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Discuss the US Presidential Election
We made it. It's election day. Tomorrow we'll know. So for today's election discussion story, I'm throwing it wide open: let's discuss the election itself. Who are your picks and why. And also what about your actual experience voting today? Did Diebold eat your vote or did everything go off without flaw?
... that I'm happy that it will be over at goddamn last.
FiveThirtyEight.com jacked up Obama's odds of winning to 98.1%
I like those odds.
MABASPLOOM!
I am actually surprised McCain didn't try to switfboat this election. He ran a very negative campaign, no doubt, but it seems he at least had the decency not to blast his fellow Senator with inflammatory false accusations in the final hours.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Galt's Gulch: those who know, know. Discuss.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Obama- He's my pick. He might seem socialist- but I don't think anybody can top ol' G.W. these days. I personally want what's good for society. After the past 8 years of crapping on society, killing the economy, and ruining our constitution- it's time for a change. I don't see that change in McCain.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
I'm voting for Obama and proud of it. How often do you get a chance to support a candidate that not only uses technology to its fullest potential, but also runs a positive campaign based not on mudslinging and personal attacks, but on a REAL platform?
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
Voted in western IL about 20 minutes ago. No lines (but lots of people), 8 polling booths, paper ballots filled out with a marker. A rather menacing-looking Diebold machine increased its displayed tally when I fed it my ballot.
All in all I hope everyone's voting experience was as painless as mine.
End of lesson. You may press the button.
... now cue the flames.
Went fine and no I'm not telling.
Anyway regardless of whom we get in, I'm more concerned for the after.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
I wrote the following for the blog I recently started ... I come at Politics from an Anabaptist (radical Christian from the 16th century) perspective, so I spend more time justifying the decision to vote in the first place than justifying who I vote for. The blog's at <a href="http://digitalscriptorium.info/">http://digitalscriptorium.info/</a> if you're interested.
--
So, here we are two days short of the election, and I suppose it's finally time for me to make up my mind. I often waver between three choices rather than the usual two:
1. I can not vote at all.
2. I can vote for Obama.
3. I can vote for McCain.
Let me state at the outset that my natural predisposition is not to vote at all. That is the choice that I've taken in the last 3 elections, and a goodly part of me wants to continue the tradition.
Now that I've offended all right-minded and morally straight Christians, in Ameirca and beyond, I hope you'll stick with me long enough to hear why, because my reasoning on this subject will inform my ultimate decision in this election. I believe that, as a Christian, I owe my primary allegiance to the Kingdom of God, and that that allegiance is fundamentally at odds with the purposes of secular government. As Philippians 3.20 says: "our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ." I believe that it is no accident that here (as elsewhere) Paul borrows political imagery to describe the church--the church is, in fact, an alternative power structure that should fundamentally subvert traditional power relationships.
Now, I can already see some who will read this jumping up and down, raising their hands, and dying to say, "but we can be citizens of the kingdom of God and citizens of the United States!" Any second now, someone will bring up Romans 13 and think that they've proved me wrong. The problem with this sort of interpretation is that it reads back the political situation of the 4th century into the first, by assuming that Christian participation in government was a real possibility that Paul envisioned in the first century. Let's be clear here: first century Christians were not the rulers, they were the ruled. The issue at hand in the first century was whether Christians should submit to secular government, not whether they should join it. Paul's admonition to make prayers for kings (1Timothy 2.2) is not given so that they may be successful in their secular purposes, but so that the church may live at peace.
There is a reason to suppose that this sharp division between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of God is necessary, which is scripturally attested both in secular political science and in scripture. Scripture first:
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here." (John 18.36)
Notice the contrast: there are two sorts of kingdoms. One comes from this world, and (we might say by extension) depends on worldly methods, that is, violence. The other comes from somewhere else, and seems to render violence not so much unnecessary as irrelevant. That is scripture's description of the kingdom of God. Contrariwise, scripture describes the politics (or kingdom) of this world in Romans 13, where world rulers are described as the servants of God "to execute wrath on the wrongdoer." (Romans 13.4b) But these wrongdoers are, to Paul, outside the church. Paul elsewhere envisions the church as having its own judicial function, whose sole sanction is expulsion from the church--see 1Corinthians 5.9-6.8. The division in scripture between the kingdom of this world and the earthly kingdoms is wide, deep, and complete. Our sole relation to them is to "render unto Caesar" by paying taxes, which is the real "take-home point" of Roma
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
As of this morning at 6:50 am there was a line of 2-300 people at our polling place. It makes me happy to see the high turnout, even at that time of day. Now bring on the free ben and jerrys, krispy kremes, and starbucks!
Small town in Iowa. Polls opened at 7am and I was there at 7:15. Polls were only 3 blocks away at local library, so walked. Seemed like everyone in line was excited to vote. Wait in line took about 15 minutes, voting took about 5. Used paper optically scanned ballot, though there was one electronic voting machine for people who felt like gambling.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
We won't know who won the election until the law suits are settled or the inauguration happens first. $0.02
Yeah, right. No false accusations at all.
Good one.
Why pick the lesser evil?
Arg. The link should be http://digitalscriptorium.info/.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
OK - no dumb florida voter jokes! We use old fashion fill in the blob voting sheets. To insure I did not screw it up, I had my 10 yo son fill in my votes.
I voted today in New York State. The poll workers recorded each voter's name and the number the voting machine assigned to his vote. I asked them why and they replied that the board of elections told them to.
What is going on? The board of elections can now see who everybody voted for. I thought we had the right to a secret ballot.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
We're getting sick of the buck getting passed.
I'm not even in a battleground state, and amoung the many messages on my answering machine were two offers of breakfast tacos from & one invite to a bar from the Democrats. Last night I got the a robocall at 10pm after getting back from a trip and going to sleep early- if I hadn't voted early, I probably would have let the call go long enough to figure out who they wanted me to vote for and made sure to vote the opposite.
Voting in Virginia this morning I was pleased to discover that they offered the option of paper voting for those that did not want to use (or trust) the electronic machines. They were actually very encouraging of folks like me that wanted the paper. I'd say at least two-thirds chose paper (by-eye estimate).
There weren't that many more people downtown Chicago as I walked to work (just a few more policemen), but with a million people expected to be in town by the time I get off, all I'm really hoping for is a way to get back home this election day.
I'm curious because he always has a "Dave Barry for President in ####" where "####" is the year of the next election.
I'm wondering how easy it is to get on the ballot.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
I personally hope he is a socialist. It would be nice to see my friends and family back in the US brought up to the quality of life I've found after moving to the Nordic countries.
I hate to be the victor of this election after Bush leaves (if he does). There is going to be a lot to mop up starting with what is left of our Constitution. Unfortunately if things take the turn for the worse, the opposition will have an easy scapegoat in 2012.
You won't really be missed.
I am 57-years old and for all of my life my country has been at war. I voted for the only person that offers peace...Ron Paul
For Obama of course. Who wants to bet?
You just got troll'd!
McCain FTW
"Fails To Win"?
I voted for Kodos.
--I'm not talking about dance lessons. I'm talking about putting a brick through the other guy's windshield.-
We still use the old-school mechanical voting machines here in the Empire State. I love those. A real kerthunk of Electoral Justice.
I showed up to my polling place at 8:15 this morning, and I was the 70th voter at my station. I usually show up at about that time, on my way to work, and I'm normally more like number 20. There's going to be a _lot_ of turnout today.
--saint
Who are your picks and why.
Third party, since I don't like either main candidate. This happened to be Barr, since I figured he probably has the best (but unfortunately still very small) chance of getting enough votes to scare some sense into the duopoly.
And also what about your actual experience voting today?
I got there at almost exactly 7am (when the polls opened), and the line was almost exactly 1 hour (I finished voting and left at 8:05). There were 10 Diebold voting machines lined up along one wall with no privacy screens, just little flaps on the sides.
Did Diebold eat your vote or did everything go off without flaw?
Well, that's kinda hard to know, isn't it? (Some might say that's kinda the point of buying from Diebold.)
...I had the option of either voting by electronic machine or paper ballot. As you might imagine, I chose paper ballot for the simple reason that it leaves unchangeable records. Electronic voting machines are far too easy to manipulate or are far too likely to have glitches. (Especially the Diebold machines based on Microsoft Access.)
The downside is that the Illinois ballots are *bleep*ing insane! First, there's no simple checkbox. Instead, you have these bizarre arrows you have to fill in. i.e.:
You are supposed to draw a line for the vote you want to cast. e.g.:
Which is then complicated by a list of about a bazillion judges to vote in or out of office. No judge runs against another judge, so you simply fill out the arrow or you don't. Incumbent judges have a "Yes/No" option to possibly vote them out of office.
I got up pretty early this morning, so it ended up taking more time to fill out these super-ballots than it did to wait in line. I then went home and listened to WGN ponder why it was taking Obama so long to vote for himself. Perhaps someone should show them one of these ballots! :-P
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Diebold doesn't eat "my" vote. Either it eats everybody's vote or nobody's. Either it steals the election or it doesn't.
I find your intolerance intolerable.
It's outstanding how in an election where I didn't start off hating either candidate, McCain's choice of talking points (and running mate) brought me to the point of incoherent spitting fury...I had to read the transcripts of the last few debates because I couldn't stand to actually listen.
I just refuse to vote for someone who ran a filthy campaign whose only issue was "the other guy sucks." That's my favorite logical fallacy, the "argument from ignorance": the other guy is bad, so we must be better.
McCain was a guy I'd have voted for in 2000...Hell, I did vote for him in the primary. And I think this country wouldn't be worse off if he'd been president for the last 8 years. But he sold his soul for the brass ring this time around, and that level of intellectual whoredom I cannot abide.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
...screw these elections of yours, I want to be able to watch the next episode of House MD, dammit!
...
;)
More seriously, I am watching this election closely and dearly hoping that USians will not be as disappointing as in the last two. It's looking good, but I'm wary... Last minute disappointments are not unheard of.
I hope Obama wins, because I'd like to see the US become a good example again, instead of the very bad exemple they've become.
Still, I'm a bit upset to have to wait one more week to know what happens between House and Cuddy.
In Washington, we have mail in paper ballots. I like it for a number of reasons, but the most important of those is that you can sit down and make decisions with a voter information pamphlet.
I didn't vote straight party line... I honestly believe that some mentalities are better suited to different positions. I believe that some contention should exist in government, just not enough to paralyze it. Differing viewpoints more often lead to the truth than one.
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
I remember thinking this on election day 2000
Current polls show 52% think we will know our next President by tomorrow, with a margin of error of +/- 3%.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
There were about 100 people there at 8am this morning when I got to the polls, but it took longer for me to find a place to park than to stand in line to vote. Apparently people started lining up at 7:30. The process was quick and well ordered, which is what paper ballots will do for you. If there's a controversy this year with votes, it's won't be from NH.
Tomorrow we'll know.
You must be new here.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Polls opened at 7:00 AM, I was in line at 6:40 AM. We use "complete the arrow using this marker" paper ballots which are optically scanned. Everything was smooth this morning here in Wisconsin.
Obama only seems socialist if you ignore the 700 billion dollar bailout we handed to businesses - easily the largest act of socialism ever in US history. Oh, it was penned by republicans, too.
I voted for Jay. Not the ideal choice, but still the closest to my beliefs. I'm past the "lesser evil" compromise stage; I now vote only for candidates I like the most.
more than likely yes.... but I see McCain as the less sucky choice.
-Tolerate my intolerance
Called my dad this morning and he said they were in and out in an hour. About 35 people in line but it went fast. He said the poll workers were really helpful and seemed well organized. I'm sure it's not going that well everywhere but the news isn't all bad.
If the Republicans get crushed and lose Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, I wonder if they're going to clean house or keep on with same failed people and platform that put them in the tank? Or if they'll blame Palin and minority turn out?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Election? What election?
I pride myself on keeping apprised of current events, but I wasn't aware of an election today.
Who is running and for what position?
Srsly, whoever this CmdrTaco is who posted the story should at least give us this basic information in the summary.
Unfortunately/Thankfully im not American but id vote for Obama because Linus says so: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/11/black-and-white.html Linus is my president ;) lol
I was thinking the exact same thing- thanks for typing it out and saving me the trouble.
I wanted McCain in 2000 as well- hes been nothing but a disappointment this season.
I was amazed by the wording of some of the proposed amendments to the Florida constitution. One example was the marriage "keep the gays from marrying" proposal. First off, I happen to believe that marriage is a personal issue and has no need for government intervention but that is not my point here. The language was worded very biased, in that it started by stating that passing this amendment would "Protect marriage". As if I voted not my wife would someone stop loving me tomorrow or something. Second, it was the only amendment that ended with an entire paragraph dedicated to informing us voters that if we pass this the economic effect on the budget is "unknown at this time but likely minimal". This was on no other initiative. Holy bias Batman!
"This message was sent from an Apple
most of us know it as the tiny hamlet clser to montreal than anything else in far northern new hampshire that releases its election results shortly after midnight on election day (since there is only 21 people voting there)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixville_Notch,_New_Hampshire#Midnight_voting_tradition
quaint and pointless mostly. this year, they landslided for obama (15 for obama to 6 for mccain)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7707667.stm
why is that notable?
in all previous elections, back to 1968, they landslided republican
so that's an interesting changeup, north country new hampshire, solidly republican, giving us a glimpse of a new trend?
portent of things to come later this evening for the rest of us perhaps?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
She kicked it off last Saturday.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
If McCain is the next president, the world will say "Ya know what? We're done here. Game over. Thanks for playing" and it will hurt (a lot) in the short run, but once the American Empire's wings are clipped, the rest of the planet can set about building a future that works.
Economic? Send the dollars back home. How? Buy up the assets. Devalue the currency. Don't loan them money.
Diplomatic? The USA as a pariah state, sim. N Korea today or Libya back in the day. Turn off the WTO and IMF. Look elsewhere for partnership.
Socially? Don't let Americans out of America. Make travel difficult. Strict Visa reqs, limited visas, etc. Let them know that when they visit, they know they are thought of as ASSHOLES.
The Americans would bitch and moan and threaten and swagger, but since they're basically bankrupt and have dumped a substantial amount of their wealth into non-wealth generating assets (the military, first and foremost) the USA is really at the mercy of the rest of the planet and some. And if some swaggering third rate imperialist like McCain or, godferbid, his delusional retard of a VP, Palin, comes around acting like a dork, the simple and obvious reply is to shun them.
Now, before you think I'm some sort of Obama supporter, you're wrong. Obama is every bit the imperialist that McCain is - it's just that his focus is not on global domination, but on the much more realistic goal of regional domination. In other words, McCain is a unipolar imperialist and Obama is a multipolar imperialist. The multipolar option is the ONLY realistic option for the USA right now.
So, if the USA has ANY sense of self preservation, it will put Obama in as president. If it wants to drive itself off the cliff of history and explode on the rocks of self-inflicted stupidity, then it should vote for McCain.
The reality that is going to come crashing in is simple: energy. You either have it and use it wisely and with great thrift, or you act like Americans and permit atrocities like Las Vegas and the Cadillac Escalade to exist. Get with the program, or die off. It's a simple choice.
Now, go vote, and vote wisely.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Agreed. I love how Republicans call him a socialist as if that's a bad thing. they say he reads MArx like that's a negative trait. Have these people got any idea what they're saying?
Snopes has some good articles about myths and urban legends about each candidate.
McCain
Obama
Joe Biden
Sarah Palin
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
....F#cks the world? The original "FTW"?
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Just a thought, from a guy who used to work on gambling ("gaming") systems back in the 90s--your average 20-year-old slot machine is light years ahead of a current voting terminal, in terms of the independent multiple party audit capability, internal logging requirements, tamper detection, and ruggedness.
Me, I'll be demanding a paper ballot at my polling place.
Remain calm! All is well!
The presidential election is OVER. Has been for a long time. Obama has won this in a big way. The question is the senate seats. The pubs pulled all their dollars on McCain nearly a month ago, as well as a number of seats such as Colorado's Schaffers and Musgrave. Instead, they targeted seats that are on the edge such as Coleman (vs. franken) in minn. If there is any cheating going on, it is doubtful that it will be systemic. But if the polls, and exit polls match up with results in most areas, BUT do not match up with those contested seats, then it will be time to consider what is going on. And I fully expect that neo-cons will pull garbage in those areas IFF they have the capability.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
As I figure it, we're boned no matter which joker wins, so why give one or the other the tacit approval of being "the lesser evil." My plan was to skip it entirely.
Of course, these inbred redneck quasi-sentients decided to screw up my plans by making Florida one of the states with the hypocritical "pro-marriage" amendments on the ballot.
Some days it just sucks to have principles...
I voted for Kodos.
[Insert pithy quote here]
An ironic ending for a guy who was a VICTIM of this very kind of dirty politics in 2000. Of course, that was back before he had spent 8 years abandoning every single principle he had once stood for (including, most tragically of all, his opposition to the very kind of POW torture that he himself had once endured). In short, when John McCain loses today he can blame Bush, Palin, the economy, Obama, etc. all he likes. But, in truth, he has only himself to blame.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I was thinking about this as I showed my 7 year-old daughter how we vote in MD (this year anyway...diebold is going away). She pressed the green button and the machine spit out my card with a "kachunk" and said my vote was registered. I walked away feeling a bit incomplete. My daughter said, "That's it?" That's how I felt about it. I felt the same way four years ago. How would I know if the computer actually registered my vote. I feel like if I can't slip a ballot into a box I should at least get a receipt. Probably the most disappointing moment was when I had to get the I Voted sticker off the roll myself. I could have taken the whole roll if I wanted to. My daughter loves stickers. Seriously though, does anyone have a story where they're certain the machine did NOT register their vote?
Even here in Holland the newspapers are full with election 'news'. Quoting poll after poll with meaningless numbers because we all know what can happen despite a candidate having a solid lead. Most of the so-called important news shows are making a special program tonight which starts at (local time) midnight and ends tomorrow morning 9am. A nine hour news report about things that hardly concerns us.
Is it this in other countries as well? I'm really curious.
Maybe McCain doesn't suck that much, but he is surrounded by some that do...
Consider what may happen if McCain has to leave before the term is over, that may be a problem.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Tends to suggest that Obama has already won and the rest is just semantics.
Is that what the Mayans forsaw, the event which caused the end of this round of civilization?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I don't get this socialist BS.
Bush spent 8 years imposing government rules on our daily lives, taking away civil liberties, inherent human rights, and personal privacy, and has rounded out his term by buying up (e.g. nationalizing) huge swaths of the mortgage/finance/banking industries.
If you want socialism, vote for the big-government republicans.
(Does anyone else miss small-gov't, pro-personal-liberties republicans? I'm a dyed in the wool liberal, but man am I ready for the neocon/religious right section of the GOP to dry up.)
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
The polling place was much busier than I've ever seen it in the 24 years I've been voting. I usually vote in the morning because the polls are less busy. Normally I have a 5 minute wait, tops. This morning, about 40 minutes. My vote was #91 to go through the tabulator. It was a longer ballot than some years due to a constitutional amendment question and three local school district levy questions.
We have (in central Minnesota) a fill-in-the-oval ballot which is then read by machine similar to tests in school. I saw no issues with either the election judges or the ballots, and the machine seemed to be working fine, although you really can't tell if it correctly tabulated your vote. But it's pretty low tech, so should be fairly reliable. Ballots were readable and the ovals were clearly aligned with the listed choices. On the whole, MN seems to have pretty good voting methods and equipment.
Little girls, like butterflies, need no excuse. -- L. Long
William Hill are offering odds of 13:2 against McCain winning, so I'm thinking of putting £20 on. That way if he gets in at least I have the consolation of a free Xbox 360.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
That was a range. There were between two people and three hundred people. In esimation maths, that's what we call sacrificing precision for accuracy.
I daresay most polling places had more than one person and less than three hundred and one people in line in the early hours.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
McCain FTW
It's the USA election you insensitive clod!
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
I voted early, but got a call from the Obama campaign saying that the county hadn't received my ballot (which I mailed). I showed up at the county courthouse yesterday and they were right. I filled out another one.
Voted straight Dem ticket this year, except the county auditor (who was in the room -- small county) who is an R. I figure, the fact that my ballot didn't arrive may not have been his fault, but the fact that I found out about it and was able to correct it is at least partly due to him, so kudos, and 4 more years!
Also I wrote myself in for sheriff. I feel good about that.
Synergy is your friend
Well, he is an inspiring candidate who knows his stuff. ;)
"99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
As do I. But seeing as I live in an overwhelmingly Democratic state, I think I am going to vote for Jonathan Pater (CowboyNeal).
Yes, both parties are bad for us, big surprise there. Is your point that, "so what if Obama sucks - McCain does to - so I'm voting Obama!" Does that make any sense?
and there is no Goddess but Goddess and She is your Goddess. Non serviam.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
I was gud at maths but eye failed spellings and keyboreding.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
McCain graduated at the bottom of the class at his naval academy and now he is old. Brains get worse quickly at his age, and he didn't start with much.
Meanwhile, we have a brilliant candidate who graduated at the top of his class in law school.
Seems clear to me.
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
never noticed that before
voter in new york state here too
previously, you sign your name on a sheet, and go vote
this year, they had TWO sheets, and we signed our name twice. the second, new sheet, had a number next to our name. i didn't know what that number was for until i just read your comment here
but i don't think they can match a name to a vote, unless they serialize all the votes, and trust the sign in sheet to match the same voting order exactly... which is not necessarily a perfect match, as people coming from the sign in desk to the voting machine were often out of order in which they signed the sheet
so, yes, odd, i wonder at the point of the exercise. but i don't see a massive privacy breach here
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Title pretty much sums it up. The election officials don't know their ABCs, so you pretty much had to grab the book and find your name in it. They didn't have pencil sharpeners, but they had boxes and boxes of brand-new unsharpened pencils.
Remarkably, the R's and D's were behaving themselves, across the street from the polling place, quietly holding their signs.
Supporters of other issues on the ballot (mostly new sales taxes to support special-interest groups) were campaigning INSIDE the polling place and refusing to leave, in violation of state law. I expect they were eventually escorted out by the police, but I didn't have time to stick around and watch. Election officials just ignored the whole issue.
Did it matter? Not really. My district was smart enough to use paper ballots with an optical reader. Reader not working? Just drop the paper ballot in the box. It still wasn't back up when I left, but it didn't slow down the long line of folks who followed me. Even if the reader just corrupted its entire database, it's no big worry- they'll pull out the ballots and count them by hand.
I managed to get a call on the air on the local NPR station to point out how critical this issue is- don't trust *anything* you can't backup and verify by hand.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
while i waited 45 minutes to vote, i noticed that our voting machine counted 360 votes in the first hour. Thats one vote every 10 seconds. Not too shabby.
Sadly, both candidates senior campaign workers have long histories in government promoting the most conventional positions in American government. Look where that's gotten the country.
This is your Republic. I'm not sure why all of you dissatisfied citizens think that participating in a single election cycle will change very much. One needs to participate in your government. That means more than a few minutes once every two to four years.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
because it brings out those inbred rednecks to vote, and they will vote Republican.
We in Missouri dealt with that in 2004 (unfortunately, the white trash got the Constitution amended successfully), so maybe we'll go Dem this time.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Marx is great, in theory.
Just like communism is great, in theory.
It's when the theory hits the practice. Problem is, when you hand communism (or any 'everyone works together' theory) to the people, they're still greedy and inherently flawed. Thereby ending up with a situation similar to... China.
Note: Similar to, not exactly like.
Use what works.
Frankly the damn Republicans are so fiscally irresponsible right now that I don't see how anyone could vote for them on a purely economic basis.
The primary benefit of a dem landslide (for me) is that it may give the republicans a wakeup bitchslap that this social conservative crap only flies with the minority of the population. I'd love to see some real fiscal conservatives in office, but the "I hate taxes and abortions, but I love pork" crowd make me sick.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I participated in early voting last week in rural Louisiana so I barely had to wait to have my vote not counted. No worries though because all of my dead relatives are voting today.
. . . but I'll be damned proud of my country if he's elected.
We've come a long way in the past 30 years - and we still have a long way to go, but I have faith America will fulfill the promise made to us in the Declaration of Independence - that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
God bless America.
What?
Make sure you vote at least 5 times before lunch, and at least 3 afterwards.
Thank you.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Bush spent 8 years imposing government rules on our daily lives, taking away civil liberties, inherent human rights, and personal privacy, and has rounded out his term by buying up (e.g. nationalizing) huge swaths of the mortgage/finance/banking industries. If you want socialism, vote for the big-government republicans.
Your faulty assumption is that there's a difference between the two choices. BOTH are for a nanny-state.
It's as if this whole country has a collective memory loss and just keeps bouncing back and forth between two bad choices.
Its not the President that is going to make the necessary change. Its Congress, American business, and the America people.
1. Congress makes the decisions on domestic policy and passes legislation. The President can sign or veto the proposed legislation, but congress can override that veto by a 2/3 majority
"After passage by both houses, a bill is submitted to the President. The President may choose to sign the bill, thereby making it law. The President may also choose to veto the bill, returning it to Congress with his objections. In such a case, the bill only becomes law if each house of Congress votes to override the veto with a two-thirds majority. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress]
So what good is the President on domestic policy when his decisions can be overridden?
2. Look at the current credit/economic crisis in America. Greed and overspending on the part of business and the populus. Short of the SEC and Fed making mistakes, 90% of that is due to non-governmental factors.
3. The President [at this time] has the obligation to preside over foreign policy matters and matters of national security. Thus, the next President must have a keen sense of foreign policy and diplomacy as we do live in a now "global" community.
In as far as either major candidate (yes, there are four others), I don't think any of them have the intelligence and experience to meet today's requirements.
Congress, That's where we need a change. They are the branch of Federal Government that is responsible for 90% of our domestic policy. Make the change there.
BTW, The House is majority Dems and the Senate, tho is 49/49 Rep/Dem, the remaining two seats have aligned themselves with the Dems, giving them de facto control.
INSERT INTO comment VALUE('Doh!') WHERE user='you';
not taking or taking responsibility for breaking the cup in the kitchen is besides the point, when republicans are clearly responsible for sinking the entire ship in the last 8 years:
1. a pointless war in iraq
2. no oversight of wall street resulting in a horrible crash
3. fumbling hurricane karina to the point of looking like they cared less about american citizens than iraqis
4. massive new deficit
5. going full retard on basic science (supporting creationism, denying stem cell research, etc.)
6. etc.
yes, democrats and republicans have both made mistakes in the last 8 years, but the awful, huge, major embarassing mistakes made by the republican leadership dwarfs anything you could pin in the democrats in the last 8 years
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Denmark, Norway and Sweden are stunning examples of what socialism really means. Some of the highest tax rates in the world, yet everybody is looked after so well. Education is of an exceptional standard, and every person from every background is given equal opportunity to do and become whatever they choose. It's basically social capitalism, by which I am implying that raw capitalism *in practice* is one of the most anti-social and dehumanising concepts on earth.
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
No, not Bush. Just the campaign. I voted against one Republican candidate (not for President, for state senate) precisely because I was constantly getting campaign ads from him; frequently two a day in the mail, and often some stuck on my door. It was just too much. Also the ads didn't have any specifics, just said what a great guy he was.
I saw three choices this year. I could:
1. Vote for someone
2. Vote AGAINST someone
or
3. Vote my conscience.
#1 and #2 would involve votes for people I didn't really agree with but either of which had a realistic chance of winning. Once I had worked this out, I realized that I was being suckered into the classic popularity contest. Not the one where "I'm popular", but the one where "I successfully picked the WINNER!".
That was crap.
So I went back to the ballot to find someone that I agreed with... and came up semi-blank. The solution, it was clear, was going to be more complicated that I had thought.
I began working my way through the party descriptions again, looking for something I might have missed. Then I compared the track records of the elected officials that identify w/ each party and worked out a rough graph with two axis to determine how well each candidate had met the stated goals of their party. I thought of it as a 'Truth in Advertising' metric. How often do candidates of party X meet their promises? Once I had that, I aggregated the data and set it aside.
I then wrote down my core beliefs and popped them into Excel alongside the data for the 'TiA' metric and generated a quick 3D histogram to find which political parties were closest both in belief to my own and high in followthrough (the TiA number). Finally, I had my spreadsheet take this graph and do a pivot on the results and generate the party answer.
Unfortunately, my grasp of Excel is presumably sub-par, so the answer field populated with some sort of complicated error. I tried debugging it, but I didn't know how to modify VBS, and then when I _could_ get to it, I couldn't figure out how to set tracepoints. I tried to bypass the error by initializing a pointer that I could push and pop to in a handy little block of assembly, but I couldn't quite seem to figure out how to use pointers in VBS, so eventually I just voted the Libertarian party.
Ultimately my point in the previous post was that calling Obama socialist is quite hypocritical. I was trying to keep it nonpartisan.
Vote for Kang or you are stupid!
Kodos will ruin this country and he is a secret space-muslim!
