Slashdot Mirror
Driving Away Teens With High Frequency Noise
ars writes "The New York Times is reporting on a device called the Mosquito invented by Howard Stapleton designed to drive teens away by emitting a high frequency noise at 75db. Apparently most older people can not hear the sounds, but teens can not stand it. Reports are that it works quite well, but some older people can hear it too. He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children."
Everyone driven away?
-={ Security does not exist - give up }=-
sitting on the porch yelling and shaking a cane?
It's called 60's music.
Isn't this just going to make the kids as deaf as the adults?
-={ Security does not exist - give up }=-
Yet another way for parents to avoid spending time with their kids. Seriously why the heck would anyone come up with this sort of thing? As someone who works with teenagers a lot already, I have to say I'm a bit annoyed. Tons of the kids I work with through our church have parents who I swear can't be bothered to give their kids the nurture and self respect they need. Instead they just buy them things. At least an iPod nano to an unloved kid makes the kid cool at school. This'll just drive them to try more medications designed for chemical imbalances that won't fix depression brought on by these sorts of situations.
We sell skateboards and paintball shit. We aren't in the mall.
1. Hide a few dozen of these in the mall shops
2. ???
3. Profit!!!
This noise must be in the same range that TVs make when turned on. But I'll be 20 in a few months, does that mean I won't hear it anymore?
The New York Times is reporting on a device called the Mosquito invented by Howard Stapleton designed to drive teens away by emitting a high frequency noise at 75db.
So... He invented Jazz music.
Teens have rights too, you can't discriminate on the basis of age.
We used to rebel in the 5th grade by blowing air through the small holes in our proctractors. Teacher nearing retirement had no clue. Sometimes the din was so loud that we couldn't hear teacher clearly...
In another article this would be called a "nonlethal weapon". Do we really want a world where people deploy such things to drive select non customers away? Legal or not I find the idea of such a system being used not only insulting but sad.
I actually have tried high-frequncy sound "bombs" for insect and rodent control before. Ramsey Electronics sells a kit that does similarly (and it's better-buiult than my old hacks).
Various waveforms at frequencies from 19 kHz to 26 kHz were tried, along with changing waveforms and amplitudes, plus some minor modulation. I used both conventional drivers as well as piezo units. Only limited results were had.
One thing that DID work (well, sort of) was a flyback transformer from a defunct Sony TV set. That annoyed women, but not men. Weird.
Maybe I was doing something wrong, but, I doubt it. I just think the whole 'dog whistle' idea is overblown as to utility, and it's not like I wasn't trying.
Why doesn't he just turn Tony Blair up full blast? That would also work for anyone under 30.
"I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
I don't see how a product like this could ever be sold legally. Talk about discriminatory!
Download free e-books, lectures, and tutorials at bookgoldmine.com
Because today's teenagers hate 60's music.
+++ATH0
Now thats what you call an original Idea. Maybe the police start using it a usual teen street fight hangouts. But It reminds of that Arthur C clarke novel where they invented a device which would disable all guns within the effective radius. Soon that device is used to kill people based on their DNA. What happens if somebody uses a 10 time more powerful device at a teen concert. No doubt the band music would be loud, but having such a device would cause a literal eardrum carnage.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
The teen population today is growing up with the voices of "pop music". If they can survive that drivel and keep it on the Top 20, what chances does this gadget have?
What's the buzz?
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Treat teens with about the same respect you reserve for a mosquito and wonder why they go around shooting each other, or killing themselves. Oh yeah it's the violence in video games and the availability of porn on the internet that causes this. Nothing to do with the increasing contempt modern society shows for both the very young and the very old.
Idiot.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
"military's intent to use every possible thought-influencing technology. This technology is largely classified but there are leaks, like this article. We involuntary test subjects can tell you from first hand experience that far more invasive devices now exist." Welcome to ... Silent Sound...
MoFscker
Teens are used to teachers. When used in terms of climate, this is called "acclimati[z|s]ation".
1.21 gigahertz!
Too bad ScuttleMonkey and arse (oops, ars) couldn't find the time to proofread their emission (oops, submission).
when I was a kid we had a similar device up at the farm that apparently kept raccoons and squirrels away, my grandparents were avid birdwatchers. I cant vouch for it actually working to that effect.
None the less, the noise was not noticeable to the older people but annoyed the hell out of me and the other children, it's kinda like leaving a tv on mute in a really quite room, but way more intense.
I could see the truth if I was blind.
HELLO WORLD
16491 16491
HELLO WORLD
45500 45500 58736 58736 83113 83113 63228 63228 24143 24143
63684 63684 33322 33322 98341 98341 28562 28562 23658 23658
38667 38667 82268 82268 40076 40076 20675 20675 19709 19709
21489 21489 61784 61784 70268 70268 15745 15745 41487 41487
20535 20535 67031 67031 06108 06108 66637 66637 11827 11827
05729 05729 06724 06724 78581 78581 61855 61855 22558 22558
33079 33079 80157 80157 34840 34840 77058 77058 51843 51843
69724 69724
K-BYE
Every once in a while you run across a Slashdot story that just makes you wonder WTF?!?! This, ladies (?) and gentleman, is one of those stories.
#include ".signature"
This is EXACTLY what I pulled in my undergraduate 'Modern Electronics' class. When we used small speakers I could adjust the frequency to a positively epilepsy inducing sound (especially if you ran the speakers on square wave functions with slight frequency scanning) that caused most of my classmates considerable discomfort but my professor (a fan of loud and live rock shows) could hear nothing. The best part is that he was proud that he was "immune" even though it indicates the beginnings of hearing loss.
In chapter 3 of his story "Themepunks."
Link to chapter 3 of themepunks on Salon.com
Unfortunately, you have to watch ads to read salon.
By the way, a great role model for fathers everywhere:
"Okay honey, how much does this hurt?"
BZZZZT!!!!
"Ah, turn it off, turn it off!!"
"In a second honey. Daddy has to hurt you to show how much he loves you. Now, how about this?"
BZZZZT!!!
"AHHHHHH!"
"By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." - George Carlin
Grating's in front keep out the old people?
people old enough may recall the unfortunate IBM dumb-terminals that had a 15Khz flyback transformer. The over-30 crowd could no hear it, but I couldn't stand to be in the same room with one. Some early color TVs were the same way.
But of course you could do this with your laptop. Might be handy at airports to keep those unwashed roaming children from sliming your precious personal space. Or for torturing the whiney brat kicking your chair in the next row of the air plane.
Hey maybe you could use this during exams in class set it at a sub audible level and sub consciously increase everyones anxiety level three notches. Supposedly church pipe organs have some stops to produce the same effect in the worshippers. Be sure to wear your noise canceling head phones tuned to that frequency.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Whats next? Electric child prods? Shock collars?
This will have no effect on the metal heads and punk fans who go to loud shows who also happen to be the people buying it want to drive away anyways.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
There are a lot of radio stations that could have the exact same effect: oldies, big band, country... :-)
I read
This reminds me of a guy I knew once who kept an opera CD in his far-too-tricked-out-for-an-old-man car stereo. Only he optimized his stereo for treble rather than bass.
Everytime a low-rider came next to his car at a stop light thumping away, he opened his windows and cranked some good ol' Italian opera out to screw with them. He told me he never could quite drown them out, but quite a few did turn down their stereos to try and figure out what the crazy old man next to them was doing...
A good idea is to RTFA before you post (although I should know better then to tell someone to RTFA on slashdot). Give it a try sometime.
This is a morally repugnant and disgusting device. Think of the implications of this device: an entire age group of people, both good and bad, ambitious and aimless, hardworking and lazy, are, irrespective of who they are, and entirely based on their age, are being treated like animals or pests to be driven away. Not to mention it apparently doesn't work very well according to the summary. I can only wonder if technology had advanced in our society a little faster than our morality did if hucksters would have been marketing "Negro Repellent Devices" to the discriminating and gullible bastards of an earlier era. Shameful.
Why is this country so anti-teenager? We got the "coveted marketing demographics" of late teen to young adult that the tv networks and pretty much a lot of companies go for. Yet as a group, teenagers sure are very ostracized, looked down, and picked on. I'm sure there are some bad seeds but for the vast majority, I'm sure there are good kids. You got all these anti-cruising laws, school crackdowns, and now this. Shouldn't we be cherishing and nuturing them instead? I'm sure the Army would like to use this device to get them shepherded to the nearest recuriting office.
In Toronto, we used to have a problem with teen gangs hanging around the Kennedy subway station. The solution to this? The TTC started playing classical music over the loudspeakers. Pow, the gangs were gone, plus it was actually quite nice for those of us that enjoy classical music.
The only thing to watch out for now would be gangs that listen to classical music. Care for a bit of Ludwig Van?
Your talking about eardrum carnage, at a teen concert?
Why would they bother using a device, just use the concerts sound system to carry the sound. The device itself isn't anything special.
