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Apple Sets Oct. 24th Release For Mac OS X 10.3
dricci writes "Yahoo! has posted a press release from Apple, regarding the release date of the next major Mac OS X update, 10.3 ('Panther'). The update will be available 8:00 p.m. on October 24th at Apple Retail Stores and Authorized Resellers for $129.00 US (Family Pack for up to 5 users will be $199). Pretty much the same pricing structure they had for Jaguar. It looks like 'old world' Beige G3 support has been discontinued -- the update requires a Mac with built in USB."
paying for incremental updates is just crazy. if i had to pay for every service pack for windows, i'd be one broke motherfucker
That said, 10.3 is the release of Panther you have been waiting for. Dramatic increases in speed and launch times - and I just have an older prelease from WWDC.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Ordered it this morning... I'm so psyched!
Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait.
I've just been for a glorious dump.
Thankyou.
MacOS is such a great OS. I would have to say it is because its built off FreeBSD technology.
However, the reason I dont have a Mac yet is because I like oranges, not apples.
sometimes my balls freeze in the winter.
I think MacOS needs to concentrate on building more applications and games. Gamers use Windows still because thats where the games are.
You do pay for ever Windows service pack, only they come every 3 years and cost twice as much.
AC comments get piped to
Apple is running a very cool countdown clock on their main page here.
Flash aside, this is one important update for Mac users and shows how much code optimization can get you in terms of performance. This release runs impressively fast on current hardware, but more importantly for the installed user base, it gives new life to older machines with good performance on machines going back several years.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
This is no mere update, it's a complete reassessment of how, where, and what color life and the universe should be.
does it run on Windows XP?
What are you talking about? If I recall:
10.2.1
10.2.3
10.2.4
10.2.6
10.2.8
Were all free, not to mention all the app and security fixes. Most of those updates weren't REQUIRED like the "free Windows updates" AND each time you updated you had to validate your Windows system under XP.
This is the release of X that everyone should want. faster, more stable on every machine I've tested it on.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Jaguar's price was "worth it" because of the speed increases. This time around I'm satisfied that there's anough new functionality that I'll be putting down the cash.
What a great birthday present for me!
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
Some of us bought "Technology Assurance" this year, so upgrades are already paid for...
For indivduals, $130 ain't squat.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
...if the feature set is worth the upgrade price for me. expose looks cool, and fast user switching would be nice, but neither are must haves in my opinion. the only thing i'd like is a more responsive finder, you know... snappier. haha. guess i'll just have to wait and get the reviews from people with older hardware like me.
I for one am looking forward to Panther's release (as well as iTunes for PC) and I know that someone's going to cry about "The Apple Tax". Apple NEEDS your money, they can't just throw out free software forever, you know. I don't know if there is going to be a free upgrade voucher for units bought in the past month or two though. If I recall correctly, they did have a voucher for people who purchased a unit with 10.1 within a couple months of 10.2's release.
Jeff
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
Frankly, I'm tired of Steve Jobs claiming he has a "revolutionary" new upgrade for my Macintosh every year. I don't think that this is worth $129.00.
Expose? Boring.
iChat AV? Hi, NetMeeting called. It wants its hype back.
Brushed metal Finder? Ugh.
"Favorites panel"? It's been an irritating part of Windows since 2000. I don't want it.
Instead, I implore all freedom-conscious netizens out there to send me, Seth Finklestein a copy of Mac OS X 10.3. Or, send a serial number so that I may liberate it off of KaZaA Plus.
I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
That's OK - the six guys to whom that would actually apply are still waiting for their copies of 10.2 to boot up.
This version has special built-in protections to keep it from biting you in the neck while you're taunting it in front of your friends. And since its ferocity has been turned down, I suppose I can also expect that I'll need to pet it every once in a while.
Please tell me they dumped am-utils and went to an autofs code base to get rid of the !@#$ symbolic linking in the auto-mounting, and dumped the proprietary auto.master format.
Please?
...does it run on Linux?
They got more info on the Developer Tools too right here It uses GCC 3.3 now, and from the looks of it, Xcode is gonna rock! Oh, and if you'll look at the Darwin link, you'll notice that the Terminal in the image uses bash instead of tcsh. Darn, and I was just getting used to the C Shell too.=) Oh well then...
WTF?
Is this a sucessful business model? Put out a new OS every year? Sorry, I should say an "upgrade" every year, and charge users $129 every time? Yes, I know that Apple offers updates periodically throughout the year as errors pop-up, and does not charge for them. Though, as costly as the hardware to run it is, somehow I don't know that this works. Perhaps this explains why Apple is relagated to a somewhat niche market. (Read: Education (though less now than before), Graphics Design, Desktop Publishing, some Web Design, and some Music. (Sorry if I missed any.)) This may also be why businesses are willing to put up with Microsoft's flaws, and are now looking to Open Source. (No not OS X!, OS X is only slightly open source. But that's an argument for another time and another post.)
I'm of a mind to give them a piece of my mind, but I seem to have lost my mind.
Apple also announced releasing new versions of iCal and iSync today: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/oct/08ical_is ync.html
"iSync 1.2.1 adds complete calendar synchronization support for Symbian-based smartphones such as the Nokia 3650 and 7650, and the Sony Ericsson P800."
Expose is so amazing, expect Microsoft to "borrow" it in their next OS release.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
Panther is only $69 if you qualify!
Happiness is like peeing yourself. Everybody can see it but only you can feel its warmth.
and certain europeans would stab their allies in the back
Everyone loves to bash the rumor sites when they get something wrong... but here we are... rumor sites were spot on with this... so credit where credit is due:
Panther is GM
October 24th Release for Panther
Oct 8th official announcement
S+H Upgrade price for G5 owners
Will we be able to use the upgrade coupon that comes in the box with new systems or will they refuse them, like they have in the past. I believe we are entitled to up to 3 upgrades from the purchase of the system.
I got my dual G5 on the 7th of september. I have partitioned it and have installed both Jaguar (10.2.7 G5) and Panther 7B74 on it (for those asking, I was at the developer conference, hence my seedings of Panther).
Using Code Warrior to build 730 megs worth of sources (no, really), the complete build cycle (after a total cleanup of objects) took 9 minutes on Panther, and 13 minutes in Jaguar.
And that's with a tool that's not multi-threaded. Kudos Apple.
(Oh, and BTW, this same source code set takes roughly 45 minutes on a dual G4 450!!)
Password: "Does your girlfriend eat apples whole, with cores?"
Reply: "Yes. And she has a pretty ponytail too."
The OS 'Up To Date' program applies to all Apple computer purchases post 8th October, allowing an upgrade to 10.3 for the reduced 'handling fee' of $19.99.
However, I can see there will be a lot of new 12", 15" and 17" 'Alu' Powerbook owners that will feel they have been shafted having bought the new revised machines at the start of October...
Seriously... Take a look!
The rendezvous enabled distributed building and predictive compiling look to be winners.
"Apple ][ forever" (Said so the Apple ][ sales could keep funding the Mac line)
"The Newton is a very important part of our product line." (Said march 3rd 1998. Newton canceled end of Feb.)
"Any Macintosh sold by Apple this year (1997) will run Rhapsody (now called Mac OS X)" (Tell that to a TAM owner)
Now the 'beige G3's' have recieved the shaft.
Buy from Apple - expect the short brown sticky end. It is the Apple way under Jobs.
How is that possible? I thought MacOS X was rock
stable!!! How the hell can some one with an uptime
of years find that the new version is more stable?
That sucks. I shelled out $3k for their latest revision of the 17" powerbook on the second day it was released (Sept 17), only to find that the features they have been touting for so long (X windows, native & fast PDF support, X code) are going to cost. Why only the top of the line desktops - why not my more expensive top of the line laptop? My machine is newer than many G5s (although maybe they were trying to satisfy customers with long preorder times).
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
I'm not trying to fuel any fire but I tend to agree with the principle of the original poster. Not that this release isn't worth paying for, just that if it is, why make it a point release?
From a marketing perspective it's much easier to sell something that not only is different but also looks different (i.e. the major version number)
I guess by looking at old Windows, 3.1 and 3.11 were different versions that were not just free upgrades AFAIK, but I never liked that naming scheme either. lol.
Uh-oh. Looks like the we'll soon have bad goatse-joke trolls in addition to the *BSD is dying and Soviet Russia trolls.
I for one am looking forward to Panther's release
I for one welcome our new Panther Overlords.
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
The ftp client built-in in the finder is still read-only.
Shame on you Apple...
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
Panther requires a minimum of 128MB of memory and is designed to run on the following Apple products with built-in USB support: iMac,(R) iBook(R), Power Macintosh(R) G3, Power Mac G4, Power Mac G4 Cube.
Thank god I didn't get a G5.
After waiting for about 2.5 months, my shiny 1.6GHz G5 system finally turned up...and 6 days later was back in its box, being returned to Apple Australia as it was highly unstable, crashing and freezing constantly. Since I've been quoted '2 to 3 weeks' (which in Apple speak means 4 to 6) as the lead time for a replacement G5 system to be built, I should be able to get Panther included for free as a nice little unintentional bonus from Apple.
Of course, I will have been waiting for so long by that stage that the 1.6GHz G5 will be on the verge of being discontinued...
I'm hoping that this release of OSX will perform sufficiently on my Apple Powerbook G4 Titanium 400.
All other releases have proven too sluggish.
Am I being too optimistic?
Does everything have to be more expensive with apple. What's with the ridiculously high price? It even beats certain Monopolistic prices.
Hell even IBM doesn't charge for point releases to AIX, an arguably superior *nix. I guess this is the price you pay to be 'Different'.
Blar.
Cretinous moderator.
Valid critisism is not trolling, no matter how much of a mac fan-boy you are!
Another thing worth mentioning is the fact that Apple rolls all the updates up to a given point into combo updaters, which have saved me a lot of time doing an install. I installed 10.2 right before 10.2.6 came out, and I had one 90 meg download instead of 5 40 meg ones. Hugely helpful.
You should use AdiumX on your Mac.
Mod me down for telling the truth. I've got the karma.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
My Pismo had dual bays...
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
I was hoping this announcement would take a bit longer - I was going to put my old Beige machine up on eBay next week. :)
Wasting your time since 1997.
FYI Pismo has two expansion bays also, as I type from my dual battery Pismo.
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
Don't lie to protect your interests now...
Blar.
> 10.3 is the release of Panther you have been waiting for.
I heard that during the Jaguar launch. I'm sure you'll be saying the same damn thing when 10.4 is launched. I'm sick of spending big money on Apple every year.
Quit Apple for Lintel at OS 9, never looked back!
Pics? Pics? I wanna see...!
Does anyone know what happened to this: Class Action lawsuit I have been unable to find any more info on this topic.
Parent may not have found the best way to say it, but s/he makes a valid point.
The lack of a long term upgrade path with Apple means that if you want to remail loyal to the brand you will HAVE TO buy a new Apple.
This is why my 6400/200 was the last new Apple machine I bought.
The Beige G3s were the last Apple machines that I would have considered buying. Since they are no longer supported I guess I won't be buying Apple, I have no interest in Apple's current hardware.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
But not dual storage bays, only dual battery bays. The wallstreet could fit a battery or a storage device in either bay, one a 5.25" or 3.5" the other a 3.5" (2.5") Zip, floppy, superdisk, HD
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
I received my new powermac G5 on October 1. I knew 10.3 was coming. I just had to have it for work and the inherent coolness. Now I have to pay an additional $130 (on top of the $3,000 I already paid) because I missed the cut off day by 7 days!
I love OS X, and the Apple hardware is nice, but, damn, Apple really hates their customers.
Apple needs money as much as any multi-million dollar corporation does, I guess. In order to be a mac lover, you have to be sadistic and enjoy the pain because Apple is NOT going to try to help you in any way. They will charge a premium for both hardware and software with little regard to customer loyalty.
I CAN'T wait for Cinelerra to come of age! For now, Final Cut Pro is the chain that binds me. Funny that I left Windows when I bought my powerbook because of OS X, but now I am just as eager to find another alternative to Apple.
I mean, $3,000 for a computer and 6 days later $129 for a tenth of a OS upgrade? This sounds like Microsoft territory to me.
Owner of a TiBook (45 days after I bought it Apple makes DVD/CD-RW standard), 20GB iPod (no on the fly playlists?!??! No upgrades to the latest firmware???) Final Cut 3 & 4 (NO complaints, an incredible value) and now a DP G5 with 10.2 and no upgrade...
But jesus brother paul and mary, this G5 is fast. Some video rendering that took 30 minutes to complete on the TiBook 667 took 3 minutes on the G5.
This has been your schizo post for the day, move along.
nope, I didnt think so.
the history of the world
If the update is as significant as Panter is to Jaguar I'm sure he will.
My sig for this Anonymous Coward posting:
Once an Apple hater... well... we always hated you.
Wow.. each time an OSS solution on my RH 9.0 box has a security hole or is updated, I don't have to pay for it either. What a deal!
No one is out there forcing an upgrade on anyone. It's your choice to install it or not.
As for Apple updates, we all see how well the 10.2.8 did for trust in Apple's ability to provide correct updates and take responsibility for problem the updates cause. Called Apple Care and ask why I lost half of my charge on my ibook battery after the 10.2.8 upgrades. Their solution was to check the forums and re-install the OS. Wow.. sounds like a Compaq solution to a problem.
Damn counter is eating up 100% of CPU in my Safari 1.1 (Panther 7B53).
Time to pay the OS TAX. You fools...
The difference here is that when Apple updates, the OS I M P R O V E S. That's what MS doesn't seem to get right. Take XP and turn on the "classic" theme and you're right back to 2000. Frankly, I'd rather pay $199 for a faster, more efficient OS, than $299 for a new color theme.
I dunno, I'm running Gentoo on my laptop and GCC 3.3 is still masked. Not that I don't trust 3.3, but when a major computer company touts a new version of software as "proven" I just kinda wonder. But I digress. Possibly this new speedup could be by Apple using GCC 3.3 with some more aggressive compiler flags. Red letter date. Apple learns about -O3 -mcpu=PPC750 -fomit-frame-pointer -(etc etc)
see post above - wallstreet had dual STORAGE bays, not just dual battery bays
So the Mac you bought a few years ago doesn't meet Panther's minimum requirements? The PC I bought a few years ago doesn't meet Windows XP's minimum requirements. Cry me a fucking river.
I will stipulate that Apple went ahead and violated a convention in computing for the sake of marketing; but people criticizing the $129 price in the context of the upgrade being a "point" release are way off the mark.
Panther is OS XII -- but I guess Apple wants to stick with the mindshare that the big "X" has created.
I stuck with 10.1 until only last month. Know what? When I finally installed Jaguar on my machine, I was kicking myself for waiting so long.
These are major upgrades.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
which is on par with Microsofts old release schedule regarding Win95a/b/c, 98/SE, ME
the history of the world
But my Beige G3 runs Jaguar just fine. There is most certainly OS X support for Beige G3's.
6 year old Macs are no longer supported under OS X. Big deal.
I was hoping to get one more release out of it though. Ah well, time to shop for a G4.
"You've got an invalid haircut" -Warren Zevon - Life'll Kill Ya
That's not entirely true XP with the classic theme still has Windows Media Player 8/9, Secure Audio Path, and Windows Product Activation :).
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
I'm running a 266Mhz G3 imac with 576 MB RAM, and it works like a charm with 10.2.x. It was [not surprisingly] unusable with the stock 64 megs, but the ram upgrade made everything happy. Even GUI performance isn't bad (with the notable exception of the "genie" effect) with this smokin' RAGE 8MB onboard video :)
Panther was widely touted as the 64-bit jump, and now, there is no mention of such support. Apple's page doesn't say it is for G5's, so how can those owners feel they are getting anything special?
"...and is designed to run on the following Apple products with built-in USB support: iMac, iBook, Power Macintosh G3, Power Mac G4, Power Mac G4 Cube."
10.2.8 is a tease...an expensive incremental tweak. It also sounds more like revenue for Apple, than for any groundbreaking usage users should be excited about, sorry.
Ellen Feiss doesn't like it
8P
"There are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." - Blair Houghton
10.x are service packs
Um, no they're not. They are more like Windows 95 to 98, or 2000 to XP.
Have you actually used those releases? I know the dot versioning is confusing, but you should think of them like OS X v1, OS X v2, etc.
The additions in functionality between versions of OS X are too great to be considered "service packs". Since "big bad evil MS" rarely includes appreciable new functionality in their service packs, it's more like mega-hotfixing on the MS side.
*everything* is Orwellian to cats.
No, you are a turd .... never install before you read. You had to download the update immediately, it was pulled in less than 24 hours. Had you read Mac websites, you would have seen problem reports pooping up all over.
... this is a nice new operating system with LOTS of improvements.
This is not just an upgrade
Stay informed
damn too much coffee this morning
the history of the world
I bought a new powerbook on Friday. Less than 3 weeks from the date I bought, they will be releasing Panther. So far, this is cool. But the fact that the up-to-date program doesn't cover it is not cool. That sucks.
/.ers is not the right approach). Squeaky wheel and all that....
It wouldn't burn so bad if they hadn't made a specific exception for machines that were shipping back in August. That's like a slap in the face.
I wonder who to complain to (clearly complaining to
Like it or not, the buying public is condition to think of minor version upgrades as an entitlement; whether it reflects truth or not, an increment of 10.x screams "minor upgrade."
the 10.2.x updates you describe are hotfixes, and the 10.x are service packs
That is a ridiculous analogy right there...
Microsoft doesn't usually introduce significant new features in a service pack (Fast User switching, updated Mail.app, Expose, revamped Finder, etc.). Usually, in fact, a service pack is simply a condensation of hotfixes. 10.x releases are much more akin to 95 -> 98 -> ME in terms of change, however, Apple typically includes a larger number of features in a given step than MSFT did from 95 -> ME. Microsoft DID charge for those upgrades BTW. In fact, for many, Microsoft actually charged for 98 twice, by charging for the 98 2nd Edition Upgrade as well (at a reduced price).
--fp
does anyone know what happened to pixlet?
I don't care about fast user switching and most of the other crap. What I want is fast, responsive interface. OS X looks fantastic, but scrolling is dog fucking slow on my flat panel imac w/ 1GB of ram. They have to do something about the responsiveness of the gui.
xcode looks sweet, but if they really need to upgrade the cocoa frameworks as well.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/
Information for people who want to update. G5 owners get a discount!
Shouldn't this be OS X.III ?
If they called this release OSX version 11 and people bought it and found, hey it's almost identical to what I already have, they'd be pissed.
Blar.
for the increasingly popular planet/population rescue initiative, version won.made.
lookout bullow. the daze of the phonIE payper liesense georgewellian fuddite southern baptist freemason corepirate nazi ?pr? ?firm? stock markup execrable, is WANing into coolapps/the abyss.
consult with/trust in YOUR creator... that's the spirit, moving you/US.
Please. This is just my-record-player-is-better-than-your-CD-player BS. I had a Lombard, and it was a piece of shit. In your hands it looked, felt, and sounded like a plastic toy. The CD drive door broke. The rubber feet fell off within a month. The case scratched -incredibly- easily and the letters on the keyboard wore off within 2 years. One screen clutch broke, the hard drive died inside of 3 years, the battery within 3 went to half-capacity, and Apple stopped selling new Lombard batteries shortly thereafter. The screen was horrible- in any kind of sunlight, for example, all you saw was green plastic w/ a hint of something in the way of a screen. Half the keyboard doesn't work anymore, the screen has a white line down one side- and to top it all off, the video cable to the screen is toasted; the display went from occasionally flipping out to requiring 2 minutes of adjusting the screen angle, to just not working period.
I now have a revision-1 17" powerbook. It's awesome. Fit+finish is excellent, and everything in the design screams attention-to-detail. The case appears to be very durable(I do have a few small scratches on the bottom however). The screen is terrific in strong light, even direct sunlight hitting it. Gigabit ethernet is fast as hell, airport reception is fantastic, better than my Orinocco Gold card, which was widely considered the standard. In almost every way, my 17" PB kicks the living shit out of your Wallstreet, including battery life...the one exception being weight(so get a 12 or 15"). So do yourself an enormous favor and start using a computer built this decade.
My problem is that Apple broke Bluetooth in a MAJOR way with 10.2.8, and with Panther right around the corner, it looks like it'll never get fixed. That's practically illegal- "we broke it, so just buy the update." Um, no- and as a result, I think I'll be downloading Panther, not buying it.
Please help metamoderate.
Dammit. Me too. Windows XP won't run on my IBM PC XT. What the hell? They're both 'X' something, right?
This is why my 6400/200 was the last new Apple machine I bought.
I'm sorry to hear that... the PPC 603 in the 6400 **sucked** compared to the 604 in most of their other desktops.
The Beige G3s were the last Apple machines that I would have considered buying. Since they are no longer supported I guess I won't be buying Apple
Huh?? Were you fond of the 66 MHz bus and onboard 10 MB/sec SCSI? Or was it the EIDE that you liked?
The Blue&White G3 had just as much expansion as the Beige G3 (3 PCI & 1 66 MHz PCI for gfx versus 3 PCI & 1 "personality slot" in the beige). One less drive bay, though, but the machine came with onboard USB and Firewire. Even had a legacy ADB port to help you transition over and keep your favorite keys/mouse. The stock Rage128 blew the beige's graphics out of the water with about 8x the fillrate.
The G4s were even better. And... there are gobs of aftermarket CPU upgrades for the B&W G3, just as there are for the beige.
I would agree that Apple is lacking a good entry-level desktop machine right now ($3K for a monster dual that can support 8-16 GB RAM is a good price, as are most of the PowerBooks... but there is no ideal $1K single processor desktop [the single proc G5s are really expensive in terms of bang for the buck]).
Apple's timing for these upgrades is what makes me chuckle. I know that it's not intentional so I'm not complaining. But I just renewed my .Mac at $99 (no complaints, it's well worth it. I've gotten great deals over the year from them: free software, integrated features, and a permanent email address). And now I have to pay $129 for 10.3. Just bad timing for my wallet. Did I mention I'm getting married Saturday? "Honey, I know we just got back from the honeymoon, but this is PANTHER!!!"
Of cource I am rather dissapointed that Panther won't run on it :(
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
Microsoft's updates can be catagorized into three things: 1) Service Packs, 2) Critical Updates (such as the latest IE bugfixes), 3) Non-critical updates (such as improved foreign language support, Media Player Upgrades, etc)
Apple's updates can be similarly catagorized: 1) Mac OS X Updates (i.e, 10.2.x), 2) Security Updates (such as the one I received on 8/14), and 3) Non-critical updates (such as the Java 1.4.1 update)
There is a direct correlation between the two in their catagorization. The only difference is in how they express their version numbering; Microsoft tends to be slightly more liberal in their updates of the major version. Just because Microsoft didn't refer to Windows XP as "Windows 5.1", are they more justified in charging for a periodic upgrade than Apple progressing from 10.2 to 10.3?
If there's one thing to be learned from the 10.2.8 update, it's that Slashdot won't hesitate to gang up on Apple for doing something stupid. Unlike other companies, however, Apple doesn't make a business out of it.
I was going to put a sig here, but I had already submitted the message.
I think "Apple ][ Forever" was an attempt by folks inside of Apple (most notably Woz) to keep Apple from dumping the Apple ][ in the face of the Macintosh. Of course, they failed.
The Newton WAS a very important part of their product line, and was even starting to make money right before it got the axe. The Newton could have OWNED the mid- to high-end PDA market right now if Apple had nurtured it. See how Apple is gradually morphing the iPod into a PDA? They know that PDA's are the future. Unfortunately, the Newton was a Sculley project, and I believe Jobs killed it for that very reason, out of spite. And then I think he deeply regretted what he had done, because he tried to buy out Palm, which was populated with most of the former Newton engineers.
Running the original Rhapsody version of OS X on a TAM? A PPC 603e processor? Why would you want to do that? Rhapsody ran way slow on my 400 mhz G3 Blue & White tower, I can't imagine trying to run it on a TAM.
Beige G3's get the shaft? Fine with me. Why should Apple commit tremendous engineering resources to running the latest OS on Macs they sold four and five years ago? The experience would not be satisfying, even if they did.
Apple charges for another service pack. Yay.
So what, exactly, are you whining about?
Not to mention, a new eMac with Panther will cost you about $800. If you can't afford $1000 every 5-8 YEARS perhaps you shouldn't be looking at Apples in the first place.
"It looks like "old world" Beige G3 support has been discontinued -- the update requires a Mac with built in USB."
Jaguar did not officially support Beige G3 either but I have successfully intalled it on one. I expect Panther will be similar. There is a also a program called X Post Facto, whcih I have never used, but which claims to let you install OSX on even older machines than that. As for Powerbook users, you knew that Panther was coming out before the end of the year and apple made no gurantee that you would be able to upgrade for the reduced price.....
Does anyone know why Apple's support in Europe is so bad? I work as a sysadmin at a scientific institution in Germany, and I moved here four months ago from Michigan. I am so shocked at how bad it is here compared to in the states. We preordered a G5 on the day of the announcement and it came in today. That's a lot longer than it took in the States. Oh, and Panther-we've been beta-testing it for some time, and everything we've found that doesn't work with our network (setting a central cups print server for example) we have told Apple, and they told us they would investigate the problems for 700 euro per incident. FOR US TO FIX THEIR BUGS! I like Apple a lot, but it seems they care very little about Europe, and being as that's where I am, and we are running about 400 macs in the institute, I think they should care more. Anyone feel the same? Or anyone in Europe have better experiences?
It's too bad you can't wait. Apple never ships anything on time. If I were you, I would prepare to wait.
Yes, it does, just buy virtual PC. I've heard that it is fairly usable even on a 400MHz iBook, especially if you install a haxie that lets you quit the finder. I haven't tried it though, so don't take my word for it.
today is spelling optional day.
Actually, Microsoft did call to Windows XP as Windows 5.1. They just threw the XP on to detract attention from it.
Well, 5 years ago I had a p2-400 with 128MB RAM and a 12GB hard drive. XP still runs fine on that...not that I advocate Windows usage, but I can see why some people might be frustrated. Of course, like any good slashdotter, my current machines are a p4 2.8GHz, an Athlon 2600+, a P4 1.9GHz, a Sun Blade, an SGI O2, a P3 750 lappy, and an 800MHz FP iMac.
Are they going to force you to use little USB doggles to let you log in? Seems like a strange requirement for an OS.
Font Book, a new application that provides system-level font management with double-click font preview, one-click installation and an intuitive interface for managing font collections, and activating or deactivating fonts;
Jeff Bezos will have Apple's ass over that one. Everyone knows that all operations completed with at least one but fewer than two clicks is 0wnz0r3D by Amazon.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
~~~
Huh?? Were you fond of the 66 MHz bus and onboard 10 MB/sec SCSI? Or was it the EIDE that you liked?
I was fond of the onboard SCSI, mini-din 8 serial, and ADB. I don't want to use USB adaptors or PCI cards to get them.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
floppy to floppy?
You must live on the moon. I haven't used a floppy disk in the last 4 years.
Apple's support cycle is five years. Nothing unusual here. However, just because you can't officially upgrade to Panther, doesn't mean your Mac can't be used anymore. Just keep doing what you're doing with Jaguar, it's an awesome OS.
Not to mention, a new eMac with Panther will cost you about $800. If you can't afford $1000 every 5-8 YEARS perhaps you shouldn't be looking at Apples in the first place.
I can afford such upgrades far more often, but I am not interested in doing so.
The PC that I'm using now is the evolution of the Pentium 100 that I built 7 years ago. When I was ready for a new CPU/MB, they fit into the sustem that I had. When I was ready for more, I added more. Over time that P100 became a P200MMX then a P2 300, then a K62450 and now an Athlon XP 1800+.
The Mac that I bought 6 months after I built this PC is still at 200Mhz, I could have added a G3 to the L2 cache slot, but why cobble together something that just barely works?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Wow, floppy to floppy copy. It truly is a shame Apple isn't supporting this critical feature any longer.
i have a 700mhz ibook. it runs jaguar wuite nicely to tell you the truth. what concerns me is that when 10.2 came out, it seemed that alot of 10.1 stuff didn't work. is this going to be the case. it doesn't say so on apple's web site. and i actually don't blame them. backwards compatibility is a PITA to maintain, and it doesn't make good business sense. (they're not a monopoly) just that before i upgrade, i don't want my apps to break. of course, i'm going to reward my self with a new 15" PB in the spring when i finish my masters, so by then all the bugs will be worked out. i hope.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
err....really? Works fine here on a 12" Powerbook/Nokia 3650 combination. In fact, with the iCal/iSync updates out today my machine just become a lot more useful as it now sync calendars with any Series 60 device (which includes the 3650).
That's practically illegal- "we broke it, so just buy the update."
Or go back to pre-10.2.8 for free. Assuming it's broken of course, as stated above I haven't seen any evidence for that. Happy to be proved wrong if you can point me anywhere.
Now, if you're looking for something that really is illegal...
Cheers,
Ian
yes!!!! IT DOES! Like a bulldozer on your ass fault!
Huh? If you have $1K to spend you can get:
- 1GHz PowerPC G4
- 128MB SDRAM
- 60GB Ultra ATA drive
- DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo drive
- Keyboard/Mouse
- VGA out
- S-Video Out
- Firewire
- USB
- Audio In/Out
- 10/100 Ethernet
- 56K modem
- Mac OS X
- Speakers
- 17" monitor
- and a bunch of useful software
That's a pretty good entry-level system. It's not the fastest thing you can buy, but it's plenty of machine for most people. If you need more of a machine than that, besides some RAM, you're not in the market for an entry-level machine.My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Panther's definetly worth it! Just but the 5 license family pack and split the cost with five friends. 40 bucks a piece, not bad for an excellent OS
We all read they were targeting 10/3 for 10.3. 10/24 just isn't as cute. Yeah, 3 is between 2 and 4, but not many people are going to get that.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
:)
Expose? WICKED!!!
iChat AV? AWESOME!!
Brushed Metal Finder? You missed the fine print, that's not the new feature.
Favorites panel in Mac != Favorites panel in Windows
and once and for all..
Mac OS X takes 20 mins to install and has no serial numbers.
Grow up. Frankly I'm tired of the likes of you.
Just got my dual g5 on friday afternoon for work. Guess what, I don't qualify for the up to date program, its only for macs sold after today.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
The OPs analogy was perfect. the 10.2.x updates you describe are hotfixes, and the 10.x are service packs
No. This analogy is false. Apple's version numbering is 10.X where X is the new release number based on the baseline Mac OS 10 architecture. 10.X.Y releases are service packs.
This is no different from Microsoft's release engineering versioning. Windows 2000 was based on NT and was versioned 5.0 and Windows XP based on windows 2000 is version 5.1. Just open a cmd window and look at the verison of XP it should say 5.1.0.xxxx.
Linux does the same thing with 2.X where X is even numbers for stable new releases and 2.X.Y is the number for fixes and minor updates.
There is a difference between marketing and release engineering verisoning.
...and you just found them all!
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
However, that's not the important part. I'm still kind of disappointed that there's no discount to people upgrading from Jaguar; I bought Jag in April for the full $129, and I'm rather disappointed that Panther's going to make me pay again. I'm not saying that Panther should be free; Apple deserves money for all the great new features, but I wish there were at least a small discount for Jag users. Oh well.
I meta-mod all positive moderation Unfair, because it's abuse of the system.
And don't forget, XCode has distributed build capability. So for multi-server build environments the build time can drop significantly.
This is a good thing.
Also of note is that Apple announced Panther server (I'm sure that means we'll be seeing uber-optimized X-Serves in the near future). One of the most fucking amazing features of P.Server is that it can function as your Windows PDC for all those poor XP boxes out there.
:)
Now this could be like Apple previously said "Jag can auth to Active Directory" and basically make it impossible by not telling anybody how to do it but if P.Server really can act as a PDC then the X-Serves loaded with an unlimited license of P.Server are a fucking great deal!
Oh, and if anybody lives in the DFW area then look for me at the Knox Street release party on the 24th. I'm the goofy redhead
Photoshop has had problems with speed up till now on os X due to the huge number of widgets/palettes it displays. I expect Panther will speed the display of these windows up. Haven't used 3D Studio so couldn't comment. GCC has seen some improvement, yes (see other posts).
If you're asking whether it will speed up, say, a filter operation on an image in Photoshop - no, probably not, though quite possibly, due to improvements to the underlying math libraries that many such filters *may* call.
Your comment about not having to call the OS at all leaves me a little baffled. How could you write a program which accesses files, with a GUI, without calling the OS? This could be true I suppose for your own very special definition of 'OS', I'm intrigued to know what you feel this Acronym means?
I just tried upgrading my SCSI-based 300 MHz beige machine over the weekend to 10.2 and the installation always hangs. What's the secret? Is the SCSI subsystem to blame? Does my machine already support IDE drives so I could try that route?
About the student ADC membership, Apple says "NOTE: Please note that the ADC Student Program Membership does NOT include access to the ADC Seeding Program." Meaning no free pre-release software. Oh, bugger.
The sometime slugishness of the OSX Finder has been attributed by some to the fact that it was written in Carbon. There are some interesting discussions on this around the net.
So, are the changes to the Finder in Panther just an update or has it been re-written using the Cocoa APIs?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - BF
I never thought about it before, but my new dual G5 is measurably faster than my WallStreet, which has, yes, shown certain signs of age since it was released in 1998. In retribution, I will not only download Panther, but shoplift a 17-inch PowerBook and steal Steve Jobs' turtleneck collection.
Read for comprehension and stop being a turd ... also stop self moderating.
As you can see from the comments alone you appear to be an idiot, but the parent I beleive was talking about the Wallstreet and a SPECIFIC feature that will be missed - dual stoarge bays. The Lombard was really a revision more than a better release - the Pismo was the better release.
Yes, if and only if the yearly upgrade gives users things they're willing to pay $129 a year to get.
OS X is still a relatively "young" OS, despite its BSD/Mach roots. I'm going to get it for the performance enhancements alone - the "fast" machine in my house is a 466 MHz G4, my white iBook is a 500 MHz G3, and they'll both benefit.
{aside type="snarky"} Anyone have any examples of a Microsoft OS upgrade or new release that promised and delivered improved performance on 2+ year-old hardware? {/aside}
In a year or two, all the "easy" tuning in the OS will be done. At that point, new OS releases will have to sell primarily on new features. That's when we'll see if this digital hub stuff sells.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Which means that windows users pay $199 for an UPGRADE and mac users pay $199 for a whole new OS.
but why cobble together something that just barely works?
I dunno, why WOULD you use the x86 architecture? Or were you referring to Windows?
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the native X11 support in 10.3. That's what's going to make me switch from a win/linux dual boot dell to an ibook or powerbook.
USB floppy. USB zip. USB superdisk. I'm pretty sure all of those are available for new laptops, and are just about as easy to carry around as internal drives (assuming a laptop bag, of course)... :)
I went through Apple's store and got specified that I was an educator by simply picking a school at random from my city. I am all the way to what appears to be the last page (asking for my credit card details), and have not been prompted for any sort of ID to prove I work at the school. I only had to agree to something saying I qualify...
Generally, Apple's "pay" upgrades include major new software and or features, as well as OS performance enhancements. Having seen Expose in action, I'd certainly pay $69 for it (which is the academic OSX upgrade price) if it were offered alone as a shareware product.
OS X Panther
Malcolm X
Black Panther Party
I think I might have a better grasp on the meaning of the word than you. From the Macquarie Dictionary (I'm in Australia, but you'll find the OED agrees):
"proprietary... -adj.1. belonging to a proprietor or proprietors. 2. being a proprietor or proprietors; holding property: the proprietary class 3. pertaining to property or ownership: proprietary rights. 4. belonging or controlled as property. 5. manufactured and sold only by the owner of the patent, formula, brand name or trademark associated with the product..."
Does Toyota have a monopoly on CARS using gasoline? No. Nor do they have exclusive rights to allow people to make gasoline for exclusive use as they see fit. I know its hard for some of you college graduates to understand the analogy so I'll explain.
Mac is to Apple
as Windows is to Microsoft
I have yet to see any of you, the idiots only, complain about Apple's "upgrade" every few months. I bet if Microsoft offered similar upgrades it would be an "Outrage", "Criminal", or "Monopolistic opportunists"...
I would have believed the "I put an USB card in "thingie to some extent.
However when you mentionned the bondi blue I knew you were trolling. The Rom has been on-board since the bondi-blue.
That's why you cannot use an imac CD to install any OS since OS8.1,and that is why you are full of crap.
I use the UNIX side of things on my Mac as well. I have a lot of software installed through Fink or simply from tarballs, including perl 5.8, QMail, TeTeX, nmap, and a host of minor utilities. I have backups scripted with hfstar (a Mac-enabled version of GNUtar) and cdrecord. I serve HTTP off Apache 2.
I know that Fink does not yet support Panther. In part this is due to GCC3.3. But how badly will I be screwed if I upgrade? Will I have to wait for Fink to catch up and recompile everyhing? That would probably add up to days of compiling, even with GCC3.3 (my eMac is hardly top-of-the-line).
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
I feel so dirty...
This is probably the first MacOS X I will ever get. I have 10.2.7 currently. I was wondering how well is its OS upgrade? Does it leave behind a lot of left overs like Windows? Or is it better to do a clean installation?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
The brushed metal finder is still there. Yuck!
It's not too late to sign the petition http://www.petitiononline.com/stopugly/
Yo, it's a brand new bouncing T-R-O-L-L. That ain't Seth Finkelstein, faker.
Want to get it early? try this: (bittorrent)
CD1
CD2
CD3
The accessibility features are not being promoted as prominently as they were with Jaguar (in fact, I could not find a direct link to this page), but they are improved. Specifically, Zoom now has adjustable contrast, which makes it work very much like a CCTV magnifier for paper. Full keyboard access has also been tweaked. Both very nice, but someone who is totally blind still can't use OS X.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
I agree. The X.z notation has to go, but they are major improvements over the previous versions.
They really ought to do something like OS X2, or something like that.
*everything* is Orwellian to cats.
I don't mind spending money for quality, but I just freakin' spent $2700 three weeks ago.
I complained to Apple about the discrepancy, you should too.
I always felt that if apple was charging so much for hardware, and its the ONLY (real) hardware you can run their OS on, the OS should be free. (as in beer, not speech)
Microsoft PDC 2003 attendees will get an alpha of Longhorn. PDC 2003 is October 26-30. So we'll see 10.3 a few days before.
Coincidence? I think not!
Clarification: iChat doesn't require an AOL account. It requires an AIM account. Very different, thankfully.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
Steve: "Well, we'll just give all the G5 people the free upgrade, the powerbooks are shit out of luck."
Lackey: "What if the angry powerbook owners storm the building, and take it?"
Steve: "How much damage can they do? Those powerbooks wouldn't even dent my skull. Now, if the G5 owners got pissed, wielding their G5s like clubs, then I might shit my pants. Those things are big. Let's keep them happy."
Lackey: "Good thinking, master. I will alert your minions."
Steve (to self): "Yes... Angry G5 owners...damn....Shit my pants..."
WHAT???? Flamebait????
Some of you mods really need to grow up.
Really, I am currently a beta tester for OSX Server (10.3). When they send out the latest builds they also send out the latest client (10.3 Panther) builds to test with.
I have a old bondi iMac that I use for client testing. My OSX Server is a single processor xserve. Pictures (here and here
I installed Panther on the iMac (Bondi upgraded with a 333 processor and in the iRack box), took the drive out of the iMac and put it into the beige box (lower right corner of second picture). And there runs Panther.
I have been doing this stuff for probably more years that you have been out of diapers AC so back off. For example note the pair of ANS in the second picture. I have 6 of them running AIX, LinuxPPC, Debian and YDL. I've been working on a hack to get OSX 10.2 running. So far so good as it starts to boot but hangs about 1/2 way through the boot process.
If you purchased any new Mac after Oct. 8 you are entitled to a $20 upgrade. If you purchased any new G5 (any date) the same applies. Visit the Mac OS X Up-To-Date page for the application an further details.
The $20 covers shipping and handling of the retail box.
I can actually *feel* the Reality Distortion Field taking hold of me. Time is moving slowly. I can't bring myself to open the box. Wow. Powerful Stuff.
I'm sure the crack-high will wear off sooner or later, but for now it's all good. :)
and I don't get a free upgrade?!?!?!!?
very lame.
Does anybody know the build # of the GM release?
and you'll see a pathetically slow XP.
You have to remember HOW the screen is composited in OS X. This is way ahead of XP. Longhorn MIGHT get it close to where it is in 10.2.
If you don't believe this, go ahead and open a transparent terminal window or 10 in X, run top, play a DVD and drag the terminal window over the movie.
Now, go find me an XP box that could even think about doing that.
I would agree that Apple is lacking a good entry-level desktop machine right now ($3K for a monster dual that can support 8-16 GB RAM is a good price, as are most of the PowerBooks... but there is no ideal $1K single processor desktop [the single proc G5s are really expensive in terms of bang for the buck]).
Entry-level single processor desktop systems for about $1,000?
Hmmm... we... let's see...
There's the eMac ($700-$1,700 depending on config).
Entry-level, check. Single-processor, check. Desktop, check. About $1,000, check.
And for just a little more, there's the iMac ($1,300 and up).
And you can find both for less (or with bundled add-ons) without looking very hard.
Support for Microsoft Exchange is built into Mail and Address Book to make it easy to access Exchange email and sync address book entries;
Does anyone know if this means full MAPI support for Exchange Server? I'm guessing not.
AC comments get piped to
While many people will be able to "get by" with older versions of 10.x (Cheetah, Puma, and Jaguar). I think that the raft of new features Apple has put in to Panther (10.3) will make most software developers insist on Panther as a minimum requirement for their users.
Many of the trendy UI widgets you see in Apple's iApps are now "standard" in Panther. The new features in the table view alone will greatly simplify developer code. Add to that a compelling new controller layer that allows developers to ditch most of their boring MVC glue code for only a slight speed penalty and things are looking much simpler if a developer just says "Minimum Requirement: 10.3 Panther or higher".
There are some great new features in the system for end users (Expose', Better Finder, modest speed bump*), but in the end I think it's the developers who will compel the mom & dad crowd to move to Panther.
(*Incidentally, I don't think the speed bump will feel as big to most people as the bump from Puma to Jaguar felt. Some frames have been dropped from some UI animations so it feels like they're popping out faster for example, but in some cases (like the new controller layer) things are actually going to slow down.)
Let's see, that would put us back in '73. Not many PCs then. The Apple II (released 26 years ago) was capable of generating text on its hi-res graphics display (if blitting a pre-stored bitmap directly to the screen can really be called "rendering"), but was painfully slow. The operating system relied upon hardware character generation, and did not even attempt to render. Other PCs of the time lacked graphics display with sufficient resolution for text rendering. The Macintosh (19 years ago) was the first PC to use "rendering" of text routinely (if you don't count the Lisa), but it was still just blitting prestored bitmaps. Actual real-time rendering of outline fonts came in 13 years ago, with Adobe release of Adobe Type Manager, but it was still pretty crude and ugly, with no antialiasing. Apple introduced antialiased text in OS 8.5, about 5 years ago (Microsoft offered it in an upgrade to Windows 95). The idea of antialiasing is an old one, but it wasn't until the mid 90's that computers had enough power to do it to text in real-time at a respectable (albeit slow by modern standards) rate.
System Profiler on the Beige G3s claim to have a system bus of 67 MHz. Take THAT!!
Not to nitpick... er, yeah to nitpick:
The PC that I'm using now is the evolution of the Pentium 100 that I built 7 years ago. When I was ready for a new CPU/MB, they fit into the sustem that I had.
Fair enough.
When I was ready for more, I added more. Over time that P100 became a P200MMX then a P2 300, then a K62450 and now an Athlon XP 1800+.
When you went from a P200MMX to P2/300 you needed a new mobo. So why did you then go to a K6-2, which required yet another new mobo? Why not replace that P2/300 with a P3/500 and keep the same board? Also, are you seriously running your Athlon XP 1800+ with the same powersupply and case airflow as the Pentium 100? How many times have you upgraded your hard disk? Your optical drives? Don't get me wrong, I like futzing around with my PCs too... but I also love my G4. You're comparing apples to drywall.
The Mac that I bought 6 months after I built this PC is still at 200Mhz, I could have added a G3 to the L2 cache slot, but why cobble together something that just barely works?
FWIW, I know two people that have used the cache slot CPU upgrades... they worked well in their day with the versions of MacOS at that time.
I put a new/rebuilt engine in my 1977 Ford F150 a couple years ago, it only took two afternoons with the help of a mechanic friend. But my BMW 528i still has its original six cylinder engine after several years dispite my desire for a V8. I guess I should blame BMW for not using more standard parts, I could have slowly upgraded it like some of my buddies do with their japanese imports.
How many other operating system makers charge their loyal customers $129 for each service pack release?
But yet the 486 I bought 12 years ago still runs linux.
Funny that.
Karma: Non-Heinous
Before Apple trnasitioned from 680x0 code to PowerPC, it profiled exactly how much time applications spent in OS toolbox routines. I believe the figure that was thrown around was 80-85%.
Here's what I take away from the whole "G5 customers are grandfathered" situation:
My hunch is that the 10.2.7 release they're shipping on the G5 today must represent the *bare minimum* needed to get the OS to run reliably on those systems (and maybe some 'low-hanging fruit' optimizations), and they spent much more time and effort getting 10.3 optimized for the G5. I'd be really curious to see some comparative benchmarks between 10.2.7 and 7B85 on a G5 system to see if that hunch pans out.
On the other hand, what's in Jaguar 10.2.x has already been tweaked for the G4 processors pretty thoroughly.
(I'm NOT defending Apple's decision - I think setting today as the cutoff date is pretty sucky.)
For those who complain about older non USB machines not being supported I have this comment.
Firstly, someone will provide a hack sooner or later such as X PostFacto which will enable it to run, so relax, and
Secondly, although I have a (supposedly now ageing, ha ha) 667MHZ G4 TiPowerbook, I also have a 333MHz Lombard G3, which I often use... with the OS that came with it, Mac OS 8.6. This is for a number of reasons, which include the fact that,
a. OSX wasn't really made for machines like this
b. I have a load of software for that OS
c. I have some peripherals that don't work on OSX that still work there, like my old Wacom Artpad
d. With that OS and those versions of the software, I can still get a lot of practical use out of it.
e. It's very responsive and stable with all those progs on it.
I will get Jaguar, but for my TiBook, which will see use for a number of years yet.
It looks like "old world" Beige G3 support has been discontinued -- the update requires a Mac with built in USB."
Oh dear, recently bought one of those to be able to run MacOS X (had a powerpc 801).
But wait: my Mac has PCI-slots, what if I just insert one of those el cheapo USB-cards? Will that work?
www.vanheusden.com - home of Multitail, HTTPing, CoffeeSaint, EntropyBroker, rsstail, bsod, listener, nagcon, nagi
The PC I bought a few years ago doesn't meet Windows XP's minimum requirements.
And yet, FreeBSD 4.8 still runs on a 100 Mhz Pentium with 76 meg DRAM.
A bit slower than 2.2.X ran on the same box, but it can still serve up web pages and get mail.
Now, why can't Apple's BSD based unix have that same kind of hardware lifespan?
Why the freak'n french fry is Apple not giving new PowerBook purchasers a free upgrade!?!
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/
The new PowerBooks were released *after* the G5s. The PowerBooks cost as much if not more than the G5s. So if I bought a G5 *months* ago, "free" $20 upgrade, but if I bought my PowerBook yesterday $129!?!!
Apparently the year of the laptop means "treat PowerBook buyers like second class citizens". It's not so much about the money as it is an indication of the kind of company Apple is. I hope someone sues their ass for discriminatory pricing practices.
Everyone f'd by this should call and complain to 1-800-myapple or return their machines and re-order. That will cost Apple more than the $129 in processing. If they are smart, they will reconsider before it costs their brand more in lost good will.
When you went from a P200MMX to P2/300 you needed a new mobo. So why did you then go to a K6-2, which required yet another new mobo? Why not replace that P2/300 with a P3/500 and keep the same board?
Fair question. I'll explain, I was an early adopter of the PII, I had an FX chipset MB. I couldn't go beyong a PII 350 and I had no AGP slot. I had to get a new MB to upgrade. The P3 was not available at the time, and the price of the K62/MB combo was right.
Also, are you seriously running your Athlon XP 1800+ with the same powersupply and case airflow as the Pentium 100?
No, I've gone through several cases. But I until this time last year, I had my linux box running a 700 Mhz Duron in the same case with the same 235 watt power supply that supported my PII 300.
How many times have you upgraded your hard disk? Your optical drives? Don't get me wrong, I like futzing around with my PCs too... but I also love my G4. You're comparing apples to drywall.
Let's see... HDs 1.2 GB to 2.4, 3.2, 10, 20, 40, and now 80 GB. My 10x cd and 6x changer have been replaced with a 16x DVD and Plextor burner.
But my BMW 528i still has its original six cylinder engine after several years dispite my desire for a V8. I guess I should blame BMW for not using more standard parts, I could have slowly upgraded it like some of my buddies do with their japanese imports.
Both of my automobiles are GM for a reason.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Have'nt seen Panther listed on amazon yet
Steve Jobs is really amazing. He will be the first person to successfully establish a non-x86 processor as a viable alternative to the x86 processors. The entire ill-fated consortium called the Advanced Computing Environment (which promoted MIPS R2000), backed by professors from Stanford University, could not do it. The gang (which promoted the PowerPC) of IBM, Motorola, and Apple (under the old CEO) could not do it.
Now, here comes Steve Jobs. Apple, under his leadership, manages to do it. How does he do it? What's his secret? You can be sure that ECC memory for the G5 is on its way.
G5 owners get the upgrade "free" because the G5s were originally supposed to ship with Panther as their OS. Since Panther wasn't ready when the G5s had to go out the door, Apple had to "hack" 10.2.6 to for the G5, producing the G5-only Mac OS X 10.2.7 to tide people over.
Secondly, Apple didn't fuck you, you fucked yourself by buying a PowerBook when you knew that Panther was forthcoming. You were perfectly happy to trade $x to Apple in exchange for a new PowerBook running 10.2.x. The deal is done, you got what you were expecting to get, and Apple does not owe you anything else other than the balance of time on your warranty.
I mean, you can buy a lot of things for $129. It's a shame there's not a cheaper upgrade price....
Microsoft charges over $120k just to submit a bug!
PDC support comes from Samba.
No that's fucking terrible. You could buy a PC for a grand that would run rings around that. More CPU power, more memory, etc. etc.
Macs look like good values ONLY IF YOU ONLY KNOW MACS. I have a Mac that I could upgrade to run OSX quartz extreme and improve the processor etc. But when I look at what it would cost to upgrade the cpu for example I realize that the total cost of this upgrade would buy a decent new PC that's faster. (G4 500Mhz for $249, then for Quartz extreme you need a crappy Ati Radeon pci 7000 for $115, and addin the cost of OSX at $129. Fucking ridiculous! An AMD "barton" 2500+ cpu with 333Mhz FSB costs like $80 dollars. Apple is a shitty, shitty, SHITTY value, you can take it from someone who has made the mistake.
...I'll patent a sarcasm detector and sell you one. It's a joooooke people.
Were you one of the early downloaders of 2.8?
There's a new 2.8 which showed up in my sofware update a few days ago - maybe that would solve your problems?
I haven't hd any problems with my original 2.8, but that might be just because I don't use bluetooth.
D
but if i say too much they might be able to hunt me down and do bad things. ok, ok, i just preordered me a copy. also i recomend you find a college student to buy you a copy if you dont like $129.
p.s. xp home $199, xp pro $299, and before you say "but ms doesnt make you pay for upgrades" look real hard at xp and you might notice that it is just 2000 with a pretty face. every software company makes you pay for upgrades, mac upgrades come out quicker than windows upgrades i guess.
lose != loose
Exactly, it will also include a full 1.0 of iChat which will be 29.99 seperately and if you have played with iChat AV you know how TRULY revolutionary it is to videoconferencing.
Apple's including a full featured IDE with OSX has been one of the major factors in motivating so many people to switch to Mac OSX and Apple machines. There isn't really any other proprietry OS (I'm not talking about the OSS Darwin subsystem, but the Aqua GUI here) that does this. In almost all operating systems you pay a hefty price for even crippled beginner versions of coding tools (Microsoft's Visual C#.Net, VB.Net and VC++.Net all cost almost as much as Apple's OS upgrade itself, yet are crippled in that they don't support the whole feature set such as networking and custom forms etc).
IN Windows there is no real coding tools built into the OS, unless you consider WSH scripting in a text editor coding. Given that this is so, I wonder what it will take for MS to start trying to compete with Apple by releasing some stripped down version of the VisualStudio toolset free with the OS? MS is known to fear ANY ceompetition, no matter how small, which is why they included Luna in WinXP to combat OSX, and why they are doing the compositing graphical model in Longhorn. Even though Linux is really not there yet on the Desktop, MS is frightened of fractions of minor percentage points in marketshare being lost to Linux.
On the other hand, what is to stop Apple doing what MS has done and include useful and popular features of Windows in OSX, some of which already happened in jaguar with Cmd-c and Cmd-v copying and pasting of files in the finder.
Actually, it is for the majority of Apple's users. Even for web-developers like me, it's just easier and quicker to use a GUI for things like FTP.
Are you saying that 10.2.7 is a G5-only version? I'm asking because my new Powerbook G4 came preloaded with it.
That should read: Didn't know Apple made a beige iMac.
This was an institutional "software maintenance" plan that allows you to pay up front via an annual subscription - you get whatever not-so-free versions come out while the subscription is active for the price of a CD. We have a few hundred licenses under this. It was affordable.
I *think* they changed the name, and now they even offer it to individuals.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Things would have been mighty confusing if they had called it Mac OS X v11.
For a g5, it is $19.95 plus tax plus
$4 for Ground
$7 for Second Day
$12 for Overnight
So again, the price is not a shipping and handeling charge but a box and media and profit charge with shipping, handeling, and taxes to be further added on.
Let's not forget the first release of OS X. Almost every action involving the GUI was agonizingly slow -- resizing windows, minimizing, etc. As much as I disliked Mac OS 9's lack of proper multitasking, its responsive interface was sometimes a relief from its sluggish successor. With that clarification, your statement does hold true for post-10.0 versions. I am still using 10.1, but I have seen the remarkable speed improvements in Jaguar. Speed improvements alone were not enough to make me spend the money for it (10.1 is fast enough for me), but the combined feature enhancements of Jaguar and Panther are definitely enticing.
You mean it's as good as Netmeeting?
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
~~~
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Dev tools are usually free to developers. Any level of developer. Go to Apple's developer page. Sign up for their free online developer status and you will get access to the tools.
I don't know when xCode will actually make it to the download page but I don't think it will be long. As a registered developer you will also probably be given the chance to buy a CD with the tools for around $20.
what if I just insert one of those el cheapo USB-cards? Will that work?
No, it won't work. 10.3 requires a Macintosh built after USB became standard equipment. It doesn't need USB, but a machine built since then.
So did mine. And the re-install DVD contains 10.2.7 as well.
10 is the marketing number. Ignore it.
"Mac OS", to version 9.2.2, is dead.
"Mac OS X" is a new product. 10.0 was really "Mac OS X Version 1.0". 10.1 was "Mac OS X Version 2.0"
Apple could have very easily called it Mac OS 11, or something other than Mac OS, but it wouldn't have had the same effect.
The question though, is what happens after 10.9?
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
Only reason I ask is I'm considering whether to plunk down the cash for the upgrade.
I love my iBook 800 but I do wish it was a little speedier with 10.2 (yes I do have 640M of RAM). The new features seem really cool, especially Expose and built-in faxing. But what will really matter for me is just how much, if any, speed improvement there is.
Most excellent. The local Mac community had great fun playing with Expose. Y'know, repeatedly pressing the Expose hotkey produces a strangely hypnotic experience...
Of course, hearing about this, I immediately went to the up to date page at the Apple store to qualify my new PowerBook which I purchased in September. My machine was qualified for the $20 upgrade and I promptly ordered it.
Lotsa stuff isn't out on CD and never will be. Original Thelonious Monk releases, and Jet Black Berries records, as examples. Without a turntable, I can't listen to them. The list of recordings that got deleted from our culture when they changed formats is long and saddening. I'm typing this on a 333 Lombard I bought right after they came out in 99. The original battery still does over two hours. A Sony CDRW from ebay works perfectly with 10.2.6 and fits the expansion slot. Yes it's slow, but when I go to the Apple Store and try opening apps on the new ones it doesn't seem blindingly faster, which I expect if I'm going to pay to upgrade. And everyone should have known to wait for Panther. They only announced it last summer. Another reason to wait: The upgrade CD's always suck: the Jag ones wouldn't do an Archive and Install, for reasons beyond my comprehension. I worked AppleCare support, Apple made a lot of enemies over pinshit like that and like October 8, but the veteran buyers are like Russians at the GUM, they buy when it's right time.
Maybe they listened to you and changed the web back-end already, or maybe there isn't a hard date. I just successfully ordered it for my Powerbook purchased on Oct. 3. It saves them some money; I was ready to box it up and take it back to CompUSA.
Even though the form that is linked from the parent post says that you qualify if you purchased on or after Oct 8, I clicked through, entered Oct 3 and my Mac's serial number, and it allowed me to order. Woot!
Moral: If you miss an arbitrary deadline, try anyway.
but paying the same for an upgrade from 10.2 to 10.3 as someone might pay to upgrade from Mac OS 9 to 10.3 is not
For technical reasons, Apple chose to go with a more conservative numbering scheme. The problem seems to be that buyers put way too much emphasis on the version number. For example, 10.2 brought Quartz Extreme, which was a massive leap for the graphics engine. This isn't something you'd typically find in a point release. These are major new features that require serious engineering.
Mac OS X 10.3 is actually Mac OS X 3.0. In fact, I have an early Mac OS X packing list that reads "Mac OS X 1.0", but they've since changed it to Mac OS X 10.0. Apple tried to address the point release stigma using "Jaguar" and "Panther", but there's still some confusion.
The bizarre dilemma Apple finds themselves in is that they've created this incredibly flexible architecture that allows them to make sweeping improvements very quickly, but it happens so fast that people don't think it's real. You can't win.
As for needing Panther to run future applications, yes, of course. Apple buffs up the frameworks, so better applications will result from the framework enhancements. The alternative is to just sit around and let other OS architectures catch up while not selling a new product. I don't think the advantages of this outweight the disadvantages at this point.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Just to confirm this, I just went through the "qualifying" and my 12"PB purchased 9/18 qualified and I placed the order for 10.3 for $20.
-h3
They don't provide major OS updates for free, why should Apple?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
An Apple story! Maybe now we should start a debate about the number of buttons a mouse should have. That would be real fun.
Well, rendering text has been "realtime" for 30 years, because the sophistication of what rendering text means has grown in complexity to take advantage of faster CPU's. Sure, on a 1.77 MHz TRS-80 I could edit text (16 lines of 64 characters!), but all text was white on black, monospaced pre-defined characters (not a graphics display, no fonts much less bolding or italics), and word wrapping was a special command that you issued when you were done writing because the computer took several seconds per page to format. On my current Mac (733 MHz G4, fairly slow by today's standards) I'm driving a huge 24-bit deep bitmapped display, where everything displayed is rendered anti-aliased, then mapped onto a display where it's alpha blended. It doesn't allow me to write much faster (OK, saving to a hard drive is a lot faster than saving to cassette tape) but it's doing 400,000 times as much work in order to do realtime spell checking, text wrapping, line layout, proportional spacing, etc.
And to bring it back to the question of whether applications spend any time executing OS calls, _all_ of that work is being done automagically by the operating system. In fact, I can build my own (simple) word processor using Cocoa in minutes, by snapping together prebuilt framework components that understand fonts, layout, etc., so there's almost no application level code at all.
Well, I guess the question of whether the HTML rendering engine is "in the OS" is a philosophical one -- one could argue that only the lowest levels (kernel, filesystem, VM, drivers, etc.) are really the OS. Or you could say that all of the Cocoa and Carbon frameworks and below (including QuickTime, the HTML rendering engine, etc.) is in the OS, which I think is what any Mac developer would say, since that's all stuff provided by Apple that applications can use. Or you could say that "everything in the MacOS X box" is in the OS, which would include applications.
That being said, when people say "MacOS X 10.3 is faster than 10.2" they're talking about the performance of the total system, not attempting to differentiate between the performance of the filesystem, drivers, GUI, frameworks, applications, etc., so the distinction you're trying to draw is not terribly relevant.
So while I guess you might be right in saying that applications spend fairly little time executing time in the OS if you define the OS as only the kernel, I think I'll stick with my definition of OS: the total software system as provided by Apple. And pretty consistently for nearly 20 years now (I've been developing Mac app's a long time -- I used to use the Lisa Pascal cross-compiler) well written Mac app's typically spend over 90% of their time in OS calls. So when Apple tunes their code, it really does have a strong impact on overall application performance.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
Sign the petiton to KEEP brushed metal,
http://www.petitiononline.com/afbm/
Whether it's about right or wrong is irrelevant, you misread the parent post and Expose. Windows can tile/cascade windows to the screen so every screen is visible on the desktop.
Expose scales (as opposed to resize, stick with me for a moment) all the windows to fit on the screen.
Say you have a DVD window, an active IM window, a browser with a Flash animation, and a Terminal doing a Mozilla compile.
In Windows, tile would fit them all to screen, and resize them; this means the DVD might be cropped, the IM window stretched horizontally and squished vertically (with the text rewrapped), the browser similarly squished and the Flash animation cropped like the DVD window, and your terminal will be resized like the IM window, with the contents similarly rewraped.
In 10.3 (Panther) each window is scaled. Antialiased, proportional, and resampled. The DVD window might shrink to 80%, but there's no cropping of the content. The IM might shrink to 30%, but there's no resize and rewrap. The text is scaled appropriately, shrunken, instead of rewrapped. The browser with the Flash animation is similarly scaled, lets say to 50%, and the Terminal is kept full size.
The best you could say is that Windows fitted all the windows onto the screen, but did not keep each window congruent to itself; it would crop, rewrap, alter the window content to fit, while OS X does not; it changes the zoom factor, instead.
An analogy between the two can be found in virtual desktop space and increased DPI. The Windows tile function is akin to the Photoshop Zoom function '100%', and anything bigger than the desktop is cropped and scroll bars are presented. The Expose function is akin to the Photoshop Zoom function 'Fit to screen', where the content is resampled into the desktop resolution, thereby giving you access to more of the data at once, even if it's resampled.
That's the best I can describe it to someone who doesn't know what Expose is.
GPL Deconstructed
p.s. xp home $199, xp pro $299
For that matter, you can get a five license "family pack" of Panther for $199.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
As someone in the computer industry I can tell you that there are no two greater evils than dell and MS, dell more so than MS. These companies have narrowed the computer market, who has competing platforms, what is to become of the future of technology, who can afford to develop it unless it has compatibility with the MS, Intel standard. What happened to Alpha, PA-Risc,MIPS, and other processors or how about the software platforms. These behemoths are destroying our chances of truly advancing the technology. At least apple had the balls to move to a new OS with exciting new programability, MS is still nursing compatibility.
As for Open Firmware, I believe I was using the open firmware prompt in 1996 on an PowerMac 8600. The rom issue is a different one entirely.
G4 500MHz is an upgrade? And you only have PCI video? What system did you buy?
So essentially you're willing to play the piecemeal upgrade game on the PC, but not the Mac?
I mean from where I stand, it's not radically different, except you never change the case or power supply. I've cobbled together at least 6 PCs in my lifetime from parts and upgrades and recycling. I'm new to the Mac universe, but I do believe my 933MHz PowerMac (heck, even someone's old 450MHz G4 PowerMac) could be similarly 'recycled'.
Add PCI RAID
Upgrade AGP video card
Add PCI video card + 2nd monitor
Replace HDs
Install SuperDrives
Replace 450MHz G4->1GHz G4
Replace 933MHz G4 -> Dual 1.25GHz G4
Upgrade the RAM
Install FireWire 800+USB2 cards
Install Airport cards
Migrate half these things to the 'new' 1.25GHz G4, shuffle some things into the old 450MHz G4, and get new parts for the 933MHz G4 and I have 3 fully functional machines of relatively decent performance:
450MHz -> 1 GHz
933MHz -> dual 1.25GHz
New 1.25GHz
Differences include the fact that you can't buy any old case or power supply, unlike a PC, and are stuck with the motherboard that comes with said case and powersupply, but everything else is user upgradeable, and I plan to take full advantage of that with my PowerMac.
GPL Deconstructed
I am a student ADC, apple developer connection, member, does anybody know if this will be shipped free to ADC members?
Here's a screenshot showing the wait time for Panther is 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and 00 seconds !! :-)
I got my new Powerbook on Friday 3rd.
I then called the AppleStore and after giving them my serial number, they told me it is eligible.
I ordered the upgrade before he'd change his mind (he assured me Apple are not "these kind of people").
Trolling using another account since 2005.
WinXP may have introduced desirable new features, but Windows Files Protection wasn't one of them. From my side of the fence (Windows developer) the link would be to MSDN. Check out the "Requirements" section at the bottom and see that Win2k was where it was introduced.
I know that the size of (void*) is still 4, but will there be any memory management functions which will return a long long as a pointer and allow 64-bit arithmetic on it? Pointers may not be 64-bit by default, but if there's a way of using a 64 bit pointer then that will give you your >4GB blocks.
So, any info?
The difference being that Win XP is the successor to NT, which also ran fine on that system. Apple made some stray comments about backwards compatibility when they started the OS X project, but they really had no idea how resource instensive it was going to be because it was so radically different from OS 9. I mean, typically, OS's run slower and slower with each version because of feature bloat; but OS X is getting faster and faster as they learn how to optimize it.
Before OS X, the larger concern for me was that older OS's be able to run on newer hardware because of the potential speed increase.
Frankly, I'd rather that Apple spend their resources learning how to optimize OS X on newer machines than on making it run on systems that are five years old. Because let's face it, people who keep their systems 5+ years aren't exactly driving the industry forward.
All you have to do is go here and tell them you're a homeschooler who meets the requirements of the area you live in.
They trust you not to use this discount fraudulently. Like they trust you to only install Mac OS on machines you paid for, without license key or authorization BS to enforce it.
Slightly related note: according to a friend who works in Cupertino, Apple is homeschooler-friendly because a small but significant number of the employees there are homeschoolers.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
So Acrobat (and Safari, and every other sane program) use the obvious cmd+ and cmd- to zoom. Preview psychotically uses the lame cmd-uparrow and cmd-downarrow. These choices are clearly lame because while + and - only have obvious meanings here for magnification, arrow keys should be for navigation. If I asked one hundred naive users what down-arrow should do for a document you're reading, I think it's clear they would all say "scroll down" and *not* "next page".
I find this infuriating because with arrow keys and the command key, you *could* get the nirvana of using arrow keys alone to scroll and pan, and then use cmd-arrrow keys to move by page. As it is now, I'm forced to touch the mouse to pan, and that's just lame. The beauty of Mac OS X for me is that it allows you to control 98% of what you ever need to do from the keyboard, despite having a very handsome GUI.
Other lamenesses of Preview include the lack of full-page mode, and the (current; this will be fixed) limitations to using it with pdf files rather than ps files. And these things are too bad, since *other* features of preview (e.g., "Export...") are quite nice. For a system that is so decisively built on top of PDF, it's very odd that Preview is now a weak link.
So does anybody out there with a preview copy of Panther know if Preview has been improved beyond what they brag about at apple.com?
Babar
So essentially you're willing to play the piecemeal upgrade game on the PC, but not the Mac?
Almost. It is a 'game' that can only be played with the PC.
Differences include the fact that you can't buy any old case or power supply, unlike a PC, and are stuck with the motherboard that comes with said case and powersupply,
Exactly! If they chose to, Apple could make machines that conformed to industry specs, like ATX but they choose not to. Can you imagine the market if someone was able to make custom cases that you can migrate any Mac to? I used to be a Mac user, I know mow much they love to customize their machines.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Why is it a game only played on the PC? The game is only playable because you can change the motherboard, power supply, and case?
You don't need to upgrade the motherboard on the Mac; you can upgrade CPUs from G3 -> G4 -> dual G4 (quite unlike a PC which *forces* motherboards to be paired with generational CPUS), and the same with power supplies, which are just as generational as the CPU. And cases... I suppose that's one thing, being able to upgrade the case. But that's the *only* thing that makes a difference between the game on Mac or PC platforms.
Reiterate: You have to upgrade the powersupply when you upgrade the CPU a generation, and you have to upgrade the motherboard when you upgrade the CPU a generation. If you only stick within a generation, then you don't have to. Oh, and ram too.
On a Mac, you don't have to upgrade the motherboard, powersupply, or ram to switch generations. If you want more motherboard features... then you use PCI cards... is that what you're complaining about?
GPL Deconstructed
- any PCI slots
- upgradable video
- more than 1 hard drive bay
- more than two DIMM slots
- a reasonable enclosure/case which I can stick under my desk (i.e. not a built-in monitor, because like the vast majority of buyers I already own one because I've owned a computer before)
I become a non-entry-level user, and suddenly I should pay $1300 instead of $1000, even after dropping the crappy 17" CRT? Okay buddy. Apple must know something about those non-entry-level users who don't want to pay over $1000 for a desktop, and their money, that Dell and Gateway don't.I'm not a smorgasbord.
* any PCI slots
...
* upgradable video
* more than 1 hard drive bay
* more than two DIMM slots
I become a non-entry-level user
Yeah, you are. I'm thinking of the members of my family who are entry level users. They've all upgraded their RAM once (at my behest) and one put a second hard drive in his PC. So the eMac would be perfect. For the extra hard drive, slap down a firewire case and don't sweat screws, cables, jumper settings, etc. They wouldn't even have a clue you could upgrade a video card, if they even knew what one was, and if they had any idea theirs was too slow. We're not talking about hardcore gamers with neon case mods.
* a reasonable enclosure/case which I can stick under my desk
And have to cable... entry-level users don't have any idea what cables go where. They want easy, and maybe want to move the computer on their own occassionally.
(i.e. not a built-in monitor, because like the vast majority of buyers I already own one because I've owned a computer before)
Again, they all had pale 14" or 15" CRT's previously and went out and bought 17" CRT's with their new computers. If you really want to hook that old 15" to the eMac you can do that and have dual monitors (spanned with a freeware utility).
Does 'entry-level' mean the same thing to you as it does to me? I think 'entry-level' means people without much computer experience who just want to use the darn thing and not fiddle with it. I think you mean people who want a cheap computer.
Noone will argue that Macs have a major cost advantage on PC's, but cost and value are two different propositions.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
If you bought your PB from an Apple Store, then the simple answer is: broken record time.
I'll spare the psychological theory, other than to observe that you must not "complain." You have an open and shut case, so to speak, of being burned by an arbitrary and capricious rule. Now, how to press your case?
Call the store manager. Calling is better in this instance because the manager can not afford to be seen "bending the rules for you" in "just this one instance" - the words that signify you have become too much of a pain to continue to subject to the arbitrary rule.
Keep politely telling the manager, and I emphasize politely, that you feel entitled to the upgrade and you'll be disappointed if you don't get it and yes, you understand the company's position (not "your" position - avoid being personal), but it's only been three weeks since you spent nearly two thousand dollars and you feel entitled to the upgrade and you'll be disappointed if you don't get it. Repeat as necessary. You may find yourself saying the same words as many as ten times. Just keep saying the same things, over and over. Corporate America practices this technique; so can you. ;-)
Call him or her during a busy time of day to increase your chances of success. Persist for 15-20 minutes. Unless you earn at least $387/hr, this is well worth your time. Good luck!
Just a tit for your tat.
[ReidNews]
I note that our consulting group recently extended machine lifetime to three years, while at most of our clients, it has been pushed out to five or more years.
Perhaps this is not the pentium 90 era, but it does show the importance of working well on older hardware. Apple may drop support for some older machines, but if each release gets faster, then they get a steady stream of revenue from users who have not bought new hardware AND they get users with those older machines up to date on software. Up to date users are a lot easier to sell new hardware to, as the software that comes with the machines is the same.
Scott
--- scott_ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu Java, Databases, and Software Magic
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