone's mind anymore.
Instead, some idiot put the PDF's up today, and Slashdot gets ahold of it. They post the links, and by tomorrow morning, everyone knows what's going to happen. Microsoft stock goes up, and michael goes down as a great Microsoft supporter.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
This is a small victory for Consumers. All it does is specificaly outline a few rules taht MS can't do becuase of existing laws. It opens up API's but usingthem helps to bolster MS hold on computers. The other thing i see happening is MS figuring out something else to use to control the Computer Industry to there benefit. Luckily they don't have as much control as apple does over the MAC. I do use XP and think taht simply hiding the Outlook Reliance on MSN Messenger and other dependencies is not enough. MS needs to be forced to remove these depedencies.
It seems strange that they can hide details related to security. Open source software has proven that a system can show every implementation detail without becoming insecure. I'm not saying that I support the actions against MS, but something smells funny. It would be sad if every version of Windows had giant security holes that would be revealed if the implementation details were made public.
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
"Damn lawyer-speak."
That's the curse that man has had to bear since God punsished us for the temerity to build a tower to Heaven.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Not only that, but it looks like she imposed it on the Dissenting 9 as well!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
I've read completely everything but the almost 350 page Memorandum Opinion, which I have skimmed looking for The Court's (TM) ruling on the standing of/remedy for the non-settling states.
I have seen nothing....am I missing something? Does this thing continue on, or did the non-settling states get the proverbial finger? (From what I've read so far, they haven't gotten much sympathy from the judge.)
I use both M$ and linux (mandrake to be exact) and I have found myself using linux more and more and Windows less and less. Linux is just as easy to learn. It's just that people are trained to use M$ products in school. Someday, schools might begin to wisen up (some already have).
(-1 Libertarian bullshit)
Mac OSX !!
I do rather like their mouse and joysticks. Just wish I didn't have to use their software with them.
I find computing extremely fun. I use several OSs, languages, and products and almost every single day I write code, play games, find interesting things on the 'net, and keep in contact with friends. I still see (after almost 20 years of programming now - started when I was around 14) a world full of possibility and wonder in computers.
they wanted to test out the new /. servers, this big story is the way to do it.
Runnin' On Empty
This reasonable and nondiscriminatory language is EXACTLY the same as the RAND patent fee language we all hated so much in a recent W3C proposal.
If this is indeed the final determination, then it's basically a court-order for Microsoft to help everyone *except* free software projects.
It's almost worse than before.
...it will look like this: /. posting too many anti-Microsoft posts.
86% - Yeah! Linux Rules! MS Sucks!
10% - Trolls
2% - People speculating about what the actual ruling will be before it is published, based only on rumor and hearsay.
2% - People complaining about
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
I come to read the comments about the Microsoft Antitrust Case and what do I see? An ad for Microsoft Visual Studio .NET... Irony... I think not..
If you're looking here for something insightful or thought provoking, you're probably looking in the wrong place.
Start quote:
---
11
J. "Microsoft Middleware" means software code that
1. Microsoft distributes separately from a Windows Operating System Product to
update that Windows Operating System Product;
2. is Trademarked or is marketed by Microsoft as a major version of any Microsoft
Middleware Product defined in section VI.K.1; and
3. provides the same or substantially similar functionality as a Microsoft
Middleware Product.
Microsoft Middleware shall include at least the software code that controls most or all
of the user interface elements of that Microsoft Middleware. Software code described as part of,
and distributed separately to update, a Microsoft Middleware Product shall not be deemed
Microsoft Middleware unless identified as a new major version of that Microsoft Middleware
Product. A major version shall be identified by a whole number or by a number with just a single
digit to the right of the decimal point.
K. "Microsoft Middleware Product" means
1. the functionality provided by Internet Explorer, Microsoft's Java Virtual
Machine, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, Outlook Express and
their successors in a Windows Operating System Product, and
2. for any functionality that is first licensed, distributed or sold by Microsoft after
the entry of this Final Judgment and that is part of any Windows Operating
System Product
a. Internet browsers, email client software, networked audio/video client
software, instant messaging software or
b. functionality provided by Microsoft software that --
i. is, or in the year preceding the commercial release of any new
Windows Operating System Product was, distributed separately by
Microsoft (or by an entity acquired by Microsoft) from a Windows
Operating System Product;
ii. is similar to the functionality provided by a Non-Microsoft
Middleware Product; and
iii. is Trademarked.
Functionality that Microsoft describes or markets as being part of a Microsoft Middleware
Product (such as a service pack, upgrade, or bug fix for Internet Explorer), or that is a version of
a Microsoft Middleware Product (such as Internet Explorer 5.5), shall be considered to be part of
that Microsoft Middleware Product.
---
End of Quote
So it covers most of the stuff Microsoft is currently trying to pass off as Integral to the system, and they're at least trying to make an effort to indentifying future middleware. It depends on how vigiliant the Committee is going to be...
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
:)
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
Sweet! Interoperability here we come!
put the what in the where?
I actually just finished an article on my website about why I will not support microsoft by purchasing or stealing copies of their software. I stand strongly behind my morals. I don't give a serial killer a 4th chance to prove himself reformed.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool my twice, shame on me."
Please, read what I wrote and tell me if you would still support Microsoft.
and I apologize for any spelling errors. I haven't had a chance to proofread yet.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
The Micros*ft fan club just drives me nuts, because they're sooooo unimaginative, uninformed, or both. Yes of course XP is decent, but they appear to have no concept of how much better things could have been had Micros*ft not engaged in anticompetetive behaviour, in particular their habit of destroying standards to lock people in.
Had they never existed, computing would likely not be the godawful mess it is today, and something like the recent MacOS would have come out 5 years ago.
Anyway, when I see posts in praise of MS I can only assume that either there's astroturfing going on, or the person is simply ignorant. Please, people, use your imaginations. Try this:
Did anyone actually read FinalDecree.pdf? Kotar-Kotelly has ordered that Microsoft has to open it's API's to competitors for five years . This is the equivalent of a death sentence for Microsoft. All successfuly software companies close their source code and API's to protect themselves from theft by their competition. Now that Microsoft's designs and components are out in the open, they are ripe for picking by the Japanese competitors that have been scoping out the American software market for years.
This is the death of American dominance in the software industry. The Japanese are going to use this crippling disadvantage to reverse engineer Windows with cheap, foreign labor (Indian coding sweatshops and the like) just like they've done with other industries.
Mark my words, in ten years you'll all be using NEC/OS.
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
In the past three days, Billy has sold over 3 million shares @ about 50bucks a pop. Do the math.
See here for proof
That's great. I bet he saw the writting on the wall on this one. The great wall of MS is coming down!
For those who can't get at the main site, here's a mirror of all the documents
In my reading of these documents, it seems that while there significant positive elements to the decision, there are many loopholes for microsoft to slither though. I'm just waiting for every license agreement to be re-characterized as a joint venture.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Dude, be thankful that it's not a 10-MB 2-page word document! plus, how ironic would that be?
MS: I gots a question for you Ms. Judge
Judge: Yes, the ruling is final however
MS: Jus' one question. Ever seen Bill Gates
Judge: Um... yeah, why?
MS: Does he look like a bitch?
Judge: Um... I don't see what this has to do with anything...
MS: DOES HE LOOK LIKE A BITCH!?
Judge: No... not really but I still don't...
MS: Then why did you fuck him like a bitch?
Seems to me this judgement is a reasonable attempt to prevent M$ from engaging in anti-competitive tactics it has used in the past, and it gives authorities some remedy if this judgement is not followed. Of course, it does nothing to prevent M$ from dreaming up new anti-competitive practices, but it's hard to prevent things when you don't know what form they will take.
Brevity is the soul of wit
-- Polonius
Ah well.. it was a nice thought. I guess we'll be back here in about 4 years when MS violates every intent of this agreement.
Btw, in this statement:
Nothing in this provision shall prohibit Microsoft from enforcing any provision of any license with any OEM or any intellectual property right that is not inconsistent with this Final Judgment. Microsoft shall not terminate a Covered OEM's license for a Windows Operating System Product without having first given the Covered OEM written notice of the reasons for the proposed termination and not less than thirty days' opportunity to cure.
What the hell is a Covered OEM and who decides if an OEM is "covered" or not?
"I drank what?" - Socrates
Where's the part about Steve Balmer sitting on Bill Gates until he screams "uncle?" Or the part where Bill Gates goes to hell and is forced to take a pineapple up the backside every day? Or the part where we can send all those illegal post-dated EULA's back to Redmond where they have to eat each one of them? What about the part where Microsoft has to use open source in their corporate headquarters? What about rewriting Visual Studio in Mozilla? What about the public apology? What about splitting in two because it was the right thing to do?
I see none of that!
Wait... that was never in there?
Rats. I was hoping...
This space for rent.
Does this mean what I think it means?
E. Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall
make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or
communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and
non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol
that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented
in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to
interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the
client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product.
My
Limekiller
It looks like the noise from the anti-MS contingent has helped to get MS off perhaps more lightly than they might have done: Kollar-Kotelly takes the plaintiffs to task for exaggerating the significance of Microsoft's wrongdoings, and for proposing remedies which would be inappropriate -- "Plaintiffs have shown little respect for the parameters of liability that were so precisely delineated by the appellate court." (Opinion P200).
Our Subway started offering the option of toasting the subs (at no extra charge!) not too long ago. You just can't beat a toasted meatball sub, even on Whopper Wednesday. Does anybody else's Subway offer this service?
Yeah, the Bill of Rights was supposed to quash things like the DMCA...
That didn't happen (yet).
I can't tell if they announced the final decree in the Microsoft case, or if they're trying to say the employees of Microsoft caught some kind of new STD.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
but then again, who wants to, or is ABLE to compete with Microsoft?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Well, since the links were not publicly accessible yet, and had not yet been officially released, this may constitute hacking according to some individuals (see thread about reuters).
Thanks to slashdot for making us all criminals.... i feel l33t now...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
OK, so I have read the PDFs and the comments on /.
Apparently about 1% of the readers really understood the judgement, the rest of the comments seem to be more or less random for/against Microsoft mubo jumbo.
Let's go back to the good old tradition of posting links to CNet and The Register for some pre digested journalist speak so that the ./ readership atleast has some tiny chanse of understanding what they are blabbing about.
And finally, congrats to Microsoft, you got it your way again!
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/62/412.html
this means nothing...
he sells shares ever day/week/month all the time
Runnin' On Empty
Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only.
So what bone do you think they will through us? What I mean is will they give some out-dated API set for IE integration and say that they are going over and above the antitrust agreement or what?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
From what it looks like, Slashdot posted these links before they were officially released by the Judge.
If one had purchased MSFT stock based on the early release of these documents, would that have been insider trading? Do hidden links referenced in a slashdot post count as public information?
Disclaimer: I didn't read this story until after the markets closed at 4pm, and I have no position in Microsoft stock.
IBM or Apple take over the computer software business, providing a relatively uniform and easy-to-use GUI?
What makes you think Microsoft is the only software company in the world that would become a monopoly? And what makes you think that they wouldn't use their monopolistic powers to enter other businesses?
Unless mankind redesigns itself
Wondering how some Slashdot reader was able to break this story a full hour before any other source?
/ -- they forgot to forbid people to get a directory listing, so it was easy for someone to just keep hitting Reload until some new files appeared. Nice going, webmaster@dcd.uscourts.gov! :)
Simple.
Check out http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2002/Kotelly
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Looks like they're going to need a "Compliance Officer." Think I'll submit my resume. I'm quite compliant, and I'll work for less than 100k. That's dollars, not stock.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
yes, I know, but the point is now of all times he should hold.
MS is a monopoly, and they can go on abusing the market with the belssing of the DOJ and the Federal Judgeship.
let us all thanbks bush for apointing ashcroft and show them how we feel......
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I like Microsoft.
The software store was selling them for 5 a piece. I thought that odd since they were normally a couple thousand each. I decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth. I bought 200. I like Microsoft.
I took my 200 Microsoft home. I have a big car. I let one drive. His name was Sigmund. He was retarded. In fact, none of them were really bright. They kept punching themselves in their genitals. I laughed. Then they punched my genitals. I stopped laughing.
I herded them into my room. They didn't adapt very well to their new environment. They would screech, hurl themselves off of the couch at high speeds and slam into the wall. Although humorous at first, the spectacle lost its novelty halfway into its third hour.
Two hours later I found out why all the Microsoft were so inexpensive: they all died. No apparent reason. They all just sorta' dropped dead. Kinda' like when you buy a goldfish and it dies five hours later. Damn cheap Microsoft.
I didn't know what to do. There were 200 dead Microsoft lying all over my room, on the bed, in the dresser, hanging from my bookcase. It looked like I had 200 throw rugs.
I tried to flush one down the toilet. It didn't work. It got stuck. Then I had one dead, wet Microsoft and 199 dead, dry Microsoft.
I tried pretending that they were just stuffed animals. That worked for a while, that is until they began to decompose. It started to smell real bad.
I had to pee but there was a dead Microsoft in the toilet and I didn't want to call the plumber. I was embarrassed.
I tried to slow down the decomposition by freezing them. Unfortunately there was only enough room for two Microsoft at a time so I had to change them every 30 seconds. I also had to eat all the food in the freezer so it didn't all go bad.
I tried burning them. Little did I know my bed was flammable. I had to extinguish the fire.
Then I had one dead, wet Microsoft in my toilet, two dead, frozen Microsoft in my freezer, and 197 dead, charred Microsoft in a pile on my bed. The odor wasn't improving.
I became agitated at my inability to dispose of my Microsoft and to use the bathroom. I severely beat one of my Microsoft. I felt better.
I tried throwing them way but the garbage man said that the city wasn't allowed to dispose of charred software. I told him that I had a wet one. He couldn't take that one either. I didn't bother asking about the frozen ones.
I finally arrived at a solution. I gave them out as Christmas gifts. My friends didn't know quite what to say. They pretended that they like them but I could tell they were lying. Ingrates. So I punched them in the genitals.
I like Microsoft
Isn't this exactly what the preliminary settlement between the US DOJ and Microsoft was before? Or was it modified?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
why? any normal economical theory is void becuase of his SIXTY BILLION DOLLAR net worth... even in liquid assets, he doesn't have to have 'cash for a rainy day when he has a few hundred million in the bank.
Runnin' On Empty
As several other respondants have noted, this is largely a win for Microsoft and a loss for the States. What is surprising is the Judge K-K took so long to issue it.
The big deals the States asked for were removal of the "Security carve-out" (noted by several folks), and the appointment of a Special Master to create a streamlined enforcement process. Neither of these survived, and that is regrettable.
The security carve-out will make things difficult for third-party protocol implementors, and the enforcement provisions are lengthy, expensive, and easy for Microsoft to manipulate.
I spent a good deal of my recent life on this, and I'm upset. I need to read the full decisions in more detail, but other than a very generic win for States' Rights as a principle, this is essentially a no-op.
gnetwerker - $40k poorer, no wiser
-- Mark Lyon http://www.marklyon.org
Got a reference for this?
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
I like it.
I've joked with friends for quite some time.. If the government lets them off AGAIN, than maybe it is time to join the borg... Go take a nice six figure job at MSFT and FUCK EVERYONE who gets in the way.
That is the Microsoft way and apparently the American way.
Isn't that what our government is rewarding?
If there truly was no competition, it would suck. But if the playing field was truly even between several handfuls of OS developers we'd be swimming in a sea of incompatibilities. Our current situation may actually be the best possible.
It turns out, the S in SRPFJ is for second, not states. So CKK passed the worthless tissuepaper restriction set, with loopholes everywhere, and everything has to be RAND, which is completely useless to OSS. (though, since that is discriminatory, perhaps it can be argued they have to make it usable to GPLed programs... I couldn't find the courts definition of RAND anywhere)
I want my fucking tax dollars back that were wasted on this sham of a trial.
They didn't even solve the OEM issue, as now MSFT is issuing rebates, instead of up-front discounts, to OEMs that "play nice".
Well, MS got pretty much what they want. If they only have to disclose their APIs to other major corporations, the open source crowd is up the creek without a paddle.
. we can get a major corporation to get the API and then release code under a free license. Like, say, IBM could set up a group to contribute code to the WINE project, or to the OpenOffice.org project's .doc filter. Of course, MS will almost certainly try to tie down anybody who gets the code with EULAs that say "you can't release any code based on this information under open source licenses." But we can always hope.
Unless . .
There is no mention of the issue surrounding a hardware vendor's IP protection.
HP, for example, was not happy that MS was attempting to force immunity from all of HP's hardware patents in exchange for HP's ability to license MS software:
HP sent a letter to Microsoft specifically expressing concerns over the protection of its patents. The letter asserts that the new licensing terms create a one-way street, allowing Microsoft access to HP patents without paying for them.
This seems to be monopolistic anti-competitive behavior that was not dealt with by the court.
Their != They're
If you were truly dedicated to your cause, you wouldn't run ANY Microsoft software at all... not even for your game. You ask people to abandon Microsoft software and yet, you have not done so yourself so why should they? Since you DO run Microsoft software (after an essay about why you shouldn't use it and such), you are basically a hypocrit and your essay has no credibility.
The comment of 'restricting API to large commercial entities...'
Couldn't a Open Source backing vendor, such as Big Blue or the more Microsoft than they'll admit HP/Compaq get the API and use it any way that want?
Meaning Big Blue can license the API, and then using that license help the samba team develop any / all connection information that they need?
I mean not all code need be opensource. If Samba has a 'plug-in' type design done for it where you can purchase a 'SMB' file system plug-in for, then you could connect to MS Servers long enough to migrate people off of them.
We should think of methods to migration now, not overpowering them with a better product in most cases. That was Microsoft's main way of getting into the infrastructure, they built big ass migration tools. F&P for Netware, Quicken to MS Money conversion, those type of things.
my $0.02
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Clicky -Lucas
Bill Gates has 622,321,300 shares of M$. So selling 2 million would be approx 0.16% of this stake in the company. This looks less like the actions of a rat abandoning a sinking ship and more of a rich guy deciding to go shopping this weekend..
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion." --Jeffrey Goines
It just proves once again that if you have money you are above the law. Sure, a small/meaningless sentence may come down, but realistically Microsoft is not going to change. They now know they can get away with it, so they will continue with their business strategy.
With the recent EU decision with Nintendo, I only hope that the EU will not give into Microsoft and truly give them a punishment. If their that mean to lovable Mario, think about the blue screen of death.
Actually, why can't a person expect to click on "Ok" to make something work?
And since everything is a security risk, they can hide everything.
The mickeysoft trolls are out today!
Your "article" is nothing more than the same drivel that is posted everyday on Slashdot. It contains all the same FUD and is obviously biased. An article like that doesn't prove anything to anybody but I am sure it made you feel important.
he's only rich in net worth, aka, in his lil pieces of paper that say, you own too much m$ stock @ $50 a share... if investor confidence tanks, he tanks... he knows this, he isn't stupid, at least give the monopoligizing arsehole that, he IS smart.
Runnin' On Empty
Alex Trebeck: "Microsoft Antitrust Judgement"
*beep*beep*beep*
Contestant: "What is the sound of one wrist slapping, Alex?"
Alex Trebeck: "Yes for $400!"
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Has anyone else noticed this? Not one single thing has been done punishing Microsoft for their actions.
.dll that includes OS security and the copy/paste function all in one. Then of course there is the absence of provisions for OEMs to sell computers sans Windows.
Not to mention the security API. There is nothing keeping them from writing one big lump of
What a waste of taxpayers' money.
A text just plain stupid and full of lies and reality distortion.
:
... the Linux worst ennemy.
The overall idea sound to me like
"Why I dislike Christians" by an extremist Muslim.
or
"Why I dislike Yankees" by an extremist Seattle Mariners fan.
Linux Zealot... pffff
I work in a trading firm, we have a news service who relays this info as it come over a hoot n holler.
This is exactly why who appoints judges is so important. Conservatives have been appointing judges that are pro big business for the last 20 years or so.
With this being the result
he just wanted to have some spare change for his next fishing trip.
