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Half Life 2 Available, Delays Not Valve's Fault
Evil Avatar has the word that even Best Buy is selling Half-Life 2 boxes at this point. If you're planning on picking this one up it should be available pretty much anywhere. Voodoo Extreme has news from Steam that in no uncertain terms are the delays in opening the game to customers their fault. From the article: "This is not Valve's choice. Vivendi is insisting that the game has not yet been released, and has threatened that Valve would be in violation of its contract if we activate the Half-Life 2 Steam authentication servers at this time."
Everquest 2... check
Doom3... check
Half-life 2... check
Duke Nukem Forever... hmmm
(and Shacknews)
Hey Vivendi...seriously, fuck you.
Wow, that blows my mind that a company could be in such a state of denial. How does a situation like this happen? I could see some corporate mixup causing the game to be released early, but to then insist that it wasn't released is pure lunacy...
The game has to be activated via STEAM before you can play it. Even for single player.
ACtivation does not start until Tues. Nov 16th.
But you can drool over the box and wear your T-shirt until then!!
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
This will either result in:
- People downloading a crack
- People returning the game
- People deciding not to play the copy protection game
All three look good to me, and should hopefully promote a more copy-protection free future. As far as blaming Vivendi... Did Vivendi put the authentication in there? No?! Hmmm...
Whose fault is this really, then?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
I want to play as much as anyone, but we've all known for some time that the release date is the 16th. They aren't doing anything wrong.
I really will laugh when someone cracks the authenticaion for single player play and releases the iso + crack before people who actually *bought* the game can play.
Valve really needs to find an alternative to Vivendi.
It does seem rather unfair that even the single-player portion of the game needs to touch the Steam authentication servers in order to become active; there appears to be no concession made to those who have no Internet connection (or are unwilling to allow the program to touch the public network).
Even Microsoft, with WinXP's activation, has a do-it-yourself option via telephone.
It's disappointing that a content *delivery* system like Steam is instead being used as a content *regulation* and *denial* system.
Here's the news link direct from valve:
& id =344
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news
I enjoy playing halo2. That makes it a good game to me.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
Sadly, though I know intellectually that your post is completely facetious, there is a little voice in the back of my head that whispers to me "You know people who are dumb enough to believe this..." and then begins listing the names.
This is not a sig.
You forgot the fourth option.
They wait two days and then activate the game and enjoy playing it. What's the big deal honestly?
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
Eh, the crack will be out faster than you can say 'Vivendi take the wang'. I wouldn't worry.
Is this a widespread thing (as in, all Best Buys), or is it just relegated to a couple rogue ones? Because if it's all BestBuys, well damn, I'd better head down there right now :)
My first reaction was "wow, what a bunch of jerks Vivendi U are for keeping this game out of play any longer. I said to myself: 'I'll never spend any money on them (after HL2, of course) again.' But if I were in their shoes, i might feel differently.
What I mean is, if I had a deal with Valve that I would produce and distribute hard copies of HL2, then i would not want to be shafted at the last minute. Vivendi invested a lot of money in the raw materials to produce the copies of HL2 that are being sold. I'm sure it was a shock to them (it was to me, but i hated it for other reasons, i'm sure) when Valve came out with steam and started offering their product in a mode that totally bypassed Vivendi. While it is not illegal, it is certainly a dirtbag thing to do. If that was going to be the deal, Valve should have said so up front. perhaps old habits die hard for ex-MS employees.
In any case, VU would have probably been glad to stop all the legal nonsense and allow Valve to unlock much earlier if they had agreed to share a fair portion from steam purchases (since they're not discounted, apparently) with VU. of course that won't happen. in this case, VU would be shooting themselves in the foot to let any more early releases occur, because what gets sold early is going to be their main profit before the massive remainder of hard copies go to the bargin bin.
i'm just as disappointed as the next guy that I can't play until monday, and that i still have to use steam, for that matter (although that's improved a lot), but VU is just looking out for their best interests and that of their employees.
i'll start feeling warm and fuzzy w/ valve again whenever they hire icculus-the-person to do a port. :)
due to the contract from HL1 it made it so they had to use VU for HL2
I've never quite understood exactly why a distributer is necessary. Well... I get it, but I actually think that they cause enough harm and problems that it offsets any reason for using one. But it seems to be standard practice. Really, making your money selling something someone else worked to produce... and making more money that that person or entity is just unethical. I think we need a new distribution system... one that operates the same way perhaps that open source does. One that provides clear legal protection for property rights and profit margins while cutting out all the fat-catting and middleman bloat of the current system. Imagine it... a world without the RIAA...
It appears that Vivendi was somewhat suprised by the introduction of Steam in the first place, since they likely expected the game they were publishing to be like nearly every other game, where it's goes through just the normal retail chain. Whether Valve was legally within their rights due to whatever contract is something I don't know, but it seems like at the very least there was a misunderstanding, though I have some feeling there was some sneakiness on Valve's part. Now, I have no love for Vivendi, with most game contracts leading to relatively little of the revenues going back to the developers themselves. However... something was awry.
Now, in terms of where we are now with Vivendi supposedly not allowing Valve to authenticate the game... Vivendi would be sacrificing a chunk of their profits if they were to allow people to authenticate, including those with the steam version, since there are many potential boxed versions that would instead be sold online since the hardcore players will want the game as soon as possible. As well, they would be neglecting any deals they have with their distributors on the release date. Now... one thing Valve could possibly offer is the ability to only authenticate those boxed copies that somehow got into the market early. Valve is unlikely to want to do this though, since it would:
a) Require last minute programming of Steam.
b) Cause people to avoid ordering the Steam version in the hopes of finding an early release of the box.
All in all, I hope the fanboys can put their torches and pitchforks away and just wait another few days. It's really not that long!
Audio of someone calling Gabe from valve: http://www.users.qwest.net/~amerrill/nirv-gabe_new ell.wav
This is amazing.
Valve built some kind of retarded copy-protection scheme into Half-Life 2. Now people who have bought the game cannot play it. They are blaming this on Vivendi.
Amazing. Just amazing.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
Eh? That makes my brain hurt. What did they say "in no uncertain terms?"
The image of them standing around and yelling "are the delays in opening the game to the customers their fault" is funny, though.
I'm guessing this meant to say "Voodoo Extreme has news from Steam that says, in no uncertain terms, that the delays are not Steam's fault."
Note: my comment has no useful content. I'm just tired and cranky.
I am rather sure that a lot of distributing deals with it being a mutual contract: I will guarentee that you will have the product to sell by such a date, but you must promise not to sell it if you get it before hand so that my other customers do not claim preferential treatment. I'd be ready to kill bestbuy
If you're angry that VU is being a pain in the ass about this, the best thing you can do is cut them out of the profit stream by buying the game online as opposed to the boxed copy.
John Carmack no longer "simply sits around coding violent computer games." Nor does he need to work for NASA. He has his own spaceship company!
http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/
Now, instead of teaching kids to blow up people one at a time, he's trying to blow up Texas all by himself.
. png
Valve is the one who decided to make it so that the game has to be unlocked before it can be played. Vivendi are being jerks, but it is Valve's own fault for making a pathetic attempt to stop piracy when Microsoft has already proved that method does not work, and is annoying for the user.
It also makes it impossible to play the game on any PC not connected to the net. Even Microsoft allowed phone registrations. Valve does not.
I don't know if everyone see's the same advertisement as I do... but the one to the right of the story says Half Life 2 "In stores 11.16.04" :)
I found it kind of ironic hehe
Technology, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.
Yeah I agree the last really great game for me was Deus Ex. I finished the second one on a matter of hours, which made me mad.
I can't wait to get Half-Life 2, tho. It has real potential to be awesome.
Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
Here's the bittorrent care of Suprnova!
;)
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Notice the 2 links are "Fixed".. Wonder what's fixed about them
Sure, they put the authentication system in place, but was that really their idea? There have been countless cases in the past (the Quake series comes to mind) where publishers have forced developers to include copy protection when the developers didn't want it.
John Carmack has nothing to do with Half-Life 2
I think the grandparent was talking about single player mode. When Half-Life 2 is "retired", will you be unable to play the single player portion because their authentication servers don't support it any more? That is just rediculous.
You sure the last really good one was Deus Ex? what about its sequel? what about Max Payne (1 or 2)? Doom 3? Unreal Tournament 2k3? Battlefield 1942/Vietnam? KOTOR? NOLF2? The Sims (1 or 2)? Warcraft 3? Hitman (1 or 2, but not 'Contracts')? TES: Morrowind? Surely one of those titles also give you raging hard-ons like the one I have right now?
Whether you download it off the net or BUY THE BOXED VERSION, it will NOT RUN without "internet authentication".
How do I put it nicely.. YOu're fucked either way.
the G-Man is Gordon's FATHER! And Barney gets frozen in carbonite! And the physics engine is so good, you'll assume that the whole game is just another boring FPS with lots of scripted events.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
This is clearly just a scheme by Valve to further hurt its relationship with Vivendi. It's obvious that they want to end it, and this is the sort of publicity that they're getting before hand so that when they go to court, they can go point to this and say "Oh look! They won't even let the people who paid for the game play it! They're EVIL!". No. The 'evil' ones are the stores that actually sold the game. The official release date is the 16th of November, and the stores are bound by contract to only start selling the game on that day. If they do allow Valve to enable the game, then this validates this process, and gives the retailers free reign to sell any game as soon as they get it in stock, regardless of release date. This hurts other retailers, and utterly destroys the concept of being able to meet demand. Granted, Valve's Steam gave Vivendi the advantage here, unlike Halo 2, where those who bought it early could still play it. And don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of Vivendi myself, but the way this release has been handled put a damper on the excitement. This petty whining is almost ruining the game. Half-Life 2 is supposed to be the king of everything; after this I don't see it surpassing, or even coming close to, what Halo 2 achieved.
Hey - Vivendi!
I was going to buy the hard copy of Half Life 2 - however I just fired up steam. I don't care if it takes longer (which it probably won't) to get to play it. I am not giving you my money.
Especially after reading This article about Valve and Half Life 2. I now sympathize with Gabe and the delays the game had. I don't really fault him - people make mistakes.
Granted I understand Vivendi's side - but if a publisher only gets $7.00 from a retail game, you start to remind me of the RIAA Vivendi... Download here I come.
To quote George Broussard:
Fuck you.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Will DNF come out when GWB is still president, or will it be Hillary or Arnold by then?
So who exactly decided to force people to activate it over the Steam network anyways? Vivendi sounds like a pretty bad guy, but really, come on now--we flipped out when TurboTax, Adobe, and MS all started activation, but what? Now it's just an accepted part of using software to the point where Valve takes no blame even though they made the decision to exert total control over even the single player HL2 installations?
your argument about retaining control despite legal problems is like saying "we shouldn't have license plates. if it turns out I'm driving a stolen car, I should still be able to drive it regardless. if I pay for something then it's MINE, legally sold or otherwise". (hint: you should not be able to buy HL2 yet, only "pre-order")
I didn't know that HL2 would REFUSE to be run until the 16th no matter what. So, like a good little lemming, I went and bought a copy today when I was at Best Buy. For $80, I thought "what the hell, the higher price will be worth it because I can play it tonight and not have to wait until the 19th to play it".
"The 19th???" you say? "But the game comes out on the 16th, right?" Yeah, but what person with a real job and family can actually play games on weekdays?! Gimme a break....
So, in a way, it IS a big deal. Granted, no one is going to die over this, but it is enough to piss me off to the point where I am considering making a complaint to Best Buy about selling the game before I can even play it. THAT is just not cool...
I already had the HL2 preload. Someone could have saved me around $30 or so by telling me that no matter what I did I wasn't going to get to play the game early.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
WTG with knowing all the facts. VU and Valve are involved in lawsuits with each other. VU doesn't want Valve games distributed over Steam because they wouldn't get any money as publisher. Valve counter-sued and now they're basically hating each other.
It's not denial. It's a legal tactic.
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
Too bad HL was funded almost entirely by Gabe Newell, and HL2 was funded IIRC entirely on HL(as well as CS) profits.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
The "release date" issue is strictly between the retailer and the manufacturer, who have a contractual relationship. The end user isn't a party to any "release date" restrictions and isn't bound by them.
Live by the EULA, die by the EULA.
It is true that you need to activate it even for the single player mode ? If so, or are you suppose to activate it if you don't have an internet access or want to play it 10 years from now when the game won't be supported anymore? That's just plain stupid, I hope it's not true.
...I found out earlier today (saturday evening) that if you happen to mention to a best buy employee that the game in your hand isnt supposed to be out for another 3 days, they happen to flip the fuck out....
"Good night, good work, sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning." - Dread Pirate Roberts
Live up to they hype... ha, that's a good one.
~ Crummy
I have an expectation that I be able to use it then. I do not go buy a hamburger and then wait for permission from Wendy's to be able to eat it, I can devour it while driving away if I like.
If Vivendi doesn't want the game on the market, they need to take the appropriate steps to prevent it from going there. This crap of selling it but not letting you use it till later is just that: crap.
Why is it that people seem to think that creators of digital content should have some kind of unlimited rights to their works. If anything the constution allows a more limited set of rights than on physical property. There has been a long standing concept of Doctrine of First Sale. That means once you sell some IP, be it a book, CD, whatever, you lose control over the copy. Peopel can destrouy it, resell it, whatever, they just can't copy or derive works from the content.
Sorry but Vivendi is just wrong here. If they want to cut the games lose to retailers and allow sales, the damn game better work. Had I bought a copy, I'd be filing a lawsuit on Monday in small claims court (since software companies tell retailers not to take returns on opened merchandise).
Fair enough if true. I'm as happy as the next guy to pay the developer directly.
your peenar, seenyor, she is so teeny.
Put that away before you embarass yourself with it, son.
1) Producing and shipping lots of CDs and boxes, while not all that expensive, isn't something you can just run out and do. Takes lots of machinery and setup. It isn't really cost effective for a game developer to get all that, a much better idea to outsource it to a publisher. They go and handle all the physical end of it, since they are good at it.
2) The distribution bussiness, like most things, it's all above board. You'll find if you are a nobody in the bussiness you just can't get big chains to sell your shit. It's probably illegal, but nothing that can be proven in court. Either way, it's not just something you can break in to.
Now also many developers lack the requisite funds to develop their games and the publishers put those up (in exchange for a cut of the sales). That's not the case with HL2, but another reason why someone might use one.
However for big names like Valve, Epic and iD it's just that it's not really feasable to distribute it themselves. They jsut write the games, leave it to someone else to handle getting it in stores. It's not only easier but actually cheaper for them.
You forgot the line of "--" before your Note...
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Ugh, so much for browsing at 0.
It's going to be fascinating to see if and how long it takes the folks who must be lined up right now to crack it when they can see the traffic to the auth servers.
Regardless of that, the question about what happens if Valve go tits-up is a very good one and actually should apply to any vendor selling protected software. The fact it's $40 instead of $400,000 is irrelevant - there are 400,000 customers potentially losing what they've bought. Unless, that is, the EULA says different.... Has anyone out there with a box actually ready the EULA?
When I worked for a vendor (UK based), we always had to lodge the source code with the NCC (kind of governmental computing standards org) who held it in case we went TU. If we did, the authenticated purchasers had access to the code. Pretty fair solution all round.
Seems like this is something consumer groups and EFF could pick up.
Mike Bakke (not anon but too lazy to reg)
One reason I don't buy games with this type of copy protection is I frequently go back and play older games if I enjoyed them.
Say five years from now Valve is out of business and the Steam servers have been shut down. Half Life 2 won't be playable without a crack - DMCA violation, go to jail.
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
HL2 boxes unplayable
segregrated World of Warcraft servers because they cannot handle a world release. Importing is being made impossible so that English speakers in the EU will have to wait for the French/German translation to be ready... Unless they go and play EQ2 of course...
I sincerely hope that Vivendi goes under in the near future.
You're right, it was a stupid question.
Vivendi is insisting that the game has not yet been released, and has threatened that Valve would be in violation of its contract if we activate the Half-Life 2 Steam authentication servers at this time.
If the contract only requires that the game be released, all they need to do is take a digital camera to Best Buy for proof that it has.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I've never played even the first Halo. But people keep saying that some guy "Master Chief" or somesuch dies in the sequel.
I didn't think Halo was a naval combat game.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I may have anticipated this game a while ago, but all reason for me to spend my money on it has left. As far as multiplayer goes, I just can't justify paying money for a rehashes of old games that were once free additions to a game that already had a fun multiplayer. The single player might be it's saving grace, but that's not enough for me to spend $50-$80 on. Perhaps when some entertaining mods are made I'll grab it from the bargian bin :)
I beat Halo2 within 24 hours of release thanks. I'll beat it on legendary soon enough. :)
You'll be waiting a LOOOONG time. Did you notice how long it took the price of Half Life 1 to drop?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
He has his own spaceship company!
Yeah, too bad all they've managed to do is crash a rocket. Who here wishes Carmack would stop trying to bloody build rockets and code some more violent games?
*raises hand*
Don't you hate meta-sigs?
Try browsing at -1, that's where all the good stuff's at.
If you bought the car in good faith (i.e., didn't know it was stolen) then yeah, you should be allowed to keep it, or at least get your money back.
Similarly, you should be allowed to keep playing, or get a full refund, if there were to be copyright issues with the source code. Why? Because it's Valve's fault -- you bought the game in good faith, and did nothing wrong!
I would argue that Valve should be legally required to operate these authentication servers forever, since the transaction is treated as a purchase, rather than subscription, and there is no contract specifying a time limit. Or, you know, they could just get rid of the authentication to begin with...
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
[i]The first people to play the game will be those who buy it, people waiting on the "free" version will likely be waiting at least a day for it to be cracked.[/i] ...where patience pays off.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Does anyone know when exactly they will allow you to unlock the game?
I know it's supposed to happen on the 16th, and I assume midnight, but is that EST or perhaps GMT?
Or if they go strictly by the international dateline, then in the U.S. we really only have to wait until roughly midday on Monday to play.
Yeah, and it's too bad, too! Maybe if he did it wouldn't be Windows only and wouldn't have authentication that infringes on Fair Use and privacy rights!
[Yes, I'm a Linux user. Yes, I liked Half Life 1. But nooooo, I'm not bitter...!]
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Man, you have no sense of humor!
I mean really, not only was it comically absurd to begin with, but it was a John Carmack troll in a Half Life article. What could be more fun than that?! : D
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Putting aside the CD key problem for a moment, this seriously begs the question,
`Why shouldn't we, as consumers, pirate the games and send money orders of the retail purchase price directly to the game creators?'
Seriously, does anyone know how much money Vivendi Universal get per unit as the of HL2 publishers (in percentages)?
I would really like to play HL2. I've been waiting very patiently for it since seeing some demonstration movies, and now it's available, I'd like to purchase it, but I have a real problem with Vivendi Universal.
I wonder what the response (official and unofficial) from Valve would be if I emailed them and asked,
`Would you mind if I downloaded illegal copies of your games and sent you guys money orders for the retail purchase price?'
VU? FU!
His name is Robert Paulsen...
sigh. People talking about Steam dying (oh it will, it's crap IMO. alot of people have problems.. I miss WON :( ). But any way, if Steam does die Valve will release a final patch for HL2 which will break the auth system so people can still play it, Valve love us monkeymen and know how much we'll adore HL2.
Only problem I see with this is people on 56k (like my 'good' self), we could be forced to DL a patch as we auth... I don't like DLing patchs which I can't automatically resume... and STEAM is exactly that.. but EVERY week... EVERY BLOOD SINGLE WEEK -.-
I like muppets.
Well, I can see ...
- People downloading a crack
- People returning the game
- People deciding not to play the copy protection game
Computer Help
Reset the date on the authentication servers to the 16th and see what happens...
Too bad this does not work on the PC side...
Hadesan
Anyway, I don't really care about Valve and Vivendi's squabbles -- all I care about is that they don't forget that they do not have the right to absolutely control what people do with their software. Once they sell the copy, they have the right to sue if the person who bought it is infringing the copyright, and control how their game servers get used, but that's all.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I shelled out the money for my gold package. My gear arrived on Friday. I'm sitting here in my HL2 t-shirt, HL2 hat, reading my HL2 strat guide, listening to my HL2 OST (boy does it suck), and I have a massive viagra prolonged erection. Come on Valve/VU, how much longer do I have to wait?!?! I don't want to blow until I'm one of the first to log into the server and play!
If I pop one more purple pill to hold hard, I may OD and my augmented wang may spring forth through my skull, killing me. I don't think anyone wants to clean up after that headshot.
Amazon UK has Nov 16th as the release date. Hopefully by the time my pre-ordered copy arrives, the Steam servers will have recovered from the initial onslaught of activations. Of course, if a lot of the people threatening to not buy the game now make good on their words, it'll be plain sailing for me. Sweet. :)
-MT.
-MT.
You're not gonna play Half-Life 2 on a laptop, and certainly not on a laptop so old that it's not got a CD drive.
But what do I know of your expectations. Maybe you're planning to watch "Half-Life 2: The Slideshow" in 320x256?
I noticed that if you right click on HL2 in steam and click "Pre-Loading Status"[for those of us who preloaded[, it now says "When the game is officially released you'll be able to play immediately." As opposed to it previously saying the same thing, minus the officially part.
Question. What about people who purchase Half-Life 2 retail, but simply do not have access to an Internet connection? (IE, they can't authenticate via Steam.)
When do they get to play HL2? CAN they at all?
When i went in to work thursday, BB had sent a note out to employees telling them not to sell HL2. Some stores had started selling it early apparently. If a competitor had a receipt showing they bought it from us early, they could start selling it without fear of losing allocated shipments of the game, or not being able to receive future VU games before their street dates. The retailer on the receipt would face those issues.
So, it looks like BB managed to get a receipt from another retailer selling early. Wouldn't surprise me to see the game for sale nationwide by the end of the day. I doubt Valve will start activating copies early, however.
If Valve unlocked it, people would flock to buy it on Steam, or at least I suspect that is VU's thinking. Only BB are selling it early, and VU want to make as much money as they can, and we know from the litigation that they're not happy with Steam in the first place.
Maybe if every retailer was selling it early, they'd let Valve unlock it, but at the moment with only one retailer pulling in money for VU, it just doesn't appeal.
Ok so to start of I've pre-ordered my copy of HL2 from amazon. Hopefully I'll get it on Tues 16th, possibly the 17th. I have nightmares about going to authenticate with Steam and it's be so overloaded I'll have to wait even longer, but seriously take these points into account:
- HL2 is easily the biggest release this year. Here we are 2 days before the release date, and there is no leak. As of yet no cracked versions floating around on suprnova, even though you can pre-load it & the SDK is out. That is unheard of! What was the last game to come out that didn't leak onto torrent sites way before the official release date? Far Cry? nope. Doom 3? nope. Total War? nope. You can even go get a legit copy from shops (in the US I read anyway) and you STILL cannot play before the release date that has been set. That is a success on all fronts. The fact that you've been allowed to purcahse a copy is purely the fault of the shop - the date is the 16th and has been for a while now.
- You don't have to constantly authenticate with steam to play. Once per install is whats needed. Obviously if you don't have a net connection that sucks, or if you're stuck behind a firewall or NAT'ed somehow so steam won't work. Sorry but that's just the way it is. What about people with old machines? They can't play. What about people with very old gFX cards? They can't play. What about linux users? They currently can't play. Non-net users aren't the only ones unable to enjoy it, but the majority of people will be okay. And about the installing in 20 years time question - yeah that may be an issue, but really how many games do you play from 20 years ago?
Distributors are a necessary part of a market, and they're not inherently evil. A good distributor performs a valuable function of maintaining a supply chain, retail relationships and media relationships that it simply wouldn't be cost effective for a game software team to maintain. They also perform a valid filtering function in terms of the quality and professionalism of games, as well as the level of support you can expect after the release (yes, it's not as good as it could be -- but it could be worse.) Why? Because unlike game teams, which might only be around for one game, the publisher at least has an ongoing interest in their reputation and profitability -- their business objectives are more aligned with your interests as a customer than the game makers.
/. knee jerk reaction that it must be bad just because it makes money.
Yes, they make money off this function. No, it's not a creative function. But it's a valid business and I disagree with the
"Really, making your money selling something someone else worked to produce... and making more money that that person or entity is just unethical."
That only describes probably a good 80% of our economy. How do you think those Cheerios in your breakfast bowl this morning got there? By moving through a series of distributors and marketing entities.
"I think we need a new distribution system... one that operates the same way perhaps that open source does. One that provides clear legal protection for property rights and profit margins while cutting out all the fat-catting and middleman bloat of the current system."
You're presuming that not having distributors would increase the money that gets to game makers. I'd argue it's the other way around -- if Valve had to build up a huge marketing and distribution network just to place HL2 in retail stores for Christmas, there would be almost no chance of a profit -- more likely, it would simply not be done. (Yes, online is an alternative -- but it's still only a small fraction of sales and will remain so for quite a long time in any industry driven greatly by gift buying.)
When you go from physical (retail shelf) distribution, to online, you may see some disintermediation like Steam, but more likely you're just going to see a new form of distributor. iTunes isn't RIAA, but it's just another distributor, and customers much prefer it to going to individual musician's web sites.
Unless you want to allow every game manufacturer to install their own version of "steam" (and we've already heard the bitching that just one caused) eventually Steam or something like it is just going to become another distributor.
(NB: I do not work, nor have I ever worked, for a publisher or distributor of any type of media.)
It's midnight PST so 3AM EST?
I'll just buy r&c 3 on the 16th and play that instead
The easy solution: release a patch that removes the requirement for the product activation. I mean god forbid people be able to use a product they have leagally purchased.
I'm sorrty, but internal corporate bureaucracy does not trump basic consumer rights. They bought it and now they use it. Period. That's just the way it works, depite how much companies would like for it to be otherwise. The only way they'll get away with it is if we let them.
Congratulations Valve/Vivendi, you've just lost yourselves a customer and gotten yourselves added to very many shit lists the world over.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
What kind of laptops are you used to expect? Still the old beater with a celeron 1,4GHz, 32mb shared memory and its HD filled to the brim with Windows, Office and the email folders?
;)
;)
Come on, wake up. We are using laptops to actually play first person shooters. Mobile Radeon, nVidia Go, whatever fits your tastes, but they are quite viable. We are used to celebrate 6 person, 3h instant after-work LANs in the local park. Man, that is relaxing, I tell you. Too bad it's winter now and we have to do that indoors...
Its not as fast as a price-equivalent desktop pc, but the mobility is worth a LOT. Less noise, less power consumption, sleek appearance, high availability. No more heavy lifting for the LAN, no logins from stranger's computers, no important files and data left at home, just one machine all the time. And it doesn't even clutter your desk, has no cables lying around, isn't it nice?
"Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
Maybe you're responding to the wrong post, so that might the cause of confusion here. But, let me say this again: I bought it from Best Buy. Now, why would they not let me play it immediately? And how do you know that Best Buy is the only retailer making money for VU?
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Everyone who is worried about VALVe not supporting HL2 in 6, 8, 10 years, look at Half-Life 1. They still have servers authenticating users every time they want to play online, and that game is 5 years old. I can't see them getting rid of the Steam ID anytime soon, and if you think HL2 won't be around for as long as HL1 has been, I think you're... wrong, basically. And if no one has said so lately, the authentication basically assigns a particular CD-Key to a Steam account, just like how your Counter-Strike CD is associated with a Steam account. Nothing more, nothing less.
This may sound odd, but it is possible in this day in age to own a computer and not have an internet connection. I have several friends living in either northern ontario, or one of the three territories who own a decent computer, but don't have internet access. One still has an old 'party-line' phone in their house, the others just don't have the money to pay for dial & long distance charges. High Speed? Not a chance. Satelite would be the only option, and well out of their price range.
No Half-Life 2 for them, I will pass on the game for privacy concerns, and in protest.
paul reinheimer
The kind of laptop that doesn't have a CD drive (ultra-portable or just really old) isn't going to be able to play Half-Life 2.
No, he was responding to your post. What he's saying is that since BB seems to be the only option for purchasing it at this point, if the authentication servers were turned on, many people who either don't have a BB near them, don't like BB, or had their BB sell out of HL2 would choose to buy it on Steam immediately rather than wait the three days.
His theory is that since VU doesn't make money on Steam purchases, they're holding off on allowing authentication until the 19th, when almost every store in creation will be selling HL2, and thus more consumers will purchase the boxed copy rather than a Steam copy.
In that case, your inability to authenticate is simply an unfortunate side effect of VU's business strategy.
Best Buy never had any official rigth to sell it before the launch anyway.
That's the point.
None of my local stores are selling it so I'm glad a few lucky smacktards can't go in and play it two weeks ago and flaunt, "Ooooh, what a lovely game" to us who have to wait or those who preordered.
Valve said the 16th. The game will be playable on the 16th. Vivendi might be acting like arseholes right now but that does not mean anyone ever had the right to play it before the 16th as was advertised EVERYWHERE.
Complaining about it not being playable until the 16th is akin to complaining coffee is hot and water is wet.
Because they are the only store selling it before the date they're supposed to. That means that up until Tuesday, Best Buy are VU's only source of money. OK, pre-orders and people buying after Tuesday fine, but if Valve unlocked it early because of Best Buy, then BB would be VU's only source of income from the game until all the other stores broke the release date too.
At the moment, the only places to get it from are Steam and BB - and BB is the only one of the two giving VU any money.
I don't care about the content distribution aspect of steam. I'd even opt for it, because the money would go straight in the maker's pocket, and not in the shop/distributor/publisher/whatever.
What gets me fired up however is the ridiculous restrictions they have on STEAM. Want to give your old half-life version to a friend or your little brother? No can do, only option is give your account and password to them (at which point, you might not be able to play your new game at the same time, if they're on the same account)
Want to play your half-life 2 in 10 years, to reminisce or whatever? Good luck.
What I don't like about this scheme is that the consumer gets zero protection for their purchase.
If they fix these issues, like NOW, and not "maybe at a later date". I'd be ok with it. (transfering/detaching CDkey from an account, sunset clause in license about games being unlocked in 5-10 years etc)
The game has to be activated via STEAM before you can play it. Even for single player.
They always said that wasn't required for offine play...
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Does anyone know how HL2 is handling people who own / use multiple computers? I'd like to have a copy at home, but will probably play LAN multiplayer at work. If I download over Steam I'm probably SOL, but what if I have CD's? Do I have to buy twice to authenticate on two machines, even if they're non-concurrent?
The ______ Agenda
Master Chief is a marine.
"If a frog had side pockets, he'd carry a hand gun" - Dan Rather
As soon as the first cracker gets access to all the executable code (on the 16th), we'll start seeing cracked versions. They'll be the ones eventually making it into the abandonware lists. (And very quickly onto P2P networks & FTP sites)
This technique will only aid in preventing the game from being played before release date.
As a sidenote, I wonder how many people will download the cracked version instead of buying the real one simply because it's easier and doesn't have annoying registration issues.
I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
So I had initially been planning on just not buying the game. But then I was wondering if there was a way to send a stronger message, so I was wondering about buying it and returning it to the store.
However, I'm aware there are some issues with stores not accepting returned software. So could someone please give some information on what stores accept returned software, what the policy is, etc?
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
It is for Valve a HUGE interest to unblock HL2 now, as it will cause more people to get the game NOW on Steam rather than LATER in store. As a reminder, Valve get every penny from a licencee on Steam, BUT Vivendi get some money from Boxes which will be bought. (In 4 days, how many HL2 addicts would think "I WANT IT NOW!!" and get it rather on steam? You guess it : 100000 or more!! $$$$$$$$$$) This issue of Valve wanting all the money for themselves ALONE is the origin of Steam creation, why HL2 was delayed, and why there is currently a lawsuit between Valve and Vivendi. So, of course Vivendi is greedy (common', that's capitalism!:), but Valve is greedy AND dishonest. My 2 cents (to Valve ;o)
RIP Slashdot. I used to love you. dead account - but slashdot wont let me delete it.
To all whining about not being able to play the game "10 years from now." Think of this: If Valve decides to end support for HL2, don't you think they would have the intelligence to release a NEW PATCH that would get rid of the online authentication? At this point, 10 years down the road, they aren't going to a give much of a shit if anyone pirates it if it's not a profitable game. But, assuming it is, I'm sure the servers will be up for all you babies.
Aren't you kind of assuming that Valve is unable to turn on the game (just SP for crying out loud) for early purchasers? (And just maybe they are unable to do that, in which case shame on them even further.)
My inability to authenticate is the unfortunate side effect of someone not thinking this through clearly. Don't give VU, Valve, and Best Buy more credit than they deserve on this. This is not like an egg broken on the "frying pan of progress"; it's an oversight, a gaffe, a dumb mistake. It didn't have to happen. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to save face or emitting fanboy reality distortion waves.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Place yourself in the position of Best Buy.
Here you are, Manager of Best Buy in *. In the town of *, $vendor has released Half-Life 2. $vendor is competition to Best Buy, and people are going to $vendor in HOARDS to get Half-Life 2.
You quickly realize that you must do the same, in order to meet competition. So you do, you release the game in your Best Buy store in *.
And quickly it spreads throughout the nation.
Retailers have no choice, they have real cash invested in the physical merchandise.
You can bet your sweet ass Valve is burning hot pissed right now. Vivendi is making sure it sells all it's copies while at the same time able tho hold Valve's distribution channel hostage.
Technically, were I Valve I _would_ release the game NOW. Why? Because, technically - Vivendi HAS released the game already. The game is published and being sold IN STORES RIGHT NOW! No court on earth is going to beleive Vivendi's bullshit excuse that it's not really released yet - any moron who can make it to a retailer selling software right now can confirm this as fact.
On the other hand, I'm sure there is more to this whole story then what we all know..
(And yes, we all know about the lawsuits... )
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Personally, I think it's garbage too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to try to make a statement by not buying it.
As if Vivendi/Valve would listen to one non-customer's complaint and not millions of people who actually purchased the game. That attitude, dude, is also garbage.
I think you're still not understanding. This isn't the result of an oversight OR an "egg broken on the 'frying pan of progress,'" it's pretty clearly the result of VU and Valve's competing interests.
It would be in the interest of Valve to have turned on the auth server before the release of physical copies to spur Steam purchases, it's in the interest of VU to wait until official release day when all the stores have it. It's VU's call to make in this case, so VU wins. Then again, the reason we have an auth server at all is probably in large part due to Valve wanting its Steam preloads to be secure.
So yes, it's the fault of Valve, Steam, AND Best Buy (for selling before release date and landing consumers in this awkward position). All we're trying to do is explain WHY this situation came about, and it has nothing to do with an unintentional oversight or a necessary stumbling block.
Would Vivendi have those copies if Valve hadn't given them permission to?
Nooo... that's why they have a contract.
IOW: They're both to blame. Trying to say it isn't at all Valve's fault is like trying to blame all of WWII on the Germans. There's a lot of people involved here, and the fault lies on all of them. Deciding to blind yourself from other parties isn't just disingenious, it leaves you open to be screwed over in the future.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
... until the actual release date? I wasn't even planning to go look for it until wednesday or thursday. The release date is the 16th, I never expected to even see the game box until at least then.
Freedom: "I won't!"
I've been looking into Windows software packaging applications, in particular Jitit's Thinstall and BitArt's Fusion.
Have you heard of the Nullsoft Scriptable Install System? It's Free, and it works very well.
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/
Or, at a LAN party. Imagine that a year down the track, you're at a LAN party and feel like playing some Half-Life 2. But you already uninstalled it to make way for something else, and you need to reinstall it.
The majority of LAN parties have no Internet connection, so you're screwed... unless you Bluetooth to your phone and connect via GPRS or something, which isn't very friendly anyway.
And of course, there is also the whole deal of buying something that doesn't work. Surely someone can be sued for all this, and I can bet you that at least one angry customer will try. ;-)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
The other thing I just noticed is that on this page, you can clearly see a picture which shows that Half-Life 2 is only 78% "downloaded", after "buying" the game.
I put "buying" in quotes here, because I don't consider 78% of something to be the complete product. As far as I'm concerned, Valve and Co. should be responsible for the remaining bandwidth I need to waste completing the download.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Well, that's a good point, but this is really their own problem. They're the one that decided to introduce a new distribution channel that would threaten the traditional brick & mortar store system and thus their relationship with B&M chains like Best Buy. So instead of pissing off Best Buy, they're pissing off the consumers. Great.
Besides, it seems like plenty of retail stores are already selling HL2 (that's what started the whole problem is the first place). If they let people play, then all of them will start selling them, at least within a day or two. For most people, it's still faster to drive to the store and buy it than download it from Steam. I don't imagine they would really cut into the retail sales that much more.
I resent that. I've been protesting it since XP came out. The first time QuickTax included product activation I didn't notice and bought it. I sent it back under their 100% satisfaction guarantee. I'd had a registered copy every year from 1992 (when it was cantax) until that happened in 2002, so they knew exactly how good a customer I was.
Now as far as "relatively-harmless one-time online activation", that's total BS. It's one-time in the sense that you can only play the game one time. You can't re-install it on a new computer or even the same one without the blessing the of the company. That is incredibly intrusive and harmful to the point that the software is useless garbarge.
It also will be cracked, that's a given. So this only hurts the legit customers.
You can't re-install it on a new computer or even the same one without the blessing the of the company. That is incredibly intrusive and harmful to the point that the software is useless garbarge.
For a non-mission-critical app like a game, that's better than tying it to a piece of physical media IMHO. For most users who aren't super-careful with their discs, the odds of losing or damaging a CD over a few years are greater than the odds of Valve going under.
If Valve had announced a sunset date for the activation policy, would that have made any difference in your opinion? I'm assuming that they'll release a no-activation patch after HL2 is no longer a big player on the retail shelves, just as game companies commonly disable their own CD checks on older products.
I'm not all that offended by the need to activate a game. It does offer advantages to the consumer over current copy-protection practices, and cutting out the bloodsucking retail distribution network can only be a good thing in the end. The idea is a lot less problematic than Microsoft's addition of an intentional point of failure to its OS. Windows Product Activation brought zero benefits to the consumer, but the user base still lapped it up like antifreeze.
The problem is, few users cared enough about WPA to bother complaining about it, much less boycotting it. Thanks to XP's success, the whole damned camel is in the tent. It's sleeping on your cot, using my toothbrush, and knocking the cookstove over with its hump. We can expect almost all big-name PC games to require online activation in the future, because (a) too many people think it's cool to play games they didn't purchase; and (b) only a tiny, tinfoil-wearing minority (which includes myself) has expressed any concern at all about online activation's potential for failure and abuse.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
I take it one step further...I put them all into a spreadsheet, password protected of course, and store it in multiple places (various email accounts, thumbdrives, etc) so that I can:
1) access them anywhere (I'm doing frequent installs - not just games are in here, *all* my keys)
2) Have a backup for when I need to reinstall and can't find the CD and/or key. All I need is A disk that'll work with my key, and I'm set.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
...you don't own software. You buy the disks and a box and a license (i.e. a contract) which is revocable at any time by either party. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
You want to own software? Write it yourself.
My other first post is car post.
Arrrrrrrr! Burn ze castle to ashes! Arrrrr!
Hahaha... Commenting about slashdot on slashdot is offtopic (watch me be modded offtopic now too).
Also, asking people to not abuse the moderator power that they are given is pointless. Power corrupts, don't you know. Power that comes with no responsibility and after now hardship is always going to be misused.
My other first post is car post.
I probably wouldn't be able to afford to buy a game or a computer to play it on. Personally, I'd rather live in a country where I have an opportunity to make some money.
My other first post is car post.
You clearly think that typing the first thing that comes to your mind is an acceptable thing to do when posting here is effectively anonymous. There are two things to consider before running off at the mouth next time:
/. but you, as an engineer, ought to understand that you don't have all the data and therefore you might want to exercise some care before judging people. Or better yet, don't judge them.
/. may appear to be an anonymous activity, it really isn't Mr. "PhatNoise - I drive 16.5 miles to work" Dowling. Need I say more? Many times you may only be in the company of fanboys and kids; but many (possibly most) other times you'll be here with professionals who are every bit as clever as yourself. We're just not carbon copies of you. A little respect by default is always the wiser course of action.
1. This may only be
As for my example, while my tone about the circumstances was certainly whiny, it did NOT imply that I viewed the existence of my family as a negative. It did not imply that I utilized my penis to create that family. It did not even imply that I was or wasn't even wearing pants. Your comment assumed all the above in order to take a shot at me.
2. While posting on
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
For about 15 minutes, I thought you must be someone I worked with. Unless you changed your name though, you appear to be someone named Vincent Platt, from Minneapolis, Minnesota, who worked or works for BORN. You have 3 adopted children, two from Columbia, one from Ecuador. Perhaps it is because of this that you feel superior to others. You're still a whiny bitch. I suggest that if your dick works you go jerk off until the 19th when you'll be able to play Half Life 2.
My other first post is car post.
Why not? My first Windows PC was a laptop, and I've played through Half-Life, Opposing Force and several mods on it many times over the years. Modern ones have 3D cards now.
And there is a VERY good reason for NOT wanting to rely on the CD. It's a massive battery drain, so when I'm fragging on a transatlantic flight, I want it to last as long as the juice holds out.
I believe Valve had the idea for steam but didn't quite think it would be feasible to release exclusively on steam. Vivendi was not going to pass on signing the distro rights for something as popular as HL2 even if that ment allowing for a clause to let Valve distribute it via steam as a secondary.
Now, I haven't read the contract so I can't really comment on how much steam was taken into account but I'm betting it wasn't a big issue at the time. Does anyone know if discussion of preloading via steam or forcing the user to authenticate even single player mode via steam was in the contract? The game could go gold and and steam could sell millions of copies a week before it hits the shelves. Who's going to wait for a retail copy when they could get it so much sooner? I know I would have a hard time waiting.
Does anyone know what a standard deal is for these distro contracts? Is it pretty much we get exclusive rights to it? Did Vivendi overlook steam as a nice idea but one that just wasn't going to work or did Valve basically break it's contract?
If we look a some of valve's past practices we see both good and bad.. Good being it's huge support for the mod community and bad being it's lieing about release date.
Now one could argue that maybe valve was presured by ATI and the bundling of it's coupon to get the game out the door while the hardware was still top of the line hardware and they just got in too deep but they did lie. Anyone who saw the Anon releases knows it was far from complete.
As for myself, I will most likely purchase a retail copy of the game simply because at the same price I'd like to have a box, manual and pressed disc. Also steam being such a hot issue I really don't want my credit card number sitting in it's DB because of all the hatred for valve right now it's a prime target for hackers.
I don't have problem with the concept of steam, validating a CDkey every time you play online or even a initial validation upon install. However I fail to see the need for the initial install validation. It doesn't really seem to help in any way. I mean I assume it's to prevent piracy but a simple crack which WILL be out a day or two after the release will get around this.
The only logical reason I can find for such a method is maybe to keep the crack away for a few days and force would be pirates to buy the game out of desperation of waiting for a working crack. Piracy is a goofy game, the more creative you get in order to protect your ass the more creative the guy gets to break it.
It's exactly how Windows's activation works. It needs activating at the start, but it doesn't need to call home every startup there after.
Look up this sort of thing before you go and flame Valve. And why is it Valve's fault that the store sold you the game before they should have?
For most users who aren't super-careful with their discs, the odds of losing or damaging a CD over a few years are greater than the odds of Valve going under.
I don't think the odds of most poeple losing or damaging their discs are greater than 99%. That's where I'd estimate the odds of Valve going under in the next few years. This is a direct attack on their customer base and they don't have a monopoly on games like MS did on the OS; this will hurt their sales a lot.
Why would you think they'll have a no-actication patch? What's in it for them? When do companies disable CD checks on older products? I've never heard a company doing that.
I'm not offended that I need to activate a game, I'm disgusted by it. How is this a benefit to consumers while MS doing the same thing is not? Just because you're already used to them pulling crap?.
If I buy software it better have guarantees that I can install it on as many machines as I want for as far into the future as I want.
We will not see online games require activation in the future because (a) it's too easy to crack. There's cracks for every product activation piece of software ever made including windows, and (b) it is too damaging to the product for users to accept, so it will reduce the number of paying customers.
From that developer's point of view, what good is it to cut down piracy 90% if it also cuts down sales 20%? Here's a great way to cut piracy 100%; don't create the game and nobody will pirate it. IMO product activation is a very tiny step beyond the product not existing at all.
I spent quite a bit on games, and no product activation software will ever get a cent of my money. I'm hardly the only one who feels that way.
I wasn't aware that that was very common for anything larger than small applications.
My other first post is car post.
Maybe it's because of an extra battery in the drive bay? ;)