Slashdot Mirror
Diamonds & the RIAA
eaglebtc writes "After reading the previously-posted article on cdfreaks.com about the rapid erosion of cheap CDR's, I found another equally scintillating write-up about the economics of music CDs written by Richard Menta, founder of MP3 Newswire. Sure, we've all heard the whining about how CDs are so expensive, but Mr. Menta takes a unique perspective on the issue by comparing the RIAA to DeBeers. He argues that both companies control distribution of products in their respective markets with an iron fist, and by so doing can artificially raise prices. Coincidentally, the bubble is beginning to burst in both markets: the RIAA is fighting against the uprisings of P2P software, and the diamond cartel's lawyers are losing sleep over the $5 diamonds produced in a lab."
If that doesn't work, I predict that your fiance will be expecting a new 'Mars rock' ring, and NASA will finally be able to finance that trip to the moon they've been faking^W talking about.
Wow! The guy must be a genius to see the similarity between the two!!
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
The latest Metallica wrapped in a box of of lab fabricated diamonds. Total cost? $100 Having your headbanging girlfriend love you forever? Priceless
If guys start wedding gals using cheap diamonds, then chicks will just find a new tool with which to implement Expensive Labor of Love strategy.
...are 'too' perfect, and still (sort-of) detectable when looking at earth-mined stones..
De Beers has been trying to 'educate' the diamond masses about these 'heretic' stones, but eventually, this will bankrupt them
Now, as for the RIAA, CD-Rs and file-sharing won't kill the music industry. I wouldn't even expect a drop in sale-price, just more and more bureaucratic nonsense.
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
You bastard! You stole my post earlier today!
Ah well, take it. Thanks to sleep deprivation, there's plenty more where that came from.
.. who needs them when you've got your own cubic zirconium-edge cutting tool. As for the CDRs - anyone else making mental connections between this and DVD Rot?
I knew I should have waited two more years before getting engaged!
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
However, unlike the RIAA, DeBeers never promised that the prices of their diamonds would come down when market forces and economies of scale entered. Remember when CD's first became available? I can remember saving my change so I could afford some of the first CD's that came onto the market at what.....$15-20? Did the price on those ever come down? No.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I saw no mention of $5 diamonds:
"But they were made by a machine in Florida for less than a hundred dollars."
Dogbert: So you're telling me that if I give you thousands of dollars, you'll give me a pebble you found on the ground?
Store Owner: These are not just ordinary rocks! They're precious and virtually priceless diamonds!
Dogbert: That's only because you chose to restrict the supply.
Store Owner: Ok Ok you figured us out. I'll give you a bag of diamonds if you'll keep quiet.
(Dogbert walking away with a bag of diamonds)
Dogbert: Well now I'm a party to this dirty little secret...
the problem i've had with riaa for a while now is the discrepency between cost and sell. if a cd costs several times less to produce than a cassette, why does a recorded cd cost up to twice as much. perceived value. incidentally i used to be the IT manager for a jewelry wholesaler and it opperates much the same way there.....and they are getting boned over these lab diamonds
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
DeBeers dosn't have a total monopoly on diamonds now, and there is no reason that any democratic government would give them total control.
What will probably happen is that lab-grown diamonds will still be very scarce. The people making them are being very secretive about their processes and even their identities. They could sell their diamonds for $6 or $6,000, what do you think they'll do?
Maybe in 10 years or so the processes will be widespread enough to kill the market.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
How many times are we going to slashdot that poor site!
Also note that no DeBeers executives have set foot on American soil in several years -- there afraid they will be arrested for their monopolistic practices! So why don't we treat RIAA the same way? Oh, they're headquartered in the US and contribute a lot more to political campaigns...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
both are made under several tons of intense electric and heavy metal presure ;-)
Gee thanks for the offtopic mod. Too bad it's right on topic. . it's all about the lobbyists pressure on lawmakers that keeps legistlature out there allowing the RIAA and debeers to keep their aging practices alive.
Music encoded on to diamonds! Little stones could hold tons of music for a very very long time.
The CD you buy has some "value added" features - artwork, lyrics, maybe an interview, etc. The copied CD will have none of this, and will be in a slightly lossy format.
Mined diamonds are less "perfect" than the synthetic ones. Thus, there will be a demand by folks with money to have the "real article".
Personally, I'm cheap, so gimme the copy and the lab gems! But that's a choice.
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
The $5 synthetics are "industrial quality" diamonds and are used in manufacturing tools and products, not for being inset in jewelry. DeBeers is in the jewelry business and until the $5 synthetics can meet the same level of visual quality and appeal of a natural diamond, they aren't sweating it.
The real reason why DeBeers is sweating is the $1.5 billion worth of diamonds sitting in Israel which, if released into the market, could send diamond prices spiralling down.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Maybe they will last longer?
So these $5 diamonds from the lab are now available -- oh no, real diamonds are no longer going to be so rare and expensive!
Guess what, they aren't rare now! Just expensive.
DeBeers has created an artificial diamond market. If all the diamonds that have been mined were allowed on the market, they'd be cheap.
If you want to buy your wife something really rare, go with a ruby.
Diamond Myths
Even if Debeers can bring this innovation down and integrate it into their monopoly, they cannot keep their empire forever.
With the benefits that diamonds can bring to the tech sector, there will be a large demand for cheap diamonds with the right molecular properties. In other words, demand will bring about many more synthetic diamonds and Debeers can't stop them all.
Green Monkey san
According to the constitution the Congres should not comply with short-termed interest and popular wiews that don't reflect the believs of the whole people. In fact they shall instead decide after the opinions of the voters and after listening to organizatins and collecting the campaign contributions from the involved parts decide what would be in the best interest of the people.
So your special and limited opinions about RIAA are not the only truth.
Proud patriot and republican voter.
Among non-living things, the best carbon based object is considered to be diamond. Among living things (which are mostly carbon based) women are considered best. (It seems that's the reason women like diamonds so much.)
Artificial diamonds are here. When are artificial women coming up?
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
roflmao
Is it just me or does it seem like many corporations are now ignoring the will of the people? I think that a few of the more *noteworthy* corp. out there are letting bulls run loose in their china shops by relentlessly pursuing issues that the public deems to be ...tiresome. Especially SCO. And the RIAA could better spend its energy trying to catch up to the digital wave then pursuing petty lawsuits against students.
About a year ago as I recall
Antoher reason I am glad I have ducked the marriage bullet to this point.
(honestly it wasnt that hard, I am a geek after all)
Cheers
Wax on, wax off baby!
By claiming that it is ok to use p2p technology as an alternative to buying cds or music online through legitimate sources, using the authors own analogy, he's implying that it's ok to steal diamonds from DeBeers because you think the price is too high. That's a more accurate analogy than the one he actually makes, anyway. A manufactured diamond is a legitimate competitive product. Copying a song because you don't want to pay for it, but still want it, unfairly lowers the value of the owners product, which is no better than theft of the product outright.
Vote for Pedro
There are so many companies trying to profit from the loss of sales in CD's(too expensive, copying, plain bad music).
The money the RIAA is spending on anti-piracy tactics should be used to profit from this. They aren't going to scare millions of users into not copying. It's impossible. They'll be suing people for the next 10 milleniums.
Create a plan to start making some of your lost revenue back or accept it.
ogg
Black cat, searing pain, flames...? I must be in Heaven! - Homer Simpson
Sure I can agree with that somewhat. .even if you weren't serious (I couldn't tell), but I'd rather have congress voting on what the majority of the people want short term that what the highest-paying lobbyist says.
They are similar becuase of artificially created scarcity. We are moving into an age of plenty. We can already print real objects using a modofied inkjet. It shouldn't be too long (compared to the time between the printing press and the computer) until our computers can produce most anything we want from a pile of atoms.
The better question is, what becomes scarce? Knowledge? Art? Service technicians for replication devices? I've yet to hear a good answer. The elimination of scarcity throws our entire economic model out the window. What's the new model? Do we go Star Trek and only care about improving ourselves?
DeBeers has something to worry about because there is nothing illegal about making artificial diamonds. (In fact, it's far less morally reprehensible than the virtual slavery of people in Africa caused by the bloodshed and civil wars that occur over diamonds and other gemstones.)
On the other hand, while music sharing causes a significant problem for the RIAA, they can still do something about it. The issue of the RIAA's price fixing will never be resolved until some method is devised and implemented successfully to bring independently-produced music to the fore.
yes yes i know, this is a common saying but it definitely should apply here... the RIAA is a totally American organization that the government/law basically supports through the DMCA and other stupid laws....
while debeers is a multinational corp that makes tons of $$ but our govt has not made any diamond protection laws for them....
Diamonds are a rotten analogy because it suggests that, up to now and the magic golden age of P2P, the publishing industry posessed all of the real music. The only thing that really distinguishes their product is that it is so obvious. If you never want to buy a major label release again but want new music all the time it really is not hard at all to do. It just involves a little more work.
There are two ways in which the internet may create a revolution for independent musicians. One is by offering a viable replacement for radio. The second is by exposing music to the distributed filtering techniques of mass exposure and moderation that the internet essentially gave rise to the invention of. File sharing as such strikes me as something that will be much of an adjunct to the real 21st century revolution of music - assuming it really happens because it sure hasn't yet.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
n/t
Did you know that there is a 2% surcharge on all CD recorders sold that goes directly to the RIAA, and a 2% hidden tax associated with the AHRA that is collected by the RIAA to give to artists, yet only roughly 36% of that 2% goes to the artist. www.boycott-riaa.com
I stopped buying all music as a moral stance. That purchase of that Jewel record could be funding terrorism, slavery, and, the most repugnant of all, future Jewel records.
You aren't paying attention. Previous artificial diamonds are too small for gems, they are used as abrasives in drill bits and so on.
These new companies are not making diamond dust, they are making gem size diamonds, and plan to use the income from that, as they destroy deBeers, to finance making diamonds for semiconductors, as in huge wafers.
Maybe you could come up with some definition for "industrial" diamonds, whatever that is, and then update it for the new artificial diamonds, and realize it has no more meaning.
Infuriate left and right
[...] both companies control distribution of products in their respective markets with an iron fist [...]
I'd say that this comparison is a bit inaccurate. DeBeers can reduce the number of diamonds offered on the market - supply drops, demand raises the price of the good. Simple. Raising the price and keeping the amount of goods offered at the same level will lead you nowhere, because customers will wait for the prices to drop since they know that a surplus of goods will build up over time (which decreases the price).
Now, does the RIAA really reduce the number of CD in the stores? Because only this would compare to the influence DeBeers has on the market... No, they just raise the price. And guess what - customers buy less CD and turn to P2P.
P2P music sharing distributes a good (mp3) that is nearly equal to the original good (CD). While the $5 diamond may be equal in the quality compared to a 'real' (= DeBeers) diamond, the price is part of the value of the 'real' diamond. Give a $10 ring to a woman, and she'll like it. Give the exactly same ring for $1000 to a woman, and she'll feel appreciated. Diamonds are a girls best friend, after all.
My cats ate my karma. They also wrote this comment.
Some sucka I work with just dropped 25 large on a diamond for his woman. I'll have to forward the diamond story and see if I can hear his weeping through the office wall. heh
We have two seemingly seperate industries. Both, like mentioned in this post, rule their respective markets absolutely. The RIAA controls the price of CDs and DeBeers controls diamond prices. Both of them have been having to put up with some competition.
/. population seems more concerned with the RIAA placing fake copies of Christina Aguilera songs on KaZaa.
Gemology, a florida based company, is making synthetic diamonds for very little money that are near flawless. A 3-karat stone runs about $100 US. There is also a Boston based company that hasn't begun selling yet, but claim to have perfected a process that makes better diamonds than Gemology at a lower price. Meanwhile, dozens of P2P and blank media companies are developing new ways to "compete" with the iron-fist of the RIAA.
Everyone flames on the RIAA because of their lame tactics that are more annoying than effective at eliminating file-swapping and burning. But what about DaBeers that has been instigating international crime and inflating prrices on diamonds for decades? Near constantly we see stories of little children being tortured over diamonds in Africa yet the
I am not trying to sound preachy. In fact, I don't really care about kids in Africa. Or anywhere for that matter. All that matters to me is being able to download whatever I want, whenever I want. And write longwinded posts on Slashdot with a good premice that go absolutely nowhere.
The only place I could find work as a writer is at Fox News. Sure, I can't make a point but I am "fair and balanced" TM.
The New Root Council, kickin' ass sinc
Congress is told by the Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) that file trading is theft. In reality the P2P services bring balance to a system long unfairly tilted to favor the supplier.
In reality, file trading is *still* theft because you're breaching the artist's copyright. He's comparing apples and oranges...music is a personally created work of art which is copyrightable. Diamonds are a naturally occuring deposit that just happen to be horded by one relatively nasty company. While I agree the two bare striking resemblances in their distribution models (read: iron fisted), that's where it ends.
The hullabaloo over file sharing is that, since music can be digitized, it can be easily replicated. We all realize by now that the reason P2P is succeeding is because it came up with a more convenient, but less secure, form of distribution. The RIAA's argument is that because music can be duplicated, they will lose the group of customers who would noramlly all individually buy an item but who instead buy one and dupe. A parallel would be DeBeers, had they created the Hope Diamond, getting pissed because someone was able to replicate it and sell it for $5 on the street.
That's not the case, this company is creating new diamonds (parallel: independant artists) that will use the same distribution model (retail sale, more than likely) as DeBeers. The only person who should be getting pissed in all cases is the owner of the original work, which for music is the copyright holder, with diamonds it's God (or, for you scientists, Mr. Pressure). I don't think God (or pressure, for that matter) cares.
It still infuriates both DeBeers and the RIAA, so I understand the comparison, but please don't argue that new, cheap diamonds are the same as P2P. One's legal, one's not (in most cases).
--trb
If my hypothetical fiance presented me with a $14,000 lump of carbon, my first response would be "Are you fuckin' insane?!"
My second would be "Sell the rock and let's get a plasma TV."
Gems are just sparkly pencil lead.
-Carolyn
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
"You should spend about a month's salary on the next Britney Spears album."
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
The RIAA has Hilary Rosen.
Obviously, the RIAA is a much worse threat.
The author claims that P2P hels to reduce the scarcity of new music. That is not true, though. It may help to improve the availability of existing music (as in "this CD is sold out; let's download it", which is a quite unlikely scenario), but the vast majority of P2P users still download the music that's published by the Big 5. Thus, new music is no less scarce, it's only more readily available. Only if P2P signifficanly improved the current music catalogue (plenty of new high-quality artists), he'd have a point.
DeBeers still has awhile to inflate their market by the simple fact that these are "colored diamonds". The process that is used in Boston and in Florida have been used to create artificial diamonds for quite a few years now (Where else do diamond tipped blades for saws come from?) The aritificial diamonds always had problems with clarity and color due to the process used. Once that problem is fixed then DeBeers will have issues.
So, lets say you have to buy a ring*, but you don't want to give DeBeers money. I suggest you buy Moissanite ring. Myself, when faced with that decision, I bought a Tanzanite ring because my honey likes Tanzanite, and I hate DeBeers.
;)
True, Diamonds won't be expensive for long, and Moissanite is cheaper now, and may eventually cost more than diamond. But, Moissanite is harder than Ruby, and has a greater luster than diamond, and it also costs about 1/10 of what diamond does today.
* One day, you will find a nice little woman who wants a ring, and generally it is best to get her one!
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
CDs aren't forever, but the force of copyright means that if you cut a Big Hit(tm), you and your heirs can have a recurring revenue stream for a long time, along with all the fat, balding, over-40 WASPs who are the bulk of the middlemen pushing your work. So RIAA wants to hawk as many "legit" jewels as they can without someone undercutting them. That you can buy some DRM'd songs and can't transfer them to a new system. Hard to find anyone against the concept of playing a "used" MP3 on their system, right?
The CDV folks are talking about $5 per carot. (of course this is for an ingot that makes the hope diamond look small) each diamond may be expensive, but the cost/kg can be much lower than hiring thugs to maim Africans that live near diamond mines.
Think global, act loco
I'd agree with you but that Kirk show that was on the WB left a bad taste in my mouth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I think over the long haul the point is the RIAA controls the distribution of music. Not their current catalog. Check out IUMA or your favorite garage band's website. There is a large and growing body of good, legal and free music on the web. At some point this will destroy the people who are trying to control the music industry with or without P2P.
Home Automation & Linux -- now I know I'm a geek
I haven't read all the comments yet, so this may be a dupe, but the author of the article is not comparing apples to apples.
True, both the member companies of RIAA and DeBeers are cartels, but what one controls through rarity (diamonds) the other controls through absolute control (music).
The author points to the fact that RIAA companies have pumped out 20% fewer new albums, and then somehow tries to parallel this to the same stratedy as DeBeers. Doesn't work I'm afraid. A diamond is a diamond, and having control over how many are on the market allows you control over price (assuming demand stays the same). The same is not true for music CDs...one album is not the same as another.
If (for example) the latest U2 album had been put out with only 100,000 copies made available, then the price could be pushed up on those CDs much higher as demand would not be met by that number. However, the price is completely uncorrelated to how many other albums are available.
A better correlation between DeBeers and RIAA would have been to focus on the loss of control each industry is facing. Diamonds will soon be cranked out at $5 per karat, and garage bands can now reach a global audience without RIAA interaction. The RIAA isn't playing nice in its death throwes, and I shudder to think what DeBeers will do in theirs.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
Here's a great article written by Steve Albini on problems with the music industry...very revealing.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
PS: Steve Albini for those that don't know was in many bands very influential to the Nirvana/Pearl Jam type bands of the day. Bands like Big Black and Shellac...then he turned to producing bands like Nirvana and Bush and others...
Eventually, these processes may become cheaper than manufacturing glass.
Read "The Diamond Age".
Wowzers, if that subject line doesn't get me mod'd down, I don't know what will.
;)
So, the RIAA's issue is they haven't yet found a way to make money off of file sharing. If there was money in it, they'd be fostering it, not trying to kill it.
So, they're pursuing two directions right now. Fight tooth and nail to protect their current bread and butter (CD sales). They're not doing this for the artists... lord no, they're doing this for the labels. THe other direction they're going is trying to find new sources of revenue. NOTE: This new source must be as large if not larger than the existing stream (from a margin perspective).
Once they find a way to make money on filesharing, I bet two things happen. a) they stop harrassing folks and b) CD prices drop b/c they're no longer a one trick pony.
Sooooo... in an effort to stop the lawsuits and help get CD prices down, we, the buying public, need to find a way for the RIAA/labels to make billions off of online file sharing... hopefully without some terrible DRM integrated into the solution.
There have been many attempts... the $0.99 downloads are the most recent and most successful... but they're still not much compared to the brick and mortor sales that are occuring.
Put your heads together! Come up with a feasible way for the RIAA to migrate to a new business model and make all our lives easier.
I dare you.. find a hole in this logic
I'm down with that, as it were
Read the fucking article dickwad. These aren't $5 industrial quality diamonds, they are $5 gem-quality diamonds.
You fucking moron.
That's better than Robbie the Robot. He took several weeks to crystalize diamond.
then i can match my distate for de beers with my distate for the RIAA - and get a nearly scratch-proof optical storage disc for all my mp3s!
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
The Wired article explains that it looks like the people who manufacture these diamonds will sell them to diamond sellers relatively cheap. They will be declared "cultured diamonds" meaning that they are man-made. Of course no woman would want a cheap man-made diamond. What the diamond sellers are doing is sell these diamonds, which they KNOW are man-made and bought pretty cheap, at close to or at the standard rate and NOT declare them man-made. The savings doesn't go to the end customer, but to the diamond middleman - the diamond store at the mall.
squeezes the punters for all they can.
:-)
DeBeers in diamonds, M$ in software, Apple in hardware (seen any Mac clones lately? [though to be fair, the G5 is power at a great price because of the PC competition.]
Anywhere there is no competition there is gouging.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
How is that a troll? Don't get angry just because your girlfriend turned down your proposal after you shelled out 5 grand on a ring
The RIAA does not sell you CDs. They are an advocacy organization created to represent the major labels' interests. This is especially useful when those interests run contrary to those of their consumers. Just look at this thread: lots of invective directed at the RIAA; not so much at the labels that bankroll it.
Boycotting the RIAA is a laughable notion. What are you going to stop buying that they produce? Their press releases? Their legislative advocacy? They don't make much else, and I don't think either of those are particularly big earners. It's a bait-and-switch, and a rather brilliantly effective one.
In any event, the DeBeers analogy is further flawed: in the diamond marketplace you can buy from alternate sources for higher prices. In the music marketplace there is no shortage of competitive alternatives -- check the web and find some bands playing bars near you, or just download some legit mp3s from some smaller record labels and see if there's anything you like. It's not hard to find worthwhile music. It may take slightly more effort than just buying whatever shows up on TRL, but there are alternatives.
Given that fact, you can't really compare the RIAA to DeBeers. There's no monopoly in the music industry, unless you're willing to maintain that the industry has control of all the best music. And saying that would be pretty dumb indeed.
Since diamonds can be produced cheaply according to the previous article. I want a cd made of a solid piece of diamond. Then I'll never have to worry about scratches again. And if I wanted, I could sharpen the edge and flex my l33t ninja skillz!
should be the title of this post, since there's a weekly florida attack. possibly by jealous people living outside of the tropical regions of our neighboring country, the us.
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
Agreed. I'm not sure how it would work (indeed, it wouldn't ever be signed by congress or the president), but I'd like to see a system that forbids campaign contributions and lobbyists. I would say that non-profit groups could be exempt, but then companies will just form non-profit groups (is the RIAA a non-profit group?) and the system would be the same.
Along with that, too many congressman have been in congress for most of their lives (Strom Thrumon wanted to run for president with segregation as his key platform??). They obviously become deeply entrenched in the pockets of 'campaign contributors' and no long have interest in the the needs of the people. They just want to hold on to their rich little bubble of status quo. Who's in favor of cutting congesss' pay, at least? That way potential suitors will be there for the cause, not the money.
Ideally, there would be voting computer in everyone's home. Thus, the question, "Shall we bomb the piss out of Iraq", would have been answered by a few million people. Of course, then you have issues like, "Does the CIA exist?" and "Who do they report to?" (Among others, obviously)
It's probably more reasonable that we make voting day a national holiday and offer a tax break to voters (Australia does this, no?). The general apathy seems to be at an all time high in the U.S. (or all time low, depending on how you look at it).
He argues that both companies control distribution of products in their respective markets with an iron fist, and by so doing can artificially raise prices.
I'm sorry, but I call BS. CDs have been $15 as long as I can remember. Over the past 10 years, my phone bill has gone up, my cable bill has gone up, and my electric bill has gone up. Even my salary has gone up. But CD prices have remained remarkably static. $15 buys you a new CD. It did 10 years ago, and it does today.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
The problem, is that the guys do not have the same "promise and/or commitment" made back to them in return. What happened to the ole days of the dowry?
;-)
If I have to buy a 10k ring, I want a 10k Shelby Cobra kit with some power tools to put it together. Everyone knows that 50's & 60's era solid steel muscle cars last forever
Because this is about the RIAA, and it brings out the worst in me, I couldn't help but bring your attention in this analogy of the diamond trade and the music trade - the "Blood Diamond." Does the RIAA have blood on its hands ... (of course this is meant only in the sense of extending the analogy ... so RIAA please don't try to sue me ... ha ha.)
