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Sen. Hatch to Introduce Wide-ranging Copyright Bill
The Importance of writes "C|Net News is reporting that a new copyright bill, to be introduced next week by Sen. Orrin Hatch, will likely overturn the Betamax decision (which held that VCRs were legal) and threaten all sorts of innovation. EFF broke the story and Copyfight has been all over it. Don't miss the comments of law professor Susan Crawford who says, 'This is amazing. Now we're waaaaaay beyond contributory and vicarious theories of liability, which are court-created and pretty darn broad on their own.' Text of the bill here and PDF."
the Induce Act was scheduled to be introduced Thursday by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
Senator Hatch has a powerful incentive in attacking P2P networks (see #'s 7, 15, 18).
Oddly enough, by the same logic he's using in this legislation prescription drugs should be illegal because they can be used to kill as well as heal. But since the rest of his top contributors are pharma co's he isn't likely to raise that as an issue is he?
Sigs cause cancer.
Sigh. Is anyone actually surprised anymore by yet another attempt to remove more freedoms? I thought progress was being made with the bill to remove the more dangerous elements of the DMCA, and now a new "Free Speech Killer"... The world's going to hell in a handbasket.
I haven't been following too closely, but it seems like he just keeps coming up with stuff like this, and just keeps getting smacked down, because even an idiot can tell it's not reasonable. Why doesn't he find a new cause?
Orrin Hatch has been in the pocket of the recording industry for ages. Could it have something to do with the disproportionate royalties he receives for his avocation as a "popular song writer?"
What a pile of cack...
And this changes things how?
People are still gonna copy stuff.
from Sen. Hatch.
I'm probably at the karma cap. Mod up a funny troll instead, it lightens the mood
I don't think it stands a snowball's chance in hell, but as it might, we'd better make sure to make our side of the case clear. Hatch may want to blow up our computers, but I hope there are some senators who realize that "He took away your VCR" won't go well on the campaign trail.
They may as well just outlaw breathing as well. With that breath of air we could decide to copy something which would be illegal.
"Your Rights Online: Sen. Hatch to Introduce Wide-ranging Slashdot Execution Bill"
/. know about these bills.. someone has to do something, the general public needs to know whats going on.. having flamewars on /. isn't going to stop this.. Doesnt ANYONE have the ability to get this in major news outlets? No one from CNN or something reads slashdot?
/. about how our rights are being taken away and then no one else i know offline knows anything is happenning. FUCK!!!
Might as well, since it seems only people on
I'm so sick of reading on
It would be fine it the length of copyright was also reduced to say 7 years instead of the infinite lifespan copyrights have now. Not really infinite, but anything copyrighted right now will remain so long after I die.
And why do the Utahans keep voting for him?
The Induce Act stands for "Inducement Devolves into Unlawful Child Exploitation Act,"
See? Stop being mean to them. They're not corporate shills trying to control culture and take away computers. They're doing it for the children. Think of the children. Don't you care about the children? I, for one, welcome our new child-protecting overlords.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
I have said it many times and probably will say it many more ...
...
/.'ers feel the same way ??
Along the same lines as the parent becomes the child and the child becomes the parent
Seems like the Russians are becoming more Democratic and the Democratic (society) is becoming more Communistic.
Is it just me or do other
Only by offending consumers and performing in-house raids to confiscate VCR's and arrest their owners, is it possible to get the public outraged. Non-slashdot-readers don't hear about bad laws until they're passed. Outrage from the general public will wait until this passes.
I'm probably at the karma cap. Mod up a funny troll instead, it lightens the mood
That should make for some interesting news when nearly every household in America would be in violation of the law - what, are they going to storm down every home who has a vcr that is capable of 'recording'? They never cease to amaze me - whats next - the cassette recorder?? Or how about my camcorder?
Child Exploitation? Child Exploitation? This has about as much to do with child exploitation as it does with farming subsidies or strategic national defense. The only reason this has "Child Exploitation" in the title is so that Hatch et al. can demonize anybody who opposes this as "having voted against protecting children from exploitation".
This is not about protecting America's children against exploitation; this is about protecting the revenue stream of a powerful business lobby.
Senator, you're a schmuck and a tool. The afterlife, if it exists, will most likely be a very unpleasant place for you.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Congress can't overturn a decision by the Supreme Court, thats a convenience of having a well-designed government. What they can do is change the law, which would effectively allow someone to sue using the Betamax issue all over again. If this case makes it to the US Supreme Court, the Court could choose to apply the new law, or the old, or throw out the new, or the old, or somewhere in between.
So while Orrin Hatch may be a sleazy politician, he's not the Darth Vader who will pervert and destroy the entire copyright system in the US. (yeah, yeah, the ??AA has already done that, ha, ha, +1 Funny)
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
If P2P software makers are in danger, can copiers and scanners be far behind?!?! No stupider than their arguments.
Next thing you know people will sue cigarette manufacturers when they die from lung cancer that has been warned about for years...
LETS DECOMPOSE & ENJOY ASSEMBLING
...to vote Libertarian. Question for conservatives: What the hell do you see in Republicans these days? They've become a bunch of right-wing socialists at this point.
Originally, the Induce Act was scheduled to be introduced Thursday by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, but the Senate Judiciary Committee confirmed at the end of the day that the bill had been delayed. A representative of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a probable co-sponsor of the legislation, said the Induce Act would be introduced "sometime next week," a delay that one technology lobbyist attributed to opposition to the measure.
Does anyone know who opposes this in the Senate? They deserve a cookie.
My reading of the bill is that the law would not overturn Betamax so much as explicitly prevent Betamax from being applied to digital media. Betamax and VHS were both analog formats with cumulative degradation, that is, a copy of a copy was degraded, and at enough generations the quality would be unusable. Perfect digital copies, however, do not have this limitation, and it is merely common sense that they should be covered by a different law. Betamax was a Supreme Court decision, and it cannot be overturned by an Act of Congress unless Congress retracts the right of Judicial Review. Rather, this law extends stronger protections to the more powerful (and therefore dangerous) process of digital copying.
Screaming and histrionics aside, I don't know how else you could prevent digital theft. For years, Democrats have argued that to stop gun crime, we must outlaw guns. This is common sense. Why now do we reverse our logic? To stop digital copying crimes, we must outlaw digital copying.
If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
you try to take our guns and now we can even save our necks, let alone yours, thanks.
I know I'm feeding a troll here... but, um, last time I checked it was still legal to carry guns in America, even assault weapons if you don't conceal them. The hippy leftist scum tried to disarm you and failed.
The reason you can't get your freedom back with bullets is that bullets don't do much to stop tanks and air-to-ground missiles. And it's not the hippy leftist scum who've been increasing military funding all this time, and it's not the hippy leftist scum who've been giving the army urban combat experience and special training against militiamen patriots with light assault weapons like yourselves...
Duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-BWWAAAAANGGG!
... All hail Putin! God save the King!
Welcome. Welcome, to the New World Order.
America is now what the Soviets used to be
This would pretty clearly target the telcos, if you couldn't move the packets, nobody would be able to pirate this stuff.
This would pretty clearly target the network equipment manufacturers, if you couldn't move the packets, nobody would be able to pirate this stuff.
This would pretty clearly target Intel/AMD/Motorola and any other manufacturer of microprocessor that can be used to convert this pirated media into something visual/audible.
The list goes on and on.
Casca
Hello, I'm Copyright Bill. I'm a wide-ranging evil doer who can be found inhabiting a wide range of computers also inhabited by my cousin, Gates Bill. Fortunately I'm doomed to irrelevance in the long run. Grr, I hate those Open Source people. Remember kiddies: killing Copyright Bill is stealing! In the long run your poor old mother will be out of a job and starving on the street. You don't want that, do you? See, I thought not.
Anyone remember the time traveller John Titor, and how he claimed the US was going to descend into civil war over loss of freedoms starting next year... Starting to not look good... Check it out
IANAL, but by reading the text of section 2 of this proposed legislation, the impression I am left with is that, by saying the simple phrase, "Download X here" (Or even by just saying "Download X" if X is a copyrighted work) that I am violating copyright law. Tell me, how with those 2-3 words am I stealing money and/or intellectual property from anyone?
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
There is just something wrong about advocating PRISON TIME for someone commiting a nonviolent offense WITH NO PROFIT MOTIVE. Unlike the previous boogeyman of drug laws, nobody is even being hurt here - hence the whole idea of fair use. There's just something fundamentally wrong here. These proposed bills are getting crazier and crazier.
Legislators in Canada (I am not an American. YMMV) looked at this and while recognizing a problem, rejected the notion of stiff criminal penalties for this kind of thing. This concerned me here enough to write a detailed letter to the committee reviewing these laws in Canada.
Control over media devices has another impact to - it's about control over the PRODUCTION OF MEDIA. With so much news and speech regulated THROUGH the media, this is tremendously important for the future of free speech in the USA.
Sigh, sometimes I think the world went mad while I wasn't looking. You just don't put people in PRISON for sharing a SONG with NO PROFIT. There is this thing called CIVIL law. Sue him into the ground, sure. Prison is where you put murderers and rapists - not copyright infringers. I wonder how many politicians in the USA would see the irony if they looked back at the treatment of international patents over historical timescales.
Arrgh! Please, get involved in this process and get organized. DO SOMETHING.
-dameron
is a bill outlawing Oriin Hatch, the RIAA and others like them that are anti-american and try to take away our freedoms.
With the broad copyright laws we have now, this would destroy innovators. Imagine having to ask around to all the big media companies for permission before publishing your story of "An ordinary girl who discovers she is actually royalty"
what? what I thought we were in the trust tree in the nest, were we not?
1. Find people to research "political contributions" to Orrin Hatch from the Record Industry.
2. Find more people to research the reaffirmations of Copyright Restrictions by Orrin Hatch.
3. Match up the dates of the contributions and the dates of the introduction of Copyright Restricting Legislation.
4. $$$ Profit $$$ (Sorry, I see this often.)
4. Actual next step. Orrin Hatch is revealed to be nothing more than a political mouthpiece for hire.
Doh! That was obvious... [BACKSPACE][BACKSPACE][BACKSPACE]
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
IANAL, but won't this have a "chilling effect" on technology? Isn't it one thing to go after people who break the laws, rather than going after people who might offer ideas on how to break the law (or ideas with other applicability)? I guess this is one of the reasons I can not find anything which will record streaming media on the internet, and I have looked and looked and looked. One of my professors has his lectures streamed on-line, and I wanted to copy it to watch it later, but could not. I guess with this law, if someone made software to copy that streaming content, it would be illegal. Oh well, less power to the people I guess.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
"Inducement Devolves into Unlawful Child Exploitation Act of 2004."
What!!???
Using peoples' fear of child exploitation as a tool to push through draconian copyright measures to help BigCorp Inc. is despicable.
Surely this _is_ child exploitation.
It's bad enough that there are sickos in society preying on children for their bodies without someone to then abusing that exploitation to steal their legal rights.
Fascist Alert.
seems he's pretty old (like the name "orrin" didn't give that away, though - or being a senator). hopefully soon he'll do as all a favor and die.
A forthcoming bill in the U.S. Senate would, if passed, dramatically reshape copyright law by prohibiting file-trading networks and some consumer electronics devices on the grounds that they could be used for unlawful purposes.
:
just that last bit again
they could be used for unlawful purposes
that applies to, well, everything. I could easily murder someone by smashing their head in with my laptop.
Surely, by this logic, my laptop should be banned, given that it can be used for an illegal purpose?
or is it just friday and I'm just as drunk as your average legislator? hell, I can't tell.
Screw you all! I'm off to the pub
I, for one, welcome our new Mormon overlords.
While they're going so enthusiastically about crushing "piracy", I suggest they add "creation" to that list. The only way they'll ever be happy is when there "IP" (hate that term) left to copy.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
"I'm so sick of reading on /. about how our rights are being taken away and then no one else i know offline knows anything is happenning."
Why don't you do something about that? Spread the awareness.
Proletariat of the world, unite to kill corrupt politicians
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
...I would recommend that you do the same. Looks like a full court press while the Republicans control everything...too good an opportunity for the greedheads to pass up.....
Not intentionally trolling, but is it any wonder why other countries don't accept our way of governing with open arms.
US Ambassador sales pitch on democracy:
"So look, get get all this freedom in a 'democracy', but the trick, and you'll love this, is that you have the freedom to take away freedom. Now don't do it right away, give them 100 or so years and then start doing it slowly so that no one notices til it's too late. It also helps to get in bed with big business cuase oil or not, cash is king."
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Utah. He's from Utah.
Since they "aid" and "abet" copyright infringement, normal CD Burners would also be illegal under this law. It's as if Sony Music wants Sony Electronics to stop making devices that are obviously designed solely to pirate their copyrighted works.
Ralph Nader called Washington DC a "corporate-occupied terrority," and I think we need little proof beyond this bill to bolster his claim.
Giant corporations walk into a congressman's office, just flat-out order him to introduce a bill that their lawyers wrote that suspends the Constitution so that they can make a little bit more money, and the congressman goes right along with it, apparently without a moment's hesitation.
As far as enforcing this law, I cannot imagine in a million years that any standard of fairness would even be considered in its application. As Drummond states in Inherit the Wind, "I say that you cannot administer a wicked law impartially. You can only destroy. You can only punish. I warn you that a wicked law, like cholera, destroys everyone it touches -- its upholders as well as its defiers."
When people who innocently use technology like TiVo and VCRs and CD burners start getting randomly sued and arrested by RIAA and MPAA members, I can only hope that the public outcry is strong enough to reverse the trend. But I fear that the opposite will happen, that we'll all be huddled under our bedclothes, shivering in fear that the giant corporations will come after us next. Terrified that armed corporate goon squads, deputized under the banner of protecting copyright, will break our doors down, confiscate our computers and home entertainment systems, and lead us off in handcuffs, we'll do anything to protect ourselves from them, even if it means testifying against a neighbor, friend, or family member. Boy, do I hope that I'm just being paranoid.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Apr/04192003/utah/49303 .asp -- "I'm not here to justify polygamy," he said. "All I can say is, I know people in Hildale who are polygamists who are very fine people. You come and show me evidence of children being abused there and I'll get involved. Bring the evidence to me."
Hatch said he could not take unsubstantiated claims and enforce law, and he would not "sit here and judge anybody just because they live differently than me. There will be laws on the books, but these are very complicated issues," Hatch said.
These congressman are paid hitmen and are all corrupt because the system is about lobbying(which needs to be outlawed). Lobbying = Corruption. This should not be a lobbyocracy but a democratic republic.
that would be cool. i get sued, cause on my website i have a link to the Good Dude who has a link on his site to the Common Dude and this one has a link to the Bad Dude who actually has a link to an evil cd ripper.
there is nothing evil about this new bill, it's just an excusion for the office dudes to surf the whole day on pr0n ("errh, i was just hunting copyright infri..uhm, you know, this bad copyright thingy. now piss of chief, there're a lots of cubicles for you to check")
beer as in "free beer"
He's been one of the big supporters of the Pirate Act (allowing the DoJ to file civil suits against file swappers) and the Induce Act (blog) which seeks to hold those that "induce" copyright infridgements criminally liable.
Here's some more information on him. I guess some people should just not be reelected...
i have a social disorder and i dont like leaving my house.. so i cant do it.. but i can complain about it on /. and hope someone else does it for me =P
So why dont YOU do something about it?
and industry puppet. I wish the CNet story pointed out that Orrin Hatch's official website was found to be running unlicensed software a few days after his acclaimed suggestion to destroy "pirates'" machines.
Amusingly, an AC discovered that one of the links on the website was linked to a pr0n website as some /.arrs may remember.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Seriously, under the umbrella of "building tools that could be used to break copyright laws" we could put copiers, cd burning hardware and software, and continue going till reach pencils and the human brain itself.
And the argument against p2p is very nice also. Not only p2p is used for er... lawful things (i.e. smaller linux distribution torrents), but file sharing is a good part of what is internet.I could see the day where the authors of www, mail, ftp, gopher, etc are jailed because they creations "induce copyright infringements".
Next thing they will do is try to penalize worms and programs that behave like them and they will go after SETI, grid technologies and internet itself.
This is a nice trend, how much we must wait for laws that bans thinking?
And, as corny as it sounds, write your elected officials. They are less likely to do something stupid like this if people speak up and let said official know he or she is being watched by a voter. If you don't tell them this is important then they don't care about it at all. But, if you play the "write a letter card" you can play off of two things: 1) hopefully you have an official who actually gives a shit what you think; or, and most likely, 2) their sense of self-preservation and their need to not aggravate voters (especially in election years).
Why would this also not also render TIVO illegal?
"So why dont YOU do something about it?"
I am. Every willing ear hears about these things from me. I'm on a number of mailing lists I bring these sort of things up any time they pop up.
Get off your ass and send some Emails, if you can't leave your house.
Proletariat of the world, unite to kill corrupt politicians
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
Apparantly he hasn't had to deal with the effects of such abuse, or he just has no soul. Otherwise he wouldn't be trying to profit off of such pain. Feh.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
I wanted to find the bill to see which senators are sponsoring it so that I could post their numbers and addresses. People need to call them. You can always track a bill and see who the sponsors are. Unfortunately, I can not find it on Thomas.
Now that the primary means of interstate trade is via information exchange, look for all sorts of ways that the government is going to try and is presently trying to get as many fingers into the information economy pie as possible. This is really just to establish regulatory agencies. If hatch could put a "protect the children" clause in there somewhere, he would.
-- lk t lv ll th vwls t f wrds. T svs lts f tm t wrt bt ts pn n th ss t rd nd mks m lk lk cmplt dpsht.
it is running Linux. Weird.
Google confirms: Ruby is the world's most beloved programm
You all got what you deserve because in the end, you don't care, and you don't pay attention. Screw my karma, and screw Orrin Hatch, and to hell with anyone who voted for that bastard son of a bitch.
WWJD? JWRTFA!
If this does pass and the VCR is held accountable for copyright infringement, then it sets some interesting precedent: Who's to say then that gun manufacturers couldn't be held liable for shooting deaths - They know their products, which some contend have "legitmate uses", are also used to conduct violent crimes. Auto manufacturers know their products are used as getaway vehicles, cell phone manufacturers know that drug dealers and pimps use their products to conduct "business", etc, etc, etc...Heck, even Dixon Ticonderoga and Cross could be held liable - people write down shady things, bad checks, commit plagerism, and stab people in the neck with their products, and where's the public outcry? Where's the massive multicorporate lobbyist pressure to outlaw these sticks of doom?
Well, it would seem this ultimatly targets the artists.
After all if they didn't produce the work in the first place, there would be no one induced to copy it with out their permission.
There would be no one that facilitates the unathorized copying.
So in the end, the only persons to blame are the artists them selves for producing the work that induces millions of unathorized copies!
...a new copyright bill, to be introduced next week by Sen. Orrin Hatch, will likely overturn the Betamax decision (which held that VCRs were legal) and threaten all sorts of innovation.
...a new copyright bill, to be introduced next week by Sen. Orrin Hatch, would, if passed, likely overturn the Betamax decision (which held that VCRs were legal) and threaten all sorts of innovation.
And I don't think there's a chance in hell of that happening.
I am not a lawyer, and I don't understand this bill...
... it's one page ... and I still don't understand what it's saying. It's got something about exploiting children, then it's got something, rephrased in 5 or 6 different ways along the way, about infringing copyrights so that the sale of an item is no longer viable.
Seriously, I read the thing
What the heck do children have to do with it?
If you want to talk about exploiting children, why don't you start with
Don't worry. We'll have plenty of trained fighters, just keep Rockstar going and the practice of stealing tanks and stuff from the GTA series is going to prove invaluable.
Marv
Trusting software vendors is no smarter than trus
Here we have another debate about copyright.
What do you think? Will we settle it this time? Will we have copyright anarchy or copyright enforcement? If we're too permissive, we'll have no information economy!
What a false dillemma.
Have you really seen how strict we're thinking of making our copyright rules?
Freedom and privacy are in themselves valuable. And strict enforcement of copyright is simply incompatible with freedom and privacy.
But, actually, neither freedom nor privacy are the most important reason to avoid becoming "too strict" about copyright.
Our _economy_ requires us not to be too strict.
Remember, our whole world is, and has always been, engaged in massive, systematic violations of copyright law. So let's look at why that is, and what purpose it serves, before we rock the boat too quickly.
For a minute, let's set aside mix tapes, and libraries, and the VCR, half your childhood singalongs in school and around the campfire - all of which are illegal, and might not have happened under a "strict" copyright regime.
Lets head to the everyday world of the home and office, where almost every other computer has some illegally duplicated software or media on it. Sooner or later somebody brought a CD or some music from home, or installed WinZIP without paying for it. Only WinZIP is the tip of the iceberg. Many of the most copied software titles are "programs for work." Microsoft's Office, or Windows. Visual C++. Macromedia's Flash or Director.
It gets copied because it's very expensive, and the people who want to use these tools can't always afford them.
This stolen software is used to do work. It writes school papers. It creates art projects. It produces other software, from desktop applications to web sites to video games (even some really big titles you've all bought in the store). It is used by the attorneys of companies suing other companies for copyright infringement, and certainly by the children of everyone concerned. "Stolen" media is present all around you, like air and water, in virtually every workplace, and in every home, used for writing love letters, wiling away hours in hospital beds, researching cancer, and even fighting crime and educating our children. (Yes, even police and schools have been prosecuted by the "BSA" - the software industry's copyright enforcement arm.)
Perfect enforcement of copyright has never been possible, or even close - so only egregious violations of it are prosecuted (big companies that could afford it, but chose not to pay, or stalls on the street - actually trying to sell the stolen goods). The rest pass by, unremarked, uncredited - often even without our noticing.
This stolen softare, present in everywhere, from the halls of giants like EA, Microsoft, and IBM (despite their own best efforts to stop it) to little companies all over the country, has been used to do work that made billions of dollars in the marketplace.
Copying, whatever its costs, has enormous benefits. It's like a magic lubricant, empowering our business and creative activities and enriching our lives - subtracting the mythical "last 5%" from the copyright holder, while adding 500% to the society as a result.
Imagine if a poor person could magically borrow a wealthy man's house. He could shower, eat in the kitchen, he could read the wealthy man's books, change into the wealthy man's clothes, and when walking out the door, get a better job.
Now what if millions of poor men could all live in the rich man's house at the same time as its owner did, without anyone ever meeting each other? What if the kitchen was always full no matter how many people it fed?
This is the magical world of "intellectual property" - where the very term "property" makes us want to protect our ideas as though only one person could possess them at a time. Yet we all know that's not true. Ideas have a different set of rules. As has been observed many times already, "Intellectual Property" many not be
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
They can take my VCR when they pry it from my cold dead hands
If they outlaw peer to peer filesharing, only outlaws will have peer to peer filesharing.
Yes it is.
p ush for the next extension. And if that doesn't go, no doubt the RIAA will assume the extension mantle before Elvis and the Beatles copyrights expire, if someone else doesn't do so, before.
Without some form of fundamental reform, there will be ANOTHER copyright extension when Steamboat Willie gets set to go public domain. That is, unless Disney goes under. But in that case, no doubt whoever buys up Disney's assets will buy the legislators^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
Or as Lester Thoreau once said, "Present trends never continue." Assuming that, we have two outcomes:
1: Between corporate-greed-drive outsourcing and ??AA-driven shackles on technology, the US will lose its edge. Having bought protection from competition, the ??AA will get even more fat and lazy, and (currently) third-world upstarts like Bollywood will take Hollywood's place in the world entertainment market.
2: Someone in the US government exercises a little wisdom and forsight, and undertakes some fundamental reform of IP Law, bringing it back in line with the intent of the framers of the constitution.
In Vermont we're shaping up to have a battle between Patrick Leahy and (formerly accused of being a carpetbagger, but now has 7 years residence instead of 1) Jack McMullen. It would HURT Vermont to lose Leahy's seniority. But from what I can tell, Leahy is right behind Hatch on copyright, and it might well hurt the nation more to keep him in. I need to research this, knowing nothing of McMullen's position.
Too bad most geeks are apolitical, otherwise we might be able to raise enough consciousness and votes to make a difference, here.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
It's been proven over and over so this should come as no big surprise to any of us. It's counter to my existing Fair Use rights. They just keep chipping away at freedom. We're being legislated to death... SIGH..
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
A past scandal in congress was over institutional supporters of politicians buying lots and lots of a book written by that politician. Maybe the books were in a warehouse or distributed free to members afterwards but the money was "royalties".
The above paragraphs probably have nothing to do with each other.
Well, Abraham Lincoln said that the best way to get an unfair law repealed is to enforce it fully and swiftly. Does Hatch have children? If so, do they download music? Give them a mandatory 10 year sentence or whatever the hell they are doing now to punish people for downloading music. What pisses me off is that these laws NEVER apply to the people (and whomever gives them money) who are passing them. I bet you good money that if Hatch's kids got put in jail for downloading music or some other such fucking nonsense, he'd have a bit of a different view of things. If this law passes and it "makes VCRs illegal", then yes, I want the cops to just walk down the street house to house arresting people because of it. Let's see how easily Hatch gets re-elected then.
Congress can't overturn a decision by the Supreme Court, thats a convenience of having a well-designed government.
Your "well-designed government" was designed by this thing called The United States Constitution, which states, in no uncertain terms:
Of course, The Constitution ain't the most politically correct document these days, and goodness knows the courts don't give a damn about it...The wording in this act is just too frickin' *vague*. If it could be construed to affect VCRs (which do have substantial legitimate uses) then it could be construed to affect copy machines, printers, or just about anything else.
In fact, that PDF of the act I just read might be effectively outlawed as well! I mean, how could Congress function without copy machines, printers, e-mail, websites, and all sorts of other tools that can potentially be used for copyright infringement? It would shut down entirely!
Hmm... actually, maybe this isn't such a bad idea after all...
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
....CD and DVD burners, FTP servers, email, news groups, IRC, instant messenging, proxies, open APS,and etc. all potentially illegal or will be required to be so crippled by law in hardware and software as to be almost useless. And that leaves out being grouped with international blow things up terrorists and child molesters by legal definition. What's it's gonna take to get people to wake up? Wait until AFTER they get "detained" and disappear into some new gulag? Hasn't history been noted yet? If government can't get you to become a criminal normally, they will keep passing laws after laws until such a time as you are a "legal criminal". This has got to be beyond obvious by now you would think.
It's well past time for top to bottom "regime change" in washington DC, replace the entire demon-crap and republi-cons parties. Too corrupt, too much in the pockets of international corporations who got monopoly and command and control and surveillance and some sort of failed "we are the elite so you must obey"-ism on the brain. A technofuedalistic two class global society is NOT a good policy to embrace.
this is not news. hatch is a puppet of the entertainment industry, and could not give less of a damn about consumers or other non-filhty-rich-corporations-that-finance-his-elec tions-and-causes. he's a whore, plain and simple.
You know, I think that this would be great. Lets make everything relating to copyright infringement illegal. These guys are so blind and stupid when it comes to the ramifications, I think it is high time we just let these thing continue successfully.
Maybe when stark raving mad mobs pull them out of their homes in the middle of the night, would they "get it"! Maybe then, when people leave this country in droves, would they get it! Maybe then, when these companies (and governments that support them) go down in flames, would they get it.
This is sickening!! It makes me glad to be a dual citizen. But then, the US's policy seems to infect everyone they are aligned with.
Maybe I should start hurling bombs to get someone to listen??
Talk about a total lack of respect for anything that is decent. I must say that I am *NOT* proud to be an American this day.
WOW!!
Whoa! I'm tripping my nut sack into a frenzy of dik play!
Isn't this the same genius who proposed that everyone committing digital copyright infringement should get their computers blown up, only to be revealed a few days later that his home page was made using illegal pirated software? What a schmuck.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
I read a book once called 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers'. There's lots of stuff in there that could be used for unlawful purposes. For example, Newtonian mechanics. Someone better bring that to Sen. Hatch's attention...
Stop inflicting this pain on your fellow Americans by keeping this Bozo in power.
First the DMCA and now this....
Sheesh
Hatch is a conservative Mormon who has denounced pornography in the past and who suggested last year that copyright holders should be allowed to remotely destroy the computers of music pirates
I think they misspelled "moron"
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
Assume this law passes, so it's illegal to show someone how to infringe copyright. Now certainly, murder is a worse crime than copyright infringement, so if it's illegal to show someone how to infringe copyright, it should also be illegal to show someone how to commit murder. Right?
Once that law passes, you sue the MPAA for every violent R-rated movie for showing people how to use a gun to commit murder (or they just quit making those kinds of movies, in which case they lost a large percentage of their revenues).
Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
Time to don the armor and sharpen the sword. This story is just one of many that could stiffle innovation. We will enter a Technology Dark age where nothing new can be created. AAAHHHH THE END IS NEAR.
Hopefully others in congress will wake up and quash these types of bills instead of the hard way like usual.
I can't use my sig - my computer can't read my handwriting.
Actually, it's the conservative that is most likely to object to this kind of thing, being opposed to big governement intrusion into individual freedoms, etc.
And last I heard, you didn't need to be a mormon or live in Utah to be an ass -- and I know enough mormons and utahns to know that neither one of those things automatically makes you an ass. But a penchant for overgeneralizing might automatically qualify one as an ass . . .
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. But when life gives you crap, please don't make a beverage out of it.
so would this be as far reaching as making scanners, printers and photocopiers illegal? as they *could* be used to violate copyright law?
Where does it stop? scanners and copiers and printers can all be used to reproduce copyrighted materials....
1. When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.
Read the post Dufus! He's asking HOW to do that - he's not looking for a stupid,unhelpful comment like yours!
I don't see jokes about Jews getting modded up as funny every time a Jewish name appears on /.
Go back and search for the story on the Israeli astronaut. It was rife with modded up anti-Semetism (not just anti-Israeli).
How far could this go? Could they charge my stationer for selling me a notebook and pen which I could conceivably use to copy out chunks of the latest Harry Potter novel?
Sufficient for intentional inducement? I don't know.
Or heck... the internet itself!
Which was, it might be worthwhile pointing out, used for trading illegal software and porn distribution long before software like Kazaa was running on the typical desktop PC.
As another poster has said... this is a lot like trying to reduce traffic fatalities by making it illegal to own a car.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
but you can stop him from getting votes.
All that needs to be done is for the voters in his state to be made aware of what he is doing. People don't have a clue where this copyright legislation is going. Someone needs to start a campaign in Utah saying something like "Sen Hatch doesn't trust you. He thinks you are a criminal at heart. If he had his way it would be illegal for you to video tape your childrens Christmas pageant at school and church." and then show what is between the lines of his bills.
'Same speed C but faster'
Providing this bill does fail to pass, the end result has a positive side to it. Americans seem not to pay attention to anything that doesn't borderline a conspiracy theory, and completely asinine legislation like this is the best chance to wake the citizenry to the abuse of our legislative system perpetrated by the entertainment industry over the last 8 years.
I know many of my friends and family did not really take an interest in these kinds of issues until several months (years now?) back when lobbyist for entertainment interests managed to introduce a law granting 'policing' powers to copyright holders.
Abstract concepts like the limitation of copyright lengths for the public good and 'access' prevention affects on fair use do not register with most people - that the government is outlawing VCR's will.
I too am somewhat surprised that the popular media is not more on this, though I guess I shouldn't be given that many media organizations are owned by the same interests trying to introduce these steaming piles of legislative rubbish.
Hatch is just pissed that no one is sharing his songs.
I've got an envelope, a stamp, and a couple sheets of paper here, ready to write my senator about this bill.
Is it too early to start writing letters?
What should I say?
Thanks.
-Bucky
... now. And if you have a problem wih any of their methods or policies, WRITE IT ON THE CHECK.
If they're trying to make any technology that can be used for copying illegal, then we lose VCRs, copiers, printers, scanners, sound cards with line-in, tape recorders, keyboards, glasses (they can help someone read a book that they might copy!), paper, and writing utensils. Welcome to the Stone Age!
There's nothing quite as disenfranchising to a voter as living in a state where the vast majority of the electorate consistently, almost numbly, votes the opposite of you...
'...aids, abets, induces, counsels, or procures...' using this definition, would not ALL providers be subject to this law?
Fuck you Hatch, fuck you all the way to hell. Human rights are not your property to sell to the highest corporate bidder.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Aren't senators supposed to look out for their own state's wellfare? Which of those companies are based in Utah? Any of them? Not to mention that this doesn't do much for the wellfare of the people, but even the COMPANIES aren't in Utah AFAIK.
he's really gone off the deep end the past few years, it's time for him to retire and surround himself with his little tin Nazi soldier toys. he is not of this nation any more with his actions.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Windoz supports file coping - so: outlaw Windoz! Yeah!
I'm also pretty sure that he's got himself covered in regards to any possible charges of being bribed by lobbyists, PAC's, etc. He's probably too smart for that.
However, I can't but help feel that he is a traitor. He is un-American, and I hope that he loses re-election. The 1st Amendment is 1st because of its importance to America, and the 1st Amendment is America.
You attack the 1st Amendment, you attack America.
So, Mr. Hatch: ES&D.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
First, can anyone help me understand the child exploitation piece of this? I clearly understand that it's a veiled (thinly) threat at music "pirates," but I don't see ANY possible explanation of the veil itself.
Second, no VCR makers or users will be under pressure from this bill! Nobody commits copyright infringement on those anymore. It's Apple you have to worry about. "rip mix burn" and a convenient device with which to do so constitute aid and inducement more than anything else I can think of.
Read jack phelps dot net
I see a lot of posts about police states and raids and such, but let's remember that this is a bill introduced by one guy who is obviously owned by the entertainment cabal. Stupid bills get introduced all the time. In this case, it's Orrin Hatch earning his pay from the RIAA/MPAA. If it passes, that's another story...but first let's remember that lots of people with lots of money who also own their own congresscritters will be horribly affected by such a law (think Microsoft and just about every tech company out there) and should easily have it laughed out of Congress.
If we're lucky, there might actually be some congress members beholden to say, oh, a silly thing like The People and see what's going on here. But that's if we're lucky.
-R
...Stop the world, I wanna get off.
RegardselFarto
How about we sue the people of Utah for continuing to elect this guy? Truly, he is the nut that should have been swallowed.....
One often overlooked fact is that it is the responsibility of the legislature to write the law, and it is the responsibility of the courts to interpret the law. There is an interesting history in why it is that the courts now have the power of "judicial review." I know that most of us disagree with Hatch's copyright policies, but please keep keep court decisions in their proper perspective that they are to interpret the law, now make the law.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Thanks!
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
I'm so sick of reading on /. about how our rights are being taken away and then no one else i know offline knows anything is happenning. FUCK!!!
/. lets people know about new laws that will impact technology.
To be honest, the people who don't know about most of these things don't really care either.
For example, groups disseminate information based upon the interests of their members. Every gun club will distribute information about newly proposed gun laws. "Women's organizations" will let its members know about new abortion regulations.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Well, if you thought the DeCSS lawsuits were frivolous, you're in for a new type. This would effectively ban the LAME-type projects that are source-only in order to avoid copyright infringement. Yep - you're 'inducing' violations by providing a means to distribute illegal copies of copyright materials. What about audio rippers? Well, if they can be inducing violations, they're infringing. Forget about fair use. All you need to ban some product is an example of its use for copyright infringement and a benevolent judge that would accept some broader definition for 'intentional'.
Also, this will be a generalized ban for any devices non-compliant with future equivalents of the broadcast flag in other fields. Maybe even selling the old non-compliant devices, as they're sure to be used for an infringing purpose.
I hope I'm wrong, but remember, if the wording of the law allows it, sooner or later someone WILL use it.
Unless I am mistaken, doesn't this make computers illegal, too? They can be used for file sharing etc.
What is he going to do, take away all the computers in the world? I doubt this bill is going to go very far...
This is a post to get past teh lamen3ss filter.
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm
Let your senators know.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
I guess I had a hand in putting him where he is today. I even wore a shirt with his name on it. This whole thing pisses me off, what's he want to do, start killing people who keep memories of copyrighted material? I don't think I need anymore convincing that republicans suck. Living in Utah blows.
All problem solved at once!
As the owner of a small software development company, does this mean I may not be able to purchase the equipment and software necessary to produce and duplicate the CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs we distribute to our customers?
I don't know what you're going to do, but I just took 10 minutes and wrote Sen. Allen asking him to keep this legislation on "a short leash".
Use the Senate web site to contact them electronically. Postal mail costs a stamp and can be delayed 6 weeks by decontamination procedures.
Just had to let you know your sig made my day :)
jee, an armed populace in iraq seem to be fucking with out military quite nicely.
.38 Saturday Night Special, illegally obtained and used in the comission in crime is 50 state legal, but a semi automatic SKS isnt.
i respect and wish only the best to our armed servicemen and veterans, but they are no replacement for police.
too bad the iraqis have more of the bill of rights that we do. anarchy is better than the opposite, the tyranny of your OWN STATE!
the point is, the iraqis are generally pissed and well armed enough where even the us military doesnt just waltz around with impunity. put that same force in the USA violating posse comitatus, and we would be MUCH MUCH softer targets than Iraqis.
Get ready for Abu Ghraib. Dont bitch to me when they do it to you, you nor I wont have any ways to stop them.
And , just for the record, what exactly is an assault weapon? Hrm? Pistol grip with a detachable box mag? 30 round clip? Id really, really like to heard your Michael Moorian diatribe on "assault" weapons.
You got your Full Auto band in 1934. More crimes have been committed with illegal revolvers than any "assault" weapon, even Diane Swinestein said that. But the
How many crimes have been committed with an SKS or SA-bushmaster or the like? You wouldnt know or care.
I love the idea of a sponsored congressman. They should go to work each day dressed like those NASCAR drivers. Logos all over the place, head to toe. He pauses in the middle of his speach to take a refreshing drink of Coca-Cola. Ahhhhh.
Hell lets stop pretending anymore. Lets create corporate representatives and get our elected ones back. All these probablems coming from the fact that corporations are seen as people in the eyes of the law. Make the House, the Senate and the Market. People elect the first two, corporations vote for the third and can't contribute to the others.
Dateline: Washington DC
The Insane Times-Record reported today that legislation outlawing the hammer, screwdriver, shovel, and frying pan has been introduced in the US Congress.
The Home Abuse Tool Enforcement Act (HATE), citing reports of hammers, screwdrivers, shovels, and frying pans being used to perpetrate violent incidents in the home, requires all owners of such tools to turn them in to local law enforcement officials.
The HATE Act seeks to prevent further mis-use of such heinous tools in the home. While recognizing the important contributions these tools have made to home-ownership, and civilization in general, the risks of such tool technology being used for ill have finally become significant enough that no one can be trusted to utilize the tools for their intended purposes.
Repairmen, workshops, and machine shops will be required to register each tool with the US Dept. of Commerce's new "Heinous Tool Registry", which will ensure that these important implements are still valuable tools for good, as long as they are kept in the right hands.
No word yet on the frying pan.
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law;
To be honest, the people who don't know about most of these things don't really care either.
You know, it's true and it's scary. I remember thinking when I was in highschool about all these wacko's preaching about how your liberties are being taken away. But if they were being taken away, why wasn't I hearing about it? Now it comes to the time when I can look on the internet and SEE what is happening. Now I am the one who knows our freedoms are being taken away.
And no one cares.
The media has let us down. The newspapers don't report anything, the TV and radio networks are silent on these issues. They've become corperate whores for ratings, and forgoten the fundamental base that they need to inform the public. But it's not all their fault either. People don't want to hear about things. They don't care if freedom is flushed down the toilet as long as they can see a movie and drive their SUV. The people have lost touch with the roots of their country. A nation where people fought and died for freedom, only to have later generations become lazy and complacent while taking freedom for granted and watching it slip away.
It seems that Sen. Hatch is behind many of these attempts to impose draconian copyright laws. Can we not collectively help defeat his next re-election bid? It would send a powerful message.
Republicans are not Socialists. There's a bunch of right-wing Fascists, minus the public hangings.
Repeat after me:
Fascism, like Marxism, Bolshevism, Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, Potism, and every other -ism, is a flavor of socialism.Except if you step on to federal property, live in DC, New York city, Chicago, or in a subdivision with a self-appointed "homeowner's association" that forbids the owning, much less the carrying, of firearms. Many jurisdictions consider the visible display of a firearm "brandishing", and will arrest you. Thanks to Operation Exile, that's 5 years in the state pen. (Don't get me wrong - I agree 100% with Op. Exile when used against 'real' felons, not firearm-carrying citizens).
Oh yeah, add Australia, the UK, and several other countries that have banned and then confiscated firearms. I'm not afraid of the military, I'm afraid of the nutjobs in the legislative and executive branches that would turn the military against the citizenry.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
What the hell do you see in Republicans these days? They've become a bunch of right-wing socialists at this point.
Believe me, the grass roots ain't happy. If it weren't for 9-11, and Dubyah's very minimal response to the threat of Islam [aka Islamofascism, but that's redundant], there would be a heckuva revolt going on in the ranks.
Wrong. Try getting a concealed carry in California. You can get them in Napa, Diane Swinestein has a concealed carry for a colt python, but you can't get one. In fact, part time cops even have trouble with concealed in California. You cannot carry a loaded gun in quite a number of states, concealed or not. Rifles and shotguns are more or less banned in metro areas, so don't even pretend you can ride around in a pickup truck brandishing a 50 state legal Mossberg pump action shotgun and not be thrown in jail.
You don't understand. Your federal rights, your inalienable rights, have been removed. You allowed it to happen. And now you spout lies. You say the same lie enough and people believe it. There literally a TON of paper proving we, the people, have a right to either individually or through the formation of non-government militias to attempt to be at parity with the powers of county, state and federal armies and law enforcement.
Given the size and power of our military and law enforcement, why the fear of the armed citizen? Well, if you plan to execute people in ditches, you don't want them armed. Nor when you gas them, cremate them alive.
The plague of leftistism gave rise to the NSDAP in the 1930s.
From Mao to Hitler, from Stalin to Idi Amin, Disarming citizens if require to perpetrate tyranny and evil.
yet another repost, but somehow I keep thinking that it needs to be resaid ..... BPAC
That depends on which part of America you happen to be in. It is not legal to carry guns in every part of the country, or even buy them in some parts. Bullets can't stop missiles, that's correct. You're dead wrong that civilians with small arms can't stop a large military though. Did you happen to see how well the people in Afganistan did against the Soviets for so many years? Why because the people didn't want them (the Soviets) there. How can a post that's blatently incorrect be "Insightful"?
Photocopiers, photographics cameras, camcorders, cd burners, computers, printers (not only the one attached to your pc, I am also talking about the traditional tree killers ones), telephones, cellphones, TV, radio.
All of these technologies (which today all use digital mediums) can be used to break the copyright law. So under the new law will be illegal.
USA can say hello to the dark ages.
Mexican and Canadian soldiers will be arriving one year after this law comes in effect. Welcome your new copyright "thieves" overlords!!
Be careful. Pretty soon someone is going to offer you a tinfoil hat.
But if it makes you feel any better, you're right.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
This is too public to be the real bill. This bill is probably meant to fail so that another bill, that would look almost as bad as this one, will look good by comparison.
"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."
As the devil's advocate, I must remind you that Those Who Favor This Sort Of Thing, contend that copying data is stealing. The argument they make is that the party who created the data has a claim to all potential revenue from all the copies of the data. Any copying which does not include revenue for the creator is stealing from that creator because the copier is getting something for nothing.
Of course we all know what the fallacy is here. It's the idea that the creator can tell when someone has 'stolen' from them. With normal property the creator no longer has the thing which was stollen from them. With data this is not the case.
The reason I bring this up is that some of us will get into arguments with people who don't understand this distinction. If we merely tell them that noone is hurt buy copying, they will think we are stupid or ignorant because CLEARLY the author is being cheated out of earned revenue. Rather than basing our arguments on these contentious notions, we must start from positions we can agree with them on.
Unfortunately, I don' know of a way to state our position in a way they can understand. "They can't tell it's been copied" won't work because the people we are arguing with will say, "sure they can - they didn't get money for the copy." This sounds ludicrous to us because we know you can't test for things not happening if you don't have a reason to expect them to happen, but they don't think that way.
In any case, it's important that we not descend into a "does not / does too" argument with these people.
So is this comparison valid?
I make a software program that copies files. Since it can potentially copy a copyrighted file I am in violation.
But I make a gun. This gun is used to KILL someone.
You can't hold the gunmake responsible but you can hold the software developer?
What am I missing here?
Unless we're including Stinger missiles and RPGs in our definition of "small arms", the Afghans were certainly not limited to small arms when fighting off the Soviet invasion.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
...its stuff like this that makes me believe more and more that the next revolution(or civil war, coupe, or whaterver term you prefer) is going to be fought over the govenment so restricting the rights of citizens with legistation like this that people are going to have to march on the congress to regain our freedoms and stop living under the oppressive thumbs of the corporations which have seized control of our government. I'm not advocating such an uprising (no wars for me thanks) however this is jeust getting insane. I've said it before the first rule of law making should be for the legistators to ask "is this law good for the average citizen, will it be of benefit to them" if the answer is no the law should never be written or passed.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
They're not quite that dumb. They'd leave the existing technologies alone and instead just use the bill to kill off any new innovation.
Consumers won't complain about missing products they've never seen or heard of.
What about the Democrats?!?!? stoopid cnet
Posted by: Limewire Anime
Posted on: June 18, 2004, 12:51 AM PDT
Story: Antipiracy bill targets technology
They are completely ignoring the fact that Fritz Hollings (D) was the major architect of this type of **** for years, and that Maria Cantwell (D) is a fraud bought and paid for by M$ and RealNetworks. Oh and what about all of those Hollywood rejects in the house? Sonny Bono (D) ring a bell anyone? HELLO! Jesus...
I've been pretty sick of "The Senator from Disney" before, but now he makes me freaking barf!
Yea, like people downloading songs on the Internet are not only causing the Downfall of Western Civilization, now they are molesting children too!
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Tell me where I can get my Legal AK-47, SKS or AK-74 and I'll shut the fuck up. I wouldnt mind one bit to be able to get my hands on what the Afghanis or the Iraqis can tote.
The fact is, more of the Bill of Rights is intact in areas of the world that are total anarchy than here on US Soil. We have these Bill of Rights, but then find ways to narrow the scope.
Dont forget the RedEyes we gave them before the Stingers.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...from my cold, dead....oh wait
...unsels, or procures, and intent may be shown by acts from which a reasonable person would find intent to induce infringement based
upon all relevant information about such acts then...
Senator Orin Hatch... Reasonable Person...
Shouldn't that be say stodgy old ignorant technophobes?
we shouldn't have let them change their minds.
"oops, too late, you already said you wanted to go."
Ben
Work Safe Porn
This may sound like trolling, but it's not my intent.
In democratic countries, citizens deserve what they get in the government. They choose their representatives and they have the right to elect another at the end of the term. The fact that this guy (and George Bush, Kennedy, Jeb Bush et al.) is in the office is the failure of the citizen to elect a better representative. Having small number of oppositions is not an excuse as you can help campaigning or spreading the message.
I remember Arizona re-elected that crook Governor Five only to remove him later in mid-term. It wouldn't happen if the voters do their job, would it?
After all, what's been happening since the early 20th century is that the copyright term keeps getting extended, as soon as the previous extension gets close to expiring. Who's to say copyright terms haven't _already_ become infinite?
You think CNN cares? They're owned by Time-Warner, one of Hatch's bigger contributors.
This is the problem, and the agenda behind Republican media deregulation. If your content producers and your media are the same thing, and have a government-granted monopoly, you control the culture. Instant police state.
This bill is one small step in Hatch's plan to destroy the Internet.
Using a recursive acronym for a bill that will make copyright holders even MORE powerful?
I'll bet Darl McBride is behind this somehow.
The U.S. Constitution allows the People to propose Amendments, and to pass them without involving any Congressional betrayers, via "Constitutional Convention" and other referendums.
Proposed Copyright Amendment:
(define Creator of the Work)
(define Customer)
(define Middleman)
1. The Creator of the Work can do anything that person desires, with or to that Work, including giving it away, selling copies, renting it, selling it partially, or selling it wholly.
2. With respect to a given-away Work, the recipient can do anything with or to that Work.
3. With respect to a wholly-sold Work, the Customer can do anything with or to that Work.
4. With respect to a sold copy of the Work, the Customer can do anything with or to that copy, except make-AND-distribute-and/or-sell more copies.
(Is clarification necessary here? Existing "Fair Use" means a Customer can make copies for self only, generally to prevent loss of the essence of what was bought. And "distribute" means ANY method by which somebody else gets one of those copies.)
5. In all other cases, the Creator of the Work retains at full-to-partial legal control over any/all copies of that Work, for (put duration here). Generally, Middleman might be contracted to trade some copying/distribution/sales rights for royalties.
6. Customers who violate copyright can be fined and/or jailed (put terms here).
7. Middlemen who violate contract will be executed. Slow torture may precede execution if the contract was misrepresented to the Creator of the Work.
If this is what it takes to fix the system, then let's do it.
Actually, Sonny Bono was Republican.
Sonny Bono Obit
How do I (electronically) voice my opposition and advice my regional representative asking her/him to oppose this bill ?
I say we dowse this need for a paperless society and go back strictly to paper paper everywhere!
Let's be realistic, this is over the top nonsense. Obviously anyone that supports this idea of thinking needs the live in a state of Orwellian martial law and complete governmental control of the media and why stop there, include thought. A nation of drones all serving the mighty Utah based society with our leader Orrin Hatch.
Fight the power people! Our Constitutional rights are taken away more and more in the name of safety and corporate greed.
Peace
of everything this stupid act would have banned. So far I came up with:
cable tv (When cable TV was first started, the companies did not have the right to rebroadcast the networks' shows. Thus, what they were doing was technically illegal. However, Congress wisely said it was OK)
radio (This history of radio is similar to the history of cable TV above)
cassette tapes (i.e., any audio device which could possibly record sound),
CD/DVD-burners
copy machines
VCRs
video cameras
Film/digital cameras
The printing press
paper/pencils/pens
mirrors?!
Computers
Any network, including the internet
MP3 players, heck, any type of hard drive storage device
Scanners
printers
My fingers are tired...
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
http://www.senate.gov and find your Senator. Write to them and tell them not to support this bill. It's what we can do to help this bill die.
I'm just waiting for Ashcroft, close to the election, to declare the Democratic party a terrorist organization (since it opposes the Bushy boyz) and have all their candidates arrested and shipped to Guantanamo.
This is the Constitution.This is the Constitution under the Bush administration. Any questions?
While Democrats tend to favor more government involvement and regulation, the general Republican philosophy favors less government and deregulation. What you are dealing with here is the same human corruption seen in both parties. The politician is selling out to lobbyists for personal gain in contradiction to his party's stated goals.
A good question for liberals: What do you see in Democrats these days? How are they better or even different from Republicans? They say one thing (i.e. what you want to hear), but they typically do something completely different (i.e. something that personally benefits him) after the election. You are deluding yourselves, if you believe otherwise. I can't even figure out what Kerry's positions are. He waffles more than Clinton did.
The entertainment industry is also pursuing this through another vector: through WIPO. If the U.S. signs the new WIPO treaty, then Betamax will be overturned even without Hatch's bill. See my Nov. 8, 2003 blog entry U.S. corroborating with WIPO to overturn Betamax decision and also eliminate public domain.
The story isn't about how Republicans are evil, it's about how this bill is stupid.
If you see people using it as an excuse to post 'insightful' ad hominem arguments agains Hatch, get to metamod and quit your bitching.
The argument of "this product could be used for illegal purposes, so we have to ban it" is exactly the argument used by gun control advocates. Conservatives who oppose gun control should also strongly oppose this bill. Sadly, it appears that the principles of the typical Congresscritter can be bought for a few million.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
If your congressman wore a suit covered in logos like a NASCAR driver, constituents would know about their motives. Well said!
Don't pick up the pho*(@)$*@&@!@ NO CARRIER
Since the quality of the copy is irrelevant, that would mean that all of these are infringers:
Photocopiers (books, etc.),
Cameras (everything you see),
Computers (floppies, CDs, DVDs, CPU copy instructions, etc.),
Pencils and Pens (you can copy copyrighted text long hand you know)
The Human Brain (you didn't retain a copy of Harry Potter in memory did you?)
No matter what you detractors may say, anybody who has heard him speak knows Sen. Hatch is a total master of duckspeak. If you want to hear how ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery, or black is white, he's your man.
I share your frustration about this and a great many other issues. There is some hope, though. Even a loosely organized letter-writing campaign can make a dent. Instead of posting on the next blog you see about this issue, take the same amount of time to shoot of a letter to the editor of your local paper. EVERYBODY do that. That means you, person who is reading this post. Do it within a week. Just state the basic facts and point out how this will kill innovation and hurt the US economy far more than help it. Will it make the issue lead the nightly news? No. But it gets enough awareness out there that Hatch is a crackpot devoted to the whims of his wealthy contributors.
Shall we see what the combined ire of Slashdotters does to the server that hosts Senator Hatch's website?
perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but I've about had it up to here with copyright.
Let my put it this way, in the good old days of the middle ages if you wanted a book, say the bible, you would aquire a transcription: not a copy. Some monk or whatnot would actually create the article by hand, painstakingly.
Therefore the idea of illegal copies was nonexistent - because it would take forever to make such a copy. you were essentially paying for the transcription service, not really the intellectual property contained within the work - if you were paying at all, that is.
then came the gutenberg press, a great creation, and fun to say too. Copies could be made in a much more effecient manner, but the consumer was still paying for the service more than the copies; after all the bible was the first thing printed - and unless you consider tithe a type of royalty - no money was payed for the creators. I think tithe is more like a membership charge.
Still, the concept of the consumer making thier own copies was unheard of - unless that consumer had a press and the expertise to use it.
Up until the 60's consumers didn't really have any good methods for making cheap copies of any intellectual works; books, music, movies. But then the xerox, and then the magnetic cassete tape.
Basically i'm saying that the current methods of copy protection are a backwards technology. you see, because the freaking consumer now has the ability to create documents that have all the quality expected. The gutenberg press is in every household in the form of HP and Memorex.
Copy protection, IMO is tantamount to sabatoge. It impedes the capability of the consumer to utilize thier equipment to it's full extent - in effect decreasing the functionality.
Money is a great example of this; it is vital that cash be as difficult as possible to copy. But, it is a chasing of the tail. you see, the money of the 20's can probably be duplicated fairly accurately via consumer-level hardware. Money is a type of proof saying "hey, this paper says what i'm worth, you must trust me because george washington says so"; but the physical document (dollar bill) can be duplicated - Gold, not so easy; goods and services likewise. In other words, the value contained within the bill is an illusion. (all value arguably is, but the value of a doctor in times of emergency is not so etheral - service and goods my friends; the only real values).
Eventually, if the hardware manufactures are smart enough, and industrious enough, consumer-level will match corporate-level in every aspect.
Already, consumer-level music is oft-times better than corporate-level; likewise with movies; and likewise with software (read: consumers created linux).
Copy protection should be illegal.
wouldn't this bill effectively make TCP/IP illegal since it can be used by programs like Morpheus and Kazaa or any webserver or FTP client to transfer files??? arguably, it can be used to abet the transfer of copyrighted material, and by this bill would therefore be illegal.
Just tell them that if they vote for this you will not vote for them.
I did forget that one. And Hatch does do that.
make a commercial where you say that Orin hatch wants to make your computer, VCR, video cameras illegal, show his campaign contributions. you will be guarantied to get elected.
Hollywood stuffs huge quantities of $$$ into the pockets of Democrats, who then pass laws like the DMCA
All theory is gray
All anyone has to do is create any content that is copyrighted and then start filing lawsuits against email clients, usenet and web client makers because those products induce copyright infringement. Bill Gates should be very afraid of this bill.
The last time I was in the US I listened to a talk by the NRA explaining that they defended the right to carry guns because it prevented the government from taking away their rights. Good to see that's working so well...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
When are we going to start running around in perfect lines doing a high kick march, and yelling zeik hail! This is the RIAA and whatever one it is for the movie industries saying, "we just like to take our customers, bend them over, and rape them with burning embers wrapped in sand paper." This is going too far, If it weren't for technology, the movie industry wouldnt be where it is today! Nor would the music industry, and software... what software. When are these people going to realise that we copy movies that arent worth the hard drive space, and are not worth purchasing, I believe the number is like 1 in 5 movies, ever breaks even. My solution, Stop Making CRAPY MOVIES!!! Like Dodgeball... I would prefer to pull my teeth out with a rusty pair of pliers, than pay to see it. and music... HA HA HA this is a laugh!!! If I liked paying 15-20 for 1 good song, then I wouldn't copy music. Again it is all about percieved quality VS percieved value, 15 dollars for one song that I precieve as quality, doesn't have any value, 15-20 quality songs for the same price, that I could, and probably would, percieve as a value.
42 69 6C 6C 20 47 61 74 65 73 20 69 73 20 61 20 77 68 6F 72 65 21
It is worth noting that Senator Hatch has a long history of supporting legislation that tramples upon constitutional rights and civil liberties, this man is definitley an enemy of your rights and the constitution, anyone in Utah really needs to remember to vote and get this bastard out of Office. He has waged war on the Bill of Rights long enough. M
During my parents & grandparents generations, our "elected" officials were referred to as representatives.
Somehow during my generation, these "elected" officials became leaders.
When did this happen? Why did this happen?
I DO NOT to be led, however I DO want to be represnted in my national government.
"...the shortest distance between two points may be straight line, but it is by no means the most interesting."
To be fair, SBC does not want P2P networks attacked. They know pretty well that the reason most people get DSL is to download music and movies. And that P2P makes this easy.
The non-entertainment-vested telcos and bandwidth providers would just as soon have this debate go away in favor of unfettered file swapping. They're not saying it publicly, but they're thinking it.
dinner: it's what's for beer
Yeah, Kerry doesn't really stand for anything much, and he voted for the Iraq war and all. I'm hoping he'll raise taxes though, since part of fiscal conservatism is that you shouldn't spend more than you have.
Other than that, waffling can be better than being sure of yourself. The world is not an easy place and the problems the President has to face cannot be solved by coming up with a solution in two days and then sticking to it no matter what happens.
So I'll vote for a waffler any day over a radical "I'm right because God said so and I can never be wrong" government-debt-happy Republican.
The shift key on Windows machines...
or for that matter, any computer anywhere that has an input and an output device.
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
The media has whored for ratings for decades, it's just that most of us were not watching the nightly news or reading the paper in a daily basis in the 70s.
Most people don't care until it directly impacts them today. The media knows this, and they only report on what is impacting people that day. Agreed, it erodes journalistic integrity and it is not a good thing, but there is a reason.
The average person concentrates more on what affects them today than what will affect them next year. Weather, traffic, daily stocks, crime. These warrant attention, but we need to look ahead as well. That way, a year from now you can continue to concern yourself with humdrum daily problems, like the daily commute and if you should wear a coat today. Instead of worrying about how you're going to eat or pay the rent, or if you can speak your mind anymore.
It's not new. Even the most recent example of massive protests in the US, those against Vietnam, didn't get big until the draft was enacted. When was the last time you saw something like that for something that wasn't happening yet? What if those same people had protested the (then coming) war just as loudly in 1961?
There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
It makes it clear that the purpose is to promote the advance of useful arts and science and give creators a limited time monopoly over their work. These laws seek to corrupt that, and hence are unconstitutional.
When Otto von Bismarck invented the concept of public pensions in the late 1800s, the retirement age of 65 was chosen -- and life expectancy was 45.
When Social Security went into effect in the 30s, with a retirement age of 65 based on the German system, life expectancy was 63.
Come to Carousel! Come for renewal! There is no Sanctuary, and runners deserve their fate at the hands of the sandmen.
And the US is worried about extraditing draft dodgers. They should really worry about sending all their thinking people out of the country.
A resource to avoid this stupidity (at least for a little while):Available Here/a
I was wondering, if the maker of any device that could be used to infringe copyright is liable for any infringing action that the device is used, could PC and PC software makers be held liable. A keyboard can be used to infringe copyright, so any company that makes keyboards and any company that makes software to use keyboards would automatically become copy right infringers. Microsoft and Dell would become copyright infringers by default. Would the act of typing the names of these companies count as infringement? If the Induce Act is passed, could it be possible to use the act itself to outlaw technology, after all any piece of technology can be used to infringe copyright in some form or another. Would it be possible to go after Microsoft if the file sharing software is running on there operating system? If there is no exception then everyone everywhere could be held liable for copyright infringement.
This brings up an interesting point. People hate Communism. Do you know why? Because Communism involves the State stepping in and telling you where you can live, how much money you can make, how much of X product you can purchase, what ideas you are allowed to express, what church you can go to, and so forth. The State takes away your rights.
Now we are faced with more and more right-wingers who want to regulate our lives to death to satisfy a few greedy entertainment executives. Load a "bad" program? Go to jail. Buy a VCR? Go to jail. Devise an algorithm to uncripple your own media? Go to jail. This is the world that faces us, if this agenda is successful.
Bill of Rights? We're talking about legislation specifically designed to take our rights away.
Now, back under your bridge, Troll.
dinner: it's what's for beer
I repair computers. What if I repair a computer and notice a filesharing app on the machine? If I return the machine functional, I am interntionally "aiding" in the infringment. How about telling someone how to configure their firewall so that Kazaa works correctly? Sounds like "counsels" to me. What if I install a cd-burner and the customer copies a bunch of copyrighted cds? Heck, the network card I install to download patches can be used to "abet" downloads of "infringing materials".
I am going up to the hills to my bunker stocked with non DRM hard drives and blank CDRs to hide now. Send me an IM when civilization finishes collapsing.
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
That sounds like a good argument at banning IRC to me :P
Hey, I've got mine.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Senator Hatch is a friend of child pornography.
Seriously.
The man clearly doesn't understand that p2p networks won't disappear because of his little bill, they'll just become stealthier and the material on them harder to trace to a source. At least on today's commonly used networks child porn can be traced to an ip address, and the people providing it face the chance of prosecution.
If the networks are forced to become more secure, it won't be as easy in the future and I'm sure we'll end up with a blossoming of child porn because of it.
part of the problem is that most of the public wont fully understand it if they did read it. " this doesnt apply to me".
Also remember that most of the mainstream press is part of the problem, they are FOR bills that reduce your freedoms in this way.. they produce content too..
They also want to be the only ones on the block with freedom of speech ( just look at 'campaign finance reform' if you dont know what I'm talking about )
They all suck and "we the people" are getting screwed.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This makes all forms of communication illegal.
Asshats...
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
...I'll be turning myself in. I own two VCR's and three CD burners. I hope that all other concerned citizens will do the same. We need to do our time for our crimes and the justice system must process us through in due diligence. Now if only every other good citizen reported to the police and insisted on being arrested.... Hmmm....
If every piece of technology that can be used to violate copyrights is banned, how is the RIAA/MPAA going to make their CDs/DVDs?
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
What the First Ammendment actually says:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Perhaps they just need it explicitly pointed out that a "lobby" is just a peacable assembly of people who have appointed an individual or group of individuals to petition the government on their behalf?
Or perhaps pointing out that freedom of speech works for everyone or it works for no one is now flamebait?
KFG
Wouldn't a computer by its very definition go against this new act? More specifically, how about a web browser? I know IE (dont know about Oprah or Mozilla) for sure cashes images and text (html) which would make MS liable for god knows how much 'copyright' theft. Would the law really be this broad or am I missing something?
"I'm hoping he'll raise taxes though, since part of fiscal conservatism is that you shouldn't spend more than you have."
Um, the fiscally conservative response would be to cut government spending, not raise taxes.
"If you make a product that has dual uses, infringing and not infringing, and you know there's infringement, you're liable." Wouldn't this automatically make all copy machines illegal? IANAL, but they seem to fall precisely into the same category as the VCR. I don't see anything that restricts this bill to digital media. I'm sure there are more ripple effects as well, but that one certainly jumped out at me. KeS
What is your household annual income? Kerry has continually referred to keeping the middle class tax cuts. Unless you're in the top few percent, you won't face a tax hike. Democratic tax policy in general is a high top tax bracket and low lower and middle class brackets. Republican tax policy is to flatten the brackets - and for the taxes to bring in the same income, that means either increases in taxes for the lower and middle classes, or cutting federal spending (something Republicans haven't done since early this century - check it out).
;)
On the other hand, what you *have* faced since the tax cuts is a *HUGE* increase in the federal deficit, because spending hasn't been decreased correspondingly - it's gone up. There are really three ways to cut federal spending significantly (everything else is pretty trivial): The military, social security, and medicare/medicaid. Concerning cutting those, two words: Good Luck.
The other major thing that has been faced is large cuts to state aid - states which have been having major problems of their own. Consequently, college tuitions have been skyrocketing, local taxes on average have increased a lot - more than the average american got back from the Bush budget, despite the huge defecit increases, etc.
Is spending into deficit the sort of policy that you like? Is that *responsible*? If it is not fiscally responsible, which is the party of fiscal responsibility?
You know when it's okay to shout fire in a crowded theatre? When it's on fire.
I disagree.
Someone has 'em.... but "WE" don't.
That is the whole point!
Gotta install a better parser in my brain.
Once we get rid of those pesky P2P networks and VCR's, we'll move on to the following Evil Mediums:
1. The Internet itself, as well as Routers/Hubs, DSL, Cable, ISDN, standard 300-56k modems, and NICs. By allowing connectivity to a network and thus the transmission of data, these devices induce users into copying said data from the internet to more permanent media, (such as CD's and DVD's that will be outlawed along with the aforementioned items) or passing it along to others connected to the network. News stories for example, will be limited to newspaper print from now on.
2. Copiers and Blank Paper. These evil inventions can be used to copy print media in the same way that computers and burners can be used to copy digital media. We will also be mandating covers and book-locks on all future printed materials. Bypassing these locks to read the actual text will be considered in violation of copy protection schemes, and punishable by hard time in the federal slammer.
3. Automobiles. While providing a medium from one location to the next, these vehicles clearly induce otherwise innocent citizens into speeding, in addition to providing 'get-away' transportation to thieves and murderers. The Highway Dept will be held accountable for laying down the roads, providing the medium that encourage the use of automobiles and their inherent illegal uses.
4. Food and Drink. While necessary to sustain life, these items can be used as a medium of transport (directly to the stomach) of deadly poisons or fat-creating calories (in the case of McDonalds, both at once) of unsuspecting consumers. Killing or fattening up of the American people will not be tolerated, thus we will be outlawing these substances and people will now receive government approved IV bags of nutrient liquids. however we cannot provide the needles to convey it into the blood stream as they could be used for injecting other illegal substances.
After all, congress effectively won't be able to pass any more laws if the police come in and confiscate all their photocopy machines. Maybe, all in all, this won't be so bad...
... the worlds militaries. Instead of national flags on their uniforms, they can have halliburton corporate logos, and dyncorp and norinco and bofors and whatnot...
oh, wait, we are already 1/2 way there if what I am reading in the news is correct. Seems like "contractors" are a big chunk of all the folks at odds with each other over to whoknowswhere-istan.
"And in todays news, coalition hughes/GE forces suffered a setback in the campaign to roust insurgents in boogooriyah as exxon/general dyanmics launched a counteroffensive using banned weapons of medium destruction and..."
It's more like parent exploitation. The extremely wealthy media conglomerates are exploiting parents (through fear) in an attempt to preserve the status quo and, they believe, by extension preserve their current revenue streams.
What they don't realize is that civil liberties, innovation, and fair use are themselves part of the status quo in the United States. They also don't realize that by stifling innovation, they are stifling their own future revenue stream.
Being in Utah, I wrote and complained about this. With elections coming up next month hopefully enough media back-lash can be generated to can this effort, and if not that the candidate.
Any spoon would be too big.
Surely you know that every time you "induce" someone into copying a CD or movie, God kills an innocent child. Sorta like masturbating and kittens.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
Good start, let's continue... Guns? Cars? Medicine? Education? Hatch can't be serious but there are lots of right wingers out there in morally superior land just thinking he's a great guy when he's obviously just pandering to them. He may be miffed because the memos about the justification of torture by our administration leaked out. This free flow of information can really ruin a good secret torture program.
Well then, next we should be banning:
1. Cameras - they can be used to take pictures of infringing or unlawful material.
2. Tape Recorders - they can be used to produce an audio copy of infringing or unlawful material.
3. Cell Phones - they can transmit infringing or unlawful material.
4. Magazines - in case anybody prints infringing or unlawful material.
5. Books - see point 4.
6. The internet as a whole - transmission of infringing or unlawful material.
...
I know I'm exagerating a bit, but it seems to me this law is like trying to kill a fly with a nuclear bomb - you'll get the desired effect, but totaly blow away things you did not intend to do. I feel innovation will be stifled because companies will be afraid of "possible infringement" and don't want to be liable.
I only hope that Congress wakes up and sees the impact of this law ... but I'm not holding my breath.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
How about new JOB?
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
Read the first paragraph in the article review. It's not to be introduced until next week.
I'm not an attorney, but I've beaten two of them in court representing myself, one of them being a local DA.
It's because I can read mostly...and am poor and can't afford to pay attention,let alone any member of the bar with those kinda fees, and I really dislike getting screwed over for no good reason, just the attempt makes me quite annoyed, and I am relentless once I decide to do something. Re-lent-less. And I don't scare or intimidate easy. I've helped out some other folks, too, similar situations. Seemed to win there, too.....
%^)
kinda like "open source" law, dissatisfied with what's out there, too expensive, too buggy, too arcane and closed and propietary? Do it your self!
I know the law cabal hates it, but it's still "legal" and I wish more people took advantage of the fact and learned the code and procedure and helped take back the courts from the monopoly intertests that run them now.
I've never understood this perspective. Cigarrettes will never be illegal, because so many damn people smoke them! It's not because the govt. gets so much money. It's because everyday citizens wake up, and have a smoke. It's because people get stressed out, and have a smoke. It's because people have sex, and then have a smoke!
Sure, "secondhand smoke kills", but so do alcoholic drivers! And it's not like you see millions of people go out every weekend to enjoy the "NotFunAtAll" syrum of choice...
Like any "substance", used correctly, it doesn't do shit. Smoke outside, and away from your family/friends, and they won't get hurt. Drink a lot of booze, but don't drive, and you don't crash into anyone. Use cocaine like a motherfucker, but do it in your private home and to your own body, while making sure to pay the bills and spend quality time with your children?
People need to take responsibility for their own actions. We need to stop trying to circumvent their abilities and use the law to do it. We need to realize that the law is meant to represent the compromises we members of society feel are necessary! All of this garbage about how the govt. likes smokers because of tax purposes, is ludicrous.
They like smokers, because, like us all, they *are* smokers.
- DaftShadow
So anyone that makes a device that can be used for copyright infingment is also culpable?
Can't a pen be used to copy a book? Look out bic.
What a funny piece of legislation. Is this for real?
-- Pens don't copy books, people do ---
I wanted to express my dismay at the continuing assault on the public's rights with regards to Sen. Orrin Hatch's forthcoming introduction of legislation that amends Title 17 and the copyright laws. The "Inducement Devolves into Unlawful Child Exploitation Act" that Senator Hatch is preparing to introduce contains an amendment to Title 17 in Section 2 of the Act which has nothing to do with the unlawful exploitation of children. Specifically, the amendement appears to make it a crime for anyone to develop, discuss, buy, sell or recommend tools or information that will allow for the "fair use" rights of average citizens to be realized if these tools might also be used for copyright infringement.
Are we going to outlaw the VCR Senator? Are we going to go to jail for using copy machines? Are we going to discourage research into cryptography by academia and computer security professionals such as myself? Are our legislators going to continue catering to the special interests that are lining their war chests with contributions or are they going to stand up for the public's right to use content they purchase as they wish?
The worst part of this is that Senator Hatch is hiding this amendment inside of a bill supposedly designed to punish unlawful child exploitation. Now what person in there right mind would come out in opposition to laws against unlawful exploitation of children? It is a totally underhanded ploy by Senator Hatch to pass legislation aimed at helping some of his largest contributors, while sneaking it into a bill that would make a colleague think twice about voting no on the other provisions hidden inside.
I urge you to work hard to strip the copyright law changes from this bill when it is introduced into the Senate and, if not abandon them completely, at least address them separately. These deserve to be argued on their own and not as part of some other bill or compromise.
Finally, the Supreme Court ruled against Hollywood in the 1984 Betamax case when they determined that any device capable of a substantial non-infringing use was legal. The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 shored up the rights of the average citizen and made home taping legal given the properly used equipment and blank media. Let's build on these rulings and continue to represent your constituents rights, not trample them into the ground. If the old business models of the media conglomerates cannot adapt to the technology of today or the future, then they need to come up with a new business-model or go broke. Our legislature should not be in the business of restricting the public's rights so that outdated companies that do not innovate and move with the times continue to survive.
act ridiculously while insisting on a mile, be smug when they give you that inch you wanted in the first place.
In the MGM v. Grokster case (the court case that ruled P2P networks themselves are legal), the judge did state in his decision that the P2Ps intentionally found a loophole in copyright law and exploited it. In the same breath, he implied that congress should enact a law to close this loophole. I've read that case from beginning to end several times, and in light of it, this new law makes a lot of sense.
"Um, the fiscally conservative response would be to cut government spending, not raise taxes."
Amen, brother.
John Kerry will not raise income taxes on people who make less than $200,000.
And what about welfare for corporations?
Kerry wants to increase the minimum wage to $7 an hour.
Its like a glazed donut, washed down with beer.
I like washing my glazed donuts down with beer, you insensitive clod!
You are misinterpreting that part of the Constitution, which is referring to the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.
Two points:
1) The relevant excerpts are:
So with [50% + Episilon] of the House, [50% + Epsilon] of the Senate, and the signature of the Executive, the lower courts cease to exist, and the only constitutionally mandated court [i.e. the Supremem Court itself] is forbidden to hear cases involving copyright [unless said case involves an Ambassador, another "public Minister" or "Consul," or a State as a party].2) Point two is far more important however: This whole Marbury -v- Madison nonsense is the source of most of the tyranny that afflicts us in our era: There is not so much as a word within a clause within a phrase in The Constitution which even hints at the possibility that the Supreme Court might possess the right to "interpret" the constitution, much less declare a law to be "unconstitutional."
If you wanna be a serf to nine lords in robes, be my guest, but I think I'll decline the invite, thank you very much.
I agree with most of the things you say, but you miss a point. It's not a liberals or conservatives. In this day and age, that means very little. How many hippies are trying to be progressive? Not many if you consider they are trying to keep things the same (stopping the cutting down of a forest for example). The conservatives are the ones taking away our rights, just look at Hatch. What a fucker.
With that said, it's not liberals or conservatives but anti-gun nuts.
I am a leftist in many peoples eyes, but I am a big supporter of gun rights.
Left != anti-gun
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
mod parent up, the media will never tell us that the media is taking away our rights.
Speaking of the perversion of English, I think the acronym you were aiming for is PROPAGANDA.
Something very recently I have personally discovered... Use the system against itself.
Something like this bill that is so obviously tainted by corporate greed and manipulation needs to be quashed. Issues like legitamate creation of products, backing up of software YOU OWN, mixing CDs from your own CDs; these are all things that very well could happen. However, the largest atrocity of all of this is the fact that eventually places like /. will no longer exist. Public forum will be banned because we are copying their IP. What about competition? If I create a Word Processor, and it is better than M$'s Word, with this law they could swoop in and say I stole their IP, without regard to the fact that I created it on my own merits.
The end result here is the fact that this has much greater complications and consequences than what we are all coming up with. This could be very far-reaching to where we live in a very GATTACA-like country. This must not happen.
Things to do:
Something has to be done. Although my voice may not be loud, if you gather enough voices, we will all be very loud.
"Stupidity is like neclear energy; it can be used for good or evil, and you don't want any on you."
Yeah, there aren't any former politicians serving as board members for large companies...
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
NEWS FLASH REPUBLICANS CONTROL CONGRESS - BOTH HOUSES. Any legislation you don't like can be directly blamed on them since they control everything and have for more than a decade. DMCA was passed by a REPUBLICAN controlled congress.
Contact your FEDERAL senators about this bill...was The DMCA not enough.....If enough pleople speak out aginst this it will be defeated.
It's clear that Senator Hatch is of the community that believe the best way to prevent mosquito bites is to throroughly apply thermonuclear detonations in and around the area in question, thereby killing all the places that mosquitoes are known to proliferate.
Why not add "further breathing" of persons guilty of infringing on intellectual property will also be made illegal, and all efforts will be made to stop said breathing...
At what point exactly did our legislature decide that the constitution was being printed on toilet paper? At what point in our history did, making money, and controlling property supercede the the rights of the citizen, the advancement of the society, and the fulfillment of future generations. These my friends, are sad times indeed.
Genda
Looks like I'll have to throw out my brand new canon 10d because everyone knows i can take pictures of books, magazines, art, paintings, engineering and drafting designs, etc... Oh well!!!!!!
Orin Hatch wanted to be a rock star but nobody likes his crappy music so, like a whinny little baby he retaliates with a vengence never before seen in a US representitive.
The US congress SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN. It was designed over 200 years ago in an age when there was no other way to represent the people of this country.
Congressional representitives should have to disclose what companies they have holdings in so the American Public can really see that there ARE NOT being represented.
But of course, my idealism is starting to show now.
As far as the constitution as others have posted, today it has no real meaning, it's just a historical piece of paper to wipe the american publics ass with.
Let them continue with the rampant ideas of stiffling innovation. Then the US will be left behind as other countries take the lead in the technology industry and the US tanks....
Recently, UK pass a similar Sunny Bono copyright act and the UK wanted to put on a celbration of one of it's most noted authors. The authors grandson, now with renewed copyrights told them that they can't publically display, read, act out any of the authors work without paying him royalty fees. Can you say, a bite in the ass, well parliment pass another law in emergency session that basically invalided his rights to collect royalties for the authors work. GOOD TO BE THE KING!!!!!
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
Stop whining and do something about it!
I believe the gaining momentum and popularity of Open Source is directly related to the increase in out of control copyright and patent policies. The more barriers/restrictions/controls corporations put on their customers to use the content that they paid for, the more people will turn away from their product to pursue a more open channel for content.
I personnally swore never to buy another version of MS Office because of the protection put on the software to lock it to a single machine. I don't appreciate being treated like a criminal, and now I can just use Open Office instead. I used to buy a lot of MS software but now I won't touch it.
Same with Intuit Quicken. I won't buy any more of their products because of the way they treat their customers. Even though I used to buy their quicken software every year (up to 2001).
Both companies have lost out on a lot of purchases I used to make because they started treating me like a criminal and controlling how I used the software I paid for.
I think open projects like Wikipedia and Open Source text books will thrive and blossom in this hostile copyright environment that has been created in the US. Information wants to be free of the represive regime corporations put it in.
So, that's how much it costs to buy a U.S. Senator. I hadn't really set my heart on it as I've heard about the sanitation issues. However, while currently beyond my means, I'm rather surprised how little it takes.
If I'd known, I could've saved earlier, as I did for my home, and bought myself a U.S. Senator. Wow, the idea just seems so surreal. But, again, the sanitation issues...
= 9J =
The NRA is hugely successful because its members write hundreds or thousands of *hand-written* letters to congressmen all over the country. I interned for a congresswomen (Lynn Woolsey) and I can tell you that they consider 15 letters on any issue to be a "big response". We CAN make a difference in this arena. For info goto:
www.senate.gov
Here is CA's info:
Boxer, Barbara - (D - CA) Class III
112 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3553
Web Form: boxer.senate.gov/contact
Feinstein, Dianne - (D - CA) Class I
331 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3841
Web Form: feinstein.senate.gov/email.html
You're absolutely right, I8TheWorm.
Both faces of the Party Of State Power loath individual freedom, they have deliberately parceled out every issue over the years to try to polarize the voting public into as close to 50/50 as possible, so that which ever candidate the industrial/military complex wants to have elected can be just by shifting the press coverage a little.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Which is why we'd be a lot better off with the Constitutional Party. I think it combines the best of the Libertarian (before they went off their rocker during the last decade) with an unwavering dedication to the Constitution.
Compare the Constitution Party platform
Good
with the Libertarian
A little over the top
For example, what are we supposed to make of this:
"We recognize the right to political secession by political entities, private groups, or individuals."
Or this:
"We oppose any abridgment of the freedom of speech through government censorship, regulation or control of communications media, including, but not limited to, laws concerning:"
Then going on to rule out any control whatsoever of obscenity.
Mind you, either party has more intelligence in their little finger than all the Demicans and Republocrats put together.
Actually, when prominent Libertarian candidates speak, they reveal FAR more simple minded and objectionable thoughts than anything in platform.
I'm a Brit, so I'm a little bit out of the loop here, but EVERY time the name of Orrin Hatch appears in the media, he is pimping and lobbying for Hollywood/Madison Avenue.
Maybe I haven't quite grasped the niceties of American politics, but aren't senators supposed to do things in the interests of their constituents? Or is everyone in Utah a rabid copyright litigant?
Maybe you should have let them secede back in 1862 and saved yourselves a whole lot of trouble..
You can still get royalties if you do work for hire. It all depends on your contract. What you do give up, however, is any claim to copyright.
Comic book artists for Marvel and DC work this way all the time. So far as I know, all contracts for these companies specify "work for hire." If a particular issue of a comic reaches certain sales goals, however, the artist gets a royalty. It's stipulated in the contract. On the other hand, if Marvel decides to take a drawing the artist did in one panel of the comic and slap it all over backpacks and lunchboxes, the artist gets nada. Zero. (Unless the policy has changed in the last few years.) The company owns the art and they can do whatever they want with it. It was work for hire, case closed. Though they do pay royalties for the initial publication, that was really just a scrap they threw to the artists in the late 70s or early 80s, to prevent them from being aggressively poached by the competition. They could rescind the policy any time they wanted.
Breakfast served all day!
Another idea would be to go to the local political party conventions. I went to the Democratic convetions and gave some reporters an earfull on my opinions of Ashcroft. It ended up both on TV and in a local newspaper. Local news loves to hear something new from someone who knows what their talking about, especially if it's controversial.
Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
The problem is, nobody cares! For example, even my Libertarian friends don't care about DRM - their view is that "corporations can do whatever they want with their product," even as I explain to them the free speech issues, and fair use issues. And these are college students, who are computer literate (well, mostly).
My parents didn't even understand what DRM is, and when I explained it to my Mom, she agreed that it was bad (actually, she didn't even believe me at first) - but she won't vote against it, because it's just not as important as the War On Terrorism (TM) and health care.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
What is it about musicians (Hatch is one) and the RIAA that seem to think that the pop crap that they shovel on to the airwaves or any place else is so damn important that they need to overhaul copyright laws and restrict technology? About 90+% of this garbage will be forgotten in less than a year, but the draconian laws will continue to harm technological innovation for years to come.
The 'limited time' phrase with respect to copyrights wasn't meant to be an eternal method for milking royalties from the public. Why doesn't the music industry just wise up and treat P2P trading for what it is: free advertising. CD sales should also be considered a 'loss leader' and meant to drive ticket sales to live concerts. Oh, yeah. That would require cultivating musicians that actually put on a good live show and don't require a small army of sound engineers to make something that sounds halfway decent. Not to mention giving up control to the people who create the music and their fans. What was I thinking!
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Best served lightly chilled. In your case, check the
expiry date. I think it's past best before.
When Johannes Gutenberg invented the movable type in 1440 A.D., an awakening revolution swept the world -- The Age of Enlightenment. People could afford to buy printed books, and they could be printed cheaply. Education was no longer only for just the wealthy! The first book to be printed en mass? The Bible. Now it could be argued that someone, somewhere along the line held the copyright to the collection of books, if not the collected authors of each book. Was Gutenberg the first person to rip off a book for his own gain? Previous to the printing press, the bible was hand written by monks, and sold to the wealthy. If lesser people had access to a set of Scripture, it was memorized and recited to others as chants.
Growing up as a kid, the first thing I did with my paper route money was to buy a cassette recorder from Montgomery Wards. (with condenser mike, no less) I wanted to record my favorite songs off the radio, cutting out the drivel, leaving something worth listing to. Maybe that made me a criminal at age 12? Oh, wait, we already have teenage criminals that basicly copied and traded music like I did -- I just did it in a less technical way. (swapping tapes at school)
Maybe, if extremes could be acted out, we would have our own Fahrenheit "2005", where it would be illegal to have anything that could infringe on anothers copyright. The copyright police could go around and smash and burn anything they felt was in violation.
Contributors? How about the public library! If I can go to the library and check out a book, but if I need/want the volume, I can make a photo copy of it, or even hand write the text down for distribution or my own use. Should we ban the library also, as contributors? How about a pencil? I can write the lyrics to a song down and walk around singing it -- thus infringing on the song writers copyright.
This bill reeks of Orwellian overtones. :-(
Newt-dog
My Doctor prescribed daily nasal saline irrigation, hehe
Programming isn't an art.
Programming well is.
There is a huge difference between churning out some messy code that 'works' and creating code that is readable and maintainable.
> Even more, it could ewen make learning how to build them illegal,
> effectively banning education in electrical engineering, the knowledge of
> which could, of course, be exploited to create digital copies of a work.
Knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Intelligent and well-informed people are harder to control.
Education should only be available to the members of the ruling class.
> Glad I'm canadian, we'll probably invade you when you are back to sticks and stones...
Be afraid instead.
The next step will be to use the full political, economical and, if necessary, military might of "the land of the free" to bring other countries "in line".
...because they have dual use, preparing food and also breaking the law by being used in a stabbing.
America, land of the free? My arse it is. In soviet russia etc.etc.
I am NaN
That's how American pseudodemocracy works. Legislators work for their financial backers, not their voters. In other news: WWF wrestling isn't real either.
...because they can copy possibly copyrighted songs, ditto photocopiers, digital cameras (taking a photo of a copyrighted document for example). I cannot believe that the dishonourable senator actually thinks he is acting in the interest of america with this piece of shit masquerading as a bill. For shame.
I am NaN
go crawl in your fucking selfish, fascist,corporatist hole and blow your brains out.
maybe your guts as fertilizer will allow you to do 1 decent thing before your corpse rots.
fuck you asshole
I'm currently a resident of Utah and I cannot tell you how embarrassed I am every time I hear "Senator Orrin Hatch ..." come up in a newscast. This man wants also to amend the Constitution to permit naturalized citizens (meaning not born here) to run for the Presidency just because he's buddies with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I do everything I can to spread the word that this guy is a class A dunce and some people I talk with are coming around and wising up. You can't afford to be utterly clueless about tech in a tech-driven world, it's starting to spill over into our basic rights for crying out loud!
fuck off mother fucker
On Spending: Question, why SHOULD the federal government be subsidizing state/local programs. Instead of congress doling out money to the states, why don't they shift the tax burden by lowering federal taxes and raising state taxes. (Even with state and local taxes, the federal government still takes more than both state and local combined.) Besides, states would do a much better job with most of the social spending as they are closer to the population they are serving and have a better idea about the relative cost of living, and relative poverty etc.
Obviously military spending isn't the culprit of our current problems as it has been steadily declining (in relative terms to revenue and other spending) over the last 20 years or so. (though i can think of plenty of ways to "reallocate" how we are spending our money there).
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
According to the brief filed by the economists in Eldred vs. Ashcroft there is little incentive to make copyrights last longer than 50 years. When you do what finance types would call "discounting to present value" you learn that earnings more than 50 years away essentially have almost no value. Thus they don't factor into the creation of new work (the purpose of copyrights). The only good thing about Eldred vs. Ashcroft is that the ruling means that congress SHOULD be able to retroactively REDUCE the term of copyright (since they can extend it retroactively according to SCOTUS).
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
This is interesting. This is the second time I've made a political post that drew a lot of attention, and the exact same thing happened: First, its ranking took off to +5, and then it sank back down. Do Republicans come into discussions late or something?
You know when it's okay to shout fire in a crowded theatre? When it's on fire.
If you use dvdx2 on the Xbox to watch DVDs, it will always say the movie is rated above what parental controls are set to and ask if you want to continue, even if parental controls are disabled. Of course, dvdx2 is a hack to play DVDs without the remote, so that could just be a bug. Note that the built in DVD player on the Xbox does not have that issue.
Hatch, Republican senator of Utah, represents SCO in Congress. He can go to hell.
--
make install -not war
Whats next, ban electricity as it can be used to power devices that can be used for illegal purposes
the MPAA/RIAA are totally out of control
Well actually I was thinking that this has been a slow degrade in media since the radio came to the fore. If you look at any literature from the American Revolution, things like "liberty" and "freedom" were something Americans religously believed in. We continued to have that additude until it began to slip away in the 20th century. Instead of being cornerstones of every American citizen's beliefs, it's become something like background radiation. I think you're right though, that we (or most people anyway) only focus on the present. We've become so enamored with flash bang technology, and instant gratifacation that our forsight has all but disappeared. Which brings up the question, what will become of a country of people who can't see past their daily lives?
Hatch is a conservative Mormon who has denounced pornography in the past and who suggested last year that copyright holders should be allowed to remotely destroy the computers of music pirates.
This on top of Disney (I am convinced the adult audience for the diarrhea that Disney has been pumping out are all mormons), and the use of sex to get the desperate to convert (and yes, they do do that). They're like one rung above Christian Scientists, and two above Scientologists on the "I want to smash this guy's head into a cinder block wall" scale.
At least they're turning into another Catholic church...where you have the insane believers and the emotionally damaged former believers (born into the church, usually) who are actually tolerable.
Oh yeah, and -3 Flamebait seems appropriate.
1) No, military spending is currently rising in proportion to other budget items (you probably looked at some graphs that truncated under Clinton or shortly after Bush took office before his budgets passed). We're now spending about half of the world's total military budget. It *was* declining under Clinton...
2) The percentage of military spending *is* significant.
Personnel: $109B
Operation/Maint.: $67B
Research: $66B
Construction: 6B
Housing: $4B
Retirement: $44B
DoE nuclear weap.: $17B
Misc: NASA military projects, Int. security, Homeland sec., executive office expenses, etc: Hard to say; probably between $10B and $50B
Adding in Afghanistan and Iraq operations, you're looking at close to 600B$.
Then, there's past military expenses that we racked up but didn't pay for at the time. 69B$ in veterans benefits, and since about 80% of our national debt was from military spending, about 280B$ in interest. Lets be kind and not count the latter (even though the costs are quite real), and say our *current* spending rate is 670B$/yr. So, we're looking at about a third of current federal spending going to the military. Even a minimalist approach will get you about 450-500B$/yr - no laughing matter, to be sure.
3) What "less than optimal" behavior are you referring to as your justification presented for your proposed tax policy?
You know when it's okay to shout fire in a crowded theatre? When it's on fire.
This is EXACTLY what the first ammendment was written to prevent. It's one thing to ban contibutions to individual candidates (which one can argue isn't speech, but merely a form of graft/payoff) but limiting the spending of political groups and individuals ADVOCATING policy or candidates is a CLEAR VOILATION OF THE FIRST AMMENDMENT. Frankly, McCain-Feingold is a bigger violation of civil-liberties than the DMCA, PATRIOT ACT, and all the rest of these bills we all worry about here on slashdot. Only on slashdot do people defend pedophlia and porn under the guise of free speech, but rail in favor of "taking the money out of politics" (ie, government censorship of political speech.
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
Hit him with a clue stick :P
Of Senators and Congressman who vote yea for this type of legislation? I want to be sure I'm never voting for them and that my friends and relatives are informed.
anyone?
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
This is just another attempt to pass the SSSCA/CBDTPA. I was wondering when they would try again and use "think of the children" as the reason.
"If you want a Bananna Republic that bad why don't YOU go move to one!"
You're dead wrong that civilians with small arms can't stop a large military though. Did you happen to see how well the people in Afganistan did against the Soviets for so many years? (grandparent)
Unless we're including Stinger missiles and RPGs in our definition of "small arms", the Afghans were certainly not limited to small arms when fighting off the Soviet invasion.
And even with Stinger missles in civilian hands, there is nothing we can do to stop a tyranical government with nuclear weapons if they are willing to use them.
So you gotta ask yourself, are the people in charge willing to use them against their own civilian population? Do they believe in Armagedon? Do they think Armagedon would be a Good Thing? Are they Christian Reconstructionists?
What can you do against an enemy that considers Scorched Earth to be a viable strategy.
Nobody died when Nixon lied.
I'm meeting you half way you stupid hippies!
Here's a broad overview of all U.S. goverment corruption, from 3 movies (soon to be 4) and 35 books: Unprecedented Corruption: A guide to conflict of interest in the U.S. government. It definitely looks like you are right, things are not going well.
Yeah, but the President signs it into law.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Gimme an F! F! Gimme an U! U! Gimme an C! C! Gimme an K! K!
What's that spell ? FUCK! What's that spell ? FUCK! What's that spell ? FUCK!
Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam, Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun, We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast; Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds - The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won. When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.
And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why. Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Huh!
Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow, Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made. By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb, They drop it on the Viet Cong.
And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why. Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land, Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate, Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block, To have your boy come home in a box.
And it's one, two, three What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Seem like we need a new Woodstock ?
That's what Ralph Nader suggested. I don't know if he was the first.
It would be ammusing but until then we have opensecrets.org.
They document stuff like this. If everyone researched the canidates before voting we might have a lot less scumbags in office. The main problem is that usually both the Democrat and the Republican are scumbags and everyone is too afraid to vote third party.
Nobody died when Nixon lied.
I'm meeting you half way you stupid hippies!
Has the industry learned NOTHING from the Betamax case? VCRs SAVED the motion picture industry, paving the way for DVDs, both of which have added billions and billions of dollars to their profits. Duh!
I never knew you were a high profile person. Oh wait. Your not. He specifically stated a HIGH profile mormon.
Read all about it here:
/ 20 040617-3.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/06
Who will guard the guards?
There is life beyond two parties. Tell your friends, tell you neighbors, tell your family.
Simply put: Hatch and his kind are cunts.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
"Guns are not the problem. They are inanimate objects. Gun control advocates talk as if guns could act on their own, as if human beings cannot control them, so the uncontrollable guns must be banished."
And is there some reason why gun control nuts can't understand this? Do they honestly believe that violence will just go away when firearms disappear?
Everyone listen closely: Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Libertarians make sense, Republocrats make noise.
Someone one please mod the parent up. +1, Common Sense.
Hatch must do SOMETHING for his constituents, but all we ever hear about is him taking care of his johns.
Surely the EFF or a similar group could buy a few senators to protect civil liberties...
I'm looking at long term trends in defense spending as a percentage of real GDP. Even 600 Billion in FY 2004 would not be unrealistic by historical comparison. (The CBO and OMB have actual figures if you want to look but I don't have the space here for that kind of data.) Where the budget has expanded over time has been primarily social programs. You can argue their value, but you can't blame our present problems on "spiraling defense spending" which seems to fluxuate between 3-6% of GDP during "peace time" Social program spending OTOH continues to take a larger and larger share of our total income over time (not just increases in spending, but increasing in the percent of income budgeted to that task.
3) My talk about optimality in regards to taxes was just a reference to the fact that taxes alter wealth and tax rates alter behavior by changing our incentives to do certain things. Thus taxes cause varying degrees of inefficiency, economically speaking. (I'm not denying that taxes are necessariy to fund certain kinds of things, "public investments" if you will. The question is are the investments profitable (including the opportunity/economic costs)). Wealth transfer is primarily done for political reasons, not because it is a good idea economically. To quote Bill Lucas from the U of C, "The potential for improving the lives of poor people by finding different ways of distributing current production is nothing compared to the apparently limitless potential of increasing production."
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
Sometime in the near future...
Satan: "Welcome to Hell. Do you like Pineapples? I have one for every dollar you accepted from the RIAA/MPAA groups."
Senator-for-sale Hatch: "Uh, no thanks. I never had a taste for them."
Satan: "Oh, you won't be tasting them. I'm going to need you to grab your ankles for the next few millenia."
Wow. The state of Utah must have something in the air. Mormons, "cold fusion", SCO, and now Hatch too. Might as well be called An Open Air Museum of Stupidity.
They don't make a big deal about it now but if you look at the history of polygamy (LDS Infobases is all you need which you can by at any LDS bookstore for about $50) you find out lots of things. Just do a search for the word "polygamy." Journal of Discourses is the key section which contains all the writtings of the prophets of the church. It's not commentary from later people looking back.
"We did leave the United States, and now Congressmen say, if you will renounce polygamy you shall be admitted unto the Union as an independent State and live with us. We shall live any way, and increase, and spread, and prosper, and we shall know the most and be the best-looking people there is on the earth. As for polygamy, or any other doctrine the Lord has revealed, it is not for me to change, alter, or renounce it; my business is to obey when the Lord commands, and this is the duty of all mankind. "
Journal of Discourses
Volume 11
Page 111
Brigham Young
"Don't you think that we are in very great danger now?" We should be if the Lord did not rule. We should always have been in danger if the Lord did not reign. We should always have been in danger if He had not taken care of us. "But," say some, "don't you think that when our Legislature meet they had better go to work and pass a law doing away with polygamy?" No; no such thought ever enters my mind; and as I said in the few remarks I made this morning:
"We want no cowards in our ranks
Who will our colors fly
We call for valiant-hearted men
Who are not afraid to die."
No yielding up of principles that God has revealed. What, turn our backs on Jehovah! and place ourselves in the hands of men who would deprive us of the last vestige of liberty, and take our lives if they had the power! What! shall we forsake God our Heavenly Father? No, never! And all who are for God and His Kingdom say Amen.
Journal of Discourses
Volume 24
Page 358
George Q Cannon
The current "prophet" claimed that polygamy was no big deal and only practiced by a few. I have about a dozen pages going from the initial "revelation" through the conflict with the US to today.
I have hundreds of pages of studies on the church and a diploma from one of their institutes. I'm debating whether or not to put it all back on-line. I'm not sure what purpose it would serve.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
double times zero is zero :)
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
You no longer have the right to bare arms. So hold still while we chop them off. That's right, your arms can be used to kill. Thankfully your right to keep them attached your body is in the constitution. They won't ever try to change anything in the constitution. oh wait...
The dream act has 47 cosponsors now and well it looks like a totally dead bill. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:SN015 45:@@@P
Hmmm... Pie...
"When was the last time you saw something like that for something that wasn't happening yet?"
Just prior to the recent invasion of Iraq. Millions of people the world over (a million in Italy alone), protested. I'm not being funny, but how do not know this? Did the American media not mention it?
BTW, I also despise Disney. And I go to church every week.
And, I was even a missionary for my church for two years (and I was never pushy -- the moment someone said "not interested" I thanked them and moved on). Sex for converts? What in the world are you talking about? Comments like that make me think you are completely nuts.
The act says "intentionally induce".
The chilling effect from discriminatory enforcement of the overbroad law is what makes it so wrong and so corrupting to the rule of law. "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." -- Tacitus
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Me.
"We did leave the United States, and now Congressmen say, if you will renounce polygamy you shall be admitted unto the Union as an independent State and live with us"
don't you understand?
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Being the "Devil's Advocate" means you argue as best you can for a point of view you disagree with, a feat you managed to spectacularly fail at. I shall now proceed to shred your post with diabolical gusto.
-"We all know the fallacy here. It's the idea that the creator can tell when someone has 'stolen' from them. [snip] With data this is not the case."
This is a variation on the old "everything is legal if you don't get caught" concept. Its actually very easy to tell: If no purchase appears in any database, and you can't produce a legitimate physical copy, then a court would probably decide that it is an illegal copy. If the plaintiff can produce extra evidence (ie unrestricted P2P listings correlated against IP address) then you are definately, 100% screwed unless you can show verifiable proof that you are legally entitled to every single file in your possession; even then you can still be done for illegal distribution. That is, I'm afraid, the way it works (think about it for a moment: extending your line of reasoning leads to the implication that it should be impossible to prosecute anyone for any kind of computer fraud; this clearly isn't the case).
The fallacy that you subscribe to is the notion that legal copies will be verified by some element contained in the file: WRONG! Even if you defeat the DRM built into iTMS downloads, iTMS (and your credit card company) still has a record of your purchase which can be used as corroborating evidence; this is the trail a court will follow, not looking for ID tags in the data, since, if DRM and ID tags can be removed they can be forged, while a retail database is far harder to falsify. Clue: very few judges are hackers, but most can read a sales record sheet or credit card statement.
Since copyright is civil law, rather than criminal, it is effectively up to the respondant to provide proof there is no violation (ie reciepts); if copyright violation were a criminal offence the prosecutors would have to provide direct evidence that the law was broken, so perhaps it would be better if it were a criminal offence, as it would be harder to prove, and the BSA/*IAAs wouldn't be involved. Somehow, I don't think you want that, since those involved in file sharing now would be looking at criminal charges; Uncle Sam doesn't settle out of court.
-"With normal property the creator no longer has the thing which was stolen from them."
Once again you have (boringly) pointed out that copyright violation is not theft (and you had to raise the point yourself in order to argue against it; ever heard of a "straw man"?). Yes, its copyright violation, not theft, we get the point; even among geeks, pedantry is tedious and unproductive, so STFU about it will you?
The point that you fail to understand from the content creator's view is that by violating coyright, you are making use of someone else's work, with no regard to rewarding them for their effort. You ARE effectively robbing them of control over how their work is used, which is a right enshrined in the US constitution and applies equally to individuals and Megacorps. Now, I don't see how your "need" to play with Photoshop or to stick it to the **AAs takes precedence over the constitution, since you are free to find alternatives: GIMP over Photoshop, Linux rather than Windows, shadow puppets instead of movies, humming a tune rather than buying the CD. What, you want something more entertaining than shadow puppets? Well, if that involves other people doing work to achieve that, then you owe them something for their work. Insisting other people work for you for no reward is called "exploitation", which, in my view, is considerably worse than theft, being the direct mistreatment of human beings. Isn't exploitation what makes the RIAA evil, and if so how is exploitation by individuals who pay nothing an improvement over exploitation by companies that pay a pittance, but at least have an effective promotional presence? Last I heard, nerds weren't effective for word-of-mouth advertising, since t
Yeah, just like 'possession of [insert drug here] with intent to resale'?
'Intent' from a legal perspective does not equal 'intent' from a common sense perspective. Intent can be legally shown even when the accused HAS NO INTENT to do whatever they are being accused of.
How would you like a regime where merely owning a blank CD is a misdemeanor? Where merely owning more than an arbitrary number of blank CDs is suddenly a felony, because the number of blanks you have shows 'intent' to induce copyright infringement.
If you're not worrying about this, you soon will. And if you don't at least make an effort to stave this off by writing to YOUR elected officials, then you will have NO right to bitch when this law bites you in the ass. And it WILL bite you in the ass. If the US has shown one thing, it's that it has no qualms about enforcing laws in the most jackbooted ways against its own people, even when state law expressly permits the behavior that they are going after.
FC Closer
Now, that said, I must say that I don't think it's being handled well right now. Ideally, it should have been handled a decade ago (the 1991-2 operation should have removed the government then, or at least aided the Kurds in their efforts in a more substantial way). After 1998, it was bound to have a bad end; Things had progressed too far. Still, it didn't have to be this bad. The world response to US action now was too little, too late. The US reaction was too much, too late.
Where were your protests in the 90s? Where was global military action in the 90s? Where was US comitment to government change in Iraq in 1992? This was predictable. It was forseeable. It was avoidable. I'm not blaming any one nation, just about everyone screwed up on Iraq. The UN went in to do a job in 1991, and only did it halfway. It was a recipe for disaster.
There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
they didn't threaten to leave. They left the states without threat as Utah was still a territory at the time. They threatened to fight to the death for the doctrine rather than join the union. My mistake.
One of the leaders is calling for only those willing to die for the doctrine of polygamy to join the church. And the modern "prophet" claims it was no big deal. What kind of non-issue asks one to give their life?
It takes very little research in the one area of polygamy to see how full of it the modern LDS "church" is. Just because you choose to ignore the lies doesn't mean they're not there documented in black and white.
It's not surprising the modern "prophet" calls it a non-issue. The history of polygamy is one of the big reasons people leave the "church." Calling it a non-issue placates people into not looking into it much.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
I flat out stated that Utah should be a seperate Mormon nation. And I wasn't being serious. But you asked so now I'm giving you the details on the history of polygamy which you apparently aren't familiar with in any real level of detail.
The "prophets" after much fierce rhetoric about dying for the cause of polygamy finally caved when they realized how it wasn't going to work out for them. They'd look pretty silly being a territory completly surrounded by states. There's also a huge financial and political advantage to being part of the US. Orin Hatch is currently abusing his role in that area. Power and money always win out over doctrine (or constitutional rights in Hatch's case) no matter how much you wanted people to die for it previously.
Utah != most of the western US. They didn't control the entire western continent at the time.
"Every school child in Utah knows that statehood was delayed because of the issue of polygamy."
Yes, and Christopher Columbus had an effect on the Indians when he got here.
Apparently they don't fill in the details much if they believe the current "prophet's" stance that polygamy was no big deal practiced by a few. Since pretty much all the LDS believe this, I'd say very few have taken the time to actually study the full history of polygamy.
I have the Brigham Young manual. It's as watered down as you can possibly get.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
The nice thing about laws like this (for the men with the jackboots) is that it can be utilized to go after almost anyone. Will the passage of this bill cause a nationwide police sweep to remove all the VCRs? No... but try this. Police officer wants to look in your house. He peeks in the window. He sees a VCR. Since a VCR is technically now illegal, a judge will probably hand them the right to search your whole house.
We create a class of people to protect us (police officers) and they spend about 10% of the time serving and protecting and 90% of the time arresting people for pointless stupid shit... and thus we have the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world.
It's not making copiers and VCRs illegal, it says that if you show someone how to copy something and induce them into copying it illegally, then you have done something illegal yourself.
I think the copyright laws need to change to make fair use mean something again, and make it so Mickey is finally public domain, but saying this act is some fascist, Republican plot is absurd.
-John Van Voorhis
The most distinctive thing about the IZH35M, however, is its immense walnut-stained hardwood grip. This gun is designed for one purpose: offhand target shooting.
Growing up, I approved of the Republicans- being a fiscal conservative and all.
... and while the Democrats could learn a little more restraint, they at least keep their spending within reasonable boundries, in stark constrast to the Republicans.
... equally as bad, were it not for the Republicans penchant for adding direct censorship in the name of "the children" on top of the more subtle but equally real censorship both parties favor in the name of copyright.
I too am fiscally conservative.
What is interesting, if one looks at the history of Repubican vs. Democratic spending over the last 80 years, one finds that the Democrats are actually far more fiscally responsible than the Republicans.
However, the Republicans have been far more successful at propogating the appearance of being fiscally responsible in the uninformed public's eye, largely as a result of their spending of trillions on defense and assorted industrial pork projects, while the Democrats spend mere billions on social programs and assorted industrial pork.
In other words, one party spends pennies on the dollar on the poor, while the other stuffs dollars on the dollar into the pockets of the wealthy, yet the party wasting record amounts of money (for the second time in three decades) and running up record deficits (again, for the second time in three decades) maintains the reputation for being fiscally responsible simply by brazenly preaching fiscal responsibility while refusing to follow their own advice.
It is strange indeed, the mentality of America in which giving pennies to the poor is seen as far more wasteful than handing dollars hand over fist to the rich.
The Republicans need to do more than become a lot more liberal on social issues. They need to learn how to budget
All that having been said, the Democrats are nearly as bad as the Republicans on the IP front
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Nice try. That's not the same gun you mentioned before.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.