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Nintendo Revolution Under Wraps Past E3
The next-generation Nintendo console, codenamed Revolution, may not be shown at this year's E3. Eurogamer reports that the Japanese console maker is going to keep the console under wraps to keep the features of the new system out of the limelight a little while longer. From the article: "Nintendo boss Satoru Iwata is worried about rivals nicking all his best ideas at this early stage. That's how revolutionary the new console is, apparently... and also the exact same line Nintendo used to avoid showing Mario 128 at a previous E3."
Maybe it has.... 3 screens?
...he is definitley the hardest one to beat. I remember that time I played all night long and I made it up to Boss SI (that's what it says above his life bar cause his name doesn't fit on the screen). I was kickin ass, but then my mom came and pulled the stupid plug.
Wow. It's a good thing they kept the GameCube secret, otherwise sony and microsoft might have outcompeted and outsold them.
Because of course Sony and Microsoft only hear about features at conferences like E3. While the rest of us get the inside track at Slashdot!
I haven't been keeping up on console games recently, so I dont know what evenets still exist. I *think* that there is some show in Japan in the Fall, but I don't know. I think Nntendo should atleast have some beta hardware to show off, not just DS and Gamecube games. This may hurt them. But maybe this is jsut a flase rumor.
Now let's wait for E3.
Nothing for you to see here, Please move along.
I tell you as a 13 year old I learned more about the economics and marketing tricks of consumer electronics by waiting and waiting for my Super Famicom - uhm I mean SNES (North American release), Just watching all the consoles that never were (err the Play Station was, though Nintendo bailed) showed me how committed to product schedules Nintendo was.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.
I'm so frustrated with Nintendo. It's like they haven't gotten it since the early 90s with the SNES. CDs? Who needs those? Whatever defines their self-made revolution had better be the end all to games for it to fly. PS3 and 360 are going to appeal to the masses and steal away more of Nintendo's turf. I myself am considering jumping ship as Nintendo has failed to inspire me this last generation as it did with the first two.
"I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, spare me the hype."
So I take it that you won't be paying attention to the XBOX 360 or Playstation 3, either?
"Derp de derp."
I have owned every nintendo system since the NES (haven't picked up a DS yet though), and the video gaming experience from nintendo has never been matched for me by other systems (Genesis might have briefly come close). I grew up on Zelda, Mario and Metroid, and I have loved seeing how these genres and characters have evolved (I swear I have loved 100% of each of these game's evolutions over the last 20+ years - that track record simply can't be beat).
Nothing against PS2 and XBox, but I have absolutely no interest in following the adventures of "Master Chief," or Ico. I'm sure these games are good, but I won't be playing them.
"That's how revolutionary the new console is Lets just hope that doesn't mean something like "Lets dare to be different, and use annoying mini-disks instead of the standard DVDs. They provide lower quality, AND they don't meet up to modern-day standards. Its brilliant!"
This might be insightful if Nintendo wasn't responsible for the standard 4 controller ports, standard analog sticks, standard 'rumble' functions, the huge portable gaming market, yadda yadda yadda.
"Derp de derp."
The Open Source community has the most to gain if Nintendo releases a console based on Linux.
They ARE being unveiled at or before E3, while Nintendo has expiclitly said they won't have anything to show. That's a lot different than saying "we have nothing".
In case you hadn't noticed ... Nintendo already has captured some of the console market. Adding Linux as a "feature" would attract very little new capital, I would imagine ... and probably just make the thing run slower.
"Nintendo has the most to gain by releasing a console based on Linux. In this respect, they could capture some console market and then facilitate for the same apps to be released on Linux."
There are more people with GameCubes than using Linux today. Why would Linux make the next Nintendo system suddenly capture marketshare when nobody even cared that the PS2 had a Linux kit?
"Derp de derp."
They have pulled the exact same trick for the N64 (remember the Ultra64?), Virtual Boy, Game Cube and DS. Meanwhile the consoles that left a significant mark on their generation were the NES and Super NES. What did they have that made a difference? Certainly not the fancy gadgets. Remember that NES robot that was promptly set aside?
What made them special is that they offered the best games and were the most powerful at the time. Mario and Zelda made the NES. They also made the Super NES, along with Street Fighter II and Mario Kart. We would almost cry at the inovation of the gameplay, quality of the graphics and music, and amazing fun they provided.
Today it's all about superficially good looking graphics. Gameplay and fun went the way of the dodo. Meanwhile Nintendo thinks it's okay to have consoles with non standard earphone plugs...
I miss those days spent with the old NES/GB/SNES...
Thats odd, considering the DS has sold more than half a million more units the PSP in Japan, and were released only within a few weeks of each other.
I'll buy it, since I'm a huge Nintendo fan. The casual gamer won't be so accomodating. Nintendo needs to build some hype around the system if they want to actually change the video game industry. Right now, even some hardcore Nintendo fans are skeptical.
Nintendo - shooting ourselves in the foot since 1990...
"no seriously, i think this just means that theyre not ready to show it."
Or it'd be simple to integrate. The Dual Shock controller came out pretty quickly after the N64 was unveiled.
"Derp de derp."
Actually, they seem to be pretty neck-and-neck (in Japan at least). Check here for details.
Nintendo has this obsessive-compulsive desire to be original and I hope it doesn't dig them into an even larger hole this time. Time will tell, but it doesn't look to be on Nintendo's side a.t.m.
"They provide lower quality..." AND they reduce piracy, which is excessively rampant for the XBox and the PS2. Go looking for XBox and PS2 game torrents, and you'll find them by the hundreds. You'll be able to count the number of Gamecube torrents on your fingers. Besides...lower quality that's also better than the PS2? Not lower quality, but rather less space.
It's really hard to imagine what these secret features might be. M$ and Sony are about upping the graphics ante, not about incorporating voice recognition, three screens, body sensors or whatever new ideas Nintendo comes up with. Maybe if these features turn out to be a success in the marketplace -- unlikely if the DS is any indicator -- the other console makers would think about incorporating them. I figure Nintendo's secretness is just a way of building hype around the product.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
"They ARE being unveiled at or before E3, while Nintendo has expiclitly said they won't have anything to show."
Eh I'm so confused by this. Just 2 days ago I read that Nintendo was going to show clips of the games, but not the actual system. *Rolleyes* In any event, I wouldn't equate that with "we have nothing". Nintendo wouldn't make that bold of risk at the turn of a new generation.
As for Sony and Microsoft, they'll show their systems and make ridiculous claims about the capabilities of them. They're going to be suffering from hype-burn, too.
"Derp de derp."
Might they be holding out to unveil it at the Tokyo Game Show, so that they can completely steal the headlines for the entire show instead of sharing space with the other systems at E3?
The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
The N64, which was originally the Dolphin, then the Ultra 64 was delayed almost two years. The Gamecube was delayed as well. Now we're seeing the possibility of an Xbox release this year, a possible PS3 release in Japan end of this year/early next, and Nintendo hoping to get the console out by end of 2006. If it's not delayed again. Then they release the DS, and now the Gameboy Revolution planned. The DS was a quickly made half-assed portable to beat the PSP to market.
Don't get me wrong, I used to be a huge Nintendo fan. I always thought they were pioneers, but they're becoming that old dinosaur of the industry that's only still around because the brand name itself has some intrinsic value.
The PSP is one nice looking piece of hardware, but what are you going to play on it? The same kind of crap games you can get on the DS. Neither company is going to get my money until they release a decent game worth playing. Re-hashes of racing games and Tetris on steriods does not cut it folks. Neither does half-baked dating simulators and kiddie-poo games for the DS.
annoying mini-disks
If you're referring to the Gamecube's discs, what the hell are you talking about?
lower quality
In what sense?
don't meet up to modern-day standards
It's true that they don't have as much capacity as DVDs, but how many multi-disc Gamecube games have there been? In fact, the smaller discs are capable of spinning faster than DVDs, providing faster transfer rates (or so I've heard).
It has an anal "joy-buzzer" to give a more immersive force feedback experience. I know what you're thinking. Not only does it have 3 vibration settings, it can also deliver qute powerful electric shocks. I only tested a unit for the north american market. I would hope that the "unit" for the Japanese market will be smaller, because even at 6'5" and 300lbs I found the american version to be....uncomfortable.
Oh you bring a tear to my eye. Oh how you bring back the memories of Slashdot of years past. You know, Slashdot before the Legion of Jobs showed up and proclaimed that Apple had an answer to everything.
Yes. Bring me back my old Slashdot. Please, please bring back:
1. Make it with Linux
2. ??
3. Profit!
Bring back the good old days, when BSD was dead and Red Hat was king.
(and yes I AM serious)
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Great, now I'm bald.
Damn you, Nintendo. I have been a loyal servant of yours ever since I first played Super Mario Brothers 2 on the NES: I've fought for you time and again in the useless internet debates; I've spent my hard-earned college cash to pay for your no-internet system with lacking 3rd Party support; I even still lug around my N64 because it has games I enjoyed enough in the past that I might want to play them again in the future, but I'm not really sure if I ever will!
Doesn't that deserve something? If nothing else, show some footage. I don't need to see the actual system or controllers right now; but damned if I don't see any 'eye candy', and I'm not talking those sweet Ssian numbers you put on display... actually, that's more of a Sony thing.
In any case, I digress. While I can understand wanting to keep industry secrets secret, we're not asking you to reveal every spec of the system. If all you did was hint at what makes this console a 'revolution', and showed a picture of one of the buttons on the controller, that would be enough for many a fanboy.
So, Nintendo, I ask you this: Please, please, won't you show something? Have we not earned at least that?
Man, I remember not all that long ago when someone would say "I'm gonna play nintendo" and mean any console. Nintendo just isn't getting the same respect they used to even for their older games.
Consoles have essentially one hardware configuration. A heavyweight OS like Linux would slow it down horribly. If you want a general-purpose machine instead of one only to play games, go buy a PC. In fact, you can play games on those, too.
English is easier said than done.
Nintendo can unveil it at E3, and go up against Microsoft and Sony's HUGE marketing budget and hype. Magazines would probably have a triple feature, with sections given to each system and the respective company booths.
Or, Nintendo can wait a couple of months until the media coverage dies down a little bit, unveil the console, and get the cover of every non-platform-specific major game magazine in the biz. This decision shows not a lack of preparation or a schedule issue, but a smart martketing choice.
but the DS is a mediocre underperforming gimmick. Both sides did rather poorly in this battle, I think.
I agree. The PSP didn't have anything to catch my attention, but the DS has been dissapointing. I think Gabe/Tycho said it best at Penny Arcade when he said "The DS doesn't have any games, just some tech demos."
The DS could be good and new, but I've yet to see a game take advantage of the new features in a meaningful way.
I'm not sure gamers want something revolutionary. Just look at PS2 and Xbox. They've outsold Gamecube by a large margin in the US. They are considered cooler simply because of their titles (resulting from excellent third-party support). Xbox isn't revolutionary. However, that's not to say that it has not done anything in the industry. With their Xbox Live, killer titles such as Halo 2, and better graphics, it is easily surpassing the Gamecube. This will be their third attempt, after N64 and Gamecube where weren't as successful as anticipated. I strongly feel that if they fail to succeed overwhelmingly with the "Revolution", they will ultimately strike out in the console race.
And I just bought my Gamecube in January... guess you bastards are going to force me to upgrade my PackardBell to play doom 3, too?
GEeez... you buy something new and it gets outdated in just a few years.
The mini-disks are used because they avoid DVD licensing issues and the constant velocity drive gives better performance (shorter loading times.)
In addition to previously mentioned innovations made by Nintendo (4 controller ports standard, etc.) another benefit of mini disc size is it forces publishers to actually use their brains when producing GC games.
Strangely enough, less space on disc available to the gamemaker means they can't just cram a bunch of FMV sequences into a crapass game then ship it off. When you consider that all new games cost about the same upon release, I'd say the gamer benefits from publishers rising to meet that challenge.
And even if Nintendo is playing the idiot corporation card for E3, I still think they deserve credit for game ideas that, IMHO, benefit the gamer in the end. I think a great example of this is the Donkey Konga/Jungle Run franchise. I realize that Dance Dance Revolution existed before this, but Nintendo seems to be the first one to actually bring this idea to the console. "Hey, wow! How about we make something new, as opposed to making yet another sports sim game?"
You just me feel like an old geezer. I remember saying "I'm gonna play atari" for any game console. Reminds me that I've heard my little cousin use the phrase "I'm gonna play playstation" in the same sense.
History repeats, albeit in shorter cycles. Time flies faster within the tech industry.
So what if Nintendo doesn't show their new system at E3? It's not like the system isn't going to be demonstrated months before it's release anyway. Sure internet nerds like us will be disapointed, but I'd wager that a good majority of video gamers don't really care about who does what at E3, but rather will have their interest piqued by what's advertised in the mainstream media. This could even work to Nintendo's advantage. People get saturated by all the stuff that's released at E3, thus diminishing the impact of the information released. By letting the other guys beat at each other for a while, Nintendo can see where the bar is being set and can have their own press release a month later. This gives the gamers a chance to cool down and get hungry for more information after E3, and Nintendo does have a knack for making interesting and engaging presentations.
When is the new Nintendo system coming out? Before the next E3? If not, then I'd say they don't want to become old-hat before it does come out. They'll let Microsoft and Sony demonstrate all of their new features that will be seen as "older" when E3 comes around next year when Nintendo announces their new features.
Nintendo can also concentrate on their Online component (which would be ignored even more if the new system was unveiled).
The "stealing our ideas" is just PR bullshit.
Having said that, if the systems are to be released before the next E3, I can see this as being a BIG mistake.
It most likely wouldn't. If Nintendo designed it correctly, most people probably wouldn't even know it had Linux in it.
nobody even cared that the PS2 had a Linux kit?
That's probably because Sony created the PS2 Linux kit for game developers/hobbyists and not the normal consumer. It was available through Sony's website, but it was definitely designed to be an inexpensive T10K. It even comes with the developer documentation.
It did, however, sell out in both the U.S. and Japan, so somebody must have cared.
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
When's the last time Rare made a good game?
Why am I not rapping? I am rapping with you in a way.
My personal opinion is that Nintendo lost a ton of respect in the gaming market with the Gamecube. The gamecube is still a lot of fun, but to me it feels more like a little kids toy as opposed to PS2 or Xbox. Given the choice to buy one single console, I would certainly choose a PS2 or Xbox over a gamecube any day. The gamecube just doesn't cut it for my needs. Let's hope this "revolution" truly is a revolution for Nintendo.
Nintendo got it right with the GBA though. Based on current prices I'd still take that over a DS or PSP.
The only thing the DS has that got me to buy it was it's backwards compatibility with GBA games. I don't own a GBA, but a lot of games in that line I really enjoy playing.
So I'm keeping myself happy playing GBA games on my DS until something worthy comes out on DS cards.
The next Zelda game better be DS... or I'm going to go postal.
Speaking of vaporware has anyone heard anything about the phan tom gaming console?
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
Nintendo doesn't need to show off their system to let developers get a feel for it. It is 100% backwards compatible with the Gamecube and uses the same development API.
Effectively they can run a more fine grained marketing strategy because of this. No need to shout "you should learn how to program like this." Once Nintendo 3rd parties have the devkits in hand they should already know how to program it.
Remember: This is a TRADE SHOW. You let developers and publishers know what's up. Nintendo has already told them enough to get started. Know your Gamecube and Nintendo DS APIs and you should be good to go for everything Revolution.
You have quite a point, and I declare the parent officially pwnt.
-gjr
The thing people don't realize here is that Nintendo is a hugely profitable company. Even though it's console was a distant 3rd in the last race, it makes so much money off of games and eventually hardware (as it becomes cheaper to produce) that they don't really care about losing big time to sony & microsoft (in the US at least).
Nintendo can really do whatever it wants. No matter what it will make up more then enough in the pure software sales on it's next gen system alone. MS & Sony don't have this advantage. For 1, MS has to buy all second party support, which costs mega $$$, and they don't have many (any?) first party games. Sony has paltry first party games, and the bulk of sales on software is given to third parties (the bulk of software sales being the bulk of profit available from consoles).
That's the economics of Nintendo, and if you aren't used to it by now, you've been naive.
ANyone who shows off new hardware at E3 is a complete idiot when it comes to marketing. When we see a new console or big game it can usually get a good 4-5 page spread in magazines, 2-3 articles on big websites each and so on and so forth. Now if you release E3 week you get 1 mention per website thrown in with the 2 other consoles and general games which "look amazing and will rock the world!" type stuff. If Nintendo really want the hype they will wait 2-3 weeks after E3, let the other consoles hype die down and then show it off in an exclusive event. That way they don't have to compete with anything but "heres what we saw at E3 that you rad about 2-3 weeks ago on every website there is" type articles.
Plus they would get their own Penny Arcade strip rather than one based on the 3 consoles which may do them alot of favours.
I like muppets.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
Sure made piracy difficult though didn't it? :)
I like muppets.
It's not to say you can't do both...... Nintendo isn't saying they're going to go backwards on hardware or something. Just that their philosophy is that a focus should be on fun and enjoyable games, rather than just purely on hardware, etc. used to do more advanced versions of the same basic game types.
Regarding the second comment...... just because something is a sequel to an existing franchise doesn't mean it can't be something new. And conversely, something can be a "new" brand but still basically be just a rehash of old ideas. For the most part, when you look at some of the recent Zelda and Metroid sequels, for example, you see something where they take elements and brands that have existed before, but do pretty new things with them. I don't think I'd blame them though for doing something in the vein of an existing franchise though, rather than creating a completely new franchise, because it can make it a lot easier for someone to pay attention to a completely new game if it is part of a universe and history that people like.
-Tom
This is a very good thing. If all the consoles get released in mid-late 2006 (possibly this year in Japan with the PS3), this will have been one of the shortest console generations ever. They're still doing great things with all the consoles. I am not ready for another generation and I doubt that developers are either. Updateing to the next generation will cost at least another $200, and that's just for the N5. The PS3 will probably cost $300. That's a half a grand investment. I want to go more than just 4 or 5 years on it.
--The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. --Tycho Brahe (Penny Arcade)
Shame Nintendo isn't third. The Japanese market laughs at the Xbox and it will the next generation of it. Nintendo aim games at real gamers (I mean old school not Madden 83049234 players), they know their market and what they want. Quirky games which play well, have short load times and are generally fun to replace when you don't know where every monster is and what weapon to shoot it with.
As long as Nintendo stick to their guns and keep making fun games their fanbase won't stray too far. They may not make them number 1 in the games market but right now it's been flooded with "Average Joes" who just want the latest EA offering, Halo whatever it is now and don't care about anything except pretty graphics.
I like muppets.
Heh. Well I have a theory. Rumor has it that Nintendo is choosing between two or three systems right now. Assuming that's true, maybe Nintendo's waiting to see what MS and Sony do before making any commitals.
This may seem a little out-there, but if Nintendo is doing something revolutionary like putting a touch screen into the controllers, it stands to reason that the money put into those will result in not as spiffy of graphical specs. If the difference is that noticable, perhaps they're deciding between a $200 system and a $300 system.
Anyway, maybe that's just my imagine working over-time. If I were a bettin man, though, I'd say that Nintendo's big revolution isn't in the system itself, but in the controller. It's probably too late for Sony or MS to mess with the system specs a lot, but tossing in a controller feature may not be out of the question yet.
"Derp de derp."
Look, the X-Box 360 and Playstation 3 are already designed and getting ready to debut at E3. It's not like they can radically change the design in time for their ship dates by stealing Nintendo's ideas at E3.
DS was featured at E3 in May of last year, and had several changes made to it before its launch on September 21st. 4 months sure can make a difference.
I love RPGs. Super Nintendo was, and still is (in my opinion), the best console for RPGs. Final Fantasy 4-6, Secret of Mana 1 and 2, Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Evermore, Earthbound, and Super Mario RPG, among others, were some of the best video games I'd ever played.
When the N64 came out, I naturally expected the same quality and hurriedly bought it. And guess what? There is not, to my knowledge, a single traditional RPG for it. Quest 64? A joke. Paper Mario came close, but no cigar. Zelda? Good game, but still not an RPG in the traditional sense.
The Gamecube was a little better, but still not quite hitting it. Tales of Symphonia, Skies of Arcadia, and Phantasy Star Online were all pretty good; but Arcadia and PSO were just Dreamcast ports, and Symphonia is being ported to the PS2 with added features.
But my complaint isn't limited just to RPGs. My gaming has shifted heavily to the PC, because, owning only Nintendo console (foolishly), there's just not enough quality gaming coming out consistently. At best, it's a decently fun game every few months.
Oh, and let's not forget the DS now. Every game that has come out so far is--let's face it--pretty bland. The two most entertaining games are Mario 64 DS and Zoo Keeper, but both are ports of existing games (Mario 64 and Bejeweled, respectively). They've all just used the touch screen as a mere gimmick, too; where's the innovation?
Whereas the PSP not only has several great games (Lumines, anyone?), but also vast homebrew capability. Skimming Slashdot every day, I've seen probably half a dozen or so articles about neat homebrew PSP projects; the only one for the DS is DSLinux, which is barely even out of its infancy.
Will I choose the Revolution over the other next-gen consoles when it comes out? Maybe. Will it disappoint? I wouldn't doubt it. How I choose my next console doesn't alter my point, though: after the SNES, Nintendo has failed to impress me time and time again.
Credit for Donkey Konga? What about Samba de Amigo on the good 'ol Sega Dreamcast? Seems like the same sort of game, except with drums instead of maracas.
Samba de Amigo was out back in 2000..took Nintendo a bit to catch up.
Not to say it sounds like a bad game or anything -- Samba is a ton of fun with a few friends after a brewski or two..
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the situation, but I thought that patents existed exactly for individuals and companies who created new and different (revolutionary) technology. If Nintendo invented a new technological innovation for incorporation into their next-generation system, I would have expected them to have filed for a patent on the invention long ago, thus preventing their competition from "stealing" the idea.. or is it not revolutionary enough to be original? Thoughts, explanations?
"As long as Nintendo stick to their guns and keep making fun games their fanbase won't stray too far."
Nintendo's got themselves an interesting situation here. They do have their fanbase and they can remain successful maintaining it. Despite not being #1, Nintendo's not exactly hurting here. They may not have several 10s of millions of GameCubes out there, but several of their titles have surpassed the million-units-sold mark. Nintendo makes a LOT more money on games than they do on consoles, especially the first-party ones. (That's before even mentioning Nintendo's hand-held monopoly... wow.)
Nintendo's biggest success here, as you've stated, is in their self-branded games. When those start becoming run-of-the-mill (and yes, there is a serious risk of that happening), then I'd be less inclined to argue with people predicting Nintendo's demise. Man I'm seeing a lot of Apple similarities here.
"Derp de derp."
You must be new here...
You see, a vast majority of the people on slashdot, for one reason or another, do not like to pay for information, as information wants to be free and slashdot denizans respect its wishes. So, they naturally migrate towards the PS2 and XBOX, which facilitate the freedom of said information, and Natalie Portman naked and petrified.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I think one thing to remember is that the DS is not nintendo's next generation hand held. That is still coming. The DS was something to throw at the psp to slow it down. I don't know if the Revolution will bring back some of niontendo's lost market share, in fact I doubt it will, but nintendo didn't end up with billions in the bank by being stupid.
That said, I think all of the next consoles are going to have an uphill fight for volume simply because their projected street price brings them awfully close to computers which have more utility and a larger body of games.
"The mini-disks are used because they avoid DVD licensing issues and the constant velocity drive gives better performance (shorter loading times.)"
Maybe my imagination's working over-time here, but I also think they chose this medium in order to make a portable GameCube some time down the road. Right or wrong, I really hope Nintendo sticks with this format. Imagine if the PSP was big enough to accomodate the PS2 discs. Ugh.
"Derp de derp."
Because slashdot just absolutely has to print every single rumor without ever once actually saying the rumor is offered without basis...
Nintendo has said multiple times that they will be unveiling the Revolution at E3. They've given warnings along the lines that it may be at an early stage, or that it won't be playable, or that some of the demos may be behind-closed-doors, at E3. But they at least have said they'll be showing it. And this has been said by Nintendo representatives, speaking on the record.
So, what's the source for this article slashdot links, which is saying it won't be?
"Reports". From "Japan".
You'll excuse me if I take repeated statements by official persons speaking for Nintendo more seriously than "reports from Japan".
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
This might be insightful if Nintendo wasn't responsible for the [...], standard 'rumble' functions
Come again?
You can't take the sky from me...
Go looking for XBox and PS2 game torrents, and you'll find them by the hundreds. You'll be able to count the number of Gamecube torrents on your fingers.
I can also count the number of total games for the Gamecube on my fingers. (okay okay, only the decent ones)
Last I went to Best Buy, they had blank DVD minidisc thingies there. Not the CDs, but the bigger DVD equivalent, like Gamecube uses.
Agreed. One thing to remember about DDR is that it is a modern relative of the old Powerpad games from the original NES. There was even an aerobics game that was similar in basic idea. I am not saying that DDR is a ripoff of those games, DDR is literally a revolution in gaming. BUT, it is important to recognize that Nintendo even had a hand in this one.
You've got thepoint exactly. As long as Nintendo starts to take a few more risks and release some more games based on their most popular series (Metroid - Mario - Zelda - Pikmin - Pokemon and Super smash brothers). They can keep a float happily in the console market (Lets not get into DS VS PSP. IMO Theres no choice between the two. I'm still waiting on getting some cahs bakc I'm owed to go pick up a DS). They just need to loop back their revolutionary talk into games. If there is anyone who can beat the "lets make it all from tin foil to impress people!" market it's the old N.
Ask ANYONE who played Tetris and they'll comfirm this. Even today that game looks and plays as good as ever. Halo 2 VS Tetris and I know which I'll still wan tin 10 years time.
Hell I still remember the Christmas I got my GB. I remember the batteries dying and all 3 games we got that year. Infact I have a GBA and a bag of 40-50 GB games right next to me.
A true sign of a good console is that you never want to get rid of it.. I dread to think what I could buy if I put all my consoles on Ebay (Everything from the Nes-master system era right up to the PS2 and Cube), but they are so timeless to me that it's jus tnot worth it.
SNES games still look fantastic to day, PSX games look unplayable.. work it out from there..
I like muppets.
Nintendo used to have an annual show just for them: Spaceworld. That's where the GameCube (and the original realistic Zelda demo) was shown in 2000. It's been dead for a few years now, but new system makes the perfect excuse to revive it.
The "stealing our ideas" is just PR bullshit.
Gee, I wonder why Nintendo would be so scared about theft?
Could it be that Sony and Microsoft have stolen their best ideas and used them against them? The better question you should be asking yourself is this: What exactly hasn't been stolen by Microsoft and Sony?
Sony and Microsoft are such innovators.
Ask JVC how their VHS sales were. And after that, ask Apple how their icon operating system turned out for them. There is such a high moral ground with them. They never steal someone's idea and run with it.
Nintendo is practically the R&D department for Sony and Microsoft. They should just cut them a check for a percentage of their great ideas. "Hey thanks for the great idea Shiggy!"
Ask yourself this, do you really think that this week's FPS is the best game of all time because it adds some new features, or are you too nearsighted to respect something like Pikmin, which creates a new genre? I don't care about the torque engine to make my blood splatters better. Where are the Xbox and Sony games that bend my mind? Where are they? Where is their strategic vision beyond marketing data that tells them that Madden is popular and people like FPS games? THEY HAVE NO VISION. They don't have a creator mentality. They have Project Snowblind. Whoop de crap. Another FPS? Yeeehaw! Everything, and I do mean everything, that Sony and Microsoft have learned in the video game industry they learned by watching Nintendo.
I bet you're the person that doesn't like to cook because of the hassle, right? Just not into this creativity thing, eh?
But let's not just ask you, let's ask MS and Sony. Just look at who MS and Sony talk smack about. Not each other. That should tell you right off who they respect the most. Certainly isn't each other. They aren't jealous of ricer racing and card battle games.
They provide lower quality, AND they don't meet up to modern-day standards
It only mean less space. How much more expensive is to bundle 2 or 3 discs in the case instead of one? Very little, so it's really not a problem.
Plus, the loading times of those discs are MUCH faster than what I see on the xbox and ps2. The biggest one i've seen on the cube was with resident evil 4, and that means maybe 5 seconds to load a huge and texture heavy area.
Vibrating controllers came to be standard fare when the Rumble Pak came about.
Not long after the N64 was unveiled, Sony released it's Dual Shock controller (complete with 2!! analog sticks and a built in 'rumble' feature.) to the PS1. Then, the Dreamcast had it's own 'rumble pak'. Then the PS2 came with the Dual Shock Controllers. Then the XBOX came along... etc.
Personally, that little tidbit about the Dual Shock controller is what's making me wonder about Nintendo's secrecy, here. I personally think that they did something snazzy with the controller, but they're trying to prevent an imitation of the feature from making it into the boxes of the PS3 and XBOX02's.
"Derp de derp."
You don't believe Nintendo's ever coming out with another console?
Wow... that's, uh... interesting.
~ Aero
standard analog sticks
I find it ironic that the only gaming company to go with an entirely digital gaming pad, when Everyone had analog gaming pads, some with numerical digital pads.. is now considered to be the the company to bring back standard analog sticks.
Nintendo Killed the analog stick. Atari had 2 buttons and an analog stick. Colecovision had 2 digital fire buttons, 12 digital numberpad buttons, and an analog stick. Intellivision had an analog pad, and a number pad.. the NES had a digital pad, and 4 buttons. I think sega dropped the analog stick too, but i'm not sure at what point they did.
Analog control sticks are back out of the grave, but half of the people I know hate them. They're only 'back' because they co-exist with the d-pad, which is a much easier input device to handle.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Where are the Xbox and Sony games that bend my mind?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you mostly, but...
Katamari Damacy. It's a game I really, really wish was made for a Nintendo system. It's almost like a non-Nintendo Nintendo game.
They are diluting themselves in the market. If they launch systems this close, they need to drop support quicker. For example, they should only make only DS and GBA games in 2005.
???? Revolution
2004 DS
2003 Gameboy Advanced
2001 Gamecube
1999 Gameboycolor
1998 Gameboypocket
1996 N64
1995 Virtualboy
1991 SNES
1989 Gameboy
1985 NES
"Strangely enough, less space on disc available to the gamemaker means they can't just cram a bunch of FMV sequences into a crapass game then ship it off."
Or they can just use multiple discs. Capcom has done it, and would probably happen a lot more often if Nintendo's former CEO hadn't pissed off most of the big Japanese game developers.
"Nintendo has the most to gain by releasing a console based on Linux."
WTF? If I wanted to play games on something with an operating system, I'd be playing on my PC.
What would be the point in putting Linux on the console? Increase overhead in order to lessen the performance of the games? Remember how many games used WinCE on the Dreamcast?
More unsubstantiated Nintendo rumors reported as fact. I see nothing in the eurogamer article that is an official announcement from Nintendo. The last thing a Nintendo exec actually said is that the Revolution would be at E3 in some form, but would not be its "coming out party."
Now I will get to read the onslaught of comments on every forum about how stupid Nintendo is for announcing this. It's just like the new Game Boy rumor all over again.
Please tell me why you are grouping all the developers under the brand of Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo developers first party games or hires someone to develop second party games. Microsoft does the same; as does Sony, but the majority of the hits on both consoles do not come from first/second party games unlike Nintendo. So please get your shit straight.
And before you go on and say, Halo this, Halo that; I said majority of the games not two games. If you have something to talk about legitimately theft, i.e. something dealing with graphic procedures, etc, then you might have an argument. But to talk about them stealing game innovation ideas is crazy; especially since both don't develop nearly as many first party games as Nintendo does.
Now the developers for both systems is something different; but you can't blame Sony and Microsoft for what third party developers jack from another developer (or Nintendo); even though you clearly want to.
I'm f#$king magic!
Weren't Sony the ones hyping their system beyond any reasonable expectations of its capabilities? It seems (to me, at least, a compulsieve between-the-lines reader, that) Nintendo is just trying to be wary of not doing the same thing and then getting hosed when the final product fails to meet expectations.
Which Atari are you talking about? Atari is the company, not the system. The Atari 2600, for example, distinctly had /one/ button and was definitely a digital joystick.
I'm unsure about the Colecovision. I don't remember it being analog or analog-like (multiple direction "settings" rather than using a potentiometer. I never had an Intellivision, so I can't say for that.
I happen to love analog sticks, except for their durability. I'll wear out a controller within a few months of hard-use, whereas I've still got my original NES controllers, and they still work.
The game cube uses a proprietary disk developed by panasonic. It is amazing for preventing piracy because they don't sell blank disks nor recorders.
No, they're not "like Gamecube uses". Gamecube discs are non-standard and written differently than normal mini-DVDs (although they do spin the same way, contrary to popular opinion). No publicly-available product is physically capable of burning them. So they're pretty much unpiratable.
Then again, that's only a strong point if it encourages third-party game development. As of yet, it doesn't seem to have done so. While a Gamecube is worth owning if only for the (excellent) Nintendo titles, it's never going to be popular in the US marketplace without much stronger developer support.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
It's being launched at E3 this year!!!
They even got Duke Nukem Forever as the exclusive launch title! Talk about a killer app!
"I find it ironic that the only gaming company to go with an entirely digital gaming pad, when Everyone had analog gaming pads, some with numerical digital pads.. is now considered to be the the company to bring back standard analog sticks."
Well... eh.. I dunno about that. I don't know much about pre-Nintendo analog sticks, so bear with me. What use is an analog stick in a 2D game? They became far more interesting when consoles started going 3D. (PCs had them for years for flight simulators.) I'm hard pressed to imagine an Atari-era game that made effective use of an analog stick.
I personally think that Nintendo was 'revolutionary' in adding the analog stick to the N64 and tying it to Mario's movement. (The control paradigm of "tilt stick in direction you want Mario to go" instead of trying to turn him and make him go forward...) But, and this may seem like I'm backtracking here, I think that analog sticks would have materialized eventually anyway. So, why aren't I back-tracking here? Well, maybe I'm just too much of a Nintendo zealot, but I think that the controlling of 3D characters wouldn't have been standardized the way it is now.
"I think sega dropped the analog stick too, but i'm not sure at what point they did."
Sega didn't have analog sticks until the Saturn came out. Even then, they were peripheral and not really standard. They came out when the game Nights came out. The Dreamcast controlles are fairly similar in design to the Saturn analog controller.
"They're only 'back' because they co-exist with the d-pad, which is a much easier input device to handle."
Err... The ease-of-use of digital vs. analog controls is more context sensitive than anything else. For Mario 64, analog is king. For Tetris, stick with the D-pad. I recently bought a Playstation 2, and ugh, the differences between the PS2 controller and the GameCube controller are disturbing. The GC controller has an analog stick, but it has an 8-way notch you can move the stick into. You can actually get the GC stick to go straight up, or diagonal, etc much like a D-pad. The PS2 stick doesn't do this. Worse, if you push the stick down, there's a click. That may seem like a great idea, but it's driving me nuts playing San Andreas. I accidently hit the L3 button a LOT. It blows the car's horn. Every time I make a sharp turn *HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK*. In that case, I'd almost rather use the D-Pad than the analog stick.
Er.. yeah, I have a lot to say about controllers. Heh.
"Derp de derp."
Well... you can also count the number of good GameCube titles on your fingers...
You have more than 10 fingers? Because I know that I have more than 10 good GameCube games and I wouldn't consider myself "hardcore".
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
So calling your console "Revolution" does not equal hype?
Which other console had a 1st-party rumble solution, as opposed to shitty sound-based wannabe 3rd party rumblers, before the N64?
One of three things are happening here: ~ Number 1 (and the most likely one), the Revolution has a new, intersting idea that's generally good and will make for a good console. However, it's nothing Sony and Microsoft is going to go out on a limb to steal. So in summary, Iwata is completely paranoid. ~ Number 2 (the one everyone prays for), the 'Revolutionary' concept, really is that big. Like, "redefine all of gaming" big. Or at least, "Dude! This is the rox0rs!" big. ~ Finally, Nintendo is simply playing a hype game. Regardless of how good the system is, the speculation is going to be bigger. Thus, it's a marketing ploy. This seems highly unlikely, as it would work against them as of E3. ----- http://www.nwizard.com/
I've seen many statements in this and other discussions that outright declare or at least imply that the GC is solidly in 'third place' in the three man race between GC, PS2, and Xbox. Now clearly the PS2 is in first place, but the last 'real' figures I recall seeing (a very long time ago) seemed to indicate that the race for 2nd between GC and Xbox was about even. Can anyone cite a reputable reference that can give an accurate picture of how things stand today? Preferably any such citation would be for worldwide sales figures (as opposed to US only figures). It's not that sales figures have anything to do with game/system quality and value, but I'm curious as to whether those who make such claims have a factual basis upon which to make them (or not). Such claims seem to be made frequently, but I don't recall seeing any recent authoritative citation.
Don't you have someone you'd die for?
Nah, they're not unpiratable, it just took a while for the gc modchips to appear. Google Viper GC.
those mini disks are great! they're small and they hold just as much as they need! Nintendo games are in no way any less quallity than the other systems! In fact, Nintendo games look better than PS2 games!
Look at me. I'm bashing my head on the keyboard.
sfdgferbewfrerszt trewrd fgdswerdesbf
Do you really think that showing it to the public is the same as showing it to developers?
"Strangely enough, less space on disc available to the gamemaker means they can't just cram a bunch of FMV sequences into a crapass game then ship it off." I'm sure there's some pressure on the game developers to fill the disc up as much as possible but I can't see that being one of the main guidelines for designing a game. "OMG Finally!! The disc is full, we're done. LOL" I specifically remember many games for the Nintendo 64 that were quite a far cry from filling the cartridge to it's full capacity.
Nintendo made Katamari? Lumines? So Nintendo has a single game that bends your mind?
....
And just how did Xbox and PS2 steal everything from Nintendo? Looking at me I mainly play online games, could I say Nintendo is going to steal from Xbox and PS2 by going online?
Who really cares who stole from who? You like your Gamecube, good for you, keep playing it. Tell me, these innovative games that Nintendo always releases, am I able to play them against my family a few thousand miles away? Can I play my own music tracks on the game?(Did Xbox copy this from Nintendo too?)
Maybe I'm just ignorant but the XBox 360 and Playstation 3 are not going on sale at E3 only on display. There is still plenty of time for both companies to modify their systems.
Maybe not to the extent that they can take all ideas from Nintendo but enough to cause some harm to Nintendo's market.
Attracting third party developers is not a panacea. Microsoft is certainly losing a lot of money going that route. Nintendo might not compete with Sony for marketshare, but their heavily first party (and thus heavily exclusive) lineup does well at holding on to a core of fiercely loyal customers.
You shouldn't think of Nintendo as Gateway to Sony's Dell... Nintendo is the Apple of the console business.
Think about it: Heavy on concept, low on market share, and with a related consumer product (the Gameboy) whose design has managed to totally dominate its market continuously against technically superior competition.
Let's look at the N64's innovations.
Analogue stick: copied by Sony within a short period of time.
Rumble Pack: copied by Sony within a short period of time.
Four controller slots built into the system: Featured in all big systems that came afterwards (except Sony for god knows what reason).
What I heard a while back (but haven't heard any more about since) was that nintendo was working on a controller with gyros in it that could sense when you tilt the controller and use that action for game input.
i don't buy it either. i am (or was) a huge nintendo fan (look at my user name), but this is the same line they used 5 years ago before unveiling gamecube and the controller and mario sunshine and whatnot...and what were the great innovations? anaog shouderbutons with a "clik" at the end? i can count the number of games that utilized this effectively on one hand. what was innovative about the launch games for the gamecube? nothing. i'm glad i bought a gamecube for Metroid Prime, Zelda: Wind Waker, Smash Brothers Melee, and Resident Evil Four. There's probably 3 times as many games on Xbox that I'm glad I played through, and Xbox LIVE alone is the reason why i play Xbox (which is sitting to my left in my room) so much more than my Gamecube (which I've cast off into my little brother's room) Of course, Nintendo doesn't care. They get enough money from the idiots like me that they can sucker into buying another console just for the next four awesome Nintendo-exclusive games. For gamers, marketshare matters because that leads to more third party support, and more friends with which you can play....but to Nintendo, as long as they're profitable, they don't care (example: online play).
Right. The only true analog game controller before Nintendo was for slot-car racing. Not that I ever used that feature, hair-pin turns be damned!
Anyone else remember in ancient times (circa 1994 or 5) when Nintendo showed off the AWESOME GRIPPING 3D GRAPHICAL PROWESS of the upcoming Ultra 64 at E3? They were all smiles as the attendees' jaws dropped watching a 3D Mario walking around in a photo-realistic "virtual reality" and other extremely impressive 3D demos (for the time).
Of course, the smiles faded and Nintendo became the laughing stock of the convention when someone pulled up the table skirt to reveal a high-end SGI Onyx running the demos.
Perhaps Nintendo does learn from some mistakes...
Nintendo and Sony are the only ones making money on consoles. If MS didn't have its Windows/Office $$ bankrolling xbox where would they be?
Really, what is there left to copy? MS is more than likely (according to the GDC) tied into development contracts, and a change at this point would ruin their hoped-for Q4 pre-christmas ship date.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
"Costs less than $5 per month" and "Requires broadband" are mutually exclusive, especially when it would involve an upgrade from $10/mo NetZero to $40/mo DSL. And for some customers, there's even a setup fee in excess of $10,000 to cover the cost of moving house, as there's no affordable high-speed, low-latency Internet access available to residential customers in many geographic areas, areas where the next step up from ISDN is a T1.
As for Live! only being a success thanks to Halo 2
What's that about a late-1980s Nine Inch Nails album?
Would you rather pay $20 for an add-on disk or expansion (typical PC tactic) to get a few new maps/cars/weapons/wathever, or $5 to download a new set of maps/cars/weapons/whatever?
"Download"? Don't you mean "rent until my Xbox breaks"? In addition, with an expansion disc, I can play the expansion at another home with an Xbox without having to lug my own Xbox.
Four controller slots built into the system: Featured in all big systems that came afterwards (except Sony for god knows what reason).
Technically Nintendo didn't do that one first.
fortunately for apple, they've consistantly made innovative products and have slowly been *gaining* on the market. nintendo has done neither.
It is 100% backwards compatible with the Gamecube and uses the same development API.
So all this Revolution is is just 1. a GameCube 2 with better graphics and a built-in Wi-Fi chip, and 2. a new controller? This new controller had better be pretty darn revolutionary, or the gaming press will slam Nintendo for underdelivering.
They don't seem to be laughing in fact they said that they are still working on their controller design.
And they haven't told their devs what it's going to be which is causing tonnes of confusion and upset (Maybe what they did with the DS?) stupid thing to do.
And Playstation's features that Nintendo later copied? Optical disk format.
Who copied it from 3DO, who copied it from Sega (Sega CD) and NEC (PC Engine CD).
The only 'mini' disks that provide lower quality then DVD's are UMD or do you see someone seeling movies on Gamecube disks?
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
US videogame sales account for more than those in japan.
But Nintendo just might make more margin per unit in Japan. Japan's copyright laws with regard to audiovisual works (motion pictures and video games) are stricter than those of the United States, and resale or rental of genuine copies of video games requires the authorization of the copyright owner. Therefore, sellers of used games probably don't exert so much of the pricing pressure on the Japanese market that forces publishers to price older U.S. games at budget levels (see Player's Choice).
and, if Kingdom Hearts 2 lives up to the first, I might not be able to live without that series either, though they can't do as much with it since it has to reuse the same Disney characters
There are a load of Disney-owned properties that weren't covered in KH. For instance, Square could set the second game in Miramaxland, one of the objectives being to kill Bill.
Nintendo has said that they're showing it at E3. They EXPLICITLY said they will have it at E3, but are deciding whether to have it playable or not.
Every big rumor site disagrees about Nintendo not showing at E3 (see Spong). It's only rumors running around that Nintendo won't be there; and there is absolutely NO official sources involved.
I don't believe it.
Well, Conker is not exactly for kids but has a childish, cartoony feel. It really seems to have an identity crisis.
Two words: Adult Swim. This block of programming on Cartoon Network is #1 for its time slot among men age 18-34. This bodes well for the next Conker game.
As far as I know, no NGC games exist with more than two discs. And the only ones I know of with two discs are Tales of Symphonia and Baten Kaitos (both RPGs). (There probably are more though, that I just don't know about.)
And in my opinion, both are great games. I've spent many hours at Baten Kaitos, and since getting ToS on Sunday (only managed to get some extra cash for it recently), I've played 7 hours, in-between school and other things. And neither of those games uses a huge amount of FMV sequences.
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."
The new Zelda looks good, but it should have been what we saw originally
"What we saw originally" was Super Smash Bros. Melee. Compare the earliest dolphin footage from SSBM's opening sequence.
I want a Real Mario game.
Sunshine is the spiritual successor to SM64.
1) You're engaging in rampant speculation about something you know nothing about and are not in a position to know anything about.
2) You are basing said speculation, in part, on "data" from IGN.
God help you.
I love how I can play games on my PS2 with Toy Story quality graphics....oh wait.
Oh wait, Toy Story for Super NES had (pre-rendered) Toy Story quality graphics.
Nintendo made Katamari?
Katamari DamaSy has been announced.
Lumines?
Premiered on PSP, but it's coming to GBA, from gbadev.org.
Looking at me I mainly play online games
Looking at you you're in the minority. Not even 10 percent of Xbox consoles are Live.
Can I play my own music tracks on the game?
Why can't I play Pretty Hate Machine as background music for the sequel to MS Bungie's Halo?
So, is PS3 going to be illegal to export to china just like PS2 was? Or is it just going to get classified as a "super computer"?
The Farewell Tour II
Nintendo is practically the R&D department for Sony and Microsoft. They should just cut them a check for a percentage of their great ideas.
And that's why Nintendo is more aggressively seeking U.S. patents, so that it can get such a royalty check.
are you too nearsighted to respect something like Pikmin, which creates a new genre?
Are you confusing Pikmin with Dune 2, which created the RTS genre? Pikmin was a good RTS, a different RTS, but not the first RTS.
Maybe it's got a built in lazy susan, the obvious next step in the evolution of the paddle controller.
The Farewell Tour II
4 ports, wow
heres my better solution, plug controller 3 into controller 2, plug controller 4 into controller 1.
And maybe plug #5 into #3 and so on. Just like a big-ass multi-path serial extender.
No need for 4 ports on the machine, save manufacturing and put all the effort into the 200% profit margin controllers.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
PSP doesn't have "several" great games, Lumines is the only unqualified success.
Damn right. Rumor has it that it's being ported to the GBA though.
And by that same rationale, Sony and Nintendo offerings are not free when they require a $10/mo Netzero account or a $40/mo DSL line. The price of access is considered a given here, as if you don't have broadband because you can't or won't pay for it, the $5 doesn't matter (and if you do have broadband but can't afford the extra $5/mo, one wonders how you can afford broadband at all?).
And the part you conveniently didn't quote from my post acknowledged the fact that requiring a broadband connection limits the market. At the same time, PS2 has many broadband-only games even though a dialup modem is available for that console, and I highly doubt Nintendo's Revolution will provide dialup support (I don't know, I haven't seen any anouncements so I could be wrong, but it seems like a bad idea to me; maybe that's just me being an elitist broandband-subscriber. I'm evil!). I played Quake 1 and such back in the day on a dialup connection, and I wouldn't go back. The frustration factor is high enough that I wouldn't bother. Were I stuck on dialup, I wouldn't play any online games. But then, I'm not into self-flagellation, either.
Huh? I don't listen to NIN, so whatever point you were trying to make was lost. I'll just assume you were trying to say I have a hole in my head, or something. Of course, you also conveniently glossed over my points, such as the growth of Live! subscriptions in a pre-Halo 2 market.
"Buy a DVD"? Don't you mean "rent until my DVD is scratched to hell or breaks"? Two can play at that game. Oh yeah, downloadable content is transferable in some cases. If your Xbox breaks and it's replaced rather than repaired, you do not have to pay again for the content download (may require a support call, but it's possible to do). I have no idea what happens if you don't go through official channels when your Xbox breaks (for example, rather than calling the Xbox support number and sending it in for repair or replacement, you just go to the store and replace it yourself). I assume that you can still transfer the data (again, perhaps with a phone call to support), but I don't know because I haven't had to do that. By that same token, you're not allowed to install disc-based expansion packs on multiple computers (read your EULA some time). Whether you agree with that or not, the Xbox Live! method of content delivery just enforces that already existing restriction a bit more strictly.
Maybe I'm living in a different world, but I've never really felt the need to go to someone else's house to play a game I already own. Now, I have lugged my Xbox and spare TV to other places for Halo LAN parties, but that's not really the same thing, is it?
nintendo was working on a controller with gyros in it that could sense when you tilt the controller and use that action for game input.
If a tilt controller were the big "revolution", then why didn't Sony and Microsoft copy it sometime after the release of frickin' Kirby Tilt n Tumble?
If they do a gyro in it , they can still fake a spec/design so that it will still work.
ie, tilting for plane sims
faked as a wheel thing, so the devs can prototype it, but not know about it.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
"heres my better solution, plug controller 3 into controller 2, plug controller 4 into controller 1."
That's called Daisy chaining, it's been done (3DO), and it wasn't popular.
"No need for 4 ports on the machine, save manufacturing and put all the effort into the 200% profit margin controllers."
Tell Sega and Microsoft that.
"Derp de derp."
Ten fingers can count much higher than 10. I can count to 1,023 on ten fingers, but once I get to 4 it can look a bit indecent.
The irony is that Sony had partnered with Nintendo to develop an optical drive for the Super Nintendo, and when Nintendo got cold feet, Sony took what they'd learned and created the Playstation. Microsoft did the same thing, partnering with Nintendo to learn about game system development, but pulled out of the agreement to create their own game system. The main difference is who broke up with whom: Nintendo dumped Sony, causing Sony to create the PS; Microsoft dumped Nintendo, suggesting they went into the relationship with less-than-honest intentions.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
The only thing the DS has that got me to buy it was it's backwards compatibility with GBA games.
Not only that, but with the EFA-Linker (under $100 incl. shipping), you can play a boatload of NES games and many Game Boy games as well. So now the Nintendo DS is compatible with GBA games and unofficially compatible with many NES and GB games, but Sony couldn't be bothered to include a PS1 emulator with the PSP and uses code signing to prevent the free software community from stepping up.
Imagine if the PSP was big enough to accomodate the PS2 discs. Ugh.
It is. Ooga booga.
The XBOX has one profitable quarter after eleven straight losses, and everyone calls them a success.
but they're making up for it in volume!
Nintendo owns the handheld market. No questions about that. Sony has made the first dent, but the PSP as it is today is too expensive for most people. In anycase, did you actually look at Nintendo's financial results? http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/news/050126e.pdf The overwhelming majority of their sales and profits is from Gameboy, not Gamecube. I own a PS2, Gamecube, and XBox and by far I've bought more games on the PS2 and XBox and recently, more games on the Xbox. After awhile, I just got bored playing the next version of Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc... As for next gen systems, I'll probably get the PS3 and XBox2 and skip on Nintendo. Given their game selection, it doesn't appear that I'm their target audience anyways (30 years old).
"Eh I'm so confused by this. Just 2 days ago I read that Nintendo was going to show clips of the games, but not the actual system. *Rolleyes* In any event, I wouldn't equate that with "we have nothing". Nintendo wouldn't make that bold of risk at the turn of a new generation."
Better yet, who cares at all? You're not going to buy the console either way until it launches anyway. Yes, I know the situation is more complicated than that, with shareholders and such, but as far as actual sales go, they aren't getting any until launch, and if they don't release the specs by launch, something has gone horribly wrong!
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but alot of what I've read on "Revolution" has Nintendo trying to cater to those people that don't play games. I vaguely remember some interview with an exec say something like "Mom will walk by and want to play." Or something.
Point being, I'm thinking talking about Nintendo catering old school, or not catering to the masses, etc. is missing the point of "Revolution." It doesn't sound like it's going to be simply a natural progression of graphics, a different (but very much standard) controller and added internet support like Microsoft and Sony are planning... it's going to be their best effort to get the people that don't play games and never have to play games.
This will probably entail two things that they don't want to show off yet... a weird controller (touchpad, tilt controlled, etc.) that has been rumored and games that will disappoint us the old guard of gaming. In fact, if my predictions are true, they'd be better off unveiling on Oprah than at E3.
Your points are well made. Some issues that remain:
It can be assumed that a family has at least dial-up, but not broadband. You point out that the broadband requirement limits the market. I contend that the broadband requirement limits the market to an unnecessary extent. Some of the Live-only features, such as some games' expansions, don't especially need high speed or low latency. For instance, given what I know of Bemanistyle's simfiles database, a song file in Dance Dance Revolution Ultramix can't be bigger than 10 MB, which is a 40 minute download on dial-up. In addition, some games such as Tetris and Yu-Gi-Oh! are largely turn-based and small-universe and wouldn't benefit much from low latency.
In addition, consider a touch of service tying. The Xbox division and the MSN division are close to each other on Microsoft's income statement, and I can assume that the Xbox Live setup kit advertises MSN broadband. Requiring broadband for Live, even on games that otherwise wouldn't really need broadband, generates more broadband subscriptions in areas where MSN has a contract with the telco or cable company that has a geographic monopoly or duopoly. In those areas, you need MSN in order to get on Live.
I played Quake 1 and such back in the day on a dialup connection, and I wouldn't go back. The frustration factor is high enough that I wouldn't bother.
Again, not all game genres benefit from broadband as much as first-person shooters do.
I don't listen to NIN, so whatever point you were trying to make was lost
Every official NIN album is assigned a sequential "halo" number. Pretty Hate Machine was Halo 2, Broken was Halo 5, The Downward Spiral was Halo 8, The Fragile was Halo 14, and the numbers in between were largely singles and remix albums. The point here, possibly made better in another one of my comments to this article, was that such a high-profile title as Bungie's Halo 2 for Xbox left out support for custom soundtracks. Whoever decided to ship without that feature deserves a head like a hole.
I've never really felt the need to go to someone else's house to play a game I already own.
It's called having to attend a family gathering and having no ability and/or no right to leave once you get bored. It's also called visiting friends or relatives who aren't allowed (old enough?) to leave the house on their own. Thus it becomes likely that you'll need to bring some game discs with you.
It only took them the better part of 10 years, but there is actually a game that make GOOD use of that click. In EA's MVP 2005 (yeah, they're evil, deal with it) you use the click on the right analog stick to bunt, aiming with the stick while holding it down. Which is really sweet when drag bunting. I'm assuming it works the same way on PS2, as that's how it works on xbox, and it's something that makes the Gamecube version distinctly inferior (besides the all around poor job of porting the controls).
The Farewell Tour II
Piracy... leads to increased sales? Oh, so is that why the Dreamcast pwned their competition? Their copy protection was nonexistant. Sales dried up quick once people realized how trivial it was to copy discs.
Piracy only works to your favor if you're someone like Microsoft, who is happy to let piracy drive their competition out of business, by displacing product sold by the competition with your own. Then, once the market is set and solid on that pirated software, and your competition is virtually dead due to being forced to sell product, stop official support of the old version (bugs & hackers ahoy!) and introduce much more stringent copy protection methods in new versions, forcing companies to buy your product. Which is substantially more expensive because all your competition is dead.
I don't see how that model remotely applies to game companies turning a profit. Nintendo & Sony sell their hardware at break-even prices. Microsoft sells theirs at a massive loss. Selling hardware isn't going to net any of them a profit, nor will the lost sales of games benefit third parties.
You're grasping at straws here. Nintendo's surge in sales coincided with a huge surge in quality titles being released, both from Nintendo as well as third parties (who sat on the fence at launch time). That has nothing to do with fscking piracy.
Stop trying to rationalize your illegal activities, and just accept reality - you're just another a cheap-ass scumbag who's breaking the law. Even getting on your high horse isn't unique, I've heard the exact same short-sighted hair-brained arguments from 15 year old punks.
You're probably not too far off.
My offhand guess would be something like a power glove with touch feedback.
They seem to be on this big touch thing with the DS and reaching out with WI-FI.
It wouldn't be a big stretch to think they would revamp the power glove.
It would definitely be revolutionary even though as mentioned before, the technology does exist already.
Microsoft and Nintendo never had any type of agreement. Microsoft approached Nintendo about buying them, and Nintendo pretty much laughed at them. Reasons being a) Nintendo is highly profitable, and has been for a long time, so they have no reason to sell the company and b) Microsoft's proposal would've involved killing off the GameCube, which was already far into development.
I don't think microsoft would take that path of copying or modifying their plans based on nintendo but I'm sure sony would.
I find a few statements made by some Slashdot members to be incorrect or misleading. Facts: - Nintendo has USD$10 billion in the bank. In cash. They have more than enough scratch to put on a show at E3. - Nintendo is one of the most innovative (and profitable) companies in existence. During the 1980s, they controlled over 90% of the US market for a time with the NES. The image of Mario is as recognizable worldwide as Mickey Mouse. A few years ago, the company posted their first quarterly loss in history. I would say that if Nintendo doesn't get it right this time and re-assert their previous dominance, they're pretty much done as far as the hardware game is concerned. I'm a long-time Nintendo loyalist; like another posted before me, I also grew up with the Zeldas, Marios, and Donkey Kongs. It's sad to see a company that the industry owes so dearly in this kind of shape. I will always respect Nintendo for sticking to their guns (albeit stubbornly at times) and making great games for kids. My biggest beef with the industry now is how the games are a) boring and b) less risky and finally, c) "interactive DVDs". Nintendo's new CEO mentions these points in the 2005 GDK keynote speech. Perhaps a game that is indicative of this trend is the latest Final Fantasy. What happened to good ole fashioned button-mashing gameplay?
Developers care a lot about hardware, though.
What? Released a unix based OS? Contributed to the Open Source movement? Contributed to standards rather than using proprietry formats?
The Atari 2600 had an analog trackball controller for games like Missile Command and Centipede in addition to the paddle controller you're referring to.
The default Atari 5200 controller was an analog controller as well as any joystick for the Apple II or PC made at that time.
Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicles, LOTR,...
Actually the Resident Evil 4 Collectors edition has a video disc for the Cube. Haven't tried it yet but willing to share the experience...
First of all, I'm primarily a Mac user, I currently own a GameCube, N64, Nintendo DS, and have owned a PS1; I bought it the day it was released. So let me begin; :)
:) )
:)
Define Poor? Apple has a 92% market share in the digital music arena, how is that poor? Their desktop share, although not on top, is greater than Sonys, even "world wide." Now even with a lower market share Apple rakes in billions and has made profit for years, now how is that poor? I guess when compared to Dell's shares it could be considered poor, but on the other hand when comparing innovation and qualiy to Apple, Dell can easily be construed as poor. So if Apple's share is poor, what does that make Sony who's share is even lower and is getting cremed at their own game? ( You know music playback devices.
Now to ramble on; I don't know where you've been, but Nintendo still has the number one selling portable. Even the DS has "sold more" units then the PSP. Their GC although not on top is still doing well. And what's with this "Mario Paint" comment? Your whole comparison of Apple's lower desktop share with Nintendo and marketing doesn't seem to add up. Are you saying that marketing is not good for computer sells? If so, then look at Dell and than take a look at Intel, two marketing machines that sell very well. Sony also fits this category, as does any business that wants to, well stay in "business." I'm still a bit confused as to what you're trying to convey though with this Nintendo/Marketing/Apple jumbo mix???
And about this design comment, are you saying Sony's doing well because of their design? If so I agree, but unfortunately it is all they merrit now days. Besides their pro-equipment most of their consumer quality is crap. There's only so many times you can wrap shite in candy and still expect return customers, who would rather not deal with the hidden shite that plagues so many Sony's products now days. Fortunately Apple has nice design, but also has a great software package to back it up. Sony's products lack big time in that area.
The Playstation was a joke!!! Are you kidding, it sold like crazy when it was first released. I worked for an unamed game company at that time and practially everyone that worked there bought one. I honestlly don't know anyone that considerd it a joke, nor did not own one from the beginning. But on the other hand, I'm probably the only one that does not own a PS2. I'm personally sick of all monotonous re-hashed 3D games that plague so many systems now days.
I look forward to Nintendo'as next offering. In some ways they're the same Nintendo that we grew up with, but in others they are trying to break the mold that has confined so many other game systems. As an example, I really respect the potential that the DS can offer. But anyways, kudos to Sony for its nice------ "design" on the PSP.
And this is why I respect Nintendo. In today's world of companies making promises that they can't keep, Nintendo continues to remain honest. For example, when they released the information on the GameCube's max number of polygons per second, they gave a number that reflected what you would see in a real-world application, while the specs for the PS2 and the Xbox were pretty much the highest number they could get under extremely specific circumstances.
If anything, Nintendo underhypes their consoles. While this ensures that people will not be disappointed when they compare what they hear with what they get, people will see the higher (probably lab setting) specs of the other systems and go for them. What really bothers me is that people seem to be choosing games and gaming systems based on graphics alone. Sure the PS2 has a lot more games than the gamecube. Unfortunately, a large percentage of them are (for lack of a better word) crap.
I mean, what are these people comparing it too? Not many game developers (because that's what Nintendo is, primarily) have a track record like theirs.
Should I care whether Nintendo makes money on it and Sony loses? No, I shouldn't. Who cares about the fiscal responsibility of the company? We're talking about things from a consumer's perspective. If a company jams a bunch of things (that I might actually use, I might add) and it loses them money, that's my gain. The more stuff they put in there, the better off I am. If they cut features out, it may save them money, and they may make more money per unit sold, but that really kind of hurts me, doesn't it?
Unless you're holding stock in any of these companies, please drop the "company x makes money on their products and company y doesn't" shit. That doesn't have one damn bit to do with what I should buy. A smart consumer will buy the product they like the most, with the most features. Anything else is just you trying to justify your misplaced love for a company that really doesn't care 2 shits about you.
Ever actually own a gamecube?
ever actually marvel at the fact that it'll fit damn near anywhere?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
SNES games still look fantastic to day, PSX games look unplayable.. work it out from there..
That's got a little more to do with 2D games aging better than 3D games, I'd say, than Nintendo. Example of PSX game that is perfectly playable (even downright pretty) to this day: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. This is also the reason that GB games age better. Graphics weren't as much of a selling point on a lot of those old 2D games, gameplay was.
This is actually the reason that the DS makes me somewhat sad. The GBA really was the last great refuge for the 2D gamer.
See, if your favourite genre happens to fall squarely into the Mario/Zelda/whatever-cheap-hack-on-the-same-engine category, then I can see how you'd be happy. But please don't assume that _everyone_ has the exact same tastes you do.
My favourite genre however are CRPGs and I fucking _hate_ 3D jump-and-runs. (And no, the Zeldas are _not_ RPGs.) So Mario and Zelda never did anything for me.
I liked the SNES, because that's where the RPGs were at. The N64 on the other hand was the start of my contempt for Nintendo. Over its awfully long life span it had exactly _one_ (debatably) RPG, and even that one was not published in Europe. The Gamecube falls in the same category too: looking at its lineup of games really doesn't do anything for me.
And Nintendo's arrogant "we have all the games we need, it's Sony who'll go bankrupt for publishing lots of games" attitude also didn't help. Here I had an N64 catching dust, with one game published every 2-3 months and even that one some jump-and-run I didn't want. And Nintendo is telling me that that's all the games they need.
I started just hating Nintendo at that point.
"I think people take cheap shots at them because they don't want to admit that "kiddy games" such as Zelda: Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine are a lot more fun to play than those hack and slash "grownup" games."
Ah, a conspiracy theory. Some world-wide conspiracy made everyone say they dislike Nintendo's games, even though they really like it. Think about it for a little, and I think you'll realize how silly that theory is.
No, some of us just honestly have other tastes in games, and don't find Nintendo's games to be any fun. At all. It's not about being "kiddy games", it's simply about everyone liking a different kind of a game:
Nintendo catters to a niche, at the expense of ignoring everyone else. By the sound of it, you are in that niche market. Good for you. I can see how you'd be happy with Nintendo's games then. Most people however fall outside that niche, which is why it's a niche.
"My buddies tease me about it, but who isn't having fun playing Mario Kart or Mario Party?"
I don't. I very much prefer a real racing _simulation_, like Gran Turismo.
It's not about it being Mario or Nintendo or "kiddie". The whole pseudo-racing-while-throwing-crap-at-each-other genre just doesn't do anything for me. That includes the PSX/PS2/whatever games in that category. And includes the SF/cartoon-license/whatever games, not just the "kiddie" ones.
"Who doesn't like to drop a bomb bug on their enemies pikmin and blow 'em to bits?"
I don't. Honestly. If I want to blow things to bits, I load a proper strategy game. E.g., "Rome: Total War".
"Who doesn't think the storyline to Windwaker is interesting?"
Even if I didn't mind the story as such, the implementation does nothing for me. I mean, Daikatana's story wasn't the bad part about it either. Stil, that didn't make it game of the year or anything.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Fanboys for the competition hate to hear it, but for a long time (several years), the game with the highest poly count on a console was a GameCube launch title: Star Wars Rogue Squadron III: Rogue Leader.
This game is capable of maintaining smooth animation in progressive scan, as well. In fact, it was due to this game that other developers realized that the GameCube was capable of far, far more than Nintendo had originally claimed. But the fanboys? No, you'll still find some fool out there with a comparison chart that reads, "GameCube - 12 million polys/sec, PS2 - 66 million polys/sec, OMG!!!" And they will be as satisfied as pigs in shit to play their jaggy, stuttering PS2 games in lower framerate on their friends' PS2s, because their own PS2s are at SCEA being fixed for DREs. But that's another story.
Tell me. What does "purple" smell like in _your_ world?
In this day and age, is the hardware platform any relevant to a game being successful? if Nintendo made outstanding games, then they would have sold by the bucketloads on any console. Why does Nintendo have to have their own dedicated hardware? it does not make sense anymore.
### but how many multi-disc Gamecube games have there been?
All the three ResidentEvils have been multi-disc and MetalGear is multi-disc too. Since those are among the few bigger third-party titles out there for Gamecube it clearly shows that those mini-discs are not enough for everybody. Sure, Nintendo games never used more then one disc, but third partys seem to have quite a bit more throuble to keeping there data small. I can live with them not using DVDs, after all DVD players far superior to what a PS2 can provide are cheap, but having a medium large enough to not requiring disc changes would be quite nice. Same can be said about the memory cards, which are also quite tiny, especially when compared to 256mb or even 512mb flash cards which I can get at basically the same price these days.
I got a DS for my birthday, and I love it. The thing is, I'm not normally a console gamer, but a PC gamer (barely even that lately, I've been really disenchanted with the mainstream gaming industry). I think the DS is much more accessible and interesting to people like me.
My girlfriend *hates* games. Hates them with a passion. Thinks they are boring and pointless.
She has played my DS more than I have.
The DS is really accessible, even to non traditional gamers. The touch screen interface for a handheld gaming unit is great. Playing games with it is so simple. It also acts as a great mouse device for games like Metroid (i've never been able to play a FPS on a console with such ease).
Yeah the graphics aren't up to scratch compared with the PSP. But the bottom line is, the DS is *fun*. And not just to traditional gamers. I think it opens up new possibilities.
And unlike some others posting here, I don't think that every game has to make use of the touch screen to feel "complete". Not every style of game is suitable to a touch screen interface, e.g. mario kart (although it could use the bottom screen as an analog control (optional), like ridge racer) or fighting games.
I think people should cut Nintendo some slack. If they keep going in this direction, I will be buying my first (non-handheld) console ever, with the revolution.
-- The doctor said I wouldn't get so many nose bleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!
Actually, you can burn Cube games on standard 8cm DVD-R disks just fine, and they will work perfectly once booted through one of the alternate BIOSes (Cobra/Anaconda/GCOS). You don't even need a modchip; the Action Replay exploit or the PSO exploit can be used to boot Anaconda or GCOS entirely in software.
You can even burn them on ordinary 12cm DVD-Rs if you take the top off the cube so that 12cm ones fit..
### they could capture some console market and then facilitate for the same apps to be released on Linux
Just because something has written 'Linux' on it doesn't mean it will be compatible with something else that has 'Linux' written on it too. If any console developer ever creates a Linux based console, I am pretty sure that it will be rather incompatile to any Linux you can run on the PC. Sure you might find Emacs and Firefox ported to the console-linux, but console-games will never run on your PC linux, custom drivers, custom hardware, different CPU architecture, copy protected disc format and the like will make sure that a PC won't make much use of the games.
Just look at Linux for the PS2, first of it didn't had any games being based on it, ok it wasn't build for it, and secondly it was so tight locked that you couldn't even access the memory cards of your PS2. With WindowsCE on the Dreamcast its the same, its kind of there, but many games bypass it and no Dreamcast game ever was playable on your PC Windows.
> except Sony for god knows what reason
Most people are happy with one or two ports. Two ports cheaper than four. People who want to use 4 ports are prepared to pay the small extra cost for an adaptor.
If you think you can live off selling games for a console whose market share is shrinking fast, tell that to Sega. They were at that point once too: all Dreamcast owners were happily buying Sega's games, but not many people were actually buying a new Dreamcast unless Sega gave it away almost for free. (Partially _because_ of lack of 3rd party support and whole genres being completely absent until the last few months.)
Ask them how well their Dreamcast did in that situation. Oh, wait, it didn't. Sega dropped the Dreamcast and exitted the console market completely.
Nintendo isn't as profitable as you think in the non-portable console market. Most of their money comes from the lucrative gameboy market, where, surprise, they do have 3rd party support. So if your big hopes for Nintendo include screwing up in that market too, by driving away the developpers, you might just see Nintendo go the way of Sega.
See, 3rd party support isn't that bad a thing as you assume. Those 3rd party developpers for Sony and MS actually have a positive effect on Sony's or MS's income:
1. Sony _does_ make some money (and in fact good money) out of each game sold for their system, even if it's from a third party developper. In case you wondered why a new PS2 game costs more than a new PC game, that's why: that difference goes directly into Sony's bank account. And
2. More titles means more people buying their consoles, which means more people buying the games, _and_ more games they can sell to each PS2 owner. Which drives up the income from the previous paragraph pretty much quadratically.
The reason Nintendo did well was basically that they sell cheap stuff, _not_ that it's so profitable to lack 3rd party support. Their consoles have the cheapest hardware of all contenders, and their games have two digit polygon counts. That's cheap to make, so you need to sell less of them to make a profit.
But if their market share shrinks far enough, even that may well become non-profitable.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Clever signature text goes here.
No, they didn't. Media speculation.
What they did say at GDC 2005 is that Revo will be backwards-compat with Cube. How, precisely, would they do that without a D-pad and buttons, do you think?
Amen.
You know, if you were REALLY bashing your head on the keyboard, you would get a lot more spaces.
Sony bleeding cash due to the PSP will matter to you when they announce they are stopping production and developers abandon it.
"...They provide lower quality..."
If it is lower quality, then why did they have to lower the polygon count on the PS2 port of Resident Evil 4? Maybe because it doesn't matter how much information you can cram on the disc; it only matters what the system can handle.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
My sibling post already mentioned Resident Evil and Metal Gear, but those aren't the only ones. The two best RPGs on the Cube (Tales of Symphonia and Baten Kaitos) are multidisk as well.
I may be a little fuzzy about this, but I thought one of the main points of Sony deciding to use proprietary UMDs was to minimize piracy on the PSP? But yet people complain about it constantly?
I agree with you. I would also like to add that I think with this generation of consoles, we are going to get more of a feeling that console hardware has reached a "good enough" state that the next next generation is not going to be so highly anticipated. I already have this feeling about this upcoming generation- I am looking forward to it, but I am not sitting on the edge of my seat nor do I forsee buying one for at least a year after it releases.
Personally, the PS2 is almost "good enough" for me. Aside from the late 90's era "jaggies" that you see in games, I think the graphics are damn good. I have never on any PS2 game said to myself "ugh, that looks like crap". Considering the level of photorealism now achieved, I just do not see how I am going to be completely wowed by this generation of consoles like I have previously. I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised though.
Oh they will. Or have you all forgot how insidiously devious their marketing department is? Remember Zelda last year?
Nintendo knows it's either this year's E3 or they start preparing to go 3rd party within a few years. And they haven't forgotten the humiliating showing two years ago, when they featured Pac-man of all things.
I think they're milking this media underdog thing for all it's worth.
random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
h bv b v bb v bhb
Regards,
Mike
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
Well actually every Gamecube game has been pirated to date, but yes.. they usually do not show up on torrent networks as much as PS2/XBOX games.
Which is why Nintendo is working on shedding the "kiddy" image. I don't know who even uses the argument anymore and really believes it, but Nintendo realized a while back that blood in a game isn't going to hurt console sales.
And the point of defending "kiddy" games is the fact that a lot of us prefer the attention put into gameplay detail, instead of blood spray pattern detail or the boob jiggle detail.
The thing about adult games is, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Playing the open-ended field for someone like me (a la Grand Theft Auto) just gets boring. After shooting a street full of mobsters and stealing that mustang ripoff for the twentieth time, it just isn't fun anymore. On the flipside, you have your espionage games (Splinter Cell and Metal Gear) that are intensely fun, and your shooters (which go either way).
See, those of us who defend "kiddy games" against those who proclaim "bloody games" to be the best notice that a lot of those who defend "bloody games" defend even the bad ones. I'll admit that I like games from both camps, but if someone flat out says that they prefer a bad GTA ripoff with no thought put into any of it over something crazy fun like Smash Brothers, I'm going to laugh in their face and assume they are a fanboy. Simple as that.
Ah, this talk reminds me of kkrieger: takes up 96k diskspace but requires 512MB ram, a 1.5GHz processor, etc.. :D (requires DirectX 9.0b)
.. physical disc size.
"lower quality" is a silly 'argument' for
Having been a long time member of the gaming media, and beginning at the Atari 2600 I generally have a finger on the pulse of the industry and I think things are about to change. This is a bit counter to the common opinion and even though the DS seems a bit flat I personally am starting to become bored with the current state of Sony and MS.
Videogames were never about wowing hardware specs. and that is all that is pushing Sony and MS into the "Next Gen" consoles. Nintendo is the only company staying out of this arms race and concentrating on innovation. I don't want to be playing Gran Turismo 8 on the PS3 and GTA 7 I want innovation and fresh new ideas. Katamari Damacy proved the success of innovation on PS2, and while it does exist on these two platforms, Nintendo has the track record of fresh new ideas in games and interfaces (even though there are the same parallels to be drawn with Zelda, Mario, etc. they all tend to be new and fresh each time out of the gate)
Coming from someone who never purchased anything past the SNES and GBA from Nintendo, my feelings are changing quite rapidly toward the Revolution. I think it is finally going to reach a point where gamers are ready for a change, and I think that time is closer than most think. I want Nintendo to succeed, I want gameplay and attention to detail to reign supreme, and it isn't going to happen with the PS3 or Xbox 360 they are just beefed up editions of what is available now playing the same games and the same franchises with little to no advances aside from graphics.
I'm ready for a revolution after covering Sony for 10+ years.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
I sort of rubbed my forhead around too. ^_^
Outside of arcades, I believe the first 4-player setup was on the NES.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
for DVD playing! I can't f'ing believe that they would throw out hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue by keeping the console from being used as a dvd player for a second/kids bedroom . They're idiots! and for preventing game copying, I know so many people who got a ps1/ps2/xbox with the intention of copying games, and then realized that it was actually work! and just bought the games anyway. It's the CONCEPT that you can pirate games that sells consoles! First the N64 debacle, now a stupid console that can't play DVD's, making a parent's choice easy to get a PS2, thereby saving money on the kids entertainment center. Idiots!!!!!
"But the dreams came on in the Japanese night like livewire voodoo..." - William Gibson I'm a signature virus. Please c
they'll look better if they get game studios to "commit" to thier console and thus we may never see what some developers really had to offer the pc.
Nintendo hasn't really done this, and they've been pegged for making a lot of "first-party" games and lacking good third-party games.
Some people believe 1-1=3 and for the sake of being politically correct, we should respect their differences
"When I was a kid. I never understood why grownups stopped watching cartoons."
Well, I never did stop.
"Who wants to sneak around with a square head with a "Realistic" face painted on?"
I don't. I pick games where that doesn't happen.
"Who wants to fall asleep while playing a game with a depressing and slow storyline?"
I don't. I look for games with an interesting story that keeps me interested until the end. Any other questions?
"Kiddy or not, I have fun."
Bingo. So do I. Just not with the same games.
"I never wanted to grow up to be some boring fella who could only find enjoyment in boringness."
Well, here's the thing you can't seem to get into your head: some of us don't find those other genres boring at all. Some of those games I've used as examples count on _my_ scale, around the point of "most fun one can have with the clothes on." And conversely, we too find _your_ favourites to be the epitome of boring brain-damage.
(Which is actually the whole point of why Nintendo loses market share: you can't just tell people to stop liking something and start liking something else. They keep giving me only stuff I find boring, I won't buy it.)
E.g., as I've said before, I actually went and bought both N64 Zeldas. I was bored out of my skull in 10 minutes flat. I still remember how idiotic, pointless and boring I found it in Ocarina Of Time to jump around on stuff, using flowers as propellers. Or take Mario 64 or Donkey Kong 64. WTF is supposed to be fun about pointlessly jumping on stuff like a retard? I got bored stiff in minutes. Etc.
The difference is that I can understand that different people have different tastes: what's fun for me might be boring for you, and viceversa. It's just normal. I'm not telling you that your tastes are boring and wrong because they don't match mine. While you seem stuck in the notion that only your tastes are right, and you can just proclaim everyone else's tastes wrong.
Which is like if I came saying that everyone should like the taste of milk (because I do) and hate apples (because I do). I mean, hey, everyone must have the same tastes I have right? Nobody can possibly actually like apples, or be lactose intollerant, right? I like to think you can see what's wrong with that kind of a notion.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Where are the Xbox and Sony games that bend my mind?
Lifeline for PS2
Katamari Damacy (as has been pointed out. Yes, I know it's slated for the DS, but it's on PS2 NOW.)
Parapa the Rapper was a bit of fun for me (I only played the demo).
Microsoft has some excelent games studios, fortunatly, most of their best stuff is for the PC, not the X-Box (Close Combat, anyone?)
That's also not to say that there aren't excelent games on the X-Box too such as Crimson Skies (I love flight sims, even the more casual, non-realistic ones. Where's Pilotwings GC, Nintendo?)
But your point is correct. Most of the experimental, quirky, "mind bending" games are more likley to land on Nintendo, or just be developed by Nintendo, than any of the others out there.. It's just not that the other platforms are completly VOID of innovation.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
There are more than a few software companies that would love to be bought out for a retirement price (ie, the owners get to retire), but that is just one of the things that happens in reality. I'd do it if I could. It doesn't mean they don't care about their product, just that really, how many of us would work if we didn't have to so that we could eat etc.
I don't think game development on the PC is going to dry up. It's is probably the simplest platform on which to develop. Originality on the other hand, will suffer. It is the same really across all industries. Look at how many FPS games there are, how many movies are the same, what really is the difference between a Denny's and a Perkins? Once companies develop what the public buys, they milk it to death and don't like to take chances. Sadly, usually they are proven right.
Development of originality is generally left to the smaller companies, if they make a splash, they will be assimilated - for a price. It has ever been thus. I will say this for nintendo though, generally, their games are more fun.
I'm not implying anything about the consoles themselves, just where they fit, I personally prefer Xbox games to GC ones)
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
You know, they have enough of a sense of humor that this could be exactly what revolution means. I never even thought of that.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
Sure I would gladly welcome a post suggesting that Nintendo should use Eniac as its platform.
All I am saying is that I am tired of the invasion of the Mac fanboys here. It doesn't matter whether its Linux, BSD, Apple, Windows or whatever. Any post saying "they should just use this and everything would work properly" is stupid. If I have to hear another "why would you do this? all you need is a Mac mini" I'm going to vomit. And then to see posts like that modded +5 insightful just illustrates the high volume of dweebism that persists in the Slashdot community.
"Whining about it does nothing except prove that your testicles have gone missing."
And I guess posting as Anonymous Coward is the proper way of displaying how big your balls are?
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I think the main complaint was specifically about the rumble being a standard controller feature. If you had to buy an add-on device to do it for N64, it really wasn't "standard", was it? Sony is actually the first company to make it a standard controller feature, AFAIK.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
and with a related consumer product (the Gameboy) whose design has managed to totally dominate its market continuously against technically superior competition.
Superior is a matter of perspective. Many people find that the single critical characteristic of a portable is battery life, and in that characteristic Nintendo has never been challenged.
Consider that that's almost the only characteristic on which they've maintained a lead, and that they've been wholly dominant the entire time. Coincidence or correlation? You can probably guess what I believe.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
"f you had to buy an add-on device to do it for N64, it really wasn't "standard", was it?"
:)
Fair point, but it depends on how you look at it. I mean, was the memory card a standard feature? None of the systems came with one. Nintendo marketed the RP well. It came with a popular game, and it was used enough that it was weird for somebody not to have one.
In the sense of it being pack in, I think you're right, Sony was first with the PS2. The DC had it, too, but it was a peripheral. (A popular peripheral, but a peripheral none-the-less.)
Yes, the definition of 'standard' is blurry the way I used it. Hopefully my view is clarified.
"Derp de derp."
The Colecovision pad was digital as well.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Atari: Warlords, and I think Combat.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
The Atari 2600 featured quite a few 4-player paddle games (a pair of paddles plugs into one controller slot). There may be earlier examples, but that's the earliest one I know about.
How is being roughly the same as Xbox in market share "low"? or is the Xbox also an apple of a different color?
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
true, but I was just commenting on the fact that if nintendo did go with standard size DVDs, it wouldn't have the same footprint it has now.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
And don't forget that GameCube games are the least pirated games of all the current systems. This is mainly because:
A. It's next to impossible to get mini DVD-Rs (Although I saw some for sale the other day in an ad, and that's the first time I've ever seen them available)
B. Nintendo uses a non-standard format for burning the data onto the disk, so a computer reading the data probably wouldn't understand it.
That's certainly a valid way to look at it, and I would mostly agree. Of course, that perspective might negate some of your other points about Nintendo innovations, like with analog and multiple controller ports (ex: Mario64 was developed using the already created Saturn analog joystick). :D
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
And how about people not measure their e-penis about what kinds of games they play. I play everything from Halo 2 and Grand Theft Auto to Wind Waker and Katamari Damancy, and I'm sick of people on one side of the spectrum taking pot shots at the other. Seriously, shut the hell up, we don't care that the Gamecube is kiddy or the Xbox is for MATURE GAMERS LOL or that the PS2 is THE GAING PLATFORM OF CHOICE or that PC's are for SOPHISTICATED gamers, just shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!!!!
I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
The AC parent nailed it dead on. I've been in the industry for nearly seven years now, and I have some very close friends who work at Nintendo HQ. They have flat out told me that many of the game publishing companies expect Nintendo to come along with a dumptruck of money, and basically pay them in order to make GC games. Why? Because that's what Microsoft does in order to get XBox support. MS has had to bribe everyone in the industry in order to get the amount of third party games onto the shelves that they have. (And, well, it seems to have worked!) But as a result, the XBox division has posted alot of losses since it was started. Yeah, a good portion of it is hardware costs, but don't underestimate the bribery factor. Microsoft is the only company in the world with enough money to buy their way into anything... and they sure bought their way into the video game biz. Sony apparently does some incentives for the big players, but because PS2 games sell tons of units due to the installed base, there's already quite a compelling business case for develpoing PS2 games.
Anyways, back to Nintendo. Rumor has it that the 'cube was making $$$ the first day it was on sale. No one can say that about PS2 or XBox. I was rather impressed. I wouldn't be suprised if the DS and Revolution follow the same path. Nintendo plays by a different set of rules than their competitors, and it looks to me like they will keep the money coming in.. with or without the support of the rest of the industry. Guess we'll see.
People complain about UMD not necessarily because it's proprietary, but because Sony is attempting to use its proprietariness to re-sell you the same movies and music you've already bought on cassette, CD, video cassette, and DVD.
... I think I just confused myself.
If the PSP only played games, and UMD was a games-only format, I don't think people would care. But because the PSP plays movies and music, and Sony is attempting to make UMD a new general multimedia format (for the purpose of re-selling you what you already bought, or else they would have players/recorders available for it for you to convert what you have already bought), people complain.
When everything becomes incompatable?
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