Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Starts Legal Fight Over Lindows Name
actappan writes: "Whether or not Lindows is real, this article on CNET News.com indicates that Microsoft intends to sue them into oblivion. Looks like supression remains the best way to promote innovation." cyberlawyer adds: "Some of you may remember that MS originally had great difficulty obtaining a trademark for the generic term 'Windows' but was eventually able to pay off those who had filed letters of protest to the granting of the mark including Sun, Oracle, and Borland. As a trademark lawyer I (unhappily) have to admit that Lindows probably has a weak case. Of course it's never too late to bring a cancellation action based on genericide ;-)" CodeWheeney contributes a link to coverage at Yahoo, too.
Looks like supression remains the best way to promote innovation.
:)
<tongue-in-cheek>
There's nothing quite as innovative as an operating system with the sole goal of reimplementing APIs from other operating systems until it can run their binaries.
</tongue-in-cheek>
I guess we're going to have to change the name of those holes that are full of glass in our walls, else we be sued by Microsoft.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
The name is not "Windows" but "Lindows" which gives the impression that it's not Windows but somehow connected to Windows.
Therefore I see no problem in the name, if Microsoft were truly believers of free competition and innovation they'd leave this alone. The only time to complain is if they try and con people into thinking this project has a connection to Microsoft.
I think windows should be a generic term anyway, whether I'm running Windows, X or BeOS I call those boxes on the screen 'windows', therefore any derivatives of the name should be allowed I think.
Ah, perfect. Don't change the name; just slap on the Aqua interface and ship it. This is the legal equivalent of a honeypot.
--saint
What if they change it to Winux? Or maybe Winux XP for that extra eXPerience?
Seriously though, when has a copyright included things that sound somewhat similar to their product?
Linus has just as good a case... Lindows starts with Lin, which is over half of the name Linux.
if Lindows was a product from a 3rd party company that ran only on Windows, MS would not try to sue them.
How about Windex?
Oh, wait...damn...
The name does nothing but associate their brand of Linux with the crappy, unstable, smoldering pile of dog crap that Windows is. Couldn't they think of a name less derogatory?
Something like:
National Socialist Party of Germany
They can sue for the name crumbs ;o) !
OK, Lindows probably won't ever be that big, so why does Microsoft care? does 4 letters mean that much to them? Personally, I dont't think we should give in and let Windows take over, but hey, I guess then Linus should sue next... Man, sometimes I can't figure out why Microsoft can't spend it's extra $32B better.
Microsoft is in grave danger of trademark dilution here. I mean, if they were a monopoly and the vast majority of OS users ran Windows, I wouldn't say, but as a fragile company with such a small name recognition, it's important that potential new customers don't get confused by a sneaky new startup who just wants to make a free buck out of a competitors honestly earned and well deserved success ...
So just change the name to L-Windows. If Micro$haft doesn't like it, then they'd have to take on MIT as well. I'd like to see them try.
It is a blatent copyright violation.
I've seen a lot of "IANAL"s discussing issues like this, but, for once, IAAL. (maybe IAAAL? I am actually a lawyer ;).
Anyways, Microsoft's claim is entirely legitimate. 'Lindows' is in the same "industry" as 'Windows', and is intentionally abusing the popularity of Windows for its own benefit.
This is the same as coming up with an electronics company called Panasoanic -- there is the potential for legitimate consumer confusion.
I know it's unpopular to side with Microsoft on something, but for once they're in the right here.
As a copyright/trademark lawyer, I'm hoping the courts make the right decision and force Lindows into a name change.
- Dave Brennins
http://www.davebrenninslaw.org
dave@davebrenninslaw.org
Why didn't The Open Group sue microsoft? Maybe they could add an X and call it Xlindows instead of Lindows since The Open Group doesn't seem to care.
... Lindows, Winamp, ... hey MS can sue IETF for using the word "windowing" in their protocols.
As always MS presents a good case for the "Might is right" school of thought.
Bitter and proud of it.
Yea sure, let's see, micro-soft, what an original name (back 20 years ago, micro processors and software words were commonly used by computer people a lot), as far as naming a product "windows" when the name was used in computer science a lot, well, that's also original too, now, let's see, oh yes, what about how microsoft stole the look and feel of apples mac and won a court battle concerning copying another product, okay, so it's year 2001, and microsoft has the nerve to go after lindows, very hypocritical
It's software that combines Linux and Windows without violating any trademark or copyright--although I bet Microsoft will sue at some point.
Guess they were right!
This is great publicity. So maybe they have to change the name. "Lindows" is a stupid name for a product, anyway.
Are my Window Managers infringing? Oh no! I'm so confused. Will Lindows blow like M$? Say it ain't so.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Just goes to show you that Microsoft hasn't learned a damn thing. I'm just at a loss for words to describe my disgust with Bill Gates and his "monopoly at all costs attitude". Seeing shit like this just pisses me off to no end....
$ rm -r windows
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
Or how about "Windux" ? Or "LinWin" ?
;-)
Why give Micro$oft an opening?
Unless, of course, it gets Lindows some much-needed publicity. Which isn't bad.
after looking in a local phone book I found several for last names that start with "Win" and "Lin". Microsoft will probably sue all people who's last name is "Winfree" because some people might think that these people give out copies of Windows for free. Microsoft will probably also sue all of the "Lindsay" people because the first part of thier last name is the same as the first part of the word "Lindows".
Well I hope Microsoft doesn't sue me for using the word Windows without asking for their permission!
"the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached to it." - Grandpa Simpson
I say that we fight Microsoft by refering to all OS's as 'Windows.'
Hopefully this will cause Microsoft to lose the trademark name 'Windows' because it will become generic from over usage.
-cibrPLUR
Given the terrible track record of Windows for everything that an operating system is supposed to do, you'd think M$ would be trying to DISTANCE themselves from the Windows name.
If coke started killing half the people who drank it, I doubt Coke (the company) would be branding it's soft drinks the same afterwards.
The Windows brand name doesn't mean shit, and M$ knows it. Just like the name Microsoft (how many times have you seen the name in an XBox ad? Zero times for me). This is just about making sure no alternative exists to Windows for running Windows based apps, by litigating to death companies trying to accomplish this.
Who the hell didn't see this one coming? If you didn't then you're a head-in-the-sand dreamer.
These guys might as well have named their company/product Microsauft. It's the same freakin' thing.
Shitty name anyways... it's an abomination.
-Russ
Me
"If they're alleging that people are going to be confusing Microsoft Corp. with Lindows.com, I think there's zero potential of that happening," he said. "If people are confused, just remember that we're not the convicted monopolist."
Murchinson said Microsoft considered legal action a last resort.
I'm still laughing!
On Murchinson's comment, it can't be a 'last' resort because they don't stop. When you play monopoly do you just plain give up?
I don't think suing them will be the last step - it's their first. They can sue easily, they have lawyers. It's like a Soviet Tank rush in Red Alert 2.. hit your enemy before they can build anything, then they can't get back at you; kill slowly from there.
Windows has become a product of it's own. Not an 'os' anymore. Instead of changing people to linux, change their flavor of windows.
Get your Unix fortune now!
This reminds me of the movie "Coming To America"
They're Mac Donalds; I'm Mic Dowell's.
They've got the Golden Arches; We've got the Golden Arcs.
They got the Big Mac; We got the Big Mic.
We both have 2 all beef pattties, special sauce, but they have a sesame seed bun. Our buns have no seeds.
I used to use Mac, but upgraded to Windows, and have since upgraded to Linux
Cuz I'm gonna sue RedHat over the Linux name, which sounds infringingly similar to Limpets, which is my trademark (The Incredible Mr. Limpet®).
Should that be a big amount or a small amount of life? I mean come on! "Get some life" ?
What should the software now be called?
WinLin? LinWin? Winux? Or maybe something random, like Porcupine?
Why doesn't the state of Mississippi sue the crap out of Microsoft? The abbreviation for Mississippi is MS, and so is Microsoft. Hmmmm. I bet the state would lose and have to change its name. I may be on to something here.
Think about it, Michael Mann could make The Insider, Part Two. Instead of taking on tobacco companies it would be about monopolizing software companies. Anthony Michael Hall can play Bill Gates again, and we can bring Russel Crowe back and have the two go at it in some kind of virtual reality gladiator thing.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
I think the Lindows people /knew/ from the beginning
that MS would spend /their money/ to give the
Lindows a little industry spotlight ;-) Kudos guys.
What f*ing box!?!?
Microsoft contends the company, which plans to formally release its product next year, purposely is trying to confuse Lindows with Windows.
That's odd. I thought they ripped off the "Lin" in Lindows from Linux. In fact, because it's the first half of the word, I'd say Linus Thorvalds has the better case.
Now, if only Linus could sue these guys for the grand total of, say, a dozen doughnuts, and beat Microsoft to the punch on the whole trademark-stealing-thing, maybe we could get these boys off the hook?
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Already attacking the competition before the competition even exits the gate.
Must be Microsofts new strategy, kill all companies who have threatening names!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Call it "Winux" instead
;)
Adobe was able to make Killustrator change its name to Kontour. Unfortunately, if that went through, I don't see much hope for Lindows...
...is that illegal, too? So. In other words; everything that sounds like something else, is illegal? Well. Ok. But still illegal when the two "things" are connected to each other? I mean, "Lindows" just means that it's got something to do with Windows.
Jeez. Microsoft never stop surprising me.
Cthulhu Saves.
"We're not asking the court to stop the company from making their products"
So what they're saying is, we don't care if you clone Windows, just don't use a name that sounds like it?
Great!
The name Lindows isn't that big a deal, there are plenty of names to go around (Lindoors?). However, if the OS became popular, Microsoft may have pulled out some legal trump card saying "Sorry, you can't copy Windows/the API/the look 'n' feel/the BSOD. Stop the project now." They're basically giving up that right if all they're worried about now is a trademark dispute.
If I were one of the founders, I would have considered that this would happen. This should be a planned for contingency. Of course, the planning would have to be in secret, 'cause an evidence of willful abuse would trigger punitive damages. Ain't the law grand?
The alternative is to roll over and play dead, go out of business and sell their IP back to the founders who could start up again named "Winux".
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
-Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
Actually, this makes perfect sense. They're basically doing this as an arguement against the monopoly charge. A real threat to the way they do business. of course, it's just a technicality that the software in question isn't available for sale yet.
Not saying i agree with it though. And as logical as it seems, if they win, they're proving that they stifle competition through any means available.
The suit asks the court to order the start-up to stop using the Lindows name and also seeks unspecified monetary damages
How can they sue for money? has Lindows actually damaged them in someway? If they want them to change the name, fine, let them try, but how much can they really ask for?
Maybe i'll sue all the Jason's in the world for using MY name. No, i'll sue anyone who's name ends with -son. get them to change their names AND give me money for my effort.
How about those who call it Lye-nucks? Then they'd pronounce this Line-does. No confusion there. MS doesn't have a case.
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
Ok, if there's a 1 letter substitution between Windows and Lindows, what about X Windows? For somebody that doesn't know what X WIndows is, the two can seem quite confusing.
But I thought that X Windows could run Windows stuff.
What a sad, sad world.
Josh Crawley
NT is a trademark of Northern Telecom.
With all that lawsuits from/for Microsoft, mabye we will see a "Microsoft DOJ" soon...
Speaking on the topic, M$ seems to just sue their "potential competitors", in fact small companies with (for most) great ideas. Theses companies can't afford the costs for the lawsuit and are forced to close. After that, M$ stole a good idea (mabye from that company), put the Microsoft name on it and sell it.
M$ is going to be everywhere (this is their dream). From PCs to game consoles, telephones, etc. I expect TVs soon (Heh, they should try vacuum cleaner... a good way to suck...). Can we call that "monopoly" ? Will they sue the dictionnaries because there is the words "Windows" and "office" in it ? Do people will wake up when they will live on planet "Windows Earth" ?
Lindows = Windows + Linux
Linux = Linus + Unix??
Else where I found scribbled:
Windows = Dos + MacOS,(you know adding graphical "windows" to a command prompt)
Come on really... You can't make anything in the computer world without basing it off of something else. And if Microsoft gets upset in this, so they'll probably win. Lindows loses it's identity of being Windows-like, and it won't sell, destroying a competitor.
Microsft is keeping the "Windows From Linux" by using a common term in any GUI. They didn't invent the Windows that they use, so why should they be allowed to prevent derivates of Windows?
This reminds me of Eddie Murphy's coming to America and that guy who's hamberger resturant was named "McDowells"
"See, they have the "Big Mac" we have the "Big Mic". They have Golden Arches, we have Golden Arcs."
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
let the evil bastards sue, it only makes them look bad
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
That was supposed to have a tag like:
(lessthan)newbie(greaterthan) But I thought that X Windows could run Windows stuff.
I specified for it to be Plain old text, thinking it would ignore tags. Guess not.
Similarly, Microsoft Corp. has decided to sue the cattle industry for allowing their cows to graze in meadows[tm], and the sun for casting shadows[tm].
If they do not actively defend their trademark, they will lose it.
Xerox failed to sue when people infringed on their trademark so a judge decided they no longer had the trademark.
Okay, so that means I'm not allowed to make any operating system component with a name ending in "indows"? This is almost as bad as McDonalds trademarking the "Mc" prefix. AAARRRRGGH!
Music speeds up when you yawn, but does not change pitch.
For $99 users can obtain the LindowsOS Preview Release along with the promise that Lindows.com will work hard to give consumers real value.
$99 for a preview release!! who do they think they are, Microsoft? They also go on to say that it won't run _all_ Windows software and they will keep a database of known working software titles. This thing just sounds like linux+wine.. oh boy.
check that ultimate board page!
:)
michael robertson has a comment on december 10th
and then all comments are from a user called "reply"..
they're mostly posted on the same day..
they pretend to be from lost of various people
praising the upcoming system..
if you check reply's profile
the email is "comments@lindows.com"..
i have not seen as ridiculous in a long time!
/// evilloop.com
There's no such thing as X Windows. It's X or the X Window System.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Think about "Lineoleum" the vinyl floor covering. Lineoleum use to be a brand name for one specifc companies vinyl floor covering. Over time, lineoleum became so synonomus with vinyl floor covering (much because the company that manufactured lineoleum was pretty much the main producer of vinyl floor coverings) that the Lineoleum trademark was declared public domain. Now a bunch of companies make vinyl floor covering and call it 'lineoleum'
Kersoene, Asprin and Heroin are other examples of trademarked names released into the public domain - note that it is not because they expired but because the trademark name became so synonymous with the product it would be impossible to compete with one who holds that trademark. I have seen (from a marketing management course) Xerox internal documents stressing company employees to "Never refer to making copies as 'Xeroxing'" as Xerox is afraid to lose their trademark as well. Kleenex, Band Aids and Q-Tips all have the same issues, look at a pack of Band Aids - They are "Band Aids brand Adhesive Bandages" Does Microsoft market it's product as Microsoft Windows Brand Operating System?
The point I am making (or trying) is not that "Windows" as a name should mean all operating systems, but that the common person, would hear "Windows" and think of a computer operating system. Linux has Windows, Mac has Windows - why can't they just be called "Windows" as in - "hey are you running Linux Windows?" "No I am running Mac Windows but I want o upgrade to a new open source type of windows"
Jesse Wolfe Sr. Manager Systems Integration
Wind'ohs: The Simpsons had it right.
Sindows: The "adult" operating system
Gindows: We'll replace Solitare with Gin, they'll never know the difference.
Bindows: The whole recycling idea just didn't fly
Losedows: Lose "dows" files, Lose "dows" Mp3s
Windoughs: The day the Pillsbury Dough Boy cried
Yindohs: It just wasn't the same without Yang
And an honorable mention by
L-Box: From the makers of Lindows.
X Windows is not a registered trademark. According to a quick search at the U.S Patent and Trademark Office. It was abandonned in 1992, after having been filed on June 10, 1991 by Intilligent Decisions, Inc.
it is not the final determiner in court. Even a well known mark may become a generic term. For instance, Bayer lost the mark to "asprin." "Kleenex" became a generic term. Microsoft can show their trademark registeration form until they are blow in the face, but, to their disadvantage, the more widely used the term becomes, the more likely Microsoft will lose the mark.
Microsoft dug their own hole right off the bat. A good test: "What is [it] called?" If the mark is [it] then it is likely to become a generic term. Trademark attorneys have done a great job applying this test by combining additional terms to a potentially generic mark. For instance, perhaps Apple wanted to call their notebooks, "Books." Instead, they merely attached the "i" and the mark became unique.
Windows? Wthelse are these things to be called? That's generic. And Microsoft has lost any unique attributes to the mark.
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
This is a very general post about trademark/name law; I'll leave the details to the /. lawyers out there.
Having the exact same name is not always automatically a trademark infringement; it depends on the nature of your business, the uniqueness of the name, and whether your product could reasonably be confused with the product of the other guy.
I assume MS's lawers are going after the fact that Lindows is offering a product that is likely to be confused with an Operating System. If Lindows was a hamburger chain the suit wouldn't fly.
Examples:
Apple (Records of Beatles fame) and Apple (Computer); Royal this and Royal that; and as someone pointed out NT (Microsoft) and NT (Northern Telecom, which we know know as NorTel); you could probably add "XP" everything lately.
Apple Computer actually had an out-of-court settlement with Apple Records agreeing not to enter the "music" business. At the time Apple was a small company and a little gun-shy about being threatened with a lawsuit by the Beatles, of all people, so they came to an agreement instead. When the time came for multimedia on the desktop, they just went ahead; Apple Records declined to pursue it.
Why? Well look at his website and see why.
Gates is GOD
Hes the true founder of open source.
The creator of the GUI.
The creator of the first web browser.
The creator of the instant messager.
The creator of the word proessor.
The creator of C++, Visual Basic, J++.
The man who literally fuels the success of the world wide web.
The man who helped steve jobs create MacOS.
The Creator of DOS.
And Finally the man who created (x)indows.
So before you go starting any corperation which steals from this mans innovation, think twice, or you might just get sued.
Open Source people, watch out, because you are next. Just wait for the launch of Microsoft Linux and the original founder of open source Bill Gates will take Linux as hes done with everything else into the mainstream.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Coke isn't marketed as "Coca Cola cola flavored beverage". It's much more common to refer to a soft drink as 'Coke' than for a normal person to think 'operating system' when hearing 'Windows'.
Coke hasn't lost their trademark, and neither will Microsoft.
You guys have got it all wrong. This is the best thing that ever happened to Lindows.
Until now, I'd guess that about 1% of the computer using population has heard of Lindows. What better publicity is there than getting into a lawsuit with Microsoft? Making CNET and ZDNET headlines is a dream come true for them.
This lawsuit also legitimizes the development work they've done as far as the public is concerned. After all, Microsoft wouldn't sue them if they weren't a real threat.
And finally, they're going to be forced to ditch the knock-off name. That surely wasn't helping them any.
The actual details on who stole from who are sketchy. The way i understand it is that Apple (read: Steve Jobs) gave quite a bit of stock to Xerox in exchange for using the GUI. I've also heard that they demonstrated the GUI to Steve on a tour of one of their research facilities, and since he wasn't under an NDA, he snagged it. Of course, Apple claims to have approved and tested their GUI on the Lisa comps 3 months prior to Jobs' visit, and that xerox didn't even invent the GUI and mouse idea - Douglas Englebart did.
Atari supposedly liscensed the GUI from Digital Research. Apple promply sued DR for this, and so their GUI was neutered so that you could have a max of two windows open at once.
Take that for what it's worth.
before the windows was built :-)
Minor point:
Lineoleum refers to a flooring made from flaxseed (linseed oil). It is, as far as I know, still a tradname. The vinyl flooring, generically referred to as "Lino", is a different product, but has inhereted the generic term which is now commonly applied to rolled floorcovering.
"There's no such thing as bad publicity."
:)
Use poopy name, get sued, settle out of court, change to better name, use court publicity to sell product....
Sounds like a great plan to me
http://wsulug.org
Many people have been saying that scince M$ and Lindows are in the same market, Lindows is wrong. I see a distinction in the market, but even if there wasn't, Lindows looks encredibly different from Windows. Sure it SOUNDS similar, but that's not the issue in copywrites. To the AAAL's out here: Lawers stink.
I'm not that upset though, because I didn't like the name in the first place, just like KIllustrator, though Lindows at least doesn't contain the entire other product name.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I wonder how long it will be before the first post comes along from a 14 year old kneejerk antiwindows fanatic that says.. "IANAL, but Lindows *DOES* have a good case..."
Coke has competition that makes it clear that Coke is not a soft drink, Coke just has a more effective marketing campaign. Maybe Coke is one syllable and Pepsi is too much for a lazy person to mutter.
Windows has a ton of market share - the point is that to the common person, they would just think Windows is that thing on the comuter that makes it work. You make a good point, and my argument is definitely in the theoretical range - the word Windows would need to replace "Operating Systems" in our vernacular for my argument to amke any sort of sense - I was hoping a so called IAAL would comment on it.
Jesse Wolfe Sr. Manager Systems Integration
Of course we know that Lindows is not officially connected with Microsoft ... but remember, 99.9% of the public (and even most IT majors, according to that article from a couple days back) thinks that Linux is made by a company of the same name. Most people outside the Linux community would be confused into thinking that Lindows is either:
a) Microsoft's version of Linux
b) Linux for Microsoft Windows
c) Microsoft Windows for Linux
or some other permutation thereof that implies an official connection with/endorsement by Microsoft.
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
MS probably has concluded they need to protect their tradename. A lot of posters have pointed out situations where a company has failed to enforce it's rights to names; if you "let it slide" then you lose some of your right to the exclusive use of the name.
Coke is still coke, because they sue anybody who tries to copy the name. Same with Xerox, they vigorously protect the name. Others who let it slide a little lost the right to keep the name exclusive.
I'm no friend of MS, but these kinds of annoying legal actions are pretty common now that most companies have seen what happens if you don't vigorously enforce your trade property.
Lineoleum is no longer a registered trade name. Check out the query on "linoleum" from the US Trademark Electronic Search System
Jesse Wolfe Sr. Manager Systems Integration
was trademarked? by who, Pepsi?
MS has always made a very big deal out of calling the product "Microsoft NT". They've also hounded members of the press about this, and they get their panties in a twist when someone refers to it as simply "NT".
Firstly, the Lindows name helps consumers, so MS is going to have trouble getting anything buy on the "it confuses consumers" line. 99% of all consumers have heard of Windows and have heard of Linux...hence, it is only natural that when they year Lindows, they will think "a Linux compatable with Windows". Consumers have rights too, not just corporations. In fact, as I see trademark -- and all other intellectual property laws -- defined, it was created to help consumers differentiate between products easily. A trademark applies to the SPECIFIC WORD or piece or logo.
Furthermore, MS has no cause to gripe -- they shouldn't have ever gotten a trademark on the name "Windows" in the first place. Every GUI uses Windows, yet somehow MS got this generalized trademark which is a generality for every GUI in existence...one of their basis' for unfair competition.
I don't feel one bit sorry for companies that "trademark" every day words used, and then later gripe when someone encroaches a little -- i.e., Windows, Apple, etc.
Trademark laws need to be irradicated as we know them. But the concept may for consumer benefit -- trademark is the one form of intellectual property which is OK, if applied correctly. But its being misapplied today. Trademarks should not be looked at as "a right a company has to wield a word or logo". They should be looked at as tools by which consumers can easily differentiate between various brands.
On the other hand, perhaps the elimination of trademarks would be a good thing for consumers. Trademarks are what keep monopolies in business and prevent upcoming businesses from starting up. People buy IBM computers just by the name...but no one would buy a Sys computer by the name, despite the fact that Sys computers are superior to most anything else on the market.
Trademarks evoke a bunch of ridiculous fallacies, which are commonly seen and avoided in other situations. Trademark is a "attack the messenger, not the message" type thing. Its like when Michael Jordan -- love him though most of us do -- advertises Hanes. So what? A famous person likes Hanes. That says nothing about their superiority over other underwear. Or its like when you hear two people speaking on TV, and one of them is a politician everyone's heard of, while another is some guy you've never heard. Despite what they're saying, people will agree with the well-known politician.
My point is, ideas, products, statements, etc, should be judged on their merits alone -- not on who came up with them (in the case of ideas), who makes them (in the case of products), or who says them (in the case of statements). Trademarks reinforce lazy thinking, whereby we judge things based mostly on their sponsor, and not on their merits.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Linux + Windex = Lindex?
Yes, washing Windows off the face of the earth.
Murchinson said Microsoft considered legal action a last resort.
"Clearly we prefer to work with them to resolve this problem voluntarily. Their product name infringes on our trademark," Murchinson said. "We hope they will work with us to resolve this problem without the need for legal action."
Sobbing, he continued: "Oh why do they Force us to sue them! It hurts me right here, (Murchinson placed his hand over his heart and looks to the heavens) whenever we have to sue them."
Murchinson then, with the tears still streaming down his cheeks and shaking his head, pushed a lonely red button on his desk.
Moments later, cruel hordes of fur clad lawyers on enormous horses, gravely swinging rusted and blood stained battle axes, thrusting their hardened leather shields toward the brooding skies, with packs angry mastifs biting and growling at their hideously spurred heals, rode ravenous toward yet another glorious conquest.
Murchinson listened as the horrible clamor of the viciously armed force recedeed in to the wind. Finally he concluded the interview, "if only they hadn't forced me to do this, if only we could have worked something out..."
Thinking of that poor man, Murchinson, nearly brings tears to my eyes as well. It's just tragic how he so truly didn't want to sue them, but had to... sigh... It just breaks my heart.
I find it infinitely hilarious that Sun and Oracle would be against someone trademarking a common english word. Shoot, throw Apple, Yahoo, Excite, Time, and Amazon in the mix and I'd fall down on the floor and roll in the shear hypocracy of it all.
You really have to hand it to Michael Robertson, first he's sued by the RIAA and the Big 5 while at MP3.Com and now MS comes after him.
It appears MS has made a tactical error however, at least MP3.Com had money in the bank to pay the settlements. Lindows is just getting off of the ground. Another one to watch is windux.com
This is called trademark dilution - and the way you fight it is by obsessively combating anyone who markets using your trademark. Like they are doing. Also, while to many people "windows" means "computer", anyone who knows what an OS is knows that Windows is a specific OS, and nobody I've ever met uses it as a generic OS term.
Lindows, (www.lindows.com) has a name that in itself is genius. It's software that combines Linux and Windows without violating any trademark or copyright--although I bet Microsoft will sue at some point.
PC Magazine - John C. Dvorak - October 26, 2001
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_news_news.php
This whole situation really is comical.
BETHLEHEM (AP): The Christian Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, announced plans to sue Microsoft for using the name "XP" for its new operating system.
"The monogram of My Name, formed of the two first letters when written in Greek, "X" and "P" [Chi and Rho], has been in use for well over a thousand years in numerous countries. I am therefore insisting that Microsoft cease using "XP" on its products, as that is tantamount to Taking My Name In Vain."
Added Christ, "I mean it. Don't make me come down there..."
I'm a bloodsucking fiend! Look at my outfit!
This actually raises a point - it's pretty common to call Windows apps (especially free or shareware ones) Winwhatever. Even more so with Mac apps - MacWrite, MacDraw, etc. If MS has failed to pursue these applications in the past, that might be a good defense for the lindows team. Not that the little cheaters deserve it (note post above about them seeding own message boards)
Its like /. in a way. Every day I can log in and read about how pathetic Microsoft and Apple are, even though linux desktop apps are five years behind them. Or you can read about how stooopid Sun and IBM are and maybe if they just removed all of the cool features from their OSs and made them as lame as linux how much further we'd be ahead.
But wait, linux is open source...yet have even 1% of the /. audience ever looked at the kernel source??? Would they even know where to find it?
welcome to the american lawsuit industry.
this article on CNET News.com indicates that Microsoft intends to sue them into oblivion.
Umm, no...
Fucking slashdot editors... I'm through. I contribute to slashdot no more. This is my last post.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Conducting additional research on how Microsoft's mark for "Windows" may be generic, I ran across a list of "Trademarks That Have Become Generic." The list includes terms "held by the Trademark Office or a court to be incapable of serving as trademarks for the goods and services they named because they had become, in the minds of consumers, generic terms for those products or services."
So, the test would not be whether Microsoft or a particular judge considers that a mark is a generic term, but if the mark becomes a generic term in the minds of consumers. Perhaps a party could present evidence such as surveys or the online and published usage of a term in a generic sense as a means to describe the thing?
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
In those heady days of mid 1980s, Apple was the company that was succeeding by frivolous lawsuits as opposed to actual innovations (what modern computer company does this remind you of? Look at the borg on the main slashdot page for a clue).
The Atari ST was indeed a big embarassment for Apple. What revealed the problem was a certain Mac emulator for the ST. On this Mac software emulator, Mac software ran FASTER on the ST than it did on a Mac with the same speed of 68000 processor. What was Apple putting in the Mac's ROM chips, sawdust?
History was repeated a couple of years ago with the eOne. This PC from Emachines looked just like the then-hot iMac. The embarassment to Apple was that it cost half as much, was twice as fast, twice as much memory, etc etc etc than the iMac. Thanks to yet another frivolous lawsuit, the eOne is gone. The design revolution started by iMac has faded from the computer scene, but still lingers in Foreman grills and staplers.
Everything people hate Microsoft for, Apple is far worse: the bullying attorneys, the crap crippled overpriced OS software, the monopoly on the hardware platform. If Jobs had his way the entire world would be spending hours just to find simple things on their machines like "off button", "on button" , "eject button" instead of just the few fooled Mac users.
The difference is that somehow Microsoft dominates, and everything thinks it sucks. No one uses Mac, and everyone thinks it is "cool".
Hmmm...funny thing that microsoft has a campaign on their website against the DOJ for inhibiting on their "FREEDOM TO INNOVATE",...if that is so,..then why do they do just that?
All answers can be forwarded to the contact information below.
Microsoft Freedom to Innovate Network
16625 Redmond Way
Ste, M-447
Redmond, WA
98052-9724
email at
msfin@microsoft.com
call us at
1-888-321-3999
They are currently amassing a list of soon to be defendants using the popular search engine google, It seems their MSN search site was recently rooted due to another security hole in their software.
The CEO was quoted as saying,"Last time I checked we were still using the US judicial system, where any one can sue for any reason, and the fattest wallet wins. Now, if you will excuse me, I have to get back to writing my antitrust remedy."
How about they call it GNU/Lindows?
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
There is no such thing as X Windows
man x
Does anyone else remember Winblows '98? It was a parody of Windows 98 with a virtual pet Bill Gates and funky shaped windows if I remember.... I don't remember Microsoft bitching about them... Just a thought that it may be past precidence or something.
~Mike
A big enough hammer fixes *anything*
Why not change their name to Licrosoft?
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Rudimentary, unintuitive hardware. Pinhole eject? Hidden power buttons?
Pay twice as much for something slower.
Hardly any software out for it. Really. This is one of the main reasons I abandoned it.
Hardly any peripherals, add-ons, etc. and what you find is "quaint" and perveresely non-standard.
In one of its spectatular bonehead moves, Apple for years intentionally limited the number of stores you could find Macs in. So they are hard to find.
In another bonehead move, they killed the cloning program. Since Apple can't do hardware, letting others do the hardware would have meant big growth for the Mac OS, perhaps.
Objectively, it is quite inferior, outside of a few niches, such as desktop publishing.
I love it when MS does something like this, even in a case like this where the real lawyers say they have a strong case. Why? It makes MS look bad, and it gets the /. crowd whipped up into a foamy mess. I just love the "IANAL, but MS should be nuked from orbit" flavor of so many of these posts.
I think the guys who invented extreme programming should file a claim against Microsoft for infringing on their "XP" trademark.
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
As a certified Old Fart(tm), I remember when J&J had to enforce this on themselves. In their own commercials, they changed "I am stuck on Band-Aid 'cuz Band-Aid's stuck on me" to the less rhythmic "I am stuck on Band-Aid brand 'cuz Band-Aid's stuck on me" (and no, for some reason, they didn't add "brand" to the second reference to Band-Aid).
IIRC, brand names are adjectives, not nouns, which is why there's no such thing as a Frisbee--it's a Frisbee [brand] flying disc.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I was in the middle of Scrabble brand crossword game.
God damn Microsoft! Why can't they leave the Linux community bloody well alone. Screw you Bill Gates! The word monopoly is an understatement for this Microsoft. And what the hell, its not like there aren't already a million other programs out there with names similar to "Windows(tm)". XWindows for example... I mean give me a freakin break... What a joke... It is flattering that Microsoft is scared, but they really don't stand a chance against the Linux community... By the time they are done with this lawsuit their name will simply have been dragged through the mud yet again... All in all it comes out favorable for the Linux community... The media, in particular CNN, always seem to have good things to say about Linux... so basically if Microsoft continues with this lawsuit I personally think it will do them more harm then good... Microsoft thinks they can attack us head on like they do to any normally company... What they don't realize is that we are larger than one company... We are a whole community... You can attack one of us but you can't attack us all... We will win, you will lose... at the end of the day Linux will be on every desktop, server, PDA, and game console... What will Windows be on... nothing! ha... so there...
Um, do you REALLY think a placed called "McRonald's" would stay in business for more than a month? McDonald's has EARNED it's place.
Besides, if you wanted to really make a PROPER comparison you would have to talk about a software company that chose the name "Lycrasoft" or "Microloft", or something of the sort. "Lindows" slightly changed a PRODUCT NAME, not the name of a whole company.
BTW, YOU are the IDIOT. Bye bye.
I think that this plays right into Lindows.com's strategy. They were probably hoping to get sued by Microsoft, get tons of press, get to take shots at Microsoft in the press, and get to be hailed by all as the underdog.
They probably would have used something like Winux if they hadn't wanted to be a target. How could they not be advised by someone that this would be trademark infringement when naming their company?
$45 per U Colocation Special
Use poopy name, get sued, settle out of court, change to better name, use court publicity to sell product....
:)
Sounds like a great plan to me
Yeah, if your company is Sun / Intel / IBM or some other corporate giant.
Does Lindows have the money to settle?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
(Score:5, Troll)
Slashdot is the most sensical place on the Internet.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Sounds like a company that makes sextoys.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Windows is a trademark and the name Lindows implies that it is somehow related. I think Microsoft has every right to make them change their name. I'm sure McDonalds would not allow you to start a burger joint with the name MacDonalds.
Hopefully the Linux community will understand that Microsoft has a point, and that it has nothing to do with softare.
Milena, Widow of Connar has sent us:
Death sued for sounding too close to Microsoft's flagship product's name.
Steeve Ballmer (CEO): A lot of people on the internet do jokes about blue screen of DEATH, when people die, we hear about Widows, people KILL their systems after installing non-certified drivers, DEADLY VIRUS are crippling our systems, all this will change. You know how our stupid our userbase is, If people are stupid enough to buy an OS for 300$ instead of going for an OEM version, these same people could be associating death with our flagship product, Windows, we fought really hard to get the trademarks for that name, heck, I even had to look like a complete monkey to get public awareness on our side, Death will either have to cease to exist or change some of it's naming convention. Microsoft will fight death.... to the death if we have to god damn it!.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
God, I just couldn't stop laughing. I must be pretty tired. And drunk and high on crack.
This post definitely deserves my +2 bonus, btw.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Make me hurl.....
"And today's Sesame Street is brought to by the letters "X"* and "p"* the number "1"*..."
*The Alphabet and Numeric Symbols are a trademark of the Microsoft Coporation.
Leather and Weather?
Lizard and Wizard?
Ledge and Wedge?
Leek and Week?
Lake and Wake?
Lane and Wane?
Life and Wife?
Line and Wine?
Link and Wink?
.. and I can assure you, the general public can too.
That was the beauty in Microsoft's original claim on the trademark - they were innovative enough to see the marketing advantage, that the X consortium ignored. After making "Windows" ubiquitous, what purchasing agent is going to assume that there may be other offerings?
Or Honda vs. Hyunday?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I'm just wondering if anyone else noticed this guy's username was 'gayrod'
Assuming you really are a very 'out-and-proud' homosexual lawyer, and not just some sort of troll trying to see how high he can get his post moderated and pointing to an unresolved DNS entry in user info with the word 'law' in it as your 'website'....
Then I'd have to say that while Microsoft may have a case, their trademark really shouldn't have been valid because it's obviously a pretty common word, even in computer science ('close that window'). I had always assumed that Microsoft's trademark was more along the lines of 'Microsoft windows' the way they do with "Microsoft Word", and "Microsoft Access"
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
#ifdef CONSPIRICY_THEORY
Wait 'til they cave, and watch the obscenely monopolistic company (OMC--my new TLA, but you're
free to use it) to pick up the pieces......
#endif
Well, normally I would say that if they had an ugly website then they probably couldn't afford to fight Microsoft. But upon visitation of lindows.com I think it probably was 'professionally' designed (as in they paid a lot of money for it) but by someone who wouldn't know a good design aesthetic if... I don't know something.
Anyway, these windows people should change their name because its stupid if nothing else.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
A lot of companies market things as Windows. The things on the side of my house are "windows". My car also has "Windows". What about drive-thru "windows".
Lindows could say that they only share 4 letters, because the other 3 come from Linux.
I should have trademarked "I" as a company name. Then I could sue over the ipaq, etc. Is this stupid or what!!!
Since M$FT has the $$$ they will probably win. Hopefully Liberty Alliance, POSIX compatible operating systems, etc. take over and we don't have to worry about M$FT's shit!
Maybe the XFL should sue MSFT over the X-Box name....
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Should be eLindows; after all, with two different letters there is no chance for confusion. If that isn't different enough they can append .com (or better yet, .tv) to the end.
"I'm running eLindows.tv on my computer; it's great! I can run Mikrosoft Office XB, Itneret Exploder, and, uhmm, all those Linux programs I run too!"
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
They are just like the kuomintang. They should learn from history. They are going to be just as screwed, in the end the only place their software will run is on Taiwanese knockoffs.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
No, they wouldn't. The English rules for pronunciation indicates that the 'i' in 'Linux' should be long because the 'u' comes after only one consonant. In the case of 'Lindows', the 'i' is separated from the next vowel, 'o', by two consonants, making it short rather than long.
Oh, go on, check out my job.
Maybe the Kompany can sue all the "C"ompany's out there for violating their trademark.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
If they change their name, who will remember who they were?
"WonderSoft? Oh yeah, they were Lindows - they lost a court battle with microsoft, I better get me some of that!"
Mmmmmmm
How might Microsofts NON-prosecution of such software as WinZip reflect on this case?
I've often read that in order to maintain a copyright, one must actively defend it. Of such things are MacDonald's "cease and desist" cases against restaurants in Scotland run by someone with the last name of MacDonald.
Such non-prosecution of a known commercial company using just such a partial name link-in can only damage their case in prosecuting someone else who only proposes to also use some letters to do the same thing.
Thoughts?
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
I can see it now... Startup company goes hmmm, publicity, publicity - I don't wanna pay for it.
That's what I'll do! I'll piss of MessySoft and eventually cave to their lawyers to get my product announced.
Great gambit - 'specially if they change their name to : "The Company Formally Known As Lindows" (TCFKAL - So the acronym's not so great... )
from "aozilla"
/. mainly the submitter. As aozilla found out...welcome to the club...after it hits you repeatedly you will learn...or not)
/. is:
Fucking slashdot editors... I'm through. I contribute to slashdot no more. This is my last post.
reply to from bankey:
Repeat after me:
Italics is the submitter.
Would you rather the editors alter your words?
Thus spake the Moose:
I only have to say, the one article out of 30 that was accepted was of the title: Microsoft article on Salon.com those were my words.
and the "this article on salon.com" were mine as well. Everything after that I was *grilled*, *filleted* and *slow roasted* for words that were not mine. (I said "interesting idea"..editors says "extensions of MS further monopoly"...granted it was alluded to in the article, but WTF. For the most part, editors don't get grilled on
Clearly "bankey" has no clue what an "editor" does...edits, mangles, destroys, clarifies, distills and after all that puts all the above adjectives in a blender and then diseminates it to a readership.
All I can say to ya'll submitting to
If your article is not thought provoking, inflammitory, the cause of a flame war, MS bashing, Linux bashing or in any way counter to any type of groupthink, RI/MP aa hating...well, I seriously doubt you will utter the words "What was I thinking/smoking" when I submitted *that*.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
X.
Although the name is really XFree86 the common name is X-Windows. How many OSs now run X-Windows? How many platforms?
Can you say damn near all of 'em boys and girls? I knew that you could.
MS has failed to vigorously defend the name Windows. I think the case could be made they've lost rights to that trademark.
When I was out at MS, I gave them a "tanker". Yep, I went into the bathroom, took the top off the back of a toilet, and took a big stinky shit in it. I urge you to take a tour and do the same. Eat lots of fiber beforehand so it will get stuck in there. I find that Roman Meal 12 grain bread works well for making it nice and firm.
This is also called an "upper decker" sometimes. So, give your love to MS in the form of a big turd.
vaporware a generic term as well? sorry had to say it. =)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
The English language is solely defined by your personal predilection.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It might confuse Microsoft windows users, true. That's not something I'd want to be arguing in court as a GoodThing(tm) however.
Just copy the successful use of "Win-" that is practiced by many to assure consumers that the product will run on Microsoft Windows.
WinLin
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
In times like these I often find it helpful to directly reverse the situation to eliminate any bias:
For example, what if Microsoft created and was marketing a product called Minux, which was intended to provide the same functionality as Linux and used unique only to Linux technical and architectural concepts?
Would this not be infringement? Microsoft is dead-on here, and although the Windows trademark is ambigious, you all should remember that it was granted in the first place because the name 'Windows' is in fact unique to the computer industry (whereas a company selling Windows it wouldn't be). When you think of Windows and a computer, you always think of Microsoft.
The real question remains -- is this an attempt to gain the needed press via the Microsoft hypemobile or does the former MP3.com CEO really think he has a chance of winning ala Napster? His remark in the article regarding Microsoft's guilt didn't seem to bright and didn't address the real technical question of is it in fact infringement.
We'll have to see on this one, although I do think this will be good to get Linux in the public eye again and possibly get some major userbases/corporations to look seriously at Linux as a viable alternative.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
Microsoft claims that "windows" is special and can be trademarked. On the other hand, they claimed (but eventually lost in court) that "Internet Explorer" is a generic term. They claimed that the word "internet" is too generic.
This is a very good point. I think the moderators should mark the above post up.
The sublties of the law an the fine points of etymologies is unimportant compared to the fact That microsoft will crush another organization with just the threat of legislation. Does anyone think this will ever get to trial? It won't - Microsoft could care less about the name- They are just sending a message- don't intrude on their turf.
That microsoft held a trademark not on "Windows", but on "Microsoft Windows", since windows is both so common and the idea of a windowing interface preceded their use of it anyway (and was so common to refer to the interface type in this industry). Now, if this is the case, and the product is not "Microsoft Lindows", would there still be a problem?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
The problem with MS's claim, as has been pointed out by others, is that MS has failed to enforce past infringements.
This puts them in the position of having to justify this as opposed to past infringements.
This, in turn, raises the spectre of monopoly.
This is just like AOL's claim that Aimster is trying to use the term "Aim" in its name to associate itself with AIM. Since I used to work at Aimster I can tell you that this was certainly the case. The name Aimster was chosen, as one would have guessed in August 2000 when it was released, because it was intended to be a combination of AIM (AOL Instant Messenger) and Napster. Then when it became apparent that AOL was going to pursue this as a trademark infringement and try to get the aimster.com domain, John Deep came up with this crazy story that it's called Aimster because "Aimster" is a nickname for girls named Amy. Then he decided that his daughter (Madeline) would change her name to Aimee.
It's obvious (to me, at least) that "Lindows" is intended to associate the product with both Linux and Windows. It is a good name for the product (though perhaps more than a bit tacky), much as Aimster was a good name for Aimster back in the day. However, the cleverness of the name has the downside that they're also piggybacking on all the work Microsoft has done to establish and protect the Windows trademark, so they'll probably lose, and I think it's probably in their best interest to simply change their product and domain to something else. That's what I suggested to John about Aimster, but of course I was ignored.
Then again, Michael Robertson isn't quite as naive as John, and has a lot more credibility and business sense, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about at all.
rooooar
Normally, you would be right, except for one thing: MS has let this sort of infringement fly in the past.
So now they're in the position of justifying action now.
This raises the question of monopoly.
Cant put the words "win" and "Linux" together without evoking snickers from people content to live their lives in reality.
There is something to the fact that it might cause confusion, leading people to think its more officially tied to Windows than it is.
http://news.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011125/wl/imdf25112 001083310a.html
They also have a trademark on "Anti-Trust".
Why else do you all think they are getting no punishment?
But the first term they trademarked is "Piracy"
Yeah, please put a bullet in the head of each ignorant bastard who can't spell "favour".
How about calling it "Defenestration"?
Nah, too subtle.
--LP
In Trademark law, a company is requires to use it's bran as an adjective.
Examples:
Spam brand Lunch Meat.
Fritos brand Corn Chips.
Chevrolet Motor Division.
By failing to use their trademark in this manor, Microsoft is treading on thin ice.
From our frinds at Hormel:
Proper Trademark Use Guidelines. http://www.spam.com/hp/hp_lg.htm
Always put the trademark SPAM in all capital letters.
Follow SPAM with "Luncheon Meat" or other descriptor. Remember, a trademark is a formal adjective and as such, should always be followed by a noun.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Hellooo McFly, THINK! Why don't they just pick something like "Omega" or "Jupiter" or "Stallion".. sheesh, any of those names would be better. Practically anything would be better than the names made up. And Microsoft couldn't touch them (or Linus for that matter)
Feh, no wonder g**ks are always getting sued.
..For everytime Microsoft sued someone..
AMD's chip, the Athlon XP shares trademarks with Microsoft. Why doesnt microsoft sue AMD cause of infringement?
I know a processor is not the same as a operating system but I still think it would weaken Microsoft's trademarks as Microsoft said about Lindows.
Is Lindows just a fancy marketing campaign for Linux + WINE or is there more to it?
I guess my 'subtle' commented didn't get noticed. This guy, who's username is "gayrod" has a post at +5 simply because he claimed to be a lawyer and inserted a fake URL in his sig.
I mean, I know slashdot mods can be stupid, but this is just unreal.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
i don't have any idea what lindows is.. but is sounds like a linux windows hybird.. being more of linux but with some of the windows ease and useability... i think they should comply and change the name.. Winux sounds good to me
I mean, that would clear things up.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
why not microwindows.org
it's nearer to 'windows' than 'lindows'
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
How about LinuXP?
ditto!
-- look, cheese ahoy!
Microsoft is making sure this company gets a lot of publicity.
--
The U.S. government causes problems, then pretends to solve them by creating more: What should be the Response to Violence?
Bush's education improvements were
To all those saying that Microsoft is right, I can only say this - you Americans have been totally brainwashed by lawyers and your legal system is screwed up beyond any reasonable doubt.
These sort of "legal" discussions always remind me of a famous quote by a Japanese legislator. When asked why there are more lawyers in Washington alone than in the whole of Japan, the man replied: "In America, if a man walks in the park and gets hit by a ball, he sues. In Japan, if a man walks in the park and gets hit by a ball, he apologises."
Just go ahead and sue the shit out of yourselves!
Illustrator and Word are both generic terms. An illustrator is someone/something who illustrates. A word is a component in communication.
.. yeah, but it just looks lame to an outsider.
I think that all these K and G names seem almost amateur. Sure, it's cool to us geeks, since we know that the G in Gnotices is a reference to GNU and GNOME, or the K in
That said, I like the name Kontour a lot better than Killustrator: Kill us, traitor!
A solution to the problem with music today
Like it or not, Microsoft has a valid point. Trademark infringement is intended to protect companies with registered trademarks (of which Microsoft is obviously one) by preventing others from making similar products with similar names. Trademarks are for preventing someone from creating a similar product and giving it a similar name and then attempting to make money either by confusing the consumer or by attemping to ride the coattails of the original name.
Like it or not, naming a Windows emulator Lindows is a pretty clear case of the latter. Of course they're attempting to invoke th concept of Linux-on-Windows with the name -- why else would they have chosen it?
Here's the bottom line for people who are interested in making clones or emulators of other programs -- don't name them something similar to the original! That's the time to choose original, clever names, not the original names with one letter changed.
There's another issue which most people aren't aware of, and in which trademark and copyright law differ. Unlike copyrights, a trademark holder must defend his/her trademarks. Not actively defending one's trademarks (when brought to one's attention, of course) can be used as a defense by a future infringer. In some sense, when you commit clear trademark infringement, you are giving the trademark holder no choice but to threaten action -- because if they don't do it to you, they may lose it in the future.
max
I hate to sayt it, but, go go Microsoft go!
Use Wine then.
If:
Linux = Linus + Unix
then:
AIX = Anus + Unix
No wonder AIX runs on big hardware.
X is the name of a particular specification for widely-compatible windowing-style grahpical user interfaces. 11 is the current version of the standard, revision 6.4 (5?), so X11R6.4 is the full name of the current version of the standard. There are numerous implementations of the X standard, each of which has its own quirkiness and features. Sun has OpenWindows (and I don't know why MS hasn't tried to sue them for that), SGI has Irix (not sure if they also call their X11 implementation Irix, but the OS itself is called Irix), XFree86 has .. well .. XFree86, there's also that commercial X server for Linux that's supposed to be so much better, I think there's an X server available for Windows NT, ... It's a shame single letters can't be trademarked, otherwise The X Consortium (the governing body over the X standard) could've sued Microsoft over all this DirectX, Xbox, etc. nonsense.
A solution to the problem with music today
The "Lin" part could just as well imply Linux.
And it's not the Lindows guys' fault if some people are so stupid as to call Microsoft up for tech support. And even when it is done, there's no harm in saying, "Sorry. Wrong number." Happens all the time to me.
n/t
Calling a windowed operating system "Windows" is like naming an automobile "Wheels." It's a generic descriptor, and managing to enforce it as a trademark suggests underhanded legal tactics (in particular scare tactics) against small challengers and generous settlements against large challengers. Either that, or clueless judges, or both.
Remember MS's defense over the Internet Explorer trademark suit? "Internet Explorer" is too general and vague to be a trademark. "Windows" is just the same. Ditto for "Office," "Word," "Access," "Visual BASIC," and any number of similar names used by MS (I have no idea which ones they claim as trademarks by themselves). You seem to be completely ignoring this aspect.
Now, if they were making something that sounded confusingly like "Microsoft Windows," MS would have an airtight case. However, MS should never have had a hope of holding "Windows" alone as a trademark, and that they do is a serious failure of the legal process.
Now, as a lawyer, you are certainly better qualified than I am to predict failures of the legal process; in some areas, I'm sure that common failures are more imporant than the letter of the law. I can't argue with you if you claim that MS will win this, but it is absurd for you to claim that they should win, that a court upholding their exclusive right within the industry to use a standard industry term as a name for the most visible component of their system would be fair and proper.
There should be no problem with having "IBM Windows," "Sun Windows," etc. let alone "Lindows."
Now, this last bit has nothing to do with current law, to the best of my knowledge, but I remember hearing a principle of trademarks that I really wish was law: all linguistic trademarks should consist of a proper noun followed by a descriptive term. Nobody should ever own marketing catchphrases, fictional character names, or descriptive terms as trademarks by themselves. (I don't recall the source)
WinBlows (like to see that in the court transcripts.)
OTOH, does Windows become Ventanas in Spanish speaking countries?
Hmm but what about things like Openwindows which have been around for an awful long time. In fact how is X Windows and Openwindows any different in terms of infringement as Lindows.
Read here then realize the undying truth. =)
i sounds to me like a valid claim. do you think red hat would just sit on there arses if microsoft released "wed hat winux", no, they would be filling a law suit over traid mark infingement.
-- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
... and make it stand for "Lindows Is Not the Dumb Os that Windows iS"
;-)
Pet peeve: Profane people propagating perfunctory pedantry.
Incidentely, that's Window's target market.
Microsoft has submitted 19 other trademark infringement complaints .... they include the products:
Bindows
Cindows
Dindows
Findows
Gindows
Hindows
Jindows
Kindows
Mindows
Nindows
Pindows
Qindows
Rindows
Sindows
Tindows
Vindows
Xindows
Yindows
Zindows
These are made by various national and international companies in 14 different countries.
Microsoft spokesman Harry Manback maintains these steps are necessary to protect Microsoft's ability to innovate. "If we can't claim words from English and other languages as our own, how can we possibly sell a product to the public?".
When asked about the possibility that Windows could become so popular that the public interprets Windows as a generic term, not unlike Kleenex, Manback replied "Kleenex has competitors. The issue is moot if the product in question has no competitors. We believe that Windows has no serious competitors now and absolutely will not in the future. The Windows name will be synonymous with operating systems."
When told that what he just said was a contradiction, Manback exclaimed "Gimme that notebook or I'll sue your ass!".
----- rL
Doors are better than Windows, you dont have to climb thru it to get inside, simply walk.
ho ho ho...
Bill Gates didn't see Dragon Ball?
- Gogeta: fusión de Gokuh y Vegeta.
-= If you fight Dragons long enough, you will become a Dragon =-
All this is good publicity for Lindows.com.
It will be good publicity for Microsoft too if Lindows happens to have a not-so-good performance for windows/linux apps.
"...Note that I have deviated from our standard practice and have not included a link to their site. That's because there is nothing there except pure, unadulterated hype.
I've seen several comments talking around this issue, but not addressing it directly.
Clearly, from a legal standpoint, Microsoft seems to have a strong position in this affair. However, Microsoft has been actively seeking to use their own branding efforts over the last several years to confuse public and weaken the Unix/Linux market position.
Products such as Microsoft XP, and the X Box have used marketing campaigns that go out of their way to emphasize the 'X-something'. Even CNET ran an article after the release of XP entitled 'All Things X'. In which, there was never even a peep about X-Windows, but loads of information about XP and X Box. Before long people will think X-Windows is a Microsoft product.
It is a subtle effort, but very effective, and this is only the most obvious example of this tactic in action.
You fool. (in a funny way.)
X-windows does not only run on linux. It did run on all kind of unix before linux. Hey it is even ported to MS-windows.
Calling it l-windows would confuse people it would only run on linux.
Seems with X-windows out there, L-windows would be a viable alt.
/Dread
"For Everyone Smart Enough to Walk Through the Doors, Instead of Crawling in the Windows"
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Amazing what good lawyering can do....
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
did you moderators bother to check if his site (www.davebrenninslaw.org) actually exists (it doesn't). as if the userid (gayrod) wasn't enough. this is a troll. like some sig once said, never trust a user id over 150000.
regardless of what is said on slashdot this will have to be decided in court with a judge and real lawyers.
posting anonymously for the sake of karma.
fear is the mind killer
If you look at Mac OS X, Apple has done everything they can to host every application that they can. If you have an app that's written for a UNIX, it is easy to port it; if you have an app that's written for any Mac API, it's easy to port it. Same with NeXT and Java2/Swing. Finally, they have a system for running the whole legacy OS and its applications side-by-side with all of that. VirtualPC has also been around forever on the Mac platform, and is native on OS X now, so all the PC stuff is available, too.
... modern machines are plenty fast so you can just confine your DOS to a truly virtual machine).
If an Intel OS vendor were to take that same attitude, they would want to build a UNIX with Win32, Java2/Swing, and maybe OS/2 or anything else from the Intel platform's past. DOS could also be supported somehow (maybe an emulator running actual DOS
If an operating system's function is to host apps, then Intel OS vendors might want to consider not shunning all the apps that have been written for Microsoft operating systems on the Intel platform. Those are "PC" apps, and an Intel OS ought to host them.
Apple makes the hardware on their platform, too, and even then they couldn't get Mac developers to switch to a whole new API when the initial Mac OS X Server was released in 1999. Apple had to bring forward a modern version of the old Mac API in order to bring the apps forward. If you want to bring PC apps forward to an open source UNIX, then they will need a Win32 API to write to.
WINE and similar seem to be sensible projects. No wonder Lindows is getting hassled even when they maybe don't have a project. It's the same kind of way Compaq got into the IBM PC platform, by providing a clone of the hardware for the OS to run on. Now, Linux or BSD could provide a clone of the Win32 API for the apps to run on.
Somebody will eventually build this, probably on BSD, just like Mac OS X. You could also clone Mac OS X, just using the comparable x86 API's. Imagine BSD with built-in Apache and all the UNIX stuff, configured for easy operation like in Mac OS X, but also able to run thousands of Windows apps. Maybe some of the Be GUI stuff would be in on this, rather than X-Windows.
What's wrong with "Doors" -- break on through to the other side? Better yet, "Chimneys" or "Toilets"?
Anyone remember any of the DOS permutations, DRDOS, etc? At the time did IBM or MS hold a trademark on the DOS name?
Just curious.
VmWare does not "emulate" a whole x86 machine, since it already run in a x86. So, what it does is to "virtualize" the hardware so it appears to the Windows OS as a fully-featured x86. Unfortunately, the PC architechture is not well-suited for this like the good old IBM mainframes, whose lowest-level OS does exactly what VmWare tries to do.
``If a program can't rewrite its own code, what good is it?'' - Mel
X Windows, the GUI layer sitting on a lot of different operating systems (including, at one stage, MS Windows) has existed almost since MS Windows 1.0. There doesn't seem to have been a contest there.
MIT plus Digital and a few other companies were behind the first version and it has spread to be an industry standard. They don't seem to have any problems.
Lindows is a fantasy name composed from Linux and windows, which is already genericised with respect to computers. It is distinctly different. However MS will win. IP law in the US depends upon one thing, the dollar. If you have more of them, you win, whatever the merits of the case.
See my journal, I write things there
need a lot of ammo to depopulate the US...
If Lindows can afford the suits ( law- and leech-in-a- ) then litigation might help them buy mindshare.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Win-Dough$
GNU/Lindows?
Disclaimer -> Just got started this morning and I don't feel like reading 400 comments so I may be repeating somebody else thoughts.
Lindows had this planned from the beginning. They knew that by using a deceptively similar name they would get sued and receive tons of free publicity.
What they should focus on instead is providing a quality product and use regular marketing channels. No Linux distributor should ever sink to this level. It makes them no better than Microsoft. There are plenty of creative names out there that they could use. LinuXacross - bridging the gap between Windows(r) and Linux.
On another note -> I want so badly for the Linux community to get off of the friggin' Microsoft kick and start focusing on marketing Linux. Linux should not be about how it is better than Windows but how it is a great open operating system on its own with millions (optimistic) of people around the world contributing applications, drivers, support, etc. all for free. Every time you bash Microsoft to an end user they are going to think - "Man. He needs to get a life."
Will these hypocrites ever stop? Soon they will claim it is unpatriotic to question anything Microsoft does and millions of mushrooms calling themselves patriotic Americans will agree. Ahhh, to go back to the good ol days when Americans actually had a voice and their votes were counted, seems like forever.
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
Well, the Great Grey Lady from the Big Apple objected strenuously to this, so the Infocommies started a contest for a new newsletter name. One contributor suggested, "Call it the New YORK Times. Let's really piss 'em off!"
Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute, I say!
Like Apple was forced to change the internal code name for project "Sagan", maybe Lindows can change their name to "Buttheaded, Gigalomaniac Software Archictect System", or BGSAS for short.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
A class action suit has been brought against M$. The plaintiffs in the suit are described as "Men named BOB". The suit alleges that M$'s BOB "os" infringed on their trademark as human beings and as such they are entitled to restitution. The lawyer for the plaintiffs was quoted as saying "These men have been traumatized by being associated with such a bad product that most of them are finding it hard to get any respect. Even their pets won't play with them anymore."
Sounds reasonable to me, unless Microsoft intends to trademark the whole alphabet.
I suppose calling it Windux would result in lawyerish activities as well. How different does it have to be? How about Winnux? Or Linows? I think it is a travesty that they were able to trademark the generic term "Windows" in the first place.
This whole thing is now becoming a giant load of crap. Pardon language. It's more proof that Microsoft wants, and IS on target to own, not only the entire Internet, but also on track to own, control, manipulate and direct the entire computing industry. They only have yet to accumulate a little more ready cash and market prominance before they begin to decend on such as Apple, Sun, Dec, Etc... When they're either killed of, or bought up, then it's all over people... But there are those who think what I speak forth is dribble. IT simply amazes me sometimes how some MCSE people are so dedicated to Microsoft... then you quickly discover why that is...
Cheers
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
Doesn't XWindows count as prior art? I mean clearly Microsoft is trying to ride the coattial of Unix. According to the Lindows argument Joe average user could be confused into thinking Windows was XWindows
MS, evil empire that it is, has EVERY right to protect their products, IP, and identity or trademarks. Lindows obviously infringes... grow up people.
If you had a product and someone else decided to make a product that not only worked your product, but borrowed in part from it's name, you would be in court as fast as possible, especially if it was profitable for you.
/. Reporter Anarchy... more of the same bashing and little realisim.
Doors[tm] Has a much nicer connotation I think.
michael
I just have an ok os but I want to call it dildows. I love it cause no mater what they do they would get bad press!!!
Keeps your desktop streak free.
komi
The ultimate goal of science is to unify all forces of nature to a single law that can be silk-screened onto a T-shirt.
One could use a galloping deer logo, but Chevrolet would sue you because consumers might confuse it with the Chevy Impala.
"And now you shall learn the secret of boot to the head"
only starts new ventures so he can keep up that stupid "Michael's Minute" thing...
Now if you can just convince the trolls that "L4$T P0$T" would be funnier than "FRIST PSOT", they might try it and stop.
Hope Bill sues them when they trademark it! Bill can stop anyone!
Real men don't need signitures!!!
If they have to rename it make it Lindex. A combo of Window and Windex. It make windows clear. ;-)
...rename Lindows to Nifty Doorways.
Of course the company that has a monopoly on glass cleaning might not be impressed.
I was wondering when next you'd post to Slashdot, you've been amusing me ever since I read this thread.
Keep it up, your paranoia is highly amusing.
PS: By the way, who said I work for Microsoft? It's interesting that you stalk me over the 'net but happen to ignore simple facts like the fact that I interned at MSFT and not that I work there now.
So they'll have to modify the name. Let's hope it isn't too awful.
(Reality reasserts itself sooner or later.)
People called it X Windows because X isn't namey enough.
Microsoft's practice of trademarking common words (Windows, Word, Office) was a stroke of genius, because it made people include the Microsoft when speaking about the product. "Hey, Bob, I got Office last week" is a bit misleading.
Perhaps they should rename their company to Lindows and call their produce Operating System.
that if M$ has a trademark on Windows, and Lindows does have a weak case. The implication is that M$ has a "virtual" trademark on ?indows where ? is [A-Z]. That doesn't make any sense to me. And that is why i find it troubling. Companies will trade mark XYZ and kind of automatically have a trade mark on ?YZ.
lindose.com
Linux Dose - A cure for windows. I will gladly donate this URL to the lindows cause, should they be defeated by the mighty dollar.
Funny how Microsoft can develope a product that is intentionally confusing ... Windows. How could they patent a generic word. Ever have to go to the hardware store and purchase a window. I recal telling a friend I was going to replace my windows (with news double-paned energy conserving) at home, only to be asked, which version I was going to get ...
Surely they can come up with something better than that anyway... sounds like a breakfast cereal or some kind of tea biscuit.
what if microsoft would sell some software caled gnulinux filld with bloatware - wouldent we like to sue them ( of course for microsoft it does not matter - they have enough money to by juges and everthing )
For starters, they are competing over operating systems, its not like anyone is going to go to the store, and buy a copy of "Lindows" believing
#1 its a product of windows for windows
or
#2 Its an application to be run on Windows.
If someone is searching for an operating system for a computer, this means they are either smart enough to use a computer, or they are stupid enough to think they are smart enough to use a computer, but in reality, aren't. Either case, they are going to relize that despite what Micro$oft wants the public to think, there is more than one operating system. And if they are of the second set of people, hopefully at this point in their poor pathetic lives, they are going to be able to differentiate between "L" and "W". If it was "Lindows XP" then maybe there might be a little problem!
Walk with Music;
Quotes from "Running other OSes" thread:
? Real easy, and legal too. Again, note that with Wine, you can run a ton of Windows software _without_ a licensed copy of Windows.
:^)
>>But with VMWare you have to buy/own a Windows
>>license, which kind of nullifies the price
>>advantage.
>Use Wine [winehq.com] then.
I'm betting that's exactly what Lindows is. A friend and I were discussing Wine's license recently, specifically wrt the percieved lack of contributions from Transgaming's WineX (a DirectX centered fork from Wine -- http://www.transgaming.com/) back into the original codebase.
It appeared to us that Wine has a pretty open license much like X11's (http://winehq.com/source/LICENSE). The only real stipulation is the following:
15 The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
16 all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
So how tough would it be to wrap up Wine in a box with a $99 price tag (price from Lindows' FAQ page: http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_faqs.php)
So to sum, take open sourced but not "RMS Free" (aka, GPL'd) code, name the result something Microsoft will have a problem with for the free press (as has been mentioned about a million times already), and *poof*, you've got the makings of a 90's style IPO.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
...For example, what if Linus Torvalds created
and was marketing a product called Linux, which
was intended to provide the same functionality as
Unix and used unique only to Unix technical and
architectural concepts?...
Eighteen. Twelve.
Yes, you lost. We were just very generous and asked for nothing except the US give up its territorial claims in Canada.
--
E_NOSIG
Lindows is a Linux application. Are you confused?
-- SIGFPE
Shatter the myth...
Quite right. Trademarks are an important part of every successful company's business. They must be protected or they will quickly lose any value. Better for the Lindows folks to choose another name. But at least this lawsuit will provide them unexpected publicity.
So I gotta ask... What would you suggest as a course of action if Microsoft announced a product called "Winux" that ran Linux software on Windows?
If you can't turn the tables and keep the same philosophy, then you have no philosophy.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
The new name should be "linw" (Lindows is not Windows) i'm suprised no one had posted this yet.
prisoner# msce18xxxxx. Currently planning my escape.
How about "Windux" then? Hmm...no, that's no good either. They might be sued by Windex then because consumers might get 'confused'.
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
at some point, will windows become like Kleenex? I call all tissues kleenex, regardless of brand. On the other hand, maybe I should head out and TM:
And
The
Or
-and-
But
I think all of you owe me some money...but dont worry I will start a monthly subscription service for you all to use the words.
I think alot of people are missing the point of this whole issue. I really don't agree with what MS is doing, as I see it as a waste of their money. Lindows will probably never become anything more than alot of the other niche Linux OS's (compared to say Red Hat or Suse).
However the issue at hand is whether there is some sort of trademark infringement going on here. Which from what I've gathered, there is. "Lindows" is definately close to sounding and looking like "Windows", so much so that it might be confusing to the average consumer/user, who we all know can easily be confused when shopping for and/or using computer software.
Whether or not the Lindows developers intended to use the name as a way to gain attention and possible sales is not the issue either. Although I'm sure not one person here, who is thinking intelligently, would disagree that they intentionally picked the name Lindows for that very purpose.
I know the majority of people may think that it is unfair for MS to be able to hold a trademark for Windows (which they do), but it is perfectly legal for them to do so. There are several other companies that hold trademarks to very common names/words; such as Apple, Sun (yeah I know, Sun Microsystems), etc... And you are fooling yourself if you think that any of these companies wouldn't go after another for using a common trademark they own in a competing product.
If Lindows was a Windows-based program or even a Linux program like WINE, I doubt MS would have even bothered to file for trademark infringement, however Lindows is an operating system (Linux-based if course) that is being developed to allow for the running of Windows-based software. If this isn't a competing product then I don't know what is, and as such MS can go after them for marketing a product name that has the potential to confuse and/or obtain commercial business by using a name that is very close to a competing product.
As I stated before, I think this is a waste of MS's money and time, and I think it is also indicative of the past behavior. However the developers of Lindows knew from the start that there was the potential for this to happen, and as such I'm sure they went ahead with their chosen name just to obtain the attention/publicity that they are now receiving.
Which would of course be pronounced Won-dows.
McFly777
- - -
"What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
They're talking about charging $99 for the OS, but I didn't see anywhere to download it for free (as with RedHat, Debian, etc.)
Isn't Lindows just Linux and WINE? I'm sort of a newbie to the GPL, but I thought it forbade charging for what you can get free.
Lindex is a chain of stores selling clothes for women. Would that really be a suitable name for an OS where the probable majority of future users is insecure teenage males?
ahem... I've heard many people comment about my computer as 'Having a lot of windows open', even though I'd been using X Windows System, KDE, Gnome, MacOS, Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 2000, etc.
-Senine
The name MicroSoft was in 1975 probably meant to signal that this new company was making Software for microcomputers, however, I doubt that most MicroSoft users todat think about what the name originally meant, or even know what the definition "microcomputer" means..
Since the days of Basic and DOS, Microsoft has grown BIG, and has also started making hardware like joysticks and big bulky consoles, wouldn't it be natural for microsoft to change it's name to BigHard?
L windows system
WindowOpener
Steal this OS
Byte ME
Ctrl-Alt-Del
Lindozer
OpenGates
Next they'll sue "Browns window cleaning service" for trademark infrigment or perhaps even some doublgalzing salesmen who "install new windows for only £999" ;-)
I do agree that Lindows is right on the line if not over it. But I still don't see how people could get Lindows and Windows confused but then I have seen people get the modem, computer, monitor, and printer confused with each other(Standerd CompUSA Customers)
As one of the fellow posters has said, Why not L-Windows. Windows as X11. L as Linux. It is even more like Windows(TM) then Lindows and I don't see where Microsoft could sue them.
If Linus is okay with it they might have some protection :-).
Listen to Reality!
There are a ton of derivative names in the electronics industry, and I haven't heard of any lawsuits yet. Would this set a precedent and see the death of lots of little companies no one's heard of? Also, what if the court simply tells them to change their name? Is this likely? That would be pretty good publicity IMHO.
Man, this whole thing sounds like vaporware to me! Where are the downloads? Can I try it out now? What about the list of applications that work under Lindows?
Sheesh, maybe I'll just announce that I have a new OS that lets you use Linux and MacOS stuff. I'll call it OSEX. Yea, that's the ticket...
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
Hmm let's look into the history of X Windows!
I believe X11 was here first!
McDoogles should be legal.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac