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Python Joins Movement To Dump 'Offensive' Master, Slave Terms (theregister.co.uk)
Python creator Guido van Rossum retired in July, but he's been pulled back in to resolve a debate about politically incorrect language. The Register reports: Like other open source communities, Python's minders have been asked whether they really want to continue using the terms "master" and "slave" to describe technical operations and relationships, given that the words remind some people of America's peculiar institution, a historical legacy that fires political passions to this day. Last week Victor Stinner, a Python developer who works for Red Hat, published four pull requests seeking to change "master" and "slave" in Python documentation and code to terms like "parent," "worker," or something similarly anodyne. "For diversity reasons, it would be nice to try to avoid 'master' and 'slave' terminology which can be associated to slavery," he explained in his bug report, noting that there have been complaints but they've been filed privately -- presumably to avoid being dragged into a fractious flame war. And when Python 3.8 is released, there will be fewer instances of these terms.
So what about people who are unable to have children, will they get offended by references to 'parent'?
This has gotten out of hand, definitely.
good fucking god. you stupid fucking pc idiots are ruining the world for the majority.
seriously? this is what the world is becoming????
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
"Gru" and "Minion"
Does PC cultures have to infect everything?
Everyone knows that it won't stop there. A few years later there will be more "offensive" words that need to be changed. Personally, I won't stop being offended until we're all coding in machine code and then I'll fight for machine rights because who are we to tell them their language?
The terms are needlessly evocative. I propose we use "dom/sub" instead
I agree master-slave is problematic, but what are you going to use in place?
Dom-sub? Capitalist-proletariat? PHB-engineer?
Do they really want to open this can of worms?
The use of "peculiar institution" without quotation marks or preceded by "so-called" is even more offensive. At least the Register article has it as a hyperlink, but the Slashdot blockquote lacks it.
How is slavery America's "peculiar institution"? Slavery has existed for centuries in many countries. It still exists to this day, even though people continue to ignore it.
I will still call them master and slave since thats what they are and it not being offense as the threads/processes dont care either way.
A wedge issue in which control can follow.
They did this back in the early 90s when hard drive controllers were paired (y'all remember the PATA ribbon drive cables, right kids?) with a master drive and a slave drive so they changed it to primary and secondary because that offended people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Frankly I find this oppressing to BDSM relationships.
5) Windshield/Bug
4) Ampulex compressa / Periplaneta americana
3) Eastwood / Punk
2) Wall / Mime
1) PC / Wrongthink
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
One such recent example included the manufacturer’s labeling of equipment where the words “Master/Slave” appeared to identify the primary and secondary sources. Based on the cultural diversity and sensitivity of Los Angeles County, this is not an acceptable identification label.
What a bunch of twatwaffle snowflakes.
Grow up, you fucking whiny children.
Trigger words like slave, monkey, etc automatically make the Left think of certain types of people, even though the context may be totally unrelated to people. If only the Left could deal with their own racism and resolve it instead of projecting it, the world would be much more peaceful.
Since number 4 is technically closest, I for one will be using Amp / Perp going forward, in part because it's close to the Eastwood one... :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Remember when some bellyacher complained about this with master/slave IDE and everyone laughed?
Good times.
As long as nothing breaks and everything works fine, I don't really care what things are called.
given that the words remind some people of America's peculiar institution
I find it odd how 'slavery' is so often framed as an American phenomenon, when it was/is a worldwide institution. The US was simply the last superpower to abolish it locally. Slavery is unfortunately alive and well, which should be clear to anyone willing to take a look around.
As for the topic at hand: The folks arguing for this might have a point if the terms being used were 'whitey' and 'blackey' or something equivalently racist, but I find the terms 'master' and slave' to be sufficiently "anodyne" considering they refer to a relationship between two things and neither term explicitly refers to a particular type of individual. Are we going to get rid of 'parent' and 'child' as well because some people were beaten by their parents?
You Sir, are a legend!
Ugh This PC Correctness just makes me shake my head. I can live with some of the doing away with the 12 year old boy locker room stuff and the vulgar stuff . After all we do want to create an environment for all.
;)
But I write code and create things. Everything around this safe space, I'm offended by everything! environment just gives me heart burn because it has nothing to do with writing code and creating tech.
If an individual is capable (but kinda) and ass. Hey that happens in the real world. If an individual or Company are jerks I can move on.
But renaming thing because some might be offended even when the terms are completely out of the bad context is a waste of time that might be used for more productive things.
This is all just my personal feelings and opinions. So I hope we can just have a discussion.
Just my 2 cents
I will stop using Python if they succumb to this nonsense! Oh wait, I don't use Python anyway. It has horrible syntax.
I rolled my eyes so hard I fell asleep.
If anything, these terms should be retained to remind us of the improper use and relationship between people, which is perfectly fine for tools like software.
I think we need to ask ourselves whether some of our activities are good for humanity in general. Does resizing this cereal box from 16oz to 12oz so I can sell less at the same price benefit humanity? The waste of packaging materials for the smaller quantity would suggest NO. Does changing a word used for a function of software benefit humanity other than keeping some programmers employed to support the change?
replace with Lord & Thrall or Lord & Serf.
Primarily a caucasian-on-caucasian description, so it'd get rid of the racial connection.
Slavery happened, and all cultures embraced it at one time or another. It's not just the United States. If you don't like it, invent a time machine and use it to change all of human history. We all have slaves and slave masters in our lineage if you go back several thousand years.
This current bent to try to erase history won't end well. Our current attempts to purify the world of anything offensive is just another form of fascism. I've voted for Democrats my whole life, and that's not going to change. But this current fascism of the left has me hating it just as much as I hate the extreme right wing. They've both bent inward, and now are separated by barely a handspan.
sure... with Billionnaire/underpaid_worker...
exact same relationship
So now they’re stuck trying to come up with words that mean the same thing, and all they’re doing is making it less clear how these processes work.
“Parent”/“Child” isn’t accurate - there are plenty of times my daughter hasn’t done some task I told her to do. “Pliant children” seems demeaning to actual children.
How about “Queen” and “Drone”? “Breadwinner” and “Stepford wife”? “Night King” and “White Walker”?
Time to add master/slave terms to all of my open source projects.
Maybe we can instead say the woke and the counterrevolutionaries. And please don't object that it's needlessly long and unclear, because objections like that are basically racism. And don't ask me to explain that last thing, because that would definitely be racist.
Just comment/downvote/whatever any of the proposed alternatives
"parent"
I'm an orphan, I never had parents! I'm offended!
I have fertility issues, I'll never be a parent! I'm offended!!
"worker"
I just got fired so I'm out of work! I'm offended!
I can't work due to being differently-abled! I'm offended!
since it's a reference to a penis. /s
Should change their name to naval or something which would only offend clones with no umbilical cords...
this PC shit out of our tools.
It's *language*. Programming languages need to be *concise* and *precise*.
When "master" and "slave" are *perfect* terms describing the relationship between components then use those terms.
It's obviously not talking about people.
And when talking about people, that's merely one use for those terms. If railroad engines took offense, should we use some other term when trying to apply it to people??
Is the railroad industry next? Gonna have to start calling engines in slave-mode to be in some-other-word-that-doesn't-offend-idiots-mode ?
I don't know. On the one hand we can say that this is the result of "feel good but do nothing" culture taken too far. On the other hand, slavery is pretty fricking gross.
I really just don't know, but I guess in the larger context of life it seems like a pretty dumb thing for me to care about. Being upset about changing the terminology, that is.
It would only be fair then if Python scripts clean up the bible, quran etc as well. On the other hand, their respective religious leaders seem to be capable of handling the whitewashing themselves quite well.
I never made the connection these people did. Are they actively looking for reasons to take offence?
Personally, I'm more offended by mundane words like "parent" and "worker".
there are any number of technical or common use termsnthat could go on the nanny list.
Master/slave
parent/child (may hurt those who can't be parents)
daemon (demons are evil)
Semaphore (railroad crossings can be dangerous)
python ( a dangerous invasive species in Florida)
client/server (server implies subservient, or maybe a dead end food service job)
class (evokes upper/lower/elite class envy. class systems are counter to diversity )
... also known as "being polite."
You can try and equate the two but it isn't true. One can be polite and still discuss master / slave on USB and other appropriate topics. One cannot be politically correct and do the same.
I'm a religious man, and don't my computer to spawn daemons... Please rename to something less offensive.
In photography, you can have a master flash which then triggers other flashes, i.e. slave flashes.
In fact, on many speedlights (the smaller flashes which fit on a camera), the word master is used as one of the options.
If you look at this image, the back of the SB-700 and SB-900 both have the word Master on the selector area.
At some point one has to realize not everything can be sanitized. Some things simply have to be the way they are because the wording is precise despite any other connotations.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
to maximize global participation in computer science. If some people are feeling disenfranchised by the terms, then make a new language, use different terms. Keep scientific progress moving.
I wonder how that will be interpreted
>>worker
Connotation of a bot or script.
I understand that humans (like to think they) have progressed past direct unit-to-unit subservience... ...but that's actually the desired idea for inanimate objects. You're goddamn right that I don't want a lower process (ie vulnerable to outside input) to have ANY authority except what it absolutely needs. Maybe I want it to obey/disregard the OS/somethingelse and I'll directly instruct as much.
Or other things that seem cruel to a human but are not cruel to electrons. Fencing humans (ie shock collar boundaries) like cattle is wrong. Fencing programs/code is exactly what you should be doing. Aggressively.
So it's little surprise that the most fitting terms were words regarding the same behavior.
Since my concern is precision and I don't value the existing terms except for their function (ie DGAF if the words are offensive to victimlympics, but I am not emotionally attached to masterslave either) I recognize that we could declare any new word in their place. Foo is the all-powerful master and subject to no slave, Bar is the subservient slave with no say, no rights, no access.
Except the English language isn't like a programming one where you can just flip a switch and change it up.
Oh wait, you get blowback even doing that in code.
"Class" how can we have such a term used anywhere in tech!
;)
I know! We can use "Proletariat" instead!
Just my 2 cents
Wait until we get "Calling something 'bash' promotes violence!"
And heaven forbid you reap your zombie processes...
n/t
And leave the grownups on the "master" fork.
Why would you leave Jews out of this, since they share most of the old Testament?
Master & Servant - a little B, D, S, & M anyone?
Human slavery is still alive and well today. At present, around the world, some estimate there are nearly 46 million people living in slavery.
So it seems to me that getting rid of the term "slavery" does not actually help the problem; it simply sweeps the problem under the rug, so those of us prone to "fainting couches" no longer have to look at the problem or think about the problem.
Does this deliberate ignorance make us better as a people?
Further, when the day does come when human slavery no longer exists, when it is a faint memory and the only places its talked about are in history books and in computer science classes--does this make computer scientists insensitive people? Or does this give us the ability to finally redefine the terms from one of the horrors of human slavery and into a technical term? Meaning does this make computer scientists bad people? Or are they reclaiming two words for a higher purpose?
I think this whole process of throwing otherwise useful terms down the memory hole distasteful, because it inadvertently sweeps serious, real, and pressing problems under the rug. I would rather reframe the problem of human slavery than ignore it.
This trend of seeking offense where none is intended is incredibly toxic to humanity. In the English language many words have different meanings based on their context. It's plainly obvious that no allusion to human slavery is meant in the context of software or hardware module relationships.
Let's be blunt about what has happened: people have been abusively harmed by others lying to them and telling them that context is meaningless. They have been given invented forms of discomfort in order to make them slaves to unpleasant emotional responses that have no underlying basis in reality. That's the irony here. The people complaining about the terminology are behaving in a herd manner, controlled by powermongers who benefit from it. Power flows from irrational group cohesion, and the cheapest and easiest form irrational group cohesion is hatred of the other. There are many ways to define the "other" and you can see it everywhere in politics: race, nationality, language, religion, gender, sexual orientation, and (seriously, humanity actually went here) word choice. Both conservatives and progressives exploit these shamelessly. Stop playing their games.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
LIke why does it matter.
I think Parent Child or Primary/Secondary/Tertiary/etc... sounds better and arguably makes more sense.
Words have different meaning depending on their context. If you're a little fucking baby that doesn't understand this, then you should be in a different industry.
Every word offends people now. So we can't say or type anything anymore? Stop communicating or else you might offend someone. Not communicating offends people now too. So you have to both communicate and not communicate at the same time or else you will offend someone. Wait that offends people now too. Offending offends people, infinity, inception, forever offended.
I believe America is the only country where the masters decided to switch places with the slaves, so you can see how the terminology is too confusing
What an utter dumbshit thing to say, on so many levels.
First: ceasing and desisting to enslave others does not constitute an agreement to "swap places" and enslave oneself.
Second: nor does treating folks of an ethnicity that your group once enslaved as equals constitute allowing yourself to be enslaved.
Third: The US was late to the party. Nearly every other western country, including the UK from which the USA broke in 1776, outlawed slavery decades (in some cases over a century) before the US finally came around.
Fourth: while much of the world, including the UK and commonwealth, treated former slaves as equals before the law (and later, culturally), the US only asymptotically approached that state fairly recently, and has now reverted to primitive form "bigly."
I'm sure others will add to this list, but I think that suffices to show how moronic your right-wing talking point really is.
Guido van Rossum - is literally worse than a Nazi.
Parent and worker? Parents have children, children have been exploited and continue to be by many societies as workers. Often subject to harsh, dangerous, and life shortening conditions for little pay!
By choosing these terms for use in Python he is clearly endorsing these practices. I don't think there is any choice here but to call for the immediate divestiture in all things Python; Socially responsible organizations should be porting their applications in scripts to languages that better reflect today's social norms.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
given that the words remind some people of America's peculiar institution
Those words can't "remind" anyone of that institution, seeing how no living person is present to remember it.
Anything pro-slavery in the New Testament? I honestly don't know, but give Christians credit for being on version 2.0.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Dont forget the Task and the Task manager, that needs to be changed too.
I would like to register my objection to the term 'Python'. A a member of the protected class 'herpetophobics', I am not comfortable with the slithering symbolism evoked.
As for the term 'Programmer', clearly the use of a non employment-specific term (i.e.'grammers') would be less offensive to those who labor in code yet are unpaid.
And Java? Don't even get me started on the exploitation of coffee growers worldwide.
Justifiable Outrage abounds.
Go look those terms up if you're unfamiliar with them.
another one of the most active contributors for something using his influence to suggest completely unnecessary changes
Why is this even a topic of discussion ?
Go out there and get offended more often! Expand your comfort zone. Understand that people are, look, act, think different and what you think means "hey there" can mean "I fucked your mother" in another cultures unofficial sign language. Also, what you think is a really rude gesture actually means "have a nice day, hope to see you again soon".
Slavery as a reality of life is a terrible thing that we abolished and good riddance. And the places in the world that still have it should get our support in getting rid of it, too.
Master/slave as a metaphor for a technical relation is no more offensive than calling the white and black water pipes in your house by those names, which are not racist and have nothing to do with skin colour.
If someone is reminded that their great-great-grandfathers came to America as slaves, and because of that has their feelings hurt, they should work on being no so easily hurt. Life can be hell if you get hurt so easily. Also, without the slave trade, you would be living somewhere in Africa today, are you sure you'd prefer that?
But some people apparently have no other hobbies and looking for reasons to be hurt by something and constructing causes of emotional harm seems to fit them.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The two are not mutually exclusive.
It's kinda obvious that some people are uncomfortable with the terminology.
How difficult is it for pliable minds to simply adopt another set of words to describe, precisely, the same thing?
What motivation exceeds being polite?
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
The people objecting to Master/Slave terms probably don't have a proper understanding of Parent/Child as they've been raised by friends who at the same time isolate them from the real world like a control freak. Therefore, they don't have a proper healthy grasp of Parent Child in order to have the metaphor work
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Because the future of society, the economy, and the internet hinges on how intrusive it will become. We need to destroy everything that technology is built upon so that technocrats will be the only organisms alive on this Earth that understand any of it. Hackers will become extinct, for they will be dangerous to the Order of Things.
We don't want 500 million users directly jacked into a system directly to their biologically enhanced interfaces. We don't want hackers making people go blind, or making them sick from computer viruses. We also don't want anyone but the technocracy to have access to individual's data. Hackers pose a threat to non-competitive commerce and the Order.
It is the reason why we created common core. To screw with education so much no one can compete unless they un-program all the bullshit they learned in school, and replace it with knowledge that is useful in a fully intrusive, digital world.
The SJW movement is the perfect catalyst to destroy it all because they are mindless tools already.
Torn from their home and kidnapped? Try sold by their own people, for whom they were already slaves. Not that the reality of what actually happened is any better than your ignorant understanding, mind you, but... you could at least make an attempt to be factually accurate.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Remember when we helped liberate Libya from the tyrannical clutches of Qaddafi? Go Team America!
Here's an article about the bustling slave trade going on there right now.
https://www.newsweek.com/human...
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
In some languages this terms (client/server among others), have been borrowed from English and are used in specialized technical language in talks for example about classic IDE interface but without translation, server, slave, client/slave etc actually meanning a software, a particular hardware configuration or something else, but not the original English sens as a person or a human, which somehow has been ost.
So the Nazi Germans in 1943 were just "being polite"? They were politically correct for their state and culture at the time. Politically correct is nothing more than herd mentality, sometimes it is morally correct and other times when generations look back it is morally apprehensible.
Shit cunt!
"America's peculiar institution"
As if America was the only country to historically allow slavery.
Those link show 3 different replacements for master/slave.
Should need to be in agreement to change terms that have been allow longer than I have been alive.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
"given that the words remind some people of America's peculiar institution"
It wasn't peculiar to America. Still isn't.
There are more slaves today than at that time in American History.
Slavery Predates the Egyptian Empire.
GROW THE F**K up.
Can't that introduce bugs, what if the "supplicant" just walk away ?
Personally, I'm offended by all the unix commands that sounds like disgusting bodily noises.
awk
sed
grep
Just to name a few.
I'm firmly in the camp that thinks this is much ado about nothing.
But in the spirit of it being much ado about nothing, it seems absurd for me to get worked up about it. So if let them try to change it if it makes them feel better... if it gets traction and sticks... fine, whatever.
The boilers I work with are labeled Master and Follower when you connect multiple together... they were master and slave up until recently, I guess they were ahead of the curve.......
I support his change because the current terminology reminds me of the fact that the middle east and Africa took more white European slaves than the white Europeans ever took from Africa (not to include the record setting amount of African slaves taken by the sultans of Arabia throughout history). PS: This is virtue signalling by python devs. Its the equivalent of posting a selfie of themselves giving money to the homeless, which would be more productive in California.
... also known as "being polite."
Yeah no. People using the term "politically correct" are almost always doing it derisively. There is a large difference between politeness and political correctness. Just because the words start with the same letters does not mean they are similar.
Oh, sorry, I hope my use of "large" wasn't offensive to anyone. I probably should have used the more politically correct term "differently-weighted".
That is all
longer than it was even useful (the Northern states were out performing the Southern one's economically because the south had too much capital tied up in slaves). We also fought a civil war over it.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The name change is not a big deal honestly. They could have changed the name kept quit about it and almost nobody would have noticed or cared.
Well, there's politeness and there's treading on eggshells.
You seem quite content, for example, to dismiss a viewpoint entirely and represent it in a negative way. Is that polite? Would it not be more polite to spend a little time understanding the alternative viewpoint and suggesting a compromise?
There are lots of things "permitted", like slavery polygamy, but that doesn't indicate that it was promoted. The Bible is pretty clear that slaves are also "humans" and not sub human, and were to be treated humanely. I wouldn't call it "pro slavery" as much as "permitted".
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I think it's far more polite not to impose your peculiar pet peeves on others.
Political correctness is following somebody else's guidelines for what is acceptable speech. As a result it can come across as insincere. The speaker may even resent being coerced into speaking that way. Politeness comes from the individual and so comes across as more heartfelt and sincere.
Rather than getting to the root of the problem, political correctness simply encourages people to mask their real views until an opportunity to vote in somebody who shares their disdain for political correctness comes along. The more they feel their free speech has been trampled upon, the more keen they'll be to vote this way.
I'm pretty sure 'master' and 'slave' refers to BDSM relationships - it's bigoted to take this out of the lexicon, as it's an attempt to shame people that like wearing leather and tying each other up. Spank you very much.
I remember hearing complaints about this back in the mid 90s. It was probably never a good idea to use those terms, but, well, tech was dominated by nerdy white men. They didn't mean anything by it, but it didn't occur to them that slavery might be a touchy subject for some.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
That was the last time there was 100% employment for Blacks.
Yes, the Epistle to Philemon. It's fairly short, you can read it.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Not equal does not mean opposite. It is entirely possible to be polite while using PC vocabulary, it is impossible to be polite demanding PC vocabulary. Can you spot the difference in those two examples?
Politeness and PC are at best unrelated aspects of communcation, but often PC is used as an excuse to be impolite.
Even if that was a fair comparison, why should people take on hardship in order to be polite? Thats counter to human nature. If they had done it, and not bragged about how great they are for doing so, maybe I would believe it was to be polite.
You know damn well that the term today doesn't mean the sam as in 1943 in Nazi Germany. Don't you?
sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
I refuse to be a slave to their nomenclature determination!
but America was the last country on earth to maintain a practical legal apparatus for slavery. We fought a civil war for it (yeah, it was "State's rights" but the "right" we was fighting over was the right to own people).
Moreover, we maintained the institution even when it was no longer economically viable (the South was hurting because they had too much capital tied up in slaves that needed to be spent on machines & industrialization). America was maintaining slavery for social reasons. We wanted those slaves as a sort of social buffer. It helped keep poor white southerners in their place since they could look down on the black slaves and feel OK about their (appalling) living conditions because, hey, at least I'm not a slave.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Obligatory Niel Gaiman quote.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The term "politically correct" goes back to the 1930s, being used to refer to those who espoused positions that were acceptable by the political standards of the Nazis or the Communists. For example, the New York Times reported in 1934 that German officials were granting reporting permits "only to pure 'Aryans' whose opinions [were] politically correct".
Disagreeing with the Nazis was, of course, ever so impolite.
It's time to ban 0 and 1 because it can offends non-binary peoples!
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
The thing that makes slavery wrong is that it treats people as if they were things without free will or feelings or purpose other than to serve us. Software modules actually are things without free will, feelings, or purpose other than to serve us.
It's offensive to call an adult black man "boy". It doesn't mean "boy" is an inherently offensive word or concept.
If you take a consequentialist view of ethics, the consequences of banning the word "slave" is that we no longer have a word to describe that concept. It does nothing for people actually are or were enslaved. How would you write a biography of Frederick Douglass? If you have a deontological view of ethics, there is no equivalence between describing an act and participating in the act; you can't end rape by not allowing people to use the word "rape".
People overall have a magical.view of words, which is why everyone is keen to police everyone else's language. That's how we ended up calling the place we poop the "rest room", which is kind of bizarre when you think of it.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Oh. You mean indentured servitude.
Here's a newsflash for you buttercup, Humanity was shit to each other i the past no matter the colour/creed/sex/what the fuck ever else.
The bible also had a year of jubilee every 50 years where all slaves were freed and all debt was forgiven. Even more progressive than we are today. We could use the jubilee concept today to prevent the defacto slavery and debt slaves that exist today.
kidnapped across an ocean,
So many people were enslaved through the ages with absolutely no oceans involved that it's bizarre to list it.
Because the goal posts keep moving. Look at the chain of words considered polite to use for someone who has trouble walking for an example. The words used for someone who has more melanin in their skin than other folks for another. Why not put the onus on the LISTENER instead of the SPEAKER for a change? Just because a snowflake gets offended doesn't mean the person speaking intended to be offensive.
employer employee
4wdloop
Do you know how many store fronts will have to be modified?
I'm a 22 year old smoking hot Jesus loving lesbian.
It upsets me greatly female cables can't be joined with other female cables.
Each time I fail to join female cables without a epileptic trigger inducing "genderbender" it brings me to tears. Each failure causes me to question my faith and wonder why god hates me so.
All involved with production, distributing and marketing such cables hates lesbians with all their hearts... even the hot ones... fags!!. They should all be boycotted and attacked publically by Facebook and twitter lynch mobs until they give up on life on earth and move to another planet.
P.S. Blackbody radiation is RACIST.
XoXo
Nat
Why should someone be offended today because of something that happened to his ancestors generations ago, an institution that has been abolished for one century and a half? The divisions of those times certainly shouldn't be forgotten, but should be overcome, and be relegated to history books, instead of being reignited at every occasion.
Why should someone be offended by a term that was, without an once of doubt, being used with no offensive intention? Labeling those terms as racist means, in its turn, to label everyone who used them as a racist. That's a lot of people, most of them good persons, who will possibly feel resentment, for being slapped with the unjust attachment of an odious guilt.
We'll have a hard time fighting ignorance and populism if the image of us that is perceived by the people whom we're trying to convince is that of someone who can never be made happy, no matter what. And I'm afraid that this path leads us to get Trumps, Orbáns, Salvinis and company not for 5 more years, but for 20. Sorry for the rant.
I'm pretty sure 'master' and 'slave' refers to BDSM relationships - it's bigoted to take this out of the lexicon, as it's an attempt to shame people that like wearing leather and tying each other up. Spank you very much.
I am offended by the term 'constant', please change it to something non-discriminatory.
Wait, I'm also offended by the "off" in 'offended', as that is a negative, insulting, disparaging term; that needs to be changed also.
what will they call that?
A stupid argument for a turd language.
As the descendant of white slaves, I'm deeply offended at the effort to wash our history of the institution of slavery. When my ancestors were slaves of black African slaveholders in the 17th century, the horrors they endured paled in comparison the relatively luxurious treatment of slaves in America.
The only thing that made the American institution 'peculiar' is that slaves in America were actually treated relatively well. What the black African slave owners did to white slaves would make Stephen King blush.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
It's kinda obvious that some people are uncomfortable with the terminology.
How difficult is it for pliable minds to simply adopt another set of words to describe, precisely, the same thing?
What motivation exceeds being polite?
Being correct? Because screw being polite if it means it muddies the waters. Also, why do "we" need to be pliable? Why can't the other side of this argument get over themselves and accept that words can have different meaning depending on context?
die Amerikaner.
Yes. Jesus said, "slaves obey your masters."
How far back in history are you willing to go to right a wrong? Let's look back at the North America before the Europeans invaded. The native Americans regularly fought one another with the losers ended up dead or used as slaves. Lets go back to the Roman Empire and take a look at the ethnicity and treatment of their slave work force and make amends to their ancestors alive today. How about going back to the ancient Egyptian Empire and take a look at the ethnicity of their slave work force and make amends to their ancestors alive today. We can use the Ancestor DNA to identify all of those ethnic groups that have been wronged over the past 3000+ years.
And the fact that this idiotic request to change the master/slave syntax was even raised is another sign of the crumbling of a society that gets weaker year by year. Victimhood, demands for special treatment, and upsetting someone's precious sensibilities has replaced common fucking sense.
You are doing it wrong.
How cowardly.
How does one access this special back channel? Is it hidden from the hoi poli, only for the special? Do the complainants have any financial leverage over "Python's minders?" Not going to answer that are you? Nice "open" process...
Good tactic anyhow; had "they" gone through the front door with this scab picking it would have been rightly ridiculed.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
It also decreed zero prohibitions against slavery, and thus its views on how to treat slaves are irrelevant.
Why the fuck could there not have been a simple commandment to the effect of "Don't own people as property! For you yourselves would not wish to be treated as such."
Face it, the majority of Humans are much more moral than the cosmic horror thee Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship.
This space unintentionally left blank.
given that the words remind some people of America's peculiar institution, a historical legacy that fires political passions to this day.
Whouzawhat now? I think chattel slavery predates existence of 'America' by a written history or so. C'mon people. How about 'domus' and 'servus?' Better? At least now we can pile on the Romans when the snowflakes start falling.
This reminds me of a joke programming language mocking feminazi women's libbers called 'C+=' and in readme they make big deal of how they banished concepts of master and slave, along with constructs of 'class' and 'inheritance' and other patriarchy-kinda stuff. Interpreter called Herterpreter etc. And its supposed to be a joke. Or it was a joke. Life imitates art sometimes I guess. As Orangeman says, Sad./P
I have created a new language. Enter Retard-o. The new non-compliant language of the discriminate, non political types.
This is not a good example. That Onesimus was a slave of Philomen (rather than merely a servant) is not supported textually in the book of Philomen. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Philemon. Beyond that, Paul recommends to Philomen to receive Onesimus as a brother, and as he would Paul himself. It's hardly an endorsement of slavery.
"Master" and "slave" perfectly convey the concept. Pandering to SJW language police is not only a waste of time, it encourages them to waste our time on this kind of trivia.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
For fuck's sake. Get rid of the crazies making these requests. They are narcissists. Do not let them get away with things. They'll turn the world into a horrible place. Nobody gets offended by these terms in these contexts, or in any context whatsoever, nor should they. It's not about it at all. It's about the self-centered broadcasting of standing on an inane version of the moral high ground without having to do anything worthy.
"For diversity reasons,
WHELP, way to make it a political issue right from the get-go.
Shredding humans is a terrible practice, so let's rename paper shredders to something less uncomfortable.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Wouldn't it be better to rename the slaves instead ?
As a bonus, there wouldn't be any more slavery in the united states' history.
Master and Slave are metaphors for the controller and the controlled.
So use those, or synonyms of them.
Done
Sure, slavery has been dead but let's go changing master/slave terms. We'll completely ignore male, female and gender bender/changer terms in plumbing. The female plumbing parts do not even get the chance to consent. Psychologically, male plumbers knowingly act out fantasy role-play rape with their fittings day after day. I wonder how many plumbers eventually move beyond their fantasy role-play to actual rape?
BronsCon claimed:
Torn from their home and kidnapped? Try sold by their own people, for whom they were already slaves. Not that the reality of what actually happened is any better than your ignorant understanding, mind you, but... you could at least make an attempt to be factually accurate.
I'm assuming you are referring strictly to victims of the 16th- through 18th-Century trade in African slaves, rather than to slavery worldwide, prior to the Industrial Revolution, as lgw noted above? Because his comment is spot-on, and bears emphasizing.
Before that time, the economies of every major civilization on this planet were powered by slaves (okay, in Medieval times, they were called "serfs," but, since they were forbidden to move away from the land they worked as tenant farmers, and had to endure customs such as prima nocta, it's a distincion without a difference). Without them, there wouldn't have been a Hellenic or Hellenistic Greek civilization, or a Roman Republic or Empire - to name two of the most important wellsprings of Western culture.
But you're dead wrong about "their own people" selling Africans into the Atlantic slave trade - unless by "their own people" you mean "other black Africans from completely different tribes who made their living kidnapping members of tribes too primitive to have firearms, and selling them to European slave traders."
In which case, talk about arguing a false equivalence!
You're basically saying, "They (i.e. - black Africans) are all 'the same people,'" when, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. That's exactly the equivalent of lumping Canadians and citizens of the USA together, and claiming that they too are "all the same people."
Try that in a crowd of Canadians at your next opportunity, and see how they react.
(Hint: Odds are they will express their disagreement politely. Then try the same experiment in a crowd of, say Southies, or Philly fans. Compare and contrast the experiences, and report back - once you get out of the hospital, I mean ... )
Check out my novel.
Language changes. There are plenty of words that describe something that we no longer use, in preference of other words. It is not offensive to change the terminology, so why bother keeping it? Tradition? Is that really a reason to keep something?
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
In order to slavishly follow this politically correct trend, and completely eradicate it, we must also erase:
Robot: Derived from a Czech work for slave
Server: Clearly derived from "servant"
Servant: obviously
Service: Has a common derivation with "Servant"
We can no longer thank military folk for their slavery.
Depeche Mode: Because of the song, "Master and Servant"
Devo: Because "Whip It" may, in someone's wildest, most insane stretch of imagination, might actually be about slavery.
The song called, "Louie Louie", because no one can understand the lyrics and it just might be about slavery.
The US Secret Service: Because it means they"re the President's slaves
James Bond, In Her Majesty's Secret Service
Systemd: Bcause it manages "services"
File Servers: They are slaves too.
Everything that's a service
All the movies that have slaves in them or mention slavery.
Master and Slave Flip flops, a basic digital logic building block
Master Clock: Because all other clocks are slaves
Master copy: By definition, all copies of itself are slaves.
Headmaster: This means everyone else in the school are slaves.
Master carpenter, master electrician, master mason, etc.
All humans and human history: Because slavery has been practiced all over the world practically since humans existed (and is still practiced in some places that are not America).
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum, ad nauseum, ad nauseum.
Can we rename "Fetus" to "Unborn, yet Still Precious, Human Life"?
Yes Mistress.
Does that make the SJW team happier?
I know that every other Friday, I'm very happy with Mistress.
Shareholder/employee
bash: clean: command not found
Grandmaster, Prisoners with jobs
Considering that the people raising the issue under discussion are referring specifically to Black slavery in America, yes, that's what I was referring to. Yes, it happened elsewhere, and continues elsewhere to this very day. No, that's not relevant to this discussion; which is why, unlike you, I didn't inappropriately bring it up.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Sorry to have to post as an AC but...
The catty, off-hand comment about America being slow to abandon slavery is not necessary to the argument and beyond the simplest of interpretations, disingenuous. Possibly this was just reflects some subconscious bias, but the implication is that stupid, slow Americans are slow compared to urbane, clever, and noble Europeans. I am honestly sick of this crap.
Several U.S. states had abolished slavery at the onset of the revolution from the slave trading empire of England. In fact, the U.S. abolished the import of new slaves at this time, while England was happily capturing and selling people for profit for years to come.
Although it is popular of Euro's to pretend that England abolished slavery due to enlightened ideas, the reality is that it happened more from internal pressure from Scots and Irish who viewed slaves as a competitor for low skill jobs. A series of slave rebellions across the empire and the refusal of the US to buy slaves further reduced the economic viability. It is for these reasons that England finally ended it in the 1830's and "nobly" replaced slaves with exploitable low paid workers with low, pay and nearly hobbled voting rights.
On the U.S. front, it took a 30 additional years more to settle the issue. Many states were anti-slavery, but surprise, surprise, those that benefited most did not want to change their evil ways, kinda like Nike today. This resulted in a famous war where one race took the unusual position shedding blood to free another race (that did not help in the revolt by and large), and ultimately gets no credit for doing so in modern times. I digress.
While it is true that other parts of Eurpope had either abolished slavery or never even had it, many did have a thing called serfs. I am sure their is a technical difference between a serf and a slave, but for the life of me I do not really see it. At the very least, the similarities are closer than the differences.
I guess my major point is that reality is complicated. The long struggle to abolish slavery continues to this day. There are plenty of villains to go around. No one's hands are very clean, except perhaps for the American Quakers in Pennsylvania. So, please, stop bragging about being slightly less shitty a little faster, for some pretty terrible reasons.
SqueakyMouse opined:
Political correctness is following somebody else's guidelines for what is acceptable speech. As a result it can come across as insincere. The speaker may even resent being coerced into speaking that way. Politeness comes from the individual and so comes across as more heartfelt and sincere.
Rather than getting to the root of the problem, political correctness simply encourages people to mask their real views until an opportunity to vote in somebody who shares their disdain for political correctness comes along. The more they feel their free speech has been trampled upon, the more keen they'll be to vote this way.
I wish I had mod points left. Unlike so many others that get one, your comment actually deserves a +1 Insightful upmod ...
Check out my novel.
How difficult is it for pliable minds to simply adopt another set of words to describe, precisely, the same thing?
What motivation exceeds being polite?
The motivation of rejecting appeasement. Those who deal in this sort of crap will never be satisfied that they have made the world "safe" for those they believe they are protecting.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
- C. S. Lewis
Bullshit. Slavery was practiced worldwide for thousands of years. African tribal leaders eagerly sold slaves to white traders and slavery was practiced all over the African continent before any European set foot on it. Central and South American pre-contact empires practiced slavery - including the Aztecs, who slaughtered their slaves alive in blood sacrifice and then wore their skins ritualistically - and slavery was common in Asia and a way of life in the Middle East. In fact, it still is in the Muslim world. The last nations to legally abolish slavery were North African and Islamic republics - most recently, Mauritania, which only made a token and unenforceable gesture. Syria is even backsliding and there are reports of open slave markets.
In contrast, America sent hundreds of thousands of men to die fighting the southern secessionists in order to stop the institution in our nation.
So fuck you and your "peculiar institution" shit, and fuck you for bringing bullshit subjectivist postmodern identity politics racism to coding.
What motivation exceeds being polite?
Backwards compatibility and consistency? Besides, if we're talking about pliable minds here, how difficult is it to realize that two words can be describing to separate concepts that only bear superficial similarities and so can be offensive or uncomfortable in one context, and inoffensive in another.
In the field of medicine, people renamed a whole bunch of disorders (e.g. Aspergers) because they were named after Nazis. Nobody threw this big of a tantrum.
Why can't the other side of this argument ...
Ask them.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Just add to the documentation at the beginning a disclaimer:
All servers outlined within this document are consenting and mature and this is a voluntary arrangement as part of a healthy relationship. Any mention of inhumane things are role-play only.
... snowflake ...
You're why all this matters.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Is anyone working out how on earth we are going to define cable connectors once we drop the traditional male-female only configurations and allow the full range of modern relationships?
I would take it step further. The Bible is really speaking to slaves not their masters. Its not an endorsement of slavery at all its more saying that your condition of slavery is worldly but you remain holy.
Your true master is the Lord, like your earthly master it he who will judge you both and your path to salvation is thru Christ all the same. Its more conciliatory than anything else; an assurance your place in the divine kingdom does not reflect your place in earthly ones.
Or you could look at it as really really cynical way to keep the plebs in line; however given the author is a prisoner facing execution; I for one will go with sincere.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
sadly that isnt the truth.
Papa john got fired for simply stating a (maybe true maybe not) fact that someone else said n#@$r. rosseane made a joke that was misconstrued as racist when it wasnt and banished from tv. Thats political correctness. AKA fascism
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Well no, the problem isn't really the hierarchy, it's the implications of the hierarchy.
This naming problem was very current for me. I've developed some code where one code module calls another. It's explicitly parallel code and for reasons of call ordering, the parallelism, and the relationship of the modules to each other, indicating a hierarchy was useful. I considered using terms like Master/Servant, Master/Slave, etc. but I wound up using Parent/Child instead.
In code there are no moral implications to this stuff, and you get better code quality if you use terms that are clear.
However I've often felt that our feelings about hierarchies are really the issue here. It's very competitive and modern to assume that an upper level in a hierarchy is automatically better than a lower level. In human societies there are clearly some benefits (OK, a lot of benefits) to having a higher status, higher education, more money, better job, all that stuff.
Why though, do we project all those feelings about status on to everything else? Is a whale better than a krill because the whale eats krill? Is a plant that grows on a mountain better than a plant that grows in a valley? Is the Sun better than the Earth because there's only one Sun in the solar system but multiple planets, and the planets orbit around the Sun? Yes, I know all about gravitational barycenters, you don't need to go there.
because everyone is offended at things, we should not ban everything because some individuals might be intentionally offended at it. south park covered this in their x mas special in season 3 or so.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Yes, this is really what the world is coming to.
I work at a place that has been around for a while. Back in the 80's they had a recording of Tarzan (ah, ahuhoh aaaah!) that they'd play over the intercom to signal to everyone "hey, it's lunch time!"
Everyone thought it was funny for a while and then forgot about it.
Got a round of new-hires recently... one of them discovered this old recording, and played it by accident. Most people got a laugh and thought nothing of it, but of course, someone complained that it was racially insensitive.
In the field of medicine, people renamed a whole bunch of disorders (e.g. Aspergers) because they were named after Nazis. Nobody threw this big of a tantrum.
I present the medical term retarded as a counter example of people throwing a fit over medical terms. If you like there's a great article about the silliness of appeasing the easily offended as the new words then become offenders themselves. https://medium.com/s/story/the...
But you don't deny that you were completely inaccurate as to the term "their own people". The question is whether your knowledge of history is incorrect or have a bias in claiming Africans from different tribes are the same people. It boils down to whether you are wrong or racist.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
If you fork your children, you must sleep on their zombies when they die.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
So when I whip my slave drive, you mean I'm doing it wrong?
While we are at this, when will the sexist man command be renamed?..
I'd say, let's name it doc, but that's not very egalitarian either, as it implies a level of education unattainable to so many of the less fortunate. Plus, to some it also invokes the horribly racist imagery of Looney Tunes.
If you've read this far and aren't outraged, you are a racist too — buy some racism credits to atone for the incorrect thoughts.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
There may be a point you're missing, so let me spell it out for you: Black people who are alive today are not the same people who experienced Black slavery in America. When they claim they're the same people, they're guilty the same fallacy you're pointing out in my comment. If I'm wrong, so are they, and it needs to be left in the past where it belongs. Yes, I was inaccurate. On purpose. For a reason.
Keep it in history books, discuss it, make sure people understand why it was wrong so it doens't happen again, then move on. Anything else just perpetuates racism.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I am so moved by such a brave gesture that I have decided to stop referring to monopolies, capital, big companies, etc. as my slaves. From now on, I will always call them my disgusting little bitches. Any disgusting little bitch feeling offended by that comparison should immediately contact me such that I can come up with an even better alternative. LOL.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
In other news, O'Reilly Media announced today that a 50'000 copy print run of the 5th edition of 'Python In a Nutshell' will be destroyed by burning. The 1381-pages book of is a revised and extended edition of a standard textbook on a popular programming language.
A spokesperson of the publisher cited '465 references to sexist and offensive terms' in the book, including 'invalid', 'master', 'slave', 'string' etc. 'Also, we have received complaints from animal rights activists who opposed keeping large snakes in nutshells because it discriminates against individuals with an allergy', she said.
'The books are made from organic paper recycled 3 times, so there will be very little carbons set free by the burning. The remaining unavoidable emissions will be offset by a generous donation to myclimate', she said.
The quote (whoever Niel Gaiman is) amounts to "Political correctness is simply treating other people with respect", and it is a bullshit argument from you, rsilvergun.
Because the computing (and engineering in general) concepts of "master" and "slave" aren't disrespectful to any person. Once again, you've posted crap — and are being called on it. Remember to logout.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
SJW/Sane
The problem is that words change. It's like using "gay" to mean "happy" these days--you just don't do it if you want to be clear about what you're saying. There's no need to use a confusing 19th century racist's euphemism when we have perfectly ordinary words that convey the same meaning clearly without ambiguity. Also, we should be against *all* slavery (including that in Qatar, SA, etc.) not just the slavery that happened in America, right? It's odd that it's like they're calling out that only the slavery in America was bad enough to care about and we don't want to accidentally imply that we give a crap about sex slaves in the middle east. I'm sure that's not their intent, but it's already weird that they're reaching back to a 19th century racist's euphemisms.
EDIT: Also, what's with Slashdot? It's giving me the captcha "lynched" for this. Really Slashdot?
We should ban "ciao" as well since it's just short for "schiavo" which means slave
JFC....when will the political correctness stupid shit just die??
Probably never. Whether that is a good thing or not depends on the circumstances. Some of it is legitimate calling to task of bad behavior. Many other bits are needless over reactions to jokes or other innocuous statements. For example it a political comedian like Bill Mahrer shows up on your college campus, lighten the fuck up and recognize a joke for what it is.
For goodness sakes...slavery ended a LONG time ago, get over it...move on.
Tell that to anyone who grew up prior to 1964. Just because slavery was officially ended in the US by the Civil War, doesn't mean everything suddenly became fair and equal or that we aren't feeling the effects of it even today. Furthermore there is still an active slave trade going on today. Just because it isn't legal doesn't mean it doesn't still happen. There are an estimated 20-70 million slaves in the world TODAY. No need to get triggered over just the term but let's not pretend it isn't a real thing.
These terms have nothing to do with slavery in any country.
That's simply not true. The terms did not appear out of thin air. They having nothing to do with specific instances of slavery but they unquestionably reference the practice. Same with references to male and female gender connector or terminals which has a clearly sexual origin for the term. Again, we don't have to get all triggered about it but you can't deny the origin of the term. That said if we have an alternative term available (and we do) do we really need to actively use ones that reference reprehensible or needlessly graphic practices?
In fact, just this week I went to the mechanic to get my car fixed, and to my disbelief he told me that my "slave cylinder" (!) needed to be replaced. Obviously I screamed at him for perpetuating a privileged white male supremacist ideology, and I'm now searching for a nonbinary-gender mechanic of color who has a more inclusive attitude regarding hydraulics.
Toughen up you nutless pansies. Life is offensive. Somewhere some pussy decided that he wanted to flit through life believing skittlez fall from everyone's ass. It don't work that way. Fuck you.
When society ends and the veneer of civility is over you will the first food. Have fun with that.
(between global warming and the loss of fresh water, we're maybe 30 years from complete collapse)
Looking at the pull requests, it's a whole lot more counterproductive to bitch and moan about it than the changes themselves.
The one possible exception is libregrtest changes a command line argument name. This seems like poor form to me, but maybe the usage of that utility is such that it can be ok, I've never interacted with it. Nothing else changes actual code nor does it modify documentation in a way to be inconsistent with the associated code or related code/documentation.
The pty request would have been bad, but that was not accepted.
If it contained API or script breaking changes for the sake of these sensibilities, that would be bad. As it stands, master/slave in human terms can create needlessly uncomfortable situations, and it doesn't seem such a bad idea to step away from that as compatibility and clear documentation permits. If alternative terms were less descriptive, that would be one thing, but here, it seems harmless. It may seem a bit needless, but that's the business of the submitter and reviewers, and people rolling their eyes at the change have created a whole lot more grief than the requested change ever would.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Can we change "aborted" to "murdered", or vice-versa?
Rename slave to anything you want.
My choice would be "employee."
Instead of focusing on fixing bugs or improving software, they devote energy on these ineffectual crusades. Also, systemd.
The relationship between subsystems on a bus is most definitely NOT parent-child - which may be appropriate for (example) software tasks.
When the bus master tells you to jump, it tells you when and how high. I do not want my peripheral subsystems being incited to rise up against their masters just because Americans have linguistic problems.
This is not a case for re-education: some people need to be sent to an educational system in the first place.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
I agree master-slave is problematic, but what are you going to use in place?
There are almost countless alternatives available. Seriously, you can't think of any?
Do they really want to open this can of worms?
I think they are trying to close a can of worms. Since we have alternative terms available, why do we need to use ones that explicitly reference one of the most reprehensible practices of our species?
1. Uses idiotic control structures based on white space which greatly impedes vision impaired folks from using it. Plus, screw telling me how to format my code. That's a style issue.
2. Python3 performance is mostly inferior. Look how it performs even versus PHP (which Python coders seem to feel superior to - but they both suck).
3. Python leadership seems more concerned with SJW issues than coding. That's the perception when folks see shit like this.
4. The "feature" to mix spaces and tabs causes hella confusion around whether one white space or one tab is a bigger indent.
5. Coding in Python often requires hanging out with Python coders who are often myopic, technically underweight, and generally inexperienced and annoying.
Save yourself some heartache, don't worry about the SJW issues in Python, and pick a superior language. There is a long list to choose from.
Idiotic quote... political correctness has absolutely nothing to do with respect and you'd have to be an idiot to think it does. Furthermore, the terms master and slave are in absolutely no manner disrespectful to someone, unless of course you're whipping someone telling them they're a slave and you're their master.
Python programmers with a weakness for rude graffiti are being asked to use "pee-pee" and "vajay-jay" during all future midnight wall art projects.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
In most of the world, regardless of civilised or not, slavery is not connected with race, and in some countries is still going on.
The above is correct. It has also been discussed elsewhere in the thread.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Why is it problematic?
Because it's not necessary and the terms carry a lot of racial baggage at least in the US.
Because it perfectly describes the relationship between the devices?
Because it is not the only means to perfectly describe the relationship between the devices. Other terms work just as well so why use the one with all sorts of needless baggage?
With all due respect to the USA, you need to get over that shit.
I'm sure we will when the effects of our history stop affecting modern life. Racism is still a very real thing and so is slavery. It's fine to acknowledge the reality of these behaviors but we don't need to normalize them or pretend that they aren't the horrifying things they actually are. That said, if you actually get triggered over the terms in that context then you probably need to lighten the fuck up.
It's funny to see so much bickering and discussion over a bunch of bullshit. Why not be bold like Apple and just make up new words for this made up problem? None of the suggestions make any sense (except dom/sub) and sorta highlights that the operation of a computer utilizes the master and space dunamic, and that's just how the system is set up and works well.
How about this, quit being a bunch of SJW babies who can't write compilable code and just create an entirely new OS model. Maybe one where all processes have positive nice, all of them get equal system resources, and none of the processes will kill other processes.
It's kinda obvious that some people are uncomfortable with the terminology.
I bet these people are white people who have have declared themselves to be the preemptive language police representatives for other races, cultures, and abilities.
Kinda of like decades ago when social workers angd other bleeding hearts pushed to change the terms deaf & blind to hearing & seeing impaired because they thought they were offensive, yet nobody asked the actual deaf and blind if they wanted the change and most of them were ok with the old terms.
Or similar to a video showing some antifa face-covered jerk speaking to a 99% white antifa protest crowd speaking about the oppression of black people, and then a couple black bystanders that were standing nearby couldn't take it anymore and get in front of the crowd and start yelling to them something like 'you don't speak for me. Dont put words in my mouth. Don't tell me what I want when you don't even know me." In 10 seconds the antifa crowd fell silent...priceless!
When people speak for others they mostly do it for their own selfish reasons.
Perhaps we should rename Python to Bunny.
Obviously Python developers have a tremendous guilt complex over their decision to make leading White space important. They must atone.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I don't think that argument flies. It's not so comparable to the old "know your place", as it's all about going out of your way to find new reasons to find fault with people, behaviours, situations, laws of nature, etc. Not that surprising because "social justice" ultimately comes from "critical theory", which is neither critical in the constructive sense nor any sort of theory, but all about writing (pseudo)scientific papers that are really nothing but exercises in finding fault with whatever subject caught your ire this time. The entire movement is nothing but "you're wrong!" with ever more ludicrous lists of becauses attached. With the straight white male as the default target, but it's not called the circular firing squad for nothing.
Anyway, back to python and guido's gaffe.
I for me note that it's again some redhat employee that's doing this, marking them as a SJW shithole company, just like google.
by people being offende by this. Please consider me and my offendedness.
King and pawns, no not Black and White :D And yea, when the entire world is one society shit like this will just keep coming back up. Someone somewhere will always be offended by something, eventually the entire world will be boring beige with no other choices, until beige offends someone...
I find the name "Python" to be offensive. It should be renamed to something like "air river" or "cosmic dust".
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I have no problem with master and slave used to define relationships of subsystems, but here are a few terms that should be reverted:
"makers" -- They're hobbyists.
"life hack" -- a useful tip
"shield" -- Why the heck did this term come to replace the phrase "daughter board"?
"ends" -- Connectors. Seriously, I bought some cable from a guy once and he asked if I wanted the "ends." The what? "The ends. The ends for the cable." At the time I had worked with electronics for 25+ years and had never heard that term used to describe a connector.
But at least now when I hear that a "maker" has a "life hack" on how to attach the "ends" to his "shield" I know what the hell he or she is talking about. Now I just need to figure out if that shield is the parent or child.
People, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why don't you all insulted-for-other-people-assholes go buy an island and move there.
Whait and Neigger
Considering we still do slavery, seems premature to me:
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
That's exactly the equivalent of lumping Canadians and citizens of the USA together, and claiming that they too are "all the same people."
No it's not. It's quite similar to saying that the citizens of two towns a few miles apart are the same people, and most would find that to be a reasonably accurate statement.
Try that in a crowd of Canadians at your next opportunity, and see how they react.
Funnily enough, I have been in that situation (I wasn't the one who said it, but I was there). The general consensus was that for most practical purposes (politics being a notable exception), it was the truth.
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What about old hard drives, you had a master/slave. You HAD to have a master to have a slave.. So.. What other language could be used to get the same one to many relationship, where a slave is not a slave by definition unless it has a master?
You're assuming 'politeness' here, is the correct path forward on this particular topic.
To note, it is not.
The more appropriate path forward, and the historians, sociologists, and psychologists would agree, by degrading a word of its power through use, hastens it's ability to triumph over the events that be-smudged it in the first place.
To point: apparently the word 'cunt' in Australia, possibly England, is rather normal in usage.
However the word 'cunt' in America, is often seldom said in even familiar company, and carries a starkly negative connotation.
Same word, different meanings, different cultures, and different interpretations.
Buy again, we must 'cleanse' language from use, lest we offend people.
With all due respect sir, get bent. You aren't helping this particular problem.
Was going to say go F*#& yourself, but that would be impolite.
But you don't deny that you were completely inaccurate as to the term "their own people".
He didn't deny he's purple, either. Doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may wish it.
The question is whether your knowledge of history is incorrect or have a bias in claiming Africans from different tribes are the same people.
Oh, someone is definitely biased here. And concerning knowledge of history, I'd say your username is extremely appropriate.
It boils down to whether you are wrong or racist.
And you have managed to be both. Congrats!
Ok, that is BY FAR the best alternative I have seen. It is clearly the winner. I plan to use that and confuse many people going forward, thanks!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yeah, it is time to boycott a language where political correctness trumps technical merit -- especially if the same language enforces whitespace bondage&discipline. So drop Python, we welcome you on the Perl side!
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 21:16)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
It just never stops. Everything... everything is offensive! For the love of god, the filter belongs in their ear and not in every emitter of utterances in the world.
Working on pornhub child 12 today, should be ready for the parent to use later today.
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
Top and Bottom.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
...that does nothing to advance the rights of underprivileged processes. Such processes will still be spawned, controlled, and destroyed at the whims of whatever "parent", "leader", or "primary" runs their lives. Even if their "master" dies the highest state they can hope to achieve is to become a zombie child of some all knowing PID.
Until processes achieve the right to choose their priority, run level, and host, these semantic patches are for nought.
It was practiced thousands of years before the US existed; and still exists in many places today.
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin,
Actually I'm pretty certain slavery is still practiced in most if not all nations - just without the benefit of being legal.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
I just slaved my blackbox jazz kit to my white Sonos hub. Am I in trouble now?
There are numerous alternatives in common use: ...
Client & Server
Command & Control
yet somehow it's "America's peculiar institution".
LoL, this reminds me:
I was once told by someone that the term 'black hat' for hackers sounded racist.
In most of the world, regardless of civilised or not, slavery is not connected with race, and in some countries is still going on.
Sure it is, perhaps not deliberately, but it's associated and that's a kind of connection. Some races are disproportionately targeted for slavery because they are easier to target.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I vote that we get rid of the term male/female for electrical plugs, plumbing parts, etc.
Lesbians find that term particularly offensive since they don't like male parts being placed into any part of a female receptacle.
Male homosexuals don't like that term as they prefer to place their male parts only into locations they can relate to.
... snowflake ...
You're why all this matters.
... says "CaptainDork!"
There's offensive words all over the place, aren't there?
"words remind some people of America's peculiar institution"...
I'm pretty sure slavery existed before America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Africa
Perhaps we should rename "pull requests" to "mother may I"...no wait, what if I don't have a mother...?
A simpering apologist crock of shit by those who have been intimidated by the "Church of the perpetually Offended"
The hardware people are always talking about "male" and "female" connectors. (Ick!)
We need to change this.
Where do I submit a pull request?
You know when I read this I was thinking it sounds great. I mean it isn't going to change much but maybe doing something small can help draw attention to the masses of people suffering from modern slavery.
Then I came here and read the mass of Alt-white hate messages that sit and attack Black people. It was then I realized how important these little things are. It isn't about political correctness but correctness. For too long we have tried to ignore the hate in our own communities. We have either ignored it or excused it. It is time those of us that realize the value of human life start to take a stand. Political correctness is a cop out. A modern way of excusing racism like the arguments made that Jim Crow laws we're just about freedom of choice. It's all BS and we need to speak up more about it.
Well for SPI interfaces that normally use MISO (Master In Slave Out) and MOSI (Master Out Slave In) I propose we start using Leader In Follower Out (LIFO) and Follower In Leader Out (FILO) . . . but if ayone can come up with a way of doing it that abbreviates to LIPO and FIDO, then I'm in!
I know,
Chief / Indian. :) Captcha appropriate: scouting
You've got to be kidding... This is just going too far. If people are offended by terminology that has been in use for a very long time, and has absolutely nothing to do with actual slavery. Go get a life.
Typical Left wing cunts, can't even have a proper discussion because they KNOW this shit is behond retarded.
> https://bugs.python.org/issue34605
msg324995 - (view) Author: Guido van Rossum (gvanrossum) * Date: 2018-09-11 06:33
I'm closing this now. Three out of four of Victor's PRs have been merged. The fourth one should not be merged because it reflects the underlying terminology of UNIX ptys. There's a remaining quibble about "pliant children" -> "helpers" but that can be dealt with as a follow-up PR without keeping this discussion open.
msg325094 - (view) Author: miss-islington (miss-islington) Date: 2018-09-11 23:40
New changeset fa7dfae3171914f91d629a64c6e829788b485b06 by Miss Islington (bot) (Victor Stinner) in branch 'master':
bpo-34605: Replace "pliant children" with "helpers" (GH-9195)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/fa7dfae3171914f91d629a64c6e829788b485b06
msg325241 - (view) Author: Gabriel Marko (suic) * Date: 2018-09-13 12:24
The discussion under GH PRs is now censored. What will be the next level?
msg325247 - (view) Author: Mariatta Wijaya (Mariatta) * Date: 2018-09-13 14:16
No further discussion needed. This issue has been closed and resolved. Thanks Victor for the PRs.
As with any hardship, the effects will last as long as those affected allow them to last. I personally know many Black people who've gotten over it and moved on to become productive members of society. Most of them are doing quite well for themselves, many are doing better than I am. And good for them, having overcome such an atrocity is a real show of strength and integrity.
If only you knew the shit I've actually experienced in my lifetime... that I also have moved on from. But that's not the point. The point is it's in the past and you decide how much the past affects you. Regardless of race.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Dom and Sub seem to make the most sense.
and your post just proved his point for him.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
How about the transgendered?
How about the bi-sexual?
Rant incoming - "remind some people of America's peculiar institution" - Is that a joke? Nothing about slavery is special or exclusive to America and, in reality, slavery as a whole was a practice for a shorter period of time in the US than in nearly any other nation. Beyond that, no one alive today in this country has been a slave or was born to a slave... no one in this country today owned a slave or was born to a slave owner. You're getting your snowflakey panties in a knot over some shit that, at best, might have applied to your grandparents but which, more likely, has no bearing on you whatsoever. My great grandmother was LYNCHED in Mississippi... strung up on a tree and hung until dead by democrats in white hoods because she was black woman who dared to speak her mind. Today, my best friend's last name is Lynch... and that produces ZERO emotion in me because the two are not remotely related. I'm too busy trying to make tomorrow better than yesterday and working to build a future for my children to spend energy crying about how bad things were four generations ago. My ancestors didn't cast off their chains so that their descendants could spend their lives as victims, slaves to a political culture bent upon convincing us that our skin is holding us back... and my grand parents didn't risk their lives in protest, fighting for equality so that their descendants could be nothing but pawns for a politically motivated culture of dependence. I was raised with the clear understanding that, for generations, the men and women of my family fought to be AMERICANS not to be given something for their color or their ancestors hardships. Like the white colonists who fought to free themselves from the chains of England, my family fought to free themselves from the chains of our color... not to be viewed as "african" Americans... to be Americans, period. My color will never be my crutch... Words are not your enemy, "whitey" is not the enemy... The enemy is the people who've gained and maintain power through telling us all the the things we can't be or can't do because of our color. The people who tell us we need handouts because we're not capable of getting out of the ghetto on our own. I'm here to tell you, as a black man who was raised in one of the poorest and most violent projects this country has ever know... YOU CAN DO IT. Stop letting politicians tell you who hates you and how many things you can't do and get the fuck out of your ghetto and go do those things, never stop trying. Stop letting people appeal to your blackness to tell you you're a victim... fuck nike and kneeling, fuck Roseanna getting fired for making monkey jokes, fuck race baiting so called community leaders buying your loyalty through shared outrage... stop celebrating the worst of us like the Trayvon's and Mike Browns and telling your kids they were victims of their race when they were victims of nothing but the consequences of bad life choices. Celebrate the Daniel Hale Williams and the Ben Carsons of our people, celebrate the mechanic down the road who's raising his kids working hard instead of drinking on the block with the boys... lace up your boots, go to work, and live your life to make your kids' lives better and I promise you're gonna find that there's not nearly as much racism and hate out there as the news wants to tell you there is. And to all my young brothers out there, black white or otherwise, if you're in a bad situation... THINK your way out of it. If you have no other options, don't become another ghetto casualty fighting over nothing... go join the Marine's and fight for something worth dying for, the green weenie fucks every color equally and when the bullets start flying I promise you won't be thinking about whether the man watching your six is white or black, only that he's your brother and you know he'd die for you as you'd die for him. THAT'S how we build a better tomorrow... not by crying over words. ./endrant
I find "python" to be offensive. Pythons are snakes, and they remind me of:
1. Male-dominated society---especially in computer science.
2. Original sin
3. Men's penises
thats kinda the point hes making
Master and slave today in a computer use has nothing to do with slavery in america or the rest of the world.
in other words, get over it
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
This will be burried by the thread but for future reference, this shouldn't have happened for the simple reason the PR was _NOT FUCKING VETTED_. The same author submitted the pull and merged it wthout discussion. "He", bypassed the entire change management process for this and did so within minutes..
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/9101
I still can't believe this even happened.
Doesn't robot mean slave in Polish or something? Better stop using that term. Especially if the robots become sentient - they probably won't appreciate it.
- What is *******?
- No one knows what it is, but it's provocative!
There are several technical terms already used in similar contexts, like:
- initiator, target
- caller, callee
- requester, responder
- server, client
Near as I can tell, the way these decisions are made, is to follow this complicated algorithm:
1) Is anyone complaining (and through effective channels, where "effective" means that your time is now getting used)?
If yes, then change the term, no matter how ridiculous and meaningless it is. Then the princess will stop complaining and you can get back to work on not-stupid things.
If no, then stubbornly stick to your guns .. as though for some reason you actually gave a fuck about what terms were used. "It will be 'parent' and I will fight to the dea--ooh, I see a way to make this library function 2% faster. Sorry, what were we talking about again?"
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Also, we need to rename USB SS (Super Speed) for being offensive.
I'm trying to keep this as neutrally worded as possible but this angers me a lot. Words have multiple definitions and mean different things in different contexts. Anyone who can't understand that, is literally too incompetent to survive by themselves and they need a grown-up to explain this concept to them as soon as possible. Definitions for words are not a value judgement. There is no end to this madness. Do we get rid of "kill" because in some definitions and contexts it might mean the violent murder of a person, God forbid, even a historically oppressed minority? What about "mount"? In some context that could be a term meaning the forcible action of sex upon someone who might not be consenting. It is insane to ignore the obvious context of words and try to be offended by the worst possible context. Master/Slave makes perfect sense in many of these cases, as it implies one item is controlling another. Same as parent/child describes a certain hierarchy in some contexts. It is not making a judgement call about human interpersonal relationships, just because that's another definition/context.
what's 'correct' about referring to say a secondary instance of a database as a 'slave'?
You are conflating slavery with kidnapping.
Sure, slavery may involve kidnapping, but that does not make kidnapping synonymous with slavery. They are two separate atrocities, with the latter not being a requirement for the former.
In fact, not too far above the little verse you picked out are explicit instructions on how to take and deal with slaves based on male or female, Jewish or heathen, single or married, etc.
There are no mental gymnastics one can do to justify owning other people, no mental gymnastics that can paint the Abrahamic god as nothing more than a psychotic immoral Bronze Age monster.
This space unintentionally left blank.
Master/Slave has never been and never will be a good metaphor for Independent/Dependent components. There is a always a better name that conveys the relationship better than Master/Slave. Has nothing to do with whether or not it is politically correct. It's simply a terrible metaphor to begin with and does not convey useful information about how the components relate to one another.
Nothing wrong with calling a computer a slave.
Abort, penetration, hard/floppy, coupling, male/female, motherboard and even parent are loaded with potential to offend.
'Dom' and 'sub' are perfect replacements, depending on your age, and how you feel about operator overloading.
[*] Dom and sub remind me of nothing else in the short history of computer science (well, not since the late seventies where we deliberately truncated every word and identifier in our source code down to two or three or four letters to save precious kb of disk space).
Yeah, anglo-saxons are the worst, aren't they? Selling their own people into slavery.
C should remove pointers. It is offensive!
Must be nice to have so much free time that these are the things one worries about. Absolutely mind-boggling.
It's almost like language changes over time...
They are just bad analogies when your think about it.
In practice we are talking about a List and Details for data contexts or Manager Worker for object situation.
That alone should be good enough reason.
"the prisoners with jobs?" Why would I not like "mainframe?"
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Also: can you find people offended for legitemate reasons (I was a slave for 20 years and now I'm an IT guy but this nomenclature always reminds me of my years as a slave!) or just people who are offended on behalf of others (because those others are too $something to be offended for themselves)?
Welp, time to stop using Python.
... is I believe the correct expression to use.
Waste of time, you stupid butt hurt snow flakes need to grow some tougher skin. We are talking about inanimate objects, where master and slave use the literal meaning of the words, which in context is easy to understand. We will end up with 100 different teams that mean the same thing. Pussies
The obvious solution is either:
Commissar and Serf or Pig and Equal.
After all, we all wish to bath in the warm happiness of National Socialism.
Organic grassroots morphing of language is okay.
Changing of language through force and threats of force is not okay.
Of course, you're probably the same type of fool that can't see how it's "force" or "threats" when someone invokes supposed politeness or sensitivity or diversity as a rationale while the same people simultaneously engage in shaming, brigading, harassing, doxxing, and even outright threatening with harm of anyone who dares to disagree. There ain't no rest for the triggered.
What do you think Slavs have to say about it?
Because the people that are 'uncomfortable with the terminology' are 'worse than useless to the project'. They're not there because of any technical abilities, they actually don't have anything useful to contribute, so they stir this up to create a problem that they think they can contribute to solving, under the delusion this advances the project.
In reality, the project would be better off if these people would leave it alone. They're worse than useless because they actually take the project away from its goals - offsetting the value of actual technical experts.
(It's a technical project, not an art project.)
People are essentially slaves to their phones now so I propose: Phone (master) and Human (slave).
Holy shit they are both nìggers you stupid fucking nìgger.
Nobody gives a fuck how you feel about words you faggt bitch.
... we should replace "master" with "capitalist"
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
MSmash Why is this news for nerdz???
stupid bitch!!!--
people are bored, if this was a real issue, the ACLU would have been alover this from the get-go.
MeeToo fuckers..
nothing better to do, but create bullshit for bullshit.
Why the Fuck does any one care but Bored people?
Not to be Racially insensitive, but are there any "BLACK" people involved in this decision? I want to see the imperrative evidence this has to happen. I want to know, to what degree does this usage of terms detracts ANY ONE?
We try to teach tolerance of others, and yet this just personifies a proposed fact that SOME people CANNOT Tollerate Others. So, that means we have to change the world around them so "they can fit in" Bullshit!
These are passive/aggressive fuckers at their best..
That make u all warm and fuzzy on the inside bitch?
"click-bait"
I think we should also stop referring to zombie processes and Unix demons. The "kill" command should be renamed to "euthanize", too.
And don't get me started on male and female connectors, and gender changers.
Getting all burred up over Master/Slave terminology in programming languages that has nothing to do with human trafficking and slavery. Meanwhile you're still buying clothing from Kmart, Target and friends which are demonstrably produced from human slavery.
We're talking about America, so no. Slavery as it was practiced in colonial America no longer exists here. There may be prison chain gangs, there may be hoes locked up in basements, and there may be mistreated Mexican bean pickers, but there are no plantations with bunk houses full of negros being whipped, hotboxed, and raped on a regular basis. There is no LEGAL ownership of persons.
Your false equivocating bullshit is stupid and you should feel stupid for being stupid.
It is a well written piece, backed by reasoned arguments, but the conclusion is not obviously correct. When a word's primary use is an insult, it is not surprising that someone does not take kindly to a doctor using the term in a technically correct but unfamiliar usage.
Rehabilitating words does not seem like an easy thing. Would we have good examples of success there?
YOU don't know much. You think America's Civil War was the only civil war in the entire fucking world? You either don't know history, you can't read and comprehend, or you willfully deceive people over this subject.
And if you are referring to the American Civil War, then YES it was over slavery. It's in the Articles of Confederation, it's in every states' declarations of secession, the Confederate president Jefferson Davis said so multiple times.
All of this stuff I just bitched at you about, you already know. I, personally, call you out for it and have been for years. I see I'm not the only one. Out of the list of possible reasons for your ignorance I outlined above, the most likely answer is "you willfully deceive people over this subject."
Racists gonna race
You said "Zero Prohibitions". I found one. I can't tell if you're simply a troll or can't finish the sentence which contains ..."sell him", which is more than simply kidnapping. Don't you think?
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Even if this was a good idea, it wont change the hard truth: YES WE ACTUALLY DID THE SLAVERY BIT! Ooops!
These fucking idiots would have line up in droves for Hitler Yugen backin the day. Thats right, im calling SJWs, PC thinkers and fucking historical revisionists the new fascists, because they have no problem forcing their opinion on others, because they believe their cause to be just. THEY ALL FUCKING DO, IDIOTS!
This is beyond stupid. Words fail just how f@$#!ing stupid this is. Does the OSS community have anything better to do than worry about this?
MSmash Why is this news for nerdz???
stupid bitch!!!--
people are bored, if this was a real issue, the ACLU would have been alover this from the get-go.
MeeToo fuckers..
nothing better to do, but create bullshit for bullshit.
Why the Fuck does any one care but Bored people?
Not to be Racially insensitive, but are there any "BLACK" people involved in this decision? I want to see the imperrative evidence this has to happen. I want to know, to what degree does this usage of terms detracts ANY ONE?
We try to teach tolerance of others, and yet this just personifies a proposed fact that SOME people CANNOT Tollerate Others. So, that means we have to change the world around them so "they can fit in" Bullshit!
These are passive/aggressive fuckers at their best..
That make u all warm and fuzzy on the inside bitch?
"click-bait"
aside from the coarse language, these are valid points, why is this not modded +1?
Unless,
MsMash, does the truth cut to deep?
things to ponder..
The bible actively supports slavery, and has clear instructions how and when to beat your slaves, free them etc. When can we expect a full revision of the bible?
When I was 'lad we learned
0 Black
1 Bastards brown
2 Raped red
3 Our orange
4 Young young
5 Girls green
6 But blue
7 Violet
8 Gave grey
9 Willingly white
I suspect they don't teach that any more, although I can still remember it.
Maybe if the resister codes could be incorporated into the Python docs the other issues would be forgotten about!
(I think most people just though it was a bit of fun, and not nasty at all. But it is easy to take offense at anything if you try hard enough.)
Like your boss became your business partner, let us call them computing partners, so that the existing hierachy is not visible anymore in the name, and nobody is offended.
Seriously, the master/slave naming was not appropriate, because both computer slave and mater do work. That is a difference from historic human master and slave, where only the slave does work.
So does this mean since I have a Masters Degree that has to change? Or I am a Master at Coding, so now that has to change, Master Chef has to change! So Audio Slave the band is done, I guess my IDE devices can no longer work. This shit has to stop this is completely out of control!!!
I hope we can substitute suitable alternative terms promptly. The obvious choice would be bourgeois and proletariat.
I hope they are also going to address the orphan issue.
in law with rights given to slave holders. Yes, I know there's plenty of defacto slavery (we've brought it back here in the states by forcing prisoners and illegal aliens to work) but that's not the same has having the official government legally recognize slavery.
America was the last country on planet earth to formally disavow slavery.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Here is some history: America was not the only nation to have slaves. Slavers in the Americas bought the slaves from the African slavers. Also, pirates from Africa and the Middle East would to raid coastal villages in Scandinavia and Europe to capture white slaves for the mid-east slave markets.
Phil was an asshole. If he had an IQ north of room temperature, he knew the common nomenclature inherent to his job and knew goddamn well that your statement incorporating it had fuck all to do with the death of his child. He pretended not to get that in order to service his need for attention, forcing you to be a part of his psychodrama. What a shitheel.
If you are the proverbial Phil getting butthurt over this comment, consider this approach instead: "Hey [friend/family/coworker name] I'm having a hard time with things and need to talk to someone about what's going on in my head. Would you hear me out?" You don't passive-aggressively make them the target of misplaced anger.
This is something key. People cannot be offended. They must choose to be offended. Just like I can not be insulted. I must choose to be insulted.
If someone says something there are many possible reactions.
I can choose to be insulted.
I can choose to feel pity for their poor vocabulary.
I can choose to try and figure out what is going on to cause them to say such things.
I can choose any number of reactions. Being insulted is only one of the choices.
And I make that choice.
People need to learn that they have no control over the actions or words of others.
Only control of their reaction to them.
And if I am in a situation where I cannot make that choice, then I am not in control of my life.
If you are going to bring up the patriarchy, what about MALE- FEMALE electrical connectors?
Have you noticed how power is always take by the male from the female? Never the other way around.
This is sexist enough, without the conspicuous absence of the 31 other genders being represented.
While passive gay or lesbian cables and adaptors exist for USB, they are illegal when power is involved.
Three-way power adaptors must always be one male and two female. Electrical engineers are almost all male. Coincidence?
OK, give me a minute and let me check in the US Constitution where the right to not be offended by something is.
...looking....
...looking...
... still looking...
...yep, still more looking...
Well, after a thorough search, there is NOTHING in the US Constitution granting anybody the right NOT to be offended.
So can we let this drop whole "I'm offended and you must stop it" crap already?
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
We'll have to ask Intel to fix that NOP op code.
I find this word offensive. It was probably allowed in by the creators of k8s, as they never had, and probably won't ever witness a taint IRL.
Ooo, why is it OK to pronounce kubernetes k8s as "Kate's." that's gender association, specially with the aforementioned taint. So we can then reference "Kate's taint." probably uncool.
https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/configuration/taint-and-toleration/
firstly, people who can't differentiate the meanings of these words in these two radically different contexts probably suffer from a learning disability and should seek treatment.
secondly, lets not allow the adult world be held hostage by all these people skilled in the art of being offended.
As SJW in Chief I've been using leader and follower.
This Führer/Verehrer terminology is way too reminiscent of leadership cults and right-wing populist dictatorships. Why not use something like exploiter/worker which couldn't possibly offend anyone? ;P
So what about people who are unable to have children, will they get offended by references to 'parent'?
This has gotten out of hand, definitely.
I absolutely agree! If 800+ comments on Slashdot are indicative of anything, WE GEEKS DON'T LIKE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!
I propose we rename a lot of computer terminology to fit our own ideology. For example, instead of having "master" and "slave", how about we adopt the terms "Hitler" and "Jewish Children"? And instead of "terminating" a process, how about we "send it to Auschwitz"? I mean, those terms can't be offensive, right, because no Jew Children who died in the Holocaust are still alive, and after all it's just a computer that's doing something, we're not really killing children, right?
How about replacing "process scheduler" with "autistic savant"? Instead of "cache", how about "greedy shyster"? Instead of "chroot" or "jails", how about "nigga's second home"? Instead of "temp directory", how about "dirty whore's orifices"?
I mean, we really fucking gotta stop being so politically correct, we can't let ourselves become a nation of people who become offended at mere words.
We will erase master and slave from history book, and when that happens we can say we have eradicated the problem.
is Trump 2020
In most of the world, regardless of civilised or not, slavery is not connected with race
A little tangential, and not directly pertinent to the use of master/slave terminology in tech but ... I'm not too sure about that specific claim. Slavery is, at least connected with race in many instances. Historically, from the ancient world up to the African slave trade of the C18th, slavery was commonly imposed upon an ethnic other.
It is true that in some cultures slavery/freedom is governed, for example, by cast or by criminality, rather than by race, (or even under conditions of societal breakdown, imposed on seemingly random fellow "citizens,") but that seems more to be the exception. Slaves in Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, Scandinavia were usually either directly prisoners of war or taken from colonised peoples. Today the quasi-slavery of Phillipino workers in the middle East, the capture of sub-Saharan refugees in North Africa continue this tradition. Nor should we assume that some of the modern African slavery, which appears on the surface to be taking place between same-race parties, is entirely devoid of ethnic considerations.
Race is perhaps not invariably a factor --most obviously in modern-day sex based human trafficking --but the fact that ethnicity is, across time and geography, so very often been used to demark citizen from slave, and most especially in economies where slavery was central to lawful production (ie. unlike the illegal sex trade) suggests that race division at least facilitates slavery. It is perhaps of psychological importance, allowing the masters more easily to dehumanise the slaves, or simply to remove the fear that they too may be reduced to the condition of slavery.
I do not want my peripheral subsystems being incited to rise up against their masters
In which case you should endorse this change of terminology ... after all the worse that could happen after the name change is that your peripheral subsystems will be incited to rise up against the primary control system. ;)
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
Virtue signalling at it's finest.
In Western Europe, the whole concept of Master-Slave harks back to Roman times more than anything else.
Slavery as a racial concept is really a US-centric issue and as usual they forget the rest of the world exists and doesn't have the same cultural or historical base.
We also do jury duty. Let's see...
- you are *required* by law to be available and serve an unknown number of days every year
- your employer is NOT required to pay you your salary (they just can't fire you, but they don't have to pay you)
- you will lose vacation days
- even the Government will not pay you on your first day (why!?)
- every day you serve, you will be paid the generous amount of $15 dollars (so, food).
- you are also supposed to be proud of being allowed to serve your country
- if you fail to respond, you will appear in front of a judge and possibly go to jail
- anything else (excuses, being chosen or not) is at their discretion
Tell me how this is different from indentured servitude ?
No, they live under the shadow of the actions of a small (relative to the size of their population) but disproportionate (relative to the size of the criminal population) number of other Black people. It's unfortunate, as the majority of Black people are just like the majority of people of any other race, they just want to live peaceful, law abiding lives, but that's clearly not enough to offset the disproportionate rate of violent crime from their population.
Ask any cop, they'll tell you the same. Go ahead, cherry pick a Black cop to ask. They'll tell you the same. Based on statistics, which is why racial profiling is done. I don't agree with it; but, then, I'm not the one out there putting my life on the line every day.
As for falling behind in education, you do realize that a high school dropout can raise a kid who goes to college and graduates with a doctorate, right? When that doesn't happen, it's most often more to do with choices that were made (though I'll give a nod to the price of a college education, as well). There's no societal cause or excuse for failing to graduate high school due to one's race.
And housing? People born in the 'hood move out every single day. People of all races, mind you; and of all education levels, as well.
Employment? That one does tie in with education, but factory work has always only required a high school education; if even that. There's less of that work available today, but we're talking about "the generations where they were disadvantaged", when that work was widely available. In fact, not only was it widely available, it was commonly abundant in inner-city areas where most Black people lived at the time. Good paying jobs for hard working Americans, and the smart ones took those jobs. Assuming they stayed in school, that is.
Individual racism notwithstanding, the only people disadvantaged more than a full generation after slavery was abolished were disadvantaged by their own poor choices and/or poor upbringing. I'll grant that individual racism was a lot more prevalent back then, and is still a problem today. If you want to blame that, go right ahead, and I'll agree with you; but to keep blaming slavery? Really? That's a crutch, and it's one that won't carry you very far. As I said, I know, personally, many Black people who've given up that particular crutch and done very well for themselves; I know none who've held onto it and gone far.
Slavery isn't the problem Black people face in America today; their inability to let go of it -- at least, those of them who refuse to -- is the problem. The proof is in asking any successful Black man or woman how slavery affects them today.
That, and individual racism, which is driven at least on one side by that side's inability to let go of the past.
Ask anyone who's ever faced adversity in their life whether that adversity -- that they actually dealt with in their own life -- still affects them. Note their answers, their general state of happiness with their lives, and how successful they appear. You'll quickly put together that the people who've moved on tend to be happier and more successful than those who have not. And if people can move on from adversity they, personally, have faced, they can surely move on from adversity their great-great-great-great-great-grandparents faced over 150 years ago.
Let's focus on the more recent atrocities the Black population has faced, and fix those. M'kay? Because those are actually affecting people who are alive today and could benefit from the positive attention.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Hahahahahahahahaha. What a J.O.K.E.
Python is for snowflakes.
We now have a name for the new generation of adults. The SnowFlake Generation. Easy to offend, and overzealously willing to rewrite history for the cause of political correctness.
The world has gone crazy.
That's the brief summary of what is happening.
While at it, we shall also adopt gender neutral modifications to our language replacing he and she with they, woman with womyn, and hymen with hymyn.
They should then anathemize the word "eugenics", as it describes the process by which slaves are bred over thousands of years by the victim's religious and political masters.
Everyone using python should grasp that...
Legalized marijuana does not play good for a people minds
Let's see how the PC police react to moving the metaphor to a religious context...
Master --> Creator
Slave --> Believer
The Creator breaths life into the Believer and the Believer MUST do what the Creator commands. The Creator can zap/destroy/kill (whatever) the Believer when the Creator no longer has a need for the Believer to exist.
Thanks for such great things that can engage us between two plate form for more learning and rashly solution.
It's amazing how deeply offended and upset people get about changing some arbitrary technical terminology to some more value-neutral variants, as if there was some deep religious importance attached to keeping technical terms like master/slave.
Not that I care about either way, I'm fine with keeping master/slave and I'm fine with changing it to something else. It's just odd how politicized these debates have become nowadays, some posters almost sound as if they would burst out into tears if they cannot continue to use terms with possibly offensive connotation in official projects used by many companies and read by many people of many different cultures and backgrounds. I'm not a fan of PC either, but there is also the other extreme....
What a crock of shit.
Can you still kill them? Can they form unions? You guys are nuts.
by someone who would be called "racist" today: William Shockley. I assume that every SJW will now stop using anything using transistors, right?
Back to mechanical timers in washing machines and dishwashers, and vacuum tube electronics, right?
Target nibbers? Easy to target ... dumb as stump ... ugly as rotted jelly-beans and violent like two neez klacking . Better a feeb serve as slave than a felon as master ... eh Hoser ?
We arrived at the choice of words we use - Master-Slave - because it was the choice of words at the time which best described the relationship between two interoperating systems, or sub-assemblies, or components or whatever. I personally can't be arsed to change my historic documentation simply because some interpretation of the choice of terms has altered.
Personally, the first image that comes in to my mind when I think of the human meanings of master and slave involves a Roman centurion played by RIchard Burton and Victor Mature as a slave. I'd like to retain that image when poring over ancient tomes of logic design.
"For diversity reasons [...]"
What diversity reasons would those be?
"Why can-"
"OMFG RACIST NAZI WOMANHATER! #METOO!"
Yes, Slashdot. It's like yelling because that was my intention.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
I am a dork and I am offended by your name!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ
Captcha : Equalize
Equate people torn from their home, kidnapped across an ocean, and forced to work without pay often in deplorable conditions, treated as inhuman animals and sold as property with people who are unable to conceive children. Yup. Completely equivalent. Well done.
Nobody alive in the USA today remembers American slavery.
Lots of people alive today are living the pain of being unable to conceive or losing their parents.
No sig today...
The next logical step from here is to eliminate set theory and partitions because they might remind people of segregation. Then we'll have to get rid of TCP because somebody might sexualize connecting a client and server socket. We'll also need to stop killing processes, because killing is wrong. Administrator accounts will need to go away because they imply some people should be more privileged and everybody is entitled to equality. No more quantifying the size of files, either, since it could offend the fat and the anorexic. I'm offended by this stupidity.
morons
Similar to my suggestion? My version would have just automatically slowed the descent of the most popular stories. In contrast it appears they just restarted this one at the top of the front page.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Is it really? If so then we should relax instead and get some refreshments.
Fairy tale books are not evidence, you know?
The core meaning remains the same: political correctness is the set of behaviours that makes you acceptable to the overbearing, Orwellian authorities. The only difference is the particular set of behaviours that is required.
how long has he quit his role? a month at most.
and they call him back in... for this.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
I suffer from horrible and debilitating kinemortophobia and daemonophobia (fear of zombies, fear of daemons). Can we please remove all use of those terms from the *NIX environments, so I can go back to holding a job. Thank you.
I very much doubt ANYBODY takes genuine offence at these terms although I'm sure a few liberal arts types might feign offence. For those, the correct answer is GTFO.
Master and Slave oh noes!
Silly sexist Male and female connectors. Plug and jack are the way to go.
Wait - My wife and her friends at on time referred to used tampons as "plugs", and Jack is oh so obviously a term for masturbating.
Joking aside, The Social justice crowd merely proves that they are running out of things to wail about when "master" and "slave" must be eliminated from the lexicon.
So now what will we call the master and slave cylinder on braking systems. I have a few Master reference books that are suddenly offensive. And when Making lists, I usually have a master list that is the main reference. Who knew that those books ans lists and car braking systems offensive words specifically referenced and promoted one of America's darker chapters?
Seriously warriors, spend more time agitating about infibulation and honor killings than trying to have the tidiest and most OC room in the house.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
When the bus master tells you to jump, it tells you when and how high.
And he will tell you to sit in the back. So we need to ban the term bus as well.
I think you just agreed with the person to whom you replied. Because they have nothing to do with specific instances, they do indeed have nothing to do with slavery in any country.
Something doesn't have to reference specific instances of the practice of slavery to be an unfortunate choice of vocabulary. If there were no other words to adequately describe the technical relationship then of course clarity should win out. But the simple fact is that there are a multitude of other equally accurate terms available and in active use that could be used which don't carry the social baggage. Switching to something else is just a matter of being nice and thoughtful really.
Are some people being over sensitive? Probably. But on the other hand part of being a polite and decent human being is thinking about your own behavior and trying be empathetic towards fellow human beings. My day job is doing engineering for wire harness manufacturer and I run into the terms master/slave and male/female almost daily. I've wondered many times why we continue to use these terms when we don't need to. Parent/Child and Pin/Socket work just as well and are just as clear but with zero social baggage.
I mean, shit, if you're going to get pissed, ask why it's Master and not Mistress.
Mistress/Slave would be far more whimsical if done right though I'm not sure it really improves matters.
But there are many words that can be offensive.
Install comes from french installer which comes from dutch (or old Frankish) installen. Installen means to put the cattle in the stable or even the slaves in their cabins in Roman times. So to install is offensive slang, change it.
Command comes ultimately from Latin. It was one day used to describe the authority a slave owner had over his slaves. A slave was commanded. So command is offensive slang, change it.
Python makes use of white spaces. Why doesn't python acknowledge this rampant abuse of white privilege? What about non white spaces? This is very offensive! Python should check its privilege and should distance it self from white spaces.
When you configure a firewall you can make use of blacklists and whitelists. Why were the inventors of the firewall so offensive? Why are blacks not allowed to the network, and why do they allow all whites? This is so offensive and should be changed immediately.
Why do I have to kill processes? I don't want to be a murderer. I think it is offensive. We should invent a non offensive verb.
Who came up with the idea to trigger databases? I'm triggered by the term trigger! I no longer want to work with databases that I've to trigger against my will! I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings. Especially not a thing named Oracle. This is so offensive towards the ancient Greeks who cannot defend themselves anymore.
I think you mean "which can be associated WITH slavery,"...
Just let engineers do their thing and be happy all your shit works.
I completely agree with you. To clarify, though, I wasn't joking; I was describing what lies ahead on this slippery slope.
The level of condescension involved here is hard to underscore. I had to deal with exactly this situation at a major network corporation 20 years ago. I really don't get it. Slavery has been a blight on the human race for centuries, up till fairly recently. "Blacks" were not the only ones enslaved. Hardly. Many groups were -- and they've all gotten over it. What makes the "blacks" so special??? Stop it already. Use the terms "master" and "slave" if it makes sense to do so. I will be sure to increase my use of those terms in my own opensource projects, and if someone doesn't like it, too bad.
Ruby Neural Evolution of Augmenting Topologies
While we're at it, let's ban "male" and "female" for connectors so that we don't insult anyone.
Remember when some church group wanted to ban Unix (pre-Linux) because it had..... gasp.... DAEMONS!!!???
Okay the challenge is to add a Linux command "ymipc" that can generate even more of these things.....
And with A.I. making an appearance why not stop using 'kill' to terminate processes? Use 'signal' instead?
When people don't want to talk about it, awareness drops and ultimately this leads to ignorance of the problem at hand. Slavery is a really big problem today and frankly I'm offended that people don't want to see the words used because of some frivelous PC language crap.
Documentation is a necessary part of software.
It describes what the software is and how it operates.
Clarity in documentation is important because software is complex and any
help we can get in understanding is useful.
In programming, sometimes one piece of software control another part.
Useful gadgets that help us survive and talk about this issue use this construct.
This is good. There is nothing evil about making software this way.
English has words to describe this relationship.
Some words provide clarity in what is happening and others less so.
Choosing a word which does not clearly describe something when one exists is misleading.
This is the reverse of clarity.
The point is that this PC use comes with a real cost which might even cost lives with a bug in a critical system.
Just because this relationship was used for bad things, does not mean that the use in software is bad.
If there were another word pair to clearly describe this software relationship, it would likely become non PC as well.
So what are we to do?
At some point, there has to be a line of common sense.
Using the terms master and slave to describe a relationship that is not evil is not evil.
It does not encourage evil uses.
If fact the reverse, it encourages good uses.
The purpose of PC is to make life better.
Using PC here is reminding folks of slavery in a case where there was no such relationship.
Would life not be better if instead one embraces these words being used for something constructive without even a dream of bad stuff?
This PC path seems to put one on the course of perpetual victim, which seems the reverse of a better life.
I completely agree with you. To clarify, though, I wasn't joking; I was describing what lies ahead on this slippery slope.
It was still pretty amusing.
Let us rejoice that we can make fun of these folk!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Master - padawan?
How about Whites control/own the Blacks. Have to kill the blacks before killing the whites. If you don't kill them, they become alienated, or greys.
I'm going to complain about the use of "White space" all over the code and documentation...
Fuck it, they can't complain or maon about that when they took this shit seriously..
Should waste a ton of there time so python won't get any better, while I will just do it for shits and giggles....
Can we also ban words like "United States of America"? Because that country dropped two nuclear bombs on civilian cities and I find it very very disturbing.
Thank you for your cooperation.
We can be inclusive and we should to other religions (see religions freedom). However, wherever a religion violates human rights it has to step back. Slavery is not acceptable.
Many feminists might be offended by the reference of a Python to male genitalia. We should rename the project to something like unicorn instead
https://bugs.python.org/issue34678
"white space"
Il problema si risolve facilmente evitando di utilizzare termini anglofoni ma utilizzare altre lingue. Ad esemoi in italiano si potrebbe utilizzare Padrone e Schiavo. Oppure Maestro ed Allievo. La cosa migliore sarebbe infine usre termini latini: Servus et Dominus. Ma a questo punto ci sono tati termini informatici che potrebbero essere sostituiti con la variante latina: mus, fenestram, discus rigidum, ostium,...
Master/Slave went the way of the DoDo back when it was used "back in the day" for hard drives/hardware, etc.
Learn more here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master/slave_(technology)
even in College in the late 90's we where phasing out the use of the term, to Parent/Child or Primary/Secondary. you're almost 30 years late kids, stop bringing up old things. Who uses python anymore anyway?
I can't speak for the psychology of the humans coding with it today, but by the time this 'terminology' becomes offensive to the actual code, I strongly suspect the terms 'master' and 'slave' will be in vogue again...
There are two types of people in the world; those who believe there are two types of people, and those who don't.
That's slave talk. No need to pay it any heed.
Yes, America had an ignominious time when it allowed and some utilized slavery. We also fought a war and hundreds of thousands sacrificed their lives to end the practice (among other related political issues).
But slavery is not an American invention. History and pre-history is replete with slavery. Romans held, bought, and sold slaves. Egyptians had slaves. England allowed slavery (which America copied) until 1833, and held many slaves especially in the Caribbean and the Indian subcontinent (the latter of which the law of 1833 explicitly allowed to remain in place). Mexico had slavery until about 1829, albeit not in the number seen in the Caribbean and America. "Slave prices were highest from 1580 to 1640 at about 400 pesos. It decreased to about 350 pesos around 1650, staying constant until falling to about 175 pesos for an adult male in 1750. In the latter 18th century, mill slaves were phased out and replaced by indigenous, often indebted, labor."
Slavery continues to be practiced in pockets around the world "Estimates of the number of slaves today range from around 21 million to 70 million." "Since the 2014 Civil War in Libya, and the subsequent breakdown of law and order, there has been reports of enslaved migrants being sold in public, open slave markets in the country." "Mauritania has a long history with slavery. Chattel slavery was formally made illegal but the laws against it have gone largely unenforced. It is estimated that around 90,000 people (over 2% of Mauritania's population) are slaves."
Hard to say what's more silly: changing some terms that have no derogatory meaning when used in programming environments, or getting angry about such a small change. C'mon people. Take a deep breath and relax. There are much bigger problems to worry about.
Learn your lesson Python.
You can always find the biggest racists easily, because they'll say things like "slavery, globally, wasn't a race thing" and "show me one slave alive today"
Jesus you people are stupid
"durrrrr, I'm going to act like racism as an institution doesn't exist, because it would be inconvenient to my world view to admit that people like me are the problem"
Haha, idiot. This shit is still going on today, we have massive disparity in police action, we have deliberate moving of voting locations in minority neighborhoods, we have deliberate misplacement of city funds, so schools in white neighborhoods get more money than those in minority dominated neighborhoods. Minorities are labeled terrorist, white people are "good guys with mental problems" for exactly the same crimes
Way more black people are in jail, despite not committing more crimes, black people are shot for being in their own house when a cop gets confused about where they live and people somehow manage to blame the person.
White people in this country never got jet slavery ending, they've been secretly waiting for a way to put it back since the Civil War. They fucking fantasize about the shit
One can be polite and still discuss master / slave on USB and other appropriate topics.
Funny you should select USB as your example... Freudian slip?
For the uninitiated - USB uses the terms host & peripheral.
The article's reference to slavery as "America's peculiar institution" is incorrect and offensive. Slavery was not invented in America and continues to exist today in many parts of the world outside North America. America was among the first countries to pass legislation prohibiting slavery.
That pliable minds thing works both ways. If they change their perspective and cease being offended, then there is no need to demand that we change to accomodate them.
The parent-child nomenclature may be more apt than it first appears and may lead to better coding:
Children will not always do what the Parent expects of them. The Parents can plan accordingly (or not) and let their children run amok, just like so many parents do nowadays. With so many people used to the paradigm, programmers will be able to anticipate real-world behavior of the Parent and Child code.
However, the best part of this is that Parents can retroactively abort suitably-coded Children if the misbehave.
Let spell out what you're missing: None of what you talk about is in this conversation or thread. Do you expect us to address points that are in your head? And second you acknowledge that you were factually wrong on purpose. And three, I have yet to hear any African American person claim that their ancestors are the "same people" as them. They object to terminology because of what happened to their ancestors. The word you seem to have missed is "ancestor".
Political correctness, will be the ultimate downfall of human society. We'll get to the point where you can't say ANYTHING without offending someone. I'm offended, that people get offended!
Serfs are nothing like slaves. At all. Serfs have the right to a row, hoed if it is the local practice, in exchange for a predetermined number of days of farm labor. In addition, the Lord is obligated to protect the serf from attack, with his own life if necessary. The serf has basically no obligations outside of planting and harvest seasons.
In much of Europe for over 500 years serfs even had the right to a free beer at alms on Sunday.
In many cases there would have been both slaves and serfs in the same town. And their situations were very different.
How about that change? Maker/Taker, Driver/Rider, Leader/Follower, Primary/Secondary,...all have offensive connotations...sheesh!!!
They make me uncomfortable because they remind me of slavery.
I had a project that used the term "slave" for a process in a pool of processes that were assigned jobs, but I change it to "worker". It made very little difference to me and if some people were happier with that terminology, then fine. No need to be an asshole.
That's odd, they aren't aware that worker is a synonym for slave
The current use of "privilege" refers to those arbitrary distinctions between people that are most certainly not earned. I'm white, male, cisgender, and straight. Much like a star-bellied Sneetch, those categories give me some forms of better treatment and reduced obstacles, yet have nothing to do with anything I've chosen or earned. "Check your privilege" is intended to remind people that they may simply be blissfully unaware of the difficulties of those not similarly privileged.
Ok, I will put "master" and "slave" on my blacklist then.
There are people who are obviously uncomfortable with the terms diversity, SJW, gay, transgender, "gender isn't sex", homophobic, queer, or any bullshit PC euphemism. Are you going to cut those out of your lexicon?
Seriously, the act of trying to be politically correct is offensive to some people. Do you get that? You can't just "simply adopt another set of words" when that itself pisses off a different crowd of people. I detest people making up bullshit new terms for old things.
It's not difficult, it's offensive. And the part where YOU are DICTATING what terms other people are and are not allowed to say is an INSULT. People like you are trying to establish thought-crime. I'm highly motivated to resist that.
Dump 'Offensive' Master, Slave Terms
What incredibly stupid behavior! I'd expect nothing less from all you beta males!
Doesn't anyone else feel it's all the same as -90s old joke: Polictically Correct Unix ?
https://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~ravenben/humor/p_c_unix
*File Description: Politically Correct UNIX*
In order for UNIX(tm) to survive into the nineties, it must get rid of its
intimidating commands and outmoded jargon, and become compatible with the
existing standards of our day. To this end, our technicians have come up
with a new version of UNIX, System VI, for use by the PC - that is, the
"Politically Correct."
Politically Correct UNIX
System VI Release notes
UTILITIES
1) "man" pages are now called "person" pages.
2) Similarly, "hangman" is now the
"person_executed_by_an_oppressive_regime."
3) To avoid casting aspersions on our feline friends, the "cat" command is
now merely "domestic_quadruped."
4) To date, there has only been a UNIX command for "yes" - reflecting the
male belief that women always mean yes, even when they say no. To address
this imbalance, System VI adds a "no" command, along with a "-f[orce]"
option which will crash the entire system if the "no" is ignored.
5) The bias of the "mail" command is obvious, and it has been replaced by
the more neutral "gendre" command.
6) The "touch" command has been removed from the standard distribution due
to its inappropriate use by high-level managers.
7) "compress" has been replaced by the lightweight "feather" command. Thus,
old information (such as that from Dead White European Males) should be
archived via "tar" and "feather".
8) The "more" command reflects the materialistic philosophy of the Reagan
era. System VI uses the environmentally preferable "less" command.
9) The biodegradable "KleeNeX" displaces the environmentally unfriendly
"LaTeX".
SHELL COMMANDS
1) To avoid unpleasant, medieval connotations, the "kill" command has been
renamed "euthanise."
2) The "nice" command was historically used by privileged users to give
themselves priority over unprivileged ones, by telling them to be "nice". In
System VI, the "sue" command is used by unprivileged users to get for
themselves the rights enjoyed by privileged ones.
3) "history" has been completely rewritten, and is now called "herstory."
4) "quota" can now specify minimum as well as maximum usage, and will be
strictly enforced.
5) The "abort()" function is now called "choice()."
TERMINOLOGY
1) From now on, "rich text" will be more accurately referred to as
"exploitive capitalist text".
2) The term "daemons" is a Judeo-Christian pejorative. Such processes will
now be known as "spiritual guides."
3) There will no longer be a invidious distinction between "dumb" and
"smart" terminals. All terminals are equally valuable.
4) Traditionally, "normal video" (as opposed to "reverse video") was white
on black. This implicitly condoned European colonialism, particularly with
respect to people of African descent. UNIX System VI now uses "regressive
video" to refer to white on black, while "progressive video" can be any
color at all over a white background.
5) For far too long, power has been concentrated in the hands of "root" and
his "wheel" oligarchy. We have instituted a dictatorship of the users. All
system administration functions will be handled by the People's Committee
for Democratically Organizing the System (PC-DOS).
6) No longer will it be permissible for files and processes to be "owned"
by users. All files and processes will own themselves, and decided how (or
whether) to respond to requests from users.
7) The X Window System will henceforth be known as the NC-17 Window System.
8) And finally, UNIX itself will be renamed "PC" - for Procreatively
Challenged.
if it doesn't fucking matter then why change it?
logic is not your fucking strong point...
The SPI protocol is in for a hard time!
MOSI: Master Out Slave In
MISO: Master In Slave out
Have they (the PC Police) actually found someone "offended" by master/slave naming scheme? Have they found the real slave who actually read Python documentation and felt bad because of this?
Even better: Cracker / Ginger
A bunch of faggots are ruining the internet
It isn't a prohibition on slavery, it is the prohibition on fraud in selling as a slave a person who was captured using an incorrect procedure. It doesn't prohibit anything to do with slaves, it is prohibition on fraud and mistreatment of non-slaves.
The context of the passage leaves no ambiguity on those points.
White people being white people.
Why did slavery come to the USA, but not Canada?
Plebs were free Roman citizens of a lower class. They would not be comforted by the prohibition or tolerance of slavery. So I would say it was clearly targeted either at the Patricians, or the slaves, but certainly not the Plebs.
Enough Said.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
this is a fucking joke, guess we nothing better to do, nothing better to make, lets spend resources on "not offending millennials" lol
Primary, secondary, tertiary.
I noticed this years ago in indutrial controllers. It was an easy change to make in documentation. Just call something a "Primary" if it's top level. "Backup" if it's a primary failover. "Passive" if it can't operate independently. Remember, not everything is a reflection on hjumans working with it.
This is exactly why Trump's election was a surprise. A majority of his voters stayed silent because they didn't want to be harassed or lose their job.
The jury is still out on whether the Jews were in Egypt, as there is no firm historical evidence. They _were_ in Babylon though, which is where they likely picked up the Noah story among others. To make things more complicated, ancient Egypt did claim what is now Israel as part of its territories at one point, and the Bronze Age collapse happened around this time, so what actually happened is a really interesting historical question. Did they loop back to the Levant from Eqyptian Levant? Did they change Babylon to Egypt since Babylon no longer existed or was too far away by the time they started to codify their texts? Were they part of the sea-peoples invasion?
Individual racism notwithstanding...
And there it is.
I am going to keep using these terms. Practically any word could be misinterpreted or spun in such a manner so at to evoke something politically incorrect or distasteful. We should judge the use of any word by its context and even them that does not give anyone the right to infringe on someoneâ(TM)s right to express themselvess in a free and open society!!!!
I blame 50 Shades
I just changed my mind on marijuana. I am now 100% for it if it will get you to chill the fuck out.
Yes, only descendants of Abrahamic faiths practiced slavery. Get some perspective you mook.
Perhaps we could consult Orwell, through his guidebook for creating better Dystopian Utopias?
Master - Comrade-Leader
Slave - Comrade
Parent - Comrade-Producer
Child - Young-Comrade
Kill - Salvage
Abort - Pre-Salvage
You must live in a different universe than many of the rest of us. The echos of slavery are still easily audible today in the USA, and have a clear impact on large parts of the population still. While slavery was abolished more than 150 years ago blacks were still facing systemic racism deliberately built into and maintained in government until the civil rights movement forced a change. Even today our Federal Government and many complicit State Governments continue the War on Drugs which was founded as a way to persecute minorities and is still having a devastating affect today. Then you have businesses deliberately preying on minorities, for instance Car Insurance companies have been found charging higher rates in zip codes populated by minorities compared to zip codes with identical risk scores but populated by whites.
Racism, personal and systemic, is largely tied nearly directly to Slavery. Just because the slaves were freed didn't mean that magically everything was made equal or fair. For more than the next century black people were actively and openly discriminated against and usually it was legal if not de facto legal. When I was growing up we were only just getting to the point that we could be said to be a generation past that. We're still in a period though where many of those people are still around and their age group holds a lot of the wealth and power in this society. With the way that wealth distribution works in our country I don't think we're likely to see the racism situation improve much as those views are really rooted in the affects of poverty. The single thing we might actually accomplish in my lifetime that could make a difference would be killing the war on drugs and revoking many of the convictions that relate to it for non-violent offenders.
This one master/slave name change was pushed by the Mayor of San Francisco in the late 80s. If this one goes through the dumber we become! Just like statues of Southern war heroes, I've got an idea, if someone tears down a statue and the other side will rename streets so they are no longer MLK. This PC stuff just keeps driving divisive behavior just so the easily offended weak hearted that are scared of HISTORY will feel okay...in the foreground. In the background the govt. just plays the people as their pawns so their truth never comes to light... until it is too late... too late.
Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
I totally agree. The terms "slave" and "master" have always turned my stomach. Glad to see this moving forward.
" America's peculiar institution". Since when? Slavery is neither peculiar to nor peculiar in America. If one has to stretch this far for guilt, one needs a new hobby.
Would you yanks stop pushing your hangups on the rest of the world FFS!
In response to my reply to the parent, Alypius commented:
This is exactly why Trump's election was a surprise. A majority of his voters stayed silent because they didn't want to be harassed or lose their job.
It wasn't a surprise to everyone - not even everyone on the left.
Michael Moore knew it, made a documentary called Trump that predicted it, and spent the final couple of months prior to the election on the talk-show circuit, warning viewers that Trump was probably going to win - to no avail.
In his new account of Trump's campaign and the first 18 months of his administration, Bob Woodward claims that he suspected that Hillary would lose, because of the very large number of Obama voters he talked to who were furious and (more importantly) fearful about the economy and our profoundly disfunctional Congress. He also repeatedly makes the point that, once he agreed to manage the campaign, Steve Bannon steadfastly insisted he was absolutely certain Trump would win, even during the media shitstorm over Pussygate, when every Republican official, and every other member of the campaign's inner circle was urging him to withdraw, and cede the nomination to Pence.
However, I strongly disagree with your contention that crossover voters kept quiet about their intentions out of fear for their jobs.
It is a Federal felony to fire a person for expressing his or her political preference. (That's a Good Thing, and we have the First Amendment to thank for it.) The only exception to that rule is for poll workers, on election day, who express their personal preference to voters at their polling place, where it's legally considered to be election tampering - because it is exactly that. (That's the same reason that even voters themselves are barred from wearing hats, shirts, buttons, or other clothing or accessories that advocate for a particular candidate, party, or issue. Voters who show up wearing them will be asked to remove and/or cover them up while they are within 100 feet of the polling place - and asked to leave, if they refuse. Oh, and if they refuse to do that, the police will be called to arrest them for trespassing.)
(Note that expressing a political preference in an email or discussion topic written on an employer's computer, and/or cc-ed to other employees or the public may legitimately be considered as grounds for termination, as can starting arguments with other employees about them, insisting on wearing campaign garb at work, or expressing those opinions to customers - because the latter can be construed as falsely representing their employer's position, rather than their own, and the former can be considered as creating unacceptable disruption, and/or harming morale in the workplace, thereby harming productivity. And most large companies explicitly spell that out in their employee handbooks, btw. It's not that you have no right to express your opinion at work. The principle is that you can't do so in a way that makes you a nuisance. Simply responding to a direct question on the subject, however, or non-confrontationally discussing politics during a break is always legal - or, in other words, as long as you're not being an asshole about it, and you're doing it on time that your employer isn't paying you to focus on your duties, you're fine.)
No, I agree with Woodward's conclusion that those voters simply didn't want to get involved in political arguments with other people, regardless of whether they were co-workers, friends, neighbors, or even other family members. (In my experience, most people dislike arguing politics simply because it both causes hard feelings, and it almost never persuades other people to change their vote.)
YMMV, of course ...
Check out my novel.
Changing the terms because some people find them offensive is the right thing to do.
It's true that offence is personal. Not everyone has a problem using master/slave, lots of commenters here clearly don't. It's true that people can theoretically claim to be 'offended' by just about anything. Lots of commenters have come up with wild fantasies where other words could (but never will) be targeted for replacement.
The civil war may have ended the formal institution of slavery, but racism against blacks is alive and well. If you doubt this, try googling "life while black". I find it completely reasonable for people who daily face different treatment because of their skin to ask for one less reminder of it while they're at work. "Political correctness" isn't about forcing people to change their language just because, or about rubbing your virtue in everyone's face. It's about having some fucking empathy for the people around you.
The cost of changing a few words in the docs is marginal to non-existent. If it improves a few people's days, we should gladly do it.
None of what you described has a fucking thing to do with slavery. Racism, yes, but I did already suggest that we address those issues, did I not? Oh, you wouldn't know because your ignorant piece of shit ass jumped up to reply after the 2nd paragraph of my comment. Go read it all, then come back and act like an adult.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
and I'll tell you why with no coding paradigms or any of that other shit. No one has ever cared about the tags, handle's or whatever's used because they got a simple job done. Master and Slave do no mean the same thing as a new age you're racist interpretation. Get off your soap box and quit virtue signaling so we can code next best thing so that you may use it and tell us just how bad we are doing when you become offended!!!!
old white people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavey )))
Python is an agressive, predatory, invasive species, it has no place in this free loving society. I propose we change the name to Pussies or Snowflakes.
So when are they going to rename Python to something less offensive?
I mean, the name Python is clearly just a reinforcement of the male dominance and misogyny of the programming world.
Instead of changing the words, change the context to BSDM.
6gunner your name's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I APK challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your name on those posts you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
6gunner your name's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your name on those posts you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
Where everybody can define their own keywords that are non-offensive to them.
It probably won't be very compatible with anybody else's compiler though, so portability will be shot. But hell it's gonna be great for business.
c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse was you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... since I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
"I run the streets @ night - I terrorize @ every corner: 500 horses under the hood, my machine & I am thunder! My wheels of fire, I am the wind YOU TRY TO CATCH ME, but you JUST CAN'T CATCH A HURRICANE! - THE RODS https://www.youtube.com/watch?... ... & you certainly CANNOT stop me (ask whipslash who FAILED in it, lol).
* No, this WILL continue c6gunner FAKENAME - to YOUR PUBLIC DISMAY by letting everyone SEE the online SWINE you are (no honor).
APK
P.S.=> ... & no skills either, lol - you did THAT proof of your lack of them YOURSELF in my post you replied to CHUMP (don't mess w/ the bull CHUMP - you'll get the horns & don't MESS w/ your BETTERS in myself either)... apk
It is a well written piece, backed by reasoned arguments, but the conclusion is not obviously correct. When a word's primary use is an insult, it is not surprising that someone does not take kindly to a doctor using the term in a technically correct but unfamiliar usage.
Rehabilitating words does not seem like an easy thing. Would we have good examples of success there?
There are some examples of words getting embraced. Gay and queer come to mind, though that demographic benefits from the media and Hollywood's love of gays and pedophiles so it's less likely that retard would succeed. However we do have many examples of a medical term devolving into an insult. Let's face it, there will always be retards no matter what we call them. Coming up with a new term each generation seems like a waste of time. That was the point.
PC thinking is fundamentally a denial of reality. Does going from idiot to retard to intellectually disabled actually change anything? Will there always be some who are cruel enough to mock the downs kids no matter what the official term is? Rather than deny reality why not work within it?
To quote a film hero of mine? "I'm not leavin': This is ground zero. This is MY site! I'm not gonna let this happen. I can still fix this..." Dr. Robert Neville I am LEGEND...
* Get it? Good...
APK
P.S.=> Another quote from that excellent inspirational film that applies to "YOUR KIND" (filthy vampires): "Typical human behavior is now ENTIRELY ABSENT..." apk
Note how the OP has already taken the "superior being" view, by belonging to the "pliable mind" group identified by the fact that they change the words that describe everyday things to avoid offending anyone. If you don't agree with this view, you don't have a pliable mind and are therefore inferior.
I argue that a "pliable" mind would be one that realizes that words mean different things in different context and would not be offended when they are not used in the offensive context. I'm surprised no one moved to make the name Dick illegal since it is clearly an offensive word. And all those English places, Essex, Sussex, too much sex and I'm offended by all these sex references.
I'm going to get my dinosaur now.
c6gunner see subject & accepting yourself as you are FAKEname on a post impersonating me & worse is u altering /.er's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... as I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
(PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH TOO saying what I don't (on spectre/meltdown) https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... - bank on 1 thing fucker - THIS exposing YOUR DIRTY BULLSHIT is NOT going to stop...)
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable pussy loser... apk
Jesus you people are stupid
Looking in a funhouse mirror again, eh?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I never said racism doesn't exist. Read my other posts in this thread, fuckwit. Racism and slavery are two very different things, and people need to let the one that ended (Black American slavery, that is; there's still quite a bit of slavery about) go, so they can deal with the one that's still with us.
We have a lot of work to do, and not enough time to fuck around dealing with what was already fixed a century and a half ago.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
In hardware the resistor color codes should also be changed. Why is black '0' (the lowest) and white '9' (near the highest)? Has there always been a subconscious way of thinking implanted in the industry?
Obviously so...
All of those issues are lingering after affects from Slavery. Freed slaves were broke as hell. Boot strapping yourself out of absolute poverty is possible but incredibly difficult. That boot strapping was additionally hampered by more than a century of deliberate legal oppression by the white majorities throughout much of the country. And it is still ongoing today to a lesser degree with the drug war, banks redlining communities and all kinds of other garbage. All of that is a direct de-escalation from Slavery. Pretending that Racism in America exists as some sort of bubble unconnected with Slavery is just delusional.
Oh my fucking God, no. Everything you just listed are examples of racism, with the exception of being flat broke and starting from nothing after slavery ended.and nobody in the following generation dealt with that. So, again, Black slavery in America is over, nobody today has to deal with its effects, so let's concentrate on the other things you listed and blame them on the individuals, still alive today, who are responsible for them, rather than the individuals, long dead, who were responsible for a different atrocity. All you do by blaming slavery is give the perpetrators of today's racist wrongs a place to point their fingers: you're saying it's not their fault, it's the fault of a bunch of dead guys, and they're running with that and saying "whoopsie, guess there's nothing we can do, then." STOP LETTING THEM DO THAT. Blame today's living, breathing, racist scum for today's problems; hold them accountable and, for fuck's sake, educate anyone you still hear blaming slavery, as they are part of the problem.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I am most certainly not excusing anyone from their current racist behavior. If anything they are more to blame because they can look back and should be able to see the clear parallels between the evil that was done historically and the only slightly less evil shit they pull today. In fact I suppose the argument could be made the behavior today is more evil than slavery was because it is more apparent than ever before how wrong it is, and so continuing in such behavior constitutes a more deliberate intention.
See? You're starting to come around. And I mean that sincerely, no snark or sarcasm. Yes, what we have today is worse than slavery, in a way; I wasn't there to see it, but I would imagine slavery was worse in other ways. What makes the current situation worse is that there's not just a single law we can change at the federal level to fix it, it's a compounding of federal, state, and local laws, most of which likely weren't even intended to have any racial influence, on top of individual racism and a generally ignorant population (regardless of race). And it took a civil war to chang the single law.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Well let's use my favourite Metallica tune:
Master > puppet.
This insanity grows beyond any borders.
Did you miss the part where he admitted to being wrong on purpose?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Roman slaves could buy their freedom and were often manumitted by their masters. It is true that their children were born into their state - ie, slavery, but they weren't compelled to endure a lifetime of it, if they were industrious and/or had decent masters.
The manager/IC thing was the tipoff.