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White House Cease & Desists to The Onion
raj2569 writes "You might have thought that the White House had enough on its plate late last month, what with its search for a new Supreme Court nominee, the continuing war in Iraq and the C.I.A. leak investigation. But it found time to add another item to its agenda - stopping The Onion (soul sucking, life sapping, irritating, obnoxious, but still free registration), the satirical newspaper, from using the presidential seal." The only joke here is that our tax dollars are being spent on this.
If they don't want it used, then the Onion is outta luck. Satire will only cover you so far.
why not the government?
Seriously, with the recent frenzy over "intellectual property" restrictions, why shouldn't the government get into the restraining free speech business, like everyone else?
The bigger joke is that Congress gave the IOC complete control over any linked ring motif whether or not it has any conection to the Olympics or not or is a symbol created before the modern Olympic movement.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
If Reverend Fred Phelps started using Slashdot's logo on godhatesfags.com, you'd do the same exact thing.
Move on. This is a non-story.
"The only joke here is that our tax dollars are being spent on this."
I do pity those whose tax dollars are being spent on this.
And bloody glad that as an Aussie it's not _my_ tax dollars.
And that kids is how I met your mother.
hahahahahahahah ha ha haha ha. YOUR tax dollars.
Not very insightful, I know, but I couldn't read TFA. I wonder if the Onion has anything about it...
The opinion above is fiction. Any similarity to real opinions, including facts and logic, is purely coincidental.
I mean... they could find somebody dull enough to believe the Onion was actually a real presidential announcement.
The point is, though, that the seal is used to indicate official documents, etc. Using it on the Onion does make it look official, to the uninitiated. I'd suggest they should use a modified version, like whitehouse.org does.
Citing the United States Code, Mr. Dixton wrote that the seal "is not to be used in connection with commercial ventures or products in any way that suggests presidential support or endorsement."
Well they're hardly using it to promote a commercial venture, and if you can find someone who reads one of these Onion pieces and believes it suggests presidential support, could you point them in my direction, as i've got this bridge i'd like to sell them.
Wouldn't this be covered under the parody rulings made based on the First amendment?
I thought The White House and the President...whoever this may be...is all public domain stuff. Granted, I didn't read the article in a rush to post this uninformed rambling.
But from what I remember, when the movie Contact used President Clintons image and voice they too were in the clear even when Clinton complained. They said hey, you're in the public domain pal.
Thought that the Presidential Seal was also in the public domain.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
Here
For the Onion to use the seal is not a job but is "satire". For the current administration to use it is a "joke".
Please mod me 1 or troll. It's where the truth is these days, even on Slashdot. Beware the power of moderators everywh
I gotta say, I give the White House (and more specifically the current administration) some credit on this. Sure, Clinton didn't give a shit when The Onion used the presidential seal, but that was just a sign of the contempt that budget balancing whore had for the office of President.
Now this administration may be able screw up the invasion of the wrong country, leak the names of CIA agents, mismanage hurricane disaster relief efforts, funnel billions to Haliburton, put scientific research back decades, and turn the country into a joke in general, but they'll be *damned* if they're going to let some satire magazine use the Presidential seal in an article with a headline such as "Bush: Vacation ruined by 'Stupid Dead Soldier'".
Bravo!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/24/business/24onion .html?ex=1287806400&en=b40eb239c3b34014&ei=5090&pa rtner=rssuserland&emc=rss
A community-oriented lyrics site
Actually, I think there's an existing law to cover this kind of thing. Most countries do have protection on symbols of their government, usually dating from before trademark protection became available.
I say we hold a contest for designing Onion's Next White House seal.. I say it shoudl picture Bush on a Jackass backwards as the seal..
Fred Grott(aka shareme) http://mobilebytes.wordpress.com
What, you mean the entire thing wasn't some kind of sick joke? Iraq? Katrina? All the little stuff?
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
You might have thought that the White House had enough on its plate late last month, what with its search for a new Supreme Court nominee, the continuing war in Iraq and the C.I.A. leak investigation. But it found time to add another item to its agenda - stopping The Onion, the satirical newspaper, from using the presidential seal.
The newspaper regularly produces a parody of President Bush's weekly radio address on its Web site (www.theonion.com/content/node/40121), where it has a picture of President Bush and the official insignia.
"It has come to my attention that The Onion is using the presidential seal on its Web site," Grant M. Dixton, associate counsel to the president, wrote to The Onion on Sept. 28. (At the time, Mr. Dixton's office was also helping Mr. Bush find a Supreme Court nominee; days later his boss, Harriet E. Miers, was nominated.)
Citing the United States Code, Mr. Dixton wrote that the seal "is not to be used in connection with commercial ventures or products in any way that suggests presidential support or endorsement." Exceptions may be made, he noted, but The Onion had never applied for such an exception.
The Onion was amused. "I'm surprised the president deems it wise to spend taxpayer money for his lawyer to write letters to The Onion," Scott Dikkers, editor in chief, wrote to Mr. Dixton. He suggested the money be used instead for tax breaks for satirists.
More formally, The Onion's lawyers responded that the paper's readers - it prints about 500,000 copies weekly, and three million people read it online - are well aware that The Onion is a joke.
"It is inconceivable that anyone would think that, by using the seal, The Onion intends to 'convey... sponsorship or approval' by the president," wrote Rochelle H. Klaskin, the paper's lawyer, who went on to note that a headline in the current issue made the point: "Bush to Appoint Someone to Be in Charge of Country."
Moreover, she wrote, The Onion and its Web site are free, so the seal is not being used for commercial purposes. That said, The Onion asked that its letter be considered a formal application to use the seal.
No answer yet. But Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said that "you can't pick and choose where you want to enforce the rules surrounding the use of official government insignia, whether it's for humor or fraud."
O.K. But just between us, Mr. Duffy, how did they find out about it?
"Despite the seriousness of the Bush White House, more than one Bush staffer reads The Onion and enjoys it thoroughly," he said. "We do have a sense of humor, believe it or not."
KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
From the NPR report this morning, it seems to revolve around use of the seal of the president for commercial purposes. Pretty cut and dried. Everyone else from IBM to the Red Cross protects their identification. The question is: Is the Onion the only high profile entity to use the symbol? I don't know. Does Saturday Night Live use the exact symbol? Or do they change it slightly? Seems the Onion could do the same. Everybody goes away happy.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Well, we are already the most litigious nation on earth, might as well be the most litigious government too ...
-GenTimJS
Hmm, the parent post is modded a troll, at least at the time of this comments creation. Obviously the mods still do not recognize satire, even when the article is about satire. Maybe if the mods read The Onion they may "get it", but then again, maybe not.
The seal is the property of the people of the United States of America. It's not copyrightable, it's not trademarked, and satire is protected speech under the constitution. I don't see how in the world there's even the suggestion that there's legality behind silencing the Onion. Okay, not really silencing.
The Onion should be able to get around this by the smallest of photoshops to make the seal different. And if it's done in a parodic manner (like everything over there), then there's just nothing that can be done.
As someone else posted already, your tax dollars at work! (not that it matters, this'll be a drop in the bucket compared to everything else)
Does this mean I can use the Slashdot logo any way that I see fit and it's ok with the taco? My guess is that it would not be ok with his overlords.
Think of it in those terms, and one has no choice but to agree (unless one subscribes to the idea of "IP" being bad-mmkay). The presidential seal is like a trademark; it cannot be used without approval. To allow use in unofficial printed/published matter (a la The Onion) dilutes its efficacy. Therefore this letter, to which The Onion properly responded by requesting formal permission to use said seal.
The great point, which the NYT dutifully points out, is that someone in Washington with access to powerful ears reads The Onion. Whether or not this individual has a sense of humour is another story entirely.
-theGreater.
Interesting, informative, underrated, inciteful...
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
The whole thing is a joke. Just like Bush's Presidency.
Unlike The Onion, the Bush Presidency is a bad joke.
Something is sad, but I think it's around your comments assigning blame to the DMCA. Like it or hate it the Onion is potentially in violation of the law.
TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 33 713
(a) Whoever knowingly displays any printed or other likeness of the great seal of the United States, or of the seals of the President or the Vice President of the United States, or the seal of the United States Senate, or the seal of the United States House of Representatives, or the seal of the United States Congress, or any facsimile thereof, in, or in connection with, any advertisement, poster, circular, book, pamphlet, or other publication, public meeting, play, motion picture, telecast, or other production, or on any building, monument, or stationery, for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(b) Whoever, except as authorized under regulations promulgated by the President and published in the Federal Register, knowingly manufactures, reproduces, sells, or purchases for resale, either separately or appended to any article manufactured or sold, any likeness of the seals of the President or Vice President, or any substantial part thereof, except for manufacture or sale of the article for the official use of the Government of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(c) Whoever, except as directed by the United States Senate, or the Secretary of the Senate on its behalf, knowingly uses, manufactures, reproduces, sells or purchases for resale, either separately or appended to any article manufactured or sold, any likeness of the seal of the United States Senate, or any substantial part thereof, except for manufacture or sale of the article for the official use of the Government of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(d) Whoever, except as directed by the United States House of Representatives, or the Clerk of the House of Representatives on its behalf, knowingly uses, manufactures, reproduces, sells or purchases for resale, either separately or appended to any article manufactured or sold, any likeness of the seal of the United States House of Representatives, or any substantial part thereof, except for manufacture or sale of the article for the official use of the Government of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(e) Whoever, except as directed by the United States Congress, or the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House of Representatives, acting jointly on its behalf, knowingly uses, manufactures, reproduces, sells or purchases for resale, either separately or appended to any article manufactured or sold, any likeness of the seal of the United States Congress, or any substantial part thereof, except for manufacture or sale of the article for the official use of the Government of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(f) A violation of the provisions of this section may be enjoined at the suit of the Attorney General,
(1) in the case of the great seal of the United States and the seals of the President and Vice President, upon complaint by any authorized representative of any department or agency of the United States;
(2) in the case of the seal of the United States Senate, upon complaint by the Secretary of the Senate;
(3) in the case of the seal of the United States House of Representatives, upon complaint by the Clerk of the House of Representatives; and
(4) in the case of the seal of the United States Congress, upon complaint by the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House of Representatives, acting jointly.
I heard this on NPR this morning on the way to work. The reason why the White House office even knows about it is because their own staff reads The Onion because at least they have a sense of humor.
On another note, isn't this protected under parody? If not, could they take the logo and add a triangle around it and then say it's protected under parody?
Best i've heard all day without a doubt.
Kudos to you, good sir.
Why don't we just take up a collection and buy FARK.com?
/. eventually, anyway...
All their story are belong to
The Onion crosses political borders, and while it's Madison, WI roots may suggest a liberal sensibility, I can't believe that this is the smartest move (politically) that the White House could be doing.
Regardless of the legal issue - as I am not a lawyer and cannot claim to speak to the limits of Satire and protected speech - many people who read the Onion are so called "Independents." Now, in this day and age, when the country is looking polarized, it can only further reinforce those who may only drift to the Democratic side into becoming much stronger Partisans.
With the 2006 midterms coming up, and considering that it's those with strong partisan feelings who vote in midterm elections, this is really a part of a larger trend that may drive people away from the Republican party.
...wait, I'm a Democrat. Keep suing Bush! Keep suing!
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
Apparently you haven't read The Onion for a few years...
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
The only joke here is that some people actually think the Onion is funny.
The first thing I get when you go to the Onion's site is a full-screen ad. So, there is money being made. Just because it's free doesn't mean it's not commercial.
1) To the original poster - are you incapable of writing your own summary? Nice cut
and paste
2) The Onion may be free, but it *is* commericial - it has a lead in ad as well
as ads on its pages.
3) The government does this all the time.. they are just glacially slow in doing anything about it.
Like a red semi-transparent banner across the seal, with the following words;
The Whitehouse thinks you're too stupid to realize this image is a satirical fake.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
You actually bought into the notion of IP.
Let me help you.
If you're writing satire, you can use this kind of stuff. And particularly political satire is given wide latitude. So if I were the Onion, I would relish a court fight here. It would give them even more notority, and they would win.
This proves to me that the White House is actually manned by monkeys. No the smart ones, either.
Please explain, then, why there is a flashy bit of advertising at the top of the Onion article...
Our country is better than yours!
"Despite the seriousness of the Bush White House, more than one Bush staffer reads The Onion and enjoys it thoroughly," he said. "We do have a sense of humor, believe it or not."
He went on to state that the White House staffer that found it is actually a closet libertarian, doesn't really like Bush, and kept shaking his head when his supervisor insisted they "look more into this satan-worshipping-pinko-commie-hippie-website".
Now we know why Bono wanted to meet with the President last week.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
The Presidential seal belongs to the citizens of the USA: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I say, give the damned seal his fish ration and be done with it.
Money for nothing, pix for free
I think instead of this, there should be some effort put into finding a replacement for the practical side of seals. There was a day when a seal meant it was the word of a high official (or rich enough guy to have a seal made); but today it just means someone put some effort into forging it.
;).
Of course, if you read something on the onion and think it's true you deserve what you get
It's nice to know our presidential cabinet believes us to be as dumb as someone from the bayou!
Why is this one treated diffrent?
Get a free ipod.
When dealing with a satirical website, you want to give them ammunition and a reason to use it.
Alert your friends: The Onion might actually start getting funny again.
Thanks for voting for President Bush! That guy rocks! Honesty and integrity all in one person!
It's hard to believe.
The Onion savages that corporation-killing George W. Bush every chance they get. Nobody who reads the Onion could possibly think the that the President supports them...would you support a publication that repeatedly pointed out you myriad of flaws, poor reasoning and simple idiocy?
Blar.
There's something to be said for reserving one's stamp of authenticity, whether it be a signature or not, for things that are actually from one. It seems unnecessary and precisely akin to protecting one's signature from appearing on material that pokes fun at oneself -- there's nothing funny about the seal itself, and it would not change the humour to replace that seal with a mock seal. Parody should be seen to be a nearly blank check when it comes to making fun of the attributes of someone or something, and in my opinion, traditional intellectual property law totally sucks, but protecting one's sigil/signature is a reasonable thing to do.
Obviously, this is not forgery with an intent to fool, but like posting unaltered dollar bill photographs on a website, it's at least uncool and asking for trouble.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Is it just me, or did that article read like something printed by... I don't know, The Onion?
The Onion isn't using it "any way they see fit." They're using it for satire, a uniquely protected form of speech.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,53048,00.html
Sometimes I doubt your committment to SparkleMotion!
Seals should be kept in their natural habitat,
the president should immiately release his seal into the wild!
What happened to the presidential dog.. didn't he have one of those?
- I choked on the red pill and now I'm stuck in limbo
They have to be restrictive like that, because if they let one person use their symbol, you will have people advetising with the symbol and degrading the country as a whole. The symbol is still a representation of the presidency like insignias are of individual people. Reguardless of how many feel that Bush didn't work out, there is still the majority of people that voted him into office (twice if I might add). Also, it isn't like the government is the MPAA, they were just telling them to take it down.
The problem is that many people may confuse some of the stupid remarks made by The Onion with the stupid remarks made by President Bush and therefore may become confused...after all, we don't want the world associating the official US Government Seal with misinformation and stupidity, do we?
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Trademark should cover it. The Onion is using the presidential seal to mark their own documents, not to refer to the president's. That's a trademark infraction.
Trademarks can be lost if not defended. The US government may well be legally obligated to pursuse this case...
'Sensible' is a curse word.
If they don't protect the copyright it could become null. I'm not exaclty sure on how this works, but if you don't protect your copyright it's hard to prove in a court if some one uses it for other purposes. For example if another company used it and sent it's proceeds to N. Korea.
Make the seal red like the states he represents.
So is the camoflage pattern... does that mean you can put on some BDU's grab a toy rifle and start stopping people on the street? How about painting your crown vic black and white, adding some lights and pulling people over? No, neither of these work, they are crimes.
suck.dom did a hilarious parody of slashdot using /.'s logo, and not only did /. not mind, they posted news of it her.
So go suck an egg, Adolph.
Because the government belongs to . . . (drumroll please) . . . the citizens of the United States!
I read the NYT article, and realized that some people probably don't see that article as biased.
why not the government?
Because the government is supposed to work for the public, so anything they produce should be public domain.
IIRC, in commonwealth countries you cannot use the word "Royal" in your company name unless your company has actually had royal patronage. The Onion would do well to respond by promptly exchanging the eagle for a suitably comedic turkey and declare no contest.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Why, I am suprised the Onion didn't change the President to 'Resident' and the Bald Eagle to a Turkey (The Second Runner up for National Bird, no joke!)
The Onion sets a new standard in quality Journalism,
factual and error free!
I love the bias that every story is filtered through before it comes out on any news source (e.g. slashdot)
this is a perfectly legitimate thing to complain about, and it's not like persuing this is taking away money from the war, or from the CIA case, or from anything else. frankly, i think it's bullshit to tell it that way. perhaps that's just me though.
Not sure where they're coming from with this. The use of the seal is covered in Tile 4, Chap 2, sec 42 of the US Code which reads,
The Secretary of State shall have the custody and charge of such seal. Except as provided by section 2902 (a) of title 5, the seal shall not be affixed to any instrument without the special warrant of the President therefor.
The Onion is obvioulsy a parady which is surely covered by the First Amendment. This is basically a sacred-symbol-protection law which didn't work for flag burning and probably won't for the seal. Be interesting to hear what the courts have to say.
It's not like it's an endangered species.
Dubya obviously had mod points.
No France
Look who we have now - what's the issue?! I daresay the Onion is much more forthright than our current administration!
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
Because the government is supposed to work for the public, so anything they produce should be public domain.
Um, no. Absolutely not. I don't think that, for example, a random corporation should go around co-opting the Presidential seal--which they could do if it were in the public domain. However, the Onion is doing satire, and their use of the seal is perfectly valid.
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
O.K. But just between us, Mr. Duffy, how did they find out about it?
"Despite the seriousness of the Bush White House, more than one Bush staffer reads The Onion and enjoys it thoroughly," he said. "We do have a sense of humor, believe it or not."
Congratulations, you've just done a better job of reporting than the NY Times.
Once, in the distant past, that was a big accomplishment. Now the NY Times is more interested in harming the Bush administration than it is in reporting the news.
You did a better job than the first 80 or so Slashdot commentors too. That's a bigger accomplishment. Kudos.
First of all, this is a freedom of speech issue. There is definately a little nitch carved out for satirical and comedic speech in the first amendment. It is clear that the Onion is satirical. Ok, they have a good movie section, but the whole paper is clearly a joke. For example, when Bill O'Reilley sued Al Franken for libeling him for Franken's book, Lying Liars, the whole case was tossed because, while the statements would have been libelous in other circumstances, it was clearly a joke mocking a public figure, which is ok. I can't see how this would be any different.
Seconly, if you read the law, posted below, especially the bolded portion, you will notice that in order for the Onion to be guilty, they would have had to have used the seal "for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States". I don't think anyone thinks that they were using the seal to do this.
This is a perfect example of government overreaching. It is also an example of a frivolous lawsuit.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 33 > 713
713. Use of likenesses of the great seal of the United States, the seals of the President and Vice President, the seal of the United States Senate, the seal of the United States House of Representatives, and the seal of the United States Congress
(a) Whoever knowingly displays any printed or other likeness of the great seal of the United States, or of the seals of the President or the Vice President of the United States, or the seal of the United States Senate, or the seal of the United States House of Representatives, or the seal of the United States Congress, or any facsimile thereof, in, or in connection with, any advertisement, poster, circular, book, pamphlet, or other publication, public meeting, play, motion picture, telecast, or other production, or on any building, monument, or stationery, for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
I can't believe some of the comments here. It looks like no one is educated enough to realize using the seal in the way they are is in violation of the law. I don't know why they even made a big deal of it. It doesn't matter how corrupt anyone thinks the government is, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Just modify the seal so that its not the same and get on with life.
I'm not anti-European, by the way.
1) We STILL pay less for gasoline than everyone in the EU does.
2) If you are a bad guy and commit a crime in the US, you may get a long time in jail, not one of these wimpy sentences certains boot-shaped EU members whose country name starts with "I" like to give out. You may even get the death penalty, but to many people, that's not "better".
3) A US passport gets you into some countries without a visa where EU members still need visas. Not many places, but a few.
4) We have better Mexican restaurants EVERYWHERE than any place in Europe!
5) You know who our president is. Tony Blair is probably the only guy in any government in the EU that half of America could name.
6) We pay less taxes than EU citizens.
Europe has its advantages though, just different ones.
The White House is obviously trying to defend America from the scourge of Comedy Terrorists around the world. What better place to do this than at home?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
What's new about this? This law has been on the books for years:
/ parts/i/chapters/33/sections/section_713.html
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18
I'm new to this whole "modding" thing, but I have some points. However, I can't seem to find -1: Arithmetically Challenged.
FTFA:
"Despite the seriousness of the Bush White House, more than one Bush staffer reads The Onion and enjoys it thoroughly," he said. "We do have a sense of humor, believe it or not."
sense of humor? possibly, but a perhaps a stunning lack of a sense of irony.
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
Dear mi fellow Mericans.
Recently, mi staff have informed me about a grave misuse of a seal. Apparently, this website, The Onion, is misusing the Presidential Seal of the United States of Merica. Now, I have not seen this seal - and I hope it's doing well, with all those hurricanes in Florida and whatnot, but to misuse a seal? Now that's nnanimal cruelty.
Now, I have talked to all my friends at Hallyburton about this, and we agree. Seals should be clubbed as babies to be used as coats. If the Seals are not going to be used as coats, they should be allowed to live out their natural lives at Seaworld and the like. You know, preforming tricks for the kids. Ya gotta member the children, they're our most precious resource. But I digress.
This website, The Onion, is misusing the Presidential Seal and it's got to stop. Our staff has sent a letter to The Onion, and they just made fun of us. How terrble is that? Even worse, some people have suggested that the seal be changed at The Onion. That's not good. How would you like it if we changed you?
Anyways, seals are great creatures. Make good coats, preform tricks for kids. Kids important. Onion misusing seals. Onion's bad, make kids cry. Now go out there and tell those bad liberals at The Onion to stop misusing seals and making kids cry.
Good night, and God Bless you.
Yer President
I realize that this is a joke to a degree but 'come on!' Isn't the above comment equivalent to a speeding motorist getting pulled over and then complaining that the cop should be spending his time stopping murders rather than pester speeding drivers.
The truth is there is value in a law that protects the seal of the president: protection above and beyond standard copyright. Just like how there is value in a law against speeding. Pointing out the fact that there are even more important laws out there to enforce does not negate the value of these laws and it certainly isn't a mark on innocence.
Because, by law the Federal Governement can not hold copyrights. I'm pretty sure they can't get a trademark or patent either. Restrictions on the use of the Presidential seal are pretty much limited to areas of interstate commerce. Anything else would be unconstitutional. And, of course, a C&D letter has no force what so ever. It's really just a way of intimidating someone without actually taking them to court.
I'll bet you're more than qualified to be on the Supreme Court according to our own President Bush. In fact, with your solid background in legal thinkin' you could be an Uber-Lawyer, and then maybe Carl Rove could use you.
"The US government may well be legally obligated to pursuse this case..."
Well, mister fancy big-city, supreme court-bound lawyer, maybe you could save yourself an awful lot of time by looking up the registered trademark for the presidentential seal. Take a snack while you look, you might be at it a little while.
When you watch shows like the "The West Wing", movies like "Air Force One", none of them display the seal verbatim. They all do some minor tweaking to alter how the seal slightly so that it is not an exact replica of the seal.
The changes will usually be very minor, like changing the direction the eagle is facing, swapping the arrows and olive branches, or something equivalently minor. There is no reason that the Onion could not do the same thing.
You have to remember, lots of people read the Onion - some not in the US, who might not "get" that it is a joke. I remember awhile back that some foreign nation thought that an article in the Onion about remodeling the capital was real. So, someone on the web in a non-English speaking (likely third world) country could conceivably think that a radio address/article featuring the official US seal that someone sent them a link to was the real deal. And hilarity would ensure.
Don't post again until you check your facts or at the very least prefix "I think" to your sentences.
``It's political satire, exactly the sort of thing that freedom of speech is all about.''
Which begs the question: is The Onion in a free speech zone?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
There is a profound and important distinction in the use of the presidential seal (which by the way belongs to all Americans - yes, even us liberals) for the purpose of political satire, which is exactly the kind of speech that the founding fathers sought to protect in the first amendment versus its use in a purely commercial communication. I agree that using the presidential seal in commercial communications is not in the country's best interest and should be severly curtailed or disallowed entirely. On the other hand using it satirically as the Onion has done is absolutely in the country's best interest, because the ability to criticize our leaders is one of the many things that make us free.
I might add, Bush was voted into office once by a majority of eligible voters. The first time he was voted in by 5 of 9 elderly folks in robes. The second time around the key words are "eligible voters", being that his buddy Karl and the rest of the quacks did everything they could to reduce the number of eligible voters by fraud, intimidation, and massive communal inconvenience.
The majority of the people (as opposed to eligible voters) in this country haven't voted anyone into office in a long time.
Here's the operative line:
No reasonable person could conclude that an article in the Onion was "for the purpose of conveying... a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States". The Onion has NOT violated the law.
Sean
after all, we don't want the world associating the official US Government Seal with misinformation and stupidity, do we?
Good point. Let's take the seal out of whitehouse.gov ASAP!
time and time again, throughout history, those who seek to censor and suppress only unwittingly provide whatever they are trying to suppress/ censor with free advertising and free pr
the point being, if you deem someone/ something worthy of suppression, then you unwittingly signal to others that you believe whatever/ whoever it is to have some power over you. if whatever you are trying to suppress has no real power, you would ignore it. but you are not ignoring it, now are you? therefore, in the eyes of any neutral observer, there is instant curiosity and attraction to whatever you are trying to suppress
again: if you find something to be threatening to you, shut up about it already. making noise about it only makes the world know that you feel threatened by it, that it touches a soft part of you, that it has power over you. you have used your power to lend some bit of cultural detritus that would otherwise be quickly forgotten instant fame and lasting historical meaning, and worst of all, this historical meaning will be linked to YOUR name for all time as well!
please, learn the lessons of history repeated time and time and time again: IGNORE the art/ satire/ opinion piece/ etc that you do not like. for saying ANYTHING WHATSOEVER about some flotsam and jetsam of pop culture whatsoever is your mistake. normally, it would quickly fade from common memory and view. but now, it will live forever, linked to your name, for all history... probably in some wikipedia article
remember mayor giuliani and his elephant dung mary the virgin?
WHY do people continually forget this simple lesson of history about politics and satire?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
So does the capital building.. but try to go in and tell them you want to use YOUR congressional gym, pool, blowing ally, bank, or dining hall.
Yeah but read sect a) again, my emphasis:
...for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof,
The Onion is a parody. They're not seriously conveying the impression of sponsorship or approval. There was a similar law about buring the sacred flag but that was struck down as unconstitutional. I would guess the courts would say people have a right to make fun of the government and the seal.
I could be wrong.
"are NOT the property of the people of the USA they are the property of the government of the USA and there is a major difference between thoses two"
I've never heard that before. Can you point to a link that explains the difference? It sounds interesting.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
please enumerate the ways in which the USA is better. I'm serious.
1. We can fly men into Space. Europe has NEVER done so.
2. We fly the only super-booster left in existance.
3. We can carry guns, bows, knives, and other cool weapons.
4. We don't have cameras that decide when you're speeding and auto-ticket you. (At least not in any of the states I've been in.)
5. We've got cool nuclear-powered Super Carriers that can actually project power around the world.
6. Our military is larger than all your militaries combined.
7. We don't have to pay VAT.
8. We pay less for gas. (Though that seems to be changing.)
9. We have plenty of open space. You can live in the city, or you can move out to the country and get hundreds of acres of land for a highly affordable price.
10. Our national parks are impressive in size, quality, and number.
11. We produce enough food to feed 25% of the world.
12. Americans are generally quite wealthy, and are able to afford luxuries like personal watercraft, planes, or fancy sports cars.
13. We have an incredible amount of cultural diversity. From our restaurants to our entertainment, you find nothing but massive variety to suit any taste.
14. The amount of space means that Americans can easily own a house.
15. Enjoyable personal projects to improve a house, build a structure/vehicle/new gizmo are the norm, not the exception. (Again, because of the amount of personal space.)
I could go on, but you probably get the idea. This isn't intended as a knock against Europe, but rather a short list of things Americans love about living here. Hey, you asked.
Actually, no, that's not the case:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18
Now, don't get me wrong; I don't get this law AT ALL. I think it's kinda goofy. Then again, there are goofy laws all over the world.
Anyway, satire doesn't overrule everything; if it did then people would use that as an excuse for dang near everything they do.
Some people do hide behind satire as a way of expressing their political opinions. Frankly, I think that's pretty cowardly, because it's not satire. It's just plain old libel, hiding behind a satire label. Go check out the spine of various "political" books, and you'll see what I mean.
To be clear, I *DO NOT* think The Onion falls into this category. They're in it for the humor of the situation, no matter who or what they're writing about.
What are we going to do if Zombies attack?
- Concerned in Pittsburgh
> So, for-pay encyclopedias can't include it in an article?
Does the article use the seal to misrepresent the author's identity, or for reference.
This seems pretty clear to me. The idea here is that when we (as in "the people") see the presidential seal, we can trust that the marked material comes from the whitehouse. Would it damage the satire to use an altered seal? Is there any harm infringed upon free speech by requiring this?
Seeing as the Presidential Seal is already used to stamp satirical looking speeches and documents...
Tu stultes es
This is a really, really easy one. The government has no copyrights, trademarks, patents, or anything else that could be considered intellectual property. Everything they have is public domain or licensed from a private entity.
Why can't my tax dollars go to good use like perhaps removing the bums that form a human staircase in my commuter rail station? Nevermind. That makes too much sense.
When people went looking for pictures from the Mars Pathfinder project, many instinctively to nasa.com instead of nasa.gov
At the time, nasa.com was a porn site, so visitors got quite an eyeful. The real NASA invoked some government edict from the 1960s that stated the acronymn NASA was reserved for use by their agency, and were able to unseat them. Yet when I go to nasa.com today, I find some sort of private detective agency, I am not sure what happened in the meantime...
My rights don't need management.
The White house closes lemonade stand to send a message to other kids "no selling without a merchants license"
If you read the first amendment fast enough you can make it mean anything you want, as years of Slashdot posts have clearly shown.
The second time around the key words are "eligible voters", being that his buddy Karl and the rest of the quacks did everything they could to reduce the number of eligible voters by fraud, intimidation, and massive communal inconvenience.
Care to cite evidence of this? and no some idiot's blog doesn't count
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
When The Onion's lawyer wrote "...Moreover, she wrote, The Onion and its Web site are free, so the seal is not being used for commercial purposes. That said, The Onion asked that its letter be considered a formal application to use the seal..." This is a bold faced lie! While the readers may not have to pay for the privilege of reading this crap, The Onion receives money from advertising. Just try to go read an article without being forced to read an ad every now and then... Stop abusing the seals or the polar bears will go hungry!!!
This whole debate is B.S.
- The Onion is a commercial entity. Just because it doesn't cost you anything to view the site, it doesn't mean they aren't making money (hint: ads).
- The Onion is not parodying the POTUS Seal. They are using copying the same Seal and using it in an article (which is now generating them a lot more money because of this stupid debate). The Seal is supposed to denote things OFFICIALLY endorsed by POTUS.
- If they change the Seal to PARODY (not COPY it), no one would care.
- For all of you saying this is a waste of tax-payer money, I ask you this: When should they start caring? How many people can misuse the Seal before they say something? It may be stupid, but they have to do something, its the law (according to them at least).
- This is not a case of 'Bush is teh suck! Halliburton$$!#!#'. The White House has an obligation to make sure that the Seal is only used by things officially endorsed by POTUS.
It looks like the Onion is just mirroring White House content (I didn't actually listen to the audio streams though). Assuming they are just mirroring the audio, this begs the question of whether or not more "serious" news sites are allowed to use the seal on their pages that mirror the content. If they are, then the Onion is being singled out and that's plainly unfair. The placement of GWB's radio show on the Onion is, in and of itself, a criticism of the administration since such placement implies that the President's addresses belong on a humor site. Now, if the Onion is being singled out in their use of the seal then this is chilling indeed: they are being singled out for criticizing the administration. However, if the White House has a policy of not allowing news sites to use the seal directly on their sites, and they enforce that policy uniformly, then it's rather benign in my opinion since such use might imply endorsement and/or affiliation with the White House. It's fairly standard for any organization, government or otherwise, not to allow use of their trademark without endorsement or affiliation.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Sadly, there are lot of people within the USA who think articles in the Onion are real.
I heard Carol Kolb, the Onion's head writer, comment on NPR that their office gets a LOT of snail mail from church groups in rural Texas. Not as a reaction to the Onion's offensiveness, mind you: The Texans sincerely believe the content.
Case in point, one of my favorite headlines: "Chinese Woman Has Septuplets: Has One Week to Choose". You get the idea, right? Some poor fictitious mom in China has to choose one child due to government policy, while the rest are thrown over a cliff. Really vicious and mean-spirited (so of course I adored it).
After that headline hit the newsstands and the Net, the Onion was beseiged by heartfelt prayers for the poor woman via the U.S. Postal Service. And pleas for contacts to find out what good Christians could do to help. No, I am not making this shit up.
And it keeps happening. Again and again.
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
This is insightful?
Lotta political hacks posting and moderating. How bout that.
Try saying something original and useful in the slightest, not the same sort of tripe we've heard for the past 5 years.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Also, the Bush Administration isn't suing The Onion. The U.S. Government simply presented them with a Cease and Desist notice for illegally using the seal of the office of the President.
Try to brush up on your facts next time.
If someone is stupid enough to be fooled by "Study Reveals Pittsburgh Unprepared For Full-Scale Zombie Attack" or "Bush Disappointed To Learn Chinese Foreign Minister Doesn't Know Karate" then something tells me a slight modification to the presidential seal isnt going to make any difference.
I don't see anything in there that they're clearly violating... Then again, IANAL, so it doesn't really matter what I think. I hope this turns out in their favor.
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
NEWS FLASH: Onion countersues White House for "stealing all the good jokes". Joe Jones, an Onion spokesman, was quoted as saying "They're running us into the ground. How can we make jokes about the White House, when they haven't said something non-humorous in weeks? Harriet Miers as "qualified"? They stole our front page story!!"
Ever since /. broke the mod system by not awarding karma for a +1, Funny, but still removing one for a -1, Overrated, many and varied people mark comedy (and hey, I thought it was still funny, even if you're right that it's been done before) with other marks.
So no, it isn't particularly insightful, but at least this way the poor guy hasn't lost out because someone voted him 'Flamebait' for something so blatently tongue-in-cheek.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
So the Presidential Seal walks into a club...
hmmm, I guess the street bums are lesser life forms and not citizens just like yourself who endure a lower standard of living?
I guess The Onion should have modified the seal some before using it.
:^/
You know how seriously people take letter seals these days
(_!_) - Seal of Saskboy on letter to White House
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Oooh, you're so damn creative. Must hurt holding all those bright ideas in your head till you get a chance like this to let them out, huh?
Whether you want to believe it or not, the partisan populations in this country are split fairly 50/50. Now, mind you, that's the partisan portion of the country. A large percentage frankly doesn't feel any particular way towards either party.
Now, in a midterm election (these work different than Presidential ones statistically) really the only people who vote in them are partisans - people who feel strongly towards one party or another. To win a midterm, what one must do is reinforce those who sit on the edge of their party - those who might usually vote with them but feel no affiliation.
Actions such as this by the Bush Administration (which then reflects on the Republican party) won't sway any Republicans over the the Democratic party, but what it could do is take Joe Moderate-Democrat and make him feel impassioned enough to vote.
When less than 50% of the people show up to vote in a midterm, it only takes 26% of the people to win.
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Um, if you need to tell people that you have a sense of humor, then you don't have one.
Here is the standalone version of the site Weekly Radio Address. Not once during the Clinton administration did they send a cease and desist letter to the parodies aired on the Rush Limbaugh show. Looks like The Onion isn't the only thing that's thin skinned.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Wow, that's stupid.
And yeah, the Onion should have no problem defending this as their publication is a work of parody, much like all those Saturday Night Live sketches with someone standing behind a podium with the presidential seal on it.
Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but I think you misspelled "corporations" there. :-)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
More insidious is the site http://www.weeklyradioaddress.com./ This site (which seems to provide the content to the Onion) steals the layout of the official site (http://www.whitehouse.gov/radio), without providing anything to tell us that it's fake.
Something like this could quite possibly cause confusion to the unaware. So I think that it is within the rights of the White House to try and prevent that confusion.
1) To the original poster - are you incapable of writing your own summary? Nice cut
and paste
2) The Onion may be free, but it *is* commericial[sic] - it has a lead in ad as well
as ads on its pages.
3) The government does this all the time.. they are just glacially slow in doing anything about it.
4) The government has a fanatical devotion to the pope.
Um, can we come back in again?
From TFA:
Moreover, she wrote, The Onion and its Web site are free, so the seal is not being used for commercial purposes.
The Onion has advertisements on the site, and is apparently a profit-making concern. Use of the Seal is specifically to enhance the content, so IMHO that makes it a commercial use.
But I still think this is "fair use" [yes, I know this is an abomination of the phrase] of the Seal. There's nothing wrong with using parody to make a profit.
Tag lost or not installed.
why shouldn't the government get into the restraining free speech business, like everyone else?
This doesn't have anything to do with free speech. Free speach is about coming up with something on your own and speaking it. Not copying someone elses logo and making money on your website (satirically or not).
It actually makes a great deal of sense, and such a law should definitely be on the books for the same reason that impersonating a police officer should be, and is, a crime. The whole purpose of a seal is that it signifies the approval of the party who owns the seal. Now imagine if anyone anywhere were allowed to use the seal. It would greatly diminsh the trust you could have in the seal. (Insert obligatory joke about wisdom of trusting the government.)
Not that it should apply to how the Onion uses it, though.
This doesn't have anything to do with free speech.
You're not paying attention.
Go to the back of the class.
Sorry, but I did not know that "the administration" was elected as governor of the state of Louisianna and the mayor of New Orleans. Oh wait, no... they weren't. It seems odd how they "mismanaged" this relief effort but did just fine and dandy during the most recent Wilma that hit Florida.
Sorry bub, but I happen to live in New Orleans. The governor and mayor did everything possible with the resources at their disposal, including the first ever truly successful contraflow evacuation of such a large American city. Afterward, with their resources scattered and the city under water, they begged the federal government for help. While the storm was still raging governor Blanco was on the phone with FEMA telling them what we would need -- helicopters, water, food, and tents, in more or less that order. Contrary to what you may have read in some quarters all of the paperwork was filled out properly and submitted ahead of time. The state of emergency was declared.
The Katrina disaster was much too large for the locals to handle it themselves; things like this are why we have a Federal government at all.
So what did the Feds do? Day 1: Nothing. Day 2: Nothing. Day 3: Nothing. Oh wait, not quite nothing. Blanco complained that they were very interested in "negotiating an organizational chart," e.g. figuring out who would be in charge. And by Tuesday they did get around to trying to strong-arm her into abdicating her position as our elected leader and federalizing the state resources that remained viable.
Oh, and they did manage to turn back anyone who "self-responded" like the convoy of rescuers with boats who assembled from the Lafayette area the day after the storm. They managed to turn back the trucks of water offered by Wal-Mart. Yeah, the Feds weren't entirely idle in those first few days; they managed to fucking TURN AWAY what little aid our local people managed to assemble when the government failed them. They managed to order doctors at the airport NOT to save lives because they hadn't been "federalized."
And what turned FEMA from the heroes of hurricane Charley to the rat fuckers who probably killed hundreds of my neighbors as they waited in their attics? After 9/11 they were wrapped into the department of Homeland Security and their focus shifted from disaster relief (first priority: save lives) to anti-terrorism police (first priority: establish control of the situation).
You can't blame that on Clinton or the Democrats. That reorganization was this Republican Administration's idea, passed by this Republican congress. And while the newly cop-oriented FEMA was polishing their guns and turning away help that didn't arrive with the right paperwork, my neighbors died. For that reason alone they all deserve to be tossed out of office and charged with malfeasance.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
"...for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, shall be fined under this title..."
So where is this not the case? I don't see anyone excepting a single reporter in China a few years back taking The Onion seriously... And the commercial clauses would have to show that The Onion purposely used the seal to gain profit. Not a lawyer, but I think that'd be hard to prove in most cases of use of the presidential (etc.) seals. I think they'd have a better case against book publishers and movie makers who seem to use the seal often on political thrillers because the medium the seals are conveyed on are specifically on items that are not free access. You have to buy your ticket, book, whatever.
I get your point, but unless The Onion can't defend itself in court somehow I don't see this lawsuit going very far. Especially with the negative repercussions in an already poor public opinion atmosphere at the White House. It's not enough of a smoke-screen issue to distract the public from the current scandals there, so this is really a puzzling move. Carl Rove must be slipping. :D
"is not to be used in connection with commercial ventures or products in any way that suggests presidential support or endorsement"
This could be interpreted as:
a) "is not to be used in connection with commercial ventures COMMA, or products in any way that suggests..."
or b) "is not to be used in connection with COMMA, commercial ventures or products COMMA, in anyway that suggest presidential support or endorsement".
If the law is interpreted as a), The Onion is guilty. If it's interpreted as b), it's innocent.
IMHO, I think laws should use parentheses to stop this kind of ambiguity.
But they aren't violating that law. There is a test for the application of the law, and The Onion article passes it.
Maybe the fear is that people will think the current administration is a joke too. Oh wait...
:(
The fact that your post was modded as funny makes me wonder whether I should laugh or cry
for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States...
It would be unreasonable to suggest that by using the seal, the Onion is trying to convey sponsership or approval by the Government of the United States and therefore their use is not a crime per Title 18.
If it was, as you state, because of the Republicans, then why do we have the biggest debt ever when The White House, the Senate and the House are all Republican controlled?
Your's is not an attempt to "history correction" but at "re-writing history".
However, the Onion is doing satire, and their use of the seal is perfectly valid.
Actually, no, that's not the case:
Actually that is the case:
"...for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States..."
Satire is, by definition, something that is not done in a manner reasonably calculated to convey sponsorship or approval.
Let's do some "history correction".
Sure, lets.
Now this administration may be able screw up the invasion of the wrong country...
As opposed to Bill Clinton's invasion of two "wrong" countries Haiti and Kosovo... a "quagmire" I think we're still stuck in. Not to mention his poor execution of the efforts in Somalia and his indifference to the people of Rwanda.
I am no fan of Clinton, but you can't seriously be comparing the scope of Haiti and Kosovo to Iraq.
leak the names of CIA agents...
At this point unfounded speculation at best. Besides, it's not a crime to "leak" the names of CIA agents unless the intent was to expose them. In this case, it was hardly the intent to expose an undercover CIA operative (which Mr. Wilson's wife was not), but simply to disclose how Mr. Wilson got the assignment. But speaking of breaking laws, who was it that lied to a Grand Jury abou a blow job? Oh yes, that was Bill Clinton.
First off, yes, it is a crime to leak the name of an undercover agent (or any other classified information) regardless of intent. And yes, despite the administrations carefully worded talking points she was undercover, and the information was classified as "secret" in the memo the CIA provided to the WH.
And the "intent to disclose how Mr. Wilson got the assignment" fib has been sunk by the time lines--unless you are claiming they began an organized campaign to clarify a statement three weeks (mid June) before the statement was made (early July) and are intending to split hairs about the distinction between why Wilson in particular was send (selected by the CIA, after being suggested by his wife) from the real question of why anyone was sent on this particular assignment (do obtain more information, as requested by Cheney).
As for the "unfounded speculation" aspect, you may want to catch up on the news. We now know that the administration has repeatedly lied about this issue, including the claim that Rove & Libby had "nothing to do with it" which was changed to "first heard about her from reporters" and then to "were acting alone, not as part of any organized campaign" and that they were doing it "in response to Willson's NYT opinion piece" but started weeks before the piece was even written and did so in an amazingly unified and coherent fashion. We were told that "Cheney knew nothing about it," even though today we learn that Libby's hand written, dated notes of a meeting with Cheney in the days before the campaign started include the salient details.
But I guess all this overshadows the fact that the 9/11 commission says Mr. Wilson lied about the Nigeria-Iraq connection, which is what the liberals want.
Stripping the political baggage from your statement (facts don't care who "wants" them), Wilson was disputed on a single point; he said he "saw" that the documents were forgeries, but had not in fact personally "seen" the original documents. Understandable as a miscommunication, and hardly discrediting, especially as (IIRC) he clarified the point as soon as he was called on it. He has been proven correct and Dick "We know they have WMD" Cheney has been proven incorrect on every substantive point.
--MarkusQ
P.S. For the record, I was up in arms about Clinton and the BJ too. Both for the perjury and (perhaps more importantly) for the effect on his family. Hillary can take care of herself, but imagine the effect that must have had on his daughter. Not to mention that the Democrats would have been up in arms, crying sexual harassment if a CEO or the president of a university had done something similar.
But just as I hold the Democrats responsible for their actions, I expect the leaders of my own party to behave themselves in a way that brings credit, not shame, on the party. And this cabal of nincompoops is doing more damage to the Republicans than any Democrat could dream of doing.
http://wallpaperfree.blogspot.com/ I want MY cease and desist order, too!
I did some a-checkin' and it turns out that COPYRIGHTS don't have to be registered, but TRADEMARKS and PATENTS do have to be registered.
Whooooo doggie!
I am betting that the white house issues a gag order on them. They seem to do it everywhere, these days
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Examples:
The corporations are the citizens. The non-corporate entities are just plebs.
Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
How about all of us folks who actually believe that Dubya is a (bad) comedy act, and then we wake up???
Or even how they did so well last summer after 4 hurricanes hit Florida. Gee, common denominator... FEMA... uncommon denominator... state government. Hrmmm maybe it wasn't FEMAs fault afterall.
2004 Florida Hurricanes - Election year in one of the nation's most populous states (plus the governor is the President's brother)
2005 hurricanes - Who cares?
bun-fhuinneog agam!
Oh come on, the goverment found time to send it? You people just bitch and moan. Sure theres other stuff to be done, but its getting done. /. is getting more and more pathetic each time I read it.
Because the government is supposed to represent the people, and therefore not to hold any exclusive IP. As others have pointed out, though, this is not an IP issue. Using the seal is more akin to copying someone's signature than copying their trademark, and it's forbidden by other laws. That doesn't mean that the government's action in this case is right or a good use of taxpayer money, but it's necessary to understand which laws and principles are involved before we can make that determination.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
"The government has no copyrights, trademarks, patents, or anything else that could be considered intellectual property. Everything they have is public domain or licensed from a private entity."
NSA
Oops, you were wrong, shut up now.
It's illegal to burn or otherwise desecrate a flag too, did you know that?
/ parts/i/chapters/33/sections/section_700.html
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18
So why do we let them flag burners get away with it then?
The answer is that it's protected speech, as is political satire. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution trumps everything in that "US Code" you have there.
As to whether the Onion's work can be considered protected or not, well, that's really up to the courts to decide. But my point is that "it's the law" doesn't mean shit, really. Laws can be wrong too.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
You know we're fucked when the White House doesn't even understand the first amendment or parody exemptions.
I've seen lots of movies with the presidental seal shown in them, and I'm sure its popped up more than a few times on "The West Wing". So why isn't the White House suing the producers of those movies/series.
No, free speech means saying anything you want, no matter who said it (or thought it) first, or any other qualification. Practical free speech means some limits necessary to running a working society are imposed, like the proverbial "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater' (except from the stage, or when there's a fire). Those limits do not prohibit satirical speech, because private commercial interests are overbalanced by the public interest in commentary. Especially where the government is concerned, satire is more important. There's no prohibition on profiting from satire - the profits enable the satirist to satirize.
So, in fact, this story is entirely about free speech, as is perfectly obvious. And it's about the most important speech that's protected by our laws: criticizing the government. The government isn't just some corporation with a product, it's us, it's ours. Especially right now, while this government is run by people under indictment for suppressing info, attacking legitimate dissenters, publishing lies unchallenged by most media, violating conflict-of-interest restraints on commercial communications, secret deals to launder money for illegal advertising. We need more speech, more criticism of the government. And satire lets us do that without the truth drowning us in numbing cynicism. Hail to The Onion, America's Finest News Source.
--
make install -not war
George Carlin: "Government wants to control language because that's how you control thought. And, basically, that's the business they're in."
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
This cease and desist letter is just what most are... a scare tactic. The only difference here is that when the govenment trys to scare you is called a Civil Rights Violation and the person who sent it should be imprisioned.
How does this compare to every time a movie shows the presidential seal in the "oval office" or during a press briefing?
So I'm at least partially right. It's been several years since I took a serious look at copyright laws. In any event, the Feds do not hold a copyright on the seal of the president. I haven't found any evidance that it's at all trademarked either (though my research is limited to a few quick searches on Google). And from a strict constituitonal view, my statement that restrictions on the seal are limited to areas of interstate commerce is correct, though the prevailing 5-4 majority of SCOTUS seems to have an absurdly expansive view of what constitutes interstate commerce. In any event, the Onion is clearly engaged in a commercial venture (selling advertising) across state lines, and that is depenant upon their publication of a satirical newspaper.
But beyond all that, I thank you, sir, for educating us all about our schizophrenic government.
For a funny experience, try "studying" The Onion website for fifteen minutes or so, then switch to a mainstream news site like CNN.com or nytimes.com.
Sometimes nothing happens, but sometimes you get a wonderful feeling of "reality dislocation" --- I can't really describe it, it sort of feels then like Onion's world is the right one, and ours the wacky one. There's really a strange feeling while the opposing world views settle back into their regular positions. I think it's due to the fact that The Onion, for all its weirdness, has an internal logic and consistency that you pick up on subconsiously.
Try it some time.
Yes, this article is dull, TFA is dull, TFA which TFA is dull in short this is dull.
PS. This post is dull also.
Two lies:
Person 1: "I did not take that cookie!"
Person 2: "I did not push that button setting off that nuke!"
Obviously, they're both fucking lying scumbags and should be hanged for their crimes.
The law has been on the books for years ... and so the White House decides to use that law to attack those who would parody the president but not to attack say a famous author who used the seal for a book cover the contents of which were firmly supportive of the president.
Quelling the voices of dissention by any and all means necessary has been top priority for this administration since day one, starting with something as simple as access to the press room, as serious as the Valerie Plame "leak" and as cheap as attacking an Onion lampoon.
Personally I find it rather incredulous that the White House even attempts to uphold the sanctity of the Official Seal of an office containing a president that shits all over the place.
I guess the White House can't be fooled by The Onion aganin?
If you misuse the Nabisco, Ford, or Slashdot logo, you will get the same reaction. Trademark laws exist for a reason. If I'm buying a Nike shoe, I want to know that it's really a Nike shoe. If I am selling something, I don't want to be misrepresented by someone else.
If someone logs onto a forum with your name, and says stuff that defames you, you are likely (rightfully so) to get very angry.
Total assholes, I tell you.
[javac] 100 errors
How will this affect the use of the Ramones official seal? Is nothing sacred, I ask you?
And we still technically have a multinational coalition in Iraq today...
Leave it to the intarweb's finest to misinterpret everything. Let me clarify: Remove said bums from the train station, placing them in a warm and safe shelter where they will be fed and clothed and maybe even be treated like a human being. Wet concrete steps hardly seem to be the place for man or beast. Let's not forget the hazardous conditions posed to the said bums and commuters should someone actually trip down 40 stairs.
See http://whitehouse.org/
if you look at that, you'll see that they've ripped the entire whitehouse.gov interface, and built thier content inside of it. yes, you'd have to have no sense of humor to realize that the prez wouldn't actively talk about being touched inappropriately by the holy spirit, or tell the victims of katrina to go into the military (would he?), but i can see where they'd be a bit upset.
the main onion page, though, is a no-brainer.
i wonder if the press confused the two?
Parody is protected by the first amendment and is *not* a violation of copyright.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
I like how you quote something without saying whereit is from "...for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States..."
I'll assume that this is some kind of law, so I'll quote something without attribution as well,
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Fair enough?
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
Parody is considered Fair Use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody#Copyright_iss
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Jesus Christ people, please READ THE F-ing ARTICLE!
Just the PRESIDENTIAL SEAL is to be stopped, NOT THE PRINTING OF THE ONION.
Maybe Slashdotters should get into the habit of actually READING the article before you jump to conclusions.
No speech is being hindered. This is a SEAL that is used to show that a document is indeed authenticated from the US President, and the Onion is using it - the government has every right to try to stop them.
NO free speech is being infringed!
Go ahead - minus this article down to the bottom like all brave slashdotters do to non-members who actually read articles and post here.
If Katrina had spared us that probably would have been the next thing on the agenda. Of course there's a lot more to it than cranking up the buses and driving them toward Houston; you have to have destinations lined up, and because you have to also plan for the hurricane NOT to hit you also have to have a plan for getting the buses back. Of course it's easy to forget little details like that if you're back-seat driving and ragging on the locals to deflect attention from the high-level failures.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
This is so damned funny I sent it to everyone I know. Grab some meat, people, because White House is trying to make fried The Onion and we might as well have shawarma!
No, that's too good to make up. When the Onion first started online it was frequently being mistaken for real. Not as much anymore, but it's not hard to see it being done.
My kid has to do news summaries for her high school class and she often turns in Onion articles and I don't think her teacher knows they are parodies.
If this use of the presidential seal is illegal, why not make it illegal to parody the presidents voice or use his name in satire. These activities seem to try too fool people into believing that the satire is official.
Yes adopting a fake seal would probably be a good solution and would avoid a nasty argument, but this is america for fucks sake. People shouldn't have to moderate their speech because it makes the government feel better.
here. Google turns up many more ("katrina"+"flotilla"+"turned back"). A lot of the reporting is partisan, but can you blame them? There is little doubt that it happened.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
I love the Onion, but doesn't anybody else find it a bit lame that they're just using the standard presidential seal? I mean, with all the graphic-arts talent they have to draw on, they could have had some fun coming up with a 'slightly altered' seal they could use, and then the feds wouldn't be able to say squat.
If the Ramones could throw together their own version, certainly the Onion could!
Read the best of all of Slash: seenonslash.com
It seems that a lot of his comedy revolves around the use of language. It seems like quite a high concept for comedy until you hear "the 7 dirty words".
Really, I had thought this administration had dropped to the lowest depths of cluelessness that it could. But this totally boggles the mind. On so many levels.
Can we PLEASE just get rid of this embarassment of an administration?
Because the government is supposed to represent the people, and therefore not to hold any exclusive IP.
50% bullshit.
The military (a tool, or subsection of the government) has secret knowledge of various positions of enemy military outposts. They also have knowledge of their own secret locations, the capabilities of their own equipment, and do be more blunt, their own weak spots.
The person legally acting in the office of the President has some of this knowledge.
Certain members of the military, and probably the president, know whether and where a surprise attack by our forces will be waged next (year, month, day, hour, whatever). The chief requisite of a surprise attack or capability is that it remain unknown by the enemy. Loose lips, and all that.
Secondly, even a public figure such as the president does not loose all right to privacy. Although I am a citizen, I do not have a right to know where the President is sitting, how many bowel movements he had, or any graphic details about his sex life.
Secondly, while there are provisions for parodying the government, there are limitations to be recognized. Fraud is not contained in the right to parody.
Government's role is, among other things, to represent the people and help people contribute positively to society at various levels. The means to do that are debatable and out of scope. The idea that Government had no IP rights, however, is false.
Would you support a publication that repeatedly pointed out you myriad of flaws, poor reasoning and simple idiocy?
If I were the president of the United States, then yes. After all, any true American knows that the press should be there to do exactly that. Of course, it doesn't actually work that way in America these days, because of the corporate ties that the mass news media has. Perhaps that's why so many government mistakes, intentional or not, are allowed to pass over there.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
try to lose the first carriage return, before the quotation, in your signature and that should do the trick and make space for the "e" :-)
--
HTH,
Anyone should be allowed to use the presidential seal as they wish.
I guess that the people at the Onion aren't creative enough to make up a satirical seal...
However, if I understand correctly, the Seal of the President of the United States of America is protected as a trademark, not as a copyrighted work.
According to the Trademark Act (15 USC 1052(b)), it would seem that it cannot be part of a trademark.
"..Consists of or comprises the flag or coat of arms or other insignia of the United States, or of any State or municipality, or of any foreign nation, or any simulation thereof."
The bolded part seems to be the important bit here. You can't trademark the flag, or the coat of arms, or any other insignia. The Presidential Seal certainly falls into that category.
So whatever they're claiming its protected as, trademark ain't it. As a matter of fact, the only grounds they have would be 18 USC 713, really.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
..... for the Bush administration to sue The Daily Show. After everybody knows that that show is only kidding.....
Oh wait.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Some people do hide behind satire as a way of expressing their political opinions.
That's the whole reason that satire is such a protected medium. It allows you to express your political opinions without fear of legal repercussions.
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Point in fact, Congress never paid Francis Hopkinson for his services in designing the Great Seal of the United States of America (of which the Presidential Seal is a derivative work), and many of the symbols associated with the Federal Government today.
1. Until Congress pays the agreed fees, the rights to the Seal are solely that of the Hopkinson family;
2. The White House has no legal claim to it's use.
Don't call bullshit unless you have Clue One what you're talking about, coward. "Intellectual property" refers to copyright, trademarks, patents etc. - not to state secrets, private conversations, or just any old kind of knowledge that happens not to be widely known. The two are easily distinguishable by which section of US Code is invoked. Now run along and leave the grownups alone.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
So when does SNL get their cease and desist?
Tom the Sigless
So, I was uh-doin' some checkin' and it turns out the gubmint not only aint trademarked the presidshul seal, they caint trademark it!
So uhgin. That's mighty fancy lawyerin!
If you can prove to me how displaying the unaltered Presidential seal on one's web page constitutes speech, I'll agree.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I think you made a typo "blowing ally" but seeing as it is congress I am not really sure.
I like how you quote something without saying whereit is from
I thought it would be clear from context since the parent cited the relevant law. I guess clicking that "parent" link was a little too hard eh?
What I refer to as "So Called Independents" are not actual independents, but those who identify with a party but respond to survey data as an "Independent." I'm not saying anything bad about someone who is actually an independent, but rather the person who calls themself an independent while in every election continuously voting for a single party.
If you vote Democrat in every race, for every election, for five years, you're a Democrat. Regardless of whether or not you call yourself an Independent. I live in Wisconsin, where party membership is not required to vote in primaries - around here 80% of the people who are supposed to be Independent aren't. It was never a slam against true independents.
What the danger is to the Republicans, and as I said this is part of a larger patern, is that the Democrats who identify themselves as Independents may actually be reinforced against the Republicans and therefore become more likely to feel Partisan loyalty to the Democrats (who they have been voting for).
Again, we're not talking about swinging anyone's opinions on issues, or changing who they'd vote for - merely whether or not they'll identify themselves with a party - which frankly greatly influences how many will show up to the polls in November of 2006.
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
I pretty much agree with your first paragraph.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
is that, as Chief Whitehouse Council, Harriet Miers probably signed off on the idea of going after the Onion. The thought of her on the Supreme Court gives me shivers.
- scsg
The problem is not that The Onion is speaking, or writing, things that are satirical and anti-administration. The problem is that they are using the signarture of the President to do it. They don't get a pass just because they're funny.
This is not flag burning. They can burn the seal if they want, or make a knock-off. They just aren't allowed to use the seal in the way they're doing. Maybe there's no possible confusion that The Onion doesn't represent the U.S. Government - but how do you know? Stranger things have happened than some West Asian pot-stirrer finding an Onion article and using it to start a riot, a war, or a really nasty food fight.
The whole thing could be resolved in 10 minutes with a photo editor. Instead, The Onion will use it to gain attention, which is what they (and their advertisers) want anyway.
sigs, as if you care.
below is a story from one of my GMs in the past....at one point he ran a vampire LARP game where some of the players were FBI agents....hence where this story is going...here's the email unedited:
__________________________________________________ ___________
My "It would be funny but it happened to me too" story:
I was driving through South Dakota when I was pulled over for having a headlight out. This was about a year ago, and the police were still worked up about that little Sept 11 thingy.
A little background first: I have a bad habit of not throwing anything away, and happened to be playing/running a Live action vampire game when I lived in Houston. Certain Individuals and I created some items as "Props"
that looked pretty authentic, especially to the untrained eye. If the individual in question wants to tell ya what we made he can do it. The only hint I'll give is that they definitly looked official.
So, anyways, I got pulled over by this SD state trooper, K-9 no less. My hair was about 2 feet long, shaved on the sides and back, pulled into a pony-tail. I was wearing my "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke -- God"
shirt. Ratty assed blue jeans, with a pile of trash in my backseat. He takes one look at me and says, "Sir, I am going to need you to step out of the vehicle."
Well, like I said, I used to live in Houston. So, I unbuckeled my seatbelt and put my windows up (Second nature when I get out of my car). In one fluid motion, I took my keys out of the ignition, locked the door and slammed it shut. As I did this he yelled at me to "leave the car running and the doors unlocked." After slamming the door shut, he told me to unlock it. Being the good subversive asshole I am, I said, "Nope."
Then he asked if I had any weapons on me, luckily I had already taken my pocket knife outta my pocket to open a bag of beef jerky and it had fallen on the passenger side floor. I said no, and he told me to empty my pockets.
Seems I had a weapon after all, fingernail clippers, in my pocket. Then he asked me to step into his SUV.
As soon as I got in, his dog went apeshit and he asked, "Do you have any contraband in your vehicle?" To which I replied, "What do you mean by contraband?" Chalk one up to being either stupid or an asshole who really had no plans to get home that evening. He explained, "Drugs, Weapons, other illegeal things." My smartassed reply, "Do you mean illegeal in the state of South Dakota, or just plain illegeal." Then he asked, "May I search your car?" I figured that I am already fucked right now, so I say, "Hell no."
We sat in silence for about 20 minutes, then he got out with the dog and had it sniff the car. He got back in and asked, "Where are you headed?" My reply of "Home" didn't seem to improve our relations much. Then he asked, "Where is your home?" To which I said, "South."
"Where were you comming from?"
"The east."
About 20 more minutes of silence. Then, "Can I search your vehicle?"
"Nope, Am I being detained?"
"Uh, no sir."
This went on for about 3 hours, eventually I was able to spot the in vehicle camera and noted that it was still recording. So he asked to search again.
Finally I capitulated! I said extremely clearly and loud, "Since I have now been detained against my will for 3 hours and I am very tired, I will, under duress, consent to an illeagle search of my car at this time." Then he asked me for my keys, and I told him they were on the trunk. He was a little pissed as he took the dog outta the SUV.
He tore the hell outta my vehicle, finding the item in question along with several wanted posters from a certain federal agency. Sadly these posters had my pic on them and Zeds pic too. *sigh* So this cop calls in the, according to him, "Forged items".
I explain to him back in the SUV that I did not attempt to impersonate anyone, nor did I identify myself as belonging to any organization. He said I was going to jail. I asked to sp
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
stopping the Onion from using the presidential seal should have no objection to anyone using their digital signature without permission.
No Sigs!
below is a story from one of my GMs in the past....at one point he ran a vampire LARP game where some of the players were FBI agents....hence where this story is going...here's the email unedited:
__________________________________________________ ___________
My "It would be funny but it happened to me too" story:
I was driving through South Dakota when I was pulled over for having a headlight out. This was about a year ago, and the police were still worked up about that little Sept 11 thingy.
A little background first: I have a bad habit of not throwing anything away, and happened to be playing/running a Live action vampire game when I lived in Houston. Certain Individuals and I created some items as "Props"
that looked pretty authentic, especially to the untrained eye. If the individual in question wants to tell ya what we made he can do it. The only hint I'll give is that they definitly looked official.
So, anyways, I got pulled over by this SD state trooper, K-9 no less. My hair was about 2 feet long, shaved on the sides and back, pulled into a pony-tail. I was wearing my "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke -- God"
shirt. Ratty assed blue jeans, with a pile of trash in my backseat. He takes one look at me and says, "Sir, I am going to need you to step out of the vehicle."
Well, like I said, I used to live in Houston. So, I unbuckeled my seatbelt and put my windows up (Second nature when I get out of my car). In one fluid motion, I took my keys out of the ignition, locked the door and slammed it shut. As I did this he yelled at me to "leave the car running and the doors unlocked." After slamming the door shut, he told me to unlock it. Being the good subversive asshole I am, I said, "Nope."
Then he asked if I had any weapons on me, luckily I had already taken my pocket knife outta my pocket to open a bag of beef jerky and it had fallen on the passenger side floor. I said no, and he told me to empty my pockets.
Seems I had a weapon after all, fingernail clippers, in my pocket. Then he asked me to step into his SUV.
As soon as I got in, his dog went apeshit and he asked, "Do you have any contraband in your vehicle?" To which I replied, "What do you mean by contraband?" Chalk one up to being either stupid or an asshole who really had no plans to get home that evening. He explained, "Drugs, Weapons, other illegeal things." My smartassed reply, "Do you mean illegeal in the state of South Dakota, or just plain illegeal." Then he asked, "May I search your car?" I figured that I am already fucked right now, so I say, "Hell no."
We sat in silence for about 20 minutes, then he got out with the dog and had it sniff the car. He got back in and asked, "Where are you headed?" My reply of "Home" didn't seem to improve our relations much. Then he asked, "Where is your home?" To which I said, "South."
"Where were you comming from?"
"The east."
About 20 more minutes of silence. Then, "Can I search your vehicle?"
"Nope, Am I being detained?"
"Uh, no sir."
This went on for about 3 hours, eventually I was able to spot the in vehicle camera and noted that it was still recording. So he asked to search again.
Finally I capitulated! I said extremely clearly and loud, "Since I have now been detained against my will for 3 hours and I am very tired, I will, under duress, consent to an illeagle search of my car at this time." Then he asked me for my keys, and I told him they were on the trunk. He was a little pissed as he took the dog outta the SUV.
He tore the hell outta my vehicle, finding the item in question along with several wanted posters from a certain federal agency. Sadly these posters had my pic on them and Zeds pic too. *sigh* So this cop calls in the, according to him, "Forged items".
I explain to him back in the SUV that I did not attempt to impersonate anyone, nor did I identify myself as belonging to any organization. He said I was going to jail. I asked to sp
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
When your boys investigated Clinton's real estate investments in Whitewater, all they came up with was a blowjob years later. I think it's another dismal loss for the Bush gang that no one got anything like that while they were screwing America.
Some more distinctions: no treason, no sueing parody newspapers. Even the indictments score is incomparable, especially on the charges. Oh, yeah, the job approval ratings are inverted. And, wait, er, the Bush administration is actually running the country, while Clinton is long gone. Is that all you've got, invoking your worst nightmares from 2 terms ago?
--
make install -not war
This is so true, it almost made me cry. Somehow it has been hammered into the American consciousness that everything public or governmental is bad, inefficient and/or even downright evil. Sadly, looking at the recent efforts of public and governmental agencies like FEMA, EPA, FDA, the White House etc. makes it almost look like it is true.
But guys and gals, it is our government and we have all the power to change what it is doing. So if the government is inefficient or doing evil, it is because we are letting it do so.
below is a story from one of my GMs in the past....at one point he ran a vampire LARP game where some of the players were FBI agents....hence where this story is going...here's the email unedited from 8/2003:
__________________________________________________ ___________
My "It would be funny but it happened to me too" story:
I was driving through South Dakota when I was pulled over for having a headlight out. This was about a year ago, and the police were still worked up about that little Sept 11 thingy.
A little background first: I have a bad habit of not throwing anything away, and happened to be playing/running a Live action vampire game when I lived in Houston. Certain Individuals and I created some items as "Props"
that looked pretty authentic, especially to the untrained eye. If the individual in question wants to tell ya what we made he can do it. The only hint I'll give is that they definitly looked official.
So, anyways, I got pulled over by this SD state trooper, K-9 no less. My hair was about 2 feet long, shaved on the sides and back, pulled into a pony-tail. I was wearing my "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke -- God"
shirt. Ratty assed blue jeans, with a pile of trash in my backseat. He takes one look at me and says, "Sir, I am going to need you to step out of the vehicle."
Well, like I said, I used to live in Houston. So, I unbuckeled my seatbelt and put my windows up (Second nature when I get out of my car). In one fluid motion, I took my keys out of the ignition, locked the door and slammed it shut. As I did this he yelled at me to "leave the car running and the doors unlocked." After slamming the door shut, he told me to unlock it. Being the good subversive asshole I am, I said, "Nope."
Then he asked if I had any weapons on me, luckily I had already taken my pocket knife outta my pocket to open a bag of beef jerky and it had fallen on the passenger side floor. I said no, and he told me to empty my pockets.
Seems I had a weapon after all, fingernail clippers, in my pocket. Then he asked me to step into his SUV.
As soon as I got in, his dog went apeshit and he asked, "Do you have any contraband in your vehicle?" To which I replied, "What do you mean by contraband?" Chalk one up to being either stupid or an asshole who really had no plans to get home that evening. He explained, "Drugs, Weapons, other illegeal things." My smartassed reply, "Do you mean illegeal in the state of South Dakota, or just plain illegeal." Then he asked, "May I search your car?" I figured that I am already fucked right now, so I say, "Hell no."
We sat in silence for about 20 minutes, then he got out with the dog and had it sniff the car. He got back in and asked, "Where are you headed?" My reply of "Home" didn't seem to improve our relations much. Then he asked, "Where is your home?" To which I said, "South."
"Where were you comming from?"
"The east."
About 20 more minutes of silence. Then, "Can I search your vehicle?"
"Nope, Am I being detained?"
"Uh, no sir."
This went on for about 3 hours, eventually I was able to spot the in vehicle camera and noted that it was still recording. So he asked to search again.
Finally I capitulated! I said extremely clearly and loud, "Since I have now been detained against my will for 3 hours and I am very tired, I will, under duress, consent to an illeagle search of my car at this time." Then he asked me for my keys, and I told him they were on the trunk. He was a little pissed as he took the dog outta the SUV.
He tore the hell outta my vehicle, finding the item in question along with several wanted posters from a certain federal agency. Sadly these posters had my pic on them and Zeds pic too. *sigh* So this cop calls in the, according to him, "Forged items".
I explain to him back in the SUV that I did not attempt to impersonate anyone, nor did I identify myself as belonging to any organization. He said I was going to jail. I
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_scandal
Somehow I don't think this current cabal/gang is innocent. Kind of a HUGE difference.
Especially where the government is concerned, satire is more important. There's no prohibition on profiting from satire - the profits enable the satirist to satirize.
I agree, but I think the Onion should satirize the seal itself too. Put a chicken in the place of the eagle or something.
Besides, your arguement would work for the article, but not the seal.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
People who don't vote for these animals don't have to feel as bad. People who vote for someone better get to feel good about our part. People who get other people to vote for someone better get to feel even better. And when we get people who actually manage our government in the interest of our citizens, we get to feel like real Americans - the best feeling in the world.
--
make install -not war
Not one whit does this matter. See how active this thread is in two weeks.
Why not the seal? It's not a parody of the seal. It's a parody of the chimp, but they still call him by his brand name, "Bush".
--
make install -not war
But you don't have to pay anything to access the Onion specifically. There is no registration fee, and you aren't required to buy anything from the advertisements.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Doesn't the government's IP belong to its citizens?
A Chinese newspaper, the Beijing Evening News, picked up an Onion article and ran it as an authentic story. The article said that Congress threatened to leave DC unless a new capitol was built. The retraction is posted here, and includes some classic lines, like So apparently it is possible for people to be misled...
Someone gets it. Seals predate signatures, and served the same purpose. Parchments of old were sealed shut with hot wax and the "seal" was used to imprint the ownership of this. It's a stamp. It was an early form of the "void if removed" sticker. The words "seal" and "stamp" in our popular culture derive from this practice, for example "seal the deal".
So, sure, it's probably parody and OK, but I think a lot of people fail to understand what exactly "using a seal" involves.
"First off, yes, it is a crime to leak the name of an undercover agent (or any other classified information) regardless of intent."
No, it is not.
Yes, it is. It's called "mishandling classified information" and you don't have to even leak it. Hiding notes about classified information in your socks suffices (remember Berger?). The whole point of having a system of classified information is that the people entrusted with the information aren't supposed to tell unauthorized people about it. Whether their intent is to impress their girlfriend, or burn a political adversary, or win a prize on a radio quiz show, or just make smalltalk while waiting in line at the theater doesn't matter.
As for the rest of your post, you might want to sniff the kool-aid you're drinking before you start calling names.
--MarkusQ
Of course, since people like you who don't live here and aren't aware of any of this know so much better than we do how to handle the situation, how's about next time there's a cat 5 hurricane barreling our way you shag your own fat ass down to NOLA and show us how it's done, 'k?
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
As a reasonable person, I hereby declare that the Onion should tell the White House to piss up a rope, because I would find them NOT GUILTY if I were on the jury. I see no false impression of sponsorship or approval, etc.
There, that ought to get me out of jury duty for this trial!
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
That's right, there's a cat 5 hurricane less than 48 hours away, and you want people to get on boats. That's almost as brilliant as the idiots who said anybody who stayed should have walked out. As for the public transportation, see my reply above -- this was the first time ever that the evacuation actually worked. Who in their right mind would get on a bus that experience says will almost certainly be caught in gridlocked traffic anyway?
Had Katrina spared the city, I have no doubt that some of the non-insane plans (buses, definitely; boats? puh-leez) would have been added to the agenda. It's not just a matter of saying "Hey, we got buses, roll 'em!" You need drivers, you need destinations, you need (most difficult of all) a plan to get the buses back if the hurricane doesn't hit. It's easy to sit in New York or San Francisco or wherever and tell us what should have been done, but the bottom line is you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
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...then the white house would post a parody of The Onion using their seal.
I think similar laws are in effect for the use or reporduction of a notary public's seal for the same reasons. When my wife was a notary, I recall the laws were pretty draconian. Even using a notary public's seal in satire would not be permissible as it could lead to misidentification of it as authentic just as the use of the Presidential seal on this Onion web page is highly misleading.
Let's see. NASA gets it. You and the president seem to be a bit behind though. Let me deliver a quick refresher here.
The Onion paid for that presidential seal. As did I. And in all liklihood you as well. Those of us who pay taxes are entitled to the fruits of those taxes. While many in government clearly don't agree with me, some do. To the point that the various state and federal open-records laws attempt to codify the notion that government is accountable to the people, and its various products should be available for public examination and/or consumption. NASA spends billions of dollars producing pretty pictures of far-away things, and then they spend even more money keeping them up on fairly well-organized web servers for the public. This is as it should be.
The idea that I paid for the creation of a work which I then have no right to use, even as satire, breaks several laws and any reasonable ethical code.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
Flip the eagle (no pun intended) updside down, shove the arrows up its ass and have it choking on the olive branch.
That's an appropriate seal for the current administration.
There goes my karma....
While you're providing corrections, you might care to notice:
FEMA list of nightmare scenarios. Bush's budget priorities transferred funds away from the Corps of Engineers levee projects, contributing to the collapse.
The sections of the levees that broken were the _completed_ parts of the levees. Not the parts that were waiting for repairs. I've heard reports that Lousiana squandered Federal money instead of spending it on levee maintenance. For example, the mayor used the money to purchase an F150 truck.
Also, don't forget that you can heap blame upon the state of Louisiana as much as you want - but the failure to Federalize the National Guard rests with one man alone. Bush had the authority to act and failed to. Did the state government screw up? Yes. But Bush -=LET=- them screw up. That matters.
The president requires the permission of the state governor to federalize the national guard. The president cannot legally federalize the national guard without the permission of the governor of the state in question. Lousiana did not allow the president to federalize the guard.
This is a law enacted upon the demand of the states. I wish I had the reference, but I'm sure you can find it if you google a bit.
Maybe it's because the Presidential Seal isn't the intellectual property of the President, White House, or government. This is just one more example of Crazy Cowboy being too big for his britches. He's forgotten that he is our employee. I'm sure enough of you guys work in IT to be familiar with the disclaimer you have to sign saying that anything you develop or invent while employed becomes the automatic property of your employer. And now the White House thinks that they can just usurp the property rights on something they didn't even create? That bonehead can't even drive in a straight line! How stupid does he think we are?
The feds said "get out of there" DAYS before it hit. Your own mayor didn't concur until it was too late.
This is absolutely untrue. I remember it QUITE well because I was in Detroit, MI on Friday evening, and went to bed thinking (along with the locals, the feds, the NOAA, and the rest of the country) that Katrina would be a cat 1 to cat 2 event for northern Florida. When I woke up Saturday morning I found out at the airport that it was going to be a cat 5 headed right up my arse.
About 36 hours later -- mid-day Sunday -- if you weren't out of town, it was too late. All previous evacuation planning had assumed a 72 hour window of opportunity, and we barely got 48 this time (and that realistically starting in the middle of the night). NOBODY was advising evacuation before Saturday morning, unless you count the "gee why does anybody live there at all" crowd. The fact that we managed to get everyone who had the means out in that time frame is a miracle. Nobody, including the people in charge, really expected it to work that well. It didn't work that well for Dennis a mere three weeks before. It had never worked that well in the 10 years or so that contraflow plans have been on the drawing board.
So where do you get this bullshit idea that "the Feds told us to get out days before?" Maybe from the same bullshit source that said those school buses were "intended for evacuation?" Here's a clue: Those school buses were "intended" to carry kids to school. Nobody in their right mind would have loaded them up with people when their most likely fate based on all of our experience would be to get caught out on a gridlocked overwater crossing when the hurricane arrived.
However vulnerable they are, buildings are safer than vehicles on the road in a hurricane. We live here. We know that.
Had Katrina spared us as so many other threats did, we might have gotten around to forming bus plans in the future. It's not as simple as it sounds. You have to have places to drive the buses to, and you have to have a plan for getting them back if the hurricane doesn't hit. And you have to expect the evacuation to succeed, which it never had in the past. We got that right just in time. It's easy for back-seat drivers who have never seen NOLA to snipe about what we coulda shoulda done, but out here on the porch it ain't that simple when you ain't got the 20/20 hindsight and you don't know what the fucking storm is actually going to do.
I will repeat this: I live here. I flew home only to evacuate 24 hours later myself. I have watched local officials prepare for this kind of event for my entire life. Kindly refrain from telling me how things are in my home when you obviously have no clue what you are talking about, kthx.
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Moderation +2
80% Insightful
20% Flamebait
What kind of insane TrollMod calls that simple defense of American freedom - to speak, to criticize the government, to make money, to own our own government "Flamebait"? Look, TrollMod, if you're upset about the criminal charges I repeated in that post, take it up with the prosecutor, or your Republican criminal gang. Don't try to suppress my free speech - because "wishing doesn't make it so". Why do you hate America?
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Excellent link, I doubt they can demonstrate that the purpose is to create the impression of Government approval.
for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States
Another example NASA. I have written code that the government now has a patent on. Why are people so dumb? Do they honestly beleive that nobody knows anything more than them, so they can get away with crap like that.
... let's remember that this is the best possible thing that could ever happen to them. Every major news network is going to be giving them free advertising for the next week.
you can't buy this kind of PR.
You really seem to be stretching credulity here by saying that The Onion is a non-commercial entity because their website is free.
The print edition is also free, if you're ever in San Francisco pick up a copy. It's sort of a city guide/entertainment paper mixed with the more well known satire.
Watching this administration try to cover all bases in order to protect itself is the Greatest Show on Earth (tm). Oops, that's Barnum & Bailey's trademark but it applies here.
This administration is a circus. No getting around it. I think the main reason they object to the seal is because the radio addresses that the Onion produces are dead on. They gave myself and my co-workers a good laugh.
Oh, you kicked that strawman's butt well! *Golf clap*
"It's fairly standard for any organization, government or otherwise, not to allow use of their trademark without endorsement or affiliation."
... "Their Trademark" ...
I note your thinking
Is it not "OUR TRADEMARK"?
Do "We The People" need some ENDORSEMENT or APPROVAL in affiliation to use it?
In my mind your statement perpetuates the US vs. THEM mentality. Government disassociated from its people. Not saying your wrong, just focusing on the point.
Yes- and perhaps they should invent a fictional president to make fun of too, since there's really nothing worthy of criticism or ripe for parody in the current administration. You sicken me.
Well, according to the CIA, the US imports far more than it exports, giving it one of the highest trade deficits in the industrialized world. Thus, whatever goods and services you say you sell to MY country, I'm almost certain that you buy more from us.
I understand exactly what the Onion is. Saying that it is not a commercial venture because it does not charge the "end user" anything is incorrect though.
Doug Moe: Onion bites back at White House
... some better ideas for spending ...
... going-away presents ... rudimentary judge school
Some people do hide behind satire as a way of expressing their political opinions.
Cowards like Voltaire, Jonathan Swift, Mark Twain, George Orwell, etc etc?
get back to work plebs.
remember when it was {of|for|by} the people?
Whitehouse.org looks to be substituting a vulture for the eagle on their parody seal. I'd suggest that the Onion might find putting a turkey on to be an appropriate replacement for their version. The ghost of Ben Franklin would approve... along with members of any political party not currenly holding the White House. It will even work nicely no matter who holds the office; we're not likely to ever get anyone as respected as George Washington in office ever again.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
An easy fix that's been used before - modify the seal to replace each star with a hand that has only the middle finger up. You simply won't notice it until you look closely, but any inspection more careful than a casual glance will instantly reveal that it's not the actual seal. The same can be used for arrowheads or any other small pointed objects in any seal or patch.
Then it's just another spoof, protected like any other goof.
Let's see. NASA gets it. You and the president seem to be a bit behind though. Let me deliver a quick refresher here. ... followed by two paragraphs of non sequiturs and other pointless blather.
Try sticking to the facts. They're at least relevant. Use of the presidential seal is covered by US Federal Law. Being cool, satirical, running amok shouting "freedom of speech", and knocking a politician is not going to cut it when there are specific applicable laws for the use the this and other seals. The Onion didn't adhere to the law. Period, end of discussion.
In short, you are the one who doesn't "get it".
Not sure that I should bother answering you as you will just mod my post down because you disagree, not because it is really flamebait. Ultimately there is no concrete proof that Karl was involved, though it is hard to believe he was not. There is tons of anecdotal evidence of these tactics.
= 17347p df
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid
http://interactive.pfaw.org/pdf/BarriersToVoting.
I encourage you to look at the well footnoted Barriers To Voting report. Additionally, I should point out that by no means am I saying that only Republicans were involved in voter fraud and intimidation, but most of the evidence suggests that Democrats' fraudulent activities focused on getting more votes tallied even if a given voter was ineligible or non-existent while most evidence of Republican activities focused on denying or making it difficult for people who were eligible to vote to actually do so. Both activities are in my eyes equally repugnant.
What is the point of a secret patent? If you want to enforce your patent, then you must tell other people what's in it. Otherwise they don't what part of it they are infringing on. Also, other people seeking patents would not know of the existence of the patent, and would not be able to check if any of these secret patents apply.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I guess ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, UPN, et al, are non-commercial too then?
If you went and tried to take "your" police car on a road trip to Vegas I think you might have some problem.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
I work for the White House. So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies.
Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
But trust me.... You don't.
I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you dont know what you are talking about. This is how bad info gets passed around.
If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.
Cuz some Slashdotters belive anything they hear.
The protected status of the Presidential seal is a matter of Federal Law (18 USC 713). As the executive branch is charged with the enforcement of federal law, such defense of the seal if needed falls under the purview of the executive; and it seems in this case the White House general counsel's office. If you don't think such protection is real, just try selling keychains with the presidential seal on them on a DC sidewalk and see what happens.
Of course, there is the question of whether the Onion's use of the seal is a violation under 18 USC 713... but while I'd say not, it's arguable either way, which would make it a question of fact to be decided in court by a jury. The free speach and parody issue might be another arguement, but would probably need to reach the Supreme Court. I suspect that it won't get to either of those. Either the Onion will start using a parody seal, or the White House (having enough teapot tempests for now) will grant the use exception requested in the Onion's response.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
we'd have a better president in Jim Anchower, dude.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
No, I made the argument that they have been trying to do the impossible for more than a decade and finally managed to pull it off in the nick of time. Since this is not an episode of the Hitchhiker's Guide, we are impressed when someone manages to do even one impossible thing and we are assholes if we bitch that they did not manage to do five more.
And as I told the other guy, if you think you can do better come to NOLA and run for mayor. Thanks to the national-level propaganda blitz Nagin probably won't be re-elected, and you can show us how smart you are by comparison.
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In Pennsylvania, an official-looking flyer announced that due to high turnout, Allegheny County had declared that Republicans were to vote on November 2, and Democrats on November 3.
holy crap that is pretty messed up, though not all that different than all the dead votors and ballot boxes that have ended up in the ocean. I wouldn't put that or other stuff listed in the report past some localities but i doubt this stuff was much more widespread than it is every election. I'm a lot more worried about diebold and other electronic voting making voter fraud harder to detect and track down since any system could have hidden api's that onle activate under certain circumstances, such as a chip monitoring user input and when a secret code is entered re-writing the kernel in memory to do something evil, would never be found through software inspection and who has the time and resources to verify the chip fabs and hunt for obfusciated evil code.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
and no i wouldn't mod anyone down due to disagreement. people doing that are tards modding down should be reserved for trolls and blatant flamebaiting.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I may not be an expert in DP/DR planning, but I happen to live here and I have seen the process. I have watched things improve a little every time the city tries this. It is fucking annoying to watch a bunch of nerds sit in their mother's basements and pronounce how they would have handled the situation so much better and what a bunch of morons a bunch of people they never heard of before are.
We actually succeeded in getting more than a million people out of the city -- about 90% of the population -- in less than 48 hours. The people who are ragging on Nagin and Blanco for what they didn't do should actually be on their fucking knees thanking them for their efforts. This required coordination between more than 10 parishes and counties and two state governments.
I have been in these traffic jams. I have stayed at times because I weighed the traffic jam potential against the hurricane. I have watched them get better at it every time they try. What in the name of Bob makes you think they haven't been looking and learning?
For Katrina nearly every existing plan at the local level actually went smoothely, many for the first time ever. To complain that such-and-such other plan wasn't in place is stupid and rude. Maybe a few more cycles down the road there would have been bus evacuations. There was no infrastructure for that this time nor was there any sane reason for such infrastructure to have been introduced. It's very easy to show pictures of the flooded buses and yell "Nyahh nyaah" but there are damn good reasons those buses stayed where they were. A lot of this bullshit is propaganda that was deliberately constructed to deflect blame from FEMA, which did not content itself with merely not showing up in time to save hundreds of lives but actively thwarted the efforts of people and agencies that did show up. Do not talk to me about what Nagin and Blanco didn't do when FEMA was turning away rescuers and aid and ordering doctors not to work on dying people because their papers weren't in order.
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Hey now, all citizens AND equivalent legal entities are still equal.
Some entities are just more equal than others.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Also, the "LIARLIARLIAR" schtick suggests that the chances that he's over the age of 14 are also below 30%.
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Try sticking to the facts. They're at least relevant. Use of the presidential seal is covered by US Federal Law. Being cool, satirical, running amok shouting "freedom of speech", and knocking a politician is not going to cut it when there are specific applicable laws for the use the this and other seals. The Onion didn't adhere to the law. Period, end of discussion.
..."
..."
In short, you are the one who doesn't "get it".
One could argue, of course, that those laws are themselves unconstitutional restrictions on freedom of speech; I'd be interested to know if they've ever been challenged on that basis. In any case, it's immaterial here, because both the laws you cited (and, I suspect, any other applicable laws on the subject) contain key clauses limiting the prohibition:
"... for the purpose of conveying and in a manner reasonably calculated to convey the false impression that such communication is from a department, agency, bureau, or instrumentality of the United States or in any manner represents the United States
"... for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof
No reasonable person could possibly think that The Onion is trying to misrepresent itself as being, or being sponsored or approved by, the United States government or the United states itself. Period. They didn't break the law, and by claiming they did so, the White House is putting itself clearly in the wrong.
Do you get it now?
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Here's how a secret patent works. NSA invents something and receives a patent for it which it holds in secret so no one else understands how the invention works. Twenty years later Researcher X and Company Y comes up with the idea and tries to patent it. At that point the USPTO reveals that NSA already holds the patent, it becomes public knowledge, and NSA retains patent control over it.
Just change the spelling to "s-e-a-l," like the animal. Seal of the President of the United States.
Wait..
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Fuckin auther NOTES that it needs registration, yet the dumbfuck doesn't take 2 fucking minutes of his life to find a regfree link.
Thanks, fucking cocksucker!
This is a first for the whitehouse and the onion. But then we have never had an adminstration so divorced from the reality based community that it should be worried about people being confused as to whether an item about the president in the onion was fact or parody. Its the NYTimes that the WH should be worried about.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Kinda like how in PHP, 1 == true, but 1 !== true?
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
Well, the key difference to the Clinton mishaps is that Clinton was acting as a....well, man. What, the guys gets 'served' by an intern and then tries like hell to cover it all up. Sounds like the countless marriage mishaps by us 'common' folks. So the only wrong done was the ridiculous sums of money Starr spent chasing impeachment and the fact Clinton gave the presidency a bad taste in someone's mouth (pun intended). Sure, I'm conservative when it comes to fidelity but in the end I want my presidents to handle their business. Still comes down to the fact that electing a President is an exercise of choosing who will f*ck-up the least...not finding the 'best' candidate like everybody thinks. --Tony
You never saw a fish on the wall with its mouth shut.
What I look for in elected officers, government in general, is accountability. Not just empty "I accept full responsibility" rhetoric followed by... nothing. When Clinton was up for impeachment, I was very concerned with whether he had technically lied, much more so than whether he had actually said something about a sexual encounter that was different from what happened. Because the president has to tell people things every day, most of which is spin, designed to highlight what they want to hear: politics. But the legal mechanics of what he says are essential to running the country. When I realized that Clinton had lawyered his way out of cross-examination about sex by getting the court to supply a definition that didn't include "just a blowjob", I was satisfied. I would have been much happier if he'd looked into the camera and said "I regret that I had relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky, and will answer for it to my wife and family". For many reasons, including blowing away the pretense of political puritanism that is used only for blackmail and unaccountable affairs.
So I want politicians who can be caught. The amount of power we allow them these days is so vast that I don't think anyone knows how to wield it without abusing it. I want political competition in every direction which keeps them at each other, on their best behavior, until they're safely out of office. In particular, I want a permanent office of "Independent Prosecutor" with subpoena power, starting from Inauguration Day. Collecting any evidence or allegations of misconduct. Why wait until political convenience allows selective prosecution? When they do something wrong, I want them nailed immediately. Impeachment and recalls should be more frequent, without taboo. And the president should have to nominate all the top Justice Department heads for confirmation by both Congress and the Judiciary. The Judiciary itself should directly oversee much more of the Federal police, especially the FBI. We've learned a lot about unchecked power and imbalances, especially from Nixon, FDR, and now Bush. We people need to apply that knowledge at least as much as the fixers who've rigged the machine to get away with their endless crimes, usually in secret, nearly always without consequences.
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The seal was not being used for commercial purposes; anyone who obtained a copy through the network was not being charged for it. Thus, there was no actual commerce going on involving the seal.
The article concerns the government going after The Onion about misuse of the presidential seal. Parent concerns Goldman Sachs, Clinton's 1993 budget cuts, Rwanda, Agent Plame, Hurricane Katrina, and the National Guard. There is nothing in parent about the presidential seal or The Onion. It is noise and should be accessed through parent author's Slashdot homepage, specifically the Comments Posted By section. In the future, please moderate with the article topic in mind rather than us-v-them political ideologies. It helps keep me from confusing you with a bunch of street preachers in cheap suits.
Were will thye go next? they are there because we already removed them from my area. Should we just give them some recycled landfill area and say go at it?
Actualy the majority of those bums are there by choice. we didn't have as big of a problem with them until the ACLU fought and won a lawsuite saying we couldn't instatutionalize mentely ill people who don't pose a threat to themselves property or other persons around them. We dumped alot of them on the streets after that in the 80's. Most homeless bums don't want to live in a shelter. A shelter feels like prison to them so they avoid it at all costs. Still another portion of bums are in that position because they have chosen not to participate in society for whatever reason. I found one persons reason was actualy that he felt working for minimum wage and paying taxes was too much of a insult to humanity. Not even taking into consideration that all his taxes would be returned at the end of the year. Well to put is simpler, it wasn't worth his time to find a job and try to get better pay because workign himself up was the payscale was too much bother.
How do we get rid of bums like that\?
We don't have access to government owned code from programs they developed or th right to use other stuff not in the public domain. The governemnt has alot of stuff that falls inot the catagory of IP wich isn't released to the general public.
I'm not saying this make anythign with the onion right or wrong but it does give the government certain ip rites or at least the apearance of having them. Our socila security processing software for example isn't in the public domain but ins't a state secrete (as far as i know).
He calles 50% bullshit when a more taft wording might have been "thats not neccesarilt true" or it doesn't alayws work that way.
Any person could lok at it and asume it was a press release form the white house because the seal was being used. Now those of us smart enough to see the joke would know better but not every one is as brilient as we.
You mean with secret dots?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Well, we are on thin ice here. Or maybe to out it in a different meaning term splitting hairs. Using the presidential seal isn't realy your free speech because it is representing the speech of the president and the office and what he/it stands for.
I don't think the first amendment carries the right for you to use my speech as your free speech. I maybe wrong but it would apear that using the seal in a manor violating that law would be the same as you copying my work for your own benefit. Clearly that isn't free speech protected under the first ammendment.
I guess what we have here is a problem deterimining exactly what a seal stands for and how the use of that seal is being interpreted by others as well as the intedned interpretation of the use of the seal. Ove these are determined, i think alot of views and opinions would have to change. Probably there will be some middle ground somewere that fits right into everythign.
The Onion is a corporate entity. Are you suggesting that corporate entities now have the same claims on our government as individual human citizens? What next, the Onion gets to vote?
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Actually, I would say that RELIGION is in the business of controlling peoples' thoughts. All other forms of governance just want to be able to have that level of control over the people they supposedly exist to serve.
Satire is a centuries-old type of literature that uses humor and imitation to attack and ridicule individuals' moral and character flaws, such as vice, unfairness, stupidity or vanity.
A parody is also an attack on folly, but it takes the form of a contemptuous imitation of an existing artistic production -- usually a serious work of literature, music, artwork or film -- for satirical or humorous purposes.
Satire and parody have served for generations as a means of criticizing public figures, exposing political injustice, communicating social ideologies, and pursuing such artistic ends as literary criticism. Satirists usually find themselves subjected in turn to criticism, contempt and, sometimes, lawsuits.
The First Amendment protects satire and parody as a form of free speech and expression.
Hustler Magazine, Inc. et al. v. Jerry Falwell
Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc.
Leibovitz v. Paramount Pictures Corporation
...perhaps they should invent a fictional president...
You mean that that guy is REAL? Oh! You poor Americans.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
I'm sorry, but after the administration's poor reaction time to Katrina hitting New Orleans, you can't convince me that FEMA would be able to suppress hordes of brain-eating zombies spilling through the streets of Pittsburgh before they had the chance to spread all over the western part of the state. Only the numerous potholes on the PA Turnpike will slow them down enough to protect Philidelphia from a swarm of filthy, decaying, evil creatures. (Zombies, not FEMA management.)
Any person could lok (sic) at it and asume (sic) it was a press release form (sic) the white house because the seal was being used.
From the freakin' Onion?
With that post, you really lived up to your username.
---------------------------------------------
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are so stupid.
Leno does it. Mad Magazine, Saturday Night Live and much more. When can we expect those to be hit by the Bush folks. Bush and those folks need to get off this kind bullshit waste of time crap and fix stuff like the defecit, homeless, unemployment and lots of other things besides SATIRE.
Agreed, but those laws that you point to are part of the US Code. And that is trumped by the US Constitution, which specifically protects free speech. Courts have long held that parody, and very specifically political satire, falls under free speech considerations.
So you can pass all the laws you like, but higher laws take precedence. To use a very similar example, Flag Burning is illegal too, under the very same chapter of code that you yourself pointed out. And yet flag burning as a political protest is currently considered protected speech.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
+__
I have seen the presidential symbol used all over the place in satires. Saturday Night Live and Mad TV use it all the time? Are they next? Are we going to start getting cease and desist letters for mentioning Bush in our Blogs next?
Damn man, get your panties in a bunch.
... film at eleven.
... so they will try at least. Tall order. We understand.
So the Onion maybe in violation of some law. It's not a capital letter offense breathless. "They do NOT want to mess with this!!" Onion Editors gang raped in prison
The Onion will do what they do. Make a parody of the presidential seal that is even more demeaning to the institution than Gee Orge Doob Ya "Little Bootsie Caligula" Buh Ush.
Ok
Yeah, Joe Wilson's wife put him on a list -- along with a few other names for recommendation, partly because he was the United States Ambassador to Niger years before. He knew the people to talk to, just like a lot of other people, and he had great experience in the region, which probably set him apart. When George Herbert Walker Bush is your buddy (Remember that GHWB was once the director of the CIA and has an intimate understanding of what Wilson was trying to determine, from an intelligence perspective.), you're a known quantity and not some kind of intelligence bullshit artist. After Valerie was outed, former President Bush wrote to express his condolences to the Wilsons. It's in writing
Oh, and your article is from July, and is a description of a committee report that was issued by a republican-controlled legislature, with a conservative supreme court on the bench, and a conservative republican executive. Funny what it says, huh? Apparently Mr. Fitzgerald, a GWB-sanctioned investigator, feels it was something worth looking into. The cost of this investigation runs at less than a million dollars. The cost of whitewater was 50 million. Cases that have merit are always cheaper to prosecute than shams, btw.
From the article:
"... the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address."
When the Vice President of the United States of America goes to the CIA with Scooter in tow and tells them what he wants to hear, it's no wonder the White House didn't hear the qualms.
Do your homework. Think about what you learn.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
Using any seal for any federal office or branch of government is a felony. The Onion is lucky it's a C&D instead of an indictment.
Or maybe you jackasses think laws shouldn't be enforced.
Clearly I wasn't making a legal argument. Legally, one hopes the Onion is in the wrong and they're legitimately in hot water over it. I don't think that's really relevant though. And don't try to argue that illegal => immoral, or even that illegal => should-be-prosecuted. If "The Onion didn't adhere to the law. Period, end of discussion." is the entirety of your argument, you'd better go turn yourself in. This isn't simply a matter of enforcing laws that are on the books because they're there and they should be enforced. There aren't enough law-enforcement officers in the whole world to accomplish that in just the USA, and it's not in the best interests of society or government to try to operate in that way anyway, so there's little point in trying.
This isn't a trademark case where enforcement or lack of same has any impact on the status of the mark in question. I highly doubt the government burning a bunch of taxpayer money pursuing this case and the Onion burning a bunch of advertisor money defending themselves is going to alter the public perception of government seals. So I'm left wondering what exactly the point is. Obviously what's done is done, and while strict enforcement might make a few people a bit more careful in the future, it's really quite pointless. There are plenty of examples (google image it) of slightly-altered and in fact not-at-all altered presidential seals being used in various contexts. The laws against this sort of behavior do have a purpose, but 1. they're not being uniformly applied; 2. they haven't led to an absolute respect of the seal; 3. lack of enforcement hasn't led to a proliferation of use of the seal in wrong contexts.
So while you claim I just don't get that it's illegal, the fact is that I do realize it's illegal. That's just not the black and white issue you'd like to think it is. Law enforcement like anything else is a tradeoff, and there's way more benefit to be purchased elsewhere at lesser cost. So before you spout off about laws which have no business existing in the first place because the material they cover is amply covered by prior laws against impersonation and fraud, perhaps you'd consider the larger context in which this action takes place.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
> Are you suggesting that corporate entities now have the same claims on our government as individual human citizens?
Yes.
Well, perhaps not the same claims, but equally valid ones. Individuals pay taxes to secure safe foods, defended borders, fire and police protection, public education, roads, free and fair markets, etc. Business pay taxes to secure many of those same things. These are things which government can provide for in a more efficient manner than individuals or companies by themselves. Taxation with no commensurate benefit is unfair, and while it sounds whiny, I think it's a reasonable standard to apply. Just as citizens have a right to claim entitlement to state services in exchange for tax monies, so do corporations.
I try to avoid strictly legal arguments because I don't have the training to comport myself well in such spheres, but the treatment of corporations almost like citizens (they can own property, enter into contracts, must pay taxes, etc.) is, IIRC, about 100 years old and signalled a fairly large shift in the business climate. Some privileges are restrained, but most are available to corporations as to individuals.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
The term "free speech" is not arbitrary, and comes from the founding fathers who used it in the spirit of "saying whatever you like so long as you don't interfere with others' rights".
That definition seems to me both theoretical and practical (a theory that doesn't work in practice is a bad theory).
Mine is Good
Thanks for pointing that out. I actually do know the real meaning of the phrase. It's just that I have seen so many instances of it being used incorrectly that I had gotten convinced that this usage was correct. A little research I just did seems to indicate otherwise, though, so I'll not use it incorrectly in the future. Thanks once more.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Especially right now, while this government is run by people under indictment for suppressing info, attacking legitimate dissenters, publishing lies unchallenged by most media, violating conflict-of-interest restraints on commercial communications, secret deals to launder money for illegal advertising.
You are jumping the gun. At the present time the only major indictment for a government official is for violating Texas election laws and money-laundering (DeLay). Investigations are on-going for insider trading (Frist), for perjury and interfering with an investigation (Rove, Libby and others) and for disclosure of the identity of an undercover CIA agent (Libby, Rove, Cheney and others)...and of course conspiracy in the last two instances. I suspect Libby, with his stupid "Aspens" letter to Judith Miller, is also facing indictment for interfering with a witness.
[If I can insert an editorial comment here: How can anyone so stupid as to write that Aspens letter be in such a resposnible position in our government?]
All the other indictments you mention above (suppressing info, attacking legitimate dissenters, publishing lies unchallenged by most media, violating conflict-of-interest restraints on commercial communications [whatever that is]) are not crimes. Amoral, reprehensible and deserving of being thrown out of office perhaps, but not crimes. Of course the Bush administration was also found in violation of the prohibition against government-sponsored propoganda for their Medicare "news reports", but no one is going to be indicted for that.
...and many people, including myself, believe that should not be the case. In fact, copyright law explicitly denies protection to those whose work is done directly for the government, and there have been attempts to extend that to cover grant-funded research. Patents are, unfortunately, not subject to the same requirements for open access. Obviously there are reasons to keep certain information from becoming public, but granting patent/copyright protection to the fruits of government work so that the government can make a profit from them is wrong. If my tax dollars paid for research I should be able to apply it, and whoever proves to be the best competitor in bringing it to market - not whoever has the best access to the halls of power - should profit most.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
But just because they can do something, it doesn't mean that I can't patent it. If I find a better way of doing it, then I can patent it. If I have no idea of how they did it, and they won't tell me, then how am I supposed to know if i'm infringing. They can claim a patent on a method to break encryption, and hold a patent. When all their really doing is brute forcing. Then, if I figure out a way to factor large primes to break encryption, they can just say that they already had a patent on a method for breaking encryption. If the way in which their idea is implemented is secret, then they can't prove you are infringing without revealing the way it is implemented from the beginning.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Reading the comments of slashdotters makes me want to smoke crack. Please spend a few moments researching to invalidate your opinions before sharing, ok? Thanks.
The use of copy written images and trademarks in parody is protected speech. But the presidential seal (and other government seals) do not fall into this category.
But, the onion is clearly within the law, as no one could confuse it's use of the seal as being an endorsement from the government.
Section 18 U.S.C. 713:
 713. Use of likenesses of the great seal of the United States, the seals of the President and Vice President, the seal of the United States Senate, the seal of the United States House of Representatives, and the seal of the United States Congress
Release date: 2005-08-03
(a) Whoever knowingly displays any printed or other likeness of the great seal of the United States, or of the seals of the President or the Vice President of the United States, or the seal of the United States Senate, or the seal of the United States House of Representatives, or the seal of the United States Congress, or any facsimile thereof, in, or in connection with, any advertisement, poster, circular, book, pamphlet, or other publication, public meeting, play, motion picture, telecast, or other production, or on any building, monument, or stationery, for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Bush tried to use similar illegal methods to stifle the speech of www.gwbush.com before he was elected as president.
Suppressing info before a Grand Jury is a crime. Various ways of attacking a State Department official, who publicly reports that intelligence documents are forgeries, are crimes. Publishing lies about people are crimes of libel and slander, among others; publishing covert status of CIA/WMD agents is not necessarily a crime under the shield law, but it is treason in the case in which it was executed (pun intended). The Senate Majority leader violating conflict-of-interest constraints to profit on HMO stocks while (criminally) passing a $TRILLION drug benefits law is a crime.
So maybe I am jumping the gun: indictments for the treason crimes are due today, not yesterday. Technically the indictments had not been filed. So what? I'm not parsing these legal details to protect these criminals. I'm not a lawyer. I'm a citizen. They're criminals, including people who possibly will never be indicted, like Bush, who's responsible for all the crimes within his government. Before you parse that under some Reagan precedent, I'll emphasize: whether he knew it or not. It's obvious Bush knew about the falsity of the lies to send us to war, as well as the attacks on people like Wilson who demonstrated counterevidence. But even if Bush didn't know - it's his business to know. Especially when he says "I want to know who was involved, and I will ensure that I do", then two years pass without Bush "finding out for himself". If he can't get Cheney, or Cheney's chief of staff, to admit they're outing CIA/WMD agents to coverup their war lies, he can't be president. That's the crime of "malfeasance", or at least "incompetence". I don't believe Bush is merely "incompetent" in his incuriosity - he just hides behind his "fool" mask to lower expectations on things he doesn't want to do. We might not get him convicted of treason, but we sure should see him fired from his job. Not before Cheney fries for treason, though - I've had enough promoting these criminals for their crimes. Instead, let's have those guns out on time for a change.
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make install -not war
You better be careful with your "guns out" talk - you'll have the secret service at your door.
Greed, avarice, hubris, misrepresentation and manipulation are not crimes. You diminish the power of your argument by being so hyperbolic. The conflict of interest Frist is being investigated for is not a crime - only a violation of house rules (the INSIDER TRADING is the crime), and even then he is not charged, only under investigation. Also, not telling all you know in front of a Grand Jury is not a crime unless you commit perjury by keeping your mouth shut.
I'm sick and tired of these people too, but shouting easy-to-deflect absurd charges is not the way to get rid of them. I understand your outrage at what these people do, but you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting them put in jail simply for being incompetent greedy jerks. A reasoned, rational argument carries much more weight than a hyperbolic irrational rant.
Lying to a Grand Jury is a crime, and that's what I'm talking about. Also, you're mistaken: I'm against it, but the 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination is not protected in Grand Juries, so in fact you are compelled to testify. I didn't include that in my "charges" (I'm not a prosecutor), but I expect that people who told the Grand Jury and the prosecutor things like "I don't know Joe Wilson" when they do are risking charges. Nor did I include "greed, avarice, or hubris". But "misrepresentation" is a crime, when it's "lying to a Grand Jury" or "lying to Congress to send us to war". And "manipulation" is a crime, like when you send a letter about "aspens" to Judy Miller: it can be evidence of "interfering with a witness". Incompetent greedy jerks can be thrown from office (or from a train), but I'm specifically talking about their actual crimes. I want to throw the book at these traitors. No sacrifice these tiny monsters can make can compare to the damage they've caused.
My rant is not irrational. I'm so sick of them that I'm pissed. Lots of other people are pissed, too. And I'm not afraid of the Secret Service, because I know my rights, and that includes metaphorical rhetoric in chatrooms. For every person who's turned off by my emotion, who will actually ignore the facts of these crimes because I'm screaming about them, there's at least one person too scared to think or talk about their own disgust who might be encouraged to stand up for decency because others are, too. The prosecutor will make the reasoned, rational arguments that might send these criminals to jail, or even execution (too good to be true). I will continue to be visibly angry about those same facts, and in mostly good company, too.
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make install -not war
YOUR tax dollars, CmdrTaco you dumbfuck?
So now EVERYONE's a citizen of the US?
Why does your symbol for rights have the AMERIKAN flag?
The planet's ROUND - didn't you LEARN that in KINDERGARTEN, CmdrTaco you DUMBFUCK?
You DUMBFUCK.
And you have to ask, you stinky turd, why people hate you so much?
Get a clue, you DUMBFUCK, and get it quick.
Well, when fox news showed joe lockheart with the presidential seal, we asumed his statments were endorsed and comming from the white house.
So, sure it someone could think that from the onion. After all, how many people think John Stewart is a real news program? I remember a poll that said quite a few voters got thier information from that news program.