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Gaming Fanatics Show Hallmarks of Drug Addiction
Game_addict writes "There's a story over at New Scientist saying that a new study has found that game addiction has the same effects on people as drug addiction."
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Guess what - so does religion.
Duh.
Where do I sign up for 'disability' payments?
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
That's why I get my fix on the internet... delete my cache and no one is the wiser! Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A bitches!
That certainly makes me be more careful about this than I otherwise would have been!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Maybe the mechanism of addiction is similar, but there is no physical dependancy, as there is with many drugs.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
It DOES NOT. In Fact, I can stop playing Quake any time I choose. And when I choose to I will. Just not right now. I have a couple more frags to get... NO Really... anytime I want...
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
In the same way that you can train a dog to salivate at the sound of a bell, you can train people to react in certain ways to various stimuli. That's not drugs, that's Pavlov.
Gamers (and, dare I say it, many web surfers) have trained themselves to forego real work and real life in favor of a game. In fact, games are especially conducive to this kind of training. The reward/punishment system is more or less random which increases the players' propensity to keep at it in hopes of success.
Rats who are fed every time they press a button will only press the button when they are hungry. However rats that are fed sometimes and not fed other times when they press a button will press the button all day long.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
So... somebody please tell me what kind of drug NetHack is? Cocaine? LSD? Pot? Dreamshit? Opium?
*goes to perform YASD in NetHack*
Too much of anything seems to have the same effects as a drug addiction. So far we've seen Internet addictions, other Gaming addictions, News addictions, and more.
Perhaps it's related to the definition of the word "addiction"? When somebody enjoys doing something they obviously want to do it more often. The question is just how much do they let that enjoyment interfere with their lives and possibly the lives of others?
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)
"Journalists show hallmarks of sensationalistic idiots."
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
What the article basically says is that hardcore gamers can become fixated on games, and will respond to games as positive stimuli. A gaming "addict", according to TFA, will react with "longing" to still screens of a game they want to play. This is news?
What this basically boils down to is that games, like every other pleasureable activity in the world, can become psychologically addictive. This isn't exactly new information. And it isn't worth getting worked up over, though doubtlessly gamers will be offended by the comparison to junkies, and concerned parents types, or asshats that cater to them *cough, Jackass Thompson, cough*, will make this out to be some fucking national crisis.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
The reason people get addicted to substances is that their body adapts so that only that substance can trigger the release of dopamine (i.e. the chemical that makes you feel happy). The point of TFA is that psychological triggers (e.g. gaming) can cause the same adaptation. In this way, gaming addiction is no less "physical" than drug addiction.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Seems like they made the mistake of assuming the converse here. Just because drug addicts are similar to game addicts does not mean game addicts are necessarily like drug addicts.
Drug addiction, being primarily metabolic, may have a more limited set of idenitifying characteristics. Game addiction, being primarily mental (or maybe even social) has more varying charactistics as psyches and social structures have a lot of built-in variance.
I'd have a much easier time buying the argument that drug addict behavior/characteristics fit in as a subset of the acceptable behaviors/characteristics of gaming culture.
ACHow about fixing the problem they're running away from (through temporary diversion like illicit drugs or (gasp) game playing?) Of course, knowing our congress critters (for that matter, most government officials on the planet) they do just outlaw "it" and declare the problem fixed.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
From my own experience, I believe this study to be true, but only for certain games. For instance, I've played and beaten DooM, and walked away. I've beaten D2X, but I still continue to play it. What's the difference? The open-endedness.
A "beatable" game, like DooM, is largely unaddictive. Once you've trashed it on Nightmare Mode, that's it, game over, endostory. Sure, there are timetrial and such, but they're the exceptiont hat proves the rule.
However a game like Diablo II, one that you can't truly beat, is addictive. Sure, you could kill Baal on Hell and call it a day, but who does that? Everybody keeps playing, building their characters up more and more and more, until you have a level 93 Hammerdin with all the trimmings- and like addicts, my brother and I kept playing.
(I should note here that I don't consider gaming with friends that you can see addictive behavior. What makes it less socially acceptible than dropping 10 bucks on a movie?)
I do have one issue with the study. Who's to say that the gamers had less ocular reaction because they were conditioned to having a sudden surprise from gaming itself? I hardly blink anymore when a baddie comes flying out from nowhere.
... so does Slashdot!
"I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
... that my only addiction is to Duke Nuke'em Forever.
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
I would have posted sooner but I was busy playing WoW. :)
I run a Debian/Kernel/Knoppix Mirror: (http|ftp|rsync)://debian.ams.sunysb.edu/
apt-get @ > 5MBps == teh win!
This is really an insult to all those who suffer from real addiction problems.
Oh no! I skipped class to play games!
Heh, that's minor stuff. Real addiction problems typically end in someone dying.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
A whole lot of people spend around 4 to 5h in front of a TV every day of the week, mostly without interruption and that's considered normal. TV addiction is much more widespread than computer game addiction. Yet I haven't heard of a TV user anonymous. IMO most TV viewers have serious issues.
I remember for a couple years in high school I'd be able to log in about 50 hours over the weekend playing UO (there are ~64 playable hours between when school gets out on friday and restarts on monday.) By the time I went off to college I really felt like I had some social catching-up to do. It really did have about the same influence on my life as a drug addiction would have. I cut off most social ties which didn't involve game-playing, my school work went to sh*t, and it caused all kinds of friction between my parents and I.
Luckly, once I went off to college I started bartending... and it's hard not to make friends or get dates when you get people drunk for a living!
Any coping mechanism can easily become addictive (which, iirc, is exactly what the study says).
Nail biting.
Sex.
Reading slashdot at midnight listening to moxy fruvous and lou bega.
Dominoes.
Correcting people's grammar.
Shopping.
Auto-erotic asphyxiation.
Well if you define addictions by what generates a positive response in the brain, just about anything that is fun can/will become an addiction. On the other hand I'd like to quote a line from Bob Sagat in the Movie half-baked.
"Have you ever sucked cock for pot!? You don't have an addiction."
^substitute games for pot. Serious addictions can cause a serious breakdown in self-image to the point where anything is acceptable to get the next fix. When I start seeing offers for people to give the ass-secks and other such non-social openly acceptable behavior then I'll deem "game" addiction as a serious threat to the youth of the world. But honestly I don't think that will happen anytime soon.
"Hey man I'll give you head for an hour with your Xbox360...."
"If I were bound by all laws everywhere I'm sure I would have committed a capital crime somewhere."
Sorry, I can't control it.
And I can't TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! I need Mario, I mean, I have a problem, I mean oh God!
I feel cold........
but does it seem like everything is like a drug nowadays, at least according to researchers?
Quick, someone compare "researchers" to drug addicts!
myherobobhope says: hi, my name is myherobobhope, and i'm a gamerholic. elitehackorz says: hi bob! mashdubuttons says: hi bob! 2sexy says: hi bob! 2 questions: What's the end game like and how much a month is it?
http://www.pterrys.com
The psychopathology of compulsive gambling has been studied in great depth and differs significantly from a drug addiction. I really don't see any basis for this group's outlandish claims. What they are describing is hedonism, not an addiction in the same context of drugs. Just because they may share symptoms does not equate them biologically.
Slashdot Post Fanatics Show Hallmarks of Drug Addiction!
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
- Concerned familiy members confront you with stacks of empty jewel cases and electronics store receipts.
- Making promises to yourself you can't keep ("Just one last round...").
- Tendency to play alone; preference for single-player games over socially-accepted multi-player.
- Begging the cashier at Best Buy to front you a new title ("C'mon man I'll have the $49.95 by Friday, I swear!").
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
Like most things that are sinfully delicous (pr0n, booze, pot) - video games provide so much satisfaction, even though its totally synthetic. Would I get a "high" reading a Tolstoy novel? Yes. Would I get a high getting wasted and watching Robot Chicken? Yes. One takes dicipline and the other is cheap, but they both work.
Can someone become addicted to any of these things? Absolutely. Anything that is enticing enough to detract from the dicipline of the daily grind can become an addiction (/. anyone?)
The article talks about "drug memories" - how about my keyboard? Man, it feels so familiar. My PS2 controller? Oh, yeah, totally an extension of my hand.
A point about video games specifically - does anyone know a casual+ gamer that hasn't gone on an 8 hour binge? I recently introduced my 30-something neighbor to video games (GT4 + logitech wheel). Sure enough, he did an 8pm-4am addict session after only two days and he'd never played video games before.
If you show me a screenshot of Super Mario Bros or Starcraft...hell yeah, I'm going to want to play that game.
One last comment - has anyone seen the Marco Brambilla exhibit called Half-Life? Its a room with three screens - the front is a 2x2 display of kids playing counter-strike and the sides are videos from the conter-striker game they're playing. Its done really well - watching their faces hit me like a rocket launcher. I had to sit down and watch it for 15 minutes or so. I almost totally broke down. All those empty souls just wanted a kill. I'm not against video game violence but you can't deny its impact on your inner being.
Marco Brambilla link #1
Marco Brambilla link #2
The big difference is I can beat the big boss in GTA and work on a different neurological/intellectual pathway, but heroin or cocaine doesn't have the same liimitations...
Is it just me, or does this article make you feel like you're already overdosed on something?
Moz on Fedora, the lettering is just all goofed up and quite hard to read...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
"Religion is the Opiate of the Masses."
"All warfare is based on deception."
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
I really needed an expensive study to know that gaming can be as addictive as drugs...
You can tell I'm an aries because of my ram.
I do agree that gaming is addictive. However, I would not for a second compare it to that of a drug addiction. Gaming hasn't done anything to my social or school life, im still getting as high as marks as im expected, and I have even more friends since I've started playing certain games. I have been gaming pretty much all my life and I aint gonna stop now.
Love a part of hate... Truth a part of lies... Whenever, however... still... Mr Maggoo.
Yet another study based on bias agaist something completely healthy in moderation, using drugs as a bait.
What's next, "basketball addictive like drugs"?
Are they going to build rehab centers for game addicts where patients can only play super mario brothers or galaxia?
A rolling stone is worth two in the bush!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4137782.stm ... like this poor guy!
MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
I'm not addicted I just have to play for 8 hours a day. I'm not addicted I tell you. Damn it - you don't understand. The voices in my head tell me to do it. You'll have to pry the game from my cold dead fingers.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
And this article doesn't even go near the gateway aspect of videogames. Why I never started drinking and smoking dope until I started playin'. Now it's all been downhill. After that last all-night coke binge playing Sonic the Hedgehog I figured enough was enough...it was time to turn my life around. And it all started with a few mushrooms and a crazy guy called Mario....
Game_addict writes "There's a story over at New Scientist saying that a new study has found that game addiction has the same effects on people as drug addiction."
;-)) As for the robbing well that's those who visit .ru websites !
So what nerds will start to go around robbing and beating people up just to get their latest fix! Apart from beating up some spotty kid behind the the till at the local kmart/dixons/pcworld etc I don't see most nerds being that succesfull with the beating part! Mind you if your talking about game fixes then beating up the local kmart loser is probably all that is required to get the fix
In the past, just like pretty much most guys involved in the computer related professions have done our fair share of gaming over the years and it is pretty much part of the culture. In fact, it is hard to socialize with fellow programmers unless you have some street credibility in Doom, Starcraft, etc. With computer use becoming as ubiquitous among the younger generation as it has always been with the "geek profession" crowd, I think that gaming addictions will continue to be a bigger and bigger problem in society.
I myself used to play an insane amount of Starcraft and Warcraft III. Do I regret all the time I spent playing those games? Sometimes yes, but hey those were fun games isn't life about having a good time so long as it is not at the expense of someone else? Then again, I am sure doing crack cocaine is fun the first few times for those who have tried it (just speculating since I have never done crack cocaine personally). Just like with any other addictable drug, gaming can consume your life and nothing else in life seems fun anymore. Before you know it you are depressed and the only thing you look forward to is gaming, but those darn dopamine receptors just won't get fired up like they used to due to the LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS: The greater the thrill, the harder and edgier the thrill will have to be the next time around to seem as exciting.
Now, I love playing sports, especially soccer, but you can only run around having fun kicking a ball so long before you physically get tired and the pain of sore legs outweighs the pleasure you have dribbling and passing the ball down the field and your brain tells you to stop. Unfortunately, with computer gaming the only thing telling you to stop is a parent, spouse, or your heart as it gives out playing your choice MMORPG several days straight nonstop.
But what if "gaming addiction" becomes a big enough problem to society that it causes other social problems just like many illegal drugs do when people get hooked on them. Just look at online Poker which was once a simple card game, and now has been bastardized into an internet phenomenon of largely anonymous competition. People play Poker not because they think they will get rich, but because people are addicted to the thrill of besting their neighbor. Simply put, competitive people like myself are addicted to competition and that can manifest itself in both positive and negative ways (I don't gamble BTW, because I feel gambling is a stupidity tax and I don't like being taxed in the first place).
So what should be done about gaming addiction, especially since it is not easy to just throw out your computer and function in the modern world? I know plenty of people who have thrown out their TV, but the computer? Seriously, get real. One idea is something that worked reasonably well with the arcade games when they were popular when you didn't have the Playstation 2 or the XBOX is a pay per play system. As you play more and more, the quarters you pop into the machine start to become painful after a while as you notice your wallet getting thinner and thinner. Once you are broke, you are forced to go work to get more money to play more games. Also, if you want to play games you have to make a conscious decision to spend money, whereas if you had a monthly rate of unlimited gaming (such as a Wow subscription), then you would probably overindulge in gaming just as fat people generally overindulge at all you can eat buffets.
So, one easy thing that can be done for any form of online gaming whether it be WoW or Poker or the RTS games I love is to force vendors to charge by the minute and tax that income so as to provide revenue for programs dealing with the social pollution generated from "addictive gaming". Kind of like how we tax many other vices or how we fine companies that pollute the environment under the premise that companies should be held accountable for the negative side effects their business has on society at large.
I know I will get flamed for suggesting this, but as an ardent gamer myself, I know it does not bode well for society if everyone is spending their time searching for loot in some MMORPG, rather than actually getting a good night's sleep so they can be productive at making loot in their real life.
Some news. Nearly every change will produce certain stress hormones. Going from warm to cold, light to dark etc.
So, playing games shares some physiological properties with taking drugs. But so do probably lots of other activities, like playing a musical instrument, watching television, having sex, participating in sports, running a startup company, etc. I think in order to decide whether we want to call this activity an "addiction", we need a lot more data and we ultimately need to make a judgement that goes beyond just similarity of physiological responses.
Right, now I got that off of my chest I do love games...However I have never stolen someone else's property to pay for my next hit; ok I admit that MOST (and I am sincere here) are original with FEW torrented files. However thos that are torrented are to check if I will like the game prior to paying for it, usually the answer is no.
Do I get withdrawal symptoms when I go on holiday? Hell no! Do I sit and quiver in my hotel bed seeing things for 24 hours deprivation, hell no.
Now, do I get exicited at the prospect of beating that next target in a computer game? Of course I do, but I don't need to do it tonight or tomorrow, I can still choose; that part of my so-called "addiction" is still in my control and is what seperates games from hard-drug crack and like...I still choose.
Karem
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
I would post a witty reply, but my 15-minute break is over. Back to CounterStrike.
From TFA:
...)? Gee, I wonder how evolution missed that one. In related news, the human body reacts similarly to getting hit by a baseball bat as getting hit by a cricket bat. No kidding ... the same mechanism! :)
Grüsser says that addictions stem from relying too heavily on one coping strategy, which eventually becomes the only activity that can activate the dopamine system and bring a person relief. "It's the same mechanism in all addicts," she says.
You mean the brain doesn't have completely separate mechanisms for addictions to video games and drugs (and gambling, and sex
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
You are here --> Step 1. Denial But seriously, most any activity can be an addiction, in some sense, if you do it compulsively to the detriment to the well being of the rest of your life.
Im pretty sure I've devolped a slashdot addiction...
"Could you put that in a memo entitled, SHIT I ALREADY KNOW!" - Sarge
addict3d is running a story titled MPAA: pirated DVDs are "New Drug On The Street"
"A lot of people we were arresting had drug conviction backgrounds. Actually, what they said was, 'This is the new drug on the street,'" said Supik, an MPAA field investigator who assists local law enforcement in anti-piracy raids.
Where's the physical addiction?! If I stop watching or playing will I go into convulsions?
However, if this is right, there may be a very positive side. Does being a game addict mean that you aren't going to become a crack addict and become a huge nuisance to society stealing things to pay for your addiction? Or is there an "intelligence" factor in this, i.e. people who become addicted to drugs do it because they are too stupid to become addicted to something less socially harmful, like chess, computer games, share dealing or politics?
It would be interesting to know. The traditional solution to heroin addiction was to wean addicts off on methadone - which is not terribly effective. Is the answer to provide some of them with wall to wall games until they find one that makes an addiction substitute?
Anecdotally, it's interesting how some "reformed" alcoholics seem to go into politics (G W Bush, Alastair Campbell in the UK) suggesting that there is indeed some sort of crossover compensating mechanism.
I think too we need to make a distinction between the things people do in young adulthood - often very stupid and subsequently embarrassing behaviour - and what they do in later life. Young men in particular may pursue an activity obsessively, but as they grow older it takes a more balanced place in life - whether it be drinking, fishing, or the pursuit of women. Perhaps it's a "normal" addictive phase, in which case again, the less anti-social the effects, the better.
Pining for the fjords
is that drugs, largely because of their illegal nature, are generally expensive habits. Gaming is relatively cheap. If I were to take the 40 bucks I spent on Starcraft and Brood War and then divide that amount by how many hours total I spent on that game, well then I am basically getting a really good bang for my buck, whereas with many illegal drugs, they can bankrupt millionaires practically overnight.
Even for MMORPG's which are on average around 10 bucks a month, the average gamer is still getting quite a good fix for the amount of hours they put into the game.
That is the benefit and the danger of gaming. Just like with masturbation, gaming is for all intents and purposes a free addictive activity, which means there is no reality check that you have a problem until you are evicted, homeless, and hungry. However, with masturbation you can do it so many times in a day before things start to bleed and then you know you definitely have a problem.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Basically, they were dealing with a loss of their own, and that was their way of dealing with it. It took over: Their health and money problems took a toll, and they ended up passing away at a relatively young age.
You know, I get bitter every time someone comes up with this "personal responsibilty" crap that comes up every time something related to an addiction comes up. THEY TRIED THAT -- THE ADDICTION IS TOO MUCH, AND THEY NEED HELP.
I'm just angry that our society is molded in such a way that people who need help get laughed at if it's a certain kind of ailment. I just hope your family doesn't have to go through what mine did.
ShortFormBlog: Writing a little. Saying a lot.
1. We admitted we were powerless over on-line gaming, and that our lives have become unmanageable.
- steps.html
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
These are the first three steps of the "12 step plan" posted on olganon.org
http://www.olganon.org/Gamer/Recovery/12-Steps/12
After reading these, all i wanted to do was fire up good old CS:S.
I spent 6 months in rehad many years ago when I was 18. Any comparison between "gaming addiction" and drug addiction is silly, and moreso insulting. I have lost several friends to overdose and hiv as a result of drug abuse. I have lost no friends to "gaming addiction".... Chemical Dependence run in my family, and has impacted many lives within my family alone. Gaming addiction doesn't.
In our next article.... Studies Say, Trauma Cause By Paper Cuts Comparable To Road Traffic Accidents.
Wankers.
Leo Laporte mentioned recently on the excellent podcast TWIT (This Week In Tech) in extended discussion with his old chronies from when TechTV's ScreenSavers was in its hayday (in otherwords before G4 TV bought it, moved it from the Bay area, replaced everyone who wasn't telegenic with pretty faces staring stiff and stupid into the camera - in short made it suck donkey ass) observed that Blizzzard's World of Warcraft redered one "Only _marginally_ functional as an adult"
A fact to which my level 31 Mage can readily attest. Apparently Leo has a level *blah* Paladin in that game.
Also, of note in that same podcast it was mentioned that there are "Latin American sweatshops" where US citizens pay those less of the less fortunate nations to spend the hours on end it takes to "level up" their character so that when they log in "voila"! They can stomp around the land of Azeroth as a Level 60 fill in the blank. Now, I may be an addict, but where the hell is the fun in that? Also, as in other games is the amazing fact that people are selling characters, equipment and "gold" for umtpeen _hundreds_ to a _thousand_ or more real US 'Mercian DOLLARS!
The Cyberworld never ceases to shock and amaze...
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Although I fully appreciate the high standards of debate on /. , will everyone please stop discussing this matter to such a fine detail?
I am acutely dyslexic and so I read rather slow.
You're wasting precious minutes I could be gaming with!!
"Je suis sac du poubelle dans la jardin"-- RDC
"Gaming is not a drug. I used to suck dick for coke. Now that's an addiction. You ever suck some dick for a video game?"
Of course if you show people pictures of games they enjoyed they're going to want to play them. I mean they're stuck in a room being shown pictures of chairs and other boring items, you show them a picture of Super Mario World of course they're going to want to play it.
If they'd shown a naked picture of Lindsay Lohan would they have concluded that all the subjects were sex addicts because they wanted to have sex with her?
yeah but gamers don't generally need large sums of money to keep up with their addiction. most i assume would be addicted to one game (eg starcraft, everquest, counter strike) in which the only recurring bill is the internet (and $15 a month if they play a MMO like everquest) which can easy be obtained from 1 - 2 days work a week
(this is also assuming they live in their parents basement and their parents don't make them pay board)
CowboyNeal!!!!!
7-8-9-10-0
Young men find a new excuse for their irresponsible behavior.
I thought Nintendo patented this effect.
... which covers causing a game character to hallucinate - e.g., see bleeding walls and hear maniacal laughter
Nintendo scored a patent Tuesday
I know it's true, gaming is addictive. I've been addicted to substances and then gaming. And I have to admit that gaming had a much more destructive effect on my social life than substance addiction/abuse. You see, when you smoke pot every day, you can still sort of perform your social activities (like have a radio show and do C++ programming), but when you play Counter Strike for 18 hours a day you just can't physically do anything else. CS also puts you in a paranoid-aggressive state of mind and it becomes your everyday mood. It was also quite hard to quit playing, because the better you get at your game, the more you want to prove yourself online. Like a sport, but a very addictive one. For me, it was easier to quit smoking than quit playing CS. I've been CS-clean for months now, but I still get the adrenaline rush when I think about it.
...and I'm a Slashdotaholic.
(That's right, I can't live without Slashdotahol.)
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
They say there is a Penny Arcade for every slashdot article.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/08/28
--
The last digit of pi is four.
After hoots from bong and a couple sweet bowls of bc bud, I get an irresistable craving to spark up some UT 2004. Yes, I am addicited to having a really fun time. :)
It's more accurate to say "gaming fanaticism" and drug addiction both show characteristics of obsessive compulsive disorder. Both exhibit mental preoccupation (obsession) and a repetitive behavior pattern(s) that may or may not be reinforced with a positive stimulus (compulsion). If the individual tries to break the compulsive behavior pattern, he/she is pressed by the obsessive thoughts and becomes uncomfortable. It's as if the brain had imported a subroutine with an ill-placed GOTO loop.
... people don't kill each other or themselves on account of Sonic Hedgehog.
Any behavior repeated constantly over a period of time that provides some sort of positive effect is going to be difficult to tear away from and may bring about OCD type symptoms. But comparing it to drug addiction is sensationalism
uhh wait... its november.
oh well, back to playing World of Warcraft.
When will the none drug ppl realize .... ITS NOT ABOUT THE ACTUAL DRUGS... It is indeed what keeps the mouse busy..
Signing Off
Duh
In the US, if you are considered very religious, it generally means that you go to church or a similar event once a week, for a few hours each time.
I'd like you to show me a WoW addict who plays only a few hours at a time, and that only once per week.
How many game addicts pay a tithe (the 1/10 of your income many Christian fundamentalist sects charge for membership)? At least the game addicts get some real rewards for the ridiculous amounts of money they pour into their obsession as opposed to religion addicts who only get the pleasure of getting to keep a false prophet in limousines, villas and luxuries with their hard earned money. Of course by no means all religous communities are guilty of such reprehensible behaviour but there is still plenty of religious sects, especially in the USA, that more closely resemble a business or a downright scam than an actual religious community and having witnessed some of these sects at work I would say that their members could be said to be addicted religion (not good) rather than being just devoutly religious (which is OK).
And that was the first time I sucked dick to get a video game... but it wouldnt be the last.
...I find this highly offensive!
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
Oh my god! I'm flushing Privateer and Myst down the toilet as I type this (don't ask). Once the Singapore government reads this post we'll all be hanged for sure!
To suffer from a disease is not necessarily having weird bugs swimming around your blood, but anything that effects your condition or behavior to clash with what society regards as vaguely normal and harmless. This is both normal and harmless. Therefore it is not a disease.
It is a bad habbit, though.
Perhaps this comparison with gaming is an attempt to lessen the perceived danger of drug addiction. If you compare drug addiction that most of us (thankfully) haven't experienced with something that I'm guessing most of us have (aren't most slashdotters keen gamers?). So it seems like an attempt to swing our opinion. As we're likely to be quite certain that gaming addiction is not that dangerous in most cases, the opinion more likely to swing is that of drug addiction. Good to see most comments so far have been along the lines of "No, it's quite different, don't be silly". This kind of journalism is depressingly commonplace. Like when they say cannabis has 1 chemical in common with chocolate. SO? That's like saying that an apple contains 100 times as much arsenic as a BigMac and implying that a BigMacs are therefore healthier to eat.
An addiction is a very serious thing and even though a total gaming addiction is an unhealthy thing it cant possibly compare to a total hard-drug addiction. Look at a everquest freak and then look at a crackhead ... one's a loser, one's on the verge of death and physically mutated.
...people still smoke.
If there's any vice out there which has been thoroughly taxed, known to be bad, and terribly unhealthy, it's the cigarette. Still, for all the effort that has been put into extinguishing the vice, people smoke, a lot.
It's not that taxes aren't deterrants. Higher prices certainly deter people from buying things. It's that when someone is addicted to something, price is no object.
All you do for an addict when you tax their addiction is make them pay even more money for it. The people who aren't addicted will be deterred and walk away, but the people who are addicted or closer to being so will hang on. They'll pay $1 an hour for WoW, EQ or StarCraft. They'll pay $2 an hour. They'll pay $15 an hour so long as they can get their fix. They'll pay every last cent they can spare, and then more, because they are addicted.
The rest of the populace will steer away from games, but the addicts will remain. You will successfully prevent the acquisition of new addicts to be certain, but you will also successfully force the industry to work as hard as they can to keep the addicts (now the only people who still fund the industry) addicted.
The best thing to do would be to start a charity that seeks to help people addicted to games. Individual solutions are largely better than governmental ones.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
After being used to "solve" problems in esoteric ways you find these people, for example, working as linux system administrator and rebooting the system as the first step to solve some problem in some daemond, the same happends to normal users and you don't know how hard minded they are! :S
>> Forget to eat, sleep and wash
:)
That's just silly the commands are right there
> get pie bag
Ok
> eat pie
You are no longer hungry
> drink bottle
You are no longer thirsty
> sleep
You sleep
> wake
You stand up
> wash
Command not recognised.
Ahh ok I see the problem !!
*posts note for admin to add wash facilities*
That should do it
Quit the double-speak.
So... Can you die choked on your own vomit a la Hendrix?
"Hi. My name is George, and I haven't played WoW for 3 months."
.... ....."
"Ok everyone, give George some applause, he has earned it. Tell us more about your feelings towards WoW, George."
* George looking transfixed at the fire axe in the corner, mumbling about hit rates and stamina bonuses *
"Well, it was OMFG soo cool! LOL! I am a level 60 Paladin, and OMG, Molten Core, there is a big dragon. We're going to kill it. OMG! Just you wait until the patch comes out....
*next week*
"Hi. My name is George, and I haven't played WoW for 3 days."
Tom Anthony
Words take on connotations from repeated use and those connotations become assumed, never re-examined.
for example 'addiction = bad'.
Addiction to cocaine? Meth? Sure. These will kill you.
Alcohol? Sure. Kills you, makes you dangerous, maybe. though some people aren't so affected by it.
Caffeine? Hmmm...
That's a tricky one. Is it more or less devastating to you as a person and those around you than say, more psychological addictions? Things like self-destruction in the form of 'cutting', or how about numerous creatures from the generation before mine who spend a lot of their time chasing diet plans.
Not even joking, my mother was addicted to diets. They made her happy, and she chased them like an addict looking for a new high.
How about marijuana? That's a tough one too. I've seen it aid people in destroying themselves, but more commonly it looks like caffeine, one more tool to use in surviving in an age where we've too much time on our hands, too much to get angry at if we've open eyes and ears, and too little power to change the things we hate. It hurts to spend so much time aiding the finances of those you work for and barely scrape by yourself, and a lot of people are in that boat.
Marijuana, for them, is a coping tool. Is it an addiction? Maybe, but does it really matter? There's room in a responsible life-style for an addiction or two, americans have a couple generations of practice at juggling dysfunctions.
is Marijuana more or less dangerous than social addictions? Have any of you ever been to a landmark forum? A born-again christian faith healing? A scientologist get together?
Our nature is to become addicted, and how badly that addiction affects us is very highly dependant on the individual in question.
So much time, so little energy.
Yeah, you could go work in a soup kitchen after work. You could go and run in AIDS marathons, or donate to charities (hmmm... I think I've met a few people addicted to the guilt-relief that provides. Have you?).
But it's so much easier to gamble. To light up a joint, to drink.
It's easier to hide.
And so far as I'm concerned, as long as you aren't actively making things worse more power to you.
Addiction to video games? I wonder how it feels to be a christian in the throes of holy passion, surrounded by others who believe the same far-fetched story, listening to the preacher shouting praises to their god and hearing the many many others Just Like Them shouting 'amen' at the end, in those churches that they design to shake with sounds. Feeling your maybe flimsy convictions echoed so loudly they shake the floor.
I bet it's a feeling saturated in dopamine.
Maybe even moreso than the feeling I get when I crush an opponent in warcraft. Or get a headshot.
I wonder what the ratio of doom inspired school shootings to abortion clinic bombings is in America.
I wonder what the ratio of fatal car crashes that occur under the influence of alcohol is to the ratio of people who have crashed cars deliberatly after playing GTA.
What I really wonder though, is the ratio of people who have hurt eachother over a piece of loot getting ninjaed to the number of people who have hurt eachother over an actual theft of physical property.
Video Games addictive? Of course. No sh!t. Anybody with eyes could've told you that a long time ago.
But, as the title suggests, so what?
It's not a tenth as bad as many many other unmoderated/unmonitored substances.
It's not causing problems of a magnitude that are worth addressing in any form until the real problems are dealt with, and probably not even after.
Yeah, I know, we should all be out curing cancer or going to church or making the world a better place, but of all the things we Might be doing instead, I can't believe anybody would be stupid enough to worry about this one.
Beautiful post man, I wish I had modpoints. (And why Anonymous?)
s/gaming/porning/g addiction*=100
For me the addiction is to create a game, not to play it (anymore). Does this make me a dealer? And for all the junkies here on slashdot I have some serious stuff for you to get off http://www.thedarkmod.com/
Do they have urine tests for game addiction yet?
I would sure hate for an airline pilot to suddenly think he's playing Microsoft's flight simulator and aim for the Prudential building.
Oh! Like you haven't!
How many people in this thread cited how much Diablo 2 messed up their lives? Guess what... None of them play D2 anymore. The scientists seem to have forgotten that people generally become addicted to a game, then stop playing a short time later because the repetition gets boring. The idea that they need a clinic is absolutely ridiculous. By the time they get checked in, they'll have stopped playing the game they're in for.
Help a student gain some exp. http://www.halovariants.com/touchup/index.php
I'm addicted to games, drinking & drugs, pornography, women, music, and playing with myself.
I do all of these activities almost everyday as part of my day to day schedule.
I find I'm a pretty happy person.
If thats bad,
For once I'd like to see an article like this about something thats actually harmful. For example, say something that involves hurting other people and oneself (in a noticeable way, drugs/drinking/porn/etc. do not count in the least) like "being 'addicted' to beating up old people and taking their money." or "'addicted' to murdering people because they cut you off at the gas station".
Those are some "addictions" worth regulating and talking about.
On a side note by drugs I generally mean drugs we all know are harmful and outta be legal. I don't smoke or consume crack nor do I generally associate with such people. That being said I have meant two functioning crackheads. Both had good jobs and niether seemed to let crack overwhelming control their life. They definitely seemed to be in the habit of consuming it and I assume it'd be hard for them to break that habit. However I seriously question the whole idea of universal "addiction".
I'll make you a deal. You pray to God for help and I'll stop the moment he shows up.
outside my office. I put money in, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but for some dumb reason I keep chucking money in the machine until it actually works.
I am talking from personal experience as an addict to online chatting on the Internet Relay Chat since its conception until around ... well, I am still an addict, once an addict, but I have not lapsed back to the online chat channels since I left the Unixverstas Olutensin Finlandia Vodka university around 1997.
Man, I did seek professional help for that addiction and got quite clean with a three month session in a hospital! The rule I told them to make me follow was this: DO NOT LET ME TOUCH COMPUTERS while I am here. That cured some of the problem, but I lapsed back into chatting in IRC for a few years after that, but no longer 48 hour sessions like I used to have in my worst day+night+days.
And talk about the financial costs of enormous long distance phone bills, when I still lived with my parents. Way back in 1986 there was no local dialup for Internet at my home. After moving to the University campus, I got direct feed via their Intranet, so that cut down the costs.
It is NOT just computer games that are addictive. Computer chatting can be too. Someone really should study this phenomenon from the behavioristic perspective. Perhaps they have already, who knows?
I forgot to finish writing out the quote. Oops. Here we go:
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Matt. 16: 25; Mark 8: 35; Luke 9: 24
The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
I always knew MS and Sony were no better than Drug Pushers
The Ballad of Slashy Dot:
Would ya fsck me for Mod points?
Need...more..Karma
"Excellent" just isn't enough
are owned. I guess if you are a Boy Scout, then the Boy Scouts of America own you for the rest of your life. Or if you are a Rotarian, or a Mason, or belong to any social club that involves volunteering your time and money.
And as a Catholic I concur with some of your sentiment about mega-churches, however, I think the whole media fascination with mega-churches and televangelists is way overblown and people like yourself are like any other human only scared of what you don't understand.
How many people do you personally know who belong to a mega-church (which is just a fancy term for modern evangelical churches)? Do you honestly believe they all think the same and might as well just be clones of each other.
Plus, most Christian institutions in the United States do far more good for people than bad (which is all you ever hear about in the media, not because the media hates Christianity, but because bad news is usually more sensational). Playing WoW 40 hours a week is a purely selfish activity, and judging by the behaviour a lot of people display in online gaming communities like Battle.net, I would say it is not just a selfish activity, but an anti-social activity as well.
Yah there are corrupt churches and there was the middle-ages with the Catholic church, but most of the money that goes to tithing goes to serve the various missions of that church which include helping out the poor which is a fundamental responsibility of every Christian regardless of whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or whatever.
Your money that you pay to Blizzard goes directly to the Vivendi corporate bottom line to fill the pockets of some effite Frenchman living the good life while the poor of his country riot in desperation.
Also, where did I say "totalitarian"? I didn't, you made that up. In fact, I regard the word "totalitarian" as nonsense and never use it. I said "authoritarian." Authoritarians look to an outside source of authority for their behaviour. Protestants tend to use English translations of the Bible (I have found very few who can even read as far as the first word of the Bible in the original, but that's beside the point.), Catholics rely on the Church, communists on the authority of the Party,Marx and Lenin, and fascists rely on the authority of a human leader. Did I say that fascism was morally equivalent to Christianity? No, I didn't. I would say that all authoritarian cultures contain a mix of good guys and bad guys and things in between. There were brave and moral Italian fascists, like the officer who refused to hand the Jews in his area over to the Germans. There have been evil Catholics and Protestants, like Cotton Mather and a number of Renaissance popes.
I suggest before flying off the handle you try actually reading a post next time. I was commenting on addictions, not seeking to write an essay on the similarities and differences between authoritarian cultures.
And for anybody reading this who puts two and two together - yes, I probably am who you think I am.
Pining for the fjords
your definition of playing an insane amount must differ greatly from mine.
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
Drinking 10 cans of Diet Coke per day, not knowing when to stop eating, shooting heroin... An addictive personality will always find something. It might as well be video games.
MMROPG is the worst. I am playing this MMORPG and I cant stop. The game can be played forever. The character can always get stronger, no matter how long you play. And when you played for years and its really strong, and you put all that time and effort into it. You dont want to abadon it. :(
And it become routine and life to play that game. It sucks!
Where do I sign up for Slashdotters Anonymous?
And has been for a long time for anyone who's been around hardcore gamers.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Just one more turn!
Does that mean I can get free drugs^Wgames from the state if I admit I'm addicted?
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/moeffju
i burned all my mod points already, but someone needs to mod the parent post up to at least +3. this is just sad sad sad, and while most gamers i know would not at all qualify as addicts, some folks will latch onto games (muds and mmorpgs more than other types, perhaps) and do nothing else with their lives.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - Major Mike Shearer, UK
I am perfectly aware of the fact that I am addicted to video games. However, it doesn't interfere with my work or prevent me from getting out of the house, so I just don't care.
I don't drink and I don't smoke (weed or tobacco). Everyone has their vices, right? Mine happens to be Metroid.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
like people who race cars or jump from plains
How exciting is jumping from a plain going to be?? At least try jumping from some kind of mound or hillock, you posers. You know, a knoll or something.
Unless... the plain is right next to a HUGE VAST ABYSS... that must be it!
wow... those extreme sports guys are awesome.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
At last we have an article where slashdotters can stop pretending that they are lawyers and start pretending that they are physicians, psychiatrists, and psychologists (research and clinical).
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
Everything fun has, at one point or another, been compared to "drug addiction." There was a study that said that web comics have similar effects to drug addiction. Evidentally, if you ask scientists, enjoyment of anything, having a hobby, or even hobbies...well that's no different from being a filthy crackhead. Me, personally I think these studies are being interpreted by people who have no fun in their lives and have giant sticks up their asses, wanting to ruin it for everyone else. And of course such studies are always of benefit to those with a political agenda....especially since many of those want to outlaw or regulate anything fun too.
It's not my fault pot and GTA are so fun together. Now if I could just focus on the damn missions.
Here's why addiction IS something to be scared of:
(1) Your compulsive addictive behaviour is detrimental to you, your relationships with others, and sometimes to to society as a whole. And yet,
(2) YOU CAN'T STOP even if you wanted to. That's why it's called "addiction".
Sure, a gambling junkie may not want to stop gambling if you ask them. What if they go on a week-gambling-binge and gamble away their life savings and their kid's college fund? That sort of shit happens all the time, because many hard-core addicts CAN'T STOP THEMSELVES from doing the addictive thing, even when it's harmful.
> There's a story over at New Scientist saying that a new study has found that game addiction has the same effects on people as drug addiction."
Well where I come from a long standing heroin addict of local repute had to have first his thumb, then later his fore arm, amputated due to severe infections caused by long term injecting into them.
So can games do that to you ?
this is just a means of revenge plotted by all my ex-girlfriends because I jilted them for a game of World of War Craft
Homer Simpson stopped going to church but was almost killed by a fire and saved by Flanders (Christian). (Krusty (Jewish), and Apu (Miscellaneous*) also helped out). Because of the help of his religious friend, Homer agreed to go back to church, but he ususally sleeps when he's there.
*as designated by Rev. Lovejoy
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
For those of you that seemed concerned, please take this professional advice...
Addictions are not considered a bad thing in the medical community unless they are adversely affecting your life in some way. For instance, in a earlier study approx. 62% of people in americans say that they need a cup of coffee in the morning to get their day going. This would certainly be considered an addition. Do we in the medical community consider this a problem? No.... Here is why...
The real question to consider is that cup of coffee adversely effecting your life or health? For instance, are people's health degrading from drinking this coffee? Are they destroying their relationships by dring this coffee? No.. So therefore, this addiction is considered for the most part OK...
In short, if your gaming is negatively affecting your ability to live, then give it up... Otherwise, play away!!
how gaming addiction can be very very tough to overcome.
Specifically with World of Warcraft which I have overindulged in. My life has changed a lot and now I spend way more time than I should playing the game. I've got to say that World of Warcraft isn't called Warcrack for no reason. It takes many of the addictive things in the real world and recreates it for you in the game.
1) leveling takes half an eternity and people who spend so long building a character that gets more and more powerful are less likely to give up because they feel they have invested so much
2) auction house... need I say more?
3) ranking system ala dollar auction. I'm not talking about level system but ranking system. If someone puts in more time than you in a day he'll get the higher rank and force you down the ladder. All the time you spend could mean nothing at all as the one who spent the most time gets the most benefits.
4) Insane requirements, like spending 200 hours doing the same thing over and over again to get a drop you "need"
5) the social aspect that is so encouraging. People congratulate you for finally leveling up, ranking up, getting that drop you so cherished, or finally getting the 2400 rugged leather you need for the darkmoon faire.
6) dependance on other characters. All players have special abilities and they are all needed at some point in time. Inside the guild you will often have the feeling that you are needed by lots of people to go through a particularly difficult spot in the game. The social pressure makes it hard to resist.
I have found myself losing sleep, skipping meals, skipping parties and outings with friends and even called in sick one day so I could farm items when the farmers are least busy on my server. My wife is very concerned about me as I even started turning her down for those intimate moments.
I used to be a very balanced person with a multitude of interests.
Now I spend all my time playing.
All I said sounded kinda funny to some of you but I assure you my life would have been better if I had not started WoW. I hate the game about as much as I love it. I might just drop the guild to which I am leader and shut down my account next time there is a wipe. I get so irritated and sleep poorly it is a real pain.
Occasionally someone (always male?) goes on a rampage and then blames some FPS or GTA or whatever. But really, I don't think game-addled "addicts" are panhandling for their next hit, or wrapping their cars around telephone poles.
Didn't Nelson lose his mom to some sort of breath-mint addiction?
"Scientists theorise that the most pleasing stimuli prompts the smallest of startle reflexes. They found that excessive game players could not be easily startled, unlike the controls."
It would appear that the Slashdot trolls that post Goatse guy, are actually trying to reduce our startle relfex, and get us addicted to Slashdot! Insidious!
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
No shit, it really does! And one-eyed lambs cure cancer, too!
After spending 4+hrs almost every night for nearly 5 years playing EverQuest, I don't have any doubts.
In part, these games do a great job in filling the void that was called "television" for those of us that were teens in the 70s or 80s.
A good game has to get under your skin and in your brain to keep you playing. And especially the MMO model, has to be addictive to keep players coming back. With real content updates coming out usually once a year or so, if it wasn't addicting, the players would leave after a certain point. Yet they stick around, doing the same thing over and over again, waiting for more content.
How many folks have a lvl 60 toon in WoW that they hit Molten Core once a week (all you can do by game mechanics) and then either goof off in other places with that 60, or level up another toon, all while waiting for the next week's MC hit? You aren't gaining any experience, your chances in a 40 person group of getting a gear upgrade is limited, so in effect you are playing for a crappy shot at that dangling carrot over and over again. And yet folks do it with a rabid passion. (After 5 years of EQ, the carrot didn't work on me with WoW. I hit 60 and got bored fast.)
So the fact that these games have a brain altering effect doesn't surprise me much. I still have an itch to renew my original EQ account and play, even though there isn't much I wish to do in the game. Other MMOs have been an ok substitute for a while, but since I am bored with WoW, and CoH/V is not bad but repetitive, I am waiting for DDO to hook my I.V. to, and feed my addiction. Kinda like a heroin addict waiting for his methadone fix.
I object to the use of the term "addiction" for any behavior that activates dopaminergic reward pathways. There seems to be a kind of "guilt by association" reasoning going on here--drugs are harmful, behavior {insert anything people like to do a whole lot} activates the same brain regions as drugs, therefore the behavior is harmful.
The reward pathways in which dopamine plays such a prominent role are probably activated in any activity that people enjoy. It is most likely an evolved brain system to encourage organisms to engage in behavior that is beneficial to the organism or its reproductive success.
What distinguishes a drug addiction from other types of intensely reinforcing behavior is that drugs such as cocaine bypass the normal mechanisms that control and moderate activation of this system, triggering activation of reward pathways directly. To apply the term "addiction" to non-drug related behaviors, no matter how intense the enjoyment or how compulsive the behavior, blurs this distinction between drug dependence and simple enjoyment
I've Got G.A.M.E. = Gamers Addictive Malady Endemic
Don't ya hate it when the correct spelling of your favorite screen name is taken?
Is that you?
People Fight/Die/Kill for their flavor of brainwashing fairy tails,
it just a frag-fest in 3-D (see iraq), with religions killing more humans in the world than anything else, except pure greed, and old age related diseases.
Religion and Video Games are the same.
Same irrational motivations, same emotional rush, same groupthink escapism from reality.
The problem with religions are they are the opposite of true faith and spirituality.
The whole Jesus vs the Priests concept, oddly enough,
Jesus was one of the most Anti-Religion people of his time,
teaching that heaven was in each of us, we are all god's children, and people should be nice to one another. The most negative comments from Jesus are to the Priests of his time, who he deemed to be worthless barriers blocking the faithful from 'entering' heaven.
Religious Corporations exploit their 'workers' for the increase of the corporation, strictly to gain money and power and members.
Jesus' criminal behavior knocking over money tables in the temple - was a direct response against people scamming faith by turning it into a huckster money racket to rip off the poor.
A good faith leads it's believers to become useful helpful active members of society, helping, healing, teaching, serving and nurturing others, or at worst - to stay out of trouble and keep their nose clean so at least they are not causing more problems for society or for themselves.
Video Games just encourage sloth and waste-
Sitting staring at a colorful light bulb while burning electricity.
That's lost work hours for personal gain or enlightenment, hobbies or growing a family.
Perhaps Video Games may be just as bad as TV, because TV encourages sloth and wastefulness(though some programs are educational), video games encourage some interactiveness - hopefully of a social nature, and not of an antisocial behavior.
TV and Video Games act as a 'Roach Motel' wasting tens of thousands of hours of human life per day, all the time weakening the nation by poisoning it's children (and adults!)
People who are brainwashed by religious fundimentalism are just as bad as useless geeks who play games all day and don't bathe-
but at least the geeks don't try to Ban Science from being taught in classrooms.
It seems to me that there are many, many things to which one may be addicted. Shouldn't we try to exercise some self-control and learn the recognize when we're in over our heads? This isn't new--it's the newest manifestation of core human behavior.
ascii art
Great, now I'm scared to see how much time I've wasted going through comments on Slashdot.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Game Addiction frequently IS drug addiction. How many times to you join a game just to be up against 'weed?', 'bong420', and the highest fragger 'StonedShooter'. Meanwhile, that asshat DrunkFlamer is just tking everywhere. I know that I, for one, like to get STONED AS HELL before I play some ET or Lineage2. Why the similarities? Both are escapes from reality. But, remember that they are not necessarily exclusive.
I don't really take this post as a troll post at all, but it's not as hard as you think to get answers to the questions you seek. I'm not saying you'll buy them, I'm just saying they're out there. At the extreme risk of getting hounded by anti-Mormons, I'll try to give you some reactions from that point of view.
1. God doesn't need human worship/belief, etc.
Mormons believe that the human soul is eternal - uncreated. We're all God's kids, and he wants us to grow and develop. Life is a phase in that development. He is there to assist us in developing. The point is not to make life easy - obstacles and trials are part of the development process - but to enable us to rise to the challenges that we face.
2. Not everyone's going to Hell.
Mormons aren't into the whole hellfire and damnation thing so much. We have a much different take on how things work out after this life, but the central doctrine is this: we are radically free. In this life we suffer from all kinds of circumstances that we can't control, but the one thing that we can control is who we are. And that's what we have to live with after this life: the person that we've become. So for most people the after-life is only Hell in the sense that it's a life of mediocrity when it could have been a life of peace and enlightenment if they'd consciously strugged to live up to ideals instead of being satisfied with avoiding major guilt and getting away with as much self-indulgence as possible. But there's room for development after death as well, so it's not like you just have one shot. That's the whole point of the atonement (the suffering Christ went through). It enables us to "do-over" the stupid things we do.
The only ones going to hell as in infinite torment are those who willfully choose it. And even then I'm not so sure on the "infinite" bit. So naturally Mormons believe hell is going to be almost empty.
3. Pain and suffering in life.
Some of the pain that we suffer in life is unavoidable and part of the design. Working out hurts, but it makes the muscles stronger. That kind of thing. Other suffering is a result of the fact that the most important element to our life on earth is our moral freedom. We choose who we want to be. Some of use choose to be evil, and further pain and suffering - both self-inflicted and otherwise - comes from those choices. But I believe that since we have lived an infinite amount of time before this life (which we can't remember because it would taint our choices so that we wouldn't choose good for the sake of goodness) that when we have passed through the troubles of this life the pain will seem as a momentary thing. I'm not saying that the hardship faced in the world is not real or genuine - it is. Just that I believe that we all chose to be here in the first place, and that in the end none of us will regret our decision. Some of the hardest things we do in life are also the most worthwhile. I think the same holds true for life itself.
4. Vague rules
Right now we live as children, following the rules of our parents. But the point of this life is for us to grow up. The rules were never meant to be all-inclusive because that would negate the chance to develop our own internal morality. The rules are supposed to be a framework to keep us from doing really stupid things, but the vagueness is intentional because it is when we start thinking for ourselves about morality that we actually develop.
5. Why doesn't this whole system work better?
That seemed to be an implicit question. If God wants to spread the truth, why do we have thousands of creeds and denominations out there? Why not pick one, show up now and then so we all know which one it is, and then we know where to go! Part of the answer is what you get in #4. Another part is that there has to be a force for evil as well as for good. Otherwise it's not a genuine choice. Some people follow that evil side just as much as others follow the light side. And if there was a force out
The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
o rly?
"I'll say it again for the logic-impaired." -- Larry Wall.
I can stop playing solitaire any time I want!
mark "don't want to...."
I'm surprised at some of the uninformed drivel being passed around here.
People are actually suggesting that wanting to do something a lot somehow constitutes addiction. It doesn't. It just means they really enjoy it.
Myself, I had a cocaine problem for a year and a half. Despite the fact that a cocaine addiction is almost entirely psychological, there were physiological manifestations. When I knew I was going to buy some, my attention span would shorten, my mannerisms would change and become twitchy, I would be unable to sleep, and I would have to defecate more frequently. We're talking partial liquification. Without doubt a cocaine problem is the surest cure for constipation.
Just wanting to play games real bad doesn't cut it. People with a psychological addiction are not simply anxious to get back to the game.
I have no doubt at all that games can be psychologically addicting. I just question whether people who say, "Oh he's totally addicted to WoW", really have any idea what constitutes addiction.
I'm sure you get something out of being so angry and aggressive, but what?
OK, I should have said "modern languages", not "English". But I notice you avoid answering my core point, which is that few Protestants have any knowledge of either Hebrew or NT Greek, despite claiming that their religion is Biblically based. Muslims are required to learn Arabic so they can properly understand the Qu'ran, and I appreciate this. My own NT Greek is just about good enough to enable me to read NT translations critically with the original alongside, and I wish I had time to improve it.
You seem to think that rational argument involves trying to pick holes in odd words rather than concentrating on content. Of course I had to write "totalitarian" in order to say that I regard it as a non-term which I would not use in discussion. That isn't being self-contradictory. And it is not being authoritarian to refer to the work of scholars, which are open to challenge and are peer-reviewed when published. I was replying to your ad hominem attack which accused me of flamebaiting, and pointing out that I was merely expressing what I consider to be quite mainstream views, at least outside the US. You are completely at liberty to disregard anything I post, but perhaps you should ask yourself why you are generating such anger? Why do you put "first degree" in inverted commas? Most professional people nowadays have two or more degrees, and I was just explaining in a few words that I was not totally unqualified to make my point. My subsequent qualifications, like most older people writing on Slashdot, are in computing. Are you just one of those people who cannot bear to have their beliefs challenged? If so, the Internet is not a good place for you.
Pining for the fjords
They say there is a Penny Arcade for every slashdot article.
/. articles to date: about 61130
/. number is closer to 500 when adjusting for dupes so I would say that "for every /. article, there is a PA strip". :)
0 &tid=124
Number of PA comics to date: 1034
Number of
(if you think I'm making up the numbers, go and check)
BUT, the true
Btw, when I was finding those numbers I saw a pretty funny one: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=98/01/23/13560
How many lives is that, three?
:P
Can you have 'Saves' between lives,
especially at dangerous / critical levels of existance?
Does reincarnation reset your Karma score to Zero,
or does it carry over through each life?
If you save a human life, do you get bonus points?
If you save a human life, but that person later goes and kills three other people,
do you get a net score of -2?
So if you lose your life intentionally attempting to save it
you shall lose it which means that you'll save it but still
you had the intent of saving it in the first place so you'll lose it,
but it was for the Lord's sake so you shall find it,
but having found it, where will you keep it and what will you do with it?
Abortion helps pre-born people lose their life, thus they find it, right?
So, logically, Abortionists are the saviors of the world?
Did Jim Jones' followers all go to heaven after they drank the cool-aid,
or since they were trying to save their souls did they lose their lives?
Does this mean that everyone who goes out to 'find themself' actually find Jesus?
Do girls find Jesus too, or do they find Mary when they find themselves?
To make sure everybody is saved, membership in the religion would be manditory and all other religions banned, for the good of the people, right?
And to make sure everybody is kept track of - we'll issue a number to each member, a number for the good of society's
security, and we'll call it a social security number, that without it you can not work, and not working you can not buy, and
not buying you can not eat. Sound familiar?
Religous Institutions, Like Big Governments, are corrupt, and the greater the power, the greater the corruption.
In the words of Dogbert, 'Bah!'
Maybe my logic is flawed but... Human beings are pattern recognition machines. Our worldview is nothing but the collection of patterns. Cars drive on the streets, padestrians walk on the sidewalk, planes are in the sky, these are patterns. If you see a car on the sidewalk this is clearly out of the pattern and indicates that we should note the incident. Specifically, we reassess the pattern in light of the new information by comparing it (car driving on the sidewalk?) to our previous knowledge (cars drive on roads, on wheels, etc.) and decide if this needs to be updated in light of new info (someone dyes their hair, this breaks a pattern, now we have to update in light of new info, and we now recognize that person (or their pattern) as having red hair). Our response to a situation (which is just an abstraction of lots of patterns) depends primarily on previous, similar experiences. This underlines the pattern-forming (habit forming) nature of us pattern-recognition machines. We know at 7:00 we need to wake up, that is the pattern. We know next is a shower, brush-teeth, etc. But, our favorate road is closed, we must reevaluate the situation, find a new route, and, if this is a long term thing, update our pattern to reflect the change (if short term you should remember it tomorrow I hope). What drives our reaction to these patterns? Chemical desire. We go to work to make money to buy food to satisfy a chemical need. We have sex, exercise, smoke pot, and play video games. In turn we must date/socialize, keep up that gym membership, pay our dealer, and pay our electric bill. Paying our electric bill is an addiction in that we need it to stay warm (satisfy Psyiological needs), and continue in our patterns (habits) such as watching tv (addiction), playing games (addition), or doing improvements to your house (addiction). My point in all this is that people are habit-forming by nature. What differentiates between what we commonly call an addiction/habit is that it is negative. Running is an addiction but is considered ok. Basketball players are atheletes, not endorphin addicts. So, what is the distinction? Common morality. I do not mean morality! I mean the pattern of morality that is recognized by those across a particular community. In Amsterdam smoking pot is not out of the ordinary and thus not against COMMON morality. I use this term very very loosely for lack of a better word as legalizing (not smoking) pot can easily be considered moral by both deontolical (doesn't hurt anyone but the user) and utilitarian (we spend BILLIONS on keeping pot dealers in jail) means. My point is not whether it IS right or wrong but whether or not it is outside the PATTERN. This is why video games are considered addictive and football is not. If you lived in Korea (with a different common morality than above) you will find that video game 'addiction' (our standards) is the norm there and they actually have multiple TV stations dedicated to video games. Here gaming is a sport not an addiction. The truth is... Everything is based on pattern recognition and pattern forming. As a result, everything can be habit-forming and become an addiction. The only difference between hobby and addiction is the perspective on whether or not activities are 'healthy' under 'morality' but this is done at the macro level and not necessarily reasonable. Our society runs on addicts. 95% of the US are workaholics. Most of them follow the same pattern day after day and become 'addicted' to their pattern of life. They just don't get called addicts because working is considered (and is) a very moral thing. So, I've ranted, my bad.
If you are really an alcoholic, you need to quit drinking period, for ever. There is no "in moderation" as an alcoholic. You may not be that extreme yet, but it'll come, and screw up you life. If you do drink in moderation, as in you can easily drink only a drink for an entire day regularly, then you aren't an alcoholic and never were.
Alcoholism is something that you either have or don't, and there's no curing it. Drinking heavily does not make one alcoholic, it makes one a heavy drinker. The difference is the need. Alcoholics feel a need to drink, a very strong one, and they can't just stop. So where a non-alcoholic has no problem having one beer and then not drinking anymore, an alcoholic finds that near impossible. They may not have a ton in front of you, but they'll do it. For example you all might go to a bar and have two beers. The non-alcoholics will go home and leave it at that. The alcoholic will go home and proceede to drink the rest of the night.
So, if you find that once you start drinking you have problems stopping, that you drink more often than you want to, that you basically ALWAYS drink a lot (meaning 3 or more in a day), then there's a real good chance you are an alcoholic and you shold seek help. It can't be treated, you can't wean yourself off it like cigarettes, it's just something you have to live with. However that means completely forswearing alcohol. It's also not something to be ashamed of, it's just how your body works. It's like diabeties or a similar disease. Drinking doesn't cause it, it's just how you are.
I knew I had a problem when I found myself in the back alleys of Paragon City, late at night -- tired, dizzy, and strung out -- trying to score just one more damn badge.
These are symptoms of compulsive behaviour.
It's a chicken/egg thing.
Drugs create a chemical compulsion based
on screwing up the brains
frontal vs. amigdalic regulatory chemistry.
In video gamers, the compulsion is likely
a part of thier personality.
The real question is:
Are video gamers drawn to them because of latent compulsive behaviours?
Naturally I was a bit skeptical regarding the danger and excitement of jumping on a flat surface but when I slipped and got a concussion, boy, was I hooked.
Since everquest is the first successful MMO, I'll share this story
One guy I knew stopped bathing, cut back work to 20 hours a week, didn't do laundry, change his cat litter, or buy food (he worked at a greasy restaurant). He began urinating in empty 2L coke bottles because getting up to go to the bathroom was too much trouble.
He lost the majority of his teeth due to bad hygeine, lost everyones respect, and after about three years of play sold his character (soul) online for 1000$
That is an addiction.
Playing a game for a few hours a day isn't addiction. Watching TV a few hours a day isn't addiction. Those are hobbies. True that they aren't in the victorian spirit of self improvement like rowing or amateur scientific pursuit, but they won't rot your teeth, lose your 'real life' friends, and steal years of your young life.
1)Unless you're a soulist, the mind is a product &reflection of the physical.
Technically speaking, you mean vitalist.
This is the materialism vs. vitalism debate.
Vitalism: (philosophy) a doctrine that life is a vital principle distinct from physics and chemistry. (life is the non-material 'spark' that animates the physical. -me)
Materialism: Philosophy. The theory that physical matter is the only reality and that everything, including thought, feeling, mind, and will, can be explained in terms of matter and physical phenomena.
Both are philosophies. IMHO, there is more 'scientific' evidence supportive of vitalism than there is supportive of materialism, but I guess that just depends on what you'd rather believe...
See Ingo Swann's _Psychic Sexuality_ (a self-published book, search for the author's website) for more on this topic.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
Which game has the same effects as Xanax?
Wait. So people who exhibit obsessive behavior exhibit obsessive behavior? Wow! how much did THAT particular research gem cost?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Dying for what you believe is easy,
Living your faith, in truth and action,
for 80 or 100 years,
well, that sure is a lot harder!
There is that Pascal's wager:
Live a 'good' life helping others, being kind, being responsible,
- and living the good life is it's own reward.
If there is no god, well, at least you got to enjoy a good life.
Life a 'bad' life - breaking the law, getting into trouble, hurting people, and society will be out to get you, and if there are angry gods, well - you pissed them off too!
So as an even bet, it's better odds to live a good life.
That is kinda what was ment by the getting a 'life eternal'
one worth remembering, one worthy of praise.
When your flesh dies, your soul, your life history is eternal and lasts for all of time.
So make all your yesterdays, good yesterdays,
so when you run out of tomorrows,
the people you leave behind will be happy you were here,
and will miss you when you are gone.
Sitting around playing games doesn't help your family,
and most likely doesn't help yourself,
it just kills time, as time is killin you...
You lost the game, the moment you paid for it.
The real game is played at the cash register,
once you lose $40 for a new disc, it's already game over!
You've been played, you're poorer and some corporation just got richer.
Why do you think it's called DirectX?
While the study does show that there are factors which can reinforce a behaviour, similar to eating disorders, etc, there is no chemical addiction.
In chemical addiction, there is the possibility that the chemical changes have rendered the adict's brain unable to choose anything except the drug. I don't really believe that, but it's at least remotely possible.
In non-chemical addictions, the fact is, each person makes their own choices, every time. While conditioning and feedback may make some choices more pleasant than others, at the end of the day, everyone has to take RESPONSIBILITY for themselves.
Calling them an addict is dangerously close to blaming the problem on the substance, not the person. It's not the computer game which is deciding to ruin your life -- IT'S YOU. If you don't like that, then *Change Your Mind*.
Sheesh...
An alcoholic is someone you hate that drinks as much as you do!
wow, i once HAD a freind like that to... he just stopped coming to school one day. Which was weird, because he was on a good track for university paid in full by mommy and daddy... that was... oh... 5 years ago. Hes still living with mommy. Still hasnt graduated...
And they say video games aren't addictive and constant playing does not have reprocussions.
JTL
There are no 'Addiction Warning' labels on the video game boxes,
so obviously the company is at fault for the pain and suffering
of players who gots ski11z, and the virtual pain and virtual suffering of frag-bait.
Time for the lawyers to start chasing the big game companies for $$$ gReeN!
Playing video games isn't going to get you thrown in prison, your home and other assets taken away and prevent you from ever finding a job.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Of course, it doesn't *have* to be today. I'm doing it today purely by choice. I'm in control. Yeah. In control. Only 15k xp to go.
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
So now that Games can cause the same type of addiction as *some* drugs do, when's the Fed's War on Games going to start? I wonder if they'll classify Quake as a Schedule 1 drug?
The long and the short of it is that people need to be able to handle their high. When they can't and it fucks their lives up, that's a bad thing. When they can and it doesn't fuck them up, then it's not...
I do have some experience with this - I've used alcohol, weed, hash, opium, LSD, microdot, mushrooms, some coke, and some crank... Never got addicted to any of it.... and I always did my work/school BEFORE getting wasted... I got out of college and don't have time for that shit too much any more... I don't drink too much - maybe a drink or two when out for dinner, and a few beers at a party 2x a year... Weed once in a while when I'm with some friends... Nothing else... I've been in those situations where we used to get completely fucked up and I don't do it because I just don't have time -- something called a "life" tends to get in the way.
I'd prefer to have the house, car, and job and not blow all I've worked for over the past few decades just because I can't deal with not getting wasted...
Is this just me?
God got bored with being able to do everything and anything, afterall, being all powerful would get boring, especially if your the kind of being that always was, always is, and always will be - that's a very long time needing filling.
So, he made the ultimate Sims game to see how it goes, it's interesting to watch. Every now and then he jumps in full force as a special character to shake things up a bit.
Since god gets everybody's eye-view of the world, it must make for quite an interesting show, just imagine the bandwidth needed to experience every creatures' life(not just humans), for all of time, in real time!
Like I said, at least it's an interesting show.
Worship gives purpose to humans, it's something that humans need to do, not something a deity needs to get:
Odin be Praised! The Blessings of Ra be upon you, may Zeus aid you in your time of need, from Atira's blessed body, into Awonawilona's world you come, in Kinich Ahau's holy name, Amen!
I look forward to humans meeting creatures from another world,
would they convert to a human religion?
It's about time for Earth to meet other creatures from other worlds, we could use some more religions, with only 15,000 to 60,000 gods that I can find on earth, there sure has to be some more out in space I would love to learn about.
Where is Zefram Cochran when you need him?
TV and game 'addiction' aren't really comparable though. Your general stream of TV shows is quite often restricted to a particular timeslot. If at 10:00 your shows are all over and there's nothing to watch by a few coloured lines or maybe reruns of 90210 (I'd rather watch the coloured lines, myself)... then chances are the TV is getting switched off. Games, even online games, can be played anytime... there is no timeslot restriction other than perhaps the times when you lack for opponents in online games.
Seems like they only studied three out of four groups (gamers, druggies, neither). Where's the study on drug addicts who play games? Are the effects additive, or not?
I thought that it was just me! I haven't played in a couple years, primarily behind the dreams begining to invade my waking self. The boss has display cases full of swords in a couple of the halls here, and I still can't walk by those c/o well, you know...
I thought this article on Reasons to Quit Everquest" had a lot to say about the nature of the problem....
and with that, basically all that needs to be said has been said
Drugs addicts kiss more girls than your average joe
Games addicts kiss less girls than your average joe
People have a very hard time visualizing a being which is actually greater than themselves.
So they visualize one that matches their lowest common denominator, and worship that.
> I've had dreams the past few nights that I've been doing Real Analysis.
"Sleep is a function. Only once I prove Sleep is differentiable can I sleep..."
I had those dreams before the final exams of almost every math class I took, thanks to the 2-3 days of intense study beforehand. Probably anything which consumes your attention to that degree will cause a similar problem, and probably for any of them the solution is simple balance - don't specialize your time that severely.
... However people that are paid sometimes and not paid other times when they put money in a machine press a button will put money in a machine press the button all day long til they have no money...
Sounds familiar?
See my art -> http://herbevore.deviantart.com
I'd believe it...
I just wonder how many Tax $$$$ was wasted on this study.
They compared 15 men in their 20s who admitted that gaming had chased other activities - such as work and socialising - out of their lives, and 15 game-playing but otherwise healthy controls.
Who says that the gamers would have had an active social life if they weren't gaming?
They're making a generalization about addiction. ALL addictions are like this, whether it be sex, games, drugs, music, tv, or even the lottery. To single out games just makes those who play games look a little more like drug addicts to the non-game playing community.
In another test, the researchers monitored the response of a large muscle in the eye, to see how much the volunteers could be startled while looking at a game-related image. Scientists theorise that the most pleasing stimuli prompts the smallest of startle reflexes. They found that excessive game players could not be easily startled, unlike the controls.
If you try to get someone to flinch, maybe they'll flinch the first few times, but usually after a while, people either get used to the flinch-worthy action, or they come to expect it. Any stimulus that a person gets exposed to will eventually desensitize them after a while. I was raised being allowed to watch movies like Friday the 13th. Now, bloody movies do nothing to me. I have a friend who, in contrast, was not allowed to watch any scary movies. Years later we watched a movie together and he couldn't handle it. Just another example of personal experience in a given situation.
"Computer games have a reinforcing quality, for sure," agrees John Westland, a social worker at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, Canada. "I don't think the comparison [to a drug of abuse] is a bad one," he says.
I wonder how long it will be before a pre-employment application form has 'Game addiction' along side 'Drug addiction'. Might as well add Mountain Dew to the list, or hey, coffee!
And while not everyone agrees that computer games have the addictive potential of drugs, or even gambling, groups such as Online Gamers Anonymous and EverQuest Widows are overflowing with stories of people so wrapped up in slaying monsters that for days they neglect to eat, wash or sleep.
When this happens (I recall reading a story about StarCraft in one of the Korean countries a while back) I think the issue to consider is the person who doesn't eat or sleep for days at a time, and not the games. For every person who has gotten addicted to pain meds, there are plenty others who have taken them without any addiction. Blaming the pain pills (or in this case, the games) is misfocused. Obviously that person needs professional help.
And they said zombies weren't real!
World Religions are a form of science, in a way.
They all are models built up of words to describe some aspect of
experienced perception or reality.
Each model, or religion, describes the origins of life,
the purpose of life, how to live, and what comes next.
Since there has existed thousands of religious models,
in hundreds of different languages, we can see that all possible
models are different and/or slightly flawed.
People started new ones, gave up on old ones, and it is likely humans will get some newer,
better religion in the near future (not just rehashed old ideas).
So religious models themselves go through evolution.
Perhaps the purpose of humans is to help evolve the perfect god?
The problem occurs when people attempt to Force Models and Symbols of reality, as more important than Actual Reality.
Environmental damage, caused by people, is in part due to their belief they are 'separate' from nature,
and they can destroy animals and plants without thought.
But in reality, humans are animals, brightly thinking critters, but creatures none the less.
Homo sapiens are born, grow, breed, eat, poop, and die just like every other animal on planet earth.
They just get themselves all mixed up trying to figure out why?
Well, life exists because it Wants to exist, and life evolves and continues because it is able to change and continue.
The 'Intelegnt Duasign' people want to insist that an Alien Being simply
manufactured the whole planet and all the life forms on it, and the galaxy and universe too.
Fine, they can believe that, but now that rules out the greatest mystery then?
A god has been reduced to simply a powerful being, and need not be feared or respected or loved or worshiped.
The whole Cosmos is just some guy's pet project.
Actually, the quality of his work is like, a C- grade.
Perhaps god really is a C- student god?
A slacker who really isn't into doing his homework,
creating creatures, balancing the forces of stars and nature, raising a few self-aware creatures.
He got an 'D' for his dinosaurs, 'not smart enough' he was told.
But he really liked the big guys, such a lush and beautiful world it was, so many plants!
Then he had to go scrap it all and start over... bugger!
God's got problems, but he does the best he can, considering, he only skimmed some of the required reading.
If the primates don't work out, maybe next time he'll try:
putting 4 thumbs on the dolphins, big brained squirrels, smarter trees, or sentient plankton networks?
Humans were not the first 'master' species on Earth, and well, they wont be the last, either.
A couple of dozen ice ages later, he can try out some new species.
So, whatever religion believes, give the dieties a break.
They've been working on getting all of this creation stuff done, and they missed some deadlines, but it is what it is.
Be happy you exist and have a universe to live in,the rest is up to you, the world is yours, free willed creatures.
Well... Until the assignment is due, and the next grades get posted.
Bugger! Not again!
Sorry for getting back so late, I've been gone like I said in a previous post...
I must say, however: that was a very nice waltz around the point. You could be the intellectual equivalent of Muhammad Ali. Skillfully done indeed.
I guess it all revolves entirely around exactly how you define religion, faith, and spirituality. To me, religion and spirituality are like bread. Religion is a loaf of bread in a plastic bag, mass-produced by machines, with minimal human input. There are a huge variety of breads on the shelf at the supermarket, everything from plain white bread, and sourdough, Jewish rye, to whole wheat, pumpernickel, and even bread with raisins and cinnamon baked right inside, and they come in all shapes and sizes! Hot damn. I think I associate the raisin-cinnamon bread to Scientology. It sounds good going in, but all of those good ingredients never add up, and the raisins are kinda creepy, just like thetans and Tom Cruise. Short bastard. Excuse me for the digression... The breads are consistent in quality, and the plastic bag keeps everything fresh so you can take a slice every now and then to make some toast, or perhaps a sandwich.
Some people believe that you have to open the plastic bag in a certain way to get at the grainy goodness inside, which necessarily, are the individually sliced pieces of preserved spirituality. They believe this so fervently that entire families have been opening the plastic bags the exact same manner for generations. In fact, they go to bag opening school every week so they learn to open the bag in such a way to cause minimal damage to the bag! They have faith that if they follow these instructions in at least a general way, they can preserve the continence of their plastic bag, and therefore keep their loaf moist until they get the chance to go to the market next week, lest they end up with croutons, which, incidentally, are great for soups and salads; but they like PB&Js, and cinnamon toast, not potato soup or Caesar salad!
And then comes along Jesus, except, to me, he's pitching homemade bread, fresh from the oven. It's the kind of heavenly, doughy bread that you could just imagine crawling into to take a good nap. It's tastier, and probably has better nutritional value than the stuff available at the market. It's really amazing, drewl-inducing stuff. Best of all: he gives you the recipe, so you can cruise down to the local agora and grab up the commonly available ingredients, and then you can easily create a fantastic Martha Stuart-esque loaf of Jesus-bread at home, for practically nothing, all it takes is a bit of work. That's the enlightenment part, I think. To be Christian is to aspire to the bread baking mastery incarnate, and disincarnate, that is Jesus, is it not? He's not the sort of masterbaker to lord his culinary awesomeness over us. He wants everyone to be as good as him in the kitchen; otherwise, what is the point!
The institutional bread makers then see what an amazing thing Jesus had going on, and they say, "Goddamnit, we can do that too, but we'll make it up so that people don't need to waste their time with baking and ovens and all that crap... And we'll make a profit doing it!" The rest is a bloody history of bland, mass-produced bread that rolls eagerly between thumb and forefinger into hard, tasteless pearls of spirituality. Personally, I think Jesus would be disappointed, particularly with the missionary method of opening the bag.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.