Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Anti-Spyware to Be Free of Charge
fubar1971 writes "During his keynote speech at the at the RSA Security Conference Bill Gates announced that the MS antispyware will be offered for free. From his speech: 'We've looked hard at the nature of this problem, and made a decision that this anti-spyware capability will become something that's available at no additional charge for Windows users -- both the blocking capability, and the scanning and removal capabilities.' Additional information at Government Computer News." Update: 02/16 16:57 GMT by Z : Microsoft was previously considering charging extra for this service.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
From the first Slashdot article blurb (emphasis mine):
rscrawford writes "CNN reports that Microsoft may charge extra for security software. So first they edge their competition out of the browser market, then they tie IE into the OS so tightly that a crash in IE can crash the computer, and then they make IE so vulnerable that just using it is hazardous to the typical computer's health, and now they want to CHARGE users to fix it?"
From today's Slashdot article blurb:
Quite a turnaround from charging extra to free.
Looks like they never said for sure that they were going to charge extra. As you can see above it said "may". Now, are we all going to whine that MSFT shouldn't be distributing software with their OS to combat spyware because it "may" edge out competition in the spyware removal market or are we just going to complain that they considered charging people to use it when they aren't now?
Because MSFT software (browser, OS, and extras like ActiveX) should have been programmed correctly in the first place I would expect MSFT to distribute this software for free. People should be able to clear their computers out of what shouldn't have been there from the get go.
Personally, I don't care. I will likely continue to use what I have been using all along (although I have been trying to use the Mac for most surfing) as recent testing has shown MSFT's solution to not be quite as good as third party offerings.
... Doctor's who leave sponges and surgical instruments inside you body during an operation will now remove them at no extra cost to you!
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Whoohoo! However, to help recoup the expenses for offering the anti-spyware for free, Microsoft will be selling information about known vulnerabilities in the software to the spyware vendors.
Does this mean they'll cancel each other out, leaving the user with nothing?
Zonk's being rude. The first story that he linked to very clearly uses the word "may" as in "Microsoft *may* charge for this product." It was never definite that they would. Then again, this is Slashdot. sigh.
iRooster, the Mac OS X a
I removed Microsoft's antispyware program because it was creating a log file in the hundreds of megabytes (this was only after one week). I thought there might be a setting to turn off the log -- it really screwed up my disk defrag program because the file has a few thousand pieces scattered over the hard drive -- but I couldn't find anything.
Anybody know if this is a bug that was fixed, or how to stop it?
Gates went on to say, "Much like our Internet Explorer and Outlook Express products, we feel that it is best if we charge for these tools what they are worth."
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Quite a turnaround from charging extra to free.
This is not a turnaround; the linked slashdot article simply cried wolf. MS hadn't ever released a statement committing to a pricing-model for MSAS. At most they had said they were investigating the options. Now they have finished their investigation, and the price is $0.
common sense. it doesn't matter how many tools joe user has on his pc, if he/she doesn't exercise sound judgement in surfing, no amount of anti-spyware tools will help.
Is it 5:30 yet?
You'd have to sell your soul and give up any common sense.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I think Lavasoft may be in a hard position now. Ad-Aware is also free, but they depend on the paid version to keep them afloat. Now that MS is offering theirs for free, I wonder what Lavasoft will do to stay competitive.
I hope MS doesn't turn around and start charging once the competition is eliminated.
both the blocking capability, and the scanning and removal capabilities. (will be free)
What about the updating capability?
The Consumer version will be FREE. Enterprise/Corporate version is NOT. They only let out one side of the story, for PR effect, it worked. You missed the flipside, for Enterprises they will charge.
Great suggestions... it would be nice to see them in the finished product. One thing that I'd like to see:
IDIOT PROOFING
Right now, the software is far too intrusive in many modes. I just want something that will run when the screensaver comes on (or the PC is locked) and eliminates a predetermined "level" of crap. This would be a blessing for anyone who has to remove this crap all of the time.
More
why does the world need IE 7 on the mac? Safari is fine, and firefox is better. The mac can do without IE.
I always hated anti-virus and anti-software programs. This is more of a philosophical question.. Antispyware/AV runs all the time to detect any spywares/Virus. The main problem with spywares /virus(among many others ) is that it uses up your cpu time. However, to beat that we run antispyware/virus, which also usesup the cpu time (if running in real-time mode)!
"There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people."--Howard Zinn
We've looked hard at the nature of this problem, and made a decision that this anti-spyware capability will become something that's available at no additional charge for Windows users
--Bill Gates
Yes, its called AdAware and SpyBot S&D. Free spyware killing tools on Windows has little to do with MS putting one out for free.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Here's my bet: use is free, but then they'll start charging for updates.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
What about producing any app for linux?
You've got some valid points, but I've got to say that as a linux user, I'd be a little leery of of anything they developed for linux, at least until I had a chance to dissect it.
Great. Why is MS making a big toodoo about it. Wait, I'll answer my own question. It's because they had planned to charge for this previously. Still, making a big hoohah over giving away a tool to clean up spyware that infests one of your other products due to very poorly designed security is hardly wise. "Hey...look at me. My product sucks, but I'm giving away duct tape and bailing wire so you can fix'er right up." Brilliant.
Let's be honest - this is a Good Thing. Hopefully they'll start pushing it as hard & in as widespread a manner as they do MSN Search, etc..
/., but kudos to Microsoft for not trying to turn consumers upsidedown and shake the change out of their pockets (more so than they currently do, that is).
Actually, how cool would it be if this was rolled out as an automatic update?
I'm all for any solution that might stem the tide of adware/spyware-filled systems, and the bot-driven-spam & "my computer's broke" complaints that they bring.
This probably isn't said very often on
Just once I'd like someone to call me 'Sir' without adding 'You're making a scene.'
Not making a version of IE for the Mac is probably a good thing. The OSX version is pure trash.
I guess the jury is in. It really doesn't work very well but we can probably leverage it to force people to pay for something else down the road, so let's give it away.
Does the anti-spyware tool remove IE? If not, someone needs to support the security hole.
so does this mean it will remove its own phone home in Windows XP (windows acivation, error reports....
IE's default security settings are the problem.
IE needs to, by default, deny ANY apps, unless specifically added to a white list.
So, until they bow to your foolish whim, you think they are evil?
Pretty Pictures!
Elinks. Just eliminate the issue entirely. =)
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
I have been spyware free for the past 6 months since i switched to firefox, which will always be free.
It may be a good product, but it is no longer necessary for me!
if you read the anti-spyware EULA, you'll find that the spyware removal tool is at least as bad as the spyware it purports to remove.
...for commercial applications. SpyBot S&D, on the other hand, is. So maybe corporations will turn to Microsoft in this respect.
With any purchase of Windows XP or Longhorn! Act now! Supplies are unlimited!
On the spam front, Gates said that Microsoft is working with all of the major ISPs on an initiative to positively identify the senders of e-mail. The system will rely on data from the DNS infrastructure to ferret out the true IP address of e-mail senders in an attempt to defeat the address-spoofing that is de rigeur for spammers. Gates said the system may be up and running by this summer.
Sounds like they plan to have their own White List of ISPs that play nice with M$. I wonder M$ will leverage this new free spyware tool to lock out smaller competing email systems that will be marked as "unsafe" by default.
It was sites like this that made a big hoohah shouting about if MS charges it will be a conflict of interest, anit-competetive, and every other anit-MS jargon they could spew out. MS is simply responding to it saying no, we are not charging for it.
Will it be available to people with 8in1 XP Pro official Bittorrent Edition versions of XP? Last I heard patches would not be available to known keys that were leaked. Would this be denied as well? Microsoft- Making the internet a dangerous place so that they can protect us from it.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Seriously, what would people say if Microsoft tried to charge money for their baseline security software? They don't charge money for security patches, nor do other companies I know of. Given the magnitude of the problem of spyware and viruses on Windows, I'd say that they are right up there with basic security holes in needed a fix for free. I'd even bet that lawyers would agree.
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
Great. So now Microsoft gets some good "Free PR" (as if Joe Average or Jim Pointyhair actually needs any more reasons to respect or admire Microsoft...), thereby further distracting the average Windows user from the fact that MS software is a spyware magnet to begin with.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
Before Microsoft starts selling banner ads to supplement their income on the windows toolbar? Or on certain program splash screens?
Whatever. I agree with you in part, that sites like /. contribute to the hoohahing. I do not however agree that Mr. Gates used a keynote speach to rebut the likes of /.
Being a fine, upstanding company, Microsoft will never change its mind. So, you can be certain that they will never "decide" that their once-free product needs to come at a price.
I mean, I turned down their "update" for their product because I didn't want to have to pay for it when they decided to.
Besides, MS security products seem to have a pinchant for being thwarted. I like a 3d party tool to keep MS honest and my computer safe.
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
So, in order to make IE competitive with FireFox, the management of Microsoft was forced by the economics of the market to give anti-spyware software away -- for free. Basically, FireFox and its startling growth in marketshare forced Microsoft to be generous.
Bill Gates once said that your computer screen is the most valuable piece of realestate in the world. The management at Microsoft intends to continue to be the owner of that realestate.
Oh. Yes. "Thank you, Mozilla and Firefox! A job, well done!"
One person stopped it by creating a fake log file of the same name and making it read-only.
Other people claim their version doesn't create a log file.
BEFORE
/. Microsoft!
they were evil because they wanted to charge for something everybody using their crappy OS needs.
AFTER
they will be evil because they will bundle useful software with their OS killing competing third parties.
Have another good day on
Judging from Microsoft's behavior, they believe that spyware is bad - so bad, that they are willing to devote large sums of money to produce a product that they will charge $0 for. Why? I would guess it's because spyware can denigrate overall system performance, making it seem that Windows is slow or insecure.
On the other hand, Microsoft refuses to provide security patches for free. If you haven't paid for a license, they will not provide you with security patches. If spam zombies and worms find their way onto your unsecured system, Microsoft doesn't care. I presume that this is because the spam does not appear to be a problem with Windows.
But it is. I conclude that Microsoft is not concerned with security, but with the APPEARANCE of security.
local brothels will now be offering free penicillin with every night purchased! Come on down, any way it ends up, in a year you will be syphillis free!
Monstar L
OCO is Loco
I spoke to the programme manager yesterday and he said that the desktop product will still be free for Enterprises. I asked about things like GPO integration and centralised policy management and they are planning a server component but this will not be free. No timeframes yet either.
For me this mean that I will stop waiting for the Enterprise version and move striaght to evaluating the competition.
All it takes is for you to type in the URL incorrectly, one time.
Microsoft needs to fix IE's security model.
Instead, they're promising band-aids for removing the crap they allow to be installed in the first place.
thank you for running microsoft anti-spyware.
the following DANGEROUS! COMMUNIST! FASCIST! INFECTIOUS programs were detected and were removed.
future installations of these programs may lead to system slowdowns, resource shortages and critical errors. do you wish to keep your computer safe by adding these programs to autoinstallblock list?
[(green checkmark)OK] [(red international no symbol) Cancel]
---
or even worse:
"all dangerous programs were removed. your system is completely safe and secure with Microsoft product updates automatically installed. all is well. we have always been at war with eurasia."
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
No need to dissect it, just run strace and see what it's doing. There's nothing of any consequence a program can do that won't be revealed by strace.
Wow it only took 2 posts to start bashing MS, oh wait its M$ here isn't it? Go slashdot fanboys!!
I think this is kind of like America in the days prior to WWII. We all kind of wished it would all go away and that if just left things alone nobody would come and bother us. It did not work, and after Pearl Harbor, we awoke to the new reality that we must defend ourselves overseas or be destroyed at home. Ever since America has been pro-active in its regard to security and the world stage.
This is the beginning of M$ looking out upon the world and realizing that it must move on its own, or be moved.
Moderators...please disregard my obvious American slant toward the world. :)
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
It's too hard to make our products truly secure and it's too easy not to. And we have shitloads of money so we'll buy some anti-malware technology we don't care about, from some company we don't care about ... better yet, we'll buy the company ... and incorporate their dogshit into our dogshit. We'll make it free because nobody would pay for it, and cutoff Semantec's and McAffee's air supply. Not because we need to from any strategic standpoint - just because we can. Just because you can do something, is exactly why you should.
Now all we need is for somebody to explain to us why we should devote resources toward getting out virus definitions in less than our own sweet time.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
Keep in mind that it's a beta release and beta releases often log more than necessary in order to diagnose problems because the program is fully released.
Thanks for the laugh! One of the more intelligent jokes made on /. over the past few weeks. Bravo!
That's the same bullshit I hear from them with every single problem.
"Wait until the next version."
"You should upgrade to the newest version."
Why is it so fucking hard for them to just issue a patch for their existing versions?
Gotta love how the moderators support trolling Anti-MS dribble but when the fanboy community of the site gets trashed its delete-on-sight.
I am willing to bet that the final version, or a near future upgrade will be itself what it is trying to detect. Read the EULA carefully. Of course, I have nothing to back this up with, except my own suspicions of Microsoft. But they have been going on about the pirating factor a lot lately. Alright so I'm paranoid.
OOOOH, the internet.
MS Antispyware should count as a patch. Until (and a big IF) they address the problem of spyware at an OS and program level then it is little more than a security update.
The smartest man in the whole, wide world really don't know that much. - Mose Allison
People like you make me really wish someone would start writing software that fucks up Linux PCs.
I laugh at them trying to call it 'Free'. Obviously it only runs on an OS that costs $100+, made by the same company. That's like calling Windows Explorer free, and charging $100 for the NT kernel.
DSO Exploit (for example - there are others!)doesn't require you to open any browser, but can launch bots into your machine.
Just the fact that you are connected to the internet is enough if you machine is unpatched.
It's not ONLY the broswer choices you make that decide if you get botted... Running an unpatched xp system without any firewall or NAT in between will get you botted...
Just using Windows XP is enough. Keep your system up to date... Or better still, keep moaning at MS for creating such a weak system that forces you to install almost 100MB and over 40 patches to become 'slightly' safer than before and still require you to install AV, FW, SB, and Firefox software just to keep it afloat... Then add a dumb (average Joe) user with Administrative rights and start your stopwatch...
Visit London Scalextric Club
...when can I get free anti-spyware for my OS X and FreeBSD systems?
Oh...wait...
I read
The microsoft spyware killer whill have to versions.