My parents have a noise emitting device under their deck to keep away skunks and possums. It also keeps me away, because I can hear the very high pitched whine and they can't.
I'm 30 years old, so hardly a teenager. Maybe I just have good hearing?
Just shoplift some earplugs.
Seriously, this shopkeeper exhibits a view of people that would make me very hesitant to be a customer at his store. He is saying, effectively, that "My interest in you is in your money and nothing else. If you spend money, I love you. If not, you're a creep and should not be in my sight." And, really, that is not the kind of person I'd like to be in any kind of relationship with, be it business of personal.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Why not just build a device that says "Hey you kids, get the hell off of my lawn!"
Vote for Pedro
Thank you, thank you, Mr. Stapleton! Now these damn kids will finally get off my lawn! And I can at last get even with these young idiots playing rap music at a windows-rattling volume.
Forget mad science, Stapleton perfected crusty science!
I have a new hero.
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
By the way, this is not "discriminating" at all. Also, I can not see how this breaks any laws. What sort of crazy law would it be? "Everyone must be able to hear every sound that someone decides to broadcast" ? Some adults can hear the sound, some teens cannot. What is the issue?
If I could rearrange the keyboard, I'd put U and I together.
Now, you'd think I'd identified all the ways this was wrong. But no, the corker is he used his own kids as lab rats for this! Why does this sick bastard still have custody of them?
Decibel is a logarithmic measure of intensity. That is to say, the difference between 75 and 85 dB is a factor of 10. Since most rock concerts play at around 125 dB, I don't know if anyone would notice.
I think this is a terrible idea for any number of reasons, one being that supposedly "inaudible" noises effect people subconsciously. Even if the people involved don't report hearing anything.
h tm
Relevant link with EEG results-
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.
This would be a great way to cheat in a college exam, 1 beep for a two for b and so on or morse code that only the students could hear! Try bellcurving that!!!
Severe to profound losses range from PTAs of 75 dB and greater. At this level, hearing aids provide limited benefit and consideration of cochlear implants is generally given. Statistics about Hearing Disorders, Ear Infections, and Deafness
MoFscker
With some of that pseudo punk that's all the rage on MTV and perhaps some pleasing purple neon undercarriage and krunk dubs and then zap them with an electric grid.
75db may make em go away, but 33hz brings the ladies back. Even more links here.
When I was a kid I built a variable frequency tone generator. Once I got it up above the range I could hear, I could make my dog go batshit. Not as in running around yelping, but scratching and chewing himself with a passion. Turns out it was the fleas that were going batshit; against his white fur, I could clearly see them start jumping incessanctly when I hit that certain range.
So maybe his kids are just nasty.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
near a big bus stop area, next to a mall, where lots of homeless and/or punk kids like to congregate and piss/shit/sell drugs/panhandle, the stores play classical music on their storefront.
It didnt actually work, until some geniuses tried to break the speakers, somewhat unsuccessfully, resulting in classical music heavily distorted by feedback noise, which then really drove away pretty much everyone within hearshot.
Couldn't have been good for business.
Last time I was around the area, they fixed the speakers, and now the classical music plays normally, and the punks are back
I remember walking around the house while my mom was in the living room. I walked into the living room and heared a constant and really high pitch noise. It was loud enough that it was almost hurt my ears. So I asked my mom what it is and she said "what? I can't hear anything." So I looked around the house and tracked it down a gym bag that was in the kitchen. I picked it up and brought it to her so she could hear it, being right next to it really did hurt my ears. So she puts it right next to ear and just shrugs. We open the bag to find a camera with a charged flash.
I thought it was funny because the volume was really loud but because of the frequency she couldn't hear it at all.
If only we could come up with a noise frequency to ATTRACT the elderly. Then we could lead a merry dance of baby boomers straight off a cliff into the ocean and watch them all drown :)
This is ridiculus. They talk about using something like this to drive away 'bad teens' who hang around their store. Did they ever stop to consider that not all teens are bad, and what if some young person is actually going to their store to buy something legitimately. They need to stop stereotyping and realize most teens arent like that. I'm 17 and I do nothing of the sort. They are not only driving away these occassional trouble makers but also some of their own customers...
Revenge is a dish best served at high frequencies.
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of my employer, my spouse, my children, or my cats.
>> "What would the robut do? Frame someone!"
At least, it seems like it to me.
;)
Back in the days of dos, pascal and c programming in a text based ide, I used to run high pitched noises out through the pc speaker. I believe I specified something between 21,000 and 24,000 hz - although I'm fairly sure that the speaker wasn't exactly tuned (although it did go a bit higher (27,000-ish hz), although only a few of us were able to hear it - we had the computer randomly play these high pitched tones and the monitor would change color about 5 seconds after the tone started, so it was sort of a double blind test)
Yeah, high school was tons of fun.
Anyways... Even though the old folks might not be able to hear it consciously, it still affects them. People become moody, short tempered, and in general, quite bitchy. I honestly can't say that it is due to the effects of the sound - or the effects of interacting with people who are able to consciously hear it, but - to me, at least - it doesn't really matter, because chances are that if you have teens hanging around your business, they probably spend money there and you're going to have to interact with them.
And as for whether this bothers teens immensely, I call bullshit. Most of the older TVs out there put out a high pitched noise and it isn't like teens don't spend a ton of time sitting in front of one. Of course, old people enjoy buying crap like this, so it isn't to say there isn't a market.
Also, the sensitivity seems to go away after being exposed to the sounds of gunfire (anecdotal evidence based on my experiences, so take with a grain of salt) and other loud noises, so gangbangers and punkheads probably won't be affected
And please, 75db? feh.
(feel free to use this as a perfect example of how to not write an argumentative essay btw)
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Can they get something like this in MMOGs?
Over here, there's this weird, loud, high pitch sound that's always emanating from this one house.
The sound drives me nuts when ever I'm running/jogging through the area and pass by the place, and I've always wondered how people could actually live there with such a constant noise nuisance....I guess now I at least know it might be because the residents are too old to hear it.
I walk into any room, and I can hear all of the computer monitors with ease. Even a lot of LCD's give off high pitched noises. Even some computers themselves, and occasionally lightbulbs. It drives me crazy. I'm not a teen.
...that we can't use it on Slashdot. This place needs a good cleaning.
*checks date* Not April first... WTF?!?
This sig is false.
Come on... this is age discrimination! The ACLU needs to demand that this weapon drive away people of all ages. Equale rights for everyone!
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
He is considering introducing a much louder unit that can be switched on in emergencies with a panic button. It would be most useful when youths swarm into stores and begin stealing en masse, a phenomenon known in Britain as steaming. The idea would be to blast them with such an unacceptably loud, high noise
Why doesn't he just wave a gun around or hire someone to break some legs?
--a noise inaudible to older shoppers--that they would immediately leave
Wouldn't it be funny if the panic button broke all the windows in the store?
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
designed to drive teens away by emitting a high frequency noise at 75db probably sounds like the popular altrnative music im guessing, them and their trance and their techno, and their radiohead.... you call that noise? just sounds like music to me!
I have a new hero.
I sure remember avoiding the jewelry section of major department stores when I was a child due to the whining sound of the alarm system. Is this just being re-discovered?
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Why is it okay to make a devices that singles out young people but not okay to make single out old people. Not to mention that it is a pretty crude device that is actively generating noise pollution.
I wonder how a low frequency sound device, for the purposes of keeping old people from loitering on my storefront, would fly? Old people mind sounds loud enough to physically agitate them far more than young people, so you would have a crude analogy to this device, except it discriminates in reverse. The sound would be similar to playing drums really loud, except only sub-acoustical frequencies are used.
But what's wrong with country?
Because the teenagers will just respond by turning up their System of a Down or Linkin' Park to drive away the old people.
Or, heaven forbid, something hip hop.
The French could really have used this technology a few weeks ago. It would have saved them thousands of cars going up in flames.
Muahaha...MUAHAHAHAHahhahaahahaa
Life is not for the lazy.
So I can drive them away with an Ashlee Simpson CD?
...are the ones who are doing the loitering, bothering customers, etc., as explained in the article. It's an "anti-loitering" device, not anti-teenager -- it's just that teenagers have more time to hang out and make a nuisance of themselves.
Teenagers don't want to be cherished and nurtured -- they want freedom without responsibility. (Generalization, not applicable for every teenager.)
Dont they already use bright lights and classical music to stop teens loitering in malls and parks?
serenity now!
I see real promise in this technology - Require all Registered Sex Offenders to install the system in their homes...
Oh, Almost forgot. And vans...
Get your Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool Here for FREE! - http://fedora.redhat.com
Although I don't entirely like the concept of age discimination, such a product might be useful in at least covering the legal asses of adult entertainment companies.
Want to ensure that kids won't sneak into your XXX store/website/movie theater? Set up something like this and you'll have one more thing to bring up in court when the kids inevitably -do- get in and you get called on it.
I think management may have brought the new cubicle slave in my department cpu fan from the same place. They arn't getting rid of me that easily though, got some $1 airplugs at lunch time.
There is nothing wrong with teens and children, even if they make noise. It is just natural for children to make noise. But I think this is a wonderful idea to hit those idiots who drive with the extra-large subwoofers through our neighborhoods and terrorize everybody, even at night.
I'm a teenager and I find this product HIGHLY offensive!
Simpsons reference, for the uninitiated.
Opera or Classical music? It probably works just as well or probably even better than a single frequency. Being "not cool" works better than being annoying. Someone has to invent a newfangled device that has to annoy _everyone_ including old farts like me who still has his hearing?
Fer crissakes, I can hear a flyback transformer whine. Now I have to listen to more noise pollution?
"You kids! Next time you cut through my yard, go 'round!"
--
BMO - Throw me up the stairs, my shoes.
if only the young can hear it, why do I think mothers with young children and babies will get peeved because it will wake up sleeping kids or provoke tantrums?
"Teens listening to loud music can damage hearing. Make sure they don't listen to loud music!"
Oh yeah, but this other device doesn't damage their hearing because.....ummm...... we say so.
Interesting, adults spend millions of dollars on research for studies that tell them that teens shouldn't listen to loud music.
Yet, They're willing to throw all the data completely out the window when it doesn't work in the favor of the adults.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
I frequently whip out my tone generator in class and put it at high frequencies very loud. Gets hilarious when half the class is yelling about a noise and the teacher thinks they're crazy.
On another note, would those neat Bose active noise cancelling headphones remedy this problem? I know it's rather easy to build active noise cancelling headphones, and if this happened anywhere in my town I would make pairs of these for everyone just to spite them.
Also, I tend to have worse hearing than most of my peers due to the fact that I play drums rather extensivly. Would this stop me from hearing the sound?
-Glitch "We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." - Linus Torvalds
You know, I just though of something. If adults are going to use these devices on teenagers. They they shouldn't be allowed to complain about insanely profane, loud, annoying, music being blasted from stereos.
Teenagers, you find one of these devices being used, go get a portable stereo, come back to where said device is being used, pop in an AC/DC disc, turn to full volume and air guitar for a few hours.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Try and substitute each of the following words in the headline and article text in place of the word "teenager". Some additional creative liberty may be needed to make it fit, but the idea should be the same. Of each of these words, which outcomes are acceptable to you?
- Female (or Male)
- Black (or White, or...)
- Homosexual
- Poor
I was a teenager once (okay, quite some time ago!), as were many of you. I hated how I was treated then, both by my "peers" and the "responsible adults". True, there are bad apples, but that's the case at every age (think some CEOs, lawyers, politicos).
Why is it acceptable to give teenagers a hard time, because of a few bad apples?
This device is the famous Pocket Pain Field Generator. You used to be able to buy the schematics from Information Unlimited, which was a mail-order shop for very interesting gadgets like tesla coils and lasers.
:)
I built one of these babies in the late 80's and raised holy kane in high school because none of the teachers could hear the device. Another property of these devices is that the sound seems to be coming from all directions. It's virtually impossible to determine the source - like say if somebody were to place the device in a library somewhere
I grew up to become a electrical engineer, btw
X
This just looks like an ultrasonic animal repeller to me. Here's an easy Google Search that shows how common they are. The thing is, anyone with decent hearing will hear these ultrasonic devices too -- and yes, they are extremeley irritating, to the point of being painful. My parents live way out in the country and use one to keep deer away from their garden, and another one to keep their neighbor's cats away from their parked cars. Having to suffer around 2 of those things any time I visit my folks, I can easily recognize the high-pitched agony-inducing devices now.
... it actually makes me feel slightly nauseous if I hang around in that entrance area too long.
And as a result, I suspect there is a powerful one in use at the Huntington metro station. It's cranked way up, frankly to the point that I worry about hearing damage when I walk through the protected area. I can hear the sound just inside the entrance, aimed right at the turnstyles (slightly stronger at the side near the fare card machines). In this case, I imagine they're using it to keep birds and squirrels out of the station. The station itself is in a surprisingly wooded area, nestled into the side of a small hill. I'm sure they found an ultrasonic animal repeller was the only thing that worked at keeping critters out of the station. It nearly keeps me out too
Whoever designed level 61 in Frozen Bubble is a sadistic bastard.
It's easy enough for me to create a home made high pitched squeal. Just take the phone away from my teenage daughter. From what I have been able to ascertain, the telephone is permanently attached to her ear. Taking it away causes her physical pain which results in her emitting an extremely loud high pitched squeal.
I try not to do that anymore because the neighbors complain.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Looks like you can forget about walking your dog past the 7-11. It would be even worse for a blind man and his guide dog. I don't think the squirrels or birds will be too happy either.
I belong to a club that's made up of mostly seniors, so I'm one of just a few people there under 40. A few years ago (I was 25 or 26 then) I was playing with one of our long-time members when I began hearing this really high-pitched whining noise, right on the high edge of my auditory range. Wasn't super loud, but definitely loud enough to notice if you could indeed hear it. After determining to my satisfaction that I wasn't crazy, I deduced the noise was coming from some definite source. I asked my opponent if she could hear it, and she said no but wondered if it was her hearing aid. She turned it down and sure enough, the noise went away! Apparently I was the only one who could hear it.
Two more occasions I heard the noise and immediately asked her to turn it down and it went away, so that pretty much confirmed the first time wasn't a fluke. I dunno exactly what was happening, but I figure the hearing aid was generating feedback when turned up too loud. After all they are just compact microphones and speakers.
I tell you, when I heard this noise and I couldn't figure out what it was, I started to get really agitated. The agitation was to the point that where if someone heard it for a sustained long time they could seriously go insane or even try to kill themselves. It was bad. The sense of relief I felt when the noise was turned off was quite profound.
So anyhow, I didn't RTFA but if they're talking about using this device on a long-term basis to keep teens away from somewhere, this is tantamount to torture. I think anybody considering using this for anything other than security in imminent danger (e.g. teens harassing you) deserves to lose the rest of their hearing too.
Today: Miracle Hypersonic siren drives away teens and children. Tomorrow: Modern teens going deaf.
Today: Miracle Hypersonic siren drives away teens and children. Tomorrow: Modern teens going deaf, lets blame iPods.
someone put these things all around Michael Jackson's house.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
... to irritate Prefects. Now you kids get off'n my lawn or I'll call the Prefect of Police!
Thieves
When earplugs are outlawed
Required reading for internet skeptics
Some good classical music with maybe a little John Tesh thrown in for good measure. Just don't make me haul out the "big guns" and start playing some Celine Dion!
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
1. Loud screeching sounds are known to improve teachers' authority.
2. Most kids deserve it, one way or another.
3. And we could reward the good kids - by turning the device off (briefly).
4. Inventing new and terrifying ways of turning food into slop would become obsolete.
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
I want to know the frequency, so I can try this!
-Palal
The question was: Will a 75dB sound cause hearing damage?
What you pasted says: If you cannot hear sounds below 75dB, then you are deaf.
But it's got fancy scientifical words like "cochlear" so I guess that means it's important, am I rite?
How ironic. Older people discovering (?) that high pitched sounds annoy teenagers. Teenagers use low pitched sounds (boom cars playing overamped bass-heavy music) to annoy old people. So who speaks for the mid-range?
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Det. Bunk
This is the dumbest idea I ever heard. I am a teen, and I suppose I can appreciate the need to get rid of the bad ones in the world. But, making an annoying sound..thats just plain rude.
I know even myself, I am very annoyed be high pitched sounds, even more so than my friends. I can hear things that are way out there. This would be an extremely annoying piece of work for me.
If I ever saw a shop that had one of these I would definitally complain to the manager/owner and not shop there again.. that is, if I didnt rip the thing off the wall beforehand.
Whoever invented this device obviously has no respect for the younger folk of the world good/bad, and perhaps has something against his kids.
by experimenting on his children
I didn't considered *that* when I decided I shall have no children...
There you are, staring at me again.
Yes - I know EXACTLY what you mean.
;-)
There have been times when I will walk into a room where the TV is supposedly off, just a blacks creen (no LED indicators on the front) and I will mention that the TV is on, walk up to it, and turn it off. The other people in the room will be like "how did you know that"
This really suprises me because I am an audio engineer and I OFTEN times listen to music at 110+ dB A SPL. I would've thought my hearing would have been shot by my ripe old age of 23
Libertas in infinitum
Isn't there anything original to post these days?
Skip ------ See the latest from http://www.anArchyFortWorth.com
Teens can easily defeat the "Mosquito" by just crankin' up their iPod ...
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Ok, I am a teen, 18 to be exact, and I have relatively unabused ears for now. I've noticed every once in a while a high pitched noice comming from CRT screens, both my monitor and tv screens do it. Basicly, I hear the noise, 'feel' it a little in the back of my throat, and have the urge to go into a murderous rampage and/or vomiting spell whenever I hear it. I can honestly see this noise (if its the same one) being a quite effective mode of crowd control, or perhaps a new path to superhero-dom? I think there was a (new) Twilight Zone episode about this, alien signal saved the world and such. Anyhoo, happy hacking.
-- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
The funny part is that can't legally consume alcoholic beverage.
If this became wide spread then it wouldn't be hard to guess how teenagers would respond... louder and louder car stereos, which would result in more of these devices being use and so on and so forth. So there goes any sembalance of peace and quite in populated areas. Seriously though, if some business that I had to walk by implemented this I would go rather far out of my way just to avoid it. Turning on old TVs is bad enough, but a continuous, loud, high pitched, intentionally annoying sound? Since I'm probably not alone in that regard I can only imagine the impact on the surrounding businesses. No more cheap teenage labor, and no more customers under thirty. If I had no choice but to walk by these devices then I'd probably result to vandalism.
...happens to be the vocal range of Celene Dion.
Laugh people - its funny.
You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
But seriously, this reminds me of another news items several years ago, I think. Someone came up with a streetlight whose color accentuated skin flaws like acne and generally made skin (probably light-colored skin, but perhaps all shades) extremely unattractive. The idea was that it would discourage teenage loitering, since they're so image-conscious.
The police can't do anything much more than shoo the offending youth away
I'm telling you, police need cattle prods (or maybe, them newfangled tasers) exactly for this reason.
Maybe when all the asshats smell like jerky, the rest of us teens will be left alone.
DATABASE WOW WOW
...we didn't have all this hippin' and the hoppin' and eXtreme sports and we didn't smugly hold products at arms length toward cameras while listening to our eye-pods.
But seriously, the lack of youth crime tells me not that things are peachy, but that 25 years of conformist oppression has created a generation of vapid drones. I want youth rebelling, it means they give a damn. Gen X was cynical and nominally apathetic, but Gen Y is just pathetic. They don't even realize how fucked up this country has become, because it has always been this way to them. When they eventually vote (probably around their late 20s), woe betide us. I mean, moreso. Geez, I really need to emigrate.
when someone invents a gadget to atract teens, preferably girls ;)
Oh, wait, you're right. I guess I should stop the cheap p0rn movies
You know what else teens hate? If you spread a thick layer of fresh pig manure all over the parking lot of your establishment. You see, their noses respond to the smell. Can't stand it. You know for sure that Satan laughed the day that leaf-blowers were invented. This, while evil, probably only gave him a slight chuckle.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
Well, if you're just trying to keep away younger audiences from your venue, then one could assume that you're trying to attract the older audiences. In this case, such things as old German oompah music would do quite a good job of attracting older customers and sending the young packing.
What, you thought only the younger generation's music was annoying to the older?
And mod grandparent down.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
they have sex, they rebel, and they think and talk all the time! Dag nab teenagers...
Boycott Sony
Where is a sample? I wanna hear it!
Funniest thing I ever did was steal every telephone (minus no more than 10) on the second floor of my middle school on April Fools Day. The phones snapped into a bracket on the wall, so just unplug the cord and pull them out, and POW! you're in business. Sad thing, I walked around with them for two classes until someone asked me what the heck I was doing.
Hey, what are you doing?
Oh, nothing much. You?
Looks around Where's my telephone?
Gestures at stack of telephones Second one from the bottom.
Why did you take all the phones?
Why didn't you take the phones? I shouldn't be the one who has to.
...and all I had to do was put them back! Which took the rest of the hour.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Call it anti-boorishness, anti-hypocrisy, anti-jerk. But until kids get sneered at for saying "Yes, sir" and helping old ladies across the street, don't call this country anti-teenager.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
... use 808 kick drum sounds (low hiphop bass) to drive old folks away.
I remember my mother not liking the name of a band. My stepfather said, "you're not supposed to, you're a mom" and then she understood (and approved: that's showbusiness)
Reading slashdot you'd almost think there was a generation gap coming. Just wait'll we start drafting them.
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
Just wait untill they start modding them to emit sound so that the store clerks and older customers go away.
That, or maybe the next trend will be earmuffs. Or lawsuits over injured hearing, and how it emotionally scared (more than regualr) 'my sweet little boy!'.
Reports are that it works quite well, but some older people can hear it too. He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children.
Wait, so you're saying most adults can't hear Fran Drescher?
I heard something fitting this description in a tokyo mall not to long ago, it was annoying as hell, and it did make we want to leave. I it would be useful if you where to turn it on, when their is a problem,and have security manage it.
The David Jones store in Perth City has an annoying high-pitched sound near their main doors. Most people don't seem to notice. I thought it might be an insect repellent, but this idea sounds very likely. Certainly drives me away from the store, pity for them I'm 30-something.
Not that we abused this or anything...
...of the Bush administration's new arsenal of "non-lethal" weapons.
I'm actually a balding ol' fart but I loathe the very thought of ever fuckin' mellowing out.
I'm angrier now than I ever was but its a cold and calculating anger. Its the steely edge of the knife.
I have outgrown the fugues and tirades of youth, when I'd wax elequent with rage and make the most grandeloquent speeches any man could ever regret, if he could regret anything, but I don't.
John Tesh can swallow and kiss my lil' pink ass after I take a dump right in his fuckin' gob.
Me mellow?
Like A-fuckin'-lexis Sayles...
I'm driven and driven to drink by "mellow people." I'm a man with a mission, touched with a little madness, or is it genius that pushes, prods and make me reach beyond myself?
I HATE having become a cripple. Fuck.
I used to be a dancer.
I used to be a musician.
I used to be the guy a mother warned her daughter about.
I used to be the guy a daughter didn't tell her mother about.
And I HATE fuckin' growing old.
So I'M NOT FUCKIN' DOING IT.
(A little catharsis is good every now and then.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
How the hell does this make economical sense. Apart from the fact that you're driving away the teenagers who might actually spend money at the store, along with any adults (like me) who can hear these sorts of high frequency noises, which pretty much eliminates most people under 25, but you're driving away any parents (and believe it or not a lot of people have children now-a-days!) whose children can't stand to go inside, which cuts down most of the 25-50 year old bracket. Are they only going to sell to people over 50 or something? Why don't they just require that a pensioners card be shown before allowing entry on the premesis?
I can attest to high frequency noises -- there was a projector in our distance learning class for calculus that put off this loud, EXTEMELY high-pitched noise. It is one of the reasons I ended up dropping the class.
The professor couldn't hear it, and myself being one of the younger students, heard it much better than the older ones. I wished I had realised the usefulness of driving teens crazy and making the connection to the loitering problem.
Who thinks that experimenting on one's children is pretty fucked-up?
This sound appears all the time on eMpTyV2 when they announce concerts. I seem to find more concerts in a copy of the St. Louis Riverfront Times in these places called "local venues". Secondly, what's to keep the establishment from using it as a disciplinary weapon in schools? It's bad enough we have tasers. (Help you that you don't get tazed in the spine!)
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
about actually damaging the hearing of the people being driven away by this device. If memory serves me correctly, 75 dB is pretty darn intense sound, though it is a very high frequency. Is there no discussion of what damage it will cause to those listening. After a long time hearing this very loud, very high frequency sound, I would imagine that those subjected to it will no longer be able to hear in that range. It seems patently absurd that this can be considered moral.
Is there to be culpability for destroying the hearing of the youth? I wonder how this plays out in the courts? Is it the listeners fault for being close enough to the sound source to have their ears damaged, or is it the originators fault for intentionally creating a noise which could be potentially destructive of hearing?
To me it shoudn't matter if they don't realize it would harm hearing; ignorance is not a defense. At the very least it could be considered neglegence.
"[Physics] has nothing to do directly with defending our country, except to make it worth defending." -- Robert Wilson
The article itself quotes Dr. Andrew King...
So, essentially, all this does is make shopping at the store more annoying for everyone, especially those 20-somethings with disposable income. I think I would avoid a store that had an obnoxious high frequency pulsating sound. The store owners are trading their sales for having fewer teenagers hanging around.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is it wise to piss off a group of immature people with too much time on their hands?
I'd imagine the young people of today (say that with a heavy Yorkshire accent) have hearing too damaged from loud music to be able to hear high frequency noise - when was the last time you ever saw teenager complain about a squealing computer monitor?
Naw, if you want to drive them away, play Bobby Goldsborough songs on the PA... ("...and Honey, I miss you, and I'm being good"...AAAIIIEIIIE!!!!!)
This cracked me up for a minute or two!
"Some shops, for example, use "zit lamps," which drive teenagers away by casting a blue light onto their spotty skin, accentuating any whiteheads and other blemishes."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A cinema in my town had the same problem with large groups of teenagers loitering at the entrance. Once they started playing nice classical music (not even loudly) they all dissappeared. I guess it was no longer a "cool" place to hang out any more. I think the makers of this device should have tried their first option, at least it's less iritating to customers.
...but will the sound be reproduced properly over VOIP? It'd be great to use on a game server to get all the kiddies off. :P Too bad you can't use it on IRC...
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Here I was hoping that that they'd found a way to drive off prefects of various kinds. Not that I dislike the one we have around here, but sometimes it could be useful.
This signature is not in the public domain.
It has been discovered that a punch in the face drives away techies who have nothing better to do with their time than create technology that causes pain and controls people.
...without lots of annoying .WAV files.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
something to repel Americans and make the world a safer place!
Well an individual shop owner should certainly not have to carry a whole society's guilt.
But why is such a thing needed anyway ? if not because there is nothing else interesting to do for teenagers.
Or even worse they probably do not have the mental tools necessary to imagine something else to do.
-- waza doing, nothun chilling it out, nyou, nothun -- 20 years later encephalogram still pretty much flat --
Our society has spent so much time transforming us into consumer that if we do not have the money to consume we feel the need to be "near the consomation opportunity", we have made consomation a "spectator sport" for thouse that cannot (just like sport is a spectator sport for the 'sportively challenged'".
So the solution is PAY MORE TAXES, and use them to provide better public education, particularly for the kids that would not get "good parenting".
And create places that are "fun to hang out" for teens, with things to do (and places to be while doing nothing except maybe shmoosing).
So we alienate teens from society to the point that they have nothing better to do than loiter outside of stores. Then someone creates a device to drive the kids away from the stores. I don't understand how this is going to solve any problem without leading to the same exact problem in a different location.
The frequency of a television whine is roughly 16kHz. This pitch is not terribly annoying, unless at very high decibel levels. FWIW I am 33 and I can still hear it fine. 75dB is not going to be enough, that's about conversation level. Plenty of teens attend concerts which center around distorted instruments like the guitar, which commonly have an excess of these high harmonics, and you don't see teens fleeing these concerts.
Damaging sound is damaging sound, regardless of age, annoyance is not a compelling argument.
This dude is talking out his ass.
I can't tell you how much I hate the TV noise. I'm only 19, so it probably explains it, but I work at Best Buy and every time I have to help someone out in the CRT aisles I feel like my brain is going to explode. Hundreds of crappy TVs all tuned to the exact resonant frequency of my BRAIN, FORCING IT TO SHATTER MY SKULL... YEEAAARGHHH.
So yeah. I hate the TV noise. If rock concerts will fix it, then to rock concerts I will go.
If you can hear it, it's not ultrasonic.
I'm serious. Age doesn't matter, hearing quality doesn't matter.
TV remotes used to be ultrasonic, operating at 38KHz, 40KHz or 44KHz. No one could hear these. It's just not possible. If you can hear this thing, then it's only near-ultrasonic.
Additionally, note that ultrasonic bug repellers don't work. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/ultrarat.html Or you can check The Straight Dope.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Maybe it's because most of them are born out of wedlock today, or have inattentive or completely absent father figures due to divorce. Of course no good liberal would buy that. They've just been deprived of opportunities. Being deprived of character and mentorship, doesn't hurt anyone.
I've never seen rocksalt, but I imagine it's just outsized chunks of salt. Fired from a 12 gauge the impact must smart bad. So even if driving away teens with high frequency sounds is discriminatory and wrong, teenagers today get it served up much more humanely than our forefathers.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
A Sears store in Scottsdale Arizona back about 1972 had an unbearably loud noise that no one else noticed. It was loudest in the center of the store near the escalators. I went up to a salesman at the counter and complained about the loud noise. He said "what noise?" He refused to believe that the loud noise existed. The noise went on for about two years at that Sears store. Los Arcos mall and the Sears store no longer exist now. I never encountered anyone else who had noticed the noise. I also ran into that same very loud high-pitched noise a library somewhere. What was that noise?
We should all take better care of our hearing to avoid hearing loss. Several years ago a few friends persuaded me to go dancing at a local bar. It had unbearably loud music and I wished I had remembered to bring my ear plugs. Afterwards, it took about three weeks for my hearing to return to normal. All of us thought the music was unusually loud but I was the only one that had experienced hearing problems for several weeks afterwards.
What about loud movie theatres? Why are they frequently so loud? I usually bring ear plugs to movie theaters just in case I need them.
I was recently walking around my neighborhood with my cousin and her husband. It was during the time of the year that the cicadia insects are so loud. I commented to my cousin about the loud noise and she said that her husband could not hear the noise. He is a construction worker. Cicadias are amazingly loud and even most old people can hear.
Back in the 1970s, I worked for a few months at a styrofoam cup factory in which most of the equipment used loud compressed air. May ears would always ring for several hours afterwards. I was one of the few people in the plant who spoke English. Almost no one in the plant wore ear plugs. If I had stayed longer at that job, I wonder how much hearing loss I would have had?
Haven't these contraptions been around for years ? Our next-door neighbor has one that's supposed to drive away the cats that have been pooping on her lawn. My wife can hear it squeal, and it drives her nuts.
He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children.
Only a total sicko would do things like that.
A wide deployment of these will probably cause an unexpected rise in the amount of vandalism. I know I'd break one.
By the way, I'm 21.
Just anecdotal evidence, but...
I help run an extremely large retail store, with a customer count of between 3000 and 7000 transactions a day. It is a college town, so 'kids' are the main consumer. We do have dumb kids come in that mess with our stuff or harrass our other shoppers... about once a month. One out of approx. 150,000 shoppers is a 'bad egg' then... seems like a waste to spend money to solve this non-problem, since when you tell them to behave they usually do.
...because alot of oldsters would pay good money to install them in their basements to drive their 40 year old never-left-home kids away!
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
Maybe he got this idea while listening to a 55-cycle hum.
Isn't this a form of audio based assault? I'm serious by the way.
attach these devices to all convicted pedophiles!
...at least in the town where I live.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Obviously the guy who invented this thing is not a dog owner. If teens can hear it, then dogs, cats and birds will be affected by it as well.
...that the use of a device like this is completely subjective. As a teenager and a semi-professional musician, hearing is one of my most important assets next to sight. If I wear baggy pants and am waiting out front of a 7-11 for a friend of mine to pick me up, what right does a part-time employee (who may be even younger than me) have to "blast" this thing. How could one judge when it is okay and not okay to use this? Purely on appearances? This tool seems like it could easily be abused and misued.
That's why laws keep getting passed that restrict teenagers. How are we going to keep convincing each other that teenagers are evil if they don't commit crimes. So, we work towards creating a society that puts 18 year olds out on the street with never having held a job, no drivers license, never having had sex, and no experience with keeping things like drinking in moderation. Add on to that laws that prevent parents from teaching kids that there are reprecussions for your actions, and you just might turn this decline in youth crime around.
Just remember these are the people that will decide if the plug should be pulled. Needlessly making enemies of them is not a good idea.
currently a big electronics outlet in Germany has "greed is good" as their slogan ("Geiz ist Geil"). So Germany really is 20 years behind.
>I own a gun. If a criminal enters my house to do me harm, I will have no choice but to kill him with this gun.
As Picard said, "in a crisis it is always best to have more than one option".
You can escape from "no choice" land with several techniques that are no more expensive than a gun. Start with passive measures which, unlike a gun, work even if you're asleep. Rip out the useless piece of garbage hollow core door to your bedroom and replace it with something solid. Install a deadbolt. Absolutely, this part is not optional, install a reinforced strike plate in the door frame and secure it with wood screws long enough to reach structural framing. 3" or 4" #10 screws are good.
That door will buy you time which will be very welcome.
A dog isn't always practical but can do triple duty as alarm, deterrent, and defense system. You can't treat it as an appliance though. You're adding a family member for ten or fifteen years.
Now just what would be the legal implications of a business deliberately installing equipment certain to interfere with access by the disabled?
Yoko Ono
-- Mace only makes me hornier.
So has Dave Clarke released a new track then????
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
Just install a local cell phone cell @ $9.00/min.; it'd be a microcell, so it would effectively be premises-only; anyone loiters around and uses their cell phone, you're talking $$$. Hell, you can sit on my front porch, if you're willing to pay me $9.00/min. for the privilege... I'll even let you borrow a cane and yell "get out of my yard!" at all your friends.
I've considered suggesting this to various movie theaters as well - would you have your phone on in a movie if every time it rang or you got a text message, it cost you $9.00?
Another option is a ring generator - just make any phone that roams into the micro-cell ring periodically. Works for movie theaters (maybe ring them on the way in the door, or three times during the previews, etc.); also works for drugstores where kids with cell phones loiter, etc.: no signal = no loiter.
-- Terry
Had a substitute teacher in the 10th grade that was a complete bitch. The scoop:
I took alot of "Office" courses in high school, and (being the computer geek that I am) was the go-to guy for all of those classes. So, one day we get this sub-from-hell. No speaking during class. Noone was allowed to help anyone out. Business-as-WTF?!?!!
We didn't believe she meant it. People asked me questions, I continued to answer them. She eventually snapped at me, "Shut Up. I don't care if you have friends here. Now your only friend is your computer." So, I started having a conversation with the monitor... I told it how to enable the outline view in Word 2000, how to disable clippy... Needless to say, she didn't appreciate my humor. Before I could really piss her off, the period ended.
Later that week I'm in a similar class and she shows up again. At this point I know the score, but noone else in the class does. *Of course* they all start asking me questions. The sub prompty writes "NO TALKING" across the whiteboard. Soon after, she decides she is going to appoint a "class helper". So, she chooses someone from the room (seemingly at random; I believe she was avoiding me intentionally).
The dude she chose had no clue how to use the program. He did the logical thing, and asked me. She got pissed--I shit you not, beet-red pissed. And this is where the *real* fun began.
See, she went from being a thorn-on-my-side to a royal-pain-in-the-ass. To alleviate some of the pressure, I asked why she didn't let me help everyone out. I was obviously the most qualified person to do so. She tells me to stuff it... The class laughs... I proceed to belittle her ability to manage the class.
She asks my name, then threatens to call security. The class giggles some more.
See, the very concept of this substitute calling security to remove me from a classroom was so alien to them... I'm sure many of you know the drill. (Generally) Quiet, geeky kid, 100 lbs at most, non-violent, straight-edge. etc etc.
At this point, it has ceased to be entertaining. I walk out of the classroom, and go to the department office. I explain the situation to the Department Head. Then the Head and I walk calmly back to the classroom, where the Head asks the sub to leave the classroom.
She was fired the next day.
You can actually calculate what the audible frequency is of a TV.
For NTSC in North America:
For PAL in the UK:
And yes, the sound drives me crazy, too. I'm 30 and an audio engineer. And I'm the only one in my household who can hear the damn TVs whining. :-)
Jory
I think you could get sworn at by a whole range of generations if you went round Wales telling people they were in England, you'd certainly get some vile language thrown at you.
We are not talking about dogs or cockroaches but people, young people. Persons who can speak, feel, talk and (I hope) think. Cannot we just argue with them? People that tomorrow will be adults and rule the show, all their life have been treated like beasts.
Is this the way USA educates its people?
How does the /slashdot/ crowd manage to get so pussywhipped?
In a civilized society, it's everybody's business to educate and raise the children.
The parents have a lot of influence, and I fully agree they have the main responsibility over their children. However to lay the total burden on the parents, is simply insane. Anyone can easily come up with excuses. That's the easy cop-out, which helps nobody. How many hours are parents and children together these days?
The children will meet many people in their young years. The time spent with these people will be more than with their parents. These involve:
Relatives
Babysitters
Teachers
Peers
Trainers
Shop owners
Bus drivers
Any random person
The more people neglecting and behaving like robots, as is very common in the big cities, the more alienated teens you will get. It's very nice to behave like a human, and treat others like humans even if you're probably never going to see them again too.
Treat people (children / teens are certainly no exception!) like crap, then don't expect anything else than crap back. It has always been that you get more crap from teens than anyone else, but that's part of their nature. That's why we're the adults to see them through a difficult period and love them for who they are anyways.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
wicked get rid of the teenages from the convenience store what about the the poor teenages that work there?
I hate company allready that play the same CD over and over for 10weeks straight thats why i quit Kmart
and if they install this places like this and i happen to work there i will go postal
so big company man have kids outside store or have to pay someone older that cost more?
Looking through the responses it seems that I am the only one that find it deeply disturbing that somebody wants to 'drive away teenagers'. Teenagers are our children - I can see how they may be annoying from time to time, but they shouldn't be driven away, they should be taken care of, integrated into society. I mean, why do you think teenagers in deprived areas end up in gangs, crime and drugs? It's certainly not because their parent have too much time or other resources for them.
Disclaimer: I have a 6yo boy and my baby-girl will be born next April.
IMHO, teenagers are less well-socialized because parents don't bother to know what's happening in school, and high-school officials are very, very lazy. Good schools make well-socialized kids.
Teenagers are less acquainted with work because parents fill them with money. I was the son of a low-to-middle-class blue-collar worker (my father started his career as a dairy products manufacturing worker) and I work since I was 14. If the economics are bad, buy some scrap wood and make a boat together with your children -- they can do the heavy work while you are at the job.
So, yes, it's all the parents' fault. I intend firmly to apply everything my parents taught me and no "hanging around" for my kids, sorry. And like me, I know they will beat the crap out of anyone who think they're nerdy. But then again, I'm posting here...
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Its an amazing coincidence.. the high pitch noises irritate and drive away teens, and low frequency resonating bass noises irritate and drive away old people too ;)
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Why would they want to scare away Jay and Silend Bob?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
1. Increase the frequency to "attract" young preteens. 2. Sell it to Michael Jackson. 3. ????? 4. Profit!!
Lets get this straight, this company will sell you a product which might work, depending on the individual and you personally cant hear if its doing anything? Its an empty box. Teenagers of the world unite! lets start selling these things :)
Brain(s): 0.0% user, 1.3% system, 0.1% nice, 98.6% idle
I mean, when the sound is muted. When asking my friends (teenagers and up to 30), only very few can. I can (age 26), though I suffer from Tinnitus. At child's age I could hear when my sister secretly watched TV in the other room, doors closed, sound too silent to hear... Interestingly, I can also hear when you switch channels and what the quality of the picture is, and what kind of interferences there might be (diagonal stripes, snowy picture, ...)... btw. I don't own a TV. Not only because I find the noise annoying, but also because it's boring...
Oh yes, I remember how I used to absolutely hate that steady high-pitched noise that came from TVs. I had to put up with that when watching TV back in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. Once I got into my 40s and 50s I stopped noticing the TV noise. Did I become deaf at that frequency or do TVs no longer make that noise? When I was younger, I would complain to my parents or other people about the noise but they couldn't hear it.
Didn't any of the television manufacturers ever care? What about modern HDTVs with Digital Dolby sound? What do they sound like? Have they fixed the high-pitched noise problem yet? Now that I am in my 50s, I can't tell if TVs still produce that steady annoying high-pitched TV noise or not.
If I have it right, Old people can't hear it, and young people don't want to listen to it? Humm, What is Barry Manalow's Greatest Hits? NoMorePoints.com
I have never told anyone of this prank before now.
In 8th grade I was riding on the school bus behind our teacher who was driving. When we started up a hill I softly started tapping my feet. I changed the pace of my tapping with the speed of the bus. After about three miles he told everyone to shut up and stopped the bus in the middle of the road, it was great. Not hearing the noise anymore he slowly crept forward and on we went and if nothing happened.
120 chars of filth!
I guess that would count me in, I can hear TVs squeel (squeel tivvy squeel!!). An interesting side note: for some reason a TV sounds different depending on what's on the screen, if it's just the static fuzz then it's one tone, pure white is another, etc. Theoretically you should be able to recreate what's on the screen simply by listening to the sounds it makes... or perhaps just figure out what the mean color is (no, mean as in average, not as in nasty...).
There's one flaw in that guy's reasoning: listening to loud bass will reduce one's ears' ability to hear high pitched sounds. Yes age will do that too, but don't most teenagers that they'd want to repel listen to loud bass?
It seems these two age groups just represent people with too much time to spend and nothing anyone wants them to do.
Before I start sounding like a leftie I think that both groups a largely made up of pathetic whiners would should be taken out back by security and fed to the guard dogs.
Then again I am a nerd and have never found myself in a position where I had nothing to do. Shopping areas are to me, and every red blooded male, a place of horrors that you visit for as short a time as possible to get the bare essentials needed for survival before you go back to your hobbies.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children."
:p
I saw the same effect at a local mcDonalds a few years back in downtown Seattle. They started to play country music on the outside speakers and you wouldn't believe how fast some of the seedier teen traffic cleared out... To across the street, but hey, it worked
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Americans for a Society Free from Age Restrictions
Join us.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
The high pitched sound is impossible to track and very annoying :)
d /boxes/pandora.html
Plans to build one:
http://www.linuxsavvy.com/staff/jgotts/undergroun
I can't hear anything
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Please turn it off. Ever go to a museum with one of those alarm systems? I can't stay to look at the art for more than a few minutes because of the annoyance of these high frequency sounds. Mention it to the staff, they just don't hear it. It is obnoxious to create a nuisance and deny that it is a nuisance just because you can't sense it.
They cost a quarter and the higher the frequency the more they attenuate it, so speech (low-mid frequencies) intelligibility is not affected.
Maybe that's the reason why I seem to be the only person who can hear when a TV is on from all the way across the house (and in class – drives my teachers nuts...) I've always heard this high-pitched whining noise that just annoys me to no end, and so far it's never failed at finding the offending TV.
Oh, and the trick works for any CRT-based screen in fact, and no, it has nothing to do with if the sound's muted or not. A thousand little electron guns kind of do make a little bit of noise.
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children.
Actually, it looks like he got the idea from a fellow from a small planet in the neighborhood of Betelgeuse, and not from his children after all.
I could keep black people, hispanic people, white people, blind left-handed people, or people who voted for Bush off of my private property ...
...
By definition, if you're talking about an area where you can exclude people arbitrarily, that's also an area where you can arrest those people for trespassing. If the problem was teens coming into my *home*, I wouldn't need a mosquito box. This device has its only substantial use in places where you *cannot* call the police and forcibly remove people you don't like. In places like that, discrimination laws (often) apply.
Of course, I have no idea if age is a protected class in the first place
Lloyd: Hey, wanna hear the most annoying sound in the world?
Lloyd: aaiaiaiaghghhhghghiaaahhhiiiiiaghghghghg!!!!!
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
I've been wondering the samn damn thing for like four years, now.
This is not new. It was on the regional news a couple of months ago here in the UK. It was a constant high pitched noise and the idea is that as you get older, your hearing deteriates such that you can't hear it.
Probably goes all the way up to eleven....
Does anybody else think this sounds exactly like a Far Side concept?
(Man in labcoat stands on front porch next to a goofy-looking contraption as a couple of slackers with cigarettes run away covering their ears) Responding to the outcry of the neighborhood, Dr. Norman Finkhouser worked by night for months to perfect his invention: the Teen-B-Gone 5000.
The percentage of crimes committed by teens is going down, because thee are less teens, and more adults, now that we have finished the mini-baby boom. What one needs to do, is to look at the RATES that teens commit crimes - i.e. numer of crimes committed y teens, per 1000 teens, and this is probably strongly linked to the unemployment rate. In order to judge weather societies actions have an efect on teen behavior (one m,easurement would be crime), one needs to look at the change of RATE, , since this measures the actions of teens only. Overall percentage of crimes committed will fluctuate merely on the overall percent of teens in the popluation, which will give a false measurement.
..........FULL STOP.
My friends and I were not typical teenagers. Once, having taken a break from making a home movie to consume large capppuccinos, we decided to cruise through downtown with some German polka-sounding folk music cranked up and the windows down. We got some weird looks from the slacker kids and laughed about it for weeks.
I've read of using classical music to ward off the unwanted teen crowd at convenience stores. It seems a bit more humane and appropriately selective - in that it can serve as a cultural experience for those who don't mind it, and one might think those people would be more socially acceptable than those who loathe classical music.
I hate call waitin`~+~~~
NO CARRIER
Heh, we used to take turns going "PSST!" really loud whenever the teacher's back was turned, so it sounded like a can of Coke being opened (food and drink in the classrooms was forbidden).
:)
That used to drive them mental.
"Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
Friended you. Fellow stutterer :)
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
The Environmental Protection Act (1990), Chapter 43, section 79(1)(a), describes Statutory Nuisances as including "noise emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance". This would certainly cover the Mosquito - it's specifically designed to be, and marketed as, an annoying noise producer. The other pertinent subsections (particularly (9)) boil down to "unless we've specifically said you can do this".
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
Perhaps it is http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm you are looking for.
The frequency is classified information.
Meh.
When I was robbed, everyone told me "Get a dog". They couldn't seem to understand that I don't like dogs! For me to get a dog just for security doesn't make sense. It would suck for me, and it would suck for the dog.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Merchants who dont want teenagers, street people, and street "merchants" hanging out on their doorsteps play booming classical music in our city. It seems to be working. If everyone does it, it will probably be ignored noise.
Way to set the example for this brave new world you're advocating. Trying to live like a decent person and think about others isn't a competition, it's kind of a moral imperative. Little thing called a conscience.
I doubt the man cares whether you're insulted and/or saddened. I wouldn't.
I'm a potential customer. I can hear high-frequency sounds, and so can my two 12-year-olds. You think I'll be telling my kids to go down to this man's store? Not a chance. As a solution, this bites hard, whatever the problem it intended to solve may have been. All it did was escalate the thing it was trying to remedy, in a way that demeaned and repelled people the shop owner was supposedly trying to protect.
But maybe following that mistake would require the shop owner to put himself in his customers' shoes -- just like he plainly couldn't manage with the kids.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
The vicious little spoiled brat that my best friend somehow managed to spawn.
:(
Regards;
That would be great, except most of the precious darlings I have the pleasure of dealing with have 'Daddy' footing the bill.
:(
Regards;
And I'm offended at people that study classical piano at the convservatory, and never, EVER write a single note of their own. Done, I said it :P
Buanzo Consulting - 15 Years of GNU/Linux experience, for you.
Notice that they put in a pronunciaton guide for one man's name. Looks like this reporter is paid by the word!
Apart from that, this doesn't surprise me. I've always been able to hear a high-pitched whine given off by most electrical equipment; my parents can't hear it.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
Does nobody else recognize that this is discrimination against teenagers for no good or valid reason? They have every right to go anywhere an adult does, except maybe into a liquor store.
First time I ever did this, and it's for good reason. Can anyone spare a +1 Insightful?
Sometimes my television is left on by accident because when I turn off the video source, the screen of the TV goes black as if it's off, and the only visual indication that the TV is still on is a small green LED that's not always easy to see. However, the moment I walk into my apartment, I can tell that the TV is on, because I can hear a very audible high-pitched whine coming from it. It always amazes my friends, because nobody else can seem to hear it at all, even those that are several years younger than me. (I'm 35.) So I guess my ability to hear high-pitched sounds is better than average. I suspect, then, that the entrance to the convenience store mentioned in the article would be as annoying to me as it is to the teens they're trying to drive away. That would suck.
I find school prefects irritating too, but I wouldn't go this far!
In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
afaik, its illegal on some countries .. thats your car alarm
by using that you're causing serious damage to the person
there's also the alarm that was developed by the swedish army, it makes normal people get sick
I know a guy who in high school (~2 years ago) had his laptop with him nearly every day. He used Cool Edit Pro's tone generator to make this noise where the frequency occelated but occelated faster and faster, and trended higher and higher in frequency. So he'd start it way below the laptop's speakers frequency response (~5Hz) and it would take almost 15 seconds for the frequency to top out before going back down. In the next cycle, it would top out just a little higher in frequency and take just a little less time to get there. Eventually, it would get to where it was ~16KHz and changing very rapidly (very annoying) but since it took so long and was so gradual getting that way, nobody in a quiet library really notices. What's funny is it creates tension in a quiet room, while most people don't consciously notice it. So he'd let it get to it's most annoying point, and release all that unconscious tension by slamming a stack of books down on a table. There wasn't a single person in the library that didn't gasp. :-D
This sig rocks the casbah.
Sounds like something my noise cancelling headphones would screen out. Problem solved.
Besides, I'd be hard pressed to find a teenager who can hear such a frequency. Most of us youngens arleady listen to the music in our car that loud, and probably have worse hearing than the older generations.
I kill harmless processes for sport
Yeah, and to keep your parents away while you're f**king!!!
ha hahaaaa
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I can drive away door-to-door missionaries with a garden hose!
Best Buy can have you arrested
all we need is the right frequency to drive liberals away :p
I hate TV whine. I'm the only one in my house that can hear it, too.
My siblings always turn the TV on with no volume...and then wonder why I want to kill them.
It'd be way too cool if this device emitted the brown noise.
A whole bunch of teenagers crapping their pants. Hilarious.
Of course it wouldn't affect the elderly since they're already crapping their pants.
Well, I have been told by some pretty hard core dudes that, "You're not a real punk unless you've had scabies".
"It's very difficult to shoplift, Stapleton said, when you have your fingers in your ears."
Would Ear plugs not be an easy work-around for the more determined teen theif?
The perfect gift foy your favorite teen: linky
Bet you it's "pavarotti"...
:)
(that'd do it, for sure... well, that or Lawrence Welk)
*
APK
So, does your teenager repel herself?
Sean
As an HOH Person who got kicked around by the biz for a long time, until I found solutions, I know where you're coming from. I have been programming my own aids for about four years now. First off, the people that sell the aids don't now how to program digitals, so they sound bad. It's not the aids, but the EQ. Go to this website www.americahears.com and read what they have there. I have a pair, and they sell an aid that has the best programming of all, but, best of all, the give you everything you need to program them your self. I'm not a shill, but a person who is speaking from expereince and teh experience of many other Ah aid owners.
Also, go to hohadvocates.org, for a HOH community.
/. moderators desserve it tho so its ok! :)
I would think this device would be illegal. It's designed to drive teenagers away since they all "hang around being rude" and adults don't.
Why not make a machine that reacts with melanin to drive away "those trouble-making negroes"? It's the same damn concept.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
FYI, the way most of these attacks work is by utter and complete surprise. It's kind of a thuggish candid camera. By the time you recover from the hit and recognize what's going on, you've just got a bunch of stupid kids laughing at and taunting you. If you then drew your gun and shot, you'd be convicted of first- or second-degree murder in practically any jurisdiction -- yes, even Florida and Texas.
Being armed does nothing to prevent this sort of nonsense unless you want to send a powerful message at the expense of your freedom and some stupid kid's life.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Like my former teenage self from years ago. Back then, I actually got slashed outside of a convenience store by a bunch of kids that always hung out there (Brooklyn, yo). Being of the pasty, unarmed, physically non-threatening nerd variety, I might actually have shopped *more* at a place that had one of these.
My parents moved to a house where the neighbor had a still-living-at-home loser 20s son who kept blasting reggae music. On my first return from college, I got out a couple of my favorite industrial music CDs and cranked up the amplifier. That was it, no more reggae.
Same thing worked at college against inconsiderate nearby students. In particular, Cabaret Voltaire's remix of "Sensoria" sounds great at high volume, and will drown out almost anything. If that fails, Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" can clear buildings. I generally prefer headphone listening, but if someone starts a hifi war, by god I'll finish it.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
A few more years and I can loiter all I want.
This device could benefit the different, the tubby, the nerdy, the pasty, the scrawny, the thick-spectacled, and yes, even the *perfectly normal*, nonviolent good kids who just want to buy a Pepsi without getting stared down, mocked, or threatened by hooligans at the door.
Please keep that in mind.
"And yes, the sound drives me crazy, too. I'm 30 and an audio engineer. And I'm the only one in my household who can hear the damn TVs whining. :-)"
Good news: within about 5 years your hearing will degrade won't hear them anymore!
Bad news: within about 5 years your hearing will degrade and you may have to find another job!
-- Boycott Shell
Would the parent poster or others in this thread mind visiting SaveYourHearing.org and sharing some of your experiences? I'd like to grow this site into a place where people can go to get information on hearing, hearing loss - the unfortunate effects thereof especially, and hearing protection.
Do tell your stories please, if you might, so that others can learn how debilitating such a loss can be to one's life (and those of others who need to shout in order to maintain a conversation).
Please - make it yours. CONTENT CREATION IS CURRENTLY OPEN TO ANONYMOUS USERS so that I may "seed" this beast without people being reluctant to login. (This will probably last until I start receiving spam posts.) Create an account if you'd like though, and post your experiences. If you have references on hearing loss, hearing aid types, DSP software or settings, etc. please pass them along so others may enjoy them as well.
Tell your horror stories or how your hearing loss has affected you so that others may potentially avoid the same fate! (Please try to suppress your jealousy towards those still retaining their HF or voiceband response.....)
Many thanks. (yes - it's very new. I came up with the idea after spending $20 at a recent concert to buy earplugs from the bar and hand them out to people standing right near the speakers. I wanted a place where I could direct them to find information on protection and the effects of permanant (mostly high-frequency) hearing loss). Please express interest if you'd like to donate to such a fund. I'd like to give away or subsidize hearing protection distribution at music clubs.
If you have an SPL meter and would like to report on your findings at various music clubs across the planet, please do so!! I'd like to build a database of peak readings and then try and convince the audio engineers at these places to turn the volume down. I think "self regulation" is best and if we can convince club owners to keep the environment safe for the good of their customers, we all will benefit. I try to bring my protection every time, and often a few pair for friends.
Ever try having a conversation with a bass player or drummer who doesn't realize you're not wispering when you talk to them??? Please help me save people's hearing. Donate. Contribute. Tell your stories. Show people where they can buy earplugs cheaply online. Subsidize protection for others that wouldn't normally carry it themselves.
Do you have anyt tips or tricks for protecting your ears? Know a good way to fold up some material to place it in your ear for a makeshift plug? A good way to carry earplugs so they stay clean (and they're there when you need them - I think wallet based storage would be good but can't figure out a good way...). Do tell!
Thank you for any help or contact you can provide. If you'd like to contact me to help (with a SPL-survey, links for the site or suggestions, etc.) please do not hesitate to send me an email! "cyrus+saveyourhearing *at* 80d.org" (that's eight-zero-dee.org)
Once again - thank you. Spread the word, link to me or post whatever you can that you think might be helpful.
Cyrus
You know you are getting old when you can appreciate a device like that. No more having to yell "Hey you kids! Get off of my lawn!"
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
What happens if somebody uses a 10 time more powerful device at a teen concert.
So that's 85 dN - who'd even hear it?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Europeans, have always the humane solution for your degustation.
Jokes aside, I am entrely serious.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... the Ignobel Prize for Human Engineering next year.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
I'm a parent of a teenager, and I want 1 for my house. Anyone who has teenagers knows that they are like locusts. If they congregate at your house, your fridge will be empty, and your furnature and carpets distroyed. A little selective usage could ensure that they congregate at the other kids houses. I half expect to get modded as Funny on this, but I'm thinking it should be modded insightful.
This guy wasted his time trying to discipline HIS kids with this aweful device? Couldn't 40 inches of rawhide leather be just as effective? Oh, that's right. Beating children with belts is much worse that a high frequency sound that could damage the ears or say a tazer which could put holes in in your clothing and cause neurologocial damage if you get tazed in the spine.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
Of course, I can remember the good old days when we had an 8-track or cassette player, a good amp and speakers, and my folks complaining about how loud the kids are "these days". And they didn't call The Who, Rolling Stones, etc., music, either.
Someone asked why adult Americans have it in for teenagers. It's because we all were teenagers ourselves, and we're sore about the fact that our parents' wish, "I hope your kids turn out to be just like you", came true. Either that, or we're jealous that we know what we'd do if we were their age, now that we're older and wiser.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
My dad called it a lawnmower.
Nuff said.
"First you get the Linux, then you get the power, THEN you get the women"
From TFA "It's small and annoying," Stapleton said
I thought this article was about a device to "repel" teenagers. Once I read it, it became obvious that it is talking about Ross Perot.
Mr. T pitied this fool on 27 July 1992.
Mod grandparents UP!
...Drive the teens away from loitering on the streets.
:)
Where do they go?? home to play online games, thats where! We do NOT need more fuckwits dicking around on the aircraft carrier, disobeying orders and trying to fly the blackhawk into the wet deck in BF2.
If anything, install these sounds in games to drive the kids onto the street and away from our internt
Just go to Takadanobaba station on the Yamanote line, head out to the Big Box building right there, and stand in the doorway closest to the Yamanote train and Tozai subway entrances. Sure is bloody annoying, and no, it doesn't do much to drive the teens away, they still cluster there. But then TVs drive me nuts, and many people I talk to think I'm crazy as they hear nothing, so maybe the kids hanging out at Big Box simply can't hear the sound. Which begs the question of exactly how effective this Mosquito device will be...
¥2 for the interested.
Cheers,"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
20kHz is the upper limit of continuous hearing. Most people (even those almost deaf) can hear a few discrete frequencies much higher than that. This depends on how the resonant frequencies, and your particular inner ear arrangement come together.
Try this lip reading exercise on someone: Mouth the phrase "Island view" and ask them what you said. Nearly everyone will answer "I love you".
Lip reading is handy if you can do it, but isn't useful for communication. I know some deaf people, so I've always wanted to learn sign language so I can talk with them (that is we hang out in the same circles, but since we don't share a language we only communicate when there is an interpreter - formal situations where we are addressing everyone).
A couple shopping malls found out that classical music drives away younger shoppers. But that's only useful if your store happens to be Needless Markup, Saks, or some other store which caters to older women trying to look like their daughters.
Other marketers (A&F being the current champ) learned that heavy techno beats are a good way to lubricate the wallets of younger shoppers, and lesser retailers can only stand in awe of otherwise intelligent 20-year-olds willingly forking over $24 for a pre-aged T-shirt, without even having to hand over licensing fees to some other company.
The Mc Donalds in downtown Seattle has been doing this for years. Except they play music inside and outside at high volume.
_ music_24hours.php
"The sidewalk outside the McDonald's at Third Avenue and Pike Street has always been a popular spot to loiter, and six years ago, its owner, Rick Barrett, decided to do something about it. First, he took the lead of several other cities and began piping MUZAK out onto the corner. The kids stayed put, so Barrett switched tactics by blasting country music, a racially acute bit of target marketing that garnered noise complaints from the neighbors."
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0545/051109
Funny thing was. it worked! all the teens went down to the Public Market to hang out. Barrett reported record profits that month.
I checked all my LPs, and not a single one has a root kit.
When I was about 16 (I'm 19 now), there were some kids in the campground I camp in that I was not allowed to be around. When I wanted to use the playground to be with my friends (it is the only common area that was close to my camper), I simply pulled out an AM radio (dating myself here) and turned it to the local 50's/60's station, if that was off air for the evening, I tried to get WKBW out of Bufflo, NY. I love that kind of music, but they don't. Another idea is if the kids are acting all Gansta (rap language I don't understand) switch to a country station, they hate that. Be sure to stay within local noise laws otherwise, they will call the cops on you.
sudo mod me up
Maybe the crime rate decreased because less teens were getting illegal abortions, and the doctor's weren't being charged with a crime for aborting a child? Just a thought.
Shouldn't that be classified as age discrimination?