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The Surprising Benefits of Being Unemployed
SimuAndy writes "David Dvorkin, a programmer and writer of some repute, has published an essay on The Surprising Benefits of Being Unemployed. Well worth the reading time as a small break in a busy day."
Becoming a Slashdot Addict
I have time to become intimately familiar with all of the Slashdot memes like FP!, GNAA, In Soviet Russia, and CowboyNeal. I know all of the rules for them and when they're just being faked by copy-cats. Sure, sure, I can stop any time.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
The latest findings of the Cato Institute?
Yep, according to my dad, one of the best books hes ever read... well worth the read
Well worth the reading time as a small break in a busy day
;)
He has no job, way to rub it in, you inconsiderate clod!
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This man is my idol, and anyone who has ever been unemployed should appreciate "staring at the wall for an hour after waking 'early' up at 10:17, drinking a pot of coffay." I donated a few bucks to help his cause, and you should too, after all, he is unemployed :)
I saw an Indian Java developer climbing out of your wife's bedroom while you were fishing.
But now I have less stress, met a girlfriend online and I am going back to school.
I feel I am working towards myself and not a greedy souless corporation.
People work to hard today. I think the divorce rate might have something to do with people doing the work of 2-3 in order for bigcorp to boast its stock price for productivity increases.
I love programming and want to do it. However I do not want to work more then 55 hours a week. I also want to learn and better myself. Its hard with such high demands. Also young college kids are willing to work 80 hrs a week so if you don't then they steal your job!??
In other words its now the new norm to be underpaid and overworked where 40 hr work weeks are considered "not meeting expectations".
http://saveie6.com/
more time for pr0n. Because there's never enough time for pr0n...
Overlords.
:)
Where did masters come from?
hey!
Time to read up on any obscure or interesting subject that sprang to mind.
I think I advanced my self-education more in the last few months than I had in years previously. I know a whole lot more about our legal and political systems, can tell you all sorts of fun things about Wicca and Buddhism, know more about more obscure European bands than I care to name, and I'm even getting closer to really understanding why the Middle East is the way it is.
But things are looking up. Getting out of the cube farms seem to have freed my mind. I've been taking on odd freelance jobs. I've just gotten hired by a tutoring company which'll let me more or less make my own hours. Been doing some freelance writing. I'm not out of the woods yet, but if things keep going the way they are, I may be able to build up enough contacts and experience to make a good enough living without ever stepping foot in an office, and 3/4 of it from home.
I feel oddly like the Campbellian hero having passed through the Cave. (Week of May 15th: Read "Hero of a Thousand Faces")
So, just to chime in with the message of this article, if you're unemployed, take heart. Look at it as an opportunity. If you've got the money to ride on for a bit, DON'T spend all your time looking for yet another cube. Use the time to boost your knowledge or skills.
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
Beware, Goatse.
I try to convince myself I've gotten out of the rat race of Upward Mobility, and it's morally superior to have Downward Nobility. But I just want a fucken job. I helped build this industry in the early 1970s, now I'm supposed to be in the peak earning years of my career, but I'm locked out due to the bad economy. It sucks. There is nothing good about being unemployed.
I think that many more people would benefit from these joyous unemployment moments. So don't hesitate, quit today. That way those of us who are stuck day in and day out applying to hundreds of jobs with the hope they we get so much as one interview.
Unemployment is not fun no matter what a book or an article may say. Myself, and the other 10 dozen Slashdoter's need jobs.
Popcorn is actually an ideal foodstuff if you're on a very tight budget. It's SO cheap!
I bought myself a popcorn making machine for $20. Basically it's a big "hot air generating machine". You throw your popcorn kernels in, they get heated up and blown around for five minutes, then they all pop and out tumbles the popcorn.
You can buy a bag with two lbs of kernels for about a dollar. Lasts me about 15 gigantic bowls of popcorn. Keeps your regular too. High in fibre.
So you pay about 7 cents a bowl, which is a good stomach filler in the evening, and a cent or two for the electricity needed. Popcorn is a bargain, particularly if you like it plain, or with some salt thrown over it (as I do). Just make it YOURSELF.
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Surely I'm not the only one who finds a dark amusement in seeing both "The benefits of being unemployed" and "Where do I find an honest headhunter?" showing up simultaneously on the Slashdot front page.
"Freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more."
Actually, it's harder to get a job when your unemployed then it is when you are employeed. Because, when your unemployeed, any future employer will want to know why and how long you have been without work. But, if you already have a job, then you have a much better reputation for current skill status and thus a better chance of swiching over to a new company.
Life is not for the lazy.
What about,
- working on that interesting open-source software project. Good for the resume as well
- do some volunteering (hey - just go to the park and pick up garbage for an hour or two, till the unionized city employees chase you off)
- get in shape (running is cheap, and so are push-ups)
- eat better; too broke to eat out, so buy lots of veggies; kick the coffee and beer habit (too expensive)
- go to the library and get out all the "classics" (whatever your definition of a classic might be) and read them. No essay at the end required, unless you really want to.
Time like that should be used in a positive way. The silver lining around the dark cloud. And when you go for interviews, let them know what you've been doing - makes you look like a well rounded person who knows how to organize his/her time.
The article runs the gamut, from the mildly amusing:
Some of those benefits are obvious, and I could have anticipated them even before a supervisor tapped me on the shoulder and said he needed to talk to me about something. ("Do you have a minute?" he asked. What would have happened if I'd said no, that I was too busy?)
To the not at all funny but trying really hard (Snuffy Smith! Egads):
There was a character in the Snuffy Smith cartoon strip of many years ago who retired but would still get up at the crack of dawn and go down to the mill every morning just so he could thumb his nose at the place as the get-to-work whistle blew.
It does include a few good, creative ideas useful even for the gainfully emplyed:
Back in the glorious paycheck days, I used to think about telling [telemarketers and salespersons] I'd just lost my job. Actually, sometimes I really did tell them that, because I'm a cowardly kinda guy and it's easier to fib than to be firm. Now I don't have to fib. When I tell them I'm unemployed, they hang up or back away quickly, terrified of infection by the job-loss virus.
As well as a few really stupid comment that make me wonder about this guy's sense of self:
My Beard It's still growing! Well, of course it is, you say. Let me explain that, on an emotional, irrational level, I still feel relieved every morning when I realize that I still need to shave. It's still growing! Despite the way I frequently feel, I haven't really been unmanned.
But, it also has quite a bit of offtopic, annoying, and really rather insulting partisan political nonsense:
These [fake-job advertising scammers] are rotten enough to be members of George W. Bush's cabinet. Encountering them has taught me something about the depths of human nature.
But perhaps the greatest benefit of being unemployed is this. I now feel absolutely free to despise George W. Bush. Oh, of course I despised him before I lost my job. But now I know I'm not alone.
And it closes with a really stupid anti-Bush link. Sigh. Bring a salt shaker if you're going to read it all.
everything in moderation
the other day I caught myself telling a fellow slacker "you are trolling the unemployment line you should be mod'ed down" of course I got a blank empty void look on his face. also, I really ought to move out of my mom's house soon.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
No, the CATO institute would probably have a paper on the moral duty of the unemployed to increase downward pressure on wages and how the recently homeless have merely chosen to realize capital gains by selling their houses to pay for food. The Heritage Foundation would no doubt follow up with a paper on how eliminating the capital gains tax would then be in the best interest of the future homeless population. It's the compassionately conservative thing to do.
The boss told me that if I'm late for work again tomorrow, I shouldn't bother turning up on Monday.
Woohoo! Four day weekend!!
"Smoking helps you lose weight - one lung at a time" -- A. E. Neumann
For all the perks of being unemployed without the guilt, frustration and lack of income that it brings with it...Do a PhD! ......back to the grind, another day of back-breaking research ahead...ooops...dont feel like working, i think ill go home and sleep instead....better tell the boss...wait...there is no boss...hehehe....my paper is not due till next month, ill just do it the night before.
After all, they're smart enough to realize that articles about being unemployed are likely to be of great interest to a large proportion of those people spending the most time reading Slashdot.
Way to go after your core readership guys !
why would anyone bother... oh wait, "Posted by michael". Nevermind.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
</lie>
__________
[Big Brick Wall]
There is actually an entire movement of people that have discovered this. Look for "simple living" on Google. "The Simple Living Guide" by Luhrs is pretty nice reading, too.
Even if you don't want to adopt frugality and simple living right now, just knowing that you could can make you worry a lot less about the future.
No, the people who are unemployed and read slashdot all day long are just plain envious of the people who are employed and read slashdot all day long.
http://www.oddtodd.com/cartoons.html
Watch a day in a life (Laid off Land)
I nearly laughed myself sick! This was acutually made by a laid off dot bomber.
(It is worth the wait, and reminded me that flash is useful for more than just annoying ads)
My rights don't need management.
Most of his "benefits" seem to have been writing with a smirk. One friend of mine who has been unemployed for about 9 months has been catching all hell from his wife. However, even she has to admit that his being unemployed and his consequent stays at home with their 2-y old son has made them much closer. For instance, before the son never ran to his father for comfort (only ever his mother), now he does. I think my friend has become a much better father largely because he is unemployed. (Of course, that doesn't stop him from wanting to leave the kid alone while he's sleeping so he can go checking out the satellite dish store down the street, because he thinks the baby monitor will reach halfway to the store, but don't tell his wife).
Sheesh... a few of flashes of insight in there, but it's mostly bitter, sarcastic, angst-ridden despair... quite depressing read, actually.
Notice how he blames it on everyone else, as if some puppetmaster controls his destiny? (evil corporations, GW Bush, supervisors and managers). Sheesh, guy... I hate to sound like your dad, but that's life. Lots of people have been screwed out of jobs before, and lots of peolpe have had jobs that frankly sucked, but there's always work out there if you are willing to swallow some pride, and make some sacrifices. Go back to school for god's sake.
I wish I hadn't read that depressing little piece... I'd say it was a lot higher on the despair scale than the humor scale.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Or not so busy.
{sigh}
Imagine a beowulf cluster of unemployed petrified naked Natalie Portmans! I've done the Slashdot Gods proud.
...is at what point he gives up his monthly internet bill.
I've been looking at my monthly budget for ways to save a few bucks and dsl is costing a lot, but I feel I can't let go of it.
damn, this guy is OBSSESSED! Check out the link at the bottom of the article page. I can totally agree with people wondering about the policies of the president, and even not liking him as a person, but insulting someone's daughters and his family is going a wee bit far... hard to agree with his "I'm a nice guy" comment after reading his list...
Nothing tech related, just one person's view on being unemployeed. Are us Nerds generally that unemployeed?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Didn't have the money to fix a 25-year-old furnace shaking itself apart with a horrible delayed ignition problem (Kaboom!). Did later sell the condo at a nice profit.
The condo had large single-pane windows that always drew comments, but did nothing for insulation. The lowest temperatures at the first floor thermostat hit low 50's (Thankfully there was a heated space below that did some good). It actually became bearable although I wouldn't want to do it again. Wore a hat, couple of long john tops, couple of t-shirts, sweat top. 2 long-john bottoms and sweat bottoms. Would sit in a chair or at my computer with a blanket (was still paying for DSL till the end!!). The worse part was my hands and face. With my nose being the worse. Should have got one of those face mask things. Sleeping was fine. Showering was avoided at all costs. Going to the bathroom also involved the shock of cold as you had to get all those layers positioned or off.
I had very few pipes and they all ran through a heated space to me. Your pipes may break before you do. If you do the no heat thing make sure you insulate pipes. Take a small room and make it your heat space. Crank up the TV and computer and confine you activities to that area. Your own body heat can raise the ambient. You need all the help you can get.
He's missing one of the biggest bonuses... unemployment pay:
Your state pays you to sit at home and make a half-hearted effort for looking for a job, even though you were already really trying anyway. Nice little bonus that reminds you the reason you lost your job in the eyes of the state was not your fault.
His comments sound very close to my recent experiences in starting up my own business. You would be amazed at how much time you can spend comparing laundry detergent prices.
SimuAndy writes "David Dvorkin, a programmer and writer of some repute, has published an essay on The Surprising Benefits of Being Unemployed. Well worth the reading time as a small break in a busy day."
Oh, sure... go ahead and rub it in, Mr. Busy Day!
Or work in IT.
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
I like what he says about his expectations about being loyal to the company you work for. Most of us, at least deep down, expect that those days we come in sick or work a 20 hour day will show loyality to our employer that will be repaid with loyality right back. Then wouldn't fire you.. you're as good as best buds afterall. You're in it together.
Ha ha ha! What shock when you're fired or laid off. Does it matter how much you sacrificed for your employer? Nope, not a damn bit. All those pep talks about being in it together.. they're complete bullshit. You may as well have gone home on time every day instead of missing out on quality time. Of course now there is no way I'm going to believe any employer when then make promises and ask for loyality and a little extra effort. Two words.. blow me. I'm not going to be gungho to finish projects ahead of schedule anymore.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Except that I wasn't exactly laid off, I became disabled. About seven years ago. Unlike the writer here, though, I learned a whole lot more. Useful stuff, like how to make flavored noodles, with just a package of ramen noodles and hot tap water from any public washroom, or how to make twenty dollars last five months plus, or what are the best bridges under which to sleep. Thankfully, Social Insecurity did come through, after a year or two, so at least I'm no longer on the street.
I wish him luck. Being unemployed ain't really fun, but if he becomes homeless, he'll be able to look back at this period with longing - at least he has a safe place to sleep, for the moment.
Lemon curry?
I recently had quit a job at a large fortune 500 company developing systems software for a shaky startup. I figured, I'm young, so why not give a less structured job a try where the fruits of my labor would come back and benefit me. Well, long story short, this particular startup had some issues; there wasn't a decent chemistry, and the management was somewhat capricious, fickle, inexperienced, and unaware of just what was involved in having a legitimate, organized business. (In fact, I think unemployment caused me to realize the importance of great management.) So, with legal dilemmas and financial dilemmas at hand, I decided maybe I made a mistake joining this particular venture. So, I ended up unemployed. I stopped going out because of a lack of health insurance, and COBRA didn't really cut it, because the insurance premiums were ridiculously high.
... unemployment taught me to have more respect for having *a* job. I just am wondering how long it will be before the pendulum swings from "job is good" to "fuck it, maybe I need the fear of unemployment or business failure to drive me into a state of action again."
I ended up finding another job, but I went through everything the man who wrote the featured article went through. I was dating a girl at one point; when she knew before that I had been making money, things were fine. However, as soon as she found out that I was in trouble and that I needed employment, suddenly I became a lot less attractive and we went our separate ways. (She's now dating another guy with a nicer car and presumably more money in the bank.) Everyone kept insisting that my failures were somehow my fault. Perhaps they were, but I like to think that in the grand scheme of things, this little experience of unemployment was to teach me a lesson about the value of a job.
In college, you'll hear a lot of talk about how engineering is worthless because it only pays some petty 5 figure salary. People like to talk about how you should start a business, and how real losers become engineers. Increasingly, there's a trend for good American engineers to try and get their MBA or JD. All in all, I find the situation really disappointing and hard to cope with. I got into engineering thinking that I would be able to build cool things and be creative. Instead, I found insane market deadlines, invasive work spaces, no offices, ridiculous cubicles, no room for creativity. But, one thing is for sure,
Anyway, I wish the best of luck to anyone else out there in the same situation.
[o]_O
Popcorn is great, but nothing beats Ramen Noodle. You can get like 6 for a dollar. That's like 2 or 3 days worth of meals! That's why it's the food of choice for college students (and it probably works well for the unemployed, too). Plus, unlike popcorn, it has some nutritional value. One bowl offers you 190 calories. Best of all, no additional hardware is necessary. They can be boiled, microwaved, or eaten raw (i've known people to do this). Ramen Noodle Soup rules!
How about sign up for unemployment and look for a job.
After all, if you put money into it, you're entitled to your 6 months, you self righetous bastard.
He is most certainly correct about those to subjects. When I was unemployed, I took the time to read Body for Life and I actually put it's teachings to use. I went from 210lbs to 185 and built some great abs and biceps.
;)
Now I'm employed again, weight 205, and can have no more time for weightlifting.
Unemployement, it does a body good
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
This guy can't keep enough food in the fridge and is contemplating living through the winter with no heat (unless he's waaaay down south) and he can still pay his hosting fees and domain renewals? Talk about mixed up priorities....
...that it takes a person having to lose their job and not be able to afford to stuff their fat face for them to lose weight. Sounds like this guy has no will power. He mentions working out, and says he has all the time in the world but then says it's still something he plans to get to some day. Whatever. As soon as he's working again he and his wife will both be back up to 400 lbs.
The line about thinking he couldn't live without air conditioning was funny too. Now that he can't afford to insulate his body so heavily, he "realizes" he can live without air conditioning. Wow - there's a shocker. Remember when 80 degrees was considered a beautiful, warm day? Now anything over 65 and people are panting and sweating.
How do you get the lie thing at the end of your post to show up on screen?
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
What's surprising is that this story even got posted. Is this supposed to be a 'tongue-in-cheek' sort of deal? I'm confused...
I wouldn't consider anything this Bum writes about in relationship to the benefits of being unemployed as being "Surprising benefits...". Everyone already knows you can sleep till noon, scratch your backside and watch TV all day when you're unemployed.
What is surprising is when someone who cares about anything or anyone other than themselves becomes unemployed, gets off their duff, and finds comparable new employment within a month with the current U.S. job market.
"It is essential that justice be done
Employers don't just want a list of programming languages and work history, they want to get a sense of who is applying.
Too bad this guy is an ass. The only surprising benefit I got when I lost my job was that because I had only recently moved the state of Arizona at the time I had to file for unemployment in my previous state of residence, Oklahoma. This was surprising in that I actually got more money in my checks. I lost my job when Clinton was still president and the economy was already sliding before Dubya even took office.
As for Greenspan, he decided to prematurely burst the economic bubble by raising interest rates. And all that corporate corruption and greed occurred under Clinton's watch. I voted for Dubya mainly to get back at the damned Democrats. This is their punishment for not doing anything about him (Clinton). We do need to dismiss Ashcroft, repeal the Patriot Act, and dismantle Fatherland, er I mean Homeland Security. You think the police state is bad now. Heaven help us if Hillary gets elected in 2008 and gets her hand on that apparatus. So vote for Dean or Clark in 2004.
Where is our Marshall plan for Iraq? 100 points for liberating Iraq, but -110 for screwing up the peace. Thus dragging out the economic recovery.
This is not the bitter rantings of an underemployed programmer. Oh, wait. They are. Never mind!
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I haven't been this depressed since I read "Nickel and Dimed." Excellent book, btw, but don't read it expecting to be cheered up. Anyone who's out of a job, I wish you well. (Been unemployed a bit before; now I've got two.)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
When you hire a lead programmer from a competitor you have thought that you hurt the competitor (Sun Tzu approves). Also the chance that you will benefit from the contacts in the employee's.
Who do you hurt when you hire the unemployed? No-one (Sun Tzu frowns). Obviously unemployed drone has no contacts either.
I have worked steadily every single day of my life since I was four years old. That coal mine taught me to be a man, and it put hair on my chest.
--- Ban humanity.
Given my skill sets I'm sitting down and telling myself I need to leave the corporate world and go my own way. I even have a large cushion of cash to fall back on. Plus my significant hours have resulted in a minimalist livestyle anyway. I estimate I could live for 5 years on my current savings at my current lifestyle, less the costs of other activities I take up (especially significant if you try to start a business). I just don't have time to piece it together while working. And I'm pissing away valuable years if I try.
Only one thing holding me back. My attachment to having a stable respectable job that pays decently. All the skills are there, I could easily acquire support from skilled friends in any profession I could want. I could probably scrape together 50-100K for starting money if I begged a bit without approaching professional lenders. But it's pretty hard to actually quit to do nothing and take a huge "risk" on possibilities coming through. I'm much more the type of person to try to set it all up before I quit, but I just can't seem to get the time together for that unless I quit first.
Anybody else? Could YOU quit?
First, I don't think this article is irrelevant, unlike a lot of the people that posted replies so far (uh, what's this... I'm a (-1, troll) already? dammit...). Some guy's musings about his lack of a job are probably not front-page material, and posting it to Slashdot seems like shameless self-promotion, but the sad truth is that there are more and more people out there who are either unemployed or, almost if not equally as bad, underemployed (McJob, anyone?). People who went to school at the height of the late-90s high-tech boom (like me) are entering the workforce to find it flooded by people who worked through that boom, are more experienced, at least equally skilled, and are also looking for jobs. Even seemingly trivial jobs have substantial requirements of experience and obscure skills because employers know they can easily get overqualified people. At the same time, older people find themselves being edged out by the young'uns, who are willing to work longer and compromise more for less money.
This leads to depression, sarcasm and cynicism, all of which seem come across in that writeup; most of the things he lists there are not really benefits of being unemployed but benefits of having lots of free time, which is a byproduct of unemployment but not the only way to get it. Philosophical insights and beard growth aside, you can get this stuff and still work. The trick is to have a good job, and by that I mean one that affords you lost of free time and enough money to get by. Working for the gov't is good, at least in Canada - pay's ok, hours are fixed, and the boss isn't particuarly evil. Getting into a union, though those are increasingly rare, is even better. My father always complains how lazy those union guys are - I envy their laziness, and weep every time unions lose out to big corporations.
Personally, I've been without a job since April and haven't had much success finding for one. All I'm really going on right now is sarcasm and cynicism - the money's all gone (I guess, then, I'm also going on the good nature of my parents). I'm even starting to become cynical about my own cynicism. I go nutty periodically and produce "great" works of prose (beware of popups, and I promise that my resume is nowhere to be found), but how long can I go on? The end is not in sight...
Even as you read this, your pants are strangling your loins! Aaa!
you'd get hired. ;-)=
What good is 15 years of Netware experience today?
How about someone who knows that the original PC had odd size ISA slots, so that 286 and later cards wouldn't fit?
Who cares that you spent a million hours with DOS and QEMM getting an extra 60K of base memory so somone's blasted Autocad machine would work correctly?
It's turning out that spending 20 years working with computers has been a really poor investment.
Sad. I always thought of learning as something that makes you human (as opposed to insects? viruses?), not rich or job-secure. A lot of people specialize in some industry and when that culture/economy/technology/employer changes and they lose a job (or are about to), they whine as if they've wasted their life or they go cry to the government to try save that dying industry so that they may (selfishly) preserve their outdated niche in society.
Its called evolution. Its a way of life. Only the fittest will survive! And you know who survives? The beings who change. Honestly, if you feel your life was wasted because you specialized in something and the only thing that made you important was that job-field, then maybe you aren't really special. Sorry, but being an intelligent human means being able to use your knowledge for something beyond a stupid job. If all you are is someone who picks up knowledge with no intent to use it beyond the scope of its context, then you are not intelligent, IMHO. But I do not believe any human in this world is NOT intelligent, just someone who has a tainted definition of life.
So here is my suggestion to all you unemployed or job-security conscious people out there: Make yourself special, use your intelligence, and learn things with the intent of using them beyond the scope of their context. Not only will your expertise grow (hence becoming more of an asset), but you may end up creating something innovative.
...small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri...
He left out the mst important benefit of all: the grapes are sour, anyway.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
Is that true? Really? How outdated is outdated?
Every good /.er allready knows all the benifits of being unemployed.
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
do i count? ironically, i worked throughout high school my lack of work affords great time now, however. i finally pulled off a linux workstation that actually works... dear god, it has video acceleration now! i am reading and understanding that which i read. i actually had time to make a schedule (ximian is the greatest!) i can finally listen to all the amassed bulk of my mp3 collection and point and laugh at the riaa from ./ links
life is good without a job ...and to think i'm in school to make getting a job easier.
oh well
The poor and low-skilled blame their problems on the rich. Film at 11.
... He knows how to live despite having been laid off!
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Unless you feel like opening a vein don't read this article. I am officially depressed.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
Once night in downtown Chicago, a begger and his girlfriend came up to my wife (then my fiance) and me as we were walking to a subway stop. He gave his story and asked for some money. I was under considerable financial pressure myself, so I vented...
"Well, I'd like some money myself. I've got four credit cards that I maxed out paying rent while looking for a job, and just graduated college. So I owe $14,000 to credit card companies, $18,000 to my school loans, I still owe $15,000 on my car, and I owe my dad several thousand on top of that. I'm not in too good shape here."
The guy and his girlfriend stopped and gave each other this look. The guy said solemnly, "Man, you in worse shape than me." And they walked off shaking their heads.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
Yea, you can compete with the 79,000 applicants that applied for one singe job at Infosys last month! Just stay politive and shave your beard and you can get that job! It's just a matter of lowering your expecations and pay to compete with all the H1B visa workers.
If you contribute to your company's success and help it to advance its interests and financial health, often making sacrifices of your own time to do so, then your company will reciprocate by making sacrifices in bad times to take care of you by not depriving you of your paycheck and benefits. That's the way I thought it worked.
Funny that, we got a nice speech today from our CTO or some guy who can walk around happily because he won't get outsourced. The speech focused on how we need to keep our performance levels "above the bar", or we'd be managed up or out. [Tangent: GOD I love that term, 'managed out' - HOW FREAKING AWESOME is that?! That's even better than right-sized!] then he goes on to tell us that no job is sacred, and that as a company who has to strive to cut a profit, if outsourcing is a more fiscal option, then they'll take it.
I'm pretty new so I didn't even think to point out the catch-22 he had presented us with. Work hard or get fired, but even if you do work hard, you may get outsourced.
Of course this is the truth, there's no two ways about it. Nevermind the questionable nature of a US company (enjoying US corporate laws, tariffs, quotas, et. al.) that has a majority of its workforce offshores, it's a simple fact that until something changes, be it now or thirty years from now, this is how it is. The flipside is that I have the right to work wherever the hell I want (provided they want me of course), and can leave them at any time.
Fresh out of college, yes, but I think I'll catch on to this twisted game soon enough. The question, however, is how do you maintain a sense of optimism in spite of all this?
Moo
If his daddy was the Bush, would the current appointee to the White House the Shrub??
Wherever you go, there you are.
if you are the curious type and glanced around his site, traversing the links to the other pages, it becomes obvious. I could not help sending him an email,part of which I copied below: (About your Bush vs him page) ....but I can see who is the doofus and who is not. And as you guessed, my opinion on the doofus coefficient between the you two is totally opposite of your views.
As a side note, Clinton era was not the most prosperous era because the womanizer "jerk" had any capacity or capability to find and pick out a black cat out of a pan of milk, let alone managing the prosperity of world's largest economy, he was just having a plain freeride from the Reagan era economy. He, as any liberal leader does, eroded off whatever wealth accumulated for getting re-elected. Now, you and most blind liberals are blaming the economic downturn, over to the republican administration.
If you have not had any economy classes in your extremely crowded education, according to your resume, let me crack you the news here : any economic measure taken today, needs 7 to 9 years till its results can be observed.
I am sick and tired of the blinded liberals like you. I have been in the same jobless trenches for longer than most probably you will ever be, but never blamed it on others. If you can just look around, I am sure you can see too many menial jobs that you can do, but I am sure your "high" standarts will dictate you to spread crap instead of doing something which is really useful. ...
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
1 - That while average Joe Worker makes 66% more salaray than he did in 1980, Joe CEO is making 1996% more than _he_ did in 1980.
2 - that having to sell your house after 8 months of being unemployed, SUCKS, worse than anything you can imagine.
3 - That moving a thousand miles away from a place you consider home for a job fixing Windows boxen is about as fun as it sounds.
4 - That companies do job postings with no intention of filling them.
5 - That of all the oddball things that helped while having a mortgage, a newborn and no job, Wife's Unionized insurance plan is at the top of the list.
6 - that I can now be lazy at work, and get fired, or bust my ass at work, and get fired.
7 - that startng over is as shitty as you think it is.
"See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."
Kind of a lame rant, but somewhat amusing.
He forgot:
* expanding your music collection via KaZaa or Furthurnet
* selling your stuff on eBay and becoming a power seller (who knew 13w3 cables were so valuable?)
* Understanding the intricacies of shipping (see above)
* reading every fark.com comment and even participating in photoshop contests
To risk sounding like Seinfeld: What is the deal with anti-capitalists? Seriously. There's so much of it rampant on slashdot and elsewhere: those evil businesses, those greedy businessmen. When confronted with the alternative, though, people rarely have the gumption to be consistent in their beliefs: Don't like 'big business'? Think everybody should have equal paying jobs? Read up on Marxism and it's success this past century. If you still think 'free enterprise sucks' then at least be logical and apply that belief to your life- move to Cuba.
Sure, I feel for anybody who doesn't have a job, but consider for a second all the people who not only have no job, but no roof over their head, no water or food- or heaven forbid- no internet access to publish essays on. Where are they? In the dictatorial, socialist, and communist countries for the most part. Clearly, if you really want to do this guy and others a favor, the right thing to do is support free enterprise.
I go to school full time, work as a tech at the uni (15-20 hours), a clerk at Mervyn's (4-8 hours a week if that), a programmer for a start up game company and run www.icarusindie.com (currently down due to what I assume is hardware failure since I can't get physical access to the system at this time) which is my attempt at running my own business.
The tech job pays the bills. Mervyn's covers lunch money and the web-site is for now just a small amount of extra money every month. Proof of concept really, so now I'm moving ahead with planning out real marketing strategies.
A kid I know has assembled his own company doing web-design, tech support, and anything else he can think of.
If you don't want to sell your soul to the system, you should seriously consider your skill set and look into creating your own company. I'd rather IcarusIndie.com succeeded but currently it's not self sustaining so working other jobs is necessary. Which isn't a bad way to go about it. Take a job you can stand that pays well and funnel funds into starting up a company and jump ship if your company takes off. In the meantime you can use your business license to get tax write-offs which puts more money in your pocket.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
I want to hear about the benefits of being unemployed from someone who has been unemployed for long enough that the bank foreclosed on their mortgage, then had the car they were living in stolen, then had to move to the greyhound station because there's a limit to the number of days that you can sleep at the salvation army...
This guy's still living indoors, with electricity, running water, has a friggin DVD player, and even a spouse that hasn't left him for someone with job prospects.
He's not really qualified to comment on the perks of unemployment yet. He's living better than 90% of the world. Money is coming from SOMEWHERE. Write back when that runs out...
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
"writer of some repute"
I think not. This writing is not very good. Heck, I even found a sentence fragment. Maybe with that unemployed time he can check his grammer more carefully. (Not that I mean to belittle his situation, but let's not go around calling people great writers just because some of us might share his feelings.)
Well, this guy is pasted together from different material than me:
1. I'm always early, so I always wake up before my watch goes beep beep, and that is the extent of my alarm clock. But since I'm unemployed, I go back to sleep.
2. For me it's homeless and street people. I never carry cash, so I always have to say I don't have any. Now I can say I'm unemployed.
3. No spouse, and I don't expect to be able to impress any prospective boyfriend. Besides that, if I'm not feeling in top form, I'm going to have trouble meeting people.
4. I think ahead, but I was much more organized and structured about my goals when I was forced to think about them, like when I worked 60 hours a week so had to schedule 2 hours per week to handle this type of thing. Now I can put them in the back of my mind and live in the moment, so I can plan things tomorrow.
5. Scams: I have yet to put any money into a bogus `placement' firm.
6. I shave less often, but I still can't grow a beard; it's annoying as heck.
7. I have cleaned some, but in the last four months I really don't think that my average cleanliness has improved any. I guess I'm something like a slob now.
8. I'm still a snob. I still drink martinis. I still buy imported cheese.
9. I have an aversion to light, so I use as little power as possible, but certainly much more since I'm home all day.
10. I get into movies for free.
11. I went running some at the beginning of the summer, but exercise has never afforded me any antidepressive benefits; it just doesn't. I've done some hiking near the end of the summer, and that because I haven't been occupied with work, this is true. But I'm still in worse shape than I was.
12. I don't exercise unless it's scheduled. I'm not scheduled unless I have some reason to be, apparently.
13. My will power is unchanged. I have a block of non-work time; what do I want to do? Do I want to work on a hobby or sit around? Same decision. The only reason that more hobbies get done is because the total available time is greater.
14. I don't claim to understand this society or this federalist republic.
I have a masters degree, so I agree with the posts that note that I won't be working at MacDonalds; I'm overqualified. I've heard that several times. I've tried some other areas, but apparently I don't have enough training there. At least I still have enough room on my credit card to go out in style.
Most likely the #1 Unfunny Meta/Moderator on
I am his #1 and closest caretaker.
Of course that means that I don't have time to do all the things mentioned here and in the article (unless I define reading Classics as reading picture book classics).
Still It is a great feeling that more men should feel.
How the hell is this guy out of work? Did you read that resume? What chance do i have? *gulp*
Ok unemployment sucks, but this article is.. not that good but I digress.
:) Now I have a decent sized income bills are paid, and I get to play around with over 50 linux boxen hosting over 11,000 web sites.
I was unemployed 2 years ago on Oct 16th I knew it was coming, around March I realized (when quarterly earnings showed 1.9 million burned 4 million in the bank, can you say dot BOMB?). So I moved back to the small town I came from figuring it'd be easier to pay a $350 a month rent payment on unemployment than it would a $1300 a month payment in the Bay Area. I moved in July and telecommuted until the end.
I immediately started planning on starting my own business I was hoping to last until about Christmas 2001 but I got axed on Oct 16th instead. Oh well. Started my company, did some consulting here and there, made ends meet, got some customers, a few more, no more consulting was scraping by on the business, more customers, and more, and then tax time comes and I realize I owe uncle sam $13,000 in taxes (YIKES!).
Long story shorter, I get up when I want, go to bed when I want, leave when I want and stay at home with my 3 year old son (well he'll be 3 next week). I run my business from home.
I've always been a unix geek/linux nut/internet addict so why not make a business out of it, web hosting is the perfect job
My wife also just lost her job of over 10 years, company sold out and that's that (they were dying anyway so sell out or bankruptcy they chose sell out). So she stays home draws unemployment and plays with the kid too, a kid with two stay at home parents how lucky can he be? She also is doing some volunteer work.
When the unemployment runs out she might start her own business, she likes decorating cakes, or maybe open a daycare. Or get into real estate she likes going out and looking at nice houses, so why not sell 'em for a living. I told her don't look for another "job" do something you LIKE instead, the money isn't important the satisfaction is.
The economy truly sucks right now and I really would hate to be trying to find a job, but sometimes you might have better luck making your own job instead of looking for one.
--- www.f-theocean.com
They're all unemployed. Nothin' but time!
-schussat
The hour of noon has passed. Let us go and get some Kentucky Fried Chicken.
PhD canidate doing the paper the night before? Question: how many batteries do you chew through each year with your graphing calculator, or are you some sort of *shudder* liberal arts major?
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
This sounds like nothing but a 14 step program. 14 ways to look at a glum problem. Well you can look at it this way there are always jobs out there-it just depends on how much pride you have.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Not a bad idea for those with an abundance of time (I have a 2.5-year-old to take care of and entertain, so I wouldn't be able to take advantage of this).
This is one of the most depressing things I've read in atleast a month. This guy lives in Denver, an hour away from me.
His resume is filled with the same buzzword bullshit as mine, only more of it and with more experience.
I feel right now like I just lost everything in the stock market. 4 years ago when I started college (investing in a skillset), those skills were climbing in value at a good rate. I remember being told that I'd be making an easy 50-60k right out of college - as in the day I graduate.
Now the prices on my skills have collapsed. What once went for $60/share now goes for $2.50. Everyone knows Java. Or Perl, or SQL, or blah blah blah.
I want a real career. Without computers. Without the corporation.
Fuck this.
no comment
Now that my tech company has tanked I live with my folks. (weeeeee) Apparently managerial experience, 2 degrees, and a bagillion resumes aren't enough for a web developer in San Francisco.
Since I'm only 24, and have no savings whatsoever, I'm back at school and living with Ma and Pa. It's awesome. I no longer have sex; I have to check-in if I'm gone for too long; I get told to "be safe" 8 times a day; AND I get to eat my mom's home cooking!
I'm sure most of you would gladly give up sex and freedom for food...right?
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
I suggest that you look at your company in a different manner. The company can provide you and your family with opportunity. The opportunity to earn a paycheck and possibly learn something. When the company has no need for the job that you do or can find someone to do it better or cheaper you will not have a job with that company. On the flip side when the company is no longer offering you a good paycheck or opportunity you will quit. The relationship is really no more than that. The company is not a family, clan, or tribe, just an opportunity.
Stuart Eichert
Be careful, citizen.
Some people wear arms and anticipate these situations.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
Just wait a few years and humility will be yours for the taking. :)
You are implying that it is a direct consequence of your own actions that lead to your unemployment. Unfortunately the real world isn't that nice: Companies go bust, Projects are killed, and decisions are made by those least qualified to make them.
Yes, I was desperate enough to work for less than McDonalds junior wages, programming stock management systems on oracle for a national WAN, purely so I could finish my degree... but that was when I was a single uni student without a responsibility in the world.
As for shareware, just ask some of the shareware companies out there how they are going...
Q.
Insert Signature Here
This person (FannyMinstrel) was warning the rest of us about a goatse.cx link and got modded Troll.
The person posting the goatse link got an offtopic.
no comment
not to sound fruity, but it does give reason for a pause and reflect moment
Absolutely no money
Going to the cash machine and finding you don't have any money and need to go into debt.
The bank manager calls
After 2 months of going into overdraft, the bank manager calls and wants to meet. The upshot is he wants to terminate your account.
You have to borrow money from family
Another wonderful aspect of being unemployed - your savings (if you had any) have run dry, you still can't find a job and you have to stoop to borrowing money.
Your friends and Friday drinks
Your friends call and say "come and have a drink with us Friday afternoon", to which you reply "but I don't have any money", to which they reply "don't worry, we'll pay for your drinks"
So you go and feel really really crappy when you can't buy a round.
The catch-22
It's easy to land another job when you already have one.
If you don't have a job and are applying for a new one, they wan't to know why. The last thing you want to tell them is that you were fired or retrenched.
I've been there, I've seen it twice in my life and the 'benefits' are far far outweighed by the negatives.
Even if you've been savvy enough to have decent savings, just think about them being cut into while your unemployed.
I have to admire the guy for being so optimistic, but it rarely works out that way...
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Dang! Thieving! Varmint!
My wife was so mad that she went back to the bass boat and pulled out the 44 and shot his butt.
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
Is America even "free enterprise"? Are you fucking kidding me? A country where a corrupt government regularly bails out it's richest? And gives billions of dollars to corporations, which immediately pay off corrupt CEO's. A country that doesn't give a shit about educatingg it's youth, because it's too busy gutting social programs and giving that money to Enron, Haliburton, et al. That's "freedom". Freedom means picking on the little guy. Apparently I'm supposed to understand that supporting a corrupt system is "freedom" to you. Call it what you want, I won't support it, and neither will a growing number of Americans. Let's not talk about fantasy land, I'm too busy trying to deal with the real world, I don't know what country you're talking about, but the country I'm living in is corrupt, and has problems that need fixing, and "freedeom" is the last thing that our business leaders are after. If you're too stupid to realize that, then I'm sorry for you.
Consider all of the years that Bush I and II were in the White House. For each and every one of those years, you know how many net new jobs were created? None! After each year of them being president, fewer people were employed at the end of the year. Bush recovery my ass.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
The Plasma that use to be in my blood and the $30 sitting in my pocket and the hole in my arm speak otherwise in the area of BENIFITS of being out of work.
(Score:0, Interesting)
Heavens no, what would a liberal arts major being reading slashdot for anyway??
just stand by and let others get crushed.
Don't point out the problems you say, just let the rich eat the poor. The economy is bad, and your solution is to ignore the corruption. Don't compalin, just keep your chin up. Great idea. Yes, you're real "optimist".
Yes, go back to school you say. Never mind if you're still busy paying back your loans for the first time around, and you're still trying to catch up on earning money. Simply spend more. That's just great. That's exactly what America needs, is a middle class that's in even more debt, that is ever more willing and subservient to employers that don't wannt to drop a dime on education. My response to employers is "Fuck 'em." Let 'em rot, burn and implode. Why should I spend the rest of my life worrying about what their needs are? I've got a bright future without them.
I know scientists on rhizome, I think the net is pretty sophisticated when it comes to diversity.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Being unemployed and/or underemployeed is really kind of cool. You really ought to try it for 6 months or so. I don't live in a ghetto, I'm not next to prostitutes or crackhouses. My needs are really pretty modest I've found. If I was trying to raise a family, and if someone with those kinds of responsibilities has lost a job, you have my sympathy. I live with roommates. I drive a 12 year old car. I cook most of my meals. I steal music. Oops. I mean, I infringe copyrights. =) I do occassional low stress jobs to pay the bills. My standard of living has plummeted, but I really don't care. I'm much happier. Let the Indians or the Chinese work their asses off for a change. They need the money more than i do.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
HA! ya right, and the moon is made of green cheese. the only loyalty I feel for the company I work for is when they are paying me, and that varies upon the ammount they are paying me. More money = More loyalty. at least until 5:30pm then all loyalty stops and they can shove off cause I'm on my own time from then on.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
"The Surprising Benefits of Being Unemployed"
How hard is it to condense this story down to "Surprise! You have lots of time on your hands!" I know-- Slashdot's next story should be on "The surprise disappointments of being unemployed!" since we're on the Captain Obvious kick...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
He hit the nail on the head there. Even though the Do Not Call list is being tied up in the courts, I am regularly answering the phone again. I used to screen all calls through the answering machine, but I find it enjoyable to tell them I am unemployed. They used to call and waste my time, but it seems like they are inflicting it on themselves now.
We both talked for years about trying to lose some weight. As you will have guessed from the preceding paragraph, we're finally doing it.
Wish I had this benefit too! I have been riding the bicycle to most of the classes I am taking with this newfound time. I did lose a few pounds the first semester, but the extra weight I gained last holiday season is still with me.
To a point, how many have the time when you're busting your butt at work to look for another job?
:).
Its not easy getting a job when employed either, but...At least if you're unemployed in a bad economy its not so hard to know why
I suspect that, a year from now, people will be talking about the "Bush recovery," and whoever emerges from the Democratic primary is going to be scrambling for issues to run on.
For the last two years I've been telling myself that things would be better by this time next year. Now I really doubt it. With the Gartner Group saying that over the next 18 months 10% of the remaining IT jobs are heading overseas I really don't think it'll be any better next year at this time. With consumer confidence back down where it was just before the war started because so many people are afraid they'll lose their job, I really doubt things'll be much better next year. With us spending hundreds of Billions of dollars to rebuild Iraq, I really doubt it. But maybe I'll be wrong again this year?
Nah, I doubt it. Bye, bye Bushie, looks like it'll be a democrat next time.
...if you have the moral latitude to embrace them.
During the early 90's I acquired, thru no fault of my own, a bad credit history. I wasn't in debt and never had been, but despite seeing my wages increase more than six fold over the next decade I couldn't even get a standard credit card, let alone anything more ambitious.
So when I was forced to move I closed all my accounts and "forgot" to leave a forwarding address.
Now I'm unemployed and living in a small rented flat my credit history has been left behind. Accounts and plastic once denied me are now mine for the asking.
Then there's the black economy, a little buying and selling turns a nice profit. A card in the supermarket bulletin board gets me casual work repairing PCs, tuition, Internet advice and even some web design.
My DSL connection along with my provider's free web space is enough to run a website that also generates income.
Every penny earned is a penny in my pocket. I don't feel guilty about not paying tax, if The Man doesn't want me at his party then I'm not gonna pay to try and get in. I've paid enough over the years.
The best bit though is that I've fallen off the radar as far as Big Brother is concerned. I still get unemployment even though I've conveniently forgotten my National Insurance number. I feel like I've been reborn sometimes.
I'm 36 with little formal education so my days in the mainstream IT industry are almost certainly over. But I'm not a wage slave anymore. No more crushing onto packed and overheated Tube trains, no more games of pedestrian roulette with London's drivers and couriers. No more rushed lunches (my ulcer hasn't kicked in for over a year!), no more general crap of inner-city life. No more stress. I used to say "I work to live, not the other way around" an attitude that didn't sit well with most managers, but since being unemployed I've found I've actually acquired a life. It's much simpler than the old one, not as fancy, but much more enjoyable.
The most annoying thing about being unemployed is that I still can't visit all those places that I wanted to visit but didn't have the time because now that I've got the time I haven't got the money.
...
... one for creating "Rich Internet Applications" and front-ending web-services.
... over 20 years of journalism only helping a little...
-------------------
On the positive side I've done the other things that people have suggested
I've got involved : restructured the local borough's service delivery and IT structures..
I'm setting up a (hopefully) useful website www.opencouncil.org to promote open source in local government and, in particular, assist in the process of persuading the decision makers, not the techies, of the merits of open source.
I'm creating an open source product
I keep trying to write that book
And I'm keeping myself up-to-date with new technologies.
Actually I was able to do more when I was employed and busy. Having so much time makes it so difficult to concentrate on individual projects.
Staying up all night does let me discover old programs on cable (2hrs of Dr Who most nights) and catch up on the episodes that I missed decades ago..
The availability of instant messaging and email to keep in contact with old friends would take up all my time if I let it..
The bad bits : I am annoyed that my 35 years IT experience is considered a problem - "we have a young team". That being able to understand business systems and problem solving doesn't count if you experience only covers up to version 3.475 of some software that has just released version 3.476.
Seeing job ads that want people in "mid-career" and define that as 2 to 3 years experience. Being unable to apply for lesser jobs because they'll think I'll leave.
And then recently watching a TV ad campaign conning people into spending their money on computer training that will guarantee them high earnings "even if they have no experience".. You have to laugh don't you ??
Paul
-------------------
www.opencouncil.org
Read "Suriviving without a salary" by Charles Long. Make sure to check it out from the library instead of buying it(as mentioned in the book itself). Charles Long is the true penny pinching non-salaried person. Some of his ideas can be far out such as when he comments on how he started to shower in the rain(that is until he almost got hit by lightning).
It's a good guide for learning how to end the daily consumer culture grind.
i don't want to rain on the long unemployment parade, but this article is really not a class act.
it's unorganized and it's mostly irrelavant. it's trying to sing the blues, but it doesn't have any soul.
worse, i find this "blog" only slightly applicable to the real world of job searching -- the worry like ohmigod, rewrite my resume over and over, work on cover letters, fax/email resume after resume, the anxiety over qualifying for unemployment and then making the checks cover my bills, read the want ads, try to dress up appropriately and prep for an interview, sign up for every internet job site, trying not to get depressed over not getting any responses, call ANY friends on my personal network, make cold calls out of the yellow pages to get job leads, stop eating out to save money, wonder who in the family you can hit up for money, and feeling guilty that you can't do more to get employed.
"But perhaps the greatest benefit of being unemployed is this. I now feel absolutely free to despise George W. Bush"
I found your article funny. However, the last paragraph indicates that you are a complete kneebiter.
Wowbagger
Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
Because, when your unemployeed, any future employer will want to know why and how long you have been without work.
(First off, I'll avoid making any comments about the difference between "your" and "you're")
I think you are thinking pre-2001. Seriously. I've hired over 15 people for a medium-term project in the last month or two. Lots of qualified people. Some were amazingly over-qualified. But you know what? We all know that the job market sucks right now and really could care less if you have a three or six or nine month employment gap on your resume. Seriously. Listening to people spend five minutes trying to explain "why" they are currently "between jobs" gets old.
Interview tip: Hold your head high and don't worry too much about your current employment status. Make your cover story short and to the point and then move on.
Personal Aside: The project I have been interviewing people for is so atrociously foul that of the people we have hired, the best have already quit or are in the process of doing so. People's fears that you will jump ship because you are overqualified are justified by real world experiences.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
It got the weekend, the forty hour week. (Unless your exempt). It got rid of Monarchy (unless you're british etc.) It got national health care (well, if you are british). Blaming stuff on other people has helped in a lot of cases.
He said that dedication to a company deserves reciprocal dedication from a company. Is there a problem with that in particular?
-pyrrho
The overall job market in Denver sucks rocks through a straw right now. I can say this with authority, because I live there. I've seen people in all sectors of the market sweating blood to keep their jobs, and looking for months on end when they get laid off. Other parts of the country may be recovering, but Denver is historically one of the last places to feel an economic downturn, and one of the very last to come back from one.
Yes, Mr. Dvorkin is being extremely tongue-in-cheek in his essay. Sometimes, black humor is the only way to keep from ripping your hair out in handfulls. (And, to those helpful souls who have griped about Mr. Dvorkin's writing style, I cheerfully direct you to Messrs. Strunk and White, to learn the difference between "formal" and "informal".) David Dvorkin has both my support and my sympathies.
To all of his vocal detractors, I hope that you're never in the position of trying to figure out how that unemployment check is going to cover your mortgage, and still allow you to eat.
Doing my level best to piss off the religious right wing...
That people are unemployed because there AREN'T ANY FUCKING JOBS TO BE FILLED, DON'T YOU? If there is a 7% unemployment, which is an understatment, it's really above 10%, then that means, that no matter how hard those people try, they are SOL. There just aren't jobs for that 10%, period. They can throw there shoulders back all they want, they can quack like a fucking duck for that matter, it's not going to make a bunch of jobs appear, stupid. According to your logic, all America has to do is throw it's shoulders back, and corporations are going to pull out of India, move back ashore, the government is going to clean up it's corruption, start investing in education, and everyone will be happy again.
I'm supposed to believe that your way of "not taking it for granted", is to promote an ideology that trivializes the plight of that 10+% that doesn't have a job? In other words, those poor people whose plight you are using, ironically, to trivialize their plight. You have to be the stupidest, most superstitious fool that I've met in a long time. Just because you worked in a children's hosptial and a job magically appeared doesn't mean that the same magic trick is going to work for everyone else. I know people that have been out of work for YEARS. I bet if you hopped on one leg and got a job the next day, you would be telling people to do that too.
After I got laid off 2.5 years ago, I decided to go the contract route, and it has been pretty good. The key is to have existing clients, and unique skill sets. I was the lead consultant for my former company, but a lot of the potential customers for that kind of service had competing products. So once I was on my own, a lot of my initial clients made products that competed with my former employer's stuff. My billable hours actually went UP.
Glad I never signed that non-compete!
Anyway, it's important to note that the business didn't really take off until I decided it really was a business, not just what I was doing until I found another job. Once I decided this is what I wanted to be doing for the next ten years, I was motivated to go out, take out some loans, spend the capital to get some marketing, and that kind of thing. The average service business like this isn't really profitable for the first two years. If you accept that and plan accordingly, that's not a big problem.
The mistake I've seen others make is to blow their whole nest egg early in the process, not leaving enough to live on as things start to get rolling. What a business is evolves a lot depending on what clients you actually land, so you need to keep enough money in reserve to be able to keep adjust the plan mid-stream.
My video compression blog
OK, it got your attention. Lots of people use that reply on threads like this - they just haven't lost their jobs yet.
Looking at this guy's resume really shows that 'updating your skills' isn't going to help much given the economic pressures (including outsourcing) we're under right now. We're witnessing an epic shift of knowledge, power and money away from the US and to various well-positioned third-world countries (primarily India and China right now). Perhaps this shift was inevitable, but it also looks like the current adiministration is trying to accelerate it. Perhaps different policies could have at least slowed it down so it would cause less hardship and destruction of the middle class, but again, the current administration doesn't really care as they sit in their finely appointed digs and lecture us on how outsourcing saves money and is in the longrun benefits the economy (while you're waiting for the benefits, there are still spaces under the freeway overpass and you can pick up a big cardboard box out behind the appliance store).
If you're 'updating your skills' in hope that doing so will get you a job in the near future then you're engagine in futility similar to trying to swim against a tidal wave... Unless you're 'updating your skills' in a different direction, like becoming a mortician - with the aging of the babyboomers that's probably one of the few industries that will grow over the next couple of decades (and it's tough to outsource).
If you're unemployed you don't have any money, if you're employed you don't have any time.
If you're retired, you have (some) money and time, but you're old. If you're young and independently wealthy, you suck and i hate you :)
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
How much it really cost to keep a light on while you have a shower?
... I did do this exercise once to defeat an annoying co-habitant, but I can't remember the exact result. It really was not worth talking about, even for (at the time) starving students :) 20 cents to run a light for 24 hours, or something like that. I remember giving her one dollar, and requesting that she therefore never bug me about lights again, as those few minutes I leave lights on are now covered for at least a year.
The obsession people have with not leaving lights on even for a few minutes has always bothered me, because it's really the last thing you should be concerned about. I'll have to look at my electricity bill when I get home and work it out
And then there are flourescent lights. In that case, they are cheaper to run, *but* it takes a lot of electricity to start them up. The equivalent of about 30 minutes worth of running time IIRC. This means that if you walk into and out of a room switching the damned flourescent light on and off, you are actually costing much more money then just leaving it on! And yes, the ex-roommate kept switching the flourescent kitchen light off, and then back on again, every ten minutes.
Hi! Where can I find such an unemployed webdesigner/programmer to start a collab? I have an idea for a website and look for someone to collab on the international version. TIA, Andreas
Im pritty sure mcdonalds dont care if your unemployed or not. Infact, they'd probably hire unemployed over employed, because if your employed, it'd be sad too work for mcdonalds if your higher up. The only worst job would be bill gates's foot massager. Even if it payed alot. (no offence too mcdonalds peeps :o)
"Fear teh chickens.. do not use teh window, use teh curtain." ~ChickenKillr
It made me realise how big a hypocrites they are too. Every regular company meeting there was at least 5 minutes saying to us "you are the company", "without you we couldn't do what we do".
Well news for the men at the top we didn't f*ck up (habit with the spelling of profanities for passing through the e-mail filters) getting new business. We did your end of getting projects done as asked. But who gets goodbyed?
I'm actually much happier for it. Having had the summer off I'll start work again before the end of the year doing what ever comes along. Even making coffee. I work to live not live to work
1. Capitalism sucks as bad as communism. It just takes a little longer to realise...but you realise it well when you are fired and you can't find a job.
Making a comparatively huge wage for years, then spending a while unemployed before making another (comparatively) huge wage is much better than being forced to work in a tedious, menial, or back-breaking job for your whole life with no hope of ever escaping abject poverty. If that isn't clear to you, maybe you could use a stint in a poor country to help you see the real world. If you've never lived outside of the U.S., you've never seen what a hard life really is.
3. Companies sell their products with up to 90% profit, especially those that outsource production. And the profit fills the pockets of their owners
If you think that many companies make 90% profits, you obviously don't understand the costs of doing business. Any market where a company can repeatedly make a profit anywhere near that level is a market that will soon be flooded with competition. For a company to make actual profits even in the very low double-digits is very, very good.
7. If you ever realized how good rich people live, a revolution would be started in a minute.
If you've ever lived in a truly poor nation, you'd realize that you, by virtue of the fact that you're even posting on Slashdot, are likely within the wealthiest 5% of the entire world. The lifestyle accorded to an American working for minimum wage is literally an impossible dream to hundreds of millions of people.
9. If you ever realized that the rich people got rich by stealing,
Yes, we all know that poor people never obtain their means through criminal means.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
They don't count kids, retired persons, or anyone not actively trying to find a job. Give up looking and you fall into the latter category. As for what they do. Some live off their savings, go back to school, travel, become a stay-at-home parent, or whatever. We had a guy at my work quit and paint things for himself for a year and a half (living off savings) before looking for work again. Bit stressed out.
4 years ago my company lost 95% of it's revenue generating contracts (programming consulting at the time) in a 3 month period, 35-40% went to India. As an added insult we had to train them while laying off our staff, and keep 1 person around on an el cheapo retainer just in case they screwed up badly down there and needed help. We helped ensure there was no risk to them while they screwed us. Course, since then we rebuilt and have recovered significantly by creating different products. But man did that period of time suck. Remember that 10% isn't evenly spread out.
...ah!! all those sniffing and spying over the traffic of your employees does wonders!!
Just get a good sysadmin lackey with no friends within the company.
This guy could be suffereing from the extra burden of ageism also. His resume shows that he has started working for Nasa in working since 1967. That means that he is probably about 57 years old and looking for work as a programmer.
[news for me, stuff that doesn't matter]
I was a March layoff. Funny thing, I never thought I'd be let go since I was young, relatively speaking.
The usual thing you hear is, "better you than me, you'll have no problem finding a job." This from co-workers and other middle-aged employeed people.
I didn't see it. For the last few months I pushed real hard to get a job, particularly in a prospering market area. It was a no go. The only responses I've got were from staffing firms. So, I gave it another ultimate go, handing out revised resumes to friends and all the jobs I took an interest in.
My friend told me he was jobless for 8 months, so he suggested, just get used to the empty ride. I figured employees wouldn't be knocking down my door, so I picked up a few things.
I learned how to do wood flooring, installed wood floors in all my rooms. I taught myself how to do home improvement skills, painting, texturing, adding trim around walls and such. I taught myself how to do tiling. I burned a bit of cash to do something I always wanted to do, but never had the time. I also made a website, re-learn web making skills. I also got back to exercising and eating right, lost a lot of weight.
I got a lot of things done, but I only see it as keeping myself from going crazy.
- Experienced personnel
They are not:
- Providing training programmes
- Entry level jobs
Apparently the overhead involved in training new personnel or hiring somebody with less than a minimum of 5 years experience is too great for this to be a viable option for modern European companies. Just getting an engineering degree is insufficient. They only ray of sunshie here is that they are prepared to hire you, even if you are not especially experienced, if you have a set of cetificates the length of your arm. Unfortunately most certificates are obscenely expensive to get, they are slightly less obscenely expensive to maintain and in Germany at least, where I used to work, many companies seem to expect you to pay for your vast portfolio of obscenely expensive certificates out of your own pocket and to do the studying on your own time. And with all of this plus the ever present danger of being dropped like hot potato (ie getting your ass fired) every time one of the CO's feel in a mood to draw the magic cost cutting sword from its stone and go on a crusade, they expect you to be loyal to the company. It kind of makes me glad that after 6 months of being unemployed I finally found a job with one of those haples idiot companies that will still hire people with limited experience.Have karma will burn it!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
bashing article in the guise of post-employment enlightenment.
Don't people have better things to do then live for every opportunity to bash someone...geesh...
Go hound the IRS or something...or join Al-Queda...
=8-)
Pretty odd really, his entire set of "benefits" were almost entirely negative, or at least presented negatively: for example, not needing to wake up to the alarm clock, yet waking up anyway at the crack of dawn owing to a sense of dread. That seems to stem from a less than positive outlook on life, and it isn't really all that consistent with the title of the essay.
... as long as you don't fall for the hype, and you keep the telly firmly switched off, and you do your own thing.
... same square format, no evil hype. :-)
As a freelancer, I go through long periods between contracts as part of normal operation, and yes, one does turn down the spending knob to its lowest setting, but it's entirely a positive experience. One simply doesn't need to keep up with the Jones's every time they go out to the restaurant, buy a new DVD, or upgrade their car. Life in the affluent west is great
And as a programmer, assuming that it's in your blood and not just a job, then "your own thing" really means being creative with computers.
So, I'd have expected a long list of new technologies that he'd always meant to catch up on and now has the time, and a long list of personal projects that he always wanted to develop and at last has the opportunity, etc etc.
Being positive is in the mind, and has almost nothing to do with external circumstances, and definitely has nothing to do with financial circumstances.
Just keep that telly firmly switched off, as it's the primary instrument of evil hype and distorted goals, and it will not help you to feel happy in yourself unless you have the cash that the advertisers implicitly require viewers to have. The messaging is largely subliminal or implicit too in "entertainment" features, so it's not enoough to simply avoid the adverts. Stick to online games
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
There is actually an entire movement of people that have discovered this.
There is at least an entire continent that has discovered this: Europe. Industrialized nations all of them, the top nations on all quality of life rankings, little violence, though a bit crowded. Now check the hours they work. Now realize that, by law, they have weeks and weeks of vacation time -- if I remember correctly, it is 20 days by federal law for Germany. You have 35 hour work weeks in a lot of places. You have paid maternity leave and sick leave. You can't be fired at the drop of a hat.
Why does this work? You don't buy every piece of crap that some ad throws in your face. Consumer spending is two-thirds of the U.S. economy. In Germany (to stick with the example), it is about one third. You don't pay your CEOs so much money that a company's pay chart has to have a logarithmic scale: Read up on what the Daimler managers at DaimlerChrysler get and what the Chrysler managers get. Try to explain -- with a straight face -- why some Chrysler manager who couldn't keep his company from being de facto swallowed gets more money than they guy who is now his boss.
It used to be that the U.S. economists pointed to all of this and said, yeah, sure, you have universal medical care while we have children who can't get antibiotics, you are home with your families while we are putting in more hours than the Japanese, and you are getting tan on Spain's beaches five weeks out of every year while we don't dare take those pitiful few days of vacation we have. But your unemployment is high and not coming down.
Well, guess what: This is basically going to be a jobless recovery. Maybe some of Europe's prices can't compete with the U.S., but nobody can compete with India, and even India can't compete with China, or government-sponsored slave labor in Burma. Your job is ending up in Asia just like everybody else's. And do you really think that it is going to come back in our lifetime? Fool.
Tell me again why you are spending all that time at work while those Europeans are at home after 35 hours and playing with their children. What is the justification? More to the point, what is wrong with you? Why are you supporting, maybe even defending this system instead of trying to change it?
Remember when Tyler Durden told you that you are not your job?
Fight Club, book (which this quote is from) and film, are so hated by the establishment not because of the violence, but because the CEOs and such ilk are deathly afraid that the American middle class will figure out that it isn't worth it -- that the Europeans (though politically they might be loathsome cowards), might have the right idea here. That you don't need to by the latest gadget, follow the newest fad, buy the newest gizmo. They might decide that quality of life is more important than blowing their paycheck on crap just to keep the GDP up by one more decimal point. They might decide they don't want to be bombarded with ads morning, noon, and night.They might not want to make their carreers the center of their lives anymore. They might not want to define themselves by the job they have. They might not be content anymore to start living only after they have stopped working.
It's you choice, really. The U.S. is just about the only real democracy on the planet (ironically, all of those Europeans are living in republics). You can change the system, and get this country's priorities straight -- once you have gotten yours straight.
What about: the surprising benefits of being dead?
You've obviously never 'been there'. I was laid off a couple of years ago, and although I never fell behind on my bills, it was the worst six months in my life....period. This guy's attitude is stellar compared to mine. I was a mental wreck.
Since then, however, my attitude towards the corporation has completely changed -- especially when they come 'round with their 'hooray team spirit rah-rah' sessions. What a crock.
you had it easy! Ever since I came out of the womb I had to work in a copper mine, toiling away, working 36 hours a day, 9 days a week, 400 days a year! Then when we got home, our parents used to thrash us to bits with a broken bottle and dance on our graves singing "Halleluja"! Each and every day.
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
I've made the same realization. Good tech jobs requiring what used to be not-so-popular skills and paid 50-60k were everywhere. Now it seems everyone and their dog can write code and the employers know that -- no more 50-60k jobs.
I got the boot from a good job only to find out they hired someone new at half the rate just a couple of weeks later. And now, having been actively looking for work for the past 9 months, I see that the few companies that *are* hiring are paying even less than that.
I'm no longer looking for the good tech jobs anymore. Instead, I've enrolled at the local university to earn a B.A. in English -- or maybe psychology -- or anything else that doesn't smell like IT or technology.
I figure I'll always have the tech experience to fall back on if that market recovers, but in the meantime I'll have earned a degree in something completely different with completely different opportunities.
I was out of work for a while when everything went under. Actually, I was out of work twice, once right at the end of 2000 and once in late 2001. The first time was because a major corporation decided to trim the fat and clear out an assload of consultants. I don't blame them for that, and I wasn't really sorry to go. The second time, I was working for an HMO provider, and they went belly-up because of shady accounting practices. Neither time was really related to the bubble.
However, the first time I was only out of work for a month, and the second time for about three months. During the inbetween times I kept studying software development, cleaning up my resume, and tossing it off. In the end, I got those new jobs because I actually had the skills necessary for "senior"-level positions.
This guy's resume is exactly the kind I walk away from. He's floated from language to language, technology to technology, and doesn't have a mastery of any of them. I won't go into specifics, but this looks exactly like a guy that doesn't learn anything he doesn't pick up from his current job. One job leads to another only by virtue of what odd jobs his former employer required him to do. A single one-off project in language X produces a marketable skill? I've been doing server-side Java development for 7 years and the market is still a tough nut to crack.
Learn how to do something (software development or tech writing, for example) and learn how to do it really well..the jobs will follow.
The topic would be fun.. but this article sucked. It was boring as snot. Some reput indeed.
A friend of mine, still living at home at the age of 29, got laid off from a major entertainment firm over two years ago. Got a six-month severance package, with benefits, AND unemployment insurance. Decided to wait a couple of months to really look for a job. Then the Sept 11, 2001 attacks really finished off the job market. Look, everyone's free to live their life as they see fit, but someone who collects that much money and doesn't seem to care about working is crapping on everyone that got a measly package and WANTS to work. He's even turned his nose up at fairly decent paying temp work ($15-$20) an hour, because it "wasn't what he wanted to do." So he's hurting his own chances of getting another job with a HUGE gap in his employment history. And setting himself up to not have the resources to start a family and retire well. He doesn't realize that these are peak earning years for us. In effect, he's retired at the age of 29 with not much in the way of assets. I'm sure he'll be working well into his 70's...
Maybe if a few more people would create their own damn jobs...
It shocks me that people like you believe jobs are just "there" and should be filled. Here's some information you should remember: For each job, there's someone out there who's taken a chance at creating it.
Why not try to become the guy who creates the jobs? Are you afraid to do so? There are dozens of SBA grants and assistance programs around. There are dozens of IDAs and other local government agencies to help out.
Instead of whining about it and blaming the Republicrats, why not get out there and start something of your own? Take the chance!
I'm a PhD-type, and neither do I use a calculator, nor am I a libarts type (except in my Copious Free Time). These things certainly do not form a partition of the disciplines available!
Lea
(see, I talk like an academic, at least!)
My world is falling apart, this teeny little site isn't going down! The full wrath of Slashdot, and it withstands our onslaught with impunity!
c k- reload-reload-click-clickity-click-reload- reload-click
WHY. WON'T. YOU. GO. DOWN?
Dammit, Slashdot isn't like it used to be. We used to be feared. We used to be somebody. We were like the Mongol Hordes swarming like a plague over the net, destroying all who were in our path.
Now we can't even take down an unemployed guy's resume site and blog. (*sighs dejectedly*)
clickity-click-reload-reload-click-clickity-cli
Awwwww, C'MON! This isn't FAIR!
He sounds like an aging hippy that got cut because he wasn't the new kid on the block anymore. I agree some people need to get over how much thet hate Bush and direct their anger,or energy some where else.
This is the way the world ends, not with a bang , but a wimper
Look, you want a simple life, go get it. You want a short week, go for it. You want a 35 hour job and can't get one, start your own business and see if you can provide one.
It's not enough that 46 cents of every dollar my company produces goes into a government coffer before hitting one of the employees bank acounts?
How many chains do you want to put on us.
Without excessive government interference, we'd be twice the size we are now (read that as "creating more jobs" for those of you that believe in our Marxist/Fascist economy).
The middle class is getting squeezed by your policies. The government bails out/subsizes the biggest businesses to keep the stop market rising, which shifts tax money to the richest Americans (because they own stocks). Then the tax code hits people generating income.
So: produce wealth, get it taxed away. Simply own wealth, and much of that money comes back to you.
The government taxes productive businesses to give it to unproductive ones to "keep existing jobs."
Sure, the Steel Tariffs saved jobs in the steel industry. For every job saved, how many jobs were lost/not created in the automotive industry because of higher steel prices. How many jobs were not created in corporate America because the company car-fleet costs more than it should? How many jobs were lost in the computer industry because consumers had less discretionary spending because their car lease costs an extra $10-$20/month.
All this meddling destroys economic growth, and is killing those of us willing to work 60-100 hours/week greating the economic engine that the rest of you live off of.
Alex
I'm a EE. I'm thanking my lucky stars, because most people here will hire (or displace) someone with a CS degree for me. I remember deciding to do EE over physics in class one day in high school. Big day, that was.
Anyhow - I don't just program - learn how to do something else. I've been learning how to rebuild engines - not the oil change stuff, the jack the engine out of the car variety. I've already had people approach me wondering if I can do work for them, and I've made a few bucks on the side. Anyone who can fix a computer or program can fix a car - hell, there's even programming involved.
Same applies for industrial controls. There are many factories and production lines using older control systems - you can make them faster and more profitable by changing the electronics a little. I make a nice side income there, too.
If things are really bad - move. If you don't want to, make do.
..don't panic
"Making a comparatively huge wage for years, then spending a while unemployed before making another (comparatively) huge wage is much better than being forced to work in a tedious, menial, or back-breaking job for your whole life with no hope of ever escaping abject poverty."
That's the whole point. This is reality for many in the United States, not just overseas.
Sounds like the stuff you hear on Jerry Springer when a lardarse gets heckled for being fat - "Heat in winter, shade in summer, baby", like, as if those "suprising benefits" make it worthwhile.
Despite two recent wars killing lots of US soldiers, plus 12+ month tours in 130-degree desert dirt, the US army and reserves are having a record recruiting year. Its not pure patriotism, but economics. Most recruits said they need a steady job. Have to be under 35 to join.
Having a job comes in handy for saving for your retirement you know.
Kinda pathetic to end up as an old man who has no one to care for him and no way of doing so himself.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Work less, buy less
I saw that phrase spray painted on a wall in Carlisle (northern England) in 2001. I have to say it's one of the most profound and insightful phrases I have ever come across.
The fact is that, as Marx and Engels correctly stated, capitalism leads to massive over-production, and because of this must constantly search for new markets for the goods it produces in order to justify itself. Now we have rampant globalisation it is no longer sufficient for this expansion to be geographical in nature. Instead the cult of marketing is used to persuade people that they need what recently didn't exist.
I have expierienced poverty (or what passes for poverty in the industrialised west), and I have also expierienced a more conventional middle class existence. I can honestly say that you do not need what the arch-capitalists are trying to sell you.
Why spend an hour commuting in your polluting vehicle to work all day in a job you hate for people you despise? Is that whay you really want to do with your life? Do the suger-water, status symbols, foreign holidays and useless junk make it worth while? I don't think so.
I am not in favour of 'sponging' off society, that is not the answer either. Instead: Work less, buy less.
I know a number of former IT people who languished in umemployment for a long time before they realized those jobs are gone and never coming back, just like the steel mill jobs here in Pittsburgh. Now, one works at Marshalls (discount store), one drives a limo, and one sells furniture for a living. And they are better off.
Did you read his resume??? He has been working since 1967 (for NASA) and had a job up through this year (2003). If I'm doing the math correctly, he's been working for 36 years!!!! He also has a master's degree, so it is hard to say if he was working while he got that or if he stayed in school during that time, which should place him at about 58 - 60 years old!!!! He had some NICE jobs, so there had to have been SOME money that could have been saved. And after 36 years, and by the article, it sounds like he has his house paid off ....
Unfortunately, this sounds like typical American downsizing ... and that due to his age. However, he should be able to begin to collect social security and (hopefully) find a much more stress free job (working at the local super market) ... which should be enough to get by on ... and should still provide him with LOTS of time to do all of the things he mentioned in the article.
During this kind of economy, retirement might actually be the better option .... (again, depending on his actual age ... I'm only speculating as to what I think his age MIGHT be)
Just some food for thought ...
Now for the younger people, I have no idea what to say ... but I've been there, and done that ... and it sucks!
HallmarkOrnaments.Com
he said he had roommates. In some cities, rent is cheap even in the nice areas. If you have 2 or 3 roommates, you can find a 3 or 4 bedroom house or apartment that is quite afordable. Owning a house also helps, which would eliminate the need to pay rent (though other expenses would probably make up for this difference).
#!/
"Second, are you somehow suggesting that the social welfare of minorities like the Iraqis and muslims is somewhat less valuable than an unemployed person in the US? Which is worth more? Is one okay to be unemployed and the other not? Why? One the surface your statement belies a latent racism/nationalism that is offensive at best and abhorrent at worse."
You're dead on bud, I don't care about some fucktard camel jockey. I want a goddamn job!
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
Bull Crap.
I get so sick of people taking like this.
You education is free in the us, get good grades get a scholarship it's not that hard if you are willing to work and work hard getting good grades.
I taught hs math for a while, guess many of the students never tried. They wouldn't work, they wanted to smoke, play sports, play music, whatever but didn't want to study.
Do I feel sorry for them? Yes, people tried to make them see how many doors they were shutting but that's about all you can do.
So now these folks have lousy back breaking tedious jobs but they made that decision a long time ago.
Bet the person who bought your house wasn't working at McD's. Figure out were they get their money, and your home free.
If they got your home free, then they probably don't have very much money.
Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
If you live in Chicago, you can go to day games in Wrigley Field.
i'm not sure, if its just your current view of your situation, or you made an "unlucky" decisions a few years ago.
... even though current circumstances eliminates the earnig-perspective (which is not an easy one ... i know), it shouldn't feel like "wasted so much time, effort and money" because you spent these learning interesting stuff - you could have done worse.
in my opion, as long as you are not rich enough, making a decision about education should be about a career you can live on AND is a matter of interest to you. so
Then again, its kind of pathetic to have saved and scraped for your retirement and missed out on so much life along the way. When your nest-egg is eaten up by all the private medical insurance and/or no insurance and astronomical medical bills to keep you going, its kind of a mute effort. All I want at age 65 is a front porch and a rocking chair. Retirement is only for the super-rich - do not kid yourself. I sure want be mountain climbing or kayaking the rapids at retirement age.
Boy can I relate to this one.. When I was unemployed I lost 30 lbs. I think from just sheer worrying about getting another job, increased activity around the house, and stress. Now that I am back to work I quickly put the weight back on, but being unemployed has taught me quite a few lessons,
1. SAVE!! (and I dont mean 50$ here and there) Hundreds of dollars or more a month if possible. You will need it if you are ever out of work for a long period of time. I just payed off my car so I am going to take every penny of that payment and put it in savings every month.
2. Unemployment doesnt pay shit
3. Its very easy to get used to living and eating well. Buy generic all the time if you can. Its just as good in most cases and every penny counts.
4. In this economy its not a matter of If a rainy day is going to come, its WHEN a rainy day comes.
While reading this article, which is really good, by the way, I clicked on the "resume" link and glanced at it. I figured he was a dot-com generation guy who had gotten out of school and started working for six-figured salaries until his various employers started showing up on f**kedcompany.com. You know, the same old story of the IT workers who didn't how much they had until they lost it. But Holy Astronauts, Batman! This guy worked on the friggin' APOLLO program. He worked at NASA from 1967-1971 (the year I was born).
There michael goes again... posting dumb stories.
In Soviet Russia... Dumb stories post MICHAEL!
--
"What do you want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? Cause I'm married."
I agree, and I'll even say I don't understand how anyone of even lukewarm intelligence can blame the dot-bomb collapse on Bush. Don't get me wrong - I don't *like* Bush, and there's *plenty* that he directly answers for - but this isn't it.
The economy was already heading south by the end of 2000, and the crash was, by that time, completely inevitable. Christ himself (I mean Greenspan) couldn't prevent it.
So if you actually feel like blaming a President for the collapse, Clinton's your man.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Not too long ago, I resigned my (reasonably well paying) job without an immediate offer. I did this because of personal obligations which were impossible to fill while at my job at the time. These personal oblications began to become legally complicated and at the end, after much deliberation, I resigned my job and became willfully unemployed. At the moment I have no income. Period.
;-)
At the same time, I have never worked so hard in all my life. Although I am able to spend time with my family, I have never before worked 13-hour days 6-7 days a week! I am developing new software with the hope that I can leverage it in developing a consulting business (and I am not legally able to be employed in the country where I am for the next 3-4 weeks anyway).
I have found I am more creative than ever, and I am more *productive* than ever. I call that a real benefit. Now if I could get some income
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
On the political discussion, Alan Greenspan has more influence over the economy than whoever the president happens to be. I could never understand why people automatically give credit to the leader of the executive branch of the government for anything that happens to the economy. Was Hoover responsible for the stock market crash of '29? No. He just happened to be in office that year. Same with Clinton and the internet bubble. That's why you got to do you own thinking on these, or any, issues. People will try to sell you circumstantial evidense as hard fact and get you to buy into their ideas/scam.
Please consider teaching, especially if you are in the U.S. There is a huge demand for teachers of science, math, foreign language, special education, and other fields.
Many states have special programs to attract new teachers from business and industry that, in effect, will give you not only teaching licensure but also a Master's degree-- for free (in the form of grants, forgiven loans, etc.)
Teaching is of course a challenging job, and you'll never get rich doing it, but then again you can say that about working in a cubicle farm. But there's this Warm Fuzzy Feeling that you get when your blood, sweat, and tears are for the betterment of mankind, not stockholder profit.
CC-licensed translations of Japanese fiction: http://tonygonz.blogspot.com/
Since when is someone's pathetic blog considered news? Sweet jesus on a motorbike!! There's gotta be something relevant happening out there SOMEWHERE!!
GET FREE APPLE STUFF!
This advice is not very practical. I live in Canada. When you get laid off from a high-tech firm up here (as I and 4 of my closest friends have been), you get nothing from the government until your severance runs out. The government's calculations, however, are a little different from your former employer's. Your former employer gives you about 4 months of salary, which the government believes should last you 6 months. Then, there is a 2 week grace period, then your EI benefits start. However, you get paid at the end of each period, so there's 2 more weeks with no money coming in, for a total of 7 months.
Now, EI in Canada caps off at $400/week (minus income tax, of course - you gotta charge income tax on EI benefits, it only makes sense, right?), so you see about $700 every two weeks, once the benefits kick in. They'll keep on flowing for 50 weeks.
If you get a job during this time - any job - the benefits stop and the clock resets.
Now do some math. You get almost a full year of benefits, paying $400/week. You would have to find a full-time job that paid at least $10/hour just to match that. And while you were flipping those burgers at Micky-D's, earning a ludicrous salary compared to your high-school co-workers, you are unable to look for a job in your field because you're too busy cleaning deep friers and asking "you want fries with that?"
The banks, however, still expect you to keep paying the $500/month you owe them for those student loans they gave you to get that fancy, expensive techy education. Of course, they give you a break on the interest while you're unemployed (if you file for interest relief), but now that you're working again, they expect you to resume the payments.
Not to mention rent, gas, insurance, utilities, groceries... all that was OK when EI was kicking in the $400/week, because you could devote 100% of your time to looking for a job and getting back into the game. But if we took your advice (which amounts to little more than "suck it up and take a crappy job which gives you less than you'd get from EI doing nothing at all"), we'd be stuck in that low-paying sh*t job indefinitely, as we slowly bled ourselves into bankruptcy.
Great advice.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
As a student one of the most important things I've learned is getting up early. That is, not sleeping in. Getting up by 8am every day makes me more productive than I would have ever guessed. Any later than that, and my day is toast. It's strange.
;) Seriously, getting up early makes a big difference. Even when I'm fartin around on my computer. I though hackin code was all about stayin up late - it's all about gettin up early! It's just a matter of self-control. You're workin on somethin and you just wanna keep goin - but it's that much better with a fresh mind in the early morning. Some problems I've spent hours on the night before I'll wake up the next day and solve in 5 minutes. It's crazy.
An even better combination is getting up bloody early and going to the gym. My gym opens at 6:30am, and I'm there when the doors open. A jog and some good stretching is a great way to get fired up for the day. Some weights too, if I have time. I did this in the summer before work too. Makes my day much better.
I even did it when I was home from school and before I started work. You'd be surprised at how nice mornings can be.
Whatever you do, don't sleep in! (well, maybe on the weekends once in a while
Try it!
-kidlinux.
This article is mostly dead-on, but misses the mark in two respects on the loyalty question.
In the first place, it's wrong to say that companies are loyal to their Boards of Directors, or shareholders. The fact is that companies are loyal to nothing whatsoever, except possibly to the neurotic personal needs of their executives and managers. If companies were loyal to their boards or shareholders we wouldn't see the gross mis-management and poor corporate governance that is all too common.
In the second place, employees should not just not be loyal, they should be actively disloyal, in the sense that every employee should be in the job market all the time. Seriously.
That means keeping your resume up-to-date, and reading the job ads in your field (print and on-line) regularly. If you see something that looks particularly interesting, don't be shy about applying for it, and if you get an interview go for it. It'll keep your interview skills in shape, and you never know--it might be your dream job. Don't worry about wasting anyone's time: as mentioned by other posters, companies advertise jobs they have no intention of filling, so turn-about is fair play.
Furthermore, you should be fairly up-front with your current employer about this attitude after you've been with them for a year or so. You don't have to make a big deal of it--just mention casually now and then that you've seen that Company X is hiring (it helps if Company X is a well-known competitor, as your boss won't know if you're keen and keeping an eye on the market or thinking of jumping ship.)
No matter who you work for, you are your own boss. You are the only boss who will ever care about your career, your goals, your well-being or the well-being of your family.
After moving into the tech world from academia seven years ago, I've had five jobs. I jumped ship twice, companies folded twice, and I'm currently running my own business after a period of unemployment resulting from the last company folding, so I know whereof I speak. Both as a developer and a manager I pursued the policy I've outlined above.
As a manager, I encouraged members of my team to do the same--I wanted them to be able to walk in the door in the morning and ask, "What has the company done for me lately?" and be able to find an answer that would motivate them to work hard and well, which they did. Of course, part of the answer to that question is always, "Paid my salary", which is important to keep in mind.
Senior management, of course, did not like my attitude--amongst other things, they were unhappy that I insisted that every member of the development team actually take all the accrued vacation owing to them! But so long as my team kept mysteriously producing outstanding results they had to put up with it.
And equally unsurprisingly, those outstanding results did not stop half my team from being laid off (over my objections) a few months prior to the company folding up.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
A Loser is always Loser
A Winner is always a Winner
Having spend 16 months sans job, with a new baby showing up about 3/4 of the way through it, I can safely say, that your attitude towards life is what makes it (and you) a good, worthwhile Winner, or a pathatic, whiney Loser.
Remember, a loser not only looks to lay blame for their predicment on ANYONE else, but insists on holding that someone else repsonsible for fixing their problem.
A winner will note how they got screwed, remember not to let it happen again, and WORK to pull themselves out of whatever mire they are stuck in.
There were times, when I was looking at the mounting doctor bills, borrowed money payments, and other things stacking up, when I wondered if _I_ was truly worthless, because I couldn't find someone to pay me full time (like everyone else, I did the consultant thing to tide me over).
Every time, I came back to the fact that we let dumb asses screw up our businesses, and the Head Honcho in DC did NOTHING not even think about providing oversite, we have to pay the price for their lack of responsibility.
The fact that it was all coming home to roost a few MONTHS before 9/11 happened, and that so many companies blamed that tradegy for their failure sickened me. This was going to happen one way or another, because too many companies used their VC money and the media to inflate and overhype themselves, with the SOLE purpose of rapeing their investors.
When companies are not in business to make money, but to 'increase shareholder value', that is always a bad sign. When a company is in business to 'build enough value to sell to another company' that is a REALLY bad sign. Yet over and over again, we saw BILLIONS of dollars handed over to people who's express purpose was to do exactly that! They called it 'The New Economy' and said all the old rules were wrong...
Yea, Right.
It wasn't my fault I had lost my job, but it was my problem. What was I doing about it... Well for one thing, I woke up early every morning. I had a routine. I had a new job, I would tell myself. I was now in marketing, and the product was ME. First 2 or 3 hours of the morning was spent pouring over 10 diffrent on-line newspapers (they have better want-ads than monster, with less competition). A break for Lunch. After noon was spent calling as many new prospects as I could looking for full or part time work. Break for dinner, and I would sit back and enjoy the fact that I had not wasted a day.
Of course, it was nice to be able to do that at home, with my lovely wife (and eventualy child) to comfort me, and remind me why I wanted to do what I was doing.
I considered starting my own business, but remembering how hard I had worked at previous ones, decided that now as not the time.
I survived. You will too, if you keep your head up, and continue to BELIEVE your skills are worthy of getting paid. If you can't convince yourself, you sure arn't going to convince anyone else they should pay you!
If you believe your skills are not going to get you the 'big check', for whatever reason (lack of experience, too much competition, etc), then you are in the wrong business. Your carreer needs to provide you with satisfaction beyond just the money you expect to gain. If you REALLY enjoy what you are doing, the money is a secondary consideration.
When you are successful at what you do, that will result in you making lots of money. Don't make the mistake of thinking making a lot of money makes you sucessful. Most of the time making a lot of money is the RESULT of sucess.
So, your goal should not be to make the big paycheck, INITIALY, your goal should be to be the BEST at whatever it is you do. That will LEAD to the big paycheck, if that is what you want.
If your goal is making a lot of money, you will FAIL. Only the guys that work in the mint make money. If you want to EARN a lot of money, see the previous paragraph.
After working at my new job for only six months, we have virtualy erased all the debt built up during our 'vacation', and are closing on a new house at the end of the month...
Go and do Likewise, The money is out there. If you can't be bothered to pick it up, I have no sympathy for you.
" While reading this article, which is really good, by the way, I clicked on the "resume" link and glanced at it. I figured he was a dot-com generation guy who had gotten out of school and started working for six-figured salaries until his various employers started showing up on f**kedcompany.com. "
And there in lies most of the problem. Nearly everyone replying, comes in with bad preconceptions.
I got news for everyone. There are a lot of people out of work, whom the dot.com never even touched. There were a lot of people who only made 5 figures, or less. Just because a few made out well doesn't mean we all did.
If you liked this article, then definitely must read Juliet B. Schor's "The Overspent American: Why We Want What We Don't Need." She makes a great argument that Americans, by default, are caught in a see-want-borrow-buy-repay cycle.
The problem is marketers who traditionally appealled to the top 5% of income earners (e.g. Tommy Hillfiger) now direct their marketing efforts to all 100% of households. Whereas 95% of households never knew who Hillfiger was 20 years ago, everybody does does. And now that we see, we want, and borrow (because we're not among the top 5% of income earners) to buy, and repay. The repay part is a kicker. This means working longer hours in a job you may not even like because you have to pay back you $15,000 in credit card debt.
Ms. Schor makes a very well-researched article that explores the different influences that contribute to the desire to purchase. She also includes a discussion of how some people have bucked the trend to more by going less. She calls these folks, like the author above, "downshifters."
As a freshly minted "downshifter," I highly recommend the read.
The article is interesting, but misleading. See, I was unemployed for several weeks and I found the same benefits of having a butt load of free time. I started designing my own site, running, reading more physics books, etc. However, I could not do any of these things without thinking "How am I going to survive without money?" Also, I have learned a couple of things.
For example, I have found out that corporations do not give a damn about their employees when shit hits the fan. Businesses are good to you when they're doing well. If not, the owners will pocket the money and disappear faster than a prom dress. Moreover, I learned how to work the system.
Yes, even humans should go through a social evolution and learn how to survive. Please do not waste your time while you're unemployed and learn how to fight back. As for me, I learned some taxation laws. Specifically, how to write things off taxes, how benefit from college loans and mortgages. Additionally, I signed up for several college courses that I am going to attend for free! That is right, free education. It is very easy to do, especially when you're unemployed or have a small income. Next year I am going to go to UMass and because my last years W2 forms (and taxt returns) scream "This dude is broke!" I am going to get a full ride paid for by the state of Massachusetts. I am going to take a few business and English classes, mainly to improve my weak areas: economics and grammar. I am sure that the rest of you could learn something. Later.
I didn't say that was what is wrong with ALL the unemployed, just this guy. But to make the claim that there are NO jobs, when there are clearly MANY jobs, is foolish.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
America is too big now to be able to control our own govt. Look at what they are doing--cramming in every possible immigrant so as to continue to lower wages and increase real estate values, etc. With so fragmented a populace, how can we possibly fight back against our own govt?
eat shiat and bark at the moon
From his GWB rant: "Both men know that the Clinton presidency was the country's longest and most profound sustained era of growing optimism, wealth, opportunity, and hope!"
What a trivial and superficial inference to make about a 4-year presidency which lies in the midst of much longer business cycles. The success of the USA really has little to do with Democrats or Republicans. Instead, it has to do with the US Constitution providing the essential freedom for people to seek prosperity. All the last several decades of government has succeeded in doing is slowing that progress through obsessive regulation that often trumps our original freedoms in favor of political ends.
Here's a hint: even the Democrats can't save us from GWB and his cronies, because their only differences are the causes they use to front their agendas.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Are the drinks free on a hijacked jet?
I dunno..
This is my sig.
Er, no. You are thinking of the U.S. legal system. In the political system, you need a certain amount of money, but after a that level is reached, it can go either way.
You, Sir, are a troll, and an Anonymous Coward to boot, but I've got some time on my hands, and there are some missunderstandings here that could spread.
First, "democracy" and "republic" are technical terms here. A democracy gives the population and enormous share in saying things. A republic has a limited participation. For example, the U.S. lets you elect judges, something that is unheard of in most of Europe. You can elect police chiefs in some parts of the country, etc., etc. In Europe, only the Swiss come close to have this kind of freedom, and it is true I should have pointed this out.
The best example is the death penalty [for the record: I am against it]. The reason why Europe doesn't have the death penalty while some U.S. states do is not because the Europeans are morally superior, but because they are not allowed any say on the matter. Basically, the governments of France and Germany and Italy are telling the population: We don't care if you want to kill criminals, you ain't going to get it, because we are a republic and you don't get to decide these sort of things. In the U.S., as a democracy, people do get to decide, and in some places they decide they want the death penalty.
The U.S. did in fact start off as a republic, which is why there are a lot of quotes to that effect like the Pledge. For example, the original blueprint for Senate is basically the same model as Germany's Bundesrat today: The states decide who gets to sit. But the U.S. has evolved into a democracy: The members of the U.S. Senate are elected by the people today. Is this a good thing? Good question. Look at California.
Anyway, note that I didn't say that republics are less free than democracies or that the people there have less rights than other countries -- given the laws passed in the U.S. after 9/11, there is no way any an American could say such a thing (a right to privacy, anyone? A trip to Guantanamo?).
What you can do in the U.S. system far better than in any European one I know of is throw the bastards out. Because U.S. politicians are elected as people, if you don't like the guy, he is gone in six years max. Most European politicians are elected via their party; if you want to get rid of them, you have vote for a completely different party. If he is high up in the party, you probably won't even get him out that way as long as the party isn't thrown out of parliament completely. Fat chance. Pity the Europeans: When they watch their news at night, they know that they will probably be seing those same faces for the rest of their lives, and there is not a damn thing they can do against it.
This is what my last line refered to: The population in the U.S. could have a far greater influence on policy than possible in Europe -- if they wanted to, and so they could get a lot changed.
Sadly, Americans don't go to elections that often, and so we end up where we are today.
there's an acronym for that?
Moo
I doubt it. This is /. after all - if you can't bash someone for posting personal thoughts on the web here, where can you? ;)
It is very nice of you to defend Mr. Dvorkin. I agree that black humor is sometimes the best way to deal with the slings and arrows of this life. Dvorkin appears to have a good sense of humor (at least, good for him, which is what really matters), so I expect that he will do fine. The real risk in unemployment is not losing your job, or your money, but rather your life, hope and mind. Some people take it very hard. As long as circumstances can get better, losing a job is only a temporary setback.
I've been there. I spent a year not getting a paycheck, lost my girlfriend, got evicted - the whole nine yards. I have much sympathy for what many people (inside and outside the so-called "tech sector") are going through. I'm sorry things are so bad in Denver right now. It will get better. I was on the leading wave (1999-2000). Now I have a good job with a great boss, and will likely be quiting sometime in the next year to start another business (yes, the boss knows). Maybe I ought to look at Denver...
Oh, and to anyone who is going through the unemployment blues, here are some lessons I learned:
1) Don't take it out on those around you. Your friends and family will stick by you, but it's not their fault and they don't deserve it.
2) Consider a career change. Maybe it's for you, maybe it's not. I was stubborn - I refused to join the "tech sector" even though that's where all the jobs were (I still get a little angry when I hear IT called that - like nuclear fusion research doesn't involve technology). I think I made the right decision for me, but it cost me a year of agony. There are other industries hiring right now. Know any unemployed nurses? If a job is more important to you than doing what you do, follow the jobs.
3) Don't sit and sulk. Make friends with people around you. First, because friends are good, and secondly, because that's likely how you'll be hired. I got my job after mentioning to my barber that I was a physicist. Turned out she had another customer who was hiring physicists...
Except that one is a can of food and the other is a person.
the recession is not Bush's fault, but Clinton's
This is debateable, and it is perhaps neither. But Bush hasn't done a whole lot to help. Giving more money to people who already have alot doesn't create better investment opportunities. And when companies get free money they just increase top management bonuses. Supply side economics is a myth. I was laid off about two years ago. I found a better job within a few months, so I was one of the lucky ones. But I must say that it was hard to believe that the company couldn't afford my $40,000 salary while the CEO was making $600,000 and had taken home $25 million in stock options the previous year. I understand that it is a matter of priorities, but don't tell me they have no choice.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
His bias againts George Bush was just too much to take.
I apologize to all those that are neither liberal arts majors nor use calculators in their graduate study programs. Is calculator use predicative of being an engineering student mostly?
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
According to the Global Rich List the richest 5% in the world have a yearly salary starting at $26,000 and the richest 1% starts at $40k.
If you have a large enough labour pool then you can hire and fire at will. Especially if, through a process of industrialisation, you have gradually streamlined the tasks they do. At a certain point, the individual becomes powerless, you achieve liquidity, and people become a commodity.
It's not a paradox, it's an inevitability, because the people most necessary to power our society are the ones who are going to get commoditized first.
Sorry to sound so cheerless, but let me give you another example of a commodity: a battery. Welcome to The Matrix. Have a nice day.
My last two jobs in the IT sector were so fucking painful that I now (after 3 months of unemployment) am seriously considering either starting my own business in Multimedia (my original foeld) or opening up a restaurant and leaving IT entirely.
Those two jobs had bosses who stupid in the IT sense of the word (both would get into screaming fits of rage when their fucking Outlook or some other POS was quacking again without even trying to listen to the problems involved in whatever technology was the current boo haa). Both bosses were plainly and simply cruel (Being forced in both jobs to do everything from design webpages to fixing MSOffice problems and system admin and doing enormous amounts of overtime and being treated like shit every single fucking day). Both of them used trumped up downright lies to get me fired in the end. I was and am almost completely burned out. There were many times when I just wanted to fucking kill myself and get the fucking agony of having to work for a fucking nazi from 7AM to 9PM every day over. NO social life left, nothing.
FUCK THEM and fuck the capitalist dream that says you're worth fuckall as a person in this world.
I want another job and have the same problems finding one as most of the people here, but I'm simply not prepared to be a modern day cotton picker licking the bosses gangrenous dick anymore.
I'm so glad my employment doesn't depend on presidents or politicians. I have held a job almost continually since I was 13 and I'm now 41. Of course I some times have had to work as a cook or a gas station attendant but no president has ever prevented me from making a living or supporting my family. As for what Al Franken says: If you are listening to him for advise you have much bigger problems than unemployment.
Telecommuting! What about socialization?
Because over 80% of all new small businesses fail in their first 24 months. And they take a frightening amount of capital with them. If you've been unemployed for 2 years, where would you get the money to pour into a new business? How long would you keep pouring money into that business if it was operating in the red?
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
In my last job as a basic computer application instructor at a community college, I saw MANY people who were going back to school at age 50+ to 'learn how to use computers' so they could get a job. That nice nest-egg they thought they could live on disappeared with the stockmarket crash.
It is truely pathetic to see these people who worked most of thier life, saved, invested, did everything right, looking for some menial position to pay the mortgage.
Funny, many of these same people will support GWBush & Co. to the end.
There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
...you insensitive clod!
The article describes, sometimes in painstaking detail (and with a number of information-dense graphs), that this demographic issue is inexorable, and that the most serious problems will be in the skilled job market. Those retiring booomers are going to leave gaps in the job market the size of Meteor Crater, and those of us in Generations X and Y will have some sense of job security again.
The authors provide a list of the jobs that will be highest in demand - and their comments in the text indicate that the shortage of tech workers in the late 1990s was nothing compared to what's coming.
Here's some of the list:
Systems Analyst - approx 60% growth
DBA - approx 65% growth
Network/System Admin - approx 80% growth
Software engineers - between 85-100%
So hang in there.
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law;
if this were ever mandated as law, it would just be another incentive for employers to outsource work to India, China, etc.
"Teachers leave us kids alone
My friend's uncle was homeless and had very little education. While he was sleeping in a homeless shelter, he had a good idea. He busted his butt to make it happen, how he's literally a millionaire.
There is no other place on Earth where poor people have as MANY chances as under a capitalistic society.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Bodywork is another good one. Lots of work, and opportunnity to work for cash under the table. The worse the economy gets, the more work there is, too. I try to learn how to do something completely different every few years. Things that didn't seem to be practical (turbocharging hondas) have lead to things that are practical - much better understanding of control systems and noise tolerant embedded systems.
Networking is really important as well. Most of the jobs I've gotten have been the result of giving talks at shows, publishing papers and code, taking advantage of opportunities to talk to factory owners, you name it. There's nobody who can do a better job selling (or sinking) yourself than you. They've also come from the oddest places - the racing club I am a member of and race under, for example.
Unfortunately, networking and technically minded people seem to mix like oil and water.
..don't panic
Yeah, you're right. Far better to complain that the President (!) isn't creating a job for you...
I agree presidents don't create booms or busts, but as you contend Bush should have softened the blow, then Clinton should have muted the boom.
Also, the bust was absolutely inevitable. When you have a million programmers hired by companies who are guaranteed to go under, there is nothing else that CAN happen.
As for preventing the bone-crushing depths of this recession, this has actually been a relatively mild one for everyone except programmers, which as per my previous analysis, there was no way to prevent that shakeout.
Bottom line, if you think Bush was to blame for the recession, what would you have done differently?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Of course, that supposes that one lives in an area where occasional low stress jobs are available.
I recently moved to DeLand Florida and despite a few dozen "NOW HIRING" signs on various businesses in the area I've been looking for a month and still haven't gotten a job. The last time I went job hunting was 2 years ago and I was employed within a couple of weeks. This time there just don't seem to be any jobs available despite the hiring signs. Oh well.... The disbursement from my 401k should hold me for a few more months. Maybe I'll have something at Target or Walgreens or something by then... But if anyone around is in the area and knows someplaces that actually IS hiring. Let me know!
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Dvorkin, like so many on both ends of the pollitical spectrum, places the blame for his predicament not on his own shoulders, but at the feet of the opposing pollitical party. Get real! 90% of all polliticians give nothing more than token lip service to the plight of the un- or under-employed.
He'll find solutions to his problems much faster if he wakes up and takes responsibility for his career, instead of waiting for some populus pandering pollitico to come rescue him.
"Creativity is allowing ones self to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep" - Scott Adams
It looks like you've never lived in a truly poor country.
Remember that even at $12,000 per year, you are still within the most wealthy 11% of the world.
To people that have never lived outside of the United States, it's incomprehensible how anyone could survive without a three-room apartment, a car that's still under factory warranty, a leather sofa, and all of the pre-made, frozen food you can eat.
A month's supply of rice costs you what, $30? And unless you live in the middle of manhatten or silicon valley and refuse to commute, you *can* find housing for a few hundred per month. It'll be small, cramped, ugly, run-down, and you might have long commutes to work, but you know what? That $350 per month it costs you for rice and a crappy sty of an apartment can be paid for on minimum wage.
To review, that means that if you're (a) willing to work, and (b) financially frugal, you are guaranteed to at least have a roof over your head and some food.
That doesn't sound like much of a life to most of us, but after seeing how truly poor people live, the fact that you're even guaranteed a roof over your head and some rice is actually not that bad.
In fact, I've known people who made *barely* more than minimum wage, and managed to have a decent apartment, a car, a television, take belly-dancing classes, and overall have a pretty decent life.
I've also seen such poverty that if you even had a 20-year old, run-down, beat-up car, that established you firmly in the middle class. And if you had a telephone to boot, that put you in the upper middle class.
Really. Before anyone complains about the quality of life in the United States, they need to go spend a couple of years living the way most of the world lives. I can remember coming back to the United States and feeling greedy and awful just for the fact that I had carpet, for crying out loud.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
1. Capitalism sucks as bad as communism. It just takes a little longer to realise...but you realise it well when you are fired and you can't find a job.
So you like it, then you are fired, then, suddenly, you don't like it. You are a child.
3. Companies sell their products with up to 90% profit, especially those that outsource production. And the profit fills the pockets of their owners.
There is a long line of companies lining up to take down Microsoft, for example. StarOffice/OpenOffice.org is going to be the real killer (multiplatform with open storage formats). So, will you still be bitching when you see a monopoly disected by normal market forces, dropping prices all around to everyone's benefit?
5. The modern way of life is not humane enough. There is not enough time to get in true contact with your own people.
That's because were still hundreds or thousands of years from a truly mature economy. We are still pretty primitive, considering, for example, that so many fundamental diseases are still treated with guesswork (many cancers, auto-immune diseases, mental degeneration, etc.). We are still in an era where captialism has lots of milage left for aggressive growth. One day (in a few thousand years), perhaps there will no longer be room for growth, but, until then, we are not finished.
6. Poor people in India living in a cardbox are happier than average Joe that has a loan and a house to pay and sleeps and wakes up with the anxiety of when the next brick is coming from.
Have you really taken the time to research this one?
7. If you ever realized how good rich people live, a revolution would be started in a minute.
Have you ever known a rich person? 99% of them are normal people with normal day-to-day issues; they just have lots and lots of money for any number of reasons (earned it, inherited it, etc.). These are the people to take on the risks to make your job possible.
(there maybe a few exceptions)
There are a lot of exceptions.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
spare me the "you've never been there, man!! You just don't know!" rant.
Everyone's been stuck in dead-end jobs. Many people have been broke, had to live on noodles, had to move out of their place and in with friends to save on precious, dwindling cash reserves... There's jobs out there if you're willing to swallow a little pride. It may not be what you want, but it's only temporary. It may grate on his I'm-the-computer-elite ethos, but he could even do in-home tech support... hell, advertise in the upscale neighborhoods and fleece those despised computer-dumb yuppies for a fortune... that'd surely assuage his member-of-the-proletariat angst. Even if he stripped his resume and got a job as a tech-support monkey, his vast computer knowledge should shine through in about five minutes... and if he made sure the right people noticed it, he might find himself running the show in no time. It helps to be willing to dial back your expectations in order to get your foot in the door.
He may have to sell his house on the lake and get a cheaper place, which sucks, but is a reasonable thing to do when your income drops. Lots of people's fortunes go up and down... the key is to be able to adapt.
I'm not saying the original poster is a bad person... my comment had more to do with his psychology. I think he's depressed, looking for someone to blame, and generally feeling helpless... and yet, he's the ONLY ONE with the power to change his situation. Admitting that, however, would take away his "I'm a victim" ego defense, and force him to take responsibility for alleviating his own plight. His situation is very common... and so is his reaction to it. He seems like an insightful enough chap, so I expect he'll snap back.
Sometimes holding up a mirror to someone is the best thing you can do.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
I'm a Kansas native, and I can tell you for sure that the sun shines there just like everywhere else. What's this comment about?
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
bitter much?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Exactly. If we could count the number of displaced workers, people who went to college to get a degree in something, now working at some random job just to have a job, I think the numbers would be truly frightening.
I am not unemployed. I am a receptionist, with a BS.
I have to agree with the online games helping to save money. A $15/month subscription fee to save me from being bored and going out to spend $200/week on gadgets and other junk I don't need, is a good investment.
I'll also agree with the idea to keep the television turned off. I quit watching a couple years ago, and the first thing I noticed when I was clear of the stench, was just how bad it had really become.
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
At best, that's a disingenuous statistic. When we hear about someone making twenty bucks a week in Calcutta, we forget that the cost of living is concomitantly lower there. A dollar here ain't worth much. A dollar in Calcutta will support someone in a nontrivial manner.
Hell, think about a job making $50k a year in Nowhere, Flyover State versus the same job in the Bay Area. You can live like a king in a small town for what a shoebox in Manhattan costs.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
"The Surprising Benefits of Not Having a Girlfriend"
* No one complains about your lack of showers! (well, nobody important that is.)
* More money available for important things!
* No risks for pregancy!
* Plenty of room in bed!
* No need for showing your feelings!
First, the economy was in a mild recession before 9/11. The recession began around March 2001, and you'd have to be an idiot or a member of the DNC to actually believe Bush managed to start a recession in 2 months. Your Nasdaq was in steep decline before the inauguration. So Bush must have been such a terrible president that the economy tanked in anticipation of his arrival, huh?
Second, blaming 9/11 on Bush would be idiotic. Also, the economy kept falling from October 2001 to March 2002, when the war was announced, so your timeline doesn't even make sense - the market only recovered from the immediate spike of 9/11, not the consequences. The war also had nothing to do with the economy from your own evidence, as the markets flattened out and started raising soon afterwards continuing up to now. I don't believe it, but if the war had any effect, from your own evidence a rational observer would estimate it to be a positive influence. I claim no correlation.
Your correlation is nonexistent. From your own evidence, things didn't happen when you claim. The bust started before inauguration, and the economy's actually picked up since the war. Naturally, since you're partisan, you'll not blame the bust on annual, fraudulent, and unsustainable 40% annual growth under Clinton (again, from your Nasdaq chart), because that wouldn't support your partisan message.
If you're going to quote those financials, give me months where events correlate to trends, because from what you say, you don't have it. Again, I don't like Bush either, but there's no reason to blame him for things that aren't his fault.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
According to the Department of Labor, here were the unemployment rates for January of the following years:
...
1989: 5.4%
1990: 5.4%
1991: 6.4%
1992: 7.3%
1993: 7.3%
2001: 4.1%
2002: 5.6%
2003: 5.7%
Not a single year of decline. Period.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Being gainfully employed (or at least not hemmoraging too much employed) as a graduate student, the one thing I feel is necesary to add is this:
If you don't like popcorn, ramen noodles are almost as cheap, and come in a variety of fun flavours.
Just wondering, but doesn't the executive branch have more control over the SEC than Congress? Seems to me this is something Bill could have done something about. I could be wrong there, if so scratch that.
Additionally, the biggest responsibility for the economic decline goes to Hugo Chavez, who got Opec to cut supplies in 1999, causing an energy price spike.
No way. First, the economy was far too high then, and some brakes on the economy would have been welcome in 1999, if anything this would have prolonged things. Second, the timing's off - things didn't go south then, but over a year later.
Then when you look at the Republican tendency to reduce rules, and the Bush record on lax enforcement of white collar crime, and his political appointments (Poindexter?!), and the conflicts of interest evident in each one, and add that to the Bush S&L scandal in 1990, Iran-Contra of the 1980's, a pattern emerges.
Wow, that's an irrelevant and mixed bag. Hell, throw in Whitewater while you're at it, I'm sure that had something to do with the economy going south.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
1. Normal geek-level body odor smells like roses compared to my decomposing peer group
2. No more meetings!!!
3. Or spam!
4. Extra-hot chicks enjoy epic challenge of making dead man come.
5. RIAA getting bad publicity from suing me.
6. Have more time to vote repeatedly in Chicago municipal elections.
--If 50,000 people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
> I have time to become intimately familiar with all of the Slashdot memes ...
... the word "meme" is occurring more often every day in posts. I'll admit that my vocabulary is not up to par when compared to many geeks, but I had never heard this word before slashdot. Now it's occurring in every day conversations. So ... a few questions:
I know this is offtopic, but
1) Can a single word become a meme from being (re)introduced into every day vocabulary? (I think the answer is yes - consider the word "Rad" in the 80's, or more hideously the current usage of the word "tight").
2) If a single word can become a meme, does "meme" fit into this category?
3) Has the word "meme" been in common use for decades, and I am just vocabularily challenged?
4) Can you dodge off-topic mods by starting your post with an off-topic disclaimer (disclaimer: this question is very off-topic)?
The gartner group also said that OS/2 would capture 35% of the market by 1994.
Yeah, you're right. Could be they're way low with that 10% estimate - maybe it's more like 20%.
but that's not too helpful
-pyrrho
My old SuSE 6.2 version of linux was desperately out-of-date, and being unemployed, I didn't want to spend even a few dollars on a new distribution. But I did have lots of free time.
.5Gb through a 56K modem.
And a dialup account has no limits on what you can download.
So... each night, my PC would download Gentoo packages, and would then spend the day compiling them. I actually ended up downloading over
Or just cultivate a healthy Counter-Strike (or insert fave RTS/FPS here) addiction and save yourself from having to pay monthly fees :).
Creator of the popular web game Proximity
no doubt, a big mixed bag... but you can't rule blaming someone else out! It might actually be their fault.
-pyrrho
The trouble with the Rat Race is that even if you win, you are still a rat.
Funny that you should mention "finding a niche". I've done all sorts of software over the years, but the one thing that's gotten me hired during the last decade is knowing how to hack out grammars with Yacc/Lex.
DELAND!! That's your problem right there. I moved from Atlanta to just up the road from Deland and I had to commute to either Jacksonville or Orlando for years before I found even a remotely relevant job close by. Submit to the inevitable and get in the mode of commuting 100 miles a day.
If you think that many companies make 90% profits, you obviously don't understand the costs of doing business. Any market where a company can repeatedly make a profit anywhere near that level is a market that will soon be flooded with competition.
Microsoft.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
XML Tools for Mac OS X
Sound like a lot of reasons not to become unemployed are being played up to show up his boss for laying him off.
Spousal closeness is not a good thing in most marriages. Personally the one good thing about being unemployed is being able to do what you want to do all the time instead of doing what someone else wants you to do. If it makes enough money to support life it's even better.
I just got on long term disability due to an auto accident. The policy is what is commonly called an "own occupation" policy, i.e. I have at least two years income before I either (a) get told to find a job I can do from a wheelchair, or (b) I get an extension, i.e. another year of disability pay and rehabilitation (not considered very likely for a computer geek).
The IT profession is a train wreck, my CEO is a clueless PHB, my supervisor is a workplace bully, my users are all morons. I have a golden opportunity in the next 24 months to learn another profession, just as long as I can do it from a wheelchair. What should I learn to do? What's a good job field for us mildly autistic ex-geeks on wheels?
>Do a PhD!
Do you realize how much it *costs* to do that?
How long it takes?
That you still have to house, feed, and clothe yourself? And that it's entirely possible to fail? Even if you do get into a program, you have to stay there, which means turning down any job opportunities outside where your university is?
(For me, that last one is the biggest challenge).
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I was laid off October 1st last year. My wife and I had our first kid on July 3rd of this year. In retrospect, perhaps I should have spent that October 1st evening polishing up ye olde resume...
Peter
BTW, the job title of househusband isn't nearly as bad as I expected.
Downsize DC Today!
Not having a job means you have the time to do things for yourself instead of your employer.
End of article. What amazing insight. Move along.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
A nation of waitresses and waiters,
Will you fix their martinis,
Will you stand still for it,
Will you take to the hills
2)Take over the emerging Chinese domestic market across the board.
3)Make huge cash over there as their economy booms.
4)Make a second wave of huge cash after their exchange rate skyrockets.
5)Hire "competent" managers from here and send them to work all over your company right before selling it to assure it's slow snowballing destruction (slow so the effects won't be associated with you).
6)Take all your money back here.
7)Buy everything.
8)Rewrite the rules so that the economy doesn't suck in this way, and can't ever again.
It wouldn't get you filtered out immediately, but it would be a thing we'd watch for. Basically it would add subtle tests to your interview to see if you would focus on our problems or spend your nights forgetting our issues and coming to work thinking about other things. Answer every question I ask with an example from the same open source project you spent 35 hours working on last we and you're not getting the job. We don't need people with confused priorities who may overwork themselves in their off hours. I'd feel a lot better if I knew you weren't going to work on any such projects during your employment with us. Putting it down as historical achievements is better than a currently active one, but not much. For us, it would earn you nothing, and could be used against you. Even if you do it, leave it off your resume if you have anything else.
Your point about meeting difficult deadlines in open source is not a good one either and I wouldn't mention that in an interview at my company. I don't want there to be two deadlines next Friday, one for my project and one for your open source project. It's not a competition I want to have. You're hired to make my deadlines in preference to all others.
Also, if you hijack my interview to get me involved in the design and implementation of your personal pet project, I will feel justified in not hiring you as you're already demonstrating what I feared. I like people who can get involved. I don't like people that are already involved in the wrong thing.
Worst of all, I'm a coder, not an hr person. I care because if you drop the ball because you needed to work on an external project (paid or not) then I'll be the one picking it up for you in my off-hours. Hell, if I wanted to code in my off-hours I'd rather take up a cool open source project of my own than do your work for you.
Haven't had cable TV in 4 years. Haven't missed it. Actually believe my quality of life went _up_. Apparently a lot of people spent those 4 years watching something called "Survivor" and it's 800 clones. Was it worth it? Doesn't sound like it.
Making a comparatively huge wage for years, then spending a while unemployed before making another (comparatively) huge wage
So you are in the 5% that makes a huge wage ? what about the rest ?
is much better than being forced to work in a tedious, menial, or back-breaking job for your whole life with no hope of ever escaping abject poverty.
But I did not say Communism is better. I said that in the long run, Capitalism is as bad as Communism. Since you don't seem to understand anything, let me explain it to you:
If that isn't clear to you, maybe you could use a stint in a poor country to help you see the real world. If you've never lived outside of the U.S., you've never seen what a hard life really is
I am living outside the US. But I have lived in the UK for a year. I am in a position to judge clearer than you the benefits of a mixed system, where Capitalism is not so aggressive. I can go to work and be really open to people, much more than when in US. In the 8 hours that I work, I can steal a couple of hours once in a while and do nothing (because I am tired!!!), and I know that my colleague will not say it to the boss, because he is not an antagonist to me!!! The company can't fire me so easily without paying me some amount of money!!! and if I am fired, I don't have to go through the agony of not having health care!!!
Is it just coincidence that the poor people in the US are millions ? is it just a coincidence that you are a trigger-happy society ? which country has the most gun-related incidents ? which country has the highest rates in criminality ? is it a coincidence that more than 1 million people have been added to the class of poor people in the last year ? is it a coincidence that after the .net fiasco, there were huge scandals like Enron ? what did these
managers do ? they stole money!!!
If you think that many companies make 90% profits, you obviously don't understand the costs of doing business. Any market where a company can repeatedly make a profit anywhere near that level is a market that will soon be flooded with competition. For a company to make actual profits even in the very low double-digits is very, very good
But you don't understand that it's the production cost that allows this situation to rise, not the actual profit!!! For example, the pair of Air Jordans that one wears and cost you 100 bucks cost 5 bucks for Nike to make in a sweat shop!!! And that's true for other companies as well, like Reebok, Spalding etc... with asians working 16 hours in a day, with wages like 1 dollar, at shitty places, without proper air conditioning....yeah, this type of Capitalism is really good!!! wake up, buddy...
If you've ever lived in a truly poor nation, you'd realize that you, by virtue of the fact that you're even posting on Slashdot, are likely within the wealthiest 5% of the entire world. The lifestyle accorded to an American working for minimum wage is literally an impossible dream to hundreds of millions of people.
This is because of the following reasons:
All I want at age 65 is a front porch and a rocking chair. Retirement is only for the super-rich - do not kid yourself. I sure want be mountain climbing or kayaking the rapids at retirement age
Sorry to inform you, but a front porch and a rocking chair are what you get if you DO save for retirement!
I don't think we can blame the stock market crash on W and his minions, but we CAN blame him for the non-recovery, the lack of universal healthcare, the unwillingness of the administration to help anyone but the rich, the exploitation and destruction of the natural environment, the squandering of our tax dollars on trumped up wars, and the cancellation of our constitutional rights.
For the hundreds of billions Bush and Company have spent (and will spend) re-building Iraq we could have had a self-sustaining universal healthcare program for every man, woman and child in this country. Now THAT would have helped the unemployed and middle class. Unfortunately for the rest of us, Mr. Bush and Company already have the best of the best in health insurance so do not see the need to spend that money. I can guarantee that Iraq will have universal healthcare for its citizens long before Americans get it. How ironic.
I agree with you about the strange voting patterns in the country. It makes my head hurt to try and understand why so many blue-collar working people across the country support a political party that is dedicated to giving them less and less. I can understand the rich supporting Bush, but the rank and file!?
How in the world have the Republicans managed to convince so many people into believing that patriotism means supporting the Republican party and anyone who doesn't agree wth them is not patriotic - or worse, a traitor?
money goes where money is; eventually, only a few will have all the money; we are not far off from this situation.
Actually, historically, the reason that capitalism works is because advancement comes from the bottom. All throughout the development of nations, it's been the workers that have developped all of the advancements: Precisely because the workers can (and do) make money by doing so.
Saying that in the long run, communism is no worse than capitalism is completely wrong. Both living conditions AND humanitarian values are much better under a capitalistic republic. If you disagree, I'd like you to tell me of a communistic society where humanitarian values are as good as they are in the U.S..
Those sweatshops in Thailand usually pay the workers better and treat them better than other jobs in their country. They bring an influx of money to local economies that otherwise would remain stagnant. It helps both us and them.
US and EU do not allow the cheap agricultural products of Africa and other areas to enter their markets!!! they actually impose restrictions, in order to promote their own products!!! how is that for a 'free' market ?
By dropping trade barriers, it would help both our countries and theirs. However, then people would complain that we were taking advantage of those poor, exploited nations, making them do our dirty work for pennies on the dollar, despite the fact that it would be HELPING them.
By the way, if you'd like a better idea of WHY most African nations are so dirt poor, read "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations". Some of the largest reasons have probably never even occurred to you.
Point to me one poor person that got rich (or even relatively wealthy) by doing an honest job and being honest for the whole of his/her
life.
My friend's relative was living in a homeless shelter, completely homeless, and not very well educated. This was back in the early 80's, if I recall. Do you remember how Izod shirts were so popular? He had an idea to make little embroidered thingies like the lizard logos on Izods, and sell them to people who make their own clothes - helping them dress their kids stylishly at a much lower price.
He hustled his butt off, got some backing, and sold enough of them to make himelf a millionaire. Whether he's remained honest the rest of his life, I don't know, but the fact remains that he made himself a millionaire through honest means.
Precisely because Capitalism works by allowing advancement from the bottom, the lower and middle classes are better off than they are under any other form of government. Under an idealistic socialism, the very lowest classes *could* be better off than under capitalism, but so far, nobody has been able to come up with anything even resembling an ideal socialism on any significant scale, and never will be.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
"Line Item Veto"
I think the whole point is that work in IT is so hard to find that a research degree is just about the only sure way of making sure you dont end up as "data entry" in a law firm (or worse). besides...dunno what you mean about the cost...noone does a phd without a full scholarship and these are worth pretty much the same as a starting engineers salary would be after tax (depending on the level of your supervisor's interactions with industry)
Actually, historically, the reason that capitalism works is because advancement comes from the bottom. All throughout the development of nations, it's been the workers that have developped all of the advancements: Precisely because the workers can (and do) make money by doing so
Yeah, we can really see that now: 5% of the population owns 90% of wealth.
Both living conditions AND humanitarian values are much better under a capitalistic republic. If you disagree, I'd like you to tell me of a communistic society where humanitarian values are as good as they are in the U.S
Yeah, that's why when you faint in a public place, in a big city, no one cares to help you. It's because of these humanetarian values. That's why you have the largest percentage of rape, murder and steal.
Those sweatshops in Thailand usually pay the workers better and treat them better than other jobs in their country. They bring an influx of money to local economies that otherwise would remain stagnant. It helps both us and them
What a hypocrisy!!! that's a lie. I can't imagine you just said sweatshops are good for them. I can't see how a US or EU citizen could ever accept working under such conditions...why should a Thailand one accept it ? is he/she a lesser human ? The only people that are helped by this situation is each corporation's executives as they rub their hands with glee because they have found the goose that lays the golden eggs.
However, then people would complain that we were taking advantage of those poor, exploited nations, making them do our dirty work for pennies on the dollar, despite the fact that it would be HELPING them
No one would say that. By dropping the trade barriers, they would at last sell their products and get money. As they get money, their initially very low prices will rise. That's the true free market, not the one we currently have.
By the way, if you'd like a better idea of WHY most African nations are so dirt poor, read The Wealth and Poverty of Nations. Some of the largest reasons have probably never even occurred to you
Shhh...don't tell me it is not the exploitation by Europeans and Americans!!! don't tell me it is not that we, white people, have gone over their with guns and taken from them their gold and diamonds, exploited their land and their natural resources, forced them to live in ghettos even in their own countries, sold arms to them, and generally divide and conquer!!!
By the way, mr David Landes tells us in that book that poor countries failed to adapt to the industrial revolution due to cultural traits!!! that's simply not true, because the poor countries don't lack culture, they simply have a different form of culture!!! The only reason we are richer is because we have aggresively exploited our environments.
Have in mind that the amount of money each country has is always equal to the value of gold in its treasury; that's why a country is not allowed to print more money than that value. But how did this gold get there in the first place ? maybe by looting other countries ?
He hustled his butt off, got some backing, and sold enough of them to make himelf a millionaire
The only people that get rich under capitalism is those that trade things, i.e. get materials, process it, and then sell the goods to others. The average Joe is poor. Most of us average Joes don't even own a piece of land, for Christ's sake...don't even have our own house!!!
Yeah, we can really see that now: 5% of the population owns 90% of wealth.
I don't think you'll find a society where that is NOT true. However, even the POOR people in the US live better than the great majority of the rest of the world. No matter how you slice it, that alone says something good about our country.
That's why you have the largest percentage of rape, murder and steal.
We don't. Not at all. There are places all over the world that make the U.S.'s crime rates look like nothing.
I can't see how a US or EU citizen could ever accept working under such conditions...why should a Thailand one accept it ? is he/she a lesser human ?
Why would a Thai person accept it? Because his alternatives are worse. I'm not in any sense saying that I wouldn't like them to make more money, but no matter how much emotion or self-righteousness you put on it, the facts remain: Those sweatshops do provide a better living more those people than they could otherwise obtain, and the influx of money helps the local economy.
Now, if I ran one of those sweatshops, I could not in good conscience pay them that little. But, I still can't argue the fact that the people are better off than they would be without the sweatshops.
Here's a little wakeup call for you: If you think the treatment those people suffer in the sweatshops is bad, you should see how much worse the locally owned shops treat them.
Shhh...don't tell me it is not the exploitation by Europeans and Americans!!! don't tell me it is not that we, white people, have gone over their with guns and taken from them their gold and diamonds, exploited their land and their natural resources, forced them to live in ghettos even in their own countries, sold arms to them, and generally divide and conquer!!!
If you've read the book, you've seen that it's because of a combination of many factors. You've also seen that Whites and Europeans weren't the only ones over there oppressing, killing, and enslaving, the Arabic nations were doing that long before us.
By the way, mr David Landes tells us in that book that poor countries failed to adapt to the industrial revolution due to cultural traits!!! that's simply not true, because the poor countries don't lack culture, they simply have a different form of culture!!! The only reason we are richer is because we have aggresively exploited our environments.
You seem to have either not read that book, or not understood it. Mr. Landes never once said that they did not have culture, or that they had less culture, only that cultural traits that they DID have prevented some countries from adapting. The same thing happens today, even on a personal level.
The only people that get rich under capitalism is those that trade things, i.e. get materials, process it, and then sell the goods to others
How else do you want people to get rich?
The average Joe is poor. Most of us average Joes don't even own a piece of land, for Christ's sake...don't even have our own house!!!
The guy I knew that got rich didn't own a single thing. Owning a house is not a prerequisite to getting rich. And guess what: MOST of the world would be willing to slit your throat to live the way even a poor person in the U.S. lives.
If you don't believe that, then you should spend some time living with truly poor people. I don't know where you're from, but it sounds like you've never spent any time outside of a wealthy, industrialized nation.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
The can of food is made by people. The corporation employing those people is funded by people. It makes exactly as much sense to continue employing an expensive worker as it does to continute shopping at an expensive store, or purchasing an expensive product.
A can of food does not have a family to support. Though I agree with your assesment, I don't like to reduce people to producers or resources. I think it is detrimental to us as people and as a society. I have observed that business' overarching concern is to it's immediate bottom line and it bums me out. I guess thi si what makes me a damn liberal. Just my emotional $0.02.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Full scholarship. Right. These are the people who act like giving you $1500.00 is some sort of leg up.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
However, I am very unlikely to do more than take a cursory glance at your open source code itself. If it looks like the language I'll believe that you've used it at least at a modest level. I don't expect to try to prove any more than you've seen the language before in an interview process. Ultimately, if you can't code and code well, you won't last 4 weeks. It's not that painful for the company, and it doesn't happen that often.
Also, I structure my interview process to discover whether a candidate has coded before through other means. You can't count on everyone bringing code samples. I guess all I'm saying is that although theoretically it gives me the possibility of looking more in-depth into the exact level of your programming abilities, in practice I won't be doing that anyway.
In my case, the total time I spend considering an applicant amounts to around 3 hours while enduring constant distractions. That includes reading the resume, preparing for the interview, doing the interview (usually an hour), reviewing cursory information like code samples, and discussing the attributes of the candidate with others involved in the hiring process.
I am very busy, and HR tasks don't even make my top 10 list of responsibilities. My projects were months behind before we started working on them. Spending half a day finding and reviewing someone's code is usually not the best use of my time. Especially when all it tells me is that the person can code.
I care very little whether the code is brilliant or not. In fact, I see that thought process as undesirable. I don't want brilliant code. I want cost-effective sustainable code that does the job well and has few problems. Perhaps you mean the same thing and I'm misinterpreting your statement. However, there is a tendency for coders to think complex and cool is somehow better. It's more fun perhaps. But generally it's less stable, and more difficult for other programmers to maintain or alter. It also usually costs more in time, effort and problems than something straightforward. Also, a focus on "brilliant coding" sounds a lot like ignoring the social aspects of programming. It makes it sound like if you can live in a closet and put out "brilliantly complex code" without interacting with team members, that is somehow okay. Team players and good personalities capable of handling stress well are far more important than the quality of your code. Poor coding quality can usually be improved with process (design and code reviews, coding standards), and even if not we'll just ensure that the tasks you're given are tasks where that doesn't matter so much. Core coding requiring higher quality will be redirected to others if it's a problem for you.
Then again. We are a business software type of shop. We aren't trying to break large numbers of technical barriers (except perhaps volume processing). Perhaps "brilliance" is far more valuable in a place where you're inventing something that "can't be done". Take my comments as not representing everything that's out there for sure. It helps if you understand the environment you're applying to. Business application development is a very bottom line kind of business. Results are rarely enough. If you don't have predictable, verifiable milestones along the way, managers start pissing themselves. "Brilliant coding" rarely produces such milestones on regular intervals.
That's my take anyway.
I'm doing OK myself. I still have lots of savings and am getting unemployment. I'm still buying the occational CD and DVD. It's been a nice summer.
OTOH I'm getting really sick of daytime TV. I don't have cable, and don't want it. I do eventually want to get a job.
I need to do more reading and improving my skills.
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Good point. They should vote Liberterian.
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