Organizing Sim Protests

Shadow Wrought writes "Alternet has an article about how to go about protesting McDonald's in the Sims Online universe. According to the story "A deal struck between Sims publisher Electronic Arts and the fastfood mega-corporation allows Sims players to open up their own McDonald's kiosk and improve their game stats by consuming McD's greasy goodies." This then tells how to vent any rage that such may conjure. Mayhaps a venue to protest other issues as well?"

Comments

Rational for protesting?

[egg troll]

Most Sims players are already fat from eating McDonalds and playing The Sims all day. They don't want the shame of having their Sim alter egos puffing up on SimBigMacs and SuperSizedSimFries.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[Lechter]

Perhaps this is foolish optimism, but maybe if hard core Sims players enjoy using their "Simians" (WTF?) to protest corporate greed it will lead them to do so in real life.

Of course, having only watched others play the game, I look at a story like this and think: "Gee, at least that gives the game some sort of point..."

Maybe this will give people the courage and the motivation to make their ideas heard, at least somewhere... Or maybe having people live their lives through online characters, protesting online issues, and concerned with their online world will lead to the decline of and fall of human civilization... Maybe it's about time for me to go home, and get ready to go out for dinner...

I just don't know...

Re:Rational for protesting?

[DEBEDb]

Why shouldn't people voice their opinion -
you just voiced yours (about getting a job,
blablabla). Put up or shut up.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[Moofie]

Yeah. Stupid civil rights movement. Take what you are gettin' and be happy about it!

Uh, no.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[GreggBert]

And while your at it...get off my lawn !

Re:Rational for protesting?

[perljon]

Kind of ironic wasn't it? You would think that would have been apparent with the "but no one cares" ending, hunh? But don't let a good opinion get in the way of the facts.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[p_trinli]

That's *rationale*, not rational. Rationale is a reason for doing something, whereas rational is something in keeping with reason.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[plumby]

Or maybe many of them don't protest because they don't think that they can change anything. In the UK's last election, more people didn't vote at all than voted for the government. This does not strike me as 90% of people thinking things are 'good'

Re:Rational for protesting?

[Wolfrider]

Seriously, can somebody tell me what the BFD is? McD's gotta make money, Sims developers gotta make money, and it sounds like the McD's mod helps your Sim. Why is this Bad? Granted MCD's sells plastic-like food, but their Fish and 99c menu is still pretty good, and they run a lot of charity stuff...
.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[elveu]

as the article mentioned it is unlikly that the cost of the sims will decrese becease of the advertising deal. this means that the users don't benefit from it but get stuck with annoying product placement.

Re:Rational for protesting?

[perljon]

On a serious note, (cause the original post was obviously intentional flamebait)...

I think lack of voter-ship for a certain percentage of the people is contentness. On one hand, people migh say, 1 vote doesn't matter. But on the other hand, when something really important is up for the vote, you always get a lot better turnout. Which to me indicates, at least a certain percentage of people are content...

Re:Rational for protesting?

[taphu]

you mean "get off my simLawn!" :p

Nothing makes a statement

[Anonymous Coward]

Like staying at home playing games.

Re:Nothing makes a statement

[Gehenna_Gehenna]

Except, of course, staying at home and playing a game about someone who, in order to protest Mc Donalds, stays home and plays games.

By the way WHEN can I buy the SIMs add on that allows my SIMs to play SIMs? They already work, go on vacation, get dumped women, and kill their pets. Lets go full cirle. It's about time my SIM started spending this money on video games so I don't have to.

Re:Nothing makes a statement

[allism]

I guess you never bought the computer...

Interesting Idea

[davidmcn]

To think, we've moved into a society that has a need to protest virtual issues online. Even more interesting is that sometimes people seem more interested in these virtual issues than the ones that actually plaque society.

Re:Interesting Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Somebody needs to do something about these issues that are causing all this plaque. We all need to take a stand and brush our teeth god dammit!

Re:Interesting Idea

[flyneye]

well now lets go with this for a second.how bout virtual other stuff for the sims.lets have some vices and some hard realities.how bout sim mafia,sim venerial disease, sim crack,sim gov't regulations.
or how bout sim political parties.i can see skinhead nazis and klan jumpin to get involved online.
but ya know i think people play these games to escape to a more perfect world for a while.

Re:Interesting Idea

[zanerock]

Ha! I think you're correct, there is really not much rational for "protesting" per se. It's not really a moral issue... well, maybe in a round about way.

There is something interesting happenning, though. By encouraging people to act a certain way and getting a reward, even if it is in an fake world, it does have consequences in the real world. Here, it's not *so* bad. It might encourage people to get fat (in the real world).

The problem is that a reward is a reward. While buying a virtual hamburger is not the same as buying a rela hamburger, the actions are related. The cause-effect is not direct, but it is real. Studies have shown as much (which I should cite, but I'm at work now and shouldn't take too much of my employer's time... maybe after I get home). McDonald's certainly thinks there's a link, or they would not have made the deal.

What happens is that people get desensitized to the concern's about bad fast food. While this case is rather innocuous, as online games like this get bigger, and attract more people and interest, one must be more aware of the effect. What if they made a deal with the Republicans where you got a better rating by voting Republican? Or, more subtley, whenever a Republican ruled the virtual world, things were great, and when a Democrat was in charge, your pretent economy tanked. Likely few would even notice, and the ones that did would be discounted, but the effects could be very real.

A thousand votes either way...

Re:Interesting Idea

[jandrese]

I'd think that proper brushing would get rid of most of those issues that plaque society.

Re:Interesting Idea

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

Oh yeah smart guy? Well what about the plaques that plague society?

Re:Interesting Idea

[bwalling]

To think, we've moved into a society that has a need to protest virtual issues online. Even more interesting is that sometimes people seem more interested in these virtual issues than the ones that actually plaque society.

I think we need a mod for playing The Sims, that way I can control multiple characters inside The Sims, and I can have a bigger voice when there are critical issues that affect my fake, virtual life.

Excuse me, there is some sunlight creeping in the window, I have to go cover it up before it ruins my fantasy.

Re:Interesting Idea

[EggMan2000]

We used to protest rule changes and bugs in Ultima Online by all dressing up in black or yellow shirts and camping out at the main bank.

There was also a protest where people were asked to create a character on a particular shard to protest another shard server's constant technical issues. As I recall a lot of people were suspended from the game for a couple days.

The point is that when you are addicted to a game, or really, really, enjoy an online game - You act up! Check out these screenshots from UO where people are protesting.
1,2,3.

Does it work? Not usually, but it does get the attention of the Game Masters, and shows the world you care about an issue.

Maxis and these other companies want to create Virtual Worlds. It is only natural that the people that play these games will take an active role.

Re:Interesting Idea

[travdaddy]

What if they made a game where you got a better score by shooting people? What happens is that people get densensitized to the concerns about murder. Oh wait, that already happened.

Nevermind.

Re:Interesting Idea

[DenOfEarth]

I agree with you for the most part, but I think this is an example of the kind of branding that really stinks. The idea that eating greasy virtual Burgers probably won't directly impact a normal persons eating habits, but those of children...hmm...it makes me wonder.

Re:Interesting Idea

[nolife]

What happens is that people get desensitized to the concern's about bad fast food.

That's a neat way of saying "I know the down side but I don't care". I did not care about fast food either until I got pancreatis from high triglycerides. Now I do! Actually fast food was a small contributor but genetics was the major cause, either way I no longer eat it. People do not eat fast food because of being desensitized, they eat it because they like it, it is convienent, and it is cheap. An ad for Mcdonalds wether in a game or on TV might get you to go to McD's over BK but it is not going to prevent you from eating a healthy salad with low fat dressing and jogging in the morning.

Re:Interesting Idea

[m.lemur]

how bout sim mafia

Its called Grand theft Auto: Vice City

Re:Interesting Idea

[zanerock]

Yeah, I was going to use that as my example, but that it brings in a whole lot of other issues that I didn't have time. I myself like side-scrolling fighters, though I do find Grand Theft Auto *very* disturbing.

Not that it's a defense, these things do have their problems, but if the message is *too* blatent, it's not as effective. A subtle suggestion that hamburgers are good for you may actually be more effective than the suggestion that it's okay to kill.

The problem is, of course, that even if the suggestion is much less effective, the results are much more catastrophic when it *is* effective.

There's a lot more to it, in both, cases of course. Ah... if only I didn't have to earn money.

Re:Interesting Idea

[Yogidabear]

What if they made a deal with the Republicans where you got a better rating by voting Republican? Or, more subtley, whenever a Republican ruled the virtual world, things were great, and when a Democrat was in charge, your pretent economy tanked. Then the game would reflect the real world too much? ;)

Re:Interesting Idea

[zanerock]

Definetly. McDonald's whole strategy, which I do consider very ethical questionable, is to target children so that they'll be more likely to remain customer's as adults and bring their children in. This is the (sick) genius behind the Happy Meal and their plethora cartoonish mascots.

Children are, generally, more sucseptiple (sp?) to such tactics.

Re:Interesting Idea

[louzerr]

If only people could protest from home, anonymously, on real issues - then people might actually get involved.

Does anyone know if McDonald's has paid any lobbyists to join Sims Online to fight these protests?

Re:Interesting Idea

[Caffeine Pill]

"By encouraging people to act a certain way and getting a reward, even if it is in an fake world, it does have consequences in the real world."

So we should be on the lookout for a mother sueing EA when her son gorges himself to a heart attack and she blames it on the games influence. Nah, the media would never pick up on that story.

Re:Interesting Idea

[zanerock]

Three things, first, the convenience, cost, and taste *are* indeed the biggest factors why people eat fast food. Desensitization (I'm glad you like that, I pondered it for a bit), in this case, is a minor factor, but still enough to sway some people.

Also, the effect of what is going on may be primarily through some other mechanism, but McDonald's does believe that, somehow, it will convince people who otherwise wouldn't to buy their product. Admitedly, most of these people would simply be eating Mcdonald's instead of Burger King, but still.

I myself don't think that this particular instance of... virtual endorsement is such a big deal, but one can extend it to more serious things. Except, as another poster pointed out, that it is kind of a big deal to children who don't know any better to care about fast food. If the game encourages them to eat fast food, then they do not have the knowledge to take the information that the game is feeding them (McDonald's food is good for you) with a grain of salt.

Finally, I'm all for free markets and business and such, and have no problems with ads. Even spam doesn't bother me that much (but I don't run a public mailserver either...). But, TV commercials, billboards, spam, etc. are blatantly ads. You're prepared, in your mind, to evaluate them in context. Such "hidden" advertising is somewhat worrisome, and it's getting very prevalent in society.

I think maybe what I want to say is that you know an ad is fiction. The goodness of a product will be inflated, and you expect this. You understand that the "most insane savings ever" are probably merely pretty good savings and that allergy drugs do not imbue you with the ability to fly, nor does Coke bring joy to your heart and peace to the world.

But, the more subtle an ad becomes, like with product placement, you're not as prepared. You don't necessarily think that maybe that actor hates Coke, but is being paid to drink it. The image just goes into your "unguarded" mind. Now, when you alter the reality of a virtual world, that's another level. Here, it's pretty blatant, but, like my example, you could hide your alterations pretty easily and slowly, subtly, and powerfully alter people's perceptions of the real world.

Not that you'll convince (sane) people they can fly, but you can swing votes, hide problems, invent problems, etc. Powerful companies that are hooked in would become more powerful, etc.

I don't think this is the end of the world anymore than anything else, but it is something that people should be aware of, and be on guard for.

Re:Interesting Idea

[zanerock]

Dude, you misquotted me! Be careful where you put those tags.

Not that anyone cares, but I'm more or less Libretarian... but then I don't think any amount of manipulations in SimWorld would help me out...

Re:Interesting Idea

[teamhasnoi]

Or if you elected a Republican, the virtual world would get in SimWW3, you would be SimDrafted and SimKilled. SimWheee!

Re:Interesting Idea

[DroppedPacket]

How about Sim Lesbian Black Widows?

Re:Interesting Idea

[Elwood P Dowd]

teamhasnoi... picking fights again?

It's the SimFish Anthem!

Re:Interesting Idea

[teamhasnoi]

You have caught me red handed ;)

Is it still a troll when I know it is and respond anyway? hehee

Re:Interesting Idea

[Belgand]

I agree... GTA is highly disturbing. After beating a few random pedestrians to death with my bare hands outside the police station after being released and then dispatching some cops in the same manner I'm not able to pop open their skulls and eat their brains like a zombie. What's the point if games refuse to allow me to engage in the virtual cannibalism of my preference?

Re:Interesting Idea

[zanerock]

I don't like the mortal combat series all that much. Mostly, I prefer the SNK stuff, with the little cartoonish sprites.

Re:Interesting Idea

[Blue Stone]

I see the perfect solution: have McDonald's outlets in The Sims, AND let us have Sims that crazily run into them, and open up their Uzi on the diners before firebombing the place. >8oD

That's the only way I'd ever buy a McCraphead's sponsored "product."

Re:Interesting Idea

[Erik Hollensbe]

You mean like the current economy?

Re:Interesting Idea

[badzilla]

One of my kids brought home a learn-to-read book showing a pictorial story of a family trip to McDonalds and what a great time they all had. Seriously! This wasn't some advertising flyer that McDonalds somehow sponsored the school to hand out, it was a regular National Curriculum schoolbook. How the hell did they do that.

Re:Interesting Idea

[Niddix]

Or what if you were to make a very popular television show that portrayed the Democratic party as the answer to the worlds problems and all Repulicans as crazied lunatics.

Uhm...

[Jennifer Ever]

Don't buy the fucking game?

Re:Uhm...

[tomstdenis]

Whoa slow down. Common sense? Where did you find that?

Hehehehe

I bet it didn't occur to any of the /. crowd todo just that.

Tom

Re:Uhm...

[grub]

WARNING: Your comment "Don't buy the fucking game?" brings common sense into a slashdot discussion. Common sense on slashdot goes against several RFCs.Your karma will be appropriately decimated.

Thank you,

The Editors

Re:Uhm...

[joebagodonuts]

Right on! Sometimes a simple solution is best. The protest that business listens to is made with your checkbook. Money talks, bullshit walks.

Re:Uhm...

[unicron]

I think the better solution would be to just not give a shit. If you like the game, you can overlook this. I pity the fuckers that think this is the cause for them, like it's some travesty against their fellow man. Choose your battles, indeed.

Re:Uhm...

[Xaoswolf]

Exactly, once you buy the game buy the game, EA gets the money, and the McDonalds "ad" gets air time, making it a good investment, even if people make their sims puke after eating there. Remember, no publicity is bad publicity.

However, if the ad gets no airtime, due to the fact that nobody buys the game, then EA gets no money, and McDonalds made a bad investment, insuring that they won't do it again, since, obviously, it doesn't work.

Re:Uhm...

[GunFodder]

Thanks for stealing my comment! How am I going to be funny now?

Re:Uhm...

[startled]

If you played Everquest, you'd be well aware that half the fun of playing a persistent online game is paying them money while simultaneously complaining about how bad it is.

In fact, some people buy second or third accounts for the sole purpose of being able to say "I'm going to cancel any day now, watch out!" twice or three times as often.

Watch for upcoming world-shattering Sims Online events, such as the mass threatened cancellation following the first anchovie pizza nerf, or the mass threatened pizza making work slowdown when a customer service rep says something that isn't very nice.

Re:Uhm...

[avante]

I don't know, the protest seems more like fun, in some odd way.

Re:Uhm...

[AyeRoxor!]

"Cult: (n) a small, unpopular religion.
Religion: (n) a large, popular cult."

So religion is a large, popular small unpopular large, popular small unpopular large, popular small unpopular large, popular small unpopular large, popular small unpopular large, popular small unpopular...

Circular loop. You fail. No- hold on, it's actually contradicting as well. You get a negative 3.

Re:Uhm...

[EditorType]

Kickass! There is another moderate on Slashdot... 4 years of reading without posting pays off.

Re:Uhm...

[martyn s]

This one is less cetchy.

Re:Uhm...

[Cruciform]

Sure it's flamebait...
If you fit into any of the people who consider the latter cases to be more important than the former.

Drop the soldering iron and mod this guy up.

Re:Uhm...

[sonarniche]

No, there is a point to protesting in-game.

The point is that for people who enjoy games and especially MMORPGs, we should not let a slippery slope begin where every game is chock full of corporate sponsors. No one wants to have to pay to be advertised to, nor should they. People play to have fun and to be creative, and corporate sponsorship merely detracts from the asthetics of the game and cheapens the experience.

If people just don't buy the game the practice will continue and spread. Soon enough every game you play will have you making use of commercial products as a part of game play. And the worst part about it is that the company is still charging you $50 (or $30 maybe in the case of the Sims, plus monthly fee) for the game and is getting cash for product placements. This sort of advertising-as-content is much more insipid than tv ads (which pay for the programming) or even movie previews. If people nip it in the bud by making noise about it in-game, companies will realize that it's not something their users want.

Also, I hope they protest the Intel branding too. What if you want to use a Mac!?!

Re:Uhm...

[TamMan2000]

I agree that there is certainly a diference in the level of importance in your two groupings, but that doesn't mean that the second group is not worthy.
While I don't activly fight for the stuff in the later group, I am really glad that there are people who do.
If people didn't care about the latter group, the only people who had enough money to donate money to help the former group would be executives of corporate giants.
The later group is really about not allowing the little guy to be reduced to the status of corporate america's bitch.

Re:Uhm...

[mmol_6453]

His point was that they equate to the same thing, no matter which way you look at it.

Re:Uhm...

[Prong]

Gee, it's awful nice of you to dictate to the /. community what causes are actually worthy. Saves us all the time that we'd spend making choices based on our own beliefs and needs. Maybe you'd like to help with our voting next time around? Wait, I need to go to the grocery this week. Surely you can provide me with a list of items that I need or want.

With all due respect (very little at the moment), I suggest it's you with your head up your ass.

Re:Uhm...

[travdaddy]

I think the better solution would be to just not give a shit. If you like the game, you can overlook this. I pity the fuckers that think this is the cause for them, like it's some travesty against their fellow man. Choose your battles, indeed.

Agreed. Really, what's the big deal? What I'm understanding is that we're worried that Sims eating McDonald's hamburgers are going to influence people to eat McDonald's hamburgers... so what? It's an advertisement! And it will no more influence people than Doom III will influence people to go out and shoot people. And I know Slashdot wouldn't have an article in favor of "Organizing Doom Protests." In fact, most of us Slashdotters are extremely opposed to it. So, feel free to buy the game despite the advertisements... I actually wouldn't mind seeing a Coke that heals you in one of those vending machines in a first-person shooter instead of "Generic Cola."

Re:Uhm...

[duren686]

Drop the soldering iron and mod this guy up.

Thankfully I don't have personal experience, but common sense tells me this isn't a very good idea.

Re:Uhm...

[Malcontent]

Oh only if the world was entirely black and white alas it's not so.

Sometimes the issues are more deep.

For one many people have a silly notion that if you bought things then you ought to be able to treat them like private property. This notion of private property is critical, in a larger context it in fact determines if people will starve or if evil violent tyranism will take root. Fighting to mod your tivo is fighting for your right to own private property and then to use, abuse, sell or trash your private property as you see fit.

Secondly the ability to communicate and to pass information from one generation ot next is what separates human beings from the animals. This one ability (along with the opposible thumb) took us as a species from the caves to the skyscrapers. All of a sudden the ability to transmit information is under attack from some of the most powerful people on this planet. If you don't think digital consumer rights are not important then you really need to get your head out of your ass. In the future all human communication will be done digitally. Let the govt or a handfull of corporations control that and you are done for.

These fight are not new nor are they unique. People fought for years to own private property and to be able to say what they want, when they want, and where they want. We had a revolution about it a few hundred years ago. Now there is a concentrated effort to take those rights away from us and the fight to stop them is one of the most important fights we will ever fight.

Re:Uhm...

[cmaroney]

If you read the article, it's not McDonalds per se, or anything.....the thing the author wants to protest is advertising in games. He feels that the game experience is cheapened by the introduction of product placement and other advertisements. It makes money for EA or whoever, and it doesn't make the game any cheaper to buy, but it makes it less fun to play, at least, in the author's opinion. I tend to agree. Eating at McD's makes your "Fun" score go up? they fucking wish.

The potential for abuse from advertisers is strong....since we interact with these games in a way we don't with a tv, magazine, or movie, they have the opportunity to "force" players of the game to play-enjoy their products in all sorts of ways....oh sure, we don't have to buy the game. So you're going to give up games because of ads? Really? Or are you just gonna put up with it? Heaven forbid you protest a little and maybe put the nix on an ugly trend at its inception.....

Re:Uhm...

[Cruciform]

oh geez, i'm glad i wasn't taking a drink when I read that :) I already sprayed my monitor once this week.

Re:Uhm...

[BurKaZoiD]

Heaven forbid you protest a little and maybe put the nix on an ugly trend at its inception.....

Never gonna happen

Re:Uhm...

[ivan_13013]

Those are all valuable causes. All six of them.

A lot of people don't fully understand the implications of removing the natural freedoms we have fought for in the USA. Now, laws are being passed to prevent or control all sorts of communications. The bought-and-paid-for politicians seem convinced that "digital" communication is somehow undeserving of the same protections as other types of communication. This is a lie, one that is eroding our freedom of speech slowly and quietly in the "Information Age."

It is important to save the lives of children, to fight against oppression (but how do you tell when it's "evil"?) and to voluntarily help your communities.

It's also important to protect our intellectual freedoms, or one day we might wake up to a world where our complacency has put oppressors in power, and for lack of freedom to communicate ideas, we are subsequently prevented from rallying others to the cause of regaining our ability to speak out against oppression. It's a dangerous proposition, the beginning of a road to oppression, if we start to compromise our 1st amendment rights because someone says they don't apply to digital media.

Nonetheless, virtually protesting McDonalds in simville is hopelessly stupid -- unless you have fun doing it, and then you go out into the world with a smile on your face and the will to actually do something worthwhile.

-=Ivan

Re:Uhm...

[koh-der]

if nobody plays, then we won't have interesting articles for /. (e.g. some guy playing for 86hrs and collapsing in the washroom). then what we gonna talk about?

Re:Uhm...

[Dr. Awktagon]

Ahh, well you see "not buying the game" actually violates the license agreement. You agreed to this license contract by "referring to the game in a sentence, reading an article about the game, or thinking about playing the game" (paragraph 2). None of those things would be possible without the hard work of the game writers.

Also, watch your language. You're not allowed to disparage the product (paragraph 23).

Note also the survivability clause (paragraph 37), which stipulates that "even after termination [of this license], all terms and conditions ... remain in full effect."

Thank you for your cooperation,

LawyerDrone

PS: Every legal paper served by our firm will include a voucher for a FREE McDonalds(tm) cheeseburger. Time is running out, so get sued today!

Re:Uhm...

[Promachus]

Nah, it's not circular; it's recursive.

Re:Uhm...

[mgblst]

Apathy: the solution to all the worlds little problems, like over-population, greenhouse gases...

Re:Uhm...

[Inthewire]

Secondly the ability to communicate and to pass information from one generation ot next is what separates human beings from the animals.

Look up planarians someday. Then apologize for your utter ignorance. This is like a court of law - get one statement wrong and everything else becomes suspect.

Moron.

Re:Uhm...

[teamhasnoi]

Wow. You are a freak, a friend of a friend, and a foe of a friend! Congratulations, you have the most pills of anyone!

So why did you foe me? Just curious.

Re:Uhm...

[avante]

-- 2. Fighting evil, violent oppressors

I do that one.

-- 1. Your right to burn CD's at will
-- 2. Your right to mod a Tivo
-- 3. Your right to download software of
any type you desire.
In my field, those three end up sometimes being closely related to the first one.

• The first one because information needs to be replicated. People need to be able to make back-ups of their media (for example a copy of commercial software that they depend on) in case the police/paramilitaries come and raid their building and steal it all.
• The second one because they need to be able to modify and fix old, old hardware that nobody supports anymore. Or because they need to make modifications for their own personal use. Or they need to be able to open a machine and verify that it has not been tampered with. The erosion caused by anti-tampering laws create additional legal hurdles that can be used as an excuse to arrest/torture, etc.
• The third is related to the right to download what ever the user wants without being spied on by the local authorities. It's obvious that you are referring to piracy, but restrictions on what people download could adversly affect people in restrictive countries. The more these rights are encroached, the harder it will become to get access to anonymous information and free software that can help people under the regime of evil, violent oppressors.

These are all related to digital consumer rights, which as the human rights community becomes more and more dependent on technology to work, becomes more and more important to human rights as a whole.

Re:Uhm...

[Malcontent]

Ah take a quote out of context, spew a non sequitor, make an idiotic analogy. The essense of slashdot troll behaviour.

Sell out with me oh yeah

[pwarf]

I for one, am willing to have a little bit of product placement in my video games to defray the cost. It's better than pop-up ads. Anyway, of course eating McDonalds is going to increase your stats. Anything that bad for you has to taste good, right?

Re:Sell out with me oh yeah

[Xaoswolf]

Exactly, this isn't the Yo Noids game, it's the SIMS, and all they did was add a McDonalds where you can buy food. It's not like all the characters were changed to either Grimmace, Ronald, or a fry guy. It's still the same game, the mcdonalds doesn't detract from the ability to play a normal person. In fact, normal people eat at McDonalds, so I don't see what the problem is.

Re:Sell out with me oh yeah

[futuresheep]

It won't defray the cost of the game though. You'll pay $49.95 for the game at Electronics Boutique, and then the standard recurring monthly fee to play the game. Just like ticket prices for movies don't change according to product placement in the film, there's no defrayal of cost here either.

Re:Sell out with me oh yeah

[Jaysyn]

I don't think The Sims has recurring costs...

Jaysyn

Re:Sell out with me oh yeah

[foxtrot]

I for one, am willing to have a little bit of product placement in my video games to defray the cost.

That, you see, is the real problem.

People aren't pissed off that McD's is unhealthy or whatever else. They're pissed off that Maxis is getting money from Big Mac and putting product placement ads in the game, but it's not reducing the price of their game.

People like to talk up a good cause, but let's face it: they're pissed because they're not getting a cut.

-JDF

Re:Sell out with me oh yeah

[perlyking]

You really think it will make them cheaper? Lol. You are paying for someone else to advertise to you.

Problem Solved.

[cioxx]

A simple workaround would be to go "dine" at the particular McDonalds restaurant, spill virtual coffee on player's lap and sue Maxis for damages.

Re:Problem Solved.

[Compulov]

Hahaha... SimCourt(tm), probably be on shelves in a few months.

Re:Problem Solved.

[MrLint]

I dont know, it might me more likely that you are so busy running your virtual fast food empire you forget to eat and sleep and then die misearble and at teh console and your family will sue instead:)

Re:Problem Solved.

[Frymaster]

"funny" indeed. do you even know that facts about that lawsuit?

try reading up on it.

Re:Problem Solved.

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite the whining of the Naderites and the less-than-admirable ethics displayed by McDonalds, the primary cause of the injury was the plantiff's stupidity. IMHO, no matter what some other entity does to "help" an injury, if the "victim" does something idiotic, no compensation should be due.

Common sense tells me that coffee is hot, so I keep it away from my naughty bits, just as I keep gasoline away from the fireplace, or bleach away from my skin. I don't need a "keep accelerants away from the fire!" sign in 2 inch high orange letters on my fireplace to do the smart thing.

There should be no compensation for boneheaded actions.

Re:Problem Solved.

[bay43270]

How is this insightfull??? Go ahead, read the document. It just says she was in a lot of pain and the lawyers at McDonalds still wouldn't admit it was their fault.... because it wasn't. What did she expect? Cold coffee? Did she want someone to say "watch it, the coffee is hot!". Of course it is! Its legal crap like this that makes the world so complicated.

Re:Problem Solved.

[jedidiah]

So? Not all states require the defendant to be more than 50% responsible in tort suits.

Also, McDonald's likes to keep it's coffee hotter than everyone elses. Not "doing it like everyone else" leaves a company open to civil liability if something goes wrong.

Plus, McDonald's actively suppressed information about other people that were getting burned. This alone justifies McDonald's being hit for 7 or 8 figures.

Re:Problem Solved.

[jedidiah]

They actively suppressed information about other similar incidents. That alone is "callous" enough for a judgment LARGER than what the victim was awarded.

Also, you might want to read the "facts" again. McD's liked to keep it's coffee hotter than anyone else. This is no minor detail.

Re:Problem Solved.

[jedidiah]

Then this begs the obvious question of where's the Starbuck's suit? They serve NOTHING BUT coffee. They also appear to be on more corners than even McDonald's. Yet they strangely managed to "dodge" this particular bullet.

They have better cups, they include extra installation, and they don't keep it as hot.

At the very least, McDonald's deserved a PR black eye from the otherwise suppresed supports of people getting severe burns from their coffee.

Why are you twits so quick to completely ignore the suppression of information present in that case?

Re:Problem Solved.

[rock_the_casbah]

//they include extra installation//

So, they'll fdisk each cup they pour for me?

neat.

Re:Problem Solved.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Starbucks suits so far have been settled out of court. Given the damages that some juries hand out, this is definitely a good idea.

Re:Problem Solved.

[mafryler]

Further evidence of the diminishing of the gene pool... Back in the day, stupid incompetent people died and failed to spread their less-than-desirable genes. Today, everyone lives, comfortably surrounded by disclaimers, lawsuits and over-protective laws. Case in point: 1 in 3 million children (OK, I made up the number) die as a result of not wearing a helmet while riding a bicycle. Solution: Pass mandatory helmet laws for children under the age of 16. Problem?: When I was child, the kid who lacked the instinct to catch his fall with his hands and/or knees while falling off a bicycle was probably badly injured or killed. Our natural instincts are being weeded out of the gene pool. How about disclaimers for not placing a sharp knife on my genitals? Watch out Ginsu!

Re:Problem Solved.

[mgblst]

I think the point was that the coffee was way too hot, scalding temperature, when there is no way it should have been. Who would have thought that there was two sides to an issue?

Re:Problem Solved.

[kcbrown]

I think the point was that the coffee was way too hot, scalding temperature, when there is no way it should have been. Who would have thought that there was two sides to an issue?

Yeah, and I'm sure that it was the first time she'd ever bought coffee from McDonald's, so there's no way she could have possibly known about the temperature of the coffee, right?

Not bloody likely.

Re:Problem Solved.

[jedidiah]

How the FUCK is this post redundant?

Where are the FUCKING starbuck's lawsuits if this was just a case of corrupt lawyers and greedy litigants?

Re:Problem Solved.

[jedidiah]

Where are you getting this information from?

The McDonald's settlements were sealed. Although, I suppose that Starbucks could be pully the same thing. Depending on the circumstances, that could be as sleazy as McD's actions.

This is a problem with such settlements. How can you judge if there is an issue? Merely assuming plaintiff stupidity is not sufficient.

Starbucks is certainly in a better position wrt litigation.

So?

[onShore_Jake]

I am outraged that they have found a way to keep themselves profitable without charging more. If we don't all get in our comfortable shoes and make protest signs out of recycled cardboard,then the next thing you know we will start seeing animated banners and huge blocky ads on slashdot!

Re:So?

[Eskarel]

Considering the vast amount of money Maxis has generated through the various sims "Expansion Packs" and the limited effort needed to produce such "Expansion Packs", I'd say it's more accurate to say that they found a way to generate more profit, but that's really neither here nor there.

Personally I think that people should be protesting the example of working conditions in the Sims. I mean what kind of slave driving boss won't let you go to the bathroom or eat one single time during an eight or more hour work day.

Re:So?

[johnkoer]

then the next thing you know we will start seeing animated banners and huge blocky ads on slashdot!

Just playing a little devils advocate here....

In the slashdot situation you can easily ignore the ads, and clicking on those ads has no positive effect on your karma. In the Sims situation they are trying to embed the McDonalds service with the incentives of "Fun" and "Hunger".

Goddamn, if this really bothers you, get a life

[stratjakt]

Seriously.

"Giant megacoroprations are adversely affecting the quality of life for my imaginary computer friends!"

This aint no posterchild for mental health and social skills.

There are enough injustices in the world worthy of protest, we don't need virtual ones.

EA's selling, McD's buying. Get over it.

Re:Goddamn, if this really bothers you, get a life

[Shalome]

No kidding.

If you're gonna be virtually protesting, at least virtually protest something real by quickly and easily emailing your representatives on actual issues that affect real human lives.

If they don't want to see MacDonalds in game

[Captain Pedantic]

Then they shouldn't hang out there. As it is, are these peoples lives so meaningless, that they have to get themselves worked up over a game?

Re:If they don't want to see MacDonalds in game

[kalidasa]

As it is, are these peoples lives so meaningless, that they have to get themselves worked up over a game?

Or even more sadly, are these people's lives so meaningless that in a virtual reality game they can't think of anything more exciting to do than to go to McDonalds? (Or worse yet, that they can't think of anything more exciting to do than to go to McDonalds in a virtual reality game?)

Re:If they don't want to see MacDonalds in game

[carpe_noctem]

You know, the same thing could really be said about all the people that incessantly post comments here on /. hrmmmmmm.

Mayhaps a sign

[sulli]

that certain game players need to get out more?

Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[ekrout]

Hear me out.

So, McDonald's wants people to think their food is tasty and fulfilling. We all know that's not true (especially 60 minutes later when you're in the bathroom trying to get their filth out of your digestive system).

I say we organize anti-ad movements to pay the maker of The Sims to add the following code:

if(character.justAte(McDonalds)) {
wait(60, minutes);
character.CrapBrainsOut();
}

Re:Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[tswinzig]

You have got serious problems if you are shitting out food you just ate one hour before.

Are you, perhaps, lacking a stomach and small intestine?

Re:Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[fliplap]

That, or the poster usually eats healthy. I used to eat a lot of McDonalds, now I find that if I eat there at all it just slides right through me.

Re:Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[tswinzig]

No, sorry, there is NO way you are excreting solid food you ate one hour before!

Re:Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[MsGeek]

I'm lacking a gall bladder (removed 11 years ago due to stones) and find this to happen on a fairly regular basis. Greasy food tends to...uhh...slide on out the back door, if you know what I mean. I have to be very careful of what I eat.

Re:Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[fliplap]

YOU have never eaten at a really cheap really crappy chinese food joint.

Re:Could we pay to reverse the effects?

[tswinzig]

You must be actually ingesting feces in the first place if it's only taking an hour to go through your system. Seriously.

They forgot a couple protests...

[Tebriel]

Virtual women burning their virtual bras....oh...wait...it's a family game.

Maybe letting people die of heart attacks in at the kiosks and haunting them?

Re:They forgot a couple protests...

[LittleGuy]

Virtual women burning their virtual bras....

The Internet: A Thin Line Between Sim and Pr0n.

I understand playing a relaxing game occasionaly

[mhesseltine]

But, if you are this concerned about your SIMS stats, maybe you need to quit watching simulated people with lives and get one yourself.

Disgusting, yet strangely compelling

[s20451]

From the article:

History has shown gamers that online protest can result in positive change, as exemplified in Ultima Online's 1997 naked riot demanding bug fixes and server upgrades.

Not being an Ultima fan, I'm not familiar with the reference. Can anyone enlighten me as to what happened?

Re:Disgusting, yet strangely compelling

[fobbman]

Rioting naked UO players? Please reconsider whether you want to be "enlightened" in this manner.

Re:Disgusting, yet strangely compelling

[mattsucks]

... or maybe the FemSims can start protesting virtual or oh-so-real war ala' this example.

text of the article

[Anonymous Coward]

Big Mac Attacked

By Tony Walsh, Shift.com
November 12, 2002

Remember when movie theatres only showed a few previews before a film? Remember when they added commercials to the mix? Videogames were advertisement-free once, too. Long lusted after as a vehicle for commercial messaging, games have finally joined the ranks of the rest of the entertainment industry.

In the soon-to-be blockbuster The Sims Online, players could find it difficult to avoid getting their fingers soiled on virtual McDonald's hamburgers. A deal struck between Sims publisher Electronic Arts and the fastfood mega-corporation allows Sims players to open up their own McDonald's kiosk and improve their game stats by consuming McD's greasy goodies. While news of this groundbreaking sponsorship deal fades quickly from memory, failure to address this latest barrage in the war on ad-free gaming could result in a super-sized sandwich of misery. Based on the success of previous Sims offerings, The Sims Online is an ideal high-profile backdrop in the war against "advergaming." The McDonald's kiosks that dot the imaginary battlefield are mere burger bunkers to be ad-busted in an anti-advergaming mission that could go down in the annals of gaming history.

The Sims Online website crows, "Let your imagination run wild. Choose your online role and play your way in this unpredictable, infinite, online world." Your online role, should you choose to stand against advertising in games, is that of Revolutionary.

Your motivation is simple. Product placement weakens the overall aesthetic of a game in ways more insidious than movie- or television-based placement -- moving from passive directly to aggressive, from inactive to interactive. It used to be enough for advertisers that we merely observed their product. Now, in an increasing number of games, becoming immersed in a company's brand is integral and inevitable. What benefit do we reap from this immersion? Our gaming experience is cheapened, but game titles are no less expensive. Publishers have already set the price of a computer game two to three times that of a new DVD movie. Will games with integrated advertising be any less expensive than games without? Not bloody likely.

Know this, future rebel: Deeply-integrated marketing is a double-edged sword. Once the strategic sponsorship deal was signed, both parties were locked into a digital dungeon of their own devise. Shakes, fries, and pimply-faced employees are irrevocably etched on to every CD of The Sims Online.

In an online world with no way to address challenges to their brand, we've got McDonald's right where we want them.

The ad-busting revolution needs clever soldiers, able to use their Sims avatar and the entire world of The Sims Online to their advantage. These anti-corporate activists must play within the rules of The Sims Online, but push the boundaries to the breaking point in order to get the attention of fellow citizens and the real world media. It's been reported that eating virtual McDonald's hamburgers will positively affect your "Fun" and "Hunger" game stats. But what if you're a vegetarian? What if you're an eco-activist? What if you think it's more Fun dining at Biff's Family Restaurant? Although the game hasn't hit the stores yet, the free public beta is open. The time to act is now. Log in, Revolutionary, and fight the good fight:

* Picket the nearest McDonald's kiosk. Stand in front of the kiosk and tell visitors why you think McDonald's sucks. Be careful not to use foul language or hinder the movement of your fellow Simians. Polite protest can't result in your account getting suspended... can it?

* Actually order and consume virtual McD's food, then use The Sims Online's "expressive gestures" in creative ways. Lie down and play dead. Emote the vomiting, sickness, or fatigue that might overcome you after eating a real life McNugget.

* Open your own McDonald's kiosk. Verbally abuse all customers in the name of McDonald's. Loudly proclaim how terrible your food is and how it's made from substandard ingredients (or whatever you think will turn people off). Make sure you preface each such statement with "In my opinion," to avoid libel charges.

* Open an independent restaurant. Gain the confidence of your clientele, and then let them know your business is being hurt by ubiquitous McDonald's kiosks. Ask them to put pressure on other Simians to support small business people instead of cogs in a gigantic franchise-machine.

History has shown gamers that online protest can result in positive change, as exemplified in Ultima Online's 1997 naked riot demanding bug fixes and server upgrades. Not only were some of the rioters' issues addressed by the game publisher following the incident, but the event was widely reported, and gamers worldwide have been inspired to acts of virtual civil disobedience ever since. Remember that your worst enemy, aside from integrated branding, is inaction. Electronic Arts clearly wants players of The Sims Online to be wildly imaginative, and has already recognized that the online world is unpredictable.

With EA touting such egalitarian rhetoric, it follows to reason that freedom of speech is as alive in The Sims Online as it is in the real world. Test this theory by standing up and shouting for what you believe in, my Revolutionaries! If the thought of being force-fed Big Macs makes you sick, you'd better start giving this advertising model a serious case of indigestion.

Home Top Stories

Big Mac Attacked

By Tony Walsh, Shift.com
November 12, 2002

Remember when movie theatres only showed a few previews before a film? Remember when they added commercials to the mix? Videogames were advertisement-free once, too. Long lusted after as a vehicle for commercial messaging, games have finally joined the ranks of the rest of the entertainment industry.

In the soon-to-be blockbuster The Sims Online, players could find it difficult to avoid getting their fingers soiled on virtual McDonald's hamburgers. A deal struck between Sims publisher Electronic Arts and the fastfood mega-corporation allows Sims players to open up their own McDonald's kiosk and improve their game stats by consuming McD's greasy goodies. While news of this groundbreaking sponsorship deal fades quickly from memory, failure to address this latest barrage in the war on ad-free gaming could result in a super-sized sandwich of misery. Based on the success of previous Sims offerings, The Sims Online is an ideal high-profile backdrop in the war against "advergaming." The McDonald's kiosks that dot the imaginary battlefield are mere burger bunkers to be ad-busted in an anti-advergaming mission that could go down in the annals of gaming history.

The Sims Online website crows, "Let your imagination run wild. Choose your online role and play your way in this unpredictable, infinite, online world." Your online role, should you choose to stand against advertising in games, is that of Revolutionary.

Your motivation is simple. Product placement weakens the overall aesthetic of a game in ways more insidious than movie- or television-based placement -- moving from passive directly to aggressive, from inactive to interactive. It used to be enough for advertisers that we merely observed their product. Now, in an increasing number of games, becoming immersed in a company's brand is integral and inevitable. What benefit do we reap from this immersion? Our gaming experience is cheapened, but game titles are no less expensive. Publishers have already set the price of a computer game two to three times that of a new DVD movie. Will games with integrated advertising be any less expensive than games without? Not bloody likely.

Know this, future rebel: Deeply-integrated marketing is a double-edged sword. Once the strategic sponsorship deal was signed, both parties were locked into a digital dungeon of their own devise. Shakes, fries, and pimply-faced employees are irrevocably etched on to every CD of The Sims Online.

In an online world with no way to address challenges to their brand, we've got McDonald's right where we want them.

The ad-busting revolution needs clever soldiers, able to use their Sims avatar and the entire world of The Sims Online to their advantage. These anti-corporate activists must play within the rules of The Sims Online, but push the boundaries to the breaking point in order to get the attention of fellow citizens and the real world media. It's been reported that eating virtual McDonald's hamburgers will positively affect your "Fun" and "Hunger" game stats. But what if you're a vegetarian? What if you're an eco-activist? What if you think it's more Fun dining at Biff's Family Restaurant? Although the game hasn't hit the stores yet, the free public beta is open. The time to act is now. Log in, Revolutionary, and fight the good fight:

* Picket the nearest McDonald's kiosk. Stand in front of the kiosk and tell visitors why you think McDonald's sucks. Be careful not to use foul language or hinder the movement of your fellow Simians. Polite protest can't result in your account getting suspended... can it?

* Actually order and consume virtual McD's food, then use The Sims Online's "expressive gestures" in creative ways. Lie down and play dead. Emote the vomiting, sickness, or fatigue that might overcome you after eating a real life McNugget.

* Open your own McDonald's kiosk. Verbally abuse all customers in the name of McDonald's. Loudly proclaim how terrible your food is and how it's made from substandard ingredients (or whatever you think will turn people off). Make sure you preface each such statement with "In my opinion," to avoid libel charges.

* Open an independent restaurant. Gain the confidence of your clientele, and then let them know your business is being hurt by ubiquitous McDonald's kiosks. Ask them to put pressure on other Simians to support small business people instead of cogs in a gigantic franchise-machine.

History has shown gamers that online protest can result in positive change, as exemplified in Ultima Online's 1997 naked riot demanding bug fixes and server upgrades. Not only were some of the rioters' issues addressed by the game publisher following the incident, but the event was widely reported, and gamers worldwide have been inspired to acts of virtual civil disobedience ever since. Remember that your worst enemy, aside from integrated branding, is inaction. Electronic Arts clearly wants players of The Sims Online to be wildly imaginative, and has already recognized that the online world is unpredictable.

With EA touting such egalitarian rhetoric, it follows to reason that freedom of speech is as alive in The Sims Online as it is in the real world. Test this theory by standing up and shouting for what you believe in, my Revolutionaries! If the thought of being force-fed Big Macs makes you sick, you'd better start giving this advertising model a serious case of indigestion.

Tony Walsh (ratboy@secretlair.]com) resides in his secret lair (http://www.secretlair.com).

What's next?

[greechneb]

Having your sim eat at mcdonalds, get fat, and sue? Have your sim live comfortably of mcdonalds for life? Or maybe a new career choice, professional plaintiff?

i wonder...

[mschoolbus]

if they will have workers who speak english...

Alright!

[UncleOzzy]

Just what we need - SimHippies stinking of SimPatchouli with hygeine meters redder than a baboon's ass sitting around in a SimDrumCircle outside SimMcDonald's because it's SimEvil. Please. Get me some SimTearGas and a SimTaser and I'll have them working the SimFry-o-Lator by SimTomorrowMorning.

Anyway, there are two problems with The Sims Online, given experience with the current play test: you can't fucking connect; and, when you can connect, it's boring as hell.

Re:Alright!

[p_rotator]

Ozzy!! Is that you??? How's Sharon?

Re:Alright!

[JasonUCF]

Laughing my ass off. Well done. A KARMA BOUQET FOR JOO!

I am full of rage

[Hamstaus]

This then tells how to vent any rage that such may conjure.

Vent?! VENT?! How am I supposed to vent when I can't even GET TO THE ARTICLE?!

Arrrrghahjhbasjbdbajssdajbjjjararrrghagrhgrhgh!!

hmm... all that rage made me hungry. I could sure go for a cheesebur... uh... I mean... ARRRRARGAHRHGRRHGHGGGA!

3 Words

[serutan]

It's.
A.
Game.

I agree 100% that this type of product placement is a sad sign. But it's EA's game, and if they want to ruin it by giving points for hitting yourself on the head with a duck, well, either get a duck or spend your gaming budget somewhere else.

Re:3 Words

[Pike65]

I agree 100% that this type of product placement is a sad sign

I used to. Then I played Syndicate Wars (with it's Ghost in the Shell video and Manga billboards) and I wasn't so sure.

Still, that was fairly unobtrusive and not quite to blatantly profit-motivated. McDonald's good for you? Yeah, and I suppose sitting in front of a computer all . . .

Ah. Whoops.

Re:3 Words

[JordoCrouse]

But it's EA's game, and if they want to ruin it by giving points for hitting yourself on the head with a duck, well, either get a duck or spend your gaming budget somewhere else.

Well worded. I hope you don't mind if I add that line to my regular rotation of quotes I didn't invent.

Thanks for the common sense.

Re:3 Words

[Guppy06]

"and if they want to ruin it by giving points for hitting yourself on the head with a duck, well, either get a duck or spend your gaming budget somewhere else."

I Can't Believe You Said That.

That, or I could make a Wizards & Warriors reference, but that would be a little too obscure...

Re:3 Words

[ameoba]

You've obviously never talked to any Sims/MMORPG junkies, have you?

Why McDonalds?

[91degrees]

McDonalds provides most of the few jobs that people without any qualifications at all can do legally. They provide employment in poorer countries, and provide food to the hungry.

A large portion of their profits goes to charities every year. They are a true symbol of the determinism and individuality of free America.

Anyone who wants to protest them is at the very least a fool. Most of them are simpyl jealous of the success of the company. A patriot has no need to feel bad about a fellow Americans success. This jealousy is the reason the USSR hated the west.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[ProppaT]

Actually, there's plenty of reasons to protest them. While they're good for the American economy, they're bad for the global good. Why? They buy their beef from 3rd world nations.

At first you would think "You idiot, it just helps the economy of third world nations." Actually, it does the opposite. The profit is so good for the land owners in these South American countries that they've converted their crops (crops that sustained the country) into cattle fields. So, while the land owners get wealthier, the poor that don't farm get poorer by having to buy imported produce...or pay inflated prices for domestic produce. In addition, rain forests are being chopped down in South America to be converted to cattle farm space.

I eat at McDonalds every once in a while and enjoy it, don't get me wrong. But whoever says that people who do protest McDonalds have no basis for doing so are fooling themselves.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[RocketJeff]

Actually, there's plenty of reasons to protest them. While they're good for the American economy, they're bad for the global good. Why? They buy their beef from 3rd world nations.

Actually, look at where they purchase beef. Most of the beef served in their US stores is bought from US suppliers (and the rest is mainly bought from Australia because they can't find enough US beef that has enough fat to stay together during cooking).This is the same for most of their products & countries - they buy the products locally.

Why? Two reasons, Good PR and it usually costs less then importing them (remember, most raw food products are cheap enough that shipping would be a large percent of the costs). Also, don't forget the hassle involved with shipping food products across most national borders (or even into California).

I worked at McD's corporate HQ for several years and knew some of the purchasing people. Cost was actually the main reason, but McD is also keenly aware of their PR.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DrFrob]

You should read Fast Food Nation. As the title suggests, it talks all about the fast food industry. One of the most convincing arguments I found about not eating at McDonald's were the way the cows were slaughtered. Over 80% of ground beef has tested positive for fecal matter (which can lead to disease). People who work in slaughterhouses have probably the shittiest jobs around. To keep production up, the slaughter lines are sped through so fast that even experienced people often cut themselves, or can't remove the intestines very fast without spilling shit (and thus contributing to the shit in the ground beef). Anyway, I can't describe it in as much gory detail as the book. So if you're interested, read it.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DrFrob]

Don't beleive everything you think.

The book had sources for its statistics.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[Peyna]

Funny, because I recall a news story that McDonald's new "All American Burger" contained considerable amount of foreign beef, mostly from New Zealand and Australias. more info.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[ageitgey]

1 - The article you linked says that McDonalds is testing imports of as much as 1% of its beef from down under. That's hardly a "considerable amount of foreign beef".

2 - The parent article claimed that McDonalds bought from the US except for a small amount from Australia. Your argumentative reply linked facts that exactly confirmed what he said.

So.. uh.. try again.

The "rumor emails" at the bottom of the link don't count - they are just made up chain letters. If you believe those, then you must also be waiting for your check from Bill Gates for forwarding those other chain letters that promised to give you money from him.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DrFrob]

Are you trying to convince me that shit doesn't carry disease? Because you'd lose. That's all I'm saying. I know that plants are grown in shit (well, mostly after it's been chemically converted into shit that isn't shit anymore), but bacteria proliferate much faster in meat that in veggies (simple experiment: leave an apple and a quarter-pound of ground beef on your kitchen counter and tell me which one you'd eat a week later). It's not the shit that bothers me, it's the bacteria.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[gorilla]

1 - The article you linked says that McDonalds is testing imports of as much as 1%of its beef from down under. That's hardly a "considerable amount of foreign beef".

I'd disagree that your conclusion is warnted on that evidence. If McDonalds imported 75% of it's beef from Argentina, and 1% from down under, then it's true that considerable amount of foreign beef is imported. I belive that the facts are that different McDonalds around the world have different primary sources, for example Japanese McDonalds do use primarily Australian beef, while the US is primarily American beef.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[benzapp]

Fast Food Nation has some interesting points, but most of it is tainted with typical leftist vitriol. It was almost HILLARIOUS how often that book portrayed the Republican Party as the source of this evil crisis of fast food hell.

It was really sad because the book makes valid points, but this tired old theme that democrats have used for fifty years, that they are protecting us poor slobs from the evil republicans is just stupid. Outside of old folks from the Depression era and stupid kids brainwashed by their teachers, no one buys that democrat rhetoric anymore.

The book also doesn't mention AT ALL about how addictive opiod-peptides(wheat glutan) and beta-carbolides are added to foods, and how this is the #1 reason for over eating and most importantly asthma. There is an entire industry of creating substances that cause an addictive craving but only cause minor mood altering effects. Thus, while adding pure morphine to foods would definitely make them addictive, adding opiod peptides that are barely euphoric means no one will really notice. They just write off the constipation and asthma to some other bullshit.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DaytonCIM]

First, it's Opioid Peptides and Wheat Gluten.

Second, (as hard as this is for me to admit, I must) you are correct in your point about the harmful affects of Opioid Peptides.

From a University of Sunderland study:
We subscribe to the opioid excess theory for the causation of autism. The theory has been expounded on a number of occasions (Shattock et al, 1990; Shattock & Lowdon, 1991). In brief, we suspect that peptides with opioid (morphine-like) activity, resulting from the incomplete digestion of certain foods, in particular gluten from wheat and certain other cereals and from casein from milk and dairy produce, find their way into the bloodstream from the lumen of the intestine. Once in the bloodstream a proportion will cross into the brain. They will either act directly as neuroregulators by mimicking the bodies own natural opioids (such as the enkephalins or endorphins) or act as ligands to the enzymes which would break down these naturally occurring compounds. In either case, the consequence is an increase in opioid activity.

Not sure where you get the asthma connection, but an overabundance of Opioid Peptides in one's diet certainly leads to a myriad of health issues, including autism, adult diabetes, various cancers, and heart disease.

As far as your assertion that the book is biased against the "Republican Party," I am beginning to think you're just flat-out paranoid.

Out.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[JimmytheGeek]

Well, look at which party is in favor of regulating the food industry in the interest of consumer safety. That would be the Democrats. The Republicans have consistently rolled back regulations and defunded the relevant agencies. Clinton defended the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts from Republican assaults, assaults which W is preparing to renew. Remember, W instituted a voluntary emissions reduction program for power plants in Texas, which pretty much said, "Pollute all you want." And they did. He is also pushing a voluntary embezzlement reduction program for officers of publicly held companies. Republicans passed a tax cut (with gutless Democrat complicity) whose benefits are wildly titled toward the rich. Workplace safety - Republicans favor employers over employees. The House Republican leader just stuck an exemption for Eli Lilly for lawsuits related to vaccines into the latest constitution-shredding security bill. That serves nobody's interests except Eli Lilly.

The problem with the democrat rhetoric is that it is true.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[ageitgey]

True, but he context of the conversation was American (US) McDonalds, and foreign mean "non-american". I wasn't claiming anything about non-american restaurants. (And appologies to non-US americans :)

Re:Why McDonalds?

[ageitgey]

You are mixing up US and non-US stores. I was referring only to US stores. Your 14 billion number is a worldwide number. And even if it wasn't, 25 million pounds isn't a "considerable" part of 14 billion.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[geekee]

"The House Republican leader just stuck an exemption for Eli Lilly for lawsuits related to vaccines into the latest constitution-shredding security bill. That serves nobody's interests except Eli Lilly."

Eli Lilly produces vaccines that can be used in the event of a bio-attack. It is relevent to national security.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[benzapp]

Thanks for the spelling corrections, fuckwad. As is typical of those who have little to offer, bullshit is the method of choice for argument. Have you ever even read the book you ignorant tool? I didn't think so. You just think I am making up this bullshit about republicans? Why don't you don't you read the book.

Also, thanks for posting some rather pointless quotes, certaintly nothing from a respectable medical journal. For those who might read something from this twit, I will post a couple of journal citations from the National Library of Medicine University of Sunderland. You are a goddamn british fuck, and you are commenting to me about politics?

As a side note, wheat opioid peptides are called opioid peptides because they bind to the same opioid receptors in the brain as all naturally occuring opiates, such as morphine. Any simple medical guide, including a nurse's pharmaceutical reference will make it quite clear that opioids ultimately kill you by suppressing your respiratory system to the point of failure. Note, thats what happens when someone dies of asthma (duhhh!). If you read the Merck Manul, a common medical reference, you will find one of the chief side effects of long term narcotic pain management is respiratory suppression manifested as asthma. But seriously, how the fuck can you claim to know anything about this subject when you didn't even know this. Seriously, why the fuck do you think so many plants have opioid peptides in them, to get us high? They kill things, especially bugs. Hey, since your british, why don't you drink down a couple bottles of codeine cough syrup and tell me how you feel. I don't think you will be breathing too well.

(1) Fukudome, S. et al, Release of opioid peptides, gluten exorphins by the action of pancreatic elastase. FEBS Lett. 1997 / 412 (3) / 475-479.

(2) Fukudome, S. et al, Gluten exorphin C : a novel opioid peptide derived from wheat gluten. FEBS Lett. 1993 / 316 (1) / 17-19.

(3) Max ,B., This and that : an artefactual alkaloid and its peptide analogs. Trends Pharmacol. Sci. 1992 / 13 (9) / 341-345.

(4) Fukodome, S. et al, Opioid peptides derived from wheat gluten : their isolation and characterization. FEBS lett. 1992 / 296 (1) / 107-111.

(5) Dohan, F.C. ,Genetics and idiopathic schizophrenia. Am. J. Psychiatry 1989 / 146 (11) / 1522-1523. , Dohan, F.C. ,Genetic hypothesis of idiopathic schizophrenia : its exorphin connection. Schizophr. Bull. 1988 / 14 (4) / 489-494. , Paroli, E. et al, Opioid peptides from food (the exorphins). World Rev. Nutr. Diet. 1988 / 55 / 58-97. , Morley, J.E., Food peptides. A new class of hormones ? J. Am. Med. Assoc. 1982 / 247 (17) / 2379-2380 , Ross-Smith, P. et al, Diet (gluten) and Schizophrenia. J. Hum. Nutr. 1980 / 34 (2) / 107-112.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DaytonCIM]

Wow. Someone definitely needs to limit their caffeine/sugar intake. A little fired-up about nothing, eh?

Not sure why you found it necessary to regurgitate your same point about the direct relationship between Opioid Peptides and asthma, when I never disagreed with you. In fact, I agreed with you, dummy. From original post:
you are correct in your point about the harmful affects of Opioid Peptides.

I continued by adding a couple more harmful side affects, like autism, adult diabetes, various cancers, and heart disease.

So, I'm not sure why you're blasting me. I know I have blasted your ridiculous ranting in the past; so maybe this is your way of "telling me off." But, please remember: This time, I agreed with you.

As far as your comments in relation to Fast Food Nation railing Republicans... well, I think it's simply more evidence suggesting that you're paranoid and delusional.

I have read the book, you twit. And it does not single-out Republicans. Maybe in your a skewed view of reality everything and everyone rants against Republicans, but here in the real world not everything revolves around Republicans and the evil Democrats.

I invite you to post a quote from Fast Food Nation supporting your point.

Have a nice day.

Out

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DaytonCIM]

Eli Lilly produces vaccines that can be used in the event of a bio-attack. It is relevent to national security.

Ok. That may be true. However, is Eli Lilly charging for vaccines? Or are they donating them of their own free, kind heart?

If they are charging for the vaccines, why in the world should they receive an exemption? Not that any "exemption" a politician sticks in a bill is legal and will stand the test of the court, but... why do it?

Re:Why McDonalds?

[benzapp]

Ridiculous ranting eh? You haven't seen anything yet you sanctimonious prick. The fun has just begun. Feel free to correct my spelling whenever your little heart desires.

"have a nice day"

PS: opium, heroin, morphine, glutomorphine from wheat, none of it causes heart disease or cancer. I think you need to read a little more about medicine. I mean, wouldn't want you to be too freaked out about the shit you eat.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[benzapp]

Very simple.

Many, many companies have been driven into the ground by lawsuits. The merit of those civil actions is irrelevant. The simple fact is we, as a people need those vaccines. Somebody has to pay for it. In order to make it profitable for these vaccines to be made, it is necessary to eliminate the risk of loss due to civil damages.

This is also the argument for limiting awards against doctors. We need doctors. The problem is in many localities doctors cannot afford to purchase liability insurances. Rather than risk losing everything they own, they simply don't practice there. The end result is predictable: certain localities lack doctors who specialize in high risk procedures.

In many ways, it is one small step towards universal tort reform. I am quite certain most Republicans would prefer to cap all civil actions.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DaytonCIM]

The merit of those civil actions is irrelevant.
I disagree. The merit of a civil case is completely relevant. I agree that the number of frivolous lawsuits today is outrageous and we need Tort Reform badly. Maybe we could adopt a similar system as they have in England: if you lose a civil case you are responsible for all fees and costs involved.

Re:Why McDonalds?

[benzapp]

Props to DaytonCIM. I like the suggestion we force the losing party to pay for all court costs.

Of course, what happens when a poor person sues a megacorporation...

Re:Why McDonalds?

[DaytonCIM]

See we can agree every now and then...

Of course, what happens when a poor person sues a megacorporation...

The "poor person" had better have a good case and a good attorney.

I started to think maybe having the losing party pay for court costs would be a bit Draconian, but then I read this story. If you want to read the complaint, click here. Again I am resolved that the we need to reform Tort Law as soon as possible.

Easy Enough

[daeley]

Just build a swimming pool around your local McDonald's, then include a diving board, but no ladder to get out. Problem solved! :)

Off-topic note: This is my 500th comment. I asked in my journal what I should do to mark my 500th comment, and somebody (can't imagine who) said I should say this: 'Not few enough to claim I have a life, and not enough to be super cool like gmhowell (who is currently typing number 2694).' So this message is dedicated to gmhowell, poster extraordinaire, to whose lofty heights (up to 2712 comments as of this writing) I can but dream to aspire.

Besides, he's got FortKnox beat by at least 400. ;)

Re:Easy Enough

[FortKnox]

Besides, he's got FortKnox [slashdot.org] beat by at least 400.

And I had no life (as per Michael) when I was at 713!!

TSO Playtest

[Splat]

I currently mess around in The Sims Online playtest every so often.

Last time I checked my Sim didn't have a
"Fuck Shit Up" or "Riot" popup menu.

I guess I'll just have to settle for "Shake Fist", "Berate" and "Throw Up" to boycott the McDonalds items when they show up.

Protest I'd like to see

[executioner]

Sims filling streets in front of City hall and the courthouse Protesting the DMCA

Protest methods?

[AugstWest]

Can I open a SimBrick kiosk near the SimMcD's to sell SimObjects to throw through the SimWindows? ( Hmmm. Aah, all right. We'll have, uh, two with points and... a big flat one.).

Can I SimSpit on people wearing SimFur? Maybe hit them with SimSprayPaint?

'Protest Pack' add-on

[pr0t0plasm]

Now Maxis can market a new expansion pack to add black-shirted anarchists and French nationalists to the Sims. Co-option ho!

But.... why not a Subway? McDonald's sucks!

[SexyKellyOsbourne]

At subway, you get a sub prepared anyway you like, by the friendly, efficient staff. Choose from mouth-watering veggies, succulent meats and cheeses, and a variety of freshly-baked bread. Why not stop in today and pick up some subs for the whole family to enjoy. I suggest the Italian BMT, piled high with genoa salami, pepperoni, ham, and provolone cheese. Top it with lettuce, tomato, onion, and pickles, add a few spritzes of italian dressing and you've got a meal fit for king.

Subway: eat fresh!

Re:But.... why not a Subway? McDonald's sucks!

[LordHunter317]

If you actually think anything that comes from behind the counter is good for you, you're insane.

In all reality, you're not gonna really get thinner from eating Subway. The only way is to--

WORK YOUR FAT ASS!

I should know, I used to work there.

Re:But.... why not a Subway? McDonald's sucks!

[louzerr]

SubWay is an excellent way to loose weight in a hurry - nothing takes off the pounds like salmonella!

Something about deli meat sitting out on the counter all day . . .

My advice - find a good asian restaurant. Or better yet, get your own wok!

sims can't get fat

[mr_gerbik]

Ironically, there are no fat Sims. Veterans of the original game will know this, and the same is true of the online game. There are various head and body skins that simulate different sexes, ethnic types .. even species.. but there are no various body sizes.

Maxis (EA) should really turn this into a profitable venture by allowing the Sims to gain weight from eating at the SimMcDonalds.. They could strike a deal with Ballys so that people can work their fat Sims out to loose weight at a virtual Ballys.

-gerbik

Re:sims can't get fat

[spacedx]

Sorry but, not true.

There are a few "pot belly" body skins, at least for male characters, in the original game and even in Sims Online, just as there are muscular and skinny body skins.

However I do agree that eating virtual McDonald's should make your Sim fat eventually. It is a Sim(ulation) of what would happen in reality, right?

Re:sims can't get fat

[Robotech_Master]

Well, this is only half true. There aren't any really fat Sims, but there are some definitely paunchy body types, even in the original game...people with pot bellies.

Re:sims can't get fat

[waldeaux]

I think they're anorexic, skinny, and normal.

Oh wait, I use the weight charts from the 80's when the dividing lines between normal/overweight/obese hadn't been shifted as much as *40-50* pounds downwards.

First, people ASK for a game that mimics life..

[19Buck]

and when they get it, the "petition" to have the real life aspect, because it "Smacks of commercialism" removed.

Sure, i'll sit here eating my quarter pounder while playing sims.. the difference is,unlike me, my sim won't get fat too, so why SHOULDN'T the sim be able to load up on greasy fries and burgers?

MMoRPG games are expensive to develop and operate, I think that commercial product placement into the game fits well into the established context of the game itself (a virtual people simulator, we were can all be beautiful have maxed bod skills, and still eat like pigs!). Maxis/EA is just looking for a way to offset some of the development and operational costs. What's wrong with that? The product placement fits well into the context of the game itself.

Now, if they were sticking McDee emblems on the sides of ships in Earth and Beyond, that would strike me as out of place.

Messed up priorities?

[Prince_Ali]

If the biggest thing wrong in someone's world is a stupid marketing tie-in then they need to get a life, and stop complaining.
If is good to know that Sim Online will come complete with Sim Crybabies.

I've been waiting for this ...

[mustangdavis]

This is probably only the beginning.

At one point in time, I was consdiering creating a "real world" game, similar to everquest in terms of graphics and game style, but using modern weapons instead of old style weapons. The ctach was this: I was hoping to drum up enough advertising revenue from companies, such as McDonalds, but placing their companies in the game. The hope was to defeat everquest by reducing or eliminating the monthly service fee for playing the game with advertsing dollars.

Of course, then I realized the McD's probably wouldn't like people blowing up their buildings with a rocket launcher ... so I gave up on the idea.

But give it a little more time. I'm sure a game, like the one I just vaguely described, will exist before soon.

Re:I've been waiting for this ...

[Lonath]

Yeah, I thought of this a long time ago, also. I'm sure lots of people did. This is one of those areas that makes me wish I could stomach software patents. Just patent all of these really bad ideas "Adverts/virtual buildings tied to real corporations within a virtual environment" and then sue the fuck out of the wankers who try to make advertising so prevalent. Come to think of it, maybe I should think about all of those places that DON'T have advertising now, and then patent the idea of putting an ad into any one of those places. Then sue the fuck out of those lusers who are trying to fill up every iota of space in the world with adverts.

Product Placement

[Bytenik]

I remember the days when "product placement" meant that products were used as background and filler elements. They were still visible, but they weren't the focus of a scene.

These days it's blantant and in-your-face. It's disgusting. I already pay to see the movie. Then they show me ads and trailers. And to top it off, I end up watching a 90 minute ad rather than a movie.

I fully expect to see James Bond drinking a Coke in the upcoming "Buy Another Day" movie. He'll pick up the can, turn to the camera, they'll get a tight zoom on him as he takes a swing and then he'll say something like:

"The only thing I don't like shaken is my Coke. It's the Real Thing."

Re:Product Placement

[stratjakt]

Actually, in the latest movie, bond now drinks bottled water instead of his shaken, not stirred martinis.

They've succumbed to the tea-totallers and PC health-nuts. Apparently he needed a more 'positive' image for the kids.

This is what protesting without thinking accomplishes. Charlies Angels don't carry guns, Bond drinks bottled water, and Terminator 3 will probably 'talk things out'.

Re:Product Placement

[Daniel_Staal]

Nope, he drinks 7-up.

Re:Product Placement

[Enry]

Ecch.

If you read the Fleming novels, Bond drank and moked too much, and was pretty often using amphetamines (speed) to stay awake during various missions.

I keep saying that Timothy Dalton was actually the most accurate Bond, but he was too accurate. Brosnan comes second, if only for attitude. Connery is third, but only for the first few movies.

That being said, Dalton sucked on screen and Connery was the best.

Umm

[segfault7375]

Wouldn't the best protest be to just simply not play? If enough people leave the game and tell Maxis the reason they are not playing, perhaps they will drop the deal.

When I used to play Everquest, the Rangers were very unhappy with thier class, so one day a ton of Rangers (and people from other classes) got together in game in the same zone and basically told Verant they were leaving if changes weren't made. After a few days of this it got too big and Verant couldn't ignore it anymore, and the changes were worked out with some of the high level players and then implemented in-game.

Vote with your wallets people!

~Segfault

Re:Umm

[rhkaloge]

You just pointed out the flaw with your own, and most of the people posting here, argument. The Everquest protest was done IN GAME. SO isn't even available to the general public yet, so there is little chance of a mass exodus at this point. But if you don't buy the game when it comes out, esentually you are saying "I don't wanna play your game". If you buy the game and protest the addition of McDonalds, then you are saying "I am a paying customer and I don't like what you've done with my game or this trend of product "placement" in games". Much more effective IMO.

B.O.B

New Spinoff - SimProtest

[LittleGuy]

Let your voice be heard from the comfort of your home. Send a Sim to a major city to protest (War on Iraq, IMF policies, or a hundred other causes), and watch your Sim be peppersprayed and arrested by well-armed SimCops.

Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[JThaddeus]

A pox on Ronald MacDonald!!

Actually, my kids have been boycotting MacDonald's since they were in elementary school (they are in high school now). A few years back, MacDonald's bought the failing Hardee's chain in the Washington, DC area. Hardee's also owned the Roy Rogers chain, about the finest fastfood burger joint in town (I fondly remember their "Fixin's Bar" and their fried chicken). MacDonald's then closed both Roy Rogers in our town and would not negotiate with other fastfood franchise for their old buildings. Boston Market tried and failed. Both buildings finally went to sit-down places.

Anyway, for closing Roys and for denying Boston Market, my kids decided--quite on their own--that they prefered Wendy's and Burger King. We haven't been in a MacDonald's since. This nonesense with Sims tells me that we're not ready to go back.

Maybe we should add Electronic Arts to our boycott as well!

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[Mr2001]

Anyway, for closing Roys and for denying Boston Market, my kids decided--quite on their own--that they prefered Wendy's and Burger King. We haven't been in a MacDonald's since.

Um, McDonald's owns Boston Market.

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[Wonko42]

"Anyway, for closing Roys and for denying Boston Market, my kids decided--quite on their own--that they prefered Wendy's and Burger King. We haven't been in a MacDonald's since. This nonesense with Sims tells me that we're not ready to go back."

Well thank the good Lord for that! Now that your kids are eating Whoppers and Big Bacon Cheeseburgers instead of Quarter Pounders and Big Macs, they've no doubt postponed their first heart attacks until well into their 30s! Congratulations!

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[serutan]

I'm proud to be the parent of a daughter who at age 6 said to my wife and me, when Ronald MacDonald walked up to us in a parade, "Hey, here comes a clown!" She didn't have a clue who the hell he was, and that was just fine with us.

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[Jhan]

So, your children will bloat into 200 pound 15-year-olds on Wendy's and Burger King-fare, instead if McDonalds? Good for you! Solidarity, man!

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[Guido del Confuso]

Good for you for doing the right thing and not supporting a company you don't like, rather than trying to force others to agree with your views. But... http://www.bostonmarket.com/company/

Boston Market Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation, operates more than 650 company-owned restaurants in 28 United States. Boston Market also operates restaurants in Australia and Canada.

McDonald's acquired Boston Market in 2000, and publicly had plans to do so for at least six months in advance (no doubt much longer, privately), so it seems sort of unlikely that they forced them out of the market out of some sort of malice. At any rate, I don't doubt that the prior owners of Boston Chicken, Inc. have any hard feelings about not getting the two restaurants in the D.C. area at this point, so you can stop holding that against McDonalds, if you like.

Besides, the food at Boston Market sucks royally. In my opinion, they did D.C. a favor.

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[be-fan]

Actually, Whoppers are perhaps the worst food item on the face of the planet. Something like 40-50 grams of fat per serving! That's more than half your daily allowence!

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[Wonko42]

I think the Jack in the Box Bacon Ultimate Cheeseburger has the Whopper beat. Bacon, two layers of cheese, big fat hamburger patty, two more layers of cheese, another hamburger patty, another layer of bacon, and all smothered in ketchup, mustard and mayonnaise. It's the only thing I've ever eaten that smells the same going in as it does coming out. That's not to say it smells bad -- it doesn't -- it's just so greasy that it slips right through the ol' digestive tract. Sure is delicious though.

Re:Not satisfied with killing Roy Rogers, huh?

[forii]

There's nothing wrong with being a 200 pound 15 year old.

Wanna know what I think?

[ksplatter]

Who cares about Organizing Sim Protests????? Ohh scary protesters are not going into my FAKE IMAGINARY MC Donalds! Who the Hell cares.
Games are for DOING stuff that you CAN'T Do. Not for stuff that you are TOO LAZY to do!

Go buy a real game like Counter Strike
If your life is that boring that you spend your time protesting at least put your efforts into something useful. Go protest sim Microsoft!

It's simple

[Waffle Iron]

It's simple: Vote with your actions. If you don't like the McDonald's kiosks in your video game, don't use them. You can use a Burger King or KFC kiosk instead.

Re: Addendum

[futuresheep]

The monthly fee will $14.95, making it the most expensive online game out there. Mc'Dees is hardly defraying the cost of playing this. I can get ISP service for less than the cost of a game that has already paid for itself many times in the retail sales of the original games and addons.

More worthless protesters

[NaCh0]

I don't care what those pinkos say, I like eating at McDonalds!

McDonalds part of society.

[jellomizer]

You could also think about it this way. McDonalds is a part of the American Landscape. Sure they are advertising for McDonalds in the Sims and McDonalds my be giving them money to do so. But I think the point of the game is to make it seem more realistic. Sure the food will most likely kill us. I dont nessarly like the food. But McDonalds is basicly an American Landmark.

Re:McDonalds part of society.

[MyHair]

You could also think about it this way. McDonalds is a part of the American Landscape.

So are violent crime, Marlboro billboards and phone sex ads. Should any of those be in Sims, too?

Re:McDonalds part of society.

[colmore]

This really does fit in well with the Sims.

The Sims reinforces suburban consumerist ideas of the good life. Your characters are happier with higher-paying jobs and more stuff. So bring on the marketing and the product-placement. It's perfectly in line with their philosophy.

Anyone who actually thinks about the anticorporate position, and doesn't just yell slogans for the fun of it would wonder why this should be a surprise at all in such a game.

it's already there

[buckthorn]

You've already got commercial messages... when you turn on a computer in the game, you get the Intel Inside logo on the little computer screen and the trademark noise. So this isn't the first deal they've struck. Hell, I say if it makes it cheaper and keeps them from jacking up the monthly user fees, I'm all for it. Just as long as it's a few carefully-placed placements and doesn't make every house into a NASCAR race, I'm fine with it.

Re:it's already there

[buckthorn]

I don't understand why it shouldn't. It's certainly a possibility. At any rate, this enhances EA's revenue stream at a time where such a stream is critically important. Customers will see the benefits of this stream, whether it be lower costs, better network reliability, more options in the game, or something else that will ultimately benefit the customer. I don't think EA/Maxis will take the money and stick it in their pockets, mainly because as this sort of reaction/backlash grows, they'll have to justify what they've done in terms of co-branding.

Not going to work

[ChuckMaster]

So how does playing the game a certain way going to stop the publishers from making deals that make them money?? Especially in an industry were nearly everyone is losing money. Let's say there's a lot of "vomitting" by the establishments. You think McDonald's is actually going to bulk? As if there was such a thing as bad publicity. Imagine if you spent all that time researching politicians and voting....

I wonder

[hrieke]

If the game will allow me to play as José Bové?
Google the name if you don't get the joke.

Why not go one step further?

[Savatte]

and have the characters in Sims sit around all day playing sims where their characters protest Mcdonalds?

The Next Logical Level

[limekiller4]

I can't wait until they come out with a game in which you take control of a salaryman who plays The Sims.

Then I wouldn't play that, either.

The game is already out

[DunbarTheInept]

Protesting by not purchasing fails when you can't find out about the thing you object to until after the purchase.

Re:The game is already out

[mark_lybarger]

i don't think i get it. do you first huff a little line of powder to see exactly what it is you're telling your kids not to do? do you first take a litte stroll into the diva dance club just to see what it is you're not going to see every weekend? i don't know all about this sims/McD's issue, but if the sims game has a rep for having lots of McD's ads everywhere, i'm sure the PETA folks won't be buying the game. they're probably not going to buy a copy just to make sure, they'll take your word for it.

Re:The game is already out

[revery]

Protesting by not purchasing fails when you can't find out about the thing you object to until after the purchase.

For crying out loud...
Maybe you weren't suggesting this, but from your post the first thing that came to mind was the idea that they should have disclosed their deal w/ McDonald's before they released it.

I find the idea that all content that may be found protestable (read: all content) should be predeclared so we can decide whether we hate you or love you. (again, I am not accusing you of making this point, thogh if you agree with it, I'd love to hear your rationale)

Re:The game is already out

[DunbarTheInept]

Clue for the hard of thinking: The McDonalds tie came into existence AFTER the game was out.

MOD PARENT UP!

[FortKnox]

EXACTLY!

Open source games? Want to make money? Offer marketing embeded WITHIN the game. It costs more money for your product to have 'good affects', etc. You could make a game, give it away for free AND make money.
The designers gets paid for his/her efforts.
The marketing people get tons of exposure for their products.
The gamer gets a quality game for free.

Its a win-win-win situation!!

Re:MOD PARENT UP!

[Mr. No Skills]

The variant on this, create a game with your marketing dollars.

http://www.americasarmy.com

Re:MOD PARENT UP!

[mark_lybarger]

great theory... until someone else comes along and rips out that damn annoying marketing crap and re-releases it for free because they're just a pre-college student with nothing better to do.

open source is about as anti-marketing as you can get. as soon as someone trys to sell it, there's always someone else willing to give it away.

Simoutside

[Malicious]

Amazing that the company would choose to promote a fastfoodchain, that requires you leaving the house. I would have more expected Sim Pizza, which can be ordered to your door.
Outside is overrated anyway (if you're a simaddict)

Fast Forward to 2005

[fobbman]

Maxis has struck so many deals with corporations that players of The Sims discover that their Sims are being oversaturated with commercialism, thereby causing them to buy a copy of "The Sims for The Sims" so that their Sim Family can get away from it all.

Marketing genius, I say.

Re:Fast Forward to 2005

[Coke in a Can]

Err, go play either Hot Date or Vacation, can't remember which expansion pack it was. Your sims can buy The Sims as gifts for other sims. I've tried it. It doesn't actually improve a sim's fun level, so I guess Maxis has really been working on the realism.

They need to finish it up

[r_j_prahad]

After all that pigging out at MacDonald's, do your Sims end up weighing a simulated 300 pounds each? Do they get simulated atherosclerosis? Sim diabetes? Sim strokes? Sim food poisoning? Do Sim children come down with simulated ADHD?

Not entirely accurate then, is it?

Re:They need to finish it up

[kalidasa]

After all that pigging out at MacDonald's, do your Sims end up weighing a simulated 300 pounds each? Do they get simulated atherosclerosis? Sim diabetes? Sim strokes? Sim food poisoning? Do Sim children come down with simulated ADHD? Not entirely accurate then, is it?

No worse than the borrow-and-spend economics of SimCity, where even a 0.1% raise in taxes will lower your ratings dramatically.

Re:They need to finish it up

[carpe_noctem]

Do Sim children come down with simulated ADHD?
I think this is pretty much a given. ;]

Re:They need to finish it up

[sammaytg1]

Um how do kids get adhd from eating fatty food. THey have doen studys and kids wiht add actauilly have smaller brains(proportianl to their level of add)

Rational for plaqueing society?

[kalidasa]

Umm, that's rationale and plague, folks. A plaque is a small sign. Rational means reasonable or relating to reason. A plague is a widespread disease (and metaphorically a lot of something unpleasant). A rationale is an excuse or reason for doing something.

Re:Rational for plaqueing society?

[dalassa]

Plaque is also the stuff on your teeth which McDonalds food can put there. :-)

Re:Rational for plaqueing society?

[derfel]

Plaque is also that stuff that BigMacs and fries line your arteries with.

Re:Rational for plaqueing society?

[cosyne]

Plaque is also the nasty stuff that builds up on your teeth and in your arteries (like when you eat the type of diet in question). While it's not usually considered a verb, verbing nouns is not all that unusual around here. The idea of 'plaqueing society' is a bit metaphorical, but not incomprehensible.

That being said, yes, you're probably right.

I hate McDonalds food!

[dethl]

*munch**munch*...could you pass the Big Mac over here please?

UNIX Developers Conference...

[cnelzie]

I don't know of any homeless shelters with Chopsticks and Asian cooking... Let alone Beer, although some, if not most homeless might be able to sneak a few brews in...

Re:UNIX Developers Conference...

[Tackhead]

> I don't know of any homeless shelters with Chopsticks and Asian cooking... Let alone Beer, although some, if not most homeless might be able to sneak a few brews in...

Where some see only hopelessness, others see opportunity!

Re:UNIX Developers Conference...

[Inthewire]

Usefull isn't a word. Just a friendly tip.

does it work though?

[ryochiji]

I don't play games (much less Sims) so I don't know, but I wonder how effective "virtual protests" are. One of the things that makes a physical protest effective is that, well, it's physical. If you fill up downtown Washington with people, somebody's bound to notice (even politicians). But when people congregate online, who really notices?

I also wonder about the effectiveness of email campains (i.e. when we send email to our 'representatives'). I have a feeling that a fax machine spewing messages is a lot more noticeable than a full mailbox.

So, yeah, it is interesting. But what interests me more is whether or not it works at all.

Re:does it work though?

[edrugtrader]

you've obviously never been slashdotted... the person that pays the bandwidth bills is the one that notices when people congregate online.

Re:does it work though?

[sg3000]

> One of the things that makes a physical protest
> effective is that, well, it's physical. If you fill up
> downtown Washington with people, somebody's
> bound to notice (even politicians).

Even a physical protest can be ignored if there's no press. For example, families of the victims of the September 11 attack got together for a protest in D.C. earlier this year, but the march was virtually ignored because Ashcroft chose the exact same time to report on the alleged 'dirty bomb" suspect al Muhajir that they had arrested a month before.

Or more recently, it's been estimated that close to 100,000 people attended rallies around the country to protest the proposed Iraq Resolution. However, no one in the mainstream media except USA Today (IIRC) bothered to cover it.

Protests are generally only effective if they get the attention of everyone else via the mainstream press. The on-line protest of McDonalds might get some press once simply because of the novelty of it. But after that, it won't be very effective.

Re:does it work though?

[kevlar]

100,000 people is peanuts compared to the 260M person population of this country. I'm willing to bet that of those 100,000 people, 90,000 of them are out of touch college students who protest everything from Gillette to Starbucks.

Re:does it work though?

[delcielo]

Virtual protesting might not work; but I bet we could find some virtual extremist to firebomb the virtual Mickey D's.

Re:does it work though?

[Kashif Shaikh]

The problem with 'virtual protests' is that you are 'living' in the world of its creators. Meaning, the people who brought you the virtual stuff can take down/modify/etc. content, so that it doesn't harm the company in the end.

Case in point: game forums. Lot's of people bitch and complain, flame and curse the games they love and hate. It is a protest in that sometimes your voice gets heard(i.e. 3dfx bowed to pressure that Voodoo Rushes were falsly advertised to be as fast as Voodoo Graphics video cards, and many wanted their money back. 3dfx instead replaced their cards and gave 'em Voodoo Graphics).

But remember this: a company owns the forums and can moderate or completely shut down forums to protect its image. This is what sort of happened with Origin's single-player Ultima game. There were just so many bugs and false promises about this game, that people were literally fscking hounding the game and giving it a very,very bad image(game developers fault btw).

Before Origin released the game in the UK, it shutdown all forums so that the people overseas don't know how bad the game really was, proving that virtual protests will not work when your enemy is providing the means of the protests.

Re:does it work though?

[El]

All the Portland, Oregon news stations covered the recent protests hear, mostly to report the astonishing news that only one person was arrested (for climbing on the hood of a police car and spitting at cops). Of course, they don't call this the left coast for nothing...

Re:does it work though?

[ryochiji]

The problem with 'virtual protests' is that you are 'living' in the world of its creators. Meaning, the people who brought you the virtual stuff can take down/modify/etc. content, so that it doesn't harm the company in the end.

The problem with 'physical protests' is that you are 'living' in the world of its creators. Meaning, the people who brought you the laws can take down/modify/etc. the laws, so that it doesn't harm the government in the end.

Re:does it work though?

[Sentry21]

I don't know what your university towns are like, but at UNB, students protesting Starbucks would be like transplant patients refusing invasive surgery.

The effects would be as self-detrimental too.

--Dan

Sims as propaganda

[dpbsmith]

This brings up an issue I have with simulation games such as The Sims. It does, of course, apply to other games as well, and to many other situations where the viewer or player must distinguish between fantasy and reality.

Nevertheless: simulation games convey a certain impression of verisimilitude. As you play them, you cannot avoid gaining skill in dealing with the simulated universe, and learning "lessons."

To the extent that the player preceives the game as authentically realistic, these "lessons" may sneak in past the barriers we've built against other forms of propaganda

Some are of these lessons are semi-political. And some, it seems, may be product placements.

For example, in SimCity, as I recall, the citizens clamor for a sports stadium and it is very important to the success of your city that you build one (at the right time, of course).

Did the creators of the game base this on actual data about the economic effects of sports stadiums on cities? (Unlikely). Or were they just building in a plausible and entertaining set of game rules? (Probably). Or... were they carrying water for some group that was trying to get a stadium built? (No, I don't really think so--but the possibility exists). Similarly, is the behavior of SimCity residents with respect to tax rates an authentic simulation, artistic guesswork--or a political agenda?

Of course these problems exist with all games, and to some extent it's an issue of developing antibodies against the newer games. There's no real danger that I will speculate in Atlantic City properties just Monopoly has given me the illusion that I understand how to do it.

Still...

Big picture

[felis_panthera]

I've seen a lot of /.ers already talking about not buying the game, not playing the game, etc. The problem I have with this philosophy is that it's like wrapping your face in a towel, figuring that if the problem sees that you can't see it, it won't be able to see you, and will therefore go away. THIS DOESN'T WORK.

The problem is not the people worried about advertising in games. The problem is that this could open up a Pandora's Box of other companies buying advertising time inside games.

"You have cleard the 13th level of monsters, through this door is the Ultimate Evil, all you must do is cross this threshold and defeat him... But first, here's a word from our sponsors..."

I already do everything in my power to eliminate my exposure to mind numbing advertising. If it starts getting put into video games, I won't be able to go for popcorn until the previews start, or to go grab a snack until my show comes back on.

Of course, it's just my opinion.

Re:Big picture

[NineNine]

I've seen a lot of /.ers already talking about not buying the game, not playing the game, etc. The problem I have with this philosophy is that it's like wrapping your face in a towel, figuring that if the problem sees that you can't see it, it won't be able to see you, and will therefore go away. THIS DOESN'T WORK

Well, what does work, Mr. Wizard?

Call me nuts, but I'd think that a company seeing a significant drop in sales would take a step back and ask themselves, "Dear sweet christ on a pony!! Why has revenue dropped through the floor? We're all gonna get fired and live on the streets and forced to kill and eat each other! aaahh!". Well, maybe it wouldn't go quite like that, but what effects a company more than profits? Since companies exist to make profits, what could be more effective? Don't like it, don't buy it. If you want to go a step further and tell them why, even better.

Re:Big picture

[JordoCrouse]

I already do everything in my power to eliminate my exposure to mind numbing advertising. If it starts getting put into video games, I won't be able to go for popcorn until the previews start, or to go grab a snack until my show comes back on.

The makers of the game have chosen to do this. That is their right, because it is their game. But I just looked at the Bill of Rights and nowhere does it say anything about your right to play video games (and I read it twice to make sure). But apparently, you do have the right to not purchase the game, and nobody compells you to give your time, money or eyeballs to anybody.

But if you feel that it must be a life or death requirement to play these games, you must accept the fact that they may have advertisments.

Either play the games and endure the advertisments, or don't give them your business. There is no third thing.

Re:Big picture

[TheTick]

If you don't buy the game, the theory goes, game companies won't make more games like that. If someone wants your money, and is doing something you don't like, tell 'em you won't give 'em your money until they stop.

If you don't like EA's actions wrt McDonald's, tell them. Tell them you won't buy their games until they stop. Tell your friends. Tell your mom. Encourage them to do the same thing. Then don't buy any games until EA has complied. I don't care how cool this or that title looks. I don't care how much you like the Sims.

That's they way the market is supposed to work. The point is not to hide from the problem, but to exercise the power of the consumer in the marketplace.

Re:Big picture

[crnium]

This post hints at an important issue.
Not buying the game is not going to change the fact that thousands of people will buy the game. If Maxis makes their profit and doesn't hear much complaint, why would they or other company turn down any offer to advertise in their game? Your choice to simply "not buy the game" in reality doesn't have as much effect on the marketplace as is traditionally thought.
I can't think of many items worth more than $20 which also are subsidized by advertising--charging the typical game price and making ad money on top sounds like an invitation for piracy.

Re:Big picture

[mehip2001]

Not buying the game is not going to change the fact that thousands of people will buy the game

What it will prove is that a vocal minorty is trying to impose their will on the majority. What makes you and your silly little McDonalds hating friends any more important than the "thousands" that do buy and enjoy the game?
If you don't like it, push off and let the others enjoy the game.

Re:Big picture

[catch23]

but of course not buying the game is the obvious solution. if game companies realize this is a strong negative effect and only a few buy the game, why would they want to stick that "feature" into the next game? Sometimes if you wrap the towel around your face and pretend it isn't there, the problem will just go away...

Re:Big picture

[merky1]

I doubt that an executive would be able to relate the addition of product placement to a drop in revenue. What is a more probable scenario is that they would compensate the loss of sales with revenue from the product placement.

Re:Big picture

[be-fan]

Not everything is a right, and not everything has to be spelled out in the constitution. The first thing you don't realize is that it's not fully under your control. The majority of users out there don't care (because they're stupid and don't know any better, not because they don't mind the advertising) so you not buying the game isn't going to accomplish anything. Given that, it is entirely within your rights as a consumer of a product to complain about certain aspects of that product in order to get them changed. If developers can fill their products with garbage, I can certainly bitch at them for it! There is your third thing!

Re:Big picture

[be-fan]

The sad fact is that the majority probably does hate the McDonald reference, but puts up with it anyway. Do you realize the huge, enormous number of Windows users that detest all the crap sitting in their system tray popping up at them at random times? Do you think they keep quiet because they like those interruptions, or because they're so programmed into believing that computer companies are monolithic entities that you cannot appeal to? Notice the difference in people's behavior when dealing with a small, local shop and a large corporation. With the small shop, the feel like they can change things. If the service isn't up to standards, they'll complain quite loudly. With a large corporation, they get this feeling that they're irrelevent, and no amount of customer feedback will do any good. Thus, they'll bend over and take everything the company wants to give them.

PS> A personal "fuck you" goes out to RealPlayer for starting all this system tray non-sense. I remember back when I got Windows 95, there was not a single program that auto-started and clogged up my system tray with useless junk. Then, RealPlayer (4.x or 5.x I think) came and started it, and now we've gotten to the point where AIM will autostart with several glaring Windows and adds on your desktop.

Re:Big picture

[Dalcius]

Agreed.

I would like to add that not a whole lot of people will stop buying the games ... it's likely folks will just go with it. It's annoying, and they want it to stop, which is why they buy it and voice their opinion.

On a tangent, I really wish folks would quit with the mentality that you either don't buy it or shut up. Just because you protest changes you don't like doesn't mean you can't like the overall product.... yeesh.

Re:Big picture

[NineNine]

Well, not buying a product, and suggesting to others not to buy a product, or even organizing a boycott is *the* most effective way to make your voice heard within a company. Period. Companies exist to make profits, so if they make less profit, they're gonna listen (or they're gonna die, which happens under bad management). I see not buying a product (and organizing and/or educating others) as the worst thing you can do to a company. If you're just mildly annoyed, then continue to use the product, and tell the company that unless they change, you're not gonna buy any more. But keep in mind that they know that you're a consumer who's not upset enough to stop using the product, so they take suggestions from current consumers with a grain of salt. "Well, he says he's pissed, but he keeps buying, so how pissed can he really be? It's cheaper to not do anything, and they'll keep buying anyway, so let's not change." So, here's my suggestions:

mildly annoyed: Ask the company to change.

pretty damn annoyed: Ask the company to change or they'll lose your business.

pissed off at them or their product: Don't buy it.

Think their product is pure evil: Don't buy, and tell others not to buy.

Re:Big picture

[AnyoneEB]

Obviously they'll blame on piracy, which is pretty much impossible without hacking into the server because account information is stored server-side because it's an online game (I assume).

Re:Big picture

[Tokerat]

Wrapping a towel around your head and hoping the problem goes away will not work, ever.

However, not purchasing a video game due to intrusive advertising will work. The ads alone won't pay the bills, so I doubt the company will go that route again. Besides, what advertiser would want to have their ad be the one that pops up and annoys the crap out of some poor gamer? Or, better yet, what advertiser will want to buy ad space once they see that no one buys a game loaded with ads?

Non-intrusive advertising is fine. "Oh, here's a McDonalds in The Sims Online, neato. BTW, your monthly subscription fee is so conviniently low now because McDonalds pays for part of it." If a game brought me to the last level and showed me an ad before allowing me to fight the final boss or what have you, I would return it to the store. If the store wouldnt take it, I'd mail it back the manufacturer with a note demanding a refund. (Well, I'd probably call them first...)

I dont' think that game developers themselves would like a game with intrusive ads like that in it, and therefore realize it wouldnt' entertain their customers much, either.

(Just you wait, Sims online will get rid of the McDonalds thing, and the price will climb up. And everyone will complain about the high price. Be careful what you wish, you just might get it.)

Re:Big picture

[Tokerat]

By the way, nice troll in there....

You must be wrong if you wrap towels around your head and try to make your problems go away, you TERRORIST!

;-)

Re:Big picture

[mehip2001]

The sad fact is that the majority probably does hate the McDonald reference, but puts up with it anyway. Do you realize the huge, enormous number of Windows users that detest all the crap sitting in their system tray popping up at them at random times? Do you think they keep quiet because they like those interruptions, or because they're so programmed into believing that computer companies are monolithic entities that you cannot appeal to? Notice the difference in people's behavior when dealing with a small, local shop and a large corporation. With the small shop, the feel like they can change things. If the service isn't up to standards, they'll complain quite loudly. With a large corporation, they get this feeling that they're irrelevent, and no amount of customer feedback will do any good. Thus, they'll bend over and take everything the company wants to give them.

To put it nicely, I simply don't belive you. If so many people hated McDonald as you assert, why then are they still in business? There are *lots* of alternatives yet McDonalds sticks around. I personaly don't care fir their food, I prefer burgers with more beef on them.
As for your other examples..if someone hates something then they simply need to stop using/buying. Complaining otherwise is just whinney bullshit. I am tired of the whinney ass people complaing that they can't do anything about it yet continue to line up for it. PLEASE..these people deserve everything they get.

Re:Big picture

[be-fan]

I never said people hate McDonald's. I said that people would hate having a McDonald's commercial in their game. Very different beast. As for your "whiney bullshit" stuff, your idea is just a byproduct of an overly simplistic thought process.

1) People, when given the appropriate environment, do have fairly high standards for service quality.
2) People are intimidated by large corporations, to the point where that intimidation overrides their desire for quality.
3) There is a minority out there not indimidated by corporations, who are fully willing to boycott products that they don't like.

In the context of the above three statements, the "whinney bullshit" looks very different. Instead of complaining because the majority wants something they do not, the minority is complaining about something nobody wants, but something that the majority is too intimidated/lazy/etc to reject outright. Given the lassitude of the majority, there is nothing else the minority can do but to speak out against the product, hoping to find another way to convince the company to change its practices. Further, your last sentence becomes very different. It's not just the scared/lazy people who deserve it that get stuck with bad products, it's the vocal minority as well.

Re:Big picture

[crnium]

Hating McDonalds is a completely different point. The point is that it isn't right that game makers can profit from ads and from game sales. If I'm paying $40+ for a game, I think I am compensating the creator quite enough. If they are selling ad space to make up for what is lost by pirates, they should go the route of TV and just give the games away as a free download. Feelings about McDonald's aside, Maxis is the culprit here.

Re:Big picture

[Dalcius]

Pretty nice theory in general, and for the most part, I agree, but realistically you have to realize (heh) that most folks won't participate in a boycott of something like The Sims. If I wanted to get rid of advertising in The Sims, I would have to be pretty damn ticked not to buy it given the likelyhood of me helping to change anything.

I'm all up for the philosophy that you've got to stick your neck out and hope others follow, but sometimes you've just got to realize that most folks are just sheep who buy things.

Re:Big picture

[mehip2001]

I never said people hate McDonald's. I said that people would hate having a McDonald's commercial in their game. Very different beast. As for your "whiney bullshit" stuff, your idea is just a byproduct of an overly simplistic thought process.

Sorry, I miss-read the thing about McD's.
As far as over-simple. I completly disagree. A person would have to be completly daft to continue to pay for something they are so un-happy with. And as far as being intimidated, my god how do these people get by day to day if they can't say "No, I don't like this and will not pay for it." Whats the thing worse that can happen, the big Corp wont sell them a product they don't like anyway?

Sorry to disagree or as you call it oversimplify but, it is extreamly simple to me. I don't like a product, I'm getting a refund and / or will stop paying the monthly dues.

Re:Big picture

[be-fan]

You might try to get a refund when you don't like a product, but most people don't. People put up with substandard quality all the time. For example, the cable company in our area has some seriously atrocious service. There are alternatives, thanks to deregulation, but do you think that consumers go to all the trouble needed to subscribe to one of the small alternative providers? No. They stick with the status quo.

Re:Big picture

[mehip2001]

Then like I said, it is their problem and they are bringing it on themselves and as you pointed out on us. If these people had a spine, life for them would be much happier. Life is just too damned complitacted and stressful already, why make yourself miserable.

Improves what stats?

[_xeno_]

Unless the Sims Online is adding a bunch of stats to the Sims that weren't in the original game that I admittedly don't play anymore, your stats are mostly things like exaustion, hunger, etc. Eating a Big Mac probably satisifies a Sim's "hunger" stat and maybe even makes the Sim happier.

Admittably, I don't know exactly what stats a Sims Online Sim has. So this is also half a question - what stats does it improve? I'd imagine that it isn't something stupid like eating a Big Mac improves your charisma, intelligence, and strength - it just satisfies a Sim's hunger (and increases the Bathroom need). Which makes an amount of sense - eating a Big Mac in real life is usually done to satisfy hunger. There are plenty of other people here to make fun of McD's crappy food, so I'll let 'em do it.

(Anyone else think McDonalds fries are crap? America's favorite fries? I'd hope not...)

Re:Improves what stats?

[Peyna]

"America's favorite fries?"

I think its a misnomer. Probably most consumed fries, but that doesn't translate into 'favorite'.

Re:Improves what stats?

[Arker]

I did read the article, and it's essentially as you said. The effects will be to hunger and cool. The hunger part I can see, I eat McDonalds food sometimes myself, but cool? Please, that's just silly.

Anyway, I think what people are upset about, at least the ones that wrote the article, is more the notion this will be a slippery slope, that if EA doesn't experience a huge backlash 'product placement' will become the fixture in the gaming world it already is in Hollywood. That would suck enourmously.

Re:Improves what stats?

[Robotech_Master]

Um, there's no such stat as "cool". ITYM "fun"?

At any rate, McDonald's commercials are always trying to paint them as a "fun" place to eat, so I can sort of see them asking for that.

Re:Improves what stats?

[Arker]

Yeah, fun is the right word. Sorry, little cross language confusion precipitated by tiredness last night. In swedish it's 'kul'. I find myself mixing swedish and english in speech, but I think this is the first time I've done it accidentally in writing.

Re:Improves what stats?

[Martin S.]

(Anyone else think McDonalds fries are crap?

Yep, they don't taste of real potatoes bcause they are made from industrial starch not potatoes. The McNuggets are made using 'bleached beef' (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UT F-8&q=bleached+beef&btnG=Google+Search). .

Why protest?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you would like to understand the issues that these people are protesting about (and they are complex and many), then I urge you read a book called "Fast Food Nation".

Don't forget to add...

[Shalome]

Don't forget to add code that makes the characters get acne and greasy hair, gain inordinate amounts of weight, and eventually die from throttled arteries!

How about....

[Patman]

...the radical techniques of 'not buying the add-on', 'ignoring the option', or 'finding something else to do with your time'.

I am constantly amazed by the stuff people will get their panties in a bunch over.

Re:How about....

[ameoba]

One slight problem...

This news has only caused a stir in small communities, such as Slashdot. The Sims is a massively popular game, easily one of the top-10, targeted at the general population.

The online version of the Sims is almost guaranteed to be a major commercial success; Even if every slashdotter refused to buy a copy, it'll still make a mint. The rest of the population is likely to only find out about the McD's thing after they purchase the game.

And since Sims Online is almost guaranteed to be a massive success, marketing types & beancounters at game dev houses will see a massively successful game with advertising and think nothing of further product placement, eventually having it in EVERY game. Unless the Sims flops or developers see that the public won't tolerate advertising in their games, we'll see more adverts down the line.

so, let me get this straight :

[joshsisk]

They are organizing a real world protest of the fact that McDonalds is in the game, or are they planning an online protest at the McDonalds that is in the game (or both)? The second is what came to mind first, reading the article. And that'd be more funny.

Note : I haven't read the article, as it seems to be /.'d.

simPETA is right behind them...

[Future Linux-Guru]

Kiosk owners will find one of the business challenges is dealing with virtual nuts who form sit downs and disrupt the business for no good reason at all.

Maybe the owners will get to own virtual bazookas that fire burger patties...

Maxis?

[silvakow]

Wow, and for a minute there I thought "Maxis" had something to do with what women wear a few days a month. After reading a post further down, I realized you weren't talking about making a maxi pad wet with coffee ...

Re:The Sims is not open source.

[mark_lybarger]

hey now. thoughts like this could lead to boycotting Quake 3 arena, and ... well... we just won't have any of that around this here.

Oy!

[Thud457]

The dining Austrailian philosopher's problem : seven software developers at a table and only one bottle opener!

get a life!

[peter303]

Stop worrying about politically correct video games. there aremore important this to do.

Why not Pizza Hut?

[computechnica]

My wife has been playing the test version of Sims Online for about 2 months now (on my PC). The most interesting game the characters play for SiMoney is a 4-way Pizza makeing machine.The rest of the game seems like a glorified 3D avatar chatroom. It's also interesting that you form house holds with room-mates of both sex's but marriage is not supported. At least Virtual Sex isn't included, Yet.

My kids are happy she's playing it though, she was addicted to Kingdom Hearts(aka Final Disney) on the PS2. They have their PS2 back, but know I have to upgrade her PC so I can get mine back;^)

Re:Interesting Idea (off-topic)

[landaker]

Memories become legend, Legend fades to myth, and even myth is forgotten before the age that gave it birth comes again. If you're going to use Robert Jordan quotes as taglines, it's typically good idea to actually cite the author. =) Otherwise, whether you meant to or not, it looks like you're either trying to take credit for thinking it up yourself.

How is this realistic?

[Qzukk]

The sim* games used to have a trend towards realism, ever since I started playing them. Starting from my own city, I moved onto bigger and/or more detailed simulations... planets, themeparks, and so on.

And now we get "eating McDonalds to increase the player's stats"... what stats will this increase? Weight? While The Sims isn't supposed to be exactly like life (that is, in my opinion, part of the fun) it should at least parallel it in most ways.

I'm not going to buy this game. It crosses the line between "product placement" and mangling the game to advertise some product. There isn't any reason to support breaking a game world to force advertising into someplace it didn't belong. The days of eating random stuff to gain powers should have gone out with the Nintendo and such wonders as Super Mario Brothers and River City Ransom.

For example, Parasite Eve II had vending machines from a major soft drink company, but only in places where you would expect the machines to be. The machines didn't give you immortality or anything like that, they were just there, without changing the game dynamics in any way.

We need to put things into perspective here.

[antis0c]

It's been reported that eating virtual McDonald's hamburgers will positively affect your "Fun" and "Hunger" game stats. But what if you're a vegetarian? What if you're an eco-activist? What if you think it's more Fun dining at Biff's Family Restaurant? Although the game hasn't hit the stores yet, the free public beta is open. The time to act is now. Log in, Revolutionary, and fight the good fight:

What. The. Hell.

Seriously. What if you're a vegetarian? What?? Ok. I'm morally opposed to murdering people, but I don't have a problem with Quake 3, GTA3, Hitman 2, Dead to Rights. Heck I even enjoy playing those games. Why? It's a damn video game, and it's not real.

With EA touting such egalitarian rhetoric, it follows to reason that freedom of speech is as alive in The Sims Online as it is in the real world. Test this theory by standing up and shouting for what you believe in, my Revolutionaries! If the thought of being force-fed Big Macs makes you sick, you'd better start giving this advertising model a serious case of indigestion.

Alright. First off it says you have the option of opening up a McDonalds. Let me guess to, you also have the option of eating at said McDonalds. Seems like real life to me. No where does it say you have to open a McDonalds and have to eat at them. McDonalds just happens to be the only company EA made a deal with to use their image in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if in future Sim games we see Burger King, Chick-Fil-A, TGI Fridays, Bennigans, all those places. So what the hell is the problem?

And dare I say it, some people like McDonalds. I like the occastional French Fry from McDonalds or the occastional Quarter Pounder with cheese. I don't live off the stuff, I don't consider it high quality food. It's funny how these guys go on to say how we all hate McDonalds, and how we all 'know' McDonalds food is terrible, yet somehow, McDonalds continues to be the worlds largest fast food chain.

Then we get the people who believe McDonalds and other fast food places are the cause of obsesity in the world. I'm no underwear model myself, but seriously, Ronald McDonald didn't come to my house and force feed me Big Macs until I couldn't see my feet anymore. There are no bad foods, there are only food abuses. But I digress. The point is, it's a video game people. A video game simulating every day life. McDonalds for many people, is a part of every day life. So are other things. I don't think EA can afford to pay all the popular fast food places to use their likeness in the game, nor do they have the time to program the game to handle them all.

Seriously. Repeat after me. It's a video game, it's not real.

Re:We need to put things into perspective here.

[antis0c]

One more thing too. Given everything said above, of course you have the freedom to protest it in the game if you'd like, just like I have the freedom to call your protest stupid and then march my SimFatAss into the SimMcDonalds and eat myself a dozen SimEggMcMuffins, but I'm not going to shed a tear about it.

Re:We need to put things into perspective here.

[scot4875]

Yes, it's a video game, but I think you're missing the point.

I, for one, play games mostly to get away from real life for a little bit. Part of the fun of immersing myself in a different world is that I get away from all the goddamn commercialism of US culture. Everywhere I go I'm bombarded with ads designed to mislead me into giving someone my money. It disgusts me.

Now, if I were a Sims player, I'd enjoy the fact that you get to play in a small utopia with none of that crap. But when McDonalds invades *that* world too, it'd just ruin the atmosphere. Once again, I'm reminded that I can't escape the megacorps and their relentless marketing teams.

The day I run across an American fast food chain store on Tallon IV is the day I give up video games for good...

--Jeremy

Re:We need to put things into perspective here.

[SuperJim]

Thank you antis0c. At least I read one comment that made sense. (and lots of funny ones)

I couldn't agree more with you. Well said.

Re:We need to put things into perspective here.

[JordoCrouse]

Once again, I'm reminded that I can't escape the megacorps and their relentless marketing teams.

You know, therre is this great place called the outdoors. And, if you keep driving, past the buildings, you run into something people call wilderness. And unless, you live in Iowa, there are things out there called mountains. And believe it or not, people are allowed to walk around in those mountains. That is called escaping the "megacorps and their relentless marketing teams".

And even if you live in a city, there are things called books that you can look at. I don't ever recall seeing an ad in "The Hobbit", but maybe I should read it again just to be sure. If you really want to get away, there are big quiet buildings called libraries that you can go to.

Unless, you simply can't pry yourself away from your TV and computer - and then, yeah, I guess you can escape reality for a few hours by logging into a game (oddly, produced by those same megacorps). I just wouldn't be too surprised if you found an ad or two in there. After all, since you have proved your willingness to listen, they will talk to you.

Re:We need to put things into perspective here.

[scot4875]

And that's all well and good, but the simple fact of the matter is this: Games used to be a safe haven from this crap. Now they're not.

And I do like to visit that "outdoors" place you speak of, but I really hate the snobbish attitudes of some of the people you meet out there.

--Jeremy

Re:Interesting Idea (off-topic)

[davidmcn]

I suppose your right, stupid 120 character limit, it was on there before....atleast I thought so.

Loooosers

[mehip2001]

You people crack me up.
Wifey dressed in sexy nightgown: "Come to bed honey"
Adult male nerd play sims: "I can't..I just got the power-up"

A fun experiment...

[goldenfield]

Would be to track the credit cards of people that protest the Virtual McDonalds, and see if they ever eat at the REAL McDonalds. Then send them a letter:

Dear hypocrite:

We see you protested our Virtual McDonalds, then went and gourged on a Big Mac. Please cease and desist your bitching and moaning. That is all

Re:A fun experiment...

[caluml]

A fun experiment... Would be to track the credit cards of people that protest the Virtual McDonalds...

Hey, er, yes, I think this will work - come on all you Slashdotters moaning about this - email me your credit card details, and, er, I'll be sure to forward them on to evil.tracking.system@macdonalds.com so they can pounce should you ever buy any merchandise from one of their shops with the same credit card.
No, really, I think it's a good idea, and it'd really work - do it....

Art Imitates Life...

[quakeslut]

The author of the article wants you to take a stance against the integration of games and advertising by protesting in the online world.

Can anything make less truth?

Let's be honest: it follows logically that there would be a plethera of McDonalds in a simulation of America, because America really is over-run with fast-food resturants, advertisements, endorsements and the associated garbage.

Do you really want to make a change? Then follow these rules:
1) Don't protest within the Sim World.
This won't get you anywhere. In fact, you may wind up wasting more of your time away playing...

2) Don't support this game.
This isn't the first game to include coroprate advertising, but it has reached a new (sickening) level. SPEAK WITH YOUR DOLLARS: don't buy this game!!

3) Boycot McDonalds.
The fast-food industry's move to tie fast-food to children at an early age is well known, (they even admit it theirselves), but you don't have to stand for it. Do you REALLY want to protest? Take it to the streets in front of a real McDonalds. Talk to families... educate them.

4) Begin a letter writing campaign to EA.
Write it out by hand. Sign your name. Tell them that you refuse to buy their games until they change their policies regarding advertising. They'll get the message.

5) Support Ad-Busters.
If you don't have the time or energy to do these things yourself, then support those individuals and organizations that do. I'm not affiliated with them, but Ad-Busters (aka: the Media Corporation [Canada]) is great. You should support them.

Re:Art Imitates Life...

[NickFusion]

In reference to adbusters, check out: Food Fight

In reference to eating well:
__________________________________________________

NickFusion's Red Lentil Soup (Damn Tasy, & Healthy, too!)

1.5 Quarts Veg/Free-Range Chicken Broth

5 Cups Organic Red Lentils

2 Cups Organic Split Peas

1 Large Organic Yellow Onion, Diced

(Optional) 1 lb Free-Range Chicken Sausage

__________________________________________________

Put Broth, Lentils & Split Peas in large Soup Pot (4 Qt)

Bring to low boil, reduce heat to simmer (lowest heat, no more boiling)

Sautee onions until translucent (30%) & dump into pot

If sausage is in skin, remove from skin. Pan fry, break into bitesize morsels. Dump into pot.

Cook for about an hour, until the split peas are soft & tasty.

Salt & Pepper to taste.

You could also add Cumin, Paprika, Cayenne Pepper.

The measurements are approximate, and some people will want thicker or thinner soup.

Just keep adding water and/or broth until you like it. Soup gets thicker as it cooks.

Approximate cost: $10.00

Approximate # of servings: 18-32

__________________________________________________

Make it Sunday night, eat it all week long

(Freeze the extra for later!)

Joshua says

[agentZ]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Would you like to play a nice game of chess?

GTA3 + The Sims = SimActivist?

[omnipotus]

New from Rockstar Games: SimActivist

From the streets of the WTO riots in Seattle to the steps of World Bank in Washington, D.C., your job is to stop globalization where ever it raises its ugly capitalist head. Guide your SimActivist through multiple venues of anarchaic protests! Pickup adhoc weapons of the street like chain-link fences and road signs, or show up to rally with an arsenal of homemade fireworks.

Invoke your right to civil disobedience, buy SimActivist today!

Re:GTA3 + The Sims = SimActivist?

[smack_attack]

State of Emergency. It royally sucked too, even on a shoot-em-up/rack up body counts level of entertainment.

Re:GTA3 + The Sims = SimActivist?

[joshua404]

New from Rockstar Games: SimActivist From the streets of the WTO riots in Seattle to the steps of World Bank in Washington, D.C., your job is to stop globalization where ever it raises its ugly capitalist head. Guide your SimActivist through multiple venues of anarchaic protests! Pickup adhoc weapons of the street like chain-link fences and road signs, or show up to rally with an arsenal of homemade fireworks.

Apparently you're not aware of the Rockstar produced game called State of Emergency, where this is precisely what the objectives are.

problem? where?

[dextr0us]

I don't see a problem with this at all. Sponsorship in videogames goes hand in hand. It helps the company reduce development costs (and make money from the looks of the online world) and most people like having something real world in the game. I just don't see the problem...

So what? They're not making the game, are they?

[Polyphemis]

What's the point of this? This is Maxis\EA's game. I don't see a bunch of protest-happy little shits developing this title. What makes people think that they have the right to impose their whims and demands on whoever they want? And this in particular, they seem to be trying to decide FOR Maxis who they can and can't accept money from to fund the game (not that they'd need help).

What kind of monstrous conceit is this?

Re:So what? They're not making the game, are they?

[Chromium_One]

Conceit? I think not. Maxis/EA is developing this game not for direct personal gratificacation, but as thier livelyhood. The sell to the public for cash. They must develop something people WANT to buy. If enough people feel the in-game branding is a bad thing, Maxis/EA loses enough in sales that they would have been better off not taking McD's money in the first place.

Also I personally NOT like the concept of anyone else pushing lifestyle changes on me, even virtual changes. I'm also sure that there are a lot of people out there who would be insulted by this.

Disclaimer : I do not now, and never have been a Sims player.

Related News: Check out this EQ2 press release!

[Maul]

11/18/2002
Sony/Verant has announced their partnership with several companies to produce an extensive sponsorship program in their upcoming online RPG, EverQuest 2.

Players will now be able to interact with several name brands they can associate with in the World of Norrath.

Verant has released a preliminary list of the new features of EQ2 as follows:

All armor will be replaced with namebrand apparel. All towns in EQ2 will have an OLD NAVY store instead of local merchants, where players will be able to buy normal clothes. Additionally, apparel designed by several top fasion designers will appear in the game. Only the most uber players will be able to obtain Versace threads.

PEPSI products have replaced the mundane food and water of EQ1. Players will have to go to the in-game KFC, Taco Bell, or Pizza Hut locations to refill on rations. The in-game stores will also provide Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, and Mountain Dew rather than normal water.

Players can now earn extra experience by slaying monsters with brandname weapons.
There will be a distinct advantage using a CRAFTSMAN Power-Sword Deluxe, rather than a regular sword.

"We feel that these imrpovements add to the game," said a Verant spokesman. "In EQ1, players had a hard time identifing with the normal items in the game. In EQ2 we are bringing players into a world that is full of the brand names they can identify with. We hope to promote a lifestyle where players can consume high quality goods from companies like OLD NAVY, PEPSICO, and many others both online AND offline!"

EverQuest 2 is slated for release for fall of next year. Players will certainly be pleased to pay the full MSRP of $60.00 for the game on top of the monthy $17.99 fee with such improvements.

Re:Naked Ultima?

[stratjakt]

>> What exactly was Ultima Online's 1997 naked riot?

I wondered too.

I've seen ultima fans and find the concept disturbs me greatly.

This is a mental image I didn't need, though I imagine conceding anything to get even a half dozen UO players to put their pants back on.

The bigger danger...

[Cap'n Canuck]

...is that this will now get other gaming companies to strike deals with major corporations.

While this has obvious advantages for the more reality based games (Honda => GranTourismo, Kalishnikov => Rainbow 6), where does this leave the non-reality based games? I have yet to see a company that manufactures a really good Biorifle. And Redeemers? Fuggedaboudit!

Something to chew on.....

[poetry_in_gasoline]

It is to be noted that McDonald's profits have dropped from 12 billion pounds (24 billion American) to 7 billion pounds (14 billion american) worldwide this past year. Activists and protesters are considering this a good sign and it shows that "McFilth" is becoming less popular. I think MCDonalds is becoming concerned, thus the reason for advertising in this unusual way. Will it help McDonalds? Probobly not. But if the players of The Sims decide to raise a stink, then the developers will take a second look at what companies they want to be asociated with.

Can Someone Explain Me?

[$0.02]

OK, I haven't played the game since the original SimCity, so I don't know all the details but my question is

How do you organize (simulated) protest in Sims?

I can see where this is going...

[angst_ridden_hipster]

... it's going for Sim Realism.

Players who have Sim Protests will get their machines Sim Wiretapped.

Sim players who organize the protests of McVomit's will get slapped with Sim Product Libel suits.

Players who have too many Sim House Parties will be Sim Evicted from the Sim Neighborhood.

Players who set up affairs on Sim Hot Date will be Sim Sued for Sim Alienation of Affection.

Player who have too many Sim Vacations will be Sim Fired from their jobs for Sim Absenteeism.

Players who go on Sim Safari will get Sim Blood thrown on them by Sim PETA Protestors.

Then it'll get even worse:

The people who play "Crush, Crumble & Chomp" with their Sim world will get sent to the Sim Guantanamo Bay for Sim terrorism.

Players who allow the "incorrect" pairings on Sim Hot Date will be Sim Damned.

slashdotting != protest

[ryochiji]

I dont' think slashdotting really counts as a form of protest. In fact, if we slashdot with the intention of protesting, that might be considered a DoS attack.
Besides, even slashdotting doesn't get noticed by anyone other than slashdotters and the victim... So it really isn't nearly as noticeable as a physical crowd (even when the number of peope involved is fairly significant).

Re:slashdotting != protest

[kin_korn_karn]

Protesting and stopping traffic downtown is a DoS attack on the transportation system, but it's protected under the Constitution as a peaceable assembly.

I'll let the sub-posters draw conclusions..

Re:slashdotting != protest

[geekee]

Protesting is legal. Blocking traffic is illegal. The constitution gives you the right to free speech, but not anywhere you choose. You can't walk into my apt. with your protest without my permission, for example.

Re:slashdotting != protest

[kin_korn_karn]

yeah, because the apartment is private property and unwelcome entry on private property is trespassing. The street, parks, etc. are public property.

You are asimilated

[oliverthered]

If you spend more than 20% of your free time doing any of the following, constider yourself dead.

Eating ready meals, Junk food, Going out to resterants etc... Eating food that isn't and crafted and loveling shared.

Playing computer games.... (Trolling excluded!)

Watching T.V, Movies, Sports

Working (i.e. working out of hours).

Sitting on your ass and doingh nothing except breathing and listening to music.

Shopping in general

Shopping online is twice as bad.

Reading gossip and lifestyle mags.

Following fassion.

Protesting for the wrong reasons

[Guppy06]

If I were a Sims player (which I'm not), I'd be protesting McDonald's for the God-awful product placement crap EA is pulling, not for the reasons mentioned.

Of course, I'd probably just end up not playing any more, which is probably why I'm not a Sims player to begin with. :)

Silly

[Quill_28]

This has to be the silliest article that I have seen on Slashdot yet.

... Naked riot? :D

[Theaetetus]

History has shown gamers that online protest can result in positive change, as exemplified in Ultima Online's 1997 naked riot demanding bug fixes and server upgrades.

Naked... riot...

Um, anyone have screenshots?

-T

Mickey D's Strikes Back

[UberOogie]

McExec: We're getting some bad press about sponsoring the Sims game. What can we do?

McExecWithAClue: Quick! Post the story to Slashdot. That will take care of that protest site. Mu-ha-ha.

Kill the employees

[mblase]

It's fun and easy to kill your Sims. Make your point by targetting the corporate employees specifically.

Enough with the "recession" nonsense!

[GMontag]

My word! If our leasure society has now "advanced" to where some no longer have enough real issues to protest, now they are staging virtual protests against virtual foodstuffs.

sigh...

Something for everyone...

[pdboddy]

Yep, it's a game.

But it's a game imitating life. It's only a matter of time before someone organized online protests this way.

And you have to admit, the article is funny.

If there are enough protests, will the EA create riot police, tear gas and batons?

many of you are missing the point

[dandelion_wine]

It was pointed out much earlier but basically ignored so I'll restate. This is not simply insertion of some McD visuals into the game. It's building in reward (and by lack of rewarded behaviour, punishment) in a game that simulates modern life. I'm glad the article was posted here because until then I didn't really get the objection. Yeah, more product placement. Whatever. I don't play that Sim stuff, myself. But consider the (probably) hundreds of hours spent in the game where players take seriously the rewards and punishments dished out within. Don't bother just dissing that expenditure of time. Instead -- try understanding the effects! If we get influenced by a brief flash of one brand or another in a film (and the stats say we do), then how much more real-world influence comes when you condition behaviours to those products over hundreds of hours? Also, the article's point about the absence of an ability to protest something that IS protested in the real world makes sense to me. Only because it's a virtual community -- real people interacting. All of you would get in an uproar if they started some heavy censorship on slashdot, yet it's not the "real world" by any stretch. But silencing dissent on another virtual community -- the Sims -- is ok? For a community (slashdot) devoted to stretching our brains a little, let's question a few assumptions, people! All you guys do is dis!

Re:many of you are missing the point

[mehip2001]

All of you would get in an uproar if they started some heavy censorship on slashdot

Sure, there'd be an uproar and the site would eventualy die. Look what has happened to codeguru and devx. People didn't like the changes and simply stopped contributing to the sites.
And, people do have a say, if the don't want to be bombarded with said ads..they can choose not to play...it is simple.

Re:many of you are missing the point

[EggMan2000]

It's building in reward (and by lack of rewarded behaviour, punishment) in a game that simulates modern life. I'm glad the article was posted here because until then I didn't really get the objection. Yeah, more product placement.

That's the point of the whiole game is rampant American Consumerism (r). Upsizing your TV with your new paycheck, buying a bigger house. The more dope shit you get, the more likely you get bitches in game to get naked in your hot tub. Before you worry about McDonalds, worry about the "real" message of this game.

Re:many of you are missing the point

[dandelion_wine]

Good point, Egg! Although I suppose that these players have already bought into the premise of the game, so don't object to playing in a world bound by consumerism (oh so unlike ours).

By the way Egg, what's that?
It's a Six Demon Bag
A Six Demon Bag. Fantastic, Egg. What's in it?
Wind. Fire. All that kind of thing.

The original article is located here--

[tony_ratboy]

http://shift.com/content/web/425/1.html

In other news...

[RiscIt]

In other new, cases of carpel tunnel syndrome are on the rise as millions of online participants move their Sims avatar back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and so on, in virtual picket lines

Go Sims! Only One Problem....

[biffz0rs]

I congratulate EA and the Sims people for hooking up McDonald's cash. Who loses here? It's not like there's a kid in North America who hasn't heard of McDonalds. The burger chain evidently feels it was a good investment. I only fault EA for not hooking up Wendy's, Burger King, White Castle, etc.!!! Why didn't you guys just follow-through on this?!?

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Old School Video Game Ads

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game" for Nintendo? That game had Pizza Hut signs plastered *everywhere*. As a child, I was pissed off that my game had been cheapened by them.

Now, years later, I just wouldn't buy such a game.

Re:Old School Video Game Ads

[RockModeNick]

Yes, I remember that, I think the instruction booklet even had a "free personal pan pizza" coupon in it. Luckily, I grew up in Long Island, NY, so I knew that pizza hut was a false pizza god.

So, what's new?

[volsted]

I remeber when I was using the GT40 graphics terminal back in the 70ies they had a game called moonlander - it featured a McDonald's on the moon!

I found a link describing it - http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/g t40/ - try to grep the source referenced on the page (http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/ gt40/software/moonlander/rtlem.mac) for MACDONALD

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

"Pizza time!"

[Neillparatzo]

Who else remembers the Pizza Hut ads in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles NES game?

Point is, this is nothing new, nothing special, and certainly nothing to raise this big a fuss about.

Re:"Pizza time!"

[buckthorn]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? No advertising in that game. Nor in "Kingdom Hearts" for that matter. :)

Re:Editors should check for broken links..

[tony_ratboy]

Original article located here. Maybe their servers are more robust...
http://shift.com/content/web/425/1.html

I pity you.

[RatBastard]

I really do. I don't pay money to have ads shived down my throat. I don't like product placement in my movies, TV shows or games. Maybe it comes from living in a place where billboards are BANNED and I can actually see the world around me. Or maybe it's because I do not being treated as little more than a consumer whore bred to feed the machines.

So what?

[tswinzig]

Protesting by not purchasing fails when you can't find out about the thing you object to until after the purchase.

Yeah, well it's $10 a month for Sims Online, where the protests are supposed to be happening. These people could get a (real, not sim) life, and stop shelling out $10 a month.

Re:I understand playing a relaxing game occasional

[raduga]

But, if you are this concerned about your SIMS stats, maybe you need to quit watching simulated people with lives and get one yourself.

Might want to quit posting slashtrolls that simulate your having real-world karma, and instead go out and do something with it?

No... I suspect you don't.

You can download and play SIMS for free here

[EggMan2000]

Here is a link I found to have the CD mailed to me for free.

link
I don't plan on paying for this game either. I got this link from Ben's Bargains So read the discussion there as well.

Re:You can download and play SIMS for free here

[handsomepete]

For the record, you still have to pay for shipping ($5.00) and in a week is 'Armageddon', when everyone has everything wiped on all servers to start the 'real' cities. Then people who participate in the play test have 30 days to play before they have to start shelling out the real money for (I assume) a real version and the ~$10-$13/month to play. From experience (testing since day one), this game is a glorified chat room and blows. Hard. Don't waste your money.

Re:You can download and play SIMS for free here

[r00tdenied]

I would like yo know when and if you are still in the playtest because Maxis has already pushed back the release date several times and is still adding features to the game. It is much more than a glorified chatroom and it is somewhat realistic in the simulation of day to day human interactions. To say its a glorified chatroom is absolutely absurd.

I have been in the play test for about a week and a half and there has been a lot of features, changes, etc that have taken place to the game itself. To simply nock the game when its still very much in a beta stage is totally unfair towards Maxis and EA.

r00tdenied

Re:You can download and play SIMS for free here

[handsomepete]

I haven't stopped playing yet. I'm giving them a fair shake in my opinion, but really, glorified chatroom is too kind because at least 1/4 of the interaction involves people saying "lt, mc, ms" or "go n 3 e 4". It has about as many similarities with real life as I do with George Clooney (hint: I'm not rich, famous or popular but I am male). And it's not "still very much in a beta stage" - it's less than a month until release (12/17 still is the target and they're saying (as of last week) they intend on keeping that date unless something drastic happens). So what you're playing now is basically *the* final version without one or two options (i.e. employee and band functions - whatever the hell that's all about. Yech.)

Chat room: Group of people randomly talking about subjects that have to do with life and the world around them. Usually text based.

Sims Online: Group of people randomly talking about subjects that have to do with life and the world around them while making SimPizza or whatever the get rich quick scheme of the week is (pinata? The three-person doo-hickey?). Often, the subject of discussion is ways to make money. Graphically based.

This is fun!

[jordanda]

All you people who are saying, "If this bothers you then get a life." are missing a major point. Protesting in a virtual enviroment is fun! McDonalds has become a player in the game and players are treating it the same way they treat monsters in other games, as a villain.

I think this is a really significant case study in how people behave in virtual enviroments. There are people in the Sims Online who are protesting McDonalds who never would in real life. People are expressing their feelings about McDonalds that they never could in real life due to pesky laws about vandalism and such.

Re:This is fun!

[mehip2001]

There are no laws aginst peacfull protest and ralies. It is when people resort to vandalism that they break the laws. Besides, do you realy some stupid and violent miscreant representing a cause.

It's not just a game, it's supposed to be a sim

[Dick Click]

Ok. So it seems some people are mad about the co-branding between the Sims and McDonalds. Personally, I am more offended by the co-branding between Disney products, and McDonalds, as the Sims is supposed to be for adults.
The thing I find facinating is that Sim fans love to talk about how "real" aspects of the game are. Is not having Micky D's adding to this? I mean the game is already infused with commercialism; it's just a matter of time until all products in the Sims are branded.

Virtual Sim Protest

[toby360]

Step One:
Create a lareg "sims" family and purchase a plot of sim land
Step Two:
Create a square house with no windows, no doors and a television facing a wall thats turned on so the family can never sleep. Contact EA and eplain that your holding a family hostage in your sim-house and are protesting their McDonalds add-in.
Step Three:
???????
Step Four:
Profit~!

Re:Except that...

[martyn s]

You really don't know what you're talking about. I'm not aware of anyone who protests rats for cancer research. What people protest are scientists who do gratuitous studies, just because they want to do a study, stuff that has been tried a hundred times before. Example: testing bleach in the eyes of rabbits locked in boxes, just to gather "data" on exactly how harmful bleach is to your eyes. Then, of course, other scientists have reproduce the results, because that's what science is about. Then another group of scientists test out some other brand of bleach, you know, to gather data.

I very much understand the idea that sometimes animals have to die and suffer, and that it's an acceptable trade-off if it will save human lives. But you use that concept to immediately dismiss any claims that some of the research might be unnecessary and immoral. You should read K a href=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/- /0060011572/qid=1037736355/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-9 040435-2712769?v=glance&s=books&n=507846>Animal Liberation by Peter Singer. As the author explains, he argues that the current state of affairs is wrong based on values you most likely already accept as true. He doesn't try to give you or teach you a new set of morals, but shows that even according to your current set of morals, what is going on is wrong.

Personally, I eat meat; I am not committed enough, not yet anyway, to change my life based on the truths in the book. But most people try to justify their current habits, and I think it's important to acknowledge you're wrong, even if you're not ready to change.

It kind of reminds me of those people who dismiss anyone who is against any particular war as "naive hippies." Again, I understand the concept of self-defense, and I *do* think that people who believe that there is never need for war are naive, but that doesn't mean people who are against a particular war are all naive. Listen to what they're actually saying, instead of just giving plausible explanations for why they're likely wrong.

alliance

[mkelley]

it's sometimes good to see an alliance between geeks and nerds......

Missing the point.

[RatBastard]

Many of you are missing the point. The point is that if this goes over and no one objects then soon all of our games will be stuffed with ads and product placements. Do yuo really want to be killing imps in Nike shoes? Nazi soldiers lobbing grenades painted like Pepsi cans? Imperial storm troopers in Tommy Hifliger (SP?) pants? Penguins in Victoria's Secret lingerie (wait, I retract that last one, some of you might!)?

At what point do we say enough is enough? Are we so inundated by advertisements that we can't even see them anymore?

Where I live billboards are banned. They do not exist. Every time I go to California I am reminded of the unholy blight those damned things are. Games have been one of teh few types of entertainment I've been able to get away from the pervasive flood of advertisements and I'm resentful that these people are trying to take that away from me.

To those of you willing to put up with ads to keep the cost down I ask this: How far are you willing to let them go? Do any of you rememebr the album bu Zig Zig Sputnik (sp?) with commercials between the tracks? Is that what you want the world to be reduced to: every possible medium to be exploited by advertising? How much spam would you be willing to put up with to keep the cost of your email down?

Re:Missing the point.

[carpe_noctem]

Billboards are banned in your town? Where do you live? I'm ready to rent the moving van!

Re:Missing the point.

[buckthorn]

Well, there's a difference between an Ad and a product placement, IMHO. The ad is more in-your-face, designed to get your attention and capture it long enough to send you a message. A product placement is more subtle and, to me at least, less offensive (Return of the Killer Tomatoes excluded, of course). If done correctly, product placements can actually be useful. Since we're already aware of of the brand in real life, we have a reasonable expectation of its function in the game. As I mentioned in a previous comment, the computers all do the Intel splash-and-noise when they're turned on in the game... it's not necessarily an ad, but just.. well, they've got to be run by something.

Having said that, I've always enjoyed the product descriptions for the items... "Nothing says luxury like hand-carved mahogany, alluring brass finishings, a luxurious shine... unless it's this Chipboard dresser by GloChemCo Furnishings." I *do* sincerely hope this sort of creativity doesn't get stifled by corporate edicts.

I think this is a venue to be carefully explored. And like it has been said before, if you don't like advertising in a game, don't buy it. Vote with your dollars; That's your real power.

Re:Missing the point.

[unsung]

I have to disagree, and would say that its about time that advertisers entered the picture. I don't like ads as much as the next guy, but you have to admit that this is a way to introduce a new revenue stream. Only a large franchise like the Sims can get the process started.

Of course, you are right in that there's a lot of bad that can come from this. Talented game developers may bow to the pressures of higher authorities and create a compromising flop. Lot's of things can happen.

In time, game publishers can either distinguish themselves with a untainted work or one in which they can subsidize through other means and make less expensive to the consumers. There are lots of gray regions here too.

Note also that advertising in games is unlike spam. Spam comes at a detriment to the ISP's email server that you pay for and subscribe to. Spam COSTS US money. Advertising DOES NOT. In fact, if anything, ad revenue often saves the consumer money. Advertising in games is more like product placement in a TV show, movie, or ads in magazines.

Re:Missing the point.

[orkysoft]

Nazi soldiers lobbing grenades painted like Pepsi cans?

And those would be sponsored by... Coca Cola?

Re:Missing the point.

[WiggyWack]

First off, your examples of future ads in games are slightly extreme... Ads are also used quite often in "Extreme sports" games. Billboards and logos on skakeboards and on half-pipes, just like real life, which is also what The Sims is doing.

Secondly, ads are just a part of living in our capitalist society. Any time you have a society with choices and the expendable income to purchase things, you're going to have ads. If the only thing there is to eat in a society is gruel, you're not going to see billboards saying "Eat Gruel!" because that's all you CAN eat! And if no one has any money, you won't see ads encouraging people to sleep under a particular bridge because there's no benefit to the advertiser. Unless they charge to sleep under the bridge.

Ads work. Companies pay large amounts of money to marketers and researchers to make sure it works. If you hate ads, make a note every time you see one to NOT buy that product. If everyone did that, things would change.

But most people, like myself, don't really care. I mean, there's people dying because they have nothing to eat and yet we complain that as we speed down the highway in our personal automobiles, billboards advertising dozens of things we can choose to eat come into our field of vision. To many in this world, that's just plain stupid.

McDonald's Griefers

[Robotech_Master]

So, essentially, this writer is advocating becoming a griefer player simply because a real-life restaurant he doesn't like is showing up in the game. Even though he seems to have his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, it's still annoying.

Fortunately, TSO home owners have methods of dealing with griefers.

Huh?

[vmfedor]

If you really wanted to protest McDonald's inclusion the Sim's Online, don't buy the game. Obviously if McDonalds is advertising they get a chunk of the profit.

Plus, judging by the usual incompetence of online gamers (and this is Sims, for pete's sake), I don't think anyone will catch on.

Just my two cents, I suppose. :)

- vmfedor

Listen toTeddy...

[GreggyBUIUC]

"We demand that big business give people a square deal; in return we must insist that when any one engaged in big business honestly endeavors to do right, he shall himself be given a square deal."
- Theodore Roosevelt

Why is it that so many on Slashdot feel that when a business provides a service, that they are somehow evil for trying to make a profit at the same time? I mean, seriously, is a McDonald's food stand any worse than ads on Slashdot? (But then again, you guys bitched about that too.)

Re:Ahh, finally...

[unicron]

You'll need them all homey. If I even dip my toe in the whoring pool, I can drop out a few dozen 5's in a row. But keep the dream alive, nice to have a fan.

Someone's gotta say it

[Dalcius]

I smell lawsuit potential...

Which one of you ambulance chasing laywers is going to help me sue EA for making me think I could eat all the McDonalds and not become fat?

Maybe I should sue McDonalds for making me fat, too...

Oh, that's already been done, you say? Hm...

Re:Ahh, finally...

[unicron]

And what's also funny is that by having posted that, you lost karma, therefor becoming closer to the point where you can't moderate at all! hahaha..loser.

Another way to protest

[Kyont]

Set up a SimHMO next to your favorite McD's. Then organize some of your friends to stumble over from the restaurant, clutching their grease-laden aortas.

Then pretend to let them writhe in agony because their insurance isn't in the right network. (Health care, American-style).

It might not solve creeping corporatism, but it could be good for a larf.

Dudes, the games is called "The Sims"

[binaryDigit]

People are getting upset because the game (which is supposed to simulate "real" life, sorta) is becoming more real by having corporate presences? Just imagine how up in arms people would be if some group wanted to protest the game because it depicted sex acts ("there is just no need for such things to be in a game, it cheapens it and you never know where it's going to lead. Next thing you know they'll be having Sim kids and worse Sim Abortions, STOP THE KILLING OF UNBORN SIMS") followed of course by ("My Bits, My Choice!")

Re:Uhm... -- MOD PARENT UP!! FUNNY!!

[aeakett]

Hmmm, I would say that overrated would simply mean that the current rating is too high, even if it hasn't been modded up. Would you also say that an unmoderated post shouldn't be modded as underrated?

Ton Hawk Pro Skater X

[peel]

I find it ironic that when Tony Hawk Pro Skater started putting ads in the levels, playing mainstream music and selling soundtrack cd's for the game, no one had a problem . Now for some reason, someone puts a McDougals in a video game there's a problem. Must have somehting to do with people worried that the ones who embrace McDaniels in the game will do better than the ones that don't. Who cares if there are ads in a game. Personally I think it's a great idea, and if it works right the games should be cheaper. The fact is, people always need to complain about something. I say figure out something real to bitch about next time. -peel

i'm in the beta

[psiflare]

well i'm in the beta, and so far at least there are no mcdonalds anything. i suppose they're working on it, but since they're getting paid extra for it i would think they'd have put it in by now. the high end computers are intel pentiums, though.

Sued in real life from a gaming environment?

[Big Bad Bassman]

I read the article; note one way the author suggests that players protest:

Open your own McDonald's kiosk... Loudly proclaim how terrible your food is and how it's made from substandard ingredients... Make sure you preface each such statement with "In my opinion," to avoid libel charges.

Can someone clarify this: would those libel charges be part of the game? Surely McPuke's can't sue a real person because of comments made in a gaming environment!?!

a matter of degrees

[bigbigbison]

i'm sort of amazed at where they have decided to draw the line. after hear so much hype about the sims, i finally broke down and bought it and was amazed at how narrow the career choices were and how much it just devolved into go to work so you cam buy stuff, so that you have to go to work so that you can buy stuff. personally i found the game pretty offensive in its relentless celebration of consumerism. but once they make it overt, then you get upset?

It almost seems as if the trendy thing is to dislike corporations (or certain ones at least, I don't seem to hear much about EA's relentless whoring out of the sims franchise...) and so people complain about that rather than look at the conditions that lead to the corporations in the first place. The game is about buying things, isn't that the problem? not that you can buy mcdonalds...

Article is a little incorrect

[slideshot]

The article notes that this McDonald's object is currently in the public beta. I played the beta last night, and unless they have placed a patch in today, the McDonald's kiosk is still not in the game yet. So no real point in protesting, yet. Of course, they haven't put in any of the job modules either. So my Sim goes around and plays carnival games in order to make money for his home. He also basically lives and sleeps in the house next door which is owned by my friend. Talk about replicating real life . . .

Why do I know who Carson Daily is?!?!?!?!?

[YAN3D]

A solution many people will give would be to simply ignore the Mcdonals ads or not buy the game. The whole point of advertising and marketing is to place information into your mind subconciously. Even though you may decide to not buy the game, you know that Mcdonalds will be in the game and are discussing it right now. Its the same reason I know who Carson Daily and Brittany Spears are even though I never watch MTV or listen to Brittany Spears.

The same goes for pop up ads, we may claim to ignore them, but for that split second, your brain reads the ad and you are now aware of the advertiser's existance. (Insert Mozilla pop up stopper Joke here)This is all in hopes of swaying you to buy their product when it does come time to buy. Same goes for spammers. It costs nothing to advertise that you are offering XYZ product via email. Compare the cost of spamming to the cost to advertise to that many people on TV?

What the hell was my pont?

soon-to-be blockbuster ???

[Pebble]

Go to the EA site and read the reviews from the beta testers. Most are less than complementary.

Venting rage?

[sharkey]

That's not what we call it. Anyway, here's one way to vent your "rage" after eating McDonald's food:

• One-Cheek Sneak - Lean slightly to one side, raising one buttock marginally. Allow sphincter to relax enough allow "rage" to escape as quietly as possible. Prime purpose is venting of "rage" as surreptitiously as possible.

Re:I understand playing a relaxing game occasional

[mhesseltine]

Man, if I wasn't stuck at work on my lunch reading and posting this, I might have been offended.

In other news:

[Dark Lord Seth]

EA and McD sign another secret contract of which the contents are still unknown. Several minutes later, 80% of the playerbase of "The Sims: Online" was wiped and banned due to an "unfortunate accident". Film at 11.

sims protest idea

[jimf42]

Wouldn't the best protest be to develop a hack to the Sim's game which replaces McDonald's with the restaurant of your choice...

EA couldn't have paid for such great publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

Any publicity is good publicity, and EA's probably quite thrilled for all the attention The Sims Online is getting because of this McDonald's "controversy".

Not only didn't EA have to pay for all the publicity that they're getting from this, but McDonald's actually paid them a million dollars! They win both ways.

Complain all you want, you're just playing into their corporate hands.

Why aren't you people more concerned about the erosion of free speech, the rise of corporate corruption, and the US unilaterally picking a war on Iraq? How many of you McDonalds protesters didn't bother to vote?

Nice try!

[Anonymous Coward]

I eat at McDonalds every once in a while and enjoy it, don't get me wrong.

You had me falling for it untill you said that.

Needed: a "fat" mod

[Animats]

Now we need a "fat" mod to the Sims, so that eating at McDonald's makes them fatter, slower, less socially successful, and less employable.

all they care about is $$$$$$

[A Vengrow]

Im just surprised that it took this long to see advertisements in games. Also I think the excuse that they are using the product placement to offset the cost of the game is bullshit. Is it just me or have the prices of games has nearly doubled since about 3 or 4 years ago?

What in the hell is a mayhaps?

[pOs*x]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or something.

From someone in the current Sims Online Beta

[cln]

Actually, this is kinda a bogus story. While they may have the branding setup to appear in the game somewhere, its not there now. EA also got in a deal with Intel to brand them in the game, which IS there now. When a sim turns on a computer, the Pentium 4 logo shows on the sims computer for a moment, then it goes to him doing whatever. Gee, this sure influences me to get a P4. ;)

Even if this DOES show up in game its not going to be any different than the current hotdog stand thats there now. A sim could buy one of these and then run it charging the visitors for food to up their Food motive. Thats it. The Food motive that you have to watch can also be satisified by, a sim cooking you food, the grill, a couple different buffet tables, a vending machine, and the before mentioned hotdog stand. So whats the big deal?

Now that is truly stupid

[uncoveror]

Sims protests against imaginary McDonalds kiosks? I have to run up the B.S. flag over this one! Why not put your energies into protesting real injustice in the real world. If you have a problem with McDonalds, don't eat there, and encourage your friends not to, either. Here are some sites.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/McCracker/
http://www.openhere.com/life/activism/anti-corpora tion/mcdonalds/
http://www.communityfood.com/dir-cache/Society/Act ivism/Anti-Corporation/McDonalds/

Eat Mor Chikin

[SkreamNet]

There's yer fix.

Effective Protesting

[AllDewedUp]

So people are protesting EA's "selling out" of The Sims by... playing The Sims. Sounds effective.

That's not ther point

[mikey504]

The Sims series has always been an impressive piece of work. Evolutionary computing is a powerful tool, and you can learn about it in part by playing the game. It's a great way for kids (and adults) to learn a little about computers and also how nature works.

So if a corporation can pony up some $$$ and perturb the rules in order to favor a particular outcome (buying hamburgers == good && selling hamburgers == better) then the value of the game as is reduced from both an entertainment and from a learning standpoint.

I don't think the rules should be tweaked for anything unless it is absolutely necessary to make the game playable, and corporate sponsorship has to be the worst reason to do it.

Prefixes?

[Hormonal]

I just want to know what these comestibles are going to be called?

Does a Sim walk into a SimMcDonalds, order a 9-piece Chicken SimMcNugget (SimChicken McNugget? Wait, that's what they are now.) meal, and then SimShit his/her SimBrains out 1 SimHour later?

Hmmm...

[Fizzlewhiff]

I wonder how many people would have complained if they had chosen Hooters with their busty waitresses over McD's?

In some games, product placement provides added realism. I think McD's and Sims is a good mix. If it were McD's and Star Wars Galaxies I could see a reason to complain.

Sims protests not really going to work...

[Mantrid]

Not that this issue is important in any way - but given the nature of how Sims Online is going to be structured, online protests aren't going to matter.

Each user will control their own area. If you're annoying them or their guests they'll kick you and possibly ban you.

There is no account banning as I understand it - you'll just keep getting banned by various people if you're annoying enough...I suppose in theory eventually you'll have no where to go but your own area.

But really the only story here is that there are people out there that find this something worth getting upset over...

The Most Important Issue Of Our Times

[Anonymous Coward]

That The Sims would have a McDonalds in the Sims world is an absolutely abhorrent thing! The damage that it does to our children and our society, not to mention our lawns and bandwidth, is totally unacceptable. Something must be done!

That the U.S. might become an aggressor nation and attack a weak and irrelevant country like Iraq means nothing compared to this. The assault on privacy rights due to Ashcroft and his Homeland Security Act pales in comparison to the horror of a McDonalds in the Sims. Corporate corruption, billions of dollars being stolen from U.S. citizens, Dick Cheney's complicity in the Halliburton affair, the torturing of prisoners of war in a U.S. run prison camp in Cuba - Yawn! Only a moron would waste his time protesting about such trivial and meaningless issues.

NO MCDONALDS IN THE SIMS!

Who's missing the point?

[Malkin]

What I find funny about this whole argument is that rampant consumerism has always been a major theme in "The Sims." There's a cheerful, optimistic 1950's-like fetish for household appliances. Just look at this game. It's all about the accumulation of material wealth. I need a better sofa. I want a food processor. Why don't I get the bigger TV?

Among the cynical, chintzy fake brand-names, the humerous product descriptions, and the never-ending pursuit of money, so you can buy more things, product placement, frankly, fits right in. In fact, if anything, I'd say that it's an ideal venue for it!

Re:Who's missing the point?

[j4im]

I'd mod you up for this if I could. Good point!

Why complain now when Pepsi is already there.

[bons]

It's probably been mentioned, but the Pepsi machine, complete with Pepsi products is already in the game. Why are you getting all upset now?

Re:Naked Ultima?

[Zapateria]

Hey! I play Ultima Online and I'm pretty damn hot!


I'm living a lie.

They DID tell everyone about McD AND INTEL!

[Blackwulf]

They announced the McDonalds advertising several months ago when the deal was struck.

They also announced that you can buy INTEL computers in the same vein that you can buy McDonalds hamburgers. Computers powered by Intel processors give you better stats as well.

Perhaps we should also boycott them for advertising Intel?

It's not as bad as y'all think.

[Blackwulf]

Since I was in the playtest of the game, I can safely say the following things about this.

I never saw a McDonalds kiosk anywhere I played. The deal was announced several months ago, and I saw it in the game, but it was too expensive for me to put in my house.

There ARE other places to eat. You don't have to eat at the McDonalds, and you don't have to put one on your property. A generic buffet table is just as good and much cheaper.

INTEL IS DOING THE SAME THING. You can buy a computer with Intel Inside and it gives you much better stats than a lower-end computer. Your "fun" goes up quicker when you play games on it and your "Logic" goes up quicker when you're studying on it.

So, if you're gonna go after McDonalds for being available, might as well go after Intel for the very same reasons.

This is brilliant.!

[HughsOnFirst]

I think this is a hook to make the Sims more interesting.

My kids just get them to fall asleep while cooking and set themselves on
fire, which isn't nearly as subversive as this.

Most of these games bore me out of my mind, but this sounds like fun.
Organize communist cells, spy on each other, denunciations.

Man those guys at E.A. are brilliant.

Re:This is brilliant.!

[rEWDBOi]

>spy on each other, denunciations..

Are you saying that you get to play as a postal worker, bus driver or cable guy in this game?
Man, looks like the not-yet-founded Office for Homeland Security (note the caps) is another major sponsor.

Re:This is brilliant.!

[HughsOnFirst]

I was thinking more of the McCarthy eraHouse Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) , or the FBI's COINTELPRO
Of course the entertainment industry selling out it's artists, to gain favors from the government and the government breaking the law to in order to uphold the law is realy a 50's and 60's thing, and went out with the Nixon administration, right ?

Do the ads make it cheaper?

[DoctaWatson]

God forbid I pay for something and not have to deal with it ramming advertisements down my throat.

If they wanted to offer the game for free or even dirt cheap, ads would be acceptable.

I think it's a great tie-in...

[Anonymous Coward]

...provided the sims become obese, have to ride around in Rascals, and have virtual heart attacks. Maybe they should link the McD's chains to a mu-mu chain. Just waddle next door to pick the latest fashions for people who literally roll out of bed.

Uh, hello?!? Ads in games isn't new

[Torgo's Pizza]

In case you haven't noticed, ads in video games or video games serving as advertisments isn't a new thing. This has been going on for nearly 20 years.

To the Chicken Littles on this issue, where were you when ads were placed in Pole Position? Where's the outrage in the fact that Gran Turismo is simply a advertising tool of auto manufacturers? Where are the boycotts of 7-Up for creating the Spot game? Should I stop buying Madden 2K3 because both John Madden and the NFL endorses the product? Should I protest that Tony Hawk 4 features brand name skateboards and products?

I don't see anyone complaining that some video games use cheat codes of brand name products. Has the gaming experience diminished from having "Winners don't do drugs" on arcade games? Seriously, has all this really tarnished your video game experience? The reality is that most of you don't even give all the product placements that are already inside the game a second thought.

Re:Upon closer inspection....

[unicron]

You just basically posted that you misuse your moderation points, which with one email is rectafied. You're new at this whole stalking thing, aren't you?

Re:I agree with the crap part

[_xeno_]

I try to, but I've been with people who have not yet awoken to the fact that Wendy's is probably the pinacle of American fast-food burger joints. (As in, only fast-food joint that had someone recognizable as human at the front and better quality burgers than BK or McDs. Fries always suck. I'm sure they're evil too, but they're probably less evil. Or were. :))

I originally had a comment in my original post that eating a Big Mac was just like eating a can of dog food with iceburg lettuce, mayo, and ketchup - but I removed it, since enough other people were lambasting Mickey-Dees.

But I suppose there can never be enough people attacking the arches :)

Of Course Eating McDonalds increases your stats!

[Prien715]

To prove this, I began eating nothing but McDonald's food for the past month. And had an increase in many statistics!
* Weight -- I went from weighing a pittly 175 to weighing a healthy 350! That's a stat increase of 200% go McDonalds!
* Running time -- Before I began the all McDonalds diet, I could run a mile in 6 minutes. The McDonalds diet increased my running time by well over 20 minutes!
* Cholesterol -- Eating McDonalds food dramatically increases your cholesterol intake!

So, for any of those nay-sayers, I think I have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that McDonalds food does INDEED increase your stats!

You and every other game designer

[spun]

I had this idea, too. Role playing in a modern world, with a sci-fi twist. Make money selling billboard space in-game with links to the web. Have clothes and accessories from major labels. Let people buy real world items in game, make the manufacturers pay for the privelege. Best thing is, you won't need to hire as many artists: the manufacturers would have to create their own graphics, then pay you to put them in the game!

I talked with some of my friends in the gaming business. This is a common train of thought these days.

At Last the Perfect Avenue For Real Geek Protests

[cranos]

I can just imagine it, the million geek march through Sims-Online, all the fun of protesting without actually having to get off your arse. Perfect.

Aren't movie games already ads???

[samdu]

You made thecomment about Stormtrooperd in Hilfinger, but you've missed your own point. If we say away with the ads in games what you'd get would be:

Generic space game (Star Wars is a cash cow, wouldn't want the evil Lucasfilm corporation or Fox to tarnish the purity of our space gaming!).

Can't license real players or equipment for sports games, either, so no Madden, NFL2Kx or NBA2Kx.

The Gran Turismo series would not have "real" cars or accurate tracks or the accurate advertising on said cars and tracks. Nope. Fantasy cars and tracks only and plain walls. No Enkei wheels either.

GTA Vice City would have to drop those '80s songs as well. All new generic music to set the tone for a decade.

Advertising and tie-ins actually accentuate the realism in certain games. There has been advertising in games for a while now. This smells of issues with McDonalds (and maybe globilization) than with advertising in games. If that's true, then the protestors don't have a chance of making any difference because a) there simply aren't enough of them and b) IT'S VIRTUAL!!!! No one's going to notice a few crackpots whining in an online game (that apparently they bought and pay for anyway - you have to be in the game to protest the Mickey D's in the game - bizarre).

Re:Aren't movie games already ads???

[Belgand]

These are completely different in so many ways it almost makes me feel physical pain.

Essentially the point in those games is to add to the experience in some way. People want to imagine themselves piloting beating the hell out of Ewoks, playing as their favorite sports players or teams, driving accurate cars on the same tracks they've seen before, and hearing "Billie Jean" on the radio and remembering when Michael Jackson was black. These are all fantasy situations where realism helps to extend the fantasy by adding realistic or familiar elements aiding the suspension of disbelief.

The Sims is about fantasy real life though. The world is made uncomforably real by the addition of these things. Instead of helping to suspend disbelief we recall the last time we ate a greasy, disgusting (why do they have to put ketchup and mustard on burgers by default? It's like enabling messenger to auto by default... who would really do that normally?) food product. Hell... maybe you like them, but do you want your Sim to be able to do the exact same things you could be doing right now? Probably not. You want your sim to be getting into interesting and exotic situations far away from reality. By incorporating reality you destroy part of the illusion that they're doing something fun and make them a reflection of yourself... not the fantasy you, but the real you.

So on one hand advertisements and licensing can benefit games by adding reality to a fantastic situation more firmly cementing you in the fantasy. On the other hand it can detract from the fantasy by reminding you of reality. Compare what Kubrick did in "2001" (paying to use PanAm and other current brands to lend realism) to product placement in "Die Another Day" where the companies pay to plug products and remove the fantastic into the realm of the mundane.

Great. What's Next? Starbucks?

[Dolemite_the_Wiz]

This has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Perhaps I can start a Sopranos Gang in the Sims Online Universe ans squeeze protection money out of the Chain owners.

Re:Improves what stats? [the FRIES]

[caveat]

Anyone else think McDonalds fries are crap?

no, actually i *know* they aren't crap. they're Sysco natural-casing shoestring-cut 100% idaho fries (yes, sysco is mcDs supplier) - really a very high quality product. and i happen to think mdDs fries are the greatest ever, bit i don't go for big meaty steak fries...i LIKE small crunchy greasy salty potato sticks, withOUT that hideous coatink BK uses. wendy's area touchthick, but otherwise OK. Checkers fries *0wn*, but they're spiced so they're in a whole 'nother category.

NOT that simple

[Mitreya]

I am pretty sure that this has been discussed on slashdot and elsewhere. This story is not as simple as you think... see this link. A judge is often (if not always) a more qualified and objective party when any of us.

McDonalds maintained an *unsually* high temperature for optimal coffee taste that could (and did) cause third degree burns. Other vendors maintain *lower* temperature, that can still cause burns but not to such great extent.

Re:NOT that simple

[Trilless]

"A judge is often (if not always) a more qualified and objective party when any of us."

While a judge may be more qualified to interpret the law than the average citizen,no one is ever objective, unless they lived in a bubble without sensory stimuli. That has been proven impossible; hence,we are all objective to some degree based upon our own personal experiences, prejudices or things we hear from trusted sources.
Aside from new evidence appearing in a case, there would be no need for an appeal process if judges were truly objective.

This is what happens when Grimace and DonaldTrump

[vandelais]

meet behind closed doors.

"You're quiet. I like that."

This is the first instance of product placement

[complexmath]

in a computer game. How this is handled may well affect the computer game market as a whole. You may not care about sims eating branded cheeseburgers, but what if Id's next big game is called "Doom 3: Bob's Big Boy vs. the Big Mac Attack?" Commercials are bad enough in TV and radio, and product placement in movies gets pretty bad at times. I fear the day when computer games fall victim as well.

I wonder if...

[SlimFastForYou]

McDonalds employees like me get employee discounts at the virtual mcdonalds?

Right..

[ThePhreaker]

Is this article a joke...? Why not just not buy the game instead of paying them 14.95 a month to protest...

Re:Right..

[cookiepus]

I totally agree with you. Who's going to care about your virtual protests when they are getting your real cash?

And also, if the idea of a McDonald's bothers you so much that you will waste your time petitioning against a virtual one, who will give a shit? At least have the conviction of picketing outside an actual franchise.

Paying money for the product and picketing outside an imaginary franchise is just about the stupidest thing imaginable. It's just about the opposite of a boycott because you're giving your money to one company, and aren't putting a dent in the profits of the other!

Re:Uh, hello?!? Ads in games isn't new

[forkboy]

Yeah, but you're forgetting that it's hip to hate McDonalds. It makes people feel better about themselves to protest a virtual fast food restaurant, thus placating their instinct to look out for the welfare of others (or their guilty conscience) without actually having to get off their fat asses and protest something that matters. (like war, big oil, insurance and pharmaceutical company abuse of the poor and elderly, racial profiling, or excessing imprisonment of drug law violators)

In other words, welcome to middle class america, where people need to feel righteous without actually standing for something.

Re:We have to Support This!

[Herkum01]

It was supposed to be a joke, but evidently someone took a disliking to it.

What's the problem?

[geekee]

I don't see a problem with virtual McDonalds in the Sims as long as the benefits and drawbacks from eating at McDonalds for your sim in the Sims reflects reality.

But what I'm wondering

[inkswamp]

I'm wondering if it's possible in The Sims to create a character who protests McDonalds without the mandatory stick shoved sideways up the sim's ass. I like playing these characters because they seem to have lots of time on their hands and they never seem to need jobs. On top of that, they seem to have no problem with the hygiene rating being persistently low. That's great, but the stick thing poses quite a problem. Does anyone have any hacks or mods to The Sims that would allow this or is this simply too unrealistic for me to expect?

Don't protest...

[Vegan Pagan]

Vote with your dollars!

Want to know how to protest it?

[WiggyWack]

Here's an idea... Don't play the game. Nothing speaks louder than your wallet.

Re:Want to know how to protest it?

[tolkarovers]

i agree completely. the games industry is one industry where we are still able to stop it from being corrupted. DONT BUY THE GAME. get everyone you know to email EA and say they would be buying the game if it wasn't for the mcdonalds (scum) thing. boycott all EA games.

Hardees sucks ass

[WiggyWack]

Hardees is nasty. I had a "shake" there once that was warm, yet it still managed to keep the proper shake consistency. Creepy.

Virtual Protesting

[Catnapster]

If any of the developers of The Sims are reading this, I have a recommendation.

Let players give their Sims signs.

That way, the people who want to really protest things, can... and I tell you, I'd buy the game just to march around with a sign saying "All Your Base Are Belong To Us." Yes, All Your Base jokes are overdone, but marching around, chanting, "ALL YOUR BASE! ARE BELONG TO US!" Imagine the possibilities for annoying the shit out of your online buddies!

I don't pity you.

[firebee]

I really don't. I don't think a person needs to be pitied if they just have a different sense of aesthetics from me. Personally, reading this article makes me think of dusting off my copy of Sims. Virtual protestors of the virtual McDonalds? It's more interesting than peeing on the carpet, for sure!

And corporate whore? Wouldn't that be more of a corporate john? Anyway, if McDonalds really doesn't care any more about me than whether I'm buying a hamburger or not (I'm crushed!), that's fine. It's not like I care about them on a deep, personal, non-provider-of-hamburgers level either.

Re:So if you think that games influence the gamer

[dandelion_wine]

I don't give a damn who advocates it. Let's evaluate the ideas and the data and forget about the names, shall we? Ad hominem mofo.

What if you were shown data that demonstrated that exposure to violence resulted in a statistically significant (that usually means very small) increase in violent behaviour? Of course, that wouldn't be me because I have free will, blah, blah, blah blah blah. Well sorry, buddy. We are all conditioned creatures, conditioned constantly. Just because we can't connect all the dots doesn't mean the lines aren't there. Yes, I have seen kids trying to be some Street Fighter character in the schoolyard. Just because you're impervious to human nature, doesn't mean the rest of us are so lucky.

Yes, I've played violent video games. Lots of em. I've watched violent movies. Lots of em. How many people have I killed? None. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. Was I a borderline case? Has my behaviour been influenced rather than radically changed? Is violence more intellectually/emotionally an option than it would have been without the exposure? Try asking the difficult questions instead of knocking down straw men.

Re:Not quite

[martyn s]

The reason why you see this phenomenon mainly among the middle- (and upper-) class is because of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. People who *haven't* grown up pampered have their own concerns to worry about, and therefore they cannot concern themselves with other peoples or less important problems. You should be thankful for people like this, because without them the world would never improve.

sure, blame Mcdonalds, rather than the real culpri

[Shadowlore]

Children may be more susceptible, but they don't have money. If their parents had backbones, they wouldn't be getting the hapy meals, now would they?

Targeting children in advertising is pointless if parents don't buy the product being advertised.

apt-get common-sense

[Duds]

of course.