> Kollar-Kotelly accepts the settlement that the
> Federal Gov't and some states wanted, but she
> wants a minor change to it; and she has decided
> the case which was pursued by the other states as
> well, mostly ordering Microsoft to refrain from
> certain behaviors with regard to the user-visible
> desktop. Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who
> can restrict the release of its APIs to major
> commercial companies only.
*cough* Bullshit! *cough*
--Kevin
Unless you are already a well-established company or organization with a product that will benefit form being able to gain access to MS's APIs, this won't help you at all.
Picture this scenario: I would like to start a company that builds a piece of software that will use these APIs. But according to this agreement, the only benefits are for existing OEMs, etc. So this seems to me to be a situation where Microsoft can simply deny access to their APIs because a company doesn't have a product, and it would be a security risk to release the APIs to just anyone.
In my opinion this ruling and resolution does nothing for consumers or end-users, but has everything to do with big companies vs. the big company. I didn't read anything in the settlement about "users" or "consumers", but there were alot of acronyms describing companies.
When are the courts going to realize the country is made of PEOPLE, not companies, and the PEOPLE should see some benefit due to the harm that Microsoft's monopolistic practices caused. It seems to me that the only 'entities' that benefit by this decision are other big companies. *sigh*
There are two huge "outs" for this:
1 - Microsoft claims most APIs as security related. A reasonable seeming argument could probably be made for a significant number of APIs of interest, particularly given that every API is a potential buffer overrun attack target.
2 - US Government order Microsoft not to reveal APIs as a national security issue.
Naw, it's just that the money vault he does his daily swimming laps in was running low. He needed the gold dubloons, not the cash.
Looks like the judge has approved most of the provisions I wonder whether the nine states, which had rejected the settlement will appeal Kollar-Kotelly's decision?
-renard
I have found that burning a doobie with the crew before going in to order will get good results.
Basically this says to me the judge has observed that MS has a record of working very hard to leverage ambiguity in prior judgements, coupled with the known slow pace of DOJ to evade restrictions.
Kollar-Kotelly as I read it has said here: "This court will be seeing that this history does not repeat itself. And all parties have 1 week to sign on.
go Judge!
Linux is Linux, if One need clarify their dist: <Dist>/GNU Linux
bsds are of course just BSD
Hey dude, not to flame bait you, but you've got to get the grammar correct if you expect people to take your complaint seriously.
And I quote, "Their liars, vandals, thiefs, bullies and defrauders all rolled into one."
That's the 4th sentance. First of all what about THEIR liars, vandals, THEIVES, bullies, and defrauders? Oh, you mean THEY'RE; the contraction meaning THEY ARE...just like you learned in 2nd grade.
Microsoft may be a lot of things, but MOST of their documentation is at least grammatically sound.
A few comments seem excited by the restrictions this places on Microsoft's relationships with OEMs. This is not news. That was part of the settlement MS reached with the Justice Dept. The 9 states were unsatisified with that settlement and were arguing for further penalties like making the code to IE open source, forcing MS to sell a company the rights to port Office to Linux, separating out IE from the Windows OS, and many other things.
The point is that the 9 states seem to have got NONE of the things they wanted. Microsoft Wins and wins BIG.
I'm not sure many of you would be as happy about those OEM restrictions the order talks about if you were more familiar with the history of this case. Those things were a baseline given.
We should now start taking bets on the demise of RealNetworks. Windows Media Player will be further incorporated into the OS now and just as they did with IE, they'll gain monopoly power in another software niche.
BWCarver
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
How can this judge possible believe that Microsoft will properly police themselves?
I'm actually not very interested in this part of the fight. It seems more important to me that Microsoft ware found guilty of being a monopoly and of abusing that position.
I know they have taken charges anticipating these suits but will it be enough? If a tobacco company can be fined 10's of billions in punitive damages then so too can Microsoft.
I know it will drag on for a long while but between Linux eroding their revenue stream
and the periodic huge fine, they could hopefully feel some pain in the long-term.
The site and mirrors here seem to be /.ed... if you have freenet, you can get some of the documents here. The text of the final decree itself was already pasted further up:
I nt Ord.pdfA gM/StateS ettlement.pdff D-iEPAgM/States ord.pdfA gM/Lit11- 1.pdf
freenet:SSK@5jbqMhl845DGz~d2sQOdWPfD-iEPAgM/Pub
freenet:SSK@5jbqMhl845DGz~d2sQOdWPfD-iEP
freenet:SSK@5jbqMhl845DGz~d2sQOdWP
freenet:SSK@5jbqMhl845DGz~d2sQOdWPfD-iEP
M$ is extremely arrogant. The only time this has been repressed at all is when M$ was trying to say, "See, aren't we a good company?" Even then, they have shown an arrogance that is unbelievable and shows that they truly don't understand that anybody has any rights other M$ and that M$ is always right. Now that they've only been slapped on the hand, we can, of course, expect the arrogant behavior to get worse.
More and more companies are switching to Open Source Software because they're fed up with M$. If M$ were reigned in, that would reduce the frustration other companies have with them. On the other hand, since they have essentially no consequences that hurt them, as their attitude gets worse, so will frustration.
It's like being a kid in school and being beat up by the bully. As the bully's arrogance increases, he thinks he's more and more immune to what anyone can do. Eventually he tries to take on the whole class, everyone sees what he's really like, and suddenly the bully is left standing there, like the Emperor in his new clothes.
M$ attitude is a good reason for people to switch from them. The worse it gets, the more will switch. The Judge has just given them permission to show their worst behavior. Just how much of that will the market bear?
Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only.
..., for the sole purpose of interoperating with a Windows Operating System Product, via the Microsoft Developer Network or similar mechanisms, the APIs and related Documentation that are used by Microsoft Middleware to interoperate with a Windows Operating System Product."
Where does it say that? According to the ruling:
"Microsoft shall disclose to ISVs
"The term APIs means the interfaces, including any associated callback interfaces, that Microsoft Middleware running on a Windows Operating System Product uses to call upon that Windows Operating System Product in order to obtain any services from that Windows Operating System Product."
"'ISV' means an entity other than Microsoft that is engaged in the development or marketing of software products."
I am an ISV.. I develop software products. Therefore MS must release APIs to me!
This settlement, as weak as it is, will directly aid and assist WINE.
IANAL, but having just read the 300+ pages of the opinion, it looks as if MS gets just about everything they were seeking. Any lawyers care to comment on this?
Just FYI. You may proceed.
At this point...do the states appeal the decision? Microsoft stated that it would appeal a decision going against them, why can't the states?
And what about the numerous other lawsuits (such as from Sun or AOL or what not)?
Just because the judge said the settlement is ok, I wouldn't expect it to end here. Numerous other lawsuits are still out there and Microsoft will undoubtly be back in court as a competitor sues them for breaking details in this settlement (espically that withholding information for security purposes).
Yahoo link
"The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said. "
Oh Good. We have nothing to worry about.
Next in the news: Criminals will now be their own probation officers.
It seems that the agreement basically says that microsoft must stop breaking the law (in certain ways) for a period of 5 years after that apparently they're fully authorized to continue with the illegal behaviour.
So you are basically saying that it is ok for software you pay for to NOT work when you click the OK button at times and that everyone should have to go read the README file? And that your program shouldn't work the first time, but should work when you re-run it with some slightly different input?
I really hope you don't ever get hired to develop software for anything that is intended for the general public.
BGate's whore,Colleen Kollar-Kotelly
does another trick for her pimp.
"MSFT squashes potential rivals and potentially superior products and services."
Netscape? Superior? This is definitely a troll.
Chances are that some team of investors are just diversifying his portfolio as they have been doing for years.
Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux.
No. If MS had serious competiton, they wouldn't be a monopoly and they could do whatever the heck they wanted.
This settlement takes MS's monopoly as a given--just like the monopoly of AC power, cable companies, or gasoline is a given--and blocks MS from interfering with companies that want to compete with MS's non-OS products.
Windows' monopoly will not, should not, and shall not be compromised by this judgement alone. However, the monopoly that IE, Outlook, and Office have is now, rightfully, possible to challenge within the next five years.
If this was say a non-american company, or a company that didn't top the list in political contributions. I wonder how differently the result would have been. As this really does make a joke of the American legal system: Get Proven Guilty for a crime, which has been proven (not supposed, but proven) to have sent many thousands without their jobs, and many large companies into tiny small ones. All that the American government will give you is a slap on the wrist. It figures that MS in NYC illegally plastered MSN8 butterflies everywhere. As should the government take any action it is apparent that it comes out far more cost effective to just break the law and deal with the platry legal consequences.
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: (a) portions of
APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the
disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or
group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights
management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation,
keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or (b) any API, interface or
other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do
so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
2. Prevent Microsoft from conditioning any license of any API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol related to anti-piracy systems, anti-virus technologies,
license enforcement mechanisms, authentication/authorization security, or third
party intellectual property protection mechanisms of any Microsoft product to any
person or entity on the requirement that the licensee: (a) has no history of
software counterfeiting or piracy or willful violation of intellectual property
rights, (b) has a reasonable business need for the API, Documentation or
Communications Protocol for a planned or shipping product, (c) meets
reasonable, objective standards established by Microsoft for certifying the
authenticity and viability of its business, (d) agrees to submit, at its own expense,
any computer program using such APIs, Documentation or Communication
Protocols to third-party verification, approved by Microsoft, to test for and ensure
verification and compliance with Microsoft specifications for use of the API or
interface, which specifications shall be related to proper operation and integrity of
the systems and mechanisms identified in this paragraph.
We're sorry, we don't consider giving binaries and source code away for free a viable business model. Go away Samba team. What? What's that about interoperating with Exchange? Yeah, right! Go away stupid free groupware project.
put the what in the where?
MS has only to notify an OEM licensee twice before they can terminate without notice, and presumably without cause. How quickly will the notices fly so that MS is back in the saddle again?
This wasn't posted before the judgement. It was released after trading hours or thereabouts. Trading ends at 4pm EST. Even if you sold MSFT stock before the release of the judgement, it wouldn't be insider trading since the DOJ had already made the announcement that the judgement would come today. It was already made public.
upps, nevermind. Should have read the other responses :-)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
Yup. Most of the people who read this board weren't around in the early 80s. It was a glorious time for computer nerds but it was horrid for anyone who actually wanted to use computers for small business. There were cases where if you wanted to use Application1 (which only ran on ComputerBrandX) AND Application2 (which only ran on ComputerBrandY) you had to either do without or buy multiple sets of hardware in addition to multiple sets of software. OR, you could force yourself to use whatever was available for one hardware platform, even if it meant using some *really* crappy software.
Another thing people fail to remember is that Microsoft was nowhere near a Monopoly back then (actually, they didn't really have anything at all). For some reason, people started using Microsoft products before Microsoft was a monopoly and could force their software on people.
I wonder how many people remember when graphics cards came out, you had software that worked in CrapGA OR it would work with VideoCard001 from CompanyY. (It wasn't that long ago when video games were developed for Glide/VGA - if you didn't have a 3dfx card, you had to live with slow/ugly graphics) Due to some forms of video card driver standardization, those things don't matter anymore when you go buy a game.
To some degree, people got tired of the incompatibilities and started going with 'standard' software and at some point, the computer became a common (if not required) tool (yup... tool, not religion) in the officeplace.
All in all, there is 'having fun' which was even bigger in the early 80s than today (there were some *cool* machines back then and selection/diversity was far, far wider than today). But back then, only hobbiests/enthusiasts and businesses who could afford machines really had computers. Today, large numbers of people have these tools (yup, not hobbies, not religions) to have fun and do work. To most people, they could care less what hardware/software is running on their machine as long as it interoperates with the majority of other people out there who also have computers. Heck, most people couldn't tell you what chipset they have in their machine or how many PCI slots either -- they simply don't care. It's a tool. As long as it works with everybody else's tool they are happy. If it doesn't work with everyone else's tool, then they are not happy.
..looking at scene of a kitche BIll Joy and java developers have the purple dinosaur stufed into an voen and the oven turned on to 450.. ..and we canhear that stupid song turn into wicked screams of pian..
Moral..its develoeprs that take away MS's power..curerntly there are more java developers than MS and IBM employees combined..
and they don;t work for MS!
Don't Tread on OpenSource
The Federal deal is, surprise, accepted with minimal punishment for Microsoft. What does this do to the cases of the states who didn't decide to join the settlement?
Sorry Stephen Satchell, looks like you got no job.
As for the "corporate compliance committee"...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
- adam
The Loophole Clause (AKA section J) explicityly exempts anything having to do with "anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights management, encryption or authentication systems". What do you think Palladium is for?
Nope, no sig
by all means take your time in reading the opinion, but when you get the chance: how exactly were you involved in the settlement talks / case appeal / lobbying effort? and could you elaborate on how the settlement falls short of your (primary/central) hopes?
thanks in advance,
renard
... until their next extension, of course.
The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said.
If this charade of "law-enforcement in the USA" wasn't so ridiculous it'd actually be funny.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Windows' monopoly will not, should not, and shall not be compromised by this judgement alone. However, the monopoly that IE, Outlook, and Office have is now, rightfully, possible to challenge within the next five years.
However, I think a myriad of good things can come from this. Off the top of my head:
Look at this as smacking MS for abusing their monopoly, not the courts doing by fiat what Red Hat, Apple, and IBM have failed to do so far. You've got five years to out-do the "most bloated system in the world". I look foward to the results of this, even as I dread the /. bitching.
Gotta love the irony
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
Microsoft gets away with it. Just like they always do. Huge political contributions and a new administration taking over the white house probably didn't hurt. It sucks.
But seriously enough whining.
Linux/Unix/macos X are better than window. Really. I can't imagine programming/working on anything else but a unix based box right now. I don't miss windows at all.
Some of this Open source software is simply amazingly powerful. I downloaded fink (app-get for os-x) a couple days ago. Amazing how simple to install emacs, imagemagik and other open source goodies using fink. I was blown away.
There are tons of open-source programs that are simply the best stuff out there, Apache, perl, samba....
There is still lots of work to be done. Consider helping. Buy a naked pc, install linux/bsd. But a mac, install X, help port open source to it. Help out some projects, even start your own. Set up a linux server at work. Write some documentation that makes things clearer to those learning.
Sometimes opensource spawns rivalries. BSD vs Linux, KDE vs. Gnome. In someways this is bad, "competion is good", but confuses. These flame wars can become bitter and tiresome. Better solutions will be found and implimented and that is a great thing.
keep coding, keep thinking, keep using and keep giving back.
hehe, looks like someone used up all their mod points ;-)
Finally M$ gets what they deserve! Soon there will be linux and *bsd on every computer!!!!111
govmnt's inability to enforce earlier
agreements with microsoft forced original
suit. mickey says: "yeah sure" and does
what it wants anyway. mickey will fuck you
over for competing with them by leveraging
their monopoly. nothing has changed. gates wins.
score: MSFT 57 - USA 3
bend over!
This decision may be a great stride towards interoperability, finally... BUT, we must still continue to watch Microsoft like a hawk! They will stop at nothing to squirm right out and continue "business as usual". I just don't know if this resolution is going to be enough in the long run.
Meanwhile, my conversion to Linux continues...
-ZOD-
Here in Illinois a candidate for governor, Jim Ryan, agreed to the settlement. I wasn't planning to vote for him anyway, but I was reluctant to vote for his opponent as well -- I think this has changed my mind on that.
And of course this all happened because of the Executive's leadership in dealing with corporate crime -- the radical change in direction that the Justice Department took should be be clear to all. Bush isn't up for reelection, but his allies are. This is just one more instance where that party has shown itself an ally of corporate criminals.
Is this the end of the battle for either side? What about the Supreme Court, which had refered the case back to the lower courts. Will Microsoft or the States try for one last round? Anyone want to buy some stock in a small software company?
Yahoo!
"The decision [to bless most provisions of the Microsoft settlement] eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said."
Why don't we just revoke their corporate charter?
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/faq-corporate.htm
"Microsoft was incorporated in the state of Washington on June 25, 1981; reincorporated in the state of Delaware on September 19, 1986; and reincorporated in the state of Washington on November 1, 1993."
If it wasn't for the government incorporating Microsoft, and giving their investors immunity from their liabilities, they wouldn't be able to get away with all the things they do. Let Bill Gates make money on his own, without taxpayer help. Maybe he can move to communist China, which he seems to love so much that he makes the XBox there.
There are two types of people; those who divide people into two types of people, and those who don't.
Well, the actual linux client was supposed to be released with the windows client but that never happened. I bought the game to support the company's decision to support linux. I've also wrote them several time telling them this.
Since it wil hopefully be done soon, I'll be able to reconvert that partition back to linux. If it makes you feel better, I was off of microsoft for about 6 months before I bought this game. I wasn't too happy that it's taking this long.
I let people KNOW that I'm embarrassed I have it, and that I plan on changing it as soon as the client is released. if the client isn't released soon, you can bet it will be the last bioware game I buy for a loong time.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
Not quite:
"II. Applicability
This Final Judgment applies to Microsoft and to each of its officers, directors, agents,
employees, subsidiaries, successors and assigns; and to all other persons in active concert or
participation with any of them who shall have received actual notice of this Final Judgment by
personal service or otherwise."
Any kind of shill company would have to be controlled by one of the listed entities in order to keep control of the the IP. And the, company may be considered a " subsidiaries, successors and assigns". They might try, but would probably fail.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Dow Jones Business News had it at 1:52 PM--over an hour and a half earlier
The amount of money you threw at your lawyers. ($80,000,000)
"Gifts" to key government officials. ($20,000,000)
Propaganda designed to lure the public into complacity. ($20,000,000)
Getting off basically free of any real restrictions that will let you continue in basically the same manner as before, and any attempt to bring you to trial again will take another 5-10 years. Priceless.
(I'm itching to know the real numbers)
I'd love to share our SMB code with you...
Alas, our security teams are afraid that it may contain some bugs. Those could result in security compromises to our customers' systems. Don't worry - our systems really are safe - as long as we can keep the source code secret.
BTW - Make sure you don't buy any of that scary open source stuff. They don't hide their source, and hackers can go browsing for security holes in it anytime they want...
According to the timestamp, This Comment containing the complete text of the Final Decree was posted at 3:42PM EST, 18 minutes before the market closed.
I sir, am on the corporate compliance committee and I resent your previous remark. Let me assure that all stipulations expressed in the decree will be given the utmost scrutiny by our obfuscation, colloqiuization and philibusterization subcommittee.
We plan on issuing our final report right after we submit requests for the passage of the board of director compensation enhancement proxy vote.
Excuse me now, time for tea on the south lawn with lubby.
So Microsoft's board is going to make sure Microsoft is following the rules? And the penanlty for screwing up that duty is what? Promotion? Extra Christmas bonus? What?
If you will scan down the recent listings, you'll see that Gates sells blocks of shares in round millions all of the time.
Todays sale is not particularly relevant. He owns 616 million shares, selling a few million means nothing to him - probably program trades, cash for quarterly tax payments, a new yacht, etc.
(Officer Barbrady voice) :
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along now.
If MS requires NDAs from all people seeking information about their protocols, those would be "reasonable and non-discrimnatory" as the term is currently used.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Bill Gates, Baldy, Bush, Ashcroft, and a large number of others have gotten very rich by MS being a very illegal company. This shows that simply skirting the edge is not good enough. You must be illegal as hell and then fight it for a long time. During that time, you are allowed to use that money to keep building up assets.
The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said.
So basically, MS (the people that broke the last agreement) can monitor themselves to make sure they stay in compliance. Does this strike anyone else as abysmially stupid?
"I drank what?" - Socrates
http://salon.com/tech/wire/2002/11/01/microsoft/in dex.html
Point of special interest:
"The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said."
Oh. My. God. No one in their right mind would agree to this settlement. Apparently CKK is taking the standard Bush policy of putting the foxes in charge of guarding the henhouse to a new low. (SEC: Harvey Pitt. EPA: Christine Whitman. Microsoft: Microsoft.)
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
"In 10 short years it has been reduced to a smoking ruin, ruled over by a despot" MS has no power to make or enforce any laws. They offer a product. People have the free will to choose to buy it, or to not buy it. Why are you complaining about MS when your company forces you to use MS? Shouldn't you be complaining about your company for making that decision?
Vote for Pedro
So now u$oft can intentionally release buggy and exploitable API code (as if their code were bug-free anyway) and then couch their refusal to disclose under the reasoning that doing so would compromise "security."
Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only.
;)
Woo hoo! They can't give it to major commercial companies but they CAN give it to the open source community!!
I read that sentence correctly, right
2. To determine and enforce compliance with this Final Judgment, duly authorized
representatives of the plaintiff States, on reasonable notice to Microsoft and subject to any lawful privilege, shall be permitted the following:
a. Access during normal office hours to inspect any and all source code, books, ledgers, accounts, correspondence, memoranda and other documents and records in the possession, custody, or control of Microsoft, which may have counsel present, egarding any matters contained in this Final Judgment.
This sounds like what was handed down to Saddam.... and look how far we've gotten with that. Wonder which palace Bill is going to hide his weapons of mass corruption/disruption?
incripshin
the AP Summary
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Actually, that's not too out of line:
month - shares sold
1/2002 - 4,000,000
2/2002 - 14,000,000
3/2002 - 2,000,000
6/2002 - 20,000,000
8/2002 - 20,000,000
10/2002 - 6,000,000
and, as others have pointed out:
shares remaining, 2002-10-25: 616,749,300
share price is in the mid $50's.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Unless this website uses The Kings English, you've misspelled "judgment".
Hey, at least I know for sure that it's an American case.
the process of hearing complaints could be vastly speeded up if MS decides to play fast and loose.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Maybe you meant "rm -rf /mnt/windows/*" =)
/mnt/windows /dev/hda1 /mnt/windows /mnt/win
to be sure, why don't you use dd to write zeroes there? =)
Code:
mkdir
mount -t vfat
rm -rf
I disagree with the courts finding with respect to Java.
The judge seems to be of the impression that since Java worked on M$ OSes and M$ actively distributed its own JVM in which java applications "worked" then M$ was not really trying to kill java. Thus she accepts M$ claim (I assume this is what they claimed) that their modifications were improvements to enhance Java on their OSes.
But this neglects the mission and design of Java. If java were simply a programming language this this would be true, but Java is an environment.
The failure is with SUN and the plantifs. Though I disagree I believe she is right.
If you take the case of the windows logo in which people had to make programs run on winNT before they would get the logo for 95. Sun should have had a Java logo. M$ could never say development towards win95 only is an attempt to destroy NT.
From http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mo de_w=on&site=www.dcd.uscourts.gov
we find:
The site www.dcd.uscourts.gov is running Netscape-Enterprise/4.1 on Linux.
So the website is on Linux, and the Judge is on drugs. I suppose that's some progress.
... but you aren't/weren't embarrassed enough to not use it =)
He can't. He's essentially been voted out of MS as a shareholder. Over time, he must slowly sell his shares off so that he slowly loses equity in the company.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I find it funny that MS basically gets off scott free with no real punishment and nothing punitive. I really think about Ken Lay/ Nachio/ and the others who have been illegal as hell and have cost our country literally billions and nothing happens to them.
We crashed hard on Anderson who was suppose to be watching the hen house and are letting go the foxes that have done the real damage (don't get me wrong, anderson/accenture should be dead). We have also gone after martha for 250K insider trading with more $ and vengence than what has happen with Qwest.
what a joke american justice has become.
Seems like it's time. Not just because of this sell-out from George and Ashcroft (whose only significant accomplishment prior to becoming a Bush henchman was to lose an election to a dead man), but because of the growingly obvious evidence that Bush does not care about the safety, security, or prosperity of US citizens or for that matter anyone else. The country needs a national vote of no confidence on this punk... of course the US populace is so bovinely stupid at this point that they for the most part can't see the forest for the trees and wouldn't know or care that Bush is nothing more than a two-bit millenialist who hopes to bring on Armageddon to prove the righteousness of his particular religious dogma. Crap.
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
This is about as bad as I expected it could be.
Microsoft's dominance in the operating system and applications market will continue basically unchecked. Because of it, Microsoft will find it all the easier to deploy Paladium, which will help cement their dominance by using "security" as an excuse for locking out the interoperability efforts of Linux and others. This will help balkanize the Linux and Windows worlds, which will slow migration away from Windows. It will also be a useful tool for silencing a few activists who defy the restrictions with court and prison. Let's also not forget, without the trial hanging over its collective head, Microsoft will be much freer to use the bludgeon of Office withdrawal against Apple, should it not tow the line.
Paladium is the beginning of efforts towards centralized surveillance and control of all electronic media. Once it is deployed and semi-usable, the "gentle coercion" of fees, compatility, and network-effect fear will help Microsoft as they phase out and then attempt to suppress older, more open versions of their operating system (Win2k, XP, etc). Perhaps Windows Update will back-port the "content revolution." Or perhaps the death blow to Microsoft's open legacy will be a virulent worm which preys on a security hole they refuse to fix.
People will ask incredulously, "who would abuse Paladium, and how?" and the answer is, "anyone who can, in any way they can get away with."
The evolution of the operating system will keep its super-slow-mo pace. It was bad enough before; who would invest a nickle in any new technology that could compete with Microsoft now? They have the King's indulgence. In addition to the enormous "natural" benefits of their momentum and size, they are effectively untouchable. Progress in the computer sciences, and then progress in all the fields computers touch (and could touch, in a more innovative world), is hurt tremendously by this.
The threat of loss, from competition or regulation, is what drives progress. Think of it - Windows' closest competitor is written by hobbyists! And even then, it is because of Linux, and this trial (and to a far lesser extent, Apple) that Windows 2000 is more stable than Windows 98 and NT. But with the antitrust case gone, the content trusts having paved the way with the DMCA, and Microsoft already preparing new "solutions" to problems of interoperability and easy migration, there will no longer be a threat.
We are on some kind of roll. As a nation, we seem to make a new decision that betrays our standards and squanders our legacy every day. But, though people will call me a geek or claim I have an exaggerated idea of the computer's importance, I say that today's failure is particularly egregious. What all the parties have done here, the DoJ, their counterparts in the various States, the judge (CKK), and not least Microsoft itself, has left our children a disgusting legacy, and they will curse us for it. Rightly so.
We're on the road to Tycho.
A massive win for Microsoft? I'm not so sure. IANAL, and this is a lot to read, but a few things have struck out at me here....
Microsoft shall not retaliate against or threaten retaliation against an OEM... because it is known to Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating... shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with more than one Operating System
Good news for anyone who wants another chance at ordering a Linux-loaded Dell.
Microsoft shall not enter into any agreement relating to a Windows Operating System Product that conditions the grant of any Consideration on an ISV's refraining from developing, using, distributing, or promoting any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any software that runs on any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software, except that Microsoft may enter into agreements that place limitations on an ISV's development, use, distribution or promotion of any such software if those limitations are reasonably necessary to and of reasonable scope and duration in relation to a bona fide contractual obligation of the ISV to use, distribute or promote any Microsoft software or to develop software for, or in conjunction with, Microsoft.
Translation (as I read it): Microsoft can't stop selling Windows to my company, or stop my company from selling Windows-compatible programs, just because that my company wants to make and sell Mac or Linux versions.
Section III.H is really, -really- long to quote, but from what I read, it says that Microsoft will always offer a 'uniform and unbiased mechanism' for such things as changing file associations and setting up third-party programs to do anything "Microsoft Middleware" does. They can't ever make it so that you -can't- substitute WinAmp for Windows Media Player. As a matter of fact, they need to make it idiot-level easy. They also have to make it idiot-level easy to remove all traces of IE, Outlook Express, or MSN Messenger.
And, from what I see in III.I.3, Microsoft can't make their licenses non-transferrable. I can sell you my XP license, and no one will have any room to complain.
They're required to make all APIs used by their Middleware through MSDN or some similar mechanism. Granted, MSDN access is by subscription, so the information won't be free-as-in-beer, but Microsoft can't altogether stop that information from being public.
The enforcement seems to be in the hands of a multi-state committee. Notorious as committees are for not getting things done, still, the states have shown a strong interest in bearing down on MS.
Have to see how it goes, I guess.
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
OE only does POP3 and IMAP4. You're thinking of Outlook, which is part of Office. It can use POP3 and IMAP4, but it can also use MAPI/RPCs to talk to Exchange server.
Why the heck anyone would want THOSE specs is beyond me, blah.
Yup. He's smart enough to, say, hire a firm to manage his investments, and stipulate a maximum percentage of assets that can be in any one company. Keeping all his assets in one company would be incredibly stupid...
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
"Who's yer daddy?"
-- Bill Gates
Paid for by all linux users? What kind of punishment is that!!
Yes, this is good news for the Free Software world, although not nearly as good as it could have been. But.....
Honestly, how many of you people are actively doing something to fight the Microsoft monopoly we all complain about? How many of you are willing to strike out on your own as a Open Source based consultant? How many of you refuse to work for companies that focus on proprietary Windows software? I would have to guess not near enough, because if so, Microsoft would not be in the position it is today. If you want Justice, go out and wrangle away Microsoft's market share until they wither and die. All the tools you need are right in front of you--take advantage of them!
The man is obviously an idiotic karma whore.
PUNISH!! PUNISH!!
Since the CEO is responsible for the actions of the company, does this mean that Balmer and/or Gates are now felons under violation of Section 2 of the Sherman Act? I'm not a lawyer, but with all the laws against CEO misconduct that Bush is passing would this be the case?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
billg regularly sells shares of Microsoft. Lots of them. Company founders do it all the time. He already has enough diversified securities set aside that microsoft could evaporate off the face of the earth tomorrow, and he would still be rolling in dough. $100 million sounds like a lot to you and I, but not to him. It seems pretty obvious that his selling 2 million shares of stock today is much more likely to just be a sell order he made earlier being filled today than any sort of deperate attempt to not go to the poor house.
--something witty
If so, anyone found to have been harmed by M$ actions in them should now be able to file suit for trebled damages.
And let's not forget about the pending EU action about M$'s leveraging its desktop monopoly to break into the server market.
The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said.
(MY TRANSLATION: Microsoft is in charge of making sure it does what its supposed to do. )
I also like this one:
"The court's decision is a major victory for consumers and businesses who can immediately take advantage of the final judgment's provisions," Ashcroft said.
(MY TRANSLATION: Consumers can immediately take advantage of the provisions, because the status quo has not changed a single bit!)
This could be a big win for MS competitors if they finally shift from crying mode to competing mode. Time to roll up their sleeves and compete on the merits.
For those who doubt the ability of the usdoj to met out justice, I submit this message that they just emailed to me. I subscribed to this maillist yesterday for updates on the MS trial. This is the only message I have recieved so far:
From: "USDC Clerk's Office" donotreply@DCD.USCOURTS.GOV
To users who use the Netscape version 6.2 browser, fi you see the message at the bottom of the browser stating that the document is done and you do nit see the document, please hit the reload button at the top of your browser to view the document. Thank you for your patience in this matter.
A stupid message that says a lot.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not accusing Gates of anything, just asking: do SEC insider trading rules permit a sale with this timing? (It's not insider trading, I would guess, because if anything, I would expect MS stock to go up quite a bit because of this ruling, so most likely the sell order predated any information he had on the judgment. More likely a semi-planned sale. And it's not a whole hell of a lot of stock, either, giving his total holdings. So whatever it is technically, morally it doesn't count as insider trading.)
Like everyone else on the DCD mailing list for the Microsoft case I received this email:
From: "USDC Clerk's Office"
Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 14:20:57 US/Pacific
To: 98CV1232@nyed.uscourts.gov
Subject: Netscape version 6.2
Reply-To: donotreply@DCD.USCOURTS.GOV
To users who use the Netscape version 6.2 browser, fi you see the message
at the bottom of the browser stating that the document is done and you do
nit see the document, please hit the reload button at the top of your
browser to view the document. Thank you for your patience in this matter.
Obviously some sort of conspiracy here to prevent people using rival browsers from reading the judgment.
I think we should be told.
I'm just wondering. The kept mentionning weird mumbo jumbo. But is Office actually going to have its API open? Will word documents one day be opened in Open Office?
It's not insider trading unless you're a company insider (executive, board of directors, closely-related industry analyst, etc). Your average nosy public citizen can trade on anything they find out on their own, regardless of who else knows or was supposed to know.
As I recall, the call for comments from the public on the settlement were most against the settlement. Was that just an exercise in time-wasting? It looks like it was completely ignored.
Ever since Bush got into office, this case has been a disaster.
Microsoft buys RedHat, Mandrake, Caldera, IBM and all other publically-traded Linux companies.
No, just kidding. The settlement approved today prevents that from happening. Wait...er, no it doesn't. Nevermind.
And for good measure, they buy the US Gov't to prevent this from happening again.
Mind you, it would be better if all Microsoft products were encrypted with the SUCKFISH || BLOWFSCK algorythms
IANAL. I might ne AMSKEHS, but definitly ROED. Maybe then I can AHJS. But this judgement seems to be ALTOFR.
IANAL man
Judge Robert H. Bork, former Appellate Judge and Antitrust Expert
The decision accepts the deeply flawed settlement between Microsoft and the Department of Justice, which does nothing to restore competition to the marketplace or to prevent Microsoft from repeating acts explicitly held by the Court of Appeals to have been illegal.
The net result is that until this decision is overturned on appeal, as I believe it will be, competition will not be restored.
The Court of Appeals clearly prohibited Microsoft's practice of commingling the code of Windows with that of other critical software when there is no
benefit, but rather a clear harm, to consumers. This decision fails to
remedy this violation of the law, and its reversal seems likely on this point alone.
Never before has there been a case where liability was so thoroughly established, and never before has there been a case where the Justice Department agreed to a remedy that did almost nothing of what the law and the Court of Appeals required. Today's decision represent a substantial abandonment of antitrust law as it applies to one of the most important industries in America. The Department of Justice won at every step of the trial, and then surrendered in the settlement process. To justify this surrender, the Department resorted to disingenuous arguments that it could not be statistically proven that Microsoft's illegal conduct directly caused harm to Netscape. Their post hoc rationale for a flawed settlement has been absurd. We have the corpse of Netscape on the floor, and a whole host of other technologies whose development was stopped because it did not coincide with Microsoft's business plans.
The most disturbing message of all is that sent to nascent technologies and
innovators: the Department of Justice will not protect you from predatory monopolists. That is a grave error in economic policy and will have disastrous effects for competition in this and other industries.
Judge Kenneth W. Starr, former U.S. Solicitor General and Appellate Judge
This settlement gives the green light to Microsoft to continue its monopoly practices, a disastrous result for the high-tech industry, which has lived under effective Microsoft control for too many years.
In its unanimous ruling last summer that Microsoft had violated antitrust law, the Court of Appeals stated that the remedy must "terminate the monopoly, deny to Microsoft the fruits of its past statutory violations, and prevent any future anticompetitive activity." This weak settlement clearly fails to meet that standard, and it is my belief that the Judge simply gave too much deference to the Department of Justice, deference that was not warranted given the fact that the remedy proceedings were held after a full and complete trial.
The nine states that refused to accept the Microsoft settlement proved during the remedy hearings that Microsoft's monopoly is stronger than ever and that real remedies are needed. The Attorneys General of these states are to be commended for their courageous defense of consumers, antitrust laws and free-market economy. These AGs fought on because they understood that Microsoft is poised to monopolize the Internet itself, a result made more likely by today's decision.
It is my hope those Attorneys General will continue to fight to seek immediate review of this flawed decision.
Mike Pettit, ProComp President
ProComp is extremely disappointed. This represents a systemic failure of the legal system, a failure to protect consumers, competition, and companies like Netscape whose innovations literally changed the world.
Microsoft has terrorized the industry for more than a decade. Victims of Microsoft's predatory conduct are legion. This was the moment in time when competition could have been restored; that task will be much more difficult in the future. The right case was brought and won resoundingly. Eight
federal judges ruled unanimously against Microsoft. And then what
happened can only be explained this way: the Bush Justice Department surrendered to Microsoft.
The word has gone forth from the Bush Administration to countless would-be dreamers and tinkerers: we will not protect you when monopolists like Microsoft set out to crush you. It may take a decade to understand just how shortsighted today's decision is.
Microsoft has ostensibly been on its best behavior the past few months while pretending to comply with the DOJ settlement. Even during this time, the degree and nature of their predatory conduct has accelerated. I shudder to think of what this portends for the industry, which is now almost totally regulated by the most powerful monopolist in history.
Hey cockmaster, it's spelled "Judgment". Idiot.
My tax dollars weren't flushed. They were well-spent protecting the population from linux (or GNU/Linux - whatever) infestation. You hippies are cute with your open sores software and cryptic CLI. Why don't you go recompile your OS or something.
In discussing OEM's ability to add to and alter the desktop and start menu:
.except that Microsoft may restrict an OEM from displaying icons, . . ."
"Microsoft shall not restrict by agreement any OEM licensee from exercising any of the following. .
I doesn't matter what Microsoft may restrict. They should not be able to restrict anything that does not violate any law. This is a big win for Microsoft.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Microsoft's stock closed at $53, down 47 cents. Its stock rose nearly 5 percent in after hours trading.
And who yet doesn't think today was a major win for Microsoft?
I am Jack's HTTP Server
I love this part : (AP)...The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee -- consisting of Microsoft board members -- will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said.
Whew, and you were worried!
there is no reason for any enterprise to run M$ any more. My laptop runs rh 7.3, openoffice, aim for linux, phoenix. I have no m$ on my box.
WTF? How would restrictions against Microsoft deprive consumers of Unix, Linux, FreBSD, etc.?
Actually, this just goes to show how much Micro$ham crap news writers have swallowed and internalized over they years.
They're an OEM with access to the API's now.
Imagine that... A stable OS that COULD RUN WINAPPS.
"About 10 years too late -- this court was"
-- Yoda.
OK, here is a prime example of what you get when you have a corrupted legal system. MS does not have to do any thing. The only things they are not allowed to do are prohibited BY LAW anyways. As a monopoly, you can not discriminate against competitors. There are NO and I repeat NO sanctions if MS does not follow this code of conduct. The only thing that will happen is that the code of conduct can be extended by two (2!) years. Hardly deterring, if you don't follow it in the first place. The loopholes are so big that only the largest companies can even think about using anything from MS.
My only hope is that the European Commission will fine MS and punish them hard enough for their behaviour to get an effect.
The Honorable Mrs. K-K should retire. She did not even have a small grasp of the matters at hand or she was pressured to her decision. This is a shame for the American Legal system.
Moritz
Insider transactions are listed here.
Bill sold quite a few shares in October but none on November 1st:
He last sold stock in the middle of August. He regularly sells out his stock. Just like the other officers that you can check out here.
Bill holds about 12% of MSFT and at his selling rate will be out of the company stock in about 11 or 12 years time. Curiously this is also about how long Steve Ballmer has said (recently) that he is thinking about sticking around as CEO. So I give them a decade before they finish mutating into a regular blue-chip like GE or IBM
--now I am wondering "big deal". What large hardware box builder will even WANT to ship multiple boot and have to increase their help desk size by 1000%? I DOUBT it would only double. Let alone deal with the returns by people saying "ugh, broken, don't work, replace, gimmee money back"?
Anyone here who works at dell/gateway/compaq and etc want to comment? any plans in the works for consumer entry level PC's going out the door dual boot because of this ruling now?
Just wondering. I was hoping gates and co would get some jail time for fraud at a minimum and extortion. The civil suit was a waste of lawyers and fed prosecutors, they should have gone straight to RICO and made some serious felony arrests in the beginning, IMO.
It's the end of the month/beginning of a new month. Bill Gates has bills to pay too. Why not take out a bunch of money at the end of the month for the upcoming month? Sounds perfectly logical, just because Bill Gates is a generally egomaniacal monopolist doesn't mean everything he does has no logic to it.
Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
It doesn't seem likely that anything will ever be gained by suing M$.
...
How about an open source clone of windows? A lot of work has already been done by just a few programmers here http://www.reactos.com
With more programmers working on this project a fully functional os compatible with most windows drivers and all win32 programs can be finished in a year or two. There is nothing magical about windows os and a lot of things may be borrowed/ported from from wine, linuxntfs, linux,
Who cares what Bork and Starr have to say?
Bork is one who opposed voting rights for Blacks in Arizona, and carried out Nixon's request to fire those investigating Watergate. Do a Google search on "Saturday Night Massacre". In fact, I'll provide you with a link right here: Saturday Night Massacre
"Nixon then named Solicitor General Robert Bork the new attorney general, and it was he who carried out Nixon's order to fire Cox."
As for Starr, he is one who believes in impeaching officials for lying about getting blow jobs.
Neither one has an ounce of credibility.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
MSFT 56.10 Change +2.63 (4.92%) After Hours +3.1 (5.85%)
only 1 'e', probably the most misspelled word
It's all over except the grand-reopening under the MSN name.
Insider trading basically means taking advantage (profiting or avoiding a loss) of material non-public information. You have to get the information (directly or indirectly) from an insider. Now, the definition of an insider is pretty broad (it can even be a copy shop employee), but you have to have reason to know (or can't deliberately avoid finding out) that the person disclosing is an insider. You're allowed to trade on information you overheard in line for coffee, for example.
More importantly, I'd argue that once it's posted on a website such as this, it's not non-public information anyway. Theoretically, it could be argued that the information was obtained through less than kosher practices, but even then, you'd have to have reason to know it was not properly obtained.
The monopoly in this case was not found to have been illegally acquired, but only
to have been illegally maintained. Therefore, rather than termination of the
monopoly, the proper objective of the remedy in this case is termination of the
exclusionary acts and practices related thereto which served to illegally maintain
the monopoly.
How on earth did she come to that conclusion?!
"God is dead." - Frederik Nietzsche
For the big guys. Guess all the Linux Hippies will be packing thier bags and heading over to Europe now. Course they'll be taking along thier mesh Wi-Fi Linux embedded do-hickeys also.
Bet more than one or two of em will have an X-Box tucked in thier bag, just for hacking Linux onto, or so they'll say.
Is anyone really surprised? When you have as much money as those people you get to make the law.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougneedham
Just goes to show that, in a law system almost completely bereft of understanding of the tech-industry, he who has the bigger bank account wins.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
Not only did MS play by the rules, but they played off the greed of the other players. All the destructive contracts they got were based on the other players being unwilling to take a short-term loss for a long-term win. They took their short term win of money for a long term loss of freedom, and now that they have to pay that loss people are starting to complain. Moreover, most of the force behind the attacks on MS comes from their competitors who see legal action as a cheaper way to compete.
If MicroSoft were the only source of medicine, food, clothing, or shelter, then I'd have some sympathy for the detractors, but they sell SOFTWARE, and they don't even have a monopoly on that! People are just too cheap to suck it up and pay the REAL costs of freedom.
As Elbereth said here a few weeks ago, "Those who would trade a little freedom for a program that works deserve neither freedom nor a program that works."
"Starting three months after the entry of this Final Judgment to the Court, Microsoft shall make available for use by third parties, for the sole purpose of interoperating or communicating with a Windows Operating System Product, on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms (consistent with Section III.I), any Communications Protocol that is, on or after the date this Final Judgment is submitted to the Court, (i) implemented in a Windows Operating System Product installed on a client computer, and (ii) used to interoperate, or communicate, natively (i.e., without the addition of software code to the client operating system product) with a Microsoft server operating system product."
So, what impact do you think this will have (if any?) Will this help people who are on projects like SAMBA, WinModems, or USB ???
No eula screens: setup /iw
Regardless of the outcome of the various Microsoft lawsuits, I will continue to hold onto my Windows 98 cd, (and I do and can get into the update site, regardless of Microsoft's efforts to keep us win 98 installers out), until my Windows 98 CD is pried from my cold, dead fingers. Ditto for my Redhat 6.1 and 7.1 that I like to dual boot with the above mentioned Windows 98. I can put IE 6 on any new Windows 98
installation right now, this minute, no problemo.
Too bad I am posting as an Anonymous Coward (Slashdot needs to upgrade that to something more forbidding) so Microsoft will have to devote more resources to tracking me down, etc.
Today, the UN agreed that Iraq will continue to have inspections that it is compliant with its directives. The committee will be comprised of Iraqi appoint officials, including, Anthrax Andy Mohammed, Radiation Rad Ali, and a man simply known as Nuclear Winter. Saddam Hussein promised that these men take their jobs very seriously and will do whatever it takes...
"This "reasonable and non-discrimantor" rule allows for charging of royalties and restricting distribution and sub-licensing of the intellectual property."
This is a choice that people who adopt Open Source software have willfully made. That is, they feel having the source code and free distribution rights is far more important than having functionality.
You cannot blame Microsoft for your own choices.
The same choice is also what has created the problem of a lack of hardware drivers for Linux. In some cases they exist, but only as binaries. If you don't like that, then you are free to not use them.
Now THAT'S a good way to retain investor confidence. 10 minutes before markets closed too. Not a good pr move, if anything. It makes it seem like they're really scared.
.04% of his M$ holdings is probably to make his house payments and keep the lights on. Hmmm $106 Million for selling 2M shares minus 50% in taxes...thats about right.
Nice Troll and doesn't deserve a Score:5
So what? He owns OVER 500 MILLION SHARES Every time the stock splits 2for1 he has over 1 Billion and proceeds to sell about 500 Million. You are obviously trying to make it look like he's bailing out when he's not.
Microsoft was around $43 just a few weeks ago, my quote right now shows $56.25 in after hours trading.
Selling
Did I miss something?
Vote Quimby.
The EU- commission has also settled a case against Microsoft. this could be strong, esp. when you regard what the US did against WTO rules, I mean protection of the local steal industry.
Wow, my wrist doesn't even hurt.
Score:-5 Bad math.
Sorry, my bad, but still...not even half a percent of holdings.
Actually, Gates was essentially voted out of MS as a manager. He's still Chairman of the Board.
Any sane person would diversify their holdings now that they don't have direct control over their worth. Right now Fat Ballmer is holding Bill's wallet, not to mention whatever mediocre ex-IBM salesdroid suits they hire in the future. Gates has to think about his great-great-great-grandkids.
The helplessness that thinking individuals have at moments like this is outrageous. Our government is just begging me to pack up the family and move to Canada or Norway! I think I need to get an xbox and hack the hell out of it, maybe I'll feel a bit better then.
rm -rf ms/*
Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux
Microsoft agreed with you and argued just that. However, Judge Jackson ruled just the opposite.
Nobody in DC gives a crap about Linux in this situation -- get used to it.
Bottom Line : Did the consumer just get screwed over? Is this a fair ruling? Comments appriciated.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
IAAL (how often do you see that) and am impressed by the speedreading skills of y'all. Seriously, law needs people like you.
.NET's demise? Even MS's quite decent Internet Explorer is coming under credible attack (I'm using Chimera). Give it time, say 7 years.
... the court is retaining jurisdiction, which means MS can be rapidly hauled before a judge already familiar with the facts should they step out of line. That's lightyears more effective than initiating a lawsuit. Also, by leaving Micorsoft (excessively?) strong, this decision actually boosts the cause of Linux et al. to swipe the king's crown, operating in his shadow.
The court's ruling is what was expected, it is rare for courts to reject a settlement in the interest of public policy. No court wants to be saddled with the economic success of her decision to break up or hamstring a company, an area where they lack expertise. It also gets them branded "activist."
The revised settlement has been analyzed extensively already, and this decision appears to add just a few footnotes. Remember that the responsibility for the shape of the settlement lies with the Bush Administration; it moved aggressively on this. Let them know your thoughts (hey, someone figured a way into Saddam Hussein's email -- how about W's?).
Personally, I don't want to see Microsoft die. I just don't want them or anyone to be the 800-lb. gorilla. Microsoft sort of slipped into IBM's shoes -- remember the later was the subject of an extremely long antitrust suit, dropped because it had become irrelevant. IBM didn't die, but it sure changed, and is still a successful company.
I think Microsoft is now weakening before the free market, because of its bad publicity, the flaws of some of its products, and the general disenchantment with high-tech -- people who believed Gates' image of capitalist hero are now skeptical, troubled by things like his Clintonesque deposition.
Face it, when was the last time they had a real coup like the days of DOS, from which Windows was bootstrapped? You can buy a Lindows machine at a mass retailer like Wal-Mart. Apple didn't die. The reasons for most consumers to upgrade computers and OS's are evaporating, hence MS's aggravating licensing strategy (for the smaller users). Can you anticipate the boom of
And
-- ad
that's all.
eom
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
He can't. He's essentially been voted out of MS as a shareholder. Over time, he must slowly sell his shares off so that he slowly loses equity in the company.
TROLL!
I am a shareholder and have never seen such a vote! He stepped down and let Balmer take his place. He still owns around 550,000,000 shares! Approx 20% of Microsoft and is the largest shareholder. I think Balmer has around 150,000,000 shares (not sure). Please submit proof of your claims.
That's it, I'm seriously quitting programming and going back to mechanical engineering. I wanted to get into programming b/c of the potential for innovation I saw in it, but now I only get disgusted when I think about its future.
I suppose what's left of the bright and creative people will be able to continue to score selling their companies to MS for a bit, but it's clear that there will soon be no place for intelligence and creativity among what will be hoards of community college dropout, 2nd-chance-at-life-thru-MS-certified-ineptitude, Gates pawns.
Back to robotics.
I think I missed something here. Somewhere along the line, the judge who couldn't be fooled by the defense... was removed.
A new judge was a appointed who represented the wishes of a new government who no longer wished to do anything bad to one of its big campaign contributers.
The prosecution then decided to team with the defense, to propose a soft settlement with the new judge in a glorious menage a trois.
Meanwhile the public looked on wondering what happened. Fortunately a press release telling them that Microsoft has been punished set all their minds at ease.
The only thing that would have made this great moment complete was if the final judgement was issued in Visual Basic.
I'll file this one in my great moments in US history scrapbook, next to the picture of Johnny Cochrane.
Vote Quimby.
"Attorney General Granholm has asked that I respond to your recent communication regarding the State of Michigan's lawsuit against Microsoft. As you may know, the State of Michigan was one of nine states that recently entered into a settlement with Microsoft that modified (and in our view, improved upon) an earlier settlement reached between Microsoft and the United States Department of Justice. Over the three years of Microsoft litigation, their has been significant input to our office from some citizens requesting that we settle the Microsoft case immediately and from others who were convinced that we should continue to aggressively litigate. The United States Department of Justice, former Michigan Attorney General Frank Kelley and eighteen other states, originally filed the antitrust lawsuit. In the trial and appellate courts, eight different judges reviewed and evaluated Microsoft's conduct. All eight judges unanimously held that Microsoft's conduct broke the law through the illegal use and maintenance of the company's monopoly power. At the same time, however, the appellate court ordered that additional hearings take place to determine what an appropriate remedy for Microsoft's illegal activity should be. In settling the action, the Attorney General's office agreed to a remedy that will curb Microsoft's illegal behavior and will hopefully avoid the additional years of litigation that might have occurred without a settlement. For example, the settlement prohibits Microsoft from using monopoly power to retaliate against personal computer manufacturers who install competitive software products on their computers. The settlement will also require that Microsoft disclose certain communications protocols and other information that will make both the computer operating system and computer server markets more competitive. It is the constitutional responsibility of the Michigan Attorney General's office to enforce the laws of this state. Michigan law forbids the use of monopoly power to diminish competition. Without strong antitrust laws, and strong enforcement of those laws, the free competitive market cannot function as it was intended and consumers won't receive the benefits of a free market system. When those laws have been broken, as the courts have held in this case, it is the Attorney General's obligation to ensure that the illegal and anticompetitive acts are remedied. Although many may take issue with the specific provisions of the remedy that has been agreed upon in the settlement, we feel that it addresses the illegal behavior which was at issue in the suit and requires Microsoft to take appropriate corrective action. Further, it will accomplish those objectives without spending additional years in protracted litigation where little is accomplished to address the activity that t! ! he courts have already found illegal. I thank you for expressing your interest in the action."
Now Granholm is running for govenror...hmmm. Wonder how much MSFT helped with Granholm's election fund?
from the cnn article: "...and require that the company release some technical data so software developers can write programs for Windows that work as well as Microsoft products do."
and they kept a straight face?
What would keep consumers, who are interested in running Free Software, from banding together in a class action suit on behalf of ourselves, and no business interest? The more knowledgable of us could outline the specifics of what we want(smb protocols,ect.) and why, and we could use reserve and keep it to the bare minimum of what we need so as to not seem overly unresonable and have a more realistic chance of getting it. Slashdot would be a good place to begin the initiative. Why has this type of thing not been done?
Libranet GNU/Linux - Excellent Debian Based Distro http://www.libranet.com Check it out!
Some lawyer can point out that a 4-way Xeon is not a Personal Computer, but a Server, and that therefore this ruling does not apply?
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Here are two relevant quotes from the article:
...
. as p
" Kollar-Kotelly also modified the oversight of Microsoft's compliance with the settlement. Originally, the proposal included a technical committee and an internal compliance officer. In Friday's ruling, the judge combined the two into a compliance committee made up of Microsoft board members. In turn, the committee must hire a compliance officer, to report to the committee and Microsoft's CEO.
Attorney General John Ashcroft also praised the ruling. "The court's decision is a major victory for consumers and businesses, who can immediately take advantage of the final judgment's provisions," Ashcroft said in a statement released Friday afternoon. "
I guess those huge campaign contributions MS made to Bush's and Ashcroft's campaigns really paid off!
http://www.opensecrets.org/alerts/v6/alertv6_26
"Microsoft also was a major contributor to the Bush-Cheney Inaugural Fund, donating $100,000 to the gala last January."
Please people, vote!!!
hyperpoem.net
If I'm not mistaken, you're Steve McGeady of Intel, who did Set Top Boxes with Gosling at SIGGRAPH '95.[1] Why didn't Intel put up the $40k to cover your expenses as a witness in the government's case, especially in light of what Microsoft did to them?
__
[1] FWIW, mad props for keen vision etcetera; and isn't it interesting how that prospect was also killed off by Microsoft?
So when Palladium comes rolling around they will be able to hide *every* API they want because every system interaction will be DRM related (despite the corporate BS they try to pass off)
It's no news here, being in good company, but I last week decided to try my best to go MS-free (and other big company-free too). My OS X machine has Office v.X still, as many of my college's classes require its use...but dammit, I don't like the idea one bit. My browser is Mozilla, my email is Mail.app, IMs go to Adium, and my soul is MINE not Gates's.
If they'd gotten their asses handed to them, their new perceptions might have given MS a chance for long-term survival based on listening to their customers and trying to build better products than anybody else. By and large, they now can legally conduct business as usual.
The judge isn't wholly at fault here, DOJ (would large MS campaign contributions to Bush have had anything to do with it) wasn't fighting to win anymore. That's clear even from the public summary. She can only rule on what the opposing sides use for arguments, objective reality has nothing much to do with court decisions.
The future?
Brussels to spend 250k on Linux migration study
More governments and businesses refusing to put up with MS licensing terms, bad security, or the constant hardware/software upgrade cycle, and quietly converting to Open Source. They are investigating desktop as well as server, and the consultancy doing this is already rolling out "secure" Linux desktops and server systems in police stations in part of the UK.
I've been working in high-tech journalism for the last few years. Well, the bottom has fallen out of the market and won't be coming back anytime soon, so I'm changing tracks to system administration. I'm convinced enough that MS is part of the past that I won't be bothering with learning W2000/XP or IIS.
Tech Public Policy stuff
What they don't have to disclose are their keys and tokens.
Only in the case of a "security" API that is, in fact, inherently insecure (such that mere knowledge of how the API functions compromises security) could they not disclose an API, and in that case thay'd have to publically declare that their "security-related" API is insecure...
-------
Brevity is the soul of wit
-- Polonius
Only on /. could a loss on 99% of all counts against Microsoft be considered a "Massive Win for Microsoft".
/.
Is every single thing in the universe turned on it's head in here? When did this become bizzaro-land? Would anything less than locking every single MS employee up in jail till then die and nuking Redmond into orbit have been considered acceptable? Not from the foaming comments I've seen so far.
This is a sad day. A sad day for it is the death of commen sense and rational thinking on
Karma to burn my friend.
I agree with you. This is dumb. We will all keep yelling about michael until it is publicly addressed, someone is responded to, or we all leave. I'm not leaving, are you?
By the way, I've got "excellent" karma and a + 2 bonus...so here i got to lose 3...karma suicide...*jumps*
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
I'm glad you've asked me this question.
For a more detailed description of the problem, including pictures of the old cut vs. the new cutting method, and to sign an online petition:
http://spine.cx/subway/compare.php
What does the slashdot community as a whole think of this? Perhaps this should be the topic of the next poll.
OK. So now we know for sure what we've mostly assumed all along -- Microsoft has a monopoly and the government isn't going to do much, if anything, about it. Are all of the competitors ready to get off their sweaty asses and do something revolutionary finally, or are they and we going to continue to whine about how unfair Microsoft is? We already know a lot of Free Software is superior to the garbage Microsoft spews out, so why don't we develop some sort of strategy to push Linux and other Free Software to the level that it actually threatens Microsoft's monopoly instead of relying the government that we don't trust anyway to somehow help us?
Yes, a lot of companies are doing this already, but let's stand behind them 100% instead of whining about their lack of spine for not including flag graphics or for looking too much like Windows or any number of other cheesy gripes.
Are you people ready NOW or do you want to wait for another few rounds in court before we actually give Microsoft the competition the marketplace needs? The only thing that Microsoft has that the Free Software Movement needs is a clear direction. Yes, free men pull in all sorts of directions, but right now, we're mostly we're running into eachother.
User #666
e =f riend
http://slashdot.org/zoo.pl?op=check&uid=666&typ
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1 - Stop disclosing bugs on Microsoft Product
2 - Kick them all down at once and for good
You think you know more about investing than the richest man in the world?
The point of this agreement is to, through court action, create genuine competition in the marketplace. The agreement falls short of this. Yes, people may choose to use Free software for whatever reasons, but if Free software is the only thing that's got a chance at competing, the agrement should address that. It doesn't, and that's what I'm saying.
Should any company have to give out such information such that it can be used in free software? No. But, this is a monopoly, and the rules change drasitcally when you are dealing with a monopoly.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
1. Linux programs work fine out of the box for me, 95% of the time.
2. I had more trouble getting windows to work with my hardware than linux.(Old hardware, or bad drivers, on several different PC's
3. Go to download.com and skim some windows software. Read the ratings. A lot of it is broken/hard to get working, too.
4. Sometimes software requires tweaking. Windows software too.
5. Finally, with linux/Open software, if something is broken, I can read the readme and FIX IT. With many windows, closed, no-source no-documentation software, I'm out of luck.
Just a reminder of how life is sometimes.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
According to the article at http://news.com.com/2100-1001-964278.html, Microsoft's compliance to the settlement is enforced by...Microsoft's board members!
For better or worse - the verdict's in on Microsoft vs DOJ. I would have to say it's worse. Not that I hate Microsoft but is it just me or does anyone else believe that this is the biggest slap to the American public we have ever seen? What kind of a government do we have here? Who's been bribing people? Or maybe I should just say "How much have they received?" You don't have to have an IQ of 1,000 to realize that something shady has gone on here. Excuse me? But "In the public's interest?" The public is interested in everyone being treated the same way. Yet rich boys get off a lot better than poor ones. The same goes for rich companies. And let me say one other thing - the world does NOT revolve around Microsoft. And anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
And yes, I know people who think Microsoft is wonderful. Well, hate to tell you this - but a lot of people thought Hitler, Mussolini, and even Saddam Hussein were wonderful too. They aren't and this decision stinks.
Let me tell you what the real problem is: Our nation was founded by people who never even imagined that we would be able to communicate instantly around the globe. Nor did they even consider that an invention (the computer) would allow a very very small number of people to control most of what went on in this country. Instead, their outlook was that everything would take a very very long time to happen. Messages took months, sometimes years to reach someone. Thus, we were insulated against immediate threats and we were able to react correctly to various problems as they arose. Today our government is overrun from multiple directions. Not by accident, but on purpose. Because companies can hire as many lobbiests as they wish and as many lawyers as they wish (note Microsoft's hiring every available lawyer they could during the case to ensure their case succeeded [as reported by the newspapers and online magazines] against the government). The government, which is made up of a few people, with limited funds, gets overwhelmed. Further, by constantly running ads which are strongly slanted in favor of the company and against their competition (which, in this case, is the government) they get people to write letters which puts pressure on the governmental agencies, senators, members of Congress, and others. These same companies also create other companies who's sole purpose for existence is to continually create (not write) letters via computers using technology to scan handwriting and turn it into fonts used to make these letters look different (as well as to change around sentences so each letter looks unique). And that is fraud - plain and simple. It was done to put pressure on the justice department in Utah so they would drop the case. These are the kinds of people you are supporting when you buy their products.
So yes! I am unhappy about the outcome of this case. You should be too. Do you really think a company, who is willing to do what this company has done - is going to be all nicey-nicey now that the case is over? Are you an idiot? As the song says: WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES! THEY'VE ROTTED ON THE VINE. THEIR STENCH IS OVERWHELMING. YOU ARE LIVING LIKE SWINE. EATING OF THE GARBAGE, STREWN OUT BY CORPORATE WASTE. WALLOW IN THE FILT. AND ENJOY THE BRAND NEW TASTE.
Are you mad yet? I hope so. You should be.
Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke.
I'd be very suprised if the verdict was known to Dow Jones Business News an hour and a half before it was on Slashdot (which would make it two hours before market close) and NONE of the major news networks knew about it until after the market close. Could you please document this claim of yours that Dow Jones Business News had this information an hour and a half before Slashdot?
In the ellipsis ("...") in
your first quote. "reasonable
and non-discriminatory"
So it would be reasonable and
non-discriminatory for them to
release APIs for say $3,000 (or
any other random number), and
make you agree to not
re-distribute this information.
AKA, impossible to help free
software.
From the BBC >>>>Microsoft responded to Friday's decision by insisting that it was "committed to resolving these issues in a constructive way so that we can focus on long-term growth and innovation for consumers", and said it would review the judge's decision. "The issues in this case are significant, not only for Microsoft but for the industry and consumers," said the consumer giant's spokesman Vivek Varma. US Attorney General John Ashcroft hailed the verdict as a "major victory for consumers and businesses". Mr Ashcroft said it would mean other companies "are encouraged to develop and deploy new middleware technologies with full confidence that their efforts will not be impeded by anticompetitive practices." Microsoft shares fell 2.3% or $1.16 and closed at $52.30 ahead of the judge's announcement which was made after the markets closed. They later recovered in after-hours trading.
You're right: Recall that a mere sixteen years or so ago, everyone was still in bunches about Big Blue taking over the world.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Why not have an Online sitin! That will really stir up M$ for a while. You can badly disrupt buisness, but it's perfectly legal. :)
This is _great_ news for those well-funded businesses who might profit
from violating anti-trust law.
Sorry GPLers, it should now be obvious that your license is unenforceable because. You don't have the money to defend it.
And sorry Democrats, Republican ethics have triumphed again. Long live government by "might makes right" and long live the influence of money over democracy.
There is one good thing that came out of it. The case made the U.S. population aware that Microsoft is an abusive monopoly. Now that people are aware of it, they can actively seek out non-M$ products that will work for them. A few more million spent on Linux development (not that the tax dollars would actually have gone there) would not have made as much difference. The case was a desperately needed advertisement for non-monopoly software (and I would be surprised if OSS development wasn't spurred by this case). Hopefully, the message sunk in.
I have to take issue with most of what you've said, and I'm going to try and not be a jerk while I'm doing it.
First, it's a game. If you actually believed in what you're talking about, you wouldn't compromise your ethics/whatever to play a game. Simple as that.
What you say and what you do are two very different things. If I beat my wife all the while telling her I love her and that I don't want to hurt her, that does nothing to stop her from getting a black eye. Who cares if you're embarrassed that you're using Windows partition. There's nothing wrong with it. It's juvenile to breathlessly complain about something then go ahead and at least tacitly support it.
Second, your sig is very irritating. It's emblematic of the most god-awful trends in writing and popular thought today. If something isn't funny, you know what? It's probably just not funny. Why do you think that what you write is of sufficient intellectual caliber that people should assume that it's worthwhile without proof. And, once again, the proof is in what you do, not what you say. If you say its funny and nobody agrees, then it's probably not very funny.
If you don't think there are going to be a lot of companies and people that are just laid out to the trash heap because of their involvement with Microsoft, you're nuts.
I run Windows 2000 on my winders box, does this mean I have to pay MS for XP (which I do not want due to DPM provisions) to get the interoperability protocols.
"I told you so" kind of guy.
So.. I Told You So!
Now I get to wait for about 15 years, and when children are chanting "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of Microsoft", I will be able to say it again.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux.
Not at all. Linux has the best position TODAY, but anything can happen tomorrow. This industry changes too rapidly to make any predictions. A couple of scenarios:
A) People once dumped their inexpensive Apple II's, Commodores and TRS-80's for the more expensive IBM PC. The possiblity certainly exists that Mac OSX could take off in a big way, particularly since it is both easier to use than Windows, and more powerful.
B) Linux distros are merely repackagers of software, slapping a user "friendly" veneers over it. There's nothing stopping a third party from slapping a better veneer over FreeBSD or NetBSD. This is what Apple did, and they're doing great because of it.
Four years ago Linux was a hobby. Two years ago it looked like it might be a contender for the printserver market. The changes that can happen over two years in both technology and attitudes is amazing.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
more 'confidence' sales by bill gates
:
25 oct -- 1 million
23 oct -- 1 million (actually just under) shares
22 oct -- 1 million
21 aug -- 10 million
4 jun -- 10 million
this is numbers of shares not dollar value - multiplying by $50 gives us a figure of roughly $1.25 billion (adding in the 2 million sold nov 1) - not chicken feed even for the likes of bill gates
interestingly his first sale of 10 million in june came just after the stock price rose above $50 - it had been flummoxing around in the low 40s for a while before that - at prices not seen since the early part of 1998
with no dividends ever paid and no prospect of further significant growth for MS - just a slow strangling of wealth from it's existing customers - MS seems like a pretty dubious buy to me - so no surprises that gates seems to think the same way
links
register of MS insider trades
MS stock price chart - last 5 years
Legal judgements need to be provided in a certain way. Pushing out a .txt version could be an option, but the layout and formatting is part of the document, which .doc, .sxw, .txt, .html do not provide.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
The entire point of the anti-trust laws and this case is that its not so simple to mount a credible competitor to a monopoly. There have been many attempts, and they have been unsuccessful to date. The OSS/Free Software movement seems to me to be less likely to be successful due to its lack of focus and coordination. While its strength is in decentralization, that is also its weakness when mounting a campaign against a major competitor. This is where I see OSS falling short. There just is no way to make the coordinated and efficient actions necessary for success in such a major undertaking.
...no one!
...I wonder if so many amateur economists would be posting here now?
In truth, the remedies sought by the anti-settlement states would have had little, if any, impact on the market share enjoyed by Microsoft products. Telling Microsoft not to bully vendors who hide a few icons is not the way to foster competitive products.
Lost in all this smoke and hot air is the intimate link between Microsoft and the x86 PC architecture. Other architectures were, and are, possible. Vendors selling alternative OS's for the x86 platform may eventually carve out a stable and profitable niche, but their impact on MS will be minimal. (A decision today in favor of the anti-settlement states would not have changed that fact.)
The way to check Microsoft's influence is to create and market a personal computing platform based on a new, non-x86 platform that offers compelling capabilities that the x86 can't. This would represent a paradigm shift as significant as the original PC industry in the late '70's and early '80's.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
MS stock was $115 at peak.
At that time Bill's stock would be worth:
$71,415,000,000
He's lost half his fortune!!!
Poor Bill.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Only in the US:
Can a defendant be proven guilty...
Be disrespectful to the court...
Flat out refuse to comply with court orders without legal grounds...
Not even follow their own version and interpretation of the settlement agreement...
and..
Be granted even more power than they had before. (Yeah, its illegal, but its ok for MS to do it!)
If any of us had tried to pull this kind of shit in court, we'd be like the guy on goatse.cx by now. But because its "Big Money, Corp." they can do it all day long and not even flinch. No polititions calling for reform. No legal experts throwing a fit. No public outcry. Welcome to the US o fuckin A. (smells the karma burn)
I wish I could get away with bankrupting company after company and ripping off billions with a settlement that basically said, "I promise to not do it again as long as I don't think I need to." The settlement rank and file full of contradiction after contradiction, loophole after loophole. I can honestly say, that in my life, I have never seen this large a pile of outright horseshit, and in all places, the country that is supposed to value the rights of the little guy over that of the groups. God help me, where is the United States I was told about growing up? Where is the land of tolerance and Free thought and the chance for the little guy to succeed. I'm not calling for anarchy or comunism, so to those who would reflexively accuse me so, keep that in mind. This is supposed to be the land of the Free, not the land where you are free to fuck someone over, so long as you don't piss off someone with more power than you.
I'll admit, I have been wrong before; I will be wrong again; and I may be wrong now. But right now it sure seems to be the truth to me. This is a sham. This is a shame. This is reality.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name= News&file=article&sid=477&mode=&order=0&thold= 0
Don't want to read it? Here's the bottom line:
Microsoft wins. The judge has entered the settlement as MS wanted it. The "amendment" to that settlement isn't substantive...
WASHINGTON (DC) Nov. 1. Judge Kollar-Kotelly, asserting a rarely used Federal Appellant Court authority, issued a second legal ruling today, this one concerning the case of two suspects charged with going on a shooting rampage in the Washington DC area. The suspects will be released immediately, but ONLY after agreeing under oath not to shoot any more innocent victims. The guns found in the alleged snipers' possesion will not be returned for a period of 5 years, and then ONLY if the two are found in compliance with this decree. Compliance will be determined by a 2 person committee made up of the snipers themselves.
More about Microsoft abuses: Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going..
Look! Over there! It's Ayn Rand!
(made you look)
Actually something has come of it. Microsoft was ruled a monopoly. The Linux crowd has been getting a great amount of mileage out of that fact alone. The trial has also been a great pause on Microsofts most egregious behavior. That has given companies and movements time to fortify their positions. Microsoft may not have suffered the end we wished, but there's still time for all of the past actions to come home to roost (financial shenanigens). Plus to add to it all is their present actions. Licensing terms that only a despot would love. Steve Ballmer repeatedly shooting his mouth off, embarressing Microsoft in the process. PR campaigns that make political ads look innocent by comparison. Microsoft is like a cancer patient. Riddled through and through, but looking seemingly healthy on the outside. Till it nears the end, and suddenly the illusion is broken and even the doubters can see that the patient is ill and doesn't have long to live.
Well, some of the documents did have the phrase "Final Judgment" :-/
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
If the small businesses being harmed are the real innovators in the software world, this decision could do the US a lot more harm than good.
Think of the big American carmakers during the 60s and 70s. Their monopolies slowed the pace of innovation in the US and made them complacent. This probably seemed perfectly acceptable at the time-- after all, the whole world was buying our cars, right? Until, of course, the Japanese took advantage out our complacency and nearly put us out of the business. US carmakers were forced to literally invent the kind of innovative, small companies they'd put out of business (like Saturn).
to turn the economy to crap, so nobody would do anything that would adversely affect them. They are now free to reign, their stock goes up, America loves them, everyone sends them as much money as they can. The economy gets better. Bush looks good. Everyone happy, except for paranoid trekky-geekky guy.
Well, my boss gave me the day off. I pretty much spent all my time playing computer games, and I was feeling pretty good...until I read slashdot.
Now I'm in a crappy mood. This really sucks. And just think... now there's nothing and nobody to stop M$ and the entertainment cartel from crippling my computer and forcing me into either using M$ development tools and licensing permissions if I want to do *ANY* programming whatsover, whether personal or professional.
It's time for me to change careers. I just haven't figured out what the hell I'm going to do. I love computers. This is yet another one of my passions that will be taken away from me....
This space left intentionally blank.
They don't seem very upset about it
Microsoft News Conference on US District Court Rulings Bill Gates, Chairman & Chief Software Architect Steve Ballmer, CEO November 1, 2002 BILL GATES: Good afternoon. We believe that today's ruling, largely affirming the settlement we reached with the Department of Justice and the nine states represents a fair resolution of this case. It's a major milestone. We thank the mediator, the federal government and the nine states that helped forge the settlement, and we appreciate the court's extensive work. This settlement puts new responsibilities on Microsoft, and we accept them. We recognize that we will be closely scrutinized by the government and our competitors. We will devote the time, energy and resources needed to meet these new rules. I am personally committed to full compliance. We have already made many of the necessary changes. We have increased the technical information we make available about our products. We have made it simpler for computer manufacturers to replace Microsoft software with programs of their choice on the Windows desktop. We have made our licenses more uniform. And we have appointed an internal compliance officer. We are also training our employees so that the settlement is understood and followed in every part of our business. We are committed to being a responsible industry leader. We are dedicated to the core values that built this company from the beginning, helping people and businesses realize their full potential through great software. A lot has changed since this lawsuit began. The Internet is becoming an increasingly vital part of our lives. Economic growth has cooled worldwide, and it has been a time of increased competition and upheaval in the technology industry. But I also believe it's a time of promise. We have only scratched the surface of what software can do in our homes, our schools and our economy. While putting new responsibilities on Microsoft, this settlement also gives us the freedom to keep on innovating for our customers. The next few years will be an incredibly exciting time for our industry as Microsoft and many other companies work to develop technology for an increasingly digital world. We are pleased with another step in this case behind us. We can focus even more on building the future of technology. Thank you. STEVE BALLMER: I want to second what Bill has said. We are fully dedicated to complying with the settlement which the court conditionally approved today. Over the last year we have put in place the resources and training to ensure compliance, and we are continuing to implement the required changes in our software and how we operate. As a company, Microsoft has learned and grown through the experience of the last four years, and we are committed to moving forward as a responsible leader in an industry that is constantly, constantly changing. I want to be clear that we have heard both those who support us and those who have criticized us. We must be aware of our actions affect others and are perceived by them. Compliance is both a corporate commitment and a personal responsibility for all our employees. By strengthening our connections with customers and industry partners, we are committed to forging a deeper bond with the people and communities we serve, by listening more, communicating better, and focusing more than ever on innovation. As we continue to focus on complying with this settlement, we are also continuing our discussion with the European Commission to address the issues that they have raised. We see an amazing opportunity for technology to enrich people's lives in the years ahead. The 50,000-plus employees of Microsoft are 100 percent focused on working with people across our industry to help create the next generation of products and services that will help people in businesses achieve their full potential. Thanks very much to all of them, and thanks very much to you for your time today. We'd be delighted to take some questions. Bill Gates, Brad Smith, our general counsel, and I will all be available to you. Key Topics Current Legal News Legal News Archive Antitrust Proceedings Proposed Settlement Settlement Proceedings Settlement Program Non-Settling States Remedies Proceedings Antitrust Trial and Appeals Archive Proceedings Index of Legal Filings Background Information Class Action Antitrust Lawsuits Other Legal Issues News Customer Guide to Microsoft Legal Policies Contact Us Subscribe ©2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
This is called market manipulation.
Drive the share price down now, claim hey, look at how bad the courts have treated us, wait till the decision is confirmed, buy up lots of cheap stock.
Get a lighter sentence and make money at the same time.
The suprise is that he is not selling more.
...the document isn't winword format.
just to add some more perspective -
the 25 million shares i referenced in my parent comment represent 4% of bill gates's MS stock holdings - i.e. at the beginning of june he held close to 650 million shares
so that's the situation - a sell-off of 4% of his total stock holding inside 5 months - you be the judge of whether that's significant
"Ultimately the only serious competition Microsoft faces at this time is from Linux"
I was watching foxnews and they had their business roundtable going. They mentioned that how Linux was the only real competition. Then they literally laughed, yes literally laughed and all agreed how much of a joke it was to think some "free software" could compete with a $250 billion company.
We'll see whose laughing in 5 years.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
At 4:30 p.m. Eastern time (1:30 p.m. Pacific), United States District Court Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly released Opinions in the Microsoft antitrust case. Bill Gates issued the following initial statement: "The Settlement is a tough, but fair compromise. It imposes requirements on Microsoft, but it enables us to continue to innovate, and create products that address the changing needs of our customers. We recognize that we will be closely scrutinized by the government and our competitors, and we will devote all the time, energy and resources needed to ensure that we meet our responsibilities." Shortly after the decision was issued by the Court, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft made this statement: "The Department is pleased with the court's decision approving the department's settlement with Microsoft. That decision confirms that the final judgment furthers the public interest by fully and effectively addressing Microsoft's unlawful conduct and restoring the competitive conditions in the computer software industry." We will continue to update FIN members throughout the weekend and next week. Additional information is also available at these sites: MORE FROM MICROSOFT http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/legalnews.asp FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/microsoft-2001.html FREEDOM TO INNOVATE NETWORK WEB SITE http://www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate Ashcroft can bite me!
"To lead the people, you must walk behind them"
Bill Gates issued the following initial statement:
"The Settlement is a tough, but fair compromise. It imposes requirements on Microsoft, but it enables us to continue to innovate, and create products that address the changing needs of our customers. We recognize that we will be closely scrutinized by the government and our competitors, and we will devote all the time, energy and resources needed to ensure that we meet our responsibilities."
Shortly after the decision was issued by the Court, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft made this statement:
"The Department is pleased with the court's decision approving the department's settlement with Microsoft. That decision confirms that the final judgment furthers the public interest by fully and effectively addressing Microsoft's unlawful conduct and restoring the competitive conditions in the computer software industry."
We will continue to update FIN members throughout the weekend and next week. Additional information is also available at these sites:
MORE FROM MICROSOFT
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/legalnews.asp
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/microsoft-2001.html
FREEDOM TO INNOVATE NETWORK WEB SITE
http://www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate
sorry about ugly first post of this
"To lead the people, you must walk behind them"
Dude, you're supposed to eat the new cut sideways. Sheesh.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
think of it this way-- it will take an army of lawyers to regulate Microsoft. The DOJ doesn't have that army of lawyers....
BUT there is an army out there opposing Microsoft-- as evidenced by the 100 or so lawsuits waiting for this to become official. That army consists of lots of little companies, and several big ones.
Basically, this ruling leaves Microsoft legally vulnerable. And that may be more effective than a harsher punishment.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Your right. I'm not proud of it, but I still wanted to play. I had the os already. Damage was done. I don't use it except to play that one game, and that's mainly because my girlfriend is addicted to it as well. yes, I am a hypicrite. however, the only reason I bought it was to support bioware. I figure since I have it I might as well enjoy it.
As for my article, people have replied saying saying I'm stupid, I'm a hypocrite, no one will listen because of my spelling errors- but guess what? I wrote that in one stint, and haven't had a chance to proof read it. I wasn't even planning on publishing it or making it available on my website... but guess what? I did. I saw the article, and I said "what the hell" and put it up knowing that it would get torn apart. But I don't care. I've gotten several responses to it, and I still haven't even looked at it to change it. I'll fix it when I get time.
As for my sig- I was planning on changing it when I got around to it later today(I've had that sig for around 6 months I think), but every time someone complains(your the second person to do so) I keep it for another month. Why? I don't know.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
could you direct me to the unemployment line.
I would say they face serious competition from apple again.
OS X is beautiful, and it's only getting better (ditto for linux, though the system needs to become more coherent to the "desktop" user before I'd recomend it on real OEM machines).
posting as AC to spare the mod points.
for the record, it was not proofread. I had no spell checker. I had been awake for aproximately 20 minutes when I wrote that first section. it'll get fixed.
But thank you for your input, even if you were meaning to troll.
Since when is stating the obvious is interesting. Anyone at this point who is not awaire it is a civil case and nobody is going to jail, should crawl out from under the rock they live in, or away from that computer in that dark room. Come out the sunshine is good for you. As far as anyone who would mode this post up should have their head checked. Interesting, as if. Karma is bullshit.
The judgement states, for all intents and purposes, that it's business as usual, but they have to play by the rules. Does this mean that all this brouhaha about antitrust was for naught?!
This sig no verb.
Looking at the way replies have been moderated in this thread, and especially that someone actually childish enough to write "M$" could get modded as insightful, just proves to me that michael is the ultimate linux fanboy poseur. Kick him off the team, Taco. Do it for all of us.
The law is as it always was, an ass and way behind the curve. The market place (M$ own customers are its own worst ennemy,) will decide.
... the marketplace will switch to 64 bit desktops anyway and Linux will have the edge because I don't think M$ will ever get off the x86.
When M$ becomes as reliable (cough, cough,) and secure (hack, hack, gasp,)) as Linux or when Linux desktop becomes consistent ("rach ptui",) enough then
And NO Mr. Moore, 32 bits is NOT enought.
Our computers are still blind, deaf and dumb (also stupid and way too easily fooled.)
The amount of RAM and CPU our machines need to have and use should let them be as agile and as environmentally aware as a pet cat or canary.
I don't have to type in a spoofable password on a keyboard for my pet for it to know that I'm me. (existential security based on biometric recognition.)
I point with my finger (not a mouse,) and track objects with my eyes in 3D (no equivalent,).
I speak and I don't run spell-check as I talk. (Of course there's still the old "I know you think you understand what you heard but I don't think you realize that what I said was not what I meant.")
I listen. (ViaVoice ain't there yet.)
I draw on cocktail napkins...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Great post-- it's always interesting to see in action the bizarre split in the "right wing" that everyone (especially the right wing itself) always just kind of seems to pretend doesn't exist.. you know, the split between the lasseiz-faire right-wingers and the ones who actually believe in a free market..
Anyway just curious, though, where did you get these quotes from?
Uhh, but that's not important. What i meant to ask about is this:
The net result is that until this decision is overturned on appeal, as I believe it will be, competition will not be restored.
I have been trying to figure this out. Can the current decision be appealed, who by (the dissenting states?), who to (the supreme court?) and if an appeal occurs does Microsoft have to abide by the terms of this settlement while that appeal is in the courts?
I'm also slightly confused by the judgement's language in one respect: when Microsoft doesn't obey the terms of this settlement, what will the result be? Does kotelly drag them back in and whap them with big contempt-of-court judgements until they comply, or do we get to start another six-year court case?
What happens next?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Only 3 out of the 24 links were related to slashdot, altho slashdot did report most of them.
Most of the links were from respectable sites(as respectable as internet news sites go.) I actually went to the trouble of trying to track down legitimate sources, however some(like the anti-switch campaign) were removed, as well as the google cache. I wrote that to help remind people of the things Microsoft has done. People have a bad habit of forgetting things like this.
I tried to to hold back most of the bias, but that's impossible when talking about a subject like that. Aside from the obvious grammar and spelling mistakes, please, point out any inaccuracies in what I wrote. Show me where I was wrong.
and as for the "same drivel" that's on slashdot every day... don't come back. If you don't like it, please, I beg of you, either go away and don't come back or get an account so we can permanently mod you down. your not irritating or annoying, your just sad. If your sole source of enjoyment is trolling on a web forum, well.... you need to seriously evaluate your life.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
this reminds me too much of the OJ simpson trial. Lots of fan fair, large promises, big dollars, and in the end entirely useless...
of NOT being American....
All Americans should be ashamed to death with their politicians, including George WC Bush.
My own testing shows that the article is correct. If you see an error, post a comment about it.
This outrage results directly from the "regime change" in 2000, after a Democratic administration left that had opened and pursued the case against Microsoft, and at the time was smashingly successful. Then a Republican administration came to power -- in a hotly contested election, and thanks to one of the most widely condemned Supreme Court rulings in all of history. This administration never met a big business it didn't like, and one of its first decisions was to let Microsoft walk, even though the courts had nailed them to the wall.
George W. Bush has been deeply embarassed this past year when a number of Big Businesses turned about to be so outrageously criminal that there can no be conceivable excuse for them. The most notorious example, Enron, had been previously very cozy with the Texas oilman; but in statements that must have given him profound cognitive dissonance, W. has had to admit can the big companies can be just as criminal as a thug on a street who knocks over a liquor store.
But this idea just won't really sink in with the Republicans in charge. Microsoft has been a corporate crook all along, long before the Enron and Worldcom scandals, but Bush & Ashcroft just can't get it through their heads.
Politicians need to understand that they will be punished at the polls for this kind of sell-out. And in American politics, this means that the party in power that is responsible for the transgression has to take it in the chops on Election Day.
The midterm elections are taken as a referendum on the party that owns the White House. So American voters have the opportunity, this coming Tuesday, to send a message to Bush & Ashcroft that letting the big companies get away with everything and anything will not be tolerated.
You're not helpless against this ruling; your power is your vote. It might not be much, but it's the power you have, and no one can stop you from using it. On Tuesday, vote for a Democrat and give the Republicans the bitch-slap that they richly deserve.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
My first thought on reading the judgement was that Microsoft was getting away scott free, but did anybody read section VII. Further Elements.
Sua Sponte is defined on law.cornet.edu as
Lets assume that the judge is not stupid. She is well aware of Microsoft's legal history and how they will interpret the judgement. By getting Microsoft to agree to this rather open ended authority over every aspect of the judgement she can force a particular interpretation against Microsoft's wishes, and she can do it unilatrially without the participation of the DOJ or anyone else.
For example consider Microsoft's much maligned EULA regarding the specification for CIFS that prevents open source developers from using it. Section VII would allow the judge to declare that SAMBA has a "reasonable business need" for access and "meets reasonable, objective standards" regarding viability, or she could simply declare that the CIFS license is discriminatory. Either case could be used to force Microsoft to change the license.
I am sure that Microsoft knows the pitfalls of this section, but what choice do they have. This is their agreement, they negotiated it with the DOJ and argued in court long and hard that this was the best solution. Suddenly deciding now that they don't like it anymore is not a politically viable option and it would opens them up to charges of obstructionism.
I cant read minds, I don't know if this is actually the judges plan, however it would be a crafty way of forcing both a stricter settlement and a faster settlement.
Or it could simply be a drowning man grasping at straws.
1. Open Source still delivers the best product at the best price. That speaks for itself in any language. Full speed ahead. 2. When Microsoft goes bankrupt in five years and Open Source takes over the market, nobody will be able to whine that it was because of sanctions imposed by the government. 3. When the law doesn't protect The People, then The People are not bound by the law. With this ruling, the court has abdicated its authority with regards to the enforcement of antitrust law. We The People have thus been granted the absolute moral right to hack, pirate, and reverse engineer any Microsoft product or protocol to ensure competition and compatibility.
The Republican controlled U.S. governemnt was never going to let anything bad happen to Microsoft. The Republican's favor was bought and paid for by the millions in campaign contributions from Microsoft in the last election. Microsoft has basically received a green light from the U.S. government that it is business as usual. As long as the Microsoft machine stays intact, it will always find loop holes around any restrictions placed on it as it has always done in the past. The DOJ settlement was basicall a farce orchestrated to make the American public think that their government was actually protecting them against a monopoly turned evil.
I am the biggest MS hater on the planet but the judge just handed us a big ole blessing in disguise. She just handed them the rope that will end up hanging them. They will most certainly use this big opportunity to turn the screws tighter on the competition as well as their own customers. This is going to continue to lead to more customer revolt, exactly what it happening today.
Got Code?
I'm disappointed by the decision but I'm even more disappointed by the inability of my fellow slashdotters to make a difference.
It's easy to bash Microsoft and praise Linux here. But what are you doing IRL? Are you leveraging your knowledge at your company to advocate OSS platforms....or do you just weigh in here and mod posts?
When a product is truly better (as I believe GNU/Linux to be) and when some really big companies are willing to back it (like IBM and Sun), all it takes is the backing of us "computer geeks" to affect the market.
Example: The last time a coworker came to me complaining about a Windows 98 problem that kept them from being able to boot to anything but safe mode, I didn't even try to explain that one of their virtual device drivers was corrupted. I fixed the driver problem, while telling them that the problem would probably never have occurred if they were running a different OS. That person happened to be one of the VPs of my company and they are now curious about GNU/Linux.
Unless you're actively affecting change, all your bitching is just noise.
--K.
Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
Someone can clarify this but the way I read #3, it had this at the end:
Doesn't this mean that Microsoft can only withold information that it's otherwise required to disclose if a government agency directs it to withold the information?
Just came here after a few hours of playing Counterstrike (and poorly), and all I could think was "Terrorists win". :)
the childish drivel that you wrote really made me realize that this entire community is a bunch of whining 10 year olds and I don't want to be a part of it. GO MICROSOFT, YOU WON!!!
People once dumped their inexpensive Apple II's, Commodores and TRS-80's for the more expensive IBM PC. The possiblity certainly exists that Mac OSX could take off in a big way, particularly since it is both easier to use than Windows, and more powerful.
.Net software figuring they can run it on mono and then discover that a new Microsoft API is available that's only available under windows because the new API's got a number of patents and royalty fees associated with it?
People dumped their inexpensive Apple II's and Commodores and TRS-80's because they all used IBM PC's at work and it made more sense to have the same machine at home as they had at work. Eventually the market share of these machines lead to the vast majority of software being developed for them and so they came to take over the market.
Linux distros are merely repackagers of software, slapping a user "friendly" veneers over it. There's nothing stopping a third party from slapping a better veneer over FreeBSD or NetBSD. This is what Apple did, and they're doing great because of it.
Doing great? In Q1 of 2002, Apple's market share for new computer sales was less than 3% of the market. That has been the case since at least 1999, regardless of OS X. They are hanging on to what they've got, but there's little evidence that they are going to be making any serious head way anytime soon.
I learned the painful lesson of the network effect back in the days of Atari. I an Atari 1040ST computer, and it was superior in every way to an IBM PC except for one REALLY important way. There were more IBM PC's out there. So, support for software dwindled, and my computer became worthless before it's time.
Linux becomes a viable option because it has a strong community of people around it developing for it. So even though there's not as much support amongst commercial vendors, one can accomplish a lot on Linux without them. So Linux isn't as hurt by the network effect as Apple is (especially because Linux runs on the same hardware as Windows).
But in order for linux to have real success going against Microsoft going forward, one of two things must happen. Either the nature of the computer marketplace has to change drastically or Linux has to be able to act as a drop-in replacement for Windows in existing networks. The first option is a possibility, no argument, but increasingly the second path is becoming very difficult.
What do the Samba people do when they can't implement Microsoft protocols? Do they start offering a closed source royalty laden version? I mean who would buy it when they can get that "free" from Microsoft. What happens when the people start writing
I'm not saying that somebody overthrowing Microsoft is impossible, but Linux is the best threat now. I think that this court case, had it ended in a better way, had a chance of helping out that cause. Linux may still do it on its own, but it's going to be a lot harder.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Today, I've seen a software company become more powerful than the world's greatest superpower.
:)
On the plus side, since we're heading towards a cyberpunk world, we can look forward to ICE and actually being able to legally kill script kiddies.
Microsoft is immune from antitrust law. People said "oh just wait until tomorrow" ... toldya. Even had the judge decided to punish MS severely, in reality, nothing could have been done.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
Pathetic. Just plain pathetic.
I know that this is already swamped in the Sea that is over 950 posts on this issue, but....
What does that lame excuse for a judge THINK is going to happen NOW?
Anyone with half a brain (read: anyone that is not a Microsoft Lemming) knows that M$ will flaunt this all over the place, any time they get a chance. They will argue that the US Courts do not consider them a monopoly (which they are; a skunk still stinks, no matter what its name is!), and the End User will suffer.
Now that I think of it, the whole Microsoft thing reminds me a lot of the Tobacco industry: it's the End User that will suffer in the end. For some, it's a fatal result, for others, they'll be lucky if they only get minor injuries... I'll leave it as an excercise to the reader to decide how the injuries end up....
When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
If any of us had tried to pull this kind of shit in court, we'd be like the guy on goatse.cx by now.
Well how's that for a coincidence. Because MS does get away with this kind of shit in court, we *are* like the guy on goatse.cx.
The only question left is "Do you prefer to be called Mr. Dover, or Ben?"
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
You left out another arbitrary exception: j.2.c J.No provision of this Final Judgment shall: 2.Prevent Microsoft from conditioning any license of any API, Documentation or Communications Protocol related to anti-piracy systems, anti-virus technologies, license enforcement mechanisms, authentication/authorization security, or third party intellectual property protection mechanisms of any Microsoft product to any person or entity on the requirement that the licensee: (c)meets reasonable, objective standards established by Microsoft for certifying the authenticity and viability of its business,
...we will NEVER get rid of it!!!
>80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
>life
Over time, Microsoft will destroy itslef. It is the nature of the corporation to grow to a point where it is no longer nimble enough to compete with smaller quicker acting companies. Breakign Microsoft up, would create dozens of small nimble companeis all with the Microsoft culture. Nobody would be able to compete. The breakup of Standard Oil and AT&T shoudl serve as a grat lesson to all about corporate breakups; all they do is create companues which treat their customers worse and are more greedy than the original monopoly. Sears, Woolworth and all the othe large companies which grew huge, got arrogant and fell should serve as an indication of where Microsoft will eventually land.
Remember when Intel was forced to open the x86 architecture, because of that clones appeared and further entrnched the x86 architecture into the pc world. Had that not happened, the superior 68k architecture just might have supplanted the inferior x86 architecture.
At least the government has learned from the past
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
It's indeed invigorating to finally see that anti-competitive corporations like SUN and Netscape, after spending millions of dollars lobbying in Washington and hiring out the likes of Bob Dole and Judge Bork as paid, professional lobbyists--are in the end completely unsuccessful in using the government as a tool and a dupe to remove Microsoft as a competitor (as these companies were unable to do in the marketplace.)
It's gratifying to see that saner, cooler heads do, in the end, prevail. A lot of bad effects, not the least of which is the loss of public confidence in the technology sector, have come out of this decade-long drive by SUN and Netscape to run Microsoft out of business by slander, innuendo and accusation. It was always extremely naive of these companies to think that any negative effects from these actions would be neatly curtailed to Microsoft and would not spill out into the industry as a whole. Nothing good has come out of this suit for anybody, as far as I can see, and the best thing that has happened so far is that we are approaching the end of this embarrassing debacle (which saw grown men in front of Congress in televised hearings in which the topic of debate was not nuclear or biological disarmament, as the mood and emphasis would suggest, but rather THE EVILS OF THE INTERNET BROWSER INTERNET EXPLORER AND ITS THREAT TO ALL OF MANKIND.) Embarrassing is definitely the word.
In the recent years a few important things have been decided by our government which have actually helped me to start respecting it again--this is one of them. While the technology sector, of which I am undeniably a part, may wish to rend and tear itself to shreds in spasms of jealousy and envy, at least some of our government officials have their heads screwed on straight and are not nitwits to be manipulated by some highly paid snake-oil salesmen who served as lobbyists for companies like Netscape and SUN. Unfortunately, and predictibly, some of our government people were skillfully manipulated by appeals to their vanity achieved with an appreciation for their ignorance in technological matters, but in the end the ones with the real clout made the final decisions and have proven thmeselves to be anything but nitwits.
It's the first time in a long time I can say, "Three cheers for the government," and mean it. I *wish* I could say the same for the technology sector as a whole, but I can't.
That is precisely the anti-capitalist solution. Capitalism is the rule of capital -- the rule of wealth and privelege, the division of socio-economic classes, and the powerlessness of the poor. Capitalism != free enterprise! The overthrow of capitalism is the key to free enterprise.
Look further.
Who ensures they are complying with the settlement? A committee made up of Microsoft
Board members. If this isn't letting the fox guard the hen-house, I'm not sure what is.
As to the specific API and OEM problems you point out, the API security loophole has already been discussed to death above, but examine the terms of these OEM deals. They only have to be put on a publically accessible website. Accessible doesn't necessarily mean findable, nor does it mean it has to stay in the same place. So how does any particular company know that they're looking at the same publically accessible page as any other company? If we assume (as we are) that MS is not a company that is above lying, deception, and illegal practices, please tell me why you think they'll play by the rules of the settlement? (ie, who's to say they won't create more than one "uniform terms agreement" depending on what they want, and show each various company a different one? Their watchdogs are themselves, remember.)
Finally, what are the penalties listed if they don't comply with this settlement (and it gets reported)? The settlement term is extended - which I guess means they won't be complying with it for a longer period.
In other words:
If they didn't follow the terms of the consent decree they agreed to previously (and they didn't), what makes you think they'll follow the terms of this settlement?
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
PARTAY!!!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It is not offtopic.
I think you are missing the full quotes.
From the AP:
She also eliminated a technical committee that would have enforced the settlement terms. In its place, a corporate committee - consisting of board members who aren't Microsoft employees - will make sure the company lives up to the deal. The judge also gave herself more oversight authority.
From NEWS.COM:
Kollar-Kotelly also modified the oversight of Microsoft's compliance with the settlement. Originally, the proposal included a technical committee and an internal compliance officer, both potentially influenced by Microsoft. In Friday's ruling, the judge combined the two into a compliance committee made up of Microsoft board members. In turn, the committee must hire a compliance officer, to report to the committee and to Microsoft's CEO. As corporate officers and non-Microsoft employees, the compliance committee in theory would be more likely to appropriately enforce the settlement in this era of renewed corporate responsibility.
It seems to make some sense since the board members (including Mr. Gates) can be held personally and financialy responsable for conduct that violates the settlement.
It ain't the best, but it's still better than ICANN.
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
This should have been filed under the "poke-them-with-the-soft-cushions dept"
YOU BITCHES!
SUCK MY DICK BITCH!!!
SUCK MY DICK!!!
OPEN UP WIIIIDE!!
dont use so mannnnny caps its like yelling mmmmkay?
dont use so mannnnny caps its like yelling mmmmkay?
dont use so mannnnny caps its like yelling mmmmkay?
Here's a screenshot of what I saw when I loaded this page:
http://images.805net.com/msft/slashdot_msft.gif
Should I be angry or worried?
let us hope that the Europeans are not as corrupt. newsfromtheedge.org
I did, did you? :) Anyway, do you have some secret knowledge about the other content/meaning hidden in the formatting of the legal judgments than the actual characters representing the judgment. Otherwise, next time, come with an argument which is not analogy of "You died, because you dropped dead." :)
Nothing in this provision shall prohibit Microsoft from enforcing any provision of any license
with any OEM or any intellectual property right that is not inconsistent with this Final Judgment.
In other words, this order allows Microsoft to use or create bogus intellectual property (e.g., patents on protocols and formats) just to control its OEMs and to disadvantage its competitors. Same game, different cards.
Using the language of this order, Microsoft can hide behind any thin veneer of deniability. For example, it can argue that there exists some legitmate purpose for the IP in question, even if the primary function ends up being simple exercise of control. It's a cinch that Bush's DoJ will be cooperative in looking the other way, or rubber stamping whatever reasons suit Microsoft to put forth as explanations for restrictive IP licenses.
It's quite insufficient just to say that this judge's order will fail to correct the past anticompetitive behaviour or prevent more of it in the future. It's more accurate to say that the order simply blesses Microsoft's behaviour patterns and provides abundant possibilities for strategems to circumvent whatever small inconvenience the order may present.
So I do not think that this order is in the public interest. But I'm not surprised at this. I can only conclude that Bill Gates' apparent contempt for the U.S. justice system is justified.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
MS wins, they just have to sit and wait for 5 years. In the mean time they can code a new OS, API, or Product the same way they have been for years now. The consumers are just led like sheep to the slaughter, when the new product(s) comes out they will flock to the stores, buy it and pay way too much. Why, because they don't know any better. They take what they are fed, and they are fed MS. Thats what all the stores sell. Thats what they use at work, why would they want to learn something else.
That's the watchdog. Not the committee. The committee is a figurehead- or a directive as to how to comply, and who is to be hands-on with complying with the judgement. She's having members of the board of directors get their hands dirty with it- possibly as a set-up in case they do continue to misbehave, so they can't claim ignorance.
I think Judge Kollar-Kotelly is pretty damned smart, really. Instead of doing squat to them now, she's setting up a situation in which IF they immediately reform, they get off scot free. And if they persist in misbehaving, it can backfire on them in more ways than you could imagine. She seems to have set it up that way- perhaps in the belief that, if she had acted more directly, the appeals court would overturn her remedy too? Note how she sucks up to the appeals court.
He's gonna have a party tonight, party tonight. With Steve "Monkeyboy" Ballmer doing his little dance.
I however believe that it is too late for that. MicroSoft is way too powerful, so powerful that only "geeks in their parents basements" are willing to waste time to try to fight them. Every time you insult Linux you are adding proof to the fact that MicroSoft is a monopoly that has hurt the computer industry immesurably.
Last post!! Oh Yeah!
He needed to get some cash so he can buy a thousand pissant companies and "integrate" a few lines of code from each into portions of windows, since MS will not have to disclose "Communications protocols and APIs", where it would affect "3rd-party" IP.
2^10 th post!!! Oh Yeah!!!
sigh
That sucks.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
You can't eat it sideways without everything falling off, hence one of the major advantages of the old cut.
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A big win for Microsoft.
.NET
A real slam dunk.
And for the rest of us?
Nothin' but
So, let me get this straight, MS doesn't have to release the API's involving how programs interact to non-commercial entities? MS' biggest threat is GNU/Linux, yet they don't have to release the API's to how their programs interact with the OS to non-profits? What a crock of shit.
As someone else said, MS should be required to make ANY AND ALL RELEVANT information available to ANYONE who wants to make a product which interacts well with Windows, or who wants to make an OS which will interact well with programs designed to run on windows.
Even with these provisions, you need enforcement and quick resolution for conflicts. With such a resolution, MS would undoubtedly insist that what people were reasonably requiring from them isn't necessary for interoperability; thus, we need a quick way to resolve and enforce this within a matter of a few days, where MS can't appeal endlessly using their lawyer power.
This deal is a joke.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I bet the fatcats at the top realized they could speed up the bun-slicing process by getting rid of the old cut and introducing the simpler new cut. What do you think? This increase in speed means faster processing of customers.
NATO is a military organization. Why would they have weapons inspectors?
Besides being unbelievably off topic, your contribution to the discussion is non sequitur to Microsoft.
What swamp are you currently living in?
Laws are for people with no friends.
Once again, your lame and ineffective zealotry proves worthless, and reason prevails.
In short,
FUCK YOU
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!1!
"Today's decision provides certainty and stability to a vital sector of America's economy," Ashcroft said.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Hate to sound like a troll, but I think everybody is blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. Every once in a while somebody needs to remind slashdot that Linux makes for a marginally useful general purpose operating system. Microsoft dominates the market because their products are better, plain and simple (unless you define better as "can run on a 386 with 4mb of RAM").
:) and then put my money into the one that I like the best. Microsoft doesn't always win, but Linux-based products NEVER seem to win. Make a better product, and my money and support is yours. Until then, it seems like spilt milk to me.
I couldn't care less about what marketting practices Microsoft uses; as far as I am concerned, let it be survival of the fittest.
Windows 98 sucked, I will grant you that, but Windows 2000/XP are fantastic operating systems. All of the Microsoft Office products do everything I could possibly want to do and then some. And above all, I consider the price of it all quite reasonable.
I have tried Linux and Star Office, etc, and quite frankly they suck compared to Microsoft products. They always lag behind in features, ease of use, and compatibility. I know it's not a popular opinion here at Slashdot, but until you give people like me a compelling reason to change, why should I? I am getting more than I need already from Microsoft for a price I consider reasonable.
I am not a blind follower of Microsoft. For the few products I actually use day to day, I generally try several different options (warez
(on topic now?, morons)
:) and then put my money into the one that I like the best. Microsoft doesn't always win, but Linux-based products NEVER seem to win. Make a better product, and my money and support is yours. Until then, it seems like spilt milk to me.
Hate to sound like a troll, but I think everybody is blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. Every once in a while somebody needs to remind slashdot that Linux makes for a marginally useful general purpose operating system. Microsoft dominates the market because their products are better, plain and simple (unless you define better as "can run on a 386 with 4mb of RAM").
I couldn't care less about what marketting practices Microsoft uses; as far as I am concerned, let it be survival of the fittest.
Windows 98 sucked, I will grant you that, but Windows 2000/XP are fantastic operating systems. All of the Microsoft Office products do everything I could possibly want to do and then some. And above all, I consider the price of it all quite reasonable.
I have tried Linux and Star Office, etc, and quite frankly they suck compared to Microsoft products. They always lag behind in features, ease of use, and compatibility. I know it's not a popular opinion here at Slashdot, but until you give people like me a compelling reason to change, why should I? I am getting more than I need already from Microsoft for a price I consider reasonable.
I am not a blind follower of Microsoft. For the few products I actually use day to day, I generally try several different options (warez
When the USA decides that a monopoly is OK-ish, it does not mean that you have to buy into that monopoly. Microsoft is big as it holds the keys to many data formats that are proprietary. The next software from Redmond has different formats and will therefore be incompatible for those that do no "upgrade" to the new software. So when you do not buy into the hype and return data thhat you cannot read, the message that was send to you will become a challenge to the sender: how do I get my message across?
When open formats like the ones sponsored by Open Office are NOT to be supported by Microsoft we have a similar chicken and egg sitation. However, as these formats are taken up by governments and institutions, it will be increasingly difficult for organisations and people NOT to be able to read those formats.
Another thing is that you may not be able to buy a PC from the likes of IBM or DELL without a Microsoft license. Do consider then NOT to buy such a system; buy it at a local shop, build one from parts.
Look around where the functionality that you require is at what cost. Then vote with your wallet and vote with your feet.
True that they could be held responsible for misconduct, but would they be? Would they try and keep any evidence of misconduct from getting out?
It wouldn't be the first time (Worldcom et al), and I think it would have been better to mandate their be at least one (possibly more) unbiased, impartial representative on any such committee; someone who didn't answer to MS and wasn't on their payroll (although odds are they would be at some point, maybe have someone in for a set term?)
This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
However, if somebody came up to me and asked if I was a satisfied customer of the Subway experience, I would have to give them a qualified "Yes!". The subs I buy there to this day continue to deliver a veritable plethora of quality flavors in addition to tackling my hefty appetite, and the employees always have a cheerful demeanor as they count out the five slices of deli chicken and four halves of cheese that goes into every Cold Cuts Combo that I order.
The changing of their bun-slicing method, while initially alarming, has tarnished the final product barely at all in my opinion, unlike the fiasco surrounding New Coke/Coca-Coca classic.
Does anyone know what this means to competition authorities in the rest of the world?
I live in Australia, and I know that when the whole Microsoft anti-trust lawsuit began, our ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) said they were watching closely, because an adverse ruling could mean M$ faces charges in Australia.
I have a feeling the same sort of thing was being said around parts of Europe.
Anyone know how the rest of the world has reacted?
If the pattern goes 9am, 10am, 11am, why isn't noon 12am?
That didn't happen (yet).
It didn't happen because the Bill of Rights has nothing to do with copyright (with the possible minor exception of the first amendment). The DMCA is unconstitutional because it exceeds congress's power to promote the progress of science and the useful arts under Article I, Section 8, Clause 8. Until the courts rule on that point, the DMCA will remain in effect.
Its too late, you only have yourselves to blame, you let MS become something like this, now theres no hope left but to suffer. this will go down in history as one of humanity's biggest stumbling block with regard to technological advancement. congratulation! you should be proud, i'm not. i'm sure Bill Gates is laughing at all of us now...
I'd gladly lose 99.99% of that fortune and still be Set For Life.
Or 99.999% and buy a Killer House
Or 99.9999% and buy a Killer Car
Or 99.99999% and buy a Killer PC
Much more to the point is the fact that he sold a total of more than 20 million shares in June and August (more than one billion dollars' worth), i.e. while Kollar-Kotelly was writing the recent decision.
Nobody ever said that US Judges came cheap.
Michael is a total fucktard; the simple fact that your post is pointing this out (which is very clearly related to this article) does not deserve a mod-down.
Clearly, the poster in the above topic wasn't talking about Microsoft, he was talking about the Justice Department in the Jose Padilla case, ignoring the Federal Courts.
Or was he? I'm not really sure anymore.
Maybe he was just talking about the general state of affairs in America, where the powerful are not beholden to the law, be they Congressmen, Senators, Presidents, or corporations, or corporate bigwigs.
In my opinion, peoples' attitudes in America need a major overhaul: for the powerful, newfound respect for right and wrong, and the law. For the law, respect for natural law. For the weak, a respect for right and wrong that will force them to empower good people, not bad people.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
well then, if you decide to cease being a passive bystander, please consider joining some organisations against e.g. globalism, that is one of the things Microsoft is strongly using to gain foothold. Without WTO and such organisations, M$ would have more pain entering global markets in such a penetrating way it does right now, and maybe the EU govt would have something to say about its behaviour, since they don't benefit from M$ global monopoly in such a way the US does.
still running a x86? dinosaurs do exist!
I tried to to hold back most of the bias
Everything you write will be biased. Everything you do, say and think, is tainted by your previous actions and current knowledge. Nothing can be writen in an unbiased fashion, so get over it. Don't try. The most unbiased thing you could do is to provide a list of links to your sources with no editiorial comentry. Of course, even the links your choose can biased. Maybe just a single link to Google news, like this.
He's not trolling. Everything the grandparent AC says is correct. If you want to be taken seriously, you have a hell of a long way to go. For a start, your peice is litered with spelling and gramar mistakes. You say you havn't proof read it yet, and thats fine, but if that is the case, why have you posted it here, and why are you here posting to Slashdot, rather than off proof reading it right now?
Second, your actions speak louder than your words. I don't want to be told that Microsoft is evil, that I should wipe them off of my system, by someone who has Windows installed "just to play a game".
Didn't happen AFIAKT. Should have been visible here
Or alternatively, there's going to be the biggest ever cookout in Redmond this weekend, for all the loyal employees that didn't fork over incriminating evidence...
to "Slashdote" (verb), when a geek stares in awe at something technology related, cooing over it, showering it in praise. (Derived from modern English: slash from slashdot and dote from... well... dote)
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will! - Antonio Gramsci.
$71,415,000,000 I'd gladly lose 99.99% of that fortune and still be Set For Life.
Or 99.999% and buy a Killer House
Or 99.9999% and buy a Killer Car
Or 99.99999% and buy a Killer PC
Or 99.999999% and hire a Killer.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
"Overall: a massive win for Microsoft, who can restrict the release of its APIs to major commercial companies only."
What did you expect? Justice, fairness?
I believe when you are publishing something as important as this, you can't simply use
The ruling says that they must not discriminate against companies that offer more than one O/S via a boot manager. It doesn't restrict them from retaliating against a vendor that offers Windows on Product A and Linux (single boot) on Product B. If companies want to ship a Linux box as a side-line they will have to spin-off the product (thereby losing brand awareness) to protect their core business.
How did you find these files before the links were posted? Sorry, newbie.
Don't worry, we'll do better in Europe.
Specially, because the perspective is slightly different here:
Is ok for us an american company to have so much power in Europe?
.... the best result money could buy.
The White House and the Justice Department are jointly owned subsidiaries of both the NRA and M$. We will need to see how things work out for the big guys to see if Enron still is a part owner.
You know, the same folks who set up Stephen Barkto are probably responsible for "Slashdotting". I'm sick of hearing about it, especially from trolls who offer nothing useful on topic.
I think this judgment underscores an important point for those of us who are anti-MS. Politicians and Judges are not going to be our allies for some time because of ignorance primarily. Further, many are on the take from MS (albeit legally). Ultimately humans want to survive. I'd like to keep some faith in humanity here but I seriously think someone likely pressured the judge in this case, as they did Judge Jackson. We have to keep pressing the busniess front and eventually the politicians will follow suit. With them, the judges. It's a sad state but our generation has seen a much freer America than our children will.
>
The trial is settled (at least somewhat) in Microsoft's favor, and it takes approximately 1.2 seconds for some slashbot to blame it on Bush.
What a surprise.
I hope everyone incensed by this decision voted Democrat in 2002. We know what a lie Nader told when he said there was no difference between the parties. Quite a few states could have been Florida, so there's no excuse not to try to pick your government.
I hope everyone votes Tuesday!
Jaibe
HEY GUYS! can someone get a lawyer to translate all this is to binary for us? ( or at least plain simple English?) cuz debating among our selves for hours is going to drive us nuts! RED HAT? How bout you guys @ Slash dot? any lawyers? Commander Taco?
You must have a different cut than I do. At the local Subways, they cut a slice down the side, basically making it like a normal, 'cut in half' sandwich, except that one edge remains intact.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
This seems to be a case of over-reaction. The section, Windows XP provides no local security of the article says, "Windows XP has two fundamental security limitations. One is true of all operating systems. The other is true only of all Microsoft Windows operating systems, and is not a problem with BSD or Linux, for example."
Earlier versions of the article were worded in such a way that they might be mis-interpreted. Is it possible that you did not re-load the article, and you are reading a version in your browser cache? There is a warning about this at the beginning of the article.
The current version was last updated October 28, 2002.
There is controversy about the problem listed. Windows XP, and all versions of Windows, have the vulnerability listed. The Windows OS opens many, many hidden system-level windows. Theoretically, it is possible to exploit any of these to gain full system access. However, Chris Paget has not produced a demonstration of this.
The point of the section is clearly stated, "A lot of managers are being allowed to believe that Windows XP is secure under conditions in which it isn't secure. Since it is necessary to supply a password, the impression is created that there is no other way of gaining access."
The Seattle Post Intelligencer has a different take on this - they've digested the ruling, and it looks like judge Kollar-Kotelly may not have sold out as completely as some may think.
Here's the link - look at the quote from Machiavelli's The Prince, the reference to sua sponte discretion, and holding the directors that spoke at the trial personally responsible for upholding the intent of the agreement.
In fact, MS may reject the agreement themselves, now. And that may be what Judge K-K was after.
Looks like this information was leaked out by the links above before the official announcement. The stock shot up big after hours when the official news hit. Did any slashdotter's take advantage of the leak?
You break the law, you brush up against the fence. You get a nice shock. If you are an individual the biggest shock comes from jail time. If you are a corp the biggest shock comes from large fines. No shock, no deterent, no change in behavior.
How many days from now will microsoft seriously harm another company with uncompetitive behavior because they have not been detered?
The Wall Street Journal has an AP story about the early posting of the decision.
WASHINGTON -- The landmark decision in the Microsoft antitrust trial was supposed to remain secret until after financial markets closed, but the federal court quietly posted the documents on its Web site (www.dcd.uscourts.gov) nearly 90 minutes before the closing bell.
That discovery by some Internet enthusiasts coincided with a flurry of late-day trading of Microsoft's stock. Its price, which had been falling most of Friday, ticked up just moments after the court placed on its Web site the decision that handed Microsoft a huge victory.
Late-day trading peaked five minutes before markets closed, when $90 million worth of Microsoft shares exchanged hands. Microsoft traded on the Nasdaq Stock Market at $52.22 in the moments before the court posted its ruling Friday; the price climbed as high as $53.12 at 3:40 p.m., still 20 minutes before anyone was supposed to know the outcome of the antitrust case, then settled to close at $53. Its stock rose $3.32, or 6.3%, to $56.32 in after-hours trading.
The incident meant tech-savvy Web surfers knew the judge's decision fully one hour before even lawyers for Microsoft and the Justice Department. A glitch in Internet technology, which was at the heart of the antitrust trial, contributed to the early disclosure.
"Somebody wasn't thinking," said David Farber, an Internet expert and former chief technologist for the Federal Communications Commission. "They probably uploaded it just to make sure they wouldn't have any trouble, assuming that no one read it, which was probably naive. They're going to have to be a lot more careful."
U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly had intended to provide individual, printed copies of her decisions to Microsoft and government lawyers at 4 p.m. Friday, then make her decisions available publicly on the court's Web site a half-hour later.
Those plans, outlined in advance to lawyers and journalists, are commonly invoked by judges in major corporate trials and intended to prevent any manipulation of financial markets.
But electronic timestamps for the court's Internet computer indicate that the decisions were published at 2:40 p.m. Friday to a location on its Internet site called "Opinions/2002/Kotelly," which anyone with a Web browser could reach without a password. The rulings, in seven parts, were stored under filenames that included "FinalDecree" and "StateSettlement."
Technicians at the court could have made that location effectively invisible to visitors with a simple change to their computer software.
The first public announcement that the Microsoft decisions were available early came at 3:33 p.m. Friday, when an editor at Slashdot.org (www.slashdot.org), a Web site for technology experts, published them.
A spokesman, Jamie McCarthy, said an unidentified Slashdot reader sent a tip about the files on the court's Web site at 3:09 p.m. Records showed that 4,026 people viewed the information on Slashdot before 4 p.m. Friday, when the judge's decisions were handed to lawyers in Washington.
Copyright (c) 2002 The Associated Press
Updated November 1, 2002 11:05 p.m. EST
I'm thinking there should be subway troll club.
I know it may seem strange but Linux is about the only product to benefit from this flawed decision.
The reason is simple but not easy to see.
Microsoft has been given the go-ahead to continue to force the sale of many key Microsoft branded applications just by simple packaging (or commingling). Allowing icons to be moved around is meaningless. But, how does this benefit Linux?
Linux will always include a lot more software than any Microsoft product. That is true today and it will be even more true tomorrow and on into the future. What this decision does is almost make certain that Microsoft will continue to bundle a whole slew of applications with it's operating system keeping the price high and out of site. That benefits Linux tremendously.
If Microsoft were forced to split off some of these applications, they would also be offering a barebones OS which would cost a lot less. Without that obligation on their part it is unlikely they will make that choice on their own leaving Microsoft stuff always overpriced, insecure (due to all the crap with bugs) and in appropriate for just about all markets.
The one advantage that Linux has over Microsoft is the ability to offer multiple distributions for many key markets. Just look at Xandros (and now SuSE) offering CrossOverOffice along with the OS but Mandrake leaving that out. Other distros could include StarOffice but leave out CrossOver, etc. The result will be a wide selection of Linux choices all of which cost less than Microsoft but do not all include everything. If any distro wants to include everything (including those packages that do cost money), it would likely be just as expensive as Microsoft now.
But, the Linux market can specialize its distributions. Those companies that want the CrossOver capability can get it with the distro they pick. Those companies that prefer the Xandros File Manager and CrossOver can pick it. Those that only want true Linux applications including OpenOffice (no premium added on) can pick from lessor cost distros.
Microsoft could bring out 6 different versions of their XP product. But, they will not until such time as they think competition requires it. But, then it will be too late.
By then all serious software companies will focus upon Linux simply because their ability to grow and expand will not be illegally cut short by Microsoft. There is a reason why all non-Microsoft browsers are cross platform. And, there is a very good reason why all new browsers will also be cross platform. Microsoft has and will preclude any such market on Microsoft systems.
The problem is that even though Linux will benefit, consumers for the moment remain screwed. And, the industry also remains suspended. Not the Linux part of the industry. But, the Microsoft part. And, that in the long term is going to cut Microsoft out of the industry itself. It is only a matter of time until all software developes choose Linux (or some other platform) to operate free of illegal Microsoft activity.
This all assumes that OEMs can market non-Microsoft systems. And, while this is somewhat questionable today, there is no way that HP, IBM, DELL, GateWay and others are going to allow SUN to have that market all to itself. As indeed, some of them already try to approach particular market segments with Linux products. But, that will expand as the SUN and WalMart type companies begin to make some real money selling Linux desktops.
In the long run this decision is fine. In the short run it is meaningless.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
What a surprise!! Microsoft gets a slap on the wrist, if THAT. This is the most pathetic
excuse of a ruling I've seen. There are almost
no harsh restrictions, and the agreement is
designed to allow MS to worm their way to even
following those.
I am referring the following text:
J. No provision of this Final Judgment shall:
1. Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties:
(a) portions of APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of Communications Protocols the disclosure of which would compromise the security of a particular installation or group of installations of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digital rights management, encryption or authentication systems, including without limitation, keys, authorization tokens or enforcement criteria; or
(b) any API, interface or other information related to any Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do so by a governmental agency of competent jurisdiction.
With Palladium being the next big thing from Microsoft, Bill and co. are going to be able to avoid the terms of the settlement for a great deal of key things that SHOULD follow under the settlement. MS can just say, "This stuff doesn't fall under the settlement because if it did it
would compromise the "security" of Palladium."
I believe that the current Justice Department, under the leadership of Heir Ashcroft, put this part of the agreement in KNOWING that Microsoft would abuse it. The current administration
obviously (for whatever reason) does not WANT
Microsoft to be punished. They probably want MS to deploy Palladium without a hitch.
There is more than likely a behind the scenes deal going on between Ashcroft and Microsoft. In
exchange for this settlement, MS will probably
allow the government access to the data/control
of Palladium so that they can "protect us from
Terrorists" (read: control our PCs) and
"investigate potential terrorists" (read: spy on everyday citizens, and people outside the US).
Just the thing to expect from Fuhrer Bush's administration, after all.
The only real punishment for Microsoft would have been a massive breakup (the breakup Judge Jackson proposed wouldn't have done the trick). OS goes to one company. Productivity software goes to one company. Internet software goes to one company. Games (including DirectX APIs) go to one company.
The X-Box and other "home entertainment hardware" goes to an entirely different company. Other hardware (mice, keyboards) goes to another.
And so forth. There would be tons of restrictions on each of these companies, and there would have been lots of government oversight related to interaction between these companies.
Of course, that's not what happened. Instead we have Microsoft as it always was, except now Palladium pretty much has the backing of the government. Nice.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Thanks for the "moron perspective" on the issue.
What do YOU care what the rest of the world thinks? They have their own agendas, their own reasons to select technologies, and they aren't merit-based decisions. Make no mistake about it: the primary reason that other countries are rushing to adopt open source solutions is that they hate depending upon a US company (i.e., Microsoft) to supply something as essential to their computing infrastructure as the primary operating system on the planet. If Microsoft were French (or from some other EU nation), would not the French government and the EU nations adopt its operating system immediately, celebrating its success? You bet they would! They *love* to support their own.
Instead, EU nations resent Microsoft's success and see an opportunity to forcibly change their computing landscape by pushing open source technologies that their own people have much more of a hand in creating. They can further push this agenda by suing Microsoft in EU courts. These actions are entirely self-interested. I would bet that the vast majority of people in those countries (members of the Slashdot community notwithstanding) are perfectly happy with their Windows computers and would much rather use Windows than an open source alternative.
Keep in mind that the entire reason the EU was created was to better compete with the US and Asia in the world economy. And what better way to begin than to start chipping away at the world's #1 software company, which just happens to reside in the USA?
You're absolutely fooling yourself if you believe that EU nations (and the rest of the world) are fighting "the good fight" to protect their citizens from Microsoft exploitation. They fight to channel some of the software money away from Microsoft's coffers and back into their own!
That is the cut he's talking about. The old one actually cut the top out and made a little trough for the meat and veggies. I always thought it was a weird way to cut, but now I think it was pretty smart.
This would be my Fair Judgement.
1.Since Microsoft *maintained* it's monopoly illegally and the punishment should not automatically benefit it's competitors, All Microsoft Software should be banned from government institutions until it is no more a monopoly.
2.If Microsoft sued against a startup/small company for patent infringement the case will not be taken up by the courts until microsoft is no more a monopoly in that particular category of software.
3.All OEMs should be given the rights to distribute CDROMs of competing software along with a new PC. It should be mandatory for the OEM to pre-install a 'single click' software installer that installs/uninstalls software from the distributed CDROMs.
4.Microsoft Should release a version of Microsoft office for Operating Systems other than windows and mac. If it is not feasible for Microsoft, Microsoft should at least license a Software library that can read/write office documents to vendors of other OS,Office Suites for a fair amount of licence fee which is not chargeable for the end users.
5. 10% of the money microsoft spends on its product promotion should be donated to Competing software makers whose product is free(as in free beer) upon request till it becomes a non-monopoly in that particular category of software.
"Play it a bit less dramatic, and you'll find you come off as more credible and thereby get more market penetration.
I am eager to do as you say. Any guidance you have for me is welcome. However, as of 10 minutes ago 17,289 people (mostly Slashdot readers and their friends) have visited the article. Many people have responded to the request for corrections at the beginning of the article. I've made corrections whenever they were suggested and technically correct. (I haven't yet answered the last 5 messages though; I've been busy with other things.) It is a fact that any installation of Windows 98 SE can be crashed by loading too many programs in memory. Windows 98 SE is reliably unreliable. I stand by my statement of that problem.
There is an interesting social phenomenon here. No matter what someone says about Microsoft, there is someone that doesn't know about that particular abuse or problem who says that the writer is being too hard on Microsoft. So, abused users fight amongst themselves rather than recognizing the huge number of problems and abuse.
I ran a voicemail machine using a 386SX-16 and Windows 3.11 for 7 years with no downtime due to OS failure.
I agree that MS Office is extremely buggy and quirky. I rarely use it, but when I do, I often have problems. Recently I told a friend about one problem, and his response was to tell me several much more scary stories of problems he had had.
Remember, although the article is 12,000 words long, it touches on only a very, very few Microsoft abuses.
Just like Microsoft can be held responsible for conduct that violates anti-trust law?
>It seems to make some sense since the board members (including Mr. Gates) can be held personally and financialy responsable for conduct that violates the settlement.
The slit down the side is less messy than the old style if you eat it sideways, or at least at an angle.
There wasn't any way to hold the old style with one hand and eat it, either, which is pretty easy with the new style. In fact, that's about the only way to eat it, two handed is just pointless, unless it's two hands in a row.
And I put a lot of stuff on it, too, it's not just meat, of which my perfered sandwich, the BMT, has a lot of. Onions, lettuce, bell peppers, tomatoes...
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
"What do YOU care what the rest of the world thinks?" ...
"You're absolutely fooling yourself if you believe that EU nations (and the rest of the world) are fighting "the good fight" to protect their citizens from Microsoft exploitation. They fight to channel some of the software money away from Microsoft's coffers and back into their own!"
I don't see how your comments are responsive to my post at all. As a US citizen I am hopeful that the US will remain the worlds strongest economy. I don't think that can be done by moving towards isolationism. The only alternative to isolationism is to be competitive. That means software that is some combination of faster, more secure, reliable, easier to use, cheaper. I really don't care whether that happens through an Open Source process or a proprietary one, and I really don't care which companies participate in the process.
My belief is that a single company cannot get us there all on it's own. I think the best way to produce software that will compete in the world market is to produce software that DOES compete in the US market, which means there has to be competition, here in the US too.
As it is, there is only competition within the US among software companies that don't inconvenience Microsoft. Once a company shows up on their radar screen they have a choice of being acquired or singled out for special treatment (having products similar to theirs given away by Microsoft until their market share is marginalized). If I thought that this process would "scale" to the rest of the world I might be inclined, as a patriot, to say go for it Microsoft.
I don't think it will scale though. As you mentioned the EU has it's own agenda. So do the Chinese, Russians, countries of Africa Pacific Rim and South America. I don't think its fair to say that those countries are against Microsoft, or the US for that matter, but they certainly are going to act in their own self interest. If that means adapting Linux or other Open Source projects to their own needs, then thats what they will do. That is in fact what they are doing. Whether we like it or not, that trend is likely to continue. We may find in a few years that the American software preeminence has gone the same way as that of the American automobile. We'll see a lot of Americans running American made software while the rest of the world uses a mixture of products. Later the best of those products will show up on our store shelves with funny sounding names and we'll buy them too, because they will be faster, more secure, reliable, easier to use and cheaper than anything we produce.
In short: The question is not whether the Microsoft Monopoly is good for Microsoft, we know it is. The question is not whether the Microsoft monopoly can be extended to the world, we know it can't. The question is whether the Microsoft monopoly which has been allowed to stand within the United States will serve the countries best interest in the long run. I have my doubts.
Chris says that there is no window security. Everyone seems to agree about this. The problem a writer has when writing about Microsoft is that there is so much material it is not possible to check out everything. The lack of local security is the only problem listed in the article that I have not personally verified. Brian Livingston, the famous columnist is linked in the article saying what I've said here, so it is news reporting until I can give it a try myself.
I will *not* be voting for the incumbent junior Senator from South Carolina, Mr. Ernest 'Fritz' Hollings, be he ever so Democratic.
Just my opinion, but I believe that the government has failed the people it claims to protect. This is more evidence to the Corporatization of America.
The reality of the situation is this:
I am willing to be that in the next 3 months Microsoft will drop their tune that Linux is the great threat and begin to look more like the old Microsoft with their brown-shirts and goon-squads.
Those who are the threats today of Microsoft should recall Reichkristallnacht
Actually, the language of the agreement makes it really easy to not do all the things you propose. The problem is that it is not MS products or Windows applications that are covered under the "open protocols" bit. The only thing that is covered is Windows itself--the operating system. So, their network stuff, like Samba etc. is mostly covered (but mostly known already, so no real gain).
Though they argued in the case that IE is part of Windows, they will now certainly say that it is not. Since the oversight comittee is the MS board itself, and the judge is clearly sympathetic, it'll probbaly work. That means no IE or Outlook spects. Same gote with MS office. And any IM application.
On it's face, the judgement looks pretty good--but it was, frankly, clearly designed to fail. Not sure why.
It is interesting what you say. I realize I need to know more about this.
Questions: Is it true, then, that to have security we are trusting every Windows program that runs with system-level authority to check for invalid addresses? Since people are migrating from Windows 98, isn't it likely that many programs are not written with this requirement in mind? Is there any list of insecure programs? Everyone seems to agree that it is possible to elevate privileges if McAffee's old virus program is running. What other programs are commonly used that allow users to elevate from guest to administrator?
When someone writes an SUID program in Unix, or uses one, they are particularly aware that there is a problem with privilege. Is it possible that there is no real comparison with Windows programs?
Sysinternal's free utilities PMon v1.0 and Process Explorer v5.25 show a lot of system activity. I know that Windows XP opens a huge number of system-level windows. Is it possible that Microsoft has not checked all of these, so that there are some Windows XP system processes that do not check the process ID or address space? Chis Paget says in his letter to me that is quoted in my article that Microsoft violates its own guidelines. Are you saying this is not true?
There are two issues, it seems to me. What is the usual security that average installations of Windows 2000 or Windows XP owners get, considering that few people understand the vulnernabilities? Second, what is the best possible security that can be achieved by someone who does understand?
Every Windows 2000 or Windows XP program is connected to every other through a single main registry file called SOFTWARE. (The name is in all caps and has no file name extension.) On one machine, for example, this file is 25.69 megabytes; it is a huge file considering that it contains configuration information. It is possible that the vulnerability mentioned by Chris Paget could be combined with a registry access vulnerability? Do all programs that run with administrator-level check their registry entries?
My article, Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going, is particularly useful to an executive who has authority over tens or hundreds or thousands of systems. The article warns about technical issues a CEO might not otherwise understand. It is interesting to know about the problems that are likely given normal knowledge of system administrators, rather than just those that cannot be defended against and affect everyone.
I included the privilege escalation issue because Brian Livingston took it seriously, not because I checked it myself. All or almost all other problems in the article are ones I checked myself.
Want to make M$ sweat?
Make it a requirement in govt. that
before any software is used in govt. it must
have it's source code reviewed by a team.
well. it sounds good anyway.
Remember the AT&T antitrust suit? They did the same thing again. Democrats start antitrust suit. Starts looking bad for defendant. Defendant hems and haws and delays till next election while buying votes left, right and center to get Republicans in. (MS triples "campaign contributions" clicky). Republicans pressure DOJ to whimp out on breakup. End result, what started out in the interests of the people ends up being in the interests of the corporation, in short, screwed again. Glad I left the land of the fee and home of the paid.
Signed,
Happy In New Zealand
I just don't agree with you that the U.S. is somehow "isolating" itself by using Microsoft technology.
If you're referring to the government somehow standardizing on Microsoft-only technology, you're simply not right. It is true that the U.S. Government is Microsoft's top client, but that's probably more of a result of the more than 4 million federal employees and budget that dwarfs that of any private U.S. company. If you were familiar with the Department of Defense, you would know that the DoD purchases technology from any vendor that does the job as inexpensively as possible, as long as standards are met. Microsoft meets them. Try to name another enterprise-level GUI-based operating system that complies with Orange Book security standards and you'll understand my point.
But if you're talking about U.S. companies overwhelmingly using Microsoft technology, I'm not sure exactly why you think there is a problem. Companies (in the U.S. at least) are free to use whatever operating system or software they like. Some companies are proudly Apple-based, others (like Yahoo) use open source technology. But they're free to make that choice. How is this "isolationist?" Isolationism connotes forced restriction of choice; nothing like that is happening here.
I think you are wrong here. The post-Cold War world order is one of competition. Former allies are no longer "allies" in the friendly traditional sense; they are fierce competitors in a global economy. Countries do whatever they can to keep their own businesses competitive, and this includes refusing to use competitors' products. Just look at all of the subsidies and preferential treatment that Airbus Industrie gets from the EU in an attempt to compete with Boeing. Income tax breaks, land grants, and excise tax cuts. Does our government do these things for Boeing? No. And the same thing is true with Microsoft.
See, the old Sherman Anti-trust Act is hopelessly out of date. It makes no concessions whatsoever for global competition. I have NO problems in making large companies "play fair." But just because the companies are large is NO LONGER good enough reason for our government to punish them. In fact, expecting our government to punish Microsoft is similar to expecting the EU to punish Airbus, were they to start beating Boeing on every front. There's just no way it's going to happen!
I don't believe this for a second. The ONLY time that Microsoft supposedly did this was in the web browser wars. IE vs. Netscape. But just try to name another product that Microsoft killed in this manner. It's just not how Microsoft typically works.
Microsoft works by steadily, continuously chipping away at your market share by improving its products relentlessly. Microsoft Office killed off strong, incumbent competition from Corel and Lotus by consistently making a superior product. Office has NEVER been free, or even inexpensive relative to the competition.
And there are counter-examples that show that Microsoft isn't always the "competition killer" that you're trying to make it out to be. Microsoft Money has utterly failed to kill off Intuit's Quicken, which has developed a veritable financial software empire. Adobe Photoshop trounces anything MS has to offer, and MS FrontPage is hardly a killer in the HTML editing market. MS has yet to make inroads amongst the gaming market. I could spout off more MS product failures, but I think you get my point.
I agree with you that the US shouldn't back itself into a corner, locking itself into technology. But that is NOT what is happening! The US (and I'm not talking about the government here) is extremely fast and flexible at adopting new technologies. Is there anything to suggest that this will not continue in the future?
FRANCE locked itself into technology by forcing the Minitel computer network down its citizens' throats. French computer technology has not recovered yet. THAT'S what I call isolationism.
Well I think we are arguing terminology here more than anything else, for example my statement: "I don't think its fair to say that those countries are against Microsoft, or the US for that matter" was simply meant to counter the implication in your earlier post that countries using Open Source products are doing it primarily to express their hatred for the US. I meant to point out they might be doing it just to save money. Regarding Boeing, as a former employee I follow it pretty closely. On an equal playing field worldwide they would be doing even better. But each country wants its own companies to succeed, as we do, and it is futile to wish it not so. Airbus may be a thorn in Boeing side, but the money dumped into Airbus to allow them to undercut Boeing prices will continue to be a drag on the Eropean economies. I've read remarks from founders of software companies that eventually got baught by Microsoft. At least some of them say they would rather have stayed in business rather than take the few million they got for the rights to their products, but they knew that the alternative to taking the money would be to have a free equivalent bundled into Windows eventually. they took the easy way out. The competition between Microsoft and (Corel, Wordperfect, Adobe, etc) was not on a level playing field either once Windows started to become the standard operating system. Had the APIs for Windows been completely open it would have been a different story. That issue was a key part of the antitrust suit and a key part of what remedy there was. Balmer himself has conceded that Microsoft has gotten lazy in some spots. He knows its going to be an uphill battle against software which can be had for nothing. MS admits that Linux (and Open Source) are the biggest threats to their continued growth. It will be a dose of their own medicine, and I look forward to seeing how well they will take it. Regardless of how well Microsoft does going forward I think Open Source has a secure future, the only horse I have in this race is the hope that the US plays a leading role in the development of Open Source and does not end up just following what everyone else is doing. There's plenty of money to be generated in the process too.
It's 4:40 AM, and I have not thoroughly read this post. I will read it this evening.
i see the gross demonstration of technological retartdation generated by those of the m$ flavor. i have not seen where this has benefited our great land at all.
i see the indifference of hurtful greed from the executive branch influencing the judicial branch. this puzzels me.
i can only hope that florida will not be the pivital state in our nations next presidential election. for i have grown tired of the lack of benefit the bush family membes have offered.
Microsoft may offer 6 systems but I mean 6 that consumers buying PCs by the thousands can choose between.
A company looking to outfit 10,000 desktops does not have but one perhaps two choices from Microsoft. And, the highly insecure and inferior Microsoft products bundled in make both those choices too expensive.
It is one thing to lie about IE being free to the public. It is another to R&D IE on an ongoing basic without having it affect the price of the product it is bundled with. IE was only free when downloaded (or otherwise not associated with the payment of money). That is the economic reality.
The Microsoft Media player is in the same position. They can lie that it is free when you pay $200-$250 for the OS. But, they still have to fork over the R&D monies. And, they simply can not compete with free software.
Linux (even the ones you pay for) will always be cheaper because of its ability to offer a multitude of choices each geared for a particular market.
For example, there is great value in Xandros and SuSE offering CrossOver Office with their distros albeit for a price. If corporate accounts want to run the Microsoft crap on Linux they can. But, it would disadvantage Linux if all distros had to pay the cost for those added technologies. Mandrake (and others) can undersell Xandros and SuSE versions as long as they include CrossOverOffice. And, that applies to any and all technologies (such as StarOffice) that serve to increase the cost and eventually the retail price of the product.
That is a flexibility that only Linux will provide unless Microsoft abandones its illegal activities as being harmful to its own interests. And, no, the Server, Web Appliance, DataCenter, Tablet and Media Center editions do not help the business office nor the individual PC consumer. They remain with no choices from Microsoft except the high priced bundled of inferior products which they are forced to use and support.
Not interested. And, neither will be the consumer once their choices are made clear.
Those that want enhanced technology can buy that. Those who want a cheaper version without all the extra expensive crap can get that. But, only on Linux.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Look, there is a place for this pro-Democrat FUD, and it's called the Democratic National Convention.
This decision has NOTHING to do with Ashcroft, Kotelly was the judge, and she was a CLINTON appointee. When it comes down to it, JACKSON blew this case, and the states didn't feel like waiting around for a Part 2, so most settled for crap. I can't blame DOJ, and I'm not sure that it would have been too different under Clinton. Though misguided, it's hard to argue with the idea that getting consumers some benefit is better than retrying the case until it's irrelevant and Microsoft no longer cares, so they settle.
Anyone see what Harvey Pitt's been doing lately?
I hear what NPR tells me, since they hate all things Bush administration. Face it, he could have crucified Ken Lay and you still wouldn't have thought it was enough, because he's a Republican.
We wuz robbed! Gore in '04!
I don't like Bush too much either, but running Gore is the best way to ensure his re-election. And don't start with that "robbed" crap, if you want to discount fraudulent ballots, like those cast by convicted felons that were 90+% Gore, it wouldn't have been close.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I wouldn't worry about the U.S. not playing a significant role in open source. After all, open source software started in the U.S., right? Where would the movement be without BSD 4.4? Open source is continuing strong at Berkeley and Carnegie Mellon and several other universities in the academic scene, and at companies like Red Hat, which is still the dominant distribution in the business sector the last time I checked. Red Hat in particular continues to innovate and push Linux in its own unique direction. Some may complain about its particular choices, but most silently approve.
The world has a long way to go to catch up with U.S. technology. Mostly it stems from defense research, which continues to provide innovations and truly original ideas such as the world has never before witnessed. You probably saw some impressive things at Boeing, depending on which part of the company you were with.
The U.S. invented software (along with the digital computer, the transistor, the integrated circuit, the compiler, the internet, and too many other things to mention). I just don't see the U.S. (as a whole) losing sight of what is software state-of-the-art anytime soon.
This is not the age of pamphleteers. It is the age of the engineers. The
spark-gap is mightier than the pen. Democracy will not be salvaged by men
who talk fluently, debate forcefully and quote aptly.
-- Lancelot Hogben, Science for the Citizen, 1938
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