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Viacom and DishNetwork Battle On Air Over Contract
An anonymous reader writes "This weekend, Viacom stations began scrolling messages on their cable stations(MTV, Comedy Central, Nickelodeon, etc) stating that DishNetwork may soon be removing the channels from its lineup and urging subscribers to call DishNetwork. DishNetwork subscribers(me!) may have begun to see black bars cover the messages and calls to DishNetwork regarding the messages were greeted with a recording telling subscribers to call the President and GM of KCBS. These antics stem from lawsuits here. I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out."
They currently own two broadcast networks (CBS and UPN), and abuse of their holdings like this to bully a carrier like this will get them in hot water with not only the FCC, but the FTC as well.
Here's the list of channels that will fall off of Dish Network if there's no deal by 11:59:59 PM ET tonight:
BET
Comedy Central
MTV
MTV2
Nick Games & Sports
Nickelodeon/Nick at Night (Both East and West versions)
Noggin/The N
VH1
VH1 Classic
All CBS O&O stations (listed here) within their local markets. (Those seeing WCBS, KCBS, or WBZ as a distant CBS service outside of their natrual zones will not be affected.)
All UPN O&O stations (listed here) within their local markets. (Those seeing WSBK as a superstation outside of Boston will not be affected.)
KCAL in the Los Angeles area.
Luckly I'm with multikabel, small kabeler in Holland, wich has outstanding TV services(not to say cable). Missing SpongeBob would be a real pain :-)
DishNetwork == DirecTV == NewsCorp?
or am I wrong about this?
I have neither cable nor sattelite, so I don't really care to RTFA.
This sounds familiar to the situation where the owners of KRON [tv] in San Francisco wanted them to air a station of theirs from LA, and withheld broadcast rights to KRON until they caved.
We did without NBC for six months, Charlie [Dish] never caved. NBC moved itself to a San Jose station and we get NBC again.
Viacom probably wants Dish to carry additional channels or drop competing channels from their line-up.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
I'm a directv subscriber, and I'm seeing these messages as well. It scared the hell out of my wife yesterday. She thought it applied to us, and was really mad.
These kind of games are very annoying. Honestly, even if dish network did drop the channels, how long do you think it would last? They would either bring them back or loose a lot of customers.
I'm a Dish subscriber. I saw this message begin to scroll by several times over the weekend, and wondered what the hell was up.
Each time, a few words in, a black bar appeared across the screen to block it out.
This explains a lot. How childish.
Saw the scrolling message. Doesn't affect me since I am not a customer of said services.
They need to save their spats for the negotiating table instead of smearing their propaganda-laden feces all over my screen.
Sweet informative mod.
...two big companies fighting and suing, and who gets screwed? The customers. They're the ones losing the channels and getting black bars on their screens...
And who wins? The lawyers, of course.
libertarianswag.com
One wonders whether these calls for help actually get people to call in, and how many people have to call for the company to want to keep a show. I'd imagine some people see that and say "sweet merciful crap, first commercials, and now a telethon in between". Guess it's a good thing I'm too much of an internet junkie to care about TV anymore. :)
I still get those damn scrolling messages. Haven't looked to see if they covered them up with anything, but it's quite a freaking shame to have MY PAID FOR channels have a scroll-bar at the bottom because of a scuffle with an entirely different company.
The message itself was inflamitory, saying how customers should call Dish to keep the channels that "they [the consumer] paid for!" when that doesn't describe the scope of the suit in the least...
Although the ads were -directed- at DishNetwork viewers they were visible on other networks. I saw the "Attention Dish Network Subscribers" message when watching Comedy Central over the weekend -- and I have Time Warner Cable in NYC. I'm most certainly not who they were looking to reach.
If I had to guess, I would say that Dish is going to get sued for the black bar. I don't think they are entitled to alter the broadcast, but only to re-broadcast.
I wouldn't have really had an opinion - if they hadn't tried to hide the messages being sent on those channels. Now I'm going to have to side with Viacom (not that I am a supporter of Viacom in any way shape or form.)
The annoying crawls are not just limited to Dish Network. Viacom has no way to force a crawl onto only Dish Network feeds of their networks, so they have to put the crawls onto the network's backhaul feeds and therefore everybody sees them.
I've been told that DirecTV's call centers have also been geting calls from their own consumers who don't read the whole ticker and are wondering if they're at risk too. (DirecTV's contracts are not lapsing right now, only Dish's.)
Too bad it is CBS, which actually has some shows worth watching. I'd rather it happened to "is that still around?" networks like UPN and ABC.
First we have SCO suing customers (and another company did too last year) and now crap like this being pulled with companies using customers as pawns in their power games between each other.
Maybe companies are forgetting one thing and one essential thing. No matter how much money they have or how many years theyve been around and on top they got where they are by being a service to their customers
It sounds like neither of these companies are doing that any more. It's the death throes of business when distraction overcomes service.
nude mac desktop gallery
Seems rather childish of both companies, if the headline is indeed accurate. Perhaps there's more to this though? Hmmm...
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
You should ax for your money back.
The message was something like this:
DishNetwork will stop offering BET, MTV, Nick at Night, Comedy Central...and many others. DishNetwork subscribers, call DishNetwork and tell them you want to keep the channels you paid for.
It seemed to me like they were really saying:
DishNetwork subscribers, please call DishNetwork and tie up their support lines with furious indignance while we spread disinformation!
But the message had a complete lack of WHY those channels were going away, if at all. Anyone have some insight?
Dish Network is trying to hold the line on the wholesale price of content. DirecTV, by comparison, just raised prices for their main content packages.
So, if you want to get your content from the low-price supplier, you want to be with Dish Network and put up with these occasional squabbles. If you want a distributor that has a history of bending over whenever the prices go up, you go to DirecTV or your local cable company. Competition in a marketplace is good that way...
I saw these messages the other day. I found it a little annoying. I'm on Comcast cable, and I have nothing to do with this little squabble, yet I have to watch these childish messages scroll across my screen on several channels. It reminds me of what I have heard about ESPN consistently charging a fortune to the cable and dish companies for the privilege of carrying their channel. At least ESPN doesn't have Dick Vitale jump out at me during a broadcast saying, "Call your satellite operator and keep us on your channel lineup, baby!"
I've been a DishNet sub for 8 yrs now. To say I'm unhappy with the quality of their products would be an understatement. I'm ready to jump ship to DTV as soon as the HD DirecTiVo ships.
BUT, Viacom is the evil party here IMO. They're holding Dish and all of its customers hostage until Dish accepts unreasonable contract terms. I for one, don't want higher TV monthly charges just because Viacom forces Dish to carry some obscure channels that the vast majority of subs will never watch.
A la carte pricing would address this, but that's a whole nuther discussion.
you still have to wonder whos really is at fault. I've heard some estimates that Viacom was going up 50% in some cases in price. And we all know from cable that this is why our prices go up. Also the fact that they were making must carry channels (to have CBS you must also carry the Nicktoons channel) is also something to wonder about as well.
Not to meantion viacom trying to make it an national issue as well at the last minute. Im not saying that im sideing on echostar, but it does seem shady on both ends.
Anyone who has Comcast (like me sadly) has seen these ads.
If not, I'll go back to basic cable (yes, evil comcast) and forego the additional $30-$40 of monthly fees. That being said, it looks like Echostar is getting the squeeze from Viacom... I can't believe that Viacom is getting away with this, it seems like a petty power play.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Who would ever subscribe to Dishnet? DirecTV rules! Seriously, I've seen both, and DirecTV won hands down!
Those of us who want a package for $25.
These messages come across on DirecTV, as well. Apparently, they are smearing each other over everyone's airwaves. Personally, I don't care about Viacom's packages, so leave me alone!
--- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all..."
I'd have thought that with all the crap their Infinity radio division is having with the FCC, not to mention the Janet Jackson flap they'd be doing their best to stay off the radar screen!
I don't know whether these big companies are arrogant or stupid, but it sure illustrates why media monopolies are bad for the consumer.It's not an issue. So what if I can't get local TV on satelite. I can always put an antenna up or god forbid do without. Geeze how lame.
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
I might be subject to murdoch's propaganda, but at least I'm not gonna lose my MTV2. God bless Murdoch's UK monopoly...
Under the Monroe Doctrine. It's been part of the country's foreign for nearly 200 years. Libya wants to come clean to get back into the world, good for them. Ongoing Israeli support? We "support" lots of countries, even some of our "enemies." We provide North Korea with the most aid of any nation.