Blood Diamonds
http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/diamonds.html
Greg Campbell is the author of the forthcoming Blood Diamonds: Tracing the Deadly Path of the World?s Most Precious Stones (Westview Press), to be released in September 2002.
Illicit diamonds make fabulous profits for terrorists and corporations alike. The trade illustrates with the hard clarity of the gem itself that no matter where human rights violations occur, the world ignores them at its peril.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
While the thought of getting a cheap engagement ring that is of better quality than a real diamond excites me, what really gets me going is that diamonds will replace silicon within computer chips.
They have created p-n junctions with diamonds and one page of the article talked about creating a diamond Intel processor- cool stuff!
The article talks about how as computing gets faster and faster, the heat produced will be too much for silicon wafers. Diamonds have the highest thermal conductivity out of any material out there- meaning that we can keep pushing the gigahertz without melting processors!
You never know, you know.
They don't need it. They control more of the diamond market than OPEC does oil, but look what OPEC is able to do. To control a market, you need three things:
1. You are the largest player in the market, with a high total market share,
2. You have a large oversupply of the product,
3. You have the ability to crash prices by releasing your oversupply.
So what happens if someone mining diamonds were to challenge de Beers? de Beers would make sure that their network of retailers don't do business with that producer. They'd also release some of their capacity to temporarily drop prices. That would put that producer out of business.
The artificial boys are different, because they can make stuff cheaper even than de Beers can get it out if they dropped their prices as much as possible, probably.
What will probably happen is that lab-grown diamonds will still be very scarce. The people making them are being very secretive about their processes and even their identities. They could sell their diamonds for $6 or $6,000, what do you think they'll do?
That's true. Both have a vested interest in keeping prices high. What *should* happen is they should get a deal together where they divide the pie, with neither side stepping over it. Kind of like OPEC. If they did it in the US, it would be collusion, but they don't have to do that. We'll see.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
The RIAA's "xxx's is killing music" (substitute cassettes, P2P, MP3, whatever comes next) is somewhat undermined by all of this.
Menta makes the point that CDs are priced by the big five at the point that maximises profit. No surprise then to hear that whilst UK CD sales were up by 3%, profit was down by 2%.
Um, Kirk left a bad taste in your mouth? Ick.
"Now, as for the RIAA, CD-Rs and file-sharing won't kill the music industry. I wouldn't even expect a drop in sale-price, just more and more bureaucratic nonsense."
yeah, but while they're fighting the hydra that is internet filesharing, real artists will be using these ridiculously cheap methods of distribution to pump out music thats actually worth listening to.
The difference between DeBeers and the RIAA is that De Beers is going after the real threat to its business, the RIAA is just flailing scared.
skye
Two words:
Price War.
The general's not a fool. He won't sell at $5/carat. He'll pitch them at 10 - 50% cheaper than DeBeers. Cheaper diamonds, but not *ridiculously* cheap diamonds. Just cheap enough to get the cost-concious buyer to think "Yeah, it's artificial, but it's still a flawless diamond, and it's 25% cheaper than that other, identical stone...".
DeBeers will either have to reduce prices, or deal with the General. There's a good chance things could get nasty. If the general and his process survive, the consumer will benefit.
Or do you not speak English?
You can level the playing field a bit (but not entirely CS) with a Prenuptual Agreement. Of course, it's a bit unromantic. But a GF that wants to saddle me with the default law is worse than unromantic -- she's being insensitive to _my_ needs (unloving) and possibly grasping. I'd run.
No he's not. Downloading a copy of a CD is copyright infringement commited by the person sharing the files. It is not theft commited by the person downloading them, as no physical good has been removed without permission. The author would have to be saying it's ok to walk into a warehouse that CDs are shipped from and steal a few from the warehouse, that would be equivalent to stealing diamonds from DeBeers. Since diamonds don't have an intellectual property component (you don't copyright the diamonds, cut or uncut), there is no analogy to draw between the use of p2p and stealing diamonds.
Question: Assume we can eventually manufacture gem quality diamonds for dollars on the carot... What is to keep US jewlers from buying these $5 diamonds and reselling them at the standard DeBeers rate?
The way I see it unless there is legislation forcing jewlers to disclose the source of said diamond they would just rack up the profits.
Apple free since 1990!
LOL, what idiots
For anyone not seeing it, the parent post was at +5 for a bit
Dumbasses
I also agree that diamonds are utterly overrated, luckily my girlfriend seems to feel the same way.
However, regarding the particular gem you linked to - a gem that changes color in different light seems cool to us technically minded folk, but I think you will see horror in the eyes of a fashion minded person when the outfit they carefully put together no longer matches the new color the gem takes on when they change locations.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
marry me...
if a cd costs several times less to produce than a cassette, why does a recorded cd cost up to twice as much.
For one thing, there's just more demand for CDs. For another, a CD booklet is usually much bigger than the fold-out card included with a typical cassette, and somebody has to be paid to design the art. Plus some CDs have "bonus tracks" that do not appear on the cassette version, and it costs to license that extra song from the songwriter, record it, mix it, and master it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Reminds me of the one where a guy freezes himself after a robbery (diamonds? gold?) only to wake up in a future where gold and diamonds are cheap as sand...
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
There currently are two companies growing artificial diamonds. Gemesis creates yellow diamonds with up to 3 carats. Apollo is growing clear, perfect ones, using vapor deposition. With time, they can basically grow them as large as you like.
You can read the details in a Wired article.
How is somebody finding a way to synthetically replicate a rare natural resource the same thing as violating copyrights?
Wired magazine made a claim of artificial diamonds for $5/carat instead of the current $1000/carat, but I think it's one of those "any day real soon now" claims. Nevertheless, the bottom is due to drop out of the diamond market any day real soon now, so I don't consider them a good investment.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
yeah. .we spend all this money "making sure the voting system works". Why not give folks a $5 tax credit at income tax time if they get their arse out there and vote. Isn't that part of the voting system working?
You're waaay off. It's ironic, really - DeBeers stands to lose a fortune because someone has figured out how to make artificial diamonds. The RIAA, on the other hand, has been making more money than ever after figuring out how to create artificial music.
Not a lot of people know this, but Justin Timberlake was created in a lab.
for telling real from synthetic. If I ever am in the market for a diamond, I'll make sure it's synthetic. Screw DeBeers. They're one of the main reasons I've never bought diamonds. Well, that and the fact that I think they're just expensive rocks, and not very pretty ones at that - I like other gems better.
Does your Cartel seem destined to fail in future markets. It's time you learned how to succeed. The Very Successful Drug Cartels will be having a convention this fall. Don't let your Cartel go the way of the Railroad Express!
... Extortion
... Bribery
... Price Fixing
... Secret Pricing
... Lobbying
... Obtaining cheap 3rd World Labor
... Becoming a government monopoly
... Murder, Mayhem and Intimidation
... Finding the trouble makers
... Going Multi-National
... End Competition for Good!
Choose any of these great topics...
and for the truly abitious
Sign up now for priority seating. Check our some of our current well known registered participants.
Music - RIAA
Video - MPAA
Diamonds - DeBeers
Oil - OPEC
Don't start a Cartel without checking out this conference. Only one Cartel per Industry please.
I posted this article, Have you ever tried to sell a diamond in the previous discussion on diamonds. It is a thourough history on the DeBeers cartel and how they created the myth that "A diamond is forever". It should be required reading for any young man about to be duped into blowing a big wad on a "cheap" rock.
To be honest, I am just sick of the RIAA, the music cartel, their lobbying^H^H^Hbribing politicians to buy laws that suit just them while shafting the normal people who cannot afford to purchase legislation and subpoenas from these bought and paid for legislators. So I voted with action..
I now live in Asia, and have a fast connection to the internet (>25Mb/sec). So I put my whole music collection on it. So now what will the RIAA do, sue Asia?
Not real likely...
In the end, these jokers cannot win...
For those of you who have wives or girlfriends who will complain about receiving a $5 diamond vs a "real" one, check this out: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/82feb/8202diamon d1.htm
"I bent my wookie." -- Ralph Wiggum
And that seems like the reason divorce rate is so high. Maybe I'm too new to this game (just engaged this summer), but if your woman would rather have a diamond than a chunk of glass, then sack up and make her happy. I mean, I saved enough for a 3/4 carat ring working retail at Home Depot while going to school full time and would GLADLY do it again just to see the look on her face when I opened the box. It wouldn't feel nearly as good if I were lying to her about it. In the case of an engagement ring, it's the first thing you'll be giving her as your new fiance. Don't make it a fucking lie, man.
The Wired article about making diamonds describes how General Clarke bought Russian machines and imported some techs to run them. One of them says:
"I felt myself all the time in a sauna," remembers Nickolay Patrin, who now lives full-time in Sarasota.
Sounds like hard work...
...because copyrights are forever!
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
You, sir, look like the man who would emjoy the benefits of the new Stepford 9000! She's more customizable than the 7000 or 8000 series - all aspects of appearance can be modified to a wide variety of configurations. From tall and buxum to short and muscular and everything in between! With new patented No-Sass circuitry she won't ever cop an "attitude", unless you want her to. New to the Stepford 9000 series: she's compatible with your entertainment center's universal remote control!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
http://www.boycottgillette.com/
for a long time music production has been available on a massively scalable level to the independent artist.
How can an independent artist sell an album if he can't either 1. afford to license songs or 2. afford to prove in court that his own songs are in fact original? Have you read my journal entry on the topic?
Will I retire or break 10K?
"If people really love each other, then they give each other the real stone"
Now... I have never, ever used the "If you loved me you'd sleep with me|suck my dick|swallow|let me fuck your sister|whatever else" bullshit.
I've always thought that sort of attitude was eminently disrespectful to anyone with whom you could possibly have any kind of relationship what so ever. It's something only the completely immoral assholes use on mindless, pathetic simulacra. And I say "immoral", not "amoral", since the statement entails a subversion of a pretense of emotional values.
But, De Beers clearly seems to think it works. It seems to think that this is a perfectly acceptable way to communicate with their clients, in their relationship with us. So, we have that same immoral to simulacrum relationship.
It's nice to be called a "worthless cunt" to your face, isn't it folks?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Lab produced diamonds will probably have very good international and geopolitical effects....
... and it could be a good thing.
As you probably know, lots of local wars make the African continent "messy" (it's the less we can say). The control of diamond producing areas is one of the thing that explains many war situations in Africa.
So I think if diamond value is going down, control of these area willl no more be a good reason to make war
(Scuze for the bad english but I'm sure you slashdot peoples are smart enough to understand what I mean....)
DeBeers completely controls the distribution of diamonds. There are rumours of warehouses full of diamonds just hidden away, to create this artificial rarity. And have you been to a jewelry store? Diamond are everywhere. So they're not even that rare in public either, but the price is inflated quite high.
Dear Grandma,
I just can't wait for you to kick off so I can have you made into a diamond! See ya soon!
Love,
Urox
Not only did you not read the responses, but you didn't read the article. The point is... Diamonds are not as rare as deBeers lets the world think they are. And I'm not talking about the new 'fake' ones that can be created for $5.
Next time, try reading the comment rather than the first two words before your attack.
DeBeers controls the price of diamonds by controlling the rarity of them. I know they've got piles of them in their warhouses, that's how they control the price...duh.
My point, which people seem unable to grasp, is that this is not how RIAA controls the price of CDs. There is no RIAA warehouse out there with millions of U2 CDs sitting in boxes.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
When writing my post I kept thinking I was forgetting something. And that is why it didn't seem to go anywher, I forgot my point. My point was that the RIAA is way out of hand with the huge fines. Shouldn't the fines be for how much was stolen plus a SLIGHT penalty? Say... 200%? Instead of 10,725,000,000% (Assuming that each song is valued at approximately one dollar US).
The New Root Council, kickin' ass sinc
Yes, redudant but I want to to re-inforce what is being said here, these are not diamonds of industrial quality these are full sized manufactured gem quality diamonds. If you had read the article you would have seen a table full of the things, specifically replicas of rare yellow diamonds that were indistguishable from the real thing when assessed by a diamond expert (he was not amused).
The article went on to point out the potential for diamond based circuits, specifically the ability to resist heat, and the possible advance in computer speed this would permit.
Anyone who is anyone is familiar with DeBeers and diamonds, they control most of the market and have managed to fend off the influx of diamonds from Canada, Russia and other countries. Manufactured diamonds would reduce or eliminate the monopoly on diamond distribution that DeBeers uses to create an artifical shortage of diamond supplies to keep prices high.
But I've stayed away from diamonds, for the most part. Moissanite is prettier anyway. "ooh, sparkly".
Hardware, software, and blinking lights!
Just in case anyone is interested, here's a link to the patent Linares received for their vapor process.
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
"Fuck off, loser" doesn't mean they are ready and willing to accept your seed(ling).
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
That's what the article said.
They shut DeBeers up by threatening to flood the market with the headlight-sized rocks at $20 if they get shirty about it.
That might work, but it's not the best way to go about it. If they do that, de Beers will saturation bomb with the commercials and such. They might just convince women they don't want fake crap. Second, they can strong arm their distribution channels and tell them that the minute they sell a manufactured diamond, they'll never sell another real diamond. de Beers can do that, and if I were a retailer, I don't know that I'd have the guts to hitch my wagon to a startup company. Reputable sellers wouldn't sell the fakes, and fakes would therefore get a really bad name.
Therefore, I think it remains to be seen whether these guys have the ability to pull such strong-arm tactics. I think it's better for everyone in the business to try to maintain the market and divvie it up evenly.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
... about diamonds being an "investment". The next time some jeweller tries that line on you don't forget to tell him that there's a process to make purer diamonds for less money (and it's no problem to insert a little "dirt" either), and that that process will probably go mainstrem within the next 10-20 years. So he should please stop bullshitting you to sell you something at $X.000 that you can probably draw out of a bubble-gum machine in a few years time.
The only reason you need that diamond now is that your fiancee won't wait another 10 years but that doesn't mean you want to be told a load of lies.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Not sure how things have changed in the last 20 years since this article came out, but here's an interesting piece on how dimaond engagement rings are an invented tradition that only started 60 years ago. (It's comes in three parts b/c it's pretty long.)
part 1
part 2
part 3
Using market analysis similar to the canceled 'Policy Analysis Market', it should be possible to determine what the fair market value for these items acutally *is*.
Basicly, set up something that works like the stock market... 'buy' and 'sell' (this need not be literally buying and selling) shares coresponding to how much you think a CD (or a diamond, or any other overpriced item) should be. The market should give a fairly good idea of what everybody thinks these things should be worth.
It costs at least a thousand times as much to make a good movie as it does to make a good CD. But audio CD's cost nearly twice that of movie DVD's. And what you see on music store shelves represents a fraction of a percent of serious musicians. Cheap internet distribution would enable them to sell a hundred times the selection at one tenth the price. Someone will do it. Maybe in this decade.
DeBeers is an even bigger fraud than the RIAA. Diamonds (even natural ones) are not really scarce. Also, the new lab methods do not all rely on the mettalic solvents to create diamonds. One is deposited as plasma, with no extra gunk in the process. They are white diamonds, of unusual perfection.
BTW, Plastic had this a few weeks ago.
Dean G.
I saw the title and immediately thought: If you shoved the overpriced CD's up the RIAA's asses, in a week you'd get diamonds.
The party's over
I dunno if there's much of a parallel. . .we've had synth rock for quite a while now, and I don't think it's ever been cheaper than the real thing.
Jeez! Couldn't you guys have put a little hustle in it?
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
That's pretty close.
Actually, the most valuable gold specimens are nuggets, where ever they are recovered, because that is by far the rarest form of gold. Something like 99% of all gold currently mined is recovered from rock by mechanical and chemical processes (leaching, for example), and the gold is very small. Only when the final pour is made can the gold even be seen.
In contrast, many placer deposits contain pieces of gold, the larger of which are referred to as nuggets. It takes a very unique set of circumstances, geological as well as chemical, to form a nugget, and for that nugget to be released fron its parent rock and preserved for tens of millions of years. Usually, the larger the nugget, the more valuable it is, but unusual shaped nuggets and also valuable to collectors. Some pieces have sold for over a million dollars. A chunk of quartz vein with visible gold is very rare and valuable.
My friend has some pictures of Alaskan gold nuggets and gemstones at this page and other pages on there.
-cp-
21 here, and fully in agreement. Preach on, brother.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Do you hear that really loud grinding? That's Cecil Rhodes spinning in his grave.
No, wait, that's the new diamond-based cd copy protection shredding my drive. Damn...
No statement is true, not even this one.
To stave off much greater disaster? Come on, why else do we hand out condoms to high school kids? We'd really prefer that they not go around spreading disease and farting out jam-faced sprogs, but we'll do our best to impede their progress nonetheless.
Likewise, we'd really prefer that our significant others don't betray us and steal everything we have, leaving us to sell our furniture and, finally, our bodies just to pay for dialup to read slashdot, but we'll do our best to make that possibility a little less likely.
Point is, the consequences of not having a pre-nup or condoms are grave enough to justify the cynicism.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I mean someone has got to mow that lawn.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I'm sick of hearing of RIAA, the link to the Wired story of creating artificial diamonds was far more interesting.
You fucking idiot!!!
That is, one of the "manufactured" diamonds, no a crap RIAA CD. I would be very interested in hearing how one goes about acquiring a manufactured diamond, as well as the purchase price comparison.
Diamonds: she'll pretty much have to.
Look at their Asha stone. My wife and I got one of those for our engagement, and the jewlers who put together the ring said that they were fooled from two feet away. And it's harder than anything else non-diamond.
Maybe someday we'll replace it with an actual synthetic diamond!
dinner: it's what's for beer
the people who run De Beers never enter the USA because they will be arrested for running an illegal cartel. Europe has a few De Beers shops now (not sure why we think they are legal). I think it was a judgement 10 or 20 years ago that the diamond cartel was illegal, dont remember the exact details, but it comes up quite often, becasue it is difficult to run a large multinational without ever going to the USA
With the advent of synth diamonds, it could be that the appeal of the rogue african militia's and paramilitary orginazationns would be out of thier gun and weapon money. For without thier precious "RARE" stones to sell then we sould very well see the atrocities of African nations subside a bit. No need for extra cost to verify diamonds, and no more blood. At least thats' what we can hope for. I do wonder what new advertisement campaign Debeers will come out with... "If the love is for real the the Diamonds will be"?!? nmaybe?
-For it is the very essence of imperialism to turn information systems into wild, bloodthirsty animals-
Gee, thanks. Just three weeks after I drop four large on an engagement ring. Rattin' frattin' expensive traditions.
At least she said "Yes"...
I only like 2D platformers and DDR.
I don't own any D&D books, just Star Wars 2nd and World of Darkness.
I only have two computers, and one of them isn't working because I haven't decided between Linux and BSD yet.
I'd rather use emacs than vi.
The only programming languages I can code in are C and Fortran.
We're from different worlds. And...and...I don't deserve you.
No...don't look back. Promise me you'll never look back.
(I did not expect marriage proposals, even in jest...though, in retrospect, I should have.)
-Carolyn
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
The point it, however, that the expensiveness of diamonds is a sham. People should be spending their money on truly rare gems.
That said, it is of course the thought and the gesture that count when were talking about rings, not the price your friend down the road can get it in three years time.
But the history of DeBeers and its marketing makes for interesting reading: the 'A diamond is forever', and 'diamonds are a girls best friend' slogans, together with the idea that diamonds should be cherished as hierlooms far more than other things are due to clever marketing by DeBeers. (The latter thing with hierlooms is a clever way to get second hand diamonds off the market!)
John_Chalisque
Indeed. Also, did you see the part where they (de Beers) were using a specific FTIR peak to discern the fakies from the mined diamonds? I think they're going off of impurities in the real diamond to tell the difference. I think the next round of camouflage for the manufacturers is going to be incorporating specific, intentional chemical (not structural) flaws to make it tougher to tell the mined from made diamonds.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Hmmm... its a silly thought, but a nasty side effect of America's forced separation of church and state is that consumerism is the new mass religion.
John_Chalisque
...about how De Beers essentially invented the global diamond market by both controlling the supply and creating the demand:
Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?
$5 says the parent was posted by a virgin.
Gem quality artificial diamons of significant size don't yet exist (at least not colorless although one company claims to have them coming out this fall), they will NOT be $5, but rather about 2/3rds the cost of the natural ones. And beyond that DeBeers has a flourescense test that will detect artificial diamonds. The real battle will be in convincing Jane Q Public that her man isn't being a cheapskate looser if he gets her an artificial stone for her ring. I have convinced my wife that the replacements to the 1/2 carrat earings that she lost will be 1 carrat synthetics with a gas deposited diamond coating, they are as pretty in the light as real diamons and cost about 1/4th what the smaller "real" stones cost me =) Of course not every woman is so ameniable as the misses.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
P2P gives up the control the RIAA has now.
The RIAA can keep standards low now (Spears, Backstreet and so on) but filesharing threatens that.
If musicians can make a living wihtout the RIAA, then they lose the fat contracts they have.
It's all about power and control. Lose that and their profit margins get shot to Hell. They'll have to WORK and offer DECENT Contracts to artists.
Rememeber, even with the drop in his market share, Prince makes more money now than he did at the peak of his popularity.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Menta's article is a travesty. The Wired article reports that the cost per carat for Appollo is $5.00, not that either diamond-maker will sell their diamonds for $5.00.
Menta also tries to argue that CDs are scarce. Last I checked, I could buy CDs at WalMart, Target, the grocery store, music stores, and dozens (if not hundreds) of online stores. CDs are not scarce. Music is not scarce either, and never has been. For people who really love music, they can find it all around them, i.e., in coffee shops, bars, churches, symphonies, independent artists who distribute online, etc. The only thing scarce in the recording industry is talent.
And for the last time, exchanging copyright protected material (like an entire album), without the author's permission, with hundreds (or thousands) of people through a P2P service is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is not exactly the same thing as theft, but it is a violation of federal law, and some kinds of infringement carry criminal penalties.
From the article: Congress is told by the Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) that file trading is theft. . . . If the existing record industry cannot adjust, someone new will come in to take their place and - like makers of $5.00 diamonds - will profit handily not by intentionally restricting sales, but through volume.
It's a pretty good analogy, if we're not talking about non-infringing goods. The $5 diamonds that are set to rock the diamond cartel are not the diamond cartel's diamonds. Similarly, the $0.25 songs that will really rock the music cartel are not the cartel's songs.
As indie bands cut more of their own tracks without any record cartel help and distribute them via P2P, these bands will challenge the cartel with good, cheap music. What technology is doing to music is to trivialize the means of production and distribution of music. In the brave new market, selling music will be all about quality and buzz.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
I don't think the problem is making file-sharing profitable. The problem is finding a way to make it as profitable as selling CDs. I'm sure file-sharing (Apple) already turns a profit. But I bet that it doesn't even come close to the return from CDs.
And that's the major problem. The way CDs are now priced (and given the cheap raw materials required as well as cheap burning process) I can't see how file-sharing can ever compete.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Well they *can* always make more for cheaper than what anyone else could make them.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
The other guys have already made the point that you are mixing up the two techniques.
Id just like to add that even if you are a solid state chemist, there is only one company in the world that has created these flawless lab diamonds (the guy from Wired had them tested) - and the only people who can tell you how do it work for that company, so you are unlikely to get an answer on how they got the metastable phase fixed.
The closest answer I can give you (and it is from the Wired article if youd care to read it) is:
To grow single-crystal diamond using chemical vapor deposition, you must first divine the exact combination of temperature, gas composition, and pressure - a "sweet spot" that results in the formation of a single crystal. Otherwise, innumerable small diamond crystals will rain down. Hitting on the single-crystal sweet spot is like locating a single grain of sand on the beach. There's only one combination among millions. In 1996, Linares found it.
If you want to know more about it then realise that (again, direct quote from Wired):
This June, he finally received a US patent for the process, which already is producing flawless stones.
So the information you require should be found in the US patent office.
Wait a minute, I always thought Dabeers made those little plastic ball contained rings and jewelery that you can get in the little machines at safeway.
RIAA should consider investing in CDR manufacturing and distribution, no wait... then CDR's will cost 20 bucks each and the artist will still starve.
Go into a jewelery store and check out rubies these days. You'll notice some bright clear pretty ones and a some dark kinda ugly ones. The pretty ones are lab manufactured and half the price. The mined ones still sell well enough to be in the store though.
I fully expect a reply on the high quality of the natural ones, and I bet I'll learn something.
Don't you think that if you cut Congress's pay, then Congresspeople will be MORE succeptible to having their votes "subsidized"? For that matter, same with campaign contributions. I'm not suggesting that the current situation is great, nor am I suggesting that Congress is underpaid, but I do think that something other than pay cuts, or in addition to pay cuts needs to be done to address the real problem.
Yet another reason to destroy the diamond monopoly ASAP.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I refuse to eat food, because the agricultural subsidies that prop up the US food market keep the rest of the world in abject poverty.
paintball
Looks like Kobe Bryant was screwed again on the $4 megabuck rock he bought his wife. Probably didn't even feel as good as the one he got in Colorado. Anyone want to send him these articles?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I agree with you, if a girl is that shallow dump her, you'll be happier in the long run.
Besides, this whole diamond scam was made up fairly recently. In my great grandmothers day an engagment ring didn't have to be a diamond at all.
When I got married my husband gave me a Ducati Monster instead of a diamond ring. That's a gift we can both enjoy!
Technically, the RIAA is a "cartel", not a monopoly. I beleive both are illegal under US law.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Women who will associate with men who make Star Trek analogies will always be scarce. You're fine.
paintball
This is a free online book by Edward Jay Epstein that details the DeBeers empire from the inside. If you've got some free time, check it out... it's well written and really interesting.
The Diamond Invention
Like P2P file sharing?
Honestly, I don't think the RIAA cares that people copy their songs. They care that people are learning to get their music without going to a music store. Once the music store is no longer the chief means of distribution, artists don't need record companies.
paintball
how long 'till we get diamond heat sinks to go with the new dispersed carbon black paste for the ultimate in cooling?
...the $5 damonds are legally created and can be distributed without fear of legal retribution from DeBeers. The P2P networks on the other hand are illegal channels of distribution unless otherwise authorized by the copyright holder. Also, this may or may not be an RIAA member company, as I can legally create and find distribution channels for my music (such as small club gigs) and still sue people distributing the music through P2P networks. As has been siad hundreds of thousands of times before from the GPL Nazis, "don't like the terms of the license, don't use it." Well, if you don't like the terms of copyright, don't partake of the works created and protected through copyright. It really is as simple as that.
Both companies are run by JEWS. It seems that almost every time something goes wrong in the world, greedy JEWS are at the root of the problem.
Separation of which church from the State? People always forget that implied aspect.
Consumerism isn't a replacement for a religion. It's just one of the thousands of different flavors.
Seriously, its hard to take adulthood seriously when people won't get married without a diamond.
Wow, it isn't like all us Slashdot posters are judgemental, or anything... As a GIRL who is a GEEK and relatively socially conscious, but also a DIAMOND owner, I guess I really represent the minority here (-: Let's see here: 1) Some smart women like diamonds. I swear. In fact, I know quite a few of them personally. 2) If you are really planning to meet girls based on their gem preferences, you are a LOSER. 3) Canadian diamonds are a very cool alternative - they come with a lasered serial number and logo on the girdle of the diamond - perfect for us tech-geek girls 4) I personally had no desire to have a diamond when we first started ring shopping, but it was my husband-to-be who felt it was a good idea - so don't give me all that bullshit that the guys can see through the marketing stuff, while the girls dreamily suck it all in. 5) I would take an artificial diamond over a real one in a second - a symbol of technological acheivement and science - that sparkles? It's perfect!
don't mess with those geekgrrls
From the WiReD article, page 3:
So is it still a symbol of love if it paid for the deaths of thousands, was mined by slaves, and serves to keep oppresive militants in power? Often times love endures by good principles. If you have none, love probably isn't going to work out for you anyway.
As for myself, I would never buy a diamond for my love in today's diamond industry. I would however, offer her a synthetic. Even if she wasn't a geek chick, that should be understandable. "Would we want our kids slaving away in a diamond mine?" Anyone with half a rational mind should be able to realize why real diamonds are bad.
Of course, there's nothing rational about people liking diamonds. It's stupid really. "Ooh! Shiny!" People need to move beyond such primative desires.
Join Tor today!
Well, it seems the obvious solution is for both DeBeers and the RIAA to team together. I can see it now:
Diamond-coated CDs! ...Hmm... or how about:
"for the music you really love!"
"A Diamond CD lasts forever!"
{ - Generic Guy - }
If one carat stones will be going for $5 bucks, imagine the size of engagement ring I'd be able to get my girlfriend for two months' salary. It won't be just a ring, it'll be more like an engagement suit with matching purse and shoes.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
Can do. The Stepford 9000 Maid May unit can replace well over 1024 remote control units. She's available in bith full-sized and 11.5-inch height formats. She includes a charger and a USB cable for software updates.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
This reminds me of when aluminium production was not an industry yet. In one of those world exhibitions, Queen Victoria (?) was presented a costly set of aluminium (better than gold or silver) tableware.
Or when the Spaniards would go mad about the yellow but weak metal used for decoration by the Indians.
Or when the Dutch pirates captured Spanish ships to find that they were loaded with sheep shit (actually, cocoa grains, mmm, chocolate).
Tulipomania, all around.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
you insensitive clod!
I've got no points and this deserves moderation!
+1 Damn Straight!
immaculate conception?
I wonder if fossil fuels can be created with a similar process.. That would be a touch more useful for our immediate needs...
If for no other reason, just to prove to the world that there actually are girls on slashdot.
The first company to create artificial diamonds was not General Electric, but the Swedish company ASEA, now ABB. The Diamond Makers
I've always been of the opinion that the best dowry would be a concubine. That way, a virginal bride is virtually assured!
Are used Diamonds damaged? Seems like they're a way better deal if that's all they can be sold for....
I can't tell the difference between a fake diamond and a real diamond, so, if they are both pure carbon crystals, why should I pay more for the real one?
I like "fake" emeralds better than "real" ones. The fake ones (chemically the same) have no imperfections!
If I made a gold coin (with real gold) that looked just like an "old" one, what's the difference?
Ideas are worth money, not stuff. He he, and some people think information wants to be free.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Yah know what goes good with DaBeers....
DaPretzels....
Yup Lame
For non-engagement ring type jewelry, many women I've been with have asked me to buy them the fake stuff, as long as it looks real from a distance. Asside from the fact that diamonds are expensive, women like them because they are pretty and sparkly. Most women are happy to accept the fake stuff, so long as you don't try and pass it off as real and as long as you don't get the fake stuff for significant occasions.
That being said, I don't know about industrial diamonds, but when it comes to jewelry, DeBeers need not worry about its long term survival.
Fact: For any jewelry that is meant for a significant occasion, no woman would take a $100 synthetic diamond the size of a golf ball over a 1/2 carrat natural diamond that cost $10,000. If she ever found out that the golf ball sized diamond you bought her is synthetic, its marriage / engagement / game over.
If the synthetics are truely indistinguishable from the real thing, you can risk it, and a lot of guys would risk it, but there's a lot who won't, too.
- So what happens if someone mining diamonds were to challenge de Beers? de Beers would make sure that their network of retailers don't do business with that producer. They'd also release some of their capacity to temporarily drop prices. That would put that producer out of business.
It's already been done, in Australia. http://www.gem.org.au/gallery/diamond.htmWhen a diamond-bearing kimberlite pipe was discovered in Australia, DeBeers sneered. The stones were what was deemed an "unattractive muddy brown." Undeterred, the owners of the mine bought equipment, hired workers, and designed a marketing campaign for the diamonds. Peoperly cut and polished, they are anything but "muddy" or "unattractive."
The cognac colors range from the warm red-brown of good hot tea, to almost the hue of dark chocolate. They exhibit strong secondary body colors as well, such as orange and gold. The same is true for the lighter "champagne" diamonds, with the addition of secondary colors such as pink and peach. They have incredible sparkle, and don't carry the outrageous price tag of DeBeers' homogenized offerings. (And yes, there's one on my finger, so I know of what I write.)
Finally, though, the Aussies got the last laugh. Argyle started producing natural pink, purple, and even fantastically rare red diamonds, as well as a number of greens and blues. Of course, that got DeBeers' attention, and the cartel approached Ashton Mining with a partnership offer -- only to be told "thanks, but no thanks. We can manage by ourselves." Since then, auctions of rough and finished pink diamonds have brought in millions, with not a dime going into DeBeers' pockets.
Revenge may be a dish best served cold, but it's far sweeter when it's almost entirely accidental.
Doing my level best to piss off the religious right wing...
My point is that knocking off a jewelry store is a closer analogy to downloading copyright songs than manufacturing diamonds. Yes theft is not the same as copyright infringement, but both serve to lower the value of the owner's assets, so copyright infringement can be even more harmful than theft. By endorsing copyright infringement, he might as well tell people to steal diamonds, if he's going to use that analogy.
Vote for Pedro
I have no problem with people downloading legal music, and its effect on the RIAA. The author, however, believes people have the right to copy music to avoid paying for cds, and likens it to buying a man-made diamond instead of a deBeers diamond. My point is that if he wants a better analogy, he should tell people to knock off jewelry stores if they think diamonds are unfairly priced.
Vote for Pedro
I predict in less than 5 years this technology will be in India, Korea and communist China. Combine this will a good marketing campaign and its game over. Imagine the following advertisement: Two girls are having lunch when one asks the other "May I see your ring?" The second one says "Here it is. Joe got me a 1.5 carrot diamond ring with a certificate of authenticity." The other girl looks shocked and says "So Joe spent 2 months salary on a rock and a piece of paper??!! For the same amount of money, Dave got me this 5 carrot flawless ring AND a weeklong cruise. Those memories will last us forever."
to get heat then pump water down it and send the resultant steam to a generator. Once we figure out a cheap way to dig deep holes, energy will no longer be an issue.
This is Slashdot. Diamonds hold huge potential as a superior semiconductor material compared to silicon. The technology is now here to make mass quantities of them for cheap. And all anyone here can talk about is its relevance as a transparent shiny stone?
Here's some info on its recent development as a semiconductor. Time for the U.S. to get on the ball. It won't take much for another country to surpass us in the technology race.
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
The industrial diamonds you're thinking of aren't relevant to the new generation of lab-grown $5 diamonds, which can only be distinguished from natural diamonds using expensive and specialized lab equipment. IIRC, the people experimenting with this are already working on making this harder.
The new generation of diamonds will be indistinguishable from natural diamonds to the naked eye, meaning that a diamond engagement ring will look just as good to the recipient either way.
This is something for deBeers to worry about.
Tech Public Policy stuff
For De Beers, the real crash in their markets will begin when the patented processes for making cultured diamonds expire. Then EVERYONE will be able to make diamonds. Just as the clock is ticking on Viagra for Pfizer, the same time limits are on these and all patents. In 20 years time expect to be able to buy a machine to make your OWN diamonds - already the article explains that the existing machines cost just over $50,000. In 20 years time diamonds will be mass-produced and have little value, and that is the reality facing De Beers.
You haven't shopped properly. Get an ambitious one instead of a trophy. 2 incomes and shared house works for me. Instead of driving 10 year old beaters, I'm driving a 1 year old car and purchasing a home. I couldn't do it alone. My wife is working on her masters. Not only does she have brains, but she looks good too. Not all women are a money pit.
I proposed with her birthstone, not a diamond. I told her she could keep it even if she turned me down. That went a long way as not being percieved as a cheapscape.
The truth shall set you free!
Anybody noticed that there seem to be a number of classical music labels out there producing good products at a third to half the price of a typical pop cd. And in this case they're having to reimburse highly skilled professional musicians, sometimes an entire orchestra, as opposed to mediocre pop artists. If they're able to turn a profit surely mainstream labels can lower their prices too.
The RIAA represents less than 10 percent of the artists and controls 90 percent of the market. mp3s are inferior copies of the original and, just as a Reader's Digest condensed book is not comparable to the original, should not be considered as a copy of a CD. It simply is not.
When you can download true 16 bit 44.1kHz CD quality files, then maybe things will be different. But you simply cannot download a complete album. If you're lucky, you get about 10 percent of the information.
How many times must people be reminded of this before they start to realize the truth -- you CANNOT download an entire CD over the Internet, unless you're downloading 30-50 MB songs. A 4 MB mp3 is not a CD track. Why is everyone trying to pretend like they are?
The majority of the independent artists in the world are trying desperately to get our music heard by any means necessary and not only give you permission to download our material, but would love you forever just for giving us a listen.
It is ridiculous that the RIAA is as successful as they are in propagating the idea that downloading is theft.
If the big boys are so worried about people listening to their music, maybe they should just stop recording it. True artists create because they are compelled to do so by their inner voice. If we make money, that's great. But a failure to reap a profit does not silence our voice.
We write music for others to hear it, not to protect it like a hoarded treasure.
Why have the major artists been paying the radio to play their songs for years? To get people to listen to their music so that, hopefully, the consumers will be inclined to buy a copy. Now that free promotion is available, suddenly they don't want anyone to hear it.
They aren't artists if they have taken that approach. I'm a recording artist and I do it because I have no choice. It's my art and I must produce music. Sure, it would be nice to be rich and famous, but that is not why I make music. I do it to express the emotions and feelings which cannot be released in any other manner.
If artists want to protect their "intellectual property" then they should leave it locked up in their head. And if the overwhelming reason for creating music is to make money instead of fans, well, we're better off without them anyway.
The biggest issue is that the overwhelming minority completely controls the market, or at least they did until P2P came along. All of the fight is because they want control back.
If they stop P2P and criminalize the Internet, then the only way for the artists to reach the consumer is through the record labels. Again.
The copyright laws are designed to "promote the useful arts and sciences" and offer a limited monopoly to the "authors and creators." It says nothing about the greed merchants who have wrested control of copyrights from the authors and creators.
The copyright laws were NOT designed to protect the publishers. That's who the "intellectual property owners" are, not the authors, who have been getting financially raped since the dawn of the recording industry.
Radio is dead. The Internet is the last available promotional opportunity for independent artists and people are blindly using the copyright "infringement" propaganda to try and take it away from us.
Visit www.fairforshare.com, www.dmusic.com, www.garageband.com, www.vitaminic.com and www.iuma.com and you'll find that there are tens of thousands of us willing to let everyone in the world listen for free. We'll also sell you real CDs, not inferior mp3 copies.
The RIAA only represents a small fraction of the recording industry and it is not necessarily the best portion, simply the best financed. The talent is not as scarce as you may think.
But a realistic look at the industry and the copyright laws seems to be miniscule.
Fortunately, this all begins to change today.
The main reason these 2 companies are going for the diamond market is to raise funds for their main target CPU's. The wired article mentions that a diamond based processor would be able to withstand temperatures that would liquify a silicon based processor.
I, for one, welcome our new diamond producing masters.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere