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MSN Planning to Take on Google?
asyn42 writes "CNet is reporting what should be no surprise, Microsoft appears to be readying itself to take on Google for a position as the top search engine. The long range impact on the relationship between MSN and Yahoo/Inktomi is likely at risk."
... therefore Microsoft has now officially become the devil (it was assumed before).
Rob
Good Luck.
Google has modified all Microsoft.com links to point to SCO's website.
I'm on a chair.
Company with many diverse software offerings, including internet services, wants to be the top search engine.
It's a company, what would you expect?
The news would be if Microsoft said it didn't want to be compared to google, or any other search engines. This, as it stands, is hardly newsworthy.
--
Use Vobbo for Video Blogs
What next? Taking over the internet? Oh i forgot, they already did :/
As long as they use Windows to power the thing google doesn't have to worry about MSN being king of the hill for search engines.
That being said, if anyone can compete, it's Microsoft. They have deep pockets, but they don't always win (see UltimateTV, e.g.).
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
Trying to take on google's API..
Called MSNBot, the software scours Web sites and collects hyperlinks and documents. The software is part of MSN's effort to challenge Google by revitalizing MSN Search with its own algorithmic search technology.
You'll never beat the mind-share that Google has. No-one is gonna use MSNbot as a verb, like "I just googled for planetside tips" or create sites like googlism. Msnbotism? Hah!
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Free your mind.
Microsoft want to take on anything huge, you call this news? ;-)
Microsoft NotWork will never be able to hold a candle to Google. What a farce!
Unfortunately for Microsoft, this is one area where it will take real innovation to usurp the top player.
You can't make Windows somehow incompatible with Google to force Windows users to use Microsoft's search engine. Google will find a way around it.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Let me guess... it tells YOU what your looking for?
What does Microsoft think it has going to counter that sort of incredible power?
Yay dupes!
;-)
I should pretend I'm a Slashdot editor, and make a second post in a few hours, pointing out that this story is a dupe.
"buy everything while we can"
i have found, you can find,happiness in slavery!
Let me just get these out of the way, so we can we get on with intelligent discussion...
MS sucks.
Google rules.
Feel no further need to repeat these mantras in this thread.
that should make searching for why my computer just BSODed that much easier.
One Can Never Own Enough Musical Instruments...
john
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights
Phrase searches still produce erroneous results at Google. All MSN has to do is make a search engine that produces accurate (and thus relevant) results.
yeah right - good one
In February, Microsoft extended its license with Inktomi through December 2005, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The filing added that MSN contributed $5.6 million in revenue to Inktomi during the December 2002 quarter. About $5.1 million of that revenue was through paid inclusion and $500,000 was through licensing fees. Sounds like there relationship is good for at least another 2 years.
I'm ekrout. I'm a girl. Read my journal
How many people actually use MSN as the default search engine?
Be interesting to see how MS goes about knocking someone out top spot, rather then just crushing the little guy.
Once Microsoft bought the government, buying Google was the next logical step.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
a typical example of microsoft having so much money that they don't know where to spend it first... And in a bizarre result, they tend to spend it on the thoughest oponents !
Google is good and popular technology, very unlikely they can improve on it, yet they will throw millions at it just *because* it's a 'monopoly'. Very much like the XBox being the dead-end answer to the PS2.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
First we take Google, then we take over the world!
Microsoft can index this
[insert disgusting suggestive action here]
An algorithmic search engine. Ooh! Aah! That sounds like some kind of magic word. Microsoft is bound to take google down with that! /sarcasm
...especially if their search engine run on a windows OS, remember the trouble they had when they tried to change hotmail servers to Windows, and now imagine hundreds of PC running windows trying to cooperate to access a petabyte database... impossible, or their server will have to run a flavor of unix instead of Windows. also MSN is more like a portal, with ads, banners, flashing things, etc, but I guess it should work for teens that spent 14 hours a day chatting on MSNM
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Unless they:
(a) are as fast as google (yea, right)
(b) are as clean as google -- no graphic ads, only small text ads (again, yea right)
(c) Take the same strong anti-censorship stands that Google has taken (big yea right here)
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
what i think is really interesting here is what will happen to the new functionality.
presumably, it'll be part of MSN. so who are they after, really?
the tech savvy don't use MSN. the tech ignorant use AOL. so who are they going for? it makes me nervous when ballmer & co set their sites on something and i don't understand the reasoning behind it.
it can't just be about longhorn search capabilities, can it?
ed
search engine let them win, but for now NOTHING comes close to google, hell I do google searches and come up with references to M$'s sites faster than I can search the MSDN or TechNET. When looking for HP/Compaq spare parts it is MUCH faster to google the numbers and find a 3rd party vendor that links to the source from HP/CPQ than it is to search their very poorly organised conglomeration of a site. M$'s site will return an unknown error message or unknown Qarticle, when google will have cached the pages already.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
i am sure they don't mean that ignorant attempt to redirect a client to "their" search listing when your URL doesnt match up correctly....
dominant browser doesn't equal to a kick ass search engine
stop bothering us MS....
Just for kicks, go to MSN's front page and search for Linux. If that's any indication of what their new search engine is going to be like, I'm sure we can rely on it to be a completely accurate and unbiased source of information.
Microsoft, the software giant, announced today that it was poised to take on God, Creator of the Heavenâ(TM)s and Earth.
âoeI think we are ready for this,â said Bill Gates, who plans on renaming himself âoeThe Gatesâ. âoeGod has had his time running the universe, now itâ(TM)s my, err, our turn.â
Microsoft would not comment on future plans if they do indeed beat God out as ruler of the heavens, but did say they plan on charging a license fee for living.
God was unavailable for comment, but was heard laughing very loudly.
Film at eleven.
And then my thoughts turned to Playboy centerfold Diana Lee and...what was that again about Google?
The only thing that interests me on that posting is: how the hell did that user get a karma-bonus of +1?
When will providers learn that many consumers just donâ(TM)t care about amazing search algorithms if they are getting the results they want from their current provider â" which most of them are. For godâ(TM)s sake, according to some lexicographers, âoegoogleâ is now an English verb; people swear by google like they swear by no other service on the web, for its extreme conciseness especially. How a company such as MS, so commited to bubblfying (i.e. making all pretty, I can invent verbs too) user interfaces and providing extra services en masse expects to gain real standing in a market full of users accustomed and devoted to minimalism, just by introducing some new-fangled algorithm, I donâ(TM)t know. They should take the lesson of the mass movement from Yahoo and like services, and stay out of the market unless theyâ(TM)re willing to truly separate their extras and over-the-top advertising, which I highly doubtâ¦
Google is probably the highest profile business built around Linux technology (link). They are probably already sweating over the potential impact of an undesirable outcome in the SCO case. There won't be a better time for Microsoft to strike.
This adds creedance to the theory that the whole SCO fiasco is being orchestrated by Redmond.
Boromir, son of Faramir, King of Gondor and Minas Tirith
Well, for once MS has finally gotten in WAY over their own head, at least they have if the text of this article is anywhere near accurate. However, if they are simply trying to increase the amount of relevant searches for msn users, then this will have no impact on google whatsoever. Personally, I have found that which search engine people use over a different engine is usually pretty centric to the person making the decision. I know plenty of people who turn their nose at google(and I have repeatedly smacked them in the back of the for it, too) in favor of Meta-Crawler(which refs. google, btw). So if they do it fine, but i don't see google going anywhere in my lifetime unless the internet itself goes away.
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
But I don't think that at least for me it will ever replace it. Microsoft has the tendency to overload with information on a page...check out msn.com to see what I mean. While some might like that, I view it as a distraction. Everyone says on here that a major point of Google's appeal is that it's lean - very unobtrusive graphics and ads, and I agree. I don't think Microsoft will replicate that without looking like a ripoff.
I would definitely keep my eye on it, though. Microsoft can prove to be innovative sometimes...and competition is always a good thing. I'm rooting for Google in the meantime.
While I certainly don't think Microsoft will be able to compete with Google for another couple of years (if at all), it should be interesting to see how the open up the search service to developers via web services and the such. Google's done it, but really only for personal use. And even that is restricted to ~1000 uses per day if I recall correctly.
Of course, knowing Microsoft you'll need to pay them $10000 in addition to having a PassPort service (another $15,000).
Time to check my logs to see if MSNBot has been by...
Can you see Microsoft showing this level of restraint?
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
User-agent: MSNBot /
Disallow:
Time to add this:
User-agent: MSNBot
Disallow: /
The cake is a pie
Here's some more history about Microsoft's (MSN's) searching capability.
I like people.
Apparently msnbot.com has been owned by Go Daddy Software since April of 2002, according to the WHOIS entry. Maybe they knew something we didn't?
I'm sure when MS sues Go Daddy Software over this, it will show up here on /.
If Microsoft implements websites to promote 'Anti-Google' searchability justify their own engine, can we expect a 'Bork' edition of Google?
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
-- "I know that this is vitriol, no solution, spleen-venting, but I feel better having screamed, don't you ?"
Previous article
MSN is always going to be bloated; there's no way it will ever match up to Google's ultra-slim, yet high-quality engine.
Microsoft appears to be readying itself to take on Google for a position as the top search engine.
Why not try getting the X-Box out of the red before taking on something with such an ingrained use that it's a verb?
Why doesn't Microsoft just get over it, and recreate the internet in it's image, put out a windows update that automatically directs everyone there, and be done with it.
http://use.perl.org
MSN, as it turns out, is not the only newly announced pretender to Google's throne. Yahoo!, following its purchase of search engine Inktomi, recently said it would try to take back its early reputation as the Web's best search provider. And Overture's recent acquisition of the first really good Web search utility, AltaVista, gave indication that its hat is in the ring, too.
This is a lot of strange bedfellows. Google has been Yahoo's search provider, and Inktomi has been a longtime Microsoft provider. The musical chairs reinforce the notion that the act of searching isn't the key value of a search engine anymore.
I dunno, with those crappy search results when your URL doesn't come up in IE...I'm sure there going to count those when talking about "# of queries" in a search engine pissing contest. Maybe they'll add it to their 404-replacement screen. That way you'll be helping MSNBots' query count whether you like it or not.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
I understand why msn would want to be the number one search engine but, not to start a flame war or anything, I just don't see what msn could possibly offer that google doesn't already oiffer, execpt possibly passport.
The whole point of google is that it is incredibly simple and it gets great results from queries. The incredibly simple part is something I don't imagine msn's competitor will have on the account of.. well just look at it, and again.
So, why would one choose msn over google unless it offers some sort of advantage (intigration with the next distribution of windows possiblly)?
Life is offtopic.
This quote from the article raised a few red flags in my mind though:
Seriously, does anyone else see future security holes in this? Because I sure as hell do. Think of a misconfigured Longhorn box, open to the net, letting ANYONE browse through their entire computer. Think those Quicken docs are safe? How about your stored emails? Not that you can't already find this stuff on KaZaa et. al, but I see a more widespread problem here.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for SEGA. ..."
This reminds me of this Slashdot article from a while ago. Nothing really new...
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
Pretty easily, actually... 1. Kharma-whore by posting anti-MPAA, RIAA, and Micro$oft drivel. 2. ??? 3. Profit!
Who had a Microsoft rep in the office proposing the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars.
So my friend said "All right - let's have a test. I'm going to have Google look for this search string that deals with Microsoft technical information - and I'll have the Microsoft technical page do the same thing. And we'll see who has the most accurate and fastest results."
"But - but that's not a fair contest!" the Microsoft rep told him.
"No," my friend said, "It's not, because Google just returned the results for its entire current storage of the Internet, and the Micorosft Technet search engine is...still looking."
Should Google be worried? Naturally - always be paranoid about competition. The best thing it can do is keep going to businesses and say "What do you need to look up?" and figure out how to make their system work for them. "You want to search emails super fast? You have tons of documents you need to search through?"
To be honest, Microsoft has not succeeded very well outside the operating systems - look at handhelds, cable access - MSNBC is doing all right, but I attribute that to the NBC rather than the MS part of it.
Google has a lot of brand name, it has proven, cheap, realiable technology that is getting better. As long as they keep that edge, keep pushing the envelope, keep talking to businesses/consumers and find out what they want and deliver on it, MS will be left with YAMSP (Yet Another Money Sucking Project).
Of course, I could be wrong. But based on my Safari and Mozilla browser searching Google and my non-Geek wife actually using the words "I'll just Google that later", I'm not too worried.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I'm a diehard Google user and have been pretty much since they came on-line. If I can't find it there, I'm not sure it even exists on-line. Slashdot covered this back in April of this year, so it does look like they are going to try to have a go at it.
I will admit though, if they can provide as good or better search capability than Google, even though I hate to admit it, I'd use it too.
But I doubt they would ever have as simplistic a user interface / ease of use as Google.
When I search for Linux howtos, I don't want all of the links pointing me to anti-Linux FUD or Microsoft ads. Smart-tags, anyone?
If you think UltimateTV is dead, then you're a fool. Microsoft never abandons a product, they just shelve it for a little while, put a new face and name on it and ship it again... if it fails again, repeat... or leverage it down everyone's throats on the back of another technology/component.
How else can they get searches for "quality innovative software" to come up with microsoft.com ?
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Microsoft Search Engine Searches YOU!
:(
oh, wait, this is really true
Sigs are dangerous coy things
This is probably making headlines now because the MSNBot (More Info Here) has finally shown up across the Internet and not in its previous test capacity.
MSN has tried this before and failed. It seems Microsoft isn't going to let it happen again though. They seem to be putting a lot of time, money, and research into it.
I can attest that the bot itself has made significant improvements as of late because I no longer gets hung up in my dynamically generated pages.
And don't forget about Google's API which works with several programing languages and gives the developer a lot of functionality.
.NET only feature.
I bet that MS would not offer that, or maybe a
Google is more than just a search engine.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
desÂpotÂism -- n.
No surprise there.
One more reason to keep an eye on your money.
I also notice that www.msnbot.co.uk is available to be registered. Anybody fancy buying it and redirecting it to www.google.co.uk?
There was a story a few days ago about distributed computing and search engines... Ahh... here it is. You don't suppose that Microsoft hopes to make use of DC software in the updated Messenger client to index pages?
Maybe default Apache configurations should disallow MS bots, so that MSN can't find anything?
Turnabout is fair play? No?
This is my sig.
"It's a company, what would you expect?"
It's a virus, what do you expect?
It's Godzilla, what do you expect?
It's a mass murderer, what do you expect?
It's a guy wearing a dress, what do you expect?
Glad it's all OK with you.
Google is not a selectable default search engine in IE already. The only way to effectively make Google your search page in IE is to make it your homepage.
Oh no! Is the XBox2 going to include Microsoft Bob as well?
I read the internet for the articles.
I remember playing with msn's search a while ago and it comes back with some funny results. Why is the 3rd result for a search on "Linux" titled "Alternatives to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP" from www.microsoft.com?
Pardon my flagrant opnionation here, but I envision the following:
MS Coder: Boss, we've got a problem.
MS Boss: What is it?
MS Coder: It turns out you can't trust the "keywords" meta-tag.
MS Boss: What?!?
MS Coder: Seriously. Some unscrupulous people abuse it.
MS Boss: Crap. Now what?
MS Coder: Well, it seems we're going to have to come up with a smarter algorithm than "index by keyword metatag".
MS Boss: But Google didn't have to write any fancy software.
MS Coder: Actually, we're now operating on the theory that Google does in fact have some fairly advanced software.
MS Boss: Advanced?!? You mean like technically advanced?
MS Coder: Yeah, it looks that way.
MS Boss: But we don't write our own technically advanced software - we wrap mediocre implementations of Unix technology in Macintosh user friendliness.
MS Coder: I know - it's a bit of a problem.
MS Boss: Pity we can't "partner" with them.
MS Coder: Yeah, like Stac, Java, and that smartphone company.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
What does Microsoft think it has going to counter that sort of incredible power?
Just playing devil's advocate (you did ask) but presuming they can get search accuracy within spitting distance of Google, their big advantage is Windows and Internet Explorer. (Yes I know, illegal bundling, monopoly, yadda, yadda... Who here thinks MS won't tie something into Windows if they can?) They could tie all sorts of interesting search functions into Windows and Office. Why fire up the web browser if you can search without it?
I agree that it's unlikely MS will supplant Google but never underestimate a monopoly with $40+billion in the bank. Most people get to Google through Microsoft software. That's a perfect opportunity for MS to put itself in the middle. Not easy but definitely possible.
The new WinFS (WinFS is not a file system), and one or two additions, they may claim a distributed database search. They can read your email and everyting else on your computer, what does Google have to beat that? Like everything else M$, it won't really work but they will praise it with billions of dollars worth of adverts, product review and astroturfing. They will also step up efforts to poison Google, an effort as likely to work as their Linux virus efforts have.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
they stop returning good results.
That's the only reason that I use it. If MS can create a better search engine then Google, that finds better pages with less thinking (less words and tweaking of searches).
The only problem I have with a search engine is when I go to it and have to try like 10 searches to get what I want, when I can goto Google and get it in 2.
However, they had better start from scratch because all their previous search engines are really bad. The MSDN one being the worst. Maybe there is a way to have it return better results, but I haven't found it. I want it to be easier to narrow down my choices for APIs. I mean why is a MSCE API ranked higher then a Win32 api call on their results pages? Are there really more users of the WinCE api?
This will be good only if we see some new innovation but honestly I do not see how I would leave google. I just get too much use from it.
Odds are though that MS tactic will be to buy Google or some other "innovative" idea. :/
I have been kinda frustrated with google since they blew away their competition a couple years back. I feel like their search quality has dropped significantly, and more competition is a good thing, IMO. Even if its from Microsoft.
I find the general tone of MSNBC very interesting when compared with Fox and CNN, for example. But I still get most of my news from various indi websites.
Get up.
Bathe.
Internet Explorer.
google.com
xxx
Hey! WTF... Must be an IE trick.
"MSN did not find any matches for 'xxx'. Perhaps you were looking for 'Linux'?"
In other news, Opera releases yet another "Bork" edition to circumvent IE's avoidance of Google searches. Folks at Mozilla were not available for comment as they were busy re-inventing the wheel.
The only time I ever seem to use the MSN search is when I enter a URL into IE that it doesn't recognize (i.e. just about anything that doesn't either end in .com or start www).
Then it invariably brings up an MSN search page with, surprise!, my url right at the top. Hell, using that method they could become the leaders in much the same way that the MSN homepage is one of the most visited one on the internet (because so many users don't bother to change the default one loaded every time you open a new browser window).
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
1. Acquire a large EMP device.
2. Park large EMP device outside of Google headquarters.
3. Detonate large EMP device.
4. Profit!
or something along those lines...I can't think of any other way they'll get ahead of google...
(also notice, that the usual missing step 3 is included in this exercise for your viewing pleasure)
Now they're trying to integrate their search engine into the OS? Well if they do MSN's search service will eventually rise to #1 regardless of how poor the quality of it is (It's working for IE). Because most people will just use Windows' search function, and a smaller portion will be aware of that as
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
If someone told me they were going to google something I'd slap them upside their stupid little noggin. "Search" is the word you're *ahem* googling for people. See? That's stupid isn't it?
The cutesifying of language is reprehensible. Nobody I know says their going to google unless they mean that they're typing "www.google.com" in their address bar at that very moment. Real people perform google searches.
A quick google on this topic (search term: microsoft google slashdot) would have shown that this story is a repeat.
The other thing to note is that MSN does not have an "I'm Feeling Lucky" button, but it does have an annoyingly fugly butterfly. I think the last two items will be the determining factor in the Search Wars.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
...then they will fail miserably.
:)
Half the time, I get JScript 'Out of Memory' errors or NO results from my searches...
Long live Google!
Had the same problem at both work DNS servers, as well. Only router-blocked port 53 from that /16, tho. Execs and stuff need to get to some of the sites in there :(.
(I know, replying to your own posts is lame. Sorry, deal.)
The registry key that has this (on 2k) is: \HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search . There are 2 keys here - Customize Search & Search Assistant. Both of them point to http://ie.search.msn.com/...
Now, I can't find the address you're supposed to change the references "to" (as in, at google), but that's where to change it "from".
I am dyslexia of borg - your ass will be laminated.
They try to control what you read and hear via NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, Newsweek, and Slate. They go after what does and doesn't exist on the WWW by setting up MSN, Expedia, Encarta, Carpoint, etc. They try to control personal communication through Hotmail. They control what software you use via Windows and their aquire-and-crush tactics. Controlling their customers' search results is simply the next logical thing to do.
There is competition, right now, but that is no guarantee of competition in the future.
In other markets and industries, people have clearly stated they don't want one company controlling their whole life. Why is it so damn difficult to do the same thing with computers and software???
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Search: [browser ]
"Browser" returns the following link:
Internet Explorer Website.
Search:: [mozilla ]
"Mozilla" returns the following link:
Internet Explorer Website.
Search:: [OpenOffice.Org ]
"OpenOffice.org" returns the following link:
Microsoft Office Website.
Search:: [quicktime]
"quicktime" returns the following link:
Microsoft Windows Website.
Search:: [Apple computer]
"Apple computer" returns the following link:
Microsoft Windows Website.
Etc. You get the idea...
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
...the M$Nbot will index pages that have "100% Microsoft-Free Site" badges on every page? :-)
Honestly, this isn't such a bad thing. I use Google as my main search engine as do most geeks, but even after preaching the virtues of Google for years, my 24 year-old sister *insists* on using MSN Search, as she "finds it easier to access and use MSN Search" for some God forsaken reason. I guess because it's just easier to hit the "Search" button on IE's toolbar than it is to go to Favorites and click on Google.
In any case, if my sister is an example of the standard non-geek masses, getting people to switch from using MSN to Google is difficult at best. If MSN can become more handy and more useful than it currently is, where's the harm in that? It might give Google some competition, which is always good, and increase the productivity of searching the Internet for "the unwashed masses."
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
MSN Planning to Take on Google?
SCO Planning to Take on IBM?
That's right, it's not just MSN anymore it's Google-FullSpeed!
Hi, my name is "Bob". I am from Microsoft. You may not know me that well, but I'm your friend. I'll make computing easier for you by turning it into an animated storybook interface. ... err ... gather dust.
Want to be my friend?
Oh, you don't?
Here, I'll just go sit on this shelf and
Hats off, Trollbridge
Google, as eBay, and Coke, will forever be the top unless bought out and renamed. Just as many doomsayers say Apple will never be on top. I can say this, it will never cease as a brand. Not only due to the pure popularity of the name but to the way it rolls on the tongue. There's also the thing about brand loyalty thrown into the mix.
I made sure my name for my business was recognizable and easy to remember.
So to dispute Microsoft's attempt, while it may be a very good search engine, it now, at this stage in the game, has very little potential to EVER be as recognizable as Google.
Can someone please point to where the new unabridged dictionary may contain the word "google"?
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
The first thing that attracted me to Google, even before witnessing the quality of the search algorithm, was the sheer bareness of their main page. I heartily applaud any website that keeps their main page under 15Kb. Even more important, I applaud any website that values the goals of the users so much that their main page is essentially a single function with no fluff. I also applaud any website that maintains a zero ad banner and popup rule.
MS will never be able to compete with this. I would be very surprised if their main page will weigh in under 75Kb. It will be 90% fluff. And there will be ads all over it!
Google wins.
.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
Um, it's already in Windows XP. Just click Start then Search. MSN is the default site (as expected, why would it not be?) but with two clicks you can change the default search site to Google, or a number of other search sites.
I think I'll stop here.
MSNBotulism.
or change the default to something other than Microsuck.
[sarcasm]
It's actually quite simple: [/sarcasm]
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
How bout if all the geeks out there configured their apache servers to block the MSNbot. Sure this may be self defeating in that you lose mind-share among the users who will only use MSNsearch, but at the same time, most users will not switch from google if the alternative doesn't get them what they want.
I guess the only flaw is if they force their search on all new users or those who can't realize that there are other alternatives to searching, those users are lost viewers to web sites who take this approach.
Microsoft uses the followinf tactics to rule the searching world.
1. Businesses can pay a premium to be ranked higher.
2. Preference is given to MS friendly/exclusive web pages.
3. Passport required searches for Adult Material or Copyright Enfringing materials including DIVx, MP3s and pirated software.
4. Microsoft gives $10 for every MSN search for an entire hour or even day.
5. Total Microsoft World Domination.
- Kill Yourself, spare us all! -
MSN bots? Am I the only one thinking of the Sentinals from the Matrix at this point?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Win2k maybe, but Notepad can't compare to some of the free alternatives, like Metapad.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Seeing that Microsoft is taking over everything,
I wonder what Microsoft Porn will be like. I'm a little scared of the idea.
1. set up a site where we can log IP addresses that come from Microsoft's search bots. 2. Then we disallow these IP's and bots from indexing our sites at work and home 3. continue telling everyone that google is better than MSNbiteMe 4. upgrade Linux so that embraces and extends the ideas behind longhorn 5. integrate google into Linux If this fails we can sue MS for stealing our bandwith by indexing our web sites.
i have actually used the msn search, and i couldnt stand it, it pulled in results that had nothing to do with what i searched for, it was a joke.
We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully "designed" to have come into existence by chance.
"linux" search on MSN; top site goes to Amazon, next two go to Microsoft.
"linux" search on Google; no microsoft links on the front page.
Bottomline: MSFT is not a credible source of information. I don't think that I'm the only one that thinks so.
--
$tar -xvf
...I use Google always as my primary search engine, but from the view of someone who runs a few websites, I often see better results to my sites from MSN due to the over-abundance of webs pages in Google, which may top me (legitimately better or not...people can still improve their ranks by sneaky means). Certain searches on MSN for related keywords to my site may have me in the top 5, while the same search on Google may not even have me in the Top 15 or 20.
Although that also goes to the pro side of Google, there's an over-abundance of information which 99 times out of 100 gives you what you're looking for.
This should be quick.
The next release of MSN and of Windows will have a "special" DNS lookup for Google.
[Paraphrasing] No, you didn't really want to go there today!
"Provided by the management for your protection."
... when they own the browser, that's a lot of leverage towards capturing the search engine. And what do you want to bet that once they've run Google into the ground, their search engine won't work if you're using Mozilla, Safari, Opera, etc?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
It will be another example of them leveraging their monopoly power
I wish people knew that Microsoft doesn't technically have a monopoly. By definition, a monopoly must have 100% market share (in effect there are no alternatives). Microsoft is guilty of unfair business practices, but does not have a monopoly. Just more old news, though.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A lot of posts are arguing that Google is too well-entrenched, too effective and too smart to ever fail. Consider these points.
1) Google is entrenched. Yes, "google" has become synonymous with "internet search." But does that really mean people would never use anything else? Just because your mom uses "google" as a verb does not necessarily mean that she's a big fan of Google. More likely, she's just using the search engine, and its name, because everyone else does.
Don't assume that the non-geek masses would make any fuss about "googling" something through a different search engine. After all, most of us call facial tissues "kleenex" regardless of the manufacturer. Hell, in some parts of America, people refer to all pop (soda) as "Coke."
2) Google is effective. Sure, it's effective. But is the effectiveness really so great that no one else can come up with a substitute which is adequate, at least for the average user? Be honest, Google-fans, when was the last time you even used another search engine? Do people continue to praise Google's effectiveness on the basis of actual comparisons, or simply because "Google = best search engine" has become conventional wisdom? (And I don't believe that would be enough to protect Google, either, given that "google" has become generic enough that a lot of people might think they are "googling" regardless of which search engine they use. Think about how many people believe that their web browser is "AOL.")
I wonder how much of Google's popularity is actually due to its lack of visual clutter. The spartan layout is nice on its own merits, but because it presents information in a clean, efficient manner, I suspect that people are also more willing to believe that the results are efficient as well. If Microsoft can make a search function that is built into Windows, it could challenge Google's transparency and no-brainer ease of use.
3) Google is smart. The people at Google are clever, but I'm not sure anyone is too smart to make a critical mistake that Microsoft can take advantage of. After all, Microsoft has ready access to the vast majority of computer desktops, and many billions of dollars in cash that they are willing to spend in order to buy dominance in new markets.
Google isn't infallible. Remember the usenet fiasco? They angered a lot of people with that. Most of whom have forgiven and forgotten since, but odds are good that at some point, Google will make another big mistake. Or perhaps just a series of small ones. In any event, Microsoft can afford to wait for that to happen, and has a lot of experience in taking advantage of rivals' slip-ups.
I read something here on
If they didn't have user strings, how did you know they were from MS?
[o]_O
I find the Google Toolbar to be quite a usefull little add-on to IE. Any time I want to search, it's there. Plus, it has the ability to highlight the search terms on the webpage. In addition, clicking on the search term highlight moves you from one occurence of the search term to the next one on the page.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Hey,if MS can come up with a search engine that works better, IE: faster and comes up with more on target hits (with no bias against anything that competes with MS) I'll use it. I switched from altavista to google for that reason.
MSN search bots definetly are hostile to the internet.
On my server, I had this experimental php script that just prints new lines in a loop forever.
Well, a brilliant bot from MS address space (it didn't identyfy itself as anything else than IE) didn't read the robots.txt (which denies everything) and found its way to the script. When I later started wondering what was jamming my ADSL, I realized that the bot had hammered the script a bit over hundred times, each time timing out after downloading about ten megs...
signatures pending - ansa@kos.to - (dont mail there)
if they really wanted to.... (3 Billion dollars?)
Simpson's come to mind: -Buy'em out, boys!
You can't handle the truth.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
" The long range impact on the relationship between MSN and Yahoo/Inktomi is likely at risk."
Now I know I'm nagging (blame it on the time of month or the weather or something) but I read this sentence three times and I still don't get it.
What is at risk? what is the impact?
*confused*
-- No Sig is a Good Sig
Clippy: You seem to be getting your ass fragged. What would you like to do?
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
AC to avoid karma whoring.
Bork
language tools
I am still waiting for google to come out with the geek matchmaker site.... oogle.google.com
Microsoft announced late yesterday that they would add the loveable 'clippy' paperclip help tool to there web search engine. Starting with a campaign with clippy kicking the butterfly things ass.
Compaq's (then called DEC) search engine called Alta Vista was king of the hill in its time. It was fairly comprehensive and gave some reasonable rankings. But DEC couldnt turn it into a decent business, and better algorithms like google came along. History could repeat itself again.
bring up the people who pay the highest price and that is it. The only algorythm they will use is the checkbook. I can not see anyone seriously using it and being able to trust the output. All the news stories that it pulls up will be MSNBC so they will all be slanted. I can not foresee any competition for google from Microsoft.
3. Alternatives to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP Learn about the Microsoft alternatives and how to move to them from open source products. www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/migration
Google's corporate ethic is diametrically opposed to Microsofts.
Therefore, Microsoft's corporate ethic will ALWAYS prevent a Microsoft Search Engine from producing reliable (ie. uncommercially biased) results.
Google's refusal to bias it's rankings based on ad revenue is it's strenght, and the very reason it become so popular, it decimated all competition. No matter how good your technology may be - if you poison your results with commercial bias, there will be roughly ZERO demand for that search service. Even if Microsoft leverages their monopoly to try to cram it down people's throats, it will still fail. Nobody wants another spam factory disguised as a search engine.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
While everyone is keeping a close eye on microsoft, Verisign seems to be gobbling up quite a share of internet related technologies.
All these replies, and I didn't see anybody mention, "What if it works better?"
Well, what if it works better? Would you switch? I would, in a heart beat. Yes, I have a growing dislike for MS, I'm a linux geek, which is why I know the golden rule; "Use the right tool for the right job" and if MS can do it better than google, then guess what, they are the better tool
The long range impact on the relationship between MSN and Yahoo/Inktomi is likely at risk.
Wouldn't want to risk the long-range impact.
Last post!
You're right ... no matter what new venture they go into they will never be the most recognized - only being recognized for being Microsoft, there brand to "market" ... if they integrate "a google clone" though, it could quickly become "what's most often used"
Google is dead. Microsoft's nefarious plot is to use YOUR Windows box as an arm of the MSN search engine. Every night the cache of all the places you visit will be uploaded to the MSN search engine for indexing. I'm sure it's buried in the EULA somewhere...
I've been using konqueror pretty much exclusively for the last few months... it's great.
A few more complex sites dont work and the odd site doesn't let you in until you fake the user agent, but it's come on leaps and bounds since 2.0.
Google has been expecting this for a long time and are prepared for it. MS is the only company that has been considered a serious threat, at least for the last year. They've got the name recognition, browser control and financial resources to do it. But do they have the right technical people? Are they committed to buying their way in no matter the cost? How about overcoming some very ingrained company traits and playing fair?
Then there's the Google motto of "don't be evil" to contend with. Part of Google's success, I believe, is due to not being evil, and more than that, to being good. That covers things like clearly marking ads, keeping their home page simple (I wouldn't use it as my browser home page if it wasn't) and not accepting payments for rank improvement.
There are a lot of very smart people at Google and my sources say the management is very shrewd and realistic. I'll bet they weather this storm. The drubbing of Netscape was, I think, an easier thing to do. Google already gives away their service for free, and they've got immense mindshare. Netscape had good name recognition at the time, but back then there was a flood of new users that didn't know anything about the net. That was also at a time when there wasn't so much anti-Microsoft sentiment out there (yes, even the general public has had a taste of it due to the court cases).
Wow, I just about convinced myself to submit my resume!
Instead of MS branching out to put it's name in other areas of computing, such as search engines, and gaming consoles, etc, etc.
:-)
Maybe they should focus their resources on getting something right. For instance, instead of making "MSNbot" use those programmers, and those minds to improve Windows, or create a better server OS.
Spreading resources leaves a company weak and too spread out, I know this is most likely not going to happen with MS, but I can hope
Error 407 - No creative sig found
why does the thought of 'bots originating from MS' bring to mind the sentinels from The Matrix?
Bill will figure out a way to own you.
You will be assimilated.
I just did a search on msn for "linux", like someone here suggested.
The first non-paid for result was "below the fold" of my window. I have to scroll if I want to even see past the ads.
If I want an ad engine, I'll go visit double-click. Nothing wrong with some ads...but mostly true non paid for results are what it's all about. It should not be a chore to see past the ads.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
MS can't leverage thier monopoly.
Just fire a lawsuit accross the bow.
So now does that mean that my Google Toolbar will return results from MSN
Microsoft can't very well package their OS with a Google-less copy of the Internet (er, well, don't quote me on that). And if they do some contortionist act to make Google hard to access, they'll have seriously crippled their own software. All that would accomplish is to hasten the day of the bloated monster's final belch.
Hey, It's June 19th. You have a few months to wait for publishing "news" like this.
http://www.etplanet.com/windows/longhorn/ Could it get any more integrated than having a search bar on the taskbar? This searchbar will search files on your computer, phonebooks... and "the internet" (read: MSN search)
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Here's a Googlism for Linux: Googlism for: linux linux is for bitches linux is a free premium linux operating system linux is going down linux is easy linux is top threat linux is served linux is closing in on unix linux is obsolete linux is not for you lg #46 linux is better here lg #45 linux is giving microsoft a linux is picking up some big buddies linux is right for you? linux is the future linux is as strategic as windows linux is out of this world linux is not free linux is their biggest linux is succeeding linux is less expensive than windows linux is on the move linux is ready to party linux is a threat to nt linux is like a chinese peasant uprising linux is freedom endeavor linux is not immune linux is not a thing of linux is not unix linux is looking good linux is for losers linux is all we need linux is for you linux is a premium linux linux is not red hat linux is here to stay linux is reaching a critical turning point as the microsoft saga linux is released linux is for real linux is dead linux isn't the problem linux is a premium linux os linux is not on the desktop linux is going down by michelle delio linux is a completely free piece of software started by linus torvalds and supported by thousands of programmers worldwide linux is one of the most important strategic platforms for fujitsu linux is communism by linux is a cancer" by thomas c greene in washington posted linux is not in the public domain linux is top threat to windows january 10 linux is served it was the freedom linux is the kernel linux is a registered trademark of linus torvalds linux is not for you linux is better here linux is obsolete date linux is just like rap music linux is a clone of the operating system unix linux is giving microsoft a migraine linux is picking up some big buddies now that the upstart operating system has ibm's blessing linux is an operating system linux is the os of the future in telecom" linux is open source linux is here to stay as a viable technology linux is as strategic as windows lisa dicarlo linux is a remarkably complete operating system linux is here linux is frozen posted under general by chuck mead on friday august 16 2002 @ 01 linux is definitely not for small businesses linux is not free on linux vs microsoft linux is a healer in medical industry linux is their biggest threats linux is succeeding gary burt linux is 2002's "best linux distribution" linux is too much linux is free like a puppy linux is a securable operating system linux is unproven? linux is ready to party by mary jo foley special to cnet news linux is a threat to nt halloween document the latest and most telling of a number of linux linux is like a chinese peasant uprising when the oppressed recognize their suffering linux is being promoted by ibm linux is not immune to iloveyou linux is better than windows because linux is based on kondara linux linux is everywhere linux is not powering oracle databases yet linux is in the forecast for weather linux is not seen as a threat to the work the bsa is doing linux is not a thing of value linux is looking good michael dell's keynote at linuxworld underscores how mainstream computer companies are joining the pure linux is cool linux is scientific linux is just another one of those 'pc things' linux is for losers kerrie murphy linux is linux is that it best suits for the things i do with my computer linux is obsolete" linux is een besturingssysteem linux is not red hat jun 5 linux is reaching a critical turning point as the microsoft saga continues to unfold if you talk privately with representatives from isvs linux is a freely linux is not gnu/linux linux is here and here to stay linux is expected to have a powerful impact in helping to increase the quality of government while also providing mandrakesoft an linux is consistent with sun's computing vision of employing open standards and nonproprietary interfaces to develop products and services that address the linux is a great operating system linux is not gnu/linux linux is a free premium linux operating system linux is right for you? linux
Should computers be able to parse the phrase "police police police police"?
Safari->Block Pop-up Windows
or
cmd-K
This is funny, as we all know that MSN's new competitive search engine will likely only work with IE with Active X controls enable. AHAHAHA.
LeX
MSN Search is already integrated into Windows. You can get to it from several places in Explorer, and Internet Explorer. And if IE can't find a page, it offers to find a similar page on MSN Search. And yet, people still type www.google.com in the address bar, to get to a better search engine.
What, exactly, are they going to change?
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
One lovely facet of Google is their sheer abhorrence of advertisements. Just a nice clean interface. Somehow, I just don't see M$ coming up w/ something of that caliber. Even if they divine a more superior search engine, I'd still pick Google over it anyday for the lack of advertisements.
"Embrace the whitespace!"
-jc
Here is what will stop them - Google can and does keep up with the times, updating their engine. Even if MS had the competing technology today, they would have to get it integrated into the OS/Browser. It won't happen with the OS, people don't upgrade that often, and it takes MS a long time to come out with a new version. IE may be a better candidate, but everyone doesn't upgrade their browser very often. (mass majority)
How they would be able to compete is to change what is already integrated, like if they updated MSN. (which is probably what they are doing). So further integration into the OS won't help them, it will become outdated very quickly.
And if they try to take on Google in the centrally located search engine, they can't do it. MS cannot innovate as fast as Google, period.
That being said, Google won't last forever. I remember several other "kings" of the search engine - Yahoo, AltaVisa, NorthernLight, etc etc. Google has held on for a long time though, because they innovate. I think the only was MS could beat them would be to buy them. That is their MO anyway.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Competition is a good thing, and I hope that MSN makes a nice offering. If its good, I'd use it, but only so long as it works in my browser.
MSN MoneyCentral has the best free stock screener, bar none, of any on the internet. You wouldn't know it if you don't use IE though, because the link to the deluxe screener doesn't even show up in other browsers.
Yea, had this happen on my server when a user's site in ~/public_html accidently turned into a bot tar pit (each link to a new directory just put you back in the main page, but increased the directory depth). It was amusing until I realized that the fact my server was pegged at 100-200k/s instead of it's normal 10 or 20 was really going to suck when the bandwidth bill came. Turned out it was an inktomi bot (or rather, about 60 of them) who didn't know when to stop, even with the web server turned off.
Eventually I moved the public_html directory out and it *still* took about three hours for the bots to understand that 404's meant there was no file there to look at.
Some script kiddie wanna be should just write a virus that changes all of the registry entries in Windows to make google the default search page, instead of MSN.
is your friend, use it wisely.
Competition between MS and Google might occur. Google might improve. How terrible!
Amazing, isn't it?
http://www.google.com/microsoft.html
The MSN searches you!
(I find those soviet russia sayings waaay too funny, and now have tried my own variation. My apologies.)
-- taking over the world, we are.
Google may be broken.
My personal experience is that Google is adding new pages currently, but the pagerank is not being raised by incoming links to a site.
A fresh database is good, but irrelvant results will kill Google if this keeps up. I am worried in the short term for Google.
Rule of the open mind
People who are resistant to change cannot resist change for the worst.
And the fun part is that I used Google to find it Slashdot search sux0rz :P
uber-dorki e
uber-loser
uber-pantywaste
uber-zomb
uber-sucker
interesting. I would rather US IE then a MAJORITY of the browser out, but not all of them. I even have company people using Mozilla instead of IE. That lead to them changing the website to work fully with Mozilla.
I found that saying something like "Why do we turn away 30% of the people who want to get to our site?"
"What do you mean?"
"Well, 30% of Internet users use Netscape, and if they can't get to our website, we don't get a chance to show them what we offer. I tell you what, I'll let you try a free version and then you can decide if we should support it. Here, it will only rtake a minute."
After that, I got them.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Check out this FAQ about MSNBot:
http://search.msn.com/msnbot.htm
Some of the responses are rather disturbing.
My site was almost DOSed by bots originating from MS.
Similarly, my server has been hit with a DOS that originate at several blocks of IP addresses, only a few of them belonging to MSN. A year or so back, some of them learned how to invoke some of my cgi scripts. I have scripts that can read files from other sites and convert them to any of several output formats. These little monsters were systematically feeding my scripts URLs and converting them to all the output formats. One searcher did it from at least 100 addresses simultaneously.
I implemented a blacklist that stopped those in their tracks. And to handle latecomers, I implemented a minimum 10-sec delay (since lowered to 5 sec) between requests from an IP address. That slows them down.
But you've given me an idea. I also have a "Cookie" generator. I had a script that returned just one. Now I also have a "Cookies" generator that loops, with a new cookie every 10 sec. I think I'll put it in a few directories that robots.txt says not to search. Then I'll check occasionally to see if there are any search bots stuck in the tar pit.
Maybe I'll just let them run. They'll eventually get a rather large file, if they're archiving it.
Anyone have any other good ideas for bogging down bots that ignore robots.txt?
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
There are two ways to look at this. The first is the traditional free-hand capitalist who says the consumer can't lose. If MS manages to make something better than Google then more power to them. The consumer benefits, and no hearts break for Google (any more than hearts broke for Netscape).
On the other hand there's the old bait-and-switch technique that has happened way to often in these industries. Offer an amazing product, drive your competition out, and then capitalize on the unrestricted market access you've created. Before you count MS out for the count consider the following:
They've got money, which means they'll be able to offer services comparable to Google. They're not going to seed the results with ads or false placements at first; that's like wearing nothing but a condom on the first date. Instead, because they have other sources of revenue, they'll do exactly the opposite. NO ads, NO sponsored placement. And even without this revenue, they'll offer services that Google can't match.
To compete, Google will have to raise more money, which means more advertising or other problems. And like that, MS has forced Google's hand.
The very entry of a monster like MS into this market is cause for concern.
Yay Google will finally be gone.
Mozilla is too and you don't see it running away with the race. MSN can still easily win. Just integrate it into the OS and make it the default search engine. Every one here is talking about how much better results Google gives and how the page is so much cleaner and works so much faster.
It doesn't matter. The vast majority of people use defaults no matter what, a good portion of the rest will think "Hmm well MS is a super huge company so I'm sure what ever they make will be really good quality and be so much better than the competition". Don't count on them pick up on the search time as they'll probably attribute any difference to the internet being slow. Also sure as heck don't expect them to really notice the differing quality of search results, for one it's a completely subjective category and another you they likely won't even pay close enough attention to notice the difference. It's simple enough, integrate it into the OS, (something similar to Sherlock? been a while since I've used it), and make it the default anything on the windows box, home page too, really the average new user has no desire to change any kind of settings with their computer for the simple reason they don't really understand them. A search engine is obviously a good choice for a home page, make it your search engine and they're likely in your palm forever. Given the resources MS has and the actions they've been willing to take in the past combined with the courts unwillingness to stop them they would be fools if they didn't become #1.
I stole this Sig
Most posters here are overlooking the obvious.
As usual, this won't be a question of who as the superior technology or performance. It will be a question of which of the two (MS or Google) can force themselves upon the user first.
Obviously MS can, since it controls the computer. Most users are not technically saavy enough to choose a search engine. Most don't even understand they can type into the address bar.
When they go "onto the internet", they see MSN. MSN is the internet to them, the same way AOL has been the internet to a lot of unfortunate people over the last many years.
Of course, working against MS are the various spyware packages that help the user find things (via popups) that might not have appeared on MSN's search... chuckle.
To summarize, and no offense to non-saavy users (who won't read this anyway), but the sheep will be shepherded right thru MSN as usual.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
My 9 yr. old niece once told me she was using "Goog-lee" to lookup something for a report she was writing for school. I was so proud of her, it almost brought me to tears.
"Google has a lot of brand name, it has proven, cheap, realiable technology that is getting better. As long as they keep that edge, keep pushing the envelope, keep talking to businesses/consumers and find out what they want and deliver on it, MS will be left with YAMSP (Yet Another Money Sucking Project)."
See, that is the point that most of the tech-savvy miss. The mantra of the tech world is "make a better product and they will come." Problem is that average-joe-user does not have a clue about what is better -- and it is for this reason that Microsoft will win (as they always have -- regardless of how much better or innovative the competition is). This whole article made my heart sink. Imagine this:
CLIENT SIDE:
1) MSN search bar in IE, default search to MSN with a bad URL -- no way to change to Google
2) Search local files -- also kicks back a MSN search if nothing found -- no way to change to Google.
3) Build MSN search into Office and Outlook without any way to use Google that way.
With this, Joe average user will find it harder and harder to use Google and easier to use MSN, regardless of which is better. In addtion to this:
SERVER SIDE:
1) Build the ability for MSN robots to get metadata from the OS itself in an "undocumented" way that no one else can use with the next release of Windows (who cares if it opens security holes -- no one blames MS for security holes -- they blame "The Internet"). Think of the whole IIS/IE broken-tcp-IE-advantage thing here.
2) Make it such that IIS breaks other search engines robots
Overall it will make MSN seem better and Google seem worse in comparison. They have done all this before and they will do it again. Microsoft will win no matter how good Google is.
I invite anyone to counter my argument that average Joe user will use MSN over Google if MS makes it too tough to use Google through the desktop Monopoly.
The *really* scary part about this is that if MSN wins Microsoft will control the information that flows on the internet. Imagine all Linux-related web sites no loger getting indexed? The whole "search-for-linux-get-windows instead" points to this.
Do you mean this MSNbot?
If MSNbot becomes the name for the MSN search, maybe Microsoft should try to get that domain from the current owners. Or just sue them.
After the whole pop-up thing in IE and now this...i'm buying a mac
Maybe MS would become victor if they buyed www.alltheweb.com. It seams to search better then google. Google searchs on about 3 billion there alltheweb search on 2, but still seams to come up with more hits:
Google Alltheweb
19 mill 25 mill search "google"
0,9 mill 2,3 mill search "alltheweb"
Btw. both comes up with the respecktiv frontpage as 1. hit
But thatever. Then I finally want to search for something and want good results I allways uses Copernic cause it searchs on every search motor I know at once (except google funny egough) and got a nice way of putting them into categoris like special groups for search after "buy hardware" "book reviews" and so on.
From their explanation:
:-D
Featured Sites are links that MSN Search editors believe are likely to be particularly relevant and useful.
Note that they don't attribute relevance and usefulness to the searcher.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Like this week's PC World magazine (I'm pretty sure it was PC World) says, when your name becomes a verb, something has gone very right. Google has had things going very right for a long time, and they're not trying to take over the entire world, which gives them cool points to boot!
But seriously, as a result of this, all of their products are incredibly useful and tolerable. You won't find much anti-Google sentiment out there because the services they offer are simply useful:
And, of course, the default Google search is customizable in particular ways. A search for link:slashdot.org tells me that nearly 31,000 web sites link to Slashdot. A search for site:microsoft.com netscape tells me that "netscape" is mentioned on at least 7,800 pages at Microsoft.com.
Sorry, but I don't think Microsoft can catch up to that. And even if Microsoft could, how would such a successful web venture as Google be hurt by it? If nothing else, a little competition might *slightly* reduce Google's load, allowing for even greater expansion of services...
I wrote far too much, but I'm in class, so I had a good excuse.
People use many types of access from various ISPS to login, using computers from a wide variety of manufacturers. Most of them use Microsoft operating systems which is a danger to the whole computing world. Microsofts software is increasingly unstable, bloated and generally low-quality. Their monopoly allows them to be lax with testing and quality control.
The same principle applies to search engines. Almost everyone uses google or yahoo to seach for anything. These two sites have become the very interface to the Internet. This also allows them to alter information (place pro-republican sites above pro-democracy for 'election' search), snoop (with the FBI they might already be doing this), and in the long run suffering the same quality control fate as Microsoft. People build a view of the world around them by exploring and communicating with the other people. The Internet allows people to talk to other people far away and share political and moral opinions which on a larger scale helps tolerance and peace itself. These are not small issues; how many politicians can anyone think of who do NOT get their information from the Internet?
More search engines will increase the diversity and break the stronghold of google. Google is a single point of failure for the Internet (the only other one is the DNS servers system) for most Internet users. Although I use it and love it, we are giving one company too much control, while knowing what the results of that are. I do doubt Microsoft can cut it as a competitor there since Ive never used MSN, and Ive seen their success with the XBox and other home-media entertainment ventures. Other skilled companies however can bring a fresh search interface to the online world.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
What exactly is he trying to say here?
"The long range impact on the relationship between MSN and Yahoo/Inktomi is likely at risk."
It looks like the poster has managed to contrive a sentence that means almost but not quite the opposite of what he intended..
Dear MSN,
I tried to search for word Linux with your new and
improved search machine at MSN and it says
that this word does not exist.
However my friend claims it does. Could you please
tell him how wrong he is ? His e-mail is:
john@linux.com
MSN may think it's ready to take down Google, but will it offer it's search page in a wide enough variety of languages, such as:
Bork Bork Bork
Klingon
Pig Latin
and
Elmer Fudd?
It may not be as serious for everone else, but if MS gains dominance over serach engines, they will control traffic on the internet and the little guy will have as much chance as your local mom & pop store had against WalMart.
Maybe I should just forget IT and open a laundromat.
I thought it was a good idea
"The long range impact on the relationship between MSN and Yahoo/Inktomi is likely at risk."
The long range impact is likely at risk?
Does this sentence make sense to anyone?
___ alwaysBETA.com - Hey, you've got nothing better to do.
And in other news, the MSN search system finds web pages reporting the factual truth that the Xbox is more successful than the Playstation2, OpenOffice prints documents in pig latin, and Linux originates from North Korea...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Does anybody actually use the "I'm feeling lucky" button?
-- You people make me sig!
This is the fifth such project from Microsoft that I'm aware of. With the previous other four ending in substantial failure. I wonder if they will succeed this time.
p.s. a search engine needs more than bright undergrads to be developed... Microsoft focuses on hiring undergraduates. Perhaps that explains the abject failure of their previous efforts (which weren't even released).
What do you mean you can't break it down like that? Slashdot won't let you? The're trying to stifle you! Protest. Oh, wait, nevermind.
Little Brother, watching the watchers
Just finished taking a nice long survey on the MSDN site, basically asking me why I prefer searching microsoft.com, and msdn.microsoft.com better with google than Microsoft Search or MSN Search.
Simply put, it works better!?
MS will win.
Want a list of victems?
Who was better? Now who is around?
Who are the current targets
MS can spend 1 billion dollars/month on the war and still make a profit. That's without touching the 50 or so billion it has in the bank. Some one mentioned 20 man years to recreate Google? Easy, they can hire 200 engineers and buy multiple server farms, each one the size of Google's entire installation. Out of petty cash.
http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/programs /#prog_infinity
(test it at http://www.eleves.ens.fr/infinity/)
Check out unlambda too for a brainwreck.
From the "Related but Possibly Not As Relevant" category:
http://netscan.research.microsoft.com/
Seems Microsoft regularly indexes usenet postings. Haven't spent much time investigating the Why's and How's (the answers could be frightening) but the site and its "technology" does provide (if nothing else) a convenient method of searching for mp3 files, warez and pr0n without having to pull and few hundred thousand headers from a news server.
Google, OTH, indexes non-binary groups only.
According to an MSN search for SCO actually gave me SCO's home page at the top. In fact the first five hits go to SCO's site. But I was surpised to learn (emphasis added)
==========
There are two types of people: those who are in the world, and those who aren't.
The search technology, borrowed from the company's SQL Server database, is expected to make it easier to find documents locally, on individual PCs, and across the Internet by linking to MSN's search services.
So basically they're making the same kind of search engine all those college students got sued for making?
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
It would be trivial to modify the robots.txt file or even set your webserver to redirect microsoft "bots" (assuming they come from that domain or similar) or provide them with bogus pages (redirect them to a friends webpage with completely unrelated content). The result would be a major pain in the ass for their algorithm. Plus it would only work on a grand scale (many people doing it).
Granted, you may lose some ranking with _their_ search engine, but why would you want to be indexed on that crummy engine anyway? The way I see it, if a luser from msn.com can't find my content, I don't need them.
Now, if I were a corporate entity, it would be different.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
Not only can you search the web, but you can also search for friends to chat to.
----- Friends, l33tists, l4m3z0rs! Lend me thy keyboards.
I'm a geek. I search for "ant" on MSN, it talks about insects, but the first category mentioned, and the 4th link on Google is for the java build tool. I search for "ruby" on MSN I get precious stones, I search on Google and both the 1st category and the 1st search result are the programming language. I search for "lint" and MSN's search results are mostly about the stuff that you find in your belly button; Google's results are mostly about program validation.
I don't know which one is "better" but the results from Google match what I'm looking for. The ones on MSN don't.
And how long has Google had prominent placement in any Microsoft application? Never. If you want google, you type www.google.com. Or just google. Anyone who uses it today, which is to say most everyone, does this already. Tired of typing the name, download the toolbar. XP has all its searching mapped to MSN already- has anyone even noticed? It might as well be mapped to Altavista.
Server side? Who owns the web server world? Apache does. IIS won't make a dent, and what's more, IIS sites that discard requests from Google will cease to be ranked by google. There's a great feature for choosing IIS as your webserver- your site does not appear in the industry-leading search engine.
MSNBC isn't beating out CNN or the New York Times. People go where they want to go. Downloading software is a totally different matter from browsing websites. Google does not have Netscape's problems.
-- SkepticAC
207.68.171.244 www.google.com
Searching will be nigh on impossible.
.NET and ADO.NET, none of which have ANY relevance to your original query.
Query: 12th century architecture
Result: 12,000 pages about ASP,
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Google also has an ad delivery service for discussion forums (it was recently started on a forum I frequent). Google indexes the new threads extremely often, and based on the content of first couple of posts, a Google-style set of text ads (3 to 5) appears to one side of the thread space. It's far less annoying than popups, banners, interstitials or whatever other intrusive in your face delivery method the rest of the ad delivery services are pushing today. The targeting is usually spot-on or amusingly off-target, the site is making ad money without annoying the users, and the advertisers are getting precision delivery. Let's see MSN do that.
As a test, I searched the appropriate Froogle category for "mexican chocolate" and came up with several pages of results, all of them with a credible reason for being returned ... New Mexican chocolate chile pecans, various Mexican produced cooking chocolates, etc. The same search on MSN, in their closest shopping category, returned one item ... a Mexican poncho. Not chocolate. Not even food.
I gotta hand it to them... With advertising like that (www.msnbot.com), google doesn't have a chance! :)
How are you seaching? Is it just at joke?
Here's what I get from search.msn.com:
browser: http://explorer.msn.com/home.htm
Mozilla: http://www.mozilla.org/
OpenOffice.org: http://www.openoffice.org/
quicktime: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/
Apple computer: http://www.apple.com/
MSN.COM: 42KB HTML, 48KB Images.
GOOGLE.COM: 5KB HTML, 8KB Images.
MSN is too commercial. The search technology doesn't matter. The reason why Google is attractive is because it's:
1) Simple
2) Simple
3) Simple
4) Ad Free
5) Accurate
MSN (and Microsoft) has none of these. If they get #5, they are still down 4 in my book. They can't get 1-4 done, they've already buried themselves knee-deep in editorials, audio, video, and syndicated content.
Moving away from their current setup will alienate their coveted "AOL types", and improving search technology will do nothing to gain the attention of "Google types".
It's not about the results alone, it's the atmosphere and the confidence!
That Microsoft is actually going to follow robots.txt? It's an open standard.
I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
A few years ago, when people were less tech savvy, people were predicting the same thing when MS announced that they were getting into the ISP business.
"Microsoft controls the OS, they'll force people to use their service" was a common opinion.
Well MSN still isn't the biggest service out there.
Comparing an MSN search engine to Google is apples and oranges...
Google is, comparatively speaking, an open standard at this point. It gets the results that you want, doesn't junk up your results and, comparatively speaking again, is pretty much unbiased.
When MS can at least match that, and there's no way in hell they can or will, they might be serious competition.
I hope they try though, it's always nice to see them waste millions of $$$ money on futile attempts to embrace and extend the internet.
Excuse me? Since when did I let on that I'm a n IT worker or anything? News flash: I'm not. In fact, I don't even HAVE a job, nor ever had one. I'm a FRESHMAN in HIGH SCHOOL! I made a simple proofreading error. No need to be an ass.
Or any windoze crap.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Search for linux on MSN: 572 hits
Search for linux on Google: 57.1 million hits
Does this mean the search space of Google is 100,000 times as big?
I wish I had mod points. Now to clean the milk off my monitor...
For those who think google has a chance, you take the company with the clever engineers, I'll take the company with scrupulous business practices and $40 billion in cash and see you in 10 years when you're working for me. The best thing google can do for itself is get out of the way and that seems be what they are doing - ex googlesyndication.com. For googles sake hopefully they win but the odds are against them.
If I was your boss, I'd be wincing.
"MS is trying to compete"
You don't seem to get it.
Nobody minds the competition if its fair.
Its just if you 'know' microsoft, you understand that if it can't compete fairly and win, it will eventually compete 'unfairly' and dominate.
People are afraid that once MS really gets an itching to win the search engine market, they will bring in all the semi-illegal tactics and underhanded strategy they've used succesfully in the past to crush google into oblivion.
Competition is good. MS competition is bad.
http://www.msn.com/linux/ (equiv. to google's linux search)
...
Search for "Linux"
-- How to remove linux and install Windows XP/2003
-- Alternatives to the Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP suite
--
-------
Those who can, do, and those who can't, well
google has a fundamental flaw in its algorithm which recently has been popularly exploited by googlebombers and bloggers all over
it lacks common sense while msn augments its crawling via human filtering and 'context mapping'
a simple test: see how long it takes on either interface to find the home page of that scourge of the search engine, the detroit techno band with the lagubrious name "adult"
however none of that matters as algorithms appeal only to eggheads, and google's topical ad-revenue generation model is revolutionary and is in all probability gonna be much more profitable than msn can ever hope to be in the long run
I find the Google Toolbar to be quite a usefull little add-on to IE. Any time I want to search, it's there
For another nifty Windows95+/IE5.5+ based add-on search tool, see Dave's Quick Search Deskbar. It's so easily user-customized that even *I* was able to create the search Slashdot function
Google is the default engine, but you can set it to anything, IIRC.
Here is the Sourceforge page for the project if you want to see the project history or contribute.
kinda like this
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
"Someone's trying to make money again."
"Do they use, sell or develop products for computers?"
"Yes."
"Stop them. I don't care what it costs."
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
kinda like this
Please mod parent up/funny, not sure if the humour was intentional or not (see link)!
I was wondering why the survey i took on microsoft.com the other day (because i approve of them for the most part unlike most of you) kept asking questions like, "How often do you use Google to search microsoft.com" and "Which Search Engines do you use most often." I would have to say though that microsoft acquiring google could probably not improve google any I appologize if this has already been said, i was not willing to read 500 posts to check.
I went to search.msn.com, just for shits, grins and giggles and typed in "Linux"
r ation
First three hits,
1. Amazon.com
Buy Linux operating system at the Amazon.com software store.
www.amazon.com
2. Introducing Linux
Find the latest news and information on this operating system.
tech.msn.com
3. Alternatives to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP
Learn about the Microsoft alternatives and how to move to them from open source products.
www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/mig
Fuck you Micro$hit. I hope you fail miserably and that your pal, $atan, fucks you up the a$$ 24/7 for eternity.
I'll QUIT using computers before I'll use ANY M$ product or service...
Fortunately, I've switched to Mozilla since then :)
(And yes, that's a direct screenshot. No editting - just trying to read at threshhold -1, nested, on a 400+ comment story.)
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
quick! everyone get the script and let ms dos attack itself!
-judging another only defines yourself
Using Squid Proxy with squidGuard one can simply re-write MSN searchs and direct them to Google... Saves changing the default IE homepage and installing the google search bar as well:
s@http://www.msn.com@http://news.google.com@iR
rew srch-engines {
s@http://search.msn.com@http://www.google.com@ir
s@http://msn.com@http://news.google.com@iR
}
It's rather slick, if you ask me.
Can anyone else hear the Imperial Death March playing as they read this article?
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
Microsoft Aims At Google, and MSNbot
Wouldn't throttled output from /dev/*random be better? At least get some revenge out of it.
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
What a joke! I'm a web developer who frequently attempts to find information with the MSDN (msdn.microsoft.com) search engine. It is without doubt the most useless search engine in existence, the results it returns are 99% of the time completely irrelevant to the keywords i've entered.
Its simple , when you set up your Win PC for your non-geek sister, Set-Up the default homepage to google.
...
And while you're at it, remove the shortcuts to IE, and install a non-microsoft browser. Lets face it there is a good chunk of us here who are responsible for setting up Windoze PC's for non-geek freinds and family. Works for me
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
I agree that there's huge potential for monopoly abuse here. But the scary thing is that it would WORK.
Imagine this:
Joe Average is working on a Word document. He can highlight a word or phrase, click search, and see a bunch of results in a popup pane. All without leaving MSWord. And imagine if there are automated features that allow you to then incorporate those search results into your bibliography, citations, research reference files attached to your document, etc.
Google: mission critical
...
transferring....done.
pages about mission critical softare
M$oogle: mission critical
transferring.....clippy waves at you...
transferring.....banner ad pops up...
transferring.....license key checked...
BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH!
Hey there, Anyone else find this last sentence interesting; "The search technology, borrowed from the company's SQL Server database, is expected to make it easier to find documents locally, on individual PCs, and across the Internet by linking to MSN's search services" Could it be that MSN is going to develop a search service which allows you to upload your own file information to their search engine to allow for you to "distribute documents"? At the same time they could also check to make sure you don't have the latest pirated version of Office installed. Hey, they could even check to see if you have a hidden pr0n collection for all we know. Just my 2c, Stuart
Microsoft's search engine for MSDN is completely broken... I have to use google to search MS's own site... this is complete bullshit. MS just doesn't know how to impliment searching properly.
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
The word up - is that this isn't going to compete directly with the Google model, but something a bit closer to Inktomi and Overture.