Slashdot Mirror
First Matrix Reloaded Review
EpsCylonB writes "The IMDB is reporting that the London Daily mirror has the first review of the Matrix Reloaded. Sounds like the Wachowski borthers have gone for an all out action movie which is a shame if true. What I liked most about the original was the way it blended stunning action with a subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality." I'll hold judgement until the closing credits myself.
Its supposed to make money, not innovate all over again.
It is our destiny.
I believe this review holds, for each and everyone of us, the greatest spoiler of our lives.
** By the way **, the site was already running a bit slow when I previewed this article, so just in case, the article text:
FIRST REVIEW OF STUNNING NEW MATRIX MOVIE
May 7 2003
WORLD EXCLUSIVE
From Jackie Winter In Los Angeles
AT THE start of The Matrix Reloaded, Laurence Fishburne turns to Keanu Reeves and says: "This is going to be difficult." How right he is.
The much-anticipated sequel to 1999's cult classic sees all manner of kung-fu warriors and evil machines thrown at Reeves in an orgy of highly-choreographed martial arts mayhem.
The Matrix Reloaded picks up where the original left off - but explodes the action and special effects by a factor of 10.
There are more fights, more crashes and more action in two hours than a hundred other sci-fi movies combined. But the highlight is a spectacular freeway demolition derby which takes car chases to a whole new level.
And the first film's groundbreaking slow-motion/freeze-frame effects have been further extended, tweaked and enhanced to make them even more eye-popping than before.
But if you're looking for something a little more than crash, bang, wallop then this second instalment will leave you cold. Reloaded is crammed full of the cod philosophy that fans of the original loved but which left me distinctly unimpressed.
The plot is even more convoluted than before and flits between everything from religion to quantum physics and mathematics.
When we last saw Neo (Keanu Reeves), he was preparing to lead a revolt against the machines that had enslaved all of humanity - and that were now threatening to attack the last human city of Zion.
Recognised by Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) as The One, the potential saviour of mankind learned how to manipulate the computer program that is our world.
Now Neo has honed those skills until he can fly like Superman. It's a skill that comes in handy after he starts having dreams about his girlfriend Trinity (Carrie-Anne Moss) falling from a city skyscraper in a shower of glass.
The villain of the first film - Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving) - is back with a few new tricks up his sleeve, not least the ability to replicate himself. In one of the key scenes, Neo battles it out with first just one Smith, then eight, then 24 and finally 100.
Dressed in his shades and robe, Reeves once again deadpans his way through the movie. It's a role made for him as he has to do little more than smoulder and high kick his way through the baddies.
At least he gets a sex scene with Moss before he heads off to the city of Zion. It's one of the few breaks from the relentless action and although it sounds ridiculous, it provides a welcome diversion from the non-stop effects.
There's also some new characters like Niobe (Jada Pinkett Smith), who captains one of the rebel ships. And Persephone (Monica Bellucci), a sexy bad-girl-turned-good who hooks Neo up with the all-important Keymaker (Randall Duk Kim).
Also making an appearance are evil twins played by brothers Adrian and Neil Rayment who have, bizarrely, made the leap from handymen on Carol Vorderman's Better Homes to Hollywood stardom.
If you're looking for a deep, meaningful cinematic experience then The Matrix Reloaded is not for you. But if it's a non-stop rollercoaster ride you're after, then this movie is light years ahead of anything that's gone before.
- THE Matrix Reloaded is released on May 23. The final chapter in the trilogy, The Matrix Revolutions, is out in November.
THE Matrix Reloaded and the next film, Matrix Revolutions, were shot simultaneously in Australia over 270 days from 2001 to 2002. Combined, they cost more than £200m - £160m more than the original.
MANY believe The Matrix is cursed. In A
Your impression that the first Matrix had any philosophical content was just a glitch in the program.
-DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
Subtle philosophy? More like blatantly obvious and hackneyed oversimplification of philosophy.
If by philosophy you mean the sort of thoughts you have when you get stoned and are fascinated by the Winamp visualization plugins, then I'll agree. But if by philosophy you mean anything vaguely legitimate on an academic level (I'm talking about old dead Greek and European guys here), then you're sorely mistaken.
The "message" of the Matrix, if it can be called that, is sort of like Plato's Allegory of the cave, minus any actual intellectualism and plus a lot of guns. Don't get me wrong, it's a helluva lot of fun to watch, but you'd be hard pressed to sell it (or the vaunted "Fight Club") as a "philosophical" movie. The Matrix is philosophy in the same sense that pop music is music.
Or maybe that's just my arrogant elitist opinion. Mod down if you really want to, I suppose.
I am proud to say I have seen no trailers at all. I'm gonna see it cold release day (or before).
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
The first Matrix did have some ideas that were distinctly philosophical in nature - to (poorly) summarise "how do I know what is real, and what does 'real' mean anyway"? However, the questions have been asked, and answered, pretty much the same way in a great deal of other fiction. It's philosophical, sure, but it's well-trodden ground.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Personally, I expected this kind of response. The Matrix was fluke in that it came out of nowhere and surprised nearly everyone. The hype surrounding the sequels set the bar impossibly high. Especially when the W brothers essentially wrote themselves into a corner with the first movie. And that's not a bad thing, it's a great story. They should have simply recognized that going for more would pollute the waters. I think they would have been better off sticking to things in an "expanded universe" such as demonstrated by the Animatrix. Then they would have been freer to explore without dilluting the impact and mystique of the first him. But to each their own, I certainly plan on seeing Reloaded and Revolutions. But I have set the bar low in terms of my expectations for the same kind of experience I got from The Matrix.
Two catch-phrases stuck with me from the movie. The first one was, "There is no spoon," because it was quoted here on /., and on second thought it was kind of amusing.
But the one that really stuck was, "Guns, lots of guns." The lobby scene was one of the most poetic sequences of violent overkill I've ever seen, right up there with the Diva/Lulu music/fight scene near the end of Fifth Element.
I am purposely avoiding reviews until I see the movie, so I haven't read the link, and skipped the earlier quote. But the action is OK if it has the poetry in motion of the first one. Hopefully they've broken some new ground, if they want my money on the third movie before it gets to second-run cheap seats.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
The first time I watched The Matrix I was impressed by the philosopical aspect of it, and wowed by the action. The second time I saw how thin the plot was and how shallow the characters were, but was still impressed by the action. The third time I used my Chapter button on the DVD to skip ahead to the action, because I grew tired of the one-line philosophy.
"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real?" Please. Read fscking Decartes, he does a much better analysis of reality than Morpheus ever could. "Would you still have broken the vase if I hadn't said anything?" Christ, get that woman some Herodotus or St. Augustine. "Fate is not without a certain sense of irony." Give me a gun. I can't take it anymore.
It's pseudo-philosophy, just like Contact is pseudo-scientific. Fine for the mainstream audience, but if you've studied the subject they're touching on it's just plain insulting. So I'm glad to see that they've stopped trying to be philosophical and just stuck with what really made The Matrix successful - mind-blowing action.
Harry Knowles' site has a bunch of reviews here, here, here, and the funniest one here.
It's going to need to make money. It can't get all philosophical without hurting too many people's feelings. OTH Americans like violence (especially when its inflicted on something that doesn't look like us).
Hell, it was daring of them to make the people into food. The plugs on the guys heads/hands in the first movie made my dad so nauseous he left the theatre.
Hungry for $4.00 popcorn? I can think of something nice to gaze at while you munch. Just get out there already, I'd feel sorry for Reeves if you didn't.
I mean, he likes pot! That's cool -- big ups to my man!
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
I can hardly say that the first movie had a stunning, subtle philosophical theme. Our perception of reality is false, instead we are a battery for robot overlords. Very subtle.
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
Time magazine put a review on their website, that supposedly spoils the ending.
DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK IF YOU DO WANT THE ENDING SPOILED
Matrix spoiler
100% Insightful
The first film I saw drunk and was still able to shoot holes in the "plot".
Why use humans at all? If all you need is a powersource, stick in sheep? Less troublesome by half.
The caloric efficiency of using bodies as massive networked energy sources is a concept I don't buy. Cripes. Burning wood has to be more efficient.
Of course, if you choose that route then you don't have a story, my point exactly.
Moreover, who cares what people in the matrix think? If they revolt, so what? If I want a how do you perceive reality story, I'll take "Rosencratnz and Gildenstern are Dead" any day.
Lastly, this is a nitpick I know, but bullets travel at well over the speed of sound. I don't care how fast you pull the trigger, with the action of a semi-automatic, the bullets will likely be 100 feet apart between shots.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Besides, it has some great pics of Jada Pinket-Smith in it. Yeeeeaaaaa baby.
I'm writing a movie about the psychology of VR worlds (applied to MMORPGs) and thought it would be a neat exercise to make a list of the ways the Matrix premise could been pushed. These are straight from my notes:
But then again... it's hard to sell tickets when you make movies out of musings like those.
...of Karma.
My firends are all basically warez pirates in training so they managed to snag a copy of the preelase and have already seen it. They all liked it and said it was as good as the first one.
procrastination is a way of life aka i'll think up a sig later
Ah, a realist! *swat* *swat* *stomp* *stomp*
Yeah, this is why every Star Wars film since Episode IV: ANH has been, for me, an unfulfilled wish to achieve the same jawdropping awe. Sequels can be good, but there's the rate of declining return, as it's all become familiar and harder to impress with.
I'll hold judgement until the closing credits myself.
I've pretty much made up my mind from the trailers, it's not at the top of my list, and I may skip it in favor of something which isn't a sequel. If it featured Jay and Silent Bob, however...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Who do you believe? I'll wait and see myself.
What I liked most about the original was the way it blended stunning action with a subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality.
Subtle "philosphical" theme? I'd say more of a junior philosophical theme. The "philosophy" in The Matrix was rather primitive.
It always seems ironic that people say they like Sci-Fi because it makes them think, yet when something with a low-level philosophy like The Matrix comes along, everyone goes ape over the "questions" it poses and how it makes them think, yet The Matrix was about as advanced philosophically as BASIC is an advanced language.
No. I correct myself. BASIC is a more advanced language than The Matrix is advanced philosophy.
The bank robbery scene in HEAT. If you watch this, watch it on a EXTREMELY loud 5.1 (or better) speaker setup. You can FEEL the 5.56 rounds whizzing by your head. This scene justifies surround sound like no other does.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
They give far too much of it away, not the plot necessarily, but the action sequences and 'new characters'. I don't see they why they are pimping it so badly. People are going to want to see it anyway. The adverts should have been complete teasers. I'm tired of walking into a movie only to discover I know whats coming because of what I've seen on the adverts.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
the phillosophical theme of the matrix was as subtle as a punch in the face.
And lets face it, if you liked the phillosophical theme you would have preferred Dark City, the matrix predecessor that had a very similar plot (without the action and the kung foo).
You may as well admit it -- you liked the action.
Ron Epstein, the admin at Home Theater Forum has had a review up for a couple days. Just click on the Reloaded link on the left frame. sorry for no direct link.
where Neo is finds the buffer overflow error in the Matrix and installs Linux over the existing OS, forcing Mr. Smith to live inside VMWare session?
Agreed, but why the A.C. posting? Didn't pack the flameproof underoos?
Watching all the fawning over The Matrix makes me wonder how people might react if Bladerunner hadn't been screened until a year ago. People still wouldn't be able to get enough of it and foam at the mouth for a sequel (which, thank God, there hasn't been one.)
And all this must be making the MPAA do a respectable Montgomery Burns impersonation, "Excellent."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
for my next philosophical mindf*ck...
"What I liked most about the original was the way it blended stunning action with a subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality."
Yeah, I was rocked to my very foundation by a theme that people should have already pondered by the time they were about 12...
It was a great action movie. That people would be impressed by its "philosophical theme" is a depressing thought.
This seems like a situation in which the review may say more about the reviewer than the film. There must be some deep shit going on if Colonel West is proud of being in it. I was planning on waiting for the initial rush to pass, but I somehow suspect that the Oracle is going to do even more mind-messing than in the fist one, so maybe I'll have to fight the crowds...
I'm guessing you just skimmed it, since the reviewer actually complains that there is too much of the philisophical mumbo-jumbo.
Subtle? It was about as subtle as a foot long brown shit sitting in the middle of a white tablecloth. Philosophical content was borderline nil. The movie was kung fu, action, kung fu, babes and kung fu.
Also it's "i" before "e" except after "c".
And reading Slashdot stories about reviews counts as seeing it cold release how?
The Matrix had the subtlety of a Gwar concert!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
... In the first movie.
Wait, then I would have no reason to come back for the sequel. Damn, there goes my movie writing career.
NO NO NO! That's wrong! He's not the Keymaker, he's the Keymaster. And he gets it on with the Gatekeeper before turning into a giant dog - pet of Gozer! Jeeze!
It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
- Jerome Klapka Jerome
There's nothing wrong with Pop philosophy, but people need read the original works. Hopefully, the movie inspired some people to go read the original text and really get a mind altering experience.
At least he gets a sex scene with Moss before he heads off to the city of Zion. It's one of the few breaks from the relentless action
I don't consider a sex scene a break from action, well, not exactly...
The coolest voice ever.
I can't care less about all these bs comments. I watch movies to have fun. As long as I enjoy movie, I don't care about what others think about. (And you know that those criticists don't know jack either like us or know as much as we do in other words :)
Wherther to make the Matrix team happy or not, just enjoy the movie folks. That's all.
Nobody thinks about the same movie the same way.
buffering...
HAHAHAHAAHA
My hat goes off to you sir.
--RMT
Am I the only one who enjoyed the The Thirteenth Floor more than The Matrix? They used the same humans-living-in-a-computer concept, but while Matrix turned into a pure action movie, Thirteenth Floor continued to have a plot.
If you thought that theme was subtle, you don't get out much.
I've seen numerous movies with more subtle themes. The Matrix is about kicking ass and wearing leather.
The whole story was written from the beginning as a trilogy, so the 2nd part was the setup for the huge war. So whether it's an all-out action movie or not, it's exactly what the brothers intended it to be from the start.
Oh yes. And a great big screen so you can see the action moving on Pacino's rifle when he drops that fat guy.
The Matrix is has philosophical overtones in the same way Philip K Dick has philosophical overtones. Admittedly, I am a HUGE PKD fan but in sheer entertainment/fictional value the pulp-sensibilities of reality and perception (aka practically any pkd novel or movies like the matrix/existenz etc etc) still win me over, over say plowing through "kierkegaard/descartes/sartre etc etc" or pynchon/delillo and their ilk :)
-bloosqr
Even with all the special effects the scene in the Matrix that most impressed be was when they are shooting up the building from the helicapter and there are bullets just raining down.
Something about that scene just seamed awsome to me.
I liked the crazy action more in crouching tiger personaly.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
I dont know anything about the matrix.
..
..
.. buy why?
At least, not anything that can be described in words.
>>But if you're looking for something a little >>more than crash, bang, wallop then this second >>instalment will leave you cold.
later on
>>The plot is even more convoluted than before >>and flits between everything from religion to
>>quantum physics and mathematics.
Yea, I wouldnt expect the true nature of reality
to be all that simple, at least to humans, so
how is this guy qualified to judge how much
""information"" is in the sequal? Of course, I
dont see information on how he viewed the first
Matrix
Anyway, I also noted that the three matrix release
dates, including the planned Revolutions date,
all coincide with full moons or a couple days off.. sounds pretty unusual. Im sure they planned
it
If you're interested in facts I'll tell you what they are and I'll give you sources - Chomsky on The Big Idea
Slashdot editor, before seeing the movie, on The Matrix Reloaded:
I'll hold judgement until the closing credits myself.
Slashdot editor, before seeing the movie, on any new Star Wars movie:
Bitch bitch bitch George Lucas sucks insulting blah blah suck suck bitch bitch.
you mean Tom Sizemore? Yeah that was a epic moment right there. Any good game sniper feels that way when you have that PERFECT head shot. (Quickly followed by cries of "YOU ASSHOLE" from your buddy across the room, god i love work place lan gaming)
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
i really hope the next matrix doesn't go pseudoscience, pop-philosophy, cheeseball on us. the first movie definitely flirted with disaster a couple of times, but always managed to pull out a witty or well-phrased tidbit of legitimate philsophy or science. with the success of the first film, the wachowski's now have carte blanche to spew out whatever they want. let's hope they're smart about what they include in the film. i fear the influence of eastern philosophy (read: bullshit) and classical western philosophy (read: bullshit) will taint the next two films. what bothers me is that there's so much modern, totally groundbreaking work being done in neuroscience and philosophy of mind that are probably just going to be ignored. i'm talking about guys like dennett, fodor, searle, turing, dawkins, and damassio. why does the matrix have to dig up what some ancient dead guy said from a time when they thought the soul lived inside our pineal glands and that our brains were just radiators (descartes and aristotle, respectively). those guys might have been really smart for their time, but that was a long time ago. today's simpleton's are capable of understanding the natural world in much greater depth than any of the great philosophers or scientists of the distant past.
"What matters is which fiction you believe."
Also, it is considered of higher intellectual integrity to kindly consider a piece's arguments and fill them out as you would if you were the person proposing them in opposition to your own arguments.