There will be a expensive "pro", but but for regualr users there will be a free version too.
The freeversion however will be half its functionality and will be adsupported with 3rd party programs.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
The other day, on my lunch break, I went to look for song lyrics on the 'net. A few hours later, my comp started acting weird. I scanned it and BANG, there were quite a few spyware on it.
Granted, I was running IE (latests patches) on Win2k SP4 with a user that has administrative privileges (which no one should do but heck at my company my only user is admin on all workstations what can I say), and I didn't go surf on porn and/or discutable websites; I went to look for lyrics on regular websites.
Therefore, even though I'm really pissed when I need to clear machines that have spyware (I got 2 this morning only), it's clearly not the user's fault most of the time.
Of course our user aren't admin on their workstation but with all the BHO and ActiveX vulnerabilities, this doesn't prevent crap from being installed......
I now use Firefox at work, even though it's technically prohibited... I don't care. I'm often surfing to look for solutions for many things, and many "anti-spyware" websites contain themselves spywares... I'm not surfing with IE for NOTHING except our internal ticket application and our apps, which were developped using IE-standards.
As someone suggested above, you can just set the file to be read-only and the program won't complain
theres got to be more to it than a public service.. Im sure next week on slashdot we will see the article about how MS-Antispyware has spyware of its own collecting and sending all sorts of stuff that even the spyware people never thought of.. for MS OS and App tracking this is an easy in to your system for them...
Roblimo: How much would these add-on programs cost you? People like you and me, lets say, as a journalist, I too can get free software from anybody. What would it cost you as a regular user?
Martin: Well today, XP SP2 is free if you're a genuine or a valid Windows XP user. It's just a matter of downloading. And today the spyware product that I've downloaded is also a free beta and we've not announced any pricing terms or plans for the product as of yet. So everything I'm using today is free.
I listened to the MP3, and the way he said "as of yet" kinda stuck in my head. I don't think Microsoft will charge for this though... While there are a lot of average Joe users out there that will sheepishly buy whatever Microsoft says they need, the concept of buying extra protection from Microsoft to fix the holes that shouldn't be there to start with might not hold too well with even the most loyal users.
Charging extra for spyware tools would almost give Microsoft a monetary incentive to make the operating system less secure out of the box to make sure there is a market for their spyware tools.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
With it's 7.x version, Red Hat is offering free of charge SSH, an application which encrypts communication between two computers enhancing security
Debian started to include for free a verifier for weak passwords, integrated with "passwd" command.
Novell/Suse, in order to remain competitive, included a firewall in it's Linux kernel, named iptables. No extra charge.
In a special offer, ending never, Mandrake included free of charge Tripware, which checks integrity of the most important system files.
However, none of Linux distributions include a free Spyware or antivirus. Windows is still ahead.
It just flashes "Windows"
"Windows"
"Windows"
"Windows"
I think they will need to fix this.
it's worth every penny.
There is no reset button in life; however, there are bonus levels.
Is this a legal risk for Microsoft? They are providing an add-on for their operating systems that prevents certain applications from working properly. Sure, these applications aren't popular but many of them are legal.
Giving it away free is good route to take, here's why...Those who need it get it for free (like a windows update), but those who don't need it (people who use firefox) don't have to run it. So it's like a windows update in that it's fixing something that Microsoft should be responsible for, yet it's not really required.
By the way if I use Linux and I use apt-get, how do I know that it does't install spyware in the background? I really don't know what all those additional packages do. It's no different than somebody installing Kazaa and just clicking on YES for everything. I trust that apt-get is getting the software I want and nothing else. I've never heard that issue discussed.
This raises an interesting question. Of course you can flame MS down as you want and surely in the past they used integration in the OS to smash down opponents (DoubleSpace vs Stacker, IE vs Netscape).
But, alas, any OS comes with a bunch of applications in the package. Sometimes they can be uninstalled (galeon) sometimes they cannot (internet explorer, konqueror if you use kde) - but does this really matter ? Does the average Joe stop using IE and use Firefox instead if IE could be uninstalled ?
Seriously some applications move towards the OS itself. This was for file compression, for local disk browsers, for disk checking programs, then for internet browsers and for media players. The chance for the third party market to survive lasts as long as the OS integrated tool is not up to (some users') expectations (for example zip folders didn't destroy WinZip's and WinRar's market, and Defrag didn't quite kill third party defragmenters and XP firewall didn't kill third party firewalls).
The question is : how much can be integrated in any OS [or any other product] ? This is a question which hits the Linux market hard, too. Most distros have more and more software integrated every day. Sure it's free software, but when you work at Opera, does really make a difference if you lose your job to Internet Explorer or to Firefox ?
Figure this scenario out : MS buys Jasc (the authors of Paint Shop Pro). They integrates PSP in the OS. Adobe sues MS. MS line of defense is : hey every OS around has a a similar great program built in! Look almost every Linux distro comes with this "the Gimp" installed. Why they can and we cannot ? It's normal for an OS to have a graphics program built in..
This is not to say MS is not interested in blowing away opponents with unfair competition, and I don't want to say that it's wrong to have Linux distros inflated with so many sw packages including office suites (EEK!), browsers, media players, CADs, games, servers of any kind. Still this is a problem which is hard to solve.
that the price of windows goes up ("but less than inflation!") and is justified with "well you get so many good programs with the new version of windows that you didn't get with the old one, so it's fair". Unfortunately, this is never tied to the people who tell us that "IE is free!" or "Media Player is free".
The point is a couple of miles eastward. You may be able to find it now.
During his keynote speech Bill Gates announced that band aids will be given to windows users for no additional charge. Bill also said "We've looked hard at the nature of this problem, and made a decision that KY will also be free."
--Happily removing windows from PCs since '97.
Isn't it just a matter of time before someone turns M$ antivirus/antispyware into a transport mechanism for a virus? I think it would be funny...
My personal peeve.. Anything that randomly, spurriously starts scanning files on my computer is killed with extreme prejudice. Anything that hooks into the opening/reading of files is erradicated with abject hostility. I will be uber upset if this crap becomes an integrated part of the OS.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Heh,
Of course you have not heard it discussed, because any discussion of that subject would be akin to having to admit that there was a potential problem.
Now some would say "Well, those servers only contain vetted code from major distributors so you are safe". But of course not even Red Hat goes through every line of code of their 5 daily updates. I would suspect that at any point some enterprising OSS developer could sign up with an ad spam company and slip their software into his and no one would notice for months (delayed activation etc).
It's coming, and it'll hit Linux like a ton of bricks because the Linux community has their head a good two feet underground WRT these sorts of things.
I will both laugh and cry watching it happen. Hey, actually it's happening now with FF security holes and tests that show it crashes on random HTML data. Hello attack vectors!
I think you have an extra 'anti' in 'MS antispyware program'.
On a more serious note I wonder what they mean by 'free'
MicroSoft AntiSpyware Software
or
MS A.S.S.
Lavasoft has put out something on that in their press release yesterday. The removal is not because of bribes, but because apparently WhenU no longer meets their threat threshold to be included in the spyware definitions database.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
When the program scans, it flags media files and reports them to the MS Anti Spyware community website. Not a problem, but because the program also sends what is known as "basic computer information" including IP address, hardware GUIDs etc, and if it finds
The.Aviator.FullDVDRip.avi 793MB
it will autmatically flag it as suspicious and by the same token share that information with "the MS Anti Spyware Community".
The lesson is, if you use this program TURN OFF THE COMMUNITY UPDATE FACILITY.
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
that eweek url is from RSA 2004 (last year). this is the story from this year's conference.
Will they port it to Linux? Or will I have to run it with Wine?
In the Microsoft world, anti-spyware spies on you!
will they still keep it up to date? Or was making it free just the result of the realization that they would then be held responsible for keeping the definitions up to date?
Being a mac user I normally wouldn't care, but I bought my GF a PC so she could play the Sims, so I kinda have to keep it working for her.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
Spyware has been around for a long time. Microsoft knew about it, they saw it and even were around to watch an entire industry spring up to combat the spyware. Initially they did nothing, simply patched their operatins system occasionally and watched as companies begin to spring up offering combative services to spyware infiltration.
Once an established group of companies, which were both competent and profitable begin showing up, Microsoft started eyeing who to buy. They had discussions with many companies, including Giant and Webroot. They even made Webroot an offer, which was countered and finally rejected by Microsoft. Only then did they decide on Giant (perhaps it was cheaper - not better).
Now, instead of charging they are going to give it away free!! This is awful, and at the very least extremely anti-competitive. It would be one thing if they changed the operating system to be strong enough to eliminate attacks, but buying out an element of an industry they are not involved in (other than having created the need) and then GIVING IT AWAY FOR FREE will cost the jobs and livelihoods of thousands of people!
Why would they do this? I believe it holds the "God" like image that MS seeks to maintain. They wish to provide solutions, without third parties so they can maintain the illusion that they are the be all and end all to the desktop. In fact, MS has admitted in the past that not only do they refuse to be proactive in design, they actually wait until a product is released and simply copy the functionality! Who wants to bet IE7 will contain many FireFox features?
And the problem of course has nothing to do with you products.
How about devoting time to fixing active x and IE instead of cleaning up the problems that they create.
Duh! If MS are including this as part of the OS, the costs associated with it will just be bundled into the licensing fee for the OS, spread across everyone. It's not that it's "free", any more than Internet Explorer was "free". It's simply that *you* *have* *no* *choice* *but* *to* *pay* *for* *the* *acquisition* *and* *development* (plus handsome margin) *of* *this* *bundled* *software*. Jeez. You IT guys need to learn a bit of basic accounting. :)
I look forward to seeing an announcement from Mr Bill Gates saying "We've fixed the problems in Windows, Spyware is a thing of the past!".
I also look forward to the ReactOS team porting the SE-Linux security model to their NT-interoperable Operating System, such that it becomes possible to run Windows programs in a confined manner, thus _also_ making it impossible for Spyware to run...
Smart move not to charge. It limits their responsibility towards that product. When it does eventually collapse in upon itself, people can feel mad, but they can't feel ripped off, like I felt when I bought every iteration of Windows from 3.1 to 2000, and especially with ME.
-- juggling flaming chainsaws --
Isn't this just another anti-trust lawsuit in waiting? I'm sure Lavasoft, McAfee, and Symantec will have something to say. Most of us want a more secure windows world (even me, I use OS X) so I can't fault MS for trying to do better, but what are they thinking?
Clearly there is a thriving market for anti-virus/ anti-spyware software, so MS jumping in with a free product doesn't bode well. If MS had added this product before they they created a market for it, fine. Really what MS should do is remove the market - then it's difficult to complain they are competing unfairly. That would mean producing a more secure OS, which I thought was their top priority for over 3 years now.
I don't mean to bash, the more antispyware the better, I'm just curious... where will this lead?
H.
Gee, thanks.
Maybe we could even make it a security patch???
They won't do it themselves though. A MS distro approach would help alleviate the monopolistic results of things like including anti-spyware.
The fundamental problem is that a useful desktop OS install needs a kernel, utilities, email client, browser, desktop, anti-spyware (if the kernel is windows), etc. If MS provides all of this stuff by default, they tend to get a monopoly...intended or not.
However, if they were forced to vend pieces, from which OEMs or whoever could assemble distros, the anti-spyware companies, browser companies, etc would not automaticly be near death as soon as MS included what they really need to include to have their own viable distro.
This is what the justice department should have driven towards. Splitting off the Office side would not have accomplished this.
makes free of charge the product from such company better in any way, I don't believe we have seen this in the past IE as an example. my 2 cent
I don't see anything preventing them from releasing this for free, installing it as the default everywhere, and making it impossible to disable and/or play nice with any other anti-spyware software. Then, when all the others are out of business, either letting the product rot, or charging for it. Or both.
I mean, it's not as if they've never done that before, is it?...
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
"Anybody know if this is a bug that was fixed, or how to stop it"
Since the software is still a beta do you think that this log could be for debugging purposes? Maybe they are would like to see if what their software is actually doing.
What better way to hook almost every MS Windows user right back to microsoft.com? Not to mention, this would probably mean a weekly or even daily fix( as in drug addict ).
I'll bet that this mechanism will be used for system and application patching too. They already said they were considering a fee based security patching system.
After all, did Bill say the software AND SERVICE were going to be free? I recall only hearing that the software would be free....
None of this is good for McAffee or Symantec investors or employees. Nice knowing you.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
In my opinion, IANAL but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
How long before Mozilla/Firefox is considered spyware?
For that matter, will LILO be considered malicious?
...for better security and anti-spyware. It's called "Longhorn".
They're really going to spin this right in front of the consumer's eyes. They distributed a buggy, hole-ridden system to some huge percentage of computers out there, and now they'll charge people to get off of it with the promise of fixes to these holes.
What I really don't get (or like) is how they'll charge for the betas when they come out. I thought that was the most ridiculous thing when I saw it for XP. Who the hell pays money to test their pre-release software? I can understand downloading and testing a beta for free for the good of the community, but to offload testing costs to the consumer (perhaps even making a profit!) is either stupidity or genius.
Actually, I guess it's genius, considering the success of the program.
Just like Netscape, Microsoft is adding something to their OS add a service that is already available, for free. Perhaps to run the others out of business?
But if you were so inclined, you could easily find out what each of those additional packages does, and even read the source code for them, just by looking them up on the Debian site. So it's not the same thing at all. ;)
...will they be charging Spyware companies more to bypass it, or will they be seeking a higher number of these "marketing partners"?
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
mircooft windoesnot am i rite?
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/16/1 529213
I installed this when it was released and I was pleasantly surprised by how well it worked. However, when I go into my command prompt & try to run, say, "ipconfig", I need to navigate to my system32 directory for it to work. This is all in Win2K - it worked fine *before* I installed the MS AntiSpyware. Try it and see.
... confusing Anti-Virus-Software-Market. ;)
Now there will be only one product which
is used by everyone. This will be like heaven on earth...
Bye, bye, programmers of Sophos, AntiVir, Kaspersky Labs, McAfee and so on. Try to hire @ M$-JobMachine (TM).
Isn't Microsoft benevolent for granting its customers all of these abilities? Almost like an SUV that automatically flips itself upright after overturning due to manufacturer defects. Spyware removal software is the ultimate in ugly hacks... it is a band aid, not an ability.
If they make their anti-virus software free, then they'll they'll surely be sued by Symantec and others. Basically they are trying to buy the anti spyware market and put other companies out of business. Its true that it helps the end users (assuming it doesn't have more holes than it plugs) but utlimately I don't see this as an act of good will but just another way to dominate the software industry. Then again, if there weren't so many holes, Symantec and other wouldn't have grown as big as they are. Microsoft giveth and Microsoft taketh away. Raydude
Ahhh... but wait for the finished GOLD version - that will use a MS Word format as the log file, so you will easy reach 10GB in an hour.
No it's more about theory- that they use IE as a tool to create a monopoly- or windows media player-- Microsoft's entire business model is about creating monopolies- not about innovation, not about being the best- just simply securing power and control. Microsoft has been a criminal organization in the past, and in the EU continues to disrespect the public-trust it was given.
It's why they ship poor products. It's why they are releasing Xbox2 as soon as they can. It's why they lobby governments. It's why they create coalitions. It's why they create DRM.
It is a disgraceful practice, it is both anti-capitalistic, and unethical. Despite the fact they actually fixed a problem they had created, I think it will take a little more for me to garner some semblance of faith in their corporation. I would begin to respect them if they attempted to show that they are willing to work towards creating, and respecting standards that should be available to everyone-- This should be an act of goodwill, and also as a strong desire to see something, such as the internet, progress into something better (and perhaps even profitable to them and others in the future).
It's unfortunate that I had to explain myself in greater detail- but I hope that clarifies things for you.
Well does it?
the updates will cost you.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
that Microsoft doesn't pattent its vulnerabilities instead of patching them. MS could then licens out access to the holes and increas company revenue.
Microsoft Spyware to Be Free of Charge
It's the battle of the minds, and everyone's unarmed.
Now we know how it all started:
The third way Windows AntiSpyware protects users is by stopping the latest threats, and a key piece of this is SpyNet, the worldwide community of Windows AntiSpyware users.
Of course, the "p" will be a "k" soon, because "SkyNet" simply sounds... aehm... friendlier.
And the Terminator is really a very advanced Anti-Spyware drone in auto-clean mode.
Better have a look at the EULA, who knows what they let you sign!
;-)
"Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-my-own-Grandpa." - Dr Hubert Farnsworth
Garbage at any price, even free of charge, is still garbage. And M$ puts out lots of garbage (ie. IE, Windows OS's, etc.).
Install Linux and you won't have too much to worry about in the way of viruses.
Stop insulting microsoft even when they did something good...no matter what they do they are wrong to to alot of people here. I dont like em, I dont trust em, but I will say that when they do things like this that are really good ideas and help millions of people for no profit to themselves I applaud that and wish they did this more...think how much better the computer world would be if microsoft did positive things like this all the time...and I encourage them to do these magnanamous acts more. If this keeps up mabey they can win the hearts and minds of the computing public (though I doubt it)
Just out of curiosity i downloaded it. I saw some stuff about "genuine windows", and wondered if that is related to "penguin windows". After some further reading i estimated that it had nothing to offer for my Windows98 installation. Yes, I still run Windows98.
I could dowload it without being "genuine". I could not install it. It requires Windows 2000.
Why? Is the program so advanced that it uses features that Windows98 does not have? Or is that a beta-feauture? I feel ignored by Microsoft. I paid for my Windows98. It was long ago, but i paid for it.
you still have to pay for the host, right ?
yuk yuk yuk
Isn't this what they got into trouble for with putting netscape under with a free IE? Offering a bundled free product aimed at undermining estblished markets. They paid millions for the Antivirus company and then don't intend to make a profit out of it? If Microsoft didn't have a monopoly this wouldn't be a problem. But they do and it sure sounds like monopolistic bullying to me.
The final installer will detect the OS version and even though it would work on any version of Windows from 9x upwards, it will only allow installation on Windows XP.
Film at 11
thats how i read it at first. Easy mistake, seeing as how that is free too. :)
Lycestra
I love to hate Microsoft, really. My gut reaction to this announcement was that Microsoft will do to anti-spy vendors what they have done to web browsers and I assume that I will be correct on this observation.
Still, the Microsoft monoculture is what got us into this trouble and it is only right that they get us out of it. By offering it for free and by providing regular updates - they can help to fix the problem. My only question about this is: "Why is this different from virus problems?"
I've harped on this before and will probably harp on it again. The biggest problem is the fact that when so many computers share so many similarities, they can get exploited. In one sense, Microsoft isn't the problem, it is the herd like mentality of the public and corporations. Microsoft is simply giving "us" what "we" want (kinda like the friendly neighborhood drug dealer). Still, there isn't enough choice out there in the market; we need more than a couple of choices. Some of those choices should probably be restricted to people/computers with specific needs (hardened OS's for military, police, banking, and so on would be an example).
Will it work on my Linux machine? Or what if I get a Mac? It's very important that this kind of software be cross-platform to deal with spyware threats. Speaking of that, does anyone have some spyware they can send to me for Mac or Linux?
Scott Simontis
Obviously, someone has spyware problem they can't handle.
Microsoft giving away free anti-spyware is like tobacco companies giving away free oxygen tanks. Why doesn't Microsoft fix the Windows operating system so that such band-aids are not required in the first place? Instead of designing their operating system so that it can be used as an advertising platform, they should design it as a secure working environment. What a bunch of pathetics they are...
Where does information go after it has been erased?
Every time Gates says 'innovate', take a drink.
I left my Porsche keys inside Mrs. Glick!
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The reason I think it is "free" is because if it costs money it wont sell. Ironically, since its made by Micro$oft you'll probably end up paying for it somehow. The last security "update" was SP2. For non IE users, or to word that better, non idiots, that did nothing. For IE users, or idiots, it did nothing. Micro$oft wouldn't have to buy the "anti" spyware program if SP2 actually did its job. In my opinion, they would still release it just for the hell of it. Trust me, they will end up directly making money from this.
If GM ever gets into the house-construction business, count me out!
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
Apparantly you can make a dummy file that's read only? AntiSpyware will try to write to it, and since it can't, it gives up (or thinks it wrote to it).
More info on this on either the first post to this article or a child of that post... too lazy to provide a link. Sorry.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
Not sure what MS did to the "Giant" version of this software, but I bought the Giant version about 2 months before MS bought Giant. I've been running it ever since, and I checked my error log file, it was only 42k in size.....
MS Antispyware, Internet Explorere, SP2, et al, are not "free".
I have to buy Windows to use them.
So, in effect, all of these "free" programs are actually the most expensive applications in their class.
Why would I pay a hundred bucks or more for a web browser?
It would be difficult for MS to charge for the software considering what it does. All kinds of issues rise to the surface when you offer stand off software that addresses issues that should find remedy within the original product instead.
... that of the validity of click through agreements, the validity of an agreement that a user failed to understand or perhaps even read, and the legality surrounding third party applications violating the terms and conditions of such contracts.
At that, issues remain aplenty. IF the MS operating system was not directly or casually exploitable by surreptitious third parties, the exploitability of under educated and gullible users remain. That they have wittlessly agreed to terms and conditions of click through contracts is an overriding issue
Beyond that, by Microsoft entering the anti-spyware market and giving their product away free does result in the capture of market share with the very real tendency of denying competitors who wish to charge for product, income. Microsoft may not directly profit from such a venture but they can in significant regard control the market and limit competition.
On the surface, offering a free solution to such a monuental problem can be seen as a significant public relations win for the company, but under the covers we can see the Microsoft monopoly becoming ever more constrictive in result. The effect is encouraging their user base to become even more Microsoft centric through reductions in choice which can lead to higher levels of profitablity down the road which in great liklihood could serve to decrease the imputus to fix the underlying problems with the operating system and ancillary software in the first place.
Obviously such methodology has proven tractable for the company in the past, on slopes of equal if not greater lubricity. I do not doubt for a moment the rewards forthcoming Microsoft in this latest endeavor.
Let's look at the costs involved for MS. Could it possibly be cheaper in dollar terms to grab an anti-spyware tool and not even sell it, versus actually fix ActiveX etc? Well that was easy.
Try it from the other side. How much does the potential risk cost spyware "providers"? Nada. Does it cost MS? Only in mindshare terms to other OS's, in itself worth the cost of anti-spyware.
Notice how neither side thinks of the OS itself as a cost? That's because we're paying. For the anti-spyware, the spyware and the OS. Candy from a baby. You're missing the point if all you're concerned with is whether MS anti-spyware is good or not, that's irrelevant. They're still playing, you're still paying.
Candy from a baby. A whole lot of babies.
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
I first encountered this clusterfuck today at my new job. MS Anti-Spyware has got to be the most annoying fucking software I have ever encountered. It's worse that BlackICE Defender in the amount of frivolous BS it spits out. I can't see any possible use for it other than to greatly annoy the hell out of the user (even highly experienced users, not to mention novices) and chew up valuable CPU time. What a pain in the ass.
Yet another mallware removal tool for windows...
:)
Its like taking headache pills against cancer.
Happy Norwegian Kanotix user
at last some one who see's it like it really is, look at ALL of M$ ventures, and look at there rivals in the early days, and read the PR material relating to them, if the product was a big competitor they sued them, or offered a free version till all major rivals went down the pan.
this is how M$ work.
Personally, I'd run screaming.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Couldn't have said it better. This is one of those /. stories that draws low-brow M$ drones like fat people to an all-you-can-eat buffet.
Loved the eight step spyware removal guide. I'd like to see that drooling progress-bar-watcher disinfect the 3000+ doze boxes I gotta deal with.
Last Post!
M$ sux
WOO HOO
http://www.techimage.net/files/antispyware.png