I love the camaraderie every slashdotter has for each other
Its a bloody shame that this is happening. I've found that the DirectTV box is buggy, or full of nasty "features". My carefully pruned favorites lists will have channels added to it at random times. I am often surprised to find that my 30-channel DirectTV favorites list has grown overnight to a 50-channel list with the inclusion of all the DTV informational channels and most of the QVC and shopping type channels. Does anyone elses box do this? I'd like to hope its a coincidental bug, but I'm the ever cynic, so I'm afraid its a very shameful "feature".
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Substantially better writeup of the issues involved here.
I actually work For MTV Networks,
I'm not happy about this either, but from I was told by management, Dish wants to pick and choose what they want to air, instead of taking packages. (ie they want MTV MTV2, Nick, and Comedy central but not Spike and cmt, Im not sure if the exact grouping though...) and Viacoms stance is its a package, they want some they take them all. This has started a pissing contest.
Over the weekend We started moving the location of the crawl in order for it to be seen despite the black bar.
This isn't just local TV. CBS owns a bunch of cable/satellite only networks that would alos be affected. This will wind up being a PR nightmare for CBS. Just watch....
DirectTV doesn't have TVJapan.
You're a super star, yes that's what you are you know it! Come on, VOGUE!
With all these CEO's of large companies acting like a bunch of spoiled children, I'm sure the media will paint this as big business greed screwing the consumer. Which may mean Bush will get the blame for it. Considering the number of high profile cases against the executives of large corporations, it paints a picture of big business gone wild and an administration that has done very little to curtail questionable behavior. I haven't kept score, but with the way th economy is and the current crop of cases, Bush needs to push the judges to clamp down on these CEO's and make an example of them. I doubt it would happen, but feels like party affiliation aside, people see big business as getting out of hand.
There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel, unless you happen to hate Jews out of principle. And that is the main reason for opposition to Israel.
DirecTV rules!
Their content is _arguably_ better (especially when it comes to HD), but the company is no better than the RIAA. Remember the smart card lawsuits? Why on earth would you willingly do business with a company like this?
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
Or we could just read more books...
But look! DishNetwork is putting little pieces of electrical tape over the publisher's names...
<insert witty linux comment here>
It doesn't surprise me that one TV company is flaming another with scrolling messages. What does surprise me is the fact that a bunch of 80's demo coders managed to get these jobs in the first place.
All you folks paying for some sort of Dish based access feel like cattle now?
Boy I sure do. If anything needs a bit of regulation, this industry does. People should not have to wonder if they can watch their paid for programming or not depending on the whims of some fat ass execs.
Do you think Dish will compensate their customer base? Do they even care about their customer base?
Too many programming choices are an either or bundle situation. People are stuck paying high rates in return for few real choices about their programming.
Dish and Direct TV both should be forced to carry programming on a RAND basis. Their customers should be able to choose what they want with a finer grained degree than they do now.
The bundled programming does not save any of us a dime because the 30 percent of good channels are spread throughout the bundles. This forces people to just pay for all the crap at once, rather than be able to pick 'n choose.
We are seeing this because there is no real check on the power these distributors have over both their customer base and those who seek to distribute programming.
Viacom is going to lose on this one because Dish holds most all the cards. People are going to wonder what happened. Dish will make sure and tell them their version first.
Blogging because I can...
for me. I hope they work this out...I want to switch from cable, but not at the expense of CBS and Viacom. I'd rather give all my money to the cable company than give a cent of it to Rupert Murdoch. When is DirecTV going to debut the Bill O'Reilly channel?
I'm the decider.
Now we have to put up with spam on TV as well!
Let's see...why sub to DishNetwork?
My wife like The Style Channel
My mother in law like the Russian channels
My neighbor likes Brazilian channels
My co-worker likes Itallian channels
My cousin likes their porn channels
I like the Football (Soccer to the yanks)
I for one welcome our new Viacom overlords!
By coincidence, the monthly live chat with Dish Network's CEO is scheduled for tonight (Monday) at 9 PM EST. Watch for it on on Dish's FYI Channel (which is somthing like channel 101).
You can bet that Charlie will have a lot to say about this situation.
First off, I work for Echostar. The main fact in this lawsuit is that Viacom is trying to raise the rates by 40%. That is 4 times the rate of inflation.
SubReale
Have all of you forgotten Direct Tv's business tactics? I for one would never switch over to any company that employs such methods.
here.
here.
here.
Here's a similar story of channel/content providers holding their customers ransom in order to re-negotiate a contract...
Sunshine Network (broadcaster of the Orlando Magic home games -- insert Magic joke here) used the same tactics with Time Warner subscribers in Central Florida. They knew Magic fans (yes, they still exist) would scream bloody murder to TW over this.
What Sunshine failed to tell their viewers was that Central Florida was the only market in which they were withholding the Magic games in Florida -- because they knew the larger fan base there could apply pressure on TW. In other cities, they just granted the cable operators a temporary contract extension until they could work out the renewal. But in Central Florida, they aired warnings to call Time Warner or lose the Magic games, and ultimately ended up going off-air for a while on TW. Not sure which side caved, but the Sunshine Network channel came back eventually.
The real party that got screwed was the Orlando Magic. Aside from having the worst team in the NBA, they had to deal with their remaining fans being pissed off by Sunshine simply because they let them have the rights to broadcast home games.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
You are right!
DirecTV is way better at suing its customers than DishNetwork.
btw,
Calling CBS, MTV et al the BEST kinda shows you might be better off picking up a book.
smearing their propaganda-laden feces all over my screen.
That would get HUGE ratings in Germany!
I left DirecTV because they kept screwing me. I thought maybe DishNetwork would have better ethics. As it turned out they both play the same games. The only real difference is DishNetworks product sucks more, especially the HD 811 receiver.
I, for on,e will continue to download my much loved television shows with bit torrent.
While Tivo may let you timeshift a program if you recorded it, bittorrent lets me have my shows almost anytime afterwards, even if I forgot to record them. Heck, in some cases, you can get programs before they air in the states.
If you'll excuse me, I must begin downloading my past sopranos episodes for a friend who forgot to record them (ie before they were aware of the show).
Tell them how annoyed your are that they'd try and win in the court of public opinion instead of following regular, non-annoying negotiations:
Viacom
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
tel.(212) 258-6000
fax: (212) 258-6464
Dish Network offers much more configurablity in their plans than Direct TV.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I have been watching DirecTV for a few years and I have no reason to ever switch off of them. Tons of channels, great shows, all is quality that puts my local cable to shame (although over the air broadcast also puts them to shame, they're terrible).
All DirecTV channels are digital and look fantasic. On my cable things look bad on the locals, on HBO, on any other channel. The varry from very mild (you have to be looking for it) to obvious (color fluctuations, 5 ghosts, etc).
And the best reason to get DirecTV? TiVo of course! With a DirecTiVo, you get to record TWO shows SIMULTANIOUSLY and watch a previously recorded show AT THE SAME TIME. And the recording is in pure digial quality, which means it looks EXACTLY like when it was broadcast (you don't have to choose "high quality" for sports, etc). And it even records the DolbyDigial streams (if they are there). It's EXACTLY like watching it live, no quality difference. Best of all, this is only $5 per month added to your DirecTV bill (not the $15 that all you stand alone TiVoers pay). Better quality, better TiVo, cheaper TiVo, lots of channels. What's to lose?
As for those scrolling messages, I wish they could somehow only put them on Dish. As it is now I get them on DirecTV and on my Comcast cable. You may be getting Dish customers mad at Dish, but you're getting everyone ELSE mad at YOU.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
and I got this message! GRRRRRRRRRR!
When I say Sunshine withheld Magic games, what I meant was they threatened to stop broadcasting a feed to TW if the contract was not re-negotiated. Since the Orlando Magic games were essentially the only programming on Sunshine at the time, the Magic game coverage was the primary issue.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
I'm seeing those stupid messages... and I'm CANADIAN.
The war is being played out on all of Viacom's feeds, no matter which corner of the globe they go to.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
As a DirecTV customer, and generally passive viewer from the outside, I just can't understand the ire that this is causing people that don't have DISH.
It's a banner that scrolls quickly along the bottom of the screen. It's not terribly obtrusive, it's not very long, and it made me interested in what was going on. It made me more than just a passive viewer-- I wanted to know the details. I looked things up.
Yes, my rates just went up-- now I know why. And yet, considering just what percentage of my time watching TV is spent on Viacom channels, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff. I'm still paying just $3 a month more than I was, less than the cost of a single DVD rental. Had they done the same increase just to keep crap that I don't watch (as opposed to the crap that I do), I'd likely be making my opinion known to them, both by directly contacting DirecTV to complain, as well as researching other options.
But yes, for now I'm willing to pay more to maintain those channels that I watch. Especially now that they're rerunning Beavis and Butthead on MTV2. :)
Software is like a goldfish - it'll grow to fit the size of it's bowl...
dual tuners, actual tivo, non-shitty dish pvr. duh.
DishNet would _love_ to sue it's customer, just as AOL has, Rogers communication has, and most cable companies.. You just don't realize it because they have been attacked over it.
:) I agree, it's always a good idea to pick up a book.. But we are now off-topic, and I fear we will be modded as such, how about if I throw in "Slashdot is better then Dishnet, and NO SCROLLING BLACK BARS on the bottom of the page!"
Okay, so maybe those channels aren't the best. But who doesn't love Beavis and Butthead? CBS - I still prefer them to CNN, MSNBC, etc..
And as for books, I actually read more then I watch TV..
That *should* save us!!
Mod +5 Drunk
Yeah Dish network for resisting Viacom's cash grab. Personally I think every one of the channels mentioned should be FREE to the cable and sat operators and anyone with a dish for that matter. They are commercial supported broadcasters, not pay channels. Somewhere along the line the rules changed and now we PAY to watch commercials. Screw that. HBO, no problem because viewer fees are the only way to have movies without commercials. But MTV and Comedy Central should be able to support themselves with the commercials the same way the traditional broadcasters manage to get along without collecting fees from the viewers.
Democrat delenda est
A real victory for mankind! Will progress never end?
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
sorry dude but are you one of those people with shitty cars and bumper stickers that say "kill your idiot box" (tv) or something? books are great but so is video and audio.
Me personally, I don't care about them trying to get people to stop stealing their service. It's much better than Comcast trying to outlaw my Tivo. I love DirecTV for two reason:
1) Constant Monthly Fee. In the 18months I've been a subscriber I haven't had one rate hike. Prior to that I was a Comcast subscriber for a year and their rates raised every other month. I didn't even know how much a month my cable bill was going to be. Atleast with DirecTV I know it's going to $39.99 every month.
2) Customer Service. Their customer service is hands down the best I've ever had to deal with. I had a problem with a buggy access card. I called them up and told them what was wrong, and within 2 minutes they already had a new access card ordered for me with overnight shipping free of charge. A bonus was their phones were being handled by Real English speaking Americans. They don't use slave labor call centers in India to handle their customer service, they employ Americans even in this age of offshore outsourcing. I wish I could say the same about Comcast and their horrid customer service.
O.J. Simpson might be able to get away with murder, but once he steals cable, hes gone too far...o urces_news_html
http://wcco.com/national/DirecTV-OJSimpson-aa/res
Yes, TiVo on DirecTv is pretty nice. So is Dish's 921.
Too bad DirecTv doesn't have a (shipping) product like the 921.
>> Who would ever subscribe to Dishnet? DirecTV rules! Seriously, I've seen both, and DirecTV won hands down!
How about because DirectTV has used the legal system to enforce its opinion that technology can itself be illegal? And that people who buy the technology for legitimate reasons - even those who don't own a TV or who subscribe to local cable - must pay a $3500 protection fee or be sued?
DirectTV and Racketeering
DirectTV's quality is meaningless when the company's business practices are dirt.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Dish has been great. I got it about 2 years ago with all equipment and install free including 1 PVR!!
I'd hate to lose the Man Show but it's time to say enough is enough to $40+++/mo for TV. And it ain't commerical free TV as was the big offering when cable tv was first introduced.
If my rates go up any more I am going to cancel everything and boost my Walmart NetFlix account to get 8 DVD's per week. Actually since I already have an account it'll be 12 DVD's a week!
TV sucks, says the dude named after a character from a TV show.
Taco, you just don't get it, do you? Charlie Ergen (Dishnetwork) is the only reason that we have ANY control over what is on Satellite. He earns your support and appreciation every hour of every day. It's too bad you don't know it. You really should grow the fuck up one of these days. Go get an education about Charlie, get an opinion that reflects an education perspective, THEN tell us what you think, you idiot.
They don't want their economy back.
40%. That is 4 times the rate of inflation.
The inflation rate hasn't been 10% since Carter.
As one poster above put it, Dish is doing the right thing. Viacom is in the wrong and Dish is not caving to their demands. I am a Dish customer and will remain one because I respect their commitment to the customer. In Minnesota we are facing a similar soap opera with the adoption (or non-adoption) of Victory Sports network. Carl Pohlad (the owner of the Twins) figured he could charge outrageous carriage fees for his untested new product and the carriers wouldn't balk at either the fees or the requirement that VS be carried on "basic" and not be offered as part of a premium package. Boy did he underestimate the resolve of stubborn minnesotans. I think Viacom is playing their hand just as poorly.
I've seen several cable companies get into pissing matches like this with X or Y media company. Typically, though, you see the cable company start flashing messages about how you, as the consumer, need to contact X or Y media company and harass them. Think this is the first time I've seen the media company turn the tables.
Either way, dishnetwork will get a lot of crap if they drop all the viacom channels (irate teenagers who can't watch the real world part XXXXV), and viacom can't afford to lose all of those customers from dishnetwork.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
> I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out.
Until this past Christmas, I had been a Dish subscriber for several years. When I initially signed up, they were offering a single receiver and dish (installed) for free with a 1 year contract. Nowadays both Dish and DirecTV offer up to five rooms and the dish (installed) for free, but only for new customers.
Since I already had Dish, the only way to get a multi-room system at no cost was to switch. This was the smartest move I ever made. I keep asking myself why Dish Network wasn't able to make their UI work like DirecTV.
For example, when I hit "Guide" on the Dish system, I'd get the current and next programs available while it downloaded the next few hours of the guide. While it downloaded, no Picture-in-Picture was available. If you scroll two far aheard, the download starts over PiP disappears again.
On DirectTV, I hit guide and PiP works and I have several days of programming available without waiting.
That is only the most obvious and glaring defeciency of Dish Network. I can't think of a single advantage Dish had over DirectTV. The only reason Dish had me for so long was because I always assumed they were basically the same. Switch today!
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
I just switched to Voom over the weekend and have to say they have a HELL of a deal going on. $10 a month for an HD reciever and $40 for programming including 20+ HD channels. I did this after Dish tried to fvck me over on the 811 deal they had going on for a while.
Keep Austin Weird!
Hats off to Viacom for this brazen and underhanded move. Not only did they post Dish's number and completely flood Dish's phone network with irate customers, they also hurt Dish by scaring off people who saw the scroll and will avoid Dish network so they don't miss channels. But I think it will come back to haunt them. They set the tone, and I hope they will remember who was trying to screw who first when those stations go off air to be replaced by a black title card with a Viacom's phone number urging customers to call them and demand their stations back. Dish has the propaganda power then, and the two days of irate people calling Dish will easily be countered by weeks of irate people calling Viacom.
As a Dish Network customer I'm willing to put up with a few days loss of Viacom crap if it means my bill won't have the obscene inflation that cable customers have to put up with. My Dish Network bill is $34.99 (only rising $1 in the last year) compared to the $65+ I'd have to pay Time Warner for a package with the channels I want.
In my eyes the cost of cable isn't worth it. For my viewing habits getting the highest level of Netflix subscription would be better then putting up with a $65 cable bill.
Viacom should get smacked for scrolling misleading messages to all the cable and sat TV networks. I am paying for content not for your propaganda.
As mentioned before, Dish Network subscribers concerned about the issue may wish to tune into "Charlie Chat" tonight at 9pm. Dish Network's CEO has a show on channel 100 or 101 once a month where customers can call in with questions. (If you miss the show it is rerun frequently).
--- polarbear
...not this Real World crap. Or change the name of the channel.
2) let Dish what they want to offer.
Personally I hate it that *I* have to choose from a package from Dish.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
It doesn't affect me anyway, since my TV fix is provided via Comcast. Any way to get Comcast to duke it out with viacom? The thought of not having to pay for a dozen channels of crap that I never watch anyway has a certian appeal.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
I saw this message scroll by when I was watching some MadTV rerun on comedy central, and I seriously thought it was a joke.
LOL, my friends and I even thought that was a clever spoof.
never mind that thats the reason cable and especially sattelite cost so much in the first place.... its ridiculous since probably 1/25th of the people watch bet but maybe 1/200th spike (random #s but you get the point).
They are essentially trying to blackmail the Dish network into taking a crappy network they don't want that is way overpriced. Screw them.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
This won't be taken away, will it? A friend of mine wants to know.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
It kind of makes those of us who never bothered getting cable just that much happier that we didn't. Now I don't have to deal with losing my favorite channels or my rates rising as the antenna is free.
Thank you, sir. I hate facism. I always take care to wear a blank mask.
Viacom channels on DirecTV also display the messages. I just wish that I wouldn't have to pay for commercials, and shit like QVC, HSN, etc. You should be able to pick (and pay for) only the channels you want, subsidizing stupid channels is anti-competitive and wasteful.
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
The wacky seasons, the reality shows, the lack of any script writing, 30% commercials... it all pissed me off.
I dropped my cable TV to the lowest possible tier and signed up for Netflix instead. When I'm sure my cable company can properly separate cable and Internet services, I'll drop the cable TV altogether.
At a DVD per day, it should take me a little more than 40 years to get through the Netflix inventory. No commercials, and I get to watch what I want when I want it -- the reason I signed up for cable to begin with.
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a USPS mail truck full of DVDs.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
than Dish network requiring me to pay dish networks for the obscure channels that I never watch? It's all great and wonderful when you're getting customers to pay for things they don't watch, but when the broadcaster puts it to you the same way, scream bloody murder.
Another interesting note is that the huge hike in fees is something in the range of 5% (from what i've read, sorry no sources handy). While a little bit hefty, if this isn't a yearly 5% increase and their contract renews something like every 2-3 years or even 5 years, then is this really that outrageous? Ask an old-timer what Soda, bread, and milk used to cost "back in their day;" prices go up, it's called inflation.
That being said, squibbling by putting nasty notes on my screen urging me to get furious and call dish networks, or putting notes on "BET.com" telling me how "Dish Networks is trying to take my BET away" and generally trying to make this into a race issue is simply put, CHILDISH. And covering their message with a black box could easily be prepared to blacking out a commercial for a Presidential Candidate because you think he's a bad choice for your viewers. Grow up, the lot of you.
Jamon
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
The basic cable channels should be paying the carriers to carry their signal. Every basic cable channel seem to have more ads per hour than their broadcast couterparts. I would think that the increased ad revenue would be worth more than a few pennies pre subscriber. Many newspapers figured this out years ago
I can't seem to find "Homestar Runner" anywhere!
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Now if I can just get my wife to see things my way...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
So then... Say Slashdot user A posts name/address/SSN/photo/etc of some poor schmuck on Slashdot, including a false accusation that that person is a child molestor and calls on the Slashdot audience to visit retribution on his head. This is pointed out to the editors. By your reasoning, it would be WRONG of them to delete the post.
There is no difference between this hypothetical situation and the one discussed in the article. One party has posted false accusations and a call for retribution on an information medium owned by another party. The second party has decided to delete this content. This saves them money by not tying up their call center (the costs of which would have to be passed to customers) and prevents emotional stress and consternation of their customer base.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
Apparently, Viacom doesn't have a problem demanding people call someone else. Here's hoping they don't mind Slashdotters contacting them and objecting to their behavior (which is not appropriate in any way).
Viacom Productions
Phone: (310) 234-5000
Fax: (310) 234-5059
10880 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 1101
Los Angeles, CA 90024
Perry Simon President Viacom Television
Sigs are like bumper stickers.
This is all about Viacom forcing cable/sat companies to take packages of programs. Am I remembering history correctly, but wasn't this what the hollywood anti-trust trials in the 30s and 40s all about... studios so big that they would require independent theatres to take 5 crappy B movies for every good A movie they put out? That was found majorly illegal....
but, having said that, one of the first thing Ronald Reagan did was to explicitly make it legal again in law. Looks like that little change that Gipper made for his buddies is making these problems crop up again (and again.. and again...). Thanks, government.... goes to prove once again that some regulation is actually good and necessary.
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
I would think that it's far worse for Viacom to tell all viewers (even other networks viewers) to call Dish support if they want to keep these channels. Dish is a generic enough term that I'll bet a lot of conncered people are calling whatever provider they have over the concerns, probably flooding call centers and costing a lot of providers a lot of money!!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
>being a service to their customers
That's why they make you sign contracts. They can do anything they want and if you want to get out of the contract they'll happily take your $300 dollars and cut off your service. Same with DirecTV.
You don't need to deal with "customer service" when customer loyalty is created the second they sign that contract at Best Buy.
I guess someone could say that they need the contracts to help guarantee income, but if they're providing a good service then why would customers leave? In the end its legal vendor lock-in and should be illegal, or at the very least they shouldn't have the power to change your service while you are on a contract.
I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out.
That's what they want. Dish Network doesn't want to pay more money and charge you more. They're fighting for you. If you can't see that, you're a total dick.
Think about things once in a while. It might do you some good.
Personally, if I'm forced into the situation where I can pay extra to have Comedy Central added back into my package, then I'll drop HBO/Blowtime to cover the difference.
I imagine if this doesn't work out, the premiumums like HBO/Showtime/Max, etc will also take a hit. At least when they show the same thing for the 50th time, it's at least funny on CC instead of ass boring on HBO.
I'm happily unaffected by these uber-squabbles, because I don't watch television. Read a book, get outside and go for a hike, go on a date, catch some live music -- why hook yourself onto the steady IV drip of crap coming into your living room?
They don't dare mess with premium channels and PPV channels (which we rarely watch) so they take bandwidth away from the locals and some of the freebies.
They better get some more birds up and stop this or I'm gonna dump locals and go back to my over the air antenna.
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
My year deal with Dish is almost up, and I got notice of the Voom deal - the only thing I dislike is the local channel situation (I believe you have to be able to get them over the air, which in the Denver market means no local HD channels for a while).
But Voom does have a great deal and I might just switch anyway as I would like a lot more HD content.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've been wanting Discovery Science, but Dish won't let me ala carte anymore, and I don't want the whole next package up.
Maybe if I call up hollering about losing the channels I paid for, they'll let me stick Discovery Science in as a substitute or at least an ala carte.
Viacom was the one who invented the big purple
"V of Doom" (remember the zooming V from the 70's
and 80's with the da-da-da-DA-DAAAAAAAAA timpani
music?). You know, the one that made us p our
pants and gave us nightmares when we were little.
I was watching and Spike TV also had a scrolling bar at the bottom...
Wow, it's getting to the point that you can't even be a whiny pussy anymore.
I mean how are you going to stick it to DishNetwork for this attrocity, when switching to DirectTV means supporting them for blindly sueing 9,000 of their customers for buying descrambling technology.
Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?
I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out.
There was a similar situation with DirecTV, the ABC Family channel, and the 700 Club a while ago. In that case, however, it was DirecTV playing hardball. IIRC, DirecTV wanted to pay less to ABC for the ABC Family channel, and threatened to drop it. Since ABCF is the cable outlet for the 700 Club, the issue of "freedom of religion" came up. So DirecTV started a scroll that said something like "The 700 Club is carried by a number of local channels throughout the country." A deal was eventually worked out, and ABCF is still on DirecTV.
There was also a nasty battle between ESPN and Cox Communications.
In short, these disputes are becoming commonplace. Thank goodness so many good shows are being put out on DVD!
Travis
Cox and ESPN had a similar type of battle. Both sides would take out ads for their side. I don't think it got to the point of scrolling messages on the channels, though. They settled their differences a few weeks ago. Good thing for Cox. ESPN is one of the most watched cable channels and I bet a lot of sports fans would have jumped to DirecTV if Cox lost ESPN.
This seems very similar to the music business. 90% of the songs on albums are crap, and I end up buying the album for the 10% that I do like, instead of being able to just buy the 10% (though online services are changing this).
At what point are consumers going to say enough is enough? Do you think a startup distributor could make it with al'la carte pricing? What if they used the internet to distribute content and you only had to pay for the channels that you watch each month? The bandwidth to the household is nearing a point where this could be done...
Why does anyone (*particularly geeks*) even give a Fark (rat's ass) about television programming anymore? I cut the umbilical cord several times, lastly in 97. Honestly the quality of your life improves dramatically. Everytime we get a house guest they flip out and do the dummy dance when they learn they will not be able to veg in front of the box. They always leave relaxed and changed. Why sit and be passively programmed when you can take control and responsibility?
The PHB and I had this conversation today; we can only think of two businesses where the customer service is *good* and way more businesses where the customer service is *awful*. A fuck-you-gimme-your-money attitude when things go well and a fuck-you-gimme-your-money-you're-an-asshole attitude when things go poorly.
Cell phones, SCO, the local phone company, the ISP, the bank, the government, the cable TV, the networks, Verisign, Microsoft, the list goes on and on of companies that jerk us around badly and then raise their fees, outsource our support to India and dump the quality right down the toilet.
I think customer service mattered at one time, but I think people have become so accepting of the shafting they get that it's disappeared. I also think that MBAs have figured out that customer service costs money (ie, you have to have good people with power to make decisions) and decided it wasn't worth it.
MOD THIS WAAAAAAAY UP!
DirectTV extorts money from people if they own a SmartCard reader..
DishNetwork and viacom play foolish "kids" games with the consumers.
and Comcast is just, well expensive, and could care less about it's consumers.
it's just not aggressively "bad" censorship. just because you've assigned an evil tint to a word doesn't mean you can change its meaning.
...that I have neither Dish, nor Direct, nor cable.
-jls
Techno-pagan
Thank you ! ! !
Some "enforcement" actions must not be forgotten. Poulson also wrote an article about it.
Those targeted by this federally-aided sweep were not pirates (as an AC wrongly characterized it) - but people who bought legal equipment with other legitimate uses, which also could have been used to help pirate DirecTV programming. And some of the targets don't even own satellite dishes.
<grrr>
Someone mentioned that the company was considering removing the disputed channels from the basic package, giving customers the option to purchase them for an extra fee. This would lower the price for people who don't really want the channels and give others who want them a real idea how much they are paying for them, a win-win for consumers IMO.
I have always wished that I could pick the channels that I really cared to use, while not having to pay for all the other channels I never watch. Something like a 30 channel package to be able to pick your favorite 30 channels would be great. Too bad everything nowadays is sold in bundles and special packages, not to mention that the basic packages have way too many worthless channels. Until then, I guess we all have to take the golf channel, soap network, etc. to have our comedy central, sci fi, etc. (apologies to anyone who likes the former channels, but i'm sure you can come up with your own example)
I have DirecTV. I'd love to see them (DTV, Dish, cable co's) break these blocs of extra-cost channels out as separate options just like the premium movie channels.
You want the Viacom channels?
You want the ESPN lineup?
You want the Disney lineup?
You want the Discovery/History channels?
You want Starz?
You want Cinemax?
etc. etc.
I like Comedy Central, but if it was the only channel I wanted among all the other Viacom garbage, I'd skip if it would save me money.
I'd also like to not pay for all that sports programming I never watch!
Since the content providers only get paid per subscribing household, they'd find out real quick how valuable their content is when it comes as a distinct package rather than scattered throughout all the current tiers.
ON DELETE CASCADE
Actually they do play music videos, it's just not that often (and at weird times like 7am and 3am). TiVo kind of solves the problem.
ustr: Managed string API with ave. 44% overhead over strdup(), for 0-20B
The SCO Group
c k/index. html
355 South 520 West
Suite 100
Lindon, Utah 84042 USA
801-765-4999 phone
801-765-1313 fax
Contact SCO online
http://www.thescogroup.com/company/feedba
Darl C McBride
1799 Vintage Oak Ln
Salt Lake City, UT 84121-6539
Darl's home phone #: (801)424-2006
Darl's office phone #: 801-932-5820
Email Darl: darl@sco.com
Interesting...I cannot find Viacom contact information on their website.
http://www.viacom.com/factsandfig.tin#contact yields nothing...no phone numbers, addresses, email, nothing.
Anyone know how I can email Sumner Redstone? (grin)
"You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
I wondered what that was about. Only noticed it when I was watching Nick-At-Nite.
I am tired of paying for all of these channels I don't watch. I don't need BET. I don't want the golf channel. Whatever happened to promising a alacart plan? Here's what I want now:
Nickelodeon
TechTV
TLC
Discovery
Weather Channel
SpikeTV
TBS
USA
TNT
WGN
a GOOD UPN feed! (mine sucks...yes I have bitched).
ABC (local afilliates please!)
CBS (local afilliates please!)
NBC (local afilliates please!)
FOX (local afilliates please!)
ESPN
ComCentral
WSFJ
Live WX RADAR
CNN
FOX News
MSNBC
a DVR
That about covers it. I also want to be able to change my line up as I wish (no contract...no more then a 24 hour wait). With adressable cable boxes, this IS possible. I don't want to EVER see these in my lineup:
Lifetime (ack!)
BET (I am not racist, but I ain't black either and I don't want it)
TCM
PinTV(I don't want to watch infomercials 24 hours a day)
ITV
MTV
VH1
CMT
Those are the basics. I have all of these channels, yet I only watch about half of them. Imagine what my cable bill would be if I only paid for what I want!
Dish Network is trying their best to keep prices low. On the other hand, Dish network should try to negotiate with Viacom instead of childishly trying to block these messages. Work it out guys! If you can't, then I guess Dish network will loose Viacom channels and then Dish Network will see a mass exodus. You both need each other...work that crap out and don't put childish scrolls and the other party trying to block that scroll. It pisses the ones who have already chose NOT to subscribe to Dish Network off and sours the ones who may have chosen your package from choosing it in the future.
Gorkman
I've been waiting for someone to do this.
I'm sick of having to pay for dozens of channels I never watch and don't want, just to get the half dozen I do want.
I want the cable company to let me pay for just the channels I want. That means no news channels and no sports channels. Ironically, most of the Viacom channels are ones I'd pay for.
I'd also pay extra for HBO, if I didn't have to pay for all those news and sports channels... but since I do, no HBO for me.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
TRIO did this on DirecTV not too long ago, and by "on DirecTV" I don't mean "the messages showed up on DirecTV but were meant for Dish subscribers", but that DirecTV was going to drop TRIO and they were running messages about it. Personally, TRIO is a big draw for my family, so when this happened we started talking about switching to Dish...but the deal got worked out.
Anyone wanna bet that if the channels *do* get dumped, Dish subscribes don't end up paying less than they do currently? }:)
If Viacom could sell the 30 second spot for $100k, then it costs them $100k to put their OWN ad in instead of selling it. It's an opportunity cost because of lost revenue.
INSTEAD, they have a feed that is being used by paying customers (other cable companies) and using it to push an agenda. When DirecTV contracted with Viacom, it was to carry their programming to paying customers (like me), not to carry their agenda.
They should NOT be able to use that space to push their agenda. Yes they "own" the content, but there are FCC rules regarding time for commercials, etc., they are supplying content to others...
The Telecom Act of 1996 had some REALLY nasty things that has encouraging MASSIVE consolidation at the expense of consumers. That was when they could designate television stations as must carry (so now cable companies and satellite companies would HAVE to carry the church channel), or require compensation for carriage.
At the time, the theory was that the CableCos were making money charging customers for cable, when 90% of the viewers were watching the networks... The Networks paid for a broadcast infrastructure and license that went unused.
Instead of Media companies bundled their networks with their cable channels... AND Viacom got an exemption to own two networks because otherwise UPN was unviable and would shut down... But CBS and UPN are REALLY cross-promoting and cross-licensing content, which has been to an unfair advantage there.
Look, I'm a Laissez-Faire conservative... but this IS NOT a free market, this is a heavily regulated market where the companies that can influence politician's futures via television converage have gotten the upper hand.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Okay mods, I have to call you on this.. Mod it did -1 for Offtopic - MAYBE - but -2? Then mod all the child threads +1 or +2 informative when they are about the SAME TOPIC? Hello?! Is the mod simply pissed about me liking DirecTV? Seriously, how can you mod that offtopic then when someone replies:
"
Their content is _arguably_ better (especially when it comes to HD), but the company is no better than the RIAA. Remember the smart card lawsuits [cbsnews.com]? Why on earth would you willingly do business with a company like this?
Where's my lobbyist? Right here. [clickthevote.org] "
They get modded +4?? Excuse me? I mean, I know your prejudice must show at some points, but this is looking down right stupid! Everyone that said something BAD in this thread about Direc got modded up!! Not that I really care about Karma, it's just it really takes the credibility from you as a "news source"...
Mod +5 Drunk
I for one don't like the bundling of packages of channels that Viacom is trying to force on everyone. I commend Dish network for fighting them.
Of all the Viacom channels the only one I would pay to watch is Comedy Channel, and that is to watch SouthPark. Maybe other people watch other Viacom channels, but why should I be forced to pay for them if I don't? Why should I fund MTV, VH1, BET, etc.? I can even do without CBS. They have no programming that interests me.
Customers should be allowed to choose. Go Dish !
Random TV terminology:
Technically this is a crawl; a scroll is similar to what movie credits generally do after the film. (vertical movement).
Crawls run across the screen (generally the bottom, but that's not a requirement to meet the term) - similar to a news ticker.
First off, let's get the correct channels that are affected.
BET - Comedy Central - MTV - MTV2
Nick Games & Sports
Nickelodeon/Nick at Night (East and West)
NOGGIN - VH1 - VH1 Classic
That list is from Dish network's website, and is the same as what I saw the one time I saw that little scroll ad on my satelite dish.
Okay, and since at least the Comedy Central is watched a LOT in my house (on both receivers), I'm wondering how much of a refund DishNetwork will give if they drop these channels because of the dispute. I personally think nothing less than a $10 drop on all the packages that will be losing this would suffice, otherwise why shouldn't I go to DirecTV? Sure, Dishnetwork may want to save their customer's money, but it does no good trying to save them money if you take away exactly what it is they want.
Remember, Micheal Eisner doesn't play well with others. He blew the Pixar deal, not to mention the fact they all but stole "Winnie the Pooh", and refuse to pay royalties on Peter Pan. This is just another one of Disney's attempts to extort higher rates from the people who distribute their product.
I saw the laundry being aired on stations on my DirecTV service as well. At least it's refreshing that DirecTV isn't involved in this. Cox Cable has also been whining about ESPN jacking their rates. These companies charge for content and they pay for content. It seems really inappropriate when they try to make the consumer feel it's their fault because the broadcast companies don't want to pay the fees the content providers are asking. I have no sympathy for Cox and other companies who seem to resent having to pay for the content that they sell to their customers and make the content provider out to be the bad guy. Bogus.
It's ironic that the companies complaining that they're being taken advantage of by content producers are also among the highest-charging cable and satellite companies in their industries.
But... I... must... get... my... South... Park... fix... (ok, there's always this place.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
Wal-Mart owned Dish Network, your service would cost $14.99/month for basic, $49.99 for everything, and any network attempting to extort more money from them would be left shivering and pissing down its own leg 10 minutes into negotiations. Bentonville is scary.
Unfortunately, all the programs would be produced in Bangladesh and Malaysia, with a tuner made by Akai.
Saw this happening a month back. Keep calling Adelphia. Kept getting either "technichans are working on it".
After a month these non-answers I canceled my Adelphia service.
Stupid way to do business.
I recently was in the market seeking a better alternative to the Cable companies offerings. I first tried to get Digital cable but due to my current resident arrangement, they would not sell me the service (no clue why, I wanted to pay for the digital service in a house that already had another standard cable service running) I was told I would have to get the current account to upgrade theirs in order for me to get it, so screw them, they don't want my money.
I next looked into the satellite offerings, after checking out all the local competition for selling these services, I choose one that had some special offers going, DishNetwork was my first choice because they had a better startup offer until they told me that I did not qualify for that special and that it would cost me almost $200 to get started with their service, oh and get this, they would offer me a $10.00 a month rebate until the ammount was covered. Needless to say I told them where they could stick their $200 up front costs.
I then decided to check and see if I could sign up with DirecTV or if they would offer the same BS, the price per package was slighty cheaper then DishNetwork's the ammount of Channels was more, and at the time of installation, if I didn't qualify, the most I would pay was $50.00, which is applied to the first bill I get.
I have lived in my current Residence for over 7 years, I have Established DSL/phone payments, Established Cable Broadband payments, but because I prefer to pay cash and not run up excessive ammounts of credit on CC's I did not qualify. DishNetwork did not want my money, Comcast cable did not want my money, to me this seems kind of stupid and self defeating.
And you people ask why someone would choose one company over another? IMHO DishNetwork and Comcast cable seem to think that they are offering you something special, when in reality, its the consumers that are offering the companies something special (namely their hard earned cash)
If firefighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do Freedom fighters fight?
I personally do not have one of these systems. Had dish, dumped it for exactly the reasons you give. Father-in law is old and does have one. This puts me in a position to comment as I can see clearly nothing has changed since I dumped my services.
Antenna only, buy most content on DVD.
Blogging because I can...
You don't know how good it makes me feel to hear someone else who thinks HS is just stupid.
Your comment makes sense. It tells me that we need some regulation here more than ever.
Both sides are screwing the average person over. It's all a pissing contest designed to keep the perception of value as high as possible for as much of the crap as possible.
Getting the top 150 is no deal. Getting 20 channels I really would spend time watching is.
Thanks for the info!
Blogging because I can...
Why do I have the feeling that even if they do drop all these stations, that Dish Network's subscribers won't get a discount for the missing stations that they are no longer getting and Dish is no longer paying for?
Just food for thought...
You are bitching because Dish and DTV are making you buy a package when you only want one channel? Well, what the hell do you think this squabble is about? Dish and DTV have to buy the whole package from Viacom just to get one channel. Dish and DTV want to pay Viacom per channel just as much as you (whether they want to allow you to pay per channel is different).
The reason Viacom won't do the PPC is that the number of people who will actively decide to pay for Nicktoons is much lower than that for Comedy Central... therefore it will be tough to support that channel. The reason Dish and DTV won't do PPC is that the cost for them to distribute Nicktoons is the exact same as Comedy Central. And they have to distribute it to everyone (just that everyone won't be decoding it), so if nobody buys it, why distribute it?
So, would you rather pay $2 per channel and only get the 30 or so channels you watch, or $40 and get 300 channels? I know I'd opt for the first. The problem becomes that lower rated channels can no longer support themselves. I don't know their stats, but I'm guessing Golf Channel is gone.
IANAL, but I play one on
please?
I know it's a pipe dream, but I wish there was a pay-by-the-channel cable/dish system. In my area (of L.A., mind you) the options start at $59/mo.+ for cable and $49+ for dish. Why can't I weed out the networks I never watch-- the Nickelodeons, PAX, the Family Channel, the Oxygens, the ESPNs, the dozens of Spanish-language channels, the thirty or so channels that seem to show nothing but WWII documentaries and "Trading Spaces" knockoffs... And just have a tidy package of the dozen or so channels I do want for $29?
Call your own cable/satellite provider and ask lots of questions about what those messages mean, and let them know you're very upset you'll be losing your channels.
If this causes enough angst behind the scenes at Comcast, RCN, DirectTV, etc, they'll tell Viacom in no uncertain terms what they think of these tactics. And they probably carry more weight than you or I just calling in...
I too support Dish networks. Fuse blows MTV away!! And if it keeps the bill low, I say fuck viacom.
never mind he said it ....
If the cost to distribute is the same, carrying lots of channels is the same as only carrying a few right?
I would also opt to pay more for fewer channels, sans crap.
If nobody really watches Golf Channel, shouldn't it be gone?
Blogging because I can...
Looking for ideas and suggestions on how to handle
the following situation:
Recently, a VIACOM executive, and partial owner
of a local nightclub, physically and verbally
abused a client of mine while we were patrons in
the VIP section of his nightclub. The event
stemmed solely from his arrogance. I will be
happy to disclose details to anyone that can help.
His actions were appalling and must be corrected.
Who can I contact?
>"...These antics stem from lawsuits here. I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out."
Switch to DirecTV and instead of the stations you watch getting sued, YOU could get sued... for $3,500.00 and on up...
EFF Coordinates Fight Against DirecTV
DirecTV Defense
DirecTV Sues Anyone Who Bought Smartcard Reader?
FreedomFight.CA
DTVLawsuits
Lakeshore Law's DirecTV FAQ
Overhauser Law
WUMarkus' DirecTV Legal Info
Not event he digital kind, and I saw this crap on SpikeTV the other day. At the time, I kind of chuckled, thinking look at how these people are interrupting my program to play their power games. Now that I've learned that the target audience didn't even get to see the scroll, it's a laugh riot.
"If the cost to distribute is the same, carrying lots of channels is the same as only carrying a few right?"
No, I meant that carrying one channel versus another is the same. Rough numbers might be: carrying 125 channels costs Dish $125, while carrying 126 would cost $126. Comedy Central costs $1 of bandwidth to beam to you and so does Nicktoons. Comedy Central might represent $1.50 in customer revenue for Dish (since so many people want it), while Nicktoons might only represent $0.50. Why would Dish want a revenue loser to take up their bandwidth?
They have to stream ALL channels at ALL times to ALL people. Streaming a single channel takes up X amount of bandwidth. Bandwidth costs money, so Dish would rather put fewer channels out there. Adding a channel that nobody watches costs them in bandwidth, but doesn't gain them any customers.
IANAL, but I play one on
As a result, let us also assume that Dish refuses payment to Viacom for the time that Viacom is off the air.
Both these assumptions are reasonable.
Now let me assume that this mutual refusal continues for several months.
Will I, as a Dish Network customer, see a decrease in the rates I'm paying to Dish Network as a result? Somehow, I suspect not. This is why I would switch to DirecTV if for no other reason.
So Charlie, if you're reading this, make sure that you pass along your cost savings rather than screwing your customers.
This is what happens when the media is owned by 5 companies.
This happened here in NY with Cablevision refusing to carry the YES network. It happened with Time Warner and ABC. The so called people's air waves are used to hold the people hostage during these little bitch fights over who gets to rip the people off more, the content creators, or the contend deliverers.
Toss in the FCC and their complete dictatorship over so called broadcast decency and well folks... we have one hell of a first amendment problem here.
The FCC has NO PROBLEM throwing its "DECENCY" crap down our throats and they dont seem to care in the least bit if ONE company owns the entire country's radio and television stations.
So what we do ? Well we keep paying our cable bills like little sheep. We'll sit there watching FCC approved episodes of Barny on all 100 channels
If the First Amendment had a voice... Right about now it would be saying "YOUR MOM'S BOX"
Opie and Anthony gone. Stern under fire. Bubba the love sponge gone (never heard of that guy)
The FCC is out of control. Everyone panders to the children and the angry mothers. But the adults get no respect. The adults have no right to ADULT entertainment. Whether thats bukkakeing 2 lesbian asian chicks or listening to Opie and Anthony.
We have no rights. Its all for the good of the children. I'm tired of children. Your children are not my responsibilty. And if you think they are... You could atleast offer me a fuck or two.
We all grew up sneaking pornos, dreaming about fucking the hot chick in math class... only to actually date the fat one in shop.
Yup... We're so perfect. Let them complain over $
I guess holding people hostage is the key to success. I suppose thats why the working class has absolutely lost its faith in this country and the dream we once called American.
The solution is to just take hostages.. lots of them.
Peoples Air waves my ass... Every year a handful of talented folks claw, scratch and, even suck dick to try to get on to those "PEOPLE'S AIR WAVES"
"Excuse me Mr Karmasan, I would like to be on CBS."
"I'm not Mr Karmasan... I'm a security guard, now get the hell out of our lobby before i call the police"
Peoples air waves.
Lets watch another rich bitch fist fuck a cow on fox as our government and corperate kings rape us left and right.
Hell yeah i'm pissed.
DishNetwork customers should tune into the live Charlie Chat on channel 101 tonight at 9 pm EST. I'm sure they will have lots to say on the subject, at least I am hoping so. I would hate to lose my Jon Stewart fix...
You need a 3-pickup (elliptical) dish, but then it is on channel 374.
They probably didn't have it when you switched to Dish though.
Want some cheese to go with that whine?
If you want to know an advantage, how about Dish never sued any of their customers or started filing blanket lawsuits against anyone with a completely legal and legitimate ISO card programmer.
That wasn't Dish. That was DirecTV.
I remember it because they did it JUST after I signed up with 'em for a year's service.
I'd picked Direc rather than Dish because Dish has funded anti-gun organizations. But using the courts to penalize purchasers of equipment that COULD be used to steal their signal (but has other legitimate uses) is one of the same issues as passing laws hindering the possession of guns, which COULD be used to harm people (but have other legitimate uses). And their improper behavior is more direct and immediate.
I currently plan to switch once the year's up.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I was watching DirecTV the other nite, and we got the same ads as dish network got. Scrolling acrossed the bottom of my screen. It was wonderous! :)
For those who find e-mail easier than US-mail, or to mail the top exects directly, here is some more contact info:
Sumner Redstone, Chairman Viacom International
1515 Broadway New York, NY 10036
Ph: (212) 258-6000
Fax: (212) 258-6311
Email: sumner.redstone@viacom.com
Mel Karmazin, COO Viacom
1515 Broadway, New York, NY 10036
Phone: 212-258-6000
Fax: 212-846-1980
Email: mel.karmazin@viacom.com
Does anybody know? I'm really curious now...
SIG: HUP
I should call my cable provider (COMCAST) to ask them to stop carrying the Viacom channels. The only thing they seem to be doing these days is display banner on top of re-runs of Star Trek. Why do they think it is ok to indiscriminately take ALL of their viewers hostage to their feud with Dish? Why would cable operators carry channels from a company which obviously cares very little for what they show their viewers. I suppose I should not be surprised that UPN, Spike, and other Viacom channels are some of the worst channels we receive on digital cable. I do not meanm the content (I like Stat Trek...), but the quality is absolutely terrible. The only thingthat comes in neat and clear is the stupid propaganda banners at the bottom of the screen. Figures...
Several states are looking to tax satellite companies, here's a page from Dish Network.
http://www.stopsatellitetax.com/stoptax/
The CEO of Dish Network spoke on tonight's "Charlie Chat".
The major topic of the show was the problem with Viacom and the following should be noticed:
- Apparently Viacom's use of the bottom scrolling message pissed off Dish Network completely and all of the language he used would seem to indicate it made them more willing to dig in and fight then before
- The CEO appologized several times but noted that they will most likely lose some customers if they lose the channel and that can't be avoided. In other words, more language that they will be digging in and fighting. Basically, they feel that can't make everyone happy... If Viacom channels stay with current proposed contract people who don't watch Viacom channels will be forced to pay much higher rates for junk channels and if those channels go some people will leave anyway.
- If the Viacom channels are lost they will reduce rates and carry other channels in their place (since they will free up capacity they will carry new channels)
- There was some mention that they might be considering lowering channels from higher priced packages into lower priced packages (some language kinda sounded like movie channels but they didn't say for sure)
- The channels are not gone yet and they are still working on a deal
--- polarbear
The channels in question will come down at midnight tonight apparently.
--- polarbear
Charlie Ergen, CEO Dish of Dish Network, just confirmed that all Viacom channels will be disabled at midnight tonight. He called it "extortion", and said that Viacom is being very unreasonable.
He also said that they expect to lose some customers to DirecTV or cable, but they have to draw the line somewhere. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Sadly, it is the customers that ultimately lose if CBS et al are removed from DishTV's programming. Dish will suffer next as there is an exodus to DTV or Comcast.
The comments here, at least those at the upper karma limit, seem awfully biased towards DishTV. Is Viacom raising their rate more than they're raising others? I couldn't find any information to that effect so I can't say that they are or they aren't, but it seems an important piece of the puzzle. At least in the heated MS/Linux threads you find people on both sides of the argument. Is this issue truly that lopsided?
Personally, I don't think that Viacom and other commercial-supported networks should be charging anything to be rebroadcast... but I think we all know that's not going to change anytime soon.
WTF!?! I ain't got no dog in this fight.
I guess they can't just send it to Dish folks...
Unless, Cox gets its signals from Dish? Hmmm!
Way back during the C band dish era I worked for a third party packager. I must say that Viacom's methods closely match Microsoft's. Whenever they would have a Channel that wasn't selling very well they would make you tie it to a more popular station. Back then ESPN was a big seller and VH1 was having some trouble. Their soultion was to allow the packager to sell ESPN only if VH1 was included. Basically they were forcing the customers to pay for VH1 whether they wanted it or not. After caving in to them for a couple of years we finally called their bluff. We told them we would be dropping Showtime and The Movie Channel as a result of their forcing channels on customers. We even printed up 40,000 bill inserts notifying customers that we would no longer be offering the channels and anyone with a current subscription would be refunded the balance and be given three months of HBO/Cinemax free. Faced with losing 40,000 customers and giving HBO/Cinemax a PR win Viacom dropped the bundling requirement for us. I cna't help but feel like Dish is facing the same thing we were. If they stick to their guns Vicom will cave, the scrolling message shows that they are desperate.
plus Daily Show, South Park, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, ... OK that's about it. But that's three examples of excellent original programming, which is three more than most channels. And the Conan replays are quite convenient.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about Cartoon Network though. Half of the space on my ReplayTV is Adult Swim shows (you left out Harvey Birdman and Futurama).
I am watching beavis and butthead on MTV2 on Dish. Maybe they worked something out?
mod the parent up, please!
Hey...I work for Dish Network. Here's a few facts and figures for you:
:P
(1) Viacom wanted something approaching $250,000,000 additional dollars for their programming. Divide that by 9.5 million customers. Would YOU bend over for Viacom and seriously piss off 9.5 million people at once with the biggest rate increase in recorded history?
(2) For individual channels, Viacom wanted as much as a 40% increase. Thats 4x the rate of inflation on a really bad day.
(3) Viacom's response to inquiries into their reason for the increase during a call I made to them: wanting to "Keep with industry standards." Which standard? Is the CEO's 2003 model Porsche no longer up to snuff?
So there's some opinion with those figures. My bad...
I wrote Dish and encouraged them to chuck Viacom.
Anything they replace it with is better, test patterns included. I also suggested Planete, CBC,BBC Canada.
Believe it or not, the rest of the world has TV!
mike
I actually have cable, but also saw these messages.
I was a bit suspicious. Reading this now confirms my suspicion. Dish isnt threatening to pull the channels, the channels (owners) are threatening to stop allowing Dish to broadcast them.
april 2003, also just recently, effective march 2004.
Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
Bongs are legal for "tobacco use only." You probably have just as many people using their bongs to smoke tobacco as smart card programmers to not decode satellite.
Seems a little light for losing up to one-ninth of the programming, but again, no way that they will go without for a month anyway ...
and here is why. people would spend more time on the phones (costing LOTS more money in customer service), and end up buying less programming. this would, of course, lead to much higher rates. meaning you would eventually spend the same amount, for less programming. sure, you would be getting only what you want, but you would also waste a significant amount of time doing it. making the internet a requirement shuts down to large a customer base at this time. especially since the less interactive people are, the more likely they are to sit in front of the tv. hell, many people relay on tv because they cant afford/wont pay for day care (meaning they could afford it, but they choose to spend money on other things). dont get me wrong. i would LOVE to be able to choose the programming i subscribe to on a channel by channel basis, and i would LOVE to be able to do it online. however, i dont think it is feasible at this point. sure, c-band may do it, but id wager they do not have NEAR the customer base of directv or dish. (18-20million households).
Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
I am not looking forward to tomorrow morning when my daughter gets up and can't watch her Dora the Explorer. She is not going to be happy, to put it mildly. My wife is aggravated because she actually enjoys VH1. (don't ask me why) As for myself, as long as I keep on getting to see NASCAR, Speed Channel, History, Discovery, and Sci-Fi channels, I could care less what they chop out of the lineup. The music I listen to does not get played on the radio or TV anyway. I suppose the jury is out for us whether or not we will lose the CBS affilliate we have. We get Dallas as a distant, and I have read elsewhere in the board that distant subscribers will not be affected. We shall see. If you have not already, check out the little blurbs the CBS or UPN stations web pages have on them. Interesting bit of spin and a fine bit of appeal to emotion fallacy writing there. Basically, my annoyance level will be driven not by the lack of stations, rather by listening to my family bitch about the lack of their favorite stations. Knowing my family, I'm not going to have a lot of peace until this mess is resolved.
I've been a happy Dish customer for years. I am proud of Charlie Ergen standing up to these jerkoffs. Because he has the stones to do what's right, our rates have increased at only about 1% per year over the past 5 years. Can any of you cable or DirecTV zealots say the same? I didn't think so. Dish Network is the only service that actively fights to keep its customers' rates down.
I might miss the Power Block on Spike TV, but won't lose any sleep over the loss of any of Viacom's programming - since 95% of it is crap and reruns of crap to me anyway (and that's before I figure in the endless commercials and the infomercials that occupy more than 12 hours a day per channel).
Would I be willing to pay more money to keep any of it? HELL NO! You get 'em Charlie!
I hope the FCC and the DOJ each break a boot off in Viacom's arse over these obviously illegal practices.
--
Out of order? Fuck! Even in the future nothing works! - Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis) "Spaceballs"
It sucks. It sucks when corporations can't settle there disputes without turning them into a pissing contest. It sucks when they have to drag consumers into it. I don't know if I think Dish should have "censored" the messages, but I certainly don't think that Viacom should have put them on the air (and for all viewers, no less, although I doubt they could have done it any other way...they simply shouldn't have done it at all.) I think it would be better for Dish to follow Viacom's messages with their own side of the story, but whatever. I'm a Dish customer, and I'm pissed that I have to watch it...it's not just a small bar, now they are letterboxing the screen, even narrower then widescreen. This whole thing doesn't even impact me much...I mean, my sister would be upset if she can't watch spongebob, and I tune into CC from time to time, but man...this is ridiculous.
Seriously, how can you mod that offtopic then when someone replies...
::This post was brought to you by the slashdot moderator's union local 912::
You're right, the offtopic mod was wrong. It should've been flamebait instead. The reply was most likely modded up because the poster successfully handled your troll by presenting facts.
2am central, and the Viacom stations are off-line. You get nice Musak and a little message when you select one of them. Sigh... BTW...Spike is unaffected, and it looks like your CBS affilliate is gone, distant or not....dammit.
I for one won't miss Viacom stations in the least bit. Most of it is crap, aimed at affecting our kids in negative ways. We've blocked some of these channels, and our 5 kids don't seem to mind.
Goodbye and good riddance, Viacom!
Midnight Where though?
They went all "we're sorry this channel is not currently available at 3 AMish Eastern
and during the opening theme of Daria too... those Viacom bastards
--- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
New York City (WCBS 2/WWOR 9)
Los Angeles (KCBS 2/KCOP 13)
Chicago (WBBM 2/WPWR 50)
Boston (WBZ 4/WSBK 38)
Dallas-Fort Worth (KTVT 11/KTXA 18)
These are the only ones I can remember right now.
Woke up this morning to Charlie on what was WCBS explaining that Viacom pulled the CBS local station feed into Dish. Time to make some calls to my elected officials.
Dish Networks has now replaced my MTV channel with a channel that actually has somewhat decent music!!!
(Dish is playing one of their Audio channels on each channel instead of Viacom's content.)
OR
You can't have your pudding unless you eat your meat."
FINALLY!! IT MAKES SENSE! THANK YOU SLASHDOT!
Okay, even that I agree with!! Mod it flamebait, that makes some sense, but it was definitely on topic!!
Mod +5 Drunk
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/09/business/media/0 9CND-DISH.html :
Negotiations over a new contract between the EchoStar Communications Corporation and Viacom Inc. have failed to produce a new agreement, and early today EchoStar stopped broadcasting the signals of Viacom-owned CBS television stations, including those in New York and Los Angeles.
In addition to dropping the CBS signals, Echostar, which at the end of the third quarter had 9.1 million subscribers, will stop showing Viacom's cable networks, including MTV and Nickelodeon.
A court order that had required Viacom to let Echostar air the 16 stations expired today.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
I think it's good that Dish fight Viacom on this on principle.
But, I want my Viacom channels back.
The one problem I'm having with Dish as a result of this is their spin:
On Charlie Chat last night he said they weren't afraid of Viacom, yet they blacked out Viacom's marquee scroll to control the story.
They've been exaggerating Viacom's demands (read the news articles. When Charlie made his case last night he was referring to old numbers and not the latest 5% - 7% being asked for)
_All_ subsribers are affected, but Charlie talked more about the smaller set of subscribers in affected CBS markets (the smaller impact IMHO) and less about Nick, Comedy Central, etc (the larger impact IMHO).
In all it seems like Dish is giving their subscribers the same "poker face" they are Viacom. I'd rather be truthfully and completely informed.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
This means prime-time specials on Fox, Fox Sports, and Fox News denouncing the Republican Party as the Communist Party of the USA.
I thought the Democratic Party had this role locked and wrapped for them?
Yes...
But one of the big issues is that Viacom wants that to be a $3/year increase.
In 10 yrs you're bill with be $30 more. Sadly, you're paycheck will likely be about the same.
I demand the previous post (and this one) be modded -1 TROLL not Offtopic damnit! Who is this "OffTopic" mod? Seems like He is modding _everything_ Offtopic! I demand justice!!
Mod +5 Drunk
From a really good source i can tell you that the dispute is not to be settled soon dish will issue a credit of a $1 if you only lost the viacom networks but if you also lost the cbs you will get $2 doesnt seem like a lot but according to viacom they where only asking for a 6 cent increase per month per subscriber to their contract so dish instead of giving the so call 6 cent difference to viaco will give one dollar to their customers it might not compensate but i agree with removing channels if dish is going to loose subscribers viacom just lost 9 million viewers
I support Dishnetworks efforts to step in on our behalf to prevent the greedmasters from getting Everything. Dishnetwork is also the only place where FreeSpeechTV is available. A breath of fresh air and news that acts like news instead of corp cheerleaders.
Never mistaken for cool!
I am more than a little upset by the fact that viacom has pulled their programming. Viacom says contact DishNetwork....and vice versa.
My view is that I was promised certain programming for a given price when I signed my dish contract. If DishNetwork had not pushed their price advantage and 2 year price guarantee in their sales literature, I think i might have chosen another provider. But, since they did push this so hard, I am hard pressed to feel sorry for them not having the forethought to get a long term contract for their supply of programming. I dont have a contract with Viacom, but I do with DishNetwork, so give me my friggin MTV back. Im sure it wont break the bank.
Rupert Murdoch is the one who should be taken out - not the GOP or Dishnetwork or Howard Stern.
Just letting you know that Dish Net is currently not running any of the viacom channels, but have been replaced with a new message telling you to tune to chan 101 for a explaination from Charlie.
I still want to buy per channel. I would be willing to pay a premium for this service simply because I want to keep the crap / programming ratio at a sane level.
Blogging because I can...