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The Best Colleges for Network Engineering?
viperstyx asks: "Ive come to that time in my life where I have to choose what colleges im going to apply to for my undergraduate degree. I'm very interested in Computer Science but I'm not sure if I want to major in Comp Sci, but I do have a high interest in networks. I hope to work on things like Internet2, or in a large business environment after college. I was hoping to find a college with a major, along the lines of Network Engineering, but I have yet to find one." What colleges have the best programs to prepare prospective networking engineers for the future?
You also forgot to add the part about the female to male ratio being 3:1 or so in your story... Just thought I'd be the first to correct your mistake. :)
Although i have not attended i think Colorado Technical in Colorado Springs is a very good school. They have an awesome course from what it looks like.
It's about your own networks. People from unknown schools get onto interesting projects becuas hey know who's running them.
Get networking... with humans.
All you need is experience, alot of online resources for OIS, but get your hands on experience with a 3550, 4500, 6500, 7200 (from cisco) get a CCNA... A Dergee in Net Eng is useless if youve never actually implimented a network or worked with a network. Book smarts does not cut it with network engineering.. you need practical experience with both physical (wiring) and software (ois or what have you)... Nick D
Home Sweet Home Linux
Sounds more to me like you want advanced IT. All these people getting IT confused with engineering, pisses me off. Like with the Computer Engineering article, first modded post complained about IT outsourcing...whiners.
RIT? I like the EE program, and a lot of CS students I know like it here.
Study CS in undergrad. Wait until Graduate School to specialize.
Badass Resumes
...we're all about the Internet2. As far as major, I odn't know that any of our undergrad curricula cover that type of thing, but we have the School of Information, which is a graduate school with tons of IT-type programs and the like.
Hope you're in-state though, 'cuz Michigan is the most expensive public university in the nation. And for some reason we're proud of this. Sheesh.
El riesgo vive siempre!
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
I've heard Carnegie Mellon University is the shizzle. I applied and didn't get in, therefore they must be pretty damn good.
Right from the Internet2 website: list of lead Universities working on Internet2.
If your true to what you like to do, do it, even if the boat is already full. People that like IT for what it is will do better then most who are there to make a quick buck.
-Kilka
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -Chomsky
Nowadays it would be very much to your benefit to be a jack of both trades (programming and networking) and master of a few more. You may want to look into colleges that have good CS programs and then either tackle networking on the side (start w/ CCNA or something), or see if you can get a job working with the university's networking department. Best way to learn networking is hands-on anyways.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, has a good network engineering track. Dr. Tom Dunigan, who also is involved with high performance networking/computing/security at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, is a big draw. SNMP was born at UT as well, where Dr. Jeff Case is known to make the occasional appearance when not running SNMP, Inc.
Not that I know anything, but this applies to everything: experience is vital. Go out and do consulting work to get your hands wet. If you know absolutely nothing start off in tech support somewhere - you will learn very quickly. I don't know about what employers are looking for, but I believe that experience would be way more valuable than a bunch of theory that you may have learned from some junior college prof.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, go into business for themselves.
Not to troll, but is that really a college-level degree? Unless by "work on things" you mean "analyze and design your own version of," I think a trade-school level degree, or some sort of MIS, plus the appropriate certifications might be your thing.
However, by sheer virtue of the fact that you "made it" through a more in-depth degree such as CS or Computer Engineering, you'll open yourself up to wider options, and possibly a higher pay. These degrees mean that, in addition to the basic knowledge, you're capable of handing large, complicated projects (if you have a good Capstone program at the school you look at) and have good problem-solving skills, things that aren't, necessarily, taught at a trade-school or 2-year level institution.
Of course, I'm biased as I'm about 3 months from finishing my B.S. Comp. Engr, and 1 year, 3 months from finishing my M.S. Electrical Engr (Yay, 5-year program!).
Posted Anonymously to protect the names of the (not so) innocent.
I really don't feel you have to focus on exclusivity to Network Engineering. I feel that most schools with programs in Network Engineering are not the most recognizable. I suggest you focus on a CS degree or a computer engineering degree. If you perform well in either of these fields you should be able to land almost any job in the industry. Recruiters look at your college record and see what kind of person you are based on your grades, difficulty of classes, and experience gained. The actual information learned is rather insignificant to the kind of person you are.
you don't join ChugaLug house and you'll be fine.
That internet2 looks promising it was a good read.
http://slow4cyl.org
I've heard that UoB, University of Bangalore, offers excellent training, and good job placement;)
They have the entire range of Cisco certification classes.
You also may want to consider something in telecommunications as that covers a lot of networking as well.
And then you can still apply for work outside of IT.
I suggest you go with the college/CompSci degree, then spend another 6 months to a year in a certification-type place getting things like A+, Network+, Cisco basic certs, and some linux/unix sysadmin basic certs (the latter cause most linux/unix sysadmins know networking a lot better than most MCSE types since they are network-centric OSs from the get-go). And depending on where you go to college, many colleges let you take tests for *life experience*, so if you got some network-related certs while in college, you might be able to have them credited and not spend as much time.
What country are you in??? Are we all supposed to guess like idiots and maybe assume USA?
Well, check Prism-Tech College in Afganistan cause I think you're from there.
If you have roadblocks in your life, Devry will help you move them out of your way. On the other hand, you might need to be two people: One to work and one to go to school. But a Devry you can work during the day and go to school at night. And get a bachelors in just 3 years!
I think college, in fact, is overrated in a lot of ways, putting yourself 60K in debt is not worth it. I'd recommend a cheap state school if possible, or community college for the first two years of college. Keep in mind, a lot of people change their minds after two years in college, and decide they want to do something else (or may just not like the field).
Moreover, I think technology is becoming extremely competitive. Better to try a field like nursing or maybe look for something in biotech.
In any case, if you want to do something in technology, be prepared to study hard and keep learning, tech is one of those fields requiring constant reeducation to maintain an edge.
I hear UAF has a pretty good program. At one point, throught internet II, they had the fastest throughput in the world. But that's since been shattered many a times. Plus i've heard they want to put largert server farms on the north slope, powered by they abundant natural gas from the oil drilling for exceptional power backup availabilty, and the fact that it's not too hard to cool up there in the winter, just keeping it warm would be the problem
"This is you left and that's your left. This is your right and that's your right. You're gonna die!
I think you are going about it the wrong way..or at least misapprehend what colleges teach. The first two years of your course work is going to be the same as the guy majoring in underwater basket weaving, or worse economics. If you want to learn about cutting edge tech in a college setting - join a club, go to work at one of the computer labs, take an internship with some tech company but for god sakes don't think you are going to learn anything worthwhile/cool by sitting in a lecture with 150 other people while a graduate student goes over the professors lecture (if you manage to see a professor before your third year in a science based class consider yourself honored). I've met a lot of smart tech people and with the exception of those educated outside the USA, none of them learnt any of their tech skills as part of a college course.
Pyrmaid scheme o
I would definetly suggest checking out US News. They have an awesome website, in regards to "rankings" of the U.S. top schools and such, and they have them separated by degree and "rankings". While this may not be THE DEFINITIVE answer, it is certainly a step in the right direction. . .
YOU'RE WINNER !
Another lame blog
Moderate as Troll or Funny; Your choice.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Go to a good college with a good CE or CS program. There are many classes that will teach you the theory behind networking, and some of the practical aspects. Then get sucked into a networking job administering routers. After a few years you'll have everything you need to know about it... namely that it's not 'fun.' The CE or CS degree will get you a ticket to any job if you do actually find out that networking isn't what you want, and if it is then those two degrees will prepare you for a good go at the field.
I suspect that a CE degree is slightly better in this field since networking involves dealing more with hardware related issues than strictly software (which is all that CS really prepares you for). The theory you learn will be invaluable.
-Adam
The University of California Berkeley is an all around great school for computer and engineering related fields. Although, when I went there I didn't major in CS or EECS, many of my friends graduated from those programs, and then went onto jobs dealing with networking technologies.
You don't have to pick a major for 3 years. You won't have to pick your critical courses for "job training" till your senior year. 12 years from now you will find out what you should have done.
Technology will have changed in 2 years, but it won't even be recognizable in 10.
Whatever you specialize in may be obsolete before you graduate.
Take a tip from Maurice Clarrett, make sure you get an education while you are at school.
Caltech, SLAC, and LANL Set New Network Performance Marks
Devry Institute.
Don't specialize yet. Do Comp Eng/Sci at MIT. Not even because they're probably the best school for most technology-related things. If you can make it through MIT, you're studious enough to make up for any potential failings of the school itself.
and no, I didn't get in. Proceed to poke fun.
Don't count on any "famous" universities. Your best bet for networking is a community college or DeVry where you can get your certificate. Otherwise expect a degree in IS where you won't learn technical skills but how to be a pointy-haired manager of engineers.
I'm just about finished Communications Engineering at Carleton University. If it's really a professional engineering design degree that you're after, and not somethign with more of a technological slant, it's definitely the way to go. It was the first Comm Eng program in Canada (I'm in the third batch to graduate this year), and there's a strong batch of professors in the field. It also helps that Ottawa is 'Silicon Valley North'. Nortel headquarters is here, and various Alcatel and JDS plants, etc. Not to mention all the local start-ups.
We cover everything from distributed network programming, to coding techniques, to circuit design, to protocol implementation, to allocating resources for quality of service. It's great, once you get past all the math and science at the beginning. Introduction to Communications Software was my favourite course ever.
There's an internet2 now?
You should go to DeVry University. They have a big lineup of programs including Network and Communications Management and Network Systems Administration .
An important thing to check out is to see what things you can work on outside of the core curriculum. See if there are any jobs at the school or if the school sponsors work at local businesses.
When it comes to getting a job its much better to have anecdotes about a network you ran rather than only knowing theory. An interviewer is interested in what problems you have run into, troubleshooting process, and how you applied your schoolwork to come up with a solution.
I'm not sure I quite understand the point of network eng. as a stand-alone major. Network Engineering, while high in demand, very important and very difficult, does not seem to be the type of job where an academic college degree would be best suited. The poster seems like he is looking for a school that will teach him how to set up and run major network infrastructure and I'm not sure college degree programs are going to be set up to specifically train that. You will get a lot of the required problem solving skills as a CS Major, but as for how to setup and configure Cisco routers, those skills would be better served via a technical school, trade school or apprentice type system. College is more apt to teach students how to come up with efficient networking algorithms and solutions rather than how to construct, deploy and maintain a network. EE Majors largely do not learn how to deploy and maintain electrical wiring in a building, those skills, while very difficult and important, are just not normally taught at college. College may still be the right choice, but think of college as a broad education on problem-solving and critical-thinking rather than a place to specifically teach skills. Skills are easy to acquire by those that have had rigorous training in critical-thinking. I'd focus on the CS Majors or ISE Majors. After a couple years, you will have the opportunity to jump into some really great research areas that fit your interests.
If you think that your college efforts are for the sake of a better job and not for a better understanding of the world around you, then you're missing out. Really.
Consider spending your time studying as an undergraduate on literature, history, philosophy, political science, mathematics, an investigation of human happiness (Aristotle called this ethics), biology, astronomy or a cogent combination of these and other topics.
If it's job preparation you want, it's job preparation you'll get. That's all.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
I do not agree with this, if you plan to keep moving up you will need a four year degree, and if it's in networking all the better. Schools I would look at are RIT (IT program) Fort Hayes State University in Nebraska (INT program) and the University of Wisconsin Stout Telecommunications Systems program.
I am currently in my last semester at UW-Stout in the Telecom Sys program, at least here I can vouch for getting hands on real world experiance on a variety of networking gear and protocols, a mix of old and new similar to what you might find at a business.
I go to Murray State University in Western Kentucky and they have a good Telecommunications Systems Management program there. Its a BS degree with some emphasis in business management, some CS classes and networking classes.
IMHO the best preparation available (in the context of an undergraduate degree) would simply be a solid program in Computer Science. There are lots of fundamentals to be learned... complexity theory, distributed systems, etc. Once you have a solid grounding in Computer Science you will still need to learn the hands-on material of network engineering ("What do I do with this Cisco thingy?") but you will be at a significant advantage. If you want to work on cutting-edge stuff an academic background is essential.
Forget Hitech - become a lawyer or auto mechanic
Cisco certs? I know CCIEs looking for work ( I
interviewed 2 for a job posting). Go into medical
profession - baby boomers are around the corner.
In the same vein, drug companies are booming.
If you are interested in Internet2, you could talk to any of the schools who connect and try to start working as a student worker in their networking groups. A specific one to try would be contacting IU and, in addition to school, try to talk to the group that works on the Internet2 NOC and see if they need student help.
Any experience you can get in school in networking will be positive. As an added bonus, if you are good you might be able to get a job full time with those groups when you graduate.
The way things are going, I will not endorse my profression "computer engineering" to my kids.
I will suggest to them that they find their true talents and follow that path. (As I think every parent should.)
The bottom line is that the best among us don't always do the best (by objective measurement). The cliche "nice guys finish last", ain't for nothing.
I am doing ok, in life, but sheesh... I lost my train of though.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Landlord's are not often outsourced.
University of Wisconsin - Stout is where I went to school. I was not in this major, but I heard good things.
B.S. in Telecom
I majored in Applied Math & CS.
This may come across as a conservative approach, but keep in mind that I am an academic and when it comes to education we are expected sometimes to think conservatively. Thus I say to you:
Building strong foundations on the conceptuals and the foundations of computing is extremely important. You need a good grounding in mathematics, logic, and systems. This is something that you'll get if you majored in CS or math. CS is obviously preferrable.
Once you have a good understanding of the underlying principles you'll be ready to embark on a more challenging adventure in exploring Networks and Computer Engineering. You may do so by pursuing a research MS degree or even going for the PhD if you are up for 4-5 years living below poverty :)
It is easier to do good work in CE coming from CS than the other way around. Here's an example, that deals with databases. Most CEs working on databases are trying to tweak SQL interpreters and compilers in order to get an extra 1-3% performance. This is great. But a CS researcher will be looking at new concepts of querying rather than overengineering an existing paradigm (relational databases have been around for over 30 years and are over-engineered by now).
If you are interested in doing good work in CE your BS will not be enough, unless you are one of these gifted people who can find a great job at a major research lab (e.g. TJ Watson) and learn the research ropes fast. For the rest of us, an MS or a PhD program is necessary and quite beneficial. That's why I suggest that you focus your undergraduate studies in getting the fundamentals right (through studying CS or Math). You'll have plenty of opportunity to focus on engineering or other interesting aspects as you consider graduate school eventually
Now as to where to go, it depends on your mobility and ability to secure funding. The top math and CS departments are at schools with rather expensive tuition. Yet, there are state schools with great programs that will enable you to apply to top graduate programs when the time comes.
I hope this helps a bit. If you need more info, feel free to write to me.
http://www.uwire.com/content//topsports020504001.h tml
From someone who is self made so to speak in the computing field, don't get a degree in networking. It is in a way a dead end. Most of what you learn in school will be almost obsolete by the time you graduate. Get a degree is MIS or a related field, technology managment, Information Systems Management , ect. Because while it is fun to be a tech for a while eventually you will want to be the boss and for that you will want a degree that mixes tech and buisness/management.
Indiana University ( 2 to 1.5 female to male ratio) has a pretty good MIS degree through their business school.
Disclosure: I am a CS professor (in comp bio, not networking), and my department (WUSTL) is well-known for networking-related research.
If you want to get into stuff like protocol design, routing architecture and algorithms, and the other "guts" of designing and building high-speed networks, consider a CS or Computer Engineering degree. Besides the obvious courses in networking per se, you will have the opportunity to study algorithms relevant to the area (e.g. minimum spanning tree, network flows, suffix trees and other fast string matching methods for routing tables); hardware design (for building gigabit-and-up routers and other cool network gear); and design of large software systems, including the principles behind distributed systems like the DNS and peer-to-peer networks.
Depending on where you go and what your interests are, you can also bone up on the underlying math (e.g. queueing theory for protocol design) and maybe even some physics/EE (signal propagation, etc).
Yes, you can probably work your way to a strong practical knowledge of how to build a network, and getting your hands dirty is essential to success. However, the point of a CS degree is (1) breadth in computing fundamentals, which I hope I've persuaded you are relevant to networking, and (2) quickly getting up to speed on how to *think* about networks, independent of any particular protocol or hardware standard.
Oh, and speaking of getting hands dirty... if you go to the right place, you might be able to get on board a networking-related research project!
Expensive, maybe. But should the most expensive tuition you buy for network engineering yield this [www.si.umich.edu]?
(from their web site):
The School of Information's main web site is temporarily unavailable as of Friday, February 6th, 2004 at 5:05 p.m. This outage is the result of a hardware failure, and we are working with the vendor to solve the problem as quickly as possible. We expect this outage to last through Sunday, February 8th, 2004. We hope for a resumption of normal service on Monday, February 9th.
Other services affected include access to Selma file shares.
We appologize for the inconvienience of this unexpected outage. Our team is working on resolving the problem as quickly as possible.
I have been down this path.... My suggestion is this:
1. Go to a large university, they have the most interesting campus networks and will have the latest technology.
2. Pick a major, any major.
3. Get a job working for the networking group as a student employee.
I went this route, and I have not looked back. I learned a great deal about everything from ISDN to OC-48 SONET connections. But the key is a large university. You will also find you have alot of chances to play with the equipment and get some valuable experience. I learned basic Cisco knowledge on a 12008 GSR (carrier class, $300K router). You wont get a chance to do that anywhere else. Just my 2 cents.
Va Tech, UMBC
Check out their Master of Science in Internet Engineering program.
David Cole
www.davidcole.net
I would have to agree with some of the other posts... Get an undergrad degree in CS or perhaps IT (I'd recommend CS) and then specialize in graduate school.
::thinking to self::...Maybe I should have gone to MIT...
Depending upon how good your existing skills in CS are (I'm talking about mostly programming and general computer knowledge), I can recommend NJIT as a recent (2 weeks ago) BS in CS graduate. If you happen to live somewhere near the NYC metro area, it's not a bad education if you go in with a good background and don't mind teaching yourself when you can't understand the profs (that happens at most tech schools from what I hear). I thought it was rather easy but then again I started really programming in 2nd grade - most of my classmates wouldn't have agreed with me on the ease of the program though.
Price is reasonable and if you have high enough GPA/SAT scores you could apply for the Albert Dorman Honors College - they paid for almost my entire undergraduate tuition, but I must warn you it is a lot of work.
One bad thing I must say though is the quality of campus life - it fucking sucks. ~85% men here and as for the 10-15% left of women... well, you get the idea. However we are about 10 miles due west of the financial district of NYC, about a 30 minute train ride right to Penn Station and there's *plenty* to do in the city, so it' really up to you.
# fuser -v
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What the best College for computer networking ?? I have 3 letters for you M.I.T.
I recently went to an open house for a new school called Northface University. They have an extremely interesting bachelor of science degree in computer science where you will spend 28 weeks working on state of the art IT. The teachers include Terry Halpin and Joe Celko. The school is in its first year of existence. That actually means you would be working directly with the professors as they establish curriculum. The idea is to pack a full bachelors degree in a 28 month intense programming fest.
Shit, I'm only 26 and aleady I'm jaded...
--D
While I'm only an Undecided Science major, I've heard many good things from my CS/CE freinds about the Network Engineering programs at Rensselaer Polytechnic (we do have Internet2, that I'm sure of).
Cisco has a good program that integrates with higher ed. You can read about it at Cisco's Net Acadamy
And Universities like Davenport University integrate it into their curriculum, here.
Education is the foundation upon which good experience builds. Many will say you just need experience. Let me tell you - I've met plenty of on-the-job created engineers. They arn't always good engineers. An education gives you a foundation of skills that is required to make you a great engineer.
Find a school, get an education.
On an interesting side note, Davenport University, a private non-profit school in Michigan, is also offering security degrees. That's something pretty new.
Not to be confused with ITT.
Choosing a college is one of the great dilemmas of life. After many years of contemplation about this, I've come to the conclusion that it is better to go the most prestigious university you can get into. We'll talk about why in just a sec. But first I'd like to explain the irony of going to college. There are two main reasons that I can think of for going to college. The first is to get an education, and the second to get a job. Now, as it turns out, these options are selectively exclusive. The more prestigious university you go to the higher your ego will be AND you will have a better change at getting a kick-ass job. On the other hand, the more prestigious university you go to, the crappier your education will be. I am finishing up my degree in Physics at UCLA, and I can tell you that I've received a really pathetic education here. I would have a better education if I had stayed in high school four more years. But aside from the curricula, I learned a lot about life and about dealing with the world during my time in college. But hey, education isn't really all that important anyway, unless you want to be a stuck-up Professor who tries to act smarter than everyone else. There are a lot of jack-asses who are on the verge of showing no common sense whatsoever that make a lot of money and are really happy. I say fuck the education and go for prestige.
Studying computer science in college is a waste of time and money. Network Engineering is just one class in a CS degree. Take it at DeVry and do some certifications, that way when you can't find work you won't have huge debts to worry about, THEN you can go to college and study nursing.
A good 2 year college to get actual hands-on work with Cisco routers and switches is Arkansas State University - Beebe. It's a small school but a Cisco regional academy that can offer courses through the CCNP level. It's better than other colleges I've attend, which only have software simulations of the routers and switches. http://www.asub.edu/beebe
You should look at ...[pti.edu]They have a lot of really good programs and you can specialize in a lot of different areas. They do certification too...
You may also want to consider ITT Technical Institute. They have degrees in those fields and can also help you get certified.
Since you interested in doing a job that can be accomplished by a trained monkey, I suggest you look into you're local zoo, or Barnum & Bailey's.
i dont' go there but they have a good CS program and there actually is a 3:1 women to men ratio
Here's the real question: do you want to be a scientist or an engineer, or do you want to put stuff together?
Because if you want to STUDY or MAKE things, go to a good CS school: MIT, U of I, Purdue, Carnegie Mellon, University of Chicago (shameless plug, plus U of C will teach you more than just computers). Those are just the top schools off the top of my head, and are necessarily the best schools. I'm sure your own local schools might be good enough. My advice is not to look for a "networking school" as that amount of specialization is not what you want from a university education. See below.
However, if you want to USE things, then get yourself to a trade school, community college, or hell, just teach yourself and get the certification. No need to waste all that money learning about theory, writing papers, etc., when you can just study how to build and maintain networks.
Of course, I'm not saying that this is somehow a 'lesser' pursuit; instead you'll learn more specific skills suited to where you want to work: networking.
--Stephen
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
A very good program at:
http://www.dal.ca/~eine/
Might I suggest the University of Washington in Seattle? It has one of the finest Computer Science departments in the nation. If you don't want to go into something as scientific as Computer Science, there's always the Informatics program (one of the only programs of its type in the world) which looks at computers and information in the context of humanity, something that works well within the setting of network engineering.
