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Tall People Earn More
ayahner writes "Tall people earn considerably more money throughout their lives than their shorter co-workers, with each inch adding about $789 a year in pay, according to a new study. If this is true, I should make a killing! At 6'7" I tower over other developers. It's mostly a distraction, as I can see over even the highest cubes and if I stand just in the right spot, I can receive satellite transmissions. Saves on the cell phone bill. I'm going to go ask for a raise right now, if I can figure out how to work the printer..."
I, for one, welcome our plutocratic and Brobdignagian overlords!
Well of course we get more money! We don't have huge pots of gold to fall back on like short people do! Quit whinin'!
I knew these big shoes would be handy some day. I am an amazon woman, towering over my puny coworkers!
Mwahaha!
The short ones always go postal.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
It's because tall people are better.
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
I assume this is $789/year +/- about $25,000.
More froth than broth, seems to me.
Milo
I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller, I wish i had a girl with a phone I would call her!
More height begets more money.
More money begets better health care.
Better health care begets a longer, healthier life.
So why won't doctor's help short people grow?
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
welcome our giant overlords, and remind them that, being 6'6", I can be of use in rounding up short people to work in their Big & Tall stores. ;)
Tall people earn more.
Good looking people earn more.
Good genes are more successful.
Good genes seek good genes.
Short men get ugly women.
And vice-versa.
Tall geeks still stand a chance.
But this is old news...
Ceci n'est pas une signature
We also have sharper wits, better abstract thinking skills and vastly larger genitalia. Bow before us, shorties! Mwah ha haaaa! C'mere! I need someplace to put my beer.
--- Ban humanity.
You insensitive clod!
"Much work is lost, for the lack of a little more." -Edward H. Harriman
I doubt I'm earning more than my 5'0 dwarven boss.
#include <sig.h>
Some day.... we short people will get the payment we deserve! Short people rock!
DUKEY!
I'm always doubtful about studies like this. While they claim that certain variables like weight, gender, etc. were controlled, I suspect there are other variables that come into play here. Did each participant have the same background? Training? Did they choose the same occupation? Do they live in the same area? Blah blah blah.
This is likely one of those "research causes cancer in rats" conclusions.
This may apply in bullshitter-type positions (marketing, sales, management), but for coders, who cares? Nobody really cares if even bathe or shave, as long as we pump out the code.
I make as much (or more) than tall programmers. As to promotion, who wants to be a PHB?
i can't back this up, but i've heard the taller candidate tends to win presidential campaigns, also.
--Slashdot readers delight in generalizing the behavior of other Slashdot readers.
That's why offshore work is going to India and China but not Africa. They're shorter so it's cheaper!
....and I don't consider myself tall.... ...who cares if people are tall, if you can lead them around on a leash (figuratively or literally) it doesn't matter.
The various injuries suffered by walking into doorframes, being doubled-up in the back seat of small cars, tripping over smaller people -- they're all expensive.
I say we should be paying tall people even more. They're suffering, way up there in the sky!
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
i would think this is due to different causes. for example, the article implies that being taller is a direct reason for higher pay, when in reality it's a little deeper than that. I would think that probably on average if you are taller you feel more confident about yourself, which comes through in the interviews, thereby usually giving you a little boost in your negotiation terms.
therefore being taller doesn't necessary guarantee better offer, but the amount of self-confidence (partially due to your exceptional height) usually does.
You're too tall. Past studies show the effect only works up to 6'4" and then really tall people suffer.
Some speculate that some companies have ended up promoting tall people over talent and that has hurt them. A notable example is Sears, whose top executives were known as the "Tall Men" or something close to that (See book The Big Store).
By contrast, it used to be said about William Morris that the basement had a rack of 36 short suits and you could work there if the suit fit.
But the report is only based upon the UK, and US. Is this type of social bias found in eastern nations as well?
Regardless being only 5'8" I think I deserve some benefits with school admission etc...
if I can figure out how to work the printer..." PC load letter, what the FUCK does that mean?!
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
Every psychology professor I ever had brought up the point that GPA and Major have no correlation to lifetime earnings, but height does. One even went so far as to say that women tend to make less money on average because they are shorter, and tend to do as well as men their height.
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
To live
They got little hands
Little eyes
They walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
`Round here
Short People are just the same
As you and I
(A Fool Such As I)
All men are brothers
Until the day they die
(It's A Wonderful World)
Short People got nobody
Short People got nobody
Short People got nobody
To love
They got little baby legs
That stand so low
You got to pick 'em up
Just to say hello
They got little cars
That got beep, beep, beep
They got little voices
Goin' peep, peep, peep
They got grubby little fingers
And dirty little minds
They're gonna get you every time
Well, I don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
'Round here
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Is it just me, or are most geeks pretty tall? Of the 5 people I work with, 4 are over 6'2" and one is about 6'1". I'm 6'4" myself.
Develop better posture. Never look like you're not doing anything. Become indisposable. Clean. Tan. Learn to like golf and kissing ass. Be seen with the right people. Try to get into a lodge. Find religion again.
wanted: programmer with extensive experience in C++. applicants under 5' 2" a plus.
Men in general still earn more in many places, for horrible old fashioned reasons. Men are taller.
Do you see where I am taking this?
It's a Ziggy!
Yes, and women are also supposed to earn much less over the course of a lifetime.
But the real question is, what can we do about this? Does the article suggest that wearing platform shoes would result in a pay raise? Or that standing on tip-toes all day would be the most lucrative form of exercise?
I've heard theories that the income difference between women and men is due to women dropping out of the workforce at some point to have children. This means that a woman at age 50 would only have experience comparable to a man of age 40, and would get paid as such. Can anyone think of a similar theories to explain the height discrepency?
Tall CHICKS maybe. Love them long legs...
pack .tongue -in .cheek
There is a simple reason that tall people earn more.
We are better educated.
We are better educated because, in school, we could see the blackboard, while the shorter people couldn't see the blackboard because of us.
www.eFax.com are spammers
This of course comes as a surprise to noone under the 5'5" mark.
What's funny, or perhaps expected, is that tall people are, as a rule, blissfully unaware of the advantages their height affords them. They bitch about trivialities like fitting into movie seats while attractice girls fling themselves at them and they command undue attention in a conference room.
And if one of us shortish people brings it up, we're told we have a "Napolean complex", as if they even know what that means apart from that Napolean was also kind of short.
This just confirms what we short people have known all along: that people who you *literally* look up to, you normally look to be a leader. I think it is an artifact that literally comes from our evolutionary history. The biggest wolf in the pack, the strongest caveman of the tribe, etc. Tall people have a very real "management appeal."
This story reminds me of a show on Discovery (or was it TLC) about how attraction affects human relations. The show called to mind how General Custer was a poor general, yet got to his position only by having "the general's look." Similar cases were called upon for other historical figures (whose names escape me at the moment).
I imagine that this alleged bias toward taller people is just something akin to that, if not the same thing (but on a slightly different trait).
The article didn't mention anything really useful (or, at least, anything I haven't heard of before); what would have been better would have been a link to the paper itself. I guess I'll have to wait for the spring issue of that psychology journal.
I think I read the same thing about 20 years ago. It's also been long noted that almost every US president has been taller than average.
Anyway, that's life. I'm short, but make up for it by being a good coder. And I never have back problems, while I notice lots of taller people do.
I guess it would be ideal if I could be tall, smart, athletic, funny, and sensitive. Then I'd make loads of money and have hundreds of women after me. But then I might catch an STD and die a slow, painful death. So maybe I should just try to be happy with how I am.
anybody remember the cube farmer from Dilbert? It was a short-lived thing in which taller people "grew out of their containers" and were transfered to bigger containers (offices).
Support Israeli punk bands. Man Alive.
a ha heh heh....
just when i was feeling comfortable among my gas-passing, dangly-bejeweled bretheren.
and and amazon woman, no less. ah, nerves.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Urban legend, this fact may be, but I was told in the late 80's by one of my professors that the only factor research could correlate to success was height.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
the compared the average salaries of a few 6'6+ NBA Basketball players, and a couple of 5'4" guys working the maintenance shift and the Sip'n'Save.
Tall people are easily seen, thus all the mindless people who need assistance see their head bopping above the cubes and calls for them! then later gets a raise for his good work.
I've left to find myself. If you happen to see me, please, keep me there until I return.
The IRS now recognizes elevator shoes as a legitimate business deduction.
The latest Slashdot meme.
The title that hit the cutting room floor for this newer, politically correct title is, of course:
"Shorter People Earn Less"
A new study shows that shorter people earn an average of $789 less per year than their taller counterparts.
-Adam
Cars with big tires go farther than hatchbacks, 100-Base over Yellow CAT5e is better than 100-Base over fibre, and Italian Amaretto lasts longer than American Amaretto.