I agree that it's polite to fix flaws in an argument that can easily be fixed, but read on...
Knocking a work because it does not address what you are arguing is of very low class.
Then why, when I read Slashdot, do I so often come upon accusations of putting forth a "straw man" argument? Is it because Slashdot "is of very low class"?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Imagine Will Smith getting Neo's role then doing the soundtrack to Matrix. That would have been a disaster of Battlefield Earth meets Wild Wild West proportions.
Can you imagine the famous Hallway Shootout sequence and Will Smith rapping in the background?
You mean subtle, like holding a Duracell(tm) battery to explain an energy cell to the audience?
Or subtle like Oracle(tm) pointing the audience to a chicken/egg circumstance that will "bake our noodle"?
Now, this flatly contradicts what this week's Time Magazine claimed
Full disclosure: The company that publishes Time magazine (AOL Time Warner) published this film.
Who do you believe? I'll wait and see myself.
Conspiracy theory: The Time review was expressly designed to contradict other published reviews in order to prompt a response like yours: ticket sales.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If you look at the stories he posts, they're all rather inconsequential topics. Comics, anime, games, movies, etc. Really nothing political. Hardly anything of a substantive value. And rarely anything truly about the Open Source environment.
It seems that once Taco sold out, he forgot about developing a personality and interests that go beyond his own self. I wonder if his wife is a equally as insignificant. I pray to God that someone in that family cares about something real.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Supposedly the third one is supposed to be where it gets most philosophical.
I figure the W. brothers will use that part to bludgeon us over the head with the idea that Neo is actually the anti-christ, with morpheus being satan himself.
Consider:
1. They kill wantonly within the Matrix. They are even encouraged to do so. We are told that when you die in the matrix, you die in real life.
2. He does so in a fight against an entity that won once before and is effectively all knowing to all the people there (ie, God)
3. The only other alternative is to "take" you from the matrix, into a world of damp, gruel, and constant fear. This seems to be a pretty good definition of hell if you ask me.
4. The ultimate objective is to take everybody from their current existance into this hell-like world.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Leather and boobs.
But if you're looking for something a little more than crash, bang, wallop then this second instalment will leave you cold. Reloaded is crammed full of the cod philosophy that fans of the original loved but which left me distinctly unimpressed.
Huh??? So if you're a fan of the philosophy it will leave you cold, but yet it is crammed full of the philosophy that fans of the original loved??
If you're looking for a deep, meaningful cinematic experience then The Matrix Reloaded is not for you. But if it's a non-stop rollercoaster ride you're after, then this movie is light years ahead of anything that's gone before.
Ok great, so it's going to be a good action flick, but why does he assume that even though it is 'crammed full' of the philosophy content, that you won't like it? Just because he wasn't a fan of that part of the film?
methinks this review was written rather hastily, no?
THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
Those who could only find subtexts that any ten year old can find, shouldn't blame the source, rather their analytical skills. That the Matrix is merely a comment on Plato's "shadows on the cave wall" is oversimplifying (or dare I say it! too hard for you critics to see!). There's more to the Matrix than a first-year Introduction to Philosophy. The references to poststructuralism are explicit, and more importantly, intended. Look closely at the book that Neo keeps his mini-disc in--read the books and the theory surrounding THAT text (and understand it!), and then come back and criticise--just make sure you know what you're talking about first. Until then, maybe you should learn the first lesson that a first year philosophy student learns--just because you don't see something, it doesn't mean there's nothing there.
"subtle philosophy" in the original Matrix?
Gimme a break. The science behind the Matrix is anything but. The only thing that made these films great was the harrowing action sequences.
dont read these reviews no matter how tempted you are if you havent seen the movie. rather watch the trailer for the 1000th time.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
<rant>
I just don't get all this obsession with The Matrix. Yeah, it was a cool movie. So what?
So. The sequel is "just an action flick". What do you expect? I mean, the first movie captured the goth and hacker aesthetics. Furthermore, it did so with a decent plot line. Also, it did that during a time when freaks were making $60,000 as "web designers". Now those people have normal hair cuts and colors, have pulled their piercings, and are either layed off or underemployed. Goth and network admin poseurs are so 90s now.
So what are you expecting from The Matrix Reloaded?
Quit reloading Slashdot, and quit reloading your life. Make something new. Something different. I don't care what you do. Go to Afghanistan, feed some kids, and get yourself shot. I really don't care. Just quit pissing and moaning about some stupid Hollywood attempt to milk what they think is a cash cow (but really isn't) and come back when you have something interesting to talk about.
</rant>
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Actually, the matrix applise much more to Plato's Allegory of the Cave (google search, or buy a copy of the Repubic) than it does to Descartes. Descartes main motivation behind meditations was merely to prove skeptics wrong that nothing could be proven true.
the allegory of the cave takes a much more insightful approach toward is what we see truly reality or not. and even if it isnt, is it not more real to us than reality? this is where the whole 'platonic conception' of an idea being more real than reality originated.
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
After seeing the first Matrix, I'm sure you felt blown away like I did. Later on, I wanted to know what happens next, is humanity doomed forever to be traped in a prison? This is what the next two movies are about... Yeah, there's going to be a lot of action in this one because action is required for the salvation of humanity. The newness has worn off, now it's time for fighting not thinking, maybe in Revolutions there will be more philosophical material, I don't know, maybe the ending to the series is that they find out they're in another Matrix! Whoa. (If it is, I'll shoot myself in the head.) I cannot wait for Reloaded... it's going to kick ass as the review said. Maybe one can think of the sequels as Men In Black II, nothing new was discovered, they had already introduced their secret organization. What are they going to do, introduce another one? I don't care, The Matrix series is my Star Wars.
I don't know... need to study for finals... ACK!
- Danny
Are the worst of philosophers - Kant, Hume, Plato - if people can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, THEY'RE to blame. The old dead Europeans were good at proving their irrelevance (irrationalism, scepticism, etc.) REAL philosophy is set forth by people like Aristotle, Newton, Rand.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Here's how to play: Fire up Kazaa. Search either for Matrix Reloaded or Matrix II Download matching file(s). Mailbomb the idiot that's hosting the stupid renamed movie. So far I've come up with: Almost Famous Fight Club Dumb and Dumber and The Little Mermaid Fun fun fun!
...then the old man said to me, "It's jivin' time."
AICN had the first review of Matrix Reloaded online quite a while ago. I don't know who Slashdot is trying to fool.
AICN has been running reviews all week, in fact. Sigh.
"Sufferin' succotash."
According to the Iraqi Information Minister, there is no spoon. Oh, wait...
Nothing from nowhere I'm no one at all
Have you ever scrolled through an article that you are interested in, while trying really hard not to read it?
It's a very funny feeling.
RELOADED focuses on more story and plot movement for the next movie, which will close the machine/man battle. The scene between Neo and the Archiect is pretty philosophical though and brings a very important plot twist that might change the entire Zion movement.
ROTFLMAO.
Oh yes, The Matrix, a movie, was so very, very subtle. And philosophic. It practically put Plato to shame. Oh, we are so sophisticated here. Hmmm. Could we build on this deep, deep insight and discuss how Biodome compares with Kierkegaard? "No! I will not be limited by your limited metaphysical world!"
Didn't read the review.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
Film Review: the Matrix Reloaded
If most of the questions have already been asked, then we can only hope for two things out of this movie: (1) it should generate much more discussion and perhaps a few more questions; (2) the action and special effects should be beyond all we have seen in film before.
Where are the skeptics?! :-)
WTF is the "cod philosophy"? Is that some British expression? A cod is a fish, right?
I think philosophy professors should teach the class while all the time blasting machine guns, having sex and doing kung fu shit. That would make philosophy more understandable. And yeah, have Mr Smith poke his face into class once in a while too. We'd have the whole class score A's.
In what way was part one something other than and all out sci-fi action movie?
I liked it, it didn't have space aliens and intergalactic empires for a change, but i didn't discern any "subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality."
In one of the key scenes, Neo battles it out with first just one Smith, then eight, then 24 and finally 100.
1, 8, 24, 100? That's not a very apropos way for a computer-generated anything to replicate.
Yes, please shoot me already.
BWARHARHARHARHAR...! Nice one dude. I guess it's right there on the shelf next to Keanu's Best Actor Oscars. BWARHARHAR...!
There's actually more philosophy in Conan the Barbarian.
Batlock...
"Sounds like the Wachowski borthers have gone for an all out action movie which is a shame if true. What I liked most about the original was the way it blended stunning action with a subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality."
Or maybe the reviewer didn't pick up the subtle philosophical theme in this one.
Here's the secret to immortality:
Okay, so it isn't 'subtle', but I think that the philosophical content of the Matrix resembles a late twentieth-century Marxist retort to postmodern/anarchist ethics, rather than a disembodied echo of Plato or Descartes. (In reply to apologists for the former reading: The 'real world' is far too dirty, and requires a revolution of consciousness in order to attain, rather than death, a la Plato. Plato suggests that the best we can hope for as mortals is _knowledge_ of forms, which is quite different from perception. And as for Descartes --- well, if you're painting with strokes that thick, we might as well say that any ontology which clearly distinguishes between perception and reality is Cartesian; ie, almost all philosophy ever written.) Consider the indicators: The antagonist is a 'Mr Smith' (get it? As in 'Adam'?). The object of Neo is to 'awaken' the citizens from the fripperies and consolations of decadence to the reality of tje exploitation of their energies (labour). Sure, the task will require complete subordination to those leading the revolution, but, as ugsome as such a prospect might be to senses of personal dignity and liberty, it is certainly to be favoured over the false liberty of cosmopolitan capitalism.
Or maybe it's just a movie.
- undoware.ca
People will initially mistake the Anti-Christ for the Christ.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Anyone who can come up with a story
- as original as the original
- or terms of "the way it blended stunning action with a subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality"
- AND that fits as a sequel
Gets my full respect. Matrix1 was a great idea of course, not original but new for screen and done to brilliance of course.
I supect there'll be no surprises for our expectations of the movie.
Only really hard core fans and hype wishers will be screwed - overly wishful thinking.
Don't worry it'll be a nice trilogy.
re: Aliens, Terminator:),StarWars
A blog I run for the wealth
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
I'm sorry, I enjoy The Matrix as much as the next geek, but please. Philisophical content??? The basic idea of the mind/reality seperation has been around longer than Descartes' subjectivist turn in his Meditations. Let's not put too much value in these films. They throw a mild technology element into an idea thats existed for a long time. I think the production and mythological element should be much more valued. Maybe I've just spent too much of my life buried in books (yes the ones with paper pages and ink type) but I didn't find the "world isn't real" aspect of the film(s) to be that shocking or original. It was mildly interesting at best. But the way it was presented in combination with the way that their (semi)religion was presented in the context played out in a very interesting manner.
The X-Men saga is about as interesting philisophically with the alagory (that whole civil rights thing). Then again, I'm excited about these flicks as well.
Both, I think fall in the good movies as opposed to good films category (call me snobby! please!). Apocalypse Now was a great film. Fritz Lang's catalogue were great films. The Matrix and The Matrix:Reloaded, must see? YES! Great film? eeehhhhh.... Derivative, but well presented? Probably. Only time will tell what people really think of these.
If the matrix was the first thing to make you ponder these types of questions then either you're very young or you just don't think much.
Assuming your viewpoint is formulated logically, I can come up with plenty of counter-arguments. I will refrain from using myself (there'd be some obvious bias), but I can come up with a few people off the top of my head.
The one that immediately springs to mind is my brother, an IR major at a prestigious university. He also worked as a gun control advocate. I guess, if you work from a logical point of view, you'll be renouncing your idea that only uneducated, stupid gun-nuts enjoyed the Matrix for more than being the equivalent of pop music.
The philosophy retold in the Matrix, alone, would be sparse. However, the artful way it is expressed was what made it a good movie. I admit, I have not read as much philosophy as I would like to (I'm more of a mythology buff). However, the Wachowski(sp?) brothers created quite a world, with quality characterization, to retell the philosophy. Speaking of mythology, I feel that the religious undertones and allegory have been neglected in favor of the philosophical interpretations.
Whatever you think of the movies, the Wachowski brothers put a lot of work into it. There's an absolutely amazing backstory to it. And you know what? I honestly don't care if some of the ideas (Battery critics, I'm looking at you) are impractical, because it didn't break the suspension of disbelief. I hesitate to compare their work to Tolkien's, because it's obviously not on the same level, but their world has the same depth to it to me.
I don't know. Maybe I'm one of those blunt, stupid, uneducated gun-loving types.
I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
... is what I have in my hot little hands.
... how's THAT for geek bragging rights? ;)
Evidence: photo of all fifty pre-opening night tickets.
Me and my friends will be the absolute first people in the SF Bay Area to see The Matrix: Reloaded
The Pjammer Chronicles --
Spoon boy: Do not try and avoid reading the review. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no review.
Neo: There is no review?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the review that disappears, it is only yourself.
Nevrar
"subtle philosphical theme about how we percieve reality"
You mean the boring adolescent half-understood existentialist crap between the action scenes? Well, the oracle at least was funny.
"I'm free. You're not. My reality is real. Yours isn't. Die!"
Yeah, subtle.
1) Set his reference count to zero.
2) GC him.
3)
4) Prophecy!
Political language
Just like The Lord of the Ring, the matrix IS a trilogy.. it wasnt really ever supposed to be 3 movies but given its success.. it now is.. I think its a bit wrong to judge no 2 as an all out action movie.. even if it is because just as with LOTR.. it really needs to be seen as a whole..when its done.. so.. its an important chapter in the book.. Didnt anyone notice how actionbased The Two Towers is?...lets not play old senile men with big beards sitting on a chair in the sky and casting used condoms on people until they're done with all 3. ixxo
Trinity wasn't with Neo when he visited the Oracle, and doesn't know about the incident with the spoon. So when they're standing on the top of the lift and Neo suddenly says 'there is no spoon' she must think he's a right nutter. :)
pandnotpian.org. The untruth will set you free!
Read books. 60s sci-fi would be a good place to start, since that's what the Matrix was a reworking of. Eventually, you can graduate to real books.
Matrix Reloaded rocks, by the way.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
I got to see a exhibitor screening last friday, and, to put it simply, The Matrix Reloded was the first movie that I wanted to watch again immediatly after it ended. The other people I was with also agreed that it was an increadibly good movie, not only for the action (which it seems nobody is debating) but I thought the story was really good also, and brought up some interesting points of discussion. And that alone is light years more than most summer blockbuster films. /. crowd will catch on some of the stuff.
The reviewer seems to be saying that reloaded would be a terrible movie if it were not for its action, I can only think that the reviewer is an idiot, or maybe he just didnt understand the film.
As I was talking to one of my boss, after the movie, he didnt seem to think that it would do very well (boxoffice wise) because most people would not understand some of the more complex issues that the film touched on.
There was a lot of reference to the inner workings of computer systems, very vauge references - but they were there none the less. I cannot really elaborate without giving too much away, but I am sure that a lot of the
I must say though, do not get discouraged- this is an awesome film! there are also a number of reviews on aint-it-cool-news.com
"Alcohol, cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" -Homer Simpson
... that the movie is only action, but in reality, it is not.
OK, so after they free all the minds, and defeat the computers, how are they supposed to feed all these BTU Generators?
As many fellow British Slashdotters will know, The Daily MIrror is not exactly a bastion of news intellect.
It is much better than the virtual soft pornography of the Sport but not quite up there with the broadsheets. I am not surprised that the review focuses on the violence and sex scenes rather than whether it is actually a good movie.
Ill not got off my middle class socialist soapbox and go back to my copy of the Grauniad (sic).
It's My Tea and I'll Drink it if I Want To!
... how do you choose which movies to watch?
There are few possibilites:
a)Believe the propaganda, I mean, advertisment.
b)Believe critics (If you read 5 critics and all say a movie is crap, what gives?).
c)Believe your friends (but they believed a or b above).
So a is self interestedand as such completely untrustable, c is a or b on disguise.
You are left with the critics only. If you read only one, shame on you, if you read several different opinions then you may be closer to the truth.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Whilst I found the original movie fun to watch and fully expect to enjoy the others in due course, I really didn't see it as anything more than a rather pretentious action movie. Look at the two main premises:
This is even lamer than the plot of Speed. How anybody could see philosophical implications in such idiocies is one of the real mysteries of the Matrix phenomenon. The writers simply lifted some of the mumbo jumbo from Californian zen and pumped it into an action movie--it isn't even the first time that has been done.
This has to be a troll right?
I'm smarter than the average bear.
The Matrix Reloads YOU!
I'm smarter than the average bear.
Remember what agent Smith says to Morpheus and Neo? We had created machines that were intelligent and had feelings and we made them our servants. Because they had feelings and were intelligent machines they also had an ego that was satisfied by our subjection. Sure they could have used nuclear power or something more efficient and just killed us all, but they are sick minded machines that got satisfaction out of our subversion.
Was exactly what makes me NOT leary of the second one. So many people I know thought it was nothing more than an action flick....never the wiser in regards to the REAL message.
So I for one won;t be worried until I see it. I don't trust critics enough to even come close to worrying about a review like this.
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
Then perhaps you haven't read enough western philosophy? The father of "modern" philosophy, Plato, believed that the world we see is only an incomplete projection from a world of ideas. His most famous example of this is the cave analogy, where the people in the cave only see the shadows of things in front of the cave entrance, and believe what they see in front of them is all there is.
First of all, its an allegory not an analogy. I will leave it to you to look up the difference, but it is decidedly not an analogy. Secondly, your post is one of the most hillariously ignorant I have ever read. I realize the art of bullshitting goes a long way in our modern society, but you are deluding yourself. Better becareful, pathalogical liars always get caught.
Further, you obviously have never read The Republic. That particular speech has absolutely nothing to do with this eastern concept of an illusory world. In fact, it is referring to the very concept of which I am speaking (enslaving the minds of men).
The Republic is a book about how to create the perfect society, perfect in the eyes of Plato. The allegory of the cave occurs in the chapter Warped Minds, Warped Societies, IIRC. That should give you a hint as to its purpose. The allegory is purely to show how it is possible to teach a man that the world is not as it seems. This, and other allegories ultimately lead up to Plato's concept of education of warrior/philosopher classes. But this barbaric method of "education" of the prisoner in the cave, is the way to train the lowest worker class. If you raise a man from birth so that he cannot see the real world, he will come to accept what you show him. Of course, when you take the allegory out of context (like what is done in intro books) it is easy to make the mistake you have done...
The Republic outlines a way to achieve the very society we have today, one where the state by way of schools creates a stratified society, with each class raisd to WANT to perform their duty. The man in the cave, deprived of the real world, knows no differently he doesn't WANT anything different. This is the feat our modern educational system has achieved today. The Republic was the greatest influence on the late 19th century social engineers.
Rene Descartes pondered what we can tell for sure about the world around us. His famous conclusion was "Cogito, ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am"). He meant, that one person may be just tormented by some demon who feeds him sensory information, but by thinking, the person can know for sure that he exists, and only that.
Thanks for that translation of one of the most over used phrases in history. You are so smart. I will be honest, anyone who needs to ponder their very existence is hardly a man... Rene Descartes was simply a Christian, uncertain in his faith, and needed to spend years answering these ridiculous questions on existence. For the most part, he is an abberation. Personally, I find him to be a snivelling fool, ultimately irrevelant to the world in which I live. He is the prime example of Christian narcissism.
I think your claim that western philosophy doesn't discuss the reality of the world is false. Reading a few books by Nietzsche doesn't make anyone a philosopher. I would recommend an exellent book "Sophie's World" by Jostein Gaarder as an introduction to the basics of western philosophy.
You, who do not even know the basics of the republic, telling me to read a introduction to philosophy? It seems to me friend, that if all you know about philosophy is the allegory of the cave and cogito, ergo sum you have done nothing but read introductions. Perhaps you should start reading the originals.
And, indeed, if the ideas you mention are the extent of your knowledge.. most of Nietzsche will not make sense to you. His writings are very much commentaries on all preceding philosophy, literature, and art.
The only respected "introduction" to philosophy is Bertrand Russell's
I don't read or respond to AC posts
A review in the Hollywood reporter suggests that there will be more than enough philisophical debate (which they claim stops, not motivates the plot) along with trite, repetitive action.
Let's just hope it turns out better than this review suggests.
London Daily Mirror thinks they're the first to review Reloaded. I'm thinking Time Magazine beat them to it.
- IP
Who is to say that 2 + 2 = 4 is not itself a deception
It is. Every kid knows 2 + 2 = 10. In my base 4 universe anyway.
There is no plate. Nor spoon. But there was a vase.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
would have been better played by christian bale imo
"MANY believe The Matrix is cursed. In August 2001 pop star Aaliyah, who had been cast in a supporting role, was killed in a plane crash."
Doesn't it take more than one occurence to proclaim something cursed? Jackie Chan broke just about every bone in his body, but you've never heard let's say "Rush Hour" being called "cursed," have you?
"If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty
The problem is that the whole reasoning behind that is circular.
Why do they keep humans alive and plug wires into their brains?
To use their brains to run the Matrix.
Why are they running the Matrix?
To keep humans sedated and prevent them from revolting.
Seems to me the best thing for the machines to do is just kill off all the humans and prevent any chance of revolution.
Would have been cooler if they'd kept it powers of 2.
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of paper!" - George W. Bush Nov. 2005
It appears my worst fears have come true. All that remains is to change my sig.
Beyond the philoshophical underpinnings of the movie, another subject was not touched by slashdotters: the technology behind filming it.
The burly brawl scene is entirely digital. Neo, in this scene, is a 3d model that matches 100% reality. Does this spell the end of actors as we know them ? will people be totally replaced by digital avatars ?
It's funny that a movie that talks about the liberation of man from machine enslavement actually leads towards it.
The Matrix was:
a) A movie with interesting philosophical underpinnings
b) Aurally and visually breath-taking
c) A philosophical treatise published for the academic community
d) Both A and B
e) The shocking biography of Cowboy Neal
--madgeorge
If by philosophy you mean the sort of thoughts you have when you get stoned and are fascinated by the Winamp visualization plugins, then I'll agree.
Sorry, but my brother and I have already discussed the fact that, yes, we have these questions in our heads under normal circumstances.
A related point of discussion involves color. Let's say I see a blue sphere. Now I see it through your eyes; Does it still look blue to me? Or does it look green, or orange, or something I wouldn't be able to conceive of without experiencing it?
It's a moot point, since it's still blue by the wavelength definition, but it is interesting to think about. The topic of discussion may even have applications in preparing people for vision implants.
What's this Submit thingy do?
I don't see they why they are pimping it so badly.
Because it's Hollywood. If giving it all away is going to make 10 more people come see it, that's box office revenue they want. They don't care if they ruin it for you - you're going to see it anyway.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I love when people post something misinformed. It's easier to deal with them.
Did you even read it? Harry didn't review the movie. It was sent in by someone who saw the first screener of the movie.
AICN had the first Matrix Reloaded review. And then added more and more throughout the week. Slashdot is claiming this is the first one when AICN has had at least seven up for a week now.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
No, digital avatars will never replace actors. I don't care how advanced technology gets, digitally animated characters will not replace real actors. You still need voice talent and that requires a good actor. Why pay for the voice and then spend a gazillion dollars animating that person when you could way more cheaply put a camera with film in front of the actor and have them act.
Pooty tweet
Philisophical...seperation...alagory...
If there's one thing that irritates me, it's pseudo-intellectual wankers who can't even spell the verbal diarrhoea being poured forth. Sheesh, people...if you're that clever, erudite, and well-read, you should at least be able to find the odd dictionary around the house.
In My Humble Opinion
Lord of the Rings
The Fellowship of the Ring
The Two Towers
Modus Operandi
Peter Jackson
Sublimely Inject
J.R.R. Tolkien
Action, Dialog, or Acting
The Matrix Reloaded
Concerned Pending Litigation
Off The Cuff
The Matrix (part 1)
Tantamount
Comparing In Transience
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
All Farrely Brothers
Peter Jackson
Rod Serling
Only The Few: Resident Terror
Laughing Out Loud
Bring Your Action Senses
Repair, React, Reconnect, Recover: Operation Opression
Before Finding Sara, Ask Sister Sweetly
K39-Operational Pacification Killer
Prince Jazzy Jeff
Simple Daylight Diary/Just Under Par
Whew, that's a lot of acronyms. So how many did I get right? (:
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
Try plugging it into an on-line dictionary, idiot. Diarrhea is the commonly used American spelling; diarrhoea is an acceptable alternative which is usually prevalent in other English-speaking nations.
He would have been a million times better as Neo than Keanu, although i don't have a problem with Keanu too much, but I would have expected someone with more.... expression, like B.Z. to play the role, and it would have helped out his career.
...although his role as Neo was certainly one of his best. No, I think Keanu's shining moment was his role as Prince Siddhartha in the movie Little Buddha. I heartily recommend that anyone who cares at all about good film see that movie! It still makes me cry, years later.
I have a copy on laserdisc, and I break it out about once a year.
And thankfully, he avoids sounding like a surfer dude. The last thing you need in a film like Little Buddha is to have a religious icon like The Buddha saying "Whoa!" when he attains enlightenment.
~Neo always seemed the creepy necropheliac type to me.
Wrong Movie. That was "My Own Private Idaho"
"the difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad" -Salvadore Dali
Nothing can enlighten you unless you look for enlightenment.
There are many philosophical questions in the matrix:
Is reality more then your perception? can machine be truly intelegent, or just have a wide set of parameters? Do people have a destiny, or do they have free will? is it free will if it has been manuipulated? If I say don't worry about the vase, and that causes you to turn around and thus break the vase, was that free will? destiny? Can you tell someone there destiny and strill have them achieve it?
The path to enightment is all around, you have but to see.
I used to be a philosophy student, but then I learned the questions philosophers ask most:
"You want fries with that?"
thats my joke, I own the copyright.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The bodies were all digitally created, but the facial features were all recorded from the real actor performances. There's an article about it in the latest Wired. You will always need an actor, if anything for the original model, and for voice acting. Also keep in mind that for basic scenes it's still cheaper, both in time and in money, to use mechanical effects and real actors. Something like this is only necessary when practical effects aren't feasible.
They say art is in the eye of the beholder - thats where the First Matrix struck. I just wonder how many of you just sat and said wow, THAT may-be saying it all, huh. this is it. the Matrix, the Oracle, The Blue Pill, the Agent...somehow all fits together, in a weird way maps our own experiences... Great Characters. Only the machines seemed to be week devils - they looked scary, but not too believable in da grand schemes of the Matrix. I wished to see that part better developed in the second movie. Aliens, Arthur C. Clarke, anything but kung-fu, please. And ...on a more personal note, I thought the Matrix was a bit rip-off on the Ghost in the Shell...with the running black/green cypher and all.
Anyway, It's not the tech-mech and the fu, it's not the technology, it's not the tool, it's the content. I've invested so many emotions in this, better be good.
This is for those of you who're sitting in front of your computer screens waxing eloquent about the profound subtleties (or lack thereof) that may or may not, according to the hallowed body of work left behind by such intellectual titans as Nitschze, Kierkegaard, Descartes, and Plato (hint: namedropping "The Cave" doesn't make you sound cool or particularly educated) be embodied in The Matrix: please, for the love of God, get over yourselves. It's a fucking movie. If The Matrix is so intellectually beneath you, then don't see it. Go read "The Birth of Tragedy" or something in a coffeehouse, smoke some cloves, and wear a beret or something. Because, and I can't stress this enough:
THE MATRIX IS JUST A MOVIE.
Thank you and good night.
"Cut word lines. Cut music lines. Smash the control images. Smash the control machine." - William S. Burroughs
Last Post!
(Let's see if I get away with that.)
I'll just add that what is most important to me is a good story. I love effects as well, but without a good, funny, sad or crazy story, it's just another FX project or bad fanfilm.
I was thought the Matrix pretty good, allthough I wasn't "blown away". It was good science fiction - with invented technology - not just Skiffy or space opera.
Some of my fellow MCSc students saw this film in he 0:02 AM screening last night. They were impressed. So I'm watching it soon. After my exams I think.
I hope I get to find out why the AIs keep the humans around.
Is it because the fusion reactors are unreliable and they need us as an un-interruptable power supply?
Is it because they get some kind of satisfaction from using us "like" we used them?
When I watched the first of those Matrix shorts, I thought "Ha! Robots are not people!". Am I a bigot?
The logical end to this technofear-fest is that humans and robots (silicates?) make peace. Ho hum.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!