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Apple to Buy TiVo?
vallette writes "Reuters is reporting that Apple may be interested in buying TiVo. Seems like a good fit to me. Both companies stock price is up on the rumor."
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How can this not be a good idea? A decent PVR setup (with hardware acceleration) has been missing for the MacOS platform. Even though there are software options, they require heavy duty hardware and because there is no hardware acceleration, even a G5 takes a bit of crunching to perform compressions and such. Also, given Apple's video compression technologies such as Pixlet would make ideal means for encoding video for later replay, say on the plane or some such downtime.
Of course the business analysis will make the ultimate determination of whether or not Apple is willing to make the move, (and Tivo has been losing money), but if any company can make it work, while showing the MPAA and equivalent TV organization a past history of success in media with iTunes, Apple is it. Come on, how would you like to in addition to the traditional PVR duties, be able to pull up TV episodes of old series that are not being shown, even in syndication? Or have a truly "on demand" movie library of all sorts, not just the popular canned options that cable companies think will be most profitable?
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And mysteriously my TiVo no longer skips those retina burning iPod commercials
Most have seen these pictures.
Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
If anyone can figure this one out it's Apple. Tivo is an amazing product, it just needs to be managed properly. Apple seems to be pretty good at that these days.
Why is it allways Apple that's involved with those rumours? Apples should better hire better PR guys or stop getting benefits from so called rumours.
Apple was the fish to be eaten, not the fish to eat.
Well, at least the TiVo service already somewhat goes with the current Apple naming scheme...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Wahoo
Yay a way to record porn from pay per view. Then add it to my collection from Limewire!
This would make sense as it would fit in with their "digital hub" philosophy. My only question is how would they integrate it with their existing product line?
iPodTV anyone?
--Fairfax Underground: Where Fairfax County comes out to play
Great. Now my Tivo will play even fewer games.
Not sure if the bandwidth requirements are there yet, but it would be an interesting proposition. iPod::iTMS, TiVo::iMVS (iMovie Video Store). Given TiVo's crapping on the Mac lately by not supporting AAC and no Mac support for TiVo2Go, I think this is purely wishful-thinking on the analyst's part.
"The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
Just get a free bittorrent client for your Mac mini. Who needs a TiVo?
It has already been rumored that apple was going to make a large acquisition. I think this would be a useful move for apple, allowing for a presence in the PVR and Media Center markets without creating a new product, or any of the R&D costs involved.
Klatu Brata Nicto
Saw funny run-down of the Apple product cycle in someone's sig today. This cracked me up.
Let the wild speculation begin! I predict the iMovie store will play an integral part in this along with the new chip-based 3ivX encoder, and the cell processor system, and some sort of robot sent back from the future. Oh my!
Frankly, I'm not really interested in paying $699.00 for a TiVo in translucent blue plastic.
Besides, it doesn't seem all that great a fit. TiVo is based on Linux, and Apple has spent the last half decade working on Mach/BSD. "Apple-izing" the TiVo would take an enormous amount of parallel engineering, during which time no new TiVo products would come out.
It's almost a cool idea, but I don't see it working.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
There were and have been all sorts of rumours going round that the Mini was aimed at this kind of usage.
Could mae a lot of sense - it would look pretty nice next to a tv.. with a wireless controlloer of some sort.. could be a very nice package.
How do you think apple's FairWatch (or whatever they choose to call it) would end up looking like?
Shouldn't that be "unpopular" canned options?
Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
I like to see Apple becoming a more acknowledged and respected brand... since someday I hope more people can enjoy how much better an experience using Mac OSX is compared to Windows.
We all know Apple is leading in MP3 players.
And we all know Apple has about 2% marketshare when it comes to computers. What I don't think I've ever seen though is a marketshare breakdown for just laptops. I only know one person who has a Mac on his desktop at home... but in my classes (computer science majors) I'd say about half the laptops are iBooks or PowerBooks... and I see perhaps an even greater percentage when I go into the library where the majors are more mixed. (And yet there's always a university Mac station free even when all the Windows PCs are taken and have a queue)
I know Macs are unpopular for desktops (never mind how many companies buy Windows desktops straight from Dell, that must REALLY count against Apple there)... but I have a hunch they're doing very well in the laptop arena.
Or how would you like to ride in an aircar to your destination, or 'micro-wave' all of your food?
As usual, good ideas never live up to the reality and the problem here isn't so cut and dried. CONTENT is the issue. All I see Apple gaining is the TiVO name (which in and of itself isn't a bad thing). Content suppliers are the ones who will have to meet consumers halfway and if what's been going on with the DMCA, Broadcast Flag, and other nonsense, I don't see this changing.
Now... If Apple decides to take chances and 'loophole' solutions to let their consumers do what they want with the content - THAT would be interesting. So far, it appears the consumer electronics industry as a whole is rolling over when challenged by the likes of the RIAA and MPAA.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
"You see we have this new computer that we think would be a nice machine to power a familys media needs... It'll handle DVD's, CD's, mp3's, and a ton of other formats. And it's small! A family could tuck is away somewhere our of the way, and control everything through say a Bluetooth enabled remote. And did I mention it's quiet? You could hear a pin drop with it running a foot away from you".
"Of course it would also nice if we could somehow integrate some PVR-like capabilities into our system... Time shifting and the like... Well say, that's what you boys do, now that I think about it. Look... You could sell media boxs for the next few years, until the cable companies, and the satellite companies put you out of business, Or... You could join up with me, and we can change the world!"
but it'll look cool as hell :)
I can't wait to see what it would look like, perhaps an egg shaped object that, resembles something Mork kicked open and crawled out of!!
All apple would have to do is make the tivo pearly white and then the loads of apple fans would buy it instantly.
If Apple were to do this and buy Tivo, all they'd have to do is integrate the airport express hardware into a tivo and you'd have a very nice way to wireless stream audio and video to your tv from your computer as well as still having a great DVR. I'd also like to see what Apple could do to possible improve the Tivo UI.
Why would this work for Apple? Yes, Tivo is getting hammered by the big cable companies, but Apple has never needed market share to succeed, if they make a nice box to fix in the home threatre cabinet then the Apple hoardes will follow.
ce n'est pas un Sig.
Think about it. Apple gets a platform to finally take iTunes/iPod to the next level, and Tivo finally gets something to differentiate themselves from all the other PVRs out there.
And most importantly Apple has at least some block on Windows Media Video ruling the world.
Really, why would Apple want Tivo? Last I heard tivo was starting to fall on hard times.
Far better off just making their own PVR software. You can already hack together a pretty nice PVR using a Motorola DCT-6200 and a Mac. see here : http://macteens.com/more.php?id=410_0_1_0_C
The only reason Apple might want tivo is to leverage themselves somehow into the way that cable/satellite/ip content is distributed, just to block M$ push. Maybe i'm missing something but I don't see how buying tivo would help much if any with this.
That said I would love to see a nice Mac Mini DVR from Apple. That said if they don't make one, not too hard to make one yourself.
I, for one, welcome our iPippen overlords
Note that most people are rather positive about this.... Imagine if it was Microsoft purchasing Tivo...
I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Tivo fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Tivo (a revision 3) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 minute show from one machine to another. 20 minutes! At home, on my MiniITX running MythTV, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Tivo, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.
In addition, during this program transfer, the Channel Guide will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even the media player software for the PC is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Tivos, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Tivo that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Tivo's faster Linux architecture. My ReplayTV with 8gigs of HD runs faster than this machine at times! From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Tivo is a superior machine.
Tivo addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Tivo over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
(Word to the mods.)
So it would be iTiVo then?
I stole this Sig
Misery Loves Company.
Wonder when Apple will pick up BSD cause that's been dying forever, oh wait.
Must remember to call my broker before I successfully predict a rumour.
c id=11746124
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140271&
ROFL - well, it can't be iTivo, it just can't!
Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
I'd much rather spend 45 minutes illegally downloading some crap rip that has unnerving commercials for places that don't exist in my area than have a cheap machine do it for me automagically.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
I posted a comment to this effect elsewhere several weeks ago, and on either here or MetaFilter (can't remember) a few days ago -- and I was just thinking it was a good idea, no info or rumors.
If this comes true, do I get to call myself a prophet, or just really good at spotting the obvious?
I was thinking tivo should be on Netflix's radar. For Tivo ideally fits with video-on-demand services which is a major threat to Netflix business model. Perhaps, it makes lot more sense for Netflix to buy tivo and integrate all these services (Tivo, video-on-demand (whenever it comes) and ofcourse DVD rentals!)..
A cursory glance certainly highlights pros of an Apple/TiVo merger:
.AAC but for video) to restrict transfer of video to approved "devices" such as other TiVo units or portable accessories.
1. Mac mini can be a TiVo unit (just use the S-Video out adapter for your TV set). Although it'll need a TV card (wish they'd come out with something like the Hauppauge Nexus-S satellite TV card).
2. Next generation iPod Photo will probably be iPod Video with content that can be transferred from your TiVo unit (the Mac mini) to your iPod Video portable unit.
3. Apple is probably not happy with just distributing music media (via its iTunes store) but is looking to the future to also provide downloadable video content via an "iVideo" store--what better way to do that than to buy the TiVo customer base and offer them this content.
4. Apple can ensure that the saved video content has the right digital stamps (a la
The one downside I see in this merger is that Apple will probably concentrate less and less on the service of "timeshifting" (i.e. drop it entirely), unless they can ensure that users have a right to that material. READ: unless the bigwigs of TV land is happy about how Apple handles digital rights management of timeshifted/saved content. Although timeshifting and saving media for later viewing is currently acceptable, the logical path that this technology leads to, is the ability to share that content or make it portable--something that is not yet acceptable among Hollywood and the TV networks.
Linux at home
They both love inappropriately capitalised names...
Kinda tenuous, I know, but it is late and I'm tired
Just because your paranoid doesn't really mean they aren't out to get you
I'm picking nits here, but Pixlet would actually be a terrible technology for this application. Pixlet sacrifices compression rate for the ability to do frame by frame advances. Great for an editor; not so great if you just want to watch video.
H.264 (aka AVC), however, would be terrific for this, since it's designed to scale all the way from HD to cellphone resolution.
(Concerning the uniqueness of having a little "i")
Well... this one did.
Gabriel Ricard
I've heard that Apple's revenue from personal computers is about 2% of the total industry-wide revenue from such things.
I've heard that about 10% of the installed base of computers actually in use is Apple.
And I've heard that anywhere from 20% to 60% of university faculty and students, depending on the university, are choosing Apple computers.
These figures are not in any way mutually exclusive, but they certainly give different impressions.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
It's sure looking like the MacMini was designed to be the iPod of PVRs. No doubt that's where Apple is going. But why do they need TiVo? There isn't anything technical that Apple can't do as good if not better. Apple as enough name cred already to introduce their own product. Acquiring TiVo won't garner a large share of the market. Gotta wonder what's going on here....
What does Roland Piquepaille think about this??
I've gotta hand it to you--that's one of the cleverest Goatse links I've seen!
Peter: "No, that says 'Audi' - the "T" is silent!"
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Finally, I can see a use for the 20-60gb iPods - for portable video content. Too bad the current iPod and iPod mini won't be able to display that stuff. Maybe at that point, I could see buying an iPod Video (to borrow the no-nonsense Apple naming scheme)...after the price has dropped a little in 2nd generation. Furthermore, I'd rather hold off on the Mac Mini because it's not really ready as a set-top box yet.
;)
...
However, Jobs seems to be building this market piece by piece and in a very good order, I might add. First music, then photos, then video. Life is random, but Apple's marketing is not
I'm waiting for the video because then I can have all three in one easy-to-use device
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
Both companies stock price is up on the rumor.
1. Pay Apple $$$ for new iStock service.
2. Apple spreads "rumors" of a buyout
3. Stock prices go up.
4. ???
5. Profit
Doesn't TiVo have a huge amount of debt? While their product may be interesting, I am under the belief that if Apple were to purchase Tivo, it would mean also having to acquire that debt--whereas, if anything, if Apple just purchased the rights to the TiVo software (to run on a mini, etc) they don't have to take on that debt too.
What does Apple gain from a TiVo purchase vs a license to their tech? If Tivo were making money, there'd be that--but they aren't and their prospects are dim.
I can see Apple licensing the tech, releasing it for free (for Macs) or as part of their iLife tools--and then charging a sub to hit Apple servers for schedule download. And I think they could do really interesting things with DRM content with OS X as a platform. I guess we'll see.
--
$tar -xvf
Just hope my Lifetime Subscription carries over...
Yeah, maybe this is trolling, but it annoys me: Can the editors at least make sure the stories they post are written by someone who understands English grammar? Yes, this time it's just one missing apostrophe, which is certainly subtle... but it doesn't take genius to get this stuff right, people. It's simple. Errors that a reader can spot on the first pass -- without even specifically looking for errors -- shouldn't be let through. [/rant]
TiVo would seem to fit much better into Steve Jobs's portfolio than into Apple's product line...
Maybe this is pie in the sky, but one can hope. :)
I think what Reuters' sources meant to say wasn't "Apple to buy Tivo's business" but rather "Apple to put Tivo out of business".
How? Introduce the mac mini shuffle and put them to shame. I for one would love to record random shows from great channels like Life and QVC.
--"It's Bradford Company, slash your last name, dot your first name"
I keep seeing posts about how awful it would be for Apple to buy TiVo because TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and because of the onslaught of competition from other PVR companies.
Regardless of its declining status, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't TiVo still the current market leader for PVR products? I mean, if Apple DOES want to quickly get into the PVR market, wouldn't it just make sense to buy the market leader and go from there if possible?
It just seems to me that even if TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and/or market share, it would be a hell of a lot easier for Apple to buy it and turn it around than to start from scratch and overtake them with a whole new product line. Besides, TiVo does still have some interesting things going on. Even though the deal is winding down, they still have the DirecTV subscribers, plus the Home Media capabilities (easily integrated with iPods), plus the Netflix deal, and so on.
Whether or not this actually happens, it seems to me that this would be a sweet deal for both companies, if (and only if) Apple seriously wants to get into the media center market.
(If Apple does this just to "play around" in the media center market, then it will be an unmitigated disaster for both companies.)
Tivo more identifiable then PVR/DVR or even VCR. Anyone thinking that they might be buying a dying product for the brand name alone? People don't even say I recorded a show they say "I Tivo-ed it". So maybe product recognition is something they are looking for rather then a Mac "the unknown white meat".
I own a Mac and love it, yep I paid too much for it, but I don't reboot daily/weekly, I don't worry about viruses (since few have a computer), I have an excellent browser, easy updates, actual OS updates and releases.
So hopefully Mac has learned the Microsoft lesson that you get the people and eventually build a product worth the attention.
Plus Stevie J said that there's something big coming this year from Apple, and that it starts with the mini.
Although I'm a big fan of replaytv 5000 series with commercial advance. Love me my replaytv.
TiVo Sale Rumors -- link
by: phillipswann 02/23/05 12:21 pm
Msg: 239226 of 239994
http://www.swannisez.com/tivorumor022305.html
(If you look at that link now, it's a rehash of Reuters news concerning the rumor, with no hint that Swann -- who has probably scared himself half to death by singlehandedly moving the market -- started this rumor himself)
At 3:11 pm, Marketwatch issued a sloppy story that credited an entity called "Inside Digital Media" for cracking the apple buyout story. However, if you visit the site, you will find a blog entry that presents a well-reasoned rationale as to why Apple should buy Tivo, but no hard news at all.
Subsequently, analyst Steven Kroll, Jr. (whose dad is a senior partner at the same firm) provided the "what we hear on the street" quote that Reuters served up.
No one seems to have bothered at all to trace this garbage to its specious sources.
I own some Tivo, and was watching all of this today because I was considering cutting my losses (this dog had lost one-third of its value in a month). Instead, I'm holding on and hoping for a short squeeze, or even the possibility that the rumors will alert video-on-demand competitors to what a bargain TIVO's 3 million subscribers would be for anyone seeking a toehold on the living room.
So, while it looks to me that the rumor is only that, I wouldn't be too surprised if it became reality.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
iVo
Table-ized A.I.
Apple already has more brand recognition than TiVo
But TiVo's name has achieved the same status as Kleenix, Xerox, and Frisbee, where the brand name has become synonymous with the product/technology. "Apple" hasn't, iPod perhaps is getting there, but not yet with the Apple name. It's still that other computer with no games/costs too much/looks pretty/isn't Windows.
its a very interesting thought to say the least. cringely had me mostly convinced with what he had to say about the mac mini. if this really went down it would be pretty clear evidence that he was right. i honestly think he has to be right, or there's a real chance of people not seeing the light and going with microsoft's IPTV instead. they really did impress me with that at CES.
the toothpaste is frozen
TiVo in translucent blue plastic.
Translucent blue plastic is so 2000... Apple style 2005 is all about shiny white plastic or blue anodized aluminum.
My other first post is car post.
I have been reading all this negative stuff about the state of Tivo lately. It is scary and depressing stuff.
I Love my Tivo. I say this so strongly and frequently that my girlfriend is starting to become jeleous/disturbed/worried.
You know, I think this may be a BETTER idea then them hiring on a new CEO. Apple would be a fabulous match.
Go Steve Jobs Go!
I know Apple buys companies and acquires technology, but these companies are always smaller, under the radar companies. When was the last time an Apple acquisition made front page news? Apple may not always really create everything they market, but they want it to appear that all these things spring forth straight from Cupertino. But, it is hard to not get excited about these two companies talking. They both want to be revolutionary companies. And, who doesn't want the underdogs to win?
Combine a mac mini with a TiVo and connect it with one of those small footprint projectors that was a topic of discussion here about a month ago, and you have a computer system/entertainment center that takes up less desk space than your keyboard.
Just put the system on the end table next to the couch and hook up some surround sound, and you've got an instant home theater for about 1200 bucks. Plug in some wireless USB video game controllers and install an emulator or 4, and you've got an instant arcade. And with an 80 gig iPod, you should be able to store a few shows for viewing on the go.
I hate apple products, they are over priced and under spec'd. ...but as a Tivo Zealot may I take this chance to welcome my new White overloads and bask in their designey goodness.
(Hey, anything to keep my tivo running!)
You hit on something I didn't realize, but completely missed it yourself as well...
Tivo's current customers? If they aren't making a profit for TiVo, why would they make one for Apple? Besides, Apple presumably will want to introduce something like the iTunes Music Store for HD video. This will require H.264 [apple.com] for efficient content delivery. Current TiVo hardware can't handle this. Presumably, current TiVo owners will be looking to upgrade in the next few years to a DVR with HD capability. Why shouldn't it be an Apple instead of a TiVo?
Ding ding ding! To buy music from the iTMS, you have to have a computer. Apple's missing out on selling to non-computer savvy people. It's also missing out on selling to people who don't have good speakers connected to their computers.
What about enabling TiVo devices to purchase music from the iTMS? Suddenly, Tivo's customers are profitable to Apple where they weren't to TiVo.
n/t
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
It will be called iVo
I read the link, and it's obvious that the /. comment was a parody of that blog post, but... so what? Is that a famous blog post or something? WTF is kottke?
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
What's particularly interesting about this saga is that it was started by some random guy who could be your next door neighbor or someone embedded deep in Apple. Who really knows?
The sloppy reporting that followed was then exposed by aka-ed, who though not "blogging" it in the most exact sense of the term was for all intents and purposes doing just that - taking advantage of a Web forum to shed a little light on how the rumor got started.
The interplay between traditional "Big Media" players and bloggers is getting weirder and weirder every day.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Slashdot: Rumors for Nerds, stuff that we have no reason to think will happen.
I agree with the gist of your post, but actually many of the "bootleg" TV episodes on BitTorrent and eDonkey are exceptionally high quality.
Many are recorded direct from HDTV and carefully encoded by real fans (doing virtually professional work as a labor of love). They have clean edits to remove the commercial breaks and good timing to avoid cut-offs at the end.
One proble I see is Apple has never been one for losing money on hardware to sell a subscription service (not that I tink that is a wrong strategy) and getting people to buy a $300 TiVo box would be a hard sell.
/.'er. TiVo's recently were in the $50 neighborhood at Best Buy, which brings them to the impulse price.
For bette ror worse, peopl will ocmpare them to $50 VCRs and think - $300 Why? Plus $12 a month? No way.
That makes it hard to get th market share needed to sustain it in the long run. Sure, TiVo does a lot more, but you need to convince the average consumer, not a
TiVo is not exactly a household name, and I don't see Apple changing it's business model to sell them. After all, we don't see cheap 40G iPods to sell iTunes.
OTOH, Apple could want some critical technology and buy TiVo to get it, then kill the service. Jobs is pretty ruthless with things he didn't invent, witness the newton, and some he did. Is TiVo NeXT?
OTOOH, Appple has some great hardware engineers, and maybe they could come up with a TiVo Shuffle.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
later on, expect a Tivo-mini model, because people say "it's too expensive", and to give people the *cough* "chance" *cough* to run AppleTivoOS X, and it will come without a remote.
/.'ers will dig it just like iPods and minis, just because it's small and pretty.
It will be a useless f'n P.O.S. for n00bs, but
And they sell mpeg4 movies/tv shows for US$ 3 or less/hour then I would buy one.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Please God, oh God, let this not be another case of snake oil.
is not up because of this rumor. Apple announced new iPods yesterday, thats why stock price is up.
Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
Well, considering the primary TiVo problem is hardware cost... Apple sounds good. If anyone can figure out how to drop overpriced hardware onto people it is Apple. Of course, I thought the TiVo had real promise... if the perennial also-rans at Apple buy it.. maybe it *is* doomed.
:)
p.s. I know Ipods are selling well, I am more referring to their history in the PC market... and being a bit of troll.
TiVO has already met it's saturation limit. TiVO is too expensive with the monthly charges. And TiVO is being copied and surpassed by local cable companies and DirectTVs offerings in the DVR areana. Thus of couse them and Apple would make a good fit.
Apple's stock isn't up on this rumor. Apple's stock is just up as of late.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
This is where AOL/TimeWarner should of went after the merger. Apparently they were too timid and now they'll pay the price.
--
Quafumo duo tradrack fino
Now my Tivo will really think I'm gay.
...it's not like the HP/Compaq thing. Finding Compaq drivers means you need to set aside a few hours to sort through all the HP drivers.
Last I recall, Apple had approx $8 BILLION in cash holdings. Eating up TiVo (value ~$300 million), would seem to be a small price to pay for what ammounts to a great service. Hell, what did Apple pay for NeXT?
As a TiVo customer, I just hope that my $300 lifetime service contract MEANS something if the company were to be taken over. I'm an Apple junkie as well, so this is the best of both worlds for me. I think.
I did say a couple of weeks ago on the last TiVo thread that the only thing that would save this company would be a Jobs-like CEO. Maybe that wish will come true.
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140271&c id=11746093
...sucks
what does roman polansky think about this?
I think the enormous success of the iTunes Music Store could pave the way for Apple to offer the same thing for video down the road.
:-) Apple could charge maybe US$2.50-US$3.00 per one hour TV episode.
By compressing the video in MPEG-4 format (which uses a lot less hard disk space than MPEG-2 on a per hour basis--after all, the DiVX format is a de facto MPEG-4 derivative), Apple could put legal downloads of video programming at the rate of around 200 MB per hour of very good quality video!
I think my suggested iVideo online store idea could be a huge success, especially if Apple can get rights to obscure TV programming. Imagine having just about all of ESPN's programs from its history available for download on iVideo, which may not be so far-fetched given that ESPN is in the process of digitizing their entire historical tape library onto a massive bank of servers.
My suggestion seems far-fetched, but remember broadband Internet use has climbed dramatically in the USA in recent years, and when 802.16 and 802.20 high-capacity wireless Internet access starts rolling out next year that will really accelerate the acceptance of broadband Internet usage. With broadband usage so common, Apple will have the economic model to start iVideo within the next 24-36 months.
I'm not sure why this rumor is so big. Apple could make a TiVo-like box, in white plastic, that would be stylish, expensive, and would work great.
They don't need to get TiVo first to do this.
The iPod is having a huge effect, the Jobs power play. ie give them a sample and they will be hooked is working. iPod users use the iPod, go to the apple store see the beautiful machines and see other people using them.
Would they rename it iTvo?
Wow. This is curious timing. My Macs are my principle computers when I'm not at work. My TiVo is my principle TV-watching device (really, I couldn't imagine TV without it -- look for my Ask Slashdot question about it!).
Despite all this, I'm just about to dump TiVo. My story is long...
I have a 14-hour Sony Series 1 that I purchased when TiVo was a brand new thing -- I got it back in 2000. I've never had a single problem with it, and it's supurbly built. Within a week, I wouldn't watch television any other way.
Two years ago or so I read about the Hacking Tivo book here on Slashdot, and ordered it immediately. The original 30GB Quantum drive has since been replaced with a 150GB Maxtor, and an ethernet card's been added to it. I've manually added some of the more interesting (to me) hacks that I've come across in the TiVo communities.
But if I'm so perfectly happy, why replace it, you may ask? Well, I'm greedy now, as well as working out of the country where 24 is from last year, and Taken and Stargate: Atlantis appear on Fox.
Now Mac haters can rejoice in my failure: in the time I had to set it up, I just couldn't get video to stream from my TiVo to my Mac. Well, I could get it to stream, but a working mplayer for .ty files on the Mac was problematic.
That's when I decided that I was just going to build a MythTV box (yes, even as a Mac-first person, I'm comfortable with Linux). Sure, I could use my noisy PC (yes, as a Mac-first person, I own a PC -- home-built, at that). It'd be comfortable in the basement where the cable and DirecTV come in. I could eliminate cables from the living room. I could put Mini Macs in the rest of the house for front ends. I could consolidate all my iTunes and iPhoto and DVD's and every piece of media I have on a single device. And, doing it myself, the use of a credit card wouldn't be required!
Good thing I'm -- as I mentioned -- out of the country, or I'd've already jumped the gun and bought the PC parts. Now for the summary of my post:
I can't wait to see how this comes out.
--Jim (me)
How much could they lose in the lawsuit...
All their illgotten gains, plus damages... depending on state law, triple damages isn't unheard of.
You cannot do something blatantly against a contract because the lawsuit will collect less.
Alex
No firewire 1600. No gigabit wireless. Lame.
Arthur van Hoff and Jonathan Pyane would be incredible additions to Apple. They'd fit right in with Apple's A-team and Jobs. Avh and JP love technology and its challenges in keeping a simple solution.
> How much could they sell the information for?
Nothing. Zero. Zilch.
A a temporary restraining order would issue, preventing the transfer from taking place until they lost the litigation.
hawk
Apple can build an Operating System around such a juggernaut, the likes of which Comcast, Fox, Disney, Sony et. al. will beat a path to its franchise for access to their platform.
Steve gets to owns two layers with TiVO+Apple - the hardware + brokering its consumption (er - access).
Why did IBM but Lotus for THREE POINT FIVE BILLION DOLLARS?
Why did AOL buy Netscape for FOUR POINT TWO BILLION DOLLARS!?!?! (Add more exlamation points and questiosn markes as desired.)
Who KNOWS why these crazy companies do crap like this?
Insert witty sig here.
Maybe they plan on using the TiVo to record the programmes and then transfer them to one of the future iPods that can play back video.
Include some DRM so that it can only be done between the TiVo and iPod and you've got a marketable system.
Too bad its probably not true, given the history of the rumor above.
l , and obviously they've also done the music portion.
My 1st generation TiVO is already a box that sits in my living room, connected to my stereo, from which I could play songs/videos pulled off my hard drive. An I'm running Mac OS X. Considering I ended up buying a second device to do just the music piece of this http://www.slimdevices.com/ if Apple came out with a new TiVo that did this plus movies, I'd have to seriously consider upgrading my TiVO.
Its inevitable and obvious that Apple was going to eventually build a device to serve as the home entertainmentcomputer connection. For one thing, Steve Jobs said so about 8 years ago. They already have the codec to use for the video portion: H.264/AVC http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/index.htm
Whether or not they do an iVideos store is probably moot in the end. TiVo is a success just doing broadcast TV, the real growth would be becoming the defacto standard for digital cable and satellite. TiVO hasn't really persued this, but I expect Apple might, there's nothing sacred about the settop box business, and Apple has already show willingness to license iPod to other vendors like HP/Motorola.
Nor does iVideos require broadband. DirecTV is already marketing cheap movies to PVR owners like myself. Come to think of it, even without broadband you could easily sell a service that was satellite based and offered you a menu of 100 different movies a month. After all, over pay per view, I already have a menu of about 25 movies/month, and the only reason its only 25 is because they repeat the movie all day long. With a Tivo, they would only have to broadcast a movie once.
Hmmm... The TiVo already has a modem, so it could connect to a master server, order any movie from a long list of movies, then get the movie downloaded in one burst via the satellite. Since multiple people could mooch off the same movie download, it might be possible to have a list of 1000 movies available. If you picked an obscure movie, you might have to wait 24 hours for a download slot to open. It would be inconvenient, but if new releases were instantaneous (since you could start in the middle of any running download), its proabably acceptable.
So say $500 for a new box that plugs into my existing video crap, lets me download from a list of 1000 movies over my satellite dish, replaces my sqeezebox for music (one less thing), stores all my DVDs for easy playback (less crap in the living room). In a word, hmm...
TiVO couldn't do it alone, but Apple and TiVO could do it together.
Apple has been trying to make Mac OS X that hub by leveraging the success of the iPod/iTMS. They've even made it easy for Windows users to stream music from one system to another through the iTunes Sharing feature, which is completely cross-platform and so easy to use anyone can get it working in 5 minutes. But Mac OS X is tied to Apple's core products -- Apple computers. And therein lies the problem. Only geeks have computers in their family rooms connected to their TVs.
Tivo represents the only independent, open-platform consumer entertainment DVR vendor that's had any degree of longevity and success in the marketplace. And for that reason alone, it's an attractive target for Apple.
By making Tivo into the Apple-branded/powered equivalent of the Windows Media Center -- with Apple's cache and technical props associated with it -- Apple will have captured the cornerstone of "the digital lifestyle": the family room and TV. And this will succeed because Apple has already seeded the key "spokes" of the digital hub lifestyle, with iPod, iTunes, and iMovie. Other vendors don't have these assets, and the barriers to acquiring them are high.
To be sure, Jobs' ownership of a major content producer will be a boon should he decide to create an iLife Video Store (or whatever). But that's several steps away. The game is not video. The game is about capturing the high ground -- a ground that Bill Gates cannot buy his way into. (Microsoft has been trying to persuade infrastructure providers, such as cable TV companies, to run their boxes off Windows for years and, from what I can see, he's no further along today than he was five years ago.)
Microsoft, for its part, needs another market to dominate, soon. Its desktop dominance is under serious threat, which will only become more acute over time. Microsoft has to extend its monopoly, and has been trying to do so by leveraging Windows alone. But it has always relied upon, and will always rely upon, third party hardware producers to adopt its products. Unlike the genesis of Windows, though, Microsoft doesn't have a pre-made marketplace through which it can persuade manufacturers to sign on to their worldview. In other words, Microsoft has to produce a compelling product before it will have the market support which will equate into success for Windows Media Center (and subsequent iterations of this product).
Apple produces hardware and software. It doesn't need to rely on others to do its heavy-lifting for hardware, and clearly it is successful in this regard. Hardware will never be a core competency for Microsoft; it's always been so for Apple. This has had its downside, of course: their hardware costs more due to simple economies-of-scale (or lack thereof); cross-platform compatibility has sometimes been spotty; and it takes a lot more R&D dollars to execute both innovative hardware and software strategies. But if these fundamental problems can be overcome -- as Apple has largely done by adopting a Unix base for its core OS and by allying its hardware with broadly-used components -- then the chances for long-term success are very good indeed.
Jobs lost the operating system and hardware battle once. But that was never the war, and to believe it was is simply shortsighted. Furthermore, he's begun the process of renewing that very same battle. But the fundamental point is this: Gates and Jobs, and others like them, want nothing less than dominance of how consumers manage their content. Remember: the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. And that's why Apple should buy Tivo.
Spyware that no one knows about. If you ask anyone with a tivo if they know that tivo is sending back their remote control click stream, they wouldn't know it since its buried deep in their TOS that they are. Tivo is making 1984 a reality, having our tvs spy on us.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
I don't see how this could be a good thing. Personally I hate iTunes. Yay, I pay a dollar and get to listen to the music on maybe 3/4 computers, through the iTunes player. The same player that completely fucked up a majority of my MP3 tags. Maybe they will encode everything in QuickTime format so I have to install that piece of shit to watch video off my Tivo. Tivo screwed up with the Series 2 and I think that is why they are having so much trouble. With the series 1, you were able to do just about anything you wanted with the box. When the Series 2 was released, they locked this ability took the innovations of individuals and packaged them up in their own products. Now, that innovation has come to a halt and the Tivo SDK is a joke, who wants to play tic-tac-toe on tivo? Or skin the mp3 player a million times? They need to open up the Series 2 and let us do what we do best, tinker. I don't see Apple as a company who will open it up for us again... Didn't they bitch when Real did something to allow their format (which is as bad as apples) to play on ipods!
-Joe
Apple could help transform Tivo where it needs the most help. Hardware R&D. If there is a company that knowns how to making PowerPC hardware smaller and cheaper it's Apple.
Take a $499 Mac Mini form factor. Remove the CD-RW, lower the processor speed, and use less expensive single purpose GFX hardware. You'll likely get hardware that is actually sold at cost instead of below cost.
Add to the mix the fact that you're reseting the company, and can visit media partners you'd previously blown it with.
Add to the mix being able to add the Tivo Software (Linux on PowerPC) to Mac (BSD-Like on PowerPC).
Leverage Apples Media and Content distribution services.
It might just work.
TiVo has a market cap of $300 million, so buying TiVo outright would cost Apple a little more than that, along with a few million dollars in merger-related legal fees. Given that Apple seems to like adopting open-source projects for use as components of OS X, doesn't it seem like Apple would be better off to just spend a few million dollars picking up existing open-source PVR code, porting it to OS X, and adding a slick GUI? It would be a great way to push iMac Mini sales, and most buyers would likely pick up an Airport express card to go with it since few of us have CAT5 running to the entertainment center. Apple would probably be able to then offer the service for free, or at least at a very low cost, and integrate it into .Mac to encourage more people to pay for .Mac.
Doing any or all of the above would cost many times less than buying TiVo, and Apple would be able to spend all of the extra money on marketing.
Every TV show I watch gets filtered through BeyondTV on a HTPC.
I pay handsomly for "Extended Basic" cable just to watch a few television shows. My goal as a consumer is to find a LEGAL method of paying for television episodes on-demand without paying a flat rate for a whole bunch of junk I'll never watch. And, it must be reasonably less than the flat rate itself.
So, for instance, if I pay $50US/mo for "all-you-can-eat" access to TV programming, I'd expect my pay-per-episode costs for the shows I *actually* watch to come in at less than half of that.
As a comparison, I signed up for the Hollywood Video MVP plan, and I can watch as many movies as I can stomach for $10US/mo. I've been watching a *lot* of movies since then, and the relative quality of my entertainment has gone way up.
TV content providers are now competing with web content providers, and with flat-rate movie rental plans (NetFlix, Hollywood MVP, etc.). I can also catch up on shows that I never got a chance to watch, since they are now for rent on DVD.
So, content is working its way into other channels, and I think the "primetime" TV schedule will go the way of the high-end video card: for those who want to pay a lot more to be "early adopters" of content.
There are very few TV shows that one would consider "water cooler" shows, that get talked about in social settings and you'd feel left out not following in a timely manner. Once I can pay a fair price for "timely TV" that doesn't make me feel fleeced, I'm ditching Cable/Sattelite and strictly getting downloadable entertainment.
Firstly, most people wouldn't care at all. Secondly, TiVo has been doing it for years, and although the *potential* for them to do evil things exists, it just hasn't manifested itself.
Having your TiVo spy on you is kinda like having your mom spy on you. Sure, she could potentially embarrass you and do all kinds of other awful things, but you're pretty sure she won't, so you don't bother to hide things from her.
Besides, if the remote-monitoring bothers you *you can opt out!*
Yes, the time is almost here for user real interactive HDTV.
Spherical and/or cylindrical immersive video.
What is it?
Like a panorama of still pictures, but with video instead.
How is it created?
By using spherical or cylindrical cameras, outward facing or upward facing using mirrors to reflect light into the lens. Camera configurations can be quite large, using many cameras or very small like spy cameras mounted on bike helmet (I've done this and the footage is damn cool). Then, either in post or in real-time, the video frames are stitched together before it hits your television or, get ready: on a set top box!
My former company, which no longer exists, demonstrated this to Apple.
Imagine being able to dial up a menu watching a football game. At the bottom are several choices for to interact with:
1) Follow the ball
2) Follow the defense
3) Follow the offense
4) Watch the crowd (and cheerleaders)
You press key 1 and a coordination of immersive cameras, at the game send individual video streams to your set top box where they are stitched together. Using the arrows on your remote control you can then navigate how you choose to, that is YOU drive the video!
With tivo, Apple would be able to cache content so you could create your instant replays, zoom in, etc.
Way cool stuff.
ummm, I got nothin'
Ok, folks...are we proofreading anymore?
It is Apple, after all.
TiVo .... iTV ... what do I do with the O??? Maybe take a bite out of it and look like the apple logog?
Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
TIVO is dying...
The only reason Apple would want TiVO is to include it in an entertainment box that records tv, plays video games, DVDs, mp3s, etc. Maybe the mac mini is a step in this direction as well. It's kind of cheap, and barely good enough for these apps
What does TiVo do that Apple needs? Anyone who thinks TiVo's video capture capabilities, UI, or ability to download TV timetables automatically represent some kind of magic strategic advantage is smoking something. Apple has all of this now, what they don't have, TiVo doesn't have either.
The key component missing from TiVo's business model is something Apple has already done with music -- replaced broadcast with play on demand. (This is probably why iPods don't have FM tuners, even though they could be added for insignificant cost -- Steve Jobs/Apple is simply anti-broadcast as a concept. You decide what you download / rip and play, not some random DJ or corporation.)
Many of the companies Apple cut deals with to make iTunes Music Store possible are the same companies it would have to cut deals with to make Mac Mini Video Store possible.
TiVo's model in a nutshell: If it gets broadcast, we'll make it easier for you to watch, kind of. But because the legalities are iffy, we'll place some weird artificial restrictions on what you can do with the recorded material. We haven't changed the relationship between the consumer and the content producer -- advertising is still paying for the broadcast, but our profitability is in large part predicated on screwing the advertiser.
iTMS model translated to video: If you own it, we'll let you RIP it (or at minimum play it for you). If you don't own it, we'll let you download it for a reasonable fee (and maybe burn it). You pay for the content, not the advertiser, and not your cable company. You get exactly what you want, when you want it, not a rough approximation with ads you can kind of skip over.
i'd say there's a near 100% chance apple is going to try to do for video what iTunes Music Store did for audio-- its just a question of how and when. i imagine the tivo hardware as an add-on to the Mac mini. sort of turn your mac mini into the ultimate digital hub and media center. the price would have to come down some, but the solution fits with apple's past. the only thing missing is software. apple never realeases new hardware without mastering it via software. so this is only 50 percent of the rumor... organizing and interfaceing with the content and the rest of your media sources... that's the key.
Unless Cars is the biggest flop in the history of cinema, any studio would be foolish to not want to be associated with Pixar.
<Insert your own Michael Eisner joke here>
For those who don't get it, Eisner predicted that Finding Nemo would be a box-office bomb. But what do you expect from a guy who greenlighted Home on the Range?
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
So what's my point? My point is I hope that Apple can cut the same deals with cable/satellite companies that TiVo does now, and put Apple branded DVR's with built-in satellite/cable tuners on store shelves. You can already put a TV tuner card in a Linux box and slap on an IR blaster, albeit with quite a bit of hassle. But I want it to work smoothly and flawlessly.
Currently hooked on AMP
Sorry for the bad formatting. Let me try again. (yes, I should have used the !$#$$ preview button!)
Really, why would Apple want Tivo? Last I heard tivo was starting to fall on hard times. Far better off just making their own PVR software. You can already hack together a pretty nice PVR using a Motorola DCT-6200 and a Mac. see here : http://macteens.com/more.php?id=410_0_1_0_C
BZZZT! You can NOT put together a TiVo replacement that RELIABLY records what you want, because there are no other systems that offer BUILT-IN satellite/cable tuners on the market that I'm aware of. Thus, the "just like Tivo" DVR's all have the flaw that sometimes, their IR channel changer thingies fail to actually change the channel. So you miss shows you need to watch. Apple needs the integrated hardware, i.e., the business agreements that TiVo has established with cable and satellite providers to put their tuners into TiVo boxes. That is where TiVo's real value lies. At least right now, for me.
Currently hooked on AMP
Read this for instance:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148559,00.htm
Am I the ONLY FREAKING PERSON that actually does NOT believe it?! "Bush and Putin agree that ALL the other guys with nukes are the bad guys". What's neXt? Pre-emptive strike on Korea?!
Oh sorry, /. is US-centered... Sorry guys, you can go back now to your beer, burgers and your ice-hockey...
---
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/EE/images/uploads/b
America!
MacOS X is not just Unix based, it is an open source operating system that ships with two GUIs, the default GUI, Aqua which is proprietary and a secondary GUI, X11 which is open source.
http://developer.apple.com/darwin
Also, Microsoft does not support open source. They are very actively lobbying and agitating against open source. In fact, they steal from open source, ie. the TCP/IP stack stolen from BSD.
Does anyone really think that Apple would allow the TiVo hacking community to continue to flourish? And I doubt that they would permit "lifetime" service to continue to be available on hacked TiVos; you'ld have to download the inevitable Apple-ed-over TiVo software that would undoubtedly be hacker-unfriendly.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
The new name will of change from TiVo to iVu .
The iVu, the next, next generation to replace the iPod photo will play music videos, movies, and your favorite Christmas or Birthday party videos, copied directly over from your Sony HandyCam.
The click wheel / screen will be replaced with a full length color touch screen
(your choice - old style vertical, left hand wheel or right hand wheel).
When you touch the screen the click wheel and display pops up.
Select the video you want to see and watch your favorite movie.
You read it here on SlashDot First!
Take that Think Secret!
Apple iPods have decoder chips which can decode WMA. However, they refuse to enable this functionality to force users to buy songs from iTMS, locking out their competitors. No doubt they will try the same bs with their TiVO line if they buy it, selecting only video formats they like.
Vote for Pedro
Flamebait?
Not at all. My point is that Apple buying Tivo would be, as the poster to whom I was replying to pointed out, stupid. It would be really stupid. And it would be almost as stupid as the cases I cited.
Has anyone, anywhere (other than possibly Mark Andreesen & Co.) ever said that AOL got a good deal when they bought Netscape for $4.2 billion?
I'd love to hear from them.
Insert witty sig here.
Portable video devices have been a very limited market. I think one of the main reasons is that the current devices use the 'library' model that has been so successful for music. However, it is completely wrong for video. People listen to music albums over and over, but video is typically watched once or twice, and then that's it. Only gadget geeks want to bother ripping Spider-Man 2 to Divx so they can watch it on their Creative video player.
Apple could dramatically change things by coming out with the Tivo iPod, which automatically updates with all your Tivo'd content. Sitcoms, news, last night's SportsCenter- those are the things that people would actually watch on a portable video player. Plus, there would actually be an application to justify the 100+ GB iPods we will be seeing in a couple of years.
Apple would then leave everyone else in the dust (again.) But I guess it's a moot point if that rumor was bogus...
Hello, moderators! My post is factual and informative. I'm sorry I bashed your beloved Apple, but the fact is that it is not capable of handling output of MPEG-compressed full-HD resolution video streams.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I own a Replay TV and a TiVo. There are features I love about both user interfaces. But no matter on what machine I record I am always 'TiVo-ing'
They are The PVR Brand. I am surprised they have not been bought out earlier.
If Apple could modify the Mac Mini into a PVR (ATI 9200 All-In-Wonder TV) and to have a docking station for an iPod Video-to-Go using MPEG-4/AVC device they could rename it iPod Media Center or iPod Digital Lifestyle or iPod Home Entertainment. Couple that with an optional iPod RAID, a cheap 4 disk software RAID system with 4x250GB or 4x400GB drive. This could compete with Sony's Vaio Type X. The lack of PVR/DVR functionality is one gaping hole in Apple's digital hub strategy. I can imagine an iPod video device would be useful once people can record the shows they want using Quicktime 7 and watch it on their iPod video. The technology is all there its just up to Apple to tie it all together in an elegant easy to use solution. Which we all know Apple has a panache for.
Does that mean Apple will start selling the iTVO?
iPod proves that Apple can potentially become a consumer electronic powerhouse. iPod put Apple in the pocket of the mass. TiVo may be the way for Apple to get into everyone's living room.
Right now, living room are packed with VCR, DVD, TiVo, and etc. The next generation consoles: Xbox2, PS3 and Nintendo Evolution will all provide a integrated platform in the living room coupled with the HDTV. Who really needs a computer when you can do pretty much everything with TV and a console box?
When Autodesk, when?
Signed,
Architectural Community At Large
Who Wish They Could Scrap Windows
Guess what, Apple just proved that they have a perfect media center-like device that could replace the TiVo box: the Mini Mac! Don't you think that they've been working on the software and remaining hardware to replace TiVo already? Then, all they need is the clients! Sounds pefect to me.
--
Get a free Mini Mac:
http://www.FreeMiniMacs.com/?r=14209873
-- Get your free Mini Mac http://www.FreeMiniMacs.com/?r=14209873
I am not so sure that apple "came calling"- in fact, Apple was just about to close a deal to buy Be,Inc.- who had a pretty stellar, multimedia-centric little OS- and Jobs had a fit and offered NeXT instead.
Close, but not quite. Apple was looking for a next-generation OS after it realized that its "Copland" and "Gershwin" development was going nowhere (there was just too much baggage in the old MacOS to gracefully turn it into a modern OS). Jean-Louis Gassee was a former Apple exec (I think he was worldwide sales VP?), BeOS was the hip new thing at the time, and Gil Amelio (remember Gil?) was automatically turned his sights there.
The problem was that Jean-Louis priced himself out of the game. Everything was fine in principle, but J-L wanted (if I recall correctly) north of $100M more for Be than Apple was willing to pay. So Gil Amelio turned to choice number two, some other company run by a former Apple employee ...
NeXT did have a hit with WebObjects but its hardware and software businesses were going nowhere, and WO was not nearly enough to keep the whole company afloat. Steve Jobs had investors in NeXT (like Ross Perot) who were very eager to extricate themselves through a buyout, so it made a lot of sense to him. As an added bonus, Jobs even offered to come back on board Apple as a consultant for a while. "Very nice of him," Amelio must have thought.
Six months later, Jobs had engineered the board's ousting of Amelio, took the interim CEO (or "iCEO" as he called it) job, and the rest is history...
"95% of all Slashdot
Apple comes out with the Mac mini, and people have the idea of using it as a tv media center, it's too convienent. Apple will release Tiger which has H.264 encoding technologies built into the system, perfect for HD. And now Apple interested in buying TiVo?