41 Million Sign Up for National Do-Not-Call List

ejbst25 writes "The first wave of the do not call registry sign up ends 8/31. There is plenty of news coverage but they say there is already over 41 million numbers registered."

Comments

Cell Phone Number

[gsparrow]

Can telemarketers call your cell phone number? Do you need to put your cell number on the do not call list or is it already protected since you pay on a time basis?

Re:Cell Phone Number

[inimicus]

From the page:

"You can register your home and mobile phone numbers for free."

Almost makes me wish I still had my old cell-phone account with Caller Pays...

Re:Cell Phone Number

[LinuxHam]

It is illegal right now, but my Mom gets telemarketing calls on hers almost daily. Yay AT&T.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Radojevic]

The 'Do Not Call List' let you enter up to 3 phone numbers, including cell phone numbers. g

Re:Cell Phone Number

[514x0r]

i gave up my landLine a couple of years ago--screw sbc, but that's another story--and recently have started getting telemarketers calling me on my cell. still not too many and they usually hang up when i tell them it's a cell.

it's more fun, though, to wait for them to inform you that the call may be recorded for qa and freak out about it ;)

Re:Cell Phone Number

[afidel]

Right now any legal telemarketing company that is not incompetant will run as one of their first checks a national cellphone block check and remove all numbers that are from the cellphone number blocks. The exceptions would be new numbers that have not yet been registered. With telephone number portability this will become possibly less reliable because the FCC is thinking of making numbers portable between cellphone and landline services. If that comes to pass then telemarketers will be able to legitimatly state that they can not reliably block cellphones, at that time you may need to add your cell number to the national DNC list.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[gsparrow]

I like your Idea about freaking out for training purposes. lol

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Gleef]

gsparrow asks:

Can telemarketers call your cell phone number?
Of course they can. However, barring certain exceptions, it is illegal for them to do so if your name is on the national do-not-call list. Alternately, it is illegal for any telemarketer to call you if you have requested to be added to their own "do-not-call" list. Note: telling them "don't call me" or "take me off your list" might not be sufficient, you must ask to be added to their "do-not-call list".

Do you need to put your cell number on the do not call list
You don't need to put any number on the list, but it can be useful if you want the protection that the list offers. It could be especially useful for a cell phone, given the pricing structure of most cellular plans.

or is it already protected since you pay on a time basis?
My understanding is, the fact that you pay for time spent on incoming calls doesn't protect you in any way from any call. If anything, it makes you more vulnerable, and makes registering the number on the do-not-call more useful.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Anonymous Coward]

She must be pretty busy, between that and yelling down to the basement for you to clean it up.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[aliens]

She probably put it as a phone number when filling in some form. That list was then sold to telemarketters. There's no way for them to know.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[gfxguy]

Sure there is - the area code and exchange will tell them wether or not it's a mobile phone. Some telemarketers are dilligent enough to actually check.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[princewally]

They can check, but the don't have to. They do, however, need to stop calling immediately if you tell them it's a cell phone. Unless you have an account with them and used that number to sign up for the account.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Tackhead]

> Right now any legal telemarketing company that is not incompetant will [...]

Stop right there. Why not just fess up and admit that you own 100 shares of Unicorn and Virgin, Inc, and you want the stock price to go up?

Re:Cell Phone Number

[princewally]

or is it already protected since you pay on a time basis?

My understanding is, the fact that you pay for time spent on incoming calls doesn't protect you in any way from any call. If anything, it makes you more vulnerable, and makes registering the number on the do-not-call more useful.

It does protect you from some calls. Third-party collection agencies aren't allowed to call cell phones or pay-per-page pagers without permission. They don't have to check to see if it's a cell phone, though.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[vectormane]

Go here and check the box next to 'Michael.'

Re:Cell Phone Number

[afidel]

Actually I have a best friend and older brother that work as data analysts for different telemarketing firms. I have gotten to know the gritty details of the telemarketing data screening process from helping them or listening to them whine about their day.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Surreal_Streaker]

Can telemarketers call your cell phone number? Do you need to put your cell number on the do not call list or is it already protected since you pay on a time basis?

Do you currently get telemarketing calls to your cell phone?
If not, what benifit do you expect from registering your phone number?
Have you considered that there might be a downside to registering?

Re:Cell Phone Number

[dolson]

I work at a call center, and we're not allowed to call businesses or cell phones.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Dharzhak]

My understanding is, the fact that you pay for time spent on incoming calls doesn't protect you in any way from any call.

Incorrect. From the Telephone Consumer Protection Act:

a.No person may
1.Initiate any telephone call (other than a call made for emergency purposes or made with the prior express consent of the called party) using an automatic telephone dialing system or an artificial or prerecorded voice,
iii.To any telephone number assigned to a paging service, cellular telephone service, specialized mobile radio service, or other radio common carrier service, or any service for which the called party is charged for the call;

So, while cell phones are not protected from *all* calls, they are protected from those that use "an automatic telephone dialing system or an artificial or prerecorded voice," which is a significant percentage since most telemarketing companies use an automatic dialer.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[johndoesovich]

I recall hearing that it is a violation for those bastards to call cell phones. I added mine to the do not call registry hoping they will stop calling it. Anyhow, a little googling provided additional information.
http://www.cm.nu/~shane/lists/comp.dcom.telecom.te ch/2003-01/0037.html
"It is a violation of Federal Statute 47 USC 227"
Statute 47 USC 227:
Information Taken From: http://www.ornocall.com/ced73709.html
(1) Prohibitions - It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States -
(iii) to any telephone number assigned to a paging service, cellular telephone service, specialized mobile radio service, or other radio common carrier service, or any service for which the called party is charged for the call;
Hope this helps

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Suppafly]

but should I infer from your post that you're implying that all Michael's articles are, by nature, crap ?

For the most part, that is a correct assumption.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[HomerJay]

That's not completely true, up until last year I had a cell phone with an area code and exchange that was used for land lines as well as cell phones. I'd still have that number had I stayed with the same cell provider.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[DiveX]

[i]Of course they can. However, barring certain exceptions [donotcall.gov], it is illegal for them to do so if your name is on the national do-not-call list. [/i]

This is absolutely incorrect. The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 (yes, over a decade ago) has made calls to numbers where the person must pay for the call (i.e. cell phones) illegal. There are few exceptions (such as where you specifically gave the organization calling your number as the point of contact. However if your organization were to sell the number, anyone else calling would be in violation.)

[i]Alternately, it is illegal for any telemarketer to call you if you have requested to be added to their own "do-not-call" list. Note: telling them "don't call me" or "take me off your list" might not be sufficient, you must ask to be added to their "do-not-call list". [/i]

Finally, a few people understand this. This is extremely important. Also say specifically "Add me to your do-not-call list" and "Send me a copy of your policy regarding the maintence of your do-not-call list". You should do this without exception.

[i]My understanding is, the fact that you pay for time spent on incoming calls doesn't protect you in any way from any call. [/i]

Your understandiong is, unfortunately, incorrect. The whole idea behind the pay-per-call and junk fax provisions were to prevent people from having to pay for the advertising of another. Junk faxes have been illegal for over a decade. There is NO established business relationship that would allow a junk fax. If you do business with a company and they send you a weekly ad without your prior EXPRESS permission, then they are in as much violation of the law as the random loan or vacation fax that you get.

[i]If anything, it makes you more vulnerable, and makes registering the number on the do-not-call more useful. [/i]

It makes it more useful for the government, but not really for you. The new rules do not provide a private right of action if you get called when you are on the list. You only have a private right of action if they make two calls in violation of the law withing a 12 month period, though it hasn't been decided if a firs call is a violation that would count. Time and additional rulings will tell.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[ChaoticPup]

my Mom gets telemarketing calls on hers almost daily. Yay AT&T.

I've been an AT&T Mobile customer (and prior to that Cellular One, which was bought out by At&T) for 12 years now. I don't recall ever getting a telemarketing call on my cell phone. I doubt it's AT&T's fault.

- CP

Re:Cell Phone Number

[quistas]

That's not true: if they use an auto-dialer of any kind, it's illegal to call a cell phone. Live dialing is still legal. You can go look this up if you.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[leifm]

This is a bit offtopic but somewhat similar to the above thread. What happens when spammers start spamming cellphones the are text message ready (and I think most are now)? My current provider charges ten cents per message, and that could get nasty if I didn't have that "feature" disabled.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[zangdesign]

This is /. If there's any laundry, it WILL be aired, regardless of merit, circumstance or anything else.

I ain't sayin' it's right, I'm just sayin' it's what happens.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Darth_Burrito]

So let's say I have a few room mates and we share one phone line. We then split the costs of the phone bill based on the number of minutes of calltime outgoing or incomming with a one minute minimum for each call. In the case of a telemarketer, whoever answers the phone takes the hit for that call. At this point, the called party is being charged for the call. Would it then be illegal to call any of us without our consent?

Re:Cell Phone Number

[GiMP]

Cell phones in Europe already have this problem as well as a Nextel phone a company used to work for had. Luckily, I haven't gotten it on my own phone yet.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[dolson]

How am I wrong? WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CALL CELL PHONES. The trainer told us this flat out. I didn't say that it was any American law or anything, I simply said that *WE* are not allowed to call cells. Learn how to read.

Re:Cell Phone Number

[Vlad_the_Inhaler]

The sender pays for SMS messages in Europe - not the recipient, although I think the recipient also has to pay something if (s)he is in a different (foreign) network.
Most of the spam SMS I get here is from foreign networks telling me their wonderful service numbers when I dock into their networks, although they would have a tough time charging for those.

3 are mine

[LinuxHam]

CNN ran a reminder today that the sign-up was expiring so I jumped right on it.

Re:3 are mine

[freeze128]

When can you sign up again? I thought you could sign up anytime. If the next opening for sign-up is in 5 years, then I'm gonna just pull the ringer out of my phone.

Re:3 are mine

[-Surak-]

You can sign up any time, but telespammers are only required to check the master list once every three months. So if you wait until after the 31st, they won't need to stop calling your number until Feb 1st (instead of Oct 1st). They explain it on the front page of the donotcall.gov site.

Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[zptdooda]

I got an error on my area code when I tried to register.

This seems to be a Canadian do not call registry, but it's private sector. So it wouldn't be as effective and may be open to abuse.

Does anyone know if there's a Canadian federal goverment equivalent service?

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[zptdooda]

Hey we let you play in the National Hockey League. Thought you guys might return the favour :)

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[SandSpider]

I got an error on my area code when I tried to register.

I knew it! Even the Canadians don't know it's a different country!

=Brian

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[Mashiki]

Canada's standard operating procedure in things like this is either to let the private sector do things like this, see above. Wait for massive public outcry, or until it effects them directly and then do something about it. In which case they'll jump all over it.

So, if you didn't get that...there is no Canadian federal equivalent service, and if there is...you may see it in 5-10 years like most other things.

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[FunkSoulBrother]

You mean this National Hockey League?

National Hockey League
1251 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10020

The one with 6 Canadian teams and 24 American Teams?

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[zptdooda]

Okay I'm already sorry I phrased it that way. Here's some history of the NHL
showing its Canadian roots, although who cares now. It's better with more teams.

But I should have said something more like "we play together in the NHL" rather than "let you play".

Sorry for the offence/offense/forward/left wing/whatever you want to call it.

My point was that something national doesn't have to be so exclusive.

Another example is that the fine people at NASA have graciously let other countries' astronauts fly on your shuttles on many occasions. Ironically making these guests national heroes in their own countries.

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[FunkSoulBrother]

I understand, I was just giving you a hard time. Although with the reputation my country has going for it, I probably shouldn't have.

My favorite team was the Winnepeg Jets (I'm from nearby North Dakota) before they were stolen away.

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[Inode Jones]

The CDMA list applies only to members of the CDMA. It won't be abused, but it does not provide complete protection.

Nevertheless, it is worth doing. I used to get 4-5 telespam calls per day. After I put my number on the CDMA DNC, I now get maybe 1-2 a week.

There is no regulation of talk-to-human telemarketing in Canada whatsoever, other than the self-policing CDMA. Automatic dialing/announcing devices (ADAD) are regulated somewhat.

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[mfrank]

Well, the main difference is the NHL is funded with private money, paid by both Canadians and Americans, while the Do Not Call registry's paid for by American taxpayers.

Feel free to apply to be states 51 thru 61, though (we don't want Quebec).

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[zptdooda]

Aw, c'mon how about a good ole-style NHL straight trade, Quebec for Louisiana? You _know_ it's been on the table before :)

Re:Hrmph. doesn't work for Canada it seems

[zx75]

No, the problem is that American companies don't! And yes, I have received calls from US based companies that have wanted to sell me something. As if I don't have enough local companies calling me!

zx75
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Do-Not-Spam

[BJZQ8]

Who's up for a nationwide do-not-spam list?

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[rylin]

Hi!
I run just such a service.

Please provide your email address so I can add it to the list.

Would you also like a copy of our daily news letter with funny jokes, links to herbal stores and mortgage help?

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[Moth7]

I've got a nice little regex that could be used to generate a "do-not-spam" list:
/^[\w\.\-]+\@[\w\.\-]+\.[a-z][a-z]+$/i
Of course when the corporate nitwits tried to edit their list in Outlook Mr ^[\w\.\-]+\ @ [\w\.\-]+\.[a-z][a-z]+$ would be the only person who benefited

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[NihilSmurf]

Funny, but the proper regex for matching email addresses is 6598 characters long.
See "Mastering Regular Expressions", p316.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[Moth7]

Sorry, I've only got the camel book for reference ^_^ But seriously, why do we need to have a "do-not-spam" list? Why can't we work things the other way, allowing idiots to sign up for a "feel-free-to-spam" list?

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[The Old Burke]

Actually the government just did this.
From the donotcall.gov registartion page:

Your email address MUST be correct to process your registration.

This list is The list to get their hands on for spammers. 41m real email-addresse!!
Wonder how long it takes before some enterprising governmental employee "accidentaly" copied the A part of the list and oooppps burnt it on a CD-ROM and ooopps put it in a shippment to Baton Rouge....

Actually, IMHO the government should forsee this and grabbing the oppurtunity. This list could bring in a lot of money if used or sold in the right way. This money could in turn be given back as tax cuts that boosts the economy or the money could be used in the fight aginst spam/terror and/or drugs.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[Cutriss]

Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[arkanes]

People would get pissed because it's a state right to sell the names & addresses of the people who live in it. There's several states who'll happilly sell you CDs with DMV records on them.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[Kjella]

I have one. It's in the law here. Doesn't seem to be doing much good tho, I've never seen anyone prosecuted by it, yet them spam keeps coming on a regular basis.

Kjella

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[caseydk]

Exactly... just wait until Congress realizes that they have 41 MILLION email addresses/phone numbers that people have an incentive to keep up to date and accurate.

Then along comes a budget deficit and they can sell them... oh, wait.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[princewally]

I wouldn't sign up for a do-not-spam list. That would just give spammers my email address. If they're offshore and can get access to the list, then the list will be helping, not hurting them.

I am all for hurting spammers. In the wallet, in the head, whatever.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[WinDoze]

The solution: Mailinator

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[micromoog]

This list could bring in a lot of money if used or sold in the right way. This money could in turn be given back as tax cuts that boosts the economy or the money could be used in the fight aginst spam/terror and/or drugs.

Wait, so you're saying the government should lie to us and purposely misuse information we give them, in order to facilitate the right-wing agenda? Are all republicans as FUCKING CRAZY as you?

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[crucini]

But if it were a list of MD5 hashes of email addresses, spammers couldn't use it to get the email addresses.

Re:Do-Not-Spam

[Xtifr]

Your email address MUST be correct to process your registration.

It only has to be valid long enough for them to send you a confirmation email. Using a throwaway address is more than good enough. How do I know? Because it worked for me(tm)! :)

Hardly a surprise...

[inimicus]

... wonder how many lawsuits will be filed against it before things finally settle out.

not gonna do it.

[514x0r]

it's just another way for them to track me.

has anyone seen a size 7 1/4 tin foil hat around here?

Re:not gonna do it.

[DChristensen]

On confering with my tin foil hat database, doing a cross-lookup with your Slashdot ID, we have determined that it is under your sofa. Jeez, I thought they stopped selling that style in the 70's...?

Love,

The Government

Re:not gonna do it.

[Chaotician]

I believe the statement goes: "If your tinfoil is still on the roll and not on your head, you've already been compromised."

Do not patronize

[Offwhite98]

My guess is the people who are not on the lists will now get more calls because there is a smaller pool of numbers to use. In that case, I would like to see a "Do not patronize" list for companies that bother people at home with sales pitches. If a company wants to get their word out, they will have to learn to use advertising and not my home phone.

Re:Do not patronize

[aardvarkjoe]

I would like to see a "Do not patronize" list

It's called a "large, vicious dog."

Re:Do not patronize

[MImeKillEr]

Can we add companies to the list that use door-to-door salesmen who still insist on knocking on my door despite the No Soliciting and No Trespassing signs?

Please?!?

Re:Do not patronize

[MImeKillEr]

I know. I live in Round Rock (5 min. north of Austin). :-)

Hmmm. Looks like I need to take a trip to McBride's and get that nice 12 gague I've been looking at.

Does it have to be at the property line? I don't have a gate at the property line, nor any way to put a sign there. I do, however, have a large pillar at the start of my front porch.

I guess I could always let the dogs out. They're labs and between 65-85 lbs each. Most people don't realize labs don't bite and freak when they see them all puffed up and barking at them.

Re:Do not patronize

[wowbagger]

I just answer the door with the lower receiver for my AR-15 in one hand, and a cleaning cloth in the other. Continue to polish the receiver as you talk to them.

The nice thing is there is no way they can claim you threatened them, as you only had a PART of the weapon at the door.

Re:Do not patronize

[MegaFur]

I did door-to-door sales one summer. (But please don't kill me, I've reformed!) We were instructed to go ahead and knock on the doors of people that had "no soliciting" signs and the like. The rationale, basically, was that sometimes you'd get away with it. The doormat that reads "We shoot every third salesman that comes here and the last two just left!" is only funny when you're not a door-to-door salesman.
(You already know that salespeople are a despicable, underhanded lot, but until you've actually been one, you can't know how desparate, gruelling, and utterly shitty sales really is.)
I knocked on the door anway... but apparently no one was home.

Re:Do not patronize

[pmz]

The doormat that reads "We shoot every third salesman that comes here and the last two just left!" is only funny when you're not a door-to-door salesman.

Where can I get this doormat?

Or, should I just post "no tresspassing" signs all along the driveway and attach the doorbell to a trigger...

Re:Do not patronize

[mfrank]

Wire the doorbell up to 115 VAC. Tell your friends and relatives to knock (or don't, Pavlov's theory works on them).

Re:Do not patronize

[Maserati]

If memory serves, the receiver is the part with the serial number, so some jurisdictions may consider that to be legally the entire gun.

Re:Do not patronize

[gid]

And put a big sign above it that says "do not push".

Which actually reminds me of a funny story....

I used to work for a dot com start up until recently. Anyway, at our old office there was a "big red button" on the wall ( a left over from the previous tenants of the building ), that we all always glared at, wondering what it did. I was always a big supporter of the "never push it" philosophy, whilst other people wanted to push it and find out what it did.

Well, one day, a client was in the office, and she jokingly asked what the "big red button" was for. One of the guys says, oh it does nothing because he's sure he remembers someone else pushing it before... He pushed it. Just then about 90% of the power in the building went out, only a few random lights remained on. Keep in mind the building we were in actually houses a few other companies, and their power went out as well.

One can only guess why that button was there. But to this day, I never miss a chance to say "I told you so". Curiosity, indeed, killed the cat.

Re:Do not patronize

[Karl Cocknozzle]

Can we add companies to the list that use door-to-door salesmen who still insist on knocking on my door despite the No Soliciting and No Trespassing signs?

We have a real problem with trespassing solicitors at my apartment complex. Our entire complex is a piece of private property, no publicly owned streets or sidewalks in it. We don't allow any salesmen on the grounds, and have four dozen clearly labelled signs that say NO SOLICITING. So a non-resident walking around ringing doorbells to solicit is definitely trespassing.

Last summer, I had a guy get kind of pushy with me when I told him he was trespassing and would have to leave. After he continued pitching me after I asked him to leave, I told him he should start walking, or I was calling 9-1-1, and he actually tried to force his way into my apartment! Luckily, my Louisville Slugger (the finest home defense weapon known to man) convinced him that my home wasn't a place he wanted to be.

We're moving to a gated community (with an armed guard) next month because of this incident... Now that I live with my girlfriend, I just can't risk a force-in from some 'hood rat who wants to rip us off. Until then, she knows where my gun is, and has been trained how to use it when I'm not home. I would feel sorry for somebody who tried it with her home alone, because they will probably end up with a .45 between the eyes, instead of just a couple broken ribs, like I gave the guy who tried to force-in on me.

Re:Do not patronize

[jcr]

Luckily, my Louisville Slugger (the finest home defense weapon known to man) convinced him that my home wasn't a place he wanted to be.

Dude, it really warms my heart to know that you actually smacked the perp with that bat. A few more incidents like that in your town, and I'm sure the door-to-door trespassing business would dry right up.

-jcr

Re:Do not patronize

[charon_on_acheron]

Only in states where pi=3.

Re:Do not patronize

[MegaFur]

That might work. But some salesmen/Jehova's Witnesses/etc will keep right on going anway. They'll just laugh it off like, "oh wow, that Mr. Jones, he is such a card!" and go up to your door with a big ol' grin. But at least their finger will hurt.

It is difficult to dissuade the "righteous".

Re:Do not patronize

[cpt kangarooski]

Yeah, my family's lab bit someone once. Only reason we no longer have to forcibly restrain him from going after strangers (he's very friendly to us and people he gets used to) is because he's so old he has trouble standing up.

Re:Do not patronize

[MImeKillEr]

No, shithead. **MY** labs don't bite.

good for 5 years

[LinuxHam]

I even signed up my cellphone just in case someone decides to repeal the law protecting our cellphones from unwanted solicitation calls. If you register prior to the deadline, your numbers are blocked as of October 1. If you register after the deadline, your phone will be blocked 3 months later.

Re:good for 5 years

[filledwithloathing]

This is not a good idea if your phone isn't currently recieving telemarketing calls.

Q: If I register my number on the National Do Not Call Registry, will it stop all telemarketing calls?

A: No. Placing your number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most, but not all, telemarketing calls. You may still receive calls from political organizations, charities, telephone surveyors or companies with which you have an existing business relationship.

THIS LIST IS GOING TO BE MADE AVAILABLE TO CHARITIES AND SURVEYORS for them to use.

Re:good for 5 years

[wuice]

Damn those charities!

Summarized

[TopShelf]

The whole story boils down to:

FROM: The American People
TO: The Telemarketing Industry

Fuck you.

Sincerely,
The American People

Re:Summarized

[rylin]

FROM: The American People

221 Error: I can break rules, too. Goodbye.
Connection closed by foreign host.

Re:Summarized

[steelrecluse]

This is a red herring. Telemarketing companies are moving those jobs overseas anyway, it is the ideal job to move to India etc as it is done completely over the phone. So when Telemarketing companies whine about this law causing millions of lost jobs ask them how many of those jobs would have been shipped overseas anyway...

Re:Summarized

[Zigg]

Yes.

Re:Summarized

[minion]

FROM: The American People

TO: The Telemarketing Industry

Doesn't the term Industry imply productivity?

Re:Summarized

[cybermage]

p.s. You shall die the death of 41 million paper cuts.

Re:Summarized

[pmz]

sending them seaworthy jobwise a good idea? isn't the economy full of the jobless already.

What about "fuck you" do the telemarketers not understand?

Telemarketing is an assault on people's personal time. Telemarketers are scum.

Re:Summarized

[mfrank]

The jobs are going there anyway. This way, though, I can waste their time and rack up their phone bill by describing in great detail the tasty hamburger I'm currently eating. With *two* all-beef patties.

Re:Summarized

[JustAnotherReader]

The funny thing is that telemarketing companies have gone to court to claim that this do-not-call list violates their free speech rights. Excuse me! Violates their free speech rights!? If calling me in MY home on MY phone is a violation of their free speech rights then what's next? Would hanging up on them be considered a violation?

It's sad how people seem to want to bend the constitution to their own personal needs and wishes. The law is suppose to protect the people, not be a tool to use to abuse the people.

This would be great if it worked

[CrazyTalk]

I'm on the National AND state (PA) do not call lists - got on both the first day possible. I'm still getting unwanted phone soliciations, mainly from automated machines that I cannot argue with. I admit that the call volume has dropped significantly, but its definately not a foolproof system.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[inimicus]

Register a complaint with your phone service provider. They should be able to track the number (even if they say they can't), and might be willing and able to take action if enough people gripe about it under 47 United States Code 227.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[no_nicks_available]

How is that even possible when the national DNCL doesn't take affect until Oct. 1?

rtfa plz.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[514x0r]

i believe when the national list was first offered they said that the initial signUps would begin to see the effect in october. the main problem will be all of the exempt agencies.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[afidel]

The national DNC list does not take effect until Oct 1 so give it some time =)

Re:This would be great if it worked

[N7DR]

I am on the Colorado list. Not long ago I got a call and, since I had nothing much better to do, talked to the telemarketer nicely to extract as much info as possible (since it's my experience that as soon as you take a combative approach, they hang up before you've got enough information to report them).

I then went to the Web site to report them. The Web site makes it clear that the whole do-not-call system only works properly if violators are reported. So I went through a few pages of filling out forms with all the tedious details of the call. Then I hit the "submit" button and get a "your submission could not be processed" error.

OK, thinks I. This is because the morons expect me to be using IE. So I went through it all again using IE instead of Firebird. Same thing.

So I send them an e-mail at the mailto address, telling them that I wanted to report a violation and was unable to do so because the web site repeatedly gave me an error when trying to process the information.

I never heard anything from them.

I'm not sure what to conclude from this story. But I ended up being even more ticked off at the state government than I was at the telemarketer. And that's a pretty high threshold to reach.

I sure hope that the national list has a more effective mechanism for reporting offenders.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[br0ck]

How did you file a complaint? The page for filing complaints doesn't even do anything, it just says that telemarketers must stop calling you on October 1st and that complaints may begin being filed at that time.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[N7DR]

How did you file a complaint? The page for filing complaints doesn't even do anything, it just says that telemarketers must stop calling you on October 1st and that complaints may begin being filed at that time.

Maybe you missed the fact that this was someone who violated the Colorado no-call list? So I filed a complaint (well, I tried to file a compaint) at www.coloradonocall.com.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[FlyGirl]

I sure hope that the national list has a more effective mechanism for reporting offenders.

They, at least, include a phone number.

From http://www.donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQConsumers.aspx

For more information, see the privacy policy. You may also call 1-888-382-1222 to submit a complaint; for TTY, call 1-866-290-4236

Re:This would be great if it worked

[fucksl4shd0t]

How did you file a complaint? The page for filing complaints doesn't even do anything, it just says that telemarketers must stop calling you on October 1st and that complaints may begin being filed at that time.

If you read the fucking post, you'd see he was talking about the State of Colorado's do not call list.

Of course, I'm just feeling a little bitchy because there's Paula Abdul singing in my living room, the little tramp.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[HutchGeek]

I'm on the National AND state (PA) do not call lists - got on both the first day possible. I'm still getting unwanted phone soliciations, mainly from automated machines that I cannot argue with.

I'm on both as well. In fact I just added both of my cell phones to them since I started getting telemarketing calls on them. So if you think cell phones are exempt from getting calls - think again. Telemarketers have no scruples, morals, or common sense even.

As an example. I got a call 2 days ago at 8:55 am. Came up on the caller ID as an Unknown Caller. Big surprise. Answered the phone. (Yeah I know - but I've got friends who block their numbers and blah blah blah.) Its a recording telling em I've won a Disney trip, and to call an 800 number and give them a code to claim my trip. My fiancee called em.

She asks who they are. They refuse to tell her. They push for her name, address and phone number. She tells them she's on a do not call list and where did they get this number. She was told "That's not important." Bullshit! She tells them she lives in PA and is on their do not call list, and the National List. Guess what these people tell her? "Oh - we don't use those." She flipped, and hung up. I called them back about an hour later. "Can I help you?" Yes - who are you? "Consumer Services." Good enough - that fills out the form to have you sued by PA state. Have a nice day.

Now according to PA state's site on the issue - telemarketers who violate the law on telemarketing will be fined $1,000.00 per call, or $5,000.00 if its to a senior citizen. 10% goes back to the consumer. What I want to know now is - how do I track my case? When do I get paid? Yeah.... RIGHT!

The law would have been more useful if they FTC/Congress made all business phone lines to show who the business is ... and their phone number. That way they COULD be reported ACCURATELY to the FTC. We'd also be able to ignore the calls far easier. Just my .02 cents. Wait - I dont have .02 cents!

Re:This would be great if it worked

[El]

This sounds like the Oregon Department of Agriculture. Operating on the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" they came out and set up an insect trap on my property (never mind the 6 "no trespassing" signs) with a "call this number to have the trap removed" message on the side. Of course, every time I called the number, it told me "this voice mail box is full and cannot record any more messages!" Arrghh!!! If you think the State feels any obligation to look out for your rights as an individual, you're delusional.

Re:This would be great if it worked

[andrewski]

Next time you should just shoot 'em. We do have pretty leniant self- and property-defense laws here.

80 %?

[geekmetal]

The FTC has estimated that the list will block about 80 percent of telemarketing calls. Charities, pollsters and political campaigns are exempt. In addition, a company may call a person if he or she has bought, leased or rented from the firm in the previous 18 months or has inquired about or applied for something during the past three months.

I think with those exceptions the call reduction will be much lesser than 80%, 40% maybe?

Re:80 %?

[mz001b]

The FTC has estimated that the list will block about 80 percent of telemarketing calls. Charities, pollsters and political campaigns are exempt. In addition, a company may call a person if he or she has bought, leased or rented from the firm in the previous 18 months or has inquired about or applied for something during the past three months.

Political campaigns?... crap, I can see it now. Hi I'm calling from Ace Windshield Replacement. We're running for California governor, but enough about that, let me tell you about windows. With your appropriate donation to our busine...err, campaign, we can repair any windows in your vehicle...

Re:80 %?

[Jhon]

Most of the marketing calls I get are from my credit card companies trying to sell extra "features" for the card. This wont impact those at all.

Maybe once or twice a month, I get a call from the LA TIMES -- I wont be sad to see them never call again.

Re:80 %?

[Gleef]

Individual mileage may vary. For example, when I contributed to a charity, I noticed a marked increase in the number of charities calling me, including charities having no similarity to the one I contributed to.

Likewise, I would expect political calls to increase if I contributed to a politician's campaign, including from other campaigns in the same party. Even without contributing, I would expect more political calls and pollsters in the summer and early fall of even-numbered years.

Re:80 %?

[2short]

Well, I signed up for the Colorado list, which has roughly the same exceptions, and I'd say the 80% is conservative. Before signing up, I got a couple unwanted calls a day, now it's maybe one a week. Big improvement.

One of my credit card companies was willing to understand that even though we have an existing relationship, I don't want calls about exciting aditional opportunities, the other I cancelled. Other than that I don't appear to have any existing business relationships, at least with anyone intersted in using that to get around the law with a new sales pitch.

The political campaigns I don't really mind, in my experience it's one call right before election day, not even advocating a particular candidate. Just reminding me to vote and offering directions to my polling station. The call is actually from whichever party thinks they'll be helped by greater turnout in my precinct.

I've gotten a few 'pollsters' who's poll is obviously designed to determine if you warant a visit from a door-to-door salesman. That's kind of lame. But the vast majority of the remaining calls are charities. I explain that while I realize they don't have to use the do-not-call-list, the fact that they have not done so voluntarily has caused me to add them to my do-not-donate list. Not that I imagine the jerk in the call center cares.

Anyway, the total volume of unwanted calls is vastly reduced since I signed up for the list. Sufficiently that telemarketers have completely dropped off my things that annoy me list, after years of being near the top.

Re:80 %?

[2short]

"what are the odds that charities, pollsters and political campaigns just got a new source for their call list."

Pretty low, since their current call list, (aka "The Phone Book") already included all those numbers.

Re:80 %?

[2short]

Let's see, what percentage of those numbers represent people who had unlisted numbers, but were too clueless to realize they weren't getting telemarketing calls and signed up anyway? Yeah, I bet charities are really salivating at the chance to go through that list to find both the numbers on it they didn't have before.

Bit of info....

[Akasha]

While the Do-Not-Call list does protect you from unsolicited calls from private groups, it does not protect you from non-profit groups (such as charities).

While I'm glad I some protection from telemarketers I know I am still going to get calls from the police asking for donations and silently threatening to ticket me if I don't donate.

Re:Bit of info....

[bryanthompson]

From the Do Not Call FAQ:

Q: If I register my number on the National Do Not Call Registry, will it stop all telemarketing calls?

A: No. Placing your number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most, but not all, telemarketing calls. You may still receive calls from political organizations, charities, telephone surveyors or companies with which you have an existing business relationship.

I think the allowed types of organizations are a lot more tolerable than someone trying to sell me into a book club.

Re:Bit of info....

[MImeKillEr]

While the Do-Not-Call list does protect you from unsolicited calls from private groups, it does not protect you from non-profit groups (such as charities).

True, but I *think* they still have to remove you from their calling list if you request it. Failure to do so is punishable by a $500 fine.

Fortunately, most charities get the picture when you tell them you're not interested. I've not had to tell a charity more than once.

Re:Bit of info....

[gears5665]

good point, but maybe if you were willing to pay higher taxes, the fraternal order of extortionists wouldn't be so short on cash... Better Idea, lets tax the top 5% and additional 100% more than they are paying now. They have more to lose, they should pay more to protect it.

Re:Bit of info....

[dapcook]

Please buy siding for your house from the United Way...

Re:Bit of info....

[Gleef]

Akasha wrote:

While the Do-Not-Call list does protect you from unsolicited calls from private groups, it does not protect you from non-profit groups (such as charities).

True, but you can always ask these groups to add you to their own "do-not-call" lists. They can get in trouble if they call you after that.

While I'm glad I some protection from telemarketers I know I am still going to get calls from the police asking for donations and silently threatening to ticket me if I don't donate.

Of course, I would be nervous being on their do-not-call list, it might also become a wait-an-hour-before-responding-to-911-call list. ;-)

Re:Bit of info....

[Shivaji Maharaj]

And give Dubya one more election issue to win on ?
No, thank you.
Once is more than enough.
SM

Re:Bit of info....

[RESPAWN]

While I'm glad I some protection from telemarketers I know I am still going to get calls from the police asking for donations and silently threatening to ticket me if I don't donate.

Have you ever thought about the fact that it's probably not a policeman calling you soliciting you for donations, and that the person calling to solicit donations could in fact be from an outside contracting company? I spent some time working for such a company in my local area. (Don't worry I wasn't a telemarketer for them.) The "police officers" that called (who btw, never explicitly say that they are police officers) were merely normal people in a room with a list of phone numbers. They work for a company who contracts out to various police organizations to solicit donations for them, pick up the donations, and then give the donations to the non-profit group. There was no bad guy list also submitted to the police with the identifying information of those who did not donate. Although a donation and the applicaiton of a sticker to your car may help keep you from getting ticketed (I believe it did me once), there is no penalty for not donating, despite what may be implied.

Caveat: This was only in my area. It may be different in other areas and with larger non-profit organizations for whom it is more financially viable to handle the solicitations and collecting in house instead of farming it out to a telemarketing company. But even in those situations I'm betting that the callers would still be normal people simply working for a pay check whose only motivation to get you to donate is their commission. Most real police officers have better things to do with their time.

Re:Bit of info....

[slide-rule]

Fortunately, most charities get the picture when you tell them you're not interested.
Unforturnately, the local sheriff's office solicitor for (Middletown) Connecticut did not get the picture. I swear, he was trying some real, high pressure, hard sell tactics worthy, nearly, of a blackmail artist, to get me on to his contribution list. I counted five "no"s before I started getting irate and lost count. "No." "Okay, well, I'll just put you down for a $10 donation if you..." "NO!"
At this point, I'm going to go out of my way to jerk around the next person that calls me and not send them a dime. No should mean no, the first time.

Re:Bit of info....

[Tackhead]

> > While I'm glad I some protection from telemarketers I know I am still going to get calls from the police asking for donations and silently threatening to ticket me if I don't donate.
>
> Of course, I would be nervous being on their do-not-call list, it might also become a wait-an-hour-before-responding-to-911-call list. ;-)

Fear not. That's just a scam.

The way it works is that Scumbucket Telemarketing (but I repeat myself) sets up a fake "charity" in the name of the YourCityHere Police/Fire Department.

YourCityHere's cops get, maybe 5% of the take. Scumbucket Telemarketing gets the other 95%.

The scam is most effective when YourCityHere is a cash-strapped small town - the cops/firemen may be desperate, and 5% of a scammer's take is still better than nothing, and small towns often have a larger proportion of elderly (gullible) people to leech from.

Sadly, even when the FTC investigates/charges these scumbuckets, the fines rarely amount to more than a slap on the wrist, and the scamming continues.

If you really want to make a donation to your local services, the next time you get one of these scams, tell them you don't do business with telemarketers and hang up. Then go down to your local cop shop or fire department, tell them a scammer tried to pull this scam on you, and that you didn't fall for it, but that the scammer reminded you to give a little back to the community -- then ask how to make a donation so that 100% of your money goes to either the cops/firemen themselves, or to a legitimate charity of their choosing.

Re:Bit of info....

[pmz]

charities

Charities are among the biggest scum-bags of them all. I will never give to a charity that uses telemarketing as a begging tactic. I know where the charities are, if I want to make a donation.

Re:Bit of info....

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the allowed types of organizations are a lot more tolerable than someone trying to sell me into a book club.

No. The worst calls I get are from the Policemen's & Firemen's funds.

Re:Bit of info....

[mikeboone]

Beware of those police "charities." There might be some legit ones out there, but I've gotten calls from several who use professional fund-raising firms to call you and then the firm keeps 80% or more of the donation. And often the donation isn't even tax deductible.

Re:Bit of info....

[iabervon]

Where I live, the guy who calls for Patrolmen's donations sounds on the phone like you'd expect a local cop to sound (deep voice, local accent and idiom; the sort of voice that makes you expect a friendly but over-eager clap on the back). I wouldn't be too surprised if the caller wasn't a real police officer, but I think that friends or family are more likely than professional telemarketters.

Ticketting probably only applies to fund-raising speed traps in your town, since they actually care about people who are causing traffic hazards, and non-local cops don't care about your donation anyway. In my town, at least, traps are largely aimed at people commuting through the town, anyway, so having a local parking sticker is probably just as good as a donation sticker.

Re:Bit of info....

[Lumpy]

A: No. Placing your number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most, but not all, telemarketing calls. You may still receive calls from political organizations, charities, telephone surveyors or companies with which you have an existing business relationship.

In other words... god help you if you have a Capitol one credit card....

they will hound you to death with their "partnet" companies because of this clause.

Also you cant opt-out with capitol one's telemarketing tactics.. you holding their card or having an account means you WANT their calls.

more credit card companies are doing this.... watch out, it's the back door.

Re:Bit of info....

[inteller]

oh it gets better....the telemarketers are teaming up with non profits like the cops and the firemen associations to sell you magazines if you make a "contribution" to them. I said "fuck you pig, you sellout whores!" That is the lamest way to get around this law and it infuriates me.

Re:Bit of info....

[hoggoth]

> lets tax the top 5%

Hey slacker, I'm one of the top 5% and I worked my ass off to get there. I already pay a lot more because a % of my income is a lot more than the same % of someone with lower income.
So stop looking for handouts or "revenge" against success.

If you don't like it go start your own company.

Re:Bit of info....

[fucksl4shd0t]

Most real police officers have better things to do with their time.

Yeah, like beating up niggers.

This is flamebait. Please, flame me, someone!

Re:Bit of info....

[A55M0NKEY]

I wonder how far someone could get with telebegging:

I am calling on behalf of the non-profit John Doe foundation. As someone who tries to be charitable and make the world a better place, we think you might be interested in making a small donation to the John Doe foundation. Your contribution would be tax deductable and you can be sure that over 99% of the money collected actually goes toward the John Doe foundation's cause. That makes the John Doe foundation a leader in efficient use of funds to make the world a better place.

Um, ok, I suppose I can donate $20.00, just one more thing, what kinds of things does the John Doe foundation do?

In this world, many people are faced with poverty and no means of support other than the charity of good people like yourself. The John Doe foundation believes that not only the necessities of life are due, but the little things like Italian sportscars, and mansions, even spending cash, can enrich the lives of these otherwise indigent people. Because there is only so much charity to be had, and money only goes so far, the John Doe foundation was created to concentrate it's fundraising powers on funding the enrichment of just one person, John Doe. Over the last year we have been able to buy John Doe, a palacial estate in southern California overlooking the ocean, a fleet of fast sexy cars, a yacht, a small dude ranch in Colorado, a private Jet, and almost a hundered million dollars in spending cash by concentrating the donations of millions of generous donors like yourself towards the enrichment of this poor unfortunate.

The John Doe foundation may not help as many people as some other larger charities, but can any of them match the quality of assistance that we provide? We urge you to open your wallet and your heart to John Doe. Give till it hurts.

$20.00 is all I can afford, I missed paying my cable bill this month. May I ask your name?

Certainly ma'am, I'm John Doe.

Re:Bit of info....

[sloth jr]

I think the allowed types of organizations are a lot more tolerable than someone trying to sell me into a book club.

I don't.

Charities suck ASS on the phone. Not only do I have to interrupt my life to deal with their plea, I get guilt tripped by saying no!

sloth jr

Re:Bit of info....

[snolan]

I've not had to tell a charity more than once.

I have had to tell WETA (the local public television station) many times. They were so annoying, that I ended up changing my phone number. The sad thing is I enjoy public television and liked to donate a small amount each year, but now I am morally obliged to let them rot. I contribute to WMPT (which I also get) and they have never called.

A few years after this happened I moved, and the WETA junk mail (regular U.S. Post) actually followed me to my new address. I guess they have a big budget for sending out junk mail and do not need my charitable contribution after all.

Re:Bit of info....

[evilviper]

Although a donation and the applicaiton of a sticker to your car may help keep you from getting ticketed (I believe it did me once)

Great! Now we have another idiot tax, other than just state-run lotteries...

Re:Bit of info....

[gears5665]

I'm one of the top 5%
I'm sorry that you are, and your post is the perfect example of the kind of person I don't mind taxing a whole lot more.

You probably have a lot of property that needs to be protected by the state if you make over 1 million $ in income per year. If not by our underpaid military, then by local police forces and crime prevention measures such as education. I see no reason why a poor man in the inner city should have to pay for your protection, he has no stake in society. You, however are vulnerable and are the minority.

For the future: a personal attack is a logical fallacy (non sequitur - ad hominem). You have no clue as to who I am or what my motivations are. You, on the other hand, are motivated by greed and wish to protect your "hard earned" assets which is understandable but against the interest of our society.

Re:Bit of info....

[hoggoth]

> You probably have a lot of property that needs to be protected ...
> a poor man in the inner city should have to pay for your protection, he has no stake in society

You couldn't be more wrong. A poor man in the inner city is much more likely to be the victim of crime. The inner city needs, and has, much more police protection and crime prevention measures, and even these are still not enough to protect the inner city poor.

The poor man doesn't pay for my protection, I pay for his.

I know I am probably responding to a troll, but I'll bite: You claim I cannot know anything about you from your statements, yet proceed to characterize me as motivated by greed. Apparently you also know nothing about me.

By the way, it is not against the interest of society to foster achievement by protecting the rewards of such. In the 'Harrison Bergeron' society that you promote we end up with the bankrupt Soviet Union where average people can't get basic goods, and yet the rich are still rich.

Re:Bit of info....

[gears5665]

The poor man doesn't pay for my protection, I pay for his.
If only this was true, I'd be a happier citizen. The reason the police are locally funded (and state police stay out of the cities) is so that people in wealthy neighborhoods don't have to support their fellow citizen, only exploit them.

I'm not trolling, you stated that you were wealthy and the fact that you were posting demonstrated your greed in your need to protect the status quo by convincing people that they too could have the "American dream" and by your denigration of my character (still unknown to you). "I have meat, you want to take my meat and give it to others, I fight you is a natural if short-sighted sequence of thought. Sequitor.

I don't aim to counter achievement, only foster a more balanced and socially responsible payout system. The majority of people in your position are not there through personal achievement and the minority who are will continue to prosper through strength of personal attributes despite the higher tax.

My goal is better lives for a greater % of people. Peace and prosperity for everyone. If you have to wait another year before buying another piece of property in order for 1,000 scared pregnant teenage crack addicts to get treatment (including abortion) and counselling I'll vote to tax you every time. The same goes for law enforcement, prevention programs, public education, and a national health system.

Do Not **** List

[Qantir]

When the Do not Spam list I'll sign up for that too.

Oh yeah, count me in for the do not mail list too! Do I really want to be disconnected from the rest of the world? No, but I'd apreciate it if I would only recive mail, e-mail and calls from companies that I've contacted first.

Useless...

[Bull999999]

I signed up for it but I still get calls from my in-laws.

Re:Useless...

[i.r.id10t]

The difference between in-laws and outlaws is that outlaws are wanted....

Re:Useless...

[The Old Burke]

Don't worry, there are some easy solutions for your problem.

Re:Useless...

[Odin's Raven]

Bull999999 quoth: I signed up for it but I still get calls from my in-laws.

Didn't you read the exemption list?

Brother-in-law: Bull, we're a little short on cash this month, could you lend us a bit to tide us over until payday?
DNC Status: Exempt, charity call

Brother-in-law: Bull, would you rather keep working in that dead-end programming job, or get a great job selling Amway products like I do?
DNC Status: Exempt, poll

Sister-in-law: Bull-wife, I don't know why you stay with that good-for-nothing man of yours. You ought to kick him out and look for a better partner. There's a guy in my AA meeting who's an ideal candidate.
DNC Status: Exempt, political campaign

Mother-in-law: Bull, my daughter deserves someone better than you.
DNC Status: Exempt during first 18 months of marriage (purchased product from caller).

Re:Useless...

[Bull999999]

I'd mod you funny but I can't mod my own thread...

Re:Useless...

[WinDoze]

Caller ID, man. My wife is amazed at how every single last time her mom calls and she's not home to take the call, I'm in the can. I think she's starting to worry about my digestive issues.

Re:Useless...

[fucksl4shd0t]

Caller ID, man. My wife is amazed at how every single last time her mom calls and she's not home to take the call, I'm in the can. I think she's starting to worry about my digestive issues.

That's alright, dude, at least you get out of it. 5 out of 6 times my idiot mother-in-law calls my wife isn't home, and the woman drips with disbelief when I tell her "They're not home right now." Then I tell my wife, and my wife says "I don't want to talk to that bitch." So we go through this cycle where every 3-4 months her mother accuses me of trying to get between her and her daughter by not telling my wife when the bitch calls. But I tell her every time! Get it through your head, stupid lady, your daughter doesn't like you. I don't like you either! You just watch yourself. We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on 12 star systems.

Re:U.S. Law...

[chasjeep]

Ive already gotten several calls from Canada - Im sure that wont stop.

great

[Cyn]

Excellent reminder slashdot - thanks - I'd hate to miss out with the deadline only 2 days away... now I'll just hop on over to the site.... oh hmm well it's not responding. Oh well, I'm sure it'll be back before the deadline - I mean, it's not like it got slashdotted.

Oh.

Re: great

[er_col]

Actually it is still responding. So instead taking them down /. is going to get them another 41 million registrations during the time the story is on the front page! (myself counted :-)

Re:U.S. Law...

[Saganaga]

Only the Chinese telemarketers will be calling you at 3 am, since that's when they are working!

Mark My Words

[not_a_george]

October 2.. any city, USA
I hope no one needs to go to the unemployment office. Poor telemarketers..

Re:Mark My Words

[Zigg]

I hope they go out and find respectable jobs, rather than providing labor for a scum industry.

Re:Mark My Words

[Tackhead]

> I hope they go out and find respectable jobs, rather than providing labor for a scum industry.

Hell, even the filthiest crack whore provides a service that someone's willing to pay $10 for, which makes them vastly more useful than telemarketers.

Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Peter Simpson]

(from the US census) Now, I realize that's probably not a valid comparison, there are probably many more phones than "households", but it's got to be close (within an order of magnitude?).

That means 50% of the households don't want junk phone calls. I'd say that's a pretty big "get stuffed" to the telemarketing industry.

And those are only the ones that cared/figured out/remembered to sign up!

Congress & FTC...are you listening?

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Sphere1952]

"That means 50% of the households don't want junk phone calls. I'd say that's a pretty big "get stuffed" to the telemarketing industry."

That means 50% of the households don't want junk phone calls so badly they rushed to sign up the instant they heard about it.

You get 50% doing anything in the U.S. and that means there's 49% that just didn't get around to it.

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Peter Simpson]

Like I said, it's probably off, but not by more than a factor of 3.

BTW, telemarketing to cell phones is federally prohibited now. I have never gotten a telemarketing call to my cell, and I believe there is a bit in the number assignment record that defines pay/hotel/business/cell/residence/etc, so that list is apparently already being checked.

But yes, I signed up my cell, too, simply because the web site says you can. Nevertheless, 40+ million phone numbers is enough to make a very clear point!

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Bigbutt]

Our household has three telephone numbers (two cell and one house). I put all three in way back at the beginning.

So maybe dividing the 41 million by 2 or 3 would be a better match for "households"

So it's closer to 15% than 50% even presuming every person in the US has a phone.

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Lord_Dweomer]

"You get 50% doing anything in the U.S. and that means there's 49% that just didn't get around to it."

For a grand total of 99% of all households? Don't you mean 50%?

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Kjella]

Yes, but assuming those 50% left will get the same total number of calls (they don't downsize that fast, usually), I think they might get the idea...

Kjella

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[lylum]

1% are telemarketers and old people who still want to receive those calls. My guess is probably even more than that.

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[Kallahar]

it's 41 million *numbers* not people, I signed up for three numbers myself.

There are 319 area codes (http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/users/bsy/area.html), times 10,000,000 in each set (or so) gives 319,000,000 potentially valid numbers.

So still impressive, but not necessarily anywhere near 50% of the households in the US...

Re:Out of a total 110 million "households"

[SageLikeFool]

I thought in the U.S. if 50% of the people believed one thing that meant 50% beleived in the exact opposite and then it was up to the supreme court to decide what was best for everybody...

In Other News...

[SnowDeath]

Wow, can you believe it - 41 million people have signed up for this thing, I know I did.

In other, unrelated news, the FBI has gotten approval to electronically eaves drop on approximately 41 million phone lines from the Department of Fatherlan...errr Homeland Defense.

Re:In Other News...

[redtape]

41 million numbers, this could be a significantly lower number of people... Matbe the word hasn't spread far enough yet...

Well..

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it hasn't worked. It doesn't come into effect until October 1st!

Re:Well..

[CrazyTalk]

True - but the PA one should be in effect now.

In other news

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

The government has managed in a surprisingly small amount of time to compile a database linking phone numbers and email addresses with 41M entries.

I'm sure it'll be used only for opt-in telemarketting. I mean, what else could be done with such a database?

Re:In other news

[aardvarkjoe]

You've got me. What could be done with a database of email + phone numbers?

Now, what's really frightening is that somebody has created a database linking phone numbers with names and home addresses. Imagine all the horrible things that could be done with this.

Re:In other news

[zptdooda]

You've got me. What could be done with a database of email + phone numbers?

All right, say a email monitoring system finds a email/thread that's suspicious. If one came from a person one the list, then crossreferencing it with your whitepages gives an address and maybe a knock on the door.

This list might also help by mapping members in a questionable discussion thread to a geographical area.

Re:In other news

[aardvarkjoe]

If you signed up for this using an e-mail address that you use anonymously, you're a complete idiot and deserve what you get. Most e-mail addresses aren't anonymous anyway, and so this doesn't help create a database.

Re:In other news

[ronmon]

Yeah, that's why I used my disposable yahoo email address. Isn't that's what they are for?

Re:In other news

[heironymouscoward]

Telephone numbers are a quick way to lookup name and address.

This means the government has 41m email addresses that it can reverse-lookup into physical identities.

Any email address supplied to this database can be instantly turned into a name, address, and telephone number when used in another context.

Hope this is fine with everyone involved. Personally, I don't like the idea of my Internet aliases turning into midnight knocks on the door.

Do, if you have a second, rent the movie "Punishment Park". Quite the little shocker. And entirely relevant.

Re:In other news

[imnoteddy]

If you really want to know what Bush and Ashcroft will do look here.

Re:In other news

[zptdooda]

Well after watching a few minutes of some show on Fox's lineup, I think the intersection set of criminals and idiots might not be null.

Re:In other news

[2short]

"Any email address supplied to this database can be instantly turned into a name, address, and telephone number"

Make up your mind, are you paranoid or not? I mean, you sound a lot more paranoid than me, but I would have assumed any government agency interested in matching an email to an address wouldn't have any big problem even before this. And are you really going to claim to be a self respecting paranoid while admitting you don't understand how to use different email adresses in different contexts?

Re:In other news

[Kurt Gray]

Oh no! Now the government can link my cell phone number with my hotmail email address! Shit! They got me! Pretty soon they'll have my SS#, my employment history, my tax returns, my speeding tickets... oh wait... they already do.

Seriously though, I sort of agree with your hesitation here. I tend not to volunteer myself into a database. My hesitation with this one is what happens if this do-not-call list somehow gets involved in lawsuit or some sort of government re-org and as a result turns into a call-me-anytime-all-the-time list? What happens if Congress decides that it's OK for the government and political orgs to use the list to conduct surveys and broadcast political messages... then Congress decides to get a little extra revenue by selling the list to political interest groups... then telemarketers sue saying their message also deserves to broadcast on the list and some court agrees with them... or unscrupulous telemarketers somehow get access to the list then take it overseas and dial the shit out of it from an offshore spamming operation run by Dr. Evil... and I'm not suggesting this is all a big spammer conspiracy but I'd hate to see this turn into a Bad Thing.

Before I sign up I'd like to wait and see and hear some feedback from those who are on the list... are you getting more or less calls now?

Re:In other news

[Skapare]

Oh yeah? I did the signups for family and friends, and created a new email address for each one, given only for that purpose and no other. I can dispose of those email addresses. But I'll leave them there for now and see how long it takes before they are abused.

Re:In other news

[aardvarkjoe]

Well, more to the point, do you really think that an idiot would have an anonymous e-mail address in the first place? (Just signing up for a hotmail address with a false name -- a precaution which most people don't take -- isn't enough to be called anonymous. You have to worry about them logging your IP address and all sorts of fun stuff.)

I think that all this stuff about "big bad government compiling a list" is ridiculous. I simply cannot think of a plausible scenario where this would give the government access to information that they would not have already had, or could not obtain through more direct channels.

Re:In other news

[Generic Guy]

The government has managed in a surprisingly small amount of time to compile a database linking phone numbers and email addresses with 41M entries.

I would rather mark it down as scary, since IIRC it was AT&T which won the contract to set up and handle this initial database. Something around US$3 million. Yes, that's right: One of the worst telemarketers is in charge of the anti-telemarketing list!

Re:In other news

[evilviper]

what else could be done with such a database?

Oh no, they have my phone number now, and know that I am annoyed by telemarketers.

I'm sure they'll stop by my house (as well as the homes of thousands of others) when a door-to-door salesman is brutally beaten within 20 miles of my home.

What else can do with a huge list of telephone numbers?

Holy Crap.

[SatanicPuppy]

41 million? Wow. So that says that 1 in 7 americans hates the fricking telemarketers enough to go through the effort AND that same 1 in 7 is with it enough to know about the no call list.

Logically, since this is an interesction of 2 groups, there have to be 2 larger groups, one who hates the telemarketers, but doesn't know about the list or how to get on it, and one that knows about the list, but either doesn't mind the telemarketers, or is too lazy to get on the list.

Interesting. I always thought the proportion of stupid, lazy, and uneducated people was larger than 6/7ths.

Re:Holy Crap.

[afidel]

actually it's WAY higher than 1 in 7, it's 41 million numbers, which given an average of 3.5 people per household is nearly half the nations home phone numbers. Of course this is squed by people listing multiple numbers but close enough.

Re:Holy Crap.

[SatanicPuppy]

Wow, yer right! Guess that's what I get for not RTFA. Wow. Either telemarketers are far far far more loathed than I ever suspected, or far far far more americans are with it than I ever suspected.

Re:Holy Crap.

[jdgreen7]

Well, I just registered 15 numbers - all of our incoming lines to the company I work for, plus my cell phone and home number. The site only allows 3 numbers per email address, so the best way around it is to register at SpamHole with number of different addresses, all forwarding back to a Hotmail or Yahoo account.

So, the 41 million doesn't really tell a whole lot in terms of how many numbers there are in the country versus the number of people. I'm sure there's a way to find out, though. Anyone have any ideas?

41 Million

[Andrewkov]

Wow, 41 million names and phone numbers .. I'd sure like to get my hands on that list!

Regards;
Your friendly neighboorhood spammer.

More calls

[tiny69]

Even though it goes into effect on 8/31, the number of telemarketer calls has gone up since I've signed up. Surprise, surprise..... The telemarketers have a new and verified list of people to call. Kind of like yelling down the hallway of a college dorm that you are trying to sleep and then wonder why everyone that walks by bangs on your door. My only fear is that someone will sue to have Do-Not-Call list stopped from going into affect.

Re:More calls

[wampus]

Odd, I signed up for Wisconsin's DNC list last year and haven't gotten anything but misguided charities.

"Do you agree that in these troubled times we need the government to provide better security for us and our loved ones?"

"No."

"Well, many people do. Give us money!"

"Why would I do that? I don't WANT to live in a police state!"

Seriously, why would telemarketers WANT a list of 41 million people who have stated that they do not want telemarketing calls? Do they think they have good odds of making some sales? Are they going to recoup their $11000 per infraction fines on a few vinyl siding sales?

Re:More calls

[kiwaiti]

Since it will only take effect one month after the registration deadline, and they get it at once if they want to, they'll have at least one month's leisure to legally call you. If you miss the deadline by a day, they'll find you by comparing the current list to the one from 8/31, and know they have nearly 4 months to drive you crazy.

Kiwaiti

Re:More calls

[nytes]

It's probably not because you signed up. I only signed up today (when I saw the reminder that the deadline was near), but I've noticed a marked increase in calls over the last couple of months.

I've especially noticed an increase in those pre-recorded calls, which are illegal where I live (California).

Re:More calls

[fucksl4shd0t]

"Why would I do that? I don't WANT to live in a police state!"

Didn't you say you live in Wisconsin? I don't find those two statements to be consistent... Perhaps you don't like Wisconsin?

Re:Rights?

[CashCarSTAR]

Provide a good product at a good price.

Word of mouth will do the rest (usually)

Watch out for the new ticks

[_LORAX_]

Be wary of the following if you have signed up for the list.

• Freebies: Often they come with the fine print that you exempt yourself from the list for 18 months.
  
• Sweepstakes: Ditto
  
• Checkout phone requests: If you give them your # they can call you
  
• Many many other tricks
  

Basicly there are only a few cases where you can legitimatly recieve calls.

• Charities
  
• Politicians
  
• To set up a personal meeting where no selling occurs over the phone
  

So just watch the fine print on anyhting that you put your phone # on or you could end up making the DNC list useless.

Re:Watch out for the new ticks

[esper]

Um... Those aren't "tricks". They're part of the law governing the registry. From the FAQ on donotcall.gov:

Even if you put your number on the National Do Not Call Registry, a company with which you have an established business relationship may call you for up to 18 months after your last purchase or delivery from it, or your last payment to it, unless you ask the company not to call again. (In that case, the company must honor your request not to call. If they subsequently call you again, they may be subject to a fine of up to $11,000.) Also, if you make an inquiry to a company or submit an application to it, for three months afterwards the company can call you. If you make a specific request to that company not to call you, however, then the company may not call you, even if you have an established business relationship with that company.

Your conclusion is correct, but doesn't quite go far enough - don't give any personal information to a company you don't want calling you. Fine print has nothing to do with it and they can probably get your phone number if they have any of your other information.

Re:Watch out for the new ticks

[danila]

Freebies: Often they come with the fine print that you exempt yourself from the list for 18 months.
Sweepstakes: Ditto

Who in their right mind doesn't understand that? :) If someone is stupid enough to fall for these tricks, they deserve to get telephone harrassment. There is such thing as free lunch, but most lunches ain't it. :)

Re:Watch out for the new ticks

[Cthefuture]

I believe it goes deeper than that as well.

It is the whole "previous business relationship" thing. I'm sure companies will just "partner" with each other and then bam, you've directly had business with just about any company that wants to spam you.

The only way to solve that would be to not do business with any company at all (ie. not possible).

I still think that even with this new do-not-call list you're still going to get a bunch of calls. And still, the best thing to do is ask to be put on their do-not-call list because then they really can't call you no matter what previous relationship you've had with them.

Re:Watch out for the new ticks

[Generic Guy]

Basicly there are only a few cases where you can legitimatly recieve calls. * Charities * Politicians * To set up a personal meeting where no selling occurs over the phone

You forgot airlines and banks.

/me predicts banks in the near future to quickly expand into "telephone services" for outside business clients.

Amazing...

[miyako]

41 million people chose not to get phone-spam.
Given the average level of apathy and general lazyness among the american public, the fact that more than a few hundered thousand signed up should really show the telemarketers (and spammers) how screwed up their business model is.
Now we just need a national "do not spam" list; or better yet, there should be some obscenely high fee for every email over a certain number (something high enough that legitimate businesses wouldn't have to worry about it, let alone home users, but enough to kill spam).
</offtopic>
My question is, how well does this really work. I do not have a home phone (cell phone and IM work just as well); but my grandma signed on for a similar thing offered by the state (MO) before it went national, and it seemed as almost every telemarketer had found a loophole in it.

Re:Amazing...

[geekoid]

no, we need to fine the companies that knowingly sell bandwidth to spammers and spamhaus.

Re:Amazing...

[nytes]

my grandma signed on for a similar thing offered by the state (MO) before it went national, and it seemed as almost every telemarketer had found a loophole in it.

I realize that you are probably not a lawyer, but can you summarize (or guess at) the loophole they used? I'm wondering if the national list will have a similar vulnerability.

Re:Amazing...

[miyako]

Well, the biggest loophole I heard was:
"This is not a solicitation call but...<insert solicitation>"

Re:Amazing...

[nytes]

Hmm. I figure that something similar will be used (or at least tried) with the national list:
"Hello, I'm taking a poll. Would you like to have 3 rooms of carpet cleaned for only $45?"

i wonder

[segment]

when is slashdot going to make a 'do not troll' list ... then again wonder if the open source community is going to make a 'do not sco' list...

if sleep <= .00001
then
exit

States are adding en-mass

[peterdaly]

I know New York State added their entire existing state wide do not call list into the national one.

If many states are doing that it is not suprising the number is that high.

-Pete

Re: DNC list

[blibbleblobble]

41 million people hate telemarketing calls enough to put themselves on a list, out of only
300 million people in the U.S. (apparently 94% of those have telephones, but presumably that counts telephones shared between a family?)

It would be interesting to see how many people signed up for a please do call list... I suspect less than this 1.4%!

It's not ending; it's just updated quarterly

[Animats]

It's "business-friendly" - the database only gets updated every quarter. If you sign up next week, you get into the next quarterly update.

Argues for a National-Please-call list

[goombah99]

Given this is close to half the housholds in america, and is only the people with the energy to actually make the effort to register, it seem pretty clear that the default assumption should be opt-out not opt-in. Indeed I cant think of a clearey more convincing way to demonstrate this than this very fact.

The needs to be a national please-phone-spam me list. you could even make it valuable to telemarketers and raise money too by

1) selling this list to them.
2) having sub categories on the list for various types of calls the recipiuent welcomes such as

i) get rich quick
ii) Roofing companies only in your area this week
iii) "free" vacations in a condo time share.
iiii) changing your phone company
iv) call me if I'm already an instant winner

Re:Argues for a National-Please-call list

[jesser]

Your roman numeral list isn't right. iiii = iv = 4 (iv is preferred).

Re:Rights?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Remember at school when your mom bought you that T-shirt you thought was so cool, but nobody looked at you in the playground, then you started to say "hey look at my new T-shirt, ain't that cool, hey hey ?? hey ?" and they all ended up avoiding you after you told them 5 times ?

Well, telemarketting is the same : if you had cool products, you wouldn't need to call people to sell them and annoy the living shit out of everybody.

working around it..

[joeldg]

They are already working around it..
I get calls still..
it is ridiculous that it is so bad that one sixth of the entire country is so pissed about it they have signed up and now they are working around it and changing their lead-ins...

*sigh* . and I have noticed a marked increase in "physical" spam in my mailbox as well..

Re:working around it..

[zdislaw]

I get calls still..

The list doesn't go into effect until October 1, 2003.

Re:working around it..

[joeldg]

well that would explain it..

hrm..

guess they are trying to get in as many of those last calls as they can then..

Re:Rights?

[John Seminal]

Yep,

That is correct. Plus, don't the advertisers have enough places to market their products? Isn't TV and the newspaper and magazines good enough. Now they even have posters of advertising at a local shopping mall. And the last time I installed a game on my pc, during the instal all the other games the company makes was advertised. How many places are there to cram advertising?

I will also be signing up for the do not call list.

That's great but...

[tha_mink]

"The first wave of the do not call registry sign up ends 8/31. There is plenty of news coverage but they say there is already over 41 million numbers registered."

Now if only there was a "Do not Email" registry.

Re:That's great but...

[m0smithslash]

There can't be a Do Not Spam list as the spammers are not so well behaved as the telemarketers. Believe it or not, the telemarketers consider themselves good citizens and are really providing the world a wonderful service. There is an organization and they can be regulated through phone line access.

The spammers cannot be regulated in the same way because there is no way to regulate internet access in the same way. So a Do Not Spam list would really be a Spam Me Lots list. See SpamGourmet to help reduce the spamming

Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[kaltkalt]

and don't forget it. The DMA is up there with al Queda. It boggles my mind that the DMA is allowed to exist in this country. Child pornography causes less damage and is less offensive than direct marketing (euphamism for directly bothering people incessantly to buy crap that nobody wants, needs, or even desires). If kiddie porn is not protected by free speech (which it is not) then direct marketing should not be, either. I'm not even talking about spam, which of course is not protected by free speech. I mean using telemarketers, door-to-door sales, snail-mail, and sticking fliers on my front door. Buy a billboard, buy a TV commercial (and don't complain when i skip it with Tivo), or buy a newspaper/magazine ad. If you're not willing to do those things, hope your product sells by word of mouth. If it is good and useful, it most likely will. If it's a piece of shit, it doesn't deserve to sell a single unit. In the meantime, the direct marketing association terrorists continue to flock to our mailboxes and front doors, and continue to terrorize us via the phone while we're eating dinner. They should all be nuked.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[geekoid]

A good start is a PO Box, and a big ass dog. Go ahead, try to stick that damn menu on my door...

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[fname]

Let's start at the top. The U.S. does not make any political party or business association illegal-- I mean, there's an American Nazi party, NAMBLA, and a whole bunch of honest-to-goodness evil people out there. Basically, only groups dedicated to overthrowing the government are outlawed. Others might get there assets frozen or be punished for engaging in illegal conduct, but you don't go to jail for being a member.

Second, kiddie porn is illegal not b/c it's obscene, but because it's harmful to minors. Not in the CDA, COPA or CIPA way (i.e., if kids see naked chicks they'll be harmed), but in the very real sense that some sick bastard made these kids engage in sexual acts, and then photographed or videotaped it. Kiddie porn is unprotected for a very good reason, and in a very real sense, is not comparable to any other kind of media.

Alas, if we want to make direct marketing illegal, we certainly can try. But you can do many things to avoid these pitched. Like get an unlisted number, and don't give it out. Same with your mailing address, and request your name be removed from marketing lists. And put up a sign that says "no soliciters/ no trespassing" on your entry way, or build a gate.

Commercial speech is protected by the 1st amendment. The government would have a damn hard time outlawing all direct marketing, unless you want to change the 1st amendment more to your liking. Until then, we'll all be exposed to marketing, both direct and indirect. Oh well.

It boggles my mind that our leaders and our people think they can score points by linking terrorism with some group with whom they disagree. Terrorists are the new Nazis.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[kaltkalt]

I'm not saying make a party illegal because of their beliefs, I'm saying this group, the DMA, is like a kiddie porn ring with a 3-letter acronym. Or a better example is a warez group. RiSC, Razor1911, PWA, etc. It's not the beliefs of the group which make it illegal, it's the purpose of the association. Warez groups are illegal because, by definition, they pirate software. The Direct Marketing Assoc, much the same, exists solely to terrorize people. That is why the group is a criminal enterprise. RICO laws should be used to shut them down if the government is too scared to use the Patriot Act.

The only difference between al Queda and the DMA is that the DMA has paid lobbyists working in washington.

There is no way to fight direct marketing as long as it is legal. Unlisted numbers don't work. Trust me, I have one. The National Do Not Call list will not work either. This is like telling israelis they can stop Hamas by wearing bulletproof vests when they leave the house. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in real life.

Commercial speech is indeed protected by the first amendment, but a content-neutral time/place/manner regulation such as forbidding direct marketing only entails intermediate scrutiny, and considering the destruction direct marketing is causing on our lives and environment, a complete ban would pass intermediate constitutional scrutiny without a sweat. There will still be plenty of legal forums for advertising. Just not our homes or places of work.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[fname]

Your point is taken-- these marketers harass us at every oppurtunity without considerations of their actions; but I think you need to look up the word terrorism. It's defined at Dictionary.com as:

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

I prefer to think of it in simpler terms, roughly defined as violence against civilians for political purposes. While marketing is aimed at civilians, it's mostly apolitical, and does not employ violence. Now, if you consider getting a phone call at home to be violence, you might be able to lump it in. Of course, then anyone making a phone call would be committing a criminal act.

So, maybe a law could be passed outlawing direct marketing that would withstand constitutional muster; now try to define the difference between word of mouth and marketing. What if Sprint offers $20 for every new customer I refer-- am I violating the law to tell my parents about their calling plans. I guess a judge can decide.

It's obvious you have a sincere belief that direct marketing is wrong and should be outlawed. I just think you're sabotaging your argument and opeing yourself to ridicule by branding them a terrorist group. They just don't fit the definition.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[kaltkalt]

I think "violence" is broad enough to encompass sending penis and tit spam to everyone 1000 times a day. Calling me during dinner is violence against humanity. It's like walking up to a person and throwing a bucket of diarrhea on their face -- violence doesn't have to involve guns or blood. If any rational human wouldn't want it done to them, it's violence when so done. Most of what they do is unlawful, and if it's not technically unlawful that is only the result of powerful lobbying agencies, not social mores. I stand by my statement that the DMA is a terrorist organization. Their goal is to make sure you cannot be left alone in your home or place of work.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[fname]

Geeze, just call me Webster. But here's how they define violence:

"Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing"

Now, you can lump in Al-Queda & the DMA if you want. But the DMA isn't a terrorist organization by any stretch of any definition. There may be a better word for it that better describes your sentiments. But as it stands your argument essentially boils down to, "I don't like the DMA. Terrorism is bad. The DMA is a terrorist group."

Calling the DMA a terrorist group undermines your entire argument and only serves to make you appear adamant, foolish & stubborn.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[kaltkalt]

my dictionary has other definitions for "violence" which seem to fit better than that one. "Abusive or unjust exercise of power" is how I would label their actions as violence.

Re:Direct Marketing Association = terrorist org.

[kaltkalt]

everyone has the power to communicate with another person via telephone, email, or snail mail. Abusing that power is what direct marketing is. It's not something I don't like, it's something everyone doesnt like, even those few direct marketers we've seen get spammed via email or snail mail. Nobody likes it for any length of time. Look how many people signed up for the do not call list. At one point i recall 10 people a second were signing up. When China does a DOS attack on our computers, it is electronic/"cyber" terrorism. I don't see how that's terrorism if what the DMA does is not. Nobody likes it, it bothers everyone who is a recipient, nobody other than the terrorists support it, it costs our economy millions of dollars (namely spam), and everyone wants it to stop. It's terrorism. A non-lethal form of terrorism, I'll grant you, but terrorism nonetheless.

Good.

[mrseigen]

The Canadian government should come out with a similar program, or at least one that functions properly (which may be hard for them, we may have to obtain licenses to use our phones leading to a cost overrun, etc.).

I can't see a problem with how all the telemarketing companies are complaining about not having any money left. To me, they're just as bad as spammers and deserve to be cracked down just as hard.

I sincerely hope this works as a wakeup call, not just for the telemarketing industry, but for the whole of North America when we start to realize how bloody annoying all forms of advertising are. I know I'd like to see more television than ads when I sit down to watch something.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[mikewolf]

the problem is that everyone wants their phone number listed in the phone book... you can still have your phone number not listed, and then you dont' get many telemarketing calls at all, but the problem is that when your old college roommate you lost touch with is coming to town for the weekend, they can't get your number.

i'm sorry to tell you, but it is a nuisance to recieve commercial calls at home. I don't want to buy anything over the phone, ever. When i want to buy something, i will buy it. I don't want unwarranted solicitations, period.

Help the elderly!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sign up your parents/grandparents/miscellaneous old people that you know. They probably don't know about the list, and they're easy prey for telemarketers.

Re:Help the elderly!

[gears5665]

Why not just go through the phone book and sign everyone in it up? That would be the greatest present to give to a complete stranger.

Re:Rights?

[inimicus]

And "millions in lost potential revenue due to lost potential customers" infringes on the "RIGHT to make money" how, exactly? Admittedly, it infringes on their ABILITY to make money, but it doesn't touch their right to do so. Admittedly, it will force many telemarketers to change their business practises and/or models.

So what?

Whose rights are more important? The consumers' implicit right to have people leave them alone if they want to be left alone, or the companies' right to make money?

I can't suggest a better way to reach customers. But the people who've listed their numbers are stating, in no uncertain terms, that they have no interest in becoming customers - I'd think that winnowing the list of potential customers down would actually increase the success-to-call ratio. Certainly it will make the entire telemarketing more efficient, as a lot of people who've pre-dertermined that they aren't interested in sales cold-calls have removed themselves from the list of cold-calls to make...

Re:U.S. Law...

[nuggz]

Sure it will.
If they break US law, they can be punished. To make money from calling the US, they have to do some sort of business there. The US gov will just attack that.

How much does it help against offshore companies?

[Mr. Flibble]

This Company has an office in my town, and there was a similar one in the town I lived in before. Telephone services for the United States seem to be popping up all over in Canada. I belive that the above mentioned company also has offices in Indonesia and elsewhere. Given that this do not call list functions in the U.S., how can it be applied to other countries? Won't the telemarketers just start calling from outside the U.S. ??

Re:Rights?

[Anonymous Coward]

America, not only do business have the right to an opportunity to make money, they have the RIGHT to make money.

So nice if you to join us, Mr. Valenti.

I have bought things from telemarketers

[peeping_Thomist]

At least two or three different times, I bought a subscription, for a very low price, to a magazine I already had a special interest in. And I once hired a pest control company that cold-called me, because I knew other people who had used them and were happy, and the special they offered was quite good.

That handful of satisfactory purchases, however, never made up for the deluge of garbage calls. I signed up for the do not call list as soon as it became available.

I regret that I won't any longer occasionally receive a call offering something I want at a great price. But I'm happy to forego that if it mean no more annoying calls.

Too bad there's no way to limit telemarketers to only calling you about items you might be interested in -- say through specifying some preferences.

Re:I have bought things from telemarketers

[Esion Modnar]

That handful of satisfactory purchases, however, never made up for the deluge of garbage calls

It just occurred to me that the deluge is similar to the /. effect, from the telemarketers perspective.

They cold-call somebody, get a big fuck-you from most people, and 1/100 actually says OK.

They then share this number with all the other telemaketers ("Hey, we have a live one!") and they all call this poor person, rushing him like pigs at slop time.

And if this person puts cause and effect together, he gets on the do-not-call list ASAP. No more "live one."

Re:I have bought things from telemarketers

[superpulpsicle]

Damn this is not the comedy channel. My stomach is hurting from laughing so damn hard.

Do Not call list

[nuggz]

I don't know what the URL is, my wife did it.
But it doesn't cover anyone.
However if you ask to be put on the do not call list they can not call you. I don't even think there is a waiting period.

So without even saying anything if I know it is a telemarketer I just say "put me on your do not call list and the do not call list for this call center"
If you say you're not interested they will hang up before you can demand being removed from the list.

41M people that want privacy just registered into

[trolman]

a database that the government can use as it pleases.

From the disclosure;
In other circumstances, including requests from Congress, Freedom of Information Act requests from private individuals or companies, during litigation, for routine agency uses subject to the Privacy Act, or under our access and public record rules, we may be required or authorized by law to disclose the information you provide.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[dex22]

The right to freedom of speech includes the right to freedom FROM speech.

Here is how one guy got 'em good...

[twoslice]

Tom Mabe

He went to a telemarketing convention and got a hotel room under an assumed name, dialed up rooms at random trying to sell them shit in the wee hours of the morning. He has produced a CD on it and it is quite funny to see telemarketers really pissed at him...

Re:Rights?

[carbon3C]

What about the rights of the individual to NOT ANSWER or to HANG UP on telemarketers. What about the right of the individual to block the intrusion in the first place? I never never never answer my phone when it says "Out of area". Should marketers have the right to turn on your TV set any time of the day so they can share their ads with you?!?!? According to your twisted view of things, it sounds like they should. The cost of productivity due to telemarketer interruptions is so high that we should be allowed to sue for damages. Give me a break. Since when do rights allow others to encroach upon another individual or his property against his will?

List distribution

[kmahan]

So how does the government distribute this list to the telemarketers? "Here's a DVD with 41 million phone numbers of people" -- which they then use to seed their own databases? Is the government going to include our email addresses?

Re:List distribution

[Skapare]

Is the government going to include our email addresses?

I used disposable addresses for myself, family, and friends. I'll keep them active for now (all forward to me) and see if they do get abused.

Need help remembering

[aliens]

I'm calling on the collective memory banks of /. to dig up a diagram I once saw that showed an extremely hilarious way to turn the telemarketting call into your own "telemarketting" question.

Thanks in advance if anyone remembers this.

Re:Need help remembering

[mercuryresearch]

I remember it as well. I think this is the one:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html

Re:Need help remembering

[aliens]

Thank you, I just wasn't thinking of the right words to use in Google.

Gonna print it out and put it on my fridge.

Door to door salesmen

[nuggz]

I just tell them in a calm cool voice.
"Never come back here again"

I like to think with all the people who get angry and yelling and swearing someone who is very firm and unemotional might be a bit more disturbing.

You could also insult their intelligence and the fact they can't read. I'm generally for treating them like the intrusive little shits they are.

And the be nice they're just doing their job crowd, they are forcing their presence on me, not the other way around.

Re:Door to door salesmen

[MImeKillEr]

You could also insult their intelligence and the fact they can't read. I'm generally for treating them like the intrusive little shits they are.


I've tried that before. Their argument : "I'm not selling anything"

No, you're handing out fliers for 'FREE' carpet cleaning, etc. Which only leads to your sending someone to my house for a hardline sales pitch.

I just usually tell them that they have no reason to be ringing my doorbell unless they're handing out wads of free cash, and without any strings attached.

Fortunately, no one's been dumb enough to attempt to block my closing the door in their face.

And the be nice they're just doing their job crowd, they are forcing their presence on me, not the other way around.

If only more people felt the same way.

Re:Don't need it

[MImeKillEr]

We've been pretty diligent about telling telemarketers to put us on their "Do not call list." My SO is also a Nazi about not giving out contact information (hell, she won't even give out zip codes to WorstBuy and CircuitShity.)

Nor will I. I don't sign the electronic pads when I pay with my debit.

Sure, they can get my info that way, but big deal. Who says its valid anyway?

When someone asks for a phone number, I just give them the main access number for CallNotes (512-302-1111). They can reach me if they can find out which mailbox is mine.

Who cares?

[RatBastard]

Who cares? No job is secure, ever. And more telemarketers have lost their jobs to firms outsourcing their jobs to India and other cheap-as-hell labor countries than will ever be efftected by a do-not-call list.

Tinfoil Hat Time

[Gothmolly]

Doesn't this come easily as a nice, convenient list of verified email addresses?
What would Microsoft's Sociologist make of this list?
Why raise your visibility to Uncle Sam (U.S.-centric reference, sorry)

Re:Rights?

[514x0r]

and anti-drug laws infringe on drug dealers rights to make money selling drugs.....

Got shell scripting?

[JiffyPop]

Am I the only person with a strong urge to write a program to put every number in the US on the list? :) A little wget in a loop, an email parser that waits for messages from register@donotcall.gov... would hardly be impossible.

That would be an incredibly huge finger to give the telemarketers

Re:Got shell scripting?

[cK-Gunslinger]

Sounds good in theory (you'd probably need your own domain, as each group of 3 numbers probably needs a unique email addy), but it would probably do more harm than good. It would probably be obvious that someone "cheated" and the TM's would petition the gov that the list is invalid and can't be used at all.

Why not just sign up all the numbers that affect you personally, and let eveyone else do the same?

Re:Got shell scripting?

[anethema]

Tho its kind of obvious, i think its an important thing. So maybe mod the parent up a bit:)

Because thats exactly what would happen. They would find out someone cheated and even if the telemarketers dont say anything, the govt might just thow the whole thing down the tubes.

Careful.

Re:Got shell scripting?

[evilviper]

A little wget in a loop, an email parser that waits for messages from register@donotcall.gov... would hardly be impossible.

Doesn't sound like you even have the ability to write something that simple... For your info, wget only downloads info, it can't be made to submit a form (unless there's a big new feature in their latest versions).

You would need to do it in perl, or maybe C/C++.

Re:Got shell scripting?

[andrewski]

You would need to do it in perl, or maybe C/C++.

You could do it in Smalltalk. You wouldn't NEED to do it in any language.

Re:Got shell scripting?

[evilviper]

Yes, yes. My point was just that shell-scripting wget isn't going to do the job.

And on that news

[krray]

I personally don't "buy into it" yet. So I seeded the list. I have one number that is always busy (I found a way to have literally COMPLETE silence during dinner :).

That number (which logs calls) added with one un-guessable email address were added.

For those wondering my solution: get a ISDN line in the US. It's automatically unpublished/unlisted for you for free (were with POTS you have to pay to be unlisted!). The first phone number/channel is simply busy. The second channel rings both lines -- and that's my home phone number.

Oh -- and when I make a call the CID/ANI info passed is, of course, the busy phone number. :)

After a year of proof that 847-854-0048 is not being bombarded with telemarketing attempts and no emails come to whatevertheemailmayormaynotbe@myhomedomain.com I'll actually sign up real phone numbers...

off topic, sig

[zelyan]

sudo sh -c "echo 127.0.0.1 slashdot.org >>/etc/hosts"

cd /var/www
wget -m 66.35.250.150
apachectl start

speeds your connection right up!

Re:Rights?

[zentec]

You are absolutely correct, corporations not only have the right to make money, they have the duty to their shareholders to do so.
However, they do not have the right to market to me using a method of which I'm responsible for nearly all of the cost.

Traditional advertising, such as radio, television and print has a quid pro quo relationship. I trade my time spent dealing with the advertisements. This doesn't exist. Telemarketers shift the costs to me because they are using my phone line, of which I have to pay to maintain. Not only that, they're stealing minutes of my time without any sort of quid pro quo.

There are no rights here, including free speech. Free speech doesn't mean you can beat down my door and intrude upon my home to spout your speech.

I'm sorry...

[gfxguy]

I'm failing to see why eliminating the jobs of people whose job it is to annoy other people is a bad thing. I'm just not seeing the downside, here.

Re:I'm sorry...

[fucksl4shd0t]

I'm failing to see why eliminating the jobs of people whose job it is to annoy other people is a bad thing. I'm just not seeing the downside, here.

Yeah, I really don't wanna have to resort to a B ark, especially since I'm a marketing consultant.

Re:Rights?

[hyperstation]

no, anti-drug laws infringe on drug users' rights to use drugs and make their own decisions.

Don't pick up

[KalvinB]

I have the cheapo service from AT&T with no voice mail and if I don't recognize the number, I don't pickup, check it with whitepages.com and if I can't determine who it is, I don't call back.

Telemarketers usually call from out of state so if you don't know who it is and it's not your areacode, just hang up on them.

As people call you who you do know, add them to your phone book to use as a white list.

Ben

Great source of telephone numbers

[W33dz]

I can't help but wonder how long it will take before some offshore telemarketing company uses this lovely list as a source for valid numbers? Yes, yes, it will be illegal. No, no, the man in Malaysia doesn't care, and the company selling the goods has deniability because the marketing is outsourced. FWIW, I signed up last month.

Re:Great source of telephone numbers

[Peyna]

Most of these numbers are already in phone books; so what's the difference?

Re:Great source of telephone numbers

[LordKronos]

Well, if they want to foot the bill for the long distance call, I'd be glad to sit on the phone with them for 10 minutes learning about their incredible credit card offer and the free gift I'll get for signing up (I won't sign up, but I'll listen).

Re:Great source of telephone numbers

[Snodgrass]

Q: Are telemarketing calls from overseas covered?

A: Yes. Any telemarketers calling U.S. consumers are covered, regardless of where they are calling from. If a company within the U.S. solicits sales through an overseas professional telemarketer, that U.S. company is liable for any violations by the telemarketer. The FTC can initiate enforcement actions against such companies.

The company is liable anyway.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[wampus]

I fail to grasp how someone not calling me to offer a service I invariably do NOT want will translate to longer hold times for customer service calls I DO want to make. It's not like my bank is going to call me up in the middle of dinner to ask if I happen to have any disputed charges on my debit card.

Besides, I WANT telemarketers unemployed... they can go back to turning tricks and selling crack on schoolyards. That way they are offering services that people want and use.

It's useless.

[xcham]

EVERYONE forgets that this legistlation does NOT CROSS BORDERS. Companies outside the USA (like in Canada or overseas) are not subject to this. Oopsie daisie. Call centers in Sudbury, Ontario will still be interrupting your dinner.

Re:It's useless.

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

"Call centers in Sudbury, Ontario will still be interrupting your dinner."

No. Whoever hired them will be on the hook, just as if they had done it themselves from inside the states.

the remaining 200,000 citizens...

[delorean]

... work for telemarketers and were not allowed to sign up or forfeit their jobs!

ba-dum-dum-bing!

Re:How much does it help against offshore companie

[geekoid]

some might, but there operating cost just went through the roof. Hom much more is it to make a call to a different country?

Re:U.S. Law...

[geekoid]

so your saying thweer going to sell a product using telemarketing when its going to cost them 5 bucks* a call?

*I don't know what the exact rate, but it is pretty expensive just to connect. If I get a telemarkiting call, This would really give me enough insentive to lead them on as long a possible.

try this...

[SoSueMe]

you can register to have your telephone numbers removed from marketing lists by mailing your request to the Canadian Marketing Association (CMA), P.O. Box 706, Don Mills, Ontario M3C 2T6, or faxing it to (416) 441-4062 or by completing the registration form at www.the-cma.org .

Found on the CRTC site

More effective than some list is:

[Atario]

Caller ID (so you can tell who's calling) plus Privacy Manager (so they can't get through with blocked ID) plus Voice Mail (so they can leave a message failing all else).

I have this combination. Works like a charm. (Check your particular phone company for their equivalent.)

Wrong

[geekoid]

"...you can still have your phone number not listed, and then you dont' get many telemarketing calls at all..."

You can by a book from the phone company that has EVERY phone number and address in it, just no names.

I think you need a business liscense to get it.

plus it cost money to be unlisted.

DNC list is too big? I have a solution!

[dcavanaugh]

Perhaps these "antiquated" systems would work much better if the government compiled a list of people WILLING to receive telemarkting calls. It would be a damn short list, and no "processing" would be required.

Re:Don't need it

[geekoid]

I don't sign the electronic pads when I pay with my debit.

you should be signing anything when you pay with debt. Just enter your pin.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[boarder]

"At the end of the day, you've taken away jobs and hurt the economy. That's why this is a bad idea."

That is the worst and most idiotic argument for telemarketing I've ever heard... and it is the exact one that telemarketers use.

Yes, it will take away jobs, but you know what? I don't give a crap. Screw those people for taking a job harassing me. It's called capitalism: the market doesn't want them, so they don't prosper. Would you complain if they made SPAM illegal?

As for hurting the economy, I doubt that will matter in the long term. Sure, there will be a lot of lost jobs; but they aren't highly skilled/trained jobs, so those people can move to any other unskilled labour position. The market will adjust.

41 million people DON'T WANT THEM CALLING! That's about as many people as voted for G.W.Bush. I'm on the DMA's no call list, and I still get calls... that shows their self-regulating DOES NOT WORK!

As a percentage...

[SandSpider]

That's 15%. Presuming there's a phone for every man, woman, and child alive as of the 2000 census.

=Brian

One small detail...

[dolson]

The NDNC list doesn't take effect until October... People who say "I am on the NDNC list and I'm going to sue you for $11000!!!!!1111111oneoneone" sound like uninformed idiots. I simply reply with "mmmk, if I call you after the NDNC list takes effect in October, you do that."

Re:Rights?

[princewally]

They have the right to make money. If they make something good, and I need/want it, I will buy it. They do not have the right to invade my life with telemarketers.
I signed up for the DNC, and that didn't hurt them financially in any way. I never buy anything from telemarketer, period. I only buy from door to door salesmen if they are kids and it's winter. Other than girl scout cookies and school fundraisers, if I want a product, I will either go to the store, or I will order it myself.

mirror

[Alpha_Nerd]

Dude; you're getting screwed

What advantages over the state do not call list?

[Mustang Matt]

I realize some states don't have a list, but Missouri's list has been nearly 100% effective. What advantages would there be for me to sign up on the national one?

I haven't signed up yet because the Missouri list is working and it's one less list my number is on for charities, etc.

Any thoughts?

Re:Do Not Mail List

[bunratty]

Go ahead and sign yourself up!

Free speech?

[ndogg]

Telemarketers have asked the federal courts to block the new rules, saying they violate their free speech rights.

Interesting, but I don't believe that the US Constitution gives people the right to force their speech upon unwilling listeners, which would include telemarketers and spammers.

That's nothing!

[WebMasterJoe]

I happen to know where you can find a DO CALL list that works probably just as well.

You did use SpamHole, right?

[marms]

You did have the foresight to open a SpamHole temporary email address to use when you submitted to the DoNotCall list, right? Seems pretty obvious to me.

--
Mike Arms

Re:Don't need it

[MImeKillEr]

Doh! Well, its a Visa/Debit card. I thought 'Debit/Visa' and typed 'debit'

Touche.

Yeah.

[dolson]

I know you hate telemarketing calls, and I hate them too, but I work there to pay my bills (hopefully temporarily), and some people do actually like telemarketers (doesn't make sense to me, but it's true).

Please, don't be rude about it... If you don't want to be called, you can do something about it without being an ass.

Here's what you do if someone calls you:

[telemarketer] Hi this is Dana calling on behalf of SBC...
[you] Hi Dana, I'm not really interested in any telemarketing calls... Can you tell me who it is that employs you?
[telemarketer] Yes, I work for TeleSpectrum.
[you] Okay Dana, can you put me on TeleSpectum's Do Not Call list, AND send me your DNC policy in the mail?
[telemarketer] Okay, I will do that.

That's as simple as it is, and you'll get a copy of the TeleSpectrum DNC policy, which states that if we violate your request, you can sue for X amount of dollars. So, the next time we call you, if it happens, it would look like this:

[telemarketer] Hi this is Jim calling on behalf of SBC...
[you] Hi Jim, I'm not really interested in any telemarketing calls... Can you tell me who it is that employs you?
[telemarketer] Yes, I work for TeleSpectrum.
[you] Okay Jim. I am supposed to be on TeleSpectum's Do Not Call list. Can I please speak with your supervisor?
[telemarketer] Okay, please hold the line.

Alternately, you could sign up online on as many call centers as you can ( example: http://telespectrum.com/ct_dnc_request.asp ) which would achieve the same basic effect.

Re:Yeah.

[AuMatar]

I'll stop being rude the instant you do. The fact that you call me to bother me and interrupt my family time makes you a prick. If you had the minimum amount of human decency, you wouldn't have taken a job that requires you to annoy, bother, and harass people. Seeing as you did, you deserve whatever you get.

Re:Yeah.

[All Names Have Been]

I know you hate telemarketing calls, and I hate them too but I work there to pay my bills...

I know you hate having your kneecaps pulled off with rusty pliers - I hate it too! - But the local mob boss said I had to and it pays my bills.

I wonder how much time I'd waste per day fucking around with your little "get me off the list" script. I get 12 calls a day from your peers. Seriously. It's so bad I don't answer the phone anymore unless I recognize the caller ID or someone I know leaves a message. The DNC registry can't come quick enough for me and I'll be glad when most of this "industry" of selling vinyl siding and double glazing goes tits up. Screw you all.

Re:Yeah.

[ErixTr]

Do that and also get tons of spam to the e-mail address you gave them to send their policy.

Re:Yeah.

[jcr]

Please, don't be rude about it...

Request denied.

When you use my equipment without my express prior permission to try to sell me something, I owe you no debt of courtesy, period. If I'm in a particularly good mood, I'll only give you one expletive at the end of "put me on your do not call list for all clients right *expletive* now.

Incidentally, I consider it a civic duty to make your job as a telemarketer as unpleasant as I can. It causes attrition, which increases the costs for the scum who employ you.

-jcr

Re:Yeah.

[TheOldFart]

You are absolutely right. If it wasn't by telemarketers I would have lost my job a long time ago. See... after talking to my manager, all I can think of is dropping napalms on some children orphanage (is there another kind?). But then, at the end of the day, every single day, I receive my dose of unsolicited calls from you. That's when I exercise my anger management:

[telemarketer] Hi this is Jemima calling on behalf of SBC...
[me] I don't use SBC. How would you like my cock up your fucking ass right now?
[telemarketer] You don't need to be so rude
[me] You don't need to fucking call me every fucking minute of the day you fucking, cock sucking whore.
[click]

It works wonder and you feel much better...

Please keep calling me. My manager appreciates how calm I am under so much pressure.

Re:Yeah.

[bardgirl]

Yeah, most people hate telemarketing calls, but I've made a decision not to take it out on the person calling me. Be calm and nice, it won't kill you. Lot's of people have to fall back on Plan B (or C, D, E...) and I am one of them. I'm not a telemarketer, but I could be, and if that's what I had to do to pay the rent, I wouldn't hesitate. So when the telemarketers call, I say I'm not interested, tell them to have a nice day, and hang up. A whole fifteen seconds out of my life... and the telemarketer who I'm sure hates her/his job doesn't get crapped on by yet another person.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

So I take it you never watch television because of how fucking rude the commercials are? And when you watch a movie, you don't look at what kind of soda someone is drinking or what kind of car they are driving? Advertising is in everything, I simply said how you could stop one form of it. If you have a problem with that, then fine, fuck you too.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

When I put someone on the do not call list, this is my entire script: "I will take your name off of our calling lists." Wow, what a long speech! I am looking for a new job. I have been looking for a job since I got here. This place was the first one to hire me. If you have work for me, then let me know, otherwise, shut up.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

Who said we email out our policy? We mail it to them. Do you know what mail is?

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

Most of the people I work with like being yelled at... Not sure why, but they do. So yeah, go ahead and tell everyone off if you want, because there are only a few people who don't like it, me being one of them. I asked politely, but if you're gonna be an ass about it, then fine, nothing I can do.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

The only problem is that when we disposition a call as "not interested" or "hung up" then your name stays on the list, and there's a good chance that we will call back. Just FYI.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

You know, the thing is, we are legally allowed to call between the hours of 8AM and 9PM. If you don't like it, contact your government, and get your laws changed.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, I eat babies for dinner, and I puke on the homeless.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

I disposition the call as whatever you say. If it gets redialed is up to the system, which I have no control over, so if you DON'T want to be called, SAY THAT. It's really not hard.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

I see your point, but you're still ignoring mine, which was that you can stop telemarketing calls, and I even told you how to do so. If you can't be arsed to do the simple steps required, then you deserve all the calls you get.

Re:Yeah.

[ErixTr]

What? Hundreds of advertising mails in our mailbox? That is sure better!

Re:Yeah.

[Chakde Phate!]

Why should they have to go through these 'few simple steps' in the first place? Firstly, as several people have mentioned, your script doesn't often work as the telemarketers just hang up or simply ignore what you've said.

Secondly, you are taking up peoples private time to offer them something which they have almost certainly received in the past. You say you enter into the system the callee's response (e.g. not interested)...what exactly makes your bosses think that if someone is not interested in double glazing they will suddenly become interested in two weeks. In fact, what makes your bosses think that if they are interested they won't just go to a window shop or look on the net, rather than waiting for some nice company to ring them pre-emptively. Please understand I'm not taking this out on you personally...it's more the whole culture of telemarketing.

Living in the UK, we've had the Telephone Preference Service (equivalent of your NDNCR) for some time. Since I signed up for it about a year ago, I have had one telemarketing call (as opposed to about 2 a week beforehand). That particular person hung up pretty quickly when I threatened to sue him for 5000!

Re:Yeah.

[Chakde Phate!]

That should be GBP 5000 (apparently /. doesn't recoginse the pound sign!)

Re:Yeah.

[Chakde Phate!]

Actually, yes it is as you don't have to pay them for the privelege (and junk snail-mail is normally fairly distinctive IME). Furthermore, they have actually spent some real money to get the letter to your door, which does give you a certain element of satisfaction as you rip it up!

Alternatively, if you have enough time, you can cost them even more money by sending the pre-paid envelopes that they invariably send back to them filled with the shredded remains of the original letter, or something equally useful. I've heard of people sticking a label over the pre-printed address and using them as normal envelopes with free postage, but I've never actually tried this to see if it works!

Re:Yeah.

[jcr]

I asked politely, but if you're gonna be an ass about it

Oh, cry me another river.

Did you ever take Calculus in school? Are you familiar with the concept of infinitesimals?

If so, you'll have some idea of exactly how much I value your opinion.

Now, why don't you do the decent thing, and quit your phone-spamming job, and try selling your services as a prosititute? That way at least, you'll be delivering a service that your customers want, and you'll move up a few rungs on the morality ladder.

-jcr

Re:Yeah.

[jcr]

You know, the thing is, we are legally allowed to call between the hours of 8AM and 9PM. If you don't like it, contact your government, and get your laws changed.

Oh, sure. Nothing ever happens if there's a LAW against it, does it?

Nah, I think it's more effective (and satisfying) to just call you a phone-spamming cunt.

-jcr

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

I hear what you're saying. I hate my job, honestly. I've debated quitting several thousands of times in the short time span that I've been there. I can't take it. It's because so many people don't like it, and I know how they feel. I'm happy to report that in the past week, my DNC requests has increased about 400%, so I'm thinking that the national DNC list and such have been getting a lot of coverage in the news. I don't have cable (because I can't afford it) so I don't know this for certain. In any case, it's good. Now, I can't answer your questions. I think it's stupid too. I don't do rebuttals, so my supervisor gets mad at me. However, I have yet to hear one case where a rebuttal actually worked... So I try to not do it, and try to not piss people off. Surprisingly, I went through about 300 calls roughly today, without one person telling me off or anyhting. I don't see why it took so long to get a national DNC list... I agree that if someone isn't interested, that we shouldn't call back. Unfortunately, I can't control it. If I could, I would. It depends on independant clients. SBC set up their systems that way, and so we end up dailing people more than once, if they don't request to be on the DNC list. Some clients out there, if they have their shit together, will not call people back like that, but I imagine it's very rare, unfortunately. As far as the pre-emptive thing, I can give you an example of why we do it, but this is restricted to the client I'm dialing for, and obviously doesn't apply in all cases. I called one lady today who had got a brochure in the mail and saw our ads, but she just didn't bother calling us yet, and she kept putting it off. I called her at the right time, and sold her a higher up package than what I was initially offering, and I sold it to her twice, once for each line she had in her home. She said she was glad that I had called. Also, she got a special discount for using the telephone promotions, as opposed to if she had just walked into an office or called us herself. So she got a good deal. Of course, with our sales rate being like a half a percent, we have to make a lot of calls to get to that one sale. But anyhow, that's just an example. I'm hoping that by the end of next week I can get the hell out of there, but it depends if anyone else is hiring here... I've been in telemarketing now for about a month and a half, and I'm going to have a breakdown or something. It seriously sucks. Unfortunately, in the two and a half months of job searching I did before taking that position, no one was hiring, and the two places that were chose someone internal for the positions. I should have stayed in Toronto.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

Maybe you missed my point... I WANT people to sign up on the NDNC list.

If a telemarketer hangs up on you, and their supervisor was monitoring the call, they'll get disciplined, and usually fired. At least at our call center, that's how it works. We're not supposed to hang up, regardless of what's being said on the phone, and if we don't put someone on the DNC list when they requested it, and a supervisor is monitoring the call, again, it's usually automatic dismissal. We don't know when we're being monitored either, so it's a hit or miss thing. But anyhow, you likely don't care, as it's not been your experience, and I believe you. I can only speak for myself and what I see at my place of work. Other call centers obviously do things differently.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

Obviously you have no idea what I look like.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

How is it effective? We're still going to call you.

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

I have done this before, but I've never tried it outside of one town, so ymmv.

Re:Yeah.

[jcr]

It makes you hate the job, which eventually leads to you quitting the job, and trying to find a way to make an honest living.

It's rather like taking out the trash. Sure, it needs to be done constantly, because the shit keeps on piling up, but in the meantime it makes it possible for me to raise the costs of phone spammers doing business.

BTW, does your mother know what you do for a living? Didn't she raise you better than that?

-jcr

Re:Yeah.

[dolson]

My mom is dead, asshole.

Re:Yeah.

[jcr]

You know, if you weren't a tele-spammer, that might evoke some sympathy from me.

Anyhow, lucky for her that she didn't see what became of you.

-jcr

What about

[TastyWords]

the states which have their own "Do Not Call" list which is more restrictive? We've been told by our AG *ON TV* (just for everyone to understand this is not UL/FOAF) to ignore the Federal list because our state list has fewer loopholes and penalizes the pricks who call us (regardless of their location) much more than the Federal legislation. If you factor even a small state in (which has several million), that 41 million moves up quite a bit.

The people who are going to suffer are those who find out they can put their name on the list(s) AFTER the quarterly deadline and they get pestered at least one time by each company (as they'll have to take the call, then opt-out for that company) Until the next quarterly update. At least the politicians had the brains to use the funds for selling the lists be used for supporting the services needed to support the DNC (at least in our state).

The people I have no respect for are the chickenboners who claim they have free speech to call us so they can make money. They don't have free speech to drive down the street at three a.m. and use a bull horn, do they? They have free speech but do not have a right to be heard. This seems to be lost on people who simply claim, "My Constitutional Rights are being violated" when they're carried away on camera after shooting a pregnant teller during a bank robbery gone wrong.

Finally, let's examine the bull caca of, "This will cause million people to lose their jobs." Head for the hills this is getting deep. They're calling fewer people but it's as if those people said "no" when they were called in previous years. If people said "no" before and are on the list now, why didn't those people lose their jobs last year?

Figures can lie and liars can figure.

So why isn't she suing?

[jridley]

I think you can immediately sue any company that calls a cell phone number. Free money.

Or....

[dolson]

you could get off your lazy ass, pick up the phone, and call the NDNC number and register for it. If you don't like how things work in your country/state/province/whathaveyou, contact your government.

Re:The moral is do not donate to charity, I decide

[SoSueMe]

Last year, I started telling the charities "I just got married and don't have the money I did before".
Well I've been married a year and a bit and I don't get even 10% of the calls I once did. mind you, I don't have even 10% the money I once had either.

I solved that problem years ago

[Cyno]

I stopped using a telephone.

The way I see it is there are many way to communicate with modern technology. If you're too lazy to implement one of them then you probably don't want to communicate with me.

Write a script

[uberdave]

Anyone want to write a script to register every possible combination of digits? That ought to do them in.

Re:How much does it help against offshore companie

[princewally]

If they are selling anything here, they have to be licensed here. If they are calling from India, and you buy the product, and they ship it to you directly, then they'll get around the law. If they use a distributor or have an office in the US, then they can be punished.

Re:U.S. Law...

[rokzy]

I got loads of spams from a nightclub in Ontario. considering I'm in the UK, and email address ends in .uk, I don't know wtf they were expecting from me.

this kind of stuff I so retarded.

Re:Rights?

[drivers]

How many places are there to cram advertising?

Let's see...
...a sticker on your produce in the grocery store.
...on the back of the receipt.
...coupons printed along with that receipt.
...products placed in the checkout isle.
...in front of your face while you take a leak (for males)
...radio advertising
...concert/festival sponsorship
...cross licensing (Britney Spears's dance video game, Mortal Kombat soundtrack, ...)
...billboards
...T-shirts with corporate logos/slogans
...Channel One in schools
...curricula (e.g. "Pizza Hut" reading program, read books get "free" pizza)
...SPAM
...Happy Meal toys/boxes
..."collectable" plastic cups
...A mini music/data CD in the lid of your soft drink!
...dealer logo stuck on back of car (or on license frame in WA)
...fast food tray liner
...posters plastered on boarded-up buildings (ya, that's real classy)
...pre-movie slide show
...pre-movie commercials
...in-movie product placement
...studio music artists in studio picture show (as actors, or as soundtrack)
...paying "alpha" youths to use product in order to influence peers

an industry that employs 2 million

[Skapare]

From the article:

Telemarketing groups have sued to scratch the effort, arguing that it abridges free-speech rights and could wreak havoc on an industry that employs 2 million.

We know the industry uses automated dialers to make sure the the time spent by each person is not wasted dialing numbers that don't answer. Instead, the telemarketing staff are constantly online with the next number that answers. So if there are 2 million people working in that industry, and some significant portion of those at their station at any given time, imagine how much havoc that wreaks on the rest of the population. For every minute some telemarketer is working the phones, that's a minute someone else is not doing something productive. The higher the industry quotes these figures, the more it seems this law will actually help the rest of us.

Re:NOT SO QUICK

[Saganaga]

Actually, spoken English in China is getting better and better all the time. We were in Beijing last November (pre-SARS!) and were really impressed by how modernized the city is getting and how well English is being spoken there. Especially in Beijing, the Chinese government is really pushing the people to learn English for the 2008 Olympics.

Less than 15% of all telephones

[timbob_com]

According to the World Factbook at cia.gov, there were 194M (1997) telephone land lines in use and 69M (1998) cell phones. Using those figures only 15% of all available phone numbers have been registered on the DNC list. Since I am sure there are quite a few more land lines, and especially cell phones, since those stats were published I would guess the actual percentage of phone numbers registered with the DNC would be nearing 10%.

I don't think the telemarketing industry is being dealt the kind of blow they need with only 41M phones numbers registered.

Unfortunately the DNC requires a confirmation or we could organize and get every phone numbers listed on the list. That would be fun.

Re:Less than 15% of all telephones

[kiwaiti]

How many of these are office numbers? I don't think one of the three numbers you could enter was you office number, was it?

Kiwaiti

I don't see the problem

[ghost.]

I work for one of the largest U.S. direct marketing companies (not a phone rep, in their IT dept). I've thought about the DNC list a lot, and I fail to see the problem with it.

The people who don't want to get calls sign up. Those who wish to get calls won't sign up. Simple. Seems like the best solution possible.

My employer does hundreds of millions in sales annually, out of approximately 70 call centers across the country. Look, someone's got to be buying all that stuff (I'm looking at you, middle America).

It eliminates some jobs, yes (not just phone reps either - two rounds of staff layoffs here in the past year). It sucks, but that's just how it goes if the market is allowed to adjust itself. The pool of callable numbers decreases, but I would think your sales ratio goes up when you're only calling people who want to be called.

Now, I'll grant you that if I had been a part of the layoffs (*phew*), my bitterness level would be considerably higher toward the DNC list, but that doesn't change the reality that the list is a Good Thing.

Ah, what do I know? I screen all my calls with an answering machine anyway.

Just you wait...

[jabber01]

Just wait until the government retracts the list as "unconstitutional" or something of that sort, and then SELLS ALL THOSE NUMBERS, in the name of helping out the economy.

Bad idea for a couple reasons

[Sycraft-fu]

First, if you do bussniess in the US you are subject to US law. Doesnt' amtter where they are based, they can still be busted. However the other thing is that these people are, by definition, not good customers. They are the kind that have actively taken the time to opt out. I'd be going after the rest as your success rate is likely to be higher.

Does National Do-Not-Call List cover FAXes?

[chongo]

Does the National Do-Not-Call List only cover human voice / recording sales pitches or does it also cover "telemarketing" FAXes?

I know there are laws covering junk FAXes. I'm wondering if your FAX is on the Do-Not-Call List and you receive a junk FAX on it, then can you also go after the junk FAXer for violating the Do-Not-Call List?

Re:Does National Do-Not-Call List cover FAXes?

[Urox]

Laws don't help with fax.com. They wardial to find fax numbers. Ever since I hooked up a fax machine to my land line (about a year ago), I have gotten faxes. Their opt out numbers only verify that a person is there. They create false data to show that you asked for their business. They called me up at 3 in the morning repeatedly with their faxes which significantly impared my ability to work the next morning. Junkfaxes.org has lots of information on them.

Re:Does National Do-Not-Call List cover FAXes?

[Zed2K]

Junk faxes are already illegal.

Telemarketers move to Canada?

[Coward Anonymous]

Is there any reason telemarketers won't move their operations to Canada and place their calls from there?
It would be ironic as it would fulfill the prophecies of lost American jobs without anything being gained for the American public.

Re:Telemarketers move to Canada?

[trolman]

Yea, not enough Canadians to work in the call centers. Telecrappers have a hard time staffing and locate in many cities to get the headsets manned.

Of course there is nothing that stops the telespamers from using MCI to route the calls out of country?

Good way for phone company to make money

[mfrank]

One of the phone companies needs to come up with a service where if you get an unwanted call, you can press *38 (star-F-U) and the caller gets billed a dollar. They'd make a fortune.

Re:Couldn't someone with a lot of dummy emails...

[Skapare]

I think they would notice, and end up purging everything that came from whoever did that. But if it were done from a variety of addresses (open proxies) using a variety of free-mail mailboxes, it might be possible to slip it past them, at least maybe for every phone number in a small town.

And the message is

[El]

I put all 3 of my unlisted telephone numbers into the do-not-call list, just to help send a clear message to telemarketers that calling people up without their permission is not a viable business model.

Re:And the message is

[eagl]

But it IS a viable business model. Telemarketing is highly profitable, scalable, and startups have a relatively low overhead.

The fact that it's annoying as hell to those who have even a tiny amount of control against impulse buying does not invalidate the business model, it is merely a barrier that can be planned for.

You just gave your name and number

[bs_02_06_02]

... to every business, charity, and political campaign. You updated their list without any of "them" spending a dime. DUMB! The Do Not Call list doesn't stop charities, political campaigns, or "existing" business clients from calling you. What's the worst possible definition of "existing business relationship?" That's what you can expect your next solicitor to use in court, should this get actually get to court. Do Not Call lists prohibit cold-call sales. The law doesn't prevent someone from giving away "free" products, then charging you $10 for shipping and handling. Side note: Once you take a free product, you're on their "existing business" list. It also doesn't stop anyone from "surveying" for something, then offering a product for sale. The truth is, the marketing lobby has bought all of the politicians. How else do we get such worthless legislation? People think this list will work. How do legislators think this will be enforced? The FBI? Local police? They don't respond to reports of a break-in for 20 minutes unless the use of a gun is reported, and then they show up in 2 minutes. Stolen cars get about an hours' worth of paperwork, and then play the waiting game. How do you think the courts and law enforcement will feel about the DO NOT CALL list? What we need is a PRIVACY list. No ifs, ands, or buts. No calls from any charity, political campaign, or business. Ever. If you need to give out a telephone number to a solicitor, give them your local politicians' campaign office number. Let the politicians' staff deal with cold-calling telemarketers. Personally, I tell people I don't have a phone, I cancelled it due to too many telemarketing calls. It's not true, but they don't know that, and I don't have to give it to them.

Re:Rights?

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

Have no fear, Do Not Call lists are a thing of the past, as are annoying telemarketing calls!

Marketing has been hard at work with R&D and Programming teams and will soon release the Proactive Resupply Operating Base Engine (P.R.O.B.E.) for public use. This wonderful device will provide a complete synergy between the Provider and the Consumer. The merger of market and consumer will no longer be a long painful process; the corporations will be able to easily enter into the consumers needs, and provide them with complete and fulfilling service. Advertising will become a thing of the past, and the package the consumer desires will be directly injected into their life.

So don't wait, sign up in advance for your P.R.O.B.E.!

Charity begins on the phone...

[jefu]

I've said a couple times that I expect soon for the telemarketers to make deals with charities, so that they'll be calling on behalf of the charity but selling the same old crap. That way they'll be immune to the do-not-call list.

I've been told I'm far too cynical about that though and that it will never happen. If I were a betting human though I'd place a bet on it and I'd say it will be about October that you'll start getting the calls from them.

Then they'll figure out how to use the "existing business relationship angle" and the do not call registry will be worth all the paper its EULA is printed on.

Re:Charity begins on the phone...

[Prior Restraint]

I've said a couple times that I expect soon for the telemarketers to make deals with charities, so that they'll be calling on behalf of the charity but selling the same old crap. That way they'll be immune to the do-not-call list.

It's already been happening for some time. There's a telemarketing firm that called me up every three months asking me to buy magazine subscriptions at a steep discount so that (somehow) the Special Olympics would get a charitable donation.

Since they always tried to guilt me when I say I'm not interested in magazines, I hit upon a "compromise": I told them I didn't want any magazines, but I was very interested in helping out the Special Olympics, so could they please give me the address where I could mail in a donation directly? Alas, no one on their end had any idea of what the address might be.

Curiously, that was the last time they called me.

The survey loophole...

[the-matt-mobile]

[....]You may still receive calls from political organizations, charities, telephone surveyors[....]

Due to the "survey loophole", my fear is that every telemarketing call I now receive will start off like this:

Caller: May I speak with [mispronounce name here]. I'm taking a survey and would like to know what it would take for you to switch [long distance carriers|mortgage companies|lawn care service|you-name-it].

Call me cynical (not via my phone, but by replying to this post), but I'm on the do-not-call-list and I just don't expect my volume of calls-per-night to decrease... just a change in the caller's tactics.

Why bother?

[mclem]

Autodialer, baby. Who cares if the number is legit? It's easier just to let the machine ++ through.

other data

[trolman]

including Your machine name & IP Address.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[El]

At the end of the day, you've taken away jobs and hurt the economy. That's why this is a bad idea.

That's why it's a bad idea to pass laws against those people that stand on streets asking for money, then screaming obscenities at the people that don't give them any... you see, if you make this illegal, than you've taken away these people's jobs and hurt the economy. Liquor stores and drug dealers in your city will be forced out of business! Think of the children!

Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. Unsolicited callers are clearly infringing on MY rights. If you've got a business model that requires you to make cold calls to attract suckers, I would suggest that you don't have a business model, you've got an extortion racket.

From a TeleMarketer's point of view...

[c4Ff3In3 4ddiC]

From the view point of a person who owns a Telemarketing company (not me, my boss), 41 million out of 290 million people is not a lot. It isn't going to be a big problem for us.

Re:Rights?

[platipusrc]

Actually, any money that drug dealers may pull in depends on the anti-drug laws. Without the laws, the business would be legit and profits would go through the floor.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[raygundan]

You have got to be kidding. I have, over the last 8 to 10 years, asked to be added to the do-not-call list of EVERY TELEMARKETER who called my house when I was home to answer. I *STILL* got 3 or 4 calls a day from telemarketers during the evening hours when I was home. Suing? Yeah, right. You folks may be required by law to identify yourselves, but just TRY to prove which calling center called you from the end of the average telephone user. Centers call on the behalf of multiple companies, and we have no idea which center you're calling from. If I ask who you are, you fuckers hang up. You block my goddamn caller ID. I go right back on your lists every time I move, and you seem to have a hard time finding where you put that darned list in the first place-- because NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I ASK TO BE REMOVED, my average daily number of telemarketing calls DOES NOT CHANGE. If centers are actually no longer calling, they must be notifying other centers to pick up the slack, or closing down and moving to a new office every 3 months so they can pitch the list and be a "new call center".

The only thing that stopped it was my state's do-not-call list. This new DNC list adds another level of federal fun to the overwhelming national sentiment that telemarketing sucks poop right out of a hose attached to the collective asses of every cow in North America. Don't freaking call me. And don't take jobs that violate your principles, especially if you "don't care if they shut down tomorrow."

No, we couldn't have stopped it "a long time ago". We tried and tried. Now, the law has been changed, and we have a reasonable recourse. Don't like it? Well, golly-gosh-dangit-- too bad.

wow, thanks for making my point

[boarder]

"You could have requested to be added to the do
not call lists for each individual call center,
and eventually you'd have been removed from all
the call centers."

Umm, I do just that. Every time any telemarketer calls while I'm home, I tell them that. I also ask them if they are a member of the DMA (which most aren't). This will NEVER stop the illegal auto-dialed calls... it also doesn't stop the calls that come from companies that hang up if they call you and THEIR reps aren't available to talk to you (but keep your number in their list). One company called twice a day for 3 weeks only to hang up because nobody was there on their end (I called the atty general to file a complaint and finally got the issue resolved).

The whole point is that saying "put me on your do not call list" DOES NOT WORK. And, even if it did, it would take a year to get through to every call center that might call me if I waited for them to call. Not only that, but once I move and change phone numbers, the calls start right back up... a central do not call list allows me to quickly stop those calls again.

"And if they called you back within 10 years,
you could sue them. That's the law."

Have you tried to sue a telemarketer for calling? I have. It is not easy, and I did end up giving up. First off, getting the necessary info from them takes knowledge of what you need. Next, you have to go through a long, arduous process of court systems and contacting call centers and proof and stuff like that. It sucks.

"You're probably also the kind of person who
gets mad if we call as early as 8AM or as late
as 9PM, aren't you? Well, that's the US law, so
if you don't like it, contact your government
and get your laws changed."

Ummm... excuse me? Isn't that EXACTLY what this story is about? We, the U.S. people, are saying we don't want you to call. The government is finally listening and changing the law. Now, the telemarketers are getting angry. They don't like it? That's the law, as you say.

On behalf of SBC?

[Chaotician]

Oh, so you're the jackass that keeps calling me. Look, you dont work for SBC, you arent calling on their behalf (I know because my account manager says they have nothing to do with you.) So not only are you harrassing me, wasting my time and being rather annoying... but also lying. So do us all a favor. STOP.

Re:On behalf of SBC?

[dolson]

If I'm not calling on behalf of SBC, then why is SBC training me, paying for my training, and paying for my wages? If my brother wanted to call you, and instead he got me to call you, I would say that I am calling you on his behalf. What part of that don't you understand?

Another title for this story...

[VValdo]

41 Million Sign Up for National Do-Not-Call List

An alternate headline, given the list's exceptions...

41 Million Sign Up for National Political and Charity Call List

Right now (knock on wood) I don't get enough (well, ANY really) sales calls to make this list worthwhile. Thank goodness for 10 years of having an unlisted #...

W

Re:You're flirting with Godwin's law

[kaltkalt]

1. Godwin's law is bullshit to begin with, because as a conversation goes on, the probability of any word being said approaches one, whether that word be nazi, hitler, spinach, or pepsi. So Godwin's law sounds spiffy until you realize it applies to any word, not just Nazi or some other evil regime.

2. I am saying the DMA is a terrorist organization. It's not any different than saying the Irish Republican Army is like al Queda. All 3 are terrorist groups. They all terrorize the public to accomplish their goals (independence from Britain, get rid of the infidels, sell products to people who don't want them). It's all about the tactics employed to get one's message out. Calling strangers at their homes to sell them stuff, sending them hundreds of spams a day, and hanging pizza menus on everyone's doorknob is just as antisocial as suicide bombing busloads full of children to bring attention to your cause.

Fscking exemption for broadcasters

[Anonymous Coward]

Cellphone numbers can be added to the DNC list.

BUT... in a recent order this is what the FCC said in paragraph 145:

The Commission sought comment on calls made by radio stations or television broadcasters that encourage telephone subscribers to tune in at a particular time for a chance to win a prize or similar opportunity. . . . We conclude that if the purpose of the message is merely to invite a consumer to listen to or view a broadcast, such message is permitted under the current rules as a commercial call that "does not include the transmission of any unsolicited advertisement" and under the amended rules as "a commercial call that does not include or introduce an unsolicited advertisement or constitute a telephone solicitation."

Since the National DNC list only applies to "telephone solicitations" and the junk fax prohibition only applies to "unsolicited advertisements" ... Calls and faxes promoting radio and TV brodcasts are exempt!

So you will soon find yourselves innundated with Norm MacDonald and others calling you incessently to "watch the Norm MacDonald Show on ABC" and you won't be able to stop them.

Some people are trying to get the FCC to close this loophole, and the FCC has asked for additional comments to be submitted... so submit yours .

No, just tell them up front.

[ErikTheRed]

I've actually found a better way to get off of Telemarketer lists - discovered when a particularly abusive mortgage broker (or lead generator for one) in the 818 area code started bugging me at least once a day. They had a pretty nifty scam - a block of 818 numbers, each assigned to a different front company. The only stupid thing they did was use consecutive phone numbers (probably a 50-number DID block), so it was pretty obvious. Anyway, when you asked them to remove your from their lists (theirs and their other customers, etc), you kept getting calls from the other numbers (which they would claim were different organizations).

Finally, one day I just snapped at them and got rude. I mean really rude. I said things that, on a normal day, would make me blush. I believe I called the telemarker something like "a ghonerreah-infested cocksmoking whore," "a fucking worthless piece of shitty sewer garbage," "a fucking tool," and several other things that I leave to your imagination. But, hey, instead of 15-20 calls per week, I haven't had one since. I didn't even ask the stupid bitch to remove me from the list!

So that's my new M.O.: Somebody bothers me with an unwanted telephone pitch, they get cursed out in ways that would shock a sailor (unless I'm in the mood to screw with them in other ways - I particularly like telling "police office charities" that I'm a dangerous criminal who hates cops, or the people who wanted to sponser seat belt awareness (???) that I'm in favor of people dying because they're too stupid to buckle up and I consider that Darwinian selection in action). The number of unwanted (the only kind) telephone solicitations I receive has dropped noticeably... Now if I can just find a way to deal with the recorded messages....

Free Speech vs Democracy

[jd]

The telemarketers are opposed to the DNC list, on the grounds of free speech. Aside from the fact that businesses get a restricted version of the First Amendment anyway (which is a Good Thing - think of what might happen if Microsoft advertised their product as secure and reliable!), we also live in a democratic society that recognises referenda as a legitamate device of the population.

41 million people have registered. There's only 200 million or so people in the entire country, including children. That means that, even if you include non-voters, almost a quarter of the entire population has rejected telemarketing.

If you adjust, first by eliminating those who don't have phones, and then by using the estimated number of voters who turn out for an election as a guide for the percentage of people who tend to be active, you're talking much closer to 50-60% of the population.

Short version: We're in a democracy, and over half the people have said NO. To me, that makes it clear-cut. The industry has been voted down by a majority. They've had their say, and the American public have told them where to stuff it.

When the telemarketing case reaches court, I hope the judge not only throws it out, but finds the telemarketers guilty of abuse of the legal system for even bringing it.

This won't change anything...

[OECD]

While the Do-Not-Call list does protect you from unsolicited calls from private groups, it does not protect you from non-profit groups (such as charities).

I always thought the DNC list was misguided. While telemarketers are annoying, they are nowhere near as annoying as those hangup calls you get from a computer trying to figure out if someone's home. If they just banned those I could live with the TMs.

Now, since telemarketers have to eat too, they're going to try to do more work for 'charities', they may even set up their own. The net effect will be just as many of those damn annoying hangup calls that fill up my answering machine (or did when I plugged it in.)

Some evil... TERRORIST!!!

[A55M0NKEY]

Some sick son-of-a-bitch is gonna do this, cleverly having his wget program set up free email accounts and use them to confirm the registrations, they'll sign everyone up slowly over like 2 years, until the telemarketers pertition the government that there was cheating and the cheats can't be reliably seperated from the real signups. The terrorist, or disgruntled ex-spammer will have successfully brought back telemarketing to the US. Moo haa haa.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[Anonvmous Coward]

"At the end of the day, you've taken away jobs and hurt the economy. That's why this is a bad idea"

Same could be said for cracking down on drug dealers.

Re:Rights?

[fucksl4shd0t]

This troll has shown us all how few slashdotters actually have any sense of humor. :) Look at all the responses talking all the trash to this guy. No wonder he posted as AC. Of course, i wouldn't have. :) Anonymity for registered users, I say!

how about OPT IN, instead of OPT OUT?

[the_REAL_sam]

Nothing against that model, but wouldn't it be better if they could only call your number if you'd opted in? Freedom of speech shouldn't apply to corporations.

The first ammendment was written to protect individual's free speech and political expression. It was not written to protect corporations, which did not even exist back then.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[cpeterso]

but if you dismantle the do-not-call list, you are taking away the jobs of do-not-call list admins!

Re:Sad, sad day...

[fucksl4shd0t]

It's a sad, sad day when the federal government steps in to interfere with the agreements willingly forged between telemarketing companies and phone companies.

It was an even sadder day when commercial telemarketers were able to trump individuals' freedom to chose. I've been woken up at all hours of the day by telemarketers (I sleep at weird times, generally, and that's my choice). I've been called while cooking, eating, changing diapers, shitting, etc. I get so fucking sick of people I don't know calling me and interrupting my life just because they want to sell me something I don't want. As a professional marketing consultant, I can tell you that there are better ways to attract business, and that there's better ways to collect phone numbers that you can call, with permission, and realize a much higher call-to-sale ratio. Of course, as a professional marketing consultant, if you want me to tell you, you'll have to give me money.

In your dreams it works that way...

[AltaMannen]

Here's my experience trying to be nice about it:

[telemarketer] Hi, Can I speak to mr dickhead please (they never have the right pronounciation)?
[me] There is no person here by that name.
[telemarketer] Hello mr dickhead, I am calling to make you buy this product.
[me] Please tell me your name and how to avoid getting phone calls from you in the future.
[telemarketer] The product you are about to buy is really fabulous and incidentally I already put in your order.
[me] I'm not interested, tell me who you work for and how I can avoid being called by your organization again.
[telemarketer] I am self employed, there is no supervisor. Now, can I verify your address please.
[me] I hope you catch SARS. <hangup>

I would never sign up with a call center for opting out, I don't trust them. The effect would invariably be that I have signed up with them and therefore I would be excempt from the federal do-not-call lists.

Re:In your dreams it works that way...

[jridley]

No. It works. I started being meticulous about asking to be on the DNC list for every company represented by the TM I was talking to. Within 6 months, no more calls. It's been years now and I only take perhaps 6 to 10 calls a year. Those are either pollsters, political parties (which of COURSE will never get a law passed against them) or piddly little heating-duct cleaning places that are just going through the phone book.

Re:In your dreams it works that way...

[dolson]

Well, I can see why you would hesitate to sign up onto a call center's DNC list, but just so you know, the National DNC is effective for only 5 years, and you have to pay for it. Our call center's DNC list is effective for 10 years, at no cost. IIRC, it is the law that it be 10 years from a call center. And again, you can sue if a call center violates that.

Estimated 20% opt-out rate!

[whovian]

From US 2000 Census, there were 209.1 million persons aged 18 or older.

41.7 million current registrants is about 20% of people (who I assume are "eligible" to agree "legally" to terms in a telemarketing call).

Take that up to 60 million, and you have almost 30% of people. Though I'm kind of surprised that is not most people, it's not a trivial value either.

WIWTKI, is the percentage of email enabled people who don't want spam much higher than 30% ?

Re:Bit of info....Police soliticiting for money???

[cjmnews]

I don't know where you live, but around here if you are soliticited by police for money you have to suspect it is some kind of scam. Why would a publicly funded service group have the right to ask for money outide of an election?

Yes I signed up. The semi-automated methods I've tried do not seem to deter them:

• Only family numbers have distinctive ring
• Use Caller ID/Call Waiting ID, do not answer Unidentified, Private Name, or businesses you are not expecting calls from
• Answering Machine starts with first tone of disconnected tones, has "put on do not call list if you are a solicitor" message, and occasional manual stop of recording automated callers as well as bold/idiot solicitors that ignored all prior messages

They keep calling and calling and . . .

Is it just me? Or is it nearly impossible to get a /. rating above 1 if you're not in the inner circle?

Re:This is a horrible idea

[jcr]

I WANT telemarketers unemployed... they can go back to turning tricks and selling crack on schoolyards. That way they are offering services that people want and use.

That's one for the quotes file! Well Said!

-jcr

Telemarketing is Not Free Speech

[serutan]

Telemarketers are in court right now contending that the national do not call list violates their freedom of speech. Here's my two cents.

Freedom of speech is the right to express yourself in public, not the right to demand that anyone pay attention to you. Your freedom of speech doesn't exist in someone else's house, which is where their end of the phone line is.

That's why I believe the telemarketing association will lose their court challenge. They simply don't have the rights they claim to have.

Take their picture.

[GoRK]

Keep a used up disposable or similarly old camera by the door with no film (it will still flash even though it doesnt actually take a photo) and whenever someone starts the sales pitch just "take their picture" and tell them never to come back. This usually gets people pretty well freaked.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[jcr]

That is the worst and most idiotic argument for telemarketing I've ever heard... and it is the exact one that telemarketers use.

It's interesting that the person you were replying to has only ever made one post on slashdot. If I had to guess, I'd say it was some PR flack from the Direct Marketing Association trying to tell us a thing or two.

-jcr

Re:Rights?

[jcr]

Wow, that's one of the best trolls I've seen this week. I thought you were serious for a second!

-jcr

Privacy versus convenience

[xtrucial]

There are several of these suppression lists; you can do the same thing with snail junk mail. I don't know that I want my information with some corporation or yet another governmental organization. And since I've owned solely a cell phone for about a year, I received only one telemarketing call, so it's not a big issue for me anyway.

Telemarketers should be GLAD this list exists

[erat]

It strikes me as odd that telemarketers are so pissed about this do-not-call stuff.

The way I see it, telemarketers are going to be provided the service of being told who not to concentrate on when doing sales pitches. Why waste time on folks who they know will not only NOT buy their stuff but will also openly (even publicly) hate them and the companies that contracted their services? This sounds like a BENEFIT to telemarketers, not a hinderance.

I've gotten MORE calls after signing up!

[mcgintech]

Yeah, thats right. I've been bombarded by every student loan consolidator, window installer, mortgage refinancer and every other tele-scumbag on earth since I signed up. I call a day as opposed to only one a week before signing up. Its a scam.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[jridley]

You're not doing it right then.
When a telemarketer calls, you don't say "please put me on your do-not-call list."

You say "Please put me on the do-not-call list for EVERY company that your firm represents."

I started doing this a few years ago, and within 6 months, NO TM calls, except for piddly little local places like one-man heating duct cleaning places just going through the phone book at night, and that's like 3 a year.

Also, the DMA's "no junk mail" list works. I sent mine in, and I haven't seen a credit card application or anything else like it for a couple of years.

But I still like this, and signed up for it the first day. If there were 100 ways to tell TMs to frag off, I'd do them all.

Filing complaints

[Captain Entendre]

On the one hand, you're responding to a question about Colorado's list with an answer about the federal list. On the other hand, you do bring up an interesting point. Check out this page.

Q: What happens to my complaint?

A: Do not call complaints will be entered into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide. While the FTC does not resolve individual consumer problems, your complaint will help us investigate the company, and could lead to law enforcement action.

It doesn't say anything about a right of private action, a la the junk fax law. So, if you get bothered, just hope that millions of other people got bothered as well. Maybe (maybe) Uncle Sam will do something about it.

Bummer.

And then there's this:

Q: What if I get a telemarketing call, but can't get the telemarketer's name or phone number?

A: For law enforcement officials to take action on your complaint, they need either the telemarketer's name or phone number. If you want to report a Do Not Call violation, please get that information.

I just thought that was funny. It amounts to suggestion that telemarketers block their caller-id to avoid trouble, and a suggestion that callees express interest long enough to find out everything they can about the caller.

I learned that lesson a while back when got a call on my cellphone years ago from a telemarketer who claimed he didn't know the name of his employer. He hung up after I asked what was printed on his paychecks.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[silentbozo]

The problem big problem are those automated dialers who call up, have a big blank pause so your answering machine can have its say, then leave a goddamn long-ass message. If this isn't the phone-equivalent of spam, I don't know what is. Yes, i've put my number on the new do-not-call list, and I tell every punk who tries to sell me something "put me on your do not call list." The "for every company your firm represents" is a new one that I need to remember.

You think it's a joke but...

[cryptochrome]

"At this time, the National Do Not Call Registry is no longer taking deletions on line" can be found on the deletion page. Now why would they remove something like that? Perhaps because someone telemarketer was committing fraud and removing people from the list?

Re:This is a horrible idea

[giftzwerg]

"At the end of the day, you've taken away jobs and hurt the economy." What an appallingly stupid remark. I have never done business with a telemarketer. I will never do business with a telemarketer. Thus the entire transaction which ensues when a telemarketer contacts me - the expense of calling me, the effort to talk to me, my telling them to &^#$ off, my hanging up in disgust - is worthless to all parties. Ergo, I am doing the telemarketing industry a favor my removing my number from the rolls of potential customers, since I am not a prospective customer. If they had any brains, they'd thank me for this.

Re:Erk!

[gid]

That's an absolutely true story, why would I make such a dumb story up?

Re:This is a horrible idea

[cpt kangarooski]

Unsolicited callers are clearly infringing on MY rights.

Really? How?

Re:This is a horrible idea

[evilviper]

This will put these companies out of business because they simply cannot process such a large list with their antiquated systems.

Frankly, that's the idea. If you can't respect people's rights, you get shut down.

It translates into more expensive call service centers, which means lower quality and longer hold times for consumers.

Hold times? No such thing. People don't stay on hold when they are the ones that have been called.

At the end of the day, you've taken away jobs and hurt the economy. That's why this is a bad idea.

You could say that about requiring companies to warranty their products. It would be better for the economy if people had to buy 3 items to get one that works...

Besides... if you knew anything about a service economy, you'd know that services (including ones forced upon people) don't help the economy at all.

Besides, it will do more to help the economy, because now companies will be PAYING for traditional advertising, like commercials on radio and TV, billboards, etc.

DNC Lists

[Goodmanson]

Some of you need to chill out about this whole telemarketing thing. Your world will not end if you are telemarketed. It is probably safe to say that most have caller ID. If you dont know the number calling, dont answer it. No one is making you answer the phone and listen to the other end. It is your curiousity that is getting the best of you, not the evil telemarketer.

Re:Rights?

[Chakde Phate!]

Please, if you have the slightest confidence in what you're saying, don't post anonymously.

Re:This is a horrible idea

[sjames]

That is the worst and most idiotic argument for telemarketing I've ever heard... and it is the exact one that telemarketers use.

I propose that the solution to the 'economic damage' caused by laying off the telemarketers is simple. We hire them all to throw rocks through the windows of every company that used to employ them. Think about the increadible boost the economy will get when they hire people to replace the glass!

Hey, it makes at least as much sense as their arguments!

Re:This is a horrible idea

[sjames]

Every telemarketing call you've ever gotten... You could have requested to be added to the do not call lists for each individual call center, and eventually you'd have been removed from all the call centers.

Been there, done that. Between the weasels that quickly hang up as soon as they hear the dreaded 'please place <CLICK>' to the legal sophistry of moving around and changing incorperations to the stupid autodialers that don't give you a live person to request do not call, and the sheer number of these clowns, it is a never ending task. I've been doing that for YEARS and still get calls.

Well, that's the US law, so if you don't like it, contact your government and get your laws changed.

Guess what? I and millions of others did just that and for once the system worked. As a result, there is now a very popular national do not call list. Don't like it? TOUGH!

Actually, the do not call list was my second preferance. The first was that if you call me, I get to punch you in the nose for free. I bet you'd like that even less.

Perhaps if I explain things a bit, you might understand. You see, I go out into the world on a regular basis to do business. When I am at home, I do not wish to do business, I wish to relax. Since it is MY home, and MY phone, it is MY right. You'd probably be pretty pissed if I showed up at your desk and set the table for my dinner while you're trying to work. You're doing pretty much the same thing when you call me at home.

Considering the number of anti-tyelemarketing websites, popular press, angry recipiants of telemarketing calls, and even Mad Magazine suggesting pranks to play on telemarketers, it's simply not believable when telemarketers claim that they don't believe they annoy people. You know very well that you are nothing but a professional jackass. Perhaps you can get a job paddling yourself on TV or some such trash now.

IMHO, the do not call registry is a step in the right direction. It's primary failing is that there are exceptions.

Now if we could just do something about ambulance chasers.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[volkris]

You don't have to answer your phone or subscribe to the service.

No telemarketing company is forcing their speech on you.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[volkris]

Telemarketers were never able to trump an individual's freedom to chose.

I'm sorry that you chose to subscribe to a phone service and purchase a phone that interfere with your life so much, but you can't blame the callers for that.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[fucksl4shd0t]

I'm sorry that you chose to subscribe to a phone service and purchase a phone that interfere with your life so much, but you can't blame the callers for that.

If I don't want door-to-door salesmen, I can put up a sign that says "no soliciting". Then, if a door-to-door salesman shows up, I can call the cops and have him arrested for trespassing. In some states, I can shoot him, and as long as he stays on my property after I shoot him, it's fine. I can put up a fence around my house with barbed wire and spikes, and a gate. I can lock the gate so that unwanted visitors can't enter.

In all of these choices I have, I always have the freedom to allow visitors that I do want. Nothing stops me from letting in my dad, or my mom, brothers, sister, etc. Friends. They can all come in, no matter what solution I pick to keep out unwanted visitors.

I don't have that choice with my phone. The blocking technology doesn't block out all telemarketers, and it does block some wanted calls (such as relatives that depend on calling cards for their long distance service). If I unplug my phone, I've blocked out everybody, and there's not much point to having the phone in the first place. I can get callerID ad only answer when I recognize the number, but a few of my relatives that call occasioanlly call from phone numbers that aren't transmitted or aren't consistently the same. Besides, that method only works on specific phones, not specific people. What if my wife calls from a pay phone because she just got broadsided into a ditch? And I, of course, wouldn't answer a number I don't recognize. Right?

Re:Erk!

[M1m3R]

Actually, I can vouch for the story...as I am the one who pushed the button. And yes, it continues to be funny...even at my new job...which is with the client who was in the office that day.

BTW: I continue to look for more buttons to push...I like breaking stuff.

Re:Erk!

[prosediva]

I too can vouch for this story, as I am the client (who M1m3R now works for) who asked about the button in the first place. While it is also true that M1 likes to push random buttons and break stuff, he is also quite adept at fixing the stuff he (and everyone else in the office) breaks.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[volkris]

The product that you subscribe to, the telephone service, doesn't allow you to post signs.

I'm sorry you're subscribing to a service that doesn't give you what you need, but that's no reason for the government to get involved.

Re:Sad, sad day...

[fucksl4shd0t]

I'm sorry you're subscribing to a service that doesn't give you what you need, but that's no reason for the government to get involved.

The National do not call list is a way to post a "no soliciting" sign on your telephone. That's all it is. Otherwise, the fact that there's a law there is semantically identical to the laws regarding soliciting private residences door-to-door. Before this, we had no way to do it. And it *is* somethig that needs to be independent of phone service providers who make a certain amount of money selling their own call lists.

So what percentage is 41 million?

[lvirden]

If 41 million users registered - how many people who have phones have not registered?

Re:Sad, sad day...

[volkris]

Oh really?
If a phone company created a no call list based on consumer demand it would actually be a no call list. This list the government created has so many loopholes that you might as well not even bother.

In the end that there is no do not call list already only shows that the public doesn't care enough to demand it from the phone companies. It's just one of those thigns that everyone likes to gripe about but nobody REALLY cares that much about.

And even what you said just now doesn't wash. The no call list is not the same as a sign in your front yard, it's a registration in the courthouse. To carry the analogy back into the real world you'd have to check with the court house before you knocked on any of your neighbor's doors to borrow a cup of sugar. It's fundamentally different.

Vonage broadband telephone option

[Jim123]

A reviewer of the vonage service, at http://www.longmeadcrossing.com/vonage.cfm, notes
its use has virtually eliminated telemarketer calls. It might provide additional privacy protection. If you try vonage, note the need for an UPS for the required cable modem and router should your power fail, unless you have a cellphone for backup. I'm also still trying to determine if I can plug in my whole house (8 extensions).

Sleazy Policemens' Funds Solicitors

[billstewart]

The worst of those that I've gotten was for the California Narcotics Officers' Association, who are a non-profit that not only finds ways to get money to sleazy prohibition cops, but lobbies to make sure drugs stay illegal, especially marijuana, and in particular they lobby against medical marijuana because they think that their political correctness is more important than the suffering of cancer patients. It happens that the kind of cancer and chemotherapy my father had wouldn't have been helped much by marijuana until his last couple of weeks (and he was in a state that didn't end prohibition on medical use), but I still take this extremely personally. This group was a "do research and call back the telemarketing shop to tell them what sleazes their customer is" level of sleaze. Many of these groups are just greedy, but these guys are actively evil.