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Jon Johansen Indicted by the MPA (A)
Jon Lech Johansen (jlj) writes "The National Authority for Investigation and Prosecution of Economic and Environmental Crime in Norway raided my home today and seized my Linux box, FreeBSD/Win2k box and Nokia cellphone. Not only I, but also my father has been indicted, since he owns the mmadb.no domain (webhotel) where my homepage(s) have been located. They also took me in for questioning which lasted 6-7 hours. It's 2 am CET now (I just got back), I haven't eaten, and someone's definitely going to pay for this. I have shut down my old e-mail account, and I'm now using linuxdvd@mmadb.no - More information coming tomorrow, once I've talked to my lawyer. Did someone whisper countersuit?" Jon Johansen is the young man from Norway who reverse-engineered DeCSS.
Who's up for a trip to Norway?
Windows is going the way of phlogiston...
i've been reading a lot about what's goin on in the US about the DeCSS, but what's being done in other countries such as norway in the courts adn whatnot?
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
what does prosecuting him do for these people? Do they really think that what he did is going to cause any serious problems? If anything, it allowed others to expand DVD into realms that would not have been possible otherwise (basically b/c of stupidity on the parts of companies not supporting Linux/BSD). I really am beginning to wonder about the future of the world if they are going to persecute people for doing really ingenious things.
;)
I personally believe that they are more mad that he cracked it, and because of it being easy to crack the other keys they are embarassed
Crap. We've got to do something to help this guy! Maybe start a legal fund? Or will the EFF protect him?
Check out Greg's Bridge Page!
I think this sucks, but am not supprised. So they charge him as an evil hacker trying to destroy western civilization?? - subsolar
Can someone else see the similarities here? Operation Sundevil? Hacker Crackdown? Possibly even First Post?
First of all, what exactly does this mean? What inherent rights do people in .no have? Are you actually guilty now, or is there a trial, or what?
Secondly, economic and environmental crimes? Why does the same organization do both?
Windows 2000: Designed for the Internet. The Internet: Designed for UNIX.
I saw it stated many times in previous news items that reverse engineering was legal in Norway.
The power of these large corporate entities has been grossly underestimated.
-------------------------
"After Careful Consideration, Bush Recommends Oil Drilling" - The Onion
Just a technical detail:
He has been indicted by his government. Criminal charges are generally filed by governments, civil charges may be filed by anyone. Of course, the government is undoubtedly acting at the prompting of the DVD CCA or some similar organization.
So while the government may call DVD CCA people as expert witnesses and consult with them on the case, it is ultimately the government's case. This means a government prosecutor, not a DVD CCA lawyer.
Of course, I might have it totally wrong, as I'm not a legal expert in Norway (or anywhere else, fo r that matter), but I'm pretty sure that's how it works in most western countries.
This doesnt make sense. Why arent they breaking down the doors of xing for not encrypting their key? This guy did nothing wrong besides piss off the wrong company (group?). MPAA should stop crying cause some "31337 h4xx0r" cracked their weak encryption in the first place. It's time that they finally recgonize linux. What do they think they are gonna find on his machines anyway? Just like big brother(tm) to break down the door and take all of your stuff cause you did something that they dont like.
So did I hear it right you weren't given a chance to talk to your lawyers? I don't know my international law.. but in most countries that's illegal. Good luck to you. M
So no matter where you are in the world, big brother will still be knocking on your door? But why is this a surprise? I mean, come on, everyone here in the states has been getting lawsuits for having it on their servers; its no surprise that the guy who actually CREATED DeCSS would be investigated. He'll probably be arrested, as well, and most likely get the same thing everyone else is getting, if not more. But seriously folks, think about this: I know a lot of you have 4.7 GB to spare, but how many people really carry around a DVD-R? And they think we're gonna be making copies of our DVD's up the wazoo? Right.....
When will this all end i wonder. The Big fat music and Video companies are stamoing down on small individuals who have donw nothing more than try and help people play "Their" movies on linux systems. Does this seem a little unfair? Where does it all end? DeCSS reverse engineering hardly sounds like world wide forgery to me. Does the fact i have a cdrw mean i a duplicating cds and l33t warez for all my friends, no it doesn't i use mine for acchives of my scans and brother bans music. Welcome to a bastardised 1984 where it is not the goverment in control but the media and their fat rich lawers. I did like the few hackers who treid to submit T-Shirts today to a judge with the DeCSS code on it. -my opinion is my own not yours
I know here in the US we have a number of organizations that try to protect the individual against abuses of power, but who helps in these cases (open source and right to reverse engineer, etc.) and what about outside the US? With the growth of profile for the open source movement this is going to happen a lot more before it gets better. Large companies often would rather lobby, legislate and litigate then change a flawed technology (like the one in this case or scanners for cell phones) or bussiness plan.
Is there a list of organizations that can be supported, promoted, and/or contacted for these issues?
'Cause you're one of those evil 'hax0rz' that's out to take all capitalism out of the software and hardware industries. I don't know the laws of Norway enough to offer any advice, other than saying good luck in court. Try to get a court date during which the moon is in Aquarius. People tend to be more understanding and open minded during those times.
-- Count Spatula: The Culinary Vampire "...because my cooking sucks."
This sucks, but is to be expected. DVD isn't just a USA thing, AFIAK, but has to have cooperation worldwide for the zone deal to have happened.
The question is, will we have the right to use what we have rightfully bought? That's all he did, after all, helped users access data that they PAID for. This will stop, once people get fed up with corporations screwing them over.
ok, end rant now. But i had to say something..
David
bash: ispell: command not found
This sig left intentionally blank.
Clearly, this is an attempt at legal pressure tactics. I don't know the legal system in Norway, but it strikes me that the correct approach is to see that everyone involved in the allegations against him should be sent an official invitation to come testify as to why they think he should be harrassed. Is there any chance of getting some Open Source expert witnesses there to testify on his side?
are all kinda lame. We need to drop these silly squabbles and focus on matters that threaten our society today, matters that are truly worthy of legal action. For example, who keeps stealing my socks and returning them all crusty yellow? It doesn't matter where they are, in my drawer, in the dryer, on clotheslines, they keep on disappearing and I find them a few days later all crusty and stanky and stuff.
I'm not letting anybody leave until somebody owns up to it. I can wait all day if I have to...
Tinkerbell - The New Generation Of Leet Trollers! An extra penny if you can guess the recursive acronym for our name!
Didn't he repeat over and over that he was not the one who did the reverse engineering (those people rightly stayed silent) but just was the first to publically distribute it? Or am I thinking of someone else?
I'm sorry if I'm being a wet blanket here, but do we even know this is real? It's not that hard to fake an e-mail, and as has been proven before, the /. posters are not the most vigilent bunch of people on the planet.
In practically every news story we've seen on this, prior to this one, I've seen comments to the effect that Norway's legal climate made him 'untouchable.'
What changed? I guess the better question would be: "What legal provisions does Norway offer to protect reverse engineering, and why is he now in trouble?"
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
Wow.
So another wonderful example of the dreaded Orwellian government. I certainly hope the political leaders of the "free world" are ready to wake up extra early tomorrow morning.
But, really, Norway isn't exactly the most socially liberal of countries. Anyone familiar with Laws laws and civil liberties? This sort of thing is prolly much more accepted there than in the States and UK.
// zyqqh
What can we do to help? Please list. I can help out with money. What's his address? Does anybody know the gov't in Norway's email address who did this to him? I want to write them a letter or two. I want to sue that gov't on an international level as well. Kent
Go rent a dvd for a few bucks, dump it to my hard drive. Encode it to mpeg, and burn on two cds. In a year or so the price of blank dvds and burners will drastically go down.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
The MPAA has gone way, way too far. I am so ticked off I can hardly see straight. I'd feel better if I thought we had a chance in hell of defending ourselves against this. Before tonight, I thought we did. Now I'm not so sure.
Fuck them.
If you can't figure out how to mail me, don't.
For linux tips: http://www.linuxtipsblog.com
on the livid archives you will notice that he said that he did not do the reverse engineering.
Well, scratch Norway off of my list of potentially free countries to live in. Are there any countries out there that still have freedoms? :-)
Actually, that's my sig. Sorry for any confusion! :-)
Check out Greg's Bridge Page!
Is it just me, or are other people getting sick of the dirty end of the law impinging on the rights of people?
Here we are, a world well on it's way to globalisation of pretty much everything.. a strong belief in personal and individual rights, established universal human rights laws... all these things that seem to indicate that the world wants people to be treated fairly in all cases, whether they are convicted or not..
And then we hear about things like this.. and in fact, a huge range of other examples of law enforcement directly inhibiting the 'fairness' of the systems we as a global population are trying to put in place.
It's a shame that the nature of law enforcement tends to require relatively short chains of command from go to woe, otherwise we might have a better chance of filtering out idiots that order and carry out raids like this.
B.
Don't piss off the wrong people, especially if they are a multi billion dollar corporation. They have deep pockets and high priced lawyers. Same goes for kevin mitnick, he pissed off the wrong person and paid for it.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Mirror the source. Nobody's knocked on my door yet, and I've made a dozen offers for people to mirror from my site. The RIAA does not read slashdot. =)
Join the EFF and pay attention to the action alerts.
Alert the press! Get our side out there! They think we're pirates - this isn't about piracy, it's about interoperability.
Start a legal defense fund for *all* DeCSS victims.
That being said, here's why they're doing it: Scare tactic. They want to "get tough" on the "pirates" and scare people into submission. Ain't gonna happen - don't let them. Fight back - we're talking about something central to the open source community: the right to reverse-engineer to promote interoperability and open standards. This just reeks of proprietary do-it-our-way-or-the-highway. Fight back! I know alot of us aren't political enough - but consider donating a few bucks and also mirroring the source. Post to slashdot. Sign up to become a DOE for the case. But do something - get involved.. or we may wind up with another kevin mitnick - en masse.
This is a full-fledged war now against the open source movement: they're trying to stop reverse-engineering and black-box everything. They can justify and rationalize all they want - but it's really about them trying to gain/maintain their monopoly on distribution. It's high-time we kicked our ass into gear and get people like Ralph Nader on board. This is about consumer rights - something any average joe on the street should understand. WRITE TO THE PRESS NOW. Give a counter-point, make it so your mom can understand the key points.
Maybe off-topic but still worthwhile:
How much does it cost exactly to join the elite group of programmers who have their own special key on DVDs, like XING and Apple and all the others? I would think RedHat or a similar Linux company would have more than enough to pay for it... and then open-source the code. And then we wouldn't have to go through all these legal battles.
Anonymous Pacifist
BEST IRC! irc.irchat.org
I've said it all along and I'll say it again. IF this is how big business chooses to treat 10 million potential customers, then FUCK them!
I will NOT buy any encrypted DVD products, ever! We can just get rid of all the DeCSS code and say fine. If you guys want to play that way, we can, too.
Why should I pay for their (Hollywood's) dreck anyway? They ought to pay me for pain and suffering for being forced to watch their lousy films.
Anyway, I think big media's in for a rude awakening. The Internet does actually level the playing field (technically if not legally/socially), and they don't like it.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
when the various world governments are through beating up on their poor geeks to protect big business (yes, the ones who back them) they'll realize that they have undercut their genious. who'll fuel big brother then?
It is not clear whether he is going to hire legal help, but it might be easier for him to make that desision if some sympathetic supporters made an offer. Would this be an cause for the EFF to be involved in? If so, I would be willing to kick in a bit, perhaps through an EFF trust fund.
If the EFF is not interested, perhaps another reputable rights organisation would be willing to set up a legal defense fund? To me, the key is knowing that the money is being used for its intended purpose. I don't just want to send an envelope full of cash to some foreign country and hope it arrives!
Sorry I am asking questions and not answering them, but I would like to help, and I am sure others feel the same way.
A dingo ate my sig...
I honestly can't see what this will accomplish...unless there's more [sic] here than what there seems to be. I honestly don't think so, but what could possibly be the motivation for bully-tactics like this, unless they want people like us to find out about it and get scared. That's a good idea. Revolutions have *never* been started by people under oppression...
Rember Burn GIF's Day anyone
how aobut Burn DVD's day ?? At every Linux users group meeting all over the world !! let them hear the penguins scream !!
Its out of the bag now, they can't stop it. Mp3's are too widespread for them to stamp out. Millions of people probably downloaded DeCSS, the MPAA must be scared shitless.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Alas, common sense like this just doesn't come into it.
A very huge and powerful industry has just realised that somebody has swept the control of their product right out from under their feet.
As soon as they release a DVD copy of something, people who want it at high quality, for free, can get it.
Our arguments about the obsolesence of this kind of Intellectual Property, and the fact that they're still going to be making more money than they were from video, don't really matter. What's at stake here is vast amounts of power and money, and big corporate machines don't react well (or rationaly) to losing it.
I would expect that the Norweigan Government came under vast amounts of pressure to take this action.
Well - for those that doubted it - the war is on now. Without without intending to sound absurdely melodramatic, the stakes are what kind of future this planet is going to have...
Fixing copyright
This is something out of a movie or something, thats is insane.
How similar are the laws in Norway to here in the US? Here I'm pretty sure it's still legal to make a "backup" of media like software and music, just as long it's for personal use...It seems that the decoding of DVD was so unexpected by the bigwig video companies and the code spread out so quickly, that they needed to make a decicive move and prosecute...granted, international internet laws have to enacted, but this is ridiculus...someone taken in for writing a piece of code that does basically the same thing a 200 dollar piece of hardware does...maybe if it could be compressed with minimal loss to one twentyth the original size they might have something to worry about...but not at this infant stage... just my .23 cents...
Many of you may not know that the norwegian government had signed a deal with many involved with the MPAA to allow translations of American movies to be made in .no . This was about ten years back. I can find no information other than the newspaper clipping i had saved, since i am heavily into music recording, myself.
My heart goes out to this poor kid and his family for the abuse they're no doubt suffering. I hope we, as a community, can speak out against these injustices and stop them from happening again.
What can we learn from this, if you think you might be raided some day?:
1. Use an encrypted file system. Don't give the spooks any more information than they possibly can get.
2. Don't let them touch a fucking thing until you've spoken to a lawyer. I have a feeling it's very illegal for them to remove things from your home until you've had a lawyer look over the warrant.
3. Don't let them frighten you. Intimidation is their most powerful ally. I know I'd be shitting my pants if I were called in for questioning. Just remember, if you live in a reasonably free country, you're not going to lose anything by keeping your mouth shut, but you have a lot to lose by talking.
Whatever you do, *don't* let these government bastards take away your rights. Just because you're suspected of a crime doesn't mean you have no freedom.
And I call on every Slashdot reader to do something about this. Write letters, make phone calls, give money.
It's kind of funny, so soon after Kevin Mitnick was freed, that we have another martyr on our hands. This is one instance when I hope the hacker (and cracker) community will rise up and speak out for freedom.
Remember the writings of Jefferson and the other American founding fathers, and live by them.
It's been asked before, but I have yet to see a clear answer. Somebody please tell us, how can we best help?
what can the people who have cashed in on their IPO do to help?
what can the poor college students do to help?
The best answer I've heard so far is "go read opendvd.org".
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
So, more scare tactics from the MPAA. When someone infringes on the free speech of the media, the entertainment industry howls in indignation and raises a ruckus. Now they are terrorizing foreign citizens. I guess they only pay lip service to the first amendment when it suits their needs. Hypocrites. I bought the DeCSS T-Shirt from CopyLeft, and have a hardcopy of the code. This code will remain in my posession for...well...ever. And I might actually take out a personal ad in the local newspaper and put the DeCSS code there. Too bad I can't afford advertising space in Time Magazine. :) While I'm off topic and being moderated down with every word I speak, I just want to ask...where is Red Hat and VA Linux in all this? After they got their multi-billion dollar market caps, why aren't they investing in the defense of this necessary component for DVD playback? Don't they realize that a ruling against them will hurt Linux badly? Linux without DVD will be, in a couple of years, like Linux without CDs nowadays. Yet they remain silent. ESR was crowing and blathering about how we had already won the case. Yet we have the MPAA treading roughshod over the 1st Amendment. We have the MPAA terrorizing non-US citizens. We have had 2 injunctions. Yet ESR, VA Linux, and Red Hat are all mute and seemingly unwilling to help. They got their fat wallets, I guess, and screw the Open Source community.
or 3. send them to the trashbin.
Get your head out of the sand. The sad truth here is that no one really cares. Only the technical people in the world are fighting this. and the mpaa has enough lawyers to fight us off with ease. We're pretty fucked here. I think the best tactic would be to find some illegal action caused by the mpaa and bring the ball back into play on OUR terms. That and get some MAINSTREAM media coverage. Not just a bunch of geeks who code the stuff and a bunch of 14 year old computer nerds spouting "first post".
If you want to watch DVD's... get one of the TV. Don't get one for your computer. Course, I may just say the hell with it and never buy one period. Nothing I want to watch anyway.
... and frightened. I am using my computer every day. It is so simple to write some program. It is interesting to play with the hardware and do more with it than would be possible when using some window$ software. It is curiosity, playfulness. And you learn a great deal by doing it. Does that mean by simply writing a program or driver for a chip you've got in your computer and sharing your thoughts with some friends (social contacts, another positive side effect) you could suddenly be prosecuted?
It seems to me that somebody want's to split the world into two groups: One huge group (me included) that has to use the software (and pay for it) and a very small group that develops and distributes the software and makes the money.
Jon Johansen tried to cross the border and has a huge problem now. I don't know where the border is but fear that I already crossed it by simply running Linux and storing DeCSS on my hard drive. I would like to help Jon, but I do not know how I could...
Can someone post a new mirror of the source code, preferably in a completely different country?
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Okay, tell me if I'm wrong but it seems society is again falling into the cracks of the system where the big guys have absolute control, and if you do anything to oppose them (intellectually, verbally, etc.) you will be persecuted. This time instead of the church and state being the ones to persecute you it is the large mega-corporations, trying to protect their greedy systems. I hope something changes so that history does not repeat itself.
My first guess is that Jon Johansen is probably not in as serious of trouble as he would be if he were an adult or if it was in the US, since from what I have heard, minors aren't routinely tried as adults in Europe. Does anyone know for sure?
As far as "someone's going to pay" I think there is a pretty simple solution -- round up the MPAA & associates' expert witnesses who made connections between DeCSS and copying DVDs and throw them in jail for perjury. Since DeCSS is of absolutely no use in making a copy of a DVD, anyone who said otherwise in court (and knew they were blowing smoke up the courts ass) can be put away.
--Kevin
lets just hope they don't execute him.
General Norwegian Laws: http://www.law.emory.edu/LAW/refdesk/country/forei gn/norway.html
The relevant Articles of the constitution:
Article 96
No one may be convicted except according to law, or be punished except after a court judgment. Interrogation by torture must not take place.
Article 99
No one may be taken into custody except in the cases determined by law and in the manner prescribed by law. For unwarranted arrest, or illegal detention, the officer concerned is accountable to the person imprisoned.
The Government is not entitled to employ military force against citizens of the State, except in accordance with the forms prescribed by law, unless any assembly disturbs the public peace and does not immediately disperse after the Articles of the Statute Book relating to riots have been read out clearly three times by the civil authority.
Article 102
Search of private homes shall not be made except in criminal cases.
Has this been verified? Considering the qualifications the /. eds have for that job I don't know if we should all be panicking and becoming furious quite yet. Anybody could've sent it.
Despite the comment made in Geeks in Space episode something or other, this really does prove that Big Brother is watching and yes, he is out to get you if you do anything that The Man dissaproves of.
How many people must the DVD CCA go through to realise that when they do an encryption, it gets broken, the "Cracker" gets arrested, and life is a general cluster *ahem* for everyone else? 3? 30? It doesn't work, the DVD CCA and all its eyes and arms need to back off and let us run our happy little ways.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I smell a put-on here...why did he cancel his e-mail address and start another one? I don't know if I buy this...
Got Rhinos?
Thanks for the link to the source. Now nicely mirrored on my site.
The article mentioned that Jon had been indicted. What crime is he charged with? Does Norway have some law as asinine as the DMCA? Is reverse engineering illegal there?
0 1 - just my two bits
My apologies for my clearly not-too-hot Norwegian; apparently this article only refers to 3 US site shutdowns rather than the arrest of Jon Johansen himself.
// zyqqh
Normally I don't moderate anonymous cowards down, because anything posted anonymously is suspicious to begin with. However, in this case I did so because this is not only a troll, it is a very dangerous troll. There may be some in the audience who don't know that Norway abolished the last vestiges of the death penalty in 1979 (see this page from Amnesty International). No one has been put to death in Norway for hacking or for any other reason in over two decades, possibly longer.
I don't know what this particular anonymous coward's motivation was in posting this, but I figured it was important enough to point out to the readership at large.
I say it's time for a general boycott against any company affiliated with the MPAA. They've gone too far this time. If they think deCSS or Livid will cost them money... let's see what they say when they find out how much they've lost because they've alienated an entire segment of their revenue base.
Let's hit them where it really hurts!
I no longer rent/buy/attend any movies until the MPAA has learned the error of their ways. I encourage you to do the same. Plus, we should make sure we let them know that we're no longer giving them any of our money and why!
This strong arm bullying has to stop!
--
--
A PC without windows is like chocolate cake with no mustard.
Freedom isn't free. Never has been, never will be. How many of you slashdot readers gave a shit when ATF, FBI, & Delta Force slaughtered those religious wackos in Texas? What was their crime that necessitated a Gov't standoff? A couple hundred dollars in (alledgedly) unpaid taxes. How many people care that the IRS routinely and consistently employ illegal tactics and hold kangaroo courts to illegally force people to pay taxes and ruin people's lives & businesses? How many people cared that Bill Clinton ordered the US military to bomb an aspirin factory in Sudan so the lapdog media wouldn't discuss the fact that he's a horny pervert who lied under oath. How many people give a shit that the US media is little more than shills for the DNC? How many people care that the President, Congress, and even courts have been using the Constitution and Bill of Rights as toilet paper since day 1? How many people care that individual countries soverignty is being pre-empted by the UN and various suborganizations (WTO, World Bank, etc)
What happened to you was wrong. The only difference between you and everybody else (this crosses country borders) is that you know you got shafted. Most people don't realize that they've been bent over and fucked by their government,
Oh man, do we have to see this happen *every* decade? The only difference between this one and the last one is that the police might get suspicious if you took your hard drive out by now.
:)
Other than that it looks like no one else has learned anything apart from the usual "Computer crime is bad. Hackers should be punished. Computer crime is anything computer-related that I don't understand but someone says is bad. Big corporations are there to protect me..." Of course, we hackers know the difference. But that hasn't changed, either.
Yo, NSA and MPA(A)! I can watch DVDs on my computer, break your patented triple-XOR encryption in my head, and therefore decrypt your 31337 secret K0deZ. Better send someone here to shut me up real quick and steal my stuff without cause, 'cause you know I'm an evil HaX0r commie pinko, and I deserve whatever I get, no matter how illegal it is for you to do it!
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I don't quite follow. First I don't agree with the actions at all. But thats not what I'm adressing.
I can see why they felt a need to tak his PCs, they were most likley used to develop DeCSS and hence are evidence of some form or another to whatever this case will be in norway.
But his cell phone? Whats the point here? I know some phones are pretty amazing in what they can do, but I've yet to see one with a DVD option? Why would they ceize this device?
Did they take his VCR and microwave to?
I geuss I should just sum this up in one word. deh.
I'm afraid I don't buy this story. It seems rather odd that _AFTER_ talking to his lawyer, he would even be mentioning anything about counter suits or anything like that (most lawyers tell you to keep your fool mouth shut, and for good reason). Of course, he has recently "changed" his e-mail address. Bah.
Can we have something like independent verification? Things like this are too serious to screw up on here, let's see some evidence.
Also, looks like mainstream media is actually capable of looking at both sides.. See this very pro-DeCSS article at CNN.com. Interesting how they have no mention of this...
The best scenario I can see is:
At which point I'll think about getting a DVD drive and some DVD movies. However, it won't be a done deal: I want the MPAA to apoligize to all of us.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Sorry, just driving me nuts, everyone saying Jon Johansen "reverse engineered DeCSS". DeCSS was the outcome of reverse engineering CSS, the Content Scrambling System. Using terminology correctly helps to make you look like you know what you're talking about.
Given the amount of feeling and passion on certain subjects here on slashdot. I think that sometimes people jump on the bandwagon a bit too early. This leads one to be taken for a ride.
Speaking for myself, until there's more evidence of this, I'm not going to get enraged quite yet.
This smells fishy to me.
Worst Sig Ever
Is there a place to send money for Jon's defense? In this country lawyers are expensive; very expensive if they're competent. The average price for an honest lawyer is EDIVZERO ;-).
Will
Is there an organized DeCSS webring? I have a *horrible* website, but I'd be happy to spruce it up with some links.
-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-
My mom's going to kick you in the face!
I'm all for patting oneself on the back, but still... :P
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Having the federal government strong arm you, seize your property and take your family members in for questioning is doubtable a horrific event for someone to endure. I'm sure this kind of action makes a lot of people angery like it did me. The question that I asked myself was 'Why does this kind of action make my gut cringe?' The answer really has nothing to do with DeCSS but instead with how easily rights of the individual are violated. To my knowledge Jon Johansen is not a cracker, a hacker maybe, but in it's truest definition. I encourage those of you reading in Norway to write to your representative if you feel that this was inappropiate action to be taken. In my experience the best way to take on a large group of people who are appointed to power is with an even larger group of people who are self-impowered - and it doesn't get any larger than 'the people.' Jon, I wish you luck.
So there are ALOT of people who have become filthy rich off of computer hardware software and so forth (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Paul Allen etc...) and, as rich people are want to do they tend to, or at least express an interest in philanthropy.
Well here is a way to help out! It's one thing to sue Joe Schmuck for DeCSS. Even with the EFF defending him it is easy to paint him as an evil hacker/pirate and an enemy of social order/capitalism.
On the other hand if one of these big rich men were to do the same thing (supported by their own high price lawyers no doubt) it would be much more difficult to so libel them. Clearly, given there large net worth, they aren't doing this just to steal a few bucks worth of DVD's.
If anyone knows a local billionaire who is feeling genorous give him a call.
Marriage is the "pseudo-ethics" that cloaks the messy truth of sexuality in the raiment of propriety -- it's "Don't Ask,
... if you read any closer, you'll see that the licensing agreement would threaten said licencee (such as RH) with fines in excess of US$10M for anything done to 'weaken' the 'security' or 'openness', i.e. open sourcing it.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
You watch the media. They will mis-characterize this top to bottom. "He is a haxor!"
You can write the media to complain or gently encourage them to understand, but guess what???
It won't matter. The MPAA is in bed with all sorts of media outlets. The MPAA has its own propaganda machine, the media.
We all know how technically incapable the majority of our society is.. They are going to buy every word the media throws at them.
The governments can be bought off... And they have the money to do it..
I am at a loss for any possible answers.
>I'm saying nothing at all with regard to the deCSS thang.
Good, 'cause your comment seem irrelevant too
it. They tried to prevent people "stealing"
something they didn't own (I.e. the ability
to decode DVDs), and they failed. They
wanted to hold on to it by mere force
of possession, and failed. That *is* their
own bloody fault.
As for any comment about things outside the
DVD realm, I'm not sure what you are talking
about.
At least in the US, in cases like this, it's standard to seize everything electronic or of value - either because they don't know what it is, or simply to cause the defendant more of a hassle. I've heard of people having VCRs, answering machines, printers, unused monitors, etc seized.
In California and Mass. there is an ANTI-SLAPP provision. This looks like more abusive process. But what this looks like is that they may be using criminal prosecution to silence disent. Since it was on a website, no need to preserve evidence of publication, just print it!
I was suprised that a judge issued an injunction when it was already denied.
This is another example of a big company trying to shut up things that they don't like.
Mattel is doing the same to me. The people who thinks that my site is just bitching, do not realize the implications of Mattel's actions. Mattel (then MSI) was asked what is libelous, and they still have not given a full answer. Last Tuesday at the summary judgment motion hearing (which the judge probably would whack them hard after hearing all the facts) when the judge asked Mattel what was libelous, they said two things then moved to dismiss the case. Mattel filed a motion to dismiss w/o prejudice so that they can file again anywhere! Not to dismiss with prejudice that we agreed to.
In 1996, I asked them what was factually incorrect about the site, the never answered. They still have not fully answered the question of what is factually incorrect.
Opinion is not libel. Mattel does not like my opinion and the fact that I backed up the opinion!
Microsoft probably does not like the opinions about them or Windows on this site. What if Microsoft starting suing over this site, just because they didn't like what was being said? And demand the information on everyone who said anything on this site about them or Windows?
Fight Spammers!
Regardless of whether this story is a hoax or not, joining the EFF makes sense. I haven't been impressed with them lately, but now that they have started working on the DeCSS case, I've decided to join the EFF. It's an easy way to help them pay the bills, and boost their numbers for purposes of PR, etc.
This man did not hurt anyone
This man did not commit any act of violence
This man did not cause any damage to any person or property
This man has broken no laws in Norway as far as I can tell
This man is suffering at the request of millionaire American movie company executives who have nothing better to do than harass and terrorize innocent people. They terrorize people interested in their own technology. They terrorize citizens of foreign countries. They terrorize their own paying, law-abiding customers. This is sick. And all you can do is make assinine comments from behind your cozy computer screen. It's just someone else, someone you'll never meet, someone you don't give a damn about because it's got nothing to do with you, right? Well I'm sure as heck not gonna be supporting you when you're on their hit list.
-Jeff Sand
shroom@bradley.edu
p.s. I've got the DeCSS source for anyone who wants to mirror it.
I find it very interesting that some sort of serious legal authority is getting involved in this situation - I was under the impression that in the U.S. it was a civil suit. Is it a civil case in Norway also? Who are these people? Can someone fill that in?
This was a wake-up call for me. I was supportive of the EFF and everyone else involved in the suit in California, but I figured it would be one of those things where the case went to court, the judge laid the smack-down (so to speak) on the plaintiff, and we all went on our merry way. But the fact that an indictment was returned against this gentleman shows that not only is the DVD CCA intent on making a serious effort to put a stop to legal and legitimate reverse engineering but that there is a severe possibility that WE MIGHT LOSE.
I went and read the response by the DVD CCA- their argument is since the code has the master key in it, it MUST have been obtained illegally. This is a circular argument. But if they are able to convince a judge that this is true, this could signal an end to the idea of black-box reverse engineering.
How can we prevent this from happening? I'm starting by putting a copy of the DeCSS code up on my personal web server: http://128.122.106.158/decss.txt This is the only code I have - if someone wants to email me something more complete, I'll put that up. Email me at matthewzito@yahoo.com.
Everyone should put this code on their site. If enough people put this code on a website somewhere, the DVD CCA can't sue/arrest/harrass everyone. It's an old, hokey protest tactic, but it works.
Next, contact anyone and everyone in power. Call newspapers, politicians, and tell anyone and everyone who will listen. If they won't listen, tell them multiple times. Be polite, but be firm.
Write letters to the editor. Here, the idea is to make sure that everyone is aware of the issue, and more importantly, is aware of our side of the issue. Make sure that if someone reads an article that supports the DVD CCA, they have already read or heard something from someone sympathetic to our cause.
Donate money to the EFF, and any legal defense fund that is created for this gentleman. It doesn't have to be a lot, but anything you can give can help insure that we get a victory in the courts.
Anyone interested in putting together a little fund to run an ad in a major US newspaper like the NY times with the DeCSS code in it? That's more of a farfetched idea than most of the others in this post, but its a beautiful idea nonetheless.
Basically, the only things we can do are practice social disobedience (even in such a minor form as keeping our own public copies of the decss code), support those who are fighting the legal battles in the courts, and educate, educate, educate. Even if we lose some court battles, if the public in general is aware of the issues at stake, that gives us an advantage for future confrontations with companies trying to stop legitimate reverse engineering. Which there will certainly be.
Email me at matthewzito@yahoo.com
Matthew J Zito, CCNA
me@mzi.to
FIGHT NOW, OR DON'T COMPLAIN LATER!!!
NOTE: For the uninitiated, this program is used for legally viewing dvd movies which you have purchased.
I've got my mirror up !
Anonymous ftp to thewalrus.gt.ed.net
Furthermore, I'm currently discussing with the LUG@GT (Linux Users Group at Georgia Tech), and I have an appointment to consult with legal counsel about our LUG organizing a legal defense fund. I have no idea what needs to be done on our part, only that SOMETHING has to be done, so if anybody can offer advice, it would be most appreciated.
25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
Yet another reason why we need to boycott DVD technology and, probably, anything that one of the MPAA's associates puts out, until this lawsuit settles. Let's not give these jerks the ammunition they need to prosecute the case (our money.)
TOYWAR!!
Finding God in a Dog
/*
/* __linux__ */
/* DVD specific ? */ /* DVD specific ? */
* css-cat.c
*
* Copyright 1999 Derek Fawcus.
*
* Released under version 2 of the GPL.
*
* Decode selected sector types from a CSS encoded DVD to stdout. Use as a
* filter on the input to mpeg2player or ac3dec.
*
*/
#include
#include
#if defined(__linux__)
# include
#endif
#include
#include
#include
#include "css-descramble.h"
static struct playkey pkey1a1 = {0x36b, {0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0}};
static struct playkey pkey2a1 = {0x762, {0x2c,0xb2,0xc1,0x09,0xee}};
static struct playkey pkey1b1 = {0x36b, {0x90,0xc1,0xd7,0x84,0x48}};
static struct playkey pkey1a2 = {0x2f3, {0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0}};
static struct playkey pkey2a2 = {0x730, {0x2c,0xb2,0xc1,0x09,0xee}};
static struct playkey pkey1b2 = {0x2f3, {0x90,0xc1,0xd7,0x84,0x48}};
static struct playkey pkey1a3 = {0x235, {0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0}};
static struct playkey pkey1b3 = {0x235, {0x90,0xc1,0xd7,0x84,0x48}};
static struct playkey pkey3a1 = {0x249, {0xb7,0x3f,0xd4,0xaa,0x14}};
static struct playkey pkey4a1 = {0x028, {0x53,0xd4,0xf7,0xd9,0x8f}};
static struct playkey *playkeys[] = {
&pkey1a1, &pkey2a1, &pkey1b1,
&pkey1a2, &pkey2a2, &pkey1b2,
&pkey1a3, &pkey1b3,
&pkey3a1, &pkey4a1,
NULL};
static unsigned char disk_key[2048];
static unsigned char title_key[5];
static unsigned char sector[2048];
unsigned long sectors = 0;
unsigned long crypted = 0;
unsigned long skipped = 0;
int do_all = 0;
int do_video = 0;
int do_ac3 = 0;
int do_mpg = 0;
int verbose = 0;
int keep_pack = 0;
int keep_pes = -1;
#define STCODE(p,a,b,c,d) ((p)[0] == a && (p)[1] == b && (p)[2] == c && (p)[3] == d)
static void un_css(int fdi, int fdo)
{
unsigned char *sp, *pes;
int writen, wr, peslen, hdrlen;
while (read(fdi, sector, 2048) == 2048) {
++sectors;
if (!STCODE(sector,0x00,0x00,0x01,0xba)) {
fputs("Not Pack start code\n", stderr);
++skipped; continue;
}
if (do_all)
goto write_it;
pes = sector + 14 + (sector[13] & 0x07);
if (STCODE(pes,0x00,0x00,0x01,0xbb)) {/* System Header Pack Layer */
peslen = (pes[0x04] 0 && writen 32)
usage_exit();
++keep_pes;
break;
case '1': case '2': case '3': case '4':
case '5': case '6': case '7': case '8':
do_ac3 = c - '0';
++keep_pes;
break;
case EOF:
goto got_args;
default:
usage_exit();
break;
}
got_args:
keep_pes = (keep_pes > 0) ? 1 : 0;
return optind;
}
int main(int ac, char **av)
{
int ai, fd;
char titlef[12];
if ((fd = open("disk-key", O_RDONLY)) == -1) {
perror("can't open disk-key");
exit(1);
}
if (read(fd, disk_key, 2048) != 2048) {
perror("can't read disk-key");
close(fd);
exit(1);
}
close(fd);
if ((ai = parse_args(ac, av)) >= ac)
usage_exit();
strcpy(titlef, "title");
strcat(titlef, title);
strcat(titlef, "-key");
if ((fd = open(titlef, O_RDONLY)) == -1) {
perror("can't open title-key");
exit(1);
}
if (read(fd, title_key, 5) != 5) {
perror("can't read title-key");
close(fd);
exit(1);
}
close(fd);
if (strcmp(av[ai], "-") == 0)
fd = 0;
else if ((fd = open(av[ai], O_RDONLY)) == -1) {
fputs("can't open VOB file ", stderr);
fputs(av[ai], stderr);
perror("");
exit(1);
}
if (!css_decrypttitlekey(title_key, disk_key, playkeys)) {
close(fd);
return 3;
}
un_css(fd, 1);
fprintf(stderr, "Total %lu, skipped %lu, crvid %lu\n",
sectors, skipped, crypted);
close(fd);
return 0;
}
You had a windows 2000 box seized ? Urk... assuming you're not a registered beta tester, there's yet another hokey charge they can pin on you.
25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
Why ? To protect their milk cow. They would just feel more comfortable if everyone was dumb enough to be forced to use windoze boxen just to watch their insipid movies.
Needless to say, I'm not about to buy a DVD player before verrry long in that circumstances. I never give in the game of people I don't respect.
So, if they don't want unix users to play their videos, the solution is to simply boycott them. Just don't even buy a DVD player. They don't need money for so few people after all, do they ? -- User typed in a command - must be jailed for curiosity crime.
We all have been reading post after post explaining that the only practical use of the cracked DVD algo is to put the Linux community on equal ground with the other widely used OS's that have DVD drivers. You would think that with the Justice department trying to break the MS monopoly, the rest of the legal community would follow suit, and not bully the MS competition with all this legal crap.
Why would the entertainment industry want to alienate Linux users in the first place? Wouldn't it have been a lot easier just to supply closed source drivers with an open API for Linux? They could have gained lots of new business, why give up profits.
I am beginning to wonder if the big money people are beginning to feel really threatened by Linux and the open source movement. Since many of the open source products are non-commercial, maybe all the trumped up legal crap is just a dirty underhanded way of crushing a perceived threat?
That is part of why I am fighting my battle with Mattel!
Though it is can be hard to fight, it will be harder to fight later if people keep giving in! My battle with Mattel wears on me at time, but then I remember what I am fighting for and then come back fighting harder!
If the media mis-characterizes this, then you must correct them. I did this with a Boston Globe reporter and I will inform him of this in a few minutes.
Fight Spammers!
Remember, verify, then speak. Can you honestly say that you know for certain he is not a legitimate beta tester?
If only this were in sweden!
http://www.xenu.net/archive/footbullet/
Become a FSF associate member before the low #s are used
...was due to export laws here. They couldn't get away with stronger encryption and be able to make DVDs available outside the US. They've stated as much recently. Not that I'm on their side or anything, just stating facts.
This kid is going to be the new... grr, what's his name... Bennett or somesuch? The Peacefire kid...
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
Pirating unreleased software (no matter who makes it) is illegal. He does not garner any sympathy from me, nor make me want to contribute to his defense.
Um, the beta releases of MS Windows 2000 have been out since last August or so. Where do you get off claiming he pirated it from his statement that he runs it? Most likely, it is a perfectly legal beta copy. And who the hell moderated this up? Insightful??
A couple of people need a major reality check, here.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Who says it was pirated? Win2k has been in beta for a while now; many people have perfectly legitimate copies of it. I of course don't know the details of Jon's situation, but you can't just assume that it's been pirated just because it's not available to the general public yet.
Well, things are starting to get a bit out of hand. Before I mumble on about real issues I would like to ask a question. What is the best way to protect your personal possessions from theft, 1) Buy good locks for your doors and windows, or 2) Leave the door open and sue anyone who steals anything.
This is no longer about Jon Johansen, or the cracking of DeCSS, this is about Abuse of privilege. In any country the legal system is paid for by the people and is there to protect the people and other legal entities (including corporations). The legal system is not there to replace adequate safe guards, do we complain when prisoners start law suits at the publics expense because they got the wrong kind of peanut butter? Do we complain when able-bodied people call an ambulance to take them for a checkup? The answer to this is yes (I hope) because it's abuse of the system. In the same way we should protest that entities like the MPAA think they can throw their weight around at the public's expense due to little more then their own failings, yes I know they pay for their own lawyers but the courts etc. all come from the taxpayer.
The issues surrounding the right to access legal acquired information etc. have been covered in other posts, but I would like to bring to people's attention another abuse of the CSS system. The CSS system is there to protect against piracy and to enforce the region coding system. I am angered by the abuse of the region coding system, a DVD disk costs about twice as much in the UK as it does in the US, and quite often does not have as many added extras (interviews, clips etc..). The region coding system forces us to buy often inferior products at always exaggerated prices. Naturally a booming market in imported DVD's and 'chipped' players sprung up but the MPAA lobbied the British government into a large scale crackdown of the 'Grey imports'. Once again taxpayer money wasted in support of big business screwing over the overage joe.
For these reasons I will continue to host a mirror at http://www.exaflop.org and urge other mirror owners to email me and pass on their URLs to aid in the construction of a larger list of mirrors. The MPAA and it's members need to learn three lessons, 1) Attempting to control legal use of a legally purchased product is futile, 2) They cannot continue to abuse privilege, 3) There is no putting of the baby back into the womb once it has been born.
It's possible (tho unlikely) that the win2k box was licensed. There are a select few who get to have licensed copies.
Some of us aren't the best writers. And some of us don't have the facts.
m l?URL=%2Fnow%2Ffeedback%2F1%2C1611%2C311 %2C00%2Ehtml
I don't want to lie about our position, and I want to get the facts straight. Can somebody post a letter that has correct facts, but is forceful?
Somebody help those of us who know this is really, really bad, but not much else...
I've collected these emails: (it's a start, at least)
mailto:newsonline@bbc.co.uk mailto:TechNews@MSNBC.com mailto:World@MSNBC.com mailto:letters@msnbc.com mailto:Internight@MSNBC.com mailto:opinion@msnbc.com mailto:comments@foxnews.com mailto:feedback@nytimes.com
and the following webpages:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/ http://abc.go.com/email_abc/mail_home.html http://www.cbs.com/now/eframeset/1,1616,311,00.ht
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
Well, if this is real, then what it's becoming true. If it isn't, well we need to make sure it doesn't happen anyway. .no that can verify this at all?
I'd like to know how Jon is posting this if he's had all his machines siezed.
It might also help if he were to post a comment or two. Also, is there anyone in
CSS-auth mirror here
CSS-Auth source, enjoy.
My email addy? should be easy enough.
...we just haven't heard about it. Considering the nature of the two parties, it'd probably be waaaay easier to keep that part of it quiet than it would this part - which is rife with individuals who will SCREAM at the top of their lungs what's going on, every chance they get, to whoever will listen (and some folks that won't) :)
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
Make no mistake about it. Corporattions are drawing a line in the sand with this move. The outcome of this battle will determine weather or not open source can survive. Hey where are our so-called leaders? ESR? Perens? Young? Torwalds? Augistine? your silence is defening. Speak now or forever hold your piece.
War is necrophilia.
Not the most original sentiment, but it's true. :-)
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton
It's time to start hitting these people where it hurts. The pocket book.
I think we need to start an offical boycott of all DVD products (at least anything with the offical DVD logo on it).
What about an "offical" boycott webpage that keeps track of the big guy screwing the little guys. Anyone interested in building one? I think it would be fun.
Quack
steven@SLASHDOTevatt.com
Only drugs and smut you say? ;)
I pity you, I really do.
For the ones, who like me, wonder why this guy bothers getting up in the morning I give you this: http://www.mnc.net/norway/
This might a slightly more accurate picture of what has come out of Norway. And I'm not taking A-HA, M2M or Lene Marlin into account to mention a few
I will not let my software decompile and erase while you discuss this indictment on slashdot!
...and these were on sale BEFORE DECSS EXISTED!
Someone really needs to make sure EFF and the other defense lawyers know about that - there's a giant REAL piracy operation going on and MPAA is paying no attention to it.
Just a simple question, does this not fall under the same area as making a backup of software, and or copying VHS-VHS for personal use? I know some of the issue is the "cracking/Bypassing" of the encryption, but is it illegal to do so for personal purposes without breaking patent/copyright laws for the encryption?
Isn't the DVD CCA's ultimate objective to limit the number of DVD player manufacturers? Isn't the small number of distinct manufacturer's codes available in their scheme proof of the small number of participating manufacturers anticipated? How much is the license (the docs are "$500 per copy per title")? Is it priced to keep out "the little guys"? Isn't it illegal for corporations to collaborate to close a market to competition? Can't the algorithms be pried out of the DVD CCA into the public domain as a result?
-- OpenSourcerers
The software may not have been 'unreleased.' There are a lot of beta testers out there. I don't know for sure if this gentleman is one of them, but it's something to consider.
I'm sorry. What I meant to say was 'please excuse me.'
what came out of my mouth was 'Move or I'll kill you!'
Most of the DVDs I get nowadays are used. Used CD shops in the area have started dealing in DVDs also.
:)
So go find the cheapest one of the lot, buy it, and torch it!
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
I've got a novel idea. Why don't all us self-respecting geeks in the US go on strike to protest this. That's right. We all stop doing computer work. The nation was worried about a crisis in the year 2000 bringing all the computer systems of a halt. I say lets give them one. The nation will grind to a halt without us computer professionals. Many of the companies filing the lawsuits will lose hundreds of millions of dollars each day they care on this senseless litigation. This strike will also hurt the US government, who arguably could be considered the world's biggest user of computers. If US corporations and the US government will not respect us and the work we do on our own time to make computing a better experience for everyone, then they need not have our help when their computers go down, when their databases need to be sorted, and when they need beowulf clusters setup to render their next movie. While this act of civil disobediance may get us fired, there is nothing any court can do about it. Let the punishment fit the crime.
THEY CAN TAKE AWAY OUR JOBS, BUT THEY CAN NEVER TAKE AWAY OUR FREEDOM.
Even if he ultimately wins, and after a few years of protracted struggle gets his computers back, he will have been inconvenienced massively by this action, and any compensation granted will be insignificant. The reasoning goes, such a spectacle will serve to deter others who might mock the authority of the copyright barons.
If you knew you could end up losing your computers, all your files and possibly your freedom, would you publically release something like DeCSS? Probably not, unless you've a yen for martyrdom.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Wonder whether the next wave of web-site cracks will read "FREE JON"...
By going after the person who started all their misery, the MPAA is trying to send a message, like: "No matter where you hide, we will get you. Even if you live in a foreign country, we will destroy your life and your reputation. We have enough money . . . don't think we won't"
Sorry to hear about Jon, but it looks like he's pretty screwed (depending on what exactly Norweigan law states and what he has on his now-seized computers). All the rest of us can do is: mirror mirror mirror. Mirror like crazy. Get free (or cheap) throwaway server space (eg GeoCities) and just put deCSS up. The MPAA can't go after everyone, and the more people that has it up, the probability that any one of us being INDIVIDUALLY busted drops like a stone. It's like an interstate highway . . . the more people that speed, the less probability that any one of the speeders gets ticketed.
Having spent some time in Europe, it's become obvious to me that Europeans trust their governments too much. Sales taxes hover around 20%, income taxes are over 50%, and forget about anything like a Bill of Rights or due process. It's no wonder Europe is still in an economic recession.
From the whois query on mmadb.no at http://www.norid.no/whois/?host=128.39.2.9&query=m madb.no
% Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/db/dbcopyright.html
Domain Information
Domain Name................: mmadb.no
Organization Handle........: MMA14O-NORID
Registrar Handle...........: REG1-NORID
Legal-c Handle.............: PJ21P-NORID
Tech-c Handle..............: DNH1P-NORID
Zone-c Handle..............: DNH1P-NORID
Bill-c Handle..............:
Nameserver Handle..........: NS636H-NORID
Nameserver Handle..........: NS97H-NORID
NORID Handle...............: MMA14O-NORID
Organization Name..........: Micro Media ADB
Organization Number........: 0
Post Address...............: Postboks 13
Postal Code................: N-3283
Postal Area................: Steinsholt
Country....................: Norway
Phone Number...............: +47 33 12 91 22
Fax Number.................: +47 33 12 95 52
Email Address..............: mmadb@online.no
----
This sure doesn't seem like his dad to me. It also is a post office box address. Can someone in Norway confirm the authenticiy of this? Hell, I haven't even seen a post that the NAIPEEC is a real organization. And if this not fake, I apologize for being too skeptical.
Walt
Printing large quantities of counterfeit currency in order to destabilise a country's economy (as Iran and the USSR were said to have done) is considered "economic terrorism". From that, it would be possible for a lawyer to make a link to making counterfeit DVDs, and then to cracking protection.
If the MPAA wanted to prosecute Johansen, would it have a case for extraditing him to face trial in the US?
Read the source:
Not only doesn't their system use the fully-allowed number of bits worth of entropy, but their encryption algorithm was home-grown and (as time has shown) dumb. This defense might be valid if they had used a proper (well-known and well-tested) encryption system.
Anyway -- who says 40 bits is the export limit? Netscape allows 56, and it's much easier to send contraband via HTTPS than via DVDs.
- Tom 7
Aftenposten
Since a few posters have questioned the veracity of the story I searched a few Norwegian news sites for "DeCSS" and found this article from a Norwegian Newspaper dated just before midnight Norwegian time.
- Yet another mirror.
- $65 to the EFF.
- I will not be purchasing any more DVDs while these legal abuses continue.
These actions won't make much of a difference themselves. But there are more of us than MPAA and DVD-CCA lawyers.How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Does anyone know how exactly how these events could have transpired, i.e. how law enforcement agents could have been wielded against Jon based on what he did? What did he do that was illegal, or what are the police claiming? Are they answering to a higher power, that is in turn answering to corporate interests, through the WTO or something similar? (I mean officially, we all know they do it under the table anyway....) What is the power/legal structure invoked here?
You have an broken copy of the original DVD, missing the various unique keys and signatures that your DVD player will not let you read.
Nobody (including me) seems to really understand this. Is there an accurate FAQ somewhere that covers this in detail?
MSK
I exorcised the Win98 and WinNT Wks partitions from this machine over the weekend.
18 GB of nothing but linux. Lots of room for Quake III Arena & Oracle 8.1.5.
congrats.
This evening I discovered that Yahoo supports gaming and messaging on Linux - small victory, but an enjoyable gaming experience.
Paul
.
Someone please run MD5 on the decryption source, so everyone knows they have the real McCoy.
Cheers
Ok, sorry to get your attention like that, but it should be made perfectly clear to these people that if they aren't going to play by the rules, neither will we. I.e. we pull a christian gallery and give out the names and adresses of DVD-CAA lawyers, people who work with the MPAA, people who facilitated this obviously illegal action, and cross out their names when they become irrelevant, one way or another. Of course, this is only if they refuse to play by the rules.
-[ World domination - rains.net ]-
Btw, EVERY go to http://www.xingtech.com/forum/ and post the source to the FORUM
http://www.joeyskaggs.com/html/dog.html
A wonderful media spoofer who shows how the media, individuals, and even police departments can be fooled or pushed into doing things through outrage...
``In May of 1994, Kim Yung Soo (a.k.a. Joey Skaggs), President of Kea So Joo, Inc. sent 1,500 letters to dog shelters around America soliciting all their unwanted dogs for $.10 a pound.......''
You can guess what the reaction was. The rest of the story is there, along with other spoofs and hoaxes by him.. They're very good.
This is just another case of the same thing.. The police being coerced by lots of outraged people calls, in this case its from lawyers representing the MPAA CCA, in that case, by the ``concerned public''.
I do a fair bit of VB consulting. This past weekend, I got so tired of IE crashing and taking all other instances out that I said "screw it" and installed RH 6.1 on both my desktop and laptop. I'll lose a client or two, but what the hell.
:) With Star Office and Netscape loaded, there's not a whole lot I can't do (except write VB, but that will come!)
I was one of the early authors in the Linux arena, porting code back before Christmas of 1991. Sure feels good to have a real OS on all of my machines
-- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com PGP KeyID: 0x0BD32C9B What I'm up to: http://intuitives.mine.nu
Okay, the translation here is difficult at best, but I believe it'll give you the gist of the article, and verify the validity of his claims.
_ _____________
[Økokrim]-raid at [hacker]
Hope this helps!
BTW, I used the translation page at Translation Experts Ltd
_______________________________________________
--
driph
I think this is a fake. He stated that he is
back at home now, but if his computers were
raided how could he have sent the email?
Well, now that the source is public record due to some stroke of genius in the legal system, I wonder what implications that will have on the case? -d1 cat /mnt/cdrom/video_ts/vts_02_1.vob|css-cat -v1P -|mpeg2player -vob -f - ; )
If you really want to get rid of all your MPAA stuff, find a local chapter of Geeks with Guns and a good outdoor range.
If you're in the Pacific Northwest, email me. I'd like to try a carbine out on some DVD equiptment...
TOYWAR!!
Finding God in a Dog
Please email me with the URL of your link to anything relating to the DVD stupidity. Here in australia i think i will be safe. i hope so.
if not, i will fight.
lets overcome
:wq ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ever since DeCSS was first posted about on /. and linked from the oodles of comments, many a /.er has used the oft-quoted mantra: "the cat's out of the bag" or "the horse has escaped the barn" or other such sentiment. They seem to think that just because the "secret"[1] is out, it's all irrelevant. Wrong.
/. mentality is that, once the "secret" is out, the issue becomes all the more relevant. Suddenly there are criminal indictments, lawsuits, and hefty fines being thrown around.
The whole DeCSS issue is an important one that will shape computer politics in the decades to come. The issues at hand, specifically the right of the consumer to reverse engineer products he owns, especially to further interoperability, is a very serious one.
The problem with the
The fact is, DeCSS can be used to make copies of DVDs. This is a serious concern with the movie industry, and they intend to do something about it. The very day that work on DeCSS was started, someone should have been considering the legal implications of the project.
Folks, this issue isn't going to go away until the final verdict is rendered. The MPAA and DVD CCA will try and go all the way to the Supreme Court if they have to; simply saying "cats ut of the bag!" and posting a link isn't doing anything to solve the problem. If nothing else, it is making it worse by possibly implicating yourself in the whole mess.
What can be done? Donate to the EFF to fund the defense. Raise awareness with intelligent conversation and advocacy. However, I believe the most important lesson that we can glean from all this concerns legal issues. The time has passed when we could code first, ask forgiveness later. There's big money and big prison time at stake. Perhaps it's time we sit back and think, if I'm going to hack away at a program/piece of hardware/whatever, 1) is this legal 2) is this ethical and 3) what can I do to ensure that the project STAYS legal and ethical?
This fiasco is a perfect example. The very moment the DVD CCA learned of DeCSS, their lawyers went to work. Can the same be said of ours? Playing catch-up and react is just what they want us to do. It's time we take the initiative.
[1] You'll note secret is in quotations. That is because the issue of CSS being a trade secret is still in debate.
I asked this before over in Katz' latest column, but didn't get much in responses.
I'm surprised that the idea of data haven isn't seriously being considered by open source and free speech advocates. The basic concept is straight out of Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, although the idea has been around longer then that.
Someone, in a free country with good laws and a good legal system (i.e. not the US), supported by hackers and privacy supporters all over the world, should set up some servers. These could host reverse engineered open-source programs, CVS repositories, cryptography software, text documents, and other free speech related stuff.
Programs like DeCSS could be hosted there, immune to search and seizure, and out of reach of lawsuits that are only started to bully and threaten.
We need something like this now! It will be essential if reverse-engineering does become illegal in more places, affecting software like Samba and hundreds of other useful programs.
Questions I would really like answered:
- Is there something stupid about this idea that I don't realize?
- Does something like this exist already?
- If so, can I support it?
- What would be a good country to do this in?
- What would it take to start one?
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
"HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
Jon Johansen's homepage no longer exists. I don't know if this is a sign of the truth of this story, but all information is useful.
Sam TH
AbiWord Developer
There is nothing wrong with a company wanting to protect its intellectual property from being copied or otherwise tampered with. The MPAA and the companies involved in these DeCSS legal matters are within their right to prosecute violations of their intellectual property rights.
That said, DeCSS is not a DVD copying program. Xing (that's the rumor I keep hearing) is the company responsible for the first in a series of events which led to the creation of DeCSS. I think it is very bad judgement on the part of the prosecution to target teenage programmers in an attempt to make examples of them. Instead, these companies should be going after Xing for being careless in their product implementation. After all, Xing surely has deeper pockets and more potential impact on the industry than a small handful of teenage programmers and web site operators do.
Yes, from the open-source community's perspective, it sucks that DVD and CSS are not open standards. But the open-source community needs to learn that it isn't right (or wise) to just go around "breaking open" closed standards without permission.
Did anyone in the open-source community try approaching the MPAA or whatever organization(s) bear responsibility for the DVD/CSS standards, to see if they could work cooperatively and peacefully on Linux support for DVD playback? If so, they should be praised for taking the right approach. Even if the MPAA (or responsible organization(s)) denied the open-source community access to this information, that still doesn't make it right to go and "break open" the closed standards.
The people who took advantage of the information they saw in the carelessly-implemented Xing product, and who sidestepped negotiations with the industry entirely, do deserve punishment. They knowingly and willingly violated intellectual property rights and trade secrets.
Still, I believe that they do not deserve to have their homes raided, their equipment needlessly confiscated, and their lives potentially ruined. They didn't murder anyone, they didn't benefit financially from their acts, and they didn't even make a small dent in the industry's incredibly ludicrous daily revenue. Give them probation or community service, or fine them some large (but not life-threatening) sum of money, and then let them go as your point has been made.
- "It's just a matter of opinion!" - PRIMUS
Just don't do it in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, as that carbine is now an 'assault weapon'. (because its less than 30 inches long, whereas the feds say a rifle is 26 inches or longer since 1934.)
Nope. DVDs are easily manufacturable in Hong Kong and mainland China now. In fact, someone made Star Wars trilogies into DVDs from their LaserDisc counterpart (which is still much higher quality than VCDs)
Another (Texas) mirror for your illegal code-spreading pleasure.
Bryan Klingner, MCSE, MCP+I
got it here
..the people who can help. and in this case, that's everyone. This is at the bottom of the deck, but i'll make a go anyway...
I feel that there are too many people who unfortunately dont know enough to give a damn. I don't have many resources..but i want to help. I've looked at many online resources to try to get a better grasp of what's issues are a stake for the present and the future. There are technical issues that the average joe(tm) doesn't want to understand. Give us MORE information on what we can do. We're pumped already! Post flyers. Talk about it at your LUG meetings . Inform the public.
Freedom of the press was intended to inform the people of the things that matter the most. Changes in their lives. If you are in ANY form of media, and you are reading this, ask yourself this. If you enjoy the thought of improving people lives by reporting the issues impartially and without prejudice, will you sit idly by as people who now control mainstream media outlets report the "news" that they think is important to hear for the best interests of business? Or do the people have a right to press and free speech that lets the public decide for itself what is the fact of the matter?
Mer|in: I wonder who owns "Court TV"?
Linux users groups are non-profit organizations. Public access television?
Alot of people still don't know what's going on. Make your voice heard. When people get curious, they'll start diggin and asking questions.
I'm ranting.....
This is very important. The media war is getting ugly.
Be proactive. Because like it or not....there are too many issues to list that are at stake that we will be fighting for in the years to come.
Suggestions? Comments?
you never lose in ure razorblade shoes......Beck-Hotwax
Though IANAL et al, I am really saddened by all those tragical suits against smart programmers and reverse engineers. I mean, this ain't no magic, this ain't no piracy, this is work and brainpower.
... There is always an access to /dev/dsp too, so is there a chance to prevent us to 'su' as root on our own PC and catch /dev/dsp's input?
So how could we make things clearer to the judges ? We, as tech-aware people, have to inform everyone that "the times they are a changin'" ! There is no doubt we'll always find a guy smart enough to reverse engineer any protection against wild copy. So isn't it time to think about new ways of supporting creation ?
I think we need another Bruce Perens, maybe more specialized, to act as the Voice of the Community about those music / video / DVD things. Judges and governments have to understand that software and digital information changes the rules. There is nothing closest to an MP3 than the 'cp' of it
Well, maybe it is a little too late 4 me...
gdon
Right on. I am all for crontab entries.
;)
*/1 * * * * exec echo "Stop your shit" | mail
Don't they have email to SMS service in America/Norway. I would like it even more if we could spam the shit out of there cellphones.
Hmm there must be people with war-dailers there
too. Spam their land-lines.
As I understand it, one of the key points in the DVD encryption scheme is a (more or less) unwritable, unreadable section of the disc which contains part of the information needed to decrypt the disc. The other part is contained within the DVD player itself. (Each DVD player manufacturer licenses a key to include in its firmware. This info + the special sector = the info you need to be able to decrypt)
This part of the copy-protection scheme is (as far as I can tell) similar to the way Sony (tries to) keep people from pirating Playstation games. Every PSX unit's firmware is programmed to only play games with the correct localization code and the correct format - and the localization code is written in a way that commercially available CD burners and the like can't duplicate. That doesn't mean that a person can't chip their playstation (bypass the security on the end-user unit), but it does make it very difficult for people without some -serious- equipment to pirate games to run on normal units.
If DeCSS is outlawed, only outlaws will have DeCSS.
---GEC
Bow-ties are cool.
OK, I'm sure this has been covered before, but I'm slow so bear with me. I am abhorred at all of this, as are most of you, but honestly, I don't feel there's much I can do. One thing I know I *can* do, though, is give a few bucks. Let's say I wanted to assist this guy in his legal defense, or just contribute to the cause. Who would I give my money to? And how? --Adam
The players tried to take the field. The marching band refused to yield...
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=5 712180
Translation of this article is also coming up.
Do you really think this member of MoRE, an admitted cracker, PAID for a CPP copy of W2K? His other machines are linux and freebsd - no $ here. THERE is your need for a major reality check. There were no localized versions for his country and CPP was only available in limited areas and he is not in one of them. I think it's MORE than safe to say it's a pirated copy.
I'm suprised it took the government THIS long to take him down. Countersuit? He won't have a suit left after they finish with him. It IS legal to reverse engineer there - but NOT for the purposes of using that info to steal intellectual properties, which he did.
You want to know the reason why things like this keep on happening in our society? I'll tell you why. There are 3 types of people in this world: Wolves, Sheep, and Herders. The reason why these companies and agencies get away with this crap is because the sheep let them. Our society is built on laziness and apathy. I'd guess that about 70-80% of the people of the world are sheep, 15-20% are wolves and 5-10% are herders. The Sheep in society don't dig for information. They just eat whatever the mainstream media force-feeds down their throats while they get bloated and fat from it while corporations pay off the media so this kind of stuff never gets out to mainstream. Hypothetically speaking, if we, the Herders, were all unified in boycotting organizations that use these tactics, they would still turn out mad profits! So what can we do to cut down on Wolves? Turn the Sheep into Herders. The only way I see to do that is to have an open medium for info. and discussion on subjects (the Internet), and teach the youth to not only use it, but to kill laziness inherent in today's society. Teach children to work hard and find things out for themselves instead of accepting whatever is force-fed to them. Only then can I see a change in this vicious corporate rape-and-pillage cycle.
Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
"Select few"? I've got a copy of the beta, and I hate 'em. They'll give it out to damn near anyone who works for an OEM.
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
Bam, created the mirror in 5 minutes...
DeCss, for your pleasure
sig?
After reading the RIAA suing MP3.COM article the other day here, I immediately donated $100 to the EFF and bought a DeCSS T-Shirt.
RIAA and MPAA and whoever else can go to hell!!
I never bought many CDs anyways and now I don't plan to ever buy anymore, except from independent artists. Anyways, since most of the major record labels songs also are played on the radio...why buy anyways?? Many of my friends just rip songs from their friends' CDs, or grab them off the net, or if desparate copy the song right off the radio.
The music industry has forgotten that they're not selling music, they're selling an experience. The Greatful Dead understood this and encouraged copying and distributing of their music - and they prospered for over 30 years!
Mirror:
http://cubicmetercrystal.com/decss/
Make a mirror:
http://cubicmetercrystal.com/decss/mirror.html
Next time it may be YOUR box they steal.
I don't know if this has been suggested before, but it would probably be a good idea if people wrote their local newspapers to get our side of the story out. We all know that the decss will be used to play DVD's on multiple platforms, but others don't. If we are lucky, maybe we can get some newspapers to write feature stories on this issue.
The Econcomic Crime Departement apprehended and charged computer genius.
16-year old beeing interrogated until midnight.
After a charge from american filmcompanies, ECD yesterday took action against the computer-celebrity Jon Johansen (16) from Steinsholt in Vestfold.
The youths home was ransacked, and the police confiscated two computers, and both the 16-year old and his father was interrogated until midnight.
Both he and his father is charged with breaking the "punish-law" (law of crimes, I guess) and the law of artworks, with two and three years imprisonment, respectively, as possible punishments. The reason for this charge is Jon Johansen's contribution in the development of DeCSS, a program allowing copying of DVD-films.
Father and Son charged.
- We have charged Jon and Per Johansen on behalf of MPA and DVD CCA, affirms lawyer Espen Tøndel at the lawyer firm Simonsen Musæus. MPA (Motion Picture Assosiation) consists of the gigants Walt Disney, Sony Pictures, MGM, Paramount Pictures, 20th Centry Fox, Universal Studio and Warner Bros. That is, the seven biggest movie companies in the USA. DVD CCA (Copyright Control Assosiation) controls and protects the copyright of DVD-products.
In other words, there are powerful forces now attacking the norwegian 16-year old. But Tøndel denies that Jon is made scapegoat to make an example.
- No, it is important to make the point that it is illegal to intrude into these systems and films, says Tøndel.
In almost 8 hours has Jon Johansen been in interrogation. He had to leave his mobile phone, all passwords on his computer, and a number of CD-reckords. But he isn't frightened by the serious charges.
_Not Copyprotected_
- The charge is wrong. The codes on DVD-discs are not copy-protected, but a protection against playing them. We have made it possible to play DVD-films on our computers, he claimed to VG tonight.
- The film companies will try to control who can play what movies on DVD-players they have approved, with their codes and zones. That wish, we do not respect. This is about freedom of speech, says young Johansen.
So far, they are the only ones charged, after MPA last week won a demand in american court, that all links on the Internet refering to DeCSS had to be removed. But he does not regret standing forth with full name after the news about DeCSS got out.
- Somebody has got to fight this battle, he laughs, and prepares for a long night. A full rapport of ECD's actions will be written and put out on the net site www.slashdot.com. From there it will be spread around the world during the night and early morning hours.
_Raised Eyebrows_
Jon Johansen became a computer celebrity in november last year when it became known that he together with two friends in the group MoRE cracked the codes that were to protect the new DVD-movies against copying. The news made big waves in the international computer community - and in the american film industry.
Jon, then 15 years old, was contacted by the lawyer-firm Simonsen Musæus, who told him that Internett-links to DeCSS had to be removed. Simultaneously, the MPA mobilized in the american court system. Their demands of removal of links was first denied. But last week their demands were met in both California and New York.
(C) Copyright VG
To everyone who has posted the source, you have done a great thing. If you haven't in one way or another done so, do it now. Put it on deja.com, on a page cache on google. Message boards whenever you can (tastefully). Gopher sites! (sic) Buy that really cool t-shirt from copyleft.net!
sporty
back once again I'm the renegade masta'
---
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
It's occurred to me that there's a batch of DeCSS mirrors out there, but no way to locate them besides the random /. post. In an effort to change this, i've stuck up a list page so that people with mirrors can mail their urls to me (see my address above or use the mailto on the page) at http://decss.linux0wnsyou.com
-dk
-dk
Dream with the feathers of angels stuffed beneath your head.
Are you surprised that you were indicted? I'm surprised you didn't have a 'heart attack', or worse.
I was rather curious about the current DVD situation and would search using google for some dvd ripping, after it IS legal for me to copy my dvd's =).
I ran across a rather interesting site that tells you how to copy DVD's WITHOUT USING DECSS! Here's some nice stuff for the defense lawyers to use
Ripping dvd's using Dvdrip-
http://www.fixup.net/alldvd.htm
Dvdrip-
http://dvdpiracy.com/ (sure the site seems to be a piracy site, but hey, it's legal for me to copy the DVD's that _I_ bought, so it's fine... i think... IANAL..)
So technically, you don't need to use DeCSS to copy dvd's. Why don't the RIAA go after this site instead? Why just DeCSS? Why are they screwing over DeCSS when there is a true legitimate reason?
--Sadfsdaf
They'll care if we burn them in front of their main office =)
Anybody remember the 'Death of Disco' during a White Sox game at Commisky park in Chicago during the late 70's? A local DJ had enticed the fans to bring disco albums to the game and they started a huge bon-fire in center field during the 7th inning stretch.
LRJ
select few, in the same sense that AOL CD's are sent out to the select few, then. :b
Please pardon the space in "warewolf" on the second link,
da w00t.
da w00t. mtfnpy?
Men, hva har dette på /. å gjøre, du din Anonyme Feiging ?
- The Truth about DVD CSS cracking by MoRE and [dEZZY/DoD] -
-----------------------------------------------
Date: 4th of November 1999.
By: [dEZZY/DoD], [MultiAGP & German dood of MoRE]
This document is written cooperatively by the two groups
that independently and simultaneously cracked the DVD Content
Scrambling System, in order to straighten out mass media
confusion.
DoD -> Drink or Die: "warez bearz from Russia and Beyond"
MoRE -> Masters of Reverse Engineering
[dEZZY/DoD] alone is the author of DoD DVD Speed Ripper.
MoRE is a new group and they are the authors of DeCSS.
Lately, Jon Johansen of MoRE has been pretty much all over
the news in Norway, though he had NOTHING to do with the actual
cracking of the DVD CSS protection. Yes, it was MoRE who did
DeCSS, but the actual crack was not a team effort, MoRE didn't
even exist back when the anonymous German (who is now a MoRE
member) cracked it...
Most of the papers chose a headline very similar to this:
"15-year old Norwegian cracked the DVD-code".
They probably did this because they wanted to make a big
Norwegian "Wooohoooo" out of it. This was also pretty much
the contents of the TV show "Vestfold-sendingen" where they
brought up matters from Vestfold, Norway where Jon Johansen
lives.
In most newspapers they vagely included the name MoRE, and
that DeCSS was a team effort, but neither MoRE nor DoD liked
the headlines. Jon's comment on this matter is:
"I never told the media that I had cracked the dvd encryption.
What I told them, was that we (MoRE) had made an app called
DeCSS which would decrypt dvd movies and let them be played
off your hd, or off dvdrs if you have a dvd burner. I always
used _we_ and _MoRE_ when talking to them. I never said anything
about me or my position in the group.
Now that the storm is over, I see that all they were after,
was to get a big story. They even included some of "my" quotes,
which I never said. When media starts making up stuff, it's really
sad. I know that this has been done before in Norwegian media,
regarding the cooperation between a computer group at my school
and the school people in charge of the network. All I can say is
that I'm very sorry that the media twisted my words, and even lied,
to make it appear as I had done the cracking myself. I'm pretty
sure that I will do everything to avoid the media in the future,
but if I'm forced to talk with them, I'll have to get them to
sign an agreement. Again, I apologize on the behalf of Norwegian
press, and I hope that this document will make everything clear.
The truth shall set you free."
DoD DVD Speed Ripper was developed by [dEZZY/DoD] at the
same time as DeCSS. The first release of DoD's app (which
came out a couple of weeks before the first release of DeCSS)
did not work with all (WB) titles, like The Matrix. This was
known by [dEZZY/DoD] at the time of his release. MoRE decided
to wait until they could fix this. In short time, [dEZZY/DoD]
solved the problem and MoRE's top coder/disassembler from
Germany used that information to get DeCSS working with every
movie before they released it, along with a GUI. DeCSS was then
the first application which decrypted ALL dvd titles, since DoD
had not released a new version to the public. How MoRE got
their hands on the information by [dEZZY/DoD], seems to have
something to do with the Linux community...
Why Drink or Die didn't want to release a new version so soon,
was because warez sites nuke programs that are too close in
release (minimum 2-3 weeks). Meanwhile when DeCSS came out, it
caused DoD to delay any Windows release until a GUI version of
their Speed Ripper was done. However, they released a Linux
version of their ripper late October 1999. As for the new Windows
version of the Speed Ripper, [dEZZY/DoD] has been very busy with
his education and hence the ripper is extremely delayed.
[dEZZY/DoD] already got the idea of reverse engineering a DVD
player for the CSS code back in late summer 1998. He was not able
to do it at the time since he did not have access to a DVDROM. In
the beginning of 1999, MoRE's German member also got the idea.
[dEZZY/DoD] and MoRE's German member got CSS decryption code
working at the same time (middle of September 1999), without
having shared info (although they knew about each other). After
[dEZZY/DoD] solved "the problem", MoRE's German member, as stated
above, implemented these changes and added them to DeCSS for
release.
Before DeCSS was developed and released, MoRE had already sent
the source for the decryption to their contact in the Linux DVD
community, Derek Fawcus . This is the reason
why one of Wired's news reporters was put on the case.
[dEZZY/DoD] also had relations in the Linux DVD community (who
does not want to be mentioned), but decided not to release the
source code publicly (at least not for the moment).
Enjoy the software!
- Jon Johansen [MoRE]
- anonymous German cracker [MoRE]
- [dEZZY/DoD]
Untouchable countries are hard to find. My plan: distributed data havens. Master servers that don't have content, just databases of mirrors. The client has controls for what sort of banned software you want, crypto, trade secret/rev eng, etc. It wouldnt be that hard, and (soon, really, RSN) I was going to write it. Perl and SQL should be fine. Of course, you need some sort of centralized server to do the database stuff, but thats not hard. Anyway, thats my plan. If enough people are interested, I will start a sourceforge project for it. The overall design is mostly done, I just need to start coding. Drop me a line if you are interested.
--Nick
I've started a fund for this. I won't be keeping any donations, they'll all be going to support Jon and others "accused" by the DVD-CCA.
http://cnode.dhs.org
Yes, I am sure that it is possible to get Hong Kong DVDs for $3, if you happen to be in Hong Kong.
When I first heard about the availability of HK DVDs over the net, it sounded great, but by the time I added up shipping and associated charges, the price was as high as a normal dvd in the States. At that price, I will buy the legit version.
The cost of copying legit material is just not worth it, for CDs or DVDs. I keep hearing about this threat of people copying CDs, yet the only CDs I see copied are either compilations, to save space, or material that is not available comercially. And perhaps there is a legitimate concern about people copying concert recordings. But it just doesn't seem to be worth it.
Sure, people try to copy discs, and by the time they have purchased the recorder, the bandwidth, the media, the money expended is enough ot make copying worthless.
Perhaps there is some easy cheap way to copy CDs or DVDs and sell them on the street corner. I have yet to find anyone who can do this. So long as the cost of the media is more than, say, a dollar, the recording companies will have nothing to worry about. A dollar is a very reasonable price for the storage and stability of a CD, and I don't think that there is anything to worry about.
is just don't buy DVD's or DVD drives/players - it's called a boycott.
/. Write letters to the editor of your local newspaper(s), stage protest rallys to get the news media involved, post fliers, explaining the case and why it is bad for consumers, around local video rental stores and electronic stores. For the real radically inclined, create some urban legends like watching DVD's can raise your chances of catching a STD or something.
/. will get us nowhere.
We (as consumers) also need to get the news out to the people not on the web and reading
Basically let the MPAA know that these monopolistic actions will hurt them more than the pirating.
Believe me I know it sucks (I just bought my DVD player about two weeks before this shit hit the fan), but hitting them in the wallet is really the only way these people will get the point - bitching about all this on
LRJ
Prior to the 1980's, if a sufficiently talented electrical engineer wanted to build his own audio equipment (and many audiophiles DID do this) he was free to do so. In this case I am specifically talking about a turntable/record player. There was nothing prohibiting a talented electrical engineer from building his own record player which would allow him to play and LISTEN TO his record collection.
This example could be extended to reel-to-reel tape machines as well as cassette decks, and yes even music CD players, today. For that matter, someone out there is even capable of building a Sony 3348, 48-Track 24-bit, 96Khz pro studio multi-track recorder. And if these people have done their job right SOUND will actually come out of the speakers that the device is hooked to. I'll say it again:
Anyone sufficiently talented is capable of building a device which will render an intelligible playback for whatever media they have chosen to build a player, audio or video
UNTIL NOW.
Now, if I were inclined to do so, I could buy various components and build a DVD player, but without prior knowledge of the encryption algorithm used to encrypt the data on the discs, and a valid decryption key, I would be unable to actually watch and listen to the DVD that I put into my machine.
What has suddenly changed, that no longer allows me to play a DVD that I purchased in a store and legally own? It would seem (to me) that this is the crux of the issue.
As I was composing this message, something else occurred to me that distills my point into a far more palatable and less wordy argument:
Over the length of my entire life, I have yet to purchase a book whose text was encrypted.
Ignore Alien Orders
I hope this explains why the domain is registered to Micro Media ADB and not Jon Johansen's father.
It's worth metioning that there are loads of dummy organizations solely registered in order to get funny domain names. Examples from the top of my head, and what they translate to are:
The translation is from Name Policy for .no NORID is the domain registration authority for the .no domain, if you didn't guess that already...
We know who they are, and we saw what they did.
Think about this: These are people who depend on the products of technology to make their money. They need geeks. They don't know what they're doing. They probably believed it when they told people they had an uncopyable format. They certainly could have used a secure encryption technique. They didn't.
They need us. They need us bad. They are attacking those they need, just when they need coders worse than ever. There are going to be many times down the road when they need more intelligent coders (like Jon) than they've got. And every time they need one, we'll be there. But they'll never know whether they have a coder who's smart enough to know what they need (and, therefore, smart enough to know what they did).
They haven't got a chance.
If you haven't read Frank Herbert's short story "Committee of the Whole," you owe it to yourself to do it now.
Perhaps it is time for us to stand up and say, "I am Spartacus! I am Jon Lech Johansen! I am a coder! I reverse engineered CSS!"
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Yes, it's really him.
http://www.cnn.no/TEKNOLOGI/IT/ 0001/25/5838915.html if you can read norwegian.
-- TK
The Norway Post is out of bed now, and has the story in English
Not much detail, though.
Observation on "Our Side vs The World":
- No. of provisional wins: ~ 2 (M$/DoJ, CDA)
- No. of effective wins: 0
- No. of heavyweight cases against: 10000000000
- Big money supports which side: against
- Politics supports which side: against
Conclusion: There is absolutely no cause for celebration, no precedent for success, and numerous reasons for pessimism.
Why then do so many posters here seem to think that appealing to the law and/or government is going to deliver to us the world we want? This looks like extraordinary wishful thinking to me.
Fighting a planetful of power politics, business greed, visionary blindness and establishment inertia is about as likely to succeed as ploughing your way through an iceberg a thousand times your size.
Don't bother. Route around the problem. There are more ways than one, and some good ones are bound to emerge if we put our thinking caps on.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Neither Jon Johansen og MoRE did not crack the DVD encryption code, according to MoRE themselves.
...
The actual crack was done by some anonymous german guy (who now is a member of MoRE).
MoRE (including Jon Johansen) did DeCSS, which is just the GUI for breaking the DVD encryption, based on this german guys work.
Makes one believe that Økokrim interrogates people entirely based on "the facts" written in papers
If this is the case, then the quesiton of who nudged who to get this to happen may be of real interest.
(yet another slashdot nerd with a probably wrong correction)
- -
I thought that it was Bernoulli that found out that sh*znit could float
------------------------------------------
Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
This is typical of Norwegian police in cases like this. I remember in the old BBS days... It wasn't uncommon for them to seize stereos and phones and printers, and even power chords and alarm clocks... Luckily the courts are a lot more cluefull than the police (I've yet to encounter a Norwegian policeman/woman that could even write passable Norwegian...)
Can not you just copy it bit-for-bit? Who the fuck cares if it is encrypted or triple encrypted - the copy will work just the same. That's how all that illegal copies you can get in some (hm..my home) countries are done - duplicated on a factory bit for bit.
CSS is for control of PLAYING, not COPYING, dummy.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Here it is...the e-mailadress to the norwegian lawer who pressed charges: etondel@simu.no ...need I say more?
As for reverse engineering, it is legal in Norway and in almost all other countries in Europe too.
Alright, enough is enough.
:) )
/. gets too crowded ;) )
I want to know if there's any chance we can counter sue, on what issues, how much, where, and who can do it.
I myself am located in Sweden (that's next to Norway, fyi.), and don't have the time or legal knowledge to do something like this myself, but I will gladly support anyone who can and will do this. Is there any chance the EFF will do something like this? Or at least backing those who do sue?
I'm not talking about Norway only now, I'm talking about counter-sueing on every possible front, in as many countries as is applicable.
If they want to play rough, then so should we, on their own field, with their own methods. They may have the big money, but we have the numbers, and if every single one of us put in a few $ each, I'm convinced we could match them.
(Just look at how widespread the DeCSS source is by now
We can sit here and whine all we want while they trample us, but if we want to see some results, we should really enmass a counter strike on their own field. Answering how/who/what/where to sue is a good place to start I believe.
If there is any need for it, I'll gladly contribute with webspace and mailing list for such an issue. (In case
Cheers,
CoolGopher
PS. Those of you who haven't joined EFF yet should do so (that includes me, and I plan on doing it as soon as I get home from work today. I can't afford it, but I can afford it even less not to).
Because they didn't think to encrypt it.
.wavs around to play their music. Without mp3 there would be a lot less piracy. And the RIAA is complaining about that. Duh.
Secondly they are complaining now that it's easy to swap mp3's around. Even in this day and age of huge hard drive and big bandwidth, your average techno pirate isn't going to keep 40-100 MB
Thirdly a movie can cost several orders of magnitude to produce than a musical album. The MPAA has a lot more to lose.
From what I heard on Norwegian radio, he was
reported to the police by the MPA(A), and then
the police raided his house and brought him in
for questioning. If the police find that they
have a case against him, he will be procecuted
by the norwegian government.
So it that piracy... or liberalisation?
Karma makes sense. It makes a lot more sense if you add reincarnation.
www.okokrim.no okokrim@okokrim.no Other gov-sites: ----------------- dep.no odin.dep.no www.norge.no Make use of these ;)
--- Martin
Right, when Big Business [tM] try strongarm tactics on the Little People (etoys, amazon) what can we do? Why don't we start boycotting the MPAA and it's products? i.e. we stop watching films. Surely we can survive without the Matrix DVD. Launch a public campaign, that's what I say - start hitting them in the market.
They start pressuring governments now? Well, that's the nature of the Trans-National Company. The worlds largest companies have sales which exceend the Gross National product of all but 15 countries in the world. So, they have all the muscle.
However, they are made out of people. They're playing rough, why don't we? Single out individuals in their companies, the figureheads, and rip their credibilities publicly. After all, that's what they are doing to ALT2600, the EFF and poor little Jon.
Right now it just looks as if it's only the hacker subculture that cares. However, a public boycott of DVD's may show them that we mean business (who actually buys DVDs, but us lot?).
.my 2p
Well, the latest CNN article on these cases mentions that the MPAA is suing on the basis that the actions of the defendants violates the DMCA- not the other reasons that were mentioned in the earlier California injunction attempted by the DSS-CAA (?) people. Personally, I think that the first was just a ruse to test their viability of an actual suit. Obviously, they thought they could win...
/. like to think that they are not "political" - stop fooling yourselves. You became political when you started reading this post down to here. You already are a political target, simply based upon which software project you may happen to contribute to, one that may be targetted just like De-CSS. Or, for that matter, even using Open Source on the wrong day.
d vd.idg/index.html
2 81:@@@S
As for the Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998 (DMCA), I have included the urls below to the US Congressional record and history on the law. Unfortunately, the DMCA was voted on in a voice vote, not a roll-call, so there is NO written congressional record of who voted for it. The next best thing I can do is MAYBE finding the C-Span tapes for that day, since C-Span does record all the voice votes.
Originally, I had been hoping to find who the guilty parties were for passing the DMCA, and then post their names here...unfortunately, their tracks are pretty well covered.
Here is what I can recommend for those of you who want to become more politically involved, beyond just ponying up to the EFF & ACLU(which you should probably do anyways)-
Become more involved with your local Congressional Rep. Most of these people vote on a bill because some colleague of theirs said it was a good idea. If they have another resource in the form of a good opinion on issues technical, they might vote with more intelligence. Might. Why I say the Reps and not the Senators is that the Reps are there to represent your interests, the Senators are their for their state as a whole. Also, the Reps tend to be more underfunded, therefore more welcoming and appreciative of any help.
Become a resource for those Reps that you feel would benefit you. This is what politics is all about- rewarding those who benefit you, and punishing those who do not (not my quote, but one that is very old and unfortunately true). Create Slashdot style forums for them online (the source is out there), manage those forums, make them accessable to the Rep and their staff so they can pull good data from them.
Learn from your local ACLU reps how to prepare a brief for Congress. Then submit those briefs to your Senators and Reps on all issues technological. Remember, they killed their office of tech that used to do this; it doesn't mean that all of them wanted that to happen.
Cross-post any information you send out to other sources, like the local ACLU branch, your local political party committee, and any other supporting local organizations etc. I know some people on
Here are the URLS:
CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/19/eff.
DMCA timeline: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:HR02
The only reason I post AC is because I can't seem to register an account.
DeSade
mdafds@yahoo.microsoft.com
remove any OS's that ship from redmond to reply
Has anyone set up a legal defense fund? Is such a thing even appropriate in Norway? (Is is a "loser pays" system, or a "pay no matter what" system?)
What's the best way to send US currency? Convert it and send it, or send it and let them convert?
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
In fact they are very bias against us and for the industry that they are part of. Most of them are own by members of the MPAA that is doing the sueing anyway. This is so frustrating....
- Etam
Why not do unto the MPAA as was done unto the Scientologists? Set up a mirror in Sweden, and wait for the Corporate Drones to sue. The Swedish constitution provides for "public papers" (essentially anything that passes through the government - including court documents) to be archived and made available - even if they're trade secrets or copyrighted. The moment it hits a court, anyone anywhere in the world will be able to acquire a copy, and there's not a damn thing the MPAA could do about it. Idiot/Savant
We need more people in this world like Jon Johnsansen. Without brave people like him in this world would be a lot worse off. Companies that don't develop secure products in the first place shouldn't be rewarded or protected and be allowed to profit from their shoddy development. They should be punished so they can learn from their mistakes. The blame solely belongs with them for cutting corners, not with those who reveal their weaknesses. Instead of embracing these "hackers" for their work in "debugging", governments and corporations around the world rush to imprison or sue every time someone proves once again their naivety in their attitudes towards the digital age. Long live the Open Source movement. The net is a democracy. Always has, Always will! Kevin Mitnick, Jon Johnsansen, who's next? You? I'm proud to support Electronic Frontiers Australia. http://www.efa.org.au. Please sign their petition and stop Australia's Howard government becoming a digital totalitarian regime.
-- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
more people should see this
--
in a world of deceit, open your eyes
--
you must amputate to email me
i read all replies to my comments
Before we all gather the pitchforks for a Big Movement, it might be helpful to be pointed toward info on relevant laws in Norway.
We American's have constitutional restrictions on "Search & Seizure" and requirements for due process and such, what about Norway?
All I know about Norway is some crap about Vikings, and I'm pretty sure I'm wrong.
-sig-
more specifically, here is the URL of the department that sued Jon Johansen;
:-)
http://okokrim.no/indexh.htm.
This page contains telephone number, fax
number and email adress
I Couldn't find any pages in english.
more specifically, here is the URL of the department that raided Jon Johansen home;
:-)
http://okokrim.no/indexh.htm.
This page contains telephone number, fax
number and email adress
I Couldn't find any pages in english.
The main argument from DVD CCA is that the revese engeneering was done in an unlawful way.
What happens to this argument if someone does it again with obviously legal means. Then the tradesecret would be known to all legaly, and there would be now point in stopping the illegal one.
allow from xyz
.*law.* [OR] .*weil.* .* some_red_herring.html
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST}
RewriteCond %{REMOTE_ADDR} ^38\.228\.47\. [OR]
RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST}
RewriteRule
This should keep most sharks, and especially those from Weil, Gotshal & Manges out of your mirror list. If you really want to do it well, grab a list of Class C addresses, and then run a pattern matching program to get a list of likely lawyers offices worldwide, and shut them all out using REMOTE_ADDR.
Say no to software patents.
Jack Valenti might have to get himself a real job.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Anybody got the DeCSS source tattoed onto their head/back/body/ass yet? :-)
-Ekapshi
The non-free side of these pipes would be subject to lawsuits faster than you can blink. And then you'd have a data haven alright, but not on the Internet...
The Eternity project already does this (implemented a slightly different way, though)
print "yet another p{ython,erl} hacker\n",
In other words offensive and extremely off topic
IMHO: crap!
What the...? I think I saw a penguin...
Do the MPA actually have any proof that DeCSS has been used to pirate DVD's? If they don't actually have any DVD's that they can prove were pirated using DeCSS, then surely its quite a hard case to prove.
Why is always the hackers that "claim" things and the and the MPAA always just states the facts?
To Slashdot: Why don't u remove this well spoken natzi shit? we don't need to hear about the poor norwegian child... coz we r doing just fine.
No, I don't speak Norwegian. But I can make out just enough from what little German I know to see that there are several stories about a programmer name Jon Johansen involving DVDs.
Try this story or these search results. Hmmm... anyone know a Norwegian Bablefish?
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Ever heard of Napster? It is a tool that allows pirated MP3s to spread across the internet like wildfire. If there were some way of putting an mp3 header on a .tar.gz file that would be a great way of distributing it.
Napster is basically a database of personal anonymous ftp servers.
-- 2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2
It is all in norwegian, and ment for Norwegian
readers. I just hope the government i Norway
will realize what a farse these trials are.
The protest can be found at:
http://linuxguiden.linpro.no
It IS legal to reverse engineer there - but NOT for the purposes of using that info to steal intellectual properties, which he did.
?? For the putposes of stealing ??
I guess we all should worry, if reading DVD's under linux is considered stealing
Ost99
Logic is a wonderful thing but doesn't always beat actual thought.
---- Sig. gone.
It is legal to reverse engineer in Norway
----- I wonder if Arkady was a linux user?
Who is Arkady?
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
First thought is that the authenticity of the fax is not determined.
A citizen of Norway
"The future is already here,
it's just not evenly distributed yet"
"The future is already here,
it's just not evenly distributed yet"
- William Gibson
If he don't have the money, then he can probably get a good laweyer court appointed and paid by the courts.
Wait until he asks for help. Save the money for someone who really needs it.
BTW, Jon Bing, _the_ Norwegian expert in this field says that the case against Jon Johansen is rather good.
I think it depends on which viewpoint one presents, we've had a heated debate about this at work today, and it's about 50/50.
The Speedy Viking
Nothing exists exept atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion.
blah blah blah....
A better idea is the legal equivalent of Death By A Thousand Cuts. If a thousand people filed a thousand lawsuits against the MPAA in a thousand courts in a thousand jurisdictions, the MPAA would have to hire a thousand lawyers to fight a thousand cases. They can ignore e-mails, but they cannot ignore lawsuits.
Think Gulliver and Lilliput. The Lilliputians were able to subdue Gulliver by sheer weight of numbers, and that's how you fight big corporations.
Alternatively, a thousand people all join in a big class action lawsuit, and fight the MPAA on level terms. There's good grounds for countersuits against the MPAA. Antitrust, restriant of trade, even defamation and libel can be made to stick if you throw it hard enough.
Antitrust: They have an illegal monopoly in player software, and will not allow competition.
Restraint of trade: They are forcing users of the Linux users to use Windows to view DVDs.
Defamation and Libel: They are saying that everyone associated with DeCSS is a pirate who is intent on denying the MPAA their fair slice of royalties. They have to prove that in court, and if they can't or won't, hit them with a defamation or libel lawsuit. I find the piracy claims to be extremely libellious to Linux users, and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with these claims.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
This could all be done without the WTO, through treaties from before 1940... though later ones help. One of the things that it looks like the shills are going to use are copyright laws.. ie JoeBob broke copyright by writing code that enables "copying" of said work. That is protected under many countries general treaties between nations. The main thing that has to be done is that we need to make sure that we impress on the fact that this is for playback only.
-- SJS smooge at smoogespace dot com
I say that this guy deserves more support than mitnick did. At least this guy did something 100% positive for everyone except the movie industry. It is about time too that we start making human rights issues about these so-called "civilized" western governments that send their native gestapo equivelents to break into people's houses without even most likely a search warrant. I am sure Hitler and all the socialist thugs from the former USSR and Red China would be very proud of the Norwegian government for doing something this wrong.
It looks like it's getting big up here.. Jon is on the first page in "Verdens Gang" and "Dagbladet", both big newspaper here in Norway. Too bad I did'n see him at school today, had to tell him how much support he get here (Slashdot).
We must give him all the support we can..
Anders Klepaker
You can copy the encrpted media without DeCSS; you'll just have to play it back on hardware that supports the encryption.
DeCSS makes it possible to play it back on your computer without purchasing software or hardware decoders. As far as I know, there are no hardware DVD players without encryption (decoders) that will playback the unencrypted media. So what's the big deal? Certainly no company large enough to manufacture such a machine will do so - they'd piss off the big boys and be drummed out of business.
So we've got essentially the same situation we have with MP3s. MP3s have put no dent in the sales of CDs, CD players, or home media systems. Nobody wants to crowd around a PC monitor to watch a movie, and it's still cheaper to buy one of their damn DVD decoders than it is to set up a PC capable of playing a DVD with any degree of quality.
What's the problem? Got me. DVD piracy probably won't change all that much. Nobody will make DVD playback hardware without the encryption.
--
I'm wondering whether the DVD-CA isn't holding its own members behind the light on this point as well as us. Most Movie exececutives are not likely to be technical, and believed the DVD consortsium's lie that CCS would help against copying (NOTHING helps against bit by bit copying).
Now DeCSS comes along, which doesn't change the situation on making pirate copies of DVDs, but does make it possible for anybody to build a player without the need for the DVD-CA. Should DeCSS become excepted, the DVD-CA would be out of a job. This is also the reason why they are attacking it legally. They know that whatever the do to poor Jon is not going to keep DeCSS out of the hands of pirates, but it will keep the css-auth code and keys underground, so anybody wanting to make a legal player will have to continue going to the DVD-CA.
The movie companies, stupid and scared shitless of piracy as they are, are falling for that this is actually in their interest, when it helps them very little. In many ways they are the most decieved of all...
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
1) Coders should look at the DeCSS code and either enhance or increase its ability to play DVD's under Linux. If there are areas that would make copying the DVD's easier that arent needed in playing they should be removed.
2) A Linux DVD player needs to be coded into a "product". We need to show why this was needed.. a lot of people keep on saying it is for this.. well dont do anything but that.
3) Then use the analogy that owning a printing press means you could copy books.. however do we have to be all licensed on what we can print to make sure we arent copying books? Owning a tape recorder means you can copy tapes.. and there are a LOT of dual tape decks out there... does that mean I am a pirate?
4) Mirror the code and start a Free DVDcoders Legal Defense group. If this is the EFF then so be it.. if it needs to be another group so be it.
I think the net community has some experience now on what will work and what wont (several of the Free Kevin Mitnick antics didnt work.. the T-Shirts did get attention though).
-- SJS smooge at smoogespace dot com
I just have to say that we support you Jon... We just love that you do this... You rule man... And Vestfold is a very nice plase
Thats right. Jon did never crack the coder or doing anything "Ilegal". The only thing he did, was to make the GUI for DeCSS. What is more stupid is that his father also got in trouble, he owns the webhotel Jon used to get DeCSS public. What if Jon used Tripod or Telenor(Here in norway) or another big thing, would they lawyer to the same against them as to Jon's father ? I don't think so...
Anders Klepaker
Great think about what you have just said. Now go back in time a few years and think of the IBM PC, specifically it's BIOS.
"it sucks that DVD and CSS are not open standards" replace that with "it sucks that the BIOS is not an open standard".
Hence the BIOS was reversed engineered and clones could be made.
This is the same thing.
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
Looking over the MPAA website I found the following:
The MPAA contact / reward program for turning in pirates
To make a long story short the 800 number is: 1-800-662-6797 why don't some enterprising Slashdotters call up the MPAA on their dime and let them know what you think of this whole "piracy" fiasco.
The prosecutor, Okokrim in Norway has web http://www.okokrim.no, with mailaddys and phonenumbers on their front page. .../Bosse
>the price was as high as a normal dvd in the States.
I believe the point is that people could sell them for $3 and still make a profit.
Think about it this way, suppose I had all of the equipment in a major US city and sold it to you for $6. This is very realistic.
>yet the only CDs I see copied are either compilations, to save space, or material that is not available comercially
Depends on what capacity you see these CDs. Visit any major Chinatown and I am sure that you can find copied CDs of commerical property. I'm 100% sure of this.
>Perhaps there is some easy cheap way to copy CDs or DVDs and sell them on the street corner.
People GIVE CDs of entire music discs or software games away.
Perhaps it depends on where/who you hang around with.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Ok I don't know how many people will read this but...
If it is decided that DECSS is illegal due to being illegally reversed engineered, well will it not effect the whole of the shrink wrap software industry.
How does company A get there software to write the file format of company B. Well by reverse engineering it of course. This is one example, but there must be hundreds of precidents of reverse engineering of software and hardware with the standard shrink wrap licence.
So does this mean for example Microsoft can be sued by the makers of Word Perfect as to use the software they must have clicked on the licence agreement first.
It makes you wonder, doesn't it, replce the words DECSS and the two parties names by any large company and any peice of software and you can see the simularity.
Maybe the software industry will realise this and rally behind us.
Ice Tiger
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
Moderate the above author's solution up. It's well thought, and it would work.
Here is another mirror of this stuff, along with a rant I jsut had to get out of me.
I just heard an interview with him at petre (a Norwegian radiostation broadcasting with shoutcast). He is actually considering a countersuit due to false accusations. They clam that the cryptation is not a copy protection, but a "play" protection. Arguing that the data can be copied eave though it is cryptated, but other players, than the ones accepted by them, cannot play it.
What the...? I think I saw a penguin...
here you go.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
I just heard an interview with him at petre (a Norwegian radiostation broadcasting with shoutcast). He is actually considering a countersuit due to false accusations. He clam that the cryptation is not a copy protection, but a "play" protection. Arguing that the data can be copied eave though it is cryptated, but other players, than the ones accepted by them, cannot play it.
What the...? I think I saw a penguin...
Hello... Norway is NOT a member of the EU... Net yet...
A few clicks and I was done. A small thing to do, but something I could do immediately.
Jon, then 15 years old, was contacted by the lawyer-firm Simonsen Musæus, who told him that Internett-links to
DeCSS had to be removed. Simultaneously, the MPA mobilized in the american court system. Their demands of
removal of links was first denied. But last week their demands were met in both California and New York.
Wasn't it that although posting the decrypto stuff on webpage was not to be, linking was not prohibited?
Don't give in!
Well, look at it this way.. how much of this thread has been "logical" and calm discussion? Most of you want to hack and mailbomb people just doing what they are paid for.
I don't think we need radio and newspapers and court documents to slander /. posters. /. posters are doing it to themselves.
"Got, Root, What is difference?" -- Pitr of User Friendly
Sales taxes hover around 20%, income taxes are over 50%, and forget about anything like a Bill of Rights or due process. It's no wonder Europe is still in an economic recession.
/. involving Europe it always, without fail, ends up with someone claiming that this would never happen in the US blah blah blah aren't we brilliant.
For God's sake, Jgotts, grow up. Whenever there is a story on
Its not just the US. Europeans often do it back.
Why? What's the point? We're not discussing the DeCSS situation by doing this. Its pointless and, frankly, flamebait - which is how someone should have moderated Jgotts' post.
I just get annoyed every time I see this happen. There are far more important (and more interesting) things to discuss than long past it's sell-by date nationalism.
(For the record, I'm a British Citizen now living in Sweden)
I have no clue where to find these things out, but as you said.. so long as they own public corperations in Western countries we should be able to find out.
I was thinking of just using 'controlling interest' as a criteria.. so that if someone had a controlling intrest in company A, but A has a controlling interest in B, we just list A and B in that guy's portfolio. I'll bet these people don't like the spotlight very much, and it would be nice to have them scrutinised as much as our politians. Then, personal relationships will be reported by the media.. which is also helpful.
Do you really think this member of MoRE, an admitted cracker, PAID for a CPP copy of W2K?
So it's guilty until proven innocent now, is it? Well, I don't know how it works where you're from, but here in the USA, we like to have a little evidence of wrongdoing before accusing someone of it.
His other machines are linux and freebsd - no $ here.
Gee, I run Linux and Windows too, so I must be a cracker running tons of illegal pirated software, eh?
BTW, what makes you say he didn't spend money for his copies of Linux and FreeBSD? Maybe he paid hard cash for Red Hat Linux Professional and a full distribution of FreeBSD?
There were no localized versions for his country...
And he obviously can't use an English version, right?
I think it's MORE than safe to say it's a pirated copy.
All I can say is, thank goodness our legal system isn't based on your methods of accusation without even the faintest shred of evidence.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Doesn't it have to be semiautomatic in order to qualify as an assault rifle in California?
TOYWAR!!
Finding God in a Dog
The thing about e-mailing the Norwegian priminister and suing the state of Norway is just pure bullshit. It whon't do any good. Since here in Norway ( I do live here ) the priminister cannot do anything about what a court order, (he can but no one has ever done that). The movie industrie know they are going to lose. and quite simple they are like the BSA (www.bsa.org) they scream and scream but there is no blood. :) I give my support to this genius wich is the same age as mine, hope that everyone will think about how important this case is. Not only for the DVD matter but for more cases/scenarios to come. Most kindly regards Christian M. "Becareful while reading healthy books, you might die of misprint!" Mark Twain
The worst scenario I can see is:
* Jon gets tried
* Jon gets aquitted because reverse engineering is legal.
* US trials note that the code was reverse engineered legally in Norway, therefor the "trade secret" is not a secret anymore.
The World Trade Organization strikes the Norwegian laws allowing reverse engineering preventing any future jeapordizing of trade secrets in this fashion. If you haven't been following the WTO, now might be the time to read up on them...
http://zmag.org/CrisesCurEvt s/Globalism/GlobalEcon.htm
http://www.indymedia.org/
-- Adam
Remember all those great RSA-in-perl decryption gimmics that were (and may still be) floating around? Someone needs to condense DeCSS to few enough lines to print on trinkets. I want my dirty underwear to violate the MPAA's intellectual property "rights", dammit!
"Whatever happened to fair use?"
-- Duff-Man
Visit the Signal 11 Shrine to see Signal 11 naked and petrified.
Perhaps I should have said wrapped illegal in quotes to more blatantly state my sarcasm.
Bryan Klingner, MCSE, MCP+I
it's here:
DeCSS Source Code
Estranged
Forgive me if this is a bit off topic, but I've been waiting to answer this! :-)
Arkady is a character from the first book of the Mars Trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson.
He was something of a free-spirited, computer-geek, raconteur, anarchist who would have been right at home in an open-source computing environment. I've always speculated about whether or not he would have been running linux, or whether he simply would have written his own OS from the ground up.
After Arkady is gone his like-minded followers started a movement to keep his ideas alive and they became known as "Bogdanovists." Named after him of course, Arkady Nikelyovich Bogdanov.
The trilogy is definitely one of the best sci-fi reads I have ever had, if not the best. I definitely recommend it.
Ignore Alien Orders
http://linuxguiden.linpro.no/protesteng .php
I was reading the MPAA Anti-piracy subsite and found some interesting numbers.
They say that they reward those that can disclose the location of a video copying lab with more than 30 VCRs. One might imagine that this would be, on average, the number of VCRs they would find and conviscate were they to raid the lab.
They then go on to say that they have "assisted law enforcement in more than 3,000 raids" and recovered 6,163 VCRs in these raids.
I get an average of 2 VCRs seized per raid. That just seems a little low. They say their largest bust was 817 VCRs. The must have an extraordinary failure rate if the average is only 2, though I imagine that some of those raids were not on labs, but on distributors of illegal video cassette copies.
I also find it interesting that they estimate 10 percent of all video retail outlets deal in illegal copies. Why aren't they cracking down on them more?
They say nothing about making copies of videos being illegal. They say only that it is illegal to distribute these copies. Supposedly, I can make a single copy of a MPAA movie, right? Can I make two? 500? What's the difference if I'm not going to distribute them?
Oh well, just rambling off topic. I spelt incompetant wrong, didn't I? Ah well.
Isn't that reference back to front? The ratio of natives to British in India was collosal, so it is the British empire that needs to be seen as a small force attempting to make an incursion into an immovably immense continent. Not surprisingly, even such a great "success" turned out to be ephemeral.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
If you work for the government please state your name and adress!This case needs support from norwegian officials. I don't like the norwegian police if they support international bandits like the film- and record industry.
Didn't extradition come up in the Analyser case (i.e., that of that Israeli cracker from a few years ago)? If so, it could be precedent.
http://linuxguiden.linpro.no/protesteng.php
What the...? I think I saw a penguin...
En takk til deg Jon! Dette er ungdom som Norge trenger! Som gammel punker og husokkupant fra Gammlebyn, faktisk før Blitz, kan jeg si at du ivaretar god tradisjon med opprør mot de etablerte institusjoner som gjerne vil styre hverdagen vår. STÅ PÅ JON! Med Hilsen og moralsk støtte fra Tstein.
Seriously, I am *so* tired of all of the kids here. Be a bit serious people. Myself, I am Norwegian, and I've seen all the junk the press has written here - made me be uncertain about what I thought first. But I know now.
How many dozens of oekokrim-email addys isn't it up here? It won't help! It's the film-industry that went against him and the other two who made this programme. The technology wasn't even invented by these 3 guys, Jon even challenge the media now by saying he can show them how to copy the film to the disc without using the ** program. It's not about copyright or breaking the laws, just about playing the film from where you want to, really.
For Norwegian readers, the Norwegian paper Dagbladet actually wrote a more "true" article about the case than most of the other Norwegian papers.. you can find it at http://www.dagbladet.no/nyhe ter/2000/01/26/190256.html . For those of you who want to sign the petition against the treatment of him, go to http://www.nytt.no/dvd . He (Jon Johansen) is also available for asking a question or two on the Norwegian paper VG's page, Thursday 27.01 at 5 pm Norwegian time (gmt +1): http://interaktiv.vg.no/CGI/in tervju/intervju/jonjoh . Send in a question if you feel like it. I feel mostly everything is said. And wish for the best.
What I also is a bit proud of, is that the government of Norway is actually reacting to this case in the Parliament. Erik Solheim from the Norwegian party SV asked in the questioning-hour about the rules we have for the Internet and our policy. The Minister of Culture said she couldn't answer to this case because it is still under investigation. At least, the government knows about it by now.
Laerk [you can find me at EFnet, #ultimat]
[:You don't *have* to be an asshole all your life. Take the day off.]
How many dozens of oekokrim-email addys isn't it up here? It won't help! It's the film-industry that went against him and the other two who made this programme. The technology wasn't even invented by these 3 guys, Jon even challenge the media now by saying he can show them how to copy the film to the disc without using the ** program. It's not about copyright or breaking the laws, just about playing the film from where you want to, really.
For Norwegian readers, the Norwegian paper Dagbladet actually wrote a more "true" article about the case than most of the other Norwegian papers.. you can find it at http://www.dagbladet.no/nyhe ter/2000/01/26/190256.html . For those of you who want to sign the petition against the treatment of him, go to http://www.nytt.no/dvd . He (Jon Johansen) is also available for asking a question or two on the Norwegian paper VG's page, Thursday 27.01 at 5 pm Norwegian time (gmt +1): http://interaktiv.vg.no/CGI/in tervju/intervju/jonjoh . Send in a question if you feel like it. I feel mostly everything is said. And wish for the best.
What I also is a bit proud of, is that the government of Norway is actually reacting to this case in the Parliament. Erik Solheim from the Norwegian party SV asked in the questioning-hour about the rules we have for the Internet and our policy. The Minister of Culture said she couldn't answer to this case because it is still under investigation. At least, the government knows about it by now.
Laerk [you can find me at EFnet, #ultimat]
[:You don't *have* to be an asshole all your life. Take the day off.]
You're calling the filma nd record industries bandits because they protect the intellectual property rights of individuals and companies? What an idiot you are, the bandits are those that do nothing but try to break code written by people much smarter than them. Get a clue, you and the rest of your "vigilante?" renegades. You're all so cool!
Gee, thanks, nothing like taking a swipe a people who happen to live near, or look like, or maybe even share race/religion/color/gender with the person you're pissed at.
.*law.* .* Index.HTM
This is what gives vigilante justice a bad name, is trigger-happy vigilantes. Go rent video of The Oxbow Incident before you reply. FYI, the majority of corporations incorporated in the USA (including most multi-nat zaibatsus) are incorporated in Delaware. That's because we have a functional chancery court here, unlike the corrupt and politically beholden chanceries of most US states. Being located in or incorporated in Delaware does not mean you are good or evil, it merely means you did something intelligent once.
Why don't you pick on oxygen-breathers; after all, the people who you are mad at all breathe oxygen, and you wouldn't want anyone to escape your "justice".
--Charlie
...a cowardly weasel wrote:
[snip]
> # anything with law in its name, except law schools, LAWrence
> # keep deLAWare, that's where DVD CCA is incorporated
> # Exception for anything in Poland because lots of towns contain law
> RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST} !lawrence
> RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST} !\.edu$
> RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST} !\.pl$
> RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST}
> RewriteRule
[snip]
Great news!!! Jon don't have to pay for a lawyer! An US company called Electronic Frontier Foundation is paying for a a top lawyer named Cato Schiøtz,witch is a very famous lawyer here in Norway, and Jon and his father dont have to pay anything! Maxus