Look up "aencephaly." And tell me if it's fair/moral to knowingly bring this child into the world. Let me help, so you don't have to RTFA! Most of the baby's brain is missing with a gaping hole in the back of its head and it's spinal cord is mostly exposed. It will die shortly after birth, and spend its brief moment of life on meds or in agonizing pain and mother knows this for most of the pregnancy. There is NO medical treatment for this, it is 100% lethal! Then she gets to watch her child die. Does this make God happy? Who is this fair to, the mother, father, grandparents, or the child? Don't give me any of this it's God's plan crap. Who does it benefit to not allow this mother an elective abortion? This is only one example of many. For a human to choose death is not always wrong. Thank God for freedom of religion or freedom from it!
Don't forget Finland and Iceland. The Nordic countries comprise more than just Scandinavia, and they are all welfare states.
How about curtailing it a little next time lads?
(Speaking from an outside-US position) I've been following this whole thing with great interest since the Obama/Clinton things started - and going back a bit I stayed up all night watching the Gore/Bush thing - so I'm not knocking it.
But do you not think it's a bit long in the tooth at this stage? It's been pretty much going for two years and when you think about it, all you are doing is selecting one individual from a list of 30 or so - surely you don't need 2 years to make that decision.
Maybe some work needs to be done on limiting the scale of the thing - both in terms of time and of money, which is verging on the ridiculous too.
See you in 2 years time...
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
It's not just Bush. Palin taxed the crap out of oil companies in Alaska and redistributed the wealth in the form of checks to all Alaskans including herself. Clearly she's a Neiman-Marxist.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Mussolini
I went to vote this morning and while waiting in line just outside the polling place, a black man was handing out pamphlets to other black people. I told him i wanted one, just so I could see what it was and it was telling the people who to vote for. I'm pretty sure this is illegal as I remember last election seeing people get arrested on tv for this. Anyone know if it is illegal and what are your thoughts on that. I know if I was a black person I would be offended that they are kind of saying, here's this in case you're to stupid to vote for who you think should win.
"I don't have to think. I only have to do it. The results are always perfect, but that's old news." - Meat Puppets
Maybe McCain doesn't suck that much, but he is surrounded by some that do...
Consider what may happen if McCain has to leave before the term is over, that may be a problem.
OK, but consider what may happen if Obama has to leave before the term is over, that may be a problem.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
An idiot or a lawyer? Not a very easy choice...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Obama has criticized the US constitution because instead of giving power to the government, which is what he wants, it limits the power of government, which apparently cramps his style. I don't really think he outshines McCain when it comes to not "ruining our constitution".
Oh, and speaking of the economy, Obama said his energy plan would bankrupt the coal-powered electric industry (and no, not the coal industry as the talk show hosts are claiming, although the electric industry is a major consumer of coal and that could feasibly bankrupt the coal industry as a side effect). What's that going to do to the economy? And the price of electricity would "necessarily skyrocket". Care to guess what that's going to do to the practicality of using electricity as an "alternative energy source"? Also, do you have any idea how much money your city pays for electricity to light government buildings, run the computers, pump water, and do scores of other things? Guess who pays that bill?
As an item of curiosity I looked up my city's budget (available online) but unfortunately I don't think they itemized electric costs. I couldn't find a figure for it anyway. It'd be an interesting figure to have.
Finally, a disclaimer: I'm not saying "this is what will happen". I'm trying to engage a discussion of "what did Obama say", "what did he mean", and "if that does happen, what will the effect(s) be".
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Ah yes a lawyer, what couldn't you trust about a lawyer.
I'm not not licking toads.
So, your going to vote for another socialist - hoping he's less of one?!?! Republicans are big oil, pro corp, and now socialist and big government. Proves that you have no fucking idea who a republican is and your to ignorant to recognise anything. We are in true danger when it's population is so stupid.
ALL THE MACHINES are tied to voters. I had to enter a code at the booth that I was at earlier. On the butterflies that I use to vote at, it was recorded on the outside of the ballot. All in all, they want to KNOW who voted where. After all, it is their job to prevent fraud. BUT your vote is secret, UNLESS 100% of everybody at that booth voted the exact same way as you.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
About 2 months ago, I registered as an overseas voter. About a month ago, I received a "sample" ballot pack in the mail. About 2 weeks ago, I received the actual ballot pack which I filled out, put in the purple reply envelope, signed, and paid the AUD$4 to send it back (worth it for me). Before filling out, I tried my darndest to find out as much as I could about local measures that I was able to vote on. I'm registered in California, but was disappointed at the lack of options for some seats I was voting for. I'll have to get back over there at some stage and see about changing that. Overall, I know I'm going to end up being tremendously disappointed, but I'm happy to be involved in the process. And it's interesting to see how other countries do it.
I want a constitutional amendment that prohibits anyone from running for office or from supporting anyone who may run for office or from reporting about running for office until 6 months prior to the election.
As has been said before. This is fricking way to much.
Ward
. Silence! Be thankful thy species is unpalatable! .
Regardless of what people say, I'm much happier with the choices this election that in the previous one.
Though I voted for Obama, I have great respect for John McCain. That is much more than I can say for either George Bush or John Kerry.
he behaved more presidential despite all the mud flinging at him
Of course! It is easy to stay above the fray when the press takes all the mud for you. Joe the Plumber was investigated more thoroughly than William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and Tony Rezco, combined!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I haven't been to Iceland but I forgot about Finland. I think I'm still slightly bitter about having my booze confiscated by security outside Assembly :)
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
I voted for Obama/Biden for President, Mark Warner (D - former VA governor) for Senate, and Rob Wittman (R) for House.
In my former life (until July when I just couldn't take it anymore) I was a lobbyist. I've met every one of the candidates with a real shot at winning except Sarah Palin, and she's largely responsible for me not voting for McCain (that and all my friends and family in Iraq (in the military, i'm a cracker-american)).
Gilmore nearly bankrupted the state as governor and his wife, who had been an adjunct professor of classics at my school was a 'tard who made me catch cold in St Alban's in England in January by rambling on about insulae in a sleet storm.
I think I made all the right choices -- let's just hope they don't come back to bite me.
I get a laugh from the Republicans calling Obama a "socialist". Compared to our Conservative Party here in
Trolling is a art,
It's time for a new party. One that I believe will appeal to the majority of people in this country.
Lets try Fiscally conservative and socially liberal for a change.
In other words, keep the Government out of my life for the most part. Not a totally libertarian position, I do think the government does have a job to do. Namely to defend the BORDERS and provide reliable information to the citizens so THEY can decide how to live their lives.
*sigh*
Ward
. Silence! Be thankful thy species is unpalatable! .
I would say that the combination of a fillibuster-proof Dem majority Congress with a Dem president is a bad idea. The only way we can be safe from idiotic legislation is to keep the branches mixed. In fact a recent WSJ article showed that America has always done the best economically with a mixed system.
even if mccain won, none of the things you say woudl come to pass
your problem is you are confusing popularity with power. certianly, the usa has become immensely unpopular under bush, but it has lost none of its power. continue bush's policies though, and it WOULD lose power, but not because of anything you worte, but simply because america's ability to create and project power would be diminished because of internal factors
for example, before the global economic meltdown over the last 2 months, there was much hemming and hawing about becoming a non-us centered world, economically. however, as the meltdown progressed, the us dollar perversely gained in value. simply because, even though the problem was started in the usa, it was still the most stable thing still standing as the whole world went down with the usa
someday, the usa will indeed not be the center of the world economically and militarily. but it won't be for any of the flowery and powerless popularity contest-level considerations you put forth, but simply becaus esome other country, such as china, will siply be able to create and project economic and military power, again, simply because of internal efforts, having nothign whatsoever to do with what the rest of the world thinks of china
your understanding of how the world actually works is quite... silly
for example: "Strict Visa reqs, limited visas, etc. Let them know that when they visit, they know they are thought of as ASSHOLES."
any country that woudl be foolish enough to do that, would see their economy suffer, since americna businessmen wouldn't be able to get in the country and do business. do you know any country then that would give up millions or billions simply to make a statement that they hate americans?
again, learn: popularity is not the same thing as power
it is possible to be deeply hated, but be in complete control
it is also possible, by the way, hint hint, to be loved everywhere you go in the world, but be absolutely powerless to affect any change about any issue you care about
no, the truth is, even if obama wins (and please god, let him win), the usa will be hated by many (and loved by some), and see its power still quite large in the world, but still slowly dimming while china slowly amps up. and this would be true even if mccain won
power!=popularity
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
McCain is going senile.
That really didn't stop Regan from being elected in a second time. I find it appalling that Nancy and her astrologer were running the country for six years.
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
Here here.. I couldn't agree more.
Mayan Doomsday: December 21, 2012
Inauguration Day: January 20, 2013
Seems like the Mayans were a bit off...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
... is the one issue I've had with this election. Barack Obama raised over $639 million dollars, and spent over $573 million dollars throughout this election (source).
Yes, it's common for politicians to spend huge amounts of money on advertising for their Presidential elections, but in a time when the economy is going to hell and back... maybe a 30 minute TV commercial on the major TV stations in a prime-time slot was a bit... wasteful.
I'm not saying I don't like Obama - he's my favorite candidate, and I hope he's elected President, but the money he raised could be used a lot of different ways. Some of the things he used the money on really helped his campaign and was worth it, but some things were unnecessary...
The good news is that, like Ron Paul's supporters, I'll be able to easily tell if Diebold ate my vote.
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
Obama has criticized the US constitution because instead of giving power to the government, which is what he wants, it limits the power of government, which apparently cramps his style
Citation? The guy taught constitutional law for over 12 years, so one should be easy to find, yet I can't seem to come across one. Not even a dubious one like the claim that Bush called it 'a goddamned piece of paper' which has a single, anonymous, source.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
December 21st, 2012 the world is going to end as we know it - do the research:
The Oracle at Delphi
The Mayan Calendar
The I Ching
and the Hopi Indian Nation
all independently predicted that the world would end as we know it on December 21st, 2012.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Actually, there exists no continent named solely 'America.' Also, when the topic of the article is the US presidential election, using the word 'America' is totally appropriate because only an idiot would be confused.
I live in America. I'm an American. Now, it just so happens that the United States of America is, in addition, located within North America. So, I'm like doubly-American. Er, yeah...
Don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon.
You forgot Palin. I knew McCain had lost it when he nominated Sarah Palin to be his running mate. If McCain were to have a stroke or worse and no longer able to be President, we would be stuck with HER as President. I'll never understand why McCain picked Palin -- if he wanted a Woman running mate, there are many other better qualified Women in the Republican Party. If he needed the support of the 700 Club Right, there are "better" choices.
Oh well, I lost faith in the Republican Party when Pat Robertson ran in the Primaries back in the '80s. The Republicans were supposed to be the party of business, not the political arm of the 700 Club.
Beware of Sleestak
I don't like either of the major candidates and am still wondering how we ended up with the two of them as our only reasonable choices. Neither were front runners in the early days.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I could not agree more.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
If Obama were a Marxist (which is a laughable concept when you take the world view) then you wouldn't be paying tax, you would be returning that which you had stolen from the working classes.
And while we're on the subject I would definitely argue that a negative income tax isn't Marxist or Socialist - the idea was invented by Milton Friedman, the darling economist of those notorious lefties Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
I am consistently amazed by the lack of general awareness of how the electoral college actually works. It's old and broken.
I remember reading this article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.04/strategies.html in the months after 9/11... and the phrase that stuck with me from it, was that the "US will commodify your discontent, sell it back to you on DVD."
At the time I took this to mean that the almost overwhelming cultural power of the United States (I am not American.), would eventually embrace and replace all others, because that would always be the most profitable course of action. While it certainly does mean this in part, watching the ascent of Barack Obama (I would not vote for Mr. Obama.) on a global level has caused me to re-evaluate Mr. Sterling's words.
By electing Obama, I see the ultimate example of the United States co-opting the worlds discontent. Because after his seemingly inevitable election, it's not the United States that will have no more excuses to hide behind, but the rest of the world that will have run out of straw-men to blame for their own, self-made dilemmas.
You wanted the Unites States to be led by 'one of you'? Bam, you got it. Now you can stop blaming the Unites States for all the worlds ills, and take some responsibility for yourselves for a change. That would be most welcome.
May he actually live up to the impossible, messianic expectations... why would any rational person hope otherwise? Make sure to buy the DVD.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
Don't worry, it would be worse if it was an idiot lawyer.
Isn't it obvious??
CmdrTaco doesn't want the Slashdot community to go out and vote today, so he posted this to keep us busy with flame wars all day!!
Conspiracy!!
This year I realized what my actual philosophy is, so I voted that way. Voting for the lesser evil is still... evil.
The voting machines around here are still mechanical-lever type, so I'm pretty confident the vote was tallied correctly.
Obama's tax cuts are aimed at people who actually work, so lazy people who are sitting around and not contributing aren't going to get anything back.
Now, let's talk about Alaska. They don't pay income tax up there. In fact, every single man, woman, and child (even infants) get paid by the government to live there. Alaskans all receive an "equitable share of the state's non-renewable resources." That certainly doesn't happen in Texas!
Now, let's talk about Palin.
Palin said: "Alaska-we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs"
Palin passed a windfall profits tax , literally taking profits away from oil companies, and redistributed it amongst every man, woman, and child in America, to the tune of an extra $1200 on top of what Alaskans got that year from the Permanent Fund Dividend.
:(){
I think not wanting to elect a guy who is wavering around the average life expectancy of an American man, with a family history of not even reaching that mark, is a valid concern.
This iReport post sums it up:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-85412
Yes I looked for a better source but couldn't find any. The facts in that story will check out, except the average life expectancy of an American man which seems to be all over the place, with 70~74 being the most common answers I can find (if anyone can get a solid number from a good source please post it).
It would be like saying that not wanting a 4' tall guy on your basketball team, or not wanting a narcoleptic on your gaming clan is being unfair.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Wait, why didn't anyone tell me about this sooner?!
music lover since 1969
At least one other has said "Thank you"; let me add mine.
The instant he started towing the party line after losing the 2000 primary he lost my respect.
I talk about stuff.
I want peoples' votes to count. Fortunately we use pencil and paper in my district -- just use your pencil to complete the line belonging to the candidate/issue you support. No Diebold or Premier Election Systems equipment.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Whatever happens, we win! After eight years of the Bush
administration, the world is much worse off, and now that
it's coming to end, much of the rest of the world is going
to collectively sigh with relief.
While Bush & Co. are not directly responsible for the 9-11
attacks, with their hubris and mismanagement, they certainly
succeeded in making a bad situation much worse. Many countries
are suffering due to the US's inept diplomacy and military
policies. The current administration has also been the role
model for many despots, rolling back hard won freedoms in
countries where democracy has yet to set strong roots.
The blame for the recent economic meltdown can also be laid
at Bush's feet. The massive tax cuts and deficit spending,
combined with poor oversight of the financial situation
has led to today's mess. Enron should have warned us about
what was to come.
For me, here in Switzerland, it doesn't really matter who wins,
the main thing is that the current administration is out. It
may actually be better to have a republican president and a
democratic house/senate, in order to prevent the excesses
that are likely to follow if the Democrats gain control of
everything. I seem to remember reading that the US government
functions better when the executive and legislative branches
are controlled by different parties.
Personally, I'm looking forward to a return to multilateralism
and sensible financial policies.
As usual, after a regime change, the pendulum will swing the
other way and, unfortunately, the US tendency is that it will
probably swing too far. So be careful what you wish for!
---- It won't be as bad as you fear or as good as you hope, but it will take twice as long as you plan.
McCain didn't change the Republican Party. The Republican Party changed him.
Ironically, I thought McCain was going to be the one to change the party. The GOP has lost it's way, and every year the party moves to the religious right. John McCain always seemed to stand up for what was right. I'm lean left but I respect some of the core republican causes. I once donated to McCain's Senate campaign, because I thought McCain would be the leader to save the Republican Party from itself.
And yet in the last couple years McCain completely collapsed-- it's like he lost his independence, and quickly started spewing the same vitriol that I hear coming out of the far right. John McCain, what happened to you?
I'm not sure if he chose Palin because he liked her, or because his Masters told him too. Either way, she is not a good candidate for VP by any stretch of the imagination.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Since the beginning of summer. I guess we return to scam mortgages (radio) and erectial disfunction drugs (tv) now. I was starting to think Barack was the Big Brother since he had more screen time than the TV actors in some time periods. I also got tired of a half-dozen robo-call messages in my message box every day too and spam mail from the candidates.
It's funny how the socialist tag only seems to apply to handouts to poor people. Somehow, when businesses, farmers, and others have their hands out, it's not socialism--it's investing in America.
Cthulhu/Yog Sothoth vs. Hastur/Tsathoggua 2008.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
I concur, checks and balances are pointless if the checkers/balancers are in cahoots. However I'd much rather see a moderately left leaning court compared to a steeply right leaning court. Unless, of course, you want the scopes monkey trial overturned, and really dislike the bill of rights.
Im sick of the 3rd parties not working to get involved in the lower levels of Gov't... What have they done to earn our trust or respect? they have no track record, and *if* they somehow won the White House they would have absolutly NO support from the two chambers.
Until they can show that they can do something starting as city councilors, mayorals, state senators, or governors. then I dont believe you will be able to do anything better than the rest of the clowns in D.C.
Give us a reason other than "we ain't them"
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Would you elect a brilliant and capable man who disagrees with your every fundamental value?
I would certainly not. The last thing I want is some genius who is filled with good intentions plunging us into socialism because he thinks he knows what's best for everyone else. Frankly I'd rather go to war with Iran.
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
I went to vote this morning. When I got to the front of the line, the woman there asked my name. I spelled my last name for her, and she started looking for it. She showed me the voter registration info, pointed at a name, and asked if that was me. It was not. I told her that name was before mine alphabetically, and that I was likely on the next page. When she found my name, all I had to do was sign the form and vote.
I noticed that no one else in any of the other lines was asked to present ID either... How easy it would have been just to name someone. "Yes, I'm John Brown".
There were reports on the radio this morning of a man that was busted voting 4 times. The poll worker recognized him, and counted as he voted, returned to the end of the line, then voted again.
I don't get this socialist BS.
It's quite simple: any time anyone suggests raising taxes (especially on the wealthy), the right wing starts calling it "class warfare" and "socialism" to tie support of higher taxes to the Evil Empire (a.k.a. the USSR).
I am officially gone from
We use a mark/scan system in Champaign, IL. I voted this morning at ~ 6:45 AM. It was a bit chaotic at my polling place. I completed my ballot. When I got to the machine, the poll worker tending the tabulator looked a bit chagrined. Then I read the LCD screen - "SYSTEM HALTED MEMORY REFERENCE ERROR".
We were instructed to feed our ballots into a different slot on the front of the machine. The county clerk's office informs me that the unscanned ballots will be scanned and counted later. I do not trust these damn machines.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens." - Schiller
are you a mennonite? amish? they are the modern day offspring of that medieval religious movement
or are you like someone who calls themselves cathar (another medieval christian sect the catholics massacred) or manichaen (a dualistic religion from persia, st augustine converted from manichaeism to christianity)
that is, someone who professes a dead religion just to sound cool and different?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
To the Democrats: when Obama wins this election, you're going to claim that you have a mandate from the people and as a result you're going to go hog wild and pass bill after bill under President Obama's rubber stamp. You feel like you've got a decade of repression to overcome. You also are blinded by your own hubris; you think that somehow humankind can overpower the universe itself and all that is needed is just willpower. But you're wrong, and you're stupid, and despite being on the short end of the stick for so long you just can't learn any humility. I hate you because you wear rose-tinted glasses. I hate you because you fight against the fundamental forces of the universe -- you think you can change human nature; you think you can turn basic economic principles on their ear and things will work better merely by the force of will; you think that all of humanity is somehow collectively more powerful than the very planet we live on and brighter than the sun we orbit. I hate you, you elitist snobs.
To the Republicans: thanks for turning your back on fiscal conservatism and mortgaging my child's future. Again. Also, while I think Jesus is great, but please keep your fucking religion out of government. It is not for you to judge me; most of you sensibly relegate that responsibility to God. Now you just need to tell your radical right-wing to shut the fuck up and "live and let live". Unfortunately, many of you allow your faith to blind you to reality. I hate you because you are hypocrites. I hate you because your being in power for so long has corrupted all of you, and you don't even realize it. You deserve to continue to lose power because you need to learn some lessons. But I know you won't, not really, and I hate you for that too. I hate you most of all because you have real contempt for the common man but you're too stupid to realize it; you don't even understand that you are condescending to an entire nation!
I hate both of you because you treat me like a ten-year-old; I hate how you try to pander to my base instincts and assume I have an IQ of 80. I hate both of you because none of you have any balls and won't allow yourselves to go off script; I hate both of you because you both require your politicians to toe the line. I hate both of you because you lie and you "spin". I hate both of you because of your implicit collusion to keep the status quo.
I lament the death of the U.S. I hate you, Republican and Democrat alike, for killing our great nation.
Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
or at least Rush and his dittoheads are. The elites are, of course, those who are in Washington.
It has nothing to do with the dittoheads and other white trash being idiots and voting incorrectly for the past umpty years, of course.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
We can only hope we'll actually know tomorrow. Another Florida hanging chad incident could well be in the cards. And the reports I've heard about recounts being totally inaccurate in FL doesn't give me hope, either.
I suspect there will be LOTS of lawsuits filed by whichever side loses. They will challenge the validity of votes in any district Acorn was active in. They will challenge the electronic machines and the trustworthiness of their results. They will claim voter intimidation and disenfranchisement. And on and on. I think the 2000 election was the first of many drawn out election result proceedings.
- Jasen.
Seems like the Mayans were a bit off...
You mean like a parity error?
Fucked The What?
Why do Eric Schmidt and Warren Buffett endorse Obama? Because he is for growth-oriented, social democratic capitalism. Growth through innovation, educating your populace, with a safety net, and did I say education?
McCain's capitalism revolves around military contractors and, what I am not unafraid to call plain old imperialism. It is also based on monopoly capitalism - like the monopoly Verizon has over the local loop. Exploiting low-educated workers to the last penny.
The choice of Obama is obvious, unless you're of the worse-is-better school.
It's as if this whole country has a collective memory loss and just keeps bouncing back and forth between two bad choices.
The problem is that as long as people make one of the two bad choices, the remaining choices will all be infeasible to make, unless a large chunk of people agree to make them.
Duverger's law is a principle of political science which predicts that constituencies that use first-past-the-post systems will become two-party systems, given enough time.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_runoff_voting)
You may have heard the phrase "Every vote not for number two is a vote for number one". Think Ralph Nader.
We can analyze this in the framework of Game Theory: suppose you're a not-so-moderate leftie. You want Nader to win, then Kerry, then Bush, with payoffs [N=10, K=2, B=-10]. Suppose there's three percent like you, and the rest vote K=48%, B=49%. If you all vote Nader, you get payoff -10. If you all vote Kerry, you get payoff 2. Your goal is to maximize your payoff; what will you do?
Voting for the big two is probably a Nash Equilibrium, when the voting game is formalized the "right" way, which means that it's in everyone's self interest to keep doing what they're doing as long as no one else change what they do.
One thing you probably want in a voting system is that voting honestly (:= for the candidate you prefer the most) is a dominant strategy (:= it's at least as good as any other strategy).
As long as people vote for the big two, they have to vote for big two to get what they want unless the game (i.e. election system) changes. And the election system won't change as long as people vote for the big two, because the politicians who have the power to change the game have higher payoffs from the game being what it is.
If you believe that those three weren't actually investigated, you match the description of a conspiracy nut. Regarding Ayers/Rezco, there are plenty of people who are interested in those stories and plenty of people who go around claiming they have those stories. The problem is that their sources of information are pretty shaky, and much of what they "uncover" is totally contrived and usually irrelevant.
As for Wright, I think a fair comparison would be Palin's church, and I generally hear much less about that one than I do Wright.
Nah, but the combination of an already right leaning supreme court
Now I couldn't decide which was worse, the prospect of more right-leaning justices, or one party having the Congress and the presidency. Either way, it's a crap shoot.
I was so torn that I actually didn't decide until I was in the booth. Hope it turns out well...
Hear hear, well said.
If you really didn't watch the debates, the transcripts do not do them justice. The eye rolls, the smirks, the obvious disdain, and the obviously scripted nature of the comments, spoke volumes that you didn't see. Of course, you managed to come to the same conclusions anyway.
Speaking of earmarks, Palin says "sometimes these dollars go to projects having little or nothing to do with the public good. Things like fruit fly research in Paris, France... I kid you not!" ( Palin speach).
Nature magazine studied the origins of this earmark and it seems to be pertaining to olive fruit fly research in order to safeguard California's Olive Oil industry (link between stories) and so perhaps collaborating with France is what she disagrees with? France was conducting this type of research and it seems the money was spent to fund this research abroad. Regardless, she speaks of fruit fly research as though it was completely ridiculous... But of course, genetic research may be against her beliefs.
If Paul A. Simpson used a bicentennial quarter to cast my vote for the president of the United States of America. Money put forth the candidates so let it be money that decides the election. Tails (or the ass) was Obama and heads was McCain. The outcome: TAILS! I voted for Obama, because money told me to.
Someone is going to have to tell me how this post is any better than a Muslim fundamentalist wanting a global Caliphate. The idea that God is above all and the Church as an alternative power structure is exactly what Muslim fundamentalists want.
This is why it is bad.
This is why the world is in the trouble it is.
The worst thing is that in the Middle East and in the US people with these destructive beliefs are pandered to and hold inordinate amounts of power over sane and rational people.
WTF would the founding fathers think of a view that placed god and the church above democracy?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
The following will be incredibly Racist, mod me accordingly:
The Nordic countries aren't full of career welfare blacks and disgusting white trash entitlement whores.
The fact is, America has 300+ million people and too many of them don't actually contribute to the economy in any meaningful fashion. If you get rid of the noncons then you might make a socialist system work. But with millions of people who expect to DO NOTHING and have all of their needs provided for it just won't work.
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Amen. This is exactly what I have been feeling. The Republicans spent the last few months insulting my intelligence -- so deeply that they lost my vote.
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Obama in a 2001 interview for WBEZ-FM:
But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.
(WorldNetDaily article)
YouTube (I haven't watched this because streaming videos are blocked, but I'm assuming it's relevant)
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
It's when the theory hits the practice. Problem is, when you hand communism (or any 'everyone works together' theory) to the people, they're still greedy and inherently flawed.
And let's not forget the millions that have died at the hands of communism. Stalin killed more people than Hitler could have dreamed. Stalin made Hitler look like Stalin light.
And, of course, let's not forget the corruption that is inherent in the system ("HELP! HELP! I'M BEING REPRESSED") and the effect it has on human rights. How free are the Chinese to research Tienanmen Square? What happens to politicians who oppose Putin? Sorry, but communist countries are not well known for their stellar human rights records!
Don't even get me started on economics. Cuba, The Soviet Union, N. Korea are all fine examples of the communist economic record. China is the exception, but they have a way of mixing capitalism in with their communist ideals. Still, their people are basically slaves in the factories (hard to compete with slave labor) and their quality of life pales in comparison with capitalists countries.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Citation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
I think that's what he might be talking about. Just ignore the video, it's annoying to watch.
The modding... why does it only go up to +5? Why?!
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
I'm voting for Obama, but I also don't like the idea of a filibuster-proof senate. Fortunately, it doesn't look like that's going to happen. I'm curious about the correlation of a mixed system and economic good times, and I wonder which way the causation runs. It seems to me that a single party taking multiple branches of government is a sign of voter unrest, and an economic downturn usually causes voter unrest. Maybe it's that economic downturns cause unmixed government, and not the other way around?
However I'd much rather see a moderately left leaning court compared to a steeply right leaning court.
Please dispense with these arbitrary labels. "Liberal" used to mean what "conservative" now means, and the "religious right" can just as easily become the "religious left" with the marriage of faith and environmentalism (for example). Religion in no way represents fiscal conservatism. What you should be promoting is the recognition of individual rights on principle, in each and every circumstance, rather than the pragmatic advancement of one random party over another. Both parties have discarded all principles and are fine with rights violations when convenient.
1. i think we should abolish the electoral college, since, as 2000 demonstrates, you can lose the popular vote and still win the election (and hasn't the last 8 years proven that to be a mistake)
2. however, if you use the existence of the electoral college as a reason not to vote, no: you're wrong. the electoral college is a negative tweak to a system that still works. removing the electoral college merely makes it work better. the existence of the electoral college doesn't nullfy the entire process and doesn't nullify your vote. it merely warps the value of your vote in ways that are really kind of arbitrary, neither favoring one ideology or another. it's noise in the system. bush could have won the popular vote and lost the ec election in 2000. it favors neither left nor right
now, there are people out there with learned helplessness, with deficits in their ability to trust. there are plenty of reasons and examples of the system creating distrust, but there are also people in this world with a pathological disability: an inability to trust
such people are not disenfranchised by the system, such people disenfrachise themselves
so if you do not vote, simply because the electoral college exists, you are looking hard for a reason not to vote, and you found a very flimsy one. its really not a good reason not to vote, its a very lame excuse on your part to think you don't matter, when you most certainly do still matter
then the question is: why are you looking for an excuse not to matter? if you don't vote because of the electoral college, there's something wrong with you. its self-disenfrachisement. your rationalization for not voting because of the ec points to character flaws you possess. it tells us that you invent excuses not to matter, not to care, walling yourself off from the world by thinking about how you can't affect any change in your world, in utterly helpless ways. self-fulfilling prophecy
your excuse not to vote is wrong, and lame. the ec is a tweak on your vote, not a nullification of it. you need to think long and hard about the way you think about your relationship with your world and remove some deeply seeded issues with trust you have
your psychological problems are showing
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
> Obama only seems socialist if you ignore the 700 billion dollar bailout we handed to businesses
You won't find me supporting the bailout. So now that we are all agreed it was dumb where does that leave us since Obama voted for it right along with the McCainiac.
So our choice is between a third generation Marxist who hangs out with nutjobs and has zero accomplishments to justify two autobiographies vs a war hero who seems compelled to agree with Democrats at every opportunity out of some crazy notion that bipartisianship is always a good thing. We all know McCain has done a lot of things and will do big things as POTUS, and we Republicans will hate at least half of em. Why do ya think our side has been so demoralized.
Democrat delenda est
No matter who we choose our country is still screwed. It just depends how you want it. Fast by a young black man or slow by an old white one. Either way im moving to Finland =D.
I think you're exactly right on Palin: she's a capable non-intellectual.
And I think you're right that Obama is not a 'steady hand'. But you're wrong about that nudge left. Obama is at is heart a 1960's radical wannabe, out to destroy what he sees as white supremacy and the power of an unjust AmeriKKKan empire.
Whether or not you believe that America has an empire, and is unjust, and in the urgency of electing a symbol is whether you buy into Obama or not.
Despite how nice it would be to elect a black President, I held my nose and voted McCain.
McCain shot himself in the foot by no longer being a moderate and pandering to the right.
He was his own person before this election.
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
About 30 days, actually. Since the Long Count calendar is base-20 (sort of), that'd be off by 0.0.0.1.10... an odd number I think. If it was something like 0.0.0.1.0 I'd think maybe they forgot to carry.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
But in reality, I voted for McCain/Palin because Obama couldn't convince me he was anything more then a suite and tie. I had sworn that I would vote for Hillary before I would vote for McCain. This was because I thought Hillary was vindictive, ornerous, exotic in her methods of reprisals, and just a plain mean sonofabitch who gets even at any slight, perceived or otherwise. Somebody I thought would be great to continue the war on terror.
I just remember McCain as a curmudgeon who gave Bush a hard time at every opportunity. But a funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Obama out manuevered Hillary (which in itself makes him capable of being a good president), And McCain picked Palin. Who I think was truly an ingenius and inspirational pick.
Now, if you go out and explore other peoples "ordinary" peoples choices for President or nominees, you'll find that for the most part its just like picking your favorite football or baseball team. There is no rhyme or reason, perhaps just a single issue sticks in their head. But largely, it's just capriciousness.
I'm a conservative libertarian. I want Marijuana legalized. I don't believe in national health care, but I do want nationalized health insurance ... or even nationalized insurance of all sorts because insurance serves a very very usefull national social function -- while regulated healthcare would be a disaster and serve to create a "class" system between the rich having the best health care, and the poor having the basic minimum healthcare.
I'm for limiting the bonuses and wages of top corporate executives ... because it's become an ol' boy network, and has or is creating an aristocracy of sorts. I do not believe Roe vs. Wade should be reversed. I believe it should be entirely erased from Federal existence. Not because I'm pro-choice, or pro-life, but because It's not the Job of the Federal government to either approve or dissaprove of such things.
I believe the 17th ammendment should be repealed in such a manner that individual states determine how they select their senators. I believe campaign finance should be such that if you don't live and pay taxes in the state of your politician, then you can't donate money to them.
I believe it should be a crime for candidates to accept illegal contributions, not a crime for somebody to illegally contribute.
I believe the Whitehouse door should be painted Shamrock Green.
And thats my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
If you believe that those three weren't actually investigated, you match the description of a conspiracy nut. Regarding Ayers/Rezco, there are plenty of people who are interested in those stories and plenty of people who go around claiming they have those stories. The problem is that their sources of information are pretty shaky, and much of what they "uncover" is totally contrived and usually irrelevant.
As for Wright, I think a fair comparison would be Palin's church, and I generally hear much less about that one than I do Wright.
These guys may have been investigated, but nothing was said in the media. Sure, Reverend Wright got some play, but I've never once heard a "news person" mention William Ayers, only "talking heads" and commentators.
Also, wasn't there a video of Obama at a dinner with a Palestinian spokesperson that the LA Times refuses to release? Didn't they release a similar video of Arnold during his election? Their excuses is the person who gave it to them asked them not to release it. I call BS. Why would you give a video to the press if you didn't want it released? That's like giving your phone number to someone on the condition that they never EVER call.
Please, don't even try to say that the press has been fair during this election.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I think you are imagining things in order to fit your ideology. Searching in Google for these guys (even restricting searches to Google's News 2008 archive) turns up far more results for Ayers, Wright and Rezko than for Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher.
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maybe Diebold embraced a little TDD?
Anyone have any good stories?
I live outside philly, in a traditional republican area, and while I waited to vote, two election officials were openly discussing how to slow down the line by forcing people to que up outside the building instead of in the large lobby. I thought it kind of interesting.
Denmark, Norway and Sweden are stunning examples of what socialism really means.
I agree that Denmark, Norway and Sweden are good examples of quite successful socialism. This being said, I don't think you can just apply the same system to any country. One of the reasons these countries have been so successful with socialism is because they're very homogeneous. You can argue that recent (past 10 years) waves of immigration have partly erased this homogeneity, but it'd be foolish to imply that Scandinavian countries aren't still way more homogeneous than for instance the U.S.
Personally, I do believe in socialized healthcare and education - I just think it's much harder to accomplish in the U.S. than just saying "let's copy Scandinavian countries".
This space up for sale.
A geek would vote for the man that still has a working brain.
No, a geek would make the rational choice based upon his own interest. For me, a vote for Obama is essentially a vote for unemployment.
I didn't like it, but I voted for McCain. A 10% cut in defense contracting would be economic horror where I live (Obama promised this). A 25% overall cut in defense spending is worse, still, but it's not something Obama promised (Barney Frank did).
If there is a tie in the electoral college, or if John McCain wins there should be MASSIVE PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATIONS. It is very clear from all the polls that the popular vote is overwhelmingly for Barack Obama. The electoral college needs to be abolished so voter manipulation, deception, and disenfranchisement in only a few states can not swing the entire election.
Obama is a Professor of Law, in fact.
The distinction is akin to that between a prostitute and a Madam.
May the Maths Be with you!
And let's not forget the millions that have died at the hands of communism.
Please let's be clear here: I haven't ever heard of anyone who was killed by communism. (That would be like saying that everyone killed by US troops in World War II were killed by "capitalism"...) The millions you're talking about were killed by repressive totalitarian dictators using the name of "communism" to make themselves sound more palatable to the ordinary people. Their economic systems may have been partially communist-based, but their political systems certainly were basically your garden-variety dictatorship.
Anyone who holds up Stalin as an iron-clad reason why Communism is Evil doesn't actually understand what communism is.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
The US couldn't get more socialist if it tried.
Well, I suppose you could spend some money on health care instead of the military, but that's a minor shift compared to what has already happened over the last 70 years.
Seems like the Mayans were a bit off...
A bit off? The end of the world for them was over 1,000 years ago.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
It certainly seems like a tad hypocritical for McCain to accuse Obama of being a socialist when that McCain recently signed up to one of the biggest financial bailouts ever. You can't blow hot and cold about government intervention when you feel like it if you're going start slinging mud at others.
I do really wish that we would move past the single-vote plurality system when voting for federal office (President, Senate, House). I like approval voting for its simplicity and its moderating effect. I love the idea that it might be possible to elect a true compromise candidate instead of violently swinging from one extreme to the next.
But that's not what I want the most (nor is it all that likely to happen any time soon).
What I want the most is for the US to finally welcome international inspectors to watch our elections. We expect emerging democracies to admit inspectors, so we really should eat our own dog food. Would it be painful and humiliating? Quite possibly, for the first few years. But it would be a nice step toward shedding our reputation as a nation that says, "Fuck the rest of the world, we're the US-of-goddamn-A." Oh, and it might actually drive improvements to our voting system, just maybe.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Is that the python regex debugger (http://kodos.sourceforge.net/)?
Or are you talking about Kodo beasts (http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/kodobeast.shtml)? Hey, I just noticed, those silly orcs march in 3/4. Gives a whole new meaning to "Waltzing around" :)
Maybe it's a bunch of Japanese drummers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodo_(taiko_group)).
If you ask me, I'd be voting for the giant douche if I could. Although the turd sandwich sure is tasty...
You've got some work to do before you can convince me or anyone that demographic homogeneousness (it's a real word hones' guvna) has anything to do with whether you should look after your citizens or not.
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Brooke Coleman, head of the NFA, calls Obama's position on biofuels "infinitely better" than McCain's. As a daily reader of http://www.greentechmedia.com/ I can tell you that Obama is so so so so so much better than McCain on his understanding of technology and how to use it (great Fast Company mag article on Obama and Facebook worth finding), his understanding of the challenges and opportunitties of renewable energy ( see : http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/driving-change-how-us-prez-candidates-could-impact-cars-5113.html ) and c'mon who is going to make us look better in the eyes of the world??? Obama !!!
I find calls for âoetax reformâ to be somewhat comical, when you take into account the history of American taxation.
The first income tax was in 1862:
âoeThe income tax is imposed upon a certain proportion of the income of these two classes, viz:
1st. Every person residing in the United States; and every citizen residing abroad who is in the employment of the Government of the United States.
2nd. Every citizen of the United States residing abroad and not in the employment of the United States.
Every person in the first class will be taxed at the rate of three percent when his or her annual gains, profits, or income exceed $600 and do not exceed $10,000. Every person in the first class will be taxed at the rate of five percent when his or her annual gains, profits, or income exceed $10,000, after the following deductionsâ¦â (From the 1962 Federal Income tax Return http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/cf7c9c870b600b9585256df80075b9dd/9134d0498e7c820085256e4400040844?OpenDocument )
$600 in 1862 is $15,000 in 2007.
Congress then got fast and loose with their terms and the Supreme Court over turned a law in 1894 in the Pollock Case, because the language was not clear if it violated the Constitution or not. This then was the impetus for the 16th amendment, which is a very poorly worded amendment⦠But eventually we get to a tax of 1% on incomes over $3000 ($75,000 in 2007), topping out at only 6% in incomes of excess than $500,000 (12,500,000).
Those are truly modest amounts compared to what we pay today.
Prior to our modern income tax scheme, the Federal government was funded mainly by import tariffs. Congress would get to bicker on what to raise or lower the tariff on, sugar and cotton were favorites. The problem was this meant a man of meager means paid a larger portion of his earnings to fund the federal government. It was then proposed that the government be able to tax the vast sums of accumulated wealth of the likes of the Rockefellers, the J.P. Morgans, etc, which held about 80% of the wealth of the nation. The reasoning was money that creates money through investment should be taxed because no effort is expended in the creation of the additional wealth. Also, as an excise tax on the increase, the original principal is left untouched to continue to grow.
The speeches in congress at the time were quite noble, the idea was to remove the burden of funding the federal government from the poor or common man to those who could better afford to pay it. People spoke nobly about it, and that is was an instrument that would be wielded with considerable care as it would a direct line into the bank account and household of every American.
Given our current state of affairs: 30%+ taxes, bail out after bail out, it seems that any modern tax âoereformâ is just a shell game. True reform could only come as a consequence of government reform, and specifically the role of government. As we go forward, we continually enlarge the role of the federal government. We never talk about doing away with federal governmental operation, because we think more of something we want must be better. For example, the Department of Education. We all want education, so we are too scared to eliminate the department of it, because that might mean that our county-operated schools might suffer (how exactly?). We are contemplating national healthcare which we all know to be an active industry full of people inventing new ways to spend money. It grows 3x the rate of the GNP.
People are going to the polls today to vote for either big government or bigger government.
I am reminded of the words of Alexander Tyler (1787):
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Ok, as a Republican there are many things to be bitter about in an Obama administration but there are a few plus sides. So, rather than whining about the fact that a socialist is in charge, let's accept that we can't win an election when we follow up the most unpopular president in history with an erratic mummy.
So, while we regroup for 2012, there are some bright spots to look for in Republicans.
a) alternative energy picks. Obama's going hog wild with alternative energy so hopefully those of us who have taken a beating investing in alternative energy company will finally see some positive returns. Who cares about Obama's doubling of the capital gains tax when stocks like NBF wind up as 10 bangers.
b) democratic socialism favors the status quo. Pure socialism is of course the death of wealth but democratic socialism of the european style which Obama proposes has the effect of slowing down social change and thus preserving old money. So if you've got that big old trust, you'll pay a higher tax but that company grandma gave you will enjoy a better playing field.
c) an overall stock market boom. Yeah, the it sucks that the big media talked the economy down to get Obama elected, but, on the bright side, the big media is going to start pulling out all sorts of facts and figures about the signs of bottoming out, the recovery, etc, and while red state industries will go back taking their usual democratic beating (like farming, mining and oil)... at least there will be other industries to invest in.
d) stronger dollar and more foreign investment. As dumb as it is, the world likes stupid democratic socialism, and that America goes that way will paradoxically bolster American capitalism as it will create the perception of an America being a safer place to invest in - at least until those capital gains tax bills kick in.
e) Jay Rockefeller and Bill Ford go to jail. It's a bonus, but at some point, the IRS and DOJ are going to break through that UBS wall to Swiss banking and find out that so many liberals actually don't pay their taxes by hiding their money in Switzerland. And, if they don't go to jail, and the investigation mysteriously dies, then, we Republicans would know exactly where to park our money so that Obama's tax increases won't matter nearly as much as we worry about.
This is my sig.
What with everyone following the Election on blogs, Twitter, TV, Youtube, radio and so on, will the whole internet slow to a crawl when the results get announced?
Got there at 8, no line, no electronic machines, no chads. Our ballots you just complete arrows with a marker. Now I just hope this means my friends will stop emailing out every bit of anti-Obama propaganda they can get their hands on.
I agree that the Nordic countries have a good setup, but these countries are nowhere near the economic or physical size of the US. They also have oil resources which make a huge difference on a per capita basis.
It is a nice idea, but I think the application of these economic systems on the U.S. is complete fail... in this century anyway.
See today's other article regarding the capacity of a steganographic channel. My guess is that we'll hide in plain site.
As for me, the first thing I'll do if Obama wins is research how to "offshore" our savings. I just want to make sure we don't get caught in the "you're too wealthy" trap just because we've lived within our means, saved, managed our debts, etc.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
cause we're screwed either way. Welcome to the United Corporations of America!
Since when does "intellectual whoredom" make someone a bad candiadate? That kidn of thing has been going on for decades but NOW...damnit...NOW you're going to take a STAND! Spare me the band-wagon outrage.
Sorry about the mess.
I don't read that as criticising the constitution for limiting powers so much as for not enumerating responsibilities - something I'd agree with.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
So fallacies have a grain of truth. For instance, if you know that students' grades are normally distributed around a "C+", and kid #1 has a "D-", then in the absence of other information it's pretty likely that kid #2 did better than kid #1. Not saying that totally matches this particular situation, I'm just talking about fallacies in general.
That's the point, though. The Constitution doesn't enumerate responsibilities (powers) of the government, it limits them.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
... he is talking about redistribution of income by taxing people he decrees to be 'making too much' and handing out checks to people to don't pay any taxes at all.
As I just corrected someone earlier on this same note - the bolded part of your comment is a fabrication. Obama's tax rebate only goes to taxpayers. The half-truth in your statement is that the tax rebate can be given to people who don't pay federal income tax.
The bigger the economy, the more it gains from looking after its people. You sure you thought that one through?
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
As far as I can tell, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41, Gingrich, and Bush 43 all moved to increase the size of government, and make it more intrusive in the lives of ordinary people, and 'freeing the markets' often has meant letting corrupt idiots take the wheel and drive us off the road.
Ike, Nixon, and the two Bushes were never small-government conservatives. Nor is McCain, for that matter. Goldwater-esque libertarianism has never quite managed to dominate the culture of the Republican Party. Show up for a caucus meeting sometime and you'll see what I mean.
For the most part, Reagan and Gingrich both fought hard to reduce the size of government, with the exception of Reagan's ramp-up of military spending. Those who would like to see the GOP return to it's free-market roots are quick to point out that Reagan & Gingrich are not only two of the most successful Republicans in recent history, they are also looked back on much more positively than their "moderate" counterparts.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
People like you make me lose hope in the capability of America to drag itself up out of the shit bath it is currently in. The level of pure dumbass stupidity in your post would be one thing, except that there seems to be a whole load of your "OMG SOCIALIST!!!!!!1111(one)" loony friends here on slashdot.
Did you lot ever stop to think that although some small things might get better or worse under Obama (or under McCain) that the general state of your nation or your way of life is not going to change much.
If you earn over $250000 and now have to pay an extra percent tax, will that really be the nation destroying thing you make it out to be?
If free health care or obligatory health insurance (or, for fuck's sake, even just fucking medical insurance reform in the way of regulating payouts and rates) would it be the soul destroying rape of the nation that you make it out to be?
If you had a president who actually talked to his enemies BEFORE sending in the bombers and troops, would that be the selling out of a proud military tradition, or would it be (finally) putting some sanity back into American foreign policy that almost no one internationally trusts any more?
Stop acting like Nov 5 will be the end of the earth if your favourite nutjob doesn't make it into the white house.
Right because its ok for someone to 'redistribute' my money so long as they are smart.... Sheesh..
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
Joe the Plumber was investigated more thoroughly than William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and Tony Rezco, combined.
However, the three subjects (the plumber doesn't count) were brought up by either McCain, Palin or even Hillary back in the primaries.
As for the so-called plumber, spare us, please. Who invokes his name every thirty seconds, Obama? No, McCain and Palin. He's also gotten himself an agent and wants to cut a country music album, the asshole wants and seeks all the free publicity he can get. Then he said things so outlandish, that he was smacked down on Faux News, of all places! Once again, please, spare us.
How often did the media bring up McCain's associations with characters like Gordon Liddy, Charles Keating and that Texas megachurch crackpot, who supports Israel so it can be destroyed to bring about the second coming in his lifetime?
Moreover, how often have the press stated the fact that the Bush and Bin Laden families were business partners and have been dear, dear friends for decades now? Much less often than we've heard the names Ayers and Wright.
Y'all quit with the cherry pickin' now, it's become extremely tiresome, leads to nowhere and says more about you than about whatever it is you're talking about.
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
Anything that can be viewed as even slightly socialist is quickly attacked. There is no inherent weakness or flaw in socialism or communism for that matter but every single implementation of either one on a national level in any country in modern history has been bad. Socialized medicine has had this view applied to it.
There are certain truths in the arguements against socialized medicine such as direct government control. All things, when viewed from a very high level must be summarized. Medical costs fall into this category. The management will look at regional expenses but not at individual expenses and coverage will suffer.
What we need is something of a hybrid system. Government oversight and insurance mandates as well as tax incentives for providing insurance. If this is done, the medical industry must compete for patients or rather compete to be on the 'in-network' list for insurance providers.
I'm not for bigger government at all. I think that a well designed oversight agency can create an environment where the industry it serves must self regulate by the rules of capitolism. Many of our government agencies are only necessary because the oversight agency at the top is inefficient.
Just my thoughts. Thanks
I wish I could get that low of error in any experiment I do...
According to wiki the mayan calendar started in about 3000BC (I'm just rounding it a bit here). So 30 days in 5000 years (tongue in cheek math alert!):
0.08 years/5000 = 1e-5
Whats that, one part in 100,000?
Without atomic clocks too!
Actually...now that I think about it I'm kinda scared...
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Oh please. You can't seriously claim that a destroyed pagan civilization is comparable to the end of the world.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Finland has no oil resources. In fact, it's only natural resources are trees, and the export of wood fluctuates widely. Yet, it adopted the welfare state and saw wild economic growth. Only Norway has significant oil resources among the Nordic countries. Neither Sweden nor Denmark have them either, and they have welfare states that are just as strong.
At least I hope someday everyone will agree and kill this form of advertising. Hello, I do not live in a cave, I know who's running and for what in my state. I work at home, so every call is potentially important, and I don't need to have my time wasted by a telephone recording.
It's a pity the do not call list doesn't apply to non profits or PACs.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
People like you make me lose hope in the capability of America to drag itself up out of the shit bath it is currently in. The level of pure dumbass stupidity in your post would be one thing, except that there seems to be a whole load of your "OMG SOCIALIST!!!!!!1111(one)" loony friends here on slashdot.
For example? Well, nevermind, I don't think you could come up with one.
Did you lot ever stop to think that although some small things might get better or worse under Obama (or under McCain) that the general state of your nation or your way of life is not going to change much.
Um, I believe I specifically cited energy costs and rising costs of utilities. That's going to affect everyone, and it'll hit the low-income class hardest.
But I digress, the level of dumbass in YOUR post is too much to waste much time addressing...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Voting for either of them - that's what doesn't make sense.
It depends... Socialism is about redistributing from the rich to the poor, not the reverse. That would be more like... roberbaronism ?
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Once the election is over, how long must we wait before prosecuting Bush for his crimes?
if by Presedential you mean "evading any probing question and refusing to give open press conferences for over a month" then yeah, Obama's got the Presedential thing down pat.
And half of the mud flinging was from him onto him so that he could accuse his opponents of doing it. How many times did Obama himself mention his race as being used against him? Compare that to how many times McCain ever attacked him on race; excluding all those 'code words' the press worked overtime to find. (When 'socialist' becomes code for 'black' you know they're really reaching.)
It's relatively easy to appear above the fray when you can just send your talking points to the press and let them do all the attack work. In many cases the reporters have gotten so lazy they even use the exact word for word copy, they don't even bother to pretend it's not straight from the campaign.
Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
I don't like in the US you insensitive clod.
... and today's pet project has
And here I was hoping to make our federal government *more* limited..
The thing that bothers me *most* about Obama is they longing eye with which he looks to Europe... Sorry but I dont agree with the European Nanny State mentality..
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
Hear hear!
I used to be a big McCain fan. In fact when it looked like he wasn't going to win the primary a buddy and I were discussing how tought it would be to choose between Obama and McCain. Well, McCain sure made that choice alot easier.
What is really sad is that we were discussing this on a plane ride over for an Iraq tour...who would have thought that McCain would have driven away so much of the veteran vote?
Very sad to see a man I considered decent and honorable to fall so far so fast.
Someone is going to have to tell me how this post is any better than a Muslim fundamentalist wanting a global Caliphate.
Because it's an extremely well-reasoned thought? Because he doesn't want to appoint a Christian dictator of the world (indeed, he says that he believes Christians should submit to the state, but shouldn't worry overmuch about it, as their goal is heavenly, not earthly)?
I'll be blunt: did you read this gentleman's post, or did you get as far as him mentioning religion, and then ignore what he said to bash him?
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The problems you mention have everything to do with government losing the balance between individual and state responsibility. Rationally and logically, it's still more beneficial to have the problems above and have that great big safety net, than not. However, I agree that it has gone too far when people are no longer allowed to assess and take risks themselves. This should always be kept in balance, and this is part of the lesson to be learned from these countries.
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Wait... when does the Electoral College vote? :-P
Did I say overlords? I meant protectors.
I showed up to vote at 6:00 am. After waiting in line for 45 minutes I found that my voter registration is still tied to an old address and I had to go to a different county to vote. The other county is in a different Congressional district, so I didn't get to vote for my Congressman. I didn't get to vote for any of my elected county officials, either. Oh, and I got a speeding ticket while driving around in unfamiliar locations while searching for the correct place to vote. Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Why is this thus? What is the reason for this thusness?
It just was not so obvious. Al Gore sold his vote on the first Gulf War for extra media coverage so he could get some more name recognition for a run at the '92 election.
From the GPP
I believe that it is no accident that here (as elsewhere) Paul borrows political imagery to describe the church--the church is, in fact, an alternative power structure that should fundamentally subvert traditional power relationships.
Emphasis mine.
Now do you get what I was talking about?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
> Actually, Adam Smith (the guy who basically invented Capitalism) was also in favor of the rich being taxed
> at a higher rate than the poor, so that's not a good argument.
Progressive taxation is debatable but people of good intent can argue both sides and still be good Capitalists and traditional Americans. The government must have revenue, even if it were bound back to only doing the things it should be doing. The question of how to raise those funds with the least impact on the citizenry is valid.
What Obama is proposing is a different thing. He isn't talking about how best to fund the operations of the government, he is talking about redistribution of income by taxing people he decrees to be 'making too much' and handing out checks to people to don't pay any taxes at all. And that is Socialism/Communism. From Each according to their Abilities, to Each according to their Need. It doesn't get more clear cut.
This is called a straw man argument. Obama doesn't support this policy. McCain simply claims he does, ignoring that Obama's tax plan is the same as the one we had under Bill Clinton. McCain argued vehemently against Bush's tax cuts when they were enacted, and now that Obama's plan is to simply let the tax cuts for those making over $250k/year expire, he's labeling that socialism. The McCain that existed until 2008 and Obama agree on this.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Frankly the 1-party thing was a drum I beat for 6 years, and I'm tired of beating on it. The Republicans need a good old fashioned asswhipping to kick their sorry asses back toward the middle and maybe, maybe to kick some of the damn social conservatives back into their caves. At the very least their massive arrogance needs to have some holes shot in it.
When good Sentors like Chuck Hagel and Arlen Specter are called traitors to their party because they don't suck up to the social conservatives, there is something seriously wrong.
The absolute LAST thing we need in this country is two parties who think they've got the right to legislate how we live our lives.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Would you vote for a stupid and incapable man who agrees with your every fundamental value?
Again, probably not. Real people don't just have one of two extreme values - they exist in shades of gray. If you're not willing to settle in some ways, you would end up either not voting or voting for yourself because you could never trust anyone else to have the exact values you have.
Our government is a compromise. One of the drawbacks of that compromise is that those governing may do things you don't agree with. The benefits, of course, being that you don't feel as responsible when things go wrong and you don't have to spend as much of your time managing things. On the whole, it works well enough. If it didn't we'd all pull a Thoreau and stop paying taxes or a Gandhi and clog up the streets in protest.
Most people agree that the government isn't perfect and neither are the candidates. Ideally we'd have a candidate who is brilliant and charismatic and capable who can bridge the differences between the people at home and away. They'd also be able to work closely with the other branches of the government to get the most done for the citizens who they represent. And ideally the core values of the majority would be supported while the core values of the minority would be respected. But that's not always the case and it certainly isn't the case with either McCain or Obama.
That being said, I think Obama is close enough for me. I don't agree with all of his core values but I trust him enough to believe if my values fall into the minority under his presidency that he'll at least respect mine.
PS: Isn't it awesome that after 2 years of what was essentially political science classes running 24/7 on American TV that we can skip right over the rhetoric and cut into the issues without falling into these "he's a socialist!" arguments? :D And people say Fox news isn't helpful.
newyorkcountrylawyer for President 2012!
1368127 is prime!
Easily said if you are lucky enough to be able to *exercise* that choice. For instance, I'm not bound to where I live, but would I be wanted and accepted by the land I want to be in? This depends vastly on where I was born (thanks to so much institutionalised racism when it comes to moving & travelling between countries), and on my education & employability.
On the flipside of your argument, if you're from, say, Norway, and you want to move, you've a higher chance of having had a meaningful and fruitful education, enabling you to make a far wider range of choices.
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
The Regan Coalition put the two together because so long as each is willing to be slightly pragmatic they can greatly help each other. As a social conservative and fiscal populist I could care less if my taxes are 28 or 30% so long as the Government stays the hell out of my life and some basic things happen:
1) Abortion ends (But along with that we have to pay the social price to support single mothers and enable safe adoption)
2) Teachers became agents of Parents and not agents of the state (like it used to be before the NEA got so damn powerful)
3) Stay out of people bedrooms, kitchens, and Doctors offices.
4) If its not in the constitution leave it to the states
5) Secure the border (if we need more immigrants to support the economy then let them in legally)
--
That's all I'm really after and Ill vote the person most likely to do that. The problem is many other social conservatives get up in arms over homosexuality, prayer in school, ..., ... Fiscal Conservatives are so obsessed with Free trade and tax rates that they ignore government spending. This is what has destroyed the Regan coalition. I fully expect the Dem wins today to re-scope and re-focus the groups and you will start seeing gains in the house and senate in 2012..
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
Please, don't even try to say that the press has been fair during this election.
I don't think anyone's making that argument. Just out of curiosity, is there a single newspaper in America that's acknowledging that there are more than two candidates in the Presidential race?
--saint
Every modern country is moving towards a mish mash of the various institutions and ideas that are labeled 'socialism' and 'capitalism', and has been moving this way for a long long time.
Thank you for not using the word "mashup". Also, I agree with you coward.
You'll have that sometimes...
I think you are imagining things in order to fit your ideology. Searching in Google for these guys (even restricting searches to Google's News 2008 archive) turns up far more results for Ayers, Wright and Rezko than for Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher.
Maybe you should try the test before you are made to look foolish.
Resultsfor "Joe the Plumber": 1 - 10 of about 29,040 for Joe-the-plumber. (0.46 seconds)
Resultsfor Reverend Wright: 1 - 10 of about 1,063 for Reverend Wright. (0.16 seconds)
Results for "William Ayers":Results 1 - 10 of about 18,930 for William-Ayers. (0.29 seconds)
Results for "Tony Rezko": Results 1 - 10 of about 1,936 for tony-rezko. (0.19 seconds)
(Reverend Wright was not in quotes. With quotes, it was about 460 hits)
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
No, it isn't. The Presidential election is on Dec. 15th this year.
The only people being elected today are congresscritters and local pols.
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
Just like capitalism is great, in theory.
When the theory hits the practice... well, by now we all know what pure capitalism without some checks and balances leads to.
The media has done a poor job really telling us anything about the candidates. Yes, an intelligent voter who wants to be informed on the issues can go find the information on their own, but the campaigns and the media coverage of the campaigns has done little to help the situation.
Even NPR is guilty of horse race coverage rather than covering the issues.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
McCain abandoned his opposition to torture? This would be the McCain who said in a national debate:
"I'm astonished that you haven't found out what waterboarding is... Then I am astonished that you would think such a - such a torture would be inflicted on anyone in our - who we are held captive and anyone could believe that that's not torture. It's in violation of the Geneva Convention"
That's pretty clear cut. Regardless of whether McCain is the best man for the job of President, his clear anti-torture stance - which went against the general Republican stance at the time - was something he should be admired for.
Bipartisanship is a good thing...if you don't have the unshakable certainty that everything you do is right.
I'm always open to the idea that my views aren't perfect. The biggest problem I have with the Republicans and the Social Right, is that they are certain that everything they do is perfect, and everyone who disagrees is not only wrong, but also a bad, evil person.
It's amusing that they even turn on other politicians who are conservative, just not as conservative as they are. I've got one of the most conservative democrats in the entire house in my district, and the republicans spend millions every election cycle trying to unseat him...A guy who votes with Bush more often than he votes with his own party, and yet that's not enough for them, he has to be a complete republican robot.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Cite? Russia frequently has the highest rates of alcoholism in the world, and Finland, Lithuania and Hungary have vied for highest suicide rates in the world. I've never heard Denmark come anywhere close to the top.
Observation 1:
It would appear that the Rep. Party never had a clear plan on winning. McCain at his age would have had a difficult time going for a second term. It would appear more that it was more about stopping Hillary then anything else. Once she lost the primary they took the opportunity to field test a female presidential canidate by putting Palin in as the VP. Not so much to test her as a presidential candidate but to see what issuea a conservative female canidate woul dhave to address (they have seen what a female liberal side via Clinton.)
Observation 2:
Obama and McCain have brought the divisive nature of modern American politics to the flash point. I fear, regardless of who wins, we are one step closer to civil war and degenerating into a third world warzone. Iraqq may have a sectariant problem but the US sectarian problem is just about to hit flash point. With the level of violence and hate this election by both sides I fear it is only getting worse after the election. The militant nature of each of the extremes is growing and the moderate voices are drowned out by the ravings of lunatics that can accept nothing but their own exterme and warped view of how things should be.
Observation 3:
The old saying, "the election is about the lesser of two evils" is reaching the point that which ever the "lesser" is, the suffering that will result (direct or indirect) is making it the choice of "a quick death or a slow death."
Observation 4:
The behavior of both canidates and their supporters, the fact that neither canidate will take responsibility to control their more extremist supporters, the media is no longer bothering to even attempt to conceal their bias, the lack of true journalism, the double standards, and their tactics; has convinced me that both the Democrat and Republican parties are morally bankrupt and I can no longer, in good faith, offer any canidate endorsed by those parties my vote. In addition, the primary news media cannot and must not be trusted at this point. This election was the last draw. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Times, Washington Post, etc... have failed their duty to provide Americans with the truth. Journalism has been replaced by editorial nonsense.
R.I.P Joe Friday.... "Only the fact..."
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I worry about Obama becoming president and then when the case finally makes it to the Supreme Court and it is proved that he isn't a citizen - then what happens? There are many good reasons to suspect that he is actually an illegal alien. http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/l/lawyersues.htm
So far the only irregularity I've encountered is that I got an odd phone call, anonymous number, purporting to be from the Obama campaign, telling me that my polling place had changed to one that's clear across the city, in a completely different county. I'm suspicious... And wish I had a good place to report that sort of thing.
--Somebody infect me with a
Afford a tank of gas? Think about retiring?
Look someone in the eye and say, "In the US we don't torture prisoners of war, we don't unilaterally invade other countries, we don't imprison our citizens without a trial, and we don't allow the government to spy on citizens without due process of law."
If you can look back on the last 8 years without feeling sick with shame, there is a problem.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
You've got some work to do before you can convince me or anyone that demographic homogeneousness (it's a real word hones' guvna) has anything to do with whether you should look after your citizens or not.
I wouldn't argue that. As I said, "personally, I do believe in socialized healthcare and education". And to use your words, I completely believe you should look after your citizens, regardless of demographic homogeneity (that is a word). I just don't think it's as easy in less homogeneous countries, and you can't just say "the way they do it in Sweden works for Sweden so it'll work for us".
This space up for sale.
Yeah, but that had everything to do with a small group of bankers borrowing heavily from international money markets, investing in bad assets, and those assets subsequently falling in value, and nothing to do with how they organise their own society (whether you call it socialism, or not).
Done. Fill in the circle with a sharpie. Very easy.
Tried to pick the ones that will do the least damage.
Too many people are emotionally involved and can not make rational choices that help rather than hinder.
So you think Jack Thompson is gonna try for 2012? Well, at least that may result in electronic voting going out the door, being videogames and all.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Yep, and the UK, France, Germany and much of the rest of Europe are stunning examples of the failure of socialism. They're cutting back on social programs and privatizing where they can because they just can't sustain the system. And they've got these problems despite the fact that people are taxed heavily at all income levels.
One thing that always gets me is how people compare a nation like Denmark or Japan to the US. Those countries have relatively small and homogenous populations, unlike the US. They're in a situation where they have most of the population paying the system ensuring it's sustainable.
And even then, eventually problems arise, like in Japan, because of declining birth rates there aren't enough people paying in to support the aging population. From everything I've seen, unless we completely abandon any monetary system socialism is always doomed to failure in the long run.
Bankrupted by an out-of bounds banking industry that was totally deregulated and ten times larger than the Iceland GDP i.e. the real Icelandic economy. These banks were counter parties to many Wall street institutions that pushed their toxic sludge bonds on the Icelandic banks. Totally not related to their welfare system.
Nice try though.
Hmm... seems like they may have been right on... Obama and Biden will have pretty well fudged things up by then...
The question is not an ideal, 'what it gains,' but whether it is practical. And it is not.
Very few pro-life Christian conservatives that I know would propose legislation against abortion in cases of rape, risk to the life of the mother, or in extremely rare cases like the one you mentioned where it is known the baby will be born dead. The issue that I take is with the other 99% of abortions. Your argument is a straw man, and it's the most common logical fallacy I've encountered in the abortion debate.
Exactly why I'm voting Obama. The supreme court needs to be a 5/4 split on most issues. If it isn't then whomever is in the majority can ram through any precedent they want.
As someone who lives in the UK, it's obvious to me that the failure of socialism here came about largely due to the privatisation of the services.
Ummmm this is generally how dems behave as well, that somehow they are the sophisticated light and anything else just isn't socially acceptable or permissible. At least republicans take a stand on issues rather than constantly whining about how they would have done things better and dangling theories in front of their party members. "Oh if a democrat were president 9/11 would never have happened" "If a democrat were president, we wouldnt be in the war" "if if if...for the love of pete, give it up and SHOW the world things will be better". Yes I voted blue this round, but as the Simpsons democrat quote goes "We will screw it up somehow".
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
The first Monday after the second Wednesday in December. Which, in 2012, will be December 17.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
A bit off?
Yea, the MSB
First of all, most republican and conservatives opposed the bailout. The politicians forced it down everyone's throat. The democrats probably supported it more enthusiastically because they're the ones getting campaign contributions from these banks. Obama was among the top of the list in contributions from Lehman Brothers among others.
Secondly, in what way, exactly, have you lost civil liberties or human rights? I see people as free to do whatever they please as they always have, if not more so.
Don't worry, it would be worse if it was an idiot lawyer.
I disagree.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I could drive fifteen minutes across the Peace Bridge to eat Chinese food and look at strippers without carrying a goddamned passport.
Ridiculous, batshit crazy security theatre nonsense designed to keep people constantly afraid.
--saint
Communism doesn't kill people, people kill people
I disagree! People with mustaches kill people.
Those of us who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
You're contraction of you are.
Your, possessive.
One can not have a "going", nor can you have an ignorant.
Yet as evidenced by your comment one can be ignorant.
Republicrat or Demican, two sides to the same coin.
Nothing is foolproof, fools are too ingenious. - Murphy
Republicans and Democrats have been playing this game of football for many many years. The best that either party can do, given the reality or politics in Washington, is move the ball a few feet one direction or the other toward their endzone.
Third party candidates don't even have any teammates in the game, but they promise that if elected they will score a touchdown, despite the fact that both major parties in congress will be their opposition.
As a McC/P supporter, I certainly hope Nader gets lots of votes!
I don't think you get what he's talking about. He's saying that the church is an alternative power structure (undisputably true), but he isn't saying the church should rule in place of what is there now. He's saying that Christians shouldn't be devoted to the state - obedient, yes, but their true allegiance should lie elsewhere. The Christian's first devotion is to God, but that doesn't mean Christians seek to forcibly impose Christianity on the world. This is the fundamental difference between the OP and what you were comparing it to.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
I too was so happy to hear we are going back to paper next time around. It always worked well -- I never heard of any problems with the Scantron ballots.
Waited 45 minutes this morning. There were about 15 of the Diebold machines at my polling place, but only two or three had voters at any given time because the election judges were taking so long to get people checked in.
--Insert catchy
"Once you are past the tipping point, any further votes are not warped, they are unnecessary and a waste."
this is how you think about your vote
but if the way you think about your vote is logically valid, it is something we should all embrace. and if more people didn't vote simply because "my vote doesn't matter", then no one votes, or, more accurately, the election is decided by the random few who do vote. in places like california or new york (where i live, and i voted democratic, and new york is going democratic if i didn't vote), the state could swing republican if so many democrats think like you do (and in fact, many do, and it is a major problem, since it means republicans win where they otherwise wouldn't)
here is a direct demoonstration of that:
anyone reading this who is not going to vote, i have nothing for you but the most withering disgust i can muster
there are many arguments as to why it is important for you to vote, but here's probably the best one i can think of right now:
2,912,790 to 2,912,253
that's 500 votes that decided the election for bush rather than gore
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/DetailRpt.Asp?ELECTIONDATE=11/7/00&RACE=PRE&PARTY=&DIST=&GRP=&DATAMODE=
it gave us the last 8 years of fail: 500 votes
in these numbers, are those responsible for our worst president ever:
8,752,717 to 6,138,765
thats two million florida voters, who THINKING EXACTLY LIKE YOU THINK, gave us 8 years of bush, of invading iraq, of not caring about katrina, of letting unregulated irresponsibility reign on wall street and detroy the economy. over 2 million people, who most certainly would have swayed the vote to gore instead of bush
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/TurnoutRpt.asp?ElectionDate=11/7/00&DATAMODE=
people, who think just like you, are the kind of people who gave us 8 years of bush
the only morally and intellectually honest and valid opinion about the value of your vote is you must vote. because otherwise, like you, you become a parasite, depending upon other people to express your will for you. if enough people do that, an invalid will is expressed, a will that is not an accurate representation of the will of the people
in other words, parsitical attitudes like yours destroy democracy
you are a parasite. you are a major asshole. it is people who think just like you who destroy this country
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
[sarcasm]As opposed to Bush, who, as we all know, was a great respecter of the Constitution.[/sarcasm]
Obama is an expert on the Constitution to a level that is hard to even define...He taught Constitutional law at one of the most prestigious law schools in the country. So it's not unreasonable that he may have criticisms of the document, the same way any expert may have criticisms of things under his area of expertise.
But I do not think that he has anything like the arrogance and disrespect for the law and the Constitution that has been shown in the last 8 years, and having anyone imply that with a straight face makes me laugh.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
shuttup you! =)
European Nanny State . . . I hope you'll clarify that. I have found the US to be far more of a nanny state. To illustrate: when I was in holland I observed many places where the canals were not blocked by railings etc. I asked a friend what happened if a car were to drive into the canal. The driver is fined and also pays for any damages they caused. IN the US we mandate that railings and bollards be positioned so that an idiot could not drive into the canal, out of fear that the state would be held liable for injuries that might result.
This is extended further, to staircases with no railings (ours cannot have any place for a 4" sphere to pass through), bars and swimming pools together, nudity in public (hot springs and beaches), and any number of other examples.
I'm sure you have your examples of the EU being more of a nanny state, and I'm interested to hear . . .
The biggest flaw in the US elections is that you have a system in which only candidates from the two principle parties can be elected. Add to that the fact that the backers and leadership of both parties is essentially the same (admittedly some minor differences) and you have what amounts to a single party system. We all know what a great idea that is. In other parts of the world, you can have eleven serious candidates for an election and have a real horse race between 3-4 really different candidates. This is good. Although I realize that my vote is meaningless, I often vote for other party candidates on principle. Better to vote for the good guy who won't win than the lesser of two evils - though in a tight race I will vote against someone who is really bad. Ours is a system designed to create apathy.
If you were thinking about retiring before Bush you should not of been in the stock market when it burst.
My stock wealth is back to were it was when the Democrats took over Congress but luckly I had the years of growth before that so it is just a matter of waiting a few more years(3-4) and I will be far above what I previously had.
One think to consider for those retiring if you had put $10,000 dollars in the stock market when Bush was first elected you would still have a better rate of return then if you had gotten the rate of return social security will give.
"I'm sure you have your examples of the EU being more of a nanny state, and I'm interested to hear . . ."
Germany banning homeschooling comes right to mind..
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
Enjoy traveling by airplane. Get on an airplane without taking off my shoes. Believe that America would never torture anyone, and everyone received due process. Click on a odd ball link about terrorism and wonder if I am being put in a database somewhere. Bring a screwdriver or nail clippers with me on an airplane. Use the word terrorist in a post and wonder if I am being put in a database somewhere. Believe my communications were not monitored.
Have faith in the election process.
Feel proud to be an American Citizen.
You must live in a cave if your life has not been impacted by this president.
No more fucking campaign ads (for at least a week).
Here in CA, I guess we're supposed to vote on whether to put all the gays into larger solar powered cages so that the chickens can marry meth dealers.
At least, that what I think all the ads are saying... (They sort of run into each other after a while).
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
I don't know why I bother anymore, but: It's not a bailout or a handout. The first draft Paulson tried to ram through was pretty close to a handout, but now the gov is taking stakes in banks.
Is it a handout when I buy stock in a bank, expecting to make a return? Now obviously there are other motivations than profit here for the government (i.e. to steady the credit markets, prevent failures, etc) but they MAY come out in the black on this. Buffet made this point clear when he said he'd gladly take a 1% stake in this given the chance. He supported it.
Nice try.
But there are alternative search phrases, as you note. Let's check some others.
Hardly the massive media conspiracy you describe.
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
> And it's well known-that one of your good high school buddies was a pedophile.
> I'm going to show up at your job tomorrow and let everyone there know about
> how you like to pal around with pedophiles. You cool with that?
No retard, if you really can't see the difference there is no hope for ya.
If Axelrod went off the rails this afternoon (just too much stress) and shot up a shopping center nobody would accuse Obama of hanging with a mass murderer. It would correctly be seen as a tragedy. Had Ayers been all talk and no bomb until suddenly going off this week and blowing up some crap, again, it would be wrong to give any serious grief to Obama because a longtime associate got sudden jihad/revolution syndrome. But as Team Obama is always pointing out, Ayers started blowing stuff up when Obama was a wee lad of eight. That doesn't excuse the relationship, it is what makes it so bad. Ayers was the University of Chicago's Star Celebrity Terrorist, the notion that Obama was the only guy in town who didn't know about Ayers is simply not plausible.
And that's assuming you don't believe Ayers and Obama first met in Chicago and not at Columbia. Both were there and had Edward Said as a common connection. Obama as a student, Ayers as co-consirator.
Democrat delenda est
Quick Biblical example, that may help show what he is talking about. Paul and Peter BOTH promoted submission to the ruling authority in the midst of a time when that authority wasn't necessarily friendly to their religious views. They kept on preaching because they believed that their calling was something the state didn't have the authority to tell them not to do; however, they willingly went to their deaths as martyrs and NEVER disputed the power of the state to take their lives for disobeying the laws.
You are forgetting about the american dream. The dream that one day YOU will be elite, the rich, the powerful. Eat dirt today because tomorrow you will be eating cake. And of course, if you are eating cake tomorrow, you hardly want to share that cake or have it turned into bread for all. No, eat dirt today, because tomorrow...
It is the american dream. If you were cynical, you might see it as a near perfect ploy to keep the masses content. Not that dissimilar to how certain religions do it. Suffer life now, the after-life will see you rewarded. Never mind dear suicide bomber that you are pisspoor despite millions in support to the palestines. Your reward awaits you in heaven, never mind that your leaders life in luxury in the west (check were the palestine leadership lives, and for instance how many millions old beard face had and where he houses his wife)
The american dream tells americans that they too can one day have it all, and since one day they will have it all, why should they then share it or ask those who have it now to share?
Make no mistake, the american dream is the ultimate enslavement tool. Because the truth of course is that NOT everyone can make it, no matter how they try because a capatalist system needs its homeless to allow for the superrich. The american dream at best is an lottery, but one where the winners can buy the winning tickets.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I voted Obama a couple weeks ago by mail-in absentee ballot. Give me free karma!
;)
Or alternatively, mod me funny and "redundant" repeatedly to trash my karma.
I think is a bad idea as well.
Capitalism in various amounts is good. But, I think for example we should have a combination approach...
For example, I think some jobs SHOULD be moved over seas, but not at the expense of destroying our own markets.
Take for example steel production.
I think we should buy steel aboad, tax it and then subsidize our own industries which produce steel at home.
We can do this with any industry.
It forces some jobs to go over seas, but keeps some of the industrial production here as well.
In other words, I see industrial production of a country to make its own things strategic.
I mean, look what happens when energy prices zoom so high, it no longer makes sense to make things over seas.
So, this sort of thinking protects our supply lines as a nation and keeps people employed working. Compromise.
CEO salaries have to be DRAMATICALLY scaled back in this country. Congress could put a restriction on CEO salaries and compensation by 10 to 1. That way the CEO must REALLY WORK to grow the company, and not just lay off people or get stock options or raid the companies war chest for driving it into the ground.
There should never be more than a 10 to 1 ratio in my opinion of top to bottom. The rest of the that money should go to share holders, company R&D, bonuses, Health Care...etc All the things that make a company grand.
Unfortunately for you all here, either candidates are basically the same. Obama and McCain are the lapdogs of the establishment (i.e. Corporatocracy of America.)
I am not voting for either candidate and get a no vote of confidence from the Hackmeister.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
My wife wants it to be over just so we won't have the tension of living in a house divided between opposing political parties.
Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz screwed this country as hard and fast as they physically could. They can't be frog-marched out of the White House soon enough. The rest of this message rambles a bit, and I apologize for that.
McCain is a GOP robot wearing the flavor of the day.
Obama is a good man that just happens plays the political game better than anyone else. We, as a country, needed for a political party other than the GOP to produce such a candidate.
Everyone, even the rich, need to honor the social contract and pay into the system. Bush cut the taxes on the people that make the most, gave subsidies to the corporations that needed them the least, while the middle class and poor watch their earning power and their jobs dribble away.
We lost thousands of high-earning high tech jobs and gained thousands of low-earning service sector jobs thanks to Bush's policies.
Bush is a religious whack job, and while McCain isn't, his party is beholden to the religious whack jobs for their power.
I'm tired of hoping that the stupid in this country get just smart enough to vote *for* their kids' future and not against it. I'm tired of trying to explain basic economics and social theory to the GOP idiots around me. I'm tired of watching Bush screw this country over.
And I'm tired of the longest election cycle in history.
I'm glad Obama will win. But the fight to exorcise the demons summoned by Bush won't over for a very long time.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
Please provide citations for this. I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that I've heard this complaint before, I don't believe it, and I've never seen any numbers that demonstrate it.
there are many arguments as to why it is important for you to vote, most of it predicated on learned helplessness, a pathological inability to trust, or a bullshit rationalization of laziness: "my vote doesn't matter"
why your vote matters:
2,912,790 to 2,912,253
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/DetailRpt.Asp?ELECTIONDATE=11/7/00&RACE=PRE&PARTY=&DIST=&GRP=&DATAMODE=
that's 500 votes that decided the election for bush rather than gore
it gave us the last 8 years of fail: 500 votes
meanwhile, in these numbers, are those responsible for our worst president ever:
8,752,717 to 6,138,765
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/TurnoutRpt.asp?ElectionDate=11/7/00&DATAMODE= [state.fl.us]
thats two and half million florida voters, who thought "my vote doesn't matter"
they gave us 8 years of bush, of invading iraq, of not caring about katrina, of letting unregulated irresponsibility reign on wall street and detroy the economy, of going full retard on science policy (stem cells, creationism), etc. none of these things gore would have done (an argument, btw, against another bullshit rationalization not to vote: "the candidates are the same")
over two and a half million people, who most certainly would have swayed the vote to gore instead of bush, since its usually the young and minorities who feel disenfrachized, and invent bullshit reasons not to vote
the only morally and intellectually honest and valid opinion about the value of your vote is you must vote. because otherwise, you become a parasite, depending upon other people to express your will for you. if enough people do that, an invalid will is expressed, a will that is not an accurate representation of the will of the people
in other words, parasitical attitudes about not voting destroy democracy
you MUST vote. otherwise, you are a parasite. you are a major asshole. you destroy this country by allowing less favored candidates win. and you really have NO right to complain about the next 4 years about anythign in politics if you do not vote. voting is your chance to let your beliefs sway who goes into the white house. if you choose not to do that, you are beneath withering contempt in my book, and have no right to complain anymore about the state of your world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The abortion issue irritates the crap out of me. I put it right up there with "Staying out of my doctor's office." I agree that it is a socially undesirable, and even barbaric process; however I think that our society is such that it conspires to keep effective birth control and education away from young people, and punishes them (through lost opportunities) for carrying the child to term.
Removing those obstacles and scaling back the demonization of sex and sexuality by the moral conservatives might actually help reduce the number of abortions, something which trying to outlaw it probably won't.
I'm not sure what you mean regarding teachers; I want them to be agents of education, not of someones agenda, and that education should be secular. If you want non-secular education, send your kid to a religious school.
I'm not sure you can call someone a fiscal conservative who believes in government spending. Milton Friedman is (in many ways) my definition of a fiscal conservative, and he was pretty much anti-government spending. It's Keynes who was pro-government spending, and while the Republicans pay lip service to Friedman, it's Keynes they follow. All (mainstream) economists are for free trade, so you can't use that to differentiate.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Once again, I must point out to the politically naive that you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER listen to a politician's WORDS. To get the truth, you must always look at his ACTIONS. And John McCain's action in this matter was quite clear. Back in February when the Senate passed a bill to force the CIA and other government agencies to follow the Army Field manual procedures on enemy interrogation (which specifically bans torture and techniques such as waterboarding), your anti-torture hero John McCain voted against it (even after vocally supporting it earlier and sponsoring an earlier bill to establish this restriction for the Army).
When it comes down to the wire, John McCain's talk is cheap. But we won't have to worry much about that after today.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
And even worse if he walks into a bar and says 'ouch'.
Damn those leap seconds!
You also can't claim that running out of space on the Mayan calendar was a claim that the world would end anymore than using two digit years was.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I could take toothpaste on an airplane.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
;)
The Mayans may have had atomic clocks. Who knows?
The thing is the precedent for this was buying up assets that had actual value. The assets the government is buying up are all but worthless. That's why they're called "poison assets." They have nowhere to go but down. That is why its a bailout - their assets were going to destroy their companies. We bought them, and now the companies have been bailed out. That's why we're calling it a bailout. Because that's what it is. We cover their asses just like we covered the flight industry after 9/11. Some capitalism that is.
you can talk about "penned by Republicans" but even more disturbing Democrats on boards with it without much fuss, even though there were dozens of possible alternatives. In fact, as actually implemented "the bailout" is being utilized somewhat differently than discussed at the time, since language of the law is broad. The Democratic party really doesn't have leadership qualities, they follow and have done a great job of being the Republicans willing flunkies.
Finally, a reasoned argument for voting for one of the two identical evils. I knew I'd eventually find one somewhere in all these posts. However, the amount of damage that a Dem supermajority and Dem president could do together in the interim still seems too high.
I was pleased to see a choice at my polling station of mark sense optical scan ballots or touch screen machines. The paper ballot line was non-existent, and the ballot took very little time to fill in. Kind of like an SAT for housewives and working stiffs. The scanner was attended and the lady working it said it would scan "any way but sideways". That's progress!
Ethics II Axiom 2. "Man thinks." B. Spinoza
Nice try.
But there are alternative search phrases, as you note. Let's check some others.
Hardly the massive media conspiracy you describe.
You need to put "Bill Ayers" in quotes like you did with "Joe the Plumber":
Results 1 - 10 of about 13,131 for bill-ayers. (0.24 seconds)
Same for "Reverend Wright":
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,520 for "Reverend Wright". (0.06 seconds)
Also, I did a straight news search, not the "archives", but it looks like once you provide the quotes, the end result doesn't change as the corrected results still show that "Joe the Plumber" still has more hits than "Bill Ayers" or "Reverend Wright".
Good try though!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
My parents were always staunch Republican voters, but post "Reagan era", I've watched that party slide "off the deep end" into promoting fascism and "big government", while trying to win most of their votes by bashing the Democrats for being the "tax and spend" types we "all have to avoid".
(People can say what they like about Ronald Reagan, but I think in hindsight, it's apparent he was part of a dying breed of American leaders who really believed the United States was "the greatest place in the world to live", complete with our values of freedom as they were written in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I won't try to argue whether or not he "went about some things the wrong way". But I can't envision him talking about our Constitution as a "worthless piece of paper" as Bush, Jr. did - or even continuing to fight a "war on terror" that had no clearly defined "end goal". I'm not even too sure he'd be up there pushing for the huge bailout either.)
The problem *I* now see is, EVERYBODY has abandoned those "3 pillars" you speak of, except for the 3rd. party candidates, who can't even seem to stop fighting amongst themselves this year. (When I heard rumors that Libertarian candidate Bob Barr was going to offer Ron Paul a chance to be his running mate, I got excited for a moment. I think that could have been a powerful enough combination to get some attention for the party. But instead, it seems Ron Paul chose to snub the L.P. - causing them to lash out against him as simply trying to be a "Cult of Personality", etc. Then, the "Constitution party" (who did practically ZERO campaigning) seemed to spend all their effort just encouraging people to "unify" somehow - and vote for Barr, Paul OR their party (pretty please?? with cherries on top?).
An awful lot of people are going to cast a vote for Obama because they feel it's really the ONLY option besides the screwed-up status-quo we've had for decades. My prediction? The "change" he'll give us amounts to being able to say we finally got a president with darker colored skin, and a little more socialism vs. fascism.
Ha ha ha. Hahahahahahaha.
"The abortion issue irritates the crap out of me. I put it right up there with "Staying out of my doctor's office.""
Im sorry you feel that way, to me I put it right up there with every person has the right not to be killed by another person.
"I agree that it is a socially undesirable, and even barbaric process; however I think that our society is such that it conspires to keep effective birth control and education away from young people"
Which, by the way, is why I said society need to stop up and help with women who have kids and to your point they also need to make birth control more available.
"I'm not sure what you mean regarding teachers; I want them to be agents of education, not of someones agenda, and that education should be secular. If you want non-secular education, send your kid to a religious school.
Teachers are watching people kids and as such should be most accountable to *those parents* I, like you, don't want agendas for any side. I don't want School prayer but I also don't want teachers telling 1st graders about different sexual lifestyles..
"I'm not sure you can call someone a fiscal conservative who believes in government spending."
It depends on what the spending is for does it not? Paying down our insane debt, wartime military spending (real wars not faux wars against methods) are of course fine and If someone was going to raise my taxes soley to pay off the national debt I would be in favor. But when you pull out the and better education, medical care, ..., ... then youre not spending money in a conservative manner.
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
I just got back from voting, it seems I picked a good time to go, only had to wait 10 minutes before I was making my selections. The key is to go mid morning or mid afternoon and avoid early morning, lunch, and after work (if possible).
I went in thinking I would just request a paper ballot instead of using the Diebold machines (in Ohio we can request paper ballot if we want)... but at the last minute I decided to go with the machine because I was trying to get in and out quickly (every poll worker was 70+ years old, didn't want to do anything out of the norm). I get to my machine, make my choices.. and went it was printing out the paper ticket so I could review my selections, the paper roll was jammed so nothing was happening. I told a poll worker that it didn't work, and that I wanted to cancel this ballot and do a paper one.
Lesson learned. Of course then they only gave me the first page of the paper ballot (which left off a few local proposals). I pointed out the missing proposals, they found page two, and I got to finish. I was the 9th person to do paper ballot, so the previous 8 didn't get that 2nd page.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
It's very easy to make a black line to complete the arrow, and the scanners are old, fully depreciated and simple - a handful of photodetectors would be enough to find those black lines.
I remember in 92 after voting for Clinton, going to work (at the BMDO in the Pentagon) and having a retired army guy go apeshit on me for 15 minutes, yelling things like "you moron, we'll all be out of work, I hope you're the first one laid off". And then for the next 8 years we had a great time. I started a consulting business, and we grew from 2 to 15 (with revenues over 2 million) contracting with the military. And there were many, many, examples of this exact thing. Look at the spending levels on military during those years. They went down, yet, there were plentiful opportunities.
He pretty much took one of the fundamental tenets of the U.S. government, limited government, and said he doesn't like it. Having vast knowledge about the Constitution doesn't in any way imply that he believes in or respects it.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
An email that reached 35,000 people was sent from the "Provost" last night at 1AM EST telling students the election is being held on Wednesday. I'm sure someone out there believed it. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/11/gmu_e-mail_hoax_election_day_m.html?hpid=topnews
Exactly how much senator work has Obama done in the last two years?
At most places in the state of Washington, normally a swing state, we've had more than 60 percent of people return their absentee ballots before election day or vote early or emergency (e.g. military being posted or sudden business travel).
Additionally, all the polling places have had more people vote in the first hour since they've been open than usually vote all day, so it looks like in person voting in the only two in-person counties (King and another Blue county) is off the charts.
I'm predicting a landslide, and that the GOP will lose two seats in Congress.
Minor problems with some electronic machines, but virtually everyone other than handicapped/disabled/blind votes using paper ballots that are optically scanned - either by mail, dropoff, or in person.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
So that outweighs the examples that I provided? Germany does not equal the entire EU, our education system is handled by each state . . . perhaps you heard someone call the EU a bunch of nanny states and you believed it? Really, if you have something of substance I am interested to hear it.
Don't forget, McCain has cancer. Based on the cancer he has and the amount of lymph nodes he had removed, he has about a 1 in 3 chance of surviving 5 more years.
The financial radio shows I have been listening to here in Europe have put some of the decrease in stocks in the last 2 months because it is realized that Obama will win. If the stock market is going up that would indicate that it is just a freaky day, people happy that is election race is over???, or they think McCain is going to win and the market is correcting itself.
The government has but one responsibility --- to protect its citizens from physical violence. That's it.
If you want more, amend the thing, don't try to sidestep it.
Learn about Photography Basics.
McCain is certainly the lesser of two evils in this election.
They are both Socialist, its only a matter of degrees.
Learn about Photography Basics.
"So that outweighs the examples that I provided?"
Id rather not get into a tit for tat because its pretty much pointless If I came up with the smae number plus one you would get 5 more than I would get 5 more , ..., ...
"Germany does not equal the entire EU"
One of your most powerful and influential member
But if you want *one* example:
European Union Applies 'Hate Speech' Rules To Internet
Opposition to multiracialism, homosexuality, immigration effectively banned under new Internet rules.
BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union will be launching new Internet broadcasting rules later this year.
"The European Commission had a duty to protect shared European values," EU Information Society Commissioner Viviane Reding (pictured) told a broadcasting conference in Liverpool, England. "Who in this room... stands for the freedom to spread incitement to racial hatred on the new media?"
Reding said there was a "broad consensus that hate speech rules should also apply to the Internet."
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=6245
--
If telling people what they can and cant say on the internet is not an example of a nanny I dont know what is..
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
He has a doctorate from Harvard law school, graduated suma cum laude. AND he was president of the Harvard Law review. He worked his way to the top.
So which would you choose, someone who graduated top of the class with a doctorate or someone from the bottom of his class?
I think that Muslim guy's gonna win, there's no way you can lose running on a platform of spare change
I don't trust him. I heard he consorts with Terriers.
Bow-ties are cool.
It's funny you pull mention his talking-point on waterboarding, because John McCain in fact voted against a ban on waterboarding. So his stance is maybe not as clear as you think.
Earlier, we had slashdot stories on the http://www.redistrictinggame.org/ and how it was educating people through video games.
From that, we have finally gotten Prop 11 on the ballot in California thanks to our Governor(ator). Take what you've learned, and vote accordingly. This proposition will have a significant impact on every election to come in California, and you should really put in the time to learn about it.
I doubt it will pass, but I really hope it does. Whatever happens, I hope other states follow in getting this prop on the ballot.
You realize Bush is an idiot lawyer right?
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
It hasn't anything to do with running out of space. December 21, 2012 is the date 13.0.0.0.0. The calendar would run out of space after 19.19.19.17.19, or October 12, 4772. The December 21, 2012 date is based on prophecy, and I don't think anyone here would question the scientific authority of prophecies.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Everything You Wanted to Know About the Obama Online Fundraising Scandal in Less Than 5 Minutes!
Since it is apparently too much effort for the mainstream media (National Journal excepted) to be bothered to investigate what is potentially one of the largest campaign finance fraud scandals ever, we thought we'd set the table for them. Here's a Cheat Sheet if you will on how the story broke and what the important issues are:
1. In early 2007, Obama tells Silicon Valley mogul, Marc Andreeson, to watch how I run my campaign - you'll see my leadership skills in action. Which makes the following account all the more concerning. Can we expect more of the same should Obama assume the seat in the White House?
2. Rumors begin to circulate that the Obama campaign is accepting foreign and other illegal contributions. Atlas Shrugs blog breaks the story on July 23 and confirms the rumors.
3. On October 22, a citizen does his own investigative work and gives an online donation to the Obama campaign with a the fake name of John Galt along with a fake address. Several bloggers quickly follow up on this story with their own investigative work and find that they too can donate to the Obama campaign with fake names and addresses. Most disturbingly, foreign citizens were also able to donate using their foreign issued credit cards with fake foreign addresses.
4. By now, it has become common knowledge that the Obama campaign is the ONLY campaign to NOT disclose their under $200 campaign donor list. No substantive reasons are given by the Obama campaign.
5. On October 24, it is confirmed by the National Journal that the Obama campaign has turned off address verification on their website. This is highly irregular - in fact, it's quite unheard of. Essentially, turning off address verification (known as AVS) enables donors to fake addresses and circumvent donor limits. This means foreigners can give illegal donations and motivated Obama supporters can exceed the $2300 campaign limit! As Internet and e-commerce professionals, we launch this blog to raise the issue of how highly irregular and potentially unethical it is to turn off online credit card address verification.
6. In light of the aforementioned and in light of the record $150 million haul Obama brought in during the month of September from over 600 thousand new, mostly unidentified, donors, this blog attempts to size the problem. We calculated that over $181 million of Obama's donations fall into the potentially fraudulent category.
7. On October 29, the Obama campaign is quoted favorably in the Washington Post as checking for fraud on the back-end. The Obama campaign did not elaborate on what this means and the Washington Post didn't bother to ask.
8. Since the Obama campaign turned off the easiest and most obvious way to stop campaign finance fraud, this blog and the National Journal proceeded to explore other ways in which the Obama campaign could prevent campaign finance fraud. We determined that the Obama camp could use IP addresses (unique identifiers for computers with geographic information) and BIN numbers (unique identifiers of credit cards with geographic information) to prevent fraudulent and foreign donations on the back-end. Unfortunately, all records indicate that the Obama campaign does NOT use these simple and cheap methods to prevent illegal donations.
9. With public pressure mounting on the Obama campaign to disclose his donor list (despite the apathy from the New York Times and Washington Post), Charlie Gibson of ABC News asks Obama why he won't disclose his donor list. Obama said it would be too difficult to process. RED FLAG! Isn't this the internet generation candidate? Shouldn't it be easy for computers to process these records?
10. It turns out that the answer is Yes!. The liberal online publication, Slate, proves how easy it is to process the donor list. The National Journal also proves how easy it is by talking to the bank that houses the Obama campaign records.
In summary, the Obama cam
Linky linky.
For those who don't feel like clicking: Obama is moderately statist, just left (liberal) of center. McCain is a pinch more statist than Obama and just right (conservative) of center. On an image ~9cm wide they are separated by no more than 1cm.
There is no information posted on how whoever created the image filled out the survey for placement on the chart, so I suppose it's possible that it's entirely fabricated. However, it was presumably done by a Libertarian (since they're the only ones who tend to use the Nolan chart in the first place) who has no vested interest in either candidate.
It provides a decent metric of just how mountainous the molehill separating the Democratic and Republican nominees is.
Your brain is not a computer.
Going back to the two poles, Marx and a Paul-style laissez-faire capitalist, Marx says capitalism is a social and political relationship while Paul looks at it as an economic system. In this case I think Marx (and Keynes, who leans towards this idea) is right - the capitalists are concerned with protecting their political power. Paul complaining that the capitalists are not for capitalism (with this bailout) is kind of silly. This *is* capitalism. Capitalism is not some theory on a drawing board, it is a social relation involving labor, capital, wages and profit.
So, your going to vote for another socialist - hoping he's less of one?!?! Republicans are big oil, pro corp, and now socialist and big government.
Except for socialism, that is EXACTLY what being republican means based on the last three republican administrations going back to 1980! Add to that pro-imperialism, pro-theocracy, anti-environmentalism, covert racism, and anti-intellectualism.
Do handouts remove poor people from poverty? Not really. Some investment that is!
Insert Twain's statement here about statistics and lies.
Okay, we'll take poor Joe out of his quotes. We still get 28,389 results. Still less than quoteless Wright or Ayers.
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
I heard people claiming the stock market decline of former weeks was based on the same conclusion – and with no more evidence than you offer.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
If there's really any "flaw" to the concept of having totally unregulated free markets, it's probably that it's a concept thought of by intelligent "long term" thinkers.
In theory, it's a very good, workable idea. But it counts on people doing what's *really* the "wisest choice" in given situations, vs. attempting to lay down enough rules to attempt to force individuals to make the wisest choices.
I consider myself libertarian, but far from "delusional" (contrary the remark made below). I simply realize that political change is rather like steering a huge ship. It takes considerable time and effort to reverse its course. Right now, I see it moving ahead, full-steam, with leaders pushing all of their variations of government expansion. If we really had a Libertarian president elected, by the time he or she put all those "radically different, small govt." ideas out there to be watered down or randomly rejected by Congress and the Senate, it *might* be JUST enough to alter the "ship"'s course. We wouldn't wind up with some kind of "utopian but unworkable" perfect-world Libertarian nation.
LOL funniest thing I have seen in a while, you get modded up and I get modded down. Doesn't bother me but I find it funny.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
If Obama wins: "Welcome to the Socialist states of America!" If McCain wins: "Welcome to the Fascist Empire of America!"
Bush through most of his term, disaster.
Clinton at the beginning of his term, disaster.
Carter, HUGE disaster.
In between we had periods of prosperity where there were checks and balances. Spare me the "we believe" rhetoric. The only difference is which pig is at the trough.
In my polling place, like all of the others, they divided us up into three lines by last name (A-G, H-P,Q-Z). That's all pretty standard. The problem was that the H-P line was taking 2 to 3 hours to move through and vote, while the other two were taking about half an hour.
So I've got two questions about that. First, given a database of registered voters, it should be trivial to run a query and get a way to distribute names into three even groups.
The second issue I have is this -- Last names are not distributed evenly across ethnic groups. A much higher percentage of people of Irish or Scottish descent will be in the H-P group (Think of all of the O'somethings and the McLastnames). So by messing with the distributions of the names, you could actually make it more likely for people of particular ethnic groups to walk off without voting.
I'm not saying that happened, and people of Irish and Scottish descent are not exactly an underprivileged minority. I guess what I'm really saying, is that an 'M' of Scottish descent, that sucked.
I'm voting for Obama because he's black.
Sure, but Clinton got it -- contractors save the government money, which is why many positions previously occupied either by active duty or GS were outsourced under his watch. Obama has promised to reverse that.
Hey, that's not quite fair. The Iran-Contra kiddies helped out!
I think a 30 day margin of error over that time period is pretty damn good considering they were doing their calculations with giant rocks...
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Nobody caught my jest. I said nobody can beat Bush at socialism. I guess G. W. still stands for George Washington, not George W. Bush. My Bad.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
Would you like the population numbers by racial breakdown or the welfare recipient numbers or what?
Let me know which statistics you would like and I'll dig them up for you.
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I think the government is getting dangerously big.
I want smaller government.
Therefore, I don't have a vote.
Vote Republican you say? LOL!
The Repub's oversaw the largest expansion in spending in history.
Vote third party you say? ROFL!
We have a two party duopoly headed for a one party monopoly.
What? Isn't there a Sarah Palin for President committee yet? No matter which way this election goes, you know that's coming. So I'll have to wait until the morrow... OK, fine.
READ the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the other amendments! http://lcweb2.loc.gov/const/const.html
I keep hearing about those do nothing freeloaders, but somehow, I've NEVER met one. Kinda like I keep hearing about space aliens zapping people with their mind rays, but I've never seen one.
I have met homeless people who do nothing, but they don't collect welfare checks either. My guess is that they need assistance (and based on the shuffling gait, they were once on way too much thorazine before the non-violent cases were kicked out of the mental hospital due to budget cuts).
but the real mistake wasn't george w's, it was george senior's. saddam hussein should have been taken out in 1991
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Bah! Socialism vs Fascism. And I voted for Fascism!
Hmmm... is there a voters remorse clause? I'm beginning to regret that....
Nah seriously. As caricatures of the candidates Obama is a Socialist, McCain is a Fascist.
The reality is of course not so extreme, but as a general rule I agree with more of McCain's positions than Obama's and the economic policies of both have a lot to do with that, as do their positions on the second amendment.
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
The socialized systems put price caps on drugs, so the drug companies charge Americans more to make up for it. If America had price caps too there would be no outlet for this violation of the laws of economics, and new drugs would become scarce.
So we already pay for socialized medicine in America, just not ours.
"First monday after the second wednesday?"
Jesus, and I thought the Catholic Church had a fucked up calendar...
Thats because William Ayers is a non-story (as it pertains to the election). Wheres the connection? Some guy who did something 30 years ago lives in your neighborhood and server on the same board as you?
The story should be WTF put Ayers the board? They should be the ones answering questions here.
I'm one of those small-gov't, pro-personal-liberties republicans and I can't describe to you how invisible I have felt the last decade. I hope after this election the GOP dissolves and reforms as two different parties to separate people like me from the "new" Republicans. Realistically, I don't give it a high probability of happening, but a guy can hope and change, can't he? Wait...that almost sounds like somebodies election theme...
For more insight into voting systems and game theory, read Gaming the Vote by William Poundstone.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Karma plus paying for your mortgage and gas too? WTF else do you want? :p
There is, however, basically only one class. It is very difficult to get out of the one basic class because taxes are so high. The motivation to excel in business is limited because, well, taxes minimize any benefit. The poor are elevated to this class, the ambivalent are content there, and the ambitious are frustrated but can't do much about it.
Quite stunning.
Curiously, as I voted this morning (Ohio, for the curious) I was given the option of a paper ballot or an electronic ballot. People were standing in line waiting for their turn at the Diebold machines while the paper ballot tables remained largely empty. I saw 3 people (including my wife and myself) opt for the paper ballot in my time there.
Personally, I chose the paper ballot because my tin-foil hat prevents me from trusting the Diebold machines but I assumed more would have opted for paper simply out of time constraints to get to work or whatever else they had planned for the day. Not so.
I don't have any grand conclusion or poignant observation other than people implicitly trust the electronic voting machines despite the nationally-publicized problems with them, they are unaware there have been major issues with them (Diebold in particular) or the shiny touchscreen is newer and cooler or perhaps perceived as easier to use. Maybe it's something I'm not thinking of.
So you are following Colin Powell's lead.
Are you afraid there is some kind of widespread tampering or falsification which will oddly give one side or the other an 80% victory?
We could allow in "international inspectors," but it wouldn't change much. Since balloting is a state-by-state procedure, as set out in the constitution, there will be variations in form all over the country. With the exception of very, very few precincts, you'll find practically zero irregularities, and none which materially affect all by the closest of elections. And in the closest of elections, one might argue that either side has a legitimate right to claim support from a near-majority.
The problem - or solution - you are craving is for citizens of the US to actually participate in the election process. You want people to (1) register (2) verify their registration and polling place is correct long before election day (3) educate themselves on the issues (4) have a reasonable grasp of international politics, economics, military, science and the other various relevant topics and (5) vote for the person who they believe will provide positive leadership on those issues in alignment with their beliefs. I think something like half the eligible citizens in the US vote at all, and I'd further suggest that of that half, at least 9 out of 10 would fail a test which asked them to identify 20 substantive details of the platform of their candidate.
Don't blame the system for a failure of the electorate. Humans, probably up to about the top 60 or 70th percentile, simply don't have the reasoning capacity to choose the "best" leadership.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
but not for the usual partisan reasons you think i would say so
george senior should have taken saddam hussein out of business in 1991. that was the real mistake. anything after that was secondary in nature to that initial failure to finish the job completely
you could say it was another demonstration of american spinelessness (in the eyes of al qaeda types, not in my eyes) that emboldened them to think something like 9/11 would make the usa back down. the first and biggest demonstration of american spinelessness (again, according to al qaeda types, not according to me) that emboldened american enemies in the middle east was under another republican administration too. this time, that republican mythic figure, reagan: leaving lebanon after the 1983 beirut barracks bombing
1983 beirut, more than anything else, taught al qaeda types (erroneously) that attacking americans would make them retreat. 9/11 is the fruit of reagan's and bush's decisions to back down in the face of hostilities in the middle east. lack of resolve in 1983 and 1991 taught al qaeda types that americans back down from confrontation
not that clinton helped, but clinton wasn't as thoroughly tested. the 1998 african embassy bombings were responded with a few missiles into empty encampments in the afghan desert and a deserted aspirin factory in sudan. the first world trade center bombing in 1993 was a dud. so clinton wasn't tested, so his failures, or not, in maintaining resolve aren't as manifest in emboldening al qaeda types
its funny then to see republicans constantly blathering about democratic lack of resolve, when the greatest failures of resolve in the eyes of our enemies in the middle east has been under republican administrations
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
A brief run-down (of US holidays)...
Black Friday: Friday after 4th Thursday in November
Christmas: 25 December
Columbus Day: 2nd Monday in October
Independence Day: 4 July
Labor Day: 1st Monday in September
Martin Luther King Jr Day: 3rd Monday in January
Memorial Day: Last Monday in May
New Years Day: 1 January
Presidents Day: 3rd Monday in February
Thanksgiving: 4th Thursday in November
Veterans Day: Nearest weekday to 11 November
April Fools Day: 1 April
Cinco de Mayo (not really USA, but meh): 5 May
DST begins: 2nd Sunday in March
DST ends: 1st Sunday in November
Election Day: Tuesday after 1st Monday in November
Fathers Day: 3rd Sunday in June
Flag Day: 14 June
Groundhog Day: 2 February
Halloween: 31 October
May Day: 1 May
Mothers Day: 2nd Sunday in May
Patriot Day: 11 September
St Patricks Day: 17 March
SuperBowl Sunday: 1st Sunday in February
Easter Sunday: Oh god. No.
Valentines Day: 14 February.
And yes, I have an Excel spreadsheet that calculates all of those for any given year. Except Easter.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
It's a prophecy, you insensitive clod! 30 days is unacceptable!
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Denmark does have a surplus on oil trade however, we drill less oil per citizen than the US does. If the American spend as little oil as Danes did, the US too would be an oil exporter.
I'm going to use my psychic power to predict winners and losers in the election today.
The first and most important big loser is going to be the American People. By once again having large media corporations dictate our choices, we are going to have another sold out corporate hooker in the white house. I'm guessing by the media hype that it will be Obama. Don't get me wrong, I'm as excited as the next guy that our new president will speak coherent English and sell flowery dreams to the public, but his nomination of Biden for VP proves unequivocally that Obama is a partisan hack working for Dow and Boeing, and not the American citizen.
Expect four more years of corporate welfare, immoral and illegal wars, torture, erosion of the constitution, limitation of personal freedoms, and economic failure based on the entrenched Reaganomics of the last 20 years. Expect further loss of freedom of speech, further loss of the right to bear arms, and an even more distant and remote chance for real American heroes like Ron Paul, Denis Kucinich, or Ralph Nader to be heard or influence democracy. The only democrat with a worse record for the American public would have been Nancy Pelosi. Obama not picking her for VP just proves that even the black guy doesn't think a woman will help his election chances.
Let me also predict a couple of winners in today's election:
Churches, corporations, the ignorant, pollution, and human misery are going to make big gains. EITHER candidate has vowed to continue the "War on Terror" indefinitely, with no time table for withdrawal in any of the countries we've invaded since the murder of JFK. EITHER candidate has not vowed to ratify the Kyoto accord, or restore the clean air and clean water acts. Either candidate has not mentioned breaking up the Starbucks, Exxon, McDonald's, Applebee's, Ford, Microsoft, AT&T, and Old Navy monopolies. American people will still be unable to compete fairly in a truly open market with Wal Mart. More and more Chipotles will be built while independent small business owners fold, foreclose, and evaporate. We still will not learn who killed JFK, the truth behind 9/11, or Project Silverbug.
The media will hype Obama's win as the change of the century, ushering in the power and wisdom of Democracy and freedom for a whole new generation. But the American people will continue to die without health care, continue to be overtaxed by corporations defrauding the public and enforcing extortion such as mandatory auto insurance, corrupt electronic voting machines, and a complete media blackout with regards to truth, justice, or logic and reason. Our species will continue to overpopulate and pollute and destroy entire ecosystems and cultures while more illegal aliens undercut American citizens for the last few jobs that haven't been outsourced. More and more cameras will be put up on street corners, heralding the true death of civil liberty, and ensuring there is no chance for the American populace to rise up and restore the constitution through physical force. Our troops will continue to be abused for monetary gain, and our schools will continue to decline by enforcing misinformation, lies, and ignorance through religion and slavery.
I'm going to go vote. Then I'm going to come home and watch corporate TV show me how their selection of "realistic" candidates is an inevitable juggernaut that no decent American heroes ever have a chance to compete with. I'm going to watch a sold out hooker that reminds me of Bill Clinton (though he's black) come to power and ensure further globalization, further human misery, and further environmental catastrophe and corporate monopolization. FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Denmark has an average suicide rate, on line with that of the US. Alcoholism is low on average, but has a world record among teens (mainly because we find it natural that teens drinks the same amount of alcohol as adults). The tax rate is the world highest though, but then so are the incomes.
An ironic ending for a guy who was a VICTIM of this very kind of dirty politics in 2000.
Sometimes people learn the wrong lesson. For example, peoples response to abuse has a tendency to be "I'm bad" instead of "My abuser is bad". In turn, they often seek out relationships where they take the role of either the abuser or the abused.
You could make too much of the comparison, but my only real point here is that I think McCain learned the wrong lesson from the 2000 election. I think certain people managed to convince him that he lost because dirty politics are the only way to win, and so when it was his time to run again, he turned to dirty politics. He ditched his old advisors and instead sought out the same sort of people who were able to beat him last time.
Often enough, when you lose, it's good to analyze your opponent's performance and try to learn to take on your opponent's strengths. Unfortunately, you have to be careful when you do this to make sure that you're emulating your opponent's strengths and not his weaknesses.
Also which gui should the voting machines run Gnome or KDE?
Lets see if we can get 2000 comments going
http://saveie6.com/
I voted Obama a couple weeks ago by mail-in absentee ballot. Give me free karma!
Don't worry, you will be getting that in the form of raised taxes and a weaker economy. Enjoy!
--
My parents went to Slashdot and all I got was this lousy sig.
If Stevens is re-elected and resigns, there will be a special election. She'll be in that right like stink on shit, you betcha.
If Stevens loses, she'll have to keep herself in the public eye for the next four years, and governor of Alaska just ain't gonna cut it. I wouldn't put it past her to resign and take up a TV talk show. Can't be radio, she'll want to take advantage of her hotness among those puritanical righteous righties. The most interesting thing will be Rush's reaction at being upstaged by the latest fad -- he won't dare make too many overt comments until she undercuts herself enough first, but you can also bet there will be no love lost between the two.
Infuriate left and right
If telling people what they can and cant say on the internet is not an example of a nanny I dont know what is..
agreed.
Perhaps we are both nanny states, but in different areas.
We do millions of financial transactions per day with all the things you mentioned and it works pretty well. Diebold even makes ATM machines for crying out loud. The only reason voting doesn't work flawlessly is because someone doesn't want it to, and the people don't care.
America is 2 continents
oddly enough I'm half serious. I think having a 'leader' of 'color' will help to improve foreign relations.
Indeed. The market fundamentalist neocon experiment has ended. It has crashed and burned. It has outlived any usefulness it had. It has gone the way of feudalism, communism, and all the other 'isms' that are now studied in history books.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Your assumption that welfare recipient equates to career welfare recipient is unsound. I know you can dig up statistics, but will the represent what you want them to?
Reverse in the areas it has gone too far, where it is costing the government more money, because the tried and true "privatization saves money" turns out when tried everywhere to not be true everywhere.
This is what pisses me off the most about american politics. Where is the outrage over military spending? Why can't we cut investment in warfare to save taxes? How is it that the hawks are allowed to say, "We have the best military in the world!" and clap each other on the backs, and then in the next moment say, "But government schools are broken!"
All you have to do is look at the numbers, which make it obvious. If we spend ten times more on the military than on education, what else do we expect besides a paranoid (and frankly dumb) society that's always looking for some country to blow up?
I responded to you specifically because you are a Christian, or at least you felt the need to defend an imaginary difference between a democracy voting for what they want and a community participating in the way they see fit. (I do not support a powerful centralized federal government, but I don't believe that there is functional difference between a participatory county government and a commune - they both require compromise). So let me ask you directly, why don't the same people who spend millions trying to defeat gay marriage spend the same amount on stopping people from eating shellfish, since both are abominations? And how can you possibly justify spending more money on war than on education, welfare, and social services combined?
I'm seriously asking your opinion. I can't seem to get my head around it, except for this scripture: "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
I won't discuss for whom I voted as that's my personal decision. However, I did fulfill my civic responsibility, duty and right by voting. By doing this I now have the right to complain all I want for the next four years because I participated in the process. No vote = shut your trap about the state of the nation since you couldn't be bothered to be involved when it mattered. At least, that's my opinion.
We voted before lunchtime. We live in a reasonably small district so we never have had much of a wait. Three volunteers helping us go to the right line (two wards vote in our location), one person in front of us in line, the same elderly ladies checking us off the list as having voted, fill in the circle paper ballots. The reader didn't spit them back out so we know that they were accepted. Overall it took less than ten minutes and that's including parking.
Political campaigns by their nature are not 'clean' and never have been. They can't be clean when the intent is to say "Vote for me and not those other guys". That sets it up to compare themselves to the other guys. So they need to make the other guys look bad, or at least worse than they do. It's a downward spiral.
Why did I vote the way I did? I looked at the candidates' qualifications, experience, stances, past votes, and all the other things that make up their consistent actions. What they say doesn't matter all that much since no candidate has every been held accountable in any real way for their campaign promises. So you could say I used their own public record to decide if they would be the candidate for whom I cast my vote.
Anyone who votes for a candidate solely on campaign promises gets what they deserve.
This is only my second time voting, I'm 22.
Last election, my precinct used butterfly ballots and paper punch cards. Maybe someone might find those more difficult, but I could pull out the card and verify my vote before I dropped it in the box.
My new precinct uses Hart electronic voting machines. I haven't heard much about them security wise, but at the end, it just says "Thank you. Your vote has been recorded"
Uh, you sure? I got a receipt... before I actually went to the both, with my printed access code.
One thing you're missing is that the news media is largely event-driven. "Joe the Plumber" (and yes, the media "investigation" was idiotic) has been doing things - appearing at rallies, chasing the media, negotiating a recording contract, etc. Ayers are Wright aren't doing anything - Ayers is continuing at his job, and Wright hasn't talked to the press since I think late April. In that sort of situation, of course Wurzelbacher will get more coverage.
What, exactly, is new to say about Ayers and Wright? News media can report "Joe the Plumber attends campaign rally for McCain". They can't report "William Ayers goes to work again today" or "Jeremiah Wright walked around his house".
(And wasn't it ABC - that evil "mainstream media" - that turned up the "God Damn America" tape?)
As for the news media in general - Obama got a higher percentage of negative coverage than McCain over the summer IIRC, although he did get more coverage. McCain's certainly got more negatives recently, although given that his campaign is leaking like a sieve, he went 100% negative (at least for a while), and his running mate managed to beat Joe Biden in the say-something-dumb contest, completely even coverage was never going to happen.
you need to find george senior responsible, but also colin powell. he was most influential about saying "stop" outside the gates of baghdad after rolling largely unmolested throught the desert
i think colin powell did that because of his experience in vietnam
and i think political operatives under george senior backed colin powell, by imagining that the american people would not take kindly in the polls to hundreds of american body bags flying home
but bush senior lost the election anyway, and he seemed to try to save face with that ill-thought out action in somalia late in his administration (of "black hawk down" fame)... which he also absurdly aborted at the slightest sign of casualties
well, what george senior, colin powell, and the american people have learned after 9/11 is that there is no such thing as backing down when fighting the kind of avarice we face in the middle east. that there will be body bags involved, no matter what we choose to do, so we might as well choose to do the most fruitful thing, roll up our sleeves, and get into the fight
you could say leaving iraq in 1991 was a demonstration of american spinelessness (in the eyes of al qaeda types, not in my eyes) that emboldened them to think something like 9/11 would make the usa back down. but the first and biggest demonstration of american spinelessness (again, according to al qaeda types, not according to me) that emboldened american enemies in the middle east was under another republican administration too. this time, that republican mythic figure, reagan: leaving lebanon after the 1983 beirut barracks bombing
1983 beirut, more than anything else, taught al qaeda types (erroneously) that attacking americans would make them retreat. 9/11 is the fruit of reagan's and bush's decisions to back down in the face of hostilities in the middle east. lack of resolve in 1983 and 1991 taught al qaeda types that americans back down from confrontation
its funny then to see republicans constantly blathering about democratic lack of resolve, when the greatest failures of resolve in the eyes of our enemies in the middle east has been under republican administrations
clinton gets a sort of free pass on the question. the (relatively speaking, to the question of middle east resolve) tangential and inconsequential 1998 african embassy bombings were responded with a few missiles into empty encampments in the afghan desert and a deserted aspirin factory in sudan. the first world trade center bombing in 1993 was a dud. so clinton wasn't tested, so his failures, or not, in maintaining resolve aren't as manifest in emboldening al qaeda types
although one could say the greatest failure, in policy, not of weak resolve, was under carter, when we let the iranian revoution birth a hostile theocracy, which funded hezbollah and so much other evils in the middle east. a theocracy that is about to get nukes
and if the idea of a theocracy, any theocracy, pro- or anti-american, with nuclear weapons doesn't scare the bejesus out of you, i don't know what is wrong with you
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I would argue that in the case of anencephaly we're not talking about a human life at all. It's not a diminished capacity or a handicapped existance, there is literally no brain there to be human with. Sadly, the baby is organized human tissue that has no hope of ever being human. There is also no hope of living beyond 24 hours (typically less) after birth.
There are homeless people wandering the desert?
Yeah... they both just want your money. One just costs more.
-Unresolved symbol? Byte me!
According to some Christian interpretations, The Anti-Christ will rule in peace for 3.5 yrs, and then the Great Tribulation will go on for 3.5 yrs. Then there will be the Battle of Armegeddon.
Oooh! I can be a conspiracist, too.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
In Ga. I vote on Diebold with no paper trail so I reasonably sure that my vote is meaningless.
I went through the motions (last week actually) before it occurred to me that I should always do absentee ballots (which are on paper.)
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
In 2000 the DJIA was at 11,000. So, you picked good stocks (good for you,) but the average investor lost wealth since 2000.
Obama's not a socialist at all. Check out http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/11/campaign-2008-h.html
As a libertarian socialist (as opposed to an authoritarian socialist), I would be happy if Obama was a socialist. He's not. He's slightly right of center and slightly more authoritarian than libertarian.
While I don't expect any politician of either party to be anything but a politician -- meaning someone who has to compromise their promises and principles in order to do their job -- I do think that the hallmark of the Republican party is their willingness to sell their souls just to get elected. Look at the way the same party that brought Lincoln to the white house now runs racist campaigns like Nixon's and Reagan's, to say nothing of Strom Thurmond and his pals.
A cat is no trade for integrity!
That's not socialist at all, in socialism we get to share the profits too.
Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
McCain turned me off most every time he would say- (rough quote)
"I am for wind power, solar power, clean coal, alternative energy, and offshore drilling, unlike my opponent."
I don't appreciate being lied to. He used this line during each debate- so obviously it was a flagrant attempt to mislead the public. I can hear his defense, now- "but he DOESN'T support offshore drilling..."
Its pretty scary to think that these two candidates are the best we can do.
Obama should be able to finally ravage what little bit of the Constitution that previous Administrations haven't been able to get at.
We will finally be able to finish the transformation from "A government of enumerated powers" to "Citizens with enumerated rights".
Don't worry. There won't be many rights, so it shouldn't be too confusing.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
I keep hearing about those do nothing freeloaders, but somehow, I've NEVER met one. Kinda like I keep hearing about space aliens zapping people with their mind rays, but I've never seen one.
I have met homeless people who do nothing, but they don't collect welfare checks either. My guess is that they need assistance (and based on the shuffling gait, they were once on way too much thorazine before the non-violent cases were kicked out of the mental hospital due to budget cuts).
There are people in the UK that claim benefits, but could work if they chose to. They might not want to work as a construction labourer or a street-sweeper though, so EU migrants end up doing those jobs. I don't know how many there are.
There are many single mothers who live on welfare payments. I don't mind this much -- caring for a child is a full-time job until the child starts school. But once the child is at school the mother should be able to find some work. The problem is, they might (reasonably) only have time for 5 hours work a day, but if they get a job they lose the welfare payments, so they'd be worse off. It's not perfect, hopefully it'll continue to be improved.
CTHULHU & PALIN 2012!!!
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No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
And just like capitalism is great, in theory. In practice you get cutthroat business practices, only looking out for short term self interest, competition crushing monopolies were owning everything isn't enough, consolidation of power into the hands of a very tiny minority, and an almost complete disregard for the general public.
The USA was founded in large part to control corporate interests, and to go against companies like the monopolistic East India Company. In the early days of the US, they strictly controlled or ended any corporation that didn't act in the interest of the general public.
Now we buy the falsehood that what's good for a corporation is good for the US. Even if it includes firing US workers, doing away with pensions, leaving people uninsured or underinsured, manipulating markets so that it takes more and more money to get buy, while the people at top make more and more profit.
People are greedy and inherently flawed, yes. Capitalism is like releasing a bunch of hungry tigers into a room together and telling them to play nice. Unless you keep all the tigers on a very short leash, you end up with a mess.
That's what they will all say isn't it?
Fifty percent of the nation will think they have free shit coming their way because they voted for The One.
Entil'zha veni!
If you didnt vote for Cthulhu today as a write-in im very worried about your sanity being had for breakfast. Hes here!! Look busy!!
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No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
Central Indiana, Northwest corner of Indianapolis suburbs in Boone County Indiana.
My wife voted was at the polls at 0600 when they opened and waited approximately 50 minutes.
My work hours are more flexible, so I elected to wait until 1030 hours local, expecting this to be a light time. Arrived to find a 45 minute wait. While I was waiting the line grew to over an hour easily.
voted on a MicroVote Infinity machine.(http://www.votersunite.org/info/MicroVoteinthenews.pdf ) I hope my County has a better experience this year than they did in 2003.
No way to know if my vote will be counted, as in so far as I am aware the MicroVote Infinity is a DRE with no backup paper record. :-(
Never ascribe to malice or conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
I suspect that Obama is shooting (haha) for laws that are somewhat akin to a motto that I came up with:
"Private weapons should be legal but regulated to a degree proportional to their utility and destructiveness."
That adopts a libertarian stand of anything should be legal provided that it does not harm other's rights, and yet recognises that there is an inherent risk regardless of noble intent.
This is an easy test: What is the risk to the population as a whole if it is intentionally or accidentally misused? A baseball bat is much less likely to kill or injure than say a hand grenade if misused. A baseball bat can be used for constructive purposes, while a hand grenade is pretty much only useful if you want to hurl small pieces of metal in random directions at high velocity. Ergo, a grenade should have a much higher level of regulation than a baseball bat.
I think its a fair request to have more dangerous weapons regulated. The bill of rights wasn't written to permit you to needlessly endanger your fellow citicens while excercising your own rights. Obama's stand seems to reflect this idea.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Mod up +1 Funny, it's a Colbert-esque joke.
Or is this whole election thingy is a giant subsidy to corn farmers and bailout for Orville Redenbacher...?
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
You're right. Just look at the power industry. Every state that's "deregulated" has seen astronomical jumps in their monthly bills.
I *REALLY* wish the government would just deregulate everything!
My town, in its infinite wisdom, had a road crew tearing up a lane of traffic directly in front of my polling place (only a 2-lane road with a center turn lane). People could still get in & out obviously but it made things more difficult for sure. I'd love to know who's brilliant scheduling idea that was...
I keep hearing about those do nothing freeloaders, but somehow, I've NEVER met one.
That's why it's a strawman.
My state just switched to optical scan, at 1:30 there was no line to check in, plenty of privacy booths available, and no wait for the scanner.
However I chose the booth closest to the scanner and one woman's ballot was rejected, whereupon the volunteer worker promptly announced there was something wrong, "let's take a look" and flipped it over, exposing it to me as well as others behind her.
She had filled in all the bubbles for one of the offices, instead of just selecting one candidate, and went off to get a replacement ballot.
I failed to observe what they did with her invalid ballot, but she had voted for the same Presidential candidate I had.
I then went to deposit a check, which took longer than voting did, parking, filling out the deposit envelope and waiting for the printer was about the same, but 14 button pushes on the atm and waiting for it to respond was extra...
The problems with earlier 3D projection systems have mainly been solved by the system now used in movie theaters. This uses circular polarization to separate the left and right images, so that the polarized glasses worn by the audience still work if they tilt their head.
Pretty soon, all animated and action movies will be in 3D. Already, next year, Disney has announced that it will release all its animated films in 3D. This also means that theaters will have to get digital projection in order to show 3D movies. So no more scratches or bright blips in film, and a noise-free soundtrack, will be coming to more and more movie theaters. I can't wait.
Wouldn't you rather not see a movie at all, if you can't see it in digital projection? It is time to boycott analog theaters. Make your choice - choose digital. That is my endorsement on election day 2008. You can vote for president too, if you are a U.S. citizen and not a convicted felon. Those people who still watch analog movies are ruining our country - don't let them. Vote them out of the movie theaters, and return them to their couches in front of the TV. They are probably Sony users too. The Dutch are behind this attempt to make our movie-viewing experience fall behind that of the Asian tigers like Singapore and Hong Kong. Check out the true facts of this on Wikipedia - search for "Hidden pumpkin"!
Share. Until it becomes uncomfortable. Or at least a little.
I voted, but as in the last few it wasn't for my candidate of choice, it was against the candidate I couldn't abide by winning.
My candidate would not become a whore to Corporations, would effectively ban lobbying by groups (of ANY kind).
Would respect the Constitution, even the parts they didn't like.
Would only sign single issue Bills.
Would endeavor to clean the garbage and deadwood out of the US Code of Federal Regulations and our nations Laws.
Would abandon our current taxation system and go to an end user consumption tax for ALL revenue other than import duties.
Would respect my privacy and not spy on me or my countrymen.
Would balance our budget and generate enough surplus to begin paying down our debt. (see above)
Would work with Congress to issue appropriate letters of Marque and Reprisal to eliminate those who threaten us, and bring our troops home as quickly as prudent.
Would begin an immediate effort to eliminate all Federally funded Energy programs which have not produced based upon their historical record, and transfer that funding to new programs with promise to reduce or end our energy dependence.
Unfortunately, my candidate does not exist
Never ascribe to malice or conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
So, you think success and insight are determined by GPA? Seriously?
Maybe McCain didn't do well in the Academy, because he wasn't focussed on doing well in the Academy. Meanwhile, we have a candidate that left two years out of his autobiography, and the media mysteriously lets him slide on that. Could it be because he was dealing drugs?
That oh-so-bright candidate you worship doesn't have the vision to know when to shut the hell up. Lipstick on a pig? Whether he was talking about Palin or not, he knew the context he was saying it in. If he didn't recognize the context for what it was, he is a fool. If he did recognize it for what it was, and then claimed that he didn't mean it that way, he is a liar. You choose.
That oh-so-bright candidate has spent a lifetime under the teachings of a radical racist, and referred to the man as a mentor. When called to the rug, The Messiah says he never heard such talk. No choice here. That was just flat out lying. If it isn't, you'd have to believe he didn't know about Ayers past or the history of the PLO spokesman he liked to hang with.
No all intelligence is wrapped up in a GPA. In fact, very few leadership qualities or character judgment qualities are quantifiable by a GPA. Obama fails on both counts.
Seems clear to me.
The only sane choice the round was Bob Barr.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Doesn't the madam the same as a mac?
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
We live for the One, we die for the One.
Sorry, just wishing we had one of those three as a choice instead.
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
It would be great if the US could cut down on oil consumption, particularly for the environment, but again, we are discussing completely different economies. Being a net exporter would not have the same effect. I think it is unreasonable to compare $300 billion GDP countries with a $13000 billion GDP country.
I just refuse to vote for someone who ran a filthy campaign whose only issue was "the other guy sucks." That's my favorite logical fallacy, the "argument from ignorance": the other guy is bad, so we must be better.
Yeah, I am so glad Obama never did that choosing to run off of his long record of accomplishments instead*. The worst part of Obama's campaign was his voting record which, by the way, is the exact opposite of what he campaigned on. If I had a dime for every time I heard Obama say "Eight years of failed policies" or talk about George Bush, I would be in the rich tax bracket. At least McCain was putting down the person he was running against.
*I guess some day we might find out what those are.
--
My parents went to Slashdot and all I got was this lousy sig.
McCain hasn't changed at all. I think knowing him, Palin was the perfect pick. The issue was that McCain was the perfect pick to put up against Hillary. The PROBLEM is that McCain didn't change his strategy. An over simplification of the issue was that Hillary would have come off as an unrealistic leftist, while McCain made off as the conservative / left moderate. The problem (for him) is honestly Obama's change thing. He wants to revolutionize socialism (what some have called democratic socialism). McCain's plan of attack didn't anticipate this at all, and not knowing how to deal with it, he has defaulted to sticking with a failed game plan OR he is being consistent. Either way, we are now forced to decided between a democrat, and a socialist.
And only one is seen as a traitor to their party.
Republicans have not stood on a conservative platform in over 20 years, and conservatives that loved their party are jumping ship. Republicans on their conservative platform saw the advantage of pandering to the religious right. The problem is that they ended up selling out and letting their constituents take over so far as to sell out on their conservative beliefs.
I consider myself a conservative, and do republicans, but my democrat friends say I am an extreme libertarian. I had hope and belief that Republicans had conservatism as the fore front of their policy, but the constant compromising and this neo-conservative nightmare has become "do whatever sounds nice for the people that support us".
Some people like this. Obviously, otherwise why would the Republicans have adopted it? They just under estimated the number of people that are conservative because it is the best thing for the country, not their self serving interests. There are people that love Palin, and there are Republicans that see McCain's move to the left as a positive, encouraging bipartisanship.
And I think it would have been enough for a win against Hillary. It was just the wrong strategy against Obama when it comes to getting the majority of electorates. I do not fault McCain for sticking to what he believes in, if you can at least believe for a moment that he did that. I think the fault lies more with the GOP. I know many people would say this is crazy, but I think the reason Ron Paul was not supported by the GOP is because he is hated by the media / entertainment industry. The GOP be that it couldn't beat the media at that game. Ron Paul ran on a platform of change. dramatic change back to logic and traditional conservatism that believes in a rational science of politics. I think with the back of the GOP, and unfortunately the religious right that would never have voted for Obama, HIS conservative platform of change, getting the Republican party to what it stood for, and had MAJOR victories throughout the 60's, 70's, and 80's would have brought hope to people that we can get back to what worked, within an enlightened vision, versus this radically untested democratic socialist platform of Obama's. The media would have been forced to back off and cover the election in the way it could to get ratings. McCain's coverage is proof that the media doesn't go light on any candidate it doesn't support, and McCain got hit harder than has been seen in a long time. McCain's actual weaknesses didn't help either.
I really think Paul could have stood up to the heat, and I really wish there could have been a real debate between Obama and Paul rather than that monkey dance we were made to endure. IMHO, the reason McCain could not hit any of Obama's weaknesses was because on his important faults, McCain is virtually the same person. I seriously wish some of those weaknesses could have been addressed by a real, experienced, and lovable conservative.
To anyone that follows business stuff, the GOP was to the entertainment industry what Rubbermaid was to Walmart; a disposable asset that could be manipulated in their favor. And to (certain) music lovers, the only chance they had was what happened between ICP and Disney. ICP may not have done as well, as they could have.. but they are doing a whole lot better than Rubbermaid.
The GOP didn't know when to quit, so their voters did instead.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
"Would you like the population numbers by racial breakdown or the welfare recipient numbers or what?"
Yes, that would be great.
"Let me know which statistics you would like and I'll dig them up for you."
Whatever ones you think support your bullshit. Maybe you could start with the percent of the population deriving the majority of their income from government support in the US vs the Nordic countries? Hint: If you're not going to change your mind in the face of evidence, don't bother looking that one up.
That's an outside group running that ad. Notice no "I approved this message" at the end.
All campaigns draw their share of asshats, who are sometimes organized asshats. Obama is a polarizing figure - either you love him or you don't for the most part, whereas McCain is more or less a "meh" figure. Palin, however, is polarizing.
The root of what the GP is saying is that 'true' communism is a utopia that is essentially impossible to achieve...and consequently you get repressive totalitarian dictators coming out of them.
For a prediction that was made several thousand years ago I would be willing to give them a margin of error of at least a month.
Of course, pretty much all Americans support and enjoy socialized education. It's only health care where we think everyone should ahave it but inexplicable refuse to pay for it efficiently.
"I just don't think it's as easy in less homogeneous countries"
Why?
You just don't get it. Prophecies that are nearly right are no good at all.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Fallacies have nothing to do with "truth".
Fallacies are logical situations where you can put truth in one side and get false out the other. In a valid deductive argument this is impossible.
What you're talking about isn't even logic. It's not even inductive logic. It's statistics and probability.
The argument from ignorance is very simple:
A v B
~A
Therefore B
A and B have independent truth values, so the attempt to promote the truth of B by proving A to be false is invalid.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
"The 20+ years of neoconservative leadership has bankrupted the Republican party of its core conservative platform, and the pandering to the religious fundamentalists has turned off the moderates of the party."
I'm so tired of hearing this libertarian crap. Look, if you don't like the social conservatives, then go join Bob Barr. Because the so-called "neo-cons" and religious conservatives are not going away. They still make up a huge chunk of the population. And stop it with the "core conservative platform", because it's pretty obvious that you have no idea what that is. Look at the word Conservative. The core word is "conserve". It's always included both political and social values worth conserving.
The party of Rockefeller has been dead for 40 years, and when it was alive, it was getting its ass kicked. I'll never understand people that claim to be Republican complaining about "those church freaks", when social conservatives have been the engine of GOP success. Barry Goldwater didn't go fully Libertarian until old age. When he was running for office, he ran on just as many social issues as the modern GOP does. Since the 60's, social issues have always been a core component of GOP politics. One of the things that's helped the Democrats tremendously is that they've stopped pushing away religious voters, openly embracing them. Barack Obama came out against gay marriage and preached about the need for personal responsibility. You never would have heard Walter Mondale or Michael Dukakis go anywhere near those positions. So quit pretending that social issues don't matter in elections. What you're talking about is expelling the base of the party, it's largest and most dedicated core. That is, to put it mildly, stupid. It sounds to me like you'd be happier in the Libertarian Party or Democratic Party anyway.
So cease with the "we need to be more moderate" stuff. This same lie gets trotted out every four years; the key to greater Republican success is to act more like Democrats. John McCain has reached across the aisle and partnered with Democrats on so many things, he was actually hated by his own base at one time. How much did that help him today? By your reasoning, Barack Obama should be losing in a landslide, and every Democrat would be packing their bags today. Barney Frank and John Kerry certainly aren't preaching moderation. They're talking about massive military cuts and a second New Deal. Doesn't seem to be hurting the Democrats any, does it?
The fact is that the GOP could have raised George Washington from the grave and ran him today, and still he would probably lose. There's a perfect storm working against the GOP this election, 90% from economics. People aren't even paying attention to details... they rarely do in big elections... all they know is that they see things are bad, and the guy in the White House is a Republican, so that means it's time for a Democrat. I have no doubt that if Democratic policies start hurting them, voters will start the pendulum swinging in the other direction. But even with that factor, you still need a large, dedicated base to win elections.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
If you believe that those three weren't actually investigated, you match the description of a conspiracy nut. Regarding Ayers/Rezco, there are plenty of people who are interested in those stories and plenty of people who go around claiming they have those stories. The problem is that their sources of information are pretty shaky, and much of what they "uncover" is totally contrived and usually irrelevant.
As for Wright, I think a fair comparison would be Palin's church, and I generally hear much less about that one than I do Wright.
They were investigated, sure enough. And when confronted with the question of why did he sit for such nonsense, Obama said he never heard such talk.
AND THE PRESS ACCEPTED THAT!!!
20yrs. In his autobiography, claimed the racist was a mentor that he worked closely with. The radical sermons were distributed on a "best-of" DVD that the church sold. The racist gets a chance to be in the public light, and he goes on-and-on with his bile, even though he has to know that it will harm Obama.
And Obama never heard him say such things? It can just be dismissed with, "I never heard that"? And that is investigation?
Ok. Whatever.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
"Does anyone else miss small-gov't, pro-personal-liberties republicans?"
Miss them? How could I miss them? I've never seen one on the ballot in my lifetime. And I'm old.
I find it telling that statisticians have long noted the correlation between education levels and political leaning. It is fact: smarter, better educated, and better informed people tend to vote Democrat. Find a Republican in the AAAS or NAS. Why do you suppose that is? The better educated stand more to lose, since they tend to be wealthier. (I have a feeling that there's a golden amount of wealth that allows us the luxury of investing in the future, without the pathology of being obsessed with accumulating money.)
I also find it telling that most everyone saying anything negative about Obama has referred to him using his middle name. This echoes the standard content of the message: "He does not look like us, therefore he must be evil." They don't tend to address actual policy issues, but simply try to instill fear/hatred/uncertainty/doubt based on rumours.
Could we, as a society, maybe move beyond that?
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
I don't care who wins, per se - but what has driven me nuts is the Bush Bashing. I know that he didn't lie, the very claim that he did is itself a lie. Yet it is repeated so often it is actually believed.
So: what history is being rewritten? Just look at this article from The New York Times, as reported from the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122575933265095405.html
I dare say that the big loser of the past 8 years has been the American people and how we've let ourselves be brainwashed by the agenda driven Media.
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
Of course you CAN, but that doesn't mean that I want a president who a) doesn't read Marx and b) can't pick and choose elements from Marxist political theory as valid. just like, before someone writes a new programming language, I want them to understand existing languages.
Would it be so bad if the government were able to do nothing?
No, it would be totally awesome if the government wasn't able to do anything. I mean, look at Hurricane Katrina. That was so awesome when the government failed to prevent/prepare for/respond to that disaster. I just get warm fuzzies inside every time I think about it.
So the government can prevent hurricanes? People choose to live in a sinking bowl of mud with no bedrock and water on three sides of the city, and it's the governments fault? It's the governments fault when those people didn't leave when they were warned that, hey, there's a fscking hurricane coming, get out of Dodge. That's the government's fault?
I know what you mean. I get those same warm fuzzies when I realize people like you vote.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
1) She was/is the highest rated governor in the Country.
2) Alaska joined the Union for its oil reserves, and Palin strongly believes that this country needs energy independence (despite any reasons / understanding or how closely she may have had business with oil companies).
3) She is not a Washington insider / new face
4) She is a role model for women that take the same position as her on women's issues, not to mention she is a very positive example of a person that takes that kind of position
And as I mentioned earlier, all together, I think the pair / plan would have beat Hillary. It is just senseless against Obama. The GOP picked the perfect weapon, for the wrong type of target.
McCain sold the "I am not Bush" plan. Palin is the "I am not Hillary" plan. In addition to being the complete opposite of Hillary with respect to the issues mentioned above, Palin is a more likable person (remember polls saying in 2000 that Bush was the candidate voters would most like to sit with and have a beer? I meant something), and 5) she is really hot.
Hillary never would have had a chance.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
As a Nader supporter, I hope Palin gives her concession speech wearing a black leather studded dog collar...
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
I think you missed my point. I agree that fallacies are just that.
But when people employ a fallacious argument, it's often the case that they're in the neighborhood of a valid argument, but goofed up their argument. I think their intuitions often draw their attention to an issue which can be useful to bring up, but they accidentally (or perhaps intentionally) concoct an invalid argument instead of the valid one which was actually available to them.
Like with my example about grade distributions. McCain could have reasonably stated something like this: "Even if you're unsure about my policies, you know for sure you hate Obama's policies. So do you really think it's likely that you'll regret my Presidency as much as you would Obama's?"
Unfortunately reasoning about the real world is messy, because you often have to deal with unknowns. Life would be simpler if it was clear how to model everything with first-order predicate logic, but it's not.
Eh, I would prefer that filibustering be disallowed, no matter who is in charge.
"Little is much when little you need."
http://twittervotereport.com/ http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Portal:Election_Protection_Wiki http://tinyurl.com/699ehc http://tinyurl.com/55rorb
Raised taxes and a weaker economy?
Well, the tax thing doesn't bother me - as much as I'd've like to, I've never quite got up to $250,000 per year as income.
Weaker economy, though, that scares me. Obama's going to harm this wonderful economy we've got going right now? Oh, no! I wish someone could have told me that before I voted for him!
I also wish someone had mentioned that he has terrorists friends, and that he's secretly a Muslim, and that he committed widespread vote caging, and that he was actually friendly with Hillary Clinton, and that he hates white people, wants to outlaw Christianity, and that his middle name is Hussein. I did hear something about him claiming to have invented the Internet, though, I think...
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
It's not exactly racist, it's more classist.
Have you ever been really truly poor? I mean so poor that you are wondering how you are going to eat and keep a roof over your head? So poor a meal at a fast-food restaurant is a big splurge?
Being on welfare isn't pleasant. Ignoring the social consequences, what you are getting while on public assistance is somewhere around the bare minimum needed to survive: the cheapest apartment available (typically 1 bedroom per 2 people), and some combination of WIC and food stamps. That's it: enough to eke out a meager existence. Any idea that you can get wealthy on public assistance is simply ludicrous.
I am officially gone from
Bill Clinton had a plan to hand out $1000 tax credits to 95% of the working population? How the hell do I retro-actively get mine!?
McCain claims that Obama plans to handout money, because Obama claims that he is going to give a $1000 tax credit to 95% of working Americans. Well, less than 50% of working Amercians actually pay federal incomes taxes. How is it an extreme stretch of logic to say, "If you get $1000 back, but you haven't paid anything in, you're getting a handout?"
I wouldn't expect an answer, since the question isn't listed on the Democratic talking points.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
The root of what the GP is saying is that 'true' communism is a utopia that is essentially impossible to achieve...and consequently you get repressive totalitarian dictators coming out of them.
Well, of course. All pure ideologies are impossible to achieve in this imperfect world. "True capitalism" would degenerate into something at least as bad if it were ever attempted. That's why what we have to do is start with what we have, and cherry-pick the best (and most adaptable) features from other ideologies to form an effective, efficient practical government/economy/culture.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
Wiki
I've met them! I used to own a rental property. The welfare department forced me to accept a welfare family ... once. These people had 4 kids. Neither parent worked. They stayed home and watched tv all day long. The kids got free breakfast and lunch at school. Heat was included in my rental. They left the windows open and wore shorts all winter! They trashed my house and moved out without the contractually agreed notice ... guess who paid the tab ... welfare. Or should I say the taxpayers.
These people were 'lifers' as the welfare worker referred to them. And they were raising future lifers.
Well, there's no question that it is a free speech issue. The question is only whether the benefits are worth the restriction on free speech. I suspect that you'd get all kinds of opinions on the matter. Personally, I'd want to see some evidence that it really makes a difference before I gave up any rights. I also think that it should be done as an amendment and not through normal laws.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I try not to do me too posts, but you're basically spot on.
The Republican party has overseen one of the largest expansions in income redistribution in American history and somehow taking a very small portion of future redistributions and leaving it with the poor and middle class workers is somehow immoral.
It's amazing how people complain about workers in America being lazy when we're the most productive in the world and the gains in productivity end up being redistributed to those that don't really need any more money.
And for the record, David Duke was a former grandmaster for the KKK, he wasn't just a member. I don't know how their power structure works and the title might not be right, but he was a leader of the movement and fairly high up.
I have a mustache, you insensitive clod! (Now off with his head!)
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
That being said, I have been heavily involved in the academic institution for a while at the College level. I wouldn't say the correlation between Higher education and democrat has much to do with the democrat platform being any more sound than the republican one. Rather the democratic platform favor's schools FAR more. You are also mocked in your career if you are a PHD and a republican unless you are a poly-sci instructor. Democrats also are in favor of looser policies for research and development.
Another thing you need to remember, just because I have a PHD doesn't mean I am predisposed to rational behavior. It just means I am really good at focusing all my attention on a subject.
Also the better educated are not always the wealthier. Of the PHDs I know they tend to be poorer as they took the instructor route.
Remember the whole causation correlation memo that is constantly thrown around here.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
Yes, I've been that poor. Yet I was never eligible for any sort of public assistance -- because I still worked, and worse, owned a vehicle (albeit well-aged) with which to get to work. If I'd got rid of my car and sat on my ass, I could have collected a welfare check.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
And disaster recovery is, and must be, a primarily FEDERAL function.
Could New Orleans have done everything needed to make sure New Orleans was prepared for a hurricane like Katrina? Sure. But that's a stupid way to handle disasters - it doesn't make sense to have New Orleans, Louisiana, Houston, Texas, Miami, Florida, Alabama, Missippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, all each individually acquire the resources to handle a hurricane when you can have the Federal government do it ONCE and then just move those resources to wherever the hurricane lands.
There is really no way around it - the federal government must be responsible for a large part of major disaster recovery, and with Katrina, the federal government majorly screwed it up, in large part due to the complete incompetence of the Bush administration.
paintball
Could we, as a society, maybe move beyond that?
No.
Next question?
Probably because Joe the Plumber was such a great story. A guy who rabidly supports McCain apparently because as an aspiring business owner, he'd lose under Obamas tax plan. Except that he's not a plumber, is nowhere near owning his own business, would actually get a tax cut under Obamas plan and that's just as well - he's in tax deficit anyway! Meanwhile McCain and Palin are moronically promoting this guy as some kind of symbol.
Is it any wonder the press loved that story? It's just so entertaining.
"Or, like, going to the post office and waiting often for minutes in short lines with government workers who are helpful and fri... wait, that wouldn't back up your example."
Yes, it does, only in ways you didn't think of. The USPS is run more like a corporation than a government bureaucracy now. It's easier to fire a USPS employee than it is to fire drone in another federal agency. And the USPS has to compete with other private firms, like FedEx and UPS. So it keeps them on their toes. They're also governed like a corporation, with a board of directors, and an Executive that basically has all the powers of a CEO. They heavily subcontract out work to non-government third parties to reduce costs.
The key here is competition. The Post Office has it, and thus treats people like valuable customers than can be lost. The DMV doesn't. Where else are you going to go to get a drivers license?
"Oh yeah, Wal-mart."
But Wal Mart is a perfect example of markets. Their motto is "low prices, always". You're making a choice when you go to a Wal Mart to forsake other things... better service, for example... in exchange for the lowest price possible. But you have a choice. You can choose to take your money to other places... Target, Circuit City, Sears, JC Penney, Macy's... where you have the choice to spend more money and get better service.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Because the state of South Carolina refuses to acknowledge that Elections Systems & Software (ES&S) voting machines are poorly coded, unreliable and easily hackable, I will never know if my vote was counted or what it counted for. Sure, the good-ol'-boys here have been rigging elections for a long time, including those using paper ballots, but I don't think it has ever been easier.
I had an acquaintance in Denmark. He had a medical issue that he could not get treatment for, because the Danish social/medical-welfare system didn't recognise it as a real problem (tho it screwed up his life to the point that he couldn't hold down a job). He wanted to emigrate so he could get treatment elsewhere, but because he had that medical issue, he wasn't eligible to emigrate either. When I last heard from him, this situation had been going on for YEARS, with no end in sight.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
My sister was in China last year, and tried to get info on Tienanmin from her native guide.
The guide wouldn't answer directly. What he DID say was quite telling, tho: "One day there were 50,000 people. The next day, there were 50,000 bicycles."
(For those who don't get it... he was referring to EMPTY bicycles. Left behind by dead people.)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The issue that I take is with the other 99% of abortions.
So tell me, how many of these babies that would have been electively aborted are you willing to take care of yourself? Because like it or not some of the women who would choose to abort aren't fit to or capable of raising a child. If a woman's not sensible enough to use birth control correctly (though religious nutters would take that option away too), chances are she's not sensible enough to be raising a child. So how many drug addicted whore's babies are you willing to let into your own home?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
"Last year, you spent $1, 975 per-capita on medicare and medicaid. A number of countries provide universal healthcare for less than this."
And if people were just items on a conveyor belt judged solely on efficiency, you'd have a great argument.
That lower cost also means things like rationing, lower levels of physician and nurse staffing, longer (sometimes much longer) waits for critical care, and in some cases, outright denial of treatment.
It would also mean a huge blow to drug development. Making new medicines is an expensive process, and if you take away the profit motive, you're pretty much stuck with hoping that university labs can find all your new breakthroughs. There's a reason most new breakthrough drugs are developed in the US. You can make money here. Even drug companies that do have some kind of universal care in their home countries do a great deal of their research and new drug sales in the US.
Efficiency as a judge is a double edged sword. Taken to it's logical extent, it means that at some point, you start cutting the really sick and the elderly off from the system, and basically tell them that they have to die for the greater good. Even if that's not an outright policy, it's often a result of socialized medicine. Don't think so? How many Canadians and Britons die waiting for major surgeries that are rationed because of national health system budgets?
If you get a major disease, treatment without insurance may very well bankrupt you in this country, but at least you'll get to live. You can always make money back. Once you die, that's it. I'll start taking the virtues of nationalized medicine in a better light when Canadians quit coming to this country for surgery because the waiting list in their home country will literally kill them.
If nationalized care is so great, why is Europe moving to privatize more, not less of their health care systems?
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Generational Welfare and Career Welfare is a large enough portion of the welfare rolls that it constitutes a serious problem.
http://www.urban.org/publications/900288.html
The information is about a decade old, but it's the most comprehensive I could find on short notice.
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
While I am not a McCain fan AT ALL, and while it is sad that neither Palin or McCain have ANY higher education, and both Biden and Obama have great educational achievements, it is worth keeping in mind that McCain did graduate at the bottom of his class from the United States Naval Academy, which for any of you who are not military buffs, is about the most prestigious, not to mention most difficult, training facility in the world. It would be little different than criticizing an athlete for getting nearly last place in the Olympics. Yeah, it is nearly last, but it is the MF'n Olympics. Or bottom of your class from MIT, Harvard, or Stanford
I don't think it is really something that can be used to criticize his experience. The disgusting mess of this war? Now that is certainly something well worth using against him... I just think it is a separate issue from his academic achievements.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
I would have simply preferred that he'd spent more time trying to push his own plans, and less time trying to prove something by the record. Fact is fact; neither one of them has previous presidential experience, so any appeal to the historical record isn't going to get you much.
I was hacking on Palin earlier this year and someone else pointed out that she had more executive experience than all the others combined, which is absolutely true, but it doesn't mean that she will do a better job, or even that executive experience is necessary for the job.
What it boils down to for me is a simple process. I want to know what the candidates plans are. Now consistently Obama said things that I thought were forward looking and interesting. I didn't always agree with them; I don't like his trade policy much at all, for example, but I could respect an intelligent and informed plan.
McCain on the other hand, consistently pushed things I thought were discredited or intellectually weird. Using bailout money to buy bad mortgages. The gas tax repeal. The pure dishonesty on the tax issue; portraying his opponent as a socialist for voting to reverse tax cuts that McCain himself had voted against in the first place!
But far more than pushing his ideas, he pushed the idea that there was something "scary" about his opponent, an assertion with zero fact to back it up. That was the cornerstone of his campaign, frankly. My opponent is scary. My opponent hangs out with terrorists. My opponent is a socialist.
The fact that he spent so much time on ad hominem and flimsy strawman arguments suggests to me that his positions have too little substance to stand on their own. So I vote Obama.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Palin may have had a shot in 2012, until Tina Fey and the rest of the cast of Saturday Night Live destroyed her political career.
Now she will always be linked to the SNL skits and not taken seriously. I would be surprised to see her make national headlines again. I don't know Alaskan politics, so it would be interesting to see if she gets re-elected up there easily or not.
People said the same things about Ronald Reagan. He was always portrayed as being stupid in the press. He failed in two prior attempts (68 and 76) to get the nomination before he succeeded in 80.
The only people that take Tina Fey's impersonation of Palin as a real model are people that wouldn't vote for Palin anyway. The fact is that Palin has a big future in politics. Romney spent millions of his own money and actually lost support. Same for Guiliani. Palin attracts huge crowds wherever she goes. You can't buy that. Write her off if you wish. More fool you.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
My point still stands, regardless of what the baby may or may not feel. These pregnancies can also be very rough on the mother/parents physically and emotionally. I believe in a God who won't punish me for choosing to end such a pregnancy before delivery. Just because there aren't many cases like this dosen't mean there should be zero abortions. The problem is no one can agree on a middle ground, because we don't share all the same morals. Life support is a bigger moral gray area than this. Blind faith to a set of rules divine or not created thousands of years ago really chaps my ass. Remember when rain was a mysterious working of God. We have a better understanding of the world around and in us and are smart enough to adjust things/rules/laws accordingly. Do you really think God was going to take time out of his busy day to explain electricity to Moses? I've had enough Moral Majority crap to last a life time. Glad to see Jerry Falwell go. Circumcision is one of the earliest form of "birth control." If the boy is a hemophiliac he dies right away and was spared a short miserable life until the advent of modern medicine.
It's funny how you can support something for years, and as soon as it gets popular, some whiny little bitch will come along and sneer at you for "jumping on the bandwagon."
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
It's why the pharma companies paid Congress to make importing them illegal, and they have ads trying to convince us that it's dangerous to buy them from Canada. I'm talking the exact same drug, exact same ingredients, exact same brand, cheaper in Canada than here.
Otherwise we'd be importing our price-restricted drugs and not buying them here, which would close that one outlet the drug companies have for their profits.
Doctors have closed up shop in states and moved to others because baseless malpractice suits are so rampant they can't afford the malpractice insurance.
Yet when Republicans want tort reform the Lawyer industry backed Democrats stop it.
"The GOP has lost it's way, and every year the party moves to the religious right."
What a crock. The party has been led by the religious right since 1980. You're acting like you woke up one day and found Jerry Falwell had kicked out Nelson Rockefeller yesterday. I don't know what party you've been taking about, but Republican politics has been dominated as much by social issues as economic since Reagan, Schafly, and southerners took it over from the liberal northeasterners in the late 70's. And they've had a pretty good track record of success since then.
You're right in one respect about the party losing it's way... Bush embraced "campaign finance reform", "comprehensive immigration reform", and new spending with the same gusto as Democrats. So did McCain on the first two issues.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
The media has put too much effort in getting Obama elected.
Either that, or enough effort so that if McCain wins, the resulting uproar will require the declaration of martial law and an extension of the current administration.
However, I am more apt to think that the more likely attempt to extend Bush's reign will be an assassination between tomorrow and January, which will have the same net effect. Of course, as generally happens, some unforeseen eventuality will probably come along to change the rules. In any case, I wouldn't rule out a significant fuss on the 5th.
-FL
oblig. xkcd
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
That is the problem, it is being abused by a fair number of people. But I'd rather have total choice than no choice in the mean time. I can't find it but I'll say it any way, in brief. Romania outlawed abortions in the early 80s I think. They had a large spike in juvenile homeless and juvenile crime about 15 years later. There are larger and more important systemic problems than abortion, we should address them first.
And then the question becomes: what else was in that bill?
I don't understand. Isn't Bush the greatest president on earth?
How is it negative to compare him to Bush?
I can assure you that Finland and Sweden do not have any oil resources, so for these two countries your oil point is moot.
I guess what GP should have said was that *Congressional* term limits are nearly impossible to implement in practice. It's relatively easy for them to vote to limit the number of terms a president can serve, but how likely do think it is for Congress to vote for limiting *their* number of terms?
Similar to the upcoming US election results
"A baby born with anencephaly is USUALLY blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain"
Notice the word "usually."
I do support "mercy killings," but its not my preferred euphemism, it's too to the point. Would it be the same as a DNR order or do not use life support? If I can choose to artificially sustain life for hope of a better outcome then why can't I decide that time will not come and seek some other closure and let the body/soul be on its way?
Don't blame me, I voted for Zathras.
He took a duck to the face at 250 knots.
Actually, the exact same problems you describe are now predominant in Denmark. I can't speak for the situation in other Nordic countries, I can only comment on Denmark - I spent 32 years there.
Hell, I did vote for him in the primary. And I think this country wouldn't be worse off if he'd been president for the last 8 years.
I'll go one further. If McCain had been president over the past 8 years we be much better off than we are now. And I'm a lifelong democrat.
But he sold his soul for the brass ring this time around, and that level of intellectual whoredom I cannot abide.
As well said as I have seen anywhere.
cheers, ben
Never miss a good chance to shut up -- Will Rogers
"Oh if a democrat were president 9/11 would never have happened" "If a democrat were president, we wouldnt be in the war" "if if if...for the love of pete, give it up and SHOW the world things will be better".
I knew a fair share of Republicans doing this in the 2000 election. That and Reagan is responsible for everything good in America today.
Well, in defense, within hours of his televised question to Sen. Obama the media did: 1) Express the fact that he did not have a plumber's license. Which is not required when working for a master plumber. 2) Report on his issues with child support and other personal issues. 3) Publish a cartoon (Doonesbury) which portrayed a plumber as being totally ignorant of his craft but sharing views on abortion. Obviously a not-so-veiled reference to Joe t. Plumber. Which is a pretty low action for someone who is not knowledgable about said plumber's abilities. Jump on the bandwagon.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
It leads to people acquiring wealth, which goes to acquiring power. With that power, they manipulate laws and regulations to acquire more wealth (and thus more power). Eventually they become king.
Communism leads to someone having to decide who has need and who has ability, which translates directly to power. Basically, they start out as king.
The proper role of democratic government of a free economy is to insure that no one is able to manipulate the system to their own benefit. Would all those investors have made such poor choices if their riskiness was evident? Remember, sub-prime mortgages were bundled and then given an A rating? A properly operating check would make sure that both parties in these trades would be on a level playing field.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
As manufactured a stage-production as this whole show is, as much as the 'choice' is between soft and hard fascism, one is SOFT and the other is HARD.
And yes, the election system is rigged from every angle conceivable, but all voices shouting in unison in the right moments CAN change things. Even a rigged election can be overwhelmed with enough votes; I'd estimate that unless the Democrats win by a 10% margin, (in real votes versus reported votes), then McCain will take the Whitehouse and the world will continue to burn. Voices DO count; Look at France with their nation-wide strikes, where government fears the people, as it bloody-well should be. No wonder Bush made a point of publicly denouncing the French and the official reality we are fed is that, 'Protest does nothing'.
George Carlin advised that to vote means to give up the right to complain. That's nonsense. You can complain just fine no matter what you do. In fact, if things are going wrong, it's your obligation to make noise and dig your heels in. Voting takes the least amount of courage because its the one time you can complain without getting pepper-sprayed. Get out there and DO it.
-FL
Denmark, Norway and Sweden are stunning examples of what socialism really means. Some of the highest tax rates in the world, yet everybody is looked after so well.
Yeah. Get back to us with that once all the oil has run out.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
And in 2007 it was 14,000.
Let's not pretend it's been a 7 year slide. Stocks were already trending down in 2000, so if you bought in 2001, and sold in 2007, you did pretty well.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
That's almost as stupid as it is unconstitutional and inefficient.
everything in moderation
No, not entirely. I've been watching the debate and court cases for years. Many try to declare a fetus is alive in some court cast that isn't about abortion and give it all the civil/human rights of you and me, this would set presidence and then the next elective abortion could legally be declared murder.
It's band wagoners more than anyone else who claim "I've always stood for this"...but I'll take your words at face value. Very well, you've always been against intellectual whoredom. I maintain that it's a pointless position because EVERY candidate engages in it a great deal. All of them. There are differences between Obama and McCain to be sure but each of them will do whatever they can to get elected including all sorts of double-speak, truthiness talk and outright reversals of long held positions. Please don't ask me to list Obama's "intellectual whoredom" items. It's a long one. We could make a list for McCain too, put the two side by side and...prove my point. Btw...I voted for Obama.
Sorry about the mess.
So you're saying that socialism would work in the UK if the government would just keep supplying the services, even though they can't afford to pay for them?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
the mentally handicapped (in your case, paranoid schizophrenia) get a free pass on voting and responsibility
focus on being able to tie your shoelaces and use the toilet without assistance and you are doing ok in my book
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
That was not socialism.
That was highway robbery. Thievery, plain and simple.
Don't sully the name of socialism like that. Socialism is wrong and misguided, but at least it is TRYING to do what it thinks is the right thing.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
How strange, I can drive down the road from my house and look to the right every single day and see 3 dozen people sitting around doing nothing. I see these same people at the grocery store paying for things with food stamps.
20 of them are working age, healthy (based on them playing football and basketball in the yard) people.
But none of them are working, or going to school. I've seen the same thing in Baltimore and DC. I've talked to a lot of other people who have also seen it. I know this is merely anecdotal evidence, but I believe that the burden of generational and career welfareists of all races is large enough that it will prevent any kind of socialist agenda from succeeding in the long term. The weight of those who refuse to contribute is just going to be too much for the rest of us to bear.
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
However, most people believe in smaller government, in a government that is less intrusive, and in free markets.
I wish that were true. In practice, what the Republican party believes in is:
Smaller government while they're not running it
Less intrusive government when they're not choosing the intrusions
Free markets as long as they're booming
If they actually believed in the three pillars you listed, they wouldn't have dropped them like a hot rock in 2000.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Push for all candidates to sign a pledge that congressional committee appointments will be by random selection.
So you'd kick the congresscritters out of the committees that handle things they understand and put them on random committees? Seems to me that leaves them even more as puppets of their party's machine.
For instance: Ron Paul is essentially the only congresscritter with an understanding of economics. So bumping him from the House Banking committee would greatly reduce the effectiveness of the congress' oversight of the Fed and the banks.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
My entire state is a constitution-free zone as defined by the aclu
I saw it somewhere before (probably on a sig here on slashdot)... the root password to the constitution is terrorism.
At least I would have. But neither of my senators is up this time and my representative was one of the very few in my state who voted against both versions.
I hope others, who have the opportunity, make the point in the booth this time around.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I don't believe your comment was worth a troll mod
Thanks. It's probably my fault for saying something offensive without providing a reference. Oh well, if they're as smart as they think they are, they will do the research themselves :) I'll just offer this one example like any of a thousand others from http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
Road to 270: West Virginia:
What McCain Has Going For Him:
No state has less educated voters in the aggregate
And so on.
Rather the democratic platform favor's schools FAR more.
Good point. However, it makes me wonder how vehemently I should argue that a platform favouring education and research is more rational. Probably not much. Or is that just an artifact of the particular kind of anti-education agenda favoured by Republicans, which currently involves suppression of science in favour of religious doctrine? Hey, someone who has been ignoring current events will probably think that that's a troll too.
just because I have a PHD doesn't mean I am predisposed to rational behavior.
I dispute that--on average. I'm not saying that it's cause-and-effect or even that the correlation is 100%, but I will go on record as saying that getting a PhD (at least in science!) is very strongly correlated with being able to think clearly, and to discover and question one's own assumptions. On the other hand, smart people are better at justifying stupidity than dumb people.
Furthermore, while my "Where's Republican Waldo?" challenge referenced AAAS and NAS, the numbers I've seen show that one needn't look as far as PhDs and career academics to see the correlation between more education and voting Democrat. Still no reference. Yeesh. So prove me wrong :)
Also the better educated are not always the wealthier. Of the PHDs I know they tend to be poorer as they took the instructor route.
Yes--I don't know how many PhDs with more than $250k/year (ie. those who will be "hurt" by Obama's tax plan (if they consider only take-home money as a measure of wealth)) are voting Democrat. My sample are--unanimously--but it's too small and self-selected (an even dozen) to be useful.
Again, there are plenty of non-academics with good BA/BS/MA/MS/legal/medical/etc degrees making piles of money and voting Democrat. Again, I really do need to do things besides track down references, but I'll watch this thread, and if anyone really cares and can't find supporting research, I know I can locate some.
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
The biggest problem I have with the Republicans and the Social Right, is that they are certain that everything they do is perfect, and everyone who disagrees is not only wrong, but also a bad, evil person.
Sheesh!? And the Social Left is any different? Want to be proven wrong? Watch the gnashing of teeth from the left if anyone claims that global warming is not a man-made phenomena.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
That's not socialism. That's facism.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
I too had hoped for more from McCain.
When I was watching Obama's half-hour TV slot the other night, It occurred to me that he did not mention McCain much, if at all.
I can't help but think that a half hour McCain/Palin slot would have been about nothing but Obama's supposed evildoing.
Nullius in verba
The problem with analyzing this with game theory is that game theory often assumes that the players are rational agents ;)
The question is, "Is this the reason that we continue to see elections that hinge on 49% to 50% results?"
If your the campaigners, you want to agree to battle it out, but not get to far ahead. You have to keep the people thinking that their vote would be wasted.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Get on an airplane without having to take my shoes off?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Comes the new day, the equitiy holders in the great global financial institutions will open their Times (London, NY, w/e) over breakfast and nod approvingly. The scions of dynastic family fortunes will still have their way, and the underlings who do their bidding will function exactly as yesterday. I will learn of the outcome accidentally and not care one bit. I will simply be satisified knowing that I have again not soiled my hand by endorsing any of the liars, cheats, lackies, and demagogues on the ballot. They are all, without exception, scum. We don't get to vote for the people who really make a difference in our lives. We do, however, get to vote for our own personal honor.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
Fifty percent of the nation will think they have free shit coming their way because they voted for That One.
Fixed that for you.
This is my sig.
Also:
- States and localities are supposed to be prepared for and handle the first three days, while FEMA's charter (at the time) was to mobilize the big stuff (financial aid, rebuilding, food restocking, etc.) that comes in after that time.
- The fed was PROHIBITED (by The Posse Comitatus Act) from coming in without permission from the state's governor - which was withheld. So the fed mobilized as much as it could meanwhile, bringing some of it up to the state line and handing off some others to Non-Governmental Organizations (one of which was the Salvation Army) to bring in. (Then the NGOs were blocked from entering by the state and local authorities, too.)
(One tinfoil hat theory is that the NGOs were deliberately blocked in a political move to increase the suffering and thus the administration's embarrassment when it was blamed on them.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
And where in the constitution is the prohibition against federal spending on disaster recovery?
There are certain aspects of disaster recovery where one-per-country is more efficient than one-per-state or one-per-city. It doesn't make sense, for example, for every major city to have their own set of emergency housing trailers when one set that gets moved as necessary will do. Why force every city to pay full price for things most cities will never need when all cities can, through the federal government, pay a portion of the cost and the city that ends up getting hit by the hurricane gets the resources? Seems more efficient to me.
Now that certainly doesn't mean EVERY aspect of disaster recovery is that way, but some things are indeed better done from the federal level.
paintball
Selling their drugs cheap in price-controlled countries while charging us to keep up profits is a subsidy. We pay to keep their drug prices low.
Better to get little money than none at all, especially if that foreign country decides to manufacture your drug itself despite your patents.
Err....it did as he was leaving. Remember that dot com bubble bursting? Bush 2 essentially inherited a recession...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I went to vote this morning in Madison, Wisconsin, only to find that despite having registered I had been removed from the list. Why? Because our corrupt attorney general insisted on purging the voter rolls (http://www.madison.com/wsj/topstories/304321). Anybody living in Wisconsin should help vote J.B. Van Hollen out of office next time he's up. Not that Lautenschlager was much butter, but this turd wants to control the elections and make sure republicans win. Our right to vote in the future depends on getting him out.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Insurance policies are not socialism. I voluntarily pay you to voluntarily assume some risk that I am unable or unwilling to assume. I may choose to keep my money (and my risk). You may choose not to sell me a policy. That is a free market.
Socialism would be Obama deciding that I should pay for others to have a $1000 tax credit.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
So, Obama isn't a socialist because republicans were involved in socialist legislation? Does that pass anyone's logical error test???
No, it's socialism. I think you are complaining about how the two heads of the same friggin party are socialistic. Libertarians would say it's socialism. Anyone with a brain would say it's socialism. I don't have the information behind the graph to back this up, but it is interesting just in a thought-provoking sense:
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v374/179/71/1103467/n1103467_32537534_5793.jpg
The US welfare system is broken, IMHO. The problem is, the welfare system doesn't encourage people to find jobs (and worse, it doesn't provide assistance for doing so).
By contrast, the LDS Church has an extremely efficient welfare system; those who receive welfare through the church are required to show exactly what they've been doing to obtain work, and only then do they receive help in the form of rent money or food stamps. Various training courses are provided at no cost, and temporary minimum-wage jobs are available until a permanent job can be located. Assistance is also provided for locating jobs.
The primary difference is this - the goal of the US welfare system is to give people the bare minimum so they can eat, but the goal of the LDS Church's welfare system is to make people self-sufficient.
I believe if the US welfare system were redesigned to work like the LDS welfare system, there would eventually be far fewer people on welfare... and although it would cost more in the short run (the biggest reason this will never happen), it would cost a lot less in the long run.
Amen, brother. Your choices this election are big government and bigger government. Another nice one I've heard is: your choices this election are a warmonger who is a reluctant socialist and a socialist who is a reluctant warmonger.
Who *isn't* throwing their vote away this election?
Insert Twain's statement here about statistics and lies.
Okay, we'll take poor Joe out of his quotes. We still get 28,389 results. Still less than quoteless Wright or Ayers.
Searching for Joe the Plumber OUT of quotes will show hits from all sites that contain all three words, or more to the point, all sites that contains both words, "Joe", and "Plumber". Just like your search for "Reverend" and "Wright" will return all sites with both words. It may be a site for a church that is led by Reverend Smith and has a Deacon Wright. Not exactly the same thing. The only way to get proper results is to perform all three searches, with both names in quotes. In other words, google for "William Ayers", "Reverend Wright" and "Joe the Plumber".
But come on! You know how to do a Google search don't you? If not, you should turn in your slashdot card now! If you do know how to do a proper Google search, then you are being intentionally deceptive and you are proving my point about how easy it is to present false information as truth.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I have carefully read all 1587 posts on this topic before posting something that would be a duplicate of a previous post--just like all of you. Right? :-)
The Internet--the first global Write Only Memory.
I left the USA after GWB was re-elected, mostly on principle since I'd said I'd do so if he was re-elected, but also just because I wanted to try somewhere else. I've been in New Zealand for two years now. It's a fine place, and I would stay IF I could get all my friends and family to move here too. For most people, friends and family are irreplaceable, and for that reason, it's not a very worthwhile suggestion to just say that people who don't like a system can just move elsewhere. Most people will put up with quite a bit of societal headache just to be near the people they love.
I'll be moving back to the USA early next year. When Obama is president, and the people of the USA have actually shown some collective good judgement, I'll feel much better about being there. I can only hope that this election will be the start of a long series of societal improvements, because the problem with the USA runs much, much deeper than presidents or politics. It's social, and it's getting worse.
and his running mate managed to beat Joe Biden in the say-something-dumb contest, completely even coverage was never going to happen.
Oh, come on! Palin never said anything as stupid as, "Three letters! J-O-B-S!"
As for the rest of your comment, you make a good point about Ayers and Wright ducking out of the media limelight. Unfortunately, the searches we performed were not limited to "recent" news stories. It's easy to customize you search for all of 2008, which shows that "Joe the Plumber" got more coverage in the past two months than the other two guys got all year!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
And now consider the relative likelihood of those two possibilities. One candidate is 47 with no known health problems, while the other is 72 and has a history of cancer.
Even if the two VP candidates were equally undesirable (which I don't belive it is), their impact on my decision making process would not be.
If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
I love the way someone gets modded +4 Informative for being wrong. Tell me, do you realize that your search for William Ayers (no quotes) will show, underneath all the results for "William Ayers", all of the results for "William Jefferson Clinton", "William Shakespeare", "William Wallace", and every other "William" whose presence is known to the Internet?
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Diregarding , of course polls that show in the rest of the world 79% are infavour of Obama.
Speaking as a citizen of a foreign country, I hope Obama is elected, and can return the US to the high esteem it was held in by many such as myself for all but the last 8 years.
You apparently forget that, without quotes, despite "Joe the Plumber" being the top search result, any other result with "Joe" or "Plumber" will be tallied into that number, which renders it absolutely meaningless.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Is that really the best you've got? What's the worst case there? Oh noes, energy efficiency!
Whereas the Right gets us involved in stupid wars, alienates our allies, crushes our economy, tries to pervert the teaching of science in public schools, and illegally detains and tortures POWs in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention.
Yea. God. Dems in the White House. Scaaaaary.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
There are many single mothers who live on welfare payments. I don't mind this much -- caring for a child is a full-time job until the child starts school. But once the child is at school the mother should be able to find some work. The problem is, they might (reasonably) only have time for 5 hours work a day, but if they get a job they lose the welfare payments, so they'd be worse off. It's not perfect, hopefully it'll continue to be improved.
The all or nothing assistance is a problem in the U.S. as well. A well designed benefits program will slowly taper off as the person improves their own situation, but in a way that earning more on their own will always improve their overall situation.
The all or nothing rules also tend to turn a short term problem into a long-term one. A person has a set-back and ends up on assistance. They have a much better chance of returning to self reliance if they are free to take what work they can get when they can get it. Unfortunately, they are put in a position where they must find work that will solve their problem overnight or remain entirely unemployed. The latter is much more likely.
Meanwhile, the assistance isn't quite enough to go to school on (at least not if they have children) so they can have a better shot at solving the problem for good.
Of course with gov't supported school initiatives I think that would be a futile area for me to argue on as I am a believer in private schools for K-12. Gov't subsidized loans for the families who cannot afford it. Public school has been screwed up enough (Republicans mostly to thank for that). This also makes the Science vs Religion debate go poof as we will see quickly where people put their money.
I agree that smart people are better at justification than stupid people. I have many friends who are living proof of that. Also think of all the IT guys you know that you would hire in a sec but would never want on your debate team.
I've seen show that one needn't look as far as PhDs and career academics to see the correlation between more education and voting Democrat. Still no reference. Yeesh. So prove me wrong :) You cant be proven wrong here because it is easily statistically provable that Democrats are more educated. I think the argument would need to be taken to the grounds of, is the democratic platform more rational than other platforms?
As I said before, College profs tend to be democrat because that is what is healthy for public schooling. Who in their right mind would support politicians trying to squash your funding at every turn when they can vote for one that would bolster your budget to help you teach? That being said, the PHDs are the mentors of the college student for 4-6 years so the democratic platform has a wonderful advertising campaign right there. The republicans have Christians, the democrats have College institutions. An interesting balance.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
Also, of the non-academics with "BA/BS/MA/MS/legal/medical/etc degrees" that I personally know (not to be mistaken for all democrats) I find that more of them are in severe conflict with the democratic platform than republicans are with their platform. Maybe republicans are less likely to look into what their party is doing. Whereas my democrat friends are staunch pro-life, anti-gay, anti social healthcare individuals. It is just weird...its like they are just dems because it is cool to be dem or something.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
he did serve as a negative example.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
The poll workers were unable to determine if I had voted or not.
They called tech support, who had no idea. Level 1 support referred it to the County's Registrar of Voters.
He agreed that there was no way to verify if a vote had been cast or not. Nor were they able to verify whether any votes cast by the machine were recorded in accordance to my instructions.
The only thing they know for sure is that the paper vote printed for my verification, then when I tried to verify it, a big red screen came up to say that the smart card was not valid.
They think that it must have recorded the vote, then ejected the card. Then I must have bumped the card back in. Or maybe it failed to eject properly and that caused the error. That's what they think. But they don't know. And they have no way of verifying that the vote was actually counted. Nor could they cancel my vote and let me vote again. Not even with the error still on the screen.
With the smart card still in the machine, and before anyone else voted at the machine, there was no ability to vouch for the integrity of my vote.
Some system.
Palin is the pinnacle of the anti intellectually curiosity crowd. The intellectually curious crowd, is, of course, what people talk about when they talk about the 'elitists'.
There are conservative and liberal 'elitists', yet these are the people who did well in school and were punished for it. They are still punished today with this label and still get scorn heaped upon them. These elitists are not necessarily smart, but what they do share is a love of learning and a love of thinking. They are easy to kick around.
Palin is not unintelligent and she has a good memory. She doesn't seem interested in knowing anything that's not of the US, and probably not anything that's not rural US.
She is like the kid in class who says "Math is dumb, why should I have to learn it, why would I ever need it?".
Ignorant more then racist.
60% of people who receive welfare also work full time.
Most peopel use welfare for a short period of time, to get a job.
Welfare is an investment, and almost everybpdy uses it as such.
Yes, there are a few that 'abuse' it, but it is a very tiny amount.
Stopping buying into the neocon lies and look it up for yourself, you moron.
And yeah, there was no reason to call out different groups based on the pigmentation of their skin to make your ignorant point.
Now, is the countries previously mentioned there are people that 'do nothing' by Neocon standards, but those get conveniently overlooked.
"But with millions of people who expect to DO NOTHING "
The ONLY way that is true if if you include people under 18.
Your ignorance of the welfare systems is astounding. STFU and read up on the numbers. All of which are publicly available from legitimate source. No Rush L. is not a legitimate source.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Two medical doctors, husband and wife, went to have an abortion when they discovered that blood samples from the mother indicated that their baby had anecephaly. Ultrasounds also showed a malformation around the baby's head. So, somewhere in the 20th week of pregnancy, the ob/gyn administered a, "forced birth," abortion, where the child is delivered prematurely. The baby's body was carried to a soiled linen room by a nurse.
The birth father went to examine the baby to find, to his horror, that his son was perfectly formed and was healthy. The abnormality was caused by an incomplete twin whose sack was near his son's head, both explaining the high protein levels in the blood and the ultrasound. And his son died in that soiled linen room.
I can relate to this story, because the same thing happened with my daughter. We knew that abortion was morally wrong, so we kept going, even knowing the risk for anecephaly in my daughter. Except, in her case, her twin brother died in the 20th month of pregnancy, which is why we saw the same thing in my wife's bloodwork.
And now, she will be turning 6 in January, and is the top student in her class.
I can not bring myself to vote for someone who has sworn to continue and further the genocide of 4000 babies per day. And that is why I did not vote for Obama.
--Chag
It in no way lends credence to your point.
Also, the government releases all that information. It is easily available.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Have you tried actually talking to them, perhaps find out what their story is? Are you sure they don't work the night shift?
Someone who didn't know I telecommute might think I don't work unless they talked to me and I mentioned work.
Regardless of whether McCain is the best man for the job of President, his clear anti-torture stance - which went against the general Republican stance at the time - was something he should be admired for.
I disagree. A politician doesn't get any admiration from me just for not being pro-torture.
That's like saying "I really admire and respect the way so-and-so refuses to rape schoolchildren, and I'm very impressed with the fact that he doesn't abduct prostitutes and bludgeon them to death with a hammer." Anybody with an ounce of moral fiber would stand up against torture. That doesn't make him praiseworthy, it just means I have no reason to revile him based on that particular issue.
The sad fact that so many Republicans signed on to the Fuck-Yeah-Let's-Electrocute-Us-Some-Testicles platform makes those Republicans monsters. But merely failing to support such an evil policy doesn't elevate someone in my eyes -- if you admire the guy for that, it just means you've lowered the bar a lot on what you consider admirable. He only looks good on this front when compared to really bad people.
If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
I ahve my doubts about the truth of your story.
Since most people on welfare DO work full time jobs.
Oops, inconvenient fact.
The never took my vehicle into account during the few months I had to use welfare. Becasue I got welfare I was able to focus on getting a Good job instead of on that just get's by. This means it was an investment. That is what welfare is.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Except it isn't failing. The privatization happening in Europe has nothing to do with the success or failure of socialism.
Of course, I doubt you know what that is.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If true it is the exception. I wonder what he had?
America spends more on the medical industry then any other country, yet we are 40th as far a quality of car. so do you really want to compare quality?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Weird. Is that sort of like Catholics who use contraception?
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
Because he isn't talking about killing anyone or blowing anything up?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
It's amazing how people complain about workers in America being lazy when we're the most productive in the world and the gains in productivity end up being redistributed to those that don't really need any more money.
But it doesn't work like that. Do you know anybody who has their own business and DOES make more than $250,000? Here's the theory. They got that way by growing their business. Maybe started off barely able to make ends meet but took all their extra money and corporate profits and reinvested to make the business grow. Then the business got big enough to give them a health salary. Now, with their big salary, they take their extra money and add a location, or buy a new truck or more equipment. That, in turn, creates jobs which allow everybody else to make some money. If the average profit margin for a company is 8%, which I'm not saying it is, but that works for the folks I've worked for, then increasing taxes by 8% pretty much wipes out profits. Wipe out profits, wipe out growth. Wipe out growth, wipe out jobs. Wipe out jobs....well...you guess.
You'll have that sometimes...
Err....it did as he was leaving. Remember that dot com bubble bursting? Bush 2 essentially inherited a recession...
Nah. He's got you there. Say what you want about Clinton, but he did a good job with the economy. That's pretty much undeniable. He made it a priority early in his presidency to focus on reducing national debt instead of tax cuts as a good way to keep the economy strong and he was right. It worked. Huge surplus, record low unemployment, smallest growth in government spending in a while...He did a fine job. I don't think you can really provide evidence that says otherwise.
You'll have that sometimes...
Oh my! You can't agree on something as simple as voting without resisting the urge to make a (very) feeble personal jab of some sort?
Ego first, country second. You'd do well in politics.
-FL
Can you please explain to me how this constitutes either a straw man or a logical fallacy?
I see no logical flaw in the argument itself.. perhaps you're talking about some assumed/unstated premise?
http://www.xkcd.com/354/
I dispute that--on average. I'm not saying that it's cause-and-effect or even that the correlation is 100%, but I will go on record as saying that getting a PhD (at least in science!) is very strongly correlated with being able to think clearly, and to discover and question one's own assumptions.
Yes, but one could argue getting a PhD is very strongly correlated with the desire to stay in school without actually having to produce anything. Just saying...
You'll have that sometimes...
never mind.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Yeah, it was rough. I waited for two hours to vote in a zip code who's population is less than 2,500. I tell you, I get no regard... no regard at all. No esteem neither!
It depends... Socialism is about redistributing from the rich to the poor, not the reverse. That would be more like... roberbaronism ?
Someone wrote a journal entry some time back about it, but I don't have the link. Since we're bailing out all these big companies that screwed up, it's clear that the proper term is "failureism"
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Politicians never really stop campaigning, of course, but I think it's exacerbated by two things in the US:
1. Fixed election day. Which is useful in its own right, but encourages campaigning to start early. Where I live (Australia), the government can call an election any time within a certain window, which prevents parties from entering full-scale campaign mode until then.
2. Term limits. When an incumbent runs, their governing--what they're doing in office--is a major part of their campaign. The challenger's campaign is forced to focus on what the incumbent has done wrong and what they'd do differently. Without an incumbent, it's much more hot air and promises, the kind of campaigning that gets tiresome. The US has very low term limits, relatively speaking, which creates many incumbent-free elections.
I should buy some cement.
So I proudly put on a vote Libertarian t-shirt, this morning and wore it all day. I went straight to the polls right after work, the parking lot was crowded, but I only had a 20 minute wait at the polls. Several of the poll workers and others, whom are there to vote, make comments that they like my shirt. I get my ticket from the poll worker, strangely after showing no identification other than my voter registration card made from flimsy yellow poster-board. This is not my first time voting, I always remember having to show at least one additional form of ID.
After I get my ticket, I go stand in line, maybe 15 people in front of me. A poll worker comes up to me, stares blankly at my shirt for at least a minute without saying anything. So I am thinking she must be amused by my shirt, I just stand there waiting for her to say something with this shit-eating grin on my face. Finally, she says, "Sir, I am going to have to ask you to remove your shirt, or turn it inside-out." To which I reply, "I don't think so. Why, would I turn my shirt inside out?" She retorts, "Because it is political." Baffled, I say, "So what, isn't that why we are here?" She says, "Sir, please leave your ticket with a poll worker, go outside, and put on another shirt, or turn your shirt inside-out." I went back and forth with her for a few minutes on this, trying to get more than "it is political" out of her. At one point, I said, "Do I not have a civil right to freely express myself with a corny t-shirt, protected under the First Amendment?" Poll worker would not dignify that question with a response other than rolling her eyes.
After five minutes of this, I give up. I walk up to one of poll workers, hand them my ticket, walk outside and turn my shirt inside-out. I walk back in, grab my ticket and get back in line. At this time, a very cute 18-20 yr. old blonde, turns to me. She, the cute blonde, grins and says, "You know, I can still read it." Which really makes me laugh about this whole situation that was a bit embarrassing.
About 5 minutes later, I go up to vote, hand another poll worker my ticket. This woman, the poll worker at the voting booth, looked like a grizzled old lunchlady. She had fresh stitches in her face, and old monochrome blue-ink tattoos up her arms. In other words, it is probably not a woman you want to mess with. So she is politely showing me how to use this new-fangled electronic voting booth, as I told her, I had only voted with a paper ballot in the past. After she is finished, she laughs and says, "Sorry about your shirt."
I was aware that campaigning outside or near polling places was not legal, otherwise known as electioneering. However, I had never heard of the terms "passive electioneering" for wearing political pins or clothing items, that is until I went home and found it by Google. Is this, in fact, legal in many states? Is this not unconstitutional to deny someone their right to vote for a corny t-shirt. At first, I almost thought the poll worker was going to tell me to cover up my t-shirt, because it said "Libertarian".
Did anyone else have any similar embarrassing or humorous stories from the polls?
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
how likely do think it is for Congress to vote for limiting *their* number of terms?
Good thing that we don't need their input. If enough people spread out over enough states wanted it bad enough, we could call a Constitutional convention and do it ourselves.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
If there's really any "flaw" to the concept of having totally unregulated free markets, it's probably that it's a concept thought of by intelligent "long term" thinkers.
I'd say the "flaw" is in deciding just what "unregulated" means. In the extreme case, an unregulated market would allow anyone to do literally anything... including, say, kidnapping your competitor's CEO and holding him for ransom. Clearly that's not acceptable, so there has to be SOME regulation. So now you have to figure out where to draw the line. But where? Is racial discrimination in making loan decisions acceptable? Is the use of Microsoft-style monopoly tactics to squeeze out your competition considered okay, or not? Why? Etc. And pretty soon, you're back to our current system again, with a muddle of regulations, some effective, some not.
Free markets sound good in theory, but in real life they quickly degenerate back into what we have now. If the government doesn't regulate, then the most aggressive (and most powerful) private entities will step in and make their own "regulations" (enforced by their economic power), the difference being that their regulations will not be arrived at through any sort of democratic process, and will inevitably server their own interests alone.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
I don't need to look up encephaly - I've got a sister in law who gave birth to a child with the disease. After birth, she got to hold her first child for the few hours of her short life. Afterward, they gave her a Christian burial.
What impressed me the most was not that they thought she was going to live, but that they stuck by their principles. They gave her the same opportunity to live that had been given to them. And while there was little doubt about her fate prior to delivery, they resolved to give her the best care medicine could provide for the short time she lived outside the womb. Instead of abandoning their child, they gave her every chance possible to live. I think it came down to living out the golden rule, "do unto others as you would have done unto you." Just as I would make every effort and spare no expense to keep myself alive, I can't in good conscience deny someone else the chance to live, no matter how slight the odds may be.
I suspect the reason why diseases such as encephaly are 100% fatal is because parents are told that their children have no chance of surviving, and hence, have them killed by abortion. Hence, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where anyone with the disease dies, regardless of whether or not they could have survived it. I find it more likely that the fatality rate for this condition is driven by hopelessness and fear than the lack of technical means to keep the child alive; if we can put a man on the moon and the complete vacuum of space, surely we could keep someone with an exposed brain alive. The artificial heart is nearly 20 years old by now. The primary difference, though, is that a lot more people have heart attacks, and there's a lot more money involved in keeping them alive.
Which is interesting that it comes down to money, and inevitably, power. A society in which the rich and powerful oppress the poor and weak can hardly be called civilized. Yet, we all start out helpless and weak, and only by the gift of life and support given us by our parents can we become self-sufficient. It would seem that anyone who denies someone else the same gift upon which they've relied for their success is hippocritical. Even worse, it is done for purely arbitrary reasons - the mother cares not for the child, or justifies her decision by reasoning that it is only a matter of time before the child dies. When we think about it, this last statement is true of all of us; if we can deny someone the protection of law, or life-giving care simply because their death is only a matter of time, then we can justify killing anyone, for surely the death of anyone is only a matter of time.
The notion that terminal conditions somehow justify killing someone is ridiculous, as life itself is a terminal condition. At what point does, "going to die anyway" justify killing someone? If they are expected to die in the next day? The next hour? When? What I think it comes down to is that those who want to kill others when they become burdensome are searching for a rationale to justify their decision. But ultimately, the decision to have an abortion is about selfishness, not the best interests of the child.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I agree. I'm pretty anti-Republican, but had McCain stayed true to his "maverick" self, he would have had a good shot at my vote. As it is, third party all the way. Neither major party is getting my vote until they stop being corporate whores.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
Only the economy of Norway is based on oil. Denmark has few oil resources, and Sweden none at all. Then there's Finland, which has few natural resources to speak of (except for undependable wood exports), but still has a strong welfare state.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Oh, you mean with an inferior university system, an inferior business environment, inferior access to the world's latest advanced technologies, and an inferior health care system? Because you tax everyone's incomes to death and provide so many governmental services, that people have less incentive to be productive and innovative? You can go ahead and keep your Nordic quality of life, thankyouverymuch.
P.S. The U.S. health care system is the best in the world. It's also the most expensive, but it's still the best. The WHO statistics for life expectancy don't account for risk factors. If you factor out homicides and vehicle deaths, we have the longest life expectancy in the modern world.
http://www.aei.org/books/bookID.859/book_detail.asp
Well, let's see how smart Google really is. Search for "Joe the Plumber" without quotes: 33,451 - same search as above, but a different result.
Search for "Plumber -Joe" (also without quotes): 219,000.
Search for "Joe -Plumber" (also without quotes: 8,450,000.
I'm guessing that Google knows what I mean by "Joe the plumber" without quotes. But it appears that Joe has thousands of new articles written about him since earlier today!
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
This is not in the bag.
Read the rest here.
-FL
America's edge in universities is only in the sciences, not the humanities. I'm very happy with the University of Helsinki. Free to attend and excellent libraries (better than anything I found in the American universities where I did undergraduate work). And the subject I study isn't even available in the United States anymore, because universities tend to hype a handful of sexy fields and drop the rest.
Broadband penetration is better here and the availability of new consumer electronics is pretty much the same anywhere.
With the possible exception of Denmark, the argument that people are "taxed to death" in Nordic countries really doesn't hold water. While taxes are higher in the U.S., one ends up with much, much more disposable income than in the US, thanks to part to a culture where owning a car isn't obligatory. The Swedish middle class treats Bali like its playground, that hardly sounds like something people straining under an evil oppressive tax yoke would do.
And yet the economies of Sweden and Finland surged after instituting the welfare state.
is who I would vote for - if I could. I hope he wins! Moe
SARAVA!
I'll bite.
Why do you make a distinction based on skin colour between those two groups, when in reality, they are in the same position, with the same problems. You are pretending its a race issue, but its not.
But you are right, there are a lot of no-hopers in the US that suck up govt resources at various levels.
Don't you think that things like better education will improve the lot of these people, and mean they are less likely to be a drain on society in the future?
Don't you think there is a correlation between the high-quality education provided in Nordic countries, and their smaller % of white/black/brown/whatever trailer trash?
You have a very persuasive argument.
That is, it's persuasive if you have no idea how taxes work.
Here's a hint: taxes are assessed on your profits, not on your total gross income.
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
And please, don't answer with anything remotely related to the 1st amendment, ...
... and I see no constitutional right to advertise.
Well, it just so happens that the founding fathers thought of this very scenario: Ninth Amendment to the US Constitution
With an Obama win my main concern is that the left leaning organizations that were so rabid and dogged in their pursuit of watching GW don't drop the ball and all of sudden become blind to an Obama administration.
I'd recommend everybody make a list of the things (violations of civil liberties) that GW enacted and re-visit them 2 years down the road to see if Obama has ordered them stopped or is continuing them.
Alot of us don't buy that. I mean some of remember how the world supposedly loved the US after 9/11 yet it was only a couple of weeks after it that we had Guiliani return a donation from the Saudis because of a crack about us deserving it.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
Your candidate exists, he's just not on the ballot this year.
Incidentally, he's my candidate as well. I also did not vote in this election.
I am born and live in Denmark. Well, the world is not perfect here, but watching the american election and the problems you are facing in the states, I'm really happy to live in this little paradise. Our community can (i think) easily be compared to the one of Canada ... a society, where we aim to make sure that nobody is left behind, while everybody have the possibility to move along. It's an aim, and not (yet?) reality. We are working on it, we are working on it :)
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Good point. The only problem is that we would need a certain level of organization to get it done. I don't suppose you know of any groups that have that as its purpose, do you? (serious question, since I don't know of any but wish I did)
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Just watched the McCain concession speech. Nice to see the old man act like a gentleman for the first time in months.
Now we just have to make it through to January without Bush blowing us all up.
-FL
HOORAY
SARAVA!
I feel Presidents don't have any control over the economy. It seems to me Congress exerts much more influence but not nearly as much as they think they can.
When the economy is doing well, we call the lucky sitting President a "good" president. When it cycles the other way, that president is an "awful" leader.
-- Posted from my parent's basement
Big Brother, the media has shown what it is capable of. Step 1) present a biased view of the current Pres by implying crazy things, like he was responsible for the internet bubble bursting, he knew about 9/11 before it happened and even natural disasters like Katrina. Then he gets the blame for believing Saddam had WMD technology, when everybody on the planet thought he did including Congress (or at least the voted as if they did). The media also has a sly side. I can't count the TV shows that had direct and indirect criticism of the President, mentioning exaggerated or fictitious information. Step 2) Biased representation of the favored challenger. the media was so blatant in their love for the Democrats. They are unionized and always lean left, but they went overboard this election. CNN had a story about how daytime TV shows like Oprah, The View and Ellen had fun dancing and complimenting Obama, but they turned ugly, grilling McCain on issues he was in agreement with Obama on. I can't think of a positive representation in the media of any Republican in the last year. The media was well paid for their efforts, with record media spending. Are they in control? I'd bet 50% of Americans think Bush is responsible for something, anything he didn't have any control over, because the media said so, over and over and over again. Great programming? What will they do next?
AS a Republican I have to say that Obama's acceptance speech blew me away. I almost had my lighter out in one hand, my seig heil in the other... save the planet, yes my fuhrer!
Seriously, that was one hell of a speech, and I honestly hope his administration succeeds.
This is my sig.
I, for one, welcome our new African-American overlords...
Sorry... I just couldn't resist.
This is similar to the Australian welfare system. Surprisingly enough over 80% of Australian welfare recipients are off it in under 6 months because its set up to be a system to be used whilst finding employment*. Unless you are claiming a Disability, Aged or Study pension you are required to look for work to receive payment (which is not much, just enough to cover the cost of living) and if you don't find work within 12 weeks you are given assistance to do so.
* I didn't include AuStudy (payments received whilst studying), but this is the same transient nature of our social security system, just a little more drawn out. The recipient is still required to demonstrate that they are studying and look for work whilst not enrolled in study. I have no problem with paying money from tax into helping other Australians study, its an investment as in a few years they will enter the workforce as educated labour and pay more tax than uneducated labour.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Just heard Obamas victory speech.
We here in Australia, are traditonally extremely cynical about politicians in general. But to my amazement I was inspired and moved in a way I rarely have by a speech of any kind. I was too young to hear JFK speak at the time, the same for Dr King, and this was the closest thing I have heard to the recordings of their speeches. I fell like a pivotal moment has come.
Hopefully Mr Obama can restore the admiration the rest of the world has had for the US for as long as I can remember prior to this century.
I dont believe it, for the first time since 2001 I feel some hope for us as a species. Shit.
Damn that cynical little voice thats telling me "You've been sucked in"
Heady stuff indeed.
Not directly on-thread but I really have to wonder about the validity or insight of this quote anymore. From what I've seen, especially recently, the "voters" can't vote themselves shit. And when they try to STOP a tiny fraction of their fellow Americans receiving absurdly expensive "gifts from the public treasury," they are ignored...
"Democracy." It's just a slogan.
Why? Clearly he's lacking the needed experience. You should have voted for Zathras like I did instead.
And they're both capitalist, its only a matter of degrees. I certainly see no reason to think McCain was the lesser of two evils after 8 years of one of the most disastrous presidencies on record. And apparently the US electorate don't think so either.
But thanks for not actually refuting it, says it all. Claim bigotry on my part rather the try to disprove my claim. Not that it matters, the same could be said about many "freedom fighters" or "believe institutions". No catholic should question why they live in poverty while the vatican is richer then many nations.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The brits? The french? The canadians? The icelanders?
Come on, the fast majority of the world does NOT follow the american dream and a fair amount of them do NOT kill millions of their own people. Hell, tens of millions of their own people? Most countries don't even have that many people so how could they ever kill that many?
No my dear friend, it is time you take of the blinders and truly look at the rest of the world and see that there are other methods. perhaps today, with the election of Obama and the end of neo-conservative rule (Clinton was for all purposes a republican) the US seems to have taken a new path. Wether Obama can actually change anything remains to be seen, but the voter has made it clear, the masses are no longer listening to the neo-conservatives. The silent majority has voted for the first time and their voice is clear. Out with the old and lets try something new.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Err....it did as he was leaving. Remember that dot com bubble bursting? Bush 2 essentially inherited a recession...
Graph for reference
The downhill slide in the dotcom-heavy NASDAQ started at least eight months before Clinton left office.
If you disregard short-term fluctuations in the market, the DOW peaked near the middle of Clinton's second term.
See the current decline has been going on for about 12 months. If you examine the last 30 years closely, you'll see this doesn't happen prior to every election, but the DOW does seem to tank when presidents are up against term limits.
I'd agree with that last one - Socialism is a system of common ownership of the means of production - but I don't see how the first three are incompatible with Socialism. Indeed it seems to me that, for instance, the Socialist press ought to be more free than under capitalist imperialism, for under capitalism freedom of the press applies only to those who own presses.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
That sounds like a common-sense proposal to me. Has there been any effort to push for a similar public welfare system in heavily LDS states such as Utah?
I am officially gone from
McCain was a class act, some of the trolls in attendance on the other hand....
"There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
Google's algorithm is not so simple, apparently. Quotes do limit the search considerably, but clearly, leaving out the quotes does not mean you get all possible matches of the words.
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
I read one item in the Catholic digest about a mother who had an anacephalic baby, and decided to go through with the birth. She said that she held the child in her arms for 20 minutes, and loved her, and when she died was able to rejoice that the baby had 20 minutes of being loved.
Of course, that is not from a death-fearing perspective. That is from a Christian perspective.
Christ said, he who believes in me shall never see death.
If you are seeing death, then perhaps it is because you are not believing in Christ enough.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Money is also an alternative power structure that fundamentally subverts governance.
But money subverts towards evil. The church -- look at mother Theresa, if you will -- subverts towards compassion and goodness.
Which do you prefer?
Now, add to that, the following point: the way to eliminate subversion is to incorporate the subverting influence into the government. My brother suggests an additional "auctioned house", whereby seats are auctioned to the highest bidder, the winner getting to name the US citizen who will hold the seat for one year (replacements in case of death are immediately auctioned again), one for each day of the year. That house would have the power to block any legislation. He advocates this, intending to stop the subverting influence of money on the rest of the government, and also reduce the need for direct taxation.
However, by the same point, if you *want* the subversion of the church on the rest of the government, then *keep it out of the government*.
I don't know if he is correct, but I am inclined to think he is.
If so, he'd agree with the OP in its principles.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Just because a right is not explicitly granted doesn't mean it's not a right of the people. It has everything to do with the person who I was replying to.
Here's an article about a bill to legalize the reimportation of drugs.
Notice the side for cheaper imported/reimported drugs says it ends subsidies and the side against it says it will import other countries' price controls. Both sides are stating the same thing -- we subsidize the price controls of other countries. The only difference is one side wants the subsidies to continue, while the other wants it to end.
The problem is that if it ends that outlet for the violation of the laws of economics ends.
Not that I know of (and I live in Utah). Like I said, this type of system represents a large short-term investment, and politicians don't like to put those on the budget ;)
That's not the point, he said that:
Which is not true.
You're a big meanie.
I have no clue, I gave up on rationalizing with those people long ago ;)
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
Methinks you didn't read our constitution carefully enough.
How about Article 1, section 8:
The Congress shall have power
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States;
Maybe you should try reading yourself.
paintball
You realize Bush applied to Texas Law and got rejected and then went to Harvard Business School instead, right? No law degree doth that man possess.
I agree, third parties have a lot of big ideas but fall short on the actual work of getting things done. The best example being the work less party. Perhaps a fine idea, but hampered by a lack of work ethic. :-p
I added the word "nerds" to http://wordandlink.com/, you should add a word too.
Jeepers, posting that was a lot of work. Phew!
I added the word "nerds" to http://wordandlink.com/, you should add a word too.
Replacement, no.
That's not a citation. That's anecdotal evidence.
We tried a limited government. The basis was called the Articles of Confederation. Perhaps you've heard of how spectacularly it failed?
Size of government is not a binary function. It is a continuum. It's not "small govt=good, big govt=bad." It's more "too small govt=bad, too big govt=bad, stuff in the middle=varying degrees of good."
You're trying to argue that the Constitution was NOT founded on the basic principle that government should be limited? I find that cute.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
No. I'm pointing out that the Constitution was founded on the principle that a government too limited would fail, so it had to have at a minimum some sort of expansive powers. For example, see Article I and the enumerated powers, which are followed by the Necessary and Proper Clause, which expands Congress's authority beyond what is specifically delineated.
Recall that the Constitution was a direct response to another "constitution" that failed because it limited the government too much.
You, on the other hand, are trying to characterize government power as some sort of binary world where a government is either "limited" or "expansive." I'm merely pointing out that you'd be wrong to think that.
Well, whatever you may say about the powers granted to the government by the Constitution, it apparently wasn't enough for Obama. That's my basic point here...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.