Slashdot Mirror
Many Hackers Too Fat For The FBI
CaveDwler writes: "Want to work for the FBI in computer security? Better put down your cheesey poofs and pick up your M16. According to this article over on Wired, you have to pass physical requirements in order to work with FBI in computer security."
Many never have to run from the FBI.
ho i actually got FP O_o greetz to all the trolls I owned now back to my normal non AC postingz w00t
trollpoll:
fps, goatses, or other trollin?
oi now I gotta wait another minute..
s10w, my damn CABLE that 0wned j00 is goin too fast to p0st on slashd0t
Phat, surely...
for CowboyNeal.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
Hackers? Too Fat? Say it's aint so!
"Lord, grant that I may always be right, for Thou knowest that I am hard to turn" -- A Scots-Irish prayer
It's the polygraph and the fact you're disqualified for ...ummm... "experimenting" with excessive chemical substances in the past that get's me (or should I say wouldn't get me... a job with the FBI)
--- Nothing To See Here ---
These physical, and legal reqirements are for all "Agents", but as the artical says, if you're not a agent, you're at the bottom of the food chain. Take up basketball and stop drinking, it will do you good anyway.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
But can we still have powdered donut pancake surprise?
Far more inane is the requirement on marijuana smoking. Now, I've never touched the stuff, but I *know* people like me are a tiny minority of the talent pool out there. Yet another case of a rather pathetic "zero-tolerance" style "get-tough" policy coming back to bite its originators in the butt.
I'm sure they would want to stay where their interest is anyway, which is in security, not physically apprehending people.
Anyway, that's what outside contractor jobs are for. Plus the money is sweet.
Hands in my pocket
Hopefully they'll get rejected before they discover Jodie Foster doesn't really work for the FBI
Where are all these fat pasty geeks I keep hearing about? Most I see are scrawny as hell. Yeah okay, so they're pasty, but they could carry a M16(crap, just try to KEEP a geek away from a M16 for Christ's sake).
I'd think the "college degree" required bit would be a bigger limiting factor.
"They will not consider you unless you can carry your M16 through the physical fitness course without killing yourself in the process,"
I think its fair, if you die in the test, they don't hire you.
You can't take the sky from me...
...it's the bind-bogglingly stupid hiring practices in general. And the FBI know it; heck, even this article spends only a little time discussing the physical bit. Most of the article points out other ways in which the FBI shoots themselves in the foot:
At some point it will occur to the FBI that people can specialize in a topic before joining.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
How is playing Counter-Strike going to help me lose weight?
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
I thought this was particularly ridiculous--you need uncorrected vision of 20/200 to pass. I'm 20/800 but can shoot a pretty tight group.
Where are they going to find computer geeks with good vision??
-----------------------
To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.
"In order to be a good computer security person, you must think like a black-hat hacker and be able to understand the tools and methods of the dark side," Sweeny said.
Oh great. So not only do you have to be able to run the obstacle course but you gotta be able to choke people from a distance and fight little green hyper midgets.
GMD
watch this
One question on the application asked if you'd smoked pot more than 15 times
15 times? A day?
IANAL, but imagine a beowulf cluster of in Soviet Russia all your belong are base to us welcoming the new SCO overlords.
Why is this considered newsworthy? All branches of the military require a given level of physique, same with virtually all law enforcement departments, not to mention fireman, rangers, and private security.
What else did you expect? Next there will be a story on how stupid people can't join the FBI.....
Did someone think that when they were applying
for the FBI, that they were doing anything besides
applying for a job as a police officer? And they're *surprised* when met with physical requirements?
Its always been my dream, to one day pull a gun and badge on someone and yell "Federal Agent, DONT MOVE!" or something cool like that. Unfortunately here in the UK theres nothing with any really catchy names, "Flying Squad" sounds lame, "MI5" sounds lame, the only cool thing i can think of is "Secret Service" but you would probably have to wisper it because its secret.. :( Even the police dont have cool 4-letter things like NYPD or LAPD. "Swansea Police, FREEZE!"
:)
I think its important for all geeks that want to join the FBI to get fit, and cherish their ability to pull guns and shout catchy phrases even if they have desk jobs. Mulder had to pass the physical, Scully had to pass the... mmmmmmm.. she definatly passed it
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
So, the feds bought thos tiny keybords so fat-fucking-burger people can't put their fat fingers at one key at the time...?
"If you keep an open mind people will throw a lot of garbage in it."
Check out their policies http://www.fbi.gov/employment/policies.htm
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
interesting balance working here.
some of the programmers i know are brilliant at what they do because they have very little interest in social activities, physical activities, or leaving their monitors at all. almost all of there time is spent learning and soaking up new data. -generally- i find them pretty un energetic and hard to work with in groups sometimes.
but, if they were doing physical activities, getting out more, they may be better to work with, easier to pool knowledge, and have more energy and focus.
but would they be as tech smart and on top of things? at what point is the 'geek specialization' hurting the group interaction and thus the goals of forming a unit that works well to serve the fbi and its goal?
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Don't be content to be a fat fuck, and don't let yourself off with "Gee, I'm just too busy to exercise" or "Exercise is for stupid jocks" excuse. There are better ways to flirt with death than to sit on your ass 18 hours a day chugging Dew and eating Ho Hos.
Here's my 20 minute-a-day, 4 times a week solution: Get out and run. Two and a quarter miles or so in about 20 minutes will put you in reasonably good shape. It doesn't hurt to squeeze in some work with free weights, either, but you can work up to that. In any event, start off slow and work up to your goal over a couple of months, and *don't* let yourself plateau too early.
Oh, and good shoes are really important. I highly recommend New Balance.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
.. it was the background check that scared me. What if I was a stupid teen and I did knock over a few mailboxes with a baseball bat [which I didn't..], would they use that against me?
So worse case is I don't get the job and then I get brought up on charges of some stupid thing I did in my youth.
"The Background will routinely encompass your entire adult life (age 18) and earlier years as necessary to fully resolve issues that arise. Information developed of a derogatory nature will be forwarded to FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C., for adjudication."
How many people can answer these questions with a response of No?
1. Have you used marijuana at all within the last three years?
2. Have you used marijuana more than a total of 15 times in your life?
3. Have you used any other illegal drug (including anabolic steroids after February 27, 1991) at all in the past 10 years?
4. Have you used any other illegal drug (including anabolic steroids after February 27, 1991) more than a total of five times in your life?
5. Have you ever sold any illegal drug for profit?
6. Have you ever used an illegal drug (no matter how many times or how long ago)while in a law enforcement or prosecutorial position, or in a position which carries with it a high level of responsibility or public trust?
Live web cams
I imagine an M16 must be some kind of special, American training equipment to help you get in shape.
Unless you mean the gun, but I don't think that you can take what the interview panel says seriously when you're pointing an automatic weapon at them. Even if they seem very sincere and polite.
Far more inane is the requirement on marijuana smoking.
Well, it's inane to you because (I'm guessing) you feel that marijuana should be legalized. However, we are supposedly at war against drugs so it's actually a consistant stance for the FBI to take. I'd bet that the FBI would reject your application if their background check revealed that you sent a check off to Osama, too. From the FBI's standpoint, using marijuana (even a one-time experimentation) is like giving money to an enemy we're at war against.
Look, personally I believe in legalizing marijuana. But you can't fault the FBI for this requirement. It would be pretty rediculous if the federal government had an official "no drugs" stance against drugs and then the FBI decided they were going to convienently ignore drug use in reviewing applications.
GMD
watch this
They'd probably get a ton more applicants if they relaxed that requirement.. But they are stuck in the mode of thought "physically chase down suspects" rather than "trace suspect to physical location then send in the Yes^H^H^HG-Men" for all Agents, rather than foot soliders.
Another reason to have some sort of civil service for specialized roles.
Then again, I don't know how I'd feel sentencing someone to life in prison for defacing Microsofts freakin website either.
D'ya think Am Sexy. D'ya have any baby's around. Which way to the Gent's I've got to leave some evidence...
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
"In order to be a good computer security person, you must think like a black-hat hacker and be able to understand the tools and methods of the dark side," Sweeny said. "Right there, you are in a very gray area, in the feds' opinion."
That's the MAIN problem, hacker are believed to be criminal. Discrimination is a handy tool for people wanting laws passed, ala DMCA.
uncorrected vision not worse than 20/200 (Snellen) and corrected 20/20 in one eye and not worse than 20/40 in the other eye. All candidates must pass a color vision test.
Considering many males are colorblind and many have poor vision, this is another problem. The FBI is shooting themselves in the foot by having overly demanding entrance requirements.
The FBI should hire experts in the field they are going to work in. Have officers with guns do the dirty work and scientists do the research. This is the way law enforcement should work.
Then salaries could also be distributed to be competitive to get the correct people for the job.
-Sean
With the five year 'wait', the security expertise would be dangerously out of date by the time the agent gets to do his real job...
heh, im fat.. i dont eat hohos and drink soda, i drink lots of water and eat salads and not a lot, but i just dont do any exercise so im fat.
but i cant run as you suggest, especially 2 miles, i can barely walk 1 mile (if i can at all).. if i ran id pass out after about 100 feet. so whats your suggestion?
(p.s. if i ran 2 miles, im 100% SURE id DIE, literally.)
I must admit after being into martial arts for quite some time Ive found many hackers/computer geeks who also do it. Although I do know a couple who probably shouldnt have been. One had extreme trouble immitating and another suffered from black-outs. I'd say at any one time my club compromises around 1/4 computer geeks.
Come on admit you all need it to stop from being beaten up!
