Coffee is Addictive

zpok writes "According to scientists, coffee is really addictive, which I guess must mean they'll come in and confiscate your latte any moment now..." Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet.

Comments

Irresponsibility

[the_mad_poster]

...who released a study that could result in the official classification of the condition as a mental disorder.

Seriously... is there ANYONE in ANY part of this country anymore that just takes a little bit of responsibility for their own goddamn actions? The idea that the effects of drinking a cup of coffee could even be considered being classified as a "disease" is absolutely ludicrous.

People are so pathetic these days. I think the only disease involved in all this "you're not an irresponsible jackass, you just need medical help!" attitude is an acute affliction of stupid.

Re:Irresponsibility

[mcovey]

I didn't read the article I'm too jittery from the caffeine.

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[antifoidulus]

Wow, somebody didn't have his morning cup of coffee.... :P

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[gadget junkie]

In the case of coffee, I think the use of the word "addiction" is a severe misnomer. No one, not even someone with a severe case of geekyness, would drink a coupla mugs in the middle of one of the few nights he is not up surfing the 'net just because he is used to that, which would fit my definition of addiction.

Re:Irresponsibility

[andreMA]

The idea that the effects of drinking a cup of coffee could even be considered being classified as a "disease" is absolutely ludicrous

That's not what they're considering doing. They're talking about the symptoms that some regualt users of caffeiene experience upon sudden cessation. DSM is for the most part merely despriptive of various sets of symptoms and circumstances, including things like "Bereavement" (V62.82).

One can hardly claim that observing (and labelling) the fact that people are sad when a loved one dies is intended to absolve them of responsibility for their actions.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

you're basically right, but my cousin has come across someone with extream caffine addiction to the point of having shaking hands and having to constantly take caffine shots like a cocain addict. Your average coffee-drinker can avoid temptation by not buying the stuff, but people who've experimented with larger doses can be aflicted with an addiction like with hard drugs. Caffine is a drug, afterall.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Lars T.]

Well, there are a few things to it. For one, there are very few negative (and not too severe) effects of caffein but quite a few positive ones. Alcohol OTOH, while having positive effects in small dosis, will often make you lose control over how much you consume (IOW when you are drunk), so the severe short and long term effects kick in. When you are an alcoholic, you'll need to drink far above the healthy dose just to be "normal". Also there are very few "dry" alcoholics who can drink one glass and will not start drinking again.

Re:Irresponsibility

[_the_bascule]

Why not? People actually think Alcoholism is a disease. And if you know of someone who suffers from it you may well find that this is indeed the case. Alcoholics do not become so through the consumption of too much alcohol, rather they consume too much alcohol because they are alcoholics. The condition exists, the alcohol is one of many symtoms. Most medical dictionaries have alcoholism marked as a disease

Re:Irresponsibility

[Bastian]

Agreed. The real problem is that there are wacko shrinks out there who think that anything that shows up in the DSM must be treated. Such as the company shrink who made a member of my family take lithium to treat the bereavment she was still experiencing a week after her fiancee died in a car wreck. (true story)

I don't want a stop to the research and classification of various mental states. I want the psychological/psychiatric community to sit down and create some real standards for treatment, including some strict ethics and punishments for their violation. If a physician started prescribing morphine for stubbed toes, he'd run the risk of losing his license (we'll worry about the chronic problem of prescribing antibiotics for viral illnesses later), he'd lose his license, while the shrink community hasn't even gotten around to saying "it's something we should maybe consider not doing, we think."

Or worse yet, we still have Freudian analysts getting licensed and offering their "treatment." This would be like if the AMA licensed doctors who practised the purging of various bodily humors in order to restore their balance.

Re:Irresponsibility

[DigitalRaptor]

It may not be a disease, per se, but there is a very clear and very real genetic predisposition for some people to be alcoholics, and others to be able to drink half a glass and leave the rest on the table when they leave.

It's easy for the latter to judge the former, but that doesn't mean the condition is any less real.

It's like those that aren't succeptable to depression judging those that are, and telling them to just "shake it off" or "snap out of it".

That attitude shows a clear lack of understanding.

Re:Irresponsibility

[riscthis]

Maybe I've just become immune to caffeine, but I do drink a lot of caffeine-containing drinks throughout the day, and I can't say I've ever noticed being hyper from it. More to the point, I've never really noticed anyone else becoming hyper from caffeine either.

So I've been wondering if this is more a cultural expectation thing. In Britain it just doesn't seem to be discussed in the same way -- I've known people (including myself) complain of caffeine withdrawal symptoms -- evil headaches and suchlike -- but almost never about any "hyper" effects of over-consumption of caffeine.

Yet often American sitcoms will refer to coffee in reference to making people hyper, to the point where you'd think that half an espresso is meant to send you crazy. Or maybe it's genetic differences between the populations that mean that caffeine has different effects in the two countries?

Re:Irresponsibility

[DigitalCrackPipe]

Well, it's been common knowledge for a while that caffine is physically addictive. Anything that gives you headaches and the shakes for 3 days when you quit using it is physically addictive.

I personally feel there is some sort of mental defect in coffee addicts, but that doesn't relieve them of any responsibility in the matter.

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[allism]

Go buy a bag of chocolate-covered espresso beans and scarf em down. You'll know what caffeine jitters are then.

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[the_mad_poster]

Clarification: pop-sci-med idiots who gradutated from med school because they want to rake brittle people over the coals and steal their money will immediately lunge at the opportunity to begin counseling people for "caffieneism" or something. The drug companies will pop up with "drugs" that do absolutely nothing but claim they cure this "problem". There will be advertisements showing how horribly, horribly messed up the caffeine addict's life is and the little bouncing face will bound out into the daylight after dutifully downing the most recent discovery of Dow chemicals (yes, that alliteration was quite intentional).

I think the only reason this hasn't happened for alcoholics is that the risk of being sued into the next millenium is to great when people realize the drugs don't do anything except cause new problems.

Re:Irresponsibility

[base3]

and others to be able to drink half a glass and leave the rest on the table when they leave

These, I assume, are the people with a problem! Where I come from, that's called sacrilege!

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

ah the first stage: denial

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[daniil]

I guess it depends on the person, and probably on the drink as well. A 0,5l bottle of Coke is usually enough to turn me into a Duracell bunny; a cup of coffee will have the same effect (coming down from there is quite painful, though). At the same time, my usual litre and a half of green tea per day doesn't have that kind of effects.

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[admdrew]

I think a big part of it is the amount people consume. I drink (on average) a few cans/bottles of coke a day, so I've become accustomed to the caffeine enough that it barely affects me. *Not* having it, however, ends up sucking.

I have friends whose caffeine intake is minimal (if at all) in a normal day, so a single can of pop or a cup of coffee can keep them up for hours. It's all relative tolerance, like a lot of other drugs out there.

Re:Irresponsibility

[spiritraveller]

Seriously... is there ANYONE in ANY part of this country anymore that just takes a little bit of responsibility for their own goddamn actions?

Explaining and determining how you came to act in a particular way IS taking responsibility for your actions.

I think the only disease involved in all this "you're not an irresponsible jackass, you just need medical help!" attitude is an acute affliction of stupid.

You think it stupid that people examine and analyze situations instead of just belting out bold and unsupported statements like "that's ludicruous!"

Alright Monty Python, why don't you explain what is ludicruous about the fact that caffeine withdrawal turns people into crabs?

I'm going to get some coffee and come back... but don't worry, I'll be just as crabby after I get my fix.

Re:Irresponsibility

[linzeal]

Eat a lighter roasted bean raw it has more caffiene. I chow on some Kenyan AA in the freezer when I need to burn the midnight oil.

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[foreverdisillusioned]

Mods take note: this is called sarcasm. Or irony. Or something.

Point is, if alcoholism is a disease then so is caffine-ism. Also, if being "addicted" to a drug like marijuana/THC (which is not physically addictive) is a disease, so is every other psychological addiction out there--eating, shopping, TV, net, etc.

This is not to imply that these "diseases", these addictions are all of the same severity. But at a fundemental level, they all work the same and it's very bad science to call some of them diseases and dismiss the others as character flaws.

Re:Irresponsibility

[It'sYerMam]

The point is that lack of caffiene will cause withdrawal if you have previously drunk a lot.
The problem that I see with the case is that people who drink 9 cups of coffee in a day and then expect no adverse effects are just plain stupid. Normal consumption of coffee doesn't seem to impair those around me - it's those who have a coursework session from 1-6, or those who drink 5+ cups regularly.

Yes, caffiene is addictive. Yes, this is blatantly obvious and no, those who drink coffee normally don't suffer ill effects.

Of course, not everyone drinks in moderation, but then, at least coffee doesn't appear to make people violent, or cause car accidents. Caffiene is nowhere near as bad as alcohol, as far as drugs go. However, Marijuana is nowhere near as bad as Tobacco, so we may see more nonsensical laws (I'm not suggesting that caffiene is about to be classified)

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

I have 4-5 cups first thing in the morning but never any other time in the day. If I don't realise that I've forgotten to have my coffee, by lunchtime I'll feel so horrible that I can't function and go home thinking I'm coming down with the flu. This always surprises me because I'm not someone who drinks coffee all day long. My body is obviously accustomed to having low/no caffeine levels (i.e. after supper) without complaint, but if it stays that way for too long (i.e. next morning) then I fall apart.

Clearly it's an heroin-like addiction on a much smaller scale. It fails the "disease test" because I can kick it on my own, if I so desire (I don't). Alcoholics generally cannot stop drinking w/o help, even if they aren't necessarily suffering withdrawals symptoms.

Re:Irresponsibility

[jE]

No *slurp* that is not *slurp* true. It can't *slurp* be. I can *slurp* always stop if I *slurp* want to.

Just *slurp* watch me.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Explaining and determining how you came to act in a particular way IS taking responsibility for your actions.
No, it's not. Stop being a dumbass.

Re:Irresponsibility

[jswhiting]

there is a very clear and very real genetic predisposition for some people to be alcoholics

If you miss a class in college and say "my car broke down," or "the power went out and my alarm didn't go off," or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that you have to make up the work you missed.

Having a medical explanation for alcholism doesn't give an alcoholic the right not to own up to his/her actions, and I beleive the original point of this thread was that people are shirking responsibility. You can't point to a scientific study to remove your accountibility for drunk driving, or emotional abuse of your children.

I don't think you were claiming that, but I just want to make clear the difference I see between explanations (genetic predisposition etc.) and the bottom line - responsibility. They don't really affect each other, and dwelling on the former doesn't get you anywhere.

Re:Irresponsibility

[accelleron]

I used to drink quite a bit of caffeine (Bawls and Starbucks coffee, mostly), and it did get me quite hyper. My father once tried a red bull and almost went nuts.

Green tea, though... that stuff keeps you going well enough to recover from a Sunday Night CS tournament into a Moday Morning Test, and has yet to make me jittery... or insane.

Re:Irresponsibility

[accelleron]

"I'm not suggesting that caffiene is about to be classified"

If caffeine were classified, 90% of the world's geek population would go on strike.

Government officials beware: it's caffeine or y2k.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Wavicle]

Alcoholics drink too much alcohol because they are degenerate assholes.

Your real problem is that in your short 22 years you've never experienced what addiction is like and haven't yet developed the compassion to sympathize with those that have. Ripping a basement apart looking for hidden bottles is likely a symptom of the desperation to get a fix to quell the very real and very uncomfortable effects of withdrawal.

There are alcoholics out there that have a very real problem but are not mean drunks. Part of your problem seems to be your experience is narrow and you're okay generalizing that most drunks are belligerent and beat their family.

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[whidbey island geek]

Just to clear up any misconceptions, the more you process a coffee bean the more caffeine you remove.

As a former *$ barista and manager I know form where I speak. They spend a lot of time on coffee education if you are willing to listen.

If you want a better 'buzz' go with a lighter roast coffee. Darker roasts like French have been toasted longer to produce a deeper flavor but loose some of the caffiene in the process. The same is true for using an espresso roast for drip coffee. It makes a mean cup of coffee but sure has less caffeine than a cinniamon roast you will find in cheap 'over the counter' coffees in the supermarket.

Perhpas the biggest misconception is that multiple shots of espresso will really light you up. Wrong. All you are getting is a very concentrated flavor not a super boost of caffiene. That is cuz by the time it gets in to your latte the beans have been deeply roasted (to an espresso roast) and then 'super brewed' (as compared to traditional drip coffee)in the espresso maker. So if you are thinking that the quad shot Americano (espresso and water) you get to impress you buddies is some superdrink then just put on a dress and change you name to Sally. That is about as far removed from the 'manly' coffee my dad drank in the navy that you can get and still call it the same drink.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

No *slurp* that is not *slurp* true. It can't *slurp* be. I can *slurp* always stop if I *slurp* want to.

Just *slurp* watch me.

That man is addicted to giving blowjobs.

Re:Irresponsibility

[mooniejohnson]

No. ... Sorry, the voices in my head made me post that... I need my pills...

Re:Irresponsibility

[DigitalRaptor]

Indeed you are right.

I've never had a drop of alcohol in my life, and never plan to.

But I can look at my signifigant sweet tooth and other behaviors and know that were I to ever take a single drink, I would be an alcoholic. I have no doubt of that.

That same predisposition to "isms", does indeed affect my consumption of everything from caffiene to swedish fish (and other carbs).

The irony to this is that I have a healthy dosage of self-control and discipline. But in these areas the "ism" kicks in. Therefore, I'll never take a single sip of alcohol or a single drag on a cigarette (my common sense can keep me from both anyway).

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

In re to the portion that you quoted - the notion that we confiscate something just because it is addictive isn't correct: nicotine is far more addictive than many other drugs, laws banning alcohol has been removed in the past, Salvia may be addictive (not sure if it is still legal yet). Some also say the following are addictive: curry, internet, chocolate. The FBI won't come busting down your door if you advocate curry.

Re:Irresponsibility

[andreMA]

Such as the company shrink who made a member of my family take lithium to treat the bereavment she was still experiencing a week after her fiancee died in a car wreck. (true story)

I'm not a shrink, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As I recall, Lithium is most generally useful in bipolar disorder (a chronic metabolic condition) to control the manic leg of the cycle. Your family member is no doubt mourning, and such a sudden loss is obviously traumatic - so treatment for Acute Stress Disorder (analogous to PTSD without meeting duration requirements for that dignosis) with anti-anxiety and/or anti-depressant meds, along with counselling - would seem at more sane approach than chemical brain-bludgeoning with lithium salts.

My sypmathies for the loss your family suffered.

Re:Irresponsibility

[0racle]

While true, eating the bean directly will give you more then almost any made coffee, and he also said scarf down a whole bunch which would be a whole lot more then any cup of coffee.

Ignoring all that and moving on to your, 'to be a man have a light roast' some of us like a darker roasted coffee, and actually like espresso. If your drinking a coffee to impress people, your going to be a dick no matter what level of roast you drink.

All the previous is anecdotal evidence, but I do have extensive experience with many different types of coffee's, I go for taste, and while I do often prefer a stronger, darker roast I try all sorts of different ones. its nice that one beverage has so many different subtleties that change the experience just a little each time.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

I chow on some Kenyan AA in the freezer when I need to burn the midnight oil.

Isn't it rather chilly eating in the freezer?

Re:Irresponsibility

[drinkypoo]

I chow on some Kenyan AA in the freezer

Do you have a walk-in, or do you just curl up?

Re:Irresponsibility

[sk8king]

That statement makes me think I'm looking in the mirror. Never had a beer or anything [although I believe I have had a sip when I was younger...thimblefull maybe] and no cigarettes either. But when it comes to chocolate oh dear. A bag of any candy/chips/whatever...once open must be finished.

Ahhhh, Shrek Sized M&M's.....how come they aren't the standard size. ;)

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what you're saying is that an addiction IS a disease? I was under the impression that diseases are caused by micro-organisms. Maybe what you're talking about is a syndrome, condition, or such.

Re:Irresponsibility

[aulendil]

[snip] so treatment for Acute Stress Disorder (analogous to PTSD without meeting duration requirements for that dignosis) with anti-anxiety and/or anti-depressant meds, along with counselling - would seem at more sane approach than chemical brain-bludgeoning with lithium salts. [snip]

In what way that lithium is, is treatment with anti-anxiety/antidepressant meds not brain-bludgeoning?

Re:Irresponsibility

[drinkypoo]

Every stimulant, whether it be caffeine or methamphetamines, carries many of the same negative side effects. The results of consuming a stimulant compound are mostly a matter of scale. I guarantee if you consumed enough caffeine that your scalp would crawl and your heart would race and, if you continued to pound it down, you'd OD. Caffeine is never (?) served in such a concentration that such a thing becomes a serious risk but I've eaten enough chocolate-covered espresso beans to start sweating profusely and to be utterly unable to hold still. One imagines that someone with a weak ticker who chugged mountain dew while eating the aforementioned confection could keel right the fuck over and become an ex-human.

Many people DO consume too much coffee, and it keeps them up sweating at night, causes them to be jittery, and in general decreases their quality of life. However, on days when they skip their coffee, or even significantly cut back the dosage, they get headaches and turn into their Mr. Hyde equivalent. You know, kind of like the other legal stimulant you can buy at the gas station: cigarettes. Interestingly cigarettes also contain compounds which promote health, but I don't see too many people arguing that cigarettes are healthy. Guess what? Neither is drinking a whole bunch of coffee.

I agree that alcohol is far more insidious than coffee but don't pretend that there is a gigantic difference between them, other than the fact that one's a stimulant and the other's a depressant.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Joe Tie.]

I'd hazzard a guess that you're most likly just addicted to the point where you've built up a strong tolerence for it. Combined with the somewhat low amount of caffeine contained in soda, about 1/4 that of coffee. You'd have to go through around 8-16 500ml bottles within an hour of each other before getting what I'd consider a strongly psychoactive dose, and that'd be 'without' having much tollerence. Try two 200mg caffeine pills to see what people are talking about in regards to the stimulent effects.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Bastian]

I'm not a shrink, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Exactly

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you didn't have your coffee today!.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds to me thatyou're an alcoholic in denial.
If your Dad's buddies are/were all alcoholics as you proclaim, then more likely than not he is/was one as well.

Since they have concluded that alcoholism is a genetically passable trait it would appear you too then have said genetic marker.

You're in the denial stage right now. Hence, you claim everyone else is alcoholic degenerate assholes, but not you and ole daddy!

I hope you reconsider your position and go get some help it really sounds like you need it.

I would hate to see you on the side of the road giving blowjobs for fifths of thunderbird.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

shut the fuck up you god damn coffee snob.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Joe Tie.]

90% of any working population I'd wager. I stopped using anything with caffeine after really watching my coworkers in a generic little office while at the same time wading through studies looking at performance hits from caffeine withdrawl. As much as I know there's also some social component to relaxing around the coffee pot as it brews up, it was a little too similar to people standing in line for methadone to not disturb me just a little.

Re:Irresponsibility

[slavetrade55]

Sounds to me thatyou're an alcoholic in denial.
If your Dad's buddies are/were all alcoholics as you proclaim, then more likely than not he is/was one as well.

Since they have concluded that alcoholism is a genetically passable trait it would appear you too then have said genetic marker.

You're in the denial stage right now. Hence, you claim everyone else is alcoholic degenerate assholes, but not you and ole daddy!

I hope you reconsider your position and go get some help it really sounds like you need it.

I would hate to see you on the side of the road giving blowjobs for fifths of thunderbird.

Oh no! Your awesome retort has shamed me! My drinking on Fridays with other grad students is a sure sign of my rampent genetically inherited alcoholism! I sometimes drink on SATURDAYS too! I'm getting shaky!!!

And as for my father, I don't remember him ever hiding liquor bottles inside the vacuum cleaner. He does have quite the liquor cabinet though, filled with liquor. And even some wine in the cellar. But I suppose alcoholics are famous for keeping the same bottles of liquor for months at a time without drinking them.

Why Daddy?! WHY??

Re:Irresponsibility

[KrisW]

If your drinking a coffee to impress people, your going to be a dick no matter what level of roast you drink. Well put.

Re:Irresponsibility

[KyleCordes]

Here is a point of view on this seems ideally balanced, to get flamed from both sides:

For a person to get to a high, constant level of drinking, is an act of great irresponbility and foolishness, a wrongdoing against oneself and everyone around.

Having gotten there, the enormous physiological difficulty in stopping, appears to be a bona fide disease.

Re:Irresponsibility

[maxpublic]

You're ignoring the fact that the 'counseling' industry is a huge money-maker for the participating therapists. More mental disorders means more people who're convinced they need treatment means more money in the bank for the practitioners.

The real beauty of the system is that many of these classifications are specious at best and often vague to the point of being useless. Even better there's little evidence to indicate that most forms of therapy are in any way effective at treating the problem (real or imagined), so you can treat patients for YEARS - and then blame it on the patient if the treatment doesn't work.

There's a whole lot of snake oil on the counseling side of psychology, and no lack of salesment to sell it.

Max

Re:Irresponsibility

[maxpublic]

I personally feel there is some sort of mental defect in coffee addicts

Nice work, getting your troll modded 'insightful'.

Max

Re:Irresponsibility

[Wavicle]

I was under the impression that diseases are caused by micro-organisms.

A disease could be caused by micro-organisms. But other than that, you are uninformed. Learn more here.

For instance: autoimmune disease. Pretty hard to have one of those according to your definition unless you yourself are a micro-organism.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you got _chocolate-covered_ espresso beans in the States? Crap!

Re:Irresponsibility

[goldmeer]

Maybye if it became vouge to utter something to remind oneself that you choose to drink coffee or ingest other body chemistry altering substances, things would be better. Maybe personal responsibility would spill over into other parts of life.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of coffee that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe 'he' is a 'she' ?

Re:Irresponsibility

[Squarepusher]

Naw, you're just thinking of the media portrayal. Have you ever smoked pot? Notice how overly exagerated the high is on TV and in the movies. Most of the time they make it appear as though the person were on an LSD trip rather than having smoked a bit of grass. If you haven't smoked it then just take my word for it I guess...

The "hyper" effects of caffeine are more like an on edge jittery feeling. Probably some people are a lot more susceptable to it than others. I used to drink espresso's and have a few shots added to the drink, but I found that it made me feel almost as if I hadn't eaten anything for a long time. Yanno, like when you're so hungry you feel weak and shaky. I never feel hyper with too much caffeine, but I think it's the jitteryness that some feel which gets that lable placed on them.

I drink two cups of coffee in the morning and usually some caffinated soft drinks here and there, but I've never thought myself to be addicted at all. I also used to smoke a cigarette every hour, but I didn't have any trouble going to just one or two a day. I'll even go a week sometimes where I don't smoke at all, it's just that different situations kinda trigger a bit of desire in me. Psychological rather than physiological. So, I tend to believe that some people become addicted to substances much more easily than others. As always TV and the news will paint a very skewed picture of...well, of anything they get their hands on. : ) Oh, and I very much agree with the first post in these comments!

Re:Irresponsibility

[El Puerco Loco]

What is irresponsible is the way the popular press throws around terms like addiction. The article describes at best a minor physical dependency on caffeine which results in some unpleasant symptoms if it is suddenly withdrawn. One can demonstrate dependencies like this with a lot of things, including laxatives and decongestant nasal sprays. The picture of addiction that most people have in mind is one of the heroin user who has to steal to support his habit, or the crack user who sells her body on the street to support hers. The word addiction is derived from the Latin addictus. In Roman times a writ of addictus was a document bonding a person to servitude or slavery. Addiction has no precise scientific meaning and there is no classification of any disorder as addiction in the DSM, but if the word is to mean anything it should describe an extreme state that resembles enslavement to a substance. To conflate dependence on caffeine with addiction to heroin or cocaine is completely inaccurate and irresponsible.

Drugs which are truly addictive are those which strongly affect the reward mechanisms in the brain, such as opiates, cocaine, and amphetamines. Of these, only the opiates produce a severe physical withdrawl syndrome. If overcoming the physical symptoms of withdrawl were the only problem, then we would have no heroin addicts. The solution would simply be to lock them away for a few weeks until the withdrawl sickness subsided, and after that they would have to be a fool to return to using the drug. Of course many addicts do return to using so there must be some other reason than preventing withdrawl symptoms.

Truly addictive substances like cocaine and heroin affect the brain's reward mechanisms so strongly that they can subvert these mechanisms to the point where they can become not just a desire but a drive. At that point suggesting a person quit using the drug is like suggesting he stop eating or drinking or having sex. The body simply will not allow it. In fact the reward the brain receives from drug use is so strong that it tends to trump all other drives so that a person will worry more about where his next fix is coming from than his next meal. A person in this state really does have very little control over his actions. True, he had a choice of whether or not to use the drug in the first place, and he is responsible for that poor decision, but in a state of addiction, his body's needs are in control. That is why it makes sense to restrict the use of such substances; they do, in a very real sense, take away an individual's responsiblility for his actions.

Animal studies show that animals will self-administer cocaine and heroin with enthusiasm. In fact they will do so to the exclusion of all other activities, including eating, drinking, and sex. When given the choice between cocaine and food, cocaine wins. They will stick with the cocaine lever until they starve. If allowed to, many will administer the drugs until the point of death. In contrast, it is difficult to get an animal to self-administer caffeine at all. Same goes for nicotine by the way. Animals do not even show a preference for caffeine laced sugar water over plain sugar water. Indeed, in double-blind studies, not many human subjects show a preference for caffeine over a placebo.

The word addiction is primarily a political term. The negative image of crack and heroin addicts is so strongly ingrained in peoples' heads that any group seeking to discourage use of a substance can only help their cause by finding some evidence that it is "addictive", but such usage, when it describes only physical withdrawl symptoms, especially very minor ones like the caffeine studies show, completely misrepresents the facts. People keep drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes because they like to. Junkies and crackheads keep using because they have to. It's not the same thing.

Re:Irresponsibility

[McDutchie]

Seriously... is there ANYONE in ANY part of this country anymore that just takes a little bit of responsibility for their own goddamn actions? The idea that the effects of drinking a cup of coffee could even be considered being classified as a "disease" is absolutely ludicrous.

Interesting that you would imply that having a mental disorder abdicates a person from being held responsible for their actions. In my opinion, that view reflects one of the most damaging prejudices against people with mental conditions.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Daetrin]

Darker roasts like French have been toasted longer to produce a deeper flavor but loose some of the caffiene in the process. The same is true for using an espresso roast for drip coffee.

And don't forget the Starbucks "cremate the coffee beans and then glue the ash back together into a bean-shaped lump" method of roasting.

It's pathetic that Starbuck's ubiquitousness has convinced most americans that that's the way coffee is supposed to be.

Re:Irresponsibility

[miskatonic alumnus]

You are not drinking NEAR enough of it then. Like the guy said in "I Come in Peace" while adding pure caffeine to his cup of coffee, the usual stuff couldn't keep a lab rat awake. I drink so much coffee and tea that I couldn't sleep without it.

Re:Irresponsibility

[dylain]

Um, have you ever heard of the shakes? People have died from alcohol withdrawal.

