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Laser Cannons Coming to an F-16 Near You
dxprog writes "Reuters is reporting that the US Pentagon is designing a laser cannon that's small enough to fit onto a fighter jet yet powerful enough to knock out a missile. "The High Energy Laser Area Defense System (HELLADS), being designed by the Pentagon's central research and development agency, will weigh just 750 kg (1,650 lb) and measures the size of a large fridge." Now all we need to do is make fighter jets space worthy for that true Star Wars feel."
Will there be friggin sharks on them too?
so i cant shit anymore
Thanks!
Now if only they could mount it to a shark....
Let the Geek/StarWars in the earth its sky begin :)
When do the sharks get them??
My UID is prime... is yours?
Weren't they forbidden by the Geneva convention?
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A laser killed my first born child you insensitive cloud!
Now they just need to be mounted on those damn sharks.
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
Tom Cruise will have to go in a re-dub the Top Gun Movie to say:
I'm too close for Missles Goose, I'm switching to Lasers!
---
Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing.
Once we get them into space, will they make roaring, whooshing noises and manuever just like they did in atmosphere? 'Cause otherwise, forget about it.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Anti-missle laser?
Will it be able to knock out a missle coming from behind? Or above? or below?
Will it be able to knock out an ICBM? How about 100 of them?
Ah shucks, *goes off to read the article*.
And a bunch of them on the ground as a point defense wouldn't be a bad idea, either.
Fuck the military-industrial complex
Regardsz,
Kilgore Trout, C.E.O.
The High Energy Laser Area Defense System
So what's the other L for?
I swear, the military just loves acronyms, whether they make sense or not! And what's an area defense system?
There are 11 types of people. Those who understand binary, those who don't and those who are sick of this lame joke.
Wow!
OK, only 150kW planned, should be ready by 2007, but can shoot down missiles. There was a time I thought the Homeworld defense fighter was the most unrealistic thing devised. Maybe not.
4 out of 5 swinging dicks recommend more steel plates for their humvees, not another toy for the flyboys.
That's nice and everything, but when can I get them for my car?
But will it cook a Jiffy Pop container 20' in diameter?
That's right, I read at +2 and post at +1. Not even I care what I have to say.
Anyone ever come up with what the Aurora was powered by?
...mit laser cannons!
I'd love to see a pulsed-fusion plane...
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Imagine a beowolf cluster of these!
--ken
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It sounds like this laser isn't for blinding but for anti-missile defense. It isn't covered by the Geneva convention.
Does this mean they will get sharks with fricken lasers on their heads?
"If everything goes according to plan"
Since when does the government has a plan?
NO, NO! NOT MY EYES! AAAAAaaaarrrrrghhhh.
Okay, now I have to enter this stuff to avoid the caps filter. Talk about spoiling a joke....
If you post it, they will read.
They can put these things up there, but how will they really be powered? 15kW of energy is a lot to expect from any sort of battery system, unless the weapon can only be used once... Next they'll want to strap a nuclear reactor on the fighter planes to power the next version of the laser (150kW). And if they do have a way to power this for multiple shots, why isn't that same energy storage technology being used in my damn car so I don't have to pay $3 a gallon to fill up the tank?
Lets see what the Linux fuckwits will have to say about this one
Will these new laser cannons be able to shoot box cutters as well?
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I can see the headline now: Air Force "reflects" on decision to purchase sexy new laser, after a test backfires when attempting to shoot down a mirrored missile...
& yes, defending against laser is that simple.
how long until russia or china figures this out? you want to fly into airspace that can be dissected fifty times in ten seconds? no jet can outrun light.
HELLAD DARPA PAGE
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Pew pew or Brzzap?
Well ... 1700 lbs seems a little tanky .. but now we know how the military is going to justify the expense of those strength-enhancing bionic suits.
Oh man, can you picture it? A squadron of choppers with laser canons mounted on them, zapping up little terrorists in the desert? I love my military.
I dunno, something the size of "a large fridge" seems pretty bulky to strap to a fighter. Seems more suitable for a bomber somehow.
-- Conserve binary trees; recycle your email. --
Now all we need is a targeting system that can get close enough, hit a missile with its laser toy, and hold the beam steady on the target long enough to actually destroy it -- all before the missile is able to do its own damage. I'm betting they'd have better luck with kinetic interceptors that at least only have to hit once.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
The reference is so utterly osbcure that I am sure there is not a single person here how would have gotten the joke without your help.
Geminatron
You mean there really was a purpose for all those round rings on the barrels of the sci fi lasers? Guess you just have to be going mach 1 plus to work.
the terrorists are ray-shielded, so you'll have to use proton torpedoes
Well, we haven't had very good luck shooting down missiles when the platform is stationary. Why they think it'll be easier when firing at a moving target from a moving platform, I have no idea.
That's not to say that I don't think it makes sense. Air combat these days is all about moving your missiles close, firing them away, and high-tailing it out of there. It'll be interesting to see what happens if missiles suddenly become useless and people have to close to visual range and dogfight away.
From TFA: Great, does that mean it'll eventually get to the size of mini-bar fridge?
HELLADS
Advertising from hell? Or is this what the next generation of adware will be called? Oh wait, laser you say...
a 150-kW beam and capable of knocking down a missile will be ready by 2007
Hmmm, I'm torn.
On one hand, IF it hits its intended target, that is one less "consumable" missile defense that has to be manufactured and paid for--> not a "one and done" defense.
On the other, it's one thing when stray bullets strafe a school like in New Jersey, but oh my, imagine the holes this could leave.