If you read the think at the fbijob site linked in the article, it will show all the requirements. It serisouly looks like a sucky job, you must have great health, great hearing, great vision, be less than 37 yrs old, and you will get a starting pay of ~45,000. Also, people need to have knowledge in computer science, hard science (phyiscs, chemistry...) foreign language, and other stuff. The big problem (as mentioned in the article) is that the fbi excepts the new recruits to be like normal fbi agents and run around and go after the bad guys in the real world. Have they never heard of specialization? The only way i can explain it is that the fbi are getting deluged by applicants and have ultra high requirements for that reason.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Has the FBI even considered using more nonlethal methods to capture criminals? I mean, haven't they learned their lesson after Waco and *shudder* Ruby Ridge (where a sniper shot an unarmed woman dead, while holding a baby in her arms)?
As for me, I'm:
Good at stopping hackers (and knowing their techniques for breaking into systems)
Drug free - and will remain so, from the womb to the tomb
Not overweight
No criminal history
But oops! I'm not a college graduate. And I abhor going after someone with a machine gun when tear gas, flash bang (knockout/stun) grenades and other nonlethal options, are equally as effective, and now readily available.
Oh well.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
"Worst application ever."
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
at least you get the GUNS to play with :)
Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
They're not just ruling out the fat ones. They're rejecting all the ones that don't have a buff bod and those who wear glasses. Remember, a gentlemen agent not only has to be smart but has to be good looking enough to seduce the sexy Russian and Chinese evil hacker agents that he will undoubtably encounter in exotic locales. Don't you watch the movies, man? Everyone knows this shit!
GMD
watch this
At least to me. The FBI is in the business of finding and arresting the "bad guy". So it makes sense that all of their agents be in top physical condition and that folks work the street for awhile before specializing. That way the agents know how to put together a case from the ground up, and not have it kicked on a technicality.
That being said, I would think that they would try and increase their cybercrime fighting abilities by increasing the number of civvies they hire, and giving them more clout. Course with the egos involved that last one might be a bit of a toughie...
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
but don't forget that they want people who can do more then one thing. It's stupid to hire people that can do one and only one thing well in law enforcement. These are the people who need to be able to do a multitude of things to 'survive' at times.
They are just saying that you should be able to do many, things and may be required to be a 'normal' agent from time to time. If they actually get what they want is another matter altogether.
Maybe the computer job pays really really well compared to a normal agent?
compare that with the newer IBM (a series) thinkpads which weigh in at around 7 lbs bare. The gun doesn't seem so bad after all.
Start walking 0.75 miles then. You can use a pedometer (or whatever it's called). The key to exercising is to gradually build up. Each day walk 0.1 miles farther than the previous day, and before you know it, you will be walking 5 miles. Then you can start to add a slow jog for say half a mile, and then over weeks build up.
The main problem with exercise is attitude. It's all about attitude; if you are negative you won't get anywhere. Just think, if you eat correctly and slowly add exercise, you can be a computer geek AND in shape! Think of the women...
MI5 is, in effect, a trimmed down version of the FBI - concerned primarily with threats to national security and major crimes. The "Secret Service" doesn't exist as such, officially it's MI6 or SIS (Secret Intelligence Service) although now the majority of the work of MI5 and 6 is encompassed by GCHQ.
And now I'll have to kill you...
Yeah, and after 10 years of running, my ankles and knees seize up. 250 pounds falling one foot several thousand times is a lot of stress on your joints. Exercise is too hard on your body. I'd rather be careful with my body, and not do anything too stressful, like walking briskly, or more than necessary. If you have to walk more than 1 mile to do anything, there is probably a way to do it with the computer instead. That's what we invented them for, to save us from having to do dull physical tasks, like walking, or running. ;)
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Thank god for McDonalds for giving us new healthier fries. Now we'll have no problem getting into shape for the FBI!
Two steps:
1. Recognize that your excuses are all self-defeating bullshit.
2. Work up to your goal.
Seriously, the only things keeping 99% of us from being healthy are the convenient little excuses we make for ourselves (some people have medical problem, but few are so serious as to preclude an active lifestyle).
Look around and tell me how many really fat 40 year olds you see. Now, how many 50 year olds? 60? Am I getting through here?
Being active gives you a lot of things: it makes you more physically attractive to most people, you'll have more energy, you'll fit into a single airline seat, you'll be stronger and generally more able to keep up with life, but the biggie is still this: If you're fat, you're going to die before you have to.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
It's really simple. Either a few prodigy agents get through and carry the entire beurau, or they will be duped time and time again by kiddies with half the skill set of a mitnick (and most of what he did was social engineering!)
If the gov't is too stupid to keep up or farm out, then they deserve to be left behind.
and $45k?! Whatever!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
HAHAHA you lard asses, better start masturbating a littler faster, you'll never join the Elite Guard(tm).
... or having sex?
There is, however, an M4A1, which is pretty much the same thing. It's a little smaller, and a little lighter, and it's what the army uses now anyway.
PUBLIC SPLIT ON WHETHER BUSH IS A DIVIDER -CNN scrolling banner, 10/15/2004
Thats pretty damn poor vision. The definition of legally blind is being 20/200 with corrective lenses. I can understand the reasoning behind it: lose your glasses and transform yourself into a blind agent. Not cool. If your vision is correctable with lenses then you're good to go. Colorblindness on the otherhand, probably excludes a significant number from participation. I can think of a scenario though where that might be an issue (however unlikely and theatrical it might be): cut the red wire instead of the green wire and transform yourself into a dead agent.
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
Don't be content to be a fat fuck, and don't let yourself off with "Gee, I'm just too busy to exercise" or "Exercise is for stupid jocks" excuse. There are better ways to flirt with death than to sit on your ass 18 hours a day chugging Dew and eating Ho Hos.
;)
It sounds like you suffer from the false belief that obesity is simply a matter of laziness. Trust me, there are plenty of lazy people who are not obese.
The rise of obesity in American society has many factors, and I think that laziness is a very small one. A much more important factor would be the insane number of carbohydrates that we consume now as opposed to one hundred years ago. Do you know how many millions of gallons of soft drinks (50 grams of carbs per can) people go through in a year? To put it in the proper perspective, consider that humans used to drink exactly zero gallons of soft drinks in a year. And add to that the fact that soft drink manufacturers continue to raise the portion size of their products. Notice that snack makers (carb factories) and restaurants (carb factories) are doing the same thing. It's merely pandering to the "get more for your money" desire which is almost inextricable from the American psyche.
Also, 99% of diets will fail (read: make the dieter gain more weight, not less) if the dieter is already over 100 pounds overweight. Telling these people, "Get off your ass you fat fuck!" does not help. In fact, I think it exacerbates the problem that you deplore.
New balance sucks. Ecco rules the universe! Then again, I'm biased: I value my knees too much to be a runner.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Maybe they want people who already know what the limits of what they can and cannot do are, and how law enforcement generally operates.
.com, either.
That way, the new guy doesn't bollux up an investigation by committing some mistake which a defense attorney can present as a violation of his client's rights and grounds for dismissal. They'd also likely have a better grounding in who and what you're dealing with, on the other side -- and it won't just be against stereotypical "black hats" getting their rocks off by DOSing some high-profile
At least, that's one possible explanation. Another is just that they cut-and-pasted requirements from their other divisions without being overly concerned about it. I'm not a Fed, so I wouldn't know.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
If you run regularly and are 250 lbs, you're probably a glutton. That's you're perogative. If you want to go that route, I recommend riding a bike. Or, if that's not what you want, join a health club and use an eliptical machine or an exercise bike (as a side benefit, most health clubs come with very good looking members of your preferred sex in the vicinity).
Why would any self respecting geek want to work for the FBI? They have their head's stuck up their asses.
The NSA is THE place to be.
And I thought that way before SE Linux was released by the NSA.
Fat "hackers" is an oxymoron. Fat computer people are always the "no-nothing-know-it-alls" too eager to give their opinion on things they dont know enough about. Better to keep your mouth shut and let people thing you are an idiot then to open it and proove them right. Everybody knows the best "hackers" are the elusive long-haired quiet people in the back of the class that rarely talk.
I thought that the FBI wanted the "...biggest and the best hackers..."
I guess that should be "brightest and the best"... Oops...
Ron Gage - Westland, MI
An fbi agent is an fbi agent. It's easier to have a well trained, responsible, fit and ethical agent doing the hacking work. Hacking itself is illegal, so I don't understand why the FBI would even consider hiring criminals to work for them. Working for a group like the FBI requires a combination of skills, not just brainpower.
It has been shown anyway that hackers who 'turn good' can't be trusted. Just look at fyodor, the owner of http://www.insecure.org, who hacked into a slashdot troll's computer to 'get back at him'.
Think about it. A security expert is hired to analyze security and intelligence. Who the fuck cares whether they can shoot a gun or not. I know people who have studied their ABC's and can outhack any current FBI 'agents', but sweat like Steve Ballmer at the linux convention.
Question is, are you looking for supermodels or people who will keep the national security interests safe?
If I was in charge, I'd even hire obese, gay midgets, as long as they helped the agency to get up-to date with computer security.
Stupid beaurocracy tactics just like the one mentined in the above article are to blame for 9/11 attacks. I bet those FBI agents were in gym pumping iron when planes struck the world trade center.
Your tax dollars at work.
Wow this sounds like the exact same politically correct bullshit that resulted in the catastrophic intelligence failure leading up to September 11th. Such as, we can't payoff some one that was a member of a terrorist group for information or if he defects.
If someone is physically fit, they presumably don't spend 17 hours a day on a computer, thus they aren't going to be the most skilled of the selection. Simple logic. Groups don't think logically, compromises don't result in logical decisions, which is exactly why stupid stuff like this happens.
sell your car. use the bus from now on. once you're more fit (walking to/from bus stop, carrying groceries), get a bike and bike everywhere. once you can bike everywhere, run everywhere. once you can run everywhere, get a car again. once you're weak again, sell the car and start over.
When I was being interviewed by the feds, I asked them about some of the questions on the many-page form. Questions of the format, "Have you ever mutilated small children while dropping acid, selling crystal meth, and joining a right-wing militia/religious cult all at the same time?" etc. I asked, "are you actually expecting a "oh sure, all the time" answer? Have you ever gotten a yes answer? Don't people get freaked out that they're shooting themselves in the foot?"
The representative[*] chuckled and pointed out that the answers you give on the form, and during the interviews, are sealed. They cannot by law turn around and bring you up on charges based on how you answered. (They can deny you the job/clearance/position/whatever because you're a meth-smoking nutcase, but they can't trick you into putting yourself in jail.)
[*]Sweet little old lady on the outside, but damn... there is nothing more intimidating than someone who looks like your grandmother staring you in the eye while asking, "Are you now or have you ever been a member of any organization whose stated goal is the violent overthrow of the United States Government?" and no, she's not smiling.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Hacker's Diet
A legparnasom tele van angolnaval.
All the smartest UNIX geeks are usually fat. That leaves the government with only the dumb ones. Now we know where our security problems are coming from.
well I'd do it.
.45 or with my bare hands, well they'd let me decide, I'm sure ,...oh.uh, wait just a sec, we were talking about a shitty nt4-sp1 (now, stay focussed) socalled-hack-by-terrorists-which-was-in-fact-just -a-bug-exploited-by-some-scriptkiddies-in-the stoneage-or-feature-you're-not-really-sure-but-the -cia-is-shutting-your-mouth -anyhow-so-you-stopped-caring-after-this-thought-r eached-you-which-was-when-you-filled-in-the-realon e(tm)-questionaire (strange how things go sometimes right?)-which-was-recorded-by-echelon-somehow-and- they-approached-you sys-admin-"ish" job here right?
I would sweat my guts out; cough my own blood up during hellish daily 30 mile drills with a 22'' monitor on my back, for 10 months untill I meet the requirements, all for uncle sam!
As long as I can kill people with my
Well, never mind then!
(as a side benefit, most health clubs come with very good looking members of your preferred sex in the vicinity).
Really? I've been searching for health clubs that have a large contingency of transvestite sheep, but to no avail...
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
It's all well and good saying 'Get out and run', but that doesn't solve anything. If people had the self discipline to exercise, they'd exercise. If they don't, then telling them to isn't going to make them.
I am content to be a 'fat fuck', and I don't use excuses. I just don't have the self discipline to force myself to pay loads of money on some shorts and trainers, then put myself through miles of misery and pain and sweat and blisters every week for the sake of losing an ounce of weight, only to put it on again straight away when I have chippy for tea.
Face it, exercise is miserable. It is painful. It is hard, horrible work. And unless you're running miles every week, you're not going to see any benefit from it. I tried going for a run a few months ago. After about half a mile, I just collapsed. My legs were aching and wobbling, my chest was in great pain, my lungs were almost self-destructing trying to bring in precious air. I'm not putting myself through that! I'm not a masochist.
As for dying without 10-20 years. Good. Anything to bring an early end to my miserable existence.
Man, if I weren't so lazy/stoned, I'd submit an 'ask slashdot' on the use of drugs in the computing industry. Anyone wanna do it for me?
I thought about joining the FBI after graduating from college, but the absurdly low pay turned me off. They require two years of work experience before considering a candidate, and then they hire you at a "training wage" of $45K. After you graduate from the FBI academy, your salary ranges from $53-$58K.
:)
I would love to be a Special Agent, but I'm not impressed with salaries that are $10-$20K below market rate. Granted, there are the warm fuzzies that you get from being one of the "good guys", but that doesn't put food on the table.
Now we know why our agents leak so many secrets to the Russians
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I find that I have increased energy and, as an extention, less need for caffine and a generally clearer head (esp. during those hours after lunch when everyone else is half-asleep). IMO, I absorb information much more easily and am better able to "wrap my head" around things.
Fine, fine. Whoop-de-do. Get to the damn point, Man! Are you scoring with lots of naked chicks now or what?
GMD
watch this
"They'll grudgingly let you past if you just do forensics, but they feel you really should chase bad guys with a gun before you chase bad guys with a computer."
No reasoning problems here...
"We don't trust you with a computer, so here's your gun!"
However, mentioning that the duty of the cybercop is to chase bad guys with computer does put the fitness requirements into perspective... Man, computers are a !$%&@ to carry, especially while running, and I'm sure you've really gotta be built to throw that thing hard enough to take out the perp!
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
You might as well ask for politicians who have never lied. (That's a bunch I'd like to see take the lie detector test upon swearing to uphold the constitution)
Such politicians would no doubt pass with flying colors - because they're pathological liars.
The "lie detector" is not actually a lie detector. It is a "polygraph", graphing several physiological indicators of stress, so that a trained operator MAY be able to interpret them to determine when the subject is lying. And it operates on the principle that the subject will be under more stress when lying than when telling the truth - either from guilt or fear of being caught.
But a pathological liar won't be under stress. Because he doesn't CARE about whether he tells the truth. MAYBE he'll care about being caught - but maybe not - or maybe he understands polygraphs well enough to recognize that he won't be caught.
The "calibration" questions at the start are both an attempt to convince the subject that he'll be caught if lying (to cause someone who doesn't care to worry when lying) and to guage how much, if any, stress the subject exhibits when lying (so that pathological liars can just be graded "inconclusive").
I recall such a fellow telling me about his run-in with a lie-detector screening of a population at his job site, looking for a thief. Calibration in this test was to let him pick one of a set of three cards, put it back, then be asked "Is it the [such-and-such]?" and to silently think "No, it is not the [such-and-such]." Then the operator would tell him which card it was. The subject in question was enough of a stage-magician to recognize that the game was honest.
So as the three cards were turned, he thought something like:
"No, it is not the jack of hearts."
"NO, IT IS NOT THE QUEEN OF SPADES!"
"Yes, it is the king of diamonds."
The operator said that there was a curious little blip for the king, but that the card was obviously the queen. "GOTCHA!" thought my acquaintence, who had just been shown that he could beat the machine.
Not that it mattered since he wasn't the thief - he says, in a perfectly calm voice. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I presume their forensic people don't have to be crack shots and marathon runners. Why require the same for people doing what are essentially "computer forensics"?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
The chronic daemons out there would know that you might have to smoke pot up to 15 times before you build up enough of a reverse tolerance to get high. So, I'm guessing that the reasoning behind the FBI choosing 15 as their "magic number" is that if you've toked up that many times, then you must have gotten high at least once, but decided it's not your thing. People who could turn down weed after getting high off of it would then be less likely to care about defending its users or advocating its legalization than somebody who smoked the stuff continuously for a period of their life.
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
They don't mention the many other requirements. While it says you need a college degree, you would need to have gotten it without doing drugs, writing subversive papers, or anything else that a college student would do.
sometimes a good thing, sometimes a joke.
Take UPS, which has a standard policy of only hiring their computer techs (and everyone else) from within if at all possible. Aha you say, I will sign on as a part-time loader or something and quickly ascend the ranks... not so fast, you must first become a part-time supervisor before you can even apply for a tech job. So basically, they want you to spend about 6 months in the trenches in their warehouses, get good enough at backbreaking labor to become a mini-manager, and then if you are fortunate you can compete with the other shmoes for a job that no one in the entire company is qualified for, including you because you spent the past 6-8 months up to your armpits in boxes and shattered merchandise.
I know several people in the 220-280 range that are anything but fat. They're just big guys.
They mostly do weight work though because running really does damage them. They do aerobic (stationary for the most part) excerises instead of running.
I thought most geeks are under-weight anyway. That seems to be true of almost anyone to is "really into something", be it computers, electronics, amateur radio, engineering, cars... We just don't have time to eat. I'm "really into" all those things by the way.. I'm 5'10" and 145 lbs. I work out at least 3 times a week. I'm trying to _gain_ weight though, I just don't eat enough because I'm interested in other things.
Being a former member of the armed services that held a Top Secret clerance my entire career (and honorably discharged, before you ask), the "requirement" is there, but, provided that you are HONEST with your interviewers and stay off the stuff during your tenure, you will pass this part just fine.
The real source for trouble is financial dealings. If you've bounced checks, forget about it. Money, not sex, drugs, or ideology, has been the root of most espionage cases over the last 40 years.
At any rate, I was honest with my screeners, didn't touch drugs while I was in, and I had no issues with this area. Now, my ex-wife on the other hand...
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
While the FBI 'hacker' is out running laps i'll
sit back with my cheeseburger and my console,
getting better at what I do, while prettyboi
builds muscletone. I hope he can wiggle that
shivvy little ass through some fiber at full
speed.
Whatever. Sounds like GW logic.
But, so long as CmdrTaco eventually disappears,
I don't care what happens.
Meh. I'm content to die at 39.
> People fail on diets because they are weak and don't follow the diet plans.
Bullshit. The reductionists want to reduce diets to simple matters of protein, carbs and fats, but the explosion in obesity during the past decade proves just how fallious their arguments are.
Diets fail because they fly in the face of what humans (and other mammals) evolved to handle. E.g., as the recent Time magazine article mentioned, if you have a mixture of about the same protein, carbs and fat rats will eat a modest amount of each. If you go heavy on the carbs, e.g., as recommended by most diets (but not the Adkins, Zone and Carbohydrate haters' diets), the rats will stuff themselves. Do that enough, and you have very fat rats.
From a macronutrient perspective, this makes no sense. From an evolutionary perspective, this is obvious - it's behavior designed to take advantage of seasonal windfalls.
But as others have pointed out, this is a disaster in an age when water fountains have been removed from many offices, but free soda is readily available in the refrigerator.
Another good point that the Time article made is that milk isn't just fatty sugar water. The presence of calcium in milk affects the way your body processes sugar and fats (I don't recall the details), so if you switch from soda to low-fat milk you may have more calories and definitely more fat, but you'll lose weight because your body handles it differently than it does carbs alone.
So, if the best nutritionists in the country are admitting that they're having to revisit almost everything they think they knew, who the hell are you to pronounce everyone who's failed to lose weight on a diet a weak-willed loser?
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Fat? I'm all angry muscle.
The FBI can kiss the toned, buff ass that sits atop my sculpted, mighty thews.
At my home-office, when the bull-shit exceeds my tolerance level, I get off the chair, hop on the tread-mill that's facing the window and the tension fades while the sweat pours off.
At the office, I go for a jog on the Jersey City waterfront and glower at the hole that Bin Laden and his mental midgets gouged out of the sky-line.
I have showers ten feet away both a home and at the office. I don't stink.
The FBI are Bozos who'se buffonery is matched by the myopia of the CIA and the ineptitude of the US foreign policy.
Once again they have ALL fucked up and Al Qeda is on the move, metastasizing because they were forced to instead of being somewhere fixed where we could spy on them, intercept their communications and catch them when they tried to get out.
Somewhere like Afghanistan where they and the Taliban would have been a drain on Islamic resources.
They couldn't feed themselves and they were too busy killing each other over the length of their beards (really tough on the women,) to maintain any medical, military, civil-engineering, communication or any damn other infrastructure.
They would have ended up as shining beacon of religious folly. Islam carried through to its ultimate conclusion:
A patheic bunch of socio-psychopaths squatting around in a circle jerk on top of a smoldering pile of rubble.
It would have been relly hard to point to that with pride.
But NO! Bush, et alia, had to make fuckin' Islamic martyrs out of 'em. Now they're like cock-roaches living under the stove and fridge and in the pantry.
We'd have to FIND them. But that takes longer than a term, it costs money and it requires dedication.
Its much easier to go after another fixed target instead.
Yeah. Right Dubya... "IRAQ is EEE-VILLL. Ah'll kick they ass like mah daddy did." What a moron. The best part of him ran down his mother's leg.
Next we'll be reliving M.A.S.H.instead of just watching the fucking re-re-re-runs. Bet'cha Korea's next.
Meanwhile you'd better get ready to take it in the shorts because anybody can get into the US anywhere the cops ain't looking at that very moment.
And they can buy box-cutters at Staple's and ram high-jacked Greyhound busses into gasoline storage tanks. Two of the faithful dead, thirty or so other passengers roasted to a crisp and a million gallons of fuel up in flames. That's not a bad payoff for people who normally strap some dynamite to their chests and "go hangout with the Yids down at the mall."
The only good religious leader is some geek with big bad hair hipocrically crying crocodile tears and confessing in front of the audience that "Ah have Sinned! "
The diffrence between "Blow-Job" Roberts or any of the other fat lying bastards selling "Jayzus" and Mullah Omar is one of opportunity. That's all.
Don't agree? I don't give a fuck. I just read the history books and the obituaries. I HATE being right.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
"The FBI does have non-agent positions for people who are highly skilled in areas such as computer forensics (collecting evidence from computers). Those who don't qualify for agent positions can still serve as civilian employees, according to an FBI spokeswoman."
Now the "security consultant" says non-agents are "at the bottom of the food chain." Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But that doesn't seem to be the issue everyone has with the way the FBI operates. It sounds to me like people are upset that they can't be a Special Agent, and carry a badge and a gun, unless they are qualified to carry a badge and a gun. So sweeny can still be an FBI full-time employee specializing in computer security. Whats the problem?
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
If the army can admit people with eye correction needs so can the FBI. That restriction is a crock of shit...
Also, if your getting your eyes smacked, it don't matter if you have glasses or not, yer not gonna be seeing straight afterwards either.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
The key is finding your limit and pushing yourself just a little bit further.
As is usually the case with exercise, or learning a musical instrument, or anything else that takes serious effort, if you can suffer through two to three weeks, they you'll be fine. You'll even begin enjoying it..
One step at a time. Good luck...
like him. :)
Forget the physical requirements. I could pass them all except the vision (which really isn't my fault). I'd love to work for the FBI though except for one thing.
It's the pay. Anyone truely gifted isn't going to be making $50k a year in this field.. Geesh. When they realize that the agent who is a computer genius and an agent who got a "criminal law" degree are two different agents, then we can talk.
sorry when I saw the headlines I thought you meant "too phat for the FBI" - but then I read the article -sorry to have doubted -WR
Wow, if you want to be a federal law enforcement agent you need to pass a physical and background check. Is anyone really surprised? These agencies hire civilians to do specialised work who don't have to meet the physical requirements. If they are hiring geeks just to support tech law enforcement they don't need to be federal agents just support staff. The actual agents who carry guns, get out of the office, and arrest people probably do need to go through training which preclude the grossly obese. Also on background checks: as someone who has gone through the process elsewhere they aren;t looking to eliminate people because they swiped a chocalate bar when they were 10 but more to weed out those who have ideologies and weaknesses that preclude them from doing the job of enfocing the law and maintaining loyalty to the govt.
(nt) means "no text"
Yes, it's a blog. Sorry if that offends you.
Thats funny, As far as Im concerned, they can keep the stupid job. They would have to pay alot better than the outside just to put up with all the military requirements. As for me, nothing they paid would make it worth it. If I smoke pot, its my damm business. Nothings worth loosing your freedoms over.
Who the ????? would want to work for the FBI anyway? Spying on citizens? Covering your tracks because you can't do your job right? Holy moly! Most government workers are old and inept. It's especially hard to get fired, and it attracts people looking for such security.
Not to mention the cramp being in the FBI would put in your lifestyle. Yes, even fat-porks like me leave the apartment.
Being in the FBI would suck.
The peer-reviewed studies are unambiguous, even modest amounts of exercise have a profound effect on mortality rates.
As for your earlier attempt to run, ignore the assholes. Start by walking 30 minutes. Do that for a few weeks then try jogging for 30 seconds and walking for a few minutes. Over 6-8 weeks you'll slowly build up your muscles, tendons and cardiovascular system so you can run the entire distance. This isn't my idea, it's the plan developed by Dr. Kenneth Cooper, "father of aerobics," and adopted by the military for training their own people.
A variant of this is to start by walking, then shift to a stationary bike so you can have a constant load instead of the start-and-stop load from the run-walk approach. Again, after 6-8 weeks you can run it, but in this case you'll need to be careful about number of reps since you haven't strengthened the load-bearing tendons and such.
Finally, I do something like this when coming off of idle periods. I might spend a month on the stationary bike, but I'm developing the ability to work out continuously for an hour at a decent load, then can jump straight into ~7 mile runs on the treadmill.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
ehintz
People like you that feel so compelled to tell everyone they disapprove of just how much they dislike them. I could comment on how people like you sicken me because they're always too high strung, or can't feel good about themselves without putting others down, but I'll refrain from any such puerile act. Now, please go run for a few hours, because I am quite sure no one here is interested in your trolling.
Keep Austin Weird!
The article states requirements of, "[possesing] a college degree, be under 37 years old, morally irreproachable ... and physically fit."
By morally irreproachable they appear to mean, "abuse power and trust of the public in the name of your government. Extra points for detaining innocents in the name of stopping terrorism." Or is that defense of the "homeland" (motherland)?
Oooh Mr. Big-Shot knows all his numbers and he's gonna tell us how un-healthy we all are.
You are an abberation, I'm sorry.
Consider yourself lucky that you didn't get the hypo-metabolic end of the gene stick.
You gotta deal with us... you're the freak.
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
You can. You can join the forensics lab or other civilian support positions. You can only become an Agent - with all the legal powers thereof - if you can do everything an Agent needs to be able to do.
The problem the people are whining about in the article isn't that they're being prevented from working in a specialised area in the FBI, it's that they want the prestigious positions without doing the work required. Kind of like people thinking they should be adminning server farms because they installed Linux at home once.
Many FBI Agent Too Dumb to Be "Hackers"
All candidates must pass a color vision test.
I find this especially ironic considering that on the X-Files, Mulder was colorblind [and that was central to the plot in one episode]
How about a scenario where you have, oh, say, a drug dealer with a LAN which is not connected to the 'net and have to go on location to get access to it? At that point, if I were an Agent, I wouldn't want to be looking out for some lard-arse specialist, I'd like to know the guy doing the specialist work could cover my back in a firefight.
(* If you're fat, you're going to die before you have to. *)
Can you show that the total free time lost to excercise makes up for the extra life span?
Table-ized A.I.
but i cant run as you suggest, especially 2 miles, i can barely walk 1 mile (if i can at all).. if i ran id pass out after about 100 feet. so whats your suggestion?
It's easy...
1. Get out the front door, and carry a bit of chalk.
2. Jog (don't flat out run) as far as you can.
3. Mark the footpath with the chalk.
4. Tomorrow, jog as far as you can - push yourself and make sure you go past the line of chalk.
5. Make a new line.
6. Goto 4.
7. ???
8. Profit!
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
The FBI just does not want to pay for two seats when the fly you. It has nothing to do with caring for your health. If you croak early it is less pension forked out.
Table-ized A.I.
I think you need to use a while or for loop there - otherwise you can't get to the profit part.
When I see things like:
"They will not consider you unless you can carry your M16 through the physical fitness course without killing yourself in the process," Sweeny, maintainer of the PacketAttack website, said. "Most of the geeks I know view exercise as carrying the 80-ounce cola, pager and cell phone all at the same time."
and
"You won't get a position in computer security until you've worked at least five years on the beat, preferably in physical investigations," Rosenberger said. "They'll grudgingly let you past if you just do forensics, but they feel you really should chase bad guys with a gun before you chase bad guys with a computer."
Then I realize that it's no wonder that the FBI lags so far behind the terrorists that they're trying to catch, or that important pieces of information slip through their fingers with lethal side-effects. If they refuse to hire the best people for the job, or upon hiring them refuse to let them work in their chosen field then they deserve everything bad that happens to them.
The war on cybercrime and cyberterrorism is already lost because all of the smart guys are working for the other side. It seems that's the way that the FBI wants it.
There are still many agencies that are in need of agents with 1337 skills, and they don't have as strict requirements as the FBI. US Customs, the IRS, BATF, INS (Immigration) all have field agent/technician jobs. Their physical fitness requirements are secondary to qualifications and experience. Basically you need to be able to run a mile in under 15 minutes, then do 100 situps and 50 pushups. While that might preclude some people, it's not exactly the pinnacle of human fitness. They are pretty hardcore on the background check, though, but they're moving away from the polygraph since they're smart enough to realize it doesn't work. (Secret Service and FBI poly the most)
As far as your college degree, what was told me to directly by a hiring manager for US Customs is that they aren't as interested in criminal justice degrees as they are science/finance/tech degrees with maybe a few CJ courses or a minor thrown in. Anyone can learn the depth of Federal criminal code in training classes. It's harder to learn the skills that matter in 26 weeks of training.
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
I always wondered how a woman who is, well, about five feet tall, could make it into the FBI. I'm not complaining (hmm, Scully), but aren't there some minimum height requirements? Even with the heels? And those nice business costumes. The tight, dark-blue skirts. Those lips. *drool* Where was I?
;-)
Isn't there some sign at the entrance of Quantico, "You must be this tall to enter"?
its thinking and policies liek that that keep the fat/smart peopel out there crackign the software and hacking the computers, and the not-so-skilled-but-really-fit law enforcement guys playing catchup always 3 steps behind..
Just because someone is fat they can't have a job that requres them to sit at a computer terminal? Isn't this kind of thing illegal in the U.S.? (Note: I myself am not fat nor do I have any plans on applying for a job at the FBI)
Can you show that the total free time spent not exersising is going to compensate for years of bed-riddenness, high cholestorol, trouble walking any further than your fridge or fitting into a shower stall?
If you read the article they say if you want to be an FBI agent:
- You have to be fit *and* adhere to their code of morality.
- You need to be prepared to do operational work for 5 years at least before they give you a desk job.
- Their computer systems are utter crap but they hope to improve them to be useful someday.
To me that rules out all the geeks.
I recall looking awhile ago, and I remember that to be a field agent you have to have better than 20/200 vision before correction. I bet this would disqualify most of us too.
What?
If you start counting, and break out in the giggles halfway through, you probably won't pass, unless you can recover and explain what was funny about that time without ratting on your friends.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I can't even begin to imagine just why your wife left you, psycho...
Isn't there something more productive you could be doing right now? Like, giving your pit-bull a crewcut?
Can you show that the total free time lost to excercise makes up for the extra life span?
Yes. Running for 30 minutes 3 or 4 times a week is perfectly adequate to be in decent shape. Let's say 2 hours per week. So, your lifespan would have to increase by a factor of 168/166 = 1.012 to break even. Even if you'd live to be 80 without exercising, that's only an increase of 0.96 years. The difference between being completely sedentary and being in decent shape should add multiple years to your life, so it's not even close.
Especially in times of famine.
"My fingers Emit sparks of fire in Expectation of my future labours." William Blake
Then there was the line from Night of the Comet "*Daddy* would have bought us *Uzis*!"
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Let me recommend Clifford Stall's "The Cuckoo's Egg". If you are not familiar with it, it is an account of the year he spent tracking down an interloper at the lab he worked at. As he tracked the interloper he realized it wasn't just some local teenager with a modem and an attitude. It was an experienced guy with a checklist. Stoll watched him use his lab's computer to try to tap into military computers and steal military secrets.
The FBI are responsible for counter-intelligence, so he phones his local FBI office.
Now Stoll first went looking for the interloper because of a 75 cent discrepancy between two different user billing and accounting packages.
The FBI guy isn't interested in the fact that Stoll seems to have discovered a spy. He asks Stoll how large a monetary loss he can document. "Um. Seventy-five cents." "Well son, call us back when it gets to half a million dollars."
Stoll's documentation of tracking the interloper was doggedly methodical and scientific. This all happened about fourteen years ago. I wonder how much more clueful the FBI is now.
Stoll did mention meeting one FBI guy who was clueful about computers. Unfortunately, he wasn't all that senior. So he couldn't always co-operate, because of stupid FBI internal politics.
Stoll's account is quite funny. Highly recommended...
I could swear I've seen a report or two before that walking briskly is actualy healthier than running. It's less stress on the system over all (espesialy joints) and because it's not as tiring, you're more likely to continue doing it.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
The way to avoid screwed up knees is to avoid cement and stick to running on blacktop, or better yet, dirt.
The cake is a pie
http://www.jellybaby.ndirect.co.uk/lummox.htm this is me taking my nap, all my friends call me lummox on a Linux...
Run on the sidewalk.
Another one of you motherfuckers runs in front of my car again, I'm not fucking stopping.
Assholes.
Why the fsck anyone would willingly work for the FBI is completely beyond my comprehension. Especially if you have real skills. Looking to work long hours with little reward? Looking to get shit on by fellow government employees? Looking for a real prick of a boss who you can't tell to go fuck himself, unless you want to end up in jail? Well then join the military! Don't even think about the FBI. They're worse. Guaranteed.
Take up a martial art or something.
Dancing? For a guy? Don't be a HOMO!
(I don't mean homosexual/gay, I just mean a wussy wussy pussy).
I can give you a bunch of guy things to do.
Unless you're getting poon by dancing, then stick with Martial Arts. Kicks some frickin' ass.
You are not factoring in "free" time.
Besides, having a few extra hours today may be worth more than living longer later in life. It depends on the individual. Many don't look forward to their later years that much anyhow. IOW, quality, not quantity.
Table-ized A.I.
- They want to make sure that you're honest. If they ask if you've ever smoked pot at some point in the past and you say that you have, even if you doubt they could prove otherwise, you're being honest with them. If they disqualified everybody who had ever experimented with pot at one point or another in their youth, there would be a lot of empty offices at the J. Edgar Hoover Building. Nobody cares (well, almost nobody) about youthful indiscretions like this, so long as they do not represent current behavior patterns. What they care about is that you're honest enough to answer the question truthfully.
- They want to make sure that you've got nothing "on" you that can be used to blackmail you. This is a bigger issue for higher security clearances (i.e., Top Secret/SCI and above) than it is for general background checks. There are all sorts of obvious things that fall into this category such as extramarital affairs and the like. If you've got anything in your past that somebody else may be able to hold over your head and get you to compromise your position, you can bet that those boys are going to want to know about it.
- Finally, yes, they do need to weed out the undesirables (pun intended.) If a person who is a current drug dealer, wife-beater, or alcoholic applies with the FBI, then obviously they're a moron.
The point is this: You don't need to be an angel to pass a background check or get a security clearance. It might help, but it's not a requirement. What you need to be is honest. The chances of you getting brought up on charges for something stupid you did in your youth are virtually nil; the FBI has far more important things to do, particular these days.We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
At that point, if I were an Agent, I wouldn't want to be looking out for some lard-arse specialist, I'd like to know the guy doing the specialist work could cover my back in a firefight.
I know quite a few 'lard asses' (myself included) who could do a great job dropping the mouse and grabbing the gun. Heck, us fat guys better know how to shoot, we sure as hell can't run!
Besides, where do you think you are going to tap the LAN from? The dealer's closet? Just snake a cable downstairs or, better yet, let the gung-ho guys arrest the clown and take his computers back to HQ where you can crack them while eating your doughnuts and playing some MP3s...
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
Most of the people critisizing the FBI for having stringent requirements for agents (and just agents, mind you, as you can still be hired as a civilian employee without badge and gun) are the same fatasses who sit around ripping the FBI every chance they get.
Yeah, like I want YOU and your 300 pounds of fat and horrible myopic vision waddling around to save the country you seem so dedicated to preserve. I can see your skills will translate well into the field, where doing things like chasing a criminal over 100ft will make you all tuckered out. You big, fat hypocrites.
Swim then. It's not hard on the body at all
fbi OK. I recently took the the first exam at Denver, Byron G Roger Federal Building.
.gov wages. There are perks such retiring with a pension not worthless .com stock.
:>
I'm not not able to talk specifics on the testing but here are my impressions of attempting civil service.
I wanted to offer my C.S degree, 12+ years IT experience; eight of them with a very large and stodgy employer. It was a decision I made long before 911. It was during the DCMA and other scandals that were happening in the USA long before then. The app was finally processed this year.
I knew then, as all know now, the US Gov doesn't hire the best and brightest, in the quantity required.
Special Agents from those I talked to are expected to be all purpose types -- think clone troopers but with one or two add-ons in the odd times they are needed.
BTW talk to recuiters at fairs, approaching agents in the wild is not well taken in my experience.
Clone troopers is not derogatory but a compliment as they are all about execution of a successful mission, at any moment regardless of environmental and mental conditions.
Special Agents are badged & armed which means they can seize property and take custody of people within the workings of the law.
Every Agent undergoes the same testing process -- A civil servant, Interview and Physical. DUH!
The details are told up front to recruits in your "package". You should discuss the career choice with significant others and family.
Your assignment could range widely depending on Bureau needs and its not likely the place where your living now. You will likely be moved out of the area your currently in (read NYC, LA) until you reach enough seniority to request an assignment (read ready to retire.)
Special Agent is indeed a premo assignment as it starts GS10 + _possible_ relocation bonus if your assigned to an expensive area like NYC. GS 10 is 53,743 to $58,335 USD [fbijobs.com]. Not bad if your in the midwest where IT work doesn't top out at the high dollar. Its much better than most other
You could possibly get fast tracked for promo if you got skills and background to boot.
X-Military and Law should do better due to veteran preference benefits.
I'm rather fit at 5'11 ~170 and was a bit apprehensive of the milage required your required to run for the physical tests.
Indeed entry testing involves endurance running -- as in pretend your running down a "perp" -- at speed -- over sometimes great distance and without the aid of a Starbucks. I was briefed its 7 or 11 min/Mile possibly depending on gender and competition for slots. In 1980 say it could have been less strict.
Your expected to encounter situations necessitating the use deadly force. You must accept that your job is hazardous and you may be killed or maimed while executing your job or because of your job. Its also expected to be a 12 hour day on the job --- possibly on foot.
My views on the first round testing
1) The test is cake for anyone that easily passed Engineering Calc 100
2) Its not all about Engineering Calc but also character, morals and healthy self respect and respect for others (read this civil values)
3) Certain sins could be permitted if its an open secret or something can't/won't cause you to be blackmailed or otherwise manipulated for evil
In talking with a few person's who's opinion I trust anyone with computer skills in the FBI will get to see 1) k1ddi3 pr0n to categorize for evidence 2) a lot of wire fraud case reports 3) a lot of packing tape, boxes and baggies after siezing boxen & portable media as evidence. 4) The inside of the cruiser driving from case to case. 5) Their Veteran partner when not doing 1-4.
Passing round 1 gets you a possible scheduled (read calendar time) slot into round 2 which if passed gets you to bootcamp.
During boot camp you have a 40K salary for 16 weeks for the pain at the famous USMC/FBI spa and playground. _No_ relocation expenses for the family; Im truely sorry if you have one and are at boot camp.
Once out of boot camp your assigned to a Regional Bureau Office and to a Veteran for a probationary period on the order of 3 years. If you leave within your probationary years of your own accord (read not killed or maimed OTJ) you pay back Uncle Sam for all the money we spent on you.
Your expected to compile and file accurate and timely reports. Any those who have to compile more than twice -- go to the exit please --NOW!
Love of accuracy and case load is required here.
I was in with ~45 persons in for my round. The prompter quoted 1:20 candidates process through Round 1 testing. A vague rememberence of 1:40 make it past Round 2 and boot camp.
I still haven't got my results. Either I've suffered bureaucratic tape again or I washed out. Either way it was the best thing to do at the time.
P.S. Im NOT the guy that didn't know there was a pond in the lobby
>i can barely walk 1 mile (if i can at all)..
Walk 0.5 miles twice per day then. *Brisk* walk, not slow.
That might not be as effective as running, but if you manage your diet, it should do fine.
I bet in time you'll find that 0.5 miles isn't enough, you'll want more, and you'll be able to to more. Either that or you've got a serious medical condition, in which case talk to your doctor and ask him if this plan is safe.
And yeah, I need to follow that advice too.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
TKS.
this anchor tag has been specially designed to defeat the lameness filter
bike to work. you already have to get there somehow, so bike there instead of driving and count it as exercise. it takes me as long to bike to work as it does to drive (thanks to wonderful park/path system where i live as well as lots of stop lights and city traffic), so it is a zero cost in time for exercise. others may not be so fortunate as far as biking goes, but there are other ways - i put in sets of pullups/pushups when i'm really busy on a project and know that the 5 minute break will help me every hour - it is a small amount of exercise but benefits my work.
lots of exercise activities can have other purposes as well; canoeing/biking/climbing/playing sports/hiking with friends/loved ones can make for really good relationships and good memories. you don't have to approach it as "All I Am Doing Is Exercising".
-f
www.blackant.net
Two steps:
1. Recognize that your excuses are all self-defeating bullshit.
2. Work up to your goal.
No, the proper two steps are:
1. Recognize that you are not worth the air you breath.
2. Kill yourself now.
Sorry, it's the only way. Maybe you'll contribute to this universe as fertilizer, but I suspect you're just a large number of calories consumed, waste generated, and if your suicide is messy, a big cleaning bill as well.
It's frightening to think, but we're all counting on you to at least get this part right.
O.k. before you go off, think about this.
In any government job relating to the military/FBI/ or CIA one must first learn how to do the basics of the job. In the Marines no matter what job you do you're an infantry man first. In the Air Force is the same even though you are a network admin and sit on your but trying to figure out why something is broke-your still an airman you need to know how to shoot a gun don you gear...you never know what will happen in this world. And since the FBI is also limited to the amount of money they have they can't just hire some computer geeks to sit on their butts all day in front of the computer. Granted the higher ups can make some bad choices but don't blame the FBI as a whole. That's like condemning all the employees at Enron for what a few idiots did.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Actually, the M16A2 is still the standard-issue infantry rifle. The M4A1 is slowly supposed to phase out the M16 completly, but in pratice, the M4A1 is a very rare sight in anything but a Spec-Ops unit.
--CypherDragon
"Dancing. A little under three years ago a friend at work turned me on to ballroom dance, and it's how I get most of my exercise now. It's proof positive that exercise is not necessarily a hideous, awful affair."
/."
That was number 4 on "things I will never see on
Quick, someone bash Microsoft before it gets normal in here.
It is a good point, though.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
The FBI probably has the ability to take DNA samples from skin cells on one's resume and see if sender has a genetic propensity for obesity.
Then again, the donut crumbs and grease stains are probably a less expensive clue.
Table-ized A.I.
Actually, youre supposed to scream,
"NYPD!! Bend over darkie cuz we gonna sodomize you with a plunger handle!!"
Youre right..it does sound so much cooler.
Now that the firefighters have been arrested by the NY mayors and have picketed Bush, I presume the whining is over and we can go back to saying out loud that the NYPD are a bunch of killer thugs, right?
zeke
- You are a DNA biocomputer
- Exercise releases endorphins
- Endorphins make your biocomputer "feel" better
"Everybody is different" is your mantra of defeat. Your biocomputer will not allow "you" to be happy until you give in to the process. Dig?An experienced computer security person (BS plus 5 years experience plus security-specific training) in his/her late twenties can easily command $90K+ from private industry. For most people,the priviledge of carrying a gun and a badge isn't worth the salary cut (and those for whom it is worth it, hopefully they fail the psych tests).
I don't have anything against helping the government catch real (violent) criminals, but if the feds are interested in hiring people with real-world experience, they are going to find it difficult to compete with the salary offered by private industry for experts in this field.
Forget the disdain from the "Special Agents"...
A more personal issue that has not been mentioned, is the special hatred all hackers, white or black hat (or any shade in between), hold in their hearts for the turncoats who dare to "sell out", going to work on the side of the prosecution.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Where does it say that if you run rugularly and are >250 lbs. that you're a glutton? I'm a 5'8, 210lb. geek that runs approx. 10+ miles a week [damn military regulations (and yes, New Balance makes the best running shoes)]. I sometimes do free weights, and enjoy running and working out. Gives the mind some free time that it doesn't have to concentrate on new information, and can process what I've already picked up that day. Plus, it's a great relaxant. I was a diagnosed insominac for years before I joined the service, and found out that working out is about the best thing to cure insomnia. Something about your body being to tired not to sleep.....(YMMV)
--CypherDragon
oh yeah no black people either.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
there's no room for you in the FBI.
Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
Why, fat can make a wonderful weapon. You fall on the enemy and sufficate them. Plus, it serves as padding when you fall down. In fact, if you are fat enough, there is no such thing as "falling over". A ball cannot "fall over".
I am gonna grab more donuts and Ho Ho's and become the best damned agent that ever rolled into an FBI recruiting office. I will even hand them a round resume instead of a rectangular one to be more memorable.
I'll show them.
Table-ized A.I.
Dead employees tend to present management problems. They don't argue much but you can't say much good about their results... ;-)
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Piss off, fatty.
Tell you what. If you stop posting to Slashdot for a day, I'll buy you a 12-pack of Twinkies!
Now ain't that SUMPTIN ??
You don't seem to be factoring in "reality".
Because in "reality" people who regularly exercise report enjoying life more, and senior citizens who continue to exercise report enjoying life more than their sedentary counterparts. IOW, quality in quantity.
You seem bent on this hypothetical person who is 4 standard deviations from the mean who has plenty of energy, feels great all the time and is readily willing to give up a few hours now at the expense of years in the future (both raw numbers of years of life, and quality of those twilight years).
Does your hypothetical person forego showers so that they can enjoy more quality time now?
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Most FBI Too Stupid For The Hackers
It's discriminatory, dammit. I don't think being metaphysically challenged should present a barrier to employment.
Why is this such a big suprise to everyone?
The purpose of agents in the FBI are for law enforcement purposes, specifically, the enformcement of federal laws. All agents need to be able to handle, or contribute to, any type of criminal case, not just the one they have a specialty in. Just becasue you are a computer expert doesn't mean you won't be working a kidnapping or bank robbery. You have to be able to meet the standards that any other agent meets. Plain and simple. This is especially true for major events like the federal building bombing in Oklahoma and the 9/11 investigations. During these times most agents were retasked to assist in these investigations. It's not like you are going to refuse because "I don't do bombings, I do computer fraud." You're not a team player with an attitude like that and the FBI and other federal agencies don't need people like that.
Also, I've been reading about the compensation comments here. Yes, we'd all like to make more money, but money is not the reason you join a group like the FBI. I can't think of one specialty in the FBI that wouldn't pay more on the outside world. There are many reasons people join the FBI (other other agencies):
* Patriotism
* The opportunity to work with 'the best'.
* The opportunity to do things that only working at the federal level will allow you (protecting the President (USSS), protecting Air Force One around the world(USAF SP), developing unique CPUs (NSA), seeing what's really involved with regard to world events (NSA, CIA, State Department), etc.)
* Love of a particular field (e.g. law enforcement)
* The best training in the world in your field.
Besides, people with backgrounds in the FBI will be able to make very good money once they leave/retire.
I was reading through the whole thread hoping to find someone that felt as I do, and finally saw this. I'd posit that you are absolutely right, and this does not go only for obesity. With anything, if one truly wishes to stop a behavior, one will take the consequences. If they do not, they did not really wish to stop.
If I am told that I must lose weight (a.k.a. stop eating so much) or I will die of heart disease/renal failure/having the weight cut off my air supply/etc., I will stop eating so much and hunger pangs be damned. I do not need liposuction, stomach stapling/shrinking surgery, or amphetamines.
There are some that use food as a coping mechanism, but the argument above holds true for them as well. You should find a better way of coping with problems than running to food. In the cases of people of this sort, there are instances where they just choose a different way of running from their problems. They have stomach surgery or are prescribed amphetamines and take the weight off. This, however, does not fix the underlying problem(s), and these people turn to alchohol or drug abuse because they cannot turn to food any longer. These people should just deal with whatever their problems happen to be. Yes, it is difficult and most likely a painful experience, but it is far better for the person to do this than to run away from such things and hurt themselves in the process. By confronting the issues they can save much physical trouble (surgery, detrimental effects of obesity, etc.), not to mention money (surgery, medical expenses from obesity related health problems).
It appears I've rambled on. At any rate, thank you Xerithane for showing that I'm not the only one of this opinion.
"I swear I won't break you if you let me take you where the willows never weep" -- Switchblade Symphony
Very interesting analysis of that question.
muahaha
. Telling these people, "Get off your ass you fat fuck!" does not help. In fact, I think it exacerbates the problem that you deplore.
While I might take issue with the use of 'these people' I have to say that being told to get off my fat lardy ass worked for me - I'm 70% my former weight and feeling and coding better for it.
Whichever shoes I wear, a 20 - 30 min run every other morning and a swim once a week do the trick. Oh, and I never have any soft drinks, which must help!
I almost always go to bed a little hungry because I refuse to eat after 8pm unless Im out for dinner - I read somewhere that some boxer had this rule, eat a truckload for breakfast, a bundle for lunch and a snack for supper, and nothing after 8.
Doesn't matter what you eat - eat anything - just dont eat much of it after 4pm, and none after 8pm. And go for a run in the morning.
Oh, and you can usually fiund a hash chapter in most places in the world. I doubt whether it has started up yet in Afghanistan, but they are already in Uzbekistan and Pakistan as well as many places closer to home.
See my journal, I write things there
I have had times in which I have seen color differences that people with "normal" vision could not see.
If you watch and are not bashfull about asking, you can find places where the paint on walls has been retouched in the wrong color and yet it not noticeable/dumb looking to the general population. I used to think everyone could see it.
Sometimes I can catch my wife making mistakes when sorting socks for instance but she has good vision.
At least one of the old dot tests has numbers that we can see that are quite hard for the normal vision folks.
No, part of the problem is that all of the decent jobs offered by the FBI require that you are an agent.
Based on the "bottom of the food chain" comment in the article, it's rather likely that there are lots of qualified people who would want to work for the FBI in computer security, not necessarily as agents, but who (understandably) want some respect.
if I were an Agent, I wouldn't want to be looking out for some lard-arse specialist, I'd like to know the guy doing the specialist work could cover my back in a firefight.
Cover your back? No, make the lard-arses cover your front. The more ridiculously obese they are, the more cover they provide. And more bullet-stopping potential.
You just have to make sure they don't fall backwards, or you'll get squashed.
My I recommend the Couch to 5k running plan?
None of the comments here have mentioned the possibility that the fitness test is not there as an end in itself. I would suspect that the primary purpose of checking that candidates for desk jobs are in shape is to ensure that they are in control of their lives and have the right attitude. Being fit and healthy is a very good indicator that you will turn up to work on time, don't go out on the piss too often, get a consistent and reasonable amount of sleep and so on. All of these things are desirable characteristics for a federal employee. And the bottom line is that if you want to be a federal agent, and you can't pass the test then unless you hit the gym and get in shape, you obviously don't want to be a federal agent badly enough.
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
Geeks is usually kinda intelligent... Why is it that they can't see the connection between exercising and better health/longer life?
Unfortunately here the extra longevity is theoretical only, since in London you would be hit by a white van or a mother in a SUV long before you reached normal life expectancy. Not that cyclists here wear helmets or have lights or obey traffic rules anyway. Our cycle lanes are a joke, about 0.8 metres wide, and sometimes only 5 metres long (!)
The "I did it then you can do it" is BS IMNSVHO.
And your restaurant solution is duboius: if you are not going to eat it then ask for half the normal portion (ask how big the portions are).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Hacker Beefcake! Hacker Beefcake!
"Mulder had to pass the physical"
He must have cheated...
"Candidates must be completely available for assignment anywhere in the FBI's jurisdiction, have uncorrected vision not worse than 20/200 (Snellen) and corrected 20/20 in one eye and not worse than 20/40 in the other eye. All candidates must pass a color vision test. "
Remember the episode where the bad guys adds this little box to the tv:s, that adds "invisible" frames that makes the people watching the tv:s go insane? Scully and Mulder skimms through a bunch of tapes and Scully goes insane but Mulder doesn't, which he later on (when he checks with the lone gunmen) belives has to do with the fact that he's color-blind.
If this is a problem for you, you should check out The Hacker Diet - How to lose weight through stress and poor nutrition.
I think it just seems like there are so many kids 18-25 these days because the ecomony took a dive and it's difficult for those inexperienced people to find jobs (especially techies).
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
But "in the FBI, if you're not an agent, you're on the bottom of the food chain," Richard Forno, an independent security consultant, said.
Like Dan and Chevy Chase in Spies Like Us, right? Didn't they get the girls in the end?
"He who questions training trains himself at asking questions." - The Sphinx, Mystery Men (1999)
He's always lifted weights, and got me into it too. As you can see on his site, he's done a damn good job of trimming down. If you have a question, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer it.
Fitness and nutrition work for EVERYBODY, it's just a lot of large people don't have the resolve to follow-through. I know I don't, so I'm still 50lbs more than I was in HS - but that's better than the 90lbs more I was last year.
But I can still jump cubes, so maybe Bishop will give me a job :P (Obscure movie ref)
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
I felt the same way after 9/11. I checked the listings. The pay they are giving is the equivalent that is given to entry level -- no experience -- staff with basic CS degrees. And they often want 10+ years experience. I expected to take a pay cut, but I expected it to be somewhat reasonable. I wouldn't be able to support my family on those salary ranges.
The FBI is right to shun geeks. Geeks are pretty much worthless. Now scientists, programmers, analysts -- those are useful. But geeks? Useless.
Geeks fret about things that don't matter. Geeks have an unpleasant way of interacting with people. Geeks have their own special humor, that isn't so funny at all once you realize how stunted it is. Geeks lack focus, and will expend tremendous amounts of energy on something that has no real value. Geeks truly do suck.
This is not to say that geeks lack skills. But geeks acquire their skills in a very fragmented, unfocused, serependitous way, which is why they think becoming an "uber-hacker" is hard. In reality, it is their preparation, or lack of same, which makes it appear to be hard. In other words, geeks overvalue the little competency that they have, while they tend to underappreciate their gross deficiencies.
The age that hackers could live inside their little bubbles and expect to be paid for it is over. Computers have become part of the world. The best computer specialists are those that partake in that world, too.
Jeez, you guys are so paranoid about your privacy that you get all bent out of shape when Microsoft sneezes. How would you feel signing your entire private life over to the agency? Think they won't check out every single detail in your past, especially nowadays? My aunt told me that they were one big family, and that they stood behind each other like a family. Sorry, that didn't appeal to me, and kind of creeped me out. I am not of the "club" or "fraternity" mentality.
There are two areas in the FBI - support and agents. Agents are the ones who have to carry guns, and go through the more intense training. Support personnell can range from linguists to translators, to computer people. But the agents are what everyone aspires to be, even though they couldn't do their job with the massive amounts of support personnell.
You can get into the FBI and not be an agent. Just be prepared for what you would be signing away if you did join. I don't think most hackers/crackers/script kiddies would be willing to do it.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
...work for the FBI they'd tell him to take a hike?!?! Granted, Hawking's expertise wouldn't be applicable to FBI work, but you get the point. There are a lot of poeple with physical disabilities who excell in the various fields of technology that the FBI would be lucky to get...if it weren't for their ridiculous physical standards.
I find it interesting that the FBI can discriminate against the deaf and the color-blind/blind. Clear violations of the ADA, and candidates with such impairments, who are otherwise qualified (4 year degree + whatever else they need (like CCNP, CCIE)) can't be legally discounted against--yet they do and it's right there on the page! Maybe someone should sue...
site
The FBI is bloated with procedure. It needs to slim down.
As a citizen and taxpayer, I believe the FBI should have the best computer security people available. Not the best computer security people who are physically fit, or meet other non-important criteria to computer security. Physical fitness has nothing to do with computer ability. It is like saying in order for me to be a FBI agent, I need to be good looking. Even though being good looking may be very important if I ever get interviewed for the evening news, it won't help me do my job.
The government does have a responsibility to safeguard its secrets and protect itself, so I don't mind the background check.
Take, for example, the Olympic decathlon. There are 10 events, all of which are in the Olympics as other events. Do decathloners set world records in each of those 10 events? Could they even compete with other Olympic athletes in individual events? The answer is no. In order for a decathloner to develop the broad skills useful in all 10 events, he or she cannot become an expert in any particular event.
It is not acceptable to have computer security agents that don't know what a buffer overflow is, because they were busy learning how to fire a gun.
We are increasingly moving towards specialization in science. Someone said that a scientist today has only slight knowledge of things outside his or her field, but deep understanding of his or her specialty. The FBI must shed some procedural weight if it wants the best computer security possible. Otherwise, we will lose the fight against cyber-terrorism.
If your only problem is that you're a lazy slob, then maybe you'll need to get off your lazy butt and do some excercise before applying?
...The Close-Quarters Weapons System (CQWS). It's a variant of the M4A1 Carbine that will potentially replace the MP4-N (made by H&K) currently used by the Marine Corps. The primary difference in our variant is that it uses a rail system for adding just about any crazy little accessory that you could ever imagine (M203 grenade launcher, flashlight, laser sight, diopter sight, etc). The diopter sight is standard and I had the opportunity to try it out at Quantico's Weapons Battlion's range with the guys of the Marine Corps Scout-Sniper Instructor School (the FBI Academy is a half-mile up the road, ironically enough). I fixed their computers all the time when I was stationed there, so this was their way of thanking me.
The weapon is about as perfect as one could ask. And the diopter sight? Awesome. Forget iron sights. This little puppy has a suspended red dot and all you have to do is put the dot on the appropriate part of the target (chest-level @ 200M, shoulder-level @ 300M, head-level @ 500M) and you'll hit center mass every time. I even went crazy trying to get improper sight-alignment and/or sight-picture and miss - it didn't happen. If the dot appears to be on the target, you'll hit it. One of the best weapons systems I have ever used (other than the Mk-19: imagine a heavy machine gun that fires grenades) and I hope the Marine Corps adopts it.
Have you ever looked at the hard numbers collected by university researchers? No offense, but your experience (and any other single person's experiences) really don't mean squat since there's too many unknowns - are you successful because you're still in your 20s and have high hormone levels, or perhaps you and your friends eat at a local restaurant that uses products with an unusually high selenium level. (Not that selenium actually helps, but it's been named as a possible micronutrient that helps weight loss.)
That's why I said that the macronutrient approach is bullshit. It might work for some people, but even a cursory glance at any public space will show you that it's missing something very important.
To be honest, the rate of obesity today reminds me (and others) of cigarette consumption in the 60s and 70s -- by then everyone knew that it was dangerous, everyone "knew" that all it took to quit was "will power," yet tobacco consumption remained high. Plenty of people tried to stop smoking, but the relapse rate was around 98%. Today we know that obesity is extremely dangerous, we all know "easy ways" of losing weight, yet something like 98% of all people who attempt to lose weight regain it (and usually more) within a year. At the same time, over half of the population is overweight or obese.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
1. Recognize that your excuses are all self-defeating bullshit.
2. Work up to your goal.
all right then, what's your suggestion when one has a blown out knee, ankle, and two busted shoulders from highschool football?
--Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time
People who are obese are unable to control cravings for addictive substances in foods.
Carbohydrates are NOT the cause. Have you ever seen someone stuff their face with strawberries or any other fruit even though they are absolutely delicious?
Opioid peptides are the primary culprit. While it is commonly thought only the opium poppy produces opioid peptides that is not the case. All grains and all dairy products contain them. Grains contain them for the same reason the poppy does, to ward of insects that would eat them. Mammals produce opioid peptides to calm baby mammals and make them addicted to the mother.
When people are addicted to cookies, cake, and any other snack food, it is not the SUGAR that is addicting, but the opiod peptides. THe surest way to tell is to put that cupcake in front of your face and then a nice apple. If you want to eat the cupcake but no the apple you are NOT hungry, but craving the opioid peptides in the foods.
Almost ALL cases of asthma and constipation are caused by opioid peptides in foods. Abstaining from foods containing them will let you breath easier. Many people can't work out well because their respiration is so surpressed by the opioid peptides. this is also why so many athletes abuse amphetamines, they don't really help them except by reversing respiratory suppression. Also, constipation is not physically possible unless you consume some kind of opioid.
Wheat Gluten is the worst offender, it is found in pasta. Gluten is also added to tons of prepackaged food. Gluten is decomposed into several glucomorphine molecules, one of which is 100x as powerful as the morphine molecule found in the poppy. Next is Whey, which is mostly casein, a protein which is decomposed into powerful opioid peptides. You will find Whey and Gluten in the most ridiculous places, like spiced meat. It is there not for flavor, but for the addictive high.
Many of the heterocyclic amines which are carcinogenic and addictive in tobacco are found in cooked foods. Heating protein to extreme structures has unpredictable results, but always breaks them down into simpler amines. Some of these are beta-carbolides, which influence benzodiazepine receptors in the brain, just like valium does. Cooked meat contains these subtances, as well as cooked grains, nuts and legumes which are also rich in protein. Raw meat does not.
Basically, eat just raw fruits, nuts, and raw fish and you will be set. You will lose weight fast, breath easier, and overcome many other health problems I haven't even touched on here.
Remember, Emperor Nero said all the people need to keep quiet is bread and games. The SYSTEM wants you to consume opioid peptides because they make you apathetic and could care less about your life. Caffeine is the legal stimulant because it partially overcomes the sedative effects of a grain based diet, but it doesn't give you back your will like amphetamine and cocaine does. The government and the powers that be want you to eat these foods because you wont give a shit how they are running the country, or keeping you a prisoner of your own lifestyle. A lazy fat ass is also someone extremely unlikely and UNABLE To resist the will of the man. Wheat is and always has been a tool of control, to keep slaves from rebelling. Think about that the next time you eat that Twinkie.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
I'm about 75 lbs. overweight. Something happened to me today to make me want to shed that 75 lbs. For the most part, I'm in excellent health, can run, lift a hell of a lot more than most of you so-called "healthy" people and my blood pressure is low. But this morning, when I sat down on the couch and bent over to tie my shoes, I got a horrendous shock of pain in my back. That extra 75 lbs up front is starting to take a toll on my spinal cord.
For those geeks & nerds who aren't aware, the Schoolhouse Rock 30th anniversary DVD was released on July 27th.
Really cool. I haven't seen some of them in years.
If you don't know why three is the magic number, you probably don't know Schoolhouse Rock.
Running works for me. I couldn't even do a half-mile when I started, and now I run 5 miles in 50 minutes, and do it all over again two days later.
... there's hundreds of ways of exercising. And there's a dozen ways to learn about it. If you learn stuff by having someone tell it to you, hire a trainer. If you learn stuff by reading O'Reilly books, go read "Fitness for Dummies" instead. If you learn stuff by web surfing, a couple minutes at Google will get you started.
But, if running doesn't work for you
Stay the hell away from anybody who gives you shit about the level you are currently at. That includes Slashdot. If you go the gym and somebody stares at you because you're moving the pin from "70" down to "30" when you get on the machine, stare right back. That's what I do.
If it's your trainer who gives you attitude about that, fire them and don't pay them. Their job is to get you from level N to level N+1, not give you any shit about being at level N in the first place.
If you're hung up on the "geeks and working out don't mix" idea, don't think of it as working out. Think of it as modding your body!
Swimming or water aerobics.
(* Because in "reality" people who regularly exercise report enjoying life more, and senior citizens who continue to exercise report enjoying life more than their sedentary counterparts. *)
That is hardly scientific. For one, it does not determine the cause. It is like the old battle over whether violent people watch more violent TV because they get off on it, or because the extra TV made them violent.
I don't feel noticably different between periods when I excercise a lot and times when I have vegged for a while. I might lose say 5 pounds and be able to bend about a little easier, but beyond that, I don't feel noticably different.
In the short term, excercize makes my joints stiff and sensative.
Table-ized A.I.
Why bother? If you just want to hack and carry a gun you can do that at home. If you really want to you could form some sort of militia that hunts down bad guys. Get enough kick ass hackers with automatic weapons and maybe we can start our own government. Finally be able to hunt down those RIAA bastards. ;) If you just want a paycheck then go work at Pizza Hut.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
So? Thin and fat geeks are at the bottom of the food chain in any organization of over 5,000 employees that's not a geek enterprise. They may get paid well, or often very well, but they're at the bottom.
Don't believe me? Call the CEO and ask him/her to meet you for lunch to "just wanted to see how you're doing".
Don't tell ME, that it's all from lazyness. Some people are geneticly prone to being fat, while others like me are prone to being skinny. I want to loose a couple of kilos, because I don't like the love handles I'm starting to get, and I don't like the fact, that I have ~1 cm of fat covering my breast muscle. I CAN loose that weight - my brothers can't.
Doesn't help. Like I said, I eat more than they do. At one point, I actually ate more than both of them, when they were both on a diet.
For some people, it's their life that causes their obesity, for other people it's their genes. Kinda like intelligence - some have it, some don't.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Learning how to break a comfort-habit is hard, but it takes a lot of will power. Comfort habits are typically dangerous to your person as well.
There is a big problem I see with your take on this issue (and this really goes for everything you've written about it thus far).
What exactly is a "comfort habit"? It sounds to me like a layman's description of why a person does a repetitive action. I think the reasons why a person overeats can be many, can be complex, can be different from person to person, and, almost always, come from years and years of psychological training. How "strong" does one have to be to be able to break that training? How does one measure the "strength" required to be able to do so? For some people, I think it may be a simple matter of willpower. For others, I don't think there is any amount of willpower which will allow them to overcome their "comfort habit," as you call it.
I think the problem boils down to this: we don't understand well why some people overeat, and we barely understand how to measure human intelligence at all. I think it's unkind and inaccurate to label these people as "weak." I think "stupid," or "crazy" would be more accurate (but no less kind).
In the future, we will have discrete quantifiers for all kinds of human intelligence and behaviors. It's a shame that with our astounding knowledge of physics and technology that we really are so bone-headedly ignorant of neurology and psychology.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
"Right son, you're nicked."
deus does not exist but if he does
I know it was only a few days ago, but in case anyone out there is looking for the perfect way to lose weight, theres always this: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/28/213220 4&mode=thread&tid=127
Just got my pad a few weeks ago and ive lost around 10 lbs...
That way, the new guy doesn't bollux up an investigation by committing some mistake which a defense attorney can present as a violation of his client's rights and grounds for dismissal.
The FBI? Are you kidding?!?!! The FBI doesn't release any documents to a defense attorney! Those are classified!
:-)
Mike
Watch out for those diet drinks. The fake-sugar compounds were poorly tested, and have extraordinarily bad side effects. Nutra-sweet, when exposed to even moderate heat, breaks down into methyl alcohol and formaldehyde -- Both of which do really nasty things to the human nervous system.
Run a google search to see what I'm talking about. Most people can handle a drink or two without problems. But it doesn't scale well. Drink to much, keel over. A small percentage of the population can't handle any at all.