Lets pull more unprovable crap out of a hat now, ok?
Desperation is a stinky cologne
He's a multi-billionaire.
:-)
I guess I need to work for a company where 6'3 is the tallest.
According to modern business ethics, eating poo should lead to earning *MORE*.
im sure i could do a study to figure out that brown eyed left handed one legged people make more money than blue eyed right handed two legged people.
can i have a grant now?
This post cannot be re-broadcast without the express written consent of Major League Baseball.
..Gary Colemans career never took off.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
You just can't seem to throw tall women around in teh sack as easily as short ones
NBA players ;)
I guess many are very intimidated by taller people and it's a kind of unintended bullying on our part that results in us taking the company's lunch money, to draw a comparison. I dunno why that is. But I'll take it.
I'm 6'5"... and I only blow my load inside of tall sexy bitches.
Shit, the child support bills are making the fact that I earn more irrelevant.
Besides as a larger person there is more blood, more surface area and more oxygenation required, thus more blood pumping..
:)
Your heart works harder and you die younger...
so you dont have to pay them as much, and they don't require large cubes. in the eyes of management, a midget programmer would be best, they could work for pennies in a shoebox on the shelf!
It is obvious that tall peole earn more money. let us think, who are the tallest people...hmmm. Atheletes. They earn tons of money and are generally big & tall people. How many programmers do you know have 100 million dollar contracts and multimillion dollar signing bonuses?
We're left with a race of people who are thirteen feet tall and stunningly beautiful.
Creepy.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
This seems to be especially true in marketing. So far, in the companies I've worked with, the marketers lined themselves up by height with the tallest being the most powerful.
Of course, this is different from electoral politics where elections are often decided alphabetically.
Especially if the study included Pr0n industry employees
- No Sig for you!
Higher birthweight tends to correlate to growing taller.
Higher birthweight tends to correlate to a higher IQ.
Being taller correlates to making more money.
All we need to show is having a higher IQ correlates to making more money, and we've got something.
here is an article on the effects of height in presidential elections.
A couple of the choice tidbits...
from 1904-1984 80% of the winning canidates were the taller.
And only 2 POTUS have been short compaired to average heights of the times...
Makes me glad to be 6'1"...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
From the pics I've seen of Bill Gates he looks at least 6'2". I myself am 6'2". Your thoughts?
That study was conducted examining professional basketball players.
--- Worst tagline ever.
YOU FAIL IT! You fail it good, lah!
8================D
-- The WIPO Avenger
Statically, tall people are smarter. That most likely the real reason they make more.
.
by removing NBA Players from the mix.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
That's what I tell anyone who says they wish they were taller. "It's a curse!"
Not that I would wish to be short, but I really, really hate hitting my head.
A retarded, blind, left-handed lesbian albino midget eskimo with a club foot.
I think that covers all the bases.
The shortest 0.5 % of girls and boys in their preteens (for guys, those who are predicted to be about 4 foot tall in adulthood and their parents are short) can take a hormone pill (or was it a shot?) once or twice every week for a few years to gain about two more inches when they grow up. This is expensive and has possible side effects and only offered for the group above.
I think you could also get 3 inches for free just by eating lots of cereal and milk every day, since milk can contain cow puss and cows get growth hormone, some of which makes it into our digestive system.
Cover your eyes and click this link!
And conversely, Bill Gates should be 12'4"
that caused Milton to be tragically ripped away from his merry squirrels.
You're just mad because the voices in your head talk to me.
In my company, the following tends to be true: most MBAs are tall and most Directors and VPs are tall
Also, they say tall people have more inefficient brains since the distance between the brain and heart is more. That explains why most MBAs, directors and VPs are tall.
Wrap your mind around this one -- perhaps tall people earn more because they are smarter, and they are smarter because teachers called on them more -- because they are taller, and it's the tallest hand that gets called on in class! WHOA!
stuff |
Interviewer ...Sir Robert Eversley, who's just returned from the excavations in El Ara, and you must be well over six foot. Isn't that right, Sir Robert?
Sir Robert (puzzled) Yes.
Interviewer In fact, I think you're six foot five aren't you?
Sir Robert Yes.
Applause from off. Sir Robert looks up in amazement.
Interviewer Oh, that's marvelous. I mean you're a totally different kind of specimen to Professor Kastner. Straight in your seat, erect, firm.
Sir Robert Yes. I thought we were here to discuss archaeology....
(full skit here)
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
I'm 6'3", but apparently that's not tall enough, so I'm going to start drinking more milk. I wonder what the ratio of milk-to-salary is?
© 2004 The SCO Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
has anyone done a study of "management-hair?"
I can't believe it's not lard!
Correlation and causation anyone? Maybe tall people tend to be more self-confident and that causes them to generally earn more, but a short person who has the same self-confidence as a tall person will earn the same amount?
Nothing new. Personally, I'm male, and 4'10". Just like everything else, there are disadvantages and advantages in life. Sure, being short throughout growing up was a bitch, but I came to accept it. If others have a problem with it, it is their problem.
Honestly, everyone has advantages and disadvantages. Just my disadvantage happens to be more physically apparent than most.
I'm 26 years-old, have a bachelor's degree from college, have family and friends, and enjoy my work. I honestly couldn't ask for anything more.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
Now people will be accused of heightening to get a job/raise
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It sounds like this was a mere obersvation in relation to another study. They make no mention of the Actual context of the study this was observed in.
:)
We have no clue if the context of the study this observation was made was something like "a Study of Alien Abducties".. In which case Aliens could be making genetic manipulations to Tall people in order to pave the way for Alien Colonization
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
Aha!
Maybe now we can get on with "Operation Impending DOOM 3!"
hahahahahahhahahahaha!
We can now select EARTH's tallest to least us to victory!
....move along....nothing to see here....
We could probably make a list: Intelligent people make more Good-looking " " Tall " " Those with good breath " " Early Risers " " ... one could file this article under OBVIOUS
-- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous
geeks spend all their time in front of the computer. Hunching over a keyboard stretches out the spine, thus making them taller than thier marketing-based couterparts, who spend all their time standing up, and thus feel more of the effects of gravity in the long run.
They don't care if you bathe or shave, so long as you telecommute.
:)
Thank god for ssh.
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movie seats piss me off. and large people's bodies tend to wear quicker because of the extra weight, and because they can't sit comfortably in flights, etc. i find it bizarre that back/knee pain is a triviality to you. but maybe that's because you're a midget. :)
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Do you realie, that if this is modern/recent politics, that you are talking about 6 people when you say Bush, Clinton, Dole (3 presidents, 3 Senators) when you say that. All of them were elected to major office at least once (the most anti-GWB among you can count only his 2 governor wins if you want).
I read that when a study was done of military officers, those in higher promotions had that sharp jaw, military look. It seems people with rounded faces have a much harder place in becoming leaders, and I think face shape is as influencial as height. Supposedly, your face shape could predict where you end up in rank.
Cover your eyes and click this link!
Smarter people earn more.
Gee, studies showed this 20 years ago. You also tend to get paid less if you're fat, dress poorly, or are simply unattractive.
I want to see the median pay increase, not the average. I bet NBA players account for 99% of the pay difference.
You know, us short people live longer, healthier lives. How many tall people do you see in retirement homes? Also, short men are better at many things. Just ask your mom, your sister or any woman I've ever dated. Once they go short, they don't go back.
I am 6' 4" and I have been in the computer (geek portion) business for over 20 years. I have found that when I get hired with a new company, the boss / co-workers (all shorter) have always had to get raises to stay with or above my salary level. (This has happended the last 2 companies I have worked for). This may be attributed to my experience level but my bosses / co-workers are not complaining about the additional money.
I have also found that people generally give more commanding respect to tall people verses shorter people. I have had sales people (and others) come into a room and start addressing me as the leader instead of my boss. This can be a real problem when my boss and his boss are both real short.
Tall people will also generally have more breaks in life than short people. This is not to say short people do not get ahead but that taller people generally have it easier when it comes to advancement within a company (all other things being equal). A side to this is that short people who have to fight for their opportunities tend to be hungrier (figuratively) and tend to see an opportunity and jump for it quicker than taller people who have had an easier time.
You will never catch me complaining about being tall ;-)
The problem with this study and those similar ones that make claims about the relation between higher pay and beauty, for instance, is that it becomes tempting to say, "Hey, if I'm tall (or beautiful), I'll get paid more." Or, "It's unfair that I'm short (or ugly) and will therefor be paid less."
A better way to think of it is that, in our society, being tall is considered a desirable characteristic. People with desirable characteristics tend to have better self images. People with better self images are more confident. And confidence (usually) leads to higher pay. Why? Because higher paying jobs tend to be more competitive. Confidence is extremely important to succeeding in a competetive environment.
The end result is not that employers give people an extra grand a year because they're six inches taller than everyone else. It's just that tall people (on average) are more confident about themselves (more outgoing so to speak) than short people because they are in possetion of that additional desirable characteristic.
Bottom line: if you feel good about yourself, you'll have a greater chance at success than someone who doesn't.
I'm 5'10, I'm apparently 1" taller than the avarage guy and 6" taller than the average woman. lol.
:D
Now, I do have to admit, wearing heels to work really is sort of fun though.
As applied to IT:
a) The tall people are the ones that can quickly reach the RESET but on the NT Server (at the top of the rack) when it crashes
b) The tall guy's head is visible over the cubicle wall when he's at the desk working late
c) You can see the short guy's monitor over his head, and tell when he's playing nethack. No so with the tall one.
Well, how else are the tall people going to pay for the more food they need to keep a larger body going, the higher cost of getting tailored suits where the sleaves don't inch up to your elbows and the pants don't make you look like you're expecting a flood, and the SUV (or Honda Element, Saab) they need so they don't keep ramming their head into the ceiling of a sub-compact, or the custom made sneakers so they can fit their size 16 feet, or extra long matress so they their feet don't hang over the edge of the bed etc etc etc.
There are a lot of hidden cost this money is going for. Not sure it all strictly balances out, but that's not 700$ net we're talking about.
Wow, great news! ...for a change. (I am 6'5") 10 years ago they published a study that mentioned something about tall people (over 6 feet) not living as long as shorter people. (more blood to pump?) Personally, I think it's because we keep hitting our heads all the time. I must have hit my kitchen and living room pendants at least 20 times.
Finally, I think shorter people are intimidated when it comes to asking the "big boss" for a raise or when negotiating their salary during hiring process. HOWEVER, eye contact, imho, is far more important than height or looks. You can be a 7ft tall 500 pound guy but if you are looking at the wall or the floor instead of the person you are talking too, you will appear to be scared, weak and less confident. OR at least not as serious or interested.
So stand tall, look into the pointy-headed boss' eyes and demand that raise! (even though you don't deserve it)
Growth Hormone Conglomerate of America?
...probably not making more than $40K/yr now out West being a store manager. Probably because he's a big guy and not a basketball player (370lbs). I called him 6'10" once and he threatened to kill me for cheating him out of an inch. j/k lol
Relive the BBS Past - One Byte at a Time! www.ssabbs.com
... welcome our new overgrown high earning overlords!
Jonathanjk.com
This observation is as true today as it was in the 70's. I guess that dates me.
Now... the flip side of this is that many short intelligent men chose not to put up with this sort of bullshit. This provides an incentive for them to get out on their own and set up their own firms.
I know of at least 5 major companies in this city who are headed by short men who were driven out of the company they used to work for. In one case the president-owner of the newly formed company declared that he was going to put his former employer out of business and hire every one of their employees.
Well, this has not materialized. Nevertheless his former employer is no longer #1 in the industry and the new company is rapidly moving into that slot so perhaps it just hasn't happened yet.
Tall people can be both smug and complacent at times but the little guys can sometimes really kick ass too!
I believe these results have been known for a long time. It is also well known that attractive people make more money. Is anyone really surprised by any of this ??
tall people suck. but besides that, let's get to the really important question:
"management hair" vs. bald?
ponytails vs. crewcuts?
comb-over bald vs. accept-it-and-move-on bald?
hairclub for men vs. hair-plugs?
luxurious flowing locks vs. brillo-pad-perm?
gerry(sp?) curl vs. 'fro?
blond vs. brunette vs. firebush (oops I mean redhead...)
farrah vs. Jacklyn?
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
The median height for American white males is 69"(5'9") while 72"(6'0") is the 75th percentile. (NHANES III 1988-94)
Recent Presidents' heights:
G.W.Bush: 6' 0"
Clinton: 6' 2-1/2"
G.H.Bush: 6' 2"
Reagan : 6' 1"
Carter: 5' 9-1/2"
Ford: 6' 0"
Nixon: 6' 0"
Johnson: 6' 3"
Kennedy: 6' 0"
8 of the last 9 above the 75th percentile not even accounting for lower heights in the past.
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Fat people make less than thin. Better looking people make more money than uglier ones. More educated/bright people make more money, etc, etc.
This groundbreaking study on height being correlated with salary does not suprise me. For men it is seen that height is "more attractive" (see above). Interesting thing is that more attractive people are seen as brighter and more "one of us", even if the sexes are the same. No, men don't typically say "My thats a good looking guy!", but they do behave more positively towards better looking men.
Or green, in your case.
whilst trying to impress US (buy use of phonIE ?pr? ?firm? hypenosys) that you are too, regardless of your height/weight/station.
just another statistic supplied by the pateNTdead eyecon0meter.
of course, you wouldn't need the eyecon0meter to realize that if you are only profiting from folks MiSplaced trust, you are actually a BIG part of the problems that WILL be solved by the creator's newclear power plan, which is the driving force behind the planet/population rescue initiative.
so, if you are won of the felonious wons (we know who you are) whois stealing J.'s hardearned, whilst presenting to be some kind of "banker", lookout bullow.
This has everything to do with how the human animal is hardwired for dominance/submission. Very similar to many animals. More dominant males tend to succeed better. Being taller is a dominance trait. It's not rocket science. It's biology. It drives a lot more human behavior than most people are aware of, or would be comfortable admitting.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Quoted from here
Work on your booty - it worked for Kylie.
There are clearly many forms of discrimination in the workplace. Many are unprotected thanks to "at will".
Long hair, beards, short hair, no hair, choice of clothes, funny voice, bad teeth, etc..
It is nice to see research on this. But once we identify it, how do we solve it?
Affirmitive action for short/fat/bald/etc people?
indians and chinese work for less because they are shorter..
$789 * 30 = $23,670
How is that "literally hundreds of thousands of dollars"? Unless they're talking about people that are 6 to 10 inches taller than normal....
Then again, maybe they're saying if they invest that money and let it build off of interest, it could be hundreds of thousands by retirement....
Karma: NaN
Like most research, it's only true under specific circumstances. I'm 6'4" and unemployed.
*sigh*
This is not a sig. this is a duck. quack.
New Scientist reports that "Between the 1950s and 1990s, thousands of girls worldwide who were predicted to grow to more than 177 centimetres (5 foot 10 inches) were given synthetic oestrogen - over four times the dose in the modern pill - for an average of two years" to stop them growing too tall.
Now they are having trouble conceiving children of their own.
Two exceptions -- George W. is 5'11" and Gore was 6'1" -- but then W. only got the electoral college and the supreme court. Also Jimmy Carter is only 5'9", and Ford was six two. But those are the only times it's gone the other way.
The Daily Standard has a throwaway article on the subject. Very informative about the height of Kerry's hair, if you ask me.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
This has got to be one of the stupidest studies ever!
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from what I have seen, fat people become heads of companies.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Fuck BayStar Capital
I am not huge at 6'1", but I am tall enough to cause problems, nobody (well very few...) who is 5'5" has ever experienced being over 6', but...
I was 5'6" for a couple years (pause before growth spurt, late growth spurt too...). I remember being 5'6", it wasn't that bad.
I think ideal is 5'10"-5'11" you are just over average and therefore have little difficulty in reaching the top shelf, etc... but you also don't lack head room in most cars and other pain in the ass stuff...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I think this is a rehash of Ubermench vs. Untermench philosophy.
who earns more ?
Unless Bill Gates is wearing lifts.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
(6 foot) plus (7 inches) = 2.0066 meters
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
I have to question this study. Mr. Judge either forgot or never took an Intro to Psychology class. He certainly can't tell the difference between a correlation and a cause/effect relationship.
This study is a correlation. Perhaps there is a high correlation between height and pay. However, this does NOT mean that height causes higher pay. It could, theoretically, just as easily mean that higher pay causes more height. Or it could just as easily mean that there are other factors that affect both height and pay.
I read a similar study on this topic awhile back and this study did not include an important finding that the other one did. Short people who were tall at a young age have the same advantages, or at least similar. It leads one to believe that the issue is as much about confidence as it is about height.
While eating poo has not yet been linked to higher salaries, kissing butt has...so perhaps you have plausable theory there.
'Cuz that might lead to dancing...
"But I'm a 25 year old virgin for crying out loud. I can't get a girl, I think that's reasonable enough to be able to bitch about, no? "
Two words: star trek. That stupid black Neelix t-shirt you have been wearing is babe repellent. Ditch it. Now.
Maybe this is because shorter men are more likely to suffer from a Napoleon Complex; i.e. more likely to be assholes? In most fields, being a jerk should limit your earnings...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
I've had quite a few short managers over the years. In fact, for both of my previous employers, the owner would be considered 'short.'
The 'napoleon complex' is reasonably well documented, and height can obviously be a motivating factor. (in these cases, perhaps to overcompensate or overachieve). If extreme deficiency in height can be a motivating factor, it seems logical that height (esp. above-average height) should be as well.
I'm successful. Especially when you consider my demographic. I owe a lot of it to competence, sure, but the level I have reached is due solely to confidence. While I'm only slightly above average height, I'm extremely confident, especially about things at which I excel. In order to be making the salary I am, I had to get on a track that would put me here, and that has required my holding fast to the salary requests I've made.
When I change employers I set a high, but realistic target salary, and I know I'm worth it. It's only the confidence in myself and my abilities which has allowed me to do this.
Standing in at 6'7" myself I'd say that your almost completely on target here. While I don't know what others around me make I do feel that I recieve more responsibilities, and more notoriority around the office.
Not to mention the fact that I get laid more than any of those midget dorks that I work with. Chicks really dig us tall guys.
It's True!
When I was just a foot and a half tall, I didn't get a dime. I just sat around crying and being cared for by mom. Now I'm a lot taller, and Hey! I earn more too!
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
How about we eliminate professional basketball salaries and then run that study again.
--JLockard - "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." - Emo Phillips
I think there are a lot of correlations between height and perceived success. However, when running for President isn't the electoral college really the only votes that matter? At least, constitutionally speaking.
To know is to have knowledge....to understand is to be enlightened.
What if they eliminate Pro athletes from the sample pool?
I saw a documentary once where women rated the "date-ability" of men they observed through a one way mirror. All the men were judged to be above average in appearance based on headshots alone.
When viewed in context a taller than average men outranked the smaller men with remarkable consistency. One, identified as having an extensive criminal record, always outscored shorter men. To get the women to accept the shortest (around 5'3") bachelor as "date-able" the researchers had to say he was a doctor who loved to travel on his private jet all over the world and was independently wealthy.
The question isn't whether or taller people are better workers who earn more money through merit, rather it's whether we're still tied to longstanding biological instinct when evaluating people, even in an business context.
-dameron
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!!!
In this article the author states basically the same thing as above, but for a different reason. Apparently, it has been known for quite some time that tall people are paid more, but this journalist opened a slightly bigger door to the reasons being. Quick summary: Tall people are more confident. Confidence pays. But that can't be the only reason can it? One can't deny there is negative media, societal pressures, and even evolution to blame here. So what can we short people do? Well this, or just live with it. Money is just money.
Short people earn less?
It is a fact that Orion Slave Girls are tall. It's a genetic thing, like their near terminal sex drives...
Though it doesn't seem to be working for me, at 6'3"....
The engineering school I went to shares a town with a medium-sized state college. An interesting statistic is that except for one year, our starting salary has always been far above theirs.
That one year was 1979, when Larry Bird (6'9") from ISU signed a $3,250,000 contract with the Celtics.
...
It's not fair! So, who can I sue?
Yes, i'm here to apply for the "circus clown on 30 foot stilts job."
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
I worked at AIG and I had noted to my friends at the time that the height preference at the company was unbelievably obvious. I was amazed that the world's largest financial company would be structured that way, but it was. Each rank had ascendingly taller folks. While there, I attended a AIG-sponsored management program, where I was told that the company culture was a "driver society." 'Driver' referring to a personality type that indicates the person forceably gets their way, period. Therefore I guess the relationship between personality and height is there. I just found it funny that at 5'11" I was among the shorter managers. The average female exec was at least 5'10", and with heels, over 6'. I also have suggested to friends in the past that a study would probably conclude affirmatively that areas with higher incomes (or possibly just by pop. density) would likely have taller people on average. And I gave the specific example of Manhattan vs. outer boroughs.
"Ain't I a stinka..." - Bugs
How would you like to be six inches taller and earn hundreds of thousands more dollars?
You should try our new all-natural herbal enlargement pills!
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
I knew college education was a lie. Now I can use that money to invest in stilts!
-R
Small penises.
When you find yourself doubting this study, consider you behavior around someone that is taller than you. Do you feel a little intimidated? Does your behavior change?
Economics isn't about little knobs on a machine that you twist and turn to see what happens. It isn't bunch of numbers you just munge together.
Economics is about human behavior. That's why you get paid, right? Your little pieces of paper would be worthless if people didn't respond to them. But they do. And you do what you do so you can have these little pieces of paper. Your boss is using them because you respond to them.
People of greater height have an effect on the behavior of others. Maybe they're more likely to motivate others to action. This might mean they make better managers. Maybe their own height gives them more confidence -- they are more likely to succeed because their height affects their own behavior.
Motivation, feelings, happiness, sadness, anticipation, disapointment, etc have a real effect on the economy. You might even say that the economy is the reflection of all these things.
Almost not worth a response...
;)
But I am willing to bet that supply and demand works out so that men earn more in that profession.
Men earn more than women for the same jobs. A lot more. Whether it physician or waiter or nurse, men almost always get paid more. This is a fact. You can check it out at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website. BTW, tall people earning more is OFN.
Ok, I'm being slightly facetious.
But, I'm a 5'10 woman. I think of all the guys I work with, only 3 are taller than me.
One day I'll be boss and can command my own midget army....
...while attractice girls fling themselves at them and they command undue attention in a conference room.
Yes, this is the sad story of my life. One of the problems is that us tallish people tend to be more modest, since we don't have to keep over compensating. So when the pretty girls launch themselves at us we often say, "hey, lady, what the heck are you doing?!" Plus, women never actually throw themselves, they tend to play themselves like smart hooks going after fish. After a while, all that confusingly attractive and yet frustratingly complex female company all blurs and frankly, a Napolean complex is not such a bad alternative.
Except that the pay, as a tall person, is better. Gotta say that's a plus. And the conference thing. That's cool too, once you learn how to put more than one sylable together into a sentence.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
No wonder Shaq makes more money than I do. He's taller!
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
"its because tall people are better"
Yeah, but short women take up less space and have bigger boobs.
~Just keep eating, porky. Fat people are harder to kidnap.
Conjectures:
1. Poor families kids have worse nutrition in average, limiting height development.
Kids from poor families also receive less education.
=> tall people earn more
2. Immigrants from Asian countries are shorter in general. Immigrants also earn less for various reasons.
=> tall people (mainly locals) earn more.
3. Professional sports player earn a lot. They tend to be taller (How many NBA players are shorter than 6 feet?), pulling up the average for tall people.
=> tall people (mainly athelets) earn more.
the rant can go on...
A sig is redundant.
It's called the Halo Effect. People tend to let one characteristic define how they judge people. If you consider taller people more attractive or competent, even unconsciously, when raise time rolls around you can guess who will get better raises. Since you consider a taller person favorably, you will tend to consider everything that person does better. If someone is a very good programmer but missing a front tooth, what's going to stand out most in your mind when you think about that person?
It has also been shown that overweight women tend to accumulate less wealth than their skinny counterparts. Again, one characteristic of a person tends to dominate.
I went to a "good" school in Englnd - Eton College. I would say the average height of people in their last year there is over 6 feet. Out of 10 of us in my house, all but two were over 6'1" by the time we left. It's pretty much the same in other schools I know of, so I am guessing that there is something related to a good (read expensive) upbringing, and your height. Maybe better and more rounded nutrition? Anyway, it would follow that people that went to these schools, and incidentally were taller, will go on to earn more than people who went to state schools, and happened to be shorter. I'm not going to go into why people from these schools earn more, but they do, and i don't think anyone will disagree with that.
Bob Balaban played a network executive on Seinfeld. I think he also played a network executive on Late Shift, the movie about Letterman and Leno.
He's short, but intimidating.
Men pay more attention to women with large breasts than women with small breasts.
After lookin at a few of these threads, I think we need Red Foreman to come in and hose a bunch of guys down.
the bigger the body, the bigger the mind, the bigger the d...
Profits!
Linux: Helping nerds look smarter since the late 90s.
according to "The Effect of Adolescent Experience on Labor Market Outcomes: The Case of Height" (Persico/Postlewaite/Silverman) Here's an easy to read synopsis of the paper: http://slate.msn.com/id/2063439/
It's not that strange that tall people in sales get paid more. A tall person will sell better because people thinks he has a big dick, which makes them jealous. They think they can buy a big dick too, but they do not know that the ePenis is all that matters.
BTW, penile pills > all.
The classic essay on "worse is better" is either misunderstood
I agree, tall people get a certain amount of respect just by their commanding physical presence. It's more likely they'll get noticed, and therefore listened to, and therefore have more opportunities for advancement. But, luckily for the shorts, there are a ton of other meaningless-to-ability traits that can equal things out. Being attractive, outspoken, friendly.. and especially, being *confident*. Here's to hoping I excel in some of those other areas, since my 5'0" stature isn't doing much for me. ;)
I'm 6'5", my boss just left from dropping my check off and obviously he hasn't caught wind of this news. I think it's time we had a talk.
I am also a devleoper raising the ceiling to 6'11". I should be rich at that height but I'm not. Instead I'm worried about much shorter people in far away lands(India, China) that are going to take my job. If I'm unemployed those short people are going to make a lot more than me.
Looking for a job?
Want your resume written professionally?
DON'T USE TUNAREZ!!!
US = Taller caucasian capitalists
China = Short oriental communist
Remember, you can't advance up the management ladder to the uppermost rungs unless you have nice looking hair!
Gr[ae]y is great, but bald is bad!
On a related issue, I recall a study once that showed how elementary school teachers tended to reward "pretty" students more than "average" or "ugly" students.
If you succeed while being ugly, bald, short, and fat, you're accomplishments are the greater for having done them uphill. Of course, my minority friends will still consider you minor league.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
just do a PsychLIT study, this has been known for ages. tall people get leadership positions more often. not necessarily a bad thing, height correlates with IQ which correlates with good leadership.
-- Rolf Lindgren, cand.psychol
The Dutch men are the tallest male population in the world. The average full grown male in the Netherlands is just under "6'1 (american man average at "5'9)
:-)
not claiming this has any relevance to the incoming, just a fun little fact for your friday
A major portion of the surveyed wouldn't be professional NBA players, would they?
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
Hence, the classic song:
Jump For My Love Lyrics
Pointer Sisters
Your eyes tell me how you love me
Can feel it in your heart beat
I know you like what you see
Hold me, I'll give that you need
Wrap your love around me
You're so excited, I can feel you
Getting hotter, oh baby
I'll take you down, I'll take you down
Where no one's ever gone before
And if you want more, if you want more
More, more, more
Jump for my love
Jump in and feel my touch
Jump you want to taste my kisses
In the night then
Jump, jump for my love
Jump, I know my heart can make you happy
Jump in, you know these arms
Can feel you up
Jump, you want to taste my kisses
In the night then
Jump, jump for my love
You told me, I'm the only woman for you
Nobody does you like I do
Then make a move before you try and
Go much farther, oh baby
You're the one, you, you are the one
And heaven waits here at my door
And if you want more,
If you want more, more, more then
When you are next to me, oh I come alive
Your love burns inside
Feels so right
Come to me if you want me tonight jump
Jump if you want to taste my kisses
In the night then
Jump, jump, jump
Jump, you know my heart can
Make you happy
Jump, you know theese arms can feel you up
Jump in, you want to taste my kisses
In the night then
Jump, jump for my love
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Post a pic to prove this. :)
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
They also say men are paid more than women for the same job, overall. And as a general rule, women are shorter than men.
I wonder if height is part of the cause or part of the effect...
It's called the Ilizarov Technique. It was discovered by a Russian doctor and named for him. The basic principle is this: (1) break someones leg, (2) hold it together just like a cast does , (3) tug on it by one millimeter per day, (4) the body fills in the gap with new bone.
Not only that, but the body grows muscle, nerves, blood vessels as required to accomodate the new limb length.
Not only can you make limbs longer, you can twist them back to normal directions, weed out angles left by accidents, etc. I saw an Atlanta Falcons player get his leg lengthened and rotated back into normal position.
Why take bone grafts or coral or cadaver implants ?? Have your body grow its own bone.
Not only that !!! When you take dwarves, and you lengthen their two humorous and their two femurs, it dumps so much growth hormones into the body that the torso, face, etc. grow to more normal proportions.
All in all an incredible technique that is underrated.
Why do I know this? I wrote the original embedded (8051) C software in a robotic distractor which allowed doctors to control this procedure precisely. A doctor could say "I want this limb to grow 1440 times per day, by 1/1440th per millimeter."... or "I want this limb to grow 360 times per day, by 1/360th of a millimeter."
Most fascinating.. the Russians and typical American use is to increase the length of the limb by 1/4 mm four times per day. The device we made allowed much finer control... up to 1/1440th mm 1440 times per day. X-rays showed that the finer, closer to continuous growth "tugging" produced the most normal looking nerve and blood vessels.
I saw this one guy who blew out 8" of his tibia with a shotgun, but the muscle and nerves stayed. Instead of amputating, they brought this guys foot WAY up, so he had this huge ball of muscle on the back of a tiny stump. Then they started growing !!! 200 days later this guy had his entire leg back.
I saw this type stuff again and again while I was helping doctors install the robotic device on patients. Doctors cut a small opening, take chisels to the patients bone, break it, put the frame on, and start the machine tugging the limb apart slowly. It is pure magic.
Deathcow
This list suggests that Dean's campaign is going to be a train wreck. I volunteered at his rally in Wisconsin, and got within a few yards of him. I think that I, at 5'7", am taller than him.
It's too bad, since I don't feel strongly for for any of the other Dems, except Kucinich, who is even worse off in the appearance category. I wish it weren't so, but to win a presidential election in the U.S., you have to look presidential.
Its well known that children that have better nutrition and medical care tend to be taller on average. This has been demonstrated time and again as third world countries become more prosperous.
Parents who are intelligent and successful are much more likely to provide good nutrition and medical care AND better education. This alone could explain the correlation. Although I think it is at least partly explainable by bias against short people.
Arbitrary sig
As your potential (185cm/6'1") coworker I have to say that I care. I will not work with smelly, rude or otherwise obnoxious people if I can at all avoid it. Neither will most people worth hiring.
In the way of "Good looking people earn more"
I did a search for "nutrition" to avoid a redundant post. You missed one of the largest (no pun intended) group of short immigrants: Hispanics. Socio-economically, as a group, they are much further down the scale than Asian immigrants (I haven't seen a lot of Asian immigrants picking strawberries in the hot sun or doing day-labor at construction sites).
The problem with "studies" is that many of the people doing them and reporting on them don't understand that correlation does not imply causation.
As a woman who is 5'1", I am extra screwed when it comes to getting good pay.
I'll just add this to my list of reasons for why I have Napolean's Complex...
****--- A fortune cookie once told me the meaning of life...so I ate it. ---****
I always wear cowboy boots to job interviews. Seriously, I do. The extra 1 1/2" always seems to have a positive impact. Besides, you're more likely to be remembered when you're interviewed along with several other candidates.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
When I was in the Marine Corps they ALWAYS appointed the taller person in charge on details and other odds and ends.
Of course your time in service and rank gave you privllages but they always wanted a taller person in charge.
When the Soviet generals and thier staff came to Camp Lejune in the early eighties to see a Marine Air Ground Task Force excercise The Marine Corps in all thier wisdom chose Marines who were 6ft tall and taller to do the demonstration. The Soviet General Commented on how well the officers executed thier manuvers. The American General said "Thank you. But those are our enlisted men."
30 times $789 is in the hundreds of thousands?
These people make money doing this? And then
other people take them seriously? What did I miss
here?
Sure, being tall has some social advantages, unless you're a woman. But there are other factors.
Healthy people are in general, on average, somewhat better at all things, physical and mental, than others. They are also taller. For example, under nourished kids grow up to be shorter than well fed ones. And their brains, like the rest of their organisms, also develop less well than they had potential for.
So it's no surprise if tall people tend to perform better at most things, even where physical height is not an immediate advantage for the task.
This is in line with the finding that beautiful people are snarter than others. Seriously, research shows!
============
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
LMAO. :)
:)
If the moderation system was working for me today, I'd mod you up myself.
Anyway, no, the lumberjack comment doesn't apply to me.
Bring on the $$$. I've heard this before and I believe that the reasoning behind it is that as a child a tall person is looked up to and learns the social and leadership skills that bring better, higher paying, jobs later in life.
-Tim Louden
Yeah... and men make more money than women, right?
Asians and Hispanic people are on average shorter than a Paleface or Black. And I'm willing to bet that they on average earn much less too.
If race isn't taken into consideration, I'm sure you can make plenty of other "studies" where you imply causes that just are circumstantial correlations. I'm certain that catholics in the US on average earn less than protestants, for example. And really tall people are much more likely to get sickle cell anemia.
Regards,
--
*Art
I'm stumped. How can they be short changed like that? What kind of small minded managers would let a little thing like this happen?
http://www.kubuntu.org/
Fools! Do none of you watch ZIM!?
Is there no end to the supply of short vindictive
bigots in this world? They should just grow up.
Did they base their research on NBA players?
:)
They say that study was based on "thousands" of subjects. Well if there were even a few pro basketball players in it, their income would be sufficient to raise the overall average.
Statistics are a great instrument of argument as they are so easy to manipulate.
On the other hand, if you are taller, more handsome, more ambicious, with a deeper voice etc. your chances to make more money *and* mate more *are* higher
imagine the possibilities of that technique applied to other skeletal parts of your body...
enlarge your skull to make more room for your brain!
elongate your fingers to enhance your grabbing ability!
make your arms longer so you can walk on all fours!
...we can get served in bars or liquor stores at a younger age. Drinking more, younger, makes us smarter. That's why they pay us the big bucks!
A pox on web designers who feel that window.innerWidth == screen.availWidth
Seriously, this is one of the most fascinating medical innovations I've ever heard about.
To the original poster: Do you if any of these orthopedists do "cosmetic" lengthening?
This kind of studies seldom gets it right if they don't take all the important properties of the demographic into account. I wouldn't be surprised if this study didn't take into account that people from the upper classes tend to eat better, and are therefore taller.
There was a similar thing a few years back when some study showed that drinking wine is healthier than trinking beer. It turns out that the study did'n take into account that people from the middle and upper classes drink more wine while drinking beer is more typical of the working class.
you were being sarcastic.
good for you.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
That is why tall guys do better with women than short ones, on the average.
Magnus.
It is also known that women earn less than men on average. It would be interesting to determine how much of the discrepency between male/female income could be attributed to this height affect alone.
Dear Boss,
The workplace is a dangerous environment. A lotta accidents can happen if you're not careful. Like maybe some drops a paperclip and it bends itself straight, flips up and becomes lodged in your eye. A trip to the hospital would be most unfortunate.A big tall strapping dude, such as myself, can prevent things like this from happening to you. All it takes is the addition of "safety advisor bonus" to my paycheck. I'm confident you will find that it's worth it.
Signed,
Bruno
Anybody want a peanut?
This is perfectly explained here
Security is inversely proportional to the commitment of one desiring to circumvent it.
seriously, he's no more than 5'-10". 5'-9" is probably the truth.
have a look about 3/4 down the page on this article at National Review which I might add is a *very* right leaning/pro-Bush publication.
or at this cnn photo of Bush and Putin, keeping in mind that Putin is a *very* short man.
nice try, troll
I can think on one obvious control left out of thier list of controls. I believe it is fairly well established that someone with poor health is less likely to reach thier full height potential. That means you could expect poor people to be shorter, and simply unhealthy to be shorter. I would expect that both of these groups to statistically be paid less that rich/healthy people. If it turns out that rich/healthy people are statistically not taller, or if they had accounted for the difference, this study might have some merrit. Otherwise, they missed at least one control.
I am married to a wonderful lady who is only 4'3" tall. She works for an aerospace company as an engineer (and blond!) and makes over $55K/year. Her company and team have said on several occasions that she is an indespensible resource.
I am 6'2" and have been out of work for almost two years now. And employers are not flocking to my door to hire me because I'm tall.
The amount of money you make depends on how well you perform your job and much the company you work for values you as a person. If you feel that the company you work for is paying you less because you're short: find another company to work for!
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
Expenses tall people have it is not so unequal. I am 6'5" and cannot fit in coach airline seats, I can only shop at rochester big and tall, I needed a queen size bed to sleep comfortably from age 15, I'm more likely to have back problems, more likely to have high blood pressure (which I do), and I am only 18 now. I have another 3 years left.
so 800 bucks a year more per 6 or so inches is supposed to makeup for that difference? Yeah and I really did not enjoy having to bend down to listen to the 5'1" girl I was seeing last year. Oh, and I can't fit in 80% of cars either.
you can also run away from short chicks, especially with high heels. i've never had to, but i am prepared. women terrify me. the smaller the better.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Gattaca.
It's coming. See, if you don't have "perfect" DNA, you're gonna be just a 3rd class peon.
They did the leg surgery on Vincent to make him taller too.
How FUCKING tall are you??? my god man.
BTW - can you get my kite out of the tree?
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
To live
They got little hands
Little eyes
They walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
`Round here
Short People are just the same
As you and I
(A Fool Such As I)
All men are brothers
Until the day they die
(It's A Wonderful World)
Short People got nobody
Short People got nobody
Short People got nobody
To love
They got little baby legs
That stand so low
You got to pick 'em up
Just to say hello
They got little cars
That got beep, beep, beep
They got little voices
Goin' peep, peep, peep
They got grubby little fingers
And dirty little minds
They're gonna get you every time
Well, I don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
Don't want no Short People
'Round here
-- Randy Newman (1977)
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
Wow, I'm listening to that right now.
I know that with the number of people who have MP3 players running on their PCs, there's a good chance that any song mentioned will have someone listening to it as they read the reference, but I still think it's pretty spooky.
let's suppose you take a group of people, and divide them into 2 groups, "short" and "tall". The average of one of these groups will make more than the other.
Then you can say either "short" people earn more, or "tall" people earn more.
This of course doesn't prove or mean anything.
... if you're also rather lightweight in addition to being short, I'd get into aerobatic aircraft performing instead. Since the best aerobatic aircraft are all engine and have no room in the cockpit, you'd "fit right in" so to speak. The best aerobatic pilots are smaller folk too. They can tolerate ridiculous g-forces much better without passing out or throwing up or both.
...because tall people need bigger clothes!
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
correlation doesn't imply causation.
SIGFAULT
This has actually been know for quite some time and by quite a few people. The theory behind it is that taller people tend to "command more respect". It has to do with our Alpha Wolf instincts, subconsiously when a shorter person is negotiating with a taller person, the shorter person puts themselves at a subconsious disadvantage. Over time, this leads to the shorter person's self esteem being lower when compared to that of the taller person, exacerbating the problem. Proof to this? If you are shorter than 5'10" try to fit in a Dodge Viper. The car was designed for business executives (because of it's sticker price). After Dodge had done the research they concluded that the average executive was actually taller than 6'0" (6'1" if I recall) and built the car around a 6'1" body. Even with the adjustable seat, @ 5'9" your feet have a hard time reaching the pedals. Stupid, but true.
On average, this story seems to imply he could expect about $28,404 more per year!
Its true! Extensive stydy among kindergarden children has shown that there is strong correlation between shoe size and intelligence!
It turns out that most of the wage gap can be explained mostly by marriage and children. When you compare men and women who have never had children, it turns out women make 98% of what men make. The following links attempt to explain what may account for some of the remaining 2%. I though I had read that unmarried women with no children make 102% of what unmarried men without any children make. Before you dismiss the following articles as anti-femenist BS, consider this. If nationwide, women with the same work experience in the same jobs made 74 cents on the dollar, don't you think there would be a massive,bankrupting wave of lawsuits in this country?
/ news_detail.a sp
Some references:
http://www.aei.org/news/newsID.17864
The wage gap shrinks dramatically when multiple factors are considered. Women with similar levels of education and experience earn as much as their male counterparts. Using data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, CBO director June O'Neill found that, among people ages twenty-seven to thirty-three who have never had a child, women's earnings are close to 98 percent of men's. Dr. O'Neill notes that "when earnings comparisons are restricted to men and women more similar in their experience and life situations, the measured earnings differentials are typically quite small."
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba392/
When women behave in the workplace as men do, the wage gap between them is small. June O'Neill, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, found that among people ages 27 to 33 who have never had a child, women's earnings approach 98 percent of men's. Women who hold positions and have skills and experience similar to those of men face wage disparities of less than 10 percent, and many are within a couple of points. Claims of unequal pay almost always involve comparing apples and oranges.
I think you've had quite enough, JUSTONEMORELATTE.
WTF is up with the pop-up ads?
... by including the salaries and heights of NBA players. we are normalizing the data now by including some professional jockeys stats.. stay tuned.
Other studies have shown that men earn more money than women. They are also a bit taller. hmmmm
Kids with bigger feet also score better grades than kids with small feet.
Considering the article doesn't go much into how they chose their sample or anything, I think that it would be safe to say that professional athletes severely skew the numbers.
When you consider that most football and basketball players are between 6' and probably 6'8" tall, it isn't hard to imagine that their million dollar salaries don't skew the results for tall people.
This is only, what, the 308th study to reach this conclusion in the past half century? I don't doubt that the compensational difference shifts a percent or two now and then, but it's hardly news.
I would think that, to what extent this is real, it's a correlation, with nutrition being the underlying cause of both the height & the salary (via intelligence). I've heard before that tall people are, on average, smarter than short people. This is because some people are short due to genetics, and presumably have the same average intelligence as the population at large, while others are short due to nutritional deficits (or chemical exposure, or other invironmental factors) that probably also had a toll on mental, as well as physical, development. Thus the cause & effect chain is
(environmental factor) -> (developmental problems) -> {(shorter than would otherwise be) & (dumber than would otherwise be)}, and (dummer)->(poorer on average).
Remember this is all about averages. There's plenty of rich, smart, midgets, just less on average than the rich, smart, giants. And while some braniac midgets are genetically short, others might be stunted due to environmental factors and would have been even smarter than they are if it weren't for the environmental problem. Yet others may be short, dumb as a post for whatever reason (genetic or environmental), and still rich. there's just less of 'em than the tall rich ones.
Just as a side note, I wonder how much bias professional athletes alone throw into this whole equation.
I'd also like to note that some people who are much better informed disagree with me, so you should probably ignore me and go read what they have to say.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
Size Matters Not!...
Empire Strikes Back: Jedi Master Yoda5 times 12 is equal to 60 + 7 = 67, meaning you are a short, 5 feet and 6 inches. Isn't the male national average about 5' 8"?
Karma: Good, or bust!
It was found that being a career basketball player caused your hair to turn blue, along with all those little white ATM reciept slips in your wallet looking suddenly quite a bit greener than when you last looked at them...
[Now, I'm off to lift my le... Um, visit... at another place.]
when the hell will the short people figure out that I have to do much more work to lift anything since I have to lift them higher than a short person.
Hell, try lifting 9 beers to your mouth in a couple of hours. They keep getting heavier and heavier...
Did you buy the CD? If not, off to jail you go...
My other car is first.
It is more of an issue that Short People are paid less. As a shorter build person 5'5" I know from experience. It is a situation when trying to explain something the taller person will always get taken more seriously even when the shorter person makes the better presentation. It is possible in more extreme situations as well where the taller person is talking complete BS while the short person has solid facts. The taller person on the average will win out.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Perhaps they should have controlled for gender in the study.
The cake is a pie
You don't happen to have big tits and wear short dresses do you? From my experience that seems to create situations like yours quite often.
how about you guys?
Sounds like your gripes about being tall are just the result of an unbalanced attitude man.
As far as tall vs short goes, just open your eyes and watch what happens when two attractive men (one short and the other tall) arrive at a party.
All the women check out the tall on, the short one is ignored. And many of the men will defer somewhat to the taller man, and actually employ physical intimidation (often unconsciously) against the shorter one - thru not ceding the 'right of way', etc.
Then imagine having this occur to you day after day through your entire life. Now - do you wonder even for a second why some parents are considering expensive, painful, and experimental surgery and drugs to help their short children grow just a few more inches - and no parents appear to be taking any of the easy steps to stunt their children's growth?
Can't believe no one's mentioned Randy Newman's _Short People_ song yet. Any self-respecting tall person knows that one by heart.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
What I dont like about the article is that they suggeest that being tall is not advantageous and that it is unfair that tall people are paid more.
Being tall has many, many advantages... tall people are percieved differently...perhaps as more intimidating to an enemy, more capable of defending young, able to see over high objects (and crowds), reach things from high places, climb trees even when the lowest limb is out of reach for others. And many other primal benefits.
There is a whole branch of ergonomic design called Human Factors that, for example, indicates that tall people have longer arms and are able to reach controls on a dashboard that short people cannot. (in contrast there are a lot places a tall person simply wont fit...handing the advantage to smaller people)
Tall genes are advantageous. This translates into sexual attraction. Sure, Ive been attracted to many many short women, but I'd kinda prefer a tall one as a mate. In my priorities, this is more important to me than breast size. Sexual attraction helps to sell products.
To say that the benefits of being tall never come up in your typical sales job is ludicrous. Thats a silly assumption on the part of these researchers. Go on a business trip and watch who is able to see over the Mardi Gras revelers, or see the sign over crowds in the NYC subway, stare down the competition at a convention. The tall guy is always being asked to do random stuff "hey can you get my bag in the overhead bin?", "Do you see an allen wrench on top of the server rack?"...and I think its worth an extra thousand bucks a year.
I think they should do a study on who is more confident, tall or short people. Intangable as confidence is...a confident employee is a better employee for a variety of reasons.
Short people have their place too, and in those places they should be paid more...and they usually make sure of it. e.g. Bill Gates, Napoleon, Tom Cruise, et. al.
Yahoo say Tall people earn more. The BBC say Short people earn less. I guess its half full/half empty
I'm not tall, only 5'11, but I'm built like an NFL linebacker, 5'11 225-245 most of the time, 52-55 inch chest (depending on how hard I'm hitting the weights), 18.5 inch arms (or greater) even when I'm not working out, shoulders broad enough to fill out an XXL (or XXXL) shirt even when I'm skinny (I only weigh 200 now), and people usually guess my weight is about 30-40 pounds less than it is, because most of it's muscle. You would be surprised how much that affects how people treat you. My boss was 6'4, 230, but you could tell that he behaved differently around me than my coworker, who was 5'9, 160. It can change things. I've noticed. I wonder if they could do a study of muscle mass and determine how much that affects pay. I try not to use my size when I am around others. Usually I am relaxed, but it can make a difference in a debate. Most people tell me I'm a nice guy, and I enjoy online debate, which is where it's all about the substance of what you say rather than presence.
Why is it you gave to go 5 levels deep in this discussion until the p value is mentioned?
... made a lot of cash, thoughts?
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
It must be true! Lee Majors, whom played the Six Million Dollar man is 6'2". http://www.filmbug.com/db/296873
So not only do taller people earn more money, but they accumulate vast fortunes. Much more than the extra $700 a week would explain.
These statistics might be meaningless unless they excluded all the basketball players. Most of the really rich people I know are also really short. Also note that the Dilbertian PHB is short.
--
My zany take on reality
Back in the 1950's, my father (who is only a mere 6'3") was selected for a sales position over another applicant. He was later told by his manager that the deciding factor was that he was taller.
I put the 'fun' in fundamentalism
Do the regression with the other variables, do the regression without the other variable, compare results.
& oe =UTF-8&q=t+test+restricted+regression&spel l=1
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
..because of money averaged over shorter lifespan due to forehead/door jamb interactions..
And if one of us shortish people brings it up, we're told we have a "Napolean complex", as if they even know what that means apart from that Napolean was also kind of short.
"Alexander the Great. Five feet exactly. Isn't that incredible? Alexander the Great, whose empire stretched from India to Hungary, one inch shorter than me. Oliver Cromwell... the only man with any guts in British history... not a big man at all. Louis XIV: 5'2.5". Charlemagne, dumpy little five-footer-- he's quite a little chap. Atilla the Hun, 5' 1/2"; Cyrano de Bergerac, 5' 3 1/2"... Tamburlaine the Great... 4' 9 3/4"..."
Here I am a shrimp, there I am a TALL shrimp.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Short (this article) + red hair ( http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/14/224821 8&mode=thread&tid=134 ) = not making enough money to handle the pain I'm experiencing from this news.
I, for one, welcome our new Irken Overlords.
Mmm, snacks.
wow. He does a real good job of portraying himself as a pipsqueak, then :/
Trying to eradicate that is ludicrous, for all you meddling social engineers. Reality will always win in the end.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I feel so...shortchanged.
Goo goo g'joob.
Being short, I've researched this topic a bit and while most of the research corroborates this study, another study done by UPenn economists provides an alternative hypothesis. Here's the link to the paper:d =293122
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i
Basically, their argument is that a person's relative adolescent height is a better indicator than their adult height. Short kids who end up tall earn like short people, while tall kids who end up short earn like tall people. You could extend this and probably make some kind of argument about a child's self-esteem and self-confidence as being the ultimate indicator in how well they do as adults.
Check out the "Ladder Theory" at http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.htm l. Height is only one aspect of preferential treatment, whether by a potential employer, or a potential spouse.
Not especially scientific, but intriguing nonetheless.
And tell 'em Randy Newman sent you...
That is all.
With my height (6'6") I should be woth a couple of million right now.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
How tall is Bill Gates then?
I should be making alot of money according to this study. But I don't.... Plus, the fact that I have to pay extra to get larger clothes, shoes, condoms :-P, and better seating in airplanes cost extra, reduced number of cars I can sit in comforatably, which means ultimately I have less take home than my shorter co-workers...
Life is unfair.
I will be starting a tall man support group for those who are feeling discriminated against...
white people are taller
Why Edison was much richer than Tesla?
I wonder if we're going to see a surge in surgical leg extension procedures in the future.
(a torturous procedure, where the bones of the leg are surgically cut, then systematically stretched/rebroken over months to add new length to the healing bone)
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Women are a lot shorter than men on average. So according to this study they would be expected to earn less.
They also spend only 1/2 as many hours in the work force, so they get less experience. They choose jobs with more regular hours and more pleasant work environments.
Put all that together and you are left with nothing for sex based discrimination to explain.
Tall Energetic Confident Stupid = TECSans.
You see these types glide up the corporate ladder, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.
The secret is to act tall. I'm 5'5", but I have a pretty good salary because I act tall. I complain about my clothes being too tight and not being able to fit into airplane seats. I also try to bump my head on light fixtures and other stuff that's hung really low and then complain loudly about why they have to hang stuff so low.
What explains the 4'5" Lady who "allegedly" works at the same company I work at never showing up and still getting an obscenely large paycheck for the little she does?
really off-topic here.
;)
However my $.02 I am a 6'6" male. No outwardly hideous disfigurations or anything of that nature. My dating life is what I would call fair. However, I find that a lot of times women are intimated by my hieght. Precieved as threatening. Granted I am an old punk. So the leather jacket and the boots are still there, but thats about it. With that said, being tall and dating does have its disadvantages as well. Its hard to talk to someone that is scared shitless of you.
If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank
How does that fit in with the general impression, and demographic fact, that there's a certain race amongst us for whom wealth and shortness are both a stereotype and a scientific correlation.
Such race was despised and persecuted by those who admired Aryan and Nordic physical characteristics, while at the same time acknowledged, as they have been throughout history and societies, for their earning ability and financial clout.
The study was controlled for gender, weight and age, but mention nothing about race or social background. I wonder to what extent being tall and high earning would simply be a reflection that someone belongs to a somewhat prosperous background or had been well fed and cared for when growing up. I have seen short immigrants who, both husband and wife, stood af 5'4" yet their offspring who were born in the west stood at near 6". It's also worth mentioning that prosperity in society has led to an increase in average height over time. Europeans and Americans are considerably taller than their ancestors.
Ah, but you fail to take into account that earning power tends to rise with age thus expanding the pool of available money. Parental attention, of course, tends not to be able to expand, though.
The news article says that gender, age and weight were controlled, but not occupation. It would be much more relevant if the study was controlled and divided up according to field of employment. This could easily skew the results. The study mentions professional basketball, but it was not controlled out. As you know, taller people are more likely to play in the NBA, and NBA players make a lot of money. Therefore, a taller person is more likely to make more money if they play basketball for a living. However, since this is averaged in with all other fields of employment, it can make it appear that a taller person is more likely to make more money as a doctor, which is not necessarily true or false and definitely not relevant to the observation of the NBA player. The study (or at least the portion of the study that the article has reported) does not give us enough data for us to conclude that there is causation. The amount per year average can be slightly misleading, as the amount of time spent working was also not controlled. For example, this is the flaw in the often quoted "75 cents to the dollar" figure for the amount of money women make. Perhaps taller people tend to work more. We don't know because the study did not control for this. Also, it would also be very useful if we were given the standard deviation.
Harvard performed the original study, on men only, back in the 20's. They found a strong LINEAR relation between height and income. They have repeated this study many times [last time was in the late 80s] and found that the correlation has never changed.
The Harvard study did check for similar backgrounds: they compared people who had the same degrees [or lack thereof] in the same fields, working in the same jobs, and even broke it down by GPA. By far, the most important determinate for you pay scale is your height--if you are a man.
Why? It was explained as instinct--tall people are more likely to be given authority, and are more likely to have their authority obeyed. Of course, this tendency for humans to defer to the taller also creates a personality more suited to these responsibilities. Thus, they are more likely to move up whatever corporate ladder their near.
If you are at a large corporation, just start taking note of the height of the management-types. I've worked for only two major corporations, but the correlation was undeniable. I was astounded that I hadn't noticed it until I came across the Harvard study and went to the following company meeting.
PS I ran the 789$/inch through my own height: 99.75% accuracy--holy smokes.
Tall Magazine
You short people can use the back issues to stand on.
filmcritic.com - Movie reviews on Internet time
Nader knew he didn't have a chance. He did what he wanted to do: get George W Bush in the white house....just to show how powerful he could be.
Tall People Earn More and they also have bigger dicks too!
Size *does* matter :)
There are tons of scholarships for White Anglo-Saxon Men. How do you think George W. Bush graduated from Yale? On his academic performance?
Well, I thought it was funny!
FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU and then I will piss on your headless carcass, too.
Randy Newman recently said in an interview that he regretted writing that song, because many people take it literally, and don't realise that it is a satire on racism.
In my company (50.000+ hardware and software company) virtually all of the midrange and low-range managers are tall. I have noticed this a couple of years ago, but it took me some time to be sure it's the correct conclusion, as I observed the phenomenon and got to know more managers during the years.
Can't say much about the top managers, as I have never met any of them (as far as I know).
I never thought about the correlation of height and salary, though. That would explain why, a colleague of mine who started to work at the same time as I did, at the same job I did and with the same university and professional background, got 10% more salary at the beginning.
Sigged!
There's one critical element they forgot to incldue in this study: intelligence. Both intelligence and size are closely linked to the nutrients that a person gets while growing up, and in the womb. Could it not be that tall people are simply more intelligent, and thus warrant higher pay due to better performance?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I've always wondered about that, I suspect people with Marfans syndrome skew the number somewhat.
Considering the heart is a muscle I can't imagine it having to work harder over a lifetime would do it harm as such.
I'm happy to hear this news, but I must also point out that taller people, in general, tend to have higher living expenses than you shorties out there.
One simple example: clothing. I cannot buy off-the-shelf pants (my size is 32-inch waist, 36-inch inseam). I have to special order everything, which effectively eliminates sales on such attire.
Another: transportation. I cannot fit in anything smaller than a midsize car (anything below a Saturn L-Series is out) and the best fit comes with a full-size sedan (or an SUV...), which means that I'll be spending $10,000 more than average on a car. If I take a plane, I'll have trouble sitting in coach; either spend more time (and time is money) at the airport in order to get a bulkhead seat or upgrade to business or first class.
It ain't easy being tall, but then again, being tall, thin (190 lbs), and having a 10.3:1 ratio between standing height and height "lying down" as it were tends to make me more popular with the ladies... ;o)
Being almost 7 feet I agree...
:(
Damn where is my check? oops i am unemployed
I'll tell you where the money will probably go:
- Oversize clothes and shoes.
- Oversize bed, mattresses and bedding.
- Big car.
- Plane and train rides only possible in 1st/business class.
~700$ more every year? Yeah, big deal, thank you very much.
Believe it or not, you are right - the act of conducting research on rats increases the likelyhood they will develop cancer. It is common knowledge that stress increases the risk for cancer. Strains of lab rats and mice used for cancer research are bred to be cancer-prone anyway, and the stress of being studied increases the cancer rate of the study-group. One study in the 60's learned that just the act of picking mice out of their cages daily for weighing (by the tail) caused a measurable increase in the cancer rate. As a control, good studies now pick up all mice and treat them all identically in this and other ways.
So, the answer to your question is - yes, the researchers probably controlled for the other variables in the height study. These sorts of controls are de rigeur these days in any study outside of junior-high science class.
Incidently, this height/success relationship has been known for years. Not sure why this is being treated as news.
Now even the median is a challenge.
It's no wonder that women so consistently get their bitch asses whipped. They spread their legs based on height. They deserve every beating, every skull fracture, every murder.
Look at match.com or wherever. Height is an important criterion for all but a very few, and they're probably lying. Does it matter that the bitch is fat? Does it matter that she's old? Does it matter that she's dumber than dog droppings? Nope, she wants her cooze a tall man.
Filthy cunts!
Biggest bullshit cover your ass thing to say about another person
A tall, or even average, person with ambition is just that, ambitious, a go-getter.
A short person doing the same is compensating for height.
What are the tall people compensating for?
Fucked from the start.
Mechanics, to be more specific. It turns out that there are rules governing motion in the world around us. Check it out, dude!
...get to eat the leaves from the higher branches that you can't reach, so nyah!
I have to laugh when I read stuff like this; both the articles and the comments. It's a perfect example of a dork mindset of 'input X in, output Y out'.
Short guys: Take a walk outside to, say, the local mall. Notice how many people shorter than you are holding hands with hot chicks (and by this, I mean truly hot, not Slashdot 'she looks at me! she talks to me!' hot). Take heart.
Short & tall guys: Having this discussion here is sort of like a guy with pancreatic cancer worrying if he brushes his teeth enough. Virtually all of you have bigger problems and self-deception issues to deal with than worrying about this. Such as being dorks.
Tall guys who post here snidely with the 'hot girlfriends': Don't be ridiculous. This is like two fat girls going, "We don't have small racks like that cheerleader chick!" It screams that you are playing up your strengths to compensate for your flaws, the prime one being (you guessed it) being a dork.
You're short, I presume?
I'm not fat. I'm not dumb. I don't beat people. I don't judge potential dates right of the bat. You do. Cunt-breath!