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life
Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
How about a honkin' big jet turbine engine?
Actually, I seem to recall reading (albeit in a 'Popular Mechanics' or some such light fare) about the larger all-liquid versions. These things apparently derived their power from a chemical reaction, the reactants being stored in big tanks. I believe that was a big reason for needing a 747-sized platform.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
Sharks with lasers? Haven't heard that one before!
This reminds me alot about general granger who only used planes and almost all of them had a laser defense system. In all seriousness through if this thing could be used repeatedly i think they are better off in helicopters not on jets.
Forget laser cannons, I want my plasma cannons and fusion ball launchers.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
Just perfect for my UAHTV (Urban Assault High-Technical Vehicle).
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
::Puts on my highly-polished tin foil hat::
A link for you, sir.
Geminatron
Wow. If anyone has ever played the EA produced game Command & Conquer: Generals, it seems that EA is right on target.
I will be expecting anti-missle/anti-aircraft tanks(Avengers[C&C:G]), and anti-missle weaponry on military and commercial planes.
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Posting in an unimportant Slashdot Article Thread.
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I'm sure that will help tremendously when it comes to protecting soldiers and civilians from getting blown to smithereens by roadside bombs and/or suicide bombers.
and measures the size of a large fridge. Cool! Lasers have been used for measurement before, but I bet this is the first time the military has been able to measure your fridge in your kitchen from 20,000 feet. The small hole in the kitchen ceiling is a small price to pay for this protection from oversize fridges.
Now we just need to slow light down to 100 miles an hour and we can do r33l star warz.
Some versions of the JSF will have a laser system installed in the empty cavity used for the second engine in the VSTOL variant. The last thing I read on this suggested that the firing rate would be once every 30 seconds due to cooling requirements. I doubt any F-16 based system mounted on external hard points would be any better.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
That the Pentagon initially designed this laser weapon for an F-16, not the F-117, is due to the fact that the Department of Defense expects the Japanese government to install the same bloody laser cannon on its squadron of F-2's. Due to the structural similarities between the F-2 and the F-16, the cannon will not need any modification.
With a squadron of F-2's with fully operational lasers, the rather small Japanese air force should be able to deal effectively with the huge squadron of Su-27's and the anti-aircraft missiles used by the Chinese. The liberation of Tibet is at hand.
The flag of that liberation will have a "Rising Sun" on it.
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
F-16 operating ceiling = 15.240 kilometers
Minimum LEO satellite altitude = about 150 kilometers
I couldn't find any information about the range of the HELLADS system; that information is probably classified. However, TFA claims there will be a 150 kilowatt version of the laser by 2007. Any laser experts know if that power of laser can take out a target 135 kilometers away? Is the idea even feasible?
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
It's not clear from TA whether this is a pulse or continuous beam laser. My guess is that it would be pulsed, in order to carry enough energy to actually destroy anything.
But would the laser not need to be running to be warmed up so it can fire on demand? Would they just switch it on when they get near the combat area?
Also, targeting may only be a problem as far as moving that fridge around is concerned (well, the objective lens anyway, for want of a better term). Remember that it's a laser - at the distances concerned, it's more or less going to hit it's target instantaneously, or at most a few microseconds after being fired.
Corner Reflectors anyone?
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
I thought that vertical thruster was just a big fan connected to the main engine by a shaft?
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Now all we need to do is make fighter jets space worthy for that true Star Wars feel.
Why do I get the feeling Fox News won't exactly portray it as heroic when a member of the Iraqi rebellion clips the wing of Lord Bush's experimental craft, sending him spiralling off?
Bush, like Vader, is [allegedly] afterall a hotshot pilot. Granted, Vader didn't request assignment to Tattoine so he could hide from the clone wars and then rarely even turn up. But he did do a totally sweet photo op on a carrier on the day the war in Iraq was won - all those years ago.
I'm sure that will put an eye out ...
will the pulses keep travelling in a straight line and vaporize whatever is in front of them on earth?
i mean, the laser has to be powerful enough to work at a distance of several km, and a plane is only several km off the ground. normally if a missile does not hit its target it detonates in midair (raining debris on the ground), but this seems a bit more problematic.
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"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
...someone will mirror the laser beam to blast his face off. We don't need to get ourselves into more trouble with any country, even if the suggestion comes from a private religious extremist.
stop telling the mods what to do :D
Most, if not all of the US military engagements can be classified as offense, not defense. Why do they call it _Defense_ system, and themselves Department of Defense?
It's a misnomer really. They should have called it THFS - TowelHead Frying System, because that's what it will really be used for.
Cool if it works. But how does the laser know there's a missle on the way? And how does it keep focused on it while the pilot is trying to pull a 9-G turn? It would take gonads of neutronium to maintain a straight course while the missle is heading your way.
My F's only go up to 12
Now let me get this right this thing will weight 750 kg (1,650 lb) and measures the size of a large fridge. And they want to put it on a fighter jet? Something tells me this isn't going to work. I suppose if they wanted to put it on a bomber that would work. But then they wouldn't be able to put bombs on the bomber. I just can't see them putting it on a fighter jet. Without sacrificing something else...say fuel.
The whisper in your ghost.
HELLADS is HELLA-cool!
1.21 GIGAWATTS!
space is pretty cool.
Consider these pictures (google'd cache) of an Apache helicopter with a shark face painted on it.