Try ITT Tech! I see the crappy commercials on teevee all the time. Get your bachelors degree! Then everyone will know you went to that-school-for-working-adults-with-the-cheesy-com mercials!
Yay!
I'm currently a student at Rutgers University College of Engineering majoring in Computer Engineering. Now while that's fine and dandy, I also am able to work at the school doing real networking work. I am able to work with equipment that most *professionals* have only seen pictures of, let alone worked on (Cisco 12000 series routers, for instance). My suggestion to you is find a good (big is nice too) school that you can get real experience at. The reason I say big is because schools typically don't have carrier, or even enterprise level networks unless they do a lot of research and move a lot of data. That's the sort of thing you want to get experience on, as it's easy to apply experience on big projects to smaller ones, but doing the reverse is much more difficult. Studying for the CCNA is beneficial, even if you don't choose to take the exam. I am fortunate enough in that I had a two-year CCNA program at my high school. It's probably why I got the job I got. I wouldn't stress yourself looking for a "Network Engineering" program. Get a degree in a (semi-)relevant field: CS, any kind of engineering, Math, Physics, you get the drift. They all will do.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
You should look at Pittsburgh Technical Institute They have a lot of really great programs and a lot of computer fields. They do certification too... So you can get your degree and MCSE/CCNA/etc...all in one shot.
There were no schools that had the degree program that I wanted, so I chose to go to a community college until i figured something out. I finished with a 2 year degree in CIS and moved on to a more technical program in computer engineering. While the CE degree isn't just networking, its a good foundation for getting into serious network engineering later on. Of couse, I was learning networking on my own over this entire period, so I should be prepared for a real network engineer job soon... hopefully.
If he is interested in actually developing the technologies that these networks use (protocol design, transfer media, etc), then he should go to a 4-year college and major in Computer Science, Computer Engineering or Electrical Engineering. He won't be able to focus on networks right away (you have to learn the basics first), but by his junior year he'd be able to pick a focus.
But for "Network Engineering", DeVry or ITT will be quicker and cheaper.
If, in the future, computer networking is so difficult and full of gotchas and traps and weird little programming tricks that people will need a college degree to do it reliably, then today's engineers have failed miserably.
The whole point of computer 'science' is to make operating, programming, and using computers productively be easy and transparent. It is not to create layers and layers of code, interfaces, and protocols that add massive plateaus of complexity to what is already a discipline wroght with artificial and useless complexity.
This is a key point that no one in the Linux/Unix community seems to understand.
(Oh boy, there go all my mod karma points again)
Well, if you are interested in a strong overall education, and not on lots of women I'd suggest my alma mater Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. It's a top 50 schools, and their engineering schools is great. I'd look into IT here, they are part of the cisco academy, which means you can take courses as part of your college work, and earn cisco networking certifications, CCNA, CCNP, CCDA, CCDP, among others. IT@RPI
Haven't you read the headlines? "Massive unemployment in IT", "Outsourcing endangers domestic IT", etc.
Go into another profession. The world doesn't need another newbie network protocol designer or "network engineer". Heck it doesn't even need another Java programmer.
Go into business or medicine. Forget about being a "network engineer". Wake up and smell the coffee.
Just a data point: I work at the University of Pennsylvania in the core networking department. We do the stuff you are interested in. All of our Network Engineers here have at least a masters degree in either Telecommunications or Comp Sci from the university.
By all means take the usual Computer Science or Computer Engineering, but -- get some experience. ASAP, get a job doing something related to networks -- whether it's adminning Cisco gear, servicing small offices, or just pulling cable, it all helps. Working summers and weekends will help you pay for school. But more importantly it will help you understand what you're studying in school. Finally, it will give you the experience you'll need to get a good job after college. It's not just about having "x" years of experience as a bargaining chip -- it's about knowing what to do in the real world, and being able to hit the ground running.
bofh at www.theregister.com
literally *everything* you need to know...
first off, school is for meeting people and using resources. It's not for learning. Learning is an individual act and teachers can only inspire. I've met some great teachers who took that perspective and some aweful ones who believe they were some form of diety. If you want to learn, you just have to want it bad enough. If you don't then you shouldn't waste your time. do what you love. It's that simple. Deciding to follow your heart and letting go of reason is the hard part.
the article from yesterday about assembley language and CS if you get into a CS degree, you would end up *UNDERSTANDING* how do computers and networks work, then you would be able to get hands on anything easier than if you missed the concepts. From my experience, after I finished my BS on Computer Science, I was able to get involved in managing a lot of things on the network at work. I'm not a fan of "trained monkeys" who know how to use this or that particular piece of hardware/software, I'm more into understanding what it should do, people who created routers or switches probably went through a CS or CE program.
I, too, am on this quest to become a Network Engineer. I have two friends that are currently working as Network Engineers. One works for a muscle magazine company in management, and the other works for a bank. I currently have had two years experience as a network administrator and am now a college student at Oregon State University. One of the suggestions that I got from my best friend is that I should concentrate on programming. No matter what you want to do in the networking industry, I was told that programming is invaluable. What I am doing to prepare myself in the market is get my CS degree and then seek certifications... Good luck!
Mike Miller "If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now be quiet, they're about to announce the
We have an excellent engineering department. And if computer science is more your thing, they have their own faculty for that too.
although they'll probably try to blame it on a MyDoom DOS.
If you still are interested, then get into Computer Science (or possibly CE). CS is not so much about programming, but rather is much more focused on a wide range of abstract computer-related topics. For example: data structures and algorithms, computer architecture, operating systems, and networking (all very important in network theory.)
If you just want to be a big IT network guy at some business, you'd be better served by getting a non-computer major (business would be great), a CS/CE minor, and a bunch of networking certifications. Your diversity will give you a huge advantage, and you'll be able to cross into another field if the computer thing doesn't pan out.
Hmm. You're starting college/university presumably this fall. Four years at school, a bit of time looking for an 'experience' job, and it'll be about 2010 by the time you're ready to start your career.
By then, I expect IT will be a wasteland of mostly automated systems. The only part of computing that won't be automated will be user admin, and nobody will be any more inclined to do that sort of work then than they are now.
I hate to say it (especially since it's my own field!), but computing in any aspect other than the core stuff--circuit design, hardware topology, and in a very small segment, OS coding--will be dead before I retire. Networking in some aspects is already there. Are you sure this is a field you want to be starting out in?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Purdue University has a good CS program and the Engineering here is top notch. I also know for a fact that, say, getting into a research project in a network-related scenario is easily realized. I know this because I'm currently a CS major here.
I got my undergrad in CompE from Vanderbilt and it was a great experience. They have enough funding to have good research programs, and its also small enough for undergrads to get into these projects fairly easily. I felt like the breadth of training I received there has prepared me well for the MSEECN (master electrical engineering for computer networks) program I'm currently in at USC. Also, they must have a good reputation with grad schools, because my GPA was only just above a 3.0 and I got into 6/7 grad schools I applied to (and USC is #8 according to US News). Its 50/50 guys and girls, and those girls are consistenly rated #1 by Playboy's rankings ;) The tuition is pretty steep if you cant get funding though.
You have a web page for your cat. That's fucking sick, man!
Honestly the school matters a whole lot less than the location, assuming the school has a decent reputation.
The vast majority of employees hire from local schools so if you are looking for networking companies try looking at any of the good UC schools or depending on your grades Cal Tech/Stanford.
Firstly, congratulations on wanting to go with a real degree before jumping into the networking field. Its the way to go if you want to have any future beyond "button pushing lackey". Your entry level CCNA job has already been shipped to India, shoot higher.
There may not be a specific "Network Engineer" degree at all universities, what you want is to study Electical Engineering, add in some Mathematics (queue theory, statistics), and top it off with Physics (optics, particle physics). All of these elements are required to actually understand what is going on with networks. Specific topics to concentrate on include circuit design, transmission lines, antennas, material science, compiler design, signal processing, queue theory, and statistics, lots of statistics.
If you want to be the guy who actually writes new RFCs to be used by everybody else, gets hired by companies like Cisco to create new routers or protocols, and be the chief designer on world spanning networks, ignore the certificates for now. Concentrate on getting the background information necessary to understand all the aspects of network design, like speed of light limitations, electrical characteristics of transmission lines, radio circuits and complex mathematics. Picking up a cisco certificate will then take a week of your time when you are ready to join the workforce, and you'll know not just the HOW, but the WHY.
There are a ton of CCIEs on the market today, those without university degrees are flipping burgers or repairing PCs. The interesting work, such as creating optical switches or ultra efficient routers, can only be done by people with advanced degrees. The cert holders sit in the NOC at 3 AM, working their way through a never ending stream of trouble tickets, wishing they had a real degree to get a real job.
That said, from my experiences with US university grads, I'd recommend UC Berkeley, Purdue, CalTech, or UoWashington.
the AC
who just let his CCIE expire, because its worthless in todays job market
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
For a good understanding of networking the Technology programs at Purdue University in West Lafayette are great. They have a Computer Technology degree with a specialization in Telecommunications and Networking, as well as the Computer and Electrical Engineering Technology also allows some route towards networking. Would love to hear from other Boilermakers out there!
Also, the Engineering and Computer Science programs are great as well.
India --- Where all the IT Tech jobs will go in the future
:)
unless you wanna sweep floors
in America along side the immigrants.
Study Business and become a CEO instead
is my advice - no ethics classes to take
nor any difficult math classes
been there and done that
The Computer Science department is consistently ranked as one of the top 10 in the United States, and also ranks in the top 10 in several specific CS graduate areas. The department and its faculty and staff are the recipients of numerous honors and awards. The CS department has a wide variety of research areas, including computer networking, and operates the Wisconsin Advanced Internet Laboratory (WAIL), a one of a kind laboratory for network testing and research.
The University of Wisconsin itself is a premier public research University with a yearly budget of $1.7 billion. It ranks number 2 in research spending (and number 1 among public universities), number 2 in number of research doctorates granted, 16 of 39 major academic programs ranked in the NRC top 10, and 35 of 39 major academic programs ranked in the NRC top 25.
There are so many top notch faculty, staff, and students here at the tops of so many fields that it's amazing, from bioinformatics to nuclear engineering, from music to Slavic languages, from space physics to medical physics (including the only freestanding medical physics department in the United States), from medicine (and 3 affiliated hospitals) to literature. The University has a significant commitment to research, expanding and improving its infrastructure, and is continuously embarking on major new building inititives. The city of Madison itself is also a wonderful place to live.
Research in networking tends to occur under CS and EE programs depending on which layer of the problem you're interested in. EEs and physicists tend to focus more on the physical layer, i.e. how to tramsmit and receive the bits over a cable or fiber, while CS tends to be more interested in organization and protocols. Of course there is a lot of cross-over. Get a bs degree in one of these fields to learn the fundamentals. Then get a job or go to grad school to do actual work in the field.
Vote for Pedro
Be careful about forming too strong an ideology about post-college life while still in high school. For example, there are lots of kids who after watching one too many shows on the Discovery Channel think they want to be great engineers or marine biologists or whatever, then choose their school based on this dream, go to that school, and burn out after the fifth semester of calculus or find they really wanted to be a musician all along but are now at the wrong school for that. It is perfectly fine to seek a major like Network Engineering, but keep an open mind and don't be at all discouraged if you find it isn't what you expected. One aspect of college is learning about yourself, too.
