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How Do You Greet an Extraterrestrial?
The LA Times is running a story about Earth Speaks, a companion project to SETI, which focuses on how we would communicate with intelligent extraterrestrial life, should we happen to discover it. Far more effort has been devoted to searching for signals or a means to communicate than the question of what we might say once contact is established, and the folks at SETI have set up a website to gather opinions on what the best questions and statements are. "So far, the messages break down into a few distinct categories. Some people want to throw a block party to welcome the aliens to the neighborhood. Others, less trusting, would warn the aliens that we've got guns and know how to use them. Another group, possibly influenced by having seen too many movies, would have us hide under the bed until they go away. 'If we discover intelligent life beyond Earth, we should not reply — we should freeze and play dead,' wrote one contributor." What would you say first to an alien?
got any new porn we haven't seen yet ???
We can't even communicate in any meaningful way with squids, which are genetically far more closely related to us than any possible extraterestrials. What in the world makes us think that it would be any easier to communicate with extraterrestrials?
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
...do you actually have any green women in bikinis?
We should definitely show them that we are rational, well behaved lifeforms, with broad interests and predictable interaction
For starters we can offer them a free subscription and RSS feed to /.
Oh wait...
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
just like young children are taught, they could be provided with material for understanding the english language and using it to communicate with us
as they would be more technologically advanced, it shouldnt take too long for their linguists to understand
otherwise, long lost languages like sanskrit which virtually operate on a flowchart could be used as well
its not he same without a rimshot
I, for one, would welcome our new alien overlords.
"We should watch the new ABC series V for tips."
So we've got guns. I wonder how intimidated a civilization that has the technology to traverse light-years through space would be of our bullets and bombs. If they wished to annihilate us, I wager they'd be able to do it without even giving us a chance to react. If an alien race should contact Earth, I think our best bet would be to at least assume that they have peaceful intentions.
Roll for initiative... :D
I need a new sig...
they seem to be interested in phones... "ET Phone home"
Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that
...any alien that lands on planet Earth will likely be pale-skinned, dressed in strange clothing & only grunt monosyllabically at you having been sat in front of a console screen for the past 50 years - so just practice your alien communication skills on the average British teenager...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
It's a cookbook!
Please fill out these entry visa papers or we'll have to ask you to leave...
If we're lucky, they'll ask someone from the internet who would say something like "O HAI ALIENZ".
If we're unlucky, they'll contact one of the YouTube comment posters.
If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
err, dude, we were joking!
... it's the only way to be sure.
Citing that evidence suggests that they have been monitoring earth broadcasts, and that their planet is not within the distribution zone of the earth's intellectual property, and that royalties must be paid immediately for the past 50-100 years of received carrier wave based entertainment that they have received free of cost.
Further, a gag order is hereby issued forbidding the aliens to discuss either this suit or the entertainment materials (hereto fore "content") with any other audience, known or unknown to the residents of earth, until after trial or settlement has been concluded,
Yadda yadda yadda
Give us all your money,
Signed, the MPAA and RIAA industries.
All your base are belong to us?
TITS or GTFO!
Nanu! Nanu! is the way to go!
Anyone thinking about how we greet aliens should realize several things
a) anyone in orbit is in a very powerful position. Essentially the ultimate higher attack position.
b) anyone arriving in orbit has very advanced technology
c) kinetic energy
Read Footfall, it posits aliens with the barest of interstellar travel capabilities arriving
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footfall
Yo Mama's so fat, she's the reason Pluto was reclassified a dwarf planet.
Freeze and play dead? Someone really should have thought of that _before_ we started broadcasting radio and TV and a planet-wide basis. Those waves really don't stop when they hit the outer atmosphere you know... By now we should be fairly well-known in our galactic neighbourhood.
As for talking about our guns, whoever shows up here has already demonstrated massively superior technology to ours (we are not showing up on _their_ doorstep are we?) so antagonizing them might not be such a great idea either.
So yeah, by all means let's throw a party and hope it isn't us that ends up on the barbecue...
The question presupposes that talking is the correct response. If intelligent aliens visit us here in our solar system we can reasonably expect to be enslaved or slaughtered. Interstellar space travel is a stupendously expensive undertaking, and anyone attempting it will expect a return on their investment at the end. And if you believe in Vinge's technological singularity, the visitor will no doubt be from a post-singularity culture. In that case your chances of being simply engulfed courtesy of that culture's hard-takeoff are close to 100%.
So, forget talk. Running or fighting are your choices.
Um, I mean, freeze and play dead.
They would be advanced enough to hear us like we hear them... We emit lots of noise without trying. We would have to face them head on and with as little fear as we can, which means each nation would try to oneup each other in favor, and then war would ensue...
I'd ask them if their political views are left or right wing.
"I can haz cheeseburger?"
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
If we are actually noticed, the problem with the "freeze and play dead" suggestion is that it if it works, we risk convincing them that we are mostly harmless, unintelligent creatures. Earth then begins to look like a habitable, unoccupied planet ripe for colonizing.
While a display of martial might would serve to make the earth look less available, it also risks making us appear savage and again, unintelligent. It might make them feel justified in subjugating us and colonizing earth.
Safest is probably a policy of partial isolation. We should greet others firmly, while revealing little of our own cultures and history. Be respectful, and allow visitors to see a strictly controlled show. Given time, this can be relaxed. If they do seem interested in colonization, prepare for war. Demand commitments to peace and respect for our territory that, if broken deliberately, will give us moral high-ground in counterattacking. But if this should occur, act quickly to establish laws of war--display an aura of civility and discipline. Conversely, if they are interested in an exchange of knowledge, be open and willing--say nothing of atrocities and wars, and let the borders be opened slowly. Control their perception of us, so that we may appear to be a mixture of cultures that they could ally themselves with, rather than merely subjugate.
"But does your advanced Zarnax-12 computational system run Linux?"
"Wow, Zarnax-12 computers! Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!"
"Okay, I've successfully installed Ubuntu Linux on the Zarnax-12, but I still can't get dual-monitor support, and it's not recognizing the alien T'Ralfaz sound card."
Obligatory Movie Quote (1,000 quatloos to the first person who recognizes this)
"...if they're more advanced than us, they should be nearer to the Creator..."
Does your spaceship run on vacuum tubes?
Eight forms of human language remain uncracked by modern linguists. Surely trying to speak Ventaxian and understand their communication will be nigh impossible. Heck I don't think their characters have been encoded into unicode.
Let alone knowing how their transmissions are encoded or even if they have a concept of DRM. If we don't know their codecs then those broadcasts will simply fall into the cosmic background radiation and remain lost to us until these aliens do something as gross as landing on the White House lawn and actually share their technology via their universal translator.
Who's to say they're even going to be interested in humanity at all. They may decide that ants have a far older and more interesting worldwide civilization which fits their xenothropic principle rather than appealing to our hubris that nigh-hairless primates are the pinnacle of culture and society upon this ball of mud.
On the bright side this guy says it'd be easy to figure out the grammar of a living alien language but there's still the problem of idiom which would only serve the muddy the waters of communication and possibly precipitate conflict.
That big rocky planet three-quarters covered with liquid water and filled with luscious plant and animal life? Yeah, our astronomers spotted that one too... it's waaaaaay over there thousands of galaxies away.
Should another civilization have the tech to be able to traverse space then what if they are watching us? Us humans like to think we have dominion over wildlife and we keep the exotic ones in threat of extinction in zoos. Well knowing how violent humans can be, what about us? Perhaps a higher intelligence already saw us and how we react towards ourselves and the environment. Perhaps they refuse to contact us due to this? Earth could be our "zoo" for all we know. Given that humans are prone towards self-destruction, what if we were labeled as a endangered species or an unknown tangent. Granted guns and bombs won't do much but don't forget the STOCKPILES of nuclear weapons powered by the very mechanics behind the sun itself. We could easily destroy our world with our current tech (and in some ways we already are).
They're just as nice as us. They are probably not coming here to take over and harvest us for our organs.
You just contradicted yourself.
We would need to find intelligent life on this planet before we can find it anywhere else!
They'll either already speak English for no good reason, or there will be an easily available universal translator to help out. Problem solved!!!
Simply show them LOLCATS and they will instantly become aware of the stupidity that is inherent to our species. They won't even bother enslaving us all.
DAVIS: We are a benign species, opposed to interplanetary conflict, and believe in equal opportunity for all beings, regardless of age, race, gender, sexual orientation or planet of origin
STAN: That's nice. Look, let me start over, OK? I want you to tell me what the people on your planet are gonna do to make Stanley H Tweedle a happier man
DAVIS: Is this right?
PRINCE: Stick to the cards, Mr President. All possibilities have been anticipated. Do not deviate from the cards
DAVIS: Congratulations on your birthday!
sic transit gloria mundi
If an alien race should contact Earth, I think our best bet would be to at least assume that they have peaceful intentions.
Or they could just be assholes.
What if they were to arrive in our solar system and not care about us? I mean, what if they didn't care about lifeforms? It's a huge assumption that they are looking for others like them. That's a drive that seems to be uniquely human. As far as I know, no animal on earth goes around comparing surrounding species to themselves. I use the earth animal example because we have no other species to compare in the vicinity of our solar system. But back to the point, What if they arrive and simply ignore us?
Restore the madness of youth's lechery
If they don't have valid passports, there's no way in hell they'll get into the US, unless they sneak in. Plus, wouldn't they have to send a passenger manifest first before they would be allowed to land?
rewriting history since 2109
Didn't any of you know? You say, "Gnorts, Mr Alien". Back in the 60's, NASA realised that the Apollo might encounter aliens on the Moon, so they named the leader of the expedition appropriately (in an anagram, to demonstrate our intelligence and puzzle-setting ability).
"Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
I propose a dynamic approach: learn as much as possible about them first. We may decide it would be disasterous to attempt contact, and that "playing dead" is the way to go. In any case we might discover that one approach will be better received than another; first impressions may make or break the situation.
All that being said, I don't think the human race is anywhere near the point where we SHOULD make contact with an extraterrestrial civilization AT ALL. We're still just slightly smarter animals at heart, once you strip away the thin veneer of technology and what we laughingly call "civilization". We can't even get along with OURSELVES and our own differences let alone a race that didn't evolve here. We're bigoted, racist, and sexist: We can't decide, AS A RACE, whether we owe our existence to one supernatural being or another, or did we evolve? We make war on our neighbors over resources and things that matter even less than that. We treat people differently, sometimes even ATTACKING them, because their skin is a different color. We treat our females as second-class citizens. Furthermore we mistreat and mismanage the biosphere we live in, poisoning it with our industrial wastes, destroying parts of it out of ignorance or greed, or because it suits us to do so, and damn the consequences.
Never mind US contacting THEM! I say that if they're out there, they're AVOIDING and IGNORING us, because we're not worth knowing yet! Can't blame them if that's the case.
Oh, and go ahead and mod me down to "-1, Troll"; I'll understand because there is no "-1, Uncomfortable Truth" button to use.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
With all the incredible junk we have pumped out via radio waves, playing dead would be a certain way to send the wrong message. On the other side, it might be a good idea to keep all those currently in power and those wanting to be away from the microphone...
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
My hoovercraft is full of eels
It'll be the one thing we have in common, no matter what. However they conceptualize it, unless our first contact is some kind of space manatee that communicates in radio waves, whatever we make contact with will have to have developed transmission/reception capability. Language would be a big puzzle to crack, and probably a really frustrating one... but 2+2=4 everywhere you go.
If they are Vogon, ask them to read some poetry (and pretend to like it)
first thing i would say to an alien would be.....hello, my name is .........lmao
Or whats the number for the local galactic travel agent?
Imagine yourself taking a stroll through Manhattan, somewhere north of 68th street, deep inside Central Park, late at night. It would be nice to meet someone friendly, but you know that the park is dangerous at night. That's when the monsters come out. There's always a strong undercurrent of drug dealings, muggings, and occasional homicides.
It is not easy to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. They dress alike, and the weapons are concealed. The only difference is intent, and you can't read minds.
Stay in the dark long enough and you may hear an occasional distance shriek or blunder across a body.
How do you survive the night? The last thing you want to do is shout, "I'm here!" The next to last thing you want to do is reply to someone who shouts, "I'm a friend!"
What you would like to do is find a policeman, or get out of the park. But you don't want to make noise or move towards a light where you might be spotted, and it is difficult to find either a policeman or your way out without making yourself known. Your safest option is to hunker down and wait for daylight, then safely walk out.
There are, of course, a few obvious differences between Central Park and the universe.
There is no policeman.
There is no way out.
And the night never ends.
What makes them think aliens even have anything in common with us? Read some Stanislav Lem for how that might not be true in the slightest.
Take me to your leader!
Privacy is terrorism.
ba weep gra na weep nini bon
I think the best thing would be to ask to be put in touch with whatever governmental body oversees our party of the galaxy and (hopefully) will protect our rights. If there are no rights, then we're screwed either way because anyone that can travel to us will completely out-class. On the other hand, if we can reach the Shadow Proclamatino of Judoon (or the equivalent) we may be granted some form of protection. Hopefully, this protection will take the form of David Tennant.
A convenient snack on those long journeys across the galaxy.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
If they turn out to be hostile, just beam them the rules of cricket - if that doesn't act as an interplanteary virus, they'll think we're all crazy and won't want to come anywhere close, in case it's catching.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
"All your base are belong to us"
Nothing more eloquent is belong to communication.
Are you really from Texas?
"Don't probe me bro"
Xaotik Designs
Is welcome them, if they have tech that gets them to our planet then we aren't going to have any weapons to use against them, and hiding won't end it either.
In general I think if they are high enough up the ladder (of tech) to cross the gaps between stars we have more to gain than to lose by welcoming them.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Uh, didn't the Bush regime build some kind of fence to keep out aliens? Quick, someone call Immigration!
If resources are plentiful then there isn't much of a problem.
Deleted
You are within regulation Zone 4. You are using the patents described in the attached appendix without paying the required fees.
You are to appear in court in another solar system in 2 months or judgment will be found against you. The required fees to become current for the use of all patents are shown in the attached appendix. Failure to make a representation at a fee payment hearing will result in bench warrants for seizure of all assets.
And the answer will be: zzaappp!
;).
Pro: Someone will finaly stand up to the MPAA/RIAA
Con: Earth will be in ashes, well maybe it's not that much of a con
If we encounter a civilization of vastly superior technology, the idea that we would possess any capacity to negotiate is more or less absurd. Hiding doesn't work either. Assuming it's them discovering us and not vice versa, the encounter cannot possibly be far from our highly-immobile civilization, and even if we immediately turned off all the power plants and went dark, it's not like there is such an abundance of life-supporting planets nearby that earth could hope to slip through the cracks. It may not even be wise to try and be all buddy-buddy with them, as who knows what sort of culture and religion they follow. ("you dare bow to us? we will surely annihilate you for the insult of that most obscene gesture!")
The simplest and wisest thing to do is let them call all the shots. Speak when spoken to; otherwise, be silent. Look for opportunities to reciprocate any kindness. Any technology they can be convinced to offer is guaranteed to exceed the value of any riches we bring as tribute (which should have value by virtue of uniqueness even if their culture does not experience the same rarity of materials).
If our visitors are demanding and unreasonable human being will almost certainly have to postpone any major rebellion until they are in a position to acquire some of their oppressors' technological resources.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
Send them the Voynich Manuscript.
That should buy some time.
With the Vulcan salute, of course!
... preferably Rosetta ones.
Hi, Beer's in the Fridge, bathroom's over there, enjoy your stay...
...in bed
We have no idea how extraterrestrials might see the Universe. It is conceivable that we will not be able to communicate with them in any meaningful way. Even if we can actually decoding their language(s) may take decades or centuries. They may find our languages just as perplexing.
Through what appears to be the universal language of mathematics... what else?
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
What's all this talk about finding intelligent lifeforms "beyond Earth". Shouldn't we really make an effort to find intelligence life on Earth first?
Touring was just making a point, but people have taken it too far and claim that if you can't distinguish, then the computer is intelligent.
So, imagine a space alien arriving in his UFO and failing the Turing test because not only does it not know what baseball is, but can't even understand human language; maybe doesn't even experience sight and sound, but experiences the world in it's own way.
You would fail it's Touring test.
Haven't these SETI scienticians seen First Contact?
When the aliens arrive and say, "Live long and prosper," you say, "Thanks."
Geeze, why do we go to the trouble of showing people the future when they're just going to ignore it?
We have long ago moved past your primitive false left-right dichotomies.
We now classify political views under a much more advanced 11-dimensional system where most people come out as Quantum Libertarians.
The Carpenters answered this decades ago and it's already beaming it's way across the cosmos:
---------------------
In your mind you have capacities you know
To telepath messages through the vast unknown
Please close your eyes and concentrate
With every thought you think
Upon the recitation we're about to sing
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary, most extraordinary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary, most extraordinary craft
You've been observing our earth
And we'd like to make a contact with you
We are your friends
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary ultra emissaries
We've been observing your earth
And one night we'll make a contact with you
We are your friends
Calling occupants of interplanetary quite extraordinary craft
And please come in pace we beseech you
(Only of love we will teach you)
Our earth may never survive (So don't come we beg you)
Please interstellar policemen
Won't you give us a sign give us a sign that we've reached you
With your mind you have ability to form
And transmit thought energy far beyond the norm
You close your eyes, you concentrate, together that's the way
To send a message we declare World Contact Day
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft
Calling occupants of interplanetary, most extraordinary craft
Calling occupants
Calling occupants
Calling occupants of interplanetary, anti-adversary craft
We are your friends
---------------------
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
Q: How do you greet an extraterrestrial?
A: "Hello, extraterrestrial!"
Brock Sampson
So we've got guns. I wonder how intimidated a civilization that has the technology to traverse light-years through space would be of our bullets and bombs. If they wished to annihilate us, I wager they'd be able to do it without even giving us a chance to react. If an alien race should contact Earth, I think our best bet would be to at least assume that they have peaceful intentions.
Well, if you see a bunch of them walking around, holding a large book which they page through occasionally while staring hungrily at people ... time to start worrying.
Besides, we might get lucky and be able to bring down their force shields with a computer virus.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I figure this is right up there with planning what to do with the lottery money.
Please donate your spare CPU cycles to help fight cancer and other diseases
Ba weep grahna weep nini bahm!
Bah Weep Graaagnah Wheep Ni Ni Bong
"Hi, nice to meet you! Ignore the clangers, they're racists."
D E C lowC lowG
It would be (al?)mighty interesting to find out what exterrestrial conceptions of God and religion are. How many religions they have (if any), what their worship practices are... ... how much their gods like the taste of earthling flesh...
you know, that kind of thing.
... is whot bwings os tugevza tsuzay.
"Pull my finger..." :)
When the aliens arrive and say, "Live long and prosper," you say, "Thanks."
And when they arrive and say "K'oq h'U Ploq'!" (die, alien scum!), what do you say then? Think carefully, this is important.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
If they are hot aliens then "How you doin' "
I would use the age-old...
"beam me up scotty, there's no intelligent life down here"
and really *really* hope they take me with them when they leave...
anything to get off this god-forsaken rock! augh!
If I meet ET I'm going to flip him the bird.
Then give them an energon cube.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
Show them you know math! You can't use numbers, those are human constructs. Although maybe you could use Roman numerals. You could try to use an XY system and draw something like sin or cos, although they may not understand our coordinate system. I think I'd go with using geometric shapes to represent PI or something. Like this picture here.
It's a huge assumption that they are looking for others like them.
This touches on a good point.
I've always thought some of the very basic assumptions made by the "Seeking Intelligent Life" community are rather presumptuous.
The assumptions are so basic as to be almost invisible to those who make them, which appears to be nearly everybody. The primary one being that Intelligent Life will be as excited about finding Intelligent Life as we are. --The only considered variables being Intelligent Life's level of technology and level of benevolence.
Being a curious person, I decided to react to the various bits of incongruous signal peeping out from all the noise. Crop circles were one such bit of signal. There are many others. For some reason, (which is not actually, "Some Reason" but rather, like every other bit of signal, upon exploring it, a very clearly understandable reason, and not a very flattering one at that), people block out the threads, try to rationalize them away, and generally force reality through the warped lens of the current popular human belief structures. But if people manage to undo this bit of social programming and honestly look at the information available without bias or a desire to destroy it in favor of the calming, socially acceptable version, then life can be clearly seen for what it really is; The jungle on the other side of the barbed electric enclosure.
The available indicators today, (and there are many, many of them), tell us several things. . .
1. Alien Life doesn't exist within, and more importantly, doesn't perceive physical space/time the same way we do. They're better at it. More evolved. Time is a spatial vector for them along which they can move back and forth at will.
2. They don't consider us equals. Far from it; they consider us food. In much the same way we don't negotiate with cattle or share in cultural exchanges with stands of corn, we are naive to expect to be treated as anything other than a retarded ape species bearing a (significant) industrial resource value. There's a reason there are so many of us at the moment and that world politics are as they are.
3. They've been here "forever" and have been manipulating us for the same length of time.
SETI, while it is rather sweet in its child-like naivete, remains an indicator of just how fsked we really are as a race.
Bearing all of this in mind, it is hardly any surprise that people would rather block it out and live comfortably in some pretend reality. I'm sure cows do the equivalent thing on their level. --Imagine if all the cows at once decided to use all that enormous muscle power to overwhelm the gates and trample their keepers? They could do this at any moment, but they never will.
-FL
Send them this greeting in Intergalatic Common...
"All your base are belong to us!"
How about "Hey, you can't park that thing here!"
very carefully
Table-ized A.I.
...then no words will be necessary, he will understand.
There may be many worlds inhabited by those who fit our understanding of "intelligent". One of them has to be the oldest and/or most advanced. It may be us.
..."Ullo John! Gotta New Motor?"
doesn't it involve hand signals and someone playing a really loud organ?
Please, please don't kill me!
If you think about it this problem has been sovled by every parent that has raised a child . It might not be the most efficient way but it works .
We can assume that if they arrived here and did not immeadiately destroy us , that they are as interested in communicating as we are and are inteligent enough to recognise our attempts to teach them our language or learn theirs and to cooperate and help .
Word.
get a vulcan chick to spread her legs and make the hand sign right over the labia
If they actually visited Earth? It wouldn't really matter, the stupid people of the world (religious fundamentalists/xenophobes/right-wing nutjobs) would provoke them and get us all slaughtered regardless.
But this assumption, that intelligence should be enough, relies on another - that those will be similar kinds of intelligence. Which might not be true.
Look at the example with squid. Is it intelligent? Definitely. Does it help us humans in communicating with it? Not really.
Notice that I've said "us humans". The burden of finding a viable channel for communication will almost certainly lie on the more intelligent species - simply because its modes of reasoning are totally out of grasp for "lesser" one. In case of squidshumans we, as a "higher" species, didn't really manage to figure out ways of communication. And it works for vast majority of species on Earth, except those which are very simple or those which are very similar to us (and it's still far from great in this case). And no, domesticated animals don't count - we bred proper responses into them.
The intelligence we might get into contact with will be almost certainly quite different from ours - not necessarilly because of different modes of operation (hive mind for example), but also because it, most probably, had a different timescale to evolve, refine itself.
Overall, it is likely it will be more intelligent than us. And somehow I doubt it will be very close to us, diminishing even further the chance of "close enough to find common ground". At the same time we're already quite advanced, so not exactly falling into "primitive enough".
PS. As a personal sidenote: I think that, eventually, intelligence of our type, one that is well on its way to harness power over genes, is quite short, quite transitory stage towards intelligence that is fully aware, harnesses and embraces...memes. How it would think then? Here's the point - I am unable to comprehend. But we would look to it similarly like animals look to us - totally under influence of genes, not even realising next step.
One that hath name thou can not otter
"Gort! Klaatu barada nikto!"
If its name isn't Gort, we're screwed.
Have gnu, will travel.
bah weep grana weep nini bong!
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
Rather than spoil the ending of the classic sci-fi short story Omnilingual by H. Beam Piper, I'll just post a link - it's a short read, like the label says. (A team of explorers on Mars find a dead civilization, complete with an utterly untranslatable library of books....)
...and delightfully crunchy!
The ETs who are here with us on Earth are far above humans in terms of intellectual capacity and technology. So THEY are the ones who decide how any communication with a particular human will occur. The human decides nothing. For more information visit the Dr. Karla Turner memorial website at www.KarlaTurner.org
Saying anything is a bit dangerous until we know their intentions. Evolution and the process of smarter cultivates dumber for food will continue throughout space. We could well become another cattle ranch in the universe. Its best to say nothing at all because its doggy dog out there in the universe.
I would grab my towel.
printf($randomline(sigs.txt) \n "-- "$randomline(authors.txt));
-- myself
1. As a marine aviator, you shoot-down one of the invading force's attack pods using a jet fighter.
2. Crash-land your airframe in the desert a mere fifty feet from his craft.
3. Survive, completely uninjured mind you.
4. With no more effort than it takes to open an unlocked car door, board the craft to investigate. (Alien must have forgot to push-down the little knob).
5. Realize that said alien is still alive and conscious.
6. Punch alien in the head just like you're Muhammad Ali, rendering it unconscious.
7. Exclaim to said unconscious alien, "Welcome to Earth!"
8. Sit outside and light-up a big, fat cigar and bask in your own awesomeness.
9. Go write a rap song at some point. Avoid cursing in it, because you're above that shit.
Fuck yeah! America rocks!
We have found it, it's Eddie Torres the Extra Testicle.
The best way to get an extraterrestrial race to become comfortable with the idea of other races would be to infiltrate their media/communication networks and plant ideas that aliens aren't that scary, and maybe they could be quite nice.
- Start with "The day the Earth stood still" (or alien equivalent).
- Move on to some Star Trek like series
etc.
Maybe set up some conspiracy theory to get the population to think for themselves. In general, gradually get the populous happy with the idea of aliens.
Then appear and say hello.
Kinda like what's been happening on earth since mid 20th century.
I for one will welcome our new extraterrestrial overlords
[Intentionally left blank]
We sent the most loud and descriptive message we can in the 1940's.
The message consist of multiple detonations of atomic weapons and send the following message: "We have the technology to destroy our planet and we are not afraid to use it."
No federation membership for us.
Ashamed of your 15 inches?
Come visit our little blue planet and all the ladies in the neighborhood will be yours!
I suggest that we line up every piece of digital information that we have and send it all. They can get a half decent view of us that way, and maybe they will do the same at some point, giving us a world of information to sift through. Imagine the advancements if we can understand any of it, and imagine the generations of work if their language or thought is beyond us.
There's really nothing to be done if they are superior and malevolent and on the way, so why not assume they want to be friends?
Keep you mandibles where I see them!
Hi?
We've all seen enough movies to know how it should go. The greeting will be:
"Die, you bug-faced putrid tentacle freak!"
said by a U.S. Marine pulling the trigger of a flamethrower.
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73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincos_(language)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CosmicOS
CosmicOS is even a project on sourceforge, so if anybody have skills and will to contribute...
One that hath name thou can not otter
http://instantrimshot.com/
Don't use doves! It scares the martians.
Haven't any of you played Prey? It is the Native American Indians that will SAVE us!
And on a sidenote, if anyone can still find them, find the original series of DOOM novels from the mid '90s. They clearly posit that aliens found our planet centuries ago, but due to the speed of intergalactic travel it was several hundred years before they returned to dominate our planet; they came back expecting to find shepherds and sheep, and instead found lasers and nuclear missiles and space stations. Didn't expect us to advance so quickly, since the same took them millenia.
We will defeat our supposed alien oppressors, one way or another.
SETI ALPHA FIVE?!
Probably "you look nothing like your picture."
For over a century of humans describing and illustrating concepts of intelligent extraterrestrial life (and longer for beasts and demons), what are the odds that they would look nothing at all like *any* of it? If history and science have proven anything about ourselves, is that our imaginations are as limited as our intelligence. Today's tech is yesterday's magic.
and they know how to use us."
Come Here Often?
I like microcars
"Yo Momma!"
Impound their spacecraft and autopsy their bodies.
That's worked out well before.
a) We can't even talk to dolphins, though they've got some of our words. How about practicing on other intelligent Earthly species?
b) maybe y'all should turn off the movies, and tv shows, and actually *READ* some real SF (as opposed to sci-fi (pronounced skiffy, rhyming with the peanut butter, and which thinks Godzilla movies are sf....)
There are decades of short stories and novels whose theme is first contact. I remember one from the fifties, where one of our starships meets an alien ship. The ending of the story is both groups take out *ALL* navigation equipment and info, and trade ships.
Then there's a more significant issue: in a galaxy that's what, about 10G years old, and we're from a planet that's had life for over 3G years, *and* we've only had real technology based on science for barely 400 years, what are the odds that we'll meet an technologically-inclined alien race that's withing 200 or 300 years of *our* technology? I suggest the odds are vast that they're either far beyond us - on the order of a nuclear aircraft carrier to a merchant ship of the 1400's, , or far behind (if they're not up to Roman Empire standards, or, say, Turtledove's "The Path Not Taken"), they're more likely hunter-gatherers.
Start thinking of what a Prime Directive *should* be (and remember Buckminster Fuller's aphorism, "we are as gods, and we might as well get good at it"), or how to convince them that we're worth a) paying attention to, and b) that they shouldn't treat us like fire ants.
mark
Given that it is extremely unlikely that we face any physical threat due to physics, I would say we should certainly communicate, and do so through mathematics. Once we have a way to communicate using mathematics we should develop the ability to send pictures and sound and work on language. Any civilization that is developed enough to communicate likely faces similar struggles as we do, in terms of co-operation vs competition, and likely has the balance of society in the co-operation direction. This further reduces any risk and likely means that communication would be a very large net positive.
I keep seeing people posting about how much more advanced than us a species would have to be to reach earth. I simply don't see why thats true. To my knowledge we have at least general knowledge of every major technology we would need to travel between stars, and thats with NASA never having had a budget over about $34B 2007 dollars, and currently closer to half of that. If we spent less time and money on killing each other and bailing each other out, and maybe cared about something other than our own social problems, there's no reason we couldn't have people on other planets as we speak.
Consider this:
For about $135B 2005 dollars we effectively went from flying propeller planes to repeatedly placing men on the moon.
Since 2001 we have spent about $865B in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Since Fall of 2008 we have committed about $12.2 Trillion Dollars to "Economic Recovery" plans
The barrier between us and the stars is not some insurmountable technology one, its a matter of money and willpower. The only hope I see is that private interests (including SpaceX and other companies) will pursue these technologies (considering that hundreds of companies have higher revenue than NASA) otherwise I'm afraid we may never get off this miserable rock before we kill ourselves off. You wouldn't bet the uptime of a moderately important website on a single webserver, yet we continue to bet the survival of our species on a single rock floating in space.
Om nom nom!
Kill them and eat them.
It would be our only hope.
When our species encountered another intelligent sister species of near identical genetic code we obviously annihilated them off the planet. We really don't have much basis or fact to say with 100% certainty that the reason we don't co-exist with another intelligent species on Earth is because of our own doing. Humans instinctively parasitize and conquer everything in sight. If a highly intelligent species were to greet us even as friendly beings in the soul interest of simply learning about our primitive ways our ego would explode and we very likely would turn on this species like we have done to so many others extinct and living on good ole earth. The greetings may very well be friendly at first but as soon as that alien being turns his back to us - look out.
There wouldn't be any point in hiding. They'd know we're here. They've probably been watching us for a long time. They'd probably get here and back to their planet very quickly by physics we won't discover for yet another 1000 years. And they're so far ahead of us that they don't need our planet or us, anyway.
B F G
Dear Friends,
I am Prince Fayad Musa H. Bolkiah, the eldest son of Prince Jefri Bolkiah, former Finance Minister of Earth, the tiny fuel-rich planet on the outer realms.
Due to problems with a trading guild I was advised to evacuate my immediate family outside the sultanate to avoid further prosecution from them. Before I could do that I was placed under house arrest.
Before my Incaseration, I went ahead to dispatch large sum of fuel with the assistance of friend in a galaxy far away. The fuel has now been deposited as valuables into different private security and trust company for safe keeping.
In order to get the fuel I will need large quantities of the following chemical products, the mineral Be3Al2(SiO3)6,) and the chemical lement with atomic number of 79, details about this follow.
For your assistance i will compensate you with 25% of the total fuel and another 5% shall be set aside to defray any expenses that may arise.
Please I count on your absolute confidentiality, transparency and trust while looking forward to your prompt response towards a swift conclusion of this business transaction
I would ask the most simple minded question... Do you poop?
Use of relativistic missiles is idiotic unless you plan and are absolutely capable of killing off the entire universe at once without absolutely any survivors or information left over about your act.
Xenocidal psychos are a threat to any species out there. They are also fair game. ANYTHING you do to them is fine and dandy.
Including killing off 99% of the species and colonizing the remaining 1% on a planet with harshest possible survivable conditions for the said species and keeping them there for purposes of hunting and torture.
The best part?
Any evidence of use of such weapons is a good enough cause for any species to use it on you too.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
We probably want want to avoid large crowds of civilians, even *if* hypothetically they were all benevolent, accepting, and welcoming towards the extraterrestrials and there were no psychos among them. Any intergalactic travelers would almost no doubt be apprehensive (assuming they have emotions like ours :P) as they land on an alien planet... so when they open their ship's door and step on to our planet for the first time, it would probably not put them at ease if it were anything resembling the red carpet outside a Hollywood award show as celebrities exit their limo and try to make it inside.
It would probably be best to avoid attempting any types of "universal" (by our standards) hand gestures, like an open palm-arm raised upward "hi" gesture or (unless they are humanoid and have pointed ears) the Vulcan salute.
In all probability they have a completely different physiology than ours and have no way of knowing whether or they see it as "welcoming" or are doing the equivalent of an alien "grab my crotch and spit on your shoes." We have this problem even with our close genetic relatives--*terrestrial* primates. Where regardless of the culture or upbringing, we express happiness or amusement facially by smiling, inadvertently showing our teeth... yet chimpanzees do not see a smile with exposed teeth as happiness and instead see it as an act of dominance and aggression, sometimes causing them to attack unsuspecting humans. Imagine how many ways we could screw that up with an alien physiology and culture? Think "Mars Attacks!" when someone in the crowd releases a white dove because "they come in peace!" and when the the Martians see it, they freak out, kill the dove and everyone there.
So the answer is:
The team would probably a small group of four or five... and for the composition of the group, I'd have to say that Michael Crichton actually addresses this very same question in "Sphere" (the movie was crap; the novel is amazing) and he actually devotes quite a bit of pages to the reasoning behind the why. (I'd highly recommend the novel, actually, for it's relation to this question to those very interested in the idea)
Basically, the "Alien First Contact Team" is made up of:
[eyeing sig]
"No population -- no popular unrest!!"
-- Groachi saying
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra!
"Hello, alien?"
i say give him a cell phone tell him to phone home and watch the hilarity ensue as he tried to get the area code. kinda reminds me of the first time i tried calling europe..
-Noc
He's got a board, with a NAIL in it!
A/S/L?
Uh by kicking him in the nuts?
"Take me to your leader."
Morgan Greywolf, "Earth is full. Go home."
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Bentora, Bentora, Space People!
"I see you finally decided on what to wear."
I think that action movies should be our template
...All your base are belong to us
Hello, from the planet Earth.
Jack of all trades,master of none
We are screwed no matter what we do as they are far more advanced then us.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Gort, can you open this jar for me...
Hi Britney,
I would argue we've already taken the first step by teaching various primates sign language. This makes us perfectly capable of talking to other species - species extremely similar to humans yes, but different species nonetheless.
Next step? Dolphins. Dolphins have a complex language, call each other by name, and have an advanced social structure. The fact that a sonar component likely alters the "words" of their language much as body language does for us makes it language like nothing a human speaks... but that's exactly the point. We'd have to learn to use a language that probably isn't possible without the aid of technology (but tech that we can most definitely build), and we'd have to deal with the added challenge of dialects and the fact that there's no way there's a single global dolphin language - they're way too spread out for that. With dolphins were looking at a species of similar intelligence, MOSTLY similar senses, and an innate understanding that each other are in fact capable of speech, even if speech isn't quite the same thing for each species. This would be a huge step forward - we'd LEARN a language rather than teaching one, and one that's very different from human ones. We'd also get used to the idea that sometimes we need tech to talk in ways that the human body simply can't - and we'd have the first functional implementation of that field of tech.
If we can reach a point where it's possible to have a conversation with a dolphin, why not take it further? A few people have mentioned squid. We may not be able to fully "talk" to a squid, but we could probably achieve some level of communication - and as a squid's anatomy is a lot more alien to us than a dolphin's, that would be useful.
Now of course, there's likely to be even more significant differences between us and life on other planets... but if we already have experience in speaking to other species, then we're well on the way of being able to communicate with aliens. Like all technologies, you start with simple developments that aren't all that difficult with what we already have invented, and advanced the tech (and attached science) from there.
Of course, this all assumes that the aliens aren't so amazingly advanced that they can simply hand us tech to automatically understand what they're saying, in which case the answer to the question is "we don't do anything at all, they do." That's something we really CANT assume, especially if we're dealing with launching a signal to a destination light years away (which implies similar tech level) as opposed to them landing here (which means that at the very least, they're beyond us in vehicle development, and quite likely many other areas as well.)
Freeze and play dead? Someone really should have thought of that _before_ we started broadcasting radio and TV and a planet-wide basis. Those waves really don't stop when they hit the outer atmosphere you know... By now we should be fairly well-known in our galactic neighbourhood.
TV and radio braodcast are not detectable after a few dozen AU, at msot 1 light year (nearest solar system is 4 LY and galaxy width is measured in tens of thousand of LY to give you an idea). The reason for that is that the signal are not directional, and thus the strength of the signal goes weaker as you increase the sphere from which it diffuse to. At a distance we are speaking of, it is virtually undetectable. More or less you would have to make a powerful directional and very narrow signal toward another system to be detected at a few LY distance. Which is why SETI can only detect another specy which WANT to be detected for the same reason.
As for being well known , we would be well known only in a very very small corner of our galaxy EVEN if the signal could travel such a distance... At most 100 LY if you count the first radio broadcast (and be VERY very very generous).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Shotgun blast to the chest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkp-MI5hxVw
with hookers and blackjack!
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
Whoa! You just described my dating procedure!
I suggest 3-4 for a good balance.
3-3 may even be less threatening, but then they may think us too primitive.
We come in Peace - phasers on Kill !
Take our leaders with you!
This unique sig is intended to make this user more recognisable.
With a nice cup of tea, of course, and a selection of biscuits and cakes.
Next question?
Stick Men
"Good morning, sweetheart. Coffee's ready."
Tell them "Humans are best taken with a bit of salt. BBQ sauce might help too"
Not sure what I'd say, but I'd defintely have my towel with me for the trip.
Never try to beat a professional at his own game!
Well, there is a lot of room on Marklar. If Marklar here wants to bring his marklar to Marklar, that would be fine. Just take our marklar back to Marklar and bring all the marklar back with you.
I think that pretty much covers it.
Homer Simpsons Shows How
This is the ONLY ONE CORRECT WAY.
You can't handle the truth.
That one planet would be a space equivalent of a death camp. Only the primary purpose would be torture.
Torture first, extermination later.
What?
They would be a species that considers xenocide a valid strategy for first contacts with other civilizations.
No penal colonies for them.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Intelligence doesn't have to be measured in physical inventions (but I likely think it would manifest that way). Maybe the squids have the most awesome philosophy, stories, poems, songs, dance whatever.
Intelligence species don't necessarily have to care about other species - humans can't put on a good chemi-lumescent light show for beans, and maybe that makes us look F-ing retarded and boring to them - get the idea?
Other lifeforms might be so weird and alien to us, that we may never communicate effectively with them or want to because there might never be anything interesting to either of us
. For God sakes, the West has a tough enough time trying to communicate with the Middle East, let alone Ceti-Alpha 6 sand bug colonies.
..........FULL STOP.
Huh?
?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Thanks for that link! It was a great story.
The proper greeting requires one to drop trou and present one's anatomical Antarctica. What do you think all that anal probing was about? The reason they've just dropped all abductees right back off is because every time they've said 'hello', they were ignored. If we return the gesture properly we get the secrets of nuclear powered personal jet packs, flying cars, and chrome jump suits with big fins around the shoulders, just like in the pictures. Improperly, and the greeter goes FOOM. The difference is the little light bulb embedded in the tip. Good luck
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
There are lots of different kinds - human slave labor, entertainment, livable space, etc. Hell - maybe they'll use Earth as a factory to make all sorts of toxic crap, so their homeworld won't be polluted.
Having another planet will almost never be a bad thing.
..........FULL STOP.
Seriously any alien species than can traverse interstellar space is not going to be interested in talking to schizophrenic monkeys. If they exist, they certainly have the capability and the reasons, to stay hidden from us. You see, TFA answers it's own question. We're not ready to greet aliens until we can present a unified front with a single message that speaks for the consensus of humanity.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Thanks for posting that. Fascinating read, and 100% on-topic. Never thought of that being the primary method of understanding another alien culture, but it makes sense!
Before commenting on the Bible, please read it first
"Hello, want to probe my ass?"
What I find interesting and mostly overlooked about this topic is that people expect alien's to have devolved technology in the same manner and order as we have.
One example, People always say that any race that can cover the vast 'sorta' emptiness of space would be smarter than us by default. That is assuming that they, the alien's, didn't stumble upon 'Faster Than Light' travel at the same time they where working on something that would have seemed totally unrelated. If you look at some of the greatest breakthroughs here on earth you will often times see that people stumble upon them purely by accidental while working on totally unrelated stuff.
I would wager that, when we do meet some aliens, we will discover that we have some advanced technologies THEY don't (porn, novel ways to kill each other, Windows 7, batman, etc) just as they have some we don't. (Robotic sex slaves, FTL drives, novel ways to make popcorn, etc) I think it will, at least at first, lead to a "you show us yours and we're show you ours" type of friendliness but who knows if that will last once the (MP/RI)AA gets involved.
Two truely smart races would combine technologies freely as the universe is so damn huge it's not like there isn't room. Here on earth we are use to fighting over resources but in space you have trillions of empty planets, moons, etc so really there is no reason to fight over much of anything unless your race has 3.2453x10^10000000000000000 members... And even then to fight risks loosing what you already have.
Reveal as less information as possible and only proceed to reveal more valuable information once they have revealed valuable information.
Basically, say "Hi" first and then proceed to get a good two-way conversation going.
Hey don't blame me, IANAB
My biggest fear regarding aliens is if they are not offshoots of individuals but of a colony structure, such as an ant. In that instance, we would be doomed. They would not hesitate to take over our resources and us for the good of their colony.
heared about sex, heared about guns. but what about drugs ? maybe they're so damn ``high'' so the signal didn't reached out. yet.
meanwhile, bro', was that a pink elephant, yeti or e.t. ? gee...
imagine that the diffrence of IQ level between humans and some kind of ET species will be the same as the diffrence between us and apes. and that these species are searching for a new home because of theyr home planet atmosphere beeing polluted from some reason, or theyr home star dying, becoming a red giant.
now, in that case, will you have any problem in colonising a planet where the most inteligent life form are apes ? have course, this question is not for americans, they didn't had problems not even with the "red skins"...
in this case, will you even try to comunicate ?
The barrier between us and the stars is not some insurmountable technology one, its a matter of money and willpower.
You sir, are confused.
The fastest man-made item http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/q0109c.shtml reached 150,000 mph (41.67 mi/sec). Voyager 1, launched in 1977, is going only 38,500 mph as it leaves our solar system. The closest star to our solar system is about 4 light years away (5,800,000,000,000,000 miles away).
That works out to about 3,941 years to travel there at 150,000 mi/hr.
We definitely do not have the technology to accomplish or even begin that goal. We'd need a multi-generational ship, capable of growing food without sunlight. It would need to survive longer than any culture or nation has by far.
So perhaps you understand why we aren't planning to visit other stars at all now?
... is him a Vulcan? A Klingon? Borgs? Capellans?
Only after you have cut them open do you know what color their insides are.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
What I would like to know is how would our government respond. Guns & tanks or flashing lights and an organ?
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
... Then offer them an Energon goody. Works (almost) every time.
Send Chuck Norris. He will present the aliens with a subpoena demanding that they allow us to bug their spaceships.
And as Chuck Norris departs the meeting, we will have Keyboard Cat on a jumbotron with really big speakers playing to send him off.
It's only fair that we let the aliens know what they're up against.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
They've been watching our tv and listening to our news for a while now...how about we greet them with, "Let me explain..."
-- A cat is no trade for integrity!
This was settled in the late 60's....
"Gnorts, Mr Alien!"
(Read it backwards if you missed the gag...)
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
Is that supposed to worry me or console me?
["And I, for one, welcome our new squid-related overlords"]
Our best hope is that they come to our world for trade and tourism and other miscellaneous perversions.
Were capitalists we know how to deal with traders and tourists and pervs.
"What happens on earth...stays on earth".
Talking to an alien species would have a galactic equivalent of a "comfort zone".
Communicating across light years has a higher sense of safety, albeit at a cost of latency. Humans at least would be more inclined to make a sensible greeting including the most logical of introductions.
Something much closer, such as something appearing on the edge of our solar system and signaling with radio and low level lasers would get a more schizophrenic response, greetings from some, threats from others, and points in between.
Pop up in orbit with a obvious craft of any size, and even if it DOES NOTHING ELSE, the response would be truly psychotic. The nicest greetings imaginable (by the aliens) would probably involve them simultaneously reacting gently to various actions from the humans who went over the edge. Diplomacy!
If they're not amenable to conversation, we'd never get a reply. Genuinely hostile, and you'd never see it coming.
First, you brush up on your Ferengi and check out Kraixlist on subspace ISM to see if any civilization wishes to anex a freshly vacated class M planet.
When advanced human civilizations came into contact with less advanced human civilization, they most always took advantage of the technological disparity (think of the Spanish conquistadors, or just about any time Europeans came into contact with "natives"). It's nice to think that technologically advanced "aliens" would also be enlightened altruists, but, in a first contact situation, we'd be better off keeping our collective heads down and letting their actions speak for them.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
Great story. Thanks for the introduction to H. Beam Piper.
Apparently we have been judged to be slightly less stupid/self-destructive/xenophobic/intolerant than we really are... given half a chance, I'd say, "take it".
Worst outcome: They realize their mistake and throw us out of the party. Best outcome: We grow up, get civilized, and end up dating some hot Romulan chicks.
Na Nu, Na Nu would be out of the question.
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
- Hey dude, you want a beer ?
- Â&30xFB6745 Â$! KZZRGT
- PSSSSSHOOOOM !! ...
- Aww, so sorry mate for the mess it made in the vacuum you live in.
And there we are, facing 5 more billion years until the next encounter....
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
All your base?
Make earth into a culture reserve. In this way we / our government can reap benefits from alien contact while still being able to police alien visitations and limit exploitative interactions using "culture preservation" as a veil. Yes, tourists will be seen from time to time, but our culture can be made remarkably resistant to these incidents by spreading ridicule, official denial and some intimidation. This seems to have worked quite well for about 60 years now.
So, got any books entitled "To Serve Man"?
If I decide to build a vacation house in the Everglades it might get a little rough for any alligators that happen to live on "my" lot. I'm not going to care if they've been there since sometime in the Mesozoic. I'm aware that alligators have some kind of intelligence, however I'm not that interested in it. They will never understand where I came from or how I got there, or what the hell I'm doing inside that big glass box my contractor put up on their best feeding ground. Any that get in my way will be dealt with, it doesn't matter how well they plan their defense. About all they can do is hope that I'm not a predator...
Anyone who says "we've got guns and know how to use them" really should be prevented from speaking on behalf of humanity.
Let's see how this appraoch might work out:
Aliens: "Hi"
Humans: "We've got guns and know how to use them."
Aliens: "We are communicating with you from a vehicle in orbit around your moon. Feel free to fire your missiles at us but at some stage during the week it takes them to reach our position we will move away. We will head back out to the Kuiper belt and begin nudging asteriods into your orbit."
Read the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation
Read it yet? Did you understand it? No? OK. Try reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
Did that help? It didn't? Jesus fucking christ...
Our radio transmissions are too weak to be received by anyone (or anything) likely or unlikely to be listening. At a distance of only a few light years they are completely lost within the Cosmic background noise.
No, sorry, your Janeway-brand magic holodeck polarity-reversal field won't retrieve the lost signal, no matter how much or hard you pray. Tough luck, Sparky.
Shouldn't we agree on which language to greet ET in before we discuss the message? Not only will 100 different messages be confusing, but so will those messages in 100 different languages.
Bah weep gra na weep nini bong.
Rather than make an expression, the simplest thing is to probably just start counting primes, round robin with the basic elements we know.
Announce it, move an object to show it visually, perform a movement, etc...
Like in Contact. We heard the primes and knew there was some meaning there.
It could be our understanding is seriously misaligned with theirs for anything else.
And we do it nice and slow. Call out one, then wait. Call out three, then wait.
They know where the progression is, and we've opened the door for them to do something with it.
During the waits, we are paying attention the best we know how, and see where it leads.
An expression, like 2+2=4 is higher up the ladder than simple counting is. Probably not the best way to start.
Unless we missed a day in school somewhere, primes are gonna be known, and a progression of them would be seen as meaningful structure.
From there, it's a matter of their senses being able to deal with our utterances, and ours to theirs.
I don't know about you guys, but if that were to come to pass, I think I would be scared shitless and excited at the same time. Won't happen, but it's fun to think about.
Sometimes I work with my animals, or a very young baby and feel a bit of that. Not the scared part with the animals, but sometimes with the baby. Those first impressions last a lifetime!
I've managed to get into modes with the cat where we are looking at one another for a minute or so. I always wonder what the cat is thinking at that moment. Usually, animals look away quickly. When they don't, and you actually get to read them a little, it's cool.
In any case, communicating with those different from us is always fun to think about. We really are kind of lonely in that way, or we crave the learning that would come from that kind of experience. At least I can cop to both.
Blogging because I can...
Suppose we all smoke a joint. Ease the tensions a bit and who knows, if they want to commence a genocide, perhaps pot will poison their vastly different systems while it just gets us baked. Hey another reason to add onto the pile for the legalization effort!
Can't believe no one posted that one yet.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"His Master's Voice" by Stanislaw Lem.
He seems to be the only classic science fiction writer throwing cold buckets onto the ridiculous idea that it would be easy to communicate with alien intelligences.
Warn them that the Earth is infested with a plague species (Homo sapiens Linn.) which wants to take over every habitable planet in the universuum, and thank them for demonstrating their technology.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
"Hey, is that guy boring you? Why not talk to me for a while. I'm from another planet".
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
The second we started broadcasting radio signals, we started talking to aliens. When we started having geostationary satellites we started beaming signals in a beacon that made it around a shadow of a satellite sweeping the earth's rotation and orbit. Which is not perfect coverage considering other bodies and the sun, still pretty good.
We can only hope they weren't listening.
Maybe the topic of the thread is how we can develop FTL travel to jam our previous signals before they reach the destination and instead explain that most of what is broadcast from our planet represents the worst of our culture.
Assuming one of Slashdot's readers is using a satellite internet service or possibly a wireless terrestrial connection, this discussion has made it there before any light-speed communications made after discovery.
So on behalf of our planet, please don't judge us by our average citizen, also don't visit for 500 or so years because we'll probably nuke you(which will tickle your ships..possibly recharging them via energy sink shields.) Then again if any of the show you've undoubtedly watched "X-Files" is accurate, please stop abducting stupid people and keep your genetic mutation virus to yourselves. Colonize some other planet congruous to your species that is uninhabited due to recent planetary cataclysm, please.
BTW: Enjoy the LOLcats.
And no amount of sauce will fix that.
That would be near the tops on my list - you've got to consider what would drive them to seek us out and drop in to visit. Could it be there is something they need???
Most likely we would be the intragalactic Stuckey's (Cracker Barrel, if your under 40) and that would so not be cool....
All your base are belong to us!
Not enough reality on this subject.
...we'd be hard pressed to build a colony ship even if we dedicated the planet's whole productive and economic capacity into it. Even if we optimized it with those "keep me awake for a week" drugs and 100 hour work weeks....
What is needed is the right motivation.
Quite a while ago, Egyptians built Pyramids.
Chinese built the Great Wall.
Of course, it was "forced labor". Outright slavery. But they built something that still stands, awes and makes wonder how they really did it.
It _will_ take a lot of time, no doubt. A lot of innovations, inventions and sweat. But with the "right" motivation, mankind has shown its worth.
Now, what would possibly be the right motivation for interstellar travel? ...
I would bring them to the next bar and get wasted with them. Nothing better to say hello to earth than getting wasted!
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
It turns out it's man.
If that doesn't work, then bend over and kiss your ass, goodbye!
In all movies, we say hi, they look at us and answer friendly or not... but from their point of view, we re the aliens...why can we just look at them and wait for them to say HI or.. "We are here to turn you into slaves and sell your planet to the Pluthyioneans"...
Well said.
What we all need to read is this good book that teaches us in a precise, emotionless way of dealing with platenary defenses.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Imagine the humans of 1900 trying to pose a credible threat to or hide from the humans of 2009.
The Taliban and their ilk do a fair job and they're firmly rooted several centuries in the past.. and just where is osama bin laden hiding? The most advanced superpower the world has known has been trying to find him for years now with no luck at all.. cunning, guerrilla tactics and fanaticism go a long way.
And then there's Will Smith.. ;)
I will use the universal language of prime numbers
OutputLogic
"Hello, please help me get away from this bunch of lunatics!"
-= This is a self-referential sig =-
What makes these people think that because a life is not like ours that they will will harm us? We can be exactly the same, we could find life and destroy it.
Interstellar bandwidth is low, possibly hundreds of baud or less (we'll have to use an obvious but inefficient encoding such as FSK so they're sure to see it), and they won't know our language.
Start with a binary counting code, 8-bit count from 0 to 255, and maybe a "walking 1" pattern. Then send 2D images by encoding 2-color pixels. Send geometric shapes, and some obvious marker at the end of a scan line so they'll try looking at it as a 2D matrix. Make the width a power of 2 just to be sure. Once they look at the matrix, they'll see triangles and circles, and they'll know it's an image. Send the same image again but with 4 bits per pixel, to establish a gray scale image encoding for photographs.
Then send pictures of our faces and bodies, our planet, houses, and so on. They're very likely to have sent images around on their internet, so we could probably dispense with the counting and just send raw 512x512, 4-bit gray level images with a line down the right side to mark scanlines and time-gaps between images; they'll almost certainly try viewing the data as images, unless they don't have computers yet. If they don't have computers yet, wait until they do, it will be too hard to encode anything other than "we are here, let's count to 255 again" in a way that an alien 19th century Morse code operator can understand.
After images of us, send pictures of mathematical equations and equivalent diagrams, arranged to establish a symbolic language for describing mathematical and engineering principles. Assign binary codes for symbols, create an alphabet. This will take a lot of carefully designed images, but we can do it over months or years, though we will have to repeat it. Then start sending more detailed messages, things like mathematical theorems, proofs, and electronic circuits. Try to give them a feel for what we know about - biology, electronics, etc.
Technology (electronics), and by implication mathematics and physics, are the _only_ things we know for sure we'll have in common with them (since they built a radio), so that's what we should talk about first, to establish a language. Then ask them if they ever got fusion working, and send some music to see if they get it. Send information about our solar system and biology, and hope they reply in kind - cheaper than sending a starship to find out, though not as much fun.
This plan falls apart if they're blind, but I can't imagine an entirely blind race practicing astronomy and inventing radio anyway.
It could be bad if they're hostile, but if they're hostile, and they have the technology to get here, we're screwed anyway, so it seems like we can only win by talking to them.
-- Tristan
Help
Approach with gun-ports open as a sign of respect... What could possibly go wrong!
"It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum... And I'm all outta gum!"
I am a member of a group who'd like to get off this rock, go to a different rock and make different mistakes than humans have made here.
Can ya give a brother a hand?
For instance: in the television series Babylon 5, the Shadow race became an incredibly advanced race through repeated chaos and trial. Because of this, they dealt with all the minor races by attempting to instill chaos and trials so that the truly strong races could become stronger, and the weaker races were eliminated.
It was an ideological belief that chaos and destruction were the best ways to foster improvement, and they destroyed races out of an ideological, but in their minds benevolent want to improve the less advanced species around them.
FanFictionRecs.net
"Welcome to Earth. We taste terrible, by the way."
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Chemistry would work the best since there are so many obvious constants. ionization constant of pure water. All the orbitals of an iron atom. A benzene ring is ubiquitous. Curie temperatures. Melting and boiling points.
Except for the benzene ring what you are describing is physics i.e. the physical properties of materials. It might be the physics of a 100 or so years ago but that does not make it chemistry. Besides there are plenty of other obvious constants in physics: charge of an electron, mass of an electron, proton, neutron etc. nuclear masses, atomic orbital energies, spectral lines etc. although perhaps in another 50-100 years these will have been recycled into chemistry as well?
From jayessell
Let the "Super Intelligent Aliens" figure out English.
There. We have communication.
"There's nothing valuable enough or rare enough to ship between the stars".
When you buy a DVD you're paying for a few cents worth of plastic and paper.
The other $18.50 is for the information on it.
Earth has had civilization of a sort for 5000 years, but in that time has accumulated
several Exobytes of text, audio and video.
Aliens could squeeze that into a few grams of nano-assembled crystals.
This assumes they don't have interstellar quantum entanglement communication.
I hope we make a good trade for it. We can only do it once.
Energy? (We can make energy!) De-Pollution? (Well.. If we had energy...)
The Aliens should have something we didn't know we wanted.
(As seen in "Betelgeuse Bridge" on Archive . org (it's a radio show!))
Didn't we already cover this in the original Transformers the Movie??
"Bah-weep-Graaaaagnah wheep ni ni bong"
Human - (let alien sample a fishstick..everyone likes 'em) "Do you like fishsticks"
Alien - "uuhhh yeah"
Human - 'So you like putting fishsticks in your mouth?'
Alien - 'yeah'
Human - 'then you're a gay fish'
hilarity will ensue...
If the ET is smart, they'll realize this planet is just one big loony bin, and put up warning signs.
I mean half or more of the people of the planet have an imaginary friend who they believes talks to them and while completely unseen helps them out when things go wrong, and tests their faith when he ignores them.
"Is that a ray gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to be here?"
All you world belong to US.
With some Reeses Pieces.
...
After seeing World of Warcraft, they would understand that we have superior weaponry and armor.
Okay so I watched the first episode of "How do you solve a problem like Maria?"...cute teen girls, folks. And at the end, Andrew Lloyd Webber himself calls up a couple of the girls that didn't make the first cut. All but one of them was very reserved and ultra polite. I thought that if that happened in America there would be so much bleeping in the audio and dog-level pitched screaming. So, if you meet an alien, take a cue from the Brits.
Fuck it and eat it!
... well, this is awkward.
Well, apparently, you only have to fool the majority of people for a little while.
Here's one response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQoSCEMzJYE&NR=1
Starring Morena Baccarin. As a bad guy. Man, is that genius. I'd probably do whatever she told me to do.
--
$tar -xvf
"All your base are belong to us."
All our base are belong to you.
I can't believe no-one's mentioned this one. An alien species, more technologically advanced but with much less depth of thought, compassion or empathy than displayed by (some) humans. Technology doesn't necessarily equate with moral values that we would recognise. Hell, geographical distribution on Earth leads to some serious disparities in ideas about "right" or "wrong".
Time to call in the Men In Black.....
"Life is pain Highness. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something"
Westly, The Princess Bride
I think our only hope would be that a race advanced enough to make it here would be peaceful. Maybe a bad assumption, you'd have to do like Teddy Roosevelt, talk softly but carry a big stick.
I also think it's entirely possible that we wouldn't be able to relate to the aliens in any meaningful way. Maybe they spend all their days exchanging various molecules between themselves and us talking to them face to "face" and hitting them with exhaled CO2 would be a grave insult.
"Come Get Some"
Before you design for reuse, make sure to design it for use.
A\S\L?
light, fast, and based on wave nature of light or ordinary EM waves bundled in some advanced constructs.
Why material beings?
What about "energy beings" ?
Maybe they can transfer consciousness into energy constructs that travel like EM waves through spacetime.
If so then they could be all around and we could never measure them.
and now you spilt the secret!
You thoughtless slashdot jerk!
CmdrTaco is overtaken by the powers of Oog Uug
Now Oog Uug knows about our deceit and treachery.
Prepare for attack!
My personal favorite is: "Our planet is decaying in its own filth, and is best avoided by all aliens"
Other choices are: "We are a benign species, opposed to interplanetary conflict, and believe in equal opportunity for all beings, regardless of age, race, gender, sexual orientation or planet of origin", "Congratulations on your birthday", and "We look forward to sharing the many benefits of our combined knowledge".
Our radio emissions are effectively omni-directional, and as such, fall off like 1/r^2... so for all practical purposes, those "I Love Lucy" reruns are lost in the noise. If they had an idea what carrier frequencies we were using, and did something like FFT over a really, really long integration time, they might pick something up, but I doubt it. There's too much space and doing so would take too long.
bend over you green blooded slime balls we gonna tear ya a new one!
See The Disclosure Project to start.
The SETI program is crap, has always been crap, and is a waste of time/resources...much like this article.
"If you come in peace, surrender or be destroyed. If you're here to make war, we surrender."
Ever since I was a boy (back in the 1960's when space was exciting) I've wondered what I would say if encountering a non-terrestrial intelligence. I still go with my answer then ...
"How do you finance your space program??"
--
"I gotta get off this rock!"
I like Ian Punnett's idea - let the aliens know who the "tasty" ones are. He's constantly calling Canadians "Tasties" and our "Tasty friends to the North."
"We're still just slightly smarter animals at heart, once you strip away the thin veneer of technology and what we laughingly call "civilization". We can't even get along with OURSELVES and our own differences let alone a race that didn't evolve here. We're bigoted, racist, and sexist: We can't decide, AS A RACE, whether we owe our existence to one supernatural being or another, or did we evolve? We make war on our neighbors over resources and things that matter even less than that. We treat people differently, sometimes even ATTACKING them, because their skin is a different color. We treat our females as second-class citizens. Furthermore we mistreat and mismanage the biosphere we live in, poisoning it with our industrial wastes, destroying parts of it out of ignorance or greed, or because it suits us to do so, and damn the consequences." - by kheldan (1460303) on Sunday June 07, @12:36PM (#28242001)
Agreed, 110%... because, if I were looking down @ us/observing us? I'd state "that solar system is to be banned & avoided, it is a house full of the 'viruses of the spirit'", basically.
(And, it is SUCH an f'ing shame, but you're pointing out EXACTLY who we are, most of the time (though William Shakespeare said it best "How like a God man is in contemplation, & how like a beast in apprehension" etc. et al, we DO have our "good side" too, but it's not always apparent, or the reasons for being good are actually quite petty ones, rather than sincere ones, unfortunately))
I.E.-> Imo, @ least? FIRST?? We need to "mature/grow up" as a species, as cliche as that sounds.
APK
P.S.=> I've often said that to my pals, my initial statement - that IF I were looking down & observing us? I would probably go to our governments worldwide & tell them "IF you don't learn to live with one another, peacefully & in cooperation for the good of all? YOU STAY DOWN THERE, or we blow you away... our children play out here, & we want NONE of your "space ghetto" violence & mental poison spreading to our kids. You have been warned..." , pretty much like Michael Rennie said as KLAATU, in the original "The Day the Earth Stood Still" (great flick, the original, that is - says a HELL of a lot!)... apk
It's a sign of respect.
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
Baw Weep.
Bah Nah Weep.
Niddy-grod!
They just don't get it.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
To avoid any hostility, do not greet them with:
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
>What would you say first to an alien?
Gesundheit, perhaps? :)
I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down...
(sorry, couldn't resist)
Going to the moon was emotionally significant, not really scientifically significant. Yes, we confirmed some things and learned a few other things. Mostly what was learned had to do with human nature, not hard, practical, science.
Go write a scifi self help book. Spend your money going to Mars. Please. We may actually see humans on Mars in the next hundred years. Going to any other solar system is 100,000+ major physics breakthroughs away.
Force = Mass x Acceleration is tough to beat. For a given acceleration, you need power and mass. Lots of power and even more mass. The amounts for each are huge to get to another star. The only hope is to find a way around that law of physics via a breakthrough or 1,000s of them.
Moore's Law about computer performance simply doesn't work for non-computer related things. Sorry. It would be nice if it did. It doesn't.
Humans need to become star travelers or our species **is** going to die out. We know the end is coming and there's no way out of it unless we leave our solar system. Someone else can worry about all this ... later.
Some things are simply impossible. They cannot be done with current knowledge. Future knowledge introduces a different set of assumptions.
It is impossible for a pine tree to learn to speak English. Can we agree on that? It is impossible. If you alter the pine tree so it can speak, then it isn't a pine tree any longer.
Perhaps this will help. I think that time travel of 200 lbs 5 minutes backwards in time is more likely than living humans being able to travel to another star in the next 100,000 years of technological advances.
Getting humans to Pluto and back is trivial in comparison. We can do that today with enough money and will power. Pluto is about 3,667,000,000 miles from Earth. Traveling at 150,000 mph (instantaneously, which is bad), that trip is about 2.8 Earth years there and 2.8 years back. All power would need to be taken with us for our 6 year trip. Power for light, heat, growing food, maintenance shop, recycling waste and water, propulsion, breaking, everything. http://www.skythisweek.info/constant1g.pdf may be helpful in calculating the real trip time but assumes we wouldn't run out of power of fuel. That's a bad assumption.
Trip to another star - currently impossible.
Trip and landing on Mars, which could be terraformed for human living - possible.
Trip and landing on Saturn or Jupiter or Nepture or Unanus - impossible. Humans would be crushed by gravity during landing.
Trip and landing on Pluto - possible.
Steps towards interstellar travel need to be taken with the goal to build multi-generational, self-sustaining, interstellar colony ships. I don't want to go, but some people might.
Was a quick post, what can I say?
Blogging because I can...
# ## ###
1 2 3
# + ## = ###
1 + 2 = 3
# = 1
## = 2
### = 3
1,2,...,9,10,11,...,18,19,20,21,...,98,99,100,101,...
That is where you start to explain the numerals we use and give examples of the symbols we use for equality, divison, subtraction etc. It shoudl convey we have a decimal system with symbols (numerals) indicating quanity and how the scale progresses.
The for a given language (say english) you would put in a condensed:
(Picture of an apple)
APPLE
(Recording of somone saying Apple)
A is for Apple, Ape, Achivement,b is for boy, bag, bong, baby,c is for cat, can, color, ... , x,y,z
(recording of someone saying the alphabet with an example of a word with it)
This will help express that symbols have sounds associated with them and that stringing together letters make words.
(red colored square)
Red Colored Square
(red colored triangle)
Red colored Triangle
With the Red example we assume they have figured out that we are A: Intelligent and B: Trying to explain things to them at this point.
The Red Colored Square and Red Colored Triangle is telling them two basic grammar points: adjectives and nouns.
Then we would do a:
(Picture of a horse standing)
Horse
"The Horse is standing"
(Picture of a horse running)
"The horse is running"
From that point they could quickly develop a noun, verb, adjective, adverb understanding of a language. Then they just have to pull a Leeloo and watch a bazillion years worth of TV to get the idea.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
"Don't make me call Chuck Norris you green blooded cowards!"
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
Off topic but - Wow, great story Scott! Do you have any other recommendations of good scifi on gutenberg? I really enjoyed the read :-)
australian project gutenberg is better than the original.
"Don't make me call Chuck Norris you green blooded cowards!"
Yep. That would do it.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
First, I would hand them a ruler, then a protractor. In effect, "We use symbols to communicate". If I didn't have those handy, I would show them some money.
-- Consensus - 50% probability that the majority are wrong.
Yo hommie!
OR
FUCK YOU!!!