Re:Irresponsibility

[nmk]

You're right, you should cut down on whatever it is you're drinking. It's making you type "slurp" repetitively.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Xoder]

Lithium is actually toxic, and its a real bad thing to take it for an extended period of time. Traditional anti-anxiety/antidepressant drugs are less toxic.

This is not to say I agree with the suggestion that meds are requried for grief lasting a week, quite the opposite.

Re:Irresponsibility

[SvnLyrBrto]

There's a simple and easy way to counter that, though.

Just recognize it, and account for it. If you assume that it's all roasted darker than normal, just buy one step lighter than you normally would. Don't bother with their french roast at all, and if you like other french roasts, go with italian roast, and so on.

cya,
john

Re:Irresponsibility

[WormholeFiend]

that's why people make *fingerquote* blends *fingerendquote*.

I like to blend super-roasted coffee with near-green beans. Flavor AND Buzz.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Daetrin]

The problem is i'n not buying beans from them, i'm buying coffee. The last time i went to a Starbucks i asked him what the roast was of the coffee they were serving, and he didn't know! I decided to try it anyways, since it was 11:30 at night and nowhere else was open, and it was burnt bitter crap.

Re:Irresponsibility

[miskatonic alumnus]

Perhpas the biggest misconception is that multiple shots of espresso will really light you up. Wrong.

Not a misconception: a fact. If the espresso isn't pepping me up, what is? The demi-mug?

All you are getting is a very concentrated flavor not a super boost of caffiene. That is cuz by the time it gets in to your latte the beans have been deeply roasted (to an espresso roast) and then 'super brewed' (as compared to traditional drip coffee)in the espresso maker.

This flies in the face of a chemical experiment I did in organic lab. We STEAM EXTRACTED caffeine from some coffee grounds. You wouldn't believe the volume of crystals that precipitated from solution. "Super brewing", by which I take it you mean steam extraction, does an excellent job of pulling caffeine from the grounds.

Re:Irresponsibility

[cfuse]

Perhpas [sic] the biggest misconception is that multiple shots of espresso will really light you up. Wrong.

Speaking as a country recently afflicted by the curse of Starbucks, I concur with your point to a degree. Starbucks coffee is weak as piss.

Re:Irresponsibility

[slavetrade55]

Um, have you ever heard of the shakes? People have died from alcohol withdrawal.

So long karma, but No, I've never heard of the shakes. Is that the medical term for "bad hangover"? I guess it might be possible to die from a hangover...

That sound you hear is the world's smallest violin playing just for all those alcoholics who've died of the shakes. Or maybe it's the sound of me just not giving a damn.

Re:Irresponsibility

[bumski]

More importantly, does the light really go out?

Re:Irresponsibility

[shaitand]

No it's a disease. Being emotional wrecks and staying in a drunken slumber 24/7 does NOT make an alcoholic.

Being born with a physical condition which causes alcohol to mix with certain endorphines in your brain creating a substance with addictive characteristics similar to herioine. THAT makes you an alcoholic.

Alcoholism IS a disease, a very real physical disease. An alcoholic can never see or drink alcohol in their life and their no less an Alcoholic.

Re:Irresponsibility

[skraps]

Peter: When you come in on Monday and you're not feeling real well, does anyone say to you, "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays?"
Lawrence: Shit, no man. I believe you'd get your ass kicked saying something like that, man.

:-)

Re:Irresponsibility

[TheLittleJetson]

Yet often American sitcoms will refer to coffee in reference to making people hyper, to the point where you'd think that half an espresso is meant to send you crazy.

I live in the states... I think the anti-drug message that has been beaten into peoples brains, makes them eager to feel effects of a drug. Mild mannered old ladies will still love to kid about how the anesthetic at the dentist made them feel. To anyone who has a decent first-hand understanding of how drugs work, it's not a big deal, but to someone with less experience, they might get a cup of coffee from starbucks and start on with their "I CAN HEAR COLORS" rant.

Much of this same behavior can be observed in children. They'll take a sip of dad's beer or whatever, and start acting drunk.

...I hope that made sense. In any case, caffiene definately does have noticeable stimulant effects. I don't notice it from sodas. I do notice it from tea but it's very gradual. If you want to see what I'm talking about, cut off your intake for a few days, then drink a double shot of espresso straight. I still don't get hyper, but I definately get some stimulant effects... Can't sit still for long, feel wide eyed and awake, etc... About like a bump or two of coke would do. :-P

Re:Irresponsibility

[ceallaigh]

Stop Drinking Coffee, and see how your first day sans your morning Cup feels...

Re:Irresponsibility

[UserGoogol]

Can't it be both?

You are your brain. When you suck, it means your brain sucks. When a part of your body is faulty, it's sometimes classified as a disease.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Hanji]

Not a misconception: a fact. If the espresso isn't pepping me up, what is? The demi-mug?

Placebo effect?

Re:Irresponsibility

[dylain]

My mother is an alcoholic, you fucking asshole. Have you no compassion? Or do you simply thrive on being an asshole because it makes you feel better?

Re:Irresponsibility

[miskatonic alumnus]

Hmmm. Maybe caffeine has no physiological effect on the body at all? Perhaps it's all placebo effect. I doubt it.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Then again, there are valid therapy treatments. Sure, there are probably lots of people who will convince patients to keep coming back for years without actually helping them, but your basic complaint applies equally well to the pharmacological industry and even some medical doctors.

I have some personal experience here. A number of years ago, my wife made me go in for counseling because I was seriously depressed. Clinically, it turns out, and after participating in individual and group therapies for 6 or 8 months, I was a lot better. Do I still have depressive tendencies? Sure, but I have tools for dealing with the thoughts and mental states that exacerbate those tendencies, and for the past 4 years I've been a much happier camper overall than I had been ever since I was a teenager.

So yes, let's be cautious, but let's not shoot down psychology/psychiatry over some "snake oil" pushers. There are good things going on there, too. I would wager much more than there are bad.

Re:Irresponsibility

[slavetrade55]

My mother is an alcoholic, you fucking asshole. Have you no compassion? Or do you simply thrive on being an asshole because it makes you feel better?

Without knowing more about your situation, it's hard for me to judge, but if your mother really is an alcoholic and her drinking is having a negative impact (that's a pretty weak way of putting it, I know) on you and whoever else is in your family, I'd say she's the asshole, not me.

Well maybe I am too. But her drinking is no one's fault but her own, that much I am sure of.

Re:Irresponsibility

[LS]

...is there ANYONE in ANY part of this country anymore that just takes a little bit of responsibility for their own goddamn actions

Yo man, calm down there, I think you might have a DSM categorical illness, but I'm not sure which one. The article simply states that the withdrawal effects are of a negative mental nature, and thus can be categorized in the DSM, which doesn't only hold major illnesses, but minor ones too. It says nothing about responsibility. I have no idea where you got that, and why everyone is moderating you up with their fists in the air in agreement.

LS

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a sociophobic and suffering from anxiety, I can certainly feel the ill effects of caffeine. It basicly makes all the symptoms worse and for some people it can provoke anxiety attacks.

This is all from personal experience and from people I know, but there's a pattern too obvious to be ignored...

Re:Irresponsibility

[St. Arbirix]

That sounds like Libertarian propaganda to me.

P.S. I'm a firm supported of the Libertarian party and even more so Bash #4753

Re:Irresponsibility

[jwdb]

Like any drug, it depends on your tolerance. I used to drink an insane amount of cola when I was younger, and could go to sleep after drinking half a bottle. Stopped for a number of years, and now a can will keep me alert for half a day.

Jw

Re:Irresponsibility

[Disevidence]

I think you might have an equally bad problem expecting compassion from people over the internet.

There are assholes everywhere. How about you ignore them?

Re:Irresponsibility

[greg_barton]

Seriously... is there ANYONE in ANY part of this country anymore that just takes a little bit of responsibility for their own goddamn actions?

Seriously... is there ANYONE in ANY part of this country anymore that doesn't realize we're physical beings and that our actions are completely caused by brain chemistry?

You know what's pathetic? There are still people out there who don't know that their brain is made up of a highly complex mix of physical connections between neurons, electrical impulses, and chemistry. They don't realize that the substances we ingest can alter that system radically, or stubbornly hold onto the silly notion that what you injest cannot affect your personality or the choices you make.

Re:Irresponsibility

[imuffin]

Perhpas the biggest misconception is that multiple shots of espresso will really light you up. Wrong. All you are getting is a very concentrated flavor not a super boost of caffiene. That is cuz by the time it gets in to your latte the beans have been deeply roasted (to an espresso roast) and then 'super brewed' (as compared to traditional drip coffee)in the espresso maker. So if you are thinking that the quad shot Americano (espresso and water) you get to impress you buddies is some superdrink then just put on a dress and change you name to Sally. That is about as far removed from the 'manly' coffee my dad drank in the navy that you can get and still call it the same drink.

I've heard this common misconception that espresso doesn't have very much caffeine repeatedly, even from those I would expect to know better. Can you point me to some supporting evidence that espresso isn't high in caffeine?

According to the Coffee Faq, a 7 oz serving of drip coffee has 115-175 mg of caffeine, while a 1.5-2 oz. shot of espresso has about 100 mg. So while drip coffee may indeed have more caffeine per serving than espresso (and that's if your "serving" is a single shot), espresso has dramatically more caffeine per volume.

In fact, if we average the ranges given above, a 7 oz. serving of drip coffee has (115 + 175) / 2 = 145 mg, or (145/7) 21 mg per onuce.

A 1.75 oz. shot espresso would have 100 mg, or (100 / 1.75 ) 57 mg per ounce.

That means that, on average, espresso will have about three times as much caffeine per volume as drip coffee per volume.

If you're in a hurry and want lots of caffeine, a quad-shot Americano would in fact be essentially straight caffeine: 1.75 oz X 4 = 7 oz. of espesso. That doesn't leave much room for the water, does it? And it'll pack a punch of 400 mg of caffeine.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Wavicle]

No, I've never heard of the shakes. Is that the medical term for "bad hangover"?

The medical term is "tremor." They are involuntary movements and a symptom of alcohol withdrawal which generally goes away when the affected person has a drink. Many alcoholics claim that they cannot function without a drink and the reason for this is the withdrawal symptoms, including small things like anxiety and tremor, and going all the way up to grand mal seizure.

Here is a useful site giving some diagnostic information on alcohol withdrawal, including why it is that some people die from alcohol withdrawal:

Episodes of delirium tremens have a mortality rate of 1 to 5 percent.

Re:Irresponsibility

[jshaw]

I recently cut my caffeine intake to about 10% what it used to be, if that much. Roughly every other morning I'll drink a cup of coffee with my mother-in-law, but that's all I have now. I've switched to drinking caffeine free sodas. And now that I'm over the horrible headaches (and they /were/ bad) I do just fine with a limited intake. And just to prove how addicting caffeine is, just drink some Coke or Pepsi after breaking the addiction... that stuff tastes horrible. I know the only reason I ever drank it was for the caffeine. I can't touch it now.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Ptraci]

For people who aren't addicted already, yes they can get "jitters". The only math test I ever flunked (calculus) was taken after having three cups of coffee at lunch. The next test I aced, after having three beers. The coffee got me so hyper I couldn't think.

Re:Irresponsibility

[caswelmo]

I think that's Starbucks new slogan: "Burnt, Bitter Crap. Mortgage your home and get some today!"

Re:Irresponsibility

[Wavicle]

Also, if you could cite me a study that says definitively that alcohol is physically addictive, please do.

I'm not sure why that's important, but here is a journal article concerning withdrawal from heavy alcohol use.

But you're right, perhaps I shouldn't generalize--not all alcoholics are wife beaters. But how many alcoholics would I have to meet for you to say that my experience isn't "too narrow"?

A properly randomized sample of about 100 would probably be adequate at the 80% confidence level. The method of properly getting that sample is rather difficult though. It is estimated that about 10% of the population is susceptible to alcoholism, but many of those who are susceptible will have chosen not to drink. You'll likely have to interview about 2000 people, ask a battery of questions to both them and a significant other to determine if they are alcoholic and if so are they more abusive than the non-alcoholics.

And finally, no I've never experienced what addiction is like, though if alcohol were actually physically addictive, I and many of my friends should be junkies by now. But we aren't, because we have common sense.

It has nothing to do with common sense. About 90% of the general population is not prone to alcoholism. The number varies among different ethnic groups. If you chose your friends at random, we'd expect to see 1 in 10 of them have issues with alcoholism. However, unless you are very unusual you don't choose your friends at random.

Coincidentally you do see similar things even for hard drugs. If the entire population of the country were given a hit of crack, most of them would not turn in to junkies. There is something different about those who will become junkies and we don't yet understand exactly what. Whatever it is, it is not simple and is an active area of research.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Lars T.]

Sure, there is no difference between between being so drunk that drinking more is a "no brainer" and having consumed so much caffein that deciding "thenextesspressowillstoptheshaking". And the same goes for a cold turkey with either being grumpy with a headache and well, first getting basically the symptoms you describe for an caffein overdose (maybe worse), in hard cases followed by delirium tremens with possible deadly consequences.

Re:Irresponsibility

[the_mad_poster]

Are there STILL people like YOU who are too STUPID to grasp the concept of RESPONSIBILITY?

If it's going to fuck you up, don't drink it. Oh? You're an alcoholic? No. You were too fucking stupid to not drink beyond your limits, and now you can't stop. YOUR FAULT. You can't concentrate because you had too many cups of coffee? No, you were too fucking stupid to drink it in moderation. Them chemicals in your brain were all screwed up because you took acid and shot somebody? NO. YOU were too goddamn STUPID not to take it IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The only problem with people who are "addicted" to these things that screw up the human brain is that the jackasses were dumb enough to start taking them in the first place. We don't need to work on "cures" for mock diseases centered around addictions, we need to work on a cure for stupid so that stupid people don't get themselves addicted to things in the first place. If YOU picked up a bottle and started drinking, it's YOUR fault your an alcoholic. If YOU picked up a scoop of coffee and made a cup, it's YOUR fault your a jittery addict. If YOU went to the club and took ecstasy, IT'S YOUR OWN GODDAMN FAULT AND SO IS EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS AS A RESULT.

Re:Irresponsibility

[dylain]

She's been sober for months. (She's still an alcoholic, of course, and that fact apparently wouldn't make sense to you.)

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ban your post. You spelled "their" and "ludicrous" improperly. This is slashdot, and by God we want to see "they're own goddamn" and "ludacris" and "effect's". This just won't do.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a light in your freezer, that's a big freezer. Did it come with meat hooks on rails on the ceiling?

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes, it can be another disease causing a feedback loop.

Re:Irresponsibility

[slavetrade55]

Nice. At least I learned something today.

On the other hand, the guy I mentioned in my modded-to-oblivion post wasn't quite there yet. No tremors or hallucinations, it was just him being a mean drunk.

Re:Irresponsibility

[ragnar]

So true. I've become fond of espresso since visiting Italy and finally found a good barista locally. Anytime I mention getting a good cafê someone pipes in about getting jolted by it. What the don't realize is that an espresso is effectively a cup of coffee distilled into a very small cup. The caffein content is the same as the watered down American style coffee. Go figure.

Re:Irresponsibility

[slavetrade55]

She's been sober for months.

Good for her. I hope it stays that way.

Re:Irresponsibility

[miskatonic alumnus]

And, further down the page, we see that espresso roast is 1.32% caffeine, in a range of 1.17% to 1.37% for represented blends/roasts. In fact, there isn't a great deal of variance between the varietals and straights either. But what do I know? I haven't had the decades of serious training in all the intricate details of coffee brewing and caffeine extraction that the employees at Starbucks receive.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure he meant that *extra* pep you were feeling. Not all on a whole.

Re:Irresponsibility

[PReDiToR]

Back in the 90s a friend of mine described one of his best legal highs, and it involved caffeine.

He took a fortnight out from all caffeine, pop, coffee, tea, pro-plus and all the rest. He made sure that he was totally caffeine free for the whole 14 days, then at the end of it he popped two pro-plus (caffeine tablets) and washed them down with a litre can of Coke. He said it was better than amphetamine, and legal to boot.
I should point out that we are UK residents, and having a cup of coffee is a 30 minute-ly occurrence, with no hype about it, just a coffee and no wall bouncing.

Re:Irresponsibility

[brianosaurus]

Not to mention that different substances can affect different people differently. Just because HE hasn't felt those effects (for whatever reason) doesn't mean they don't happen.

I've personally felt both the hyperactive and the "withdrawal" effects, multiple times, so I know it happens. The headaches from a drastic reduction of caffeine intake (like going from, say, a gallon of Coke a day, for a month or so, to zero, as I did once in college) suck like you wouldn't believe, unless you've had them. But I have no one to blame but myself.

Re:Irresponsibility

[miskatonic alumnus]

And I'm sure that I mean that unless there is zero mg of caffeine in espresso, that drinking espresso results in caffeine intake which yields an enhanced feeling of pep --- unless mathematics has changed in the last couple of hours.

Re:Irresponsibility

[greg_barton]

we need to work on a cure for stupid so that stupid people don't get themselves addicted to things in the first place.

I agree with you there, but the cure is probably going to be chemical and/or genetic. If there was an effective behavioral cure for stupidity we would have found one by now. The human race has been searching for one since we gained sentience. If we were going to find a behavioral solution I think we would have by now.

Re:Irresponsibility

[greg_barton]

Oh yeah.

Screaming, "IT'S YOUR FAULT" doesn't solve shit, so shut the fuck up.

p.s. If you're angry with me IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT, so SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Re:Irresponsibility

[drinkypoo]

Your amazing ability to put words in my mouth (in my hands?) does not change what I actually said. The fact is that people abuse both; both are drugs; and while caffeine is not commonly as abused as alcohol, that's only because it's not packaged that way. The reason is that stimulants are generally more dangerous than depressants. Not to discount all the people who drink themselves to death every year, but typically people will pass out before they drink themselves to death. (Choking on one's own vomit is another issue best solved by having friends that will watch out for you... And a digression.) We put enough alcohol in a single bottle to kill a person; it's hard to find a preprepared coffee drink that will do the same thing to you, although it is possible to purchase coffee concentrate in little juice bottle sized containers.

When I was a security guard, I found myself taking shots of coffee concentrate to stay awake. One shot = one pot of coffee. If I didn't have my coffee I was incapable of remaining awake, because I formed a habit.

In short, we have problems with alcohol in part because we make it easy to binge. Coffee binging is more difficult than alcohol binging if for no reason other than the concentration of caffeine found in coffee.

Re:Irresponsibility

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

What the fuck does responsibility have to do with classifying something as a mental disorder? Are you denying the effects of caffine withdrawal or something? Why the hell are you trying to draw a link between responsibility and mental disorders? Are you saying all people with mental disorders are resposnsible? You make no sence.

Re:Irresponsibility

[mOdQuArK!]

So if you are thinking that the quad shot Americano (espresso and water) you get to impress you buddies is some superdrink then just put on a dress and change you name to Sally.

While it isn't as strong as a 4-cup equivalent of "normal" coffee, a quad-shot espresso still has enough caffeine to give you a decent buzz. (Yes, I have done the comparison :-)

That is about as far removed from the 'manly' coffee my dad drank in the navy that you can get and still call it the same drink.

Gah - "Navy coffee"! If this is the same stuff that one of my coworkers prepared and called Navy coffee - about 6 times the recommended amount of "Folgers" (or whatever cheapie instant equivalent was available), and allowed to boil down on the heating plate for 3-4 hours before consumption. (Apparently this "cooking" time was important to make sure that all of the essential coffee-flavoring oils were made rancid.) I guess you could call it manly - I called it a substitute wood stainer.

Re:Irresponsibility

[RWerp]

90% of any working population I'd wager.

To carry the point further, coffee did affect social relations in the past very strongly. Communist Poland did not import much coffee due to scarcity of foreign currency, but in western Poland (Silesia), where coffee was very popular, coffee was always sold, especially at harvest time. Even an authoritarian regime did not dare to piss off workers by taking away their coffee.

Re:Irresponsibility

[mnemotronic]

Maybe I've just become immune to caffeine, but I do drink a lot of caffeine-containing drinks throughout the day,

This sounds familiar to me, having some personal experience with other, more widely-acknowledged addictive substances.

I've never really noticed anyone else becoming hyper from caffeine either.

You should see my mom after a mug of regular coffee. She's normally pretty active, but after a dose of caff, she's trying to be in 3 places at once. For myself, I've been told I'm relatively slug-like on those mornings when I can't get to my french press.

So I've been wondering if this is more a cultural expectation thing. In Britain it just doesn't seem to be discussed in the same way -- I've known people (including myself) complain of caffeine withdrawal symptoms -- evil headaches and suchlike

Agreed. Check out this for some info on cultural, social, and situational info on addiction.

The standard indicators of an addictive substance (or behavior) are:

1. Compulsive use, even when knowing such behavior is known by the user to be detremental
2. Psycho-active effects. A measurable chemical change is made in the brain. With some substances the levels of dopamine can be regulated, which leads to.....
3. Reinforcement. The substance or behavior signals the user "man, that felt good. Do it again".
4. Withdrawal symptoms if the substance or behavior is not re-introduced periodically.

I've known for many years that coffee met all the hallmarks of addictive substances, and just figured I'd end up in Yet Another Twelve-step Group when I got around to acknowledging my own situation. But I also figured that the coffee/tea/soft-drink lobby was powerful enough to quash any research findings that showed that (just guessing here) 75% of all Americans are addicts. That's not the kind of research we want to read about! Tell us about solving erectile dysfuction, or instant fat-melter pills!

Yet often American sitcoms will refer to coffee in reference to making people hyper

Again, I agree. Sitcoms, and many people I know, make similiar "observations" (mostly incorrect from what I've read) about kids becoming "hyper" after consuming sugar, particularly around Halloween.

Re:Irresponsibility

[RWerp]

Mod the parent up!

Re:Irresponsibility

[the_mad_poster]

Yea, because I know that if I were trying to solve an important issue the first place I'd head out to talk about it is to Slashbot.

Angry with you? I couldn't give a shit less about you. I can't help it if you're one of the millions of drugged up, pill-popping drones who tries to foist personal responsibility off on society.

Re:Irresponsibility

[orangesquid]

Actually, when I was little, even a cup full of Coca-Cola would make me shake violently. It took my family a long time to figure out what the hell was wrong with me... I would go to birthday parties or something and drink soda, and if I drank Sprite, I'd be fine, but if I drank Coca-Cola, I'd start having near-seizures about twenty minutes later.

Finally a couple doctors suggested that I just had an acute nervous sensitivity to stimulants, and that I should avoid significant doses of caffeine, at least until my body matured. Now that I'm in my twenties, I can drink cup after cup of espresso, and I generally won't feel a thing, although if I'm tired, sometimes it does make me a tad shaky.

But, YMMV. Everyone's body is different.

Re:Irresponsibility

[greg_barton]

I can't help it if you're one of the millions of drugged up...

Ah, but you can help making assumptions about something you know nothing about, like my lifestyle. Possibly you should take your own advice and take responsibility for your own irresponsible leaps of "logic."

Re:Irresponsibility

[dfn_deux]

I agree with all of your math and it is quite perceptive indeed that the single espresso has less caffiene than a 7 ounce cup fo coffe. However, at least in America, the average cup of coffe is 12-20 ounces, not 7 ounces(which is a wierd measure in itself, because a coffee cup was standardized by the America Military as 6 ounces sometime during WWII, but I digress). So you average American would be comparing a 16 or 20 ounce cup of coffee @ 21mg/oz for a total of 336mg or 420mg respectively. However, The majority of espresso drinks sold here in America have only 1 or 2 shots of espresso delivering a 100-200mg of caffeine.
I also worked as a Barrista for about 18 months in a very heavily trafficed cafe and can personally atest to the fact that the tolerance for caffiene varies wildy from individual to individual. For example, I regularly drink very large Americano's prepared with 6 long pull espresso shots and have no problem with napping afterwards; while my girlfriend cannot sleep a full night if she has even 2 shots of espresso after dinner...
I also know someone who overdosed on caffiene pills and had to have her stomach pumped and get intavenous drugs to suppress her racing pulse and rapid breathing (beta blockers?)...
Blah, I'm rambling now.... maybe I should go geta cup of joe :)

Re:Irresponsibility

[Read Icculus]

"Or maybe it's genetic differences between the populations that mean that caffeine has different effects in the two countries?" Please turn your brain in to the proper authorities right now mate. Take a caffeine pill or two or four from the store and observe.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Josh Booth]

On the subject of pot, I read (on Wikipedia I believe) that marijuana halves the half-life of caffeine in your body to 3 hours instead of six. I suppose this is how my friend (and pothead) can drink Starbucks coffee with 10 shots of espresso in it.

Re:Irresponsibility

[jtev]

Yeah, this is why I put my espresso straight into a coffee cup. 8 oz of espresso is till a LOT of buzz. A lighter roast just wouldn't have the same taste and mouthfeel.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the point. You feeling "pepped up" isn't compelling evidence. Your lab test may be, but then why bother bringing in the meaningless stuff?

Re:Irresponsibility

[cshark]

who has a light in their freezer?

Re:Irresponsibility

[rbrunner]

I have a light in my freezer. Its a normal kitchen refrigerator/freezer. I don't think its that unusual.

Re:Irresponsibility

[cerberusss]

Japanese (?) commercial: Asian_girls_do_it_best.mpeg. Pretty funny. It's office safe.

Re:Irresponsibility

[fferreres]

>The irony to this is that I have a healthy dosage of self-control and discipline.

I think that's not true. What you have is a very healthy dosage of profound and deep fear of getting addicted. Self-control is trying it a week and never touching it again for example.

Now, I thought the same as you. I have never smoked marihuana before. I imagined myself in a pathetic stated of addiction that would drive me to somewhere I could never return from.

Now, a year ago I tried it, and it's kind of OK, I never got addicted. I rarely smoke, but I am not afraid. Yes, I don't want to touch anything else. The point is, self control would be to try cocaine for example, and to quit using it after a month even though you really miss it.

You will not be doing it from what I read, and neither will I, but that would be self-control. Me quitting smoking AGAIN would be self-control. I believe not trying something you think is addictive is a choice fostered by profound fear, not by self control. Smoking 1 cigarrete a day, drinking 1 cup of coffee a week, or eating some peyote ocasinally for example would be self control. Fear is no self-control at all, is cowardness.

Re:Irresponsibility

[el-spectre]

The solution to that is the ol' Hair O' the dog... when dealing with caffeine withdrawals (never last more than a day for me), I sleep as much as possible, and when I wake, chug a soda and go back to sleep. Dunno WHY this works, but it does.

And yeah, I'm one of those folks who drinks soda and sleeps... between being tall, fat, and a programmer... ain't a measly litre of soda is nothing!

Re:Irresponsibility

[julesh]

Or maybe it's genetic differences between the populations that mean that caffeine has different effects in the two countries?

I have a friend (in the UK) who will get extremely agitated on a couple of cups of coffee, and start losing self-control if she has much more. She gets into a lot of arguments, sometimes ends up throwing stuff around... but only if she drinks coffee. Eating chocolate has a similar but less marked effect, presumably from theobromine, which is chemically similar to caffeine.

It could well be a genetic factor that some populations have a higher proportion of people who are sensitive to it like this.

Re:Irresponsibility

[syousef]

Maybe I've just become immune to caffeine, but I do drink a lot of caffeine-containing drinks throughout the day, and I can't say I've ever noticed being hyper from it. More to the point, I've never really noticed anyone else becoming hyper from caffeine either.

Assuming you're a big coffee drinker, try cutting coffee and all caffeine (chocolate, coke, tea = everything) out of your routine for 2 weeks. Pay a little attention and you'll scare yourself. You'll get headaches and the shakes.

My response to caffeine is much more pronounced than 5 years ago. I'll have a restless night if I drink too much coke or eat too much chocolate before bed. That never use to be the case. Of course the answer's simple. Don't have anything with caffeine in it before bed.

Re:Irresponsibility

[amalthia]

When I started drinking coffee it got to the point where I started to feel fatigued if I didn't get that first cup. Then in the afternoon I would start to feel that way again unless I had another cup. I consider that to be addiction, having a negative reaction (fatigue) unless I get the substance. However, if I am not at work (where coffee is available) 10 hours straight and just relaxing at home on the weekend, I do not crave the coffee. It's more of an addiction if 1. I am in a situation such as work that requires hours upon hours of my attention and 2. the coffee is easily accessible, such as at work or a coffee shop.

In regards to jitters, it will usually take a really strong cup for that to happen; what really happens to me though is my heart will start racing after having coffee, so it may be another forms of "jitters". I stopped drinking coffee after the heart racing and went to the doctor and my heart checked out fine, but they said to stop drinking coffee if possible, or if not then to limit it to one a day. I've cut it down to half a cup of decaf coffee diluted with water (gross!!!). The fact that I would drink such crap shows how desparately I still want the coffee, but I don't consider it to be life threatening addiction.

Re:Irresponsibility

[not_a_product_id]

don't think you can be that sure. I've got a sweet tooth, I'm a potatoe chip/crisp addict and I've been addicted to video games ('coin in the slot' variety ones) and although I enjoy alcohol I've never felt close to being an alcoholic.

Probably best not to risk it though. (wish I had as much self control on the crisp front...)

Re:Irresponsibility

[DigitalRaptor]

You are an idiot. You are destined to be a candidate or winner of the Darwin Award.

Trying cocaine to prove to myself that I can overcome it would be the stupidest course of action ever. Why? I'm smarter than that. I have nothing to prove to myself that I haven't already done.

I heard of a catholic bishop that wanted to show some inner city youth how easy it was to quit drugs. So he tried cocaine, and after 2 years of addiction and losing everything in his life that he valued, he had a better understanding of addiction and better empathy with the addicted. Nonetheless, it was a stupid course of action.

Self control is not mutually exclusive with common sense and intelligence, as you suggest.

I choose to use them in harmony, thank you very much. Good luck, you're going to need it. And please, don't have kids. [fast forward]"Hey, kids, come over her and stick your hand into this fat fryer, test your will power and see how long you can hold it in there"[/fast forward]

Re:Irresponsibility

[Delphinios]

"Troll isn't in the DSM, unfortunately.

Re:Irresponsibility

[makinola]

There was a great Futurama episode on this, where Fry decides to drink 100 cups of coffee (neglecting food while on his coffee bender,no pun intended). At the end of the episode (100th cup of coffee) time slowed down for him, or he went into a hyper reality and managed to save everyone from a terrible fire. Anyone willing to try a real world experiment?

Re:Irresponsibility

[RanceMuhamitz]

I hope nobody got paid to conduct this study. What a waste of time.

Re:Irresponsibility

[tabrnaker]

Yes, this is blatantly obvious and no, those who drink coffee normally don't suffer ill effects.

Like any drug, as long as you keep taking it you won't see any effect. Ever see heroin addicts on a 'maintenance' dose? They look exactly like caffeine addicts on a 'maintenance' dose.

Re:Irresponsibility

[gurrufio]

I believe you make decaf by first processing the roasted beans in a chloroform wash and then steam them to remove the solvent.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Lost Race]

He's not an idiot, he didn't recommend anything, and he already said he doesn't intend to try any other drugs. He just said that what you have is not self-control, it is fear. He's right. If you had real self-control you wouldn't be so panicky about trying a sip of beer. That is not to say that there's something wrong with you; whatever keeps you out of trouble is good. Self-control in and of itself is nothing to aspire to. If fear does the job just as well, so be it.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Alcohol is vile. I can't conceive of how anyone could get addicted to it. Yuck! I've tried, I really have, I've dedicated years to it, tried all the different brands and flavors, but it took a lot of effort and self-discipline to keep drinking. I just don't have the kind of will power it takes to put up with the awful taste, the dizziness, nausea, the hangovers, on a daily basis. One drink a month or so is plenty, thanks.

Re:Irresponsibility

[DigitalRaptor]

The fact that I have never tried drugs, alcohol, or tobacco is a religious commitment, and one I am thankful for. It is in no way motivated by fear. I can visit any "rough neighborhood" in America and in a glance know that I want nothing to do with alcohol, tobacco, or drugs. That isn't fear, it's intelligence.

You are wrong on the matter of self-control, however. It is one of the greatest things to aspire to, and severly lacking in modern America.

"Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power." Seneca (Roman philosopher, mid-1st century AD)

"I am lord of myself, accountable to none". Benjamin Franklin

"The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions." Lord Alfred Tennyson

"But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." James 1: 6

"Self-reverence, self-knowledge, self-control,-- These three alone lead life to sovereign power." Lord Alfred Tennyson

"Industry, thrift, and self-control are not sought because they create wealth, but because they create character." Calvin Coolidge

"Fortunate is the person who has developed the self-control to steer a straight course toward his objective in life, without being swayed from his purpose by either commendation or condemnation." Napoleon Hill

In short, if you don't have self-control you don't have anything. All else is easily removed from your possession by others. I think there is nothing in life more valuable than self-mastery.

Re:Irresponsibility

[brianosaurus]

Yeah. That time i went from a gallon to zero, I woke up monday morning with my head still pounding, grabbed a small coke on the way to a test. The headache was gone by the time I got to class.

Drinking soda and sleeping isn't usually a problem for me, but coffee is another story. If I drink coffee after dinner, I usually can't fall asleep until 4 or 5am.

Re:Irresponsibility

[miskatonic alumnus]

Maybe --- but I doubt it. You do realize that chloroform is carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic, and destroys kidney and liver tissue. In other words, it's horrible shit that you don't want near anything you plan to ingest. Here is some data to back up my assertion that steam does a good job of extracting caffeine. We see that as the temperature of the water goes from 25 to 100 degrees Celsius, the solubility of caffeine increases from 22mg to a whopping 670mg per mL.

Re:Irresponsibility

[el-spectre]

Doesn't effect me unless it's after 10pm or so (usually sleep 'bout 1). Problem is, at about 11 I often think "you know, some coffee would be nice right about now..."

Re:Irresponsibility

[grassy_knoll]

I called it a substitute wood stainer.

I think you might have misspelled wax stripper or perhaps degreaser, as I've used such coffee for both.

Re:Irresponsibility

[the_mad_poster]

Not too shabby. I actually had quite a chuckle in response to that comment.

Re:Irresponsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Korean. ".ko"

Re:Irresponsibility

[geminidomino]

An even easier way to counter it:

Don't give those asshats your money.

Re:Irresponsibility

[stanmann]

Note that that is a nice buzz, but you can hallucinate from too much caffiene, and no not the fun kind. Large quantities of caffiene, ie multiple liters of mt dew(6+) over the course of less than an hour or so.. I was coding and lost count until I noticed I had consumed a six pack and a half of dew 24 oz bottles(a weeks supply normally) between 2:30 and 4:00. I observed slurred speech, auditory and visual hallucinations, and a splitting headache to boot. Now I make sure I don't have more available than I can/should drink at a sitting.

Thank's scientists!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! With research such as "coffee is addictive", I'm amazed why people find it hard to get grants...

Re:Thank's scientists!

[Seehund]

Thanks mainstream media (and Slashdot) for once again misrepresenting, misinterpreting and oversimplifying a scientific study or publication.

Some people would probably think it's boring to read the actual article (J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1990 Mar;252(3):970-8) or the abstract, but a link could have been in order.

No, the news is not that "coffee is addictive". Duh.

From the abstract:
"A novel drug discrimination procedure was used to study the discriminability and subjective effects of caffeine in seven human volunteers who abstained from dietary sources of caffeine. [...] The present study documents biological activity of caffeine at lower doses than heretofore recognized. The general approach to investigating the effects of low drug doses may have broad application in human psychopharmacology research for characterizing other subtle psychotropic effects."

Funny? Laugh?

I wonder why the Seattle Times and Slashdot found this worthy to mention, at the same time as it's apparently not worthy to understand.

Re:Thank's scientists!

[Seehund]

DOH!

Please excuse my brainfart! 1990. Oops.

Yeah, maybe they discovered that coffee is addictive after all. :)

Re:Thank's scientists!

[Seehund]

This could be the right article.

"OBJECTIVES. The purpose of this paper is to provide a comprehensive review and analysis of the literature regarding human caffeine withdrawal to empirically validate specific symptoms and signs, and to appraise important features of the syndrome."

"CONCLUSIONS. The caffeine-withdrawal syndrome has been well characterized and there is sufficient empirical evidence to warrant inclusion of caffeine withdrawal as a disorder in the DSM and revision of diagnostic criteria in the ICD."

Re:Thank's scientists!

[TheGavster]

See, there's what you believe, and what has been proven. Previously, there wasn't a whole lot of actual scientific evidence that coffee was addictive, just a hunch in that direction given how grouchy everyone at work was the day the percolator broke down. Most of science is simply proving the blatantly obvious, because a good portion of the time you find something nifty (on the topic of coffee, ever read about why coffee stains always form a ring rather than a dot? Its not because coffee collects around the rim of the mug.)

Re:Thank's scientists!

[robochan]

...I wonder why the Seattle Times and Slashdot found this worthy to mention...

Your wondering why the homes of Starbucks and Geeks found this worthy to mention?

Re:Thank's scientists!

[1,$d]

Here's a link to the table of contents of the Journal of Psychopharmacology, the journal that is publishing the actual scientific study.

I don't see the study in the online version right now (2004-10-03 14:15 PDT) but it might be there "now" depending on when you read this. The Journal appears to post PDFs of published articles, but it's a subscription-based journal so maybe not.

Re:Thank's scientists!

[d3ity]

You actually READ the sources?!? That is against the /. way!

LIES LIES LIES!!!

[DAldredge]

Coffee isn't Addictive!

IS NOT
!

is not!!!

Re:LIES LIES LIES!!!

[FatalTourist]

You present a strong argument.

Re:LIES LIES LIES!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Geez these overrated mods completely got out of hands... Going to metamoderate as often as I can.
Burn in hell teenage idiots who ruin slashdot mod system.

Re:LIES LIES LIES!!!

[DAldredge]

THANK YOU!

I wasn't sure as I still haven't had but TEN POTS of COFFEE THIS MORNING!

!!
!!!!
!!

it's not addictive.

[Anonymous Coward]

i can quit any time i want.

now marijuana....that's addictive

Re:it's not addictive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Marijuana isn't adictive, its just better than reality...

So is alcohol

[Colin Smith]

And cigarettes etc etc.

Course the failed War on Drugs should be canned, all drugs should be legalised, taxed and the cash used for rehabilitation services.

Re:So is alcohol

[TeraCo]

If it was legalised, why would there be rehab services? I mean, I dare say there would be the equivalent of 'AA', but there wouldn't be anything like there is now with methadone programs and so forth.

You don't see recovering alcoholics getting free shots of coffee to help them get over it.

Re:So is alcohol

[Kick the Donkey]

Course the failed War on Drugs should be canned, all drugs should be legalised, taxed and the cash used for rehabilitation services.

Seriously... Think about this. Druggies have already proved they'll pay just about any price to feed their habit. So, if you leagalize it, you reduce the cost of getting the drugs here, and selling them (black market goes away...). So, lets say the markup on your tyipcal drug is 17,000% from the black market. What should the markup be if the drugs where legal? Lets just say 500%, for arguments sake.

The government could charge a 100% tax on the profit, and the end user would only see a markup of about 1000% (17 times less than the current markup, for those who suck at math).

So, the druggies win (cheaper drugs). And the government wins (more taxes, less money spent on the worthless drug war). And the tax payer wins, provided the shills we elect don't siphon off all these extra funds into some type of 'special account'...

That, and I think people would be happier :D

Re:So is alcohol

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo. Lots of lost-jobs (which happen to be futile and useless, but that's beside the point to those whose lives revolve around them financially -- they'll find ethical backup rather than changing).
Me

Re:So is alcohol

[Fjornir]

You don't see recovering alcoholics getting free shots of coffee to help them get over it.

Have you been to an AA meeting?

Re:So is alcohol

[Simonetta]

all drugs should be legalised...

Actually all intoxicants should be legalized.
But it would not be the interest of public health to make freely available antibiotics. If they were freely, widely, and unprofessionally used, new resistant strains of dangerous bacteria would quickly evolve.
Fighting harmful bacteria is something like fighting the Borg, they always quickly adapt to whatever weapon that you're throwing at them.

Even the argument for legalizing strong addictive destructive intoxicants is debatable. If everyone were mentally balanced, intelligent, and middle class work-ethic oriented, it would be a 'yes'. But given the bell curve of the people out there, maybe, just maybe, cheap and easy heroin, crack, and meth isn't the most opportune method for handling these little treasures for society as a whole.

But then again, there are SO many surplus people now that the long-term consequences of cheap and easy H,C,M would be better than the current policy of severe illegality coupled with widespread distribution of these items. This policy is only good for the people who are making tons of money from investing in private prison corporations. Since we know that Wackenhut and Corrections Corporation of America contribute large amounts of money to Political Action Committees that push for ever-increasing sentencing for minor offences, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there was a backdoor channel to funnel profits from the sale of illegal intoxicants into the 'legitimate' investments in prison corporations.
Once you understand the American mind, you can't be shocked by their fundamental brutality-for-profit nature.
Not that your country would be really any different given the opportunity, it's just that America is the land of greater opportunity to be total assholes.

Re:So is alcohol

[brwski]

Yes...but one of the biggest problems is heading off those who profit from the arrests and incarcerations. Guard unions and for-profit prison corporations give huge sums to politicos so that there will be more and better-filled prisons (just google guard.union california for a taste). While 'the government' would come out ahead on the deal, it isn't 'the government', but the politicos, who decide who gets what $$$. Just follow the money...

brwski

Re:So is alcohol

[runderwo]

If it was legalised, why would there be rehab services?

Because ruining your life with drugs is still an undesirable thing to do, regardless of its legality.

Re:So is alcohol

[TheLittleJetson]

Not only would the drugs be cheaper, but if produced legally, they'd be of better quality and safer. Most heroin overdoses don't happen because the user says "I think it's about time I shot enough of this junk to kill me." It happens because potency varies from dealer to dealer, season to season, etc -- or they're sold something completely different instead of what they were expecting. Just like adulterated booze killed/blinded people in the 20's, fake ecstsasy pills and cut heroin/coke do a lot more damage than the pure substances would.

Re:So is alcohol

[Fringex]

Seriously... Think about this. Druggies have already proved they'll pay just about any price to feed their habit Care sharing your ideas on how to tax a druggie who gave a blowjob for some crack rock? Or gave their child for a week of heroine? I am dying to hear the details! ;)

Re:So is alcohol

[jtev]

Sounds like they'll be doing these things for MONEY to buy crack or heroin instead, and generaly a person gets more money for a blowjob than the price of the amount of crack they get for the same blowjob. Also, income from blowjobs is *gasp* taxable. Just because you broke the law to get the income doensn't me IRS doesn't want it's share.

Re:So is alcohol

[Fringex]

I wouldn't know if blowjobs lead to money or not. I am not hip on the knowledge of the drug market and how things work. About all I know is what I have seen in movies, and what little amount I have experimented with.

Re:So is alcohol

[TeraCo]

Sure, but all kinds of thing are undesirable, that doesn't mean that they all get 'rehab' programs to drag themselves out of their own mess.

I'd rather we spend the money spent on rehab programs on the problems of people who didn't put themselves in that position. [abuse victims, children put into foster care, and so on].

Re:So is alcohol

[Kick the Donkey]

The general concept is, if you eliminate the black market, the cost will fall, meaning people should not have to engage in illegal activites to feed their habit (yes, some will still steal, but that's already a crime, isn't it? No need to make something else illegal just to make it more difficult to commit another crime... One does not necessarily lead to the other.)

Re:So is alcohol

[jtev]

Well, if you pick the right types of girls you don't have to fork over money for blowjobs, but I belive the parent of my post was refering to crackwhores, who give blow jobs in exchange for crack cocaine, usualy about $20 worth of crack. I'll have to get a price schedule for a brothel to see how much a "legal" blowjob costs, and have unfortunatly not done any research on the cash price of a blowjob on the street.

Science: Sun rises in the east

[Anonymous Coward]

And other blindingly obvious statements:

Bears shit in the woods

Obvious....

[Kick the Donkey]

Is there anyway that I can mod this whole article up as obvious?

Re:Obvious....

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely you'd want to mod it down as obvious?

Re:Obvious....

[andyh1978]

Or Redundant.

Re:Obvious....

[Kick the Donkey]

You're right... My bad. Down she goes!

Hey!

[Stickerboy]

Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet.

Hey, don't steal my dissertation ideas! Some of us have put a lot of thought into that.

Re:Hey!

[6Yankee]

Don't you mean "dessertation"? :)

Before people moan...

[lxt]

...the study was more about the addictive properties of caffeine, rather than coffee. This is actually quite useful, because caffeine is often combined with paracetemol in pain killers. People who use these painkillers as "lifestyle drugs" (and they do - just look at the proliferation of "pocket containers" for brand name pills") might want to read this research. For example, the article states "Griffiths and Juliano assessed the validity of 66 studies on caffeine withdrawal over many decades. Fifty percent of people had headaches, and 13 percent had clinically significant distress or impairment of function.". If you're taking pain killers with caffeine to relieve headaches, the pain could actually start to be caused by your addiction to the caffeine. Still, at least they're researching something :)

Re:Before people moan...

[Anonymous Coward]

My ex-girlfriend was a lifestyle drug user. I swear, the girl took tylenol or motrin way too much. Everyday she would tell me "oh, I need to take three ." It always bothered me, because I'm strict believer that over using drugs for small ailments is a waste, and harmful. I almost never take painkillers. With the exception of when I got my wisdom teeth out, and when I get outstanding migraines, which isn't often. But you could definitely tell from her almost regular use of the drugs that she was addicted in some way. Also, I RTFA, but isn't this old news? Caffenine withdrawl is very apparent, and like you pointed it out, it assessed the validity of sixty six studies.

Re:Before people moan...

[Idarubicin]

This is actually quite useful, because caffeine is often combined with paracetemol in pain killers.

For the North Americans in our audience, paracetamol is the same thing as acetaminophen (the active ingredient in over-the-counter Tylenol.)

Now a riddle from my flatmate, who is studying pharmacology:

Question: Why is there no aspirin in the jungle?

Answer: Because the parrots eat them all.

Cheers.

Re:Before people moan...

[slavetrade55]

I almost never take painkillers. With the exception of when I got my wisdom teeth out, and when I get outstanding migraines, which isn't often.

Wow, you actually found a painkiller that gets rid of full blown migraines? I used to get those as a kid, and nothing helped. ;)

Re:Before people moan...

[drawfour]

If you're taking pain killers with caffeine to relieve headaches, the pain could actually start to be caused by your addiction to the caffeine.

That's exactly what Excedrin is. It's Aceteminophin (sp?) AND caffeine. There's a reason Excedrin is called "The Headache Medicine"(tm). Missing the morning cup of coffee is a huge reason for headaches, and giving them some pain killer WITH some caffeine seems to do the trick.

Re:Before people moan...

[CheshireCatCO]

Not quite. 250 mg of acetaminophen, 65 mg of caffeine, and 250 mg of aspirin. The aspirin is important for migraines, since it's a blood thinner. (The fact that I can recite the ingredients of the drug from memory tells you how much I take.)

The real trick here would be to seperate the caffeine addiction with the pain-killer habituation. Even without caffeine, you can get habituated to pain-killers so that your body stops producing enough of its own. The result is pain, so that you take the drugs. Although a tame kind of an addiction overall, it's still rather nasty business.

Re:Before people moan...

[drawfour]

I didn't know the exact numbers. I didn't remember for sure about the aspirin, but I thought I remember it had two pain killers plus caffeine. 65mg of caffeine is actually quite a bit. Check out this page for information about caffeine content in drinks.

A 12oz can of Coca-Cola classic contains 34mg of caffeine. A 12oz can of Diet Coca-Cola (I thought it was called "Diet Coke", but that's not what the page says) contains 45mg. Even Mountain Dew is less than the 65mg in Excedrin (the Dew is 55mg).

That and the fact that lots of people will take two pills instead of just one, especially if a headache is more than just a slight one, and you're really getting 130mg, which is right around the amount of caffeine in a cup of coffee.

Re:Before people moan...

[CheshireCatCO]

Yeah, it's a fair kick of the stuff. But I find your last sentence the most telling. A typical cup of coffee will have as much or more caffeine than a dose of Excederin. (And at only a bit over half the volume of a can of pop, no less.) Since you're taking the latter for a specific medical reason, it seems to me to be less scary than the cup of coffee (or two or three) that many people drink almost automatically every day without even thinking about it.

heh

[Illissius]

Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet.

And addictive!

Re:heh

[daijo78]

It actually is VERY addictive. It beats almost anything else. Hence all the fat people.

Re:heh

[BarryNorton]

No it isn't - what makes caffeine addictive, rather than dependency forming (like sweet foods used as an emotional crutch), is its withdrawl symptoms (which I thought were well known, and studied, but perhaps not...)

Re:heh

[pb9494]

Actually, the knowledge that fruit is healthy came several hundreds of years before the discovery of vitamin C.

Re:heh

[DAldredge]

Did you know that people didn't start getting that fat and in such large numbers till Cane Sugar was replaced with Corn Syrup?

Look it up.

Re:heh

[Ukoku]

Your mom is addictive.

(And similarly, everyone knows it's addictive, just like how everyone knows your mom is addictive.)

But seriously, you'd think scientists would spend time and money on something more useful, say, AIDS? Or perhaps the mental illness that causes people to want to blow eachother up?

Re:heh

[mattdm]

Therefore, Corn Syrup is definitely to blame, because coincidence is equal to causality. Cool.

Re:heh

[Epistax]

I hear Coke tasted a whole lot better before corn syrup came around, so I am therefore against it.

Re:heh

[DAldredge]

I didn't say that, did I? But it is a rather interesting possibility? After all, corn syrup is used in almost everything and the body does process it differently than 'normal' sugar.

Re:heh

[Artifakt]

It's not just that the body processes synthetic sugar differently than a natural sugar such as fructose that should give people pause.
This is a general tendency for serious drugs - The opiates are all similar to natural endorphins, with just a few OH radical's here and there for differences. When the body breaks down a synthetic opiate, several reactions proceed at the same speed as for natural endorphins, then a step occurs where the reaction chokes, as the enzymes responsible for that stage of metabolism don't fit the synthetic. Brain chemestry gets thrown off by this.
LSD and the various Mescalineoids have the same property in mimicing serotonin, again a natural brain chemical. They get a certain part of the way through the normal metabolic processes, then chemical breakdown slows, and again, brain chemistry fluctuates as a result.
There are some other drugs that the pattern isn't this clear. Psilocyben may or may not have a particular choke point in its metabolic path, although it does partially mimic some natural brain chemistry compounds. THC may or may not resemble a particular estrogen compound occuring naturally enough to go through some of the same metabolic pathways, the results are mixed. Partly, that's because these are both produced by plants and many of the tests use a mixture of several related chemical forms as those plants naturally don't make 100% pure anything.
Processed sugar metabolism involves splitting a double sugar molecule into two natural sugars right at the start of the process. The body doesn't seem to do this at a properly controlled speed, witness the fluctuations in the levels of those natural sugars as normally measured in the bloodstream.
Even in people with good tolerance for sugar (non-diabetics), those levels routinely vary by 200% or more (i.e. a typical fasting reading of 80, and a reading 15 minutes after eating sweets of 240, is not uncommon). That's an amplitude variation similar to what we see with the halucinogens for serotonin, and only moderately less than the fluctuation in natural endorphin levels of heavy opiate abusers.

Re:heh

[ifwm]

"Addiction" is not a term used in the DSM any more. It has been refined into "dependence" and "abuse" with dependence being the more serious of the two.

In actuality, dependence has simply replaced the term addiction (which was considered too negatively connotated) and if you were "addicted" to something, you would technically be dependent.

Re:heh

[ifwm]

My understanding is that cane sugar (why the capitals?) was more expensive to use, so replacing it with corn syrup simply made it available to more people at lower cost.

Re:heh

[BarryNorton]

"Addiction" is not a term used in the DSM any more

All the better to ignore the difference between physiological and psychological dependence and tell anyone with a habit that they're essentially a junkie and need to pay for treatment (including, but not limited to, non-addicting drugs like cannabis, and sex, gambling etc. etc. etc.)

Re:heh

[ifwm]

Um, no. There are very clear distinctions between physiological and psychological dependence in the DSM. It would do well to read one if you plan to comment on such things.

The truth is treatment for substance abuse/dependence is being refined continuously, and there are very conscientious professionals who only wish to help people overcome problems which cripple their social function. Not everyone is interested in making a buck off of other people's misery.

Re:heh

[Anonymous Coward]

"the mental illness that causes people to want to blow eachother up?"

You mean lack of caffeine?

Re:heh

[BarryNorton]

I'm not saying the distinction's not there to be made. I'm saying that shifting the language is "all the better" for the many charlatans practicing in the country whose medical texts you think I should read. I didn't even say it was by design; perhaps you're the one who should read more carefully...

Re:heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Cane sugar is expensive because of US protectionist policies. Thus, the market routed around this problem and we now use corn syrup for everything. Think about that next time you say "no more outsourcing."

now can I get coffee on the NHS

[zenst]

Well can I now have me caffiene patch's on the NHS. Bout time been descriminated enough for being non smoker/ non alchoholic/non drug injecting addict but I doooo luv me caffine, too much :/

Just In

[celeritas_2]

A recent study shows that Calling Things Addictive and Evil is truely Addictive! Try to avoid sensational news stories at all costs else your head might rot and fall off.

In related news

[Anonymous Coward]

Study shows that research grants are addictive. Grant withdrawal causes scientists to carry out stupid studies.

No!

[Midnight Thunder]

Coffe is not addictive - really.

If you want some arguments then you'll have to wait until I have had my coffee.

I CAN STOP ANYTIME I WANT!

[kclittle]

No, really! Honest. I'm sure I can....

Re:I CAN STOP ANYTIME I WANT!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy to stop when you have a reason for doing so.

Re:I CAN STOP ANYTIME I WANT!

[pjt33]

I've kicked caffeine cold turkey for specified periods of time - e.g. exam term, when I needed to sleep well. I only had withdrawal symptoms the first time. So yes, if I wanted to I could quit it again.

I'm 1/2 through my first cup

[Scrameustache]

I guess I need some more, I could have sworn I've seen this subject matter mentioned in a slashdot article no more than a few days ago...

That would never happen! I must need more cafeine.

P.S. My last thought before sleep last night was "yay!, when I wake up I get to drink some cofee", its something to look forwards to.

Sure, on the NHS...

[lxt]

...will these patches be covered on MediCare?

Re:Science: Sun rises in the east

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

And other blindingly obvious statements:
Bears shit in the woods

I resent that remark.

-- Yours truly, Teddy the constipated grizzly

Better Keep it Legal

[BisonHoof]

Gulp. Ttthey betttter, gulp, kkkkeep it llleagal, gulp, or I ssswear, I'll go over the eeedge! Gulp!

Re:Science: Sun rises in the east

[Chrispy1000000 the 2]

News FLASH:
Bombs are EXPLOSIVE!!!

What the...

[Anonymous Coward]

Did we really need a scientific study just to prove this? Come on, everytime I've gotten myself up to a steady two-can-a-day route with pop and then gone without for more than a day, I'd always have a piercing headache that lasted about half-a-day.

Oh wait, I suppose now I can be certain that those headaches were because of caffiene withdrawl. I'm glad that I know that now. I mean, because before, I thought it was because of solar flares.

Then soda must be too...

[datastalker]

...given that it has so much caffeine as well. I haven't had any soda in three and a half years, and I can tell you that it's still difficult not to drink it. Just smelling it really makes me want to drink some, so it definitely had an effect on me, regardless of whether that could be officially classified as addiction.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've stopped for a few years too. Although I'll sneak maybe one every one or two months. When I stopped the thing I started realizing more is how often everybody else drank these things. I mean, one for a snack in the morning, one for lunch, one for dinner, maybe one more before bed. I've heard some brag in the office about how quickly they go through a 12 pack. Have some restraint, people!

Re:Then soda must be too...

[ProppaT]

During college, I used to buy 7 2-liters a week, one for everyday. Often times I'd go out to lunch/dinner and have even more. Oh, and free refils at retaurants, so go do the math. After college I still drank way too much of it. Then I started noticing that I was tired all the time and didn't really want to do anything but mope around.

A month ago I started drinking water...lots of water. Insted of 2-liters of soda a day, I started drinking 2 liters of spring water a day. It made me cringe at first, I hated the "taste" of water. 1 week into drinking no soda I didn't mind it anymore. Now, when I drink anything sweet or even eat small peices of candy, I cringe because it's TOO sweet. Not only that, even sweet ice tea will give me a caffeine/sugar buzz now...something that I've never experienced before in my life. Even though I've lost no weight (I'm pretty thin to begin with), clothes fit better and the bags under my eyes have gone away. Most importantly, I have more energy than I can ever remember having before in my life.

Growing up, we always had soda in the house and I rarely drank anything but soda. Now I wonder how my life would be different had I been raised on water...

Re:Then soda must be too...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a pop fiend myself. I'm not quite up to the 2 liter a day mark, but I'm maybe half way there. I've been working on it. I still keep some in the fridge in the basement; I like to have a nice cold Mountain Dew after doing some lawn or something else, but I try and limit just sitting around drinking it. (With the exception of LAN parties, where diet just sort of disappears for the night, heh.) My problem is, like you said, that "taste" of water doesn't not agree with my tongue, at all. I can't stand plain water. So far the best solution I've found is that Propel water that gatorade makes. Its only like 10 calories, very small amount of sugar, per 8 oz. And it tastes like watered down kool aid, so I can deal with. Plus, it has some vitamins and potassium, so that's cool.

-- LTK ( http://slashdot.org/~lewstherinkinslayer )
Now Kharma-Whore Free.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[Anonymous Coward]

I do the Dew to the tune of about a litre and a half a day. I switched to diet last summer because I started to realize that there was a lot of calories in all that. I do, however, work out and I drink water before and after that. But any other time, it's Dew.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[ProppaT]

I was the same as you. What you might do is try a bottle of some really good spring water like Evian or Figi. It's too expensive to drink all the time, but just try it. It's not as offensive as normal purified water. After a week of just drinking water, I didn't mind the taste at all. I guess I just got used to drinking things that weren't sweet.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[jez9999]

Heh heh. The first time I drank Evian, I remember thinking 'WTF? This is exactly the same as tap water!'. I live in the UK. If Evian doesn't taste the same as your tap water, your water regulator sucks and you ought to be up in arms about the shit quality of your tap water.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[ProppaT]

My tap water tastes like pool water.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[CheshireCatCO]

Luckily for pop-fiends, there's a lot less caffeine in a can of pop than in a cup of coffee. (And the former is nearly twice the volume of the latter, too.) Which isn't to say that it's a healthy habit, of course.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[incom]

Yes, that that chlorine really makes my water taste nasty, hurts my stomach, and often causes me dehydration because many times I go without rather than drink the stuff.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it really depends on where you live. In my experience, Ohio, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania have shitty water. The water in South Carolina is good but not spectacular. New York City's water is surprisingly good, since they bring it in from the Upstate. Right now, I'm in backwater Japan, and the water is pretty good. But I still end up buying a thing of Coke or oolong tea every couple days.

Re:Then soda must be too...

[dr_d_19]

...given that it has so much caffeine as well. I haven't had any soda in three and a half years, and I can tell you that it's still difficult not to drink it. Just smelling it really makes me want to drink some, so it definitely had an effect on me, regardless of whether that could be officially classified as addiction.

Then of course it COULD be that you are simply "addicted" to sugar, and your body knows sodas are excellent sugar sources. Sugar is just as bad - if not worse - than fat. People stop eating fat and go for the Low Fat alternatives. The result? Increases in type II diabetes, tiredness, etc. The fast food industry loves sugar since it keeps you hungry after your food, making you eat twice the amount next time. and besides, sugar is cheap to handle (no cooling required etc). Try taking a look at GI, it's far better than Weight Watchers or Atkins...

Next target in war on drugs ?

[TheUncleBob]

Perhaps starbucks should be careful they don't get added to the list, especially serving columbian blends !

Re:Next target in war on drugs ?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's spelled Colombia, with a O. Columbia (District of) is where the coke-users have their senate (and president).

Re:Next target in war on drugs ?

[e-gold]

Perhaps starbucks should be careful they don't get added to the list, especially serving columbian blends !

It's not as farfetched as it might seem (although the article is refreshingly-honest about the underlying reasons for the ban -- fear of political discussion and dissenting thought by authoritarians in control of others' lives).
JMR

(Speaking ONLY for me!!!)

Sugar is Sweet?

[Zarf]

Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet.

That's just an old wives tale! Bah! Sugar isn't sweet... it's saccharine.

In Other News...

[pyite]

"In other news, it has been found that eating food can be addictive. Studies show that some humans who start eating food shortly after they are born are unable to stop until their death."

Re:In Other News...

[Dogtanian]

Yeah; but where's the control group?

Re:In Other News...

[BarryJacobsen]

In other news, it has been found that eating food can be addictive. Studies show that some humans who start eating food shortly after they are born are unable to stop until their death.

Actually, I just read they found a new treatment for food addiction by analyzing young, female models! This new treatment, called anorexia, will help lessen food addiction and someday, with God's help, mankind may finally be able to kick this food addiction!

Re:In Other News...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The real thing in that the study found that only one cup of coffee was enough for a lot of people to start an addiction.

Even if something did seem obviously common knowledge, such as caffeine's addictive properties, it still must be properly studied. For example, there was a time when people laughed at the concept that the earth was round, because common knowledge said it was flat. Or that massive consumption of vitamin C helps colds, which isn't the case.

Heck, a lot of stuff that people seem to "know" is covered in snopes.com. The reason this stuff needs to be studied is to learn the real truth, rather than relying on rumor, gossip, heresay and anecdotes as proof of a truth.

Re:In Other News...

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Bingo. Every time there's a study confirming conventional wisdom, people point and laugh, with the implication that the time and money that went into the research was wasted. But it's not; without real, solid, statistically valid research, doctors would still be arguing over whether 'tis better to lower a patient's constitution by bleeding or fortify him with wine. (Anyone who responds to this by bringing up the fact that leeches are sometimes used in modern medicine, or the health benefits of drinking a glass of red wine a day, is spectacularly Missing The Point.) A lot of "common sense" ideas about how our bodies work are, in fact, quite true; at least as many of them are false, and often actively dangerous. Only rigorous study can tell the difference.

Re:In Other News...

[corngrower]

Actually the idea that Vitamin C helps colds was not really 'common knowledge' as you state. It was an idea that got promoted in the late 60's by noted chemist Linus Pauling, that a lot of people took as fact when it wasn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling

Re:In other news...

[PsychoSid]

Bears also defecate in areas densely populated with trees.

The pope still expected to believe in God.

War on

[Camel Pilot]

Since we lost the war on drugs and are losing the war on obesity and are barely holding our ground on the war on terrorism maybe we could win the war on caffeine!

Re:War on

[wuice]

Not likely. If you think heroin junkies are rabid about getting their fix...

Re:War on

[Twisted Grind]

Something tells me that if we started a war on caffeine, we'd have a whole new front in the war on terrorism to deal with. Millions of coffee-starved Americans calling themselves 'Al-Qafeen' would rage throughout our streets spreading chaos and discord...

Re:War on

[irritant-1]

I understood that standard issue chewing gum supplied to USAF pilots was loaded with caffeine. So maybe you're right.

Quitting?

[Anonymous Coward]

All of you people that say that quitting something is easy, should actually try before saying anything.

Re:Quitting?

[arose]

It may be easy for some. Not all people get addicted equaly easy or strongly.

And in related news...

[rmy1]

Sugar contributes to diabetes;
Microsoft Windows vulnerable to viruses;
CowboyNeal wins presedential election.

Caffine is just a helper

[numbware]

Caffine isn't addictive. It helps us continue addictive things. For example, I stay on /. all night, every night and get no sleep. How? I'm loaded on caffine of course.

How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[Anonymous Coward]

I find that daily use of coffee completely prevents all side-effects of caffeine withdrawal. Give it a try and you will see.

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[justiss4awl]

I'm not addicted, I can quit any time I want.....honest....really I can. I just don't want to right now. Starbucks forever!

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[Epistax]

You accidentally gave me an interesting point. I do agree caffeine is addictive (didn't we know this for decades?) but on the subject of withdrawal it seems quite strange.

Let's say you're a coffee drinker and you have only a small amount in the morning. Will you start feel withdrawal in the afternoon or evening, that is, your body asking for more coffee?

I personally drink coffee on an on and off basis. Sure sometimes I have headaches when I don't have coffee. Sometimes I have headaches when I do have coffee. Sometimes I am jittery until I've had coffee (this presents a problem with a studying habits-- coffee putting me to sleep!). The caffeine symptoms don't actually seem directly related to the coffee itself, that is, coffee never makes them go away and I never feel like coffee when I have them. However, sometimes I feel like having a cup of coffee. In all honesty I'll just think "I could really go for a cup right now." whether it's 9 am or 9 pm.

As a disclaimer I've never been addicted (knowingly) to any other drug, so I don't know if it's common for withdrawal and cravings to be completely separate. It just seems to me that the side effects I have aren't actually tied to coffee, but caused by something else (possibly just natural). On the other hand every so often (perhaps once or twice a week) I spontaneously want coffee.

Ok I apologize for not drawing any conclusions. Can anyone help me out?

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[klang]

you are not an addict until you burn your own beans!

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah! Just wait for your average fix of coffee coming at around 40 bucks (and being mixed with dried dog poo and dirt) and you'll see that this starts to be not so easy at all, especially when you get fired at work for failing the weekly caffeine test. You will start spiralling slowly downward soon after.

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[gatzke]

I have been a pretty heavy drinker for about a decade now. Maybe 6-8 cups per day.

Now, if I don't have a cup or two on the weekend I do get headaches pretty bad.

The headaches don't kick in in the afternoon of a normal workday, so for me at least it takes a day or two to really hurt.

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[mOdQuArK!]

Will you start feel withdrawal in the afternoon or evening, that is, your body asking for more coffee?

I've read somewhere that caffeine is also used as a mild pain reliever, which makes establishing whether or not it is addictive on a personal level somewhat confusing - did that headache show up because you stopped using the caffeine, or was the caffeine just covering up the headache while you were taking it?

Re:How I prevent caffeine withdrawal

[Ramadog]

I vote for the headache showing up after I stop drinking coffee. If I stop drinking coffee I have a rather bad headache within a couple of days. Found this to be repeatable. Sleep and plenty of water helps.

When I have a headache and I have a cup of coffee the headache can be gone by the time the drink is finished. I won't say whether it is the shot of caffeine or if it is psychosomatic but if I have not had a coffee for a bit and have a bad headache a cup of coffee can help quite a lot.

I have to admit.

[daijo78]

The only reason I'm on slashdot now instead of doing some real work is I'm waiting for my first cup of coffee to kick in.

As they say on Fark

[Anonymous Coward]

Still no cure for cancer

Can you say tachycardia?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only is caffeine addictive, you can buy the stuff neat on the 'net, in the form of a white powder, and sprinkle it like sugar on your Post Toasties and rhubarb juice. This sounds like Ren & Stimpy, or an entry in the Darwin Awards, but it killed my nephew, no ****ing lie, who used caffeine like methadone for coke, and no I don't mean Coke. Raw caffeine should be a Schedule 1 controlled substance.

Re:Can you say tachycardia?

[dylain]

No it shouldn't. Who are you to tell another person what they may or may not do? Who are you to restrict the right of a person to purchase crystalline caffeine? It may be a terribly stupid thing to do, sprinkling crystalline caffeine on your breakfast, but you don't have the right to prevent anyone else from doing it. Plus, if your nephew died from caffeine overdose...I hate to admit it, but he probably had the chance to stop...

Lawsuits?

[HockeyPuck]

Could we expect Tobacco style lawsuits in the near future?

-$100million due to the 'yellowing' of teeth.
-$1milllion due to the staining of mugs

I wonder if that old lady with the burned crotch from McD's will come back?

C'mon ppl take some responsibility for your own life: Fatty foods will make you fat. Sugary foods will give you cavities. Caffeine is addictive..

DUH!

I'll RTFA after...

[djdavetrouble]

I'll RTFA right after I get another cup of fresh groud french roast costa rican, with half and half ... no sugar ...

Most addictive substance ever...

[arose]

O2! H20 is a distand second. Ban them now!

Re:Most addictive substance ever...

[arose]

s/H20/H2O

There are times when I really hate QWERTY...

Re:Most addictive substance ever...

[Anonymous Coward]

No! Please don't take away my dodecahydrogen!

And there's less crime

[Colin Smith]

And there's less money spent on a demonstrably failed policy. And the product would have to be quality controlled, so fewer health problems, and junkies would be less likely to share needles, so fewer disease problems.

Re:And there's less crime

[Alyks]

And fewer crimes, because it would stop people from needing to break into stores, etc. for money to pay for the high prices.
Also, the rehabilitation services would be for drug users who want to stop. everybody wins.

Org. Johns Hopkins Medicine Press release (+P-F)

[danalien]

Here is the original Johns Hopkins Medicine (hopkinsmedicine.org) press release ( +printer friendly version)

erg?

[Flamesplash]

"Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet."

So your statement is saying that you think this study is useless. Then why post it to the front page if you think it's useless?

Re:erg?

[HeghmoH]

Maybe the category (the foot means "humor") will help you understand.

Is addictive...

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL...

Anyone saying that coffee isn't addictive should try this simple test..

GO ONE DAY WITHOUT COFFEE

See how bad of a headache you get.. Migraine city..

-k0ward.

Re:Is addictive...

[Anonymous Coward]

well, not quite.
Think Caffine addiction is really more of a personal thing..
I used to have 2-3 cups of starbucks a day during my student days and it grew up to 8 cups a day (thanks to free coffee access at work).
One fine day, I just wanted to see if i was addicted and decided to quit cold turkey.

now its been 4 weeks and I feel no withdrawal symptoms. So, i guess, the main reason I was drinking that much was because i really liked its taste...

Re:Is addictive...

[tuxette]

GO ONE DAY WITHOUT COFFEE

Been there done that. I spent some time in Southeast Asia, where it's nearly impossible to get a good cup of coffee. So I went without. Better no coffee than bad coffee. I didn't drink tea or cola either. Not a problem.

Still no cure for cancer

[jsebrech]

Honestly, who here didn't know caffeine is majorly addictive, just like sugar? Anything that gives you a "buzz" is majorly addictive. Most of the soft drinks sell not based on taste (other than tasting sweet they don't really offer much taste qualities), but based on how addicted people are to the buzz they get from drinking them. I know a lot of people with cola or coffee addictions, and those addictions are tolerated (or not even recognized) because a caffeine and sugar addiction tends to not obviously harm society.

Re:Still no cure for cancer

[grikdog]

Don't kid yourself. Caffeine in excess causes cardiac arrest. Sugar is just the dentist's kid's scholarship.

Re:Still no cure for cancer

[Zakabog]

I dunno what you're trying to tell yourself, but I'm pretty sure sugar is not addictive. Maybe it is and there are a lot of people immune to the addiction. I know a lot of people who don't like sweet things at all, and I'm not one for too much sugar either.

And what soft drinks do you drink that give you a "buzz"? I don't think I've ever got a "buzz" or any kind of feeling from pepsi other than "Hey this tastes great!" I've felt something after drinking a few Bawls but never anything from a regular cola. I drink caffine free pepsi just the same as I drink normal pepsi, I really enjoy the taste. But there are times when I just stop drinking pepsi (it's no longer available or I'm not in the mood to drink it) so I drink water or something.

Re:Still no cure for cancer

[jsebrech]

I dunno what you're trying to tell yourself, but I'm pretty sure sugar is not addictive.

That's what everyone has always assumed, but recent medical research is starting to prove otherwise.

And what soft drinks do you drink that give you a "buzz"? I don't think I've ever got a "buzz" or any kind of feeling from pepsi other than "Hey this tastes great!"

Are you trying to claim caffeine and sugar are not "uppers"? People pulling all-nighters fueled by coffee or cola will disagree with you, I guarantee it.

Let me ask you this: if you took away all the sugar or sugar-replacement in your can of pepsi, would you still like the taste? Here's another experiment: take a glass of cooled carbonated water, and start mixing sugar into it. See how it tastes at varying levels of sugar. Do you like the taste?

Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet.

[LooseChanj]

Or the one proving beyond the shadow of a doubt it's actually sour, and black is white. I miss the coming ice age.

This proves coffee is a good thing for us

[Greenisloved]

Could you go to offce without brushing teeth or taking bath . They are daily activities , failure of which our lives are not quite pleasant.

Coffee is obviously one such thing.Let them place coffee in a balanced diet ...Happy?

Slurm!

[xyloplax]

It's highly addictive!

leading cause of death: automobile

[h00manist]

I have yet to see anyone of authority seriously denounce the use of automobiles as the main form of transportation, as it's highly profitable to the steel, manufacturing and oil industries. It makes money, a lot money, and makes you and me work a lot extra for THEM - just to be able to get around.

The fact that it's also by FAR the leading cause of death among young people worldwide, of depleting cities of sidewalks full of people and converting them to endless asphalt-covered semi-arid cultural deserts, making the air equivalent to smoking a couple cigarrettes, etc, seems to be no problem.

So when's a president going to declare "war on the auto industry killers"? Oh yeah, every presidents just represent THEM, too, never US.

Welcome to govcorp. You're free and happy. Go to read your officially sancioned multiple brand confunews and back to work to prop our paper monopoly. Be sure to talk of everything that makes no difference to everyone, and feel anger, and seek solutions with anger, death and weapons. Our weapons, pointed at you.

Confused? Angry? Good.
-------------------

Re:leading cause of death: automobile

[mobby_6kl]

How did this get moderated insightful? It might be true, I don't care, but it's fucking offtopic! Maybe posting Linux TCO studies in a story about arcade games would also get me karma?

Common ..

[madssj]

How could anyone think that coffee is not addictive, or cola for that matter.

All bad things are addictive, even those women we all keep hearing so much about.

In other news...

[Donjo]

Still no cure for cancer...

Different Levels of Addictiveness

[Anonymous Coward]

This may be obvious to some, but I think you can't blame the drug, you have to blame the person's chemical makeup.

Different people have varying levels of susceptibility to becoming addicted to drugs. Some people can't have a beer without becoming addicted to the alcohol, some people can handle beer but can't resist pot, some people can handle beer and pot but cocaine does them in, and some people can pretty much take anything without becoming addicted to it. If they can't handle a drug of lower addictiveness, they most likely won't be able to handle a more highly addictive drug.

I've noticed that most alcoholics also smoke cigarettes because if they can't break free of lure of alcohol, they surely can't break free of the hold of nicotine. It would be in their best interest not to even try any other drugs, because they'll get hooked easily.

There are those who can recreationally use cocaine or heroine and not become addicted. Since I'm posting as an anonymous coward, I'll tell you that I've hung out with people who did hard drugs, and partook in their activities, but I never developed a feeling of "need" for those drugs while they did. I don't smoke cigarettes and I only drink on an occasional weekend, yet I can go to a party and party hard and take whatever's on the table without becoming addicted- I realized this about 10 years ago.

But that's just me, don't try this at home.

I must be an exception...

[jmcmunn]

I must be the exception to the rule. I drink coffe on average three times a week. And when I do, it is only one cup a day. It's when I get to work and realize I forgot my juice/water that I normally bring in to drink. For me, it is more about having something to sip on in the morning while I read the news, and settle in for the day. I can honestly say that no matter if I drink coffee for an entire month, I do not have "the need" to drink a cup on that next day. Water will do just fine.

I can honestly say that even though it does clearly have an effect on me (I get a little jittery and feel way too high strung after a cuppa joe) I would bet that most people would only have "withdrawal symptoms" for a day at most. I'm guessing (very unscientifically) that for most people the need for coffee is a routine. Try switching to water or juice or even decaf coffee to see if you feel any different.

I can see where someone who drinks a couple pots of coffee a day might get headaches or something if they just quit all at once, but this could be said for anything...sugar, caffeine, salty snacks, you name it. Your body is going to be used to dealing with anything you take in in excess. Once that excessive amount is gone, you will notice, at least for a little while. I'm not sure it's really groundbreaking news just because Johns Hopkins told us they found it out.

I certainly don't think it needs to be entered into the DMS just yet, just because some people get a headache from too little/much caffeine. (yes it happens when you get too much too, at least for me) I know people will say it is like alcoholism, where it's the same kinds of symptoms and what not. But I don't think alcoholism is quite as bad as people make it out to be. (and before I go any farther, let me tell you that I do have two alcoholics in my close family) I think that even though some people may be more likely to develop alcoholism, the blame and responsibility still falls on them. Every person has the ability to stop doing destructive behavior. You just have to learn what your limits are and govern them youself....but that's another topic for another day.

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

You're just not noticing the symptoms and/or chalking them up to generic headaches that have no cause. The withdrawals are real. I ignored/didn't notice them for years.

Re:I must be an exception...

[jmcmunn]

So you're saying that every headache I have is caused by lack of caffeine? I don't get a headache more than once a month...I don't drink coffee more than 10 times a month (at most I would way). It seems I am lacking a little bit in the caffeine headaches department by those numbers. I don't drink much caffeinated pop either, the occasional mountain dew is on the menu, but I am mostly a diet pop, low caffeine guy when I get pop.

I don't ignore headaches...I just don't get them often. When I do, I usually wake up with them...and generally because I am severely dehydrated after a night of drinking. A few glasses of water and some breakfast and they go away no problem. A lot of post-drinking headaches (after binge drinking) are associated with being dehydrated, so drinking a bunch of water before you go to bed will help significantly with hang overs.

I do not, however, get a headache in the morning when not drinking coffee/juice/water. I just feel off for a bit in the morning, like when you skip shaving or skip showering or whatever your routine in the morning is.

Re:I must be an exception...

[arose]

How do you know that the cause of the headaches is coffeine? Is it imposible that they have other couses and coffeine is just acting as a pain reliever?

Re:I must be an exception...

[Daniel Dvorkin]

There are people who only smoke one cigarette, two or three days a week, too. But they are indeed the exception, not the rule. If you don;t have an addictive response to caffeine, well, good for you; but don't assume your experience generalizes to everyone else.

Re:I must be an exception...

[Anonymous Coward]

I certainly don't think it needs to be entered into the DMS just yet

Has anyone else noticed that Slashdot has mostly become the refuge for know-everything 23 year-olds who have no-idea what they are talking about?

Hey, jmcmunn, are you a medical researcher? A specialist in personality disorder? Hmmm, no kidding?

All these "Gosh, I don't think that this should be labeled as..." strikes me the same way as it would if some ignorant news reporter said something like, "Gosh, I don't think that free software is good since it is almost always lower quality. This one time, I was using this free software and it was really bad so you see..." Or some other sort of ignorant claim with no facts to back it up, just a small sample size based on a personal observation and a bias.

PS: Grow up Slashdot readers. There is still insightful commentary to be found here but it is getting MUCH, MUCH harder when drek like the above gets modded up.

Re:I must be an exception...

[enol]

I didn't think I was an addict. I now think otherwise. It's true I -can- go for weeks, months without a cup of coffee. But I do start craving it, especially after a meal for that "after meal, nice dark cup of coffee to top it off"

My friend stopped smoking and she said it's not that it's hard to stop, it's hard to keep yourself from going back. Everytime she's around people who smoke, or had a delicious fulfilling meal, she craves a smoke.

I can deal with it. Thankfully (or unthankfully) I get very nauseus with too much caffeine. I suppose I OD easily as well, so I drink one or two cup a day at most.

I am enol. Yes I'm addicted to caffeine.

Re:I must be an exception...

[1,$d]

I would bet that most people would only have "withdrawal symptoms" for a day at most. I'm guessing (very unscientifically) that for most people the need for coffee is a routine.

I realize people have to post anecdotes about themselves and make conclusions about billions of humans in our species. After all, I believe Sturgeon's Law, and not everybody knows what science actually is.

But does such idiocy have to get modded up and not get modded back down? Ackkk.

Re:I must be an exception...

[khallow]

But I don't think alcoholism is quite as bad as people make it out to be. (and before I go any farther, let me tell you that I do have two alcoholics in my close family) I think that even though some people may be more likely to develop alcoholism, the blame and responsibility still falls on them.

Here, you clearly have no clue. Withdrawing from severe alcoholism can be lethal.

Re:I must be an exception...

[khallow]

Here's the numbers. 5% of people suffering alcohol withdrawal experience delirium tremens. Of those that do and don't get treatment, up to 35% die.

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have said headaches. Withdrawals have other symptoms. General lack of energy, mild stomach ache/feelings of hunger, slight body aches. Face it, it is a chemical, and it is affecting your body the same way it affects every other human body. Maybe not as drastically, but your body feels the effects even if your brain is too dense to understand what the body is feeling.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Everyone's brain chemistry is different. Some people, for instance, can take heroin and quit cold-turkey with hardly any problems. Others, of course, are the opposite and get addicted to many drug very easly.

Both my parents have tried going for a week with out coffee, and neither had any withdrawal symptoms.

I agree that caffiene addiction is real, but that doesn't mean that it's addictive for everyone.

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

It is addictive for everyone. This is a cold, hard fact. You are in denial. That's all I really have to say about caffiene. Herion, though....

Some people, for instance, can take heroin and quit cold-turkey with hardly any problems.

This is a dangerous lie which demostrates the lengths to which you will go in just making up total BS to support your position of denial. As a human, if you have dopamine receptors in your brain, you will become physically addicted to opiates after consistant usage.

Others, of course, are the opposite and get addicted to many drug very easly.

Do you even have a concept of the differentiation between mental and physical dependencies? Here, you're describing the mental characteristics that define an addictive personality. The idea of an addictive personality has absolutely no bearing what-so-ever on a person's susceptibility to physical withdrawal symptoms.

Do the world a favor and stop spewing dangerous lies... If you don't have a solid base of knowledge, just don't talk about it. Making shit up sucks.

Re:I must be an exception...

[jmcmunn]

Note to self: Slashdot readers have abandoned being a "community" and have turned into an elitest bunch of pricks.

There, now I know that you're too good for me you anonymous coward. I shall never post again. Oh wait, maybe some comments get modded up because most of the really insightful people (like yourself) post as anonymous.

Come on, grow up. I took two psych classes in college back in the day. One was entirely on how drugs affect the brain. I do not, however, consider myself an expert in the field. Too bad when my comments (opinions) don't mesh with yours that I end up getting insulted. If Slashdot isn't insightful enough for you, go find another place to surf to.

Keep in mind...if a post is overall scored positively, then the majority of people must find it to be good enough to read. Thus, you are in the minority. At least I don't post shit about the GNAA or whatever the current BS is.

Re:I must be an exception...

[jmcmunn]

Good job. I buy that. But I am sure whatever statistic this is taken from considers "severe withdrawal" and not just a headache or craving. So you're saying about 1/100 people who go through severe withdrawal can die. I would not argue against that. And I certainly don't mean to say that alcoholism isn't a serious thing...I can relate personally to it. I'm just saying that it gets a little too much hype, because I personally think everyone needs to take responsability for themselves. Stop blaming weak will, or addictive behavior on something or someone else. If you have a strong will, you can make it out by gradually weening yourself off in most cases.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Bollocks. If you really believe that every single human will have the same response to the same dosage of all drugs, then you are a true idiot.
People respond differently to differnt drugs. Everyone's brain chemistry is different. These are facts. This is why if you look on any study about response to medications and symptoms etc, they are never 100% of anything.

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

Where did I say anything about dosage? Oh, that's right. I didn't.

For the record, of course I know that dosage response varies from human to human. If you knew anything about addiction, however, you'd know that dosage really isn't the only contributing factor. Consistency of use is often equally or even more important as long as the dosage being used is active.

Re:I must be an exception...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, just as I thought. You don't know anything but can't keep your useless, uninformed opinions to yourself. Who cares what you, a layman who slept through a couple of "psych classes in college back in the day," think of a particular DSM entry? Nobody who matters, that's who. Now run along and post something informative about video cards or Star Wars trivia or whatever you actually know something about.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Sorry. I thought dosage would be an obvious thing. Given the context of the argument.

And yes, I know how oftern a person takes a drug is a big contributing factor.

However, my point still stands, everyone's brain chemistry is different. And some people can take an amount of drugs and quit with no problems at a dose where the average person would normally become addicted.

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

You're right about one thing. Dosage is obviously an important factor of our disagreement. The "same" dosage, though? No. This is where you tried to twist the arguement into something that it was not...and failed. Your point is dead. Go read something.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

You've lost me now. What have I tried to twist?

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

Our disagreement is based on the idea caffeine is (me) or is not (you) addictive for all humans provided that they have been consuming an active dosage not an equal dosage.

Bottom line:

If you're feeling the effects of a chemical, AND said chemical is known to be physically addictive; then you WILL experience withdrawal symptoms. Please go away.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

The original context of this argument is normal dosages, not the exact scientific active dose for each indervidual person. This should have been obvious.

If you're feeling the effects of a chemical, AND said chemical is known to be physically addictive; then you WILL experience withdrawal symptoms.

That's a very generalised statement, so I hope you have some evidence to back it up, or clarify it.

Please go away.

Please keep the childish bullshit out of this argument, OK?

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

The original context of this argument is normal dosages, not the exact scientific active dose for each indervidual person. This should have been obvious.

Haha! First you say "same." Now "normal?" Get it together. You keep changing your tune and claiming that it should have been obvious. I know what we've been discussing. You're the one who's trying to figure it out, remember?

That's a very generalised statement, so I hope you have some evidence to back it up, or clarify it.

The evidence is out there. Like I said, go read something. I can't bear to carry on any longer. You know where I stand. I know where you've shifted your stance to and from. That's really all there is to say. You can't expect me to write a research paper for you just because you don't believe common knowledge.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Haha! First you say "same." Now "normal?" Get it together.

You're the one who claimed "same".

You're just not noticing the symptoms and/or chalking them up to generic headaches that have no cause. The withdrawals are real. I ignored/didn't notice them for years.

That is your original comment. How can you possibly make such a statment unless you believe that any dose of any drug will always have withdrawal symptoms?

You assumed that any dose, or at least a similar dose, will always have the same addiction and will therefore always produce withdrawal syptoms.

Re:I must be an exception...

[oneiron]

Active dosage, you halfwit. I'm having a hard time believing you're this stupid. This is beginning to smell like a troll. Oh well, at least it was fun! I'm turning off email notification, and I will not be revisiting this thread. Have fun talking to yourself. I'm sure you will.

Re:I must be an exception...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

You're an idiot. You fucked up and you simply don't want to admit it.

Your original post not only said nothing about active dosage, but actually implied the opposite: That the dose did not matter, and that a person will have withdrawal symptoms no matter what the dosage was. Not, that everyone will have withdrawal symptoms if they have enough to meet their own active dosage level.

I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[Baldrson]

I was a 6 cup a day coffee addict when I decided to start using creatine for other reasons. In the directions they give you for creatine, they tell you to stop caffine intake. I'd never been able to stop caffine intake without withdrawl symptoms, but this time, loading creatine doses of 5 heaping teaspoons a day, I suffered no noticable withdraw.

I'm now taking 1 heaping teaspoon of creatine a day and on those occasions I drink coffee at all it is about 1/2 to 1 cup early in the morning.

Re:I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[Anonymous Coward]

Creatine? Let us know when your kidneys shit the bed, mkay?

Re:I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[Baldrson]

Will do -- if I take enough creatine to do that. I don't take creatine religiously and haven't noticed withdrawl on the days I don't. Besides, there is hardly a strong connection between moderate creatine intake and kidney disease. There's a stronger connection between drinking beer and liver disease. Do you drink beer?

Re:I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[l3v1]

So what you say is C8H10N4O2 is bad and C4H9N3O2 is good ? Man, so that will surely make me stop on my daily caffeine :P

Re:I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, I found coffee to be much cheaper and to taste much better than creatine, so I decided to stick with it.

Re:I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[Anonymous Coward]

I do drink alcohol, but in moderation. On the other hand, I have had a kidney transplant.

Trust me on this: Kidney failure doesn't "hurt" and you won't feel any withdrawal if you go from a high-protein/creatine diet to a low-protein one. In a similar manner, if you overdo it, you won't feel anything either.

By the time you notice the symptoms of end-stage renal failure (anemia, high blood pressure, tingling in the extremities), you're pretty much screwed. I was lucky and got my transplant a couple of weeks before I would have had to start dialysis, but you would have never known it by looking at me. I played tennis and climbed a small mountain the day before I had my transplant, and ran up six flights of stairs to the transplant ward when I checked in.

If you're going to take the stuff, check with your doctor. Make sure they do a renal panel with your blood work.

Re:I kicked coffee accidentally with creatine

[Baldrson]

Thanks for the heads up on the renal panel. Will do.

Anyway, until I see something come up on my renal panel or something to countervail the following study, I'll probably continue to take creatine monohydrate in moderate amounts.

Does Creatine Supplementation Cause Kidney Damage?
by Curt Pedersen

December 20, 1999

Creatine monohydrate is one of the few sport supplements that when used properly, produces measurable results. Research has found that creatine monohydrate helps increase muscle mass, muscular strength, and power when as little as 3 grams are taken per day for thirty days. Many people have suggested that creatine monohydrate, although proven as an ergogenic aid could possibly cause damage to the kidneys. Fortunately, science is beginning to produce answers to show whether or not creatine monohydrate supplementation causes kidney damage.

One recent study compared kidney health in creatine users and non-users. The creatine group consisted of competitive athletes that had been using between 1-20 grams of creatine monohydrate for an extended period of time (10 months to 5 years). The non-user group consisted of men and women from the universities graduate program. Blood and urine tests were performed on each subject from both groups to determine the effect of creatine on kidney health and function.

Results from the study indicated that creatine monohydrate supplementation did not have any adverse affects on kidney function or health in any of the subjects in the creatine user group. While this information suggests that creatine monohydrate does not cause kidney damage in healthy men and women, individuals with kidney or other health problems should consult their physician prior to using creatine monohydrate.

Source
Poortmans J, Francaux M. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol. 31, N0. 8, pp. 1108-1110, 1999.

What's the issue with coffee?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, I admit that coffee doesn't smell that bad but the taste is unpalatably bitter. No matter how much sugar you add, it's just like chewing bark (done that, know what I'm talking about). I originally thought that it's a question of choosing the wrong brand or substandard quality but after trying many available options I've come to the conclusion that coffee is as desirable a commodity as getting one's head hit repeatedly with a blunt and heavy object. I can't understand how somebody can get addicted to that!

I tried to get addicted-It did not work!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always HATED coffee. It is bitter, it tastes like ashes, nothing to like!. I tried to get used to it,but it did not work.

Now I am 52; when I was a teenager I tried really hard to smoke but I never got used to it, the taste is awful, bitter and makes you choke, it reminds me of coffee.

Some brands of beer are bitter, I also don't like them. I like wine and brandy.

Sometimes people don't get addicted due to the awful taste and smell. It is certainly my case

StarBucks knows this

[koan]

Look at their "empire of addiction" not only that but they are jacking up their prices once again.

Seriously...

[lildogie]

I think you've been trolled.

Beware of journalists in researchers' clothing.

ohh what an interesting report.

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah. internet is addictive too, so what?

coffee caused cancer?
coffee destroyed families?

First state to ban this?

[Loco3KGT]

California.

Yay for left wing politics and the government tell you how to live your life!

Re:First state to ban this?

[eluusive]

Actually, get your facts straight: It's the right that constantly wants to ban drugs and abortion. Liberals are the ones who DO the drugs. Don't get the two confused.

Re:First state to ban this?

[Loco3KGT]

No, you just ban things you think people shouldn't do like..

fake sun tanning

But you support the things you do do, like drugs.

Neither one is good for you, but since *you* do those things it's ok.

You're just like us pal :-)

Re:First state to ban this?

[eluusive]

I don't ban anything, you do what you like. heh

gmail invites

[Anonymous Coward]

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7c5d8ea6b6-acadac2 4b3-233121daac

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7c5d8ea6b6-99419f8 430-f71200897d

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7c5d8ea6b6-c385194 253-cda3163b5b

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7c5d8ea6b6-27e1578 1ab-3e2aaac9b8

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7c5d8ea6b6-70aa965 473-69d6019526

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7c5d8ea6b6-f88ab3c d3f-41ae8b0c64

The War on Drugs funds Terrorists

[Dr. Evil]

...sorry, just had to say it. Prohibition funds organized crime of all sorts.

Re:The War on Drugs funds Terrorists

[Reziac]

I've long contended that the primary lobbyists behind anti-drug laws and the "war on drugs" are *the drug lords themselves* -- to keep prices artificially high through artificial scarcity, thus maintaining their lucrative revenue stream. (If there are terrorists funded by same, it's no doubt incidental, in that they just happen to be the handiest and cheapest source point for the raw materials.)

This of course leads to increased local crime as junkies are forced to steal to support their habit, and gang wars as local dealers protect their turf.

Legalise drugs, and these problems will largely go away. Plus the effects in society can then be handled the same way as alcohol problems (including application of DWI/DUI laws for the safety of others), without needlessly ruining lives, as prosecution for victimless crimes now often does.

Furthermore, if legalized, regulated, and taxed in the same way cigarettes and alcohol are, that's a HUGE tax base just waiting to be used, that would not negatively impact anyone other than those who actually use the product. And it might slow the increases on other taxes (such as sales, income, and property taxes) that DO impact everyone.

Not to mention the positive public health impacts: no more need to share dirty equipment, better quality control so fewer adverse reactions/side effects, etc.

[/rant]

Re:The War on Drugs funds Terrorists

[runderwo]

I've long contended that the primary lobbyists behind anti-drug laws and the "war on drugs" are *the drug lords themselves*

Where are you getting this information? Show us the flow of money, i.e. from opensecrets.org. As far as I know, it's well established that donations from Big Tobacco, Big Alcohol, and the pharmaceutical industry are correlated with a politician supporting the WoD.

Re:The War on Drugs funds Terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

It's almost useless to preach this approach since it is proven beyond doubt. The problem is that authorities want to have something in hand against those taking the risk to take illegal drugs. This is a dangerous part of society. Put them in prison. They are political prisoners. Did you know that the US has a larger part of it's population in prison than the Soviets ever had? Or any other part of the world?

The US are a aristocracy and it wouldn't stay that way just because, it has to fight hard to stay an aristocracy.

Re:The War on Drugs funds Terrorists

[Reziac]

I reached this conclusion from watching the situation for over 40 years... there is no real logic to the "war on drugs" unless there is indeed a money flow involved.

And yes, it certainly is in the alcohol/tobacco/pharmaceuticals best interests to keep everything else illegal, effectively suppressing that market. But since people still widely obtain and use the illegal drugs, merely suppressing them doesn't benefit the Big 3 to anywhere near the market value of the illegal stuff. So I asked myself... who most benefits? the bulk wholesalers of illegal stuff, of course.

watch out for Mr Coffee Nerves!

[jeff munkyfaces]

http://www.lileks.com/comics/coffnerv/coff1/index. html

You have to be careful about DiHydrogen Monoxide

[israfil_kamana]

This important site will make this issue clear for you. If we would stop worrying about substances of proven minimal danger like caffeine, and deal with a vastly more dangerous substance, like dihydrogen monoxide, we'd all be healthier.

Doesn't bother me...

[OwlWhacker]

I drink tea.

This just in

[sielwolf]

The sky is blue. Water's wet.

That's it...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am checking into a coffee rehab facility as soon as possible.

Quitting?-Sex

[Anonymous Coward]

"All of you people that say that quitting something is easy, should actually try before saying anything."

So how do you quit sex?

Re:Quitting?-Sex

[whiteranger99x]

So how do you quit sex?

Somehow, I don't think that'll be of any concern here, just look at who you're referring to. :P

Guess who loses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisons in the USA are privatized -- corporations really.

YES, they DO contribute to candidates who support the war on drugs, "3 strikes", etc. Obviously, the more people jailed for addictions -- the better -- since they're likely to be "repeat customers".

Because drug-related crimes account for 60% of the US prison population (that's "drug related"... not "murder related to drugs"), if you DON'T jail people for crack you'd end up with excess prison capacity. (And if you TRIED jailing for powder coke, you might end up jailing the First Daughters... so lets just stick to punishing crack OK? ;-).

Re:Guess who loses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did you get your info that 100% of American prisons are privatized? You said it like it was a well-known fact. It isn't. Go thou and do a little more research and get back to us.

Re:Guess who loses?

[runderwo]

YES, they DO contribute to candidates who support the war on drugs

Please provide a link for reference.

Caffeine Good!

[sciop101]

Caffeine is useful.

Besides getting the heart beating faster, caffeine gets drugs into the human system faster. The selling point of Excedrin & Excedrin Migraine is the caffeine.

I have seen alcoholics drink more cups of coffee at a 60 minute meeting than I drink pints in an eveninig of darts!

If only someone would have told me in time!

[UpLateDrinkingCoffee]

Seriously though, I drink a moderate amount of coffee (and, even through my nickname eludes otherwise, almost never at night) and I have gotten headaches when not drinking any, say, over the weekend. But, I wonder where the line gets drawn here. The human body can form an addiction to lots of things if they stimulate the brain properly. Some of those things we can't live without as a society, such as sex. It seems to me the part that makes addictive substances so dangerous is when they induce cravings for more and more. From personal experience, coffee seems to be pretty benign in this respect. Even though they have documented withdrawl symptoms, any addicion "feels" more like a conditioned response, not anything chemical.

Re:If only someone would have told me in time!

[Reziac]

To clear up a common misunderstanding:

Addiction is not the NEED for something. Rather, addiction is the *inability to function without it*.

Which is true?

[shockwaverider]

Spot the difference?

"Coffee is really addictive" : Slashdot cover story

"Coffee really is addictive" : Original article

Who says Slashdot are really cut and paste merchants?

The War on Drugs

[Ride-My-Rocket]

This could have a drastic effect on the security and well-being of our citizens if caffeine is ever reclassified as a Schedule 1 drug. The last type of person I ever want to meet is a strung-out, hallucinating coffee junkie jonesing for his next fix.

Well DUH

[Anonymous Coward]

Was this in the Ig Noble awards?
Did I miss it?

adaptive response turned Maladaptive

[bstadil]

Addiction is not the right way to characterized sugar.

Gouging yourselves with something sweet once found is an adaptive evolutionary response as it increases likelihood of survival. It is this response that in a modern society of plenty suddenly becomes maladaptive hence all the fat people.

Re:adaptive response turned Maladaptive

[drinkypoo]

First, the word I think you want is "gorging", not "gouging". There is a substantial difference. Second, I'm not sure how eating a lot of sweets increases your chance of survival. It's bad for your pancreas. Third, sugar is a drug in a certain sense, in that it provokes a sudden and dramatic change in brain chemistry when overconsumed through the rapid production of glucose which floods the brain and tells it that you're full. However, over time the brain is desensitized to this message (all carbohydrates have this problem, actually - sugar is simply the most readily-converted carbohydrate and thus the most problematic) and it takes more and more glucose, hence larger and larger carbohydrate intakes to feel full. The change in brain chemistry and the dependence on it developed over time indicates to me that addiction is precisely the right word to use to describe the need to consume it. It satisfies; it requires ever-increasing amounts to satisfy; and when not under its influence it will not be possible to feel good ("normal") because you will feel hungry and tired.

Obvious "science"

[erik_norgaard]

It is amazing that there are people getting paid for stating the very obvious. I can't help thinking of Douglas Adams' theory that people need to state and repeat the very obvious or else their brain might start working.

So, to the list:

* High intake of any substance, exceeding some limit, will kill you.

* Low intake of some substances will kill you.

* It is generally not a good idea to be where the plane crashes.

* You may die from other causes than planes crashing on you.

* Nuclear weapons may be dangerous in the hands of kids (needs futher experimental confirmation).

Re:Obvious "science"

[advance512]

Nothing is "obvious" in science.

It's obvious that the sun goes around us, isn't it? It rises every morning in the east and sets in the west. This belief is so obvious that no one thought of contradicting it for thousands of years.

And it's also obvious that given any two distinct points, there is exactly one line that includes both points. Isn't it? It has never been proven, nor can it be proven. But it seems so obvious!

Nothing in this life is as simple as you believe it to be, and nothing is obvious.

Re:Obvious "science"

[LiquidRaptor]

And it's also obvious that given any two distinct points, there is exactly one line that includes both points. Isn't it? It has never been proven, nor can it be proven. But it seems so obvious!

not sure if you meant to say that it hasn't been proven, but multiple lines can connect 2 points if the surface is curved like a sphere or somthing. for example, say you want to connect dc to la straight line across the us, of course you could also have a line go at an angle up through canada and around the world and connect with the lax, so it's possible with a sphere.

Re:Obvious "science"

[advance512]

I was thinking of Euclid's First Postulate ("A straight line segment can be drawn joining any two points"), but I guess I should've been more careful with my wording.

I'll blame it on the hour :)

Re:Obvious "science"

[erik_norgaard]

Let me give you an example: It has been comfirmed by numerous studies that sunbathing increases the risk of skin cancer due to the ultraviolet radiation in normal sunlight.

Earlier this year, I read about a new study: "Sunbathing topless increases the risk of cancer on the breast."

First, this headline can easily create worries that we are talking about breast cancer which has a much higher mortality rate - typical journalists trying to push things into sensations.

Secondly, reading the article, it was about skin cancer. Given the previous studies, this is simply not surprising at all.

This is no-news or obvious science: If increased exposure to ultraviolet light increases the risk of skin cancer on the exposed areas, then sunbathing topless (hence exposing the breasts to increased ultraviolet radiation) increases the risk of skin cancer on the breasts. It would have been absolutely breaking new science if the oposite conclusion were found, but it was not.

Unfortunately there are tons of this kind of studies that blur the public information and education.

True, there exists basic statements where the proof may not be that straight forward, if it exists at all. But the existence of such example does not exclude the existense of obvious science as you state.

Denial is addictive...

[argent]

Joseph DeRupo, a spokesman for the National Coffee Association, said the scientific evidence is that caffeine is not an addictive substance

Looks like the National Coffee Association has caught a bad case of denial from the tobacco lobby.

Denial is addictive. You get started on it, and you can't give it up. The near-term side effects of denial withdrawal in a corporation include loss of face, declining market share, and organizational stress expressed in counterproductive behaviours like reorganizations and firing of scapegoats.

Longer term, though, it's utterly liberating. You can even develop whole new markets like "light beer", "sugarless gum", and "secure operating systems".

OK, the last one might be a little far-fetched...

The Coffee made me do it.

[TheLoneCabbage]

What it does meen is I now have a legal basis for beating the cr@p out of the Starbucks clerk when he doesn't understand I just want plain black coffee.

It's worse here in Israel, where the idea of coffee is synonymous with milk. Every time I go somewhere for coffee it's a 5 minuet ordeal, that I am not caffinated enough to deal with.

"Caffe, Shovar, ein Chalav, ein sukar" (Translation: Coffee, black. No milk, no Sugar)

"Espresso".

"Lo Nescafe",(Trans: no instant.)

"Ah Nescafe Latte" (Trans: Oh, you must be wrong, and want Instant coffee mixed with steamed milk)

"LO! Nescafe, im maim cham. Ze Oh." (Trans: No you freaking moron. Put instant coffee in hot water, nothing else!)

"Maim? oh Chalav?" (Trans: No one actually drinks coffee like that here. You want it with milk)

"Look I'm a f@#$ing American. My hebrew sucks, and I know you speak 3 d@#$ languages so you can understand this. All I want is caffine in water. No milk, I'm lactose intolerant. No suggar I'm a diabetic. So unless you want me farting while I'm going through sugar shock on your floor, PUT INSTANT COFFEE IN HOT WATTER AND LET ME PAY YOU FOR IT!!"

Ah... I feel better now.

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[the_mad_poster]

Huh? I thought there was already a precedent for beating Starbucks employees due to the fact that... well.... they're starbucks employees.

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[Jerf]

I have to ask: Does it work, or just make you feel better? :-)

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[Anonymous Coward]

And people the world over wonder why Israeli cafes are targets for suicide bombers...

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[dondelelcaro]

"Espresso".

"Lo Nescafe",(Trans: no instant.)

Not sure if you'll be able to get it, but the typical method of dealing with this madness is to ask for an Americano. No instant coffee mess, and then you only have to bother with the fact that they'll still try to push steamed milk on you. [Maybe ask for steamed soy milk to really screw with them...]

Reminds me of the madness of trying to get a vegitarian white castle burger. "You want a burger? Without meat?"

"Yes"

"A burger without meat? Let me find my manager"

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[Trogre]

Dude,

What did you expect, from a land flowing with milk and honey?

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[advance512]

That is a funny post, but you can't blame the sales person. :)

Israel is a multi-cultural country made up of many different people or varying origins; we have the coffee cultures to prove it. Here are the main ones:

1. The Eastern/Arabic coffee culture. Turkish/Greek coffee mostly, which is what people here assume you mean when you say black coffee. It can be served with many different spices, and is probably the most popular coffee brew in Israel, mostly with the working class. The "Ma and Pap" (e.g. "Pitzutziot") and 7-11 style shops sell these, which are rarely found in corporate coffee chains. "American black coffee" is simply instant or filter coffee, with no milk - which is something almost no one here drinks.
2. The Italian coffee culture. It was actually introduced by corporate coffee chains similiar to Starbuck's (the local Aroma and Arcafe chains). The main drinks served there are the standard Espresso, Cappucino, and Latté. A favourite with women is Iced Coffee. These brews are mostly popular with the high-tech and academic crowds. An interesting fact is that the "Americano" type of coffee isn't sold here, as far as I know. We have short (1:1 water to coffee ratio), long (2:1) and double (2:2) Espresso servings.
3. American/Western coffee culture (instant coffee). This is mostly popular here with people who like the weaker coffee types (and sometimes teens). It's the most accessible brew (primarily to small business who don't have coffee machines), but rarely found in the corporate coffee chains. Most offices in Israel offer instant coffee to the workers instead of the American filter coffee (or drip brew) machine - which is next to non-existant in Israel. Like I said before - this is rarely drank in the style of "American black coffee". Usually it is served as "2 sugar, with milk".

Oh, by the way, "Shovar" actually means voucher, not black. Next time try:

"Ca-feh, Na-meh-s, bli khalav, bli sookar." (Translation: Coffee, instant. No milk, no sugar)

Good luck and have a pleasant time in our insane little country :)

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[jackbird]

"Ein" is possessive. You're saying "Coffee [something], I don't have milk, don't have sugar (not sure what 'shovar' means - black is 'shachor'). Try "l'lo" (note double lamed sound) or "b'li" for "without" - "nescafe, [l'lo|b'li] sucar o chalav".

If you want brewed coffee, it's "feelter," served with a wierd single-cup brewing contraption on top of the cup, and hence without condiments included by necessity. Not a drink to grab and run, however.

More Israeli coffee fun:

Try some "botz" (literally 'mud': coffee grounds mixed with hot water - wait for it to settle (think Guinness) anddefinitely NOT 'good to the last drop') or "cafe turki" (turkish coffee). "Cafe bedoui" (Bedouin coffee) is roasted with cardamom and tastes very different.

Oh, and if you ever want decaf, "natool caffina" is the way to say it - it took me quite a while to figure that one out.

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[cafuego]

Sorry, but what does Starbucks have to do with coffee?

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[ddent]

Well, that is what they purport to sell...

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of trying to order tea in the USA.

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[tabrnaker]

Doesn't it make you feel dumb that a little thing like caffeine makes you lose control? Why don't you just stop drinking it? Are you too busy with your 'life' that you have no time to respect your body?

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[Ben Jao Ming]

Now try saying that to a coffee machine in Prague...

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[Kehvarl]

How would I say "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot, Shaken not Stirred"?

Re:The Coffee made me do it.

[TheLoneCabbage]

Your one of those self ritious people who harps on smokers aren't you?

Vegitarian too?

Why can't we all be just like you!?! Why G_D WHY!?!

I've been living my life pretty well up untill now. Thankyou oh so much for setting me straight!

Out devil caffine out!

Of course when my boss fires me for sleeping at my desk I'll have to turn to booze.

FYI: I bike 20mi a day. I eat 6 oz of animal protien per week. And have a resting heart rate under 45bpm. Coffee does just fine by me, so go take a flying leap you loon.

You have to be two times as cereful with O2

[arose]

O2 is much more dangerous than DiHydrogen Monoxide. Besides beeing highly addictive it is responsible for 100% of all destrutive fires.

Re:You have to be two times as cereful with O2

[Eric119]

Oh, yeah? Well, dihydrogen monoxide is also extremely addictive just like O2. Every year thousands of people die from breathing in too much of this chemical. It's also a major component of acid rain. It causes many metals to corrode. I'd like to see your "dangerous" chemical O2 live up to that!

SUGAR = DRUGS!~!~!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sugar is addictive:
----
Main Entry: 1sugar
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sugre, sucre, from Middle French sucre, from Medieval Latin zuccarum, from Old Italian zucchero, from Arabic sukkar, from Persian shakar, from Skt sarkarA; akin to Sanskrit sarkara pebble - more at CROCODILE
1 a : a sweet crystallizable material that consists wholly or essentially of sucrose, is colorless or white when pure tending to brown when less refined, is obtained commercially from sugarcane or sugar beet and less extensively from sorghum, maples, and palms, and is important as a source of dietary carbohydrate and as a sweetener and preservative of other foods b : any of various water-soluble compounds that vary widely in sweetness and include the oligosaccharides (as sucrose)
2 : a unit (as a spoonful, cube, or lump) of sugar
3 : a sugar bowl
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=D iction ary&va=sugar
----
Main Entry: 1drug
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English drogge
1 a obsolete : a substance used in dyeing or chemical operations b : a substance used as a medication or in the preparation of medication c according to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (1) : a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary (2) : a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease (3) : a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body (4) : a substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part, or accessory of a device
2 : a commodity that is not salable or for which there is no demand -- used in the phrase drug on the market
3 : something and often an illegal substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona ry?book=Diction ary&va=drug
-----
Now you too, can earn money proving it.

No rights reserved.
-=DR=-SoB

Re:SUGAR = DRUGS!~!~!

[orkysoft]

2 : a commodity that is not salable or for which there is no demand -- used in the phrase drug on the market

This line really cracks me up.

Mental disorders are classifications

[joelhayhurst]

mental illness
n.
Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.

This is all a mental disorder is. It does not assign blame. Caffeine withdrawal exhibits certain predictable symptoms affecting the normal order of a person's mind, and as such it makes sense to classify it as what it is, a disorder. The word "disorder" just means things are mentally messed up; it does not imply the person was "born" with caffeine withdrawal or blameless for having this disorder, anymore than a psychopath is granted amnesty just because they have antisocial personality disorder.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[robochan]

mental illness
n.
Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors...

So zits can now be considered a mental illness?

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[untaken_name]

Apparently, getting your feelings hurt by a rude comment, leading to being laughed at by others....that's a mental illness. You see, it's a social factor causing an impairment of your normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning. Watching a tear-jerker....that's a mental illness. Did you stub your toe? Mental illness.

Next time the definition of 'mental illness' is updated, don't be surprised if it looks like this:
Mental illness: n.
Anything.

Eventually, no one will be held responsible for anything they do because they will be able to lay the blame off on some 'mental illness'.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[jaelle]

An angle I've never seen really recognized on the whole drug question is that caffeine, and other stimulants actually improve mental functioning in the first place, at least up to a certain level. So it's really not surprising that going off it de-improves it. Stimulants and some other drugs are also more effective for some people..look at ADHD for example. I've also seen people who function much better on marijuana, cocaine, tranquilizers. Making them stop taking them is consigning them to a lower level of mental function that does not improve after the 'addiction' wears off. Whatever idiots do when they misuse drugs should not make the drugs unavailable to those who can actually get some use out of them. Let Darwin handle it.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[God of Lemmings]

IANANeurologist, but on a related note, caffeine addiction could be considered a symptom or indicator of a brain disorder. One of its lesser known effects is that it slows flow of blood to the pre-frontal cortex, which could contribute a headache when it wears off and the blood flows more freely. The prefrontal cortex is what is responsible for things like motivation and your internal monologue. Which is quite interesting in that while caffeine is a good stimulant, it also makes us lazy and impairs our thinking at some level.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[Couldn'tCareLess]

Hmm. Maybe the should change it to:

Mental illness: n.
Being human

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[Threni]

mental illness
n.
Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.


Does this cover Christianity?

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[lga]

Does this cover Christianity?

There is no reason to attribute Christianity to impaired thinking on the part of Christians just because their opinion does not match up with yours.

Calling someone mentally ill because their beliefs are different from yours is merely bad debate. Freedom of speech and religion means that other people are entitled to be Christians even if you don't want to be, and they are entitled to be that without being accused of mental illness.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[Threni]

I'm not really all that interested in your opinion of which subjects I'm entitled , legally or morally, to talk about. I'm merely suggesting that the behaviour of a Christian falls within that particular definition of mental illness, in much the same way that homosexuality was a recognized illness until the early 1970's in the USA.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[Disevidence]

I don't know. Believing in the words of a book written 1500-2000 years ago seems to me to be an impairment of normal cognitive thinking, and certainly leads to large bouts of irrationality.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[untaken_name]

Hmm. Maybe the should change it to:

Mental illness: n.
Being human


Yes, that would make a lot of people happy. With the amount of 'mental illness' like ADD and 'sometimes feeling a little bit unhappy' already overprescribed, the drug companies and chemical psychiatrists would love it.

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[miskatonic alumnus]

Jesus. That definition is so broad in scope as to include almost everything. So, when someone nearly sideswipes me in traffic and I get pissed-off and start swearing like I'm afflicted with coprolalia, it's a mental disorder.

There is a problem with this definition. What exactly is normal cognitive behavior? Mine varies with the amount of sleep, work, caffeine, etc. I've said it for years --- psychiatrists, sociologists, and their ilk are not real scientists. They are charlatans that clothe their gobbledygook in pseudo-mathematical formulae and reams of data in order to fool the laymen. And it works a great deal of the time --- but not all the time. Serge Lang talks about this kind of thing in "Challenges".

Re:Mental disorders are classifications

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, it seems lga's lost it. Someone lock him up in the looney bin.

From Personal experience

[Crashmarik]

I drink roughly 40 ounces of coffee every day. Every few months I ll withdraw cold turkey just to get my sleep cycle right. 2 asprin a couple times a day for the first 2 days and its done. If you want to call that an addiction fine but I would suggest coming up with a new name for things that you actually have to withdraw from.

not to be OT or anything...

[Anonymous Coward]

Please learn how to use the apostrophe!

And yes, I've had my coffee today!

So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[Anonymous Coward]

"That, and I think people would be happier :D"

Would they now? The drug problem isn't just about "cost of drugs", but the social problems that they bring. Never had a family torn apart by drug addiction, have you? It's easy to keep deluding ourselves "If only we follow our natures, we'll all be so happy."(1) Even those countries that have legalized drugs (and sex) have found that such a decision isn't "consequence free" for the individuals nor society.

(1) Just look at what food addiction is doing to America, and you can get that free of restrictions.

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[Kick the Donkey]

"The drug problem isn't just about "cost of drugs", but the social problems that they bring. Never had a family torn apart by drug addiction, have you?"

And why is it the job of the government to keep me from making poor descisions for myself, or to help keep your family from being torn apart. I know several people who can responsibably handle drugs. I responsiably handle alcohol, myself.

We should not punish all for the actions of a few...

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[Twisted Grind]

"Even those countries that have legalized drugs (and sex)..."

Wow...I'd hate to live in one of those countries that hasn't legallized sex...although I'm sure they'd have some of the lowest birth rates in the world!

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[MarcQuadra]

I've lost two friends to heroin, and several others to all sorts of other drugs. I also support legalization and regulation.

You probably don't know, because you've never bought 'dirty' coke, heroin, or ecstasy. If the quality were regulated and poisonous additives were disbarred the drugs would be a lot safer, there would be a huge reduction in hospitalization costs and long-term damage to abusers.

I think the prices for the legal drugs should be set by the state government though, and the MINIMUM price should be the 'street price' today, adjusted annually for inflation. The huge revenues would go towards rehabilitation, prevention, and then to general education funds. We could also stop subsidizing farmers domestically because they'd finally have a new viable cash crop.

Heroin should be sold in small doses (2 hits?) at a time, in a packet with an appropriate number of needles, to prevent HIV spread.

The countries that have legalized drug sales haven't properly implemented a way to capture the value of the sales back into the government, they only 'solved' the enforcement side of the problem, and at the same time have LOWERED the cost of the drugs, which spurs use.

In my plan, use would not increase at all because the costs would be higher. The black market of drug trade would end, thus ending the violence caused by drug market cluture. Enforcement costs would turn into 'violation revenues.' Addicts would get treatment, proper treatment in in-house programs that have a net-zero cost because they'd be funded by the revenues off the sales.

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[marsu_k]

Even those countries that have legalized drugs (and sex) have found that such a decision isn't "consequence free" for the individuals nor society.

First of all, I'm glad to live in a country that hasn't criminalized sex ;-) But seriously, I knew I could debunk your claim, but I'd had to do some googling first to be beliveable.

However, my search results surprised me. The first page I managed to come up with was this, that says: "Fact 9: Europe's more liberal drug policies are not the right model for America. The Legalization Lobby claims that the "European Model" of the drug problem is successful. However, since legalization of marijuana in Holland, heroin addiction levels have tripled. And Needle Park seems like a poor model for America."

So I refined my search terms a bit. Here is a Dutch page about heroin use. Indeed, the amount of heroin users grew from about 10000 in 1977 to 30000 in 1983, but has remained quite stable since and the number of users (in 1998) is estimated to be 25000.

And it struck me, ingenious propaganda that first link was. Indeed, the number of users tripled (albeit has been reducing in recent years), but it could have said as well "the amount of heroin users in the Netherlands has remained constant for 20 years". Which doesn't sound that bad does it?

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[Anonymous Coward]

"And why is it the job of the government to keep me from making poor descisions for myself, or to help keep your family from being torn apart."

Let's flip that around, and ask. Why should society suffer the effects of your bad decisions? Even if you only harm yourself. Society has to pay the costs of picking up your body. Doing the autopsy. Putting your needle-tracked body into a hole in the ground.

I'm just waiting for people to get around to the realization that the world is intertwinned, and has been that way for centuries.

"We should not punish all for the actions of a few... "

Nor should the many suffer the effects of the few.

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[runderwo]

Let's flip that around, and ask. Why should society suffer the effects of your bad decisions? Even if you only harm yourself. Society has to pay the costs of picking up your body. Doing the autopsy. Putting your needle-tracked body into a hole in the ground.

Actually, in most locales your relatives are responsible for costs incurred upon your death. Hence things like "final cost insurance". You could use this same argument against any risky behavior that leads to a higher probability of death. Unfortunately, just about everything we do is risky in one way or another, and for most things we probably aren't even aware of the risks yet.

Re:So is alcohol-Nature Neutering.

[Kick the Donkey]

Indeed, the amount of heroin users grew from about 10000 in 1977 to 30000 in 1983

I wonder what the population increase was during that same period? It probably didn't triple, but these numbers would be more useful had they been given as % of the population...

The scientists of Thank?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who is this Thank who possesses scientists? Or did you mean "Thank's" as a contraction for "Thank is", which makes no sense.

If you don't know when to use an apostrophe, then do not use it at all.

Definition of addiction?

[aismail3]

DeRupo said the scientific evidence is that caffeine is not an addictive substance, however. Altering the coffee-drinking routine is what produces problems, researchers found.

The only difference I see between the two is that altering your consumption of caffeine can mean either lowering or raising it. If you can't lower your caffeine consumption without causing problems, aren't you technically addicted?

Re:Definition of addiction?

[baxissimo]

If you can't lower your caffeine consumption without causing problems, aren't you technically addicted?

No. I don't think so at all. I personally got these caffeine withdrawl headaches several times in college before I realized they were connected with reduced caffiene intake. (I just seemed to get these headaches the first day after I got home from school on vacation and started taking it easy. Of course it was because I wasn't drinking coffee and trying to stay up 24hrs like I did at school when I was on vacation.) But the point is, I never had a craving for coffee or caffeine. I didn't even realize it was lack of coffee that was causing the headache. So I think it is a stretch to call something like that an addiction. Maybe I'd call it a mild physical dependency, but not an addiction. There's no chemical psychological dependency.

But I suppose addiction researchers have probably gone and defined the word in as broad a way as possible so that they can call as many phenomenon as possible part of their purview. Like "internet addiction". Sheesh. Lack of self discipline is more like it.

Caffeine Addictive? Absolutely...

[MadMorf]

My girlfriend, normally a total sweetheart, becomes Godzilla, wading through Tokyo, when you get between her and her first cup of morning coffee...

At first I thought she was just putting me on, but on a road trip to Miami a couple of years ago, she just about ripped my head off when I made a wrong turn on the way to the local Dunkin' Donuts...

Sounds like a job for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Captain Obvious!

Say, you kids like caffeine?

[nyrv]

Are you tired all the time? Is sleep getting in the way of productivity? Do you need to clean your house but just don't have the energy? You like caffeine, but it just isn't doing it for you anymore? Studies show that Methamphetamines correct all these problems and have a much stronger and longer lasting effect than caffeine.

Meth. A REAL addiction.

(One day I'll say something that will IMPROVE my karma. One day...)

What does this mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

"DeRupo said the scientific evidence is that caffeine is not an addictive substance, however. Altering the coffee-drinking routine is what produces problems, researchers found."

Caffeine is addictive but it isn't an addictive substance? What is the distinction?

An important distiinction

[mysticgoat]

...what makes caffeine addictive, rather than dependency forming (like sweet foods used as an emotional crutch), is its withdrawl symptoms...

Your distinction between physiological addiction and psychological dependency is an important point. It has been recognized for a long time by many in the health care professions that caffiene seems to have some qualities of physiological addiction. But there is rarely a psychological dependency of any great degree. Outdoor enthusiasts who regularly drink a pot or two of coffee a day during the work week can give it up easily for a week of camping in the mountains, etc. The astute ones recognize that they are going to have an early morning headache for a day or so, but generally regard that as a minor inconvenience. If asked to rate it against other inconveniences of camping, they'd probably put it below such things as toilet paper management.

OTOH, heroin's physiological addiction is pretty mild as such things go-- withdrawal from heroin is uncomfortable but not life-threatening, like withdrawal from several prescription drugs (antidepressants, diazepam, etc) can be. The cravings associated with heroin withdrawal are due to the strong psychological dependency.

And it does seem like a lot of the blimpos and tubbos I've encountered have a psychological dependency on twinkies that is literally pathological.

Hope the above makes sense. I'm still working on my first pot of coffee...

Re:An important distiinction

[BarryNorton]

OTOH, heroin's physiological addiction is pretty mild as such things go-- withdrawal from heroin is uncomfortable but not life-threatening, like withdrawal from several prescription drugs (antidepressants, diazepam, etc) can be. The cravings associated with heroin withdrawal are due to the strong psychological dependency.

While I agree that withdrawal from opiates is not as physically dangerous as withdrawl from certain classes of anti-depressants, which you quite rightly point can be life-threatening, its physical character is not to be under-estimated - William Burroughs (who also does a good job of distinguishing addicting substances from others, beyond the hype of his time) offers a chilling account (if you'll excuse the pun)...

Re:An important distiinction

[mysticgoat]

While its true that William S. Burroughs had a broad range of direct experience with lots and lots of drugs over many years, it is also true that he was a novelist and wrote fiction. Like a lot of his beat contemporaries, it becomes very hard to say how much he fictionalized his own life experiences.

Read him for his literary value, if you wish. But please don't read into his works any third-party objectivity-- he wasn't into that.

Re:An important distiinction

[BarryNorton]

While its true that William S. Burroughs had a broad range of direct experience with lots and lots of drugs over many years, it is also true that he was a novelist and wrote fiction. Like a lot of his beat contemporaries, it becomes very hard to say how much he fictionalized his own life experiences.

Actually, Junkie and Queer are not fiction - only names are changed. It's not difficult at all to see that they are indeed relating direct experience when one reads his letters from the time (in Harris' collection, and back and forth with Ginsberg, as published by City Lights as 'The Yage Letters') as well as coincidence with non-fiction (such as Ginsberg's journals and Miles' interviews with those involved) and the semi-fictionalised accounts of Keruoac, Hunke etc.

Please don't tell me how to read Burroughs - after this many years of study I'll make up my own mind...

What you're forgetting...

[antizeus]

The prison guard lobby loses. What about the poor prison guards? Who will they guard if we put fewer people into their custody?

Re:What you're forgetting...

[XxtraLarGe]

You're also forgetting the prosecutting attorneys and the politicians, and the people who make "public service" announcements. How else are they going to be able to scare people witless and justify their existence?

Re:What you're forgetting...

[Artifakt]

I doubt that there is a single district or city that could cut their case load by enough if they stopped prosecuting drug offenses that they would need to lay off an assistant DA. Even if there was a long term effect, the existing prosecutors could stay employed for 10 years just reducing the case load to where the average case was finished in under a year again, and could probably be useful for another 10 years reviewing cold cases, doing pro-bono work, reviewing existing convict's appeals, parole hearings, and other such tasks.
Most of the people doing public service announcements got caught with something, and this is their way of working it off, not a means to profit.
That leaves the politicians. Their job security doesn't depend on scareing us witless, unless we let it. Whenever possible, vote for the candidates who don't stoop to scare tactics, (and not just drug related ones).

Re:What you're forgetting...

[Anonymous Coward]

More room for the P2P users.

What about "Unsafe at Any Speed"?

[crovira]

The GovCorp can run into some things that it can't just run around or run over. There are some things, like safety belts and collapsable steering columns, that did happen to challenge and change the assumptions of the auto industry about how their customer base viewed things that could save their own lives.

Unfortunately, there are too few Ralph Naders out there.

So is

[endoflux]

sex

damages Re:Next target in war on drugs ?

[WolfWithoutAClause]

I'm waiting for the 3rd party cases:

'I worked all day in starbucks and all the coffee smells so good; I couldn't help but get addicted. I'm asking for $100 million dollar damages- it has ruined my life.' ;-)

Re:Org. Johns Hopkins Medicine Press release (+P-F

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.

No.

RE: -10 insight-less!

[King_TJ]

How did the parent post get a +4 for Insightful, anyway? I guess there are at least 5 of you out there who believe this B.S. statement.

Seriously, sugar is hardly the problem with obesity in America. The problem is primarily one of poor eating habits, coupled with lack of exercise. (Not that anecdotes prove anything, but just to pull out one random example; I used to know a gal who was a strict vegetarian, and I *never* once saw her eat a piece of candy or "junk food" - yet she was overweight.)

If you consume more calories than you use, you gain weight. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter if those calories come in the form of sugar or "healthy foods". If you're eating more than you're burning off - you'll eventually get fat.

If sugary foods are contributing to the obesity problem, it's only in a more indirect way. (Snack foods tend to be "ready to eat" and conveniently packaged. When you can just grab it, unwrap it, and stuff it in your mouth - you're more likely to do so often, hence increasing your overall intake of calories.)

next target

[varkman]

after us smokers had our, you'll know what it is to be hunted down as villains for your nasty but satisfying habbit in public places.

Wait for the lawsuits

[Anonymous Coward]

How long will it take a rat of a lawyer to get some idiots forming up for a class-action lawsuit against coffee-makers and distributors?!!...

Caution It may be hot too!

[MoronBob]

Don't pour it on yourself.

Nitpick

[bigsexyjoe]

What they've found is that there is caffeine withdrawl. This doesn't mean addiction, it means physical dependence. Addiction is more of psychological condition in which you can't stop doing something in the face of negative consequences, e.g. you'll give out blow jobs if that's what you have to do to get your fix. Someone else gave this link to the actual study. It doesn't say addiction.

Re:Nitpick

[Anonymous Coward]

This is speculation. Coffee is not illegal, so you don't have to give out blow jobs to be able to buy a cup of coffee. As an Gedankenexperiment put coffee on a level with other illegal drugs and see what happens. Just for information: In many european contries coffee was illegal in the 17th century. Death sentence. Didn't help, people did risk to be killed and still drank coffee.

Re:Nitpick

[manickZe]

I aint giving out blowjobs just to get a cup of coffee.

the last 5 times i've forgotten to have coffee

[themusicgod1]

The last 5 times [at least!] which I've forgotten to have coffee in a day I've slept straight through at least one of my classes, and usually all of them. It doesn't even dawn upon me until much later where I find myself thinking
'hey wait a minute, my coffee pot is empty, and wasn't filled!'

Usually i have around a half a pot to a pot a day. I need around two cups just to get me up in the mornings to some level of coherency. All my recent screw ups I can pin the blame on me for not drinking enough coffee in whatever day they occur on. It kind of worries me, actually; It's becoming more of a 'I have to have coffee, or I will not function with even mediocre talent' rather than a 'with smore coffee I can do better, longer, faster!.'

Which is of course, why I'll be into provigil as soon as I can get easy access to some.

(anyways, I've written many a song on the vector-meme of coffee and caffeine addiction...although none of those have been finished off, you can find some here, from my attempted album ""past tense" )

Re:the last 5 times i've forgotten to have coffee

[Joe Tie.]

Which is of course, why I'll be into provigil as soon as I can get easy access to some. Oh, Modafinil! I used to use that back in my early school days, when I was also blessed with enough extra money to afford importing it. I was going on pretty short hours, and I found it amazingly helpful. Even on higher doses I never had that jittery effect from coffee, and it didn't feel like I was drugged as caffeine did for me - it just made me go from tired to normal. Hm, now that you've brought it up, I could sure go for some more as well!

twelve step meetings???

[seven of five]

So what are we s'posed to drink at our twelve step meetings? Distilled Water???

Um...

[Anonymous Coward]

No duh.

We must ban food and water now.

[james_r_boyer]

Food is addictive also. I have heard that if people dont get any they die. We should also ban water right away. Lets have some liberal like kerry take up the call for us.

Would really like to see "addiction" presented...

[3l1za]

as a continuum.

It disrespects what heroin users are to say they are "addicted" and then in the same breath use that same label to describe those who ordinarily drink joe in the morning.

Perhaps both demonstrate "withdrawal" symptoms but surely those experienced by the junkie are of an entirely different universe than the latter.

Perhaps location on the continuum would be assigned on the basis of how strong of a role physiology plays in the withdrawal symptoms (vs. psychology) and further how those withdrawal symptoms manifest. There is something chemically that goes on in the bodies of habitual heroin users when they stop using that cannot rightly be compared to someone griping that he/she is not as productive b/c he/she hasn't had her cup of joe yet that day.

We need some way of capturing or expressing this so that proper perspective is applied to studies such as this one.

It's a drug baby ...

[hotspotbloc]

Description of Fed. Schedules

Schedule II
Examples : Cocaine, Hydrocodone, Morphine, Opium, Amphetamine, PCP The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States or a currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions. Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence.

Schedule II drugs may be prescribed with a written prescription from a licensed physician or nurse practitioner.

So exactly what is keeping the DEA from making coffee a Schedule II drug? It has a high rate of recreational use.

Re:It's a drug baby ...

[corngrower]

So exactly what is keeping the DEA from making coffee a Schedule II drug?

Maybe the second item, no accepted medical use.

Re:It's a drug baby ...

[Vegeta99]

So technically it should be on Schedule I, no?

Re:It's a drug baby ...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Caffeine has a medical use as a MILD stimulant.

I emphasize the mild part, because that is what prevents if from being a schedule II drug. Then, like alcohol, there's also the fact that it's been popular and socially accepted in many cultures for many years.

Re:It's a drug baby ...

[hotspotbloc]

I emphasize the mild part, because that is what prevents if from being a schedule II drug.

Do you think that caffeine could be considered a Schedule III, Schedule IV or Schedule V drug (see Description of Fed. Schedules)? IMO caffeine could fit somewhere in there. I guess my point is why are some addictive drugs legally supplied to the public by tax paying companies and other drugs are illegally supplied by the criminal element (thus allowing the criminal element to profit without paying taxes)? I don't see anything that could stop the US Govt from making caffeine illegal at any time (except the throngs of caffeine addicts going wild looking for a quick fix).

OT: Your photo gallery is very good. I'm surprised at the good quality and control of the shots you got from the equipment used (i.e.: not a $2kUSD Nikon). Skillfully done.

Re:It's a drug baby ...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Well, easly Schedule V if I had to place it in one, IMHO, because even though it is quite habit forming, it's still relativly harmless. IE, you can't get that high off caffeine, and even when you are are, it doesn't pose that much of a risk to yourself or others (ignoring taking a huge overdose etc). It's also a dependancy that doesn't seem to get out of control like heroin or crack can. You don't tend to keep needing more because of your body building up a huge tollerance.

And yeah, if it was discovered yesterday, it probably would be illegal (atlest in the US). Then again. But I doubt anyone would stand for it, if it were to be make illegal now...To many people in the .gov are already addicts! ;)

Of course, I believe that most drugs should be legal, but with an age limit. It just makes dealing with any drug problem or addiction so much easier.

Thanks for the compliment on my photos. For the cheaper camera, I usualy needed to edit them in photoshop quite a bit to compensate for the lack of exposure control etc.

caffeine is not addictive

[tazan]

Joseph DeRupo, a spokesman for the National Coffee Association, said the average American coffee drinker consumes 3.4 cups a day. DeRupo said the scientific evidence is that caffeine is not an addictive substance, however. Altering the coffee-drinking routine is what produces problems, researchers found.

It's nice to see the tobacco guys have found new jobs.

Peral Jam

[sebol]

There are Control group for this kind of addiction called "Pearl Jam"

Take a look at their activity

Re:Peral Jam

[Dogtanian]

Pearl Jam? WTF have they got to do with it?!

For what it's worth, I've heard of them; my brother used to have a lot of their stuff. But I don't remember anything about them never having eaten since birth...

My Caffeine Addiction story

[defile]

Doctors told my parents never to give me soda since they thought it caused nervous ticks. One day I started having my own money and bought my own soda and, while it had no change on my ticks, I sure did become addicted.

Most people don't recognize the symptoms of caffeine addiction. Saturdays for me were characterized by splitting headaches because, after years of suffering, I realized that by noon on most mornings, I had had a large cup of coffee and a can or two of soda. Since I was sleeping in on Saturdays, by four or five o'clock my withdrawal symptoms would kick in and I'd be in agony.

I've broken my caffeine addiction on two occasions. Both times were unpleasant, I spent the first day tired with an agonizing headache, and had a mild headache that wouldn't go away for at least a week or so.

Caffeine is so prevalent in the American Lifestyle that it's hard for me to stay caffeine free for long. Once you've been a hard core caffeine junky, it's extremely easy to rekindle your dependency. I'd go months without caffeine, and even if I took one or two doses of it at a party, I'd redevelop withdrawal symptoms. Inevitably, caffeine would find itself back in my regular diet.

My caffeine intake always starts out modestly at one or two cups/cans a day, and gradually grows into a ridiculous 10 or 12 cups. At that point, even the slightest schedule changes are enough to trigger withdrawal symptoms. At this point I'd usually bite the bullet and quit it cold turkey.

Caffeine products definitely have their pleasant aspects, but make no doubt about it, it's a drug, has negative aspects (moreso for some people, I'm sure), and is pretty hard to avoid in the 21st century.

Hear Hear

[Mister Liberty]

Hear Hear

um

[Anonymous Coward]

i dont think anyone else brought this up, as far as i could tell.

i believe that the original text of the narcotics act back in the seventies was so general about addictive, mind altering narcotics (or whatever) that sugar fell into the "illegal" group. i'm not certain whether or not the studies existed at the time to say the same about caffeine, or if caffeine existed at the time in such a concentrated form.

just something to think about.

Oh no...

[innodonni]

Does this explain why I'm really grumpy if I don't have my extra strong coffee with five and a half sugars, or my 500mls of coke at lunch? Will I be locked in a mental institution?

In the news....

[thewiz]

coffee is really addictive
sugar is sweet.

And....
Water is wet.
Grass is green.
Concrete is hard.
Some postings on Slashdot are inane.

a gross simplification

[zedpol]

THis is a whole subject in itself but let me break it down real quick.

Sugar is a huge problem for a couple of reasons, carbohydrates(sugar) cause increased insulin release more so than other energy forms (protiens and lipids), espcially in the form of simple sugars. Your body absorbs those very easily so you get a huge spike in your blood glucose concentrations which your stimulates your pancreatic beta cells to unload insulin. The problem with lots of insulin release is it causes the storage of energy, carbohydrates can be shunted into fatty acid synthesis. So a high sugar meal ends up causing the release of lots of insulin which puts your body into the store energy mode--->fat. A diet in complex carbohydrates takes a while to break down so in essence you have a sustained release of carbohydrates which doesn't cause such a huge spike in insulin so you don't as much energy storage. Protiens and Fat for the most part don't really stimulate insulin. So yes, sugar is a BIG problem with obesity in america, but so are sedentary life styles, and people eating like complete shit.

Peace

p.s. i made some simplifications in the interest of time, but if someone wants a more complete overview of insulin's actions, carbohydrate, protien, and lipid metabolism i suggest checking out this very fine medical biochemistry site, http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/home.html . It was a great help in my biochem classes.

Re:a gross simplification

[King_TJ]

Ok, I have no argument with your statement.... but I don't think it really changes my original one either.

What I mean is, yes, the body may absorb sugars more quickly and attempt to store more of it due to the insulin release, but this is all a "technicality", ultimately. If a person ingests no more calories than they burn up, they're not going to have this spare energy for the body to store up as fat anyway.

It still comes back to my rather simple point... Obesity is due to taking in too many calories, compared to the number of calories used.

Arguments about sugar in foods leading to other problems like diabetes are another issue completely.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that variety and moderation are the key. I'm not a fan of Atkins or any other "diet" that restricts the types of foods you eat in favor of eating excesses of others. New studies are starting to show that Atkin's *is* effective for about a 6-8 month period of time, and then the weight loss stops. Eventually, long-term Atkins followers start complaining of symptoms such as aching joints, indicating their diet has depleted their body of some necessary vitamins or minerals....

Woah

[Anonymous Coward]

The Sun DOES NOT RISE IN THE EAST!!! The Earth rotates so as to give the appearance the sun 'rises' in the East. Also, do bears who live in zoos actually shit in the woods? More importantly, if the Pope shits in the woods, does anyone hear it?

Time to destroy the coffee companies...

[vijayiyer]

It's only a matter of time now, that the coffee companies are targeted by lawsuits and the DAs around the country, just like tobacco has been witchhunted for the last 20 years. Maybe the woman who sued McDonalds because the coffee was hot can now sue the coffee company because it drove her to buying it in the first place. When will people start taking responsibility for their actions?

Don't take my latte

[modernbob]

I drink a triple latte once or twice a day. I guess I better check in the betty ford clinic huh? Perhaps my Espresso machine can be classified as drug Paraphernalia. I guess I should start collecting SSI because of my addiction. At what point did we turn into a nation of jellyfish!

Re: -10 insight-less!

[drinkypoo]

Sugar is a serious part of the obesity problem in America. It's not the whole thing - our eating habits are the real problem. Regardless, sugar is a carbohydrate and when your body is functioning "normally" your body will store unused carbohydrates as fat, barring those which are expelled from the body as waste.

Put simply, most americans have been relegated to eating prepackaged foods. Who makes their own spaghetti sauce any more, for example? I know several of you out there are jumping up and down in your chair saying "me! me! ima post and tell this fucker off!" but the fact is that you are statistically insignificant. But spaghetti sauce is loaded with excess sugar and so is just about everything else we eat. Even hot dogs tend to have a ton of sugar added to them - someone please explain to me why little fine-ground sausages need sugar.

Well, actually, don't explain it, because I know the answer: they don't need sugar but focus groups, taste tests, and other forms of research have shown that we like to eat food with sugar added to it. So, the food industry in America (and other places) adds a grip of sugar to just about everything, including many foods that ordinarily wouldn't contain any.

In short, everything you eat is sugary unless you make it yourself. This IS a serious problem and it IS totally unnecessary.

The problem really goes beyond sugar though, which after all is just a carbohydrate. No matter how you feel about no- or low-carb diets like atkins (which is just a new name on an old diet, which can be referred to as a low-carb modified fast) the fact is that we eat too many carbohydrates. As early as the 1700s you can find literary examples with people making observations that people who eat a lot of starch are fatter on average than people who eat a lot of meat. You can find carbohydrate-based fillers in just about everything on the store shelves; anything that doesn't have carb-based fillers is probably primarily a carbohydrate to begin with, like bread. The USDA food pyramid, promoted by the NIH after several billion dollars were spent trying to prove that eating fat makes you fat and failing, yet promoted on the "strength" of a study which showed that taking drugs to reduce your cholesterol decreased your risk of heart disease, suggests that we eat more carbohydrates than anything else. This is not only totally unnecessary (your body can quite efficiently derive energy from fats, it just doesn't do it as quickly) but completely ridiculous and utterly unfounded.

I don't know how you got a +4, Insightful for saying that sugar isn't a big problem, because it is. It's only a part of the problem, but the aggressive promotion of sugar-laden foods in the US is a big part of why we're fat. C&H sugar will happily tell you via a message printed on the packaging that SUGAR CONTAINS NO FAT. Well, whoop-de-do, it still makes you fat.

Come down off your high horse, which is headed in the wrong direction anyway, and join the parade.

Controlled Addiction.

[venomkid]

I use caffeine. I am addicted.

However I control my addiction by controlling my intake. I'll go cold turkey every once in a while to bring my quantity needs back down, especially after a long project.

I've stayed at two good sized mugs of coffee a day for years now. I've never climbed up to a pot a day.

Sure, I get a headache every once in a while, but by far the extra brain power and awareness is worth it.

New news!

[Anonymous Coward]

This just in! Water may be wet and night may be caused by darkness.

Food is Addictive.

[Fantastic Lad]

Just try stopping, you sinful users!

But seriously. . .

Yeah. Coffee is addictive. Everybody knows this!

It is useful to have verified what the withdrawl symptoms are and how they kick in. Pretty much lines up with my experiences.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again; Coffee is a great drug!

It increases and sharpens awareness without affecting judgement.

Typically, I like to use it for a few weeks at a time, and then drop it from my diet for another couple of weeks until my system is clear. Then I know it's standing by in the wings for when I'm going to need to be sharp-minded and productive again. Two to Nine days to clear the system? Man, I can (and do) that by accident.

A greasy slab of pizza can have longer lasting negative effects. --And no positive ones.

-FL

Stopped coffee

[MemoryDragon]

I drank 2-3 cups of coffee per day. Stopped it a while ago. The effects and the weekly withdrawal was too strong.

The problem I had with coffee was that if I drank a little bit it gave me a huge energy boost in the short term. But too much of it gave me a some kind of "feeling high" condition (I was not the only one, a friend of mine had the same symptoms)

And on friday I basically stopped drinking coffee and on saturday I was worn out the whole weekend until sunday afternoon, which I probably think is some kind of withdrawal. Add to that that I have suffered from anxiety disorder since I was a child which probably increased the effects big time.

Nowadays I only drink coffee like very other drug (alcohol for instance) occasionally for social purposes.

still no cure for cancer...

[Anonymous Coward]

*grumble*

...On the other end

[MarcQuadra]

On the other end of the spectrum, there's me.

I drink four cups of strong coffee to wake up. I have about an hour from when I wake until I need that caffiene. Without it I get HORRIBLE headaches, cannot concentrate, lose a lot of motor function, clench my jaw, don't have any appetite, and my sinuses get blocked. All can be 'fixed' in fifteen minutes by a cup of coffee.

Half way through the day, at about noon, I start wanting more coffee. Soda can do the trick, but I can't realistically drink sixty ounces of soda without burning my teeth out. I leave work and hit the local coffee shop, where they know exactly what I want. If I don't do this, I am apt to completely forget what I'm doing at work and waste the rest of the day wandering around trying to remember what the hell I was supposed to be doing.

I did start two weeks ago to cut my consumption. I've been drinking about five to ten cups a day since I was in sixth grade (when the ritalin wore out, I'd drink coffee). Now I'm down to about four cups. So far today it's been three, and the last one I might sub some tea.

I fear hospitalization, because there's NO WAY I can heal without a caffiene drip. Recovery from trauma is no time to recover from severe addiction. I have written on my 'just-in-case' card to give me a 20mg/hour drip of caffiene if I am unconscious.

Re:...On the other end

[Old Telco Guy]

I can tell you from experience, then - don't ever try tobacco in any form. Tobacco addiction has been described by heroin addicts as worse than heroin addiction, and it is waaaaay worse than caffeine addiction. Coffee and cigarettes together would impact you so strongly that you'd give neither of them up before you died (young and diseased).

Re:...On the other end

[MarcQuadra]

Ahh. Too late. I'm down to about three cigarettes a day now, which is the absolute minimum I can do without quitting totally. I plan to quit when I get a long enough contiguous vacation from work to get over the initial hump of withdrawl.

I quit for a year about two years ago, it was horrible for months. I was jittery and sore for about four months. I don't recall exactly how I got started again, but I know alcohol was involved.

I guess I'm one of those easily-addicted people. I used to take a lot of speed when I was a teenager, which I gave up after I got my career started.

Alcohol is another story, I overdid it when I was young and had to stop drinking altogether at 17. I slowly eased myself back into normal levels of drinking, of being able to limit and control it after I turned 20. It's not worth it to get totally smashed these days, I feel it so much more in the morning than when I was 15.

Once I accidentally took heroin, not mainlined obviously. I still get all teary-eyed when I think back to what that was like. I was laying on the beach under the sun and it felt like heaven, like it was day and night and summer and winter all at once. The guy I was with always talks about getting more, and I've physically hit him when he's gotten too excited about it. I remember hearing in the way back of my mind the P.A. system on the beach saying that "the beach was closing in 30 minutes... 15... 5... closed. The beach patrol is coming." time just passed so... magically. Feling apathy like that, not even being able to care if you wanted to, is why I know I can never do that again.

Re:...On the other end

[Anonymous Coward]

Very interesting perspectives you have there. Thanks for posting.

At least they offer real milk

[Civil_Disobedient]

Sorry to hear about your plight, but it could be worse...

I live in "God's Country" (place your finger in the middle of the U.S. -- that's about where I am) and I have the opposite problem -- nobody has cream here.

Now, I started drinking coffee in the Italian area of Boston. I can't stand not having cream in my coffee. And out here, I'm literally surrounded by cows, but everyone insists on putting this "Creamer" stuff in their coffee. Creamer can be left open, in a warm room, for months and not go bad. It's simply not from this earth.

These fat slobs (some of the fattest in the nation!) would super-size their ASPIRIN if they had the chance, but "oh no, cream is too filling!" Gah!

And naturally nobody has ever heard of SUGAR. No, it's all artificial, carcinogenic "sweeteners". Most of the people just drink Foldgers instant-coffee, anyway. Mixed to half-strength.

If you're ever in the Mid-West, just remember that "coffee" means "slightly brown-tinted water with artifical sweeteners and fake milk."

Re:At least they offer real milk

[Compuser]

You must have been in the Midwest too long. I hate
all the folks around me say "Gah" when they want to
express frustration. Never heard it in NY.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[DreamerFi]

artificial, carcinogenic "sweeteners".

Forget carcinogenic - aspartaam is a neurotoxin. Check google. If you're too sensitive for it (like I am) it will literally drive you crazy. I'm avoiding anything with "Lite" on it like the plague.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[mrscorpio]

Amen brother, Iowa representin' here. However, if you go to a coffee shop in a college town, you can get good stuff. Bless Iowa City, the best city of its size in the Midwest. Just ignore the blatant football worship, and you're ok.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[Civil_Disobedient]

Bless Iowa City, the best city of its size in the Midwest.

That's amazing -- when I drove from Boston to Nebraska, I stopped in Iowa City and there actually was one decent coffee place in town that everyone recommended. It was the only good coffee on the entire trip.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[Civil_Disobedient]

aspartaam is a neurotoxin

Damn! I was wondering why I always get headaches when I mistakingly drink Diet Coke.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[G-funk]

Question - do Americans really put cream in their coffee, or do they just call milk creme if it's going into coffee?

Re:At least they offer real milk

[fiftyfly]

I'm couldn't say for sure but a little north of the yanks pretty much _anything_ white or beigish put into coffee is labeled 'cream'. be it powdered, dairy, nondairy or highly flavoured mystery sauce. Typically, though, dairy products sold expressly for coffee (think single serving plastic jobbies) contain ~ 10% MF.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[Josh Booth]

At least on the east coast, we put either half and half or milk into coffee. Every restaurant I've been to provides half and half but in a residence, milk is often used since it is so useful for regular drinking and milk and cereal. It also cools the coffee faster since you need more for the same amount of creamyness. But if you are going to put a dairy product in your coffee, usually they mean the same thing, with half and half being preferred either way. But that's just my take. I'm from central (Trenton area) New Jersey for reference.

Oh, and artifical creamers are "creamers", so as not to be confused with the real thing.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[jtev]

Actual cream can be hard to find, Half and Half or whipping cream (has sugar in it) can be found, and used for whatever. I'm not sure what all we do with our cream, but I think it mostly goes to butter and whiped cream. Mabye butter cream cake to.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[DreamerFi]

Damn! I was wondering why I always get headaches when I mistakingly drink Diet Coke.

I assume you're joking. Aspartaam, like most neurotoxins, and like most anti-depressant medicine (such as citalopram, work very slowly. It takes weeks to take hold. It took me six months after stopping with Diet Coke to get back to normal.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[Civil_Disobedient]

do Americans really put cream in their coffee

Some of us do, if we can find it. Usually most places carry a half-cream, half-milk concoction called Half-and-Half.

Personally, I use Light Cream (called "Table Cream" in the Great Plains). This is a less-heavy version of Heavy Cream (also called "Whipping Cream").

And what's with the italics? Are you trying to insinuate that cream in coffee is gross or something? How about this:

Do Europeans really put milk in their tea?

Re:At least they offer real milk

[pnot]

> Do Europeans really put milk in their tea?

No, AFAIK it's pretty much just a British phenomenon. And even most Brits would baulk at putting milk in, say, green tea, earl grey, or lapsang souchong.

Re:At least they offer real milk

[TheLoneCabbage]

Look, I agree SuperSizeMe was a great movie. It made allot of good points. But Americans are already freaking out over their weight, and Europeans are catching up FAST (or did you miss that bit of the movie, it was in the begining while y'all were putting mayonaise on your fries).

One thing I think SSM didn't put enough emphasis on was exercise. Most any diet under 3000 calories a day can be negated by being resonably fit.

The amount of callories that would come from putting even heavy cream in your coffee, is negligable. Probably no worse than your average, non-diet, salad dressing. Besides how many cups a day can a person drink, with only a few table spoons of cream per it's not that bad?

I say get 1hr or so of activity and eat what you like (within reason of course).

I once experimented on myself.

[holderofthering]

I was a caffine freak, and i knew it. My friends knew it, my teachers new it. It wasn't normal to sweat durring the winter, but it happened :p

so i tried an experiment, no caffine for a month. Heh, good times. At first i was having alot of trouble staying awake, without my 11 in the mornning coke, i would fall asleep durring math.

But i gave it some time, toughed it out, and pulled off the month. It changed my system. I could sit down in a chair, and talk to someone without screaming. I didn't even relize these effects untill i was off the wagon.

I'm very pleased i tried to get off it, (even though im back on it), mainly becuase it led me to try a no sugar month, and finaly, the healthy month. Overall my body loves me now. AND IF YOU FALLOW MY PLAN IT WILL WORK FOR YOU TOO!!!!1111 JUST SEND ONE DOLLER TOO 473 Bran ~background shuffling~

~post cut off by healthy overlord~

Nifty Caffeine Hack

[Twisted Grind]

Here's a nice little hack you can use to spice up your sleep!

Right before going to sleep at night, take one or two caffeine pills. It's necessary you use pills, because the taste of familiar caffinated drinks and/or the sugars in these drinks will cause an immediate "peppy" reaction. The trick to this hack is to fall asleep before the chemicals kick in. Caffeine takes about 30-60 minutes to take effect depending on the person, so you want to be in a situation where you can fall as quickly as possible.

If you do this correctly, what'll end up happening is that the caffeine will cause a state of hyperactivity while you're still asleep! What ends up occuring is an extremely deep, relaxing sleep, while producing intensly vivid dreams. Try it!

Re:Nifty Caffeine Hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course you'll be just dreaming faster. This is nothing new, most users know and like that. Did you know how to tell a beginner and a pro apart? The pro drinks a cup of coffee before going to bed. You even fall to sleep faster than without.

Happen to see Coffee and Cigarettes in your favorite art-film cinema lately? If not, go for it. IIRC it's the part with Tom Waits and Iggy Pop where this is discussed in great detail, just at the beginning. (Great movie anyway).

Re:Nifty Caffeine Hack

[shfted!]

Yeah, this is actually quite fun. Nothing like popping 400 or 500 mg of caffeine right before bed. I, however, don't get a nice night's sleep from this, but I'm absolutely loaded with energy when I wake up. The dreams are definitely vivid though!

Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[Civil_Disobedient]

Please don't get me wrong by the title of my post. You had a lot of good things to say, particularly about the unnecessary addition of sugar in foods where sugar has no place being in the first place.

But sugar and "carbs" are not the problem. The lack of exercise it the problem. Our entire society is structured in such a way as to make regular, daily exercise impossible. Perfect example: the suburbs. Ever notice why people in cities are generally thinner than people out in the 'burbs? Because they WALK MORE. Argh.

No matter how you feel about no- or low-carb diets like atkins (which is just a new name on an old diet, which can be referred to as a low-carb modified fast) the fact is that we eat too many carbohydrates.

Ok, then. Can you please explain something to me. It's just something that's been bothering me about all these Atkins ditto-heads.

Ok, here goes. You ready?

Asian People.

Ever been to Asia? Because there aren't a lot of fat people there. It's actually amazing! A place where the PRIMARY FOOD SOURCE is RICE, (a carbohydrate!) and yet there is no epidemic of obesity like there is in the States.

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[drinkypoo]

My suspicion is that they simply eat a lot less than we do. If you take in less calories than you burn, you won't get fat no matter what you eat. The best solution is to monitor your intake and just not eat so much, but since most people in this world like to eat, the next-best solution is to eat foods that won't make you fat no matter how much you eat. Since the non-food foods (like olestra) haven't been working out so well that basically leaves atkins. Or, going against your upbringing and just not eating so much. However, I don't seem to have been able to do that one :)

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[dylain]

Rice isn't the "primary food source" in Asia. Have you forgot all the very nutritious vegetables the Asians eat (which Dr. Atkins also stresses)? That alone could explain their health!

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[The One and Only]

A couple ideas:

1. Genetics: I haven't seen very many fat Asian-Americans either.
2. Rice isn't as important as you think. It's a staple of Asian meals, but they don't eat a big plate of rice and a little bit of meat and vegetables on the side. Rice is always there, but it's not the primary component of the meal. You're always eating plenty of meats and vegetables to go along with it.
3. Portions. Perhaps they just eat ridiculously low portion sizes that would leave the average 200 pound American (that's me) craving an actual meal afterwards.

As for the lack of exercise, maybe we should adjust our eating habits to our lifestyle, instead of adjusting our lifestyle to our eating habits. Instead of randomly physically exerting ourselves from time to time like the Exercise Nazis would have us do, maybe we need to find a way to eat so that we can get by on our current activity levels.

And maybe Atkins is the way to do that. I don't know for sure, myself. But athletes eat carbs. They eat a LOT of carbs. That's because athletes are in a constant state of physical exertion. Most of us aren't in a constant state of physical exertion. The high-carb orthodoxy tries to make us eat like athletes, and then exercise as much as athletes, therefore (in their estimation) making us as healthy as athletes. That sort of thing would work if we abandoned the past couple centuries of technological innovation and worked in the fields. But people have to work for a living in the 21st century, and when they work, for the most part, they aren't physically exerting themselves. There goes the time we'd set aside for exercise.

That said, I'm not against exercise, but exercise for the sake of weight control (unless you're consciously trying to *lose* excess weight) shouldn't have to be an essential part of our lives. Exercise because it feels good, because you enjoy martial arts or something, or because you want to attract women. Don't exercise because your diet requires you to.

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[Civil_Disobedient]

Genetics: I haven't seen very many fat Asian-Americans either.

I don't think genetics is an issue here. Obesity levels in Asia are growing in proportion to the level of western (specifically, American) influence. So while there isn't an epidemic of obesity in China, there is a growing problem in Japan.

Obesity is on the rise in Japan as they have been adopting more "American" eating habits. In conjunction with weight, there has been a dramatic increase in diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Extremely dramatic. This isn't because the genetic structure of Japanese people has changed in the last 20 years.

You're always eating plenty of meats and vegetables to go along with it.

That's true. Unfortunately, even reasonably sane portions of rice that an average meal might contain would be a big no-no in the Atkins plan.

As for the lack of exercise, maybe we should adjust our eating habits to our lifestyle, instead of adjusting our lifestyle to our eating habits.

Well, we really should be attacking it from both ends, don't you think? Our lifestyle has changed dramatically over the past hundred years -- we walk less, sit for far longer periods of time -- but our bodies haven't changed substantially. While you're right in saying that there's no need for 3500 calorie diets when all you do is drive and sit all day, there is still a fundemental requirement of movement if you expect your body to be reasonably fit.

If I did nothing all day, but ate properly, my muscles would still atrophie. The human body needs a modicum of exertion just to maintain homeostasis. When the most exercise you get in your day is when you're brushing your teeth, you're going to have problems.

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[KoolyM]

. Rice isn't as important as you think. It's a staple of Asian meals, but they don't eat a big plate of rice and a little bit of meat and vegetables on the side. Rice is always there, but it's not the primary component of the meal. You're always eating plenty of meats and vegetables to go along with it

Wrong. The average asian meal does indeed consist of as much rice as you're going to get, and then some highly flavored side dishes thrown in to give it some taste. The other points you make are quite valid, btw, but I just couldn't let this one slide ;-)

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[FunkyChild]

Exercise because it feels good, because you enjoy martial arts or something, or because you want to attract women. Don't exercise because your diet requires you to.
Or exercise because it's necessary if you want to be healthy. Losing weight is more of a side effect of this, rather than an end in itself. Like it or not, even though in the last 100-200 years or so our lifestyle has significantly changed from the hunter-gatherers of the past, our bodies evolved that way, and it's going to take a long time for them to evolve to something that doesn't need the same amount of exercise to stay healthy.

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[drinkypoo]

Interestingly, diabetes in children was almost unknown in America until the "food pyramid" came along and everyone started eating low-fat without cutting their caloric intake, in general meaning they started eating more carbs.

The Atkins plan says you should limit yourself to 25g of carbs per day in the induction phase; after the first couple weeks you keep it below 50g until you approach your target weight, then you add carbs in far enough to stay in ketosis. However, there is no need to stay on the Atkins plan forever unless you're using it to control seizures, something it's been used for literally for decades.

The most valuable information related to Atkins, or I should say low-carb diets, is that carbo loading is stupid unless you are an athlete and you're going to go out and burn it all off, and that carbohydrates are what make most people fat. The worst thing you can do, however, is eat one dish which contains a big mixture of both, because if you're not in ketosis, you WILL store fat as fat, unlike what happens on the Atkins diet. Hence, french fries are essentially the worst thing you can eat, followed closely by mashed potatoes with butter, gravy, and sour cream :) The moral is moderation, and the Atkins diet doesn't say you should eat no carbohydrates for the rest of your life.

Anyway white rice is fucking awful for you. It's like drinking an equivalent weight of sugarwater with the same ratio of carbs to water. You should be eating brown rice if you eat rice, and as little of it as possible. Brown rice takes longer to break down in your system and doesn't cause as large an insulin release at once. Studies may indicate (I don't have citations for this so I have to be vague) that calling on your pancreas to work extra-hard on an irregular basis may cause diabetes. As the rise of diabetes in America corresponds to the rise of carbohydrate intake more or less, this is a pretty reasonable conclusion to draw. Avoid that kind of stuff as much as you can. Focus on lean meats. You can get your energy from fat or from carbs but unless you're in ketosis you have to count every calorie. You have to watch what you eat whether you're on Atkins or not, and people don't generally do that. They just eat whatever's convenient and tastes good, and I am no exception. When I was on Atkins I lost about 130 pounds and I plan to do it again soon... I fixed my propane BBQ :)

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[Civil_Disobedient]

Anyway white rice is fucking awful for you

Again, it is a staple in Asian diets. Not brown rice, either. And I don't think it's simply a matter of smaller portions or genetics -- when I lived in Asia I didn't notice the portions being significantly smaller than what I eat now. Why wouldn't we see a large amount of diabetes sufferers in the Asian population if white rice was so bad for the human body?

I fixed my propane BBQ

Mmmmm... ribs. You do know that meats wreak havoc on your digestive system, and in large quantities contribute to heart disease (though eating lean meats, as you mention, can avoid this), diabetes and gout.

So you know, I'm a carnivore and always will be. But let's not kid ourselves: if you just ate soy, vegetables and fruits for the rest of your life, you'd probably be much healthier overall (but a lot more miserable).

Re:Sigh.... Another Atkins Cultist

[drinkypoo]

sorry, I don't buy the heart disease thing. eating meats with a carbo-bomb is what does that. some recent research shows that consuming fat raises both diglyceride AND triglyceride levels and it ends up as a wash. gout is an issue though, you can't eat just meat, you need fiber.

also a study at U of Hawaii suggests that the plant hormones in soy which are substantially similar to estrogen may cause problems with memory in men, contributing to the onset of alzheimer's disease.

Eating a balanced diet, the contents of which are up for debate, is probably the answer.

I still think that asians don't eat as much (typically) and don't eat as much fat as we do. your typical unamericanized asian food isn't all that fatty. the real problems come when you mix fat and carbs.

Weight Loss is a Black Art

[Tablizer]

The bottom line is that nobody really knows what the key causes of obesity are. I can point out countries or cultures that eat too much of anything you can name as the culprit, and they are usually skinnier than Americans.

The actual science on obsesity is rather sparse, leaving room for pet theories and urban legends. The bottom line (pun intended) is that nobody really knows. Lack of excercise and desk jobs contribute to the problem, but beyond that there is little agreement.

Re: -10 insight-less!

[Old Telco Guy]

If you consume more calories than you use, you gain weight. It's really that simple.

This presumes that the body is a perfect translator of calories into energy.

If you reduce the ability of your body to effectively translate calories into energy, then variance in consumption has little effect on energy output.

Like a car with a carburetor turned way too rich, it consumes scads of fuel but doesn't produce much energy output.

For years, mankind only saw the connection between the gas pedal and the engine. Now we see the connection between the gas pedal and the carburetor and the engine.

This is what low-carbohydrate diets do.

Osama plan

[Tablizer]

If I were a bad evil guy like Osoma, rather than attack buildings and airports, I would attack coffee processing facilities. Without coffee the US economy would shift into sluggishness. Coffee allows people to stay awake through boring work and insipid PHB meetings. Coffee feuls the economy more so than gasoline. Coffee is the only known semi-anecdote to the Dilbert World, and without it we would all either go insane or go to sleep. It can be likened to the pills in 70's sci-fi films that kept the population from revolting against the overseers.

Ahhhhhhhhhh

[t_allardyce]

Oh shit, that described me to a tee. I sometimes get headaches and a coffee gets rid of them! I only drink 1 or 2 a day but occaisionally upto 4 or 5. But then there are times when i feel like a boost so i grab the big 4-person coffee pot and stuff it! Im just glad im so obsessed with making it right, i like to grind it on the spot and run the pot through empty to clean it every time which means i offen just can't be bothered to make a coffee, good thing i cant drink instant or i'd be OD'd by now! Oh fuck, thank you very much slashdot, now i need another!

They can have my Double Shot Red-Eye....

[Anonymous Coward]

...when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!
So what's wrong with 2 pots a day?

Also...

[taggat]

I hear it's produced in a colossal worm hiney!

Re: stuff that can be left out for months

[Anonymous Coward]

> Creamer can be left open, in a warm room, for months and not go bad. It's simply not from this earth.

Wow. I guess you also think that *real* butter is not from this earth? (note: real butter can be left open in a warm room for months and not go bad -- unless you're careless and leave bread crumbs in it from your butter knife.)

Re: -10 insight-less!

[drawfour]

There's an interesting thing about obesity and caffeine. Caffeine is a diruetic. Which means you piss out a lot of water. Unless you drink plenty of water to counter this, you become dehydrated.

I forget the exact numbers of the study (nor do I have a link, so take this for what it's worth), but the article I read said three things:

1. A huge number of people in America (around 75%, I think) are chronically dehydrated. I figure it's because most people don't drink water _and_ they drink lots of caffeinated beverages.
2. Quite often, the body confuses dehydration with hunger.
3. A huge number (around 90%, if memory serves me correctly) of hunger pangs in the middle of the night (aka midnight snacks) go away if the person drinks a glass of water instead of eating.

So what I get from this is that the less water (and more caffeine) people drink, the more likely they are to gain weight because of eating food they don't need. I'm definitely guilty of drinking a lot of caffeine, but I try to drink a lot of water. I've found that most of my headaches are not because I missed a morning coffee (or Cherry Coke, in my case), but because I drink TOO MUCH caffeine, and become dehydrated.

they won't confiscate your latte

[mah!]

Well, since there is no coffee in latte (unless the cow is a serious coffee addict), you can safely keep drinking it...

Well, duh.

[lee n. field]

I can quit any time I want to, really.

If the federales try to make us decaffeinate coffee, they will have a real, live, hang-them-from-the-lamposts problem.

Study Women/Men

[thbigr]

...Can't wait for the study proving sugar is sweet.

Or a study showing women think differently then men.

How does addiction work?

[Daetrin]

Is it a process that acts differently in some people than others? I know some people are prone to alcoholism, is that just because they have an "addcitive personality" or can you have a metabolism that is resistant to certain drugs but susceptible to others?

I don't seem to get addicted to caffeine. I normally go through about two litres of (diet) pop a day. Somedays it's a 2L bottle of mountain dew, others it's a 2L bottle of diet coke. But some days it's root beer or that orange drink or something else. I don't seem to suffer from any kind of withdrawl symptoms on the off days.

For awhile when i was working near a Trader Joe's i'd get chocolate covered espresso beans every cuple of months and go through them in a week or two. I'd be a little hyper and jittery for that week or two, but when i ran out i just continued on without noticing any headaches or grumpiness.

So am i just fooling myself somehow, or can it be addictive for some people and not for others?

Re:How does addiction work?

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh I noticed caffeine withdrawal but it didn't set in right away. I found if I hadn't had a caffeinated drink for about 2 days that I would end up getting a headache and some flu like symptoms that would magically subside after grabbing a 64 ounce coke. The headache symptoms lasted about a day and then after that followed a long period of real laziness that I couldn't explain except to say I didn't feel like doing much of anything. As soon as that period wore off I felt fine again. I didn't really realize it was withdrawal until I noted that this only happened after I had started up the caffeine drinking. I usually end up on cycles of drinking caffeine and then not(usually only drinking it if no other suitable non caffeinated drink exists). I'd stopped drinknig caffeine before and noticed all kinds of problems I had getting stuff done went away. Caffeine withdrawal does exist, but its effects are not immediately obvious. If you do stop drinking caffeine for awhile and you have indeed been drinking two liters a day for a long time then yes you will have withdrawal symptoms. I don't think caffeine is addictive for me however as I don't find myself searching for a fix all the time, but I have felt the withdrawal symptoms as described.

omfg

[Cynikal]

and in other news scientists discover water is wet... still no cure for cancer.

Addiction has such a negative connotation...

[Provocateur]

...why don't we all just say, It's habit-forming?

Are you all with me? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

This just in...

[kid_wonder]

Fast food is fattening.

Seriously? Did this really require a post?

NEWS FLASH!!!

[TheLittleJetson]

Fresh off the presses: Habbit-forming stimulant is indeed addictive!

Seriously, is this news to anyone? I learned this in 8th grade health class!

I learned the hard way....

[dethl]

I drank way too much coffee a couple years ago. That and mixed with not getting enough sleep put me into a panic attack. It sucked.

pocky

[period3]

Has anybody done a similar study on Pocky?

Re:Science: Sun rises in the east

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the Pope still Catholic?

And this makes the news? Think a step further

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, everyone drinking coffee or coke on a daily basis knows that. "I'm of no use 'till I've had my first coffee/coke in the morning" is almost trivia.

Now, the sad fact is that also drugs like THC (marijuana), Heroin or low-dosed Cocaine are not much different. The difference is the fact that coffee is legally sold and consumed and others are not. But in Turkey drinking coffee was punished with a dead sentence until 1633, in Germany until 1768 (didn't help at all and the authorities then were clever enough to legalize and tax it instead of criminalize their people).

Put people in prison today for drinking coffee and you will fill the prisons and make coffee-users criminals who will rob and kill for their drug of choice. The War on Drugs is a War on People and you just won't see this as long as you're using a drug which is no better and no worse than other drugs just because it is a legal drug.

[Posted anonymously to protect the innocent, don't want to end up on a watch-list [shame on those [sorry for all these brackets]]]

common sence

[Anonymous Coward]

take your foot off the break then press on the gas or if you are in a hurry to get to the next stop light then don't press on the break but press on the gas pedal. now, before you do all of this what you need to do is go have a beer, jump in your car, go find a pig & breathe on them.

I Don't Have a Problem with Coffee

[Greyfox]

I can quit anytime I want. No, really!

I did actually kick the habit for several months a while back. The first two weeks are murder (headaches, can't keep your eyes open in the afternoon, etc) but once you get done with withdrawl it's pretty nice. Then one day I needed to stay up late for something and I was back on. I stopped smoking far easier than stopping caffiene.

Some mental health professional I talked to a while back told me that one of the best signs of caffiene addiction that he's seen was Mountain Dew consumpsion. At the time I was drinking a fair bit of that stuff, and I was a bit startled that a lot of people in late night jobs also did. I stopped drinking soft drinks shortly thereafter. I want my daily caffiene quota to come from nice, wholesome coffee! (Heh heh heh)

If you're watching your intake, Excedrin and BC Headache Powder both contain caffiene, by the way. Make sure you check the active ingredients on the stuff you're using take the edge off those caffiene-withdrawl headaches. They make be taking the edge off very well due to having the stuff that you're trying to get away from.

so what else is new?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have read studies with similar results years ago. Can't really disagree with them, everytime I cut back on coffee comsumption I get a headache for a couple of days. Then, for a while, drinking coffee actually makes me feel refreshed instead of just not having a sore head.

Coffee is addictive...

[comrade009]

Soon they're gonna be telling us to stop pounding rusty nails into our eyes.

Oh, sorry.

[Civil_Disobedient]

I hate all the folks around me say "Gah" when they want to express frustration. Never heard it in NY.

Sorry, what I meant to say was, "Goddamn fuckin' mutha-fuckah's!"

And there goes my karma.

Re: -10 insight-less!

[ponos]

Seriously, sugar is hardly the problem with obesity in America. The problem is primarily one of poor eating habits, coupled with lack of exercise. (Not that anecdotes prove anything, but just to pull out one random example; I used to know a gal who was a strict vegetarian, and I *never* once saw her eat a piece of candy or "junk food" - yet she was overweight.)

It is certainly true that surplus caloric intake causes obesity, regardless of macronutrient source. However, all macronutrients are not processed in the same way. Sugar is a special case for the human body because it quickly increases blood glucose level (thereby triggering homeostatic mechanisms--insulin) and equally quickly disappears.

The net result is that, even though your empiric evidence may point to the contrary, research is still necessary in order to fully determine whether sugar consumption is linked to obesity. I could point you to some interesting articles, but the general idea in the relevant bibliography is that eating sugary foods does seem to predispose to obesity. And, to put it in a different light, sugar does not seem to offer anything useful (except in cases of hypoglycemic coma!) besides plain old calories, so you are better off eating more complex carbohydrates.

P.

coffee vs. warm milk

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember reading about an experiment done on some college kids. (at a dorm somewhere, i don't know)

Right before they went to bed, half were given a glass of warm milk, and half were given a cup of coffee. When asked the next morning about how well they slept, not surprisingly the milk group said they slept well, and the coffee group said they didn't get much sleep.

What was interesting about this study was that the coffee were drinking decaffeinated coffee, and the experimenters had added caffeine tablets to the warm milk.

I can't remember where i read this, (or if it's true), but that seems to imply a some of the effects of coffee drinking are purely psychological.

Caffeine Good

[sciop101]

Caffeine is for people that cannot handle altering reality with psychotropic chemicals.

You're not an addict!

[Kane Skalter]

Big Burly voice: I (insert degrading sexual act) for crack! People don't (insert degrading sexual act) for coffee! Did you ever (insert degrading sexual act) for caffeine?

/obligatory "Half-Baked" reference
//FARKer in disguise

Help me recall...

[miskatonic alumnus]

A couple years ago, I read a little story in a book or magazine (I wish I could recall) that went something like: Suppose some people discovered a plant that could be used to make an addictive beverage that caused sleep dysfunction, an elevated pulse, sweating, etc. This went on for about 5 paragraphs. It made it sound like this substance was some real nasty stuff. It was phrased in a way similar to fear-mongering anti-drug propaganda. Then came the punchline --- this horrible substance was (drum roll) coffee! The story was part of a larger collection/book advocating drug legalization (or decriminalization). If anyone has read this, please let me know the source. Danke.

CA Meeting Introduction

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hi, my name is bob, and I'm a coffaholic."

Ummmm...

[caswelmo]

Thank you Mr. Obvious!

A non-scientific observation

[Xybot]

Dear Slashdot Reader,
I've just stopped drinking coffee after being on about 10 cups a day freshly ground, and didn't really notice any effects/withdrawal symptoms at all.

I do however have trouble stopping smoking. I wonder if the same scientists have thought about an addiction study for tobacco, could be I'm doing myself more harm than good!

Oh Great!

[rspress]

I was worried I was becoming addicted to coffee. I guess I will have to stop and just keep the cigarettes, amphetamines and opiates.

Whole therapeutic field is a mess

[UpnAtom]

More disorders also means more money for the drug companies. Unlike counsellors, these companies hold extraordinarily influence over the US government, FDA & American Psychiatric Association (who write the DSM). They also lack any ethics that most therapists DO have. GlaxoSmithKline was recently found to been lying about Paxil's effectiveness whilst suppressing research showing that it actually harmed children.

Whilst I agree that most therapists are ineffective, the problem is that they never get punished for it. The most successful therapist I know is also the least effective and is in fact dangerous.

Alcoholism

[UpnAtom]

No gene causes alcoholism or depression. Nobody needs to drink but some people need help not to.

Most alcoholics feel pretty guilty about it and guess what they turn to when they feel bad?

Re:Alcoholism

[DigitalRaptor]

No gene causes alcoholism or depression.

Me, my family medical history, and most scientists in this field disagree with you.

Re: -10 insight-less!

[UpnAtom]

Regardless, sugar is a carbohydrate and when your body is functioning normally your body will store unused carbohydrates as fat, barring those which are expelled from the body as waste.

Wrong. When your body is functioning normally, it will increase your metabolism, probably make you hyperactive and thereby burn off the excess calories.

You are forgetting how most people's weight changes very little regardless of how much they eat.

well i guess i'm living proof against that study..

[Anonymous Coward]

i just gave up coffee last Friday. yep, just like that - Friday morning was my last cup. i usually have a cup of espresso every morning, have been for about the last 3-4 years. but i haven't had one since Friday, and i can say for certain that i'm not really craving a coffee right now, i'm certainly not feeling addicted or dependant on it.

although i did give it up because i'm using creatine now... and who knows, that may make up for the lack of caffine. anyways, i'm sure i'll have another coffe in a months time or so.

cheers all,

Mugget. (couldn't log in... :(

Addictive, but subtle

[jdmce2002]

It's not that coffee is addictive that is surprising. Rather, it's the suble quality of coffee's addictive reward that is the twist. How could someting so illusive be so powerful? That's what I find so fascinating. I recently have written on the subject at the above link.

The effects of Coffee

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but wonder if the effects of coffee on various people does not vary to a degree like quite a few other things. Case in point:

1. I used to start off every single day with a double latte. I would drink it during my morning commute...which lasts about 40 minutes.

2. Once at work, within a hour or two, I would then have a regular traditional cup of coffee. Perhaps two.

3. By 9 or 10 am, somebody at work would ask if I wanted to join in on a Starbucks run, so I would also have a grande mocha then.

Now I can tell you, that after this, I did in fact have a coffee buzz. But strangely, NOT always. There are days where the effects of the coffee were more intense than others. What that mysterious variable factor was, I have no idea.
I could repeat the same actions the next day and not have the same effects. Most likely some form of tolerance. But in a few weeks, I would have it again. I since gave up lattes because of all the sugar. Now I just drink straight coffee. I like it dark. No sugar. No milk. No nothing. Just coffee. Matter of fact, I dig on that strange Senseo coffee. Those freako coffee pod machines that look like the top of them melted. It's good stuff.

Further benefits of legalisation and taxing drugs

[UpnAtom]

Others have already pointed out that in addition to income from taxes, we'll save money on deterrence & jailing people.

We'll also be able to make supply safer and take away the $500+ billion a year that currently goes to organised crime syndicates.

Re: -10 insight-less!

[drinkypoo]

Wrong? Every word you quoted above is 100% true. Any carbohydrates not wasted (and pooped) or used, meaning converted to glucose and used for energy, will be stored as fat instead. This is the truth, regardless of metabolism, which only determines (or really, helps determine) how much of your carbohydrate intake is consumed.

When your body is functioning normally, it will convert any carbohydrates you don't burn into fat.

Granted, there are ways to increase your metabolic rate. You can exercise, and spread your meals out across the day so that you eat more often and your body is more constantly processing your food intake. You can introduce assorted stimulant compounds into your body, although that's typically dangerous. It doesn't change the fact that what you don't burn or waste turns into fat.

In related news....

[Door-opening Fascist]

The sky is blue, and grass is green. I've known caffeine is addictive since I started drinking it. It's not really news.

that is how psychiatry works

[Trepidity]

It's now considered "standard" to classify anything that could possibly be traced to a physiological cause as a "mental illness", and to prescribe medication to resolve the condition. Unable to concentrate for ridiculously long periods of time? You have ADHD, and here's some medication. Feel like you're in a rut and life sucks? You have clinical depression, and here's some medication. Have sexual interests that differ from the general population, like an interest in bondage or S&M? You suffer from a paraphilia, and here's some medication. Etc.

Not that there aren't legitimate mental disorders, but they're much less frequent than they're made out to be. If you meet someone who is actually schizophrenic, that is someone who is actually suffering from an illness. A lot of what's classified as "mental illnesses" though, are really "problems in living"---you're not living your life in the way you want to, and so you blame it on a medical condition instead of fixing your goddamn life.

(Studies also show that fixing your life is a much better long-term "cure" for depression than medical treatment is.)

My Coffee Addiction

[Fringex]

I will self admit I am addicted to coffee.

I work early hours. Usually up at 5am to start getting ready for work. The first tasks of the morning are to brew a pot of coffee and smoke a cigarette. We already know nicotine among other chemicals in cigarettes is addictive. I just wanna talk about my coffee.

I procede to drink the whole pot which totals out three cups of coffee. (It is a small Braun) I have to have these cups to actually function properly throughout the morning and the rest of the day. Cigarettes will not compensate for the lack of caffine. I have tried and I still carry the "slack" feeling.

Upon walking int he door after a hard 8 hour day at work, my first order of business is to make another pot of coffee. I typically make two so I might share the pot with my fiance. I have to have this pot of coffee to continue to operate the rest of the night without the tired feeling.

As a result of some experimentation. Here is what happens if I cut out coffee for one week.

Day One:
1. Extreme sluggishness throughout most the morning.
2. Trouble concentrating
3. By noon time I experience a jittery feeling. I smoke extra cigarettes to try and ease this feeling. Anxiety is the best way to describe this.
4. By evening I am suffering from a rather uncomfortable headache. Swallowed two asprin without any effect to the headache. It would not subside. Even tried this experiment at a later date with ibuprofin with the same result as asprin.

Day Two:
1. All the same symptons but to a considerably lesser degree. Headache not so bad if not non-existant.
2. Cigarette smoking increased

Day Three:
1. Only the sluggish feeling in the mornings which remained for the remainder of the week.
2. Coffee smells exceptionally good, even better than when taking it on a regular basis.

So my summary in the end is that there is not a strong addiction but more of an intense dependancy. There is still the pull or twinge to want a cup of coffee to alleviate all side-effects. In a later experiment the headache vanished within 10 minutes of drinking two cups of coffee.

So as a conclusion the addiction that I felt was the need to end the side effects that were ailing me. I still continue my morning ritual as I love the taste of coffee in a variety of forms. That and the pick-me-up aspect in the morning is very welcome. I have to be fully aware as an electrician. I cannot afford any mistakes when working with live or potentially live wires. In my trade we treat wires like guns. Even though you know it is not loaded, you treat it as if it were loaded.

That is a general attitude shared among many service electricians. Especially after getting shocked in some of the worst ways possible.

Anything good ...

[LoudMusic]

Incase you scientists haven't noticed, anything that tastes good, or makes a person feel good, is addictive.

Thanks for spending all the research money.

Thank God!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad it took "scientists" until now to "make their discovery" and "reveal" to us that coffee is addictive. For Tim Horton's sake, look around you! We don't need scientists to tell us when we're addicted...

Data, data, data

[j_w_d]

The effects of stopping caffeine consumption have been known medically for decades. There's nohting new in the report, except the lame idea of listing caffeine withdrawal as a "disorder." Besides, they have not offered any data to support this no is there any indication of where the study's funding came from. Two common sources for studies that typically find caffeine is bad for you are the Seventh Day Adventist Church and the Latter DDay Saints (Mormons). Both organizations hold through doctrine that caffeine is bad for you and happily fund efforts to "determine the risks" of caffeine. After all, the church founders SAID it was bad, therefore it must be, Q.E.D.

The report also neglects to discuss the kind of study, but seems to suggest that the results are from self-evaluation among the subjects. I would be far more impressed with a double blind experiment where the subjects behaviour is monitored by staff who don't know the subjects caffiene consumption.

Really Coffee's addictive?

[panic911]

Hi I'm Dr. Panic. I've just discovered that cigarettes are addictive, as well. Spread the word.

Gotta disagree here

[wiredog]

only the opiates produce a severe physical withdrawl syndrome.

It's "dt's" or "the shakes", and it's alcohol withdrawal. Can cause grand mal seizures. So far as I know it's the only withdrawal which can be fatal.

Sure, you have to be a heavy drinker for a while to get addicted to alcohol, but it can be done. Just ask around at any AA meeting.

Re:Gotta disagree here

[Vintermann]

Seconded. And somehow I suspect it's possible to get addicted to nicotine as well. I haven't seen experiments done to monkeys but I have seen experiments people do to themselves...

Re:Gotta disagree here

[El Puerco Loco]

Although quoting things out of context is a time-honored rhetorical device, it makes little sense to do it when the original quote is right above your own. I was talking specifically about opiates, cocaine and amphetamines. Of those three categories, the only one that produces a severe physical withdrawl syndrome is the opiates. I believe my post was pretty clear about that.

I will grant that alcohol is potentially addictive, but the physical withdrawl syndrome has nothing to do with it. People do not drink to prevent the "DTs", they drink for the effect of alcohol on the brain's reward circuitry. In fact, the symptoms of alcohol withdrawl are easily treated with benzodiazapines, which are far less impairing than alcohol itself. Despite this, alcoholics generally cannot be treated successfuly by prescribing benzodiazapines for them. They still want to get drunk, because the drugs do not activate the brain's reward system and alcohol does.

Even still, alcohol's effects on the reward mechanism are far weaker than the three specific classes of drugs I was talking about, and therefore a much smaller percentage of drinkers become addicted to alcohol than say the percentage of crack smokers who become addicted to cocaine.

Re:Gotta disagree here

[El Puerco Loco]

Ah yes, we all know anecdotal evidence is the best kind, and personal hunches come in a close second.

The point of my original post was that comparing things like cigarettes and coffee to things like heroin and crack is akin to comparing apples to oranges. I will grant that a lot of people do genuinely have trouble quitting smoking and a lot of people genuinely do have trouble quitting crack, but the similarity ends there. Despite the almost universal complaints of smokers, cigarettes are relatively cheap and readily available. The social stigma and health consequences of smoking tobacco pale in comparison to those of smoking crack or shooting heroin. Heroin and crack are somewhat difficult and dangerous to aquire, and quite expensive. A single dose of crack or heroin can cost $10-$20, more if you've built up a tolerance. I am fairly certain that if the price of a single cigarette were raised to that level, there would be far fewer chain smokers than we have today. But the funny thing about cocaine and opiates is that addicts will go to almost any length and pay almost any price to get them. It can be difficult to quit smoking, and people who do can be anxious and irritable for a while, but not very many of them experience the extended severe depression and anhedonia that almost every cocaine and heroin addict does when they quit. It may take a lot of willpower to quit smoking, as it does to stop doing anything you like, but the willpower it takes to stop using something that is really addictive like heroin is rather like the willpower it would take to starve yourself to death when food is readily available.

Re:Gotta disagree here

[Vintermann]

Sorry Loco, I don't mean to imply that these more common "addictions" are the same as the really awful ones, just that they are bad enough for me that I don't smoke or drink. Anecdotal evidence and personal experience is quite enough for this decision, although there are of course better reasons, and a hundred times more of them where hard drugs are concerned.

Ban food and other harmful substances!!!

[Xiaotou]

If I go too long without food, I get jittery and irritable. After a while, my system shuts down. Some people have commited criminal acts to "score" some food, and some people have died from "overdosing" on it. This food stuff is dangerous, I tell you. It should be studied and, eventually, banned!

Be careful what you wish for

[Anonymous Coward]

When the fed gov no longer labeled drug addiction as a disease during the early 1900's it allowed them to label drug use a crime even though the only person physically affected is the user.

Now you wouldn't want them removing the "disorder" label from caffeine addiction so the "we know what is best for you" gov can start restricting it, would you? I'm sure the law enforcement agencies who would love to pad their budgets with more drug laws.

don't go screwing your heart

[denisvolgin]

If you feel sleepy in the morning, you need more rest, not coffee. Sure, if you want your heart and vascular system worn out - go ahead and drink even more coffee. It's like stealing your own life from yourself.

And after all, to be a slashdot junkie in your twenties and looking as a 75-year old dude in your forties is not that bad - there are plenty of trailer park trash ladies around. (Actually, they might be younger than they seem).

So, coffee is addictive...

[http101]

...does this mean I should expect the US government to step in and ration my morning brew or start remodeling the package to look like that of a cigarette's?

"Warning - product is addictive, may lead to long term addiction and should not be consumed if you meet one of the following:
1) you are pregnant.
2) you are a tea drinker.
3) you are a moron, er, I mean, mormon."

BTW, I found Pumpkin Ale this weekend at the store. Very good, very tasty, goes great with Halloween! The stuff is made by Buffalo Bills Brewery if anyone wants to look for it.

Among other things that are addictive: cigarettes, greek food, pizza, beer, sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll!

Re: -10 insight-less!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong?

Wrong. On Slashdot, "Wrong!" is one of those semantically empty warm-up words like "well" or "ya know" or "ahem" or "um". It doesn't really mean anything; it's just a standard way of introducing that you're about to say something.

Give it a try. Begin every post with "Wrong." You'll fit in with the crowd much better, and more effectively stimulate discourse.

Correction ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction: I was talking about the DC210 and not the Fuji.

Re:Org. Johns Hopkins Medicine Press release (+P-F

[irritant-1]

I just checked the October edition contents page of Psychopharmacology http://tinyurl.com/6pneo and the item isn't there. Mind you there is something on Clitoral Priapism (third item from the bottom of the page).

Re:Org. Johns Hopkins Medicine Press release (+P-F

[danalien]

I could find the relevant review (NOTE - I'm logged in...)

what I did, and you might have to do to (if link doesn't work), is to go here and search for (in/under 'Articles'): " Laura Juliano " or/xor " Roland R. Griffiths "

Here's some info:

Psychopharmacology
Publisher: Springer-Verlag Heidelberg
ISSN: 0033-3158 (Paper) 1432-2072 (Online)
DOI: 10.1007/s00213-004-2000-x
Issue: Volume 176, Number 1
Date: October 2004
Pages: 1 - 29

Review: "A critical review of caffeine withdrawal: empirical validation of symptoms and signs, incidence, severity, and associated features"