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Longhorn Preview
prostoalex writes "News.com has up a preview of Microsoft's current build of Longhorn operating system, from Jim Allchin, Microsoft group vice president. The timing is not coincidental with Apple's Tiger release, as Allchin pointed out some advantages that Microsoft had over Apple's OS: 'High on the list of features are security enhancements, improved desktop searching and organizing, and better methods for laptops to roam from one network to another.'" Update: 04/15 21:24 GMT by Z : Thomashawk wrote in to provide links to less formal looks at the Allchin preview, one at his site, and one at Evan William's site.
High on the list of features are security enhancements
...
Ok, so, to bring Longhorn anywhere near the fundamental security that Mac OS X already intrinsically has?
To say nothing of the irony of this statement..."security enhancements"? Over what? Microsoft's previous already-dismal general track record in this area?
improved desktop searching and organizing
Which Apple is already shipping in Tiger, and even Paul Thurrott acknowledges as "exceedingly cool"?
Perhaps this line from the article says it all on this topic:
"In both look and form, the search mechanism is similar to the Spotlight feature in Apple Computer's Mac OS X Tiger, which goes on sale later this month."
and better methods for laptops to roam from one network to another.
...that I can already seamlessly do with Mac OS X's automatic detection of saved wireless network settings, rolling prioritized detection of available network interfaces, and quick switching of locations?
And it goes on like this, mostly as justifications for how Longhorn is really different from Tiger. (No. Really.) The most relevant excerpt is likely "[Longhorn] bears plenty of similarities to Tiger [...]"
Except that one is, you know, shipping this month.
To say nothing of the full-fledged UNIX and X11 environment I have with Mac OS X.
*Yawn*
By the time Longhorn ships, according to Microsoft chairman Bill Gates, PCs will have 4GHz to 6GHz processors, more than 2GB of memory, at least a terabyte of storage, and graphics accelerators three times more powerful than those offered by ATI and Nvidia today. He says that Longhorn is designed to take advantage of all this muscle, and nowhere is that more evident than in the rich, three-dimensional interface known as Aero.
Points to ponder:
1. People don't even want to move to SP2, do you think people will buy all this muscle for Longhorn?
2. What exactly is a 3D interface? Would we need to wear 3D goggles to use it?
3. Longhorn is built around three major advances--a new graphics and presentation engine known as Avalon, a new communications architecture known as Indigo, and a new file system known as WinFS that borrows from Microsoft's relational database technology. Avalon and Indigo are catchy names, but are we going to have loads of compatibility issues?
4. How much MORE is Longhorn going to cost? Is it going to be subscription based?
5. How many software patents are MS going to secure for this?
Iran captures three CIA agents
"High on the list of features are security enhancements, improved desktop searching and organizing, and better methods for laptops to roam from one network to another."
:-)
And you'll see all this and more when it's released in 2007.
Honest.
The fact that Microsoft has had to work hard to try and catch up to OSX's level of security is a Longhorn advantage? Wonder if they made it yet....
Made me laugh: "...document icons are no longer a hint of the type of file, but rather a small picture of the file itself." Now there's a security enhancement. The user will have no clue as to what it will do when they double-click the icon...(not that they ever worried about it anyway).
"As with Windows XP Service Pack 2, security remains at the forefront of Microsoft's development efforts." Right. And it's been proven, after 5 years, how rock solid XP security is...
So, anyone want to bet on how many "critical" system compromising security issues will be found before Longhorn SP1 comes out?
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
High on the list of features are security enhancements Generally speaking, it is much easier to "enhance" security of something which is not all that secure to begin with, so in itself it could hardly be touted as an advantage compared to other OSes.
"You mortals are so obtuse." -Q
'High on the list of features are security enhancements.
'Enhancements'? How can you 'enhance' no security to start with? 0 +0 = 0.
Heh, personally I couldnt care if MS releases longhorn in 2007, I would like to see a windows version that isnt half assed up. Id like to (for once) not worry so much about security too much. Id be willing to wait a few months/a year or two for MS to really make LH as good as they can.
- Teja
Wow! I sure need that, since my OSX installs are all so virus-prone!
has info as well
Basically it's the same shitpile of Perl that has runned this website for years is showing it's age (and suckitude). I hear by the year 2009 Slashcode may actually start generating compliant HTML!
But this part made me go whaaaa?:
Oh, no, thank you very much. First, I don't want those system resources wasted trying to figure out what the icon should look like every time I update or save the file, let along when I move stuff into and out of the folder. Individual icons for items? Sure! But why are we wasting all the extra time that could be used making the OS faster.
And I loved this part:
Oh, for joy. It's not enough just to find what I want, but I need to sort it by things like "date" and "creator" and "file type". Oh, wait - Spotlight will do that too!
The whole presentation sounds a lot like "Hm - another product is coming out now, we need to have a good reason for people to delay. Institute standard plan #2: Convince people that our stuff will be better 'When it's done', so don't buy that other stuff now!"
The question is, with Longhorn at least a year out, will it work any better this time?
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I sure hope that users have fast CPU's and a butt-load of memory. With the new icon "feature" that gives a mini preview of each document in a folder, I can only imagine how long simple navigation will take. And I thought viewing My Pictures in thumbnail mode was slow.
It's the same story Microsoft has told for years.. "Yeah, those other guys might have some cool shit, but the stuff we're working on is WAY better. Don't buy their stuff, wait for our new thing to come out. It'll be available Real Soon Now."
Apple will be releasing Mac OS X Ocelot by the time Longhorn hits the market.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
In both look and form, the search mechanism is similar to the Spotlight feature in Apple Computer's Mac OS X Tiger...
M$ Longhorn Strategy
1) Develop Operating System
2) Steal aspects of other operating systems
3) ???????
4) Profit!
pointed out some advantages that Microsoft had over Apple's OS
I've lost count of the number of articles, comparisons, and reviews of Longhorn I've come across in the last two years that tout some *advantage* over another OS (usually OS X).
What possible relevance does that have to me (or anyone else) right now considering no one will be able to buy copy for the next two years, if then? Meanwhile in the last two years OS X has served me very well, certainly better than a nonexistent OS could have.
At this point, continuing to sing Longhorn's praises to the consumer is about as logical as advertising the fact that Duke Nukem Forever will support the ability to fire 10 guns at once. If software companies never deliver the product, the feature set it has couldn't really be more irrelevant.
We'll see OSX on an intel platform by then... but then again, prolly not. Been discussed before, but wouldn't it sweet to see side-by-side comparisons, on the same hardware, etc, of MacOS and Windows?
So as a fanboy with nothing to do on a friday afternoon with no class I must take issue with the whole easier to roam from network to network thing... As a student at a private California university (not ucsc as per my name), we have different wifi networks all over the place. I'm using a PBg4 with airport express and mac os 10.3.8. Whenever and wherever I open up my laptop, it automatically connects me to the best (or predetermined) network available, and it usually takes 5 seconds. The only time i've had to open up my Network connection system prefence is when i failed to realize that my airport express base was unplugged!
Allchin pointed out some advantages that Microsoft had over Apple's OS:
-features are security enhancements
OS X, unix-based since 10.0: Got it already!
-improved desktop searching and organizing
Spotlight... got it!
better methods for laptops to roam from one network to another
Location Manager... Got it since OS 8!!
SOOOOO good!
I think they mean -1 + 1 = 0 .
PimpMyMazda.com - Crazy mods to a 2002 Mazda Protege DX.
How many people trashed tis article over at osnews and are now over here trashing it again?
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
"document icons are no longer a hint of the type of file, but rather a small picture of the file itself"
Wang was doing this circa 1991 on AT-class hardware.
I didn't think it was all that cool at the time and I don't think it's a particularly good idea now.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Now I'll admit I'm a happy windows user. I have Knoppix and Ubuntu close by but for the most part I use windows...because it works for me. I does what I want it to do and does it at an acceptable level. I for one am both excited and disappointed about Longhorn here's why:
:-( ...maybe that's just me). I enjoy the concept of steaming video to any window and think that eliminating the difference between web and desktop apps is great. I didn't like what they pulled with WinFS but if it means the final product is better, than I say fine by me.
Longhorn is a big update for Microsoft, they're planning big changes, many of them multimedia. I like the 3D enviroment and Avalon graphics (Though I still want animated program icons
"designed to take advantage of all this muscle"
Y'know, like "to fuck with", "to shag" etc?
I never can tell with MS, after all they have redefined the meaning of so many words and terms; innovation, secure, reliable, scalable etc etc.
Deleted
"After months of keeping its prized cow in the barn..."
In keeping with the analogy, this OS is truely a hefer.
THIS is what they're touting as the stand-out feature in their new operating system? You could do this on a Mac since System 7, but pretty much nobody bothered except for image files since a thumbnail of a text document is next to worthless. You could even do it for bitmaps in Windows 95 if you didn't mind your computer grinding to a halt every so often.
It's something that could easily be implemented on a program-by-program basis in OS X. If they think its so great, they could do it in Office X today instead of waiting for Longhorn. Hopefully they'll let you turn it off.
This is the same thing I heard when Billy visited Berkeley last semester! WTF? Why are they stalling?
-Palal
This is standard Microsoft marketing procedure, coming out with stuff on their forthcoming product just when a competitor is making a major release. It's a technique to muffle the media impact made by the competition. So instead of featuring Tiger on the cover, newspapers and magazines will play "Tiger vs. Longhorn: which will win?", ignoring the fact that one of them is just an announcement.
i really love the default setup for Mac OS X, and while I understand XP can be made to look like just about anything, i truly hope they get some better design people in there by the time Longhorn is actually released.
sure it's petty... but to those who have to look at it all day, it's important.
From the makers of "Free ,as in costs money" we have "advatage, as in Same thing later". ..
I have to ask which dictionary they are using
Seriously i know marketing people are usualy full of crap , but normaly they try to avoid silly statments that are near out and out lies
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Almost. He just got the verb tense wrong. I think he meant to say that Longhorn will have advantages over Tiger. Hmm. Maybe not, since most of the things he listed will be in Tiger first. Maybe he meant to say it would have advantages over Panther. Or Jaguar. Or Puma. Or Cheetah?
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Well, if by Linux you mean DEs like KDE. I already have this feature, but I don't use it because I prefer the detailed list. It does make browsing through pictures easier.
I'm still trying to figure out what innovation we're seeing here. So far it just looks like a collection of eye candy taken from OSX and KDE. As for security? They should go require one root account and regular user accounts. They have enough time to let other software companies know the details so if their software won't function properly they can fix it.
I mean if they want to simply copy features left and right, then I don't really care so much. But they shouldn't act like these are important innovations.
The most important of which is compatibility. Windows will run on an endless combination of different vendor's processors, motherboards, etc etc. Windows has the whole PC thing going for it. With Tiger you are locked into Apple hardware.
now before you dismiss this as a simple scoff, I am (attempting) to make a valid point here. What is the number one reason people stay away from Mac? I submit that it is price. Not price of the OS Tiger, but price of "The Comptuer" you have to buy. Imagine the ability to have something as solid, feature rich, and protected as Tiger, that you can run on a relatively powerful system you made from parts you bought off of newegg for $600. Personally, I believe that's worth waiting for.
Basically what I'm saying, I guess, is if Longhorn can be ALMOST as good as Tiger it will be:
1. A vast vast VAST improvement over the windows we currently have
and 2. Will be more appealing due to the cost factor.
I don't use it now, but I'd run OSX in a heartbeat if I could do it on a PC.
2006?!? Try 2007!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Which, unless you're looking to switch computers now, is irrelevant. Either you own a Mac (I do) and you're stoked (or underwhelmed) by Tiger, or you don't. If you don't own a Mac, Tiger's irrelevant. For those poor souls, I imagine Longhorn SP1 can't come soon enough (I'm pretty much assuming you don't want whatever ships first). XP was a dated OS when it first shipped.
I don't understand the compare/contrast thing. None of these features are truly new anyway, so it's really not MS copying Apple. Apple's main advantage is being able to get them to market faster.
If anything, the lesson is that the whole "We're going to release an OS you'll use for the next 10 years" thing is an increasingly bad idea. It means the OS is obsolete before it goes beta. Apple's model seems to work well, particularly if you buy maybe every other update. Wouldn't it be better to get the framework of a working OS out there, then sell feature add ons? Otherwise, SPs are just bug fixes. Seems to me the only part that really needs to be part of the core OS at release is probably WinFS, but..
If there was a clearly better OS out there then why are people still using windows?
Lack of education about alternatives and Microsoft FUD.
That would be just two reasons. I haven't even started with the predatory monopolistic practices.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
"... as Allchin pointed out some advantages that Microsoft had over Apple's OS: ..."
If it has so many advantages then ship it!
Linux does do a damn good job of file icon previews (when it's a file that your file manager recognizes), but it's not really an original feature.
Mac OS has had per-file icons, typically used by apps to define a preview, since at least System 7 (my first experiences). It's generally only used by image apps, however; turns out the name and a nice icon representing the file type is frequently more informative.
Next thing you know, there'll be a hot new innovation -- resource forks! *grin*
Because just because something is technologically better doesn't mean that it's (a) easier to use, and (b) marketed more.
In the case of OSX part of the problem is that it is for only one platform and that platform is expensive compared to the cheap internet computers you can buy at Wal-Mart. As such Joe L-User only has real experience with the basics of Windows and they know that it "looks pretty" and "does what they need it to do", once you add in the fact that they hear that "Linux is hard to use" and you have word of mouth working against other OSes.
Long story short, Linux is always going to have problems getting major wide spread appeal as long entry level computers come loaded with Windows - if they were pre-loaded and pre-configured to run Linux in a desktop environment then odds are the word-of-mouth appeal of Linux would start to change and more people would start using it.
However, in the mean time people want "pretty" desktops that they can use to send baby pictures to Gramma with, and the hardware companies want Microsoft to come out with bloated OSes so that people have to upgrade their computer every two years.
I think you missed the point. There isn't really an issue with Microsoft copying the feature from elsewhere... it's the fact that they are claiming that they are breaking new ground by doing it.
Sadly you're right, the bloat is terrible in the modern versions of windows. Longhorn might not take years to be accepted if we can do one thing. Find something that you need longhorn to do that lots of people/companies will want. Maybe that should be what microsoft puts it's R&D into.
Made me laugh: "...document icons are no longer a hint of the type of file, but rather a small picture of the file itself." Now there's a security enhancement.
I think that files with viruses in them show a little icon of you reintsalling the OS, as a portent of the future you might have by opening it. So I guess that's security related. By default it ships with an icon of Balmer doing the installation unless you have a USB camera hooked up, then it automatically detects an install and takes a snap while you're in hour two for best effect!
Who says Microsoft cant innovate.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
OS X has image thumbnail icons as well, although the feature can be turned off. (When you're working with 12,000-pixel-wide panoramic images, thumbnails just aren't that helpful.)
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Other than for home users, what's the point of powerful desktop searching tools? In most corporate environments, all of the files are kept on the file server. None of these "desktop" search tools extend the powerful search capabilities to the terabytes of storage on the file server. The search tools (and index) should reside on the server with a desktop-like interface on the desktop. Every user should not be indexing the server.
Allchin said that Longhorn also goes further than Tiger when it comes to what one can do with search results, saying it offers new ways to organize and view the information.
"We got both kinds of search views. We sort by date OR time!"
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
When was the last time a Windows release felt any pressure from a competitor?
When did Apple first start development on the Macintosh?
I wish that I was a catfish.
I would like to see a windows version that isnt half assed up.
To the contrary - I have yet to encounter a Windows release that was not complete ass.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
True, true. This "ground-breaking" feature is only ground-breaking as far as the Windows family is concerned. However, the Windows family of operating systems is the only family most people are familiar with. Sure, my grandma's heard of Linux, but she hasn't heard of KDE or Gnome, and she has never before seen an icon that shows the contents of her crossword puzzle. It's people like my grandma that Microsoft cares about because there are millions of grandmas out there.
This is MS's way of leading the masses to believe they are cool.
http://nerdfortress.com/
I mean who needs these features in a typical office enviroment not to mention mom and pop user. The only real power users out there today are the Gamers and they aren't going to be happy to give up cycles just to have some cool 3D in their OS.
Could it be that MS has finally pushed to far and bet too much?
Are we going to be FORCED to use this OS by some self serving argument that it will "MAKE AMERICA SAFER, and whiten teeth"tm ?
You may feel I'm being a bit anti Microsoft here but they really have gambled a bit, as have the hardware companies or are they looking for this to create more demand (quick answer OF COURSE), and they are going to create an OS that 99% of us do not need.
What I want is an OS thats fast and doesn't get in the way of me working with graphics, fiddlin with creating movies, playing music or blowing things up in Unreal. Longhorn?, don't thinks so, not from what I've been reading.
Its like the OS IS the experience and everything your doing and that high powered machine you bought to do it on be dambed cause we know you want your 3D interface!!
Microsoft needs to hire about 200 Russian coders, stick em on an island with nothing but PII 450's and 20GB of total hard drive space and tell them they get paid when Longhorn runs on their machines!!
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Believe it or not, people educated about the alternatives *still* use XP.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Aren't those small and non-ferocious? I suppose ocelots could nibble at the remains of the cow after the tiger's had its fill.
Maybe we need a product named "Jackal" or "Vulture."
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
I'me sure OS/2 Warp delayed Win95. Workplaceshell is still a better interface than XP is even today, IMHO.
Of course, the market felt differently.
What do you replace the default shell with?
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Well, obviously.
Different things are better. For example:
Linux is better than Windows or Mac, because it's different.
Mac is better than Windows or Linux, because it's different.
Windows is better than Linux or Mac, because it's different.
Arby's is different. Different is good.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
I mentioned that Longhorn would show a "preview" as the document icon to a family member who is less than computer savvy and she thought it was the greatest idea ever. She really did say "that's why windows is great..they're always improving the way things work." When I told her the mac had this for ages, she shrugged and said 'I never used a mac.'
People like my sister-in-law are the perfect audience for microsoft...she doesn't know anything different from windows at all, thinks that everything they do was their own original creation, and after cleaning her machine of netsky and some random spyware programs, shrugs again and asks if she lost anything. Doesn't care, isn't curious, does what she's told. The worst thing is that she's totally comfortable with this state of affairs because she figures that's the way things are, that's the way it'll be.
Aaarrrgghh!!
Seriously, I read the review and I was so underwhelmed I almost fell asleep.
Don't get me wrong - on my 2004 tax return there's a line item for $1099 for Microsoft software, I'm just saying the feature list was the kind of thing that made my eyes glaze over.
