Slashdot Mirror
Montana City Requires Workers' Internet Accounts
justinlindh writes "Bozeman, Montana is now requiring all applicants for city jobs to furnish Internet account information for 'background checking.' A portion of the application reads, "Please list any and all, current personal or business websites, web pages or memberships on any Internet-based chat rooms, social clubs or forums, to include, but not limited to: Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube.com, MySpace, etc.' The article goes on to mention, 'There are then three lines where applicants can list the Web sites, their user names and log-in information and their passwords.'"
They are seriously asking for people's passwords? If this some kinda of social engineering test where if you actually put them down you fail?
There is a war going on for your mind.
"One thing that's important for folks to understand about what we look for is none of the things that the federal constitution lists as protected things, we don't use those. We're not putting out this broad brush stroke of trying to find out all kinds of information about the person that we're not able to use or shouldn't use in the hiring process," city attorney Sullivan said.
I don't know how much broader you can get - passwords indeed!
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Glad I don't live in Montana... I am absolutely shocked that they're requesting passwords. I'd tell them to go to hell and shove the application where the sun doesn't shine.
Guess no Slashdotter is ever going to work for the City of Bozeman.
Um. No.
If it deters people from applying for city jobs, it could prove to be a good thing.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
If they are able to hire people with these policies, then they are hiring people that they deserve, and those being hired are getting what they deserve. I honestly cannot envision going into a job interview and writing down, on a piece of paper that will end up who knows where, all of my user names and passwords, for every account I have on the Internet. I have trouble envisioning the idiots who would do so, but I'm guessing they look like the people who came up with this policy. And they deserve each other.
According to the online poll accompanying the article, 98% of respondents think it's an invasion of privacy.
That's as big a landslide as it gets, folks.
Why should workers have to supply personal information that isn't in any way relevant to the job? Why should workers give their bosses the means to invade on their personal lives? I realize there are cases (mainly national security type jobs) that may view these as compromising security, but then they should only require NDAs or, at worst, closing these accounts.
FTFA: "No one has ever removed his or her name from consideration for a job due to the request, Sullivan added."
Then they're getting exactly what they asked for. Considering that users will hand out their passwords for a chocolate bar, this sort of line doesn't scare me much any more. Is that sad or am I just bitter?
If pressed, I would consider handing out the *wrong* passwords, though; when they come back saying they couldn't log in, I'd alert it to the sites in question as a TOS violation, employment discrimination, etc..
That is just plain moronic. You do NOT ask for people's passwords ever. That's bloody ridiculous. You'll get a total of two types, liars who give you nothing or fakes, or idiots you actually give you this info.
"Please list any and all, current personal or business websites..." Really? Even if they can justify asking for personal information, business websites could include things like previous employer intranet logins, personal bank accounts, etc. If presented with a job application that included this kind of stuff, I would run, not walk, to the nearest exit.
âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Asking for your online hangouts is in poor taste, but asking for your USER NAMES AND PASSWORDS is in absolutely horrendous practice. It'll probably breed an entire employee base that's comfortable with putting in their user name and password into a site that TOTALLY looks like their bank's website except it has some odd porn ads for some reason.
Do the user names and passwords to Banking Sites count as Business Accounts? Mortgage Accounts, e-trade accounts? Crazy Bozeman, MO city HR people. HR should stick with paper hats and cake. It is the only thing they are good at.
That's all I have to say.
1. Create Account with social site
2. Put name and password on app
3. Wait for it to be leaked and abused
4. Profit!
No need to get a job - this is like money in the bank.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Seriously? The only logical comment I can come up with for this is "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahaha!!"
/. but this has got to be one of the biggest jokes ever... I'd expect to see something like that on April 1st...
I know, not the deepest comment ever posted on
I just told them that even if I wrote down passwords, they are all written in Klingon and are only usable on Klingon keyboards, so they would be of no use to them. I was hired on the spot.
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine -- Robert C. Gallagher
It has come to our attention that you lied or omitted information on your employment application. We have found out that you neglected to mention that you registered at creative.com 8 years ago to download some drivers and 3 years ago at dvorak.org/blog when you posted "get of my lawn".
This is completely without merit and rather insane. I would walkout right then and there. As long as I show up and perform my duties as required my employer has right or even need to look into my personal life.
Hopefully banks do not have any forums or chat rooms on their pages.
So, they are offically asking to violate the Terms of Service of all of these services?
I'm sure that each one has a policy about not sharing login information for your personal accounts.
What's next, asking for your login for your banking information, so they can see how you spend your personal money?
Personal background checks are fine (and valid for many jobs, maybe not for a rank-and-file city job, but meh).
But they need to be done properly and honestly. This is just a really lazy and silly way to do it.
Obviously this policy and application wasn't vetted by anyone with a clue.
Good luck with that.
Yeah sure, here's my wonderful web page with absolutely no offending material. And look, it shows my love for the city of Bozeman, MT!
What? Is that all of my accounts? Of course it is!
I mean, what are they going to say if you only give them the accounts that you want them to see, or better yet, say that you don't have any, except an email address (which is one you just created on Google Mail and has no connection to anything else you have online)?
I wonder what bureaucrat came up with that great idea.
Of course, on the other hand, it's sort of a Darwin Award test for people who are both dumb enough to have compromising material online and who are not imaginative enough to realize that there is no way in Hell that they can enforce that.
What is the worst they can do? Sure they can try to tie you to an account, but that would involve money and time. If you put down nothing, the onus is on them to prove that you are telling the truth.
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
Maybe my bank access info?
Keys to my house?
Maybe a beaver shot of my wife?
MO = Missouri
MT = Montana
There is a LOT of stuff that prospective employers can't ask you (race, sex, family status, disability, etc.). One of those things is asking you about social organizations you belong to (presumably because someone could derrive illegal information from this like your age, nationality, religion, etc.). Asking for your Facebook/Myspace/etc. information would almost CERTAINLY fall under this (since things like age/sex/etc. are standard categories on most social websites, and this information is supposed to be basically anonymous) and is really opening them up for a rather impolite visit from the EEOC.
I suspect that, in these hard times, it's just that no one has bothered to file a claim against them yet.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
They DID say "Please"...
Further instructions on the form:
16d. Please analyze your own handwriting for us, and supply a full report on whether the results show that you may be predisposed to workplace violence.
16e. Please build your own polygraph machine, administer the test to yourself, and let us know whether it turns up any proclivity for white collar crime.
Find free books.
Most of those sites (if not all of them) probably state in the TOS that you are not to share your login information. So... they're asking people to violate their agreements, and won't hire people who refuse. For example, Facebook's Terms section 4 item 6 states "You will not share your password, let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account."
Brilliant. If you want to bribe a city official, go to Bozeman, because they only hire people who violate policy.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
User: Anonymous Coward
Password:FAH-Q
Is there any level at which collective action (otherwise known as 'government') is a good thing? What is wrong with city jobs? Would you have the private sector take over all functions of government, on all levels? I would think, at the very least you would be in favor of a public police force to protect your property. No matter how many guns you have, someone has more, and is more willing to use them than you are. Fire departments are nice, too. As are public roads. In fact, I can't think of many things that city governments currently do that the private sector could do better. The private sector exists to give you as little value for your dollar as you can be convinced to accept. The government is an agent working on your behalf.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I have lived in Bozeman for the past decade. Our city council is the most asinine civic body I have ever encountered. The tech company I work for is located out of city limits due to their gross inability to complete rudimentary city tasks such as to approve building plans. Asking for passwords is pretty impressive, however...hats off to these guys!
0 = 1 + e^(Alt something)
What if City is just testing their people how easily they give information which is related to their work on City?
If you give, you fail.
The potential for misuse is absolutely incredible. I recall reading many events during which folks at the US Social Security Administration were looking up political candidates' records, where hospital employees in Los Angeles were looking up the medical records of celebrities that visited their hospital for care.
Now they want me to let the HR drones have the ability to log into my facebook, slashdot, etc accounts?
... nobody knows you are a Montana worker.
Why are they concerned about who you've been poking? And what if they are members of, say, a porn site? Do they really expect them to write "I'm a member of turtlescopulating.com"? Nobody will know that Joe Smith is "longandwild87".
I say workers should just create a Gmail account called FuckYouBozemanLaw@gmail.com and start emailing their representatives.
Aeroespacio.org
City attorney Greg Sullivan gets bonus points for starting every sentence in the interview with the word "so."
You're all looking at this the wrong way - it's now become easier to fake who you are on a resume than ever before!
Step 1: Create fake profiles with perfect friends and political affiliations to suit your employer.
Step 2: Make bogus filler posts
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Prof--err, hired!
Has anyone told Scott Adams (Dilbert) about this one yet?
I love the way they say "none of the things that the federal constitution lists as protected things"... so the right to privacy is not protected in the US? But i remember a judge throwing out a case where a cop read someone's diary without a warrant... the Judge rules that the right to privacy is essential to the right to free speech, for if we must censor our thoughts, we cannot be free.
The scary thing is, if things like this spread, they become impossible to avoid. Given a choice of working (and so not being homeless) or being free, well, most people will trade in their liberty, and those who don't starve or end up in jail, and the bastards *win*.
Give'em that, turn around, sue their behinds off. Looks like homer to me.
I'm don't think they actually ask for passwords. I wish I could see the form.
But password aside, I figure I have thousands of web site accounts. An order of magnitude more if you count tracking cookies. I could easily fill three lines with meaningless info.
To me this would be an ultimate chance for some humor on my application. I would start writing down random sex sites (nothing illegal) and perhaps a few online dating sites, then make up some fake profiles. Hopefully that would teach these folks not to be so damn nosy.
I am sorry, I do not understand.
quoting:
"So, we have positions ranging from fire and police, which require people of high integrity for those positions,..."
police. high integrity. ...head asplodes.
given that police have to be UNDER a certain IQ (google arond for the connecticut case where a cop applicant was denied for scoring TOO HIGH on an iq test!) I'm not so sure that cops are 'high integrity' individuals.
they need to be able to beat you senseless and not have an issues at all about it. and lie if it means covering for their fellow cops.
high integrity, indeed!
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Isn't that where the Vulcans landed?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
What else would you expect?
http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS?hl=en
6. Your passwords and account security 6.1 You agree and understand that you are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of passwords associated with any account you use to access the Services. 6.2 Accordingly, you agree that you will be solely responsible to Google for all activities that occur under your account.
5.6 You agree that you are solely responsible for (and that Google has no responsibility to you or to any third party for) any breach of your obligations under the Terms and for the consequences (including any loss or damage which Google may suffer) of any such breach.
Facebook's terms of service are just as strict.
4.6 You will not share your password, let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.
I for one would not give that information and would suspect that the City is in violation of some law or other and that my providing usernames and passwords to these accounts would constitute my violation of terms of service and would get me in lots more trouble.
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
So, they are offically asking to violate the Terms of Service of all of these services?
I think actually the city is asking people to violate the law by giving city hiring folks unauthorized access to computing facilities. Users of Facebook/Myspace/etc. are not legally owners (or agents acting on behalf of owners) who can declare what is and isn't authorized access.
This sounds like FUD to me. A quick look at the application for employment doesn't have anything like this on the forms. http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/humanResource/forms/Application%20for%20Employment.pdf I'm not sure where this news organization gets their info, but that doesn't sound right.
believing the big bang requires a certain amount of supernatural faith
We all know to Net-proof kids right from single-digit ages not to provide identifying information to electronic correspondents that might be predators.
Now we're going to have to remember that "predators" needs to include "employers over a decade from now that may seize upon internet forum posts to take away your job or ruin your life".
So, kids: always set up accounts under a pseudonym. Use DIFFERENT pseudonyms. Strictly limit the friends that can connect your True Name (thx, Vernor Vinge) to your pseudonyms. And do not provide specific identifying information in any post. In forums that require True Names to work right (facebook), have Mom & Dad help you learn to consider words, and especially photos, carefully.
What they post at nine won't be held against them, but if you start developing their radar early, the appropriate attitudes of privacy and subterfuge will be reflexive by the late teens.
As for that first generation now looking for their first jobs with all kinds of youthful exuberance on the internet not staying on the internet - yikes, sorry, you're screwed. As the joke poster says, it may be your job to provide an example to others.
You'll get a total of two types, liars who give you nothing or fakes, or idiots you actually give you this info.
hang on. I now see the logic in this.
this is for GOVERNMENT work. I think you just described the ideal government civil-service worker!
maybe there's more thought to this than it appears.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I don't know if this is a very accurate site, but I think I have used it before. Check out the stats on income and house prices... it's insane! City-Data for Montana City
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
Even though the mere thought of asking people for passwords is totally lunatic, I think this is waaay bigger.
Why the hell do they think I should tell them what I do in my free time? Should I also list the clubs I frequent? Make a list of all people I shagged? Books I read recently?
I think not only the people hiring and the people applying get what they deserve, but so do the voters.
This is what paranoia buys you.
If I was hiring, I might ask this question. And anyone foolish enough to give me their passwords would be rejected flat out as a security risk.
This may be a libelous/slanderous statement against the officials of the city of Bozeman, Montana, but fuck'em! Bozeman officials: You are crazy, stupid, mother*#(kers:
"That was the case for one person who applied for employment with the City. The anonymous viewer emailed the news station recently to express concern with a component of the city's background check policy, which states that to be considered for a job applicants must provide log-in information and passwords for social network sites in which they participate.
The requirement is included on a waiver statement applicants must sign, giving the City permission to conduct an investigation into the person's "background, references, character, past employment, education, credit history, criminal or police records."
"Please list any and all, current personal or business websites, web pages or memberships on any Internet-based chat rooms, social clubs or forums, to include, but not limited to: Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube.com, MySpace, etc.," the City form states. There are then three lines where applicants can list the Web sites, their user names and log-in information and their passwords."
But, now i'm thinking this is a tactic to reduce the pool of applicants to government jobs there... Or, some lame "child-protection" law used as a smokescreen for other reasons...
Why the FUCK should a citizen/applicant provide their PASSWORDS AND USER ACCOUTS? For private activity? Even in the WORKplace, most companies and government agencies stress the importance of keeping passwords private.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Lets have some fun with that. Let them hire a bunch of people so in a couple of months like 9 months.. we all try to hack into their servers a steal the password list, then publish the story here, that Bozecrap city lost the password to al the accounts of their employee. It would be funny to watch them soo humiliated! Then we trash the passwords.. no fun with that.
Judging by TFA, it was apparently vetted by their city attorney. Maybe even written by him.
Oh, wait. Anyone with a clue. Never mind. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along, move along.
what you can get away with in a down economy.
It cant be! Isn't Montana one of the reddest of the red states populated by rugged individuals who cherish their liberty more than their lives? Where did that post come from? The Onion?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Name: Philboyd Studge
Organization: NRA ( National Rifle Association)
URL: N.R.A.
UserId: Uzziowner
Password: SportsmanNumber1
Notes: Buy more ammo for protection from Communists, Russkies, and DemocRATS.
I hope this helps stops the pinko commie DemocRATS.
Yours In War
Kilgore Trout
that nasty image of:
"two applicants, one job"
or, something like that. I might have gotton some of the words wrong.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Seriously, wtf? First you tried getting red light cameras (Which was quickly killed off by the state), and now this. What happened?
Have they actually hired anyone that fell for their phishing scam or is that the test?
Why bother
That's definitely a very 'grey' area for invasion of privacy, however, it's a double-edged sword. I would definitely not ever hand out any of my personal login credentials to anyone regardless of some baseless attempt to poke into my personal life, but when you get down to it, I don't have anything hiding under a secret, social internet rug, either. It's a good ideas to weed out potential douche bags with less than a shake of common sense not to plaster their beer drinking photos all over public internet mediums, however, if it doesn't impact their daily job performance at work, I say let them make all the fools of themselves online as they want, but the day it impacts them at the work place, hit them with the pink slip. Besides, doesn't the 90-day probationary period most employment places have pretty much handle this already? It won't give them a Facebook/MySpace/whatever account, but why need an excuse to fire a bad employee? So, you make a bad hiring decision as a company/manager/boss, simply repremand or fire, learn from your mistake and move on and get better at your interviewing skills.
I always use the same screen name, "biteme" and the password, "fuckoff42".
Let me first say that it is obvious that the request is over-broad. I can't imagine anybody turning over their complete passwords; I certainly wouldn't. However, for political appointees, a request to reveal your online "handle"(s) is both legal and common. If you are going for a political job, it makes perfect sense to make sure your appointees don't have publicly accessible views incompatible with your administration.
However, for civil servants, yeah... tell them to go jump in a lake. The request for information on your personal life is none of their business, and probably highly illegal. It is not a problem, nor is it relevant, if an assistant librarian hangs out with the local Klan after hours. It would be relevant for the mayor's chief of staff though...
SirWired
Heck, I'd have trouble *writing* some of my passwords. My really complex ones are purely by finger/type memory.
This is rich. I hope nobody is dumb enough to give up all this just because they're asking for it.
Judging from a past encounter with a guy claiming to be a firefighter in Bozeman, I now wondering if they've been having problems with city employees posting questionable material. A while back I got into a bit of an argument with some guy claiming to be a firefighter from Bozeman, MT when he posted some racist garbage about President Obama on a friend's Facebook wall.
I still have a screen shot of it and I'm now tempted for forward it along.
but I think I'll go apply to work for whoever has the city of bozeman's garbage collecting contract.. and do whatever it takes to collect the trash from the city offices. j/k, of course.. now, where did I put those rubber 'dumpster diving' gloves?
-Troll, Flamebait, and Offtopic are NOT equivalent to disagreement.
That understand that violating peoples' privacy is wrong, even when your intentions are good.
He also needs to understand Terms of Service and that asking people to provide passwords can be a violation of ToS.
Okay, who's already incorporated and wants to make a few quick million with me?
Step 1: Create some social websites
Step 2: Require the person to check a box asserting they are the individual they are logging in as, and if they are not, explicitly require payment (along with assertion of authority to authorize said payment--I recommend requiring a valid bank account number on the second login screen). A real user of course, can bypass this screen via private login url, or simply indicating that they really are bob.
Step 3: file job application with username and passwords, and wait for the profit to roll in. Alternately--if they checked the box, file charges for unauthorized access and be sure to subpoena *every* computer, router, and printer in city hall-the same as police would in a real investigation.
is a complete hex string of the pirated Wolverine mp3. Store that in your database, suckers!
No, seriously, is this a test?
...what is that smell?... wait a second, I remember that smell.... it smells like ... bloodthirsty sharks....
One where anybody dumb enough to give out that info automatically fails for an inability to maintain the most basic of security measures and violating the use agreement or policy of the online services they use...
[sniff]
RUN! THE LAWYERS ARE CONVERGING FOR A FEEDING FRENZY!!!
this is for GOVERNMENT work. I think you just described the ideal government civil-service worker!
maybe there's more thought to this than it appears.
Sorry, I'm calling BS on this. I've worked as a U.S. federal civil servant, in the private sector, and in academia.
Sure there are the occasional hosers, but most of the civil servants with whom I've worked are just as intelligent (often more so, actually) and hard-working as their private/university counterparts.
They probably had to fire someone for something sleazy recently, something that would have come out "if only" the city had known of the person's email address(es) and social networking logins.
I'm in big trouble if I apply with them and they do a complete background check.
-A. Coward
Tax Dollars At Work People!
And that tax money is now gaurantee people dumb enough to provide that information work in goverment.... ufda!
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I think it's pretty obvious that they are looking for employees that don't waste their time on the internet logging into chat rooms and social networking sites.
Or liars. Maybe they are looking for lots and lots of liars. It is the government, after all.
Check the form, they really do ask for that. http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/humanResource/forms/Background_Check_Form_MASTER.pdf or http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/humanResource/forms/Background_Check_Form_Interview_MASTER.pdf "Please list any and all, past and present, personal or business website or web pages, memberships on any Internet-based chat rooms, social clubs or forums, to include but not limited to: Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube.com, MySpace, etc."
My keychain has over 500 entries. That's not going to fit in 3 lines! Even assuming I was inclined to hand over things like the password on my colo server, it'd be like the hovercraft license scene from "The Butterfly Kid".
When this gets bounced out of court as un-Constitutional, I hope the city fires their attorney, Greg Sullivan. It's one thing for a clueless HR person to come up with BS like this, but it's the job of people like Sullivan to review it for legality issues. This guy is clearly not up to the job if he allowed this to pass.
And, really, if I give them no information at all, how are they going to prove it? "Anyone not here, please raise your hand."
Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
Either i get fired for not disclosing them
or
Someone already there gets fired because i did and they were stupid enough to check on the NSFW sites i belong to.....
Perhaps the HR dept could sue the city for making them view the ...............
The poll in TFA is funny: 98% against, 1% for, and 1% don't care. I'm surprised the "don't care" isn't much higher given the level of apathy about ANY topic in this country, but who is the genius that instituted this policy, which is totally obvious to the most casual observer as being completely absurd?
I don't see the problem if you belong to enough social sites. Just put every place site you have signed up to on the three lines. If they can get an electron tunneling microscope set up to read what you put down, then they deserve a shot. Oh, and forget to tell them that you scrambled the password-site-username lists.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
N/A
Maybe that's the point. You can always fire them for falsification on the application later on if the person doesn't work out.
So, they are offically asking to violate the Terms of Service of all of these services? I'm sure that each one has a policy about not sharing login information for your personal accounts.
Ah, but let's follow this to its logical conclusion. Violating the ToS of an Internet website is now a federal crime (don't believe me? See http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/30/2014248&tid=123), so they're urging you to commit a federal crime. That's conspiracy, my friend, and the federal slammer for them. Do that a few times, with a few other job applicants, the RICO statutes might apply. I hope Bozeman, Montana has a lot of money in their budget to defend against federal criminal indictments and charges...
Hello? Ah, Mr Victim, I'm glad to say that I've got the go-ahead to lend you the money you require. Yes, of course we will want as security the deeds of your house, of your aunt's house, of your second cousin's house, of your wife's parents' house, and of your grannie's bungalow, and we will in addition need a controlling interest in your new company, unrestricted access to your private bank account, the deposit in our vaults of your three children as hostages and a full legal indemnity against any acts of embezzlement carried out against you by any members of our staff during the normal course of their duties... no, I'm afraid we couldn't accept your dog instead of your youngest child, we would like to suggest a brand new scheme of ours under which 51% of both your dog and your wife pass to us in the event of your suffering a serious accident. Fine. No, not at all, nice to do business with you.
Montana is crazy about background checks. For example, faculty job applicants at University of Montana must agree to a background check even to interview for a job (http://www.umt.edu/jobs/FAC/apfe.html).
Only in Montana can one buy a handgun with no more than a driver's license (http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/a/gunlaws_mt.htm), but must go through a full background check to give a talk at the university.
...darn! They'll be able to access my super-secret porn server!
You'll get a total of two types, liars who give you nothing or fakes, or idiots you actually give you this info.
hang on. I now see the logic in this.
this is for GOVERNMENT work. I think you just described the ideal government civil-service worker!
maybe there's more thought to this than it appears.
Oh hi. I'm a rocket scientist. Welcome to NASA, your friendly national air and space administration, run by civil servants.
My kingdom for a mod point! :D
Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
appropriate response, that is.
Go to hell.
After enough well-qualified applicants refuse, they'll reconsider the requirement - probably after half the existing workforce quits because they're overworked.
Truck driver, plumber, Linux systems engineer.
I'd say you get a fair amount of people in positions that should not be there, but are there for various reasons (liek seniority) and are entrenched and hard to remove. So you have people doing jobs they don't know because the job they did know was elimintated and they had 10 years. So the guy who knew his job, but only ahd 3 years is let go so they can keep the guys with 10 years.
You also get a fair amount of the "that's not my job" types. Their job has a job description and a list of tasks on their yearly review. If a task does not show up on them, they refuse to do it. They have the right to be this wy, because they do do the task that are on their yearly review. In the private sector (non-union), you get rid of these people.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
My bet is all the applicants responded with: "What's a web page?"
Who the hell would want to work for people like this? F*&% you!
1. apply for job, omitting that section
2. not get hired
3. sue for discrimination against people of intelligence
4. profit: receive large settlement
Only three lines? Let's see...
Bebo, Facebook, Slashdot, Gmail, Launchpad, Fedora Wiki, Archive.org, Twitter, Wikipedia, and Hotmail. *Whew*
I'd better write really small.
they just change them arbitrarily, and if you are lucky enough, they will tell you that your password has been changed.
Sysadmins are the only people who could ever truly need to know your password, and I've been bagering my friends for years to not even give it to them. I remember for years a tenth of the battle.net window would be a warning telling people the same thing.
Now, just wait until other companies get wind of the give-us-your-passwords-if-you-want-the-job idea...
or better yet, your credit card numbers, security codes, and expiry dates...
you know... for "credit checks"
i really mean WTF
We have idiots in local government. I live in the United States and I can confirm we have idiots in National government. But unlike Iran, at least our election process is somewhat transparent.
If you think this story is crazy enough, people you didn't read the document far enough. They want you to also waive the State Consititution's protections!
In accordance with Montana Constitution, [...], I understand I have the right to review information obtained through the reference check process; however, by signing below, I realize the City of Bozeman will NOT release the information provided to them to any person, including myself.
Is is possible to sign away your constitutionally protected rights?
If you want me to trust you with all that personal information, then I think you need to ALSO provide that information about yourself to me. I think they will find the obvious stupidity in their own reactions.
Priceless typo on their page "Employment Process Policy" http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/humanResource/processPolicy.aspx, "Alien Registration Receipt Card (Greed Card)"
I've just contacted the Montana ACLU Here
The article links to a video interview with Greg Sullivan Bozeman City Attorney here (right side of page), who defends the policy.
His Contact info:
City Attorney Greg Sullivan gsullivan@bozeman.net 406-582-2309
What I just emailed off to Mr. Sullivan
Greg Sullivan
Your city's requirement for job applicants to provide a list of all personal internet memberships, logins, and passwords has recently come to my attention. I have just requested that the Montana ACLU investigate this policy as it seems a severe invasion of privacy. I have always appreciated the state of Montana's noble defense of the Constitution, exemplified with recent decisions by the state to support 2nd amendment rights. Your city's applicant policy is the exact opposite of what I'd expect from the state of Montana, and I would urge you to seriously reconsider this requirement.
If you were an employee of BFE, whatever, and you were observed drunkenly yelling "f#@* the mayor/equivalent" in a bar and got fired by him, would you say your freedom of speech was curtailed? I would suggest that a lot of people would make that a 1st Amendment issue. How is the 'net any different?
Anyhow, I would say that asking for public profile names would make some sense in a way...
Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
hell no
You could use some kind of password management system that changes all your passwords automatically every hour or so. The honest answer would then be that you just don't know your passwords as your computer manages them for you, and even if you did know they would be obsolete in an hour.
Of course your banking site might think something is up and disable your account if you're constantly changing your password like that...
I realize that it's pretty stupid that they would even ask such a thing, but it's also pretty stupid that they are assuming that everyone uses the internet in such a way that the request isn't simply a non-sequitur. And it's not like there aren't plenty of people out there who still aren't even on the internet...
You'll get a total of two types, liars who give you nothing or fakes, or idiots you actually give you this info.
So which type are you? Wait, don't tell me...
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
I'm not sure which you're confused on though.
Whoever the city official is that decided they have the right to know personal passwords... for anything is a complete... fucking idiot.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
While I understand the uproar about asking for passwords, even asking for usernames and websites is an huge invasion of privacy that shouldn't be tolerated. It's none of their damn business. The only exception to this is if you own business that would constitute a conflict of interest with your job, and that relates to the business whether it has a website or not.
Just write that down in response to request for passwords to your accounts on the "internet"
Doesn't this violate the Bill of Rights? Particularly the thing about 'privacy'?
Has the old saint in his forest not yet heard of it? That God is dead?
City in Montana. Certainly an oxymoron, right?
28,000 souls makes a city? I'd have thought it would take at least 50k.
Hard to educate your users about phishing when your EMPLOYER is asking you for your login and password to personal sites.
Here are the contact info of the WHOLE City.... ;)
Mayor Kaaren Jacobson
587-5968
kjacobson@bozeman.net
Deputy Mayor/Commissioner Jeff Krauss
582-2341
jkrauss@bozeman.net
Commissioner Jeff Rupp
586-1380
jrupp@bozeman.net
Commissioner Sean Becker
581-7571
sbecker@bozeman.net
Commissioner Eric Bryson
582-2347
ebryson@bozeman.net
P.O. Box 1230
121 North Rouse
Bozeman, MT 59771
Fax: 582-2323
City Manager - Chris Kukulski
ckukulski@bozeman.net
(406)582-2306
Assistant City Manager - Chuck Winn
cwinn@bozeman.net
(406)582-2307
Assistant to City Manager - Brit Fontenot
bfontenot@bozeman.net
(406)582-2258
Executive Assistant - Karen Semerau
ksemerau@bozeman.net
(406)582-2306
Considering that Montana is ground zero for right wing militia types (as well as pygmy pony & dental floss farmers). I think a lot of folks need to screw their heads back on, wake up & realize that it's the right-wing & not the left that poses the greatest threat to their privacy. Somebody up-thread asked if this was China. Nope, but it sure looks like Munich circa 1931. I'll betcha a dime to a doughnut that's a Republican city administration.
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
Montana is the state where the Freemen built a compound and refused to pay taxes. It's also one of the very, very few states that absolutely, utterly refused to get onboard with the Federal RealID program. I also grew up in the northwest corner of the state, a fourth-generation Montanan. So I can't believe a real Montanan came up with this stupid idea. Has to be a transplant.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
There is no debate on the fact that this is an invasion of privacy. It seems to be a sort of test to keep tech savvy people (would that be everyone?) out of the hiring process. I am shocked at this. Here is an interesting note, the US constitution aside from the 9th amendment does not guarantee the right to privacy. The right to privacy is enforced by the interpretation of the First, Third and Fifth amendments and of the Ninth amendment itself. The Fourth Amendment contains an explicit interpretation of the right to privacy specific to computers. They are still open to interpretation. So the issue is just not about private passwords here, there's a lot more being brought up. In India, Article 21 of the Indian Constitution expressly guarantees the Right to Privacy. There is some confusion and no explicit mention in the constitution of Britain either. From the little reading I have done, the right to privacy (and therefore keeping my own passwords from the state) has been created through addendum and interpretation of prior articles of constitution rather than a specific article or amendment mentioned in the constitution. ---- IANAL
No Greater Friend, No Greater Enemy! (Lucius Cornelius Sulla)
Don't get your panties in a twist, that information is already available for a couple of dollars online to anyone.
No, the next logical step is to ask for all your email account and password account information. It's pretty obvious they're asking for passwords because you've had the gall to make your facebook page private, and you've had the gall to communicate with your family and friends privately. And private communications between individuals, that sounds like some kind of communist idea! I certainly don't think the people of Montana are ready for this kind of responsibility. Think of the resulting anarchy that will almost certainly ensue. Think of the children for Christ's sake!
Also, the people who give you their password, at least you know they're going to be loyal to you. It's an ultimate act of surrender. It's just like the resignation letters Sarah Palin asked city employees to sign as a form of loyalty test. She only tried firing the people who wouldn't sign it, the people who did sign -- they had nothing to worry about.
I would not like to work in security for them. I can't even begin to imagine what kind of suckers would work at a place like that.
It's about time to found/join an official religion that forbids to disclose any personal information because this would ruin my karma. Nobody could turn my application down for religious believes...
So I read the application form...I couldn't believe my eyes...well, actually, I believed my eyes, but, let's get back to my point. It's quite unreal what the city demands. Here's an excerpt:
I release the City of Bozeman, Montana and/or its agents and any person or entity, which provides information pursuant to this authorization, from any and all liabilities, claims or law suits in regards to the information obtained from any and all of the above referenced sources used.
So...applicants have to hand over their personal life on a platter, unfettered access, to some unknown HUMAN, whom has the ability to actually be imperfect, and the city has absolutely no liability. So, this means that if anyone were to trash an applicant's life, the city couldn't be held responsible. Yeah, ok. That's completely fair. Oh, and how secure are these files? Are the kept in paper format only? In a filing cabinet, is it locked? Is the room locked? How easily could someone else view this information. And no, just because the door is locked at night when no one else is around isn't good enough. I'd expect Pentagon-like security...does anyone really think this would be the case? Nonsense at its finest.
I hereby expressly authorize release of any and all information which you, as a previous employer or employment reference, may have concerning me, including information of a confidential or privileged nature. I hereby release any organization, company, institution or person for which I have been employed furnishing the information requested.
Again with the carte blanche. What if some of this information included attorney-client?
This all is just a matter of the city big-wigs feeling entitled to their entitlement...and that entitlement is your privacy, which belongs to YOU and no one else. Don't give it to them. If everyone that applied didn't give them the info they requested, then they'd have to accept it. If they need someone to perform a job, they have to hire someone...and if no one submits to their ridiculous attempts at skirting around privacy laws, they will be put back in their place.
Some guy once said "United we stand, divided we fall".
unlocked case at conference can have parts go walking away so maybe some needed to be there so that did not happen.
Hopefully their data retention rules for job applicantions is to destroy immediately; my banking is done via a website on which I hold an account to which I have a password. Suddenly the most powerful person in Bozeman is the HR director for the city.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
Ok...So, lets pretend I am currently constructing an entirely creative re-creation of myself on social networking sites, from the e-mail up. I am not using my real name in any way, nor am I using anything that directly links me by any official identification. I am phrasing everything in such a way that the nickname I use sounds like it is from me, but ambiguous enough to provide some plausible deniability.
Would I be breaking any laws if I provided these addresses/passwords to a potential (and eventual) employer? Would I simply be subject to a brisk firing, or would laws be broken and penalties possibly applied?
It seems to me that this rediculous behavior, on the part of these City Stooges, could simply be countered by everyone using social networking sites to glorify themselves. Eventually employers would realize this was happening and no longer bother to check them.
Or, alternatively, not create the accounts in the first place...or not apply for jobs in Bozeman, Montana.
Good luck with that, Cowboys.
It's a good ideas to weed out potential douche bags with less than a shake of common sense not to plaster their beer drinking photos all over public internet mediums
You got something against beer?
Free Martian Whores!
It might be a good policy for a security company when interviewing potential employees; any that give up passwords (that work) would be immediately disqualified.
No, no, you grouped the expression wrong.
You'll get a total of two types[:] (liars who give you (nothing or fakes)), or (idiots who actually give you this info).
"nothing or fakes" as in, they're either lying and saying they have no online accounts, or they're lying by giving fake account information.
Sometimes I think it would be easier if everyone were required to use parenthesis(es?) to group things when they talk. Or maybe we could just get everyone to stop spelling "you" as just a u? I'm going to go cry in a corner now...
Aside from all the other incredible cluelessness this is screaming, what if I don't have a Facebook account? Or an account for MySpace or some other site where your login could be an arbitrary username? How do they distinguish that from me refraining to give the account information and just lying that I don't have an account?
It's different.
This is quite different than being mugged and getting nothing in return. If you don't like the bargian, you have options.
No, It is easy to blame them, though useless.
There in deep dodo. Requiring anything that might disclose that applicants age, race or other protected and prohibited information is a violation of federal law. (its illegal to ask for a drivers license until after someone's been hired) What they are doing is absolutely illegal and should result in a large fine to the federal Gov and a nice class action settlement that will probably bankrupt the town. Its also illegal to do background checks on applicants for the same reason (once again you can't do it till there hired)
Site 1: http://www.suck.com/
Site 2: http://www.my.com/
Site 3: http://www.wang.com/
This is my sig.
Username: fuckyou
Password: andthehorseyourodeinon
"Are you on some kind of medication?"
"No"
"Well, you should be."
--Bean
How could they prove it was falsified, though? If there's even a chance a password of mine is compromised, I change it immediately along with any other services I use the same password for. There's no proving that I didn't give them the right password at the time.
For goatse.
I printed out the application, policy and survey forms on the Bozeman City site. I saw NO requirement or reference to any such thing. The application form was dated April 2009
I can't understand why they would ask for this kind of information. And the fact that they ask is enough to tell me I porbably don't want to work for them (even assuming I lived in the area).
However, it can be put to possibly good use. Apply for any number of jobs with them, and provide a suitable number of account details, including everything they need to log in. Just slip in some pre-arranged details, so htey can log on to a web page displaying eg child porn. If the server is outside the USA the local, regional and federal authorities have very little power to do anything about it, until the next step: when your accomplice, who just happens to be the one running the server, lets you know that 'your' login credentials have been used, call the cops and let them know an employee of Bozeman is looking at child porn at his work computer.
When this has happened a few times, I hope the politicians (or other high-up) will remove this preposterous demand.
Where the men are men, the women are men, and the sheep apply for city jobs.
People sometimes use these services in much the same way as email or snail mail; for personal communications. Do they ask for email passwords? How about any and all correspondence sent or received through the post office?
Isn't this against the Fifth Amendment? In that you can't be compelled to incriminate yourself?
Darn, it isn't. These people are not being compelled to testify at a legal proceeding. Or are they?
The Montanasnewsstation.com needs a logon to post. Anybody got a throwaway. Bugmenot is blank. Irony, thy name is....
Notmysig
I made a contact in Bozeman, and she's forwarding my insights directly to the city attorney's office. My thoughts?
1) Requesting the logon IDs and passwords is likely asking them to violate the ToS or EULA of the site or service. Most sites have restrictions against sharing logon information. Therefore, they're basically asking potential employees to breach a contract.
2) You would never want to hire someone who would hand over user IDs and passwords to a third party, otherwise you'll have employees who will gladly turn over city/employee logon information to every social engineer out there.
Honestly, I was surprised when I got a reply back indicating she would forward the information on. She was unaware of the new policy, and was thankful that I brought it to her attention.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
the bribes are so much less expensive.
So, did you give your FaceSpace/MyTweet/BlogTube password when you applied?
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
common guys, they ask for the "member log-in" and password to member only websites you'd have owned, :D
not YOUR password to such sites.
They only want free pr0n passes, tis all
I did a story on this as well. http://www.newwest.net/city/article/city_of_bozeman_demands_passwords_from_job_applicants/C396/L396/
I'd use all three lines to right down my waist size, inseam, how long my penis is, that i'm not circumsized, my religon, what type of food i like, how often I date, number of serious relationships, etc, and if they confront me about providing the wrong info, hey, invasion is invasion.
An I.T. motto in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing...
While this is a bit strange that it is to to be self reported (but they can only on check what you tell them - for the most part). It is searching you via self-reported background information. They have every right to check what you are into in order for you to get the job.
For now I am ignoring the whole password part, that is crazy talk. And there is no way a court rule in favor of making you hand over your password as part of getting a job.
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
seems to me this would open the hiring organization up to litigation. assume a candidate is an outspoken (online) regarding gay rights or other protected speech. assuming the candidate is perfectly qualified but didn't get the job, couldn't they sue for discrimination? seems the emplo
What's this you wrote? I'll quote it for you
Are you mad? In this world, there is a price on all property pleaded into perview that distinguishes between forced sale (theft) and forced compensation (eminent domain). And here you write that the fear of a dis-armed neighbor's stupidity to invite such virulent actions of creatures onto himself because he thought a COP on the phone is better than a gun in his/her hand?
And you would rather have "police" be removed from their "positions of watch" to become my executive knights to deter whomever I dislose as trespass after the fact perhaps 15 to 50 minutes later of such life-threatening matters? If I defend myself or secure my retinue with deadly force, it's the courts that throw me in jail and the assailant into a warded hospital to sentence me for deterring the pains of the assailants psychological poverty?
Don't even touch my door-knob, you hip-hop and rap-teaching 'tard!
Get off my lawn, and this time go through the front gate on your way out rather than as hopping the fence on your way in!
You make this all sound as though it's the un-hired police sending all their felon co-workers out into secure neighborhoods just to spread their "see I told you so" attitude that absence of their police-abilities means expansion of criminal behavior.
I don't use passwords.
My accounts are locked via PKI and NO you cannot have my private cert because they protect data that isn't mine to share.
And pay your own hospital bills incurred in your struggle against violent defences. Who modded that up, without any grant of charter in their hand?
Is this a joke? Why is it that Police have no liability to perform the functions even if subscribed proper for their services? Do I have to spell it out for you in case-law? Your mind is baked as much as mine is, the difference is that I still have my sense of smell that wakes me from that stupor:
Do I behave you creatures daily by posting the same over-used over-analysed court cases to prove you are a conquered effeminate slave and generaly bad neighbor? Your inability to weild a gun proves that your house is a gateway for criminals to enter and spill into my front lawn when they're done assaulting your disarmed a$$. Can you name one U.S. city with the strictest gun laws and the lowest gun-related crime effected by a fear of such "police" without sacrificing their market and fleecing lawful trade and market by taxation?
This is as bad as applications requiring that you agree to open-ended background checks. As in, "FOREVER". (walk away)
Let me ask one question. Are you a Do-It-Yourself kind of guy, or do you call a bunch of mercenaries (motivated only by price) to rely on protecting your lifeblood and effects? The choices you've made are proof of your unreliabilty in coming to the aid of your neighbors. You think you're so much more royalty to not get involved, that you send your hired-hands to do a job without passion of death. Is life worth living when you've unconditionally resigned from your political abilities to substitute police in your place, that represent you although are not and behave completely different than you?
Duke Nukem would kick your ass, Forever.
They have an equally idiotic internet usage policy... http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/humanResource/employment policy/Admin__Order_IT_Use_Policy_6_2007.pdf
If you can't remember the dispute between RMS's GPL vs general public, then I quote a thousand words inherint in this sanitary worksafe picture of RMS going down on ESR ( http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5233c6cac0.jpg ).
That image is worksafe. Trust me. It's just political.
Your friend,
Anonymous Coward.
Why else would Greg Sullivan,who is a member of FaceBook and Linkedin, want your account login and passwords?
At the University I work at, we have to keep reminding people to *NOT* give out their username and password, because there is no valid reason for anyone but them to know it .
Of course, Mr. Sullivan has only been a lawyer for four years, so his lack of experience is showing.
the hovercraft license scene from "The Butterfly Kid".
Holy smokes, there's an obscure reference! Especially these days. The second book in the series was written by Michael Kurland, who was married to my aunt at one time, but the third book was written by T.A. Waters who has the same last name as me, but was absolutely no relation. Boy we managed to confuse some people with that! :)
Having employed people with a disposition to hand out logins and passwords, a visitor requested the login and password from the employees and now has full control of the City computers.
When contacted to comment, the mayor provided his login and password and suggested we read 'c:\comment.doc'.
only three lines? My info takes 5+ pages just for the sites and user names (or one search URL) not including the passwords (some of them I do not know or want to [requires me to only use MY Linux laptop])
What I don't get is how this slipped past their attorney without him realizing it actually constitutes a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
Follow along with me carefully here...
The TOS of most of these sites only allows the individual to use their account for their own uses, and generally explicitly forbids sharing the account with anyone for any reason (barring the strange convolutions of minor-guardian relationships). Doesn't matter what Bozeman puts on the form--it doesn't and can't change the existing agreement between the user and the social networking site.
Violating the TOS basically invalidates the account, meaning it's very much not okay for someone other than the actual account owner to use it.
That's absolutely using a set of authentication credentials to exceed ones access knowingly, because it doesn't matter *what* the girl from HR was doing in that Facebook account--it's not their account, the owner can't legally give it to them, and Facebook expressly prohibits anyone other than the account owner from using it. This is rather explicitly illegal and has been for oh, about twenty years now.
You'll get a total of two types, liars who give you nothing or fakes, or idiots you actually give you this info.
hang on. I now see the logic in this.
this is for GOVERNMENT work. I think you just described the ideal government civil-service worker!
maybe there's more thought to this than it appears.
Oh hi. I'm a rocket scientist. Welcome to NASA, your friendly national air and space administration, run by civil servants.
Hmm... that explains why the mars lander crashed
I am not stubborn. I am right!
How many slashdotters bothered to register, so that they could leave comments? Read my comment, just completed minutes ago: http://montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=10551414
I suggest that you be mildly abusive toward Herr Sullivan's asinity, but don't go overboard, or comments will just be edited out. Have fun, boys and girls! BTW, I'm Paul, and my comment starts with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics phrase.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
That is just plain moronic. You do NOT ask for people's passwords ever. That's bloody ridiculous. You'll get a total of two types, liars who give you nothing or fakes, or idiots you actually give you this info.
*****
Perhaps this is exactly what they want. An instant way to cull out applicants of higher than DMV worker IQ. Just perfect for obtaining drones who follow directions.
This will *never* pass muster, once the first person challenges it in Federal court. The government is blatantly chilling applicants' First Amendment rights ("Freedom to assemble." The fact that it is electronic is of no consequence in that it infringes on the freedom of association.) Next: What is your political affiliation? What are your particular religious beliefs? Oh wait -- that's exactly what this question is plausibly asking!
Repeat after me: The States can grant greater rights than the US Constitution, but they can in not abridge the rights therein.
Sirs,
Just testing Mark Seymour Blake's Slashdot user account to see if there has been any anti-social activity. Mr. Blake has just applied for the position of Signage Evaluation Engineer at $18,700 annually. We have seen many applications from left wing fanatics and Obama supporters for this position.
What is Slashdot anyway?
When the given user info was not accepted for Mr. Blake, the system called me an Anonymous Coward. Trying to rectify the situation by providing as much information as possible.
Kind Regards,
Attorney Greg Sullivan
City of Bozeman, MT
For those who have not been to Montana, the BoZone is a bit of Seattle surrounded by Georgia, politically. Most folks who move out there full time do so out of love for the beauty of the area. I've a relative out there so have done some time there. Ski Bridger Bowl ! There are about two dozen overqualified people for each paying job. Your 7-11 clerk not only speaks english but has a PhD in English. It is probably the most competitive area for a job...and when you get one, you also get "Bozeman salary shock" where you make what in any city would qualify you for Food Stamps and Medicaid. I'm not at all surprised that in such an "employer's market" that someone would be this intrusive-Still, I love Bozeman, and if I somehow ever got a job with a pension (my pension is dying at my desk), I'd move out there. Did I say Ski Bridger Bowl ? I'd say Ski Discovery but I don't want anyone else to find it. (anaconda, MT)
I'm surprised nobody's sued them yet. If they want to check your background, they don't need your passwords to do that. With the exception of Yahoo!, most of the other companies work pretty well with law officials. Either way, I would not ever apply for a job with them.
this is what that kind of people initiating such bullshit should immediately be receiving. these people are running PUBLIC service, yet, totally inaffluent with what they are going to run. im sure that there are also services that this city runs over internet too. unbelievable. asking PASSWORDS. maybe even public service ban is too small a response.
Read radical news here
I think you mean, 'gargle' bukkake.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
So, they would fire me for NOT telling them about my account with the divorce lawyer, giving them the login and password? That would be fun, too bad I owe the lawyer everything the ex didn't take and can't afford to sue the bastards!
There's a follow-up story here which mentions, among other things, that this practice is a TOS violation for many web sites. However, nobody seems clued in yet that there may be other legal issues, like violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
This smells very much like a subject for DEFCON... How quickly can you hack the database and gather all the userid's and passwords from an unencrypted database...
Y'know, people don't have to be smart to have integrity. And similarly, a lot of smart people have no scruples whatsoever. One has nothing to do with the other.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
Does the form say anything about not changing your password? I suppose one could write down their passwords, and then since those accounts were compromised, immediately change the password when you got home. They can't possibly make you sign something forbidding you from changing your password.... or can they?
Maybe anyone dumb enough to furnish that kind of information will not be hired? And have their identity stolen as they deserve, no doubt? To me that sounds like a cunning plan to hire smart people, those who leave that section blank.
--Udo.
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Their HR department computers (or even all their computers as a means to get through to the HR department) have suddenly become the interest of thousands of hackers world wide.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
In the private sector you call them "consultants" and pay them 8x what a civil servant makes.
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
Damn... Just when it looked like Billings was going to get to keep it's "Montana's Litigation Magnet" tiara for another year... Bozeman just has to try to out do us...
-J
http://policepay.blogspot.com/2009/01/billings-mt-police-officers-sue-city.html
http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2008/07/17/news/local/21-feuerstein.txt
How can anyone even consider asking for, let alone releasing private account credentials? I can't even conceive filling this out and have *never* heard of this being asked of anyone. Why don't they ask for transcripts of every rant you've had in a bar, every letter to the editor you've written, all you private correspondence, etc...... Did anyone watch the interview with the clueless attorney and off camera HR person. I'm just aghast at the ignorance and presumption. I'm pretty much at a loss for any further words. Sad how far the land of individual freedom and rights has sunk. :(
FYI: Facebook is just as bad in my books as they encourage users to input their email account credentials to help them add friends to their facebook accounts. Very bad form IMO.
The city of Bozeman wants a 4-digit Slashdot UID, and they want it NOW â"Âeven if they have to steal it from a job applicant.
1. Give out the passwords 2. Wait until they access your account. 3. ??? 4. Profit!!
So everyone should email them and let them know how asking for account credentials is incredibly ignorant and probably illegal. Try the two HR people, http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/humanResource/contacts.aspx and lawyers http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/legal/Default.aspx . Perhaps also cc the news site that is covering this: http://montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=1740803&nav=menu227_1_3_7 . They either need to be educated or shamed into realizing that this is way out of line.
I wonder why the city of Bozeman would want to take on the legal liability of protecting this personal information. Would it be unreasonable that certain people with access to this information could use it against someone by logging into the applicant's account and cause harm?
The only explanation for this is that they must have been drinking heavily.
At every union job I have had, the employer can require you to perform just about any task, but you can only be evaluated based on your performance of the tasks on your job description. This actually works quite well to protect employees (otherwise a manager who just plain didn't like you could get you fired by requiring you to do a job completely outside your field of expertise, then giving you an unsatisfactory evaluation when you screw it up) while allowing them to "git-r-done" during extraordinary situations.
If the "extraordinary situation" becomes permanent, the job description can be amended with the new duties if the management, employee, and union all agree, and this may entail the company sending the employee for some training, which is a good idea from everyone's perspective.
Journey onward.
Now fucking way this is legal. We have a right to freely assemble in this country, and that would include online communications. Not to mention that listing what websites you participate in the forums of could reveal information that the government is not allowed to collect on people in determining whether they should be hired for a certain job. For Example, I could be part of a gay-Jewish support group for example An actual gay Jewsish support group and that would be data that the state is not allowed to collect in determining who gets hired.
Be clear that I think property taxes are the worst taxes of all and should be banned, and that eminent domain should not be allowed. But those are completely beside the point and outside the argument, which is the value of governmnent. Doing away with the police and sitting in your house 24/7 with an AK in your lap is not the society I would want to live in. I'm all in favor of your sitting in your house, fearful of thieves, unable to leave, but I'd rather have some joy in my life.
Just because your government is bad doesn't mean anarchy is good, it means you need a better government.
Free Martian Whores!
So not only does it request info the government is supposed to be barred from using to make hiring decisions, it also only has space for two websites. Cause you know most tech savy people have limited their responses to just the two websites and the fuck-tarded thing about this is that they actually list five different example websites!
Put down 4chan.org, and tell them your username is "anonymous". ;)
~
"I don't have internet and email... what is this 'youtu-..." thing?"
C'mon, grow some brains...
Here be signatures
These aren't cherry-picked. It's always like that. Who wouldn't want to work there?
http://bozemandailychronicle.com/police_reports/
And smart ones who point out the issue...
Cheers!
I've done it before and I'll do it again. NYFB is a perfectly acceptable response on a job application.
Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
I tried to create an account but never got my password, so I'm an anonymous coward right now. Sorry.
Anyway, I've lived in Bozeman for a little over 2 years now (I moved here from Boston), and weird employment rules seem to be a trend. I know Montanans don't like 'outsiders' moving here and are usually pretty offended when people compare how things are done here to how things are done in the rest of the civilized world, but I think that they would do well to take a few pages from the employment rulebook laid out by, say, the federal government. I've heard a number of horror stories about employers here in Bozeman and across the state - people not getting paid because OT has to be authorized by management (as if the employee manual trumps the law books), discriminitory practices that violate everything that the EEOC tries to enforce, people being fired or laid off based on the political bumper stickers on their cars, and the list goes on. One of the failures of the state labor board, it seems, is that nobody can file a grievance against an employer unless they are currently employed by that employer. The employer can therefore simply terminate employment in order to maintain a clean record with the labor department, and the employee is SOL. Learning that the City of Bozeman requests (though, they say, does not REQUIRE) login info for social networking sites is entirely appalling, but, after hearing these stories for the past 2 years, it is sadly not very surprising.
Bozeman is having a City Commission Meeting Monday, June 22nd. We need to get as many people writing emails to them as possible to let them know this is unacceptable and ask them to reverse their policy. I've contacted the City Clerk's office and have learned that EVERY email that we send with the words "PUBLIC COMMENT" in the subject will be printed and a copy given to each Commissioner and the Mayor. How many REAMS of paper can we get stacked on their desks in time for the City Commission Meeting? I've sent mine! The address, names, and a sample letter are available here: http://bit.ly/ZBCxa
s/people's passwords/girls phone numbers/; 'two types' applies in all aspects of life :P
One would hope it would be a violation of their internal security policy.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They're not asking for passwords anymore. As of an hour and 43 minutes ago, anyway. http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2009/06/19/breaking_news/70cityletter.txt
As unfortunate as it is for Bozeman, there is always a silver lining. Remember, sometimes it takes unfortunate circumstances like this to occur on a local level before such issues are addressed nationally. You could be living on the edge of history in the making! I could see something like "The people of Bozeman, Montana have stood up against unfair employment practices and forced the issue with Congress to pass legislation protecting the privacy of employees nationwide."
(I know there are already certain privacy laws in play, but I'm not so sure it covers incidentals like social networking sites...)
I'd encourage you and all Slashdotters living in the US to write your representatives because it's not much of a stretch to imagine this (or something similar) happening elsewhere in the country!
He who has no
Insightful? Did you bother to read the article?
Maybe it's a stretch, but it seems to me that this is Montana State law and might very well be applicable to this case!
He who has no
The person making the request worked for the company that was hosting the conference and even brought a lock to lock the machine during that period. And there were thirty or so employees of the company that was hosting the conference in the room at the time. And the equipment, AFAIK, was owned by the company hosting the conference....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.