I've come across some well-carried video footage
of Apache helicopters shooting at suspected "terrorists" in Iraq. One of those video footages was especially criticized because the helicopter pilot misjudged some Iraqi farmers on a farm truck; of which all of them were killed. In the video, the gunman behind the weapon would receive orders to "hit him" or whatever slang code-speak, and some of the comments from the crew and such upon a successfull hit would be "head shot." I'm not criticizing the matter of men in military service in general, yet down to the core there is a sense of pride. I have no respect for people that speak in such ways when they execute whatever commands; and the same goes for wing-art on their war machination. Such is idle speach, expressions of no value, and are subject to the support of propoganda that can be used against them. Doesn't anyone learn from the dishonerable protests durring the Vietnam and Korean Wars waged by the United States? Surely, even the pilots behind the "black helicopters" that conspiracy nuts are aware to only use the minimum of expressions, and that include black-paint of which no matter of pride or slack advertising of their presence and intentions to draw criticism other than "those God-damn black helicopters" (pun intended).
To bring more topic relevant to the Slashdot article, aftware from Sharks with lasers on their heads; Concerning the funds used to develop laser technologies; There seems to be an endless supply of currency available for which the military complex, even the PENTAGON, can dispose for weapons research. I remember about a year ago that China announced and berthed a new form of warship dubbed as the MISSILE FRIGATE. Yet, I distinctly don't remember China developing such weaponry at the debt of the people at China. But what do I know, when they are entreated and disposed as slaves; Can the same be said of the military complex at the United States, as described by then President of the United States, Dwight D. Eisenhower? The alleged national debt and the public debt is not being criticized enough. I only hope such technology can be developed casually, without such "debt" looming over the heads of the people.
Every decade there is a war the United States is involved with, usually without the United States or CONGRESS declaring war, and the people are never allowed to recover from such debts alleged to them from participating in the subjective war. This surely falls into the financial scope of promisory notes, for which debt is slowly discharged by promissing to pay said debts when there is not enough money to pay such debt at the moment; does this not forecast the future of the people as economic slaves to military technology development? President of the United States, Andrew Jackson, was the last that sought to pay down the debt so far as a positive US $30,000.00, but war is always the excuse to bring the people further in debt. It's bad enough to militarily compete with China, a country where the people outweigh and outnumber Americans ten fold. It takes a lot of "balls" to try to compete with such a larger population technologically; Could this be the reason of DRM, to built an equivalent Great Wall over mastered information, so as to prevent what little technology and information from leaking into competitors?
Lasers--sharks... uhm, yeah. I would've deleted the above, now realizing I am within the Off-Topic classification. Yet, at least I am honest and admit such. Moderate me, yet I am not a troll.
without prejudice
1.21 GIGAWATTS!
... cause the extension cord off the back of the F-16 sure doesn't run that far ...
...
...
Now, the next question someone should be asking, is where the heck do you get that kind of power supply
Maybe we are seeing why in Evangelion they had power couplings they had to attack their Giant Robots (ok, beasts whatever) to, and they had massive power cables to power their laser rifles
Methinks we'll be begging the French to let us hook up to their Commercial Size Fusion Reactor to power these
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Can we get a "HELL YEAH!"?
Infra-red lasers do not get reflected by shiny things. Most military class lasers operate in the IR spectrum.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
This story reminds me of the ABL...
e s/aviation/12380334.htm
Latest article I could dig up:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/business/industri
Website about the ABL:
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/abl/
I want my! I want my! I want my Eee PC!
Those Pentagon folks need to get reined back significantly. Human mind dreams up endlessly more gadgets, and what is it for? Destruction!
US war budget needs to be cut back by 90 %. Money needs to spent elsewhere: education, environment, infrastructure.
If those stupid polititians cannot get along, they should get locked up in a room with water and bread until they sort out their issues and not suck everyone else. Smart people get along.
But you wouldn't see the beams. Especially in space...
So you're saying that in prior wars, the enemy didn't try to blow up vehicles with boobie traps?
The cake is a pie
Well, at least the stray light doesn't leave as much of a mess as spent uranium does. And it doesn't fall back to earth if you shoot it up in the sky.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
In addition to shooting missiles out of the sky, it would also be very effective at zapping people. It's much easier to shoot a beam of light at someone on the ground than it is to fire a hellfire, maverick or JDAM. It moves at the speed of light.
With 10 of those 1kW power supplies :-P.
"May the days be aimless. Let the seasons drift. Do not advance the action according to a plan."
Lasers are for manufacturing, bouncing light off the moon, femtosecondizing some proteins folding, AND NOTHING ELSE.
the Bad Guys will buy lots of Disco Balls.
That and giant enormous mirrors and tin foil hats.
Oh, come on, did you actually think noone would think of it?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
by transferring it to a liquid that has very high specific heat - this lets them run an array of solid state lasers for about 15-60 seconds, plenty of time to engage & kill an incoming. They then have to cool the liquid to recycle for another engagement. Since they have high velocity air, it doesn't take long to get the liquid temperature back to what's needed to fire the diode array.
This would make a great airport area defense weapon against MANPADS. Except for the odd erroneous shot at the aircraft....
There are several things to be considered if portable laser weapons are available.
1.The laser will obviously be tied into the plane's radar and computer, enabling it to track up to 20 targets at once, and fire at the most dangerous one.
2.The laser will probably not be capable of firing numerous times second in the beginning. That will probably improve with time though.
3.In the beginning, a saturation attack by many missiles would overwhelm the missile's cooling system, but since in air combat their are not that many missiles fired, it would certainly give the edge to the plane with one.
4.Lasers are easily impeded by atmospheric disturbances, like smoke, clouds etc. A good way to shield targets would simply be to make a lot of smoke around them. Enemy planes could do this quite easily to defend themselves.
5.The computers used these days would annull any dogfighting. The computer's ability to track and fire at targets is far far better than any human could be. The result would most probably be drone aircraft firing at one another with the winner being the one with the more powerful laser and better computer.
6. In addition to the points in number 5, I'm sure this would make advances in radar and thermal stealth important in order to avoid the computer's radar and thermal sensors and allow one's craft to get closer to the enemy. I'm sure that ablative shielding on future drone craft will also eventually become important in order to absorb laser burns. Probably missiles would also be coated in these materials.
7.Remember that this is all fine for conventional warfare but for guerilla warfare this will still be useless. A huge laser is no more effective against suicide bombers than a cannon or gun is.
In addition to our favorite Libraries of Congress, metric buttloads, and the like, we now have... large fridges.
As in: your momma's so fat, her volume must be five large fridges!
"May the days be aimless. Let the seasons drift. Do not advance the action according to a plan."
So is liquid another name for chemical?
From what I understand, DARPA spent most of it's laser money in the 80's and early 90's on chemical lasers because they are capable of much higher energy. But the drawback is that they use up their fuel and require huge cooling systems. The truck-mounted lasers and the one in the 747 are chemical lasers.
And obviously a solid-state laser just needs electricity so that is a lot easier to come by on a battlefield, but solid state lasers have been limited in their power, and have to be pulsed. If a 150Kw solid state laser could be fit to a small plane, you would have a very effective weapon (outside of smoke, clouds, rain) that would not need reloading and wouldn't miss very much.
So is this new liquid laser a hybrid of the two, or is it a cousin to the solid state laser, or is it an entirely new beast that deserves it's own species? And does it need to be reloaded?
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
If they upgrade the airstrip in Gitmo it wont matter.
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
Is this the beginning of the Death Gliders from Stargate?
humans respond very quickly to Audio signals.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Satalite detection system will feed aircraft location information to the fighter, thus allowing the to shoot laser at thing vrom a long away, and at the speed of light.
Something like this could end military aircraft needs. Nothing can respond faster then the speed of light. After all, what is a jet beside a missle that returns to an airfield?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
but won't people just start putting mirrors or other highly reflective surfaces on their missiles?
The typical claim is that SS109 bullets are dynamically unstable in flesh, though they are stable in flight, so they begin to tumble upon entry, doing lots of damage along the way.
Personally, I find this claim doubtful, though I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
American military pilots have gonads of neutronium.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
High Energy Laser Area Defense System
...or
I think Gasseous Optical Nuetral Area Defense System would have been a better name. What do you suppose would instill more fear in the enemy?
"Run for your life! The HELLADS are coming!"
"Run for your life! The GONADS are coming!"
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
If Europe would pay back the US for are protection, then we could diverta Lot of tax payer money into other things.
Do you think the stability in Europe happened to coinicide with a large non-european force baby sitting everybody? europe used to be as bad as the middle east.
As to your question, a powerfull laser could also make air warfare obsolete.
A lot of money spent on 'destrustion' is actualy saving lives because it is incredibly more accurate then technology used 60 years ago.
Think, then talk.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
the originals had a round so long it would tumble and seriously maim someone. So they where changed.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You are in _part_ correct about current _deployment_ of said laser technology. However, if you're under the mistaken notion that we don't have _older_ laser systems (much less current ones) to knock out satellites, you couldn't be more wrong than Panama Jack wearing argyle socks. We've been knocking out satellites (namely Russian ones) since the mid 80's...
That is all.
I think most clouds are sensitive. That's just a guess by observing them though. I mean, look at Enya videos, they have fluffy dreamy clouds. Then there are the insensitive ones like that Lakitu guy, which I'd say was the target of the "insensitive cloud" statement in question.
A house filled with popcorn?
Who cares what the Geneva convention says about lasers. Everyone knows that the exhaust ports will be ray shielded, so they are already an irrelevant technology. The important thing is who is research on proton torpedos comming along?
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
but at the speeds the star wars fighters must be going, a 90 degree turn wouldn't be wise.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Hell, we need to put them one one of these:
:-P
http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/f104.html
HAHA it's a Starfighter! Get it? HAHAHAHAHAHA
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Let's make sure we keep the blue lasers for the good guys and only sell/export red ones to the bad guys.
Sounds like a an anti-satellite platform to me.
Without Artoo, it's NOT an X-wing!
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I went to U.S. Airforce Space Readiness Briefing while I was a Congressional intern this summer.
Lasers were covered and I had a brief chat with the Air Force representative after the briefing.
The USAF is sticking lasers in 747's and the army is testing ground-based systems.
The aircraft-based lasers cannot inflict any physical damage. They are powerful enough to scramble electronics. The goal is to target a missile shortly after it is launched so that its guidance systems fail and the missile lands in the enemy's territory, never reaching its target (us). Their goal is to use this as a powerful deterrent by making it very risky to launch missiles.
The ground-based systems can inflict physical damage, but are nowhere close to being airborne (they're much too massive). They are, as I was told in July, still "in the lab." (I later saw a full-page ad in "The Hill," a capitol hill newspaper, promoting Lockheed Martin's ground-based laser systems as though they were about ready. I'll trust the USAF officer's discussion more than the corporate advertisement.)
A key misunderstanding of lasers is in the kind of damage they inflict. Lasers will poke holes through objects but do not cause a target's destruction or explosion -- however, shooting through or over-heating a target's fuel tank will cause an explosion. And of course, to re-emphasize my major point, we don't have airborne laser cannons --- their goal is basically to inflict a kind of EMP-like damage to missiles. I asked about getting these things into UAV's and was told they'd love to do it, but don't expect anything for another 50 years.
So what happens if the (intended target) missile's surface is extremely reflective?
(Honest question, I don't know...)
...pass me a mirror, it's the darned USAF again!
... that it'll cost a fortune and wont work worth a damn.
You can minimize diffraction over distance with a Bessel beam. Maybe someday we'll have Bessel beams with a Rayleigh (equivalent) range of 150 km--I don't follow the research closely enough to know for sure. Slashdot needs more OEs.
This mirror will have to have very aggressive cooling.
750kg sounded heavy for an F16 to me, but after looking at this, it actually seems pretty reasonable.
ps. clicking this link will likely open up a permanent record for you with homeland security - gotta love the patriot act.
ôó
I don't know about two sharks, but a large school of angry Sea Bass could do the job.
Monty Python would use an unladen swallow.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Is it just me or do you think that someone was just watching "Real Genius" and turned it into a news story? I mean, they're talking about a "chemical laser, but in solid, not liquid form." (that's a quote from the movie and almost identical to the press release). Also they talk about achieving an "order of magnitude." It's like they turned that one scene into an article. So, I guess after everyone goes out drinking to celebrate, Laslo will convince them to sabotage the whole project...
Not only is 15kW enough to knock out a missile, it's enough to burn holes in things like fuel tanks, etc. of opposing aircraft.
But finally we're stepping into weapons of the 21st century and beyond. All I want is my portable 1kW laser. Actually doesn't even need to be that powerful. The 150W CO2 lasers I once used could cut through metal. I imagine they'd cut through human tissues at much lower power levels. Hell, the 25W laser engravers could do metal too.
Imagine the look on the face of a perp when you announce that you aren't just going to shoot him/her but vaporize them.
Caterpillar 1750 kW Standby Diesel Generator and the starting bid is only $240,000.00. It looks a little bigger than an F16, but it will get you started fer sure. Ebay, baby!
Its the perception of nature as a 'killer' world, red in toooth and claw, with its roots in 18 century England, that's part of this problem.
Symbiosis plays a much larger role, right down to our own cell structures, that competition. Things have a habit of trying to find 'unoccupied' niches rather that directly compete. That's a decidedly human trait.
I'm not saying that there's no predation, there is and it tastes good, but there's far less competition than you think.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
and, if they used an X-Ray laser, you'll get Hell(ad) from a nurse for not wearing a lead apron.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I wonder how well it will cook popcorn?
This is the most blatant karmawhore I've ever seen on Slashdot.
"See, the thing about soldiers is, they need to kill people"
You don't know many soldiers do you? Yours is a fuzzy sentence but it's hard to read it in any other way than that you're saying they have some basic need to kill out of their own volition. Some people do have such a need but those aren't fit for anything really, least of all things military duty (yes they get screened out and denied). Does killing and war break some people? Of course, but extremely few have a "need" to kill, quite the opposite.
If you have a society that makes every soldier into a "must-kill" caricature of the human beings they are well then the military is truly the least of your problems. The only society I know of where this could be even remotely close to being the case is North Korea (and even there it's unlikely that even if they try to do it they actually succeed).
Soldiers are human and it doesn't make sense to take the "human" out of them - it is counterproductive and realized to be so by just about everyone associated with any modern military force (which excludes people who think children suicide bombers is a good idea or communism and facism which instigated programs like Hitlerjugend and Red Pioneers).
"The answer to this paradox, IMO, war is simply incompatible with civil society"
You're beating Jacques Chirac, the master of the art of speaking without saying anything, at his own game here - are you a politician?
FYI I'm a former military officer in a european country and I can assure you that my opinon on this is not in the minority.
I believe the Joint Strike Fighter program was already considering the concept of a laser-mounted weapon. As I recall, the Marine version of the JSF has a large ducted fan in the center to provide VSTOL capability. Since the Air Force and Navy wouldn't be needing that ducted fan, that large space in the middle of the fuselage, with substantial power already provided in place by a driveshaft from the engine, would make a natural selection for implementing a high-energy laser weapon.
When we were kids, we were right!!!
When fired, the cannon goes BEW! BEW!
Did anyone else read that as, 'Laser Cannons Coming to a Shark Near You' ?
Oh wait this is slashdot...
Now all we need to do is make fighter jets space worthy for that true Star Wars feel.
No, now all we need to do is slow down the laser beam enough to see the pulse traveling through the air for that true Star Wars feel.
There were more traffic deaths in the 'States that there were casualties in the WAR in Iraq.
But the toll of the PEACE is Iraq is just a tad more that the American population would like.
Its a good thing that Bush is a lame duck. I don't think he could win reelection again the way things are there and here right now.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
If someone's got this thing mounted on his F16, a laser device that can shoot flying objects... I just can't see being his wingman.
-JDF [Whose karma just got -1 Pun'd to death...]
it is likely that they are using diode pumped fiber lasers - likely from IPG in Oxford MA. Fiber lasers are putting out near diffraction limited spot size at 20kW.... this is what they are putting out the fromt end commercially for materials processing... so lust imagine what they are doing for black mil type stuff.
... Shiner. go figure
Also worth talking a look at the DARPA program called SHEDS - this is a drive to develop Super High Efficiency Diode Lasers.... they are shooting for 80% currently a company called Alfalight is in the 73? efficient range... meaning that 73% of electrical power going into the diode comed out as friggin laser beam!
Anyhow these diodes are used to pump a doped fiber which put's out a highly convergent beam. to boot the wavelength at around 1000nm absorbtivity is high, and doesn't get a lot of atmospheric interference.
back in 2000 the took John Dalton (Cinton's Sec of the Navy) as their president - this has to be helpful when trying to score mil contracts
read something about these type lasers being used to kill mines form hummer mounted unit much lower power rating but gives some clue what is posible with higher efficiency lasing systems.... sweet application.
weirder still IPG's lead sales guy is "Bill Shiner"
-Swanson LPI
" Now all we need to do is make fighter jets space worthy for that true Star Wars feel."
Need to develop a space program first!
BULLSHIT on that one? Seriously when will they start thinking a little more realistic in their approaches.
Yes, I said it.
You're thinking the Russian 5.45mm x 39mm round I think.
Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
The fighter jet may be sexier but it's already packed with as much stuff as possible in an aerodynamic shell, so fitting a refrigerator size laser into it would be a lot harder than just mounting it on one of those large transport helicoptors.
Then all they would have to do is line them up in formation and shoot down all the missiles and artilery that is shot at the most important bases and troops.
The Defense Department is wasting valuable taxpayers' money. Does no one at the Pentagon remember that GI Joe (the code name for America's highly-trained special-mission force) *and* Cobra (a ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world) had fighter jets with lasers *twenty years ago*?!? Not to mention laser tanks and laser pistols. Heck, even Shipwreck's old fashioned-looking flintlock shot laser beams. There are even highly-detailed blueprints available on the Web!
Yet again, the government forgets that it had fighter jets (with lasers) in space twenty years ago! Sheesh!
Everything the US did in Europe in the last century was seen as in the best interests of the US. Many Europeans found that that suited them just fine and have been forever grateful. But to suggest that 'Europe' has any obligation to the US is stupid. There were no US towns firebombed. It wasn't US citizens of being herded into camps outside Tulsa. Tanks didn't obliterate an entire county in Virginia.
Fact is, 'Europe' knows what all that shit is about. And too many in the US don't have a fucking clue. Tie a yellow ribbon, man.
As to your question, a powerfull laser could also make air warfare obsolete.
You do realize that the same was said for gunpowder. And the Gatling gun. And the battleship, aeroplane, tank, gas, a-bomb...
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
They need a +1 Stupid funny, seriously. That's the kind of thing a little kid says when he's playing army with his friends. "Dude, I shot you!" "No you didn't, I used my turbo boosters, your bullets can't hit me!", "No dude, I shot you with my LASERS!", "Well I had a mirror and I shot it back at you!", "NO FAIR!"
The Yanks must be stopped. They are stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. But what's worse, they hate our 'way of life'. Also remember that they are ruled by an evil dictator who went against the people's will and stole the 2000 elections with the help of his cronies in the supreme court. The world would be a better place without him.
... ...
Keep stockpiling, Yanks. God knows, that's what the world needs: more weapons of mass destruction. Oh yeah, they're only for defense . How could I be so anti-American to suggest that these will in fact be used as weapons of mass destruction. They are of course weapons of love and understanding, and will only be used to save the cute white bunnies and the church picnic from the evil Arab masses and their hate, and their WOMD, and their
...make a keen sound?
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
That's already been done!
For those of you who don't get it, one of the nicknames of the F-16 is "Viper".
Yet another post that won't be seen and enjoyed because of my bad karma....
"Soldiers need to kill people"
I believe what the poster intended was: "Soldiers need the capacity to kill people" - not that there is a pathological MURDER DEATH KILL theme to the ranks. They need good tools.
Soldiers kill people - that's why they're there, that's why they have those boom-sticks. Who they are told to kill and where is a matter for polticians, representing (hopefully) their country's and citizen's best interests. Armies impose the will of others onto people who do not agree via deadly force. They are the force arm of governments, who maintain a monopoly on violence. This is pretty basic stuff, but washed over in fuzzy recruitment campiegns and oft misunderstood here.
Although your interpretation of his remarks does shed some light on your own concerns.
Human conflict is as old as the ages but for the past few generations the reality of such has been removed from the experience of most people. In matters of war, I want my side to have the best, biggest, and most effective killing technology available. I also want my government to use said killing technology as an absolute last recourse.
..don't panic
This is yet another example of the many we've had over the past few years that Pentagon planners are not big on carefully thinking things through and making sure the solution fits the problem (let alone what the problem is, or if there is one to begin with). This laser weapon is the sort of thing a foolish and impulsive little boy would ask Santa Claus for, and throw a few tantrums to make sure he got it. After Christmas and after seeing what an idiotic toy it is, into the closet it goes, much to the chagrin of his parents who got conned into buying such an expensive and useless toy.
How many poor bastards will be accidentally maimed by this thing before the Pentagon concludes it was a stupid idea and shelves it?
... than can be defeated by a can of turtle wax and a little elbow grease. Polish those missiles! I want to see laser beams reflecting off of there by 1400!
No one of consequence
Frickin' sharks with lasers attached to their heads!
Wellcome to the hell.
The hell is a permanent place for you to stay, we have plenty of room for you and all your loved ones you can take with you. We will raise strong emotions in you.
We offer you a nice range of leisure activities, like scourging, crucifixion and impalement.
We won't leave you hanging too long, since we have lots of activies available for you to enjoy.
And you will NEVER get enough of it. The flames will affect your comfortability all the time.
Remember this: forget Jesus, forget God. Come here. and WE have a great time with you.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
I wish I would get the opportunity to fix those once they produce them and they go out of warranty :(
The friggin' sharks are ready. Just need some lasers.
This is just in time for the so called Lex A380. The US house of representatives is working on a law that would make a missile defence system mandatory for passenger jets with a maximum of 800+ seats or 450+ tons of weight.
The only airplane with such a capacity is the brand new Airbus A380. Boeing does not offer any passenger plane of that size...
How the hell are they planning to position the plane to shoot down a missile? Do you know how quick those things move, not to mention their size?
OH NOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Its the future of invasive/disrruptive marketing, The Hell Ads are here! Gawd help us! AAAAAAARGH!!!
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
Couldn't this system be defeated by using a Photonic Band Gap texture? That is, such a structure as found on the wings of the Morpho butterfly.
All rites reversed 2010
Check it out: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg187251 46.400
It may not be a dupe, but the references Google brings up are from May 2005.
Move along, no new news to see here....
This should be the sole reason to love America. The scientists and great minds come together and solve a problem. That is why America will always be ahead of other countries technologically.
So the trusted nations will get the more powerful blue and green ray versions, but the evil nations will be stuck with the first generation red-laser versions?
At least that way you'll be able to tell them apart during battle...
hmm. HELLADS? Isn't that just that spam bot from hell?
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul.
But, will the US be fighting with red or blue lasers?
So, China has "In case you were wondering they have over a million infantry troops."
More than one source estimated the Iraqi army to be one million men or more (at least in 1991). That army didn't give much trouble to its attackers either time.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
"The High Energy Laser Area Defense System (HELLADS)" The extra "L" is for extra laser!!
Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.
I think we'd both agree this is a good thing. I'll take back "the Pentagon doesn't care" comment and second the Lt. Col.'s comment below.
By 2008, the military could start using a new vehicle that would have:
More protection for troops. Congressional pressure forced the military to add armor to all older Humvees and buy more models with factory-installed armor. But even Humvees with the latest armor are still vulnerable to the powerful bombs insurgents use.
A beefier suspension that can handle the weight of the armor. The extra armor has led to increased maintenance problems for the Humvee, which wasn't designed to handle so much weight. The extra weight also makes the vehicle more prone to rolling over and getting bogged down in sand. That has cost the Humvee much of its legendary off-road capability.
Lower fuel consumption, to reduce the need for supply convoys that have been targets of insurgents.
Improved onboard power generation to handle the expanding array of electronics that troops take into battle today compared with the simple radios of 30 years ago. Hybrid-electric drivetrains, which are gaining popularity in passenger vehicles and are already being tested in current Humvee prototypes, are being considered to save fuel and generate power.
"We wish we had that vehicle out there today," says Lt. Col. Stuart Rogers, transportation division chief of the Army Combined Arms Support Command.
Oh, yeah. And a wounded soldier is much less effective than a dead one, too. I mean, sure if they're wounded they can still shoot back when you're trying to take their position, but if they're dead, their condemned souls can slither across the ground and take over cattle and slip into the nostrils of other SOULdiers and make them into immortal evil beings.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
A better defence would be to coat the surface of the missile with a layer of microscopic cubic crystals.
Each crystal will act as a corner reflector. This will direct a significant proportion of the laser energy back to the laser source.
More than 600 posts and not even one refence to pink bunny slippers...
The parent is ignorant.
.22 slug, while the shell casing looks like a 3030 or something. When that little slug hits a bone, the bone shatters and becomes human shrapnel. If you get shot in the arm, it's likely that your arm will be blown clean off, and if a bone shard doesn't pierce a lung or other organ, you'll bleed to death PDQ.
The AR15/M16 was adopted to replace it then. It wasn't really accepted until the 80s, however.
I went through USAF basic training in 1971. The weapon used was an M16. We had two days training, one day "dry fire" and one day with live ammo.
Army grunts I talksed to said the M16 made a great dope pipe.
They are rather accurate, have a good range, and don't do full auto.
They do SO do full auto. Yes, the ones a civillian can get at a gun show won't, but the millitary isue ones do.
We weren't allowed to do full auto on the firing range in basic, but one guy "accidentally" flipped the little lever. He pulled the trigger and emptied the magazine into the roof. He was stomped on and had a bunch of 45s aimed at him when he was taken away. We never saw him again.
However, they ARE lethal. In fact, it would be quite hard to injure someone with one without killing him. The erason is the incredible speed of the projectile, which is about the size of a
Not something to use for squirrel hunting, at least if you want to eat the squirrel.
Huh?
Military explosives burn at 20k to 30k feet per second - ten to fifteen times the speed of an aircraft flying at Mach 2.
That's why they call it an explosion ;-)
Highway to the dangerzone... Gonna take you right into.. the dangerzooone.
Now's the time for a Top Gun sequel!
Strike the anvil while she's hot!
I can't believe the Pentagon is stealing technology developed by EAP. Command and Conquer: Zero Hour anyone? PDL? The Airforce gen would be miffed!
If you could fly an F-16 close enough and stable enough to aim a laser at it to burn it up or scramble its guidence systems why not just shoot at it. Launch one of those heat seeking boys at it.
If the ones to be put on F-16's are really only strong enough to 'confuse' the missle and it needs to be lasered soon after leaving the launch site, than you would have to know where the launch site is and when the launch is, right? Why not fly by with a bigger plane and drop a few boomers on the pad seconds before the missles launch when the bays are open.
Scrambling a missle so you dont know where it will blow up shouldnt affect the crazy dune monkeys shooting 'em. I saw pictures of one of Sadams atempts at a launch sight, it looked like a roller coaster that went up the side of a hill and cut off. Do you think he cares how well aimed his missles? Im sure he'll fire them with or without guidence as long as it goes BOOM!
Someone said something about how lasers will be able to stop a mirrored missle using the 10% of energy that is absorbed to melt and destory the missle, what happens to that other 90% that is reflected? Isnt that a bit dangerous?
The only thing lasers are good for is video games!
the reflectance of the finished part is 97 percent at 700 nm and ~99.5 percent at 2 m m, where it remains flat to well beyond 10.6 m m. http://www.epner.com/press_article4.ssi That is for gold. Silver in many cases is better but has the problem of degradation during storage. I thik the best method would be a mirror underlaid with a substance that would produce a cloud opaque or diffusive at the wavelength of interest. This could raise required energies to the point of unfeasability with current technology. An example of this is a beam that can punch a hole in 1/4 steel only produces a burn on the skin of a mouse because the steam cloud reduces the effectivity of the laser.
Did they by any chance mention adding an extra wing in X shape to the F-16? God I'd love to see that.
Actually the F-22 Raptor already has a laser system that's been designed for it and [I think it] fits in place of bombbay doors.
It is the F-35 or the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) that has a laser on the drawing boards.
The thing about a laser system like this is that it need a lot of electricity to run, and the vast majority of fighter aircraft do not produce the kind of juice needed to run one of these. The thing that makes the JSF capable of handling a system like this, is the way the VTOL (Vertical Take Off and Landing) version of the aircraft was designed. Unlike previous VTOL fighters (AV-8 - Harrier and the Boeing consept for JSF) which use a series of nozels to redirect thrust the engine was already making to get vertical thrust, the Lockheed JSF (the one that was selected) has a secondary fan, driven by a shaft from the main engine and door that open above and below the fan.
Using the lift fan in the VTOL plane means that the engine in the CTOL (Conventional Take Off and Landing) and CV (Carrier Varient) has the capacity built in to drive a shaft, and the aircraft themselves have a lot of room right in front of the engine/behind the cockpit. This shaft can then drive a large generator to fire the laser.
I used to be an analyst at the company that builds the engines for the F-22 and the JSF. I worked on both programs.
The laser is ultraviolet, thus it would allow an F22 to loiter in an area and attack ground targetes (Geneva conventions state that we can't attack people with lasers) However, we can cut the truck they're driving in half and thus detonating the fuel tank...
Conventional fuels (gas/diesel) do not detonate unless they are vaporized, or atomised. They will burn pretty fast though.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I think the one flaw most complained about the M16 (especially during the US Somali operations) was that it was designed to penetrate, but no stopage. Like where the bullet impacts and then spreads out and causes more damage.
So basically, they were shooting people, but if they didn't hit a vital organ it would go cleanly through them. I don't know if that has been corrected in modern versions, but one of the plusses about the AK-47 round was that it spiraled very nastily causing a great deal of stoppage and damage to the target.
Of course if it didn't kill you it would cause more painful wounds.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
The sensors which feed the most missile guidence systems cannot be shielded with mirrors because they operate at optical or thermal wave lengths. This makes them vulnerable to even a relatively weak laser. Perhaps radar guided missiles could shield their radar units but it wouldn't be that easy.
If it is strong as advertised, it seems like you could sweep it over enemy lines and kill dozens at a time- perhaps disabling non-armored vehicles- maybe even armored vehicles.
Also seems you need to be very careful about what you fire it at since a miss could kill something miles beyond your intended target.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I dread personal laser guns.
:).
Imagine terrorist sharpshooters able to assassinate people from tall buildings or mountains tens of miles away.
Imagine Bush wearing a tinfoil hat
...is a tiny amount of dust on the reflective surface (you know, the kind that gets picked up in flight), and your shiny mirror starts swallowing laser energy like there's no tomorrow. A few miliseconds later... BOOM! :-P
The problem is not the amount of power the engine can produce, but rather the amount of electricital power it can produce.
No current fighter has the electrical capacity to shoot this bad boy, but for reasons explained in this comment the non vertical take off versions of the F-35 are good canidates.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
> through anything less than a polished mirror.
A fact which I would expect countermeasures to take into account, and perhaps even exploit.
Could the target be protected with a thin, easily-penetrated secondary hull and a layer of opaque-when-vapourized material in between? i.e., laser burns through the outer skin, hits the inner material, vapourizes it, and then wastes all its energy burning through the resulting rapidly-changing vapour/plasma cloud.
(Exactly the same idea as reactive armour, basically - defeat a specific munition by disrupting it with an in-armour triggered-active countermeasure.)
Mortar and artillery shells, yes, but it's almost certainly false that lasers will provide any protection against RPGs any time soon. RPGs are, as I understand things, essentially big, explosive bullets that are in-flight with a fairly flat trajectory for less than a second before impact in typical usage scenarios. You'd be lucky to even find and isolate them in that time, much less bring a large laser system on-target or get a long enough burn time.
Not that defensive lasers wouldn't be useful---they would---but they're essentially another conventional-war tool. They'd be useless against 90+% of the casualty-causing threats in Iraq, or in most instances of asymmetric warfare that are likely in the near future.
Any thoughts on whether a thick smokescreen can protect against a laser?
i beg your pardon for my inexactness.
Asshat.
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.