Where's the killer ap? Or should we all just give up and switch to Linux/BSD/Apple?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Drop shadow? cmon. I want Transparency, 3D transparency with live wobble effects.
Advanced physics rendering(Timedilation is on the top of that) groundbreakting 4D sound and cute livelike figures telling me where to click.
I want to be able to see 2 movies fullscreen at 70% transparency and have word crashing beneath it all, while I'm searching for the cach of my lost documents with the all new and inovative desktopsearch.
Sure it ain't productive but if I wanted to be productive I wouldn't have an internetconnection.
I agree with you on this - the Windows interface does what it needs to without irritating doodads. If I wanted my screen to be full of gagues, monitors, icons, times, weather notifiers, scales, buttons, fish, alerts and text inputs then I'd use Linux. As it is, I quite like my XP shell. It has minimise, fullscreen/restore and close buttons for each window, a bar of running programs, some handy links, a 'main menu', and the time.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
"In a brief demonstration, Allchin showed off several key features that make the new OS stand out from prior versions. A "quick search pane," for example, allows users to type queries and instantly see matching files." So I guess years after linux and unix based systems microsoft boasts about the feature everyone else already has! Hey why not, some idiot will think its never been done before and buy it just for that! Ignorance all the way!
Microsoft PR and Marketing dep. should be very desperate because all press raves about Apple products - iPod, MacMini and now THIS!? Of coarse, they should do something.
But this something, in the light of delayed release date (about which fact I hadn't doubt about even before Microsoft SWORE that it will be released in 2006), is actually pure example of BAD marketing, because Microsoft usually somehow be more 'cool' about itself. As someone poster pointed out - Microsoft is forced to compete. And as we see, they simply can't handle so much heat.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
The only thing that Longhorn is is Windows attempt to try and catch up to all the other OSes out there that are better. It's *trying* to become more stable, but I'll hold my breath on that one. It's creating easier searching, but Tiger is doing that. It's providing file previews, woopty doo, multiple other OSes can do that. Nothing here is innovative, new, or otherwise. It's exactly what everyone else does, except needing a lot more RAM and CPU power.
Actually, the only reason I bought another hardware platform was to get a laptop, and Mac OS X. Why wait for Longhorn, and another 6 years before laptop technology can drive it when I can get a Powerbook that works better for most things than a Windows desktop today?
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Well, WinXP still has Progman.exe, if you like that kind of thing...
You can change the names pretty easily, but it doesn't carry over beyond My Computer and highly Windows programs. I am able to remember five letters of drives... its simpler than remembering that I haven't mounted /boot where I think I have, or knowing everything deeper than x directory is on a different partition.
I've grown up using drive letters, its exceedingly simple. And I have had no trouble with removable media, it just finds the first available letter and sticks it there.
They're actually competing. When was the last time a Windows release felt any pressure from a competitor?
That is pretty impressive. Seriously, when was the last time Coke mentioned Pepsi? Usually the dominating brand just ignores the little guy, from their POV they aren't competing, they are barely playing in the same sandbox. The fact that MS is trying to justify their system is better (and not 2 weeks from shipping) shows that Apple, at least to some degree, has them worried about losing sales.
I was looking for the "take me to your leader" line towards the end of your post and I couldn't find it. Phew!
In reading the PC Magazine review (parent above), my major impression was that Longhorn is really trying to capitalize on all the FUD that America is in, kind of a Homeland Insecurity version of Windows to make it safer.
Guess their marketing people think most consumers are very very scared, is all I can say.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Believe it or not, people educated about the alternatives *still* use XP.
My commments were not intended to be exclusive, but there is a body of evidence in the form of user polls that indicates that Microsoft users are largely unaware of any alternatives to IE. Given that users will not explore alternatives beyond a simple browser, it makes my case a bit more strong that they will also not investigate alternative OSs.
Simply put, most folks will not venture out beyond the OS that came pre-installed in their first computer. That leads into a discussion on predatory pricing and strong-arm monopolistic practices by Microsoft.
Care to argue against court transcripts?
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Your being humorous right? Or have you only worked Dos and Windows?
On a Mac each device appears on the desktop as its mounted, I believe linux windows managers can do the same.
You want to copy from one flash device to another, just drag the contents.
If you need to more direct control of the device you could just pop open a terminal window and work directly with the mounting points but that would be rare.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
The computer will just assume that the user doesn't want the movie muted and probably wants to watch it full-screen.
I hate it when my computer makes these kinds of assumptions.
Lemme get this straight.
Microsoft: "We don't have Longhorn ready yet, but Tiger, that OS from that other company, is shipping in 14 days if you want a 99% approximation of our OS that will ship in two years."
Apple: "Mac OS X 10.4 'Tiger': Even Microsoft Says It's Good."
Isn't Rule Number One of advertising never to mention the "leading brand" by name? Sheesh, you'd think M$ would have learned by now.
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
From TFA:
For example, a PC with Longhorn might show all the music files together, whether they are on the local PC or another machine on the network.
I'm surprised, this already works on my WinXP machine. The application is named iTunes.
Oh wait...
But I know it isnt "Release"
(im fairly certain its not "Sell OS" either)
Eclipse runs well, and recent version of C++ environment is usable, and integrates with Cygwin GDB, make and GCC nicely. So dev environment is covered.
XP Pro and server 2003, with no frills interface - as a loo-ong time Linux user I do actually prefer to work in Windows nowdays. And I worked on them (almost) all, from PDP11 and CP/M to NextStep and OS X and KDE 3 and what not...
Whatever.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Tough times ahead for MS.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Ok, I just have to have my say about this.
Personally Ive never bought any MS windows product, hell Ive never bought ANY MS product, besides maybe a few games. What I love is how everyone would jump all over MS simply because they feel they need to defend what it is they "use", whether its OSX, Linux, whatever. I personaly since windows 98, have never seen a blue screen. Never have I been hacked. Never have I gotten a virus. Of course I may have gotten ad-ware/spyware, but when your the biggest player in the market these virus/adware/spyware writers are going to target your product. If OSX was as big as Windows is, there would be just as many problems.
People always complain about how incompatable Windows is, well, again when your the big dog and your not running on a "set" hardware platform (read Apple), there will be compatability issues. People always complain about how insecure (read spyware/adware/virus's), well tbh a computer/software is only as good as its user. If a user thinks they can buy a world-wide, huge market piece of product and simply plug it in and be totally secure, your sadly mistaken. If you dont have a firewall, its your fault, not the OS. They TRIED to fix that problem by making a firewall. To be honest, I would much rather them spend the time improving other aspects, then trying to make thier product foolproof. Of course, by TRYING to make thier product foolproof, its just making them more money, so im all for it I guess.
I know im going to get flamed, but it really pisses me off when people complain and complain about windows, yet I bet almost 75% of them are compaining about it, on a windows machine. If you dont like windows, dont use it, dont bitch about it. Your statement of simply not using it is more then enough.
For the record I also use Linux, so dont think im a windows freak. Personally I would NEVER think about Apple OS's due to the simple fact there is no reason for me to.
XP Pro and server 2003, with no frills interface - as a loo-ong time Linux user I do actually prefer to work in Windows nowdays.
Which means that it is mainly a discussion of preference. No doubt that is the case with all OSs.
I use Linux and other FOSS software because my life is already complicated enough without having to track and manage licenses for every workstation in my house. I've given up on the idea that I must orient my life and work around the demands of Microsoft and Adobe.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Seriously man. The grass is pretty green over here, and gets greener all the time. This isn't an idle boast or even zealous mactivism. Everything you're mentioning is literally in Panther or about to be released in Tiger.
If Longhorn really is 2 years out, it's possible we'll see OS 10.5 by the time it comes out. Think about the position Apple is in. They've beaten Longhorn to market on a whole slew of features, and done so with at least a year (if not more!) to spare. 10.5 can continue to push forward and serve as a feature bulwark against any surprises that Microsoft might be able to come up with for the Longhorn release.
Are you really going to wait another 12-24 months for a product that's going to be released in less than one?
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
At what point did we not see this comming? Microsoft copy something apple did? No?! I think Microsoft should just stick to ripping ideas from the open source group. That way it's less obivious when they do take something (ie. files are shown as a graphical preview 'kde/gnome')
Oh woe is microsoft.
They have found out that rewriting an entire operating system to clean up bad code and faulty processes because of undocumented bugs, and other Big Business Corporate Manhandling problems is a HUGE waste of time. Apple writes good code that can be reused and reused! No need to throw things into the mislabled Recycling Bin, you can keep and improve them.
Too bad for Microsoft, even those 5 years of operating expenses saved up cannot help that much.
Check journal for info on Anti-TextBook, an idea by me.
where's the changelist?
Oh boy.. Not ANOTHER operating system.. And I'm already FED up with cleaning spyware.. oh my .. oh my..
In the Soviet Union, signatures writes you!
Did you see the /. post from an Apple dev a few days ago, saying that putting the windowing interface in 64 bit actually slows it down due to longer pointers, and doesn't have any benefit? The claim was that, if they created 64 bit versions of the interface code, they would then have had to tell their developers not to use them. In the meantime, all of the proc-intensive tasks that would benefit from 64 bit are already using it, and the proc is designed such that using whichever is appropriate doesn't impose a performance penalty ...
I guess my real question is, do you know something I don't (most people do), or are you just "hoping Tiger is finally a fully 64 bit version" because 64 is twice as much?
I agree. Windows should really drop the A,B,C naming scheme and rely on Volumes Names like OSX. Think GUI as well by design unique icons for the different type of media because pictures are more intuitive
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Well that's simple. The same reason someone told me the other day that to get on the Internet you had to use Internet Explorer. And you do, right?
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
The one reason that Mac prospers is that they actually do have a port of Microsoft Office...
For the sake of accuracy, it should be pointed out that Office for Windows is the ported version -- Office originated on the Mac and the Mac version still has some features the Windows version doesn't.
I guess that is why I have just spent half an hour on Slashdot. But I do have an excuse (meeting). :)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Yeah, but when did MS finally get around to making something functionally comparable? Windows 95 maybe? That's over a decade. I don't think MS had engineers so incompetent that it took them 10+ years to figure it out. They just weren't in any hurry.
Of course, the fact that Apple was making plenty of mistakes in the 90's didn't put any extra pressure on MS.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Hah, some review. Not even close--it was a retyping of the Microsoft PR sheet. How do I know--look at the "similar" articles from the other sites.
Maybe it is just me, but I never ran any anti-virus with Windows until this last year (I didn't require it, but I just wanted to be sure). Every OS update I have ever had has never broken anything I do. I do no manual system maintenance besides upgrading drivers and updates. I have never had any issues with security. The first firewall I ran was with SP2. By the way, I leave my machine on 24/7 connected to the internet. I guess me having some training in networking and system administration (and keeping windows up to date) makes my computer inpenetrable... What I am looking for in an OS is not some pretty crap that is really nice but more expensive and lacking in what I want or a 'free' OS that takes all my time to configure and run the ~150 games and programs (480GB and almost full :/) I have no problems running in Windows.
I spent $200 for Windows XP Pro back in 2001 (price is WinXP OEM with a 512MB stick of DDR).
Why isn't everyone here wanting to see Longhorn in all its glory before crying foul at MS. This isn't Windows 95, 98 or Me (yes they were all crap).
Allchin pointed out some advantages that Microsoft had over Apple's OS
Which consist of being able to save search results, and a huge customer base of suckers.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
First, even without a default shell, you can use either a hacked uxtheme.dll (free) or StyleXP (not so free) to replace the theme. Head over to customize.org to witness what you can *really* do with XP.
Second, explorer.exe isn't bad, but litestep is even better - makes it a lot more fun to use. google "litestep xp" to see what I mean.
Third, I don't personally enjoy using the start bar, so I use a freeware program I found someplace on the net to hide it (still accessable with the Windows button) and use a dock like yzdock. YzDock is free, quick, and fairly bug-free, but is no longer in development (as it was shut down by Apple). So much more convenient to group togther ten or so commonly-used programs, a restart/shutdown button, clock, mail checker, and weather report into an aesthetically-pleasing package. The result? No icons on desktop. Interesting theme that replaces the Tonka Truck default. Using Litestep makes your comp that much faster. Add in the other advantages of XP (more games, apps, cheaper hardware over Apple, wider peripheral support than Linux) and in my opinion you've got a winner.
The problem is that you have to pay for XP, which makes it more expensive than Linux, but it ultimately costs less than a comparable OS X box (hardware is cheaper, software is roughly the same). It also takes some time to set this up, but once you've done it a few times, it takes probably 10-15 minutes after a fresh install.
So no, this post and the parent is *not* a troll - I'm simply expressing an opinion. Microsoft has monopolistic tendencies, yes, but in terms of ease of use, I think that they release pretty good products. Viruses and malware? Comes with being the most popular OS - if everybody had Macs, the situation would be reversed.
Anyway, that's the joy of being in a free market; I get to pick the OS that I want to use, and others can use Linux or OS X if they feel that those products are better.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Crap sorry just re-read parent. Pneumonia and the drugs that go with it real take their toll on /. replies. oops sorry.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Hell, I forgot to mention in my reply below that I use Opera instead of IE. I know that a lot of alternative users like Firefox, but I'm used to Opera after using it for so many years, and I can't stand the thought of going back to IE. I really don't care about the people who head to Best Buy and buy a computer with XP pre-loaded; I build my own comps and still purchase an XP licence. Yes, most users are ignorant of alternatives, but to be honest the main reason that Microsoft is so popular is because it's bundled, not because it's necessarily better.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
I want to know what they had for dinner! Microsoft is for sure paying, so I want to know where the money of the people buying Windows and Office go!! I demand an answer. :-))
It's the Type-R obsession back to harass us all again. People, apparently including the parent to your post, have this silly notion that everything has to be "fully 64-bit" even when it serves no damn purpose (and even when it slows things down!).
64-bit is not a panacea. 64-bit is useful where it is useful, but that's not everywhere. Just like you don't ride around in a U-Haul truck around 365 days a year because it has a lot of room, you don't need 64-bit support in, say, TextEdit or the window manager.
What are you going to do with 64-bit addressing in a simple text editor or the window manager? Nothing. Nothing at all.
I drive a Jeep. It's got four wheel drive. I'm not going around complaining about how all the roads immediately around me are paved -- they don't diminish my ability to use my four-wheel drive when appropriate. So it is with 64-bit processors. Not everything needs to be optimized for them. Some applications won't see any benefit, and some may even see a performance decrease (kind of like how tooling around town in 4Lo just because you can will leave you without a drivetrain).
Do anyone really want a 64-bit version of TextEdit just so you can say your OS is completely 64-bit optimized? Give me a break.
I also saw Allchin's roadshow. The icons scale on the fly, like desktop icons in Mac OS X. You can work a slider to bump them up to a fairly large size.
Breakfast served all day!
Another $129 to spend on some minor features additions and bugfixes. God I love apple.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
I also saw Allchin's roadshow. When talking about security and stability enhancements, he had a few things to say.
1. NX (No eXecute) will be native to the OS in both the 32-bit and 64-bit editions.
2. Running as a pure 64-bit OS requires all 64-bit drivers, which means all your device drivers will need to be rewritten. This is good, however, because Microsoft is also taking steps to streamline the driver creation process, provide cleaner templates, and do more to certify device drivers from third parties. Most of the crashes you experience on XP today, he said, are the result of bad device drivers.
3. Some of the malicious code out there right now works by installing itself as a device driver, meaning it has access to virtually anything. Allchin said he believes changes they are making to Windows would prevent even those device-driver Trojans from doing damage in the future.
4. Internet Explorer will run in some kind of "sandbox mode" that will prevent malicious code from damaging other parts of the system. How locked down IE will be will depend on which Zone you're browsing; as is the case now, the intranet zone might less secure than the Internet zone. I asked him if this sandboxing was being done through Connectix technology and he said no, it's not virtualization, it's something else. He credited it to integration with the core OS, though -- he said that this version of IE would definitely not be available for XP or any other version of Windows.
Breakfast served all day!
If you like Cygwin -- you may also enjoy Microsoft Windows Services for Unix. In my opinion, it's much closer to Unix than Cygwin. It uses BSD code and some GPL (it includes GCC and friends.) It's not as usable as a default install of Cygwin is, but there's some precompiled software availbale for it. Programs in/compiled with SFU run in an actual kernel-level POSIX subsystem called Interix, instead of Cygwin's Unix-like layer that runs under Win32. Unix permissions are emulated (I believe) and programs don't have .exe on the end. GCC is supported, and in general (as someone who is used to using BSD/Linux) is much cleaner and nicer than Cygwin.
I'd guess that more programs would compile unmodified in SFU compared to Cygwin (assuming you're using GCC), but I have no evidence/experience to back this up.Yeah, if by "security enhancements" microsoft means longhorn is just XP Pro + Pear PC + Mac OS X 10.4 then yeah, it's secure.
Believe it or not, while most of Allchin's talk focused on client-side stuff (the UI, desktop search, etc.) he opened with an overview of the Windows market in general. When discussing the server, he characterized the two leaders as Windows and Linux.
Linux, he said, is "expected to be the winner with its lineage from Unix, but we're happy because we're winning market share."
On a stack of Bibles, that is from the horse's mouth.
Where the client side is concerned, however, he pointed to charts showing Windows desktop growth year-over-year being somewhere in the realm of 10 percent, and said, "our growth is bigger than the whole Mac installed base."
For what it's worth.
Breakfast served all day!
How do you titillate an ocelot?
Oscillate its tit a lot.
wait a minute, my school is still using win98se....as if anyone wants longhorn
as Allchin pointed out some advantages that Microsoft had over Apple's OS: 'High on the list of features are security enhancements, improved desktop searching and organizing, and better methods for laptops to roam from one network to another.'" how is that something that microsoft has "over apple"? maybe apple doesn't have to boast "security enhancements" because it doesn't get hacked once a month. apple has improved desktop searching and organizing, too (spotlight). i don't know about the better network changing capabilities, but they have a far way to go to compete with os x (seeing how wireless is 10x harder to get working in windows. i got it working on debian much more intuitively). i do own an apple, but i also use windows a lot and appreciate some of the things it can do. security and searching, at the end of this month, will come standard with OS X. they won't come standard with windows until middle of next year, and even then it's arguable that it will actually be secure.
best college pickem site ever: pickem.terrbear.org
While reading the whole thing, it seems to me that MS is trying to make every single feature so important. When there were competing with themselves, everything was an evolutionary, stupdendous advancement. Now, if they tried that, there would be lots of people to correct them. No, OS X already has that. That's been a part of Linux for a year.
The other thing about the comments of some of the "features". Some of them are improvements. Some of them are merely eye candy. But many of the improvements they mention that actually add to the functionality of Windows users will be in OS X next month.
Apple's campaign at least tries to relate why the feature is important to your average Aunt Sally. For example, Core Image. It's listed as a feature. At a first glance, it's under the better imaging area. If you're interested, you can find out that it seems to be a low level API interface for video cards. At the high level, it succinctly implies that CoreImage will enhance your images.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
There is one Thing in Longhorn I'd like to see in OS X. It was rumored before the release of Panther, but it was only a rumor: Stacks. IMHO it`s nice to arrange all the files via a single click after various aspects like filesize, filetype or modification date.
Umh, okay, perhaps I`ll discover this functionality in Tiger when it finally arrives in 2 weeks...
this sig is useless
The way this is written implies that this is a list of features that Longhorn has which Tiger does not have.
If you read the actual C|Net article, it's not written quite so slanted. First off, nowhere in the article is security said to be an improvement over OS X (any version), but rather, over previous versions of Windows. Allchin does state his belief that Longhorn's searching is better than Tiger's Spotlight feature -- mainly in ways you can do useful things with search results. (Then again, Tiger is due out this month, a full year before Longhorn, and no doubt Apple will offer incremental updates to the feature set via Software Update.)
Laptops doing network roaming is something that's been well-supported in OS X for quite some time now, so again, this isn't something Microsoft can claim as an advantage. Certainly anything is an improvement over WiFi support in XP (though I'm told SP2 fixes some of the worst problems).
The icons representing actual file contents (or folder contents, for folder icons) sounds great at first -- but this is the kind of feature that, if poorly implemented, could really kill performance. There's a reason that icons traditionally are an abstracted representation of the type of file data or the application to which the file belongs.
If Microsoft implemented this feature right, it wouldn't be too much of a performance hit -- basically, they'd only have to cache a thumbnail image of the file's contents (or the first page of the file's contents), and only update the cache when the timestamp on the file is newer than the timestamp on the thumbnail. But judging from past Microsoft coding efforts, I sincerely doubt that they coded this feature anywhere near that efficiently.
My real objection to the new icon rendering paradigm in Longhorn is the same objection I have to Microsoft UI gaffes like dynamically hiding lesser-used menu items, and it has to do with interface consistency. Bruce Tognazzini has expounded on this at length, so I won't repeat the things that he's said. But he's written some excellent articles on how Microsoft has repeatedly broken the menu bar paradigm with this and other misfeatures. (He explains why putting a menu bar at the top of the screen is far better than attaching a menu bar to the application window, as well.)
Then again, Microsoft can't be bothered to do real usability testing and hire real human factors experts. If they did, their UI wouldn't have so much brain damage. But it seems that Microsoft is doing what it always does -- they look at the competition, and they duplicate the eye candy without putting thought into duplicating the features that actually make something work right. (It's as though Steve Jobs ran amuck without any usability or human factors considerations to keep him in check.) And Tog isn't a Windows-basher. He wrote an article citing 10 reasons why the OS X dock sucks, though at least one of those reasons can be negated if you pin the dock to the right hand side of the bottom of the screen. (Hint, doing this keeps the trash can in a consistent location so you can rely on muscle memory.)
At least Longhorn will give you the option of using an interface minus all the eye candy; if only Microsoft gave you the power to permanently disable the hiding of menu items that are seldom used. (Having menu items that appear and disappear sabotages your ability to rely on the order that items appear in a menu. Furthermore, hidden items are more likely to be entirely forgotten by users, even experienced users.)
Why not? What about Windows makes it inherently inferior?
Its a single user operating system
Windows NT (which includes 2000, XP, and 2003) are multi-user operating systems. While a lot of software makes stupid assumptions, the operating systems themselves are fully multi-user. On my Windows XP Professional box, I can have multiple users using the system via various methods: SSH (via Services for Unix), remote desktop (as many people as I allow can log in simultaneously and can perform as many tasks as the system can handle), and the local console. The NTFS filesystem supports ACLs and ownership, something beloved Mac OS X hasn't done until Tiger and some other operating systems still don't support by default/on all versions/on the default filesystems. Processes belong to certain users, which have permissions allowing or disallowing them to do different things. Windows does a lot of things in a more advanced way than UNIX and its clones/derivatives.
with a horrible look to it out of the box (that default XP look).
Some of the defualt Linux distribution themes look equally poor. I don't have much of a problem with it; on my own computer, I'll change it to classic mode, but otherwise, I don't complain and it doesn't bother me. Windows gives you the ability to change the look out of the box (Luna and Classic) -- in Mac OS X, Aqua is your only choice -- and I'm not a huge fan of Aqua. Plus, it's really easy to just *change* the damn thing. If you're so inclined, you can use nLite to make a customized install disc with that feature disabled.
While it's pretty obvious that Allchin would tout the features of Longhorn, but the real importance of Allchin giving an interview right now, after Tiger's announcement, and then basically spending half the interview comparing Longhorn favourably to Tiger lies in exactly that: Tiger. I have no idea just how insecure OSX and Apple make Microsoft feel, but, given that it is usually suicide to mention a competitor in an interview, and the timimng make me think that Microsoft is beginning to feel afraid that they might lose one or two marketshare percent yet another OS apart from Linux.
And that sadly, is really what has defined Microsoft from the very days of Billy G being clever enough to license the OS to IBM across Microsoft's threats against Apple's Basic back in the 80s to the Netscape killing in the 90s. Microsoft has always and always will exist mostly as a company that defines itself by its competition. The last time Microsoft really was innovative was in the early to mid 90s with WinNT and Win95, and even those were made to compete with Mac OS7 and Unix respectively.
Microsoft, facing a lack of competitors, always almost stalls and starts comming up with insane batshit like Software Assurance.
Note the before OSX Tiger and after OSX Tiger screenshots of Longhorn and how much Microsoft has done to copy Tigers featureset. It's actually sad.
Thankfully, Microsoft also did this with WinXP (the Luna scheme) to counter OSX 10.0, and it did nothing to stop OSX adoption. I doubt, seeing that Longhorn won't be here until next year, that it will hinder the adoption of OSX Tiger in any way.
What IS better? I can make a long list of reasons why Windows is better for my use than Linux (it's much longer than the list of things Linux can do that Windows cannot.) I have yet to try to use it, but Mac OS X may have a chance.
For many tasks, Linux is simply not the easiest choice. Linux may work just fine for some people or some uses for desktop users; but Mac OS X and Windows are the only operating systems I would ever use on a desktop system.
So which os is really better at surfing pr0n? I mean come on, lets stick to whats important here!
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for the are subtle and quick to anger.
Please. Apple has only been talking about Spotlight for the last 12 months? While the feature is in Tiger, the product is not on the shelf at this moment which to me makes it virtually the same status as Longhorn (albeit it will be untrue in 14 days but I have a point and am getting to it).
In the last 12 months, there have been numerous advances in the field of desktop search (disclaimer: I am in the search field). Lookout was acquired by Microsoft and now part of MSN. Google released its Desktop Search beta. X1's technology was licensed by Yahoo. Quicksilver ws the de facto champ in search for OS X prior to Spotlight and does a great job. Numerous start-ups and search engines are coming up with promising and powerful ideas.
So if anything, Apple is not an innovator in this game but is late to it as well.
Without those irritating doodads?
I turned on a laptop today where a pop up comes up telling me that I had unused icons and would I like to remove them. I click the x. Two minutes later the same pop up comes up.
Then there was the wireless network is now available pop up.
Then the tie into passport pop up.
These computers are used by people learning how to use computers and to be set up like they would be set up at home when they get them and these to me are irritating doodads. What's next - a pop up telling me that the computer is on?
I am sure they can be stopped. I don't have the energy to go figure out how or to do it. Ran the security and anti-virus updates, locked the computers back up and happily sat down in front of my Mac to do the rest of my work for the day.
VSTO
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Firstly, how is that different from MS? Secondly, if you already have OS X you can get Tiger for under $10 ... by what math do you figure that that comes to "$129"? Thirdly, there are more than just a few 'minor features additions and bugfixes' - inform yourself.
But while the OS bears plenty of similarities to Tiger, Allchin stressed that Microsoft has broken new ground in Longhorn. For example, document icons are no longer a hint of the type of file, but rather a small picture of the file itself. The icon for a Word document, for example, is a tiny iteration of the first page of the file. Folders, too, show glimpses of what's inside. Such images can be rather small, but they offer a visual cue that aids in the searching process, Allchin said.
Didn't this first appear in Nautilus (the file manager for the Gnome Desktop)? I remember it because it rendered Nautilus so painfully slow as to be completely unusable.
putfwd.com - 1GB Free file storage with a twist
So, if you completly basterdize it with free 3rd party abilities, it's worth a damn.
great.
"Viruses and malware? Comes with being the most popular OS - if everybody had Macs, the situation would be reversed."
Myth.
You may have the same amount of people trying, but that doesn't mean you have the same number of success.
The virus writer that writes a good spreading virus for OSX would get huge points in the community. so people are trying to get into it.
There are several site that have in depth articles on why your statement is false. I suggest you read them.
"Anyway, that's the joy of being in a free market; I get to pick the OS that I want to use, and others can use Linux or OS X if they feel that those products are better."
you choice of companies to support lies to manipulate the 'free market'. Just a thought.
and you should not have been modded a troll. That annoies me as well, even if I disagree with the poster.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It sounds like MS took a page from Jef Raskins bag of tricks.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Uh, Apple's already doing this in Tiger. I quote from their web page:
This is in addition to being able to organize the search results by things like file types, various attributes, icon (thumbnail), etc...
So what does Longhorn's search do that Spotlight doesn't?
Those bastards! Yet another reason to not install SP2.
So it's true? Longhorn will be bundled with Duke Nukem Forever?
There is free as in speech, free as in beer, and now free as in Longhorn.
"So what does Longhorn's search do that Spotlight doesn't?"
Ship more than a year from now. : )
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I read a copy of MacWorld the other day...
That magazine was filled with so much FUD it was sick.
90% of the magazine was filled with ridiculous comparisons between PC & Mac. For instance, their retarded article comparing the Mac Mini to a Dell. The Mac is $499, and the Dell they used was $450. The first thing they did was discount the fact that the Dell came with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. I think they took off about $93 for that. So really, they were were comparing a $500 computer to a $350 computer (less actually, the keyboard, mouse and monitor were going to cost more than $93 for the Mac Mini) and they of course went on to find that the Mac was a better computer.
I'm not saying that the Mac Mini isn't a good deal, or that it is not competitive. But, their method of comparison was so horribly skewed it was sick. But if I was a real 'Mac-ie' I wouldn't have looked at the logic, I would have just thought 'Macs are better, and now they are CHEAPER!'
Then of course I came to the 'games' section of the magazine. Oh my freakin' lord. What a load of crap they were spewing there. When they were saying that the Mac was the BEST gaming platform (It has Doom 3!!!) I knew they were completely off their rocker.
My wife (the Mac-ie in the family) didn't understand why I was yelling "this is a load of SHIT!" when I threw the magazine. She just wanted to look at the selection of iPod accessories they were highlighting...
No reason to lie.
C'mon, everybody knows Apple was first with the mouse, trackpad and fanboys. Now after years of trying to play catch-up, MS has some sycophants with blogs. Please, that's so 2003. I suppose if you want to piss the MS fanboys off, there's two buttons you can press. They call that innovation?
"but in terms of ease of use, I think that they release pretty good products"
What makes you say that? It seems to me that you had to replace the entire UI to get something satisfactory.
Use what you like. If that's XP, great! Knock yourself out. But you haven't defended your contention that Microsoft makes easy-to-use products. By your argument, you have to go experiment with a bunch of third party hacks to get the OS to not suck.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I'm a hardcore mac user, but you're making us look bad.
The $10 upgrade is for people who JUST bought a mac, not everyone. Each OS is $129 upgrade, but an educational discount is only $69.
Customers who purchase a qualifying new Macintosh computer on or after April 12th, 2005 that does not have Mac OS X v10.4 "Tiger" included can upgrade to Tiger.
Check out these Wonderful new features I have to pay $129 for.
- Battery System Menu
Easily change power management settings directly from the system menu.
- JPEG 2000 Support
Open files in the next generation JPEG2000 image format using the Apple Preview application.
- QuickTime 7
- Inline PDF Viewing
View PDF documents directly in a Safari browser window -- no other application required.
- Improved RAID
Use disk utility for software RAID, now including mirrored, striped, concatenated, auto mirror rebuild and block size settings.
- Smooth Scrolling
Enjoy more elegant scrolling when navigating long documents, web sites or email messages using a keyboard or mouse scroll wheel.
- Equalizer
Control the audio in the DVD player with a powerful equalizer, including 10 individual sliders and four presets.
- Network Diagnostics
Take advantage of the new network diagnostic tool that can help track down and resolve networking problems.
- Bluetooth 1.2 Specification Support
Enjoy integrated compatibility with the Bluetooth version 1.2 specification.
- About This Mac
View the name of the startup disk in the enhanced About This Mac menu
- Bluetooth File Transfer
Securely share files and folders with other devices that use Bluetooth (requires Mac with built-in Bluetooth). So this didn't work on macs before tiger? Sure sounds like a bugfix.
But my personal favorites.Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
Yes :-). Look here's why I think that people use windows. It's because the average user is misinformed and has no reason to change that. There's nothing they care about that linux can do that windows can't that makes it worth the switch. They don't use Macs because the industry strongly encourages them not to. There are too many hardware vendors out there who don't have mac to gain a large market share. All I'm saying is that if nobody steps up to the plate and truly gives the masses a reason to switch to their platform they aren't going to no matter how much the technology gurus (who are very small in number) tell them to.
I am shocked, shocked to receive a helpful reply from AC. Thanks.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I think that they release pretty good products.
Then why did you change it so much?
And rebuttals to your points:
1) You can use themes in gnu/linux too. (i'm sure you can with OSX, too, but I've been exclusively linux since 1997 so I don't know.)
2) linux has a hell of a lot of nice browsers. Some are lightweight, some are heavier. I don't know a lot about litestep, but I doubt that something very similar doesn't exist in the linux world
3) XFCE has a dock. GNOME can have a dock. A bunch of other WMs/DEs can have docks.
4) It's free
You haven't said how windows is better, only that is has "more games and apps." That's a valid argument -- if you have some device that isn't supported in linux, or some game/app that only runs in windows then the choice is yours. But you didn't list any of those.
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
With Linux or BSD you can run pretty much any server you want, use any desktop/WM you want, program in any language (with some exceptions), it costs nothing and the source is freely available, and one can modify anything. With XP you can customize the UI. That is not an advantage.
So, why do you like it more?
Windows 95 had the capability to do per file icons too (so yes System 7 would have had them beat by a few years). There just weren't any icon handlers bundled in. I do remember some 3rd party ones for images files being available around the same time as the Win95 launch.
DCMonkey
OK, my mistake, I rushed that one out without proper research indeed.
Yes, perhaps $129 is rather high, especially for e.g. a 10.4 user there is really not nearly enough incentive to fork that over. They should offer more graded options relative to the difference in value over one's current system, e.g. I would probably pay maybe $40 max for Tiger.
Umm, these are actually minor features. There are obviously a lot neater features than that. I guess you tried to list the minor features to try to emphasize what you're paying for is overpriced, except by doing so, you are ignoring what it is you are paying for.
But the point I want to make is that you don't have to upgrade. Unlike Windows, system upgrades for Mac OS X do not break your installed software or files. If you feel that the upgrade isn't worth it, then your course of action is quite simple: don't upgrade! Pretty simple...
Moof.
There was a rumour that NT5 was delayed and became Win2K because of the "sudden" competition from Linux around that time. I can't remember where I heard the rumour and I don't know how true it is, but it at least sounds plausible to me. It's nice to see Microsoft finally on the backfoot on so many products/issues : Apple and OS X on the desktop and some server, Linux on the server and some desktop, Mozilla/Firefox and Safari vs IE, and all the rest of the F/OSS software (Apache, Samba, etc) that's slowly eroding Microsofts' monopoly position from many points. It's becoming clear that Microsofts' peak is now behind them.
There are several site that have in depth articles on why your statement is false. I suggest you read them.
I suggest you link to them.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but what is there that prevents a blackhat from writing a trojan for OS X? I'm not talking about something that spreads automatically via a remote exploit or even a local exploit, but an honest-to-God old-fashioned trojan. Promise the user free porn, or cool mouse cursors or a free stock ticker or something, and people will install it. What prevents it from giving them the free porn or weather forecast or whatever, *and* turning their machine into a spam relay?
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Apple's OSX releases are named after sleek, powerfull, and exotic jungle cats. Microsoft's new OS is name after, well....a cow. Hmmm. I think that says a lot.
I was yelling "this is a load of SHIT!" when I threw the magazine.
Dude, you should invest in some anger management classes. Or maybe spend a relaxing weekend debugging your registry and flushing your system of spyware.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
Longhorn Demo:
Microsoft: "Thanks for coming to eat free food. Check out Longhorn."
(Porn music to play behind the OS demo.)
Microsoft: "Check out the translucent windows! You know we invented them..."
(few grunts, skin slaps and music continues)
Microsoft: "Check out these icons made from the *actual first page* of the document! AmAAAZziing huh?"
(groans mixed into porn music followed by climax noises)
Microsoft fanboys will blow a load, go home and blog "Longhorn is the best OS EVER!
I'm already tired of it.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Installing fluxbox on gentoo, on the other hand, was a complete bitch the last time I attempted it. I know that there's a certain level of familiarity that's lacking for me in Linux, but if I'm comfortable to manually install programs without a package manager, I think I should be able to put it in a freaking directory, tweak some config files, and get it running. I eventually did, but man, was it ever a pain.
Office 2003 works out of the box with no tweaking required (you have to download patches, of course, but it's 2005 - that kind of thing is expected). I'm extremely happy with both Word and Outlook - Thunderbird (when I last tried it) is clunky and anti-intuitive, and OO.org was just plain slow.
I'm not trying to argue that Microsoft r8l3z! and teh lunix and mac os x sucks. The fact of the matter is that, for me, it just plain works. I know, I know, you probably saw that on a Mac switcher commercial, but honestly, to me, it's true.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
i read "longporn heview"
...sometimes suffering from spoonerism isn't such a bad thing
This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
Ok, that's just sad. Or hilarious. Take your pick(s).
avocade.com
In a free and open internet, who needs Windows
The issue is not usually with user apps taking up gigs and gigs of virtual address space: it's that everything on the system is at the mercy of the kernel's single address space. 64-bit opens up kernel-mode code such as device drivers to use a lot more virtual address space.
Before I get flamed -- note that I said *virtual* address space. This does not mean that all the virtual addresses necessarily map to physical memory or that all the memory is always paged-in. But, everything running in the system context -- ie, kernel mode -- shares one address space and it can be a limiting factor.
Communism was just a red herring.
Microsoft obviously doesn't say a word about some of the only true "innovative" features which Longhorn will be shipping, such as intrusive (?) DRM-managment.
Anyway, I think Longhorn is bound to be less than a success than Microsoft probably hopes it will be.
There must be some moment in time where a lot of people start to realise they don't need to buy new hardware every x years to type a letter and browse the web.. I think now might be that time.
Let's be fair guys, Longhorn and Tiger are completely different! It's like trying to compare Apples with um.....some....er..... other fruit.... that is trying to look like an apple.
I'm just glad to see BeFS 'instant-search' reappear in Tiger (Apple hired the brain behind BeFS) and copied in Longhorn, it really revolutionizes the way you organize your work.
Now, if only somebody would come up with a replacement of those stupid, annoying little file save/open dialog boxes!
But what if wanted my blue tooth to work? As stated in the features that tiger adds file transfer over blue tooth. Paying for bugfixes.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
This is a common misconception around here, I think--the number of bits the processor can handle simultaneously has no direct bearing on a lot of common operations.
32-bit addressing has a cap of 4 gigabytes that are directly addressable, but we've known how to do memory/file paging for a very, very long time. 16-bit addressing (which most 8-bit CPUs like the Z80 used!) only directly let you handle 64K of RAM, but WordStar could edit files of up to 128K or so even on a machine with 32K of RAM.
On Macs, HFS+ already has a maximum file size based on 64 bits. The only advantage 64 bits for memory addressing gets you is that, if your text editor loads the whole file into memory at once and you have more than 4G of RAM in your system, the CPU won't have to do any paging of memory. And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that for a text editor, you're probably not going to be noticing a whole lot of lag in page switching between memory banks anyway.
I'm gonna have to go ahead and...disagree with you there.
See, I don't think that's the problem. I think it's pure partisanship. There's nothing Microsoft could do or not do to bulwark complaints from some users (especially Apple users). It's fair to say Apple routinely makes rather large claims about its products (iCal, its usefullness, and its potential impact on the future of the western world comes to mind), but since they are essentially only an 800-gram gorilla (vs. Microsoft's, well, you know), they get away with it.
For some, Microsoft is evil, and that's the end of it. I don't disagree with that part; I just think they are all a bit evil.
lol... you mean copying it to the prefetch folder while in safe mode? I'd hardly call this a battle.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
agreed -- if it was shit ppl wouldn't want it. not exactly the market-leaders-leads-due-to-product-superiority, but better than every-product-is-better-than-the-market-leader.
i want to say though, that i doubt my mother could set up windows XP. i don't know anything about the OSX install, so i can't speak to that. but my mother _uses_ a already setup ubuntu box. so it is at least usable once it is set up.
but i'd also say that it would take quite a shitty product for people to leave what they know. i mean, the virus management on windows is a nightmare. but interoperability and familiarity (and cost) are keeping then with what they know.
that's why firefox has taken off but other competing products can't -- it is basically 100% interoperable, mostly familiar, and better.
unfortunately, linux doesn't get the same chance -- the popular web standards are largely open. the popular desktop standards aren't.
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
so in summary of your own posting:
first: change the way it looks
second: change the browser
third: get a new dock
blah, blah, blah
I agree that you're not trolling, but I fail to see how you're defending XP.
I won't even touch the viruses and malware = popularity. It has to do with security and permissions, not popularity.
You can't really defend a system by stating that it needs to be changed.
For example, I could say:
First: In OS X you don't need to change the shell. The OS doesn't look like it was designed by FisherPrice
Second: Safari is awesome, but you can also use Firefox
Thirdly: Dock keeps your applications handy.
Fourthly: BSD, Apache, Xcode, BSD, and let's not forget BSD are all free, included, and easy to use. (Takes one click to start a secure, popular webserver.)
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
The really important thing however, is the software - if the software you use to do your job only runs on a paticular platform, that's what you use. Most decent recent stuff is cross-platform anyway, and at the high end of town the client software to those big packages is a web browser.
You're absolutely right.
I am a big Mac fan, and that's no secret, but I think some of those articles were written by highschool kids with nothing better to do.
Mac gaming pretty much sucks, but it is getting better. Enemy Territory just came out (and it's sweet), and Close Combat: first to fight is coming out about a week before the windows version, but anyone trying to prove that a Mac is a viable gaming platform, is, in my opinion, wrong.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Okay, good point, except that now you've had to replace the core GUI which Microsoft worked so hard on, the "revolutionary" start bar/button which prompted windows 95 to be different from windows 3.1, and added a MacOSX dock clone. Not only that, you want to add a skinning interface to change the look completely.
Furthermore, it's still at risk for malware/viruses. Regardless of the fact that it's the most popular, this is still something that isn't pleasant.
All this, to not buy a Mac? Good work. Personally, I'd rather just buy the computer and be able to use it without having to do a shit load of stuff, and be at risk for spyware/malware/shitware.
So it can't just install itself from a user visiting a site, or clicking "OK." They would need to visit the site, have the pop up come up, then type in their password when it says "ADCrazy is trying to install BlahBlahBlah. Type in your Administrator password to continue."
Secondly, it can't hide in a registry and alter how your other apps work. Sure it can play with some plist files to make some changes, but OS X makes it quite hard for a program to run in such a way as to make it completely invisible to the user and hard to quit.
I'm not the grandparent and I'm not going to link them as it's not really worth either of our time, but there are distinct reasons why being "the biggest" doesn't make you the most vulnerable. Apache and IIS have rather equivalent marketshare, so to speak, yet IIS servers are the ones with bugs, problems, and security flaws.
Finally, outside of web-based trojans, OS X doesn't have the low-level integration of Safari and Mail, meaning that a virus written for those applications don't have nearly full-access to a system with permission to change other files/programs on the computer.
I will say this, though -- Longhorn and, to some degree SP2, will probably be all the evidence you need against this FUD of "the biggest programs have the biggest problems." I fully expect Longhorn to be relatively free from many of the malware problems that plague past Windows OS's, and it will very likely be on an exceedingly large number of computers. What will the argument be then, when one of the OS's with the largest marketshares proves the statement incorrect?
I love when people violently argue without having a clue.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
As for liking MS - happens. After installing Server 2003 and seeing blank desktop, and poking around how it is setup, i grew to like it. Gets the job done without distractions and with best application support out there. (And kudos to Cygwin and Eclipse developers).
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Yes, you can easily do that.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Before you go bashing an operating system you've never used-- Bluetooth file transfer works flawlessly, and I've used it many times. The keyword in the feature you mentioned is securely--I'm guessing it encrypts all of your files while they are beamed over the air. This is hardly a 'bug fix' but an important new feature.
An insurance company I worked for for 7 months used windows 95 for their entire office (20 stations)! Original Pentium, 16MB ram. So I bet there's lots of schools/companies still using win95/98 who will keep on until they see a reason to upgrade. It runs their one company program fine, that's all they need.
I've tried that for a while, but could not delete subdirectories on any of the drives mounted as directories except
(a) when referring to them by their original drive letters,
or
(b) by circumventing the recycle bin, i.e. from the command line or by configuring Explorer to delete stuff directly.
Doesn't seem right to me. Is that normal? Perhaps the recycle bin is "broken"? I've asked around but got no answers (except some repeating the workarounds mentioned above. I wanted a solution though, not workarounds.)
Nobody expects...The Microsoft Marketers!
... and backwards incompatibility. Our *three* chief weapons are ignorance, FUDs and backwards incomparability and an almost fanatical devotion to the Market....
our chief weapon is ignorance . . . ignorance and FUDs, FUDs and ignorance.... Our two, two chief weapons are ignorance and FUDs
Yeah, you know what? I've been maintaining Windows for as long as there has been Windows, and I have never had to copy something to the prefetch folder while in safe mode. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are a couple of other people on Earth who are in the same boat as I am.
If you need to copy things to a prefetch folder while you're in safe mode to make your OS stop sucking, your OS sucks.
There are reasons to use Windows. This is not one of the good ones.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
In addition to what the other guy said: Most people use Windows as Administrator, because a lot of software assumes it and doesn't run if logged in as a standard user. People don't run OS X that way. They run it as a normal user, and there are no applications that won't run that way. A Trojan could therefore mess with user files of the person that ran it (as they could with any OS), but not damage system files.
And then again there's the good old lack of ActiveX, which is of course God's gift to malware authors on Windows, but doesn't exist on Macs.
The concept that the number of viruses and malware on Windows is purely a function of it's popularity is Redmond FUD, and you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Somehow I am always reminded of this character when I hear about MS's next OS naming system.
Umm, bluetooth does work, so there is no bugfix... Bugs and security problems will also be backported to at least Panther. So again, if you don't want to upgrade, then don't. I know many people still happily using Jaguar. Many people like to update every other major version that comes out, and some don't upgrade at all. Again, entirely the user's choice.
Moof.
Kind of goes with the way that posts complaining about being modded as a troll for liking microsoft get modded to +5 . .
hawk
The thing is, even though Mac OS X has it down for user friendliness, it can't touch the sheer amount of programs available for it. Plus x386 hardware is *much* cheaper. So, even though it takes a little more time to set up, it costs less and I can use more programs. The tradeoff is worth it to me.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
>Believe it or not, people educated about the alternatives *still* use XP.
:)
They also smoke, use crack, engage in risky sexual behavior, use XP--oh, wait, that's where we started
hawk
More UNIX than POSIX ? Isn't that like saying more Windows like than Win32 ? My next computer is a 12in Powerbook. Actually, Cygwin on Windows rocks. I keep it on a USB key and install it on any Windows machine I use for more than half an hour. I have an X term up now that's running over secure shell, displaying the progress of a video encoding on my home machine about 50 miles away. In other windows, iTunes is running, and this is being typed into Firefox. Apart from Windows itself, there isn't a Windows app in use on this machine at the moment. It's like Scott McNealy says, "The network is the computer ..." or translated "Windows, OSX, GNU/Linux, none of that matters that much nowadays" or translated again... "It's the apps stupid."
-- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
One bad thing that can happen with preview is that if you get a file with a codec the finder (well, QT) does not understand it takes a bit before it figures that out. So it's handy to be able to turn the preview off as needed.
Of course, that would also be helped by better threading support. Yeah Finder, I'm lookin' at you! I was kidn of hoping Tiger would be better in that regard but I have no idea.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Worst is taking meeting minutes over phone.
Oh well, enough internet flaming for today.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Microsoft - the Hummer of Operating Systems.
For when you absolutley must have the most bloating and bling-filled OS possible.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It is cheaper to buy programs for
XP???? Please explain.
OSX - ~$70
XP - ~$300
MS Office is about the same (I wont use it, I use OO.org)
games - more selection for MS
Firewall
OSX - free (iptables)
XP - 40ish (Mcafee or Norton are the most common)
By the looks of it, XP still is more expensive for me. Ill stick with Linux or OSX.
Thank you for your troll.
(if you have to dl a ton of software in order to make the os usable, why not just go get a good distro and have it usable out of the box). Linux -90ish for Novell full edititon. XP 300, you can even go any buy a better graphics card for what you save.
Stop signs are only Suggestions
Can I just say, 20 or more apps running at once. No problems. What does the color blue look like again? It's been so long.... Whether you have stability issues/security problems with your particular box or not is not the issue. The fact is that most Mac users are so well converted and at times over eager because they love their computers, and can't believe they are actually using a computer that just does what it is supposed to do.
Oh, and it is not just a simpleton that is saying this, as I run my own websites on a Linux box, and go to the far reaches of my OS's and harness the real power of *NIX in even my everyday activities. All this from a guy who started out knowing nothing of web programming or command line. Even my wife is now "computer literate", and can do some pretty amazing things with a computer that impresses even me.
It's ironic that windows users say that Macs are made for idiots that need a fool-proof child-safe computer, because it seems that it takes an idiot savant NOT to blow it with a windows box.
Windows users all talk like windows availability on a gazillion different pieces of hardware is a good thing, and that Apples stability because of it's OS's singularity is only worth the curse of the damned. In reality, Mac OS X's stability is not from the fact that nobody cares about it. It is from the careful, uncompromised, and consistent planning of a rock solid core foundation, and full control of everything built above it.
Alternatively, you can choose windows, an OS that is well compared to the whore of the computer industry. Sure, she gets around. But is that a good thing? There is really no such thing as "safe sex", nor is there "safe windows use". I mean, spyware, viruses, security holes so big that the if compared to polka-dotted drapes, the "security" would be represented by the "dots"?
I am the first to admit that no OS is perfect. Do I pray to OS X? Certainly not. But does it satisfy my needs as a tech savvy computer user, who is making a living doing what I need completely without the crutch of microsoft? In more ways than I can count.
Listen, to each their own. I simply find it funny that so many people can defend something, even to the extent of deriding the alternative, when they know NOTHING about it for themselves. Windows, for the average user, is NOT better than OS X. Mac's, for the average user, are NOT more expensive than the standard windows box. Mac's hold their value much better, and run generally longer. And on the professional level, don't even get me started. Windows is more popular because it is more widely invested in. That, unfortunately, is the only requisite some individuals have when determining value.
So, I repeat. 20 or more apps running at once.
Final Cut Pro HD
Photoshop CS
InDesign
Safari
Mail
Preview
Dreamweaver
iChat
msn messenger
Toast
iTunes
Quicktime Pro
Terminal
Sherlock
Fontbook
Calculator
Wo
Candy Crisis (Personal favorite)
Deskshade
windows media player (funny how much it sucks too)
real player (not much better)
FireFox
internet explorer
System PreferencesNo Crashie! : )
Don't you hate people who always repeat themselves and are long-winded and overly redundant and talk too much?
How exactly were you trying to install fluxbox on gentoo? Is
or
Too difficult? The thing about XP I find irritating is the registry, removing a program cleanly can be hell on XP.
yes >
Read my post again. Where did I say that it was cheaper to buy software for XP? I said it was cheaper to buy *hardware* for x386, which applies equally to XP or Linux. The total cost of ownership is higher with OS X, because if you compare apples to apples (no pun intended), Apple hardware is more expensive than x386 hardware. Next time, please read what I'm saying a bit more carefully.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
My bad, I missed the very last part (cheaper hardware, but software is about the same).
The hardware is getting compararable in price now as well.
Stop signs are only Suggestions
So Longhorn will open the docs and render a small picture of the document? It just blows my mind that MS didn't realise that it's a security hole begging to be abused.
Preview is as dangerous as opening a file. If the preview code has security issues, you only have to get a malicious file saved on the computer. Next time the user browses his/her files, it gets opened.
And user INERTIA (and related fear of the, gasp, UNKNOWN).
...
Most people won't change from a familiar environment unless they are seriously upset and angry at it. It is too easy to just sigh and keep on using the same ole thing. Present costs (learning a new OS) tend to trump future benefits (better OS, once learned).
But impulse buying a Mac Mini, or an OS switch at their workplace, might bring about a change in inertia and FOTU
I am anarch of all I survey.
Believe it or not, people educated about the alternatives *still* use XP.
Very few of those and mostly those who are either not educated/trained equally well on all the choices or (they think they) have that special Windows app they can't live without
Now, mod me down freely. My karma can't get any worse...
Tiger is now shipping and WILL be in stores. When will longhorn be here?
Tiger runs existing applications. What will longhorn run?
64 bit windows will be great when it is everywhere. 64 bit xp and server 2003 should be good enough for a LONG time. Customers are in need of a fixed OS, not one that is so different they have to change everything.
DEC had 64 bit Alpha machines in the early 90's and they hauled ass. It is 15 or so years later and Microsoft is still lagging behind!
I would say Microsoft could just buy the source for VMS and hire all the engineers to work at Microsoft. They could make a win32 layer for VMS and have Windows apps running on a real OS. It could cost less and be a thing where Microsoft says that COTS helped them reduce costs to deliver a product...
It might be that Microsoft is trying to have all of Longhorn written in India...
Your Average Joe
Uhh, so the reasons why you like XP are because you have stopped using the majority of the XP shell and replaced it with third party parts?
Am I alone in seeing the logical disconnect here? Anyone?
Hey -- i'm not trying knock ya. Just saying maybe things have changed. you should try the new ubuntu liveCD so you can poke around. I've been using debian since 1997. I switch to Ubuntu when warty came out. It is based on debian sid (so it is very up to date) and is very end-user oriented.
It is still being polished up, but it is good enough for my very un-tech savvy parents. Especially when, like you say, they don't do much with it. I have a "web browser" link on the desktop, a "email" icon, and a "word processor" icon. And, to convert my mother, who loves Spider (the MS version,) I installed the firefox extension. hehe.
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
You can set progman.exe as your default shell. There's a registry key (I don't remember exactly where it is, though) that has the setting for the startup shell. It was easier to set, though, when it was just a setting in win.ini...
2003 is? 2003 is what? A multi-user operating system? So are 2000 and XP. Windows XP is of course designed for workstation use, but they are still fully multi user operating systems. There are more versions of 2000 than Professional; they are all multi-user operating systems.
Ah, now crap in the tray I *can* agree with you on. Mine has all of 8 icons (on a double-width bar) which leaves plenty of space for the rest.
If I wanted something which just looked damn good, I'd want a Mac. If I want something to be simple, I'd go CLI.
XP does what I need, and does it well. Sorry linux fanboys, but I've tried all three systems and XP wins for my needs (gaming/workstation). The server downstairs runs Fedora (And gets admin over SSH with Putty), and we don't have a Mac (But a mini is on order...)
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Get a clue.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
I totally agree with the mac approach if that's the interface you want. As I've seen, the emulator can run a whole variety of windows programs that you maybe interested in, and as for the core functionality (browsing, spreadsheet, word processor) the mac apps are as good or better than their Windows counterparts.
Sure. You also can not login in with 5 users into a Linux box unless they have an account there. Does it make Linux a single-user system like this idiot claimed?
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No I am not a liar, and you are a complete looser who does not know shit.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>