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Apple releases iPod
The BrownFury writes "At an invitation only event Apple has released their new MP3 player called the iPod. iPod is the size of a deck of cards. 2.4" wide by 4" tall by .78" thick 6.5 ounces. 5 GB HDD, 10 hr battery life, charged via FireWire. Works as a firewire drive as well. Works in conjunctions with iTunes 2. Here are Live updates". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
BSD is the software behind the world's most popular Web sites.
An open-source operating system like Linux, BSD was developed in the 1970s at the University of California-Berkeley, well before Linus Torvalds ever took a computer course. So why was it Linux that captured mindshare and public imagination? BSD's obscurity is just part of the reason it is now considered cooler than Linux among the geekiest geeks. But the software some say is the most secure operating system in the world may be poised to make a Linux-like leap to the forefront.
The list of big-name companies and Web sites that use BSD is impressive. Yahoo, UUNet, Mindspring and Compuserve are on the list - in fact, perhaps 70 percent of all Internet service providers use BSD. Also on the list - Walnut Creek CDROM Inc. and its CD-ROM FTP download site, which the company says delivers more than 1 terabyte of data to visitors every day. Microsoft's free e-mail service Hotmail resides BSD servers, and Apple announced in June its next operating system will be based on BSD. Microsoft and partner MSNBC.com both use BSD for their websites. When asked about using BSD to power their own website, a Microsoft spokesperson stated that it was "ten times more stable" than Windows and "at least twenty times more stable and reliable" than Linux.
So why is Linux on everyone's lips, and why are there about 10 times as many Linux users as BSD users? After all, they are both free operating systems that offer free source code - and BSD had quite a head start.
Legal troubles tell part of the story. Right as the Internal began to reach critical mass, in 1993, the BSD movement was hit by a copyright lawsuit from AT&T, which still owned the rights to Unix. At the same time, Torvalds was welcoming help from all comers, mainly young computer science students enamored of with the coming information explosion.
There are other reasons - much effort has been put into making Linux user-friendly enough for use as a desktop operating system. BSD groups have focused on servers, never putting much work into appealing to a mass market. There has also been a large anti-BSD movement in the Linux community. Torvalds himself has encouraged some less than reputable business practices towards the BSD movement, including intentionally damaging BSD code, inflamtory public remarks, and making Linux less than 100% compatible with BSD.
Talk to BSD users, and a quiet but clear sense of superiority comes through. In a recent survey, it was found that 86% of BSD users have computer science degrees, hold management positions and have 10 years or more experience in the field. Linux users, on the other hand, are young hackers doing mostly destructive work and motivated in part by having too much free time.
Its plain to see why BSD is a clearly superior operating system.
In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women!-H.Simpson
Yes, open source as a hobbyist development model can and will persist long into the future, and I'm sure that there will be fun and exciting products as a result of it.
That said, now that the heady, greedy days of the dot com boom are long behind us, it's high time to re-evaluate the position. Money isn't growing on trees and being plucked from the asses of VCs star-struck by that beautiful three-letter phrase (IPO, IPO, IPO!) so much that they can overlook that little thing called "a business plan."
Internet advertising is the redheaded stepchild of the marketing family. Old media ads have no need to justify themselves with inanities like "click-through"; they know their demographic and their real estate is mindshare, that precious commodity which they assume that they're purchasing with their ad dollars, regardless of whether or not this purchase translates into a product purchase immediately or down the road. The internet is a fickle bastard: people gravitate towards the warez model of "buy none, get one free" and so there's the propensity towards stealing everything we can. To wit: the inevitable linking to archives.nytimes.com anytime they've got an article up because registration is such a chore, but if you were to ask the average Slashdotter how they feel about someone using "their" resources without registration (think Anonymous Cowards here), one would instead getsthe impression that merely providing a name and e-mail address is as simple as could be. Hmm. To wit: proxies, ad-killing bots and specialized hosts files that insure that our precious bandwidth isn't eaten up by ancillary ads that might keep the sites afloat, but then again if we don't click on them and buy something might not even if we do see them. Hmm.
Ah, open source. Communism reborn, and who can hate that? Not the watered down Leninism that the Soviet Union ran through in short order, but honest-to-goodness communism. Take what you need, give what you have. Beautiful. A touching sentiment.
Also impossible to be a commercially viable entity when human nature comes into play. If we can get our content ad-free we will, even though it means economic hardship and possibly the closing of the sites we visit and love (or love to hate, as the case may be) and if we can get our software cost-free, without the dirty stigma of clicking through porno banners to find the 3rd word of the 4th paragraph to get entry to L33t b0b'5 h0u53 0f w4r3z, all the better. I whip up a weekend project that is derivative but I'm proud of and off to Freshmeat with you! Maybe even Sourceforge! Take it! Share it!
I'll pour a few hundred hours of blood, sweat and tears into it! Shiny new! Everyone wants it! It's hot!
But how do I parlay it into a commercial venture when everyone can get it for free and fix it up as they want? Hmm.
Open source is a lovely idea with lofty goals, and as long as talented, motivated, intelligent programmers buy into it, it will generate impressive results. Unfortunately, there's a very finite number of talented, motivated, intelligent, ascetic programmers out there who will buy into it.
OSDN's changing business strategies faster than you can say "we're a B2B play now!" (read: brushed up that resume yet?). If bigger ads or a subscription service to a website who doesn't give a whit about the quality of its journalism and doesn't know the meaning of the word "editing", relying on constantly inflammatory agitprop to woo its readership are the order of the day, then I'll just stick with Ars Technica, The Register and memepool (topical, informative, and normally journalistically objective sites), thanks. Slashdot's been a fun little ride, and like many other things, peer moderation was a sexy little idea, just unfortunate in that it pretty much disintegrated into ugly mob rule groupthink. Scene, not herd.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
Will it connect to a pc?
Cruise TT
Will people who enjoy using this be iPod People?
*ducks rotten tomatos*
5 GB still is more than my whole mp3 collection
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Let's have a close look at the costs involved when running a Linux system.
An important factor in Linux' cost is its maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Linux seems to be needing maintenance continuously, to keep it from breaking down.
Add to this the cost of loss of data. Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.
According to Linux advocates, an alternative to EXT2FS would be ReiserFS. Unfortunately, ReiserFS is still in beta stage. This means it is not intended for production use (although according to many Linux advocates this shouldn't be a problem, which makes me wonder how (little) valuable they find your data).
The other proposed 'solution', EXT3FS, is nothing more than an ugly hack to put journaling into the file system. All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS, for the sake of 'forward- and backward compatibility'. This is interesting, considering that the DOS heritage in the Windows 9x/ME series was considered a very bad thing by the Linux community, even though it provided what could be called one of the best examples of compatibility, ever. When it's about Linux, compatibility constraints don't seem to be that much of a problem for Linux advocates.
Back to Linux' cost. Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Linux than on other unices. On other unices, crashes usually are caused by external sources like power outages. Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally. Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".
The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification. On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude.
I could go on and on and on, but the conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc.
well thats nice but not exactly insanely great. it goes well with an iBook. but as i got no firewire enabled macs i'll have to give it a miss.
Crickey!
can make those who defended it eat crow. All in one day! It just doesn't get better than this....
Its cool...but its not that cool...
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" -MLK
Less space (1 gig). But it is also a great deal smaller than the Nomad. This one will easily fit in a jacket pocket.
Nothing huge. But it moves a bit further than anyone else right now.
If you ask the average slashbot, he (I can say he with confidance, cause no women use linux) would tell you that he would want the troll off of slashdot as soon as possible. I argue that slashdot needs trolls to be what it is today. Most posters to slashdot are repressed geeks that no one cares about and everybody pickes on. They are never on the winning team and are always left out. Slashdot readers have latched on to Linux and the community that has arose around it; they love to defend it; even if they are wrong.
Most trolls are helpful and caring folk who care about their fellow man. Trolls help the poor linux user by giving him a easy target to flame, or to attempt to flame, as the case me be. Troll try to be there for slashdot readers of a wide variety of mental capacities. Some trolls are easy to spot; they are designed to be that way. But, to give some of the smarter (and that term is very subjective) slashdot readers a challenge, some of the trolls are harder to spot. The troll might be an easy topic, like the death of BSD, or it might be a harder topic like Natilie Portman and the grits that occupy her pants.
No matter what the level of trolling, it can be said hat slashdot readers love responding to trolls as much as much as the trolls like being responded to. Keep in mind that when a (logged in) troll makes a first post or gives a link to goatse.cx, it is his way of saying "I love you, man!"
Please discuss
Michael Loves Me!
Apple has just updated their product page about this device. Looks very cool and will probably get it to match the colors of my ibook.
So...Apple has been on Slashdot quite bit lately no?
Just shows how cool they are. Yeah!
FireWire (400Mbps) data syncing _and_ recharging at the same time. That's cool.
I wonder if it's hackable for a bigger drive...
Plus, you can use it as a portable disk. No "content protection". Yay!
...until Apple releases their new line of pastel contact lenses:
The iEye! [ducks]People need to realize that all apple ever really delivers is mediocre equipment that, while it may look really cool, is less technically advanced/powerfull/whatever than competing products that cost 20-25% less.
A total waste of time.
And $400 is a bit too high, I'm afraid. It's not completely offensive, the thing does have some distinctive features: data and charging over firewire, ten hour battery, very small and light, and, for those of you who swing that way, seamless integration with iTunes.
I'm guessing that they'll drop the price to $300 after Christmas (perhaps at macworld expo in January), which will be more reasonable. Still a bit of a premium on a sheer dollars to bytes scale, but perhaps worth it for the other features.
Apple is being distroyed by the rumors that are being created. When they announce that they are going to have a new product, everyone thinks it's going to blow their worlds. Rumors start flooding in about even the most outragous products ( I even heard a few "sources" mention teleportion) This is getting plain stupid.
Apple is a normal company. Why does the public constantly expect them do the impossible?
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
Is that iWalk thing you dopes fell for. Photoshopped Apple 'product' shots are a time-honored tradition. Do you guys ever check your sources?
q
What happens when I drop it? Is it solid state? If not, it doesn't make it note worthy in my books.
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
Because it's smaller and has a wire?
How would wireless benefit you?
It's like the argument that mail servers witl web-based configs are better than sendmail. What does it matter if I sit down, open a web browser, and type in an URL, or sit down, open vi with a parameter to edit configs?
You sit down at your Mac, and initiate a transfer to the MP3 player sitting right next to you. It's not like the MP3 player is going to be in your car.
Though it could be, and that would be cool. Too bad your PC is in the basement on the other side of the furnace. Don't try and deny it.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
I need a fast, really small, 3GB+ hard drive, for software project transfers. This will do nicely, I think. Back in the day (early 90s) I used to use something called a Pocket Rocket, a SCSI HD about the size of a TV remote. When it comes to stuff that, for size reasons, really needs to be sneakernetted, this is the ideal solution. Any songs that I want to listen to can fit in the remaining 2GB with ease...
-- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
iPod, uPod, we all Pod for iPod!
How to Download YouTube Videos
If this is so lame, then how did this become an article here, and a front-page one, no less?
I'm not afraid of falling, it's the sudden stop at the end that frightens me.
I would much rather give up some gigs to have a deck of cards form factor. The nomad is just to big to carry regularly, and this unit still has magnitudes more storage than other small MP3 players, sounds perfect.
Spencer Ogden
I think this is neat. Firewire is nice, and this can be used as an external harddrive as well.
:)
The only problem is the failure to play ogg files. I no longer have any mp3s, so this isn't as useful as it could be.
Waiting for those ogg-compatable players
data drive is kinda neet.. You can haul around some images. videos etc.. Firewire makes syncing fast too..
/it can be used on "Non" apple computers...
Not bad. The big question is whether they'll let
It's not limited to Apple users... you can get firewire ports on any type of computer, you know. It would be in Apple's best interests to release drivers to make this thing work with other OS's, unless they want to reduce the market for this thing by like 99%.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
If I'm going to lay here and rot away, why not rot over an iPod?
Less space then the Nomad yes, but also MUCH MUCH SMALLER. You ever try putting a Nomad in your pocket and go for a walk? The Nomad is only good as a psuedo stereo component, or perhaps in your car. Not to mention the horrible battery life!
//lame my ass.
Also, how many HOURS does it take to transfer your 6.4gb MP3 collection onto your Nomad? I know my USB player takes forever to even fill up its 64mb memory. Firewire let's you do it BLAZINGLY FAST.
This is a marvel of engineering, very useful and I give apple much credit for coming out with this device.
Also, did I mention automatic playlist/sing library synching with iTunes2? THIS is what portable music should be.
http://kered.org
Why? It's pretty and light, and it auto-syncs. Style and convenience matter!
sulli
RTFJ.
A freaking mp3 player. Wow yeah Job's thinks that changed the world. What a waste of developement dollars.
It figures that the monopoly wielding company of Cupertino would want to break the law in other ways by introducing the ability to play illegal MP3s on their systems.
Nomad: 5x5x1.5 at 14oz
iPod: 2.4x4x.78 at 6.5oz
I'll give up a gig for size and weight.
Let my go get you a spoon so you can eat my ass.
You can get fire wire controllers for PCs... I think it's beginning to crop up on mother boards as well. These Guys have fire wire goodies and they're just in the first 10 sites you get when you Google for "FireWire".
If I can't see it in Lynx I'm not interested.
And I was all excited they were going to release a OS X based wireless web pad. Instead we get yet another portable MP3 player .. "groundbreaking" I think was the term I heard them use to describe this new secret product the other day. How "groundbreaking" can something be when I can walk up the street and buy something with similiar (and in some cases, additional/better) features?
Sigh. One day Apple will live up to the hype. OS X is cool, and their plastic molding team has skills, but the hardware just sucks.
--
Still want one though :)
...what REALLY knocks me out about this is that it's essentially an insanely small, light, portable firewire hard drive. In case you didn't get this, any space not used by MP3s is mountable on the desktop. So I could transfer a bunch of design files to it, plug in my headphones, walk to a company I'm freelancing for, take off my headphones, plug it in, and transfer a couple of gigs worth of stuff. That sounds really, really cool to me. And the fact that it recharges via FireWire. USB is looking pretty lame right now.
And for those who poopoo the significance of firewire, speed matters. In the handheld world, I compared 2 MP3 modules whose biggest difference is the speed of file transfers. Our readers cared more about speed than the size of the modules themselves, and I think iPod users will too.
"The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
Yea it does. The management on it is many times better then any other MP3 player out there. On top of it when it is in FireWire mode it will mount on the desktop of just about any FW enabled machine so that files can be transfered like it's a hard drive. I bet you could even transfer other files along with MP3's. Plus it's integration into iTunes it cool. I agree. It's not revolutionary but it's a nice step with a little bit of innovation. Says a lot about Apple that they are attempting a new product like this in a market like the one we have now.
Yeah, what about Lame? How else would you encode your mp3's?
Seriously, this device is far from lame in my eyes. 5GB is plenty of storage. I have like 20GB of mp3's anyway, not like they're really going to fit on anything out there. And uh... I never really need more that 5GB at a time, ya know.
The recharging via Firewire is cool too. The size is a plus... the Nomad is too big for me to carry around. And being able to use it as a portable harddrive is cool, too... burning CD's to ferry files back and forth is a pain. I'm gonna buy one if it works with other OS's.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
I like it. iTunes, for those that haven't used a Mac, is REALLY slick. It is a great UI and makes things really easy and intuitive. My fiancee recently got an iBook, and she loves how easy it is to rip CDs into her machine and burn CDs. Rather than swapping applications, she does it all within iTunes.
Us geeks, who always acknowledged that Macs had a great UI (but we called them idiot machines) miss out on some of the impressive stuff that Apple does.
The Macintosh way is to organize things by things the users do, not the underlying file system. This is a HUGE paradigm shift from the Unix (everything is a file) paradigm, and from the Microsoft (everything is about something).
On a Windows box, you run a program to rip your CDs into MP3s. If you want to burn a CD, you use a program to convert them to WAVs, then you burn the WAVs to CDs.
On a Mac, you pop an audio CD in to your computer and add the songs to your library. If you burn a CD, you pop a blank in and hit burn CD. Now with iTunes 2, you'll have the option to make MP3 CDs (which previously would be done as burning a data CD).
In UNIX, you focus on the files. In a Mac, you focus on the activity. My fiancee doesn't have to think about file formats, she thinks about music. She barely touches her Windows PC or MIT's UNIX network anymore.
This device extends the Mac functionality. Instead of firing up Creative Lab's software and pick and choose which songs you want on it. Want to listen on the computer? Fire up WinAmp. Want to rip CDs, fire up that application.
With the iPod, it integrates into your system. You plug it in, it keeps your songs available. No need to mess with a clunky interface, the thumb-rolling thingy-ma-bopper looks like a clean way to use the device.
The Nomad Jukebox 20G with the batteries is about a pound. My brother loves his, but it mostly sits in the car now. He used to take it to the gym, but it wastoo big and bulky.
I realize that most Slashdotters are looking at the specs, but realize what this actually does. Its tiny, it'll fit in a jacket pocket (or pant pocket), its convenient.
Take it jogging, to the gym, etc. Sit in the park, walk around.
The Nomad Jukebox is too damned heavy.
This device rocks, I expect them to sell plenty.
I think that they should sell a Windows version of it with a Windows version of iTunes and a Firewire card, but that's just me.
Oh boy, another overpriced mp3 player, just what I need. I really dislike memory or hd based players as you can buy a burner and an mp3cd player for less than the cost of these devices I'll go buy a portable mp3 cd player and be done with it.
But, since its not an iWalk, let the Apple buying palm rumors return.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
Ah, not so.... My x86 boxes have SCSI and FireWire. Heck, check out the specs on this from a few days ago - note firewire - think drive for car, with the option to go personal...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
But what does being highly innovative get Apple? Think Newton. It still runs circles around the Palm, but was a commercial failure. It was too innovative.
But, how about if you took the idea of an MP3 player, made it look nice, gave it a Firewire port for fast transfers and easy recharging, and made the whole thing sync seamlessly with iTunes.
Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. I imagine they'll sell quite a few. It's the right feature set at the right time.
Geoff
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
You guys were all singing the praises of the Nomad Jukebox when it debuted at $700...
No. Definately not lame. But very very overpriced. Take it down to $300 and it would be much more reasonable. Gotta love Cmdr Taco and those one liners.
I have trouble with passwords among other things.
Firewire is not an Apple-only technology - it's the same thing as Sony's iLink and IEE1394 (the "official" name of the protocol). However, it's unlikely that Apple will write software for other platforms to support it, and unknown whether or not the iPod communications protocol can be reverse-engineered (possible DMCA issues?) so that third-party commercial and/or open source software will be compatible.
Well, tech specs give a max altitude of 10,000. :)
Have they really tested this???
So, I can't listen to my music when the plane will go over 10,000 feet?
Greg
This is exactly this sort of MP3 player I'd like to buy, decent space, tiny size, light, simple interface and doubles as a hard drive.
Unfortunately $400 is about twice as much as I'd want to pay for something the size of a pack of cards. Too bad, it's an otherwise well-designed product.
Waiting for iPod 2.......
yea, transfering a whole CD in 10 seconds is lame...idiot.
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
That said, I am both a shareholder and consumer of Apple products. When I read the announcement and specs I went straight to the Apple Store. At $199-$250, I would have bought two, immediately. Instead, at $399, I am buying zero, and expect that many other people will feel the same way.
I am very sad that Apple seems to be repeating the same mistake they made with the Cube - great, nifty product that anyone would love to own, except that it's burdened by an unbelievably poor price/performance ratio.
A laptop hard drive of that size in the quantity Apple buys is about $30 these days. I am more than willing to pay a premium for Apple designed hardware and software. This thing will undoubtedly have a great interface. But that is not worth $200 extra (double the price!).
I know Apple prices it's products to maximize profit. But I wish they'd realize they could make the same amount of money, and have more marketshare, if they'd sell 3 times as many at half the cost instead.
All I can say is, as an Apple "fan", I'm sad.
I submitted this as an article as well, but I must have been slightly behind the other guy.
:) Sure, hard-drive based players do this as well, and they have a much higher storage capacity -- but they are much more bulky and require careful care and feeding.
I have two major problems with this. First of all, yeah, it's tiny (the length of a credit card and less than an inch thick.) However, what happens when it gets dropped on the floor? For now, hard-drive based players are bulky for a reason -- tiny laptop drives are FRAGILE and need to be protected! The spindles won't hold up to much abuse, and MP3 players are subjected to a large amount of abuses on a daily basis, from being shoved in a backpack to being put in a pocket while the person is running. How well does the Apple player stack up?
Secondly, the Apple player is competing with many others on the market. Steve Jobs makes it sound like Apple is the only player in the arena, but in reality, there are several. Sure, Apple is the only one doing Firewire, and Firewire offers a faster transfer rate. But that's all for moot if my player pukes once I throw it in my bag.
If you're interested in finding a really tiny player, check out the Flash-memory based ones. Flash memory is getting a lot cheaper. MyDivaPlayer.com is offering a 128MB player that also accepts Flash memory for $135 after discount. Plus, these things are about half the size of the iPod. Flash memory players can be neat as well -- infinitely expandable storage, rewriteablity, and most players automatically plug-n-play as removable drives on Windows systems. Plus, you can do voice recording and cart around lots of other files as well, so the players double as mini Zip disks.
For the clueful, it can be used as a 5GB firewire hard disk if you need it to. This can come in very handy -- my wife already wants one, and this is one of the reasons.
However, there are two critical problems I see with it. The first, of course, is the price. Expect this story to be the sequel to the Cube, which everyone thought was cool, and too expensive to actually buy.
Second, expect the RIAA (and Apple Records) to SUE THE PANTS off of Apple! (And hear the Village idiot cry when his new, un-rippable CD's won't work on his new iPod).
It's got a 40 gig HD. battery lasts 10 hours. Software is open-source.
How is this apple thing a breakthrough? Firewire is nice and all, but...
Not only is this a lackluster MP3 unit
Considering that it's got far more memory than your average 128MB MP3 portable, and that it's clearly smaller and more portable than a Nomad, I think this is a hasty judgement.
which by virtue of being firewire will be limited to Apple Mac owners
PCs have access to FireWire, as does Linux. The direct connection to iTunes is the only Mac-only feature that I can see; I should hope Apple will be smart enough to enable compatability with PCs, or if not, develop a Windows version of iTunes to do the same job.
but it has virtually no UI wizardry that might define it as an Apple product.
It has a six-line LCD display, backlit, a simple four-button interface, and a circular scroll wheel to navigate your songs (which can organize by CD, artist, or your own custom playlists). You call that "virtually no UI"?
Methinks some people's "first post" ambitions are getting in the way of a decent review of the features.
Perhaps you didn't notice Apple itself referring to this product as a "breakthrough" when they first announced the media event?
Think, McFly, THINK.
-AC
So at what point does Apple violate the terms of the agreement with Apple Records for ripping off the name and logo? At what point have they engaged in music-related business?
Apple makes a portable music player... whoopee. It has some advancements over typical MP3 players, but my god it's NOT revolutionary.
How lame can it get?!?! Just found the requirements on the website To add insult to injury: Mac OS 9.2.1 or Higher FireWire built-in Itunes 2 *Not released till early Nov to the general public*
How many other players have that? Plus acts as a firewire data drive, (full data transfer in 10 min!), has 20 minute skip protection. I have been waiting to get a portable MP3 player. Guess it has payed off big time. My order is already in!
There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes. -- Dr. Who
why release a propritary mp3 player when it should be so easy to add USB connectivity to it as well. It may suck compared to firewire - but I want my MP3's from my Windows 2K server, or my Linux server.
I think Apple is trying to pull a little "Mi[ro$of7" marketing on this one.
Jesse Wolfe Sr. Manager Systems Integration
Wireless? For an MP3 player? just so you can hear music 150 feet way? How fucking stupid can you be?
Look at what it is.
It has the BEST interface to date.
It connects with FireWire for blazingly fast DLs and NO charging cable! It charges over the FireWire connection.
It works as a FireWire drive so you can carry your files and such with you.
Show me another device that has ALL of the above.
You biased, short-sighted bastard.
The other news that you may have missed is that iTunes 2 will be released in "early November" and will FINALLY feature an equalizer and is supposed to burn CDs twice as fast. This free upgrade may be of more significance to us poor Mac users ;)
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
You mean other then the scroll pad, and the seriously small number of controls and options on it? (yes, cutting down on choice is a UI feature, and one that Apple is very good at)
Having it all go through iTunes is also a good UI choice (a no brainer for Apple of corse), you don't need to deal with another little lame MP3 manager (my most despised part of my Rio). Of corse once you have more then 5G of music you actually have to do work...
Still, not the product for me. I don't really need all that much music when I'm not already next to my laptop, or my car stereo...
...but lately it seems as its the favorite form of response for many of the people to this product. It's very small, very light, made of stainless steel so likely very rugged, using FireWire so it's _very_ fast, and most importantly for Apple consumers -- it integrates nearly seamlessly with their existing hardware and software thus _very_ easy.
It may not be what a lot of you technogeeknophiles want, but for the majority of Apple customers, I think they'd be more than happy with it. It's a good portable audio media player compliment to their system, likely the best you could find at the moment, plus it makes a convenient portable FireWire drive.
So I don't get all the vitrol. No, it's not a PDA. It's not a toaster, either. So get off your high horses and evaluate it for what it is instead of what it's not.
oh yeah, and did i mention that it doubles as a portable firewire HARD DRIVE?
http://kered.org
Agreed. AirPort-ready would be cool, but it'd take forever.
Now...Recharging through FireWire? 10 hours drain, 1 hour recharge? That is awesome...
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Like more than a dozen people actually have 1000 hours of LEGAL music. That's like 1000 CDs. Or, about $15,000 worth of CDs. Apple joins the piracy tool supporters of the world.. right on! Fight for your "freedom!"
A plane is pressurized. If the plane lost cabin pressure you wouldn't be able to use it, but you would have bigger worries than your mp3s. This just means when you go hiking in Switzerland, you can't use it over 10,000ft.
This thing is awesome.
Pix and Info
http://www.apple.com/ipod/
Well? Is that true?
I read the cnet article and went to the apple store but there was no mention of anything.
The mention of firewire and iTunes make me suspect it is only a mac peripheral. And that would suck.
Any help here?
Pete
The sole purpose of the Internet is to get porn and bomb making plans into the hands of children.
It should be noted that 'FireWire' is IEEE 1394 and is availible BUILT IN to many Sony PC products under the 'iLink' name, and is availble to any other PC user in the form of a IEEE 1394 card.
It seems like a good way to provide non-content protected MP3 technology to the masses, which is good for those of us who don't want the masses to support RIAA crippleware or other protected options. Remember, if you don't support the reasonably good products, the even worse ones will take over.
While I don't see it in the system specs for this device, I think it might be possible to hook it up to other devices such as DV camcorders and firewire hardrives for data syncing. One of the advantages that firewire has over USB is that it's computer independant. For example, I mightput a 100gig hardrive in my car, and use the iPod to pull music and playlists off of it. Which would be way cool.
Maskirovka
I just checked at the Apple Store. Oh well.
sulli
RTFJ.
It's Apple, and Mac-heads will buy it. But they're the only ones!
...
... using FireWire? Which most Windows people don't have. Just cut your market by 85%
... I can get a 20 gb for less.
... AGAIN. When will they learn?
From the website:
"Holds over 1000 songs"
- I've seen better for less.
"Weighs just 6.5 ounces -- fits in your pocket"
- That's neat, but not enough to be a major selling point.
"Plays up to 10 hours with 20 minute skip protection"
- What skip is it protecting against for 20 minutes? We're not talking about optical (CD) media here
"Auto synchronize all your music with iTunes"
- Now that is kinda cool (:
"Transfer a whole CD in less than 10 seconds"
-
"Charge with the included power adapter or over FireWire"
- Interesting, actually making good use of the firewire port, which most Windows people don't have. Just cut your market by 85%
"Breakthrough UI with an innovative scroll wheel"
- ABOUT DAMN TIME! Too bad they can't put it on a friggen mouse!
"60 mWatt amp power high-fidelity sound earbude"
- Ok
"Ultra-slim 5-gigabyte hard drive doubles as FireWire disk"
- 5 gigs? Come on
Apple is selling an overpriced, under spec`ed item to its tiny market
~Loudmusic
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
I wouldn't mind if they released iTunes of some sort for the PlayStation 2 and I could either use some of my CDs to transfer mp3s onto it via the PS2, or maybe it would even (if it were a full-featured package) support ripping audio CDs directly to mp3s via the DVD-ROM drive as well, too. I wouldn't mind buying one of these if it had software to work with the PlayStation 2... otherwise, I don't especially feel like trying to hack together my own firewire drivers for the device so I can use it on FreeBSD, in addition to buying a PCI firewire card.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
$400 is a bit steep. Now, if it had a Fm modulator so i could listen to it in the car, then, well, drop the price to $300, it might sell decently.
Oh, and make Win and Linux drivers for it.
Well, I was hoping for something along the lines of the Terapin Mine, especially after seeing how well the new iBook and TiBook came out, but this thing is destined to fail. For $400 you can get a 5GB MP3 player that will only (officially) work on Macs running the very latest versions of the MacOS, but will run for 10 hours. Or, for half the price, you can get a smaller MP3 player and enough batteries and flash cards to keep most people happy, and which won't depend on the computer you use, and for the rest of the price you could get a low-end 3GB Digital Wallet for more storage. I can't offload my digital pictures to an iPod. I can't move files to any computer I want on an iPod. I can't use standard rechargeable batteries in an iPod. I can't find a reason to buy an iPod.
How many computer makers let you into the case without turning screws? How many include an incredibly useful and easy-to-use external connection port like FireWire? How many include digital video editing? How many ship an optical mouse standard? How many include a full productivity suite? How many include a DVD-R/CD-RW drive as standard? How many have given up CRTs and moved on to LCDs, the displays of the future? One.
Apple is the innovator in the industry. If you can't see that, then you're blind. Everyone else has been playing catch-up since 1984.
All they did was take small, firewire hard drive technology that someone else developed and then add a little layer of glitz to it. It seems to me that virtually all of the "marvelous engineering" was done by the hard drive manufacturer...not by Apple. They just added a layer of candy coating.
Even the headphones that come with the iPod are phenomenal. They've been engineered with Neodymium transducer magnets for enhanced (20 -- to 20,000-Hz) frequency response and stunning, high-fidelity sound.
I think they're making that up. They called up the Star Trek guys and said "we need some technobabble..." Or can someone explain just what the heck a Neodymium transducer magnet is?
The new Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy cards have a SB1394 port which is a renamed FireWire / IEE1394 port. Or you can buy one for 75$. Furthermore they will be common next year as Intel tries to kill serial and parallel ports.
Yeah, give Apple some credit for biting at least 3 other companies' ideas, and being 3 yrs late jumping on the bandwagon. Innovative my ass.
...which by virtue of being firewire will be limited to Apple Mac owners...
You mean, people who own Apple Macs like these?
Since the iPod can double as a normal portable hard drive. I'm sure it will likely be pretty easily used on a PC. And if it's not, big deal. It might be nice for the other half to see how THEY like having their perfectly-good platform ignored, and having to hack a product to make it usable on their systems.
And if you haven't noticed, it is possible to buy a FireWire card for a PC that doesn't already come with it.
I won't buy one until the unit is available in at least lime, strawberry, and grape color.
Amazing magic tricks
(OK, it's a semi-troll - it's just fun to theorize about CmdrTaco / VA Linux / OSDN conspiracies)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Lets see, in a portable mp3 player, you're looking for a few key features:
Size
Battery Life
Capacity
Price
The Nomad blows the iPod away in capacity, as do CD-R players, but they are both far larger and heavier. The Nomad in particular isn't really portable. The iPod is practically small enough to hide it in the palm of your hands. Of course, then there is the battery life problem.
Then there are the solid state players, with 32 or 64 megs of memory. They are small, have great battery life, and are cheap, but they don't hold enough music to make even their low cost worth paying.
Apple termed it wrong, the iPod isn't a breakthrough. It's just another evolutionary step in consumer electronics, but an important one. While there are other players with larger capacities, smaller sizes, or cheaper price tags, the iPod is the first to really hit that sweet spot between each of those requirements. (OK, I admit, at $300, it would be a much much better deal.)
I bet you would be proclaiming it to be the second coming.
So it's only 6GB. First off, that's a *lot*. It's about 100 CD's. How many CD's, MiniDiscs, 64MB flash cards, etc, does it take to equal that? Only a couple of HD-based systems are as convenient, and they all have other, more critical problems.
All other HD based players' problems tend to be slow speed (USB, let alone performance), large size, poor battery life, and horrible interfaces. All but performance is *definitely* better in the iPod just based on the specs and demos. Performance has yet to be seen.
iPod lame? Perhaps. It's just that everything else is more lame.
-node 3
it's not the iWalk or newton or whatever. I wanted that too, but it's still in the pipeline then... this is here now and it's hardly lame. the size of a rio, the style of apple, and the space of a nomad jukebox. it's expensive, but with apple you pay the price to be years ahead of the pack. iPod, depsite having a stupid name, should sell well. it'll make a good xmas present...
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. - Initial
One thing I haven't seen addressed here yet, is that this device appears to be "Mac-only". That's their choice, but it seems to be a really poor one. They just chopped of their potential marketshare by 95%.
If you notice in the "About" menu under the iPod, there's a version number, which implies that the firmware is can be update, although it's nothing new for mp3 players, this isn't simply an mp3 player. Being a 5GB FireWire hard drive as well, makes me think this has the possibility of being hacked into a PDA or running a Linux similar to that on the Palm.
The Nomad is also available at the Apple online store for $249 ($10 more than ThinkGeek).
Steve M
The iPod is suprisingly small, compare to the Archos (which is quite a bit smaller than the Creative Nomad):
Dimensions: 115 x 83 x 34 mm. (4.5 x 3.2 x 1.3")
Weight: 350 g (12.3 oz.)
Of course the Archos is cheaper, can record, and supports up to 30GB (just swap drives). The Archos drivers have no digital rights protection, and no special software. The device just appears as a standard USB external drive (FAT32) when you plug it in.
Firewire is quite appealing, consider copying a few GB at USB speeds... ughhhh.
another expesive mp3 player?? you've got to be kidding me... I dont give a rats hind end about specs... and apparently niether do many electronics consumer purchasers, or we'ld all have HDTV, DAT, G4 w/ superdrives, etc, etc... if i can find an mp3 player with 1 hour of music, a clip on case, and a USB connetion for 99 bucks, why... why... in the name of God, why would i want to pay 300 more for a few more features... the players out there are "Good Enough"!!!!!! Why enter this market?
...
this is Pippen all over again... horrably expencive, underpower, woafully unsupported, in a market full of Segas, playstations and nintendos... of course, it had the potential of leveraging apples huge library of games =0
probabably closer to Apples "revolutionary" $600 "Cd Player" (single speed, 1 bit, pathetic) back in the early 90's... Ohh that was impressive.. you could plug it into your stereo, or you could plug it into your computer, or both (if, IF, you could find a reliable 20' long SCSI cable)... In a workd of $600 cd player/ CD ROMs, one that could do both was a good idea.. but by the time apple did it.. 4 bit cd players had dropped below $200, 4 speed cd-roms rom were almost as cheap.. and soon after every new computer and boom box had one in it anyway....
Apple's success with this device will be defined by what the follow it up with. This device has some interesting features and a price tag at the high end of the MP3 player spectrum. Combined with a set of complementary offerings the idea of a home media/data/communications/entertainment system based on Apple products becomes an attractive, if expensive, proposition.
We actually looked at (but didn't build) a design much smaller the Apple unit (it's a PCMCIA drive with a similar form factor battery, lcd etc - the size of a credit card but 1/2 inch thick - probably 10 hr battery life) - the trouble is that the parts cost is ridiculous - final retail would end up near $7-800.
There's a basic problem in the harddrive biz - prices don't go down below a certain floor (the disks just get denser for a partiocular form factor) this limits the lowest price that will see consumer uses.
Personally I suspect that Nomad is being sold pretty close to cost - they're pushing for market share, they really can't be making much (if any) money.
IMHO USB is not a big deal - mainly because USB can happily keep up with a ripper - and with 5G (or 20G) you tend to load all your CD collection (damn I really really want that 100G drive) and carry it around with you
Don't we have enough of these mp3 players? 5G is awfully small for an mp3 player to begin with; I have over 140GB of live trance sessions on my computer ATM.
...and CmdrTaco's blatant, pathetic bias comes forward in a heaping unquestionable mound.
Does anyone take this kid seriously anymore?
What exactly makes this one lame? Firewire? Just because OS X has flawless firewire, and linux doesn't have squat, slashdot has to rag on it. What's disturbing is that some people actually rely on slashdot for news.
Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...
...
...
...
Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port
Raise your hand if you have both
Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device
There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.
~LoudMusic
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
The Apple product has 83% of the storage space, 20.% of the volume, and transfers files 16500% faster (assuming 2.4 Mb/s USB spec and 50MB/s firewire, im unsure).
Just because Apple didn't choose to significantly increase its volume by adding a 802.11a antenna, just to add a *very* slow transmittal solution (compared to its firewire), means it's "lame?"
I don't have a religious bent for or against Apple; when intelligent people make these kinds of comments, it confuses me.
Oh goody. Another over-priced MP3 player with too many bells and whistles. And a price that's way higher than it should be.
All I want is a decent MP3. I want one that supports some sort of smart media card, supports at least 128MB, and has USB. And most importantly, doesn't cost $400! Is that too much to ask? The Diamond Rio 500 came closest to that, but of course it's not made anymore (and cost too much anyway). Instead, SonicBlue produces the vastly inferior Rio 600 or the way over-priced 800. If I can buy a camcorder for $300, a freaking MP3 player oughta be under $100.
I don't need a built-in CD player (that's why I have MP3's fer crissakes!) I don't need a built-in hard drive. I don't need a goddamn built-in toaster oven. I just want a little MP3 player that holds more than 5 songs that I can stick in my pocket when I go for a walk. I certainly don't need to put my entire MP3 collection on it all at once.
Let's see a cheap MP3 player that does one thing exceptionally well, instead of an overpriced MP3 player that does half a dozen things poorly.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
looks like the 'hot shit'
Apple (AAPL) essentially already violated that. The engineers, at least, seem to think they violated it when they added sound effects, speakers, and microphones.
Therefore, one of the original sound fx was called Sosumi ("so - sue - me")
Your daily dose of apple trivia.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
According to Maccentral, Jobs said he would consider looking at Windows down the line, but right now iPod and iTunes are Mac only.
"We have thought than when we get a little spare time, we will look at taking it to Windows. We know the experience won't be as good, but we will probably look at that down the road."
FWIW.
Link here.
You laugh at Maxtor, but then you talk about getting a WD drive? HAHAHAH! As far as I'm concerned Western Digital takes a shit and puts it in a 3.5" box.. thats how much respect I have for their hardware. WD drives fail.. Maxtor is where it's at.
Although I immediately felt a little let down by this release--after all the hype--after thinking about it a little more, I'm convinced that this iPod is cool.
I use iTunes, so the seamless integration is nice. I have different mp3s in my work library than at home. I don't have a portable HD or burner, so I never bothered to sync my two libraries... with the iPod, I definitely will.
The price point is a bit high, but then again, I've been shopping for a portable player for a long time and they're all pretty expensive.
I'm guessing that this thing runs OS X underneath. Assuming this is so, the hacks could be pretty awesome. Firewire devices are becoming more and more prevalent... maybe this tiny little device will come in handy.
Guvegrra?
GPL considered harmful.... Yes, the explicit purpose of the GPL is to hurt programmers' livelihoods. See Richard Stallman's essay, "The GNU Manifesto," for a frank statement that this is the case. Mr. Stallman does not care whether the programmers harmed by the GPL are working for Microsoft or trying to eke out an honest living despite Microsoft; he wishes to put all of them out of business. Trouble is, it's much easier to hurt the little guy than it is to hurt Microsoft, so guess who suffers?
It is, in fact, ironic just how much the FSF's strategies resemble those of Microsoft.
Microsoft seeks to put other companies such as Netscape out of business by giving away free equivalents of every product they make. The Free Software Foundation seeks to put other companies out of business by giving away free equivalents of every products they make.
Bill Gates has all the money he wants but is motivated by a lust for power and control. Richard Stallman has all of the money he wants but is motivated by a lust for power and control.
Microsoft has a vast hoard of software whose development and licensing it controls. The FSF has an even larger hoard of software whose development and licensing it controls.
Meet the new boss -- same as the old boss.
It only fucks with people if you post it on the main page. As it is I had to come all the way down this thread.
luser.....
If you think about it this is a start: the next
step is to develop a brick that acts as a complete A/V unit over Ethernet or AirPort, so that you can store and forward digital video
to and from your Mac wirelessly.
So, fgsample, you play itunes on your mac and
a bunch of stereos in your big ass house play
the same tunes.
Second, have, say, 60gig hdd as a solid state video capture and playback system. You can
then use iMovie to store tv shows and watch
them later on your computer or elsewhere.
But that is a year or so away.
I'm replying to someone who might've been already modded into oblivion, but I'll try anyway.
Normally, it's difficult to trademark a word like Apple, but you can go ahead and try. It's NOT incredibly hard to defend a name like "Apple" in a relatively narrow field, like music. (It'd be much harder if, say, you were "Apple Sauces, Inc.) Furthermore, this already happened, and Apple Computer signed a settlement agreeing not to delve into music.
When they did, they said "so sue me"; see my post above.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Actually, you just made me think of a very convenient use for this device. (Assuming my knowledge of firewire is correct.)
How about using it as a storage device for your firewire camcorder or digital camera (if there are firewiere still cameras). Since firewire devices are peerless, it shouldn't be much of a problem to connect the devices.
Hardly a breakthrough. Fry's is currently selling the 6gig Archos Jukebox for $229. It uses USB vs the IPod's firewire but is approx. the same size w/ slightly less battery life (5-8 hours)and also acts as an all purpose, portable, USB harddrive. (drive is upgradable to 20 and 30 gig). I love mine. Can you put a 20/30 gig drive in the IPOD? Firewire would be nice but The AJB is a bargain.
This is a marvel of engineering
Yes it certainly puts the Apollo program, the Golden Gate bridge and the Great Pyramids in their place...
Its a freakin' firewire hard drive... whoppy shit.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
- A new device that will serve as a bridge between your home
TV/stereo and your Mac. It will do all the work of a non-portable MP3
player, DVD player, VCR, and maybe a gaming console.
- It should connect to your TV and stereo via standard audio/video
input and output. It should connects to a Mac via firewire, Ethernet,
or airport (802.11). There should also be also a two-way remote
control for the device as well.
- The device I'm proposing should allow a Mac to read and write
video/audio from a home TV/stereo. This allows the device to serve
MP3 audio from the Mac's harddrive, play quicktime video on the TV
(including iMovie created video), record and play back TV similar to
the TiVo, use it to play Internet-multiplayer games on your TV, and
display your digital pictures on the TV. I believe the system would
even allow the Mac to display a DVD from its drive on to the TV as
well. In addition, if you have a VCR, you can use the device to
import VHS home video into iMovie.
- Now, let's look at the hardware required. All the box needs to
be able to do is encode and decode digitalaudio and maybe perform some
lightweight compression/de-compression. The box has an embedded
(slow & cheap) version of a PowerPC in it. The box has some amount of
DRAM, but no hard drive, since it can just use the Mac's hard drive.
It has just enough flash memory to net-boot from the connected Mac.
What operating system does the device run? Well, Darwin, of course!
Since the digital hub device boots from the Mac, it has almost no hard
state, and thus the software can be upgraded by installing new
software on the Mac.
- The above description is actually quite similar to many of the
hardware firewall devices that use an embedding chip and Linux or
*BSD. You can buy these for under $100. Apple's new device would
needs to add a little bit of support for encoding and decoding, but I
would guess the final street price of the device would be under $200.
- The biggest challenge with this device would providing enough
bandwidth to send TV quality video between the two systems. Apple's
wireless has 11 Mbs, or ~1MB/second bandwidth max. DVDs hold ~5 GBs
of data for ~2 hours of viewing. That's ~0.7MB/second for the
compressed stream. It should be pretty easy to downgrade the signal
from DVD quality to a TV quality signal, compress it a bit, and send
it from the Mac to the Hub staying well below the 1MB/second bandwidth
limit.
- Clearly, this new device could take full advantage of Mac OS
X/Darwin. Darwin could be used on the device, and Mac OS X's
stability and multitasking support is needed to run the software for
it on the host Mac in the background. In fact, multiple processors
would work nicely for this application...
- There have been rumors that Nintendo and Apple might be teaming
up. A device like this would be the perfect opportunity for Nintendo
to avoid fighting against the XBox and the PlayStation.
With a move like this, Apple could take control of the home entertainment system. (Yes, this is similar to the post I made on the previous topic today.)it's /.-ed
While most Mac owners may not hang out here on Slashdot, there are quite a few of us around... Apple shipped 850,000 machines in the last year alone... This will sell...
RateVegas.com - Vegas Reviews
Yep, pretty lame. A pocket size 5-GB harddrive that can play MP3s as well as double as a backup device. And with a 10-hour battery life and firewire. Lame.
I've ordered two.
Come on. You wouldn't have bought one anyway...it says Apple on it, so it's automatically uncool.
Apple's market for this device is...Apple's market. Why are you surprised?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Under the requirements it lists MacOS. Useless for those of us that don't have a new mac. This isn't a serious attempt to mass market a consumer mp3 player, but rather just a way to get more money out of their customers.
whether it is cool or not doesn't matter to me, I can't use it.
I think most sets of $20+ headphones have Neodymium magnets and 20-20kHz frequency response. Next thing you know they'll be bragging that their circuits use "state of the art semiconductors etched by particle-waves travelling at 3 hundred million meters per second."
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
right on.
This one costs too much for me, but then, I'm a library CD checking cheapskate. But there are a couple interesting features:
First, this is an interesting addition to Apple's digital hub idea. To the extent that this is intended to be a relatively low volume perk to Apple devotees, the price suddenly seems less important that its coolness. In other words, this is a good idea as long as Apple does not expect to sell more than a few to people who already use Mac products. Surely, they have done some thinking about the demand for a product of this type at this price range (i.e., pretty low). Even so, I think Jobs also indicated that this is just the first in a line of other similar products. Would you be interested in buying a Mac if there were a whole host of these types of little, happy toys available? I would.
Second, does anyone know about any "digital rights management" on this thing? I didn't hear anything about it, and that is good news in light of Microsoft's and the RIAA's plans for our music collections.
So, "lame?" Maybe for most of us, but this could be pretty smart move by Apple if they have planned right.
Wasn't the 6GB Nomad $400 when it first came out? Could you use that as a HD? Could you fill it up in under a minute? Could you charge it over the same cable you were loading it up with? Did it automatically sync with your computer? Nope.
Get off your high horse and realize that just because the individual comonents aren't unique, the combination of them all is, and that's why it'll sell, regardless of whether some /. moderator thinks so.
today is spelling optional day.
This thing has _20_minutes_ of skip protection!
Actually it has 32MB RAM cache. This must be a for battery saving/drop protection. Spin up the disk only when necessary.
But I have to wonder why would you want to buffer more than one song?
Since when is Apple concerned about market share? They do what capitalism was born to do. Cater to a small market, and do it the right way.
/did/ (and many do/will have OSX within the next year), this piece of gear was BORN for that market. All while keeping Apple gear at the front of the pack in terms of usability, transfer speed, and respectable battery life.
.. you'll understand why having a big market share essentially garauntees tha you you have to give up innovation. Heck, Intel shipped their latest chip with features /disabled/ .. so I, for one, am glad that apple is content to own just a small slice of the pie, because its the most /delicious/ slice.
I don't have an OSX box, and consequently, no firewire and iTunes, but if I
Apple has never been about selling the most number of units. Just look at the market leaders for cars, OSes, books, movies, CDs
And no, I dont own any Apple gear. I wish I could justify it tho; unfortunately, MS keeps underselling quality, thus keeping wk2 on the the corperate desktop, and *nix just happens to serve the 'net industry better than anyone else.
"Old man yells at systemd"
I just don't get why anybody wants a portable music device like this, or at least enough people to justify such a product's existence.
When I look around, most people are not walking down the street (or wherever) listening to music devices, be they tape, CD, or MP3 players. Ocasionally, I'll see a jogger or some spikey-haired teenager listening to one, but they're hardly as commonplace as PDAs.
Do people think that many people just NEED to have gigs of music with them at all times? I don't get it.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
firewire on car stereos....
Argh, this would be far cooler if you could plug in new codecs, like, say, Ogg.
-nate
what and where?
Yes, we know it's overpriced and underpowered, but it looks pretty so buy it.
Upgrades will be available when we fill the plastic mold machines with a different pigment. Buy those too.
Apple: Our boxes are prettier than your boxes.
Innovative my ass.
From the Microsoft Press Dictionary:
Innovate [verb]: To copy what has been done by others.
Steve M
Count me in on all of the above except the $$ thing.
My next machine will most likely be an ibook. I paricularly like its feel, its OS (darwin/OS X), and its hardware. No way in hell do I want to sit round while I transfer mp3's from my computer to my portable player. Thats for low tech luddites.
-b
PS USB is a bit slow for this application.
Big shock that /.ers would be bitching about this device. It's not a Windows or Unix product so let the bashing begin. Sometimes it seems that /. is less like news for nerds and more like the nerds version of Oprah.
This isn't Apple's main product after all but an enhancement to their existing line just as all of the other "i" products and web services are.
If you don't own a Mac, then buy one of the other mp3 players... or maybe you should pull that half-hacked iOpener out of your closet and build your own (just like you said you would).
Requirements
Apple computer with built-in FireWire port
Mac OS 9.2.1 (or later) or Mac OS X v10.1 (or later)
iTunes 2 software (included)
Yes it can act as a FireWire hard drive. But it's NOT A FIREWIRE HARD DRIVE. Chances are Linux and Windows won't know what it is when you plug it in, and I bet Apple never writes drivers for it, nore will they write iTunes for other OSes.
Pay attention to what Apple is doing! They're in their own little world and they don't want to talk to anyone else!
~LoudMusic
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Evil question, I know, but can anyone other than a Mac user make use of this puppy? Are we non-Mac guys going to have to wait for people to write Linux/Windows/Whatever software for it before using it on our non-Mac machines???
...I really wanted an iWalk.
sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
"Less space than a nomad. Lame."
Well so are you. I don't see YOUR mp3 player in the stores anywhere.
Ive seen some speculations here, so just to point out a few things. iPod uses HFS+ and will most likely only be able to read HFS plus as well as iTunes databases. The music files are 'hidden", and can not be seen in hard disk mode (except via command line). It wont ship with any PC or Linux drivers, so the people that want one should start thinking of good hacks now.... how to read and write HFS+, write to iTunes databases, and the file folder structures.
FreeAmp Plugin? Elrod?
People think Microsoft is the answer. Microsoft is just the question, "No" is the answer.
So does this mean the iPod will take over the bodies of the users and turn them into mindless drones?
OK, I have too many Apple punchlines going through my head to pick a best one. Please post your best punchline here. Moderators to vote which one is the best. :)
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
To be honest, this is going to be a low margin product and probably won't make Apple too much money. But for Mac users that want a way cool MP3 player they'll be the envy of their Windoz friends. Its about time. You don't like it? Fine. You love it but don't have a Mac? Tough Tooties. Welcome to what used to be our world!
Goofy internal projects, expensive gaffes trying to "diversify" into areas it has only a tenuous relationship to, a complete inability to understand markets, and a constitutional immunity against learning from their mistakes.
There is no future in a $400 (about $250 too expensive) firewire-only (5% of computer users) hardrive-based (read: fragile) mp3 player. Any one of these critical flaws might doom the product - take them all together and you have another classic corporate farce.
When you see silliness on this level, though, normally you expect to see a raging egotist who is immune to common sense and criticism in some position of power in the company... oh wait, Steve Jobs. Never mind.
This just reinforces my steadily growing sense of foreboding about Apple. Yes, I've said this before and been wrong, but I'll say it again anyway. They're living on borrowed time.
We're on the road to Tycho.
This thing is just begging to be hacked. Its capability to be used as a data drive indicates that it is probably using a standard file system. With 5GB of disk space and 32MB of memory (and FIreWire), this device could be pretty capable. Judging from Apple's current mood, I wouldn't be suprised if the OS was a stripped down BSD. How long before we see non-music apps for this baby? I bet a direct interface for downloading pictures from your digital camera is not far away. An PIM would be nice but seriously hampered by the limited input controls. What else could be done?
;-)
I hope that the next generation includes a color screen. Not only would a visualizer be nice but I'd love to see a MAME port
How about considering
a) battery life (4 hour vs frigging TEN in the iPod!)
b) Uplink: Snail-USB at 1.x MB/s (how long would that take you to fill it up? Let's be nice and say 1-1.5 hours!) vs Firewire (10 mins to fill it up, 10 seconds for an album!)
c) Firewire-HD functionality: Pretty damn nice bonus feature I'd say!
d) Automatic recharge via Firewire! Neato!
e) size: Man, that thing is like HALF as big as the Nomad!
Now, one can always argue about design and UI, so i'll leave that out.. The Nomad has a slightly bigger HD and costs $100 less, which rocks, still the iPod is anything but lame compared to it if you look at all the pros up there!
..and all the PC-people out there: Yes, His Jobsness announced they WILL support Windows eventually! >;-)
You should take a look at how it WORKS. Hook it up, it begins charging via your Firewire port (10 hours of battery life!) and launchs iTunes. Create some playlists and send them to your iPod. Five minutes to fill up that 5GB.
Not only that, the interface is amazing. The menu system can actually be read by human eyes and easily browsed via the scroll wheel. Multiple playlists and can be listed via song OR artist.
Okay, so its yet another mp3 player. But this mp3 player fits in a shirt pocket and Apple didn't cute a single corner, they still somehow got a 5GB drive in that thing that costs the same damn price as the iPod itself, while at the same time making it as simple as possible to use. This is an mp3 player that passes the "mom test".
Burn Hollywood Burn
Haha, Apple definatly is good at cutting down on features. And quality.
Ow gosh, its just horrible.
The only really lame thing I've read so far are the comments people are posting. A quick scan so far results in only 2 comments garnering a 5 and 2 comments garnering a 4. I would like to go to one of the Apple Stores and try it out, see how it works. Then I'll say whether or not it's lame.
No. It is an apple product. As for a waste of time,It is a waste of your time.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinions no matter how stupid and inane. Please take your medication.
...they make their products for Mac users. Period. And I don't see this as a problem.
Apple places itself in the market to be the *prestigious* computer company, the Bang and Olfsen of PCs. Apple owners (which I will be when I start school next year and can get an educational discount) treat their computers as sacred. Apple may have a small market share, but their market share is fervently adamant about their products. (And justifiably so -- I think they make great hardware, and they make it easy enough for novices and powerful enough for nerds, not to mention stylish as hell.)
It's much akin to the religious fanaticism Open Source folks have toward spreading the Word about Linux and praising Linus Torvalds as a Jesus. I get as much criticism from Apple owners for begrudingly using Windoze as I do from Linux users. To keep this religion metaphor going as long as possible: it's one thing to oppose the evil Satan of Microsoft, but Linux-users and Apple-users arguing at this point is like the Pope arguing with Martin Luther over the 42 Theses -- you're both worshiping the same God, just one has more money than the other.
Okay, so that made very little sense, but it certainly sounded good.
This is what it boils down to, folks:
Apple has made a fairly smart business decision with iPod, saying to themselves, if we can't earn more market share, then let's give the market share we do have more items to buy. And they will becuase they're freaking crazy about our stuff. For Mac users, the iPod is most likely a super convienent, super cool MP3 player.
Those of you complaining that you can't use it on your PC or your Linux box or your TRS-80, go buy a Nomad because that's the market share you're in.
And good luck fitting that Nomad in your pocket. (Ha-ha!)
----------
Cheese it! It's the FEDS!
The iPod has 32MB of RAM, which it uses to buffer data from the HD. So it only has to turn on the HD every 20 minutes or so for just a few seconds to refill the RAM cache. The drive spends most of the time off and heads parked.
Saves tons of power, and should make it tough as nails.
a nomad jukebox will set you back 270 retail for 6GB. This thing is larger than and weighs more than a first generation discman and its just about as hard to run with (i know ive tried) becuase it has under 5 minutes of skip proection (to be fair i dont know if the 20 minutes on the ipod will help or not though)
Intel's 128 MB player - $299. about the same dimensions as the ipod... so that's why theyre scrapping it....
samsung 64MB player-$199 slightly smaller, tiny lcd
i2Go eGo MP3 Player- 399 from buy.com (499 retail) this thing has 340 MB flash memory and is slightly smaller than the ipod. with no lcd.
All that info was off buy.com as of 3pm today(they had some $100 players with 32MB or less that i didnt look at) you can check yourself if you want as.
The point is that this is a very good and competitively priced mp3 player even without the large screen easy to navigate menus, firewire connection/recharging and portable hard drive function. Its not revolutionary or all that special and the only complain that i could have about it is that it was so over hyped by apple. (I was really holding out for the apple teleportation device)
--aiee
This thing needs to be a PDA also. What CPU does it use?
Make that screen a little bigger, a touch screen. Add the Newton OS..
Fitness freaks look out. Not only does it manage your workout, but it stores your workout music. Heck, you could make a fitness program that changes songs (faster or slower beat) for different parts of the workout.
*shrug*
I want one of these with a little better quality screen and a car docking-station with integrated GPS (into the car docking-station).
Jason
Well, I can now raise my hand to both and happily.
I've only had it for a few days but it has been a pure joy. I've been a FreeBSD guy for years, but it's never been about the hassle; it's been about the stability. I added wireless support for this new machine with about three clicks. It comes with ssh and tools like that out of the box.
Apple has put out an amazing product here and the iBooks are freakin' nice too. I can't wait to see Titaniums w/ IBM's G5 in the next year or so!
They are more expensive, yes, but so much better of a product.
As usual, Apple appears to have crafted an idiot-proof UI for this thing. (See this marketing page.) After many months of enduring portable music device UI's that are about as intuitive as a 1980's casio keyboard, I am so ready to spill the $$$ for a device that it powerful and a pleasure to use.
Apple-bashers are constantly griping that they can get more for less money. I laugh at these fools because they are usually sitting in the corner scratching their heads while battling it out with some frustrating conflict or bug while the sweet Musak of tech support wafts around their pimply, unwashed ears.
Screw people that don't like Apple. If you were wondering why Apple would release a Mac-only device -- it's because they don't give a flying flip about people like you. Have fun in your Chevy Nova-quality world of value and pragmatism, losers.
Check out the mine, it's certainly more expensive but I think it lends itself to a greater versatility, USB is a limitation though.
iDontCare
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
How upgradeable is the software for this thing?
Will it be possible to upgrade the software to accept the Ogg Vorbis or other newer codecs? New ones are produced all the time, and MP3 will be changed and improved. Will you be able to upgrade the iPod, or will it become obsolete when everyone switches to a new codec that it can't play?
Note that the Fuji 1.8" 5GB PCMCIA drive costs $400.
Note that the iPod has a 1.8" 5GB hard drive (probably a Fuji, as Calluna who also made 1.8" drives went bust) plays music, has a display battery and firewire port, and also costs $400.
Bargain!
Slashdot owned by OSDN.
Thinkgeek owned by OSDN.
Thinkgeeks sells nomad.
Thinkgeek will not sell apple products.
Therefore nomad must be better.
Seriously, this looks like a great device. Faster, smaller and 5GB is tons of space. Don't dis innovation just cause it's apple.
The line was meant as a JOKE !?! ;-)
geez why is it you apple people have
to be so bloody zealous all the time
Keep in mind it's $400 right now becuase the Apple Fanatics will have to have one. They'll pay anything for the latest cool toy from Apple.
In 6 months, hopefully the rest of us will be buying the 20GB version for $200.
Oops. Martin Luther promulgated 95 Theses, not 42. Guess I should know my history before making historical references, a mistake akin to US involvement in Vietnam, after seeing how the French fared there.... Okay, I'll shut up.
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Cheese it! It's the FEDS!
according to the website, there is no support for PC, only MAC with Firewire.
which, really really really blows.
I have been looking for a good mp3 player for quite some time, and this had me REALLY excited for xmas, too bad I'll have to go buy a mac now if I want it...
There goes steve jobs, messing up his chances again. doesn't he realize he has to ATTRACT the rest of the computing world, not alienate it.
Why not just spend the $20 and get a damn firewire card? Ever tried transferring 5GB over USB? *Not* pretty.
Or did you mean to ask, "why doesn't Apple release iTunes for Windows?"
I dropped my white iBook a couple weeks ago. Well, not dropped so much as flung. I snatched the briefcase off a chest high pile of boxes, saw the lid come open, nearly caught the ibook with my other hand as it flew past me, hit the door and fell to the floor. (standard cheap office carpet over concrete)
Its a little bent. It only sits on two feet when on a flat surface, but other than that its fine. Heck, it didn't even reboot. Just woke right up from sleep when I opened it.
I'll bet they do at least as well with a handheld device.
he iPod is definately a cool little toy. Firewire support and the incredibly small form factor is truly a plus. Honestly, for what you get, $400 isn't really that horrible of a price. I realize that there are cheaper units with more space on the market, but they are USB devices (S L O W T R A N S F E R S) and are all rather large and clunky. I could actually see myself buying an iPod just because it gives me an mp3 player to stick in my hip pocket and carry around.
That said, the iPod will still bomb. While it really might be worth the money, people won't be willing to drop $400 for an mp3 player, especially when the US economy is already in the toilet, and getting worse daily. If Apple really wanted to be revolutionary and give us something new, this thing would cost no more than $300, enough money to buy a nice game console.
They both run the protocol, but the Sony version isn't powered (as all they expect you to plug into it are devices with their own power supplies, like camcorders).
So you won't be able to charge the iPod on any iLink devices.
______
Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
Ok, everyone keeps talking about the Nomad Jukebox and other similar players, and must of the crazy apple people have defended the iPod with it's other features.
but this crazy apple guy (that would be me) has a better defense....have you ever used the interface on the jukebox or other large MP3 players? they have horrible navigation, i cringe everytime at the idea of finding one paticulair song out of over a thousand on one of those players.
but the iPod is different, its taken a lot of influence from the iTunes software, the interface is intuitive easy to use and fast. You can sort by just about any tag, and furthermore it fully supports ID3 tags, not just ID3 v1.1, but all the way up to 2.3 i believe.
also, the iPod has a scroll wheel type thing on it to further help you navigate quickly.
maybe im insane, but ill take an overpriced, well designed, easy to use apple product any day over some cheap generic device.
SWGS
http://www.apple.com/airport/
:D
Hey, it's also a UFO
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
none of you have lives anyway...you are not the target market!!
and to the guy who said 'apple cut themselves out of 85% of the market'....
no they did not, they gave 85% of the market ANOTHER reason to buy a real computer. (let me define a real computer as one that makes your life easier- now does linux look so good? NO!)
you are all pissed because linux SUCKS on the desktop, and will never dent Micr OS oft; mac os has a chance at succeeding, while your os does not.
and while we are at it, i want a version of linux that runs windows binaries natively, a sparc compatible email profiling platform that also runs natively on linux and a playstation emulator that allows region encoded dvds as well.
dont have one, well thats what i want so linux is lame...
Raise your hand if you have iTunes
Bundled for free on every Mac sold in the last 18 months, and installed retroactively on god only knows how many other ones. Easily in the high hundreds of thousands, possibly in the millions.
Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port...
Every iMac, PowerMac, iBook and Powerbook sold in the last two years, plus almost every Sony VAIO and a good chunk of Compaq and HP's product lines. Easily in the millions.
Raise your hand if you have both.
See above.
Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device...
Looking at the sales of (picking three examples) Pilots, Rios and Digital Cameras, I'd say the number of people willing to spend $200-500 on a "cute" electronic device is "lots and lots."
There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.
I guess you don't. This is why Apple is a company with $4 Billion in the bank, and you're trolling on slashdot. Want fries with that?
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Raise your hand if you have iTunes
Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port
Raise your hand if you have both
Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device
What, is there a large market for mp3 players with people who don't own computers?
Apple knows that their biggest market is existing Apple customers. If Apple sells one of these for every 5 iBooks they sell, they'll be sitting pretty.
Why should Apple fund a software team to port iTunes to Windows, just so they get a few $400 slim margin sales of an mp3 player?
Better to let the Windows users wish they had an iPod, and go out and buy an iBook to get it.
Apple's finally learning to bring the market to them, instead of chasing it all over the map.
I haven't seen either of these points mentioned.
One: using firewire, the iPod can hotsync almost instantaneously with your Macintosh. That's very thoughful. The longer that I use technology, the less patient I get. I'd pay a little extra for this speed.
Two: what is the target market? The answer seems to be age 12-25 (junior high to college). These individuals are somewhat less price sensitive (assuming that their parents are paying) and are more likely to be sold by the flashy technology and design. If you agree (with some minor provisions), then you'll accept that Apple has a chance to win young converts to its platform. If this works, it's very attractive for Apple's future.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
They would have to be incredibly stupid not to include Windows support for this device. They've clearly sunk some R & D dollars into this device, and if they want to recoup those dollars they need to sell as many as possible. And remember-- FireWire is Apple's baby. If they can sell a million iPods to PC users that means a million PC's with FireWire ports, which thereby expands the market for Apple's other firewire-enabled devices.
If they're smart, they're working on a PC version of iTunes, or with existing MP3 players to get iPod compatibility. They can make sure that the Mac version is out first and has the best compatibility, but it's icing on the cake if they can sell a bunch of them to PC users as well.
This is *not* a zero-sum game. Apple not only gets the revenue from the devices themselves, but if these devices are popular they promote FireWire and they get their name out in front of the public reaping opportunities for future efforts like this. I wouldn't be surprised if they release analogous devices for digital video/DVD playback in the next year or two, thereby expanding on the "digital hub" analogy that they've been pushing since January.
Exactly. And Apple, who has been making profit during this recession, releases the premiere, soon to be the most widely used, and best distro of unix - OS X.
VA Linux on the other hand, is going in the toilet.
Thank you.
This device probably works a lot like most digital cameras and MP3 players. Music is most likely stored in a folder located on the music player's harddisk. Anything in that folder can be played by the MP3 player's software.
It will be interesting to see what drive format apple picked for this device. If it is HFS+ or UFS some folks might need to install 3rd party software to see the device.
All in all, this thing is basically a harddisk with a firewire port and some mp3 software (wonder if it is burned into ROM or not). Just like a digital camera that is a flash card with USB... it should be able to be used on any machine with half ass device support.
At the very least on could drag and drop their music in this devices music directory.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
recharges/transfers with firewire
integrates with iTunes
mac ease of use
lame:
expensive
As a happy iBook/Mac OSX user, I would definitely consider getting one of these (if I was made of money). The size limitation doesn't bother me so much seeing as how 1.) you can (theoretically) completely fill the drive in 2 minutes and 2.) it'd take you a lifetime to listen to the entire contents of a Nomad, while taking almost four hours to fill. Plus, the Nomad takes rechargeables/AA.
The biggest problem with it is the cost, IMHO
Sean
Hey do not bust on the man. Thanks to him, Apple is finally making really good products. I am sure that we will see more from jobs & co in the coming months..
Long Live OSX
For the best audio quality, simply carry around uncompressed WAV's. The specs indicate that WAV is one of the supported music formats. Assuming 700 MB per CD, 5 GB of storage still gives you enough room to hold 7 uncompressed CD's. Pretty cool if you ask me.
Don't put that WD drive in a plastic case.. they are fragile enough without being lugged all over the place.
Yes, it will sell because Beelzejobs could package his own turd with an Apple logo and you'd buy that too.
Exibit 1: iWalk
Exibit 2: iPod
These two products look nothing alike, exept for their rectangular shape. Perhaps the iWalk is fictional, but it is not related to the iPod in any way.
(It is my understanding that your post is implying that someone took the iPod, and "photoshopped" a new name on it. If that is not what you intended to imply, perhaps you should expound on your points a bit more...)
Just wondering what type of battery is used?
User replaceable? Cost?
Just a couple of the gotya's that can ruin a great product.
How can anyone complain about the HD size? To me it would look like the batteries would run out before you get to listen to all the songs. Looks like a kick ass walkman replacement.
What would REALLY rock is if Apple entered into a deal with one/more major car audio manufacturers to place a FireWire connection on the front of the car stereo. Then, by connecting the iPod via a Firewire cable to the car stereo's FireWire jack, the car stereo would be able to play the music as if it were a CD changer AND the iPod would run off the car battery...
True, kinda. It comes with an AC charger. You don't HAVE to charge while connected to the PC. But it's a nice option if you can.
Carl G. Jung
--
"With one breath, with one flow, You will know Synchronicity" -La Policia
maybe he's saying it's lame since...
... it "[A]int an [M]P3 [E]ncoder"???
the price ($400) is still a little too much for a fresh grad student like me who's going to have a tough time finding a job...
my blog
I'm a little new at firewire, so maybe someone can answer this question for me.
In our NOC at work we have a habbit of copying CD's that are used often to the network for easy access. We do this by placing the CD directly into the file server that will be holding the data, so there's no network file transfers going on.
Some of our file servers are not SCSI, but they do use ATA100 and still perform quite well. When we copy a full 650M CD to these servers it takes longer then 10 seconds. In this situation we've got 100MB/sec. transfer rate available, but it still takes longer then 10 seconds. I understand fine that there's overhead involved, and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make.
Even though ATA100 gives you a theoretical ceiling of 100MB/sec. you'll likely never see it. That's twice the bandwidth of IEEE1394 but it still takes longer then 10 seconds. So why is everyone treating this "10 seconds" fact about the iPod as fact? Is fireware really capable of moving data that fast?
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
I think recharging through *AirPort* would be a good idea. I wonder what would happen when your cat walked through the wireless electrical stream, though.
Ryan
"All your base are belong to this file I send in order to have your advice."
Alright, how many of these people are the type that want a portable Mp3 device? Maybe half. We have 35+ Macs that would support the iPod where I work. Of the "Mac users" that use them, only one or two would even think of buying a portable Mp3 player, and they'd probably get something more "universal". And they didn't have to buy the expensive Mac in the first place!!
~LoudMusic
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
50MB/s is the max throughput for firewire.
Odds are, the drive can't handle the full bus speed.
If it's using the Toshiba 1.8" drive, you're looking at a top end of 12MB/s, which means a about 50x the speed of USB.
(assuming it's the same drive that someone pointed out in another post, is listed for $400, without the mp3 playing ability, at smartdisk.com)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Apple had been touting some amazing new product release this week. For the last week, everyone has been talking about how it had to be somethign revolutionary and stunning that would turn the computer world on its head (which is, afterall, what Apple seemed to suggest in all their limited comments about it).
And what does it turn out to be? A rather bland duplicate of what every other company has already been selling for ages. Whoo. And MP3 player. Amazing -- and only how many months/years too late?
Next time some Mac nazi tries to tell me how innovative and forward-thinking Apple is compared to the PC market, I'm going to ram my foot up his ass, along with a printout of this article.
Apple is behind Firewire 100% it seems. Good for them. You can only use this device with Mac OS 9.2+ and iTunes 2. Tons of machine with those specs have Firewire. Adding USB (and then USB2) would just add to the size and complexity of the device. Did you complain with video cameras didn't come with USB? USB sucks with my 64Mb MP3 player. It must be simply awful with 5Gb. I suppose you are still mourning for the lowly 1.44Mb floppy drive too.
Apple *says* that you can access the iPod as if it were a normal 5 GB Firewire hard drive.. This isn't that complicated. Writing a windows or Linux client that talks to this thing's hard drive and transfers mp3s to and fro couldn't possibly be even the tiniest bit complicated. Even if they're using some crazy proprietary filesystem for the iPod-- which i don't see why they'd go to the bother-- disassembling iTunes and figuring out how it talks to the machine would likely be effortless. Apple doesn't need to "support" windows and linux-- freeware authors can do that for them.
.ogg files, run linux off the iPod's disk, play games on a TI-83 emulator, and do any number of complicated random things. The instant this happens, CdmrTaco will certainly suddenly love the thing..
Trust me. In about six weeks someone will put up a "hacking iPod" website with DETAILED technical specifications of the thing, along with instructions of how to overload the thing's "upgradable firmware" to play
(Note: does anyone know, what processor does the iPod run on? The tech specs site doesn't say. Either way, i'd imagine that anything powerful enough to decode mp3s is more than powerful enough to emulate the Game Boy.. and, hell, i'd imagine we could figure out some way to hook up input devices into the firewire port, which would lead to all kinds of crazy things. Emulating the newton or the palm, maybe even.. there are a *lot* of different nifty things you could do with a little portable device with a 5 GB hard drive, a firewire port, a little LCD screen, some buttons and a processor powerful enough to decode mp3s, once you overwrite the default firmware.. damn. The possibilities are almost limitless, and at the least i'm certain in about a year you'll see a LOT of fun little "ipod games" out there. I'm starting to wish that i was frivolous enough to spend $400 on an mp3 player..)
Anyway, my only thought on the subject is extreme happiness that the people trying to mount the iPod as a hard drive on a linux machines will FINALLY after all these years, give us HFS+ support for linux that actually works. I've been waiting so long..
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Yes ist's nice and all, but does it play ogg vorbis files? Thet's what my whole collection is.
You guys have no sense of humour!
Do you really think he would post a story about a gadget that he thinks is really lame? Come on!
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
What else? It has a clever power-saving mode which spins up the disk, reads a whole track into memory, and powers down the disk immediately. That means 5 mins anti-shock (or was it 10? can't remember) and 10 hours listening per Li-Ion battery. Support is nothing less than fantastic, with new firmwares containing features such as minesweeper :-) And I can upload via USB faster than I can rip CDs, so who cares about FireWire?
This is the hacker's choice of MP3 jukebox. It's a no-brainer.
I can store 500 MP3s and all of my OS9/OSX troubleshooting tools, a system install image (oh yeah, Firewire is bootable these days) and some pr0n on this thing that will always be with me and recharges during synch?
I'll take two, thank-you-very-much.
Get it down to the size of my Nokia 8290 and give it auto-synch-within-airport-range and this thing will own the geek market.
Try reading the specs a bit more, and weigh in just how valuable Firewire Disk Mode and size are in a package that small.
Also plays WAVs and AIFFs for what it's worth...
He is feeding the Trolls... The funny thing is that he is catching a lot of them.
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
I know that there is some work being done to support FireWire devices in YellowDog Linux.
10mgs bootloader, 128mgs swap, 2gigs root, the rest music.
Ahhh, hmmm......I am getting dizzy.
photosMy Photostream
Power and battery
Built-in rechargeable lithium polymer battery (1200 mAh)
Playtime: 10 hours when fully charged
Charges via FireWire connector to Mac system or power adapter
Fast-charge time: up to 1 hour (charges to 80% of battery capacity)
Full-charge time: up to 3 hours
The battery is built in much like a cell phone or Palm, but it gets power over the FireWire cable, eliminating the need for a cradle. The battery will run out long before you listen to all the music since it stores about 1,000 hours of music, but 10 hours is quite respectable and will get most people through a day.
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
Unfortunately, Apple's ultimate goal is to get people to buy more Apple hardware. So it's not likely that Apple will be developing a PC version of iTunes. They want to keep their so-called advantages to Mac-only. Maybe, in the future, they will get one program on Windows to definitely support the iPod and release an SDK for other Mac and Windows apps to optionally support it.
Remember, Apple makes more money on hardware sales, than on FireWire licenses.
same thing happened to me and i was sure the thing was screwed i tripped on the power cable pulled the ibook off my desk if fell 3.5 feet to the ground and flew 4 or 5 feet horizontally onto thin carpet over concrete. Kida bent, closes unevenly but not a single problem otherwise. The last thing that this happened to was a compaq ipac which was replaced by a psion. apple builds a solid product hence the higher cost being justified.
It's smaller than a Creative Nomad. .Sorry ya Linux suckas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's the first MP3 Player that uses Firewire instead of the lame and slow USB.
It can also serve as an external HD.
Using it alongside iTunes, it will automatically download what tunes ya got on your Mac onto iPod.
And it's for Mac users only . .
How does it feel to have Bill Gates cock in your mouth and Intel's collective cock up you filthy asshole?
saru mo ki kara ochiru
> I have trouble understanding why Slashot users are such haters when it comes to Apple and Steve Jobs.
When I had my amiga, Apple-zealots would tell me I couldn't run half of the software that apple was providing, and their software was soooo superior to the amiga's (I didn't find that correct aside from photoshop), So when I've had installed Shapeshifter and emulating a Macintosh Quadra *FASTER* than apple's real hardware Quadra, (both with the same 68040 processor, but shapeshifter was putting the mac bios in fastram whereas the real quadra was on chip and dead slow, just that gave quite a boost in application speed), When I told em "here, now I run all your crap, plus MY amiga stuff, for less than the price of your quadra", they simply bitched and moaned about how the amiga wouldn't take off and it wasn't popular and mac was a much more advanced machine, basically, they couldn't find ONE architecture argument, nor anything making sense to contradict what they were seeing... "it doesn't run that (click click, runing it) oh, and that? probably not (click click, oh it works, wow) oh the benchmarks are probably crappy since it's EMULATING (click click, run the standard benchmark tools for the mac, EVERYTHING was equal or a bit faster) oh well amiga sucks anyways! that was the big Apple fan's logical conclusion.
So basically, I don't hate the mac hardware, in fact, some of their innovation are really good (I use FireWire, I hate USB for an example), but what I hate is the TOTALLY BLIND userbase, Even when I was an amiga fanatic, I could recognize that the Alpha and Mips system were superior in some aspect and architechture, I could recognize that my amiga had some limitation that the PC eventually didn't keep, I could ACCEPT THAT SOMETHING OUT THERE WAS BETTER. Problem with most of the mac users, they don't accept to be told that their investment could have been a bad choice especially for what they are doing, they don't accept that something out there could be better if Supreme Steve Jobs didn't say it's so, and I could go on for days about this.
Look in the web/dtp buisness, you'll see what I am talking about, look at the big majority of "MAC" teachers in school, pure bias.. sorry but photoshop on MAC or On PC is the *SAME* thing, the tool is the same, the interface running behind the tool might be a bit different, but it's the same god damn thing, but these people keep brainwashing student that a PSD file will open faster on a mac than on a pc and some other vapor-junk like that that is TOTALLY OS independant (just buy a cheetah and you'll smoke the standard mac for god's sake), THAT is what's pissing me the most, their attitude, and a platform is not only a computer that you use at home, soon or later you need to exchange with a community, and the majority (I know there are exeptions, I know one) of the Mac community is too close-minded for my personnal taste. While I understand that they create a strong userbase that way, they sure keep a lot of people away at the same time.
I'll always remember when people came to see me to get a second guess suggestion because their DTP teachers we're stongly "forcing" them to buy iMACS for home and commercial freelance contracts as opposed to a PC because "the PC just doesn't do what a mac can do", the guy was ready to make his student's life miserable (ever did DTP on a 15" monitor?) for Apple's sake, when they could get dual celeron 366mhz (so faster 3d for those who wanted to go 3d), with a 19" monitor for the SAME price. He didn't explain de differences nor give his student the liberty to chose their own platform, he forced with no argument, took me WEEKS to unbrainwash them and make them compare the 2 systems (I could have not care, and just sold any of the 2 and make a quick buck, it wasn't my job to be HONNEST with them and second guess their decision, but I did it because I wanted to be SURE they would be satisfied with their decision and not having to spend money twice, some got a iMAC (I was suggesting them a G3 if they really want to stay mac (eventho the G3 was way more expensive, I knew it would be more expensive to buy a G3 AFTER an iMAC ), because they would eventually need to add more stuff... no, imac, teacher is right, teacher says, they do), some took my suggestion, today, those who had an iMAC trashed their system to get a G3 or G4 (and some didn't even finish paying the first loan), for a lot more again, and the others who got my suggestion, they're still in buisness and doing their contracts without having to buy another computer from scratch because the monitor sucked or the 3d performance was bad or the ram banks maxed out or not enough room to add a DVD drive and CD-RW or extra drive), so in the end, those with the OTHER choice saved money and they can still buy another PC today and the total for their 2 systems will still come cheaper than buying a G3 originally which is almost out of date too today).
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
I might point out that the Soundblaster Audigy has a firewire port. It's even gold plated.
I think you mean Apple shipped 850,000 machines last quarter.
All major surveys show that Apple has steadily declined in market share. Apple is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Apple is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. Apple continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Apple is dead.
next month is the big release
Speaking of comparisons... Let's compare the iPod to a sampling of other units that share its form-factor... that excludes all CD-MP3 based units AND it excludes units such as the Nomad. So how does the iPod stack up to it's form-factor matched competitors? What are it's competitors? Looking at the ever-cool ThinkGeek's MP3 player selection, here are the competition:
Price: $499
Capacity: 20 GB
I/O Interface: USB
Desktop OS Compatibility: Windows, & Linux (??)
Battery Type/Life(playtime): Internal rechargable/ 12 Hrs
Dimensions: 150 x 80 x 26 mm
Weight: 9.9oz.
Price: $249
Capacity: 6 GB
I/O Interface: USB
Desktop OS Compatibility: Windows and Mac
Battery Type/Life(playtime): 4 AA/ Max 8 hours
Dimensions: 4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3"
Weight: 12oz.
Additional features: Can function as USB hardrive. Also, Archo's website is unclear as to whether the unit can charge "it's 4-AA rechargables" with the included power adapter but such is hinted at...
Same as above, with 20GB of storage, for $349
Price: $199.99
Capacity: 32MB int. Expandable w/ SD card
I/O Interface: USB
Desktop OS Compatibility: Windows only
Battery Type/Life(playtime): 1 AAA/ Max 4 hours
Dimensions: 2" x 2" x 0.5"
Weight: 1.5 oz w/out battery
Price: $159.99
Capacity: 64MB int. Expandable w/ add-on back of up to 340 MB
I/O Interface: USB
Desktop OS Compatibility: Mac & Windows
Battery Type/Life(playtime): 1 AA/ Max 8 hours
Dimensions: 3.5" x 2.5" x 5/8"
Weight: ??
Price: $219.99
Capacity: 128MB int. Expandable w/ add-on back up to 340 MB
I/O Interface: USB
Desktop OS Compatibility: Mac & Windows
Battery Type/Life(playtime): 1 Ni-MH AA Rechargable (built in recharger)/ ??
Dimensions: 3.5" x 2.5" x 1"
Weight: ??
Price: $399.00
Capacity: 5GB
I/O Interface: Firewire
Desktop OS Compatibility: Mac only (?)
Battery Type/Life(playtime): Internal, (rechargable via external adaptor or via firewire bus)/ 10 hrs max.
Dimensions: 4.02"x2.3"x0.78"
Weight: 6.5 oz
Additional features: may be used as firewire disk
General discussion:
First, why exclude such different form-factor units such as the nomad? IMHO, size plays a major part in dictating what one of these units will be used for. A CD player, or Nomad is simply too big for me to take to the gym and use while I am running, biking or using any of the machines. Therefore, it's gotta be small..
So how does the iPod stack up? It looks like it's middle of the road, but if certain features are or are not important to you, the choice may be easier (for or against the iPod.) For instance, the Mac only (??) status of this unit makes it unacceptable for many consumers (I love my macs but single OS support IS a handicap for any MP3 player and when that one OS is not the numerically superior one, it's a real issue. On the other hand, the iPod is the only unit that supports firewire. That speed advantage can be really big. Additionally, the iPod blows many of the other units away as far as storage goes (such as the Rio's, Toshiba's, Samsung's, Iomega's and Intel's offerings) but it is matched and exceeded by the Archos units.
My take, overall is that this is a good start and there is a lot of potential in the iPod, but for my $$, right now, I'd buy one of the Archos units.
Now that someone else has mentioned that the 20gb Nomad costs the same as the iPod (would you give up 15 gigs?) I'll mention that the 6gb version you mention costs $130 less than the iPod.
I'd give up size and weight for $130. Then again, I wouldn't buy either, because even $269 is too much for my cheap ass. (See my thoughts on MP3-CD players.)
USB is much faster than most home broadband connections, so the time to fill 5 gig will be much less than the time it took to download the files. :-)
iPod and iTunes are for legal or rightholder-authorized copying only. Don't steal music.
Apple seems to have the right theory on "content protection"
Archos's Jukebox is:
* Available in 6 or 20 GB options
* Comes with USB. While Firewire would be nice to have, it's not $100-150 more convenient.
* 4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3". 12 Oz. Bigger than the iPod, but not significantly. Not $150 bigger.
* Was $200 at Best Buy a few weeks ago. For the 6 gb version.
* Has a recorder option on one of the models.
I'm underwhelmed. It's cool, but not $200 cooler than an Archos. (www.archos.com).
--I hate people when they're not polite -"Psycho Killer", Talking Heads
I can see that you've sorta missed my point (or maybe you've proven it).
While Toyota Corollas might be of "high quality" in the sense that they have wimpy engines that can sustain hundreds of thousands of miles of highway driving, they are utter crap otherwise, and totally uncool. I've ridden in them and driven them. While they may be better "old lady" cars than the homegrown Novas, they are still "old lady" cars.
I personally drive a Honda S2000, just to give you some perspective on where I'm coming from. Like Apple, Honda makes great products that are also cool -- from the lowly Civic SI up to the awesome NSX-R.
Can you record with a microphone?
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
And why does everything have to be wireless? I don't understand this.
1.) plug firewire cable into the back of your computer
2.) bring other end of cable on to desktop
3.) plug in MP3 player when needed
I don't get how this makes life easier. By adding a wireless recieving unit in the thing, it would be bigger, weigh more, and cost more. Probably be more complicated, slower, and use more batteries, too. Or to cut costs you could put an IrDA port in it, although I think less people own an IrDA port for their desktop than firewire, and it would be sitting there transfering data wirelessly so long, you might as well have taken the 4 seconds to plug it in. Why is this a good idea?
I guess i'm just not getting it. Mabey i'm too practical from a monatary standpoint, but i wouldn't spend $400 on a wireless setup for my apartment when i can run $6 worth of cat 5 myself anywhere it wants to go in the apartment. Wireless is for cell phones and possibly for laptops at how much it costs right now, and i can't even afford it at that. Beyond that its just extra gadgets.
~z
sig?
It needs a way to hook into component stereo systems too.
I was thinking that if the iPod came with the iTunes software actually on it, then you wouldn't have to worry about whether it was installed on the Mac you hooked up to or not. Thus you could manage your iPod on any mac. And if it came bundled with Windows or Linux apps, (even stripped down compared to iTunes) you've got a great system for exchanging and managing music. Also, it would be great if you could hook two iPods together via firewire to exchange files... Firewire has peer-to-peer capability so it should be possible. The RIAA would hate that though.
Does anyone know what hardware/software system they use for playback? Can you load new codecs or system software or anything?
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Ummm... the product has been around since 1998 or 1999, when the original iBook was introduced.
They did a commercial to that effect, though I can't find a link to it.
Mr. Sharumpe
-- The above comments are just my opinion. If you are going to flame me, save your time. I am fireproof.
I think Steve Jobs is turning Apple into a Tupperware company. Great designs, long lasting product but over priced.
He might want to look into selling things like iBowl, iPlate, iFork, iSpoon, etc...
Until the price lowers a bit more, say around $100, I'll stick to my tape of the Spice Girls...
Just call me iChimp...
Haha. Haha. Hahaha. LOL U R s0 funny! Haha. ROTFLMAF!
saru mo ki kara ochiru
It may sound like a silly question, but if Sony puts FireWire on it's systems and Apple wants to expand the impact and capability of FireWire, they should do a PCI add in card that runs under X86. I like Apple, and if this is just bait to get people to use Macs for MP3's that's fine. However, selling a large number of units and using it as a BRIDGE from the PC to the Mac world would be a hell of a lot smarter.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
I expect Apple to totally dominate the four-armed nerd market.
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
Yeah, and while their at it why dont they just make all their devices sync with my toaster too. I mean the whole Toaster-Sync market is way neglected.
Does the 128Mb player work well? Anybody? This looks cool: if it had a FM tuner, it'd be perfect. Still, voice record to WAV would be nice, and 128MB would be enough to have fun on a flight.
How does one get this to work with linux?
A $122 shell that you can put any size laptop hard drive into. 20GB drives sell for just a tad over $100 on PriceWatch. With shipping and handling, total of $250. Probably no Linux drivers, but it's USB instead of Firewire (which I don't have). Seems like a cheaper alternative. Especially if you have an old laptop laying around that you can cannibalize the hard drive off of. Anybody got one? What's the UI like? Thinking of getting myself one for the holidays.
I am a recovering Apple fanatic. Now that I've escaped the famous Cupertino Reality Distortion Field, let me tell you why I have such a love/hate relationship with "All Things Apple."
I still enjoy using and playing with their products. It started with my Mac LC in high school, then my killer Mac Quadra 840av in college. When the iMac came out in '98, I was the first one buying to replace the aging Quadra. My family has purchased somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 Macs (I'm one of seven kids), most recently the iMac DV I helped my sister pick out on her way to college.
What's my point in all this? Apple almost died once by losing touch with reality. Steve bought them back from the brink, but now he's marketing a device that is very nice when you sell it at $199.95; but at twice that price, it looks like as goofy and unmarketable as a Platypus in an Edsel swinging a CueCat around.
I still love talking about new Apple technologies and products with friends and coworkers. Apple loves to release clean products with gee-whiz features. Sometimes even at reasonable prices.
But when the realization hit my wife that the 233MHz G3 wasn't cutting it anymore, and we looked at new computers, I could not bring myself to fork over another $1000 to $1500 to get a non-upgradable unit. I'm really sorry Mac enthusiasts, but here is what I built instead:
A PC in a cute, customized penguin-shaped ATX case with a Celeron 900, 512 megs of RAM, 16x DVD drive, 16x10x40 CD-RW, 30 Gigabyte ATA-100 hard drive, GeForce2 MX video, SoundBlaster Live audio, and 3Com NIC with a 17 inch monitor.
For under $800.00.
I sold the iMac to a friend in trade for a 1976 Mercury Cougar with 60,000 original miles. I guarantee I'll get mileage out of my machine than he'll get out of his. Oh, the iMac runs OS 10.1 quite nicely on the 36GB drive I stuck in, on the 288 megs of RAM I installed. But nothing can beat the commodity cost of PC upgrade peripherals. Right now, I could put an ECS motherboard and 1.4GHz Athlon in the new PC for $200, and keep right on using the rest of the components.
Yes, creative engineering clearly requires Apple charge a premium... but at this point, it's too high to pay. I have a house to buy and kids to father someday soon, and I'd much rather spring for a 4th bedroom than another overpriced tech toy.
YMMV.
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
Well, I'm going to use it to connect to my car stereo and store navy secrets..."Yes sir, its just an Mp3 player...listen":)
--"It's Bradford Company, slash your last name, dot your first name"
evolution:
floppy disk -> Zip Disk -> iPod
If only Jobs had not been so callous as to say:
``We have thought that when we have a little bit of spare time we will looking into taking it to Windows,'' he said, adding jokingly that he thought ``the experience probably won't be as good.''
S.
mod up!
There's no doubt it's a cool device. They'll just never sell any of them. The intersection of people who a) have firewire b) have $400 to spend on yet another way to play music and c) are willin g to listen to music on headphones is very small.
Don't get it for Christmas--get it in January when it will be down to $199.
(.001*News) + (200*Opionion) + (200*Bias) + (10*Rumor) = Slashdot
And to prove this formula, the moderator will probably moderate -1 this message.
"iPod supports English, French, German and Japanese, and can even display different languages simultaneously. So you can view French songs (with native language information tags) alongside German, Japanese and American ones."
Listen to Kraftwerk as it should be heard!
right now is not the time to introduce an expensive MP3 player, no matter how cool it might be (looks great and is so tiny!) ... the days of people having $400 burning a hole in their pockets died a few months back.
i wonder why they released this right now, of all times. i mean, it just doesn't make sense. the iMac made sense when it was released. the cube didn't, and it's dead. i worry that this will suffer the same fate.
Mindy: "Well...desserts aren't always right." Homer: "But they're so sweet!"
"iPod supports English, French, German and Japanese, and can even display different languages simultaneously. So you can view French songs (with native language information tags) alongside German, Japanese and American ones."
At last I can listen to Kraftwerk as it should be heard!
I can fill my Archos Jukebox with my entire 6GB MP3 collection in about two hours over USB.
-tom
You guys are missing the big picture. The iPod is silently showcasing Darwin in the embedded market. This would get Apple into a market currently dominated by Linux and Embedded Windows (moreso by Linux). It shows Darwins ability to be used in a multimedia device with updatable firmware, so it can accept new formats if needed.
Moreover, the iPod is one piece to a total user experience. On one (UNIX) platform you can easily rip mp3s, transfer them to a MP3 player of your choice (does not have to be an iPod), burn them to a cd as MP3 or AIFF, make digital movies, burn them to a DVD or back to tape, author professional DVDs, edit video, produce visual effects equal to what is done in the movies (I worked on Star Wars EP II, they are using mostly Macs for production). iPod is just another piece to a total user experience.
While I personally feel iPod is at least 100 bucks too much, it has some unique features. Being able to transfer MP3s with firewire vs. usb is great. I am sure someone will devise a way for it to hot sync with a pc, and considering firewire cards are about $35 bucks, and firewire is becoming an industry standard on both PCs and Macs, I applaud Apple for firewire as the preferred connectivity. Also, the ability to use it as an external, portable firewire drive is nifty, although if you are going to use it mainly for that reason there are much cheaper options.
As for Apples hardware, I do not feel their prices are all that far out of line. The iBook is very competitive for its price, as is the Titanium PowerBook. The dual processor machines are pretty sweet. As for performance issues, I have no complaints. I do understand however most Linux users argument that they prefer to recycle parts from older machines or build machines from scratch. I own more than one mac and I can tell you the quality of the machines is very good, better than my Dell or Gateway boxes. While I do not believe Apples mHZ myth marketing, I do not believe Intel marketing either. We all know that there is more to performance than mHz.
I am a multi-OS user. I am a MCSE (only because my career forces me to be), a Linux user as well, and at home I choose Macs. The total user experience, especially with OS X is very, very good.
If Apple made the iPod work on Windows and Linux it would detract from the overall experience in OS X. Why then would you consider OS X?
iTunes 2 comes with the device, as you would have seen if you had bothered to read Apple's description of the device. Adding FireWire to a PC is a $15 PCI card; every recent Mac has come with them standard. And while $400 is a lot of money, it's only $170 more than the Nomad thinger; would I pay $170 more for a device with half the weight, a quarter of the size, many many many times the transfer speed, and much better engineering and user design? Hell yes.
That said, I'm not going to buy one, but I think plenty will.
Everytime I hear this, I'm ROTFL.
Apple's critics have been predicting it's demise SINCE at least 1984! I remember reading pundits like John Dvorak in the '80s constantly saying that Apple would be dead within months, it was doomed because their computers were not IBM-compatible, blah, blah, blah.
I'm one of the "idiots" (according to those pundits) who bought one of the original 128K 9" monochrome Macs in 1984. I've owned Macs ever since, including a spankin' new G4 with OSX. I have never had a reason to regret owning my Mac collection (and yes, every one of them still work!).
As far as the iPod goes, they'll sell at least a half-million of these things, which will make it a mild success. I'll wait for the iPod 2, though, with a 20+GB drive and lower price 8^) They (and the copycats) will sell millions of those.
"Send an Instant Karma to me" - Yes
...Apple Computers is developing a revolutionary device they plan to call the iMod for corporate use. This device is approximately the size and shape of a large all-in-one TV remote. It is designed to fluctuate to the natural harmonic frequency of computers running any version of the MS Windows operating system, thus penetrating its minimal defenses, and deactivating the hostile system.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
If you love freedom to use music purchased in oone format without extra hassle in some other format... we should be supporting Apple in this. Finally, someone we can feel good when Apple unleashes the lawyers on. :)
guess what OS has the longest uptime on the net...
TRY UPLOADING 5 gigs of MP3'S through USB ! It is Terrible.
Thank Jesus for a Firewire MP3 Player.
I have a Nike Rio player that was a nice size, solid state, but I am going to dump it for the iPod. Filling the 64 megs onboard (about 30 minutes of MP3's) takes like 8 - 10 minutes by USB - that SUCKS. I want to pick my damn tunes and roll man, not wait for 10 minutes!
Its about time Firewire was put on a MP3 Player,
Now if only my Cannon digital elph had firewire - it too has the USB lag that I hate.
Maybe some of you cheapskates place no value on your time?
Why complain about the price - who cares - Getting the best product is most important - I can blow $100.00 in a heartbeat. The savings of buing a NOMAD or other "soviet" engineered junk, is not worth my time.
$400.00 - big deal - what would 10 CD's cost you - about $100.00 right? big deal.
So if the iPod was $300.00 everyone would be so much happier eh?
Go buy a VST external Firewire Hard Drive - how much will you pay?
Now compare to the iPod - Remember you can use this for Data too.
No battery changes, decent storage, small size, use as a HD, FAST FILE TRANSFERS
Well let's see here.... I think I can tell you why iPod is iLAME. Here's why I won't be buying one.. Out of the four computers in my house...
None of them are Macs.
None of them have Firewire.
This means that none of them can run iTunes.
This also means that none of them can charge the thing.
You want portable music? Get a portable MiniDisc player.
You can get 5 hours of music on 1 MiniDisc and 1 MiniDisc costs 1.50 (using MDLP mode).
*And* I can record to it from my stereo, my Wintel box *or* my Linux box. *AND* it's full digital recording from a CD-player or computer with a digital audio output.
It might not be as fast as Firewire, but it sure as hell is cheaper..!
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
It's been a long time since I've seen som many people claim to be NOT INTERESTED in soemthing, yet devote so much time to discussing it. How "Lame" are you??
im almost sure they did
The firewire vs USB debate leaves me cold. Try sitting down and ripping 20 CDs, then ask yourself 5 hours later if you care much whether it takes 5 minutes or 30 seconds to load them into the player.
I have an Archos unit, the USB delay has never bothered me. I have firewire on the machine but fiddling with the drivers is a real pig. I discovered after I bought my first firewire board that the 'standard' isn't. If you have a JVC camera it turns out it does not work with most boards, you have to have the B or the C version. Tedious huh?
What would strike me as really useful is the ability to record. I would like a portable dictation machine that would allow me to capture 20 hours or so of dictation and then load it into a voice->text converter for offline processing.
As it is I suspect it will not be a success because Apple are only really marketing to their existing user base. While this is not negligible, it is hardly substantial. Apple are making it very clear that they have no interest in marketing the device to the 95% of the computer user market that have PCs whether they are running Windows or Linux.
As far as innovative styling goes Sony's Vaio line matches anything Apple have come up with in the computer market in my opinion. I don't think it will be long before there are other MP3 jukeboxes that have similar styling.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I've found a portable 80+GB Firewire drive to be phenomenally useful in a tech support or sysadmin setting. So I say do it !
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
My god, what were Apple thinking?
*Obviously* zero mouse buttons is even *worse* than one.
Now on the other hand, if the iPod had *two* extraneous mouse buttons, maybe it wouldn't be so "lame"?
Yeesh, taco.
myselfmusic
These footnotes are at the bottom of the iPod tech specs page:
(1) 1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less.
(2) Capacity based on an average song length of 4 minutes and 160-Kbps encoding.
(3) Battery life may vary according to use.
(4) iPod and iTunes are for legal or rightholder-authorized copying only. Don't steal music. [my emphasis]
(5) Actual rates will vary.
What is going on here? Microsoft is playing ball with the Recording Institute Assoc. of America (RIAA) and building digital copyright management (DCRM) into their new OS, Windows XP. They're going to try to order back the tide of file swapping.
We all know that this is impossible. The demise of Napster has only led to increased use of more purely peer to peer tools that are not suppressible by a court order, like Gnutella and Freenet.
MS thinks that people are so wedded to Windows that they'll continue to use it although it cripples their ability share files, or even prevents them from exercising their traditional "fair use" rights to music, text or other data that they own. This would work if there really were no alternative OS, or if all the alternatives also built in DCRM. But there are alternatives who aren't going to build in DCRM, and MS is betting on the wrong horse.
PC users who want to exercise their fair use right to copyrighted material that they've bought, and people who want to share will look for an alternative to Windows so they can continue to do so. Some people will look to switch because they resent MS's heavy-handed Big-Brother-is-watching-your-hard-drive approach.
Linux rippers and players for DVD and MP3 and other sources do exist. Though the DVD players are "illegal" all efforts to supress them have failed and they remain readily available. Some of the people who are looking to swap files and/or retain their fair use rights will move to Linux. Although this will be slowed because Linux is still an OS that one must be a bit technically inclined to tackle. But as it becomes easier to use this will become less of an impediment.
And Apple? Notice that their new OS does not include any built-in DCRM features. OS X is easier to use than Windows, powerful, stable, and is designed with "rip, mix, and burn" in mind. Now the iPod gives people another easy way to enjoy their fair-use right to play music that they have bought on any device that they own. Of course this is legal and, as the above quote from Apple urges, you shouldn't "steal music."
These protestations may be genuine, or they may be as sincere as Claude Raines's police inspector in Casablanca:
"I'm shocked! Shocked to find that people are buying our products to use for illegal file trading!"
Either way, Microsoft will soon learn that people, particularly young people, aren't going to have anything to do with an operating system that includes DCRM. File sharing is one of the reasons they buy a computer in the first place. Many of the more computer-savvy among them will head for Linux. Others, and all of the less-technical ones, will switch to Macintosh for iTunes, FireWire, the iPod, iDVD, and the rest.
Microsoft will realize their mistake, ditch the DCRM, and come out with the WinRipper, but Bill "Hey you hackers are stealing my software" Gates won't see this and react to it until they have hemorrhaged quite a bit of market share. Its impossible to know how much they will lose before they let go of the idea of becoming every computer user's nanny. But their heads seem pretty hard to me. Apple could double or triple their market share before Gates and Ballmer cop on. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Fascists: MS, the RIAA, and the MPAA.
Come on everybody, let's "Rip, Mix and Burn!"
You don't need os X to use this. 9.2.1 also works.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
It is becoming increasingly typical for the "know it alls" who seem to run things around here to shoot their mouths off about everything in the world they don't understand.
Anyone who labels the iPod "Lame" has no aesthetic for either technology or beauty, and has the linux users equivalent of "penis envy".
Can you say "Apple Envy"?
"Smokey, this isn't Nam, there are rules." -Walter
Firewire, in fact, is a total of 50 MB of transfer. Furthermore, it's QOS'd and has significant overhead, so you're likely to peak at 10 MB/s (although you can perform 4 transfers each of which is GUARANTEED 10 MB/s, so you'll have 4 quality video transmissions, for instance) But that is certainly less than ATA 100. Except that no single current hard disk or CD drive can match ATA 100. (and, incidently Apple's hardware is essentially the same now)
What you forgot is MP3 compression. IF you already have your whole CD transfered into your computer as MP3s, then you can transfer it in those seconds. This works well because the mac stuff is very seamless... So IF you've got your whole music collection already on your PowerMac, then it's 10s/CD.
This doesn't work for data, of course.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Has an upgradeable firmware, and the system is running linux.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
> Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...
...
...
*keeps hand at his side* Okay, you got me there...
> Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port
*raises hand high and proud*
With FireWire cards in the $20-40 range, ANYBODY acn get Firewire these days. Just head down to your nearest CompUSA/Fry's/computer show vndor/whatever.
> Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device
*raises hand* Considering I spent nearly that much on my Nomad (plus extra rechargable batteries, battery charger, extra wall plug, car adapter, etc.).
And you don't (strictly speaking) need iTunes to use this beast. You can access the FireWire drive itself using the standard FireWire SCSI-2 emulation layer (sbp2) which means, yes boys and girls, YOU CAN USE IT WITH LINUX!!! Unlike the Nomad, which you CAN'T. (read: proprietary protocols)
I, for one, am seriously considering selling my Nomad + gear on ebay and getting one of these puppies.
Yomigaeru Aiyan Geek!!!
Apple may run into problems following its decision to opt for iPod as the name for its new "breakthrough" MP3 player - from Intel.
l
Read here for more http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/22429.htm
Cruise TT
The general public release of Windows XP is in just two days. Based on that alone, traffic at local computer stores, including those where Apples are sold, is bound to be heavy for the next few weekends. Following on the hot heels of the iPod announcement, this means more buyers will choose not to swallow Microsoft's red pill and will go for Apple's Aqua blue pill instead -- with an iPod chaser in November.
I think we can all admit this device rox.
So do we all:
(1) Go buy a mac and ipod and try to dual boot with yellowdog linux or...
(2) wait for someone to copycat it for the pc
I choose the latter...
cheers!
Eddy.WriteLinux.Com
expensive, but it worth the price....
I have been looking for a MP3 portable player so long ago, and this is the one...
Anyone with any moderately recent Macintosh (a couple of million sold) has iTunes and FireWire. That's not a bad market opportunity.
So the only question is whether there's a decent market for a $399 MP3 player that's essentially a Nomad Jukebox (only $100 less, 30x the transfer date, 1/3rd the size, longer battery life, and much better controls).
Will it take over the world? No, of course not. Is it a competitive product? Sure it is.
Lame?
...well, it may not be up to par with the Nomad, but for some people it'll do just fine.
Apple takes a different approach towards its products.
Being on all three sides of the deal (I manage Windows boxes at work, and use Linux / Macs at home)... from exposure, I know there's a good reason ot use each.
1) Windows is there for the suits who want someone to blame.
2) Linux is for people who know PC's what they're doing and want something that works well.
3) Macs are for people who want to get things done without hassle.
Windows keeps the paychecks coming. Linux does my powerhouse work, and for stuff that I need to work and I need to get done without a hassle (like finances, or writing a letter) I use the Mac.
People who have bought into Apple's products expect the same type of simplicity and reliablity as they've gotten used to. Sure, this may not be as smooth or slick (which I think it is) as the Nomad...BUT, I can say confidently that it will work, work well, work every time, and without hassle.
I feel that I've gotten my hands into just about everything, and as far as Apple's approach, I "get it". Sure I love playing around on the Linux box and spending all night tweaking configuration files, and compiling stuff. But when I just want to listen to music or move big files around...hell, I just want to do just that, nothing more.
The iPod does just that, and it works with all the other goodies that I get stuff done with seamlessly.
To me, that's damn cool.
-brain
While it is cool that you can charge via a firewire cable, anyone know whether this is the *only* way to charge it ? Because if you can only charge it by firewire then it would seem you're obligated to drag around a computer (with firewire, no less) just to charge the thing. I can imagine being on a road trip in a hotel and I just want to listen to music, I don't have (or don't want to unpack) my computer just to recharge. The real possibilities for this thing lie in being able to *un*tether yourself from a computer.
This is really just the first step towards an iNewton.. It's already got some Ram, a CPU, all the storage you could want..
NOW, make the screen a bit bigger and touch-sensitive, add either PalmOS or a new NewtonOS, and you've got one heck of a PDA... Slightly bigger than than the slimmest, but it seems to still be a good size, and access to 5GB (or more) of storage..
Ever been hit by lightning?
CD player sized versus deck of cards
14 ounces versus 6.5 ounces
6 gigs space versus 5 gigs space
Plays & records music versus Plays music and doubles as a firewire hard disk
Variable playback speed versus static playback speed
EAX versus "A high-output (60-mW) amplifier" ???? Wow that's descriptive
USB interface versus Firewire interface
Line input for recording versus No line input
DC in for charging versus Firewire port charging or DC in
MP3, WMA, and WAV formats with support for additional future formats versus MP3, WAV, AIFF, and support for future additional formats
Updatable versus Also updatable
Only English support? versus English, French, German, Japanese. (at the same time too)
No back light? versus white LED backlight
Customizable play lists versus Customizable play lists
$240+shipping (at thinkgeek) versus $400 (at apple)
Sources:h tml. asp?Product=102&MainCategory=2
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/3652.s
http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product
http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
It is a very tough decision. Nomad is less expensive, but you definitely pay for the smaller size of iPod and the fast interface. Nomad has some cool features like line-in recording and variable playback rates but so does iPod with its integration with iTunes and neat scrolling system. (Not to mention mutiple language support.) Who knows, it's a photo-finish in my book.
-Jon
Er...iPod is already a registered trademark. Do I smell a lawsuit? iPod (www.nfcconsulting.com/nfc_ipod.htm)
You can't take the sky from me...
And that was classified as an insightful comment?
I smell the B.O. wafting from this list's raised arms right now...
I think this is a product meant to evolve - and I think there are plenty to be sold beyond this little mole-cave of geekdom. There's a planet full of college freshman with iBooks that'll be happy to shoot a chunk of their next student loan into this thing.
This thing smokes the Nomad, and that thing will never catch up.
What exactly is this supposed to mean? The link provided does nothing to explain or support this assertion. I am sure may of us would be interested to find out that one of the more well respected application frameworks (Cocoa) has a monumental flaw at it's heart.
Please educate us all.
MP3-CD's are USELESS for those of us who are remotely active. Try taking your MP3-CD unit on a 4 mile run or to the gym or anywhere else that you are moving about and being physical.
,the iPod as 5GB. The Rio does USB, the iPod does Firewire.
I have a car mp3 player in my car. Its good for driving. I have a Rio for exercise, its good for motion. My rio only holds 128 megs. Enter the iPod, it replaces my Rio.
Whats the big deal? The Rio has two lines of display, the iPod has 6. The Rio has 128 megs
Seems like a valid replacement to me. I've already ordered...
Alright, how many of these people are the type that want a portable Mp3 device? Maybe half.
Half of several hundred thousand times $400 is still several heaping boatloads of cash.
And that's just right now. The obvious larger picture here is that Apple hopes to use the iPod (and, I suspect, similar devices) to leverage sales of MacOS computers, and vice-versa. It's a strategy that's made Sony and Microsoft quite a bit of cash, on the backs of products significantly less well-designed and integrated than this.
Of course, they're Apple, so they'll probably manage to fuck it up somehow, but the product is good, the strategy is sound, and the sales upside is very, very high.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
My hand's still up, but Apple's too late. I've got a Rio 500 in this form factor, I don't mind waiting for USB transfers, and I don't need more than 128 Megs of songs every day.
Now, if this puppy had AirPort, and I could sit im my den and load the player as it sits in the car, THEN I'd be lining up to buy one.
'nuff said.
Well, duh.
iPod: same size as a deck of cards
Nomad: 14' station wagon with seating for 9
What kind of a comparison is that?
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
Given how I feel about cats, I think that would be great! Of course having to wear a grounded copper mesh suit around the house would be a pain...
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
A NEO25 is a better deal. granted I use my lowly USB port to download to it, but, it looks great in
my Silverado and it sounds great too!
And will all my Win95 PCs hook right up to it without having to buy anything extra for them? Is it USB? I have USB ports.
The specs say "Maximum operating altitude 10,000 feet". So if I put this on my motorcycle (after figuring out how to make a 12 V-> FireWire adapter), I can't use it over any mountain passes in Colorado?
Right .... there are really thousands of PC users who are willing to change platforms to buy an MP3 player. And there are really thousands of PC users that are willing to change platforms, pay for an iBook AND a $400 mp3 player.
the pocket rocket is a vibrator sold by good vibrations for your sexual enjoyment isn't it?
I can't decide if this is a complete troll, or just someone who can't count. Yes, you can get five hours of music on a MiniDisc, but it takes exactly FIVE HOURS to put it there! You want to save money? Leave out the MiniDisc completely, and just listen to whatever source you had in the first place! (and yes, that may even include playing vinyl in your car)
to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers
Are we speaking of the MacOS or of Linux here?
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
How can you say that?
Did you read the spec?
5GB, 1CD in 10 sec, 1hour recharge via Firewire, nice interface, nice font, etc
Come on man, your comments surprise me
Attn: CmdrTaco
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
how long 'til it runs linux?
Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...
...
...
...
Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port
Raise your hand if you have both
Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device
me: [raises four hands...]
OK.. so saying 'it's not as fast as firewire' was understating it a bit... ;-)
;)
Seriously.. Yes.. it takes 5 hours to record a 5 hour minidisc. HOWEVER, it's *still* cheaper and more accessable by the masses than the aPud^H^H^H^H iPod.
Besides, what are you using the audio output on your computer for when you're sleeping, anyway?
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
Macworld says that Job's said "We have thought than when we get a little spare time, we will look at taking it to Windows. We know the experience won't be as good, but we will probably look at that down the road." Hopefully someone has the sense to build a Linux driver! or even a *BSD driver :)
Lotas T Smartman www.lotas-smartman.net
I do have a FireWire port, but it's on a WinXP home machine. If iTunes was ported to Windows, then they'd have a much great potential market to sell to. FireWire is extremely nice. I don't like using Macs, even though I have a G4 at work, but you have to admire Apple's styling and engineering ability.
If I was in the market for a MP3 player and iTunes was available on Windows. I'd really consider this product.
You don't have to recompile your kernel on MacOSX to use the iPod device...
:)
amazing...
I would rather buy 20 gig hard drive based mp3 player that offers about the same for less money. Seriously, there are a few out there already that promise the same thing and more, but cost less or equal to $400. Most of these players support Macintosh as well as Linux and Windows.
:).
Archos Jukebox Studio 20 MP3 Player. (Supports Macintosh, Linux, Windows)
Creative Labs 20 Gig MP3 Jukebox (Supports Macintosh, Windows)
20 Gig Personal MP3 Jukebox (Supports Macintosh, Linux, Windows)
The only things I can see that is different about this is that they don't use USB for transfer like most players and their claim of a 20 minute buffer. Also since Apple is behind this they will have a lot better Macintosh support. If they actually had OGG support and allowed us to program additional audio format support (like Mods, SID,SPC, etc) I might reconsider
The good thing is that some companies are finally getting it and are now selling reasonable players at reasonable prices. I will be getting a Archos Jukebox Studio 20 MP3 player when I earn enough cash. I just hope that the SSSCA doesn't get passed and forces these companies to either cripple their products or go out of business.
Nope. They're Volkswagons. Everyone knows that... They go after the exact same audience. I mean, iMac = New Beetle.
Good lord. They even have the same actors in their commercials.
(If they were equivalent to Mercedes or BMWs, they would've have a Unix core a long time ago. Instead, much like Volkswagons, their innards were unreliable and took forever to get up to snuff.)
I love all of these people who think FireWire is a Mac-only thing. Tons of people have FireWire cards in PC's for DV cameras, and a lot of new PC's come with FireWire ports... like the Dell Inspiron 8000 laptop I have. Anyone know if there's an optional external charger? For my i8000's FireWire port is the small connector that doesn't supply power. -dc
What is the problem with you Linux freeks? It's a small, light, fast, featureful mp3 player that pushes the usability envelope in its niche. Plus it's usable with other OSs (though Apple created FireWire, other cos. have been smart enough to license it). It's a little costly, but so was the first Newton - and the Mac Portable was like $6,000 when it came out. Didn't stop notebook computing from hitting it big. Don't bitch about the product cause it costs too much. And don't say it's lame because there's no AMD hardware or free software running inside it.
I own a 6GB Nomad Jukebox. With ~3GB of MP3s, every time I turn it on (with all songs in current playlist), it takes several minutes (I dunno, 5-10) to "Prepare the Library". I've sorta gotten use to it, but in the back o' my mind, I know it just ain't right. What if I filled the thing up? Would it take 10-20 minutes before I can play music?
The thing I haven't gotten used to is the slow-ass transfer of ~3GB of song data over USB. I don't have to move the whole enchillada often, of course, but when I do... it takes... a long... long... time. Bring on the firewire. If you don't have FW, why complain about the iPod? It would make as much sense to complain that I can't plug my scanner in to my jacuzzi tub.
Also, some on this topic have mentioned "almost no interface" for the iPod... man, you wanna see a bad interface, drop some bones on a Nomad Jukebox. It is pathetic. iPod's jog wheel sounds like heaven. Jukebox has a thumbwheel on it... for volume. To go up/down through (potentially) thousands of songs, you get to use up/down arrow buttons... to jump song by song by song. So many other painful elements to the interface, that I feel you'd be hard pressed to make it worse. Whether it be extensive or limited, I'm certain that Apple will make a 'slick' interface for this thing.
So, I have a firewire Mac, I have OS X (already sweet, well on it's way to greatness)... I'll definitely go for the iPod in November (or wait... Xmas is coming soon). I know that puts me in the niche market... don't care. I enjoy nearly every minute of using OSX... every minute I use the Jukebox (other than just letting it play) I cringe. I look forward to enjoying my MP3 player as much as I enjoy my Mac (with OSX, hated OS9).
Apple did invent FireWire, though...
I have an Archos jukebox. its smaller than any other (until now) HD based MP3 player and holds 6GB. I dig it since I can wander NYC and hear anything i want. But the UI is SO BAD that i basically only use random playlists and treat it liek a radio station. This is where the iPod has me VERY excited. No other mp3 device has gotten the UI even close to as functional as the iPod. And it weighs 6 oz. to the Arhos' 12! Those who diss it havent tried the alternatives or dont really care about carrying alot of music around. ME, I'm a digital music junky, and this looks like the device I've been wishing they'd make. Give it a year, and this thing will have greater capacity and a cheaper price. 2002 is starting to look liek the year that form factor and UI FINALLY kick in for digital devices...
You can actually get about 40MB/s aross FireWire after overhead is subtracted. The hard drive is going to be your limiting factor here.
The iPod is an overpriced item, but it has some fairly unique features. It's really the first MP3 player in its size class that offers a reusable battery, how much money will you save with thet?, A lot is my guess.
Also though many feel thet FireWire (aka iLink, or IEEE 1394), is not held on most PC's should note that it can be obtained, and that many PC manufacturers have been including it on their chips for quite some time now, and those without it simply haven't kept up.
Additionally, the ability to recharge the battery via FireWire is absolutly ingenious. The iPod also makes sounds as you move through the menu hierachy.
The ability to have it double as a hard disc is not a new idea, but the fact they they used it says that they feel it should have more than just music options. Though I wish it would have wireless options, and/or at leat the ability to have visualizers on the unit (which would really set it apart), I feel that they left the option(s) out because it was not economically viable at the time.
The fact that Apple made it look sleek to fit its current designs isn't surprising. Neither is the fact that they have made it seamless to integrate into their iTunes product.
Apple can also play up the fact that you can take this unit anywhere and make a powerpoint presentation, play your music files, show your iMovie, or limitless other things, because the iPod (which is a really dumb name), as previously mentioned can double as a hard disc.
DigitalVolume
The Way It Should Be.
Chris Giddings President, Ripple LLC
Sorry if this has been answered, but I haven't seen ... since the iPod has a little GUI, I'm assuming there has to be some embedded OS or another -- is it an adaption of one already on the market or something Apple cooked up? And what processor is inside, for that matter? The Apple "tech specs" are mum on both these points.
jf
While not perfect nor does it lack the audience of the non apple folks... this device has some neat and innovative features that will surely make its way into the other players.
:)
SumYoungGuy sitting in Taiwan will see the good features in the ipod like the smallness, decent capacity, xfer speed, etc and build them into his MP3 player.
My father often says that when he was my age, he would have never in a million years thought there would be the type of technology there is today.... What will the world be like when my kids are as old as Iam??
It's all GOOD folks
I'll probably get flamed for the title alone, but hear me out. Unless Apple's hard drive supplier has made some serious advances in hard drive durability, the iPod will be nothing more than a niche market toy. I love absolutely everything else about this product, but the worry that dropping it would ruin the hard drive would keep me from using it as it shold be used. Hopefully there will be a cheap mp3 player based on Panasonic and Toshiba's SD Memory cards (that would be sweet) some time soon.
BlackGriffen
Better to let Windows users keep using their Personal Jukebox, or Nomad, or Archos.
Goth wanker.
Looking at the sales of (picking three examples) Pilots, Rios and Digital Cameras, I'd say the number of people willing to spend $200-500 on a "cute" electronic device is "lots and lots."
You're not "looking", you're "imagining". Looking is when you have your eyes pointed at facts. Last year, this was true, and even the Linux-based companies were doing OK. This year, no. Count the layoffs, nimrod. I doubt you'll keep your "fries with that" job much longer.
The Archos players are supported by Linux as of kernel 2.4.8.
See here for more info.
"virtue of being firewire will be limited to Apple Mac owners)," Don't you realize that both Compaq and Sony both use Firewire, they just use it under a different name? I don't recall what Compaq calls it, but Sony calls it i-Link. BlackGriffen
umm...this product is designed to compliment Apple's Digital Hub strategy, where your computer is the hub of your digital lifestyle. You can pay a few bucks more and get a product that you know will be easy, stable, and fast or you can go with a competitor which may be at a lower price, but you may not have any idea of if it sucks or not.
And also, Apple is selling MP3 players at their retail stores. The iPod is going to be right next to competing MP3 players. People will ask those employees "Why should I go with your higher priced solution when there other ones for a lower price?" Apple wouldn't be selling the iPod if it couldn't answer that question.
Personally, I want to see a review by someone who actually owns an iPod.
you know what wouldn't have been lame?
a mouse with more than one button
I wonder how long its taken apple to come out with one of those.
Surely you jest.
1) In capitalism, a corporation -- you know, with a stock ticker -- has one goal in mind: make its shares tick higher so the shareholders don't sue executive management for gross mismanagement. Catering to a tiny market share would normally get a CEO fired, 'cept that Apple shareholders think of Jobs' second coming as The Second Coming. This should never be confused with "The Second Mouse Button."
2) Apple sucks at catering to a user group. 3 words: One Button Mouse. If they really wanted to cater, they'd at least give the G4-tower buying users the option of 2 or 5 buttons... ("It's 4x more powerful than a Pentium 4!" "But it takes me 10x as much mouse-twiddling to do the same damn thing!")
3) Pricing belies a missing user group. You're forgetting that the product that pulled Mac out of the gutter was the iMac -- aimed at a dead baseline consumer. But purchase 2 iPods and you've hit the price point of a starter iMac. (1 iPod is pushing the price point of a low end Duron/Celeron system with 2+ button mouse!)
It's doomed -- straight out. Why do you think Intel closed it's peripherals division? The cute little computer extenders aren't turning a profit. At all. And Apple is saying iPod and iWalk? If I were an Apple shareholder, I'd be saying "iSell".
[Somebody was wondering why people don't like Jobs? Priorities and Personification. Precisely, Jobs personifies Apple -- as Gates does Microsoft -- and Apple displays a lack of priorities. Example: OSX shipping on hardware it doesn't support... but those new iMac colors sure are something, aren't they? And notice this sleek newly-designed usb optical mouse... with the ultra-retro single button! Wow!]
The last several posts on Slashdot's main page regarding Apple product announcements have been followed up by trite, critical comments. Comments of the variety that open source advocates often cry foul when they are made regarding their open source operating system. Hypocrits. There's only one complaint about the iPod I agree with - the typical Apple price tag. Other than that, the product shows a lot of promise.
If this thing was released for Linux and had a makefile that had to be hacked by hand to get it to integrate with some opensource playlist manager that has forked into two products, the main page announcement would have been followed up with something like "Wow! What a great UI! And it supports BOTH hybrids of the playlist manager. And it's GPL'd!"
set CmdrTaco = Lame
Who is really lame?
Apple
@Home
Baby Bells
BeOS Developers
FreeBSD Developers
CmdrTaco
Yes, the new iPod is expensive, but you are getting what you pay for:
Look up a 5GB 1.8" hard drive on PriceWatch. They're currently going for about $350. Add a firewire interface to that, battery, the MP3 player functionality, and some headphones.
CmdrTaco
No clue
Less clue in every article.
Lame.
:)
If you are going to blast the damn thing without even owning one, dont freakin post it to the site!
Brielle
http://www.sinclair-research.co.uk/pages/
The X1 by Uncle Clive, wireless, small and cheap.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
For under $250, you can get a 20G FireWire powered drive (no battery/charger necessary) from one of the name brand Apple add-on manufacturers. Check your local computer store.
Ok, but was it worth all the super-secret big-announcment hoop-la?
Most everyone will offer a resounding 'No'. The device is basically a marginal, incremental increase in many many products already on market (hipzip, archos, etc). It isnt going to revolutionize anything, it is certainly not a 'deal', its really pretty darned expensive, so why all the fuss? Im a little pissed that Apple had to gall to make such a big deal.
IEEE1394? Bigdeal - every MP3 player will have USB2 or IEEE1394 in a few months, its inevitable... its not reason to have an 'invite only' launch.
Apple makes a huge 'event' to introduce a 'me-too' product (for the most part)... im a little pissed that they have the nuts to interfere with geeks and the media and then drop what (most see as) a big let down. I think Apple is starting to over-estimate themselves.
That Apple states that you have to go into Target Disk Mode when you use it for data storage. This is not ideal as you'll have to restart the computer. A bit more effort would have had it mount on the desktop without needing TDM.
The thing is very small. This makes me suspect that the drive may be native Firewire. If this is the case this is very big news indeed. However, Apple doesn't mention the issue in its tech specs. We'll have to wait on this one.
Firewire instead of USB is a no brainer. Please, this thing is an Apple product for Mac users. No windows support out of the box (yet). Get over it or get a Firewire Mac. Sorry, you can't have it all.
Apple is trying to increase its market share. This forms part of its strategy. There will be more devices to come. At some point those devices may be able to speak to each other without the need of a computer. That's one of the reasons to prefer Firewire. Firewire is proven. USB 2.0 is not. USB is not peer to peer either. Apple is trying to give users good reasons to become Mac users. It's not forcing anyone to buy it. Can you blame them?
Mac users normally have to wait for drivers from PC vendors to use consumer hardware and that's if they get them at all. Given the situation is it really so bad that Apple decides to give its users something that goes beyond what's available in competing products on the market?
What's the big deal with HFS+? It's perfect for a mac user. If you don't like it, get onto Micrsoft for HFS+ support in its products and push for more effort on the Linux front. Don't whinge about Apple using its native file format. There's is nothing stopping other platforms using it.
The iPod wasn't designed for anyone other than Mac users. Get over it.
There may come a day when it will be supported on other platforms. You never know.
The device is not revolutionary and its expensive. For that reason I won't be buying one but I'm not going to slag it off based on what I've read here.
Also remember that this a revision A product. Revision B (after Christmas) should be worth the wait.
> They would have to be incredibly stupid
... to get their own vendors supporting it, or at least supporting the systems that it requires (FireWire mass storage).
> not to include Windows support for this device.
I think the opposite. They will have plenty of demand from the half million people who just bought iBooks in the past six months already, simply because it matches so well (in other words, the iBook's quality and ease of use is an iPod advertisement). It is also the Apple Store's first holiday season (brick and mortar, anyway). Come in and spend $1698 and get a brand new iBook and a brand new iPod and they work seamlessly together.
As for Windows, it is not enough for Windows to just support the iPod. The machine also has to have working FireWire ports and software drivers and mass storage support and whatever else. Perhaps a Windows MP3 software vendor will build in iPod support, and then bundle that software on compatible HP or Sony PC's that include the right hardware and software to enable that. If that happens, then iPods will sell themselves to Windows users. If not, then Apple can look at building something like that if it makes sense, and if they can cajole their engineers into putting down their work on elegant Mac OS X so they can foray into Windows, and Windows-style support ("do you have FireWire ports?", "huh?").
For $399, the iPod is the same price as a FireWire drive that has the same super-slim 5GB disk in it. The music features are free. Windows users who want this have a reason to work to get it
you for got one...
windows vs mac
For the immediate future iPod is expected to be an Apple-only device. In its existing forms it is not compatible with PCs that run the Windows operating system.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
It's about product placement (and it's a good thing).
Think about it - how many people have you seen jogging with their iMac hefted onto a shoulder, 80's - style?
Seriously. It's a way to get the apple name out onto the streets instead of sitting on a desk. This started with lots (and I mean lots) of iMac TV placements and hasn't ended yet. Think about it - how many iBooks have you seen out and about, and how many of these did you notice becuase of the big glowing apple on the back, or the candy-colors? The iPod's got the logo on the back too, big and white. Whether it glows or not is yet to be seen.
I guarantee (meaning I really, really hope) that the price tag won't hold too long. Probably drop after the holidays.
And to apple I say 'good for you.' It's a much better way to get attention than the new (and horrifically tasteless) Microsoft / Compaq ads - 'Like stars and stripes - perfect together.'
Oh, and please - think before you flame, particularly on the frontpage. It's closed-minded.
Triv
It doesn't matter. The real world doesn't care aboutg stuff like that....:-)
Once again, a Slashdotter that Just Doesn't Get It. We Mac nerds use ONE arm to reply to each question...in series, just as they are asked. We also use just ONE button (using our ONE hand attached to that ONE arm) on our mouse to click on things, too.
It amazes me what creative things we Mac users accomplish...
But I guess now you will start complaining (like some other dolt did earlier) that since it only has ONE rotating knob, no one will be able to select songs AND change the volume. Sigh...
Scott
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
The killer app for Firewire.
This thing must get pretty warm after an hour of use. I've had a couple of laptop HD drives get pretty damn hot on me. I don't see any vents on this toy. For $400 I'de get cheesed off if it just decided to stop working.
Forever. It is the same prinicpal, remove the choices few people use and most people will find the item easier to learn. Of corse a few people will find the thing useless, but if you do it right you gain more people then you lose.
If you look at the QuickTime "learn more" thing the three "real users" (Moby, "that guy from Smash Mouth", and Seal) all basically say "I'm dumb, and this was designed so even I can use it". Really. It's amazing what people will say about themselves :-)
I have a firewire port and $400 and this looks pretty interesting, but oops, waitaminute, it's Mac only.
WTF?
this thing is perfect for anyone who is getting a computer/mac for the first time. and is going to use it to play their mp3's.
you get 5gb of storage. you can put ALL of your mp3's on that. most ppls collections dont get above that. and if they do...well there will be a bigger one by then. that way you get back the 5gb from your internal HD, and you can take all your music with you wherever you go. since its buspowered you dont ever have to do anything more than plug in ONE cable. all your file management can go on through iTunes, and playback on the desktop as well. this is ingenious.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
the 1.8" drive only transfers at 12 MB/sec, much less than 1394a's current capacity of ~50 MB/sec
Well, Steve Jobs did say at the end of the presentation that they're considering writing some Windows software for the iPod pretty soon. Probably won't be as feature-loaded as iTunes, but it'd give you some access.
--R.J.
Monopoly XP T-shirts!
Raise your hand if you're willing to spend $400 on THIS particular device, with b/w screen, no handwriting recognition, actually rather TOO big (no bigger than Palm V is my ideal size), no PDA functions - oops, sorry, wrong market. . .
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
yawn... whats next from Apple? umm... who cares... this company is to computers what McIntosh is to stereo equipment... over priced but neat looking
when they ban enctryption only criminals wi$21*J *#JF$%!@#$':
I've got a few spare straws if you need to clutch any further..
;)
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
How easy will it be for Apple to introduce CONTENT PROTECTION via a stealth firmware update or something once a market is established and they gain significant marketshare (not really likely at that price IMO)?
Once this thing gets out in significant numbers, Apple's media partners are going to be very unhappy with them - and very large Quicktime format standardization deals are going to hinge on how cooperative Apple is at introducing content protection features.
All Apple has to do is bundle some "gotta have feature" with an OS upgrade, which "breaks" compatibility with iTunes, and then provide an update to iTunes which enforces the content protection, and force the firmware update on iPod to be compatible with the new iTunes. It's not like Apple hasn't snuck unsavory changes into firmware updates in the past.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I wonder if users can format and partition the HD in this thing...
There would be a *very* high geek-factor in installing several linux distros, OS X, and Windows onto a pocketsize firewire MP3 player!
"Leave the strategizing to those of us with planet-sized brains." -Tycho
Who, me? You've got the wrong guy, I *like* my one-button optical mouse.
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
Stupid question time: how long will it be before I can plug this baby into my PS2? :)
-_Quinn
Reality Maintenance Group, Silver City Construction Co., Ltd.
Firewire Disk mode is traditionally on Powerbooks and iBooks where you reboot the computer so it can act act as an external hard drive to another Mac.
It would make no sense to reboot your iMac or iBook so that it was an external hard drive for the iPod.
So if anything, it means that you might have to "reboot" the iPod to transfer files (which would probably take 1 second). But I'm guessing this is more a misused marketing term than anything else.
A wireless setup is better for those that cannot use a wired interface. That includes: those that don't know how to run cat 5 cable,
those that don't want to know how to run cat 5 cable, those that physically cannot run cat 5 cable (asbestos home), those that recognize the benefits of wireless (surf anywhere, including the porch.)
Also, to enable a wireless interface on a Mac costs $100. If the iPod had wireless, it would cost $100 to enable the Mac to talk to it.
Why would I want a Airport enabled iPod?
If it was a stereo component, I could put the stereo in another room, connect to my computer wirelessly, and serve the files from there, no HD needed.
If it was a car stereo, I could pull up into my garage, and it would sync with my computer.
If it were a personal player (which it is), I wouldn't need to worry about whether I put the new songs on it, as I run out of my house.
I would have payed $400 for a car stereo that synced with my home computer when I pulled into my garage, but I'll wait for the price to drop on this thing.
Sure, it's easy to learn the Mac. I did when I was 5. But I need to be more productive now, and the Mac interface makes it too hard.
Speaking particularly of iTunes, how do I script it into apache? How do I use it from the command line? How do I run it on the machine hooked into my stereo from my desktop with the display that is in the other room? This is trivial and elegant in my UNIX environment.
The Macintosh way (much like the Windows way) is to have applications that do everything you want to do. All your word-processing needs in Word. All your web-browsing needs in Internet Explorer. All your audio needs in iTunes.The problem with this way is that in the end it is too restrictive. If all you have is internet explorer, what if you want to do an ``internet-explorer -dump http://go-gnome.com | sh'' Or maybe you want to use internet explorer to recursively download a site for mirroring or archival?
Ahhh... you say... but with OS X or Cygwin I can use bash and lynx! True, true. But at the point you're using lynx and the bourne shell and scripts pulling together cdparanoia, lame, and cdrecord, you're not doing things the Mac or Windows way, you're doing things the UNIX way.
I do computer architecture as my job. It would be impossible for us to use Mac or Windows machines. Some of the things would work -- the assembler would be fine to do in Windows (and there's one that works in Windows) and the simulator would work ... but there are times when we redirect the trace output of one simulator into another to verify things... piping *that* output into a scrpit that gathers statistics and such. You don't just open up the ``save trace as...'' dialog box when you are about to spit out a 100-gig trace file, you need the flexability of being able to stream it into another application. And you don't want to have to open dialog boxes for 80 different possible configurations and sit there and wait for them to run when you can script together doing all the configurations on all the test files spreading across several machines over the weekend.
The UNIX way is about flexible tools. Tools that work well together. Tools that are elegant and flexable. Tools that work well regardless of where you are, where you're coming from, or where you're going. This provides power for the UNIX user that surpasses that which someone using GUI tools on Windows or a Mac can ever know.
Sure, it takes longer to learn. Most of the best things do. The sharper the learning curve, the bigger the payoff. That's why most UNIX gurus use emacs or vi... they're not easy to learn, but they are powerful.
A UNIX guru can't take working with inferior tools. She can't stand sitting there doing a repetative task when she should be scripting it. She understands that her job is to be the master, and the computer is the tool to do the repetative job.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
A brand new PC or an older mac can easily be purchased for $399. If you're a mac-fanatic, get an ibook instead. If you're a portable mp3 player fanatic, get the Nomad instead. Otherwise just burn a CD and use your CD player.
For $399 they should have made it a full-blown PDA as well, there is no way I can see this succeeding.
1. Apple's main market has always been primarily current Mac users.
2. This is an expensive electronic toy.
Who buys expensive electronic toys? The same people who spend a lot on their computers. Every Mac shipped in nearly two years has had FireWire, and iTunes is a free download and has been around a while. The sort of people who have $400 to spend on an extremely cool walkman, tend to replace their computers every couple of years anyhow.
Will they sell a million or two of these? Nah. They don't have to. Apple's goal is to make Mac users happy they're Mac users, and they do that well. This is just another good reason (for some people) to own a Mac. If non-Mac users like something Apple makes, I'm sure they're happy to sell it to them, but they're not the target audience.
This thing is priced high because they can right now...the thing's not even shipping, and the rumor is that supplies are low at the moment...they'll let the people willing to spend $400 on it spend $400 on it until they A) exhaust that market, and B) get caught up on production, and then they'll lower it to $300, and get the people who are willing to spend $300. Why sell it to people willing to spend $400 at $300? And after a while at that price, I suspect we'll see it go a bit lower, and a new, souped up one will appear to take the $400 slot. It maximizes profit and spreads demand out so that they can meet it.
The linked article quotes jobs as saying that they will look at doing a windows interface. (I thinks that they asmost certainly will if they want to increase market share.)
FireWire is less common on PC's, but the stand alone cards are getting cheap and the new Soundblaster Audigy has one included.
USB is too slow for this application.
With PC (preferably linux) and OGG support, I would consider buying one.
Chris
The question really is, if you have Win XP and all you needed was to manually drag your collection to load it to the iPod, would you buy it even without iTunes?
DB
Minus RAM (maxes out at 256MB!?), Firewire, composite RCA output, battery life (not even 2 hours!?), or built-in wireless. It is oriented towards the extreme low end of consumers, but is priced higher than the iBook. Oh, but it's marginally smaller.
People buy that?!?
--Matthew
Aside from the usual pointless editorial comments, Taco's comments don't make any sense. Does the Nomad have some type of wireless module? Not that I can find. Additionally, the form factor of the nomad makes it virtually useless as a "portable" MP3 player.
As for the storage size, big deal. The need to use USB makes the storage space irrelevant. At the blazing 3.2Mbps provided by the Nomad's USB port, it would take you about, oh, 15 hours to load it. Sounds like a fun time. If they weren't stuck in the past and condescended to give their users a modern connection like IEEE1394, it would only take about 6 minutes load their drive.
I think Apple has reached a good compromise in size versus storage. The use of Firewire makes sense because the Apple platform is basically built around Firewire. Also, it's getting tough to find a new Intel system without IEEE1394 ports. Every PC vendor wants to be part of the digital production movement, and that can't be done without IEEE1394.
All that being said, it would behoove Apple to ensure that people using PCs can use the iPod. It may be as simple as plugging it in to your PC-based IEEE1394 port and copying your MP3s to it with a simple drag and drop operation.
I'm pretty tired of Slashdot's constant editorial asides. If you don't think it matters, CmdrTaco, why bother to post it?
I thought this was news for nerds, not CmdrTaco's Soapbox. Maybe it's time to add someone to the Slashdot team that can evaluate news stories that don't have anything to do with CmdrTaco's favorite subjects. Maybe they would have a better chance of being posted without the pithy remarks.
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
Unfortunately, according to the story I read on my.netscape.com (which proves impossible to find whilst surfing around home.netscape.com), the device only allows for one-way sychronisation (ie. download from PC).
Apple mentioned approximately 7 million Macs are compatible with iPod.
Look, I love scripting. I'm sitting here on my Compaq Armada running W2K with Outlook connected to my Exchange Server and SSH connections to our OpenBSD and Linux servers. The right tool in the right place.
When I ran DOS, I used batch scripts for various things.
As an NT Admin (boo, hiss, MCSE, boo, hiss) I used the resource kit and batch scripting to automate many administrative tasks. I also used other Windows scripting languages.
Scripting rocks, in its place. The reason why NT does well in small businesses is because of its interface. Sure, they probably need a pro to set up the box, but the day-to-day tasks can be handled my anyone with any intelligence.
Adding a new user, home directory, etc., is much more straightfoward on NT 4 (not a use 2K server fan) than under a Unix OS.
NT w/ resource kit (full of command line tools, many inspired by Unix), or OS X with the developers tools and a couple of useful GNU or BSD tools, give you the best of both worlds.
When you need to do something fancy, you have the command line to aid you. When you need to just get things done, the UI helps you out.
MS's problem is that the NT 3.51 had a great kernel, but NT4 and NT5 kept adding to the kernel trading stability for speed. They also throw things together for marketing reasons.
X Windows (really, the classic X Windows UI) is a powerful engineering tool. It was designed at MIT (an engineering school...) for engineering students and researchers. It was designed primarily to run xterms, lots of xterms.
Its great for coding, but it doesn't make a great general purpose UI. KDE/GNOME are a step in the right direction, but they aren't quite there. The real trick to GUI design is building the tools based around what the USER does, not how they are represented on the file system.
NT is too hampered by its DOS roots. (I don't mean codewise, NT's userspace, Win32, evolved API wise from Win16, which was bolted onto DOS).
Linux/Desktop developers should REALLY look at how OS X was built. The UNIX system is there, providing a stable kernel and API for running daemons. The GUI has its own system, complete with APIs, spaces in the filesystem, etc. They built a full GUI OS that sits on top of a UNIX system. The UNIX core is there, available, but they built a system for users.
Now, so much of the UNIX functionality is hidden that you can't do everything from within the GUI. Expose more of the system, and you have a more powerful system.
Don't shun it because its Apple, their second attempt at a UNIX GUI is a third system, evolved (conceptually) from A/UX and (directly) from NeXTSTEP (however it was spelt on Tuesdays...)...
Could Aqua be more powerful, sure. Could KDE/GNOME be more intuitive, sure?
CDE, MWM, etc, (Classic UNIX environments) are great engineering platforms...
Right tool for the right job...
Alex
you'd be whining it wasn't released with Linux support. Some people are never ever satisfied.
I find it funny how some people just fail to realise just how good the iPod really is. It's hard drive capacity holds way more than the amount of mp3s i have. And it can act like a hard drive as well. And its bloody tiny. If you can't afford it... don't complain about it. Or just get a raise.
And don't complain about it requiring an apple computer. If you were apple would you think "hey let's make it compatible with windows machines so all those people out there can enjoy our products without buying more of our hardware"
There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod. I guess you don't. This is why Apple is a company with $4 Billion in the bank, and you're trolling on slashdot. Want fries with that?
This has to be the funniest shit I've ever read on Slashdot. =)
"The chief enemy of creativity is 'good taste'" -Pablo Picasso
I can see apple one day bundling this puppy w/ its higher end machines as an added inducement to consumers who will be looking at replacing their older machines - and to differentiate themselves that much more from the rest of the crowded, dull desktop market.
"Hmm... It costs a thousand more but it comes with this kewl mp3 player/portable hard drive that I can bring too and from work/school/shopping every day. And it interfaces seemlessly w/ the computer!"
That pie you refer to.. Would it happen to be an apple pie? *snort*
Looking at thinkgeek.com, there's the "Archos Jukebox Studio 20 MP3 Player," with 20 GB of space for a whopping $349. Apple wants to charge $399 for the iPod.
Someone got to Jobs during a smoke-induced haze, obviously. This has to be the dumbest move I've seen from Apple - and I really, really, really like them...
Arrrggghh. Moves like this do not help Mac users and lovers justify their existence to the IT world as a whole (and don't give me that crap about Apple being "the BMW of the computer world"...).
As pointed out in an earlier post, the 32mb of ram will allow a fairly large buffer (20min.), allowing the HD to be in park most (95%-98%) of the time. Thus reducing the chance of platter damage to almost nil, reducing power usage, and also the heat generated. The only time when this would be untrue is when you are skimming through songs (not just thier names) and it's unlikely that that will be when you drop it, or skim for long enough to generate noticable heat.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
www.pjbox.com, www.mp3factorydirect.net
Takes thin 2.5" laptop harddisks, 10 hours battery life, 2 second bootup time, nice and simple menu system, USB interface.
Been out for almost 2 years but it's still the best HD-based portable player, way better than the Nomad (only 2-3 hour battery life, bigger and heavier, worse sound quality, up to 30 seconds bootup) or Archos.
I've got a 30 gig drive in mine and use it with Etymotic ER4P noise isolating hifi earphones... Can't beat 300 full albums worth of music at 192kbit in your pocket...
What is even funnier is how seriously slashdoties
take a comment like this.
You people are the most rigidly monotheistic computer folks out there.
Hate to have to be the one to break it to you....
For me, my judgement will be when I actually pick the thing up. I have wanted to buy an MP3 player for a while, but all of the units I have held so far (even expensive ones ) have been constructed in such a horrible plasticky fashion I have not been tempted to part with my cash. Perhaps the extra bucks have been spent transcending this flimsy heritage ? I want to buy a player that feels as if it has been machined from a solid chunk of metal.
Like someone has said, every mac in the last 2 years has a firewire port. SO does Vaio. And so will everyone who buys any new sound blaster Audigy card, as they ALL have firewire ports now.
Mouse, Mice. Goose, Geese. Moose... Moose?
For that price you get high quality earphones. I bought the Archos 6gig mp3 player and I had to buy new earphones, because the ones included was really crappy, so there goes another $80.
And lets not even compare the user interface. Only a Windows user could feel that pressing the ON button and Next song is the way to increase volume...
Jacken
Oh thank you thank you! I never would have figured out that consumers spend less on electronic toys in a recession than they do in a boom economy if it weren't for your astounding insights!
Oh wait... "No." And, secondary to that, "shut your noise tube, taco human." Hold off on the stunning macroeconomic analyses until you graduate high school, sparky, and save your pathetic attempts at flaming for the fuckedcompany bulletin boards.
Are we in a recession? Yes. Will sales of consumer electronics be lower this year than last? Yes. Has the consumer electronics market suddenly vanished? No. Is "$200-400" the magic price range that every new consumer appliance shoots for? (Let's see: basically every new gaming console, digital camera, VCR, DVD, ETC ever...) Yes. Are Sony, Apple, Compaq, Kodak, Panasonic, Nikon and the dozen other competitors in this space going to be around and making money even in that far-off day when you grow a set of balls and register a nickname here? Yes, even in that distant future when you achieve sentience. By the hand of Adam Smith and the power of Greyskull, it will be so.
And christ, minus whatever miniscule style points you might have cached and straight into negative territory for your pathetic attempt to somehow drag "Linux-based companies" into it.
Idiot.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
I bought an imac and one of those new fangled quicksilver machines to play with OS X. I'll buy one of these too.. At some point you have to make a choice and support what you believe will be the next big thing. OS X might just be it.
i am the resident mac expert where i work, and most pc buyers buy the computer monitor printer, andmaybe a scanner for 2k.
most mac people buy the mac, monitor, printer, but also throw in the goodies, like airport, isub/soundsticks, dv divices etc. bring the average mac sale in the 5k plus range so i expect the iPod to sell well.
iPod ships with iTunes, on a CD Rom... silly person
n/t
USB is much faster than most home broadband connections, so the time to fill 5 gig will be much less than the time it took to download the files. :-)
Oh, you mean 5 hours?
That's assuming that you downloaded all your MP3s. I'd say that about 90% of the MP3s that I have are from CDs that I own and have ripped myself. But even if you downloaded all your files, it wasn't done at one sitting. A few one day, more over the weekend, etc. It took a lot of time that most users probably didn't notice. When they want to load up something like the iPod, people aren't going to want to wait a long time. They will want to xfer the files as fast as possible and go.
If it were a personal player (which it is), I wouldn't need to worry about whether I put the new songs on it, as I run out of my house.
;)
How fast do you run? I'd say you've got about 20 seconds before you're of of range...
While every one of your other points is quite good about the benefits of wireless, I just don't think that a personal player is the place for wireless. Heck, you've got to charge the thing anyway, this does charging and sync with one wire. Hang on... that's it:
Hey Taco! It is wireless...but to conserve battery, it doesn't work unless you plug in the charger! Yeah, that's the ticket.
-Z
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
Nomad Jukebox is Mac and PC, and as far as iPod goes... it is a firewire disk too... so I'd expect that it is not "officially" supported but any pc with firewire could access it.
What kind of hoop-la did Apple make? They sent out invitations to select press people.
They didn't email the fucking cutomers, they didn't have ANYTHING on their site until after the media event today.
All they did was send out an invitation that said something to the effect of: Come check out our new groundbreaking product. Hint: It's not a Mac"
What do you expect them to say: "Hey, we got this thing... it's sorta cool, well actually it sucks ass, but come check it out anyways.
The hoop-la was created by the ridiculous mac "news" sites and people like you.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
Unfortunately $400 is about twice as much as I'd want to pay for something the size of a pack of cards.
Hmm. Sorry you feel that way... I guess you wouldn't pay $500 for the Canon Digital Elph camera, which Macworld just recommended strongly. I have one, I paid $430 for it, I'm delighted with it, and given the same decision to make over again I'd choose exactly the same thing. I believe it's selling well.
I won't be buying the ipod until Apple makes it play Ogg Vorbis files (which I want because I feel they offer substantially superior sound quality to MP3), but I'll be keeping an eye on the product in hope that they'll upgrade it.
$398
size: 150 x 80 x 26mm
weight: 9.9 oz.
capacity: 6.4 GB
12 hour battery
USB interface: takes almost 4 hours to load
128 x 64 pixel display
buffer holds 10 minutes of music
plastic case / sub-optimal industrial design, to say the least
USB cable and separate brick AC adapter
iPod:
$399
size: 102 x 61.8 x 19.9mm
weight: 6.5 oz.
capacity: 5GB
10 hour battery with one-hour quick-cahrge to 80% capacity
IEEE 1394 interface: takes 10 MINUTES to load
160 x 128 pixel display
buffer holds 20 minutes of music
stainless steel case / Apple industrial design
IEEE 1394 cable and tiny AC adapter that uses the IEEE1394 cable
Simultaneous English, French, German and Japanese support
Automatic synchronization
WORKS AS PORTABLE FIREWIRE DISK
The advantages of the PJB are that it comes with a car adapter kit, a $15 value for those of you who don't already have one from a CD player, and a stereo adapter, $5 at RadioShack. Both come with some decent headphones and the standard sound-quality tech specs. It also has and extra 1.4 GB and 2 hours of battery, both of which are easier to acheive in a bulkier machine. It also has 20 GB and 30 GB options, which might actually be interesting for those needing the space and looking for something between the "CD-player" sized jukeboxes and the "deck of cards" sized iPod and flash-memory players, but the $515 and $665 price tags might make you really start thinking if you'd rather have a second computer insead.
The PJB has a very low resolution display and a UI that is more useable, if much uglier, than most other HDD players, but doesn't even compete with the iPods much higher resolution screen and Apple-designed UI, which you can see here. The iPod automatically synchronizes with your computer, something which you couldn't do with a USB player because it would take hours instead of minutes. The iPod also works as a portable firewire disk, greatly increasing its utility considering the price of an ultraslim external firewire drive. If the PJB does this too, please inform me; I know that many HDD players work as disks, but I would think they would note this on their website if it did. In any event, one of the huge advantages the iPod has over other players that work as disks is that as a FireWire drive it will probably be faer than your internal HD, as opposed to the nearly unuseable speed of USB devices for mass storage.
The PJB is definitely a step ahead of most of the HDD MP3 player competition, but I don't think anyone who has a machine that works with the iPod would choose the PJB. If anything, this device shows that the iPod is priced very comparably to other devices of its kind, of which there are very few. Since the initial price targets were rumored to be $249-299 perhaps there is some chance that the iPod will drop in price quickly as Apple clears up manufacturing issues or whatever the snag with this might have been. An iPod at $249 or even $299 really would be able to dominate the MP3 player market.
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
Rob, for a someone who considers himself a graphics guy, you have remarkably poor feel for the benefit of good design. This thing is half the weight and a quarter the size of the "better" Creative Nomad, can transparently sync with your MP3 collection out of the box using MP3-management software that's better designed, hands-down, than anything else out there. And it transfers the data a hundred or so times faster than the USB and IrDA interfaces on other such gadgets.
And it's got a readable screen, simple control layout, a well-designed UI and long battery life.
If you want a one-pound MP3 jukebox and you want to write your own software to transfer files and you don't mind spending a half hour transferring a couple dozen songs, I guess the Nomad "wins".
Apple's out to make easy to use consumer devices. That's what an iMac is. That's what an iBook is. And that's what the iPod is. Nomad and Archos jukeboxes are interesting gadgets in their own right, but they're not friendly, they're not easy to use, and they're not really designed. iPod may be too expensive right now to be a big seller, and the Mac-only factor will hurt sales too, but if you've got a Mac and you want a hard-drive MP3 player to listen to music on (as opposed to hack on, or do field recording on), it's the hands-down slickest thing around.
A word of advice: if you still plan on being a world-famous computer animator, let someone with some art skills design the characters and do the storyboarding. You should stick to the math and the wireframes.
no good dumbass zealots for: :P
#1 thinking Ipod sucks
#2 condemning all things Apple
and lastly are just JEALOUS, because finally
a well known company has gotten off of it's ass
and embraced the only known o.s. to be rock solid
stable ('nix in general) and made it their own
with the best gui, commercial programs and games that kick ass; not even to mention the fact that
it is all easy as F*@%.
Oh - and the most important thing of all:
all of this and more makes using all things apple an ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE.
Something you turd burglars just don't understand; I suppose to do your nature - "oh goodie another version! I get to waste 30 hours downloading and 5 days compiling and 1 to 3 config'ng!! weeee!!!"
Been there. Done that. Got certified.
Bought an apple!
I moo at thee
I have to say, hate the price, but it looks damn cool. Love the firewire aspect. And it's so damn small. Honestly, Archos was probably the closest thing to portable player before this. And even that was too big. The Nomad Jukebox was hardly something I'd call portable.
Is it overpriced? I really don't think so. I can't afford it, but it isn't overpriced. If you watch the quicktime movies on the apple.com site, you'll notice people handling the ipod in their hands. It looks as small as my Nomad II. So it's as small as my Nomad II, has 10 hours of battery life, has extremely fast transfer, and looks so damn cool. $399. You're paying a premium for size. Hopefully Creative will look at this and innovate. It's really, really sad that no one has done this already. When the hell is the PC world going to have Firewire standard?
The dimensions are 2.4" wide, which is too narrow to fit a standard laptop drive. The PC-Card drives are much smaller and draw less juice, but are pricier than their larger counterparts.
Now Apple can pretend they invented portable MP3 players as well as CD-burners (iToons), Unix, and GUIs.
Apple knows its target audience. Good thing the target audience knows nothing but apple.
looks nice, but when are iTunes and iPod going to support a real encoding format?
Smaller hard drive than a Nomad. Yeah, doesn't it suck only having 2.3 DAYS (at 192kbps) worth of music? If it can't keep me entertained for a month straight, I don't want it.
No wireless? You mean I have to reach all the way behind the computer to plug in a cable? Oh forget it.
It's the size of a pack of cards? Bah! I want my gigantic mass-of-a-brick doorstop MP3 player!
(By the way, the preceding has been sarcasm, not a troll or a flame. The following, however, has no sarcasm.)
It doesn't play WMA files? Thank god.
SIGFEH
Everything about this product is here on the Apple's site.
A nice toy, but way, way too expensive. All mp3 players available right now are just too expensive - such a think should cost no more than $200 to be a good buy...
And if you think that Apple is expensive in the US think about other countries - for the price of an iBook I can buy a top-of-the-line Intel notebook here in Poland...
Emin
Thanks for providing some data on the Nomad between the flames. Hopefully some people will read it and see past your username :)
I find it odd that someone like Apple is moving into the MP3 hardware market the same month that Universal Music is implementing the Cactus Datashield copy-protection on all their new CD's, making it impossible (or at least difficult and illegal) to rip CD's. Is the iPod going to be a white elephant within a year? How is Apple going to protect this product: go up face-to-face against the music industry?
Whats wrong with making the best product in a market and charging a premium for it? Mercedes and BMW do it. I don't see anyone complaining when the new M3 comes out and its "only" faster and cooler looking than your Camry.
sheesh, some people...
Here's a post I put up on MacSlash a minute ago...
If someone else has posted a similar opinion already, I apologize. I didn't see it.
My thinking is that iPod is not bad on two counts:
One, I was thinking of buying an in-dash CD player with MP3 capabilities for my car, which would have run nearly as much and would have required me to carry around 10 CDs full of MP3s to hold this many songs. Now, I'm thinking I can just get one of these with a car adapter, and on long drives to Los Angeles or Tahoe (from Berkeley), I don't have to mess with a thing. And with a 10 hour battery, I don't even need to use a car battery adapter.
Second, I think Apple is using this as a "sneaky" device to sneak large capacity hard drives into our pockets. Basically, once we're used to carrying around something like this, they can build on it. Add the PalmOS or OSX/CE (OK, bad joke, but you get the idea) and you have a PDA with more massive storage than any other. Add a firewire connection to some optics and you have a video camera with 10 hours of battery life, smaller and easier to conceal than Sony's smallest.
The thing I like about the video camera idea is that with tapeless storage, editing is much, much faster, and with the disk unit in your pocket, the camera can be really tiny and lightweight and still have a lot of features. Basically, once they up the drive capacity to 20GB (maybe 3-6 months?), that's enough for 90 minutes of broadcast quality digital video, enough for almost any common event!
Think about it. This is just an iSeed iPod. Many other things can and probably will grow out of it.
By the way, I've made a banner ad campaign for this product, which you can see in rotation at my haiku movie review site. There are several banners up, but if you cycle through a few of the movie reviews, you'll see the banner.
--Benno
All opinions are my own, and you can't have them!
If this thing were running Linux you'd be drooling about how cool this thing was.
Grow up. It's cool. It's expensive. It's shiny.
It's Apple. I want one.
As in Intel Phone Over Data?
2.4" by 4" by 0.78" is
6 x 10 x 2 cm
-- From Denmark
1) All someone has to do is write the synching software for PC
2) All of Creative Labs' new sound cards - the Audigy series - come with a IEEE-1394 port. That alone will put "Firewire" on millions of PCs in the near future, catching up to the Mac.
Just wait, a PC version will be coming. If not from Apple, then from someone else.
This question is possibly already redundant but what are the chances of Linux support? I can't get to the apple site but the linked News article said there was no windows support at the moment- Apple 'might' get round to doing it later.
Man, this looks like a damn fine playa! I have a (damn fine) transmeta-based viao, with fire wire link, and I'd love to link it to an iPod - but if windows support is a way off, then I'd be more than happy with a Linux port from the OS X version.
Does anyone have any have idea if this iPod device will use some kind of standardised format for it's fire wire link - like the mass-storage profile many things follow with USB?
Roberto (slightly over-excited)
Whats the cpu? Speed? Is it Risc based? Is it (iPod) flashable for the entire os (not just the codecs)? Can you run linux on it?
:)
Anyone else think its funny how they werer toting OS X as great because of how its gui looks and how bland others were (even compairing them to a 6 line LCD) and here they are releasing something that doesnt even have color. Irony.
Pretty neat, but it wont be as cool untill someone hacks it and finds a way to put in a 40 gig drive of the same form factor.
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Raise your hand if you have iTunes
Bundled for free on every Mac sold in the last 18 months, and installed retroactively on god only knows how many other ones. Easily in the high hundreds of thousands, possibly in the millions.
Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port...
Every iMac, PowerMac, iBook and Powerbook sold in the last two years, plus almost every Sony VAIO and a good chunk of Compaq and HP's product lines. Easily in the millions.
I didn't realize iTunes was available for my Firewire equipped Vaio, or any PC for that matter...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
At the bottom of page 3 of the iPod faq on the Apple site:
7 23 /www.apple.com/ipod/pdf/iPod_FAQ-a.pdf
http://a1504.g.akamai.net/7/1504/51/0f06b808e34
there's a question about using more than one iPod with a Mac. The reassuring answer is that each iPod has a unique ID, so no clashes occur- but presumably the ID can also be used in a DRM context- don't play any MP3 that hasn't been signed for this particular device, etc.
Roberto
I was about to buy a Jukebox Studio 20 when i heard about this new iPod. Could Slashdot readers give their opinion about the 2 players, Pros and Cons about both systems?
h tml
I'm still wondering which one to buy..
Here is the link to the Jukebox Studio 20:
http://www.archos.com/uk/products/product_500205.
Thanks in advance.
-J
i like this little thing... a *lot*
but... if i could use this as a bootable firewire hard drive, it would be orgasmic.
plug it in, have your x desktop...
:)
each iPod has unique ID - possible hook for SDMI?
i seriously doubt it. itunes lets you copy anything *and* listen to whatever you download from the net. no converting over to another format...
i can't picture apple going the sdmi route.
The New York Times saith, "Mr. Jobs said the company had taken some steps to protect against piracy in its device. For instance, he said, songs loaded onto the iPod from a Macintosh computer, cannot then be loaded from the device to a different Macintosh computer, a step he said would make it difficult for people to distribute music they own to other users."
I guess this shatters any ideas of using the iPod to keep the music collection on two Macs synchronized...
*waves hand in the air frantically*
Well, how many of the new iBooks did Apple just sell? I'd say everyone of those buyers passes your test. Add to that people who've bought a G4 in the last year, and you've got a pretty large customer pool right there (iTunes, Firewire, disposable income). I think they'll sell well.
Personally, 1000 songs in a box the size of a deck of cards is mighty attractive to me. I'm seriously considering buying one.
yeah, 4 mile run, hard drive with moving parts, pound pound pound.
sounds great to me
MB = Mega Byte.
Mb = Mega Bit.
Therefore, 400Mb/s = 50MB/s
For some reasons, some standards always seem to be listed in MBps and some in Mbps. [Normally, it's an order of magnitude thing...I had an engineering teacher who prefered numbers that stayed between 1 and 10, if possible, as he could conceptualize those numbers more easily than 100-1000.]
SCSI, UDMA and Firewire you normally see in MB/s. USB and network connections are normally listed in Mb/s.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
You can get a Toshiba palmtop/subnote for about $400 with a 10gb drive, and it'll be much more useful.
This isn't unique, just a nice MP3 player with the 'Apple Touch'.
They should have included USB however. Maybe since apple didn't, it means USB is dead.
They tried locking people up.
They even tried using Disney cartoons.
Now, they've taken it to a new level:
For legal or rightholder-authorised copying only. Don't steal music.
Politely asking.(#6, down the bottom).
ridiculous...people like you.
No, sorry sir, I made no fuss - I went about my regular news/info gathering as I always do. Apple has taken to releasing their products in a pagent, with all the pomp and circumstance of %your-favourite-hysterical-fascist-state-here% but with little reward or substance.
You see, Apple has begun to take *MARKETING* to seriously. I abhor marketing. I absolutely detest advertising. I see them as polluting the mental health of the world with lies and trash, the worst kind of self-serving propaganda is dumped on the planet day after day after day to the point where people cant get away from it.
When apple, with their 'media' cronies in tow, abuse this ability to 'make news' and subvert it for what was a purely marketing ploy, i am a little angry.
Had this device been innovative in any way, had it been an advance in what we were capable of as a species, had Apple *really* delivered something worth the hoop-la, i would have been less put off - I wouldnt feel so cheated.
A quick search on thinkgeek revealed that currently all MP3 players are USB driven (including the nomad). Me thinks that having a firewire driven MP3 player is anything but lame. Too bad for all those geeks out there still using PCs - guess you'll need to invest in a Firewire extension card :). And as far as the disk-space goes, expect that to increase in the next release of the iPod. I'm sure Apple wants to sell a few of these babies before it pours a bunch more money into it. Expect this one to come down in price and be superseded by one with more disk-space.
Also, note that this player is just slightly bigger than the Rio500/600 players w/ far more space ... something that the nomad can't stake a claim on - the nomad is far to horsey to fit in any of MY pockets!
Finally - design matters. If you like 'em or not, Apple is definitely putting out products that look ultra-cool and dovetail nicely with their other product lines. Most of the players on thinkgeek look ultra-geeky, even the nomad (though its design and the design of the Rios aren't bad). I'm no designer, but I've come to appreciate good design and I'm willing to pay a bit extra for it.
In the interest of halting your campaign of misinformation, let me enlighten you:
1. Although S2000 is not a straightline dragster, it does pull 0-60 times in the high 5's. The lack of low end torque makes dragging a clutch-burining and differential crunching experience over time. I don't find redlight racing much fun in any car, though. So, you got me there. Whoopee for you. (BTW, supercharged S2000's put down about 300rwhp, which results in much faster 1/4 times and trap speeds, but not a huge change in 0-60).
2. S2000's real strength is in high-speed handling. It will beat all Boxsters around most any road track, except that the Boxster S is an even match for S2000. This is a fact. I've raced and driven enough Boxsters to know this. There aren't many roadsters sold in America that can beat an S2000 in the twisties. There aren't any that cost $34,000 and come with a Honda's reliability.
3. S2000 is a Honda, which means that it employs radical new technology. The S2000 engine (F20C) makes the highest NA ouput per litre of displacement of any production car. It revs to 9000 rpm, and engages a variable cam system at 6500 rpms (about the point where most sports cars are redlining). There are many other wonderful innovations in the handling and steering systems, as well as in the design of the interior. The chassis is rock-solid due to its radical x-frame design (something no other open top roadster can claim except perhaps some Lotus').
4. You call it a rice-burner, which is not only lame and ignorant, but offensive to asian people and anyone that respects human rights. That slur also belies your allegience with the chew-spitting, big block american drag racing scene.
News flash: the fifties are over. American thunder is only cool in the following cars: Viper GTS, Vette C5, Panoz Esperante GTR and the LMP.
That's the facts, Jack!
Do some research. S2000 is amazing. Your 0-60 times are off by at least a full second; I usually pull 5.6 or less. It's not a straightline dragster anyway. It's for beating Boxsters in the twisties. Only the Boxster S is comparable, and it costs twice as much with options and has much higher maintenance and failure rates. Do some homework.
BTW, dude. Rice burner is NOT the preferred term.
You can always count on slashdot to immediately pronounce an apple product to be "lame." One begins to suspect that slashdot has abandoned all pretense of objectivity when it comes to certain products/companies.
By the way, for a *sane* article on the introduction of the iPod check out arstechnica.com. Neither ars nor I are in love with the thing but at least they seem to be able to provide some cursory analysis of the products introduction...I mean beyond the slashdot "lame" perspective.
Taco you should be ashamed of yourself. We readers deserve better.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
I wonder if I could boot off an iPod. The drive is big enough to hold a system folder and the apps I use most at temp jobs. That would be especially cool. Everything I need plus music in the size of a deck of cards.
It's like a portable firewire dirve combined with an MP3 player. A little pricey but woth it.
Look, I earned my spending money through college as an NT Admin. I run a small shop developing web applications on UNIX, but my desktop in W2K. My fiancee and I have 4 computers in our apartments, 3 are Windows PCs, 1 is a Mac. I'm not a Mac person, yet I can still respect what they have done right.
You are correct, WMP has successfully copied iTunes to the point of being similar, but it isn't as clean. Personally, I still use WinAMP on my Windows machines for MP3 playing, as does everybody I know. Then again, we all ran Netscape for a while too.
I have always used Audio Grabber/WinAMP for rip play. I used to use l3dec/Nero for burning. I haven't really messed with MP3s in a while, but I've never seen anything like iTunes.
The "playlist" is amazingly useful compared to WinAMP. The computer ships with a bunch of MP3s (which was nice since the computer arrived the day of a trip, and I barely had time to toss Mac:Office on there.
No question, MS has improved TREMENDOUSLY with each release. Win95 was the key release, but 98 and ME were similar evolutions in UI. 98's browser functionality was a marketing move, but it has resulted in some simplification of our lives. ME's media integration was useful. XP seems to be an attempt to match OS X. We shall see, MS seems to be able to be consistently 90%-95% of MacOS, which keeps them in the dominant position because they can undersell.
Alex
The iPod eats the other players I've owned in features. I've owned 2 Sony "mp3 players" and a Rio player.
Sony's hardware has been very nice their designs have been really compact while maintaining some usability. However, super small buttons/switches and small hinge doors break. The biggest weakness is Sony's software interface -it is soooooooo crap. It looks like a bad windows 3.1 application. It actually made me cry the first time I tried to use it. Add to that, Sony players aren't even mp3 players (as you spend a long time changing music into some bullshit format) and Sony's razor blades err I mean memory sticks sell for USD$100 for 64 megs it's really an overall weak product. Oh I didn't mention battery costs.......
Rio's are nice but they aren't using the latest technology. Memory is too pricey and battery life is low. USB is some 30x slower than firewire.
Storage sold seperately? What if the iPod was only $100 without the harddrive would everyone say wow the iPod isn't lame it kicks ass?
-brady
Well... yes it is a bit expensive...
I'd say about 100$ more than a nomad and has 1 gig less space...
OK... BUT
It's really really smaller (at least now you can but it in your pocket) which in consumer electronics makes a difference in price. Also it uyses IEEE1394 which makes sense since at 5 gigs and more, transfering all the data can take a very very long time over USB.
Overall I'd say the 100$ or so you spend on it makes the product way more usable. And if you look at it from a consumer electronics point of view... it really makes sense!
Smaller and is easier to use (takes less time).
That is sufficient to pay the price.
If you guys don't buy them, I am sure they can sell some in Japan.
Apple appeals to a market segment that happily pays $5000 for a niche computer ...
I have yet to see a $5000 iBook or iMac, which is what Apple sells most, mainly to students. And a quick tour through the Apple online store didn't turn up any $5000 Macs (athough I expect that built to order machines might approach that figure).
And what does it mean to be a 'niche' computer anyway? Macs seem pretty general purpose to me.
No Apple gets this one right. As Jobs said, the solution to music stealing is a behavioral not a technical one.
Steve M
And they cost about 1/3 of the iPod price.
There's the Philips eXpanium 401 here, the Compaq PM-1, just announced or the Q-Sonic which is being sold for about $125 by Pearl in Germany.
Yeah, it is easy to shit on the iPod because it only has 5 meg, but I was at the press release in Cupertino, and I was ready to dismiss the thing as well. BUT (big letters but) ... I have to admit I am grudgingly changing my "tune" (ha ha ha)
.... like ANYONE is desperate enough for storage to listen to crap like that. Apple really impressed me by saying that all the numbers (and the baseline encoding rate) is 160kHz. Likewise, I was impressed when they were so forthright about the fact that iTunes can't more files BACK to the base computer, and they did that specifically to keep the RIAA at bay, but you can use the portable hard drive function to trade files all you want. Honesty in hawking a product ... I don't know if the world is ready for that! :)
... but a COMPANY who wants to MAKE MONEY needs to aim a consumer product at the biggest segment of the market. And, depressingly, we aren't it.
Reasons? 1: Firewire. Firewire is all that and a bag of chips. We carry portable firewire drives at work and after you go fire, you ain't NEVER going back.
2: The interface. I have a Nomad. I hate the interface, which ranges from "a chore" to "arrrrrhg" when you have a big load o' songs.
3: The rechargable battery, standard. 'Nuff said.
4: APPLE BEING THE ONLY COMPANY TO REALISTICALLY TALK ABOUT MP3. Companies always tell you that their players can hold this much music, or that their player downloads a song in XX seconds, but then in the small print they say all numbers are for songs encoded at 64kHz
Postscript: (no, not THAT kind of postscript) 5 meg really is all the average consumer needs. 1000 songs at 160kHz? Most mopes will be MORE than happy with that. Sure, us freaks want more
-- There are two kinds of motorcycles. 1: German. 2: Crap.
Ok, it wasn't "people like you". But there is a substantial portion of the Mac crowd that thinks every anouncement is going to be the greatest thing ever (tm), and they provide the hoop-la, and absurdly high expectations, not Apple.
All Apple did was hold a press conference for a new product. While you may abhor marketing and advertising, if you think it isn't necessary you're a fool.
I think the device is innovative in a couple of ways.
1) it syncs with your desktop2) it charges itself while syncing, through the firewire cable, not a power cord (unless you want to use the powercord)
3) it's incredibly small and light
4) the price isn't bad, considering you can buy the drive inside it for $399, the same price as the ipod.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
Having to use MacOS.... :-(
And there is no line outut. And it can not record.
If that's true, this was a VERY poor design decision. This could have been a $150 device if they'd used a regular laptop drive.
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
Is this device firmware upgradeable?
Having to use MacOS.... :-(
Errr, how about getting to use Mac OS X with it?
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Well said.
iPod is a 'one more thing' device that you add to the system on your shopping cart as you go to the checkout in PCWorld/CompUSA, during that warm, fuzzy "I'm spending money, so what's another $400" moment.
I sync my Rio 500 using iTunes...
Actually, that brings up my sole complaint regarding this device. It requires iTunes 2, which AFAIK only runs on OS X. Those of us with OS 9 systems would like to play with Firewire toys as well...
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
You also forgot...
3 hours battery life vs. 10 hours battery life..
http://www.apple.com/ipod/pdf/iPod_FAQ-a.pdf
and they don't.
Isn't USB 12kbps? My cable modem is much faster than that!
I have a website. It's about Macs.
It's called FireWire.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
That the CPU is an ARM 7 (part of the Oxford Firewire-IDE bridge) is strongly hinted at by this article http://www.macobserver.com/article/2001/08/31.2.sh tml which I read about on Macintouch http://www.macintouch.com/ipod.html where I also found this most interesting remark: "Oh yeah, two things I made note of on the iPod. Under the "About iPod" section, I noted copyright messages from Portal Player, and Pixo."
Looks like the iPod uses the Pixo toolbox which supplies Memory Management, Low-level graphics (lines, boxes, bitmaps, text), Unicode(!needed for Japanese!), Collection classes, Resource database, and Standard libraries. Or even more of the Pixo OS platform. The ARM kernel Apple might have recycled from the Newton OS. Check out Pixo's web site http://www.pixo.com/products/products001.htm .
A visit ot http://www.portalplayer.com is also very enlightening, just look what they have to offer:
o ARM-based system-on-chip solution supporting real-time encoding and decoding of digital media, and direct support for all major storage media formats.
o Firmware stack including Real Time Operating System (RTOS), decoders and encoders, encryption and decryption algorithms, file management, navigation and control, and post processing effects.
o A network of technology partnerships and business alliances supporting both secure and open digital audio formats, content services and related capabilities.
o PC jukebox application offers a simple, customizable user interface for content management on the PC and attached devices.
(Unfortunately they also offer Windows Media Rights Management. I hope Apple didn't license that!)
Now there is potential. But it makes me wonder even more why a microphone is missing when encoding is already supported. Maybe it will in the "new and improved version" that Apple like to ship a few months later when the initial sales slow down (latest example: iBook bus and CPU speed bump)
Oxford's web site http://www.oxsemi.com/press/dec00/index.html
is not so informative: "With spare MIPS and over 50% of the flash memory free for user encoding, the product differentiation the device offers will be invaluable in creating competitive advantage"
Does anybody know somebody at Pixo or PortalPlayer to give us some more meat?
And BTW, copying MP3 onto the iPod in firewire mode (which a PC can do) does not make them playable. That would need a real hack.
P.S. It has just been reported that the iPod contains a game (http://www.macobserver.com/article/2001/10/26.12. shtml)
...and this isn't "lame"? And this isn't "lame"? And THESE aren't "lame"?
What's truly lame is slagging off an evolutionary (not "revolutionary") product and instead drooling over clunky set-top landfill fodder.
iPod is Apple testing the waters. There's more to come. I can't afford it, but hey, I can't don't know where my next meal is coming from, either.
You just got a bullseye. CmdrTaco is clearly as gay as michael and timothy. They're all just buttfucking each other while serving ads to stupid Slashdotters.
You're all so fucking pathetic.