Also, make sure you can afford the school you choose. School loans are not how kids are supposed to pay for school! If you plan on being in debt for more than just a very few years after school, you need to make a different choice. Once college ends, your priorities suddenly change to think about other debt, such as car loans or mortgages, and school loans are just a big dark cloud that makes these things much less practical. In college, however, do focus on building good credit by paying off credit cards every month and tackling small things like a used car. Also, do get internships or co-ops early on to see beyond the limited scope of a university. Choose a job over summer classes, unless you have no other way to graduate on time. Also, don't go further in school than necessary to get the type of job you want. Graduate school is a romantic notion but not always a good thing in the "real world."
Also, keep things as simple as you can and don't fall for the temptation to take extra classes beyond the regular curriculum unless you have a rediculous IQ and a knack for getting by without sleep. Also, Computer Science, networking, etc. get super-thick in the buzzwords quickly, most of which are little more than passing fashion or marketing hype. Don't let that stress you, as no humans on earth really know them all or even really care. Focus on core competencies, like programming in your school's environment, and then consider certification training or relying on summer work experience if you really need to know Cisco IOS or setting up LDAP/DNS/NIS/whatever under Solaris, for example.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
what colleges im going to apply to
I'm not going to get into stylistic subtleties here ("what" instead of "which", preposition "to" separated from its object, using "but" twice in the same sentence with differing puncutation). Instead, I'd like to remind you that the first person singular pronoun is always capitalized in English and that contractions contain apostrophes. I've attempted to read your blog, and you are no e. e. cummings, sir. The poet I mention had very specific justifications for his capitalization, laziness and ignorance not being among these reasons.
Here's another viewpoint.
I was hoping to find a college with a major, along the lines of Network Engineering, but I have yet to find one.
The comma is commonly used to separate clauses which supply extraneous information. Let's see how well your sentence stands without it:
I was hoping to find a college with a major, but I have yet to find one.
Indeed.
Slashdot is not an instant messaging program. Your words were read by thousands of people. You should at least attempt to demonstrate a mastery of the language you've been using since shortly after your birth. After all, if you present enough of a communication barrier to your superiors, they won't have any qualms looking to the Far East for their engineering.
I'm going to recommend you avoid the ivey league.
i say the university of waterloo in onatrio canada. it's one of the top ranked schools in the world for computer science and also one of the few schools that offers telecommunications for graduate degrees.
i don't see why it's assumed that american schools are the best, in some cases they aren't. people from around the world attend waterloo. if you're american it's cheaper to go there but the winter might be a bit colder or warmer depending on where you live currently.
If you want to design the equipment or software, hit a CS or EE undergrad. Everyone's mentioned some really good schools... CMU, RIT, yadda-yadda-yadda. I went to Cal (e.g. UC Berkeley) and have done well... I'll also throw in some of the best hands-on engineers that I've worked with and hired went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (to the point that the school has extra weight when I see it on a resume).
If you really want to go into Network Engineering, that is to say designing and building the NETWORKS, do yourself a BIG favor.... Get out ther and start DOING it, don't worry about the trade school or the like... get a job on an IT staff. THEN use that job to learn while you use the pay to get yourself a BUSINESS degree. You'll set yourself up for a long, long career in network engineering and operations.
The University of Texas at Austin Electrical Engineering Department has some good opportunities to study network technology. They have a Network Engineering Laboratory class which lets you build all the components of an enterprise network in-lab using Linux boxes and Cisco gear. There are also general networking classes and some good network protocol implementation classes that you can take from the CS department. Plus an EE degree gives you the foundations you need to work in almost any part of the networking industry.
Beyond the classroom the local chapter of the IEEE Communications Society provides lots of opportunity to do real network engineering. They have a widely recognized Honeypot effort, a project which seeks to replace department land-lines with VOIP phones, and a running series of lectures on network security. UT itself also administrates an impressive enterprise-class network to support the institution, and one of the guys in charge of it is a professor in the EE department.
Cisco also has an office in Austin which employs students as interns and part-time workers. I have a friend who got paid to, among other things, get his Cisco certification and configure test networks in their labs all summer long. There are lots of opportunities to learn about networking at UT, and it's a US top-ten engineering school.
College is where you learn to understand how to do things. A job is where you learn how to do things.
Use the college time to learn things you always wanted to know about, physics, electronics, math, history, art, welding, pottery, whatever. Make your degree broad based and in a subject you are curious about, don't make it a focus of a vision of some job you'll have. You want the broadest base of tools possible allowing for flexible career moves later.
A huge majority of people who are regurgitated by the institutional educational system have no real work experience until they graduate. They come out expecting that the time they 'served' will equal career skills. Hardly. As a matter of fact, if you bring the skills you used to get through school into a workplace expecting to rely on them in business you wind up with bad coping skills, lack of communication skills, fundamentally challenged in dealing with the real world. Don't worry, that's about 90% of the business workplace staff.
If you really want to stand out, realize that college is its own little world, use the courses to broaden yourself as a person and expect that your next step is to then learn how to actually work. Start by getting yourself part-time work in the field. It will give you a much better view into how to better make use of course selections and give you an excellent idea if you really do want to work in IT as a career at all.
The things I found that I missed out on by not going through a formal degree are things like finance courses, business law, things that would make starting a business a bit less painful. If you get out into the workplace and discover that you aren't one of the sheep, content to live a cubicle life, you will find that the only way out from working for The Man is to start your own business. These courses will help you there.
It's easy to get a degree and get a job to match what it says. It's much harder to find a job that turns out to be what you really want to be doing. Don't limit yourself with a degree or actually the perception that a degree will make your career.
MIT is the best school in the US I guess for technology.
n kindex_brief.php
;)
BTW.: You did not mention where you live.
Also get some magazines they always publish these kind of surveies.
I did a google and came up with these that are worth more investigation.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/ra
Also you parents economy comes into perspective, so they also have to agree somehow
Lars Tokyo
I am in a similar position as the guy in the news story, and would love to study CS and think I would do well, but from the programs ive seen, the math scares me. Ive never been very great at math and high level math annoys me, its just bad news. Have people graduated with CS(or similar) degrees and able to get past alot of the high level math or attended a program that laxed the math? Thanks in advance for replies
Just read the want ads to see what employers are looking for. Most ask for a BS in CS and experience. Internships are available through a CS degree. Also, as already stated, CCNA and the like are nice to have and actually pretty fun to get. When you get a CCNA, you're just studying networking using a hands-on approach. The ammount of time it takes to earn a CCNA varies depending on how intense your study program is.
Who has the largest network in the world? M.I.T.
Where was X invented? M.I.T.
Where was radar invented? M.I.T.
What's the best school in the world? M.I.T.
One of the best things about going to a school like Harvard or Stanford is that many of your classmates are wealthy and connected. During your program at school you will have many opportunities to form networks with fellow students, their parents, and alumni who later in life will be able to get you a job.
One thing to consider is networks of electronics instead of computers. Here is a very specific example: You want to be able to put surveillance in any area of the globe in a couple of hours after it's requested. One solution is to drop from plane or helicopter several identical devices which send a signal only when needed. Once they land they need to establish contact with each other and create some sort of net (laser, microwave, etc) to detect movement (radar, tripwire, etc). If such a movement is detected that is deemed important, only one of the devices sends the message so if detected, the other devices can continue scanning (perhaps after a timeout).
;)
So then you can think of manners to solve the problem. Would you want the devices to create a hierarchy? How would you implement that assuming each device is identical (if they are not identical, any single piece failing would destroy the network, unless they are all unique-- think cost).
Ok maybe this is more off topic than I thought, but I think this is a really neat problem and may do a senior project / paper on it.
I thought most network engineers had EE degrees not CS ones. At least if you work with the low level network stuff like ATM, fiber, sonet rings, etc
The male/female ratio was 85/15 last time I checked, and it is damn near the hardest school in the US to get into.
I agree with the person that spoke above. I go to RIT for CS, and it's great here (aside from 2:1 male:female ratio). If you can take a hard course load, RIT is a good school. And I've heard our Engineering college is one of the best in the country.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
I know I'm plugging my own university here, but A&M has a really great environment if you want to do networking. Also, the CPSC degree plan is pretty flexible.
:-). Also, note the NE program at TAMU: http://vnelab.cs.tamu.edu/network_engineering_vne. html
Check out the
VNE and this list
of schools that the NSA has designated as "CENTERS OF ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE IN INFORMATION ASSURANCE EDUCATION" which also largely have good networking programs. This list of course includes Texas A&M University
Don't become a regular here, you will become retarded. -- Yoda the Retard
I knew somebody who was in this exact situation, and they said that they got more out of working while going to school, than actually attending school, check out the following link from a company whose network reaches into most university's network, the chance to work with a few of the big guys who are eager to take you under their wings.
/ jo b684.html
http://www.akamai.com/en/html/careers/jobsearch
Formerly GMI
This is an excellent engineering school in Michigan that has a very good CS and CE program.
I agree that a college education should be more general than most engineering programs, but if the guy is interested in computers he should focus there. UC Berkeley had two CS programs, one from the College of Engineering and one from the College of Letters and Science. I chose the latter because it was easier to get into:) I was able to take classes in history, classics, geology, linguistics, and other random fields because of the lower number of prereqs in the College of L&S. And I was still able to take enough CS classes to earn a degree in my chosen field.
As a student who's about to finish his undergraduate degree and hoping to specialize in networking in graduate school, I'd like to offer some insight...
The reason you can't find a college with a major like "network engineering" is simple -- specializations such as these are for graduate students. Undergraduates in Computer Engineering, by contrast, go through a diversified program including math, physics, chemistry, humanities, etc., in addition to the real meat of their degree: programming, architecture, networking (your interest), and many other facets of computer science.
Now you might think that because of this well-rounded approach, you'll only take one class on computer networking. This is not true. Some universities offer more than one undergraduate class in computer networking. At the university I attend, there is a "general" networking class, but there is also a class and lab devoted entirely to the physical layer, and within a year a class on peer-to-peer technologies might be incorporated. Also, the CS department will typically allow you as an undergraduate to petition to take graduate-level computer CS classes, including any networking ones you might find. And if you can't even do that, don't sweat it -- a single professor specializing in networking at a university might have multiple projects available for undergraduates to work on. Earnestly, this is the best way to get your feet wet on the Internet2 and other networking-related projects that interest you. Through meeting with a professor, I'm now working on a peer-to-peer (Pastry DHT based) client that will, perhaps, see the light of day on PlanetLab, followed by a general release.
Another reason to not shy away from the "general" CS degree is that you might find something along this track that is more interesting than networking. Besides spending my time on that peer-to-peer project, I'm also volunteering on a project in the EE department developing software for Lego robots. Sure, I'm little more than a code monkey over there, but it's interesting to hang around the lab and learn of new things and new technologies. I've also done work in the physics lab, programmed in the Geology department (writing Matlab programs to simulate earthquakes and analyze seismographic data), and done technical support for campus computer users in my almost-four years here. If you go looking, you'll find a myriad of cool things at your university -- perhaps cooler than networking.
Best of luck in your searches,
shadowmatter
(Score: 0, Redundant)
I have seen many, many posts to Slashdot from high school students who want to have some technical job and want to know what school to attend. The bottom line is: (and comments like this one are always moderated to the top) it doesn't matter where you get your undergraduate degree. Your undergraduate degree is only a vehicle to teach you the fundamentals of how to think in a particular field. You spend 4+ years just learning the technical language of a field so you can speak intelligently with professionals in that field. Even after you graduate, you will feel like you really don't know anything, and will rely heavily on coworkers during your first job to guide you toward practical use of the broad set of skills you barely learned as an undergrad.
If you are a glutton for punishment, you might choose to return to school for graduate studies, where you will feel even more clueless, but at least your classes will begin to delve into interesting material specific to the area you are interested in. Only when you finish your PhD dissertation will you feel like you are an expert, but your expertise will be in such a focused topic that you will be glad you took all of those other classes as an undergrad so you can actually get a job.
My advice is to go to a school with a good technical reputation, but not necessarily MIT or Stanford. Earn a 4.0, but also enjoy yourself. Your college life as an undergraduate is a great experience. With your high grades from a good school, you won't have any problem getting into great graduate program. On the other hand, it is probably a good idea to get a job and go work for a couple of years so you can get a feel for the industry and decide what you really want to specialize in. Then go to grad school. And get your employer to pay for it. I did.
[I am a graduate student in EE. YMMV]
Don't waste your money. Go to community college instead.
..don't panic
You might try looking for universities that operate a GigaPoP like the one at Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center (associated with CMU and Pitt). One CMU undergrad did an internship there (see the image and caption titled "Undergrad Excellence") and was hired after graduation.
You'll find other GigaPoPs listed on the Internet2 site.
Two words dude,
LAN party
Network engineering is a pretty bussword that often means running some corps network. If that is what you want, get the easiest degree technical degree you can, get 1 or 2 cisco certs and you should be ready.
If you mean, and I think you do,you want to be involved in research and be out there developing the next big network technology, then get an EE degree and add some extra computer courses to you schedule.
People doing cutting edge need to be able to use electronic testing tools. They need to understand what is going on inside the chip. Speed of networks is always what people want, and the father we push it, the more you need to know whats going on at the signal level.
also, be sure to know assembly, because at that level you don't want to spare cycles.
As for colloeges, find out what college the person running the internet2 went to. If they were in a faternity, then you need to join the same faternity, even if at a different school.
If they wern't in a faternity, join one anyways. those contact will last you for life.
That last bit is the most important, by the way.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
College is definitely the way to go to help ensure success later in life. The education you gain is nice; the experiences and connections you will make are even more important. When you are looking for that first job you can rely on you personal network established through dorm roommates, lab partners, summer internships, grad students, professors, etc.
The college question is difficult to answer without context. Are you rich? Did you have good grades/test scores in high school? Where do you live? The answers to these questions determine which schools are affordable and attainable. After you have answered these pick the best one available and check to see if it has a program that meets your needs. It appears that you want a CS program that you don't have to commit to right away.
Lastly don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on a general liberal arts degree. I think the college experience is very valuable, but if you are not going to have a marketable degree in the end then it would be much cheaper to go to a state school. Otherwise you will have huge student loans to pay off after graduation and no money to pay them with.
IT is fine and all, but these people need to see their true place and see the difference
As a Sr Network Engineer at a Tier-1 ISP, I'll give you my two cents from my personal experience and those I've worked with. Personally, I got a Computer and Systems Engineering Degree, and stayed an extra year for a Masters. The extra year was well worth it, as it allowed me to take many graduate-level networking classes. These classes beat the OSI model to death, but also got real deep into networking theory, which involved a lot of queueing theory, Markov chains, and a bunch of stuff that I never really need to use on a daily basis. However, what it gave me is a understanding of networking from the bottom up, and as such I am able to pick up and thoroughly understand new technology and protocols with ease. Most in the network engineering field do not have this sort of background, and my experience has been that those without this education are not able to pick up and _really_ understand things quite as easily. It does indeed help to have 'real world' experience with routers, but learn the theories first. Once you have that, you can pick up anything. Don't spend much effort to getting a CCNA, CCNP, CCIE, etc. It'll give you a 10,000 ft view of how things work, but you really won't have the same level of understanding. Quite frankly most people I've worked with that have such certifications shouldn't be anywhere near a production router, but that is another story. Hope this helps, and of course there are exceptions to every generalisation.
Number 6 ranked computer engineering college in America. Similarly ranked for EE and CS. Number 3 in Aerospace Engineering, incase you like nozzles and fluid dynamics.
Troy is my home town. I live within walking distance of RPI. The freshman dorms at RPI are basically Troy High's parking lot. Troy High, is a dump. (Ok, fortunately I didn't go to Troy High because my mom is a teacher at another school district.) Theres way more stuff to do in Rochester, if "doing stuff" is your thing. Like, Dinosaur Barbecue. Troy has nothing that holds a candle to Dinosaur BBQ.
I did my undergrad in Computer Engineering under the Networks track of CE. I am now finishing a Master's in CE with the same focus (now Wireless networks). DONT LISTEN TO JERKS WHO SAY ALL YOU NEED IS A CISCO CERT. There is a huge difference between understanding how to program cisco IOS and understanding the fundamentals behind networks. Ask a CCNA/NP/etc to do some signal processing, write a device driver, show why a routing algorithm has no loops, etc. Good luck. If you want to be on the trialing end of technology, go to a tech school. If you want to work on cool projects like Internet2, ad-hoc wireless networks, ubiquitous computing, etc, head towards a CS or a CE degree at a department that has a big research focus on networks. UC Berkeley, Santa Cruz, LA, San Diego are a bunch in California. Most of the good CS schools you will find some good networking people.
Santa Cruz specifically has a CE Networks degree. It's a CE degree, but you complete it by taking classes on network theory, design, implementation, etc in your senior year. But as most people said, you won't really get into the good stuff unless you do graduate research or work for a company doing a lot of research in that area.
Good luck!
When you get a job you will write every day. You will have to write to explain your product to your manager. You will have to write to explain your product to your sales force. You will have to write to explain your product to your customers. Being good at explaining what tech stuff you are doing and how it is a benefit to your customers will be important to you every day of your career.
While you are getting your education you will learn a lot of tech information and then you will practice implementing it. Chances are that you will never use that particular tech knowledge again. What you will use is learning how to learn and implement a technology and how to describe it to someone else.
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
I'm a CPE major at CPSLO. Basically the motto here is 'learn by doing.' So we get the theory and then actually do stuff with it. I think this is one of the reasons why US News says we have the No. 3 [engineering] program at a public school, behind only the U.S. Military Academy and the U.S. Naval Academy. Also, our CPE is second in the nation for undergraduate study. And hey, it's public so if you hail from CA you won't be 40,000 in debt before you get out....
I guess it depends on what your other interest are as well. :-p
If you want to get just a purely technical background, then Georgia Tech might be good. But if you want a well rounded background go to cornell, or another school with a really good engineering program as well as liberal arts studies.
over here we are required to take 18 creds of non-engineering and advised to take more.
they also have great language programs -- including hindi
ITT Tech has a pretty good Associate's program. It gives you a decent grounding in theory so you can get started in the industry quickly. I found it very difficult to get a job in the IT industry when I was 2/3's of the way toward's a BS in Computer Science. When I switched to ITT I was able to land an entry level IT job after the first quarter.
Education is very important, but a technical school like ITT allows you to really combine it with real world experience if you work hard and find the job. It's hard to work full time and go to school, but ultimately you'll be in a better place when your done.
Cheap storage VM.
Network Engineering is but an implementation of many theoretical areas of study. Although universities will attempt to attract you with the breadth, depth, and relevance of their Engineering programs, evaluate the Math, Chemistry, Biology, Music, and English departments also. Synergy is a fundamental catalyst of excellence. Without the broader aspects provided by such synergy, your Network Engineering degree will not provide you with a lifelong education.
That being said, the College of Engineering and Computer Science at the University of Texas at Dallas graduates more EE/CS undergrads and grads than any other University in the US.
Systems Administrator
Dept of Computer Science
UTD
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
I just graduated from a CC after five years of school. The first two where at a four year school New Mexico Tech. I started with Cs and found it wasnt what I wanted and then went to EE, which also wasnt what I wanted. I then came back to chicago to get my AAS in Network Administration. Dont waste your time/money if you want to work with the stuff. If you want to design the hard/software behind the network then by all means go to a four year university.
Experience is the main key in getting a job in Network Administration. Get your hands on as many programs and operating systems as you can anc get some consulting done. The more experience you have the more people will want you even if you dont have your four year degree. As long as you have proof you can do it they will hire you.
Just my two cents.
Now, everyone is throwing around names of private schools, but if we're looking from a practical standpoint, you're going to owe less when you come out, and really if specialization is the way that you want to go, you can go around, monkey as a poor tech and get your precious 'experience' and then push on toward Grad school or where you might want from there with a lot less debt load.
There is a telecommunications program at Sheridan College in Ontario, Canada, with a lot of networking equipment.
http://telecomtech.sheridaninstitute.ca/
I have no signature
I hear India Institute of Technology is pretty good. They have excellent placement upon graduation. Average starting salary is $7,500 per year too.
unless you want to spend the rest of your life wage-slaving as a router jockey.
Get your BS in CS, get a job doing something related to your interest just to show you can hold a job down and for some experience points. then go 4 your masters after a couple of years. You come out of that fresh from college, but with a resume.
Where was X invented? M.I.T.
Well, that just about cancels the other ones out...
Two years ago, I went back to school to complete an MBA. I found myself ranked at the top of the class, along with engineers, computer programmers, and scientists. Only one other person had a BA. Yet I managed to hold my own and graduate near the top of the class. I proved I could do calculus and compete with "math people".
And then I graduated. People now find it suspicious that I have an English degree and an MBA! They say, "You can't possibly be good at both financial and 'soft' business skills. Which is it?" It's amazing how people put Liberal Arts majors in boxes. I majored in Arts because I felt it was extremely important to have a well-rounded background before specializing. I do think Arts majors learn a breadth of skills and are more likely to challenge establishment thinking.
However, my husband chose to do an undergrad in Math, with a computer science minor and lots of Arts electives. He later completed an M.Math. He has a great job as a software architect, makes about 40% more than I do, and can still quote Shakespeare and Homer.
My recommendation? Do a general computer science or somewhat general engineering degree, and do a double-major/minor in Liberal Arts. Volunteer for some clubs and try to socialize with a wide variety of people. You'll still gain exposure to a broad range of ideas, but you'll have better job options.
That being said, I suppose I still earn more than the average university grad or masters grad. But my husband has a lot more jobs to choose from.
-- SYS 64738 --
SLAC is Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
First, you need that piece of paper. Going to college is a must, but today there are many schools available to you. Thus, you really need to narrow down your choices: Large school or small? Close to home or not? Pure technical or not? And the big one, Cost. Research where you want to go, dont go into it blindly. Visit campuses. Interms of what you want to study, my personal opinion is that you need to look into an Engineering Degree. Electrical, Computer or Electrial and Computer Engineering degrees will give you more of a hardware background then Computer science, which is concerns itself more with programming. Though ultimately it isnt really all that important what you study as undergrad. Graduate programs is where you would get most of your training in networking classes. You need to learn basic theory first. Only your senior year of being an undergrad can you start to apply such things. I went to Lafayette College and studied ECE. The mix of both programming and electronics made the program interesting. Still, even graduate work in networks wont help you all that much. Since we only use 10% of what we learn in college on the job anyways. Thus, your objective comes down to getting good grades and try to make yourself stand out so that you can get an offer from the employer you want. Ultimately, your employer would teach you your job. A good engineering school is still my opinion. There are enough out there to choose from.
If I were you, I wouldn't get a network engineer degree. I already have one with many other skills on top and it has gotten me nowhere. Check out my skills at http://floatingserver.mirrorz.com
Baylor's on there twice. Sic 'Em Bears.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
I came to the Rochester Institute of Technology and I've loved every minute of it. They have top notch CS, IT, and SE programs. There are also Computer Engineering and Electrical engineering programs that are highly rated in the US News and World Report. One thing that attracted me the most was a "special interest house", namely Computer Science House. We do things above and beyond what the rest of the school does. When they (students or the institute) need something done, they come to us. It is the biggest incubator for talent around. We have over 400 alumni working everywhere including high ranking jobs at the CIA, NSA, DoD, FedEx, as well as many self-employees. Overall, it is an amazing environment that I would definitely consider checking out. Contact me for more information.
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementia (There is no great genius without a mixture of madness) - Aristotle
I hope to work on things like Internet2, or in a large business environment after college.
Three words: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center.
Traditionally:
h tml
Computer Science = Software
Computer Engineering = Hardware
Computer Technology = Software + Hardware + Business
Something you might want to consider is CPT..
http://www.tech.purdue.edu/cpt/information/about.
I really hope you get this message.
I went to DePaul University in Chicago. It is an urban school with a focus on liberal arts. I graduated from the school of CTI (computer science, telecommunications, & information systems) with a major in Computer Networking Technologies, and a minor International Political Science.
CTI graduates the most students in the nation in the computers field, and is fairly well respected in the local IT industry.
Try going to the web site...
http://www.cti.depaul.edu
good luck wherever you go
( this message was composed on a treo 600 on an amtrack train)
Victory is gained, not in knowing your opponents next move, but in preempting them.
If you want to be a network tech, which is not a bad thing. However this is not what an Engineer does. As an engineer you have to understand the theory behind the network and why it works. Then be able to make informed decisions about it.
Just keep that in mind many of my friends went into engineering thinking it was something it is not.
Steve
Computer Engineer
Auburn University has a brand new Wireless Engineering program which is one of the first of its kind in the nation. It's essentially a combination of the CompEng, EE, CS, and SoftwareEng Departements. It has both a hardware and a software option, so you could choose which area you liked better. Here's a link to the site:
http://www.eng.auburn.edu/center/wireless/
Althought not as well known across the country as some other public engineering schools, Auburn has one of the top colleges of engineering in the nation and it moves up the ladder each year. War Eagle.
Dude,
I got one of the first Comp Sci degrees from Boston University. Take it from me, the technical information you learn in school will give you a boost for the first oh, three months in the real world.
After twenty two years in the business, I find that my background liberal arts education MUCH more valuable.
Sure, anyone can code (or configure a network). But who can speak and write logical Standard English?
Who's your tech-literate, English-literate Daddy???!!!
I didn't go there, but I do know Indiana University lets you create your own degree by picking and choosing classes. Not exactly sure how it works, but I know its been pretty popular.
You are an idiot. To get a degree in something so specialized as "Network Engineering" is almost anti-education. Study things that human beings give a damn about, study the Computer Science on the down-low, and network with real human beings. Get a job at your Uni's NOC and get your hands on all the gear there. Computer Science degrees will be trying to replace your network engineering degree. I hope they do it.
I teach the CCNA course in a high school and just had some info about this program come across my desk - it looks pretty good (I'm trying to figure out a way to get my school to give me 4 years off with pay so I could go do it myself)
Carleton University Bachelor of Information Technology - Network Specialization
Even heroes have the right to dream
I went through almost the same situation.. granted it was 10 years ago and at the time no one heard of something like a network engineer..
First off, I think a college degree can open a lot of doors. I'm fortunate enough to be doing exactly what I love in a part of the country most people can't afford to live in year round. I suspect I couldn't have done that with my resume alone. I can guarantee you won't get the hands on experience in an undergraduate program that someone getting a CCNA will get, but I don't think you should worry about that.
Now, getting down to some details. I think an Electrical Engineering, Computer Science, or Computer Engineering degree is what you should be looking at. I realized about my junior year I wanted to get into networking stuff and found I had some great resources to choose from:
My first job was a sys admin. Excellent stuff and it gave me firm hands-on training. Now I do telecommunications, which mainly involves phone networks and infrastructure backbones for the computer geeks (fiber and copper in a campus environment.) I firmly believe you don't know shit about computer networks until you've worked on phone networks - it's kind of the missing piece that makes everything else make sense.
One other random thought.. someone told me once that college isn't about teaching you a profession it's about teaching you how to learn.
Good luck!
----- obSig
Seriously. A 4 year school is a waste if you're only interested in Networking. That is, unless, you REALLY want to understand networking. Go for Computer Engineering, or Electronic Engineering. In the near future, a CS degree will get you as far in the job market as a Communications degrees.
Igonre going after the idea the you are going to learn everythig in technology. trust me. I was teaching graduate courses in Networking and *NIX before I even received my bachelors degree. I have spoken to many colleges about getting a post graduate degree, and this is actually very easy with my experience. I have had CISCO certification, and earned it all through experience, not training.
The best thing to do is get some college experience, degress, actually help a bit, then get some real world experience through good companies. This is the hard part. Most of the best people I have ever met, and experienced over the years through others, etc, have been either taught by themelves, or through good experiences.
One person I have met with multiple degrees in mathematics, physics, history, etc, and a very talented technologist, for whatever that means, told me this...
He has meet three types of people in his life. One is the "geek" that is very interested in technoology and all that has to do with it, and how it works. Self taught to be concise. The other is an ex drug/criminal/etc that has always been very smart, but technology is an easy way for this person to get involved in things and not get board. The pther is an educated person. Book smart.
Geuss which one has always done the best....
Actually the ex criminal/etc, but a close second is the person that has always been involved in the field. The other guy, well...
F'em we never give them any chance in our company. Too mahy experiences with those type of people that can past a test very easily, but in the real world have no idea what to do, or how to find out what to do if they cannot.
This is reality.
Berkeley, Seti@home.
Enjoy the challenge of administering 3.5 million clients and 72.99 TeraFLOPs/sec of computing power.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Get your undergrad in CS, then go for a Masters in Computer Science/Distributed Systems.
wow, unfortunately for me i submitted this question like 1.5 YEARS AGO. im now at carnegie mellon university double majoring in computer science and physics [and possibly dropping physics for mech e or ee].
my desires definitely have changed, but hopefully this whole shindig can help some other high school junior.
Not a very well known school, but it's a campus of both Indiana University and Purdue. I suggest checking out the Informatics major. IUPUI also has a part in Internet2. I'm not sure of the details, as my area is bioinformatics, but there's something under the library :o).
Otherwise, you may also be interested in Purdue's CPT program. They offer a Network Engineering Degree. Purdue is perhaps the best engineering/tech university in the midwest, maybe even east of the Mississippi. In fact, maybe even east of California. And unlike IU, their football team doesn't entirely suck.
Plus, Indianapolis has lots of things going for it for someone in the industry. Plenty of large companies that need tech workers (the headquarters of Lilly and Conseco and Thompson Consumer Electronics North America and Simon Property Group - the world's largest mall owner) as well as many regionally strong tech companies.
Yes, I'm a little biased, but for good reason.
I don't know if anyone's still checking this set of threads, but here goes...
What universities are considered some of the best for a master's in computer engineering focusing specifically on computer architecture? More specifically I'm wanting to know which universities fit this category and offer such degrees through distance learning (if any). Any ideas?
CMU is a good school, but you have to be ready for...well, you may not expect everything there.
(Note that I picked up a bachelor's in CS there and liked it quite a bit.)
I found that the school tends to be a bit racially cliquish. There are a phenomenal number of students from wealthy families overseas that attend, and a (surprisingly, to me at least) number of recent immigrants. I never really ran into any bad spirits (with the possible exception of a Saudi student who seemed quite put-upon immediately after September 11th), but Indians tended to hang out with other Indians, Chinese with other Chinese, etc. It *is* a neat way to pick up other culture -- I'm not a huge fan of travel or picking up other cultures other than my monthly National Geographic, but I really enjoyed some of what I learned about folks there.
CMU has a few *extremely* highly-rated schools. For example, their computer science program and their drama programs are both extremely good. This may *sound* really nice. However, it also has drawbacks. When you are going to university with these people, they are really, really, really good. They not infrequently have done decent work in their major. You can't just decide to pick up a drama double major if you're a typical computer science major, because (a) you would probably never be accepted, and (b) if you did get in, you would be decidedly out of your depth unless you had serious prior experience. CMU is a pretty awful place to be if you don't know, for Pretty Darn Certain what you want to do. Changing majors is generally a pain in the ass. (Note that drama is a particularly nasty case -- there are a very few classes for out of majors that generally have a waiting list many times the size of the class). All this *does* mean that you can generally get a very good education in the field you choose, but it is difficult to seriously explore other things.
CMU is not what you would call a party school. It is next to U Pitt, and, in any event, you can find friends on any campus, but I'd call it socially toned down.
CMU (at least CS and ECE) has a decidedly non-Windows bias, which is quite refreshing if you like working on UNIX systems. This takes root in a number of issues (Microsoft hiring a number of professors away, political issues, etc).
CMU is notable for a lot of different research. I'd say that their computer vision stuff is extremely prominent, as is their robotics works. There are some good language people there. Speech synthesis and recognition is big. The philosophy department has a strong AI/symbolic logic slant, which can be very good if you're into that, and bad if you like classical philosophy. They have networking work, but I don't see the network folks being as prominent as at some other universities. There (at least a while ago) was a significant project working on ad-hoc wireless networking. This is a pretty incomplete list. If you take CS up at CMU, be *sure* to take Professor Steven Rudich's Great Ideas In Computer Science class. It is, without compare, the finest class I've ever taken. It gives your brain a *throrough* workout, is a huge amount of fun, and is inspiring as all hell. Prof. Rudich also gives great assignments -- basically, he gives all the information required to figure some past significant idea in computer science out, then gives you the problem as an assignment. It feels *great* when you do it. I wish to God that more profs gave assignments like this. I and other people have even gone back to sit in on lectures he's given for classes we've already taken.
CMU has awful parking. A car will cause you a good deal of grief. Even in university terms, CMU has bad parking.
CMU is in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh's average age is extremely high (expecially given the number of universities in the thing). There are a *lot* of old people there. This means that the city shuts down quite early. 24 hour grocery stores and similar are not common. On the other hand, Pittsburgh also has phenomenal
May we never see th
First off, I agree with those who have said that you ought to consider electrical engineering over computer science (I am presuming you want to design network systems, not set up and install networks). I currently attend the Univ. of California, San Diego, and when I first was admitted I had goals similar to yours in mind. UCSD requires electrical engineers to choose a "Depth Sequence" of which there are about a dozen selections including Network Engineering and Queuing Systems. However after speaking with the academic advisor (a professor in the field) for the networking depth sequence, I was convinced (by the professor) that focusing on networking this early would limit me in the long run. He recommended to choose a broader depth called Communications Systems which focuses on multiple aspects in the field (such as DSP) and said to leave network engineering for grad school.
Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
My co-op teacher my senior year in high school set me up with a job at a local mom and pop computer store in 1995. I worked there for two years where I started out screwing 486's together, then moved to a bigger city. I've been working in this city for almost 7 years. I started out working on workstations and Windows 95, learned some Access programming from a "Teach yourself Access in 14 days" book, moved on to NetWare 4.1, 4.11, 5, 5.1, Redhat 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, Nortel switches and routers, Cisco everything. I've got an A+(big deal right, I think it expired in 2000), CNE 4 and 5(both expired now), CCNA, CCNP, RHCE, and IP Telephony Specialist. This past year I got a CCIE and made 109K. In 1997 I made 26K. All this in a southeastern state. I work for an IT services company of course and not for an in-house network shop at one company. The opportunity is there, it just takes persistence and ambition.
Who are you kidding? There aren't that many CCIE's worldwide. There are less than 13,000 ever and less than that that are active. A CCIE is very valuable to a Cisco Partner since it helps them attain Silver or Gold status with Cisco. Sure, most non IT services businesses aren't going to go after a CCIE because they don't have need of someone with that level of technical talent, but who would want to work on one network all the time anyway right? I started out screwing 486's together in 1997. This past year I got my CCIE and made 109K. How's that for relevancy? I may not be designing network equipment, but I am designing technical solutions for business problems and that happens to be what I want to do.
Thanks for the affirmation.
I'm almost done with my Associate's degree, and ready to test for my CCNA.
I'm looking forward to earning my CCIE. Still.
i've worked at three different very large ISPs.
/. admins).
i also did not graduate from college, though i have four plus years under my belt and am completing my degree as we speak.
my point is this: why ask a stupid question like this? a job is what you make of it. if you're smart (or at least as much as you like to present), you'll do well regardless of the fleece that proves you've done it. if you aren't, you'll post dumbass slashdot questions like this and wish maybe you hadn't submitted a dimwitted question to equally dimwitted people (and yeah, i DO mean you
A degree in math focusing on discret mathmatics would better serve someone in networking than CS. Networking is a mindset of thinking how best to get from point a to z on a consistant basis no matter how many times the intermediate points in between them change. The network I and my 20 other collegues keep running is smallish with only about 3,500 locations. Our degrees range from liberal arts to hard science but not one of them is in CS. What we do have is an averge of 12+ years each in production networking.
Johns Hopkins is better. Plus, Baltimore can't be beat.
You don't go to college to learn about specifics on any one or two areas of Network Engineering. or for that matter, specifics about computer science.
At the least, in the ideal case, that should NOT be your goal. People do it, but then they are really wasting an opportunity.
You go to college to learn how to solve problems, and more important, how to ask questions and find problems. You can learn that from experience, but more than likely, in the short term, experience will teach you about any one particular thing, but not about how you should approach a problem.
I am not saying that experience, or knowledge about practical issues are not important. They are. But you should be looking at college as an opportunity to expand your ability to find and solve problems, but not as an opportunity to learn about, say, programming C.
Just a thought.
One of the nice things about our CS degree is that it is offered as both an Engineering and Literature Science and Arts degree - basically this means you can opt for more science/math related classes (and no foreign language requirement!) with the engin degree, or more humanities and social studies with the lsa degree.
The EECS department has a lot of ties with the School of Information and the Internet2 project, and they just broke ground on an incredible new CSE building that is going to be a nice place to do research and attend class. The classes are generally big but it's still easy to get to know the profs in office hours (especially if you chat with them about their research interests).
Since you probably won't be able to do much in networking until you work on your masters, another factor you might want to consider is grad school options - Michigan offers two great ones that might appeal to you:
1. CUGS (Concurrent Undergrad/Graduate) - You graduate in 5 years rather than 4, but come out with both a BSE and MSE. You can double-apply your grad school classes to your graduate and undergrad degrees, which may be a good option if you're interested in the grad-level networking offerings. Upside: much more depth; downside: less breadth.
2. 3.4 program - if you keep a 3.4 in your program (not an easy task, mind you) and overall, you are guaranteed a spot in the masters program, no questions asked. A bit more breadth than CUGS, but keeps you in school longer.
Advice for choosing a school: I'd say if you can find the money and time, go visit a few schools that you're really interested in. I had a really hard time choosing schools until I spent a day or two at each - I immediately fell in love with Michigan and will be for the rest of my life. This played a huge part in my decision. Spend some time at a few campuses and see what kind of 'vibe' you get from each one. FIGURE OUT WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU AND MAKE SURE YOU THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU CHOOSE A SCHOOL. You're going to invest a LOT of time (and money) there.
If you are interested in networking, check out the University of New Hampshire. The university's InterOperatbility Lab (IOL) performs interoperability and conformance testing on standards ranging from 802.3 Ethernet to MPLS to Wireless, etc.
Check it out at: www.iol.unh.edu
US Citizen, International Experience, Network expert and Speaker of Chinese.
Should do well.
Go somewhere like here:
Shanghai University - China
Computer School, Shanghai University - China
I sent this directly to the poster to make sure he didn't miss it, but I thought other's might benefit from my response:
"I know this was an old question for you, but I thought you might be interested in a response from someone who operates the Abilene backbone. There's a lot of other bits and pieces to "Internet2", but it sound like you're primarily interested in the traffic management aspects. This is all managed on a day to day basis at Indiana University by 7 Global NOC engineers and 2 sysadmins. Of course, there are many many other people at Internet2 (formerly known as UCAID - University Corporation for Advanced Internet Design) and within the higher ed community that make up what is collectively known as Internet2. The day to day traffic management, problem resolution, and router management happens at IU.
There are 7 engineers (http://www.abilene.iu.edu/engineers.html), coming from a few different backgrounds. Three of us have run-of-the-mill CS degrees. Three others have English degree backgrounds. One I'm not sure of. (Guess I should ask him.)
Some of us fell into the jobs through our previous affiliation with the University and a little bit of luck. I started working for the campus network folks when I was 21, a Junior. Within a year and a half, I was promoted to a Global NOC engineer, working on the TransPAC network (www.transpac.org). I was hired in with little interdomain routing experience to start, but I picked it up pretty quickly. None of this stuff is particularily hard, there's just a lot of it. Nothing in this area will be particularuly challenging for a CS major- especially one from CMU.
If you're still interested in getting involved, the best area to start looking is at your local campus level. CMU comes into Abilene via the Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center's connection to Washington.
Internet2 is, at it's core, an *application* research community. They do things like figure out how to make large amounts of data get from point A to point B in the shortest amount of time. Or figure out how to coordinate authentication amongst different sites. Or security. Or video. Etc. Etc. There aren't really any "network research" testbeds active in the US today except for those at the private level. And none of those are on a national scale. The next big thing is the rollout of the National Lambda Rail (NLR) network, which will provide different optical channels for different network infrastructure experiments. (e.g. "What will happen to the network if I introduce RIPv5.6a using multicast IPv6 as my IGP on the backbone? Will the routers explode?") I'm happy to say that IU will probably play a large role in this network as well. We've been awarded the call-center contract and have been picked to figure out what a layer2 and layer3 support infrastructure needs to be like and what the community needs. We're hopeful that we'll also get the final L2 and L3 support contract. Fortunately, it's looking pretty likely. CENIC (www.cenic.org) is going to manage the layer1 portion of the network, with North Carolina managing the interface to the researchers. (No one really knows what that means yet, exactly. Ideas are flying)
Hopefully that gives you a bit of useful background on where the US R&E networks are going. Remember, there's quite a bit of good work being done outside the US as well. GEANT and SURFNET in Europe are working toward similar goals. CA*Net4 in Canada is also on the cutting edge. APAN is bringing the Asian Pacific countries together. It's a fun world, with a lot of diverse players. Being in the right place at the right time counts, but it also pays to start small, gain some experience, and then go for the larger pie. "
Many would acknowledge that EE's are some of the best programmers. In addition, EE's that emphasize in network engineering understand all that there is to know about networks. So.... Look for a good program in electrical engineering. you'll end up a better programmer, know more about the actual network, and have a greater chance of working with internet2 and other developments than as a mere cs student. signed, a registered agricultural engineer.
All I need is this ashtray, these matches, and this lamp. And that's all I need.
In case you haven't noticed many of the quality software engineering, networking, and IT jobs which existed in the United States and Europe several years ago are moving overseas to places like India and China at a rather alarming rate. Do not believe for a second that those foreign workers are not every bit as qualified as you either (a scary thought to be sure). If that doesn't phase you then try this...they are willing to work for just $8,000 US per year (check out the cover story on Wired for February 2004). There is just no way that Americans and Europeans can compete with that. The writing is on the wall...by 2015 the number of American and European software engineers, network administrators, and IT personnel will be down to minimal levels and only the very best will be left in the industry. Any IT job that isn't somehow bolted to the floor or proximity dependent is going to go overseas. Those that do manage to keep stay in IT here in the United States will earn a yearly salary only slightly better than the national average of $42,400 per year in a very difficult and competitive environment. If all of this doesn't discourage you then by all means pursue an IT career, but I would have a plan B in case the whole IT thing doesn't work out.
Hey. I was thinking about either going for Computer Engineering or Elec Engineering. Any of you have a preference of either KU or K-State? I live in Kansas and only have around 40k to spend on college and I'd like to get a MS if possible. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jay
You do not say which country you come from. As there is more than one (honestly - check those big shapes on the atlas), it would help to narrow down your search by mentioning the country in which you wish to study.
There are two things I would recomend.
:-)
1) Go to a University that offers a year abroad as part of the course. I went from UK to Canada and the change of scenery, attitudes, cultures and teaching methods opened my mind far more than staying in one place would have.
2) Make sure your minor is in a foreign language. My First language is English - so I minored in Mandarin Chinese. Who ever you work for is going to have some international dealings - make sure your education reflects that. In Europe lots of people choose German (or English if they don't know it). I'd seriously recomend an "Asian" language like Chinese, Korean, Urdu... anything really.
An international degree and language show that you're not afraid of change, you have the dedication to learn totally new ideas and that you're willing to do what it takes to get the job done.
Right, this is where the (small) rant comes it
Only 1/5 of Americans hold a passport. I've been to your country and it is huge and impressive - but there's nothing like plonking yourself out in the midle of nowhere when you only have a basic grip on the language. That's what seperates then men from the boys. Go and explore the world - even if it's just a sleepy university town in England. You'll be rewarded with friends for life who'll let you visit whenever you feel like flying over, contacts around the world who're happy to hear from you, experiences that very few of your countrymen will have and a foothold in the international community.
So, yeah, reply if you want to know which UK Universities are good for computing.
T
If a square is really a rhombus, why aren't all triangles purple?
write a program that replaces a few co-workers and see your salary grow
at least, that is how I did it, and I don't have *any* degree
Double major of compsci and art (art so you can find a girlfriend, because Lord knows you wont in compsci). Or... go for an MBA, you will be able to do plenty of networking, and have a more stable career (see OUTSOURCING) at the same time.
Who moved my sig?
From the poster's website [www.pureimaginary.com/pi/]:
/. folk, if you care to know im no longer searching for the right college. im now at CMU studying CS and physics."
"UPDATE: it seems im getting a crapload of traffic from slashdot because apparently i put a link to the site in my post [1.5 years ago and its still here!]. so things may be a little slow. also, for you
US
- MIT
- Berkeley
- Stanford
- University of Washington
- UCSD
To a slightly lesser extent:Europe
Asia
Feel free to flame me for who I've missed off :-)
http://www.tech.purdue.edu/cpt/Information/Plans/C urrent/TNT%20POS.htm
As a (biased) alumni, I think Purdue is a hidden gem. Great reputation, good people, interactive alumni.
Ive come to that time in my life where I have to choose what colleges im going to apply to
/. thread 'Kids Improve Writing Online' for further info.
Maybe you should concentrate on getting your writing and typing skills up to par first.
See the
This may sound strange, but I would attend Indiana University. IU runs the Abilene/Internet2 network, and they also run the StarlIght (Chicago area) network, the AMPATH network (South America-US) TransPAC (Asia/Pacific-US) NaukaNet (Russia-US) Eurolink (Europe-US), NLR (another US National network) and the state of Indiana networks.
If you want to be a Network Engineer you need to attend Indiana University.
College teaches you things certifications don't. They're called people skills. I've met many people who didn't go to college but got certifications and they're terrible in social situations. They have a tendency to "nerd it up" and try to outsmart everyone in the room with jargon that has nothing to do with the situation.
What I would recommend is going to a college that provides certification classes, like A+, N+, MCSE (yes, I know I know) and pair that with a bachelor's degree or even better, a master's degree. The combination of the two shows that you have the people skills college offers with the technical knowledge of the certifications. HR people like to see a college degree. I've been reading job ads for the past few months and I have yet to see one that doesn't require a bachelor's degree. Go to college and have fun! If nothing else it allows you to stay out of the real world for 2-5 years and discover what you really want to do.Well the true question is how good do you honestly think you are. Many times going to a small Computer Science Department or Small college is very helpful because you are a big fish in a little pond. And you have the abilities to get involved with research projects and be able to get a college job in IT where you can actually get some experience with networks (although college networks are notoriously bad) You do know what not to do. Also check if there is an Internship program there and see if you can get an internship position in one of your favorite places.
The problem is when you go to a large College or University with a huge CS department, sure you can take the classes but you are fighting among the best and brightest for real experience, sure you can take the classes and learn some stuff but being involved is the best experience.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It sounds like you have a strong interest in high performance networking from your mention of Internet2, so you best gain will probably be from hanging out with people who are working on these projects while in undergrad, if this is possible. This should serve you much better than CCNA-type certifications which aren't nearly as focused on the bleeding edge. The key here is that you have to seek out and attach yourself to projects beyond what is offered by the CS curriculum. Your academic study is the basic thing you have to do, the really interesting stuff is participating in research.
That said, here are a few institutions for you to think about:
Indiana University - Home of the Internet2 NOC and has a lot of interesting research opportunities coming out of the Abilene Observatory project. Definitely a leader on the network operations side of things, a strong CS program and a fantastic CIO.
University of Michigan - A strong CS curriculm and many interesting things going on on campus. Also very close to Internet2 (also HQ'ed in Ann Arbor), so there might be opportunities to intern on projects there during the summers and during the year. The networking coordinator for the ATLAS project works in the UM Physics Department.
Cal Tech - Not really a safety school, but an interesting place to go if you can get in. A lot of networking research is done within Physics and at CACR, most notably the development of FAST TCP stack. Recently won an Internet2 Speed Record. A physics professor here (also strong ties to CACR) is the networking coordinator for the CMS collaboration (a detector at CERN's Large Hadron Collider).
University of Illinois Chicago - The Electronics Visualization Lab is doing really interesting work in both high performance networking and applications that can eat a lot of bandwidth. The lab director is one of the principals of StarLight, a major peering point for high speed research and education networks. Probably the coolest reason to go to EVL - they worked on the Death Star in Star Wars.
This isn't an exhaustive list of good places to go for experience in networking, but it's a few that come to mind. There are lots of other great places that aren't mentioned that would be great, too.
I would suggest you look for Computer Engineering program. C.U. Boulder, (a top engineering school), has a good program. It is in between Computer Science and Electrical Engineering as far as the split between software and hardware instruction. I believe this will have the most instruction in "network engineering". Then go after your CCNP in the Cisco Academy, it is a great program, but be ready to push yourself if you're working at the same time. With this you'll have better credentials than most anyone out there.
Teccart http://www.teccart.qc.ca is offering a good network 3 years diploma with excellent training in Windows/Linux/Novell/Cisco/TCP IP/a bit of prog, etc
Mess with the best, die like the rest
What kind of car should I buy?
Jeez what a "non-news" orientation we have now.
Oh and way to go a whole thread slamming us trench-workers who keep your I2 running. Several hundred posts so far comparing operations people to burger flippers.
I was hoping to find a college with a major, along the lines of Network Engineering, but I have yet to find one."
/. I'd guess you're a broadband thinker, and may not be happy in a vocational job all your life.
The reason is, most colleges are geared to train for higher-level jobs. When you say 'network engineering', you're thinking of how the job is now, with nuts and bolts and connections and packets. IOW, science, vs politics. But in the near future we'll be more and more abstracted from the hardware -- the difference between an 'object', and the 'symbol for that object'. Wouldn't be long before you're outclassed, and universities know this.
IOW, you think you want what I'd call 'vocational training', as opposed to university training. This may be where you're happiest, but given that you're on
Because university is a rare privilege in the U.S., I say treat it like buying a house, and get the biggest, best, and most you can possibly manage. You'd always have the option of being a network engineer if you want, but you'd also have much better doors to open with a graduate degree.
Campaign finance reform is national security.
I belive CMU is the No: 1 School for Computer Science in the country.
Try University of Texas at Dallas. they have a Bachelors in Telecommunications Engineering, www.utd.edu
I transfered here and I really like it. Except sometimes classes are tough. We only have 2 calculus classes while most other schools I know have 3 semesters of calculus, etc. like that
Well, I would say that since all the tech jobs are moving to India, and Purdue has a ton of Indians in tech-majors (including CS and Network Engineering) that Purdue must be the best. Obviously all the Purdue grads back in India have gotten jobs, so a Purdue degree means a job! Yeah!
I don't have time to make a sig
When I was reading about Cisco's Technical Assitance Center (TAC) it said that something like 2/3s of their CCIEs had degrees in Electrical Engineering.
Sounds to me like EE is the degree to get if you was a degree in "Network Engineering"
whatever you do not go to UNLV.. your just a statistic. No one really gives a shit about you. your better off using your tuition money as toilet paper.. then stick it in the lame ass professors faces when ur done..
I know Plymouth Uni is ok we had some students who come from there. To work at our company Network department
I am attending a community college for networking major (2 yr degree) after that i will probably transfer to a REAL college for more training in CIS (computer information systems). Hopefully this is the right route to go for a low budget!
Purdue not only offers CS and Computer Enginerring, but also a lot of hands-on networking through the Telecom & Networking tract in Computer Technology. If you really want hands-on network admin, design, etc., take a look at their program here.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)
Maybe it indicates a lack of WAPs.
Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)
It's a Network Engineering course, not Corporate Management. I don't think they have any non-technical courses anymore, except for multimedia.
Alright Kid, listen up. Here's how the technology field works, that most of these other employed geeks don't understand because they're not looking for a job NOW. I'm 26 years old, and I haven't finished my Bachelors. That's right. I'm not done. I worked for some very big Dot Com's since 1996, and in 2001 I was laid off. That was it. Laid off. Since then I've gone back to school, I've worked for myself since 2001, small group of clients, mostly part time, but trust me, I've been searching for a full time gig. If you check any of those online boards, you'll see the same thing. "4 year degree, plus MCSE, plus CCNA plus coding experience." - These companies are looking for jack of all trades. Someone to do the job of 5 people. Hopefully by the time you're looking for work things will be back to normal. The Tech industry is a 3 legged stool which is comprised of the following. Without the following, you'll have hella trouble getting a decent gig. 1. Education 2. Certification 3. Experience You need all 3. Start with the Bachelors. While you're in school, try to get a part time job or internship in the labs, or at a reputable company. That will help you with experience, which will also help you toward Certification. When you graduate with the bachelors, work toward the certs. This trio will get you in the door, and happily networking. Networking will also help get you in the door. That or pick a job that will actually make you some money. (Lawyer, Doctor, Stock Broker.) Good luck.
You don't say which side of the pond you're on, so I'll make the reasonable assumption that you're on this side. [Old joke, to make a point.]
Try Robert Gordons - they have a course in Network Engineering and Management (run by the School of Engineering, not the Computing Science Department - can't trust these silly CS people with some important engineering like a network). Prospectus at RGU.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Hi I'm a Sr. level Network Engineer. I have a degree from UMass in Management Info Systems not Comp Sci. You will need a degree no matter what others might say, as no one will hire you without one. Upon graduation I found a basic IT job and managed to start to "hang around" with the Network Guy's I slowly developed a rapport with them and convinced them over the course of the year I was at the company to show me the ropes. I then started to twist my job position into what I perceived I wanted. I checked with my manager and told him a head of time that I wanted to have a goal of having more networking involved in my job. He said it was all right and that gave me the go-ahead to Alter my job description and more importantly embellish my resume' to reflect more networking. A note of caution, DO NOT under any circumstances put something on your resume' that you cannot back up with at least knowledge in the subject. I have interviewed many people over the years and I usually give a basic skills test for networking, and it never fails to weed out the "Wanna-bees" to the real networking people.
After One calendar year (to the day) at that Job I interviewed at A very prestigious company in Biotech that is connected with MIT. I received the position there at Network Administrator. After four months my boss left the company, then my bosses boss left. Essentially leaving me totally responsible for the networking for the company running 47% of the federal governments Human Genome project, and many other projects as well. I tried to utilize the time without restraints as much as possible, or so I thought. I wrote up what I thought was a forward thinking plan to change out the network and make it more reliable/faster. Then I received news that my boss's boss position had been filled (IT Director). It turns out that they gave her a proverbial "Blank Check" to start off her budget as the Budget deadlines had already passed. She then came to me and told me to re-write my budget with everything I could possibly use and install in the course of the year. My revamped budget was for just under a Million dollars and had me gutting and rebuilding the entire companies network. It went great, and with minimal downtime. Everyone was greatly impressed with the speed and reliability increases. However then the trouble started. I was promoted half way through the year to Sr. Network Engineer, and someone was hired in as a "Peer", however through sabotage this peer managed to start people pointing the finger at me. I was eventually pushed out. My advise for you about this part is to always watch your back! My Final advice is to pick a good school, the best you and your parents can afford. Get a degree in what you can, If you can handle Comp Sci, that defiantly get it, though realize those guys that were having it easy in Info Systems wind up getting almost the same jobs as Comp-Sci. After Graduation get a basic IT job that pays you enough money and or will pay for some courses. Get you CCNA at least, however going beyond the CCNA is better but leads down two paths, security or networking. After a year or so at the Basic IT position start getting your resume' out for the Networking field. Defiantly use every option available to you, Headhunters, networking, web sites, etc The economy is still relatively tight so the "pure" networking positions are hard to come by with out good real world experience and the education to back it up....
BobMacOSX, because making *NIX better is a lot better than waiting for Micro$loth to fix Windows
Well, I'm a CS/ECE double major freshman at Worcester Polytechnical Institute and suggest you look into WPI as a school. The Computer Science department is highly respected among the other big-wigs in CS, such as MIT. As far as Internet2, well, we have that set up here and are a major contributor to the Internet2 community. In fact, we are helping other universities, including MIT, as well as government institutions in setting up Internet2. Check us out at wpi.edu. Alright, /plug.
--- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." -- Robert Heller
and just take classes from Devry or ITT Tech.
After reading some of people's responses, I see a lot of hootin' and hollerin' for just one solution or another. But in life, and especially now in the workplace, it's a combination of skills and talents. I went to CMU...started out as an engineer but went to Industrial Management (business) because I planned on starting my own some day. As someone else posted, CMU has some of the best programs in the nation/world for Business, CS, Art, etc. That being said, I got my ass kicked a few times there as did a lot of my friends. It's not the easiest of schools. But when you make it through there, life is pretty damn easy comparitavely.
Now to the main point of my post. As a business owner emphasizing in technology and a consulting in various netwworking, I've come to realize a few things over the years. Yes, I could have gone to an easier school and focused more on the "people networking", but I liked the challenge and being forced to stay on the cutting edge. Hence, put some weight on going to a good school but don't rely on it. It then makes it easier to do the "people networking" when you're schmoozing it up. "Oh, you went to CMU? Wow...impressive". It doesn't ALWAYS work, but at least you've got something good to talk about. Arming yourself with as much knowledge and more advantages than any other random Joe is always a key thing.
My suggestion...go to a good school. May not have to be the best, but get a good solid education. Work on your computer networking skills hands-on as much as possible. The stuff changes monthly. And never forget the importance of networking with the people.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang