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McDonald's Billion-Song iTunes Giveaway
camperslo writes "The New York Post online
has this story.
"Less than a month after Pepsi announced a blockbuster deal to give away 100 million downloads from Apple's iTunes music service to its customers, McDonald's is close to a announcing a much bigger deal"." No matter what you think of iTunes, this is tremendous publicity for music on demand services in general. If the public gets a taste for it, this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD.
infect the young with targeted marketing? Britney Spears in your happy meal? This is a great day for spreading musical mediocrity in America. Create a boy band and then market it via McDonald's!
Internet shopping is becoming really widespread. If the public gets a taste for it, this could be the end of malls.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Do you want iFries with that?
this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD.
...but what if you like the audio CD? what if you prefer lossless music, with coverart, booklet and printed media you can hold in your hand?
Mike
-I'd like a #2 with a Diet Coke... Supersize and 2 iTunes tracks please.
-That'll be $4.59 for the meal, and $2.00 for the music, please drive-thru.
-Sweeeet!
A spokesperson for Apple declined comment...
-T
Kazaa, LimeWire, et al. have long had the billion song download giveaway.
sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
McDonalds food has no taste....
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
I'm not saying this isn't going through. I'd be very happy if it did. I'm just saying that having the NY Post as the sole source of your business news piece isn't confidence inspiring.
Is retrieving your songs going to require signing up for the service? Which includes credit card information. Also what if then the redemption goes wrong (you entere a code wrong/etc..) and you have millions of people getting billed for songs they thought were going to be free? Giveaways like this serve to increase a user-base out of which many will never return.
"this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD." ...about anyone else but I don't want the audio CD to go away. I'm quite happy with the CD and if I want to put music on my computer I'll rip it myself. My computer is not in the same room where I would notmally play CDs when entertaining anyway.
um, a code & Url on your receipt, that to use allows ronald & co to get your name and address?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Available immediately, just login to Kazaa.
The iMac will now be re-released in a larger size to be known as the Big iMac.
McDonalds has been giving away a lot of stuff lately. Right now on fries they're giving out $1 coupons (stackable!) for Best Buy. My love for electronics is going to make me fat.
I guess that's as close as Mc Donalds will get to selling an Apple.
-Ed I don't eat meat, but I'd go hunting with a paintball gun.
OH god!
I can't bring myself to read the article.
When the page loaded, that face looked at me and I just had to run away.
Please no more scarry plastic figures being PR persons. Seriously, I'm scared of Ronald and haven't sat in his lap since I was like 6.
-The Grumpy Child.
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
How's that?
I like my CDs. I like being able to take something home from the store, and having something in my hand in case my computer crashes.
It's nice that iTunes is getting publicity-- it's a great service, it really is. But I don't want the CD format to die, and I don't think most consumers do, either.
The advantage of iTunes is choice beyond the traditional ways of buying music. What makes the online music phenomenon nice is the flexibility, not simply the elimination of physical media.
Since Coke is sold at McDonalds instead of Pepsi I wonder if Apple was hoping to get both Coke and Pepsi but couldn't so they went with the next best thing, McDonalds. This is good since I hate Pepsi but eat at McDonalds at least once a week.
Giving implies that you no longer have what you gave away. I can give away a banana, and no longer have it. Information is copied, not given. The only thing that could be said to be given here is bandwidth.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
This is just one reason why iTunes will likely kick the ass of its competitors for the Windows market--name one other player that has a promo even a tenth as big as this one. Apple is playing hardball, and there aren't many companies out there that can compete with an Apple/McDonald's combination, to say nothing of their partnership with AOL...
Does anyone know how the giveaway would work? Would the customer be given a selection of maybe 5 or 6 (All lousy) songs; or would it be some form of a certificate for 1 or 2 songs of your choice?
If I can download songs from iTunes for free, why would I use pirated file sharing?
Too bad that has no reflection at all on whether I would pay for songs.
This is good. Anything of this size and promotes on-line music trading makes the position of the luddites in RIAA/MPAA weaker.
The owls are not what they seem
If you buy a billion songs, you probably get a significant discount, but still, how much is Micky D's give to Apple? Even half a billion dollars would be a huge deal for Apple. Good thing I have that stock...
====
Crudely Drawn Games
this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD
I really hope not! At least with CD's I can still rip to whatever audio format I prefer, in whatever quality level I wan't. Can't do what with AAC files. (Well you could, but transcoding music can degrade the quality quite a bit)
It's also nice having something real, instead of a file that you may or may not own. Or worse, can disappear or become unplayable for who knows what reason they'd cook up.
It featured the Hamburglar stealing songs from the internet.
Anyone happen to know? I haven't seen a clear description of the Pepsi promotion, and I assume the McDonald's one will be similar.
:(
1. You get whatever song they give you. I don't quite see this doing much for the service.. yay, my 15th copy of the latest Britnet single.
2. You get "a song" off iTMS. Any song you like. Just redeem and download. That'd be way cooler, but hell, I can buy a bottle of Pepsi for less than 99 cents US, so I'd be getting as much music as I could drink Pepsi for free. And raiding recycling bins? I could easily pull 2-300 songs a week from campus alone.
Anyone have any further information?
Of course, this is a moot point for me, as iTMS isn't available in Canada anyway
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
You generalized this to good publicity for all music download services?
Are you guys backpedalling on your shilling for Apple? You normally can't even post a portable player story without labelling it a "(not as good) copy of iPod" or a music service story without "I'm still using iTunes."
No advertising, so this must be the MYSTERY SPONSORED STORY OF THE DAY(TM). Will Apple ask for their money back because you didn't trash Napster, MMJB, or Microsoft?
Maybe they want people to download the music while in the restaurant using the wi-fi networks they were piloting? Might as well supersize that meal so you have something to do while downloading the songs.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
Would you like to super-size your meal to add the full length album??
Wouldnt you like to be a pepper too?
Since commercial music has about the same amount of artistic nutrients and artery clogging fudge as a big mac and a pepsi.
That was all part of the version 2.0 ITMS that was released with the Windows version. I'm assuming that these give-aways would be of the gift certificate form.
You can pick new-skool hits like "I'm lovin' it" and "We love to see you smile," or go back to the old days with "At McDonald's, we do it all for you," "Keep your eyes on your fries," and "Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun."
Perhaps Coca-Cola will get in on the deal? "Ain't nothing but the real thing," "Coke is it!," "I'd like to teach the world to sing" and of course "Always Coca-Cola" are big hits in the beverage world.
sulli
RTFJ.
It seems like not too long ago, every time you'd see mention of apple in the press, they were called "beleaguered". It became kind of a running joke on Mac sites. Well, now we're once again seeing "Apple" and "beleaguered" in the same sentence, but in a good way. I think I'm going to start referring to them as "the beleaguered RIAA" from now on :-)... with any luck, the MPAA and SCO will soon join their ranks.
.sig: file not found
Don't get me wrong, I'm as repulsed as much as the next vegetarian by McDonalds and everything they stand for, but if the iTunes promotion reduces the usage of Microsoft's WMA format I'm all for it.
I'm sure Jobs felt a little queasy when the marketing dept. put the deal on the table, but at the end of the day it's a means to an end.
Besides. it's not about selling burgers, it's about selling Apple.
How many pounds of additional human body fat does one billion iTunes worth of McDonald's food equate to? How many heart attacks?
I think I'd be better off sticking with downloading MP3s wherever I can find them.
The record companies don't care how you get it, they just care that their cut from the sale gets to them.
McDonald's pays Apple 99 cents. Apple pays some RIAA peon 35 cents (and doesn't have to pay the ~30 cent credit card fee). RIAA doesn't care. It obviously isn't thinking of long-term improvement of distribution models, one that doesn't treat the consumer like a criminal (how long until us slashdotters have a mass penetentiary constructed for us!).
Both Pepsi and McDonald's are paying Apple's retail price of 99 cents per song, sources say.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
Is it just me or does that pic of Ronald just scare the hell outta U :)
Heeeeeere's Ronald!
Fahrenheit 451, he's got cameras for eyes
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
You don't seriously believe that the artists see anything from songs given away for promotional purposes, do you?!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Sizes of the offers don't really matter, whats important is news of the service reaching the masses. If enough people who *arn't using* P2P can download enough goodies to form a nice Xmas gift (like label images), we could see a new market shift. I sure would like to give away a few discs for the holiday season (actually I'd love to give iTunes credit), but just handing someone a CD-R with my sloppy sharpie writing on it isn't that great.
However, without something like that, the only change in market is connected to the sales of PCs and bandwidth to new people. Converting P2P to iTunes may be happening, but I think it's going to be slow.
I will still continue to collect classical music CDs. There's a lot to be read and seen on the covers, and I enjoy the act of chosing the CD I want to listen to and then flipping it in the CD player.
I am sure I belong to a minority, but that doesn't mean this minority is a market that the music industry would want to ignore. Heck, just bein a lover of classical music puts me in a VERY small minority, and yet, I still can chose among hundreds of thousands of titles. I don't see hard drive storage of MP3 files replacing all the music media in the world. Not in my lifetime anyway.
Sigged!
Excellent! I hope this translates into the kind of momentum that makes iTunes so large that music companies would rather spend their time selling their wares through iTunes rather than influence its license structure.
If you hadn't heard, Sony and BMG are merging their music businesses. I am sure it's a move to consolidate resources in an effort to address a rapidly-changing business dynamic. I wasn't looking forward to seeing such large music distributors trying to impose their will on iTunes.
My sigs always suck.
How am I to keep up this buff I/T professional 50+ inch waist with a music download? Keep the music and GIVE US FREE FRIES!!
I think they need to super-size those sleek silhouettes they use in their Ad campaigns to accurately reflect the McDonalds demographic. I thought apple was all about high style. McDonalds is anything but.
Now, I dont' know exactly how it'll work, but here's my guess. There will probably be a 'redeme free songs' on the iTunes MS page, where you will enter a code for the song. You'll need to set up an account, but it dosn't require you to give credit card info. My guess is that it'll be just like how allowances are done, where they'll give you a credit towards one song to download and McDs will pay for the rest.
Maybe the middle of the end or perhaps the upper middle of the end, but definitely not the beginning.
90% of everything is crap. Also, crap is relative.
I'll have a Happy Meal with my free iTunes.
McDonald's/iTunes: No Deal To Announce, Company Says
t ml
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/031106/1251001388_1.h
But because not all customers will take advantage of the offer, McDonald's actual spending on the campaign will probably be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Something tells me that Apple will find a way to make the 1 billion from McDonalds even if people don't take advantage of the offer.
[Yeah, yeah, I know, just moderate me down as a troll or flamebait already, I don't care, and it still doesn't change the fact that people want to see their names in print that they're willing to post things that show they're being lazy and/or ignorant]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
If you're going to eat all of those fries, why not just splurge, and make it a regular coke (Fat Ass).
You know, after eating at McDonalds, I think I would want to go listen to the song Constipation Blues, by Screamin' Jay Hawkins... Too bad it's not yet offered on the iTunes Music Store. :^)
Does anyone else find it strange that Apple and McDonalds sell Big Macs (albeit in different form factors), and have announced a deal together?
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
That KFG must be for:
Kentucky Fried GEEK.
What a karmic-horic attempt at being "funny."
har har har !
This isn't confirmed and, in fact, McDonald's denies this rumor.
Besides, who is to say that downloadable music would replace CDs? We still have radio
"this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD."
It won't be. All of us with taste will continue buy quality.
Maybe the audio CD will die someday, when a better medium comes out, but the alblum will not die in the forseeable future.
For Apple at least is that apparently both Pepsi and McDonald's are to be paying full price for the songs. Now I don't fully believe this, I can't believe that these corps won't cut a deal because of the huge co-marketing potential and I'd expect both these two companies to play hardball at the negotiating table. However, if it is true, assuming that only 20% of the songs are redeemed, that's an awful lot of 99 for apple, even if their cut is pretty small.
MacMinute notes a statement from McDonald's regarding today's rumor about the McDonald's and iTunes giveaway.
According to McDonalds, "There are no agreements to announce, so anything else is pure speculation."
McDonald's goes on to say that they are continuing to pursue "bold new initiatives in the areas of music, sports, fashion and entertainment" and that news can be expected in the coming weeks to months.
is selling these songs costs so little, the can give away a billion downloads, but they still charge $1 a song. Could you imagine them giving away 10 million albums on CD?
I was hoping American consumers wouldn't stand for that ridiculous price point. Maybe once the novelty wears off, sales'll slow down and prices will follow. Seeing as how everyone's using $1 as a price point I'm not gonna hold my breath for competition to lower prices.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
to get hold of when they win their lawsuit against Apple for stealing their name..
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
You do!
Ain't socialism great? There's no level of personal responsibility low enough that the masses can't be made to make up for...
Bring on Hillary-care! Vote Democrat!
Getting those worthless Best Buy bucks in the monopoly contest, were gonna get even more worthless song coupons! What a wonderful way to avoid giving away prizes people might actually want at a restaurant, LIKE FOOD.
*There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape em off Jim!*
For people who like music, like myself, and have a fair bit of money invested in a stereo setup, we want lossless music formats. A mp3 doesn't cut it. Just what I want to do, play a crap 128K mp3 through my Hafler Amp and B&W speakers. CD may very well die at the hands of DVD-A/SACD, but not at the hands of online music distribution.
not only can people sue MccyD's for making them fat and obese, they can now sue them for hearing loss!!
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
According to this article, McDonald's is denying the rumor by saying "There are no agreements to announce, so anything else is pure speculation."
In Spring, 2004, there you are. You just picked up a case of Pepsi this past weekend and are eating at Mickey D's for lunch a couple of days that week...
Now you suddenly have six or seven of the iTunes giveaways. You go, check it out and find a few songs you want off, let's say, OutKast's new album. Then you go and check Amazon or Best Buy and think "Hey! With these freebies, I can get this album for 1/2 off what I would spend at the store!"
Then you're hooked.
The iTunes store is addictive - let me tell you. I've been very controlled on there and I've bought over $60 worth of music since it was unveiled for the Mac. I know others who have spent over $500 on music from there.
So, yes, you get people to pay for music by giving them a freebie. Who doesn't do that? You get the new Gillette razor in the mail, you get samples at the super market, your dealer gives you a free nickel bag... ;)
There always seems to be Disney related promotions on Happy Meals, and McDonalds advertised heavily on ABC's "The Wonderful World of Disney", and isn't ABC owned by Disney?
And as the WB's been doing the whole TV / music advertising (with their whole 'this episode featured songs from...' bit at the end of shows), it was only a natural progression.
But I think that you're thinking too small -- I don't think McDonalds would get involved with something as small as a single band....maybe a whole record label, but they'd have to find a band that would have a strong enough appeal to interest a significant number of their established audience.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
The nice thing about that is there would be plenty of work for delivery people if everyone in the country went to online shopping. They can't outsource that to some far off country easly.
No matter how you look at it, it's jobs to make up for the mall loss and maybe then some. Granted everyone doing online shopping is a bit far fetched, but it's still possible. Another good thing about it is that it's healthy work in that your always moving and excersizing.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
1 in 3 means 2$ in value per sixpack
I guess McD's was so heart broken about all those poor users deleting their music files
:o(.
They just had to step in and lend a hand. Perhaps this is a new direction for the Ronald McDonald House Charity, giving back to all the poor soles who one way or another lost their music
Where does the question of 2 $ come in?
McDonald's Billion-Song iTunes Giveaway.Bush is on fire and its not good for my lungs.
Must be a similar feeling for people who troll malls looking for clothes.
But there is just that rewarding sensation of flipping through rows of discs, checking out cover art, finding artists had released albums you hadn't known about, maybe something you forgot about but it shows up and piques your interest.
An HTML form field waiting for input or a list of the top 20 downloads has never given me such satisfaction.
What is music when you despise all sound?
He was being sarcastic.
If this was Burger King, I'd put more weight to this story. Expect an official rebuttal sometime today...
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
I seem to recall some jaded audiophiles griping about how limited digital sound was... ;)
Looks like the artists are going to get their usual cut in this "give away". Brittney will have plenty of cash for mascara--Eminem will have plenty of money for white t-shirts.
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
This is good for the 'dealer'. Pepsi, McD and Apple all make out like bandits. Pepsi & McD's sells more soda & fries, Apple gets a lot of new iTunes clients out there, with some to buy for more music later on.
Get em hooked early.
Both Pepsi and McDonald's are paying Apple's retail price of 99 cents per song, sources say. And McDonald's has arranged to buy up to a billion songs to meet customer demand.
Uh... that's like 10x the amount of money they spend on the burger itself. I wish they'd just give me better food.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
You are inventing restrictions of the giveaway with no basis in fact. You make a statement about how you "doubt they are going to be kind enough to give away just ANY free download." You then use that statement to back up your belief that "they are already entered talks with various record labels about which bands will get pushed." Why spread FUD?
The previous arrangement with Pepsi lets you download whatever you want. Apple has stated repeatedly that they want to give all labels equal exposure (as in you can't buy better placement) in the Music Store.
t'nera semordnilap
'Member when McDs used to hail the number of burgers sold? Maybe this is a nostalgic tie-in....
I'd wait for confirmation before getting all excited about this. Isn't the NY Post the paper that printed an editorial congratulating the Red Sox on beating the Yankees in the ALCS? Perhaps it's really Burger King that's giving out Hillary Rosen action figures instead...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
I think you're right. A mean, a BILLION with a "B" songs. I don't think you can find a billion people who would want to hear Britney Spears. If their promo is limited to a handfull of pop bands, I don't think it would go very far.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
only wants to burn down the rainforest so they can build fields of COWS
I wish they would burn down the rainforest to build thousands of super speedways and dragstrips.
That would be cool.
How timely. I finely got around to reading Fast Food Nation, and I just finished the chapter on marketing alliances.
Here, we see that Apple has learned the following lesson:
If you make your product available to the general public, and not just a close niche of (ultra)loyal customers, you can profit.
The question is, can they apply this lesson to other products like, say, computers?
This side up.
Unless you can touch, feel, smell the interet this will never happen. The mall is a place where people meet, relax window shop. THough I agree the person who knows what he or she wants will purchase stuff on the web. The teenager who wants a new set of capris will always liek teh option of trying them on seeing how they look and being critiqued by there friend and the cute guy who works there.
According to Dutch news, DVD sales have exceeded CD-Audio sales this year.
One popular Dutch artist is actually going to stop putting his music on CD, going DVD-only. (only returning to CD if DVD sales, against expectancy, aren't high enough)
There's several reasons for this
- DVDs cost about as much as DVD-audios here
- You get a LOT more value for money (various performances, videos, interviews, etc.)
- They think it's a little bump in the way of piracy.
The latter, as far as the music goes, is of course pointless to the educated masses.
But given the choice between
A. an 'expensive' DVD-R, spending quite a bit of time downloading the content, and optionally printing things out
or
B. the original without all the fuss, for not all *that* much money
I think B is going to be a choice for many.
The end of CD audio, at least here, started when people realized they were getting little value for money when compared to alternatives such as DVDs.
I've been waiting for people to "get" the whole concept of why there is little in the physical world that we should be concerned about. I've completely eliminated most paper from my life. I no longer deal with physical media for movies and music. And hopefully, soon I won't have any need of floppies and old CD-ROMs. Everything should be archived to redundant disk arrays with all forms of information and media being completely electronic. Every room in the house should have extended input and output devices that go beyond Montior/KB/Mouse and speakers. The masses are finally getting why this approach is better...
Un-news
CmdrTaco I know you have a Mac. Have you considered NetNewsWire? Mayhaps that way you'd actually be able to keep up with the days friggin news.
This story broke this morning and by 1 o'clock was being denied and tossed aside.
Taco, love ya man, but if you want my advertisment impressions you're gonna have to do a tad better than late "news", poor grammar and spelling errors.
-
but user created CD's will be around for a long time.
Personally, here's how I'd have phrased your question:
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Not yet another death of the audio CD !!
It's just another paradigm shift. Everyone predicted that CD's would be the death of Vinyl and Cassette tapes and that certainly hasn't happened. While the consumption of both of those formats is nowhere near their peaks, they're both still alive and kicking and aren't going any where soon.
Not everyone has broadband or even an internet connection at home (I'm one.. if it weren't for my job, I'd never get on the web). In fact, I'd say the majority of Americans still have yet to have regular access to the web to make this the overwhelming distribution method for everyone. However, just about everyone DOES have access to the local mall, walmart, or whatever and can pick up physical medium and take it home. There's a convenience factor, plus a hidden costs factor (iPod = $399, Computer = $500+, ISP $20/month+, etc) that while some of us don't pay attention to, they do indeed exist...
Instead of foretelling the "death" of CD's, maybe we should say "death" of traditional monopolized distribution. If anything, this is allowing the floodgates of mass-distribution open to smaller, independent artists who no longer need to sell their souls to "the man" just to get a record deal. iTunes has the potential to put more money into the artists' pockets (folks, living out of a van for 8 months fucking SUCKS, mkay? It'd be nice to get a cheap $20 motel every now and then just to be able to sleep on a bed), which in turn allows artists to produce more music.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Guess how many people will actually use the "songs" given away in McDonalds. I don't think they will come on floppies - the point is they are iTunes songs, so people will have to:
1) get a computer
2) connect to the Internet
3) download iTunes
4) download the song
Unless they already did steps 1-3, this is simply too much hassle to get a 1$ song.
So the end result is much smaller than you might think judging from the 1B figure.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Seen on Slashdot, circa 750 BC:
No matter what you think of iron, this is tremendous publicity for new toolmaking practices in general. If the public gets a taste for it, this could be the beginning of the end for bronze.
Downloading music won't kill the audio CD. There are many audiophiles out there that spend lots of $$$ on high quality sound equipment. Downloaded music quality won't (in the near future) come anywhere close to the quality of the CD.
Additionally with the new formats of digital audio media coming (like Super AudioCD) it's not likely that the size of the audio will decrease. There will ALWAYS be a market for the actual media. Look at the record itself... It's still around (mostly because of the audiophiles).
... [Insert decent Sig]
...but what if you like the audio CD?
McDonald's current Monopoly-themed game gives away Best Buy Bucks in $1, $5 or $10 amounts or more.
McDonald's doesn't care how you buy your music, as long as you enjoy a Big Mac with them.
In an attempt to boost flagging album sales, Michael Jackson will be giving away french fries with each new CD.
The songs I've bought off of iTMS sound far better than the ones I have ripped myself as high as 192 kbps. Says something about the quality of CD's if you ask me.
... because ACC, MP3 and WMA can never appeal to audiophiles, sure, file are really convinient to carry around and all that stuff, but what if you want to hear really good music on your $10k amp and $14k speakers?
128kbps mp3 surely will sound sucks compared to CDs or DVD - audio.
but, it will may suffer the same fate as vinly records, being from majority to minority, used only by the audio elite in pursuit of sonic purification.
see these CDs?
More like McD pays apple $0.75 and Apple pays the record company $0.70 while apple and McD split the cost of advertising the promotion. Also note that the whole thing might be done with McD paying the record company a lower fee, while Apple gets the added promotion, or they might even lose something on the deal.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Well, I heard that Jolt cola is giving away infinity number of songs. So nahny nahny poo poo. :P
crap, now that joke made me want some jolt.
"Ain't I a stinka..." - Bugs
Kentucky Fried Grease
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/031106/1251001388_1.html
Nope. Just a rumor. Move along.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
While this may be good new for the average fast-food scarfing american what does it say about Apple as a brand? What -- now I have to eat a mad-cow burger and rot my teeth just to download a free song? Sure, everyone in suburbia is going to see iTunes on a happy meal now but does the general public view McDonalds as quality? Do we view Apple/iTunes as quality? Apple is taking chance on their brand. What's next -- iTunes coupons in my Sunday newspaper?
only for those that don't get headaches from the godawful mp3 and aac sound quality. CD's are bad enough but these things .. ouch.
With all the fast food jokes etc., it seems the real significance of this deal (if true) is being missed.
With the Peps deal, the goal was to sell 100 million songs by March(?) of next year. This was seen as being extremely ambitious.
Now we up that by an order of magnitude. Now we're talking a complete change in the landscape. Apple is no longer a front-runner in the online music business, Apple is the online music buisiness.
Plus, as you alluded, suddenly AAC has a huge foothold, possibly overshadowing WMA, at least for the short term.
I just hope this turns out to be true, but I'm not holding my breath.
Kentucky Fried Giraffe
As much as I love the old McDonald's record you have to listen to to see if the song finishes and you win a prize, perhaps the greatest Coke song ever was one that was never published.
I watched Jello Biafra at H2K2 last year pull out a vinyl copy of an old song made for a Coke corporate sales conference. Called something like "That Great Big Bottling Plant In The Sky," it extolls the virtues of how great a world without the EPA and labor disputes could be. You'll never see that on TV.
Ahhh, the sugary tooth decay of capitalism.
Although I applaud Apple for proving that legal music downloads is a viable method for labels to make money, the end of brick and mortar music shops is still a long way off.
I still purchase all of my music on CD (and ocassionally vinyl -- I'm one of those insufferable music geeks who bores you at parties with discussions on the best Velvet Underground album). With a CD I get uncompressed tracks, artwork, and I retain my right to rip those tracks to a lossy format for listening on my iPod. Sorry, AAC at 128K and blurry JPGs of the front cover just won't cut it.
What I'd love to see is music stores sell you the physical CD online and then allow you to download the ripped tracks while you wait for your purchases to make their way across the postal system to you.
I realize an average album on the Apple store is only $10 but it appears that major labels are now realizing that CD prices will have to come down to those levels anyway to ward off criticism, quite justified BTW and me and my wallet should know, that they have been gouging consumers for far too long and that has only encouraged illegal file sharing.
You're right that it won't make $990 million in revenue, as they've already stated that they're just preparing for 1billion songs, but they don't think they'll all be used. You're wrong in your assumption that the price is in the $0.30-0.40 range.
For Apple to make an agreement of that sort, it would mean that they'd have to have $0.59-0.69 in profits. Unfortunately, the RIAA doesn't just give them the songs for free-- they still have to pay for them like any other reseller.
Earlier rumors had the labels getting as much as $0.65 per song (and the artists getting their money from that amount). That would leave Apple with about $0.34 per song, and of course, they would have some operating expenses (bandwidth, servers, etc), so their actual profit margin would be less than that.
And well, unless Apple has some sort of plans of becoming a loss leader, and just eating the costs out of their own pocket (which isn't their style), I doubt they'd be willing to go that low. They might be willing to lose 1/2 their profit on single sales for the bulk aspect, and the possibility of future sales to the individuals that are introduced to the service, but well, only Apple would know what their real profit is. I doubt it's more than $0.20 per song, and most others have estimated it to be closer to $0.10.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
First they are putting WiFi HotSpots inside McDs' now "free" music (with purchase) they already have fatty foods, they obviousily have dropped the family marketing tack and are concentrating on nerds as their targeted customers, the'll be serving webpages on Apache/Linux/Perl next!
Maybe instead of calling this change in music distributrion "online music", we should call it "fast tunes" :-)
Okay, mod me down into the basement.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
Kentucky Fried Goose
Everyone seems to love their 99 cent songs. I think iTunes and other services absolutely suck ass in their current incarnation.
Bypassing the art cover, cd pressing, music store commissions, and transportation costs should heavily reduce expenses for the music company. However what they are charging for the online music does not reflect this lowered expense.
Here in Canada, if you go to HMV, a CD might cost between $15 and $25, which is about $12 to $18 US - or about $1 US per song assuming 12 to 18 songs. This is the price as iTunes more or less. (I know you don't have to buy every song on an album with iTunes, only the ones you want lowering your expenses)
So for the same price, you don't get a cover/artwork, you don't get a physical CD that allows you to make unlimited personal use copies on your various players. With online you actually have to supply your own time and energy to create a physical copy of your music.
You only seem to "rent" the song. What happens if your hard drive crashes? Do you have to rebuy all of the songs? Do you "lose" the rights to one of your 3 copies that can only be played under restricted terms on vendor-approved technology?
I think that downloadable music is fine, and companies/artists should make money off of it, but my problem is that consumers lose features in the deal, and the music companies' profit margins just got way wider. (Did I hear that online sales is or will shortly beat regular distribution channels?)
Selling music over the net in a sense is a license for the music companies to print money. They have fixed expenses with relatively low variable expenses, and a very large customer base.
Music companies will laugh themselves to the bank. People who buy it are in a similar position as Native North Americans who were buying the alcohol and trinkets from the early white settlers.
My guess - Apple (or at least iTunes) will soon be aquired by one of the few remaining music giants. This way the music company will be able to sell directly to the consumer retaining all manufacturing and distribution profit.
I got iTunes and the first thing I searched for was 'Beatles' and all I got was like one album that was some sort of wierd early-years album that didn't have any of the old Beatles standards. None of the rest of the Beatles' collection.
Course, I suppose if their label is suing Apple, probably neither side is really wanting to help the other out with what would *obviously* be a mutually beneficial arrangement? Why cooperate and make a boat-load of cash when you can bicker, litigate, and screw each other?
Check this out...footage of Steve Ballmer enjoying his iPod player.
Maybe he should layoff those Big Macs for awhile.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
Kentucky Fried Grapes
Kentucky Fried Goo
It'll be their fault because I'll eat at McDonald's all the time to get my free music. ;)
As more people buy from online sources, record stores will become fewer and the cost of CDs will increase to a price where even fewer will want to buy them. The music companies will prefer and push online music because of the higher profit margin. This circle will cause the extinction of CDs.
It'll be just like when ATMs (Bank Machines) started replacing tellers at banks. It became harder and harder to find a teller (or a bank branch) and now banks often incur service charges to use a teller.
(not to mention poo poo and crap)
I agree. I think that these music download services are a step in the right direction. My big problem is that I'm not purchasing a tangible good when I download music. What if my hard drive crashes? What if the company goes out of business (or abandons that division). What if my encription "key" stops working? Will I be able to use it on all my devices in some way or another? There's just too many unknowns in that purchase for me to feel comfortable, especially at a dollar a song.
At least with a CD if I drop or damage or lose it, I know it's my own fault. And I have the ability to take good care of it so I don't have to worry about that. There's just too many things out of my control with downloadable music.
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
MacRumors -- McDonald's: No Deal To Announce
Just when you make it idiotproof, some idiot builds a better idiot.
Mcdonalds could/would only do this if the music was essentially free to give away.
this outlines the "costs" of delivering music electronically. it elegently shows that $.99 for a tune is still gouging the "customer" (i.e. mark).
a billion times zero is still zero. maybe Coke will give away a TRILLION SONGS!!
At an average of 3 minutes per song, it would take you just over 5700 years to even listen to all of them, much less download them! ;)
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
Does McDonalds want to change there signs to read: [b]One billion Downloaded[/b]
I, OTOH, realize it's still money, and that $60 is $60. As opposed to free.
You have a point about getting an album for half price using this, but I still would probably just get the best tracks for free, and skip the rest.
Pepsi spends 33 cents per bottle (99 cents per tune, 100 million bottles out of 300 million contain iTunes codes). Do they even make 33 cents profit on a bottle of cola? I doubt it...
I haven't seen a cash cow like that since... gosh I don't know when. All they have to do is keep a couple racks of X-Serves running and rake in the $$.
Did the beginning of the end of the audio CD start a long time ago?
TallGreen CMS hosting
iTunes "world" collection ... particularly Indian Classical Music that I looked at is miniscule. I don't expect them to have thousands of EMI India albums, but atleast the hundreds of others that Amazon sells.
BTW, this is also one genre where iTunes will do badly ... since most of the tracks are very long ... 20 or minutes. They seem to have decided not to give any song which is more than 10 minutes long for 99 cents. You need to buy the album for $9.99. Why would I do such a stupid thing since the CD is generally available for $10-$12.
karma : former act as leading to inevitable results
Technology has made copying simple so who should pay for the arts? People who copy aren't paying much especially if you consider that we'll likely be able to stick anywhere from 2 to 20 movies on a single DVD-R.
It's reasonable to expect big business or government to pay a big portion of the costs. That would continue to pay for the arts that everyone loves so much as well as give business publicity. Businesses can use downloads as part of an incentive/rebate/discount program. When artists vie for the sponsorship of businesses this translates into good art that businesses know will be popular.
Demand has driven businesses to develop technology to store more information faster and cheaper. People want the convenience of their own collection of art. In my opinion, this is good for the world. This can still be paid for if businesses pay the bulk of the expenses.
Besides, most of the popular arts promote excessive materialism and the effort and infrastructure to sustain such these desires.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Can I sue McDonald's for a million dollars if I spill a hot iTune in my lap?
For everyone that's heard St. Anger!
iTunes supports the audio formats necessary to promote the sale of iPods and music purchases from the iTunes Music Store. It's strictly a business move. If you have a problem with that, don't use it.
"I Like Big Butts"
IMHO I wouldn't count on seeing CDs dissapearing from store shelves in the near future. With SA CD and DVD Audio on the rise the downloaded versions will never match the quality. The other problem is that Generation X & Y grew up with tapes and CDs. We are all still attached to the physical part of them. Maybe our kids will never own a , but I don't think its quite time.
Later,
Phil
So says McDonalds in the press.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
So much for Apple being a socially responsible corporation, instead Apple has decided to partner with one the most irresponsible corporations known to man.
It appears that McDonald's is denying the story. There may be nothing to it, after all.
wow! can you imagine how much it will cost Apple to manufacture 1 billion songs and then just give them away! yowza!
seriously, what's so exciting about giving away something that costs nothing to make???
...would you like files with that?
There are two problems with CD Red Book Format. One is for real: 16 bit resolution is not enough. According to the research, the threashold of numan hearing requires 18 bit resolution. Normally recording at 20 or 24 bits, and then reducing to 16 bits and applying dithering gets around this problem (more or less). Another problem I would say is mostly imaginary, deals with the high frequencies, CD records at 44.1Khz sanpling frequency, meaning it cuts off at about 22.05 Khz. There are some comletely unsubstantiated claims that humans can hear up to 25Khz. I would say having the source recorded with 24bits resolution, and then downcoverted to 16 bits, and properly mastered is fully adequate.
So CD is perfectly all right. The fact that there are some alternatives formats are being pushed (SACD and DVD-A) has mostly to do with multichannel recording, and copyright protection, than improved quality.
this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD.
Um, yea, kinda like the very VERY beginning. If the end were a person, this might be like that person's great grandfathers' sperm.
If the masses don't buy into my perception of a music collection, then my price is going up.
Linux would not exist if there was no Windows. Think hardware economy of scale.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
So, you get that nifty coupon for an iTunes song, but guess what! That song you were so eager to buy now has a few extra seconds tacked to the head of it: "This song brought to you by McDonalds, home of iFries! Now enjoy the music."
McDonald's/iTunes: No Deal To Announce, Company Says
t ml
Thursday November 6, 12:51 pm ET
DES MOINES, Iowa (Dow Jones)--McDonald's Corp. characterized a published report that it plans a massive digital song giveaway promotion as "pure speculation."
Responding to inquiries about a story in Thursday's New York Post that the fast-food giant will team up with Apple Computer Inc. to offer up to one billion free iTune downloads, McDonald's issued a statement saying, "There are no agreements to announce, so anything else is pure speculation."
iTunes is a digital jukebox software product from Apple that allows a person to download music online. Apple's retail price per song is 99 cents.
The Post story said McDonald's is close to announcing a deal with Apple in which the restaurant chain would buy as many as one billion songs, at 99 cents each, in a major promotion.
If true, that could mean McDonald's might shell out as much as $990 million, a staggering figure. Last year the company's advertising expenditures totaled $ 647.6 million.
McDonald's statement said it "continues to aggressively pursue bold new initiatives in the areas of music, sports, fashion and entertainment to connect with our customers in fresh and relevant ways...You can expect news from McDonald's on a variety of fronts in the coming weeks and months."
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/031106/1251001388_1.h
No matter what you think of iTunes, this is tremendous publicity for music on demand services in general. If the public gets a taste for it, this could be the beginning of the end for the audio CD.
What? This could only be the beginning of the end in the same sense that the invention of TV was the beginning of the end for newspapers. Maybe in 80 years we'll see CD audio go away. There is just too much equipment out there that plays audio CDs for people to abandon them at this point.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I can see the slogans now: Billions and billions served...with subpoenas.
Have you seen my stapler?
Why don't musicians cut deals directly with corporations to give away access to free downloads of their music as part of promotions? Didn't McDonalds already give away cheap disks of Britney & NSync a few year back? Anybody can put up a web site and give away access codes -- why give Apple a cut?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
the secret sauce is thousand island dressing...
Although here, Apple is called revolutionary while the music industry is the one beleaguered. Of course, for the most mention of the word "beleaguered" in conjunction with anything, start reading the trolls in the BSD section.
Hundreds of thousands of iTunes Music Store users are now poised and ready to only drink and purchase Pepsi, Diet Pepsi and Sierra Mist for the duration of the promotion because there really is no reason to purchase any other product since none of them are possibly giving you back $3 worth of music per 6 pack!
I dare you to say, with a straight face, that it really is worth 3 dollars to you.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
n/t
So this is an easy way to trump the competition by doing the whole bigger-number-pissing-match thing.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
if it were true.
'nuf said
I think, therefore I am...I think.
I'm going to rant, but my Karma is already bad and I don't know how to get good karma, so I don't really care because I'm going for insightful.
I didn't spend thousands of dollars for my direct gain Acurus audiophile amplifier, CD player and NHK speakers to listen to crappy lossy mp3 files.
Technology is making music more convenient, but sound decidedly worse sounding. So much music today is digitized, overdubbed, multitracked, noise reduced, filtered, and over produced into something that is decidedly inauthentic in artistic expression. The same can be said for digital photography; or the recent Star Wars films. I've never paid for any mp3, and never will because PC sound cards and speakers suck ass. Most people have never even heard how good music can sound because mass consumer electronics warp and distort it. Compare the THD of your Japanese receiver with a Macintosh amplifier. Listen to Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" and compare 1950s era recording studio technology to todays. Is that progress?
I wonder if it's less overhead for Apple to do it this way. When I buy a song with my credit card from the store directly, some small percentage of the $0.99 must be going towards credit card fees, etc. When they do it through retail vendors like McDonalds and Pepsi, they probably get a fat (overhead-free) check from those folks, who in turn absorb the overhead of collecting that cash.
Sure, there are other costs invovlved in managing that kind of program, but if Apple sets it up well, they could actually be increasing their profit by making the retail vendors pay for some of those costs.
Just because we use computers every day, all the time, doesn't mean that everybody does...
What agout an iTunes music store?
All you would need is a cubicle and an computer. You could burn CDs to order in just a few minutes with the whole on-line library to choose from. Think of those kiosks you see in the center hallway of all major shopping malls these days. That's all you would need...
You would just need for the online music store to give you a special account, so that people actually owned their own music, and hopefully so that the store owner could buy 'wholesale'
Come on, how many times a week on Slashdot does someone want to proclaim the "beginning of the end" of some old standby technology? I remember Coke was giving away MiniDiscs sometime around 1991 or so, and it was the Beginning Of The End of the CD...
My blog can kick your blog's ass
I just shot Pepsi out of my nose laughing at your comment! : )
Sure, Apple takes the hit on the bandwidth costs, but how much do you want to bet that at least half of these people buy another track besides the free ones while they are at the store? And how many more of those millions of people are going to come back once they see how easy it is to buy music?
I seriously can't believe that there isn't anyone among the management and sales force of all these major studios that realizes the stupidity of their views.
Well, either stupidty or just sheer terror at change and seeing entire layers of management and middlemen made obsolete and jobless :)
"Trying is only the first step towards failure." - Homer
"...a validation of Apple's revolutionary iTunes service - and a ringing endorsement for the beleagured music industry."
The irony!
When's the last time you saw an album that was released on Apple Records? I thought that one of the requirements for maintaining a trademark was that you had to use it. If you don't use it, it's considered to be abandoned.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
The Wall Street Journal and others have reported that Apple is making exactly no money at all on their 99 cent downloads. That's right, no profit. Unless they can get better deals from the record companies, or push down the credit card costs, or otherwise somehow get some economies of scale, ITMS will continue to be a loss leader for the Ipod (which does make lots of money for Apple).
\
McDonald's giving away free music with food. You guys think this will result in a "expansion" of the iTunes user base?
In all fairness I don't eat at McDonald's because I don't believe what they sell is actually food. So I'm not effected by said deal.
I can't beleive no comments have been modded up noticing this! An article referring to Apple mentioned the Music industry as beleaguered instead!
2 2/152252&mode=thread&tid=107
If this has gone over your head, check out
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/
Inaudible bands are important too.
No, really, I'm not kidding.
Humans can distinguish interference beats between similar frequencies with a difference of 7 Hz or less.
So if you have a violin playing a perfect middle C at 256 Hz, it's also producing tons of other tones, hence it does not sound like a tuning fork.
Many of these tones are above and below the human hearing range of, let's say, 20 Hz to 20 kHz. But if you've got a tone at 30,000 Hz and another at 30,005 Hz, the human ear can hear that interference beat. If your reproduction source caps below there- well, too bad.
Of course, this is where you say "wait a minute, if humans can only hear the interference beats in the audible range, then can't the microphones hear just the interference beats too and reproduce them, safely ignoring the actual cause of them?
The problem with this is that in professional recording these days, there are microphones everywhere, recording the closest thing they can get to discreet channels for every instrument. So you may catch a lot of what's going on with one violin, but the interaction between each violin and the other strings gets lost, or the lead guitar and the bass guitar, or whatever you've got.
Does this sound really matter? To the extent it's audible, isn't it junk noise you'd rather get rid of anyway? Maybe.
Some people argue that a performance should be recorded with two very good microphones positioned where the ear drum goes inside a fake head with fake ears, modeled after the closest shape they can get to "the average ear." Then listen to it through a pair of Really Good Headphones.
This isn't a minor quibble, either. I picked the violin because it produces a very complex and hard to reproduce noise. I don't think anyone has yet invented a way to reproduce sound that can fool a trained ear into think it's a real violin. This is part of the reason why, even with very low THD in all components, current hi-fi systems fall short of their goal. Perhaps SACD's will help.
MP3, AAC, etc. make a lot of assumptions about the human hearing model and guessing what information they can throw away without adversely affecting the music. It's amazing how much compression they get out of those things, and I don't know that much about the codecs, but I expect interference beats are among the things they tend to miss.
-Phat Tony.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
whole thread is rubbish - Mc D is denying there is any deal or will be any deal. Planted story the Post didnt check the facts on.
At first glance, I don't see how they can offer such a prize...
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
i will admit the only things i have bought from their store are tracks not on the CDs or records..... i guess i add to the numbers of people buying single songs.... I also think i am old enough (though only 29) to still have a desire for artwork. that's why i prefer to buy LPs as opposed to CDs. I still look at a CD and think how much i prefer the larger layout of the LP format..... that being said i am sure that people raised on CDs will see it as less big of a deal, and the next generation will think we are all looney.
Wishing for the best of all possible outcomes, as you do, doesn't change the fact that McDonalds isn't exactly in the business of promoting indie culture. In fact, it's somewhat better known for promoting cultural products that are the equivalent of its food.
It would be sooo cool if McDonald's would actually distribute a CD with iTunes (Mac/PC), kiddie games, maybe some quicktime stuff from Pixar... maybe a promo video of Macs/OSX/iSight trailers etc. and embeded in the cd would be the cert. for the free tune... AND, you could even order an iPod off the CD and get 25 free songs or something... anyway food for thought. hevans
Fuck off, Troll.
If you like CDs, there is nothing stopping you from burning your iTunes tracks onto CDs as much as you want. Blank CD-Rs are well under 25 cents each these days.
files are accidentally deleted. hard drives crash and burn. records bend and scratch. minidiscs i'm sure will get lost. tapes,..i don't even want to go near... what does that leave? CDROMs will last something like a half million years if stored properly. while obviously not absolute sound quality, they do provide a good storage medium...at least until blue laser dvd's come along. ideally, i would like to have plenty of cd's for idle listening, and burn them all to ogg or mp3 and listen to that. and when my mp3 player/computer dies, my cd's will just redubbed to ogg/mp3. and hey! record at extreemly high bitrates if you want better quality, and put it on cdr's. not a perfect solution but mabye one day it could be...
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
McDonald's promotion: $1,000,000,000
Profits for Apple: $200,000,000
Having one billion free, legal songs that can only be played on iTunes and iPods in a WMA world: priceless.
There is NO quantization noise. Dithering raises the noise floor by -6dB, but eliminates quantization noise entirely and actually lets you hear stuff below the noise floor.
However, we do still have a need for larger sample sizes. You can hear a difference, and quite a dramatic one, between 16-bit and 24-bit on good hardware. As for higher sample rates, those I'm not so sure about. I've never been able to hear a difference like I can with 16/24 bit. However my ears certianly aren't golden.
"McDonalds announces promotion where the purchase of any combo meal will include a peel off sticker on the french fry container with 1 code redeemable for a free song valued at $0.99"
wow
but your missing the whole point. its not 99c its nothing. i can download the music for free.
why dont artists get hard on for popularity anymore? god... this is the same logic that will have the nanoforges taxed to all hell. you cant prop up capitalism for ever people.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
A problem with the error correction used on CDs is that it is not designed to deliver a bit-accurate signal. A CD burned as data (Mode 1) gets an additional 100MB of error correction information in order to insure bit-accuracy even with reasonable levels of damage to the disc. On an audio CD (Mode 2), corrupted sections of audio are interpolated, or simply muted for short periods. While you'll clearly notice when the audio is cutting out, you may not be able to tell when the audio is being distorted due to interpolation, and your overall experience will be reduced quality. This is why we need high quality rippers like CDParananoia, and can't just copy the data right off. Even using a high-quality ripper, it's not likely you're getting a bit-accurate signal, unless you use a pristine disc and high quality drive.
Free Bobby McFerin downloads with each Happy Meal!
When I was in college ~25 years ago, and music was still mostly sold on vinyl, and noise was mostly still analog (:-) one of my housemates had a medium-quality stereo system, and said that his system had reached the point that he could hear the original music pretty well. He was into classical music, and at that point it was much more effective for him to buy records from better orchestras with better conductors than to buy better stereo equipment so he could hear mediocre orchestras really clearly.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
That CD may hit all the accoustics near-perfectly, but it doesn't have any spare bits to reproduce the chemicals that were affecting your perception the night of the concert. So get some dope to smoke while listening to the CD...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks